Love and Ambition

I’m a psychotherapist working with couples, especially men who get left by their wives. I’ve studied your material for over a year now and the hypergamy stuff is dead on. I just wanted to share and maybe talk with you about the red pill rage that results — women love opportunistically yes, but many men who comment on your material are missing a component I believe. And it’s not one I’ve heard you allude to much either.. When a man isn’t pursuing his dreams and highest self, the woman oftentimes interprets that as a lack of love for her, as though continuing to stay competitive and strong in the world shows her that he is invested in the relationship. When men get lazy women actually feel discarded. The pain and the love is real – it isn’t so simple as jaded men think.. that women are blood thirsty gold digging monsters. The female design feels unloved and devalued when her man is not on fire for his own life..

I had this sent to me recently. It’s actually a pretty standard trope for Trad-Con women who want to justify their leaving a husband or having left an old lover/baby-daddy. They like to pretend they’re ‘red pill’ and so the only men who might qualify for their expired sexual market value will be Red Pill men who meet their new qualifications. One thing I’m seeing more and more of in this sub-section of the manosphere (really femosphere) is aged-out divorcé women who want to rebrand the ‘red pill’ to justify their unmarried, unpaired, state in the new sexual marketplace. As you might imagine, their solipsism gets combined with what they convert into a convenient rationale about what Red Pill men ought to be like. The lack of ‘real men’, real ‘red pill’ men is ostensibly why they’re still single – no man is actually ‘red pill’ enough to satisfy their hamstering and thus, it’s not they who have the problem, but rather the men who lack the balls to live up to those expectations.

If this sounds familiar – like maybe a feminist spouted off a version of it – you’re right. I wrote about this rationalization back in The Bitter Taste of the Red Pill:

Game-aware women – the ones who have been forcibly exhausted of all pretense of maintaing the illusion that Game is a lie – feel as though it’s owed to them, in their concession of Game’s reality, that Men should use Game to women’s benefit. Even to the last effort women still cling to the tools of a feminized acculturation;

“Yeah, OK, you got us, Game is really what women want, Hypergamy is the law of womankind, but now it’s your responsibility that you use it for the better benefit of society by molding a new breed of improved Betas to accommodate fem-centric monogamy. You owe us our security for having admitted to the grand illusion that’s kept you in thrall for so long.”

It’s an indictment of Game-aware women, and sympathizing men, that they should feel a need to delineate some aspects of Game into good camps (pro woman, pro feminized monogamy) and bad camps (manipulative, polygynous, male-centered). Even in the admission of the truth that Game has enlightened Men of, the feminine imperative still seeks to categorize the application of Game to its own end. That Men might have some means of access to their own sexual strategy is too terrible a Threat; Game must be colored good or bad as it concerns the imperatives of women and a fem-centric societal norm.

As the default, socially correct and virtuous concern, women have an easier time of this. As Game becomes increasingly more difficult to deny or misdirect for the feminine, the natural next step in accepting it becomes qualifying its acceptable uses. While hypergamy is an ugly truth, the characterization of it becomes “just how women are” – an unfortunate legacy of their evolution. However for Men, the characterizations of the harsher aspects of Game in its rawest form (contingencies for hypergamy) are dubbed “the dark arts”.

Red Pill Women – A Convenient Rationale

I wrote this back in 2012. Some of my earliest posts were about predicting exactly this phenomenon in the future. The more Red Pill aware a woman is – or I should say, the more she consciously acknowledges it – the greater the need will be to find fault in men for not living up to what they redefine as ‘red pill’ canon. The more widespread Red Pill awareness of intersexual dynamics becomes, and the more accepted it is, the more it will serve as an alibi for women trying to rebuild a life they destroyed themselves. It becomes a Red Pill man’s ‘duty’ to forgive their indiscretions and help them recover too.

Over the years Dalrock has gone into how women detonate their marriages as a result of divorce porn fantasies. I’m not sure he really dissects the aftermath of their divorces. And this is only one way in which women may find themselves single around middle age. In Preventive Medicine I detail how women go through at least to periods of crisis level Hypergamous doubt during a marriage. Women’s prerequisites for attraction (not arousal) shifts radically once she reaches the Epiphany Phase (29-31). She becomes far more compromising in terms of physicality in exchange for aspects of a man she finds desirable for long-term prospects of security. Whereas she may have only dated banged guys 1-2 inches taller than herself in her Party Years, now she’s willing to entertain the idea of banging dating a guy slightly shorter than herself so long as he has a capacity for success and provisioning for her.

This is an interesting phase to pick apart because it’s likely the first time in a woman’s life that she’s considering a relationship with a guy based on transactional sex as opposed to the prime directive of validational sex she’s been pursuing for most of her Party Years (18-26). For the first time her long-term attraction is based on different aspects of a man’s Burden of Performance.

During the Epiphany Phase a woman plays a complex game of internalized mental gymnastics. Her hindbrain understands that her sexual market value has been decaying for at least a couple of years prior to this conscious recognition of it. The enjoyment of the Party Years has to be weighed against the fact that she’s progressively losing the attention of the men she would like to have ‘enthusiastic’ validational sex with, and the necessity of a long-term security with a long-term partner. Thus, the rationalization engine kicks into overdrive. She must convince herself that the less exciting (arousing) but better provisioning guy who’s happy to have her at 30 represents the type of guy she ‘should‘ have been with all along.

This is a self-bullshitting contrivance of course, but in her mind the guy who she’s marrying or pairing long term with must be an example of a ‘good prospect’. This is when she does the self-conditioning of turning her necessity into a virtue. She was “so crazy in college, but now she’s matured and not like that anymore.” Or she’s “Getting right with God” or she’s “Learned her lesson in dating banging those Bad Boys” who’ve characterized her intimate life up until this point.

Those are the easy self-contrivances; what’s more difficult is convincing her hindbrain (that desperately wants the exciting validational sex with the Bad Boy) that the unexciting ‘Good Guy’ is really what’s best for her. This is where women like to rearrange what’s really important to them in a man.

This is the internal conflict that takes place in the Epiphany Phase, but what happens to the woman who never gets to consolidate on the ‘Good Guy’? For a variety of reasons (mostly overvalued evaluation of their SMV) more and more women find themselves ‘never marrieds’ and/or they follow the timeline in Preventive Medicine and find themselves divorced of their own doing. In either case, women still work through a similar series of self-rationalizations with respect to what they’re looking for, and what they feel they are entitled to, in a man around 38 to 45, sometimes as late as 50.

And this is where the Red Pill feeds that female entitlement schema. The logic goes like this:

If I’m a Red Pill woman and I agree with all of these Red Pill men who, despite all my misgivings, align with my (self-defined and sanitized) definition of what it means to be “red pill”, then these men owe it to me to unplug from their Blue Pill delusions and see me for the jewel in the rough that I really am.

I think the time a woman is most likely to discover she’s a “Red Pill Woman” is conveniently at the point in her life when she’s at her most necessitous. You will almost never find a girl of 22 who’d want to identify as a Trad-Con “Red Pill” woman – the incentives to do so simply don’t exist at this age. The fact that it is predominantly Traditional Conservative women who are either just pre-Wall or post-Wall, single-mothers, never married spinsters, divorcés or married-to-lesser-Betas who wish to redefine ‘Red Pill’ to use as a litmus test for the type of men they believe they’re entitled to is no coincidence.

Message to the ladies: Men don’t owe you shit. If you happen upon a man who shares your entitlement belief-set, a man willing to forgive your past indiscretions and marry you despite a ruthless marriage/divorce industrial complex arrayed against him, then thank whatever God you pray to and fuck that guy’s brains out to keep him happy, but don’t pretend it’s because either you or he is “Red Pill”. The fact that he would entertain the idea of a relationship with you disqualifies him from being “Red Pill”.

If you find yourself single, never-married at 38 and it “just never worked out for you” it’s time you look past your solipsism and find some real introspect. The problem begins and ends with you.

Love and Opportunism

Now, all that said, the ‘psychotherapist‘ who sent me this does have some legitimate points.

When a man isn’t pursuing his dreams and highest self, the woman oftentimes interprets that as a lack of love for her, as though continuing to stay competitive and strong in the world shows her that he is invested in the relationship.

First of all this is flat out false; I’ve written several posts that illustrate exactly this perspective. From Setting the Rules:

Once a woman understands the gravity and legitimacy of your purpose / passion, only then can she come to appreciate the significance of you foregoing or postponing the dictates of that purpose for her. She will never feel more important to you than when you (occasionally) lift her above that legitimate, verified purpose.

Women will never appreciate a relationship that is a Man’s greatest ambition.

That’s an old (obscure?) post I wrote some time ago, but the basic principle is that a man must be fearless in his pursuit of his passions both before and after he’s entered into some kind of committed exclusivity. In Acing the Test I point out that women tend to shit test for different things while single and when in an LTR. In a long term relationship these test are characterized by the need to quell the Hypergamous doubt that she paired with a guy who is, or has the potential for competency. In other words her Hypergamous hindbrain wants to know it made its best ‘bet’ on you.

And while that’s all fine and well, her hindbrain’s insecurity wars with the need for you to retain your ambition and your being emotionally available for her. When these two aspects come into conflict it is up to a man to retain the world, the Frame, he’s established in which she feels comfortable and yet uncomfortable enough to know he’s competent to be powerful in directing his own course in life.

When men get lazy women actually feel discarded. The pain and the love is real – it isn’t so simple as jaded men think.. that women are blood thirsty gold digging monsters. The female design feels unloved and devalued when her man is not on fire for his own life..

Again, this is a perfect illustration of the differences in the concepts men and women each independently hold when it comes to love. Men love Idealistically, women love Opportunistically and this quote spells this out in no uncertain terms – in fact it’s so ironic I’m not sure the woman relating this to me even realizes what she’s doing. Women intimately associate a man’s ambitiousness, his drive for mastery and power, his want for dominance, with her Opportunistic concept of love. She’s correct here, when men get lazy women feel discarded. However, this is because a man contenting himself with how things are and dropping all ambition confirms what her Hypergamous nature fears most – he’s really incompetent.

This is especially salient when a man trades his ambitions (assuming he had them) for a relationship with her. This reverses the Burden of Performance to her and as a result she feels unloved because her concept of love is founded on his capacity for competence. She feels unloved because opportunism defines her concept of love; and he only confirms his worthlessness by abdicating his Burden of Performance.

From Love Story:

Men are expected to perform. To be successful, to get the girl, to live a good life, men must do. Whether it’s riding wheelies down the street on your bicycle to get that cute girl’s attention or to get a doctorate degree to ensure your personal success and your future family’s, Men must perform. Women’s arousal, attraction, desire and love are rooted in that conditional performance. The degree to which that performance meets or exceeds expectations is certainly subjective, and the ease with which you can perform is also an issue, but perform you must.

A lot of this relates to the standard Mental Point of Origin conversation.

Blue Pill men are conditioned to think two things:

III. You shall make your mission, not your woman, your priority

Forget all those romantic cliches of the leading man proclaiming his undying love for the woman who completes him. Despite whatever protestations to the contrary, women do not want to be “The One” or the center of a man’s existence. They in fact want to subordinate themselves to a worthy man’s life purpose, to help him achieve that purpose with their feminine support, and to follow the path he lays out. You must respect a woman’s integrity and not lie to her that she is “your everything”. She is not your everything, and if she is, she will soon not be anymore.

493 comments

  1. “Red Pilled Women”

    Been seeing a lot of these “Red Pilled” women on Twitter, not impressed. As the marriage market contracts we see the smarter more pragmatic women see the writing on the wall, and begin to shift their strategies towards hooking a fish/man.

    Make to mistake about it, there are no true red pilled women, it’s impossible. Red Pill requires adhering to certain principles, women by natural design cannot hold to principle they must be pragmatic in order to ensure survival, end of story. The more interesting phenomenon is the fact they are virtue signaling about red pill at all, it means the shortage of worthy men is being felt, however the conditions(law, society) remain the same so it’s still a bad idea to get married. We may be seeing the start of the popping of the pussy bubble as it relates to marriage and commitment begin it’s decline down, took long enough.

  2. Great post Rollo. This is “red pill woman” is just a female sexual strategie as outlined by Black Pill Logic.

    As someone who has been red pill for only a 5 months and having experienced in my reflection being Alpha windowed atleast twice. I can say the statements that women make “I don’t usually date guys like you” or “your not like other guys” is a clear warning for you to the LTR/STR leave now. My beta reasoning as has always confused me until I swolled the pill can’t this woman see I’m 6.0 foot , 225 and jacked, I’m an engineer for crying out as I make her my mental point of origin without even realizing it.

    Gentlemen as you swollow TRP your biggest improvement will not be more pussy or female attention but becomeing your own Jordan Peterson. Living for yourself brings happiness.

  3. “The female design feels unloved and devalued when her man is not on fire for his own life..” –

    ya – The withdrawal of the host’s vigor is detrimental, even fatal to the parasite. MGTOW.

  4. We often have a go at the Feminine Imperative here, and for good reasons. But this is an excellent reminder that we also have a shitload of responsiblity, in pariicular to understand and follow our mission, there is no alternative ! Get lazy, complacent and pay the price, and rightly so.

    The leading writers in the manosphere come from varied viewpoints but putting your msssion as your first priority is something they all spell out in unison.

    I thought David Deida articulates this need most precisely in that the fight from freedom and escape, through a commitment to a mans personal mission is the essence of the masculine challenge. While love and bonding is the essence of the feminine spirit. She wants to bond and feel loved (solipstically) through her man who knows his mission and is willing to go through lifes obstacles to achieve his goals (including her ongoing shit tests ) and take her on that journey she craves.

  5. “She wants to bond and feel loved (solipstically) through her man who knows his mission and is willing to go through lifes obstacles to achieve his goals (including her ongoing shit tests ) and take her on that journey she craves.”

    I get that but every time I think of it, or see it stated as you did here, there is a clear sense of resentment swelling up within me. Who gives a fuck about what she craves; why should I give a toss? After all, she will never reciprocate.

    The solipsistic nature of females kinda disqualifies them in my eyes from the get go. Yeah, I’m going on a journey that she craves and can take here, but why should I? Ultimately, by the very design of hers, she will end up being an albatross around my neck anyway. She will only slow and weigh me down. I certainly don’t need a passenger.

    A good friend of mine called me yesterday, coming back from seeing his parents. Both my pal and his dad are into cycling. So they went on a cycling trip; except his mum insisted on coming along. How do you think that went? “Guys, slow down”. “This is too steep for me”. “I need a drink”. “It’s too hot!”. He rang me specifically to vent about how his mum ruined his and his dad’s trip.

    Some women are different, of course. But the vast majority of women I have met follow exactly that pattern of behaviour. I get the game, and I think it is an essential part of every man’s life awareness and life skill. Game also helps you learn about oneself, it helps to navigate social situations, adds to confidence and generally is a critical part of social success.

    But I can’t help but feel that, with few exceptions, it is wasted on women.

  6. ^^ in the romantic sense, I mean. Game can of course be very useful for other social scenarios. But here I specifically referred to having to taking her on that journey.

  7. Red pill women and a bit of MGTOW

    This is one of the few times I’ve seen the subject of women at/over 50 even referenced.

    I think they are a different category really. Of course Hypergamy still exists but by this age for the main part they are absolutely shit out of options.

    I’ve thought of it as the second wall.

    I’m glad to see in the latest Red Man podcast that the distinction was made between higher and lower ‘functioning’ MGTOW. I still don’t strictly agree but I won’t labour it.

    I think the older women thing is where some of the older MGTOW men get the idea that by them withdrawing from that market the women will suffer. In this demographic it’s true.

    If like me you sometimes hangout in events where there are a lot of over 50 singles of both sexes then you can see it clearly. The women have literally nothing that you would want, the men on the other hand have conversation, experiences, wit, and other stuff that’s engaging.

    In these large groups the women circle the men and make polite small talk but the men shut them down / leave the woman to make all the conversational effort (which dries up fast as they have nothing to talk about).

    If you’re a 50+ man that’s been wiped out by your ex, the last decade of your marriage has been sexless anyway. All women at this age represent is a sexless existence.

    In this category ALL of the women are available to MOST of the men that have their shit together and don’t have two chins.

    But most of the men couldn’t get wood for most of the women so what’s the point?

    In general women will re align their ‘opinions’ to whatever is necessary to snag the Highest SMV man they can get. That could be Red Pill or the Cauliflower growers association, it doesn’t matter.

    It just so happens that the Red Pill contains more of the sort of men that would be attractive to women than the Cauliflower growers association.

    Some women are beginning to realise this.

    I hate to be blasphemous but Roosh did a recent podcast about more women identifying as conservative, and he just said that they weren’t conservative, they had no ‘opinion’ of their own, that’s just where the men were so that’s where they went.

    Recently I went out to a kicking pub with my divorced male friend who at over 50 is ripped and we always hit on / get hit on by women (and on two occasions we’ve been hit on by the female half of couple with a cuck).

    This time his 20 year old daughter and her friend wanted to come. When it came to it 4 of them turned up all about 20 and between HB 6-8 dressed for war.

    I had thought it would be a good night but it was boring as hell. All they had was looks, no conversation.

    They were empty vessels. Looking through the red pill lens It was obvious:

    The goal is the highest SMV man they can get and they’ll take whatever path is necessary to get one. There was no manufacturer programming at all, that would be imprinted by the best man they could find.

    Of course with Hypergamy the man is infinitely variable and so the path required to snag him varies infinitely as well. It’s no surprise flap around like flags in the wind. That’s why you have to watch what they do and ignore what they say.

    It’s not much of a stretch to think that when they find their constant rudderless re alignment in search of a male unicorn doesn’t work, they blame externally. It’s what they do anyway at all ages.

  8. @ Handmade

    My experience has been that if I put my mission first the women in my life strongly supported me, wanted me to win (probably to make themselves feel good as much as supporting me) but nevertheless they were loyal and complemented my journey. The ONE time where i stopped putting my journey first and placed her on the pedestal (ie my one marriage) was when it all flipped massivelly backwards. Learnt my lesson the hardway and now back on the saddle again, putting my journey first and enjoying the support of a woman whos also enjoying the ride.

    But, selecting a compatable woman is real important, one one hand they are all the same, but in different shades and colour combinations. Pick the colour shade that works for you.

  9. Rollo, here’s a statement considering the state of most women over a certain age in America.

    Women suffer terribly when they have to face the reality of swallowing their Red Pill. If you think taking the Red Pill was hard on men, when women wake up to the reality that they have to face as a result of their choices and emotions, they shatter.

  10. This is exactly why you should never allow your woman to let herself go physically.

    If her natural condition of love is based on your performance, then it only stands to reason that her looking hot and sexy by hitting the gym must be a condition for you.

    If she piles on the pounds, then its your duty to either tell her to fix up or kick her out.

  11. With proper training, women can manage their own Hypergamy, to some extent. Part of the Red Pill for women is that they failed to marry young because of a lack of proper training. Part of the Red Pill for women is that if they wait to get pregnant when they are in their 30s, they have a harder time going to term and delivering healthy babies, if they can even manage to get pregnant at all. Women’s bodies are designed to be pregnant; women who’ve had a lot of kids tend to keep their youth better.

    Young men aren’t trained about women in many cases because their fathers weren’t trained or because fathers weren’t around to train them.

  12. Psychotherapist: “I do not feel loved when you don’t reach my goals.”

    An excellent essay Rollo.

    I married one of those who women who decided to “Get right with God” and she is still trying to get right with God as she pulls the pin on that grenade. She turns 50 in a few days and doesn’t seem to realize how fucked she has made herself. Talk about not reaching you goals!

  13. I’m trying to give some of you a window into the past so that you can see other possibilities from history…

    I can remember that girls used to attempt to bring more than looks when they were interested in a guy…they’d joke and be good conversationalists and be knowledgeable about current events…but guys had higher status relative to girls back then and betas were attractive and betas had more alpha characteristics, like Jim Anderson in “Father Knows Best.” Girls would work their butts off to land a man–most of which were betas. In the current environment, men are very thirsty and don’t demand much of women. A man who demands more will be seen as not thirsty and having higher value.

  14. There are no red pilled women. Because

    1) Women don’t really have such a strong frame. They can be easily swayed by herd mentality and market forces.

    2) Red Pill Woman is basically a good girl NAWALT tactic. One article from the first book that made me wake up was the chapter on good girls. I took a good look at all the girls and their histories around me, and oh yeah, you will not believe what they can do in the right environment.

    If anything one always has to be very careful about the people trying to be too nice, the openly hostile ones are in fact the most honest.

    Women can hide their behaviour in the moment. But they’re not nearly as good as hiding this at macroscopic, long term scales.

  15. Verbal pimp slap to hypergamy… that’s why I read TRM. The burden of performance discussion was a slap to me. This is aspect of RP I wrestle with all the time. Some stuff I just don’t care about or have no mission for it. With the RP lens I know now the woman was judging me on it, but honestly I could care less. The lack of unconditional love over failing to meet her estimate of my burden of performance is a bit savage to bear, but I know now to just not let it bother me anymore. I have my own goals and mission in life: she will either come with me or not.

  16. The world is not enough for her, but it’s the man’s job to conquer it and share it with her – – no real effort on her part, of course. But she “supported him”… I finally stopped playing the rigged game.

  17. @ pinelero

    From my observations and experience I would suggest the burden of performance judgement is not about your burdent of performance towards HER but rather ensuring there is a burden of performance towards YOU. Meaning that you dont slacken off in your own persuit of your personal mission and goals, rather than pleasing her.

    If you are focused on your goals and take her on that journey she will support you, if you slacken off and get lazy in achieving your goals she will quickly let you know about it.

    Personally I find it an excellent sense check of how Im performing in my personal mission.

  18. @ Rudd – I hear you mate, I know what you are saying. But at the very foundation of my reasoning is the question – if my life’s mission is my number one concern, and if I place the woman in my life (LTR, marriage) below it, then what is her place in my life, really? What purpose does she play in my life?

    Sex? Please, I can get it anyway; either by playing or by paying. What’s more, it is infinitely more varied than in a monogamous relationship.

    Admiration? It is only superficial, circumstantial and performance-dependent. This very essay describes the mechanism.

    Appreciation? As above, except the better I become the more she takes for granted. She will never appreciate me, not really.

    Housework? Maybe. I have to say, though, that I am more than capable of either doing it myself (tidying after one person is easy) or I can pay for it also.

    I cannot really wring it out of anyone here on this site – what is a concrete benefit of actually keeping a company of a female long-term? Please explain to me in layman terms how it makes my life better when, rationally, all of the information contained on this site points me to an opposite conclusion. So far I have read almost the totality of Rollo’s compiled essays and it makes absolutely perfect sense. It ties in with my empirical findings in life. There are studies which further cement some of the observations made here.

    But all of this information makes it abundantly clear that women are generally a net cost with no practical benefit. In romantic terms, that is. ONS/STR are the way to go, it seems. Although that is becoming riskier by the day too. Otherwise women seem to be little more than parasites which need men for sustenance and offer no practical, tangible reward for it; unless we’re talking kids. If kids are out of the picture – is there any redeeming quality to an LTR/marriage?

    I have read many opinions about how it is important to have a life partner to contend with (Jordan Peterson-esque view) – but why? I don’t get it. People talk about support that man gets from their woman – but it is really only conditional, it seems. If not in actions (i.e. she leaves you) then definitely in her emotional little bubble where her hypergamous doubt will drive her to begrudge you the moment you slide a bit. This sounds like life-long torture.

    All of the information here has been helpful in my developing and honing the game. I mentioned it before, I have been quite successful in my professional and social life and some parts of the game I have always had, some info here has cemented that game; some bits have been a revelation and helped me tremendously. But the question remains the same – why waste your game on someone who you, ultimately, can never trust? Not to love you, really; not to appreciate you, really; not to admire and cherish you, really. Those are only a reflection of your current level of performance.

    I know I am labouring the point but my brain is experiencing a dissonance when I read all this info from a married man and I read opinions sternly critical of MGTOW here. It’s like everything you guys say points to a bloody obvious conclusion, but then you go “no, it’s not like that; despite it all women complete you”. How??

  19. this is actually sad to read. it shows what I have been thinking, is the truth about women. They don’t really care who YOU are, they care WHAT you are.

  20. “When a man isn’t pursuing his dreams and highest self, the woman oftentimes interprets that as a lack of love for her”

    I have a question, does this largely apply to the realm of the FINANCIAL aspect? AKA career advancement or can hobbies and interests mold this “higher self”? I do not think that I will ever be a CEO or work myself so hard that I feel stressed on a daily basis. I have a good job and have gotten steady raises/promotions but the field is generally limited in “fast track” advancement and tends to be slower in advancing your career. What it lacks in a “high powered” title it more than makes up for in benefits, 401K, pension, and incredible work/life balance, allowing me to focus on gym, writing, and making music. Interested to get your thoughts.

  21. @Palmasailor

    Nice post of the 40-50s crowd. We see the world through the same lens on this front.
    I hang out at pof and sometimes get freebies dropped into my lap with minimal effort. But the entitlement and list of demands I see from that age-group just boggles my mind! Really woman? You should just be banging my up front and hope I can tolerate you for more than 2 months.

    This time his 20 year old daughter and her friend wanted to come. When it came to it 4 of them turned up all about 20 and between HB 6-8 dressed for war.
    I had thought it would be a good night but it was boring as hell. All they had was looks, no conversation.

    Hehe, I would have hit on her friends… At that age don’t expect much convo. They just don’t have the capacity for it and perhaps never will. Just use them as target practice

  22. @Handemade

    Sex? …
    Admiration? …
    Appreciation? …
    Housework?…

    I struggled with the same thoughts for 28 years. At first is was sex and companionship. Then kids and the sex and companionship decreased. Then is was just the fear of change.

    My father went thru the same thing with my mother and finally dumped her when I was 18ish. perhaps not so oddly I followed the same pattern but instead of chasing 45yos as he did I spent a little money on 19yos.

  23. @ Handmade

    Yep, its a legitimate question, what is the benefit of a woman in an LTR, i often have similar questions.

    Have you read The Way of The Superor Man by David Deida ? His insights provide clues to your questions, or at least did for me about how to get the most out of feminine and masculine energy and the gifts we offer in a relationship context.

  24. For a man to single mindedly focus on financials as their mission or burden misses the point completely about developing mastery, fully, as a.man.

    Women can and do love. Women in the majority cannot love the way a ( blue pilled ) man usually expects. This concept that Rollo has laid out for years appear to miss most men that read it.
    A woman cannot be your mother. You had a mom. She’s likely not going to live you like a woman that’s birthed you.

  25. @palmasailor

    “I had thought it would be a good night but it was boring as hell. All they had was looks, no conversation.

    @theasdgamer

    I can remember that girls used to attempt to bring more than looks when they were interested in a guy…they’d joke and be good conversationalists

    Women as conversationalists??? Sounds pretty bluepill if you ask me.

    That statement brings me back to those distant azuretablet days, when I may have felt the same way.

    My field experience since, tells me that once attempting conversation, which is defined by a mutual contribution to advancing thought provoking ideas, things(pussy) dry up.

    I can see it in a woman’s face once she is presented with the reason, complexity and verbosity necessary for conversation.

    A woman expects a man to make light of everything. They want their serious concerns to be flipped with ease by wit and wisdom to diffuse the seriousness.

    To engage point by point sounds like an argument to a woman. Agree and amplify always. Sometimes it is tricky to find agreement or amplification, but this is a sign you are losing your edge and slipping into friendship mode and nullifying game.

    It is possible to converse seriously with a woman and still game. But there are limits. At the very least diffusing the seriousness must come at roughly every other response/exchange instead of constant bantering which gets stale. Pacing or calibration of the conversation must be in the man’s control to contain drift from game. A woman must see the seriousness of a man in small doses instead of representing oneself as taking the conversation so serious as to respond to every point in straight forward manner. KEEP IT LIGHT!! Playful is the name of the GAME!

    Making conversation requires too much talk. Talk requires too much mental processing, desiccating her genitalia. Laughing and play are the lubricant.

  26. “A woman cannot be your mother. You had a mom. She’s likely not going to live you like a woman that’s birthed you.”

    I’ve actually seen a few situations where men did (essentially) marry their moms. Result is never good.

    “A woman expects a man to make light of everything. They want their serious concerns to be flipped with ease by wit and wisdom to diffuse the seriousness.”

    That’s so weird. Because men really like dour women.

  27. Value differential estimate for women before 40: “I got THIS man!”

    after 50 (or before that, or after depending on some variables): “I got A man!”

    That pretty much summarizes things.

  28. This is another great topic for discussion, and thank you to every commenter upping the rpm’s in my brain this morning.

    The ” women aren’t for conversation ” meme… Where are most of men that find the average woman incapable of decent conversation finding these brain dead-ish chicks? Under what circumstances?

    My experiences are vastly different and I cannot for the life of me ( and 5 years reading comment at trm) understand why this is.

    Is it perception?

    Is it men expecting women to communicate like their buddies do?

    Is it a narrow field of subject matter/understanding?

  29. @disgruntled earthling

    ” “I had thought it would be a good night but it was boring as hell. All they had was looks, no conversation.

    Hehe, I would have hit on her friends… At that age don’t expect much convo. They just don’t have the capacity for it and perhaps never will. Just use them as target practice” ”

    You noticed the same quote from palmasailor.

    This is exactly where young chicks feel the distance and lack of common ground with an older man. Your life experience will constantly belittle her lack of. A man must contain the desire to one up or reveal his grand command of life. Mastery is displayed through action not conversation.

    I find shit to fix around her abode. But just a little. I don’t fix all her problems. There are other plates with a leak under the sink, too.

    Before long I’m fixing the leak in her jeans. And then I split for a week or two on my own agenda.

    It’s funny, that upon return she expects I’ve been on vacation living it up and fucking more ONS.

    She doesn’t want to hear that I’ve been working and building my life. She has confidence that is exactly what I am doing but she also knows my nature. So her hindbrain is satisfied that I’ve been also out getting some…

  30. Women as conversationalists??? Sounds pretty bluepill if you ask me.

    Maybe Gatorade will take care of that for ya. If women want my attention, I make them earn it. That includes being interesting to talk to.

    My field experience since, tells me that once attempting conversation, which is defined by a mutual contribution to advancing thought provoking ideas, things(pussy) dry up.

    Your idea of convo sounds gay.

    KEEP IT LIGHT!! Playful is the name of the GAME!

    Playfulness is good, but too much is try hard. Make the girl work to keep your attention. I bail on boring pussy, no matter her looks. Girls like liz get some attention (she’s a good example to other girls of how they ought to behave around men), but most girls are dull. A girl needs to ask me open-ended questions and be interested in hearing my answer.

    Of course, if you just want a fuck…because you are so damn thirsty…

    smh

  31. @Blaximus

    “”The ” women aren’t for conversation ” meme… Where are most of men that find the average woman incapable of decent conversation finding these brain dead-ish chicks? Under what circumstances?

    and…

    “Is it men expecting women to communicate like their buddies do?”

    Kind of opposing statements.

    The kind of conversation made with a woman must be “game-ish” or that convo is simply talking with a buddy.

    Women are actually great at conversation when they are being gamed and the man is in control. The content of their convo is not as important as maintaining elevation and dampness. This is in the man’s control as long as one does not fall into …”conversation”

    Women appear brain dead only if they are not into you. If you are still attempting convo, you may be only digging your own grave.

    That doesn’t mean women are not capable of conversation and that they are brain dead.

    It does mean that a man looking for that kind of convo in a woman is severely in drought territory.

  32. Its interesting readin all the responses and Rollos essays but I reckon it all comes down to following or being aware of the 16 Commandments of Poon. If you follow these principles and act them out authentically reflecting your own personality and style you will not go wrong.

    Its pretty much all you need to remember once you have digested all the Rollo and Manosphere wisdom.

    https://heartiste.wordpress.com/the-sixteen-commandments-of-poon/

  33. @anon

    I’ve actually seen a few situations where men did (essentially) marry their moms. Result is never good.

    Mom was extroverted and a brilliant hostess and a scintillating conversationalist and was loved by all who knew her. A girly girl, but not particularly pretty, although, when I was a boy, I thought that she was beautiful. (I took after her when it came to looks, which is better on me than on her.) She did have green eyes. Mom was easy prey for flatterers, which included my brother. Explains why he was her fav.

    Mrs. Gamer is introverted and doesn’t like loud music or people “letting go” and is very judgmental, although she hides it. She’s Ok at dinner parties, but not the kind of social environments that I really like. Mrs. Gamer is also generally well-liked, like Mom. Mrs. Gamer is suspicious of flatterers. Mrs. Gamer can chat a lot about her work or friends, but doesn’t like to hear about my experiences or friends. Mrs. Gamer is a practical girl, and was strikingly lovely in her youth.

    So, Mom and Mrs. Gamer have significant differences. They have both reminded me about stuff (autism thing).

  34. “You will almost never find a girl of 22 who’d want to identify as a Trad-Con “Red Pill” woman – the incentives to do so simply don’t exist at this age. ”

    One thing about religion ive always struggled with was Morality and Female respect while seening behavior that was immoral but timed out in being spoken about.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkqiWhAxy_Y
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUxrJk-X1oQ

    “This is especially salient when a man trades his ambitions (assuming he had them) for a relationship with her. This reverses the Burden of Performance to her and as a result she feels unloved because her concept of love is founded on his capacity for competence. She feels unloved because opportunism defines her concept of love; and he only confirms his worthlessness by abdicating his Burden of Performance.”

    Good lord this is something that i have always noticed about myself my performance is directly connected to my success. Internal Performance red pill wise is the best thing someone can do for oneself. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYjkVtkcaj8 Otherwise we hope in something that removes what we control in a radical way. I for one am learning how in order to cope with loss i missplace it outside myself. I remove the bad that also takes away the good. Performance is incredible. Not abditacing it is respecting it to never go away.

  35. @theasdgamer

    “”Women as conversationalists???…
    “Maybe Gatorade will take care of that for ya. If women want my attention, I make them earn it. That includes being interesting to talk to.”

    My field experience since, tells me that once attempting conversation, which is defined by a mutual contribution to advancing thought provoking ideas, things(pussy) dry up.

    “Your idea of convo sounds gay.””

    Actually taking a chick’s conversation as serious, in either content or context, sounds pretty gay to me.

    Pretty strange responses from a man. Putting another man down on a forum such as this reveals ones own weakness. You are reading some bizarre twists into my statements, but so do chicks if conversation gets too serious…LOL

    They already earned my attention, you are lagging behind in viewing the scene.

  36. @Blaximus

    The ” women aren’t for conversation ” meme…

    Well, I may have been exaggerating a bit in my post. Some of them actually are able to converse, like my young SB who is Sudanese and see’s a large part of the world through a red-pill lens. But I’m careful to wrap these conversations in something like a slap on the ass, a twirl, or a little dance in the kitchen. It’s like she’s able to grasp the concepts but also needs that little spike to reassure her I’m not turning into a dull dickless man.

    On the other handle, I’ve been with about 3 other 19yos who’s biggest interest are painting their toenails and fixing up their hair.

    And the 45yo crowd? ugh

  37. Women appear brain dead only if they are not into you.

    I run into women who are interesting to talk to but who aren’t into me. And I run into women who are dull, but who are into me. And I run into women who are interesting to talk to AND who are into me.

    So, my experience doesn’t support your statement. I think that you are too focused on getting the fuck because you are so damn thirsty. (In my case, I game without trying if I’m not being analytical and am just looking to have a good time.)

    Maybe you should focus more on just having a good time.

    @all

    Going to a non-dance venue was useful to me and thanks (!) to the guys who suggested it. It confirmed what I thought–that dancing was only part of my game (and not the biggest part). I’m not apprehensive at all about approaching girls in a non-dance venue. The non-dance venue was loud…I expect that a quieter venue requires a more subdued approach than just getting in girl’s faces and singing to them. Probably some actual convo.

  38. Well, I may have been exaggerating a bit in my post. Some of them actually are able to converse, like my young SB who is Sudanese and see’s a large part of the world through a red-pill lens. But I’m careful to wrap these conversations in something like a slap on the ass, a twirl, or a little dance in the kitchen.

    Yeah, didn’t we used to call that “changing it up”? That’s how you do it.

  39. @theasdgamer

    Oh, I just noticed from your last comment…

    You’re married!!! LOL

    Keep conversing with your gal…

    Kind of counter to redpill living if you ask me. I do not see the point I guess. Commanding ones life, instead of commanding a wife, sounds so much more fun.

    Never been hitched at mid 60’s and never will. Raised 3 kids by 2 carriers. So you got me pinned as beta do ya….good luck.

    That’s enough banter, or is it convo, for this grand morning.

  40. > This is one of the few times I’ve seen the subject of women at/over 50 even referenced.
    >
    > I’ve thought of it as the second wall.

    Women talk about becoming invisible when they get older. 50 is the event horizon.

  41. Wow… So many odd comments today ..

    Come on boyos!

    Sri – “There are no red pilled women. ”

    Haha. They are all red pilled. Hypergamy doesn’t care remember? They feel the truths then invent thoughts and meaning to hang on em. You can’t dog logic them you can only change how they feel.

    Cult I Beta ” Mastery is displayed through action not conversation.”

    Conversation is also action.

    Blax/Palma. “My experiences are vastly different ”

    Alphas have veeeery different reference experiences. When YOU are exceptional you draw in/bring out those who are also exceptional. I’ve met some astonishingly beautiful and accomplished young women. In bars. Actually the “dumb blonde” meme has gone the way of the dodo… Our era has made beauty such a store of wealth, scratch an 8 or 9 and, outside of pockets like university, you will find an incredibly well travelled, well read and often accomplished to a degree in an arts or other field, woman. Sure she won’t be on your level but they aren’t the simple minded sluts we are made to believe. Of course if you can’t be in “those places” where they concentrate or open that clam up… You might think otherwise.

    Waffles

    “I have a question, does this largely apply to the realm of the FINANCIAL aspect? ”

    No. The Alpha Triad traits are what’s important. Yeah you need to eat, but she will tske eating less amd less well if you are demonstrating the traits – being dynamic, passionate and authentic.

    Which is really what the OP psycho was getting at here

    “When a man isn’t pursuing his dreams and highest self, the woman oftentimes interprets that as a lack of love for her, as though continuing to stay competitive and strong in the world shows her that he is invested in the relationship. ”

    The hamster is intepreting her loss of attraction for the formerly alpha guy now becoming betaized as a lack of love for her. So she can rationalize a monkey branch. Hypergamy… When a man is demonstrating the Alpha Triad traits, well her alpha meter is pinging right and hypergamy is at bay.

  42. When you converse with a (potential or actual) love interest, you have to engage both her mind and her hindbrain…it’s like having a convo with two people.

  43. One last comment before hitting the field

    @theasdgamer

    “”I think that you are too focused on getting the fuck because you are so damn thirsty.””

    I’ve already got the fuck, dude. Gaming for fucks takes no time. There was never “conversation” to get there.

    Twice you made this statement. The fact you are so quick to make such an assessment is revealing of your own agenda. I have no need to defend or counter attack such nonsense

    I do not know this thirst you speak of. Perhaps you have more experience with the thirst…

  44. You’re married!!! LOL

    Keep conversing with your gal…

    You only fuck mutes?

    Kind of counter to redpill living if you ask me. I do not see the point I guess. Commanding ones life, instead of commanding a wife, sounds so much more fun.

    different strokes…

  45. Here’s the Red Pill truth every guy needs to understand:

    Women love a man who has his own dream, does his own thing: Platinum Rule…

    But then when it becomes clear to her that this same guy is doing this FOR her—to support the family, to please her, to make a living….slowly the idea of “provider” creeps into her psyche prompting her hamster to start second-guessing her initial attraction.

    “He’s trying too hard”= loss of attraction.

    She then seeks someone of higher value who tends to her “needs”= hypergamy.

    Understanding this and every thing a guy does MUST be because HE wants to do it…

    This cycle or hypergamy is not a challenge or a hazard, it is a RED PILL TRUTH.

    I’m now in the midst of changing jobs and moving into my own business. The reaction I get from women when I tell them: “I”m starting my own thing”….immediately spikes attraction: it’s mysterious, it’s intriguing, it demonstrates confidence.

    Start revealing all the struggles and display TOO MUCH VULNERABILITY….and her initial support drops as YOU become more of a burden to her.

  46. and finally…

    Sentient reveals also, the need to put down commenters, even redefining ones handle, in order to elevate oneself. BTW, women do not get wet by a man putting down another man. A man who must make comparisons with other men to seek points is clearly interpreted as weak and inconsequential to women.

    Cult I Beta ” Mastery is displayed through action not conversation.”

    Conversation is also action.

    NO. Conversation is NOT action. Thats some new age “everything is everything” BS.

    Action is movement. Physical movement. Keep sitting at your desk or barstool

    I,ve got physical work to act on this morning. Good day boys.

  47. Walawala

    Cosign. If one owns a dog, he shouldn’t ever put the leash on himself and expect the dog to walk him, while expecting the dog to recognize and appreciate the motive behind the gesture.

  48. When you converse with a (potential or actual) love interest, you have to engage both her mind and her hindbrain…it’s like having a convo with two people.

    Wise words! Wish I new that 30 years ago.

  49. Conversation is NOT action.

    Action around women can be nonverbal communication.

    Attractive nonverbal communication:

    Kino. Dancing with girls. Lasering. Triangulation. Lifting a girl in the air. Swatting her butt. Getting in her grill. Walking tall with a spring in your step. Bear hugs. Kisses. Confident expressions. Amused mastery smiles. Cocky grins.

    Unattractive nonverbal communication:

    Slouching. A frame hugs. Staring at a girl. Feather touches. Confused and fearful expressions. Queasy smiles.

  50. Sentient

    Understanding the power of conversation seems to be understood by puas seeking a ons or fast lay, but in the larger application business to miss that conversation+action coupled with understanding catonese is an unbeatable combination. Like an air/land/sea military assault.

  51. “Actually the “dumb blonde” meme has gone the way of the dodo… Our era has made beauty such a store of wealth, scratch an 8 or 9 and, outside of pockets like university, you will find an incredibly well travelled, well read and often accomplished to a degree in an arts or other field, woman.”

    That’s just projection. If she passes your boner test, then you can project anything on her. When she has perky tities, to pseudo-intellectual man she will sound intelligent, a blue balled beta will think of her as Unicorn and a Man with options will see her for what she is (tits and ass).

    In the Red Man Group episode with TFM, TFM made a good point about projection (10:31 to 11:30).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uvnw5uNNwxE

    The guy fucks sex dolls but he appears to know a lot more about women than an average Red Pilled man.

  52. Waffles

    I’m sort of in the same boat and apply specific strategies to filter out the more hypergamous. I’m in my late 50s, with a career that provides an income that is a little more than half the national average, but I’m a good saver and so far, a good investor. My net worth puts me in the top 20% of wealth assets….and I deliberately disguise it. I want a good retirement and will not split it. I live in a modest house in a modest neighborhood and drive a 2006 Honda Accord. These make for great filters. Sadly, I’ve just ended a two year relationship with a wonderful woman who is darn near next to perfect, except for one thing…and she goes off on it despite agreed upon boundaries that we agree to disagree and not talk about it….She has Trump Derangement Syndrome….So, back to sport fishing (https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=patrice+oneal+sport+fishing&view=detail&mid=19BCE458D99E3A65B6A019BCE458D99E3A65B6A0&FORM=VIRE )

  53. Okay, I listened to the tfm portion.

    Poor guy.

    He’s peddling something to angry males some how. It’s not based on rational reaction to a nature of women. Maybe some guys project into women, no doubt, but tfm is into painting all men with the monkey shit smeared brush. Sounds like sour grapes ( a lifetime worth ) to me.

    Less sour, more knowledge and ability.

  54. Excellent post. I’ve bitched in the past about how a lot of this is repetitive. But, I admit my bitching has more to do with my difficulty in swallowing the reality of all this and my anger over it is very apparent.

    Your writings provide excellent “refreshers” with new angels of insight.

    My wife loves to watch “The Bachelor” and “The Bachelorette”. I’ve been watching it with her for years and have become extremely quick and accurate at predicting exactly what will happen as the show progresses throughout the season. Although the show involves people in a fish bowl who have as much a relationship with the show itself and it’s producers, behavior mostly follows the usual patterns based on red pill truths. My wife thinks I’m “so smart” and she is often wrong in her predictions as I am consistently correct. I have also predicted the course and outcomes of relationships around us including affairs, divorces, etc. based on the same. I’m not that smart, but enough to never explicate any of this to any woman including her. It would “blow my cover” and I do not think any woman is capable of comprehending it on as purely a rational level as I or any willing man. I’m not that smart, I have simply applied sharpened red pill awareness as a template and a lens. My awareness has been brought from a blur into sharp focus by reading red pill material over the past several years, ESPECIALLY your blog. It provides a reliable frame and working evolving sense to stay on target. The truth of all this provides a reliable “psycho cybernetic” solution and prevention system for any man willing to go far enough down the rabbit hole. And it is free. Thank you.

  55. DisgruntledEarthling

    you can develop, I do not understand and that seems important to me

    Thank’s

  56. I don’t agree with TFM regarding sex dolls, but I don’t judge him for the choices he has made in his life. But credit where credit is due, his point that a man will project his “ideal” on a woman is spot on. It is blue pill trait.

    That is why it is important to make something clear about “conversation” …. it is required to seduce a women. A woman wants to be stimulated by conversation and the man must feed her hamster. But a Man does not need conversation with a woman to be aroused. Just because a fat land whale is “well travelled, well read and often accomplished to a degree in an arts or other field” it will not make me want to bang her.

  57. Conversation is required for more than just seducing/banging women.

    Unless a man is looking forward to a future life festooned with sex dolls. One is not absolved from his responsibility to not ” project ” shit on women or anyone else for that matter.

  58. Cult I

    “I,ve got physical work to act on this morning. ”

    Pick up some washers while your out… Them sinks ain’t fixin themselves.

    Btw – those easily tooled will be tooled.

    I bet you have a very clean room.

  59. Oh, and btw I do judge tfm yapping about sex dolls because he is judgemental himself. Judge not….etc. Etc.

    What does it do in advancement of red pill/intersexual dynamic understanding to talk about sex spoken with respect to men projecting? I got his intent, but I don’t cosign guys that way they’re trying to help me cosigning their misunderstanding or laziness or lack of internal vision and fortitude.

    O/t

    Why does Donovan always look like he’s afraid someone is sneaking up behind him?😁

  60. Men who do not make themselves their own MPO rely on projecting shit on women or “things”.

  61. Incubus

    “That’s just projection. ”

    How? Evidence of accomplishments is evidence.

  62. Incubus

    “But a Man does not need conversation with a woman to be aroused.”

    Well you don’t need your balls played with either, but it is nice…

    “Just because a fat land whale is “well travelled, well read and often accomplished to a degree in an arts or other field” it will not make me want to bang her.”

    What part of 8/9 don’t you understand? Oh wait!!! There is the projection you speak of!

  63. @Sentient:

    So you are saying (opps …Cathy Newman) that to bang a HB 8/9 you need her to have good conversation skills? And if she does not, you will next her?

  64. So you are saying (opps …Cathy Newman) that to bang a HB 8/9 you need her to have good conversation skills? And if she does not, you will next her?

    Pardon me if I jump in here…yeah, if pussy is dull…Next!

  65. “So you are saying (opps …Cathy Newman) that to bang a HB 8/9 you need her to have good conversation skills? And if she does not, you will next her?”

    Not at all.

    Read in context. It’s better that way…

  66. @Blax:

    Not asking you to co-sign anything. Neither do I agree with everything TFM says, that is why I mentioned the one minute portion of the video on “projection”.

    Donovan should have just shut the fuck up during that segment. Rollo was very dignified as usual, but Donovan came across as a thirsty simp.

  67. “This is when she does the self-conditioning of turning her necessity into a virtue.”

    No matter how hard the FI attempts to promote lies about what men “should” desire or accept, virtue from a mans perspective will always reside with the young virgin. Regardless of culture and technological progress, the young unadulterated hot virgin will always be the most desirable to all alphas and betas…..and it will always be the most desired personal state a woman prefers for herself. This is why women hide their indiscretions and shame men for inquiring their n count. The FIs prevailing MO is to attempt to inflate their SMV to as maximal as possible. In fact, I’m inclined to argue that SMV, inflated and imagined or not, always takes priority in a woman’s hind brain over all other aspects of hypergamy. It is the source of the only real power she has. Today, the imperitive seems to be more focused on power rather than procreation than ever before and women are literally willing to damage the SMV of men as a way to inflate their own by comparison. We see the lies playing out in this context in everything from “fat shaming” to “sowing wild oats before finding myself” to “man up”. It is all relative, if she can lower the SMV of men in general, hers is raised by comparison without any effort from her or her compliance to natural conditions. Thus we see her devolve from a human female into a briefly reigning vapid whore who rapidly metamorphoses into a hideous repulsive fat ugly harpie utterly unfit for companionship or motherhood.

  68. “…mostly overvalued evaluation of their SMV…”

    This. In era of dating apps, even women who are over 40 y/o and 40 lbs overweight get pedestalized by attention from thirsty beta orbiters who will fuck anything with tits.

  69. Palmasailor
    This is one of the few times I’ve seen the subject of women at/over 50 even referenced.

    There’s a real split visible some places. In the US you can see women over 40 and even over 50 who still look pretty good, but only in areas where there’s a lot of money (gyms, trainers, plastic surgeons, etc.) so places like DC, NYC, Miami, Chicago, Dallas, L.A., Seattle, etc. These women are a distinct minority, who are really working hard at their cougarness.

    All the rest of the old girls tend to become invisible over 50. There have been a few articles by women about this, along the lines of “I used to hate being whistled at but now I wish it would happen again!” whining.

    The cure for that problem is “wife goggles”, but those work best when she marries a man in her 20’s and doesn’t frivorce him. Whoops.

    Ben Franklin allegedly wrote about women ‘of a certain age’: “They don’t yell, they don’t tell, the don’t swell, and they are grateful as hell!”, for what that’s worth.

  70. On older women

    “These women are a distinct minority, ”

    To general population sure, but in their “sorority” no. Birds of a feather run together. Most are not single though, and if they are single they are most likely the one who was left for hotter tighter younger. And they get it.

  71. Blaximus
    If one owns a dog, he shouldn’t ever put the leash on himself and expect the dog to walk him, while expecting the dog to recognize and appreciate the motive behind the gesture.

    Some people in this coffee shop are looking at me because I just burst out laughing.

    Anyway. Lurkers, did Blax just compare women to dogs? Yep. Yes he did. For good reason.

    The better dog-training manuals both on dead tree and online make it clear that the dog won’t ever learn to speak human, so humans must learn to speak dog. Yes, a dog can learn to recognize words – up to 100 by some experts – but they are learning sound patterns that translate to “dog”. They are not learning human.

    The dog must be part of a pack, even a pack of two, and if the dog can’t perceive who leads the pack it will try to be pack leader. This is how little old ladies get obnoxious yapdogs that bite ankles: they unwittingly abdicated pack-leader status, so their yapdog is trying to lead humans as if they were dogs.

    Girls want someone to lead. If their hindbrain perceives the man isn’t doing it, they’ll try to do that job. Girls are lousy as men, they can’t do it properly because their brains aren’t wired up. At best they can mimic / imitate some man in their life or past.

    Walk the dog. Don’t expect the dog to walk you. Don’t expect the dog to even understand.

  72. @sentient

    this is the best you got. after 3 times it still baffles me.

    “I bet you have a very clean room”

    If you call a shack in the mountains a “room”

    and it gets cleaned when I have one of the ladies over…as well as other “plumbing” chores.

    The rooms they keep for my visits are spotless.

    I don’t post to respond to internet tantrums with one who does not know me nor I them.

    Break over. Next….

  73. NBTM
    No matter how hard the FI attempts to promote lies about what men “should” desire or accept, virtue from a mans perspective will always reside with the young virgin.

    That reminds me, some churchgoing blogger named Lori Alexander put up a simple posting that observed “Men prefer debt-free virgins with no tattoos” and the churchlady-sphere has gone off like a Roman candle. A whole busload of girl-bloggers have taken “men prefer…” and decoded it to mean “God loves only…”, then run down their own private Idaho rabbit trail. Pedestalizing men have mewled in agreement. Not just Shiela Gregoire, but other less openly feminista girls are mad as wet hens.

    It’s hilarious to see strong, independent, BIble-thumping, self-righteous girls turn into screeching harpies at the drop of a couple of words. Nothing pisses off sluts more than comparing them to girls that are not sluts. The cut runs right down to the bone…

  74. Alright that bring a up a good point AR church and sex are explressed and communicated at and for women. One of the harsh reality’s that hurts still is knowing that women can’t have your best interest at heart. Their wants and desires are selfish in the 80/20 ratio as well as alpha banging and beta waiting. What can dig deeper from that is attempting to communicate this as an observation in a church of all places. It’s the worst way and time to bring up human biology. A huge portion of my life was attempting to integrate the truth with reality. The pain and process of being alive and not lying about what’s really going on. Church is not where I ever found Masculine empowerment. I grew up with so much sexual emotionalism that I lost touch with what church could have been or even been. Church brings up negotiated desire. Especially with girls from 14-23 in the LDS faith you start dating at 16 mandated by the prophet of god. For me I had sexual experiences dating back at 7 while being alone with high standard Morality. It was hard to engage while also living with someone with BPD and seeming women protecting women over men. The FI and the relief society in the LDS faith have a lot in common. Pair bonding and child rearing is the primary purpose of how I see faith as someone who grew up inside it.

  75. @anon

    I’ve also seen men marry their own mom, with poor to bad results. More insidiously, I’ve seen normal girls become “mom” not just to the sprog(s) but to everyone in the house. That requires some active pushback to correct, but most men don’t see that coming because nobody ever warned them.

  76. “When men get lazy women actually feel discarded. The pain and the love is real – it isn’t so simple as jaded men think.. that women are blood thirsty gold digging monsters. The female design feels unloved and devalued when her man is not on fire for his own life..”

    What this really says….”Attention all red pill beta boys….(yes it’s an oxymoron) you have to work your provisioning ass off for me because it’s your burden of performance, it’s for me you understand, it’s your burden of performance that I own, I own your performance for me, you’re my slave, my work dog, understand? Your performance is for MY benefit. If you think it’s for your benefit, then you’re no better than all those bad boys who don’t want me anymore now that my ass has dropped, my tits have sagged and my pussy and ass are more worn out than any sense of compassion I never had. Your performance is for me, and you can’t steal it from me, I’ll make this the law by god!”

  77. A good friend of mine called me yesterday, coming back from seeing his parents. Both my pal and his dad are into cycling. So they went on a cycling trip; except his mum insisted on coming along. How do you think that went? “Guys, slow down”. “This is too steep for me”. “I need a drink”. “It’s too hot!”. He rang me specifically to vent about how his mum ruined his and his dad’s trip.

    @Handmade:
    https://therationalmale.com/2015/10/20/never-take-a-woman-fishing/

  78. @Rugby:

    “Their wants and desires are selfish in the 80/20 ratio as well as alpha banging and beta waiting.”

    Didn’t you get the memo, nobody is struggling with “desire sex”. 80/20 is a sham. As long as “you are getting some” its fine, and if you are not getting any you are a “44 year old, 5 foot three, pot bellied, balding Indian currycell, sucks to be you. The manosphere is obsolete and not needed anymore.

    Rant over.

  79. The female design feels unloved and devalued when her man is not on fire for his own life.

    Exactly why I argue against the insistent focus in the christian manosphere on the word “submit”. Nowhere in the Bible does God say a wife should submit to her husband. The truth is that God created Eve to help Adam, a wife to help her husband. Who is the help and who is the helped is determined by who gives the instructions, and who carries them out. The help, by definition, is the one who carries out the will / instructions of the helped. Helping comes first. But in the helping, the help submits their will to the will of the helped. The help focuses on the mission of the helped, and not on their own mission. It is within the act of helping that submission occurs.

    It is useful to keep this in mind. One can “submit” without ever helping. One cannot ever truely help without submitting – focusing on the will of, carrying out the instructions of, the helped.

    God created Eve to help Adam, wife to help husband.

    What of the husband who has no mission, and thus has no need of help from his wife – the one who God created to be a help for him? What of the husband who has a mission, but tells his wife – the one who God created to be a help for him – that he’s got things covered, he doesn’t need any help from her? If God’s design is that submission is an outcome of helping, how can a wife in this situation fulfill the role that God created her to fulfill? Preaching to her that the Bible says that she must submit, when the husband has no need of her help, is not going to solve the problem. Even the psychiatrist quoted above understands this.

    From the standpoint of those who believe the Bible – The female design feels unloved and devalued when her man is not on fire for his own life can be restated to say the wife was created to be a help for her husband; what of the wife whose husband shows that he has no need of her help, for whatever reason? How does she is supposed to submit find any relevance is such a circumstance?

    God did not say that Eve would/should submit to Adam. He created Eve to be a help for Adam. Eve’s submission came into being naturally, in the act of her helping Adam, her focusing her efforts on Adam’s mission and not on her own mission. How would this submission have a chance to materialize in an environment where Adam never needed her help, where husband has no need of his wife’s help? Anything the New Testament has to say about a wife’s submission to her husband must be consistant with this concept if it is not trying to place a restriction on New Testament wives that God did not place on Eve.

  80. As usual – very interesting article.
    Many comments on hypergamy etc. … Rollo wondered about the hypothetical endgame of MGTOW. My take from passively reading and watching some of their videos: They dance around the elephant in the room all the time (and black pill guys even more so) :
    If you share their premises for a moment and think it through, there is only one logical solution –> simply force women to do the right thing for everybody, aka just force them to mate to beta, regular stable guys. And they are DEADLY afraid of that conclusion.

    Fun fact: Even if 90% of women would produce horrible shit storms if you held this position…it would amount to at least a lesser form of being alpha and THEY WOULD NOT HAVE PROBLEMS GETTING WOMEN AT ALL.

    Quite ironic, really, if you think about it.

  81. 447

    “Quite ironic, really, if you think about it.”

    There is no “winning” against hypergamy. It’s a win win strategy for women.

  82. MGTOW manifests the fact that a notable and growing number (both in quantity and individual size) of women in the culture are completely undesirable to ANY man. Earlier in the devolution and disintegration of this culture it was generally accepted that “there is someone for everyone”. This is no longer the case as women in general all the way up and down the SMV scale have taken themselves down a notch or two. The entire female population of this culture is shifted down in this context and the results are not hard to predict. Men of any culture past present or future simply will never desire fat ugly hateful women, or even the hottest woman who is a conniving whore or vitriolic feminist. This is self evident, blatant elementary common sense and should confuse no one, not even an imbecile. There is no WGTOW (Women Going Their Own Way) movement. Although, I expect in the future there will be one as a mockery copycat to MGTOW orchestrated to further confuse the uninitiated. ALL omen have moved into a direction that ALL men find less desirable. MGTOW is some men’s reaction to this downward spiraling female shit shift. Those women who have moved farthest down (the only direction women in this culture have been going for 200 years and continue to go) are the ones who have literally bullshitted themselves out of the market completely. The consequence of this is that the most discouraged and least desirable men have estranged themselves from the market because the market no longer offers them anything they desire for the price they can or are willing to pay. Scam artists like Jordan Peterson and “red pill women” (another oxymoron) are now attempting to sell their crap framed in a “man up” false call to Masculinty as their ilk once again attempts to hyjack reality in their willfully blind refusal to aknowledge their self formed condition. Desperation breeds insanity!

  83. “I’m a psychotherapist”

    ….Well… FUCK YOU!

    Say it like Ron White… “WELL FUCK YOU!”

    So, you’re a psychotherapist… a psycho… the …. rapist.

    Quite literally a psychological rapist!

    God how I relish the days when battles were fought and won with clubs, whips and swords instead of squabbling with words. Those were the days when battles were really fought and won. Today, no battles are really fought so all are losers!!!

  84. “Again, this is a perfect illustration of the differences in the concepts men and women each independently hold when it comes to love. Men love Idealistically, women love Opportunistically and this quote spells this out in no uncertain terms – in fact it’s so ironic I’m not sure the woman relating this to me even realizes what she’s doing. Women intimately associate a man’s ambitiousness, his drive for mastery and power, his want for dominance, with her Opportunistic concept of love. She’s correct here, when men get lazy women feel discarded. However, this is because a man contenting himself with how things are and dropping all ambition confirms what her Hypergamous nature fears most – he’s really incompetent.”

    Here’s the rub. It is HIS ambition, not hers. It is HIS as he chooses to exercise it when and how and to what extent HE desires. If he concedes the definition of his ambition to her or defers to her any expression of it, then it is no longer HIS ambition. He gives ownership,of it up to her. And when this happens, no matter how he performs, she owns control of his ambition and by extension his performance and by further extension she owns him and his life.

    The Venus fly trap!

    So, who,owns your life, you or her?

  85. “Aryan Blindboy
    July 23, 2018 at 11:20 pm
    “The female design feels unloved and devalued when her man is not on fire for his own life..” –

    ya – The withdrawal of the host’s vigor is detrimental, even fatal to the parasite. MGTOW.”

    Amen!
    Pure host-parasite dynamic! It’s in the parasites’ best interest for the host to thrive on his burden of performance! If the host becomes too weak or ill he can’t provide anymore nutrients to the parasite! The parasite has contributed to his downfall with it’s demands and now that the host is too weak and dying it looks for a more healthy host to continue its life cycle!

  86. So many comments echo from far in the past. My older sister about 1983, “Mom, why is everything made for 17 year olds?” She was in her mid twenties. I was 21 and KNEW her question could only refer to 17 year old females, because “everything” sure as hell was not and is not “made for” 17 year old males.

  87. Ambition, ambition and more ambition.

    Get out there and man up. Make your mark.

    Gotta have ambition boy. Burden of performance. Rat on a wheel. The whole culture is built on “ambition”. But for what, other than consumption, materialistic self indulgence. Give them an inch and they will take a mile. Real accomplishments are meaningless to hypergamy without the trappings of materialism. On and on it spirals. And this is in a culture where the “poor” are all provided for regardless of “ambition”. Ambition – consumption – acquisition – debt – slavery, The American Dream. The perfect education. The perfect job. The perfect girl. The McMansion. Trophy jobs, trophy cars, trophy wives, trophy homes, trophy mistress ….all seduce and conscript as many fools as possible into miserable lives of corporate plantation debt servitude. The rat race. Maybe you’ll “get lucky”and find your soul mate. Her veil hides a fat harpie offering you sloppy 200ths. But look at the bright side, it’s your burden of performance. It’s Maslows heiarchy of needs. It’s the meaning of life. It’s what your life is “supposed” to be. You are “supposed” to struggle. It’s your life’s purpose. Most men live lives of quiet desperation. Be desperate. Strive to meet your burden of performance boy. This is your pourpose as the great American princess taunts and she teases you with her ass and tits. This is what your miserable existence is meant to serve as she and her sisters vilify and shame you for your instincts and extract every dime possible from you through a feminine legal,system and government tax burden… yes another burden of performance. Look under this blanket of your burden of performance and what a basket of burdens you will find, tax burdens, your time and overtime, the never ending burden to “improve”, to constantly compete. Paying respect to anything else makes you “incompetent”. Yes! You are condemned to live the life of a miserable slave ultimately disrespected and discarded when your “ambition” runs out. Eggs are expensive and sperm is cheap. YOU are cheap. You are one of millions of struggling swimmers in a sea of the same. So, keep that ambition, it is your only hope, keep struggling, keep swimming against the stream. It’s your burden of performance, it’s ambition, desperation, isolation. You have been used.

    America is a whore.

  88. Rollo
    But he’s been taught to sacrifice EVERYTHING to keep the relationship “healthy”.

    Especially the churchgoing men who are taught “Love endures all things” therefore he has to endure his wife’s bad behavior without complaint or correction, for the rest of his life.

  89. I disagree NBTM.

    Hypergamy isn’t about ” money ” or ” things ” as much as one may think.

    You can win while being broke as fuck.

  90. Win at life.

    People follow other’s plans in life so much that they can’t recognize when the are actually winning.

    Winning = Not Losing.

    Winning = Breathing and mobile.

    Winning = personal progress/progression.

    Winning = freedom from mental tribulation.

    etc.

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