Love and Ambition

I’m a psychotherapist working with couples, especially men who get left by their wives. I’ve studied your material for over a year now and the hypergamy stuff is dead on. I just wanted to share and maybe talk with you about the red pill rage that results — women love opportunistically yes, but many men who comment on your material are missing a component I believe. And it’s not one I’ve heard you allude to much either.. When a man isn’t pursuing his dreams and highest self, the woman oftentimes interprets that as a lack of love for her, as though continuing to stay competitive and strong in the world shows her that he is invested in the relationship. When men get lazy women actually feel discarded. The pain and the love is real – it isn’t so simple as jaded men think.. that women are blood thirsty gold digging monsters. The female design feels unloved and devalued when her man is not on fire for his own life..

I had this sent to me recently. It’s actually a pretty standard trope for Trad-Con women who want to justify their leaving a husband or having left an old lover/baby-daddy. They like to pretend they’re ‘red pill’ and so the only men who might qualify for their expired sexual market value will be Red Pill men who meet their new qualifications. One thing I’m seeing more and more of in this sub-section of the manosphere (really femosphere) is aged-out divorcé women who want to rebrand the ‘red pill’ to justify their unmarried, unpaired, state in the new sexual marketplace. As you might imagine, their solipsism gets combined with what they convert into a convenient rationale about what Red Pill men ought to be like. The lack of ‘real men’, real ‘red pill’ men is ostensibly why they’re still single – no man is actually ‘red pill’ enough to satisfy their hamstering and thus, it’s not they who have the problem, but rather the men who lack the balls to live up to those expectations.

If this sounds familiar – like maybe a feminist spouted off a version of it – you’re right. I wrote about this rationalization back in The Bitter Taste of the Red Pill:

Game-aware women – the ones who have been forcibly exhausted of all pretense of maintaing the illusion that Game is a lie – feel as though it’s owed to them, in their concession of Game’s reality, that Men should use Game to women’s benefit. Even to the last effort women still cling to the tools of a feminized acculturation;

“Yeah, OK, you got us, Game is really what women want, Hypergamy is the law of womankind, but now it’s your responsibility that you use it for the better benefit of society by molding a new breed of improved Betas to accommodate fem-centric monogamy. You owe us our security for having admitted to the grand illusion that’s kept you in thrall for so long.”

It’s an indictment of Game-aware women, and sympathizing men, that they should feel a need to delineate some aspects of Game into good camps (pro woman, pro feminized monogamy) and bad camps (manipulative, polygynous, male-centered). Even in the admission of the truth that Game has enlightened Men of, the feminine imperative still seeks to categorize the application of Game to its own end. That Men might have some means of access to their own sexual strategy is too terrible a Threat; Game must be colored good or bad as it concerns the imperatives of women and a fem-centric societal norm.

As the default, socially correct and virtuous concern, women have an easier time of this. As Game becomes increasingly more difficult to deny or misdirect for the feminine, the natural next step in accepting it becomes qualifying its acceptable uses. While hypergamy is an ugly truth, the characterization of it becomes “just how women are” – an unfortunate legacy of their evolution. However for Men, the characterizations of the harsher aspects of Game in its rawest form (contingencies for hypergamy) are dubbed “the dark arts”.

Red Pill Women – A Convenient Rationale

I wrote this back in 2012. Some of my earliest posts were about predicting exactly this phenomenon in the future. The more Red Pill aware a woman is – or I should say, the more she consciously acknowledges it – the greater the need will be to find fault in men for not living up to what they redefine as ‘red pill’ canon. The more widespread Red Pill awareness of intersexual dynamics becomes, and the more accepted it is, the more it will serve as an alibi for women trying to rebuild a life they destroyed themselves. It becomes a Red Pill man’s ‘duty’ to forgive their indiscretions and help them recover too.

Over the years Dalrock has gone into how women detonate their marriages as a result of divorce porn fantasies. I’m not sure he really dissects the aftermath of their divorces. And this is only one way in which women may find themselves single around middle age. In Preventive Medicine I detail how women go through at least to periods of crisis level Hypergamous doubt during a marriage. Women’s prerequisites for attraction (not arousal) shifts radically once she reaches the Epiphany Phase (29-31). She becomes far more compromising in terms of physicality in exchange for aspects of a man she finds desirable for long-term prospects of security. Whereas she may have only dated banged guys 1-2 inches taller than herself in her Party Years, now she’s willing to entertain the idea of banging dating a guy slightly shorter than herself so long as he has a capacity for success and provisioning for her.

This is an interesting phase to pick apart because it’s likely the first time in a woman’s life that she’s considering a relationship with a guy based on transactional sex as opposed to the prime directive of validational sex she’s been pursuing for most of her Party Years (18-26). For the first time her long-term attraction is based on different aspects of a man’s Burden of Performance.

During the Epiphany Phase a woman plays a complex game of internalized mental gymnastics. Her hindbrain understands that her sexual market value has been decaying for at least a couple of years prior to this conscious recognition of it. The enjoyment of the Party Years has to be weighed against the fact that she’s progressively losing the attention of the men she would like to have ‘enthusiastic’ validational sex with, and the necessity of a long-term security with a long-term partner. Thus, the rationalization engine kicks into overdrive. She must convince herself that the less exciting (arousing) but better provisioning guy who’s happy to have her at 30 represents the type of guy she ‘should‘ have been with all along.

This is a self-bullshitting contrivance of course, but in her mind the guy who she’s marrying or pairing long term with must be an example of a ‘good prospect’. This is when she does the self-conditioning of turning her necessity into a virtue. She was “so crazy in college, but now she’s matured and not like that anymore.” Or she’s “Getting right with God” or she’s “Learned her lesson in dating banging those Bad Boys” who’ve characterized her intimate life up until this point.

Those are the easy self-contrivances; what’s more difficult is convincing her hindbrain (that desperately wants the exciting validational sex with the Bad Boy) that the unexciting ‘Good Guy’ is really what’s best for her. This is where women like to rearrange what’s really important to them in a man.

This is the internal conflict that takes place in the Epiphany Phase, but what happens to the woman who never gets to consolidate on the ‘Good Guy’? For a variety of reasons (mostly overvalued evaluation of their SMV) more and more women find themselves ‘never marrieds’ and/or they follow the timeline in Preventive Medicine and find themselves divorced of their own doing. In either case, women still work through a similar series of self-rationalizations with respect to what they’re looking for, and what they feel they are entitled to, in a man around 38 to 45, sometimes as late as 50.

And this is where the Red Pill feeds that female entitlement schema. The logic goes like this:

If I’m a Red Pill woman and I agree with all of these Red Pill men who, despite all my misgivings, align with my (self-defined and sanitized) definition of what it means to be “red pill”, then these men owe it to me to unplug from their Blue Pill delusions and see me for the jewel in the rough that I really am.

I think the time a woman is most likely to discover she’s a “Red Pill Woman” is conveniently at the point in her life when she’s at her most necessitous. You will almost never find a girl of 22 who’d want to identify as a Trad-Con “Red Pill” woman – the incentives to do so simply don’t exist at this age. The fact that it is predominantly Traditional Conservative women who are either just pre-Wall or post-Wall, single-mothers, never married spinsters, divorcés or married-to-lesser-Betas who wish to redefine ‘Red Pill’ to use as a litmus test for the type of men they believe they’re entitled to is no coincidence.

Message to the ladies: Men don’t owe you shit. If you happen upon a man who shares your entitlement belief-set, a man willing to forgive your past indiscretions and marry you despite a ruthless marriage/divorce industrial complex arrayed against him, then thank whatever God you pray to and fuck that guy’s brains out to keep him happy, but don’t pretend it’s because either you or he is “Red Pill”. The fact that he would entertain the idea of a relationship with you disqualifies him from being “Red Pill”.

If you find yourself single, never-married at 38 and it “just never worked out for you” it’s time you look past your solipsism and find some real introspect. The problem begins and ends with you.

Love and Opportunism

Now, all that said, the ‘psychotherapist‘ who sent me this does have some legitimate points.

When a man isn’t pursuing his dreams and highest self, the woman oftentimes interprets that as a lack of love for her, as though continuing to stay competitive and strong in the world shows her that he is invested in the relationship.

First of all this is flat out false; I’ve written several posts that illustrate exactly this perspective. From Setting the Rules:

Once a woman understands the gravity and legitimacy of your purpose / passion, only then can she come to appreciate the significance of you foregoing or postponing the dictates of that purpose for her. She will never feel more important to you than when you (occasionally) lift her above that legitimate, verified purpose.

Women will never appreciate a relationship that is a Man’s greatest ambition.

That’s an old (obscure?) post I wrote some time ago, but the basic principle is that a man must be fearless in his pursuit of his passions both before and after he’s entered into some kind of committed exclusivity. In Acing the Test I point out that women tend to shit test for different things while single and when in an LTR. In a long term relationship these test are characterized by the need to quell the Hypergamous doubt that she paired with a guy who is, or has the potential for competency. In other words her Hypergamous hindbrain wants to know it made its best ‘bet’ on you.

And while that’s all fine and well, her hindbrain’s insecurity wars with the need for you to retain your ambition and your being emotionally available for her. When these two aspects come into conflict it is up to a man to retain the world, the Frame, he’s established in which she feels comfortable and yet uncomfortable enough to know he’s competent to be powerful in directing his own course in life.

When men get lazy women actually feel discarded. The pain and the love is real – it isn’t so simple as jaded men think.. that women are blood thirsty gold digging monsters. The female design feels unloved and devalued when her man is not on fire for his own life..

Again, this is a perfect illustration of the differences in the concepts men and women each independently hold when it comes to love. Men love Idealistically, women love Opportunistically and this quote spells this out in no uncertain terms – in fact it’s so ironic I’m not sure the woman relating this to me even realizes what she’s doing. Women intimately associate a man’s ambitiousness, his drive for mastery and power, his want for dominance, with her Opportunistic concept of love. She’s correct here, when men get lazy women feel discarded. However, this is because a man contenting himself with how things are and dropping all ambition confirms what her Hypergamous nature fears most – he’s really incompetent.

This is especially salient when a man trades his ambitions (assuming he had them) for a relationship with her. This reverses the Burden of Performance to her and as a result she feels unloved because her concept of love is founded on his capacity for competence. She feels unloved because opportunism defines her concept of love; and he only confirms his worthlessness by abdicating his Burden of Performance.

From Love Story:

Men are expected to perform. To be successful, to get the girl, to live a good life, men must do. Whether it’s riding wheelies down the street on your bicycle to get that cute girl’s attention or to get a doctorate degree to ensure your personal success and your future family’s, Men must perform. Women’s arousal, attraction, desire and love are rooted in that conditional performance. The degree to which that performance meets or exceeds expectations is certainly subjective, and the ease with which you can perform is also an issue, but perform you must.

A lot of this relates to the standard Mental Point of Origin conversation.

Blue Pill men are conditioned to think two things:

III. You shall make your mission, not your woman, your priority

Forget all those romantic cliches of the leading man proclaiming his undying love for the woman who completes him. Despite whatever protestations to the contrary, women do not want to be “The One” or the center of a man’s existence. They in fact want to subordinate themselves to a worthy man’s life purpose, to help him achieve that purpose with their feminine support, and to follow the path he lays out. You must respect a woman’s integrity and not lie to her that she is “your everything”. She is not your everything, and if she is, she will soon not be anymore.

Leave a Reply

  Subscribe  
Notify of
trackback

[…] Love and Ambition […]

foxguy148
Guest
foxguy148

“Red Pilled Women” Been seeing a lot of these “Red Pilled” women on Twitter, not impressed. As the marriage market contracts we see the smarter more pragmatic women see the writing on the wall, and begin to shift their strategies towards hooking a fish/man. Make to mistake about it, there are no true red pilled women, it’s impossible. Red Pill requires adhering to certain principles, women by natural design cannot hold to principle they must be pragmatic in order to ensure survival, end of story. The more interesting phenomenon is the fact they are virtue signaling about red pill at… Read more »

Veneno1
Guest
Veneno1

Great post Rollo. This is “red pill woman” is just a female sexual strategie as outlined by Black Pill Logic. As someone who has been red pill for only a 5 months and having experienced in my reflection being Alpha windowed atleast twice. I can say the statements that women make “I don’t usually date guys like you” or “your not like other guys” is a clear warning for you to the LTR/STR leave now. My beta reasoning as has always confused me until I swolled the pill can’t this woman see I’m 6.0 foot , 225 and jacked, I’m… Read more »

Aryan Blindboy
Guest
Aryan Blindboy

“The female design feels unloved and devalued when her man is not on fire for his own life..” –

ya – The withdrawal of the host’s vigor is detrimental, even fatal to the parasite. MGTOW.

Rudd
Guest
Rudd

We often have a go at the Feminine Imperative here, and for good reasons. But this is an excellent reminder that we also have a shitload of responsiblity, in pariicular to understand and follow our mission, there is no alternative ! Get lazy, complacent and pay the price, and rightly so. The leading writers in the manosphere come from varied viewpoints but putting your msssion as your first priority is something they all spell out in unison. I thought David Deida articulates this need most precisely in that the fight from freedom and escape, through a commitment to a mans… Read more »

Handmade
Guest
Handmade

“She wants to bond and feel loved (solipstically) through her man who knows his mission and is willing to go through lifes obstacles to achieve his goals (including her ongoing shit tests ) and take her on that journey she craves.” I get that but every time I think of it, or see it stated as you did here, there is a clear sense of resentment swelling up within me. Who gives a fuck about what she craves; why should I give a toss? After all, she will never reciprocate. The solipsistic nature of females kinda disqualifies them in my… Read more »

Handmade
Guest
Handmade

^^ in the romantic sense, I mean. Game can of course be very useful for other social scenarios. But here I specifically referred to having to taking her on that journey.

Palmasailor
Guest
Palmasailor

Red pill women and a bit of MGTOW This is one of the few times I’ve seen the subject of women at/over 50 even referenced. I think they are a different category really. Of course Hypergamy still exists but by this age for the main part they are absolutely shit out of options. I’ve thought of it as the second wall. I’m glad to see in the latest Red Man podcast that the distinction was made between higher and lower ‘functioning’ MGTOW. I still don’t strictly agree but I won’t labour it. I think the older women thing is where… Read more »

Rudd
Guest
Rudd

@ Handmade My experience has been that if I put my mission first the women in my life strongly supported me, wanted me to win (probably to make themselves feel good as much as supporting me) but nevertheless they were loyal and complemented my journey. The ONE time where i stopped putting my journey first and placed her on the pedestal (ie my one marriage) was when it all flipped massivelly backwards. Learnt my lesson the hardway and now back on the saddle again, putting my journey first and enjoying the support of a woman whos also enjoying the ride.… Read more »

Sri
Guest
Sri

Rollo, here’s a statement considering the state of most women over a certain age in America.

Women suffer terribly when they have to face the reality of swallowing their Red Pill. If you think taking the Red Pill was hard on men, when women wake up to the reality that they have to face as a result of their choices and emotions, they shatter.

Onder
Guest
Onder

This is exactly why you should never allow your woman to let herself go physically.

If her natural condition of love is based on your performance, then it only stands to reason that her looking hot and sexy by hitting the gym must be a condition for you.

If she piles on the pounds, then its your duty to either tell her to fix up or kick her out.

theasdgamer
Guest

With proper training, women can manage their own Hypergamy, to some extent. Part of the Red Pill for women is that they failed to marry young because of a lack of proper training. Part of the Red Pill for women is that if they wait to get pregnant when they are in their 30s, they have a harder time going to term and delivering healthy babies, if they can even manage to get pregnant at all. Women’s bodies are designed to be pregnant; women who’ve had a lot of kids tend to keep their youth better. Young men aren’t trained… Read more »

HyperMO
Guest
HyperMO

Psychotherapist: “I do not feel loved when you don’t reach my goals.”

An excellent essay Rollo.

I married one of those who women who decided to “Get right with God” and she is still trying to get right with God as she pulls the pin on that grenade. She turns 50 in a few days and doesn’t seem to realize how fucked she has made herself. Talk about not reaching you goals!

theasdgamer
Guest

I’m trying to give some of you a window into the past so that you can see other possibilities from history… I can remember that girls used to attempt to bring more than looks when they were interested in a guy…they’d joke and be good conversationalists and be knowledgeable about current events…but guys had higher status relative to girls back then and betas were attractive and betas had more alpha characteristics, like Jim Anderson in “Father Knows Best.” Girls would work their butts off to land a man–most of which were betas. In the current environment, men are very thirsty… Read more »

Sri
Guest
Sri

There are no red pilled women. Because 1) Women don’t really have such a strong frame. They can be easily swayed by herd mentality and market forces. 2) Red Pill Woman is basically a good girl NAWALT tactic. One article from the first book that made me wake up was the chapter on good girls. I took a good look at all the girls and their histories around me, and oh yeah, you will not believe what they can do in the right environment. If anything one always has to be very careful about the people trying to be too… Read more »

pinelero
Guest
pinelero

Verbal pimp slap to hypergamy… that’s why I read TRM. The burden of performance discussion was a slap to me. This is aspect of RP I wrestle with all the time. Some stuff I just don’t care about or have no mission for it. With the RP lens I know now the woman was judging me on it, but honestly I could care less. The lack of unconditional love over failing to meet her estimate of my burden of performance is a bit savage to bear, but I know now to just not let it bother me anymore. I have… Read more »

Shark
Guest
Shark

The world is not enough for her, but it’s the man’s job to conquer it and share it with her – – no real effort on her part, of course. But she “supported him”… I finally stopped playing the rigged game.

Rudd
Guest
Rudd

@ pinelero From my observations and experience I would suggest the burden of performance judgement is not about your burdent of performance towards HER but rather ensuring there is a burden of performance towards YOU. Meaning that you dont slacken off in your own persuit of your personal mission and goals, rather than pleasing her. If you are focused on your goals and take her on that journey she will support you, if you slacken off and get lazy in achieving your goals she will quickly let you know about it. Personally I find it an excellent sense check of… Read more »

Handmade
Guest
Handmade

@ Rudd – I hear you mate, I know what you are saying. But at the very foundation of my reasoning is the question – if my life’s mission is my number one concern, and if I place the woman in my life (LTR, marriage) below it, then what is her place in my life, really? What purpose does she play in my life? Sex? Please, I can get it anyway; either by playing or by paying. What’s more, it is infinitely more varied than in a monogamous relationship. Admiration? It is only superficial, circumstantial and performance-dependent. This very essay… Read more »

Fnu Mnu Lnu
Guest

this is actually sad to read. it shows what I have been thinking, is the truth about women. They don’t really care who YOU are, they care WHAT you are.

Waffles
Guest
Waffles

“When a man isn’t pursuing his dreams and highest self, the woman oftentimes interprets that as a lack of love for her” I have a question, does this largely apply to the realm of the FINANCIAL aspect? AKA career advancement or can hobbies and interests mold this “higher self”? I do not think that I will ever be a CEO or work myself so hard that I feel stressed on a daily basis. I have a good job and have gotten steady raises/promotions but the field is generally limited in “fast track” advancement and tends to be slower in advancing… Read more »

DisgruntledEarthling
Guest
DisgruntledEarthling

@Palmasailor Nice post of the 40-50s crowd. We see the world through the same lens on this front. I hang out at pof and sometimes get freebies dropped into my lap with minimal effort. But the entitlement and list of demands I see from that age-group just boggles my mind! Really woman? You should just be banging my up front and hope I can tolerate you for more than 2 months. This time his 20 year old daughter and her friend wanted to come. When it came to it 4 of them turned up all about 20 and between HB… Read more »

DisgruntledEarthling
Guest
DisgruntledEarthling

@Handemade

Sex? …
Admiration? …
Appreciation? …
Housework?…

I struggled with the same thoughts for 28 years. At first is was sex and companionship. Then kids and the sex and companionship decreased. Then is was just the fear of change.

My father went thru the same thing with my mother and finally dumped her when I was 18ish. perhaps not so oddly I followed the same pattern but instead of chasing 45yos as he did I spent a little money on 19yos.

Rudd
Guest
Rudd

@ Handmade

Yep, its a legitimate question, what is the benefit of a woman in an LTR, i often have similar questions.

Have you read The Way of The Superor Man by David Deida ? His insights provide clues to your questions, or at least did for me about how to get the most out of feminine and masculine energy and the gifts we offer in a relationship context.

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

For a man to single mindedly focus on financials as their mission or burden misses the point completely about developing mastery, fully, as a.man.

Women can and do love. Women in the majority cannot love the way a ( blue pilled ) man usually expects. This concept that Rollo has laid out for years appear to miss most men that read it.
A woman cannot be your mother. You had a mom. She’s likely not going to live you like a woman that’s birthed you.

Cult-I-Vader
Guest
Cult-I-Vader

@palmasailor “I had thought it would be a good night but it was boring as hell. All they had was looks, no conversation. @theasdgamer I can remember that girls used to attempt to bring more than looks when they were interested in a guy…they’d joke and be good conversationalists Women as conversationalists??? Sounds pretty bluepill if you ask me. That statement brings me back to those distant azuretablet days, when I may have felt the same way. My field experience since, tells me that once attempting conversation, which is defined by a mutual contribution to advancing thought provoking ideas, things(pussy)… Read more »

anon
Guest
anon

“A woman cannot be your mother. You had a mom. She’s likely not going to live you like a woman that’s birthed you.”

I’ve actually seen a few situations where men did (essentially) marry their moms. Result is never good.

“A woman expects a man to make light of everything. They want their serious concerns to be flipped with ease by wit and wisdom to diffuse the seriousness.”

That’s so weird. Because men really like dour women.

anon
Guest
anon

Value differential estimate for women before 40: “I got THIS man!”

after 50 (or before that, or after depending on some variables): “I got A man!”

That pretty much summarizes things.

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

This is another great topic for discussion, and thank you to every commenter upping the rpm’s in my brain this morning.

The ” women aren’t for conversation ” meme… Where are most of men that find the average woman incapable of decent conversation finding these brain dead-ish chicks? Under what circumstances?

My experiences are vastly different and I cannot for the life of me ( and 5 years reading comment at trm) understand why this is.

Is it perception?

Is it men expecting women to communicate like their buddies do?

Is it a narrow field of subject matter/understanding?

Cult-I-Vader
Guest
Cult-I-Vader

@disgruntled earthling ” “I had thought it would be a good night but it was boring as hell. All they had was looks, no conversation. Hehe, I would have hit on her friends… At that age don’t expect much convo. They just don’t have the capacity for it and perhaps never will. Just use them as target practice” ” You noticed the same quote from palmasailor. This is exactly where young chicks feel the distance and lack of common ground with an older man. Your life experience will constantly belittle her lack of. A man must contain the desire to… Read more »

theasdgamer
Guest

Women as conversationalists??? Sounds pretty bluepill if you ask me. Maybe Gatorade will take care of that for ya. If women want my attention, I make them earn it. That includes being interesting to talk to. My field experience since, tells me that once attempting conversation, which is defined by a mutual contribution to advancing thought provoking ideas, things(pussy) dry up. Your idea of convo sounds gay. KEEP IT LIGHT!! Playful is the name of the GAME! Playfulness is good, but too much is try hard. Make the girl work to keep your attention. I bail on boring pussy, no… Read more »

Cult-I-Vader
Guest
Cult-I-Vader

@Blaximus “”The ” women aren’t for conversation ” meme… Where are most of men that find the average woman incapable of decent conversation finding these brain dead-ish chicks? Under what circumstances? and… “Is it men expecting women to communicate like their buddies do?” Kind of opposing statements. The kind of conversation made with a woman must be “game-ish” or that convo is simply talking with a buddy. Women are actually great at conversation when they are being gamed and the man is in control. The content of their convo is not as important as maintaining elevation and dampness. This is… Read more »

Rudd
Guest
Rudd

Its interesting readin all the responses and Rollos essays but I reckon it all comes down to following or being aware of the 16 Commandments of Poon. If you follow these principles and act them out authentically reflecting your own personality and style you will not go wrong.

Its pretty much all you need to remember once you have digested all the Rollo and Manosphere wisdom.

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/the-sixteen-commandments-of-poon/

theasdgamer
Guest

@anon I’ve actually seen a few situations where men did (essentially) marry their moms. Result is never good. Mom was extroverted and a brilliant hostess and a scintillating conversationalist and was loved by all who knew her. A girly girl, but not particularly pretty, although, when I was a boy, I thought that she was beautiful. (I took after her when it came to looks, which is better on me than on her.) She did have green eyes. Mom was easy prey for flatterers, which included my brother. Explains why he was her fav. Mrs. Gamer is introverted and doesn’t… Read more »

rugby11
Guest

“You will almost never find a girl of 22 who’d want to identify as a Trad-Con “Red Pill” woman – the incentives to do so simply don’t exist at this age. ” One thing about religion ive always struggled with was Morality and Female respect while seening behavior that was immoral but timed out in being spoken about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkqiWhAxy_Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUxrJk-X1oQ “This is especially salient when a man trades his ambitions (assuming he had them) for a relationship with her. This reverses the Burden of Performance to her and as a result she feels unloved because her concept of love is… Read more »

Cult-I-Vader
Guest
Cult-I-Vader

@theasdgamer “”Women as conversationalists???… “Maybe Gatorade will take care of that for ya. If women want my attention, I make them earn it. That includes being interesting to talk to.” My field experience since, tells me that once attempting conversation, which is defined by a mutual contribution to advancing thought provoking ideas, things(pussy) dry up. “Your idea of convo sounds gay.”” Actually taking a chick’s conversation as serious, in either content or context, sounds pretty gay to me. Pretty strange responses from a man. Putting another man down on a forum such as this reveals ones own weakness. You are… Read more »

DisgruntledEarthling
Guest
DisgruntledEarthling

@Blaximus The ” women aren’t for conversation ” meme… Well, I may have been exaggerating a bit in my post. Some of them actually are able to converse, like my young SB who is Sudanese and see’s a large part of the world through a red-pill lens. But I’m careful to wrap these conversations in something like a slap on the ass, a twirl, or a little dance in the kitchen. It’s like she’s able to grasp the concepts but also needs that little spike to reassure her I’m not turning into a dull dickless man. On the other handle,… Read more »

theasdgamer
Guest

Women appear brain dead only if they are not into you. I run into women who are interesting to talk to but who aren’t into me. And I run into women who are dull, but who are into me. And I run into women who are interesting to talk to AND who are into me. So, my experience doesn’t support your statement. I think that you are too focused on getting the fuck because you are so damn thirsty. (In my case, I game without trying if I’m not being analytical and am just looking to have a good time.)… Read more »

theasdgamer
Guest

Well, I may have been exaggerating a bit in my post. Some of them actually are able to converse, like my young SB who is Sudanese and see’s a large part of the world through a red-pill lens. But I’m careful to wrap these conversations in something like a slap on the ass, a twirl, or a little dance in the kitchen.

Yeah, didn’t we used to call that “changing it up”? That’s how you do it.

Cult-I-Vader
Guest
Cult-I-Vader

@theasdgamer

Oh, I just noticed from your last comment…

You’re married!!! LOL

Keep conversing with your gal…

Kind of counter to redpill living if you ask me. I do not see the point I guess. Commanding ones life, instead of commanding a wife, sounds so much more fun.

Never been hitched at mid 60’s and never will. Raised 3 kids by 2 carriers. So you got me pinned as beta do ya….good luck.

That’s enough banter, or is it convo, for this grand morning.

Victor Hubdyke
Guest
Victor Hubdyke

> This is one of the few times I’ve seen the subject of women at/over 50 even referenced.
>
> I’ve thought of it as the second wall.

Women talk about becoming invisible when they get older. 50 is the event horizon.

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

Wow… So many odd comments today .. Come on boyos! Sri – “There are no red pilled women. ” Haha. They are all red pilled. Hypergamy doesn’t care remember? They feel the truths then invent thoughts and meaning to hang on em. You can’t dog logic them you can only change how they feel. Cult I Beta ” Mastery is displayed through action not conversation.” Conversation is also action. Blax/Palma. “My experiences are vastly different ” Alphas have veeeery different reference experiences. When YOU are exceptional you draw in/bring out those who are also exceptional. I’ve met some astonishingly beautiful… Read more »

theasdgamer
Guest

When you converse with a (potential or actual) love interest, you have to engage both her mind and her hindbrain…it’s like having a convo with two people.

Cult-I-Vader
Guest
Cult-I-Vader

One last comment before hitting the field

@theasdgamer

“”I think that you are too focused on getting the fuck because you are so damn thirsty.””

I’ve already got the fuck, dude. Gaming for fucks takes no time. There was never “conversation” to get there.

Twice you made this statement. The fact you are so quick to make such an assessment is revealing of your own agenda. I have no need to defend or counter attack such nonsense

I do not know this thirst you speak of. Perhaps you have more experience with the thirst…

theasdgamer
Guest

You’re married!!! LOL

Keep conversing with your gal…

You only fuck mutes?

Kind of counter to redpill living if you ask me. I do not see the point I guess. Commanding ones life, instead of commanding a wife, sounds so much more fun.

different strokes…

walawala
Guest
walawala

Here’s the Red Pill truth every guy needs to understand: Women love a man who has his own dream, does his own thing: Platinum Rule… But then when it becomes clear to her that this same guy is doing this FOR her—to support the family, to please her, to make a living….slowly the idea of “provider” creeps into her psyche prompting her hamster to start second-guessing her initial attraction. “He’s trying too hard”= loss of attraction. She then seeks someone of higher value who tends to her “needs”= hypergamy. Understanding this and every thing a guy does MUST be because… Read more »

rugby11
Guest

Cult-I-Vader
“Laughing and play are the lubricant.”
Gold

Cult-I-Vader
Guest
Cult-I-Vader

and finally… Sentient reveals also, the need to put down commenters, even redefining ones handle, in order to elevate oneself. BTW, women do not get wet by a man putting down another man. A man who must make comparisons with other men to seek points is clearly interpreted as weak and inconsequential to women. Cult I Beta ” Mastery is displayed through action not conversation.” Conversation is also action. NO. Conversation is NOT action. Thats some new age “everything is everything” BS. Action is movement. Physical movement. Keep sitting at your desk or barstool I,ve got physical work to act… Read more »

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

Well, that deteriorated rather quickly.

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

Walawala

Cosign. If one owns a dog, he shouldn’t ever put the leash on himself and expect the dog to walk him, while expecting the dog to recognize and appreciate the motive behind the gesture.

DisgruntledEarthling
Guest
DisgruntledEarthling

When you converse with a (potential or actual) love interest, you have to engage both her mind and her hindbrain…it’s like having a convo with two people.

Wise words! Wish I new that 30 years ago.

theasdgamer
Guest

Conversation is NOT action.

Action around women can be nonverbal communication.

Attractive nonverbal communication:

Kino. Dancing with girls. Lasering. Triangulation. Lifting a girl in the air. Swatting her butt. Getting in her grill. Walking tall with a spring in your step. Bear hugs. Kisses. Confident expressions. Amused mastery smiles. Cocky grins.

Unattractive nonverbal communication:

Slouching. A frame hugs. Staring at a girl. Feather touches. Confused and fearful expressions. Queasy smiles.

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

Sentient

Understanding the power of conversation seems to be understood by puas seeking a ons or fast lay, but in the larger application business to miss that conversation+action coupled with understanding catonese is an unbeatable combination. Like an air/land/sea military assault.

Incubus_Rising
Guest
Incubus_Rising

“Actually the “dumb blonde” meme has gone the way of the dodo… Our era has made beauty such a store of wealth, scratch an 8 or 9 and, outside of pockets like university, you will find an incredibly well travelled, well read and often accomplished to a degree in an arts or other field, woman.” That’s just projection. If she passes your boner test, then you can project anything on her. When she has perky tities, to pseudo-intellectual man she will sound intelligent, a blue balled beta will think of her as Unicorn and a Man with options will see… Read more »

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

Sex dolls??????

😂😂😂😂😂

Cycling Cowboy
Guest
Cycling Cowboy

Waffles I’m sort of in the same boat and apply specific strategies to filter out the more hypergamous. I’m in my late 50s, with a career that provides an income that is a little more than half the national average, but I’m a good saver and so far, a good investor. My net worth puts me in the top 20% of wealth assets….and I deliberately disguise it. I want a good retirement and will not split it. I live in a modest house in a modest neighborhood and drive a 2006 Honda Accord. These make for great filters. Sadly, I’ve… Read more »

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

Okay, I listened to the tfm portion.

Poor guy.

He’s peddling something to angry males some how. It’s not based on rational reaction to a nature of women. Maybe some guys project into women, no doubt, but tfm is into painting all men with the monkey shit smeared brush. Sounds like sour grapes ( a lifetime worth ) to me.

Less sour, more knowledge and ability.

Not Born This Morning
Guest
Not Born This Morning

Excellent post. I’ve bitched in the past about how a lot of this is repetitive. But, I admit my bitching has more to do with my difficulty in swallowing the reality of all this and my anger over it is very apparent. Your writings provide excellent “refreshers” with new angels of insight. My wife loves to watch “The Bachelor” and “The Bachelorette”. I’ve been watching it with her for years and have become extremely quick and accurate at predicting exactly what will happen as the show progresses throughout the season. Although the show involves people in a fish bowl who… Read more »

macgile
Guest
macgile

DisgruntledEarthling

you can develop, I do not understand and that seems important to me

Thank’s

Incubus_Rising
Guest
Incubus_Rising

I don’t agree with TFM regarding sex dolls, but I don’t judge him for the choices he has made in his life. But credit where credit is due, his point that a man will project his “ideal” on a woman is spot on. It is blue pill trait. That is why it is important to make something clear about “conversation” …. it is required to seduce a women. A woman wants to be stimulated by conversation and the man must feed her hamster. But a Man does not need conversation with a woman to be aroused. Just because a fat… Read more »

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

Conversation is required for more than just seducing/banging women.

Unless a man is looking forward to a future life festooned with sex dolls. One is not absolved from his responsibility to not ” project ” shit on women or anyone else for that matter.

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

Cult I

“I,ve got physical work to act on this morning. ”

Pick up some washers while your out… Them sinks ain’t fixin themselves.

Btw – those easily tooled will be tooled.

I bet you have a very clean room.

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

Oh, and btw I do judge tfm yapping about sex dolls because he is judgemental himself. Judge not….etc. Etc.

What does it do in advancement of red pill/intersexual dynamic understanding to talk about sex spoken with respect to men projecting? I got his intent, but I don’t cosign guys that way they’re trying to help me cosigning their misunderstanding or laziness or lack of internal vision and fortitude.

O/t

Why does Donovan always look like he’s afraid someone is sneaking up behind him?😁

Incubus_Rising
Guest
Incubus_Rising

Men who do not make themselves their own MPO rely on projecting shit on women or “things”.

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

Incubus

“That’s just projection. ”

How? Evidence of accomplishments is evidence.

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

Jeezussssss….. Spellchecker.

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

Incubus

“But a Man does not need conversation with a woman to be aroused.”

Well you don’t need your balls played with either, but it is nice…

“Just because a fat land whale is “well travelled, well read and often accomplished to a degree in an arts or other field” it will not make me want to bang her.”

What part of 8/9 don’t you understand? Oh wait!!! There is the projection you speak of!

Incubus_Rising
Guest
Incubus_Rising

@Sentient:

So you are saying (opps …Cathy Newman) that to bang a HB 8/9 you need her to have good conversation skills? And if she does not, you will next her?

theasdgamer
Guest

So you are saying (opps …Cathy Newman) that to bang a HB 8/9 you need her to have good conversation skills? And if she does not, you will next her?

Pardon me if I jump in here…yeah, if pussy is dull…Next!

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

“So you are saying (opps …Cathy Newman) that to bang a HB 8/9 you need her to have good conversation skills? And if she does not, you will next her?”

Not at all.

Read in context. It’s better that way…

Incubus_Rising
Guest
Incubus_Rising

@Blax:

Not asking you to co-sign anything. Neither do I agree with everything TFM says, that is why I mentioned the one minute portion of the video on “projection”.

Donovan should have just shut the fuck up during that segment. Rollo was very dignified as usual, but Donovan came across as a thirsty simp.

Not Born This Morning
Guest
Not Born This Morning

“This is when she does the self-conditioning of turning her necessity into a virtue.” No matter how hard the FI attempts to promote lies about what men “should” desire or accept, virtue from a mans perspective will always reside with the young virgin. Regardless of culture and technological progress, the young unadulterated hot virgin will always be the most desirable to all alphas and betas…..and it will always be the most desired personal state a woman prefers for herself. This is why women hide their indiscretions and shame men for inquiring their n count. The FIs prevailing MO is to… Read more »

Fact
Guest
Fact

“…mostly overvalued evaluation of their SMV…”

This. In era of dating apps, even women who are over 40 y/o and 40 lbs overweight get pedestalized by attention from thirsty beta orbiters who will fuck anything with tits.

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader

Palmasailor This is one of the few times I’ve seen the subject of women at/over 50 even referenced. There’s a real split visible some places. In the US you can see women over 40 and even over 50 who still look pretty good, but only in areas where there’s a lot of money (gyms, trainers, plastic surgeons, etc.) so places like DC, NYC, Miami, Chicago, Dallas, L.A., Seattle, etc. These women are a distinct minority, who are really working hard at their cougarness. All the rest of the old girls tend to become invisible over 50. There have been a… Read more »

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

On older women

“These women are a distinct minority, ”

To general population sure, but in their “sorority” no. Birds of a feather run together. Most are not single though, and if they are single they are most likely the one who was left for hotter tighter younger. And they get it.

rugby11
Guest

“Men who do not make themselves their own MPO rely on projecting shit on women or “things”.”
I’ve done this
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OdtDeZZ4RPk
Companionship or Motherhood

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader

Blaximus If one owns a dog, he shouldn’t ever put the leash on himself and expect the dog to walk him, while expecting the dog to recognize and appreciate the motive behind the gesture. Some people in this coffee shop are looking at me because I just burst out laughing. Anyway. Lurkers, did Blax just compare women to dogs? Yep. Yes he did. For good reason. The better dog-training manuals both on dead tree and online make it clear that the dog won’t ever learn to speak human, so humans must learn to speak dog. Yes, a dog can learn… Read more »

Cult-I-Vader
Guest
Cult-I-Vader

@sentient

this is the best you got. after 3 times it still baffles me.

“I bet you have a very clean room”

If you call a shack in the mountains a “room”

and it gets cleaned when I have one of the ladies over…as well as other “plumbing” chores.

The rooms they keep for my visits are spotless.

I don’t post to respond to internet tantrums with one who does not know me nor I them.

Break over. Next….

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader

NBTM No matter how hard the FI attempts to promote lies about what men “should” desire or accept, virtue from a mans perspective will always reside with the young virgin. That reminds me, some churchgoing blogger named Lori Alexander put up a simple posting that observed “Men prefer debt-free virgins with no tattoos” and the churchlady-sphere has gone off like a Roman candle. A whole busload of girl-bloggers have taken “men prefer…” and decoded it to mean “God loves only…”, then run down their own private Idaho rabbit trail. Pedestalizing men have mewled in agreement. Not just Shiela Gregoire, but… Read more »

rugby11
Guest

Alright that bring a up a good point AR church and sex are explressed and communicated at and for women. One of the harsh reality’s that hurts still is knowing that women can’t have your best interest at heart. Their wants and desires are selfish in the 80/20 ratio as well as alpha banging and beta waiting. What can dig deeper from that is attempting to communicate this as an observation in a church of all places. It’s the worst way and time to bring up human biology. A huge portion of my life was attempting to integrate the truth… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader

@anon

I’ve also seen men marry their own mom, with poor to bad results. More insidiously, I’ve seen normal girls become “mom” not just to the sprog(s) but to everyone in the house. That requires some active pushback to correct, but most men don’t see that coming because nobody ever warned them.

Not Born This Morning
Guest
Not Born This Morning

“When men get lazy women actually feel discarded. The pain and the love is real – it isn’t so simple as jaded men think.. that women are blood thirsty gold digging monsters. The female design feels unloved and devalued when her man is not on fire for his own life..” What this really says….”Attention all red pill beta boys….(yes it’s an oxymoron) you have to work your provisioning ass off for me because it’s your burden of performance, it’s for me you understand, it’s your burden of performance that I own, I own your performance for me, you’re my slave,… Read more »

Incubus_Rising
Guest
Incubus_Rising

@Rugby:

“Their wants and desires are selfish in the 80/20 ratio as well as alpha banging and beta waiting.”

Didn’t you get the memo, nobody is struggling with “desire sex”. 80/20 is a sham. As long as “you are getting some” its fine, and if you are not getting any you are a “44 year old, 5 foot three, pot bellied, balding Indian currycell, sucks to be you. The manosphere is obsolete and not needed anymore.

Rant over.

RichardP
Guest
RichardP

The female design feels unloved and devalued when her man is not on fire for his own life. Exactly why I argue against the insistent focus in the christian manosphere on the word “submit”. Nowhere in the Bible does God say a wife should submit to her husband. The truth is that God created Eve to help Adam, a wife to help her husband. Who is the help and who is the helped is determined by who gives the instructions, and who carries them out. The help, by definition, is the one who carries out the will / instructions of… Read more »

447
Guest
447

As usual – very interesting article. Many comments on hypergamy etc. … Rollo wondered about the hypothetical endgame of MGTOW. My take from passively reading and watching some of their videos: They dance around the elephant in the room all the time (and black pill guys even more so) : If you share their premises for a moment and think it through, there is only one logical solution –> simply force women to do the right thing for everybody, aka just force them to mate to beta, regular stable guys. And they are DEADLY afraid of that conclusion. Fun fact:… Read more »

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

447

“Quite ironic, really, if you think about it.”

There is no “winning” against hypergamy. It’s a win win strategy for women.

Not Born This Morning
Guest
Not Born This Morning

MGTOW manifests the fact that a notable and growing number (both in quantity and individual size) of women in the culture are completely undesirable to ANY man. Earlier in the devolution and disintegration of this culture it was generally accepted that “there is someone for everyone”. This is no longer the case as women in general all the way up and down the SMV scale have taken themselves down a notch or two. The entire female population of this culture is shifted down in this context and the results are not hard to predict. Men of any culture past present… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
Guest
Not Born This Morning

“I’m a psychotherapist”

….Well… FUCK YOU!

Say it like Ron White… “WELL FUCK YOU!”

So, you’re a psychotherapist… a psycho… the …. rapist.

Quite literally a psychological rapist!

God how I relish the days when battles were fought and won with clubs, whips and swords instead of squabbling with words. Those were the days when battles were really fought and won. Today, no battles are really fought so all are losers!!!

Not Born This Morning
Guest
Not Born This Morning

“Again, this is a perfect illustration of the differences in the concepts men and women each independently hold when it comes to love. Men love Idealistically, women love Opportunistically and this quote spells this out in no uncertain terms – in fact it’s so ironic I’m not sure the woman relating this to me even realizes what she’s doing. Women intimately associate a man’s ambitiousness, his drive for mastery and power, his want for dominance, with her Opportunistic concept of love. She’s correct here, when men get lazy women feel discarded. However, this is because a man contenting himself with… Read more »

Orson
Guest
Orson

“Aryan Blindboy July 23, 2018 at 11:20 pm “The female design feels unloved and devalued when her man is not on fire for his own life..” – ya – The withdrawal of the host’s vigor is detrimental, even fatal to the parasite. MGTOW.” Amen! Pure host-parasite dynamic! It’s in the parasites’ best interest for the host to thrive on his burden of performance! If the host becomes too weak or ill he can’t provide anymore nutrients to the parasite! The parasite has contributed to his downfall with it’s demands and now that the host is too weak and dying it… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
Guest
Not Born This Morning

So many comments echo from far in the past. My older sister about 1983, “Mom, why is everything made for 17 year olds?” She was in her mid twenties. I was 21 and KNEW her question could only refer to 17 year old females, because “everything” sure as hell was not and is not “made for” 17 year old males.

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

Meanwhile…

“Clare Bronfman, 39; Kathy Russell, 60; Lauren Salzman, 42; and Nancy Salzman, 64, were arrested Tuesday on a superseding indictment charging them with racketeering conspiracy.”

https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2018/07/24/seagrams-nxivm-bronfman-russell-salzman/

Not Born This Morning
Guest
Not Born This Morning

Ambition, ambition and more ambition. Get out there and man up. Make your mark. Gotta have ambition boy. Burden of performance. Rat on a wheel. The whole culture is built on “ambition”. But for what, other than consumption, materialistic self indulgence. Give them an inch and they will take a mile. Real accomplishments are meaningless to hypergamy without the trappings of materialism. On and on it spirals. And this is in a culture where the “poor” are all provided for regardless of “ambition”. Ambition – consumption – acquisition – debt – slavery, The American Dream. The perfect education. The perfect… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader

Rollo
But he’s been taught to sacrifice EVERYTHING to keep the relationship “healthy”.

Especially the churchgoing men who are taught “Love endures all things” therefore he has to endure his wife’s bad behavior without complaint or correction, for the rest of his life.

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

… 4 mins

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

I disagree NBTM.

Hypergamy isn’t about ” money ” or ” things ” as much as one may think.

You can win while being broke as fuck.

The Lone Planet
Guest
The Lone Planet

Win?

Win what?

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

Win at life.

People follow other’s plans in life so much that they can’t recognize when the are actually winning.

Winning = Not Losing.

Winning = Breathing and mobile.

Winning = personal progress/progression.

Winning = freedom from mental tribulation.

etc.

1 2 3 5