The Burden of Performance


performance

 

From Love Story:

Men are expected to perform. To be successful, to get the girl, to live a good life, men must do. Whether it’s riding wheelies down the street on your bicycle to get that cute girl’s attention or to get a doctorate degree to ensure your personal success and your future family’s, Men must perform. Women’s arousal, attraction, desire and love are rooted in that conditional performance. The degree to which that performance meets or exceeds expectations is certainly subjective, and the ease with which you can perform is also an issue, but perform you must.

One of the most fundamental misconceptions plugged-in men have with regard to their intersexual relations with women is the issue of performance. Back in late March of this year I read an interesting article from Roosh, Men are nothing more than clowns to the modern woman and it struck me that although I certainly agreed with him in the context he presented it, there was more to the ‘entertainment’ factor than simple amusement on the part of women.

Women don’t seek out comfort or stability in men anymore—they seek entertainment. They seek distraction. They seek hedonistic pleasure. This is why provider men (beta males) are so hopelessly failing today to secure the commitment of beautiful women in their prime, and this is why even lesser alpha males fail to enter relationships with women beyond a few bangs. Once the entertainment or novelty you provide her declines—and it inevitably will—she moves on to something or someone else. In essence, the only way you can keep a girl is if you adopt the mentality of a soap opera writer, adding a cliffhanger to the end of each episode that keeps a woman interested when being a good man no longer does.

After reading this I tried to imagine myself being a recently unplugged man or a guy just coming to terms with the uncomfortable truths of the red pill and learning that all of the comforting “just be yourself and the right girl will come along” rhetoric everyone convinced me of had been replaced by a disingenuous need to transform oneself into a cartoon character in order to hold the attentions of an average girl.

That’s kind of depressing, especially when you consider the overwhelming effort and personal insight necessary in realizing red pill awareness. Roosh later tempered this with How to be a good clown and Clown Game vs. Good Man Game, and although he clarifies things well in Game terms, the root of the frustration most guys will have with the ‘clown factor’ is that, in these terms and in this context, their performance isn’t who they are.

In this environment it’s easy to see why the MGTOW option seems like an understandable recourse for red pill men. It’s a very seductive temptation to think that a man can simply remove himself from the performance equation with regards to women. I’ll touch on this later, but what’s important here is understanding the performance game men are necessarily born into. Like it or not, play it or not, as a man you will always be evaluated on your performance (or the perception of it).

I think what trips a lot of men up early in their red pill transformation is sort of a sense of indignation towards women that they should have to “be someone they’re not” and play a character role that simply isn’t who they are in order to hold a woman’s interest. I covered this idea in Have A Look and developed how women are like casting agents when it comes to the men they hope will entertain them.

This was really about a sexual context when I went into it, but as I read Roosh’s original article I began to consider that women’s “character” role they expect men to perform changes as their own phases of maturity dictates and their SMV can realistically demand for that phase. In other words the “characters” they want performed in their Party Years will be different than the ones they want after their Epiphany Phase, which may be different than the character they want for their mid-life years.

How realistic it is for men to be that character becomes less and less relevant as women are socialized to expect disappointment from men actually living up to the characters they’re conditioned to believe they should realistically be entitled to at various stages of their maturity.

Living Up

Right about now I’m sure various male readers are thinking, “fuck this, I’m gonna be who I am and any girl who can’t appreciate me for me is low quality anyway.” This will probably piss you off, but this is exactly the blue pill mentality most ‘just be yourself‘ Betas adopt for themselves.

It’s actually a law of power to despise what you can’t have, and deductively it makes sense, but the fact still remains, as a man you will always be evaluated by your performance. So even with a ‘fuck it, I’ll just be me’ mindset you’re still being evaluated on how well ‘you are just you’.

The simple fact is that you must actually be your performance – it must be internalized. In truth, you already are that performance whether you dictate and direct that, or you think you can forget it and hope your natural, undirected performance will be appreciated by women (and others), but regardless, women will filter for hypergamous optimization based on how well you align with what they believe they are entitled to in a man in the context of their own perception of their SMV.

Looks, talent, tangible benefits and other core prerequisites may change depending on the individual woman, but to be a man is to perform. Even if you’re a self-defined man going his own way who enjoys escorts to fulfill his needs, you still need to perform in order to earn the money to enjoy them.

It Doesn’t Get Easier, You Get Better

For Men, there is no true rest from performance. To believe so is to believe in women’s mythical capacity for a higher form of empathy which would perdispose them to overriding their innate hypergamous filtering based on performance.

Women will never have the same requisites of performance for themselves for which they expect men to maintain of themselves. Hypergamy demands a constant, subliminal reconfirmation of a man’s worthiness of her commitment to him, so there is never a parallel of experience.

Women will claim men “require” they meet some physical standard (i.e. performance) and while generally true, this is still a performance standard men have of women, not one they hold for themselves. There simply is no reciprocal dynamic or prequalification of performance for women, and in fact for a man to even voice the idea that he might qualify a woman for his intimacy he’s characterized as judgmental and misogynistic.

Social conventions like this are established to ensure women’s hypergamous sexual strategy is the socially dominant one. Expecting a woman to perform for a man is an insult to her ‘prize status’ as an individual.

From a humanistic perspective there’s a want for a rational solution to this performance requirement, but as I’ve outlined in prior posts, appeals to women’s reason are no insulation against the subliminal influences of hypergamy.

I read many a ‘dating coach’ who’s approach is complete honesty and full disclosure in the hopes that a like-minded, rational woman will naturally appreciate a man’s forthrightness, but this presupposes a preexisting equal playing field where subliminal influences are overridden by mutual rationalism.

The real hope is that women will drop their innate hypergamous performance requisites in appreciation of this vulnerable, inadequate honesty.

What they sweep under the rug is that you cannot appeal to a woman’s reason or sentiment to genuinely forgive a deficit in a man’s performance. Love, reason, both demand a preexisting mutual appreciation in a common context, but neither love nor reason alleviate the necessity of performance for a man.

Women simply are not motivated to compromise hypergamy on their own accord. They will not be reasoned into accommodating a situation of mutual needs by overt means.

It is a Man’s capacity to perform and demonstrate (never explicate) higher value that motivates women to accommodate mutual needs in a relationship – whether that’s a same night lay or a 50 year marriage.

Demonstrating Higher Value

I get the impression that DHV tends to get a bad rap both from blue pill critics as well as red pill aware men. A lot of that gets wrapped up in technique and practice. It’s easy to dismiss this concept as posturing or bluster, but DHV, as a principle isn’t defined by egotistical measures or how well a guy can ‘showboat’ himself around women.

A lot of DHV is unintentional. In fact the best most genuine forms of DHV are exhibited when a Man doesn’t realize he’s actually performing in a way that demonstrate his higher value. This can be as simple as walking int a room in the right context or environment. Even humility can be DHV in the proper context.

What I’m driving at here is that after reading all of this you might think I’m saying you need to be superhuman to qualify for women’s performance standards, and again that’s kind of depressing – that’s not what I’m getting at. A woman’s performance standards are dependent on many varied contexts and according to the priorities she places on the type of character she finds both arousing and attractive and according to what her conditions dictate for her.

It’s not how you perform so much as that you perform. Ambition and personal drive to perform and be the best and most successful you you can be may have absolutely nothing to do with your intention of attracting a woman, but you are still performing and you will be evaluated on that performance.

DHV or DLV is performance whether intentional or not. You cannot remove yourself from this performance equation. You can cease to direct your part in this performance, but until you die you cannot exit the game.

 

 

 

214 comments

  1. Sorry, but that could maybe do with a re-write…it’s confusing and I’m no clearer now about what your main point is, or what I should do about it in practice, than I was at the start.

  2. As far as DHV goes, the rule tends to be; “Show, don’t tell.”
    Women get rather good at spotting a DHV’s and if they are interested will ask questions to gain information on a man’s value.
    If a woman isn’t asking you any questions, it tends to be an uphill battle for a man to perk her interest.
    A man’s “entertainment value” should be the last of his priorities and simply an added extra when all other things are in place.

    Ironically, (all things being equal) women’s “equality” and participation in the workplace means that men are expected to work harder than ever in order to create a point or two of higher value and SMV in order to appeal to women’s hypergamous instincts.

    I expect that the ongoing fallout will be more “Alpha fucks, beta bucks” with less commitment from Aphas to traditional relationship arrangements and/or marriage; more MGTOW from higher betas with red-pill awareness and even greater limits to options for low lying betas.

    The natural order of things is being turned on its head and it will not end well.

  3. “…the best most genuine forms of DHV are exhibited when a Man doesn’t realize he’s actually performing in a way that demonstrate his higher value.”

    I would add to this that the most effective ways of demonstrating DHV are when a man does not appear to be trying to DHV. The best thing a man can do with his time is focus on his own improvement. When a man focuses his life and energy in this manner he cannot help but to genuinely demonstrate his higher value to women. As a result, he will reap the woman (women) he is capable of attracting.

    What I don’t understand- and perhaps someone could explain it to me- is the need for all of the pejorative and depressing language (i.e. clowns) describing this phenomena. After all, has it really ever been different since the beginning of the world? Has there really every been a man who truly believed that he could “get the girl” based on “who he is deep down inside”? Perhaps I’ve been too thoroughly conditioned in the world as an arena for competition, but I cannot even fathom what people are trying to articulate with notions like “who he is deep down inside” if they are not talking about his performance in one manner or another.

    To the contrary, I think this state of the world should be celebrated. I love getting rewards for my hard work! If I receive a reward for something that I do not feel that I have earned then it feels cheap and worthless to me. And yes, I am discouraged when the world does not give me the rewards that I want, but this result just causes me to push harder to achieve that which I desire.

    I have recently been sleeping with this hot chick who is practically gagging for it. I am putting forth no effort into her pursuit other than I am trying to improve my own quality of life. The more I ignore her the more turned on she gets. Roosh is right. At some point the girl will eventually tire or I will become bored with her and the relationship will stop. She will go to the next guy in her line and I will go to the next girl in my line. Perhaps I am only seeing things from my current vantage point- 30 years old and on the rise with my SMV- but I think this is a very beautiful thing.

    And yes, I concede that this state of affairs is not conducive to a man who has convinced himself that he needs an LTR to be happy. LTR’s as a way of life will certainly become less and less common. But if the same man can change his expectations of what he wants out life and women, then I think he can learn to appreciate the situation for what it is, too.

  4. I think you’ve made an important point about DHVs. I never used these as a game technique (at least consciously), such as “dropping a DHV” selectively in a conversation, but I’ve come to recognize that being a high value man all around is what makes the difference. Once your entire life displays high value you’ll reveal your quality in un-self-conscious ways that attract women. It can’t be a try-hard gimmick.

    Regarding what Roosh wrote on “clown game” I think he’s right to an extent, particularly applied to women influenced by western culture. Their expectations are based on entertainment media, not values inculcated by their parents and grandparents. “Performing” for a California hottie in her early twenties is going to look different than a girl the same age in Russia or a late-20s woman in Poland. If men want to attract x,y,z girl, they should learn their audience and act accordingly.

  5. “I concede that this state of affairs is not conducive to a man who has convinced himself that he needs an LTR to be happy. LTR’s as a way of life will certainly become less and less common. But if the same man can change his expectations of what he wants out life and women, then I think he can learn to appreciate the situation for what it is, too.”

    In my opinion, traditional “marriage” in Western Countries, as far as men is concerned is fast becoming a suckers play.

    At bare minimum, 40% of marriages end in divorce (and a man’s subsequent asset rape via the courts); 20% of marriages are “unhappy” or dysfunctional with little if any sex and with partners staying together for the sake of the kids, in 10% one of the partners is cheating; leaving at best, 30% of traditional marriages where both partners are reasonably happy and making it work.

    I expect that those odds, as far as the prospects of men goes, will not be improving any time soon.

  6. Rollo – “You cannot remove yourself from this performance equation. You can cease to direct your part in this performance, but until you die you cannot exit the game.”

    True enough.

    But the choice to play, and how to play is entirely up to the individual. There are no binding rules to the game, no universal victory conditions, no guaranteed rewards or punishments. All of that can be defined by the individual player. That is a liberating realization.

  7. I think that the objection to clown game is a bit different from an aversion to performance.

    So I won’t have the attraction and love of a desirable woman just because of the sparkly shiny snow-flake uniqueness in me? That’s fine, I was never that naive.

    Muscles, confidence and economic means are what work? Well actually that’s great, it encourages us to be fitter, healthier, and more productive.

    So loyalty is highly likely to go unrewarded? (Relational Equity as Rollo would put it) And kindness, kindnesses and appreciation itself can cause her to appreciate me less? Ok, I’ll have to teach myself to be more selfish and less affectionate than came naturally to me, I can do that, don’t like it, can do it. (have done it, sure as hell works)

    But there’s another line to be crossed now (two actually) the clown line or the bad boy line. This is where we’re beyond being dissapointed about what modern woman isn’t or what we can’t have with her. This is where she beckons us to join in her sickness or be without her.

    The beast in her let loose, the shackles of society gone she’s no longer a prize driving men to be loyal, hard working and loving providers/producers/protectors. Well that’s fine, great if she was, she isn’t. But there SHOULD be a very serious response of disgust upon realizing the edge that a violent criminal or a perpetual light-hearted alcoholic frat-boy gets.

  8. A couple of points to this post:

    To a degree, a man can “be himself” and still be successful with women. The sheer nature of his care-free attitude, decisiveness and self-entitled demeanour will stand out to women who are all so accustomed to being surrounded by try-hard men acting supplicated and infatuated by female existence (especially if she is cute or hot). The problem lies in the hands of men who don’t truly believe in this approach – men who are pretty much living in vain hope that their relaxed interaction with women will reap rewards. No matter how much he attempts to convince him (or her) that “I am who I am”, if he places too much emphasis on the outcome dependence of losing her, he faces an uphill battle from the start.

    The second point is related to Rollo’s previous reference to the fact that “men are the true romantics, women are the opportunists”. Never a truer word spoken. Once women have seized on their opportunism, and the positive ego boost, provisioning and security feelings have fragmented, a man is no longer the appreciated asset that he was. That’s if he ever was appreciated.

    If you ever needed further proof, take a look at the below link:

    http://www.vinaywcmd.com/2014/08/3-years-of-happiness-lifetime-to-re.html

  9. I understand where he’s coming from. For those who are not naturally gregarious, putting on that performance can actually be draining, especially when you’re dealing with the below average conversationalist. What I think he needs to come to terms with is that many people are boring. Many people have no class, no social finesse, and really nothing to offer the group. I know he has his internet society to talk with, but finding the people in the larger world can be difficult. I’d invite him here for an intellectual vacation, but I seem to recall he had some beef about us or something…

  10. “…a disingenuous need to transform oneself into a cartoon character in order to hold the attentions of an average girl.”

    My first step toward unplugging, long before I even knew what the red pill was, was recognizing this behavior and refusing to engage in it. When women would get pouty about it, I would tell them “I don’t do the monkey dance.”

    Better to be alone with self-respect than without it.

  11. Promethean marriage will only become a suckers play for men who do not learn to display value, in particular a type of mystery by sticking to their path. Women will always want drama. It is life to them. You can create a type of high value drama for them that is enticing for them and fun for you. This is keeping control of the situation and being of high value. Or a man can delude himself by thinking there should never be drama and thus fall into the trap of her creating drama, because she will always want it. Women do not like to create drama, but they want to be a part of it. If we allow women to create the drama they will despise us. If we create the right drama AROUND OUR LIVES they will honor us and get their pants wet.

    Marriage done right is the highest form of pick-up. The game never ends. It is her job to keep you on your toes so you become a better man.

  12. Not really. The man who achieves does not get the girl. He gets the woman. That is to say that after she had her fun from age 18 to late 20’s she decides its time to marry and she chooses the man who has a pus on something profitable or she marries a guy who owns a business. The girl, that attractive(or even average) person with a high sex drive is only interested in good-looking men. I remember seeing this 6’4″” dutch guy glance at a girl in class for two hours. A couple days later they became a couple. What did he accomplish to get the girl? He had good genes. He didn’t work to get the girl. Young men look at this and then look at their fathers. Like i did. Father is a major partner at a firm. He worked himself and raised himself from the ground. What did he get? A fading carrossel rider? My mother lost her looks and health in her late 20s. Who has the most value? My father or the 20year Old dutch boy who never had a job? Thanks, but the only women the men who don’t look like scandinavian gods are post-walls “reformed” sluts. I’ll still to porn and weed.

  13. “A lot of DHV is unintentional. In fact the best most genuine forms of DHV are exhibited when a Man doesn’t realize he’s actually performing in a way that demonstrate his higher value.”

    A few years ago (pre-RP) I briefly dated a woman I had the Oneitis for. She talked a lot, which meant that I ended up ignoring her a lot. Occasionally she would apologize for trying to pick a fight, thank me for not taking the bait, and fuck me silly.

  14. Kate, the man who can illuminate a room is not women are seeking, speaking from What I’ve observed in my life so far, women are far more visually turned on that men. I’ve seen foreign students who were barely familiar with the language and they picked a lot of women. Women who are young select men via looks. Older women want money.

  15. @Plagio. Good post. Most of us who are not Scandinavian gods have come to the same conclusion. These guys can talk about game or you need to DHV all day but in the end if it comes down to working your ass off to get a kiss on the cheek while the 20% alphas can show up and destroy all your work with a glance then really what’s the point. You are not going to resent women knowing this is the situation? Or somehow your game can overcome the allure of the tall sexy man that your girl knows all the other women want? Not going to happen. I just have to ask you guys reading RM how you still find women as attractive as you once did when you didn’t know their true nature and still had those romantic fantasies. I honestly don’t respect them at all even knowing they can’t help it and it’s evolution blah blah. Sure you want to have sex but are the hoops worth it and in the end is the sex even worth it? There is so much danger and downside (potentially violent love triangles, unplanned children, emotional heartbreak, STD’s) and what is the upside? A “fulfilling” relationship with a woman who is always keeping you on your toes to push you to be a “better” man? Remember the term a better man is referring to you being a man more to HER liking. That’s all it means. Of course if your self worth is based on a woman’s evaluation of you like most men then that term would apply.

  16. “A few years ago (pre-RP) I briefly dated a woman I had the Oneitis for. She talked a lot, which meant that I ended up ignoring her a lot. Occasionally she would apologize for trying to pick a fight, thank me for not taking the bait, and fuck me silly.”

    I should point out here that I was totally oblivious to what was going on here, but I was at least smart enough to keep my mouth shut and roll with it. I was still very blue pill and thought that all those beta game tactics (full disclosure, sniper mentality, JBY, etc.) had finally paid off and bagged me The One. It ended ugly after a few months, but that’s a different story.

  17. Above all else a person has to relieve themselves of delusions and determine that the outcome and results they want are more important than what they have to go through to get traction toward getting them.

    ~Dan Kennedy

  18. “what is the upside? A “fulfilling” relationship with a woman who is always keeping you on your toes to push you to be a “better” man?”

    Hah! For all too many women these days; rather that pushing (in a positive way) or supporting their man to be a better man, they expect that a man is “ready made” and who’s main objective is to make HER “happy”.
    (Whatever the hell her being happy is).
    Hence older women (30+) looking for or holding out for a man with (enough) money.

  19. re: unintentional DHV. There is absolutely nothing wrong with practicing to make your DHV look unintentional. It is the same as working on making your sprezzatura seem natural.

    It is silly that the Looks guys, the Face boys, the Dudes that are so very into good looking men, you know what I mean, are still harping and peddling their bobble-head plastic figurines even on a post that is entirely about behavior.

  20. Aunt giggles makes the salient point that women prefer men within a 1-3 year difference up to 35 years of age which is exactly mirrored in marriage data.

    Marriage age data clearly shows that for the majority (90% +) women’s choices trump male choices.

    Men do the clown dance and women choose.

    “Sense of indignation towards women that they should have to be someone they’re not.”

    The indignatation is that the rewards for DHV are diminished as the marriage age rises and the cost of up maintaining DHV are exorbitantly high in today’s divorce culture.

  21. Ol’ Joe Rogan is an inspiring character in so many ways.

    Joe Rogan: Be The Hero of Your Own Movie

    Published on Apr 17, 2014
    If your life was a movie and it started now, what would the hero of your life’s movie do right now? Do those things and #GetOnnit.

    Tim Kennedy, Pro MMA : The Most Challenging Of All Resistance Comes From Within

    Published on Apr 15, 2014
    Tim Kennedy is currently the #8 ranked middleweight in the UFC. He is also one of the few fighters to simultaneously serve full-time in the United States Army while also fighting professionally.

    Andrew Craig Pro MMA: There’s Still Time For Greatness

    Published on Jan 30, 2014
    MMA Fighter and Onnit Pro Andrew Craig is living proof that it’s never too late to reach for greatness

  22. reminds me of truisms like “looks matter” or “doesn’t matter what you say but what you do”. Whether we like it or not, we will always be expected to perform. And we will.

  23. ‘Game’ is entirely dependent on other ‘gina-tingling’ variables that have nothing to do with game – it is *not* a proxy for attraction.

    So, all ‘game’ can conceivably do, is ‘maximize’ a man’s opportunities on a case by case basis(no gina tingle, no ‘game’ optimization opportunities).

    Game merely tries to indoctrinate males on how to establish psychological leverage. Ergo, for the vast majority of low (mating)status males, it is of negligible value.

    Take for instance some examples of pua lingo tossed around in the manosphere:

    The whole notion of ‘shit-testing’ or ‘DHV’s, as any kind of a fitness test.
    In order for a fitness test to be reliable, it must screen for ‘honest’ signals.

    And in order for a signal to be ‘honest’, it must entail high and differentiable costs while communicating some quantity of evolutionary/fitness value(thus, resisting falsification).

    This is why ‘shit-testing’ makes more sense in terms of fitness-handicapping – meaning that low-quality males will incur more ‘resistance’ than high-quality males(thereby helping to mediate frequencies of sexual success accordingly).
    But, it doesn’t make sense as a ‘test’, because it is so frequently indeterminate in any given interaction.

    It’s well known that females are reluctant to risk alienating high-quality males with a ‘shit-test'(of an obstinate variety) or require an absurd amount of DHVs from them to keep them around.
    In these cases, any affected/token disinterest on a female’s part would be very transparent, and her receptivity would come through loud and clear(in essence, her affectations would resemble that of playful ‘flirting’ – quite different from a conventional shit test connotation).

    So the problem with the shit-test-as-a-fitness-test, theory or DHV (as I understand it, most are just behavior modifications), is that it fails to specify what quantities of evolutionary value a shit-test is effective in screening for(in a way that eliminates obvious confounders).

    Is it a question of energetic investment?

    If so, then the successful negotiation of these ‘tests’ should be strongly mediated by differential investment in a ‘particular’ female(and thus begs the question of why ‘stalking’ is not seen as a fitness display).

    Or, is it ‘wit’, or general sociality?

    If so, then this theory likewise begs for a more rigorous test methodology to support it(esp given that shit-testing is not obviously suited to screening for sociality in a way that incurs enough cost to justify its
    relative scrutiny).

    It occurs, that shit-testing is not a test at all, but is either a strategic bluff in embellishing female sexual value(in context of a male approach).
    Or, an expression of resentment in being entangled in a LTR, which poses obvious trade-offs in short-term goals(ie. she resents having a long-term mate who ‘tingles’ her less than other prospective mates). One could argue that if you were displaying sufficient indications of genetic quality, she would have made for more agreeable company.

    Thus, I believe that many cases where a husband purports to be successfully ‘gaming’ his wife, is nothing more than a spurious observation in ego validation(ie. after a period of anxiety and ambivalence over conflicting, time-variant, evolutionary concerns, *she* makes a value-judgment to preserve his long-term investment at the cost of *obvious* extrapair mating/carousel riding).

    A man who is displaying sufficient value(for example, through genetic quality indicated in physical attractiveness), will not be hindered/handicapped by ‘shit-testing’ or have a tiresome need to implement ‘mental DHV gymnastics’ in order to get the girl.

    So, it goes to show you that ‘shit-testing’ or the more ‘DHVs’ you have to show, are all communicating something about a male’s disposability(in a relationship), or is an affectation for the purpose of embellishing a female’s sexual value(in the context of an approach), or an outright repudiation(again, in the context of an approach).

    And this all underscores my main issue with game, in that it has an unfortunate tendency to circulate fashionable *nonsense*, at the expense of knowledge(even amongst those in the manosphere who, I would think, should know better).

    I mean, if you want to appreciate the subtleties of probability and statistics, should you necessarily inquire upon someone who won the lottery?

    Of course not!

    Likewise, if one wants to appreciate behavioral phenomenon with a basis in sexual evolution, don’t inquire upon some PUA, but rather make inquiries into a synthesis of scientific basis(like honest signalling theory, zoology, sexual evolution, etc).

  24. @Siirtyrion. Yet another great post. Do you have your own blog? I always have laughed when pua’s talk about shit testing as being built into a woman’s psychology and act like women apply it to all males equally and it’s just something you have to put up with and overcome with your “game”. If I think for a second a woman might be shit testing me I ignore her and move on. But no you shouldn’t do that you should give her what she wants and peacock even harder! No thanks.

  25. “It is a Man’s capacity to perform and demonstrate (never explicate) higher value that motivates women to accommodate mutual needs in a relationship – whether that’s a same night lay or a 50 year marriage.”

    I’m living proof of this. From the time I was fourteen, I knew what I wanted to do. We had a small family business that I was going to build into a big family business. And I did. When I became CEO at 26, there were 40 competitors in our market; now there are 3. We do tens of millions in sales. I cannot think of a goal I have ever set for myself, personally or professionally, that I have not attained.

    I married at 30 to a girl I thought was my life mate. We had four kids by 38, a big house, swimming pool, vacations, big cars; the whole package. Then a funny thing happened. As I approached 50, I started asking myself, “What’s left?” Where am I going and why should I go there? I started hating my work, I fight the same battles over and over; what’s the point? I started a new business and built it into a multi-million dollar division of my company in a couple years. I made sales calls and closed accounts that used to leave me high and jazzed, now: Nothing. Emptiness. Almost sadness. I didn’t know why. Mid-life crisis? Depression? Me, depressed … no way, can’t be, anyone else, but not me.

    I’m not a big talker about my feelings to my spouse, but I could not figure this out so I confided. Big mistake. Mr. No Doubts who always knew what to do, where to go and how to get there was suddenly lost. I thought that after all those years when I helped her through postpartum blues and depression and anxiety, she would understand and help me. It’s only fair, right? Isn’t that what life mates do? Mine missed that chapter of the life mate’s manual. In fact, the little bit of support I used to have was withdrawn. Fast forward a year: She cheated, I left and now I’m having my clock cleaned by lawyers and the woman I thought I knew.

    Mr. Tomassi has helped me understand what happened. There is no appreciation, no loyalty, no love from women in the way men expect it. Sad but true. Who needs a life of what have you done for me lately. I’m changing my will so that if my sons get married, they get nothing from my estate. I told this to a bunch of guys I was having a beer with and they were, each and every one, horrified. I do not care. I refuse to give the remaining fruits of my life’s labor to the next generation of ungrateful women.

  26. YKW knows this perfectly well. Increased male effort for decreased material reward is very economically sensible if you’re in the elite. It’s not really about relationships it’s about tinkering with intergender relationships and family structures for the benefits of bankers.

  27. @ johnycomelately:

    “Aunt giggles makes the salient point that women prefer men within a 1-3 year difference up to 35 years of age which is exactly mirrored in marriage data.

    “Marriage age data clearly shows that for the majority (90% +) women’s choices trump male choices.

    “Men do the clown dance and women choose.”
    ______________________________

    Giggles doesn’t know it, but the post you’re referring to and the evidence she uses are proof positive of Alpha Fux, Beta Bux.

    Here’s what Giggles said in her post:

    “Female preferences trump male preferences. That is because men display and women select in mating. Women incur much higher mating costs than men do, so selectivity is crucial to survival of offspring (and oneself). Males compete for the honor. The future of homo sap would not be very promising if women of all ages lusted after college sophomores.”

    What Giggles forgets, or maybe is just ignoring, is that as women age, they aren’t selecting men for “lust”. A 30 year old woman isn’t “lusting” after the 31 year old guy with the decent job. She’s selecting for provider potential, not physical attributes. She DOES, however, “lust” after men with physical attributes.

    So if the evidence Giggles is poring over matches what is going on in the marriage data, then what’s really being measured here isn’t mating. It’s PAIRING. It’s women selecting for hotness while younger; then selecting for provisioning ability when older.

  28. Men and women make the choice to lock each other down for very very different reasons.

    Men: for sex.

    Women: for provisioning.

  29. I think DHV is key. I’ve done it and had it said to me several times in ways I didn’t expect at the time. Always seemed silly to harp on these things, but that’s what chicks dig:

    DHV in watching me talk on the phone at work. “It was sexy.”

    DHV in how people knew me at bar and all approached me to say “hi” and not other way around.

    DHV in the type of watch I wore, car I drove, clothes I wore.

    DHV in that I knew something about a country someone visited or a few words in their language.

    DHV in the way I walked.

    DHV in that I was a comfortable public speaker.

    DHV in that I knew how to fix something on my car or helped solve a simple problem with advice for a woman.

    DHV in that I dumped a chick.

  30. @Siirtyrion, the short version is…

    A woman that has a high interest level (IL) in a guy has no need (and less motivation) to engage in behaviors that would compromise her status with him. Women of all ILs will shit test, and men will pass or fail accordingly, but a test is more easily recognizable when you consider the context in which they’re delivered.

    The problem with your analysis is still that the phenomenon of “shit testing” does in fact exist. We can chew the fat over why it exists, but the dynamic is undeniably observable.

    Women’s shit testing is a psychologically evolved, hard-wired survival mechanism. Women will shit test men as autonomously and subconsciously as a men will stare at a woman’s big boobs. They cannot help it, and often enough, just like men staring at a nice rack or a great ass, even when they’re self-aware of doing it they’ll still do it. Men want to verify sexual availability to the same degree women want to verify a masculine dominance / confidence.

    I think the disconnect here is what you’ve described before, the trade-off between genetic and investment benefits. While it’s currently the trend to believe women are more capable of providing for their own long term security needs, you’re simply not going to ‘un-evolve’ in the short span since the sexual revolution the millennia of psychological firmware that prompts women to test men for fitness of both genetic preselection and provisioning preselection.

    This is the primary reason feminism / equalism will fall flat – you won’t socialize innate drives in both men and women into non-existence. For all of women’s (dubious) empowerment and supposed rising above the ‘social constructs’ of gender they still test men for fitness based on innate drives which contradict what that empowerment is supposed to mean to women.

    That testing may be about Alpha Fucks or Beta Bucks, but women’s constant drive for hypergamous optimization is an evolved ‘feature’ of their psyches.

  31. I’m curious about what are your arguments against MGTOW, because the way I see it, if you don’t want anything from women you surely can remove yourself from the equasion. There is absolutely no reason or need to perform for someone you don’t want anything from. If one comes to realization that pussy isn’t worth jumping through hoops, he can just leave the sexual market and focus on achieving goals and performing in different fields, like job and hobby, which provide much more certain gratification. How would you adress that, Rollo?

  32. @Zenramid, I’m not necessarily against MGTOW, what I think most of them don’t consider is the degree to which they believe they’re exiting the game.

    To the best of my experience, the majority of MGTOW men I’ve encountered aren’t committed to a life of monastic self-development.

    They’re more about the idea of “fuck it, I’m not gonna play women’s games. I’m gonna go my own way and if a woman wants to engage with me great, if not, whatever…” Perhaps there are a few who forgo women altogether, but lets just say most I’ve known are at least open to engaging with women, even if just for sex.

    Maybe they use escorts, maybe they only involve themselves with women strictly on the terms of their choosing – I have a great respect for blogger Advocatus Diaboli who does just this.

    Even that mindset I don’t necessarily have an issue with, but unless you’re committed to the life of a self-concerned eunuch you’re going to engage with women and that will (even if marginally) always involve some sort of performance standard.

  33. “I would add to this that the most effective ways of demonstrating DHV are when a man does not appear to be trying to DHV. The best thing a man can do with his time is focus on his own improvement. When a man focuses his life and energy in this manner he cannot help but to genuinely demonstrate his higher value to women.”

    Focusing on his own improvement, as the primary objective, can emphasize aspects that this has in common with “making a woman his mission”.

    Having a mission in life that is separate from him, and also above him, maintains the focus on his higher value, as it is enhanced by his own improvement.
    .

    “Perhaps I’ve been too thoroughly conditioned in the world as an arena for competition, but I cannot even fathom what people are trying to articulate with notions like ‘who he is deep down inside’ if they are not talking about his performance in one manner or another.”

    “Who he is deep down inside” can be the fuzzy feeling that he should be perceived, now, as he would be, if he actually followed his potential / expressed his essence.

    It is the false equivalence that “knowing the path” and “walking the path” are somehow the same thing.
    .

    “The whole notion of ‘shit-testing’ or ‘DHV’s, as any kind of a fitness test. In order for a fitness test to be reliable, it must screen for ‘honest’ signals.”

    In order for such a fitness test to be reliable (in the way that women determine value), it is only necessary that it screen for the underlying attitudes that a woman (or her subconscious rodent) believes are honest signals.
    .

    “It’s well known that females are reluctant to risk alienating high-quality males with a ‘shit-test’ (of an obstinate variety) or require an absurd amount of DHVs from them to keep them around.”

    In addition (to avoidance of the risk of alienation), there is also no need to test for something that is being conclusively demonstrated. There is no need for her to question who will be in charge, when she is being walked around town on a leash while wearing a sparkly pink dog collar.

  34. I use this movie as an example often enough, but if you haven’t seen Blue Valentine I’d encourage every red pill aware man to check it out, and it should be required viewing for any blue pill guy who has any potential to unplug himself.

    This movie illustrates exactly this performance dynamic and the disconnect men experience when they’re conditioned to believe they can relax in their ambitions because women should love them for who they are.

  35. “Expecting a woman to perform for a man is an insult to her ‘prize status’ as an individual.”

    Which leads to the dynamic where women have less and less to offer, and “deserve” more and more for simply providing sex occasionally (which they don’t have to)

    Chris B:

    “Promethean marriage will only become a suckers play for men who do not learn to display value, in particular a type of mystery by sticking to their path. Women will always want drama. It is life to them. You can create a type of high value drama for them that is enticing for them and fun for you. This is keeping control of the situation and being of high value.

    Marriage done right is the highest form of pick-up. The game never ends. It is her job to keep you on your toes so you become a better man.”

    Every man in a relationship is on this curve:

    http://www.personalpowermeditation.com/forum/social-dynamics/the-betaization-process/

    If you are married, you are at least past point two. Traditional marriage was meant to prevent point 3 (which is now marital rape) and admonish women against point 4 active disrespect.

    That is no more.

    Current marriage is a fast slide to active disrespect, red pill or not. If you’re talking about creating the drama they crave, you are almost certainly at point 4 of your married relationship.

    Her job isn’t to make you a better man, her job is to ruin your life, most men have all their major accomplishments BEFORE marriage.

    While there are a few men that are able to have happy marriages, its more like 1% not 30%.

    Rollo and Dalrock have pretty clearly laid out the life pattern of the majority of women:

    pre 18 – boyfriend

    18 dump boyfriend

    18-29 cock merry-go-round

    29 lock down husband, have kids, betasize him completely.

    34-39 – dump husband/have affairs.

    35-42 – ride the merry-go-round one more time

    Lock down hunky millionaire (sucker number 2)

    I’ve watched this play out over and over again. If you’re married, you’re getting betasized (and being a father is beta) and you’re heading to a dumping if she has any options at all.

    Or you’re married to the aging, or frumpy no longer has options woman.

    The average marriage in this county lasts 8 years, that’s it.

    The problem, if you look at the under 30 set of women is that most of them have nothing to offer other than sex, they’re empty, but they expect the superman.

    Even Rollo admits that the best option in today’s society (and he’s happily married) is plate spinning.

    Game isn’t enough for marriage, its just damage control. You can’t stay mysterious forever living with someone. And marriage is a massive shift of power from the man to the woman.

    Massive. I’ve seen relationships where the guy and gal live together harmoniously for years, but as soon as they get married, the relationship becomes contentious and implodes.

  36. @Wanderer,

    After all, has it really ever been different since the beginning of the world? Has there really every been a man who truly believed that he could “get the girl” based on “who he is deep down inside”?

    Yes.

  37. This seems appropriate to the whole performance versus how I am inside:

    And one more thing Chris B,

    Most men go into marriage thinking they’re “better” than other men. Whether its blue pill conditioning telling them they’re “the nice guy” and not an asshole or the red pill guy telling himself “I’m not the nice guy, I’m the alpha”

    This kind of pride goes before a fall.

    I am goddamn sick of the idea that if only you’re “red pill alpha” enough you can be happily married and the implied message that you weren’t man enough if you get divorced.

    Its utter horseshit in today’s society.

    If you’re currently happily married, great, but don’t think there isn’t an element of luck.

    You may have been better at vetting your wife, but even that has an element of chance, you may be able to game, but if your wife got offered a bigger better deal, game isn’t enough to keep her and there are no social, religious or cultural restrictions on her trading you in, she gets rewarded for doing it

  38. Without religion there is NO controlling women.

    Or dumb ass male elders threw every constraint in religion away. Dumb ducks.

    Reap the whirlwind. Without the reinstitution of religion we will not survive this. Muslims will take over. They already have in Europe. “Humanism” HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Ask Dostoevsky about humanism

  39. “From Love Story:”

    LOL, thought you meant the movie, I read the quote with Ryan O’Neil in my head mouthing the words – Too Fucking Funny!

  40. @bango Tango

    “I just have to ask you guys reading RM how you still find women as attractive as you once did when you didn’t know their true nature and still had those romantic fantasies. I honestly don’t respect them at all even knowing they can’t help it and it’s evolution blah blah. ”

    I cannot speak for others, but yes I can still love women, it’s just a very different kind of love now. It starts with an air of forgiveness on my part, as if I am dealing with a child that simply doesn’t know themselves yet. “She knows not what she does”. It’s very easy when first taking the red pill to ascribe much ill intent to most women, especially those who in retrospect have hyper-gamed your ass out the door for some Alpha dude. “She fucked me over and she knew what she was doing”. Sure, she fucked me over, but an honest assessment of the situation is, no, she did not actually fully know what she was doing, she was simply following a script, that we all now have a copy of including the directors notes. So it is for all women. You cannot read what we read here at therationalmale.com all the time and tell me they, women, consciously know what they are doing and fully intend to do it all the time. Hardly, no, most of them have no clue WHY they are doing what they do. The snake doesn’t know why it bites, it just knows it’s hungry or it’s in danger, so it bites. I cannot blame the snake for biting me, it’s a fucking snake after all. Snake handler beware.

    So it is with women. Once you know they “bite” well, you handle them with a stick and gloves or the caution that is due a fickle and dangerous creature such that it is. It’s not a moral thing, it’s not a personal thing, it simply is what it is. Once I know the snake bites I can act accordingly. For the record, I hate snakes, but they are still beautiful creatures. I live in fear of getting bitten by a highly venomous one but aside from that I think they are pretty cool. So it is with women. Have the right tools for the job and there’s no reason you cannot enjoy the company of one. So as for respect, I don’t respect the snake, I respect the nature of snakes. I don’t have to like it, I just have to accept what the nature of a snake is and act accordingly to protect my own interests, namely not getting bitten. I don’t have to respect women, nay I cannot respect them in the same way I respect men anymore, but I can respect their nature. It is in my self interest to respect that nature and act accordingly. I can act otherwise like an infatuated 18 year old boy and I will surely get bitten at some point.

  41. Perhaps you’re right, Rollo, although I think I should clarify my point.

    If I understand correctly “who he is deep down inside” is equivalent to a guy being nice, loyal, and supportive, then this still does not excuse the guy from the arena of competition. He is still competing to be the nicest, loyalest, and most supportive guy in the market. I suppose this is exactly what the majority of men are doing today and why I shake my head in disbelief at them. I know this is happening but it is still “performance in one manner or another.” We could talk all day about how is playing it wrong, but he is still playing.

    In the ranks of naivety about how the world operates, the only thing worse would be a guy who believed that a girl would be sexual with him/love him…. for no reason at all. I suppose we could call this sexual grace or sexual unconditional love. Although, we could surmise that this naive man believes that because he IS attracted to a girl that she SHOULD be attracted to him and reciprocate him sexually. Are you saying that there are men in the world who buy into this type of mentality?

    And I will watch Blue Valentine. I have not seen it and it sounds like it illustrates your point.

  42. ” You cannot remove yourself from this performance equation. You can cease to direct your part in this performance, but until you die you cannot exit the game.”

    That, that right there is the elephant in the room, that people like you have finally gotten me to understand Rollo.

    I would love for my wife to love me for me, warts and all, but in this day and age, it aint gonna happen.

    Matters not if you have kids, financial security, health, whatever, she wants to be distracted constantly so that she never has to turn her gaze inward and see the cesspool of her own. So either accept the reality of this age and game the wife to hell, or just slowly turn to rust and be at peace with yourself, the choice is ours.

  43. Jezuz! Blue Valentine, just watched it with the old lady about 3 weeks ago, we were both gagging. I could see the utter look of disdain on the wifes face! I think that performance may have turned her off of RG forever!

    Yet just a few short years ago, that was me! OMFG! I gotta go puke!

  44. agent p -“You cannot read what we read here at therationalmale.com all the time and tell me they, women, consciously know what they are doing and fully intend to do it all the time.”

    Whether by incompetence or malice it matters not at all. What does matter is that the resulting reality is what it is. And that reality is that there is no deeper meaning or connection only the temporary illusion of such. As well, I therefore have no actual responsibility to any woman in any form of relationship. I only have to pay the form of currency demanded to maintain the relationship and I can walk guilt free at any time, for any reason.

    You can’t negotiate desire and that works both ways.

    I won’t be appreciated for my sacrifices and commitment so I won’t bother making any. Women love opportunistically, best to return the same and forgo the hassle of pretending my feelings actually mean anything or are of any consequence to anyone but myself.

  45. @Siirtyrion

    I have found in my own RP experience that a DHV and a shit test are not the same thing by a wide margin. Perhaps the outcome they affect is but they way they come about is most certainly not. Context, I am married, was deep blue pill for 8 years, took the pill and put it all to work very quickly. I love doing empirical testing, mostly physics related, but empirical field testing is always very helpful for figuring out how effective some things are. So I have approached DLV, DHV and shit tests in my relationship.

    I feel as if you come at shit testing and DHV only from the front end of a relationship perspective, the point of deciding if she should accept a mate or not. You speak about them in seemingly equivilant terms.

    Ten years into a marriage I can very clearly differentiate between a shit test, and DHV and a DLV. It’s possible the outcome is the same, but how they come about can be very different. In my own experience shit tests are of course initiated by Wife, I don’t invite shit tests, they inevitably happen when I am not on top of my game. If she is feeling insecurity about money, sex etc, and kind of internal or external issues, including me, issues she is having can erupt as a shit test. The Shit test is very much driven by her anxiety and it doesn’t matter too much if it has to do with me or not.

    So does it make sense as a test? If I demonstrate confidence and dominance in 98% of wife induced shit tests, I pass, period. The test is, “Can you calm my anxieties and fears about X,Y,or Z?”. It doesn’t matter if I look good or not, the test is totally behavioural.

    “Or, an expression of resentment in being entangled in a LTR, which poses obvious trade-offs in short-term goals (ie. she resents having a long-term mate who ‘tingles’ her less than other prospective mates). One could argue that if you were displaying sufficient indications of genetic quality, she would have made for more agreeable company.”

    Resentment, yes, perhaps. But given that resentment often takes quite some time to really flower, I am not convinced. Because a well handled shit test, in the context of an LTR, can turn her about in a matter of moments. The test itself may be sprung from some long term insecurity about the relationship, but more often than not, it just simply seems like a basic fitness test, “Can you handle this shit or not?”. I think the shit testing I encounter currently, has a lot more to do with Beta Bucks side of Hypergamy and not genetic coding suitability shit. E.g., “Can you keep this joint together enough that we can all survive?”. Shit tests about Gina-tingles are somewhat different and more of a slow burn. They are harder to identify as she knows an overt display of dissapointment in me as a sexual partner is a touchy subject and obviously has the corrollary of wanting a different dick. As such, wife is smart enough to unconsciously be quite careful about an, “I can get a better dick then you so what are you going to do about it?”, kind of shit test. Those shit tests come in the form of dread etc and acting up in different ways than a traditional full frontal attack shit test.

    How I respond to the shit test can be a DLV or a DHV, thus the outcome. Now I know what shit tests are, and given how well I know my wife, it’s very easy to identify a shit test for what it is and I can more often than not even identify, without her knowing, what specific anxiety is driving this test. This gives me good intel for how best to defuse and deal with a shit test. Yes, some times she is very clearly questioning a mate choice, yes, some times she is simply determining if I am meeting her hypergamous needs for the stage of life she is in. Other times she is just bent over the conversation she had with her mother and she needs to lash out a bit.

    That having been said, I can pull a DHV or a DLV without any prompting from her. If I score a huge deal and bring home lots of Bacon, it has nothing to do with her deep seated anxieties, it can be a DHV all by itself. If I fail to deal with some stupid shit I should have, I can pull a DLV without any stimulus from her to do so, e.g. without a shit test, I can pull a DLV.

    So sorry for going on for so long, but my basic point to you is, I think you only tend to look at all of this relationship stuff in the context of just getting the chick in the first place, not in the context of an LTR. In an LTR, I think a shit test has somewhat different meaning than it does in the close and capture phase.

    Thus I buy Rollo’s assertion, that we are always performing, like it or not. Perhaps this is a version of male solopsism to some extent in that even if I were on my own in the middle of the ocean I would be judging my own performance and it’s either good, bad or ugly. Perhaps I am just internalizing shit tests or perhaps I am just a regular guy who is what he does, and is not the sum of what he thinks of himself etc.

  46. Best response ever to a shit test. Buddy is the coolest dude ever, never looses frame. His wife would shit test and shit test and shit test, Buddy, no response, or sardonic comment.

    One day he is sitting in the big comfy chair eating a plate of sphaghetti, wife is bleating on about something “important”, he just inores her. She looses it and flies at him like an outside linebacker, knocks him and the big comfy chair flying! Buddy does a gracious tuck and roll, ends up sitting cross legged on the floor, not a bit of sphagetti spilled, and just continues eating.

    The end of the shit tests!

  47. agent p, I definitely follow your reasoning, and it’s hard to argue with demonstrable results. Idiots and masochists will keep burning their hands on the stove.

    Some guys develop pretty good callouses/heat tolerance though, too.

    Many of us have fully internalized (been implanted with?) the modern gospel that women are full equals, they’re just as capable as any man, with just as much agency as men. They’re not animals or children, and it’s abhorrent to treat them as such, no matter how positively they respond to it.

    But our righteous anger bubbles up like lava when they constantly angle for the best of both worlds, their duplicity screaming out, both personally and culturally, expecting us to be their fools. Are they deceiving themselves, or are they masters of deception?

    We want to hold their feet to the fire. See what it’s like to be a man! Face the consequences of your choices! Pay your own fucking way! Suck it up if you don’t like it! Learn honor and accountability! Learn to value the group above yourself! Learn contrition! You asked for this!

    I know, appeals to reason and all, it’s a circular argument. But now that the new paradigm has been laid out for us – like it or not – many of us have accepted it (more or less) and are now more focused on refusing to let the modern woman off the hook.

    Or at least making sure we’re not the biggest suckers by refusing to dance. Ever notice how sad clowns are? No thanks.

  48. Going your own way doesn’t have to mean celibacy – quite the opposite in my experience. When I started figuring out the score and conducting myself accordingly, opportunities abounded (not without speedbumps of course).

    Whether women consciously acknowledge that today’s traditional men are in the crosshairs or not, they respect a man who knows the score. And I have as little interest in big game beta hunters as they have in me. Someone above mentioned that disgust is the proper response, and I agree.

  49. “You can’t negotiate desire and that works both ways.

    I won’t be appreciated for my sacrifices and commitment so I won’t bother making any. Women love opportunistically, best to return the same and forgo the hassle of pretending my feelings actually mean anything or are of any consequence to anyone but myself.”

    Very, very well said. Nuff said.

  50. After reading every RP site out there, having numerous lovers and many blue pill failures, I have finally distilled the RP down to the fact that a woman’s love is CONDITIONAL. Only my Mom loves me unconditionally(at times not even her), every other woman only loves how I can make her feel, provide for her or perform a function.

    Yes it is a tough pill to swallow but now that I know the rules my interactions with women are much more pleasing. I now ask what this woman can do for me? How are you going to make my life better? What do you bring to the table? Besides sex(which is easy to get) what do you have to offer? This attitude has changed my life dramatically! I now focus on things that do make my life better(work, hobbies, friends) and remove the people and activities that don’t(shitty women,shitty friends, boring activities).

    Before the RP I was always doing boring, mundane shit for HB5-6’s(shopping at Walmart for clothes, going to chick flicks, moving their furniture) and yes I was that beta! Now I have much hotter dates with women that go and do what I want, where and when I want(If not then I have other shit to accomplish anyway). Women come about 5th on my list of crap to accomplish, yet I am never short of dates with good looking women now.

    The RP is an amazing thing to me. How can I care less, yet get so much more reward out of life and women now? I hope to learn more about why from Rollo and commentor’s here and will read often. I can honestly say that the RP changed my expectations of others and I am no longer a walking doormat(which is a miserable way to live). Thanks to all

  51. Rollo – thanks for another excellent post.

    Higher value can only be effectively demonstrated when it is real and a man is aware of it. “Posers” are “Losers” spelled with a “P” and most women (people) see straight through the bullshit. Self depreciation (regardless of why) is the nemesis of higher value. As a man thinks so shall he be.

  52. On the primacy of male behavior, NOT male appearance. 1.

    Renninger, L. A., Wade, T. J., and Grammer, K. 2004. Getting that female glance: patterns and behaviors of male nonverbal behavior in courtship contexts. Evolution and Human Behavior, 25, 416-431.
    Renninger et al. document that male dominance behaviors, especially approaching and initiating contact with females, and male body language, especially space-maximizing movements and postures, *determined* male success in “real” “courtship” settings (bars and clubs near college campuses). Renninger et al. specifically question why more men do not game the system and behave so as to give dishonest signals of dominance towards women.

  53. On the primacy of male behavior, NOT male appearance.2.

    Hill A., Hunt J., Welling L., Cardenas R., Rotella M., Wheatley J., Dawood K., Shriver M., Puts D. 2013. Quantifying the strength and form of sexual selection on men’s traits. Evolution and Human Behavior, 34(5), 334–341.
    Hill et al. comprehensively review the state of the literature on male phenotype selection for physical attractiveness and dominance behaviors, and perform the requisite little experiment of frat dudes picking up sorority chicks, and conclude: dominance all the way. 100% of male sexual success was predicted by dominance alone, 0% attributable to attractiveness.

  54. Blue Valentine is a great film. I recommend it. I watched it because Rollo said to watch it.

    Badpainter is spot on. Whether it’s incompetence or malice – it’s all narcissism and therefore inexcusable. She does what she does because she thinks only of herself, with no regard to who gets hurt, or how badly they suffer for her Macchiavellian pursuit of her eternal AFBB agenda. That is reason enough to eschew sympathy ploys.

    Escorts are great. If you’re not married or in a LTR, use them for christ’s sake. You have to at least ask yourself ‘Am I a coward?’ if you don’t at least try it out.

    D-Man is on to something in that we know women’s angling for the double-standard treatment is ludicrous, and we know better than to engage their hypocrisy logically, but we almost can’t help ourselves sometimes.

  55. “Self depreciation (regardless of why) is the nemesis of higher value. As a man thinks so shall he be.”

    I think I have sufficient selfesteem that I can give some of it away (with a nudge and a wink) without losing any.

    And consider Feynman who did it in a left handed sort of way, bragging that he was special for winning a Nobel Prize in physics because, by objective measurement, we wasn’t really very smart, and smart people winning Nobel Prizes was really rather ordinary.

  56. @Bango Tango

    Yet another great post. Do you have your own blog? I always have laughed when pua’s talk about shit testing as being built into a woman’s psychology and act like women apply it to all males equally and it’s just something you have to put up with and overcome with your “game”. If I think for a second a woman might be shit testing me I ignore her and move on. But no you shouldn’t do that you should give her what she wants and peacock even harder! No thanks.

    Realize this: PUAs are only trying to sell you something to make a living off of you. They don’t care about your “improvement” all they care about is those zeros in their bank account. For example, there was a thread on reddit where some “Daygamer PUA” was selling the idea that looks don’t matter on Tinder. To ‘prove’ this, he took a picture of an ugly guy and matched it with women by “using a secret technique that could be yours for 9.99!”

    I wish I was joking. He never did show the matches in real time and instead only showed the ugly man’s picture and new matches on the sidebar. Mind you, he could have easily fabricated the sidebar of matches by simply using another man’s picture.

    It was truly pathetic to watch. Selling men a dream where none exists.

    As for the blog, I had one but stopped updating it due to conflicting schedules in my real life work. If I see a surge in demand, then I’ll start a new one or revive the old one. But for blogs, consistency is key and I may fall short in that area over time.

    @Rollo:

    A woman that has a high interest level (IL) in a guy has no need (and less motivation) to engage in behaviors that would compromise her status with him. Women of all ILs will shit test, and men will pass or fail accordingly, but a test is more easily recognizable when you consider the context in which they’re delivered.

    It would actually be more recognizable if you were to adjust for the man’s inherent value and not the context that it is delivered in.

    The problem with your analysis is still that the phenomenon of “shit testing” does in fact exist. We can chew the fat over why it exists, but the dynamic is undeniably observable.

    Does the phenomenon of women filtering men (even of those attractive) still exist?

    Absolutely, but not in the degree to which the PUA community subscribes a “ resolution” for. Females use non-compensatory search heuristics, as opposed to strategies that facilitate making trade-offs among attributes (e.g., weighted averaging). For example, when faced with choosing one potential mate from different male online daters, women eliminated men who were not acceptable on the limitating criterion (attractiveness), first eliminated anyone who do not meet their standards on attractiveness, of those remaining they eliminated anyone who do not meet their standards for education, personality,etc). That is to say, bottleneck is physical appearance.

    I think the disconnect here is what you’ve described before, the trade-off between genetic and investment benefits. While it’s currently the trend to believe women are more capable of providing for their own long term security needs, you’re simply not going to ‘un-evolve’ in the short span since the sexual revolution the millennia of psychological firmware that prompts women to test men for fitness of both genetic preselection and provisioning preselection.

    This is the primary reason feminism / equalism will fall flat – you won’t socialize innate drives in both men and women into non-existence. For all of women’s (dubious) empowerment and supposed rising above the ‘social constructs’ of gender they still test men for fitness based on innate drives which contradict what that empowerment is supposed to mean to women.

    That testing may be about Alpha Fucks or Beta Bucks, but women’s constant drive for hypergamous optimization is an evolved ‘feature’ of their psyches.

    But it raises a further question, in how is ‘shit-testing’ a relatively efficient, and reliable measure of evolutionary value, beyond it’s circular premise of a fitness-test(ie. how did these male traits under scrutiny *evolve* – what advantages did they confer *before* they became correlated with female ‘shit-testing’)?

    But, allow me to further clarify my position.

    I believe the only male fitness test mediated by female-choice, is *reproductive success*(obviously correlated with sexual success).
    The amount of bullshit a male has to wade through(ie. where factors in sexual conflict mediate the frequency of successful males who ‘pass’ the test), is simply a proxy measure of *handicapping load*.

    Thus, less energetically liable males(those for whom sexual-conflict-mediated handicaps are mitigated by indications of genetic quality, like physical attractiveness, etc), are displaying *higher* fitness.

    This explanation also unifies the observation that men can get laid without incurring any obvious (re: multiple) form of shit-testing(again, unless we stretch definitions to where they become meaningless – which seems to be an unfortunate requirement of reconciling ridiculous PUA notions about the way evolutionary systems actually work).

    I really think the Manosphere would have more credibility if it stopped pandering to demonstratedly spurious PUA conventions.

    @ agent p

    I have found in my own RP experience that a DHV and a shit test are not the same thing by a wide margin. Perhaps the outcome they affect is but they way they come about is most certainly not. Context, I am married, was deep blue pill for 8 years, took the pill and put it all to work very quickly. I love doing empirical testing, mostly physics related, but empirical field testing is always very helpful for figuring out how effective some things are. So I have approached DLV, DHV and shit tests in my relationship.

    Then what you are describing(in such a case), is not a fitness test per se(because it is not determinate), but an expression of fitness handicapping.

    The idea of a ‘fitness test’ is merely an abstraction of a system which mediates reproductive success – where determinacy is rarely observed in any particular interaction.

    So, I think the term ‘handicapping trial’ is often more apt, but I wish I were better at explaining this subtle distinction in your case.

    I feel as if you come at shit testing and DHV only from the front end of a relationship perspective, the point of deciding if she should accept a mate or not. You speak about them in seemingly equivilant terms.

    You must get your foot in the door before you can settle into any home.

    So sorry for going on for so long, but my basic point to you is, I think you only tend to look at all of this relationship stuff in the context of just getting the chick in the first place, not in the context of an LTR. In an LTR, I think a shit test has somewhat different meaning than it does in the close and capture phase.

    Well, you do have to get the girl in the first place before it can organically turn into a LTR. I understand that many here see me focusing on the short-term mating strategy by women and that’s simply because it is (usually) a prerequisite of whether or not a LTR (or the female optima long term mating sequence) will even start to begin with. Aside from this, the West is currently in high favor of a short-term mating strategy (r-selection) and it only makes since to discuss topics dealing with intersexual relations from this angle seeing as how it applies to our particular culture.

    @jf12

    Don’t shoot the messenger.

    Hah! I found your comment ironic seeing as how you always try to shoot my positions down.

    Re: on women’s primacy of male behavior, and not male appearance:
    There’s another study which proves (biologically) that a change occurs when a woman sees an attractive man speaking to another woman.

    Read up on it:

    The current experiment examined whether women show a similar endocrine response to physically and behaviorally attractive men. 120 women (70 naturally-cycling and 50 using hormonal contraceptives) were shown one of four 20-minute video montages extracted from popular films, depicting the following scenarios: 1) an attractive man courting a young woman (experimental stimulus), 2) a nature documentary (video clip control), 3) an unattractive older man courting a woman (male control), and 4) an attractive woman with no men present (female control). Saliva samples were taken before and after presentation of the stimulus, and were later analyzed for testosterone and cortisol content via enzyme immunoassay. Naturally-cycling women experienced a significant increase in both testosterone and cortisol in response to the experimental stimulus but to none of the control stimuli. Participants taking hormonal contraceptives also showed a significant cortisol response to the attractive man.

    Women may release adrenal steroid hormones to facilitate courtship interactions with high mate-value men.

    Roney, J.R., Lukaszewski, A.W., Simmons, Z.L., 2007. “Rapid endocrine responses of young men to social interactions with young women.”

    Really, it’s all in black and white there. But hold on, I’m not through with you. You also cited, “ Quantifying the strength and form of sexual selection on men’s traits. Evolution and Human Behavior, 34(5), 334–341.”

    I read the study a few months back and I was very surprised…UNTIL I read this little piece of information from the study:

    “Despite the coherence of these results, we note several limitations…, our data on mating success were based on SELF-REPORT, which may be UNRELIABLE.”

    You don’t say? A post of mine’s comes to mind but which one was it?

    Oh, that’s right. Have a gander at it below:

    Let’s see some examples why these (self report) surveys will never find a pattern for approach to the real world:

    1. Hadjistavropoulos et al (1994) proved that there is a mistaken social construct tend to underestimation of the role of physical attractiveness in male mate value. 80 female undergraduates were shown profiles containing photographs and information about the personalities of potential male dating partners and were asked to state the dating desirability of each target person. Subsequently, were asked to introspect about the factors that affected their dating preferences and they tended to intentionally underreport the impact of physical attractiveness on their preferences. Later, they were said that they were connected to a lie-detector polygraph, they produced more accurate overall introspective reports, admitted a main extreme influence by the physical attractiveness of the targets. It seems that female mindsets are very influenced by a social or cultural taboo. Women tend to underestimate in questionnaires the importance of male attractiveness. They are conditioned, consciously or unconsciously, to express a politically correct choice and thus they do not wish to be perceived as “shallow”.

    2. Weiderman and Dubois (1998) have found men accurately indicated that the physical attractiveness of the targets was the most important characteristic that influenced their desirability ratings, whereas women inaccurately indicated that desired level of relationship commitment was their most important factor, when, in fact, it was one of the least important factors behaviorally. Sprecher (1989) found similar results, in that women inaccurately assessed the role of physical attractiveness in their own ratings of a target man. The women in Sprecher’s study reported that expressiveness was the most important factor in their choice, although it was the least important factor behaviorally. Physical attractiveness was the most important factor that actually influenced their ratings. The results of these two studies suggest that women’s self-reported preferences may not match their actual choices. Because it is still considered shallow and inappropriate for women to say that physical attractiveness is very important in their choices, those women may have engaged in impression management. Theory is that women do know what they want, but that when asked, they need to give answers that are acceptable to society. If so, women might misstate their preferences more often because there is more pressure on them to engage in impression management and to give the socially-desirable response.
    Therefore, mate choice research is faced with a solid body of theoretical models and many supportive empirical hints from a variety of methodologically limited paradigms on the one hand, but a dearth of sufficiently ecologically valid studies to evaluate their predictions on the other hand. But an interesting solution to this predicament has recently appeared with the emergence of “online-dating” ,”speed-dating”, and Tinder.

    Checkmate.

  57. “Without religion there is NO controlling women.”

    This; and Family, with a strong, present father.
    Yet, the family as we know it is under sustained attack and gradual erosion by the influence of the Frankfurt School/Cultural Marxism, Unrestrained Capitalism, the Mainstream media, Feminism etc.
    The “evil patriarchy” allowed Western civilization to develop and acted as a brake to restrain women’s natural hypergamy and default mode of shirking responsibility/accountability.
    It might not be perfect but if things were left to women, we would still be living in grass huts.

  58. ”d destroy all your work with a glance then really what’s the point. You are not going to resent women knowing this is the situation? ”

    Well, I don’t know about him, but I don’t resent women. Do I expect a Lion to bite off my hand if I put it inside its mouth? yes, its the natural of the wild predator to hunt prey. When a man is first presented with the nature of women, it is natural for him to be bitter for a time. I mean, you have your natural urges to contend with and those urges don’t concern themselves with female hypergamy, carousel-ridding and so on. But there’s a glimmer of hope. You don’t chase women, you don’t date women. You also don’t end up paying child-support nor alimony.

    You also don’t have to deal with crazy ex-boyfriends and believe me, most women have had drug dealers or thugs as boyfriends – its exciting!

    After awhile you begin to see women as all the same. They use the same hairstyle. They use the same clothes. They all tease and instigate men they aren’t attracted to, as to feed their need for attention, and eventually you’ll grow immune to those silly ”signals of interest” women exude all the time, to every man, to make the man approach, to feed her ego and to spend money on them.

    Do I regret not having my personal cum dumpster harem like the Alphas have? Meh, had you asked me this when I was 18, I would probably lament it, but in my late 20s after a good porn session I’m as depleted from sexual desire as married men are, where it concerns money.

    Of course on occasion I see a tall German girl, like this 6’3” blonde as hell German girl conversing with her Austrian female friend, making me go ”DAMN” but you know, I can’t $ those chicks lol.

  59. ”Apologizing for a lack of Game isn’t a form of Game.”

    Game is an ability to draw pleasant reactions from women, by using language, but the difference in how effective ”game” is, depends on the man’s looks. I have never in decade-long of being attracted by my friends to vagina-avenues(nightclubs, bars etc) have seen men of average-looks pull women of average or below looks. These guys knew how to talk, and worked to the bone trying to get the girl to come with them. Then I’d see a tall, hulking figure of a man. He’d grunt, she’d come running to this stranger and he’d bang her easily.

    Same thing in college. Met plenty of gregarious young men who knew how to rule a room, and they only aimed their sights at women who were in their looks-range or below them. Cue in the retard with crappy posture, terrible manners but tall or handsome. Who do you think wins?

    Anyway, Its silly to work like a dog for something that is freely given to some other guy. Would any guy with employment prospects accept a trash propitiation for work when he knows the guy who came before him had a bigger paycheck and put in fewer hours? I know the Russians around here work like they’ll be send to the gulag if they don’t kill themselves with work, but I like to live a chill life.

    I might have a bit of a dark triad in me because I do enjoy seeing beta male learn the ropes, that their efforts and their accomplishments will never net them the sweet young girl. Meanwhile, the drug dealer next door with a leather jacket will bang her everyday as if she was a buffet ahahaha.

  60. Yo I gotta get back to my league of legends promo games, but i want to say, that when a woman is attracted to a man, she doesn’t put up shit tests or attempts to filter his Alphaness. Women very rarely meet men they are attracted to, so when they do t hey put up in the nearest bathroom if that is needed.

  61. aha, dogs can’t hunt what doesn’t want to be hunted and women can not only choose only the best-looking men for fun and one day their power over society will be so immense, they will be able to reproduce only with the most handsome of men. Damn, there’s this reddit sub, its called oldschoolCool. One of the users posted a picture of his grandfather when the guy was 20, circa 1940. Very few threads on that sub get 100 posts. This one got 1000 in less than an hour, even the guys are fawning about how attractive the guy was.

    LOOKS>Game.

    Looks> Money.

    Looks>all.

  62. My friendships with my male friends have improved dramatically since unplugging. This is a high point that shouldn’t be taken lightly. It’s one of the (potential) best parts of unplugging.

    Another great part is becoming conscious of how you’re choosing to spend your time, and who you’re choosing to spend your time with. And also what you’re choosing to spend your time thinking about.

    What thoughts and feelings are you practicing in your mind every day? Are you developing skills every day? Are you enjoying yourself and having a good time and enjoying being alive every day? If you’re unhappy with your relationship or sex life or have no relationship or sex life, put that on the shelf for a minute, and ask yourself this: are you making the most of the GOOD relationships that ARE in your life? Connections with friends, or parents, or brothers or sisters, cousins, etc.?

    I have no extended family and I only have a couple friends, but I make the most of what I have and I highly value the people that are in my life.

    It isn’t women. It’s the attachment to them. Hypergamy isn’t women’s fault. It’s just the way things are. That’s why I say to focus on yourself and your genuine friendships and connections, but also not to repress your sexual desires or compulsively avoid women.

    If the best way to attract women is to have your own life and to prioritize yourself and your own needs — and to be game-aware — then this is a win-win situation. Have your own life and prioritize your own needs, and on top of that, be open to pursuing opportunities with women as they come along. Understanding game will help with that.

    If you strike out, so what? At least you tried. And the worst that happens is that you have to go back to your awesome lifestyle filled with people and activities you enjoy. If you do hook up with a girl, great. But that foundation is still there, and that’s really what sustains you.

    Hypergamy just means women are a losing bet. Don’t put all your money on it. But it doesn’t mean you can’t put some of it on it and have fun. Just set a limit for yourself, like you’re going to a casino. Once you’ve spent all you’ve decided you’re willing to spend, step out.

    Your savings account that you live off of comes from your genuine friendships and your day to day lifestyle, and how you treat yourself with your thoughts and feelings and how you choose to spend your time.

    In order for women to just be a complement to your life, and not the focus of it, you have to have a life first. Ask yourself how you’d like to spend your time today, how you can be good to yourself, what kind of thoughts and feelings you would like to have — cultivate that first, and the rest will be a lot easier.

  63. http://www.personalpowermeditation.com/forum/social-dynamics/the-betaization-process/

    A great analysis and shows how a man that is married can become progressively betaised and have his choices/options limited
    because her options/choices take precedent or are allowed to take precedent, partly because of the law being on her side, ie, being raped via divorce.
    Also, the vast majority of women these days have entitlement complexes.
    It can even be something as simple as wanting/expecting to “keep up with the Joneses” the attitude being …”why can’t you (husband) do better, earn better, provide better so that my status and confort is raised to the level of my perceived peers?
    Husband just becomes the workhorse provider of the relationship and if does not play by the “rules” gets denied sex at best; gets no sex and threat of divorce/losing the kids at worst. Wife is not held to account because she is full of excuses (at best) and total self serving behaviour and dishonesty (at worst)
    It is what it is and it is, fucked.
    Religion no longer keeps them (women) in check, family (their parents and elders) no longer keeps them in check, their friends and peers certainly don’t keep them in check; perhaps only their employers have any ability to keep them in check as they (women that work) are reliant on their bosses for that sweet sweet sweet $ they crave and lust for.

    As far as looks go; looks ARE important and DO play a role, but only up to a point. As a man gets older, the importance of his looks become secondary to other factors such as status, money, job, ability to provide etc.

  64. ”As far as looks go; looks ARE important and DO play a role, but only up to a point. As a man gets older, the importance of his looks become secondary to other factors such as status, money, job, ability to provide etc.’

    What does it matter? The guy is still the last pick. The guys she slept when she was 20 had her when she was decent-look, didn’t have stds, no abortions, had a high sex drive, and only wanted to have fun.

    Its not hard to pick women when you are in your 30s, just have a job, really. most of them are desperate anyway. But what’s the fun in post-wall women with baby rabies? And why would anyone provide for a woman? That makes no sense for me. I don’t recall paying for the public toilets I use.

  65. I will sometimes pay for a 4-star hotel room in a city center just to have a spot to take a load off, have a clean bathroom, and crash without having to drive after drinking. I’m happy to pay, and pay quite handsomely, for something that enhances any given day in this brief life.

    There’s a corollary.

  66. @Rollo

    Just finished Blue Valentine. Wow. If there ever was a red pill movie…

    Also, I just noticed that you linked the Mark Manson video to your response. I watched about thirty minutes before my brain got tired. He was obviously trying to argue against performance but all it came across as was “set low-standards both for yourself and the women you want.”

  67. I have a few thoughts when reading this. My first thought is that women value different things at different times with men they seek. Sure they seek a man with a strong frame and healthy body but they are also looking for different flavors at different times when it comes to personalities and characters.

    The problem with men “being themselves” is that there is no real growth or getting outside of your comfort zone. When your not playing the game your still playing but your not moving onto any new levels. Your not expanding your abilities and personality. When you stand pat you are the affect of what’s going on around you. You are not the cause at this point. Another way of saying you are not holding your frame anymore you are letting it slip away.

    Even if your a MGTOW your still losing the frame that your a desirable man in any fashion. Because your not doing anything to challenge yourself. Your not just unattractive to attractive women but to many other things you desire in life. While who you are can be good enough to get laid or get a solid job and all that there’s no real challenge to move things in another direction and for many women that is boring. It causes more shit tests and for whatever lifestyle you choose it gets boring.

    Being able to switch things up and challenge yourself in life and with women makes things more entertaining. It’s makes you more of a challenge and entertaining to women too. If your not moving forward your resisting a world that is always moving forward and changing.

  68. MGTOW don’t necessarily spend their entire time on porn and on video games. I know guys who take trips to other Countries(Countries to visit, not Countries to sample the whores) learn foreign languages, learn a trade, or develop an artistic hobby. I know a guy who spent the majority of his time chasing women to no avail .He began to dedicate that time to painting, even beginning at it ”really late” and having no talent for it but now he’s selling paintings and having his work in relevant art places.

  69. So many things.

    First @plagio.

    You are wrong looks are not the biggest factor for young girls, although they are a factor. Evidence: me. First hand evidence. I was captain of the football team in higjschoool but had horrible horrible acne + acne scars and was not a pretty boy at all. At the the time I was fucking a 9 blonde hair blue eyed girl in my grade based on my performance.

    Biggest thing from this post is don’t tell dhvs, show and demonstrate them. So many examples for this….this is usually done through hard work and character development.

    Also along the lines of you “can’t be yourself”. That’s the worst way of putting it And Rollo is wrong in saying this.

    You have to develop yourself to a nonbeta character/personality. In other words “being yourself” will feel natural.

    If you’re transitioning then yeah I guess it applies but you can be yourself when you’ve grown enough and mAtured. Like wtf? Don’t “be yourself”. Yeah “don’t be yourself” and you’ll be a psychotic depressed person who feels like they have no place on earth. Wtf? You can be yourself it’s about becoming a better man

  70. I think the next version of Game is going to have to find a worthy and successful mindset for unplugged men that tackles the inevitable bitterness that arises from RP truth. I know many men say they are not angry or bitter etc anymore, but the fact remains that once you know about female nature/hypergamy etc the bloom comes off the rose and it is not always easy to find motivation once it does.
    I’ll give an example. RP is alot like physics. Once you understand it you realize that life is merely a complex set of chemical interactions mediated by physical laws. In effect we are just inert matter performing a sort of pantomime, there is no soul, no spirit, no real “life”. Yet, even a physicist lives in the world in a way that is contrary to that truth. A scientist doesn’t live as if he is just a meaningless, purposeless lump of matter, he doesn’t say “my wife causes my endocrine system increase hormonal production and dopamine release” he says, and feels, and act in a way that says “I love her”. In a way, even though physical empirical science is proven true beyond measure, we live in a subjective experience of reality, not in an objective one.
    If a scientist were to try and live his truth, he would treat people as machines, he would discount his own experience and in the in wonder what point is to doing anything at all. If he tried to implement this truth onto the world, he would find that it is actually counterproductive, people would resent being treated like machines and in the end, he would very much probably end up not being very successful at life- at least in the subjective sense. In reality he needs to live in a sort of double minded reality, one in which the veil is pulled apart to reveal a deeper truth, and one in which he largely ignores that truth in order to live a life worth living.
    In the same way, RP truth is very much objective truth. It is an accurate, objective description of reality. But it is not the subjective perspective that necessarily brings about success and happiness… often the opposite. It makes sense that RP truth will not necessarily be the best way to experience life and may very well be counter productive in achieving ones goals and needs.. yet the truth is a form of power that allows one to more accurately live in the world. Like the scientist, it is necessary, and probably best, for one to live in two realities at once. Knowing the objective RP reality of hypergamy etc, and at once a subjective reality that maximizes ones experience in a way that enables one to live without the nihilism or bitterness it, by necessity, brings about. Game will have reached its final culmination once it speaks and resolves that bind.
    I think its this double bind that makes men believe things like NAWALT, etc. It’s an attempt to acknowledge truth while simultaneously preserving a reason to implement it. Anyway, I am not knowledgeable enough, nor successful enough with women to know the answer. WhatI do know is I wish for a perspective that can allow me to function with women in a way that allows me a deeper joy, without having to deny the real truths the RP has taught me.

  71. I’ve noticed a lot of talk about looks being the determining point around the sandbox the past few months.

    I consider myself a few points above average. I’m in my 30’s.

    Here is my story…

    My former self (prior to “enligtenment”/TRP):

    *balding on top
    *just under 6ft
    *bad skin
    *170lbs
    *skinny
    *glasses
    *spoke too fast
    *anxious
    *job getting me nowhere
    *no style of dress
    *few hobbies
    *stayed in comfort zone

    Myself today 4yrs later (post “enlightenment”/TRP):

    *balding on top though I keep my head trimmed not shaved (looks the best)
    *just under 6ft
    *went to dermatologist over the years, found what works now have better skin
    *202lbs
    *muscular from hitting the gym for years
    *no glasses, saved money for 3yrs got laser eye surgery
    *learned to speak slower utilizing my sexy deep voice
    *still anxious but force myself to do what I fear, anxious level is much lower
    *doubled my income the past year alone after deciding what I wanted to do and went for it (2 more years until I’m in the top 10% in my field)
    *set aside a little money each paycheck for some nice clothes
    *don’t watch TV, too many hobbies and interests
    *balance being in my comfort zone and forcing change by getting out of it

    When I was a skinny guy with little game I still had tons of sexual energy and loved women. I always had a girlfriend. I was anxious but still approached women and had girlfriends. The quality of women was not was I have now because, at the time, I felt I couldn’t “get” those women.

    I’ve since dated three damn-near unicorns, three girls I liked because they were 21, 24, and 21 and had great energy (and for those who know, young women have the softest skin), several women in their late 20’s and early 30’s, one girl because her voice was sexy, one girl who had rosacea but was fun to hang out with, another girl who had an awesome ass, another girl who was very loving, and so on….

    My point?

    You want it. Go goddamn get it.

    I never see myself as “old” or “bald”. I was dealt a hand in life and I’ll play it like a boss. I know the girls I can “get”, the ones who like me, aware of my SMV and always push for hotter girls given she has the qualities I value.

    Some of my weaknesses I’ve relinquished, others I manage as they are who I am. Don’t fight gravity. Build your house on the ground.

    When I see a woman I like. I approach her and look her in the eyes and imagine hanging out with her doing the fun stuff I enjoy. I imagine how I’d seduce her. I like her. I want her. She feels it. A few days or weeks later a new plate is born with potential for promotion to GF. Those who don’t like me I excuse myself and find someone else. No anger. No drama. Although I always go out on top. If she says “I’m not interested. Sorry.” I say, “I’m not sorry. I never have regret when I go for what I want. Goodbye.”

    This site and others like it have great information and perspectives and is one of the dwindling places left for men to congregate and exchange ideas. I love this fact alone.

    Build a life you enjoy prior to getting women.

    Theory only gets you so far. Go out and see what works for you and what doesn’t work. Tweak it. Repeat.

    Gentlemen, the world is what you make it.

  72. I think a longer term goal of learning game is to internalize all the concepts and learnings and ideas so they become more natural.

    Just learning any new language, it takes time to become fluent.

    But by internalizing the learnings, you’re less “conscious” of making the effort to “neg” then build comfort etc etc…and you’re more calibrated…and not “performing”…but more becoming the prize every man should aim to be.

    Personally it’s been fits and starts. I have huge strides, then setbacks then lurch forward.

    I’m conscious of each step. I over-analyze every time I fail to move forward with a girl I’m gaming. It’s become less “technical” for me. So now I’m enjoying these interactions more.

  73. @ strayman – you could be my new hero

    @ hobbs – the physics analogy lends itself well to RP. In my case, I liken it to when I figure out a certain piece of music I want to learn; unravel its mystery and then tend to lose interest in hearing the song again – because I know it ‘too’ well.

    Unplugged here 9 months ago and having gone through my own various stages of grief (and giddy excitement) I now find myself struggling with a certain RP phase that I can’t put my finger on. But your post hits home – the bloom has certainly come off the rose as you say. I nexted my last plate and struggle with the desire to Game more women let alone spin more plates. I might be in my negative Roosh phase!

  74. 1. Scolding and making mountains out of irrelevant molehills is womanly.
    2. Male self-ratings of sexual success are in fact excellently correlated with actual sexual success in EVERY measure. Although we titter about magnifying conquests by a factor of two or three, it is the same factor for 20 as it is for 5. Rankings don’t change a bit. Only women think otherwise.
    3. Only women care if a male display is honest or not.
    4. Only women have a vested interest in males not becoming more sexually dominant across the board.
    5. The proof is in the pudding. As an unattractive old man, I can easily, very easily as I’ve documented in real-time field reports most recently this summer, arouse interest in younger (and much younger) females simply by *behaving* a lot more sexually dominant. You can too. Simply by behavior.
    6. What, precisely, are you doing to vastly improve your appearance? If not much, I refuse to believe that YOU believe what you say. At all. Not even in the slightest. Again, it is womanly to complain about appearance, and then not really do anything.

  75. @Hobbes – The awareness of science is indeed analogous to taking the red pill. Internalization of both explains everything. But, as with the faith of the pious, each should operate covertly so the adherent avoids rejection from nonbelievers.

  76. ”1. Scolding and making mountains out of irrelevant molehills is womanly.
    2. Male self-ratings of sexual success are in fact excellently correlated with actual sexual success in EVERY measure. Although we titter about magnifying conquests by a factor of two or three, it is the same factor for 20 as it is for 5. Rankings don’t change a bit. Only women think otherwise.
    3. Only women care if a male display is honest or not.
    4. Only women have a vested interest in males not becoming more sexually dominant across the board.
    5. The proof is in the pudding. As an unattractive old man, I can easily, very easily as I’ve documented in real-time field reports most recently this summer, arouse interest in younger (and much younger) females simply by *behaving* a lot more sexually dominant. You can too. Simply by behavior.
    6. What, precisely, are you doing to vastly improve your appearance? If not much, I refuse to believe that YOU believe what you say. At all. Not even in the slightest. Again, it is womanly to complain about appearance, and then not really do anything.”

    How do you know they were sexually interested in you? I talk to old, unattractive women if they’re pleasant enough, doesn’t mean I’m attracted to them, nor does it mean they are attracted to them. I probably remind them of their son or grandson. I’ve seen men much younger than you and decent-looking get hit with harassment suits. I’m not seeing sexually behavior being rewarded by women just because the man desires them. Sounds too much like those keyboard players you find in So suave and reddit.and heartiste.

    Dude, not every guy out there is obese. I’m slightly underweight but most of the guys I see successful with women are a lot more skinny when taking into consideration their height. Average height for the men my age from my Country is 5’8” I am 5’7”, younger men are taller than 5’8”. So you see there’s nothing I can do to vastly increase my appearance. I’m a mesomorph, the most difficult type of build to earn muscle or weight.

    And I can’t lift weights anyway, I have some health problems. My face is not bad, I draw looks from cute and sometimes hot women, but its not handsome enough for them to put out for me on the spot, and I reckon I’d waste a lot of time and money trying to get them to sleep with me. I have all of my hair, thick and lush in my late 20s, but thats about it. My dick is small, but its not like they’re going to see it, so it doesn’t matter.

  77. Men are expected to perform…

    It has always been that way. The difference is that there used to be societal rewards for that: respect, deference, property rights, etc. Even on the lower rungs of society. In the modern western world, for most men, those rewards are gone. But they are still expected to live up to their responsibilities. Today, the rewards come primarily only from within: ie, the internal rewards of self improvement.

  78. @Provessor

    I used to be an avid gamer. I am now working as a doctor in a hospital and make decent money. There’s been a trip somewhere in between those 2 sentences where I tried to grow up. I am not what you might call a catch but I have tried to learn from every experience in my life. I don’t even actively seek girls in my life but I have had my fair amount of successes.

    Looks, money, game all have their role in life. But I am a firm believer in the notion that you should be who you are. Whatever that person might be. The trick is to sell it and not change. After all I was even successful with girls when I was a gamer. I face women in the same way I face my mates and treat them in the same way I treat guys. No-one deserves your company or your affections and love if they are not good people.

    You can change a lot of things about you… Things you don’t even think are possible. I used to look at myself in the mirror and think that’s not who I wanted to be but rather be someone else. What I didn’t like, I threw away and what I liked or loved I kept with me. I wanted to improve on my knowledge of human psychology, I read books, I practiced with people. I wanted to become better at my field of study, I read some more and practiced some more. I wanted to be able to understand body language better to better help me with patients, I did that too. Now, I am trying to learn how to built a business and then implement it in real life. What all these things have in common are efforts to better myself.

    There is always excuses, I am exactly your same height. Most of the people where I live are taller than me, dare I say the majority of them are better looking than me. However, that doesn’t matter if at the end of the day. Because I simply don’t care. What I am not is not because I can’t but rather because I am not interested in being that someone. I just want to become who I want to be and set my reality in the world. As simple as that.

    I notice every day things are becoming easier with regards to women. The more I focus on myself and my self improvement, the more people take notice. It’s completely unintentional. It might even make you the odd one out. You will notice that the majority of people will be thinking you are the odd one out, the weird one, the one with strange beliefs and ideas. Fact of the matter is, I don’t care what people think and how they view me as a person. What matters is that when you look in the mirror you see what you want to see or as close to who you want to be and success with women follows. It follows completely unintentionally.

    I sincerely believe that every person needs a good time alone and I even say this to my female friends who can’t stay without dick for a long time. You need to be single, alone and reflect and understand who you are again. Every relationship injects in you a portion of another person’s personality and what you have to do is to reject it forcefully when you break up to become who you were and again who you want to be.

    People who are loners actually have this experience in abundance they are lacking self belief. Whereas there is people who may have been in successful relationships and I know a few, who have their self belief taken away from them once their relationship breaks down. In the end lacking self confidence and a strong sense of self.

    I will say everyone should look in the mirror every so often and reflect on everything they have done, where they stand and what they want to achieve. What is missing? This is not to make you happy but rather make you centred in at least who you are. That’s where everything begins and where everything ends in your relationships with the opposite sex. Or at least this is what I believe.

  79. @agent p.

    Women know PRECISELY what they are doing. They are the master class, amoral, manipulative, fickle, disloyal. Theese are the traits of a master not of a slave, my friends. Theese are the tools for management of men. Carefully designed, brilliantly used, and wisely masked.

    Master can be fickle, amoral, disloyal, cold hearted – she manages others. Slave must be loyal, dependent, predictable…otherwise he is dismissed. So are men. I have yet to find a woman/master that do not know what she is doing. Woman KNOW what she is doing, remember that! When she uses drama to tighten the rope, to catch you, to rob you of the remnants of your power, she know PRECISELY what and why she is doing it. When she plays the poor, little girls to inspire your protecting and self-sacrificing instincts, she KNOWS why she is doing it!

    Men are nothing but grabbing bags for women.

    Believe me my friends..women DO know precisely what they are doing, but being brilliant manipulators, they have enough sense to keep it to themselves. Otherwise they might be held RESPONSIBLE for it!

    And they want to be beyond rules, beyond responsibility! Masters are not responsible they are above laws. So they pretend that they .. do not uderstand their behaviour, do not understand their manipulations, lies, disloyalty, etc. Pooor children, they do not understand themsleves.

    They do not know that they are robbing you of your very property, children and peace of mind, brilliantly and wisely using every weapon they have?

    They are…ehm…scaaaared…so you, their heeerooo, go please there and fight animals/thief/enemy (and die for her). You DIE, she LIVES…and can fuck your victorious enemy/have children with him.

    Its is MEN – disposable drones, who do not know what they are doing.´when women are around. MEN have to be protected, therefore every religion curtailed every right women had to provide men with something and help them in this battle.

    Women use men as workers, protectors, slaves, providers..you name it. Small, very small minority of men can outsmart or escape from, women in the battle of sexes.

    I checked the abovementioned link – advocatus diaboli. This guy could be one of them.

  80. @ agent P, to absolve women of all accountability because of ‘nature’, is to completely play into their hands. They may deserve some, lee way on account of being the fairer sex (a title they are railing against, in preference of becoming ‘strong and independent’), but every human knows the difference between right and wrong. You liken them to animals, a snake of all creatures, and this is quite accurate, when they don’t pay heed to their higher functioning thoughts. There was a reason women were flogged publicly in the past, not just dismissed as ‘snakes gonna snake’.

  81. LOOKS>Game.
    Looks> Money.
    Looks>all.

    Looks are very important but will accomplish nothing unless you know how to use them, are self confident and know how to interact effectively.

  82. @haunted trilobite

    “but every human knows the difference between right and wrong.”

    Frustration stems from the perception of “right” and “wrong”. This is normal given what we are all brought up with and constantly reconditioned to believe. If woman’s hypergamy is “wrong”, then certainly our male sexual conquests including our fantasies (we all have plenty and many are “nasty”, some “perverted”, “fetish”, “eeeeeeewww!!” etc.) are also “wrong”.

    I am not condoning unbridled sexual irresponsibility here, but It’s much better to accept the normal instincts than beat ourselves to death trying to force fit “right” and “wrong” into our psyche. Clinging to “right” and “wrong” will never lead to happiness and there is nothing gained in martyrdom. Usually, there is nothing “wrong” with what we truly desire.

    “Right” and “wrong” seems like a safe insurance against pain of rejection. But it is not. It leads to the greater pains of isolation, loneliness, regret, misery and bitterness. Be careful not to let “right” and “wrong” automatically “pre-reject” you from opportunities.

  83. It’s not the constant having to perform and the DHV stuff that trips men up. It’s when they are/were lied to (aka brainwashed) for however many years by women saying “these things are what women want” – when these things do not actually turn her on.

    Yes, we are always performing. Yes we are always constantly striving to DHV. These things are inbuilt, we’ve always done it. The fail is where we were told the wrong things were HV – typically by a mother because we didn’t have any father, and no way was she gonna reveal what turned her on to her son’s…

    @Rollo – as some form of MGTOW I have come to realize that there are different flavors, one per person. Some walk completely away from women. Some don’t care too much – yet if a woman is interested and he likes her, he will take her into his life. Some just have sex with whores.

    Every person is an individual, every person has their own path, every person will do as they choose. Performing in their own way, they might be lucky enough to find a woman who likes their performance. They might even end up slowly “correcting” their performance to what women want, even if they don’t realize it themselves.

  84. Addendum: “These things are what women want” – in a man that they are attracted to.

    Not one hint from them about what makes them attracted. Probably because if they consciously knew it and told it they’d die from embarrassment.

Speak your mind

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s