Reader Keyser Soze had an interesting comment last week that I thought would be a good jump off point for today’s topic:
@Siirtyrion: You said, “Many scientists still go by this notion because it explains the frequent tradeoffs in mating and gives us a more complete picture for sexual selection as a whole. I understand that I uphold physicality as king, but understand that hypergamy isn’t completely about a short-term mating strategy, regardless of what some people may think. Women may be able to fund their our lives currently but rest assure, they still seek out Beta Bucks in other forms aside from monetary or material gain (i.e they still seek out physiological and emotional comfort from less than ideal males).”
Question for all:
Reading this, I had a thought. We often talk about women hitting the wall at 35ish and their sudden willingness to be me more reasonable with their expectations in a mate as they realize their SMV has decreased. I wonder if the above quote also plays into this. By the time women hit 35ish, historically (without modern methods of assisted conception) they are past their childbearing years. I wonder if their mating strategy changes at this age not only because of diminished SMV, but also because they are no longer looking for prime genetic material for reproduction as much as they are looking for “physiological and emotional comfort”. Perhaps this was implied all along, but I never thought about it this way before.
I hate to think this is going to come off as sympathy for the aging spinsters who had their cake in their youth and now, late in life, are looking to make honest amends for their past decisions, but it probably will.
A few months ago I broke-down Robin Korth’s aging sexual denial and in response we got a glimpse into the rationalization engine (a.k.a. the Hamster) at work in feminine solipsism:
My intent here isn’t to pick on Korth personally or really any woman in the post-Wall demographic in particular, but this self-insight is an excellent illustration of the feminine solipsism I often refer to on this blog. Furthermore, this sense of ego-blamelessness is then combined with the easy rationales and social conventions ready-made by the Feminine Imperative to affirm her self-importance.
Robin Korth should be reposing in the love of her husband of the past 35 years, give or take. She should be doting on children and grandchildren as the esteemed matriarch of her family.
Instead, Ms. Korth is still out there acting as if she’s 25 years old. She’s still trying to navigate the sexual and dating minefields. In the end she’s trying to show everyone (but really herself) that she’s still “got it”; that she can still arouse a man sexually. It is all really about self aggrandizement. It is all about self- validation and affirmation. In the end, it’s all about Robin Korth. It’s pathetic and sad, really.
And no, Ms. Korth, your life is not the result of what you think about yourself. You are what you do. You are NOT what you think, read, or write. You are not what you were or what you’d like to be.
You are what you do. Period. Full stop.
And from The Difficulty of Gaming Women by Age Brackets by (the old) Roissy:
36 to 38 year olds
She is at peace with her spinsterhood and her failure in the dating market. She will acquiesce easily and gratefully to sex with very little game, as long as you don’t look like a grandpa. Her expectations are so low, it will be a challenge to disappoint her.
If you are prone to guilt, you might feel it when you inevitably dump a woman in this age range. Don’t. Remind yourself that her past is littered with her insouciant dumping of many beta men before you. You are merely an alpha agent of righteous karma.
Granted, Robin is well past the 38 year old mark by over 20 years, however even at 59 the description is still remarkably apt in light of Deti’s overview, however, the real lesson here is for men.
There comes (or should come) a certain empowerment for men after a point of maturation in life where he grows into an understanding of how the Game is played by women. As I’ve noted in the past month, this game, the former secret of women’s dualistic sexual strategy, is becoming more and more of an open secret amongst a feminine-primary culture becoming increasingly more assured of its primacy. If anything this plan for women’s optimizing hypergamy is just this side of proudly flaunting it to men.
As I pick my way through exactly this ‘plan’ in writing the next book, I’ve actually become less surprised by so many examples I find of this willingness with which women will overtly share their strategy for assuring short-term Alpha sexual desires during their SMV peak, and then consolidation on the security a Beta provider represents as their SMV decays beginning at around 30 years of age.
My purpose in writing this next volume of The Rational Male is to make men aware of just this life-schedule and sexual strategy, but even with my own efforts and the glaring willingness with which women will now confirm it, a larger whole of men simply don’t mature into this overall understanding.
For all the education the Red Pill represents for men, the larger blue pill whole simply don’t want to accept the ugly reality of women’s sexual strategy even when women openly confirm this for them – or when they do it’s too late for anything but pensive self-reproach and then signing the alimony/child support check anyway.
As this understanding becomes more widespread some social change will have to follow. Men will either become so pathetic as to ‘normalize’ it for themselves, and personally identify with what amounts to their open (proactive or reactive) cuckolding under women’s grossly overt championing of their Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks sexual strategy – or Men will come to the realization (hopefully sooner than later) that the fantasy of monogamous bliss based on a notion of intergender compromise and the ‘give & take’ (but mostly give) they were sold on was never in the best interests of feminine-primacy.
The Feminine Imperative was (and is) only ever concerned with men’s imperatives or male-specific priorities insofar as they align with the superseding, primary imperatives of women. Thus, as open hypergamy becomes more common and the truth of this duplicity and imbalance (really disinterest) of mutual sexual imperatives becomes more evident, men will again (as with Game) evolve methods and mentalities to consolidate on their own imperatives or simply live in denial of it all.
The Long Game
For almost 6 months I’ve had this post from Cail Corishev bookmarked. It’s an excellent driver for exactly this point: prior to the digital age men tended not to play a long game when it came to socio-sexual strategies. The short game is all that matters in the moment, and all that stimulates, but until the advent of digital forums where men could figuratively compare notes, most men were simply unable, and perhaps too distracted to ask the obvious questions about women’s hypergamy and how it plays out over the course of 10-30 years and the roles women expect men to play during those stages of their lives in order to accommodate their strategy.
In Cail’s piece he describes a woman he knew at age 30 and how attractive she was, and his consideration of starting a relationship with her. After a failing interest and 10 years of no contact, she reinitiated with Cail:
But while we were chatting, I saw some of her recent pictures, and whoa! She’s gone from a 7-8 to maybe a 5, and that would be adjusted for age. She hasn’t gotten fat, but that’s about the only positive note. She looks so rough that I found myself wondering what I was thinking ten years ago, but I looked back at some old pictures, and she really was pretty at 30 — not a model or anything, but enough to turn heads. Now she looks like she’s lived 20 hard years in 10. She works nights at a pretty demanding job and has had some serious health problems, so I guess it’s no surprise, but it was really striking: ten years ago I ached for this girl, and now I wouldn’t look twice at her if I passed her in the grocery store.
That got me thinking about Rollo’s chart. My own SMV, as far as I can tell, hasn’t changed much from mid-30s to mid-40s, just as his chart would predict. I’m about the same weight, same build, maybe a little less hair, but I’d lost quite a bit of it already back then. I’m not much better-off financially, but at least not worse, and I have more of a sense of direction in my life. I’m certainly more confident, especially with women, and more established in my communities. So some pluses and some minuses, holding steady at about the same level. The amount of interest I get from women seems to support that.
She, on the other hand, going from 30 to 40, has gone from fertile to not likely. She’s also a grandmother now, so instead of looking to start a new family, she’s focused (and rightly so) on helping her kids with theirs. (If single moms don’t have much spare attention to give a husband, imagine the single mom of a single mom.) An additional ten years of dating and relationships under her belt certainly doesn’t add to her appeal. On top of those reasons, add the drastic decline in her looks, and now I not only don’t want to marry her, but as we chat I’m mostly thinking, “How soon can I politely say goodnight so I can get to sleep already?” Harsh, but true. Just as Rollo’s chart predicts, her SMV has been on a steady decline since we met — maybe more of a free-fall in her case — and now mine is well above hers.
I had a similar post to this I published back in December of 2011 – Protracted SMV:
It’s a simple matter to tell a guy he’s dodged a bullet in the cosmic scheme of things, but it’s altogether different to provably show him how he’s dodging it. For all the evils of facebook at least it gives him [men] an ability to see the forest for the trees, but the feminine can’t even afford him that. You must stay dumb, you must stay plugged-in for the feminine to maintain primacy. For all the benefits of a globally connected world, the feminine imperative expects you to accept a feminine-centric normalization of it.
What the Feminine Imperative fears is men becoming what Roissy terms Alpha Agents of Righteous Karma. Due to a lifetime of feminine conditioning, men tend to underestimate the leverage their SMV has in the context of women’s biological imperatives.
Pity for Reneé
I have a similar story to Cail’s. When I was a senior in high school I had a ‘friend‘ named Reneé, she was a gorgeous auburn-red head with a fantastic 17-18 year old body. We were good ‘friends‘ in the sense that it was clear I wasn’t ever going to see her naked and she had all of the personality trappings of a girl who knew she was attractive (she did modeling after high school), but also had the beginnings of a very self-important ego-invested feminist mind set.
I never really stayed in touch with her after graduation since by then I had moved on to women who enthusiastically reciprocated my interests and I moved along in life. It wasn’t until 2009 that I got on FaceBook and began having old friends look me up – Reneé was among the first. Very similar to the woman in Cail’s story we started to catch up with what the other had been doing through their 20s, 30s and now 40s.
As it turned out she was still fairly attractive for having had one daughter and never marrying the father, or any other guy for that matter. Most of the predictable single mommy issues and false-empowerment memes were bandied about by her, but the short version is here she was at 41 and her daughter was a year away from leaving for college. She was between jobs, but the one she had and the one she hoped to get were mediocre low to mid-management type, subsistence level employment.
She was and still is single 5 years later. The predictable questions about what my wife was like and how long we’ve been married came up, how we met, and where I’ve travelled in my work, etc. and I can honestly say I felt bad for her just recalling all of the life I’ve lived in the interim and basically forgot about her since high school.
She’s 46 now, and loves FaceBook as much as any aging spinster, but I really don’t want to call her that. In between the many pictures of her 4 cats (no lie) she occasionally posts some lament about how lonely she is now that her daughter has gone away to school and she comes home to an empty apartment these days. She makes not-so-subtle pleas to her FB community friends to set her up with ‘a great guy’ and all the dutiful Betas come out of the woodwork to tell her how pretty she (still) is and to keep her chin up and the right guy will “come along” – not so unlike the advice she gave me and at least half a dozen other guys I knew back in the day.
Reneé still clings to all of the feminist memes and mantras (reposts all the most popular), and complains of not being able to find a “great guy” anymore. This is of course infantile men’s faults for not manning up to her fem-correct standards, or else it’s a complaint about the ‘creepy’ men who really just want to bang her when she out with friends.
I hadn’t really ever considered using Reneé as a blog post subject until I read this article in Psychology Today:
According to a new survey released this month, your odds of winning the cash would increase if you skipped any 40-something, single female professionals and focused on the middle-aged male managers with one child at home and a wife who works part-time. In its Office Pulse survey, Captivate Network, a media solutions company, says its uncovered “profiles of the happiest and unhappiest workers.” And here it is:
- 39 years old
- Household income between $150,000 and $200,000
- In a senior management position
- 1 young child at home
- A wife who works part-time
And the unhappiest profile?:
- 42 years old
- Unmarried (and no children)
- Household income under $100,000
- In a professional position (doctor, lawyer, etc.)
Minus the professional status, essentially Reneé fits the profile for the most unhappy person in the western world today. Now, return back to Robin Korth’s comment, her life is the result of what she thinks of herself. What does this say about the decision making both she and Reneé have made in their lives?
I can’t say I have any sympathy for the likes of Korth, but for Reneé I do feel a pang of pity (in spite of Roissy’s advice for women of this age). For all of the accusations of red pill “misogyny” I genuinely do like women, and I’m not rooting for them to smash into the Wall. However I can see why my observations make this seem so – hard truths are often warnings that we don’t like to heed.
I often wonder if women of this profile aren’t as much victims of an ideological conditioning as Betatized men are over the course of their lives. Much of what’s resulted in Reneé’s life are the consequences of having (and still subscribing to) a mindset that’s based on equalist individualism, and she’s now beginning to reap what she’s sown – knowingly or not.
I don’t know the father of her daughter, but my red pill instincts (and knowing how hot she used to be) tell me the guy was likely a pump and dump Alpha bad boy. Reneé never struck me as the type to ‘settle’ on a Beta provider because she was too headstrong and independent® for that – she was certainly hot enough to attract the Alphas and independent enough to never consider a Beta for a relationship.
So my observation is this; while granting that women’s decisions are their own, and they should in all ways be accountable for the consequences that follow from them, how much of those decisions are based on a conditioning that promotes an idealized ideology of feminine, equalist independence?
For the same reason I can’t entirely fault a man with an internalized blue pill mindset over his conditioning, shouldn’t we also consider that women are likewise mislead by a similar influence? Are we (again) giving women too much credit for being rational independent agents under different circumstance?
For men’s part, it’s hardly avoidable that we become Alpha Agents of Righteous Karma by default for women in this cohort. Perhaps not as Alpha as we’re perceived, but as our SMV ascends in our 30s and (sometimes) through our 40s, it’s almost unavoidable that, even with a baseline of ambition, we’re seen as more desirable long term prospects.
In all honesty, were I to find myself single tomorrow, Reneé or women like her would never make my ‘to date’ list. Women love to complain that mature men really aren’t, and all they want is a young girl to fuck and coo for them. I would argue that men in my demo (at least should) have the depth of experience to know what the Feminine Imperative (and its social arm feminism) has bred and conditioned into women, and we honestly don’t want the hassle of dealing with it.
There is precious little reward for a man, and no appreciation, for having a big enough heart to save a woman from the consequences of her past decisions. That’s not meant as a callous punishment, just simple pragmatism.
As I stated in The Threat,
Nothing is more threatening yet simultaneously attractive to a woman than a man who is aware of his own value to women.
When you’ve spent your whole life attempting to ‘have it all’ on your own, perhaps men can’t help but be an agent of Karma when that ‘all’ includes a man’s participation.
Thought provoking post as always. To highlight a point you made “I can’t say I have any sympathy for the likes of Korth, but for Reneé I do feel a pang of pity … I’m not rooting for them to smash into the Wall. However I can see why my observations make this seem so – hard truths are often warnings that we don’t like to heed.” This really struck a chord with me. It’s actually a ridiculous shame because I feel like a lot of girls with “potential” (good heart, good looks, feminine etc) get screwed up along the… Read more »
I was unexpectedly single at 43. I made all of the mistakes, as a blue pill doofus, but what I quickly learned was that I was supposed to repair (for my dates) the results of their 20 years of strong independent freedom. Even I, doofus, could figure out the right response: “If you want me to fix the last 20 years of your life, would you please give me back the last 20 of mine? Because I just spent 20 years taking care of other people while you were living it up.” I stumbled around a bit, very expensively, but… Read more »
The Myth, the reality is (I’m a midwesterner who has made his living in DC and NYC) that educated women are more concerned with what other women think of them, than what a lover thinks of them. We are a secondary cohort, today. This is evident even with a good girl from North Dakota with a proper heart. She’s going to act on the direction of her left brain — please the gurrls — before she acts on what is true in her heart. So the game is to recognize this and manage both impulses, if one is interested in… Read more »
As usual, this is right on point. I agree that the majority of women are conditioned to expect men to be available for whatever purpose they wish whenever they wish it. I have seen little evidence that the average woman analyzes this any further than to make a determination that she is owed “a real man” whenever she decides she’s ready to hop off the carousel. In fact, I’ve overheard 30-something women telling girls in their 20’s to sleep with a bunch of guys and get it out of their system before they settle down with a guy who is… Read more »
Great article, Rollo, and I agree with your premise. I once asked myself the question why, if being beta does not work to attract women, do men still overwhelmingly act beta. The answer is that society teaches them that if they act beta, they will attract a woman. Boys are taught from an early age that if they ever want to get married (ie. have sex) they will need to get a job and treat a woman right. The boys who are most susceptible to societal messaging are the ones who internalize this message the most. The boys who do… Read more »
I’ll just leave this here.
Jeremy, read the first chapter of any romance novel. Women know exactly what they want.
A woman’s solipsism prevents introspection. So even though her predicament is the result of her own life choices, she will blame the alphas who pumped and dumped her and the betas who bored and annoyed her.
The feminine imperative is ‘out’ about hypergamy but assumes that it and the rest of its equalist empowerment will lead to some endpoint of fulfillment.
I recently googled a woman who is 55 and I knew her 20 years ago. She was ok then but somewhat plump. She is now obese and hideous and never married. I on the other hand don’t look very different 20 years later.
Your compassion shines through.
Should tenth line from bottom read “honestly do [not] want…”?
thanks for that catch Bonkti
Jeremy- “I do not believe it is due to a feminist conspiracy to have disposable betas lying around awaiting women to hit the wall. No, it is because WOMEN THEMSELVES believe their own crap.”
Oh, I see. It’s not intentional, it’s just the result of thoughtless, selfishness therefore it’s OK. Since incompetence is often identical to malice the only thing that matters is results.
As for empathy I’m gonna have to first see some of that from the other side. I won’t be holding my breath.
“For the same reason I can’t entirely fault a man with an internalized blue pill mindset over his conditioning, shouldn’t we also consider that women are likewise mislead by a similar influence?” Yup. But at a certain point, the women have to take responsibility for where they’ve ended up and figure things out. “In all honesty, were I to find myself single tomorrow, Reneé or women like her would never make my ‘to date’ list.” Bear in mind you will never be able to declare yourself “single” again. You can only be “separated” or “divorced.” And as I wrote before,… Read more »
Kate: “But regardless, divorced women should not attempt to date single men for a variety of reasons. They should marry divorced men.”
Somebody ban me if I ever try to tell someone else what to do, without bothering with the pesky “why” part. Since I’m not an oracle, etc.
As always, a very interesting read Rollo. As a man gets on a bit he learns to be very glad his prayers were not answered 10-15-20 years ago. I’ve also had a chance to reconnect with several woman from the past in recent years, one, at 18 had the power to turn most men into gibbering fools with just a smile, now she’d scare the hell out of them. When we reconnected over Facebook a couple of years ago the change in her appearance shocked me, I did not recognize her at all. The only thing that had not changed… Read more »
Ronin: “I wish I had a dollar for every glare I get from 40+ women when I’m with a woman much younger in public.” I take my daughter to ’21’ or similar places in NYC. The tables in the Club Room are close by each other. The last time, some matron to my left was *ELBOWING* me. All the defeated husbands were staring, spittle practically dripping down their chins. Fucking pathetic. We had desert with another couple (my age) who asked “How did you meet?” “I fell in love with her 25 years ago today (it was her birthday). Love… Read more »
Ronin, I am 60 and in great shape. When I run on the beach without my shirt I am rightfully ignored by the sub 30’s, RBF’ed by the 30-40’s, aggressively glared at by the 40-50’s, and once again ignored by the post-menopausal 50+’s. The only ones who smile are the fuglies of all ages, who in reply get a smile and a tip o’ the hat with a middle finger from me.
Such is life…
Reneé still had her kid, and presumably was even paid for it. That’s her life mission fulfilled, if she wasn’t complaining about not having a man she’d be complaining about having one.
I believe two factors are the cause (and aggravation) of what we see happening to women in the lows of SMV (as they get older) and open room for “Alpha Agents of Righteous Karma” to grow. These two factors are: the vast ecological changes that the West has been facing and a woman’s innate prime directive. I’ll cover the ecological factor first because this is the one factor which currently drives a woman’s innate prime directive even further. Take into account what I’ve written before: …because of the economically prosperous, systemically mediated welfare state dynamic that prevails in developed world… Read more »
I’ve considered the sympathy question on occasion. Ultimately I find it difficult to even feel the slightest sadness for any of these women. I certainly agree with the sentiment of @badpainter 3:25. Another important factor, though, is that I hardly ever see women trying to teach younger women to avoid their mistakes (excepting Susan Patton, and even she may simply be seeking wives for her college aged sons). Throughout the manosphere men describe their struggles and advise the next generation on solutions. Is there anything like this for women? Do lonely forty y/o former party girls tell young women to… Read more »
It’s amazing how many times these exact scenarios have played out in my life. I’m 38 and my SMV has definitely been increasing over the past several years however I still enjoy dating the occasional woman in her mid 30s. I just ended a mini-relationship with a very beautiful woman in Mexico, 34, and easily an 8 in face and body. She could tell the wall was near and was very nervous about finding someone to take care of her. In her twenties she grew bored and left her older millionaire husband despite the fact that he took her in… Read more »
Someone tried to warn the younger girls back in the late 70’s
(you’ll have to excuse the fashion faux pas!)
Great article. Just because women are susceptible to the same societal conditioning men are doesn’t mean we have to forgive them for their choices. There are plenty of men who will gladly do that anyway.
I’m with Buena Vista on this: “Everybody needs to own their own behavior, past and present.” I’ve been banging this same drum lately, because more and more women are seeking to excuse their own behavior and are getting lots of help from everyone else in doing so. That’s not going to fly with me. If others consistently call me to account for everything I do and have done, then women won’t escape that same accountability, at least not with me. Whatever a woman does or has done, that’s what comprises who she is now. If you were a lazy sloth,… Read more »
There is precious little reward for a man, and no appreciation, for having a big enough heart to save a woman from the consequences of her past decisions. This sums it up. I still don’t know why, as men, we struggle to acknowledge the fact that women & marriage are both inherently bad deals for men. That resources invested rarely equals or exceeds resources returned. And I can’t understand why we should feel for sorry for someone who at one point in her life was saying “ewwwww” while turning up her nose at good men, with no understanding that one… Read more »
> divorced women should not attempt to date single men
>for a variety of reasons.
>They should marry divorced men.
Wow. It takes all types to make the world go round!
Ummm, whatever happened to the concept of getting out of the house, meeting males and screening them for things like intelligence, appearance, social and general life togetherness, humor, good in bed . . . you know, all those things that *actually* relate to whether you’d be good together rather than some weird factor like whether the guy has been previously married . . .
Its always the most beautiful ones that end up alone. The beauty breeds social dysfunction, then the beauty fades-the dysfunction doesn’t.
Rollo, As you note: I often wonder if women of this profile aren’t as much victims of an ideological conditioning as Betatized men are over the course of their lives. Much of what’s resulted in Reneé’s life are the consequences of having (and still subscribing to) a mindset that’s based on equalist individualism, and she’s now beginning to reap what she’s sown – knowingly or not. I believe this is the point we are beginning to see in society now, where the feminine imperative and the feminist imperative diverge (e.g. disillusioned women, red pill women, women against feminism, etc.). As… Read more »
Rollo- “For the same reason I can’t entirely fault a man with an internalized blue pill mindset over his conditioning, shouldn’t we also consider that women are likewise mislead by a similar influence? Are we (again) giving women too much credit for being rational independent agents under different circumstance?” I think this is likely true. But I wonder at the abstract ethics of how men should then proceed. Is the Redpill aware man now ethically obligated to behave differently? Is the question of a woman’s independent agency really even relevant when the social structures default that women can choose to… Read more »
Rollo, Another one hit out of the park! I’m inspired to comment and say how much I appreciate your writings and the ideas expressed. I have lived a life pretty much by alpha standards and am discovering that the ‘manosphere’ is codifying ways of behavior I have long considered just basic common sense. It’s interesting to me to find concepts and words behind so many of my instinctual actions. I do hear a lot of anger and bitterness from many of your commenters. Let me say as an over the hill guy (I’m 67) that there can be light far… Read more »
@Badpainter, Is the Redpill aware man now ethically obligated to behave differently? Certainly not. My consideration here is are we making the same mistake of appealing (or even just wanting to appeal) to women’s reason after-the-fact and after the consequences have already taken place? You know I leave ethics up to my readers, but If anything, ethically, it seems men ought to abandon women to the fate they created for themselves. However, what about the women who avoided that fate by cashing in their SMV chips before the casino closed for them? For example, ethically, my wife’s sister deserves an… Read more »
@funoldguy, thanks for commenting.
I wonder at the abstract ethics of how men should then proceed. Is the Redpill aware man now ethically obligated to behave differently? Is the question of a woman’s independent agency really even relevant when the social structures default that women can choose to be or not to be their own agents? One of the best pieces of advice I ever received was: “Treat a lady like a lady, a woman like a woman, and a whore like a whore. And learn to tell the difference.” For the life of me, I can’t see why some (many?) people find this… Read more »
For the life of me, I can’t see why some (many?) people find this old-fashioned good sense to be even slightly controversial.
Because not all women can be ladies and many can’t even be women. If you bring all women down to the same level, then supposedly everyone will be happy. Only this is obviously just not so.
The truly unhappy women are the ones who missed their calling in life to be a wife and mother. Whether they were suckered into it or whether they willingly bought into the rationalizations really doesn’t matter. What matters for society is that they ended up there and are voting their feelings to the detriment of the rest of us. Check out the single woman vote for Obama vs the other demographics. It’s telling that some stats were saying that 25% of older women are on anti-depressants. Maybe that’s not the right number, but it’s a significant symptom. Meaning if one… Read more »
Rollo- “…but If anything, ethically, it seems men ought to abandon women to the fate they created for themselves. However, what about the women who avoided that fate by cashing in their SMV chips before the casino closed for them?” I agree the practical ethics is to be responsible for that which one is truly responsible for. The fate of post wall single women is no where near my own list of personal obligations, not even a generic sympathy. Likewise it’s not my job to exact justice on those who successfully cheated the system at the expense of others. Perhaps… Read more »
So much of pop culture and mass media(mainly tv) caters to women that it’s not just shy of flaunting, it’s here. Like the pop diva catered to for everything, they quickly get comfortable not only asking for far fetched list of items on their rider, they feel very comfortable in announcing it and how much they’re deserving of it. The mating strategy changing to emotional comfort would still be due in large to smv decline. Because if the smv would stay high, that high genetic material would still remain within grasp. Like the woman who claims she can get any… Read more »
Deti: “If others consistently call me to account for everything I do and have done, then women won’t escape that same accountability, at least not with me. Whatever a woman does or has done, that’s what comprises who she is now.” Agreed again, but my reflection is how transgressive this is today. In the 30 year-old movie, Walter Hill’s The Long Riders, I was jarred by the passionate and explicit relationship of Keith Carradine and his (beautiful, by far the most beautiful woman in the movie) prostitute girlfriend. Per usual, she decides it’s time to retire from the trade. She’s… Read more »
Unfortunately mainstream lib media will extol Korth et al. as maverick trailblazers battling against the shackles imposed by a ‘loving and caring’ husband . It seems beta-loathing truly knows no limits! The hard truth is that these women possess nothing remotely resembling learned wisdom as their cliched self-characterization would have us believe. They inhabit worlds strewn with psychological defense mechanisms shielding them from brutal but patently obvious truths – an existence rife with rationalization and euphemism. This life changing ‘self-acceptance’ Korth purports to be enjoying at age 60 is not coincidental. It follows the denial and anger at her sexually… Read more »
Jeremy Ph.D notes: “Therefore, other than a handful of pleasant memes, platitudes, and feel-goods to emotionally influence their acceptance of the ideology, feminine women do not ultimately get any more real-life satisfaction from this arrangement than men.” I don’t think they mind much. We see the absurdity of this arrangement, again, in popular culture. Amazon Prime gives away one of four books chosen by their editors each month. So they are choosing novels that they believe are both popular and ‘significant’ within a few verticals. I’m laid up with way too much time on my hands, so a research interest… Read more »
I cringe now days when I see women out today pounding drinks and sleeping with new guys every week. Sure they are having fun but that wall is going to hit at some point and the harder they go the earlier that wall hits. Majority of women are doing this. For guys they shoot themselves in the foot by denying their SMV and by giving their power away to women and others. They lack the true self esteem that drives them to make something of themselves. Let’s be real, most men have lots of self doubt and are willing to… Read more »
@Siirtyrion. Seriously good stuff. That is exactly what is happening. The 10% high status alphas are like Jesus Christ to women. Only the alphas are worthy to receive the good sex, only the alpha can save them from a life of misery and boredom. Listen to how women talk about celebrities and it’s like omg are you fucking kidding me!! Women of all age groups are effected by this phenomenon as you pointed out. Very bizarre.
” ..all the dutiful Betas come out of the woodwork to tell her how pretty she (still) is and to keep her chin up and the right guy will “come along” .. “
Those sound more like merry roissyard pranksters than sackless obliging herbs to me, mister.
“Just keep flippin’ the coin, dahling, one day it will land on its edge. Because you’re worth it. Trust me.”
This is by far the best article I’ve ever read in the sphere. It’s destilled red pill wisdom.
Keep up the good work, Rollo!
I’ll just leave these right here:
“Therefore, other than a handful of pleasant memes, platitudes, and feel-goods to emotionally influence their acceptance of the ideology, feminine women do not ultimately get any more real-life satisfaction from this arrangement than men. In fact, much of the true feminine imperative was actually better served under the traditional sex role paradigm, than it is by the feminist imperative now. That is why we are seeing such dissatisfaction and “glitches in the matrix”, even for the feminine women it is “supposed to” empower.” Women’s hypergamy was not served better under the traditional sex role paradigm or they wouldn’t have abandoned… Read more »
Part of breaking out of the Matrix and truly swallowing that bitter Red Pill is to let go of the white knight beliefs that I could have been the one to truly make her happy. All that you write is true and Karma is a bitch. But my renewed focus has been on my own happiness and inner confidence. This has in turn lead me towards meeting and banging younger women whose optimism seems to compliment my maturity and seasoned experience. There is another pressure that Blue Pill guys face: dating “age appropriate” women. But have you noticed that these… Read more »
Every time I take a walk in the morning on a week day I always see groups of women (2 or 3 or more) in there tight yoga pants chatting it up and laughing with their girlfriends
Of course you do where they’re in a group. They are in an unspoken competition as to who is the happiest. Don’t watch them in groups, watch them when they are alone, especially if they are walking home alone in the morning after going out to party the night before. They don’t call it the walk of shame for nothing.
I have an overall theory of AFBB, and how the hamster rationalizes it. Yes, AFBB is women’s preferred sexual strategy. But no woman intentionally sets out to hurt men (or herself) by pursuing it. Most of the time, the strategy doesn’t work to get her what she wants – early commitment from a high status, attractive man. First, I think AFBB is the corollary to the male strategy of “have sex with lots of hot sluts who will give it up for little effort and work all that out of your system; then settle down with a nice, cute enough… Read more »
Buena Vista: “Because you’re a *whore*, Belle. And you always will be.” “it clearly doesn’t respect her totally awesome naked form, it’s not her fault that the love of her life leaves bank notes on her dresser, she should have an invitation to the town dance like any other girl,” I agree that today, you just can’t say this to a woman. A couple of times I’ve heard women say words to the effect of “well, having sex before marriage is just de rigueur”. One woman said, quote, “I wouldn’t think that her having had a lot of boyfriends [we… Read more »
Deti said: “Any guy who deviates from this, who wants her to commit, is “hurting” her. He’s weird, he’s odd, he’s “insecure”, he’s “jealous”, he’s a pussy, he’s “creepy”. So if he gets hurt, well, then he deserves it. Serves him right, to her way of thinking.” I posed a question earlier in the comments wondering if women later regret getting rid of the disposable beta males who actually cared for them earlier in their life when chasing high status men has failed to work out for them the way they thought it would. After some thought, I’m not sure… Read more »
BangoTango: “Every time I take a walk in the morning on a week day I always see groups of women (2 or 3 or more) in there tight yoga pants chatting it up and laughing with their girlfriends, sometimes pushing a baby stroller and/or sipping a latte. The women can be in there 20’s, 30’s, 40’s, 50’s doesn’t matter. Always look like they are having the time of their lives.” True this. They are self-validating and consequently at their most vicious. They are then best treated as invisible. If you happen to make eye contact, you will be eviscerated by… Read more »
You know I leave ethics up to my readers, but If anything, ethically, it seems men ought to abandon women to the fate they created for themselves… Rollo
Yep the more pain they suffer the faster they will fix their shit. The younger the suffer, the faster they will fix their shit. Without this emotional pain women have no need to change their behavior
Keyser: I think it all comes down to the fact that women believe that AFBB doesn’t hurt anyone. They believe that you’re out there having sex with cuties when you feel like it, just like ALL OTHER MEN do. So if they are out there having sex with hawt men and going for the longshot odds at commitment with one of them, no harm no foul. Everyone’s doing it. Nobody’s getting hurt unless they’re playing the game wrong. Nobody’s getting hurt unless a guy wants “commitment” when she doesn’t, for whatever reason. So if she hurts him, it’s because he… Read more »
Keyser: I have never — not once — known a woman to regret dumping a A Good Man, a Nice Guy, or even a Drafthorse Provider. We do it all the time (or at least, if still blue pill, do), by comparison, but women have a desirability meter, and once her interest level drops below some mysterious threshold, they are so done. Then they celebrate with their real mates — other women — their ability to dump a guy. It’s empowering for them. A woman like Korth, who is probably attractive to some 75 year-old guy who enjoys being lectured… Read more »
re: “it’s evolutionarily better for a female to risk it all on the attractive man”
This hypothesis has never been proven. In fact, there is empirically at best very very weak and contradictory evidence.
Good to see your alive. People were worried.
I think you make an interesting point. Too many people assume if it’s nature it must be for the good. Strikes me as the ultimate rationalization because disease is natural and yet we humans fight like hell to stop it.
Well, disproving my prior thesis, this woman is riven with neglect for dumping the lumpy beta who worshiped her pedestalized butt:
It’s a concise summary of so many red pill observations, and delivered without the slightest self-awareness by the female confessor, that in any anthropology of intersexual relations it has to be considered a primary text (same category as the Katie Bolick piece in The Atlantic a couple of years ago).
errr, “riven with regret” not neglect.
Badpainter asks again “Is the Redpill aware man now ethically obligated to behave differently?” and I have, finally, decided: No. Personally my moral obligations, maybe *especially* those governing my interactions with worldly women, are set forth in the principles of Christianity, which haven’t changed even though the worldliness of women has changed. This is not to say that my being a Good Man will work well with women, because it doesn’t work well with women.
@Badpainter, as Liz and others kept reminding me, it’s too easy for those of us with susceptible personalities to get too wrapped up in the social aspects of commenting, so I had to quit. Plus, all the aspects about trying to be badder etc. just wasn’t me, and although it was fun I can’t actually advocate for being badder (even though it works better).
What do you see as being bad? Are these your perception of bad or perceptions that you have picked up along the way?
@ Buena Vista: Regarding the “woman is riven with [regret] for dumping the lumpy beta who worshiped her pedestalized butt”: Only because she ended up alone, or with a man “less than”. On the other hand, I’ve seen flashes of introspection from a woman or two who lost out at AFBB and married beta providers they aren’t attracted to. One was quite the stunner in her day, but age, stress, use of intoxicants of various kinds, and weight yo-yo-ing have taken their toll over the years. At 44, she’s been married 13 years but has ended up childless because she… Read more »
I often wonder about those lonely hearts club articles in the DailyFail. They just seem so… contrived. It is as if a red pill writer is trolling; authoring these as parody, satire or inside joke.
Reality…the ultimate red pill! Brilliant stuff brother. I can see the feminine primacy becoming more aggressive over the next 5-10yrs. Especially here in developing / emerging economies (I’m from Kenya). Nowadays societal discourse centers around “women are doing it”, “men should step up”, and so on. Extra marital affairs, especially those instigated by women are on the increase, and so is the single mother phenomenon. I think reality will hit harder here where there is still attachment to traditional values. Women don’t realize that men at some point will just say, ‘Enough’ & ‘no thanks…I’m good!’ It may not be… Read more »
Deti, they seem so obviously contrived, but I think the reality is that most women consider such unselfconscious testimonies “brave”, and their real mission is to articulate feelings, rather than insight or evidence. I mean, the tl;dr version of that story is “I bailed on the boring guy, nailed bad guys instead, now I’ve hit the wall childless.” But summarizing in this fashion would lead a normal person to ask “You’re pretty stupid and self-centered, eh?” So we get a mile of breathless purple prose describing tragedy. Put another way, I think even SIW are convinced that their lives should… Read more »
We reap what we sow. I have zero sympathy for the Renee’s and Korths of the world. How can anyone believe women like them could possibly be caring and sensitive enough about others to appreciate true consideration from a “great guy”. After 10, 20 or 30 + years of callous hypergamy? Suddenly, they have become sensitive and respectful of the need for a “great guy”? Do not be fooled. They are still the same crap they were when they were younger. They now employ a very predictable shit ass scam by indirectly advertising they “care”, now they “understand what really… Read more »
@Stringray, by bad I mean objectively evil. Ungodly, unholy, ungood. Romans 1:29-31 gives one summary list of characteristics of a bad man, and suffices for the purposes here. The more a man acts bad, including being irrationally violent, thieving, lying, murdering, adulterous, and the list goes on, the better women will treat him.
“This is not to say that my being a Good Man will work well with women, because it doesn’t work well with women.”
Disagree. Being a Good (righteous, upstanding, honest) Man (boldness, brashness, fearlessness, confidence, dominance, power) works well. With everything.
“The meek shall inherit the earth…”
Far more often than not the scripture above is misconstrued, misrepresented, misinterpreted. misused for control of the masses. Common misunderstanding is that humility and meekness will be rewarded. The strong, confident, unafraid to step forward and fight in the face of adversity, to stand up for themselves and speak out against popular lies will inherit “the kingdom of heaven”….who would want to inherit earth with its cesspool of lies and mortality?… this is what is meant by the scripture.
@deti, your opinion is nice, but wrong. Empirically an unrighteous, sneaky, dishonest man will have many more girlfriends who will treat him much better.
…but religion is no consolation or solution…. The Magicians Rapture I have heard stories often sold For today and times of old Over many thousand years To bear upon hopes and fears Beseeching all to hear good news While kneeling in the chambered pews Where the languid count their beads To mock resolve and quell their needs Wrapped within a woven scheme Spun upon their hopes and dreams Lies a promise delivered hollow Empty souls are sure to follow To be lost in battles fought For cryptic fortunes sought Betrayed the heart is diverted When words of truth are perverted… Read more »
Without getting too far into this, I don’t agree with you. It’s not the Good part that guys have a problem with. It’s the Man part. Girls don’t mind a man’s Goodness — can take or leave it. They mind a man’s lack of masculinity, his lack of “Man-ness”.
Most Christian males are, or tend toward, Good, but they’re not Men.
It’s much easier for a man to learn to be Good, and to be Good; than it is for him to learn to be a Man.
No….sexually they want a “bad boy”….NOT a “good boy”..
If you don’t believe this…observe….
You can tame a lion but you cannot put a lion into a lamb…
Oh I’m sooo good…when I’m bad…
Do women like “bad boys” because “bad boys” are men with feminine psychology?
Most of the “bad boys” I’ve known who were also popular with the ladies had the same basic pathological behaviors as women. Impulsive, dishonest, narcissistic, unreliable, opportunistic, ambiguous, and no personal agency. The only real difference was in the tendency toward physical violence.
Women don’t hit the wall at 36. They hit the wall at 25. At that age they already have the 1000 yard-long stare, aka, the pissed off look from being pumped and dumped by Alphas. They’re also ugly behind the make-up, their body is saggy, and those tight pants and what not hide physical flaws. It also doesn’t help that most women spend their teens up to their 30s drinking, doing coke, and partying all night. That adds up to them turning 25 and looking like 40. As for the rest, sure. That is true. Physicality is king(height/handsome face/symmetrical body… Read more »
Don’t forget to be unforgiving. A woman looks at you? She’s hot? So what? No matter how hot a woman is, there’s some guy out there tired of paying for her shit or tired of dealing with her. Most of the hot women rarely ever see their high value boyfriends, those guys only show up to empty their balls on their girlfriends, so don’t be the sucker who is the emotional nurturer and professional blue-baller. How to prevent yourself from ending up like this? Look angry. Women can’t manipulate their environment. Men use tools, persistence and our brains. Women use… Read more »
”Most Christian males are, or tend toward, Good, but they’re not Men.” I’m sorry, bro, but lets take the Ancient Greeks for example. Most of them disliked women for they knew the real nature of women. They only spent time with women when it was time to mate. it is the modern man who makes it feel like the only way to be a man is if he gets laid or if he does something that makes him look masculine, i.e bodybuilding. Then again, Socrates and his ilk could probably bench-press you to death and they didn’t bother with machismo… Read more »
Part of the “attraction” might be that “badboys” are men with some feminine traits like impulsiveness and lack of agency. But I think women like bad boys because bad boys tend to be rules breakers and they tend not to care what others think of them. The “independence” and aloofness are considered masculine. Most women are used to men kowtowing to them, giving them whatever they want, caving in to their demands. “Badboys” won’t do that, which can trigger or increase attractiveness.
Do women like “bad boys” because “bad boys” are men with feminine psychology?
No…”bad boys” (the ones who get laid with most any girl they want, etc.) are not men with feminine psychology. They are men who really don’t give a shit what any female thinks of them and aren’t controlled in the least by feminine psychology.
Whatever. Fact is, most men today are not Men. They’re Good, but they’re not Men. They’re not bold or brash. They cower at adversity or conflict. They fear everything. They favor consensus at all cost. They seek safety, not adventure. They cannot control even their own bodies.
It all has to do with your priorities. Do not put them or their sexuality upon a pedestal.
Nothing has changed from yesteryear…”The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation” Henry D. Thoreau 1854
“Do lonely forty y/o former party girls tell young women to recognize the value of their youth before it’s too late?” Never. These post-wall women jump at the chance to lay tinder (pun intended) at the feet of those younger versions of themselves so that their youth and beauty and hope will be immolated to fuel hedonistic pursuits and impulsive indulgences. Worse, sooner or later those charred remains will be repackaged and lofted up like some badge of strength and independence and the deluded mares will cheer her on once again while the men continue to avert their eyes and… Read more »
Reblogged this on Life, Music, Musings, Reformational Worldview and commented:
When it comes to women, it’s pretty simple; when you hit your late 50s, not a lot of men are gonna be too attracted to your body.
I honestly feel some sympathy for her, but it’s all even further downhill from here.
Of college educated Gen X women 43% are childless, 25% are predicted to be childless by 40. Forty percent over 50 are single, not to mention the glut of single mothers. Marriage age gap is shrinking ( the bigger the gap the better for men, it’s demographically the equivalent of having more females, the smaller the gap the worse it is for men) and slowly women are marrying younger men (currently 14%). As far as I can see this does not auger well for men, it’s just creating a sea of lonely betas. Alphas aren’t visiting karmic revenge on women… Read more »
@Buena Vista Deti beat me to it, but the truth is, again, she does not regret leaving BetaBoy. She regrets ending up alone when she thought she was going to be able to trade up. @Deti I tend to agree that the real issue is not “niceness” or “Bad Boyness”…..it’s sheer masculinity. The fact that the West and the Western church as a whole breeds all masculinity out of men is a clear sign that they have no idea who the Middle Eastern born Savior was. A man that was able to cleanse His temple of money changers by Himself… Read more »
”Prof: Whatever. Fact is, most men today are not Men. They’re Good, but they’re not Men. They’re not bold or brash. They cower at adversity or conflict. They fear everything. They favor consensus at all cost. They seek safety, not adventure. They cannot control even their own bodies.” Brash and bold men usually end up dead or without a limb or two. World war I was filled with young volunteers who wanted to impress the ladies, gain glory, and the respect of their friends, and what most got out of it was an early death, or a return home without… Read more »
”They cannot control even their own bodies.” Who can? I can’t control how tall I am or how healthy I’m going to be in the future. heart disease, cancer, Alzheimer and all of that is already decided for me. I can’t do anything about it so I don’t bother thinking about it. It reflects in real life, this viewpoint. I don’t suffer from sexual frustration because I don’t desire what I can’t have. What do I want? What am I attracted to? To younger versions of Claudia Schiffer. Heck, I think I’d do her even at her current age. Can… Read more »
”His temple of money changers by Himself with only a whip, and no one seemed to be able to stop Him. A man that called out the religious leaders of His day and called them vipers and snakes right to their faces.” Yeah, about that. Jesus Christ died a virgin. So did Peter and if I recall it correctly, the guy told men to stay away from women, to only deal with women if they really needed to get laid, and to do it within the realm of marriage. What is considered masculinity by the mansphere is dying out in… Read more »
Peter did not die a virgin; he was married. Matthew 8:14.
Jesus didn’t speak that much about marriage; what He did say was, how permanent it is in His eyes, and how men can’t divorce their wives unless sexual immorality is involved. Matthew 19:1-11. Also, that there’s no marriage after the resurrection Mark 12:25.
Paul was the one who said it wasn’t good to touch a woman 1 Corinthians 7:1, but if you can’t control your urges, it’s better to marry than to burn with lust 1 Corinthians 7:9.
@Professor You claim to have adapted yourself to not care about being with women,yet here you are on a blog for men about gender relations spilling thousands of words imploring others to espouse a dislike and contempt for women. If you truly don’t care about women, why spend so much time talking about it? I see parallels between you and Korth. It seems that you both desire intimate relations with the opposite sex, but since that hasn’t worked out in the desired way you convince yourself that you’re better off without it and feel the need to push it as… Read more »
“You know I leave ethics up to my readers, but If anything, ethically, it seems men ought to abandon women to the fate they created for themselves… Rollo” When I was a younger man I used to believe the stories I heard about what a bastard their X’s were and how it was never their own fault, hook, line and sinker. The simplest laws of probability should have told me the odds simply did not line up for that scenario. The problem in our present Betaworld is women are rarely expected to take responsibility for their actions and there is… Read more »
Good women are not unicorns, and certainly not extinct. The professor’s rant notwithstanding, they exist. Discovering them, filtering for them, requires some original thought and an ability to reject current cultural definitions of “good”, while at the same time learning how to interact with them in a constructive manner (which is profoundly counter-cultural, and requires us to abandon greater-beta, femme-centric, drafthorse behavior and pretensions). For example, most of us as our former blue pill personalities might be inclined to believe that the Daily Mail woman is a victim of life’s circumstances, and believe her when she asserts that she is… Read more »
“The Bible”…”Jesus”…”St. Peter”…ect. Perhaps I will burn in hell…… If someone walked up to you on the street today and said… “Hi, my name is Brian and I am the son of “God” and if you “believe” me you will live in paradise for eternity.” “If you do not believe me, you are condemned to eternal damnation and suffering”, Oh, and by the way, me and my father are the same person.” Would you believe this person? Would you go around pretending that you know what he said is true? If not, then why would you “believe” or pretend the… Read more »
Marriage is no hedge against burning with lust.
Despite the internalized wisdom of the manosphere, some men understandably go their own way rather than feast on war pigs. Exposure to “media” sets higher-than-otherwise standards, but the hard truth is that quality women are only for the winners. A loser can try harder or he can give up. He may not want the trophy for 14th place. I have been married for 37 years. The manosphere has helped me understand the (variable) behavior of my wife and the other women around me. Keeping fit, upping game, amassing wealth are my mantra. Amused mastery during shit tests and application of… Read more »
Disdain Things you cannot have: Ignoring them is the best Revenge
By acknowledging a petty problem you give it existence and credibility. The more attention you pay an enemy, the stronger you make him; and a small mistake is often made worse and more visible when you try to fix it. It is sometimes best to leave things alone. If there is something you want but cannot have, show contempt for it. The less interest you reveal, the more superior you seem.