Appeals to Reason

thinker

“A woman in love can’t be reasonable, otherwise she wouldn’t be in love”
— Mae West

Last week The Chateau posted an article about a Beta male asking girls for reasons why they rejected him. In the typical deductive logic that most Betas are prone to use, he runs down a checklist of questions regarding what he thinks killed his chances with the girls he thought he could get with. He petitions four women with questions about themselves, which, being women, all are more than eager to answer.

Do you usually figure out if you wanna do more than make out with someone pretty instantly? Or, is it a slow burn?

Was there anything I did wrong that turned you off?

If you had advice for any guy looking to meet a girl, what would it be?

What makes someone attractive to you? Do you have any types?

Do you feel that you could never date someone shorter than you?

Am I an unattractive person to you?

These are some of the more common questions John Brown puts to the girls, and true to form the girls answer with the standard feminine boilerplate responses that absolve themselves of their part in his rejection, while trying not to hurt the feelings of a guy they knew would never see them naked. With the exception of maybe Vanessa, it’s pretty clear that John’s punching well above his blue-pill weight with these girls even though I’d only rate Victoria as the only HB8 in the bunch.

The questioning is what I’ve come to expect from most chumps mired in their blue pill bubble of applying logic to their sexlessness, but it’s not John’s overt grilling of these women that’s keeping him trapped in the Matrix – it’s his buildups and followups to those questions. John isn’t just interviewing them to ‘get to the bottom of things’ so he can solve his sex problem, he’s leading these women with ‘if then’ logic in an effort to convince them that, by their own words, they should be attracted to him.

John is make the most fundamental error every plugged in chump makes — he’s appealing to women’s reason.

Why Women Can’t ‘Just Get It

Appealing to women’s logic and relying on deductive reasoning to sort it out is the calling card of a Beta mind. There is nothing more anti-seductive for women than appealing to her reason. Arousal, attraction, sexual tension, subcommunication of desire, all happen indirectly and below the social surface for women. It’s not that women are incapable of reasoning (hypergamy is one logical bitch) or are crippled by their emotion-based hindbrains, it’s that if you’re asking her how to be more attractive you don’t Get It. It’s in the doing, not the asking.

If you read through the responses these women give John from a red pill perspective, you’ll see a pattern emerge. On an intrinsic, subliminal level,  women understand that their genuine desire, their genuine arousal and attraction, has to be an organic process. When a guy like John makes attempts to convince a woman that by her own reasoning (and led by his) she should be with him intimately, it offends and then cancels that process for her.

For women, one of the qualities of the Alpha her Hypergamy demands is a guy who Just Gets It. An Alpha would intrinsically know what women’s arousal and attraction cues are without being told and without even the inclination to ask about them. John’s issue of overtly confirming for himself ‘what women want’ is really an abdication of a Beta who doesn’t get it. And true to form, John’s, and Betas like him, next logical resort is to rationally convince a woman (preferably using her own words) to be attracted to him by attempting to re-impress her of his status.

Betas like this generally end up as the infamous emotional tampon, or the Surrogate Boyfriend to a woman who’s banging the most Alpha Man her looks can attract. However, this appeal-to-reason rationale filters into other aspects of men’s lives. The logical progression for John would be to better identify with the women (really the feminine imperative) he hopes to bang in the future – embody the feminine prerequisites, get the intimate approval. For married or monogamous men this appeal-to-reason may come as a mistaken belief that doing more chores around the house will lead to more (or any) sex for him.

The fallacy of Relational Equity is essentially founded on men’s dependency on appeals to women’s reason. Your doing homework with your children to better their lives (while very ennobling) doesn’t make your wife any hotter for you in bed, nor will it be any bargaining tool should she decide to leave you. Just as John is learning here, women don’t fall in love with who you are, they fall in love with what you are, and no appeal to their reason will convince them otherwise.

Red Pill Women

There’s a lot being made in the manosphere about the emergence of red pill or Game aware women. I’m on record for stating that every woman is a red pill woman, it’s just getting them to drop the feminine-primary, psychological pretense and cop to red pill truths that’s the trick. While I do share the generally wariness of self-identifying “Red Pill Women” and their potential for sanitizing or repurposing Game-awareness to a better feminine liking, I think most women are already aware of the truth of Game. There’s a very real danger in Men accepting “red pill women’s” conversion and acceptance of those truths for exactly the appeal-to-reason dynamic I’ve described here.

Red pill women’s acceptance of what the manosphere forces them to acknowledge about themselves is essentially a convincing appeal to their reason, and this will always make their “conversion” suspect. Regardless of their reported red pill self-awareness, red pill women still want a guy to Just Get It, their desire still can’t be negotiated, and as illogical as it may seem to a manosphere Man, hoping to appeal to the same reason that made her “red pill” still wont get you laid.

Red pill or not, women are still women, and basing any relationship you have with them on appealing to their reason, rather than solid Game awareness and truths, is building you house on a foundation of sand.


126 responses to “Appeals to Reason

  • donalgraeme

    Spot on Rollo. Attraction is entirely unconscious (or sub-conscious, I always get those mixed up). Reason has nothing to do with it, and as you point out, can even get in the way.

    Probably because it acts as a kind of reverse pre-selection indicator. A man who has been successful with women in the past (and therefore more likely than not to be attractive) would know not to appeal to reason. So women unconsciously rate any man appealing to reason as a man who is not attractive, because he couldn’t have been successful with them in the past.

  • arbias

    hello, i have been reading the posts on this site for a while. fantastic stuff. i am requesting for input on a specific topic – “how to behave around beta men”. i am situated in finance and am consistently around beta men. i get sick of it. sometimes i ignore them, sometimes i show them alpha-ness. it works and it does not – i get in trouble sometimes as they feel insecure around me. your expertise would be very helpful on this. good day.

  • Yep It's Me

    I’ve thought about this whether women even need to take the Red Pill or not – my belief is that it will have only minimal affect on them – because it works on the “logic” centers of the brain – therefore Men will have both a harder time ingesting and a bigger affect from the Red Pill than women.

    The other thing I’ve thought about is the fact that the Red Pill is more like a daily vitamin than a “take once and be done” vaccine. Environmentally speaking, you daily defense, otherwise it’s easy to slip back into the matrix.

    So, Rollo, does a woman even need to take the Red Pill?

  • Yep It's Me

    @arbias

    Don’t know how to help you, but I’ve had more than one annual review where it was stated “you can intimidate people” – where I’ve replied to my supervisor “and the problem is?”.

    You can’t really help beta men – it’s a path of self discovery for most. All you can is ignore them and lead by example.

  • wesa1835

    Women are perfectly capable of applying and ruthlessly using reason/logic in relationships. But it only enters into the ‘how do I best feather my bed today’ part of the equation. There is better example of practical female reasoning than beta bucks – alpha f**ks.

    However, the main topic here was attraction. And when it comes to female attraction, it is ALL about the tingle.

  • Craiger24

    As always, brilliantly put and I honestly think nobody breaks “red pill or game awareness” like you Rollo. I do look forward to your posts, and since reading you, my life and relationships have changed for the better. I try to “un plug” as many as I can, some won’t take the “red pill”, but once you do swallow it, I found that it is like having a “key” to everything and everyone around you. The process of this “awareness” or “awakening” is relatively instanaeous, once you reflect on everything in your past, what is currently around you, and what you take in on a daily basis. You look at things completely differently, and to be entirely honest, you become less hostile or angry in the world in which you live, because you see the next move coming, the ending to every story, and understand that there is “zero mystery” to a woman. Again, thank you. .

  • Peregrine John

    I’m not as convinced as you that all women are “red pill” – remembering that the phrase means they are awake and see the reality, not in the Matrix and seeing the illusion. People have an astonishing ability to lie to themselves, and that also goes for those who should know better. Considering that the illusion is, and serves, the feminine imperative, women may all know somewhere in their core that it’s all crap, but it’s alarming how many really won’t even look directly at the possibility.

    But isn’t this sort of thing (3rd wave feminism, leftism, etc.) more or less a form of dementia? And is there any parasite more evasive in its self-preservation than mental disorders? They are protected from observing reality, not by others’ continual deceit or lack of exposure to the truth, but by a layer of, frankly, brainwashing, a socially implemented and encouraged delusional construct. Once it’s in, it just needs a jot of encouragement (or threat) to build ever thicker. They know, yes; but they don’t know that they know. And like any good insanity, the closer you get to cracking through it, the more ferociously it defends its hold on the host.

  • catalinarea

    Yes, a woman needs to take the Red Pill (@ Yep It’s Me) for the sake of their own interests. Now that I am Red Pill I have more ways to manipulate men because I know more about what drives them. Simple as that.

    Though when I say manipulate I mean — what qualities should I display to get a man to love me or value me? Or what attributes should I improve or repress? Etc.

  • jen

    @Yep: I agree with catalinarea that women need to take the red pill, but not for the same reason. Take your average HB6+. Some of them (especially the girls in the highest brackets) do understand that every guy around them wants to get in their pants. But there’s a huge number of pretty girls who truly think that their horde of guy friends are just that: friends. I’ve seen (and experienced) the brutal realization that *none* of them stick around once you’re off the dating market, and therefore just wanted to get you into bed. Granted, this self-denial is usually only paper thin…thinking back, most women knew on some level that their guy “friends” were only there for one thing. It’s still a tough pill to swallow, and like men, it’s hard not to get embittered.

  • O.Outlier

    Fantastic post, Rollo. And I used to wonder why I always got friend zoned, thinking that there’s no “reason” for her not to like me. Instead of appealing to her subconscious desires and arousing her emotions, I always try to talk reasonably and demonstrate my intelligence, which I’m finally learning doesn’t matter, regardless of what women say. Our minds just work differently. It’s almost like I’m the one putting THEM in the friend zone, by talking to them like a boring intellectual would and not demonstrating beyond a doubt my attraction for them. I find this an interesting way of looking at it, since it keeps me in the “driver’s seat”, so to speak, instead of looking to blame women for not liking me. Keep those awesome posts coming.

  • FuriousFerret

    ” i am situated in finance and am consistently around beta men. i get sick of it.”

    Welcome to corporate America son. It sucks. The land of shims and PC terrified betas along with super charged feminists.

    Best advice is that your that the vast majority of your co-workers are ‘work input machines’. They aren’t real people. Just be cool with yourself and don’t give into their frame sticking with your own personal autonomy while being careful not offend the HR vultures by speaking your personal views on offensive topics.

    Just keep a greater beta veneer while making strategic alpha moves that move you up the power ladder where you don’t have to deal with as much bullshit.

    To your co-workers you are the shining example of the greater beta:

    ‘Gaming girls’ – What’s that? Women are to be cherished and afforded equal opportunity.

    Don’t use overt aggression. Make your power plays in the shadows. Get in good with your higher ups while displaying masculine competence. The essence is to be Brad Pitt at work, cool, calm and collect. Being Tony Soprano doesn’t fly unless you have a position of power. Don’t be a super nice fairy like a lot of people because then you lose respect.

    TL:DR: Corporate America is one big giant game. Being a cool competent motherfucker that is PC on cultural issues is the way to play it.

    Co-Workers != People, Co-Workers = ‘Work Input Machines’

  • deti

    “Red pill women’s acceptance of what the manosphere forces them to acknowledge about themselves is essentially a convincing appeal to their reason, and this will always make their “conversion” suspect. Regardless of their reported red pill self-awareness, red pill women still want a guy to Just Get It, their desire still can’t be negotiated, and as illogical as it may seem to a manosphere Man, hoping to appeal to the same reason that made her “red pill” still wont get you laid.”

    Spot on; “women’s acceptance of what the manosphere forces them to acknowledge about themselves”.

    Women KNOW Game. They know about hypergamy and attraction deep down. But nearly all women cannot accept it or don’t want to accept it. I think acknowledging these things as true literally horrifies women because it makes them look like shallow, superficial, manipulative, ruthlessly self interested harridans.

  • I

    There are so many “red pill women” blogs out there. I don’t read any of them and I wouldn’t either because ever since I learned the truth about women, I have lost all faith in them. I can never trust a women on anything . Maybe some women are good at some things, but still I’d rather take a guys advise, and this includes the females in my family. I have always thought that mothers and sisters can play an important role in the red pill upbringing. Maybe you could shed a light on it

  • FuriousFerret

    ” I think acknowledging these things as true literally horrifies women because it makes them look like shallow, superficial, manipulative, ruthlessly self interested harridans.”

    When women get together in their little hen circles the conversation is way way rauncher than men. When they are young they talk about their lust for bad boys, hot men, studs and when they are old they complain about their beta nice guy husbands.

    One thing I would like to point out is that at their core I would say every guy is red pill too but they accept a delusion and lie as well. Most guys know they suck and they know they don’t measure up to be hot so they believe the lie that society told them so society would function. That worked when women were shamed into behaving but when they were set loose on the world without restrictions it created pure havoc.

    What’s interesting is that it’s more in your face than ever about women’s extreme hypergamy and you see this massive dichotomy at least with the young. You either go into full alpha asshole mode to put your hat in the ring and win which terrifies most men due to social conditioning and their pussification or behave like an ostrich and stick that head in the sand and tell yourself this isn’t happening, it’s cool, I’ve been told that women are sugar, spice and everything nice, my day will come. But in their hearts, all guys know the score. It’s ingrained in their DNA. Man is the dominant sex and millions and millions screams at them that this is so.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    Actually I already have:

    http://therationalmale.com/2011/08/29/female-dating-advice/

    Bear in mind that Red Pill Women’s advice is still women’s advice.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    From that post:

    For the answer, all you have to do is look at the bios of single women on any online dating service. When asked to describe the characteristics they find desirable in a man, the single most common responses are confidence, decisiveness, independence. Traits that would require a man to be a Man and have the foresight and perseverance not to take things at face value. The guy with the capacity to call a woman’s bluff with a confidence that implies she is to be worthy of him rather than the other way around is the Man to be competed for. Essentially the ‘chick speak’, ‘chick advice’ phenomenon is a shit test writ large on a social scale. And even your own mother and sisters are in on it, expecting you to ‘get it’; to get the message and see the challenge for what it really is, without overtly telling you.

    This should be especially true for “Red Pill Women” since they claim to be self-aware of, and acknowledge, red pill truths.

  • onderhassan

    Having read the manosphere blogs for some time now and following yours, heartiste’s and Krauser’s especially. It’s dawned on me that the female species is volatile, unpredictable, shameless and selfish in nature.

    True, the same could be said about us men in our species, but I honestly think we’re not even as half as bad as these broken women. We have so much to prove as males that it’s become seemingly impossible to fulfill the role as a man in today’s modern society.

    In addition to knowing and understanding their behavior as well as having infield experience from actively gaming. I’m becoming less and less optimistic about my interactions with them beyond the simple act of having sex.

    Even my sister isn’t any different. All the same manipulative and conniving behavior that you’re to naturally expect from the species.

    I honestly thought coming to the manosphere would help me come to terms with my issues, which I knew I had from long ago but couldn’t quite put my finger on. I knew there was something not quite right and looked for an answer, only to realize that the truth doesn’t set you free… It simply creates more problems.

  • xna232stang

    The curious thing about women jumping on board the red pill train is that it just isn’t needed. Men don’t need women to swallow the red pill to have a good relationship, fling, etc. Unless you count (women) keeping yourself pretty as part of the red pill.

    Once a man learns how to be attractive to women in general, his interactions with women will improve. The end. A woman will be attracted to game whether or not she knows about the red pill. Her eyes will alight and her body language will open up even if she doesn’t know that telling men to “just be themselves” is bad advice.

    Having red pill women in our community is like having a second butthole. It’s just not useful, and as you pointed out, Rollo, a potential liability.

  • Aristippus

    Catalina,

    It’s pretty simple. Act the way you would act when you first start dating a man and then never stop.

  • Jacob Ian Stalk

    In the hands of women, this knowledge will Enshrine the Female Imperative. It will become worship of the Mother Goddess; a dance lesson to the siren song of her evil handmaidens.

    Game is like a gold ring through a pig’s snout – it lures unwary men onto the altar of the sacred feminine, feverishly to mount her handmaidens and cast the pearls of their manhood before her swine. It’s a roadmap to her altar with Google-Maps-direction-finder efficiency. No need to wonder how to get there, or look for street signs. It’s the short cut, spelled out for us on the web in poetic damnation. Go straight to the Devil. Do not pass God and do not collect salvation.

    If the Feminine Imperative is enshrined, a fight to the death for the right to breed is the only possible eventuality. In this generation Game may give the illusion of success, but local skirmishes with lesser betas/gammas/deltas/omegas will be distilled by market forces into a market of winner take all in subsequent generations. It’s not without reason that entertainers, sports heroes and criminals will soon be counted as billionaires. In a society in which Game is normalised behaviour, eventually all but one man in ten, a hundred, a thousand, a million will pass his genes onto the next generation. This idea is already being normalised amongst the younger generations – what do you suppose The Hunger Games was all about?

    When men unbind from the autonomous moral identity and worth given to each and every one of them by God and abandon the civilising brotherhood that exists entirely beyond the reach of the Female Imperative, Man is reduced to his animal nature. The Alpha will be kept in a cage, released to kill the lesser mortal, then used for the gratification of women (tingles) and breeding stock. Feminism will have won…the Mother Goddess will have usurped the eternal throne.

    A better roadmap to the jungle doesn’t exist than in this enshrinement of the Feminine Imperative. Heartiste knows it. Elam knows it. Most readers suspect it…and the Devil is rubbing his hands with glee. If our last rallying point is a pact with the Devil then We. Are. Done.

  • Jeremy

    Red pill women’s acceptance of what the manosphere forces them to acknowledge about themselves is essentially a convincing appeal to their reason, and this will always make their “conversion” suspect. Regardless of their reported red pill self-awareness, red pill women still want a guy to Just Get It, their desire still can’t be negotiated, and as illogical as it may seem to a manosphere Man, hoping to appeal to the same reason that made her “red pill” still wont get you laid.

    Red pill or not, women are still women, and basing any relationship you have with them on appealing to their reason, rather than solid Game awareness and truths, is building you house on a foundation of sand.

    Excellent post, fairly topical as well.

    What deserves side-mention is that male attraction is just as organic, but is based on open display that anyone with eyes and ears can see and learn how to manipulate. Male attraction is also just as non-negotiable. Men are still men, regardless of what pie-in-the-sky nonsense they give you about being attracted to your brain.

    This post runs along the analog of women trying to tell men that they should be attracted to fat, older women. You cannot reason the opposite sex into desiring what you want them to desire, no matter how hard you try. Attempts to shoe-horn attraction into places it does not fit only leads to dissatisfaction. It’s kind of like being a car salesmen and being told to sell station wagons to everyone right when minivans were invented, it just doesn’t work because you’re not giving the customer what they want.

  • Jeremy

    @catalinarea
    …for the sake of their own interests. Now that I am Red Pill I have more ways to manipulate men because I know more about what drives them. Simple as that.

    That doesn’t follow. Women have already been perfecting the manipulation of male attraction triggers for centuries. It is why make-up, push-up-bras, plastic surgery, corsets, low necklines, bare midriff, hip-huggers, low-rider-jeans, shiny stockings, high-heels, hair care tools & products, skin care products, bikinis, spandex in general, etc… exist. Women learn very early on how to manipulate a man’s attraction, probably so early that the learned behaviors are not even internally acknowledged. It’s like spending the time thinking about how you walk and acknowledging a part of your gait as coming from an incident where someone was more attracted to you for how you walked (which is, incidentally, a real example). A woman learning how men use Game is like a man learning how women use makeup, it’s almost useless to you.

    Now, the self-awareness of your own female attraction triggers (which is part of being red-pill aware), that’s definitely valuable, but not because it helps you manipulate men. It’s valuable for you because it gives you the possibility of explicit, gramatically-expressable examples of your own organic attraction process. That’s something that most women do not get because they do not have the, erm, laboratory (so-to-speak) that men get when they find that first batch of porn in their early attraction years. There’s no analog for women of attraction-trigger-experimentation period that men get. Perhaps with the exception that you read lots and lots and lots of romance novels. Even then it can’t compare to the sheer volume of pictures a man can look at by the time he hits 15 years old. If you’re a fast reader and you finish a romance novel a day, you’re still behind in learning what you find attractive as a woman. You’re behind because in that time your average man your age just looked at maybe >20,000 pictures and got 100x as good an idea what attracts him. Part of this problem might be due to the dearth of masculine examples in the media, but that’s another topic.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    This is what happens when so called “Red Pill Women” are allowed to represent the manosphere:

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/oldest-war_742473.html

  • deti

    Rollo:

    So a tradcon at a neocon newsweekly savages Dr. Helen’s latest book. We all expected that.

    But, we all know what they would have done to Roissy or Roosh.

  • theshadowedknight

    Rollo, what is the problem with Smith and Men on Strike? I really do not see it doing anything meaningful, whether good or bad. The book gets dismissed as libretardian ranting, and is then ignored after the obligatory debunking by the media. Can you explain further?

    Honest question here, as I want to know if I am missing something.

    The Shadowed Knight

  • Jeremy

    This is what happens when so called “Red Pill Women” are allowed to represent the manosphere:

    I haven’t read Helen’s book. Many things about that review are believable to me:
    1) It is believable to me that Andrew Fergusen is a narrow minded natural alpha and at a stage in life where he’s had only healthy experiences with women. This would make him nearly incapable of opening his eyes to the plight of the average man.
    2) It is entirely believable to me that Helen’s book is full of poorly sourced claims and significant misrepresentations of manosphere truths.

  • Rio

    Onderhassen, “Having read the manosphere blogs for some time now and following yours, heartiste’s and Krauser’s especially. It’s dawned on me that the female species is volatile, unpredictable, shameless and selfish in nature.”

    –Reading Krauser and Heartiste, and especially reading their followers’ comments, will undoubtedly lead you to the conclusion that women are volatile, unpredictable, and shameless.
    If we were to make a conclusion about the male species after reading Krauser and Heartiste, it would be that men are a shameless, polygamous, drunken, whore-mongering species. But that’s a pretty broad conclusion based on a couple of sophomoric blogs, wouldn’t you say?

    If you want to learn about red-pill, find sites like this one where, for the most part, the men and women readers who post take responsiblity for their actions. Krauser and ROK are often filled with posts teaching men how to add notches to their bedposts, and then slam women for being whores.

    Rollo mostly describes the gender differences in a way that men can appreciate and women can learn from introspection. I know that I enjoy reading and learning…

  • Rollo Tomassi

    Aww,..stop it you’re making me all misty.

  • Case

    Rollo,
    Couple things about this post. Re: your assertion that all women are “red pill”. Well, I’d say “yes” and “no”.
    Yes in that as another commenter noted, attraction is not chosen. Men don’t chose what men think is hot. Gay people do not choose to be attracted to the same gender. Straight people do not choose to be attracted to the opposite gender. Women do not choose to be attracted to men of higher relative status, or to power, etc … and we can safely intuit that while women probably do have a level of confusion on the point that is the rare case with nearly no analog in men – and by that I refer to the distinction you make between attraction and arousal – while this distinction is probably a source of cognitive dissonance, … one guesses that most women have a clue on some conscious level what it is that turns them on, “red pill” or “blue”. So that far … yes.
    But “no” in that for one … already said it: a cognitive dissonance exists, mitigated as you have pointed out by among other things, menses, and while I personally think nearly all female behaviors that so baffle betas have analogs in men, … this may be an exception.
    Past that … when I read you saying this, several counter-examples come to mind. A woman saying, as if quoting the first amendment, “well, but men have ALL the advantages” … or two others making nearly the exact same statement, “well, usually its the divorced mother who is more responsible”. Hard, in my mind, to get comments like these … which really seem to reflect widely held attitudes … hard to make them comport with “red pill”. What did Kate used to say, “purple pill”?

    Ok … other thing. “alpha”, “beta” and “omega”, as I see it, are basically just “executive summaries” of what is really a more continuous and dynamic system. The terms suggest a theory that is static and categorical, but I think the more nuanced theory is continuous and dynamic. This is exposed, for example, in your article … “Final Exam” I think it was called, where you graphed the relative, changing SMV of men and women over age.

    Basically … men in their 20s are prone to act like “betas”, because they don’t have high SMV status to offer the women their own age, so it’s like they are saying, “hey … I don’t have the sex market commodity value you want, but I have all these other things like commitment and dedication and a desire to provide and be a good father”.

    Women in 2013 say: “ho hum”.

    But this only appears to be “beta”. It’s really just low relative SMV.

    Get into the 30s and 40s and the dialog reverses, because the SMV reversed, not because “beta” lost his beta and got alpha. Women at this point start offering their age-peers, guess what … commitment, dedication, the desire to create a stable home life and be a good mother. Not suddenly a bunch of alphas … just SMV reversal.

    In my mind a “red pill” woman would be a woman who gets and accepts this and who makes her decisions accordingly … either accepting temporary rock start SMV status and foregoing diminution, or parlaying her rock star status for the best alpha commitment deal she can get, if commitment is what she wants … understanding she isn’t going to care much for what is on offer for commitment if she waits too long.

    A red pill man … basically is such just because he knows the same things – not necessarily as much based on what he does about them. He can “game” on hypergamy and PUA it up, … or he can do other things, … but whatever he does, he does it with a real knowledge of his SMV, bartering gold for gold and silver for silver, so that either way, he isn’t a chump.

  • Ondrej


    This is extremely important. I read only daygame.com and rationalmale.com, because other blogs caused me to develop that anger towards women.

  • Carlos Rivera

    @ Jacob Ian Stalk

    It is like you are a phantom. They can see you, but they can’t *see* you. We are too divided. The species appears to have been a failed project. Another district to Hell has been added. Pity. Like hamsters playing a Game, running on its wheel. Yet this wheel moves and it pushes a rock up a mountain. Only to have it roll down again.

    In the next cycle, however, there will be no existence…They will have to create themselves ex nihilo without cosmological support.

  • biff

    Two things, first this is an A+ post. Rollo, you have some of the most perceptive pieces in the manosphere that I’ve yet come across (in addition to a few misses), but the relative infrequency of your posts may prevent you from getting the recognition you deserve. Wish I could have read this years ago when I was with this runway model chick. During one of our final convos, she’s like crying and tells me she’s bi-polar. I just kind of smirked and was like you didn’t have to say it. Initially, I chalked up all our communication issues to her psychoses. Really, it was mostly just me trying to reason with her, since I believed she had some kind of super high IQ and should be able to grasp simple argument. Since then, I’ve learned how useless it is to try to reason with any girl. You just get reframes and unrelated counterattacks with no progress on the original issue.

    Second point, in response to this ““how to behave around beta men”. i am situated in finance and am consistently around beta men. i get sick of it.” comment– I now firmly believe that the ideal masculine personality requires intentional “bifurcation”. Let’s call it the “bros before hos” mentality. You can’t be a jerk around guys and expect good results. You need to treat men “better” than women in some sense. You can be real with guys, be caring, understanding, and straight and logical, even critical when appropriate. You want to become a leader of men, and a total a$$hole is not someone most men want to follow. There’s no need to game men. Save that for the women. If you are the total a$$hole/real dark triad you may succeed with women, but you are likely to fail at life. If you can be beta as necessary at work (make your superiors love you and want to promote you), but can’t get out of this mode with women, your love life will suck (Warren Buffet seems like this type to me). Intentional bifurcation with a higher beta bias (more alpha for women of course) is the way to go. Ultimately, more success at work will help for success with women. Higher position in the office/company + higher income that comes with it is another way to signal higher status, provided you have at least some game. Rollo, wish you’d consider doing a post on this second issue.

  • dana

    i am a veteran member of the man-o-sphere and so-called red pill women and, for the record, the advice i dispense to other women is NOT “advice from women”, it is advice directly from the mouths of the men of the man-o-sphere without being being filtered through “the interests of women” except in that i find the “interest of women” to be attaining a satisfying relationship with a man who is dominant and attractive enough to have options by becoming the kind of woman MEN claim MEN want, not the kind of woman women claim men want or think men want because they project their own attraction triggers onto men

  • Peregrine John

    Just a note on terminology: Male and female are, by definition, the same species. The literary reference so often misrepresented is “The female of the species…” There is no female species. Leave that excessively divisive crap to the ignoranuses.

  • Case

    dana, re: “…becoming the kind of woman MEN claim MEN want, not the kind of woman women claim men want or think men want because they project their own attraction triggers onto men”. I like that. Simple, crisp, locked-and-shut. I have a friend, she is really, really struggling with this. I typically avoid direct dialog with her which I figure would be fruitless and instead point her to certain things and ask her to wipe the slate clean and just observe for herself what is going on so she learns on her own, but the process is hard. I can see those simple words carving open a window for her that will clear away a lifetime’s worth of being fed B.S. on top of heaping B.S. I’m going to use it, thanks.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    Rollo, you have some of the most perceptive pieces in the manosphere that I’ve yet come across (in addition to a few misses), but the relative infrequency of your posts may prevent you from getting the recognition you deserve

    Oh, I dunno about that,…

    http://alphagameplan.blogspot.com/2013/08/top-game-blogs-q213.html

    Actually my commitment to the upcoming book and my job promotion/relocation this year is the reason for the less frequent posts.

    That’ll change around the middle of this month though.

    /crypticness

  • Marky Mark

    Works the same for guys too… like an unnattractive woman saying that she is honest and will be a good mother… that’s nice but it doesn’t turn me on sugartits.

  • Jeremy

    Uhm, what? Why is it necessary to post frequently? The best blogs on the internet post 1-2 times a month. The posts from those blogs are well-crafted, sourced and always worth reading.

    There’s a very smooth scale between quality content and infrequent posts, and 12 updates daily and lots of repetitive outsourcing of thought. The faster you try to update, the closer you become to an AP wire.

    Be smart. Spend time thinking about what you’re saying. This is why Maddox is still the best page in the universe because he almost never updates. If that man tried to update daily it would be brain vomit. Frighteningly, Maddox’s page is blocked for me at work, it is classified as “Hate Speech”.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    @Jeremy, this is exactly what I do now. I’ve never posted for the sake of posting, I post when I have some new insight to share.

    Dalrock’s post count has decreased over the past 6 months, yet his page views have increased.

  • Tam the Bam

    “That’ll change around the middle of this month though.

    /crypticness”

    OMG I knew it you’re getting the sack and/or being rusticated …

    oh wait a normal person would keep that pretty quiet.
    Which leaves a state-change on the literary scene as the front-runner, my excessively beta logic intimates.

    Paypal OK, boss?

  • Craiger24

    Regarding your posting more frequently, it’s just that people, such as myself, enjoy your insight…The best way to explain everyone’s “yearning for more” meme is that your postings are much like a good book or movie, it will always leave you wanting more…just like a “red pill” man will do with a woman he is dating. Scarcity makes you higher in demand, as you well know.

    Again, I appreciate your insight, your style of writing, and I look forward to new posts as they become available. Your work, along with others, have taught me invaluable insight and thus inspired me in so many ways in my life. I do credit “Solve My Girl Problems” website for my introduction to you and one of your posts he put on his site (which is now vacated) for turning me onto your writings/blog. Shark was much more crass, but looked at “GAME” more as a lifestyle, and not just on one focus (a woman). I will never forget the day I hit rock bottom with a relationship I held dear, as I was too that typical “blue piller” who “didn’t get women”.

    Thank you

  • Rollo Tomassi

    @Tam, lets just say I’ve always had the sack, just not the experience to know how arduous a process of compiling, editing, re-editing, publishing, etc. a book would be.

    Plans are to have it done by my 2 year mark this month.

  • Yep It's Me

    I’ve admitted here and elsewhere, that I fucked up my marriage by becoming/devolving into the a sickly lump of beta-non-manliness. Potentially I was there before I got married (in some respects), but it was a series of tiny sidesteps that took me to the dissolution of my marriage. So, I say this with complete humility and the voice of experience…

    Do not give in, do not say yes, do not stray from your “mission” in life.

    What does this have to do with attraction? Well, all those tiny side steps (over my 17 year marriage) were all in the name of getting along, creating a happy home and marriage, to create a partnership. What it actually created was a woman that hated her life and a man that felt defeated. Not a great combination for a happy marriage.

    Creating attraction is the easy part – sustaining attraction for the long haul is very difficult. That’s one of the big lies and one of the things people forget to tell you when you enter into the marriage contract.

  • Yep It's Me

    PS (to my earlier comment)…

    I don’t buy the “Red Pill Women” thing. Awareness is only a step. Knowledge, then planning, then action – all those are required. I just don’t believe that most women are wired for the hard work required. Just my opinion.

  • Antex

    As usual some men assume they are straight and rational complete being and women predictable animals. Also the definition of beta can’t be that univocal, though I might intuitively define a beta someone who is excessevely needy with women and just points to that thing. Alpha could be a cinical men who just know how to obtain that “thing” or one who doesn’t just have o cold unique objective + “how to get there flowchart” but has this “non-chalance” and communicates this to women, where the so called nerd might communicate frustration and awkwardeness. But things are not always so schematic.

  • Rol

    Women have no use for the red pill, they already know exactly what behaviors men like and will tailor it to suit any given situation.

    If a chick just wants some dick (alpha), she’s going to be more sexually flirtatious, shit-test earlier, maybe throw in a little jealousy game to peak your interest (I guess that falls under shit-test as well).

    If she wants more long-term commitment (beta) she’ll be friendly and more accommodating, playing the sweet princess role. May hold out on sex longer to appear chaste.

    Of course, these approaches aren’t necessarily mutually exclusive, there’s always overlap, but they learn this shit early, earlier than we take an interest in them.

    I believe it could even be “inherent” to their biological makeup.

    The “bad” behavior that’s more visible to us today has always been there, it’s simply on display because of a lack of consequences.

  • walawala

    This is a great post….more evidence that the “Just be yourself” or JBY is the kind of approach to reason and logic that keeps many guys from achieving the self-awareness necessary to adopt both inner and outer game.

  • TempestTcup

    The Red Pill woman sites where I hang mainly consist of women married or LTR to men that have taken the red pill.

    We discuss girly stuff like haircare & we share recipes at GirlsBeingGirls.

    RedPillWoman reddit, is different and people do ask advice. Our overwhelming advice is to look good, don’t be a bitch, be very enthusiastic (in bed, lol), and let him run the show.

  • catalinarea

    @ Aristippus

    clever advice, thanks!

    @ Jeremy

    No, but see…..Before the red pill I hated men and thought they were subhuman and evil and that the way I act doesn’t matter etc……

    After red pill I realized that certain feminine qualities DO matter and that men are human, too. And thus I can now treat them better and maybe have a better chance of keeping them.

    Hint: Makeup doesn’t help that much.

  • catalinarea

    Also, I am speaking as a 23yr old. You guys are forgetting that the media and peers are making it seem as if chasteness is NOT that important (and thank god I once had a middle eastern bf that showed me the facts, otherwise I wouldn’t till be a virgin) and that you can be sassy, etc and that men are ebil.

  • Dale

    @catalinearea is correct; men who take the red pill don’t change what they want in a woman, they just learn how women work, so they can do what they need to do. The same for women taking the red pill, they con’t change what they want, only learn better how to get it (not so much how to be more attractive, but having more understanding of what works.)

    @O. Outlier: I learned that many of the women I thought had friend zoned me, though I had friend zoned them. (Women get put in the friend zone for the same reason men do, the other person has better lays available.)

  • Vektor

    The red pill is the truth, nothing more. What you do with that awareness is up to you.

    A red pill woman. To me, that is exactly about reason. An awareness of instinct and an awareness of reality.

    There are many ‘beta’ husbands who work hard for their families. They would sacrifice everything for their families.

    Red pill women recognize this. Red pill women are not led by instinct. They have an understanding of honor and duty. They understand that when you have a child, you can not just make decisions just for yourself anymore.

    Women in the past didn’t always have this choice. To have the choice, but still choose put family first….that is a red pill woman. IMO..

  • glenbert

    Bullshit. If women were “naturally red pill,” none of them would be fat.

  • Rol

    Catalinaarea,

    “No, but see…..Before the red pill I hated men and thought they were subhuman and evil and that the way I act doesn’t matter etc……”

    This sounds a little less than genuine.

    Women usually develop a chip on their shoulder when they experience a “pump-n-dump” and/or a rejection by guys they’re attracted to (usually create a lot of plausible deniability to mitigate this), they don’t simply come out of the gates hating men. Granted, if you were thoroughly brainwashed by a parent, I imagine that could have a significant effect, but that’s more of an extreme situation.

    Most staunch feminists (women) who “hate” men are unattractive and are simply making their necessity a virtue. However, in general, you get the best behavior from women who are attracted to you and should that attraction wane, the uglier side will rear its head.

    “After red pill I realized that certain feminine qualities DO matter and that men are human, too. And thus I can now treat them better and maybe have a better chance of keeping them.
    Hint: Makeup doesn’t help that much.”

    Part of this seems plausible because women do tend to overvalue themselves, but since we don’t have all the facts it’s hard to determine what’s really happening here, like how attractive you are, etc.

    Make no mistake, an attractive woman gets a pass on pretty much any shitty behavior because she excites men at the mere sight of her. She’ll likely have more trouble keeping high value men who won’t put up with it because they have options, but they get so much validation it isn’t given a second thought until they start losing their looks.

  • Anonymous Reader

    Tangental but related, Giggles rolled out her new and improved Slutting Up Smart. Soon to come – new commenting system…

  • catalinarea

    @ Rol

    Well, I guess another point that will clear things up is that I had a poor father figure–i.e. was essentially rejected by my father because he never ever spent time or attention on me. So I assumed they were the scum of the earth that only care about sex and exploit at any given chance and have no emotions etc.

    Also, it is not so much about overvaluing oneself in my case (I know my looks are a mere 6 or something) — but about coming to learn that actually looks aren’t EVERYTHING and that in order to KEEP a guy you need to be sweet etc. So that even if I find a guy that likes my looks based on his unique criteria, I need to stay nice etc ESPECIALLY since I’m not a 10.

    Also the red pill laid out harsh truth about the fact that love is CONDITIONAL and so by reading all these depressing things I came to accept it earlier than some other people, maybe. And am now focused on improving myself as opposed to hoping to one magical day be loved for who I am. Which is bull. It’s about the value you give and pretend to have.

  • Artisanal Toad

    Can you shoot me an email?

  • HanSolo

    For anyone interested in plummeting marriage rates, check out the post I just made in my username that builds off of Dalrock’s post about rising never-married rates. I use it to calculate the 5-year marriage rates by age cohort and year and show that it has plummeted.

    Then I project what the never-married levels will be by 2017 under reasonable assumptions about what will happen to marriage rates in the next few years.

    In the early 2000′s, 30-34 y/o never-married white women (NMWW) had a ~34% chance of marrying within the next 5 years. This level was cut in half by 2007, to ~17%.

    Only 1 in 6 30-34 y/o white women had never married in 2000 but this level will likely double to 1 in 3 by 2017, a stunning increase. The 35-39 y/o NMWW cohort will nearly double from 11% in 2000 to ~20% by 2017. Younger cohorts are also marrying less frequently and risk missing out on their most attractive years to find a husband.

  • Rol

    Catalinarea,

    “Well, I guess another point that will clear things up is that I had a poor father figure–i.e. was essentially rejected by my father because he never ever spent time or attention on me. So I assumed they were the scum of the earth that only care about sex and exploit at any given chance and have no emotions etc.”

    The men you sort of caricatured here are considered “bad-boys” (alpha). They are by far, not the norm. These are the guys that tend to get women in their prime years, which is the cause of much confusion among blue pill men. Completely anecdotal, but I’d say for every alpha you meet, you’ll have met 20 betas.

    “Also, it is not so much about overvaluing oneself in my case (I know my looks are a mere 6 or something) — but about coming to learn that actually looks aren’t EVERYTHING and that in order to KEEP a guy you need to be sweet etc. So that even if I find a guy that likes my looks based on his unique criteria, I need to stay nice etc ESPECIALLY since I’m not a 10.”

    That’s just it though, your “behavior” was a demonstration of overvaluation. You began to realize that you had trouble keeping men because you had a bad attitude and your looks (6) weren’t enough to make up for it. I’m not knocking your efforts here, this is a great attitude to have moving forward. The right guy will keep your attitude in check.

    Is this a red pill realization for you? I guess it could be considered somewhat, but I honestly don’t think being “aware” of this does anything significant for women. You aren’t the ones fighting an uphill battle against society and government. Women are, at least in westernized countries, the most privileged group.

    It isn’t enough for men to simply be “aware”, it requires a concerted effort to keep from slipping back into a previous mindset in a culture that pretty much saturates you with the feminine imperative.

    I applaud your epiphany, lord knows more women could stand to act better. I just don’t think red pill awareness means the same thing for both sexes, I believe it’s more of a masculine endeavor. There’s no safety net for men.

  • catalinarea

    @ Rol

    Your comment makes a lot of sense, maybe my perception of guys was distorted because the guys often talked about in public are alphas, but I don’t have time to analyze this right now.
    In terms of looks, I guess what I was alluding to is that I learned that there IS hope for me because (1) looks are somewhat controllable (stay young and in shape and groom in a feminine way) and that (2) personality CAN add to your chances. When I was dumped by a guy I loved not for my looks but for my personality is when it hit me. I.e. it didn’t matter that I wasn’t a 10 — but how I treated him did. Red pill just points out what the optimal personality should be to increase chances of success.

    Here’s another important point I wanna make: The red pill WARNS women. Therefore we need it. I am sooo sooo SOOOOOOOO sick of the manosphere guys saying “poor men we are so screwed we have such an uphill battle wa wa wa”. BULLSHIT. If anybody is disadvantaged it’s women. A guy never expires and can always restart his life. A woman gets only one window of opportunity and then she is obsolete.

    Because I am a girl, I have to plan my 20s carefully. Because I am a girl, I have to sacrifice either career/satisfying pursuits or a family. Because I am a girl, there will come a day when I am invisible. Because I am a girl, I have to worry about my health/youth more. Because I am a girl, I have to dread the future. Because I am a girl, I have to consider settling in life.

    So you know what? Suck it, up. Because being a girl is fucking hard in the long run. After divorce, a woman is screwed whereas a man can still find a mate, be socially accepted, etc. A woman has to make lifetime decisions in her 20s and then be treated like garbage. So don’t even.

    Thing is, I’m not even a feminist. Life would’ve been a lot simpler if I was in 1950 right now. But noooo now I have to worry about expectations that I have to pull a career out of my V as well as a baby AND about the potential of my husband leaving me once I’m no longer young.

    So I repeat; stop complaining. Men have the choice to be free or to take on responsibility. Women only get to choose from either responsibility or invisibility. All I want is freedom, but I cannot have it and still hope for a bright future. Life’s not fair. But it’s in men’s favour.

    Oh, but don’t start responding to this comment by calling me a feminist. Because I’m very anti-feminist as my friends can attest to. I just think you guys don’t recognize that he landscape is hard on women, as well.

  • furiousferrett

    @catalinarea

    Life is only really good for the truly elite. Most women aren’t going to have the life of their dreams because they can lie on their back.

    However, this is true. The average woman definitely has an easier time than an average man. That is a straight up fact. That’s the rub. As long as you are semi attractive when you are young and don’t royally fuck it up, then you’re should be ok because you’re the protected sex. Whereas the average male is simply used and tolerated.

    The true winner is the top 15 – 20 percent of men. They call the shots because they are more scarce and they have to keep running to stay in the same place with grit and work.

    The things you bitch about really are problems of pampered upper crust women:

    “Because I am a girl, I have to plan my 20s carefully.”

    Guys have to do this as well. You know how many obese, no game, no wealth losers dig themselves out of their hole. Not many.

    “I have to sacrifice either career/satisfying pursuits”

    If you weren’t a decent looking woman that derives her social life from your career, you won’t feel the same way. Unless you are some type of artist, your job probably isn’t that cool. It’s just that you get all sorts of attention/drama/gossip/lunch outings out of your career that it tricks you into thinking it’s worth a damn. Just know that’s it your value as being a young woman that is doing most of the heavy lifting.

    “Because I am a girl, there will come a day when I am invisible.”

    Most men go their whole lives being invisible or simply being a slave. Again problem of the affluent.

    “Because I am a girl, I have to worry about my health/youth more.”

    Bullshit. Guys today have to be fit to even be in the game. You can’t be obese and be a real player.

    “Because I am a girl, I have to consider settling in life.”

    Most guys settle hard to the few women that will have them. You think they want an overweight new bride that is rapidly approaching the wall.

    Just follow the chart:

    Alpha males >>>>>>>>> Legit hot chicks > Average Women > Beta Males > Omega People

    The solution is so simple though even if it requires some pain:

    Lock down the best guy you can when you’re in your early twenties. It’s like what our society used to before we become full blown retards about sexuality.

  • HanSolo

    @Furious Ferrett

    I agree that women are of greater “value” than beta males.

    And in terms of sexual and marriage value I agree with your hierarchy.

    In terms of overall effect on society I would make one change at the top. I would say it’s the true apex alphas like rock stars, athletes, billionaires, etc. that are really at the top, (with the few apex alpha females like Oprah and their influence on society).

    In the femcentric society we live in I would say that in many ways that “alpha females” have more impact on society than alpha males because the beta females are so herdlike that they want to stay part of the female herd even when they have to sacrifice some of what they want to do so.

    And beta males (and even alpha males to some extent) react to the conditions that women demand for sex. 100 years ago alphas were less likely to go around having sex with lots of women because women wouldn’t go for it and would shun the men. Now many women want to sex up such men and so the promiscuous alpha males have changed to focus more on promiscuous sex, reacting to the female demand.

    Feel free to read more of my thoughts on the hierarchy of society in my username link.

  • furiousferrett

    @Han

    “In terms of overall effect on society I would make one change at the top.”

    Society. Who cares?

  • Bobb Dobbs

    70% of divorces are initiated by women. Why cry about the consequences?

  • catalinarea

    @furiousferrett

    I don’t know, I still have trouble agreeing that it’s harder for beta men. My point was that a beta male can always improve no matter how old–can always get muscle can always make more money can always learn game etc.

    Whereas once a woman hits 27 it’s downhill no matter what she does and she is left to lament on the past and be ignored in the future.

    Now….about careers…..

    I do NOT mean something silly like HR management when I say career….all my life I wished to do something with impact and have a real career like a lawyer or psychologist or accountant biologist etc. I no longer want any of those but I still want to do something big. Something technical and useful, if possible. I wish I could be a data scientist actually, but am currently studying for an analyst ='( but it;s ok, I can always take extra mathematical courses and catch up on in depth statistics, at least my foot would be in the door in regards to data. I also want to start a business within a decade. And own real estate etc. And travel and live in different places. And just have adventure. This is my ideal life. What I wanted always. But marriage would also be nice. LATER. Problem is…BECAUSE I AM A GIRL I HAVE TO SETTLE FOR MARRIAGE NOW AN NOT EXPERIENCE FREEDOM LIKE GUYS DO AND NOT OVEREXERT MYSELF AND DAMAGE MY YOUTH. =( So I am paralysed in my decision-making and not sure how to plan my life. It’s horrible. I wish I was a guy sometimes. Yet at the same time I like being a girl. sigh.

  • catalinarea

    @ Rol

    Forgot to clear something up. You again assumed I overvalued myself and therefore acted like a bitch etc and then learned my value cannot support my crap personality.

    That’s not true. If anything, I was UNDERvaluing myself. I always thought I was ugly (below average). So when he thought I was pretty etc it was hard for me to believe him so my insecurities were raging and I was an even bigger bitch.

    Please stop assuming every girl overvalues herself. Sometimes bitchiness is her testing that you really like her because she doesn’t see herself in as nice a light as you.

  • furiousferrett

    “Problem is…BECAUSE I AM A GIRL I HAVE TO SETTLE FOR MARRIAGE NOW AN NOT EXPERIENCE FREEDOM LIKE GUYS DO AND NOT OVEREXERT MYSELF AND DAMAGE MY YOUTH. =(”

    LOL!!!!!!

  • catalinarea

    @ furiousferrett

    what??? how is that funny?? it’s true!! guys can wait till they’re 35, girl have to do it in mid-20s and then never get to experience true freedom and personal development!

    I really don’t get how that is hard to understand/see/empathize with

    Maybe I’m just weird, I don’t know–but there are things I want to experience outside of marriage that doesn’t involve guys or dating. And in fact, a bf, let alone a husband, would interfere with that.

  • furiousferrett

    I totally empathize with your extremely difficult position. It’s simply not fair. You should be able to have your freedom and be able to settle down on your timeline.

    Due to your extremely well reasoned and logical rebuttal I’m remaking my chart to reflect reality:

    alpha males > beta males >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dog/cat > women

    Such a cruel world that we live in. If only these was an ideology that would allow us to fix these terrible injustices done to women who have been historically oppressed by the evil sex known as men.

    Maybe you CatalinaRea could invent such a system and unleash it’s shining light onto the world thus bringing us into a golden age of peace and equality. Maybe you hold the key my oppressed little friend. :).

  • deti

    Catalina Rea’s comments are useful for us to see that many women really do want to be just like men and believe they are just like men.

    Cat wants to be taken seriously. She wants to be “one of the guys” and to “run witht he big boys” in the hustle bustle world of work. She wants her “freedom” and to do things that don’t involve a man.

    Sorry, Cat. Red pill means you must see the world as it is, not as you want it to be. Make your choice: career or man. You can either lock down the best guy you can in your early 20s; or you can go for your career and hope for the best when you’re 35 or so.

    Actually I have a bit of sympathy for Cat because she’s taken the red pill and she realizes, deep down, that it means she has to make a choice NOW (just like men do). Choose the best man she can; and she might miss out on better. Or wait, and work on her career, and take whatever men are left over when she’s done playing career girl.

  • deti

    “what??? how is that funny?? it’s true!! guys can wait till they’re 35, girl have to do it in mid-20s and then never get to experience true freedom and personal development!

    “I really don’t get how that is hard to understand/see/empathize with”

    And there you have it, Cat. What man would want to marry you when your attitude is that marriage = slavery and growth retardation?

    You want to get married when you want to. But what about the man who you will probably marry someday? What about what HE wants from his life and his marriage and his relationships? Is that in any way important to you?

  • Lightning Round – 2013/08/14 | Free Northerner

    […] A woman’s love can’t be reasoned. […]

  • Morden

    @Rollo

    I’ve just found your blog and love it. I think I might have some interesting topics for you.

    Do you have a way to submit links to articles or suggest ideas?

  • catalinarea

    K…..k……I really really really wanna state this because it was my initial reaction out of anger:

    You guys are responding to me like idiots.

    I am not saying that the way things are should be changed or are wrong or something or that I’m not accepting reality (@ furiousferrett)…I’m saying that the reality is stacked AGAINST women and that means I have hard decisions to make while I am still young and inconclusive on life. Which SUCKS and feels like it’s not fair.

    You guys are missing the point that I’m not arguing the reality, I am simply pointing out that reality HURTS women more than you realize… and you should therefore suck it up, buttercup, because your gender is not the only one with issues.

    @ Deti–it’s funny you say that girls wanna be like boys because in my case it is somewhat true–not because of feminism or any of those things you guys rant about–but simply because guys have more freedom and get to do a wider range of interesting intellectual things. Plus I once knew a guy that was AMAZING (that I dated) and I wanted to be LIKE HIM. He had limitless energy, great ambition, etc. Basically he was capable of things that I wanted to do but did not have the energy and drives for due to the fact that I’m a girl (when you really boil it down). Like I think that’s when I realized that yes, because I am a girl, I cannot live the live I always assumed I would ever since I was born. I mean I could…..but it would mean passing up marriage to a decent guy, which I’m not about to give up (I also always wanted that).

    Otherwise, Deti, same goes to you as went to ferrett–I am not “Realizing things deep down” or unable to grasp reality — No, I DO KNOW that I have to make the choice and I am going to choose to marry as young as I can–but this comes with a lot of pain. Hopefully, though, with minimal regret later….

    And as per the issue of whether I am considering men’s needs or whatever. That’s not something I have to worry about anymore–I’m pretty good in that area now and just because I’m ranting about the unfortunate reality doesn’t mean I’m inconsiderate of men or my future partner’s needs.

  • catalinarea

    Another point is that, technically, if I just put in more effort than guys, I could’ve done the same things — I always took gifted math and sciences in high school etc. and was quite ambitious and loved learning technical stuff etc, Then I started dating,,,,(1st year university) and boom: intelligence out the window. It’s like….the sexual/dating dynamics ruin everything for girls in terms of intellectual development and achievement =( Because we have different subconscious goals predetermined by biology ='( . And please don’t take this to mean that I LITERALLY want to be a guy -.- because I’d really rather have a female body.

    My frustrations with your replies were simply that you kept reading into my comments stuff that wasn’t there based on assumptions perpetuated by the manosphere or whatever (yes, most are true but they don;t reflect the nuances and exceptions in the way girls think do exist). (note: if somebody says I’m claiming NAWALT to this, I swear to god I’ll stop replying — if you really are that unwelcoming to actual female commenters then fine; stew in your one-sided philosophies).

  • catalinarea

    should have been clearer *it’s frustrating that you guys reply with typical manosphere scripts before actually reading my comments without bias at first–cus then you’re not actually reading them, just reacting

  • FuriousFerret

    @Cat

    I’m laughing at you because you are e-stamping your feet because you can’t play ‘Sex and the City’ without consequences and you’re genuinely sad about this. It’s hilarious.

    ” No, I DO KNOW that I have to make the choice and I am going to choose to marry as young as I can–but this comes with a lot of pain.”

    Using your youth and beauty to make a guy commit when your stock is the highest. Oh the horror. Noooooooooooooo. Why cruel world why? I want to be a high powered independent business woman that drinks cosmos with my friends while I talk about the latest penis that entered my mouth. It’s so unfair.

    LOL * 100000000!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Kellbell

    I agree with Yep it’s Me about Red Pill women and it’s effect on our behavior. Many of us are quite aware of Game, but will ignore this knowledge or justify it to suit our EMOTIONAL needs at the time. Worse yet, we will try to change the game to fit our rules; to which only betas will succumb. The Red Pill serves to weed them out; if only we can then emotionally handle the true Alpha who won’t take this shit test.

  • Yep It's Me

    @catalinarea

    I believe you have stated your point very clearly, with emphasis and the required amount of emoticons – congrats! Problem is, if you have really taken the Red Pill – you would realize that the Men reading your comments just don’t care. They don’t care because, well, they’re Men.

    You are proving your case with every comment, that women, even thought they “know” the truth, just can’t accept it. Their hamsters will continue to spin and spin – crying “oh, how unfair, there has to be another way”.

    I’m sympathetic to your plight. I have a daughter that is entering the “best years of her life” and have been attempting to educate her, in small bites, on “how the world really works” – but she would rather dismiss what I say and believe the romantic comedies she loves. My oldest son on the other hand, is more than willing to listen.

    There are only two things for you to do (and third one that is optional)…
    1. Continue to blather on about how unfair it all is – and miss out on the current opportunities your life…including love, career, family, friends, experience, etc.
    2. Embrace reality and wake up each day with a smile on your face with the knowledge of “how the world really works” – then start making your nest – either one filled with husband and children or one filled with cats, the complete DVD series of Sex In The City, and all the 50 Shades books.

    and finally 3…
    Stop trying to convince Men how terrible your life is and how you “have to make these decisions”. There was a saying when I was growing (potentially my Dad told me, but I really don’t remember)….Never feel sorry for a woman, they have half the money and all pussy.

  • Yep It's Me

    And one more thing…

    If you are looking for sympathy, I’m hoping you won’t get it here (you will need to go to the hen house for that). And, if you did get it from one or more of the men here – then I’m hoping the real Leaders would give them just tell them to “go to their room” and think about it for a while.

    I read the RooshV article about the Manosphere and how it is dying. Don’t know that I buy into all his points, because I do believe it’s more of an evolution – but there was some truth to what he wrote. That once the women are invited into the conversation – there are lots of men that start to cater to them – either through displays of “see how alpha I am” or by white knighting, telling all the “guys to lay off”.

    I realize words are cheap. And the truth can be hard to swallow. Reality sucks from time to time. No matter. If you fall down, you get yourself up, brush off the dust and do it again. Life is hard. Life is about decisions. LIfe is about navigating through all the shit to get to where you want to be.

    Time to let go of all those words of encouragement your well meaning Mom and Dad gave you growing up telling you “you can be anything, you’re special, the world will notice you” – because if you’re over the age of 18 – and you’re country can had you a gun to fight in their war – then you are old enough to understand that it takes more than just “wanting” something – it takes work, action, persistence, fortitude. And that “getting” something you really wanted, will probably be the disappointing – that what you really enjoyed was the “path” to getting it.

    So strap up soldiers. Eyes front – because that’s where your life it.

  • Opus

    The analogy here, for me, is with religion. The Atheist, just doesn’t get it. The Atheist wants a reasoned explanation as to why the religionist is correct. The religionist is never able to give an explanation which can satisfy the Atheist.

    Bar (two passing remarks) I have never heard any woman display even the slightest understanding of what motivates women or how they should be handled. Asking them is thus beyond pointless. They either want you or they don’t.

  • deti

    “No, I DO KNOW that I have to make the choice and I am going to choose to marry as young as I can–but this comes with a lot of pain.”

    And there you have it again. Marrying young and getting a great guy (hopefully) will involve “a lot of pain”.

    Oh, how horrible to find a great man who loves you and who will do anything for you, who will commit his life to you and work his fingers to the bone for you so you won’t have to.

    Furious had it right. You want to play and have your fun, but you don’t want to pay for it and you want there to be no consequences or to have others absorb the consequences for you.

    I am also taken aback at the lack of consideration Cat has for her future husband. She cares nothing for him, or what he might want or need. It is always, ALWAYS, about her.

  • Archon

    First let me say that dreams of contributing something great to society are just dreams. I’ve talked to way too many young people with dreams of being, effectively, the next Steve Jobs. Sorry, lady, that’s one in a billion.

    Catalina’s argument seems to be “even if men screw up their 20s, if they work hard at it, they can have a career, a loving spouse, and a family. Women have to choose either a family or a career in their early 20s.”

    What you’re missing, Catalina, is that a great many men get none of these. Guys that screw up their 20s are saddled with alimony and child support, perhaps enough that dreams of career advancement or even the simple comforts of the middle class aren’t possible. They WONT get an opportunity to start over in their 30s, and many of them are so distraught after having their lives trashed by greedy, stupid bitches that they kill themselves. Should those guys feel sorry for you?

    If you’re 25 an inconclusive about what you want to do with your life, then … well wtf have you been doing for the past 10 years?

    Now you want a career, a family, and exciting adventure. Society has lied to you about that; told you that you can have it all. Reality says pick one. Don’t complain about reality; that would be irrational. Reality is. Deal with it. You’ll get no sympathy from me about reality.

    You’re afraid of missing out on something better; that’s like hypergamy, and it’s a primitive hind-brain fear. Being indecisive for 5 more years is far worse than any “wrong” choice now, and if your whole brain is focused on not being WRONG then you’re guaranteed to regret ANY choice. Pick one, and be happy in it. Happiness is not a gift handed out by chance; it’s something you choose.

    What you can get is a man that will love you in a deeper way than you could ever understand; you are, biologically, a war bride, and if you’re worth it you could find a red-pill alpha. What you can chase after is someone that will earn enough to give you some of the travel and excitement you crave. And if you still want to do something great and important that will live on long after you — then have children and raise them well.

  • catalinarea

    Aya……you guys are still being idiots and imposing preconceived scripts and expectations on what I’m saying….

    case in point from furiousferrett (and a few other people that alluded that I like 50 shades of grey and sex and the city):
    ” I want to be a high powered independent business woman that drinks cosmos with my friends while I talk about the latest penis that entered my mouth. It’s so unfair.”

    Since when the fuck did I mention that I’m interested in any of this drivel? I don’t read or drink cosmos, I don’t even care about the current female fads, I’m not a slut (like….actually. I still haven’t had penetrative sex and don’t suck penises every weekend), I am NOT interested in a career to sit around and bitch with other women, I think 50 shades of gray is a poorly written comedy (only read an excerpt), I wasn’t a Sex and the City fan, etc etc

    Also to whomever said I’m 25…learn to read–I said I’m 23…and doing my Master’s.

    Another thing that is frustrating is that you guys still don’t get it….I’ve already made my decision more or less BUT I THINK I HAVE THE RIGHT TO SHARE THE PAIN THAT I FACE AT LEAST ONCE IN A HARMLESS COMMENT IF YOU GUYS ARE CONSTANTLY SITTING AROUND BITCHING LIKE HENS YOURSELVES ABOUT HOW UNFAIR THINGS ARE TO MEN!!! THINGS ARE UNFAIR TO BOTH GENDERS (repeating myself here, really) SO EITHER SUCK IT UP OR DON’T EXPECT EMPATHY IF YOU’RE NOT WILLING TO GIVE IT.

    Also, Deti–for the last time–the topics I started here have nothing to do with my future marriage–how hard is it for you to understand that people can discuss different topics independently of each other??? However, your comment brings me back to MY original comment–which is that women need the Red Pill because it lets them know what to give to a man in order to keep him etc…….therefore…..Because of the red pill etc. I know better what would make him happy. But that’s an entirely different subject and I have no desire to prove my wife-material-ness to you guys.

    One more point–because of feminism or whatever–I can’t really rely on my husband to give me all I want because I am FORCED by current social conventions to work. Even though all I wanna do in a marriage is stay at home and cook and create stuffs. I mean it’s possible–but I don’t know if I’m pretty enough to get that. I’ll see.

    Anyways, have to go prepare for an exam ='(

    I think I’m done here–I no longer wanna bicker over these things when my comments are not even properly read and when I have better things to do. Like curl my hair, go to dance class, study, etc. (so again, don’t even try to assume that by “Better things to do” I mean acquiring cats and gossiping)

    Ciao, guys.

    P.S. I am not gonna turn bitter over this and will still frequent these blogs. =P

  • Yep It's Me

    And the class started singing…

    The hamster in the wheel goes round and round, round and round, round and round, the hamster in the wheel goes round and round, all through the day.

  • Monarch Programming

    “Arousal, attraction, sexual tension, subcommunication of desire, all happen indirectly and below the social surface for women. It’s not that women are incapable of reasoning (hypergamy is one logical bitch) or are crippled by their emotion-based hindbrains, it’s that if you’re asking her how to be more attractive you don’t Get It. It’s in the doing, not the asking.”

    Except in the bedroom. That’s one area where things must be articulated clearly, questions asked and instructions given. That’s how great lovers are made, or molded.

  • Tam the Bam

    Poor Cat and Kell.
    Can’t buy a thrill.
    Next.

  • suchagirl2

    @ catalinarea~ shhhhhuussshhh darlin’. (just my suggestion) read and learn

  • suchagirl2

    @ yep thank you, that is all

  • Kellbell

    @ Tam
    Not poor kell at all! I was simply trying to illustrate that women’s emotions interfere with our abilities to reason – period. When I tried to use “reason” to understand the attraction between the alpha I am dating and myself, my female emotions almost fucked me out of further seeing this guy; actually did for a few weeks.
    He is a true alpha, tall, attractive, smart, handsome, great career, confident, goals, emotionally secure, responsible and has garnered my unconditional respect and admiration. He is also 3 years younger than I am.

    When I attempted to use “reasoning” for his attraction to me, as he is fully capable of being with women 10-15 years younger and has, I became emotionally insecure and fucked up.
    My point being that many women will screw themselves if trying to “reason” about attraction.
    I am learning to keep my emotional mouth shut and not question the attraction. In the mean time, I will continue to enjoy the best sex of my life, even at age 53, and continually strive to give him all the good sex he wants, including the blow jobs of a life-time, or as close as I can muster.
    Your sarcastic “sympathy” not needed!

  • Kellbell

    My Alpha guy obviously “just gets it” or I wouldn’t want to fuck his brains out every time I see him.

  • suchagirl2

    @ Kell…here here to your words. Mouth shut, legs open, attraction not promotion (of self)…A true Alpha (such as you and I are both privileged to grace us with his presence and fuck us good) knows what he wants and “gets it”,as well as takes it every time. How can we NOT want to “fuck his (brilliant) brains out”? Glad I took the time to read this particular blog today!

  • itsme

    catalina left before matt king got to game her?

    this place has gone downhill real fast.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    Lol. Matt still has hope for Feminishtix’,..’soul’

  • Kellbell

    @ suchagirl
    No self-promotion at all when we have guys that “fuck us good”; we do it #1 cuz WE WANT TO! When you’re getting it that darn good, only seriously frigid women or psychos wouldn’t want it – all the time! Glad to hear there are more out there, had been giving up hope that any real Alphas existed these days after what so many feminist women have turned men into – then dumped their Beta asses.
    I find it hilarious that my Mom was a psychologist beginning in the 1960’s, at the beginning of the movement. Very radical feminist, man hating, insecure, bitter woman – who has been alone for 40 years! Her conditioning back-fired hugely with this gal!
    Keep on keepin’on, girl!

  • Kellbell

    @Cat
    Error #1, “. . . get a guy to like me . . .”, even after the topic is that attraction has no controllable variables, it just “is” or “isn’t?”.
    # 2. You seem so negative, insecure and lack confidence. No one wants to be around negativity. Alpha men do not put up with it nor do they deal with the other 2. Men, especially Alphas, want in a woman a reflection of themselves, as I have observed over many years. Those qualities in a woman intimidate lesser men.
    Work on dumping all the negativity, start to like and respect yourself, work on esteem and confidence, don’t worry about the future and live in the moment; I can assure you that you will receive much more attention from guys. Worrying about them dumping you will cause exactly that to happen; all self-fulfilling thoughts will end as you believe they will, positive or negative. Thoughts become words, words become actions.
    Relax and quit the over-analysis; something I have to work on daily, btw.

  • suchagirl2

    @ Kell
    I don’t usually “double dip” on these comments, but I felt compelled to add a bit more. My Captain Alpha was at one time pure beta boy, broken and wounded from all the feminists that swarmed his world, not to mention the eff’d up non~available abusive father. I thank the Lord for his “ex” who continuously put up more hoops of the eternal shit tests that he failed over and over until his mind exploded. Her toss and loss is my gain and blessing! Since he choked down the entire red pill, he is Captain “A” and I’m not takin’ Asshole by any means! I praise him often of his changes and tell him PLEASE don’t ever change back. His reply, “that man is DEAD!” How lucky we are to have these blogs in the spheres to find the like minded and rebuke those who are trolling just to get the inside scoop rather than doing the real work!

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