Never Take a Woman Fishing

never_fishing

(h/t to Zelscorpion for the image and ref for today’s post)

Hi Rollo,
On rereading Truth to Power a very inspirational post, I wanted to hear your thoughts on men with families such as my self choosing to travel on vacation alone.

In your videos above you touched on masculine qualities men being in the driver seat around decision making. I have a wife you as with many women is cultured to try assume headship of the household with decision making even vacations etc.

She doesn’t want to travel abroad as we have a 7 month old son where as I feel there is no reason why she should worry about doing so. Anyway the crux of the issue is I am only 28 years old and having sacrificed my independence early (at 25) have a desire to travel and I don’t care about rocking the boat to make that happen.

I would love to hear some advice about the benefits of and good ways of grabbing hold again of control of our own circumstances and decisions!

Never take a woman fishing.

That’s a little idiom I learned way before I was Red Pill aware from the guy who was the best man at my wedding, and my long time fishing buddy. I wouldn’t call him a philosopher, but he was a keen observer of women’s behavior and became salt-of-the-earth wise by default:

“When you take a woman fishing you’re trying to include them in something they really don’t want to be doing, but you like it a lot. So you think ‘I like fishing and I want to include her in something we can do together’, but when you do she complains about EVERYTHING. ‘It’s dirty, I’m cold, I’m hot, I didn’t bring a water bottle, where’s the sunscreen?, there’s too many bugs, why are there so many bugs?, why do we have to hike so far to fish? can’t we just find a spot by the dam? where’s the bathroom?, etc. etc.”

“So what do you do? You force yourself to make her comfortable the whole damn time. You don’t hike, you don’t scout for the sweet spots on the river or, God forbid, you try to get her in a kayak. You end up going out after breakfast and the light’s all wrong. You try to keep them clean and close to the ‘potty’, you bait their hook ’cause it’s filthy, you untangle their reel snarls,…what you don’t do is fish. Your whole trip becomes about making her ‘like’ fishing with you and not about actually fishing and doing all the things we do when we fish together or on our own. I mean, you want ’em to like it, but you’ll never teach them to like it because you’re too busy making everything right for ’em.”

“Unless they were brought up right and they dig fishing ’cause their Dad taught ’em to like it, never try to bring a woman fishing. They gotta come to liking it on their own, they gotta want to do it on their own. I mean, look at Dodge (our dog) he don’t care if it’s cold or 4am, he’s happy to be on the trail going wherever the fuck we’re headed.”

Back in May Zelscorpion tweeted a few of the pictures from this series and made an interesting point:

I had to admit, he’s got a point and it reminded me of the sage words of my Best Man. I think one of the tragedies of men’s Blue Pill conditioning is the presumption that they must find a way, sometimes forcibly, to become more compatible with a woman. I wrote about the paradox of compatibility a while back:

It’s very entertaining for me to hear guys reason as to why they got into yoga, or my all time favorite, salsa dancing as some means of meeting girls. I mean really, if that’s the goal you choose to devote the precious few hours of your leisure time to then I suppose a guy ought to take up scrap-booking or zumba.

If you’re picking up a hobby in order to meet women all you’re doing is attempting to Identify with what you expect your idealized woman to appreciate. If you get into something for this reason it’s not a hobby, it’s a Buffer.

Successful men don’t chase success – success chases them. Women are going to expect you to have your own uncontrived, interests, passions and hobbies established before meeting them.

When I first began counseling men in my SoSuave days many times I’d read guys telling me, “Well if she’s not into the same things I am she’s just not the ‘right’ girl for me”, as if common interests were some criteria that would trump his sexual interests in a girl. Blue Pill idealism convinces men that the “right girl” will necessarily love doing the same things as himself, but the all too common Red Pill truth is that men will have their peak experiences in life alone or in the company of other men who share the passions and interests their wives simply have no interest in.

Peak Experience

I don’t subscribe to Maslow’s theories in whole, but I do think his Peak Experience idea has merit. There will be times and achievements in your life that will stand out as significantly memorable. It’s easy to point to the experiences that should be the most significant; a marriage, the birth of a child, a religious experience, a first kiss, a school graduation, etc., you get the idea – experiences that should be the standard fare in a romanticized, idealistic sense.

We tend to overblow these experiences because we think they should be something to etch in our consciousness; and if we don’t, well, then there must be something wrong with us for not appreciating their popular significance. Tragically it’s our negative experiences that have the most lasting effect on us; evolution has made pain something memorable so as to help us avoid potentially life-ending future experiences. But the events that should evoke lasting good memories, the ones we are taught should be significant, are often the ones we ruin with unrealistic expectations, or we build up only to have them not quite live up to the fantasy we make of them.

The Peak Experiences I’m talking about here aren’t planned, or are just loosely planned by necessity. Some of the most memorable events you’ll ever experience wont be ones that you had a forethought about. These are often the experiences we hope to recreate long after they occur, but prove impossible to really recapture. Much of what makes up our personal preferences in life come from these spontaneous Peak Experiences. Remember the first girl you got with? Remember that time when things aligned just perfectly for you to hit that hole in one?

One of the reasons I have such a passion for snowmobiles was due to a day I blew off work so I could go out for the entire day on a beautiful Lake Tahoe morning. I went on my own which is something I rarely did. It was a Wednesday so there was nobody on the trails. The snow was only a day old and I took my sled to the top of a place called High Meadows, but even this pristine place wasn’t high enough. I took off in the back country and got to the top of a peak that was as high as I dared to go alone. Once I got there I had a view of the lake that I imagine few people had experienced. Then I fell back on the seat of my sled and stared at a sky that was so blue I never thought of it in the same way again. I laid there for a long time just staring and thinking about life and living and God and the universe.

On my way down the hill I thought how cool it would be to bring Mrs. Tomassi up there so she could appreciate it too. I mean, why wouldn’t I want to share such an incredible Peak Experience with the woman I love; the woman I want to share my life with? To this day Mrs. T has only been on my sled about 3 times. She’s very self-cautious and doesn’t like the smell and sound of the engine. That might seem trivial, but no matter how much I can try to relate that experience or try to recapture it no one but myself will ever have that unique event.

Experience & Frame

When I look at the guy with his dog in these camping shots I can now appreciate them much more because I know he’s experienced that same uniqueness. When you plan an event with a woman, when you make efforts to bring her into an appreciation of something you enjoy the experience of you must remember that you are, in essence, negotiating for her genuine desire to do so.

Now, before I’m run up the flagpole for suggesting otherwise, yes I know that many men and women do in fact find pleasure in commonly held interests. I see women on the river fishing in waders and at Trout Unlimited events all the time. My point isn’t the interest itself, but rather the desire to participate in it. A lot of guys hold the belief that including their wife, girlfriend or even a girl they’re spinning as a plate in something they think she should enjoy will have the effect of bringing them closer. The inherent problem with this is the presumption that including her in it will lead to some new shared experience that will bond them both in a genuine way.

The problem with preplanned ‘date nights’ is the same problem men experience with trying to pull a woman into his Frame by insisting she take up one of his hobbies or passions; it’s contrived and feels disingenuous to her. The point of the experience becomes about her being involved in it and not the actual doing of whatever it is you do together. The vibe becomes one of him making and controlling that experience so it becomes something pleasurable for her to participate in rather than really finding some inherent reward from it due to genuine interest.

Thus you get guys who (figuratively) take their women fishing and the event becomes more about introducing her to it than actually catching fish. Guys get so caught up in controlling unpleasant variables for her that the real experience of fishing is something entirely different. They want that woman to feel the same joy he does in doing something intrinsically rewarding to him, but the truth of it is she must come to it on her own.

Always Maintain Your Individualism

And this leads us back, once again, to establishing and maintaining a positive, dominant and individualistic Frame with a woman. She must want to enter your reality for it to be a genuine desire on her part – you cannot lead her into it, she must enter it of her own volition. Spontaneity is the key. Whether it’s an ‘insta-date’ from a PUA perspective, or an unexpected twist of plans in your marriage, that woman must want to participate in that event, in that moment of her own accord.

A good test of genuine interest with a woman is less about how open she is to trying “your things” and more about how insistent she is instigating her own participation in them. The trap most Betas fall into is converting “his things” into “our things” and he compromises those previously rewarding experiences into a sideshow he hopes will bond he and his woman together.

In Male Space I made this point:

When the influence of feminine-primacy is introduced into social settings made up mainly by men and male-interests, the dynamics and purpose of that group changes. The purpose becomes less about the endeavor itself and more about adherence to the feminine-inclusionary aspect of that endeavor. It starts to become less about being the best or most passionate at what they do, and more about being acceptable to the influence of the Feminine Imperative while attempting maintaining the former level of interest in the endeavor.

A similar dynamic plays out when men try to open the Male Space of whatever it is they find individually enjoyable to the women they hope will share in his enthusiasm. One thing I learned very early on in my marriage was the absolutely vital importance of maintaining my individual identity apart from my wife.

The biggest mistake I made when I was involved in LTRs prior to meeting my wife was allowing myself to get caught up in the equalist idea that since both men and women were functional equals we should necessarily base our compatibility estimates on how alike we were in interests. Consequently I progressively began convincing myself that I found their interests fascinating, but in doing so I slipped into their Frame. I was too scared of losing a woman and was too necessitous to experiment with doing what I should have – insisting on maintaining my individual interests and maintaining my own reality for a woman to enter.

I was fortunate in that Mrs. T expected me to control the Frame from the start of our relationship. I’ll admit, at the time it was something very unfamiliar to me to have a woman expect me to prioritize my interests above her own, but the purpose of this was establishing a Frame she wanted to enter into. Today I adamantly insist on having a life that is apart from her, but she can enter into if she has a real interest in it. This blog is just one extension of that dynamic.

If you are to maintain a dominant Frame with a woman you must necessarily set your interests apart from her own. You must still insist on your individualized identity and the experiences that set you apart from her in order to maintain a reality in which she continually wishes to genuinely be a part of.

Ted had a great comment from last week’s thread that speaks to this:

I don’t expect my wife to be like a man with male interests. I expect her to be a human with human interests. Something deeper than pop culture anyway.

I know a little bit about a whole lot of stuff. I’m willing to chat about any number of subjects other than tech and politics. It just has to he something better than what’s on TV and the weather. I keep hearing women can do anything a man can, so let’s see some intellectual debate!

More often than not truths must be brought to women by men. It’s uniquely refreshing when women have the critical insight to look for truths, but it’s refreshing because it’s rare – and it’s refreshing when they seek them from a man who’s Frame she’s chosen to be a part of. One of the best aspects of the principle of Amused Mastery is that, if you actually have the mastery that comes from individualized experience, it makes maintaining a positive, dominant and enjoyable Frame much easier with the same woman.

776 comments

  1. While women are certainly frequent projectors , us males have our own faults in this area. This is one of them.

    It is often assumed because we guys derive pleasure from Activity X, women should too. Especially the one we designate as spouse or the LTR.

    I worked as a range officer back in my military days. A lot of average Joes would bring the wife /gf to the range , seemingly oblivious to the fact that their woman didn’t give a flying damn about any of it and was only humoring them.

    Men and women derive pleasure from a whole different set of activities and hobbies from each other , and that is OK. The problem is society doesn’t agree.

    The Blue Pill Schema is that your master, err woman should be into the same things you are because ‘perfect couple’. We can get a real dangerous scenario where an a female after the man’s money will humor his hobbies long enough to secure the commitment. And then shazam …suddenly she hates fishing, snowmobiling, etc. I’ve seen guys marry women convinced she’s “the one” because she likes cars the way he does, then post marriage its nagging and bitching about the same hobby he’s shared with her pre-marriage.

    Part of keeping frame is realizing there is no we, just you and she.

  2. “She must want to enter your reality for it to be a genuine desire on her part – you cannot lead her into it, she must enter it of her own volition.”

    Lock, stock, the fuckin’ lot!

  3. Good Lord…where was this post when I was 22 years old? 😅😆😂 And now, at 47, women get angry I do NOT include them on my travels. I get the sense they want the ability to say “No.” upon being asked. Another one on target, Rollo. Thank you. ✌🎩

  4. I have a wife you as with

    was that supposed to be “I have a wife who as with”

    delete this after using or not

  5. Great post. I honestly think one of the main reasons my marriage (17 years) has been as successful as it has been is because my husband never assumed I’d want to participate in his hobbies. And lord knows he has no interest in mine…

  6. Truth.

    I tried to ” include ” my first wife. Not satisfying. Big mistake actually.

    Decided to not include wife #2 in MY activities. I even downplayed the things that I really loved because I didn’t want to soft pressure her into ” doing my things with me “.

    Worked well.

    What did happen though? I love the outdoors, specifically Virginia, particularly the area my family hails from waaaaayyyyy out in the woods on the Carolina border.

    Took family there to visit my folks.

    My wife and daughters said I was ” different ” when I was down there. I never pressed them about how I was different. I took them sightseeing, even though there’s not much to see compared to New Jersey and New York, but there’s a huge lake and the dam my grandfather worked at. My cousin raises horses and I taught my youngest to ride there. I told my wife and daughter about my grandparents and the ( basically log cabin ) home they lived in. They’ve been gone about 10 years now. I told them how my grandmother planted roses and how amazing they used to be. I took them to where the house was/is and it was overgrown with trees and bushes and grass, but just in front were giant rose bushes in full, blazing bloom.

    Wife cried (?). Whoa.

    Now they look forward to going to a place where the supermarket is a 11 mile drive to a town with a population of about 600 people. That place is in my marrow and I love it. I never expected my wife to have any kind of feelings about it one way or another, and I really didn’t care.

    Funny how stuff works sometimes.

    My wife’s family has land in Puerto Rico. We had to make the trip to visit relatives. As soon as I stepped off the plane in Aguadilla and smelled the air, it was Virginia all over again, with palm trees. Now I have 2 favorite places. Fellows, the house is on a mountain top overlooking the town that’s about 5 miles away. There’s a constant light breeze and it smells magnificent. My hammock is at the edge of a cliff, that’s where I have my coffee every morning when I’m there.

    We have these places. We didn’t set out to have the shared experiences.

    My family loves my art, but the guitar, the ( former ) drag racing almost-notoriety, my green thumb and my ability with animals ( I have a trained, killer parakeet and fish that jump out of the aquarium into my hands..) does not move them at all, and that’s fine. Not to mention that they still have no clue what I actually do for a living.

    Great descriptive post Rollo.

  7. Oh man, I’ve screwed this up.

    So a woman that not only makes every effort to not include herself in my activities, but actually does her best to sabotage those activities, is probably not into me then, eh?

    Or when every unexpected positive twist in the marriage occurs, and I stress the word positive, and it’s met with negativity and resistance, passive aggressive anger and attempts at manipulation and control. Or jealousy that I created positive change and she didn’t.

    Never again.

  8. Great post. I like to go hunting/fishing and I’ve found its best to let women know I do it, but NEVER invite them to it. They have to ask. Step into “my world” voluntarily. I’ve noticed over the years, if the woman doesn’t persistently insist in participation, then you shouldn’t bother.

    Good post & so true on “male spaces” again. Unless the woman “feels” a need to go with it, then why bother pushing it? Men must have their own identity & space.

  9. You know it’s trouble when you hear this regarding a hobby or pursuit:

    “Isn’t it time you grew up and got over that?”

    How many men have gotten onto the downward spiral by giving in at that point?

  10. The mistake I made was a little different

    My wife and I had our own activities (I’m keeping this vague so has not to dox myself). At a certain point she decided she wanted to do one of my main activities, and put in the thousands of hours of prep to be able to do so. Some years later, she then developed a health issue, and had to stop, and asked me to stop since it was now “our activity”. I did, and took up a replacement activity (which is about 99.9999% male).

    A few months ago, I said enough, and returned to doing “our activity”. I told her she should never have demanded (crying, drama) that I couldn’t do the activity without her, and she replied that all she had done was just ask me not to do it (forgetting crying, drama). She toughed it out and did some of it too, and now I have to find the non-work time for the activity, the replacement activity, my other projects and activities, and the most time consuming thing of all, reading/watching all of YaReally’s comments.

  11. “…I have to find the non-work time for the activity, the replacement activity, my other projects and activities, and the most time consuming thing of all, reading/watching all of YaReally’s comments”

    Lol.

  12. ” One of the reasons I have such a passion for snowmobiles was due to a day I blew off work so I could go out for the entire day on a beautiful Lake Tahoe morning. I went on my own which is something I rarely did. It was a Wednesday so there was nobody on the trails. The snow was only a day old and I took my sled to the top of a place called High Meadows, but even this pristine place wasn’t high enough. I took off in the back country and got to the top of a peak that was as high as I dared to go alone. Once I got there I had a view of the lake that I imagine few people had experienced. Then I fell back on the seat of my sled and stared at a sky that was so blue I never thought of it in the same way again. I laid there for a long time just staring and thinking about life and living and God and the universe.”

    And now this will run through my mind on a loop for the next 24-48 hours.

  13. This is a great post. I used to invite girls to activities I take part in…now unless they’re already part of that community or are somehow accomplished…never again. They expect tons of attention, they cramp your style and because they’re relative outsiders, you’re baby-sitting.

    I took a 21 year old girl I was banging to a Latin dance party. I met her at one so figured it would be fine. We sat separately so she could mingle more. Big mistake. She became the target of some beta orbiter, she had no idea how to refuse his advances, she complained, she was bored.

    More importantly…I felt like I was babysitting and explaining the rules of social interaction. Waste of my time.

    I now get girls asking me to take them to stuff. I tell them they’d be bored and if they’re keen to learn, experience, join…they should make the effort on their own. Not one has ever done this suggesting that they’re kind of relying on me for their entertainment and attention.

    Before learning game I really thought being the “host” or the “teacher” or the “Guru” was a way to get girls…it isn’t unless they’ve met you on your terms in your own element. Otherwise you’re just a try-hard guy trying to impress a girl by imposing your hobbies and interests on her.

    The problem is guys don’t know how to refuse and so end up taking a girl to something where the girl is a drag.

  14. Long time reader. First time to comment. Thanks Rollo.

    This is OT. Just wanted to bring to your attention one more manifestation of AF/BB.

    “It would have been better if I had married before I met you, because then you could have given me a few months of fulfilling attentions which is all, apparently, that women need, & then I could have returned to the someone who, possibly, would have cared for me.”

    From a letter to poet George Barker. He fathered 15 children from 4 different women (AF before the pill).
    http://www.lettersofnote.com/2015/10/i-see-no-beauty-in-lopsided-true-love.html

  15. That Peak Experiences thing really hit home for me.

    I expected my first sexual experience, graduating college, proposing to my wife, or wedding day to be peak experiences because, on paper, shouldn’t they? They weren’t.

    All of my peak experiences were doing great things with other men. I’d never tell my wife this, but our wedding day and honeymoon (which were totally fine) pales in comparison to the two days I was in Alabama watching the massive heavy lift project I designed go off without a hitch.

    Seeing 200 tons of steel soar into the air because I figured out how to do it was more amazing to me than watching her walk down the aisle. My other peak experiences were similar.

    And I love my wife. But my identity isn’t in being her husband. Its in being a doer of badass shit. I think that’s what being a man is all about.

  16. “Never take a woman fishing”,

    Most of the time, I don’t want to take a woman to bed either. The crap you have to hear before and after, (I come).

  17. You know Rollo, typical of nearly every other blog post of yours that I have read, you could have said everything you said without having to be, frankly, an asshole about it.

    But of course, your audience enjoys broad mildly misogynistic statements like ‘never take a woman fishing.’

    I did get the point of the post. And maybe if it wasn’t so full of generalizations I’d take it more seriously.

  18. @Rollo

    an asshole about it

    Quit giving all the bitches tingles and leave the rest of us some birds, bro.

  19. As for the post, this is pretty much the advice I give every single friend currently in an LTR. Most of them are in LTRs they shouldn’t be in and clutch their Blue Pills if I so much as mention the truth, but they’ll at least take the advice to no bring their chicks on shit they enjoy.

    Case in point: my wing chun sifu’s chick hears about the trip I took on the bike, has never ridden a motorcycle in her life, wants them to buy a couple and just head out on a trip like that. She shows up at class asking about things, I tell her I wouldn’t recommend doing such a trip with less than 2-3 years of riding experience under your belt; too much shit can go wrong and you can find yourself really isolated in a dangerous situation. Don’t want to add wrecking a bike due to inexperience in to the mix to make matters worse.

    She leaves a bit sobered by the idea, next class she ain’t there so I tell the sifu “If she wants to ride, get her something cheap and let her, but don’t plan this trip. She likes the idea of the trip, but she won’t like the actual trip.”

    Last I heard, he had the good sense to tell her “Get a bike and we’ll see how enthusiastic you are about it after a couple years.” I’m betting she follows the typical chick “I ride motorcycles” script of buy bike, drive bike a few times the first couple months, don’t touch for a year or two, sell. Never seen any woman that wasn’t a tatted up dyed in the wool queen of the trailer park do anything else.

  20. Emily: From the quoted source, this is right at the beginning:
    “Unless they were brought up right and they dig fishing ’cause their Dad taught ’em to like it, never try to bring a woman fishing. They gotta come to liking it on their own, they gotta want to do it on their own.”

    “Fishing” in the context of the overall article is metaphorical anyway. FWIW, living in a fishing town I’ve seen this a lot. Guy brings a girl on the boat (often, our boat) and she pretends to like it, but then doesn’t and gets sick and they have to go home.
    Some women here love it, most don’t…but only women who already fish as a burning passion will Mike take on those trips with the guys (note that I am never on those long trips…I’m only good for short ones as I, too, am not a die hard fisher person. Or fisherperson at all for that matter).

  21. FWIW, my .01 cents to this portion: “She doesn’t want to travel abroad as we have a 7 month old son where as I feel there is no reason why she should worry about doing so. Anyway the crux of the issue is I am only 28 years old and having sacrificed my independence early (at 25) have a desire to travel and I don’t care about rocking the boat to make that happen.”

    I think I’m in a pretty good position to know since we were living in Europe at about the same point in our lives, with very small children. Traveling with small children sucks. That ride across the ocean sucks and it takes forever to get them back on a schedule. But one baby is easier than two which is easier than three. Anyway…I’d wait to travel until you can enjoy it. If you take the baby, it won’t be a bonding or fun trip at all…if your marriage is very good you’ll look at it fondly, but only because it sucked so much it was humorous.

  22. I have personally a girlfriend, who loves to do out outdoor activities, camping and of course prefers to travel with me everywhere.

    But early on in the relationship I told her that I need to travel alone or with my male friends. I am a lone wolf kind of guy anyway and also the dynamic is utterly changed when even one woman joins the group. So I introduced her to the idea that we will have two kinds of travel and activities in our lives: things we do apart and things we do together.

    And so it is – I travel alone or with my friends 50% of the time.It was funny last time as I met with a group of friends, we had a freshly married one in his early 30s among us. It was the first time he took a trip apart from his wife and former girlfriend. They had been together for 7 years and this was the first time he took time off from work to travel without her. We looked at him and said: “Yes – we men need that from time to time and you should tell your wife so. She’ll understand.”

  23. @Liz, I got his point, I just don’t like the generalizations and the way he gets his point across.

    Oh, and reading the comments never fail to make me sick. So bye, def not returning here.

  24. @ Rollo

    I certainly agree that maintaining your individualism very important.

    But apparently bringing a woman to action dates (even after being married) is a good idea, it provides opportunities for her to see your mastery and to position yourself to teach her (using the opportunity to touch her and so on). I think a corollary of your recent post is that in such a situation, be sure you are teaching her something she actually wants to learn.

    It could be hard to know if she is just faking interest to get into an LTR or marriage, there are several reports about that around.

  25. “My daddy took me fishing all the time as a teen.
    So shut up. Just please, shut, the, f*ck, up.”

    Bitch missed the entire point. Quelle surprise.

  26. @Emily: “I just don’t like the generalizations and the way he gets his point across.”

    So you just had to throw a hissy fit and suck the fun right out of it. Q.E.D. and toughen up, Buttercup.

    “So bye, def not returning here.”

    Prove it, or forever be known as a liar.

  27. She’ll be back. She hasn’t made it clear enough how right she is yet. Cracks me up though. She is so emphatic that she gets the point, but she missed it entirely. I guess she thinks Rollo isn’t supposed to make generalizations at all. Hear that @Rollo. Next post, I want an individually tailored version of your post for everyone of your commenters. Enough of these generalizations! LOL

  28. @emily, no, you quite clearly didn’t get the point. Stop trying to rationalize that you do.

    “I just don’t like the generalizations and the way he gets his point across.”

    I sometimes wonder where the argument “you can’t generalize” comes from. Isn’t this the most idiotic idea in the world? And it escapes from people’s lips without even a thought of what they are doing or saying. Of course you can generalize. In fact, you must generalize. To fail to generalize is to demand that all things must only be regarded in terms of the lowest common denominator. The lowest common denominator doesn’t particularly lead to the highest pinnacles we can achieve, does it?

    Oh, and reading the comments never fail to make me sick. So bye, def not returning here.

    Pffft, you’ll continue to lurk here – we all know that.

  29. “I sometimes wonder where the argument “you can’t generalize” comes from.”

    She obviously didn’t major in a STEM field requiring some knowledge of statistics. Tool of the patriarchy, don’cha know.

    “To fail to generalize is to demand that all things must only be regarded in terms of the lowest common denominator.”

    Lowering things to the lowest common denominator was a goal of feminism 2.0. Feminism 4.0 seeks to lower things to the lowest possible denominator.

  30. My dad didn’t want to be a “killer and an asshole” like his father, so he never took me hunting or fishing as a kid.

    I was taught how to fish, as an adult, by a woman. And she made it a miserable experience.

    So combining this post and the last; TAKE YOUR SONS FISHING.

    (or whatever male only experience is good for you)

  31. @Emily – Look up the word “idiom” – my guess is you don’t know what the word means. I know, all these words and complicated ideas are overwhelming for you as you are used to the world being served up to you by Blue Pill men who dumb shit down for you and don’t challenge you. This place is an exception to all that.

    idiom – a phrase or a fixed expression that has a figurative, or sometimes literal, meaning. An idiom’s figurative meaning is different from the literal meaning.

    It’s a metaphor of sorts and its only purpose is to convey an idea, it’s not meant to be precise. Rollo identifies “Never take a woman fishing” as an idiom in his essay. But you don’t even understand any of this, do you? His level of refinement and his rhetorical skills just fly way over your head.

    That’s not the surprising part – many people are not as intelligent as Rollo. But what’s revealing about you is that you feel entirely entitled to call him an asshole without even really “getting” what he has to say. And you also claim to agree with his points – do you get what a fucking dingbat you are?

    Big learning for me recently is how stupid most women are – not all women, but most. I realize I’ve been talking over most of their heads for years and that they really don’t even understand what I’m talking about a lot of the time.

  32. I enjoy being taught by my husband a lot, and it’s something that makes me feel very attracted to him, but it should definitely be an occasional thing. I like when he’s having some kind of emotional moment over football that I can’t fathom and he explains what’s happening to me.

    I can imagine that being taught to fish by him would be sexy, but ideally it would be a in a moment specially created for me to learn from him, not for me to be initiated into fishing for real.

    I like visiting his world.

    -Visiting- being the keyword. I don’t want football to actually become a part of my world too. I like that there are parts of him that are far away and different from me. Having separate worlds is an important part of maintaining interaction.

  33. @Liz & Zelescorpion – Yeah, I have to agree with Liz here. While I think a long weekend away with your buddies is absolutely called for – and always is (back country skiing or playing poker in Vegas, whatever) – taking an infant on a long, international trip is a disaster in the making. As Liz notes, you will not have fun as it will be a huge pain in the ass to do so with a young baby and it will also be stressful as shit for your wife. I also think if you were to do so alone, leaving for a week or longer of time now, to a far away foreign country is completely inconsiderate of your family situation.

    It isn’t “alpha” to demand selfishly that “I’m 28 and want to travel” and have a hissy fit, it’s immature and inconsistent with being a good father. Grow up dude, you are father now. Sure, take time for yourself and establish now with your wife that you will always have a separate life, but you have to balance things in life.

    Just sayin’…

  34. @Is this thing on – That article made me so angry. This guy is literally calling for the ‘re-education of boys’ starting at a young age which will focus explicitly on equalism. This guy sounds like a fascist, truly and he doesn’t even know it. Re-education is always necessary to make the collectivist, Utopian fantasies of radicals come true.

    Another way of putting it? The only thing that stands in the way of Social Justice Utopia is human nature, and specifically male nature. Wow, just wow. It makes me want to join a militia and start the revolution now. I don’t want to share a country with such people and in fact, view them as my mortal enemy. Their arrogance and stupidity is only topped by their presumed moral superiority.

  35. redlight,

    “and the most time consuming thing of all, reading/watching all of YaReally’s comments.”

    This is became such a problem that I gave up fishing.

  36. I have a different take on that ScribblerG. I used to think women were stupid and incompetent. I used to think that my wife was incompetent when she lost her keys, credit card, and nowadays the cell phone.

    But I woke up one day a while ago to the fact that it was intentional. An entirely intentional mindset in going about their business. It was a statement that she didn’t give a fuck about three of the most important items in her life. (This is in contrast with a man being mindful to never misplace his keys, his wallet or his cell phone–he’s not that stupid, he would think himself an idiot unless he had feminine leanings.) Because she was so special that some white knight would always swoop into to magically replace one of those three items. She didn’t need to be mindful. That is what her orbiter was for.

    And Emily was just giving a Masculine Tell. She’s offended that Rollo is not treating her as an equal in the metaphorical fisher-woman sense. “She likes fishing too, so Rollo is wrong.”

    She’s just announcing her lack of femininity in pushing her agenda that males don’t need their space physically and spiritually, either singly or in groups of men in male spaces. Men are there to cater to her needs, not to go out on their own and be independent.

    Typical FI social convention.

  37. @scribblerg

    The first thing I noted in that article is that he is the product of a single mother. He sights that she was all the strong things historically attributed to men. I’d feel sorry for him if he weren’t doing so much damage himself. I really hope Rollo can take the time to pull the wings of that fly. Oh shit. Emily might take that last sentance literally. I’ll have to re-think it. 🙂

  38. OT, but someone very close to me, who was going to break up with his girl, just found out he violated Tomassi Iron Rule #5.

    “Dude, the pill is only 99% effective. I suppose it was meant to happen”

    Oh yeah, it was meant to happen buddy.

    That’s twice in 3 years I have seen that rule proven correct.

  39. I used to get quite righteous and contemptuous about how my wife had female attitudes about everything. Then I realized it was necessarily true that my wife was a female, duh. And that values are (in most cases) arbitrary. These days it never even occurs to me to encourage my wife to come along on hiking/camping trips …

  40. @SJF: Take it a half step further; she knows that when you have been “out with the boys” there will be a period of time after your return before you can be “returned to the fold,” which will make your coming home even more annoying to her than your going away was.

    When you go away, you are not there to cater to her needs, but when you come back, you will be there, but resistant to catering to her needs.

  41. “I laid there for a long time just staring and thinking about life and living and God and the universe.”

    this is a joke, right? right? a capital g?

    belief in/supplication to the middle eastern goat-fuckers’ magical sky monster is the bluest pill of them all.

    at least the pedestal betas worship something real.

    something about the fruit of the tree sustained by the poisoned well comes to mind.

    if your sons aren’t pointing out serious holes in the goat-fuckers made-up story by the age of eight you’ve failed them.

    clearly most people are not ready to be unplugged. or “rollo” is in the cia and this is a disinformation honey pot. either way

    *all my posts were fictional and for entertainment purposes only*

  42. “As Liz notes, you will not have fun as it will be a huge pain in the ass to do so with a young baby and it will also be stressful as shit for your wife.”
    Thanks, scribblerg. Just thinking further, it’s all coming back to me.
    We really tried everything, even the stuff that one would think is somewhat “kid friendly” (example, the beaches of Sardinia).
    Maybe Austria and Germany, those were the most kid-friendly places we went. But even there it’s crying so you can’t go into Neuschwanstein castle or that horse and buggy trip because it will annoy people on their vacations. It’s hard enough to take a baby to the supermarket let alone a big trip with a big schedule.
    The hotels aren’t really set up for toddlers and babies so you’re annoying everyone in their rooms (try this in Switzerland after 9 at night and they’ll yell at you through the walls). In Sardinia you think, “Cool! This is perfect…a beach…” but the babies put everything into their mouths and the sand grains are big so you’re trying to stop them and keep them in the middle of the large beach blanket while they’re rolling to the sides and crawling and trying to shovel that stuff that will give them craps and hurt to pass through their poo. GAH! That doesn’t even touch on the hotel floor. Can’t put the baby down on that, it’s nasty and there might be a penny it can choke on, or a needle or something.

    Anyway, yeah we have some stories and we laugh about them…but really, it would have been nice to be in Europe after the toddler and baby years, not during.
    Thanks for allowing me into your guy-space. Backing out again now so you folks can talk.
    🙂

  43. LeeLee brings up a good point.

    “I like visiting his world.”

    When a woman says that to herself, that is an Alpha Tell for the male.

    I was never blue pill in my “never take a woman fishing adventures”. But I was certainly beta in not converting my wife to say “I want to visit his world”. “It seems so exciting.”

    I was Mr. Hobby incarnate in my previous four decades. (golf, firearms, reloading, kayaking, mountain biking, hiking, nature photography, cigar connoisseur (able to discriminate tobacco leaf differences), flower and vegetable gardening, building computers from scratch, late in life hunting, farming, wildlife habitat, chainsaw felling huge trees, stock-picking (never took a tax loss on a 100K portfolio in 20 years) and of course fishing by myself. (I have had my own man space a 40 mile trip away for the last 8 years–40 acres and a cabin to hunt and farm– that my wife has visited 4 1/2 times.)

    Hell I even spent a time making home-made soaps. And my wife didn’t even think that was cool at the time. I made some good soaps along with my reloaded 30,000 reloaded firearms bullets.

    Never once did my wife think they were cool hobbies. But that was because she kept frame. And I didn’t. It didn’t matter to me at the time and I loved every passion that I pursued. It made me better at being a man and taught me how to have fortitude to make any hurdle in life seem smaller. That has changed for me.

    I now get it thanks to TRM and Rollo. With red pill awareness and game, I am able to maintain frame and draw her into my reality. I used to never be good at keeping frame and maintaining a dominant presence on mutual vacations with her. And I tried to compensate by going my own way on hobby pursuits and even on business conference vacations. Now that I “just get it” I can keep frame and I now understand the dynamic is just too important and life is too short to go my own way. I am now able to draw her into my world and am able to pursue adventures with her (mostly social engagements like football tailgaters and country club socialization, as well as interact well in small social groups of 1 to 6 other couples). Red pill awareness and game practice is invaluable for these social interactions and is able to get me a tremendous amount of energy flow toward me (even as I remain primarily introverted).

    TL;DR: Your female partner not thinking what you do when you go “fishing by yourself” is cool is a Beta Tell.

  44. We didn’t get that much female commenting in a while. Interesting how they feel triggered by that topic and title.

    Funny thing is how fishing is probably the male activity you should indeed never consider letting your women join because it’s like the total antithesis to what women like: You’ll sit outside in ugly dresses far from any society and you gotta keep quiet all the time while for most of it nothing at all happens.

    What should worry you though, Rollo, is how you didn’t get any protest or nothing to trigger the female readers in your parenting posts. That’s suspicious if you ask me.

  45. Another aspect of travelling with a very small child; the child will grow up hearing about all the cool places he has been – but can’t remember.

  46. Sorry, one more thing. The packing. I have Italian cousins and they went ahead in their cars on many of these trips and brought all the provisions. I can’t imagine trying to load all the stuff on a plane. Children require and inverse proportion of stuff per body weight. Babies require the most kit, toddlers next most…by the time they’re teens they are good with a cell phone.

    -Liz out

  47. I am so glad that my peak experiences have mostly come from my sport of choice, sailing. I have done it since I was a kid and raced since I was a kid. From single handed to being part of a much larger team in some projects. The sport has in many ways defined my life and what I am. I found lots of cute babes along the way in that environment to have fun with and even some LTR’s. Racer chasers are good for racers like me. Luckily due to lots of work and patience I managed to actually get really good at it, such that for the most part in my home waters at least I can AMOG in that environment.

    I did have a few LTR’s with shore girls where she / they failed to enter my frame, e.g. the sailing world replete with yacht clubs and all of that. To me the choice was easy, buh bye honey, it’s been fun, perhaps when the water freezes we can spend some time together again. When wife came along she was actually eager to enter my frame in that regard. Sailing luckily is a very multi dimensional sport and its a life long activity from toddlers to geriatrics can find a way to meaningfully participate, and also well beyond the race course with things like cruising. So wife wanted to enter my frame. She liked the lifestyle, she liked the venues it took me to, she liked that by and large I was usually a big part of various winning teams.

    Sometimes I would have her along on my team, if it didn’t compromise our performance on the course. At other times I encouraged her to join other teams suited to her skill level and team make up. She managed to carve out her own identity in that world, always known as Agent P’s wife or girlfriend, but she could stand on her own merits in the right circumstance.

    Either way, when she entered my life, my frame etc, the sport, the life was who I was almost completely and she liked it. From day one I would pack up and take off for days or weeks to fly off and sail in events around the world on teams full of men to compete for a pickle dish. As our family evolved and developed that never really stopped. Having kids slowed it down somewhat but because I hang in a crowd of guys who does the same as me, maintains an unassailable position that we must sail, we have solidarity. We make sure it works out for the wives whether they sail or not. They enjoy coming along for the odd excursion to warm tropical places in the dead of winter. They can live with their husbands coming off the water sweaty and worn out, ready to hurl back a bunch of rum and cokes and then fall asleep face down in their dinner only to get up at dawn and do it again. They still get to sit on the beach or enjoy an exotic locale while we go do battle on the water.

    Much later in my life than I expected I wound up ascending the ladder in the sport to the top rungs. Boy, did hypergamy ever kick in then. Went to being a pro athlete all of a sudden and getting pro athlete wages, perks and all of that. Boy o boy did she ever like that level of validation by association. Made her the AGAG. As I was not yet wise in the ways of RP at that point I could only marvel at the change in her levels of attention to me. I was unwittingly AF a-la-max. Become a pro athlete in mid life and all of a sudden waking up to a BJ is a normal thing, not a wet dream you were having before you opened your eyes in the AM.

    Anyhow, she got to be in the immediate vicinity for some of my peak experiences in life cheering me on. The lead up to it bugged her and she never had the vision of what was going on but she sure as shit liked what the outcome of my peak experiences happened to be for her, so it was easy to keep her onboard, pardon the pun.

    These days my calendar is less filled with such adventures and I have turned our collective focus to a balance of family time on boats, either cruising or casual racing and then for myself I keep a few big events a year that I go and do. More often than not it means getting my passport and a plane ticket alone to do the event. I carve out the time and the dollars and go do 100% man time on a boat here and there. We both know there will be a balance to the time and resources spent and she knows that if she were to question it, that I would not come back from one of those events.

    By dumb luck and pure passion (That was my mission, sailing, racing for as long as I could remember) I managed to maintain my own frame even when I was 100% BP. The come down after being a pro also put into very sharp relief the whole AF/BB thing as well. It’s part of what made me find the RP in the first place. shake my head at it all.

    At this point I am so glad I have had the experiences I have had in oceans and lakes around the world. It’s nice that I’ve been able to share some of those with my wife, even if she was not on the boat in the moment because at least she understands how it defines my life. I’m also glad that it all happened to be in a sport, and past time, whatever you want to call it, that can lend itself to being shared with her and the kids. As an added bonus, the beauty of it is also that when we’re on the boat together in 99% of all situations, I am the AMOG without question. Now I understand how that works in RP world, I use it to my total benefit mostly through amused mastery.

    Dumb luck FTW!

  48. The following song lyrics by Chris Rae flipped the switch in me and turned the red light on to conscious red pill awareness. Pay close attention to the last stanza, it is absolutely true. Great song, enjoy.

    “Gone Fishing”

    I’m going fishing
    I got me a line
    Nothin’ I do’s gonna’ make the difference
    So I’m taking the time

    And you ain’t never gonna’ be happy
    Anyhow, anyway
    So I’m going fishing
    And I’m going today

    I’m going fishing
    Sounds crasy I know
    I know nothing about fishing
    But just watch me go

    And when my time has come
    I will look back and see
    Peace on the shoreline
    That could have been me

    You can waste whole lifetime
    Trying to be
    What you think is expected of you
    But you’ll never be free

    May as well go fishing

  49. “I laid there for a long time just staring and thinking about life and living and God and the universe.”

    I count myself lucky to have had many moments like that on the water. In particular when you are doing an offshore race for a few days. You’re in the middle of the ocean hundreds of miles from the nearest land and civilization and you are focused enough on the activity that it is utterly meditative without actually requiring conscious thought. You look up and see stars like you’ll never see on the shore and are able to open yourself the cosmos. It’s spiritual for me and lots of guys I know, you feel connected to everything and at the same time you can feel like absolute nothingness, you pale in comparison to the enormity of the universe above your head. I don’t do God per se, but I have to say that those moments are spiritual. The peace and calm that are set in stark contrast to the ocean that more often than not is trying to kill you and your buddies. It’s a heady mixture. They are indeed perfect moments, quiet and personal, deeply introspective and devoid of the everyday noise of life.

  50. @ScribblerG October 21st, 2015 at 8:53 am

    Times have changed. It would be tough for even an Alpha father to take his wife and children on an extended trip these days. It was easier in the old days before feminism took over.

    Just last night I was asked by a close friend–who notified me that his father just passed away– to send him a copy of the eulogy I wrote for my father this past February.

    Here was a brief excerpt.

    Raising 4 boys was difficult. But Dad had the courage to provide plenty of adventure in the 1970’s.

    I saw Dad’s ability to keep a cool head in the face of a difficult complicated plan when in 1971 Dad packed 4 boys from ages 6 to 12 and his reluctant wife who was skeptical of the impending trip in a 1967 Chevy Impala and traveled the western United States.

    For a whole month. 5000 miles.

    Camping.

    His TripTik travel planner took us to the Grand Canyon, Disneyland, Orange County, San Francisco’s Golden Gate Bridge, The Redwood Forest, Yosemite, Salt Lake City, the Grand Tetons, The Rockies, Denver and the Great Plains, Mount Rushmore and of course the Corn Palace in Mitchell, South Dakota. (couldn’t miss that). We saw all the major western landmarks all in one big epic journey.

    Even after 3 flat tires, winter camping conditions unprepared for in the mountains of Yellowstone and the lack of laundry service my father never lost his patience or his resolve to complete the journey.

    His many other travel adventures in the 70’s, when we were adolescents, demonstrated, to me, his Courage to explore and made our lives richer from then on. With him we visited New England, camped and fished in remote northern Canada, the Great Lakes, and Smoky Mountains. Washington D.C. Pretty much explored the whole country.

    That epic USA type “visit the national parks trip” was pulled off by my father in a competent and grand fashion. The only reason I couldn’t have pulled off this kind of trip off 25 years later was that my wife wouldn’t have allowed the masculine flow of things. Certainly not because of my lack of competence, but because of her insistence of operating in her Frame.

    And that is a sad commentary on how the Feminine Imperative and Feminine Social Conventions have pursued and gotten what never should have been pursued. The dog caught the bus. And now what is it going to do?

  51. I know a couple. When they go fishing, she has to bait the hook and clean the fish because he thinks it’s gross. I simply don’t understand how the world works any more.

  52. I want to discuss one thing this blog site has not addressed, unless I’ve missed it, and I haven’t read this entire post yet so maybe I’m jumping the gun) but here goes.

    Letting a woman into certain parts of your frame can produce some extremely disappointing consequences.

    My disappointments with women rarely resulted from me trying to fit into their world or worrying about my acceptability concerning burden of performance.

    Most of my disappointments and frustration has been directly the result of bringing a woman into my world and expecting her to relate to the world and life much as I do.

    For whatever reason my expectations have never been met. This may be because women are spoiled rotten, sopilistic, pampered, babied, self entitled, irrational, and shallow or it may be that they simply are incapable of enjoying the realities of life, nature, and the wonders of the universe in the same context as I do. Maybe I’ve picked wrong women. However, they all seem to relate to the universe primarily from a shallow distorted synthesized plastic Walt Disney perspective. Maybe this is the best they can do or maybe this is what they prefer. I do not know, I am not a woman.

    I have always wanted a relationship with a woman who sincerely enjoys life in the way I do so I can share that enjoyment with a female companion. Years ago, I resigned myself to the apparent fact that this will never happen. Maybe this is because we live in a time and place of extreme luxury, surplus, and relative guaranteed security. Such conditions guarantee materialistic self indulgence and the resulting narcissism because greed by its own definition is insatiable.

    However, I have concluded it is impossible to simply “share the moment”, share life devoid of caveat with a woman beyond just a fleeting romantic sexual encounter. Yet such encounters almost always get fucked by some form of female bribery or blackmail. It all remains a game as she exists to be the queen of it.

  53. “I have always wanted a relationship with a woman who sincerely enjoys life in the way I do so I can share that enjoyment with a female companion. Years ago, I resigned myself to the apparent fact that this will never happen.”

    You need a new woman.

  54. “Most of my disappointments and frustration has been directly the result of bringing a woman into my world and expecting her to relate to the world and life much as I do.”

    Why did you do that?

  55. Every learning process is a generalization. We learn through pattern recognition, and those who recognize the patterns learn faster. It is how it works.

    In fact we are connecting dots every time we use the language. Every word, every concept we communicate or talk about is a general abstract idea which is only real partially.

    As a result, how are we able to understand what, for example, fishing is, without acknowledging of all different imagery that fishing inspire in every one of us and our cultures? It is the common root of the concept which put us in the same place and able to understand each other. Generalizing

    When talking about women is essentially the same. We know there are differences, but it’s from the similarities that we can learn about.

  56. “My LTR really wants to come duck hunting with me. She’s in for a cold, rude awakening lol”

    DON’T DO IT.

    I tried that ONCE.

    IT TOTALY FFFFUUUUUCCKKED UP THE HUNT.

    And I was pissed for weeks. Trust me, it is not worth it. She will NEVER be as impressed as you are with all the wonderful things about it. If she were even inclined, she would have already tried it on her own and she would be inviting you to go. Good luck finding a woman like that, they don’t exist unless they are bull dike and then those are only doing it because it fits the theatrics they are performing.

  57. @Emily,
    The ” my daddy ” explains a LOT about you , when are you planning on advocating for women ONLY fishing channel (that’s of course, after closing down all men’s fishing channel?.

    It is all about equality bullshits, women want to destroy every single male sport/hobby, first, they stick their noses in a man’s interests , then they lobby to participate, when they participate and find out , it is “boring”, they move on to start whining about the next thing to prove, God knows what.
    Just like little girls.

  58. “My daddy took me fishing all the time as a teen.
    So shut up. Just please, shut, the, f*ck, up.”

    Yaaa!, yaaaa!, yaaaa!, yaaaa!, yaaaa!

    Your daddy took you fishing?

    Oooohhhh how wonderful. He must be a wonderful daddy. Ooohhh what a sweet daddy.

    Bitch. Did you ever go fishing on your own without your daddy?

    Because YOU wanted to go fishing?

    Because YOU enjoy it for what it is and nothing else?

    WITHOUT ANY BULLSHIT?

  59. “Man + nature + woman (with or without dog) = misery”

    This is probably more of a result of where I live, but there’s quite a few nature loving women around. At least if you make it somewhat easy on them.

    Of course I would never take a woman hunting, fishing, on a multi-day hike, technical climb, winter camping trip or any other activity where you are pushing yourself. Learned that lesson as a kid. lol.

  60. I’m having a hard time with this post, and not converting it to a blue pill thinking in my mind.

    My thoughts:

    I wonder if a woman wanting to join in “her man’s” activities can actually be a test though? A test of his frame, and keeping a separate life outside of her’s? Like some sort of man slut that just opens is life up to her at her request? Maybe that’s why when they do join in those activities, they get bitchy? Would she have been happier if he said no?

    Where is the line between her genuine interest and him losing frame to her insistence?

    Her having genuine interest in his activities, and that interest is based solely on the fact that she has high interest in him, seems like a blue pill “soul mate” type of thinking? “Hey! She’s really into me and my interests, she really likes me!” ????

    I wonder if the optimal position is that she has her interests, he has his interests, and they have joint interests that they come together for? I have @LeeLee in mind here when I say this. “I like visiting his world.
    -Visiting- being the keyword.”

    Seems she knows enough to support and encourage those interests of his, and occasionally genuinely enjoy being included, but not to cross the line into, I don’t know, negotiating? Maybe “reconciling” her high interest in her man versus low interest in his hobbies is a better way to say that?

    Which means that the trope of “be friends” with your LTR is bullshit, no? Familiarity really does breed contempt.

    Seems we try so hard as men (I have anyway) to make women fit a role she is not built for.

    Does this help explain why relationships go to shit after moving in together?

    While dating, you have separate lives and come together to provide each other with the benefits that only the other gender can provide, right? That changes after shacking up. (for other reasons too, like less dread on her part)

    Is the point of this post is that I am asking women to fill a role that should be filled by other men, myself, and dogs? (I don’t mean that sarcastically, some of my peak memories include a dog)

    Why am I trying to blue pill this into, “If she’s into me she will want to be my buddy!”???

  61. NBTM,
    Sadly I suspect you simply have to lower your expectation.
    I can say for my part, I have been better able to have my wife appreciate things, material or otherwise, after enduring some hardship together, serious scary hardship like nearly losing house and such.
    As I learned along time ago and as I related to her in some of our darker hours. “Everyone in the world feels like their worst moment in life is the worst moment ever in the history of mankind.” Even a scintilla of rational thought would tell us that this is not true, but it doesn’t change the negative peak / valley / pit of hell experience for any one individual and how they experience it. Perhaps that is innately solipsistic for all humans. You have a terrible moment in your life and you are laid low, you know it’s your lowest moment ever and you feel terrible.

    However, if you manage to make it through that worst moment, with even the slightest bit of rational thought you can look back and be thankful that you made it. More so, you can take a new look at those about you who perhaps have to endure such troubles or indignities every day of their lives. Suddenly you can perhaps appreciate their lot in life more, suddenly you can see that your worst day ever might look like the best day ever for some poor punter who lives in Afghanistan or some other shit hole somewhere. In that I found humility and I was able to share some of that with my wife. to her credit she actually got some of it. It calmed her down, specifically I am sure it calmed her innate hypergamy as the situation had stoked the fires of her nagging doubt about my capacity as a BB guy.

    I find now, when things are going better than our darkest days, be it finances, or relationships and so on, that it is still useful to bring up reminders of more difficult times we have endured in the past and how we are lucky that we are where we are now and should be thankful for that. It’s an explicit reframing of our situation in positive terms even when in relative terms we might not look so rosy. “No we cannot afford to go to Mexico, yes that is sad, but it’s better than being bankrupt, trust me on this”.

    It’s no accident that guys like Glenn become so successful, coming from backgrounds of hardship and thin living as a youth. I have no doubt they have come to appreciate very much everything they have worked so hard to achieve and how much better it is than living in say abject poverty or even relative poverty.

    If princess came from a background of privilege, no, she’ll never really appreciate what it takes to really make it all work in the big picture because she has never truly endured hardship. My wife is a princess, she has known her whole life from day one that no matter how she fucks up, that her parents will always be there as the ultimate safety net, so in reality she cannot really fail short of getting herself killed somehow.
    In some ways I was lucky because my dad went bankrupt when I was in college. It sucked for the family and it was humiliating for him but he mushed through and came back up and succeeded, again, when he had stumbled.

    I was taken down more than a few notches in my life when that happened and it certainly taught me a whole bunch of humility and appreciation for the value of a dollar and for how hard my dad has always worked for everything we had as a family, inclusive of my ability to enjoy those lovely peak experiences. His hard work facilitated those. The whole thing falling apart sharpened my focus at a key formative part of my life. Princess on the other hand has never experienced the shock of coming home from college for example to never see your childhood home again. So she simply has no idea what that relative “low” feels like in life. She has no scale to register against the range of my experiences. Thus, she can never appreciate my experiences in our life together as I do.

    If I were to start again, to choose a new life mate and so on, I would very honestly shop for a young woman who came from a life of relative hardship, who was not privileged as it would at least have her being able to appreciate better the distance travelled from scarcity to abundance. It’s no guarantee but the odds would be better that she could appreciate even a smidgen of the performance that a man must endure to get somewhere in this world.

  62. @Rollo Tomassi

    …the first woman to comment…

    *second* woman to comment.

    @keyser Soze

    Beautifully appropriate video. Two minutes of selfie taking at a ballgame says everything you need to know about why you “Never Take a Woman Fishing.”

    @ITTO

    Wow, I’ve not read something so blatantly self-contradictory on the MSM in a while. Check this out:

    …What is a man?

    Sighs of relief and phrases such as “leader,” “protector,” “caretaker,” “responsible,” “head of the house” fell from their mouths. Each session, I told them that they had just described my single mother and most women I’ve encountered in my life. These young men would grow quiet.

    And he follows that with…

    …I grew up as most heterosexual boys did: I played every sport possible. I learned early on the rite-of-passage of seeing girls as sexual objects, as playthings, as anything except my equal. I fought because boys were taught to fight, be rough, antagonistic, to never show weakness, not even to cry, at least not in public. I digested every kind of pop cultural icon one could name, on television, in movies, in books, in my beloved hip-hop culture, who represented the mighty male figure that armies of us were instructed we must become.

    This behavior led to catastrophic results for me. I had no clue how to express a balance of emotions for many years: It was either thunderous silence or raw explosions of rage. I did not know how to give love to myself or women and girls, and by the time I got to college, I merely did what other young males on my campus did: I had sex as casually as I slipped on my jeans and sneakers, and often did not give much thought to the woman on the receiving end. And I eventually pushed a girlfriend, post-college, into a bathroom door as we were arguing, the culmination of years of backward and very warped definitions of manhood imprisoned in pain and trauma.

    So, yeah, Kevin Powell, it actually sounds like your single mother fucked you up and instead of recognizing that you needed therapy to get over it, you lie and tell yourself and the whole world that your single mother was just as good as a man in that role…

    The blue pill is strong in this one.

  63. “Is the point of this post is that I am asking women to fill a role that should be filled by other men, myself, and dogs?”

    Yes.

    “Why am I trying to blue pill this into, “If she’s into me she will want to be my buddy!”???”

    Blue pills.

  64. Caveclown

    “If she’s into me she will want to be my buddy!”???

    Yes. It is that simple.

    When moving into together, she is better able to steal a man’s frame.

    I wonder if a woman wanting to join in “her man’s” activities can actually be a test though? A test of his frame, and keeping a separate life outside of her’s? Like some sort of man slut that just opens is life up to her at her request? Maybe that’s why when they do join in those activities, they get bitchy? Would she have been happier if he said no?

    Yes to all.

    Where is the line between her genuine interest and him losing frame to her insistence?

    The line is at the Pareto Principle. The line is at the Alpha/Beta intersection.
    This is a not an endorsement of all alpha all the time or alpha asshole, it merely means a man keeping dominance and congruent alpha frame is where the line is.

  65. “Most of my disappointments and frustration has been directly the result of bringing a woman into my world and expecting her to relate to the world and life much as I do.”

    Not to pick a fight with you NBTM, but this is exactly what my thoughts above are trying to communicate.

    Is this not a blue pill way of thinking?

    Shouldn’t we be insisting our women take a complementary role, not a similar role?

    Not this frame:

    “This is my world, this is what I like, and you will like it too”

    THIS frame:

    “This is my world, this is what I like, I will show you parts of my world, but ultimately you are a separate addition to my world”

    Or am I full of shit?

  66. Women only love 2 things from men. Awesome sex and awesome attention.

    Everything else is just filler.

    Once you understand that everything they do in relation to men starts to make sense.

  67. “Shouldn’t we be insisting our women take a complementary role, not a similar role?”

    You catch, kill and gut the rabbit, she skins, cooks the carcass and makes a hat out of the hide.

    If you both do the same task, you’ll both be living on raw rabbit while shivering in the cold.

  68. Congruent with the foregoing:

    Here’s the yin and yang.

    The line “Isn’t it time you grew up and got over this” is more than a Beta Tell. It’s a brushback pitch. Shit test? More like boulder test. Danger, Will Robinson! There’s all the info you need she will resist and resent you enjoying your pursuit, forget about trying to join in even a little bit.

    I actually did hear this in an earlier LTR, from my then-pixie dream girl (not manic tho). Thankfully that ended, would have been an awful BP starter marriage, yucko.

    If you give in and cede control? BIG DLV. Years later when you wistfully recall those times, then the shit test will be why you listened to her in the first place and gave it up what no backbone?

    Compare and contrast in my marriage (now an LLTR I guess). We are both musicians. I was smart enough to surmise this could work for me: if I let her do her thing she wouldn’t bitch when I did mine. Luckily, that paid off big. We’d still do our separate things, the surprise was she actively supported mine, even searching out and buying me better gear all on her own.

    If you can make something like this happen, you’re in good shape.

  69. @NBTM:

    For whatever reason my expectations have never been met. This may be because women are spoiled rotten, sopilistic, pampered, babied, self entitled, irrational, and shallow or it may be that they simply are incapable of enjoying the realities of life, nature, and the wonders of the universe in the same context as I do.

    I’m inclined to think it’s the latter actually. As I said, women must have greater truths presented to them by men; few of them have the curiosity for it, much less the attention to it.

  70. @NBTM:

    I have always wanted a relationship with a woman who sincerely enjoys life in the way I do so I can share that enjoyment with a female companion. Years ago, I resigned myself to the apparent fact that this will never happen.

    The reason this frustrates men is rooted in the same expectation that men and women should experience love from a universally mutual concept. We don’t.

    Most women are what I call ‘Temporal Provincials’ – most women have absolutely no fascination with what happened before their experience, and fewer care much about any kind of legacy they might leave. They live temporally in the moment and only respond to what immediately concerns them or threatens the security they think should be possible.

    When women watch the Three Musketeers they swoon over the feelings they get from the story and the interplay between the characters. They couldn’t care less what era the story takes place in.

  71. Emily: “You men shut. the. fuck. up about our bodies. We can kill our babies if we want to!”
    Man: “Don’t take women fishing!”
    Emily: “I am so offended. Just shut. the. fuck. up!”

    This is Rollo’s boat. Stop ramming it with your inflated dingy.

  72. @CaveClown:
    https://therationalmale.com/2011/12/15/compatibility/

    Common Interests

    When I was dating my wife we shared one common interest – fucking like rabbits whenever and wherever. There’s are very few things my wife and I do together as a couple as far as common interests go. We don’t share hobbies, we do bodybuilding, but separately, she taught me to ski when we were first married, but after our daughter was born we ended that.

    I think in general people place far too much importance on “common interests” as if it’s some kind of glue that should hold a relationship together. I think shared beliefs and appreciation for individual identities is much more vital for a strong relationship than whether or not you both enjoy tennis. It’s our differences in personality and how the traits of our individual characters complement each other that makes a couple grow. I have a tendency to intellectualize things; my wife’s ‘common sense’ simple wisdom helps temper this in me. My wife is generally very impatient, and I have the patience of Job (particularly with our daughter) – this complements her deficit. My wife is a ‘worst case scenario’ worrier, I tend to be more pragmatic and optimistic and this balances another aspect of our relationship. I have a tendency to be more artistic and passionate and this fills a need she has, but is unable to articulate. It’s differences in identity that compement the deficits of the other and a vibrant appreciation of them that account for strong couples.

    I would advise guys to re-think this compatibility myth. Every time I see these 40 point personality tests that “ensure compatibility” on eHarmony I want to puke. They’re all based on shared commonalities and this has a potential to lead to disaster. Men need to be able to excel in certain areas or activities in their lives that serve as a renewable source of social proof for the women they pair-bond with. Gender equalists will of course take offense to this in assuming it’s adversarial – as is always their tact – presuming that a woman reduce herself to ‘allow’ her man to win at something. The reality is that women want a Man who’s good at something because it serves to gratify women’s innate narcissism as a source of associative pride for her. Women want a Man other men want to be, and other women want to fuck, and in the context of an LTR or marriage, a guy with an exceptional, recognized talent or passionate dedication to something, however compartmentalized it is, can be all the reminder she needs to help validate her decision to commit to that Man.

    As nice as it is to have a mate that shares your interests, a relationship based on how alike the couple is only leads to homogenization and stagnation.

  73. @ CaveClown – “Not to pick a fight with you NBTM, but this is exactly what my thoughts above are trying to communicate.

    Is this not a blue pill way of thinking?”

    I can see why you or anyone would suspect that. However it’s not the case as women usually ask to go…”Take me with you!”….”Oh, I love fishing, can I come too?….”That’s so cool !! you really boar hunt with a bow!!?? I wanna go!!….

    …..only to discover they don’t really like anything about it…Its just a scam to weasel into places they have no business being in because they have no real desire to be there…..

    @ Rollo – “I’m inclined to think it’s the latter actually. As I said, women must have greater truths presented to them by men; few of them have the curiosity for it, much less the attention to it.”

    I think your inclination is accurate. Your experience on the snowmobile is like many I’ve had (although I don’t own a snowmobile). I’ve had numerous “peak experiences” while hunting, fishing, riding my bike through the Texas hill country, etc.

    These experiences occur unique to each of us. We cannot fully capture them with pictures and transfer them to others. We can only barely capture some semblance of then. They cannot be commoditized. We can indicate their availability to another, but we cannot make the other receive them. They can be concurrently enjoyed but the actual experiences are available only to those individuals who are open.

    I do not think women have the capacity to experience life in this context to the same magnitude that men do. This is perhaps why men and women behave differently as they seek different fulfillment. Perhaps this is because men are more idealistic and manufacture “fantasy” or perhaps men are more realistic and possess better “receptors” of and a stronger affinity for the existential universe. Mans creative inventiveness suggests a manifestation of the latter.

  74. From Generalizations:

    Generalizations

    generalization

    n 1: the process of formulating general concepts by abstracting common properties of instances [syn: abstraction, generalisation] 2: reasoning from detailed facts to general principles [syn: generalisation, induction, inductive reasoning] 3: an idea having general application; “he spoke in broad generalities” [syn: generalisation, generality] 4: (psychology) transfer of a response learned to one stimulus to a similar stimulus [syn: generalisation, stimulus generalization, stimulus generalisation]

    Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University

    In the same vein as NAWALT® one of the most common fallbacks of women and feminized men is the presumption of generalization. Generalization gets a bum rap. The term really ougt to be used in the way it was actually intended – drawing hypothesis and conclusions from a greater, general whole of observed behavior. Pay close attention to #2 in the above definition,

    “reasoning from detailed facts to general principles [syn: generalisation, induction, inductive reasoning].”

    I am sorry if this process offends women, but I’m interested in the general rule, since it, – and not the exceptions to it – help to better predict an outcome.

    Like it or not generalizations are useful and we use them all the time to see the forest for the trees. It’s not isolated abnormalities in a system that we use to describe the circumstances of that system, it’s the whole. We study majorities to assess overall condition, not isolations. That’s the scientific definition of generalities, but when they refer to things that are close to us we tend to put ourselves into the generalization and cop the “not-in-my-case” menality. We’d like to think that our experiences are unique and special (and they are, to us), but in the generality we’re simply statistics. So the word ‘Generalize’ gets a negative connotation and the person using it is vilified, because it’s an afront to our “special” conditions.

    The concept of generalization is the antithesis to women’s innate solipsistic, individualist perspective. That’s not to argue that women cannot be analytical or scientific in various areas, but it is to say that in regards to personal and larger social contexts, thinking in generalities is not their native cognitive process. So when the social implications of a particular dynamic (in this case male suicide) become amplified to life-or-death propositions so too does the urgency for wholesale absolution of the gender become amplified. Collective generalities of this lethal nature become associative personal affronts; in fact so much so that women’s ego-investment in a feminine-primary social framework, and their personal association with it, link themselves personally to the responsibility of these generalized men’s suicides.

  75. ” As nice as it is to have a mate that shares your interests, a relationship based on how alike the couple is only leads to homogenization and stagnation.”

    I have heard it put that if you and your wife are too alike, one of you is redundant.

    “I do not think women have the capacity to experience life in this context to the same magnitude that men do.”

    Until very recently the world of men has always been larger than that of women. A woman’s world is around the home, a man’s world is – the world.

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