Never Take a Woman Fishing

never_fishing

(h/t to Zelscorpion for the image and ref for today’s post)

Hi Rollo,
On rereading Truth to Power a very inspirational post, I wanted to hear your thoughts on men with families such as my self choosing to travel on vacation alone.

In your videos above you touched on masculine qualities men being in the driver seat around decision making. I have a wife you as with many women is cultured to try assume headship of the household with decision making even vacations etc.

She doesn’t want to travel abroad as we have a 7 month old son where as I feel there is no reason why she should worry about doing so. Anyway the crux of the issue is I am only 28 years old and having sacrificed my independence early (at 25) have a desire to travel and I don’t care about rocking the boat to make that happen.

I would love to hear some advice about the benefits of and good ways of grabbing hold again of control of our own circumstances and decisions!

Never take a woman fishing.

That’s a little idiom I learned way before I was Red Pill aware from the guy who was the best man at my wedding, and my long time fishing buddy. I wouldn’t call him a philosopher, but he was a keen observer of women’s behavior and became salt-of-the-earth wise by default:

“When you take a woman fishing you’re trying to include them in something they really don’t want to be doing, but you like it a lot. So you think ‘I like fishing and I want to include her in something we can do together’, but when you do she complains about EVERYTHING. ‘It’s dirty, I’m cold, I’m hot, I didn’t bring a water bottle, where’s the sunscreen?, there’s too many bugs, why are there so many bugs?, why do we have to hike so far to fish? can’t we just find a spot by the dam? where’s the bathroom?, etc. etc.”

“So what do you do? You force yourself to make her comfortable the whole damn time. You don’t hike, you don’t scout for the sweet spots on the river or, God forbid, you try to get her in a kayak. You end up going out after breakfast and the light’s all wrong. You try to keep them clean and close to the ‘potty’, you bait their hook ’cause it’s filthy, you untangle their reel snarls,…what you don’t do is fish. Your whole trip becomes about making her ‘like’ fishing with you and not about actually fishing and doing all the things we do when we fish together or on our own. I mean, you want ’em to like it, but you’ll never teach them to like it because you’re too busy making everything right for ’em.”

“Unless they were brought up right and they dig fishing ’cause their Dad taught ’em to like it, never try to bring a woman fishing. They gotta come to liking it on their own, they gotta want to do it on their own. I mean, look at Dodge (our dog) he don’t care if it’s cold or 4am, he’s happy to be on the trail going wherever the fuck we’re headed.”

Back in May Zelscorpion tweeted a few of the pictures from this series and made an interesting point:

https://twitter.com/Zelcorpion/status/599493741573971969

I had to admit, he’s got a point and it reminded me of the sage words of my Best Man. I think one of the tragedies of men’s Blue Pill conditioning is the presumption that they must find a way, sometimes forcibly, to become more compatible with a woman. I wrote about the paradox of compatibility a while back:

It’s very entertaining for me to hear guys reason as to why they got into yoga, or my all time favorite, salsa dancing as some means of meeting girls. I mean really, if that’s the goal you choose to devote the precious few hours of your leisure time to then I suppose a guy ought to take up scrap-booking or zumba.

If you’re picking up a hobby in order to meet women all you’re doing is attempting to Identify with what you expect your idealized woman to appreciate. If you get into something for this reason it’s not a hobby, it’s a Buffer.

Successful men don’t chase success – success chases them. Women are going to expect you to have your own uncontrived, interests, passions and hobbies established before meeting them.

When I first began counseling men in my SoSuave days many times I’d read guys telling me, “Well if she’s not into the same things I am she’s just not the ‘right’ girl for me”, as if common interests were some criteria that would trump his sexual interests in a girl. Blue Pill idealism convinces men that the “right girl” will necessarily love doing the same things as himself, but the all too common Red Pill truth is that men will have their peak experiences in life alone or in the company of other men who share the passions and interests their wives simply have no interest in.

Peak Experience

I don’t subscribe to Maslow’s theories in whole, but I do think his Peak Experience idea has merit. There will be times and achievements in your life that will stand out as significantly memorable. It’s easy to point to the experiences that should be the most significant; a marriage, the birth of a child, a religious experience, a first kiss, a school graduation, etc., you get the idea – experiences that should be the standard fare in a romanticized, idealistic sense.

We tend to overblow these experiences because we think they should be something to etch in our consciousness; and if we don’t, well, then there must be something wrong with us for not appreciating their popular significance. Tragically it’s our negative experiences that have the most lasting effect on us; evolution has made pain something memorable so as to help us avoid potentially life-ending future experiences. But the events that should evoke lasting good memories, the ones we are taught should be significant, are often the ones we ruin with unrealistic expectations, or we build up only to have them not quite live up to the fantasy we make of them.

The Peak Experiences I’m talking about here aren’t planned, or are just loosely planned by necessity. Some of the most memorable events you’ll ever experience wont be ones that you had a forethought about. These are often the experiences we hope to recreate long after they occur, but prove impossible to really recapture. Much of what makes up our personal preferences in life come from these spontaneous Peak Experiences. Remember the first girl you got with? Remember that time when things aligned just perfectly for you to hit that hole in one?

One of the reasons I have such a passion for snowmobiles was due to a day I blew off work so I could go out for the entire day on a beautiful Lake Tahoe morning. I went on my own which is something I rarely did. It was a Wednesday so there was nobody on the trails. The snow was only a day old and I took my sled to the top of a place called High Meadows, but even this pristine place wasn’t high enough. I took off in the back country and got to the top of a peak that was as high as I dared to go alone. Once I got there I had a view of the lake that I imagine few people had experienced. Then I fell back on the seat of my sled and stared at a sky that was so blue I never thought of it in the same way again. I laid there for a long time just staring and thinking about life and living and God and the universe.

On my way down the hill I thought how cool it would be to bring Mrs. Tomassi up there so she could appreciate it too. I mean, why wouldn’t I want to share such an incredible Peak Experience with the woman I love; the woman I want to share my life with? To this day Mrs. T has only been on my sled about 3 times. She’s very self-cautious and doesn’t like the smell and sound of the engine. That might seem trivial, but no matter how much I can try to relate that experience or try to recapture it no one but myself will ever have that unique event.

Experience & Frame

When I look at the guy with his dog in these camping shots I can now appreciate them much more because I know he’s experienced that same uniqueness. When you plan an event with a woman, when you make efforts to bring her into an appreciation of something you enjoy the experience of you must remember that you are, in essence, negotiating for her genuine desire to do so.

Now, before I’m run up the flagpole for suggesting otherwise, yes I know that many men and women do in fact find pleasure in commonly held interests. I see women on the river fishing in waders and at Trout Unlimited events all the time. My point isn’t the interest itself, but rather the desire to participate in it. A lot of guys hold the belief that including their wife, girlfriend or even a girl they’re spinning as a plate in something they think she should enjoy will have the effect of bringing them closer. The inherent problem with this is the presumption that including her in it will lead to some new shared experience that will bond them both in a genuine way.

The problem with preplanned ‘date nights’ is the same problem men experience with trying to pull a woman into his Frame by insisting she take up one of his hobbies or passions; it’s contrived and feels disingenuous to her. The point of the experience becomes about her being involved in it and not the actual doing of whatever it is you do together. The vibe becomes one of him making and controlling that experience so it becomes something pleasurable for her to participate in rather than really finding some inherent reward from it due to genuine interest.

Thus you get guys who (figuratively) take their women fishing and the event becomes more about introducing her to it than actually catching fish. Guys get so caught up in controlling unpleasant variables for her that the real experience of fishing is something entirely different. They want that woman to feel the same joy he does in doing something intrinsically rewarding to him, but the truth of it is she must come to it on her own.

Always Maintain Your Individualism

And this leads us back, once again, to establishing and maintaining a positive, dominant and individualistic Frame with a woman. She must want to enter your reality for it to be a genuine desire on her part – you cannot lead her into it, she must enter it of her own volition. Spontaneity is the key. Whether it’s an ‘insta-date’ from a PUA perspective, or an unexpected twist of plans in your marriage, that woman must want to participate in that event, in that moment of her own accord.

A good test of genuine interest with a woman is less about how open she is to trying “your things” and more about how insistent she is instigating her own participation in them. The trap most Betas fall into is converting “his things” into “our things” and he compromises those previously rewarding experiences into a sideshow he hopes will bond he and his woman together.

In Male Space I made this point:

When the influence of feminine-primacy is introduced into social settings made up mainly by men and male-interests, the dynamics and purpose of that group changes. The purpose becomes less about the endeavor itself and more about adherence to the feminine-inclusionary aspect of that endeavor. It starts to become less about being the best or most passionate at what they do, and more about being acceptable to the influence of the Feminine Imperative while attempting maintaining the former level of interest in the endeavor.

A similar dynamic plays out when men try to open the Male Space of whatever it is they find individually enjoyable to the women they hope will share in his enthusiasm. One thing I learned very early on in my marriage was the absolutely vital importance of maintaining my individual identity apart from my wife.

The biggest mistake I made when I was involved in LTRs prior to meeting my wife was allowing myself to get caught up in the equalist idea that since both men and women were functional equals we should necessarily base our compatibility estimates on how alike we were in interests. Consequently I progressively began convincing myself that I found their interests fascinating, but in doing so I slipped into their Frame. I was too scared of losing a woman and was too necessitous to experiment with doing what I should have – insisting on maintaining my individual interests and maintaining my own reality for a woman to enter.

I was fortunate in that Mrs. T expected me to control the Frame from the start of our relationship. I’ll admit, at the time it was something very unfamiliar to me to have a woman expect me to prioritize my interests above her own, but the purpose of this was establishing a Frame she wanted to enter into. Today I adamantly insist on having a life that is apart from her, but she can enter into if she has a real interest in it. This blog is just one extension of that dynamic.

If you are to maintain a dominant Frame with a woman you must necessarily set your interests apart from her own. You must still insist on your individualized identity and the experiences that set you apart from her in order to maintain a reality in which she continually wishes to genuinely be a part of.

Ted had a great comment from last week’s thread that speaks to this:

I don’t expect my wife to be like a man with male interests. I expect her to be a human with human interests. Something deeper than pop culture anyway.

I know a little bit about a whole lot of stuff. I’m willing to chat about any number of subjects other than tech and politics. It just has to he something better than what’s on TV and the weather. I keep hearing women can do anything a man can, so let’s see some intellectual debate!

More often than not truths must be brought to women by men. It’s uniquely refreshing when women have the critical insight to look for truths, but it’s refreshing because it’s rare – and it’s refreshing when they seek them from a man who’s Frame she’s chosen to be a part of. One of the best aspects of the principle of Amused Mastery is that, if you actually have the mastery that comes from individualized experience, it makes maintaining a positive, dominant and enjoyable Frame much easier with the same woman.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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[…] By Rollo Tomassi […]

SD
Guest
SD

While women are certainly frequent projectors , us males have our own faults in this area. This is one of them. It is often assumed because we guys derive pleasure from Activity X, women should too. Especially the one we designate as spouse or the LTR. I worked as a range officer back in my military days. A lot of average Joes would bring the wife /gf to the range , seemingly oblivious to the fact that their woman didn’t give a flying damn about any of it and was only humoring them. Men and women derive pleasure from a… Read more »

kobayashii1681
Guest

“She must want to enter your reality for it to be a genuine desire on her part – you cannot lead her into it, she must enter it of her own volition.”

Lock, stock, the fuckin’ lot!

Luxocrat
Guest
Luxocrat

Good Lord…where was this post when I was 22 years old? 😅😆😂 And now, at 47, women get angry I do NOT include them on my travels. I get the sense they want the ability to say “No.” upon being asked. Another one on target, Rollo. Thank you. ✌🎩

kobayashii1681
Guest

That picture….brilliant! You couldn’t have chosen a better one bruv!

kurt123456789
Guest

Rollo, **audiobook** of Rational Male book? Due out in October thought I heard.

redlight
Guest
redlight

I have a wife you as with

was that supposed to be “I have a wife who as with”

delete this after using or not

RS
Guest

Great post. I honestly think one of the main reasons my marriage (17 years) has been as successful as it has been is because my husband never assumed I’d want to participate in his hobbies. And lord knows he has no interest in mine…

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

Truth. I tried to ” include ” my first wife. Not satisfying. Big mistake actually. Decided to not include wife #2 in MY activities. I even downplayed the things that I really loved because I didn’t want to soft pressure her into ” doing my things with me “. Worked well. What did happen though? I love the outdoors, specifically Virginia, particularly the area my family hails from waaaaayyyyy out in the woods on the Carolina border. Took family there to visit my folks. My wife and daughters said I was ” different ” when I was down there. I… Read more »

CaveClown
Guest
CaveClown

Oh man, I’ve screwed this up.

So a woman that not only makes every effort to not include herself in my activities, but actually does her best to sabotage those activities, is probably not into me then, eh?

Or when every unexpected positive twist in the marriage occurs, and I stress the word positive, and it’s met with negativity and resistance, passive aggressive anger and attempts at manipulation and control. Or jealousy that I created positive change and she didn’t.

Never again.

benfromtexas
Guest
benfromtexas

Great post. I like to go hunting/fishing and I’ve found its best to let women know I do it, but NEVER invite them to it. They have to ask. Step into “my world” voluntarily. I’ve noticed over the years, if the woman doesn’t persistently insist in participation, then you shouldn’t bother.

Good post & so true on “male spaces” again. Unless the woman “feels” a need to go with it, then why bother pushing it? Men must have their own identity & space.

Fred Flange, Weeknd Dad
Guest
Fred Flange, Weeknd Dad

You know it’s trouble when you hear this regarding a hobby or pursuit:

“Isn’t it time you grew up and got over that?”

How many men have gotten onto the downward spiral by giving in at that point?

redlight
Guest
redlight

The mistake I made was a little different My wife and I had our own activities (I’m keeping this vague so has not to dox myself). At a certain point she decided she wanted to do one of my main activities, and put in the thousands of hours of prep to be able to do so. Some years later, she then developed a health issue, and had to stop, and asked me to stop since it was now “our activity”. I did, and took up a replacement activity (which is about 99.9999% male). A few months ago, I said enough,… Read more »

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

“…I have to find the non-work time for the activity, the replacement activity, my other projects and activities, and the most time consuming thing of all, reading/watching all of YaReally’s comments”

Lol.

Is This Thing On?
Guest
Is This Thing On?
Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

” One of the reasons I have such a passion for snowmobiles was due to a day I blew off work so I could go out for the entire day on a beautiful Lake Tahoe morning. I went on my own which is something I rarely did. It was a Wednesday so there was nobody on the trails. The snow was only a day old and I took my sled to the top of a place called High Meadows, but even this pristine place wasn’t high enough. I took off in the back country and got to the top of… Read more »

walawala
Guest
walawala

This is a great post. I used to invite girls to activities I take part in…now unless they’re already part of that community or are somehow accomplished…never again. They expect tons of attention, they cramp your style and because they’re relative outsiders, you’re baby-sitting. I took a 21 year old girl I was banging to a Latin dance party. I met her at one so figured it would be fine. We sat separately so she could mingle more. Big mistake. She became the target of some beta orbiter, she had no idea how to refuse his advances, she complained, she… Read more »

DR
Guest
DR

Long time reader. First time to comment. Thanks Rollo.

This is OT. Just wanted to bring to your attention one more manifestation of AF/BB.

“It would have been better if I had married before I met you, because then you could have given me a few months of fulfilling attentions which is all, apparently, that women need, & then I could have returned to the someone who, possibly, would have cared for me.”

From a letter to poet George Barker. He fathered 15 children from 4 different women (AF before the pill).
http://www.lettersofnote.com/2015/10/i-see-no-beauty-in-lopsided-true-love.html

ar10308
Guest

What a faggot.
Women as equals? Nonsense.

Emily
Guest
Emily

My daddy took me fishing all the time as a teen.
So shut up. Just please, shut, the, f*ck, up.

Agent X
Guest
Agent X

That Peak Experiences thing really hit home for me. I expected my first sexual experience, graduating college, proposing to my wife, or wedding day to be peak experiences because, on paper, shouldn’t they? They weren’t. All of my peak experiences were doing great things with other men. I’d never tell my wife this, but our wedding day and honeymoon (which were totally fine) pales in comparison to the two days I was in Alabama watching the massive heavy lift project I designed go off without a hitch. Seeing 200 tons of steel soar into the air because I figured out… Read more »

keyser Soze
Guest
keyser Soze

“Never take a woman fishing”,

Most of the time, I don’t want to take a woman to bed either. The crap you have to hear before and after, (I come).

Emily
Guest
Emily

You know Rollo, typical of nearly every other blog post of yours that I have read, you could have said everything you said without having to be, frankly, an asshole about it.

But of course, your audience enjoys broad mildly misogynistic statements like ‘never take a woman fishing.’

I did get the point of the post. And maybe if it wasn’t so full of generalizations I’d take it more seriously.

Sun Wukong
Guest
Sun Wukong

@Rollo

an asshole about it

Quit giving all the bitches tingles and leave the rest of us some birds, bro.

Sun Wukong
Guest
Sun Wukong

As for the post, this is pretty much the advice I give every single friend currently in an LTR. Most of them are in LTRs they shouldn’t be in and clutch their Blue Pills if I so much as mention the truth, but they’ll at least take the advice to no bring their chicks on shit they enjoy. Case in point: my wing chun sifu’s chick hears about the trip I took on the bike, has never ridden a motorcycle in her life, wants them to buy a couple and just head out on a trip like that. She shows… Read more »

Liz
Guest

Emily: From the quoted source, this is right at the beginning: “Unless they were brought up right and they dig fishing ’cause their Dad taught ’em to like it, never try to bring a woman fishing. They gotta come to liking it on their own, they gotta want to do it on their own.” “Fishing” in the context of the overall article is metaphorical anyway. FWIW, living in a fishing town I’ve seen this a lot. Guy brings a girl on the boat (often, our boat) and she pretends to like it, but then doesn’t and gets sick and they… Read more »

Liz
Guest

FWIW, my .01 cents to this portion: “She doesn’t want to travel abroad as we have a 7 month old son where as I feel there is no reason why she should worry about doing so. Anyway the crux of the issue is I am only 28 years old and having sacrificed my independence early (at 25) have a desire to travel and I don’t care about rocking the boat to make that happen.” I think I’m in a pretty good position to know since we were living in Europe at about the same point in our lives, with very… Read more »

Zelcorpion
Guest
Zelcorpion

I have personally a girlfriend, who loves to do out outdoor activities, camping and of course prefers to travel with me everywhere. But early on in the relationship I told her that I need to travel alone or with my male friends. I am a lone wolf kind of guy anyway and also the dynamic is utterly changed when even one woman joins the group. So I introduced her to the idea that we will have two kinds of travel and activities in our lives: things we do apart and things we do together. And so it is – I… Read more »

Emily
Guest
Emily

@Liz, I got his point, I just don’t like the generalizations and the way he gets his point across.

Oh, and reading the comments never fail to make me sick. So bye, def not returning here.

IAS
Guest
IAS

@ Rollo I certainly agree that maintaining your individualism very important. But apparently bringing a woman to action dates (even after being married) is a good idea, it provides opportunities for her to see your mastery and to position yourself to teach her (using the opportunity to touch her and so on). I think a corollary of your recent post is that in such a situation, be sure you are teaching her something she actually wants to learn. It could be hard to know if she is just faking interest to get into an LTR or marriage, there are several… Read more »

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[…] Never Take a Woman Fishing | […]

A.F.O.R.
Guest
A.F.O.R.

“My daddy took me fishing all the time as a teen.
So shut up. Just please, shut, the, f*ck, up.”

Bitch missed the entire point. Quelle surprise.

kfg
Guest
kfg

@Emily: “I just don’t like the generalizations and the way he gets his point across.”

So you just had to throw a hissy fit and suck the fun right out of it. Q.E.D. and toughen up, Buttercup.

“So bye, def not returning here.”

Prove it, or forever be known as a liar.

Is This Thing On?
Guest
Is This Thing On?

She’ll be back. She hasn’t made it clear enough how right she is yet. Cracks me up though. She is so emphatic that she gets the point, but she missed it entirely. I guess she thinks Rollo isn’t supposed to make generalizations at all. Hear that @Rollo. Next post, I want an individually tailored version of your post for everyone of your commenters. Enough of these generalizations! LOL

stuttie
Guest

@emily, no, you quite clearly didn’t get the point. Stop trying to rationalize that you do. “I just don’t like the generalizations and the way he gets his point across.” I sometimes wonder where the argument “you can’t generalize” comes from. Isn’t this the most idiotic idea in the world? And it escapes from people’s lips without even a thought of what they are doing or saying. Of course you can generalize. In fact, you must generalize. To fail to generalize is to demand that all things must only be regarded in terms of the lowest common denominator. The lowest… Read more »

kfg
Guest
kfg

“I sometimes wonder where the argument “you can’t generalize” comes from.”

She obviously didn’t major in a STEM field requiring some knowledge of statistics. Tool of the patriarchy, don’cha know.

“To fail to generalize is to demand that all things must only be regarded in terms of the lowest common denominator.”

Lowering things to the lowest common denominator was a goal of feminism 2.0. Feminism 4.0 seeks to lower things to the lowest possible denominator.

Is This Thing On?
Guest
Is This Thing On?

The will lower it until they get the divide by zero error they are looking for. 🙂

kfg
Guest
kfg

And BEYOND!

CaveClown
Guest
CaveClown

My dad didn’t want to be a “killer and an asshole” like his father, so he never took me hunting or fishing as a kid.

I was taught how to fish, as an adult, by a woman. And she made it a miserable experience.

So combining this post and the last; TAKE YOUR SONS FISHING.

(or whatever male only experience is good for you)

scribblerg
Guest
scribblerg

@Emily – Look up the word “idiom” – my guess is you don’t know what the word means. I know, all these words and complicated ideas are overwhelming for you as you are used to the world being served up to you by Blue Pill men who dumb shit down for you and don’t challenge you. This place is an exception to all that. idiom – a phrase or a fixed expression that has a figurative, or sometimes literal, meaning. An idiom’s figurative meaning is different from the literal meaning. It’s a metaphor of sorts and its only purpose is… Read more »

LeeLee
Guest

I enjoy being taught by my husband a lot, and it’s something that makes me feel very attracted to him, but it should definitely be an occasional thing. I like when he’s having some kind of emotional moment over football that I can’t fathom and he explains what’s happening to me. I can imagine that being taught to fish by him would be sexy, but ideally it would be a in a moment specially created for me to learn from him, not for me to be initiated into fishing for real. I like visiting his world. -Visiting- being the keyword.… Read more »

scribblerg
Guest
scribblerg

@Liz & Zelescorpion – Yeah, I have to agree with Liz here. While I think a long weekend away with your buddies is absolutely called for – and always is (back country skiing or playing poker in Vegas, whatever) – taking an infant on a long, international trip is a disaster in the making. As Liz notes, you will not have fun as it will be a huge pain in the ass to do so with a young baby and it will also be stressful as shit for your wife. I also think if you were to do so alone,… Read more »

scribblerg
Guest
scribblerg

@Is this thing on – That article made me so angry. This guy is literally calling for the ‘re-education of boys’ starting at a young age which will focus explicitly on equalism. This guy sounds like a fascist, truly and he doesn’t even know it. Re-education is always necessary to make the collectivist, Utopian fantasies of radicals come true. Another way of putting it? The only thing that stands in the way of Social Justice Utopia is human nature, and specifically male nature. Wow, just wow. It makes me want to join a militia and start the revolution now. I… Read more »

longgone
Guest
longgone

redlight,

“and the most time consuming thing of all, reading/watching all of YaReally’s comments.”

This is became such a problem that I gave up fishing.

SJF
Guest
SJF

I have a different take on that ScribblerG. I used to think women were stupid and incompetent. I used to think that my wife was incompetent when she lost her keys, credit card, and nowadays the cell phone. But I woke up one day a while ago to the fact that it was intentional. An entirely intentional mindset in going about their business. It was a statement that she didn’t give a fuck about three of the most important items in her life. (This is in contrast with a man being mindful to never misplace his keys, his wallet or… Read more »

Is This Thing On?
Guest
Is This Thing On?

@scribblerg

The first thing I noted in that article is that he is the product of a single mother. He sights that she was all the strong things historically attributed to men. I’d feel sorry for him if he weren’t doing so much damage himself. I really hope Rollo can take the time to pull the wings of that fly. Oh shit. Emily might take that last sentance literally. I’ll have to re-think it. 🙂

CaveClown
Guest
CaveClown

OT, but someone very close to me, who was going to break up with his girl, just found out he violated Tomassi Iron Rule #5.

“Dude, the pill is only 99% effective. I suppose it was meant to happen”

Oh yeah, it was meant to happen buddy.

That’s twice in 3 years I have seen that rule proven correct.

J1J2
Guest
J1J2

I used to get quite righteous and contemptuous about how my wife had female attitudes about everything. Then I realized it was necessarily true that my wife was a female, duh. And that values are (in most cases) arbitrary. These days it never even occurs to me to encourage my wife to come along on hiking/camping trips …

kfg
Guest
kfg

@SJF: Take it a half step further; she knows that when you have been “out with the boys” there will be a period of time after your return before you can be “returned to the fold,” which will make your coming home even more annoying to her than your going away was.

When you go away, you are not there to cater to her needs, but when you come back, you will be there, but resistant to catering to her needs.

fleezer
Guest
fleezer

“I laid there for a long time just staring and thinking about life and living and God and the universe.” this is a joke, right? right? a capital g? belief in/supplication to the middle eastern goat-fuckers’ magical sky monster is the bluest pill of them all. at least the pedestal betas worship something real. something about the fruit of the tree sustained by the poisoned well comes to mind. if your sons aren’t pointing out serious holes in the goat-fuckers made-up story by the age of eight you’ve failed them. clearly most people are not ready to be unplugged. or… Read more »

Liz
Guest

“As Liz notes, you will not have fun as it will be a huge pain in the ass to do so with a young baby and it will also be stressful as shit for your wife.” Thanks, scribblerg. Just thinking further, it’s all coming back to me. We really tried everything, even the stuff that one would think is somewhat “kid friendly” (example, the beaches of Sardinia). Maybe Austria and Germany, those were the most kid-friendly places we went. But even there it’s crying so you can’t go into Neuschwanstein castle or that horse and buggy trip because it will… Read more »

SJF
Guest
SJF

LeeLee brings up a good point. “I like visiting his world.” When a woman says that to herself, that is an Alpha Tell for the male. I was never blue pill in my “never take a woman fishing adventures”. But I was certainly beta in not converting my wife to say “I want to visit his world”. “It seems so exciting.” I was Mr. Hobby incarnate in my previous four decades. (golf, firearms, reloading, kayaking, mountain biking, hiking, nature photography, cigar connoisseur (able to discriminate tobacco leaf differences), flower and vegetable gardening, building computers from scratch, late in life hunting,… Read more »

lh
Guest
lh

We didn’t get that much female commenting in a while. Interesting how they feel triggered by that topic and title. Funny thing is how fishing is probably the male activity you should indeed never consider letting your women join because it’s like the total antithesis to what women like: You’ll sit outside in ugly dresses far from any society and you gotta keep quiet all the time while for most of it nothing at all happens. What should worry you though, Rollo, is how you didn’t get any protest or nothing to trigger the female readers in your parenting posts.… Read more »

kfg
Guest
kfg

Another aspect of travelling with a very small child; the child will grow up hearing about all the cool places he has been – but can’t remember.

Liz
Guest

Sorry, one more thing. The packing. I have Italian cousins and they went ahead in their cars on many of these trips and brought all the provisions. I can’t imagine trying to load all the stuff on a plane. Children require and inverse proportion of stuff per body weight. Babies require the most kit, toddlers next most…by the time they’re teens they are good with a cell phone.

-Liz out

agent p
Guest
agent p

I am so glad that my peak experiences have mostly come from my sport of choice, sailing. I have done it since I was a kid and raced since I was a kid. From single handed to being part of a much larger team in some projects. The sport has in many ways defined my life and what I am. I found lots of cute babes along the way in that environment to have fun with and even some LTR’s. Racer chasers are good for racers like me. Luckily due to lots of work and patience I managed to actually… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
Guest

The following song lyrics by Chris Rae flipped the switch in me and turned the red light on to conscious red pill awareness. Pay close attention to the last stanza, it is absolutely true. Great song, enjoy. “Gone Fishing” I’m going fishing I got me a line Nothin’ I do’s gonna’ make the difference So I’m taking the time And you ain’t never gonna’ be happy Anyhow, anyway So I’m going fishing And I’m going today I’m going fishing Sounds crasy I know I know nothing about fishing But just watch me go And when my time has come I… Read more »

agent p
Guest
agent p

“I laid there for a long time just staring and thinking about life and living and God and the universe.” I count myself lucky to have had many moments like that on the water. In particular when you are doing an offshore race for a few days. You’re in the middle of the ocean hundreds of miles from the nearest land and civilization and you are focused enough on the activity that it is utterly meditative without actually requiring conscious thought. You look up and see stars like you’ll never see on the shore and are able to open yourself… Read more »

Jeremy
Guest

I doubt Emily is really offended…

But she wants to be.

SJF
Guest
SJF

@ScribblerG October 21st, 2015 at 8:53 am Times have changed. It would be tough for even an Alpha father to take his wife and children on an extended trip these days. It was easier in the old days before feminism took over. Just last night I was asked by a close friend–who notified me that his father just passed away– to send him a copy of the eulogy I wrote for my father this past February. Here was a brief excerpt. “Raising 4 boys was difficult. But Dad had the courage to provide plenty of adventure in the 1970’s. I… Read more »

SJF
Guest
SJF

@Agent P

Awesome example of peak experiences. Thanks for relating that.

Is This Thing On?
Guest
Is This Thing On?

I know a couple. When they go fishing, she has to bait the hook and clean the fish because he thinks it’s gross. I simply don’t understand how the world works any more.

BigAl
Guest
BigAl

My LTR really wants to come duck hunting with me. She’s in for a cold, rude awakening lol

keyser Soze
Guest
keyser Soze
Not Born This Morning
Guest

I want to discuss one thing this blog site has not addressed, unless I’ve missed it, and I haven’t read this entire post yet so maybe I’m jumping the gun) but here goes. Letting a woman into certain parts of your frame can produce some extremely disappointing consequences. My disappointments with women rarely resulted from me trying to fit into their world or worrying about my acceptability concerning burden of performance. Most of my disappointments and frustration has been directly the result of bringing a woman into my world and expecting her to relate to the world and life much… Read more »

Andy
Guest
Andy

“I have always wanted a relationship with a woman who sincerely enjoys life in the way I do so I can share that enjoyment with a female companion. Years ago, I resigned myself to the apparent fact that this will never happen.”

You need a new woman.

SJF
Guest
SJF

Yes NBTM, you jumped the gun. What you are describing is the dynamic of the original posted essay by Rollo.

kfg
Guest
kfg

“Most of my disappointments and frustration has been directly the result of bringing a woman into my world and expecting her to relate to the world and life much as I do.”

Why did you do that?

xabi
Guest
xabi

Every learning process is a generalization. We learn through pattern recognition, and those who recognize the patterns learn faster. It is how it works. In fact we are connecting dots every time we use the language. Every word, every concept we communicate or talk about is a general abstract idea which is only real partially. As a result, how are we able to understand what, for example, fishing is, without acknowledging of all different imagery that fishing inspire in every one of us and our cultures? It is the common root of the concept which put us in the same… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
Guest

“My LTR really wants to come duck hunting with me. She’s in for a cold, rude awakening lol” DON’T DO IT. I tried that ONCE. IT TOTALY FFFFUUUUUCCKKED UP THE HUNT. And I was pissed for weeks. Trust me, it is not worth it. She will NEVER be as impressed as you are with all the wonderful things about it. If she were even inclined, she would have already tried it on her own and she would be inviting you to go. Good luck finding a woman like that, they don’t exist unless they are bull dike and then those… Read more »

keyser Soze
Guest
keyser Soze

@Emily,
The ” my daddy ” explains a LOT about you , when are you planning on advocating for women ONLY fishing channel (that’s of course, after closing down all men’s fishing channel?.

It is all about equality bullshits, women want to destroy every single male sport/hobby, first, they stick their noses in a man’s interests , then they lobby to participate, when they participate and find out , it is “boring”, they move on to start whining about the next thing to prove, God knows what.
Just like little girls.

Not Born This Morning
Guest

“My daddy took me fishing all the time as a teen.
So shut up. Just please, shut, the, f*ck, up.”

Yaaa!, yaaaa!, yaaaa!, yaaaa!, yaaaa!

Your daddy took you fishing?

Oooohhhh how wonderful. He must be a wonderful daddy. Ooohhh what a sweet daddy.

Bitch. Did you ever go fishing on your own without your daddy?

Because YOU wanted to go fishing?

Because YOU enjoy it for what it is and nothing else?

WITHOUT ANY BULLSHIT?

Not Born This Morning
Guest

Man + nature + dog = deep satisfaction

Man + nature + woman (with or without dog) = misery

Andy
Guest
Andy

“Man + nature + woman (with or without dog) = misery”

This is probably more of a result of where I live, but there’s quite a few nature loving women around. At least if you make it somewhat easy on them.

Of course I would never take a woman hunting, fishing, on a multi-day hike, technical climb, winter camping trip or any other activity where you are pushing yourself. Learned that lesson as a kid. lol.

CaveClown
Guest
CaveClown

I’m having a hard time with this post, and not converting it to a blue pill thinking in my mind. My thoughts: I wonder if a woman wanting to join in “her man’s” activities can actually be a test though? A test of his frame, and keeping a separate life outside of her’s? Like some sort of man slut that just opens is life up to her at her request? Maybe that’s why when they do join in those activities, they get bitchy? Would she have been happier if he said no? Where is the line between her genuine interest… Read more »

agent p
Guest
agent p

NBTM, Sadly I suspect you simply have to lower your expectation. I can say for my part, I have been better able to have my wife appreciate things, material or otherwise, after enduring some hardship together, serious scary hardship like nearly losing house and such. As I learned along time ago and as I related to her in some of our darker hours. “Everyone in the world feels like their worst moment in life is the worst moment ever in the history of mankind.” Even a scintilla of rational thought would tell us that this is not true, but it… Read more »

Jeremy
Guest

@Rollo Tomassi …the first woman to comment… *second* woman to comment. @keyser Soze Beautifully appropriate video. Two minutes of selfie taking at a ballgame says everything you need to know about why you “Never Take a Woman Fishing.” @ITTO Wow, I’ve not read something so blatantly self-contradictory on the MSM in a while. Check this out: …What is a man? Sighs of relief and phrases such as “leader,” “protector,” “caretaker,” “responsible,” “head of the house” fell from their mouths. Each session, I told them that they had just described my single mother and most women I’ve encountered in my life.… Read more »

Is This Thing On?
Guest
Is This Thing On?

As Bill Burr says, they don’t want their own shit. They want our shit.

kfg
Guest
kfg

“Is the point of this post is that I am asking women to fill a role that should be filled by other men, myself, and dogs?”

Yes.

“Why am I trying to blue pill this into, “If she’s into me she will want to be my buddy!”???”

Blue pills.

SJF
Guest
SJF

Caveclown “If she’s into me she will want to be my buddy!”??? Yes. It is that simple. When moving into together, she is better able to steal a man’s frame. I wonder if a woman wanting to join in “her man’s” activities can actually be a test though? A test of his frame, and keeping a separate life outside of her’s? Like some sort of man slut that just opens is life up to her at her request? Maybe that’s why when they do join in those activities, they get bitchy? Would she have been happier if he said no?… Read more »

CaveClown
Guest
CaveClown

“Most of my disappointments and frustration has been directly the result of bringing a woman into my world and expecting her to relate to the world and life much as I do.” Not to pick a fight with you NBTM, but this is exactly what my thoughts above are trying to communicate. Is this not a blue pill way of thinking? Shouldn’t we be insisting our women take a complementary role, not a similar role? Not this frame: “This is my world, this is what I like, and you will like it too” THIS frame: “This is my world, this… Read more »

SJF
Guest
SJF

Sorry about the stray code, you can figure it out.

MasterL
Guest

Women only love 2 things from men. Awesome sex and awesome attention.

Everything else is just filler.

Once you understand that everything they do in relation to men starts to make sense.

kfg
Guest
kfg

“Shouldn’t we be insisting our women take a complementary role, not a similar role?”

You catch, kill and gut the rabbit, she skins, cooks the carcass and makes a hat out of the hide.

If you both do the same task, you’ll both be living on raw rabbit while shivering in the cold.

Fred Flange, duncing fuel
Guest
Fred Flange, duncing fuel

Congruent with the foregoing: Here’s the yin and yang. The line “Isn’t it time you grew up and got over this” is more than a Beta Tell. It’s a brushback pitch. Shit test? More like boulder test. Danger, Will Robinson! There’s all the info you need she will resist and resent you enjoying your pursuit, forget about trying to join in even a little bit. I actually did hear this in an earlier LTR, from my then-pixie dream girl (not manic tho). Thankfully that ended, would have been an awful BP starter marriage, yucko. If you give in and cede… Read more »

d. beguiled
Guest
d. beguiled

Brad Paisley takes the next step:

kfg
Guest
kfg

Rollo: I read my wife Hans Christian Anderson’s story The OldTree’s Last Dream

She told me that she didn’t understand or appreciate it, but that she loved that I did.

newlyaloof
Guest

Emily: “You men shut. the. fuck. up about our bodies. We can kill our babies if we want to!”
Man: “Don’t take women fishing!”
Emily: “I am so offended. Just shut. the. fuck. up!”

This is Rollo’s boat. Stop ramming it with your inflated dingy.

kfg
Guest
kfg

Tag fail is going around, that’s The Old Oak Tree’s Last Dream, found here: http://vanhise.lss.wisc.edu/~aschmidt2/danish/hca/texts/oldoaktree.hca.html

Not Born This Morning
Guest

@ CaveClown – “Not to pick a fight with you NBTM, but this is exactly what my thoughts above are trying to communicate. Is this not a blue pill way of thinking?” I can see why you or anyone would suspect that. However it’s not the case as women usually ask to go…”Take me with you!”….”Oh, I love fishing, can I come too?….”That’s so cool !! you really boar hunt with a bow!!?? I wanna go!!…. …..only to discover they don’t really like anything about it…Its just a scam to weasel into places they have no business being in because… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
Guest

‘Temporal Provincials’

Makes perfect sense.

kfg
Guest
kfg

” As nice as it is to have a mate that shares your interests, a relationship based on how alike the couple is only leads to homogenization and stagnation.”

I have heard it put that if you and your wife are too alike, one of you is redundant.

“I do not think women have the capacity to experience life in this context to the same magnitude that men do.”

Until very recently the world of men has always been larger than that of women. A woman’s world is around the home, a man’s world is – the world.

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