Never Take a Woman Fishing

never_fishing

(h/t to Zelscorpion for the image and ref for today’s post)

Hi Rollo,
On rereading Truth to Power a very inspirational post, I wanted to hear your thoughts on men with families such as my self choosing to travel on vacation alone.

In your videos above you touched on masculine qualities men being in the driver seat around decision making. I have a wife you as with many women is cultured to try assume headship of the household with decision making even vacations etc.

She doesn’t want to travel abroad as we have a 7 month old son where as I feel there is no reason why she should worry about doing so. Anyway the crux of the issue is I am only 28 years old and having sacrificed my independence early (at 25) have a desire to travel and I don’t care about rocking the boat to make that happen.

I would love to hear some advice about the benefits of and good ways of grabbing hold again of control of our own circumstances and decisions!

Never take a woman fishing.

That’s a little idiom I learned way before I was Red Pill aware from the guy who was the best man at my wedding, and my long time fishing buddy. I wouldn’t call him a philosopher, but he was a keen observer of women’s behavior and became salt-of-the-earth wise by default:

“When you take a woman fishing you’re trying to include them in something they really don’t want to be doing, but you like it a lot. So you think ‘I like fishing and I want to include her in something we can do together’, but when you do she complains about EVERYTHING. ‘It’s dirty, I’m cold, I’m hot, I didn’t bring a water bottle, where’s the sunscreen?, there’s too many bugs, why are there so many bugs?, why do we have to hike so far to fish? can’t we just find a spot by the dam? where’s the bathroom?, etc. etc.”

“So what do you do? You force yourself to make her comfortable the whole damn time. You don’t hike, you don’t scout for the sweet spots on the river or, God forbid, you try to get her in a kayak. You end up going out after breakfast and the light’s all wrong. You try to keep them clean and close to the ‘potty’, you bait their hook ’cause it’s filthy, you untangle their reel snarls,…what you don’t do is fish. Your whole trip becomes about making her ‘like’ fishing with you and not about actually fishing and doing all the things we do when we fish together or on our own. I mean, you want ’em to like it, but you’ll never teach them to like it because you’re too busy making everything right for ’em.”

“Unless they were brought up right and they dig fishing ’cause their Dad taught ’em to like it, never try to bring a woman fishing. They gotta come to liking it on their own, they gotta want to do it on their own. I mean, look at Dodge (our dog) he don’t care if it’s cold or 4am, he’s happy to be on the trail going wherever the fuck we’re headed.”

Back in May Zelscorpion tweeted a few of the pictures from this series and made an interesting point:

https://twitter.com/Zelcorpion/status/599493741573971969

I had to admit, he’s got a point and it reminded me of the sage words of my Best Man. I think one of the tragedies of men’s Blue Pill conditioning is the presumption that they must find a way, sometimes forcibly, to become more compatible with a woman. I wrote about the paradox of compatibility a while back:

It’s very entertaining for me to hear guys reason as to why they got into yoga, or my all time favorite, salsa dancing as some means of meeting girls. I mean really, if that’s the goal you choose to devote the precious few hours of your leisure time to then I suppose a guy ought to take up scrap-booking or zumba.

If you’re picking up a hobby in order to meet women all you’re doing is attempting to Identify with what you expect your idealized woman to appreciate. If you get into something for this reason it’s not a hobby, it’s a Buffer.

Successful men don’t chase success – success chases them. Women are going to expect you to have your own uncontrived, interests, passions and hobbies established before meeting them.

When I first began counseling men in my SoSuave days many times I’d read guys telling me, “Well if she’s not into the same things I am she’s just not the ‘right’ girl for me”, as if common interests were some criteria that would trump his sexual interests in a girl. Blue Pill idealism convinces men that the “right girl” will necessarily love doing the same things as himself, but the all too common Red Pill truth is that men will have their peak experiences in life alone or in the company of other men who share the passions and interests their wives simply have no interest in.

Peak Experience

I don’t subscribe to Maslow’s theories in whole, but I do think his Peak Experience idea has merit. There will be times and achievements in your life that will stand out as significantly memorable. It’s easy to point to the experiences that should be the most significant; a marriage, the birth of a child, a religious experience, a first kiss, a school graduation, etc., you get the idea – experiences that should be the standard fare in a romanticized, idealistic sense.

We tend to overblow these experiences because we think they should be something to etch in our consciousness; and if we don’t, well, then there must be something wrong with us for not appreciating their popular significance. Tragically it’s our negative experiences that have the most lasting effect on us; evolution has made pain something memorable so as to help us avoid potentially life-ending future experiences. But the events that should evoke lasting good memories, the ones we are taught should be significant, are often the ones we ruin with unrealistic expectations, or we build up only to have them not quite live up to the fantasy we make of them.

The Peak Experiences I’m talking about here aren’t planned, or are just loosely planned by necessity. Some of the most memorable events you’ll ever experience wont be ones that you had a forethought about. These are often the experiences we hope to recreate long after they occur, but prove impossible to really recapture. Much of what makes up our personal preferences in life come from these spontaneous Peak Experiences. Remember the first girl you got with? Remember that time when things aligned just perfectly for you to hit that hole in one?

One of the reasons I have such a passion for snowmobiles was due to a day I blew off work so I could go out for the entire day on a beautiful Lake Tahoe morning. I went on my own which is something I rarely did. It was a Wednesday so there was nobody on the trails. The snow was only a day old and I took my sled to the top of a place called High Meadows, but even this pristine place wasn’t high enough. I took off in the back country and got to the top of a peak that was as high as I dared to go alone. Once I got there I had a view of the lake that I imagine few people had experienced. Then I fell back on the seat of my sled and stared at a sky that was so blue I never thought of it in the same way again. I laid there for a long time just staring and thinking about life and living and God and the universe.

On my way down the hill I thought how cool it would be to bring Mrs. Tomassi up there so she could appreciate it too. I mean, why wouldn’t I want to share such an incredible Peak Experience with the woman I love; the woman I want to share my life with? To this day Mrs. T has only been on my sled about 3 times. She’s very self-cautious and doesn’t like the smell and sound of the engine. That might seem trivial, but no matter how much I can try to relate that experience or try to recapture it no one but myself will ever have that unique event.

Experience & Frame

When I look at the guy with his dog in these camping shots I can now appreciate them much more because I know he’s experienced that same uniqueness. When you plan an event with a woman, when you make efforts to bring her into an appreciation of something you enjoy the experience of you must remember that you are, in essence, negotiating for her genuine desire to do so.

Now, before I’m run up the flagpole for suggesting otherwise, yes I know that many men and women do in fact find pleasure in commonly held interests. I see women on the river fishing in waders and at Trout Unlimited events all the time. My point isn’t the interest itself, but rather the desire to participate in it. A lot of guys hold the belief that including their wife, girlfriend or even a girl they’re spinning as a plate in something they think she should enjoy will have the effect of bringing them closer. The inherent problem with this is the presumption that including her in it will lead to some new shared experience that will bond them both in a genuine way.

The problem with preplanned ‘date nights’ is the same problem men experience with trying to pull a woman into his Frame by insisting she take up one of his hobbies or passions; it’s contrived and feels disingenuous to her. The point of the experience becomes about her being involved in it and not the actual doing of whatever it is you do together. The vibe becomes one of him making and controlling that experience so it becomes something pleasurable for her to participate in rather than really finding some inherent reward from it due to genuine interest.

Thus you get guys who (figuratively) take their women fishing and the event becomes more about introducing her to it than actually catching fish. Guys get so caught up in controlling unpleasant variables for her that the real experience of fishing is something entirely different. They want that woman to feel the same joy he does in doing something intrinsically rewarding to him, but the truth of it is she must come to it on her own.

Always Maintain Your Individualism

And this leads us back, once again, to establishing and maintaining a positive, dominant and individualistic Frame with a woman. She must want to enter your reality for it to be a genuine desire on her part – you cannot lead her into it, she must enter it of her own volition. Spontaneity is the key. Whether it’s an ‘insta-date’ from a PUA perspective, or an unexpected twist of plans in your marriage, that woman must want to participate in that event, in that moment of her own accord.

A good test of genuine interest with a woman is less about how open she is to trying “your things” and more about how insistent she is instigating her own participation in them. The trap most Betas fall into is converting “his things” into “our things” and he compromises those previously rewarding experiences into a sideshow he hopes will bond he and his woman together.

In Male Space I made this point:

When the influence of feminine-primacy is introduced into social settings made up mainly by men and male-interests, the dynamics and purpose of that group changes. The purpose becomes less about the endeavor itself and more about adherence to the feminine-inclusionary aspect of that endeavor. It starts to become less about being the best or most passionate at what they do, and more about being acceptable to the influence of the Feminine Imperative while attempting maintaining the former level of interest in the endeavor.

A similar dynamic plays out when men try to open the Male Space of whatever it is they find individually enjoyable to the women they hope will share in his enthusiasm. One thing I learned very early on in my marriage was the absolutely vital importance of maintaining my individual identity apart from my wife.

The biggest mistake I made when I was involved in LTRs prior to meeting my wife was allowing myself to get caught up in the equalist idea that since both men and women were functional equals we should necessarily base our compatibility estimates on how alike we were in interests. Consequently I progressively began convincing myself that I found their interests fascinating, but in doing so I slipped into their Frame. I was too scared of losing a woman and was too necessitous to experiment with doing what I should have – insisting on maintaining my individual interests and maintaining my own reality for a woman to enter.

I was fortunate in that Mrs. T expected me to control the Frame from the start of our relationship. I’ll admit, at the time it was something very unfamiliar to me to have a woman expect me to prioritize my interests above her own, but the purpose of this was establishing a Frame she wanted to enter into. Today I adamantly insist on having a life that is apart from her, but she can enter into if she has a real interest in it. This blog is just one extension of that dynamic.

If you are to maintain a dominant Frame with a woman you must necessarily set your interests apart from her own. You must still insist on your individualized identity and the experiences that set you apart from her in order to maintain a reality in which she continually wishes to genuinely be a part of.

Ted had a great comment from last week’s thread that speaks to this:

I don’t expect my wife to be like a man with male interests. I expect her to be a human with human interests. Something deeper than pop culture anyway.

I know a little bit about a whole lot of stuff. I’m willing to chat about any number of subjects other than tech and politics. It just has to he something better than what’s on TV and the weather. I keep hearing women can do anything a man can, so let’s see some intellectual debate!

More often than not truths must be brought to women by men. It’s uniquely refreshing when women have the critical insight to look for truths, but it’s refreshing because it’s rare – and it’s refreshing when they seek them from a man who’s Frame she’s chosen to be a part of. One of the best aspects of the principle of Amused Mastery is that, if you actually have the mastery that comes from individualized experience, it makes maintaining a positive, dominant and enjoyable Frame much easier with the same woman.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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CaveClown
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Rollo,

It’s amazing how I can read a post of your’s, like the compatibility one you linked, and think I get it.

Then later, like now, I realize I never got it at all and its like putting puzzle pieces together in my mind. It all kind of clicks. Thanks for the link.

CaveClown
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“When I was dating my wife we shared one common interest – fucking like rabbits whenever and wherever.” (from the compatibility post)

Funny, that’s the only interest of mine we didn’t have in common at the beginning!

My god was I an idiot.

God is Laughing
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I think that this falls into the category of “soul mate” error. When women are the “one” they are supposed to cover our entire range of emotions, activities, hobbies and interests. They must want to have sex when we want to have sex. They must love hiking, fishing, hunting, chess, etc. Or we haven’t found “the one”. What a stupid idea. (I used to subscribe to it).

MikePhil
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@SFJ Your comment is exactly right. There will always be a social safety net available from friends and strangers alike, so why bother with remembering where your car keys are? Somebody will fix it for you. When my ex wife blew through the six (6 ) sets of spare house keys I kept in a year, I gave up and told her to just wait for me at the library or a coffeehouse until I got home. Much tears and blaming ensued, but even in my Blue Pill days I recognized what was happening. She didn’t take care about remembering… Read more »

Dutchman
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My wife tries to guilt me out of going hunting as often as I would like by huffing and puffing (passive aggressively) about how “I don’t know how I’ll be able to get everything with the kids done (with me gone) but I’ll figure it out somehow.” She also likes to pretend to that I didn’t mention that I had intended to go on a given day when I remind her that I’m leaving the next morning.

Any thoughts on how to put a stop to these tactics?

Striver
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The problem I see is that women can afford to do this. If a woman has any SMV, and any interest in anything that a man might have interest in, as a man you are subject to competition from those men. If you are outdone in the single activity of her interest (at the time), she is going to ditch you for another man. Could be antiquing, cycling, martial arts, even hunting and fishing. Women can afford to be whining complainers about most activities, because they can find men who share an interest in the one thing they don’t hate.… Read more »

keyser Soze
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I remember buying a toy Tank to my nephew and a Barbie to his little sister, the boy, never paid attention to the Barbie, the little sister, wanted to check the Tank (while still holding the Barbie),she started screaming,yelling, wanting to check the Tank, when I let her check the Tank(after asking my nephew), she held it, check it around, and then she gave it back with indifference!.

Jeremy
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@Striver

Keep in mind, a lot of women, especially high SMV women, are basically narcissists. They just presume when they come along on a trip with a man, that they’ll continue to be the center of attention. In fact many of them are probably basing their indignation at not being invited on the fact that there exist any activities where they can’t be the center of attention. It’s a rude awakening for some of them that men actually have interests other than women.

MikePhil
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@Dutchman

The best way to put a stop to those tactics, is to ignore them in the first place. Most women will pull out all the stops to get you to stop doing what you want, alone; recognize that it’s a massive shit test and proceed accordingly. She’ll respect you more if you ignore her protestations and move forward with your plans. You’re communicating higher status and ignoring the implied threat in her actions.

Dutchman
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Oh I always go anyway. I just get tired of the bullshit.

Not Born This Morning
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Uhhhgh dhu, is this like narcissism or something?

theasdgamer
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So, Rollo, do you object to meeting girls or do you have some religious objection to dancing? Is that why you won’t fuck standing up? Seriously, just because you don’t like something, don’t assume that most men won’t. I mean, it’s just so repellent to run your hands over women’s bodies, amirite? Last night a married broad and I were goofing around on the dance floor. She had her hands on my chest and was pushing me hard. I was backpedaling, flailing my arms and looking around at people, pretending to be helpless. Suddenly, I reversed course and dipped the… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
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@Is This Thing On?

“They will lower it until they get the divide by zero error they are looking for.”

I’d say that has already been happening.

And keeps happening over and over as they continue to run the equation over and over expecting a different result – Insanity error.

theasdgamer
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Tragically it’s our negative experiences that have the most lasting effect on us; evolution has made pain something memorable so as to help us avoid potentially life-ending future experiences.

Bullshit. Negative memories quickly become vague and fade quickly. I still remember my first feeling of security when I was three sitting in my Daddy’s lap.

theasdgamer
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bnon
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A real woman interest thing that I’m fascinated by is the dress-up for going out. She may start 90 minutes early, dancing in front of the mirror, choosing clothes – her mood is almost better during the preparation than during the actual thing. I love sitting on the bed, doing whatever, watching the process.

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@Dutchman

I cosign what MikePhil said. It is a shit test. First rule of shit tests is recognize that it is a shit test. Then respond appropriately–always without emotion–with appropriate married man game tactics and carry on in your pursuit. That is not to say you should not bring out the beta when it is actually a “comfort” test when her mother dies or she has back surgery, or the kids need your attention because she is passive-agressively taking her frustrations out on them.

theasdgamer
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I am in full agreement with the title of this post. When I go dancing for work (to get stories), I don’t take Mrs. Gamer along because having her along would ruin it.

anotherlawyerwaistingtime
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I disagree with the guy that said “grow up” to guy that wanted to go on travel. If he does not travel, he is giving up frame. The kids, as Rollo notes, are used to change frame and a tool to undermine Fathers/Men. If he wants to travel he should. He can leave wife and kid behind. Liz is a woman and her opinion means nothing on being a man.

theasdgamer
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Your comment about salsa dancing. Why are you shitting on lead-follow dancing? Part of its charm is the physical contact with women.

theasdgamer
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@ Dutchman

Just lol at her comments. Don’t argue with her.

Andy
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“Oh I always go anyway. I just get tired of the bullshit.”

@Dutchman

If it was me I would just make sure she had advanced notice. If she pulls the guilt trip on you tell her that it’s bullshit and you don’t want to hear it anymore. Then when you get back in a good mood tell her that you had fun.

Jeremy
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@theasdgamer So, Rollo, do you object to meeting girls or do you have some religious objection to dancing? Is that why you won’t fuck standing up? Seriously, just because you don’t like something, don’t assume that most men won’t. I mean, it’s just so repellent to run your hands over women’s bodies, amirite? I’ve been Salsa Dancing for 10+ years now and I can admit it was a buffer. It’s not a buffer now and I still do it, but it was one for me at one point. I still prefer social dancing scenes to bar/club scenes by far, as… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
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@LeeLee October 21st, 2015 at 8:49 am “I enjoy being taught by my husband a lot, and it’s something that makes me feel very attracted to him, but it should definitely be an occasional thing. I like when he’s having some kind of emotional moment over football that I can’t fathom and he explains what’s happening to me. I can imagine that being taught to fish by him would be sexy, but ideally it would be a in a moment specially created for me to learn from him, not for me to be initiated into fishing for real. I like… Read more »

kfg
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” … it’s just too big a scary man’s world now isn’t it….?

What if the perfectly honest answer is “yes”?

theasdgamer
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“It’s very entertaining for me to hear guys reason as to why they got into yoga, or my all time favorite, salsa dancing as some means of meeting girls.”

CaveClown
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Not white knighting here, but I liked that Lee Lee knew her place as a woman. Why would we expect her to join a man’s world? Isn’t that half the problem?

I mean why hate on her for that?

theasdgamer
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Yeah, I read it. You still dissed lead-follow dancing by implication. You paired salsa dancing with yoga.

Not Born This Morning
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AF – BB

One mans trash is another mans treasure.

Some men like fishing for fishing’s sake for sport – catch and release.

kfg
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“You paired salsa dancing with yoga.”

I’ve studied yoga – with a bunch of 80 and 90 year old men from India, yet I did not take offence at the bias.

kfg
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@NBTM: There is a historical report of a Chinese sage who eventually removed the hook from his line, because catching a fish interrupted his fishing.

SJF
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“Tragically it’s our negative experiences that have the most lasting effect on us; evolution has made pain something memorable so as to help us avoid potentially life-ending future experiences.” Bullshit. Negative memories quickly become vague and fade quickly. I still remember my first feeling of security when I was three sitting in my Daddy’s lap. And if you want a link, https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200306/past-perfect-why-bad-memories-fade The linked article described how all bets are off if one is mildly depressed. And I surmise that a child that touches a stove is mildly depressed after getting burned by it. I rarely see men here that… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
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@theasdgamer

October 21st, 2015 at 2:10 pm

“You still dissed lead-follow dancing by implication. You paired salsa dancing with yoga”

….And logically, because all such dancing is feminine primary. All romantic dancing is born of feminine primacy ideology.

Masculine primary dancing involves “war dance”, “fire dance”, “rain dance”, “buffalo dance”.

All humane dance from the beginning of history begs what it symbolizes. Romantic dance begs courtship of love culminating in sexual intercourse. Modern western romantic dance including salsa is mans begging for pussy. Women are not nearly as turned on by a good dancer as they are by more masculine traits.

Jeremy
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@SJF Also, keep in mind that while the memory itself may fade, the adopted behaviors of self-protection from negative experiences usually last a lifetime. My father was put into a powerboat at night to watch So.Cal fireworks when he was a kid. He got seasick, so his parents told him to go below. He puked. He has hated boats and boat related activities ever since. The memory itself may be lost, the impact usually isn’t. If it were not so, chronic psychological trauma would be *easy* to diagnose, it would just involve having everyone list all their negative experiences in… Read more »

David W
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I am convinced that a decent percentage of commenters here, and I am speaking of the men, regularly make two mistakes:

1. They do not read the entire essay.
2. They do not read with the goal of understanding your essay. i.e. they read it quickly, do not spend any time thinking about the content, and just immediately comment with whatever their first thought may be.

=/

Not Born This Morning
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@SJF – “Bullshit. Negative memories quickly become vague and fade quickly. I still remember my first feeling of security when I was three sitting in my Daddy’s lap. And if you want a link, https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200306/past-perfect-why-bad-memories-fade” Do you believe everything pop culture sells you? Do you believe everything the presstitutes tell you? Does academic pontification supersede common sense? Do you expect me to have forgotten all my worst memories? What taught you to ride a bike, your dad who is still holding the seat or your skinned elbow and knee? What taught you to drive a car, wonderful feelings about imagining… Read more »

SJF
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“Note to self: Never to use metaphors online.”

Heheh

Because 20% of the readers will get it and the other half won’t.

SJF
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“Bullshit. Negative memories quickly become vague and fade quickly. I still remember my first feeling of security when I was three sitting in my Daddy’s lap.

And if you want a link,

https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200306/past-perfect-why-bad-memories-fade”

Sorry for my lack of clear reference, but the above in quotes was originally stated by AdsGamer and I attempted to reference it in my comment to the contrary.

Not Born This Morning
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@David W

“They do not read with the goal of understanding your essay. i.e. they read it quickly, do not spend any time thinking about the content, and just immediately comment with whatever their first thought may be.”

Damn it David, I have sometimes resembled that comment.

IAS
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Yoga is pretty cool (for me) but I didn’t go do it to be around girls. In the origins of Yoga it was probably either exclusively male or male-dominated. I think it is in the West that Yoga is seen as a female activity. But I think ASDGamer that you do yourself a disservice by being offended with salsa dancing being. If you do it because you want to do it regardless of being a buffer no problem. That’s certainly how I was doing Yoga (or peeing sitting down, mind) – I don’t think Rollo is against any of those… Read more »

CaveClown
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“I am convinced that a decent percentage of commenters here, and I am speaking of the men, regularly make two mistakes: 1. They do not read the entire essay. 2. They do not read with the goal of understanding your essay. i.e. they read it quickly, do not spend any time thinking about the content, and just immediately comment with whatever their first thought may be. =/” Not sure I understand your point, but I didn’t read your whole comment either. Just playin’ Not only do I read Rollo’s essays with the goal of understanding, I actually take notes. I’ll… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
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“People have an inherent bias to view their experiences in a
positive light,” says study author Richard Walker, Ph.D., assistant
professor of psychology at Winston-Salem State University in North
Carolina.”

Do the apparent results directly reveal actual impetus? Or can the results be altered or masked by freewill? Do people report less memory of bad experiences because they remember them less or because they prefer not to re-experience them or for fear they will be shamed by affirming them?

Not Born This Morning
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Concerning Crisis of Motive and salsa dancing.

What is the perception of motive when salsa dancing is part of the feminine frame?

CaveClown
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“Like today I learned that I shouldn’t take girls fishing, I shouldn’t do yoga, and I should only salsa dance if I am there for the dancing and not the chance to meet women.” I hope you know this was a joke rollo. I’ve taken up hobbies and changed my routines to meet or better impress women. Running clubs, lifting, sunday morning grocery shopping, coffee shops before work, whatever. No motive crisis here, I do it to meet and (hopefully eventually lol) fuck women. My motive is to be more successful with women. That said, I sure wouldn’t do something… Read more »

scribblerg
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@SJF – Before my dad and stepmom’s divorce, we’d do those kind driving, family vacations. Camping often, I get it. 6 yrs old is entirely different from 7 months though. Having a car and a camper is entirely different than flying to Europe. Just the food, diapers and clothing for a 7 month old for 3 days could fill a backpack. Imagine your kid is gets an ear infection and you are trying to get the eardrops at midnight in Germany and you don’t speak German? Kid is screaming at the top of her lungs, your wife is losing it… Read more »

Blaximus
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” Note to self: Never to use metaphors online. ”

; )

SJF
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Well said G.

Thanks.

keyser Soze
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Re bad memory fades!?
I still remember the $180 dinner I paid for the cunt Pauline’s terrible BJ. That was 25 years ago. I still remember it every day.

Re salsa dance!?
First, I can’t stand the music.
Second, the only Masculine Latin dance, is : TANGO.

Re Yoga,,,Hummmmm,
Go swimming instead.
When a guy tells me , he does dancing/yoga ,for himself, reminds me when a woman,tells you, she wears yoga pants for herself , not because she wants to Seduce.

Not Born This Morning
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Back to salsa and crisis of motive. In salsa dancing the men wear a uniform. All their suits are traditional and very similar, usually black, a few white. This is not so with the female outfits. They vary a lot in color, texture and somewhat in form. This is in contrast to the relatively boring male uniform. The female dress is universally sexually revealing, highlighting and enhancing the female dancers SMV. Male audience members intently watch for every glimpse of cleavage, tits or ass curve they can see.The male dancer prances and moves her around like she is a prize.… Read more »

anotherlawyerwaistingtime
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anotherlawyerwaistingtime
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With all due respect Scrib, your story doesn’t apply to the guy’s question about traveling. He enjoys traveling and should continue if it appropriate. He is not saying he isn’t being or doesn’t want to raise his kids. He wants to do something he enjoys. You seem to be saying he should give it up for the child[ren]. What is the next thing that wife wants him to give up for the child[ren]? Where does it stop? Your reasoning appears to be shaming and BP. Best Regards!

lh
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lh
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No, Scribbler and it hurts if you make him apologize. Also note you being an asshole calmed him down.

Someone over at Roissy’s quoted someone else: “I know many lonely nice guys, but I never saw a lonely asshole.” They may run away in anger at first, but they always come back. At least if they sense an opportunity to catch you on your nice side.

Blaximus
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Salsa Dancing. Lmfao. I learned to dance Salsa as a teen. I used to go to the Puerto Rican clubs in NYC and dance all night long trying to capture the ” sabor “. It was tedious and rewarding as hell all at the same time. Spending time in P.R. showed me that the mainland has a watered down version of Salsa. Today it’s even more dry to spread it’s popularity. Watching the older men in their panama hats dance Salsa ” old style ” is very, very different than a standard ” couple’s ” Salsa. Men break away from… Read more »

kfg
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kfg
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“Also note you being an asshole calmed him down.”

Scribbler is a self-admitted asshole. In his new, kinder and gentler form, he is still an asshole.

But . . . there was nothing in his story that indicated any assholosity on his part. In the Brave New World “asshole” is any man that isn’t simply a damp and torn paper dishrag.

It was the kid who was being an asshole. It was power that calmed him down.

scribblerg
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scribblerg
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@SJF – Also, wrt your wife’s forgetfulness about important things, I think I was making a different point. I don’t know that forgetfulness and carelessness are necessarily correlated with intelligence. My Mom was a genius but lost her car keys 3 times or more a week. But your larger point is interesting in a couple of ways. The carelessness may well be an adaptive response to being looked out for. She simply knows things will be taken care of, it nor by you, by the next guy who’s willing to step in cuz your wife is a catch, and she… Read more »

Fred Flange, duncing furrier
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Fred Flange, duncing furrier
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Now we’re getting silly. Glenn isn’t saying a dad must “give up” travel again now that he’s popped out a puppy. Just that traveling ANY significant distance with a nephew (even a toddler who can walk) is way more work and bother than can possibly be imagined. It will be no fun for anyone, especially him. All he has to do is maybe short trips away for a weekend or so until the kid gets a bit bigger. Soon there can be the whole Cub Scout/Boy Scout thing, where the kid becomes part of the adventure. Also they are much… Read more »

keyser Soze
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keyser Soze
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I think dancing originated in Africa, where MEN danced (in a masculine moves) to show their masculinity.

The early feminists/girls , screamed : hey, we want to dance like that too , but instead of showing muscles, they showed their tits. It was “impowering”.

SJF
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@anotherlawyerwaistingtime “With all due respect Scrib, your story doesn’t apply to the guy’s question about traveling. He enjoys traveling and should continue if it appropriate. He is not saying he isn’t being or doesn’t want to raise his kids. He wants to do something he enjoys. You seem to be saying he should give it up for the child[ren]. What is the next thing that wife wants him to give up for the child[ren]? Where does it stop? Your reasoning appears to be shaming and BP. Best Regards!” Traveler guy originaly wrote: “Hi Rollo, On rereading Truth to Power a… Read more »

Andy
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Andy
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“Man,.. No comment on that trout? That thing was a fucking hog.”

Anybody can swipe a pic of a fish from google. razz T’was a beauty. I’m not sure I could eat it.

kfg
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kfg
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thedeti
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thedeti
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Good post. For those who kind of missed it: Men, you need to have something just for you at all times. You need to have a thing, a hobby, a pastime, a trip, a get together, that you go to without your wife, your GF, and/or your kids. I have this get together once a year with some fraternity brothers. We get together at our alma mater every year, at least once, and spend the weekend. What do we do? Whatever the fuck we want. We drink, we talk, we sleep in, we eat good food, we play golf, we… Read more »

GRock
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GRock
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Having mastery of a skill, usually propels that activity beyond just a “hobby” for most. Since most people have time for their career, family, and just a bit more extra time, fill it wisely and create value with that time where less value existed. With age, gaining mastery of anything has a rising time-relative opportunity cost. If for instance you have current mastery of an activity, that your partner shows interest in, they usually take one of three paths: 1) Support Role: They believe in you, in part, because they see what success at that activity does to your spirit.… Read more »

SJF
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@ScribblerG “Also, wrt your wife’s forgetfulness about important things, I think I was making a different point. I don’t know that forgetfulness and carelessness are necessarily correlated with intelligence. My Mom was a genius but lost her car keys 3 times or more a week. But your larger point is interesting in a couple of ways. The carelessness may well be an adaptive response to being looked out for. She simply knows things will be taken care of, it nor by you, by the next guy who’s willing to step in cuz your wife is a catch, and she knows… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
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Not Born This Morning
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Ok I can’t get off the salsa. My soap box runneth over.. How many women are dying to fuck a salsa dancer? How many women are dying to fuck a yoga teacher? How well do those vocations pay? Do masculine things and women will be attracted. How many men are sincerely interested in “being a good dancer” compared to the number who are really interested in other things traditionally masculine? “Leading” on a dance floor does not = leading in life. Who do you think gets more pussy, a professional ball player or a yoga instructor? A race car driver… Read more »

Fred Flange, duncing furrier
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Fred Flange, duncing furrier
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“Traveling significant distance with an infant” that should be. Sorry.

Not Born This Morning
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Not Born This Morning
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That trout was fucking awesome. I’ve never seen one that large from fresh water.

keyser Soze
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keyser Soze
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Women don’t like dancing for the sake of “dancing”. A woman wants to dance is because:
1, a narcissist little princess, wants an extra dose of narcissism, given for free by an adoring orbiter.
2, The swirling, which makes her feel like a self-centered ballerina .

scribblerg
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scribblerg
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@ Fred – Thanks for doing my light work…Funny how this shit is really triggering lots of guys on this thread. I may have owned up to being an asshole here but I think I was still kind of misguided when I said that. I’m actually a good guy most of the time. The one who’s fun at the party, the one who gets along with your new friend, who doesn’t mind changes in plans and rolls with the punches. I like to have a good time and hate drama. I always have a plan and can also just chill… Read more »

Is This Thing On?
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Is This Thing On?
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When you dance, a man can learn if a women will follow and a woman can learn if a man will lead.

Yoga is useful for correcting deficites in flexibility. As like most things, Yoga Masters in India are almost always male. Men who do yoga for honest reasons are doing it because it is challenging and they are correcting a weakness. Women mostly do it so they can look hot in their yoga pants. smile

If you’re doing either just to meet women, then go ahead and be offended by what Rollo said.

kfg
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kfg
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CaveClown
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CaveClown
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Infants are natural, actual, honest to god assholes…

Why the fuck would you want to travel that far with an actual asshole?

They have lots of power, because if you don’t give them what they need, THEY DIE.

Wait until they can walk. A walking kid is far more enjoyable than one that isn’t…like night and day.

“Honey, we are going to go on this trip and have fun! Yes, we are bringing that miniature size asshole with us! You’re gonna have fun anyway!”

Seems like bad frame to me.

Bromeo
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@Rollo “Man,.. No comment on that trout? That thing was a fucking hog.” Beauty… I’m heading out at first light this Friday for the start of rainbow trout steelhead season, these fish are absolutely gorgeous and put up a hell of a fight. This post was at a good time, two of my plates wanted to always go fishing with me but I would never take them cause I just wanted to fish alone or with my brother. The plate I have right now is pretty cool, I caught a chinook salmon two weeks ago and made some fillet strips… Read more »

Andy
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Andy
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Women mostly do it so they can look hot in their yoga pants.

I was walking with my boys earlier this summer down by a local park and there was a bunch of women in a yoga class. We watched for a minute and started clapping. They seemed to like it.

anotherlawyerwaistingtime
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anotherlawyerwaistingtime
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Fred,
You are being silly and missing the larger issue. As another writer noted, it isn’t a binary option. In her Frame it is ie she & kid goes or no one goes. It is not binary option. In any event, it is his family and he is the family and can decide as he wishes. Best Regards

kfg
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kfg
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“Men who do yoga for honest reasons are doing it because it is challenging and they are correcting a weakness.”

Yoga is meditation to correct weaknesses of the mind, sometimes at the cost of doing permanent damage to the body. Calisthenics based on modern anatomical knowledge are the correct way to correct physical weaknesses.

Razorwire
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Razorwire
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Hope you applied catch and release on that trout. Wouldn’t want oneitits to set in. I grew up fishing. Dad was drafthorse beta but an outdoorsman who pressed into my brother and I the merits and necessity of a certain mastery of the environment. This is well before the REI/NorthFace ponytails made everything into just one more status-whoring consume-and-display activity. Digress. Mom fished with dad before us kids came along. But that was due to courtship. And a strong blue pill mindset. They were poor. My dad was always outdoors doing stuff. It was about time together. Once us kids… Read more »

Blaximus
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Blaximus
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NBTM Damn…again with the Salsa? ” Who gets more pussy and is more desirable, the man who develops himself because he passionately wants to for no other reason than he enjoys himself and the reality of being male or the man who is passionately trying to qualify himself to gain permission? There are certain endeavors that are inherently predominately feminine. “Salsa” is one. Unless you just happen to love salsa regardless, which is highly unusual for a man, then you shouldn’t waste your time. When you sign up for salsa to “find a woman” you enter her frame and by… Read more »

scribblerg
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scribblerg
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@LH – Let me clarify. I was dominant and intense when I told my nephew what would happen but what worked is that he knew I meant it, I was going to take him home and toss him in his room and leave him there for the day and he knew it. I was not being and asshole or nice, I was being firm and stern. An asshole is the adult who screams back louder and makes threats or complains about how upset they are getting or shames the kid. I did none of those things. Also, the apology was… Read more »

Blaximus
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Blaximus
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P.S.

… I’d still get pussy if I sold vegetables by the side of the road. It’s about mindset man.

kfg
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kfg
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Caveat: As I have noted previously, range of motion within the physical limits imposed by the skeleton actually are a “weakness” of mind, to protect you from harm. Don’t stretch, relax. Do so within the range of motion of properly performed calisthenics. Have patience and don’t push, it will take while to change your mind about your acceptable range of motion.

Yoga often exceeds the limits imposed by the skeleton, but the chippy at the mall won’t mention that.

Fred Flange, duncing furry
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Fred Flange, duncing furry
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@waisted lawyer: No one here is saying there’s a binary. All we are advising travel dad is where the line in the sand is best drawn. If wifey is just being sensible – let’s not travel with an infant – that is one thing. If wifey is saying we have kids so we can never travel again – THAT needs sorting out. Same as what I called “Isn’t it time you grew up and get over this?” Yes then there will have to be a family meeting no doubt. Bring popcorn.

Not Born This Morning
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Not Born This Morning
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@Blaximus

Damn…again with the Salsa?

I’ve barfed up enough salsa for at least one post so no more left.

I agree about open mindedness and curiosity. They are crucial. If it weren’t for those, none of us would be here on this blog and we probably wouldn’t progress at anything worthwhile. They make us open to change which is sort of the vehicle of development.

keyser Soze
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keyser Soze
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@kfg,
Loved that video (I almost uploaded something like that), I’m afraid, feminists will try to feminize that dance too, it’s too violent. Then feminize fishing!.

Not Born This Morning
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Not Born This Morning
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@Blaximus

“… I’d still get pussy if I sold vegetables by the side of the road. It’s about mindset man”

Would you be selling vegetables or sausage?

kfg
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kfg
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Zucchini.

kfg
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kfg
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anotherlawyerwaistingtime
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anotherlawyerwaistingtime
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Fred,
When you rely on or use insults it shows a weakness in your argument. Again my friend, you are missing the larger picture. Look at Frame. Rollo had an excellent post on this. Please refer back to it. You may rely on insults but being a rational male it doesn’t effect my opinion that your reasoning is flawed. Best Regards

Blaximus
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Blaximus
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” Would you be selling vegetables or sausage?”

” Zucchini. ”

Lol.

Is This Thing On?
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Is This Thing On?
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@kfg,

I believe the sum of all benefits of yoga are beyond the scope of this blog. Forgive me simplifying to the most comonly accepted view of it.

That being said, men do it for its genuine benefits as do some women. The flock of whores doing it in front of the big glass window open to the mall are doing it to look hot in their yoga pants.

Not Born This Morning
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Not Born This Morning
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Good grief !

Must the human race require a vaginal version of EVERYTHING now or go extinct?

Or is this just yet another marketing ploy to generate yet another subset of vapid sociopathic super consumers?

: http://www.redsflyfishing.com/Sage-Grace-Fly-Rod-Outfit-p/sage-graceoutfit-mp.htm

Fred Flange, duncing furry
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Fred Flange, duncing furry
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I call myself a “duncing furry” and you’re insulted?

You that sensitive in court when a judge dumps on you?

Don’t even see the insult, so I won’t try to address. (“Bring popcorn”)? Thanks for shaming. Troll someone else. We will not speak again.

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