Never Take a Woman Fishing

never_fishing

(h/t to Zelscorpion for the image and ref for today’s post)

Hi Rollo,
On rereading Truth to Power a very inspirational post, I wanted to hear your thoughts on men with families such as my self choosing to travel on vacation alone.

In your videos above you touched on masculine qualities men being in the driver seat around decision making. I have a wife you as with many women is cultured to try assume headship of the household with decision making even vacations etc.

She doesn’t want to travel abroad as we have a 7 month old son where as I feel there is no reason why she should worry about doing so. Anyway the crux of the issue is I am only 28 years old and having sacrificed my independence early (at 25) have a desire to travel and I don’t care about rocking the boat to make that happen.

I would love to hear some advice about the benefits of and good ways of grabbing hold again of control of our own circumstances and decisions!

Never take a woman fishing.

That’s a little idiom I learned way before I was Red Pill aware from the guy who was the best man at my wedding, and my long time fishing buddy. I wouldn’t call him a philosopher, but he was a keen observer of women’s behavior and became salt-of-the-earth wise by default:

“When you take a woman fishing you’re trying to include them in something they really don’t want to be doing, but you like it a lot. So you think ‘I like fishing and I want to include her in something we can do together’, but when you do she complains about EVERYTHING. ‘It’s dirty, I’m cold, I’m hot, I didn’t bring a water bottle, where’s the sunscreen?, there’s too many bugs, why are there so many bugs?, why do we have to hike so far to fish? can’t we just find a spot by the dam? where’s the bathroom?, etc. etc.”

“So what do you do? You force yourself to make her comfortable the whole damn time. You don’t hike, you don’t scout for the sweet spots on the river or, God forbid, you try to get her in a kayak. You end up going out after breakfast and the light’s all wrong. You try to keep them clean and close to the ‘potty’, you bait their hook ’cause it’s filthy, you untangle their reel snarls,…what you don’t do is fish. Your whole trip becomes about making her ‘like’ fishing with you and not about actually fishing and doing all the things we do when we fish together or on our own. I mean, you want ’em to like it, but you’ll never teach them to like it because you’re too busy making everything right for ’em.”

“Unless they were brought up right and they dig fishing ’cause their Dad taught ’em to like it, never try to bring a woman fishing. They gotta come to liking it on their own, they gotta want to do it on their own. I mean, look at Dodge (our dog) he don’t care if it’s cold or 4am, he’s happy to be on the trail going wherever the fuck we’re headed.”

Back in May Zelscorpion tweeted a few of the pictures from this series and made an interesting point:

https://twitter.com/Zelcorpion/status/599493741573971969

I had to admit, he’s got a point and it reminded me of the sage words of my Best Man. I think one of the tragedies of men’s Blue Pill conditioning is the presumption that they must find a way, sometimes forcibly, to become more compatible with a woman. I wrote about the paradox of compatibility a while back:

It’s very entertaining for me to hear guys reason as to why they got into yoga, or my all time favorite, salsa dancing as some means of meeting girls. I mean really, if that’s the goal you choose to devote the precious few hours of your leisure time to then I suppose a guy ought to take up scrap-booking or zumba.

If you’re picking up a hobby in order to meet women all you’re doing is attempting to Identify with what you expect your idealized woman to appreciate. If you get into something for this reason it’s not a hobby, it’s a Buffer.

Successful men don’t chase success – success chases them. Women are going to expect you to have your own uncontrived, interests, passions and hobbies established before meeting them.

When I first began counseling men in my SoSuave days many times I’d read guys telling me, “Well if she’s not into the same things I am she’s just not the ‘right’ girl for me”, as if common interests were some criteria that would trump his sexual interests in a girl. Blue Pill idealism convinces men that the “right girl” will necessarily love doing the same things as himself, but the all too common Red Pill truth is that men will have their peak experiences in life alone or in the company of other men who share the passions and interests their wives simply have no interest in.

Peak Experience

I don’t subscribe to Maslow’s theories in whole, but I do think his Peak Experience idea has merit. There will be times and achievements in your life that will stand out as significantly memorable. It’s easy to point to the experiences that should be the most significant; a marriage, the birth of a child, a religious experience, a first kiss, a school graduation, etc., you get the idea – experiences that should be the standard fare in a romanticized, idealistic sense.

We tend to overblow these experiences because we think they should be something to etch in our consciousness; and if we don’t, well, then there must be something wrong with us for not appreciating their popular significance. Tragically it’s our negative experiences that have the most lasting effect on us; evolution has made pain something memorable so as to help us avoid potentially life-ending future experiences. But the events that should evoke lasting good memories, the ones we are taught should be significant, are often the ones we ruin with unrealistic expectations, or we build up only to have them not quite live up to the fantasy we make of them.

The Peak Experiences I’m talking about here aren’t planned, or are just loosely planned by necessity. Some of the most memorable events you’ll ever experience wont be ones that you had a forethought about. These are often the experiences we hope to recreate long after they occur, but prove impossible to really recapture. Much of what makes up our personal preferences in life come from these spontaneous Peak Experiences. Remember the first girl you got with? Remember that time when things aligned just perfectly for you to hit that hole in one?

One of the reasons I have such a passion for snowmobiles was due to a day I blew off work so I could go out for the entire day on a beautiful Lake Tahoe morning. I went on my own which is something I rarely did. It was a Wednesday so there was nobody on the trails. The snow was only a day old and I took my sled to the top of a place called High Meadows, but even this pristine place wasn’t high enough. I took off in the back country and got to the top of a peak that was as high as I dared to go alone. Once I got there I had a view of the lake that I imagine few people had experienced. Then I fell back on the seat of my sled and stared at a sky that was so blue I never thought of it in the same way again. I laid there for a long time just staring and thinking about life and living and God and the universe.

On my way down the hill I thought how cool it would be to bring Mrs. Tomassi up there so she could appreciate it too. I mean, why wouldn’t I want to share such an incredible Peak Experience with the woman I love; the woman I want to share my life with? To this day Mrs. T has only been on my sled about 3 times. She’s very self-cautious and doesn’t like the smell and sound of the engine. That might seem trivial, but no matter how much I can try to relate that experience or try to recapture it no one but myself will ever have that unique event.

Experience & Frame

When I look at the guy with his dog in these camping shots I can now appreciate them much more because I know he’s experienced that same uniqueness. When you plan an event with a woman, when you make efforts to bring her into an appreciation of something you enjoy the experience of you must remember that you are, in essence, negotiating for her genuine desire to do so.

Now, before I’m run up the flagpole for suggesting otherwise, yes I know that many men and women do in fact find pleasure in commonly held interests. I see women on the river fishing in waders and at Trout Unlimited events all the time. My point isn’t the interest itself, but rather the desire to participate in it. A lot of guys hold the belief that including their wife, girlfriend or even a girl they’re spinning as a plate in something they think she should enjoy will have the effect of bringing them closer. The inherent problem with this is the presumption that including her in it will lead to some new shared experience that will bond them both in a genuine way.

The problem with preplanned ‘date nights’ is the same problem men experience with trying to pull a woman into his Frame by insisting she take up one of his hobbies or passions; it’s contrived and feels disingenuous to her. The point of the experience becomes about her being involved in it and not the actual doing of whatever it is you do together. The vibe becomes one of him making and controlling that experience so it becomes something pleasurable for her to participate in rather than really finding some inherent reward from it due to genuine interest.

Thus you get guys who (figuratively) take their women fishing and the event becomes more about introducing her to it than actually catching fish. Guys get so caught up in controlling unpleasant variables for her that the real experience of fishing is something entirely different. They want that woman to feel the same joy he does in doing something intrinsically rewarding to him, but the truth of it is she must come to it on her own.

Always Maintain Your Individualism

And this leads us back, once again, to establishing and maintaining a positive, dominant and individualistic Frame with a woman. She must want to enter your reality for it to be a genuine desire on her part – you cannot lead her into it, she must enter it of her own volition. Spontaneity is the key. Whether it’s an ‘insta-date’ from a PUA perspective, or an unexpected twist of plans in your marriage, that woman must want to participate in that event, in that moment of her own accord.

A good test of genuine interest with a woman is less about how open she is to trying “your things” and more about how insistent she is instigating her own participation in them. The trap most Betas fall into is converting “his things” into “our things” and he compromises those previously rewarding experiences into a sideshow he hopes will bond he and his woman together.

In Male Space I made this point:

When the influence of feminine-primacy is introduced into social settings made up mainly by men and male-interests, the dynamics and purpose of that group changes. The purpose becomes less about the endeavor itself and more about adherence to the feminine-inclusionary aspect of that endeavor. It starts to become less about being the best or most passionate at what they do, and more about being acceptable to the influence of the Feminine Imperative while attempting maintaining the former level of interest in the endeavor.

A similar dynamic plays out when men try to open the Male Space of whatever it is they find individually enjoyable to the women they hope will share in his enthusiasm. One thing I learned very early on in my marriage was the absolutely vital importance of maintaining my individual identity apart from my wife.

The biggest mistake I made when I was involved in LTRs prior to meeting my wife was allowing myself to get caught up in the equalist idea that since both men and women were functional equals we should necessarily base our compatibility estimates on how alike we were in interests. Consequently I progressively began convincing myself that I found their interests fascinating, but in doing so I slipped into their Frame. I was too scared of losing a woman and was too necessitous to experiment with doing what I should have – insisting on maintaining my individual interests and maintaining my own reality for a woman to enter.

I was fortunate in that Mrs. T expected me to control the Frame from the start of our relationship. I’ll admit, at the time it was something very unfamiliar to me to have a woman expect me to prioritize my interests above her own, but the purpose of this was establishing a Frame she wanted to enter into. Today I adamantly insist on having a life that is apart from her, but she can enter into if she has a real interest in it. This blog is just one extension of that dynamic.

If you are to maintain a dominant Frame with a woman you must necessarily set your interests apart from her own. You must still insist on your individualized identity and the experiences that set you apart from her in order to maintain a reality in which she continually wishes to genuinely be a part of.

Ted had a great comment from last week’s thread that speaks to this:

I don’t expect my wife to be like a man with male interests. I expect her to be a human with human interests. Something deeper than pop culture anyway.

I know a little bit about a whole lot of stuff. I’m willing to chat about any number of subjects other than tech and politics. It just has to he something better than what’s on TV and the weather. I keep hearing women can do anything a man can, so let’s see some intellectual debate!

More often than not truths must be brought to women by men. It’s uniquely refreshing when women have the critical insight to look for truths, but it’s refreshing because it’s rare – and it’s refreshing when they seek them from a man who’s Frame she’s chosen to be a part of. One of the best aspects of the principle of Amused Mastery is that, if you actually have the mastery that comes from individualized experience, it makes maintaining a positive, dominant and enjoyable Frame much easier with the same woman.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

776 comments on “Never Take a Woman Fishing

  1. My wife tries to guilt me out of going hunting as often as I would like by huffing and puffing (passive aggressively) about how “I don’t know how I’ll be able to get everything with the kids done (with me gone) but I’ll figure it out somehow.” She also likes to pretend to that I didn’t mention that I had intended to go on a given day when I remind her that I’m leaving the next morning.

    Any thoughts on how to put a stop to these tactics?

  2. The problem I see is that women can afford to do this.

    If a woman has any SMV, and any interest in anything that a man might have interest in, as a man you are subject to competition from those men. If you are outdone in the single activity of her interest (at the time), she is going to ditch you for another man.

    Could be antiquing, cycling, martial arts, even hunting and fishing. Women can afford to be whining complainers about most activities, because they can find men who share an interest in the one thing they don’t hate. I suppose if you’re alpha stud who can keep her in your frame she will never complain, but for an AFC, it’s a tough time, since she can basically get away with her constant complaints in a way the man can’t.

  3. I remember buying a toy Tank to my nephew and a Barbie to his little sister, the boy, never paid attention to the Barbie, the little sister, wanted to check the Tank (while still holding the Barbie),she started screaming,yelling, wanting to check the Tank, when I let her check the Tank(after asking my nephew), she held it, check it around, and then she gave it back with indifference!.

  4. @Striver

    Keep in mind, a lot of women, especially high SMV women, are basically narcissists. They just presume when they come along on a trip with a man, that they’ll continue to be the center of attention. In fact many of them are probably basing their indignation at not being invited on the fact that there exist any activities where they can’t be the center of attention. It’s a rude awakening for some of them that men actually have interests other than women.

  5. @Dutchman

    The best way to put a stop to those tactics, is to ignore them in the first place. Most women will pull out all the stops to get you to stop doing what you want, alone; recognize that it’s a massive shit test and proceed accordingly. She’ll respect you more if you ignore her protestations and move forward with your plans. You’re communicating higher status and ignoring the implied threat in her actions.

  6. So, Rollo, do you object to meeting girls or do you have some religious objection to dancing? Is that why you won’t fuck standing up?

    Seriously, just because you don’t like something, don’t assume that most men won’t. I mean, it’s just so repellent to run your hands over women’s bodies, amirite?

    Last night a married broad and I were goofing around on the dance floor. She had her hands on my chest and was pushing me hard. I was backpedaling, flailing my arms and looking around at people, pretending to be helpless. Suddenly, I reversed course and dipped the broad so deep that her foot slipped, but I held her up. Doesn’t that kind of thing seem absolutely repugnant? I mean, dancing, Ugh!

    Dancing with women allows a man to DHV. Demonstrating (“Demonstrate, don’t explicate”) your ability to lead is manly, just as a woman demonstrating her ability to follow is feminine.

    1. So, Rollo, do you object to meeting girls or do you have some religious objection to dancing? Is that why you won’t fuck standing up?

      Where the fuck did this come from?

          1. “It’s very entertaining for me to hear guys reason as to why they got into yoga, or my all time favorite, salsa dancing as some means of meeting girls.”

  7. @Is This Thing On?

    “They will lower it until they get the divide by zero error they are looking for.”

    I’d say that has already been happening.

    And keeps happening over and over as they continue to run the equation over and over expecting a different result – Insanity error.

  8. Tragically it’s our negative experiences that have the most lasting effect on us; evolution has made pain something memorable so as to help us avoid potentially life-ending future experiences.

    Bullshit. Negative memories quickly become vague and fade quickly. I still remember my first feeling of security when I was three sitting in my Daddy’s lap.

  9. A real woman interest thing that I’m fascinated by is the dress-up for going out. She may start 90 minutes early, dancing in front of the mirror, choosing clothes – her mood is almost better during the preparation than during the actual thing. I love sitting on the bed, doing whatever, watching the process.

  10. @Dutchman

    I cosign what MikePhil said. It is a shit test. First rule of shit tests is recognize that it is a shit test. Then respond appropriately–always without emotion–with appropriate married man game tactics and carry on in your pursuit. That is not to say you should not bring out the beta when it is actually a “comfort” test when her mother dies or she has back surgery, or the kids need your attention because she is passive-agressively taking her frustrations out on them.

  11. I am in full agreement with the title of this post. When I go dancing for work (to get stories), I don’t take Mrs. Gamer along because having her along would ruin it.

  12. I disagree with the guy that said “grow up” to guy that wanted to go on travel. If he does not travel, he is giving up frame. The kids, as Rollo notes, are used to change frame and a tool to undermine Fathers/Men. If he wants to travel he should. He can leave wife and kid behind. Liz is a woman and her opinion means nothing on being a man.

  13. “Oh I always go anyway. I just get tired of the bullshit.”

    @Dutchman

    If it was me I would just make sure she had advanced notice. If she pulls the guilt trip on you tell her that it’s bullshit and you don’t want to hear it anymore. Then when you get back in a good mood tell her that you had fun.

  14. @theasdgamer

    So, Rollo, do you object to meeting girls or do you have some religious objection to dancing? Is that why you won’t fuck standing up?
    Seriously, just because you don’t like something, don’t assume that most men won’t. I mean, it’s just so repellent to run your hands over women’s bodies, amirite?

    I’ve been Salsa Dancing for 10+ years now and I can admit it was a buffer. It’s not a buffer now and I still do it, but it was one for me at one point. I still prefer social dancing scenes to bar/club scenes by far, as usually there is a direct expectation of male-female interaction as opposed to rampant female display-but-do-not-touch of the club scene.

    It *was* a crutch for me at one time. That said it probably did help me from going nuts from lack of female contact at one point. At this point, it’s more of a checkbox when I meet women, “Oh, you can dance?” Their eyes usually tell a story of increased low-level interest when they hear that.

  15. @LeeLee

    October 21st, 2015 at 8:49 am

    “I enjoy being taught by my husband a lot, and it’s something that makes me feel very attracted to him, but it should definitely be an occasional thing. I like when he’s having some kind of emotional moment over football that I can’t fathom and he explains what’s happening to me.

    I can imagine that being taught to fish by him would be sexy, but ideally it would be a in a moment specially created for me to learn from him, not for me to be initiated into fishing for real.

    I like visiting his world.

    -Visiting- being the keyword. I don’t want football to actually become a part of my world too. I like that there are parts of him that are far away and different from me. Having separate worlds is an important part of maintaining interaction”

    Oh no now…don’t venture outside yourself too much… it’s just too big a scary man’s world now isn’t it….must stay in that little safety bubble… don’t grow up… don’t want to know too much… or maybe someone may expect you to know something… or actually get something done that is beneficial… or productive… you may be expected to do something… you may have to be %!@#&! OMG RESPONSIBLE!!!??? … horror of horrors! ..it could be for real…

    Never mind. Go back to your gossip, or your scrapbooking, or facebook, or twitter, or the “e” channel, or Dr. Phil of Shit, or whatever makes you happy…

    We just cannot handle too much reality can we?

  16. If you’re picking up a hobby in order to meet women all you’re doing is attempting to Identify with what you expect your idealized woman to appreciate. If you get into something for this reason it’s not a hobby, it’s a Buffer.

    Do I need to clarify?

  17. ” … it’s just too big a scary man’s world now isn’t it….?

    What if the perfectly honest answer is “yes”?

  18. Not white knighting here, but I liked that Lee Lee knew her place as a woman. Why would we expect her to join a man’s world? Isn’t that half the problem?

    I mean why hate on her for that?

  19. AF – BB

    One mans trash is another mans treasure.

    Some men like fishing for fishing’s sake for sport – catch and release.

  20. “You paired salsa dancing with yoga.”

    I’ve studied yoga – with a bunch of 80 and 90 year old men from India, yet I did not take offence at the bias.

  21. @NBTM: There is a historical report of a Chinese sage who eventually removed the hook from his line, because catching a fish interrupted his fishing.

  22. “Tragically it’s our negative experiences that have the most lasting effect on us; evolution has made pain something memorable so as to help us avoid potentially life-ending future experiences.”

    Bullshit. Negative memories quickly become vague and fade quickly. I still remember my first feeling of security when I was three sitting in my Daddy’s lap.

    And if you want a link,

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200306/past-perfect-why-bad-memories-fade

    The linked article described how all bets are off if one is mildly depressed. And I surmise that a child that touches a stove is mildly depressed after getting burned by it. I rarely see men here that aren’t depressed after getting fucked over by following the blue pill narrative and getting burned by it. Negative experiences do in fact register with those that don’t have your self-volunteered emotional deficiencies from a simple twist of fate in embryonic development (autism). No offense intended, I’m generally unemotional by choice.

    I personally have never been depressed, nor significantly fucked over emotionally by women but I do feel the pain of those men that have been.

    I also wrote this in my father’s eulogy:

    “I still remember my first memory of dad. November 24th, 1963. Sunday.

    I was 2 ½ years old. I sat in the new-to-us ****** avenue living room (we just moved in in September that year), eating donuts and watching President Kennedy’s funeral caisson travel from the White house to the Capital with the rider less horse and the only sound low drum beats. It was a 12 inch red plastic TV. I remember Dad was calm cool and collected that day. He and Mom and Jeff and I were ensconced in what turned out to be our ideal house, in our ideal neighborhood watching the aftermath of a tragedy.

    Despite the national grief and the political turmoil of the 60’s, I remember the feeling of comfort and security my Dad provided. That was the tone he set for my brothers from then on.”

    That comfort didn’t carry over when real-life negative experiences intervened in the next 52 years.

    And negative experiences do leave a mark on most men.

  23. @theasdgamer

    October 21st, 2015 at 2:10 pm

    “You still dissed lead-follow dancing by implication. You paired salsa dancing with yoga”

    ….And logically, because all such dancing is feminine primary. All romantic dancing is born of feminine primacy ideology.

    Masculine primary dancing involves “war dance”, “fire dance”, “rain dance”, “buffalo dance”.

    All humane dance from the beginning of history begs what it symbolizes. Romantic dance begs courtship of love culminating in sexual intercourse. Modern western romantic dance including salsa is mans begging for pussy. Women are not nearly as turned on by a good dancer as they are by more masculine traits.

  24. @SJF

    Also, keep in mind that while the memory itself may fade, the adopted behaviors of self-protection from negative experiences usually last a lifetime.

    My father was put into a powerboat at night to watch So.Cal fireworks when he was a kid. He got seasick, so his parents told him to go below. He puked. He has hated boats and boat related activities ever since.

    The memory itself may be lost, the impact usually isn’t. If it were not so, chronic psychological trauma would be *easy* to diagnose, it would just involve having everyone list all their negative experiences in life, and map out the adapted behaviors they created to deal with them.

  25. I am convinced that a decent percentage of commenters here, and I am speaking of the men, regularly make two mistakes:

    1. They do not read the entire essay.
    2. They do not read with the goal of understanding your essay. i.e. they read it quickly, do not spend any time thinking about the content, and just immediately comment with whatever their first thought may be.

    =/

  26. @SJF – “Bullshit. Negative memories quickly become vague and fade quickly. I still remember my first feeling of security when I was three sitting in my Daddy’s lap.

    And if you want a link,

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200306/past-perfect-why-bad-memories-fade

    Do you believe everything pop culture sells you?

    Do you believe everything the presstitutes tell you?

    Does academic pontification supersede common sense?

    Do you expect me to have forgotten all my worst memories?

    What taught you to ride a bike, your dad who is still holding the seat or your skinned elbow and knee?

    What taught you to drive a car, wonderful feelings about imagining never making a mistake the fear of damaging something and embarrassing yourself?

    What do you think teaches best, happy cuddly warm safe memories of imagined security of real failure?

    1. There’s a very well documented psychological phenomenon called Food Aversion. It’s essentially a conditioned response to an unconditioned stimuli – you eat something that made you sick and you avoid that foodstuff in the future no matter what even though, rationally, you know you just ate a bad piece of chicken once, or your parents fought in front of you while you ate Mac & Cheese as a child.

      The bad experience becomes limbically associated with the smell and taste of that food, to the point that it makes your body react (nausea, sweating, etc.) when you come into contact with it.

      This is a negative experience your subconscious believes it has a survival-level association with. It’s a very pragmatic, efficient evolution in higher order animals.

      I could also make the case that PTSD and how its associated, but irrational, fears generated by negative experiences can be debilitating and linger on for a lifetime, but that doesn’t make for ‘good feelz’ pop-psychology clicks.

  27. “Note to self: Never to use metaphors online.”

    Heheh

    Because 20% of the readers will get it and the other half won’t.

  28. @David W

    “They do not read with the goal of understanding your essay. i.e. they read it quickly, do not spend any time thinking about the content, and just immediately comment with whatever their first thought may be.”

    Damn it David, I have sometimes resembled that comment.

  29. Yoga is pretty cool (for me) but I didn’t go do it to be around girls.

    In the origins of Yoga it was probably either exclusively male or male-dominated. I think it is in the West that Yoga is seen as a female activity.

    But I think ASDGamer that you do yourself a disservice by being offended with salsa dancing being. If you do it because you want to do it regardless of being a buffer no problem. That’s certainly how I was doing Yoga (or peeing sitting down, mind) – I don’t think Rollo is against any of those as long as you do it in your own Frame.

  30. “I am convinced that a decent percentage of commenters here, and I am speaking of the men, regularly make two mistakes:
    1. They do not read the entire essay.
    2. They do not read with the goal of understanding your essay. i.e. they read it quickly, do not spend any time thinking about the content, and just immediately comment with whatever their first thought may be.
    =/”

    Not sure I understand your point, but I didn’t read your whole comment either.

    Just playin’

    Not only do I read Rollo’s essays with the goal of understanding, I actually take notes. I’ll add comments from others here if they are fitting. I then make a list of questions related to what I just learned. I also make a list of examples in my life that fit the essay, as to prove to myself that it is true. I make a list of what I disagree with too, if that is the case. (usually not)

    Like today I learned that I shouldn’t take girls fishing, I shouldn’t do yoga, and I should only salsa dance if I am there for the dancing and not the chance to meet women.

    I also learned that people will take things out of context and attempt to apply it to their current state of mind, instead of attempting to understand the spirit of the communication.

    I suppose that is human nature, especially with painful topics and situations.

  31. “People have an inherent bias to view their experiences in a
    positive light,” says study author Richard Walker, Ph.D., assistant
    professor of psychology at Winston-Salem State University in North
    Carolina.”

    Do the apparent results directly reveal actual impetus? Or can the results be altered or masked by freewill? Do people report less memory of bad experiences because they remember them less or because they prefer not to re-experience them or for fear they will be shamed by affirming them?

  32. Concerning Crisis of Motive and salsa dancing.

    What is the perception of motive when salsa dancing is part of the feminine frame?

  33. “Like today I learned that I shouldn’t take girls fishing, I shouldn’t do yoga, and I should only salsa dance if I am there for the dancing and not the chance to meet women.”

    I hope you know this was a joke rollo.

    I’ve taken up hobbies and changed my routines to meet or better impress women. Running clubs, lifting, sunday morning grocery shopping, coffee shops before work, whatever.

    No motive crisis here, I do it to meet and (hopefully eventually lol) fuck women.

    My motive is to be more successful with women. That said, I sure wouldn’t do something I hate or wasn’t going to do already.

    It’s only a crisis of motive if you are lying about why you’re there.

    I do something I like and the chicks don’t dig it? Who cares? I like it.

    I do something I like and the chicks dig it? Win-win.

    I do something I hate and the chicks dig it? Crisis of motive.

  34. @SJF – Before my dad and stepmom’s divorce, we’d do those kind driving, family vacations. Camping often, I get it. 6 yrs old is entirely different from 7 months though. Having a car and a camper is entirely different than flying to Europe. Just the food, diapers and clothing for a 7 month old for 3 days could fill a backpack. Imagine your kid is gets an ear infection and you are trying to get the eardrops at midnight in Germany and you don’t speak German? Kid is screaming at the top of her lungs, your wife is losing it with worry, other guests complaining – I don’t have to paint a bleaker pic, do I? it’s always a bad idea to drag an infant around everywhere, as most new parents discover after the 3 month “we aren’t going to let this change us” period.

    I made this point particularly because I want to do some damage to a convention I see at times here which seems to say that it’s okay to be an asshole. Being dominant and not accepting BS from people does not mean being an asshole. In fact, if you have to resort to that often, you should consider that you are creating a frame nobody wants to be in – you will only end up with the people who are stuck with you and they will hate you. Because you are an asshole. Remember, that when you are being an asshole – you are being an asshole.

    I just went through an object lesson in this over the weekend. Hung with and took care of my niece/nephew from Fri night to Sun morning, ages 6 and 9.6 yr old nephew started off a nightmare. First off the hook conflict with him hysterical by 7:30 am. But I’ve been here before, and he’s not just doing it with me. He’s so out of line he gets thrown out of his soccer game later in the morning for being randomly violent with other kids.

    I stopped getting aggravated and instead focused on his world. I let him calm down, left, had a quick talk about how his actions have consequences but we all make mistakes. I tell him I got in trouble a lot when I was kid too, but he had to learn from it. I tell him he has to apologize to the coach and to the kid he knocked on his ass and he gets it. I then tell him it’s not going to ruin our day.

    We go to breakfast and in walks the kid he pushed down with his mom. I have him do a proper apology – including a promise to never do so again – and he sits down. Mom of kid is blown away. We are calm and collected, no drama. We get in the car and he does some other wise ass thing and I spin around and tell him. “Look, I’m not going to put up with this all day. You either stop arguing with me about every single thing that happens or I’m going to take you home and put you in your room for the rest of the day. We will not have you arguing and getting out of hand every 5 minutes about nonsense.”

    This was at 10 am. The rest of the day was a dream. Sis ended up going to a friends house. We ended up playing soccer, pushing him on the tire swing, catch and then watched too much “Clone Wars” on Netflix. Hearty stew for dinner. Carved some pumpkins we bought – and he was perfect. Obedient, calm, happy. I designed the rest of the day for him. Next morning he wakes up and runs to jump into bed and curl up with me.

    He did need to be cracked down on – his behavior problems are not new nor in any way just done with me. But what I got was that I was making my frame inaccessible. Dogs pay attention to me cuz I’m calm about my dominance with them – I just assert it without escalating.

    The key to dominance – which is absolutely necessary to maintain frame with a woman – is to make your frame enjoyable for her to be in, and the choice not to do so painful. You have to mean it. I’ve recently reframed my relationships with three women in my life in that way. 2 don’t know what to think and the third fucked me like a pornstar with no gag reflex last night.

    Being an asshole means you are trying to coerce someone to follow your lead – this is not what you want, even if you can make it work. You have to design a space in which compliance is required and exit is easy.

    Some might find this surprising given my lively and feisty back and forth here. Remember, words are all we have here – 70% of communication is nonverbal. It’s also so that in any setting, I don’t suffer idiocy or nasty motherfuckers if I don’t have to. And I don’t have to here. I don’t have to be nice to women just because they are women. I don’t have to be nice to some arrogance ponce because they are a client or in my network, trading on BS. I can just let the fur fly here – but I don’t do this in real life. I’m calculating and particularly these days, am strategic about when I get into conflict. But even then, I don’t escalate – there is almost no payoff for escalation – unless I want it escalated.

    Getting rid of the people who don’t like your frame is good for you. They are like barnacles slowing your progress but if you are truly Red Pill, you are becoming such an excellent man that people are getting in line to be in your frame. My frame is a gift and only for those I think are worth it.

    Just sayin’…

  35. Re bad memory fades!?
    I still remember the $180 dinner I paid for the cunt Pauline’s terrible BJ. That was 25 years ago. I still remember it every day.

    Re salsa dance!?
    First, I can’t stand the music.
    Second, the only Masculine Latin dance, is : TANGO.

    Re Yoga,,,Hummmmm,
    Go swimming instead.
    When a guy tells me , he does dancing/yoga ,for himself, reminds me when a woman,tells you, she wears yoga pants for herself , not because she wants to Seduce.

  36. Back to salsa and crisis of motive.

    In salsa dancing the men wear a uniform. All their suits are traditional and very similar, usually black, a few white. This is not so with the female outfits. They vary a lot in color, texture and somewhat in form. This is in contrast to the relatively boring male uniform. The female dress is universally sexually revealing, highlighting and enhancing the female dancers SMV. Male audience members intently watch for every glimpse of cleavage, tits or ass curve they can see.The male dancer prances and moves her around like she is a prize. This is a form of worshiping female sexuality. Female audience members regularly comment on the female dancers costume concerning how it makes her “look slutty” as they seek to disqualify her sexual competitiveness. They seek to compete psychologically for the position the female dancer exhibits. That position is a position of high SMV and relatively greater power. Concerning the male dancer…”anybody could be that guy”.

    As such, salsa dancing is feminine primary. So how can a man enter that frame without crisis of motive?

  37. With all due respect Scrib, your story doesn’t apply to the guy’s question about traveling. He enjoys traveling and should continue if it appropriate. He is not saying he isn’t being or doesn’t want to raise his kids. He wants to do something he enjoys. You seem to be saying he should give it up for the child[ren]. What is the next thing that wife wants him to give up for the child[ren]? Where does it stop? Your reasoning appears to be shaming and BP. Best Regards!

  38. No, Scribbler and it hurts if you make him apologize. Also note you being an asshole calmed him down.

    Someone over at Roissy’s quoted someone else: “I know many lonely nice guys, but I never saw a lonely asshole.” They may run away in anger at first, but they always come back. At least if they sense an opportunity to catch you on your nice side.

  39. Salsa Dancing.

    Lmfao.

    I learned to dance Salsa as a teen. I used to go to the Puerto Rican clubs in NYC and dance all night long trying to capture the ” sabor “. It was tedious and rewarding as hell all at the same time.

    Spending time in P.R. showed me that the mainland has a watered down version of Salsa. Today it’s even more dry to spread it’s popularity.

    Watching the older men in their panama hats dance Salsa ” old style ” is very, very different than a standard ” couple’s ” Salsa. Men break away from their partners and do various ” solo ” intermissions. Very masculine ( as much as dancing can be masculine – no disrespect asdgamer..) style and one that I pursue. It causes tingles.

    Funny that mentioning Salsa in a metaphoric situation caused pushback.

    Anyway…

    Women do experience life in a completely different way than men do. Rollo is on point that (some of them ) they can experience things in a different light if they are ” led ” by men. And some times they just cannot. Going back to Vetting momentarily, these are some of the things a man should vet for while dating. Dating MUST be about more than spending time and eating, watching movies or trying to get laid. I’m not saying don’t do those things, but you gotta test a chick to see if she offers anything more.

    A woman is like a guitar without strings. A man’s gotta string her and play her to see what he’s got. If you get satisfaction adjusting the neck and repositioning her bridge, great. But if you have to rebuild her and you still get shitty sound, cast her off to the next buyer.

    Okay. I’m no metaphorical genius. Fuck it.

    P.S.

    Fuck Kevin Powell.

    Washed up, attention seeking bullshitter. Now he will get interviews on CNN and be able to pay his light bill.

  40. “Also note you being an asshole calmed him down.”

    Scribbler is a self-admitted asshole. In his new, kinder and gentler form, he is still an asshole.

    But . . . there was nothing in his story that indicated any assholosity on his part. In the Brave New World “asshole” is any man that isn’t simply a damp and torn paper dishrag.

    It was the kid who was being an asshole. It was power that calmed him down.

  41. @SJF – Also, wrt your wife’s forgetfulness about important things, I think I was making a different point. I don’t know that forgetfulness and carelessness are necessarily correlated with intelligence. My Mom was a genius but lost her car keys 3 times or more a week.

    But your larger point is interesting in a couple of ways. The carelessness may well be an adaptive response to being looked out for. She simply knows things will be taken care of, it nor by you, by the next guy who’s willing to step in cuz your wife is a catch, and she knows it. I also wonder if this kind of “learned helplessness” is a way of dominating men, and other social situations?

    As for intelligence, this is of course an adaptive response species-wide and at the individual developmental level. I’ve read it speculated by evolutionary biologists that male intelligence is really just “run away selection” in that all the white matter is very costly to keep up (glycogen, temp, skull etc) but women select so in favor of intelligence that it just keeps getting reinforced genetically. That’s why our brains are 10% bigger and we have more white – or is it grey – matter.

    Individually, I’m sure some women realize there is a much bigger payoff in social endeavors and emotional exploits than learning about how things work and the larger world and don’t pursue intellectual aspects in life due to utility. And after all, being intelligent doesn’t make you more likely to be hit on by a the alpha dog either – there is less of a payoff for women.

    But it’s also true that I’m used to dealing with people of above average intelligence in my social and work settings, mostly men. There are many more smart men due to the way intelligence distributes among men and women are more likely to be of average intelligence. What’s weird is that I think some women have also adapted the ability to present themselves as though they are smart via signalling – what school they went to, how they dress and hold themselves, but didn’t bother with the actual being smart bit of the act. You can’t fake being a bookworm. Having read thousands of books in my life, someone who has’t finished a single non-fiction book since their graduation from college just isn’t going to be able to keep up with me in a conversation. They aren’t bad people, but they are just not that bright.

    I now calibrate more towards women in that I simply dumb down and slow down and only move on once they get it. I also tell them much less too, lol, and sometimes just don’t even bother to explain half the shit I used to. Most of them seem quite relieved by that development.

  42. Now we’re getting silly. Glenn isn’t saying a dad must “give up” travel again now that he’s popped out a puppy. Just that traveling ANY significant distance with a nephew (even a toddler who can walk) is way more work and bother than can possibly be imagined. It will be no fun for anyone, especially him. All he has to do is maybe short trips away for a weekend or so until the kid gets a bit bigger. Soon there can be the whole Cub Scout/Boy Scout thing, where the kid becomes part of the adventure. Also they are much more likely to remember it as such.

    And what Glenn did with his nephew is show why a Dad is not a Mom. He barked, made the kid own up to his bad deed, then calmed down, keeping frame the whole time (even whilst barking). Yeah, making the nephew apologize “hurt.” Hell to the yeah. That’s what punishment does. Beta Dads, go thou and do likewise.

  43. I think dancing originated in Africa, where MEN danced (in a masculine moves) to show their masculinity.

    The early feminists/girls , screamed : hey, we want to dance like that too , but instead of showing muscles, they showed their tits. It was “impowering”.

  44. @anotherlawyerwaistingtime

    “With all due respect Scrib, your story doesn’t apply to the guy’s question about traveling. He enjoys traveling and should continue if it appropriate. He is not saying he isn’t being or doesn’t want to raise his kids. He wants to do something he enjoys. You seem to be saying he should give it up for the child[ren]. What is the next thing that wife wants him to give up for the child[ren]? Where does it stop? Your reasoning appears to be shaming and BP. Best Regards!”

    Traveler guy originaly wrote:

    “Hi Rollo,
    On rereading Truth to Power a very inspirational post, I wanted to hear your thoughts on men with families such as my self choosing to travel on vacation alone.

    In your videos above you touched on masculine qualities men being in the driver seat around decision making. I have a wife you as with many women is cultured to try assume headship of the household with decision making even vacations etc.

    She doesn’t want to travel abroad as we have a 7 month old son where as I feel there is no reason why she should worry about doing so. Anyway the crux of the issue is I am only 28 years old and having sacrificed my independence early (at 25) have a desire to travel and I don’t care about rocking the boat to make that happen.

    I would love to hear some advice about the benefits of and good ways of grabbing hold again of control of our own circumstances and decisions!”

    Seems to be an inappropriate premise of only binary options going on in the guy’s question about traveling. Holding Frame does not equal having power. The traveler guys wife is throwing him a Beta tell.

  45. “Man,.. No comment on that trout? That thing was a fucking hog.”

    Anybody can swipe a pic of a fish from google. 😛 T’was a beauty. I’m not sure I could eat it.

  46. Good post.

    For those who kind of missed it:

    Men, you need to have something just for you at all times. You need to have a thing, a hobby, a pastime, a trip, a get together, that you go to without your wife, your GF, and/or your kids.

    I have this get together once a year with some fraternity brothers. We get together at our alma mater every year, at least once, and spend the weekend. What do we do? Whatever the fuck we want. We drink, we talk, we sleep in, we eat good food, we play golf, we walk around campus and see what’s new, we buy shit at the bookstore.

    It’s our trip; mine and my fraternity brothers. Wives and kids aren’t allowed. It’s just for us. I won’t ever give that up, either.

    If a man gives up something like this, that’s just for him, that is his and his alone, then he is giving up and giving in. He cannot do that, ever.

  47. Having mastery of a skill, usually propels that activity beyond just a “hobby” for most. Since most people have time for their career, family, and just a bit more extra time, fill it wisely and create value with that time where less value existed.

    With age, gaining mastery of anything has a rising time-relative opportunity cost. If for instance you have current mastery of an activity, that your partner shows interest in, they usually take one of three paths:

    1) Support Role: They believe in you, in part, because they see what success at that activity does to your spirit. However, they may remain disconnected even when exposed to it. Girls will be girls. > Flip side is they could always despise it, which usually means you’re with the wrong partner anyhow, or your frame re. it was non-cohesively established. Oh well.

    2) Active Participant: They begin to attend you in that activity because they realize they’re not #1, you are, and to spend additional time with you they’ll just have to deal with it and be unobtrusive in their attendance, so why not participate with a honest supporting basis? I.e. Lifer meathead at the gym whose girl tags along most sessions, yet maintains a solid physique of her own, just not extreme like his. This is often done because she lacks self-perceived identity. “Look at me, now I’m a crossfitter! My man is so sexy cross-fitting..” – type mindset. Most girls lead relatively boring lives so why not? > Flip side is she could be competing with you in her mind, and that competition to beat you at your own skill is a peripheral power grab which can later be used to lower your value, thus level the “playing field.” No thanks, women aren’t better than men.

    3) Emotionally Vested: Having had multiple management and supervisory roles in the past, one of the best methods I’ve used to keep people in line is remove their emotional focus at work about their lives, and redirect it into the process at hand. A women whose emotionally vested in an activity you have relative mastery of, is definitely there for the right reasons. She’s got the itch, because after all, you’re a badass at what you do. The value stream, from practice to performance, is evident to her by seeing enjoyment in your success occur to you, and she’s genuinely happy for you, and simultaneously enthused to do the activity herself, for her own enjoyment. With both parties acting on their own merit, a natural deeper bond could occur. Two people in parallel experiencing Maslow’s self-actualization stage at the same activity are likely to create a unique bond. Flip side is she starts to act, and become, “one of the guys” in context to that activity.. which isn’t all that attractive.

    Even in the best case scenario, I feel it’s still imperative to maintain separation or you’re surrendering a bit of your potential, on the field, or at the homestead.

  48. @ScribblerG

    “Also, wrt your wife’s forgetfulness about important things, I think I was making a different point. I don’t know that forgetfulness and carelessness are necessarily correlated with intelligence. My Mom was a genius but lost her car keys 3 times or more a week.

    But your larger point is interesting in a couple of ways. The carelessness may well be an adaptive response to being looked out for. She simply knows things will be taken care of, it nor by you, by the next guy who’s willing to step in cuz your wife is a catch, and she knows it. I also wonder if this kind of “learned helplessness” is a way of dominating men, and other social situations?”

    You are correct. I did change the subject/point of discussion. And your second paragraph is what I was implying. I used to tell her that the losing thing was intentional on her part, but of course she had no idea what I was implying. I was implying a learned helplessness in order to dominate and an attempt to keep solipsistic frame in general.

  49. Ok I can’t get off the salsa. My soap box runneth over..

    How many women are dying to fuck a salsa dancer?
    How many women are dying to fuck a yoga teacher?
    How well do those vocations pay?

    Do masculine things and women will be attracted.

    How many men are sincerely interested in “being a good dancer” compared to the number who are really interested in other things traditionally masculine?

    “Leading” on a dance floor does not = leading in life.

    Who do you think gets more pussy, a professional ball player or a yoga instructor? A race car driver or a cooking instructor? A house framer or an art instructor? Work out, develop yourself as a man. Do the things you want to do, that you naturally want for yourself. If you aren’t, then who is leading who?

    Who gets more pussy and is more desirable, the man who develops himself because he passionately wants to for no other reason than he enjoys himself and the reality of being male or the man who is passionately trying to qualify himself to gain permission?

    There are certain endeavors that are inherently predominately feminine. “Salsa” is one. Unless you just happen to love salsa regardless, which is highly unusual for a man, then you shouldn’t waste your time. When you sign up for salsa to “find a woman” you enter her frame and by doing so you sacrifice the frame you should be building and maintaining.

  50. Women don’t like dancing for the sake of “dancing”. A woman wants to dance is because:
    1, a narcissist little princess, wants an extra dose of narcissism, given for free by an adoring orbiter.
    2, The swirling, which makes her feel like a self-centered ballerina .

  51. @ Fred – Thanks for doing my light work…Funny how this shit is really triggering lots of guys on this thread.

    I may have owned up to being an asshole here but I think I was still kind of misguided when I said that. I’m actually a good guy most of the time. The one who’s fun at the party, the one who gets along with your new friend, who doesn’t mind changes in plans and rolls with the punches. I like to have a good time and hate drama. I always have a plan and can also just chill out. People enjoy me and seek out my company.

    But what I don’t do is tolerate nonsense. I used to be uncomfortable about being that way, i used to shame myself for it. This caused even more inner turmoil and charged my emotions. Now? When I come down on someone, I don’t escalate or let emotions go to high pitch. I also do not escalate when it’s not in my interest to do so. I like to sort out idiots and fucktards though. I will tell people unbelievable shit to their faces sometimes. It’s really remarkable what happens when you speak truth to an adult who’s out of line without getting emotional. Talk about reframing…

  52. When you dance, a man can learn if a women will follow and a woman can learn if a man will lead.

    Yoga is useful for correcting deficites in flexibility. As like most things, Yoga Masters in India are almost always male. Men who do yoga for honest reasons are doing it because it is challenging and they are correcting a weakness. Women mostly do it so they can look hot in their yoga pants. 🙂

    If you’re doing either just to meet women, then go ahead and be offended by what Rollo said.

  53. Infants are natural, actual, honest to god assholes…

    Why the fuck would you want to travel that far with an actual asshole?

    They have lots of power, because if you don’t give them what they need, THEY DIE.

    Wait until they can walk. A walking kid is far more enjoyable than one that isn’t…like night and day.

    “Honey, we are going to go on this trip and have fun! Yes, we are bringing that miniature size asshole with us! You’re gonna have fun anyway!”

    Seems like bad frame to me.

  54. @Rollo

    “Man,.. No comment on that trout? That thing was a fucking hog.”

    Beauty… I’m heading out at first light this Friday for the start of rainbow trout steelhead season, these fish are absolutely gorgeous and put up a hell of a fight.

    This post was at a good time, two of my plates wanted to always go fishing with me but I would never take them cause I just wanted to fish alone or with my brother.

    The plate I have right now is pretty cool, I caught a chinook salmon two weeks ago and made some fillet strips and took it over to her place, she marinated it and cooked us dinner, damn that felt good (catching a fish and having her cook it for me). There was a lot of fillet so we tossed the rest in her freezer, she’s going to cook another dinner with a different recipe.

    It’s funny though, with all my plates, whenever they hear how passionate I am about fishing they always want to tag along or have me take them but I always tell them “No girl has ever gone fishing with me” or “I have never taken a girl fishing” with a smirk, their eyes light up, almost as if they want me to ignore their request and tell them no.

    Tight lines brah.

  55. Women mostly do it so they can look hot in their yoga pants.

    I was walking with my boys earlier this summer down by a local park and there was a bunch of women in a yoga class. We watched for a minute and started clapping. They seemed to like it.

  56. Fred,
    You are being silly and missing the larger issue. As another writer noted, it isn’t a binary option. In her Frame it is ie she & kid goes or no one goes. It is not binary option. In any event, it is his family and he is the family and can decide as he wishes. Best Regards

  57. “Men who do yoga for honest reasons are doing it because it is challenging and they are correcting a weakness.”

    Yoga is meditation to correct weaknesses of the mind, sometimes at the cost of doing permanent damage to the body. Calisthenics based on modern anatomical knowledge are the correct way to correct physical weaknesses.

  58. Hope you applied catch and release on that trout. Wouldn’t want oneitits to set in.

    I grew up fishing. Dad was drafthorse beta but an outdoorsman who pressed into my brother and I the merits and necessity of a certain mastery of the environment. This is well before the REI/NorthFace ponytails made everything into just one more status-whoring consume-and-display activity. Digress.

    Mom fished with dad before us kids came along. But that was due to courtship. And a strong blue pill mindset. They were poor. My dad was always outdoors doing stuff. It was about time together. Once us kids came along, she rarely participated unless it was part of a family-wide facilitated experience managed 100% by my dad.

    But she never went with him out deep sea fishing. Of course she would complain about being left behind, despite her hatred of water, seasickness, and strong preference for creature comforts. It was always about control. I could see this as a kid. She wanted to run him. He let her, but held a couple of select activities out of reach.

    But even this approach is inadequate. Sanctuaries are temporary without Frame control. Over time, each breach into those male activities, each confrontation over the value/priority of such, erodes the defenses until there is a beachhead. Then it quickly becomes evident that it is a battle of attrition that he will not win.

    And so its the chair in the family room and the TV. One of the saddest things about my childhood was watching my dad’s outdoor-oriented masculinity, his only sanctuary, atrophy before my very eyes. The rest took only a few years.

  59. NBTM
    Damn…again with the Salsa?

    ” Who gets more pussy and is more desirable, the man who develops himself because he passionately wants to for no other reason than he enjoys himself and the reality of being male or the man who is passionately trying to qualify himself to gain permission?

    There are certain endeavors that are inherently predominately feminine. “Salsa” is one. Unless you just happen to love salsa regardless, which is highly unusual for a man, then you shouldn’t waste your time. When you sign up for salsa to “find a woman” you enter her frame and by doing so you sacrifice the frame you should be building and maintaining.”

    I agree with most of what you say, but…

    ” Who do you think gets more pussy, a professional ball player or a yoga instructor? A race car driver or a cooking instructor? A house framer or an art instructor? Work out, develop yourself as a man. Do the things you want to do, that you naturally want for yourself. If you aren’t, then who is leading who?”

    My philosophy is do all things if possible.

    I’ve gotten a fair amount of pussy ( unexpected ) dancing Salsa. Your perception of it being feminine is incorrect. Maybe we are looking at different scenarios as I’m not speaking of people ” learning Salsa ” via lessons or something like that.

    I’ve raced and I cook. I haven’t framed an entire house, but I am handy with tools and wood, and I am an artist.

    These things do indeed come to me as things I want to do naturally. I will not live long enough to master all of the things I would like to because I have wide ranging and varied interests. Nothing is impossible.

    I don’t know about others motivations, but I can assure you that not all men do things to qualify to others, male or female. I’m anti-that-shit.

    Yes, men should develop themselves always. I just think that a huge part of that development should include an open mindedness and curiosity.

  60. @LH – Let me clarify. I was dominant and intense when I told my nephew what would happen but what worked is that he knew I meant it, I was going to take him home and toss him in his room and leave him there for the day and he knew it. I was not being and asshole or nice, I was being firm and stern. An asshole is the adult who screams back louder and makes threats or complains about how upset they are getting or shames the kid. I did none of those things.

    Also, the apology was not about punishing him. One of the things I explained to him when we had our short talk about his behavior was that if he kept doing this, his friends wouldn’t want to play sports with him. That he’d get in trouble at school and on the field and would not be allowed to play. That he would get the reputation of being a bully and that people would not like him for being that way. It was funny, his eyes widened when I was describing this to him. I asked him, “Is that what you want?” He said no and I asked him what he needed to do. He suggested apologizing to the kid,and when I asked who else, he brought up apologizing to the coach.

    He handled the apology like it was a good thing for him to do. Context is decisive. I’m teaching him social intelligence, not beating him into submission. I’m talking to him about how to get what he wants out of life, not making him “be good”. Red Pill training – that’s what I’m all about with him.

    Make any sense?

  61. Caveat: As I have noted previously, range of motion within the physical limits imposed by the skeleton actually are a “weakness” of mind, to protect you from harm. Don’t stretch, relax. Do so within the range of motion of properly performed calisthenics. Have patience and don’t push, it will take while to change your mind about your acceptable range of motion.

    Yoga often exceeds the limits imposed by the skeleton, but the chippy at the mall won’t mention that.

  62. @waisted lawyer: No one here is saying there’s a binary. All we are advising travel dad is where the line in the sand is best drawn. If wifey is just being sensible – let’s not travel with an infant – that is one thing. If wifey is saying we have kids so we can never travel again – THAT needs sorting out. Same as what I called “Isn’t it time you grew up and get over this?” Yes then there will have to be a family meeting no doubt. Bring popcorn.

  63. @Blaximus

    Damn…again with the Salsa?

    I’ve barfed up enough salsa for at least one post so no more left.

    I agree about open mindedness and curiosity. They are crucial. If it weren’t for those, none of us would be here on this blog and we probably wouldn’t progress at anything worthwhile. They make us open to change which is sort of the vehicle of development.

  64. @kfg,
    Loved that video (I almost uploaded something like that), I’m afraid, feminists will try to feminize that dance too, it’s too violent. Then feminize fishing!.

  65. @Blaximus

    “… I’d still get pussy if I sold vegetables by the side of the road. It’s about mindset man”

    Would you be selling vegetables or sausage?

  66. Fred,
    When you rely on or use insults it shows a weakness in your argument. Again my friend, you are missing the larger picture. Look at Frame. Rollo had an excellent post on this. Please refer back to it. You may rely on insults but being a rational male it doesn’t effect my opinion that your reasoning is flawed. Best Regards

  67. @kfg,

    I believe the sum of all benefits of yoga are beyond the scope of this blog. Forgive me simplifying to the most comonly accepted view of it.

    That being said, men do it for its genuine benefits as do some women. The flock of whores doing it in front of the big glass window open to the mall are doing it to look hot in their yoga pants.

  68. I call myself a “duncing furry” and you’re insulted?

    You that sensitive in court when a judge dumps on you?

    Don’t even see the insult, so I won’t try to address. (“Bring popcorn”)? Thanks for shaming. Troll someone else. We will not speak again.

  69. @Cave – “Infants are natural, actual, honest to god assholes…” – Just about spit my coffee through my nose on this one. Made me giggle and smile, man did I need it! Indeed, they are completely dependent and will escalate any conflict to hysteria at the drop of a hat.

  70. Speaking of bowls of dicks…

    I’ve often wondered what it would look like if you made a pile of dildos in front of a chick…one for each actual dick she has had.

    How big would that pile be?

    Or maybe if chicks had like a dick odometer reading somewhere.

    Shit, this one has gone to three digits…

    A dickometer.

  71. @scribbler: To clarify first I wasn’t criticizing you for being dominant with him when you calmed him down. It was too much for you, you are the dominant one and he actually needs your dominant frame to calm him down. Your tipping point is the point he will remember as the limit to what he can do and so he learns how far he can go.

    It sounds less bad if it was his idea to apologize. I still don’t think it was a good idea though. The teacher excluded him from playing and he will learn the lesson from it. No need to make him overly afraid of pushing his boundaries. The bully isn’t dumb, remember. “Betaworld” only likes to paint him that way,

  72. I have a 100% conviction, women don’t even like their own hobbies and interests, whatever dedication they have, can be dumped according to feelz.
    I think, that is why, they don’t understand men’s dedication to hobbies and activities.

  73. The comments and the wide ranging discussion make this place truly great!

    Chiming in:

    Travelling with infants/small children – Started traveling with my daughter at 4 months. And everything you’ve heard from @liz and @scribblerg is correct. Infants are assholes and they require 10 times their bodyweight in stuff to go anywhere. That being said, if you’re determined to do it – do it. Just be sure you understand the type of trip you are getting. If you’re looking for an intellectually stimulating and relaxing, leisurely tour of art museums and historic architecture of Europe, forget it. None of that shit is stroller friendly. And book a multi-room suite, eating your expensive room service dinner in a hotel bathroom because you got the baby to finally stop acreamjng and go to sleep, isn’t as cool as it sounds. But like Liz said, you can laugh about it after the fact and treasure the memories and that can be its own reward. It’s all in how you come at it.

    As for women and our hobbies & interests: we men need to do what we love for us and nobody else but us. If it gets you chicks, status, joy, intellectual stimulation, exercise, camaraderie with your friends – do it and don’t look back and don’t ever apologize for it. And don’t ask your woman “if it’s okay” or say that “she lets me do this” ESPECIALLY when your hobby/interest pre-dates her.

    We need to do what we need to do. If you got children, share what you love with them. Even if they don’t take to it, let them experience your love for it.

  74. @kfg : which yoga moves are dangerous in exceeding the limits of the skeleton?

    P.S. I think we are getting a bit side-tracked here with the salsa and yoga (which I maintain is not a female-centric activity, it wasn’t so historically before it took off big in the U.S. I think).

    I know that cooking gets a free pass (particularly if it is grilling meat),
    I would say that even knitting or similar activities would be ok for a RP male, as long as he does them in his frame and genuinely enjoys them. But maybe I’m still too Blue Pill to know better!

  75. I would argue that men today are picking up the slack from the modern women who doesn’t seem to do anything other than try to be a man these days. Need a good meal. Learn to cook. Need a shirt repaired? Learn to sew. It’s very pragmatic in a male sort of way.

    I know several men that have taken over many typical feminine tasks. Universally the response is “this shit is easy”.

  76. Jack Jack,
    I agree that it is for him to decide; not a bunch of dudes and a chick on the interweb to tell him what to do. What’s more BP? Now the counter argument is that he did ask for advice so Scrib et al gave there opinion traveling with children. I disagree that it is a binary option: her & kid or none, which seems to be the options she gave him. There are other options: give kid to Scrib or Fred for week, go it alone, take kid and leave wife. My opinion is that traveling with kids ain’t that bad. Point is there are more options. I have 5 and enjoyed our family trips.
    Another indicator of poor logic or lack of a sound argument is to cut off a discussion. True is true; arguing with a brick wall or exchanging insults serves no purpose. Again, I was only pointing out false arguments. Best Regards

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