The Nature of Power

From Truth to Power:

Real Power is the degree to which a person has control over their own circumstances. Real Power is the degree to which we control the directions of our lives.

Are women attracted to Power? Yes. Why? Because a man who has it is in control of his own circumstances (to the best of his ability). People need to be reminded of this because we tend to think of power as some tyrannical dominance over others. Sometimes power is exercised as such, but that’s not what defines real power.

There exist a set of Beta men who hold this idea because it fits into their self-loathing binary understanding of intersexual dynamics. On my Incels post comment thread there’s a conversation with a 25year old guy who considers himself an Incel and his self-awareness is one that he’s hopeless to be anything else. He believes he has no power and therefore nothing a woman would ever want from a man. As he persists in this belief he’s not wrong.

I’m proud of my commentariat for giving this guy some kind of hope and inspiration, but according to the Black Pilled set all they’re doing is setting him up for failure and disappointment. Because if he attempts to empower himself he’d just be making himself a more efficient pussy-beggar and or/setting himself up for more failure. The game is rigged so stop playing it, right? And even if he had the kind of access to women he wished for ‘the juice isn’t worth the squeeze’ is the circular logic, and he’d only be a failure from within a success – or something like that.

The old saying goes, ‘Everything is about sex, except sex; sex is about power’. But what is ‘power‘? The degree to which a person has control over circumstances that would otherwise govern their lives. But power is always measured by how it fits into a particular context, so in this instance that power is a control over sexual experience, gratification and ultimately reproduction. And really, this is the basis of how Hypergamy has become the socialized, prime-directive that is gynocentrism. What is the latent purpose of a feminine-primary social order? Empowering women to unilaterally control their reproductive circumstances and then as much of their own lives as follows that imperative.

Power is one aspect of attraction (sometimes arousal) for women. I would also say, by this definition, that power is an aspect of a man being Alpha, but it isn’t the only aspect. I can point to a lot of men who have no real power, influence, affluence or even social proof who nonetheless pull women and have women pull him because they have a look that fit a woman’s sexual ideal and/or had an Alpha mindset. I have been that guy.

Power is not a prerequisite for being Alpha, but the appearance of, the potential for, power certainly is. Remember, women are hardwired to seek out competency in men as part of their innate need for security in all its forms. This is why I make the distinction between power being ‘attractive’ to a woman (in the long term Beta Need side of Hypergamy) and not always an element in arousal – though when paired with an arousing man power is intoxicating for women sexually.

The appearance of, or potential for, real power in a man represents competency in his capacity to control the circumstances that would dictate the terms of his life. If a woman is to ultimately pair monogamously with a man, his access to power will ultimately dictate the terms of her life while paired with that man. So it follows that power would be a selected-for aspected of female attraction.

This is probably pretty remedial. “Duh, chicks dig power Rollo.”

Power is a part of that Alpha ideal, but the question to ask is why is power attractive to a woman? This is where militant MGTOWs and Black Pill nihilists show their colors. Most will say it’s because they want control or some parasitic association with a powerful man to further their own ends. In essence it’s about a need to control their circumstances by using a male proxy to exercise their own self-serving plans. It’s all very melodramatic until you pick apart the latent purposes of female power.

From an evolutionary perspective, what these guys think is “power” is really just social dominance, preselection and a good physique. That’s why they’re obsessed with the “Chad” archetype that bullied them in high school. That guy seems “powerful” and made a lasting impression on them because he effortlessly got women and reminds them of what they’re not. Whether or not the guy is genuinely ‘powerful’ in the sense that he’s in control of his own destiny is irrelevant – he has the appearance of what these guys think power should look like and he’s rewarded with pussy for it.

So, what to do? Do the same shit feminists do; change the game and try to convince everyone that they are the real deal and the world that they figured out (really constructed) on their own is the ‘real’ game everyone ought to be playing. Unless you’re Thundercock the Barbarian, which you never are, all you’re doing is trying to be like him, which amounts to you accruing ‘power’, (however they define it) no matter how self-interested you think you are, with the sole purpose of giving it away to a woman – which she will use to more completely own you, because, that’s “just how women are.”

Feminists do the same thing from their own base of interest. They cannot compete for Darwinistic reproductive success with women whose SMV outclasses their own.

Solution: Change the game to suit their lesser capacity to compete; embrace fat-positivity, shame men for their innate sexual choices and expressions, disqualify hot women by disempowering and stigmatizing their strengths. Ban Grid Girls, cheerleaders on TV and remove the swimsuits from Miss America.

All of these are adaptive strategies for increasing reproductive success. The problem is nature confounds these efforts over and over again. The idea is to change the rules of the game; to literally control the reality and context in which it’s played in order to make the ones changing it the superior players. Rather than find the cheat codes to play the existing game in ‘God Mode’ the idea is to just rewrite the game to suit their skills.

Ostensibly, the cover story of feminism has always been about some effort to achieve an idealized state of equality between men and women. This has never been the actual case, but even if we were to presume that this equality was tenable it still requires the players to ignore their strengths and weaknesses in playing the existing game and pretend that a new game, based on contrived rules, is now the true game. The problem is they can never get everyone to participate in the new game. The fact remains that we evolved to compete in a naturalistic game and most people instinctively get this reality even when they espouse a belief in the new game.

Beautiful women will aspire to a feminist-contrived norm, but on a root level of consciousness they understand that their beauty and sexuality puts them above their less beautiful sisters. This again is a form of power. It provides them a control advantage over their life circumstances and their hindbrains wont allow any pretense of a level playing field stop them from exercising it.

End Games

The same principle applies to the ends of MGTOW. I’m not even sure what the consensus is as to what an idealized outcome between the genders might be for a MGTOW mindset. Every time I’ve tried to parse out what happens when enough men go MGTOW that society shifts I’m usually met with some equalist future where women ‘come to their senses’ and take responsibility for their own actions. That and crypto currencies seem to be what the future MGTOW utopia looks like.

I’m not being flippant here. I’m genuinely curious as to what the end state of a MGTOW society ought to look like. Feminists seem to think that egalitarian equalism and gender neutrality, and a world where men and women are coequal agents is a future that’s possible. I’ve read the comparisons of feminism with Marxism and it’s not too far off with regard to their stated future hopes. I don’t buy any of it of course. It’s been proven over and over that feminism is a supremacism movement, but I’m interested in what the hopes are for the the cover story of feminism.

I wonder the same about MGTOW. Both MGTOW and feminism are ultimately interested in power – in the respect that power is the control over the individual circumstances that govern our lives. MGTOW make it very clear that dealing with women is an unacceptable risk (by order of degrees) and that until such time as the risks diminish to an acceptable tolerance they’ll simply ‘go their own way’ and avoid potentially dangerous entanglements with women. Sounds perfectly logical in a male deductive logic way, but what does the intended goal-state look like for MGTOW?

I’ve yet to get a clear consensus on this. Most of it seems to be awaiting an expected societal collapse whereafter women ‘come to their senses’ and somehow realize they really need men and voluntarily relinquish the power they hold today in favor of treating men more fairly. I’m doubtful of how realistic this is, but perhaps I’m mistaken in this being the perceived end game. Women of course would see this as being an abdication of their own interests – a surrender of feminism so to speak, but what does an acceptable ‘truce’ between men and women look like to feminists as well as MGTOWs?

I ask these questions because it seems to me that both movements depend on an adversarial state existing between the sexes. What would the inter-gender landscape need to look like for MGTOWs to deal with women or compete with other men? What would that landscape need to look like for feminism to dissolve and relinquish the abusive power it’s established over the lives of men?

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[…] The Nature of Power […]

Tollo Romassi
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Tollo Romassi

I’ve had to wrestle with this myself. I haven’t had a girlfriend in 14 years (I’m 39 now). So i was basically ‘MGTOW’ long before the term was coined. Although it wasn’t out of anger or bitterness…I just simply had no game (still don’t), and I also just really enjoyed/enjoy being single and living a drama-free life. I will admit that I’ve progressively gotten MORE upset/angry over the years, but it’s definitely something I’m trying to work on because I know that it doesn’t serve me. I also have had that same thought in the back of my mind of… Read more »

Higgs Boson
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Higgs Boson

The pursuit of equality is a dead end, it doesn’t exist. Power is generated by polarity. The FI wins the Darwin Award.

SHAKA LEONIDAS
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SHAKA LEONIDAS

Excellent post as usual Rollo. Very intresting peice on “Power”. It’s difficult to find writing online about the subject and its masculine conceptualization in pair with intersexual dynamics. Especially in the 21st century without it turning into an imagionary wall street billionaire play boy circle jerk fantasy or the “mind over matter” unbreakable frame mantras. As far as the future MGTOW hope to achieve? That’s a good question. The vast majority either want “on the plantation” or “back on the plantation” but with better pay, better farm equipment, better stock and an appreciation for their hard work. Even if it’s… Read more »

Jonny
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Jonny

“I’m not being flippant here. I’m genuinely curious as to what the end state of a MGTOW society ought to look like.” You could–maybe–talk to MGTOWs about this. Try your new friend Turd Flinging Monkey for example. His answer will be essentially: “I didn’t say ask women to give up their rights. I said take women’s rights away.” He thinks patriarchy is the inevitable end state of civilization; it’s just a question of who will reinstate it. Maybe go on his show or other MGTOWs if you want to know what they think. Instead, the fact that you didn’t spend… Read more »

Elooie
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Elooie

In my opinion what both mgtow and feminism share is a sense of victimhood and helplessness. Neither of those qualities are in a leader or success archtype. It’s why they both can get you so far and then no farther. Ultimately they will both give way to a powerful masculine man. It’s the archtype built on top of the opposite qualities. Responsibility and personal control(power).

elooie
Guest
elooie

In my opinion what both mgtow and feminism share is a sense of victimhood and helplessness. Neither of those qualities are in a leader or success archtype. It’s why these mindsets both can get you so far and then no farther. Ultimately they will both give way to a powerful masculine man. It’s the archtype built on top of the opposite qualities. Responsibility and personal control(power).

Elooie
Guest
Elooie

In my opinion what both mgtow and feminism share is a sense of victimhood and helplessness. Neither of those qualities are in a leader or successful archtype. It’s why they both can get you so far and then no farther. Ultimately both mindsets will give way to a powerful masculine man. It’s the archtype built on top of the opposite qualities. Personal Responsibility and personal control(power).

Veneno1
Guest
Veneno1

What is my source of power? The red pill, we have been taught to be incongruent with ourselves as men. If it were not for the red pill I would of never known about game,how crazy some women are, making myself my mental point of origin and machevalianism. My biggest red pill lesson? When you know why, you can act and when you act you improve. Thanks for the post Rollo.

Stone
Guest
Stone

Women don’t love, hate or ignore you for what you are but for what they IMAGINE you are.

Mineter
Guest
Mineter

There appears to be a misconception that MGTOW is some sort of centralised movement, with an organising committee, manifesto etc. Apparently, there are some… personalities… identifying as MGTOW that attempt to enforce some sort of dogma, canon about what it really is. Unlike Feminism, no-one can kick a man out of MGTOW. He may not even be aware he is one. If you boil it down, there is no single MGTOW “way”. Really, it’s each man going his own respective way, chosen by him for himself. So, a man who makes himself his own mental point of origin, decides not… Read more »

Nonna
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Nonna

A man going is own way is not waiting for “women to come to their senses.” It’s enough that he himself came to his senses.

German MGTOW
Guest
German MGTOW

Yes, Mineter said it. It is a wrong conception to view MGTOW as a “movement” with “end goals” comparable to feminism or other -ism. To “go MGTOW” is just a PERSONAL decision and has nothing to do with wishing that the world (or women/men) could/should become so or so. It’s just about what seems to work best for ME now and here. About my own mental point of origin. That’s all. If some people try to make a “movement” out of MGTOW they’re mistaken and not real MGTOWs anymore. Because “movement” means either taking on other’s “mental points of origin”… Read more »

Culum Struan
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Culum Struan

LOL@Rollo’s cryptocurrency reference.

Handmade
Guest
Handmade

Rollo, I have read almost all of your content but it is this article that made me ask two questions:

– do you think that civilization and society are inherently a net benefit to us as humans. If so, why?
– do you think that both of the above are inherently a net benefit to the world. If so, why?

Thanks!

rugby11
Guest

“I can point to a lot of men who have no real power, influence, affluence or even social proof who nonetheless pull women and have women pull him because they have a look that fit a woman’s sexual ideal and/or had an Alpha mindset. I have been that guy.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jK1vUhP0fUw “Feminists do the same thing from their own base of interest. They cannot compete for Darwinistic reproductive success with women whose SMV outclasses their own.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqgiqpKMtWg “I’m not being flippant here. I’m genuinely curious as to what the end state of a MGTOW society ought to look like. Feminists seem… Read more »

theasdgamer
Guest

All of these are adaptive strategies for increasing reproductive success.

It sounds like you think their strategies will work. Then later you deny it. That’s confusing.

“All of these are adaptive strategies which they suppose will increase reproductive success.”

Tribal
Guest
Tribal

Even though I am no scientist, I am very much interested in it and do believe that the only way anything can be explained in this universe is through science. And I think this post is the most scientific way of explaining what feminism is all about. It actually makes perfect sense. The envy, the resentment, the hate. It is the same thing with incel culture, full of resentment, hate, envy, and when the unfulfilled testosterone rush kicks in, unfortunately rage and violence. It is funny that the only side of this coin that you can see on TV is… Read more »

theasdgamer
Guest

I see various guys say things that indicate that they somehow want women to think like men. E.g., “maybe you’ll come to your senses” or “modern women turned over a new leaf “. Maybe these guys think that under Patriarchy women thought like men. But that was never the case. Never. Under Patriarchy, women’s Hypergamy was mitigated to some degree. Men generally didn’t need to worry about it. And men who were “with it” understood that women didn’t think like men. Women CAN’T think like men because their brains are physically different. Wired totally differently. Men who suppose that women… Read more »

rugby11
Guest

https://www.thoughtco.com/samson-and-delilah-700215
This is probably pretty remedial. “Duh, chicks dig power Rollo.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbIwIx8tpfU
“I ask these questions because it seems to me that both movements depend on an adversarial state existing between the sexes. What would the inter-gender landscape need to look like for MGTOWs to deal with women or compete with other men? What would that landscape need to look like for feminism to dissolve and relinquish the abusive power it’s established over the lives of men?”
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2015/01/04/you-thought-you-knew-the-story-of-samson-and-delilah-you-were-wrong/

boulderhead
Guest

When we were kids we used to play this game called whiplash,basically everyone held hands and ran in a crooked line the last one in line would inevitably get thrown away in the grass,the inertia made it impossible to hold on or keep your footing.

It would appear that MGTOW is the whiplash effect of feminism. If we are really MGTOW we would stop playing their game,stop getting thrown.

EhIntellect
Guest
EhIntellect

ASD, Good morning. Legally codified feminism seeks greater options for women’s sexual strategy. It’s a strategy, and is limited by human nature. Garbage in, garbage out. You of all commenters understand TPTB want our compliance, not our souls. Knowing this I give Ceasar’s what’s his and all else is up for grabs. All else, that is, what women really want, validation of a certain man. Desire sex goes both ways. Women want it, above all. MGTOW is stupid. It reinforces limited options not expanding options. How’s that helpful? MGTOW tightly circumscribe a life into what they can directly control, playing… Read more »

Handmade
Guest
Handmade

@asdgamer “It’s in our interest to understand women” – very much depends on what you want. In work setting, or majority of formal settings, the prevalent model of behaviour is still very much based on male world-view, what we tend to call “professional”. That is, emphasizing logical thinking, mitigation of emotional responses and focus on results. That’s how men tend to see the world. Women who have entered those environments (corporate structures etc.) have adapted to this behavioural model because it is the most effective one for the job. So, for the purpose of forming effective working relationships with females… Read more »

boulderhead
Guest

No spinning off into the turf is to many laughs.

Handmade
Guest
Handmade

@EhIntellect: “MGTOW is stupid. It reinforces limited options not expanding options. How’s that helpful? ” – it can be helpful to oneself to limit options which carry risks that cannot be anticipated, or quantified. You can be in a relationship where you desire and are desired in turn. That relationship can, and has frequently been known to, change rapidly and outside of your control. Sure, there are many techniques and measures one can employ to limit the risk, but it is inherent and some aspects one simply cannot control or mitigate. Legal forces are invariably in the employ of the… Read more »

Colby
Guest
Colby

This should answer your question Rollo:

theasdgamer
Guest

Handmade, many women are only “playing the game” in a professional world. Many go the easy route, getting ahead by sleeping with the boss and undercutting you with the boss after they’ve fucked and she’s lying in bed with him. Or maybe the girls in the office have a girls’ night out and one or more of them undercuts you with the others and lines them up to undercut you at the office together. Go ahead and blindfold yourself and ignore women’s deceptive strategies. Does this really sound like a good plan?

theasdgamer
Guest

Legal forces are invariably in the employ of the fairer sex nowadays, so you always hand over a significant degree of power over yourself to whatever female you decide to form a relationship with.

Sure, if you’re stupid. But if you understand how to obtain social power, you can avoid the legal realm. And even in the legal realm, social power is important.

theasdgamer
Guest

If you’re into the game – yes, you will definitely need to understand women and this site is a real treasure trove.

This is another element of the Blue Pill–that game only involves obtaining sex. Game is about far more than obtaining sex–it is about strategies for obtaining success for your mission in any social arena. Game is important in any arena where people gather in groups–at the office, in sales, at Walmart, in the mall, at church, at the country club, at the bar, at Comic Con, at parties, in a fraternity, etc.

Incubus_Rising
Guest
Incubus_Rising

There is no END GAME for MGTOW. It comprises of men who are in the bottom 80% of the male dominance hierarchy. They have swallowed the RED PILL and are aware that they will never receive desire sex / unconditional love from any female. At best they will be used as a Beta Provider or a tax paying slave. Unfortunately, these men can elect either SURVIVAL or REPRODUCTION. And they choose SURVIVAL, because chasing REPRODUCTION entails a very high probability of being “zeroed out”. In the absence of “enforced monogamy” (as defined by JBP) there will always be a bottom… Read more »

EhIntellect
Guest
EhIntellect

“it can be helpful to oneself to limit options which carry risks that cannot be anticipated, or quantified. ”

That’s a life of risk management. I get enough of that OTJ.

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

A bit of hyperbolic exaggeration. I don’t buy for a minute that 80% of men will never get ” desire sex ” and my position is that it’s always a matter of a man’s knowledge base along with degrees of Red pill understanding. It’s the capitulation lebowski. Acceptance, fear and resignation. None of these constitute facts. Think about it rationally for a second: if the ” top 10% ” are having a party, why is that so? Projections of unmitigated power across the spectrum of all females isn’t realistic or based in facts, because biology. Biology is your friend in… Read more »

Thomas
Guest
Thomas

You nailed it at the end, Rollo. Third/fourth wave feminists and MGTOWs evolved after Marx’s Conflict Theory of Sociology took hold. They’re reactionary movements that can’t exist without the oppressor holding them down. Therefore, they have no end game because without the oppressor, they cease to have a reason to exist.

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

* sigh*

Don’t play yourself.

SJF
Guest
SJF

@Handmade Notice some of the themes of the original post. MGTOW is certainly a hallmark of Monk Mode which is a tactical space in order to become stronger, smarter and more refined as a masculine male. It is by nature temporary in order to get a Signal for your purpose and Mission without the surrounding Noise. It might take a while. It’s not an end state. Dwelling permanently in MGTOW space is in the end not a masculine calling. It’s for lost boys and those that don’t want to engage in reality. In reality humans engage socially in groups (namely… Read more »

newlyaloof
Guest

This guy looks a bit soft and probably blue pill (don’t know for sure. I don’t care enough to watch any videos of him longer than this one), but it still makes me laugh:

jsolbakken
Guest
jsolbakken

“This is where militant MGTOWs and Black Pill nihilists show their colors.” What you’re saying about “power” is true in the natural world, but in the real world of supernatural witchcraft and sorcery in which we find our selves it is not a sufficient analysis. By “witchcraft” and “sorcery” I’m referring to evil wicked legal spells such as “The Duluth Model” of domestic violence. Psychology and biology and evolution and do not matter for squat when they have “The Duluth Model” as a trump card they can play anytime they want. “The Duluth Model” and other such “spells” rig the… Read more »

Handmade
Guest
Handmade

@asdgamer – some interesting points. Some I agree with, some less so. As for women in the workplace – you’re actually right, there is a lot more going on. I mean, your boss can also be a woman one day. So, sure, whatever helps. My blind spot is that female in my role is quite rare so I generally interact with women in a x-dept fashion only. Sounds like I have something to learn. When you talk about social power vs legal power – this is the difference between soft and hard. In the end, hard beats soft. As I… Read more »

amonymous dude
Guest
amonymous dude

The quote in the first comment is interesting. If a man were truly MGTOW, he would not be upset if women were not interested in him – he wouldn’t care because he’s going his own way. The quote makes it clear that this guy does care, deeply, that women do not find him attractive. It’s clear he’s not actually “going his own way.” And at some point the smoldering rage building up in him may explode. So what is the actual mindset of this guy who is not trying to get a woman but resentful of the fact that women… Read more »

rugby11
Guest

Interesting
https://thegentlemanjak.wordpress.com/
Read

Handmade
Guest
Handmade

@SJF How very interesting. I’ll start from the end, because this piqued my interest reading your post: “Do you actually want to be one of those cold and timid souls (a pussy) who neither know victory nor defeat? That’s not tagged under masculine.” Besides a fair bit of projection and inference (not uncommon in the earlier part of your post) I object to your ownership of what is masculine and what is not. As said before – judgment reflects on the one doing the judging. If you feel that masculinity is defined by conquering female character – good for you;… Read more »

tmh556
Guest
tmh556

Hi Rollo, this may have been covered elsewhere but just curious if you have devised a “litmus test” to say you are red pill. I realize this can deal with generalities but I’m just thinking on my own personal level that I feel red pill because I do not pedestalize any more. I used to do that all the time and have oneitis all the time as well (which technically should only happen once in your life by definition). It’s a very distinct difference that I now do not pedestalize at all when I was so preoccupied with it before.

Jonas
Guest
Jonas

Huh, i never imagined that my discussion will be used as opening. Sure, im an incel but even i see going MGTOW as running away from problems. As for me, im just in good ol’ Abyss where hatred for women, anger for past beta movies and inability to make the last step mixes into big pile of negativity.

SJF
Guest
SJF

“Besides a fair bit of projection and inference (not uncommon in the earlier part of your post) I object to your ownership of what is masculine and what is not. As said before – judgment reflects on the one doing the judging. If you feel that masculinity is defined by conquering female character – good for you; many disagree.” I think Masculinity is more defined by conquering male character defects and having masculine virtues as in The Way of Men. Strength, Courage, Mastery and Honor among men. Women are welcomed to come along and be a complement to that, not… Read more »

marelius
Guest

@amonymous dude,

Most of your post is just conjecture about Jonas. He is not much, if any, of what you describe him as. You should go to the Post and read through the dialog that Rollo was referencing to understand what of yours is conjecture vs truth. Also, Jonas posted up thread, so you could ask him directly.

theasdgamer
Guest

What turns me off personally is having to work for it so hard with rewards being so meagre in the end, and risk being inherent. I may not be as full of life as your good self, perhaps leading someone other than myself is just not for me; at least not in personal life. Being a man–and developing into being a man–requires hard work and accepting risks. You might not see the rewards from your current perspective, but as you change, so will your perspective. I didn’t use to see social stuff as very important (even kind of dirty!)–I focused… Read more »

KAK
Guest
KAK

I think the idea is if enough ‘men’ run off and join mgtow, the women get poor and lonely and want men back on equal terms. It wouldn’t work quite like that . Women have uncle Sam to transfer wealth from the men to them without being in a relationship. If there was a relationship she can end it and get a bigger payout from him. There will always be plenty of men not mgtow for women can get attention from, plus there are lots of cats, and when she gets older she can marry an exotic man from a… Read more »

Handmade
Guest
Handmade

@SJF it seems we entirely agree. Honour, strength, integrity, courage – this is what I strive for as the ideal of masculinity. This is what want to live by. The only point where I reserve lack of agreement is the final one. That is no doubt the result of my own experiences and where I am in life. I think perhaps we have a somewhat divergent outlook on life in general – but that is to be welcomed. Panta rei – nothing is set in stone and a time may well come when I will have come full circle and… Read more »

theasdgamer
Guest

Yeah, the mgtow might get their patriarchy back

Maybe from an invading army, as I see it.

Ronin
Guest
Ronin

There are s lot mgtows who are not even aware of the concept, my local pub is full of them. Most of these guys are 35 + and have limited sexual contact with women, many have been married and were zeroed out several years ago. Some are higher income blue collar types, policemen, firemen etc. 30+ that have never married, they pump and dump for the most part.

Where it all goes is as past history indicates, civilization stagnation and decay . Look to 1930’s Germany as a model, displaced men with few options are dangerous.

MarcoP
Guest
MarcoP

You can call me an involuntary mgtow, or a recently incel. I’ve had a couple of LTRs (10-15yrs), a few STRs (not many), all of them went up in smoke. The LTRs because they cheated, the STRs because I was too embittered to allow them any leeway for bitch games. Single for the past 6 years. And there’s absolutely nothing in sight anymore. I’m too lonely, too old, too zeroed out. First of all, please note I’ve been reading and metabolizing TRM for 8 years now, so spare me the friendly pep talk, “quit whining you fucking pussy loser”, “just… Read more »

EhIntellect
Guest
EhIntellect

Handmade,

“I like it far more now than I did before.”

No snark…past performance is not an indicator of future return. Yeah I get you’ve burned you hand on the stove and all.

I’m not a good manager, so I don’t.

Forcefitting her or anyone into my frame isn’t a long term solution so I don’t do that either.

People recognize calm self actualization. That DPA thing. If you find your center, your certainty follows. The world as it is, bullshit and all, will be much more tolerable, even enjoyable when dealing with unpredicted vagaries.

anon
Guest
anon

Handmade: “– do you think that civilization and society are inherently a net benefit to us as humans. If so, why?” I think the answer to the above would depend entirely on whether or not you are glad you’re alive. If the answer is, “No, I wish I’d never been born” then civilization and society (which are really just human animals collaborating to stay alive and create an environment where they can reproduce more) are not a net benefit to you. But if you want to be alive (not to mention the ability to communicate like this…over infrastructure having been… Read more »

kfg
Guest
kfg

“You can call me an involuntary mgtow . . .”

. . . but that would be an oxymoron.

SJB
Guest
SJB

What would the inter-gender landscape need to look like for MGTOWs to deal with women or compete with other men? What would that landscape need to look like for feminism to dissolve and relinquish the abusive power it’s established over the lives of men?

Androgyny. The battle of the sexes ceases only when there are no sexes.

Great header art. Delilah got the seed and the money.

constrainedlocus
Guest

The question is a good one: “What is the end game of Mgtow?” The answer is rather obvious, to me at least, when we look at the current field of play. That field of play we are all living in is post-war. The war has already been lost to gynocentrism and to feminist ideals. And not by a little bit, or with any straggling insurgents of consequence. There is no insolent rebellion of note. Not even Mgtows claim that. The war is over. And it was a decisive loss for men and boys. There is no tract of your existence… Read more »

marquisdestade
Guest
marquisdestade

“What is the end game of Mgtow?”

Expectation that the “ennemy” will come to their sense and change their behaviour because, well, you sure showed these gals what they missed by ignoring them.

Basically, regressing to a ten year old child’s world view.

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader

Good start in this article, comparing MGTOW to feminism is trite but true. I have not yet read comments, but wish to add that power struggles within a relationship (one on one LTR / marriage) have likely become more common because of feminist sloganeering. Currently I’m reading The Bitch in the House. It’s written by a an authoress, a girl who writes, and it’s a collection of essays written by other women, many of them writers, about their relationships with men, many of whom are writers or English professors. So there’s no danger of sample error, for sure. I can’t… Read more »

Water Cannon Boy
Guest
Water Cannon Boy

There are just enough signs happening for MGTOW to grow confidence in stating “See, we’re coming”. A columnist in Seattle writing an op/ed about why men don’t seem to approach her or other women anymore. A study on marriage rates shows up here. Another article about being freezing eggs there. I saw a tv news clip that was annoyingly titled, trying to be catchy I guess, as the middle child is disappearing from families. The number of married couples having more than 2 children is apparently falling rapidly. Sometimes it seems like the imagined end game is a scenario of… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
Guest
Not Born This Morning

“Are women attracted to Power?” Who cares? What man would care other than a man lacking power? A man who cares “what women are attracted to” is a man who lives subject to women. The need to gain or understand power in order to facilitate being attractive to women manifests a desire for women’s approval that is greater than a desire for power itself. If the man wanted power, he would seek and find it first. Everything else power brings is a benefit of self control vs being controlled by others. If the man is in control of himself, then… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader

@Colby

Turd Flinging Monkey describes the “War Bride” phenom, then uses the term itself towards the end of the video. I’m pretty sure Rollo knows about War Brides…

It’s not even higher education. I can’t lay my hand on the URL but there’s been a strong correlation found between female literacy and declining TFR. You can check this by looking at female literacy rates in countries that still have a TFR > 2.1, such as Yemen, Nigeria, etc.

Rollo’s question – what is the end state for MGTOW – remains unanswered. Likely for the same reason feminists can’t answer it….

EhIntellect
Guest
EhIntellect

@ Constraindlocus

“The war is over. ”

“I could be wrong…”

Ya think?

C’mon man! Power off and take a walk in the sunshine.

Strkeforce Morituri
Guest
Strkeforce Morituri

“I’m genuinely curious as to what the end state of a MGTOW society ought to look like.” In my opinion we just haven’t reached the point technologically whereby a MGTOW reality could even become feasible. I happened to go on a Sci Fi bender over the weekend and i watched my two Favourite movies Blade Runner And Blade Runner 2049 . A little Dystopian in nature but really representative of what society could look like if technology in my opinion was at it’s apex. Mind you I’m not so much interested in the enviromental aspects of that world , I… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
Guest
Not Born This Morning

Nature wrote the game.

Sorry if you don’t like the “rules”.

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader

Water Cannon Boy
There hasn’t been a time where this amount of men through words and actions have expressed, and felt comfortable with expressing, that they just don’t feel like it when it comes to women.

Why were taxes on bachelors created in the late Roman empire?

theasdgamer
Guest

“Are women attracted to Power?”

Who cares?

I’ve answered that question previously. Since we live in a social milieu where half the pop is women, most men should care enough to attempt to understand how women act and think. Even a Blue Pill natural should care, because he is liable to get #metoo’d if he’s clueless. Some guys get laid a lot, but suck at relationships…future child support lackeys. Even people with power like Weinstein are subject to women’s shenanigans. But still clueless….

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader

Rollo Ostensibly, the cover story of feminism has always been about some effort to achieve an idealized state of equality between men and women. This has never been the actual case, but even if we were to presume that this equality was tenable it still requires the players to ignore their strengths and weaknesses in playing the existing game and pretend that a new game, based on contrived rules, is now the true game. See “code of conduct” in open source software and various conventions. Not only are some men being required to play a new game based on contrived… Read more »

theasdgamer
Guest

Women can and have shit-tested their relationships to destruction, now we see some doing that to organizations.

Of course, men are blameless because there are no men running the feminist show.

Not Born This Morning
Guest
Not Born This Morning

“Every time I’ve tried to parse out what happens when enough men go MGTOW that society shifts I’m usually met with some equalist future where women ‘come to their senses’” Yes, yes, yes. And the same dynamic applies to all social competition, not just the sexual. The modes operand is to convivence enough “followers” to go along with a damn lie, a false representation of reality, of the universe, a “hope”, a call to the way things “should” be… because its “better” for all. But really its just the weakling, the ignoble way of trying to rig the game, trying… Read more »

SjR
Guest
SjR

@Tribal – I like your points and think you see things clearly.. It’s a good message. However for the 80% of men all is not lost. Reality is a bitch but must be accepted in order to grow. I don’t think any man is permanently down and out. You just have to focus on the parts of life you can control and make them more the way you want. If MGTOW helps with that, and I’m sure it does for many men, then great. Making yourself mental point of origin and taking the P off the pedestal is a must.… Read more »

rugby11
Guest

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcp25FBKLQE
The bullets already been fired.

ollieoxenfree1
Guest

MGTOW use to be divorced middle aged men recounting their experiences with their ex partners. The whole debilitating and acrimonious divorce with a promise to one and all they’d never remarry. Invariably they do, though that’s neither here nor there. These men have social proof. They’ve been there and done it. The men who co-opted MGTOW are involuntary celibates. Men, worthy of our derision. Although their presence shouldn’t tarnish the otherwise, sound, core principles of the philosophy. Feminism is equal rights for women. The right for women to enjoy the same advantages as men. Men (by and large) had earned… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
Guest
Not Born This Morning

“…he has the appearance of what these guys think power should look like and he’s rewarded with pussy for it” “rewarded”? Is he going to get a treat? Is he an employee, a slave, a subordinate, a dog? It is all in how a man frames himself. Who gets “rewarded” other than one who is conditioned to perform a behavior for someone else’s entertainment or benefit. Here is what you have to do, here is what you have to become, and then you will be ‘rewarded”… with pussy. Who is stupid enough to chase the carrot, to find the pot… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
Guest
Not Born This Morning

“I’m genuinely curious as to what the end state of a MGTOW society ought to look like. Feminists seem to think that egalitarian equalism and gender neutrality, and a world where men and women are coequal agents is a future that’s possible. I’ve read the comparisons of feminism with Marxism and it’s not too far off with regard to their stated future hopes. I don’t buy any of it of course. It’s been proven over and over that feminism is a supremacism movement, but I’m interested in what the hopes are for the the cover story of feminism. I wonder… Read more »

Brychan
Guest
Brychan

Rollo, MGTOW is inherently inward looking, so assuming these guys are motivated by some big picture vision of the future is a mistake. They simply don’t care. They’re busy concentrating on making their own lives the best they can be. It’s an overly simplified way to power (cutting the Gordian Knot) and you could argue that it’s an illusion, however, mocking them and lumping them in with nihilists is just counterproductive, not to mention mean-spirited. It reveals a certain arrogant conceit that tends to come out in your writing when referring to men who don’t have game, but are simply… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
Guest
Not Born This Morning

Anyone who doesn’t think we are fragmented just needs to observe the fact that Facebook recognizes at least 51 different genders. https://www.thedailybeast.com/what-each-of-facebooks-51-new-gender-options-means Gender has been fragmented from heterosexual (involving 2) to heterosexual and homosexual and bisexual (involving a confusion of 2) to now 51 +. This is sexual fragmentation of sexual fragmentation of sexual fragmentation of sexual fragmentation ad nauseum. Most of it has ballooned into what it is now just during the past few years. And make no mistake, it is being MANDATED by law as well as forced conscription via social fear mongering orchestrated by the emotionally manipulative… Read more »

theasdgamer
Guest

They’re busy concentrating on making their own lives the best they can be.

Shouldn’t they first make themselves the best they can be so that they can find out who they are? Then they’ll have a basis for a life mission.

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

” safe harbor “? Interesting.

Safe harbor is a temporary thing for men. It’s used to regroup. Permanent safe harbor is for women, children and the elderly and ill. And that safety is usually provided by men.

SJB
Guest
SJB

Given the purpose of male and female: https://youtu.be/_5OvgQW6FG4 feminism is clearly not far from a natural human female state – an acidic environment, marshalled immune response, obstacles, etc.

MGTOW is a refusal to swim; the only state is non-action.

Dan C
Guest
Dan C

> What would that landscape need to look like for feminism to dissolve and relinquish the abusive power it’s established over the lives of men? Remember that when a society is gripped by a meme, such as the FI, it won’t relinquish its control voluntarily. What will happen is that the affected society will have to compete economically and militarily in the international competition of nations. This is where the true worth of social systems gets tested and either sinks or swims according to its value. Think of the Soviet Union. It collapsed when its people simply couldn’t keep going… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
Guest
Not Born This Morning

“Feminism is equal rights for women. The right for women to enjoy the same advantages as men.” Feminism is not equal rights for women. It is women vilifying men while simultaneously trying to be like men. Women will never “enjoy” the same “advantages” as men because women are not men. They cannot do the same things a man can do. Many can lie and certainly have lied that they can do the same thing a man can do for generations. But their lie does not change reality. And, men have not been the woman oppressors, woman abusers, that feminists have… Read more »

anon
Guest
anon

“Meanwhile China and Russia are spending money effectively on technologies that negate the sea power that underlies the US empire and soon will overcome US air power, as the US cripples itself with the too-big-to-fail F-35 boondoggle while these countries move ahead with real technologies that actually work.”

I’m not going to champion the F35 (even the pilots who fly it call if Fat Amy), but I have to ask…what technologies to you believe the Russians and Chinese are working on that will “overcome US air power”?

Fact
Guest
Fact

Rollo is respected thought leader. But I don’t think his generation fully gets it. Millennials have grown up with the smartphone. Dating apps are the new norm. On dating apps women only like 25% male profiles. While men like 50% female profiles. Only top tier males are in the game. The average male 5/10 has to like over 100 female profiles to get one match, which then turns into a date with a woman a couple notches less attractive than him. So the average male is relagated to validating some less attractive woman once a year by banging a woman… Read more »

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

… how did I ever reach a respectable n-count prior to the internet ( mostly…) and ” dating apps”???

How in the world did all those millions of previous males ever get ” laid ” or whatever?

If you play by somebody else’s rules, you’ll get what they give you. Don’t complain.

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

” Power “.

EhIntellect
Guest
EhIntellect

@ Fact

Act 2nd tier, others treat you as 2nd tier.

Burden.

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

Imo, one of the fastest ways to accrue ” power ” is to not do what everybody else is doing . Or at a minimum, do it differently. If you look at a cohort of males all doing the exact same things, the exact same way, you can’t learn anything much from the comparative results.

No need to duplicate another man’s failures. Create some unique failures of your own, and guess what? There will be some real successes eventually. Maybe. But following failing plans will result in mostly fails.

Agreed?

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

@ Eh

My great grandfather used to tell me how easy we had it ( getting chicks ) because we had electricity and cars.

My grandfather told me we had it easy because ” loose morals “. Lol.

My father told me that I had an unhealthy obsession – but don’t stop.

EhIntellect
Guest
EhIntellect

@ Blax

Safe harbor….exactly.

Stay there long enough the hull rots.

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

…. ” top tier” guys aren’t even using dating apps.

EhIntellect
Guest
EhIntellect

I’m batch’n it tonight.

Am I staying in? Fuck no! I’ll be at the farmer’s market. They might as well call it the meat market with all women cruising.

rugby11
Guest
O.B.I.T.
Guest
O.B.I.T.

Farmers’ markets ARE a fertile field for day game, especially for my overripe demographic

rugby11
Guest
David Carradine
Guest
David Carradine

Blaximus @

July 18, 2018 at 3:19 pm says:

“… how did I ever reach a respectable n-count prior to the internet ( mostly…) and ” dating apps”???”
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Because of coal burners like your wife you dumb fuck.

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

You feel better now?

… powerless. Lmao.

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

Yet another downside of the interwebs for me.

But, whatevs.

rugby11
Guest

Was that really or ever necessary?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zEKC7QelmEU

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