Mental Point of Origin

PoO

I’m working another contract gig for the next few months, and recently I had an interesting encounter with a new girl on my team. She’s 34, Japanese (dual citizenship) maybe an HB 6.5-7 and over the summer she hooked up with a guy here who she had a somewhat monogamous relationship with until he transferred to Australia last August.

This girl is ‘in love’ with this guy who’s not aloof to her, and not fully indifferent, but he sets himself as his first priority and never considered turning down his transfer in order to continue anything with her. The guy is nothing special to look at. No muscle definition, kind of fat-thin if you know what I mean, but pasty white, ginger, not out of shape but not in shape, maybe 5′ 11″.

She cannot shut up about what a ‘real man’ he is. She bought a $2,200 ticket to visit him for a week and a half in January and has made a personalized calendar as a gift for him that has photos all of these events they shared together over the summer, every month with a heartfelt description of some thing she loves about him included.

To her, this guy is Alpha as fuck. On Tinder, this guy would be a left swipe 100% of the time. His attitude is indifferent Alpha, but he’s self-concerned. This girl idolizes him.

Granted there’s a lot more going on here to consider; her being well past the Epiphany Phase, necessitous and urgently wanting to consolidate on a long term monogamy makes this guy into an idealized prospect. Thus he became her Alpha, if not anyone else’s. Granted, it’s mostly situational; she thinks she wants to have kids with him and at 34 that clock is about to expire, but she has to come to him, literally and figuratively.

However, although the guy is definitely a ‘contextual Alpha’, he’s got a genuine Alpha-ish bearing that translates into his being self-aware of his condition and really not giving a damn what anyone else might think. He’s got total Frame control, but it’s not an intentional control, and that natural casualness of indifference only makes her want to please him that much more. There may be a cultural element to this as well, but to hear her talk about other, lesser men, it’s apparent she’s been very much westernized in her sense of entitlement.

Self-Concern Without Self-Awareness

People think I’m crazy to hold up a guy like Corey Worthington as the example of an Alpha Buddah, but this guy has the same unpracticed, self-unaware, mojo as Corey.

Personally, I was at my most Alpha when I didn’t realize I was. That’s not Zen, it’s just doing what came natural for me at a point in my life when I had next to nothing materially, only a marginal amount of social proof, but a strong desire to enjoy women for the sake of just enjoying them in spite of it.

I’ve mentioned before, the most memorable sex I’ve had has been when I was flat broke (mostly). It didn’t matter that I lived in a 2 room studio in North Hollywood or had beer and mac & cheese in the fridge – I got laid and I had women come to me for it.

It didn’t take my doing anything for a woman to get laid or hold her interest. All I did was make myself my mental point of origin. It’s when I started putting women as a goal, making them into more than just a source of enjoyment, that I transferred that mental point of origin to her and I became the necessitous one.

A lot of guys will call that being ‘needy’, and I suppose it is, but it’s a neediness that results from putting a woman (or another person) as your first thought – your mental point of origin.

I’ve used this term in a few posts so I thought it deserved a bit more explanation.

Your mental point of origin is really your own internalized understanding about how you yourself fit into your own understanding of Frame.

If Frame is the dominant narrative of a relationship (not limited to just romantic relations), your mental point of origin is the import and priority to which you give to the people and/or ideas involved in that relationship. It is the first thought you have when considering any particular of a relationship, and it’s often so ingrained in us that it becomes an autonomous mental process.

For most of us our understanding of that point of origin develops when we’re children. Kids are necessarily “selfish”, sometimes cruel and greedy because our first survival instinct is to naturally put ourselves as our mental point of origin. Only later, with parenting and learning social skills do we begin to share, cooperate, empathize and sympathize as our mental point of origin shifts to putting the concerns of others before our own.

Young boys are generally very Alpha because of this unlearned self-importance. This is the source of the almost zen-like, mater-of-fact Alpha bearing of Corey Worthington. As I said, he’s not a ‘man’ anyone ought to aspire to, but he is an Alpha without intent or self-awareness.

There is a ‘first thought’ balance we have to maintain in a pro-social respect in order to develop healthy relationships. The problem we run into today is one in which boys are (largely) raised to be the men who provide more than they need in order to establish a future family. That learned, conditioned, mental point of origin is almost always focused outward and onto the people he hopes will reciprocate by placing him as their own point of origin.

Natural feminine solipsism makes this exchange a losing prospect. Women are both raised and affirmed by a vast social mechanism that not just encourages them to put themselves as their mental point of origin, but it shames and ostracizes them for placing it on someone or something other than themselves.

By now I’m sure that much of this comes off as some encouragement towards a retaliatory selfishness or narcissism, but putting oneself as his own point of origin doesn’t have to mean being anti-social or sociopathic. It requires a conscious decision to override an internalized understanding of oneself, but by placing yourself as your mental point of origin you are better positioned to help others and judge who is worth that effort.

It often requires some emotional trauma for men to realign themselves as their own point of origin, and I feel this is a necessary part of unplugging, but the real challenge is in how you deal with that trauma in a Red Pill aware state. If you are to kill the Beta in you, the first step is placing yourself as your mental point of origin.

So my weekend discussion questions are this: Are you your mental point of origin?

Is your first inclination to consider how something in your relationships will affect you or your girlfriend/wife/family/boss?

When men fall into relationships with authoritarian, feminine-primary women, their first thought about any particulars of their actions is how his woman will respond to it, not his own involvement or his motivations for it. Are you a peacekeeper?

Do you worry that putting yourself as your own first priority will turn a woman off or do you think it will engage her more fully?

Are you concerned that doing so may lead to your own form of solipsism, or do you think ‘enlightened self-interests’ serves your best interests and those with whom you want to help or become intimate with?

250 comments

  1. I really enjoyed this article. This year I made alot of changes to improve myself mentally, physically and spiritually. Holding myself as the main point of origin helped me focus on how I wanted to show up in the world based on what I wished to be not how other people thought I should be. That decision caused me to work out more, watch my eating habits, improve my work skills, meditate daily, and read a form of self improvement daily.I recently showed up to a family get together that had alot of people i haven’t seen in months. They all complimented me on how much weight I lost how muscular I’ve become and how much happier I seemed. All the women in my family where convinced that I had found a girlfriend and was keeping her a secret. (apparently we men can only change ourselves for the better with the influence of a woman) They also tried shit testing me to see if i would do their bidding (Didn’t realize female relatives did this until the get together) All in all we have to live our lives for ourselves no matter how much society or family tries to convince us otherwise. Thanks again for the awesome article Rollo!

  2. I’m older now and I wish I’d red pilled 20 years ago. When I look back on my life I realize that the times I was most attractive to women was when I was deep in a mission. I put myself first and just went for it. Now on the other side of 50 it’s hard to move back to that energy. Maybe it’s lower testosterone. Maybe it’s because I’ve been career successful and I can coast now without ambition. I’ve gone bluepill in my current relationship and I’m not happy but damn.. to start over.. alpha-up and start playing the field?

    Rollo, you’re mid to late 40s now. I wonder what you will be saying when you’re in your 50s. I wonder what game looks like then. If you have experience counselling older guys, it would be great if you wrote about it.

  3. I too am in my 50s (late). Came to the red pill a couple of years ago due to sites like Rollo’s. His site is a great public service for men. Before that, for my entire adult life, I was a white-knight completely submerged in the FI. Now I try to unapologetically put myself first, even with a wife and a mistress. I come first (figuratively speaking), my son comes second, and everyone else comes third. I’m not saying it’s easy: old habits die hard. But my wife treats me with more deference than she ever did, never questions any decisions of mine anymore. And my mistress … well that was never an issue.

  4. I really loved this article because it was so personal, thanks Rollo. As for how I answer the questions? Lol, I knew becoming a selfish prick was the right way to go!

    @ Marcus Arrow – 52 myself and here’s what I’ve been doing. First, begin a serious program of weight lifting. Putting on muscle and gaining strength will help your energy and I’m told it effects testosterone levels. The shift has been dramatic for me. Next, try to take on something fun, not hard. I get it, I’ve been at the grind my whole life too and while I can’t coast, we must be about more than work. It’s not too late to pick up that instrument you put down or to write a book – only you can say what that thing is that lights you up. For me, I’ve thrown myself back into my music (never stopped but the new energy is different and better) and also intend to resume climbing – getting in shape to do some ice climbs this winter. I’m psyched.

    As I became more self-interested, things have just unfolded naturally for me. I volunteer at the local community kitchen, helping feed people. And I meet a lot of people there, so not only is it a way to do something good but it also gives me a new social context to operate in. I also seem to be attracting people to me in without effort so my social life is getting more and more interesting. I also am more gregarious and confident, so I just find myself more engaged in the world.

    As for your relationship, from my POV, the only way I can keep any one woman from renting space in my head is by spinning plates – having multiple projects. Monogamy is an unnatural act for a man, in my view. As well, one way to restore balance in your relationship is by inducing some dread in your current partner. There is no surer way to do this than to start connecting with other women. Even if she doesn’t know a thing, she will sense the change in you. Become more unpredictable, don’t tell her when you are going out after work one night and implement correct communications protocol. Tell her to stop calling you while you are at work and let her text you twice for every time you text her. Be less available to her in general. Make plans that don’t include her.

    In other words, start living your life for you. At a certain point, it will become obvious whether you want her around or not. And in the meantime, you will probably have the best sex you’ve ever had with her.

  5. I have recently been considering the idea of “alpha” in the context of women’s progression through the various life stages outlined by Rollo. A couple weeks back, Rollo did a post on a guy who felt he hadn’t changed, but was getting a lot more attention from girls who weren’t interested in him before. Yes, from his own descriptions, he sounded pretty beta. However, I don’t think it’s necessarily as simple as saying “beta bux” kicked in for these women. I think this guy could have been becoming somewhat more “alpha” in the eyes of these women, because as they age, what they consider “alpha” is evolving.

    Before you say I’m a heretic here, let me step back and say something about my observation of “hypergamy”. Women want “high status” men (including on a viceral, sexual level), but what they deem to be high status varies a lot. I’ve got a harvard degree and a job that has prestige and is well paid (I am saying this to prove a point), and there are some girls for whom this is moderately attractive (especially very young girls) and others for whom it is like some sort of catnip.

    I have worked in a developing country where I made 100x+ what many young local women make. As a general rule, they were much much more interested in a super successful guy (assuming he didn’t have major beta traits) than a hot jerk making the same wage they did, even for casual sex and hook ups. You could say this was just extreme “beta bux” prioritization, but I would disagree. Something about this was viscerally and sexually attractive to women because the wealthy guy is perceived as “high status” or even “higher class” and semi-unobtainable, thus a de facto “alpha”. Being in this country, I could imagine what it was like in the early 20th century with some people being considering “nobility” and others “commoners”. We don’t use these words in the U.S. anymore, but as wealth inequality continues to grow that system is re-developing. And the men on top will be perceived as high status and “alpha” by many girls–which is not to say that a completely beta personality can’t totally undermine that, but just that, all things being equal, more wealth, prestige and power is definitely “alpha”.

    So, getting back to my original topic, I believe the same people who were the most “alpha” in high school, i.e., the jocks, wanna be rockstars, thugs, etc. become less “alpha” contextually as they grow older and (largely) become failures (though I know Rollo has done well for himself). Whereas, a normal, very smart guy who is put together well and who goes on to become more successful can become contextually more “alpha”, even if his personality remains the same (essentially, he is increasing his status relative to his peers). My point is that I don’t think women getting more excited about successful guys in their late 20s is all about “beta bux”. I’m sure a large part of it is, but I also think that these women’s conceptions of “alpha” or a “high status” guy change over time, although it’s less obvious in the U.S. than it is in a developing country.

    Those are my thoughts, based on my own experiences. I would be interested in hearing Rollo’s and other guys’ take on this concept.

  6. She’s 34 and a 6.5-7? Not exactly high in the SMP. Also, she’s Japanese, and they are generally much less demanding than Western women. I don’t think there’s necessarily any remarkable mojo going on here.

  7. @biff, I don’t think you’re a heretic at all. In fact my upcoming book basically centers around how women’s determination of what is “Alpha” and the priorities they place on the qualities that determine their perception of it shifts as they move through various phases of their maturity.

    That’s why I mentioned the Japanese girl in the beginning here. Her conscious perception of what made her LDR boyfriend “Alpha” aligns with what her necessity dictates at her stage of life.

    Her hindbrain would motivate her to bang an available hot guy here in the U.S. if the opportunity presented itself, but her cognitive mind would rationalize why she banged him, process any regret and redefine why the boyfriend is still more Alpha than the random guy she fucked.

  8. @Biff, I also have had experience with women in their teens or early twenties seeming to be affected by the status of the man.

    One 21 year old girl here had a crush on me, even though there were two other westeners living in my same building were much more young and handsome. Apparently me being their boss and the boss of the shophouse here had a big effect.

    The stages of mating broad outline works well, but I don’t see it applying always and cross culturally.

    A lot of women want to marry and have kids as teenagers or in their early twenties also, and some of them also are very interested in status.

  9. That 21 year old was the live in maid, by the way. I never touched her as I didn’t find her attractive enough. But it was a lesson to me how local status can have an affect on attraction.

    By the way it’s been studied that an increase in testosterone will correlate with an increase in selfishness.

    Giving the woman commands regularly is a great way to show her of your self interest – and this can get her to not only view you as her leader, but also to start to view attending to you has rituals of devotion.

    Hierarchy can be used to great advantage also withing the relationship with the girl.

  10. Thanks, Rollo. That explanation makes sense, though if the sexual desire for a “perceived alpha” is strong and real, I’m not sure how it differs in practice from “hindbrain alpha”. I will look forward to reading more about your take on evolving “alpha”.

  11. xsplat, I’ve had similar experiences living abroad (except no maids so young). I think living outside of the first world provides very interesting life perspectives, because the male-female relationship dynamic is very different, and frankly more natural.

  12. @ Biff, I was watching a documentary last night that included stories of rich playboys in the 1800s. They would date 14 year olds, and this was considered the norm.

    Their wealth apparently had a huge influence on who they could date, back in those days. There are many stories of famous or wealthy men older men getting better access to youth and beauty than the younger hot guys, throughout history.

    So I don’t know how data like that fits into the schedules of mating blueprint. I do agree generally with that blueprint, but I don’t think we need to squeeze the square pegs into round holes in order to make it work.

    I agree with you Biff that for some women status itself is sexually attractive, in a hindbrain way – regardless of their schedule. And also the schedule may not be the same for all women – it may turn out that some younger women have stronger maternal or other instincts, even at their younger ages. Also cultural influences will affect things a lot – in some places a girl is an old maid if not married by 21, and in those places she does not choose the bad boy to marry.

  13. Comes down to women’s own perceived SMV. If they are looking for a lasting relationship companion without the stress of trying to keep and hold a natural alpha then they will “love” a “lesser” man. Problem is when it comes to sex it is still the natural who she is dreaming about. It does not work this way with men. Men are just happy when they have a compliant or even semi-compliant woman most of the time.

    I remember dating a girl at one of my past jobs that was completely goo goo gaga over me. She would always tell me how she was having such a good time when we were out together, she would tell other people about how I was her boyfriend and she went out of her way to cook for me and make herself look pretty when I was around. The funny thing was she was still hesitating when it came to sex. When it came to sex and pleasing me in the bedroom it just wasn’t there. She let me do whatever I wanted almost immediately but I could tell she was disappointed that I pushed for it so fast. A coworker at the same company was a super alpha type, literally a male hard body callender model. I asked her one time what she thought of him and wasn’t she attracted to him? She flat out told me not really because it would be too much stress being with him because she felt she would have to impress him all the time! Bam! My first real introduction to the red pill. That’s when it became clear to me that what women are willing to do to please one man sexually is not what they are willing to do with another, even when the other is someone they propose to love! The fact that she felt comfortable saying that to me was even more proof, like she thought it wouldn’t bother me! Like I wouldn’t be offended and think but you’re not worried about impressing me? Because I’m not worthy of that and he is! lol. Needless to say she got dropped very soon after that and she was pissed and couldn’t figure out why I dumped her. It’s very strange because it seems they think men should just know their place in the feminine hierarchy view of men and accept it, just feel lucky I’m with you and shut the fuck up. They really think this way even while they are being sweet and fawning all over you.

    No thanks. Enjoy your cats ho.

  14. And along the same line, I think that our mental maps can be too rigid regarding the rules of what to expect from women.

    If it’s true that at least some women are turned on in a hindbrain way by relative status and power, it can also be true that the power to provision is not necessarily only in the category of “beta bucks”.

    Money can be a tool of power used to promote genuine desire.

    That’s not to dispute the general overal concept of alpha-bucks/beta-bucks. But it is to refine the idea to include alternate uses of wealth and social power that do necessarily fit into the beta-bux category.

  15. @Bango Tango, I wonder how much behavior alone would affect the woman’s attitude towards you.

    There are many (myself included) who claim that behavior alone can get a man the same treatment that is usually reserved for the tall handsome hard-bodies – at least with some women.

  16. There are many (myself included) who claim that behavior alone can get a man the same treatment that is usually reserved for the tall handsome hard-bodies – at least with some women.

    @xsplat. Hard to say. It might be the case that you can train a woman but I think only to a certain degree. Ultimately men have to understand that a woman has gauged your status in the male hierarchy almost immediately after viewing you for the first time. This perception can definitely be changed with signaling but where it puts you in hierarchy is still open to question. I remember a Krauser post about how he was able to game a woman into lying naked on his bed but still couldn’t close the deal. She changed her mind, got dressed and left! How do you explain that? I do know when women have lingering doubts about sex and when they do not. You can pick up on these signals and I can’t explain where they come from. Maybe there are little slip up beta tells that you don’t perceive you are making but the female can. Or it might be she is just not designed to be into you regardless of what signals you are sending. I do know the men who symbolize the designated high status male through looks, height, job, money, muscles, tats, etc. universally receive a pass on any beta signals they might send and women don’t need any convincing to be naughty in the bedroom.

  17. We dance around it, but culture is everything here. If a Westerner is fucking women in South East Asia, the dynamic is very different than if he were operating at home. Women in poor countries are rarely looking for alpha sex, they are hoping for a ticket out their economic condition. They are happy if the man doesn’t abuse them, but their expectations are very low. It’s like hunting in an abattoir. Doesn’t count.

  18. @Bango, I agree, women prioritize their values differently. Some girls are all about the hawtness, and there is nothing more to say about it.

    And I agree that the very subtle alpha/beta or whatever cues we give can not all be known to us. I think we can learn charisma over time, and that it’s an endless process. However as we do we grow older and uglier.

    For any particular girl we might not have the power to push her buttons, but I think that charisma and actions, as well as our social positioning and other aspects of our life we have power over such as fitness and style, can be effective enough in a minority of girls, such that a skilled man can get the alpha treatment. Not from as many girls, but from some.

  19. Hey, xsplat, can you clarify something? In your blog post “Use the force. Of paternal love” you write the following:

    “I’ve found this [Daddy] a very useful persona, both for arousing passion in and having control over women, as well as raising my own quality of life. Quality of life is raised by the enjoyment of intimacy and romance, as well as the resulting sex-slave behaviour from daughters.”

    Are you saying you have had sex with your daughters?

  20. On this topic of how women’s attraction changes across their lifetimes I don’t think any analysis is complete without looking at the phenomena of teen-idols. As a man who has sisters and daughters its clear that there is something biological going on with pubescent girls in a way that is radically different from boys. Boys may fantasize about a poster girl, but they never fall over themselves for heartthrobs like Bieber, or Lief Garret, and David Cassidy (in the old days). I’m amazed that many of these teen heartthrobs are more on the fair/effeminate side than masculine. They look like they have good genes, but the most important thing is that all the other girls like them. They are male figures that girls lend incredible status making them even more attractive.

  21. xsplat – “And along the same line, I think that our mental maps can be too rigid regarding the rules of what to expect from women.”

    It’s my understanding you can only expect them to trade up, or always be looking to, when the opportunity and desire coincide. Otherwise I have zero expectations.

  22. Bango Tango @11:29

    I’ve had a similar experience. Dated a bubbly 25-year-old for a while, she was into it, never said no to me, bragged about me on her facebook constantly. A few months in, she was all about feeding me like she was trying out for the Wife Olympics. But her mask started slipping once I found nudes of her college “buddies” on her computer. Her biggest concern wasn’t that I found out. It was that I didn’t tell *them* she had those pictures.

    Soon after, there were a few histrionic displays and lots of demanding behavior and I knew exactly what was up. Just sent her home one day after some “do whatever you want with me” sex and stopped calling her. My former self would have tried to suck it up and justify it, which is what I sensed she was doing anyway. Come to find out she spent that Christmas in a running car across the street from my apartment to catch a glimpse of what me and a new girl were up to (she admitted it herself in a bumbling email, had no idea).

    Shortly after I’d smirk at the idea that I became the prize once I was no longer available. But really, she was just looking for a return on her ego investment. Whether I was even there or not didn’t matter. Glad I got out of it.

  23. Strong points there! I have recently quit my boring as death programming job (which I took up only for money and nothing else really and engineering being a huge thing here in India) to do something more fun and social like work in the media and marketing industry and I firmly beleieve it’s because of red pill truths which made me re-consider what i really want to do.

    I am trying to get to the fact that most men take up jobs only to earn money—but for what? That’s when it struck me, it’s mostly to play the future provider role, “to be the man who provides”, to get married at around 29(like i said i’m in India), “to settle down” etc. Mostly all these include a woman as the central variable—the whole idea of settle down is nothing but “marriage and kids and the happy ever after”. But reading this blog and others and really thinking through it, i really do see the matrix code now! LOL! And it has all automatically help me put myself as the mental point of origin.

    In fact to really put it I hardly care about money in the sense I did upto a few months ago before reading this blog, it’s still important and i’m going to make loads of it but the pressure that says “you as a man must and MUST support a future family” is simple gone.

    I now even have this small theory that young boys as old as those passing out from school feel this implicit threat in the head that “they need lots of money to support a family or it’s going to be a loser’s/lonely life” is what makes many jump in to fields like engineering/medicine here in the first place.

    Thanks for all the ideas you share here rollo, you are really saving lives.

  24. Great post. Ok, my insights….to your questions:

    Is your first inclination to consider how something in your relationships will affect you or your girlfriend/wife/family/boss?

    Sometimes. I need to stop myself…cold. If I can’t stop thinking about it then I wait. If it feels uncomfortable, sometimes I’ll do it anyway just because going against what I hold to be “normal” might bring a surprise.

    When men fall into relationships with authoritarian, feminine-primary women, their first thought about any particulars of their actions is how his woman will respond to it, not his own involvement or his motivations for it. Are you a peacekeeper?

    Interesting, a good friend just told me he’s separating from his wife. My first advice to him was: don’t do anything rash. Don’t tell anyone because they’ll start to feel sorry for you and you’ll be put in a position of being a head case.

    My other pieces of advice to him would be: 1) don’t fight it, just go with it….if the wife is up for a separation, then let her have it… 2) this is now time to take the Red Pill and realize that the hardships you think are ahead alone are nothing compared to the hardships you’d face still being with someone who doesn’t want to be with you.

  25. @badpainter “It’s my understanding you can only expect them to trade up, or always be looking to, when the opportunity and desire coincide. Otherwise I have zero expectations.”

    I understand that we all have some innate advantages and disadvantages in the sexual marketplace. Some of us are ugly and balding (me). Some of us are not too bright, or have a touch of the ass-burgers, and so will never come across as socially on the ball. Some people grew up with not much testosterone during fetal development, and so lack testosteronized brains, and will never be able to think like a man. Some guys don’t have enough drive to overcome their manboobed inertia.

    So indeed, we may not all have the choice to use red pill truths in order to be in that top 10% and get the alpha treatment from attractive women.

    But it none the less seems to me as a waste of potential for people to use red pill ideas just to classify themselves as beta losers incapable of maintaining attraction for long enough to bother.

  26. This was a lot more difficult for me that a normal unplugging due to the fact that I had a BPD mother and had an incredible drive and attraction to emotionally damaged and controlling women, it is “repetition compulsion” fact. I have been working with a therapist for two years and its surprising the amount of work dissociation takes to put all things right. I was the peacekeeper, walking on eggshells around my mother and several girlfriends; it was always me making up for some perceived infraction of what they deemed to be appropiate behaviour.

    I’m glad I now understand the dynamics at play thanks to therapy and to Rollo you’re a life saver, quite literally. Since I commenced my therapy work depression has lifted, I’m lifting hard and heavy, back in the books for a post-grad and in the future an MBA. Its finally my turn to live my life the way I want it, I will never get back the years that my mother took away from me but I’m really excited about the future.

    Will I get married who knows! Will I have a child who knows! One thing is for sure over the next few years I will do as I please when I please and if a plate doesn’t like it then so be it. I’m currently seeing three girls one is just into meet ups for fucks only which is cool, but it’s always me who initiate the meet and sends the text maybe I’m over thinking it but the medium is the message.

    Currently, emotional abuse together with witnessing domestic violence is not considered to be trauma under the PTSD diagnosis. However, the combination of witnessing family violence and experiencing physical abuse does qualify as a traumatic event. WTF??????? Well when you have been through said experience I beg to differ, and there is no way that Melissa Sturge-Apple, Ph.D will come against the FI no matter how damning the evidence. Impact of parental conflict and emotional abuse on children and families Melissa L. Sturge-Apple, Michael A. Skibo, and Patrick T. Davies1

  27. Shortly after I’d smirk at the idea that I became the prize once I was no longer available. But really, she was just looking for a return on her ego investment. Whether I was even there or not didn’t matter. Glad I got out of it.

    @RP. Yep you got it. She was mad after because she viewed you as below her SMV and combined with her playing the submissive role should have been all that was needed to keep you there regardless of blatant admissions of how wonderful past flings with other males were. Even wonderful enough for a woman to save male nudes on a computer! Wow….just wow! What was that someone once said about men being more visual again? Things that make you go hmmmm.

  28. xsplat

    The desire is always genuine until she recites her repertoire to giggling girlfriends after she stripped-mined your bank account.

    But actions do indeed affect outcome. I would never say otherwise – and didn’t.

  29. Hedonist

    To paraphrase, you are maintaining frame. Good for you. Having done so you will serve yourself and please any woman you may or may not ultimately link up with. Perhaps, while maintaining your frame, you’ll find compatible women who have equally strong, but complementary, frames of their own.

  30. “Do you worry that putting yourself as your own first priority will turn a woman off or do you think it will engage her more fully?”

    Trick question. If you’re actually asking yourself this, you’re not putting yourself first.

    The correct answer is:”It’ll probably turn her off, but that’s irrelevant: it needs to be done.”

  31. @jimmythesaint – I have complex, chronic PTSD, with the initial onset being at the age of 8 due to being the victim of severe physical and emotional abuse. It brought me to my knees after a life threatening rock climbing fall 10 years ago. That trauma launched me into an escalating series of anxiety conditions including multi-year insomnia – if you’ve never had actual insomnia for a long time it’s hard to understand how debilitating it is. It came to head as I began to pass out and was hospitalized as when I went to the ER after having a bout of vertigo, my blood pressure dropped to 60/20 while they had the monitors on me, as I passed out again. I had that experience you don’t ever want to have in the hospital, as when I came to, I was encircled by docs and the crash cart and others trying to keep me from dying. All from PTSD.

    I have made a magnificent recovery from it. If others here are interested, let me know and I’ll put some commentary up here on the actual techniques I used – but I’m not sure it’s relevant to most here.

    Not all anxiety is PTSD. Not all trauma leads to PTSD. I’m not trying to diagnose you, and in fact see what you are saying, and will leave it to professionals so diagnose you. But I will say this. You’d better hope you don’t actually have PTSD because it’s a one way trip. It’s like when a cucumber is pickled – it will never be a cucumber again. Other forms of anxiety and the consequences of abuse are much easier to recover from than actual PTSD. Whatever you have/are, I wish you peace and strength. It sounds like you are on the right track.

    Last. One of the central impacts of living with a terroristic abuser is that you one develops an external locus of control versus an internal locus of control. Your point of “mental origin” as Rollo puts it here is never you because you develop a high state of vigilance when others are around so you can protect yourself, particularly when around your abuser. In a very real way, my recovery from PTSD was not complete until I learned about the Red Pill and ran into Rollo’s site. This gave me license to become much more self-centered and selfish. My mom died when I was 11 suddenly and I too had lots of stuff around women that gets activated in relationships. Need, trust issues, always bolting when I felt unsafe (and often based on little real info). I also desperately needed/wanted a woman’s touch and love. But the Red Pill cured me of all that. I get more support and love out of my relationships with men than I’ve ever gotten from a woman. And I now know why I didn’t get what I wanted – they were never offering that to me in the first place. And in fact, being emotionally needy destroyed the relationships, so it was like a riddle I could never solve.

    Not now. I suggest developing the selfish prick in you, as you seem to be doing. Looking at life as a self-improvement project is great and it seems you are well into it. My motto now? Me first and last. All my relationships are reciprocal and if I’m not getting what I want, I’m gone.

  32. 1. Are you your mental point of origin?
    1. A. I’m sure women, maybe especially my wife, would disagree, but I would say no.

    2. Is your first inclination to consider how something in your relationships will affect you or your girlfriend/wife/family/boss?
    2. A. Yes (wife). Even planning Dread is specifically considering how it will affect her.

    3. Are you a peacekeeper?
    3. A. Yes. And it was my reading of The Peacekeepers post that led to me … experimenting.

    4. Do you worry that putting yourself as your own first priority will turn a woman off or do you think it will engage her more fully?
    4. A. I wouldn’t have understood the question a few years ago. I was taught that putting one’s self first is bad (and I still think it is) and selfish, and I wouldn’t have thought it had anything to do with turning women on or off. I now know women are turned on by bad.

    5. Are you concerned that doing so may lead to your own form of solipsism, or do you think ‘enlightened self-interests’ serves your best interests and those with whom you want to help or become intimate with?
    5. A. Interesting question. I don’t think I’m capable of solipsism (and I’m sure women would disagree …) in any form because I’m too aware of others; my Theory of Mind is too highly developed. I ordinarily believe it would be best for others to defer to my opinion (otherwise if I did not think my opinion best then I would change opinions), and that it is altruistic to some extent for me try to get them to do so.

  33. Mansa Sundiata says “All the women in my family where convinced that I had found a girlfriend and was keeping her a secret.”

    I believe this is the distilled essence of Game right here.

  34. Glenn says “the only way I can keep any one woman from renting space in my head is by spinning plates”

    I agree. I fail to see how monogamy and Game are compatible. The only real question is the extent of a man’s physical involvement with other plates.

  35. @BangoTango re: “The fact that she felt comfortable saying that to me was even more proof, like she thought it wouldn’t bother me!”

    Been there, done that, too often. I call that sort of thing me being treated as one of the girls.

  36. @xsplat re: “behavior alone”

    I’m in total agreement, provided the women’s first exposure to you involves alpha from the get-go.

  37. @Darryl Long re: “its clear that there is something biological [mental] going on with pubescent girls in a way that is radically different from boys”

    Yes, 99.9% of girls go instantly insane at puberty. It’s not that they become boy crazy, they become plain crazy in a particular way. They instantly change from knowing what they want and being fun and game to not knowing what they want and being moody and weird. Unfortuantely that aspect never goes aay.

  38. 1. Are you your mental point of origin?

    Yes. No one else will look after your self interests you must do so yourself

    2. Is your first inclination to consider how something in your relationships will affect you or your girlfriend/wife/family/boss?

    Me. My 1st inclination is to consider how something will effect me. No one else will look after your self interests you must do so yourself. Family matters, but a job is only a job and women are replaceable

    3. Are you a peacekeeper?

    LOL

    4. Do you worry that putting yourself as your own first priority will turn a woman off or do you think it will engage her more fully?

    I don’t give a damn either which way

    5. Are you concerned that doing so may lead to your own form of solipsism, or do you think ‘enlightened self-interests’ serves your best interests and those with whom you want to help or become intimate with?

    Enlightened self-interests’ serves our best interest. I dance around this on my blog when I talk about my poly family and how helping the girls get their life together has bonded them to me, improved their day to day lives, improved our day to day living and made us all more fiscally secure. I am mission/ objective focused, pretty damn traditional on what I view as how to live etc so I doubt solipsism is a legit concern

  39. @ Glenn
    You really have had it rough. And anyone who has been through similar can learn from your experience . “I’ll put some commentary up here on the actual techniques I used – but I’m not sure it’s relevant to most here.” An arrow pointing in the general direction would be great.

    This, this all of this “Your point of “mental origin” as Rollo puts it here is never you because you develop a high state of vigilance when others are around so you can protect yourself, particularly when around your abuser. “
    While the therapist never did stick a label on it he did say it was on the severe end of the spectrum. I have last count the amount of occasion that my mother threatened to slice her writs with a bread knife it was a monthly occurrence to which we were made feel bad like we drove her to do it. Kitchen plates taking flight across the kitchen was also such a regular occurrence it began to feel normal. Slamming doors and generally going from good to bad mood several times a day was the daily schedule, when a kid gets up and hopes his “mother is in a good mood today” it’s a toxic place. We shall call it character building and cathartic.

    I really understand your perspective on neediness in relationships but im guessing you chose women with issues in a caretaking role?

  40. “I believe the same people who were the most ‘alpha’ in high school, i.e., the jocks, wanna be rockstars, thugs, etc. become less ‘alpha’ contextually as they grow older”

    I’m doing my own shit at high school when the head cheerleader sits next to me, says “you’re the guy who writes poetry” and wants to get to know me. Enlightened self-interests do serve your best interests, even in high school!

  41. @Jimmythesaint – I can relate to the amount of space a maniac for a parent takes up in one’s life. And I’ve often said that the emotional aspects of my Dad’s abuse were in some ways the worst. Never knowing when he was going to snap and throw a cup of hot coffee at my head – sigh…

    Resources: Here’s a bullet list. Doing some googling on these topics will send you in the right direction.

    1. Developing the skill of “resilience”. Think of this philosophically as developing a stoical philosophy towards life. http://www.annistonstar.com/news/article_7274b86a-5cd6-11e4-9dbb-8bf9577c4e92.html

    2. Developing the ability to compartmentalize one’s emotions. This one is very interesting because the feminized world we live in tells you the exact opposite, and this view is held in many therapeutic setting. Bullshit – learn how to take down your pain/trauma/agony/grief from the shelf, swim around in it and then put it back up on a shelf.

    3. Revisualization – Due to the neurological effects of trauma, it does not really respond much to talk therapy. However, revisiting the worst events in your mind and literally re-imagining them is incredibly helpful because it actually creates new neural pathways wrt to the memory. I imagine white swans landing in the middle of a scene and taking my abuser away, or the entire thing just becoming a circus with clowns – it takes away the charge of the memory.

    4. Emotional releasing – I used the Sedona Method Release Technique to develop the ability to first become aware of my emotional state and then to release emotions. Essentially via this technique I’ve become the master of my emotions versus being the victim of them.

    5. Exposure therapy – I could not do this because I could not go back but for vets and cops, being around gunfire and other triggers and learning how to deal with it, much like revisualization, is very helpful.

    6. Basic stress reducing techniques such as breathing, body relaxation etc.

    Predictably, women and in particular, radfems, have hijacked the idea of PTSD and the effects of trauma and have turned the dialog about it into a hash of nonsense. Their advice is not really advice at all because most of them don’t have PTSD. It’s been really cheapened by all this crap. The source of what I learned came from law enforcement and military types, who were actually trying to help people suffering as horrifically as I was – you know, rational men who were actually trying to get better after being debilitated horribly as I was. Not just hurt feelings or a little anxiety.

    I tried to find some of the sources I got this stuff from 4 years ago but web searching just came up with endless prattling about PTSD wrt to relationship problems with mostly women going on and on and on and on and on about it. That’s a symptom, not a root cause. Here’s one link with a ton of resources – some good, some bad. http://www.copshock.com/publications.php

    Look at this one – American Psychiatric Association, they don’t even have all the things I mention. http://www.apa.org/monitor/jan08/ptsd.aspx

    But they sure mention “Cognitive Behavioral Therapy”. Fyi, I’ve done 15 years of therapy and was introduced to CBT in 1981, when it was first developed and referred to as Rational Emotive Psychotherapy. It’s the latest trend in therapy but is utterly useless if you actually have PTSD. In fact, the worst thing one can do with an anxiety condition is engage in more internal self talk and analysis and “trying” to think one’s way out of anxiety. But it’s there, and you know why? Because it works on people who don’t have PTSD.

    I know this is off topic for many here, but I didn’t want to leave Jimmy high and dry. Hope it helps.

  42. I think the Mano-sphere understanding of “hypergamy” and “alpha” and “beta” are still fuzzy and vague. At its best is Roissy’s view that alpha = socio-sexual dominance and savvy. In my view, “alpha” is a stand in term for male psycho-sexual dominance with women. Alpha is not six pack abs or hard bodies as many here seem to think. Its also not being the CEO of a company. Those things can coincide with alpha but they are not alpha in itself.

    Alpha is male psychological strength in relation to women. Alpha always reveals itself as a superior psychological frame. Who is bending their psychological frame to whom? If the male is capitulating then he is more beta oriented, if he is not then he is more alpha oriented. A deeply ingrained sexual self-interest is internalized in the psychology of an alpha. This is often externally viewed as “entitlement”.

    However, this alpha psychology exists on a continuum. And humans are not just psychologies, they are flesh and blood beings. So what they look like and their socio-economic standing matters for their overall SMV. When analyzing relationship dynamics it is important to understand that women will sleep with a man whose TOTAL value crosses her threshold, not just his game value. But it gets more complicated still because there are two basic sexual mating markets; the short term sexual market and the longer term relationship market. Women emphasize one when they are younger (“alpha fux”) and the other when they are older (“beta bux”).

    Therefore putting all these factors together to make a legitimate SMV / game analysis is not easy. This Japanese 34 year old, sounds like she was “in between markets” as I put it. She wasn’t doing ONS sex but she also wasn’t doing serious husband shopping which is what many 33+ women do. She was hoping a short term fling would turn into a marriage commitment; that is a woman’s version of the LJBF stuff men do; ie a woman’s blue pill behavior (they can be just as stupid as men).

    This pasty ginger has a relative alpha status to a 34 year old Japanese 6.5. But put him in front of a beautiful white 23 year old 9 or 10 and lets see how “alpha” he is. To be alpha in the 23 year old’s eyes he will have to have high levels of game; and unless he’s a natural, which he probably isn’t because if that were the case he wouldn’t be banging 6s, then his game would have to be learned; ie PUA stuff. Which means he would have had to have been practicing it for YEARS. Not even Krauser and Torero can get 9s and 10s and they are pro-PUAs (well actually I think they each poached maybe one or two 9s tops, but that is out of hundreds – think about that).

    Game is a value add on. You add your game value (ie your learned “alpha-ness”) to your 1) height, physique and your facial handsomeness, 2) your wealth and lifestyle (toys help), and your 3) socio-economic status. Your total is your SMV. If you’ve got relatively little non-game value then your game will have to be through the roof to get attractive young girls. (See Giovanni’s college girl exploits at Roosh’s forum – that dude has game.)

    And to answer the question about older men, you need a well developed lifestyle and excellent game as an older man if you want to sleep with young girls. You don’t need the physique you had when you were 25 (if you had that to begin with), although you should be fit. You also don’t need the asshole attitude you had when you were 25 (if you had that to begin with). Alpha strength for you can be quiet and understated. But you need to be able to offer her the mentorship skills and lifestyle of a successful older man (and that doesn’t mean beta provider supplication). It is possible but very few older men have built their lives to support that lifestyle. The PUA BlackDragon would be your model there.

    But the main point is: SMV is total overall value with game value being the art of male psychological frame dominance. The younger and hotter the girl, the more frame dominance you will need. That is the red pill.

  43. ” . . .local status can have an affect on attraction.”

    A good deal of the reason that the FI has so relentlessly pursued rules and laws against social superiours having sex with those under (as it were) them, isn’t because women don’t want to have sex with them, but because they do.

  44. Great post Rollo… again, as usual.
    This is one of my last challenges gamewise. I beleive this is the core of what it all comes down to, and gets to the center of what defines alpha/beta and success with women and in life.
    So many hones and open answers I think I should share mine as well
    I was raised in an extremely abusive environmnet as well. Father wa a violent alchocolic and my mother was very ill, and become ill after my birth- a fact that was always used to get me under control and to drive guilt deep into me. It’s something when your father tells you you are responsible for your dying mothers health. Over time I became the caretaker in the family, and like some others here, I have been diagnosed with C-ptsd.
    As mentioned above, when you are raised in these types of environment your ego and psyche never truly develop properly. I became the caregiver. I even grew to be proud of the role, and was for most of my life until I understood just how I came to it and how twisted I had been by it.
    By the time I was 16 I was fully responsible for caring and even bathing my mother, I also worked full time to pay all the bills since my father left. Another things about these traumatic childhoods- one develops an abandonment complex which makes you attract people who will do exactly that- or you become someone they will abandon due to your behavior.
    To make a long story short, these tendencies of 1. being a caregiver 2. having week ego identity that looked to others for signs of what to do and be- hypervigilence of trauma survivors and 3. endless anxiety of the massive disruption of your HPA axis literally set me down a path of ruin.
    I find it amazing I was able to function as well as I did and compared to many still managed to attract girls etc. but I never even came close- not once, to being a full human being or achieving my potential.
    Of all these traits I found the worst one in life is the tendency to caretake. If there is one thing that will dry up a vagina and lower your value in this world it is that. And that was my entire identity, and one that I now- at 40- struggle to kill as it is so deeply ingrained it is a reflex. Caretaking literally is the signal to the world that you are the lowest on the totem pole. We like to think otherwise, that people who are giving and caring are the most respected. but its not true.. in a primal way we all know the guy doing the caretaking is often the one at the bottom.
    I should mention though, this is especially true with women, but not so much, or as extreme with men. I have had many male friends and groups and men tend to look at someone who takes care of things as competent and reliable. Men will respect your need to resolve problems and fix things.
    The crazything is how normal it seems to you, how you don’t even catch what your doing. For my entire life I had a repeating pattern I still struggle to break. They meet me and are attracted, and looking at it they assume I am alpha or at least very desirable, then slowly- or sometimes quickly depending on their tolerance for beta- they will slowly be turned off by my caretaking and need.. they will slowly begin the swing to another branch.
    This is something I am working on with a coach and have made great strides recently.
    I have come very far and learned a great deal on top of the great deal I already knew about psychology and am improving quickly. My greatest sadness – which I allow myself to grieve as grieving (not whining or wallowing) is a very important healer. I have often thought of writing a workbook about changing your inner beta, with exercises I have developed with my coach and based on my healhcare background to literally reprogram myself. The changes are coming fast and strong. This blog has helped much as well. Rollo has provided invaluable information that I have used to guide my rebuilding of my my broken ego. And by ego I mean not the common use, but the deepest meaning of your sense of self and identity.
    And thanks to everyone for all the comments and openness here in this blog, it is not just Rollo who makes a difference, but all you guys have been invaluable. I have lurked here for a long time before ever commenting and the comments are sometimes just as helpful as the OP

  45. @kfg re: laws.

    I’ve come to the conclusion that sexual and relationship laws (and customs) are in place to try to regulate women’s sexuality by restricting their choices in men. Feminism comes to the same conclusion from the opposite side.

  46. xsplat – “So indeed, we may not all have the choice to use red pill truths in order to be in that top 10% and get the alpha treatment from attractive women.

    But it none the less seems to me as a waste of potential for people to use red pill ideas just to classify themselves as beta losers incapable of maintaining attraction for long enough to bother.”

    I suspect I misunderstood your usage of the word expectations. I only expect women to be what they are. To expect more seems a fool’s errand. 

    From the previous posts comments RE: relationships

    xsplat – “I tend to think that deep down most people would prefer more of a longer term sensual and emotional connection to a doting woman. Of course such setups are fraught with difficulties and as far as I know are mostly temporary.”

    Temporary, and replaceable  is easily  accomplished, relatively low cost, and mostly fun. It’s obviously worth the effort. To go for something other than temporary the additional benefits are unclear to me, but the differences in cost and risk are immediately obvious, and the expectations are the same because women are women regardless of our goals, plans, designs, and desires.

  47. @ Hobbes

    I get your point about caretaking. I am a natural alpha and hold frame in an organic way at this point (although it was not like that before). However, I was raised in a very warm home where everyone was very warm to each other. I am very caring toward my partner and when she goes through issues, I am very loyal but purely within my frame. I make it very clear that all of my help and support are conditional upon appreciation and reciprocal behavior. It is possible to be caring and strong and everything still comes down to frame control. Being a tampon for an unappreciative person is just he’ll (been there done that with my ex-wife….hence the Red Pill realization).

  48. @Bango Tango and @ReticentPill:

    There’s a lot of truth in both of you guy’s comments, so I won’t bother to quote them. You guys are both getting at the truth which I’ve said before. In that, Alpha is instinctive and women recognize it the moment they see it. It is, for the most part, visual. I’ve experienced this not only through the use of tinder but from my social circle pulls as well.
    I would have (and still do from time to time) guys telling me that the only reason I pull so well was because of my good looks. At first, I simply said, “Nah man, its all confidence bro.” But now, I know the truth and that it is your look that gives you your alpha status (again, amongst young girls).

    Saying these truths wouldn’t be so bad had it not been for the puas who started off this blue pill thinking by saying stuff like, “Looks don’t matter” or “Girls love you for your confidence only. It’s the sexiest thing on a man.” While confidence and behaviors have their place, they cannot compete with genuine good looks. A girl does respond sexually to a handsome face and muscular body the same way a man does to a cute girl with a proportionate, hourglass body.

    This is primarily why I disagree with Rollo on his maxim: “Alpha is a state of mind and not a demographic.”

    I believe Alpha is a demographic and it is only reserved for a few selected men. If it were only a mental state, then it would have the potential for everyman to achieve and if everyman where to achieve it, then eventually, it would be rendered useless and women would start to use other features in a man to distinguish him as a true alpha.

    But I also understand that an alpha state of mind does have its place but it is not nearly as effective if the man doesn’t look alpha to begin with. Also, I looked into that Corey guy and he definitely has that idgaf attitude many guys I know have. I’m not as carefree as him personally, but I can really understand why he would be able to pull hot girls. Funny thing is, this guy would pull more girls than the most technically proficient PUA out there.

    Just look at his attitude in this other clip:

  49. “If it were only a mental state, then it would have the potential for everyman to achieve and if everyman where to achieve it, then eventually, it would be rendered useless and women would start to use other features in a man to distinguish him as a true alpha”

    this is terrible logic, especially since this site is about rational. To see this use substitution

  50. Rollo’s questions point to an interesting idea, that of time orientation. To be your own metal point of origin suggests an attitude of no time but the present. I suspect that most of those who’s answers defer to the immediate interests of others are doing so because they believe that by doing so they are investing in a future payoff, or the belief that stability can be created and preserved. At least that was the basis of much of my thinking when I behaved that way. 

    The error in such thinking should be obvious. Simply, when it comes to dealing with people, women especially, there is no future only the now. Especially women for whom there is no past, and no future, only the current emotional state of now. Because their focus is only in the present there is no possibility of building a future reserve of good feels, or goodwill. As such there little reason to fear creating bad feels, because emotions are vaporous, temporary and insubstantial. There was never an opportunity to invest in the first place, so fear of blowing the deal by focusing on one’s immediate want, need, desire, whatever is just silly. The same sort silly that leads one to negotiate desire in the first place, and negotiation is a hinderence to acting in the now.

  51. From anarcho’s linked article
    “The researchers found that females at their time of peak fertility actively sought to mate with the males that bullied them.”
    “Feldblum says he is interested to find out whether some males might find success in paternity in kinder, gentler ways such as spending more time grooming females.”

    Heh, heh.

  52. Hobbes: Godspeed mate… Very heavy, but very enlightening. Gave me some great perspectives on my own childhood and “caretaking” behaviors, although the dial wasn’t turned up as high on the dysfunction as yours.

    Same general premise though… Divorced parents, fistfights with dad, bailing mom out of her fucked up decisions. It scars and absolutely manifests itself in your long term thinking/outlook.

    This was particularly relevant:

    “For my entire life I had a repeating pattern I still struggle to break. They meet me and are attracted, and looking at it they assume I am alpha or at least very desirable, then slowly- or sometimes quickly depending on their tolerance for beta- they will slowly be turned off by my caretaking and emotional neediness.. they will slowly begin the swing to another branch.”

    I definitely had a pretty good mix of situational alpha and beta behaviors in the past. Pretty high n-count because of looks, but on those occasions I became emotionally attached, she’d swing to another branch every time. I’ve now finally gotten to the point where I can observe the feelings and emotions dispassionately without actually acting on them (caretaking).

    “Pump-n-dump” never really worked for me because the sheer intimacy of the sexual act itself always resulted in some level of emotional investment. I still have that tendency, but now I recognize it for what it is and can keep it in check.

    Horrifyingly embarrassing story: In my early 20s became emotionally attached to a new girlfriend… She wasn’t even that great – maybe a 6. Fucked her for the first time and in the post-coitus afterglow told her I loved her. The End… She scampered for the hills lickety split. I wanted to care for her… She wanted a good hard fucking. I still cringe over that one, but now I can at least do it with a chuckle.

    Didn’t realize until years later and several more mistakes like that just how cringeworthy that sort of behavior is.

  53. @jf12

    “From anarcho’s linked article:

    “The researchers found that females at their time of peak fertility actively sought to mate with the males that bullied them.”’

    And right in the next sentence:

    “The researchers note that the evolutionary lineage for humans and chimps split some seven million years ago and that the mating systems for the two species are different.”

    Heh, heh.

  54. “To be your own metal point of origin suggests an attitude of no time but the present.”

    I’m in a detraining and cutting cycle right now, in preperation for a winter resistence training cycle, in order that in the spring I can retake a speed record I lost a month ago.

    When I’m pulling a lift or taking an FTP test, I am certainly focused entirely in the now, but the now has a future payoff in mind.

    The payoff, however, is largely abstract and entirely my own. There is no practical value, not even to myself, let alone a woman, in being able to get to the market a second faster. It’s likely the only person in the world, other than myself, who gives a shit about it is the guy who took my record.

    It’s a guy thing.

  55. This is primarily why I disagree with Rollo on his maxim: “Alpha is a state of mind and not a demographic.”
    I believe Alpha is a demographic and it is only reserved for a few selected men.

    Bear in mind this ‘maxim’ (if you want to call it that) was in response to the tendency of men (and women) to self-define Alpha to better fit their own image, or an idealization of a pro-social man.

    Alpha = “Leader of Men®”, leader of industry, positive role model, etc. i.e. a demographic. My point was that a drug dealer, convicted gang leader and Genghis Khan are just as ‘Alpha’ from an anti-social perspective.

    Re: Corey Worthington

    Funny thing is, this guy would pull more girls than the most technically proficient PUA out there.

    Agreed, because Corey never learned or internalized anything else but to be his own mental point of origin (thus his child-like demeanor). He’s got the body, looks and attitude to signal Alpha, but his mindset is what makes him an exemplar of Alpha.

    He doesn’t try to be Alpha, he is Alpha.

  56. ” . . . his child-like demeanor . . .”

    Is because his point of origin only exists in the now.
    Genghis Kahn’s point of origin projected generations into the future.

    Cory is antisocial. Genghis forged a society.
    Cory got into legal trouble. Genghis became the law, the Great Kahn.

    It isn’t that alphas only exist in a short time span perception. It’s that the perception of time span determines whether an alpha becomes jailed, or the jailor.

  57. We are trained from birth to put everyone wellbeing ahead of our own, thinking that it’s the “right” thing to do, that people will respect and admire us for it. But in the end people just laugh at you for being such a fool, I was like that until high school when I realized that the more you do for people the more they will expect from you(especially women).

    Alawys put yourself first, because no one else will.

  58. Call me crazy, but I’m pretty sure Genghis was on a lot of people’s ‘douchebag’ list during his time.

    I get what you’re saying, but anti-social is really defined by which social order a person is ‘anti’ to begin with.

  59. That’s like calling Alexander the Great and Julius Caesar anti-social. Given how Caesar died he certainly was on a list

  60. Females are biologically programmed to gravitate toward power (survival/status of young, and such). Game teaches men to ape that perception of power. Works in the short term, but won’t stand the test of time (divorce rape). Far better to develop the real thing. Upon achieving that, yes, game is a very sound (and fundamental) management technique. Failing that, game is a salve, for a time, only… until you’re on to your next spinning wheel.
    Come on, men. You know IN YOUR BONES what it means to be a man. Stop shopping here and elsewhere for a shortcut that will only wear your ass out. Integrate the fundamental principles of being a man, and THEN use game to manage the concomitant energy orbiting your life (children, family, playmates, employees, community, females). Or, buy into some false facsimile to assuage yourself in the short term… good luck with that.
    But, I, for one, believe that you are better than that. See, the whole of the manosphere is trying to convince you that you can fulfill your desires with females without first becoming a man. Do you really believe that? Can you point to ONE analog in the mammalian kingdom where that holds? Didn’t think so.
    It is high fucking time for the ENTIRE manosphere to begin teaching (especially to young men), how, exactly, to be a man, and to back off on teaching men how to ‘pretend’ to be a man long enough to sniff some butt. Yes, learn some tricks to get a taste of some snatch (and pay through the nose, if that’s your path). But, for the long term, focus on learning how to be a man. Your ROI on that will continue right up to the point that you finally check out of this whole thing called life.
    Why does the MANosphere only ever talk about getting into panties, instead of EVER talking about how to just simply be a man to begin with? Answer: it’s a far easier pitch (for $ in some cases). Learning to be a man requires dissolving the lies you were raised upon, and introspecting oneself for the fundamental reasons that your love life isn’t where you wish it to be. Learning how to cut through the lies of your upbringing is difficult, but the answers are out there.
    You can hate on this concept, and continue seeking for those ephemeral sniffs of unworthy butt, or you can look yourself in the mirror and ask, “Why am I not the man that I should be?” That will unleash a cascade of very difficult introspection, but if you are strong enough to survive it, and come out the other side, then your love life will be LOCKED, hence forward.
    The level of investment required to learn to successfully sniff butt is more or less equal to the level of investment required to just say fuck it, and step once and for all into your manhood. One pays off in the short term; one pays off for the long term.
    Ponder this: the whole of the manosphere is focused upon females—upon how to successfully sniff their butts (understandable). Why, instead, is it not focused upon how to be MALES, without regard to the lesser sex? This is especially important for our younger brethren. It only does them limited good to teach them how to sniff butt. Far better to teach them how to be men to begin with, which many (most?) of them never had.
    Older manosphere men, come on, we owe more to subsequent generations than to teach them how to most effectively play to the FI, without first teaching them to be men. Cart before the horse.
    I suppose everyone calculates their own personal life ROI with different variable inputs.
    I prefer the sure thing. Good fortune, gents.

  61. Manosphere2.0,

    Your comment reminds of the 2004 Election when John Kerry kept talking is “plan” a better plan, a smarter plan, etc. Yet never once were any details provided. So I ask you how do we become men? Details please. You did provide a nice pep talk.

    So far Redpill, and Game are the only actionable, working advice we have albeit imperfect.

  62. too point zero, when Rollo says

    “It didn’t take my doing anything for a woman to get laid or hold her interest. All I did was make myself my mental point of origin. It’s when I started putting women as a goal, making them into more than just a source of enjoyment, that I transferred that mental point of origin to her and I became the necessitous one”

    he is not saying make females your focus, read the post again

  63. “I’m pretty sure Genghis was on a lot of people’s ‘douchebag’ list during his time.”

    In his time George the Washington was on the ‘douchebag’ list of George the Third, and vice versa. One was a King, One rejected a crown.

    Both were naturals who had the fortune to be born into positions that fostered that. Both could be deadly. Neither (in times of sanity), was anti-social. They were foundations upon which societies stood.

    ” . . . anti-social is really defined by which social order a person is ‘anti’ to begin with.”

    Anybody who isn’t on somebody’s ‘douchebag’ list is doing something wrong. That doesn’t mean that everybody is anti-social. If that were true it would negate your original point.

    Genghis thought socially. He didn’t just ramapge around willy-nilly, as some violent mood struck him. He planned to forge a society, stimulated by anger at the anti-social behaviour of others. Forging is a violent business, but that does not inherently make it anti-social.

    Corey is anti-social because the very idea of society doesn’t enter his head. He does what he wants, when he wants it, without any consideration of its effect on others. He isn’t just on the wrong side of the fence, he doesn’t know a fence exists. He is palpably puzzled by the attitude of the interviewer.

    I’d rather meet Corey in combat than Genghis at the head of a horde, but I’d rather attend a party thrown by Genghis.

  64. @New Yorker
    One thing I have learned is there is a healthy form of caring and an unhealthy form of caretaking. It sounds, like with your background, you got to see what healthy caring is all about,and even then, given the feral nature of women today, you still had problems!! smh
    I’ve gotten much better at it and seeing when caregiving is appropriate and healthy. Come to think of it, much of the difference, comes down to exactly what this post is about. To care with yourself as the center of your frame, is healthy. To be dependent and reliant on an external source of identity is when you run into problems.
    This is a personal anecdote, but I think it may serve others, so I’ll say it.
    When I was a kid, I’m talking pre school, I have memories of consoling my mother the mornings after- or even the evenings of his abuse. We would run away from him, or she would be bruised and hurt the morning after one of his benders and I remember, as a kid, I would soothe her, and take care of her.
    What I came to realize is that the small child soothing his mother was really soothing his mother, he was soothing himself, but having no identity, no healthy sense of self, he instead could only soothe himself by soothing her.
    It was a hell of a realization when it hit me and understood it, because memories of me doing stuff like that as a kid were actually painful memories I recalled with a sense of pride- proof that I was worthy of love, of being a good person etc. So this thing I did as a desperate child not only became an unhealthy habit, but like some stockholm syndrome sufferer I became proud of my damaged self.
    Still hurts me to think of it. But its realizations like that that have open my eyes…
    But I want to say, you don’t need a terrible childhood to absorb these influences of externalized sense of worth towards women.. from the time we are a child, everything tells us, constantly, that our worthiness of love, of companionship and of life itself must be earned by pleasing women.
    Its like child abuse on a social level

  65. @Badpainter
    “So I ask you how do we become men? Details please.”
    Appreciate the feedback.
    How to become men? Well, that’s the question, isn’t it? Hence, 2.0.
    I have a shit ton of my own thoughts on it, and probably will start in the future some kind of community for its exploration. Wasn’t my intention today, but merely to get the community thinking about a 2.0 version of our current incarnation.
    To rise to the occasion, I’ll provide one example of something that could grow to something much more meaningful, in time to come (I’m happy to provide more, should a nascent 2.0 begin to develop):
    But, for now, here’s one: Ok, let’s address the theme of this very blog: the feminine imperative (FI). The one thing that I’ve learned from Rollo is the FI. I readily admit that the FI was in my blind spot – it just never directly impacted me in my personal life (upon reflection, I realized the tremendous INDIRECT impact that it’s had in my life, so, thanks Rollo.)
    But look, upon being humble enough to realize it, one has two choices: submit to it, or dominate it. I (subconsciously) chose to dominate it. It wasn’t easy. I experienced a shit ton of arguments with female friends, lovers, family, that I would have preferred to never engage. But, engage I did. It was ugly, to say the least. I have the scars to prove it. But today, not only do those females agree with me, but they agree AGAINST the female cunt agitprops they had previously listened to… vehemently. Do I trust them to have my back in the long term? Not in a million fucking years. But, in the short term, they’re mine. I can build on that, all that any of us can hope for.
    However, I’m far less interested in teaching young men how to fight the current war that we are waging, than I am about educating them on how to be men, so as to avoid such battles in their own lives.
    How does that work? This deserves its own website (which I very well may start). But, with respect you your feedback, to put one foot forward, I would say this: young men, center yourselves in your own selves. Know your priorities. If you have kids, they should fall as a priority second to only you as a male… so that they can learn from that. Beyond that, males, if YOU chose to bring spiritual beings into this world, why? Why did you do that? To feed your own ego? Or to raise up some badass motherfuckers? Whichever, you’ll have to live with that.
    Females who are outside of your immediate clan (your investment) should come WAY down the ladder of your priorities. (I LOVE females, but they are what they are.) If those 3rd party females foresaked their own males for some nebulous concept of feminism, then let them rot with the “males” with whom they threw their hats into the ring. (The very manboobs who attack the manospshere.)
    I think that is a good primer for the discussion of Manosphere 2.0. As healthy red blooded males, we take care of OURS. Let the rest of the traitors fend for themselves, extracting resources from those from whom they are capable of extracting resources, but NOT from the males here.
    Does that mean that we must abrogate our LOVE? No fucking way. We love, and we will continue to love. Nothing will stop us from that.
    Hope I answered your question, at least in its first iteration.

  66. so you say ” center yourselves in your own selves” and Rollo says “your mental point of origin” – notice anything there?

  67. @manosphere
    Saying you are fighting the FI is like saying you are going to defeat biology, which is, ultimately, what the FI is all about. You can pursue your own agenda and goals which, in the end, immunize you from the FI, but as you even admit (won’t trust them in a million years) the FI is still there.
    Its seems like the one who needs to serve women is you. You are playing rescuer, you will turn those whores into Madonnas, yet all along saying that those Madonnas will still be whores, deep inside.
    The best way to “fight” the FI is for every man to decide for himself what to do with RP knowledge.
    The last thing any guy wants is to free himself from the FI after swallowing the bitter Red Pill, only to have to deal with living up to your Masculine Imperative invention. Fuck that.
    How about everybody just mind their own business and live their own fucking life without this constant harassment and judgement? We get enough of that shit from women.
    So no thanks.

  68. @10×10 . Great comment. There was a time when Roissy’s voice was predominant in the manosphere, and he over-emphasized game. I disagreed and kept putting forth the same conception that you outlined above; the confluence of overlapping traits making up a total value.

    It took a long time but that conception is now more dominant.

    But there was still resistance in other places to including other values into what raises overall value. Values such as money. Money to women is the same as tits to men. Men will be attracted to women with small tits, and some value tits less than others, but overall men find tits to add to attraction.

    Every now and then even the greatest writers will be just slightly off in one or another portion of their mental map. Usually it’s harmless, but sometimes it’s not – for instance the notion that dark triad traits are the best seduction tool is pernicious – so poisonous that it can fuck up a man’s life. The confidence is king meme can lead a man to neglect his future.

    But everywhere in the world, including all message boards and blog comment sections, going against the memes of the leaders and their followers will be met with resistance.

    On this blog I see just a very few slight mis-steps. One is a rigidity in women’s stages of mating. Another is a lack of inclusion of finances into overall value and thus hind-brain physical attraction. Another is a lack of personal experience with using strong lust as a tool to create lust – or escalating in the face of resistance. I wish I could remember where the studies are on that one, but it’s been scientifically studied, and we have all sorts of rapey women’s romance novels to show us how that works. And another is the difficulty in explaining mate guarding as an effective tool to spike and increase attraction, when done from the position of an attractive selfish man with hand.

    Of course overall this blog is one of the best resources, and is my personal favorite, of all manosphere or red-pill related blogs. Incredibly well written and thought out, and great contributions in ideas and presentation.

    Other ideas we are going to start to have to notice is how women are not homogenous in how they rate certain values in men. Some are more into looks, some more into social power, etc. And men are also very different in how much they prefer purity and fidelity. Our strategies on both sides are far from homogenous.

    As women get turned on by men that other women want, it’s even cultural what traits some will value, and so what traits will get the physically wet, with genuine desire. In some places money is more valued – and that does not correlate with beta bucks.

    So there is another problem with the mental map here – the alpha fucks beta bucks conception has the contrast turned way up and uses of money that arouse attraction are ignored or downplayed.

    I know that in speaking to betas of the overall map, it’s difficult not to be cartoonish about it and paint in stark contrasts. However if one wants to do more than just accept betatude and work on increasing overall value in order to get the alpha treatment, he will need to know how to leverage all possible tools to do so. And that includes money, it includes escalation, and it includes mate guarding.

  69. Hobbes: “You can pursue your own agenda and goals which, in the end, immunize you from the FI . . .”

    You must not live in a mandatory helmet state.

  70. @xsplat that was a well-written comment with a lot that I agree with, in particular “how women are not homogeneous in how they rate certain values in men” and “the alpha fucks beta bucks conception has the contrast turned way up and uses of money that arouse attraction are ignored or downplayed” (I was talking to a friend who was waxing his expensive sports car, when a woman stopped to ask for directions, she didn’t need directions to a provider)

    I still think you need to articulate your version of mate guard. For example in your comment in a previous post (the woman putting nuts in your shirt), I think the mate guarding that who have turned the woman on is if he had punched you out in her cabin.

  71. @kfg- Ha! noted. I my have stated that a bit more emphatically than I meant. But I think the gist gets across.
    Being aware of RP and FI allows a man to plan his defenses and avoid the worst of it, if he is diligent.

  72. @Hobbes

    Saying you are fighting the FI is like saying you are going to defeat biology, which is, ultimately, what the FI is all about.
    *Fightng nothing, that’s the point. When one is living one’s life focused on a laser mission, there is no fight.

    You can pursue your own agenda and goals which, in the end, immunize you from the FI, but as you even admit (won’t trust them in a million years) the FI is still there.
    *That’s like immunizing oneself against microbes. There is NO immunization from all of this… only building up one’s immunity.

    Its seems like the one who needs to serve women is you. You are playing rescuer, you will turn those whores into Madonnas, yet all along saying that those Madonnas will still be whores, deep inside.
    *I neither celebrate females for what they are, nor do I excuse their behavior. I am a biological organism living in this ecosphere. I accept that for what it is, princess.

    The best way to “fight” the FI is for every man to decide for himself what to do with RP knowledge.
    The last thing any guy wants is to free himself from the FI after swallowing the bitter Red Pill, only to have to deal with living up to your Masculine Imperative invention. Fuck that.
    * There is no fight. There is only for males to realize the truth of the situation.

  73. Hobbes: “But I think the gist gets across.”

    Indeed. I simply can’t resist a straight line. Especially if it’s actually illustrative of a point.

    Redlight: “I was talking to a friend who was waxing his expensive sports car, when a woman stopped . . .”

    I’ve owned an Alpha Romeo and a Maserati. Finding a way to keep the passenger seat warm was never really an issue. Sometimes I drove the Escort just to be left the hell alone.

  74. @manosphere- at this point you are saying nothing that hasnt then been said by Rollo in this post.
    you say:
    “Fightng nothing, that’s the point. When one is living one’s life focused on a laser mission, there is no fight”
    then say:
    “However, I’m far less interested in teaching young men how to fight the current war that we are waging”
    Do you even check yourself for contradictions?

    “I accept that for what it is, princess”
    And with this comment you reveal yourself for what you are. Just couldn’t resist the bitchy insult,
    Look, your selling crap. From a atop a pony only you think its a high horse.
    Good luck on your mission, to “dominate” the FI by arguing with all the females in your social circle, all the while knowing they’ll sell you down a river anyway for all your efforts. Sounds like a superb selling point for the troops.
    I don’t think you’ve really thought this through

  75. @Rollo and “alpha is not a demographic” and “Bear in mind this ‘maxim’ (if you want to call it that) was in response to the tendency of men (and women) to self-define Alpha to better fit their own image, or an idealization of a pro-social man.”

    You may want to examine if you are lately sliding into the same tendency and defining the demographic according to your personal experiences.

    For instance you never felt the need to strongly escalate, and so now seem to define alpha as not needing to strongly escalate.

    There are ugly men who get the alpha treatment by high SMV attractive young women.

    So if you want your mental map to be inclusive of as much data as possible, you’ll include looks as well all the other overall traits that add to a mans value and induce the alpha treatment.

    So far you’ve had no experience with the value that women impute onto men who escalate hard. But you don’t necessarily need personal experience of it – there are thousands of romance books along that theme.

  76. @Hobbes
    Whoa, Hobbes, we’re on different wavelengths, and that’s cool. Let me break it down for you by wavelength:

    Do you even check yourself for contradictions?
    +++
    Whoa, where are Rollo and I disagreeing? Methinks you’re seeing things that don’t exist.

    Look, your selling crap.
    +++Please send me the cash, because I have received zero remuneration from speaking my piece on Rollo’s blog. Rollo, you holding out on me, dude?

    From a atop a pony only you think its a high horse.
    +++only concerned about the “middle” horse that the majority of manosphere men are reading, but thanks for your concern.

    Good luck on your mission, to “dominate” the FI by arguing with all the females in your social circle, all the while knowing they’ll sell you down a river anyway for all your efforts. Sounds like a superb selling point for the troops.

    +++On this we agree, yes, cowards will sell their champions down the river. It’s the way of the world. Has been going on for thousands of years. Not going to change anytime soon, methinks.

    I don’t think you’ve really thought this through
    +++Believe me, I’ve thought YOU through, many times over. YOU are who I write for. Smile, yo! There are those of us in this fucked up world who actually care for YOU. Peace.

  77. Yes, I know you count looks. I was suggesting that lately you’ve been over-counting them, and dis-counting aggressive dominance. Because you assume that if initial physical based attraction is not high at the beginning, then a man is not alpha, and you talk about dominant escalation as a beta move.

  78. And of course your idea seems to be that money is only attractive to women in later stages of mating, and only from a beta bucks type of attraction, not sexual attraction.

    Which does not include the data of sports cars turning young women on.

  79. Perhaps I wasn’t clear:

    Looks.

    Assets.

    Game.

    Have two. Three is best, but if you only have one, Game is the most essential.

    I have no doubt that Charles Bukowski Game does work for guys like Charles Bukowski, but there’s a fine line between selling that to a girl and selling it to yourself.

    Because you assume that if initial physical based attraction is not high at the beginning, then a man is not alpha, and you talk about dominant escalation as a beta move.

    I assume no such thing.
    https://therationalmale.com/2011/12/01/command-presence/

    What’s bothering you is the conflict between an organic genuine desire based on a woman’s arousal and having to negotiate for a mitigated desire based on her necessities. Is it better to be desired because she hot for you, or because she’s fearful of you?

    Alpha dominance, and confident escalation is definitely a component to that arousal, but the necessity to oversell it to a less than compliant woman is time better spent with a new prospect, don’t you think?

    Which does not include the data of sports cars turning young women on.

    Women don’t get turned on by expensive sports cars, they get turned on by what they represent and the emotional association they get from the thrill of riding and being seen in one. Conspicuous consumption is a tingle inducement for most women.

  80. “While confidence and behaviors have their place, they cannot compete with genuine good looks”.

    @Tinder Master. And confidence and behavior comes as a result of good looks which comes first. This is so obvious that it seems weird to actually have to say it. When young boys are growing up they develop a sense of their smv by the response they get from girls and this response is completely based on the boy’s looks at that age because they have no real “status” other then that. Gradually the good looking boys learn they are attractive to women which grows their confidence while the not as attractive boys pick up they are not which diminishes confidence.

    These are formative years that shape a person’s personality into the future and that is very hard to change because it is an emotional imprint at a crucial period of development. That doesn’t mean it can’t change, it can be changed to a degree but it is not as easy as saying “just have more confidence, learn game and everything will be fine” which is such a stupid mantra and has no basis in reality. I’m a strong advocate of game and red pill knowledge, but I’m with you when it gets to the point of ridiculousness that ignores basic facts it is not being honest and is genuinely not helpful.

    Back in the 80’s Miami Vice became one of the biggest hit TV shows in the history of television and it was all based on the good looks of the main character played by Don Johnson. With the perfect peacock hairdo and the five o’clock shadow dressed in the latest men’s fashion he became an icon of alpha. I remember everyone who was a man wanted to look like him. I was 12 years old at the time and I wanted to look like him. It was even put in as a joke in The Wedding Singer, guy dressed in the white blazer and the pink t shirt wanting to be Sonny Crockett because that was the truth. Guys all aspired to look like him. The top dog alpha.

    Did you know Don Johnson lost his virginity to his 16 year old babysitter? How many of us can say that? I’m sure it had nothing to do with his looks though, he was just an early pua spitting game at a young age lol. Bottom line girls know the alpha when they SEE him as you said. Ironic side note, at the same time he was busting drug dealers on Miami Vice in real life he was doing coke with politicians and lining up sex orgies with models.

    http://www.azcentral.com/story/entertainment/people/2014/06/27/don-johnson-lost-virginity/11447389/

  81. “I have no doubt that Charles Bukowski Game does work for guys like Charles Bukowski . . .”

    I could probably pull it off, but I just can’t drink that much. And I could probably be heavyweight champion of the world, if I were a heavyweight, and could, ya know, box.

    I’m afraid I’m not very good for your business. I’m a coffee sort of guy. I drink to get things done, not to forget.

    “Women don’t get turned on by expensive sports cars, they get turned on by what they represent and the emotional association they get from the thrill of riding and being seen in one. ”

    Exactly why I had the Escort. The Masser certainly increased the number of women I met, but as a numbers game, conversion from wanting to warm my passenger seat to warming my seat wasn’t any better than being a bum with a guitar. The attention was often more annoying than beneficial.

  82. I think in this looks topic, we lean way too much on the nature and forget the massive impact on nurture. I generally think it’s a problem with alot of RP. We really forget that nurture, while not over riding nature, can change its expression. In human beings
    As Pavlov showed, a limbic response and reflex can be trained and elicited through nurture. The brain literally rewires itself to account for experience and nurture.
    To the dog, it does not just hear a bell and feel itself salivate, it probably FEELS hungry.
    In other words you can show different women the same image of a very attractive male, and yes, their limbic systems will react to the image… but how the rest of the brain interprets the signal, how she experiences it, all depends on her wiring as it evolved through nurture.
    When I first started dating my ex who was a 7-8, I was also seeing her friend, this nordic- Finnish- blonde beauty. She was tall and stunning. I also didn’t feel much for her. My ex was an Irish brunette, very pretty, but the Finnish girl was as close to a 10 as any woman I’ve dated. For some reason I was completely turned on by my ex, but not too into the Finnish girl. When I noticed I had a chance and growing interest from my ex, I dumped the Finnish girl without even a second thought.
    And I am a guy, and we know how much looks and visuals mean to us. And even now, post red pill, I’d rather have sex with my ex than Finnishgirl.
    How do we account for this? Well, nurture, completely wired my brain to find something about my ex hotter than a clearly much more beautiful woman.
    Looks will help with women who like your looks.

  83. “Alpha dominance, and confident escalation is definitely a component to that arousal, but the necessity to oversell it to a less than compliant woman is time better spent with a new prospect, don’t you think?”

    No, and I think you are not really grasping my point.

    A less than compliant woman becomes a more compliant woman through the very act of seduction.

    You are implying that the seduction is done before she gets on the bed. If she isn’t fully complying by that point, then there is not enough “real” arousal.

    I’m explaining to you that your worldview is so partial as to be incorrect.

    The seduction and showing of male value continues even while on the bed.

    The very act of escalation is a show of value that arouses the woman.

    And no, it is ABSOLUTELY not more worthwhile to chuck out all the girls who give no resistance!

    I’ve moved many girls in on the first date, and some of them were initially resistant.

    Overcoming that resistance – the very fact of OVERCOMING it – creates sustainable physical attraction and genuine arousal.

  84. “What’s bothering you is the conflict between an organic genuine desire based on a woman’s arousal and having to negotiate for a mitigated desire based on her necessities. Is it better to be desired because she hot for you, or because she’s fearful of you?”

    No, you are not listening.

    That is what you are forced to think if you rigidly maintain your mental map. But your mental map is wrong.

    I am not correcting your worldview as an ego protection. That argument is like government official claiming that any anti-war sentiment is anti-patriot. I am correcting your view of what is beta behavior, and you come back with – “oh, you are only doing that because deep down you fear being known to be a beta”.

    No. Listen more carefully please. Your conception of what constitutes beta behavior is incorrect. You should correct it, in order to better be of use and value to all the men that you influence.

    Fearful?! Am I miscommunicating so poorly that that word is what comes to your mind? Fearful?!!!!

    Negotiated desire?!

    You just aren’t listening.

  85. “Women don’t get turned on by expensive sports cars, they get turned on by what they represent and the emotional association they get from the thrill of riding and being seen in one. Conspicuous consumption is a tingle inducement for most women.”

    My point is that wealth can be used in ways that create genuine hind-brain non-negatiated desire in women who are not in later stages of mating.

    My point is that the alpha-fucks/beta bucks dichotomy can be misused to give a false view of the value of money to men who want to arouse young women.

  86. Do you think your experiences with women in Southeast Asia have had an influence on your perspective of Game?

    Let’s be honest, the context you consider escalation and dominance has to be colored by the necessity of the women you bed.

    I’m not saying your wrong in your assessment, just that your particular conditions there may lead you to think they’re reflective of a larger picture.

  87. I could give example after example of how my escalation style, which includes pushing past boundaries, in alternation with backing off and letting the woman come to me, has led to forming extremely strong desire and bonding.

    I have given the examples. Here and on my blog.

    At this time in my life I have 5 women in my life. One of them has been very close to me for over 7 years. On the first date she was screaming at the top of her lungs while I was pulling her pants off.

    There was nothing negotiated about her long term desire for me, and nothing fearful in her attitude towards me. She is deeply bonded to me, even to this day, and we don’t even fuck anymore.

    Another of the girls has been with me for over four years, and I basically had to rape her (with her consent) to take her virginity. We have extremely passionate sex, even to this day. Yesterday I fucked two of my girls, and on some days I can fuck three, if I choose.

    And a long distance fling was reticent on our second meeting, but due to my seduction style she again is very interested in me and now again texts me about meeting up, missing me, marriage, etc.

    I have personal data after data after data. But like I keep saying, you needn’t rely on my anecdotes. Thousands of romance novels agree. It is built into the female psyche to see the very act of sexual escalation itself, and not just all the calculations of value that lead up to the final yes, as a very important display of the mans genuine worth as a mate.

    Genuine, non-negotiated, sustained hind-brain desire can be invoked in women during the sexual escalation process.

Speak your mind

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s