Beta Tells

couple-talking-3

 

TRP poster, needathrowawayplease from the Red Pill subreddit has a timely question / observation:

Knowing your SO’s menstrual cycle can be extremely powerful. [Indeed]

During the fertile stage of her cycle, thousands of years of evolution mean her body is screaming at her to get knocked up by an alpha male. A simple test to determine is she sees you as her alpha fucks is to not initiate during the fertile period of her cycle and observe her behavior: does she come to you to get fucked? Does her body language or physical behavior change when she’s fertile. Maybe she touches you more often or more intimately or plays the role of the seductress: things like coming to bed wearing lingerie where she usually wouldn’t? Even if she’s relatively low-sex drive and doesn’t initiate, does she at least respond more passionately to your sexual advances or orgasm more easily or intensely when she’s fertile?

You obviously can’t draw conclusions from a single cycle but you should eventually see a pattern – and the more she values you sexually during her fertile period the better. If she isn’t doing anything differently or reacting to you differently when she’s fertile, something’s up.

This test can have false negatives but not false positives. There’s no false positive case where she suddenly starts riding you while you’re watching the Packers game but she doesn’t see you as her alpha. But it can have false negatives where she doesn’t initiate but still sees you as her alpha. If she isn’t initiating when she’s fertile (and you aren’t initiating in order to test her reaction), it could be due to stress, lack of time, being too used to you doing the initiation, etc. But at the very least she should be demonstrating increased passion and sexual ecstasy during her fertile period.

At a high-level:

The best case: She initiates during her fertile period if you don’t. She gets cravings for your D.

The OK case: She responds more passionately and orgasms more easily during her fertile period.

The uh-oh, something might be wrong case: No observable change during her fertile period.

The beta case: Dead bedroom, what the fuck are you even doing (sorry if you got married and you can’t get out).

Of course if she’s an extremely sexual being and all of the above describes your sex life 24/7, then none of this should even concern you.

Disclaimer: Once again, this test is a tool that works best for women with higher sex drives (who really wanna get fucked when they’re fertile). If your 37 year old wife of 15 years fucks you when you want and isn’t cheating, you’re fine. I don’t think test applies to all women (LOL, broke /trp/ rules oops) but it’s useful nonetheless.

Lets presume for a moment that neither a controlled experiment nor an uncontrolled, but documented, correlatively scientific, sociological field study has ever been performed to test the principle of feminine Hypergamy. For a moment, as a man, imagine yourself living in a period of time prior to any formalized school of psychology; pre-turn of the 20th century. There is no Pavlov, there is no Skinner, there is no Freud.

Using only personal observations, observations of learned behaviors related by your father and brothers, male friends and the intergender experiences of a very socially isolated (by today’s standards) group of  people who make up your peers, and a restrictively limited access to any classic philosophical literature beyond the Judeo-Christian Bible – what would you presume would be the nature inimical to women and the feminine?

Would your observations, intuition and the education proffered by your father, brothers and other influential male friends and relations lead to an insight to know what Hypergamy is, how it motivates women and how to control for, or capitalize on it?

Not only do I believe it would, but I would argue that, up until the sexual revolution and the past 60 or so years, men have had an innate and learned understanding of Hypergamy, how it functions, and how to control for it.

To be sure, it didn’t have the formal name of ‘Hypergamy’ – in fact that term was until recently, strictly defined and reserved for “women with the tendency to marry above their socioeconomic level” in polite, pop-psychology circles – but men knew Hypergamy before the manopshere (re)exposed its true definition.

Waging Hypergamy

Resistance to the uncomfortable truths innate to the female experience is to be expected from women – until the advent of Open Hypergamy, the Feminine Imperative needed the sisterhood to be united and its secrets jealously guarded to the point of cognitive dissonance.

My guess is that most of my female critics would still agree with the basic parameters of Hypergamy, but what I doubt they’re aware of is that in denying the inherent biological nature of female Hypergamy women must also reject the sociological, psychological and (observably) behavioral aspects of Hypergamy inherent (and largely subconscious) in women.

Commenter Mookie:

“As women approach the Epiphany Phase (later the Wall) and realize the decay of their SMV (in comparison to younger women), they become progressively more incentivized towards attraction to the qualities a man possesses that will best satisfy the long-term security of the Beta Bucks side of her Hypergamy demands.”

Did your woman say, “you’re (so much) different than the guys I used to date.” Or, “I finally got smart and found a good guy.” If so, this is clear evidence that you are her Beta Bucks guy. Maybe she used to date DJs, NFL players, drug dealers, whatever. If these guys are different types of guys than you, do NOT continue the relationship. She has no clue, but she is rationalizing her choice in her mind. You will pay a severe price later, as in cheating, nonstop bitchiness, or sudden divorce. Find a girl that always dated guys like you. She may have swooned for the lead guitarist, but if she didn’t devote her early 20s to chasing him, you’re okay.

Beta Tells

One of the more common questions I’m asked in consults is whether something a guy did was ‘Beta’ or not. Usually it was a situation wherein the guy was instinctually sensitive to his own behavior in context to his Frame and how the woman he was dealing with perceived him. In most cases a man knows when he’s slipped in his perception of dominance with a woman, they just look for a third party confirmation of it – which is then followed by more rationalizations for why his behavior shouldn’t be considered Beta because they believe women are equally rational, equally forgiving, agents as men (really he is) are.

From Gut Check:

Whenever you feel something isn’t quite right in your gut, what this is is your subconscious awareness alerting you to inconsistencies going on around you. We tend to ignore these signs in the thinking that our rational mind ‘knows better’ and things really aren’t what they seem. It’s not as bad as you’re imagining, and you can even feel shame or guilt with yourself for acknowledging that lack of trust. However, it’s just this internal rationalization that keeps us blind to the obvious that our subconscious is trying to warn us about. Humans are creatures of habit with an insatiable need to see familiarity in other people’s actions. So when that predictable behavior changes even marginally, our instinctual perceptions fire off all kinds of warnings. Some of which can actually effect us physically.

It’s at this point most guys make the mistake of acting on the “good communication solves everything” feminized meme and go the full disclosure truth route, which only really leads to more rationalizations and repression of what’s really going on. What they don’t realize is that the MEDIUM is the message; her behavior, her nuances, the incongruousness in her words and demeanor (and how your gut perceives them) is the real message. There is an irregularity in her behavior that your subconscious is alerting you to which your consciousness either cannot or will not recognize.

I began the Alpha Tells post with the intent of recognizing how a woman behaves when she’s in the presence of a Man she perceives to be Alpha. A lot of men get hung up on trying to ‘act’ Alpha; wanting to ape (and hopefully internalize) the behavioral tells a more confident Alpha displays.

Consequently there’s a lot of debate about how men posture and how they naturally display these Alpha cues, but I think the best gauge of what defines those cues is not in men’s displays, but women’s behaviors and attitudes that are prompted by a perception of Alpha-ness.

And just as women will respond viscerally to an Alpha perception, they will also manifest behaviors which indicate her subconscious knows she’s dealing with a Beta aligned male.

It’s easy to pick apart what a guy thinks are his own Alpha tells, but it’s far more uncomfortable to dissect women’s Beta tells when they’re in the presence of men they perceive to be Beta. Much of what I’ll outline that follows will be hard to read for many guys, and as always you’re free to disagree.

My purpose here isn’t to bash Betas, rather it’s to increase awareness of women’s behaviors toward them. As I’ve explained above, try to put these behaviors into a Hypergamous context and how they would be perceived by women who’ve evolved to have an instinctual sensitivity to these Beta behaviors, as well as expressions of Beta attitudes in your words and emotional emphasis.

I could very easily compile a list of behaviors that are simply the reverse of the Alpha Tells I noted in the previous post, but it’s much more important to address the root reasons for these Beta Tells:

  • Does she initiate sex or affection spontaneously?
  • Does she entertain a large pool of “male friend” orbiters with the expectation of you being ‘mature enough’ to accept it?
  • Does she keep a core peer group of ‘girlfriends’ she insists on prioritizing over being with you? Frequent GNOs?
  • Has she explained to you how she was so different  in college and how she’s glad those days are behind her now?
  • Is she experiencing her Epiphany Phase?
  • Does she cite “mismatched libidos” as a reason for her lack of sexual interest in you now that you’re married or living together (even after she’s had better sex with you or a former lover when single)?
  • Is she averse or repulsed by your ejaculate being on her skin, in her mouth or overly concerned with soiling a bed sheet?
  • Will she have sex with you anywhere besides the bed?
  • Do you perform oral on her to get her off more than you have intercourse?
  • Is she a wide-eyed lover or does she squint her eyes closed while having sex? Is sex a chore for her to perform?
  • If you’re married, did she assume your last name, or did she insist on a hyphenated surname for herself?
  • When you’re together does her regular, unpracticed body posture indicate an openness or are you always having to break into her intimate space?
  • Is she preoccupied with her side of the family or a certain pet in preference to being concerned with your well-being?
  • Is she consciously aware of being 1-2 points above your own relative SMV? Is she overt about it?
  • Does she presume authority in your relationship? Do you accede this authority as a matter of (equalist) belief?

There are many more tells of course, and I hope more will be presented in the commentary, but it’s important to understand that these behaviors and attitudes are manifestations of a woman who on some level of consciousness understands that she’s dealing with a Beta man.

I should also mention that, as with Stephen’s case in Moments of Clarity, there are particular phases of a woman’s life when she becomes more attuned to dealing with Beta men due to perceived necessities on her part. A clear understanding of how these phases predispose women to convince themselves to be more accepting of Beta behaviors and a Beta mindset is imperative to avoiding the common pitfalls men encounter with regard to issues of Frame in their relationships.

Beta men are all too eager to believe they’ve matured into being a self-defined Alpha when a semi-attractive 29 year old in the midst of her Epiphany Phase is giving him wide-eyed indicators of interest in him. Only after she’s consolidated on that long-term security does he realize the plans her sexual strategy had for him.

Predisposition for Mate Guarding

One of the best Beta tells is how defensive a guy gets about the subject of mate guarding.

An Alpha has little preoccupation with mate guarding because subconsciously he knows he has sexual options. That applies both within and without monogamy. I’m presenting this here because the majority of what motivates Beta tells (and really a Beta mindset) is rooted in how men deal with a scarcity mentality. Beta tells are almost always indicators that a man believes he needs to guard his paired woman and thus telegraphs a Beta status to that woman as well as other women in her peer clutch.

Mate guarding, and its intrinsic set of subconscious suspicions and behaviors, is an evolved adaptation of ensuring paternity for a Beta-provider. These men must rely upon exchanging resources and external benefits for women’s sexual fidelity. In essence, it’s an unspoken awareness that Beta men must negotiate for what they hope will be a woman’s genuine desire in exchange for his provisioning, parental investment support and emotional involvement.

Beta men are aware on on a limbic level that Hypergamy dictates an Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks trade-off in women’s sexual strategy – thus a subconscious ‘mate guarding’ mindset evolved from Beta men’s heightened awareness of women’s preference for Alpha Fucks particularly around the proliferative phase time of women’s ovulation.

Paradoxically, the best assurance you have of fidelity with a woman is simply not to allow yourself to become exclusively monogamous with a woman and rather, have her make the efforts to pair with you under her own auspices you being Alpha. Romance is not required from a lover a woman perceives as Alpha, only his sexual interest – this represents a confirmation of Hypergamous optimization for a woman. The fuck-buddy dynamic – all sexual interests with no reciprocal expectation of emotional investment  – is a strong Alpha tell for a man.

The best gauge for determining a woman’s perception of you as either an Alpha or Beta type is examining yourself and your feeling a ‘need’ to mate guard her, to appease her, or an impulse to correct yourself in order to align with her terms for intimacy. A scarcity mentality is the mental point of origin for a Beta mindset – and that internalized mental model will manifest itself in a predisposition for Beta behaviors.

There’s a common belief that even the most Alpha of men will at times slip into a Beta behaviorism. You can’t be ‘on’ your game all of the time, and while that’s true it doesn’t invalidate that women have a mental model of your overall, predominant condition being either Alpha or Beta. A predominantly Alpha frame and mindset (and yes, looks), plus an acknowledged (real or perceived) SMV primacy will cover a multitude of Beta sins, but the predominant Beta has the sisyphean task of convincing a woman he’s more Alpha than she pegs him for.

So to answer the man asking whether or not something he did was Beta, your answer really lies in your motivation for behaving ‘Beta’ as you did in comparison to how a woman perceives your predominant character.

 

280 comments

  1. I can’t see how being married is NOT Beta and Red Pill 99% of the time.
    She may stay because she can’t do better and sees her friends fail in the SMP but she still has the trigger to take away your life’s work.
    And that leaves him with that burdon of performance hanging over his head.
    Yep it’s just “how it is” and that is normality for most men.
    Sex always has had a price.

  2. I’ve read enough of the Red Pill subreddit to know the posters are fools. I no longer read it. This pseudo-Evo-Psych nonsense is a perfect example. Of adolescent “thinking,” that is.

  3. I would say don’t bother worrying whether or not you are alpha or beta. Simply keep several women in rotation, if she finds out and gets pissed then make up lame excuses. The women will rationalize it away and you keep doing what you are doing. Wake up, take a shower, eat take a shower,go to sleep take a shower…what? You’re simply a clean person lol always be late comming home, always be busy, never pay her any attention, reply to text 30 min to an hour later. There is no pattern to break. Let her live in YOUR world and maintain frame. Subconsciously she has to know that you have EXERCISABLE options on a whim…many more than she does. Betas can’t aford to send out such strong signals. every once in a while…when she is fertile even more so, tell her to shut the fuck up. It works like a charm and she will love you for it.

  4. Hey, Rollo, a quick question: do you see a clear difference between ‘mate-guarding’ and ‘assertive-ownership’ of woman? I do, and I’m guessing that you do as well, based upon your circumstantial criteria.

    For example, paranoia and anxiety indicate (beta) desperation, while boldly dragging a woman—especially a wife—home by her hair shows a total lack of fear and a presumed (alpha) authority over her.

    The reasons and attitude are everything.

    Mate-guarding sometimes gets a bad rap because it’s easily associated with scarcity-mentality. And desperation always smells bad to both men and women.

    Meanwhile, assured confidence will always get the benefit of the doubt.

  5. One thought that I keep coming back to….If a man who got little attention from girls in his early twenties (due to his beta-ness) but does now as a 30ish year old, why doesn’t he just look at this as finally his opportunity and simply date several late twenty year old women (Epiphany Phase) at once? He could pay lip service to any serious relationship desires she has while (finally?) getting some easy sex and variety. Just seems like a no brainer for a guy who is now getting more attention. He just has to play into the “yes, you’ve finally decided to be with a good guy, my dear” role, yet never commit.

    Perhaps sometime soon it will be common for a man in his 30’s to avoid anything serious with a girl who has reached her Epiphany Phase. Why settle when he’s reached his prime?

  6. Rollo,

    Tangential to what Alan K asked; Vox holds that, within the context of a long-term relationship, occasional strong doses of Alpha from an otherwise Beta man goes a very long way to maintaining relationship fidelity and continued interest from the woman. I believe Heartiste may have also had something to say along thosr lines as well.

    Has that been your experience generally speaking?

  7. My Dad (WW2 vet) was always pointing out the women with Ds and up who passed by him and Mom. “Did you see her?” Or he would tell her of the women making passes at him. It wasn’t until I was 40 that I figured it out. And it wasn’t until I stated reading around in the last few years that I got a deep understanding.

    And the value of all that? It kept my Mom bonded. She would always act embarrassed but I think she liked it. Looking at other women showed her she had value – “he comes to me”. And hearing of other women showed he had value – “other women want him too”

    And he was doing all this naturally from the time I could remember ( 1950 at age 5 or so ) .

    But he was definitely an alpha. Many women before Mom. None after.

  8. “Can those behaviors the eradicated?”

    Yes. But you have to retrain her. And that requires that she WANTS to be bonded to you. Then just show her how your interest in other women and their interest in you help keep her bonded.

    And teach her that being and staying bonded is an unnatural state for a woman.

    All very difficult. Very much worth the effort if you want to maintain a LTR.

  9. >> Does she entertain a large pool of “male friend” orbiters with the expectation of you being ‘mature enough’ to accept it?

    This is not (necessarily) a beta tell. My current girl is an 8 and has a ton of orbiters, and always has. One guy likes to get her a box of chocolates whenever he travels. We eat them after sex. I’ve been awestruck by the heartless things I’ve seen women do to betas without any hesitation.

    I allow her legion of ‘guy friends’ without a word of protest, for one reason: I’m getting all the sex I want so I’ve already won. Extracting gifts and validation from others while wishfully waiting for me to propose marriage somewhere down the road is her way of winning. It’s a mutually beneficial arrangement. (Don’t worry, there’s no proposal at the end of this road I assure you.)

    I’d be insane to try to stop any girl I’m sleeping with from running her racket. There is literally nothing for me to gain by interfering. Orbiters are just part of the deal with higher SMV girls. They’re not necessarily a beta tell in the least.

    Besides, her betas – unbeknownst to them – have zero chance of ending up in bed with her. She and I both know sleeping with one of her orbiters would be a significant net loss for her because I can and would get another girl, quickly. This would end her chance at the marriage proposal she is
    hoping for. She’s not doing that, especially not with an orbiter.

    Men — nothing will make you less beta than sleeping with and observing girls who have a lot of orbiters. These women privately consider their beta friends to be weak, afraid, and ultimately sexually repulsive. (Such nice guys though.)

  10. The more I read these lists the more disturbed I get.. because according to this list I must be an alpha. And on paper I guess I am. An N count of well over 50 women, and as I read this list I find that women have always behaved this way with me… but….. and here is the part that disturbs me..
    I always screwed it up.
    I read these lists and descriptions and realize that women see me as alpha, and I, conditioned as I am, always ruin it by becoming beta as soon as I start to like a woman. Sometimes it happens early, sometimes later in the game.. but I look back on my relationships/fwbs and realize that it was me who eventually beta-ized myself. Alway to her disappointment.
    Its crazy.
    And I’m realizing that I did/do it because I keep telling myself that if I don’t act in a beta fashion then I won’t have anything else to offer, and she’ll leave or lose interest.
    I’ve really, truly internalized this idea that a man has to earn a woman, that she really wants a good guy, equity… and now, even after being RP for a bit, I slip.. I don;t initiate sometimes when it feels like I should, etc.
    And as I write this I can finally identify the underlying emotion that does it to me…
    Guilt.
    I feel guilty for wanting to jus bang her, I feel guilty about being selfish enough to lead, I feel guilty about causing her turmoil or drama or pain..
    Guilt.

    I don’t know what going on, but lately Rollo your posts are all hitting home with me. I don’t know if its a case of being ready to see, or just that you’ve honed your message to a point of absolute clarity.. whatever it is. Keep it coming and thank you!

  11. “Does she initiate sex or affection spontaneously?”

    I don’t see this as a beta tell. If she wants to have sex with you, aren’t you exhibiting alpha?

  12. This all makes sense.

    But. What if you want to go to dinner with a fuck buddy, and you enjoy her company, so you take her out. Which, can be framed as pedestalizing b/c your spending money/resources on her, but it’s because you like hanging out with her…..

    I take it this will cause her to steer away from you? And move away from being a fuck buddy?

    That’s so fucked up to think about…like if you want to do something nice for your girl you shouldn’t? B/c her perception of you will subconsciously change?
    Idk man. Males have higher motives to fuck random hot pussy than an ovulating girl has to fuck alphas I’m guessing….

    I just don’t think it’s as extreme as some people say…but most of this is definitely correct ha

  13. Also,

    I think that it’s impirtant to realize that the sexual market is…..a market. It’s a market. Say it again. It’s a market.

    What the manosphere (especially Rollo and ch) do is they tell you what are smart investments in this market and what potential investments will fuckin burn you. (I.e. All of these covert ways to identify unhealthy female/male relationship dynamics).

    Also, I think that the more you learn about the market or realize how to play in this market….then the better time you will have with girls and the better chance you have for one to keep chasing.

    But, you have to understand how to invest, b/c resources and most importantly emotions are things you do invest in relationships and they are valuable–as in both can fuck you up life-wise.

    So treat the sexual market place as something that it is. A market. That’s the heart of red pill. And when you understand that, you will stop getting burned by girls or confused by girls and you will stop losing so much on your investments and instead make better ones with more benefits

  14. I believe a man’s instinctive predisposition towards Alpha or Beta is already set at conception. The majority of men (betas) can only arm themselves with knowledge, avoid mistakes, and if he’s really looking for that primal alpha love women can give, aim for a chick of lower market value (in relation to his).

    This especially rings true with the young crowd. I’ve never came across a relationship where a guy was 2 points lower than the girl and it lasting more than 3 months. Either the girl cheats or it wanes off (mainly by her own indifference towards the guy). Mind you, I’m basing all of this on the couple’s looks. Because when you’re young, what else do you have? I mean, chicks don’t sexually respond to beta bucks in college lol.

    But on topic, I don’t know much about beta tells aside from the obvious “sucking up” body language that beta men exude, but an area where beta tells and alpha tells coincide is in the sexual. Always base your tells off her sexual desire because that is something that she cannot hide effectively. A girl can hug you, kiss you, take pictures with you (i.e. all that relationship bs girls pull) but if she isn’t giving you hot unrestrained sex in the bedroom, then you’re not alpha to her, period.

    I’ve had girls with low notch counts as well as sluts and you’ll be surprised just how similar they are in bed with the “right” guy. It’s a myth to think just because she’s a “good girl” she won’t turn feral in the heat of the moment. Chances are, it’s the guy and not the girl who doesn’t incite that feral desire.

    I’ve made girls do things they’ve never done before with their boyfriends. All types of sexual acts and one even said, “I’ll never do this with _____, he wouldn’t appreciate it.”

    I laughed at that line because it shows just how well girls can rationalize their behaviors away by putting men at fault or better yet said, beta men at fault.

  15. Rokalow:

    “Besides, her betas – unbeknownst to them – have zero chance of ending up in bed with her. She and I both know sleeping with one of her orbiters would be a significant net loss for her because I can and would get another girl, quickly. This would end her chance at the marriage proposal she is
    hoping for. She’s not doing that, especially not with an orbiter.”

    How do you know they have “zero chance”? hmm? Because she tells you that?

    You’re thinking she’s a rational long term thinker about the net loss thing too. And women live in the moment.

    Having dated women with lots of orbiters, I’ve noticed one thing. They will betray you eventually and you’re fooling yourself if you think she hasn’t already.

    Women cheat, and they’ll tell you “him? Eww he wants to sleep with me, but I’d never.” And they will.

    Do you ever see these orbiters? One of the best ways to see if a guy is sleeping with a woman is to watch them interact with each other in front of you, especially if they’re trying to keep it on the down low. If you haven’t met these guys, she’s probably sleeping around more than you realize

  16. @M Simon

    Thanks for responding.

    I think I get what you’re saying. Show and display your higher value, through pre-selection and things of that nature, and she will bond to you.

    “And teach her that being and staying bonded is an unnatural state for a woman.” I’m not sure I understand that quote though.

    How is staying bonded an unnatural state for a woman? Isn’t it the most natural thing for a woman to bond to a man?

    I’m a little confused.

  17. Tinder Master:

    “I’ve made girls do things they’ve never done before with their boyfriends. All types of sexual acts and one even said, “I’ll never do this with _____, he wouldn’t appreciate it.” ”

    “I’ve never done that before” has got to be one of the biggest lies a woman tells a man.

    Makes you feel special, doesn’t it, which is the whole idea.

  18. Ras al Ghul – “Makes you feel special, doesn’t it, which is the whole idea.”

    Actually it makes feel like a chump that she thinks/feels/whatever that I’d be dumb enough to fall for that shit. It’s an indictment of my intelligence, and my dignity. It’s a real mood killer, and a motivation killer.

  19. I also think that something is seriously seriously seriously wrong with American culture. The fact that the manosphere is blowing up at the fast rate that it is tells you that something is wrong with the sexual market.

    Tons of guys shouldn’t be as confused and as analytical in the manosphere as they are and increasingly so. It’s actually scary to see and hear and read about so much confusion and analysis.
    Yes it’s healthy to understand the sexual market, but something is wrong when we start seeing the manosphere blowing up like it is. Just saying

  20. @ Ra al Ghul and Badpainter:

    While I get what you guys are saying, that’s not exactly what I’m getting at. It’s the fact that she’s reserving her genuine desire for a different man that’s the “tell”. I mean, sure, chicks could be lying, but when you’ve done everything imaginable with most and hear about how other men are not able to get a simple blowjob from their partners, then that really puts things into perspective.

  21. do you see a clear difference between ‘mate-guarding’ and ‘assertive-ownership’ of woman?

    Mate guarding = Fear of losing her due to scarcity mentality
    Assertive ownership = Marking territory, but also completely willing to kick her to the curb (NEXT!) because you know you can find (or already have) others just as good or better

    If you are not honestly making the above distinction, then you are trying to euphemize ‘mate-guarding’ as ‘assertive-ownership’.

  22. “Do you ever see these orbiters?..If you haven’t met these guys, she’s probably sleeping around more than you realize”

    This is true. When a girl is really feeling you (and only you) she’ll cut off a huge bulk of her orbiters or completely ignore them (at least while you two are fucking). If she’s still entertaining them after you’ve been fucking her for quite some time, then you’re just not “all that” to her and she’s definitely looking to upgrade. Basically, it’s hypergamy at work. Also, some orbiters aren’t complete betas as the puasphere makes them out to be. Some guys just like keeping in contact to ping bitches because some know (by past experience) that if the opportunity is right, she will succumb eventually.

    This “market” as you guys call it, has become a “free-for-all”.

  23. It can be a battle at times to fight the tendency to slide into beta behaviour once a level of comfort and intimancy has been reached with a woman.
    I am aware of this and yet will still falter.

    I believe that this in part stems from my main role models; my parents and the dynamics of the relationship between them, me and my siblings.

    My father was and is a Beta.
    A good, hard working man but still a beta.
    In addition to this, he is the youngest of six siblings.
    So after putting his behaviour under some Red Pill analysis, he often still acts like a big kid.
    It’s fun when you’re a kid with such a dad but works against you from your teenage years onwards.
    My mother, overly protective and controlling.

    More needs to be written about how our upbringing and family relationships affect us.

  24. Tinder Master,

    I take you at face value and understand what your saying. My comment is only my own response to such lies. I know that I am the beta, and that the lies are just a shameless ploy at getting something out of me in exchange for nothing. At which point I walk because my time is being wasted and my patience is being abused.

    Rollo’s point about gut instinct applies here. If I get the feeling something is off, if there’s too much anxiety, if I worry at all about “how I am doing” in the evaluative sense I walk. I know that I’ve already failed, and that there is no point trying to correct for mistakes. In those cases I have too find a new opportunity to make all new mistakes. Which is the value of Rollo and the ‘sphere: I now know what I was doing wrong and why it was wrong. Frustratingly I was getting everything about half right before.

  25. Is she averse or repulsed by your ejaculate being on her skin, in her mouth or overly concerned with soiling a bed sheet?
    (Time…)

  26. You can’t count too much on anything women say or do
    “I’d never do this with… ” is BS, every guy gets that line
    “I’d never sleep with……” is BS, she would
    She is having wild sex with you? so what. Women are good at this, many times she’ll bang you senseless and leave you nonetheless.. the affair gets her hot and bothered, and the thought of cuckolding two men hotter still…
    She is all lovey dovey with you and treating you like a king? means nothing, just ask any guy who has been whiplashed by a wife filing for divorce.. never showed a sign and if anything was more affectionate while planning her branch swing..
    I’ve seen it all…

  27. “There’s a common belief that even the most Alpha of men will at times slip into a Beta behaviorism. You can’t be ‘on’ your game all of the time, and while that’s true it doesn’t invalidate that women have a mental model of your overall, predominant condition being either Alpha or Beta.” [From the end of Rollo’s article]
    .

    Men can create problems for themselves by not mentally separating important elements of “frame and mindset” (for long-term relationships), so that dependencies and magnitudes can be seen clearly, instead of allowing them to exist as something vague (and confusing), in their minds.

    Being “on your game” can also involve creating a “structure”, from these elements, that exists almost independently of inevitable behavioral variations, and thus becomes a significant part of your woman’s “mental model of your overall, predominant condition”.

    The following four elements frequently determine the difference between success and failure:
    .

    [1] You are in change.

    If this is not set at 100%, then you can have problems, because this is a fundamental aspect of complementarity between the sexes, where strengths compensate for weaknesses, and capacities are matched to needs, in both directions.

    Trying to establish this basis, after the fact, is often difficult, and can be impossible if anything makes it significantly less than believable (for example, if your strength of will has wavered too often or too much).

    This is why establishing this basis should be (and is relatively easy as) the very first step in any type of long-term relationship: simply tell her how things are going to be, and then wait for her to submit or leave.

    This sets the turning point, as well as establishing the precedent that allows this dynamic to develop and strengthen as you remain calm and even gentle, but always firm and resolute.

    (Notice that this in no way suggests that you shouldn’t value her preferences, or carefully consider her ideas and the information on which they are based.)

    If she disagrees through an emotional production worthy of Broadway, then she also does not disagree enough to leave.

    This would be good time to practice being absolutely certain, within yourself, that you will not give in, which is essential in not lowering yourself to her level during future disagreements.

    A woman is just the most responsible teenager in the house [no-maam.blogspot[]ca/2012/06/woman-most-responsible-teenager-in[]html], and you should never act like weak parents do toward their children.

    The parents who get into screaming debates with their children are not leaders, and their wrong response is also way out of proportion *, because they are actually afraid that they may “have to” give in (surrender) to their children.
    .

    [2] She is not allowed to do anything that is bad for her.

    This should also be set at 100%, especially since it is “neutral” or “balanced” (the man exercises his power by increasing his woman’s well-being).

    Restrictions for this purpose have to be objective and based in fact, and she must be allowed to challenge them on that basis, respectfully. Notice that a factual objection is never disrespectful, in and of itself.

    Being a leader does not mean that you will always be right, especially initially (at the beginning of any process). But it does mean that you must never be a self-important fool who thinks that he is omniscient, or a coward who fears being exposed if he doesn’t claim (and pretend) to always know everything.

    Leadership and rational decision-making can be collocated, from the beginning, with full knowledge and correct information, but this is not necessary, and they are not the same things.
    .

    [3] She is required to do and be what you like, and what you think is necessary, as long as these states and activities are not bad for her (see [2], above).

    This one becomes much easier to set higher rather than lower, especially for “nice guys”, once they learn that not only is this not a negative in a relationship, but that it is also a positive experience for women, and something that they expect from (and that identifies) men who are worthy of them.

    (And this one also directly limits the next one.)
    .

    [4] How “nice” (which means different things to different people) you are allowed to be (can get away with being) toward your woman.

    This one befuddles and tortures Betas everywhere, because it depends on the presence of the previous three elements, and must be set to less than the third one.

    But when these ideas occur to Betas, they are often actively and immediately rejected (because of the synergy between the nature of Betas and the societal conditioning to which they have been subjected).

    If [1], [2], and [3] are at (or very close to) 100%, then [4] can also be set quite high, with low risk of detrimental effects on the relationship.
    .

    Notice that this was a philosophical discussion about concepts that would not always be practical everywhere or for everyone, and that these concepts do not presuppose or require monogamy.

    Furthermore, in order to be successful, in this way, you must be real, above all else.

    Whether you are a Natural, or someone who first learned, and then thought and internalized, and thus recreated himself, does not matter. What does matter is that you are solid and certain, now, within yourself (as you verify the truth about yourself).

    However, if you are still, in any way, like the woman who sobs and then peeks through her fingers to gauge the effect and modify her manipulation, then you have lost before you even start.

    And because women have a need to submit to men who are above them, you could well be inciting a woman to use every means at her disposal to get even with you for scorning her, by being an unworthy fraud.
    .

    Even though my first three elements are all set to 100%, I was still somewhat concerned about how high the fourth seemed to be, especially since I really enjoy having Redhead around.

    But, as it turned out, this instead had the effect of further reassuring her, to the point that one day she did her “walking her fingers up my chest”, while saying: “I have been thinking, and it would be good for me to have to …, and to not be allowed to …”, a declaration that would not have been possible if she had not been certain that it would be received as reasonable ** and hot, or if any doubts had been present about my capabilities or consistency, or her future well-being.
    .

    * One of my closest friends has a large family, and the best children that I have ever seen. I once went to air races with them, where one of his young daughters decided that she just had to eat colorful processed crap, instead of healthful food from vendors who had been specifically invited.

    My friend took us to the furthest table, where other people wouldn’t be disturbed, and then remained very relaxed, as he ate and kept an eye on her to ensure that nothing bad happened.

    His wife kept getting more and more fidgety, until she was almost dancing in her chair, as the tantrum and monologues kept going on and on (that kid had a lot of stamina), but she took her cue from her husband and said nothing.

    Eventually, the girl wore herself out, and then she and her father closed it all with the following conversation: “are you done?”, “yes”; “are you tired?”, “yes”; “are you hungry?”, “yes”; “do you want to take this food with you when we go to watch the planes?”, “okay”.

    Neither she nor her siblings, who had been observing, bothered with anything like that again, and while guidance through a simple display of will may not be sufficient in every case, it should be a first option.
    .

    ** When a woman is opening her uncertainty to you and making herself vulnerable in a very significant way, never act juvenile, or belittle or embarrass (or neg!) her, even if what she is proposing will have to be changed into something else entirely, unless you want to shut down that level of intimacy immediately, and possibly permanently.

  28. These women privately consider their beta friends to be weak, afraid

    The first mate and I were discussing the betas she knew and why she found them unattractive. And a statement something like that is exactly what came up. “I couldn’t trust them to protect me when I was in danger. They couldn’t make a decision and certainly not a good one.” Was approximately what she said.

  29. dcllcd
    November 12th, 2014 at 12:53 am

    How is staying bonded an unnatural state for a woman? Isn’t it the most natural thing for a woman to bond to a man?

    Hypergamy works against long term bonding. So maybe I should have said “long term bonding is unnatural.”

    I’ve gotten her to acknowledge her nature. I have trained her to say “I like watching you with other women. It makes me hot for you.” And every time she says it she gets a tingle. We both feel it. Delicious.

  30. I might add that I do give some comfort in return. “When you are hot for me it makes me hot for you.”

    Women intrinsically are OK with not being the only. (After all they “get” alphas) What they want to think is that they are at the top of the list. Feed that.

    And of course with other women on the list they work hard to stay at the top. Competition improves her.

  31. “The best gauge for determining a woman’s perception of you as either an Alpha or Beta type is examining yourself and your feeling a ‘need’ to mate guard her, to appease her, or an impulse to correct yourself in order to align with her terms for intimacy”

    Maybe I am oversimplifying, but I think that “mate guarding”, “appease the other” and the “impulse to correct yourself in order to align with the other” are almost always present in every relationship, in a side or in the other of the relationship. This is the Beta side. If (in an heterosexual relation) the beta side is the side of the woman then it’s all good, she is jealous, she is appeasing you and you are the rock of the relation.
    If this side is that of the male… you are in trouble.
    This is the root of many of the suggestions made in the manosphere websites. For example “make her jealous” is an efficient technique to move the weight of the “mate guarding” from your side to hers. If you do this, you are trying to get control over the relation (Cardinal Rule of Relationships).

  32. Great post, Rollo. I especially agree with “mate guarding” as the prime beta tell.

    One point I’m less clear about is “these behaviors and attitudes are manifestations of a woman who on some level of consciousness understands that she’s dealing with a Beta man.” I’m always amazed that womne (AWALT) keep saying things like “He provides for me, so providing is alpha. He opens doors for me, so opening doors is alpha. He brings me flowers, so bringing flowers is alpha.” Women evidently believe that whatever they *like* about a man is necesarily alpha.

    Softek on the previous post made an excellent comment: “FI conditioned me to believe being beta was in my best interest. It’s in women’s best interest and women’s best interest alone.” This is the great test for discriminating alpha and beta: if she behaves in his interest, or he behaves in her interest.

  33. @StronggiveC, re: “For example “make her jealous” is an efficient technique to move the weight of the “mate guarding” from your side to hers. If you do this, you are trying to get control over the relation (Cardinal Rule of Relationships).”

    Great suggestion.

  34. The fuck-buddy dynamic – all sexual interests with no reciprocal expectation of emotional investment  – is a strong Alpha tell for a man.

    This is the only way of dealing with women at this point. All men should adopt this mindset. Romance is dead and was probably just a fantasy in men’s minds to begin with. Betas especially need to view women in this way to keep their romantic fantasies in check. As men our sexual needs must come first or you should walk from the relationship. Women will not be willing to tolerate this from men who they perceive as beta so walking away will be required often. That is good because women are looking for validation of their SMV most of the time from their orbiters and not looking for a real relationship with them anyway.

    I like the idea of examining one’s own feelings about a woman in determining the level of hope or interest you have and making the decision to walk or become indifferent based on that, how strong the mate guarding instinct is a clear indicator to determine if your interest in her is too strong. Do you get jealous when she is having a friendly conversation with another man that you perceive as more alpha then you? Time to reevaluate how you relate to her and the effort you put in to make something happen. Viewing women just as fuck buddies is the best way to go.

  35. Beta tell: this ->

    http://www.doctornerdlove.com/2014/09/the-red-pill/

    Where we are expected not to be “male”, but be hetero cis-gendered males. Otherwise nobody knows what we are talking about.

    This article asserts – without evidence – that red pill adherents hate women, treat women like shit, focus on manipulation and coercion, believe women are devoid of reason and logic, are emotionally abusive, lack internal consistency, use techniques of recruitment used by hate groups for centuries, and offer an enemy (a target) for revenge. Red pillers are not particularly focused on issues like the rape crisis in the military, the demonization of African-American men, the demasculinization of Indian and Southeast Asian men. Red pillers laugh over date rate accusations, advocate domestic violence as a relationship maintenance technique, and that it’s OK to smack around women.

    Holy Cow! This isn’t Rational Male. No way, no how. But with misdirection like the link above competing for the mind of the uninitiated and impatient, there is no chance in today’s FI poisoned world of the Rational Male (R) getting a meta foothold. The crab barrel at work in spades.

  36. First: I didn’t know what HUS was until a couple days ago. Kept seeing that around here. Been on this blog for quite a while now but never saw HUS until now…and god damn is that an education. What a mindfuck. If I didn’t have RM to refer to I would be out in the weeds believing all the BS they’re shoveling out over there. The degree of doublespeak and covert manipulation/subliminal messaging/behind the scenes lying and hypocrisy is just unbelievable.

    If I hadn’t found RM first I’d be lost. A guy the other day told me he thought feminism was stupid but he thought Susan Walsh was very good. That’s when I did a search and found HUS and that was a big “holy shit” moment for me. Just put the nail in the beta coffin already. Jesus.

    @ Hobbes

    “Guilt.
    I feel guilty for wanting to jus bang her, I feel guilty about being selfish enough to lead, I feel guilty about causing her turmoil or drama or pain..
    Guilt.”

    Same. There’s a girl I’ve been in an “LDR” with for 5 years. It was 4 years ago the last time I actually was physically with her. Anyway, she wants to have kids with me, wants me to marry her, I’ve refused to tell her I love her (because I don’t, not in the way she’s thinking or would take it if I said I loved her) while still saying I value the time we’ve spent together and the connection we have (which I do, and the time we’ve spent together and the connection we have has ALWAYS been on MY TERMS and MY TERMS ALONE…coincidence? I think not).

    She is extremely upset that I don’t want to be in a relationship with her, or ANY girl, and that especially after being sexually deprived my whole life, all I want to do now is get laid and work on getting my life together.

    I’ll call her up for phone sex once in a while or ‘sext’ her…it’s embarrassing to say that but it’s been my only option for the past 5 years, and I capitalized on it. No comparison to actual physical contact but better than absolutely nothing.

    I know phone sex/sexting is not the same as actually physically being together. Although I have been with her physically so I have some reference with that. Anyway it was always about me and what I wanted. She would always want me to tell her what I wanted and what I wanted her to do and stuff like that, and the more I caught onto that and capitalized on it the more enthusiastic she got.

    The funny thing is I really enjoyed the time we spent together when she was here. But I don’t want to be in a relationship with her. I don’t want to be in a relationship with any girl. I’ve told her that time and time again.

    What I really want is to enjoy having no-strings-attached sex with a lot of girls without committing to any of them. And I feel guilty about that, so I avoid doing it.

    I feel guilty keeping up this “LDR” with this girl who lives so far away, who’s desperate to start a family with me. She’s said so many times she feels like I’m just leading her on or have her on the “back burner” – an option until something better comes along.

    I told her she was basically right. She is an option. And then I said I’m just an option to her, and that’s how this stuff works, and it’s nothing personal.

    She got pissed off about that and didn’t try to contact me for a few days but in a couple weeks it was back to normal.

    The real headfuck for me is thinking that the only reason she’s been so into me for so long is because I’ve been alpha with her, more so than any other girl I’ve known in my life.

    To think that what I feel guilty about is actually what is PERPETUATING this girl’s sexual interest in me, and desire to be in a relationship with me….

    THAT is a headfuck. I feel so guilty for pursuing my own interests and only maintaining contact with her on MY TERMS and MY TERMS ALONE…it might be some kind of pseudo-‘LDR’, but I don’t pander to her, I don’t make any attempt to contact her unless I feel like it, and it’s usually for phone sex, or to get her emotional support, which she always gives to me freely even if I’m complaining about something like a child. She has never disrespected me a single time and I think it’s because right from the start I must’ve made it clear, subconsciously, that I wasn’t going to put up with that.

    This is the biggest hurdle for me right now. To move on from this ‘LDR’ by pursuing other girls…while still keeping the ‘LDR’ girl in my life. Because right now she’s only in my life on my terms. I’ve already made it clear that I’m not going to commit to a relationship with her, but I still want her in my life. She isn’t happy about that but apparently not unhappy enough to break contact with me.

    And it’s always been that way. It is purely beneficial to me because she gives me everything I want that she’s capable of offering from such a distance, including gifts she’s sent me in the mail.

    I have never sent her ANYTHING over the course of our relationship, never a letter, never a gift. Nothing. She has sent me a lot of gifts and cards over the years despite me ONLY relating to her and talking to her on my terms and more or less being completely selfish.

    Meanwhile I’m trying to get with girls I have ONE-itis for and failing miserably. I was acting around those girls like this LDR girl has been acting around me.

    It’s been a tremendous lesson for me. I still feel guilty about it but I’m working on letting that go —

    — for the sole reason that this is really *WHAT SHE WANTS.* THAT is the hardest part to get.

    To think that women actually like being led, that they LIKE selfish, self-respecting guys, that they like guys that aren’t afraid of conflict, aren’t afraid of stating exactly what they want and being unwilling to compromise about it. I have told her that her weight turns me off and is probably the main reason I don’t want to commit to anything with her, but I didn’t want her out of my life, and I didn’t want to commit to anyone — even a girl I’d really be super attracted to, I don’t want a relationship, I just want the sex.

    And that’s the god’s honest truth. And even after telling her that dozens of times she hasn’t left, even though she doesn’t like hearing it.

    I’m having a hard time accepting this. It’s so hard to believe that women will tolerate what they’ll tolerate, and not only that, but it’s what they’re BIOLOGICALLY ATTRACTED TO.

    Why have girls I’ve offered my love and commitment to shut me down? Wouldn’t even give me the time of day? Never had a chance of seeing one inch of them naked? And yet a girl that I explicitly denied committing to and have told that I wanted to keep her in my life while pursuing sex with other girls….wants to be with me more than any other girl I’ve known in my life that I ‘chased’ by pandering to?

    It’s a major lesson, that’s for sure.

    The guilt is a huge topic. But again..to think that what I feel guilty about doing is actually what’s PERPETUATING her desire for me, and allowing it to be so strong in the first place…

    …that’s an eye opener. A big one.

  37. @manosphere lurker

    read the comments, immediate boilerplate default response to footage is to blame the man’s performance and shame him for not providing enough support. pfffffffftttttttttt. Damned of you do and damned if you dont……..

  38. ” . . . Red pillers are not particularly focused on issues like the rape crisis in the military . . .”

    This is an issue that concerns me quite a bit. Women in the military are raping men at an alarming rate, and if caught, it is the men who are prosecuted and have their carreers destroyed.

  39. My answers to Rollo’s initial list. I am the consummate beta, and my wife is 64 btw.

    •Does she initiate sex or affection spontaneously?
    No, never. But I know she counts her IOIs as her initiating, whereas I would count an IOI as merely signalling openness to me initiating.

    •Does she entertain a large pool of “male friend” orbiters with the expectation of you being ‘mature enough’ to accept it?
    No, she is basically scared of men, especially if I’m not around.

    •Does she keep a core peer group of ‘girlfriends’ she insists on prioritizing over being with you? Frequent GNOs?
    Yes, counting her sisters, and fakebook friends.

    •Has she explained to you how she was so different in college and how she’s glad those days are behind her now?
    No. Her N was 1 from a very short marriage when she was 25.

    •Is she experiencing her Epiphany Phase?
    No, and I don’t think she’s ever quite had the Epiphany. I think she’s mentally stuck at age 27 orthereabouts. (I’m one to talk; I’mstill stuck at 15.)

    •Does she cite “mismatched libidos” as a reason for her lack of sexual interest in you now that you’re married or living together (even after she’s had better sex with you or a former lover when single)?
    Yes, she thinks it’s natural that her libido is lower, even though she repeatedly claims ignorance of exactly how much lower. In other words, she doesn’t take my libido seriously enough.

    •Is she averse or repulsed by your ejaculate being on her skin, in her mouth or overly concerned with soiling a bed sheet?
    No, which is odd. She hates the feeling of lube, including her own au naturel productions, but not what I produce.

    •Will she have sex with you anywhere besides the bed?
    Nope, never. She like making out and foreplay in other locations, couch, car, etc., but just the bed for realz.

    •Do you perform oral on her to get her off more than you have intercourse?
    No, foreplay only. She is extremely difficult to get off orally,moreso than me for example. Manual afterplay, aftplay, fiveplay, etc. is what does the trick usually.

    •Is she a wide-eyed lover or does she squint her eyes closed while having sex? Is sex a chore for her to perform?
    Sex is a chore for ME; I’m the performer, she’s the performee. She closes her eyes mostly if something is in her face, such as my face.

    •If you’re married, did she assume your last name, or did she insist on a hyphenated surname for herself?
    She took my name.

    •When you’re together does her regular, unpracticed body posture indicate an openness or are you always having to break into her intimate space?
    I always have to break in. I think this anecdote fits here: our first date started with her bolting her door and telling me to go away because she changed her mind. About a half hour later we were eating and chatting nicely.

    •Is she preoccupied with her side of the family or a certain pet in preference to being concerned with your well-being?
    Yes, all of the above. She views my well-being as not her problem.

    •Is she consciously aware of being 1-2 points above your own relative SMV? Is she overt about it?
    Yes. All the time.

    •Does she presume authority in your relationship? Do you accede this authority as a matter of (equalist) belief?
    She presumes that I’ll appease her. It’s not because of equalism, it’s because what has become habitual is treating her like a handicapped child.

  40. never go down on her. eating pussy is chick work

    jf12 if a woman perceives a man to be alpha enough she will view the majority of his actions as alpha if its a neutral topic and….. women lie t themselves so she might very well be trying to con herself into thinking the guy is alpha so she can bitch/ brag to her “friends”

    “This article asserts – without evidence – that red pill adherents hate women, treat women like shit, focus on manipulation and coercion, believe women are devoid of reason and logic, are emotionally abusive, lack internal consistency, use techniques of recruitment used by hate groups for centuries, and offer an enemy (a target) for revenge”…… sounds like an accurate description of women to me

  41. Pero says “that leaves him with that burdon of performance”

    Repeating: if she usually performs for him, then he’s alpha. If instead he usually has to perform for her and she doesn’t perform, then he’s beta.

  42. Another beta tell:

    Her emotional state governs his emotional state and the overall tenor and course of the relationship.

    He is consistently attempting to discern her emotional state.

    When she is in a “bad” emotional state, he consistently attempts to corral and redirect her into a “good” emotional state.

  43. @ eon

    “Whether you are a Natural, or someone who first learned, and then thought and internalized, and thus recreated himself, does not matter. What does matter is that you are solid and certain, now, within yourself (as you verify the truth about yourself).

    However, if you are still, in any way, like the woman who sobs and then peeks through her fingers to gauge the effect and modify her manipulation, then you have lost before you even start.”

    excellent

  44. @thedeti re: “He is consistently attempting to discern her emotional state.”

    It’s usually not hard to tell. hee hee. Actually I don’t recall ever saying to any woman “What are you feeling?” It’s often not clear “why are you feeling” etc, but the emotional state itself is usually crystal clear.

    re: “Her emotional state governs”

    Yes. “When momma’s unhappy …”

  45. A man in traditional marriage, following the script that tells him act beta in every hit song he’s heard for most of his life, the same script in every ___________ (you name the source) he’s expfor most of his life… That’s learning from Rollo Tomassi and a few others should matter right now.

  46. @bbb, if you look at the demographic info for sites like this, Mark Manson, Evan Katz, MMSL, HUS, Mating Grounds, or any Blue Pill apologists’ blog, their readership skews overwhelmingly to the female side.

    If you look at my demo, my male to female readership is almost balanced (just slightly skews male) and I have very few comments and receive no email contact regarding how offensive my content is to women’s sensibilities.

    The Rational Male is known to be the open and unmoderated comment forum of the manosphere. None of these blogs can claim that. Naysayers are always welcome to post their disagreements here, but challenges to ego-investments are always uncomfortable.

    And not for nothing, but as far as the military goes, I’ll always be far more concerned with the well-being of the thousands of men returning home from deployment who put a gun to their heads or find some slower form of suicide than I ever will be about an over-reported “rape epidemic” from a feminine-primary media:

    https://therationalmale.com/2013/01/21/soldiers/

  47. In my previous comment, I wrote that trying to establish your being in charge as the basis of your relationship, after the fact, is often difficult, but I forgot to include a way in which this could be fixed.

    One way to change the basis of your relationship would be to start chipping away at your equalist (or worse) dynamic slowly and calmly, but always firmly and resolutely, one small piece at a time.

    This will have to be implicit, in a sense, because the explicit declaration (you tell her how things are going to be, up front) that would have been effective at the very beginning of your relationship, will be ineffective and counterproductive, now.

    The idea is to select items, one at a time, that are small enough not to merit more than token resistance, but significant enough to demonstrate obvious tangible benefits, once implemented.

    In addition, you must simultaneously work on transforming yourself, by strengthening and expanding your masculine qualities.

    Seeing that your way is noticeably better will start to reduce her tendency to resist, but this must be allowed to chip away at her mindset in a way that is natural for her.

    You must never say anything like “I told you so”, because that would reverse any steps that had been taken in your direction, and reinvigorate future resistance.

    Eventually, all of these little things will add up to everything, and this new approach will have evolved into “this is how we do things”, in her mind, especially since this new hierarchy will match her natural inclinations.

  48. Let’s regroup around one of the concepts: in the current SMP if the man always has to initiate, then he is beta. Period.

    If the man almost always gets shot down after trying to initiate, then he is beta. Period. His miniscule successes are the exceptions that prove the rule. Period.

    The womenz at Donal’s are of the opinion that men shouldn’t take women’s opinions seriously: The women keep saying that initiating and being shot down, because women are of the opinion he isn’t good enough, are part and parcel of being a man, and hence a man shouldn’t care about women’s opinions and shouldn’t adjust his approach to avoid being shot down.

  49. According to strategic pluralism theory (Gangestad & Simpson, 2000), men have evolved to pursue reproductive strategies that are contingent on their value on the mating market. More attractive men accrue reproductive benefits from spending more time seeking multiple mating partners and relatively less time investing in offspring. In contrast, the reproductive effort of less attractive men, who do not have the same mating opportunities, is better allocated to investing heavily in their mates and offspring and spending relatively less time seeking additional mates.

    http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/comm/haselton/papers/downloads/Frederick_Haselton_2007_Muscularity_sexy.pdf

    Violent displays of mate guarding from a man that a woman perceives as Alpha is definitely a turn-on, but my article isn’t about the ‘displays’ but rather a man’s reasoning for having a preoccupation with mate guarding and the subconscious behaviors that telegraph his ‘need’.

    Doubtless a woman will swoon for an Alpha who’ll confirm her associative value to him by mate guarding her, but his mate guarding is similar to the rare reward of a display of Beta sensitivity women so value from Alpha men.

    A Beta mindset is defined by a compulsive necessity to mate guard both proactively and reactively.

  50. “Is she averse or repulsed by your ejaculate being on her skin, in her mouth or overly concerned with soiling a bed sheet?”

    I first saw this with Archwinger over at TRP who describes this exactly in a marriage. This is perhaps the clearest Beta Tell in a marriage. If she jumps up immediately after sex to wash out that disgusting Beta spooj you can be sure she thinks of you as a Beta and is performing nothing but Duty Sex.

    My wife did this for years. The interesting thing is when I discovered the Red Pill and upped my Alpha by a huge margin she stopped- despite (or perhaps because) of a greatly increase size of the wet spot. Go figure.

  51. Rollo mentions “Doubtless a woman will swoon for an Alpha who’ll confirm her associative value to him by mate guarding her, but his mate guarding is similar to the rare reward of a display of Beta sensitivity women so value from Alpha men.”

    Bingo.

  52. Regarding situational alphas. Repeat the mantra “there is no beta with a side of alpha”, but there is definitely alpha with a side of beta.

    Many men, such as me, are beta through and through because they are beta around women even if not “beta” around men. For example, Bill Gates is beta through and through because he is beta around women, and his “alphaness” in the boardroom doesn’t matter at all. I know a lot of men who are betas around their wives, and invariably they are betas around other women too.

    On the flipside I know very few men who are alpha at home with their wives and beta everywhere else. This is an example of what I would call situational alpha. I do not think this has ever been common except in primitive societies. And it has everything to do with the wife feeling subservient, and nothing to do with the man’s actual alphaness (e.g. towards other women).

  53. “I have very few comments and receive no email contact regarding how offensive my content is to women’s sensibilities.”

    That’s because most women who read your blog are too appalled to comment on its content, plus they have seen how nastily you treat women and men who dare to say something unfavorable.

    Don’t flatter yourself believing that you are somehow an exception from the virulent misogyny and hideous idiocy of TRP.

  54. @eon

    Excellent comments. The key is to have a clear SMV edge and know for yourself, irrespective of how much you love your woman, that this love will never hold you hostage to a bad situation. Your woman should know that and provided that you treat her well and she feels that she has optimized her hypergamy, she will bend over backwards to make you happy. This can allow a man to be genuinely in love and treat his woman warmly, while at the same time, implicitly stating that it is not an option to revert to any other form of relationship.

    I had a talk of exactly that nature with my GF last night. She is a great girl but I see her getting a little lazy in going the extra mile. She still initiates sex and wants it, but I see a bit slipping. So, I tell her in simple terms. I love you and want to be with you but will only be with a woman who always makes me a priority. Even if we are married and have kids in 10 years, I will never put up with a situation where I am not getting constant affection from my mate. Life is too short. Message sent and received with full understanding a promises to do better.

  55. A big part of getting the relationship you want is maximizng your SMV advantage to demand that your happiness becomes a central part of her life. It has to be the right woman of course, but nevertheless, you will not get that kind of treatment unless she knows that it is what you expect and that no other option is even permissible. Monogamy and family can be great experiences for men (I grew up in a house like that) but they have to be approached from an “I demand this life” mindset where a man can have concrete tools for ensuring its creation. Otherwise, chaos will ensue.

  56. That’s because most women who read your blog are too appalled to comment on its content, plus they have seen how nastily you treat women and men who dare to say something unfavorable.

    Aww, your friend Brody doesn’t think so.

    Nasty: anything remotely challenging an ego-investment.

    If your convictions were what you believe them to be the floor has always been open for you to express them. If those convictions are challenged it’s up to you to validate them, not complain about having your sensibilities bruised.

    Women, and feminine-identifying men, have always been encouraged to present their arguments here, just know that there are no boxing gloves here to come off, it’s always been bare-knuckles at RM. Even when that means I take one on the chin.

  57. @Lint

    Non-trolling, well presented challenges to the red pill have been taken seriously here before. The problem usually is that the challenges fall apart when they rely upon unsupported invective such as “virulent misogyny” and “hideous idiocy”.

  58. Much as I enjoy a good debate and challenges to any one of my beliefs, I have to say that this is the last place I would want to see the FIs making their case.
    RM is the smartest and most intellectually honest RP blog out there and even the comments here are a source of intelligent debate and information. Lets be honest here, the feminists and the white knights will not argue rationally or intelligently, it will always, every time, descend into name calling, shaming and solipsism.

  59. mate guarding; I let the mates do the guarding. About every two months or so I’ll tell some dude “good luck” when he gets to the point one of the girls is getting pissy about the approaches. So it comes down to frame. When I think of betas doing the mate guarding its from a position of weakness. When I do it its challenge accepted and good luck to you; you’ll need it

  60. @Hobbes, from Nursing Power:
    https://therationalmale.com/2013/11/25/nursing-power/

    A handful of my male readers often ask why I don’t moderate comments, or that the message of Rational Male would be better served if I banned certain commenters. I’ve mentioned on several posts and threads as to why I won’t ever do that (except for blatant spamming), but in a nutshell it’s my fundamental belief that the validity of any premise or idea should be able to withstand public debate. People who aren’t confident of the strength of their assertions or ideas, or are more concerned with profiting from the branding of those weak assertions than they are in truth, are the first to cry about the harshness of their critics and kill all dissent as well as all discourse about those assertions.

    That’s the primary reason I’ve never moderated; if people think I’m full of shit I’m all ears – I’m not so arrogant as to think I’ve thought of every angle about any idea I express here or on any other forum. However, the second reason I don’t censor, ban users or delete comments is that I believe it’s useful to have critics (usually women or fem-men) provide the gallery with examples of exactly the mentality or dynamic I’m describing in an essay. With a fair amount of predictability, a blue pill male or an upset woman will just as often prove my point for me and serve as a model for what I’ve described.

    I never intentionally try to make rubes out of the critics I know will chime in about something, but I will sometimes leave out certain considerations I may have already thought about something, knowing it will get picked up on by a critic. I do this on occasion because the I know that the “ah hah! I got him, he forgot about X,Y, Z” moment serves as a better teaching tool and confirms for me that a critic does in fact comprehend what I’m going on about.

    Lint would be well served to remember this and compare it too echo chambers like HUS where only a handful of select sycophantic commenters are allowed to agree with the ‘anecdata’ sputtered off by its proprietor.

    Silencing opposing perspectives is the first indication of weak premises and convictions.

  61. When a woman says “He’s not a good leader *because* he’s not leading me the way I think I should be led.” then he’s beta if and only if she’s not actually following him.

    When a woman says “He is a good leader *because* he is leading me the way I want to be led.” then he’s beta, regardless of whether she’s actually following or not.

    When a woman says “I’m trying to be a good follower of him; I hope and pray he thinks so.” then he’s alpha, regardless of whether he’s a good leader or not.

  62. This is still a men’s lockerroom, not yet sanitized for women’s convenience. If it is the malodorous atmosphere that keeps women from primacy, then make a stink, here and elsewhere.

  63. Rollo, try to fix the typos in the first sentence, I passed this on to a big name journalist that understands what’s going on today and I don’t want him to be turned off by the typos at the start and not read the blog.

  64. Livefearless mentioned The Script being a recipe for beta. Certainly I as a boomer, but I think most other generations too, were raised on The Script of men trying to be pleasing to women, and lately feminism has been doubling down on raising women to refuse to be pleasing to men.

    I think what women find most appalling about this place is that with the redpill we can clearly see that women ought to be trying harder to please men.

  65. Beta tell: wife makes husband hold her purse so she can shop easier.
    Beta tell: wife makes husband hand her his wallet so she can shop easier.

    The deciding factor: if he has to do what she wants to make her happy, then he’s beta. The better beta he is, the more he has to do for her.

    If he’s alpha, then she has to try to make him happy INSTEAD. period.

  66. The semen one is ingenious, Rollo.

    Does she submissively grovel before your erection and moan while blowing you?

    Does she dislike your smell when you’re dirty and sweaty?

    Does she “bust your balls” or subtly make fun of you or make smart-assed remarks to you in front of others?

    Does she mildly humiliate you in front of others and reveal an irrepressible smile after doing so?

    Does she wield authority over you?

    Does she subtly flaunt that authority in front of others? Eg, ask you to get her things? Eg, get up to get her a drink? Her purse?

    Does she regularly interrupt you in conversation? Does she interrupt you in front of others? Finish your sentences in front of others or take over a story you’re telling?

    “Is she consciously aware of being 1-2 points above your own relative SMV? Is she overt about it?” Because of the SMV disparity, does she presume you owe her or are in her debt? A high status woman will feel instinctively a lower status Beta will owe her for the sex she has give him and if he doesn’t “pay” she will feel cheated or “used.”

  67. Does she regularly interrupt you in conversation? Does she interrupt you in front of others? Finish your sentences in front of others or take over a story you’re telling?

    I should’ve added this.

    I have a couple of friends who still do counseling and they always do the dominance test when they begin with a couple. They first ask the husband to tell them or a group about themselves, interests, some story, etc. If the wife interjects or answers for him, or he defers to her to ‘help’ him tell his personal story they know his Beta status is confirmed and what the established relationship dynamic is.

  68. According to Gottman, it is the wife’s contemptuous *behavior* that causes most relationship problems, and the number one predictor of divorce is the husband’s *feelings* that his wife is contemptuous.

  69. Does she emasculate you in front of others by pointing out how wonderful, how successful or how attractive another man is?

    I have seen this something happening to a distant friend of mine whose girlfriend always does this. The first time this happened I was taken aback and just stared at them and he did not even blink – he did not even realize how degrading that is to him.

    Not passing shit-tests of any kind is a Beta tell as well.

    Appeasing a woman whenever she is in a slightly bad mood.

  70. @bbb

    “Does she initiate sex or affection spontaneously?”

    I don’t see this as a beta tell. If she wants to have sex with you, aren’t you exhibiting alpha?

    This IS a beta tell. Women innately want the man to take the initiative especially sexually. They want to be desired by a man who is uninhibited and self confident. They want to be fucked. If she is the one initiating, then he has not initiated and she is the aggressor. Alphas initiate.

  71. Initiating sex is about who wants it more. If she does it, there is your answer. After she initiates, an an alpha, you dominate.

  72. Women initiate sex:

    George – “This IS a beta tell.”

    I’ve had women initiate 25% of the time in my limited experience. As a beta I have to agree with George. But I would add context matters and without context I think it could go either way. I would also question what is the motivation of the average woman to initiate sex with a beta if betas are supposed to be devoid of arousal traits.

  73. And Rollo thanks for posting this. This is the sort of information that needs to be assembled and printed on 3×5 cards as a cheat sheet for the newly unplugged. Maybe you should think about a smartphone app; The Rationale Male Field Reference Guide.

  74. When I read The Rational Male and began reading this blog I immediately thought this entire endeavor is a reaction of male weakness and self depreciation. I still think this. The existence of the manosphere itself is a reaction to social dynamics. Man has placed woman upon a pedestal. Men (most men) are apparently content to let women set the standards to which men judge themselves and each other. The process of “becoming red pill aware” in this context is actually a process in which men still defer their sense of self worth to women. The red pill concept is based upon realizations and fears of what woman is doing or could do. Are womens responses the standard by which we should judge ourselves and each other? Only a man who defers his self worth to women would be concerned with taking such a “red pill” and analyze himself and other men as “betas” or “alphas” accordingly. Everything discussed here is centered upon women and if she perceives a man as “alpha” or “beta”. His perception of her frames this entire school of thought. She is the goal by which he seeks personal affirmation and validation through a perceived alpha-beta sexual dynamic. Are we really accomplishing anything here? Why have we men put women in a position of ANY power over us? Time to wake the fuck up!

  75. Becoming red pill aware is about living your life for you and on your terms. Women happen to recognize that and are attracted to such men. If you are not getting alpha tells from a woman, that means you are not red pill aware in a real way, but even if you are getting alpha tells, it does not mean that you are living life on your terms. It simply means women find you attractive for other reasons (physical, temporary infatuation with your money, etc.)).

  76. @ Hobbes – I can relate to your comment in a number of ways. As I look more deeply into how this plays out in my life, I see that sometimes I confuse sexual market value with alpha status in women’s eyes. I also find much of this analysis hard to act on in the moment, and in fact, the more I’m thinking, the more beta I am.

    For me, my smv went up and down based on weight, but I was blessed with natural good looks, even though only 5’8″. I have been with many dimes, my ex-wife being both homecoming and prom queen. My behavior seems to me to have been a mix of alpha and beta behaviors, but using Rollo’s view that what matters is how the women treat you, I have to say that I was mostly beta in my behaviors in once I got married. I was a beta disaster in my marriage – and yes, that was hard to see. But the good news is that I don’t give a fuck anymore, lol – it’s all water under the bridge and I live for the now and what’s best for me. And lying to myself or regretting my past are unproductive. I even realize that I can’t turn myself into an alpha, but I also don’t take all this so literally, and frankly I don’t really give a shit about that either.

    Yet. I’m 5’8″ but people never think I’m short, and more than a few women have reacted with shock when I tell them my height They all think I’m 5’10” or 11″. I always attributed that to my social dominance. I’m smart, creative (gigging musician as a hobby), successful and generally an aggressive person. I also do not take shit from anyone – hence the social dominance bit. This seems to have worked to attract women who were submissive to me at times in my life. It seems to me that the relationships where I didn’t give a shit were the ones where the woman’s behavior was signalling alpha. And this is true whether a 10 or a 7. In fact, when I look back now, I realize it was almost always when I was spinning plates to some degree or another that women gave me alpha tells.

    Marriage took away my plates and I became a groveling, yet resentful, beta. I did actually stand up on my hind legs before too long and got out, but by then she’s started to fuck someone else. The second I put her on the spot, she began fucking the next guy. She wrecked him too, fyi. Funnily, the best sex my wife and I would have was when I came home late, after going out drinking. She would become a sexual wildwoman when I stumbled into bed at 2 am on those evenings – no matter what. I now know that was “dread”.

    Yet when I got “serious”, I would always fall back on “earning” a woman and the more I tried to do that, the worse it would get. At the same time, I learned to become sexually dominant with women, but not all of them. So my experience has been mixed in many ways.

    Now? The answer is easy. My life is a self-improvement project, and I’m a selfish prick. If a woman isn’t giving me what I want – she’s out. I only do reciprocal relationships now – if I give, I get. Period. No exceptions. Family, friends, women – who ever. Alpha, beta – whatever, it’s about me. Perhaps the best change I’ve made is taking up weight lifting seriously. Putting on muscle changes my entire appearance. I’ve put on enough upper body weight now where I’m getting more of a V shaped torso, with muscular chest, arms and shoulders – and everyone treats me differently. Men and women, it’s crazy.

    Just got a verbal on the svp job I mentioned on my last post – my dream job actually. Two years ago it was unthinkable that my defeated, blue pill miserable, beaten up and dejected-by-female betrayal ass would even be considered for this kind of role. For me, the Red Pill has been nothing short of revolutionary. Putting me back in the center of my life. Not my daughter, not some women, not my brothers or sisters – me, first and last. If I’m not happy, I leave. If I don’t want to go, I don’t. If someone gets out of line, I tell them – and I don’t give a shit anymore.

    And you know what? People treat me better than they ever have, lol. I don’t claim to have made some amazing transformation to being alpha, but I do think what I’ve done is become a whole lot more comfortable being in my own skin. Being an aggressive, ambitious, rational, and resilient motherfucker in every thing I do without being self conscious or caring much about what others think is liberating, to say the least. And seeing what’s really going on between men and women is so empowering. I’m tuning in my natural amused mastery and it just gets better and better – and I’m never confused about what’s going on. I even accept now that I’m 52 and my best days of pulling hotties are behind me. I got more than my share. It’s okay, life is life. Before all this I was also in a panic over getting older so being relieved of that alone is very worthwhile. I may have to settle for a 40 year old, oh well. 🙂

    Women still rent space in my head sometimes, and again, analysis doesn’t seem to work on this either. In fact, the only thing that works is spinning plates. Lately, my young nymphomaniac friend has been causing some drama and I got sucked in for a tick or two, but I quickly caught myself and immediately reached out to Ashley. Problem solved – it’s just amazing, all I need to do is put my focus on another woman and I’m fine. They really are interchangeable in this sense, and realizing this is very important for every man – alpha or beta.

    Another great piece, thanks Rollo.

  77. @ George

    I see it differently. To get rid of the subconscious programs, you have to go with the programs.

    The reality is simply that the majority of men defer to women. Most men are drowning in their emotions surrounding women and have no resources to pull themselves out. They only have one option: feel helpless and hopeless.

    In order to remedy this, you have to appeal to the desire to defer to women. Go with the program. And the program is “I need women to make me happy,” or maybe more specifically, “I need unconditional love from women to make me happy.” This is the subconscious program that runs AFC’s lives. There is no way around it.

    AFC’s will find this blog and read it in the hopes that they can land that girl that LJBF’d them, or get back their cheating girlfriend. They don’t yet understand that they’re degrading themselves. They don’t yet understand that they’re looking outside themselves for what’s missing inside themselves — and because of that, they will never find what they’re missing outside themselves. It’s impossible.

    The Red Pill is a time release capsule. It enters the system very slowly. Anger, rage, denial, etc., aren’t caused by the Red Pill — it simply brings the emotions and old hurts and pains that were buried to the surface.

    It’s much like reading about child abuse, having been abused but never having it acknowledged. Did the article hurt you, or was it just that it stirred up hurt that was already inside of you that you couldn’t understand, couldn’t put words to, and had no way of processing? And now that there are some words and logic to make sense of the situation, and you can understand it better.

    It brings up all the old hurts. It seems like the article is doing it to you, but it’s really you doing it to yourself. It’s stuff coming up inside of your mind that you swept under the rug because you didn’t have the resources or the skills or the knowledge to deal with it.

    That being said, it’s ironic that the Red Pill seems like it’s about how to have better relationships with women, but the Red Pill is ultimately a mirror: it’s showing us that our poor relationships with women are a result of having poor relationships with ourselves.

    What is alpha? What is the red pill? What are they really about? Improving our relationship with ourselves. It’s really very much in line with the Law of Attraction — people will say what they will about it, but whatever you have inside of you, you will get more of it.

    If in your mind you defer to women, think of yourself as having to qualify to them, appeal to them to win their love — what you’ll get in return is being treated like a chump. Because what’s inside your mind is the mentality of a chump. You are running the chump program. You are running the program of low self-esteem, low confidence, and low self-respect.

    For all the talk about Game, I think the best way to develop it is to become highly tuned into yourself and what you’re producing in your mind. Do you think of women romantically because you have fantasies about deferring to them, or do you think about them mostly sexually? When you think about women, what do you see? A cute girl you’d really love to have sex with and could have a great time with, or a reminder of all your rejections, your inferiority, why you’re not good enough, your insignificance, how poorly you compare to other men she might’ve been with, etc.?

    The Red Pill has been a huge transformative journey for me. It’s an ongoing process. After I started working through the intense hatred/anger/resentment/hurt that was stirred up (not created) by reading this stuff, and started taking ownership of it — things started clicking more about Game and Red Pill awareness.

    We all have to face our demons before we can move forward. One of the most noxious of those demons is the insanely intense emotional attachment to our idealizations of women — vs. seeing women as they really are and dealing with them accordingly, i.e. according to our best interests as men.

    I would’ve made this much clearer if I could have. But I’m still integrating this stuff myself. Again, it’s a process — time release capsule.

    But to summarize, it isn’t about deferring to women. If you take that to an extreme the only real solution to that would be spiritual practice. Buddha said any man who has even the slightest attachment to or desire for women at all is like a little calf suckling at its mothers teats.

    To me that’s an extreme. I can see what they’re saying but I much prefer the Taoist parable about the guy who fucked whores at a brothel until he saw the emptiness in sex, and lost his attachment to it that way, instead of depriving himself.

    Quite the opposite, actually. And I think a lot of guys would be much better off fucking a lot more girls and getting some real world experience so they can release their attachment to women and sex in a similar way. Experience it for yourself and realize that “love” isn’t all it’s cracked up to be — but it doesn’t mean that you can’t enjoy your life and have good relationships with women.

    Anyway, I’m getting off track here. But this is a deep topic, to be fair. It covers way more ground than can really be expressed in words.

  78. Red Pill is not about fucking girls. It is about entering relationships with women on the terms that make sense to you and not changing your innate preferences in those relationships while demanding reciprocity from women. It means never qualifying for a woman’s affection and making clear that you value nothing beyond your happiness. That can mean being a cad, being a dad or anything in between……but it has to always be only on your terms….and that’s it..

  79. @George:

    Red Pill is unplugging from an evaluation of yourself which is based upon how you perceive women evaluate you. Ironically, and some may say strangely, when you take that attitude, women will evaluate you more highly. Being Alpha means a lot of things, but a necessary condition of Alpha is not being needy with respect to women – truly not caring whether you get laid or are loved by a woman, not caring if a woman turns you down (because you know women evaluate men based upon shallow reasons). And when you know women evaluate men for shallow, flighty, predictable and knowable reasons, you stop caring when a woman turns you down and, ironically, your ego is no longer stroked when a woman wants you.

    I can’t speak for Rollo, but I would say his article is less about teaching people how to elicit given reactions from women than a study on how women react to low vs high status men.

  80. @ Glenn

    “Perhaps the best change I’ve made is taking up weight lifting seriously. Putting on muscle changes my entire appearance. I’ve put on enough upper body weight now where I’m getting more of a V shaped torso, with muscular chest, arms and shoulders – and everyone treats me differently. Men and women, it’s crazy.”

    I recently started doing my hair differently. I have very thick/wavy hair and I started styling it like James Dean. I’ve noticed I’ve been getting more attention since then. A girl at work today said “You are killing me with that haircut.” I also got some very unique necklaces and a very cool ring. I like wearing it on my index finger because in palmistry the index finger is connected to the Jupiter aspect of the personality — authority, self-assertion, making space for yourself in the world.

    I was always into mythology, astrology, shamanism and all that stuff. Just always found it incredibly fascinating. So I’ve just been indulging that part of myself by either making my own jewelry or looking for cool stuff and trying it out. I’ve gotten a lot of compliments on this stuff and people are treating me differently now but all I changed was giving myself the opportunity to treat myself better and have more fun with my life and expressing myself the way I want to, for no other reason than I think it’s cool and I want to do it.

    Anyway I’ve changed my look completely, also got some really nice oxfords and am keeping those polished and waxed, some nice shirts and pants too. I realized my entire ‘wardrobe’ was a mishmash of stuff that looked horrible and nothing went well together. Just a few years ago when my beard was all crazy looking (keeping it trimmed/shaved now) and my hair was grown out I got stopped by a cop while I was walking around the block because he thought I was homeless and wanted to know if I needed a ride. A girl at a college came up to me and said her friend said I looked like a serial killer, and this little girl at Wendy’s told me I looked like a werewolf.

    Those days are behind me now 🙂

  81. @Rollo

    Okay, let’s see if I got this…

    Mate Guarding is not attractive to a woman, especially if she perceives her partner to be a beta. (Ex. specifically his motivations behind the behavior; neediness, scarcity mentality)

    But,

    Assertive Ownership is attractive to a woman, especially if she perceives her partner to be an alpha. (Ex. specifically his motivations behind the behavior; marking his territory, abundance mentality)

    The reason I’m so interested in the whole mate guarding thing is because, I figure, if I can find out where these feelings come from I can better prepare myself to deal with them, or get rid of them altogether.

    I do remember, about three years ago, I had oneitis with a girl I never got physical with, got a bj from her friend, a fb who was a coworker of hers and I had just started seeing this girl I worked with at the pub.

    Looking back I can now see that I valued them differently.

    The ‘oneitis girl’, that I was never physical with, I would get jealous when she would not hang out with me or I would feel bad when I heard about one of her carousel stories.

    I only fooled around with the ‘bj girl’ so I could get closer to oneitis girl. Weird, I know.

    The ‘fb coworker friend of hers’ I remember not giving two shits about. The last text I got from her was, “Miss ya, wanna kiss ya :)” I didn’t respond. And that brings me to the next one.

    I stopped communicating with all of them to try and exclusively date the ‘girl I worked with at the pub’. I’m sure you guys already know how that worked out.

    What I’m getting at here is I think mate guarding, assertive ownership (first time I’ve heard that word) and jealousy might have to do with what your partners overall value is to you.

    Am I on the right track?

  82. “her friend said I looked like a serial killer, and this little girl at Wendy’s told me I looked like a werewolf.”
    Problem?
    You sound like a natural&synergistic fit for Glasgow. Come over and fill yer boots son. But ixnay on the ickchay crack, ok? Fuckin arsetrollogy, whur’s ma wee malkie got tae?

  83. From The Unbearable Triteness of Hating:
    http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2010/05/27/the-unbearable-triteness-of-hating/

    16. Dancing Monkey Hate

    Hater: Men who run game are just doing the bidding of women. Alphas don’t entertain women.

    If you want success with women, you are going to have to entertain them… one way or the other. The same is true of women. Once a woman stops entertaining men with her body, her femininity, and her commitment worthiness by getting fat, old, ugly, bitchy, or single mom-y, she stops having success with men. We are all doing the bidding of our biomechanical overlord, and on our knees to his will we surrender, by force or by choice. You fool yourself if you believe you have some plenary indulgence from this stark reality.
    Or: If you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em.

  84. @badpainter

    Context matters for the semen “tell” too. My ex-wife used to go to the toilet to expel my load from her a**hole shortly after deposition. I think it was more a matter of cleanliness/hygiene (and not dripping c*m all over the place) than necessarily considering me a full-blown (pardon the pun) beta.

  85. I spot mate guarding all the time now. Mate guarding is essentially a PDA (public display of affection). If you’re the one grabbing her hand, kissing her, or putting your arm around her, then that is a form of mate guarding. If she is the one initiating the PDA then she perceives you as Alpha and of high value.

  86. @dcllcd re: confused.

    Maybe this helps: everything you were taught by society on how to be a True Man, a Good Man, etc. was designed specifically to make you more beta, in service to the FI.

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