Beta Tells

couple-talking-3

 

TRP poster, needathrowawayplease from the Red Pill subreddit has a timely question / observation:

Knowing your SO’s menstrual cycle can be extremely powerful. [Indeed]

During the fertile stage of her cycle, thousands of years of evolution mean her body is screaming at her to get knocked up by an alpha male. A simple test to determine is she sees you as her alpha fucks is to not initiate during the fertile period of her cycle and observe her behavior: does she come to you to get fucked? Does her body language or physical behavior change when she’s fertile. Maybe she touches you more often or more intimately or plays the role of the seductress: things like coming to bed wearing lingerie where she usually wouldn’t? Even if she’s relatively low-sex drive and doesn’t initiate, does she at least respond more passionately to your sexual advances or orgasm more easily or intensely when she’s fertile?

You obviously can’t draw conclusions from a single cycle but you should eventually see a pattern – and the more she values you sexually during her fertile period the better. If she isn’t doing anything differently or reacting to you differently when she’s fertile, something’s up.

This test can have false negatives but not false positives. There’s no false positive case where she suddenly starts riding you while you’re watching the Packers game but she doesn’t see you as her alpha. But it can have false negatives where she doesn’t initiate but still sees you as her alpha. If she isn’t initiating when she’s fertile (and you aren’t initiating in order to test her reaction), it could be due to stress, lack of time, being too used to you doing the initiation, etc. But at the very least she should be demonstrating increased passion and sexual ecstasy during her fertile period.

At a high-level:

The best case: She initiates during her fertile period if you don’t. She gets cravings for your D.

The OK case: She responds more passionately and orgasms more easily during her fertile period.

The uh-oh, something might be wrong case: No observable change during her fertile period.

The beta case: Dead bedroom, what the fuck are you even doing (sorry if you got married and you can’t get out).

Of course if she’s an extremely sexual being and all of the above describes your sex life 24/7, then none of this should even concern you.

Disclaimer: Once again, this test is a tool that works best for women with higher sex drives (who really wanna get fucked when they’re fertile). If your 37 year old wife of 15 years fucks you when you want and isn’t cheating, you’re fine. I don’t think test applies to all women (LOL, broke /trp/ rules oops) but it’s useful nonetheless.

Lets presume for a moment that neither a controlled experiment nor an uncontrolled, but documented, correlatively scientific, sociological field study has ever been performed to test the principle of feminine Hypergamy. For a moment, as a man, imagine yourself living in a period of time prior to any formalized school of psychology; pre-turn of the 20th century. There is no Pavlov, there is no Skinner, there is no Freud.

Using only personal observations, observations of learned behaviors related by your father and brothers, male friends and the intergender experiences of a very socially isolated (by today’s standards) group of  people who make up your peers, and a restrictively limited access to any classic philosophical literature beyond the Judeo-Christian Bible – what would you presume would be the nature inimical to women and the feminine?

Would your observations, intuition and the education proffered by your father, brothers and other influential male friends and relations lead to an insight to know what Hypergamy is, how it motivates women and how to control for, or capitalize on it?

Not only do I believe it would, but I would argue that, up until the sexual revolution and the past 60 or so years, men have had an innate and learned understanding of Hypergamy, how it functions, and how to control for it.

To be sure, it didn’t have the formal name of ‘Hypergamy’ – in fact that term was until recently, strictly defined and reserved for “women with the tendency to marry above their socioeconomic level” in polite, pop-psychology circles – but men knew Hypergamy before the manopshere (re)exposed its true definition.

Waging Hypergamy

Resistance to the uncomfortable truths innate to the female experience is to be expected from women – until the advent of Open Hypergamy, the Feminine Imperative needed the sisterhood to be united and its secrets jealously guarded to the point of cognitive dissonance.

My guess is that most of my female critics would still agree with the basic parameters of Hypergamy, but what I doubt they’re aware of is that in denying the inherent biological nature of female Hypergamy women must also reject the sociological, psychological and (observably) behavioral aspects of Hypergamy inherent (and largely subconscious) in women.

Commenter Mookie:

“As women approach the Epiphany Phase (later the Wall) and realize the decay of their SMV (in comparison to younger women), they become progressively more incentivized towards attraction to the qualities a man possesses that will best satisfy the long-term security of the Beta Bucks side of her Hypergamy demands.”

Did your woman say, “you’re (so much) different than the guys I used to date.” Or, “I finally got smart and found a good guy.” If so, this is clear evidence that you are her Beta Bucks guy. Maybe she used to date DJs, NFL players, drug dealers, whatever. If these guys are different types of guys than you, do NOT continue the relationship. She has no clue, but she is rationalizing her choice in her mind. You will pay a severe price later, as in cheating, nonstop bitchiness, or sudden divorce. Find a girl that always dated guys like you. She may have swooned for the lead guitarist, but if she didn’t devote her early 20s to chasing him, you’re okay.

Beta Tells

One of the more common questions I’m asked in consults is whether something a guy did was ‘Beta’ or not. Usually it was a situation wherein the guy was instinctually sensitive to his own behavior in context to his Frame and how the woman he was dealing with perceived him. In most cases a man knows when he’s slipped in his perception of dominance with a woman, they just look for a third party confirmation of it – which is then followed by more rationalizations for why his behavior shouldn’t be considered Beta because they believe women are equally rational, equally forgiving, agents as men (really he is) are.

From Gut Check:

Whenever you feel something isn’t quite right in your gut, what this is is your subconscious awareness alerting you to inconsistencies going on around you. We tend to ignore these signs in the thinking that our rational mind ‘knows better’ and things really aren’t what they seem. It’s not as bad as you’re imagining, and you can even feel shame or guilt with yourself for acknowledging that lack of trust. However, it’s just this internal rationalization that keeps us blind to the obvious that our subconscious is trying to warn us about. Humans are creatures of habit with an insatiable need to see familiarity in other people’s actions. So when that predictable behavior changes even marginally, our instinctual perceptions fire off all kinds of warnings. Some of which can actually effect us physically.

It’s at this point most guys make the mistake of acting on the “good communication solves everything” feminized meme and go the full disclosure truth route, which only really leads to more rationalizations and repression of what’s really going on. What they don’t realize is that the MEDIUM is the message; her behavior, her nuances, the incongruousness in her words and demeanor (and how your gut perceives them) is the real message. There is an irregularity in her behavior that your subconscious is alerting you to which your consciousness either cannot or will not recognize.

I began the Alpha Tells post with the intent of recognizing how a woman behaves when she’s in the presence of a Man she perceives to be Alpha. A lot of men get hung up on trying to ‘act’ Alpha; wanting to ape (and hopefully internalize) the behavioral tells a more confident Alpha displays.

Consequently there’s a lot of debate about how men posture and how they naturally display these Alpha cues, but I think the best gauge of what defines those cues is not in men’s displays, but women’s behaviors and attitudes that are prompted by a perception of Alpha-ness.

And just as women will respond viscerally to an Alpha perception, they will also manifest behaviors which indicate her subconscious knows she’s dealing with a Beta aligned male.

It’s easy to pick apart what a guy thinks are his own Alpha tells, but it’s far more uncomfortable to dissect women’s Beta tells when they’re in the presence of men they perceive to be Beta. Much of what I’ll outline that follows will be hard to read for many guys, and as always you’re free to disagree.

My purpose here isn’t to bash Betas, rather it’s to increase awareness of women’s behaviors toward them. As I’ve explained above, try to put these behaviors into a Hypergamous context and how they would be perceived by women who’ve evolved to have an instinctual sensitivity to these Beta behaviors, as well as expressions of Beta attitudes in your words and emotional emphasis.

I could very easily compile a list of behaviors that are simply the reverse of the Alpha Tells I noted in the previous post, but it’s much more important to address the root reasons for these Beta Tells:

  • Does she initiate sex or affection spontaneously?
  • Does she entertain a large pool of “male friend” orbiters with the expectation of you being ‘mature enough’ to accept it?
  • Does she keep a core peer group of ‘girlfriends’ she insists on prioritizing over being with you? Frequent GNOs?
  • Has she explained to you how she was so different  in college and how she’s glad those days are behind her now?
  • Is she experiencing her Epiphany Phase?
  • Does she cite “mismatched libidos” as a reason for her lack of sexual interest in you now that you’re married or living together (even after she’s had better sex with you or a former lover when single)?
  • Is she averse or repulsed by your ejaculate being on her skin, in her mouth or overly concerned with soiling a bed sheet?
  • Will she have sex with you anywhere besides the bed?
  • Do you perform oral on her to get her off more than you have intercourse?
  • Is she a wide-eyed lover or does she squint her eyes closed while having sex? Is sex a chore for her to perform?
  • If you’re married, did she assume your last name, or did she insist on a hyphenated surname for herself?
  • When you’re together does her regular, unpracticed body posture indicate an openness or are you always having to break into her intimate space?
  • Is she preoccupied with her side of the family or a certain pet in preference to being concerned with your well-being?
  • Is she consciously aware of being 1-2 points above your own relative SMV? Is she overt about it?
  • Does she presume authority in your relationship? Do you accede this authority as a matter of (equalist) belief?

There are many more tells of course, and I hope more will be presented in the commentary, but it’s important to understand that these behaviors and attitudes are manifestations of a woman who on some level of consciousness understands that she’s dealing with a Beta man.

I should also mention that, as with Stephen’s case in Moments of Clarity, there are particular phases of a woman’s life when she becomes more attuned to dealing with Beta men due to perceived necessities on her part. A clear understanding of how these phases predispose women to convince themselves to be more accepting of Beta behaviors and a Beta mindset is imperative to avoiding the common pitfalls men encounter with regard to issues of Frame in their relationships.

Beta men are all too eager to believe they’ve matured into being a self-defined Alpha when a semi-attractive 29 year old in the midst of her Epiphany Phase is giving him wide-eyed indicators of interest in him. Only after she’s consolidated on that long-term security does he realize the plans her sexual strategy had for him.

Predisposition for Mate Guarding

One of the best Beta tells is how defensive a guy gets about the subject of mate guarding.

An Alpha has little preoccupation with mate guarding because subconsciously he knows he has sexual options. That applies both within and without monogamy. I’m presenting this here because the majority of what motivates Beta tells (and really a Beta mindset) is rooted in how men deal with a scarcity mentality. Beta tells are almost always indicators that a man believes he needs to guard his paired woman and thus telegraphs a Beta status to that woman as well as other women in her peer clutch.

Mate guarding, and its intrinsic set of subconscious suspicions and behaviors, is an evolved adaptation of ensuring paternity for a Beta-provider. These men must rely upon exchanging resources and external benefits for women’s sexual fidelity. In essence, it’s an unspoken awareness that Beta men must negotiate for what they hope will be a woman’s genuine desire in exchange for his provisioning, parental investment support and emotional involvement.

Beta men are aware on on a limbic level that Hypergamy dictates an Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks trade-off in women’s sexual strategy – thus a subconscious ‘mate guarding’ mindset evolved from Beta men’s heightened awareness of women’s preference for Alpha Fucks particularly around the proliferative phase time of women’s ovulation.

Paradoxically, the best assurance you have of fidelity with a woman is simply not to allow yourself to become exclusively monogamous with a woman and rather, have her make the efforts to pair with you under her own auspices you being Alpha. Romance is not required from a lover a woman perceives as Alpha, only his sexual interest – this represents a confirmation of Hypergamous optimization for a woman. The fuck-buddy dynamic – all sexual interests with no reciprocal expectation of emotional investment  – is a strong Alpha tell for a man.

The best gauge for determining a woman’s perception of you as either an Alpha or Beta type is examining yourself and your feeling a ‘need’ to mate guard her, to appease her, or an impulse to correct yourself in order to align with her terms for intimacy. A scarcity mentality is the mental point of origin for a Beta mindset – and that internalized mental model will manifest itself in a predisposition for Beta behaviors.

There’s a common belief that even the most Alpha of men will at times slip into a Beta behaviorism. You can’t be ‘on’ your game all of the time, and while that’s true it doesn’t invalidate that women have a mental model of your overall, predominant condition being either Alpha or Beta. A predominantly Alpha frame and mindset (and yes, looks), plus an acknowledged (real or perceived) SMV primacy will cover a multitude of Beta sins, but the predominant Beta has the sisyphean task of convincing a woman he’s more Alpha than she pegs him for.

So to answer the man asking whether or not something he did was Beta, your answer really lies in your motivation for behaving ‘Beta’ as you did in comparison to how a woman perceives your predominant character.

 

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Hobbes
Hobbes
7 years ago

As to mate guarding- I think there is a perfect way of understanding the when/hows of it. If you are mate-guarding as protection- it is alpha if you are mate guarding out of fear- its beta If you are with a woman who flirts and gets flirted with and she handles it by flirting back or enjoy in it.. you basically have a very basic bitch. Mate guarding a woman who isn’t worth it is weak. Now if the guy hits on her and she doesn’t flirt back and if you sense she the guy is acting out of turn,… Read more »

xsplat
7 years ago

Oh, and maybe I also shouldn’t disagree with another of my Hero’s, Krauser, on his blog. Because after all, it’s his blog and his views should be agreed with there. Is that it? That whole attitude of group-think is counter productive to our individual as well as group interests. Dissent is invaluable. As is true argument. With real live real lived examples, as well as scientific studies backing up claims. And both issues where I disagree – the only issues I can think of – mateguarding and escalation, I am squarely in the right on this one, and time will… Read more »

Random Angeleno
Random Angeleno
7 years ago

context matters.

Last minute resistance is either a fitness test or it’s real. The trick is to tell the difference rather than simply being the guy who assumes it’s real every single time. And withdraws accordingly. Every single time. In my experience, everything that has happened to that point is fair game. You got to her somewhere, you lost her somewhere else, etc.

xsplat
7 years ago

And in case people missed it (I did at first), here is Rollo on the subject of mateguarding, as the well known and agreed turn on that it can be: Violent displays of mate guarding from a man that a woman perceives as Alpha is definitely a turn-on, but my article isn’t about the ‘displays’ but rather a man’s reasoning for having a preoccupation with mate guarding and the subconscious behaviors that telegraph his ‘need’. Doubtless a woman will swoon for an Alpha who’ll confirm her associative value to him by mate guarding her, but his mate guarding is similar… Read more »

Hobbes
Hobbes
7 years ago

Another Beta tell- the desirability of your mate. The more unattractive/unpleasant your mate is, the more beta you probably are. It’s a feedback loop. I don’t think it was a coincidence that it’s always with the highest quality women that I have been most alpha. Being with a pretty and pleasant woman gives a man confidence in himself. Being with a lower value woman sends the message to a man that this is the best he can do. I just realized this as I was writing about my ex. She was a solid 9 and if not for the fact… Read more »

jf12
jf12
7 years ago

I’m of the opinion that women never engage in a “make him jealous” strategy forthe purpose of trying to arouse or to keep a man’s interest. Instead, a wife who is bent on divorce often initiates an affair for the purpose of putting a nail into the coffin of the marriage. If a woman tried to make an alpha jealous, to try to make him serve her by working harder for her, I think we can all agree it would be a whole lot easier and more rational for him to next her and simply move on to one of… Read more »

redlight
redlight
7 years ago

dissent is good. the problem is when the arguments are weak, such as “Is your dog fungible? If you train up a dog from a puppy, would you just let some interloper come in and woo it away …”

interlopers are wooing dogs away? you prevent this by dog guarding? dog guarding is a alpha tell? what about other animals, hamster guarding, pussy guarding, cow guarding, ant guarding?
I got 99 problems but my dog ain’t one

Hobbes
Hobbes
7 years ago

Another realization- I guess I don’t want to rely on female cues for alpha/beta because having dated mostly latina women in Miami, I’ve found that you cannot rely on female behavior to tell you anything. Latinas are awesome at making you think you are alpha- they have it down to a science- then shanking a guy in his back and twisting the shiv. You date some Columbian/Cuban/Venezualan beauty and she will give you every alpha tell in the world.. she will rub your back, initiate sex, blow you in the car, scream your name and call you Papi, swallow your… Read more »

jf12
jf12
7 years ago

re: “Drunk Girl” hoax video.

Now we need a “10 Hours Of Stumbling As A Drunk Girl” hoax video. Actually, I’ve already seen a lot more of that than I ever wanted to.

jf12
jf12
7 years ago

@redlight, re: hamster guarding.

White Knighting is so manly! It’s, like, in the job description that the White Knight be a man!

xsplat
7 years ago

@Hobbes – I had to train up a young woman who was similar to as you described. She dressed poorly, didn’t cook or clean, and was sexually retarded.

It took a big investment in training.

I am responsible for the woman that she became. And to this day she thanks me for the demands that I made on her.

George
George
7 years ago

xsplat,

Which blog is yours.

xsplat
7 years ago

@Redlight, it is incomprehensible to me how the analogy eludes you.

Do you not have functioning normal human emotions? Or is your wiring such that you can’t parse analogies?

I could rewrite the analogy in a hundred different ways, but somehow I don’t think the communication problem is on my end.

xsplat
7 years ago

@george – the xsplat one. Or just click on my name above this post.

Frito Pandejo
Frito Pandejo
7 years ago

“Mate guarding a flirty woman is a waste of time. Even the lowest tramp knows that that is pretty cheap behavior when you are out with someone.” I have been going through this for the bulk of what has been an agonizing and very disappointing marriage up until about 12 mos. ago (largely thanks to the lessons here). It disgusted me. Totally humiliating and emasculating displays of flirtatious behavior with other men — even in my presence. Even suspect her of a past infidelity, but no hard proof. And man, I mate guarded hard. But it was from the worst… Read more »

George
George
7 years ago

xsplat,

Found it, already been there. So far it reads too much like a male version of cosmoplolitan or redbook (minus the foul wording) for my tastes.

xsplat
7 years ago

@ Frito: I love these kinds of real life stories. Keyboard theorizing about how the rules of engagement really work are useless without practical knowledge.

Yes, that’s a key point – mate guarding from a position of weakness amplifies the weakness.

Mate guarding from a position of strength can also amplify that strength.

Hobbes
Hobbes
7 years ago

@xsplat I think if she had been younger I would have been more willing to do so. My previous ex was 10 yrs younger and I taught her alot of things- but she was young and eager in that way young women are.. I was younger too, but I found it worth the effort. This recent one was a tragedy- one of the nicest and probably kindest hearted women I had ever met, but the wall was right on top of her and she was surrounded- as most ny women are- by the eternally single female friends who validated her… Read more »

xsplat
7 years ago

Also @Frito, if you really don’t care if she cheats, that doesn’t bode well for the emotional health of your remaining relationship, in my opinion. I understand the freedom that comes from having options. But when we get to the point where we really don’t even care about our relationships at all, that’s not ideal. Because it means you won’t be receiving the benefits that only come along with forming genuine caring bonds. And those bonds do leave us vulnerable. Even when I’m fucking and dating several girlfriends, when one of them leaves me, it hurts. No matter how replaceable… Read more »

xsplat
7 years ago

@Hobbes. Ya, I hear ya. The wall is a truly horrible thing. And women’s grouping together to fuck up their group lives is equally tragic.

redlight
redlight
7 years ago

@xsplat I wrote attacking the weakness of argument, and you reply with only personal attacks, which you have done elsewhere (such as “successfully dated” above). That is a weakness tell

xsplat
7 years ago

@redlight – is it a personal attack on you to be amazed that you can’t understand the dog analogy?

Ok, fine. It’s a personal attack.

You still can’t understand the analogy.

George
George
7 years ago

I’m done.

Too fucking stupid.

redlight
redlight
7 years ago

@xsplat you debate like a feminist

Frito Pandejo
Frito Pandejo
7 years ago

@xsplat… Let me parse a bit more then. Sure I’d care if she cheats and I’d be disappointed and hurt. I’d be sad, because we have had some good times. I’d be sad for the breakup of the family, kids, and all of that. But I would no longer be devastated. More importantly, given what I now know I wouldn’t take it personally because I now understand that women DON’T love unconditionally. They aren’t the true romantics. Their hypergamous nature prevents that. I’ve had to come to terms with the fact that she probably did cheat a few years ago… Read more »

Frito Pandejo
Frito Pandejo
7 years ago

@Hobbes: “I know many people in the manosphere say they deserve no compassion etc.. but I have to disagree. I love women, and the FI, while being in service to women, has turned about and bitten them right on the ass.”

Man isn’t that the truth… Had dinner last night at a bar and got talking to 2 fairly attractive single 29 year old women next to me. Their desperation was so palpable it was tragic. Dying to marry up and have kids but pursued the FI imperative instead. I really felt sorry for them.

Hobbes
Hobbes
7 years ago

@frito-“Her opinion of me no longer has any impact on my self worth.”
Isn’t that the ultimate alpha/beta tell? Nothing makes a man more beta than his self worth being dependent on a woman.
this is why I think a mans normal and natural inclination is towards alpha behavior. Self worth is a concept that is taught, not inherited. So men whos self worth are reliant on some external focus, such as a woman, is, by definition, taught to be that way.

Frito Pandejo
Frito Pandejo
7 years ago

@Hobbes… Bingo

Badpainter
7 years ago

Frito Pandejo – “Their desperation was so palpable it was tragic. Dying to marry up and have kids but pursued the FI imperative instead.” And if they really wanted too they could choose differently. Their desperation is made worse by the new openness of hypergamy. They no longer can sell the lie of monogamous commitment. While I don’t doubt they want marriage and children today I wonder if they would want it if they actually had it. I wonder if they could commit to those responsibilities. I wonder if they could be a part of compromise that demands any sacrifice… Read more »

xsplat
7 years ago

@Frito, thanks for the eloquent expounding of your situation. Sounds like you’ve gone through some tough times and extreme growth. It’s good to hear that you didn’t throw the baby out with the bathwater, and performed a calculated and important emotional retreat, rather than shutting down all emotions and all future possibilities of emotions. I do the same basic thing when I don’t have the hand that I need in a relationship to a woman I’m attached to – loosen the attachments by seeing other girls. I’m quite fond of attachments, but yes, they can also be problematic. I hate… Read more »

Hobbes
Hobbes
7 years ago

@badpainter- its a cart/horse type of situation. Just as boys today take in alot of misinformation as to what a man should be and what works with women, women also receive a hell of alot of negative influences and information. As such alot of age old wisdom has been abandoned and thrown out leaving people today literally confused. Just as men need to take a red pill to undo this conditioning, he has to first admit he has a problem, then he has to correctly identify the nature of the problem, but even that is not enough, he now has… Read more »

Hobbes
Hobbes
7 years ago

@xsplat “I hate to see whole crowds of people having a group he-man-woman-haters-club pity party of relationship fail though, and proclaim a hopeless situation and that the only solution is to only have fuck buddies, pump and dump or go MGTOW. I tend to think that deep down most people would prefer more of a longer term sensual and emotional connection to a doting woman. Of course such setups are fraught with difficulties and as far as I know are mostly temporary. But they sure seem like the best option to me.” Yes. As Saul Goodman once said “I concur”..… Read more »

Badpainter
7 years ago

Hobbes, The status quo sucks. Casualties on both sides. My only consideration can be my own life. Call me cynical but it seems many women bemoan not the choices they made, but rather the outcomes of their choices, as such my sympathy is reduced. Their plight is not my fault, not my responsibility, and not my problem. I get no joy from it, and don’t lose sleep over it. I am indifferent. I’ve had conversations similar to the one noted by Frito Pandejo. None of the women involved struck me as good candidates for marriage or motherhood. Nothing in their… Read more »

Badpainter
7 years ago

xsplat – “Of course such setups are fraught with difficulties and as far as I know are mostly temporary.”

And as such aren’t worth any great investment, or much concern beyond the merely amusing, and trivial. Ultimately it’s like a month to month contract/lease sort of fee/service schedule.

Frito Pandejo
Frito Pandejo
7 years ago

@Badpainter… Yes, and these two weren’t good candidates either. Completely self-involved. Showing me picture after picture of their selfies in some really extraordinary places (mountains, islands, etc.) but it was all about them. They were always the center of the frame with full on duck faces. Desperately trying to capitalize on their rapidly declining desirability as if they were still 20 years old. They wanted the accoutrements and baubles of marriage – the ring, the dress, the “big day”, the baby (as an accessory to show off on Facebook), but clearly weren’t concerned with the attendant responsibilities – monogamy, commitment,… Read more »

Hobbes
Hobbes
7 years ago

@badpainter- yes, I see your point and it’s been my experience as well. Which is I am not holding out for anything.
As a consolation prize we at least get a wide variety of pussy and thats one hell of a consolation prize. I’m reminded of what my mother once told me after I got dumped in high school- “men never lose, they just get to fuck someone else”
If this is the Game as the FI wants it, then we will adapt and make the best of it- men always have.

Glengarry
Glengarry
7 years ago

“Does she emasculate you in front of others by pointing out how wonderful, how successful or how attractive another man is?”

Fill in, “and he’s got such a beautiful wife too.”

Kyfho Myoba
Kyfho Myoba
7 years ago

I have little, if any experience in mate guarding, even when I was a married blue pill beta 25 years ago, and even less now, as I have been strictly spinning plates since ingesting TRP, but this discussion of mate guarding reminds me of a story I read a few months ago (but apparently has since been taken down) from a publicist for an NBA player whose team had recently won the championship. It was at a large venue (bowling alley?) that had been turned temporarily into a night club. The publicist (OP) notices that an attractive woman was following… Read more »

redlight
redlight
7 years ago

“at a large venue … if the husband … had grabbed his wife by the hair, twisted her arm behind her back and marched her out …”

you believe things would go well if he physically assaulted his wife in a public place? Last week a friend of mine was telling me how some guy tried something like that and was jumped by three other guys, and wait until the legal system does it to him next

Hobbes
Hobbes
7 years ago

@khyfo
Its a false choice. Simple solution is don’t marry whores. If you find yourself married to one now, get a divorce. Once in that position nothing is a “right choice”.. just a bunch of bad ones

dcllcd
7 years ago

@jf12

Thanks for responding.

I suppose I should of clarified. I understand the influence the FI has had on me.

I was confused about the Alpha aspect of mate guarding.

stuttie had an interesting response,

“If you’re the one grabbing her hand, kissing her, or putting your arm around her, then that is a form of mate guarding. If she is the one initiating the PDA then she perceives you as Alpha and of high value.”

I think I’m getting it now.

xsplat
7 years ago

@Kyfho, the situation had gone too far along. The man needs to show at a very early stage that he “just gets it”. He needs to let her know early on that he understands that all women can’t be trusted, and that he will never trust her completely, and that her actions will have consequences. Showing such disrespect for him in public means he didn’t do his ownership job properly at the important early stages. Maybe his years of constant errors could be fixed, but not completely on the spot. But ya, physically manhandling her, if he wanted to keep… Read more »

redlight
redlight
7 years ago

“physically manhandling her, if he wanted to keep her at that point, could be the best of all the poor options that remained to him”

criminal record, restraining order, pre-nup eliminated, no or limited access to his kids, she keeps the house and most assets, big support payments, potential damage to his career, but it is not important that his actions will have consequences? keep guarding your dog instead of letting your dog guard you

xsplat
7 years ago

@redlight, I believe you are sincere, and are possibly better informed than I, however I still can’t bring myself to believe what you say. It would seem to me that you are blowing up minor risks into major certainties.

None of that would be likely to happen. And if she did start to kick and scream and freak, then he could just let go and walk away – reading the situation on the spot.

sfcton
7 years ago

here you ho JF12, this will make some folks cranky… • Does she initiate sex or affection spontaneously? Yes all three, Girl#1 never fails to initiate sex the night before the other two come to visit. We are an over the top affectionate group though when I want their attention I command it… like get over here woman and take my hand or sit by Daddy etc. They take my arm, I don’t hold their hand, I grab them by the neck and direct them while we walk etc etc • Does she entertain a large pool of “male friend”… Read more »

jf12
jf12
7 years ago

@Badpainter re: And as such aren’t worth any great investment, or much concern beyond the merely amusing, and trivial. Ultimately it’s like a month to month contract”

Kind of like not bothering to cough up the dough to buy the Blu-ray hard copy, but spend less money on renting several more entertaining flicks.

jf12
jf12
7 years ago

@Ton, thanks. About what I thought, from you. re: “Nor do I worry about their orgasm or lack of orgasm.”

Uniformly, this is an alpha trait. Women pursue *uncaring* lovers, *selfish* lovers. It is how women are. Guys who have to brag about how good they are at getting their woman off, at servicing their woman, how well they understand their woman’s body, like me, are uniformly beta.

theasdgamer
7 years ago

@ khyfo What do you think, folks? What to do and why? Husband already lost the game because wife is slutty. If a slutty woman is around apex alphas, she will cheat. Mrs. Gamer makes sure that she is never around apex alphas. Mrs Gamer doesn’t do GNO, has no slutty friends, and there was no pre-cuckholding. When she is around lesser alphas, I’m always there, too. If she needs some mateguarding by me she will signal. I didn’t have to train her–she already knew what to do. She’s a unicorn–why would I have any other kind of woman? Yeah,… Read more »

theasdgamer
7 years ago

@ jf12

Mrs. Gamer asked me why I care about her orgasms. I told her that it’s because it gives me emotional satisfaction. My caring about her physical pleasure is in the context of my emotional pleasure.

stuttie
7 years ago

I was out last night with a new plate and found myself observing different forms of mate-guarding. New plate loves to dance whilst I do not so it was a good opportunity to observe not only my own reactions/feelings to guys attempting to dance/hit on her whilst on the dance floor (none), but also others in the venue. It then came to me. My context of mate-guarding as a 6’5″ 250 pound guy is probably totally different to the 5’7″ 165 pound guy. I’ve never felt the need to mate-guard in any shape or form – ever. Maybe the unspoken… Read more »

sfcton
7 years ago

JF12 its not so much that I don’t care don’t care but I understand for Girl#1 its a complex operation. I don’t believe in “love” as the word is commonly used today but the girls are dear to me and I have both authority and responsibility over their well being, Some nights I cannot count the number of times she gets off, other days it isn’t going to happen. That’s her issue not mine. She appreciates how I handle her difficulties vs men in her past. It’s a non issue with Girls#2 & 3. Girl#3 practically cums on command I… Read more »

M Simon
7 years ago

The red pill concept is based upon realizations and fears

Well no. It is about giving up fear. If you know how it works there is nothing to be afraid of. Cautious? Well yes. Just as you would be cautious with a firearm.

M Simon
7 years ago

I’m of the opinion that women never engage in a “make him jealous” strategy forthe purpose of trying to arouse or to keep a man’s interest.

I agree up to a point. It is more about getting control or a shit test. My response was always:

“Go ahead. Try him out. If you like him better go for it.” That usually put a stop to that. Self-confidence is very attractive.

Same response when she was mad at me and would say. “I’ll get another guy.” Me: “OK.” End of conversation and end of discontent.

M Simon
7 years ago

He needs to let her know early on that he understands that all women can’t be trusted, Women can be trusted. They can be trusted to be women. But if you are trusting that a dog will be a cat the odds do not favor you. Further – the more you show her that you have other options the more she can be trusted. In fact more women are like those sfcton describes than you would imagine. “I like seeing you with other women. It makes me hot for you.” A woman with that kind of attitude – if she… Read more »

theasdgamer
7 years ago

@ stuttie Dude, sufficient numbers can always beat size. Some dude wants to take little old me? I whistle up the bouncers and constabulary. Betas have their uses. I’m medium size, so if some large guy is hitting on Mrs. Gamer, I’m not gonna attack him. I might use intrigue, which is very effective. (e.g., tell the manager, “I saw him selling drugs in the head.”) In any case, Mrs. Gamer is committed and there has never been any issue regarding mateguarding except on the dance floor with a drunk. The drunk was careless about sending his partner out wildly,… Read more »

M Simon
7 years ago

What does a man that is NOT all or any of these do?

Find another woman – on the spot – and starts getting friendly with her. That causes the wife to mate guard. If she is interested.

M Simon
7 years ago

theasdgamer November 16th, 2014 at 7:36 am My usual was to not be there when the sh*t came down. Never had to resort to violence. I could read the signals well enough in advance – sometimes days – to avoid it. The first mate says it is one of the things she really likes about me. I am her protector and do it seemingly without effort. Sometimes all it takes is positioning. A step to the left can be enough. Moving over six inches on a bench. Most of these “boys” if you just show a willingness to confront them… Read more »

M Simon
7 years ago

Because it means you won’t be receiving the benefits that only come along with forming genuine caring bonds.

Ha. Ha. Too funny. esp. genuine. They are genuine all right. When she feels she has to compete with other women. You must continually remind her by word and deed. Even better if she reminds herself.

“I like seeing you with other women. It makes me hot for you.”

sfcton
7 years ago

I was surprised at the number of women willing to share a man in such an open manner. Now that I am more active in conversations with higher tier men, most seem to have some personal story of a woman willing to share his affection. How many? Probably many more then we realize

trust and women is a weird topic…

sfcton
7 years ago

Reblogged this on sfcton's Blog and commented: If you are into the Red Pill, Rollo at Rational Male is a must read. Right now, what I am impressed with is his list of female behavior toward a man to help men determine if she views you as Beta or not. I….. tend to dominate conversations ifin I am interested so I wanted to list my response to his check list here. My replies are in bold…. I could very easily compile a list of behaviors that are simply the reverse of the Alpha Tells I noted in the previous post,… Read more »

M Simon
7 years ago

walawala
November 12th, 2014 at 10:07 am

Major beta tell: buying gifts in the hopes of “winning” a girl’s love.

Funny enough I did that with my first GF and she told me in no uncertain terms that it was a big no no and very unattractive. And it was in ’62 mind you when all this stuff was relatively unknown.

Sundance
Sundance
7 years ago

Rollo, How do you explain the near *ubiquitous* mate guarding by our ancestral Alpha males? Can you think of any Alpha males who did not unleash harsh retribution to any would be male interlopers? Historically human females have been both hoarded and guarded vigorously. Additionally, in the animal kingdom a prominent feature of Alpha behavior is the guarding of his female harem. I understand the futility of it in today’s society, but it’s such a common feature of our most successful ancestors that I can’t see how one can call in a ‘Beta Tell’. What, were all histories Kings and… Read more »

enrique432
enrique432
7 years ago

Great stuff, as always. My father was an Alpha who, through decades became a Beta and truth is, as a 70-something year old man, my brother and I have noted, he is a SHELL of a man he once was. Our mom is a complete psycho that somehow took the reigns of the marriage. Sadly, she will bury him and go on to live for another decade probably.

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[…] instinct of them all, might also explore other ways to live his life.  This creates a nation of betas (no Hindi pun intended) who are cockblocked by their own […]

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
6 years ago

Does she initiate sex or affection spontaneously? Does she entertain a large pool of “male friend” orbiters with the expectation of you being ‘mature enough’ to accept it? Does she keep a core peer group of ‘girlfriends’ she insists on prioritizing over being with you? Frequent GNOs? Has she explained to you how she was so different in college and how she’s glad those days are behind her now? Is she experiencing her Epiphany Phase? Does she cite “mismatched libidos” as a reason for her lack of sexual interest in you now that you’re married or living together (even after… Read more »

trackback
6 years ago

[…] went into some of the subtle ‘tells’ about a man’s SMV in Alpha Tells and Beta Tells and the subcommunication messaging that transfers between men and women. In these posts I described […]

trackback
6 years ago

[…] proceptive (she wants to fuck more) with you at times you may think odd. These are Alpha or Beta Tells. A woman’s preoccupation with guarding you from other women is a prime indicator of your SMV […]

trackback
6 years ago

What are the things a man should not do after getting married?

Thank you. I would clarify that Alpha, Beta are mindsets (and thus changeable) and a man can go from one end to other. Also, a simple silent test can tell whether your wife sees you as Alpha (hot genuine desire) or Beta (negotiated motions in exchange…

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[…] Full stop. Whenever a man even casually mentions a woman as ‘the ONE‘ you know he’s still clinging to his Blue Pill, feminine-primary conditioning. This is your first signal of a man’s mindset and is a glaring Beta Tell. […]

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[…] Full stop. Whenever a man even casually mentions a woman as ‘the ONE‘ you know he’s still clinging to his Blue Pill, feminine-primary conditioning. This is your first signal of a man’s mindset and is a glaring Beta Tell. […]

Omega Man
Omega Man
5 years ago

i’ve recently read that women in LTR’s on-average initiate sex at an average of one (1) time per year… that’s right, ONE.SINGLE.TIME.

it had nothing to do with whether or not their guy was alpha and she has a natural WANT to please him. it was more about her FEAR of getting rejected for sex (for whatever reason her imagination conjured up).

in other words, self-esteem, self-confidence, and the fear of rejection (ego hit bc men just can’t say ‘no’ to pussy) play into the sex initiation equation.

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[…] foto, Rollo Tomassi’nin Beta Tells (beta alametleri) yazısından. Erkek kadına doğrı eğilmiş ve kadın ondan demir korkuluğun […]

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[…] foto, Rollo Tomassi’nin Beta Tells (beta alametleri) yazısından. Erkek kadına doğrı eğilmiş ve kadın ondan demir korkuluğun […]

majaxx1
majaxx1
3 years ago

How exactly is this “Does she initiate sex or affection spontaneously?” a beta tell? I always thought if shes’s too hot for you she will initiate more often than not

Dave
Dave
3 years ago

Is there anyway to go from Beta to Alpha in a Ltd or should I walk away at this point

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