Malice and Forethought

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After the engaging conversation in this week’s comment thread, there’s something I’ve been contemplating and I think it might make for a good weekend discussion.

With regard to this new comfort women have with open Hypergamy now, proudly laying bare their Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks sexual strategy, to the degree that advertising agencies are making blatant commercials about it, I’m starting to think that women hold (or are progressively developing) a subconscious level resentment for those men who would willingly accept her intimately in spite of that foreknowledge.

I realize this reads like a “well, duh Rollo” moment, and I get that a deductive, lesser respect for a Beta man impulse resides in women, but what I’m considering here is this lesser respect in a new, open Hypergamy social context. Whereas before a Beta man might be excused for his ignorance of women’s sexual pluralism (AF/BB) due to women’s secrecy or marginalizing it, now women discover that the Beta men they need to consolidate on in the long term are such hopeless romantics and so sexually optionless that they’ll willfully ignore that open Hypergamy and accept them intimately in spite of it.

It’s an interesting conflict; on one hand the urgency of consolidating on a long term prospect leads her to the Epiphany Phase rationalizations for wanting to do things ‘the right way’ with the Beta provider, but on the other hand, there’s the fact that he accepts his pro-active cuckolding with full knowledge of not just her own prior Alpha ‘indiscretions’, but open Hypergamy on whole.

She needs the guy for provisioning and parental investment impulses, but now the buffer of convincing herself that this Nice guy is simply naive to how Hypergamy functions is gone, thus leaving her more resentful that the type of man she at least figuratively would spend her life with is this pathetic.

Commenter, salemsuwareh had an excellent observation from the last post  that I didn’t want to be lost in the pile:

 I just went to HUS’s article and the explanations given by the women and white knights there actually impressed me because they conveniently demonstrate so many things:

– The most important point is that the whole scenario is defined by the feminine imperative, this point really overrides and defines all others. It’s a form of thought control. If you define what was, what is and what could be according to your imperative then you can make yourself look right. It’s like a way more sophisticated version of 1984’s thought control.

– Women keep chiming in with their stories of how they too enjoy more attention from the other sex now that they’ve fixed some aspect of themselves (and they’ll try to clutch at Stephan doing the same thing to support their argument). What they don’t mention is the difference in SMV between men and women. Women START OUT being arousing to men and go downhill from there. A woman who made herself look better would’ve had at least as much attention when she was younger if she weren’t ugly then.

– Stephan describes himself as not having changed but the women say that is what he has. They are literally conjuring up the idea that Stephan is now more alpha out of thin air.

– They accuse men of doing the same thing women are doing if they can’t make a point or they accuse men of starting it. For example they say MEN who perpetuate the “beta bux” myth. In the next sentence, Susan says that only one of beta bux or post-wall women overestimating their SMV can be true, which coming from her can only be a case of willing, studied ignorance. She’s trying to take pieces out of Rollo’s words and put them against each other but she’s changing the context that the words were made for in the first place, for example – her comparison is false because post-wall women are DEFINED BY (other than visible outer signs ie. fading looks) a realisation that their SMV is under fire, that doesn’t put that in opposition to beta bux, it supports it. By now I’m thinking women have a natural talent for projection and rationalization.

– Men who fear being single like women do are beta men. They are so because a man with options by definition cannot fear being single, since he has options. If you’ve never had any success with women and you’re a plugged-in blue pill, of course you will fear being single! the leaps and haphazard logic she’s making here are just astounding, and that’s before I even begin talking about what she’s implying by saying/implying that men and women have the same problems.

– Susan is selecting the cases that support her point. The two ugly ducklings who find each other at age 28 and live happily ever after.

– Susan talks as if women have no idea what they’re doing with men. If epiphany-phase women are giving signs of being hooked on you, they must genuinely want to fuck you! because women are warm, fuzzy creatures and would never do something like try to push someone’s buttons to get what they want.

– It’s made out like Stephan can turn into a winner if he takes one of these leftover women, or rather that he already IS one because they want him now. They’re trying to prop up his ego to get him to go along with their imperative. Don’t worry Stephan, these girls finally understand that the person they really felt their tingles for was you all along! they were just confused by biker-Rob with the skull tattoo, but I’m all yours now baby.

Overall It’s pretty cool to see the three female weapons as I see them – the anointed trinity of Female Imperative, Rationalization and Projection – in action. They do it so well that you wouldn’t see it for what it is unless you’re familiar with something like Rollo’s blog, which is what’s going on with most men. Unfortunately for these women we have a failsafe, which is to observe what choices women make instead of listening to why they themselves say they make them (assuming she’s a rare woman who holds herself accountable for her own choices, that is).

The problem with convincing Stephan he’s on the right path (of Beta assimilation) is that this feminine-primary advice mistakenly presumes an old order, closed-Hypergamy social paradigm. The ladies at HUS presume Stephan is ignorant of this new-order open Hypergamy (or just initially questioning it), and as with women of their age, they cling to the idea that they can put the Hypergamy genie back in the bottle, reapply his Beta blinders, and thus re-prepare him for a 27-30 year old woman necessitous of his provisioning potential.

This is where their resentment stems from. Any man with the visceral knowledge of women’s dualistic sexual strategy who would still pardon their own participation in it is a man even less respectable than the forgivable Beta without that foreknowledge.

He’s a guy who Just Gets It, yet is so pathetically optionless he willingly chooses to participate in it, since to him the prospect of being manipulated is preferable to the threat of perpetual loneliness; which is the very same threat these women level at him in their advice.

The ‘better’ Beta they think can be built isn’t ego-satisfyingly believable if he’s already aware of and participates in the schadenfreude they have for him.

186 comments

  1. I am observing a new phenomenon of young guys being accepting of their girlfriends shagging other guys. Some of them are wealthy Betas who simply state that they can equally attract women and it is some kind of open relationship. With other young guys they are usually good-looking slackers, who let their girlfriends do porn or fuck the occasional sugar-daddy. The girl gets the emotional support from her boyfriend while indulging in Alpha fucking.

    I don’t know whether the feminine imperative is starting to succeed at breeding willing Beta cuckold-men who are seemingly “getting aroused” by their girlfriends sport-fucking the various Alphas.

  2. Ooh. Maybe related, maybe not, Mayo took pictures of Molly in her underwear in order to convince the guys that she was worth ogling.

  3. I remember that at 20 +- a girl told me “well, girls might not like you now, but when the time comes that they want a RELATIONSHIP….”…..

    Serial pedestalizer that I was, I remember answering “And why would I want those disposed of cumrags then?”

    “Abgelegte Fickfetzen” in German.

    I cannot… I really am at a loss…. I mean I was fucking pathethic, yes, but even then I knew that this was a rotten deal.

    I did not even have to think about it, that was a sheer gut reaction.

    Those men openly embracing this are broken like Dacian catamites.

  4. Anymore I drop bombs on hamster conversations of female behavior, such as, “So, she’s 33, got kids by three different guys, lives with her parents and you’re listening to her advice?” I shake my head, laugh and walk away….The reaction is often priceless, even White knights catch themselves shaking their heads in agreement until they catch a dirty look from one of the women…But the seed has been planted…..

  5. Perhaps this is similar to the concept of a cuckold. (temporal cuckold?)

    The hamster addled pre-wall woman who was hot just a few years prior now settles. But the Beta that provides the Beta Bux must “know” about the her pre epiphany options… So therefore a good Beta Bux husbank who cheerfully accepts that he will always be a cuck to her 5 min of alpha is looked down on.

    So once again this is a manifestation of female duplicity. These harlots _know_ that the stephens should dump them for younger and hotter with less mileage.

    It may be a bit of hamster guilt… A guy SHOULD find a girl who he does not have to compete with her 5 min alpha past. BUT, the Fem Imperative gals at HUS NEED to have the Stephens all accept their Cuckolding..

    Otherwise the “having it all” myth explodes. These girls really really should have found mates during their max years of hotness… but they didn’t. Now they need suckers to take the used goods.

  6. I got a text from my friend, not too long ago, that (I just realized) was an example of Open Hypergamy.

    Shared it in this post http://dcllive.wordpress.com/2014/09/18/the-tasmanian-devil-effect/

    “K says your stock with females has risen, you are now at nine special needs clients as compared to….Line cook.”

    I have made self-improvement a priority within the last year. If I had known that’s all it took (plus some game), I would of started a long time ago.

    Don’t become a better built beta. Become a self made man.

    (NOTE – Rollo, I hope you don’t mind the recent linking to my posts, I thought maybe some guys would find them helpful or at entertaining)

  7. A man’s choices are to either “alpha up” and spin plates, pay escorts for GF experiences, or search out a non-Westernized woman with ongoing (not born again) traditional values, who understands the duties of wives and husbands, such as fidelity, respect, actual commitment, etc. The latter women are rare when young and non-existent when old. With the ubiquity of the internet, this will only get worse. Most men will fail – repeatedly.

    Failure means locked into a marriage where children and financials dictate behavior, where sex is an IV drip at best, and where everything can be wisked away at a wife’s whim.

  8. Great post Rollo. So depressing yet enlightening at the same time. A married man wishing to avoid divorce rape must sometimes appear to accept this open hypergamy, which may in fact dig him a deeper hole. However after fully digesting the red pill it becomes clear that the married man’s plight is simply one of cutting the emotional cord to his wife and figuring out how to extract what ever value he can from the transaction. Married men who have their “red pill epiphany” after their marriage are in a unique situation. Divorce becomes an emotional reaction to their wives’ hypergamous behavior when in fact the better choice is to awaken to the reality that married men can have their cake and eat it too…concurrently as their wives’ SMV continues its accelerated depreciation.

  9. @Rollo have you been following this “controversy” over Julien from RSD being harassed by white knights and feminists for her seminars. The level of violence by the so-called anti-violence protesters is ironic. In the news story you’ll also note that one of the feminist protesters picketing Julien’s game seminar in Australia hits one of the guys attending or challenging her. That is not challenged, but a bunch of guys attending a seminar is seen as “hateful” towards women. This whole episode is exactly what we discuss here: the shaming of men by feminists for being masculine. Check out the photo of the women…says it all. http://www.dailylife.com.au/news-and-views/news-features/takedownjulienblanc-julien-blanc-leaves-australia-with-his-tail-between-his-legs-20141107-3juiy.html?rand=1415338051106&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=nc&eid=socialn:fac-14omn0102-optim-nnn:nonpaid-25/06/2014-social_traffic-all-organicpost-nnn-dailylife-o&campaign_code=nocode&promote_channel=social_facebook

  10. Open hypergamy might be the last straw.

    If this is the new reality I see no way anyone can claim women are capable of love either by blue or red pill understanding.

    Betas are an absolute necessity to fulfill the epiphany phase, the only reason Betas go along is the lie that they are, if they do things right, the last man in her life. Really they are just the next host for a parasite. The odds that from time to time the parasite is symbiotic aren’t great enough to allow a Beta’s suspension of disbelief to overcome “moments of clarity.”

  11. One thing I’d recommend (as a former extreme blue pill beta), is to abandon where possible the folks who used to know you. I don’t mean going overseas, necessarily, but find a new social scene. ‘Cuz once a chick sees you as beta, that’s all you’ll ever be to her, and she will treat your poorly right off the bat. If you think you can change her opinion of you, or that she’s worth correcting her error, you’re still blue pill.

    In my own life, my alpha skill is karaoke, Normally that’s a #5 skill (after ballroom/swing/salsa dancing in some order, with guitar #1, unless you’re really, really good at it). Anyway, this one bar I go to, it’s a barn with live music and a couple hundred customers that does karaoke on Thursday, right next to a liberal arts college with the student body 2/3rds female, half the males gay/incel.

    Since the place is so huge, often people are talking to themselves or watching sports, last night, I absolutely killed it on Pearl Jam’s Black, (I was lamenting an NSA/FWB thing I had with a civil engineer in another town, who has now gone on to the next phase of her life.) Point is, everybody stopped talking and watched the lunatic on stage pouring his soul out,

    I was kinda laughing inside, she was fun, but I knew she’d do exactly what she did, and we just got together every now and again to smoke weed and watch cartoons. But I first picked her up doing Stone Temple Pilots at another bar where I learned karaoke.

    Point of all this, the first bar, I was the beta/plan B (have high income, especially for FL) in everyone’s eyes, even when suddenly I wasn’t that person anymore. It got awkward, and yes I was angry at them, to the point I don’t go there anymore.

    New bar, I’m just an awesome dude who insists any girl he takes home be over 5’4″ because standards, dammit.

    /Off to another karaoke bar. Good luck!

  12. I don’t know whether the feminine imperative is starting to succeed at breeding willing Beta cuckold-men who are seemingly “getting aroused” by their girlfriends sport-fucking the various Alphas.

    This is the norm now. As the female imperative grows stronger so does the R selection environment. Men have no choice but to adapt just to stay in the breeding game. Being aroused by his girlfriend getting screwed by other guys seems to be an outgrowth of that environment. An evolutionary adaptation on the extreme end of the spectrum. It really indicates the pair bonding relationship is severely damaged.

  13. This brings something to mind that makes me a little embarrassed to admit.. but in the sake of science…
    When I first became RP aware, I was still on the fence and started dating a woman in her mid 30s. My habits were (and still kind of are, damn it) to behave in a BP manner. Even though, at the time I was RP aware I chose to ignore it all – or at least the parts that were difficult to swallow in the hope that RP was wrong, or that she was different. Anyway, at one point- I forget what had happened- I almost felt like she was trying to push me into alpha behavior. It’s like she really was attracted to me, and wanted me to be the alpha she saw in me.
    After that relationship ended I looked back on my past and I had the idea that more than a few women had done exactly that. This kind of push, a desire, for you to “get it”.
    To this day it happens to me sometimes when I slip in BP behavior. I get a quizzical look from women, as if they expected me to be alpha and were confused by my sudden beta “tell”. It may be particular to me, I don’t know. I do know many people- guys included- have always seen me as a guy who must have it easy with the ladies. I wonder, sometimes, if maybe my natural state was alpha but I had been so conditioned that the beta just became ingrained to the point were others see the alpha and I still struggle with my self perception as a beta.
    anyway, I digress..
    I wonder if women are resentful of their betas because they wish those betas would “alpha up”.They know they need provisioning and for the guy to be her beta, but almost wish the guy would be more alpha so she can have her fantasy of the perfect beta/alpha BF. Of course, the fact that she has necessarily put him in a position where being both is impossible escapes her, or is basically ignored and rationalized the way women do to anything they don’t like.
    It’s the old arabic saying “women want hot ice”

  14. @zelcorpiion and Bango Tango
    Yup. I’ve been noticing the same thing.. Guys actively enjoying their wives and gfs cuckoldery and even fantasizing about it.
    A real good friend of mine recently admitted that he watches gang bang videos all the time because its what turns him on- a woman slathered in cock and cum. I wonder if cuckold porn and GB videos are becoming more popular, and In wonder if porn- the act of watching other men fuck women you desire- is having a psychological effect on men.
    It’s absolutely crazy.

  15. A man’s choices are to either “alpha up” and spin plates, pay escorts for GF experiences, or search out a non-Westernized woman with ongoing (not born again) traditional values, who understands the duties of wives and husbands, such as fidelity, respect, actual commitment, etc. The latter women are rare when young and non-existent when old. With the ubiquity of the internet, this will only get worse. Most men will fail – repeatedly.

    Agreed. The alpha up and spin plates will be almost impossible for a great many men. The government assisted female imperative is making sure that prostitutes are not an option or extremely dangerous or expensive to engage in. The feds shut down Redbook recently and used that database to conduct at least 40 raids on brothels throughout the SF Bay Area. I believe that some strip clubs in Vegas now offer the “VIP room” sometimes at $500-800 dollars (no sex) and men willingly pay that! I’m sure Rollo can confirm that. The girls overseas can still be loyal but you better have some serious coin. Be ready to jump through all the visa/immigration hoops, deal with language barrier issues and taking care of or paying off the girls family. The whole situation just sucks.

  16. @hobbes

    “I almost felt like she was trying to push me into alpha behavior. It’s like she really was attracted to me, and wanted me to be the alpha she saw in me.
    After that relationship ended I looked back on my past and I had the idea that more than a few women had done exactly that. This kind of push, a desire, for you to “get it”.”

    No, I know that feeling.

    I also know what the look on their faces was: Dissapointment.

  17. To this day it happens to me sometimes when I slip in BP behavior. I get a quizzical look from women, as if they expected me to be alpha and were confused by my sudden beta “tell”. It may be particular to me, I don’t know. I do know many people- guys included- have always seen me as a guy who must have it easy with the ladies. I wonder, sometimes, if maybe my natural state was alpha but I had been so conditioned that the beta just became ingrained to the point were others see the alpha and I still struggle with my self perception as a beta.

    @Hobbes. You were not conditioned. The Beta is the natural state of all men when they actually like a woman, you can’t help yourself and you DLV which of course women are turned off by. Alpha is the state when you do not care about a woman and you DHV naturally which they are attracted to. The whole concept of “maintaining your alpha frame” is trying to balance these two issues. How to care about a woman and DHV at the same time without slipping. It’s a big problem.

  18. “Most men will fail – repeatedly”

    All blue pill men will fail – repeatedly. Most red pill men will succeed – repeatedly.

  19. @Bango Tango
    Great comment. Thanks for that.
    But I think alpha and liking women arent all that disconnected. I think. lol. Yeah, its a problem

  20. “yeah, thats the look. lol.. I’m getting better, but habits are hard to break.”

    I can now switch modes on a dime. When I switch to beta/mgtow/monk/whatever mode, not only does my wife get pissed, but my mom, my sister, my daughters, my female bosses, my female co-workers, the women at the coffee shop etc

    Speaking of cuckold, ever been running as an alpha and some guy pitches you his wife? Now that’s some fucked up.

  21. re: pushing you into alpha.

    After the constant shit testing, the second biggest clue that women *want* their loving men to cease acting so loving is that women themselves admit that they cannot understand why so many men refuse to be jerks.

    You cannot be too cocky towards women; there is no limit to its effectiveness.
    You cannot be too mean towards women; there is no limit to its effectiveness.

    re: “Alpha is the state when you do not care about a woman”

    The absolute fact that every woman tries *hard* to make the man that cares for her to *cease* caring for her, is the saddest and most broken thing in all the world. I guess its a good thing that women usually fail to make their men into monsters.

  22. “The absolute fact that every woman tries *hard* to make the man that cares for her to *cease* caring for her, is the saddest and most broken thing in all the world. I guess its a good thing that women usually fail to make their men into monsters.”

    Give them enough time and they just might succeed.

  23. @jf12

    “why so many men refuse to be jerks.”

    After reading your comment that that quote above is from (great by the way), I came to realize what one of my hurdles was: becoming selfish

    I use to think being selfish was terrible.

    I think that’s why ‘nice guys’ can’t even imagine the thought of being mean or a jerk to women.

    Being a reformed ‘nice guy’ I can say that once you start becoming selfish it no longer feels like a bad thing.

    It seems almost like normal behavior for me now. It’s not being a jerk or selfish. To me, It’s being a man with direction who knows what he wants, in every situation. At least that’s how I interpret the whole “men refusing to be jerks”.

    “there is no limit to its effectiveness.” your so right.

  24. What price a jerk? Most men naturally admire their more idealistic selves. Pro-social tendencies are hard-wired: They are reinforced throughout the years.
    Asking an average man to be a jerk is not much different than asking Jimi Hendrix to smash his guitar.

    Anyways,
    Most Blue-Pill men operate from a scarcity mentality. You know that, I know that, we all know that. Starving men aren’t ideologues, they are starving. They’ll accept whatever stupid thing you’ll tell them, if you can just end the pain.
    The second part is that most men operate in a comfort zone, same as most women. They do not do the hard work of creating new social circles, that would expose them to new women, and they do not do the hard work of seducing those women.

    I’m not sure where the limit comes in. I see Blue Pill men entering relationships very concerned about his woman’s sexual past. Not all, but most. This is me, this is my Best Man, this is the rest of my Groomsmen. Clearly there is a limit, but I’m not sure where it is. A decade or more of programming has not been able to erase the slut-angst from these men’s minds.

    I guess the limit is that these men simply won’t view their girlfriends as marriageable prospects, and will continue in a “LTR” for years through the epiphany phase. Then they are confident enough and secure enough to approach new women.

    Good riddance.

  25. What is the limit of stupidity? Remaining beta after having the truth shown to you and the lies clearly exposed for what they are by Rollo and others is absolute insanity or you have the sense of a retarted cock roach that has been stepped on.

  26. Most men ARE retarded cockroaches that been stepped on, repeatedly. That’s what they are conditioned to be. You can’t undo years of genetic and social programming just because you read something on a blog.

  27. @bango tango

    “The Beta is the natural state of all men when they actually like a woman, you can’t help yourself ”

    You are horribly mistaken. The “state” you speak of is not natural. Males who are naturally involved with sex at normal ages from a biological perspective do not have this problem nearly as much. Your “state” is really an unnatural psychosis resulting from extreme frustration and yearning for sexual intimacy caused by deprivation. The biological drive is very strong and unrelenting. When stifled and distorted by lies and culturally imposed imperatives this drive will manifest itself in less than desirable way as we are experiencing.

  28. “You can’t undo years of genetic and social programming”

    It’s not genetic

    Baby boys are different:

    http://www.parenting.com/article/real-difference-between-boys-and-girls

    At age 12 all the boys wanted to build tree forts, explore, hunt for stuff, fight, play sports, compete.

    Then the testosterone kicked in.

    You can undo years social programming by reading a blog, doing some stuff, and seeing how it turns out. It’s a positive feedback loop. Men’s natural state is not slave to women. Read history.

  29. George reaches far out and grasps something important. “Your “state” is really an unnatural psychosis resulting from extreme frustration and yearning for sexual intimacy caused by deprivation.”

    It is true that if betas had been desired by women since puberty, like alphas are, then nobody would ever do anything else but sex, and we would all die happy.

  30. @redlight re: “doing some stuff, and seeing how it turns out. It’s a positive feedback loop. Men’s natural state is not slave to women.”

    True. A slumped state seems more “natural” to someone who has been slumped for years, and standing up straight and tall seems “unnatural”. But if he worked at his posture for a while his views will change because his musculature will change.

  31. As a beta (and believe me I can be alpha, but unsustainedly because it’s an effort and I don’t like how it makes me feel), I cannot untangle what is my natural inclination to try to please women and appease women, and what is my social conditioning. I am currently (but not permanently) leaning to the hypothesis that alphas are nurtured not natured.

    Hear me out. I do not believe women have magical pickers/gene sensors. But what women are extremely keenly attuned to is how other women treat a male, AND how other women have been treating that male in his life.

    Yes, it’s true that mothers treat the cutest baby boy best, coddling him, giving him the best food, fighting his battles for him, etc., and then he grows up to be alpha, but my hypothesis is that if mothers treated any boy the way they would have treated an alpha, then he would grow up to be much more alpha than he would have.

  32. You are horribly mistaken. The “state” you speak of is not natural. Males who are naturally involved with sex at normal ages from a biological perspective do not have this problem nearly as much. Your “state” is really an unnatural psychosis resulting from extreme frustration and yearning for sexual intimacy caused by deprivation. The biological drive is very strong and unrelenting. When stifled and distorted by lies and culturally imposed imperatives this drive will manifest itself in less than desirable way as we are experiencing. stifled and distorted by lies and culturally imposed imperatives this drive will manifest itself in less than desirable way as we are experiencing.

    @George. No I’m afraid you are. Culture is a direct result of biology for one thing. It IS biology. Males have always been Beta when they feel emotional attraction for women, not because they are “deprived by lies” but deprived by nature. Men are programmed that way biologically because they had to be in order for the species to survive. Women need and have always needed the resources of men, much more so in the past. From an evolutionary view women would have no way to manipulate men into providing and caring for her kids after sex if this were not the case. Men would have to feel strong emotions that would lead to putting women before them and on a pedestal, aka to DLV, even up to sacrificing their own lives for women. Sorry dude you can’t escape evolution. You have not been brainwashed by the Illumanati to feel emotional attachment and act Beta around those women. That is your natural state.

  33. From the latest at How Unsexy Smart nerds are, we have this admission about a nice sweet kind funny gentleman “while he’s the kind of guy I SHOULD date, I don’t feel the sort of attraction and chemistry for him that I’ve felt with other guys” and “Can a woman encourage or bring out the ballsy, confident side”.

    She is wondering how she can get him to be cockier and meaner toward her. I’m sure we can help with more realistic suggestions.

    1. Grab him hard, like you WOULD if you were attracted to him.

  34. The women over there, in every article, ooze entitlement to white knighting by betas. AWALT. Even the tiny pats on the back that Stephen gets are merely pushing him to manning up and rescuing the sluts from their lifestyle choices.

  35. re: “Sorry dude you can’t escape evolution.”

    It is true, I firmly believe, that evopsych wonderfully explains men’s romanticism and women’s narcissism. But while tendencies are ingrained, the ability to correct tendencies also exists. The fact that your car pulls to the right doesn’t mean you have to always drive in a right hand curve all the time, you merely have to work harder to go where you need to go.

  36. You can undo years social programming by reading a blog, doing some stuff, and seeing how it turns out. It’s a positive feedback loop. Men’s natural state is not slave to women. Read history.

    Um…when you read history it is clear that man’s natural state is this. Women as a group pass on the dna of the species more the men as a group do (80/40). Civilization was basically built for women by men from a biological perspective. That doesn’t mean there is not the possibility for it to change, who knows what evolution has in store, but in order for that to happen men need to embrace the red pill as a collective and not fool themselves about the power of the female imperative and the power that women have over men.

  37. @Bango Tango
    >The girls overseas can still be loyal but you better have some serious coin.

    Its a manosphere myth that there are lands overseas where the grass is greener and women with attitudes that harken back to some traditional golden age can be found.

    Rather than typing up my own big-ass response, I’m posting a link to something by a guy who’s been there, done that, and, for me, sums up what the reality, not the myth, is really like.

    But before that, let me say you should not, no- make that Never, blow serious coin on foreign women any more than you should on American women.

    Just don’t do it. I causes bad results with the foreign chicks just as much as it does with domestic ones. Field-tested.

    http://marriedmansexlife.vanillaforums.com/discussion/10840/the-myths-of-foreign-wives/p1

    http://marriedmansexlife.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/349532/#Comment_349532

  38. For some reason this part of the Disney canon was deemed politically incorrect and buried in the memory hole. See if you can articulate why.

  39. I honest think this is trying to get open acceptance of polyandry and cuckolding.

    Many men have accepted preemptive cuckolding. The woman has prior partners has been accepted, women having a kid prior to the marriage is getting accepted more, the next step is getting men to accept her having other lovers and raising another man’s child in marriage.

    That is the ultimate alpha fux/beta bux end game for a woman. Provisioning from a dutiful male slave and fun with the alpha at the same time.

  40. Let me repeat my position to someone. Although I will staunchly defend the truth that violence “works”, because of how women are, I am not advocating violence against women. To accuse me otherwise makes you guilty of the is-ought fallacy.

    In fact, my *constant* harping is that women OUGHT to act better in response to being treated nicer.

  41. 100 years ago, men were the head of the household, was married to a low count woman (often a virgin at marriage), his wife took his name, and laws were biased towards him. Feminists have done a terrific job of documenting this. There is no way that the average man felt he had less power in the relationship, since he didn’t have less power. His natural state was not subservient to his wife. Yes he was emotional attached to her, and hoped she didn’t die in giving birth to his children.

    Compare all this to today, and see how current social programming can warp your view of natural state.

  42. “Civilization was basically built for women by men” currently gets no search results in google, even taking out “basically”. However the one thing that does get a hit “”Civilization was built by men for women” is ” If civilization was built by men ‘for women’ then why is it just so awful being a women”. Take out the double quotes and you can read lots of Camille Paglia, which will help you take these social blinders off.

  43. Funny albeit undetailed anecdote about Paglia: my (first) wife was enraged and sulked for days after, when Paglia was more interested in me than her.

  44. @Beta Guy,

    What price a jerk? Most men naturally admire their more idealistic selves.

    Is being a Jerk and being idealistic mutually exclusive? Think of George S. Patton.

    “Jerk” is a terminology invented by the Feminine Imperative. Actually I think being self-concerned or putting yourself as your mental point of origin is critical to a man’s idealism if he’s truly passionate about his idealism.

    Pandering to feminine-primacy isn’t idealism.

  45. women hate beta’s; they hate patriarchy because it forced them to fuck betas and they grow to hate the beta provider after they switch lanes. Seems reasonable they think less of today’s beta provider as the AF/BB plan is in the open and yet men sign up for life long commitment to another man’s leaving

  46. re: idealistic Jerk. One way is altruistic narcissism, in the literal sense. e.g. make yourself so blindingly brilliantly great that others around you cannot avoid becoming illuminated too.

  47. Let me see if I get this straight. The leaders of the mansphere are:

    Roosh V who practices sex turism and had his youtube channel banned and will probably lose whatever means of income is.

    Roissy, who was ousted by a feminist blogger. He lost his job back then, I don’t know what he’s been up to lately, probably saying that every problem is the fault of the jews.

    Deti, a 50-something obese black man who claims to be an expert on the African-American community.

    YaReally, an old obese guy who thinks he’s all that because he’s sleeping(paying) young Asian women to put up with him.

    And Rollo. The manager of a casino.

    Shit and here I was thinking that Richard The Lionheart and the men who were like him were the true Alphas of Mankind, but the pussy-addicts say otherwise. The man who has the most women even if he’s a junkie who uses drugs – sorry, I mean game – is the real Alpha we should all be looking up for.

    Why hasn’t anyone told me this? Here am I admiring doctors and engineers and the great men who built the western civilization and the oldpshere(majority of the mansphere are middle-aged men who instead of buying a ferrari during their middle-age now want to sleep with attractive 20 year old women, lmao)

    Ok, Grandpas, here’s the deal.

    There is no such thing as Alpha and Betas and beta bucks and Alpha bux.

    The women you guys want? You women? The majority of them is more educated and makes more money than the majority of the young men. Most young men don’t go to college. Most young men don’t earn much and will never earn much. There’s also the fact that the majority of the men look like shit because you are too lazy to not eat another burger king and you people seem to forget that water is not only there to swallow down with your food, water is used by human beings to shower themselves with.

    I know, hard fucking concept.

    i am aware that you want to return to your bitch festival of ”OMG I’M OLD AND I’M UGLY AND OBESE AND I WANT HOT YOUNG WOMEN BUT THEY DON’T WANT ME. HYPERGAMY!!!”

    So I’ll let you return to it. Thankfully most of you will be dead 10 or 20 years from now, and this nonsense of the red pill can finally end. Shit, I thought Heartiste and hookingup smart were fucking satire but damn, you people really take this serious. More money for me, I guess. God knows being a psychologist already pays good enough.

  48. ”“Jerk” is a terminology invented by the Feminine Imperative. Actually I think being self-concerned or putting yourself as your mental point of origin is critical to a man’s idealism if he’s truly passionate about his idealism.
    Pandering to feminine-primacy isn’t idealism.”

    And what would the feminine imperative be? Fuck hot men? What is the reverse of the feminine imperative? fuck hot girls and marry plain-looking girls who’ll put out whenever you want and obey your every command, or as the Sultan Alpha of the King-Alphas we have here you deserve Adriana Lima? Enlighten me, great Alpha.

    ”“Civilization was basically built for women by men” currently gets no search results in google, even taking out “basically”. However the one thing that does get a hit “”Civilization was built by men for women” is ” If civilization was built by men ‘for women’ then why is it just so awful being a women”. Take out the double quotes and you can read lots of Camille Paglia, which will help you take these social blinders off.

    Civilization was built because getting killed by a fucking bear was not pleasant, smart ass. Do you even understand how human beings came from the mesolithic to the neolhitic period? Why men settle down and became farmers? Shit, I don’t know, because it was better than the alternative? Men don’t do shit for women, stop thinking everything we do is for the nookie. The majority of men aren’t teenagers stuck in old bodies like the whole lot of you here. Men(not any of you) built civilization because we wanted to bring comfort and warmth and richeness into our lives, it was never about getting laid.

    You people’s arguments are so limited.

    ”100 years old women were real women and men were respected.”

    Er, 100 years ago people died from a tooth infection. Want to go back so that you can get laid?

    ” Women select the best-looking men for casual sex and then we have to pay for it hur-hur”

    Lose some fucking weight and women will look at you. If you are 40 don’t look at 20 year old women, fucker. I’ve even seen 70 year old men stare at 15 year old chicks, yeah you lot really make female ”hypergamy” seem like a wound against mankind when you can’t control your old balls.

    ” Women only want tall men!”

    I’m 5’6”, I don’t look good, and I’m dating a 6 feet tall Swedish top model. I’m not a gamer(LOL, I can’t even think of that without laughing) I’m someone who doesn’t whine and I dont’ act like a victim like you all.

    You know what, fuck this. I’m going out and have some fun with people who aren’t socially retarded. Enjoy your bitter almonds, faggots.

  49. ”Let me repeat my position to someone. Although I will staunchly defend the truth that violence “works”, because of how women are, ”

    Damn. I already had you figured out for a retard but you’re reaching the level of sodini. And you are married? you bought your wife in Russia or in China? Women who select violent men as their partners had shitty childhoods.I interact everyday with women who have to stay with their abusive husbands because they have no chance. Trust me, you creepy fuck(oh shit, I must be a woman disguised!) I know of plenty of guys who would break your dentures off your decrepit mouth if they ever hear you say violence against women works because of who they are.

    Bunch of faggots who show pleasant faces in public then come to this ”blog” to talk shit about people.

  50. ”The only way to continually prop up women’s SMV is to artificially lower men’s SMV.”

    75% of the male population in the western civilization is beyond obese. Yes, women need to artificially lower what is not fucking there to begin with.

    Ok, I’m done. Later, grandpa.

  51. ” I’m going out and have some fun with people who aren’t socially retarded.”

    Wherever you go, there you are.

  52. Freud has obviously spent considerable time here. Between the vitriol there might be a point of view I’d be interested in understanding. But again, because of the simplistic characterizations of what and whom we are, Freud’s message is lost.

    Most of the tenets espoused in Rational Male fit my own observations of inter-gender behavior. And as a model have proven predictive of future behavior.

    OK, so I reviewed Freud’s posts again carefully, looking for any useful nuggets. Came up short. Sorry.

  53. Jesus. It’s Prof. Hardnutt , she’s back.

    “The majority of them is more educated” Ha! Irony for effect. Nice one.

    “Do you even understand how human beings came from the mesolithic to the neolhitic period? Why men settle down and became farmers?”
    Oddly enough, more than you could possibly imagine, sweetie.

    “Ok, I’m done. Later, grandpa.”
    Balls. That’s only the first 30.5 column inches, by my screen, and now you’ve got a bite you’ll be back. Again, and again, and again.
    You simply can’t resist the attention, stumpy. Guaranteed.

  54. Ho ho, I see the landlord has sussed “Freud” out as well while I was tapping away. Is she on something? Take me a week to type out all that crap, it would.

  55. I don’t even need to look at IP numbers anymore to know it’s Princess. Really Princess, you can spare gmail your spoof email accounts, I don’t moderate the comments. However, your insistence on creating a new email account to post under a new pseudonym every time you post here is a testament to your troll dedication. Bravo!

    And…not for nothing, but I’d kill myself if I “managed” a casino. I make about that average salary from just my whisky brands royalties just sitting here typing this to you.

    Also, Deti is not Obsidian, come back and retake the test after you study up again.

  56. Rollo, that “alpha tell” video on your twitter reminds me of videos where girls fainted for the Beatles and Micheal Jackson. Is that what you meant in the book, when you talked about how sexual attraction had characteristics of Anxiety, tension, and urgency ?

  57. @Sloth, yes, but outright hysteria is a uniquely feminine condition.

    I have a forthcoming post about hysteria coming soon actually, but it’s important to differentiate individualized anxiety, urgency and sexual tension from a collectivized hysteria due to a widely confirmed social proof (i.e. false fame).

  58. What is the female analogue of the humiliating male cuckold fantasy? (I don’t grok the concept myself, because even the whiff of the notion that some other guy might be with my girl creates negative emotions for me)

    Is it, possibly, the negative-attention whore? Like, she fantasizes about going naked on a slut walk and all the men avert their eyes and make retching noises?

  59. I think we all know the fatal flaw in Open Hypergamy: it forces men’s hand, it pushes men into alpha. Open Hypergamy is a surrender in disguise, because the only available countermove is Open Dread.

    Check and mate.

  60. Loving a woman and what she does for your life is totally compatible with Alpha and DHV. She is an important part of your life that helps you become the creator of your personal world (career, family, interests, etc.). She helps you naturally be the man that you want to be. That’s all she wants. A strong, authentic, dynamic protector who values her for her contribution to his life. She does not want to be your life. The men who make a woman their life are those without imagination, drive and courage. That’s why a woman will always despise those men. Because, fundamentally, they can’t give her comfort that they can protect her and her offspring. This is basic evopsych. Focus on yourself only. Bring women into your life who help you become that best self. The end.

  61. Alpha is the natural state for men who survive and they are the ones who perpetuate history. Otherwise, the human race would have died out long ago. To any beta, please, stop deluding yourself and embrace your natural dynamic, physical, sexual self.

  62. The Nizkor Project (o teach about the Holocaust and to combat hatred) has a great index of techniques of the haters. Here’s Personal Attack (also known as Ad Hominem Abusive):

    http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/personal-attack.html

    That takes care of the bulk of content provided by the girl friend of a Swedish top model. In regard to “enjoy your bitter almonds”, you are quite prescience, I bought some dark chocolate almonds just minutes ago.

    “Men(not any of you) built civilization because we wanted to bring comfort and warmth and richeness into our lives, it was never about getting laid.”

    Now that you are agreeing with me, would you like some dark chocolate almonds?

  63. 100 years ago, men were the head of the household, was married to a low count woman (often a virgin at marriage), his wife took his name, and laws were biased towards him. Feminists have done a terrific job of documenting this. There is no way that the average man felt he had less power in the relationship, since he didn’t have less power. His natural state was not subservient to his wife. Yes he was emotional attached to her, and hoped she didn’t die in giving birth to his children.

    Compare all this to today, and see how current social programming can warp your view of natural state.

    Tradcon bullshit propaganda looking back with rose colored glasses at some supposed golden age of man. Man was still subservient to his wife. He still had to go out and bring home the bacon or die on the battlefield for women. Sure she had it much harder with the household chores until MEN invented all the appliances that made her life easier AND a FEMALE birth control not a male one that allowed women to divorce in mass and toss their husbands to the curb. So men did not create civilization for women? lmao

    Go back 2000 years to Rome and most men were celibate slaves their entire lives while most of the women engaged in orgies with the alphas at the time. Kind of like now! Sorry the Patriarchy has never really existed like the feminists would have you believe.

  64. Re:cuckold

    What many “manospherians” seem to forget is that while some men are into cuckolding, it says a lot more about the women who actually succumb to it and cherish it. Obviously, this touches on a women’s pluralistic strategy but there’s a darker truth here.

    Let me explain, as we all know, women are the gatekeepers of sex. Women won’t have sex with unattractive males they deem unfit or physically unpleasing (from an alpha fucks point of view). Women have sex to potentially have children with their mates. I mean sure, the pill, the condom, and abortions have changed this but the primal drive behind it all (to have children) is still there. Now, most cuckolding types of pairings involve an… interracial mix. Men in the manosphere blame the beta men for this type of influence but I wouldn’t be so sure of it. Remember, women are the gatekeepers of sex so something else is at play here. What I’m getting at is: women’s choice. I always thought that women prefer their own kind but I have come to realize that this only occurs under certain circumstances. Perhaps a dark truth behind it all is that most women actually do crave a cuckold type of relationship with not only an alpha man, but also a man “from another tribe.” Many things come to mind here: War Brides, Stockholm Syndrome, and feral Hypergamy. You don’t believe me? Have a look at the link below (NSFW)

    xhamster (DOT) com/channels/new-female_choice-1.html

    (I left out the dot before com, because I wasn’t sure if posting the complete link would eat up the comment. )

    This link covers a category for “female’s choice”. In other words, it’s the top videos most women watch to get off or sexually excite themselves. This is typically confirmed by the use of google ads (much like the pornhub chart which covered demographic choice).Now what are the top choices you see from women? Yes, there’s lesbian and…interracial. Specifically, cuckold interracial porn.

    I know no one will ever cover this subject more in depth (out of fear of uncovering some very dark taboos) but it makes for great discussion. After all, we’re here to learn the truth behind how women truly operate.

  65. Back to Rollo’s post, have you noticed how short the shelf life of a beta is becoming? When the average of age of marriage was around 25, the beta could get engaged and marry, his wife would be pleasantly occupied with wedding showers, wedding, baby showers, babies, and all her BFFs on the same program. Following the generalized SMV timeline of Rollo (albeit some changes 20 years ago): :

    the wife didn’t start the abandonment of the marriage, via divorce or dead bedroom, until about 35, giving the beta about 10 “good” years, and if he sat out the next few years he could join in the musical chairs of the 40’s having second marriages, leveraging his higher SMV compared to when he first got married.

    Now the women are getting married around 30, having a couple of kids (give or take one), and then it’s why am I married to this loser? The shelf life of the beta is about 5 years, and a considerable amount of that time his wife is either pregnant or nursing a baby.

  66. Its a manosphere myth that there are lands overseas where the grass is greener and women with attitudes that harken back to some traditional golden age can be found.

    It is not a myth. I PERSONALLY know 4 different men who all went overseas and found a traditional woman who they married and brought back to the US and had kids with (3 out of the 4). 12-20 years later they are all still together with the houses and the white picket fence. Highly unlikely the women have ever cheated on their husbands either. So your just wrong. It is a manosphere myth that is not possible. BUT, like I said you better have the coin to attract her and keep her or forget it. You will still be her provider slave but it is possible she will be loyal and stay with you. That’s a proven fact.

  67. Rollo, I love your article, but you didn’t mention a small-but-important irony. To resent a man who intimately accepts her despite knowing about hypergamy is *really* to resent all men for granting her the sexual freedom that put her in this position.

    She wants a society in which men are both sufficiently competent and morally compelled to prevent her from making bad choices, standing in between herself and her Alpha Cad if necessary. She wants, sad and ironic though it may be, a Patriarchy. 🙂

    What’s sad, though, for them is that as I become more self-assured and self-improved, I only want to be a Patriarch for a younger, prettier woman who’s committed to me.

    I think a great follow-up article would be entitled, “Why does Rollo Tomassi instruct men, but not women?” (The verb “instruct” is crucial, because women don’t want a society where men *KNOW* which female choices are good/bad but allow all women to make their own choices. They want a society where men know which female choices are good/bad and actively prevent women from making bad choices. It’s only the *MEN* who want to be told which choices are good/bad and want the freedom for everyone to make their own choices.)

  68. “Go back 2000 years to Rome and most men were celibate slaves their entire lives while most of the women engaged in orgies with the alphas at the time.”

    If you refer to Slavery in the Late Roman World, AD 275–425, you will see that slavery was very unlikely to be male dominated in both the early and late periods. I idea that Romans created their civilization for women is lacking any historical context.

  69. Stephan Molyneaux deals with this in this video:

    He is really getting red pill in his commentary. I don’t agree with this pro-anarchy but his red pill analysis is excellent.

  70.  jf12 – “Let me repeat my position to someone. Although I will staunchly defend the truth that violence ‘works’, because of how women are, I am not advocating violence against women. To accuse me otherwise makes you guilty of the is-ought fallacy.”

    An idea I’ve been mulling for awhile.

    Male violence or the tendency for such is the analogue for women’s hypegamy.

    First we should think of violence and hypegamy not as exclusively sexual strategies but rather as the survival skills unique to each sex. 

    For woman hypergamy mitigates against being generally smaller, slower, weaker than men and also for being burdened with having to endure pregnancy, and the care and feeding of small children. Also hypergamy facilitates switching mates which is made necessary because of male violence, and acts as a check against male violence. 

    Men require violence because most of what men do physically requires overt violent bursts of physically strength. Everything from hunting to hammering is a sort of purposeful violent act. Violence between men establishes hierarchies and codes of conduct. Violence between groups of men serves the purpose of defending property and community, and/or being able to expand holdings of property and community by creating new mating opportunities. Also the possibility of violence acts as a check against hypergamy.

    The stats on increasing violence on the part of women today seem to track alongside with increasingly open and unrestrained hypergamy. As noted male crime, especially violent crime,  is on the decline at the same time. I wonder if there might be a connection.

    Elsewhere we’ve discussed the dearth of real masculine men. My question is can a man be a real man, a masculine man, without violence? 

    Further I think that this tension between hypergamy and violence is what generates respect.  Both sexes present risk and reward to the other. Neither can respect the other if there is no risk no matter how great the reward. Reward without risk breeds resentment and contempt hence the failure of nice guys generally as they cannot generate respect. 

    In the macro sense when men collectively agreed to allow the state, or feudal lord, or some other apex leader to hold the monopoly on violence this was done on the understanding that the monopoly would be used to protect and defend everyone by mitigating the uncertainty that plagues an everyman for himself system. When that system becomes corrupt tyranny is the result as those who hold the power and right to violence no longer serve the interest of the masses. The only reason corrupt system fester and linger is the disaffected out groups know they will have to do battle not only with corrupted powers that be but also with other groups. 

    Today in the west feminism has turned to the state violence to keep men down while raising themselves up and doing so with the full protection of the state. Men who engage in violence against women are presumed as criminals by the simple default fact that male violence is always potentially lethal, whereas female violence is often just annoying. The myopic focus of the law on that practical reality allows female violence to be used against men without restraint and as a extension of the worst expression of hypergamy. Combined with a corrupt legal system the result can only be what we see today. 

    Men gave up individual violence to build civilization, women benefitted directly from that. Over time this suppression of male violence has created men who are frustrated, emasculated, betatized and placed in a position of default surrender to an unrestrained FI. One the one hand men are restrained in how they deal physically with women, but more importantly they are restrained in how they deal with each other.

    The “malice and forethought” of unrestrained open hypergamy is only possible in a world that presents women no real risk of physical violence. Hypergamy can parade about openly because there is no real concern that men might rise up and shut it down the old fashioned way. Worries about “rape culture” and domestic violence are one part shit-test, and one part effect of a zero tolerance mindset that has practically eleminated real threats but still needs to reinforce the repression of those who were never a problem.

  71. Pretty good propositions in yr. com. , BP.
    “a zero tolerance mindset that has practically eliminated real threats but still needs to reinforce the repression of those who were never a problem”
    Except one problem. How to dispose of and remove these unattractive men permanently, so they don’t have to sift the dross available to them (their actual SMV equivalents, if assortative mating was practised).

    The answer being, of course, the perpetual invoking of .. er, violence against them, by those few men who still have the state’s approval to employ this capacity. Who, by dint of their embedding in the Apex Alpha Power of the state (republic, emperor, god-king, whatever) and their freedom to employ violence in the service of the all-providing Alpha State or women, remain compulsively attractive to women.

    Even those malodorous, misshapen, personality-disordered sexual market rejects and seconds, the SJW feminists. Moar calls needed! Haalp, Mister Cop/Lawyer/Professor/Soldier, it would appear I do not have your full attention! Raep! Missojaneee! Abu-u-uuuuse!1! Heeeeelp Meeeeeee!! Notice Meeee …

    Bag of broken biscuits the lot. Wouldn’t even give ’em to the dog.

  72. If you refer to Slavery in the Late Roman World, AD 275–425, you will see that slavery was very unlikely to be male dominated in both the early and late periods. I idea that Romans created their civilization for women is lacking any historical context.

    Dude wtf are talking about? So it was women plowing the fields and doing the heavy lifting? It was women building the infrastructure and growing the food? Every civilization from the big to small was created by men to gather resources to attract women for mating. If you don’t understand this basic concept there is no point in having a discussion. Please continue to believe otherwise if it makes you feel better. Men just build things for the hell of it I guess. lol

  73. “Every civilization from the big to small was created by men to gather resources”

    good so far, gather and keep resources

    “to attract women for mating”

    wrong, they didn’t attract, they took

    “there is no point in having a discussion”

    sure, bail out dude, lmao

  74. It’s sort of the same with getting married. She knows it’s a shitty deal for the man, but needs the deal to survive. Unfortunately, any man who signs the shitty deal automatically looks pathetic to the wife, not to mention the competition anxiety that has disappeared.

    Rollo, is the imperative in our male dna? I mean, if you look at other species, it seems like the males are often treated like garbage by the females. We are naturally slaves to women in some way, are we not? Only, the red pill awakening makes us hate our nature.

  75. Bangor Tango – “Every civilization from the big to small was created by men to gather resources to attract women for mating.”

    I think this is a flawed perspective.

    Civilization is the collective whole of the technical solutions to the survival problem. Generally the point is not to attract women but to ensure everyone eats. Individually the goalies to produce the same or better output with less actual labor. The drivers of development are first and foremost trying to make their individual lives easier by finding less labor intensive methods of securing, and retaing access to food and clean water. As far as women are concerned it’s a case of built it they will come. The tendency of women to seek men ensured a better fed community would have greater mating opportunities without that even being a consideration.

    That male technical creativity also creates the ability to secure sexual access on a pay as you go basis is a secondary a effect at best. In higher levels of development a perception of freedom from scarcity creates the impression of it all being about the women. Especially when the civilization built by men provides enough seurity for women to dominate the social structures within. This is by virtue of the fact most men are too busy working or too tired to be bothered with the mundane trivia of society. This also gives us the current problem of men having slit their own throats by making themselves appear obsolete in the in femcetric societies operating in these civilizations.

    One reaction we see now to the oversupply of basic survival goods is women abandoning the men providing these goods. Since women were at best cheerleaders to the buiding effort they have no appreciation for the actual work necessary to create and maintain civilization. Having never known scarcity they are incapable of understanding the fragility of the system and thus their expectations become entitlements to be met by men they have no gratitude for if the even recognize these men exist in the first place.

  76. @Badpainter, re: violence vs hypergamy.

    Great points all around. Hypergamy is the means by which the FI manifests itself most directly, and male violence is the means by which the male imperative (to have as many women as possible) manifests itself most directly.

    re: “Men gave up individual violence to build civilization, women benefitted directly from that. Over time this suppression of male violence has created men who are frustrated, emasculated, betatized and placed in a position of default surrender to an unrestrained FI. One the one hand men are restrained in how they deal physically with women, but more importantly they are restrained in how they deal with each other.”

    I agree except that I think it’s much more important for gender relations that men are currently restrained in dealing with women. Did you see the “men cooperate, women quarrel” article from Psychology Today?

  77. A neighbor of sorts in her late 30s, from a different street, I’ve known for some years just from seeing her out and about. After she had her one child at about age 30, she let herself go for a few years then kicked her beta husband out (he’s since remarried, and had another kid). She’s been out walking regularly for a while, but just recently started jogging a bit. She laughs about trying to lose weight to attract a better sort of man. I’ve tried to tell her that jogging just makes you good at jogging, while dieting is how you lose weight, but she evidently hasn’t listened.

    Today the weather was cool enough to jog midafternoon, but humid enough that she removed almost all of her clothing. She churned sluggishly but determinedly past as I was planting some pansies out by the road, smiling with a little wave. I could almost hear what her earbuds were playing.

    As far as I know she has had zero men in her life since her husband. THAT is the reality of “women’s choice” these days.

  78. jf12 – “I agree except that I think it’s much more important for gender relations that men are currently restrained in dealing with women.”

    I agree in principle. How much restraint is enough? Too much? The actual use of violence against a woman is unnecessary as long as there is a credible possibilty that it exists in everyman. The neutered Betas of 2014 collectively lack that threat. That any individual Beta might go ape-shit is not enough to provide a social herd immunity.

    The crux of the problem is the absence of a credible violent threat. Creating one needs only involve men. In the past mate poaching was often dealt with by fists, or perhaps gun play. Cads who lacked the discretion to remain below the radar often ended up swinging from branches, or having “accidents”, if not getting run out of town on a rail. This sort of violence maintained a balance of power amongst the men which acted as a break on hypergamy by raising the price of illicit sex for men.

  79. @BP re: herd immunity by proxy. This is some deep stuff we’re wading in, but those who are reading along may benefit.

    I’m not going to agree that the best way for a man to be credibly violent is to restrain his violence and direct it solely against another man. I also do not agree with the unmade point that women tend to get turned on by, or even care about, one man beating down another man. Women do get turned on by a male exhibiting unrestrained violence, including jumping up and down and pant-hooting and beating the ground with branches and pounding his chest.

    What counts to women is the potential for that violence to be used against them. That is why the unrestrainedness is more important. The cad swinging from the branches can serve as an effective threat towards women since it is more difficult to beat up and string up a man than a woman, but ONLY if the women believe the men just might do it.

    Also, the continual misdirection (by others) of violence as indicative of *protection* is too obviously in service of the FI. Women do not get turned on by protection; that is beta.

  80. “Having never known scarcity they are incapable of understanding the fragility of the system”

    thank you for explaining why my wife doesn’t see the need to keep water and canned goods in case of a disaster

  81. jf12 – “What counts to women is the potential for that violence to be used against them.”

    The demonstrate willingness to go to blows with another man is alone insufficient you’re correct, but it is still necessary as it demonstrates ability. In aggregate there needs be enough men who show a willingness to do same with women. This need not be full on beat down, a light slap, or hard squeeze of an upper arm would be enough when coupled with the proper frame of obvious controlled anger. However these things will result in jail, and in the US the loss of Second Amedment Rights, among other things Thus the potential threat is almost wholly neutralized, and functionally non-existant.

    The FI has created a huge game of chicken where men generally are triple dog dared to do something at the risk of loss of liberty or property. Naturally the women find weakness and fault in men who don’t answer the challenge, what the men are saying unconvincingly is the women aren’t worth the potential consequences. The idea that game is any sort of macro solution is wishful thinking. At best the impact from a game aware, Redpill male population is a severe shortage of hosts for the epiphany parasites in this particular legal regime. I can’t see that as long term solution.

  82. @BP re: “The FI has created a huge game of chicken where men generally are triple dog dared to do something at the risk of loss of liberty or property.” + “game is any sort of macro solution”

    You are designing the solution by delineating the problem. To be effective, Game must be a way to win, to cheat, at this game of chicken.

  83. Game is just an expression of a masculine nature. The point of understanding it is to know the beast that lives inside every blue-pill beta and how to learn to liberate it. There is no way to “cheat”. A man either becomes masculine and lives for his own pleasure, in which case, the women in his life slip into his frame….or he stays a beta provider who gets abused. There is no middle ground.

  84. Men who fear being single like women do are beta men.

    Why would any man “fear” being single? Being single means that every woman out their is your prey – and they so like to be “eaten”… It makes sense for women to fear being single – they have a very short window to find and land a man, as well as have children. Men can start a family any time up to the point he dies, and since women find wealth, and power turn-ons, the older he is, the more options he has when it comes to women.

    Men should embrace the opportunities being single gives him, and enjoy them to the fullest. Sure women will rant and rave as you bed teenagers when you’re 50+, but that is because they see their options slipping away, and the young women are their competition, ones that they are doomed to lose to. So it only makes sense that they would fear being old and alone… Men never have to be alone, as long as there are young women out there, looking for affirmation and approval. And ALL women are looking for that – so enjoy…

  85. jf12 – ” Game must be a way to win, to cheat, at this game of chicken.”

    I think game is a very good work around for some number of men individually but not a panacea. The existing social structures and poitical/legal regime are fully supportive of open unrestrained hypergamy, game does not address that. Nothing addresses the fundamental deceit of the epiphany phase.

    I also believe under the current social order that if all men were game aware and redpill then the 80/20 rule would still apply but the value of men much higher. The external incentives for open hypergamy can’t be mitigated in aggregate by game alone.

    The only way to win the greater game of chicken is to ensure both sides have something to lose. Right now there are no obvious consequences for women that match the consequences for men.

  86. New Yorker – “There is no way to ‘cheat.’ A man either becomes masculine and lives for his own pleasure…”

    In so far as game is concerned you’re correct. The “cheat” I refer to is external to game. The legal externalities are not adequately mitigated by game and require a conscious awareness of their existance at minimum. Dealing with the basic deceit and duplicity of women is one thing, dealing with the FI’s jack-booted thugs and Kafkaesque legal system is another. Without the externalities created by the FI game might well be a universal solution.

  87. Nicely put, I’m following all these threads and finding the word stephen to see if he’s commented and read rollo’s take on it . .can someone confirm that??

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