Violence

There’s an interesting dynamic with regards to women and male vs. male violence. I have some interesting stories that address this.

When I was dating my wife I was a blue belt in [a martial art that will go nameless in order to avoid the inevitable debate on which is ‘the best’] and was just getting into competitive sparring. As a date idea I once asked her if she would come with me to Sacramento for a tournament and later we could hit a sushi bar I knew of down there. Instead of the standard “oh I think violence is just terrible/juvenile/men with insecurities stuff” line I would expect from 90% of women, and to my surprise, she enthusiastically agreed. When it came time for my sparring events I beat everyone in my pool that day and placed first for my belt class – trophy in hand. I don’t say this to gloss myself (since I generally had my ass handed to me pretty regularly), but I just happened to win this day and I even took out the last guy with a 3 point head kick and unintentionally drawing a little blood from his nose in the process. To make a long story short, we never made it to the sushi bar that evening – we were too busy fucking like rabbits back at the motel room, she wouldn’t even let me shower! My girlfriend (now wife) worked me 7 way to Tuesday in bed and this is still some of the most memorable sex I’ve had with her.

Next story – As some of you know, I used to be the art director for a major casino in Nevada. We had on two occasions a King of the Cage (UFC/MMA early incarnation) event there. In both instances the women in my department would go nuts over this. Most of these guys are in very good shape physically, but the fighting dynamic is what puts them into a real frenzy. These women would look forward for months to these events, not because of the sport of fighting, but their attraction to the personas of the fighters we did promos and PR with (“I’d jump so-and-so and do him all day, etc.”). Understand that none of these women had any idea of what these guy’s personalities were like, they just lusted after the idea of what they were.

At the last event, a group of guys who were the boyfriends of a few of these women, went to the King of the Cage matches, and got into a street fight in the parking lot later after the event was over on their way back to their cars. When the girls related this story to the rest of us the next day, they emphatically decried how shocked and disappointed they were with their boyfriends for resorting to violence. They then began characterizing ‘men’ as just big children, and ‘brutish’ and ‘typical’.

Now, do you see the contradiction here? There is a definite sexual attraction to a man who can ‘handle himself’ by women. I don’t think I need to reiterate my posts on the attraction of the Alpha thug appeal. For the most part women will ardently deny this to no end so as not to seem to condone violence, while at the same time reward the man, the soldier, etc. who can take care of ‘business’ – who goes off to war – with her intimacy and sexuality so long as he fits her mental archetype of the guy who deserves it. Even if you disagree with this assessment, you have to see the paradox and the confusion it creates for a man. Be a gentleman, but don’t be a gentle man. And again, this all comes back to her intrinsic need for security and ‘strength’ in a man, while at the same time verbally denying she is attracted to it. Society tells her she should be disgusted with the man who punches the guy who disses her at the bar, but in practice, she takes the guy home and fucks his brains out or fantasizes about the hot fighter in the ring who would do the same.

A capacity for at least measured violence in a Man stimulates a woman’s desire of fantasy, sexual submission, physicality and security.

One thing I’ve learned about fighting is you don’t go looking for shit, because you’ll find it. Not only that, but if it seems like you’re looking for it, women think you’re an automatic asshole and/or are using that bravado as an overt message to directly to trigger this appeal for her. But if you’re careful, and the opportunity presents itself in such a way that you end up the hero, and whether or not you get your ass kicked, chicks will give it up faster than for any other reason or motivation. If your motives are even peripherally noble, the situation allows for indirect social proof and you actually have the confidence to put your face in the path of someone’s fist, regardless of circumstance or even the outcome nothing spreads a woman’s legs faster. However, you have to be seen as positive, not the aggressor.


61 responses to “Violence

  • Jordan

    Its amazing how violence plays into their hindbrain. My ex-wife was one of those. I could do unspeakablely violent things to her in bed, but if I ever got mad at her or started raising a hand in anger (never to be brought down), suddenly I’m an evil asshole. I swear it was easier to just raid villages and toss the chicks over your shoulder.

  • MiGHOW

    Intensive care game….not too sure on this.

    Its a very fine line these days as we all know violence can escalate very quickly into real potential for serious injury. Once you are into a melee its hard to predict outcomes.

    Supervised and refereed sports type activities absolutely agree, outside of that and in general, discretion is the better part of valor. The potential of being manipulated into white knighting is a risk to consider.

  • democratsarefascists

    Of course that anti-violence pose is just that…a crock. That became apparent to me in my youth, the first time I got into a tussle with a drunken idiot while my girlfriend was looking on. I put his face into a table. The second we got home and in the door, she instantly pulled down her pants and we went at it. Hell, women watch boxing and UFC and get visibly excited.

  • dragnet

    Great post. I weighed in on violence and male hierarchies at Roissy’s awhile back:

    http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2010/04/16/greatest-pimp-slap-ever/#comment-166174

    The only thing I would add is that women react better to violence when it is in controlled venue that confers high status—like a boxing match or a UFC fight. A few guys brawling in an alley doesn’t cut it.

  • Flatnose

    Brawling is so undignified for the mature man…sometimes though action does need to be taken but only as a last resort. Saying that on my first date with my wife I ended up in a brawl when I was sat down and attacked from behind. An elbow to the groin ended the problem…I wonder if she made the decision then?

  • dc1000

    as an accomplished fighter, i can tell you that all women love it. even the vegan pacifists, they love the idea that you can mangle and mash some (all) other dudes and them in turn. my girlfriend now always says that she loves the idea that i could destroy her without blinking, but i simply choose not to.

    as i get a little older here, i’m debating retiring from fighting (undefeated). its a young man’s game. but the pure unadulterated alphaness of it all is hard to let go of…

  • Wudang

    What is the effect when you loose sparring matches Rollo? Still positive because the whole thing is arousing and you are being brave and tough or bad because you lost?

    And what about a woman you dating finding out you do martial arts, especially one where you actually do full contact sparring like thai boxing?

  • dc1000

    muay thai is my game. i can tell you that sparring and coming back from the gym with stories of punching dudes in the face works wonders.

    if you come home with a black eye, even better

    losing sucks in any situation, but i think as long as you handle it well, its still only a positive.

    (not that i would know about losing!)

  • democratsarefascists

    MMA and all martial arts are good, but you guys should also try Krav Maga. It’s not all the poses and tradition that women like, it’s the hitting. :-) Fast, furious and just frightening enough to turn them on.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    At the risk of going ‘Fight Club’ here, I think it’s really about a willingness to get into harms way – most guys you know probably wont. I’ve taken some pretty good shots in my day, but even when you spit blood and lose there’s a lovable acceptance for a guy with the balls to get up and put himself in that position to begin with.

    I think it’s a confirmation of tamping down your fear – and that’s always an Alpha indicator in spite of the outcome . With very few notable exceptions, women tend to be insulated from the degree of physicality involved when two men are determined to beat the fuck out of each other. With the exception of maybe one other guy in my most immediate social circle, I can’t imagine any of them initiating or holding up very well in a physical confrontation.

    I’m not saying I necessarily would either, but I have in the past and would in the future, have the willingness to think ‘fuck it, it’s on.’

    It kind of links in with the criminal attraction because technically battery is a criminal act now. You don’t have to be incarcerated to subcommunicate to a woman that you’re capable of fighting, you just need to display an irrational confidence in your risk physical harm to yourself.

  • Guerrerro

    Even seen the face of a woman that a man has just killed another over? Angellic fullfillment.

  • Jon

    There was a story of some french guy cutting off the penis of the guy his girlfriend was having an affair with. The girl went back to the guy who hacked off his rivals penis……

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/9131384/French-man-explains-how-he-cut-off-love-rivals-penis.html

  • Flatnose

    This one always puzzles me…I found myself in a peculiar position the other day at a bar. I was talking to a female friend at a bar when this idiot at my side tried to cut in by high fiving her, When she ignored him he took out his anger on me and started calling me a c#*t. If I get done for assault can I lose my job, I am a mental health professional. Rather than react into his frame I went for the middle ground, stood my ground, did not alter my body language except raised my chin, bared my neck and totally blanked him when he attempt to engage me in arguement. He continued to insult me for about a minute and then disappeared. I did not move from my position. A few years ago I would have reacted and escalated but at the threat of losing my job and with women and children to feed lt I had to take a different tack. I felt I managed the situation reasonably well considering. However, if he had physically escalated on either myself or my friend I would have then gone “fuck it…its on”. Thoughts?

  • Flatnose

    Edited for grammar! This one always puzzles me…I found myself in a peculiar position the other day at a bar. I was talking to a female friend at a bar when this idiot at my side tried to cut in by high fiving her, When she ignored him he took out his anger on me and started calling me a c#*t. If I get done for assault I CAN lose my job, I am a mental health professional. Rather than react into his frame I went for the middle ground, stood my ground, did not alter my body language except raised my chin, bared my neck and totally blanked him when he attempt to engage me in argument. He continued to insult me for about a minute and then disappeared. I did not move from my position. A few years ago I would have reacted and escalated but at the threat of losing my job and with women and children to feed lt I had to take a different tack. I felt I managed the situation reasonably well considering. However, if he had physically escalated on either myself or my friend I would have then gone “fuck it…its on”. Thoughts?

  • Sam Spade

    Your instincts are correct. Maintaining composure will rarely if ever cost you points. However if the guy starts something physically, then you are bound to subdue him. I’d say you handled it well, considering bars don’t care who started what, they will throw you both out or have you arrested. Remember Patrick Swayze in Road House – he never looked for violence!

  • Stingray

    I can’t speak for other women, but I find the man that can take care of business, but takes the course you described more attractive than a guy who will just throw down. There is something about that look in their eye that says, “If you wanna take this further, I’m game, but you WILL be bloodied” that is amazing. What is even more amazing is watching the other guy back down after seeing that look. It’s powerful.

  • democratsarefascists

    I don’t know, man..
    He outright challenged you and now he feels free to do it again, when he’s clearly a nutless dipstick. He feels like he won. It sucks that a job and this economy keeps you from breaking him, but it’s understandable. I guess.

  • democratsarefascists

    It’s the “back down” part that matters. It has to be VERY clear, absolutely clear, that the man who chooses not to fuck him up is letting him live and is dominant. If I choose that course and that guy ever eyeballs me again, I will fuck him up.

  • democratsarefascists

    There are perhaps three women in the whole world who would be worthy of that. No, I don’t know who they are.

  • democratsarefascists

    For me, that’s the whole question. Your fear. Fear of what? A little pain or a busted lip? Think of the cost if you don’t stand up and the potential benefits of being undeniably the alpha. You know how few fights ever wind up in court? Come on. The cops don’t care. They’re just there to mop up the blood and if you’re smart, you’re already gone.

  • democratsarefascists

    ESPECIALLY the Vegan pacifists and fem-lit majors.They’re also the ones that like getting choked and can’t come unless you pinch their nipples and pull their hair.

    Hypocrites is what they are. They construct little rationalization barriers, (okay, you can treat me like that, but don’t call me “slave.”) but they kneel when you order them to.

  • Mike C

    Yup, I learned this in the year I spent bouncing in between professional cubicle jobs. The willingness to use measured violence is just another mindset, and definitely a tingle generator.

  • jimmy

    It could come back to covert and overt and the way women respond to both forms. If the circumstances seem in a roundabout way or covert – then its a leg opener. If it seems overt then it kills it for them. (no pun intended). I got into a fight on the way to work on a train once as the other guy was the one who picked it and I ended it – maybe a little to far as I punched him a number of times to the extent of braking the little bone in my hand into 4 pieces. The women at work swooned and my girlfriend at the time was annoyed to the point it was the beginning of the end for us.

  • AW

    Timely post. As a matter of fact just this last weekend I was out at a club with some friends, got a bit too drunk (my mistake) and was dancing with/kissing girls (they were all with our group so no, it wasn’t his gf) all over the dance floor. Some giant nephilim dude gets in my face out of nowhere. I suspect his envy at my dance-floor game got the best of him? Still have no idea. Anyway I tried to talk to him for a sec to keep things chill but then he started pushing me so I swung on him. I’m in good shape, 5’ll @180lbs but this dude was a head taller and had probably 40 lbs of muscle on me. And I was already hammered. And it turned out he was an off-duty bouncer at that club (which is why security did nothing when he got in my face out of nowhere). I got in a few good hits but needless to say I got worked pretty good, sitting here with two black eyes ha.

    However. I have no regrets since I did something rather than nothing. The girls we were with saw the whole thing from the beginning and recognized I didn’t care to take disrespect even if it meant a near-certain ass-kicking. Gina tingles abounded.

  • Diabolical SouthPaw

    Oh Rollo now you’ve gone and done it…the end all to true alphaness…violence. The true contest of man vs. man with the superior being the victor, what more could a woman ask for than the guy who can kick everyone’s ass in the room.
    You nailed one maxim of a scrap which is don’t go looking for shit unless you really want to find it. Rollins said straight out if you want a fight you can find it within the first five minutes in public, and that is what he did for two years. But the maxim that overrides looking for trouble is, don’t fight somebody who’s got nothing to lose. That or once violence starts you have lost control and there’s no sure way to know where it will end. I realize the majority of dust-ups lead to a busted nose or maybe the loss of a few teeth, but really once it goes, it can go as far as someone not waking up. It is in our genes, and we all carry it. I’ve seen plenty of scraps, most of them ugly stylistically with relatively benign outcomes, but when the fun really gets going it could end with someone twitching and a death gurgle. As extreme as that may sound, if I get into a scrap, that is where I realize it could go and in turn am willing to take it. My only strategy ever has been to end it as quickly as possible with as little bodily harm to myself as possible.
    Growing up I was usually the smallest in my peer group due to age. I also had(have) a temper from hell, and until it got to be a ‘problem'(programmed fear of consequences) I never backed down. This ended up with me getting my ass kicked by bigger and older males but also knowing how to put a hurting on someone when it mattered by the time I got close to full-size.
    In the end fighting is fucking stupid, but it gets their pussies’ wet. An allusion to be able to fulfill serious violence has an undeniable allure to females.
    These days I have way too much to lose, to get into a scrap at the bar or in public over trivial chest thumping or territory claiming inherent to our species. However, under certain circumstances or just a few shots of whiskey, any logic or rationale rolls out the window. I also know too many people that you wouldn’t suspect who pack and are willing to use it, so I tend to avoid false bravado.

    To the guy above me, hats off to you for taking an ass whooping out of self-respect. Death before dishonor….Good bouncers are some of the best dudes in the world. But too many bouncers act like that asshole, and assert themselves on someone who they know they can handle, kinda like the cop who was a nerd and is righting it by going on a power trip.

    So yea, physical violence or the willingness to engage in it is a panty dropper. But let’s be real, the majority of it is just posturing. And I am not worried about the loud mouth talkin smack, the one to be concerned with is the crazy eyed dude circling you or your friend. When the shit gets going our genes and evolution kicks in, and for 99.5% of the population, training goes out the window. Most people can learn how to throw a punch, but you cannot teach the ability to take one.

    To the naysayers who think it is just a fistfight, I guess you’ve never seen someone be stabbed or curbed. Violence gets out of hand quickly unless it is just true one-on-one may the better man win, which rarely happens these days. I’ve seen too many mob beatings and someone going to the trunk for back-up in my short time on the planet.

    I think that the willingness to escalate the violence is just a function of our hindbrains and our genes, added to the experience of situational violence…which is why I advocate situational awareness. You better know where you are and what you are getting into when you do.

    As an aside Rollo, your lead in is a dead giveaway to some form of Tae Kwon Do or Karate…competitive sparring/sparring for points is the raise, with the kick to the head being the tell. The fact that you admitted to having your ass handed to you plenty means you did actually train and push yourself, because if it was just a McDojo you’d never have had the pleasure of humility. The majority of the best fighters I’ve ever met actually are humble, because they have taken their lumps and know when it is on the line they can dish it out.

    I think the best attitude to have and exude is: I don’t want to start a fight, but I’ll sure as hell finish it.

    I’ll leave you with my qualifying anecdote. My wresting training partner in middle and high school and his older brother were badass wrestlers and general rough necks. Unfortunately they grew up in a classic carolina redneck trailer, with chickens running around and plenty of legitimate child abuse. They are both doing hard time now for a murder kidnapping over a girl. The older was rumored to have killed someone in high school…despite both being ugly as hell and dim as doornails, they always had girlfriends and were routinely getting laid by about 14.

  • Breeze

    Some low trash bastard punched me in the mouth and his prole slut was kissing him when the cops arrested him. The next day i have a smashed mouth and i am getting checked out by classier girls who only know me as intelligent and reserved.
    Point: prole girls like over the top thugs but classier girls liklike the gentleman who can handle himself (as they assumed

  • Breeze

    Meant to say: classier girls like gentleman who can handle themselves (as they assumed i was from how nonchant i was about a busted lip)

  • YaReally

    lol never gotten into a fight in all my years of pickup.

    I’ve talked my way out of a lot of possible altercations. It’s a combination of massive frame control (“it’s not possible that this situation will result in violence, that’s just not an outcome that exists, sorry”) and general alpha dominance.

    I’m not a big guy or anything, I just understand the social dynamics behind why guys fight. Most of the time it’s out of insecurity. You just match his mental state, pace him, then lead it into a calmer state. It’s like bringing a hyper party girl’s energy down, you match her high energy, pace it with her, then lead it down to a lower energy you’re more comfortable with.

    Violence is surface-level, like money. Break violence down and what is it? Self-expression (“I’m displaying all the rage I feel right now, and I don’t care what anyone thinks or if it’s illegal!!!”), dominance (“I’m gonna make this guy my bitch!”), self-assuredness (“10 guys? Fuck it I’ll take you all on!!!”), the ability to protect the people around him (“stay away from my girl!!”), a willingness to act (“come at me bro lets do this!!”)…

    What do those attributes of violence all boil down to? That magic word: Confidence. :) no one who goes into a fight un-confident and expecting to lose.

    So as a guy who likes having all his teeth, how do you get the same reaction without the actual swinging of fists? Are there ways you can verbally or with your body language display self-expression, dominance, self-assuredness, the ability to protect the people around you, a willingness to act, etc?

    Yes, of course. Violence is simply the fastest/easiest route to displaying those things so most men, especially when a mixture of alcohol courage and female attention/rejection are involved, resort to it. It’s like a girl-next-door type who wants to get laid putting on a push-up bra and a slutty outfit. It’s the fastest/easiest way of displaying the same attributes that the girl who’s not dressed as slutty but naturally oozes sex appeal displays.

    I wonder if anyone will understand this post lol this is a pretty deep concept in pickup but the ramifications of understanding it are pretty widespread. It’s the explanation for why some short guys can get laid while others let their height hold them back (the short ones who get laid display the same confidence-based attributes that we associate with tall height (power, respect from others, ability to protect loved ones, etc) thru other means). It’s why some poor guys can get laid by the same quality girls a rich guy is getting (displaying the same confidence-based attributes we assoaciate with being wealthy).

    It’s again why I stress that a lot of what actions or physical objects people think are “attraction triggers” are still people looking at the surface level and not breaking it down far enough to really get at the core of the psychology that’s going on and that’s why responses to articles like this read like “i kicked this guys ass once and got a BJ!” but then the next guy is “I purposely didn’t kick this guys ass once and got a BJ!” and once girl goes “I get so turned on when a guy is covered in blood” and another girl goes “my guy once handled this situation without fighting and I was so turned on at how he dominated those violent meatheads” and we add all these “it has to be in the ring, street brawls are unbecoming” and “it has to be on the street and you have to not be the instigator” nuances.

    When you get conflicting and confusing opinions like that it’s time to break the concept down deeper until the reactions are consistent. Ie – “standing up with confident posture is attractive” or “expressing yourself authentically is attractive”

    This is the process of analyzing social dynamics and this is the secret to why PUAs advanced the knowledge of seduction so quickly. We kept breaking concepts down further and further to their core. And even now we continue to do it (the guys at RSD are leaders in this but other seduction companies are heading that way too). Before we understood that a neg worked. Then we understood WHY a neg works. Now we understand why you can get the same reaction you get from a neg without using a neg.

    But maybe I’m just standin in the rain talkin to myself lol

  • T & A Man

    Funny this topic arose Rollo,

    Taking the red-pill about a year ago now, and I don’t prescribe to the alpha/beta’ framework, more along with your stated ‘positive masculinity’, but in that time I have observed distinct changes with my ego, my instincts.

    I travel public transport every day to and from work, and I have tolerated dickhead behaviour much less. In fact I am prone to confront it. Well recently I encountered a complete dickhead and it escalated to a brawl. The outcome was by the end I was all over him, size advantage really, not ability.

    Following this however I tuned into my emotions regarding the event. Typically in the past I had wanted to shun physical confrontations with overt adrenalin shaking my hands and such, but here, I would be hard pressed to say that I didn’t enjoy it. I got a bloodied nose and some swelling, but I didn’t really get hurt, and the outcome provided me with some lessons in approaching similar outcomes in the future.

    I did feel some semblence of ‘positive, masculine’ feelings. To be honest, I feel this was detected by women around me and it would match what you have descibed here.

  • LionSoul

    I understand your comparison. Yet, violence is not the easier way for most men to show dominance, because most men are pussies who refuse to hit a gym or learn how to fight. Fighting = pain, and most people want to avoid pain. Actually, the easiest way is your route, because all it requires is manipulative words. There is a reason why the strongest in the animal circle is the Alpha. He’s the one willing to take a hit and has a line that should never be crossed. His aura shows that.

    I have some friends who faught for a living, and usually try to avoid fighting in public places all together–the best battle is the one never faught, deal. Yet, once you’ve disrespected their personal territory or crossed that line, they would beat you to an once of your life. They have REAL confidence. Why? Because in their minds they know they could kill somebody of they wanted with their bare hands–talk about animal instincts.

    But to be honest with you, nobody ever got that far when I went to the club with them. You say it’s because of confidence. I think it’s because they live a life that most men only watch on TV. They’re jacked, they have scars, they have a death stare… people know not to mess with them.

    Pretending is nice and all, but even PUAs know not to tread on a real alpha’s territory. You know, the one who could strangle you till your head pops. You’d probably not even engage.

    That’s the difference between the keyboard jockey definition of Alpha, and real life.

    One uses seduction techniques to create a false identity of dominance.
    One is just naturally dominant because he is physically/emotionally dominant. I guess you would call him a natural?

    Put the first one in a situation where he has to fight the second one, and see who actually will screw the girl at the end of the night.

  • Breeze

    welcome to the net where everyone is a tenth degree blackbelt and mma fighter. Ive worked as a bouncer and have trained diff fighting styles before and i still hit the ground after being blindsided by a guy half my size. I was lucky i didnt get my head kicked in in the middle of some park. Of course, reangd

  • Breeze

    Reading these comments i imagine everyone here would have gone chuck norris on the gang and then fucked all their women. Fighting in competitions, cages and sparring is nothing like real fighting. Secondly, its one thing to go face to face with some wannabe tough guy beta but quite another to come across a drugged up criminal with no hesitation who gets off on fighting. Too many try hard tough guys who read roissy and think fighting is like it is on the tv or in the dojo are going to get seriously injured by the true crazy, dont give a fuck thugs that there upper middle class lives have so far sheltered them from

  • a simpler place in time

    Rollo,

    This post ties in to a darker aspect of War Brides. Women, living in the visceral, have a difficult time extrapolating out how far violence can escalate. Their view of combat tends to be based on a one-on-one mate competition facsimile. This is why sports individual violent sports like MMA are such a massive draw with women, it plugs directly into the hypergamous hardware. Team based violent sports tend bore women; the existing groupies being enamored by a player’s fame. They’d rather bed the QB, Goalie, or 50 goal scorer than the defensive lineman or checking line enforcer.

    This over simplified concept of violence is also how skilled propagandists can get a woman to goad her man to march off to his death. How many Southern Belles cheered their boys on to teach those damn Yanks a lesson and be back in time for harvest? or British women who shamed their men for not wanting to beat back the Hun? And lest we forget that women were strongest backing demographic for the man who fed Germany into the Soviet Maw. This “with it or on it” strategy was once a win both ways for women, they either acquired new resources via conquest or were absorbed by the victor as a war bride. Agriculture and industrialization have largely stamped out any of its benefits, but that doesn’t prevent it from lingering around.

    Another sad case of biological evolution failing to keep pace with societal evolution.

  • xsplat

    This “with it or on it” strategy was once a win both ways for women, they either acquired new resources via conquest or were absorbed by the victor as a war bride.

    He he he. Good point.

    Let’s you and him fight. I win the victor.

  • dailysatanist

    do you have a video of that perhaps, Guerrero?

  • Bj

    What if you’re agressor is a chicks brother who gets in your face and as a result gets his face smashed? Spare him or shoot hands? Or, as a personal example from only a week ago, what if the agressor is the boyfriend of a hottie’s sister? How’s the chick going to react overtly, and do u think this will differ from what she’s feeling covertly?

  • YaReally

    “Actually, the easiest way is your route, because all it requires is manipulative words.”

    I said resorting to violence was the easy route, not WINNING a fight. ;) Swinging your fist at anything in front of you is easy but you still might get your ass kicked. Staring down a huge jacked up drunk angry beefcake wearing an Affliction shirt who thinks you “wronged” him and calmly talking him down with your words is very difficult.

    “Yet, once you’ve disrespected their personal territory or crossed that line, they would beat you to an once of your life.”

    You don’t cross that territory when you have social calibration and an awareness of social dynamics. That’s sort of my point. I don’t get into fights not because guys don’t get mad at me, but because I see it coming and can diffuse or turn it around and befriend them before they swing or before I cross their boundaries to the point where they swing.

    “You say it’s because of confidence. I think it’s because they live a life that most men only watch on TV. They’re jacked, they have scars, they have a death stare… people know not to mess with them.”

    Then why do guys who are jacked, have scars, and a death stare still get into fights? Why are biker gangs and gangster thugs getting into fights regularly? This is the same argument as “if you’re good looking or have money you’ll get all the girls, you say it’s confidence but I say it’s looks”. It doesn’t hold up because there are plenty of guys who aren’t good looking or don’t have money who get the girls and plenty of guys with looks/money who don’t (witness half the crowd at a PUA seminar).

    Again, when you get conflicting results like that, you have to break it down beyond what you’re looking at until the results are consistent.

    “Pretending is nice and all,”

    lol if you had any idea the things I’ve done…I speak from experience.

    “but even PUAs know not to tread on a real alpha’s territory. You know, the one who could strangle you till your head pops. You’d probably not even engage.”

    Of course not. The win if you can avoid engaging is to avoid engaging.

    “One uses seduction techniques to create a false identity of dominance.”

    It’s only false while you’re learning. Over time your identity solidifies. This is how taking on new behaviors and mindsets works.

    “Put the first one in a situation where he has to fight the second one, and see who actually will screw the girl at the end of the night.”

    Been in this situ a ton of times. Stay calm, speak authoritatively (“We’re cool, man.”), hold the frame (“There’s no trouble tonight.” it’s very “These are not the droids you’re looking for” lol), keep eye contact, agree with him if he’s accusing you of something (“Yes, I was hitting on your girl. My bad, I didn’t realize you guys were together. You’re a lucky guy, you must have to deal with this shit every night, sorry man. We’re cool.”), act as though nothing violent can happen, calm him down, befriend him, get him to qualify himself to you (“Man, I was nervous there, you must train MMA or something hey?”), build rapport/comfort (“Ya my buddy does that, fights in the cage and stuff, I’m too tiny for that shit lol”).

    From there you feel the vibe out. If he’s starting to like you, befriend him. I’ve befriended guys I’ve taken girls from, and guys who’s girlfriends/wives I’ve made out with. Next thing you know you’re both doing shots together.

    If he’s still got his guard up with you, befriend his friends. The social pressure of other people liking you (especially girls in his group) forces him to chill.

    If he’ll never like you ever in a million years, but you’ve calmed him down, you can just wish him a good night and eject and calmly walk away.

    If he was just trying to intimidate you because you were both after the same girl, once he qualifies to you, you use your body language and turn yourself and the girl slightly so he’s angled behind your shoulders a bit and looks like the 3rd wheel and then you ignore that he exists (no talking to him, no responding to anything he says, no acknowledging him) and spike your girl’s buying temperature a bunch so she’s giggling away and you two are having basically a “private” conversation with him stuck standing there feeling like a tool. The social pressure of feeling like everyone is watching him makes him walk away…he started to feel like you were buddies and he’s calmed down so he won’t swing at you, he basically becomes the odd man out like when your wingman is talking to a girl who likes him and neither of them acknowledge you so you wander off to get a drink or piss.

    All of these methods display social dominance. You’ve taken a guy who would knock any other guy’s head off and completely handled him. The girls can tell who the alpha in that situation is.

    But it took me like 4 paragraphs to describe just the basic common situations and how to handle them, and there are a ton more. That’s why I say this isn’t an easy skill to learn. You’re not just “saying some words”, there’s a shit-load of social dynamics going on that you have to be aware of and know how to manipulate and adapt to.

    I’ve had a guy right on the edge of killing me (I was sitting leaning against a cement wall and he was a jacked up angry latino White Knight guy who saw me fingering the girl he had a crush on, he was standing in front of me with his leg wound up ready to kick my head into the wall and there was no way I could’ve physically stopped him from doing it). Held the frame and calmed him down enough to walk away (I ran like a bitch once I got around the corner lol). Txt message from her 15 min later asking me to come over, fucked her in the alley behind his house while he was inside drinking with her friend.

    This is a whole sub-section of study in the oldschool PUA community. Google for Tyler Durden’s old articles on handling AMOGs.

    Now your automatic response to my reply will no doubt be something like “lol whatever that’s just keyboard fantasy. If you cross my super MMA badass scarred death stare buddy’s line he will kill you instantly no matter WHAT you say, you can’t calm him down and befriend him like some purring kitten.”

    …but if that was your response, it would only show that you haven’t spent enough time out in the field and been in or seen these situations and haven’t done or seen someone do what I’m describing in those situations.

  • YaReally

    “Secondly, its one thing to go face to face with some wannabe tough guy beta but quite another to come across a drugged up criminal with no hesitation who gets off on fighting.”

    Ya, I have the skills to diffuse most situations, but I still wouldn’t put myself in stupid situations. Like a girl wearing a short skirt into an alleyway in the bad part of town at night, like, take a cab. I used to hit up biker bars and gangster bars just for the practice, and hit on girls with obvious boyfriends, etc. (Iearning how to handle different environments and people/classes) but now I’m old and I’d rather just steer clear of most of that if I can avoid it.

    No one puts down their blue martini to fist-fight in a swank lounge lol

    …well that’s not true either. But you get my point.

    Part of social awareness and calibration is diffusing situations waaaay before they escalate. It’s like Ceaser the Dog Whisperer says, react to the situation when the dog is at a 1/10, don’t wait till he’s at a 10/10.

  • YaReally

    “Women, living in the visceral, have a difficult time extrapolating out how far violence can escalate.”

    Ya, a good point. This is why girls will do stupid shit like play drunk guys off one another, start drama on purpose, invite mutliple guys out to the same place, get in a guy’s face and expect her BF to step in and sort out the mess she makes, not delete her texting history with you when she has a boyfriend/husband, text you while sitting beside him, etc.

    Like she doesn’t understand that those situations can escalate to death, paralysis for life, get shot, get a beer bottle over your head 3 months later when the guy recognizes you again, bang your head against the sidewalk and now you’re mentally retarded, etc.

    So if your believe violence is stupid, and she believes violence is cool, and you get into a fight to impress her, are you really following your own beliefs or are you following hers? Does an alpha live by his rules or by the rules of others? etc. etc.

  • LionSoul

    “lol if you had any idea the things I’ve done…I speak from experience.”

    No matter what you’ve done, you’re still a beta at heart. You even discussing ‘strategies’ and PUA tactics just makes you aware of it, which allows you to pretend under this civilized society.

    “Of course not. The win if you can avoid engaging is to avoid engaging.”

    At least you know your place. I give you props on that.

    Most of the middle post sounds like a bunch of try hard for some slit. Whatever floats your boat I guess.

    “I’ve had a guy right on the edge of killing me (I was sitting leaning against a cement wall and he was a jacked up angry latino White Knight guy who saw me fingering the girl he had a crush on, he was standing in front of me with his leg wound up ready to kick my head into the wall and there was no way I could’ve physically stopped him from doing it). Held the frame and calmed him down enough to walk away (I ran like a bitch once I got around the corner lol). Txt message from her 15 min later asking me to come over, fucked her in the alley behind his house while he was inside drinking with her friend.”

    One. The guy was a bitch. No self respecting MAN would fight over a crush, especially an easy slut that got finger banged by you. If anything, he would thank you mentally for spotting that she’s so easy. Two, if he were really ‘alpha’ he would have beat your ass before you got a word in edge wise. And of course you ran once you turned the corner.

    Lol @ you talking about field experience. Yeah man, you’re totally the king of ‘game’. I bow in your everlasting greatness and wonderful story telling.

  • LionSoul

    “Too many try hard tough guys who read roissy and think fighting is like it is on the tv or in the dojo are going to get seriously injured by the true crazy, dont give a fuck thugs that there upper middle class lives have so far sheltered them from.”

    Co-fucking-sign.

    Most dudes who ever really got into a fight knows not to use their fists to punch somebody in the face anyways. That’s how you break you hand and make it ineffective. Most dudes who know how to fight in public situations rely in takedowns/submissions. Yet, you don’t learn that on TV.

    Listen to this man. If you don’t know how to really fight, learn from bouncers. They’re probably one of the best people who can teach you how to defend yourself.

  • LionSoul

    I don’t really post often on the comment section ’cause I just read them for entertainment. Yet, I must give you props for understanding that ‘game’ is not the only thing that helps the women become attracted to you. A lot of my ‘PUA’ acquaintances disagree with me when I say that working out, getting a career job, and making something out of your life helps. Mad respect for sticking with your opinion. You are one of the few rational posters.

  • dc1000

    the best part about training hard, sparring and actually having been in fights is that you know how to diffuse them. a stern look, calm demeanor and lack of fear will usually end any conflict before it starts.

    thats the part ‘mature’ chicks like the most

  • democratsarefascists

    Excellent advice on the “don’t go for the face” comment. One of the lessons of Krav Maga is that a skull – basically a single dense bone with sutures in it – is a hard thing to crack, especially with a fist, which has many small bones, and when broken will take the fight right out of you. Go for the soft areas, the gut when it’s not expected, the nuts even when it is, because your opponent will be knocked off stance in defense, the eyes are good, too. Fight like a chick, sort of. And if you want to obey the rules, don’t be surprised when your opponent breaks them. Remember, he fucked with you and started it, breaking the first rule and throwing the rulebook out the window. Break him fast, then give him reminders never to do it again. If he pulls a weapon, cripple him for life.

  • Bj

    1 question, your post is golden, have you written a book or a blog or anything

  • emmatheemo

    What about women who think men look hot when beaten up? I always wondered what that could mean (maybe nothing, but it’s worth a shot asking).

  • xsplat

    Yes, it’s funny how some bloggers will in one breath expound on the value of pre-selection, but in another come back to the position that all attraction reduces down to confidence.

    I’m sure the bias is some sort of ego protection. We build up mental maps that we inhabit, as if the map was our personality, and any attack of our map is a direct attack to our being.

    I’ve lately been surprised to see some respected writers fall prey to this very human condition.

    So yeah, I’ve taken it on myself to kill that meme. Many of my blog posts lately have been about that. There are many attractive traits. That used to be obvious common sense.

  • YaReally

    Those things absolutely help…..you to become confident. Which is the attraction trigger.

  • YaReally

    Nope. Anything I write is just a complication of PUA knowledge that’s already available around the net, and backed up by experience testing it out.

  • YaReally

    “No matter what you’ve done, you’re still a beta at heart.”
    +
    “One. The guy was a bitch”

    So is that your thing? When something conflicts with your reality, you just throw an insulting label on it and write it off so you don’t have to consider it anymore?

    Have you purposely gone out and tried to pick girls up from mixed sets of guys & girls? At night? In the day? Have you sat down with a couple at their dinner table while they were on a date and macked on the girl? Have you picked up in a biker bar? Have you cut thru a circle of jacked up MMA looking guys to hit on the one girl in their group? Have you gone to environments where you clearly don’t belong and tried to take girls off the guys there who think the girls belong to them? Have you had jealous guys threaten you or make lies up about their relationship with the girl and diffused and plowed thru the situation? Have you been followed out of a bar by drunk guys wanting to kick your ass? Have you had guys aggressively hit on your girl while your arm is around her?

    Cause I have. That’s why I don’t say there’s nothing attractive about violence, I say there are underlying concept behind why it SEEMS to be attractive.

    “Most of the middle post sounds like a bunch of try hard for some slit.”

    Oh it is. Most girls aren’t worth going to that much effort for. But just cause flying into space is hard it doesn’t mean the science behind space travel is bogus.

    ” No self respecting MAN would fight over a crush”
    +
    ” if he were really ‘alpha’ he would have beat your ass before you got a word in edge wise.”

    So which is it? Or do you have conflicting definitions of what an alpha man is because you haven’t been around a variety of people? For the record I have buddies who do MMA. Some of them get girls, some of them don’t.

    “especially an easy slut that got finger banged by you”

    lol will your next sentence be “that game stuff only works on drunk easy college sluts?”. Seriously do you even go out more than once a week?

    “And of course you ran once you turned the corner.”

    He who screams and runs away lives to scream another day. You have a very cartoon version of what an alpha male is in your head. I wish you the best of luck with that, but understand that it WILL hold you back in pickup. Approach with “what will happen?” not “this is what’s supposed to happen!”

    My knowledge doesn’t just come from reading shit on the Internet. It comes from gaming hard for years and experiencing and testing the concepts in action first hand.

    Guys who go out a lot relate to my posts. unfortunately very few men in manosphere blog comment sections go out and approach girls and put themselves in tough circumstances regularly. It seems like most guys commenting go out once or twice a week at most, with their boys, get drunk, and talk to an average girl or two who give them blatant invites to approach.

    In the old days of pickup you couldn’t even ask “do you guys think this would work?” because the automatic response from everyone would be “go try it out and see. Try it on 10 girls at night. Try it on 10 in the day. Try it on different types of girls. Try it when you’re in a shitty mood. Try it in a good mood. Tweak it a little and try that the same way.”. And we DID.

  • YaReally

    “Now your automatic response to my reply will no doubt be something like “lol whatever that’s just keyboard fantasy. If you cross my super MMA badass scarred death stare buddy’s line he will kill you instantly no matter WHAT you say, you can’t calm him down and befriend him like some purring kitten.””

    “if he were really ‘alpha’ he would have beat your ass before you got a word in edge wise.”

    For the record that’s exactly what I said you’d say lol

  • Mr. Roach

    I was on a first date one time with a really cute secretary from work. She was in fact from another office. We had drinks. Smoked cigarettes. And were winding up the evening at an outdoor cafe. A derelict homeless guy approached us. I gave him a death look, said “keep on moving” or something similarly direct and rude, and he left, looking a little sheepish. She looked like she was ready to melt. She even said–which sounded like music to my ears–“I really liked the way you handled that.” Needless to say, things turned out well.

    Dealing with aggressive guys who your woman would normally be quite scared of seems the best way to do this. Having a concealed carry license ain’t a bad part of the plan either.

  • Mr. Roach

    I’m reminded of the lengthy discussion in Francis Fukuyama’s book the End of History. He basically says, until recently, all societies were warrior aristocracies, with a small cohort of warriors basically oppressing/protecting everyone else of the farming/beta variety. The key factor of the nobility/warrior class was its willingness to face death; they were willling to die in order to get the respect and honor they felt they deserved, and this is probably why violence and alpha traits are still desirable. Way back when those guys were the richest, most powerful, and most respected by everyone, male and female.

  • Deepcov3r

    You obviously have never worked years or decades to obtain a professional license. The licensing boards are all feminist cunts.

    Before you judge or question “I guess.” someone with real professional accomplisments with your “street cred” values, maybe you’d like to share what occupation you do?

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    You either left out the part where your socialskills/subconsciousness/whatever allowed you to pick out weaklings with girlfriends or you’re just full of shit(or far more sneaky than i can imagine).

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