Violence

There’s an interesting dynamic with regards to women and male vs. male violence. I have some interesting stories that address this.

When I was dating my wife I was a blue belt in [a martial art that will go nameless in order to avoid the inevitable debate on which is ‘the best’] and was just getting into competitive sparring. As a date idea I once asked her if she would come with me to Sacramento for a tournament and later we could hit a sushi bar I knew of down there. Instead of the standard “oh I think violence is just terrible/juvenile/men with insecurities stuff” line I would expect from 90% of women, and to my surprise, she enthusiastically agreed. When it came time for my sparring events I beat everyone in my pool that day and placed first for my belt class – trophy in hand. I don’t say this to gloss myself (since I generally had my ass handed to me pretty regularly), but I just happened to win this day and I even took out the last guy with a 3 point head kick and unintentionally drawing a little blood from his nose in the process. To make a long story short, we never made it to the sushi bar that evening – we were too busy fucking like rabbits back at the motel room, she wouldn’t even let me shower! My girlfriend (now wife) worked me 7 way to Tuesday in bed and this is still some of the most memorable sex I’ve had with her.

Next story – As some of you know, I used to be the art director for a major casino in Nevada. We had on two occasions a King of the Cage (UFC/MMA early incarnation) event there. In both instances the women in my department would go nuts over this. Most of these guys are in very good shape physically, but the fighting dynamic is what puts them into a real frenzy. These women would look forward for months to these events, not because of the sport of fighting, but their attraction to the personas of the fighters we did promos and PR with (“I’d jump so-and-so and do him all day, etc.”). Understand that none of these women had any idea of what these guy’s personalities were like, they just lusted after the idea of what they were.

At the last event, a group of guys who were the boyfriends of a few of these women, went to the King of the Cage matches, and got into a street fight in the parking lot later after the event was over on their way back to their cars. When the girls related this story to the rest of us the next day, they emphatically decried how shocked and disappointed they were with their boyfriends for resorting to violence. They then began characterizing ‘men’ as just big children, and ‘brutish’ and ‘typical’.

Now, do you see the contradiction here? There is a definite sexual attraction to a man who can ‘handle himself’ by women. I don’t think I need to reiterate my posts on the attraction of the Alpha thug appeal. For the most part women will ardently deny this to no end so as not to seem to condone violence, while at the same time reward the man, the soldier, etc. who can take care of ‘business’ – who goes off to war – with her intimacy and sexuality so long as he fits her mental archetype of the guy who deserves it. Even if you disagree with this assessment, you have to see the paradox and the confusion it creates for a man. Be a gentleman, but don’t be a gentle man. And again, this all comes back to her intrinsic need for security and ‘strength’ in a man, while at the same time verbally denying she is attracted to it. Society tells her she should be disgusted with the man who punches the guy who disses her at the bar, but in practice, she takes the guy home and fucks his brains out or fantasizes about the hot fighter in the ring who would do the same.

A capacity for at least measured violence in a Man stimulates a woman’s desire of fantasy, sexual submission, physicality and security.

One thing I’ve learned about fighting is you don’t go looking for shit, because you’ll find it. Not only that, but if it seems like you’re looking for it, women think you’re an automatic asshole and/or are using that bravado as an overt message to directly to trigger this appeal for her. But if you’re careful, and the opportunity presents itself in such a way that you end up the hero, and whether or not you get your ass kicked, chicks will give it up faster than for any other reason or motivation. If your motives are even peripherally noble, the situation allows for indirect social proof and you actually have the confidence to put your face in the path of someone’s fist, regardless of circumstance or even the outcome nothing spreads a woman’s legs faster. However, you have to be seen as positive, not the aggressor.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Jordan
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Its amazing how violence plays into their hindbrain. My ex-wife was one of those. I could do unspeakablely violent things to her in bed, but if I ever got mad at her or started raising a hand in anger (never to be brought down), suddenly I’m an evil asshole. I swear it was easier to just raid villages and toss the chicks over your shoulder.

MiGHOW
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Intensive care game….not too sure on this.

Its a very fine line these days as we all know violence can escalate very quickly into real potential for serious injury. Once you are into a melee its hard to predict outcomes.

Supervised and refereed sports type activities absolutely agree, outside of that and in general, discretion is the better part of valor. The potential of being manipulated into white knighting is a risk to consider.

democratsarefascists
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Of course that anti-violence pose is just that…a crock. That became apparent to me in my youth, the first time I got into a tussle with a drunken idiot while my girlfriend was looking on. I put his face into a table. The second we got home and in the door, she instantly pulled down her pants and we went at it. Hell, women watch boxing and UFC and get visibly excited.

dragnet
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Great post. I weighed in on violence and male hierarchies at Roissy’s awhile back:

http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2010/04/16/greatest-pimp-slap-ever/#comment-166174

The only thing I would add is that women react better to violence when it is in controlled venue that confers high status—like a boxing match or a UFC fight. A few guys brawling in an alley doesn’t cut it.

Flatnose
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Brawling is so undignified for the mature man…sometimes though action does need to be taken but only as a last resort. Saying that on my first date with my wife I ended up in a brawl when I was sat down and attacked from behind. An elbow to the groin ended the problem…I wonder if she made the decision then?

dc1000
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as an accomplished fighter, i can tell you that all women love it. even the vegan pacifists, they love the idea that you can mangle and mash some (all) other dudes and them in turn. my girlfriend now always says that she loves the idea that i could destroy her without blinking, but i simply choose not to.

as i get a little older here, i’m debating retiring from fighting (undefeated). its a young man’s game. but the pure unadulterated alphaness of it all is hard to let go of…

Wudang
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What is the effect when you loose sparring matches Rollo? Still positive because the whole thing is arousing and you are being brave and tough or bad because you lost?

And what about a woman you dating finding out you do martial arts, especially one where you actually do full contact sparring like thai boxing?

dc1000
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muay thai is my game. i can tell you that sparring and coming back from the gym with stories of punching dudes in the face works wonders.

if you come home with a black eye, even better

losing sucks in any situation, but i think as long as you handle it well, its still only a positive.

(not that i would know about losing!)

democratsarefascists
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democratsarefascists
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MMA and all martial arts are good, but you guys should also try Krav Maga. It’s not all the poses and tradition that women like, it’s the hitting. smile Fast, furious and just frightening enough to turn them on.

Rollo Tomassi
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At the risk of going ‘Fight Club’ here, I think it’s really about a willingness to get into harms way – most guys you know probably wont. I’ve taken some pretty good shots in my day, but even when you spit blood and lose there’s a lovable acceptance for a guy with the balls to get up and put himself in that position to begin with. I think it’s a confirmation of tamping down your fear – and that’s always an Alpha indicator in spite of the outcome . With very few notable exceptions, women tend to be insulated from… Read more »

Guerrerro
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Even seen the face of a woman that a man has just killed another over? Angellic fullfillment.

Jon
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There was a story of some french guy cutting off the penis of the guy his girlfriend was having an affair with. The girl went back to the guy who hacked off his rivals penis……

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/9131384/French-man-explains-how-he-cut-off-love-rivals-penis.html

Flatnose
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This one always puzzles me…I found myself in a peculiar position the other day at a bar. I was talking to a female friend at a bar when this idiot at my side tried to cut in by high fiving her, When she ignored him he took out his anger on me and started calling me a c#*t. If I get done for assault can I lose my job, I am a mental health professional. Rather than react into his frame I went for the middle ground, stood my ground, did not alter my body language except raised my chin,… Read more »

Flatnose
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Edited for grammar! This one always puzzles me…I found myself in a peculiar position the other day at a bar. I was talking to a female friend at a bar when this idiot at my side tried to cut in by high fiving her, When she ignored him he took out his anger on me and started calling me a c#*t. If I get done for assault I CAN lose my job, I am a mental health professional. Rather than react into his frame I went for the middle ground, stood my ground, did not alter my body language except… Read more »

Sam Spade
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Your instincts are correct. Maintaining composure will rarely if ever cost you points. However if the guy starts something physically, then you are bound to subdue him. I’d say you handled it well, considering bars don’t care who started what, they will throw you both out or have you arrested. Remember Patrick Swayze in Road House – he never looked for violence!

Stingray
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I can’t speak for other women, but I find the man that can take care of business, but takes the course you described more attractive than a guy who will just throw down. There is something about that look in their eye that says, “If you wanna take this further, I’m game, but you WILL be bloodied” that is amazing. What is even more amazing is watching the other guy back down after seeing that look. It’s powerful.

democratsarefascists
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I don’t know, man..
He outright challenged you and now he feels free to do it again, when he’s clearly a nutless dipstick. He feels like he won. It sucks that a job and this economy keeps you from breaking him, but it’s understandable. I guess.

democratsarefascists
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It’s the “back down” part that matters. It has to be VERY clear, absolutely clear, that the man who chooses not to fuck him up is letting him live and is dominant. If I choose that course and that guy ever eyeballs me again, I will fuck him up.

democratsarefascists
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democratsarefascists
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There are perhaps three women in the whole world who would be worthy of that. No, I don’t know who they are.

democratsarefascists
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For me, that’s the whole question. Your fear. Fear of what? A little pain or a busted lip? Think of the cost if you don’t stand up and the potential benefits of being undeniably the alpha. You know how few fights ever wind up in court? Come on. The cops don’t care. They’re just there to mop up the blood and if you’re smart, you’re already gone.

democratsarefascists
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ESPECIALLY the Vegan pacifists and fem-lit majors.They’re also the ones that like getting choked and can’t come unless you pinch their nipples and pull their hair.

Hypocrites is what they are. They construct little rationalization barriers, (okay, you can treat me like that, but don’t call me “slave.”) but they kneel when you order them to.

Mike C
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Mike C
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Yup, I learned this in the year I spent bouncing in between professional cubicle jobs. The willingness to use measured violence is just another mindset, and definitely a tingle generator.

jimmy
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It could come back to covert and overt and the way women respond to both forms. If the circumstances seem in a roundabout way or covert – then its a leg opener. If it seems overt then it kills it for them. (no pun intended). I got into a fight on the way to work on a train once as the other guy was the one who picked it and I ended it – maybe a little to far as I punched him a number of times to the extent of braking the little bone in my hand into 4… Read more »

AW
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AW
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Timely post. As a matter of fact just this last weekend I was out at a club with some friends, got a bit too drunk (my mistake) and was dancing with/kissing girls (they were all with our group so no, it wasn’t his gf) all over the dance floor. Some giant nephilim dude gets in my face out of nowhere. I suspect his envy at my dance-floor game got the best of him? Still have no idea. Anyway I tried to talk to him for a sec to keep things chill but then he started pushing me so I swung… Read more »

Diabolical SouthPaw
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Oh Rollo now you’ve gone and done it…the end all to true alphaness…violence. The true contest of man vs. man with the superior being the victor, what more could a woman ask for than the guy who can kick everyone’s ass in the room. You nailed one maxim of a scrap which is don’t go looking for shit unless you really want to find it. Rollins said straight out if you want a fight you can find it within the first five minutes in public, and that is what he did for two years. But the maxim that overrides looking… Read more »

Breeze
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Some low trash bastard punched me in the mouth and his prole slut was kissing him when the cops arrested him. The next day i have a smashed mouth and i am getting checked out by classier girls who only know me as intelligent and reserved.
Point: prole girls like over the top thugs but classier girls liklike the gentleman who can handle himself (as they assumed

Breeze
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Meant to say: classier girls like gentleman who can handle themselves (as they assumed i was from how nonchant i was about a busted lip)

YaReally
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lol never gotten into a fight in all my years of pickup. I’ve talked my way out of a lot of possible altercations. It’s a combination of massive frame control (“it’s not possible that this situation will result in violence, that’s just not an outcome that exists, sorry”) and general alpha dominance. I’m not a big guy or anything, I just understand the social dynamics behind why guys fight. Most of the time it’s out of insecurity. You just match his mental state, pace him, then lead it into a calmer state. It’s like bringing a hyper party girl’s energy… Read more »

T & A Man
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Funny this topic arose Rollo, Taking the red-pill about a year ago now, and I don’t prescribe to the alpha/beta’ framework, more along with your stated ‘positive masculinity’, but in that time I have observed distinct changes with my ego, my instincts. I travel public transport every day to and from work, and I have tolerated dickhead behaviour much less. In fact I am prone to confront it. Well recently I encountered a complete dickhead and it escalated to a brawl. The outcome was by the end I was all over him, size advantage really, not ability. Following this however… Read more »

LionSoul
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I understand your comparison. Yet, violence is not the easier way for most men to show dominance, because most men are pussies who refuse to hit a gym or learn how to fight. Fighting = pain, and most people want to avoid pain. Actually, the easiest way is your route, because all it requires is manipulative words. There is a reason why the strongest in the animal circle is the Alpha. He’s the one willing to take a hit and has a line that should never be crossed. His aura shows that. I have some friends who faught for a… Read more »

Breeze
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welcome to the net where everyone is a tenth degree blackbelt and mma fighter. Ive worked as a bouncer and have trained diff fighting styles before and i still hit the ground after being blindsided by a guy half my size. I was lucky i didnt get my head kicked in in the middle of some park. Of course, reangd

Breeze
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Reading these comments i imagine everyone here would have gone chuck norris on the gang and then fucked all their women. Fighting in competitions, cages and sparring is nothing like real fighting. Secondly, its one thing to go face to face with some wannabe tough guy beta but quite another to come across a drugged up criminal with no hesitation who gets off on fighting. Too many try hard tough guys who read roissy and think fighting is like it is on the tv or in the dojo are going to get seriously injured by the true crazy, dont give… Read more »

a simpler place in time
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a simpler place in time
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Rollo, This post ties in to a darker aspect of War Brides. Women, living in the visceral, have a difficult time extrapolating out how far violence can escalate. Their view of combat tends to be based on a one-on-one mate competition facsimile. This is why sports individual violent sports like MMA are such a massive draw with women, it plugs directly into the hypergamous hardware. Team based violent sports tend bore women; the existing groupies being enamored by a player’s fame. They’d rather bed the QB, Goalie, or 50 goal scorer than the defensive lineman or checking line enforcer. This… Read more »

xsplat
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This “with it or on it” strategy was once a win both ways for women, they either acquired new resources via conquest or were absorbed by the victor as a war bride.

He he he. Good point.

Let’s you and him fight. I win the victor.

dailysatanist
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do you have a video of that perhaps, Guerrero?

Bj
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What if you’re agressor is a chicks brother who gets in your face and as a result gets his face smashed? Spare him or shoot hands? Or, as a personal example from only a week ago, what if the agressor is the boyfriend of a hottie’s sister? How’s the chick going to react overtly, and do u think this will differ from what she’s feeling covertly?

YaReally
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“Actually, the easiest way is your route, because all it requires is manipulative words.” I said resorting to violence was the easy route, not WINNING a fight. Swinging your fist at anything in front of you is easy but you still might get your ass kicked. Staring down a huge jacked up drunk angry beefcake wearing an Affliction shirt who thinks you “wronged” him and calmly talking him down with your words is very difficult. “Yet, once you’ve disrespected their personal territory or crossed that line, they would beat you to an once of your life.” You don’t cross that… Read more »

YaReally
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“Secondly, its one thing to go face to face with some wannabe tough guy beta but quite another to come across a drugged up criminal with no hesitation who gets off on fighting.” Ya, I have the skills to diffuse most situations, but I still wouldn’t put myself in stupid situations. Like a girl wearing a short skirt into an alleyway in the bad part of town at night, like, take a cab. I used to hit up biker bars and gangster bars just for the practice, and hit on girls with obvious boyfriends, etc. (Iearning how to handle different… Read more »

YaReally
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“Women, living in the visceral, have a difficult time extrapolating out how far violence can escalate.” Ya, a good point. This is why girls will do stupid shit like play drunk guys off one another, start drama on purpose, invite mutliple guys out to the same place, get in a guy’s face and expect her BF to step in and sort out the mess she makes, not delete her texting history with you when she has a boyfriend/husband, text you while sitting beside him, etc. Like she doesn’t understand that those situations can escalate to death, paralysis for life, get… Read more »

LionSoul
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“lol if you had any idea the things I’ve done…I speak from experience.” No matter what you’ve done, you’re still a beta at heart. You even discussing ‘strategies’ and PUA tactics just makes you aware of it, which allows you to pretend under this civilized society. “Of course not. The win if you can avoid engaging is to avoid engaging.” At least you know your place. I give you props on that. Most of the middle post sounds like a bunch of try hard for some slit. Whatever floats your boat I guess. “I’ve had a guy right on the… Read more »

LionSoul
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“Too many try hard tough guys who read roissy and think fighting is like it is on the tv or in the dojo are going to get seriously injured by the true crazy, dont give a fuck thugs that there upper middle class lives have so far sheltered them from.” Co-fucking-sign. Most dudes who ever really got into a fight knows not to use their fists to punch somebody in the face anyways. That’s how you break you hand and make it ineffective. Most dudes who know how to fight in public situations rely in takedowns/submissions. Yet, you don’t learn… Read more »

LionSoul
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I don’t really post often on the comment section ’cause I just read them for entertainment. Yet, I must give you props for understanding that ‘game’ is not the only thing that helps the women become attracted to you. A lot of my ‘PUA’ acquaintances disagree with me when I say that working out, getting a career job, and making something out of your life helps. Mad respect for sticking with your opinion. You are one of the few rational posters.

dc1000
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the best part about training hard, sparring and actually having been in fights is that you know how to diffuse them. a stern look, calm demeanor and lack of fear will usually end any conflict before it starts.

thats the part ‘mature’ chicks like the most

democratsarefascists
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Excellent advice on the “don’t go for the face” comment. One of the lessons of Krav Maga is that a skull – basically a single dense bone with sutures in it – is a hard thing to crack, especially with a fist, which has many small bones, and when broken will take the fight right out of you. Go for the soft areas, the gut when it’s not expected, the nuts even when it is, because your opponent will be knocked off stance in defense, the eyes are good, too. Fight like a chick, sort of. And if you want… Read more »

Bj
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Bj
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1 question, your post is golden, have you written a book or a blog or anything

emmatheemo
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What about women who think men look hot when beaten up? I always wondered what that could mean (maybe nothing, but it’s worth a shot asking).

xsplat
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Yes, it’s funny how some bloggers will in one breath expound on the value of pre-selection, but in another come back to the position that all attraction reduces down to confidence. I’m sure the bias is some sort of ego protection. We build up mental maps that we inhabit, as if the map was our personality, and any attack of our map is a direct attack to our being. I’ve lately been surprised to see some respected writers fall prey to this very human condition. So yeah, I’ve taken it on myself to kill that meme. Many of my blog… Read more »

YaReally
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Those things absolutely help…..you to become confident. Which is the attraction trigger.

YaReally
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Nope. Anything I write is just a complication of PUA knowledge that’s already available around the net, and backed up by experience testing it out.

YaReally
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“No matter what you’ve done, you’re still a beta at heart.” + “One. The guy was a bitch” So is that your thing? When something conflicts with your reality, you just throw an insulting label on it and write it off so you don’t have to consider it anymore? Have you purposely gone out and tried to pick girls up from mixed sets of guys & girls? At night? In the day? Have you sat down with a couple at their dinner table while they were on a date and macked on the girl? Have you picked up in a… Read more »

YaReally
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“Now your automatic response to my reply will no doubt be something like “lol whatever that’s just keyboard fantasy. If you cross my super MMA badass scarred death stare buddy’s line he will kill you instantly no matter WHAT you say, you can’t calm him down and befriend him like some purring kitten.””

“if he were really ‘alpha’ he would have beat your ass before you got a word in edge wise.”

For the record that’s exactly what I said you’d say lol

Mr. Roach
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I was on a first date one time with a really cute secretary from work. She was in fact from another office. We had drinks. Smoked cigarettes. And were winding up the evening at an outdoor cafe. A derelict homeless guy approached us. I gave him a death look, said “keep on moving” or something similarly direct and rude, and he left, looking a little sheepish. She looked like she was ready to melt. She even said–which sounded like music to my ears–“I really liked the way you handled that.” Needless to say, things turned out well. Dealing with aggressive… Read more »

Mr. Roach
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I’m reminded of the lengthy discussion in Francis Fukuyama’s book the End of History. He basically says, until recently, all societies were warrior aristocracies, with a small cohort of warriors basically oppressing/protecting everyone else of the farming/beta variety. The key factor of the nobility/warrior class was its willingness to face death; they were willling to die in order to get the respect and honor they felt they deserved, and this is probably why violence and alpha traits are still desirable. Way back when those guys were the richest, most powerful, and most respected by everyone, male and female. Loading...

Deepcov3r
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You obviously have never worked years or decades to obtain a professional license. The licensing boards are all feminist cunts.

Before you judge or question “I guess.” someone with real professional accomplisments with your “street cred” values, maybe you’d like to share what occupation you do?

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[…] and this may be the case, but there is an underlying attraction/arousal to a man with the capacity to kill another man. In our evolutionary past, killing a rival was the ultimate social proof of Alpha dominance. It […]

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[…] girl and commanding her to stop with quietly authortitative body language and strong eye contact. Dominance is the main arousal trigger in women. So immediately she’s getting an emotional kick out of the interaction. You can see in their […]

Testo
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Testo
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You either left out the part where your socialskills/subconsciousness/whatever allowed you to pick out weaklings with girlfriends or you’re just full of shit(or far more sneaky than i can imagine).

Testo
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Testo
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You stop her behaviour, not fight on her behalf.

Testo
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Testo
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Demonstration of (imagined)indestructionability, strength. If you look at it closely, our male social drinking behavior is often something similar.”Look at me, i can drink 3 litres highly concentrated poison and still walk&talk”. Drinking games ect.

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[…] Rollo wrote a post about violence turning women on here. […]

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[…] Alpha evolutionarily agree with what we understand about Hypergamy? (War Brides, the attraction of violence, rape fantasy, […]

dlsada
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“I met her in a crowded barroom
One of those typical Hollywood scenes
I was doing my very best Bogart
But I was having trouble getting into her jeans

I punched an unemployed actor
Defending her dignity
Well, he stood up and knocked me through that barroom door
And that girl came home with me.”

Jackson Browne – Ready Or Not

rugby11
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rugby11
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Rollo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyUWJqExw00
(Iron man meets fifty shades director)

Playdontpay
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@ Rollo

You have always said Alpha is a mindset not a demographic.

The willingness to say “fuck it its on” in the face of overwhelming odds proves your viewpoint.

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