Even for the most abject Beta man there comes significant points in his life when he makes a Red Pill connection – a point at which, despite his feminine-primary socialization and for all his own participation in a system that deceives him, his circumstance or a trauma rattles him into a state of clarity.
As I wind my way through the Preventive Medicine timeline in the second draft of the next book I come to understand the periods at which these moments of clarity most commonly occur for Beta men.
Early in life that prompt may be the sting of having a high school sweetheart break up with him before she goes off to college. In or after college it might be the undoing of a long distance relationship he thought for sure his soul-mate would help him dutifully preserve. Later it maybe the realization of how much of his personal potential he truly lost after investing so much in a wife who divorced him and separated him from his children.
Not all of these events are as traumatic as this, but it’s during these Red Pill moments of clarity a man begins to see a hint of the code in the Matrix; a suspicion that maybe what he’s believed about how intergender relations should be really haven’t been directed toward his best interest.
So it was with a certain amount of interest I took notice of a man named Stephen when he petitioned advice from a mouthpiece of the Feminine Imperative this week. Though he doesn’t yet realize it, Stephen is at a Red Pill moment of clarity in his life, and as most Beta men are won’t to do, he seeks answers from the same feminine-primary trough that’s kept him in a state of patient stasis until his yet unrealized potential has now become useful to the Feminine Imperative.
Rather than simply allow the feminine crabs drag him back down into the barrel (until his next Red Pill moment of clarity), I’m going to re-post his plea for understanding here and give him (with the help of my esteemed commenters) the Red Pill truth he deserves at so critical a juncture in his life.
Lately I’ve been thinking about my college dating experiences. I’m 28 years old now and I’ve noticed a very odd phenomenon lately. I’m getting noticed (and approached) by women that never would’ve given me the time of day when I was in college. Successful, accomplished women! One in particular is incredibly hot, but they all are attractive. I am baffled by this. You may laugh, but this is making me extremely frustrated and stressed out.
Reading your blog has offered some explanations. I’m an analytical guy, so I’ve been very impressed with the social science you weave into your writing, and the research about how 28 is the ideal male age for women helped to explain what might be going on. But I still can’t figure out what’s going on, with me or with them. I feel emotions like resentment and suspicion, as well as desire, but I’m not at all flattered. I find myself unable to respond in any way, positively or negatively. I feel paralyzed.
Sometimes I think I’m just offended. These are the very same women who rejected me time and again in college. I mean, I know they’re not the same but…they’re the same. I wanted relationships (I tried casual sex…EPIC FAIL), they didn’t want me. My one serious college girlfriend cheated on me with her professor. I was really, really hurt, felt like a chump, etc.
To put it in a HUS context, the [college girls] preferred alpha males (I’m definitely a beta, introverted, overly intense, with a baby face.) Or maybe they were reluctant to get involved during college because they wanted to be free to move on after graduation and not be tied down.
The thing is, I don’t think I’ve changed all that much. Frankly, I couldn’t change if I wanted to, even if it meant getting these women. I may have come out of my shell a little, but I honestly don’t think it’s me that’s different. It’s them, and I don’t think I like the difference. I think I’m the consolation prize. I think they still want the alphas but they’ve given up. Time to settle. I’m offended. I don’t trust these women.
Am I too proud? Getting my revenge? Guarded from past humiliations? Or have I just grown up and learned from my experiences?
Stephen, the moment of Red Pill clarity you’re now experiencing is coming from your newly realized status. The women you describe being attracted to you (different than being aroused by you) are entering what I call The Epiphany Phase – the point at which their sexual market value begins to decay in earnest while a man’s begins his greatest potential to capitalize upon his own SMV as it steadily (should) increase.
This is a precarious time for women, usually the years between 28 and 30, where she makes attempts to reassess the last decade of her life. Women’s psychological rationalization engine (a.k.a. the Hamster) begins a furious effort to account for, and explain her reasonings for not having successfully secured a long term monogamous commitment from as Alpha a man as her attractiveness could attain for her. Even women married prior to this phase will go through some variation of self-doubt, or self-pity in dealing with the hypergamic uncertainty of her choice of husband (“Is he really the best I could do?”)
It’s during this stage that women will make radical shifts in the prioritization of what prerequisite traits qualify as ‘attractive’ in a man and attempt to turn over a new leaf by changing up their behaviors to align with this new persona they create for themselves. Since the physicality, sexual prowess and Alpha dominance that made up her former arousal cues in a Man aren’t as forthcoming from men as when she was in her sexual prime, she reprioritizes them with (presumed) preferences for more intrinsic male attributes that stress dependability, provisioning capacity, humor, intellect, and esoteric definitions of compatibility and intimacy.
Where you find yourself now, Stephen, is in the midst of these women coming to terms with their waning SMV and the increasing effort it takes women of that age bracket to effectively compete in a sexual marketplace where younger women simply outclass them with every new year that she doesn’t consolidate on a man who represents a good long term provisioning prospect.
As you suggest, these are the same women who found you sexually invisible when they were younger and enjoying the same SMV peak with the relatively more Alpha men they wanted to have short term sexual experiences with. These women were the younger competition they now find threatening their sexual selection today.
Are they exactly the same individual women? I don’t know for sure from your outline, but even if they aren’t, the Schedules of Mating script women follow is so common and predictable that they may as well effectively be the same women to you – and this is precisely what your subconscious instinct is attempting to relate to your conscious-self now.
…I honestly don’t think it’s me that’s different. It’s them, and I don’t think I like the difference.
Unless you’ve made a drastic improvement to your physical appearance or you’ve become more Game aware and have changed your intersexual outlook and behavior the obvious answer is, it is these women who’ve changed.
Now the question remains, why?
What has changed in these women’s lives that prompted this dramatic shift in how they’ve re-prioritized what they now find sexually acceptable? What is it about you in the now (and not back then) that makes you ideal for that acceptability?
Aunt Giggles wants to convince you to let bygones be bygones and follow along with the script the Feminine Imperative expects of you by shaming you for not forgiving a woman of her past indiscretions…
No doubt the girls at college rewarded the males who were early developers and exhibited masculine qualities then. Why take that personally?
I’ll tell you why, because the men they were interested in short term sexual prospects with then weren’t being asked to make anything resembling the life changing personal investment in these ‘reformed’ women she hopes you’ll man-up and be a ‘Better Beta’ for. Those men got the milk for free because the cow milked herself and gave it to them, gladly.
Now that’s a hell of a proposition for a guy who’s played by what his prior feminine conditioning would have him believe were the ‘rules’ for as long as you have. Is it really that far a stretch to want to protect the investment of your personal potential, not to mention your yet unrealized peak SMV potential, with women who now hope you’ll be sex, love and desire starved enough for the past 10 or so years to look past all the short term sex they had with more Alpha men in the Party Years of their early to mid 20s?
Maturation of Beta Bucks
Aunt Sue has always ridden the fence when it comes to acknowledging the Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks nature of women’s sexual strategy. When it suits her narrative she agrees with Hypergamy, when it doesn’t, well, you’ll never know because those posts get scrubbed from her blog.
Fortunately you don’t need her input on Hypergamy to understand women’s pluralistic sexual strategy – there are many, much higher profile women than Susan Walsh who openly and publicly endorse exactly the strategy these women (who are suddenly attracted to you now) are using:
“When looking for a life partner, my advice to women is date all of them: the bad boys, the cool boys, the commitment-phobic boys, the crazy boys. But do not marry them. The things that make the bad boys sexy do not make them good husbands. When it comes time to settle down, find someone who wants an equal partner. Someone who thinks women should be smart, opinionated and ambitious. Someone who values fairness and expects or, even better, wants to do his share in the home. These men exist and, trust me, over time, nothing is sexier.”
― Sheryl Sandberg, Lean In: Women, Work, and the Will to Lead
And since we’re interested in the research perhaps we can ask Aunt Sue why it is nearly half of women in relationships retain a ‘Plan B’ guy:
Whether he’s the one that got away, the office husband, or a gym partner, chances are he is the “Plan B” man you fantasize about running away with. Like an insurance policy, this man is the handpicked boyfriend or husband replacement you have on standby once “plan A” starts to break down on you. According to a survey conducted by OnePoll.com, an online market research company, half of women who are married or in relationships have a Plan B man on standby who is “ready and waiting” because of “unfinished business.”
You see Stephen, it’s not those “Red Pill, Dark Triad cads” who perpetuate the “Beta Bux” theory; we don’t need to, it’s modern women who proudly, triumphantly, openly confirm their own Hypergamy and blatantly expect you to comply with it by default. In fact they’ll shame you, as all the commenters on HUS are doing now, for even questioning your expected role in affirming their sexual strategy.
So, with the knowledge of this new Red Pill truth, openly confirmed by the very same women who are ‘attracted’ to you now, how do you intend to benefit from it? Will you stick your head back in the blue pill sand of HUS, or will you become curious about the broader truths of the Red Pill. Just remember, now you’re aware of a Red Pill truth, there’s no going back.
However, bear in mind, you’re 28, the women you’re dealing with now have had a lot longer than just the 4 years they may have spent in high school to decide if you were attractive to them – these women have had the better part of the past 10 years and the benefit of experiencing the peak of their SMV potential up to this point in life.
Aunt Giggles’ would have you believe your new found SMV is the result some maturation process or change in your personal conditions when in fact it’s the very calculated result of an proudly confirmed, pre-designed sexual strategy. And it becomes really insidious when the operative feminine social convention in play accuses you of wanting “revenge” for acknowledging the same strategy that these women do openly already; you could be cowed into the fear of remaining alone, but that’s a myth to bust in another post.
Commenters, perhaps I’ve missed something here.
Please, feel free to post your advice for Stephen in the always open, never moderated and entirely uncensored comment section only here at The Rational Male.
Rollo, your last two posts have been nothing short of excellent. Your articles are consistently of a high standard, but the last two have really put the screws to the so-called ‘Build A Better Beta’/’Purple Pill’ crowd. Both posts are an excellent response to Ciaran’s last post over at J4G. I think it’s good in a way for this topic to come up every now and again to really drum home (especially to newly minted Red Pill guys) the importance of not allowing oneself to fall back into Blue Pill or even Purple Pill thinking. Accomdating the Feminine Imperative and… Read more »
Not for nothing, but I really do hope Stephan will read this.
re: “I think I’m the consolation prize. I think they still want the alphas but they’ve given up. Time to settle. I’m offended. I don’t trust these women.” I could not have written these words a year ago at age 63; I would have assumed the problem was me not being pleasing enough to the women. Now I know better, and it is all personal; in fact the whole things is the most personal thing in the world. Shame on SW for making light of a problem when it’s the man with the problem. My advice would be for him… Read more »
How, precisely, is “once burned twice shy” being revengeful? One could as justifiably call an assault victim “revengeful” for avoiding large men in dark alleys.
I tell you, Rollo, you are the clearest best source of insight in the manosphere (that I know). It’s quite a thing: The Male SMV Curse: The average man’s SMV never comes close to that of the average woman, and it effects his life a great deal. Men who express frustration over this are giving signals of low value, and will additionally be shamed and invaildated as “bitter”. But most men don’t express resentment at the upper hand ( and in this sphere simply a better life )these women have. Compare that to how women respond to their SMV curse… Read more »
Very classy how Walsh offers him the choice “get over it and be grateful to get with one of these nice 28 year old former carousel riders, or be alone and resentful…your choice buddy!” Hope he wakes up to the reality of the feminine imperative.
Stephen.: listen the fuck up. This guy knows what he is talking about. From a guy who found the red pill at 64. Yeah, older than Jf12. At our age too fucking late. But not for you.
For Stephan… Hey man. I’m twenty eight years old as well. Twenty nine in a few weeks. I went through similar situations as you did, like noticing women, I had previously tried to get with/hook up with/whatever, flirting and hitting on me. In my twenties I had some kills and mltr’s. But couldn’t figure out why I kept falling out of ‘relationships’. Female psychology was a mystery. The confusion (with inter-gender relations) in my late twenties led me to the manosphere. I even started my own blog because I needed to get my thoughts out and have people help me… Read more »
*spelled name wrong, my bad – Stephen
Great advice Rollo, and as you said, I also hope Stephen reads this. Its probably a damn sight more honest and helpful than anything he will get at the echo chamber.
Stephen, you feel offended and don’t trust these women? Your instincts are dead-on. Trust them.
“We must all maintain Frame, always. There is no leeway.”
You must always remind her of this. “You are nice but not necessary. I have options.”
A young (sub 30) lady was mildly flirting with me in the voting line yesterday. I told the first mate. Immediately her desire for me rose despite her distaste. I pointed this out to her. She had to agree it was so.
Top notch post. Hopefully, Stephen will find it. Half-serious question… Don’t guys who are so stupid to write Giggles for advice deserve what they get if they follow it.
I have made my sons (late 20s to early 30s) Red Pill aware. I even try to make my daughter (your beauty won’t last forever) Red Pill aware. But she is looking for that elusive “equality”. I tell her she will only be happy with a man who dominates her. She gets glimmers. But she is not quite ready. But she is only 24.
I was very lucky. I got taught the rudiments of Red Pill in ’62 ( I was 18) by my first girlfriend. It stuck.
Another truly fantastic piece, rollo! For stephan, Don’t listen to those who say you only have a binary solution. Date younger, work on yourself, for yourself. You will not lack for fulfillment or women, since they are just going to get more needy as they age and there are billions of them. Those who will shame you away from the red pill don’t do so for your benefit, but for theirs. Those that encourage you to evaluate the evidence with your own eyes and mind don’t want you to wait as long as they did to find reality. For rollo:… Read more »
Let me co-sign every word that Rollo has said, and remind everyone of this: http://redpillpushers.wordpress.com/2014/01/07/all-women-are-red-pill-women/ All women are Red Pill women. None of these truths are new to them….so, as always, I diagnose the problem is incredibly low self-esteem in men. Women will always do whatever they have to do to survive/get what they want. Where is that kill-or-be-killed self-preservation instinct in men? Trust yourself Stephen…..every conclusion you’re drawing is correct, and men 20-40 years your senior are validating every thought you’re thinking. What kind of man do you want to be? That is the question before you that only… Read more »
Stephen, I’m nearly 50 and Red Pill for 5 years. What you’re noticing now is that when you stop becoming overly invested in the outcomes you’ll notice how women chase you. I’m now in a similar situation being chased by several women who want to bang me or are banging me. I don’t call every day, I tease, I pursue my own projects. When I’m with them, I make it clear our time is most important at that moment. So: fix this co-dependency where your happiness depends on how people perceive you. It will help tremendously in how you approach… Read more »
Rationally, your sexual strategy should consist of continuing to increase your SMV and using these elder women for leverage and practice, until you can cash out with that young girl of your dreams who will love you for your alphaness.
It’s not vengeance, it’s using those who would use you.
All is fair in love and war.
I was only speaking to a family friend an hour ago about taking women’s advice. It was with no relevance to the red pill or female illogical emotional decisions, but more with regards to how little sense they offer men requiring the truth. Basically, he is a retired man who is part of a Rotary men’s group. He informed me that his gathering is the only one left standing with male members (34 of them). All other equivalent groups have stipulated guidelines to now include women. To quote him: “How can men have rational conversations regarding reality with women presenting… Read more »
Oh yes, it’s a bitter pill!
I’m 28, discovered Rollo’s site maybe a year ago. I’ve read everything, sometimes repeatedly and it still makes me angry inside. As you can see I’ve still not digested it the way I should.
How did you manage to let go of the frustration?
M Simon I swear to god if I have to hear about “the first mate” one more time from your boomer mouth, I will drop bombs on your family like its Vietnam.
“We must all maintain Frame, always. There is no leeway.”
You must always remind her of this. “You are nice but not necessary. I have options.”
Also: “Yeah, you’re hot, but not ‘bet half my net worth’ hot.”
Half-serious question… Don’t guys who are so stupid to write Giggles for advice deserve what they get if they follow it.
Yes. Save those who can and are willing to be saved. Avoid wasting time and energy on the rest.
So I went to Hooking Up Smart and saw the post… Egads not one comment from a man to help this poor guy. Does she edit her comment section heavily? And Giggles is commenting on EVERY comment there… sigh. My advice to any guy in his late twenties is WAIT. Don’t buy into the “sudden” interest by girls in their late twenties as anything other than their Hail Mary Beta Bux gambit. These late twenties women will be the ones who frivorce you when you are not measuring up to their expectation of material comfort for her and her kids… Read more »
Stephen: 1. STOP LISTENING TO ANY AND ALL FEMALE ADVICE. You’ve lived through a lifetime of your mother’s nagging female-centric advice, and you’ve probably had a dad that wasn’t red pill. You’ve had 98% female teachers in primary schooling, ALL media shows guys as insecure, bumbling idiots, and ALL media promote female feminism and hypergamy. (Ex. Just this morning I saw a MetLife commercial where a middle-aged woman walks into her elderly parents’ house and calls to her mother asking what’s wrong. You see the elderly dad with him arm in a sling and the mother condescendingly says, “Mr. Do-It-Yourselfer… Read more »
It’s amazing seeing people tell us that what we’re seeing is not, in fact, what we’re seeing. In another post at HUS not even a week ago, we see three commenters in rapid succession set out the “alpha fux” part of “alpha fux, beta bux” in their own words. And they say it better than any man ever could. One said that, well, young people “do stupid things” and have fun. Then when they get older, they “settle down for a stable, steady person. Another talked of going to college and having lots of fun and going through a “wild… Read more »
Great post Rollo. So often the reader feels you are speaking to them…at least I do. Check your spam folder in case my email was flagged, which is often the case because I use an old yahoo account. S
I don’t always agree with you, Rollo, but you are 100% spot-on here. One thing I wanted to add to Stephen (if he is even reading). If you are anything like most men at age 28, you are starved for female companionship and will be sorely tempted to start a LTR/marriage with one of these women – particularly if it was someone to whom you’ve been attracted for some time but wouldn’t give you the time of day. Remember that the “epiphany” that she is having is predictable and temporary. Most women’s personality is based on their perceived “role”. Their… Read more »
Another thing to point up is that beta bux is not just “woman at 30 gets married to man with good job, retires and pumps out kids, sits on sofa and eats bon bons all day and sponges off dutiful husband.” This is where Susan misses the boat — it isn’t about who has more resources to bring to the table; it’s about the exchange being made. The Beta has to bring resources to exchange for sexual access to her body. The attractive Alpha does not. “Beta Bux” is a mindset, the second part of the dual sexual strategy women… Read more »
The average male has a much lower “smv” than women because the average young man is beyond obesity, they’ve became the gods of fat. You don’t need to be a 10 to get sex in college with attractive women. There are so many women and very few men and the women want to have sex. Pratice good personalidade hygiene, shave your face and talk to me like.. They are human beings. There is no such thing as alpha, unless you are talking about Alexander the great. I’ve seen attractive women reject attractive men who were “gaming” them. I’ve seen average… Read more »
Stephen, 3 words: pump and dump. Play along with their game, play the nice guy, the potential marriage partner guy, long term commitment boyfriend guy, the potentially reliable emotional tampon guy (but without the groveling excited beta behavior that women expect. Use the aloof alpha indifference at the same time you’re being the sweetie pie). Don’t put any effort in caring whether something happens or not or focus on any one woman (you will select who shows the most interest in undressing the fastest for you). Escalate to sex as fast as possible while still being the nice guy. Have… Read more »
@thedeti I agree with you that beta bux is not necessarily about money, but rather about exchange – whether that exchange be money, time, affection, commitment, etc. It is an exchange that the alpha does not need to make, because HE is all she wants. This is all based on exchange – in the beta model, the woman wants security and the man wants sex. This is very politically incorrect – society will tell you that women want more than just security, and men want more than just sex – and this is true. But when push comes to shove,… Read more »
Where to start? Well Red Pill or no, there are no guarantees with a woman…. ever, especially Alpha Widows. The women that are hitting on you now are like Walmart shoppers at Christmas, all jambed up at the door to grab what they can before the others get their claws on it. Looking back on my own experince, a man’s best bet is to work on self development, career and assets until you are in your 30’s, then as you are finding out now, you can have your pick of woman. If you have to marry, make sure you have… Read more »
Something that I forgot from my last comment is that an important part of the “investment” exchange the “beta bux” man is supposed to bring is his commitment. He brings not only resources, but a representation that he will stay with her and continue providing those resources for the rest of his life — that’s his commitment. The funny thing is that there was a clear exchange in play, pre-Sexual Revolution. This is the way my parents and countless men and women before, oh, around 1960 did it — he brings resources and commitment; she brings sexual access and domestic… Read more »
Deti and Jeremy are hammering upon the relationship solipsism of women, i.e. their lack of mythical women’s compassion, and rightfully so. But I’d like to point out another aspect of women’s thinking that makes them so difficult: their disconnect from relationship reality. They do not have magical intuition, and the vast majority of their internal world is fantasy, supposition, and denial. I guarantee none of these 28 yr old women think they are well past their peak, even though their own experiences have been telling them that for a few years already. I guarantee none of these women think at… Read more »
“I’m definitely a beta, introverted, overly intense, with a baby face.” I was a pretty boy until my mid thirties, when I got to shove a kid in a stroller around in front of me to stop gaylads hitting me up (ffs!). Women I got with occasionally confessed they and their pals hadn’t gone for me because I was better-looking than they were (with longer hair lol). What a fucking disaster! The good news is you’ll age spectacularly well if, and only if, you stay T-H-I-N. Never mind giant musculature, it just looks weird unless you have the cromagnon fizzog… Read more »
re: Stephen learning from his experiences.
The key part of beta training is sexual contempt from women. He has learned this lesson well for the past fifteen years, and hence the women have ensured he will never, never, never forget. Women have prepped him for this moment that they now can rob him.
@Tam, re: “The good news is you’ll age spectacularly well”
True. 100% of the non-babyfaced men from when I was younger are now totally hagged out, with their noses practically touching their chins.
I know you have a daughter and not a son.
please Don’t turn on us in the manosphere later.
awesome article and the first time I’ve read it articulated why NOT to let bygones be bygones.
keep on preaching Rollo, if not Steve you’ll help uncountable other men
Just found this and figured I would add my story of stupidity/context here. Let’s start by saying, I’ve been with the same person since I was 21. Prior to meeting her I was very alpha and controlling, but I had dreams of a bluepill world. Long story short, 6 years later she wants to break up. I wasn’t alpha enough, she wasn’t a girl that had yet to deal with diminishing returns from age. I had this feeling she was going to turn me into plan B. I remember her at one point saying “I can never love you the… Read more »
@ tam the bam
Thank you for brightening up my day. Just all of this.
“Do not for pity’s sake buy one of Honest Auntie Sue’s lemons.
Don’t even go on the forecourt, every single one has been clocked, “one careful owner” and all that crap, has vast outstanding finance payments and repo men waiting, and like as not has been in a bad shunt, or is an outright cut-and-shut, with silicon filler. And you’ll find the big end has gone.”
He should do what the women did, date them all, many at the same time, for ten years, never commit and then decide if he feels like settling down with a woman ten years his junior . . .
fair is fair
And btw Stephen, the 28 yr old women will never get better. It’s all downhill from now. If you haven’t noticed yet, women will be especially weird, flighty, confused, insane, etc in their 30s. Keep this fact in mind.
The sexual contempt by a women for about 80% of men tends NOT to involve the dangling of real chance of sex with her for those 80%, but instead the rubbing in their face that she would never consider sex with them ever (until she turns 28 …).
Thus, the appropriately revengeful commitment contempt by a man does NOT involve making promises he has no intentions of keeping, but instead the rubbing in the women’s face that he would never consider commitment with them ever. Literally ever.
One area where I might disagree somewhat is on what this guy should do. If he is, legitimately, marriage-minded, and wants to find a woman and have kids and live the scripted life, I have no issue with him doing so. But he should ask himself the question – what are the qualities of a woman I’d like to settle down with. He should approach from an attitude of plenty rather than an attitude of scarcity. IMHO, the best types of women for such an endeavour are those who prioritize marriage from the get-go, rather than prioritizing “having fun for… Read more »
@jeremy, I understand where you’re coming from, but I’ve got to disagree here. Stephen is 28 with precious little previous experience with women, and certainly not enough to know “what he wants and doesn’t want” from a woman he’d consider a long term prospect. His bio here suggests he tried the monogamy route, but was rebuffed, and also at least one “casual sex” experience he described as an “EPIC FAIL”. My advice would be for Stephen to enjoy this new attention for what it’s worth – an opportunity to spin the plates he couldn’t when in his 20’s while further… Read more »
@heyjay Let me start off by saying that, as I’m sure you know, men that swallow the red pill are from all walks of life. They all have different personal histories. Those personal histories made them the person they are today. For example, if I wasn’t such a laid back person then perhaps I wouldn’t have been so accepting of the red pill ideas. “I’ve still not digested it the way I should.” Every guy is different. And will take the pill different ways. But I think they eventually all come to the same outcome, that is, outcome-independence. The fact… Read more »
It is archetypical of the FI and female solipsism that 100% of women think that the lowering of their SMV standards as they get older is the result of the women gaining *wisdom*, of having *better* standards now.
re: frustration. To be frustrated means to be prevented, to be blocked, to be impeded. To be tied down. The one and only one key to not be frustrated is to no be tied down.
Its funny because i am about the same stage even Stephens journey when i found your work Rollo…
I guess the key to “getting over” past frustration is to acknowledge that you were frustrated but that is now in the past. Clarity is freeing, and vice versa. I have another question. After achieving (some degree of) clarity, how did everyone else here avoid going hog wild and cutting a wide swath through the ladies? Other than simply not wanting to, or in my case not wanting to be adulterous. Tip time. One of the most bizarrely effective weapons/tools a man can wield in these times in our gendered relations is the functional equivalent of a neg: genuinely complimenting… Read more »
I’m going to share a straight up Machiavellian strategy to men like Stephen who want to have a relationship, but are repulsed by the bitterness of the red pill. First, you need to Be the Boss. You need to internalize that your value as a man is higher than these women you meet. Strive to be your best: a vector of masculine energy. Know that you don’t need a woman to complete you. You don’t need an equal. You don’t *need* a woman. However, women are good for many things among them their feminine energy (which is wonderful), and their… Read more »
@Rollo, I guess it will depend somewhat on the OP’s life goals. Some men want to have kids in their 30s so that they will eventually have grandchildren and live long enough to watch them grow up. I don’t think that is ridiculous – just a personal decision. If this isn’t his goal, I agree there is no rush. I agree with you that this kid should not jump into anything, inexperienced as he is. But I don’t think he needs 6-8 years of plate spinning if that is not what he wants. Research shows that whether or not a… Read more »
Women tend to be paralyzed by choice, in all aspects of life. That’s why it is a positive good to restrict women’s choices. Men tend not to be paralyzed by choice; they will stride into Walmart and snatch the first pair of ten thousand socks and stride to the checkout line; they tend not be distracted by choice.
BTW I interpret Stephen’s claim that “I don’t think I’ve changed all that much. Frankly, I couldn’t change if I wanted to” to mean MOSTLY that what he wants out of life, what he wants from a woman, the choices that he would make (if he could) have not changed and will not change.
That’s how men are.
I suppose I could’ve saved myself the trouble of typing this one out and just linked Jenny Bahn’s lament article to prove the point: http://time.com/3422046/30-is-the-new-50/ Alex is 38. I’m 30. Technically, there are no “people our age.” But I’m starting to feel that a 30-year-old woman might as well be a 40-year-old man, though infinitely less desirable, culturally speaking. At 40, a man is well into hitting his stride, something the guy I’m arguing with is all too aware of, as evidenced when he professes on multiple occasions, “I’m an amazing guy.” “We’re killing it. KILLING IT,” he tells me,… Read more »
Rollo, what do you think Stephen should actually do with these women that want his bux?
This is a great opportunity for Stephen at his age he does have considerable control of whether he is the AF or the BB going forward. Hopefully he’ll make over here to learn the truth before he falls for the BB con. Hopefully his moment of clarity will make him receptive to the truth.
@if12, I think I agree with what was said before. One of the first steps for me was to not be frustrated anymore. No point pinning over an illusion. Be happy you know the game. Maybe not your rules per se, it’s up to you to bend them to your needs. Besides, what’s more gratifying then the world telling you it’s ok to an a. Bluepill people are people who want to be normal because they feel below everyone else. It’s very difficult to be a bluepill inside and make the jump through sheer force. Redpill people are people who… Read more »
To Rollo: Great post
To Stephen: Listen to the wealth of knowledge presented here
I just wish there was an update to the situation of Stephen now
Stephen’s only real path to happiness is constant self-improvement and frame. The Red Pill, when distilled to its essence, is about releasing the vitality and freedom of the individual to live a full, rich life in whatever way he wants. No matter how calculating he is with women, he will never find real happiness until he maximizes his potential and captures his full vitality. Only then, can he actually decide what he wants with women and what role they should play in his life. There is no one “right” answer. He can choose to be forever single or monogamous with… Read more »
Rollo’s paragraph here really sunk in with me: “You see Stephen, it’s not those “Red Pill, Dark Triad cads” who perpetuate the “Beta Bux” theory; we don’t need to, it’s modern women who proudly, triumphantly, openly confirm their own Hypergamy and blatantly expect you to comply with it by default. In fact they’ll shame you, as all the commenters on HUS are doing now, for even questioning your expected role in affirming their sexual strategy.” To be Blue Pill (or Beta) is to state that those Alpha Male Cads have been destroying civilization by sleeping with oh-so-innocent college-aged beautiful women.… Read more »
Any time a woman, of all people, accuses a man of being too emotional and taking things too personally, you gotta know she greatly fears that he is discovering truth.
A man’s version of his SMP desert: no woman at all ever liked him enough if at all.
A woman’s version of her SMP desert: she didn’t like any man enough if at all.
One funny part is that the woman will always claim that her problem is the same as the man’s! But the funniest part is that the woman always thinks her problem is that she wasn’t picky enough! AWALT, all the time, everywhere.
One thing I wonder about Stephen’s tale, though. I don’t have experience with women *approaching* me per se, but I know I would have felt flattered (like I did/do with women noticing me) even if I thought the women were just trying to use me (“They like me enough to use me!”). Also, I cannot relate to his paralysis. To me, these two components of his reactions, the lack of pleasure in a woman approaching him, and his paralysis, seem to me to point to a problem in his libido or orientation. I don’t think I’m taking an unjustified leap… Read more »
The definition of a sexual relationship for a woman is one where the man is masculine and not overly emotional. He is overly emotional for a sexual relationship…..not a friendly one. The woman will trick herself into all kinds of rationalizations, but in the end…..she wants her man to be a hard, masculine beast who treats her reasonably well. Woman is an animal. Her soul has wonderful feminine energy when she feels secure with a masculine man. Otherwise, she is just a harpy.
Stephen, I know the feeling. Once out of graduate school, the women they came a running. The same ones who earlier wouldn’t have given me the time of day. As one commentor advised, use beta provider game and pump and dump the shit out of them. Use them for target practice like they use men to buy them drinks at the bar. Spin plates. Continue the path of self improvement and immersion in game and in six to eight years you’ll be a stone cold Alpha stud that chicks will genuinely want for your alpha fux. Then at that point… Read more »
Hey Stephen, strap in tight buddy there’s no going back now!
@Rockett Ignore them they are used up goods let some other schmuck have them. Go find some hot 21 year old and let her snort coke of your dick!
You gotta love how the best retort any of the hens have now is “just be yourself Stephan, don’t ask why these women are into you now, just go with it.”
By the way, clarity in this situation entails him seeing that women’s behaviors are not his fault. Period. Eve’s sin was not in any way whatsoever Adam’s fault (or God’s fault, for that matter), no matter how women and women apologists like to feel about it.
@Seething Lurker, now I’m feeling like a bad boy for laughing along with the tautology (taut-ology, get it?) of “fresh young poon never gets old”. As recompense for the laugh, I offer “but old sometimes gets fresh young poon”.
I hope Stephen notices all the men are saying go for younger chicks who will now be easier, at the same time all the women are whining “Why not choose the older “better” women now?”
Open Hypergamy raised to an art form… First Love by Jeanie Greensfelder, 2012 My first boyfriend was my second choice: Beth got Gerry Jenson so I got Billy James whose jaw hung, his tongue showing. I looked down on Billy: girls were taller in seventh grade. I wore his ID bracelet and a motorcycle cap with his initials. When we hugged, he smelled like Ivory soap, his cheek smooth and soft—a Norman Rockwell boy. Walking me home from school he carried my books, and looked forward to a kiss at my door. I knew he was trustworthy and true, reliably… Read more »
Jf12 – “Also, I cannot relate to his paralysis. To me, these two components of his reactions, the lack of pleasure in a woman approaching him, and his paralysis, seem to me to point to a problem in his libido or orientation. I don’t think I’m taking an unjustified leap here.” I can relate. When your primary experience is active rejection, or woman looking at you in a way that indicates fear you aren’t prepared at all to quickly and properly react to something different. As well, when everything not rejection is a con to get free labor it’s easy… Read more »
I saw all the advice on here and it all sounds good but you guys are forgetting something. Stephan already acknowledges that he’s a beta. At his very core, he cannot change this and I feel like he knows this. Hell, all his experiences point to this fact. He can run game, perfect it(to the best of his ability) and become red pill aware but that still won’t guarantee he will receive the genuine desire he craves from hot women in his own country. Like some commentator said in the last post, “There’s a difference between a girl who’s “willing”… Read more »
@jf12, he he
The hens’ chorus continues over at HUS. One commenter suggested that the letter was a troll. Aunt Giggles is busy relentlessly scrubbing.
Could you elaborate on the difference between women being “attracted” as opposed to “aroused?” I assume that there is an emotional component to “attracted,” but it has to do more with non-arousal factors, e.g., money, status, etc. They’re “attracted” to a man who has this, but not necessarily aroused.
Rollo said, “You gotta love how the best retort any of the hens have now is “just be yourself Stephan, don’t ask why these women are into you now, just go with it.” Earlier, Michael London England said, “All straight men’s dilemma is the same. They want to fuck women that WANT to fuck them.” I say: I’ve recently accepted that Yes-Means-Yes is simultaneously the ultimate in red pill wisdom AND the biggest shit test ever conceived. It’s Red Pill Wisdom when men routinely browse the Manosphere and constantly devote themselves to self-improvement. By doing this, we’re becoming men whom… Read more »
@OldSmokinMan Women are “attracted” to guys I like to call “Higher Betas” guys that are well and truly stuck in the matrix they have high paying jobs, nice house and car, are reliable, they can introduce them to family and friends and can feel all proud of themselves that they’ve nabbed a good guy but make no mistake Women are not aroused by these Men. If you look like one of the guys from the movie 300 then that’s another story!
“But it’s the biggest shit test ever conceived, because the women who want to fuck us *ONLY* need to ‘consent’. They don’t have to self-improve. They don’t have to undergo therapy, (and, at its best, the Manosphere represents a large-scale Group Therapy for the entire male gender!). They just have to ‘consent’.” You say that as if there might be room for improvement on the part of women. We all know women perfectly formed in their biology, and incapable of change because they don’t need to. We men are never to complain about the nature of women. We must celebrate… Read more »
The advice coming from others seems to be: Hey, Stephen, just go with the flow. These women have “grown” and “matured”. They aren’t the same women they used to be. And you’ve changed. You’re more “attractive” now than you were when you were a gangly, awkward 18 year old. People change. You’re looking a gift horse in the mouth. Can’t you just be grateful that the great girls around you have decided that it’s your turn now? And it’s not about “beta bux”, dipshit, because she has her own money. Also, you have to be quite careful in assessing what… Read more »
Nice, Deti kills two posts with one stone – Helps define ‘attraction’ vs. ‘arousal’ and illustrates verbal Alpha & Beta tells.
Well done, 3X word score for Deti!
thedeti – “Notice what women DON’T say about such men: –he’s hawt –I love being around him –he looks great –I feel so good when I’m with him –I like the way he looks, I’m drawn to him –he’s handsome –he has great [insert body part here] Those are reserved for their former boyfriends, actors, guys they see on the street, etc.” The message to all betas should be that every woman who has gone round and round on the carousel is only suitable to go round and round. None are worthy of the one way commitment they seek from… Read more »
@deti re: “it’s not about “beta bux””
In my practically unlimited experience around “successful accomplished” women who don’t actually need provisioning, since this is my milieu, the more successful and more accomplished the woman the MORE she wants comfort and safety, i.e. the MORE she wants “beta bux”. This is only a paradox/contradiction to women scoffers.
If an accomplished woman wants comfort and safety it is probably because:
1. she wants optionality, the option to SAHM, work mommy track, work part time, etc.
2. she wants a husband who is “less alpha” because she knows she can control such a man
3. she knows a more “alpha” husband will want sex more often, she cannot control the sex spigot with such a man, and her marrying means she’s “retiring” from that rough and tumble sexual drama
Alpha husbands don’t want sex more often, btw, they merely get sex more often.
Keep in mind that the alpha thug harem is by far the most common in the lowest SES, and the lowest SES women get the least serviced by men and have the fewest beta orbiters.
I don’t think it’s entirely or even mostly sexual economics, but basically most unsuccessful and unaccomplished women have little to offer a man except her increasingly less young and less fresh stuff. And, evidently, it’s not worth the betas’ bux (or commitment).
Respect yourself for what you’ve been through. Who was there for you when you were sexually deprived? Who cared about your wants and needs when you were younger? Don’t let ANYONE piss on your head and tell you it’s raining. The truth might hurt at first, but the reward is self-respect and a supreme sense of being grounded in who you are. You can hate yourself and the world and regret your life and feel unhappy about all of this. That’s one option. The other option is to use it as rocket fuel for true self respect and self love.… Read more »
No doubt the girls at college rewarded the males who were early developers and exhibited masculine qualities then. Why take that personally? Here let me translate that for you – she f**ked all the other guys, and now that she’s on the down-hill slide she’s looking for a sucker. That is where you come in… Do you want sloppy 200ths? That is what you’ll be getting. This is why I go for the young ones – the younger the better (insert legalese disclaimer here).. Now that doesn’t mean don’t enjoy the fact they are giving you attention. No, enjoy them… Read more »
You gotta love how the best retort any of the hens have now is “just be yourself Stephan, don’t ask why these women are into you now, just go with it.”
I just checked in over there. Damn, we are talking hamsterbation of epic proportion. Too funny, some commenter named Frumpy told Stephen to just ignore what he reads elsewhere.
Funny, in Giggles’ advice to Stephan and in her comments, she essentially validates my SMV graph…again.
According to her criticisms, Stephan’s SMV should be on the decline, right?
Chiming in again, prior to church, to remind everyone to avoid redefining alpha the way women want: “Oh, my husband is SO alpha! He provides for me, and keeps me safe, stomping spiders for me and painting the bathroom, and scratche my back and brings me bananas. That’s how I define alpha!”
Alpha is defined by women serving him. Beta is defined by him serving women. All else is error.
Masterclass advice, as usual. While ensconced within the intellectual walls of our anatheums, we sometimes forget the vast masses of men who are drowning in the cacophony of lies that saturate the modern world.
If we are to make any progress, we must first elucidate the issues for these men. Only then can we begin a concerted effort to disassemble the dystopian quagmire in which we find ourselves.
Dear Stephen, Study Rollo’s chart: Print it out, post it on your wall, and as an analytical guy, study it. Read about it in Rollo’s posts such as: http://therationalmale.com/2014/10/13/validation-hunting-the-jenny-bahn-epiphany/ Next understand you can improve your SMV, to shift your personal graph line up. Ignore nonsense that are stuck where are you, trapped in the matrix, you have to flee the country to live where betas are king. Take steps to be better, even though you have attractive women approaching you with agendas. Remember time is your friend, you are gaining in SMV while the women near and passed 30 want… Read more »
” If you haven’t noticed yet, women will be especially weird, flighty, confused, insane, etc in their 30s.” Word. I’ve been shagging (she calls it “Dating”) a 38 y/o woman who senses but doesn’t know that the script has flipped; she is no longer the prize she thinks. Worse, like many her age, she continues to make decisions “for herself” which, of course, are only making her less attractive, less “datable”, and less desirable as a wife, e.g. a large, visible tattoo on her lovely arm, adopting several pets, keeping a horse 20 miles away that must be cared for… Read more »
(here’s a better version with less typos, I need a edit function) Dear Stephen, Study Rollo’s chart: Print it out, post it on your wall, and as an analytical guy, study it. Read about it in Rollo’s posts such as: http://therationalmale.com/2014/10/13/validation-hunting-the-jenny-bahn- epiphany/ Next understand you can improve your SMV, to shift your personal graph line up. Ignore nonsense that you are stuck where you are, trapped in the matrix, you have to flee the country to live where betas are king. Take steps to be better, even though you have attractive women approaching you with agendas. Remember time is your… Read more »
Rollo, have you ever done a piece on what the best relationship a man can have with a woman looks like? Having recently swallowed the red pill, I get that the blue pill crap is all an illusion. What does real look like though? Are all women simply pretty decorations that at best can make our life more pleasant as long as things are going well, only to turn sour if we loose our ability to provide? Are none of them capable of a deep conversation or sharing actual emotion with? If so, MGTOW makes more sense every day.
@Michael London England
Thanks for sharing that.
I like reading stories from older red pill’ers.
For example, divorce. I’ve never gone through anything even close to that so in contrast to my own situation, currently, I’ve got it pretty good.
@Is This Thing On? As soon as I saw the acronym mgtow I had to say something. I don’t think mgtow is a great idea. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve found the info at mgtow.com quite inspirational and it helped with the unplugging. The audio recording they have of a guy describing hypergamy is priceless. But, I believe, the decision to opt out of the mating market is an emotional reaction to the red pill within the anger phase. If it is in fact better for children to be raised by a two parent house hold then you are doing… Read more »
dcllcd: I think we are mostly of the same mind. My experience however has been that sharing genuine emotion is seen as weakness by women and an instant turn-off. Certainly over emoting by anyone is always a turn-off. I guess what I’m asking for is someone with more knowledge than I have to kind of flesh that line out a bit. Regarding things going sour, I have in mind several stories of soldiers getting blown up in Iraqistan and coming back to have their wives leave them because they can’t provide like they used to. That’s just shit. In the… Read more »
What if you’re happily fucking a hypergamic women that left her Alpha fuck. Say, you get along well, have fun and she fucks generously. As long as you’re red pill aware and don’t give away your freedom, any harm in that?
See Rollo, that post is just depressing. I have no idea how I want to navigate this. Why involve yourself at all with a creature capable of such behavior. MGTOW like to bash the NAWALT, but I see there point more and more every day.
You can definitely share deep emotion with a woman in connection with a life that you built together…..BUT….it has to be emotion from a masculine frame. The fundamentals of sexual attraction are masculine and feminine roles. You can never violate that premise for too long. Panicking, confusion, indecisiveness…..these are all feminine behaviors that kill male sex appeal…..this is why a man has to focus on his development first and foremost. Create a beast out of yourself that takes life by the horns…..and you will see that your need for feminine-type emotional release will go drastically decrease. You will simply be… Read more »
This is pretty much dead on. But then @rollo: What would you advise for guys who are early 20s and single/struggling to have sex with various hot girls? It’s confusing. Because I’ve been working on building myself through education and getting into grad school etc. but that is a beta provider route…….which, yeah, will pay off with 30 year old girls, but I want to maximize my options for hooking some younger hotties. The thing is that’s not what grad school will necessarily get me ya know? my theory is that its best to maximize all your ‘non provider alpha’… Read more »
“advise for guys who are early 20s and single/struggling to have sex with various hot girls?”
do some shit. Rollo was in a band.
what he said: “ask yourself what are your real gifts and talents? How can you best enhance them?”
@ New Yorker “emotion from a masculine frame” That’s it. That’s what I should of said. You can share genuine emotions with women, as long as, its within your frame and not hers. At least I don’t see a problem with that. “you will see that your need for feminine-type emotional release will go drastically decrease.” These days, I have definitely lost an urge to share much of anything with women (except my dick). Back in the day, I felt like I needed to connect emotionally with women, just through conversation. Anti-vag tingle. I can’t tell you how many times… Read more »