I’ve had a fantastic marriage for over 15 years now, but I’m not going to sugar coat the facts that marriage involves life changing sacrifices for men that no woman will ever fully understand or appreciate. I’m not anti-marriage. I’m anti- uninformed, pollyanna, shoulda’-saw-it-coming, ONEitis fueled, shame induced, bound for bankruptcy, scarred my children for life, marriage.

A woman loves you when she takes you for granted. That sounds odd I know, but it’s when she’s not fawning all over you and you’re in your 10th year of marriage and it’s just part of everyday conversation. “OK, love you, bye” is at the end of every phone call. You’re not thinking about it, because you don’t need to. If you’re asking the question “how do you know when she loves you?” You’re not in it. It’s only when that familiarity and regular comfort is removed that she can appreciate it. Once the commonness of love is established women will only rarely express it overtly – in fact the expression will be what’s expected of you – so you have to look for it covertly.

All the flowery crap you read in your Hallmark card on Valentines Day or your Anniversary was written by someone else. And while it’s nice to have these gestures of appreciation occasionally, it’s more important to see the forest for the trees. It’s not individual acts of affection or appreciation so much as it is the whole of what you both do on a regular day-to-day basis. It’s what you and she are all about after your three hundredth bowl of oatmeal together on a Saturday morning and your kids are fighting for control of the TV remote while you’re sitting across the breakfast table discussing which bills need to be paid first this month and how bad the lawn needs mowing that defines love and marriage. Yes, precisely the things you’ll never think about when you’re sarging her or considering moving her up in your plate spinning line up.

This is what marriage is; not necessarily boring per se (although it certainly can be more often than not), but ordinary. It’s normal, common, or becomes so. Think about how many people who’ve lived, married and died on planet earth who did exactly the same things as you. That’s the real test of marriage that no one who hasn’t experienced it can really relate in any meaningful sense. The happy, Oprah-ized idea is that you have to “keep it fresh”, but even after a night of freshening it up and the Wal-Mart lingerie is in the clothes hamper, and you pick up the kids from spending the night at her sisters house the morning after, you go back to the day-to-day marriage you’ve always had. This is the shit no one tells you about when you’re being sold on the Marriage Goal – the “now what?” feeling that comes directly after you’ve found the ONE you’ve been looking for, or “did the right thing” with and married because she suddenly rediscovered religion AFTER you’d had marathon sex with her for 3 months straight and wouldn’t abort the pregnancy (and no, that didn’t happen to me).


I think what most men uniquely deceive themselves of is that they will ultimately be appreciated by women for their sacrifices. Learn this now, you wont. You can’t be because women fundamentally lack the ability to fully realize, much less appreciate the sacrifices a man makes to facilitate her reality. Even the most enlightened, appreciative woman you know still operates in a feminne-centric reality. Men making the personal sacrifices necessary to honor, respect and love her are commonplace. You’re supposed to do those things. You sacrificed your ambitions and potential to provide her with a better life? You were supposed to. You resisted temptation and didn’t cheat on your wife with the hot secretary who was DTF and ready to go? You were supposed to. Your responsibilities to maintaining a marriage, a home, your family, etc. are common – they’re expected. They are only appreciated in their absence.

This is the totality of the feminine-centric reality. Men only exist to facilitate the feminine reality, and any man who disputes this (or even analyzes its aspects) is therefore not a ‘man’. It just IS. Even the most self-serving, maverick among men is still beholden to the feminine imperative in that he’s only defined as a rebel because he doesn’t comply with the common practices of ‘men’ in a female defined reality. And ironically it’s just this maverick who is appreciated by the feminine above those men who would comply with it (or even promote it)  as a matter of course.

The concept of appreciation really dovetails into a lot of other aspects of intergender relations.

For instance in The Mature Man thread; assume for a moment that a 40 y.o. Man with the options to pursue younger women “does the right thing” and seeks out a relationship with a woman his own age. Would he be appreciated for essentially giving an aged woman a new lease on life? Or would he be viewed as doing what is to be expected of him?

Would a man who marries a single mother and helps with the parental investment of another man’s child be appreciated more for having done so? Would it even factor into a woman’s estimation of his character, or would he simply doing what’s expected of a man?  The question of appreciation is a real quandary for the White Knight.

Relationships aren’t work.

Familiarity does in fact breed contempt,..and mediocrity, and routine, and banality, and commonness,.. which is why so many marriages end up in the shit can. Men and women give up on themselves.

The “Relationships are work” meme is a Social Convention. How often do you hear men say these words? This has filtered into popular consciousness even with men now. For the LTR men who subscribe to this I’d also speculate that many of them are in relationships where THEY are “doing the work” for the women who are giving them the ‘grade’ so to speak. And of the single men who subscribe to this mythology, each had to be conditioned to believe this is the case in LTRs by women. This is rooted in the mistaken belief that men’s actions and sacrifices can ever be appreciated by women.

What would the best method be to get a man to live up to the idealizations a woman has as her perfect mate (however twisted and convoluted this may have been defined for her)? Women love the ‘fixer upper’. “He’d be such a great guy if only he would, _____” or she’ll say “I’m working on him.” It’s when the conditioning goes from “I’m working on him” to “We’re working on our relationship” that he has now internalized her frame control. This is where the mythology of Relationships-as-Work is derived from. How often is it the woman who needs the ‘work’ in the relationship? And if it is her, the terminology of the relationship and the associations change. ‘Work’ implies a man better conforming his identity to her ideal relationship, to better fit the feminine-centric reality. And what better way to initiate this than to psychologically condition him to want to embody her ideal – even before he’s ever met a woman or been involved in a relationship?

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

105 comments on “Appreciation

  1. Depressing. If there was a motive not to marry, you described it.

    Not only in marriage, the feminist frame is the whole world frame.

    Men die in wars? They are supposed to.

    Men pay taxes for parasite women? They are supposed to.

    Men die in mines? They are supposed to.

    Men renounce to anything amousing but dangeous or unproductive for the state and the female? They are supposed to.

  2. Rollo,

    I enjoy your writing. In my case your are preaching to the choir.

    I would love to see make your best case FOR marriage. Not for “…uninformed, pollyanna, shoulda’-saw-it-coming, ONEitis fueled, shame induced, bound for bankruptcy, scarred my children for life, marriage.” But for whatever kind of marriage your consider desirable or acceptable.

    Why would a man with options marry? Why did you marry? I am 29 and am perpetually in relationships with 1-3 beautiful women with a few every now and then women in the mix. Why would I marry?

    I am not being argumentative. I would really love to hear a case for marriage from someone like you. Someone who HAD the options, but CHOSE to marry. Someone who understood what he was getting into, but CHOSE to do it anyway. Someone who sees the matrix so clearly and still marries is intriguing to me.

    And I don’t even mean all the legal implications etc. I am just curious why would a man like you commit to one woman for life, move in with her, etc. Are there some benefits that I am overlooking? Is there some sort of a deep connection that is not possible without that sort of commitment?

    Sadly, you are the only person “in my life” that I can ask this question. All the married people I know in the real world are firmly plugged in. Thanks for your work.

    1. The institution of marriage is predominantly for ensuring that we produce future citizens that are emotionally healthy who will contribute to ensuring prosperity. This requires sacrifice on the part of both men and women.

      The current situation in america does not bode well, 40% of the newborns are born to single mothers. We will see a major impact of this on the economic dominance of US in the next twenty or thirty years. Children who grow up with single moms have crippled self-esteem and carry the emotional burden of abandonment and lack of a father for the rest of their lives. Ever wonder why a quarter of the americans are on anti-depressants.

      Look at the children in schools, ill-mannered, rude, and complete lack of respect for elders. Go to Asia and even in Europe and you will see the difference. Essentially, parental investment in children in US is probably the lowest in the world, and as a result we are producing low quality citizens.

      So if you care about the future of US, then have children(with or without marriage), but keep the family intact and invest and instill good values in the them. Civilizations are built or destroyed based on the quality of its future citizens. It is your call.

  3. One rational argument for marriage I see is that with age even a man’s options diminish to the point where it MIGHT make sense to just marry. But even that is not convincing to me.

    Having children is probably the strongest contender. Is commitment necessary to have to have kids. My knee-jerk reaction is yes, but I need to explore this further, though I have no desire to have children.

  4. Being a man is a thankless job. If you are looking for praise the only way it is going to come is in the form of women offering you access to their primary asset.

    What makes matters worse for men these days is that on top of the baseline expectations that come with being born with a penis, we are also forced to deal with the modern entitlement complex. And we wonder why women can’t be satisfied.

  5. Not original, but germane and very true.

    Men want the woman they marry to stay the same and never change, but that doesn’t happen.

    Women want to change the man they marry (the “fixer-upper”), but that doesn’t happen either.

    1. A woman will love you for how you make her feel. And by that I mean she´ll infatuate with herself because of how she feels, and with you by extension.

      1. That’s the best description of female to male love I have hear yet.

        The bad part about this is that her “love” is conditional and transient.

        The good part is that if you understand female psychology this can easily be manipulated.

        1. Transient love is still love– no worse than any other. The root of the idea that love is eternal and unconditional is the Christian monogamy ideal. I though we had dismissed that a long time ago– and yet, here we are.

          1. Where have you been? Unicorns and unconditional love, and princess weddings and white knights are as much of the female lexicon today as they ever were.

  6. “You sacrificed your ambitions and potential to provide her with a better life? You were supposed to.”

    I think a good case can be made for women being expected to do this much more than men. Yes, marriage takes sacrifice for everyone involved– but are you actually making the argument that it is much harder for men somehow? The other option is to simply not marry– do you know how hard it is to decide not to marry if you’re a woman? It is expected of you if you’re a woman– and little else that you do in your life will be judged in the same way.

    I think some of what you write on this blog is very interesting. But it seems like the bulk of it is saying that everything is harder for men, which I cannot agree with. I can see the many ways in which being a man is tough and I don’t really want to go into an argument over who has it harder because in reality, nobody is just their gender.

    But if you want to get political about it, for the vast majority of issues you talk about on this blog, the flip side for women is usually much worse. Not always– things like custody battles tend to go better for women in our society. But for most things– being a man allows you much more freedom. With this freedom, there is also more pain. That is something women are starting to learn now– some (but not all) of the ‘complaining’ is due to the realization that freedom is not equivalent to happiness.

    What you are doing on this site is the men’s version of what the ‘complaining’ feminists do– they give a voice to some of the frustrating aspects of living in a gendered society. However, for women, this is often more than mere frustrations with dating or marriage– for them, things like domestic violence, rape, and general abuse cloud other issues. In comparison, your complaints about not being appreciated enough seem really– well– small. It doesn’t mean they are not legitimate or that there is no use talking about it. Gender relations are up in the air in our society right now—this needs to be discussed. But the way in which you do it—maybe as men we haven’t learned to complain well yet.

    1. except that “complaining” about reality is not the goal of this website. the goal is to understand reality, in order to best adapt to it. in contrast to feminists, there is no attempt here to shame women into acting differently. that would be pointless, and the truth is we like women as they are, flaws and all. the point of this particular post is that we CANNOT complain or shame shame women in our lives about appreciation, and nor should we try.

      as men, we mainly want to understand reality and apply our knowledge, not engage in feminist politicking.

    2. What world do you live in? “for them, (women) things like domestic violence, rape, and general abuse cloud other issues In comparison, your complaints about not being appreciated enough seem really– well– small. ”

      I cannot tell if you are woman or not, but brainwashed you are. Anyone with eyes to see and an open mind would admit that men, the common men not the elite, the überrich and pop stars have it much worse than your average woman (from life expectancy to performance in the sexual market place, as well as in the job market in certain developed countries). Fortunately our destiny in the SMP and the world is not only determined by our looks and that’s why game existst. I thank God for the existence of sites like this because they are truthful and recognize the reality, let us analyse the facts and apply the newly acquired knowledge for the betterment of our lives even though I don’t agree with all the opinions of the author of this blog.

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  8. I partially disagree. Older women and women with children are well known for appreciating men. They are desperate and give up sex and gifts a lot. It’s all very well saying that women are too stupid to realize what men are doing for them but older women and women with children face the reality of it, in that few men want them. It’s hard to argue with reality when you’re alone and no one loves you.

    While they may want to be taken care of despite offering little, reality says no. But with other women who have won the prize of marriage, yes I agree. They tend to stop appreciating men.

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  10. I think people expect too much excitement in their relationships, and sometimes friendships too. But after a while, a relationship might reach a flatline of happiness (no significant ups or downs), and it’s nothing to worry about. For me at least, the answer to “Now what?” is “just do more things you like”. The relationship is working (if it’s not broken, don’t fix it), but only if your partner is likewise isn’t bothered by this flatline.

    Another thing… You said men’s sacrifices are rarely appreciated. You mentioned giving up ambitions to provide for her, and resisting the urge to cheat. I would say those two are a bit different. Giving up ambitions is a sacrifice and doesn’t feel to me like something a man is supposed to do. But with cheating… If you have a trusted employee, do you actively appreciate it when they fail to steal your cash every day? Maybe if most employees you could get were thieves… I don’t think it’s a strictly female problem. It’s something people in general do. The better person you are, the less you are appreciated for doing the bare minimum of effort to be a good person. Also, if everyone else is providing the same loyalty, then it’s expected rather than appreciated.

  11. bit late but I agree on the appreciation piece they never see what you do or have done – unless you make a point of mentioning it and then you end up in a world of hurt. ( irrespective whether the woman has kids or not )

  12. I suppose I’m not the demographic you’re trying to reach with this, being a masculist female (unheard of! right?), but I’d like to both disagree and then agree with this piece. It’s a bit of a ramble, and half an ode, so you don’t need to read it, but I felt I had to write it.


    I am very, very aware of the sacrifices my boyfriend makes. I try to minimise them. We both work, we split finances 50/50 even though he earns more than I do (but we both work the same hours, at the same company, comparable position, just with different work experience (which, yes, is the only reason for the wage difference – I am NOT being discriminated against, I assure you)), we split chores and I try to err on the side of doing more of them if it’s unclear where the tally lies though I suspect that probably just keeps it at 50/50 (subjectivity and all).

    He inconveniences me by not fucking me anymore (yes, seriously; I’m the woman, he’s the guy; we stereotype-flip a lot (he loves shopping for clothes, I hate it; he’s the vain one, I take five minutes in the morning to get ready and wear my trousers repeatedly; he loves movies with sappy happy endings… it goes on! He does love cars, though, and I don’t)), I inconvenience him by carpooling with him to work and dictating when we go there on some days (he likes to go to work late and leave later, I’d rather early for both). I try to limit this to the days I actually have an early morning meeting. I also try not to pester him about sex (which is a difficult line to tread if I at the same time want him to be aware that he’s super handsome and sexy); he has enough things draining energy out of him already.


    Relationships definitely aren’t work. I am horrified that “Relationships are work” is even a meme – I hadn’t heard it with any frequency before. I try to explain to people that if you’re asked to “work on your attitude so the relationship can function!” and similar things… – as much as it hurts to realise, you may well be in the wrong relationship. Some clashing is to be expected, but if you are continually the problem (even just in subtext!), then the relationship is the problem. Finding someone who does appreciate you (and this goes both ways) is difficult if you have expectations. I went into my relationship with close to none at all. I pictured, very early on in my life, the idea that I might end up with a fat boyfriend who loafs around on the couch, drinks beer and watches soccer, the most boring (some might say worst – but read on) sort of male stereotype there is. I pictured this and I pictured it long enough to actually enjoy it. I pictured it long enough to appreciate what it might mean to the person in that picture.

    Then I found my boyfriend. That man is so awesome. He doesn’t even realise it! I try to tell him as often as I can that he’s handsome, he still pushes my buttons, he’s extremely intelligent and his humour is fantastic. He loves his job. He gets really enthusiastic about things and it infects me. He makes me smile so much. I don’t really know how I managed to get my hands on him, but I encourage him to look for other women (or men, but that’s not his thing) if I’m not his sexual profile any more and life polyamourously as I do with my girlfriend (long-distance, unfortunately). He’s truly monogamous, though.

    We’ve been together for nine years. I can no longer see us ever parting ways. We respect each other too much, too deeply, too absolutely. But we will never marry… because I am not a fan of the possession it implies to people.

    My boyfriend is free. And so I am.

    And from my perspective… that’s how it ought to be. And I think it solves a lot of issues.

    (FYI, despite the ode, I would not[!] call my relationship a standard romantic one. There are no cande-light dinners. There are no sappiness competitions. I’d throw the flowers in his face if he tried to go Valentine on me. I’ll shriek if he brings me a ring because OH MY GOD WHY DID YOU SPEND YOUR MONEY ON A TINY SHINY ROCK YOU DIMWIT. Fortunately he has no such inclinations.)

    (BTW, please don’t misunderstand, the people who want romance and standard monogamy are more than entitled to it. There’s nothing wrong with either; it’s fantastic if it works for you! It’s just not for me. Note: I do believe mutually agreed on relationship rules are a paramount – polyamourous people have them, too, they’re just different. We do still have cheating, it means fucking someone else… and then pretending you didn’t. And yes, we also still break up for all the dumb reasons under the sun.)

    Man, I feel dirty for all those disclaimers. I am way too scared of the interwebs. :/ Why do people even let me have it… *shakes head*

  13. To paraphrase Shannon: “They’re like slot machines that sometimes pay out, but never close to the full sum you put in. If you decide it’s not worth it and leave, there’ll always be another sucker ready to crank the handle.”

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  18. 🙂 depends on the kind of woman you meet…

    Not all women are bitchy, needful lumps of emotions. Some of them make incredible partners and companions for life.

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  21. The not cheating thing is much harder for women, in that (in general) they have many more opportunities. For example when I go to the grocery store, or a quick trip to Dunkin Donuts, there is at least one, sometimes as many as 10 (if I go to the grocery store on a busy day) guys trying to talk to me, that would be completely willing to go into the bathroom and have sex with me. These guys range from hot teenagers to old men that aren’t much to look at but appear to be financially secure. But I don’t do it because “I’m not suppose to”, because my husband expects me to not just as I expect him to not do one of the ugly chicks he works with (hot young secretaries are not as common as one would think, I encounter many more hot people as a stay-at-home mom than my husband does at work, and than I did when I worked), and mainly because I don’t want to and would rather go home and fuck my husband – if I were to fuck one of those other guys and divorce, sure I would get half his stuff, but I’d rather have him there to fuck.

    And I’m not young and pristine, I am nearly 30 and have 4 kids, 2 I gave birth to and 2 from my husband’s previous marriage (which I am “expected to” take care of as well, but that’s okay, because 1. I love them the same as the two I gave birth to and 2. I knew that was a condition of being with my husband, and I’m willing to do that to be with him). The number of guys hitting on me does not go down based on how many kids I have with me at the time. I don’t know any woman that would go up to a man that is getting 3 kids out of car seats, while waiting for a slightly older one to go grab a shopping cart, and ask for his number. I have never seen that happen. (Maybe that is because women generally hunt of money rather than for sex, and know a guy with 4 kids isn’t going to have money to dote on a woman?) Yet I am surprised by men doing it to me all the time. I know the “meme” is that guys don’t want women that have kids or are over 25, but it just isn’t true.

    Women are also “suppose to” sacrifice their bodies to birth kids, and many are expected to give up their careers to raise those kids. And then supposedly they are used up and no men wants them, so they can’t get a job, they can’t get a man – what are they suppose to do then? They are “suppose to” give up sex for a guy that spends money on dates with them, yet they are “suppose to” not be a slut so that they can find a husband. Yes women do have it much easier than men in today’s society, but the list of life-changing sacrifices that women are “suppose to” do is just as long as it is for men, and just as unappreciated.

    A good relationship would have both people are making sacrifices and the other appreciating those sacrifices. If that is not the common way things go nowadays, this is just as much the fault of men for giving in to spoiled women as it is the women for being spoiled like this. Little girls see their fathers giving in to their mothers, see that relationship where the man is just there to give the women the money, house etc. she wants, so grow up to expect the same, and find many guys ready and willing to do the same. If men pass those spoiled women up and wait until they find one of the less common women that are willing to sacrifice, that actually want to be with someone they love and want to fuck, the spoiled women will start to die out.

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  28. I find your arguments to be mostly valid, because as a woman, I do see much of the many issues you pointed out, women complaining so much about an ideal version of men, women being opportunistic lovers, being incapapble of appreciation. However, you as a man, have failed to see that this not a gender issue, so much as a patriarchy issue.

    Yes, women, having been present for the establishment of this society, have had many failings in the realm of men, dealing with men, raising men, and loving men. We have not failed because we are women, sir, or as a result of feminism, we are struggling and making only the slightest headway, as a result of a patriarchal system that itself idealizes men, forces us to idealize men, and at the same time, shows men in their most unfavorable, inhumane light. A system that tells men they are successful simply for existing on this planet, is a pretty bad precedent to set for the women who physically put you here. Secondly, because women have put you here with their physical bodies, make love to you in order to produce more of you, it’s obvious that women already come with an inherent ideal of you. Of course we want you to be intelligent and strong, and worthy of our love, but how does one express appreciation to a man who is already filled with his own sense of entitlement, by default?

    “Men making the personal sacrifices necessary to honor, respect and love her are commonplace. You’re supposed to do those things. You sacrificed your ambitions and potential to provide her with a better life? You were supposed to. You resisted temptation and didn’t cheat on your wife with the hot secretary who was DTF and ready to go? You were supposed to. Your responsibilities to maintaining a marriage, a home, your family, etc. are common – they’re expected. They are only appreciated in their absence.”

    None of these ideals were technically set out by a group of women, though possibly propagated by women as we began to realize where our powers lie, namely in sex and home life. Women, as a result of patriarchy, have neccessarily had to make the sacrifice of their feminine selves to get ahead, taking on traditionally “male” roles to do those things. You made a claim that women are always operating from their feminine core, however, you’d be wrong. How does a woman operate from a core that’s being constantly shat on, told it’s not good enough, told it’s trivial and wasteful, parasitic, and worse, only as good as the vagina it’s attached to? Are you serious? Women didn’t ask men to sacrifice their goals,ambitions, and potential. Making that kind of sacrifice would mean sacrificing your very self as a man, and that’s exactly what men did. The sacrifice of going to work to make everyone financially secure is NOT a struggle women can’t appreciate. In fact, I’d go so far as to say that women MORE than appreciate that particular sacrifice, but are failing to see that the larger sacrifice has been exactly what you pointed out. Potential and ambition, which is not the fault of women, it’s the fault of men for being that ridiculously ignorant. If you don’t cheat on your wife, it’s not because you’re not supposed to. It’s because women falsely believe they own their husbands, because we live in a wolrd that explicitly states that we are owned BY you. Since you have the privelege of falsely believing that you own our genitalia, by virtue of a measley piece of paper, how do you not expect women to want you to be even MORE faithful? Of course she doesn’t WANT you to cheat on her, but most women are never so upset by the act of sex, as the fact that men are notoriously dishonest when it happens. Again, your ideas of how women think are terribly skewed, and if after 15 years of marriage these are still your conclusions, you’re really not a mature man at all.

    You made the point that women are opportunistic. Really? You don’t say? In a world that explicitly defines a woman’s worth by the man she’s attached to, you’d think women would take all the time in the world to find one, right? Well, not if your financial and social security depend on it! You are absolutely correct sir, women tend to be opportunistic, because we HAVE to be if we want our lives to be easier. Yes, the result may be 15 years of a marriage that ends in a terrible blog about a gender I know nothing about, however, the fact remains that you are addressing issues that are the result of a very real system that’s been in place for a very long time. Blaming women and propagating the idea that women will never be capable of fully appreciating men is THE MOST damaging, ignorant pack of bullshit you could possibly spread. Not only that, I’m 26 years old, happily married to a great man, and I must tell you, yeah, we worked, A LOT for this relationship. Saying that the relationship takes work is not a myth, you imbecile. Did you make it 15 years by magic and your penis? I thought not.

    And it seems that you still have not acheived the spiritual or even mental maturity we’re trying to get you to cultivate. You know why men usually need the most work in relationships? Because they need the most emotional work, period. That’s really kind of a big duh. Women are generally mature because we have to learn to be both men and women in a world that wants us to be both and neither. Every standard that is in place for women, was put there by patriarchy, every standard placed on men by women is there because you’re all still failing miserably to be the men you THINK you are, but clearly aren’t mature enough to be in real life.

  29. “Saying that the relationship takes work is not a myth, you imbecile. … You know why men usually need the most work in relationships? Because they need the most emotional work, period. … Every standard that is in place for women, was put there by patriarchy, every standard placed on men by women is there because you’re all still failing miserably to be the men you THINK you are, but clearly aren’t mature enough to be in real life.”

    Rolling… on… the… floor… laughing.

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  32. Bionical’s comment is retarded. As a woman, she cannot understand that “custody battles” are always more painful for the man because while the woman only cares about her own feelings, the man is concerned about the welfare OF THE CHILDREN. That is the burden of a good man.

  33. Rollo takes the dying man out and he wouldn’t have fun… “All he could talk about was his resentment of his wife’s treatment of him “after all he’d done for her over the years”.

    For me, that was the hardest part of internalizing the red pill. I’ve read Rollo’s “Appreciation” post at least ten times. Even more than the way woman love (or don’t love), that fundamental inability to appreciate the endless, tedious, little shit things we do is what drove me nuts. It seems totally opposite to basic humanity; how difficult is a heart felt “Thank you, I appreciate it”.

    From Rollo:


    “I think what most men uniquely deceive themselves of is that they will ultimately be appreciated by women for their sacrifices. Learn this now, you won’t. You can’t be because women fundamentally lack the ability to fully realize, much less appreciate the sacrifices a man makes to facilitate her reality. Even the most enlightened, appreciative woman you know still operates in a feminne-centric reality. Men making the personal sacrifices necessary to honor, respect and love her are commonplace. You’re supposed to do those things. You sacrificed your ambitions and potential to provide her with a better life? You were supposed to. You resisted temptation and didn’t cheat on your wife with the hot secretary who was DTF and ready to go? You were supposed to. Your responsibilities to maintaining a marriage, a home, your family, etc. are common – they’re expected. They are only appreciated in their absence.

    I’m still coming to grips with that, but if any Blue Pill man can truly accept it; you’re almost home.”

  34. How do men want to be shown women appreciate them?? Whether it be a neighbor offering to help me move furniture or a boyfriend buying used tires on EBay for me, I always thanked them, told them how much their help was appreciated, offered to pay them, etc. However, if I realized we just were not a good match and tried to end a relationship before getting in too deep or didn’t respond in a way a neighbor, etc expected, the guy would ALWAYS throw it up in my face about “how much he did for me.” It makes me not even want to accept help or gifts from men because I dread the reaction I will get if I don’t magically respond in the ‘secret code’. (Sex is understood with a boyfriend but the neighbor can forget it…) Whenever I offer to pay for their help, they refuse and get insulted. What gives?

    I’m 51 years old, size 8, look like I’m 38, never married and have never been interested in having kids. Perhaps the reason I’ve never been married (more often than not, my choice) is because I haven’t discovered the best way to show appreciation to a man in a respectful way he truly resonates with. I realize my options for marriage are slim at this point because most men my age want a 30 year old, size 2 with a boob job, but I really would like to be able to understand men and their boundaries.

    Can anyone offer helpful suggestions?

    1. @Alexis, read this man’s story:

      My wife called me today and was all excited about some beachfront apartment she saw. She wants us to buy it for vacations and such.

      Now here I am .. I just turned 50. My youngest is going to college this year and I guess I just realized that I’m no longer bound to her.

      The last 20 years has been a long series of quickies and 3 minutes handjobs every 3-4 weeks. In between, I spent my prime sexual years mostly masturbating to get off. Now that I’m 50, my drive is still good, but it’s not what it was.

      I had tried everything I could think of over those 20 years to get things on track. I was exemplary with chores around the house, I was attentive to her emotional needs as far as I could anticipate them, and even if I do say so myself – I’ve kept myself in outstanding shape (although that was more for me).

      On the other hand, I look back and I can hardly remember a time that she spontaneously gave me a neck rub, or cooked something just for me as opposed to all of us, and certainly not even attempting to do something special for me sexually (yeah, I have a minor kink or two).

      But when she asked me to buy a beachfront place today – my immediate reaction was annoyance. I realized then that I feel resentful. I have decided to leave her. There is absolutely nothing she can do now to change anything because the past cannot be changed.

      Now, imagine you know this man’s wife at 29 y.o., what would you tell this woman to do to show her appreciation and respect to her husband? How would you tell her she could make him feel special?

  35. @Alexis Men, being humans, are individuals. They want appreciation expressed in different ways. It’s obvious your neighbor wants it expressed via sex, while your boyfriends seem to have wanted long-term commitment (with whatever that included for each man). But something that is pretty much universal is that they don’t want to be taken advantage of; and though you’re probably not setting out to do this, it’s what you are doing if you are accepting favors and gifts and not giving them what they want in return.

    Offering them money when they’re expecting sex, love, commitment, etc. is like a man offering you money after sex when you’re expecting cuddles.

    Men, again being humans, are also not delusional. They know that 30 year old size 2s with boob jobs are fantasies; that’s what they want when they look at porn, but they know it’s not reality for an average man in his 50s to date them. You’re ahead of the game if you’re truly a size 8, look 38 and have no stretchmarks from childbearing. Your age/weight/boobsize isn’t the problem; the problem is you are all take and no give (at least not of what the men actually want).

    So my suggestion would be: before accepting gifts and favors, before making a man your boyfriend, FIRST find out what he wants, what he expects from the relationship, and if you’re compatible. At 51, you know what you want out of life and in a partner (and if you don’t, you need to figure that out first); discuss that honestly with a man before accepting anything from him.

    If you aren’t willing to give him what he wants, or if you aren’t compatible; then put on your big girl panties and drive over to Tire Barn, where you can be sure all they expect in exchange for tires is money.

    1. Thanks so much for the reply. If you don’t mind, I would like to delve a little deeper into the subject and get more specific examples as to what to say to a man to get him to honestly open up and tell me what he wants/expects and how to show appreciation to a man who isn’t a boyfriend, whether he be a coworker, neighbor, etc and offers help in some way. If he says I don’t need to pay him, then should I just refuse the help assuming he wants sex or can you give me a good example of something else a man would appreciate in return?

      To clarify, the boyfriend I was referring to had been dating me for two years, during which time had several women on the side while telling me he wanted to be monogamous. I thanked him profusely for the tires at the time, but when the relationship ended he brought up anything he had done for me (I have never asked a man to buy me anything) and threw it in my face. My next door neighbor is married to a very nice woman and had told me no man should stand by as a single woman tries to load a moving truck and not help. I was so grateful when I thought there were still gentlemen around and thanked him profusely, gave him an expensive framed piece of art and antique chest as tokens of my appreciation. He told me to ask him for help if I ever needed anything in the future, so when I purchased a sofa from a woman online, I texted him and asked if he would help us unload it and he didn’t respond. Instead, he trashed me behind my back telling people, “Look at everything I’ve done for her.” I guess he felt taken advantage of in some way, but I believed him when he said to call if I needed anything.

      Most of my life, I have just gone without if I cannot afford a delivery service (or Tire Barn, Lol) for something because I can’t stand the drama of trying to read between the lines with people. Various ‘dating experts’ say men truly want to help and provide for women and make us happy as long as women show appreciation. (really?) But, if men won’t communicate just how they want us to show that appreciation, it becomes a very frustrating guessing game, similar to men wanting women to communicate what pleases them in bed.

      In South Florida, you will see loads of men 50’s-60’s dating a women in their 30’s. I have a friend in his 50’s who got taken by a Russian girl. I tried to warn him about their scam and that she would disappear when the money ran out, but he wouldn’t listen and insisted she was different. He was so enamored, thinking a beautiful woman was truly interested in him….sure enough, the money ran out and she was gone. I see a lot of men in their 60’s walking around with joint custody of young kids because the 30 year olds, size 2 with the boob jobs talk them into having kids, then dump them a few years later because they’re too old. Perhaps this usually just happens in L.A. and Miami….At least the guys who look at porn get off a lot cheaper! (unless they become addicted)

      1. ” I thanked him profusely for the tires at the time, but when the relationship ended he brought up anything he had done for me (I have never asked a man to buy me anything) and threw it in my face.”

        Well, the relationship ended and you still had the tires (and whatever else he’d given and done for you). All he had was a wasted 2 years. It’s understandable he’d be upset about that, even though you didn’t ask for the tires.

        It seems to me like that neighbor wanted friendship from someone that wasn’t a risk of trying to bang his wife. When he said “call if you need anything” he probably didn’t mean “call ONLY if you need anything” but more “let’s be friends and THEN you can call if you need anything.” Men don’t usually want material items and money as a show of appreciation (except from their employer); that’s what women want.

        Or maybe his wife is nice but just won’t have sex and he DID want sex and you asked for something else before clarifying that. *shrug* I don’t know the guy. You should have asked HIM what he really wanted.

        Yes, refuse help and gifts if they will not tell you what they want from the relationship first. Don’t even get to the point where the guy has access to your car to change the tires before knowing what you both expect from the relationship. Don’t put the neighbor’s number in your phone until you know what he wants.

        You decided not to “settle down” 20 years ago; that’s fine, but when you made that decision, you were also making the decision to take care of yourself. You can’t have it both ways; not settling down when you’re 30 and showing appreciation to a man for 20 years, yet still having a man buy your tires and move your furniture when you’re 50. If you made that choice and didn’t spend those 20 years getting to the point that you can do and pay for everything you need yourself, you majorly screwed up!

        At this point I would say forget the boyfriends and neighbors and focus on learning to take care of yourself. That may mean earning more money, or it may mean learning to buy tires off ebay and change them yourself.

        Once you get to the point where you are actually self-sufficient, you can then think “What do I have to OFFER a man?” not including looks, material items, nor your vag (because every ciswoman can offer him that). Then be honest with men about that on the first date (while going Dutch, and before taking any gifts or help from the man).

        1. That’s good advice, thank you. I knew those “dating coaches” were full of it. It’s better to get the real truth from a man! I’ve never been one to throw things up in my boyfriends’ face of things I’ve done for them or keep score with it, regardless if the relationship works out or doesn’t. If I want to do something nice for someone, I’ll just do it without expecting anything in return. If I expect something, then I’ll communicate that to keep things fair. I realize now not everyone is like that, but I still don’t regret favors I’ve done or gifts given, no matter how the other person treated me. It was my decision to do it, good or bad. Good investment or bad investment.In my 30’s & 40’s I owned businesses, homes, etc. with MY hard earned money. I got engaged

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  38. Excellent article. The homily of one aislinnblowkisses had the vitiolic male shaming and bashing ive come to expect from womyn wif issues, especially with the coded evil patriarchy bantered about. This is the shriek of 3rd wave feminism, and does not engender (typically ) male love and affection. Yet this poster claims a happy straight marriage:

    Not only that, I’m 26 years old, happily married to a great man, and I must tell you, yeah, we worked, A LOT for this relationship. Saying that the relationship takes work is not a myth, you imbecile. Did you make it 15 years by magic and your penis? I thought not.

    Wow! Imbecile? Magic penis? Married to a man? Poor bastard!

    Um no. Basically f.o.s. lesbian(s) trashing men in general, lying (surprised? ), to gain “street creds” in a usually straight/male forum.
    The feminist community (and this lying lesbian)very much promotes and supports the “patriarchy” and more so than most men! To-finally- have purpose!
    The great lie that women have taken to shaming men, in this case, angrily into a quiescent and silence to female biological behavior , except that is the Patriarchy’s fault.
    At least, wymyn, be honest when posting. Your credibility is 0.
    (QQuote taken from post provided by :

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  42. Amazing post. Thank you.

    The guy from the loveshack forum hit it out of the park. When I think back on my relationships and my marriage I see a guy who tried so hard to do a million little things to make his exes feel appreciated and loved.

    I’m not big on pricey gifts because I believe(d) that nothing beats a personal touch, be it a homemade gift or a back rub. I’m big on touch so for me coming up to my wife from behind as she was doing dishes or brushing her teeth and hugging her and telling her I love her was the ultimate. And it’s not like she didn’t enjoy it. To me that is appreciation. Tangible words and deeds. How no one else understands this is beyond me. It’s beyond gender. Beyond the game. Beyond all this hairsplitting.

    Guys may joke about wanting to come home to a wife all laced up and ready to blow him at the door; and there is nothing wrong with dreaming about this or enjoying it if and when it happens.

    However I’m willing to bet that on most days most men want nothing more than a spontaneous massage, or a sneaky come from behind hug and an I love you whispered in their ear. Or a special meal obviously made with forethought and caring. Men are not complicated. Women like to make them so to promote their drama.

    I can count on one hand the number of times my exes did any of these things. Ya sure they said thanks if I helped them throw out a used mousetrap and ya some of them even laced up and blew me at the door. What none of them did was view me as simply another human being with basic human wants. To be held. Hugged. Told they are loved without saying it first or having to ask. To be fucking touched spontaneously out of sincere affection. I did these things daily. Sometimes hourly. On top of doing all the expected sacrifices Rollo mentions above. Getting it in return was like pulling teeth. And MEN are supposed to be the ones that are stingy with emotions and affection?

    Needless to say, those days are over. I am now RP and MGTOW and will not waste another second of life trying to show appreciation to a woman.

    When I first began studying the RP world I came across the notion of women having no empathy for men, being literally unable to HAVE empathy for men, I refused to believe it. Then I started seeing it daily. At home. Work. In the news. Everywhere. Not all women, but way too many to ignore. A VAST majority. That’s when I knew I’d likely never be close to a woman again.

    It’s 2am. I’m tired. I don’t even know if this makes sense. After reading this post however I had to say something beyond just thank you.

  43. Anyone who’s a dad can relate… You do crazy shit for your kids, you sacrifice, you go out of your way to give your kids amazing EXPENSIVE life experiences, yet in the end they appreciate nothing and even find fault with you and complain.

    I’m a divorced dad. When I call my kids they’re too busy to talk to me. “Dad can i call you back tomorrow? The Flash is on i dont want to miss it.” tomorrow never comes. When their with me, two weekenfs out of the month they’re texting their mother or calling her to checking in. 2 weeks will go by and they dont even think about calling me.

    65% of my pay goes to child support. The rest of my disposable income goes to taking my kids out to fun places. My ex talks non stop shit about me to them and thats all they know. Thay dont know im eating canned beans for dinner all week cause i need to save enough $ to take em to chopstix for dumplings & noodles when i pick em up on friday just bc i know they like it.

    I had a zen moment a long time ago where i realized they will NEVER appreciate the sacrifices i make, and beyond that they will somehow find something to resent me about. Who the fuck knows, maybe we all do that w our dads.

    All i know is its much easier and healthier to let go of hoping to be appreciated and acknowledged. .. By our women, by our kids, and by anyone, Which im grasping that this post is in essence telling us…

    Btw i just discovered your blog and im eating it up… You are the “one”

    This post got me remembering something i heard Joseph Campbell talk about while addressing the topic of love… To paraphrase: when you get married you are willfully sacrificing yourself to the relationship… That is, you are no longer an individual, your identity is now a part of this whole which you created by joining w this person you have chosen to marry.

    Like deida says, give your gifts fully and let go

  44. “aislinnblowkisses” is hilarious–the caricature of the stunningly non-self-aware solipsistic female feminist.

  45. There seems to be a lot of confusion about how a woman shows appreciation but it’s so, so much simpler than all this. You can’t prescribe it, but you know it when you see it. Girls can’t help but show it when it is earned.

    My fondest memories are still those few unsolicited moments when she communicated without a shadow of a doubt that she was in love with me. The time she picked me up after a deployment a little tipsy and nervous and couldn’t keep her hands off me in the back seat… the time she dropped her bags in the airport and ran and jumped into my arms… the time I surprised her at home and she cried for five minutes trying to squeeze the life out of me.

    Notice a trend? In hindsight I see a reinforcement of what Athol Kay says about men with “highly confident” or “alpha” jobs:

    It’s extremely non-boring for a wife to worry that her husband could be potentially seriously injured or killed and the accompanying relief afterwards totally feeds whatever sense of emotional stimulation she needs to experience.
    -The Married Man Sex Life Primer

    Obviously guys who deploy for long periods and are “heroes” in their girls’ eyes to begin with are often going to experience a very validating cycle of “being missed”, and being appreciated on their return. However, I think it’s a distraction from something else that goes on under the surface. Neither I nor she knew it in the past few years we had to deal with times apart, but in a red pill context, there are a lot of alpha tells being communicated when a man deploys- it involves being unavailable, being mysterious, having one’s life moving forward in your own direction, having a life that is more important than her, even being gone long enough that she can imagine elements of dread (game type here).

    Sure a lot of guys might really be hoping for a blowjob after an afternoon helping out the neighbor, but first of all, the majority of those guys seem like creepy, desperate, low SMV types just trying to negotiate their way into being rewarded.

    The real appreciation a man like me wants is to see those irrepressible tears from his special someone because she worships him and would do anything to keep from losing him. I know that bleeds into Beta territory, as far as deriving validation from feminine attention, but it’s a powerful feedback loop in an LTR, and it does not negate the fact that it was the Alpha traits I demonstrated (even if by coincidence), that drove her into such deep conversion that her emotions betray themselves.

    Is that coherent enough? I feel like I’ve rambled…

  46. I agree with you that women do not show enough appreciation to men. BUT you surely can see it goes both ways? If not then you sure a male-centric!

    How about mothers who never get appreciated for carrying a child inside them for 9 months, squezing it out, destroying their body and neither regions. And caring for that child etc etc. And do not get appreciation, nor by males or famles, because its her JOb as a mother. But if a male stays at home with his child. Changes diapers, takes paternal leave takes his child to the playground or for a stroll in the carry, that man will get sooo many appreciative comments from malaes and females! WTF?!

    So yeah, or sociaty is what it. And both males and females does not get appreciation, when its something they “suppose” to do, by sociaties standards.

  47. @R – That’s not even what he says. Rollo doesn’t complain or insist that women should change… in any of these posts. He points out that men and women have fundamentally different capacities to empathize because they have fundamentally different wiring.

    But you are surprised that we are male-centric? It’s called

  48. “How about mothers who never get appreciated for carrying a child inside them for 9 months, squezing it out, destroying their body and neither regions. And caring for that child etc etc. And do not get appreciation, nor by males or famles, because its her JOb as a mother.”

    Who do you expect the appreciation to come from, in that circumstance? You carried a child, squeezed it out, and destroyed your body FOR YOURSELF – because you wanted to become a mother. If that’s not what you wanted, you – and only you – had the power to make it not happen (abstinence, birth control, abortion). Even if your partner wants kids, you can refuse to carry them yourself (surrogate mother, adoption). MAYBE you can ask for some appreciation from the child, but even then, you can’t expect it because they didn’t ask to be born. If you have a kid, then hell yes you are supposed to take care of it without expecting appreciation! And while this goes for both men and women, women are ultimately the only ones who get to choose if a child results from mutually agreed upon (and presumably, mutually enjoyed) sex.

    Those comments from people at the playground are not appreciation. He’s not doing something for the people at the playground by taking his kid there; they have nothing to appreciate. Those comments are just an observation that he’s doing something outside of the norm. (And maybe it *shouldn’t* be outside of the norm, and is becoming more common than it used to be, but the fact of the matter is it’s still outside of what the average person expects and therefore is of note.) As a young-looking homeschooling mother, I get comments when I take my kids out during school hours or when I’m out with the kid that I look too young to be the mother of.

  49. I’m 20 years old and this is the best advice i’ve ever received about marriage. I’m actually looking forward to it now that I know what to expect and what not to even dream about.

  50. I first learnt that I would not be appreciated in life right back to my school days when I must have only been 7 years old or so.

    I was one of the kids that behaved themselves in class and just kept his head down and did his work. Then there were the kids who misbehaved consistently.

    The teachers had a chart on the wall with star stickers to acknowledge good behavior. I did not have any stars on the chart, nor did any of the other well behaved kids. The kids that misbehaved had several stars. This is because their good behavior, when merited, was depicted against their bad behavior so shined through when they did behave. As I behaved myself consistently, it went unmerited because there was nothing to merit it against (i.e. bad behavior). I even pointed this out to the teacher who then gave me a sympathy sticker and laughed it off as if I was just butt hurt at not having any stickers. I was actively ridiculed for actively pointing this out.

    This example then dovetails nicely into the concept that women reward strength not what is right or wrong. In my example above, it could be argued that it is actually rewarding bad behavior due to the good behavior (me) being unmerited. If my consistent good behavior was appreciated then that would be completely different.

    Appreciation happens when there is a change not when something is expected, and in today’s feminine primary social order what you sacrifice is just expected. There is no change so it goes unmerited.

    I come from a good family and couldn’t believe it when I heard that my cousin was entering a relationship with a recovering ex convict. With my red pill lens, I can see exactly why now. My cousin works with recovering ex convicts to rehabilitate them back into society so she actively saw the strength of him overcoming his problems and getting back to a functioning member of society. She was rewarding his strength with her affections. There was a change in behavior.

    Appreciation doesn’t fall in line on a scale of what is good or bad but rather when there is a change. Ironically, what I am trying to say is that it would be better to set the bar low and show you becoming a better person than to just be that better person. I know how illogical that sounds, but again it falls in line with women being more emotional than logical. If you do everything right, everything you would expect would be appreciated of you you won’t be because there is no change to be appreciated.

  51. The article is spot on. But what should I do about this now? I sacrifice. I do invest in the relationship and my family. But there is never a return on this investment. So why should I do it?

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