The Mature Man

I recently got into an interesting debate as to the reasonings why mature men tend to opt for younger women with whom to settle down with. As is to be expected from femme-screech and their mangina enablers the social shaming mechanisms abounded. Most of these are some variation of the “men’s fragile egos” canard or the “a real man would want to get with a woman his own age” trope. This quote pretty much summed up the opposing point:

Older guys want to bang college-age girls for the same reason that many older women like dating younger guys: to live in a state of suspended youth and be reminded that they “still have it”.

I half-agree. Older women definitely want to think they “still have it”, with regards to their capacity to hold the attention of younger guys they find themselves in competition with younger women for. However, older men who naturally pursue younger women come to realize that they’ve “finally got it”. Why wouldn’t a guy of 40 have a natural preference for the younger woman after reaching a level of maturity and accomplishment that allows him this? Professional women tied to the male template of life’s progression tend to think that they too should be entitled to the sexual attraction of ‘eligible’ men by virtue of their mature achievements, status, intellect and some imagined sense of knowing themselves better. They are mistaken.

The Associations of Maturity

First off,  it’s a mistake to just peg 40 y.o.s in this demographic. There are plenty of early to mid thirties guys that can and do pull girls 5 to 8 years younger than themselves regularly. Funny how there’s little shaming stigma with that age difference. It’s not a man’s physical age so much as what the age represents (or is perceived to) – maturity, accomplishment, better provisioning capacity, status, etc. Do ALL men actually realize these to their satisfaction by this time? Of course not, but it’s the perception that they SHOULD have actualized this that is the attractant in comparison to younger guys who haven’t, nor would really be expected to. Mature Men represent this perception of assumed accomplishment and security – exactly what women are looking for in a phase of life where their sexual marketability declines and their need for long term provisioning becomes more urgent..

Second, understand that the incidence of 30-40 y.o. men remaining single up to this time of life is far lower. Most guys (AFCs in particular) are already engaged by 25 y.o. and or have been serial monogamists up to this point. For all the recent hand wringing about ‘kidult’ men not manning up and marrying women, rare is the guy who remains single into his late 30s. At this point he’s either divorced once or on marriage number two. Still fewer come into the realization of their own vastly increased sexual market value assuming they’ve managed to stay in shape and accomplish things financially, emotionally and maturity-wise up to this point and THEN use this to their own advantage with younger women. An interesting aside here is that men get berated for being peter-pans in their late 20s for not living up to female entitlement, then get the same treatment for marrying younger women when they do mature into Men. This is a glaring illustration of the female imperative at work.

Now add to that a constant feminine social contrivance telling them they have “fragile egos” or shames them for dating young chippys (i.e. future trophy brides) instead of mature women (generally single mothers) with all their accompanying baggage. Unsurprisingly we see in most cultures older males striving for the attentions of the younger and more atractive females, but in western culture he becomes vilified and shamed for this – or at least that’s what western feminized women would like to be the case. The most common complaint women in their mid-thirties bemoan is that “There’s no good men” or they can’t understand why men just can’t “grow up”. Increasingly ‘career women’ desiring to finally start a family at age 35 find that men – particularly the ones that meet their provisioning criteria – in their age range (33-38) are not interested in women (to say nothing of ‘career women’) of their age. They’re interested in the 22 year olds who wouldn’t give them the time of day when they didn’t have the status (or maturity) that they’ve just discovered they now have. And of course the 35 year old career woman was one of these 22 year old girls, only 13 years prior, who was doing precisely the same thing the 22 year old girls are doing today.

Mid-Life Crisis Epiphany

These Men are not trying to relive anything; they’re newly aware of their own sexual market value – and nothing both frightens and attracts a woman so well as a Man aware of his own value. That’s the foundation of confidence. This represents a problem for women though. They want a Man with the confidence and maturity (derived from experience) to make important decisions, be an initiator, a good provider, etc., but not SO confident that he weighs his options and selects her out of his provisioning for a competing woman based on his primary requisite of sexual experience. So to counter this, the feminine creates social conventions that shame a Man for considering a woman too much younger than herself. This has the latent purpose of leveling the playing field in order for her to compete with women who are younger, hotter and more sexually available. He has to be kept ignorant of the whole process, but still ashamed enough into thinking his desire for the young and attractive mid 20s girl makes him “juvenile” or he has a “fragile ego”, or he’s “trying to recapture his youth”. The feminine reality demands he be dissuaded from pursuing his interests in favor of women’s sexual strategies, and the best way to do that is to slime his intersets as disgusting:

To most college-age girls, a guy in his 40s (even 30s) and up is usually the “creepy old man,” even if he takes good care of himself. The old guy usually ends up trying to fit into the young girl’s world instead of the other way around.

This is the Creepy Old Man tactic. I don’t necessarily disagree with this, however I think it’s contextual. I’m regularly at events (mixers, clubs, promos, vodka nights, etc.) as part of my work where I’m approached by much younger women. If the 40 y.o. guy is perceived to be attempting to “fit in” with that age’s social peers, then you’re absolutely correct. The disconnect comes from a man who’d otherwise be perceived as possessing the attributes he should have for his age trying to retrograde himself into another age’s social profile. THAT’S when he becomes the “old guy in the club”. When I’m on promos, or out socially as part of my job, I NEVER attempt to ‘backdate’ myself style-wise, linguistically, etc. If you’re attractive, the girls who want to associate with a mature Man will find you.

I work in the alcohol / spirits industry and as part of this I travel internationally about 3-4 times a year. I’m at bars, events, conventions, martini clubs and mixers fairly often. And with the exception of a few men older than myself, I’m a senior in my company and older by 5 to 10 years than most of the people I interact with. In all honesty, I find people my own age or in their mid 40s, and particularly women, insufferably boring.

Men become happier than women by mid-life and for the most part I think I can see why. Most women in their late 30s to mid 40s are, for the most part, chronic complainers. After going through the high drama phases of her 20s, into kids, marriages and divorces in her 30s, women tend to content themselves languishing in this dissatisfaction that her fantasy life isn’t panning out. Nothing measures up to the perceived ideals she thinks are her due. Most women in western culture who find themselves single at 38-42 are there after an earlier life that didn’t go as planned. They almost universally carry some kind of baggage. Can they be attractive? Uncommonly, but yes. However it’s a mistake to assume older (or at least age level peers) women to be more intellectually equitable with older men and therefore more compatible choices for LTRs / marriage. I’m sorry if this comes off as glossing myself, but honestly, I’ve encountered very few women I can relate to intellectually or that I’d consider equal in my particular interests, my life experiences, my passions, etc.

I wish this didn’t sound like conceit on my part because, in all humility, I think the better part of what I find important is really pretty mundane. It’s not that I hold a low opinion of women’s capacity to be more intellectually equitable; it’s simply their own general indifference to even trying to relate to that in comparison to their own distractions. I don’t think women (and particularly 35-40 y.o. women) feel it’s incumbent upon them to HAVE to be a good mate, intellectually stimulating, or a good mother, or even a good sexual partner for a Man’s consideration. I’d attribute most of that to the female sense of entitlement / victimhood that permeates feminine popular culture, but also to men and women’s interests really being disparate. In other words, with the extraordinarily rare exception, women will NEVER put forth the same effort a man will for a woman to better identify herself with his interests for the explicit purpose of being a better mate for him.

“Mature” Women

Obviously a more mature woman will have a greater urgency to settle into the long term provisioning security that marriage provides her, but this urgency gets confused with actual maturity. Just because a woman is more motivated to start a family and enter into a more traditionally domestic life doesn’t mean she’s an intellectual or mature equal, nor does it make her more compatible with you in this sense. It simply means she is more motivated to do so based on her conditions of diminishing sexual value.

I think on some level of consciousness, older, more mature men who’ve spent a good portion of their lives dealing with the experiences that create this baggage for older women, recognize a necessity to distance themselves from it. After making the sacrifices, and avoiding (or not) the pitfalls that he must to become the healthy, mature and accomplished man that older women complain are in such short supply, I think it’s pretty matter of fact to seek out a younger, hotter, more sexually available woman with little to no baggage. The counter to this is the feminine social contrivances of shame that I’ve already covered earlier.

Men on a basic functioning level are pragmatists, even when we do allow our emotions to get the better of us. One tenet we maintain is an understanding that women tend to operate from an emotional level, whereas men tend to operate from deductive reasoning. And while a hot piece of ass is it’s own motivation, I think on some level, after the necessary experiences, sacrifices and time it takes to get to a point of personal maturity, we see a younger woman with less baggage as a sort of double bonus. If I were to find myself single tomorrow, this would be exactly my motivation. Why would I invest my considerable capacity for financial, emotional, intellectual and security provisioning into complicating my own life with a woman fraught with the baggage of her own failings and inconsistencies of the last 10-15 years? For what I’ve become myself and what I know is valuable, why would I not look for a simplification considering what was required of me to get to that maturity? If middle age men are happier than women at this stage of life, it’s because they’ve arrived at a place where they don’t feel the need to qualify themselves to women any longer.

A rich man doesn’t need to tell you he’s rich. You can see it in his appearance, his mannerisms, his bearing. The same is true for a mature Man. In his maturity he’s comfortable in the knowledge that he doesn’t need to prove it by qualifying himself to a social contrivance that’s counter to his own self-interest and his well being.


70 responses to “The Mature Man

  • A.B. Dada

    Good timing for this topic.

    2 years ago, I met a beautiful and fun 18 year old while I was doing business in Central America. I was 35 at the time. We hooked up for that long weekend and stayed in touch off and on from then, but never really found ourselves in the same place at the same time.

    Of course, my guy friends high-fived me for hooking up with a gal half my age (and a beautiful and very feminine one at that), but MOST of my female friends were aghast — only the younger ones (early 20s) were supportive.

    I recently spent a few days with the same gal, now 20, while traveling Europe. In those 2 years I’ve added quite a bit of wrinkles to my face, my hair is about 10% white, my beard is 50% white, but I’m in much better physical shape and even had a late-age growth spurt (added almost 1″ to my height). She actually became more beautiful (something about Spanish-latin women), and I we got ZERO stunned looks of disgust from the Europeans who we came across.

    Her comments on my looks were those of a woman with massive attraction: she loved my white hair, my wrinkles, the way I carried myself. She was constantly touching me, commenting on my masculinity, etc.

    The funny thing is, her boyfriend is 22, very tall, very wealthy, absolutely gorgeous and sporty and “desirable” but her complaints about how he’s too boyish were very hilarious to me.

    In the past 2 years I’ve gone out with more women 19-22 than I think I did 10 years ago. I never spend money on them, I never compliment them, I never even bring up our age difference at all — and they rarely do either. If anything, their friends who criticize me always end up being jealous of the gals I’m seeing because I hold my frame well and I’m masculine, versus the young boys they’re all being chased by, bored with.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    Apologies for the “wall of text” but I was on a roll this morning.

  • samseau

    Latin-american chicks, columbians in particular, love older men.

    In America I suspect a large percentage of younger women prefer older men, but, due to the sheer volume of shrieking aging spinsters, these girls keep their preferences hidden.

    H.L. Mencken, for example, married an 18 yr old at 38.

    Look up “the marriage zone” by solomon II for more on this.

  • samseau

    Actually, Rollo, your writing organization has improved considerably since starting this blog. The sub-headers and shorter paragraphs hook readers effortlessly.

    The next step is to improve the layout of the blog itself. I think this blog would benefit from the kind of layout zerohedge uses, given the volume of your posts, with a short intro paragraph heading each post and requiring the reader to click on “read more” to see the entire article. The pic can remain as-is.

    This way, new readers will be able to see a wider breath of your thoughts upon their visit, helping them underswhat this blog is about, which should translate to more dedicated readers.

  • A.B. Dada

    I concur. I started using paragraph headers (Header 2) in WordPress on my blog and it’s much more readable.

    Limited reader analysis shows that people who “scan” an article ahead of time actually do read it when they see the header breakdowns are here. Viewer retention went up almost 300% from random Google hits, according to analytics.

  • A.B. Dada

    No doubt.

    I don’t really have much issue getting younger gals to come out with me, but I also have a reputation as being calm and collected and a hard nut to crack — something that younger women are way more into than the average gal my age.

    As the older woman says “I don’t want to play games”, I append “anymore, because I can’t” to their oft quoted line.

  • (r)Evoluzione

    Out-standing post, Rollo.

    I’ve been slogging it out on the GMP site on this topic. Your post covers this issue comprehensively, and with intellectual vigor uncommon to most other posters on this topic at any site.

  • A.B. Dada

    AND he included a great screen cap from one of my favorite movies of all time…

    “Go… Get the butter.”

  • Rollo Tomassi

    Feel free to link it. I don’t have the amount of free time I’d need to make any impact at the GMP.

    Unplugging chumps from the Matrix is like triage, save the ones you can and read last rites to the dying.

  • itsme

    the funny thing is, many of those aging spinsters who now shriek about older men with younger women, used to date older men themselves when they were younger hotter tighter and lighter.

  • YOHAMI

    I wasnt able to bang 18 yr olds until I turned 27. “I finally got it” is what I thought.

  • (r)Evoluzione

    Done. Posted in the comments on one of those articles, will do for another as well.

    Agree with Triage analogy. Also, some of the walking-wounded patients from inside the matrix will sometimes bite the hand that attemps to free them.

  • (r)Evoluzione

    Yohami, that happened to me, too. 17-24, was mostly celibate. Dated a couple here & there that were my age, then at age 28, I dated a 19 year old. As you said, my though was “I’ve arrived.”

    The intervening years have been times of great success, relationship happiness, and massive failures–loss of confidence, etc.

    Now I work on that Mature Man piece–the money, mostly. The other pieces are well in place.

  • A.B. Dada

    The only way to make money you bitch is to make betas your bitches.

    At my peak I was billing out at a pretty 3 figures hourly.

    Then I discovered employees.

    If you have 15 people working for you at $15 an hour, and you bill them out at $75 an hour, you earn $750 an hour, gross.

  • Good Luck Chuck

    Don’t even get me started on this subject. Just celebrated my 40th birthday a few weeks ago so I am all too familiar with the pressure that aging women try to place on men to get them to commit to their washed up asses.

    That’s why I don’t even particularly care to hang around women who are 30+. They wonder why we prefer 20 something women? Well there’s part of the answer. The 20 something women KNOW that they have something valuable to offer so they have no need to shame anyone into buying their lower quality, high priced goods. It’s nice to hang out with chicks who aren’t constantly on the defensive.

    I just love the points older women try to make to try to justify their low market value. My favorite is the “what would a 40 year old man even have in common with a 22 yr old girl?” Pretty simple, lady. It is NORMAL for a man to want to show a woman the world, and for a woman to want to open herself up to the world of an experienced man. A man DOES NOT want or need a woman who pretends to like shitty art, has a high powered career, and has slutted her way around the world a few times.

    A woman does not mature like a man does. Once she fully realizes the power of her vagina (usually by the time she is in her early 20’s) she’s about as mature and rounded as she is going to be. At least in the way it matters to a man. My conversations with younger women are BETTER than they are with older women because younger chicks are usually appreciative of the experiences of an older man. The dynamic works. With an older woman it’s more like comparing notes with your old college roommate you haven’t seen in 15 years.

    It’s not going to get any better fellas. The first major wave of these women (gen x’ers) is just NOW turning 40. Expect more and more shaming as the cougars ranks continue to grow.

  • Good Luck Chuck

    I think I was about 26 when I first started getting play from 18 yr olds. It wasn’t until I was about 29 and started studying this stuff that I really hit my stride, and I experienced another boost when I was 33-34 and living like a rock star. My last notch was 17 years my junior so I guess I’m still doing something right….

  • (r)Evoluzione

    “The first major wave of these women (gen x’ers) is just NOW turning 40. Expect more and more shaming as the cougars ranks continue to grow”

    True, but there’s an even larger cohort of Millenial’s/Gen Y women, many of whom are turned off by their age cohort male’s lack of charisma and will. Thus it’s a grand time if you simply ignore the jackals, er, cougars.

  • (r)Evoluzione

    That’s my very project at the moment, AB. I’m in the process of developing this. I just wish I’d have figured out this part sooner. But I’m grateful to be where I am, in all areas of development. I look back into my early 20’s & see a chump–one with a good heart. That hasn’t changed, but the wisdom acquired in the last 15 years has been tremendous.

  • Ju

    I agree with some of your points, however, it seems to me that you generally just hate and objectify women. Which is ok too. It takes all kinds of people to make a world.
    But to overgeneralize that women over a certain age are hopelessly dull is ridiculous. I’ve known quite a few women who were over your age limit and are facinating.
    To your point about feminine culture victimizing themselves, you are doing the same exact thing. Oh we are happier, therefore we deserve younger, happier women. We are successful, we deserve to bang 19 year olds. Whatever keeps you going, that’s cool. I think anyone who is looking for a lifelong partner or just a one night stand deserves a happy, self-sufficient human being.
    Perhaps instead of generalizing all older women are unhappy harpies, you should examine your choices of a partner and stop placing blame on others.

  • A.B. Dada

    When someone diagnoses a market they’re considering entering for business, they tend to not consider the outer sides of the bell curve. If you’re making a car, you’re targeting the middle 60%, typically — you’re not looking for people with millions of dollars to spend, and you’re not going to try to sell to the bottom 20% who can only spend pennies.

    When dating, you also have to consider your target market. Women in their 30s, in the middle of the bell curve, are unhappy and overweight more than they’re skinny, funny, sexy.

    I regularly have a woman in her 30s in my overall rotation, but I meet maybe 2 out of 50 women in their 30s who are still fun, sexy, and in good shape.

    If I go to mid-20s, it goes to maybe 10 out of 50.

    If I go to lower-20s, it’s 25 out of 50.

    A wise businessman aims for the middle of the bell curve, and a wise dating man does the same.

  • (r)Evoluzione

    Ju wrote:

    “it seems to me that you generally just hate and objectify women.”

    Where’s this alleged hate and objectification of women? Point to a particular passage. Your cry of ‘hate’ is is simply a way to marginalize what Rollo is saying. There’s not a drop of hate in this post. The only place it shows up is in YOUR response.

    “you should examine your choices of a partner and stop placing blame on others.”

    What do you think he was doing throughout this entire post, if not examining choices in partners?

    The entire post is an exercise in examining social mores, choices that men make, and why.

  • tt

    @Rollo,
    You seem to have a gift for reassuring old guys with what they prefer to believe. Do you practice this in your professional life, and if so, what exactly to you say or do to reassure them in that context?

    Your reference to the happiness modeling using borrowed, self-reported, survey data was interesting. How exactly does a man’s family happiness gap over women’s at age 64 square with your message above?

  • samseau

    Ju – did you know rollo the mysogonist is a married man of 15+ years with female offspring? And he’s banged 40+ women?

    Whooooops, you’re an idiot! Know your audience before trolling next time.

  • samseau

    tt and ju –

    You guys would make a great lesbian couple.

  • Johnycomelately

    From my personal observation, families with a significant age gap between the husband and wife seem to perform way better than similarly aged families.

    Less fighting over money (usually owns own home), less tension, less need for the father to ‘get away from it’, a lot more respect from the wife, improved structure in the children’s lives (leading to improved grades and generally pleasant behaviour) and a better overall family life.

  • Kate

    It seems to me that there are mostly men here, and that you guys leaving posts are only interested in dating women who are subservient, giggle boxes rather than actual an actual partner. You seem more interested in a casual encounter than a substantive relationship.

    A.B. you have a “rotation”. You are better off in the 20’s category because ladies will probably rotate you to the trash can pretty quickly if they didn’t have a rotation of their own to entertain themselves with.

    All of this being the case, really, we are talking apples and oranges. The dried-up hags in their 30s you refer to are looking for long-term substance, while you fellas are looking for a fling.

    And if you are not, what happens to that fun, sexy 20 y.o. in 5-10 years when her odometer flips to the hag years? Do you chalk it up to more “experience” and go hunting in that “middle of the bell curve” age group again?

  • Mike C

    It seems to me that there are mostly men here, and that you guys leaving posts are only interested in dating women who are subservient, giggle boxes rather than actual an actual partner. You seem more interested in a casual encounter than a substantive relationship.

    Questions:
    How old are you?
    What is your profession?
    Are you single?
    What is your definition of “substantive” relationship?

    A.B. you have a “rotation”. You are better off in the 20′s category because ladies will probably rotate you to the trash can pretty quickly if they didn’t have a rotation of their own to entertain themselves with.

    Why the hate? Why does it piss you off so much if A.B. does have a “rotation” of younger women he dates?

    All of this being the case, really, we are talking apples and oranges. The dried-up hags in their 30s you refer to are looking for long-term substance, while you fellas are looking for a fling.

    OK, whatever. But again, why do you care? If a bunch of older guys (30-40) are avoiding the dried-up hags why do you give two shits about that?

    Clearly, the post and some of the comments pushed your buttons enough to warrant a comment so I’m curious what exactly is your problem. If you are an older woman, go find a guy who can “appreciate” the “substantive” qualities you bring to the table.

  • unbowed

    @Kate ‘It seems to me that there are mostly men here’. Yes. though it’s painfully obvious, I’ll spell out the purpose of this blog as simply as I can: Rollo is a gracious man and gifted writer. On his blog, Rollo and other men help men deal with women. The advice given has been field-tested and works (I know this from personal experience). We sometimes disagree on tactics or definitions, but the arguments are in good faith.
    Speaking for myself (and probably others): We wouldn’t trust your ‘advice'; we’re bored by your straw-man arguments; we don’t need you.

  • Patio

    I’m a professional woman in my early 40s, and I agree and sympathize with everything written here. I myself exclusively date younger men, so why wouldn’t men my age be more interested in younger women? I have my own money, so men my age have nothing to offer me that younger men don’t have – in a more youthful, energetic, more attractive form. Moreover, they’re not saddled with emotional baggage from failed relationships or ex-wives or children to pick up on the weekend.

    Of course younger women call me a cougar whatever other spiteful things they can think of, but the truth is, ladies: if you didn’t reject these same young men for their lack of experience and resources, I wouldn’t be able get them. If they had a choice, they would pick you. But you’ve deemed them unworthy and given the choice between me and nothing, they pick me. Plus I have my own resources to buy these nice boys all the toys they want.

  • Deep Dish

    “And if you are not, what happens to that fun, sexy 20 y.o. in 5-10 years when her odometer flips to the hag years?”

    Every relationship has a shelf life, a natural expiration date, and 5-10 years is plenty long enough for a good relationship. After all, people are only wired to have relationships up to four years.

    Comparative primate studies sometimes indicate that humans are designed for monogamy. Among the monogamous white-handed gibbon (Hylobates lar), the average body weight of an adult male is about 1,000 times the weight of the average male’s testes (Dixson, 1998). Among humans, the average man’s body weight is about 1,300 times the size of the average man’s testes (Schultz, 1938), a ratio similar to the white-handed gibbon. In contrast, the more short-term-orientated common chimpanzee (Pan troglodytes) possesses extremely large testes with a body-testes ratio of only 350 (Dixson & Mundy, 1994), and the polygynous gorilla (Gorilla gorilla) has small testes with a body-testes ratio of over 5,000 (Hall-Craggs, 1962). Contradictory evidence regarding mating strategies exists in comparisons of primate seminal volume, sperm structure, and sperm quality (Baker & Bellis, 1995; Dixson, 1993; Moller, 1988). Overall, Dixson (1998) concluded that human male reproductive physiology is consistent with both monogamous and polygynous mating, providing only mixed support for the view that humans are monogamous. Humans display extreme levels of altriciality compared to other primates, requiring large parental investments and possessing a relatively delayed adolescence (T.M. Mueller, 1999).

    Mate desertion is generally associated with lower infant survival in foraging cultures (Hill & Hurtado, 1996), another indication that humans are designed for monogamy. Finally, humans possess several neurophysiological systems of attachment linked with pairbonding and monogamy across species (Fisher, 1998; Hazan & Zeifman, 1999; Young, 2003). Fisher (1992) suggests that human patterns of weaning, birth spacing, divorce, and remarriage all point to a system of serial monogamy. It takes about 4 years to wean a child in hunter-gatherer cultures, and birth spacing in a foraging environment averages about 4 years (Blurton Jones 1986). Many divorces occur between the fourth and sixth year of marriage (Fisher, 1989, 1992), and men who practice serial monogamy are more reproductively successful than men who stay married to the same woman for a lifetime. Women who mate serially do not have reproductive advantage over other women (Buckle, Gallup, & Rodd, 1996). Excerpt from The Handbook Of Evolutionary Psychology (2005)(pages 259-261) edited by David Buss.

  • Deep Dish

    Women seem to generally have a blindness for the difference between quantity of attention and quality of attention.

    It’s easy to target young beta males who have difficulty in finding a highly desirable partner. These ‘boys’ with whom you shower your resources are beta males, and any alpha males would simply hump and dump you. I predict you have a distaste and disinterest for alpha males, which is predictable.

    Law 36: Disdain Things you cannot have:  Ignoring them is the best Revenge
    By acknowledging a petty problem you give it existence and credibility. The more attention you pay an enemy, the stronger you make him; and a small mistake is often made worse and more visible when you try to fix it. It is sometimes best to leave things alone. If there is something you want but cannot have, show contempt for it. The less interest you reveal, the more superior you seem.

  • Patio

    Well, why wouldn’t I ignore the “alpha” males in favour of the “beta” males, if I can’t have them? Doesn’t it make more sense to spend my time, energy and resources on something I can have?

    It certainly seems preferable to the alternative: wasting my time on men my own age, who will either be “beta” and possibly interested in me but inferior to younger men, or “alpha” and able to attract younger women and thus not interested in me. Your prediction is correct: I’ve never really cared for that kind of man. I see them all the time – if that’s the kind of man you aspire to be, more power to you. But I prefer to be the one that pursues. And why not? You have your game, I have mine ;) (And it isn’t as “easy” as you seem to think, either – it requires remaining in shape and attractive. Most women my age, I find, let themselves get far too overweight or frumpy to play a successful Mrs. Robinson.)

  • xsplat

    I’ve discovered that while it is easy to elucidate one’s preferred sexual strategy, and moderately easy to elucidate several sexual strategies, it is difficult to extremely difficult to empathize with and accept the validity of alternate sexual strategies.

    And so on forums, you get camps fiercely fighting about why their way is best, and why other people are doing it wrong.

    This is exactly what i do. I consider this part of the human sexual condition. We believe in our strategies, and our strategies are in competition with other strategies.

    For instance the alpha cad strategy of leaving cuckoo egg children for cuckolds to raise is viable. As is lifetime monogamy. Both strategists tend to revile each other as either chumps or antisocial scum.

  • xsplat

    Because what she is fighting against is the male condition, and females have subroutines built right into their brains that are designed to do just that. Females ally into a troupe that acts as a union. Or a mafia, if you will. And they rally to limit the social system, to be in their favor.

    Males do the same.

    But these brain subroutines specialized to effect social system evolved mostly when our tribes were small, and everybody knew everybody.

    The idea of anonymous people who don’t count doesn’t really exist to these subroutines.

    Everyone counts – and must be swayed by female propaganda. Or male, if you belong to that beta class of lifetime monogamy enforcers (who largely ally with the feminine imperative).

    The cad and slut strategy largely relies on anonymity. On the net, we have a brand new type of anonymity. Honest, open, factual anonymity.

    That spins the social enforcing subroutines into a tizzy.

  • Good Luck Chuck

    “It seems to me that there are mostly men here, and that you guys leaving posts are only interested in dating women who are subservient, giggle boxes rather than actual an actual partner.”

    Please forgive us.

    We would absolutely love to have a relationship with an older, well rounded woman who has spent the past ten years of her life picking up valuable life experience, but unfortunately we are intimidated by strong, independent women like you. Although we are domineering it is only to compensate for our weaknesses. Deep down we know that we can’t control a fiery, independent woman like you, so we seek out women who we can control, you know, like those giggly little subservient 19 year old asian sex slaves you can order off the internet. We always have to be in control and it is soooo much easier when we are dealing with a woman who only speaks when spoken to. Thank God for those third world countries with all of those poor, impoverished teenagers who are dying to get a green card, otherwise, where would we find women who are dumb enough to fall for our ruse?

    We are all bitter, sexist, mysoginistic losers who can’t get a date, and wouldn’t know a “good” woman if she hit us over the head with a tv dinner after a long day at work, so we are probably destined to die lonely old men. Our fragile egos prevent us from admitting that we would prefer to remain immature, video game addicted manchildren for the rest of our lives rather than manning up and doing the right thing by settling down with a woman who is age appropriate for us (now that she has found herself and is finally ready to give some lucky man the gift of her reborn chastity and undying devotion).

    So please, cut us a little slack. What could you expect from a bunch of stupid Neanderthals anyway?

  • Good Luck Chuck

    “You are better off in the 20′s category because ladies will probably rotate you to the trash can pretty quickly if they didn’t have a rotation of their own to entertain themselves with.”

    And rotate they do!

    “All of this being the case, really, we are talking apples and oranges. The dried-up hags in their 30s you refer to are looking for long-term substance, while you fellas are looking for a fling.”

    In our 20’s most of us would have loved nothing more than to have a relationship with a little “substance”, but now that the tables are turned and we can command attention from women of all ages, why would we want to commit? You squandered the power of your youth and payback is a bitch. Don’t blame us.

    “And if you are not, what happens to that fun, sexy 20 y.o. in 5-10 years when her odometer flips to the hag years? Do you chalk it up to more “experience” and go hunting in that “middle of the bell curve” age group again?”

    http://solomonreborn.wordpress.com/2011/03/25/proverb-28-women-can-age-beautifully/

    Contrary to popular belief, a woman’s youth and beauty isn’t her ONLY bargaining chip. Most men aren’t going to up and leave a woman who has proven her worth as a FEMININE partner and a mother to his children.

    Unfortunately for older women like you though, most desirable men aren’t going to be interested in these compensating factors since you had no qualms about sharing your most valuable resource, your youth and beauty, with a few dozen other men before him.

  • Danger

    “All of this being the case, really, we are talking apples and oranges. The dried-up hags in their 30s you refer to are looking for long-term substance, while you fellas are looking for a fling. ”

    Funny, those hags in their 30’s were mostly going with flings in their 20’s.

    It’s funny, yet sad, to see women rail against men when the tide turns the other direction.

    I have no sympathy for the women that chose to ride the c0ck carousel then find themselves in a panic to secure a husband once they hit their 30’s.

    It truly is one of the funniest things to me. I laugh at it everywhere, as I see it everywhere I go. Stupid, stupid girls.

  • A.B. Dada

    One gal in The Rotation is 37 and has been there for 15 years. Rotation doesn’t mean I rotate them out of my life, I just don’t think it’s wise to see any of them more than so often.

    The gals I see who are my age are rare, few and far between. Typically, the ones I meet who are 32 are disgusting — fat, depressed, and gave it away to the bouncers, bartenders and bikers during their 20s (disease magnets).

    The younger ones are, as a percentage, more fun and peppy AND like to take better care of me.

    The last gal who dumped me was because I prostrated myself as a doormat for her. Otherwise, it’s a rare situation, unless they’re actually ready to settle down and marry, and then I think they’re the ones THANKING me for giving them a glimpse of the type of man they want as their husband. Since I won’t marry, I don’t look at that as a break-up, just a change-up. I’m still friends with them, and typically their husbands.

  • xsplat

    Good for you. I dated older women as a twenty something. You are providing the world a benefit.

  • javert

    You forget to mention that young men are the biggest losers of your big age gap relationships. Essentially, what you propose is the usual CONservative ponzi scheme of screw the youth – the elderly takes all: work hard, watch submissively as grandpa takes women of your age while you must be grateful for being allowed to bust your nuts on the old hags that not even they want to touch, and eventually you will become rich and alpha in order to screw the next generation (of both sexes, literally and figuratively). Although I don’t believe in the pedophile label or whatever, the shaming of old men is aligned to the interests of the new generation of men.

  • T & A Man

    A lot of you guys here went a bit overboard, it’s understandable though. But I think it’s best to keep some decorum.

    Now Kate, please understand that the feminisation of the world for the last half century has made you unable to see beyond your own interest. It has been catered for. What you are seeing here is a straight out machivellian response to a whole class of people, i.e. Men, who are being overtly exploited to underwrite the self interest of another class.. women.

    Discovering that is never pleasant, and payback will be bad, more so considering the biological truths at play..

    However, let’s address these;

    “It seems to me that there are mostly men here, and that you guys leaving posts are only interested in dating women who are subservient, giggle boxes rather than actual an actual partner. You seem more interested in a casual encounter than a substantive relationship.”

    Men are always attracted by the allure of a fling. And those that are more attractive, that arouse men more will be the first choice. Understand that after 25 where your levels of attraction start to decline, you will no longer be the first choice. However an older man will only pursue his ‘first choice’ if he is of the belief he has a chance of succeeding. Rollo’s ‘positive masculinity’ is just tools to optimise this chance of success, much like lipstick optmises a woman’s success at looking attractive.

    However, once this bond is formed, a woman has every chance to develop a relationship. Through feminine traits such as kindness, by being nuturing and complimenting a man will make you very appealing in mating selection. However the feminisation of thw western world has discarded these as ‘inferior’ traits for a woman. This is YOUR fault for accepting this as a truism. Other cultures still have these, and quite simply, mean they are better choices.

    “All of this being the case, really, we are talking apples and oranges. The dried-up hags in their 30s you refer to are looking for long-term substance, while you fellas are looking for a fling.”

    ‘Fellas’ do look for relationships, its just that the hags are nowhere near the top of avaible choices. Younger women are better looking and more fertile for starters, two primary biological truths. We can then added relationship baggage and a whole raft of psychological issues, and hags are just such a poor, poor choice.

    “And if you are not, what happens to that fun, sexy 20 y.o. in 5-10 years when her odometer flips to the hag years? Do you chalk it up to more “experience” and go hunting in that “middle of the bell curve” age group again?”

    Not neccessarily. Relationships take investment, men know this. Now the choices made available to us means we tend to opt for the best choice available, such as younger, prettier, and an assessment of the return being worth the investment, such as perceived fidelity, spousal and parental capability, and the duration of the relationship.

    An investment of such magnitude will not always be discarded, so once formed, men are keen on maintaining a relationship. The abandonment of a rlationship, that’s a female trait, due to their overtly solipsistic nature

  • Nestorius

    Younger girls are more feminine than older ones. Very manly men prefer more feminine girls. That’s a rule. The reason is because you only become very manly after experiencing hardships in life which leads you to prefer sweetness to make up for the hardships. No man can edure hardships without any compensation for so long without going mad at the end.

  • unbowed

    You might change your mind about this in 10-15 years.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    It requires far less mental effort to simply dismiss an argument by resorting to absolutes than to really take time to digest which points are valid, which are not, and then offer a counter argument.

    People are lazy. We like to conveniently fit issues into easily understandable blacks & whites. We don’t want to make an effort to reexamine something we’ve deemed is black or white. Why step back to take the time to reform an opinion when poisoning the well is so much easier?

  • loveiseasy

    I can’t imagine why if an older gentleman can easily attain the interests of a 20 something year old woman, would choose to date women his own age. I simply can’t think of even one incentive. If a woman has made it to age 40 without having achieved a long term lasting commitment, there is always a damn good reason to stay away from her.Most likely the aging spinster suffers from quite a few noticeable major personality, emotional, and physical flaws.

    I can’t imagine why any self-respecting man would like to go through dealing with dozens of men’s emotional baggage. As Rollo essentially said, it’s just a complication of one’s life. A man who can attain a younger woman will simply be happier and more fulfilled with one in the long term and most definitely in the short term. The only threat I suspect in these relationships is the possibility of infidelity on the woman’s part due to relative lack of experience prior to the relationship and the entirely real possibility she might begin to feel that the older gentleman is not as exciting as energetic as she’d like in some years time. in fact, I am curious to know if there is increased infidelity on the woman’s part in relationships where there is a significant age gap.

    Practically speaking, I suspect the woman loses a lot more in this arrangement. A very real downside for a woman seriously involving herself with a man significantly older than her is the likelihood of being widowed relatively young. Also, the youth of a desirable 20 something year old, bright-eyed, confident, able-bodied and desirable man at the margins of his own potential’s harvest is something I find so beautiful and inspiring. For these two reasons, I would personally not date a man any more than 5-7 years my senior. 5 is ideal.

  • Appreciation «

    [...] instance in The Mature Man thread; assume for a moment that a 40 y.o. Man with the options to pursue younger women “does the [...]

  • (r)Evoluzione

    Unbowed is right.

    First, young men rarely ‘have it together’ enough to keep the hottest women in their age cohort; this ‘age shaming’ is about the only thing that holds it together.

    Secondly, these ‘old hags’ that you talk about, are often the best way for young men to get sexual experience, and everyone benefits.

    Sum it up: you’ll grow out of it. Make sure you do. It will suck if you don’t.

  • Romantico

    Awesome write up!

  • finndistan

    Why should I , a 34 year old man choose a woman my age who has had all the defining experiences with other men over a younger woman who still has (with a higher possibility) a few experiences unexperienced?

    Why should I, a 34 year old man choose a woman who has lost the youthful enthusiasm, has been there, has done that, and, has lots of baggage from years of life experience, over a younger one who will experience much of that stuff with me?

    skipping the nubile, perky, body parts, the fresh smell, the kitten eyes, the tight skin, etc,

    Why should I, a 34 year old man, if I decide I want kids, choose a woman my age to be a mother, who will (almost) never recover from multiple births after that age; or a woman with spawn already, over one that is still young, still can handle childbirth, has less risk of problems, and has been likely less exposed to various different sperms?

    Why should I, a 34 year old man be shamed for being able to do something that most men at this age dream of?

    I enjoy younger company (25, 27 is young, 22 is a lot of fun), and if that bothers the single girls my age, well, I got a can of cat kittie feed.

    Oh and also, about the topic of “I want a man to love me for who I am”, the likelyhood that a 23 year old is with me for who I am is greater than a 34 year old whose clocks are ticking and is ready to marry with the first guy that can pay for private daycare.

    Why do you date younger women?

    “They want me for who I am”.

    It does not matter if the phrase is right or wrong in the absolute sense; compared to the older gals, this phrase will be correct for the younger gals.

    Even if she likes me for my maturity, it is better than liking me because her clock is ticking…

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  • Dave

    I’m 58. So I’m at a restaurant with my kids (15 y.o. boy and 11 y.o girl). They start telling me about their mom’s cousin, 60ish dating a 20ish gf. They are shaming him, having already learned by the culture that this is “wrong”. My son’s says “The only reason she is with him is for the money.” I listen patiently and smile wryly.

    My kids know very little about my dating life post divorce. I ask them, “So do you want to know the truth about me?” I ask. “Yes!” they exclaim. “OK. I only date young pretty women. I never date women my age and never will again.” Silence. A priceless parental moment.

  • an observer

    Many men spend years experiencing first hand women’s true preferences. Unshackled female desire has unleashed rotating polyandry, and the young beta males are the first to lose out.

    Game is the only way to deal with this. Does not erase the memories of ten years of rejection, though.

    And as for being intimidated by strong, independent women? Give me a break. So you’r a ball busting career girl. What part of submitting to a husband’s leadership will a dozen years working achieve?

    More likely, a careergirl is just another insecure harridan, desperately seeking affirmation in all the wrong places. Good luck with that.

  • Lele

    Welcome aboard, Patio.

  • BDubs

    “And if you are not, what happens to that fun, sexy 20 y.o. in 5-10 years when her odometer flips to the hag years? Do you chalk it up to more “experience” and go hunting in that “middle of the bell curve” age group again?”
    On the question of the young woman reaching a certain age, did you happen to consider that the young woman in question might be able to age more gracefully without all the cynical feminist BS, the carousel riding, and “mis-treatment” by guys who just “pump-and-dump” her? Did you consider what the effect of a woman being shielded from all that would do for her in terms of growing up a little (lot) more gracefully than the women who just run around, use guys, become embittered by the consequences of their actions (something feminists don’t want to need to consider)?
    If you have a young woman dealing with a mature man, who has come into his own, then maybe, just maybe, she’ll see the true face of men and masculinity, and be able to grow while exploring the true M/F dynamic that has been lost to women who aged in less-than-ideal ways due to their choices, and be able to age without all that baggage that is a key reason that so many women (and men) look far more used up and older than they really are.
    In short; Maybe consider that these women, who can be shielded from all the baggage thrust upon women by society and feminism, won’t just grow into a state where they look like women who took on all that baggage and let it weigh them down.

  • Half Plus Seven |

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  • Feministisk female entitlement hindrar kvinnor från att vara attraktiva | Yasers hörna

    [...] I wish this didn’t sound like conceit on my part because, in all humility, I think the better part of what I find important is really pretty mundane. It’s not that I hold a low opinion of women’s capacity to be more intellectually equitable; it’s simply their own general indifference to even trying to relate to that in comparison to their own distractions. I don’t think women (and particularly 35-40 y.o. women) feel it’s incumbent upon them to HAVE to be a good mate, intellectually stimulating, or a good mother, or even a good sexual partner for a Man’s consideration. I’d attribute most of that to the female sense of entitlement / victimhood that permeates feminine popular culture, but also to men and women’s interests really being disparate. In other words, with the extraordinarily rare exception, women will NEVER put forth the same effort a man will for a woman to better identify herself with his interests for the explicit purpose of being a better mate for him. [källa] [...]

  • KC

    Of course the men here want a younger woman, they look better! The problem is that there are older women who are are naturally beautiful and keep very in shape. The ones who are really good looking look better than many younger women. Second, not every young woman will like your wrinkles and love handles. They might be impressed by your worldliness for a couple of months, but then the novelty will wear off and she will start feeling bored going out with you and your older friends. My experience is that smart young women do not want to marry and have babies with older men, it’s usually the ones who make 30k a year or who are not very confident about their looks (aka chubby). And finally guys, I have seen too many marriages where the younger woman gets tired of having a old man next to her after many years. They end up leaving the guy, especially because many of these old men start behaving very controlling. Remember, this is 2013 not the 50’s. Women have more options, and one of them is to marry a guy within their age group.
    So sorry, it is not all roses in the older men-younger women department!
    PS: my aunt is 45, very hot looking, has loads of men after her, is not bitter nor complains about anything, has her own money, likes to laugh and have fun.

  • YOHAMI

    “PS: my aunt is 45, very hot looking, has loads of men after her, is not bitter nor complains about anything, has her own money, likes to laugh and have fun.”

    You forgot to the link to the OKCupid account.

  • backbreaker

    What gets me is that the vast majority of 35 year old men, would have jumped at the opportunity to date the 35 year old women 10 years earlier, and these same women that shame men, wanted nothing to do with the man then.

    I have a very simple solution to women who complain about men dating younger women; stop rejecting men in their 20’s for not having the “TOTAL PACKAGE”, grow with your man, build a life together (novel concept) and you won’t have to worry about it.

    About a month ago I looked at a girl I dated 11 years ago’s twitter account for shits and giggles and she dumped me for a dude that was in his late 20’s (She was 18). Now at 29, she’s making tweets about why all the good men lie to her. Bitch please lol.

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  • DirkDangler

    As women age, they [cough] become protective of younger women, you know, those vulnerable [cough] children, the ones that are out partying their firm asses off, while drinking, drugging, engaging in sexual experimentation, and all of that which comes with the process of maturing. Older women believe that older guys should stick with older women. But here is the rub, when girls and boys are younger, they are both told that girls mature faster than boys. That girls are ahead of their male peers in terms of maturity. What they really mean is that girls hit puberty sooner, they take notice of their male peers before their male peers are attracted to them, and so the girls take interest in older boys. That is what is meant by the term “maturity”. So, while their peers are walking to school, if not taking a bus, their female cohorts are looking for guys who drive cars, even before their male peers have acquired a driver’s license. And these girls don’t develop a sixth sense or some sort of supernatural intuition regarding men. THEY SIMPLY GAIN EXPERIENCE OVER TIME. It may seem like a sixth sense to men, because the overwhelming majority of men lack the kind of experience with women that women have gained on men. Females are noticing, evaluating, judging and comparing males before males have taken the slightest notice or interest in them. Women are not naïve and they are not stupid. They know, when they see a cruise ship leave harbor, or a jet flying overhead, that a team of men assembled it. Can you even conceive of a team of women building a massive cruise ship? But those are the kinds of activities men engage in. And women are aware of it, painfully so. Resentfully so. And so they keep an eye on men. A woman who couldn’t drive a single rivet will imagine that she reigns over every man who built the ship if she has a single warm cabin to sleep in. Women have become that deluded. They once realized that they were guests in what was essentially a man’s world. Now they imagine that they are running the world, when they are simply being tooled by feminists who are running their mouths. Look at it this way, we have reached a day and age in which gay men imagine they can be a woman’s best friend and lesbians imagine that they can be a woman’s best lover; and both of them are acting, with the aid of feminists, towards cock blocking straight men.

  • DirkDangler

    Another thing:
    A younger woman will very likely look up to an older guy who has his shit together.
    An older woman would very likely try to tear an older guy down, regardless of the fact that he has his shit together. In fact, if she can tear him down, out of jealousy, then he becomes less attractive to other women; women who would then have a hard time recognizing the fact that he has his shit together, because he will no longer be exuding that fact if he is being subtly undermined by an experienced, worthless, conniving bitch. As a group, they will try to convince older guys that the right thing for them to do is go out with the used up worn out old hoes, like themselves. All other, better alternatives are dismissed, ridiculed or characterized as psychological pathology. Young women in their mid-twenties are now a days being characterized as “children”… In other words, mature men are to look for women who are outside of their prime years and who are more likely to be looking for a stable relationship, rather than for sexual adventure and experimentation. Let me tell you something. I went to a BMW franchise. I looked at every car on their lot, comparing the exteriors and the interiors of every vehicle they had. Afterwards, a conniving worthless son of a bitch who had just pulled up in the company’s beater car began to try to sell me on the vehicle’s value; no need to worry about the scratches, they’d come out. No need to worry about how dirty the vehicle was, they’d clean it up and detail it for me. And best of all, they all drove the vehicle. Yeah, they all beat the shit out of that vehicle because they probably resented their pay, or they had a spat with management, their girlfriend, or someone or other. The guy was trying to sell me the worst thing on their lot. And he wasn’t even a salesman. I thought he was nuts. And everyone within earshot who could see what he was doing were getting clenched jaws and felt their hands tightening to fist. Well, people who suggest to older males that they should attach themselves to beat up models with high mileage and ever escalating maintenance challenges are up to the same transparent trick. Some old hoe even had the audacity to send a younger woman over to me in order to get ahold of my phone number. Once the younger woman had my number, the old drunkard came out of the shadows and asked the attractive woman if she had gotten my number for her. WTF?! I guess she didn’t feel totally ashamed by what she had done, given the idea that I’d be feeling stiffed and let down by the sham. I guess she supposed that would put us on an equal footing. Do you see what I mean? Why would any guy in his right mind want to deal with the warped and twisted mind games that older women like to engage in if he is fortunate enough not to be married to an older woman to begin with? If a guy has avoided older women all of his life, then why on God’s green earth would he decide to become involved with them, simply because he has gotten older? It boils down to this: Older women will try to convince you that if you have an advantage, such as money, experience, whatever, and you use it to your advantage, then you are taking advantage. And that comes with moral reprobation. Now, common sense will tell you that if you have an advantage, and you do not use it to your advantage, then you are disadvantaging yourself in a highly competitive world. Older women want to manipulate you, so that you seek their approval, and you do that the instant you seek to avoid their disapproval. If you follow their lead, the pain does not end, but rather it has begun. I prefer sleek cars, slim and attractive women…

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