The Mature Man

I recently got into an interesting debate as to the reasonings why mature men tend to opt for younger women with whom to settle down with. As is to be expected from femme-screech and their mangina enablers the social shaming mechanisms abounded. Most of these are some variation of the “men’s fragile egos” canard or the “a real man would want to get with a woman his own age” trope. This quote pretty much summed up the opposing point:

Older guys want to bang college-age girls for the same reason that many older women like dating younger guys: to live in a state of suspended youth and be reminded that they “still have it”.

I half-agree. Older women definitely want to think they “still have it”, with regards to their capacity to hold the attention of younger guys they find themselves in competition with younger women for. However, older men who naturally pursue younger women come to realize that they’ve “finally got it”. Why wouldn’t a guy of 40 have a natural preference for the younger woman after reaching a level of maturity and accomplishment that allows him this? Professional women tied to the male template of life’s progression tend to think that they too should be entitled to the sexual attraction of ‘eligible’ men by virtue of their mature achievements, status, intellect and some imagined sense of knowing themselves better. They are mistaken.

The Associations of Maturity

First off,  it’s a mistake to just peg 40 y.o.s in this demographic. There are plenty of early to mid thirties guys that can and do pull girls 5 to 8 years younger than themselves regularly. Funny how there’s little shaming stigma with that age difference. It’s not a man’s physical age so much as what the age represents (or is perceived to) – maturity, accomplishment, better provisioning capacity, status, etc. Do ALL men actually realize these to their satisfaction by this time? Of course not, but it’s the perception that they SHOULD have actualized this that is the attractant in comparison to younger guys who haven’t, nor would really be expected to. Mature Men represent this perception of assumed accomplishment and security – exactly what women are looking for in a phase of life where their sexual marketability declines and their need for long term provisioning becomes more urgent..

Second, understand that the incidence of 30-40 y.o. men remaining single up to this time of life is far lower. Most guys (AFCs in particular) are already engaged by 25 y.o. and or have been serial monogamists up to this point. For all the recent hand wringing about ‘kidult’ men not manning up and marrying women, rare is the guy who remains single into his late 30s. At this point he’s either divorced once or on marriage number two. Still fewer come into the realization of their own vastly increased sexual market value assuming they’ve managed to stay in shape and accomplish things financially, emotionally and maturity-wise up to this point and THEN use this to their own advantage with younger women. An interesting aside here is that men get berated for being peter-pans in their late 20s for not living up to female entitlement, then get the same treatment for marrying younger women when they do mature into Men. This is a glaring illustration of the female imperative at work.

Now add to that a constant feminine social contrivance telling them they have “fragile egos” or shames them for dating young chippys (i.e. future trophy brides) instead of mature women (generally single mothers) with all their accompanying baggage. Unsurprisingly we see in most cultures older males striving for the attentions of the younger and more atractive females, but in western culture he becomes vilified and shamed for this – or at least that’s what western feminized women would like to be the case. The most common complaint women in their mid-thirties bemoan is that “There’s no good men” or they can’t understand why men just can’t “grow up”. Increasingly ‘career women’ desiring to finally start a family at age 35 find that men – particularly the ones that meet their provisioning criteria – in their age range (33-38) are not interested in women (to say nothing of ‘career women’) of their age. They’re interested in the 22 year olds who wouldn’t give them the time of day when they didn’t have the status (or maturity) that they’ve just discovered they now have. And of course the 35 year old career woman was one of these 22 year old girls, only 13 years prior, who was doing precisely the same thing the 22 year old girls are doing today.

Mid-Life Crisis Epiphany

These Men are not trying to relive anything; they’re newly aware of their own sexual market value – and nothing both frightens and attracts a woman so well as a Man aware of his own value. That’s the foundation of confidence. This represents a problem for women though. They want a Man with the confidence and maturity (derived from experience) to make important decisions, be an initiator, a good provider, etc., but not SO confident that he weighs his options and selects her out of his provisioning for a competing woman based on his primary requisite of sexual experience. So to counter this, the feminine creates social conventions that shame a Man for considering a woman too much younger than herself. This has the latent purpose of leveling the playing field in order for her to compete with women who are younger, hotter and more sexually available. He has to be kept ignorant of the whole process, but still ashamed enough into thinking his desire for the young and attractive mid 20s girl makes him “juvenile” or he has a “fragile ego”, or he’s “trying to recapture his youth”. The feminine reality demands he be dissuaded from pursuing his interests in favor of women’s sexual strategies, and the best way to do that is to slime his intersets as disgusting:

To most college-age girls, a guy in his 40s (even 30s) and up is usually the “creepy old man,” even if he takes good care of himself. The old guy usually ends up trying to fit into the young girl’s world instead of the other way around.

This is the Creepy Old Man tactic. I don’t necessarily disagree with this, however I think it’s contextual. I’m regularly at events (mixers, clubs, promos, vodka nights, etc.) as part of my work where I’m approached by much younger women. If the 40 y.o. guy is perceived to be attempting to “fit in” with that age’s social peers, then you’re absolutely correct. The disconnect comes from a man who’d otherwise be perceived as possessing the attributes he should have for his age trying to retrograde himself into another age’s social profile. THAT’S when he becomes the “old guy in the club”. When I’m on promos, or out socially as part of my job, I NEVER attempt to ‘backdate’ myself style-wise, linguistically, etc. If you’re attractive, the girls who want to associate with a mature Man will find you.

I work in the alcohol / spirits industry and as part of this I travel internationally about 3-4 times a year. I’m at bars, events, conventions, martini clubs and mixers fairly often. And with the exception of a few men older than myself, I’m a senior in my company and older by 5 to 10 years than most of the people I interact with. In all honesty, I find people my own age or in their mid 40s, and particularly women, insufferably boring.

Men become happier than women by mid-life and for the most part I think I can see why. Most women in their late 30s to mid 40s are, for the most part, chronic complainers. After going through the high drama phases of her 20s, into kids, marriages and divorces in her 30s, women tend to content themselves languishing in this dissatisfaction that her fantasy life isn’t panning out. Nothing measures up to the perceived ideals she thinks are her due. Most women in western culture who find themselves single at 38-42 are there after an earlier life that didn’t go as planned. They almost universally carry some kind of baggage. Can they be attractive? Uncommonly, but yes. However it’s a mistake to assume older (or at least age level peers) women to be more intellectually equitable with older men and therefore more compatible choices for LTRs / marriage. I’m sorry if this comes off as glossing myself, but honestly, I’ve encountered very few women I can relate to intellectually or that I’d consider equal in my particular interests, my life experiences, my passions, etc.

I wish this didn’t sound like conceit on my part because, in all humility, I think the better part of what I find important is really pretty mundane. It’s not that I hold a low opinion of women’s capacity to be more intellectually equitable; it’s simply their own general indifference to even trying to relate to that in comparison to their own distractions. I don’t think women (and particularly 35-40 y.o. women) feel it’s incumbent upon them to HAVE to be a good mate, intellectually stimulating, or a good mother, or even a good sexual partner for a Man’s consideration. I’d attribute most of that to the female sense of entitlement / victimhood that permeates feminine popular culture, but also to men and women’s interests really being disparate. In other words, with the extraordinarily rare exception, women will NEVER put forth the same effort a man will for a woman to better identify herself with his interests for the explicit purpose of being a better mate for him.

“Mature” Women

Obviously a more mature woman will have a greater urgency to settle into the long term provisioning security that marriage provides her, but this urgency gets confused with actual maturity. Just because a woman is more motivated to start a family and enter into a more traditionally domestic life doesn’t mean she’s an intellectual or mature equal, nor does it make her more compatible with you in this sense. It simply means she is more motivated to do so based on her conditions of diminishing sexual value.

I think on some level of consciousness, older, more mature men who’ve spent a good portion of their lives dealing with the experiences that create this baggage for older women, recognize a necessity to distance themselves from it. After making the sacrifices, and avoiding (or not) the pitfalls that he must to become the healthy, mature and accomplished man that older women complain are in such short supply, I think it’s pretty matter of fact to seek out a younger, hotter, more sexually available woman with little to no baggage. The counter to this is the feminine social contrivances of shame that I’ve already covered earlier.

Men on a basic functioning level are pragmatists, even when we do allow our emotions to get the better of us. One tenet we maintain is an understanding that women tend to operate from an emotional level, whereas men tend to operate from deductive reasoning. And while a hot piece of ass is it’s own motivation, I think on some level, after the necessary experiences, sacrifices and time it takes to get to a point of personal maturity, we see a younger woman with less baggage as a sort of double bonus. If I were to find myself single tomorrow, this would be exactly my motivation. Why would I invest my considerable capacity for financial, emotional, intellectual and security provisioning into complicating my own life with a woman fraught with the baggage of her own failings and inconsistencies of the last 10-15 years? For what I’ve become myself and what I know is valuable, why would I not look for a simplification considering what was required of me to get to that maturity? If middle age men are happier than women at this stage of life, it’s because they’ve arrived at a place where they don’t feel the need to qualify themselves to women any longer.

A rich man doesn’t need to tell you he’s rich. You can see it in his appearance, his mannerisms, his bearing. The same is true for a mature Man. In his maturity he’s comfortable in the knowledge that he doesn’t need to prove it by qualifying himself to a social contrivance that’s counter to his own self-interest and his well being.

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A.B. Dada
Guest

Good timing for this topic. 2 years ago, I met a beautiful and fun 18 year old while I was doing business in Central America. I was 35 at the time. We hooked up for that long weekend and stayed in touch off and on from then, but never really found ourselves in the same place at the same time. Of course, my guy friends high-fived me for hooking up with a gal half my age (and a beautiful and very feminine one at that), but MOST of my female friends were aghast — only the younger ones (early 20s)… Read more »

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

Apologies for the “wall of text” but I was on a roll this morning.

samseau
Guest
samseau

Latin-american chicks, columbians in particular, love older men.

In America I suspect a large percentage of younger women prefer older men, but, due to the sheer volume of shrieking aging spinsters, these girls keep their preferences hidden.

H.L. Mencken, for example, married an 18 yr old at 38.

Look up “the marriage zone” by solomon II for more on this.

samseau
Guest
samseau

Actually, Rollo, your writing organization has improved considerably since starting this blog. The sub-headers and shorter paragraphs hook readers effortlessly. The next step is to improve the layout of the blog itself. I think this blog would benefit from the kind of layout zerohedge uses, given the volume of your posts, with a short intro paragraph heading each post and requiring the reader to click on “read more” to see the entire article. The pic can remain as-is. This way, new readers will be able to see a wider breath of your thoughts upon their visit, helping them underswhat this… Read more »

A.B. Dada
Guest

I concur. I started using paragraph headers (Header 2) in WordPress on my blog and it’s much more readable.

Limited reader analysis shows that people who “scan” an article ahead of time actually do read it when they see the header breakdowns are here. Viewer retention went up almost 300% from random Google hits, according to analytics.

A.B. Dada
Guest

No doubt.

I don’t really have much issue getting younger gals to come out with me, but I also have a reputation as being calm and collected and a hard nut to crack — something that younger women are way more into than the average gal my age.

As the older woman says “I don’t want to play games”, I append “anymore, because I can’t” to their oft quoted line.

(r)Evoluzione
Guest
(r)Evoluzione

Out-standing post, Rollo.

I’ve been slogging it out on the GMP site on this topic. Your post covers this issue comprehensively, and with intellectual vigor uncommon to most other posters on this topic at any site.

A.B. Dada
Guest

AND he included a great screen cap from one of my favorite movies of all time…

“Go… Get the butter.”

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

Feel free to link it. I don’t have the amount of free time I’d need to make any impact at the GMP.

Unplugging chumps from the Matrix is like triage, save the ones you can and read last rites to the dying.

itsme
Guest
itsme

the funny thing is, many of those aging spinsters who now shriek about older men with younger women, used to date older men themselves when they were younger hotter tighter and lighter.

YOHAMI
Guest

I wasnt able to bang 18 yr olds until I turned 27. “I finally got it” is what I thought.

(r)Evoluzione
Guest
(r)Evoluzione

Done. Posted in the comments on one of those articles, will do for another as well.

Agree with Triage analogy. Also, some of the walking-wounded patients from inside the matrix will sometimes bite the hand that attemps to free them.

(r)Evoluzione
Guest
(r)Evoluzione

Yohami, that happened to me, too. 17-24, was mostly celibate. Dated a couple here & there that were my age, then at age 28, I dated a 19 year old. As you said, my though was “I’ve arrived.”

The intervening years have been times of great success, relationship happiness, and massive failures–loss of confidence, etc.

Now I work on that Mature Man piece–the money, mostly. The other pieces are well in place.

YOHAMI
Guest

make money your bitch

A.B. Dada
Guest

The only way to make money you bitch is to make betas your bitches.

At my peak I was billing out at a pretty 3 figures hourly.

Then I discovered employees.

If you have 15 people working for you at $15 an hour, and you bill them out at $75 an hour, you earn $750 an hour, gross.

Good Luck Chuck
Guest
Good Luck Chuck

Don’t even get me started on this subject. Just celebrated my 40th birthday a few weeks ago so I am all too familiar with the pressure that aging women try to place on men to get them to commit to their washed up asses. That’s why I don’t even particularly care to hang around women who are 30+. They wonder why we prefer 20 something women? Well there’s part of the answer. The 20 something women KNOW that they have something valuable to offer so they have no need to shame anyone into buying their lower quality, high priced goods.… Read more »

Good Luck Chuck
Guest
Good Luck Chuck

I think I was about 26 when I first started getting play from 18 yr olds. It wasn’t until I was about 29 and started studying this stuff that I really hit my stride, and I experienced another boost when I was 33-34 and living like a rock star. My last notch was 17 years my junior so I guess I’m still doing something right….

(r)Evoluzione
Guest
(r)Evoluzione

“The first major wave of these women (gen x’ers) is just NOW turning 40. Expect more and more shaming as the cougars ranks continue to grow”

True, but there’s an even larger cohort of Millenial’s/Gen Y women, many of whom are turned off by their age cohort male’s lack of charisma and will. Thus it’s a grand time if you simply ignore the jackals, er, cougars.

(r)Evoluzione
Guest
(r)Evoluzione

That’s my very project at the moment, AB. I’m in the process of developing this. I just wish I’d have figured out this part sooner. But I’m grateful to be where I am, in all areas of development. I look back into my early 20’s & see a chump–one with a good heart. That hasn’t changed, but the wisdom acquired in the last 15 years has been tremendous.

Ju
Guest
Ju

I agree with some of your points, however, it seems to me that you generally just hate and objectify women. Which is ok too. It takes all kinds of people to make a world. But to overgeneralize that women over a certain age are hopelessly dull is ridiculous. I’ve known quite a few women who were over your age limit and are facinating. To your point about feminine culture victimizing themselves, you are doing the same exact thing. Oh we are happier, therefore we deserve younger, happier women. We are successful, we deserve to bang 19 year olds. Whatever keeps… Read more »

A.B. Dada
Guest

When someone diagnoses a market they’re considering entering for business, they tend to not consider the outer sides of the bell curve. If you’re making a car, you’re targeting the middle 60%, typically — you’re not looking for people with millions of dollars to spend, and you’re not going to try to sell to the bottom 20% who can only spend pennies. When dating, you also have to consider your target market. Women in their 30s, in the middle of the bell curve, are unhappy and overweight more than they’re skinny, funny, sexy. I regularly have a woman in her… Read more »

(r)Evoluzione
Guest
(r)Evoluzione

Ju wrote: “it seems to me that you generally just hate and objectify women.” Where’s this alleged hate and objectification of women? Point to a particular passage. Your cry of ‘hate’ is is simply a way to marginalize what Rollo is saying. There’s not a drop of hate in this post. The only place it shows up is in YOUR response. “you should examine your choices of a partner and stop placing blame on others.” What do you think he was doing throughout this entire post, if not examining choices in partners? The entire post is an exercise in examining… Read more »

tt
Guest
tt

@Rollo,
You seem to have a gift for reassuring old guys with what they prefer to believe. Do you practice this in your professional life, and if so, what exactly to you say or do to reassure them in that context?

Your reference to the happiness modeling using borrowed, self-reported, survey data was interesting. How exactly does a man’s family happiness gap over women’s at age 64 square with your message above?

samseau
Guest
samseau

Ju – did you know rollo the mysogonist is a married man of 15+ years with female offspring? And he’s banged 40+ women?

Whooooops, you’re an idiot! Know your audience before trolling next time.

samseau
Guest
samseau

tt and ju –

You guys would make a great lesbian couple.

Deep Dish
Guest
Deep Dish

Hey I heard Sinead O’Connor is still single:

http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2011/08/31/nothing-compares-2-the-wall/

Johnycomelately
Guest
Johnycomelately

From my personal observation, families with a significant age gap between the husband and wife seem to perform way better than similarly aged families.

Less fighting over money (usually owns own home), less tension, less need for the father to ‘get away from it’, a lot more respect from the wife, improved structure in the children’s lives (leading to improved grades and generally pleasant behaviour) and a better overall family life.

Kate
Guest
Kate

It seems to me that there are mostly men here, and that you guys leaving posts are only interested in dating women who are subservient, giggle boxes rather than actual an actual partner. You seem more interested in a casual encounter than a substantive relationship. A.B. you have a “rotation”. You are better off in the 20’s category because ladies will probably rotate you to the trash can pretty quickly if they didn’t have a rotation of their own to entertain themselves with. All of this being the case, really, we are talking apples and oranges. The dried-up hags in… Read more »

Mike C
Guest
Mike C

It seems to me that there are mostly men here, and that you guys leaving posts are only interested in dating women who are subservient, giggle boxes rather than actual an actual partner. You seem more interested in a casual encounter than a substantive relationship. Questions: How old are you? What is your profession? Are you single? What is your definition of “substantive” relationship? A.B. you have a “rotation”. You are better off in the 20′s category because ladies will probably rotate you to the trash can pretty quickly if they didn’t have a rotation of their own to entertain… Read more »

unbowed
Guest
unbowed

@Kate ‘It seems to me that there are mostly men here’. Yes. though it’s painfully obvious, I’ll spell out the purpose of this blog as simply as I can: Rollo is a gracious man and gifted writer. On his blog, Rollo and other men help men deal with women. The advice given has been field-tested and works (I know this from personal experience). We sometimes disagree on tactics or definitions, but the arguments are in good faith. Speaking for myself (and probably others): We wouldn’t trust your ‘advice’; we’re bored by your straw-man arguments; we don’t need you. Loading...

Patio
Guest
Patio

I’m a professional woman in my early 40s, and I agree and sympathize with everything written here. I myself exclusively date younger men, so why wouldn’t men my age be more interested in younger women? I have my own money, so men my age have nothing to offer me that younger men don’t have – in a more youthful, energetic, more attractive form. Moreover, they’re not saddled with emotional baggage from failed relationships or ex-wives or children to pick up on the weekend. Of course younger women call me a cougar whatever other spiteful things they can think of, but… Read more »

Deep Dish
Guest
Deep Dish

“And if you are not, what happens to that fun, sexy 20 y.o. in 5-10 years when her odometer flips to the hag years?” Every relationship has a shelf life, a natural expiration date, and 5-10 years is plenty long enough for a good relationship. After all, people are only wired to have relationships up to four years. Comparative primate studies sometimes indicate that humans are designed for monogamy. Among the monogamous white-handed gibbon (Hylobates lar), the average body weight of an adult male is about 1,000 times the weight of the average male’s testes (Dixson, 1998). Among humans, the… Read more »

Deep Dish
Guest
Deep Dish

Women seem to generally have a blindness for the difference between quantity of attention and quality of attention. It’s easy to target young beta males who have difficulty in finding a highly desirable partner. These ‘boys’ with whom you shower your resources are beta males, and any alpha males would simply hump and dump you. I predict you have a distaste and disinterest for alpha males, which is predictable. Law 36: Disdain Things you cannot have:  Ignoring them is the best Revenge By acknowledging a petty problem you give it existence and credibility. The more attention you pay an enemy, the… Read more »

Patio
Guest
Patio

Well, why wouldn’t I ignore the “alpha” males in favour of the “beta” males, if I can’t have them? Doesn’t it make more sense to spend my time, energy and resources on something I can have? It certainly seems preferable to the alternative: wasting my time on men my own age, who will either be “beta” and possibly interested in me but inferior to younger men, or “alpha” and able to attract younger women and thus not interested in me. Your prediction is correct: I’ve never really cared for that kind of man. I see them all the time –… Read more »

xsplat
Guest

I’ve discovered that while it is easy to elucidate one’s preferred sexual strategy, and moderately easy to elucidate several sexual strategies, it is difficult to extremely difficult to empathize with and accept the validity of alternate sexual strategies. And so on forums, you get camps fiercely fighting about why their way is best, and why other people are doing it wrong. This is exactly what i do. I consider this part of the human sexual condition. We believe in our strategies, and our strategies are in competition with other strategies. For instance the alpha cad strategy of leaving cuckoo egg… Read more »

xsplat
Guest

Because what she is fighting against is the male condition, and females have subroutines built right into their brains that are designed to do just that. Females ally into a troupe that acts as a union. Or a mafia, if you will. And they rally to limit the social system, to be in their favor. Males do the same. But these brain subroutines specialized to effect social system evolved mostly when our tribes were small, and everybody knew everybody. The idea of anonymous people who don’t count doesn’t really exist to these subroutines. Everyone counts – and must be swayed… Read more »

xsplat
Guest

GMP?

Good Luck Chuck
Guest
Good Luck Chuck

“It seems to me that there are mostly men here, and that you guys leaving posts are only interested in dating women who are subservient, giggle boxes rather than actual an actual partner.” Please forgive us. We would absolutely love to have a relationship with an older, well rounded woman who has spent the past ten years of her life picking up valuable life experience, but unfortunately we are intimidated by strong, independent women like you. Although we are domineering it is only to compensate for our weaknesses. Deep down we know that we can’t control a fiery, independent woman… Read more »

Good Luck Chuck
Guest
Good Luck Chuck

“You are better off in the 20′s category because ladies will probably rotate you to the trash can pretty quickly if they didn’t have a rotation of their own to entertain themselves with.” And rotate they do! “All of this being the case, really, we are talking apples and oranges. The dried-up hags in their 30s you refer to are looking for long-term substance, while you fellas are looking for a fling.” In our 20’s most of us would have loved nothing more than to have a relationship with a little “substance”, but now that the tables are turned and… Read more »

Danger
Guest
Danger

“All of this being the case, really, we are talking apples and oranges. The dried-up hags in their 30s you refer to are looking for long-term substance, while you fellas are looking for a fling. ” Funny, those hags in their 30’s were mostly going with flings in their 20’s. It’s funny, yet sad, to see women rail against men when the tide turns the other direction. I have no sympathy for the women that chose to ride the c0ck carousel then find themselves in a panic to secure a husband once they hit their 30’s. It truly is one… Read more »

A.B. Dada
Guest

One gal in The Rotation is 37 and has been there for 15 years. Rotation doesn’t mean I rotate them out of my life, I just don’t think it’s wise to see any of them more than so often. The gals I see who are my age are rare, few and far between. Typically, the ones I meet who are 32 are disgusting — fat, depressed, and gave it away to the bouncers, bartenders and bikers during their 20s (disease magnets). The younger ones are, as a percentage, more fun and peppy AND like to take better care of me.… Read more »

xsplat
Guest

Good for you. I dated older women as a twenty something. You are providing the world a benefit.

javert
Guest
javert

You forget to mention that young men are the biggest losers of your big age gap relationships. Essentially, what you propose is the usual CONservative ponzi scheme of screw the youth – the elderly takes all: work hard, watch submissively as grandpa takes women of your age while you must be grateful for being allowed to bust your nuts on the old hags that not even they want to touch, and eventually you will become rich and alpha in order to screw the next generation (of both sexes, literally and figuratively). Although I don’t believe in the pedophile label or… Read more »

T & A Man
Guest
T & A Man

A lot of you guys here went a bit overboard, it’s understandable though. But I think it’s best to keep some decorum. Now Kate, please understand that the feminisation of the world for the last half century has made you unable to see beyond your own interest. It has been catered for. What you are seeing here is a straight out machivellian response to a whole class of people, i.e. Men, who are being overtly exploited to underwrite the self interest of another class.. women. Discovering that is never pleasant, and payback will be bad, more so considering the biological… Read more »

Nestorius
Guest

Younger girls are more feminine than older ones. Very manly men prefer more feminine girls. That’s a rule. The reason is because you only become very manly after experiencing hardships in life which leads you to prefer sweetness to make up for the hardships. No man can edure hardships without any compensation for so long without going mad at the end.

unbowed
Guest
unbowed

You might change your mind about this in 10-15 years.

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

It requires far less mental effort to simply dismiss an argument by resorting to absolutes than to really take time to digest which points are valid, which are not, and then offer a counter argument.

People are lazy. We like to conveniently fit issues into easily understandable blacks & whites. We don’t want to make an effort to reexamine something we’ve deemed is black or white. Why step back to take the time to reform an opinion when poisoning the well is so much easier?

loveiseasy
Guest
loveiseasy

I can’t imagine why if an older gentleman can easily attain the interests of a 20 something year old woman, would choose to date women his own age. I simply can’t think of even one incentive. If a woman has made it to age 40 without having achieved a long term lasting commitment, there is always a damn good reason to stay away from her.Most likely the aging spinster suffers from quite a few noticeable major personality, emotional, and physical flaws. I can’t imagine why any self-respecting man would like to go through dealing with dozens of men’s emotional baggage.… Read more »

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(r)Evoluzione
Guest
(r)Evoluzione

Unbowed is right.

First, young men rarely ‘have it together’ enough to keep the hottest women in their age cohort; this ‘age shaming’ is about the only thing that holds it together.

Secondly, these ‘old hags’ that you talk about, are often the best way for young men to get sexual experience, and everyone benefits.

Sum it up: you’ll grow out of it. Make sure you do. It will suck if you don’t.

Romantico
Guest
Romantico

Awesome write up!

finndistan
Guest

Why should I , a 34 year old man choose a woman my age who has had all the defining experiences with other men over a younger woman who still has (with a higher possibility) a few experiences unexperienced? Why should I, a 34 year old man choose a woman who has lost the youthful enthusiasm, has been there, has done that, and, has lots of baggage from years of life experience, over a younger one who will experience much of that stuff with me? skipping the nubile, perky, body parts, the fresh smell, the kitten eyes, the tight skin,… Read more »

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Dave
Guest
Dave

I’m 58. So I’m at a restaurant with my kids (15 y.o. boy and 11 y.o girl). They start telling me about their mom’s cousin, 60ish dating a 20ish gf. They are shaming him, having already learned by the culture that this is “wrong”. My son’s says “The only reason she is with him is for the money.” I listen patiently and smile wryly. My kids know very little about my dating life post divorce. I ask them, “So do you want to know the truth about me?” I ask. “Yes!” they exclaim. “OK. I only date young pretty women.… Read more »

an observer
Guest
an observer

Many men spend years experiencing first hand women’s true preferences. Unshackled female desire has unleashed rotating polyandry, and the young beta males are the first to lose out.

Game is the only way to deal with this. Does not erase the memories of ten years of rejection, though.

And as for being intimidated by strong, independent women? Give me a break. So you’r a ball busting career girl. What part of submitting to a husband’s leadership will a dozen years working achieve?

More likely, a careergirl is just another insecure harridan, desperately seeking affirmation in all the wrong places. Good luck with that.

Lele
Guest
Lele

Welcome aboard, Patio.

BDubs
Guest
BDubs

“And if you are not, what happens to that fun, sexy 20 y.o. in 5-10 years when her odometer flips to the hag years? Do you chalk it up to more “experience” and go hunting in that “middle of the bell curve” age group again?” On the question of the young woman reaching a certain age, did you happen to consider that the young woman in question might be able to age more gracefully without all the cynical feminist BS, the carousel riding, and “mis-treatment” by guys who just “pump-and-dump” her? Did you consider what the effect of a woman… Read more »

Kate
Guest

Nice bump!

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[…] I addressed in The Mature Man, look at this from the half +7 rule, the older a man the greater the impression that he should have […]

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[…] I wish this didn’t sound like conceit on my part because, in all humility, I think the better part of what I find important is really pretty mundane. It’s not that I hold a low opinion of women’s capacity to be more intellectually equitable; it’s simply their own general indifference to even trying to relate to that in comparison to their own distractions. I don’t think women (and particularly 35-40 y.o. women) feel it’s incumbent upon them to HAVE to be a good mate, intellectually stimulating, or a good mother, or even a good sexual partner for a Man’s… Read more »

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[…] [The Mature Man] […]

KC
Guest
KC

Of course the men here want a younger woman, they look better! The problem is that there are older women who are are naturally beautiful and keep very in shape. The ones who are really good looking look better than many younger women. Second, not every young woman will like your wrinkles and love handles. They might be impressed by your worldliness for a couple of months, but then the novelty will wear off and she will start feeling bored going out with you and your older friends. My experience is that smart young women do not want to marry… Read more »

YOHAMI
Guest

“PS: my aunt is 45, very hot looking, has loads of men after her, is not bitter nor complains about anything, has her own money, likes to laugh and have fun.”

You forgot to the link to the OKCupid account.

backbreaker
Guest
backbreaker

What gets me is that the vast majority of 35 year old men, would have jumped at the opportunity to date the 35 year old women 10 years earlier, and these same women that shame men, wanted nothing to do with the man then. I have a very simple solution to women who complain about men dating younger women; stop rejecting men in their 20’s for not having the “TOTAL PACKAGE”, grow with your man, build a life together (novel concept) and you won’t have to worry about it. About a month ago I looked at a girl I dated… Read more »

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[…] Generally this is between a 5-7 year difference, however Roissy postulated that even more mature men still have potential depending upon their own […]

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[…] Game. Amused Mastery, Command Presence and a few other principles became much easier to employ as a mature man, but also a new grasp of how women’s lives have a more or less predictable pattern to […]

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[…] When you get older, style is much different than when you’re younger. What you wear at 22 is not what you wear at 42; there’s ways for men to capitalize on a maturity in style that women expect from men with the refinement that comes from maturity. […]

DirkDangler
Guest
DirkDangler

As women age, they [cough] become protective of younger women, you know, those vulnerable [cough] children, the ones that are out partying their firm asses off, while drinking, drugging, engaging in sexual experimentation, and all of that which comes with the process of maturing. Older women believe that older guys should stick with older women. But here is the rub, when girls and boys are younger, they are both told that girls mature faster than boys. That girls are ahead of their male peers in terms of maturity. What they really mean is that girls hit puberty sooner, they take… Read more »

DirkDangler
Guest
DirkDangler

Another thing: A younger woman will very likely look up to an older guy who has his shit together. An older woman would very likely try to tear an older guy down, regardless of the fact that he has his shit together. In fact, if she can tear him down, out of jealousy, then he becomes less attractive to other women; women who would then have a hard time recognizing the fact that he has his shit together, because he will no longer be exuding that fact if he is being subtly undermined by an experienced, worthless, conniving bitch. As… Read more »

The Red Baron
Guest
The Red Baron

I know my post will be misunderstood but i will try anyway given english is not my first language and people who disagree here are hamstered away by older (in some cases former) sexually frustrated/burnt men who use the manosphere as an alibi to satisfy their own male sexual imperative: I am a huge fan of rollo especially for his morally neutral analysis -but I disagree with other commenters and only partially agree with rollo’s post. (Basically 100% agree on the part about hypocritical cougars who chased older men in their own young prime unsuccessfully and are now bitching about… Read more »

Kristen
Guest
Kristen

God love you guys. I would like to apologize on behalf of all women who treated you so poorly that you felt your best option was rational male. I promise we are not all that bad. And for the most part women love and appreciate men.

.

FA.

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[…] The Associations of Maturity […]

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[…] difference) is because of the psychological impression that men older than a woman’s age should be more established in his understanding of the world, his career, his direction in life and his […]

Andy
Guest
Andy

“Mid-Life Crisis Epiphany”

lol. That’s me.

A rich man doesn’t need to tell you he’s rich. You can see it in his appearance, his mannerisms, his bearing. The same is true for a mature Man. In his maturity he’s comfortable in the knowledge that he doesn’t need to prove it by qualifying himself to a social contrivance that’s counter to his own self-interest and his well being.

Also, me.

rugby11
Guest
rugby11

This helped me a lot this morning “Men become happier than women by mid-life and for the most part I think I can see why. Most women in their late 30s to mid 40s are, for the most part, chronic complainers. After going through the high drama phases of her 20s, into kids, marriages and divorces in her 30s, women tend to content themselves languishing in this dissatisfaction that her fantasy life isn’t panning out. Nothing measures up to the perceived ideals she thinks are her due. Most women in western culture who find themselves single at 38-42 are there… Read more »

Palmasailor
Guest
Palmasailor

@rugby11

As a 49 year old man that is dating (spinning plates) every word of this is correct.

They are miserable, have a shit job, and have realised the reality of it is they will be working until they retire like men do.

There really are an awful lot of 40+ year old fat fishes looking for a bicycle

Newt
Guest
Newt

As someone in her early/mid 20’s (I’m 24 this year), I actually found myself agreeing with this post. I’m not sure if this is in part because I like significantly older guys much more than guys in my age group (my preference seems to go towards guys in their 30’s, sometimes late 20’s).