Quality Women

quality_women

Reader Coy expressed a need for illumination on the myth of the Quality woman:

Rollo,
I would really appreciate your thoughts on “the quality woman”. You have touched on the phenomena in many of your previous posts but i really feel my self subconsciously slipping into that binary circle jerk of madonna/whore . A dedicated post would be nice.

I briefly touched on this in AFC Social Conventions:

The Myth of the “Quality” Woman

It seems like all I read about on SoSuave these days is a never ending quest for a “Quality Woman.” There’s threads asking for clear definitions of what constitutes a “Quality” woman and others that conveniently set women up into 2 camps – Quality women and Hors, as if there were no middle ground. How easy it becomes to qualify a woman based on her indiscrretions (as heinous as they’re perceived to be) for either of these catagories. This is binary thinking at its best – on or off, black or white, Quality woman or Hor.

I think the term ‘Quality’ woman is a misnomer. Guys tend to apply this term at their leisure not so much to define what they’d like in a woman (which is actually an idealization), but rather to exclude women with whom they’d really had no chance with in the first place as an ego-preservation method, or mistakenly applied too much effort and too much focus to only to be rebuffed. This isn’t to say that there aren’t women who will behvae maliciously or indiscriminately, nor am I implying that they ought to be excused out of hand for such. What I am saying is that it’s very AFC to hold women up to preconceived idealizations and conveniently discount them as being less than “Quality” when you’re unable to predict, much less control their behaviors.

The dangers inherent in this convention is that the AFC (or the DJ subscribing to the convention) then limits himself to only what he perceives as a Quality woman, based on a sour-grapes conditioning. Ergo, they’ll end up with a “Quality” woman by default because she’s the only candidate who would accept him for her intimacy. It becomes a self-fulfiling prophecy by process of elmination. Taken to its logical conclusion, they shoot the arrow, paint the target around it and call it a bullseye, and after which they’ll feel good for having held to a (misguided) conviction.

So why is this a social convention then? Because it is socially unassailable. Since this convention is rooted to a binary premise, no one would likely challenge it. It would be foolish for me to say “Yes Mr. DJ I think you ought to avoid what you think of as Quality women.” Not only this, but we all get a certain satisfaction from the affirmation that comes from other men confirming our own assessment of what catagory a woman should fit into. Thus it becomes socially reinforced.

Be careful of making a Quality woman your substitute for a ONEitis idealization.

Back when he had a terrestrial radio show Tom Leykis did a topic about this: He had everyday women call in and tell their stories of how they used to be sexually (i.e. slutty) and how they are now. He came up with this after driving past a grade school on his way to the studio and seeing all of the women there waiting for their kids to come out and wondered about what their lives used to be like in their childless 20s. This was a wildly popular topic and the confessions just poured in like all of these women had been waiting for years to come clean anonymously about the sexual past that their husbands would never dream they were capable of. Each of these women sounded proud of themselves, almost nostalgic, as if they were some kind of past accomplishments.

This is why I laugh at the concept of the Quality woman. Don’t misinterpret that as a “women = shit” binary opinion. I mean it in the sense that most guy’s concept of a quality woman is an unrealistic idealization. There’s not a guy in the world who committed to monogamy with a woman who didn’t think she was ‘quality’ when he was with her. Even if she was a clinical neurotic before he hooked up with her, she’s still got “other redeeming qualities” that make her worth the effort. It’s only afterwards when the world he built up around her idealization comes crashing down in flames that she “really wasn’t a Quality Woman.”

Force Fit

The Quality Woman is defined by how well she fits a man’s conditioned ideal. Good Luck Chuck lamented in last week’s Hyenas that after a certain age all women are Alpha Widows, or, progressively lose the idealization of embodying the Quality Woman. While I understand the frustration, there’s an eerily similar tone that men use when they bemoan the lack of Quality Women in the world that echoes women’s when they ask “what happened to all the real men?” The only difference being that in girl-world a woman is entitled to a real man irrespective of her own quality, while a man is less of a Man for his complaints of her lacking those qualities.

I don’t envy the situation monogamy minded men in this era find themselves in. As we become a more and more connected society the indiscretions of a woman’s past will become increasingly more difficult to hide, much less temper. Whereas before, unless a woman had worked in porn, documenting her sexual and/or intimate past may have been an effort best reserved for private investigators. Now it’s as easy as reading her social media footprint archived for all to read.

This is tough on a guy sold on idealistic notions that his virgin bride is awaiting him somewhere in the world. That may be a bit binary for all but the most white knight of guys, but by order of degree, and with a measured prudence, I think it’s important for men to disabuse themselves of finding the virgin slut, who’ll only be his virgin slut.

And while I would never advocate a guy to hurry up and marry those sluts, the problem with this idealization is that men want to force fit the woman who most closely resembles his Quality Woman into that fantasy role. It becomes a psychological feedback loop – connect with a “Quality Woman”, discover her flaws, personal conditions and the decisions she made that resulted in them, then (after attempts at rationalizing them himself) disqualify her from the Quality Woman designation. The cycle comes full circle when her disqualification as a Quality Woman sets the environment for finding his next ‘jewel in the rough’.

The bad news and the good news of this is that, as connectivity and communication among men increases, so too do they realize that the Quality Woman is an impossibility even for the most gracious of women. Thanks to the rise of the manosphere we have a global consortium of men exchanging their individual experiences with women to compare and contrast with their own. The good part is it’s easy to generate a list of red flags to watch out for or read about the consequences men have suffered as a result of their blue pill existences. The bad part is that with that greater understanding comes the realization that even the best of women are still subject to hypergamy, the feminine imperative and the fem-centric environment they find themselves in.

A little bit of knowledge is sometimes dangerous – after a lot of this realization and the discernement that comes from it men are likely to have a very long list of prerequisites and red flags develop. I’m not saying men should surrender to the inevitability of marrying some raging former slut, but I am saying that an important part of unplugging oneself from the Matrix is letting go of the idealization of the Quality Woman. There are a lot of caring and nurturing former sluts, and there are pristine and chaste women only lacking the proper motivation to move them in a direction no one would ever expect of them.

 

148 comments

  1. After returning from living in Poland for 6 months I’ve been dating some American women. I don’t think I’ll ever marry an American woman due to the terrible divorce laws, even if she is great, precisely because she’ll still be subject to hypergamy, the feminine imperative, fem-centric environment, etc. The fact is that the notion of a virgin bride/”quality girl” (or one thats only been with 1-2 men) waiting for me somewhere in the world, isn’t so far-fetched. Many of these women exist, but they’re mostly outside of the U.S./West and if you find one, don’t bring her back to this environment and expect her to magically resist the pressures. If I get married it’ll be back in my ancestral homeland and that’s where I’ll raise my family. It’s a trade off, but I’m willing to make it.

  2. yep, no such thing as a “quality girl”, just a girl.

    Side note: girls are frankly dumb and LOVE it when you tell them so in a frank but non accusing way and like to hear it. They always agree. To forgive their emotional fragility and feral outbursts of “fuck me and make me feel better” and then provide a strong bulwark to their lying-assed feelings.

    Boom.

  3. “there’s an eerily similar tone that men use when they bemoan the lack of Quality Women in the world that echoes women’s when they ask ‘what happened to all the real men?’ ”

    Weird – I just said something like this on a Sosuave thread.

    I agree with you, and I always say there is no “quality,” but there are qualities. A woman hopefully will have several qualities that you find attractive. Only you know for certain what you’re happy with and what you’re unhappy with.

  4. Best blog in the manosphere by a mile. Never-ending quality articles. Keep it up Rollo, you’re really helping a lot of guys.

  5. In other words, red pill men are hypergamous too albeit in a different way. But then, hypergamy is more about pereption than reality, and more relevant to the future than the past, isn’t it? It follows that one can learn to love the woman one has, which takes us back to what we always were except this time armed with the internalised knowledge and awareness of the inherent sinfulness of women. Classic blue pill.

    So what next? How does a man discipline himself to love the fallen woman in his arms? What character does he need to cultivate in himself to rise above his revulsion and the potential for the deadly game of Marriage 2.0?

    The manosphere hasn’t matured sufficiently to offer any clear guidance on this yet. Hopefully someone other than the GiMP or those Man-Up-And-Marry-That-Slut buffoons from the pulpit will have a crack at it.

  6. @Jacob

    My gut says that just knowing the true nature of women is enough. Once you see the emotional matrix surrounding gurgling biology (no I idea who said that but its a cool quote) that is the SMP, you are top 3-5% of all men navigating it. The ability to “hard next and snap up another hottie 10-20 years younger than you is the ultimate in power.

    In other words, knowing how to ride a bike is a forever skill regardless of the bike you are riding and when.

    Checkmate fe-males, IMHO.

  7. “Even if she was a clinical neurotic before he hooked up with her, she’s still got “other redeeming qualities” that make her worth the effort.”

    LMAO that’s too true

  8. Yeah, it’s going to continue to be rough in the short term for monogamy-minded men. I suspect, though, that we’re nearing the backswing of the pendulum. The debt-financed welfare state does not look to be long for this world, as various countries’ banks require ever-more-heroic interventions to stay afloat.

    It’s important to remember the socioeconomic context of women’s hypergamy: financial support from the state minimizes the SMV granted by a beta-provider strategy, and consequently also the pool of men attractive to the average woman.

    Of course, hypergamy won’t care in the future, just as it won’t care now. But men who keep their heads down, hustle like they mean it, and accumulate a decent array of social skills and other assets will be okay. They’ll do even better if they can avoid a crippling fixation on an idealized woman that doesn’t exist outside their own headspace.

    I’d say Millennial men should relearn the various manly skills that the Boomers neglected, because those skills are both attractive to women and a good basis for a more satisfying life. Get all your ducks in a row, sleep with whatever attractive women cross your path, and don’t get married unless you’re sure that she’ll bear you healthy, smart, strong children.

  9. I’m new to this, so I’ve been scratching my head wondering where the hell are these guys finding good-looking women with only one or two men in their past.

    I mean, I get the appeal of settling down with a woman who only had a couple of guys in her past because I was just about to do that. Turns out that because she never rode the carousel, she felt she had missed out and cheated on me (thankfully before the wedding!).

    Now I’m starting to question the wisdom of targeting less experienced women. A lot of them are so fucking naive that they literally believe that the cad at the bar will to whisk them to a lifetime of perma-thrills and validation rather than use ’em, abuse ’em and lose ’em.

  10. “Each of these women sounded proud of themselves, almost nostalgic, as if they were some kind of past accomplishments.”

    Alpha widows on display.

    What’s funny is what they find proud…makes me go, meh. Congrats on getting a cad to screw you…that was quite possibly the easiest thing you could do.

  11. @ Glenbert

    That girl wasn’t in love with you bro, sorry. Thats the point of the sphere and these posts. When a girl is truly in love, she CANT cheat unless you really step on your dick.

    They don’t believe that the cad at the bar will whisk them away, but they ARE willing to take the gamble that he might, and feminism has assured that she can take this gamble with relative (in pre-1900’s terms) ease.

    Keep going though, man, you are getting there. 6 months and you will have killed the beta, I can tell.

    Gym, paleo diet, and eat lots of red meat. Die early, FBGM. Do this, and the odds of getting one worth keeping to deep convert are better than 1 in 10 for you. Don’t do this, and it’s a lifetime of hell. The decision is yours.

  12. @Tilikum, thank. Oh, I very quickly concluded that she didn’t love me. Even pleaded with me that she did actually love me and that the whole thing was an aberration, I realized that she was a buffoon.

    I’m just starting to think that most inexperienced women are like this. The only seemingly red pill women that I have ever met were (purportedly) former carousel riders.

    I just thought it was timely that, as I was questioning the conventional measures of quality, the author questions the concept of quality period. Just because a woman hasn’t been on the carousel doesn’t mean that she doesn’t spend every day hoping to see what it’s like.

  13. The thing guys forget is they are basically dating a dude in a girl skinsack most of the time.

    A lot of the qualities men look for nowadays were requested by or trained into them by other men similar to how you START going to the gym because you realize test is a sex magnet.

    You continue to go to the gym because its routine, because you like it. Girls continue to do the things that make us wild because we like it, its routine.

    Seldom changes occur, but they do and we are all better for it.

    That’s all colors on the canvas though – whatever you make is still painting.

    The question id like to see dudes answer is does she measurably increase the quality of your life?

    I don’t mean in what she does, but I mean in your day to day. Do you get more done with ease? If so – shes _working_.

    Don’t get hung up on the qualities and start thinking of shared experiences you want to have with someone such that they leave you better off as a person then before you had them.

    You’d be surprised who is willing to give up their ANYTHING to live a life like that.

  14. You can find the virgin who wants to be your everything… But she’s fat and no one has ever looked at her with an appreciative glance.

    Different strokes and all that…

  15. Each of these women sounded proud of themselves, almost nostalgic, as if they were some kind of past accomplishments.

    I’m curious. Is this archived anywhere where you can listen to it? I’d like to hear exactly what they confessed to. I mean, I know the slutty things women do but I’d like to hear their stories.

  16. jack – I doubt it is. CBS removed all the videos last April as soon as Tom Leykis came back

  17. Men are the inventors of the chastity belt, moral law, the commandment of adultery, and every religious condemnation of sexual promiscuity for the past 10,000 years.

    It doesn’t surprise me at all that men look for a way to find quality women…we inevitably do it over and over again regardless of being called insecure, peter pan, etc.

    On a related note, can you imagine depression conditions where you only make $100 a month salary? Iphone or starve….hmmmm…..tough

  18. I agree with a previous commenter. If she adds value to you life, she’s asmuch of a quality woman as you need. Don’t give her power, don’t get oneitis, don’t marry her. If she proves unfaithful, find another one. There’s no need to constantly seek the holy grail, all women are basically the same. I am a serial monogomist, usually my relationships last 1-3 years. The woman I am dating cooks, cleans and does thinkgs like that for me. If she cheats or decides to leave, find another one. Doesn’t make her a bad woman, just makes her a woman. You have to understand women’s flaws and accept them. Doesn’t mean you marry a slut, just means you know the rules before you play the game.

  19. Guys tend to apply this term at their leisure not so much to define what they’d like in a woman (which is actually an idealization), but rather to exclude women with whom they’d really had no chance with in the first place as an ego-preservation method”

    disagree with this reasoning. i could never hook up with Kim Kardashian, but thats not the reason she isn’t a quality woman to me.

  20. Marriage wouldn’t be bad if the legal system hadn’t been destroyed by the Left. I really would like to get married but I have worked my ass off to make a really good living and lifestyle. I do not want to risk losing that. It looks like serial monogamy for me too.

  21. Dr Illusion: Very good words of wisdom. The mini-relationship(1-3 years) is truly the relationship of the future for red pill men. The relationship usually ends when the woman inevitably makes a desperate push for marriage, usually in the form of some kind of weak ultimatum. I have had this happen many times. You’d be surprised how easily a woman will replace you with just some other guy when they are in marriage mode. All of the women who’ve claimed to love me replaced me very quickly with some other marriage-minded dude when I broke it off with them. Basically, when a woman wants to get married she can plug any lame-ass guy into that equation and it will “work.” Don’t fall for that love nonsense. It’s just a silly fraud that women use to get what they need from men.

  22. Lol what the fuck is this. You’re an apologist for whores. How many different dicks have been in your wife’s mouth? It’s relevant to the discussion.

    If the army started putting out recruitment posters looking for “quality soldiers”, presumably your reaction would be that they were being “idealistic” to imagine that there are any men in the world who aren’t fucking cowards and even the most worthless coward is capable of loading ammo into the barrel of a tank. Whoop-dee-doo, so what if he can.

    The standard, the “ideal” exists for a reason, stupid. It’s for people to live up to, to get their bearings by, and to reflect against. Throwing it out doesn’t make anything better, it makes things worse because people start to believe there is nothing to measure up to. A slut is a fucking traitor to her future husband. It’s like working for the enemy expecting to one day join the CIA. And just like in court, ignorance of the law is not a valid excuse for breaking it.

  23. The reason men search for such women is because they did exist, back in the era when you married your high school sweetheart and stayed married.

    Starting in about the late ’70s, parents started encouraging their daughters to “play the field” and not settle down with boyfriend #1 or #2. Then these women grew up to become parents and raised their girls as boys, right down to giving them men’s names like Taylor and Drew, and pushing them into careers instead of homemaking.

    Men’s problems have come about because their minds are still stuck in the old 1950s paradigm, which grew out of the traditions of religion and the old agrarian and industrial societies. In order to embrace the New Girl Order, men will have to recognize feminism and the pursuit of materialism over family is the new mindset of middle class women. I don’t see that happening.

  24. @dude

    You’d be surprised how easily a woman will replace you with just some other guy when they are in marriage mode.”

    Truer words have never been spoken. I have seen it many times

  25. I haven’t thought of “quality woman” in absolute terms since I’ve seen what woman is (as well what man is) to the extent of nullifying or annhihilating such fantasies or illusions. The harsh reality of “quality time” in their presence makes sure of it. Sure, I’d hoped for the dream (as most have at some point of their life) but that has passed for me since age 13 [and I still have the marks of its passing, on my body].

    Some things you can’t really communicate to your fellow man, especially when they’re caught up in beta-ism just to have a shot at regular coitus for once in their life.
    I just can’t ever be serious enough, in words or facial expression, to convey a desire for commitment to a woman, especially without a pressing sense of feeling limited in the SMP.
    The marketplace is just that, a marketplace. Frankly put, (as a solid schizoid) I’m not involved enough with others to be sufficiently interested in participating. I’m into intellectual discussions for information or solely rational communication, but those aren’t really to be had with women, nor do I think they should be mistaken as a functional basis of a relationship with them.

    As a sort of devil’s advocate I’ll take a wild shot at “quality woman” in my view:
    She knows her role and the stregnth of submission to somene stronger, and loves taking it; a follower, amiable, complementary; values intelligence and agrees with cultural traditions (her holding marraige sacred is pretty much too much to ask for these days); is quiet when my presence demands of it; doesn’t put on an air of knowing better than I; is a true helper, lives to help, all the while her needs are sustained; femininity such as described above.

  26. It seems to be widely acknowledged in this community that: females provide eggs = males provide commitment. Further, it seems widely acknowledged that men who indiscriminately provide commitment to females are “beta” and will ultimately repel females, rather than attract them; that they are not “quality” males that females will desire, from a female perspective. I concur with this widely held sentiment.

    Inversely, logic would hold that women who indiscriminately provide eggs (sexual access) will repel males (for commitment), rather than attract them; that they are not “quality” females that males will desire (for commitment), from a male perspective.

    The former is the the logic perpetually put forward in this community (not this site, specifically), not necessarily the real world, as it exists. Given that the community seems to embrace the first logical proposition, I find it puzzling that there exists any haze or lack of clarity involving its inverse. By definition, “quality females” are those that maintain their quality as females (protecting eggs for combination with quality DNA).

    An individual’s proclivities may not adhere to this logic, but the logic remains.

  27. So I’m reading this famous tech essay “The Law of Accelerating Returns” by Ray Kurzweil. The theme is that technology and societal evolution is speeding up. Some tech observers ridicule this essay and its believers in what Kurzweil predicts as this hyper-optimistic view of the coming “Singularity”, when machines start to think and begin to design ever intelligent machines that starts a loop from which society will not overcome.

    A lot of what the guy says has come to pass. I started working with Clusters back around 2007. Cheap commuter parts, amazing software that had come into open source, such as a file systems that could handle exabytes of storage from Government Projects in exotic think tanks like Sandia Labs. Gigabyte and 10 Gig network switches that had been so exotic just 5 years before, now had cards available for practically nothing. Big 48 port high speed switches that would have been 10,000 dollars were $500, big 1/2 terrabyte disk drives where a few hundred. A guy built a cluster out of 2X4s and motherboards in his garage that would have run circles around anything, anywhere 10 years before. And I felt that clusters where about where general computers where in 1987 when Unix was just beginning to get traction in the development world, compilers and tools were starting to not be primitive.

    So the acceleration of clusters from an idea to current utilization in clouds, virtual systems, Hadoop doing computations and learning systems, 1000s of computers joining to solve problems, that learn, that almost think has come extremely fast.

    In 5 years that whole market has done what took 15 years to go from where computers where in 1987 to where they were in 2002. So a lot of Kurzweil says is occurring but the nature of it is apparent more to those in the technical trades and in behind the scenes implementations. So he is not so far off in the core of what he predicted.

    But the guy had the section on future Virtual Reality.

    He stipulated in back in 2001, when the original essay was written, that already there were ways of communicating with brain neurons with non-intrusive devices. And that Neuroscience was growing and developing as fast as computers.

    He projected that by 2030, the technology would exist for “nanobots” to be introduced to the human brain.

    These nanobots would station themselves by the neurons and interdict the true environmental stimuli sent to the brain by the body for sight, hearing, smell, tactile sensations. The brain could “think” to move the muscles and those neurons would receive the brains instructions to the muscles, yet not communicate those instructions to the body,. Those nanobots would receive external signals to supply the neurons with alternative stimuli for entirely different reality, for sight, hearing, smell, tactile sensation, muscle feedback.

    So I figure when that happens, then we’ll have true “quality women” and I ain’t ever leaving the fucking house ever again.

  28. “So I figure when that happens, then we’ll have true “quality women” and I ain’t ever leaving the fucking house ever again

    Thank you. Very helpful. We’ve all progressed our lives based on your riveting insights. You moved the conversation forward. Attack. Really don’t want to dog you, so why don’t you share your true feelings, which are always interesting, if not a warning sign.

  29. The fabled “Mark Mintor,” and his ilk. Give me a break. Mintor is solid as solid comes, no doubt. But he’s just a guy, like the rest of us, including me. Is it possible to have conversations amongst ourselves without anyone being the particular well-framed alpha leader? Or would that be non-“alpha”–to just hold a coversation. Really that difficult? Or must we out-alpha each other at every turn. Seems a meaningless existence to me. But, fine. You win. I bend over. Give it to me. Give it to me hard; how has that advancd the conversations? Now what? You win? Game over? Then what’s the fucking point of having a conversation? Or would you rather discuss shit and work shit out so that we can all better ourselves for it? Where are your loyalties? You, or us?

  30. I don’t really know what all that means. I just thought I would leave sort of a potentially humorous reference to the confusion of what a “quality women” entailed, one that theoretically we could define her virtually as a solution.

    Look, the really great thing about the internet is that it you access it through a browser. And I have 4 used different browsers at different times, Explorer, Opera, Chrome and now mostly Firefox. The down arrow key works on all of them to quickly speed you past content you don’t like. And if I recall, on all them, the space bar, paged down.

    I tend to writer longer comments, so maybe just go ahead and hit the space bar twice. And you’ll be past it.

  31. But realistically, I find women to be like razors. The quality ones cost more. All can cause irritation no matter the quality. And they all get dull with time and are best changed regularly.

  32. Didn’t really see it at first but the image that accompanies this essay just defines pathos. Sympathetic pity but also contempt. If only it were staged. Don’t think so.

  33. “It becomes a psychological feedback loop – connect with a “Quality Woman”, discover her flaws, personal conditions and the decisions she made that resulted in them, then (after attempts at rationalizing them himself) disqualify her from the Quality Woman designation. The cycle comes full circle when her disqualification as a Quality Woman sets the environment for finding his next ‘jewel in the rough’.”

    A red flag that is sometimes easy to overlook is if a man describes you as “perfect.” It lets you know that you will be dropped like a hot potato the second you no longer overlap with what a “perfect” woman would do. I.e. when you have human moments.

    “I am saying that an important part of unplugging oneself from the Matrix is letting go of the idealization of the Quality Woman.”

    This is really the hallmark of the Enlightened Man. As n/a recently said so beautifully, “I take the claws with the purrs, kiddo, they’re not sold separately.”

    “There are a lot of caring and nurturing former sluts, and there are pristine and chaste women only lacking the proper motivation to move them in a direction no one would ever expect of them.”

    Sometimes experience isn’t a negative thing. When someone learns from mistakes, they are actually in a better position to be a better partner/person. A pristine and chaste woman may stay just that, but there is also the possibility this makes them more susceptible to sin.

  34. The “Quality Woman” is man’s unicorn. The very thought of this implies “settling” which means game becomes loose.

    As I’m now discovering in my own journey, women want to be gamed.

    As for “quality”..this is relative. If you look at character, you don’t want to be with a crack-head alcoholic.

    After that, finding a “Quality Woman” is on part with finding a “Soul mate”–an idealistic pursuit that circumvents the need for game.

  35. Rollo,

    As a reforming AFC, I have to say my thinking about “Quality women” is somewhat antipodal to your conclusion.

    AFC wise, the “Quality Woman”, was a way of saying, I accept this unattractive women because she had other “qualities” which the feminist movement brainwashed me into accepting (NewThin). It was a mental model to avoid going after the women I was physically attracted to. A buffer of sorts, in order to stay in the current relationship.

    Quality women were not the women I could not get or have, but the women I ended up with and needed a way to explain it to myself why this is a good choice. I believe the term is Ego defense mechanism.

    Its not that there were Quality women, and hoas. Categorically there was the ONEItis, attractive women, quality women then low quality.. 🙂

    Thinking about this right now, I feel the term Quality Women is a feminist world created term for men to accept whatever a woman’s sexual history, and accept her as she “is”…..

    In fact I was such a brainwashed AFC, I didn’t even consider her sexual history, that would be judgmental, and against western society rules.

    FWIW

  36. When a man says he is in love then what he’s actually saying is that he found that girl/woman and she’s the one he can project all his good parts, his idealizations into her – She’s the one he chooses to put all the good parts of himself into.

    A woman doesn’t do that. They ‘love’ in a different fashion.
    (inspired by Otto Weininger)

    Thank you for your blog and all the effort.

  37. “Sometimes experience isn’t a negative thing. When someone learns from mistakes, they are actually in a better position to be a better partner/person. A pristine and chaste woman may stay just that, but there is also the possibility this makes them more susceptible to sin.”

    I’d take a chaste woman that hasn’t sinned yet over a reformed slut. If the slut is truly reformed she doesn’t blame men, society, her conditions, etc. on her bad choices and takes accountability for her actions. But she still has those experience imprinted in her head.

  38. How old are you, earl? There is a window for men too. If you want to get young girls who haven’t been “imprinted,” you’d better consider marrying by your mid-thirties. If you’re not willing to get in the marriage game, as you age, you’ll (eventually) be reduced to dating other men’s ex-wives. If that doesn’t bother you (it doesn’t both some older men), no worries. If you want the realization of a woman who is purely yours, you’d better find her and keep her sooner rather than later, depending on your current age.

  39. “If you’re not willing to get in the marriage game, as you age, you’ll (eventually) be reduced to dating other men’s ex-wives.”

    No…because I get to pick who I want to date. It’s one of the great things about being a man.

  40. You can pick all you want, but, at a certain point, the supply you’re looking for won’t be there/interested in you. How do you think women become “imprinted” in the first place? Men who don’t want to marry them. You have to recognize that you’re shooting your future self in the foot as much as the carousel riders everyone claims to dislike. Just a friendly suggestion from an old fogey 😉

  41. The betas and their desire for the “quality woman” do indeed remind me of the damaged goods pining for their prince charming/Christian Grey/Mr. Big/etc. Neither will ever get (nor deserve to get) what they want because the objects of their desires don’t want them. They are their own problems.

  42. You must assume rejection means anything to me anymore.

    I approach and close women that strike my fancy all the time. Sure I get rejected more often than naught…oh well. How many guys you approach this week?

  43. Besides it doesn’t matter what age she is…they all respond to the same attraction cues. Age in a guy doesn’t matter.

  44. Please confirm if I am reading your correctly. It seems your argument is a combination of the “painting the bullseye”, pedestalization, and the male equivalent of list-making. To expand: Quality woman by reworking the internal definition to the girl. Quality woman as a pedestalizing her with virtues she may or may not have. Finally, quality woman as in rejecting girls by their past while they actually have genuine attraction and capable to be a good partner.

    Yet, I can’t help that while I sense your true direction, the supporting points seems to argue to “surrender to the inevitability of marrying some raging former slut”. It is hard to read arguments point out Leykis’s women callers with lines like “sense that most guy’s concept of a quality woman is an unrealistic idealization” and “Quality Woman is an impossibility even for the most gracious of women” then not conclude the lesson is to abandon hope of being treated well – taking the post only and ignoring commentary and common manosphere thinking about foreign women and etc.

    Lines like “it’s as easy as reading her social media footprint archived for all to read”, have little bearing bullseye effect or pedestalization scarcity and indirect meaning for “list-making”. However, such points made easily implies to conclude an inevitability of reformed raging slut is the best one can hope and expect. You made qualifiers neutralize such implication, but then why frame such supporting points that serve for such arguments when it is not meant that way in the first place?

    I know you’re not saying this, though to say this point anyways. There’s a reason why virginity and/or low partner count is brought up so much and brought up by posts by Roissy of its effects. A caring, nurturing former slut seems to be exceptions than the rule and this blog seem to examine rules than exceptions. Of course, you probably mean careful of wanting some perfect, idealized girl that is entirely unrealistic than not screening girls that slut it up with no remorse. However, I don’t think most have that problem inside or outside the manosphere.

  45. After that, finding a “Quality Woman” is on part with finding a “Soul mate”–an idealistic pursuit that circumvents the need for game.

    The Myth of the Quality Woman is nothing more than a watered down version of the Soulmate Myth.

    Most guys are smart enough to understand that there isn’t one person on earth that is cosmically destined to be your one and only true love, but unfortunately lots of men will never let go of the idea that there is solid line that separates good girls from bad.

    A lot of this has to do with rationalizations and ego preservation, but the romantic spirit that lives in all men is also a culprit. That shit doesn’t die easily. We are all romantic suckers deep down, and acknowledging that there is no such thing as a “good” girl means choking the red pill ALL THE WAY DOWN.

    Most guys simply lack the fortitude to accept reality without some sort of filter.

  46. American women are undate-able and absolutely unmarriable. My heart goes out for the beta male whose destiny is to wade through their quarter-pounder wive’s rolls of fat for enough friction to release a few drops of mucus into an infertile womb.

    At heart I am a romantic man. I fall in love with almost every woman I seduce because I believe in some part they are seducing me back. I do enjoy looking into their eyes sometimes even getting lost and feeling the warmth that they radiate from within. It’s a nice feeling but it is a fantasy at best. We know what it takes to get a woman to submit to your will and how fleeting that victory will be without the proper maintenance. The reality of the situation is that we are living in a woman’s world where the second a woman decides she has better options you are fucked.

    I have a couple decades in front of me that I will spend with beautiful young women with no commitment from me whatsoever. I would really like to get married one day and drop out of the game but I doubt I will because the woman I’m looking for doesn’t exist. She is but an archetype; perfect, beautiful, and forever faithful and she doesn’t exist…

  47. “She may look fit, sexy and sophisticated, but after she’s naked with mascara running down her face and she’s trying to stuff her thighs into a pair of too-small jeans at 2:00 a.m., you realize she’s just another person trying to get by.” – Paul Janka

    The more judgemental they think you’ll be, the more they’ll hide from you. I’d rather she’s comfortable admitting to me that she sucked got drunk and sucked off a football team last weekend so I can decide what I want to with that information, than have her lie to me and tell me that nothing happened on her Girl’s Night Out. Plenty of PUAs run bootcamps all over the world…they’re fucking those magical high-quality non-slutty EE Good Girls that Manosphere guys put up on a pedestal, when they pass thru town to teach bootcamps.

    The guys worshipping those girls just don’t know that because the realization would shatter the last bits of hope in the myth in their mind so they ignore the signs and convince themselves it doesn’t happen to stay in their comfortable bubble, and the girls can tell they wouldn’t take it well so they don’t tell them, just like the Leykis phone-in wives haven’t told their husbands about all their sexual adventures.

    Accepting that the Madonna/whore complex doesn’t exist is the hardest final swallow of the Red Pill. Often even good players (esp Naturals) refuse to swallow it.

    Every guy listening to that Leykis episode thought to himself “wow THOSE girls are slutty disgusting whores. MY girl isn’t like that and neither are any of the women *I* know.” Sorry, I know it’s uncomfortable, but one day your daughters will probably be sucking my son’s dick in a bathroom somewhere. They’ll be just as capable of it as any other girl when the right switches are flipped. Don’t delude yourself, deal with reality as it is not as you wish it was.

  48. Like Tyler has said it’s crazy what lengths guys will go to keep that illusion, how much obvious evidence they’ll ignore and hamster rationalize to convince themselves their girl (or EE girls) are “different”.

    Two recent anecdotes:

    1) I’m at a bar the other weekend and this chick I know sees me there. I fucked her friend like a champ and almost fucked her too, so the sexual tension is still there in her mind. She runs over and hugs me and grinds me and talks to me with her face an inch from mine while I do nothing to encourage any of it. I see her up on other random guys too. Turns out her BF shows up later in the night. This poor dude, complete beta, just follows her around all night with a sad lost puppydog look on his face while she flirts with a bunch of other guys and myself, completely disrespecting him.

    They went home together (felt bad for him, I don’t like taking girlfriends off normal nice dudes so I ignored her the rest of the night and didn’t push it when she came over to hug and grind on me saying her goodbyes before she left (while her bf stands behind her not being introduced to the guys and holding her jacket looking sad)).

    Do you think that guy went home and thought “my gf is a raging slut and I should dump her because I want a Good Girl”? No. He told himself that we were just “friends” and it’s nothing to worry about. And she told him we’re just friends because she knows he wants something to believe. Sub-consciously he knows…he KNOWS that shit. But it’s too fucking scary to accept that the girl he planned his future with (and he knows he can’t get another one easily if he breaks up), would have sucked me off in the bathroom of that bar in a heartbeat.

    Over time he’ll build up enough of a fantasy rationalization world in his head (“oh her personal trainer is just friendly and she likes working out to look good for me, that’s why she’s sore all the time after the gym”, “oh I saw her car driving past me on my way home from work when she said she was working late, she was probably just getting food for her late shift even tho she was starving when she got home and immediately ran to the shower before letting me see her”, etc). And then in her 30s she’ll chill on it because she’s had her alpha cock and she’s getting old and guys don’t want her anymore so she’ll calm down and become the Good Girl her BF always knew she was.

    And he’ll tell himself “see I knew I had a special one who’s different from those sluts my buddies were banging all those years!” And she’ll call into the Leykis show to tell him (with PRIDE) about the night she sucked my dick in a bar bathroom. And he’ll be driving to work listening to the show and think “that caller sounds a lot like my girl but I know it’s not mine because mine isn’t a slut like these girls. I wonder what poor sucker is married to THIS chick lolz” and change stations to listen to some romantic beta love songs about how true love overcomes all and men can’t live without a woman loving him.

    2) Nice guy buddy of mine admits he has a crush on a Good Girl in our group. He’s convinced she’s a special unique delicate flower. She forced her # on me the other day when no one was around because she wants to fuck and knows I won’t be clingy or judge her for that, and it would take literally <10 txts to get her to send me naked pics and <20 txts to get her to fuck me this weekend. He would never believe me if I told him, and I won't do it cause he's my buddy and likes her, so even if they got together he would be convinced she was a Good Girl and NAWALT…

    …when the reality is, she has the same slut potential/inclination as every other girl, she just hasn't been put in a situation where the right triggers are flipped (ie – a high-value sexual guy like me directly flirting with her and making her gina tingle as I create a non-judgemental sexual environment and smoothly escalate).

    The magical amazing EE girls are the same way. You can either lock them away in your basement so they're not allowed to ever see or interact with another man for the rest of their lives…or you can work on being the highest-value man you can be, don't make her the center of your existance, and accept her for the sometimes flawed human being she, like any of us, really is.

  49. GLC – “Most guys simply lack the fortitude to accept reality without some sort of filter.”

    Oh so fucking true!

    When I married my sons mother I was very take it or leave it. But as time went by, this woman became more of an illusion in my mind, then the real person she is. I have become a wart on her ass! I have a HUGE filter that only now I am noticing and trying to destroy.

    I can’t remember which one of you said it awhile back, but you said something like, “the red pill should not make you hate woman, it should just make you realize what/who woman are. They are neither good nor bad, they are just woman. When you accept this, it is much easier to love them for who they really are, and not the image in your mind.”

    I repeat this as my morning mantra now, and slowly the scales are dropping away from my eyes regarding my sons mother.

    Big thanx to all in the Manosphere for sharing and helping one another.

  50. Okay, now I want to ask this as more comments comes it. No matter how I read it, the final conclusions to derive from stories and points made does not sounds like the sentences concluded from commentators. I mean it’s serious shit if one have to repeat it as a mantra every morning to calm down.

    Is the final red pill mean accepting “women = shit” point or to avoid pedetalization by (falsely attributed) purity of a girl with a combination of wishful thinking and enabling to be a loserly beta – and giving up the idea of expecting a girl (worth keeping around) not sleep with the football team.

    I don’t see it so hard to swallow for any person that any girl is capable to cheat and/or be cruel. But I can see it is hard to swallow is one have to accept that. There’s a big difference between taking the message from like “she’s just another person trying to get by” versus taking a message “she’s comfortable admitting to me that she sucked got drunk and sucked off a football team last weekend so I can decide what I want to with that information, than have her lie to me”.

    Maybe it’s just semantics. But the “damage of wishful thinking of viewing girls as quality” versus “myth of the quality woman” – well the latter tends to invoke the thought there’s no differentiation. I mean, to take from YaReally’s story, no one wants to be that beta guy. The lesson rationalize away, not accept her behavior as acceptable with a choice to living in ignorance or expose it… Right?

  51. @Dreamer

    You’re already coming from the wrong place if you’re screening for girls “worth keeping around”. You should be pursuing girls for fucking, not keeping/investing. Keeping a girl should not enter your mind. It shouldn’t be a thought. It shouldn’t even have a tiny place in the darkest corner of your mind. When you meet an attractive girl, your brain should being saying “let’s fuck, let’s fuck, let’s fuck” instead of “can I invest, can I invest, can I invest”. Guys who think like that are basically searching for their oneitis. It reeks of betatude.

  52. @Leo G
    That’s my general message around here, so that might’ve been me. But whether it was or not, I agree whole-heartedly with that mantra you wrote and I’m glad it’s helped you pull the curtain back in your life.

    When I talk about girls doing these “terrible” things, I always try to stress that they’re just acting on their instincts/emotions. You don’t get mad at a big dumb dog for shitting on the carpet because it doesn’t know better. A lot of the reason guys are extra butt-hurt about “these terrible bitches” is because they built such a perfect vision in their head of who the girl is that she couldn’t POSSIBLY live up to it and was inevitably going to disappoint him…or even if she found a way to live up to what he wanted her to be, he would never truly know HER because she would just be hiding her real self for his benefit.

    I say show me who you really are. As long as you’re mostly a good person, I can let a few flaws slip…we all have them and we all define them differently. A flaw to me is cute to some other guy. Something I think is fine is a flaw to some other guy. Just be yourself around me and let’s let the chips fall where they may.

    @Dreamer
    “Is the final red pill mean accepting “women = shit” point”

    Nah, that’s kind of the point, is that they aren’t “shit”…they’re just human. Like you and me. And their hypergamy is powerful as fuck and controls a lot of their decisions…if you had a bladder problem and kept pissing your pants every 5 minutes and you pissed on my floor, I wouldn’t yell at you because I know you probably wouldn’t do it if you could control it.

    “I don’t see it so hard to swallow for any person that any girl is capable to cheat and/or be cruel. But I can see it is hard to swallow is one have to accept that.”

    I understand what you’re saying. Again in the bladder problem, I could just stop inviting you to my house. Like good luck with that, it’s rough, but why should I accept that?

    But the problem is that the alternative myth doesn’t REALLY exist. You don’t have to accept that your girl is capable of cheating or doing bad things…but you will spend a lot of your life disappointed and alone and without loving relationships because girls will keep disappointing you.

    I’d imagine this is a big part of why guys become MGTOWs…because they say “girls are pretty fucked up, and that isn’t what I want in my life, so fuck it I’m going my own way and paying for hookers if I need sex”. In a way I can respect that they’ve made a logical decision and executed it. But at the same time, they’re never going to experience a lot of the awesome things women offer in terms of sex and companionship, even if those women are flawed at times or have the potential to BE flawed.

    Again it’s important to stress that a woman isn’t generally setting out to suck off a football team. But if you’re a guy who isn’t the best guy she can get, and a better offer comes along, her hypergamy will take over. So work on yourself as a man, learn to keep her attracted, and then just let go and accept what happens.

    Like the scene in Fight Club: “Quit trying to control everything and just let go.”

    “I mean, to take from YaReally’s story, no one wants to be that beta guy.”

    The funny part to me is that any guy who reads that story will LAUGH at that “loser beta guy, what a chump lolololz”. Meanwhile when they meet a girl that’s hot enough that they don’t feel entitled to her or that they can get 10 more just like her, or they invest enough time and enough of their identity into her being in their life…they’ll do exactly what that guy did, and they’ll rationalize it away to keep themselves ignorant and keep their fragile world-view scotch-taped together, just like that guy did.

    “The lesson rationalize away, not accept her behavior as acceptable with a choice to living in ignorance or expose it… Right?”

    I would say basically this: Know what you accept and don’t accept from other people, especially women. Meet a lot of women. Figure out which things are definite deal-breakers for you, and which things you can be flexible on if they’re amazing in other categories. Like how guys talk about marrying a “nice” 8 instead of a “bitchy” 10 because the 8 is a good person and loving and a good cook and would be a good mother to their children etc.” That person has decided “looks are something I can be flexible on if the girl makes up for it in these other ways…so she can be flawed in that way, even if another guy might not accept that flaw or might not care whether she’d be a good mom”.

    The problem is most guys don’t meet/date/fuck many girls in their life, so they don’t KNOW what they want or what they accept. They let social conditioning tell them what they should think and accept and often it doesn’t really click and just leads to a lot of Disney-like expectations.

    Now on the flip side of all that, also meet a lot of women and learn what they’re REALLY like. And then realize that if you want a toaster-oven that makes smoothies, but none of the toaster-ovens out there actually have that feature, if you really want a toaster-oven you might have to be flexible on that smoothie feature thing.

    Where each guy settles on this spectrum of “what I want VS what’s realistically available” is up to the individual guy.

    The guys who make up fantasies about magical special women who are “different” are guys who cram fruits into their toaster-oven until they splatter and catch it in a cup going “SEE? I told you they can make smoothies!!” It’s delusional but it keeps them from having to admit that their toaster-oven is the same as any other toaster-oven.

    See http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2012/09/14/comment-of-the-week-sexual-self-control-is-a-male-thing/#comment-367897 for more.

  53. “A lot of the reason guys are extra butt-hurt about “these terrible bitches” is”

    It’s because the system lied to them about how things work. If the system told men from the beginning that women were whores then men would have no problem as they’d adjust their behaviour to treat women as they were worth. What pisses men off is they were told by the system that women aren’t whores and that they should and did provide a level of socio-economic production and achievement commensurate with women who aren’t whores. Essentially the system has defrauded men of women’s true value.

  54. The modern western girl is going to have a slutty past. This is unavoidable. There is no changing this fact. The only two paths are acceptance or self destruction.

    Is this optimal for the man that has notions of traditionalism? No it isn’t but so what? You can’t control the era that you were born in. Every single man that has ever come into this world has had to deal with issues and circumstances that were unfavorable. Wallowing in pity isn’t the answer. The solution is accept the environment and push for success.

    Besides what man here has not riden on the beta roller coaster of either giving away their time and resources to girls that were out of their league or fallen to the siren’s song of cheetos, halo and porn? The man in the mirror is the polar opposite of the cock caroseul whore. He chose to be a loser that knew deep in his heart not to be a beta bitch but accepted bonds that were shackle free.

    Now here you are, shallowing your medicine. Trying to be the man that nature intended you to be. Women should also be given the opportunity to become true women again. If we can be saved despite the damage, I think the females of this perverted social environment can be too.

    I’m not saying you should man up and marry sluts. I’m advocating forgiveness to potentials. If a girl has behaved like a dirty whore, but still has raw talent in terms of looks and any kind of decent personality. That’s something in this world. Just as you can change your ways so can a willingly slut especially under the guidance of strong man. You have to be willing to accept flaws in people and make the best of it if you ever want to be free. The crux of the situation relies on power and control. Just make sure you’re the one that dictating the terms. Many flawed people can be allies because a true king brings out the best qualities while burning away the defects. A slut will be loyal to a man that has true high value. You will do anything for her king. Just ask Iceberg Slim.

    If you really want a good girl then I guessing that you will have to go the religious route and by that I mean grow up in that environment and marry at about 19. Good luck making it throught extreme beta feminine conditioning seen in Christianity these days though to even have the the hot girl in these circles agree to marry you.

    I guess what I’m trying to say is, that we live in very fucked up time in terms of social values and arrangements. You have to adapt or get ruined. Nothing will change these circumstances right now. No use to get consumed by the conditions. Just accept. Some men were born slaves with real chains and their whole lives were hell. We aren’t.

    “1) Depression. You become jaded, cynical, sad, miserable, and feel defeated. Life feels pointless and hopeless as your brain comes to terms with the new realizations that just butt-fucked everything you held close to your core about how the world works. You become bitter, angry at the world, frustrated by the unfairness, and probably end up a MGTOW (to be fair, you can become a MGTOW in a healthy positive way too, I don’t think they’re all bitter losers despite their shitty Public Relations lol). This can also be the catalyst for removing yourself from the game entire (certain types of MGTOWs, the grass eaters movement in Japan, etc. The only difference with these groups is that there’s more of a head-in-the-sand “fuck it then, I’m outta here, good luck with all that shit y’all” mentality, which, technically speaking is actually a little healthier than reveling in the depression from a day-to-day happiness standpoint lol)
    2) Acceptance. You accept the pain and shell-shock of what’s happening as a natural thing and eventually overcome it. You find new ways to appreciate the world around you despite it’s faults and you learn to accept reality for what it really is: flawed and imperfect but often filled with good things if you look for them. You realize that people are the same, we all have potential for good and bad, and that all of that is simply societal judgement attempting to solidify shades of grey into black and white for easier processing and teaching to new generations and to keep society stable.

    One thing about the film/book ‘Fight Club’ is that at the end the narrator achieved acceptance of his true self. He lived his life in the blue pill materialist world, created Tyler who showed him a different primal way to live, yet that world become a cult as well culminating with angst driven destruction. However at the end Ed Norton, killed off the black/white outlook of materialism versus primalism to become someone real. That’s not a slave to either side. That is self actualized. However, he had to go the nilhilisitic phase of primal destruction to achieve this balance. I think that’s what a lot of people are stuck in right now and the end game to is to kill their own personal ‘tyler durden’ to achieve totality.

  55. Some good Minter laughs and YaReally wisdom and war stories and only one asshole commentator. Not a bad night Rollo.

  56. “The magical amazing EE girls are the same way.”

    Depends. There are greater social consequences for slutting it up in some of those E.E countries. Even nude models in those countries are often dismissed as ‘fallen women’. I remember that gorgeous nude model Katie Fey(not her real name) talking about that once in an interview. She claimed that many Slav men wouldn’t accept her despite her looks because of what she does, and it’s not like she was banging guys on camera.

  57. @chris

    I agree 110%. That’s part of why guys have so much trouble with the Red Pill at first. Not ONLY do you have to accept a whole bunch of new shit about nice guys finishing last and how chicks dig bad boys and hypergamy and all that game related shit…but you also have to accept that:

    1) Society, including your friends, family, even your own MOTHER, has been lying to you your entire life. Everyone you thought you could trust was feeding you bullshit that wasted a good portion of your life.

    2) You were dumb enough to FALL for those lies hook line and sinker, despite evidence that looking back you realize was staring you in the face the whole time. (in reality you weren’t actually DUMB, just didn’t know better or have the resources to understand you were in The Matrix, but you FEEL dumb for falling for it all)

    3) Now that you’ve got your eyes open, you have to make MAJOR adjustments to the trajectory of your entire life, your plans, your career, your goals, your relationships, etc. because you can’t un-see what you see if you swallow the pill.

    So a lot of guys will see the pill and know it’s there but refuse to swallow it, or to swallow it all the way, because all those illusion-shattering realizations are too much to handle. It’s a lot easier to just feed your hamster some redbulls and continue on in the Matrix being willingly oblivious to reality.

    @FuriousFerret

    “Every single man that has ever come into this world has had to deal with issues and circumstances that were unfavorable. Wallowing in pity isn’t the answer. The solution is accept the environment and push for success.”

    “I’m not saying you should man up and marry sluts. I’m advocating forgiveness to potentials. If a girl has behaved like a dirty whore, but still has raw talent in terms of looks and any kind of decent personality. That’s something in this world. ”

    “You have to be willing to accept flaws in people and make the best of it if you ever want to be free.”

    “Many flawed people can be allies because a true king brings out the best qualities while burning away the defects. A slut will be loyal to a man that has true high value.”

    “we live in very fucked up time in terms of social values and arrangements. You have to adapt or get ruined. Nothing will change these circumstances right now.”

    I agree with all these things you’re saying. This is basically my own mindset. Quit fighting reality, accept it for what it is, adapt, and prosper. Whether that prospering means fucking a bunch of chicks, or whether that means becoming a MGTOW and avoiding women entirely. The worst thing you can do is sit around pissing & moaning about how the world won’t change to suit your demands overnight, and even worse taking that frustration out on other people (even women). Life is short, enjoy it while you have it.

    “That is self actualized. However, he had to go the nilhilisitic phase of primal destruction to achieve this balance.”

    I agree completely. You have to swing the pendulum to both sides to really know yourself, and figure out where on that swing it should really settle for you. I come off as extremely harsh and way onto the nihilistic side of things to most of the guys reading my stuff in the Manosphere but the reality is that this is actually not the most extreme end of things to me. I’ve seen/done worse and I’ve known guys who make me seem like a White Knight charming gentleman. For me, where I’m at right now is the self that I’m happy and content with, whether other people approve of it or not.

    Most guys will let society dictate where they should be on that pendulum, and they’ll let social conditioning convince them to never explore the other side of it, and they’ll spend their whole lives never really knowing themselves and living like Norton in the first half of Fight Club.

    “There are greater social consequences for slutting it up in some of those E.E countries.”

    I agree with this. I think 50’s style marriage was actually really benefitial for society. A girl was shamed for slutting it up and society accepted that, so while the girls still had urges, there was enough social pressure to make them less likely to act on those urges. And if they did fuck around they were a lot more discreet about it.

    My issue is mainly with the guys who think EE girls are wired differently like they’re these magical-ass creatures that are just “better”. Sure, in some out-of-the-way villages in the hills of EE somewhere there are girls who are shamed by religion into not acting on their impulses as often as a western YOLO eat-pray-fuck girl…but take that girl into civilization or put her around a guy who flips the right triggers and create a non-judgemental environment for her and she’ll act just like the western girl.

    That’s why I say, lock her in your basement and make sure she doesn’t interact with any other guys and you’ll be fine, if that’s the way you want to live your life. But fooling yourself into believing that they’re any less slutty than american girls or that they don’t have the same hypergamous instincts american girls do or that they wouldn’t behave in exactly the same way american girls do in the same circumstances and you are just deluding yourself and chasing a unicorn.

    The EE guy working at the grocery store might simply have more game than you and trigger her hypergamy and she’ll be sucking his dick while you’re ranting about the purity of EE girls, ya know? The solution to avoid that is to be the best man you can be and the highest-value man in her life…she won’t cheat on you if you are those things to her. But that’s the same solution for American women. “ohh well American women are all fat slobby shallow cows” is the usual response to that. And I agree, the girls the guys who say that can get here, are definitely those things. lol

  58. I’m convinced the manosphere is having a renaissance. Lots of new commenters and perspectives! Love the posts Rollo. Your commenters are what keep me addicted to the blog like crack.

    I want to echo the shout out to YaReally. The posts on heartiste and analysis of Scray’s FRs has legitimately improved my game. You drop lots of little tricks that handle the mechanical details of pickup. Even when not directly explaining that shit, it is addressed better than in a lot of pickup lit. The best part of your writing is your frame. You’ve clearly spent time in field. Some commenter makes a reasonable objection to you and your makes me think “duh, why did I even doubt Ya?” You’re that way with girls too. :] By copping those bits of frame, my personal frame has solidified waaay faster than it would otherwise. Example subjects:
    • Dropping the madonna/whore BS.
    • Never being a “friend zone” type of guy.
    • Going for taken, but interested, girls.
    • I sent your real world explanation of mLTR setup and frame to the guy with the best game I know (RSD forum guy, ~60 girls after 3yrs game) and he solidly tightened how he manages his girls.

    Shout out to Mark Minter. You bring real world experience. You actually shout it loud enough, passionately enough, to get even 24-year-old dumbass me to listen. Your rumblings on psychology and testosterone recently are interesting, I’m excited to see where that goes.

    Adam, good stuff! Just wanted to reprint this:

    @Dreamer
    You’re already coming from the wrong place if you’re screening for girls “worth keeping around”. You should be pursuing girls for fucking, not keeping/investing. Keeping a girl should not enter your mind. It shouldn’t be a thought. It shouldn’t even have a tiny place in the darkest corner of your mind. When you meet an attractive girl, your brain should being saying “let’s fuck, let’s fuck, let’s fuck” instead of “can I invest, can I invest, can I invest”. Guys who think like that are basically searching for their oneitis. It reeks of betatude.

    Sooo true. Wanting purely for fucking and letting my emotions follow their own course has improved my game and my relationships with women a lot.

  59. It’s difficult to believe in quality women once you hit your 40’s, deploy a few times and have some moderate success in the SMP.

    A wise man does not “love” a woman, he enjoys what she has to offer until her bullshit exceeds his enjoyment

    Seems to me that trapped in the 1950’s logic loop does a lot of harm and keeps a lot of men from dealing with reality

  60. Wow, Ferrett. Nice! I always wonder what men mean when they say “slut.” Are they simply referring to a woman’s number of sexual partners? Or, is it specific behavior, demeanor, attitudes? To me there’s a big difference between a woman who sleeps with everyone/anyone and someone who really screens and sometimes will sleep with someone special.

  61. “Or, is it specific behavior, demeanor, attitudes?”

    That’s what I refer a slut as. A woman trying to play a man’s game….and making bad decisions because of it.

    The male eqiuvalent of a slut is a guy trying to play a female game…and out nice all of them.

  62. To me, a quality woman is one who exerts self-discipline, and heeds and accepts the wise discipline of men e.g. father or husband.

    Since this is now almost entirely unheard of, quality women can’t be found roaming about any more than unicorns can be found roaming about…

    so, they have to be trained. Quality doesn’t just happen.

    It is taught.

  63. I completely disagree with the concept of “forgiveness” of a reformed slut, as it implies that your desires are somehow wrong.

    If by forgiveness, you mean to go ahead and fvk her, as you move on to some other girl to fvk, then I could agree with those terms.

    However by saying that men should ‘forgive” such women and commit to them in some manner is basically saying that men should forgo their SMP advantage in deferrence of hers.

    Look at it this way, women slut it up in their teens and 20’s. Then they find a guy to settle down with, right when he is hitting is prime value.

    Why, on earth, should a man “forgive” her, basically giving her a free decade pass to the carousel carnival while at the same time cutting his options off at the knees right when his value starts to really go up?

    That just makes no sense whatsoever. Women had their time in the sun in the 20’s, Men should take full advantage of their turn in the 30’s and 40’s and yes even 50’s if they take care of themselves.

    Anything short of that is tacit approval of women’s slutty behavior and a dedication to “manning up” and marrying one of those sluts. If some men want to do that, then sure go right ahead. I think it’s a very poor decision derived from a decade of pu$$y starvation.

  64. The man who fears the american influence on his woman is no different than the boyfriend who fears the male influence on his girlfriend.

    How influential are you as her man when you fear her even having a conversation with another man ?
    Her attraction for you must not be that strong if any little outside influence can jeopardize it.

  65. @ Danger…

    She has to do the forgiving of herself….but to do that it means she has to take accountability for her actions.

    A man bring that truth to her by explaining to her how freeing forgiveness is…she can either scream yell and blame all those evil men…or take onus upon herself.

    Does that mean marry her after she shows true contrition? Not necessarily…but she won’t have the pain and weight of her past weighing her down for the rest of her life…and that will make her more attractive to men.

  66. @Adam

    You have truth, however you didn’t address anything I said.

    Unless your argument is to say that anything I said is moot because I should only think about fucking.

    Unfortunately, life have the tendency to interact with women outside of such situations. For example things like co-workers or acquaintances-to-more-informal or just girlfriends of someone. Like assuming my little brother’s girl is a whore but just hiding despite years know her in some form doesn’t seem to be a helpful policy.

    So, what you said is true, but so is saying “@Dreamer well… 2+2=4”.

    Also within the context you’re targeting. It sounds like the main point is a mindset to prevent entering a beta type mode. It doesn’t mean not thinking about qualities of a girl.

    @YaReally

    So this one does address what was brought up. It does seem we are in agreement on that women are humans not “women = shit”.

    However, to mention from your examples. I don’t think most actually view EE women or any women are intrinsically different from other women despite the high praise read about the manosphere (or at least the bloggers and leading commentators). Now this probably semantics, but the word quality doesn’t necessarily mean intrinsic. It just mean a level of excellence. Thus the EE girl are arguably “better quality” regardless if it is the environment or upraising or somehow physically different. Quality is a word to describe this better treatment, behavior, demeanor, etc. (looks is assumed).

    This also applies to number of past partners. While it is not always true, but how many girls you know that slept on football team levels and not be an alpha widow? How many is a “potential” as Furious Ferret defined?

    That said…

    3) Now that you’ve got your eyes open, you have to make MAJOR adjustments to the trajectory of your entire life, your plans, your career, your goals, your relationships, etc. because you can’t un-see what you see if you swallow the pill.

    What is the hardest red pill if it does not means “women = shit”? If it means “women are human beings implying flaws and everything”. Well, I’m pretty sure most would agree to that statement. Most can swallow the idea of building an understanding what he really must have versus gravy. Most can swallow a non-trivial potential to be have flaws. Quality doesn’t necessarily mean perfection and I don’t think most think like that. Most recognizes there’s a spectrum and perhaps the distribution is some kind of bell curve. Manosphere is more aware and that’s the difference, but I think most can handle that pill.**

    **Well, I guess the ones that would have trouble is the people totally invested into chasing one girl who treats him awfully. But most most people inside and outside the manosphere are not that bad. Assuming the pill is not below what I keep sensing

    What I can see that would make it hard for any guy to swallow as a final red pill is myth of a quality woman means inevitability to take a girl like the beta guy example you made. The mindset of presuming every girl slept with the football team who speak with glee anonymously with a mic to the world and everyone you know girl’s is as bad or worse. That would be a red pill that is hard to swallow and implies a final solution of MGTOW (thus major changes to life, plans, career, goals, and everything).

  67. Dalrock (as usual) is on my same mental wavelength this week:
    http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2013/03/20/haunted-by-a-number/

    I think the problem most guys have is in being realistic about women’s sexual pasts. The woman regretting her N count in Dalrock’s post is in the double digits, but her preoccupation isn’t with the number but rather the epiphany she would have us believe she’s experiencing now later in life and the genuine want for sex with more emotional meaning attached to it.

    In the Tomassi book (and probably most guy’s) the girl is a slut, not because her N count is so high, but because there is no remorse or even recognition of the impact her past sexual escapades have had on her. She’s a slut because she’s in denial about being one and as per usual she resorts to the hamster and an apologetic fem-centrism to resolve any inkling of regret.

    But how many is too many? I explored that in the Slut Paradox, but one, single, unresolvable Alpha lover (Alpha Widow) will override the most devoted and forgiving string of Beta lovers for a woman.

    I rarely use the term slut because I think it’s the opposite extreme of ‘Quality Woman’. Most women fall somewhere in between on that bell curve and at different phases of their lives as opportunity and self-awareness dictate for them mitigated by the circumstances of their lives. Women are sluts of opportunity just as they’re saints of opportunity.

    I understand Danger’s take on this, and while I wont be a slut apologist, I also have to consider Good Luck Chuck’s take on this. If you take anything away from this post it should be caveat emptor – buyer beware. All the husbands of the women who called into Tom Leykis’ show that day probably thought their women were Quality when they married them and have no consideration for their wives (former) capacity to be sexual in such an extreme.

    Don’t forget, the “Quality” woman you met in a bookstore at 30, picking the kids up from soccer practice before she heads off to women’s bible study that night is the same girl who did sorority gangbang porn when she was in college at 22.

  68. All too true Rollo. I was the guy in his late teens and early 20’s who idolized a “pristine” girl. I grew up as I had more and more girls throw themselves at me, but it never changed my desire to have a woman without baggage.

    That of course doesn’t mean that I would not date women who weren’t perfect, I just made the best of a bad situation, shacking up for awhile but never commiting.

    Buyer beware is definitely the phrase to use, for me the answer has been to not be a buyer at all, but just a renter. That is the only way I can see to maximize to my advantage the current situation comprised of celebrated hypergamy, hookup culture, women’s mating strategy, and a misandric court system.

    I have no problem with sluts, my problem is with the societal expectation that I sacrifice my own desires in order to better satisfy the insatiable appetite of the feminine imperative.

  69. A man has to be a slut apologist to a degree in order to get by in today’s SMP.

    Today we don’t have the option to choose between Good vs. Slutty so we have to rationalize our mate choice. The spectrum of behavior has gotten so shitty we are forced to grade on a curve. We HAVE to give the chick with a dick count of 5 an “A-” because we can’t realistically expect much better. Especially when we hit OUR sexual prime. Your typical 35 year old guy who has “made it” might still be able to bang quasi-virginal 19 year olds from time to time, but what are the odds he will find one and settle down with her?

  70. Rollo is right (again). Get reality slapped in the face by this blog before it happens in real life. Back in college was when I first started dating seriously. High school consisted of a date here, a date there, the prom, etc. In college, I got more “serious” with women, which is stupid considering the amount of women on campus.

    First girlfriend, I thought, was Ms. Virtuous/Religious (I was into religion at the time, not anymore), a “quality” woman. (Not that hot, BTW, I was a raging AFC.) We went back to our homes for the summer and within a couple weeks she was dick dancing with someone else. What a wake-up call. I AFCed/begged her back after a breakup. (Yes, I should’ve been shot back then.)

    Another hotter gal on campus wanted to date me, I begged off because my roommate told me she was banging a few guys in the dorms the year before I got to college. I didn’t consider her a “quality” woman because of this. Yet in retrospect, she was kinder, funnier, easier going, and nicer than the so-called quality woman. She wasn’t perfect (no one is), but better, despite wild background. And she might have been difficult to date, who knows? But more “quality” than the so-called idealized “quality” woman.

    I later repeated mistakes on labeling quality/virtuous women, only to have them bang others on the side during my AFC days. I learned my lessons. Don’t give labels. See quality, but understand things can change in a hurry.

  71. This gets back to the notion that everyone’s personality is dynamic and shifts with time. As we grow, are perceptions and preferences change given our constant learning and experiences. Most heterosexual women go through stages of sexual expansion which includes taking on more partners and dating numerous men. Some women are better conditioned ( be it physically or psychologically) for the game, some start out with no game and work their way into dating. This notion that quality has a direct association with mileage makes me laugh. Who would you rather spend the rest of your life with; a woman that got a taste of something from the menu and STILL picked you or a woman who will always keep wondering if the special of the day was better than whats on the plate?

    Thats not to say that an “ideal” partner isn’t something tangible and I think a log of men could probably agree on some basic traits if we can first agree on a direction. The long term game is a partnership focused around advancing the career, kids, keeping chaos to a minimum in the household- and we all know there are personality traits better suited to that task. Stop me if you’ve heard this one: sexually aggressive woman you partied with back in the day ends up bumping into you into you after years of not seeing her. She’s now a mother of three and has an executive partnership at a firm. You say to yourself: how the fuck did this crazy woman pull her shit together? Time of course. We quantify our perceptions at given points in time. And that time metric is important not only for assessing our partners but assessing ourselves. A “quality” woman when you are 18 means something totally different than when you are middle age. When I’m 35, the ideal woman in my situation is one that can manage the rigors of parenting, working and managing a relationship that’s got time demands pulling in every direction without cracking under the pressure. That woman is gold. yet I doubt that standard is entering into the mind of a 20 year old. And why should it?

  72. @Lumpy
    Glad my writing has helped ya! Always happy to hear my tapping away in the keyboard does some good for another guy. 🙂

    @Ace
    “or a woman who will always keep wondering if the special of the day was better than whats on the plate?”

    For the record this is one of the easiest girls to convince to cheat. It’s like, laughably easy, because they’re already kind of curious to begin with. Just remove judgement, consequences, help her hamster rationalize it (which it wants to do ANYWAY), and expand on the spark of curiousity that’s already in her sub-conscious and it’s done.

    Hell, these days her girlfriends will ENCOURAGE her to bang me, so they don’t feel so slutty around her. Lol

    Remember this when you unicorn guys finally find that magical unicorn. Better get your basement dungeon comfy cause you’ll have to lock her in it. 😉

  73. Many here seem to commit the blank-slate fallacy, but the truth is that a womans number is an indicator of her underlying genetic makeup. Women who sleep around alot are predisposed to do so and with this package also comes a higher chance of cheating.

    This is also the reason men evolved to find promicuosity in women unattractive, as the ones who didnt were eventually removed from the genepool.

  74. “Many here seem to commit the blank-slate fallacy, but the truth is that a womans number is an indicator of her underlying genetic makeup. Women who sleep around alot are predisposed to do so and with this package also comes a higher chance of cheating.

    This is also the reason men evolved to find promicuosity in women unattractive, as the ones who didnt were eventually removed from the genepool.

    A man being a spineless beta male for most his adult life is also an indicator of being a loser that in primal times wouldn’t have gotten laid. If you have acted like a castrated male you have a higher chance of continuing to be a low value guy for the rest of your life.

    Women also evolved to find being a pussy unattractive, and the ones that didn’t man up and achieve were removed from the genepool.

    If men can be forgiven for their beta past and allowed to change, so can a slut. Almost every woman in America is a slut. The practical solution is to find girls that are cool and have some looks and then lead them. If they don’t allow this then let them go. The days for religious morality hemming women in are over. As we move further and further from a universal moral code, the natural law of the jungle is the ultimate law. In nature, the strong prevail and the weak perish. Wrong or right have no consequence.

    With most people in life being fat, lazy, stupid and weak minded, why exclude a woman that’s cool simply because she rode on cock? If she looks good and has a cool vibe, I could care less. This is the USA. Where are all these attractive chaste women waiting around at?

    Put it another way, what if there is a girl out that that is chaste, feminine, really cool, killer looks. This woman is the woman version of the Alpha-Beta manicorn. She’s not going to be with you. She’s that ultra religious outgoing bubbly girl at church that marries at 21 to the resident super alpha Christian stud.

  75. @FuriousFerret
    Im not trying to condemn anyone but the fact is that women who are promiscuous do cheat and divorce more often and the reason for this lies in their genetic makeup(obviously there are enviromental reasons too).

    With this in mind, íf a man wants a monogamous relationship that lasts then he will have to take her number into consideration.

    Seems like common sense to me.

  76. See, here is the thing, this is what I want:

    But if that is impossible, if I am just to be a replacable utility, alrighty then.

    “Quality woman”?

    Maybe such a thing exists, would I be more than a washing machine to her?

    If not, what does her “quality” matter to me?

  77. “If men can be forgiven for their beta past and allowed to change, so can a slut.”

    Furious Ferret is now Furious Hamster.

  78. Go read the stories of betrayed men on infidelity support forums. Most of them appeared to have gotten married in their early 20s implying that their cheating wives couldn’t have had sky-high N counts. These chaste women hit 30 and go all Eat Pray Love because they’re too fucking sheltered and naive to know the ugly truth about the SMP. Boom, marriage destroyed by a formerly chaste woman

    Still the correlation between a lower N count and increased loyalty does make sense. I would just like to see some statistical evidence of its truth among this generation of women before accepting the common sense hypothesis. When it has come to my dealings with women, common sense approaches have burned me before.

  79. @Ace
    ” Who would you rather spend the rest of your life with; a woman that got a taste of something from the menu and STILL picked you or a woman who will always keep wondering if the special of the day was better than whats on the plate?”

    That not knowing is what’s gonna torture the dude who gets with her, but like Yareally said he’s gonna have that basement ready lol.
    “I got da girl who wasn’t corrupted” congrats man, now you just have to make it through the rest of your life wondering if her curiosity and thoughts of “what if ?” won’t develop into her cheating on you.

    @FuriousFerret

    “Put it another way, what if there is a girl out that that is chaste, feminine, really cool, killer looks. This woman is the woman version of the Alpha-Beta manicorn. She’s not going to be with you. She’s that ultra religious outgoing bubbly girl at church that marries at 21 to the resident super alpha Christian stud.”

    This is an example of delusion on men’s part.
    They think a quality woman is just sitting around waiting for them to approach her.

  80. “Furious Ferret is now Furious Hamster.”

    The problem I have with this statement is that I’m not spinning reality but accepting it. American women are sluts. They have lots of sex with multiple men before marriage. They slut around. They use their prime to live it up. That’s the world we live in.

    The only way to avoid sluts is through a super religious organizations and believe me you want nothing to do with those. They will brain wash you into betadom faster than even the mainstream media.

    The solution to the slut aspect is to first accept that almost all women are sluts. Then figure out the best way to deal with this fact. Become so high value in her eyes that the worst thing in the world would to cheat on you because she knows you would leave her faster than she can blink her eyes.

    It’s hard enough to find quality people in this world. It’s would be near impossible to find a non slut with the qualities that I want. The only men I know for certain have that are the ones with the hot evangelical princesses that married at 22 after meeting in some collegiate Christian circle and putting up with all that bullshit. Plus the hot chaste women had some of the most catty entitled personalities I’ve ever had the displeasure of meeting.

    In a perfect world, I wish we could have chaste hot feminine women that rain from the sky. I live in America. This isn’t happening any time soon. There are cool girls out there and yes being American they will be probably be fucked up in some way because that’s what our culture does to people. When they replaced restrictive religious values and mores something had to take it’s place. That something is nature. Nature at it’s core rages for women to compete for the top men and for those top men to fuck them. Betas have no role in the primal society but to strive to be an alpha or die.

    The real problem with slutty women is if you aren’t high value enough for her. That is the crucial aspect. If you can’t outcompete her alpha that fucked and left her, then yeah that’s a bad situation but I assure you that you can find tons of women where you she can be your alpha widow if you desire.

    Accepting that most women are sluts and while not optimal isn’t a killer isn’t hamsterbating. It’s reality. Besides the good girls that I’ve known have some of the most batty personalities I’ve ever witnessed. If you think that beta males have entitlement issues about having a good job should lead to sweet young ass, you haven’t seen anything when you meet the modern chaste women. He has to be a literally motherfucking manicorn. Alpha and beta in the right amounts at all the right times. Whereas, in the past this was expected, today it’s like currency she has put in the God bank and is awaiting her payout. In her mind all those years of being good has to have God bring her own Tim Tebow to her.

  81. The gist i’m getting is if woman see’s better man in a her reach just accept she will cheat and assume gal has or will ride the carousel. Ok, but shouldnt the correlary be that women accept that if a hotter gal gives off a DTF vibe that guy should be given a moral pass to tap that ass? All this is well and good but it presuppose that morality far as sexuality goes doesnt exist. If thats true and secret like that gets out what is to keep society together? If women love excitment and killers are exciting in no morality world beta males should become killers. Hell the Batman Shooter now has groupies so clearly works.

  82. To answer mg own question, doesnt it boil down to fear and incentives? In the past a girl sleeping around bad a very real chance of harming her and any offsprings survival. Men didnt pusue every woman because might end up with an ax in the skull. Even now there are punishments for the beta killer. But in world now the natural fear restraints on womens sexuality are for all intents and purposes are gone. This was not the state of nature when these behavoirs evolved, so can hypergamy run wild really be natural or is it not a allowance of Western Civilization? In removing consequences fear was removed and without fear there is no restraint.

  83. Just a point to add about “Quality Woman”….if quality is truly in the eye of the beholder, before learning game, I was meeting women I perceived as “Quality” woman–my ideal—only to be turfed as some needy beta.

    But these women were all the same: ingenues, entitled, bitchy, shit-testing and i put them on a pedestal.

    Now i’m meeting women who chase me, buy me gifts, cook for me and otherwise are great in bed.

    So the adoption of game and the re-framing as me being the prize has attracted women who are higher “Quality”….

  84. Women don’t mature; they just get old. A woman decides in her 30’s to settle down out of convenience. The great thing about the Manosphere is that it empowers men by repeating truism this in various different ways.

    I had no idea what my real SMV was until i started reading Dalrock/Roissy/Rollo. and now in my current job, i’m around plenty of women between the ages of 45-60, and it’s amazing to watch their hamsters do somersaults and backflips ad nauseum/ad infinitum. Just yesterday i heard a woman that’s pushing 50 complain that men don’t value ‘quality women’. This is a woman that divorced her well established beta husband for cash and prizes(imo), and discovered that her SMV wasn’t worth shit at the age of 45 when the divorce was settled. She has been complaining for years about men apparently, well before i got there, and if it wasn’t for the Manosphere i wouldn’t have had the precise understanding of her situation that i have now.

    The other day i had a female friend try to shame me for chasing after women that were 7-8 years younger than me. ‘They aren’t quality women, they are just going to use you etc’. Amazing. This is a woman that pretends to be a ‘quality girl’, yet i know she has had well over 20 sex partners in her life, and now she acts like a born again virgin waiting for a rich man to propose and make her life easier.

    If she was a quality woman i would have married her, but the reality is that people don’t change all that much. Sure they gain a certain amount of wisdom and learn to control their impulses to a degree, but i’ve noticed that the desires never truly go away, and tend to manifest themselves in different ways over time.

    Rollo is right that we have to accept the harsh reality of the modern SMP. I know plenty of women in their 20’s that would have been ‘squares’ or ‘good girls’ back in the day, but happened to be born in an era where riding the carousel is common and encouraged. You can spot these women off from a mile away. and it’s very sad imo. Even most ‘shy’ girls you meet have high amount of partners. I was shocked to find out that a friend of my cousin’s has had sex with over 15 men. she barely says a word!!

    You can’t tell the difference anymore, so you have to assume they are all the same for the most part.

  85. Most of them appeared to have gotten married in their early 20s implying that their cheating wives couldn’t have had sky-high N counts. These chaste women hit 30

    i think you’d be surprised/disgusted at the typical n count of today’s early-20’s female. and that’s not even including the things she did in college which ‘didn’t count’.

    ‘i don’t normally do that’
    ‘i was just using those four guys’
    ‘i had a little too much to drink’
    ‘it was a sorority initiation’
    ‘rape!’

    but even if you’re not underestimating the n count, the major contributing factor to these guys getting cheated on is that they got married in their early 20’s. men should not marry in their 20’s. they’ve yet to reach their peak smv while their wives are at theirs – this is the optimal hypergamy window. the poor guy is busting his ass to pay off their student loans and mortgage for their house while his wife is getting butthexed up against the glass ceiling by the ceo of the company she temps with.

    men in their 20’s should be working on themselves and their careers and tearing pussies up to relieve all the stress from that shit.

    When it has come to my dealings with women, common sense approaches have burned me before.

    common sense isn’t about right and wrong, it’s just about what’s commonly agreed upon. as such, it matters whose common sense it is.

    blue pill common sense vs. red pill common sense

    do your research and make an informed decision.

  86. The other day i had a female friend try to shame me for chasing after women that were 7-8 years younger than me.

    and i bet not an insignificant number of those partners she’s had were at least 7-8 years older than her.

    fact is, lots of women have dated substantially older men when they were younger, but will then try to shame a man for dating a younger woman when they themselves are no longer young and desirable. and not see the irony in this.

    older men with younger women = the natural order of things.

    ‘They aren’t quality women, they are just going to use you etc’.

    next time, just go ‘why can’t girls understand that i’m not just a piece of meat?!?! I HAVE A BRAIN TOO!!’ in an exaggerated way.

    women are lucky to have vaginas. it keeps them from getting beatdowns. usually.

  87. Copied from a brilliant man named Afor.

    NAWALT huh?
    Just in case you didn’t know, NAWALT = Not All Women Are Like That.
    This article is being written because I have seen several comments, and heard many men over the years, express confusion over their “bad luck” in attracting a succession of rotten women. “Is it me?” at the milder end of the scale to “What the fuck am I? Some sort of asshole magnet” at the medium end of the scale, to the extreme “It must be my fault for being attracted to the wrong sort of women.”
    So, before we go any further, I want to share with you a nice little piece of graphic art.

    Nice huh? Note the tagline.
    Now, if even the tiniest portion of your brain is suggesting exceptions to the “ALL WOMEN Are FILTHY, LYING WHORES” then you my friend are guilty of NAWALT, and since NAWALT goes hand in hand with self-doubt, you have probably also wondered at some time why YOU manage to attract so many rotten women.
    This is a crucial piece of knowledge for all men.
    NAWALT exists solely to instil self-doubt, and that self-doubt exists solely to cut your balls off, and not call a spade a spade.
    Women have always known that all women are whores, I am 50 years old and I have never heard a woman say “I simply cannot believe that Jane would have sex with my husband!” which is why the man blaming always comes to the fore, women know all women will fuck anything, so pointless to blame Jane, even if she started it, might as well give your husband a double dose.
    If I had a dollar for every woman who has told me “Men haven’t got a clue how evil and nasty women can be.” I could buy an international air ticket.
    I’m 50, I have lost track of how many women I have had sex with, I genuinely do not know, but I have never once chatted a woman up in my life, I don’t know how to because I have never had to, interestingly men will have many varied reactions to this statement, women will just accept it, because women know that women are not the meek and mild passive creature that must be carefully and cunningly stalked and wooed.
    Women will fuck anything, literally, it doesn’t even have to be human… women will fuck animals, vegetables, household items and various oddly shaped bits of plastic and silicone.
    Men won’t. A few men will, but Not All Men Are Like That. NAMALT.
    You see that is why NAWALT is so prevalent, because it is complete unadulterated horseshit, and also because it smothers something that is actually true, NAMALT.
    Not all men are like me.
    But, most men, in fact the vast majority of men who have had sex with more than two women in their entire lives, have come across the filthy, lying whore.
    Not because that particular man is a whore magnet, but because all women really are like that.
    Every time I see a happily married man tell me about how he is happily married with HIS wife and HIS kids all I see is a fucking loser, I’m 50 and I have never yet met one who has had all “his” kids DNA tested for paternity, and trust me, you can’t judge on looks. Even if I do one day meet a man who has had all his kids DNA tested for paternity, that just means his kids are his, it doesn’t mean his wife isn’t a filthy, lying whore.
    She is, trust me, I’ve banged enough of them and then listened to you telling me how lovely and faithful she is, while she looks at me with that secret smile in her eyes at what a fucking clueless loser you are.
    Does this make me a destroyer of marriages and relationships? Does it fuck, you can’t break something that is already broken. Just because YOU don’t know it is broken doesn’t mean it ain’t, it just means you are labouring under a burden of illusions, that NAWALT, and that you, you lucky bastard, won the jackpot and found the one who is not like that… yeah… right… I have some ocean front property in Arizona at a real good price.
    Which brings me back to the original core of this subject, NAWALT, so how come I seem to attract so many who are like that?
    Well, a part of your problem is that all men like to bullshit, yeah, I’ve had her, and by the way I was born on a Harley, never rode a Honda in my life, no Sir… except that isn’t true, this is just bullshit, it’s what men do, particularly young men, and so young men are also susceptible to buying bullshit… yeah, that AfOR guy fucked that Bond girl, and he was born on a Hog and never rode a ricer…. However you will be open to the idea that I might be shitting you.
    But the biggest part of your problem is you buy the NAWALT thing implicitly, and in doing so you stop using your brain, and so you do not realise that NAWALT exists only to instil self-doubt in you, and to distract you from the facts.
    Here is the truth.
    I have fucked a lot of ugly women, sure, some of them were drop dead gorgeous, but I have fucked a lot of fuglies, “any old port in a storm, any old hole” is my motto. But generally speaking I will talk about the good looking ones.
    I have also fucked a lot of seriously fucked up women, because All Women Are Like That, so in the spirit of camaraderie, let me share some of these with you, and ask yourself, seriously, what are the chances that one man, no matter how perverse nature was, could be this “unlucky”?
    He couldn’t, it simply is not possible, the only possible, logical, rational explanation is that the basis for all this confusion, heartache and self-doubt, NAWALT, is a crock of shit.
    By the way, this list is not comprehensive; it is just a couple of edited highlights.
    I meet a girl, we fall in love, we decide to get married (I was very young) we get engaged, we are discussing open-ness and honesty in our future relationship and she lets it slip out that there is only one thing she can never tell me, of course this is a red rag to a bull, so we dig a little deeper and the tears start to flow and she says that yeas, I am her fourth, but number three was made up, it was actually someone else, more tears and sobs, oh boo hoo poor me feel sorry for me (this is AFTER my Word as a promise of marriage has been extracted from me eh) well actually number three (and we are talking sexual partners here) was her biological father….. puke.
    The same girl as above, who desperately tried to make me think that this was a one off, and she didn’t instigate it… well I confronted the guy, made sure she was there too, guess what he says, “she took her own clothes off” and THEN it turns out that this wasn’t a one off, this was a week-long consensual “affair”… puke
    The women who pleaded with me to stay with her after a week, who then offered me her 11 year old daughter if I would stay with her…. I worried about that one for a long time.
    The woman who begged me to fuck her because she wanted a baby by me and not her husband, who then told me what the fuck, none of the other three kids are his either, but he doesn’t know it…
    The woman who I married later in life for a short period (yeah I know, asshole) who was banging the guy from up the hill, and the guy from 6 doors down, an alcoholic who her 17 year old daughter was living with and banging.
    All the girls in holiday hotels who wanted me to fuck them on one bed while their boyfriend was passed out with booze on the next bed, lot of these were honeymooners.
    The woman and her daughter who were both quite happy to fuck me for seven years but one day decided that their easiest way out of this triangle, while hopefully retaining the assets (tough luck there bitches) was to make a joint False Rape Accusation against me.
    I could go on, and on, and on…
    I’m not even going anywhere near the accumulated knowledge, such as the fact that I can count on one hand the number of women who said “I’m not into that.” When I suggested something kinky, two who wouldn’t do anal, one who didn’t want me to take pictures, and one who didn’t want to be tied up, versus all the rest who reacted with manic enthusiasm, versus the possibly three figure number who were just too kinky for me… no, I do not want you to have me stick needles through your nipples, I do not want to cut you, asphyxiate you, beat you until your bones break, or sit on your face and shit directly into your mouth…
    NAWALT huh?
    What are the chances that I, and every other man out there who has met a filthy, lying whore, have somehoe been targeted by the statistical anomalies, the outliers, the “1 in a 1,000” that would be necessary if indeed NAWALT?
    What are the prospects for women if they can convince us that NAWALT, and load us up with self-doubt and guilt, versus being like me, fuck yeah, all women are like that, and that gives you nothing to offer to me, bitches, but the use of your body, for free, no strings attached, prettied up for the wimmins with a label like “fuck buddy” or “friends with benefits” when the reality is pump and dump, fuck pig, gratis whore, or, more accurately, more succinctly, more descriptively, a woman.
    All women are filthy, lying whores.
    No exceptions, not even your mum, daughter, sister, wife, they are all someone else’s filthy lying whore.

  88. This probably won’t be a popular comment, but if you want to find an older, quality woman, a divorced woman who has a legitimate reason for divorce (by “legitimate” I mean church sanctioned) who has not gone on a sex spree since the divorce is a good option. This kind of woman would have the traditional mindset you are looking for, but is being overlooked due to the stigma of divorce. Again, my comment is for niche seekers, not the general audience. Overall, find out about a woman’s past.

    Thanks for the links, Rollo. Awesome comments everywhere!

  89. @David: If it was true that women would have sex with anything, there would be less shootings, less rapes and less suicides. That’s only true for men. There are plenty of warthogs out here with bfs, husbands and/or kids.

    There wouldn’t be a ‘manosphere’ if women were indiscriminate in who they had sex with,

  90. This is a really important essay. I like the writing: Rollo doesn’t say all women are this or that, but there is a large population out there that is labeled quality, when indeed they aren’t. If all women were trash, Rollo wouldn’t have gotten married, most of us wouldn’t date at all. I see this article as saying be careful of what you consider quality and as always, be aware of the world and what’s going on in it. Take it from a reformed AFC, this stuff is very important.

    I just read an article on suicides in my state, the latest and most prominent one was a military guy who shot and killed himself because he couldn’t cope with his divorce. Just guessing, but the woman probably wasn’t “quality” and certainly not ending his life over.

    I’m glad people are reading this blog and listening up: This is extremely important stuff, guys.

  91. There appears to be a lot of unnecessary negativity in these comments.

    Some important points….

    -Women do start off as virgins, so yes it is capable to get one before they became sluts, That means hitting on 18 year olds. Sure less than half will be virgins (maybe even only 20% or so), but they still exist.
    -Recognizing the SMP as it is today does not mean that you have to play by the traditional rules. I think there is a strong presupposition towards this end and it is completely unnecessary.
    -Yes, the modern SMP is a pain for conservative men, but that doesn’t mean one just gives up and sacrifices their standards. Adapt to get the most you can. Finding women that haven’t been pummeled by c0cks is possible, despite the defeatist attitude.

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