The Slut Paradox

Every man wants a slut, he just wants her to be HIS slut.

ANDREW DICE CLAY: Hey, is that your chick there?

GUY IN THE AUDIENCE: Yeah!

DICE: Damn she’s pretty hot!

GUY: Yeah,..

DICE: You been together a while?

GUY: About 6 months.

DICE: Nice. She faithful to you?

GUY: Oh yeah.

DICE: She good in bed?

GUY: *nods head enthusiastically*

DICE: She suck a good dick?

GUY: (laughing) Ohhh yeah,..heheh,..

DICE: I suppose the next question would be, “How do you suppose she got that way?”

If you had an idealized Quality Woman girlfriend who was smoking hot, well adjusted mentally, loyal, would make a good mother, came from a good family, etc. etc., but would only ever begrudgingly have sex with you, in missionary position only, never consider giving you head, and only once a month (in 13 minute increments) because she’d been conditioned to believe that sex was immoral and she didn’t want to be thought of as a slut, would you marry her?

This is the Slut Paradox that vexes contemporary man; what number of prior lovers can a woman have that would be acceptable for you? Seven? Five? How many hobby horses should there be on the cock carousel before a woman is a slut? Don’t bother answering this, because for your average (beta) man, the number – even if you could get full disclosure – is irrelevant to him.

You see, thanks to the pre-existing social infrastructure that the feminine imperative has established, the average man can’t believe his luck when he finally does become sexual with a woman – whether it’s his first time or it’s the hundredth with his wife. So high is her pedestal that it’s literally a twist of fate. The gods have smiled upon him with the sexual favors of a woman, and his good fortune is made all the better when his lover already knows how to perfectly suck his cock just like the women in all the porn he’s watched since he as twelve. No questions are asked – you don’t qualify a gift from the gods, you just accept it.

The Slut Paradox is a very complex issue because it wraps up so much social, emotional and biological importance and details. I’m using the ‘average’ man here as a starting point because he’s the social majority; he’s the benchmark for how both genders approach the paradox, because it’s his discretion to give a woman’s sexual past any kind of gravity. For as much as women will bleat on about “slut status” and double standards, it really all comes down to how the average – in this case beta – male contends with (or doesn’t) a woman’s sexual past. As enlightened Game-aware Men we’re largely exceptions to this rule, or at least blamefully aware of the mechanics of it.

In the initial attraction and arousal stages of a sexual pairing, the average guy doesn’t care about a woman’s prior sex life. It’s only after that pairing becomes solidified that it becomes a consideration.

Unless a woman is a porn actress, I don’t think it’s the number of guys that bothers Men; and I don’t even think it’s the details of how many dicks she’s had. What’s bugs men is that they want to possess her. Men want her genuine desire, but know other guys have had it already and moved on – and they’re cool with it, and she’s cool with it, but he’s not because he wants to own her. He wants to know that he’s getting the best of what she has to offer sexually and emotionally. He wants to know that HE’S the guy who brings out the slut in her that no other guy has experienced fully.

This is the root of paradox issue. The average guy is playing by the feminine imperative’s stated rule set. He wants monogamy, he had to work at it. He had to negotiate with her for what she willingly, genuinely, desired to do with 5 other guys (assuming she’s honest). And on some level, he knows her desire for him is compromised because he had to plead his case with her so she’d warm up to him. Only now that he’s gotten what he’s idealized for so long he realizes other’s have had it before him without anything that comes even close what he invested to get.

Alpha Widows

Now before I get run up the flagpole here, I’m completely aware of the studies indicating a woman’s capacity to bond monogamously is inversely proportionate to the number of sexual partners she’s experienced prior to monogamy. I wont argue the merit of that concept, but I also don’t think that it fully encompasses the dynamic. I say this because, as Katy Perry so adequately illustrated recently, even ONE prior lover (or even unrequited obsession) can be Alpha enough to upset that bonded monogamous balance. These are the Alpha Widows – women so significantly impacted by a former Alpha (or perceptually so) lover that she’s left with an emotional imprint that even the most dutiful, loving beta-provider can never compete with. A woman doesn’t have to have been an archetypal slut in order to have difficulty in pair bonded monogamy.

So again I’ll ask, how many is too many? For an Alpha Widow, one’s enough. It’s my contention that the Slut Paradox isn’t a numbers game so much as it’s an Alpha impact game. What if your new partner has only banged a mere 2 men before you, but engaged in intense sexual experiences she feels self-conscious about doing with you? Is she a slut?

As a final thought, I should add that women have long been aware of the utility that the Slut Paradox represents in maintaining primacy for their sexual strategy. I elaborated on this in the The Tool of ASD,


67 responses to “The Slut Paradox

  • A.B. Dada

    This is a constant topic of discussions in my inner circle — practically every time the guys get together for a night of Scotch and cigars, someone brings up the question of “I wish my girl was sluttier” or “I hate that my girl used to be such a slut.”

    To me, there is no paradox. I have had subconscious rules all of my life, and the few times I violated those rules, I was hurt emotionally or financially (see: my ex-marriage).

    1. I don’t pick up women in bars, ever. I meet women in bars, and their ability to stay in my life (I LJBF them during the first “date”) is how hot they are, and what the social proof value is,

    2. I don’t fuck a gal the first few times if either of us is drunk. Typically, if a gal gets drunk before we have sex, she fails the boner test almost instantly, taking herself out of the running,

    3. Most of the gals I date long term don’t own TVs — this has nothing to do with me choosing dames like that, it just seems to make more attractive women,

    4. If I see a gal on Facebook posting photos of herself getting plowed or doing something anti-feminine, she’s bounced. Can’t get that image out of my head, and it has zero to do with jealousy,

    5. Urban women are more and more becoming only one night stand worthy, fuck buddy status at best,

    6. Women who have no money and can never make rent tend to be the ones who need to “fill the hole” in their financial lives with vulture cock on weekends,

    7. Women with low self esteem (harsh bangs across their forehead is an easy sign) don’t make it past the “here’s my number, Dada” stage.

    I’ve always been this way. I’ve been on hundreds of “first dates” with women, and if they fit into any of these 7 categories (or worse, more than one), my subconscious causes them to fail the boner test.

    I’m surprised that more guys aren’t programmed with these inner tests. I wonder how much of it has to do with guys being indoctrinated by Hollywood into “what is good in a woman”? I am not a TV viewer, I rarely watch movies, and I have no preconceived indoctrination about what makes a woman worth keeping around for more than a ONS.

    My women never tell me “No, I won’t do that in bed because I tried it before and I hated it.” Ever. My women understand that if I am spending the night, it’s because they’re taking care of me emotionally AND sexually (and cooking for me, as well). If I spend the night with a woman and she doesn’t do some of these things, *there is no second chance*. I tell her, politely, the next time she texts or rings me: “Hey, you’re a good gal, but you’re not what I need in my life.” End of story. Let her learn for the next guy. My women don’t go out to bars (ever?) except maybe with coworkers once in a blue moon. They have female friends who have good lives, not ruinous ones. They have good jobs but not great ones. They don’t have credit card debt.

    The list goes on and on — but why is it so fucking hard to see that “great” women exist, and they’re ready to be molded into even “greater” women by a guy who treats them the way a man should treat a woman?

  • Samuel

    Only Alphas can “own” women.

    For me, its not about how many men she has been with, but how many Alphas have owned her.

    Even then I am not threatened, because I know my ownership is excellent and strong enough to supplant prior Alphas.

    However, if a woman does not exhibit any elements of self-control in her behavior, I will not make the investment required to “own” her because I am not buying. This is because she is not to be owned, and will scorn or cuckold any who would try.

  • A Paradox and Pining Away « Hidden Leaves

    [...] any case, Rollo Tomassi teases out some nuance with his latest. An excerpt: If you had an idealized Quality Woman girlfriend who was smoking hot, well adjusted mentally, [...]

  • Fake PUA Meme

    Your comments follow a formula.

    Exaggerate the degree to which you already do what the game-post talks about.

    “This is a constant topic of discussions in my inner circle — practically every time the guys get together…”

    Pluralize singular experiences, and draw sweeping generalizations from them.

    “Most of the gals I date long term don’t own TVs…” (You really expect us to believe a significant sample size of American women don’t own televisions……….) “They don’t have credit card debt.” (What? Maybe one or two girls, but there’s no way you can say this about every girl you’re with……..)

    Then draw up your arbitrary, random rules which really don’t apply to game. “I don’t pick up women in bars, ever.” How is this relevant to those of us who don’t find success in bars to be challenging? Your attempted brand of game doesn’t work, isn’t relevant and most likely isn’t based on a history of repeated success. Game is universal, remember? Yours is not. My guess is a handful of successes with mediocre SMV women. Adding little value to the conversation isn’t as big a crime as being a fraud, but I do think this is symptomatic of some larger neurotic issues you have, which supports my claim here that you are a pathological liar.

    No one else on these sites talks about himself as much you do with such painfully obvious signs that what you say is BS. Normally I could care less, but your lies that you receive hundreds of emails from guys asking for game help, your attempt at a game blog.. you clearly have ambitions and someone needs to call attention to this since you’ve decided to be a fixture at the end of every blog post.

  • A.B. Dada

    Take it as you do. All the sites I visit and comment on, I recommend to real life people who can vouch for me, but I usually request they don’t.

    Since I consider myself the sort of guy who has reached a point in my life where I can help others, I share my anecdotal stories. It’s up to each individual to take online advice with a grain of salt, but my offer to people online is always the same:

    if you visit a town I happen to be in (and I generally post where I am at, year long), meet me for a Scotch whisky and we’ll see who the other person really is. Since I’ve met quiet a few people in the last 3 years that found me via the manosphere blogs, I’ll let my reputation stand only for those who take the time to meet up.

    For everyone else, hide behind your pseudonyms, and be judged by no one. Or do what Rollo here does (and I’m fairly certain he doesn’t exactly try to hide his real name too hard), and share your stories. Which one are you following?

  • Snoeperd

    Lol I’m suprised but according to this post i dont qualify as beta. lolol

  • Flahute

    If more than one alpha has “owned” her, she’s a slut.

  • Danger

    I consider slut and former alpha lovers as mutually exclusive. Both bring their own set of problems.

    Sluts: Mostly measured by the number of c0cks they’ve ridden. Red flag due to many partners and inability to pair-bond effectively. Also a red flagdue to inability to keep legs closed regardless of the quality of man vying for entry to the slit.

    Several former Alpha lovers: While not a slut, still poses a few problems….
    1. She is alpha attractant, your game had better be tight.
    2. Increased chance of cuckoldry due to alpha attractant.
    3. Increased chance of her “being bored” and divorcing you to seek the media crazed cougar lifestyle where she can relive her glory days.

    Obviously the ideal situation is to be the guy taking her virginity, while still keeping reasonably tight game and staying fit.

    With that not being too likely, the best you can do is hope you didn’t get oone of the above and do your best to filter.

  • (r)Evoluzione

    AB, take credit in the fact that you have an anonymous troll. It’s street cred on teh interwebz. No haters = not doing it right.

  • Co

    I’m really glad you posted this bc i could really use some insight from someone who is married. I’ve really grown from your articles bc you are much more balanced and rational in your approach than other bloggers. I grew up as an idealistic beta in a super evangelical home, and as such I had a lot of skewed ideas about sex–not that it was evil, but just that it shouldn’t be engaged in casually. I lost my faith a few years ago about the same time I started learning game. It was very distressing trying to reconcile two world views that can’t really merge. I’m in college now, and I’ve internalized game principles very well, but I still feel deeply distraught at casual sex. I have sex with girls and then feel upset not bc i feel guilty but bc I think that one day I’ll want to get married, and there have been guys like me pump and dumping my future wife. She may tell me she only had five partners, but why the hell would she tell me the truth anyway. I may be more alpha now and know how to handle women, but the real heart of the issue is that I’m not the only guy that can do that–there are plenty of other guys who can push the same buttons on this girl as I can. You’re right, I want to own her, but I feel like I can’t given this fact.

    Maybe there truly are guys who don’t give a fuck and just want to cat around into there sixties and just want free sex, but I truly don’t. I’d rather have solid relationships.

    I’m putting myself out there right now bc I truly want to resolve some of my inner demons. Game has greatly helped my life, but it leads to some truly heart wrenching discoveries. As a married man, what factored into how you chose your wife; how do you balance the cynicism of game blog world views and living a fulfilling life; and is there any practical things I can do to stop obsessing over past guys a girl has been with?

    –Co

  • Fake PUA Meme

    In the same way you claim to disqualify girls for superficial behavior, men too should nix other men from their lives for serious character flaws.

    I don’t do this very often, but I’ve learned it is always right to cut liars from my life. A lack of respect for this kind of person is not punitive- it is natural.

    If others choose to ignore the overwhelming evidence that you are a liar- that you lie repeatedly, often and not that well, then it demonstrates a lack of character or, at best, a lack of experience with deceptive people.

  • A.B. Dada

    There’s no purpose is defending one’s reputation to people one meets in real life and doesn’t know.

    There’s even less purpose in giving any sort of reputation defense to some anonymous coward on a blog comments site.

    My name’s out here for one to vet — it’s very easy to criticize others when you can’t be critiqued yourself.

    Of course, being myself under my real name has allowed me to expand my group of friends, and my business empire. That’s what reputation is: not being afraid of what you say, and finding like minded individuals to join in your circle who respect it and you.

  • Fake PUA Meme

    Again, exaggeration and lies.

    There is no business empire. You brag on your website about your investments: http://www.ventureancap.com/seeds-funded/the-doublespeak-dictionary-by-leslie-starr-ohara/#more-51

    $600 in http://www.thedoublespeakdictionary.com is not a serious business investment.
    $750 in Amagi Bar & Grille is not a business empire.

    Even if these are just drops in a bucket, what kind of serious business person promotes such low level activity? There is a total disconnect between your reality and how you talk about yourself.

    You push the same simplistic lying self-descriptions over and over, and they are always so easy to disprove. You’re a wanna-be shameless self-promoter. That is your game- you should write about it since it is a valid game tactic, and build a following through authenticity. Yes, this works on some people. I guess that’s your goal.

    In my opinion your hosts have been far too gracious to allow you to abuse the communities they have built.

  • A.B. Dada

    They’ve been hitting my Facebook wall and pages crazy style. I just told my assistant to log in as me and delete that shit, but maybe I should keep it up there for true street cred, ha.

    A girl I’m seeing found some shit I wrote on the web in 1991 — the year she was born. It was goofy beta shit about car stereos and MiniDisc players, but it was cred nonetheless. Trolls just make me feel more powerful, I wish them on all the best writers and commenters.

  • NMH

    This was absolutely brilliant, Rollo. If you have more to say, lets hear it.

    Sluttiness bothers me some but its when they have physical evidence of this (genital herpes; ie, a woman has it, a man does not) that makes it rough to deal with. Most women cant possibly understand that her SMV drops due to herpes if she is a strong snowflaker, making it a minefield of an issue.

  • AlphaWhiskey

    “It’s my contention that the Slut Paradox isn’t a numbers game so much as it’s an Alpha impact game.”

    Bingo. My last LTR was a HB8.5 that ran through a string of betas (including a husband) for most of her life. I had to drop her as she wanted to return to religion, and thus marriage and kids and the like, asap. She was very intelligent as well and I think I was the first person that was ever able to dominate her intellectually. Anyway, here it is 4-5 months later and I’m still getting texts from her randomly that she cries over me every day and never wants to fall in love again, etc, etc.

    I feel extremely sorry for whatever beta who falls all over himself to marry her, I guarantee she will not be thinking of him when she’s getting it from behind.

  • jack

    You are correct – alpha impact is the real issue.

    The number of previous lovers is, in effect, a coefficient that predicts the likelihood of alpha impact.

    Women almost NEVER make the “mistake” of having sex with a good man who is not alpha enough.

    Most women, especially those who are just having “a little fun” will screen for alpha, at the expense of character.

    Although:

    Perhaps a “relatively chaste” girl with only one or two previous lovers may have a higher chance of alpha impact, since only two men made it through her screening process. This explains the religious Christian hottie who eventually gives it up for a bad boy. She may be the example of a girl who has ONLY had alpha impact.

    A girl with several long-term relationships may have had the least alpha impact because her screening criteria is more realistic-LTR based.

    The high-number slut may actually be a little more ground down and less enthralled with alpha males.

    The critical element in all of these discussions is that in out current culture, inter-female competition is nearly entirely based on getting a high-status male and getting all the material goods that define social success in whatever sub-culture the woman belongs to.

    In previous eras, inter-female competition was based on more than those two factors. Being a good wife and mother was something that women policed against each other.

    High-status men and material goods were important, but for many women, these things only counted if they were attained within the boundaries of acceptable behavior.

    Now, there are not boundaries to what is acceptable, and women are free to use whatever tactics they see fit. Truly, they have gone feral.

  • Doug1

    Rollo–

    As I said over at Susan’s HUS, I think it’s both alpha impact, if she has more than a ONS but real love fling with one, and/or numbers. Either will ruin most girls’ ability/tendency to deeply bond with a subsequent greater beta.

    Either might also ruin most girls’ ability/tendency to deeply bond with an alpha, if he isn’t easily the most standout alpha she’s ever had extended periods of sex with.

  • caRIOca

    Bingo again! One alpha causes much more damage than a platoon of betas. A 40 beta cocks experienced girl heart’s have 40 erasable names, while a single alpha cock leaves a perpetual tattoo.

    If you are alpha and fuck a 40 beta-cocked chick, she will believe that you are the greatest on Earth, due her statistical authority on the subject of men.

    In this POV, being perceived as alpha by a high-number slut (male issues authority) may offer a unique pleasure for our narcissistic egos.

    Ps. I’m fucking a 40 cock young girl. Yeah, this huge number is real! And I was very bothered by this fact, until I read this article.

    Thanks again, Rollo. You’re inspirational. If you have more to say about this issue, let us read it.

  • Dr. Sado

    I understand why you are divorced, darling.

  • jynxi

    Gentlemen, I believe the number count is extremely important as it goes to the woman’s character and integrity. Remember, this is the woman whom you may want to raise your children some day. A woman who’s had maybe 5 LTR’s during her quest to seek out a suitable mate is not the same woman who’s had 25 ONS’s and counting. The later is usually a mentally unstable and self-destructive hussy. Of course always beaming with a bright sunny smile to cover the soulless rotten innards. The coping remedy of choice is usually their drug of choice as life is not a something-for-nothing deal. Try as we might but sex and love are not to be trifled with so casually. It’s not like getting a glass of water. If it was, we wouldn’t be having these conversations. Nobody would care about who did what with whom and how many times. It just a glass of water, right? A good woman is not so casual about her mating strategy. She simply want’s a good husband and family. She might have an error in judgement while she navigates the husband-to-be marketplace but it is her sincerity that makes all the difference. Cock gobblers feign sincerity in their vain attempt to have-it-all like the repulsive ball-hogs they are. Sooner or later the rotten innards come spilling out and the wreckage spares no one. Women are not men. Most of them are not designed for a carousel-of-cock-gobbling. If they were, they wouldn’t need the alcohol and there would be no tears or painful regrets. Tears are a sign that heart and soul are doing something terribly wrong. It doesn’t matter what they say in the commercial, they are just trying to sell a feel-good product called “Sluts-R-Us”. Sluts, like manure and public toilets serve a purpose but I don’t want them in my house. There is a time and a place for everything but at no time can you have-it-all.

  • Brian

    If taking the red pill of starting to learn about game begins to open the eyes of some men to gradually see the true nature of reality (that most people including basically all women are Predictably Irrational “Nucking Futs” head cases), then why are many game blogs (a bunch of whom bang sluts then turn around and try to shame sluts) and the moralistic mass-media currently increasing their self-righteous assult against women sluts and alpha males as being the ones who should be suppressed? Probably because the majority are feminized/beta. I don’t have problems with sluts (female or male). PUA’s and most bloggers (that say they have been with X number of sluts) might have their own version of a beta-biological clock and as they get older this paradox tick-tocks in their heads as they think more about having kids and settling down and they have male PMS and call others names (they now are dellusional and call women sluts as they look for a pure HQ One-itis to have their holier than thou PUA-kids), it seems with their cognitization of game they would better comprehend reality. Out of about the top 20 “mainstream” game blogs (maybe around 3 of them are hard-core Alpha men such as, the new Rollo and G). Especially, with the media controlled by betas, no matter how much a beta may try to be more alpha, it appears in the nexus of this game rabbit hole that there is a point that most men being internally beta will never get past (not that it’s a bad thing for civilization), and that point is being authentically Alpha, and this is through an inner door to a land where there is only a few men who are hard-core Alpha. A genuine Alpha man is not going to beta-man-b*tch about sluts or what time soccer is because he doesn’t give a F*ck because he is too busy going out into the world slaying dragons, fighting, building, f*cking, and winning. Rationalmale is probably currently in the top 2 Game blogs because Rollo is more logical and level headed with Game issues and thus may live in or close to Alpha Land. The fem-world beta media is still fixated on bad-boy Jesse James and good-girl Sandra Bullock, but I may have heard her say years before Jesse that she loved the bad-boy Alpha c*ock, but the beta-media can’t say this reality. Or a woman with 5 kids who gets a divorce is once again a fantasy of purity v*rgin who now gets off on telling beta men to never even look at her s*xually and to buy her stuff. Most married men (especially with kids), most married bloggers (especially with kids), most media (many of them have kids), most women (they basically are like kids), and most men (because they are beta plus they want to have kids but they are not quite sure where kids are from yet), will never resolve this slut paradox. I could say a few possibilities of what this world might be like in the next 100 years, but I don’t want to give the nut jobs any further suggestions, fortunately I won’t be here. If I was able to look on from the Land of Alpha Men, I would say the same thing as now, “Most of them are F*cking Nuts.”

  • Good Luck Chuck

    The thing that bothers me about some of these comments is the attitude of acceptance that I am hearing regarding the sexual habits of women.

    Fact of the matter is that just about any chick who has ridden the carousel is damaged goods. I know, I know, that’s basically ALL women these days. You have grown up being forced to accept it, but that doesn’t mean that it’s right or healthy.

    Doesn’t matter if the cocks were “alpha” or not…..the more dick she’s had the less value she is able to place on any one man.

  • Brian

    To answer the question of would I marry a woman who did not enthusiastically want to and enjoy having s*x ? No. Years ago beta-society would have told me to sacrifice myself and be miserable. I have decided to never get married. I prioritize myself (cover your eyes any beta-readers of a Game blog), I value s*xuality (not to type complete words so any beta-commenters go into a tizzy), if she does not want to with me then I don’t want to be with her and I would just move onto the next woman who does. I like the picture, the only problem I have with it is her sort hair, so I would say what happened to your hair, take her water and drink it, say you never said we had a kid – what’s his name, all while the fem-media/other jealous women/and beta-men call her a slut, I don’t care what any of them say (to them slut bad, to me slut good), now go watch some re-runs of old beta tv shows. Do you ever eat off of a fork that more people have eaten off of than any number of rides a woman you are with has ever taken, surely you have. There is not nor ever will be a completely pure human being in reality. We are all dirty, even the water and air is not completely clean in reality. I would have said other things that I would say to her, but even on a Game blog other beta-commenters would have a sissy-fit (even though they probably are not very fit themselves). I don’t bring others down. I don’t live the lives of other people or be judgmental towards them, I’m extremely busy living my own life, so I also won’t be reading comments or commenting anymore but will continue to read Game blog posts. I have a positive attitude and I can accept reality. It’s probably better to: Don’t ask/Don’t tell. I will make no further comments.

  • caRIOca

    The slut paradox is a red pill hard to swallow. We, the alpha wannabes, will fight with our white knights swords to defend the “pure HQ One-itis”, which is one of the most resistant beta fairy tale myths.
    “A genuine Alpha man is not going to beta-man-b*tch about sluts.” Overcome this beta weakness is a challenge for me.

    Great comment, it could be a blog post.

    Ps. Who’s “G”?

  • caRIOca

    Betas, be shocked! This is the most alpha comment ever.

    “Do you ever eat off of a fork that more people have eaten off of than any number of rides a woman you are with has ever taken, surely you have. There is not nor ever will be a completely pure human being in reality.”

    “I have a positive attitude and I can accept reality. It’s probably better to: Don’t ask/Don’t tell.”

    I’ll take it to life.

  • Good Luck Chuck

    I also adopt the Don’t Ask Don’t Tell policy but that is only because women have too much incentive to lie about their sexual past. For casual sex I could care less how many men she’s fucked, but if I am going to invest time in a relationship you better believe I am making judgments based upon clues about her sexual past.

    Ignoring a woman’s sexual past doesn’t make you any more “alpha”. There is a reason why men have evolved to sniff out slut clues and are turned off by women who display them, and finding the ability to rise above that might increase your pool of prospects, but it also increases the likelihood of you getting cheated on or even worse getting stuck raising another man’s kid.

    And that sounds pretty beta if you ask me.

  • J.M

    “Ignoring a woman’s sexual past doesn’t make you any more “alpha”. There is a reason why men have evolved to sniff out slut clues and are turned off by women who display them, and finding the ability to rise above that might increase your pool of prospects, but it also increases the likelihood of you getting cheated on or even worse getting stuck raising another man’s kid.”

    Thank you Chuck finally some manly advice and commentary. Other commenters think they are überalpha but they sound like feminists beta cuckolds straight from the Radical sociology classroom with their “non-judgemental” vision of women lol. I also bang “loose” women. The difference is that I don´t call them later. There is a reason why the West outdid earlier civilizations and it was not because we had bagels or sauerkrauts. Hell your own great grandparents would have deemed you pussies for such sackless statements.

  • Brian

    Good evening JM. That was kind to agree with someones commentary. One thing I will mention because above I said I am not judgmental is that I was brought up with strict religion and it ruined my youth, so I am now more easy-going to myself and others. I have never been, am not, nor ever will be married, so I never had and do not have a wife or even a girlfriend to cheat on me, and I have no children, and I do not financially support ANY child especially another mans, so that would be a false accusation as I have never been cuckolded. I did go to a top univeristy, but I have never been in a sociology classroom (let alone a radical classroom), heck I have never even read a sociology textbook/book/or specifically sociology site (unless you include a few sites like this). I’m not a feminist. It should be obvious, but I will say it anyway that I am not a beta. I’m a man so yes I do think about women and sex many times a day, women have been and are sexually attracted to me, I game and bang women, and I too know from learning game to not talk on the phone with women for more than a few minutes. I am more masculine and physically stronger than any of my prior male relatives. Therefore, if this comment was directed at me, I won’t judge you for being incorrect, that’s why I just cleared this up. As for calling me (or someone else) uber-alpha, that is correct, thanks for the compliment I appreciate it. Now it’s time to go enjoy the rest the day.

  • J.M

    @Brian
    Hahaha, not directed at anyone specifically but if you think it´s with you, be my guest.

  • Brian

    @ JM
    Alright. Just in case it was (not that I care anyways or ever take comments on any blog personally). I was a guest last night and that was enough, now it’s time to move on. Good luck. Peace out.

  • Brian

    Thanks caRIOca.
    The G (International Playboy) is thegmanifesto blog. Everyone has their own unique style. I’ve also read comments by G on other blogs and I have liked how he is encouraging to other up and coming G’s.
    You’re going right. Stay strong and keep having fun caRIOca.

  • Mike

    I’m starting to feel pretty good for doing all my gaming and then marrying a virgin, whom I’m turning into a slut. Full possession, and no worries.

    As for to many, I think it is the question of alpha full on. I’ve been with women who where with a string of betas prior.

    But I was once with a woman who had just been in a full blow gang session with 5 marines at once. Consider that chick forever ruined.

  • Jean-Luc LeGame

    This reminds me of an ex-girlfriend. She complained a ton about her ex when we first got together, and I’m pretty certain she cheated on me with him while we were together, then after I broke up with her she got back with him.

    Beware of any girl that complains a lot about an ex-boyfriend when you first get together. It means 1)he treated her badly or with indifference, which could indicate alpha, and 2) it means she’s still thinking about him.

    In the early days of the relationship, she should be completely enamored by YOU and not at all thinking about an ex.

  • xsplat

    In the early days of the relationship, she should be completely enamored by YOU and not at all thinking about an ex.

    Ideally, I suppose. But it’s no sign of disrespect if you don’t immediately eclipse her past. It’s going to happen that a girl is still crushing on a guy when you first start fucking her. It’s going to happen again and again, because it’s a common state of affairs for women. Don’t sweat it. After a few weeks or a month she’ll have had some time to bond to you. If that bonding doesn’t happen, then you can re-evaluate. You can’t expect a blank and ready slate, all clean for you.

  • Pseudo-Virginity «

    [...] a woman being as close to pseudo-virginity as is socially manageable. I touched on this briefly in The Slut Paradox, and I do understand the evolved psychology behind [...]

  • Coquetry «

    [...] The only gender concerned with being perceived as a slut is women. Once again, feminine primacy. Every man loves a slut, he just wants her to be HIS slut. The importance is less about his perception of her being a slut [...]

  • T. All.

    What bothers me about most of these comments is that they cling on to the same archaic, possessive fantasies and reactionary structures.

    Isn’t this issue just a social construct that’s overrun by petty misogynists and property-obsessed?

    Frankly. I’m sick of the whole “she’s a slut if she has x dicks, likes xx…” etc.. There’s just no balance or logic to it. That whole ‘game’ seems to be centered around discouraging and excluding non-alphas from getting sexually pleasured or rewarded. Securing the gold and honnies for the dominant male alone. Bullshit.

    I really don’t bother following that so-called game altogether (even though it’s said it’s ‘universal’). As long as there’s no practical problem
    I fancy dirty-minded, naughty females (sluts, whores, whatever) a lot more than regular, ‘precious’ or in some cases out right prudish and arrogant females. Some regulars can be sweet, caring, funny, or nice talking to. But when they’re playing hard to get, using facades, and throwing off snobby attitudes, it’s just not exciting at all trying to hunt – because there’s no break through.
    When someone offers an opening, an opportunity, hits on you, it’s a million times easier to be charming and adventorous yourself.
    Else, ‘sluts’ are just more fun and boundary-seeking.

    It might just be easier if you aren’t possesive, but open-minded, to begin with.

  • T. All.

    How on earth would there be any truth to that? Women with a sex life is damaged goods? That’s not a fact, it’s just a silly egoist misogynist notion.
    I don’t recall any studies showing that women get ‘damaged’ by having sex. Quite the contrary, it’s widely stated to be healthy in many aspects. Breeding several childs can be extremely unhealthy though.
    People have got to realize we are billions of people, all with sexual needs, that can’t be sheltered and isolated to just a single, ‘special’ person through their whole life.

  • Sonofanalpha

    My dad owned my mom… Even after diabetes took the sex all away. He alpha -glamored her with his heart.

  • thebloggerssoliloquy

    I like this post man, I’ve always thought about this, but how many guys shes been with before has never really bothered me as long as she’s fully aware that I’m one cool arse motherfucker. Luckily for me though, I became aware of this whole Don Juan thing when I was a young teen, and now, what I’ve found is that as long as you’re enjoying the time you spend with her there’s no point worrying about that stuff. (Although it does make for interesting convo when you’re screening a girl).

    *Just came across this blog when I was looking for a picture of Pook, (not sure if anyone will remember or know who this guy is) who wrote a very good post that I stumbled on years ago.

  • Balancing Sexual Pluralism «

    [...] Security comes in a lot of different forms; financial, emotional, familial, etc. When a woman has established a base line of security for herself in one of these forms, other forms take precedent. So for a woman to make herself (or be by default) more or less financially independent, her impetus will be to find a guy who satisfies that hypergamic need of Alpha dominance and sexual prowess. Thus the hawt guy, with Alpha swagger outclasses the boring beta with equitable wealth to her own. Even a beta of higher socioeconomic status wont stimulate a woman who can comparatively and contextually assess that the Alpha she’s committed to, though lower on a socio-econ level, is still a better hypergamic match because his Alpha impact has left a long term impression on her (i.e a potential Alpha Widow). [...]

  • The.Anonymous.Us3r

    Good Luck Chuck summed up THE fundamental issue rather pithily.

    Doesn’t matter if the cocks were “alpha” or not…..the more dick she’s had the less value she is able to place on any one man.

    Doug1 also reiterates and expounds upon this dilemma.

    As I said over at Susan’s HUS, I think it’s both alpha impact, if she has more than a ONS but real love fling with one, and/or numbers. Either will ruin most girls’ ability/tendency to deeply bond with a subsequent greater beta.

    Either might also ruin most girls’ ability/tendency to deeply bond with an alpha, if he isn’t easily the most standout alpha she’s ever had extended periods of sex with.

    As does Good Luck Chuck (again).

    Ignoring a woman’s sexual past doesn’t make you any more “alpha”. There is a reason why men have evolved to sniff out slut clues and are turned off by women who display them, and finding the ability to rise above that might increase your pool of prospects, but it also increases the likelihood of you getting cheated on or even worse getting stuck raising another man’s kid.

    And that sounds pretty beta if you ask me.

    Another concern no one seems to have mentioned is the increased risk of catching whatever STI an experienced woman, by virtue of her experience, is statisically more likely to carry.

    These are the Alpha Widows – women so significantly impacted by a former Alpha (or perceptually so) lover that she’s left with an emotional imprint that even the most dutiful, loving beta-provider can never compete with. A woman doesn’t have to have been an archetypal slut in order to have difficulty in pair bonded monogamy.

    So again I’ll ask, how many is too many? For an Alpha Widow, one’s enough. It’s my contention that the Slut Paradox isn’t a numbers game so much as it’s an Alpha impact game. What if your new partner has only banged a mere 2 men before you, but engaged in intense sexual experiences she feels self-conscious about doing with you? Is she a slut?

    The phenomena of Alpha Widowhood may be the fundamental problem that guys have to deal with, but I do think the numbers matter for several reasons.

    Before I begin, let me clarify “numbers” because to me this can represent 2 things, both of which you (and others) had touched upon in this very post. 1)The number of men a woman has slept with; 2)The variety of sexual experiences a woman has had with other men (or, really, other people in general).

    Yes, I totally agree, a woman can have been with only one or two guys and be an Alpha Widow or have been with 40 guys and have had only Betas. But given women’s hypergamous strategies, a woman that has been with one Alpha is more likely to have fucked as many subsequent Alphas, because women only (or at least tend to) date up. Right?

    Secondly, because the term Alpha only describes a type of male – i.e., the kind that consistently and reliably elicits sexual desire in women – that makes (as Good Luck Chuck and Doug1 noted) all the other Alpha’s a woman has been with a threat to any future Alphas she might hookup with, never mind Betas, who would be promptly dismissed and forgotten. Could an Alpha paired up with a woman that has dated, say, 5 Alphas, compete? Who the hell knows. And it is that uncertainty that forms the seed of doubt in a man’s mind. I know what some readers might say, “If the guy is really Alpha, he wouldn’t care or he would NEXT her and move on.” But this same problem could come up again and again with other women the Alpha moves on to. Either way, it could adversely effect the woman’s enthusiasm for the current relationship. The kicker is, this Alpha might not know if any woman he’s dating has been marked by other Alphas and still pines for/favors them over him.

    He wants to know that he’s getting the best of what she has to offer sexually and emotionally. He wants to know that HE’S the guy who brings out the slut in her that no other guy has experienced fully.

    I am only speaking for myself here, but my issue with a very experienced woman isn’t how many people she has slept with in and of itself, nor is it my need to own her, per se, rather it is my need for assurance that I am either the best she has had or that she thinks I am the best she has had. At the very least I’d like to know that she truly considers me as good as her favorite prior lovers. I don’t need to be the only guy who has brought “out the slut in her that no other guy has experienced fully.” I only need to be perceived by her as being AS GOOD as her best. This is less about my ego, and more about ensuring her continued loyalty and high level of sexual attraction for me. The more experienced/Alpha-tainted the woman, the more difficult and less likely this becomes.

    The more men a woman has slept with the more jaded she becomes. Especially if she has experimented (e.g., threesomes, anal, bondage). The more she has seen and done, then I become that much less interesting and, following that logic, that much less appealing. This situation is made worse by the fact that women prefer men who display dominant traits, show (sexual) competence, and “just get it” (assuming that this applies to sex in much the same way it applies to Game). Even if a man attempts to take charge and does so with confidence and gusto, how memorable will his cock be versus the 100 other Alphas the girl fucked before he showed up?

    Going back to what I said about the extent of experience (not just number of partners) a girl has had, imagine, just for example, a girl who was willing to do anal with a prior partner, but who now balks at doing it with you. This type of situation is yet another reason a man might take issue with a woman with an extensive resume. Why would she give her ex anal and not you? There are variety of good reasons for this. Maybe she did it once, didn’t enjoy it, and doesn’t care to try it again as a result of her initial experience. But even if a woman stated outright that very reason for turning down anal with you, you can never know for sure whether or not she was lying. Heed what she does not what she says. Right? The medium is the message. She offered anal to another guy, but won’t offer it to you. And so the certainty of her fidelity of both heart (loyalty) and lust (is she settling for/using you?) remains in doubt.

    The funny thing about The Slut Paradox double standard is that women both knowingly and unknowingly perpetuate it.

    Women who sleep around too much are knowingly – albeit not always knowingly – devalued as “sluts” by other women to increase the overall value that women, as a group, can provide in relationships: sex.

    ‘The Female Social Matrix: An Introduction’
    http://theredpillroom.blogspot.com/2012/05/female-social-matrix-introduction.html

    Women unknowingly perpetuate The Slut Paradox double standard by their general preference for dominant men. What better way can men live up to this expectation than by sleeping with many women? Yeah, for some guys sex will come as easily and naturally as breathing. For others, it might take some practice. Men may place a premium on virgins, but no woman wants a virgin. And if a woman takes a virgin, he better damn well not act like one. In other words women devalue virginity in men while men do the opposite with regards to women.

  • guest

    Isnt it more about the relation between a mans SMP value and the value of the men a woman has slept with? If the guy is a 6 and the girl has had 10 men, all of them also 6s, the latest guy is just another 6, easily gotten easily discarded. But if the guy is above that level hes special.

    Then again, its not like this helps betas much as women generally give it up to alphas.

  • Molly

    I mostly like the more masculine guys, but when they move on, I do feel like another slice of my cake has gone.

  • Mr Cabbage

    I don’t understand all of the terminology in the discussion above, but I understand the general points. Personally, I have had the experience in the article – when dating a woman at first, her sexual past is less important. Then, when I have her, it becomes important to know exactly what kind of woman I am with. And I realise that she is not worth staying with, or taking up my time and effort and deserving anything from me, if she has had casual sex with many men in the past. I realise that if she has had casual sex with many men in the past, then it means nothing that I have had managed to have her and be with her, because she will be with anyone. So what’s in it for me? Why stick around? And how on earth can I trust such a girl, if she can easily go to bed with any man? I cannot. The only thing to do is dump her, and try to find a girl who is more wholesome, one who is decent, one who has no background of casual sex. Incidentally I’ve had little casual sex, and don’t feel proud of myself when I have. It does not feel like an achievement. It just feels like the act of sex has been cheapened, devalued.

  • The Soul Mate Myth «

    [...] an outright manipulation, I’d argue that in some ways hypergamy intensifies that neurosis. Alpha Widows know all too well the languishing associated with pining for the Alpha that got away – [...]

  • Taming the Beast «

    [...] for the man her looks, personal conditions and societal influences allowed her to consolidate on (Alpha Widows). Remember, all of this occurs within the framework of the varying personal limitations (or [...]

  • Quality Women |

    [...] This is tough on a guy sold on idealistic notions that his virgin bride is awaiting him somewhere in the world. That may be a bit binary for all but the most white knight of guys, but by order of degree, and with a measured prudence, I think it’s important for men to disabuse themselves of finding the virgin slut, who’ll only be his virgin slut. [...]

  • wordstheymeanthings

    In response to
    A.B. Dada
    January 6th, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    Women never say no to you? Really, are they conscious? Or do you just date women who have no respect for themselves? Dating has one purpose, finding someone who you want to have in your life when both of you grow old, together. Dating a bunch of women just to satisfy your own selfish desires is like test driving a bunch of cars and later taking the bus home alone because you couldn’t make up your mind which one to buy.

    In case you all haven’t noticed that is a grave sign of insecurity. What makes an Alpha male is the woman who knows he will be there with her and for her no matter what they are going through, good or bad. That is what the marriage vows are all about. Bed hopping and slut surfing is a great way to end up old and alone.

    Wake up guys you are not getting any younger.

  • He’s Special |

    […] all this gets interesting is in considering the Alpha Widow […]

  • A Proper Framework for Marriage. | The Society of Phineas

    […] becomes unimportant, so daughters can go off and chase after The Feminist Merit Badge and be on the Slut Carousel with impunity, yet the sons get chided for not manning-up and marrying the sluts. The State institutes divorce […]

  • women are not property, property is theft

    Women are not property that you own. You think your dicks are God’s gift to women to give as widely as possible but at the same time conceptualize the ideal woman as a sexually naive virgin. There is one reason chauvinists prefer inexperienced women: they are easier to control and mistreat. This is for lack of reference point of what constitutes a healthy and happy relationship.
    I bet the men who subscribe to the drivel written here are the kind of men who find rape jokes funny and think a woman’s place is in the kitchen.
    Misogynistic fucks.

  • Sexpert

    “DICE: I suppose the next question would be, “How do you suppose she got that way?”

    Its possible she got that way by practicing on him. Sex is a give and take exchange between loving couples. There’s a learning curve for each individual body. If you think you know what “women like” or “men like” in bed, think again. Every individual body is different. What works for one, might or might not work for another.

    That’s why each couples’ sexual life is unique.

    Rhythm, timing, technique, it all matters and it all differs from one to the next.

    Cunnilingus and fellatio take time, practice and patience.

    A sexual rapport is built over time.

  • MGTOW Presence On My Blog

    […] waiting for my nonverbal signs of granted permission.". Here's what men are saying. You are an alpha widow. To summarize, it's amusing to us that you are comparing the new guy to an alpha who obviously […]

  • Midnight Thoughts

    […] love (oxytocin effect) and resents sex (because her use of it has betrayed her). She is also an alpha widow – the theory that "gina tingles" last a lifetime and even though women were mistreated by […]

  • LittleWolf

    Woo. Christian good girl who was corrupted by abuse, then later an Alpha type, a string of unrequited loves and now happy with a (now ex) virgin Beta. At first he was intimidated by my sexual appetite but is warming to it. I understand his insecurity having been a virgin and all. Still, I won’t roll the red carpet out for just anyone. As desperate as I was to feel wanted, there are still things I have reserved for him. Things I’ve said I will try at least once, that I genuinely would never ever do except for with him which makes him feel more secure. When its the other way around I certainly realise the whole thing about men ‘owning’ women and women not being in charge of her own sexual agency means that the man gives her ‘permission’ to be a slut. He still saw me as virginal and denied wanting me to do slutty things when it soon became clear he did… As we go through the slutty things list it gives him the sense of conquest he never got with other women as well as the opportunity to ‘liberate’ me. Guess I will pander to that ego boost if it means I hate myself less for letting him cum on me, being brutally honest. Give and take.

  • Women Will Never Struggle as Much as a Man | The Reinvention of Man

    […] being strikingly similar, I was to become his replacement for her.  Unfortunately for her, she was all used up by the time her and I met, not only sexually, but emotionally as well which caused me to decide that she was unqualified for any serious investment on my part.  […]

  • Clinton

    Just want a good time

  • Alberto

    Proud to be MGTOW Men !!!! Just me ,my BMW 328i and my German Shepard – my two best friends !! Thank God every day for my wisdom to stay single . Thank you Lord and thank to my awesome Farther mostly . My Dad is amazing guy .Self made rich .
    I never ,never go on a date with my BMW ,not stupid you know . Lots of chicks ,lots .

    Cheers from Torino ,Italy .

  • How a Woman Can “Have It All” | oogenhand

    […] 2 http://therationalmale.com/2012/01/06/the-slut-paradox/ […]

  • Preventative Medicine – Part IV |

    […] written several essays regarding the dynamics of the Alpha Widow, but at no other phase of a woman’s life is she more prone to mourning a prior Alpha lover […]

  • Eric Scott

    “the god’s have smiled upon him with the sexual favors of a woman” ?

    lol who wrote this nonsense. the viewpoint is insanely biased and goes past the point.

  • Tarnished

    “DICE: She suck a good dick?

    GUY: (laughing) Ohhh yeah,..heheh,..

    DICE: I suppose the next question would be, “How do you suppose she got that way?” ”

    I’m perpetually confused by this statement, and others like it. Hoping you can give me some insight, RM.

    Why does it seem that a significant number of men assume that if a woman is good at blowjobs/sex in general, that she must have previously been with a man before?

  • Paulus2014

    Eat pussy is a job for impotent men, beta males (loosers), cuckolds and lesbians (dykes,mainly). Alpha males don´t eat pussy.

  • Tarnished

    Guess it’s a very good thing my lover isn’t an alpha then…lol. If he didn’t give oral sex to me, I wouldn’t do it for him either, but luckily one of our favorite positions is 69ing. I’ll never understand why some people believe giving their partners pleasure is somehow “inferior”. It’s nonsensical.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

Follow

Get every new post delivered to your Inbox.

Join 4,642 other followers

%d bloggers like this: