Services Rendered

Buy a man a whore and you get him laid for an evening. Teach a man Game and you get him laid for a lifetime.

If you aren’t already familiar with the writings of Ferdinand Bardamu, owner / proprietor of In Mala Fide, I’d suggest you take a half an hour or so of your blog reading time to peruse his work. I pay homage to the Man primarily because he’s got an original insight, particular when it comes to observations of intergender dynamics. Today’s offering was the topic Why You Shouldn’t Trust Men Who Can’t Get Laid, and it’s really a brilliant observation that served as a recent springboard for another topic I’ve been asked to cover numerous times – the role of prostitution in intergender relations.

Ferd’s observation was that of what appeared to be a  dweeb relatively socially inept guy getting his hands buffed by a tag team, mother & daughter working a mall kiosk:

My friend pointed at the kiosk outside of FYE, where a dweeby youngish kid was having his hands washed in a sink.

The Israeli mother-daughter duo who ran the kiosk were well-known for the scam they were running — selling massively overpriced soaps and shampoos supposedly containing Dead Sea salt. They used a combination of hard sell techniques, sexual charm and guilt to reel in people and get them to leave with their wallets a little lighter. Watching the busty mom ring up items on the register while her college-aged daughter soaked the dweeb’s hands, visions of incestuous threesomes danced in my head.

It would have been easy to go, “Haha, what a loser, he just got swindled into spending $80 on bath soap.” But looking at the guy, I realized something else. He wasn’t inherently repulsive-looking — messy dark blonde hair, skinny, glasses — but his slumped posture and look of defeat suggested loserdom, of many lonely nights masturbating in the glow of a computer screen. This was probably the first time in eons that a woman touched him or talked to him outside of a professional context. How could he resist? He couldn’t. I felt sorry for him.

The kid at the mall was essentially a ‘John’ for a couple of mother & daughter prostitutes. What was he paying for? Physical contact from a woman. It’s an indictment of the point to which our society has progressed to that women can now sell themselves without actually having to deliver sexual services. So disconnected have men become that even women’s feigned interest and the vaguest passings of kino / touch can be monetized. Women have learned that men will pay to be nice to them.

Strippers know this very well. What mom and daughter were doing here was tapping into providing a need for attention starved men. There are other examples of this, however the operative point is understanding the elemental exchange in the transactions men agree to with women.

The blogger Advocatus Diaboli has written extensively on the subject and his preference for relying on escorts as a means to satisfying is sexual needs. He sums his position up succinctly in the commet thread of Ferd’s article:

That is precisely why using escorts and buying sex is so liberating. The only thing between you and hot ass is whether you can pay or not..

Paying For It

This is a very uncomfortable principle for Game-aware men to confront. I think what a lot of guy’s fail to grasp is AD’s reasoning behind his decision to use escorts. There will undoubtedly be the predictably ingrained responses about him being a core misogynist, he has psychological issues or he was so burned in the past by women that this is his misguided retribution for all of that. I’ve read his blog for over a year now and my opinion is that he’s really being more pragmatic than he is lashing out. The guy impresses me as someone who’s done a lot of critical thinking and came to the conclusion that the solution to his need for sex is just deductive reasoning.

That’s a tough pill to swallow for guy’s invested in the tenets of Game – because it essentially invalidates Game in a practical sense. I’d argue that it doesn’t invalidate Game from a theoretical perspective, but in practice, if you can buy the means to your sexual satisfaction what’s the point of practicing Game?

What I think hits so close to the mark for most guy’s calling him some hapless loser for paying for sex is that they CAN see his logic, but still choose to play by a set of rules they think is morally or socially correct. They still believe in a social contract between men and women that dictates that if they’re not directly paying a hooker for services rendered, they’re not technically paying for sex. It’s scary for them to see the cold facts in light of investing themselves in the hope that women will love and understand them in ways they think they can or should. They’ll recoil from the discomfort of confronting this by calling him maladjusted, but it’s due more to his exposing incongruent ideas with experiences.

Public Relations in the SMP

Needless to say, the feminine imperative will always default to demonizing prostitution. It has a vested interest in maintaining a supreme valuation of gender, both amongst women themselves and for the purposes of shaming men. The sad fact remains though; you will always pay for sex in some form. You can finance it in the long term (marriage), you can beat off to the advertising (porn), you can rent it for an evening (prostitutes) or you can pay for it by more conventional means, but rest assured, you will pay for it. All AD is really doing is distilling this idea down to core elements and looking for the best service for his money.

Once you’ve crossed that line, Game, in practice, becomes irrelevant (for purposes of becoming sexual with women at least). I’ve got to admit, I have far more respect for AD than I ever would for guys subscribing to the “true forced loneliness” idea, and when you think about it, isn’t removing oneself from the game the ultimate goal of the MGTOW denomination of the manosphere? AD has at least, if not more, sexual experience with a larger variety of women than most betas or even some self-evincing PUAs do based on numbers alone.

Furthermore, a guy can flex a sense of confidence around ‘unpaid’ women when he’s safe in the knowledge that he could have (and has had) sex with women who’d otherwise be higher than her own sexual market value. It’s much easier to display the devil may care attitude women find so attractive when you really have nothing to lose. So from a certain perspective, using escorts can be a form of plate spinning. Granted, you are paying for the experiences, but it may be worth the trade off when you consider the time and cost invested in maintaining a solitary ‘unpaid’ plate.

Cost and Benefits

Whenever anyone makes a cost to benefits comparison in regard to sex with women it’s inevitably going to draw up some very uncomfortable truths. On a very base, psychological level, guys want desperately to believe that there exists some woman with the capacity to love and relate to them unconditionally, in spite of an inherent, predictable and provable hypergamy. Prostitution and social interdependence with men has been what has historically kept that hypergamy in check. Post sexual revolution, Game has evolved as a countermeasure to hypergamy, but it’s hard to ignore the utility of a classic like prostitution.

Even for the MRA guys who are well versed in the nuts and bolts of gender dynamics from a social and biological standpoint, it’s too terrible a thought to think that all the results of their efforts really just hinge upon how well he’s able to satisfy her base hypergamic list of prerequisites instead of some more esoteric value they both share together as a couple. It devalues that humanity, in a way similar to confronting nihilism, or having a deeply held ego-invested belief empirically dispelled.

Naturally, women will reinforce the opposite perception. It’s in the feminine’s interest to shame and deride any man pointing out the Achilles heel in their equation. It’s equally important to shame and deride her sisters who’d make a living from practicing the same truth they need to repress. Gold Diggers, Attention Whores, they’re both threats of overtly exposing the mechanics behind the feminine imperative – which is essentially an exchange of provisioning for sexual service –  so they must be marginalized and shamed to keep the social convention operating as discreetly as possible.

Sexuality defines our relations with women. Sex is the deal breaker. Sex is the glue that holds relationships together.

Sex is the deal breaker, without it a woman becomes your mother or sister. How you choose to address that need for sex, what price you’re willing to tolerate is at the heart of what AD is getting at in his posts. Why would anyone pay for a substandard experience at an exorbitantly overblown price? $80 will legally get you a reasonably satisfying blow job in Nevada. $300 might get you laid with an HB7 for an hour.

For Better or Worse

Before anyone gets the wrong idea, what I’m driving at here isn’t an endorsement of opting for prostitution. It’s in the interests of understanding Game in its totality that I’m exploring this. I’ve never directly paid for sex – and I lived in the state of Nevada for 8 years. I have however paid for sex (and probably far more than the direct route) in the traditional sense by over-investing in women’s intimacy for minimal or mediocre returns. I should think that this is a common thread for most men whilst plugged into the social contracts the Matrix normalizes for us. Either we don’t know any better (lack of options) or we’ve been convinced that the experience is priceless (pedestal mentality).

One of the primary reasons I disagree with the MGTOW or TFL movements is this desire to remove oneself from interacting with women. Basically they don’t want to play by the rules of the female imperative, and while there’s merit in rejecting it, I fundamentally don’t believe that abdication is desirable or even achievable. Isolation is dangerous – building fortresses around yourself  only cuts you off from information and experiences that will help you become a better Man. And while I think it’s an unavoidable reality to pay women for sex in some context, I would still advocate for learning Game (theory and practice) to maximize a Man’s potential for getting the best return on his investments. The Game-aware man is a student of the sexual market place, and he knows that it’s essentially a commodities market.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

77 comments on “Services Rendered

  1. “if you can buy the means to your sexual satisfaction what’s the point of practicing Game?”

    Some men just want to stand on the mountain-top. Some men want to climb the mountain, even if they can afford the helicopter ride.

    “a guy can flex a sense of confidence around ‘unpaid’ women when he’s safe in the knowledge that he could have (and has had) sex with women who’d otherwise be higher than her own sexual market value.”

    lol no. That’s keyboard jockey logic.

    Does standing on the top of a mountain after your helicopter ride up mean that when you’re standing at the base of another mountain, even if it’s not as high, you’re going to be confident in your ability to climb it? No, because you cheated yourself out of important self-development as a man by skipping to the finish line.

    That’s what rich guys don’t understand, and why guys like me can take girls off them at clubs without breaking a sweat. While that guy is blatantly thumbing through a wad of $100s (so common in certain places) and paying for rounds of drinks for the girls, my buddies and I are eye-fucking those girls over his shoulder and sharing a subtle chuckle with them as they roll their eyes at the guy when he’s not looking, and we take them off him after that guy’s blown a bunch of money.

    Those guys get EXTRA angry at that situation compared to a normal guy who loses a chick, because they’re so conditioned to believe “money gets me sex” concept and think it applies outside of prostitutes and it’s too much of a disconnect to understand how it didn’t happen.

    At that point they go “whatever, I can fuck hotter girls than those anyway” (even if the girls were gorgeous to him a minute ago) and they go blow more $ on a hooker to validate themselves.

    “Once you’ve crossed that line, Game, in practice, becomes irrelevant (for purposes of becoming sexual with women at least)”

    That’s like saying “You can look up a girl’s name in the phone book and put her number into your phone. So game becomes irrelevant (for purposes of getting phone numbers)” Well, ya, if you’re going to define things in that limited scope.

    If you look at Game as purely a means to become sexual with women, and not as a means to improve yourself overall as a man, you’re already on the wrong path and should seek instruction from new teachers because wherever you’re currently learning from is going to fuck you up in the long run.

    In terms of paying, whether it’s emotionally, time, money, etc., as you start on the PUA path, ya, you theoretically pay a lot for sex. You’re getting haircuts when you let your mom cut it before, you buy some nice jeans and shoes so you can get into clubs, you spend money on cover charges and buying yourself drinks to get some liquor courage flowing, you invest time and energy trying to get a girl to show up for a Day 2, etc. etc.

    But down the road once you’ve gained the skills, you start pulling it all back and taking that stuff away. You let your hair get shaggy if you want, you wear a t-shirt and old jeans and can still talk your way past the bouncers and pick up the Gucci wearing chicks inside, you know how to befriend the staff and walk into clubs free or you pick up girls in free environments like doing day game, you can befriend bartenders and get free drinks or get girls to buy them for you or, ideally, wean yourself off alcohol entirely so you don’t need liquid courage anymore. You waste no energy trying to get a girl to show up…you invite a few of them out to something you’re already doing, so if they show up, cool, if they don’t you’re not going out of your way for it and you can even pick up new ones. Even in your dialogue you do a lot less dancing monkey shit and a lot more single-word answering and qualifying the girl making her do the dancing monkey stuff for you.

    When I started out I’d spend $60-ish on a Day 2…cab ride, movie, drinks, food, etc. even splitting it with the chick. Now I spend $0. She can come over and watch a movie as our “first date” and she can bring alcohol if she wants to drink. If she’s not up for that, cool, she will be eventually, and in the meantime other girls are. I won’t even waste bus fare and travel time to travel across the city for a girl now, because I don’t need to.

    So in the end, a PUA gets to a point where he’s not investing money, time, or much energy into getting laid. That’s why we laugh at the hooker guys, and their justification of “well EVERYONE pays for sex” Ya, normal guys do. But PUAs, when they’ve been in the game a long time and they’re good enough, really don’t.

    Hell, even really good naturals don’t pay. Shitty naturals do, but not good ones.

    Of course guys who haven’t been in this position or don’t regularly hang out with guys in this position, will probably disagree with all this because it’s a lot easier for a guy to hide behind his limiting beliefs than to accept that he might be too lazy to live up to his full potential. The same way unsuccessful people will talk shit about friends who gain success because accepting that their friend who was just like them did it would mean that they’d have to look at themselves and admit that they could do it too, but just don’t have the motivation or discipline.

    1. This is a typical response from a person who:

      1) Underestimates just how much time is involved in racking up a notch

      2) Undervalues his time

      How much money do you make at your job? $10 per hour? $20? $50? More?

      I know how all this works. In order to get a “free” piece of ass you first have to go to places where there are women. Then you have to chat up ten or more women before you get 3-4 numbers. Then you have to call the numbers, set up dates, get flaked on, go out on dates, make more calls, etc. etc. until one of those ten finally ends up on your cock.

      If you were to add up the time and cash cost of doing things you wouldn’t be doing without the incentive of getting laid (and be realistic about it) you would probably realize that your actual notch count is a lot higher than you realize. Not to mention the opportunity cost that arises from time spent on the hunt that could be spent making more money.

      There are other mitigating factors involved so prostitution isn’t a 100% direct substitute for “real” sex, but if you strip it down to the bare act hookers are a lot cheaper than the real thing.

      1. This is a typical response from someone who:

        1) tried game but didn’t get very good at it

        2) won’t get very good at game

        “you first have to go to places where there are women.”

        True. Of course, I’m already going to those places because I’m hanging out with my friends or running errands or what-have-you. So really, I’m not going out of my way because I’d be there anyway. Or if I’m going on a special chick-hunt, I’m doing it in my free time while other guys are playing videogames or bitching on message boards.

        “Then you have to chat up ten or more women before you get 3-4 numbers.”

        lol 10+???? Keep working on your game.

        “Then you have to call the numbers”

        Nah, you just shoot a few txts. One that night, and a few through the week. I usually do this while I’m on the shitter. No one phones anymore, it’s 2012.

        “set up dates”

        lol if you consider “hittin ClubX tonight, you should come out” a date I guess. No one goes on gay dinner dates. You just tell them you’re doing something you have to do anyway and have them join you. “come help me pick out vegetables I don’t know shit about squeezing melons ;)” or “you should come over for lunch” (when she shows up you just escalate, dont waste your food she doesn’t really want to eat anyway) etc. so again you’re not going out of your way cause you’d be going to that club or shopping or whatever anyway.

        And that’s only if you didn’t properly attract in the initial meeting or if you have shitty txt game and didn’t build up the attraction and set a sexual frame via txts so you can just skip the whole “date” bullshit altogether.

        “get flaked on”

        That’s fine, I’m at the place doing the thing I’d be doin anyway. It’s not like I’m some retard sitting at a candlelit table at a restaraunt with two steaks i paid for on the way lol sounds like you might’ve been that a few too many times.

        “go out on dates”

        lol. Seriously, you just build attraction beforehand and invite them over and fuck them. Ya I get it, I used to waste time too, when I was a newbie and thought you needed 7 hours of comfort blah blah blah. The game has evolved and as you get better you get more efficient.

        Hell one of my natural buddies doesn’t even take girls’ numbers anymore he just hands them his. If they txt that means they want to fuck. He just invites them over and they have sex.

        Your game sucks and is inefficient. I’m sorry this may come as a shock to you.

        I’m not saying I get 100% of the girls I chat up, but I do minimize the costs in terms of time, money, and energy involved in getting them. And really even if it ended up costing, say, the same as an $80 hooker (bet THAT’S some quality poon lol), you’re paying every time. Whereas that girl comes over to fuck me for weeks, months, or years for free. And brings me free shit and cooks for me and all sorts of fun stuff lol

        On top of that, I don’t have to spend any more time with them than a hooker if I set things as just a sexual frame. They just come over, soon as I open the door I makeout with her, then carry her to the bedroom and when we’re done I send her on her way.

        You can inflate numbers and count shit like “well you wouldn’t gel your hair if it weren’t for pussy so you have to add up the cost of your hair gel per date!!!!!!!!!” if it makes you feel better about yourself and your lack of success, but the reality is: your game sucks.

        1. P.S. keep in mind I’m talking about cold-approach pickup here. I’m not even talking about easy-ass social circle game where you spend even LESS time/energy/money to get laid cause other people do half your work for you lol or hitting a bar where you’re a regular and have social proof with bartenders and waitresses and shooter girls and other people there etc.

          1. You’re not talking to a 26 year old virgin who lives in his mom’s basement dude. Those numbers are based on my own real world experience and is actually pretty damn tight considering that guys who write about this stuff for a living (who are honest about it) only claim to get one lay in every 20-40 approaches.

            I’m sure that your game is so tight that all you have to do is LOOK a chick and her panties drop, and then she proceeds to pay for all your shit for the next five years and cook you food and call in sick to work just so she can give you a blowjobs when your ten other girls are out of town.

            Fact is unless you have rock star status sex just doesn’t come as easy as you would like to believe it does “if your game is tight”. And if you do happen to have that kind of status, guess what? You probably spent hours and hours building it, and it doesn’t matter that you enjoyed doing it or that you would have been doing it anyway, the bottom line is that if it weren’t for the fact that performing those actions would ultimately lead to more sex, you would be finding other things to do with your time.

          2. Great comments YaReally. It’s refreshing to finally see comments from someone on any Game blog who really knows how to and does in real life run Game. In my view your comments are a better summary of running Game than any of the other “in the field” currently active Game blogs out there. I’m not talking about RationalMale, because this is a quality “over all theory and issues type Game blog,” so I’m refering to a bunch of other blogs. Many game blogs now have turned from meeting women into attacking women (just so any newbies out there who are starting out are aware of this change).
            Also, $300 to $500 per hour with an escort is not financially sustainable for a lot of men if they want some more than a few times a year, and it’s dangerous in the USA because if he gets busted by the police his career could be over.
            In the long run, learning and running game is legally safer and (as long as you never buy any woman your gaming anything expensive) probably cheaper and you can meet more of a variety of real women while going out having fun.

          3. “Fact is unless you have rock star status sex just doesn’t come as easy as you would like to believe it does “if your game is tight”.”

            The fact that you type stuff like this, is how I know you aren’t going out and getting laid regularly.

            The fact that you believe it, is how I know that you won’t ever get to be as good as you could be.

    2. ““a guy can flex a sense of confidence around ‘unpaid’ women when he’s safe in the knowledge that he could have (and has had) sex with women who’d otherwise be higher than her own sexual market value.”

      lol no. That’s keyboard jockey logic.”

      That’s not keyboard jockey logic at all. I’ve lived it, albeit not with a hooker, but with a main that I wasn’t emotionally invested in. The fact I could tap her for sex whenever I felt like it was what he was saying in that it gets rid of the reeking stench of sexual neediness, even if it’s artificially wiped away by hookers. There will still be some lingering aspects the man may exhibit by way of bad game, such as emotional neediness, but that’s not to be confused with simply using hookers in the context of this article.

      1. “I’ve lived it, albeit not with a hooker”

        That’s sort of the important point though, isn’t it? You were getting sex from a woman who, while you’re not interested in her, you knew deep down she wanted your cock and was chasing you. That’s abundance, sure you’d be confident from it, essentially you’re a guy who women chase and that comes through in your subcommunications.

        That’s not the same as getting sex from a woman who, while you’re not interested in her, you know deep down that she wouldn’t go NEAR your cock except that she’s forced to because you’re flashing bling but that the second you don’t have that $ she wouldn’t give you the time of day. Essentially you’re a guy who knows women aren’t interested in him, that comes through in your subcommunications.

        Not being extremely weak is not the same as being extremely strong, just as not being sexually needy is not the same thing as being confident, is all I’m saying. Using a hooker can get rid of the “stench of sexual neediness”, but it won’t help you “flex a sense of confidence” or “display the devil may care attitude women find so attractive when you really have nothing to lose” because you just went to the gym, you didn’t lift any weights.

  2. Having many women is a metaphore of being rich.

    Who has many women does not trust who has less, exactly as rich people by instinct do not trust poor people.

    Get women with game = get money from stock market.
    Get prostitutes = money from wage jobs.

    Of course, it is always the poor in favor of taxes. Go figure why.

    And no, Advocatus D has no idea what is scientific reasoning or critical thinking or whatever relevant – at least from what he writes in In Mala Fide – before I started skipping him.

  3. Depends how you define “sexual needs”.

    If your needs can be satisfied by prostitutes, then it’s a rational decision to pay for sex.

    But some of us include in our concept of sex notions of intimacy, power, and control. A big part of sex is the way the woman looks up at you adoringly. It’s the power we have over her life. It’s the fact that she is thinking about you when she is shopping for groceries. That her first inclination upon waking up is giving you food.

    Sex can be emotional. Or not. It doesn’t have to be. But for me some of my sexual needs are emotional. Some of my needs I can get with casual sex, some I can’t. Some I can get with paid for sex, some I can’t.

    I am forced to conclude that a man – any man – who gets all his sexual needs through paid for sex has sexual needs that I would consider to be basic, thin, and childish. Childish in the sense of not well developed.

    Sex can be holistic experience. It’s not just about friction on the tip of your dick.

    1. Agreed. Sex isn’t the only thing women we have seduced give us.

      I understand AD’s logic, but he cares not for the process of seduction, he just wants to bust a nut in a hottie. A seducer loves the seduction, not the target, and not merely the end result. I really enjoy it, playing with her, flirting hard, making her feel naughty and do naughty things, hearing the words “I’ve never met anyone like you”, watching her fall for you, seeing your influence on her, knowing you are in her head and her idle moments are filled with thoughts of you. Winning her heart and owning her in bed. For me, that’s what it’s all about.

    2. I’m with you on that Xsplat. Honestly now I seem to enjoy the hunt more than anything. That moment when you know that you have a girl completely wrapped around your finger, is a euphoria that is hard to describe.

  4. Yeah definitely there’s very little satisfaction in fucking a prostitute compared to a woman who genuinely wants you to fuck her, this isn’t considered in the article here.

  5. I understand what you’re getting at here, and I do agree, but how many guys are really in relationships / marriages where their woman is actually appreciating their sacrifices, much less adoringly, devotedly, contemplating her position with her husband / BF? Half the reason the manosphere exists in the first place is because this woman is so exceedingly rare to the point of idealization. This is really AD’s starting point. Why commit to the average woman who feels she entitled to your provisioning in exchange for substandard sexual experience that can easily be outclassed in intensity, frequency and variety for incrementally lower cost?

    I’m, ironically, playing devil’s advocate here, but how is prostitution not the most immediate cure for hypergamy? Remove the provisioning and/or the Alpha energy (even just momentarily) and what woman isn’t reduced to making just as practical a decision in abandoning her man for another, than a guy is in buying himself a prostitute?

    So long as hypergamy is women’s preexisting subconscious subroutine, mutual exchange and contextually varying degrees of prostitution are going to set the parameters for that relationship. You can even take sex out of the equation and base your value of the relationship on how well she satisfies non-sexual needs – if your exchange value doesn’t merit the dictates of her hypergamy she’s less inclined to see it as a beneficial exchange. And then, on top of that, this is compounded by the urgency a woman’s sexual market value represents as a rapidly diminishing asset. Hypergamy has a cruel time constraint, so this forces a woman to be a brutal pragmatist, whether what she’s offering is sexual or not.

    1. I used to be against including money in romantic considerations. That was a naive male point of view. Now I embrace any advantage I can get, and realize that women as a class have various attraction buttons that a naive man would consider unsavory and belonging to the wrong class of girl. Money and the ability to provision is one attraction trigger among many, and I’m happy to use it as an attraction trigger. Hell, I’ll even use it as a bargaining chip.

      I see money as part of the transactional exchange in LTRs. I want it that way now, as the older man can gain hand by being in the financial position of power.

      I’m a skittles provider, giving more hope than valuables, but money is allowed to be on the table. I don’t sequester the realms of money, sex, romance, and attraction. The girls literally are allowed to earn a salary, if they are working full time for me and I’m not even marrying them. That’s perfectly fair. In fact I get their labor far cheaper then I would any wage employee. But that’s at my discretion, and it’s no discredit to my strategy to occasionally show some generosity.

      As for most girls not giving puppy dog eyes and devoted attention to their men, well… There are skill sets that can be applied towards those ends. I have a long history of quickly and easily getting girls to give me the treatment. Girls who had a long string of beta orbiters who they played and didn’t fuck, girls who had a long string of casual fucks who they played or who played them, single girls, player girls. There are skills that can be routinely applied for routine effects. Is it much different than training a dog? Some say you can’t teach a stray dog off of the street as easily as you can a puppy, and that some women have broken attitudes. Perhaps – but people do break wild horses and it’s been said that some of the best domesticated horses started out wild. You don’t know about how domesticated a wild horse can be until you’ve practiced your horse training skills. The more practice the more you get a feel for horse training, and what you can expect from a given wild horse. Puppy dog eyes is not a high and grand rare achievement. It’s what should be expected from very little interaction once you have honed your skills.

      It’s like drawing. A cartoonist can do very little with just a few strokes. You won’t see the years of training that it took to master those seemingly effortless small movements. Dealing with wild women can come down to a few simple strokes, here, then there. Then more strokes further down the page. A craftsman knows what picture he is drawing, and how to bring the characters out to advance his plot. Getting puppy dog eyes is not a rare accidental event – it’s an expected part of the process.

      So I consider using money as a pragmatic part of the process of getting ones sexual needs met – it’s just that the notion that sexual needs includes puppy dog eyes is a base need of mine. It’s not a rare icing on the cake that I’m happy to get as a bonus. It’s the cake. Without that there is no cake. I know what cake I want, and I know how to get that cake.

      Men who don’t know how to consistently get that, and who view that as some rare icing would do well to learn the skills. Quality of life will be improved.

      1. lol you and your “attraction triggers”. What book did you get that term from anyway?

        While this guy is bribing girls with money they’re txting me to fuck later. One of my FB’s friends has a sugar daddy who flew them both to his city, put them up in a 5-star hotel, twelve them each $800 in shopping money for a spree. She bought lingerie to wear for me and I 3-somed them a few weeks later while they both made fun of the guy. She literally just txts him every few months when she wants some free shit. That guy thinks he’s a “playa”.

        Money = irrelevant.

        1. Yes, I’m aware that you don’t believe that women find money in and of itself to be an attraction trigger.

          I find that a very strange belief system.

          I also find it illogical that your counter argument is pointing out other attraction triggers that we both agree do exist.

          Certainly other attraction triggers can work better than money, and certainly money alone is not always sufficient. None of that means that money in and of itself is not attractive to women.

          But I know that you have a very strong ego investment in not being able to even consider the possibility that for thousands of years the common wisdom has been accurate.

          1. Most of these “Game is God” guys have ever had any amount of money or status. If they had they would understand that everything they mimic in order to get into a girls pants is based on what wealthy, high status men do naturally.

            Of course they will cite their examples of how they were banging the rich beta’s girlfriend while they both laughed about it, but they aren’t so quick to acknowledge the fact that half of the reason why they have to constantly recruit new pussy is because the women they sex eventually move on to the bigger, better deal.

            You can’t explain the effects of wealth and status to men who do not believe they will ever posses the capability to achieve either one. It isn’t within the scope of possibility and the ego investment in the idea that game trumps all is just too big.

          2. I think you just quoted one of Rollo’s laws of power. If something is unattainable, show disdain for it.

            Did I get that right?

            I’ve never quite understood that law.

          3. “they aren’t so quick to acknowledge the fact that half of the reason why they have to constantly recruit new pussy is because the women they sex eventually move on to the bigger, better deal.”

            Again, comments like this are how I know you suck at game. You haven’t gotten to the point where the women chase you, you got to the point where you were able
            to barely keep their interest (that’s why you got flaked on so much and had to go on dates instead of just having them over to fuck). And then you gave up, and probably tell yourself it’s because you had money to make and bitches aren’t important blah blah blah and now live in a happy bubble with xsplat who also doesn’t go out and pick girls up regularly.

            I’m not trying to be a dick, I’d just rather guys reading these comments know that guys like you are full of shit cause this is a good blog from the articles I’ve read so far and your “I sure was the player back in MY day kiddo, sure I haven’t set foot in a club in months or years let alone taken hot girls off guys arms and walked out with them that same night, but I’m still an expert on this stuff” just gives you a false authority that I hope guys don’t listen to because you’re just spouting stuff that lets you feel comfortable with your mediocrity.

    2. I understand what you’re getting at here, and I do agree, but how many guys are really in relationships / marriages where their woman is actually appreciating their sacrifices, much less adoringly, devotedly, contemplating her position with her husband / BF? Half the reason the manosphere exists in the first place is because this woman is so exceedingly rare to the point of idealization.

      I think the real question here is how many women are getting fucked by men they enjoy fucking, and that’s relatively frequent I would guess.

      I’m, ironically, playing devil’s advocate here, but how is prostitution not the most immediate cure for hypergamy? Remove the provisioning and/or the Alpha energy (even just momentarily) and what woman isn’t reduced to making just as practical a decision in abandoning her man for another, than a guy is in buying himself a prostitute?

      Your analogy is wrong to me, the equivalent of a woman abandoning a man for a higher value man is a man abandoning a woman for a higher value woman. Men paying for a half hour of sex is something else.

    3. “but how many guys are really in relationships / marriages where their woman is actually appreciating their sacrifices, much less adoringly, devotedly, contemplating her position with her husband / BF”

      “This is really AD’s starting point. Why commit to the average woman who feels she entitled to your provisioning”

      Wait what? Does this blog promote getting into monogamous marriages and committing to one woman? I’m new here, sorry, so I haven’t read a ton of the articles yet but if that’s the case then sure, fucking a hooker is better than getting married lol

      But even if you’re in a shitty relationship, you can get some fuckbuddies on the side for fun for cheaper. Hell if you find ones who are in sexually unsatisfying relationships themselves you don’t even have to worry about them being clingy or wanting more than just sex and they respect that you’re in a relationship and don’t fuck with it.

      Sure it takes an initial investment of time/money/energy to get TO this point, where you can set this sort of frame. But once you’re there, it’s a cakewalk and you don’t have to do anything.

    4. “I’m, ironically, playing devil’s advocate here, but how is prostitution not the most immediate cure for hypergamy? Remove the provisioning and/or the Alpha energy (even just momentarily) and what woman isn’t reduced to making just as practical a decision in abandoning her man for another, than a guy is in buying himself a prostitute?”

      I do not follow this analogy. Perhaps I’m completely missing the point here, but I’d equate a woman making the hypergamous decision in leaving a lower quality man for a higher quality one to a man leaving a less attractive woman for a more attractive and sexually satisfying one.

      For the cynics, I’m not against prostitution in the least and view it as a sensible choice for a man looking to get laid who doesn’t care to go through the whole seduction routine.

  6. The male ego and the thrill of the mating dance will always preclude prostitution from being a direct replacement for the real deal, but at the end of the day most men would benefit from having the ability to see things for what they really are.

    1. That’s putting it a bit strongly. Are all emotional transactions reducible to transactions of provisioning and sex? I find a lot of emotions to be valuable, and find that I can’t elicit them with provisioning or cash only.

      That warm feeling in my chest that I get from a mate showing love is valuable to me. I’ve never expected to be able to purchase that directly. It’s not reducible.

      However pure sex can be purchased. That is one component of a wider sexual experience that can not be purchased (with pure cash).

      1. That’s what I was getting at. You can purchase sex, but you can’t purchase the emotional high that comes from an indirect exchange. The validation they get from a non-monetary type of exchange is part of what keeps guys from being able to grasp the idea that there is no such thing as free sex.

        1. I’m not quite following you. I hear that line a lot, that there is no such thing as free sex, but I don’t think that’s true. Sometimes sex is basically free – especially short term sex or casual fuck buddy sex.

          Longer term relationships tend to have it as a prerequisite that the man can fulfill a provider role. That’s been traditional, and it’s hard wired into women’s psyches to look for that even when they don’t need it. So the overall trend is for men to pay. But to say we always pay is overstating the case more than necessary. Sometimes women fuck for free. In fact it’s one of their sexual strategies – to give away free sex to men they deem high value. For a while at least.

          1. You’re missing the bigger picture.

            The logic you are using is “The other day I was at a friend’s party and was introduced to his girlfriend’s best friend who was visiting from out of town. We hit it off and ended up having a one night stand in his spare bedroom that night. Since I was eating his food and drinking his liquor and staying at his place that makes the sex FREE.”

            Although you might not have spent a penny of your mony that night there were still costs involved. Your clothes, your haircut, reciprocation cost when your buddy expects you to return the favor, opportunity cost because of the TIME that was involved, costs involved in building the relationship with your buddy, etc.

            This may sound like it’s splitting hairs but you have to factor in ALL of that stuff. It’s not as simple as ” I didn’t drop any cash on her that night so it was free.” You have to factor in everything. Most of these costs will be split among other notches and other benefits you get from them and it is impossible to distill into an exact number, but at the end of the day it all factors in and it serves to underscore the points of this post.

    2. “The male ego and the thrill of the mating dance will always preclude prostitution from being a direct replacement for the real deal, but at the end of the day most men would benefit from having the ability to see things for what they really are.”

      You got me there chief. That’s still me some days. It’s quite the high once you gain that very total power over a woman though. Sometimes it’s better than the sex.

  7. Three instances before I had that happen (I wanted to see what they were selling there and how she attempted to close), so these hotties asked questions to engage, with eye contact she stroked a finger like it was a dick, it would have been simple to buy the lotion thinking that it was getting sex from her only to get home with only lotion, so I did not buy anything, I said I gotta go somewhere and I walked away.
    Making prostitution illegal in the U.S. (except in limited areas of Nevada) has to be part of the feminized-government attempt to control men (maybe as an incentive to marriage to be tied to a state). If it was legal then there might not be much talk between men about game, although there still likely would be game because younger guys wouldn’t have the dough to consistently pay for it. Game is to become better at seduction to pay less. Highlighting “Johns” in the news is just another way for the feminine imperative to shame men for trying to get laid one way or another (probably every man in the wild west would have been thrown in jail in this feminized day in age).
    There have been moments upon hearing how a wealthy guy buys an arrangment with a younger attractive woman and feel jealous towards him and view him as being wrong, but upon reflection to be honest with myself if I had the cash I probably would do the same thing.
    With a bunch of men paying out millions in divorces recently (maybe that payment was an expensive back-end cost that started out with intimacy but it decreased with age, or it was a Long Term cost for her to have and raise his children, or it is just proof that he wasn’t aware that he should have got a PNA). These men are paying more for what at least to him in his mind is her giving affection/the apperance of love to him/his children, than it is for the physical sexual contact because for multi-millions he could have just bought a new woman daily. Then when his wife who he thought affectionately loved him leaves with his money and his house he can see what she really loved and was after, so then he is left with no sex from her and no affection from her either.
    It’s still beneficial to learn and apply game to become a stronger man, to go out get shot down often, get back up, and keep on going.

  8. I don’t know why you guys are arguing. For guys whose game sucks and always will, prostitution is a great option. Sure, having game so tight that 9s txt you wanting sex is way better. But most of us will never be there. Is that just giving up? Yeah, I suppose it is. And?

  9. Game (and a few drinks) = $10 (Increased confidence, being more outgoing, more self worth, good chance of repeats for free). Hire = $400 (Decreased confidence, trip to clinic and medication $200, chance of HPV and HSV, possible bail $1000). Marriage = $500,000 (Not get what paid for, divorce decreases net worth by half).
    95% of the hookers I’ve seen pictures of (US and Canada) look disgusting like they are on drugs probably because they are addicted to drugs and they are hooking for money for her next hit of drugs. Instead of $400 for once with a hooker, even saying I spent $400 going to clubs I could get a ROI of 4 to 10 times so that’s more effective math.
    Once someone is doing something then each side is going to defend his point of view, so there is no reason to argue about it.

    1. I’m playing devil’s advocate here but that would depend on how much you value your time, and if you genuinely enjoy going to clubs.

      1. I value my time and I LOATHE going to clubs, so prostitutes are the best option when I just want a quick lay, no questions asked, no bullshit required. And a lot of the “lolololol your game sucks” people don’t realize that the rich, high-status guys don’t pay hookers to have sex with them, they pay the hookers to service them and then get the fuck out of dodge,

  10. No it does not invalidate Game. Is there a difference between someone who steals money vs someone who earns money? Is there a difference between someone who spends daddy’s money vs owns his own business and can appreciate what he can spend because he made it? Is there a difference between a hunter who goes out and hunts and shoots a deer and has a sense of accomplishment and conquest vs someone who happens with their car hit a deer? Is there a difference between paying to be the fourth she’s had that day vs being the only she’s had that day? Do people get upset when they hear that a sporting event that they thought was a competition between men was just a fake scam because one team paid off the other team? Then, there would be no legitimate sports. That would be like in the Super Bowl NFL game if the men were ready to do battle and one of the coaches walked out onto the field and said the game is over because for a million dollars I bought the trophy and it’s all mine as he giddily kisses the trophy and the crowd goes silent and the players are like WTF. The difference is who you become as a man.

  11. “You will always pay for sex in SOME form.”

    Even if it’s not in the form of money, you and a woman still make a transaction.

      1. This is bizarre to me, this is one of the most serious game blogs around, but here Rollo is accepting that in every sexual relationship the man is, to some extent, a trick. How anti-game.

        1. Not really. All things in life are a transaction of sorts, each with it’s own unique opportunity costs.

          Think about spending time with your closest friends, or going out on a limb for one in need. That’s a transaction despite no money being involved. You spend time, wit, energy in exchange for a genuine companion, and the times you share. Your friend does the same.

    1. There used to be a website in Thailand called , that was used by western men and local young women. It was common for the girls you’d meet on that site to come over and have free same day sex.

      I suppose you could argue that the cost of that sex was the time it takes to log onto the computer and the effort put into chatting. Is that the kind of argument that is meant by the idea that we “always” pay for sex?

      If so, it gets to be a bit of a meaningless distinction, doesn’t it? By that logic even the time it takes to have sex is a payment of your time.

      The true intuition is that women tend to want to be compensated for sex. Tend to. They don’t always demand, and don’t always get compensation. No strings attached sex with very little effort does happen. Saying that ALL of it is paid for seems to diminish the meaning of what payment really is. Kind of like saying that all sex is rape.

      Another point is that some aspects of sex require transactions that aren’t monetary. A payment of sorts, in social exchange. Affection and devotion require the payment of certain social graces, and they require an investment in finding a woman receptive to your graces.

      So the bigger picture is that on the whole, we pay for sex with social and monetary exchanges, and on the whole a realistic strategy towards getting regular sex should include in it knowledge of the transactional nature of sex. On the whole doesn’t have to be = to always in order to be meaningful. Men – especially men seeking long term relationships by women who have baby rabies – tend to be judged as sexually attractive based in part on provider ability. On the whole money or the appearance of being able to eventually successfully earn it is built right into the fabric of sexual attractiveness. Although money signals fitness, you can also signal it in other ways, but those other ways may not be important enough when the girl is filtering for someone who could at least be worthy of an LTR.

      Casual sex is the freest type of sex where other proxies of fitness other than money can be used, and time investment can be so minimal that the the sex is basically free, unless you count the time and effort it takes to perform it. Admitting to those situations doesn’t mean that on the whole women don’t see sex as transactional, and feel cheated and cheap if they don’t get paid in cash or commitment for putting out. On the whole doesn’t have to be = to always. On the whole sex is a commodity. The exceptions to this are common and obvious enough that we need to admit them. Casual sex is less transactional.

  12. Lots of these comments just reek of insecurity – if you want to go the game route, good for you. But why the hell would you care so much about what other guys are doing to get some if you’re knee-deep in pussy?

    I’ve used both, and what Rollo says is true for me anyway. I fall in the high paying job, not a lot of time category. I also used to be a complete beta. Knowing I can get regular sex with extremely attractive women, no matter what, made a huge difference. If you’re not starving, you’re not desperate.

    It also makes a big difference in terms of knocking women off the pedestal beta guys tend to put them on. I’m more in the Spitzer price range than what you’re talking about, but I think you’d be surprised by what’s out there. Virtually every porn star escorts. There are also a huge number of magazine models, B-list actresses, pageant queens, Playmates, etc. – basically, any women that will sell her sexuality will likely also sell sex.

    I used to be really nervous around really attractive women. And whenever I got a shot, I’d blow it – out of a combination of nerves and viewing a shot at someone really hot as something rare that might not come around again for a long time. When you’ve been with enough women like that, you stop putting them on the pedestal. You realize there’s nothing special about it, and you’ve been with hotter and will be with hotter in the future. And you realize that most women would sell sex in a second if they could get the right price.

    I’ve got no problems with game – I actually think it’s great, and good to build confidence in life in general. But not every guy is going to succeed at it the way they want to. And not every guy cares about “the chase” – sometimes you just care about the sex.

    1. And perhaps that’s the larger point. Being able to at least get the basic sexual needs met with attractive women on demand lessens the power of the pedestal.

      I’m glad of the option, even if I prefer not to use it. There may come a day when I use it more.

    2. You’ve managed to summarize my thoughts on the matter pretty well. For all the gamers out there, think of it as “training wheels” of sorts, you can’t go from Betamax to Alpha Prime overnight.

  13. Money is just another way of gauging power and proof of just how “alpha” you are. If you claim to be “alpha” but have nothing to show for it – sure you may be able to get young women, but the older they get and the louder the biological gong gets, the more it is a consideration since a woman wants someone who can provide for and protect any children and that requires assets – that is a biological imperative, and cannot be overcome easily.

    If you are a man, you will “pay” in some way – whether that is monetarily, or access to your time above others – there is ALWAYS a cost with any commodity. That is why socialism does not work – people are greedy and want what is best for them. So if you have a service you can provide, you want what is best for you and if you don’t get it, you have no incentive to improve, maintain, or offer it.

    Now when it comes to “hookers” you have to consider what you are getting for your money – bottom of the barrel – at least in the US. In other countries there are a lot of “weekend-hookers” or “educational hookers”. I have a friend who has a condo in another country, and has three college age women living there. They are available to him when he flies in every month, and the cost is their tuition, food, power, etc.. That is very common in other countries – and is becoming more so in this country, although not quite so openly. Every four to six years, one of them completes her education, and another one moves in.

    This type of GFE is relatively common in other countries and growing in this one as the difference in income grows, and more and more young women find the cost of college outstrips income. This way they have sex with one man over several years, so they can delude themselves that it is no different then having a long-term boy-friend. And really there is little difference – it’s just that the “trade” is a little more explicit.

    1. It’s very common in Latinamerican countries, where college-aged girls usually rent a small apartment and service their clients there in a discreet fashion, and once they’ve graduated they drop off the business altogether. Hell, some college girls even do it just for the thrill, the attention, and money to buy expensive shit since Daddy already pays the tuition anyway.

  14. No prob with the rest of your post but this:

    “If you claim to be “alpha” but have nothing to show for it – sure you may be able to get young women, but the older they get and the louder the biological gong gets, the more it is a consideration since a woman wants someone who can provide for and protect any children and that requires assets – that is a biological imperative, and cannot be overcome easily.”

    Is Jockey-Talk. If you’re an alpha with no resources they’ll still fuck the shit out of you, and if their clock is ticking they’ll try to get pregnant from you. They’ll just find a beta tool to provide the resources and raise your kid, and you’ll be the secret lover on the side.

    It’s no harder at all to get them into bed or to fall in love with you if you have no resources.

    1. I find it unnerving that you are able to believe this.

      In a similar way that I find it unnerving that a Jehova’s witness is able to belief his obvious lies.

      The mental backflips you perform effortlessly are freaking scary.

  15. “I find it unnerving that you are able to believe this.”

    I think what I love most is when guys who VERY CLEARLY do not go out and pick up regularly use phrases like “you’re able to believe this” or “you think this” or “you’d like to believe” when they disagree with me.

    Yes, I “believe” this stuff. Do you know why? Because I am actually out in the field regularly seeing and experiencing this stuff in action instead of sitting in my armchair jockeying like you. It’s not a matter of “belief”. I don’t “believe” water is wet, it just IS. Go put your hand in water and you’ll see that it’s wet. It’s that simple. The fact that you question it tells me right away that you haven’t put your hand in water.

    Older chicks who want to settle down and have a kid will look for a provider, but they’re still women who want to be sexually turned on so they’ll look for good sex on the side. If the guy they settle with is a good provider but super beta (the easiest guys for them to get to settle into marriage), they’ll cheat on him on the side and try to get an alpha baby. They’ll hook up with guys who look similar to their hubby so they can try to pass the baby off as his since a lot of guys are still too dumb to get DNA tests done.

    One of my FBs wears her engagement ring when she blows me because she thinks it’s “naughty”. She’s not on the pill and never wants to use a condom (but we do) and has flat out said if she got pregnant “you wouldn’t have to worry about it”. She would happily get pregnant by me and have her boy raise it as his own, without a second thought or her conscience giving a damn.

    And this isn’t the only chick like this, I’d say probably 80% of the girls I’ve fucked who have significant others have the same attitude (regardless of age, though the older they are the more likely it is since they’re dying to have a kid whereas the younger chicks aren’t as baby-hungry).

    Fucking older chicks is easy, even with no resources. You just have to make sure you watch your own ass and wrap your tool so you don’t get them pregnant ’cause they’ll try every trick in the book to make it happen.

    1. I’m not disagreeing that it’s possible to fuck married women. I’m dissagreeing with this:

      “if their clock is ticking they’ll try to get pregnant from you. They’ll just find a beta tool to provide the resources and raise your kid, and you’ll be the secret lover on the side.

      It’s no harder at all to get them into bed or to fall in love with you if you have no resources.”

      You are implying that this applies to most women.

      Certainly it applies to some women. I’ve caused more pregnancies than I have fingers myself, and never made any gestures towards marriage. I’ve fucked both married and engaged girls. But I don’t generalize out from these cases onto most women.

      Women very certainly do often have the sexual strategy of looking for their mate to be their provider. Sometimes they accept that the provider and the father can be a different person, but genetic studies show that this is a minority of cases, especially among the educated white classes and among the more socially conservative.

      You see things in the very strangest black and white fanatical terms. A real religious fanatic.

      1. “You are implying that this applies to most women.”


        “Certainly it applies to some women.”

        Really? Then what you’re whining is about? The exact % degree of how many women it applies to? Should we narrow it down to 71.354% or find some scientific studies that say it’s 18.232243534%?

        “Sometimes they accept that the provider and the father can be a different person”

        So you agree with me. Then wtf are you on about?

        “but genetic studies show that this is a minority of cases”

        …you’ve heard of condoms right? Just ’cause they want another guy’s kid doesn’t mean they get it. Although maybe in your world where you’re out irresponsibly “causing more pregnancies than I have fingers myself”

        “especially among the educated white classes and among the more socially conservative.”

        Almost as if those people would be more likely to use birth control…weird!! :O

        “You see things in the very strangest black and white fanatical terms. A real religious fanatic.”

        Label me whatever you want, it doesn’t make your points any more legit.

        “It could totally pummel your confidence if you were to acknowledge an attraction trigger that you don’t possess.”

        You can’t just make shit up and call it “attraction triggers”. You’re the guy who wears a new shirt out and goes “I got attention today!! This new shirt is an attraction trigger! If other guys have this shirt, they’ll get attraction!!” You’re still looking at surface level shit instead of what the underlying core reasons that shirt got you noticed, and why money seems to help, and how it’s not the money or shirt itself but the other things they do to your subcommunications which you can duplicate via other means.

        This is a REALLY simple concept. You’re just not looking past the surface.

    2. But hey, don’t let a mere trifle like reality give you “limiting beliefs”.

      It could totally pummel your confidence if you were to acknowledge an attraction trigger that you don’t possess.

      So watch out for that.

      The most important thing is confidence. Truth that gets in the way of that only limits you and serves you no purpose.

  16. Any previous comments or this comment is not to judge anyone (that is not my intent or the tone of my typing), but just for me and others to think about issues and to further try to understand the logic of some in the context of game statements. In game a statement said is, “Don’t put the pussy on a pedestal,” so that would involve guys who are starting out and are so nervous of women that they don’t even have the courage/confidence to approach and talk to women. If money is used as a medium of exchange of (real or perceived) value, then paying thousands of dollars for a high end, is saying monetarily that it is of high value, thus “Putting the pussy ON the pedestal,” (or if not ON the pedestal, then in the direction of higher up). If money is a form of power in that it can be used for purchasing-power and for the power to do things, then the more money handed over in an exchange is giving more power from the male TO the female. Not that I have a problem with any of this, it’s just to clarify the logic of some of these statements. Probably the majority of guys even in game who say this still put pussy on the pedestal, as do those who get married and buy her expensive things. How are the countries where it is legal as far as the unpaid inter-gender dynamics goes? There have been celebrities who have gotten busted even with low ends (where they could have gone to a bar for 10 minutes and picked-up better, but the fem-laws and fem-media got their jollies for a few days (I would say laws like this and going 10 MPH over the speed limit are just silly and are attempts to control men and collect revenue). There are many celebrities with girls like 30 years younger, so those are probably sugar daddy arrangements. I’m not moralizing against this (I dislike when people are moralistic), as I’m just trying to better understand some game terms that are said. I have not yet, but I’m also being honest as I’m not saying someday in the next 50 years that if for instance I was in a country where it was legal that I wouldn’t try it, but I’d like to think that I still would be primarily gaming women (at least up until then and even then). To partake in the high end (especiailly in the US) more than a few times a dude has to be loaded. Therefore, those of us without the huge stash of cash, have to go out and game women for some cheaper services.

  17. I cosign on Jim’s comment.

    For the majority of men, buying escorts is not a financially sustainable hobby unless you’re very high net-worth and/or high income. In the U.S., agency girls and high quality independents run well over 400 + an hour. Most of the women charging 200-400 are your run-of-the-mill HB6s and HB7s, nothing to get excited about. I would not touch anyone charging less than 200. Also keep in mind that the cost does not include the risk of getting arrested here in the U.S. and potentially ruining your reputation as a “sleazy john”

    Why not just look at porn for free? Is it not essentially the same thing? Heck if we want to talk in terms of opportunity cost that’s a better deal than spending the 400 + about 3-4 hours it would probably take to choose a girl, arrange the meeting, clean my place up, have drinks ready, and groom myself. For a young guy like me making 50k a year, 400 dollars to essentially bust one nut is just not worth it

    That money could be used towards making myself more attractive to the opposite sex (gym membership, nice clothes, dance lessons, a public speaking course, healthy organic food). Investing $400 in myself makes me a bit more attractive therefore gives me a bit more options with women, hopefully leading to more and better quality sex. Am I paying for sex still? Sure, but how is that any different from women spending money on nice clothes, makeup, tanning, and the gym. Both sexes put time, money, and effort into making themselves attractive to the opposite gender. Its just too many guys are lazy and would rather solve all their problems by throwing money at it.

    Speaking in utilitarian terms, I would derive far greater long-term overall happiness (beyond sexing women) investing my time and effort in a strong social network, an athletic body, and fun hobbies than from the rush of a single orgasm.

    Let me reiterate I’m not against using escorts, I just feel like my financial position is nowhere close to where that expense is justifiable given other more effective avenues to deploy my resources. This discussion is of little practical value to 90% of guys in similar or lesser circumstances reading this.

    1. Remember that were prostitution legal you could probably have a cute college girl for $100. Only in the dominion of feminists and alphas is a whore worth more than a urologist.

  18. I think there is an interesting contrast:

    On the one hand you can overcharge kino-deprived beta males for services.

    On the other hand regular consumption, or maybe VR later as blogger TFH promotes, leads to less incentive to interact with below average looking women.

  19. Sorry, but that was a weak effort by Ferdinand. What he did was place upon himself the precise same neuroses that women have on them: they only want to be around Alphas. Betas cure disease, build bridges, start businesses and all sorts of other things. They have weakness in life, sure. But who doesn’t. Alphas have all sorts of other problems – the prisons are full of them. You and Ferd can trust these guys, carte blanch.

  20. Yesterday I heard that LE is cracking down even more on establishments in the U.S. where there is suspected s. trafficking (even if it’s not happening there), and there was even photos of a raid at one such establishment in the newspaper of people arrested. Also, it said that some states in the USA are looking into making all escorting illegal (from ads, phone numbers, to internet sites), as they are saying that escorts are a cover for illegal prostitution. A major national escort site (not referring to CL either) was shut down last year. Last week a popular national escort site (not even BP, as this was on a “legit” escort site) in the U.S. posted a warning that a specific phone number was for a LE sting and to not call it. If prostitution was legal and no charge, then there probably would be no need for “game.” The best bet for P4P would be to under the table know an independent escort, or to travel to other countries (except a few in the Middle that are even worse than the USA). With all this govt stuff going on I now won’t even register on a “reference site” and many escorts require references. It’s crazy how a LE officer can in some states go through with it as part of a sting, then he can turn around arrest others. Maybe now instead of going back to prohibition for control, the fem-govt wants escort-hibition, and after the 2012 elections with some religions involved, this could be a possibility. It was said if one state starts this, the rest would probably follow suit. If so, probably the politicians will still use taxpayer money to screw everyone.
    For Game Theory, could game be defined as to what game is? With game, how much is just logistics? How much of game to meet/interact with women is just taking the initiative to approach more, so is it really just mostly a numbers game? How much is it being each others look/type? How much of it simply just comes down to the logistics of both drinking late at night and going to your place to continue the interaction?
    There is much use of the terms Alpha and Beta and Omega (for lack of current better terms). Not every guy has to be (or can be), or is even if he thinks he is an Alpha. Being a beta is not necessarily bad (as most guys are beta). So, this could be explained more eventually.

  21. I was going to add, that probably the fem-govt wants to make even escorts illegal because the States and Federal govt’s are in so much debt that they want to tap into this billions of dollars a year industry to collect more taxes to cover their own debts. Or, if they they can’t find ways to tax prositution (like some countries already are taxing it), then they want to make it illegal, then the escorts would have to get jobs in fast food (making the ladies fat), so at least the govt could tax those fast food wages.
    Also, many white-knights would say prostitution is wrong. However, most of the women who go into escorting do so on their own free-will because they want the easy/quick money, and when a “john” (another stupid term) and an escort meet it is mutual consent when they close a deal together, so that’s their own personal choices.

  22. I have to Agree with Yareally, I began learning about game and game tactics at 15, then came to college and lost weight and while I still learned about game, I was doing the whole take a chick out to the movies, dinner etc. thing. Now it’s gotten to the point where I only do that if I’m interested in said activity. I haven’t had sushi in a while and I’d like to go with a pretty chick, os I’ve invited a few out lately. I wanted to go see a movie last night and I wanted a girl to go with me, movie was sold out and we went back to my place and had sexytime. Another one I invited over to make dinner with me (cooking for anyone including family and friends and having them enjoy it brings almost as much satisfaction to me as making it with a chick) and we banged after. Honestly, I haven’t spent more than $40 on at least the last four girls I’ve gotten with, you just have to be one suave, charming motherfucker and invite them to go do things you already want to do, shell out a little cash ($20 bucks is too much? dude, c’mon). Most guys make the mistake of making the date about the girl. Fuck that, make it about the both of you having a great time. Sadly, what the guys who pay for sex don’t realize is that you can’t get the satisfaction of going out and having a great time and knowing that the girl wants to fuck you because she likes you. That’s why the business transaction for sex is so hollow. Yes, the punchline is sex, but the journey’s the fun part (if, like Yareally said, your game is tight)

  23. Well, a man could do both. Learn game, go out and if you hit a rough dry patch, go fuck some high class escort. It will certainly help reduce desperation in guys who are just starting to learn game. Less desperation means more interest from the chicas. Just make sure you fuck high class escorts so as to minimize chance of STDs. Your average sorority club chic anyway gets rawdogged at 4 AM every weekend – so if anything, escorts pose less risk of STDs.

    All of this shaming is useless. Fuck shame and fuck guilt. Just don’t deceive yourself. Every man has to do the hard work of handling rejections and learning game. That doesn’t mean he has to do it going pussyless for months.

  24. This is some hard hitting truth here, Rollo. One could even say it is “anti-game” (as some already), which makes it more commendable coming from you, considering your audience.

    Never stop scrutinizing, sir. The moment you stop allowing yourself from following thoughts such as these, then you’ll be stuck in ideology.

  25. Pingback: Game Works |
  26. @agent p
    > What married man has not done the “hooker math” after
    > a failed date night?

    Change that to “What man . . . ”

    If you ever have a chance to read The Happy Hooker, an oldie from 1971 in which former hooker and madam Xaviera Hollander describes her typical brother clientele, you’ll note that weekend knights after 1-3 am were peak periods when the guys who had been turned down for sex by the girls they had taken out on dates showed up to get their balls drained, probably at a lower cost than their bills for the date.

  27. And speaking of the old-time classic books, How to be the Jerk Women Love by Frank Shark from 1994 has a calculation by FJ, using very conservative assumptions, that prostitutes have a much low cost-per-fuck (CPF) than wives do.

  28. All right guys, 34-yo former nice guy with no money and fair body who is now working for the Top Pharma company in the World (making 3000 euro gross) with a good workout body. Let’s see:

    1) there is no such thing as “game”. If you think that “game” gets you laid, I am sorry to disappoint you. When you hit a club, bar, pub, supermarket, or whatever, chances are that what you are going to tell to that hot chick has been said by 100 guys before you at least. and the older the hot chick is, the higher the chances. Truth is, men and women do not have hypervariable behaviors. Which leads me to my second point.
    2) then what makes the difference between success and failure? it is not game, it is resources (money, car, job, house, being the douche who works as doorman at a club, sky instructor, ecc). Women unconsciously crave for resources. Therefore, if you have that, you can spit shit tthrough your mouth that they will go to bed with you. now, the opposite, you may have William Shakespeare’s prose and intellect, but if you ain’t got no home, no car, no money, you ain’t got no pussy, homey. Do you think NFL players have “game”? Yeah, right. A 100k Mercedes is THE ultimate game.
    3) Guys, I am the guy who never gets laid and I can tell you: show some money and pussy gets wet. A girl I was chasing never gave a f..K about me… until I got my job. Then SHE started chasing me.
    4) As Bill Burr said: “the greatest trap a man can fall into is believing he can get laid without paying”. You may not spend cash, but if you spend time, you are spending resources.. Remember: “time is money”. If you dedicate 8 hours of the day to get laid… you are spending THE MOST VALUABLE COMMODITY EVER: money comes and goes… time spent is gone FOREVER.
    5) When a man starts making REAL money (I am not one of them… yet) he realizes that his hour is worth 50 USD, for instance. So if the guy goes to spend 4 hours at a nightclub to pick some NPD chick he is already spending 200 dollars of his time. That, my friends, is a non-return investment. If the same guy calls a hooker, he fucks for half an hour with a 100% return of investment.

    “Game” is the ultimate and most manipulative strategy women have to retain approval and control men.

    Don’t get me wrong, I love women, I look forward to get into a healthy and loving relationship. Thing is, I already know how the system works.

    “Game” is a fair and decent strategy for guys who work jobs that do not pay well, are unemployed or studying. And it is perfectly acceptable. Now, the higher you get in the food pyramid, the cheaper it is to pay for a hooker.

    This guy nails it:

  29. I done PUA thing but I’ve also used whores.The only men carrying on about whores are yanks.Meanwhile they pay strippers and seem to put them on a pedestal.Paying strippers is paying to be cock teased…and then brag about picking up a stripper like they climbed Everest..I’ve had 2 stripper girlfriends big deal I’m actually not proud of it.One was the worst no cock sense lay I’ve ever had.

    The rest of us don’t care I’ve been to Europe and got laid there more times than I can remember.I’ve also been to FKK clubs there and oh my God you don’t know what your missing out on.

    The more strippers the more unhappy frustrated men.Most guys I know especially Alphas that love sex also bang whores on the side.

    You also forgot the role played by whores for disable and disfigured men.
    Also men with mental health issues.

    I’ve got no issue picking up normal chicks or banging a whore if I want.
    And I actually enjoy seems the yank PUA go on this moral crusade against hookers because it’s illegal…yet you can’t drink till your 21 lol.

    Who the fuck are these PUA that tell me how to live my life almost like some cult.We fuck whores for sport..big deal.

    And I have picked up after fucking a escort ,just don’t shower after you’ve done the deal.

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