Quality Women

quality_women

Reader Coy expressed a need for illumination on the myth of the Quality woman:

Rollo,
I would really appreciate your thoughts on “the quality woman”. You have touched on the phenomena in many of your previous posts but i really feel my self subconsciously slipping into that binary circle jerk of madonna/whore . A dedicated post would be nice.

I briefly touched on this in AFC Social Conventions:

The Myth of the “Quality” Woman

It seems like all I read about on SoSuave these days is a never ending quest for a “Quality Woman.” There’s threads asking for clear definitions of what constitutes a “Quality” woman and others that conveniently set women up into 2 camps – Quality women and Hors, as if there were no middle ground. How easy it becomes to qualify a woman based on her indiscrretions (as heinous as they’re perceived to be) for either of these catagories. This is binary thinking at its best – on or off, black or white, Quality woman or Hor.

I think the term ‘Quality’ woman is a misnomer. Guys tend to apply this term at their leisure not so much to define what they’d like in a woman (which is actually an idealization), but rather to exclude women with whom they’d really had no chance with in the first place as an ego-preservation method, or mistakenly applied too much effort and too much focus to only to be rebuffed. This isn’t to say that there aren’t women who will behvae maliciously or indiscriminately, nor am I implying that they ought to be excused out of hand for such. What I am saying is that it’s very AFC to hold women up to preconceived idealizations and conveniently discount them as being less than “Quality” when you’re unable to predict, much less control their behaviors.

The dangers inherent in this convention is that the AFC (or the DJ subscribing to the convention) then limits himself to only what he perceives as a Quality woman, based on a sour-grapes conditioning. Ergo, they’ll end up with a “Quality” woman by default because she’s the only candidate who would accept him for her intimacy. It becomes a self-fulfiling prophecy by process of elmination. Taken to its logical conclusion, they shoot the arrow, paint the target around it and call it a bullseye, and after which they’ll feel good for having held to a (misguided) conviction.

So why is this a social convention then? Because it is socially unassailable. Since this convention is rooted to a binary premise, no one would likely challenge it. It would be foolish for me to say “Yes Mr. DJ I think you ought to avoid what you think of as Quality women.” Not only this, but we all get a certain satisfaction from the affirmation that comes from other men confirming our own assessment of what catagory a woman should fit into. Thus it becomes socially reinforced.

Be careful of making a Quality woman your substitute for a ONEitis idealization.

Back when he had a terrestrial radio show Tom Leykis did a topic about this: He had everyday women call in and tell their stories of how they used to be sexually (i.e. slutty) and how they are now. He came up with this after driving past a grade school on his way to the studio and seeing all of the women there waiting for their kids to come out and wondered about what their lives used to be like in their childless 20s. This was a wildly popular topic and the confessions just poured in like all of these women had been waiting for years to come clean anonymously about the sexual past that their husbands would never dream they were capable of. Each of these women sounded proud of themselves, almost nostalgic, as if they were some kind of past accomplishments.

This is why I laugh at the concept of the Quality woman. Don’t misinterpret that as a “women = shit” binary opinion. I mean it in the sense that most guy’s concept of a quality woman is an unrealistic idealization. There’s not a guy in the world who committed to monogamy with a woman who didn’t think she was ‘quality’ when he was with her. Even if she was a clinical neurotic before he hooked up with her, she’s still got “other redeeming qualities” that make her worth the effort. It’s only afterwards when the world he built up around her idealization comes crashing down in flames that she “really wasn’t a Quality Woman.”

Force Fit

The Quality Woman is defined by how well she fits a man’s conditioned ideal. Good Luck Chuck lamented in last week’s Hyenas that after a certain age all women are Alpha Widows, or, progressively lose the idealization of embodying the Quality Woman. While I understand the frustration, there’s an eerily similar tone that men use when they bemoan the lack of Quality Women in the world that echoes women’s when they ask “what happened to all the real men?” The only difference being that in girl-world a woman is entitled to a real man irrespective of her own quality, while a man is less of a Man for his complaints of her lacking those qualities.

I don’t envy the situation monogamy minded men in this era find themselves in. As we become a more and more connected society the indiscretions of a woman’s past will become increasingly more difficult to hide, much less temper. Whereas before, unless a woman had worked in porn, documenting her sexual and/or intimate past may have been an effort best reserved for private investigators. Now it’s as easy as reading her social media footprint archived for all to read.

This is tough on a guy sold on idealistic notions that his virgin bride is awaiting him somewhere in the world. That may be a bit binary for all but the most white knight of guys, but by order of degree, and with a measured prudence, I think it’s important for men to disabuse themselves of finding the virgin slut, who’ll only be his virgin slut.

And while I would never advocate a guy to hurry up and marry those sluts, the problem with this idealization is that men want to force fit the woman who most closely resembles his Quality Woman into that fantasy role. It becomes a psychological feedback loop – connect with a “Quality Woman”, discover her flaws, personal conditions and the decisions she made that resulted in them, then (after attempts at rationalizing them himself) disqualify her from the Quality Woman designation. The cycle comes full circle when her disqualification as a Quality Woman sets the environment for finding his next ‘jewel in the rough’.

The bad news and the good news of this is that, as connectivity and communication among men increases, so too do they realize that the Quality Woman is an impossibility even for the most gracious of women. Thanks to the rise of the manosphere we have a global consortium of men exchanging their individual experiences with women to compare and contrast with their own. The good part is it’s easy to generate a list of red flags to watch out for or read about the consequences men have suffered as a result of their blue pill existences. The bad part is that with that greater understanding comes the realization that even the best of women are still subject to hypergamy, the feminine imperative and the fem-centric environment they find themselves in.

A little bit of knowledge is sometimes dangerous – after a lot of this realization and the discernement that comes from it men are likely to have a very long list of prerequisites and red flags develop. I’m not saying men should surrender to the inevitability of marrying some raging former slut, but I am saying that an important part of unplugging oneself from the Matrix is letting go of the idealization of the Quality Woman. There are a lot of caring and nurturing former sluts, and there are pristine and chaste women only lacking the proper motivation to move them in a direction no one would ever expect of them.

 

5 2 votes
Article Rating

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

Speak your mind

164 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Good Luck Chuck
Good Luck Chuck
8 years ago

Our women aren’t flawed. Our society is. That’s why you can’t win either way. Marry her when she’s old and used up- you got some old used up pussy that is incapable of bonding with you in a proper feminine way. Marry her when she’s young and you get a few years of proper bonding but then the “what am I missing?” kicks in and it’s only a matter of time. You can’t win. You just can’t win. Not the way our liberal, feminized society is structured. The overwhelming balance of power is in the hands of the women. She… Read more »

jack
jack
8 years ago

Talking about number counts, what would legitimate averages be for women:

early 20s

late 20s

mid to late 30s

I know that living near an urban center makes these numbers higher. But I’m trying to get a range for what one should expect from today’s Anglo-American women.

Kate
Kate
8 years ago

You can win, Chuck. With the knowledge you have, I believe you can. When a woman is in love, she does forget everyone who came before. Look, just because a woman wants a divorce doesn’t mean a man has to agree to it. Just say no; its what she wants to hear anyway. Red-pill men are the most prepared to be dominant husbands. Blue-pill men are the ones who shouldn’t be getting married. They are also the ones who will agree to divorce.

Danger
Danger
8 years ago

@Kate,

I don’t care if a slut is in love with me. I don’t want a slut anymore than a woman wants a beta man as her lover.

Ton
Ton
8 years ago

I think most of the bitching is from guys who are butt sore women get to slut it up and then marry decent guys while the good men struggle in the SMP. They don’t like the idea their LTR has a higher partner count either Most men have a strong sense of justice and women getting away with it makes them angry. Mostly legitimate anger, but there is no justice in this world but what we make for ourselves I understand not wanting a banged out slut, and I get being angry about what is going on, but the only… Read more »

Good Luck Chuck
Good Luck Chuck
8 years ago

I think most of the bitching is from guys who are butt sore women get to slut it up and then marry decent guys while the good men struggle in the SMP. Life is always going to be a tradeoff. I’m sure there are plenty of things we could complain about had we been born in another time or place. But at the end of the day, pretty much everything we do is directly or indirectly related to securing the best possible partner(s) to send our genes into the next generation. With so much effort going into this activity is… Read more »

kios
kios
8 years ago

Ton is correct that men are bitter that women can have it all; i know i certainly am. It seems grossly unfair, but there isn’t much we can do about it. Sitting back and waiting for the day when there is an extreme shortage of beta providers is no consolation either. The end result is a lonely and bitter society. Chuck is correct about the modern SMP in terms of costs. I don’t feel like busting my hump to get a woman that is equal or even slightly below, esp since women tend to come iwith baggage at my age(34).… Read more »

gregg
gregg
8 years ago

There are NO quality women, there are just women. Women are empty vessels so they can not be different form each other. There is no fundamental difference between a slut and a virgin. Both are the same. Given this, you can not “improve” women, ´cos there is nothing to be improved. She is a complete slave to sex and biology, there si no higher soul in her. You can not “enlighten” such creature – there is nothing different within her from biology what could be improved. The biggest sliut is fundamentally the same as the virgin girl. But you CAN… Read more »

Ton
Ton
8 years ago

I understand Chuck and do not fault you or other men and their reaction to the smp/ mmp. Hell I understand kios as well. I am a man with a full spectrum of emotions, experiences, strengths, shortcomings, needs, wants etc. I’ve been through the grinder, been rejected for all manner of reasoning, raped in divorce court, gone from bitterness to being joyful most days and everything in between. At the root level, my story is your story, your story is the next guys story I’ve elected to look for long term but informal relationships because of what I see and… Read more »

imnobody
8 years ago

Women do start off as virgins, so yes it is capable to get one before they became sluts, That means hitting on 18 year olds. Good luck with that. A 18-year-old virgin girl thinks that she is the gift of God to men. Only the alphaest of the alpha can apply. The relationship must be perfect, fulfill all these desires and dreams and every inconvenience is interpreted as your fault. It’s all about her and her princess fantasy. I had one of this relationships for six years when I was young with a 19-year-old girl. Give me a slut any… Read more »

Adam
Adam
8 years ago

@imnobody

Girls don’t act like that because they’re virgins. They act like that because they perceive themselves as higher value than their partner. You don’t think sluts/former sluts act like that in the same circumstance? You don’t think sluts crave the same alphaest of alpha? You don’t think sluts indulge in the same princess fantasy? The only time a slut “excuses” relationship imperfection is when she’s settling because her value has plummeted.

orion
orion
8 years ago

@ Danger You know, sacrificing your standards…. You dont know man, you dont know…. She can appear to be quality and you might be sorely mistaken. And I am not even that picky, I would take an honest slut over a serial monogamist any day of the week, but you dont get to see whether she sees YOU or just some disposable dick (and ATM, and sperm donor, and whatever) until well into a budding relationship. The result is that you have to maintain a healthy amount of distrust well after you feel it should be there, because the chances… Read more »

Danger
Danger
8 years ago

@imnobody, To quote Rollow…..Don’t wish it were easier, wish you were better. Besides, it sounds like you are limiting your options to just western women. Why not go get that 18 year old Ukrainian who is looking for a man with money? She’s bound to have far fewer c0cks under her belt, and she’s a lot more honest about her intentions than most of the western sluts. @orion, Of course she can appear quality, but that goes for ALL women. Why not filter out the old, haaggard, well-ridden one’s in your search? That is my whole point. If I’m doomed… Read more »

Ton
Ton
8 years ago

You are right Danger and I regretted using the term about 15 minutes to late because of the dismissive tone

Case
Case
8 years ago

Could just be me but seems like in the last few weeks all over the comments on the manosphere, and very much in this comment stream, there seem to be echoes of the CH post “Woman Admits To ‘Alpha Fux, Beta Bux’ Dating Strategy” where Sheryl Sandberg is quoted from a Salon interview stating, “I say in the book, date the bad boys, date the crazy boys, but do not marry them. Marry the boys who are going to change half of the diapers” and maybe a follow on would be an anonymous commentator on the article who wrote, “’if… Read more »

Not Carrie Bradshaw
Not Carrie Bradshaw
8 years ago

Quality woman….blah blah blah
It all comes down to one thing : A woman you can trust with your life or the lives of your children. Oxymoron ? Maybe but ain’t that the truth !

Michael of Charlotte
Michael of Charlotte
8 years ago

YaReally, I read your comment over at CH and of course your comments here. I suppose this is the last part of the red pill that I’m having trouble accepting. Over there, you said we had two options, depression or acceptance. So how does one get to acceptance? How do I accept the fact that at best, I’ll be marrying a slut who might think the world of me if I manage to keep my value high in her eyes? How do you ever relax? How do you not take the MGTOW route? Seriously, between your comments and this article,… Read more »

imnobody
8 years ago

@Danger (about your advice of dating foreigh women). I am an European guy and I have been living in Central America for the last 15 years (where I write now). I came here because I wanted to flee from Western women. But feminism and female entitlement have arrived here. The girl I said that she was a 19 y.o. virgin is a Central American girl. She seemed very traditional and conservative. I respected their virginity for 6 years and she dumped me and married a Frenchmen. Don’t think Latin America is a good place for meeting this mythical woman who… Read more »

Danger
Danger
8 years ago

@imnobody,

That is fine for me. I’m just as happy tapping younger poon looking for a rich guy as opposed to commiting to one.

Better to fvk a young foreign gold-digger than to commit to a western slut.

Hell, maybe it makes sense to just keep going down the third world ladder fvking the young gold-diggers.

YaReally
YaReally
8 years ago

@Michael of Charlotte “So how does one get to acceptance?” If you had a son and he did something bad, you could still love him despite his faults. You just accept that he isn’t perfect and that he’s going to make some mistakes in life, and you learn to appreciate the good things about him. If you had a dog and it pooped on the couch, you’d be annoyed with it, but you would still accept it. “How do I accept the fact that at best, I’ll be marrying a slut who might think the world of me if I… Read more »

Leo G
Leo G
8 years ago

YaReally says “but then I don’t have an unrealistic pedestalized white-pickett doting-virgin-bride 2.5 kids fantasy that a lot of guys have been brainwashed to expect in life.” Cept the virgin part, sounds like me. I am very demonstrative. Need to touch and be touched, to get positive feedback, etc. Thought that was what marriage was about. Support each other no matter what. My sons’ mother is the quite opposite. After 27 years I still have to remind myself to stay back and not hug and kiss her every moment that I am with her! I am trying to get the… Read more »

Danger
Danger
8 years ago

YaReally, I hear what you say and understand it. But I still think you limit the options. Nobody is saying that men *deserve* a doting virgin bride with 2.5 kids. They are saying that they WANT that. And there is nothing wrong with this desire. But men are getting NONE of those desires met, or doing so at a very high cost. Women, on the other hand, are getting MUCH of their desires met. The problem in some ways can be said to reside with the women, or the misandric system that supports their ability to harvest men for their… Read more »

Adam
Adam
8 years ago

Considering the costs and risks in marriage for men, the only fitting reward for a husband is his wife’s virginity.

Michael of Charlotte
Michael of Charlotte
8 years ago

@YaReally, I suppose that’s the problem I’m facing. I want children, in particular, sons. I gotta be honest, the myth of the quality girl was keeping me motivated to get in shape, to keep earning more and more and to perfect my social skills. But it simply impossible me to accept the idea that there really is a small subset of girls who fit my idea of quality that aren’t married by age 24. It’s simply foolish to even think that, I see that now. I will have to focus on your dog analogy and the one about the guy… Read more »

Clover
Clover
8 years ago

Sorry for sounding naive, but I don’t get it. I wasn’t a virgin when I met my fiance, but I’d only been in two physical relationship previously, one which I left because of ill health, one which I left for my current man, because I suddenly fell in love and realised that just getting on with a guy and finding him reasonably attractive wasn’t the same thing at all. Since then, for the last year and a half, I’ve been entiely uninterested in other men. It’s not because I’m ‘marrying up’, ’cause I’m not. I’m currently the wage earner, my… Read more »

trackback

[…] From The Myth of the Quality Woman: […]

ho
ho
7 years ago

So wait, there are NO women that didn’t ride the carousel?

trackback
7 years ago

[…] – “those women who don’t appreciate your niceness are just Damaged Women®, no quality woman would value an asshole above a real Nice […]

trackback

[…] “fuck this, I’m gonna be who I am and any girl who can’t appreciate me for me is low quality anyway.” This will probably piss you off, but this is exactly the blue pill mentality most […]

trackback
7 years ago

[…] men’s best interests. Anything less either makes them convictionless or the nebulous “low quality woman” who wont play by the old-order rules and […]

trackback
7 years ago

[…] women some mask they believe they’re wearing comes off and (if she’s a mythical “quality woman“™) she’ll excuses his inadequacies to perform to the rigorous satisfaction of her […]

trackback
6 years ago

[…] sure, game works well for picking up low self-esteem bar skanks, but I’m looking for a Quality Woman.” What’s implied isn’t necessarily incorrect; the most ridiculed, stereotypical […]

trackback
6 years ago

[…] such receptivity could actually take place without any confusion of signals with an idealized, Quality Woman woman like Mary, but it’s the atmosphere and the attitude of expecting Mary to respond to […]

trackback
6 years ago

[…] when a guy is told he’s hitting on the wrong kind of woman – they’re not the “quality” women they should be risking themselves […]

Blank
Blank
6 years ago

Quality is the agreement between what is wanted and what exists.

mike
mike
6 years ago

The premise of this article is spot on. Even after swallowing the red pill,I chose the marriage route. My wife was no “virgin” but compared to most women, in her age bracket, pretty damn chaste. Most of her past consisted of betas she had LTRs with . One Alpha pump/dump. Ironically he ended up contacting her out of the blue the first year into our marriage. But I’m more alpha than him and service her well enough he posed no threat, Overall her notch count was dingle digits. In this day and age if you can find a feminine, attractive… Read more »

trackback
6 years ago

[…] caveats apply of course – self-conscious (or not drunk enough) Quality Girlfriend® at 0:11 duly […]

trackback

[…] women seem to resent it when guys prefer dating Asian women don’t need to do it with finesse. Always aim to do with this comes a power of control in their sexy, youthful looks, such guys tend to a self-assured woman, who […]

Dan
Dan
5 years ago

“As we become a more and more connected society the indiscretions of a woman’s past will become increasingly more difficult to hide, much less temper. Whereas before, unless a woman had worked in porn, documenting her sexual and/or intimate past may have been an effort best reserved for private investigators. Now it’s as easy as reading her social media footprint archived for all to read.” I disagree completely with that statement. Modern technology, in my opinion, made everything quite easier to accomplish. Specially for women. Before the internet and smartphones, you had to actually make a real effort to court… Read more »

trackback
5 years ago

[…] into his Frame. “If a woman can’t accept me for who I am, she’s not the right (quality) woman for me” is the standard refrain. The Frame is strong, the expectation is (seemingly) […]

trackback

[…] young virgin (think farmer’s daughter type) to spend the rest of my life with. She was a good girl. We had plans for a big family in a big home in the country. The wedding and honeymoon were […]

trackback

[…] beautiful young virgin (think farmer’s daughter type) to spend the rest of my life with. She was a good girl. We had plans for a big family in a big home in the country. The wedding and honeymoon were […]

trackback

[…] Even for guys employing Game and dating non-exclusively, there at some point comes a ‘special’ One girl that embodies a deeply held Blue Pill idealism about the ‘perfect girl’ for him. Usually this girl meets the criteria for what he considers his ‘Genetic Celebrity‘, but as men mature they tend to modify this ideal based on what their conditioning has taught them qualifies as a ‘Quality Woman‘. […]

Varun
Varun
4 years ago

The last line really shook me. Damn. I’m new to TRP, 24.. but damn. So much conditioning to let go of.

trackback

[…] Most women entering their Epiphany Phase are expressly looking for a Beta to take care of them now that the Party Years are coming to an end for her. They’re (ostensibly) done with the Bad Boys (something they had to ‘grow out of’) and now want to do things ‘the right way’. This, of course, suits a Beta in Waiting just fine because his Blue Pill conditioning has prepared him by expecting him to ‘do things the right way’ and to believe any woman wanting to do the same must be a Quality Woman. […]

trackback

[…] a persistent doubt about a man’s quality, the Blue Pill instills in men a doubt about “quality” women’s scarcity and his capacity to find and maintain a ‘soul […]

Natronita Leinad
4 years ago

Buyer beware is definitely the phrase to use, for me the answer has been to not be a buyer at all, but just a renter.

If it flies, floats, or fucks it’s cheaper to rent.

trackback

[…] Even for guys employing Game and dating non-exclusively, there at some point comes a ‘special’ One girl that embodies a deeply held Blue Pill idealism about the ‘perfect girl’ for him. Usually this girl meets the criteria for what he considers his ‘Genetic Celebrity‘, but as men mature they tend to modify this ideal based on what their conditioning has taught them qualifies as a ‘Quality Woman‘. […]

trackback

[…] to “waste” on flings that would won’t lead to commitment, so she re-invents herself as a “quality woman” in the hope of convincing you that she is LTR/ marriage […]

trackback

[…] Most women entering their Epiphany Phase are expressly looking for a Beta to take care of them now that the Party Years are coming to an end for her. They’re (ostensibly) done with the Bad Boys (something they had to ‘grow out of’) and now want to do things ‘the right way’. This, of course, suits a Beta in Waiting just fine because his Blue Pill conditioning has prepared him by expecting him to ‘do things the right way’ and to believe any woman wanting to do the same must be a Quality Woman. […]

trackback

[…] it seems she’s had an epiphany, or a moment of clarity. “Wow, this one’s really special, ‘high quality’, and seems to get it.” That is, so long as it suits her conditions to do so. When it […]

trackback

[…] viscerally illustrated for him. It’s the guys who go into denial, who fall back on the “Quality Woman” rationale and get back on the white horse who are truly […]

trackback

[…] Red Pill guys. You can still live in Blue Pill happiness and harmony with a loving unicorn ‘Quality‘ woman by following these 5 simple steps to make yourself into the man women want you to […]

And That Is The Very Truth
And That Is The Very Truth
4 years ago

Well unfortunately with many women sleeping around with different men all the time which they will never be able to commit to just only one man. No quality women anywhere these days.

trackback

[…] what they do and who they are is ‘enough’ – or should be enough for any girl who’s of a quality to appreciate their […]

trackback

[…] like that‘ critics, and a lot of these are, of course, women. But there are also the ‘Quality Woman‘ seekers who want to believe that their unicorn woman wouldn’t be as Hypergamous as […]

trackback

[…] thing” and getting married or committed was something that would be characteristic of their quality woman into a long term relationship with […]

trackback

[…] thing” and getting married or committed was something that would be characteristic of their quality woman into a long term relationship with […]

dickbeninya
2 years ago

Truth gut punch

trackback

[…] este ideal según lo que su propio condicionamiento les ha enseñado a como calificar una “Mujer de Calidad” (en […]

trackback

[…] church leaders. Dr. Piper also used this one too. It’s really the Christian version of the Quality Woman […]

trackback

[…] Rational Male: Quality Women (March 19, […]

trackback
2 years ago

[…] all women are like that, you need to go places where the quality women […]

trackback

[…] her circumstances. She married the Beta in Waiting, who’s overjoyed that he’s finally found his Quality Woman who appreciates his type. He’s thanking God for bringing him a woman who tells him “I’m done […]

164
0
Would love your thoughts, please comment.x
()
x
%d bloggers like this: