Are Men Adapting to the New Sexual Marketplace?

I revisited the topic of Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW) last Saturday on Rule Zero. I don’t like rehashing old debates I’ve learned will ultimately go nowhere. You simply wont reach most people who don’t want to be reached. Once they’ve had some experiential lessons in life, reinforced it with the tribalistic need to affirm the beliefs derived from that experience and then invest their egos in them it becomes kind of pointless. I’m not saying just give up on people, far from it, but do understand what you’re up against. This is why I say unplugging men from the Matrix is dirty work, and a lot like triage. Know what’s worth expending energy for.

Most men, and nearly all women, don’t form a belief set based on multiple, independently funded, peer reviewed studies or statistical analyses. We go with experience first and then modify it from there.

I did a bit of preparation for this talk. My schedule last Saturday only permitted me an hour so I wanted to be succinct and throw out at least something new to the conversation. There’s a lot of tribalism in the Manosphere today and it’s no surprise that MGTOW as a tribe in growing – but likely not for the reasons most MGTOW would be willing to admit. MGTOW is becoming atomized and commercialized in the same manner as I predicted the Red Pill would (and has) last year.

What that means is MGTOW is rapidly becoming the same commercial vehicle for grifters that the Red Pill was just a year and a half ago. Life Coaches, Relationship Experts, Fitness Gurus, even Christian men’s ministry pastors are all looking online to find out ‘where have all the men gone?’ When men were found in the Red Pill this is where the grifters would coalesce. Thus, you had every ‘brand-of-me’ self-improvement hack calling himself “red pill”. A few of them still do. A few of them read verbatim from my book(s) and plagiarize it as their own. But more now I see these same grifters referring to themselves as MGTOW without realizing (or even caring) what it really means to men.

MGTOW is the new ‘brand’ that lifestyle ‘coaches’ are adding to their twitter profiles and YouTube channel About pages. They see the potential for growth by association. Even if they get owned in their comments and feeds, adding the tag MGTOW will draw clicks. A few of these ‘coaches’ had a familiarity with the tribe and decided to finally commit in the hopes that it would boost views, others are former ‘power-of-positivity‘ life-coaches who slide into MGTOW because the definition of what makes a man “go his own way” is so loose now that it can align with virtually anything the guy had written about before his new affiliation.

It’s a real short step from “Make yourself your Mental Point of Origin” to “Make yourself #1 in your life” and then to “Go your own way.” I’ve had at least four “dating experts” (one female) claim Mental Point of Origin was their own idea in their subscriber emails as recently as August. Grifters used the Red Pill and are now using MGTOW to legitimize their brands today. In 2015 the MRAs decided to appropriate the Red Pill as their own brand to name a feminist’s “journey of self-discovery” movie The Red Pill. This appropriation is continuing with MGTOW now.

As I said on the Red Man Group back in May, the Red Pill is going to have a real PR problem in the coming year. Everything I predicted in my State of the Manosphere address a year ago has come to pass and I predict it will only intensify in the 2020 election cycle. The Gender War needs a convenient, easy-to-hate villain to point to in order to reinforce the Future is Female narrative.

Very soon MGTOW will have the same PR problem. And once the next Eliot Rodger or Alex Minasian incident occurs you’ll see these grifters scatter from MGTOW like roaches when the lights come on. When there are dead women on the sidewalk somewhere, and the MSM is using terms like ‘MGTOW’, ‘Incel’ and ‘radicalization’ that is when all the ‘tribes’ of the Manosphere will throw each other under the bus. That’s when you’ll know who was ‘playing MGTOW’ for likes.


One thing this re-debate of MGTOW has made me reconsider is whether men are adapting to the new realities of the sexual marketplace or just looking to make their necessities a virtue. At its simplest MGTOW is men refusing to make women the measure of their lives, and then molding their lives to their own plan. This pairs nicely with virtually every pet ideology and ‘positivity’ grift in the ‘sphere today. Even Tradcons will agree with MGTOW if it means “Be the best man you can be“. It agrees with Mental Point of Origin. It agrees with Roissy – “You shall make your mission, not your woman, your priority.” It agrees with “Women should only ever be a complement to a man’s life, never the focus of it.

If that was all there was to MGTOW it would simply be Red Pill. What “MGTOW” life-coach grifters don’t realize is that MGOTW is a derivative of the Red Pill. I’ve always argued that once a guy becomes Red Pill aware he cannot help but live in some different fashion. Even the guys who go into complete denial can’t unsee the truths of intersexual dynamics. It’s what you actually do with that new awareness that sets apart Red Pill praxeology from MGTOW in practice. There’s more to MGTOW than just refusing to make women the measure of a man’s life – it’s also deciding what actually is deference to women. And that’s where it becomes highly subjective.

In my last post I outlined how women were upset there weren’t enough ‘eligible‘ men to marry in the current (westernized) sexual marketplace (SMP) today. Of course the two most common responses were either:

  • Women are the victims of the SMP they created. Women’s solipsistic, socially enabled entitlements to an ‘economically attractive’ man (a man who exceeds her own productivity by 58%) only proves the point that women’s social media bloated egos have made them unrealistic tyrants. Now their beliefs and actions have come home to roost.
  • This is proof-positive that MGTOW is working! Finally women are waking up to the realities of their beliefs and actions. If enough guys abandon the SMP altogether then women will be forced to come back to reality and choose men based on other criteria than ‘economic attractiveness’.

One point I struggled to make on last week’s show was that I wondered if MGTOW believed that, from an evolved perspective, men and women are better together than they are apart. Unfortunately, I didn’t have time to pursue that question in depth; do MGTOW largely believe that, if social circumstances were different, men and women evolved to be complements to the other and the best social outcome would be for the sexes to be together rather than segregated?

For the last 60 years feminism has effectively driven a wedge between men and women. The Gender War of today exists because of a systematic segregation between men and women (don’t @me with the cultural marxism/’evil juice’ shit for the moment). Honestly, I’m sick of reading about how negative it is to merely point out the realities of this ‘gender cold war’ by Success Porn grifters, but is not MGTOW an adaptation to this segregation? Is not MGTOW an exacerbation of this segregation. When I read mantras like ‘Dogs, Dudes and Dolls’ it sounds an awful lot like ‘Cats, Girlfriends and Vibrators’.

Is MGTOW an adaptation to the conditions in a sexual marketplace that was (and still is) contrived by feminism/gynocentrism?

The following quote is from a long time commenter and friend Deti. This was from a larger discussion that began here if you want to get some context. Sorry guys, I just don’t have the space to repost the whole thread, but I don’t want this to get lost. Hopefully, it will inspire further discussion in this post’s comments:

I read Novaseeker as saying in his comments on this post, that women have adapted within this particular milieu. In other words, women noted the changes and have adapted to them. It helps that the changes were geared to them and prepared with them in mind. But women have adapted, and men have not.

About 100 years ago, it was all geared toward men and the sexual and marriage marketplaces were prepared with men in mind. They were prepared to advantage men and disadvantage women. Women responded to and lived within that milieu in a number of ways.

Using soft power, manipulation, deceit, subterfuge, behind the scenes machinations. Most women were more or less OK with marrying an OK guy, having OK sex, and living an OK life.

Of course, sometimes women cheated on the downlow. Sometimes women cuckolded husbands. I mean real actual traditional definition of cuckolding, which is a married woman getting pregnant by an Alpha and passing the child(ren) off as the Beta Husband’s. There’s no way to know how often that happened, but it wasn’t really rare – Maybe anywhere from 5 to 20% of children then weren’t fathered by their bio-moms’ husbands. In rare cases, not marrying and becoming spinsters, living as bohemians or as “favorite cousins” or “favorite aunts” with male relatives, working as teachers or seamstresses or some other job, and being live in nanny/maid. In rare cases, divorcing and living off family money or a husband’s alimony money. Living as widows and not remarrying.

The point is that women learned how to adapt. There are a lot of reasons for that, but they did adapt.

The main responses men have used today to adapt to changing circumstances have been:

  1. Game/PUA/Seduction – Use the changes to men’s advantage and go for easy sex and the bachelor lifestyle.
  2. MRA – Fighting the changes to advocate for either equalizing the laws or rolling them back to a return to Marriage 1.0 and pre-sexual revolution status.
  3. MGTOW – Check out of the new system, refuse to support or participate in it, and eschew relationships with women to varying degrees.

About, oh, 20 years in, I think we can safely say that option 2) is dead in the water and has been for some time. About the only real reforms here are that divorce and family laws are slowly, very, very slowly, moving toward 50/50 residential custody and away from alimony (except in the case of longer term marriages with breadwinner spouse/dependent nonemployed wife). Unless you have been married more than 20 years and support a housewife, you probably will not be paying alimony except for temporarily. Thats about the entire sum and substance of how “equal” it’s going to get between men and women.

That leaves 1) Game; and (3) MGTOW.

It’s hard to tell what will come out of this. I think we can say:

• Marriage 1.0 is dead and we are never going back to it for at least 2 more generations. If you think you’re going to have a “traditional marriage” where you don’t have to do much to maintain it or you can let up on your attractiveness levels, think again. Because that is not going to happen. If you’re going to marry a woman, you need to improve your attractiveness, marry a woman who is not financially dependent on you, and cultivate your own life separate and apart from her. You need a contingency plan in the event the marriage goes south. And with all that, you need to consider whether you want to risk bringing kids into the mix. You absolutely need a prenuptial agreement, even if it gets judicially torn up or modified later.

The bottom line is, people are still marrying, it’s just that it’s all being pushed out later and later, and people are staying single longer and spending less time married. Many women are meeting the men they eventually marry in their early to mid 20s, and then marrying in their late 20s and early 30s. That’s a paradigm that’s increasing in frequency; this idea of long term dating and engagements lasting 2 to 5 years while both the man and woman establish their careers.

If you want long term relationships you should consider marriage alternatives like living together, or being exclusive while living apart. You absolutely must avoid at all costs these polyamory/polygyny situations, and open marriages. You absolutely must avoid women who want to continue AF’ing it even after they marry. That must be an absolute no go, not an option, ever.

• Men have to improve and increase their sexual attractiveness to create, maintain, and sustain relationships with women. You can’t let up here. That’s IF you want relationships with women.

• More and more men will go pure MGTOW and will severely minimize if not eliminate their relationships with women. For a growing number of men, this option is going to be the best one, because (a) they did the work and still couldn’t attract women; or (b) they don’t want to do the work and it’s easier to stay as is than to try.

For most men, avoiding women entirely, except for paying hookers, is a no go. The thirst is that strong. The male sex drive is that potent. Most men want to have some contact with women, even if it’s just random hookups now and again. And the only way to do that is to make yourself as sexually attractive as possible. That just is so. Women are the ones who pick sex partners, and they have no problem with sharing attractive men with other women. So if you want sex partners, you have to make yourself sexually attractive. And you have to know male and female sexual nature, so that you know what you’re getting into, you know what you’re seeing, you know what women are doing, and you know what women really mean when they talk.

For men, improving one’s own attractiveness increases one’s power in the market. It increases his ability to control some of the selection process. It gives him an abundance mentality. It gives him the power to walk away from situations that disadvantage him. It gives him the ability to tell women “no” and to reject women who cannot or will not give him what he wants and needs.

On the other hand, going your own way can also increase your power in the market. It maximizes your control over your own life. It sharply reduces your responsibilities to others, and increases your opportunities. It frees up your resources to expend the way you want. Sharp reductions in responsibility means a sharp reduction in the needed resources for day to day living, meaning you can work less and increase your leisure time.

I think that more and more men will go pure MGTOW, which is essentially “make the best of a tough situation, be single, and don’t have a family. At least that’s better than getting divorce raped and it’s less work than going to the gym, getting in shape, and eating clean. This way I can eat what I want and work 30 hours a week, and live by myself in my apartment”. It’s kind of similar to women 100 years ago, where the path of least resistance was for Bertha BigGirl, Martha Dumptruck, and Plain Jane to “find a decent, OK man to support me, and probably have at least 3 of his kids. At least it’s better than living with Mom until she dies, and then having to live with my brother and his wife, and taking care of their kids.” And similar to the spinster, the MGTOW will be low status, or at least perceived as low status. But for the spinster and the MGTOW, their lifestyles will be at least better than whatever else they could have gotten.

Guys, Nova is absolutely correct in that men by and large are not adapting.

I think that what’s going on is that many men are saying “want to stay the same, don’t want to do a lot of work, but I still want women to be attracted to me and to be able to date a lot and eventually get married and have a family like (a) mom and dad had when I was growing up; or (b) like I didn’t get to have growing up.” Well, you can’t have that, at least not without working for it. If you want something you’re going to have to work for it. If you want women and sex, you’re going to have to make yourself attractive to women. And the way you’re going to do that, the only way to do that, is to stand out. And the way you stand out is by improving every area of your life – your job, your body, your finances, your lifestyle, your hobbies, your social acumen, and everything else that involves you going through your life.

The funny thing is that when a man stops caring so much about it, forgets about women, and sets about improving his life, he starts attracting women.

That’s the current state of things, I think.

I don’t disagree that we’re presently at a turning point in intersexual relations. After the advent of unilaterally female controlled birth control and the Sexual Revolution that followed the upheaval in how men and women come together and relate was inevitable. Now that we’re 50 odd years past that point we’re figuring out how reproduction, love, marriage, and something as simple as boy-meets-girl is going to look for future generations. The internet and a social media acculturation on a global scale has seen to it that it will likely never look like it did under the old social contract. There’s a theory that post-agrarian societies experienced a similar shift in intersexual dynamics in our ancestral past. Socially enforced monogamy was the obvious intersexual shift.

Right now we’re seeing a similar shift in intersexual relations. Is it simply better for men and women to live segregated lives? I don’t believe so, but it seems like a larger cultural narrative believes it’s time for both men and women to go their own ways. Until one side concedes, fuck any notion of evolved complementarity is the narrative I guess.

I do disagree with Deti in that I think men are adapting. They always have. It’s that the adaptation is counter to what we might hope is the natural order between men and women.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

560 comments on “Are Men Adapting to the New Sexual Marketplace?

  1. I submit the idea that:

    Men have adapted, and are on a course of further adaptation.
    MRA, PUA, and MGTOW are not actually the adaptations per se, but movements created as a result of the adaptation. In other words, these 3 movements are just a handful of the many manifestations of the male adaptation.
    The real adaptation, and the best hope for men to preserve themselves, is a shift in how men perceive both women and major societal institutions.
    The key driver here, is men becoming increasingly likely to question the motivations of both women and societal institutions, with the implication that there is a cycle of decreasing trust gained with each examination.

  2. Really great stuff Deti.

    There’s a certain amount of self psychology or stoicism or something that a man has to go through in order to become his own mental point of origin. Part of it is acceptance of the reality of your own situation.

  3. It would be interesting to see where this is all going. As if to read about it in a history book….Feminism and the rise and fall of humanity (1850 – 2100).

    “This is proof-positive that MGTOW is working” Working? MGTOW is its own end. It is not a movement. It will not convince women of anything.

  4. @redlight: exactly. Not grand, well defined and monolithic movements, but minor changes in how men conduct themselves.

    Each little change is a conscious decision, and each change adds to the total shift. All these choices find their root in continually shifting perception.

    Every expensive dinner aborted in lieu of a cheap coffee or bar date has its roots in a man understanding womens’ motivation differently.

    The more men mentally redefine women as self-interested actors, the less likely they are to treat them in ways that only benefit the women.

    The more men view societal institutions as cynical manipulations of their trust, the less support men will extend to them.

  5. @Incubus_Rising

    Rollo isn’t trying to segregate and distill only one approved way to be a male.

    He’s attempting, and I believe he’s been succeeding, to take all knowledge of inter/intrasexual dynamics and unite it through the process of Integration.

    Therefore, when he “talks shit” about another person, it’s generally pointing out the flaws in their approach that, when followed; lead one’s understanding away from the integrated approach.

    They can discuss the integrated approach. But more than likely, the challenger will have his ego bruised.


    Because the challenger can make the error of reserving the right to patent his own flavor of philosophy as an existential buffer.

    And that type of reaction is very different from the underhanded tactic of trying to provoke someone to anger so as to discredit them. Though they tend to be the bread and butter for an opportunist hack.

    An integrated knowledgebase of male and female behavior includes both, how to get one or the other to fuck, and also how to get them to do everything else that has to do with fucking.

    Which, lucky enough, is every fucking thing.

    Everything is either a turn on, turn off, a buffer, or a chronicle of performance.

    Then that abstract concept is studied in action out in the field.

    However, deviations in the approach(again), where Integration of all strategies of all the world’s beings in sex is the goal; Can expect to be as heavily scrutinized as any singular success or failure on the part of anyone trying any of this.

    Which happens to be everyone.

    Got it?

    P.S. How many cows have you farmed?

  6. Rollo:

    I disagree that my comment started the discussion on which you based your post. Novaseeker’s superb comment here

    started this discussion.

    That was followed up with Morpheus’ comment here

    it started with a discussion of whether men were marriageable; and whether women were justified in complaining that “there are no men worth marrying”. And that’s because most men aren’t worth marrying. Most men aren’t ready for marriage, aren’t marriageable, don’t have what it takes to be married, and don’t have anything most women want.

    For the purposes of this discussion, it does not matter that most women aren’t worth marrying, aren’t ready for marriage, aren’t marriageable, don’t have what it takes to be married, and that the only things most of them have that are worth anything are warm wet holes you might get to borrow once a month if you’re lucky.

    Who cares about that if you’re a man who can’t get one of them anyway, and even if you could get one of them you wouldn’t want to keep them? What matters is that YOU are up shit creek without a paddle. What matters is that YOU have work to do to fix the problems and figure out what you want.

    We used to talk about Game and self improvement here because that’s what men needed. And if we did the work, the pussy would come. And if the pussy doesn’t come, then we’ve still self improved.

    You’ve lost weight, gotten better clothes, fixed the hairfuck, and lift weights? Still can’t get pussy? Well, look at it this way: You look better. You feel better. You will live a longer, healthier life. You will get sick less. You will not need to go to all kinds of doctors when you get older. You will not spend half your life and half your money on medical expenses. You are more attractive, and attractive people get better jobs, are treated better at those jobs, and are overall treated better going through life.

    You’ve fixed your spergy tendencies, learned how to talk to people, and learned how to cold approach women? Still can’t get pussy? Look at it this way. You will work better and more efficiently. More people will like you. You will get better jobs. More people at work will like and respect you. You’ll make more money in less time. People will gravitate to you. (And here’s a secret: Some of those people who gravitate to you will be women, and some of those women will get sexually interested in you.) You’re more persuasive and magnetic, and can more often get more of what you want from your interactions with others.

    You want to get married but can’t find a wife? Look at it this way. You don’t have to support a wife or kids. You can spend your money on what you want. You can retire early. You answer to no one. You work when you want, where you want, as much or as little as you want. You vacation where you want, with whom you want. Your social life is not dependent on a wife or children. You can live on a quarter of what the average married man needs. You don’t NEED to do ANYTHING.

    You’ve fixed your attitudes toward women and learned about them, learned Game, but still can’t get pussy? Look at it this way. Women are never going to be able to use you, exploit you, or take advantage of you. You used to be in the dark about what you were seeing, and about what women are saying. You’re not in the dark anymore. You have stepped out of the darkness and into the wondrous light. You now know exactly what you’re seeing, and you can mentally translate what women are saying. You can use this knowledge to your advantage in work, in life, in interpersonal interactions. You can use it to get other things you want: Better jobs, social opportunities, economic deals and advantages, behind the scenes interactions and deals. You are more persuasive and can more often get more of what you want from your interactions with others.

    Food for thought.

  7. “Just as I accepted it when I did all I could do to go to The Big City”

    the big city is a toilet…. but, did you REALLY do ALL you could?

    “and a sweet job deal did not come my way.”

    sweet deals generally don’t just appear. did you try gaming the ugly daughter of a top firm’s founding partner in order to make contacts? i know that kind of info wasn’t around back then, but you know what i mean

    “I kept trying and reaching diminishing returns. It didn’t work out the way I wanted it to. I did all I could, and I could not get a Plan A situation. Plan A did not work out. That was just reality. So I went to Plan B, and it turned out Plan B should have been Plan A all along.”

    really? “should have” sounds like post-rationalization girl talk. you wouldn’t move to big coast big law city for big firm associate job right now?

    “I know. I get it. Facing a life without women is very difficult. A bitter pill to swallow. Maybe a whole hell of a lot more bitter than being unattractive to coastal BigLaw.”

    who fucking said you are unattractive to coastal biglaw. when is that last time you made a push to get into the room with people who make hiring decisions? when was the last time you did a deep dive on the actual hiring conditions of big firms in your choice cities? are you biased against yourself?

    “And it’s easy for me to say, being married, and being really, really fortunate. Because, guys, the only reasons I am still married are some decently thrown together Game, and a whole hell of a lot of luck.”

    luck won’t keep you married. luck is when you happen to strike up a convo with a woman at the airport whose flight was delayed and just happens to know somebody at big city law firm who specializes in your very thing and is always looking for good people who add value….

    not trying to get too personal or cross any boundaries, but you put it out there and lots of people read you over the years and respect you and i’m just wondering if maybe you lost some respect for yourself because if you want coastal big law then coastal big law it shall be

    i am in big city law school library sometimes. i see your competition…. lol. i have to physically be there to use terminals with those law database subscriptions, but the sluts all have personal laptop access because they are students…

    so the only reason they hanging in the shitty library pretending to study is… lol. the building has lots of glass and refelctions and i see i get fucking eye humped everytime i get up lol

    i wouldn’t touch that lawyercunt no matter what though. more like the girls working at the snack bar lol

    and the dudes, if you can call them that lol… you really think these guys are deserving of some shit you’re not? lol

    the city ain’t shit. everybody in lawyer college is fronting their asses off. they all know that they will be debt slaves no matter what they do lol i heard it from their own mouths. only conerned with connections, future jobs, status, paycheck… these are not people who have any interest or understanding of power. fucking slaves all of them

    my point is, if you want it, take it

  8. FLeezer

    My job search story was to illustrate a point. I could not get a coastal BigLaw job. I was also operating within practical constraints like time, space, and the need to get out of school and start earning money, supporting myself, and living the life I had worked so hard for. I needed a plan to do that. Plan A didn’t work out. I had to change the plan, so I did.

    To analogize: I can’t attract a woman I’m sufficiently attracted to, despite my maxing out my improvement. OK. Plan A was to get a long term relationship with a sufficiently attractive woman. Plan A isn’t working out. So I need a Plan B. What are my options? Try some PUA with Plain Janes in between boyfriends? Short term relationships here and there, catch as catch can? Don’t date women at all because not worth it, I really can’t do PUA, or because STRs aren’t my speed? Go on SeekingArrangement and get a sugar baby? Pay hookers?

    The point is that you solve the problem. The point is that you select from available alternatives to find the one that works for you in light of current conditions on the ground. The point is that you fix it. The point is that you take care of it so that you live the best life you can, for you. If Plan A didn’t pan out, then you go to Plan B. If Plan B tanks, you go to Plan C. And so on.

    The point is not only that you solve the problem, it’s that YOU – not someone else, not “society”, not Vox Day, not a woman – solve the problem. You solve the problem for YOU. When you do it yourself, it’s solved the way you want it. The plan looks the way you want it. The situation and circumstances look and work more or less the way you want, with items and things you want.

    And not only do you get the benefit of you solving it the way you want, you now know that you can do it for yourself. So that when the next situation arises, you know that you can take care of it yourself.

  9. This was also my problem with women. I had a problem. I was in Plan A: A marriage to a woman where I’m not getting the sex or respect I want.

    This is a problem. It’s a problem for me. Something’s not working right. This isn’t working for me. Plan A has turned out to be a problem.

    I need a solution. Where am I going to find a solution? I have spent years bitching and complaining about this problem, and that hasn’t solved it. I’ve asked other people, they havent’ solved it. I asked my wife, she didn’t solve it. I asked the church, they didn’t solve it.

    I stumbled onto the manosphere where I read stories of men who had lived, and were living, lives almost exactly like mine. I read about how they solved their problems. I read how they had been doing everything wrong – like me – and that they started doing things differently, and it solved their problems.

    So I started doing more or less what those men were doing or had done. Hell, I had tried everything else and that had not worked. I still had a problem.

    And the manosphere, Game, Red Pill, solved the problem.

    Plan A didn’t work. I needed a Plan B. I finally found one that worked. I needed help with it, from other men, who talked with me and showed me and kicked my ass and held me accountable. And it solved my problem.

    If it stops working, I’ll look for another solution. But right now, it’s working.

    Problem? Find a solution, one that works for you.

  10. @Yollo:

    “P.S. How many cows have you farmed?”

    I do not spend my life squatting day and night in the comments section, hence I do not understand the euphemisms used here.

    “He’s attempting, and I believe he’s been succeeding, to take all knowledge of inter/intrasexual dynamics and unite it through the process of Integration.”

    I disagree. His past actions of going along with spergs and engaging in deliberate smear campaigns against RSD, Roosh, Incels, MGTOWs and MRAs using RMG as a platform, show otherwise. And now he finds himself as a target of a vicious smear campaign.

    I am not part of any of these groups. In fact the thing I liked the most about this blog was “there were no prescriptions” as to what men do with this knowledge. But things have changed here now.

  11. No prescriptions means that you have to figure out for yourself how to apply the information in your own life.

    It doesn’t mean we stop calling out bullshit.

  12. “It doesn’t mean we stop calling out bullshit.”

    Calling an entire group of people as “doll fuckers” is how you confront bullshit?

    Nice, keep going.

  13. Safe spaces.

    It’s a decidedly feminine thought process that says no one can be corrected , as any old thing is just as good as any other thing. The gynocracy has been doing heavy squats evidently.

    I’m more partial to the thoughts laid down by deti and nova. I’m still trying to get my head around brother Morpheus. The reaction has been I interesting and informative, and I spend time here to learn.

    As one of the dick.swinging boomer fucks,😂 I think men passing on what they have learned is valuable and not particularly prescriptive. Woman cannot instruct men about manhood, so what’s left?

  14. ” doll fuckers ” is hilarious.

    Last year we had a big discussion about sex dolls and virtual sex. None of that is an answer to anything seriously.

  15. Some of us are adapting. But this has always been the way as most men are sheep and pussies. They’d rather whine and complain. Perhaps it’s that same adaptability and a powerful orientation towards life that chicks find attractive which makes top 20% men high value? Gosh, who knows?

    Here’s a POV the lot of you here could benefit from. What’s it like for the women? I wonder how men would feel if they bore the physical burden and risks of reproduction? I wonder how men would feel if they’d been living in a matriarchy, and finally found a way out? We talk about men and women being complementary, but who’s getting the better part of the bargain?

    I see so many young women now who are so energized and success oriented and ambitious and seemingly happy and productive in the workplace. Not so much the men though.

    My journey through the wilderness of waking up to the reality of intersexual relations was quite painful. Sure, I fell into a MGTOW hole for about 15 minutes, but then I realized I wasn’t a pussy or a fucktard. I mean, treating women like they are radioactive is juvenile idiocy. Making a lifestyle out of denying your sexual nature is pathetic, not admirable.

    Funniest? When MGTOWs preen about like they are superior cuz “women don’t run their lives”, lol. Oh really? I don’t run my life around fucking women or avoiding them. No more than I run my life around eating or making money or doing the many things I need and want to do.

    What I really had to face ultimately is that I had given up on getting what I wanted sexually. I gave up on being powerful with women. The Red Pill, and specifically YaReally confronted my BS on that count. In fact, ANY MAN CAN LEARN TO GAME AND VASTLY IMPROVE HIS OUTCOMES WITH WOMEN. Get it you fucking pussies – I took on game in my early 50s and now i rotate 20yo subs in and out of my life. Hotties. I’m 57, 5’8″ and still 15 lbs overweight, lol

    I’m balding. I’m wrecked by cptsd. I’m not rich by any means. I’m good looking in a certain way for sure, but that is not why or how I get laid. I get laid because I understand at the most basic level that women want to be fucked. And that i’m a guy who can do it. If not with her, then with another girl. For me, every hot girl on earth is fuckable. Fyi, that’s not true in a literal sense but as a way of seeing the world for a man, it’s incredibly powerful. I ran into a movie star not to long ago and tried hard to pick her up and almost did. The logistics were bad, her mom was around, lol. Guess what? Actresses want to be fucked too.

    I ran out of excuses. YaReally did a number on mr here, back in the day and I had to get that the Red Pill is an inside job most of all. If you are still angry with women, you have not found your own core and MPO. You are stuck. If you are MGTOW, you are a failed man and should be embarrassed, not embrace it as a lifestyle. But I get it, quitting is a habit. Losers love to “rage quit” as though that’s some kind of consolation.

    Fyi, I don’t see myself as a PUA at all. My game is adapted to my life and skills. I don’t got out and “sarge”. I just deal with women intelligently. I understand them. I even like them – shocker, lol. I also have real empathy for their lot in life. My old HB9 got pregnant by a married guy and has a newborn now, alone. Fyi, he did it against her will in the sense that she didn’t give him permission to cum inside of her. Good news is he’s a wealthy NYC lawyer so he’s on the hook for 10k a month for the next 18 years as he’s required to provide for his bastard son in the lifestyle his other children live.

    Some of you would see that as unfair. No, ya wanna know what’s unfair? Getting a woman pregnant against her will. I’m still friends with her, the romance is over for us for a while but we became so close emotionally. And I see up close and in person what it’s like to be a single mother to an infant child. – it’s horrible. She’s exhausted and has nobody to share the day to day burden with. It’s ruined her life in a very real way, and it’s taxing her nonstop.

    She’s very clear I’m not into playing daddy, fyi, but rather, I’m here to support her as single mother who didn’t abort her baby (i’m prolife) I’m playing uncle. We tried to have sex recently and we both just weren’t interested, lol. It was a funny moment. My point? I understand women and have compassion for them. Hint: This is another reason I get laid, you women-hating jackasses. If you hate women and fear them, which is the basis of MGTOW, don’t be shocked if women don’t want to hang out with you. I really appreciate women in fact, I find them very interesting.

    I’m seeing the new HB9, 19yo this weekend. She gets wet just from me texting her… She craves me. You guys, keep on commenting here and spouting horseshit and mentally masturbating though. Particularly you MGTOWs, it’s a habit that is hard to break once engaged in. I mean what a payoff – you get to be a victim and hero struggling against great forces in your little LARPing MGTOW fantasy-world. Just know that’s all more buffering and ego-compensating nonsense.

    Carry on.

  16. The more I read about MGTOW the more I see it as a total cop out—giving some fancy name to basically giving up.

    IF you want to live in monk mode join a monastic order and devote yourself to that cause. But suggesting that as a MAN you want to give up women the way one gives up smoking or bacon or sugary drinks isn’t a deliberate lifestyle choice, it’s simply admitting you’ve run out of real options, lack game and don’t want to play anymore.

  17. Women seem to have a fundamentally transactional view of sex, judging by how readily they will throw the term “used for sex” around. That expression implies they weren’t reimbursed enough for providing sex. Yet even if a woman has a desire sex with an Alpha and he ghosts her, she will be complaining about how he “used her for sex”. This implies that whenever a woman has sex with a man, in the back of her mind is “what am I getting for this?”

  18. Chris

    It’s not complicated and in most cases women aren’t looking for material. Many look for emotional and intimate contact/connection, and when they have sex and the expected connection doesn’t materialize, some feels used.

    I don’t think many men get the idea of ” used ” the way women mean it. More communication difficulty.

    Not every girl having sex is looking for a transaction in the way you’re stating. But quite a few are smart enough to turn the tables and make unsatisfactory sex into transactional sex.

  19. @scribblerg

    Reading that comment was incredibly entertaining. You started off with “all the mgtows are pussy sheeps, and I am the red pill!!!” and somehow ended up white knighting for some random chick that was too retarded to take precautions for like 4 paragraphs.

    Very impressive transition

  20. I think Ollie’s comment about we are seeing the transitive effects of men adapting through different movements. I don’t think we are seeing the result. It’s more like different groups of men are A/B testing the best way forward with women and relationships.

    On the relationship front, marriage is going to be dead in the next generation or 2 if something doesn’t change.

    On the sex side, Rollo is also probably right that we’re going to move into the sugar baby age, if nothing changes in the next generation or 2.

    Neither of these outcomes are going to be healthy for Western society so I expect nature to throw us a curve ball at some point. Maybe massive war, collapse of the economy, etc. Something is needed to make men and women want to cooperate again.

    And I know alot of the older posters here don’t want to believe it but the 24-32 year old dating pool is filled with Veruca salts. Half these women were in grade school or middle school when social media became a thing. That 24 year old you want to date? Oh she’s been on Instagram since she was 15 and has 35k followers sending her a couple hundred DMs offering dick, daily. The dating apps took this fiery narcissism and through gasoline on it. And yes, every now and then there is still a kind girl out there but they are rare and incredibly shy/introverted. You really have to look to find them.

    I still date and I do love getting laid. I’m just having a harder and harder time finding women interesting enough to actually be interested in. As I’ve “improved” myself as everyone here suggests I find women lack anything interesting to me but sex these days. It’s like literally the only function they can fulfill. Hilariously, at this point it’s probably better to pay for sex and buy a dog than be in another relationship.

  21. The cringe is strong in Scribblerg’s post:

    “I also have real empathy for their lot in life. My old HB9 got pregnant by a married guy and has a newborn now, alone. Fyi, he did it against her will in the sense that she didn’t give him permission to cum inside of her. Good news is he’s a wealthy NYC lawyer so he’s on the hook for 10k a month for the next 18 years as he’s required to provide for his bastard son in the lifestyle his other children live.”

    Woman has unprotected sex with a man during her ovulation and gets pregnant. She still says it’s the man’s fault and she has zero responsibility for it. Scribb buys it. He even buys her sad sack story of “oh, I didn’t want him to get me pregnant, even though I was having unprotected sex with him during my ovulation”. Isn’t one of the principles of the Red Pill to “watch what she does, not what she says”?

    “Some of you would see that as unfair. No, ya wanna know what’s unfair? Getting a woman pregnant against her will. I’m still friends with her, the romance is over for us for a while but we became so close emotionally. And I see up close and in person what it’s like to be a single mother to an infant child. – it’s horrible. She’s exhausted and has nobody to share the day to day burden with. It’s ruined her life in a very real way, and it’s taxing her nonstop.”

    Woman gets 10.000 dollars a month in child support and refuses to hire a nanny to help her with raising the child. I suppose she wants all of the money to spend on herself. Scribb is ok with that, and fully supports the “child support” model that is the main basis of the female imperative in contemporary society.

    “She’s very clear I’m not into playing daddy, fyi, but rather, I’m here to support her as single mother who didn’t abort her baby (i’m prolife) I’m playing uncle. We tried to have sex recently and we both just weren’t interested, lol. It was a funny moment. My point? I understand women and have compassion for them. Hint: This is another reason I get laid, you women-hating jackasses. If you hate women and fear them, which is the basis of MGTOW, don’t be shocked if women don’t want to hang out with you. I really appreciate women in fact, I find them very interesting.”

    This woman is a genius. She has the alpha bucks and alpha seed from her married lover, alpha fucks from the men she is currently fucking (which, from all Scribb knows, includes the child’s father), and beta need from Scribbs, who is totally ok with being her girlfriend. Tell me, after you didn’t fuck her, did you spend the rest of the day painting each other’s toenails?

  22. One thing I forgot to mention. Woman has unprotected sex during her ovulation period WITH MAN SHE KNOWS IS VERY WEALTHY and gets pregnant “against her will”.

    Well, isn’t that special.

  23. I’m still trying to get my head around brother Morpheus.


    I haven ‘t forgotten your other posts and question…I will get to all of it…in the meantime ask whatever you want of me and I’ll give you a candid answer, I’m about being real on these boards, not a posturing blowhard (not directed at you but some fit the bill).

    In the meantime, speaking of this subject and “self-improvement” it is time to go kill my chest workout, but I will get to the comments directed at me.

    Culum, THANK YOU FOR YOUR REPLY AND TIME! I’ve got a ton of follow up questions, maybe we take it to field reports, I already removed the degree reference on my Tinder profile…my initial thought for including it was to signal I am not a “dumb jock” and have a brain as a balance against the gym photo, but I can see how it might signal those looking for “financial provider” vs quick hookup.

  24. “6’3″, My Degree, fitness and exercise enthusiast, non smoker social drinker, playful, open minded, inquisitive, adventurous but also enjoy quiet night at home watching TV or movies. Favorite music is EDM”

    Morpheus, I wish you all the best, but your profile is boring and reads like a job application for boyfriend. You are trying to reason the women into wanting to have sex with you instead of engaging her imagination and her emotions.

    Even if you are visually attractive, this profile will work against you. Remember that “women porn” is romance novels, not pictures of naked dudes.

    I will not go into specifics about what to write because it would not be congruous. You have to find YOUR way of engaging women’s imagination.

    For what it’s worth, I had a reasonably good success with Tinder the one time I used it regularly, the spring and summer of 2016, in a country where I did not speak the language (which I suppose meant that many women there simply could not read my profile, but those who did responded mostly positive). I was hooking up with mostly attractive young women just about every week, and I’m no adonis.

  25. It’s been a few years, so I don’t remember it in detail, but it was something VERY corny like “don’t swipe right unless you are a simmering volcano, waiting to erupt behind a facade of propriety, for when we are alone I WILL stripe that facade and make you explode with pleasure and anticipation”.

  26. @deti

    tl;dr men need to eliminate debilitating mental programs running in their subconscious and grow balls before their choices will benefit them

    I think that you left out a couple of things from your list of men’s problems that are even more important than any of the other things you list.

    First, many men are living under several debilitating mental programs inserted by the FI. These are programs which pedestalize women and assert that “eggs are expensive and sperm is cheap” and “women get to choose”.

    From what I have seen, when women are around hot guys, their libidos spike. Their “choice” becomes “will I run away so that I don’t bang this guy cuz I’m so wet and want his cock”. The man in question gets to choose which girl (or two) he wants to bang that night. The man’s options are far greater than any single woman’s options that night.

    The “eggs are expensive and sperm is cheap” trope diminishes men’s importance. The reality for a hot guy out at night is that his options are greater than any woman’s. Eggs and sperm don’t matter–only the cock.

    So, if a man is running these debilitating mental programs, your advice for him to “do what he wants” is silly. First, the man needs to fix himself–especially his mind. Then his choices to “do what he wants” will be more in line with reality and will benefit him.

    Second, many men–especially young men–have been psychologically castrated. They are neutered and even feminized. And they are glad about it and virtue signal based on their feminization “because women are better human beings.” Even after coming to the red pill, many still believe this in part and even while ranting about women’s bad behavior. Men have to be encouraged to grow balls again and to learn to work. Many times that encouragement needs to take the form of a kick in the pants.

  27. Or they c) do ‘the work’ which is more satisfying in terms of how they spend their time (job, professional development, fitness endeavours, reading, family, cooking healthy for themselves, getting appropriate sleep) versus losing that time to dating/seeking women of equal standing.

    I.e. there is more reward to focusing on non-game endeavours

  28. @Incubus_Rising

    Roosh doesn’t need help smearing himself, man. He went on Dr. Oz and froze when that black whale in Lane Bryant couture went off on him. There’s knowing how to get P in V and then there’s a rough estimate of the character of a man in a given context. From the look of it, it’s as Rollo said. Roosh wanted to find a way to just live off of the shit he’s been doing on into old age. And he didn’t need anyone’s permission to try his hand at that.

    Nobody is above consequences. Not even unintended ones.

  29. Palma…dude!

    Please, please remove the bathroom selfie. It’s so cringeworthy and is like one picture neon sign flashing “stay away” (and not in a good way).

    By all means show off being in shape, it’s a great asset but have some kind of natural looking shirtless picture on the beach or working on a construction site or on a boat or whatever, not the bathroom selfie..

  30. “After the advent of unilaterally female controlled birth control and the Sexual Revolution that followed the upheaval in how men and women come together and relate was inevitable.”

    The seeds of this upheaval were sown long before the advent of the female monopoly on birth control, sadly. The roots run deep.

    “Bond came to the conclusion that Tilly Masterton was one of those girls whose hormones had got mixed up. He knew the type well and thought they and their male counterparts were a direct consequence of giving votes to women and ‘sex equality’. As a result of fifty years of emancipation, feminine qualities were dying out or being transferred to the males. Pansies of both sexes were everywhere, not yet completely homosexual, but confused, not knowing what they were. The result was a herd of unhappy sexual misfits – barren and full of frustrations, the women wanting to dominate and the men to be nannied. He was sorry for them, but he had no time for them.”

    Goldfinger, by Ian Fleming (published 1959, 1 year before the commercial introduction of “The Pill”, 14 years before Roe v. Wade)

  31. Culum

    😂 I’m not that much of a selfie dude, but Palma looks good. Look around at the average 50+ year old man.

    Maybe you’re right about the beach shot thing, but bathroom selfies seem to be standard operating procedure.😁

    I’m purely speculating here, but it a guy is older and not out of shape, wouldn’t it be prudent to display that he’s not ” what you think of ” to the visually driven market?

  32. ” . . . bathroom selfies seem to be standard operating procedure.”

    Apply standard procedures, get standard results. To repeat one of my “bumper stickers”:

    Men can best assess the looks of a woman while she is sleeping
    Women can best assess the looks of a man while he is chopping wood.

    Women exist, men do. Women can sit there and look pretty, but it’s part of the Burden of Performance that what a man is doing is part of how he looks. Men’s profile pics should be action shots. In the ring. Hauling up the mainsail. Maybe even actually chopping wood.

  33. @Blax

    To be clear, I’m not against the “showing your body off” pictures at all. Women say they hate abs pictures, but they work online – guys showing abs get more messages and more responses.

    I’m all for Palma showing off his physique – the effect is even more enhanced at his age for obvious reasons.

    I’m just against him doing the “bathroom selfie” – it’s horrific. It just screams “average unimaginative try hard loser”.

    Same body shown off in a more casual setting – beach, boat, whatever – is a great idea.

  34. Okay, I get it.

    I don’t have social media on purpose, but my kids, goddaughters and their friends post me up on IG often and I.see some of the commentary sometimes. Most of the pics are me in a selfie or a candid shot ( grilling, dancing, etc ).

    Lol, I.was.just speculating on what I would include on a profile if I created one, and I’d most likely include a bathroom selfie because the lighting in the bathroom looks pretty good ( many women take selfies in the bathroom at my home…😂).

    People/women have preconceived notions when they hear – 50-60 year old male – so I’d try to blow that up first. But yeah, action shots are best.

  35. “Lol, I.was.just speculating on what I would include on a profile if I created one, and I’d most likely include a bathroom selfie because the lighting in the bathroom looks pretty good”

    And here we see why it’s wise to only listen/take the advice of someone with experience Vs someone without.

    Still love you blax <3

  36. Rollo posts about a paradigm shift going on in the sphere. And it’s degenerating into a discussion about whether bathroom selfies for guys are a bad idea.


    Palma looks damn good, and Im sure with a body like that gets his dick wet on the regular. No woman gives a good Goddamn where that pic was taken, so long as she can see the goods beforehand, and get to sample the goods in person. Who the fuck cares that it was in a bathroom? The women who fuck him sure won’t give a shit.

  37. Morpheus

    ” There are some commenters where I get the image in my mind of all these really attractive women EVERYWHERE and I really think to myself where are all these guys seeing these attractive women.”

    Well all around almost any Power Five uni and surrounding area coffe places, smoothy places, yoga etc…. Upscale/cool/in parts of LA, NYC, Chicago, Houston, Dallas, Boston, South Fla… even DC. Most resorts, yacht basins… “”scenes”, Hip cool new restaurants and lounges. Upscale hotels. Rooftops… Places that will limit bottom feeders…

    Not here:


  38. It’s the same old same old really. Guys trying to solve cat problems using dog logic. It just wont work.

    Morpheus – at 6’3″ and ripped you should have zero trouble doing approaches in real life. Unless you have problems with your game. focus on that. It will translate online as well. But you should just forget online.

  39. “Who the fuck cares that it was in a bathroom? The women who fuck him sure won’t give a shit.”

    She won’t fuck him if she doesn’t swipe right on his profile (a lot of times if the girl doesn’t like your main profile pic (currently a bathroom selfie) she won’t bother to look through your other pics. Instant swipe left) in the first place (

    Culum’s advice for palma to substitute the bathroom selfie for something more swipeable (doing something cool, while incidentally showing off your body) is good advice.

  40. @thedeti

    Rollo posts about a paradigm shift going on in the sphere. And it’s degenerating into a discussion about whether bathroom selfies for guys are a bad idea.


    interesting isn’t it?…lol

    i’m guessing, but you think that is bad?…

    and no, i’m not really setting you up…lol… i’m just wanting to illustrate a point…

    so, if you would be so kind as to answer that^^^…

    good luck!

  41. “The photo is fine. Too much overthinking, methinks.
    -just my .01”

    and this is why we don’t listen to women 🙂

  42. @Sentient

    Here is something I see regularly… Girls like this with guys like this [just a random pic]

    Now if you want to run into MOAR girls like this… Hit up her Insta and see where she goes…

    Then start going to places like that…


    IRL is the BEST!!!… (and ya, that was a pun aimed you, bro…lol)

    and all you men who are going to step up, just remember… that sh*t^^^ is ALL ‘curated’… so that she LOOKS like she is that ‘awesome’ all the time…lol

    BUT… that’s NOT true at ALL… that^^^ represents the PEAK of her life experiences…lol… and read between the lines to see what is NOT there…

    ‘having drinks at a cool place’ is a peak experience for her…lol

    ps. i LOVED venice…lol

    good luck!

  43. I’m going to move any specific responses on online dating apps over to Field Reports after this.

    Ranger, thanks for the feedback, much appreciated, I laughed at the “job application” but you are right, and that is kind of the conclusion i was coming to earlier when I mentioned it being to “Factual”…I had figured I’d leave the “Cocky Funny” stuff for the messaging but looks like it is also key to the profile


    So many conservative social commentators, like Ross Douthat, fail to account for feedback loops in the sexual market, and how that trickles up and affects the economic market. They have a blind spot about women, preferring to lay blame for all society’s woeful indicators at the feet of men, so that they may continue polishing the pedestal of their faire maidens.

    But men react to opposite sex cues just as much as women do. Think of men as having two engines of motivation, one internal, one external. The internal engine is self-starting and self-perpetuating, and it evolved to confer upon men a shot at raising their status so that they could attract more and better women.

    The external engine is context-dependent. Visual cues fuel it, and it puts out more power the more enticing visual cues are fed into it. This engine, too, is a product of evolution, but it is more easily short-circuited by negative environmental inputs that were rare in the millennia when evolution was working to perfect both engines.

    Men’s (white men’s, at any rate) external engine of motivation looks around, surveys a landscape teeming with land whales, single moms, and sluts, and decides that, hey, working their asses off in a crappy, low-wage job for a shot at wifing up George Lucas’ pelican gullet is the dictionary definition of a raw deal. Throw in the growing ranks of single moms, even the thin fuckable ones, and the women who have amassed considerable premarital histories on the cock carousel and are therefore less likely to stay faithful or to avoid the divorce altar, and men’s motivation to perform for these female losers dwindles to nothing.

    Now add the finishing ingredient — porn — and you have most of what you need to know about why marriage rates are falling and men are dropping out of the economy, particularly among the lower classes. (The upper classes have more stable marriages because getting married later in life circumscribes the availability of tempting extramarital options, especially for older wives. Plus, upper class women are generally thinner and hotter.)

    Dropped-out men may not be consciously happy about their non-employment and increasing alienation from society, but subconsciously they are making very rational cost-benefit decisions based upon real world incentives and disincentives. In 2014 America, cheap online porn is more rewarding than an expensive fat wife, and disability insurance more rewarding than working at a paint shop for $9 an hour. Change those two inputs — make both American women and American wages more attractive — and you will begin to see men dropping back into contention.

  45. Hey Morpheus and all

    Re: online dating. It’s been good to me. If this was around back in the day it’s possible I would not have a son.

    Son is 9. so far I have not been financially crushed (but certainly compromised) so I’m able to pay for a few drinks without feeling tight. . I’m white, 5’9”, 170lbs have kept my university soccer and wrestling physique throughout my life (from coaching and participating in both even now) I’m 46. Was briefly an English teacher. Now a high-end fitness/health coach, a personal trainer who takes on tougher cases (mostly neuro-issues). Mostly work at a community center and in my home.

    I swing kettlebells, clubbells, and various groundwork and calisthenics. I don’t try to crush weight, I try to move a chunk of weight intelligently.

    I advertise none of that per se in my profile. Just indicate things I would enjoy doing with someone else, and ask that they be “more than just a pretty face.” They must qualify a little bit….

    Ive used Bumble only, sticking usually to the 22-28 set. My first pic is my son on my shoulders at the beach (can’t see his face).

    I have a ton of stories, and at least six crazies. This is not that bad since it’s coming on 3 years of dating…

    Some more background: Having a son and attempting to raise him well in this nutty world for me, has taught me a ton. I fought against the FI and the legal-system to secure father-son time. Biggest thing I learned is that I was not stoic enough. I’m still not stoic enough. Just heard from my ex that our last cat just passed last night and I almost cried right then and there.

    Long-story short: fighting for him has made me much more IDGAF about women, yet, as can be expected, this is maybe exactly what makes women want to go for me. I’m too busy and frugal to do more than drinks. And if they get more demanding, I simply say “hey, my son comes first, totally understand if you’re not okay with that.” End of. No rancor, and it’s true.

    At 6’3” and looking like a beast, you should be crushing it even more than me. Let me know if I can help.

    Be good!

  46. “looking like a beast, ”

    I think Morpheus solved the problem with that pick in FR section.

    He just looks like a large bulky guy. That look does not translate online. The camera adds weight as it is, and being pale washes the rest away. The pics girls like are lean first and foremost. definition.

    57 YO Lyon, not chopping wood.

    But get off that online thing already!

  47. Palma

    So we’re undecided about the “bathroom” shot then..

    But what about the other two??

    They don’t work for me. The women are fine and I always enjoy your material here, but I’m just not attracted to you in that way…

    I think kfg is right about the action shots. Ready made for you as a Hen Cruise sailing Captain. Get somebody else to take the photo. Am I the only one that thinks selfies send the wrong message?

  48. “‘having drinks at a cool place’ is a peak experience for her…lol”

    lol… if a female tried to take pictures when i was doing normal shit like drinking liquids, enjoying nature, sitting down somewhere in some city, being in a park somewhere…

    she should delete all pics and just put one post up: “i live a life where i do things in places, but none of them are worth photographing”

    “entertainment partnerships @ facebook ”

    is that her job lol

    who did she blow to get that interview lol last thing that comes to mind with that page is “entertaining”

    it’s like half the internet became some boring chubby junior high girl’s random vacation picture envelope…

    “Then start going to places like that…”

    so you can meet dead-eyed corporate gash like her lol

    i like the girls in the theater department the best lately…. more likely to be “dreamers”, less materialistic overall, no clear “career” path, more in the moment, more openly easy, more into being dominated by masculine energy because they need it for their “performances” lol

    i stay away from law, business, medicine, policy, nursing and athletes

    happy hunting guys. remember they want to go back home and break somebody’s heart for thanksgiving lol

  49. @Lost Patrol

    I think kfg is right about the action shots. Ready made for you as a Hen Cruise sailing Captain. Get somebody else to take the photo.


    Am I the only one that thinks selfies send the wrong message?

    i think you are right… it sort of smacks of try-hard… like nobody else (ie other girls) cares enough to be interested…

    but there is a slight difference between when a girl takes the shot and when the man does… look at the two photos of the dude @Palmasailor put up…lol… one has both hands in sight, with girl taking pic… where it only looks like he is complying with a request from her…

    but that’s that’s not as bad as the second one where the dude is taking the selfie… where it sort of looks like he is ‘bragging’ (although i know that’s not what’s going on in that pic…lol) about the ‘hot girl’ that would take a pic with him…

    the best photo is to look like you are the center of attention, with somebody else sooo interested in YOU doing that ‘action’ that they can’t help themselves but take the pic… like that steve lyons pic…lol… sooo, ‘boring’ actions are probably better as the subject’s action…

    good luck!

  50. The members of the Red Man Group is in it to make money from men and they are no better than pimping preachers / pastors but men are so thick and gullible that they can’t see the forest for the trees.

  51. For anyone who has had opportunities to overhear women talking about their husbands when they think no male is around ( EG. working in a hair salon) , it becomes very clear it’s nearly always transactional after the honeymoon hormones wear off. Men become docile plow horses and lose their edge after marriage, sometimes egged on by their wives as “I love the Dad Bod” so they can let themselves go as well. The only men women truly want are the ones that refuse to succumb to the pail of oats in the stable.
    As far as MGTOW’s go, they come in many flavors, I consider myself one. Even though I still enjoy the company of attractive women, I have no desire to co-habit with one or remarry. I don’t go out of my way to pursue them, but take advantage of opportunities that come my way. That said, very few over 40 are worth the bother ( I’m 64), I’d sooner play pool, ride my bike and hit the gym with like minded minded guys than waste time looking for unicorns in the herds of Bovineity and the Porcine.

  52. As a MGTOW I would say that at least, for me, it’s largely about society and it’s laws, especially the enforcement of those laws to the detriment of men that makes MGTOW the clear choice. It’s the understanding and acceptance that “option 2” (MRA) is, and always was, dead. It was never a viable choice because society can’t afford and doesn’t have the stomach to acknowledge or listen to men’s problems, let alone spend money on addressing them.

    Since MGTOW men often are not incels and often do not have problems dating women (many are divorcees who’ve been royally burned by the system), the “Game” option is equally as irrelevant. MGTOW is about understanding the risks that society poses to men because they are men. You admitted that reform is slow in Family and Divorce court. That’s a HUGE problem and not something to gloss over. Add to that workplace policy (#MeToo), Title IX law on college campuses where an accusation can ruin a man’s employment and earning potential over a lifetime, DV law where women can make spurious claims to get their spouse or live-in bf jailed, (often contrived for better results in custody disputes). On so on. Hell, it’s so bad now that Mike Pence won’t take a meeting with a woman unless there’s a 3rd party present, although he’s just a wackadoo so maybe that’s a bad example.

    As MGTOW is yes, about pursuing goals for one’s self, some RP tenets have been co-opted. Relentlessly pursue your goals – professional, personal, mental, physical, financial, and emotional.

    On the contrary to your assertion, a MGTOW who is fully realized in achieving the goals listed is not “low value.” It IS an irony that being full MGTOW actually makes you more attractive to women. And MGTOW absolutely should leverage that in the social/sexual marketplace.

    And most MGTOW DO date women (I could never be a monk). But they are aware of how society views them as men and so choose not to marry or live with women. This is not due to hate, but rather logic, practicality, common sense, and pragmatism. And MGTOW does ‘preach’ that it is a terrible choice to settle for your ‘transactional’ sex as barter in exchange for putting all of your resources at risk, likely having to support another dude’s kids. Screw that. Either find someone to have your own kids, if you really even want kids, or just sell your sperm so you know you’ve got 50 kids out there somewhere, LOL, if passing on your genes really means that much to you.

    Indeed, as laws change, there will be less need for MGTOW, but for now, MGTOW is clearly the only sane choice for the next few generations of men. Currently, marrying or living with a woman is the worst possible thing a man can do while trying to manage and/or mitigate risk. (Again, not about hate, not really even about women, not about not being able to date, it’s about living in a society that will make men responsible and foot the bill before anyone else).

    That’s what MGTOW is for me. I love women, love my mom, sisters, friends who are women, but I don’t involve them in my life in such a way that it can cause me undue harm. That’s just being stupid.

    So yeah, I see that segregation, as you alluded to, may be the solution for a few generations. I also do agree that MGTOW is an adjustment that society did not see coming. Feminists built the narrative that they wanted men to follow, they never imagined that men would have their own plan for men. Who would have thought?

    Lastly, I don’t much care where MGTOW came from or if it’s the next ripe environment for charlatans selling the same old snake oil with a new label. If it makes anyone feel better to say “I am the original and everyone’s just copying me”, hey, knock yourself out. Who cares? I just care that men, especially young men, are making informed decisions that put them in the best possible position to succeed in life. Right now, that’s NOT marriage. Serial monogamy in separate residences is the best overall option. We’ve seen 50 years worth of men capping themselves on the courthouse steps from being raped by the system. All society can do is shrug it’s shoulders. All MGTOW men are doing is realizing that most likely, waiting another 50 years isn’t going to help. So we accept the existential situation for what it is, make the changes necessary as individuals, and don’t take sh*t from anyone about it.

  53. @ Rollo

    Great quote from heartiste.

    The OMGs here are overly obsessed with the whole alpha concept. This is why they like to shit on MGTOW types.

    But alphas are only a very tiny subset of men. They are not superior to non alphas. Rollo even has an essay or two that says something along those lines.

    I think it is non alpha males that drive collective shifts on the male side of the SMP. They are far more numerous than alpha males, and also have a much greater incentive to act collectively. You could even say they have no choice, really.

    That’s why I like the MGTOWs. They’re a bit off on a few things. But they are a step in the right direction, in my opinion.

  54. Wow… so much hate for the beta here. Sure its that beta fault who was fed for 25 years fantasy romantic porn of being a decent man, helping and being nice. Now some here wonder why it is so hard for many of them to just “change.” Now you are slapping them with trans porn in the face telling them this is how it is done in real life.

    The red pill is hard to take, but once you get it you have to unlearn all the other bullshit they fed you all those years. Meanwhile the whole media and the church are giving them (young men) contradictory messages. Good luck with that.

    Oh, almost forgot, you are unmarriageable bcs. you don’t earn enough, but sure hit the gym, eat healthy, and take care of your looks and work overtime, don’t forget to pay the rent though, taxes and do tither your feminist pastor, complaining that there are not good enough men around to marry the born again virgins in his flock…

  55. 😐

    I honestly don’t get the ” scared of harm ” argument wrt interactions with women.

    She might….


    Question for every single dude that is ” concerned ” about what a women could do ( some have said they will DESTROY you and your life ), are you concerned or afraid about most of your life, or is it strictly women?

  56. LOL @ retarded babydaddy Scribblerg. You and Spergatron should form the Old Man Baby Minder group.

    If only YaReally were around to advice babydaddy Scribs!

  57. “I honestly don’t get the ” scared of harm ” argument wrt interactions with women.”

    I find that hard to believe.

    For clarity then, no one is scared of a woman. They are scared of the state.

    As they very well should be.

  58. A Girl
    I see men and women hanging out as friends more than ever. I would hardly call that segregation.

    “Friends” = beta orbiter circling a girl hoping for a whiff…acting like another girl…while she treats him as her gay friend.

    Great for her when she needs the couch moved. Sucks for him, because he’s her palace eunuch. Yeah, it’s a kind of segregation.

  59. Aeon

    I don’t believe men should live in fear of anything other than death, state included.

    Wait until they start putting bullets in you.

    But what I’m reading over and over is fear of women, that they are going to destroy you using the state/other men. A lot of it is exaggeration and hyperbole, rooted in good old fashioned fear.

    I’m a divorce man. Nobody should point to me to use me as an excuse – ” see!!! Blaximus got divorced!!!! “. I understand that I’m hanging out in the sphere, so I’m going to have a steady diet of that stuff, but it’s not smart or rational to harbor fear like that.

    Especially if the ” state ” hasn’t actually done anything to you.


  60. Bwahahahahha. I got 9 thumbs down! I’m a white knight too!. Giggling. Just cuz I try to be supportive to a single mom who I encouraged not to have an abortion. FYI, we don’t t hang out much. I mostly talk to her on the phone to put a smile on her face and provide some solid masculine energy and guidance for her during an incredibly tough time in her life. Even worse? I empathize with women and their lot in the sexual marketplace. That this would trigger some of you proves my point and you can’t even see it. Fucking MGTOW, worst idea ever…

  61. “I don’t believe men should live in fear of anything other than death, state included.”

    I understand the sentiment, but there’s no room for it in this specific circumstance, in my opinion.

    “But what I’m reading over and over is fear of women, that they are going to destroy you using the state/other men. A lot of it is exaggeration and hyperbole, rooted in good old fashioned fear.”

    It really isn’t. This is an option quite readily available to them. They can exercise it at any time, for any reason, and expect full support from the general public and the legal system.

    I don’t see any exaggeration. There are countless stories of women using the state in this way

    “it’s not smart or rational to harbor fear like that.”

    What could possibly be more rational than the fear of a corrupt legal system/government?

  62. “I empathize with women and their lot in the sexual marketplace.”

    Did you not just humble brag about your new 19 or 20 year old piece? You, a man of over 50 years?

    Helping young women step up onto the cock carousel is very compassionate of you, I have to agree

  63. Aeon

    Okay, we agree to disagree.

    300+million people in the U.S. Alone. If you pointed to 150 million ” stories ” I would totally agree.

    But chew on this perspective. The state/government has been corrupt before you or I were born. People are adept at ignoring the fuckery, until they think it might affect them or their way of life.

    The trick is to understand this, not ever fear this ( because they are counting on using your fear to control you, or make you voluntarily control yourself ) and figure out how to get what you want despite perceived odds.

    Or settle for the eventuality that men eventually won’t be allowed to leave their house/compound.😁

  64. The OMGs here are overly obsessed with the whole alpha concept the concept of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, self actualization, and self differentiation, while having sex with their wives 3x a week because they are attractive, and raising their children to be self actualized, great people. This is why they like to shit on MGTOW types.

    Thanks for the comments Deti, Novaseeker and Morpheus.

    I’m indifferent to guys that are lazy, whine, or claim things are hopeless. It’s untrue that some of us have no idea how hard things are out there. It’s untrue that things are exponentially harder now. They are just different. Things always get different every ten years. Near as I can figure over the last five and a half decades. It always has. There is nothing new under the sun. Except when there is. And there always is. You only got so many trips round the sun. Make the best of them, dudes…

    Oh, and hey JODY, what’s up? I saw you logged on. Don’t be be a ghost.

  65. Blaximus doesn’t get the idea that there are men afraid of women.

    C’mon, seriously? You’ve never seen a man who is totally in a woman’s frame? Who lets her treat him like one of the children? I’ve seen it more than once. Dalrock has an essay on one version of this. The zombie cart-pushers of Costco…

    Maybe they are afraid of the state, but more likely they are afraid of wifely disapproval., because they were raised in a femcentric culture, by women (40% frivorce rate, remember?), brainwashed in school by women teachers (“here’s your sit-still pill!), etc.

    Men are trained from childhood to be “good boys, who please mommy”. Then everyone is surprised when they can’t stand up to their wife. Duh.

  66. Blaximus
    But what I’m reading over and over is fear of women, that they are going to destroy you using the state/other men. A lot of it is exaggeration and hyperbole, rooted in good old fashioned fear.

    Fear, ignorance, and being trapped in a femme=centric frame of reference. IMO.
    Fear – you got it.
    Ignorance – can’t really read a woman, still got Mommy living in the back of his head because
    Frame of reference – still trapped in the “must please women!” blue pill state.

    Churchgoing men especially can get stuck in this, because so many churches are feminized.

  67. “The only men women truly want are the ones that refuse to succumb ”

    Just put a period there and follow that advice.

  68. A tip of the hat to Deti and Novaseeker .

    Regarding mgtow , men have the right to live life how they see fit. That doesn’t mean any way is wrong or right in the eyes of the person living it. It’s when you start explaining that the reasoning may start to faulter and collapse .

  69. @Ronin

    “That said, very few over 40 are worth the bother ( I’m 64)”

    What? Because you’re 64, you think that you should pursue women who are 40+? Feel the hand of the FI on your shoulder?

    ” I’d sooner play pool, ride my bike and hit the gym with like minded minded guys than waste time looking for unicorns in the herds of Bovineity and the Porcine.”

    Yeah, you’re right, you’re no Petruchio. It’s beyond your capability to be able to train girls effortlessly. And I have no issue with your hobbies.

    Unicorns don’t occur naturally–they are created. Kate was initially a shrew, though a beauty. Most all men who knew her judged her not worth the effort. But afterwards, Kate was the moon to Petruchio’s sun. Totally submissive. Intelligently submissive. Kate’s submission to Petruchio polished his reputation in the city.

    True, there is no deficit of porkish women out there. These women have failed to adapt, despite Rollo’s claim that women know how to adapt. But you would be going way overboard if you claimed that there weren’t plenty of young lovelies out there as well.

  70. Here’s one of the vids from Dalrock’s essay. This isn’t just some guy, this is a Baptist preacher.

  71. Cosign everything Sentient and HABD said.

    Right, picture discussion time.

    @Morpheus – I’ll reply in Field Reports too, but the picture stuff could be useful for you too.

    LOL@ “undecided” on the bathroom selfie.

    Palma – your other two pictures are good. Hits the right “cool older guy” and “not a provider” vibes. You only need one of them though, not two. I would choose the one that is NOT a selfie for the reason HABD said.

    Also you really need to have one picture where she can see your face clearly (the two pictures you have you’re making a funny expression when drinking so it’s hard to see how you look “normally”). It doesn’t actually have to be a professional headshot, but something along those lines.

    So ideally you’re looking at something like this:

    headshot or equivalent – clear face pic
    Activity picture doing something cool – if you have a good body showing it off here is ideal. Swimming, beach, boat are all great. My body is average so mine is me scuba diving for this.
    Some kind of social proof/group activity picture (doesn’t have to be just you and a girl, although it can be – Palma’s is fine because it looks natural and not forced, but you want to avoid the “awkward standing next to a hot girl and trying to look cool as she endures the picture with you” vibe – you’re better off just having a natural picture of you with your friends.

    Something with kids is fine too – triggers good associations in women for a number of reasons.

    @Morpheus – gym picture is borderline. It’s not an absolute no-no like a bathroom selfie, it’s more of a judgment call. But yours is basically a gym selfie so I would avoid for basically the same reasons as a bathroom selfie (although not as bad). If you can get someone else to take a picture of you DOING something in the gym (for the reasons @kfg mentioned in this thread and @HABD mentioned in his post), then that is fine.

  72. Re: what conservative Christian churches are teaching, most people aren’t conservative Christians, and Christ himself wouldn’t approve of much of what is done and said in his name.

    I understand,but cannot relate to the ” do what you were taught ” thing, because I wasn’t taught these same things ( be kind and nice and whateverthefuck “.) I was taught to treat people with respect until they give you a reason not to. I was taught that many see kindness as a weakness, so he kind but don’t be a sucker and watch your back.

    There’s no one thing to blame for men’s predicament, but a culmination of things. Imo, all of it can be linked to living in a false, Disney type fairytale that has been wrecked and destroyed. I always maintain that time reveals all. All. Bullshit can last a very long time, but it can’t last forever.

    Weakness is a learned manner of being, I’ll agree on that point, but it’s not natural.

    Revelations re: false profits, people not knowing right from wrong. ” Christians ” need to concentrate on the new testament/Christ teachings or they shouldn’t call themselves ” Christians “.

    / End rant.


  73. “I’m indifferent to guys that are lazy, whine, or claim things are hopeless.“ ~ SJF


    Some (only some) men here sound like women who want something magical and special to happen to them while doing absolutely nothing to deserve it.

    Even worse though, is that some (only some) MGTOW are not even pulling their own weight, and becoming as much as a liability to society as women often are. Understand that even the most forgiving of competent men find this intolerable.

  74. It’s all well and good for men to improve, but where does it end? Hypergamy doesn’t care, remember? Only the biggest of the baddest alphas get to have their “pick,” and that sliver shrinks and shrinks as time marches on. How much of life passes us by in this rat race? How much technological progress is lost due to genius men having zero chance to get laid and as such having zero motivation to perform in life? Imagine, if you will, what could’ve been accomplished by now…curing cancer, curing aids, colonizing the stars system…

  75. Next scribb’s post:

    “How can you not realize how much better and heroic those young single moms are? All those beautiful, beautiful, beautiful women surrounded by so many chumps! How dare you?!!!”

    One does not need to be an MGTOW to recognize a blue-pill secret king wanna-be alpha.

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