The Severing


I’m not really sure where to begin with the killings in Santa Barbara.

About 6 years ago my niece attended UCSB and I became peripherally aware of the social landscape there from what she’d relate either to the family or via FaceBook. It wasn’t really anything less than I’d expect from a notorious ‘party school’ populated by the kids of affluent families – beautiful people, beautiful environment and all the displays of conspicuous consumption you’d probably expect. And it would be the perfect hell for a guy like Eliot Rodger.

Until now I’ve tactically avoided throwing my hat in the ring about this incident because I know the dangers inherent in going off half-cocked about a developing story. If you’re looking for details and information about how this kid evolved into what he was I’ll refer you to Heartiste’s, RoK’s and JustFourGuys breakdown of it. That said I’m going to tap out a few of my own personal thoughts about the kid and the social impact of not just how he came to be, but also what you can expect from a feminine-primary media.


As I’m sure most of the primary manosphere sites have, the members of the PUAHate forum found select posts at Rational Male as a particular targets of their vitriol. When I initially became aware of the forum (via link backs) it was due to their being very publicly linked to the Manboobz blog (now We Hunted the Mammoth).

After perusing the forum for a bit I wrote it off as a collection of guys commiserating about their shared social disenfranchisement and, not to be too blunt, but their shared lack of social intelligence. That these guys were angry with the manosphere was pretty much a given. For the most, they fit a particular personality pattern that’s characteristic of boys / men looking for an easy solution to their social ostracization and noted rejection from female intimacy.

I know the personality well since these types of guys are usually the first to email/PM me for advice for the easiest path between where they are now and where they want to be. They initially believe that Game / red pill awareness / PUA techniques are the panacea they’re looking for to cure their largely sexless and lonely existences.

When, due to their functional autism, Asperger’s syndrome or simply a social awkwardness, they find that the only thing that posed to be a ‘plan’ to help them “get their girl” doesn’t work the way they’d hoped, the reaction is a hostile rejection of what they believe ‘promised’ them the results of curing their sexless state.

To compound things the same PUAs they sought help from, become caricatures of the men who are successfully hooking up with the girls they wanted really nothing more than to be a loyal boyfriend to. They resort back to the only thing they knew, Beta Gameidentify and qualify with women – only now they not only reinvest themselves in it they want to become activists against any form of Game that isn’t what they believe women should respond to.

I don’t have any corroboration of it, but my guess is that a guy like Eliot would’ve made the ridicule list for the now defunct Tumblr “Nice Guys of OKCupid“. I’d suggest reading that post as a primer for anyone wanting to get a better grasp of how this personality type thinks and is ridiculed for.

The PUAs they’d hoped would let them in on the ‘secret’ to a woman’s intimacy, are revealed to them as the charlatan Bad Boy, ‘Alpha males’ they’ve always resented, who they believe mock them with every successful lay they manage.

What’s worse, what fuels their PUAHate activism, is that they ever believed their ‘enemy’ would reveal a way to become like they are. I bring up this observation from experience. I’ve had more than a few of these kinds of guys hit me up, not for advice, but a specific plan that will lead them to some kind of relief from their condition.

Descriptions and Prescriptions

In Preventative Medicine IV a commenter (who, for the record is not an InCel by any stretch) asked me why I had no real prescriptive plan for men to follow with regards to ‘preventing’ or avoiding the bad decisions associated with the time line I laid out in that series. This was my response:

Imagine for a moment I had the temerity to presume that I know exactly what a 60 year old reader like bbb experiences in his personal life with a post-menopausal wife. I could take a good stab at it (in fact I have a post in the can about menopause) but anything specific I could prescribe for him would be based on my best-guess speculations and according to how I’ve observed and detailed things in this series or any of my past posts.

From my earliest posts at SoSuave I’ve had men ask me for some ‘medicine’ for their condition; some personalized plan that will work for them. This sentiment is exactly what makes PUA and manosphere ‘self-help’ speakers sell DVDs and seats at seminars. They claim to have the cure. I say that’s bullshit.

I’m not in the business of cures, I’m in the business of diagnoses. Imagine David D’ Angelo, the “new” Tucker Max or Tyler Durden attempting to force fit their plans to accommodate bbb’s situation. Athol Kay makes attempts to remedy married men’s (non) sex lives, but what’s his real success rate? Is it even measurable? Even Athol recognizes that his MMSL outline is just a map, a diagnosis, that men have to modify for themselves per their individual experience and demographic. You see, your cure, your plan of action isn’t what bbb’s will be, or your future son’s, or anyone else reading my work. I can give you a map, but you still have to make your own trail. I’m not a savior, you are your savior

Short version: I’m not interested in making men be better men, I’m interested in men making themselves better Men.

What’s more legitimate, my prescribing some course or template to follow that leads a man to a success that ultimately I define for a reader, or my laying out an accurate landscape for his better understanding and he creates his own success with it?

Are you your success or my success? I’d rather a Man be his own.

Most men already know what the keys are, and most even know how to use them, but what they really want is confirmation that they actually have the keys.

My approach to Game is defined in much broader terms than simply ‘how to get girls’, and I think for the better part of the manosphere the understanding of Game has evolved beyond rote memorization of scripts and plans. It’s gotten to a stage where even the most enthusiastic proponents of PUA techniques acknowledge a need for an individualized approach to relating and interacting with women based on a broader applied understanding of feminine psychology, sociology and the particular conditions that apply to themselves as well as the women they’re interacting with.

It’s been noted before, my approach to Game is descriptive, not prescriptive.

What’s Next?

In the next month or so I expect there will be a lot of armchair psychologists making their best attempt to suss out what Eliot’s killings represent without ever really having experienced in any depth the mental schemas of minds like his. A fem-centric media and society will want its easy, binary answers and I suspect they’ll get no less in passing Eliot’s neurosis off on whatever conveniently fits the narrative that makes for the easiest to swallow and move on.

Right now I expect that’s going to be the manosphere, but Eliot wasn’t our monster, he was the product of his own psychosis and his neurotic belief in the First Set of Books. Eliot was a more violent version of what happens when socially maladaptive men root themselves in a transactional, reciprocal, model of what would solve his loneliness, sexual frustration and desperation.

Eliot and those of his mindset believed that everyone ought to be playing by the set of rules he was conditioned to believe everyone else was playing by and he dutifully subscribed to. They want a prescription, not a painful, ego destroying description.

Under those rules, he embodied his own definition of an Alpha – the guy who played it right and would be gratefully appreciated by any normal person adhering to the way things should be. But he couldn’t come to terms with the fact that everyone else wasn’t playing by that rule set, and he wouldn’t be rewarded for his self-righteous dedication to his conditioning with sex or justice or even basic human interaction. Six people died because he couldn’t come to terms with the fact that much of the opposite of what that conditioning taught him was what he saw was being rewarded.

Would a better grasp of Game have changed Eliot’s mind? I doubt it.

That’s not an indictment of Game or red pill awareness, but rather an understanding of the mindset he developed. I know the obsessiveness of the kind of guy Eliot was. A devoted girlfriend, and her sexual affections wouldn’t have steered his course any differently.

His hate required his destitution, and vice versa. That hate wasn’t about women or misogyny, or Alpha jocks getting after it with the girls he wanted, or even PUAs selling him a new set of rules he couldn’t stomach; his hate was about his inability to reconcile his ego with the ugly realities that a brief exposure to red pill truths revealed to him.

Game saves lives, and not just the lives of the person awakening to a red pill awareness. I know this firsthand from twelve years of private email testimonials and heartbreaking confessions.

Game saves lives, particularly in an era where hypergamy and the new gender paradigm, established since the sexual revolution, ruthlessly selects-out men who might otherwise expect to be considered intimately acceptable by their dedication and adherence to the set of beliefs their feminized conditioning has promised them would be their reward – but the men who need it most have to come to terms with the pain, remorse and resentment of having ever needed to cut themselves away from their prior system belief.

That severance from their conditioned ego-investment is a test that will either prompt them to see the old system for what it was and adapt, or simply put a gun to their head (or the heads of others beforehand).

It is very difficult to make men aware of Game, but the acceptance of it is more difficult when it challenges a man’s sense of self that’s been literally built upon the belief that the system he’s cut himself away from was part of who he really is.

The Bitter Taste of the Red Pill

The truth will set you free, but it doesn’t make truth hurt any less, nor does it make truth any prettier, and it certainly doesn’t absolve you of the responsibilities that truth requires. One of the biggest obstacles guys face in unplugging is accepting the hard truths that Game forces upon them. Among these is bearing the burden of realizing what you’ve been conditioned to believe for so long were comfortable ideals and loving expectations are really liabilities. Call them lies if you want, but there’s a certain hopeless nihilism that accompanies categorizing what really amounts to a system that you are now cut away from. It is not that you’re hopeless, it’s that you lack the insight at this point to see that you can create hope in a new system – one in which you have more direct control over.

As an end note here I think in the coming weeks there will be a greater scrutiny placed on Game and the manosphere in general. There will undoubtedly be more back and forth about the how’s and why’s of Eliot’s killings, and I sincerely doubt all the effort expended to prove that this kid was an antisocial, psychotic and really needed the unplugging an acceptance of Game would’ve benefitted him with. You simply wont teach those unwilling to learn.

However, as always, my comment thread here will be unmoderated for those who want to offer their take on all this. I would ask though that if you have a personal testimonial about how Game, or The Rational Male (book or blog) or any other manosphere writer, or idea / experience changed the course of your life, please considering leaving it here for the benefit of others. Nothing is TL;DR as far as I’m concerned.

As I mentioned earlier, I have an email ‘save’ box reserved for inspirational emails I receive from readers. Many of these are confessionals about aborted suicide attempts due in part or whole to something I wrote or caused some man to rethink. I wouldn’t dream of breaking any man’s confidence by copy and pasting them into a blog post, but if you have some experience you comfortable with sharing in the comments I’d encourage you to do so during this time.

Thank you.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

206 comments on “The Severing

  1. This ‘yesallwomen’ bullshit is nothing but amoral, hypergamous victim-women reacting by attacking what they would defend. They are defensive because they know their true nature. They know they treat lonely, less-attractive men like absolute garbage. They know that the attractive asshole gets the girl. They know the truth about no-fault divorce and how women use men and extract from men for *years*, not just for a night of sex. They also know why women hate each other.

    Fuck the feminists and their vapid ‘I can’t wait to make this about me and my various political causes’ horseshit.

  2. I wish I could say I have no idea how anyone could do such a thing. I wish I could say I can’t identify with someone like that. The truth is if I never discovered the “manosphere” back when I was a lonely frustrated virgin, I may very well have ended up like this guy. It was a lot of work (and I have a long way to go) but I changed the momentum of the course of my life and without this site in particular I am fairly sure suicide would’ve been my fate. Keep up the good work Rollo.

  3. Watching this guys videos it becomes very apparent that Rodger couldn’t believe that his BMW, his nice clothes, first class jet setting lifestyle, and his money couldn’t get him laid. He couldn’t believe that women were throwing themselves at broke “douchebags” and “obnoxious brutes” instead of him the “supreme gentlemen”. In other words Rodger couldn’t fathom that the California babes would prefer alpha thug game over beta provider game. This case just confirms everything we all know to be true. Roosh’s post over at ROK is 100% dead on. Elliot Rodger is a victim of this culture and this kid could have been saved if he opened his eyes and sought out the long hard journey of unplugging and learning at least basic game principles. Instead he lost all hope and developed a toxic, cynical, misanthropic worldview. I can’t say I blame him. As he said, it really isn’t fair.

  4. “Would a better grasp of Game have changed Eliot’s mind? I doubt it”…………Once again you’re spot on Rollo.

    My good mate unplugged me 6 months ago at age 42 and since then, I’ve gorged on a steady diet of RM (Year 1 & 2 as well as all the archives) and believe I’m starting to internalize Game.

    Internalizing Game is something Rodger wasn’t even close to. He was obviously so outcome dependent on a few clumsy PUA attempts that this made him snap.

    I agree – Game SAVES lives.

    On a personal note, I was never close to being suicidal after my ex’s Hypergamy kicked-in and she moved out, but I was in a rut and lost a lot of my natural confidence with women. Red Pill saved my life in that I now have the tools to create my ‘new life’ free from the femshackles that imprisoned my previous Beta mindset.

    I know that I have been given a new lease of life; one in which I now control the Frame.

    For this Rollo – I will forever be thankful of your brilliant work.

  5. Although he killed twice as many men as women the focus is now all about misogyny. Typical female solipsism. He was a pathological narcissist who would not have been helped by game. I have dealt with people like this. Even when they start to gain some of the validation they crave it is never enough. Eventually, anyone not under their control is driven away. Reality never matches up to their delusions of grandeur and they eventually have a breakdown or lash out.

  6. Rollo. Your brilliant work has got me back in the gym. Eating clean. Dressing sharp and DHV ing at every opportunity. Taking my own sweet time and setting my frame. And starting my own business. Many many thanks.

  7. You’re right Rollo, there will be a lot of hatred coming towards the manosphere in the near future. The media has already started pointing fingers and will continue to do so… but this is nothing new.

    My hope is that men (and women) who are not familiar with the manosphere due to their lack of exposure will be compelled to do some research about it for themselves. I believe after the initial bitterness of the red pill wears off many lives will change for the better even in the context of this negative exposure… and this would be new.

    As for me, while I’ve been exposed to these ideas for less than a year now, the changes I have been able to make so far in my life have had a tremendously positive affect in my relationships with women. Thank you Rollo and all the others who are taking the time to educate in order that men and women can have more fulfilling lives and relationships.

  8. Nice comment Stuttie. My final comment on Elliot. We in the west have abandoned all male initiation rites of passage. And we have replaced them with “losing you virginity”. Elders and Men of standing used to defines the nomen when you leave boyhood behind and become a man.
    Now the feminine imperative defines when you become a man. = hence Coldplay.

  9. I sincerely would like to thank you this way for the wonderful writing you are doing and would like to ad my story to this thread as it and the manosphere in general has helped me a lot recently.

    The first time I came into contact with one of your posts was last summer with the SMV graph. Then I started reading some more stuff and slowly but surely things started creeping up in real life confirming them. The tipping point happened in the beginning of winter when I was supposed to meet up with a couple of friends, but due to some bad organization ended up with some acquaintances I barely knew. When I got there I was somewhat angry and indifferent, as I saw the night as ruined. This attitude and total indifference lead to the girls at our table becoming very interested in me for some reason(thinking at the time) and by the end of the night I had the opportunity to go home with one of them. During this time I did notice their sudden interest in me and kept it slow and just as indifferent, even telling one of them she needed to buy herself a “cat lady starter kit” soon as she is approaching 40. Anyway, long story short, I decided to take the lesson from that evening, declined going with the girl, giving me another grate reaction and started dedicating the next months to becoming and avid reader of your blog.
    By new years I have gone through the whole year one and year two material, have bought your book, and continued to look into self-development and inner game in general.
    It did indeed make me very angry and misogynistic during the holiday season. The anger was mostly directed at me, as to how could I have accepted this advice from people, when my natural instinct was the opposite. In the end I’m happy to report the paradigm has shifted, I have accepted the situation for what it is and am investing a lot of time and effort into getting my life under control and doing whatever I want to do to get where I want to get. This has sparked a huge spike of energy and motivation in me, making me more productive than I have ever been.
    I think this should be a mans natural state, doing what he believes is right for him and following his dreams. Essentially becoming engaged with life and what he is doing.
    The same can not be said of a friend of mine I encouraged to read the blog, as he has become very angry toward women and the world in general. I have tried to give him another perspective, but he still hangs to the victim mindset and that it’s other peoples fault that he is the way he is.
    I’m still not there yet in the women department, but I am making progress in the right direction every day and that gives me more energy and motivation each time. I’ve also noticed that there is no exact recipe for everyone, each has to make his own.
    I’ve recently finished reading The Rational Animal and that has opened up a whole new level of understanding human behavior, motivation and decision making. It has really contributed a lot to the better understanding and acceptance of the Red Pill. The chapter about mate acquisition is more blue pill than expected, but everything else in the book is very good. I highly recommend it to people stuck in between, just like this post describes.

    Again, Thank you Rollo very much for the content you are providing, and keep up to good work.

  10. Great post. The best I’ve read so far about this tragedy. That he is a result of his blue pill conditioning is exactly it. Facing up to the reality of how things really work can be very hard and ego destroying, as you say. I have been game aware for years now and still feel a little heartbroken when I compare the idealization I had about love and relationships to the hard truth the Red Pill makes you aware of. The hardest part is deciding what it means about who you are, have been and will be, because every choice will be a compromise. You can reject RedPill and live the brutal life of an AFC, or go all out Red Pill and pay the price in never experiencing closeness and trust again, living in constant Alpha mode can be its own hell as well and something not even natural Alphas do 100% of the time, or MGTOW and really sacrifice all contact at all.
    You have to find your own balance, your own way. There is no short cut. And along the way you will have to confront old hurts, regrets, short comings and ego destroying truths, as well as face up to the conditioning FI thrust upon you by even your mother. It is alot of work, emotionally hard, and the older you are, I think, sometimes the harder it is.
    You also have to question every assertion you read in manopshere, and find your own perspective and way of integrating the information.
    At least that is how it has been for me. Maybe I am just retarded or slow. But by reading the comments, I don’t think I am alone.

  11. There will always be various interpretations to Elliott Rodger’s actions. Some will be construed to suit their own agendas, and some will look at it more objectively. Some will draw from similar mindset experiences at a related age and in comparable environments.

    I always aspire to look at it from reality, but nobody will ever truly know what was going through his head. This is my interpretation:

  12. Short version: I’m not interested in making men be better men, I’m interested in men making themselves better Men.

    I think this is the key. This is the direction I believe others are moving as well.

  13. Of course Game knowledge and especially extended Red Pill wisdom by the likes of Rollo Tomassi, Roosh, Krauser, Heartiste made it way easier for me to understand everyhing.

    Though I was as what would be called a Greater Beta and not unsuccessful with women. Quite a few of my friends are Alpha, with some deep Beta friends being the exception, I introduced most of my friends to Game theory as soon as finding out. Almost all accepted it quickly since it matched their experiences as it did mine. Even quite a few female friends and family members accepted the knowledge.

    That said there are those who are more steeped in the feminine imperative and there is sometimes a great unwillingness to accept the obvious. I have met those too and it simply amazes me how someone can turn away wisdom that could change his life. But I guess it would take greater desire for change for them to first destroy the Beta/Omega-castle and then construct a new Game-aware-Alpha palace in his head.

    What many deep Omegas do not understand is that you cannot simply learn PUA theory and be a master of seduction just by rambling phrases. It takes time to become a more complete man, to get a life with positive male activities, to get rid of unattractive quirks and habits, sometimes to get in shape and then to finally be a more Alpha version of yourself for whom the PUA phrases suddenly seem to work with the hot blonde girl!

  14. I found out about Game about 18 months ago and it most certainly saved my marriage and in a figurative sense it most certainly saved my life. I came to it through MMSL which in some ways is almost Game-lite. But it still works because its still based on the fundamental red pill truths in the world and no amount of group think in the media can change your fundamental understanding and grasp of red pill reality once it sets in. For my part as I read my way through the path of knowledge I couldn’t help but be gripped by many strong memories of events in my life, of relationships and interactions with women that had gone well or gone off the rails when seen in the new light, the real light of the red pill. I was shaken to the core by the strength of resonance that this newfound knowledge had for me. Why? Well of course because every one of those events in my life all of a sudden fit into a crystal clear pattern. For the first time in my life I could actually understand what the hell was and had happened to me and those around me, it all made so much sense.

    Despite that however, the next stage of red pill truth washes over you, and it’s bitter and it’s hard to swallow and to acknowledge one’s own culpability in this grand comedy / tragedy. The realization that, “Oh shit, I have a lot of work to do if I am going to change how this turns out for me”. Because it takes a long time to internalize it, to act on it again and again. It means being prepared to question everything you believed in and were ego-invested in and that is no small ask of a man, much less a young man. It also leaves you feeling rather Nihlistic and a shade despondent. “you mean everyone marches to that drum? Surly we cannot all be that base in how we operate? So pretty much no matter what we do we are slave to these impulses, these chemical signals, these prime drivers of individual behaviour and we just so happen to be really good at deluding ourselves pretty much constantly? What. The . Fuck?!

    I had fallen into the trap of learned helplessness prior to finding the red pill in regards my dysfunctional marriage. I began hanging out on-line with equally disenfranchised people in a sexless marriage forum. Hint, it’s one big pity party where most people are not actually interested any longer in fixing their problem or taking the hard steps to change their situation. To the extent that they would actively shout down anyone who had a solution to their problems that did not fit with their schema of learned helplessness. Thankfully one such debate is what got me onto the trail of the red pill and for that I will be forever thankful. After I left there my life changed substantially for the better but I still carried some of the victim mentality that place had fostered in me, and that I had allowed to grow in my own psyche. Why? Well because being a “victim” in this day and age is both easier and the culturally sanctioned way of dealing with your problems. Even working through Athol’s Male Action Plan and seeing progress, I still hedged on my full mental commitment to myself and to the hard reality of the red pill. Again, why? Again, laziness and a hang over of learned helplessness. It’s simply so much easier to be a “victim” of your circumstance in so many ways rather than accept full responsibility for your own life completely and totally.

    Thankfully I eventually got over myself, stopped being a special snowflake for whom “the rules should surely have been a little different” and completed my 100% commitment to red pill. Meaning, I took 100% responsibility for the outcome of my life and relationships, for their successes and failures and sure enough it all got that much better when I did. And by better I mean divorce averted, headed off any potential infidelities, getting laid like tile any time I want and my wife is happier than ever in not just our marriage but her life as she has also accepted red pill as truth. Note, her “victim behaviour” has also fallen by the wayside completely as well, no more depression, greatly reduced social anxiety, greatly increased sexual appetite, as in from near zero to kink queen in the last three months and far happier with her life over all as well. We are both able to identify social circles that it turns out are not good for us, we are able to be 100% honest about ourselves and the things we need to do to be happy with each other. The self deception has fallen away and made us so much stronger as a result both individually and as a team.

    I can understand how its very hard for so many people to accept the red pill and its truth. Unplugging is so hard as you have to throw so much of what you thought you knew in the trash. It’s particularly hard for the solipsists of the world, as of course the world flows from them and back to them through their own lens of personal experience and the notion that there is such an alien perspective available is indeed alien to them, downright unfathomable as it calls into question everything they have built their lives upon, the grand bargain is indeed no bargain at all.

    It is tragic what happened this last week. It’s a tragedy for the victims and their families, it is a tragedy for the family of the perpetrator and it is a tragedy for the young man who was driven to this course of action. The broader tragedy is of course is that it did not have to happen. Less Disney fairy tales in his life may have helped but far better would have been a real level of insight into the feminine imperative and an understanding of how to work with it in a positive way. E.g. positive masculinity and circumspect observation of the world followed up with a healthy dose of personal responsibility.

    It’s a shame that the media and the feminists will once again try to whip this into a frenzy of so called misogyny without even contemplating that perhaps the young man had one or two observations about the culture around him that may have been salient or objectively true. This will just be more oppression of women (even though he killed more men then women).

    If by chance it is these events that brought you to this forum I say to you a few things.

    1. Good job for showing up and trying to learn something about a different perspective on life.
    2. Do more research to both sides of the coin. Try to see past the immediate tragedy and the events that unfolded and take the time to read some Rational Male, some MMSL and some ROK, try to achieve your own understanding of red pill truth and by this I mean the very fundamental aspects of Game which are evolutionary biology and evolutionary psychology. Game came about through pure empirical research in the field, its not a theory, its a set of practices that work in the real world and it goes way beyond just getting laid, it very clearly lends structure to all intersexual relationships at all life stages for all creatures that call themselves human. It’s the instruction manual to life that nobody ever gave you when you were growing up but should have.
    3. Accept that there are a lot of different opinions around here and that this environment is far more nuanced than anything that can be captured by a sound bite. People who take the red pill go through predictable stages of emotional reactions over the span of hours, days, months even years. there is joy, bitterness, anger, comfort and quiet humility. When you hear men and women speak to the experience, take note that they could be in any one of those stages of growth and their opinions will reflect this arc of experience. Please don’t take someone’s anger as emblematic of the red pill truth, it’s just a natural by-product of unplugging.
    4. Take responsibility for you life, for your actions and for what happens to you in life. You are not a victim, you are a human with the capacity for higher thought and with a huge capacity for Agency in your life. Learn to exercise that agency and you will enjoy your life far more, you will have more fulfilling relationships with everyone around you and you will feel far better about yourself and the world which you inhabit.

  15. I have some sympathy for him, what he did was unforgivable, but family breakdown, Asperger syndrome and a lifetime of bullying will make a person resentful and angry.

    Also the entitlement and narcissism this guy displayed is about what is expected in any reasonably attractive woman and even some of the not so attractive ones.

    Every time one of these killing sprees happens I predict the shooter is from a broken family, I’ve not been wrong yet. Marriage was the foundation of civilization, as we destroy it as an institution we will see more barbaric acts like this.

  16. @Boo

    ‘Watching this guys videos it becomes very apparent that Rodger couldn’t believe that his BMW, his nice clothes, first class jet setting lifestyle, and his money couldn’t get him laid’

    Why wouldn’t he believe that ?

    It’s all everyone and everything has ever told him his entire life.

  17. awesome reading all these comments… far.

    @ agent p – nice post. How long after you swallowed the Red Pill did you “introduce” your wife to Game? I find it extraordinary that she “just gets it” and accepts it.

    One one hand, I wish I’d found Game, and still with my HB8 ex wife (even though a pain in the ass but fuckin hot), but on the other hand, I was living in the matrix.

    I’m now giddy in my post Red Pill oasis of opportunities – future pu55y and tight LTR Game.

    Once you take the red pill – you can’t go back – and if you could would you really want to?

  18. For me, the road from being an Omega to one where I could consistently bed a woman, took more than ten years. The time between my late teens to my early 30s were empty and quite often lonely years. That road is long, full of unexpected twists and turns but if you hold to a path you’ve set for yourself you will triumph. I was a fat chubby nerd when I started, but I knew one thing. I wanted to love a good woman and I wanted to be loved in turn. The question was how to achieve that goal.

    While you may eschew a plan, my road included getting fit (ripped), dressing better, becoming a well read and more interesting person, and most of all losing my fear of the approach. By approaching lots of ladies, you learn what works for you and what doesn’t.

    I’m now married, and believe it or not I still have to game my wife, not to manipulate her but to relate to her in the way she expects a man to interact with her.

    The only other advice I would give, is to learn how to F**K. You have to know how to make your wife or girlfriend orgasmic. It’s the orgasm that releases the hormones responsible for the bonding a woman to a man. You want your wife to rip your clothes off and drag you into bed. I’ve been married for more than 20 years now and I still get dragged into bed.

  19. “It is not that you’re hopeless, it’s that you lack the insight at this point to see that you can create hope in a new system”

    Alternatively, you could discover the system upon which this civilization was built, one that knew how to make men and women who loved them. It’s the blue-pill bullshit that is the new thing.

  20. A thoughtful and dignified response in this turbulent moment.

    When one has the opportunity to study and examine the exact nature of modern conventional wisdom, the matrix, the illuminati, the (less) recent history of gender dynamics (as in, prior to the sexual revolution and suffrage of women), patriarchy, the sacred feminine, if one can read and comprehend the influence of Plato and Socrates, if one studies numerology, astrology, understands the history and modern practices of witchcraft, satanic ritual, and other dark arts, when one is able to comprehend the true dynamic relationship that the individual has with the group, studies science, medicine and philosophy then one can start to see the current mood for what it really is.

    By way of a (very) brief summary, the rise of 20-21stC feminism arose from the stalling of patriarchy which in turn arose from the widespread practice of witch-craft (call it the ‘Feminine Imperative’ of the 15thC). What came before that, I don’t really know nor mind. I would be interested to know, for arguments sake, but to be honest, it’s too long ago to have a bearing on my life now or in the future.

    Like nearly every other physical, metaphysical, chemical, biological and other measured/tangible phenomena in the universe, gender dynamics are exactly that: they are dynamic; cyclical, in fact. We just happen to be living through the advent of another femme cycle (no euphemism intended).

    In short, as an unplugged man, I can almost see the ‘fog’ that still surrounds the consciousness of 80-90% of the population, in nearly every facet of human existence – not just gender/sexual dynamics. As an unplugged man, it is ultimately frustrating to watch loved ones whiling away their existence in material confusion.

    This fog is clearly ‘visible’ to the naked (third) eye in Roger’s films.

    The whole modern social schema and gender dynamic is derived on a basis of reverse psychology, regards the beta bux, alpha fux scenario and the resultant frustrated bewilderment of the overly/overtly-provisioning beta deluded:

    “the guy who played it right and would be gratefully appreciated by any normal person adhering to the way things should be.”

    Exactly right. Modern conventions dictate to a man that he need only provide material (as demonstrated in the videos from Roger – bragging about car, glasses, clothes etc), because that’s what ‘normals’ (the clones), what women, want. That, my friends, couldn’t be further from the truth.

    He thought he was playing it right. And by societal standards, he apparently didn’t do a lot wrong. Hence the fog; hence the confusion; hence the environmental triggering of the genetic predisposition to murder. Under many other combinations of circumstance, he may have been happily cohabiting by now, and forever after.

    Yet he was in fact playing it COMPLETELY wrong. And largely, through little direct fault of his own. He was a very ill man, living in a very ill world.

  21. I was a volcel from 17-27 as I was balls deep in evangelical Christianity. I assumed the identity of the nice zealous Christian man (I hadalready walked into the church with nice guy tendencies). Needless to say my betatude only incensed exponentially under the influence of the evangelical church.

    At 27 I finally had a break down and began to question the realities of faith for a variety of reasons. The biggest reason was that I lived my life thinking my needs didn’t matter (only Jesus/spiritual things/etc). I ultimately realized I was miserable because of this, and that I could no longer live my life in this way.

    I stumbled upon the pill by typing “Christian dating sucks” into google. Haley’s halo was the first site that popped up and led me here/to the sphere in general.

    I consumed everything I could find on the sphere and initially was fucking pissed. I spent ten years of my life spending 10-15 hours a week serving in ministry and neglecting myself. Thousands of hours of lost investment that could of been spent in the gym, pursuing personal interests/hobbies, higher education, etc.

    Initially it all seemed kind of hopeless that I would ever turn the ship around. It’s been almost three years now and I can say that I haven’t quite arrived just yet. However I’ve been able to work past the anger and have put myself on the right track.

    I’m back in the gym, pursuing hobbies, and overall I just have a more sane head on my shoulders when it comes to women. Desperation was my hall-mark as a Christian, I know now that I don’t need to be desperate and that there are tons of women out there.

    I’m living in South America for work for the next year or two and it’s been interesting. It’s been a challenging place to grow as there are difficulties that he culture/living situation present. Nonetheless there are a plethora of hot women here, it’s unreal! Also Women here make it very apparent when they’re interested in you.

    Nonetheless as I said I have my ups and downs. Friday night I crashed and burned in the club only to end up with a date Saturday night that resulted in a make-out session. Two years ago I would’ve never had the balls to make a move.

    In summary the red pill has empowered me to understand that I am my own savior. On one hand it’s greatly encouraging because I can make it happen. On the ther hand it’s greatly discouraging due to the lost investment, and the fact that you feel like you’re climbing out of a bottomless abyss (sometimes you wonder if you’ll ever make it).

  22. Paying forward one’s Red Pill Epiphany to another man either through a forum or personally is a life saver, from what I’ve read Men who have had a realtionship/marriage breakdown have a suicide rate four times higher than women. I can believe this because since the end of my own marriage three years ago I’ve met a number of men who after a few drinks admitted to almost taking the “Smith & Wesson” way out. One I met, the thoughful man he was, was going to do it in the shower stall naked, so he wouldn’t leave a big mess, it was a phone call from an old friend that saved him.

  23. @stuttie
    How and when did I introduce my wife to the red pill?
    It was about 14 months after I took the pill. Frankly I was worried for a long time that she would take a very dim view of the ideas that are central to red pill. The way I went about it I think had a lot to do with my success in traducing the ideas. We were embarking on a two week stay with her parents on vacation and she was not happy about her mother’s behaviour (Entitled bitch). I explained that she would settle down once I showed up on the scene as she was predisposed to defer to AMOG’s. In the ten years of my marriage I have always gone AMOG with the MIL due to differences of ideology (She is devout Christian I am agnostic, I do not suffer “witnessing” very well).

    Wife questioned my observation and so I explained that as an army brat, daughter of a commanding officer, that MIL would and always have a strong natural response to dominant men. But I went on to explain that it was actually quite natural. All women innately are like that but contemporary social programming tries to wash it out of them. I went on to point out how our relationship had been improving in subtle but clearly identifiable ways since I had cut off the Beta and upped the Alpha, since I had shown leadership in our lives. She nodded in agreement.

    I went on to explain the mechanics of shit tests, and why her father always failed them and why MIL would keep upping the ante with each passing year (Being a bitch to her supplicant but excellent provider beta husband). I then went back into history to ask about how MIL would have responded to her own father, or reacted with him. There was no question that she would have bowed to his patriarchal and societal authority. I delicately explained how over time due to the FI that this structure has been undermined and the old social contracts do not hold sway.

    We spoke further of the basics of evo-bio and to drive home the message we went to a bar / restaurant and simply watched it all play out in front of us in real time. We could see young ladies ignoring betas and chatting up alphas, we could see harpy divorcee women trying to entrain mid forty married compatriots into slutty behaviour to justify their own behaviour. It was a fine microcosm of everything that game teaches us and it all began to make sense.

    To complete the lesson, I took her home and fucked the shit out of her really rough, and as promised, she loved it and couldn’t get enough. All of a sudden she had “permission” to be a bad girl. She understood why dominant men turned her on, she loved the idea of being lead and not negotiated with. Like me, the light bulb went on for her big time. Over the coming weeks she ravenously devoured whatever knowledge she could about it from me and the web and is now a firm proponent of red pill thinking. She has let go of her self victimization and taken control of so much more of her life. More importantly, she has finally begun to see the horrible double standards white men are expected to live by and how liberal higher education can trap you in a terrible cage of risk management with potential threats of sexual harassment, fake rape charges and the usual gamut of shaming tactics that are employed. She has come to see how corrosive it is to both men and women to deny them their essential nature.
    It was a risk to me to lay it all out for her, but by letting her see it, red pill truth, in a dysfunctional relationship close to her (her parents) it was just the right distance that she could perceive the mechanisms at work without taking it personally, yet still feel it strongly as it was her family and her own experience. If you can cross that divide in your relationship, it is a huge bonus, or at least it has been for me.

  24. “The thing was to know what he belonged to, how many powers of darkness claimed him for their own. That was the reflection that made you creepy all over. It was impossible – it was not good for one either – trying to imagine. He had taken a high seat amongst the devils of the land – I mean literally. You can’t understand. How could you? – with solid pavement under your feet, surrounded by kind neighbors ready to cheer you or to fall on you, stepping delicately between the butcher and the policeman, in the holy terror of scandal and gallows and lunatic asylums – how can you imagine what particular region of the first ages a man’s untrammeled feet may take him into by the way of solitude – utter solitude without a policeman – by the way of silence – utter silence, where no warning voice of a kind neighbor can be heard whispering of public opinion? These little things make all the great difference.”

    Joseph Conrad, “Heart of Darkness

    Most of life’s truths are contained within that novel.

  25. That guy’s life was a mess otherwise, no friends, no marketable skills, no degree, and while his family might have been well-off, that just made him more dependent, and not even secure since their support was conditional. Women were the least of his problems

  26. A couple thoughts…

    I did a breakdown of Elliot’s psychology based on his memoir. He had a applicative relationship with his mother that represents an extreme version of what most blue pill men face:

    Elliot was exposed to game, but his learned helplessness prevented him from learning it. Still, I love Roosh’s response on ROK here:

    And this morning, Tuthmosis blasted the horrible journalistic response to Elliot’s murders:

  27. I’ve been condemned in similar ways to Rodger for doing the following:

    -cutting myself
    -almost committing suicide a number of times
    -having problems with alcohol and porn addiction
    -coming off as too needy

    I have been told “Do the world a favor and kill yourself” for being too vulnerable and open about the loneliness and frustration I was struggling with. Got torn apart.

    People made fun of and humiliated me and called me stupid when I would express things like wanting a hug.

    I did not beat anyone up. I wasn’t mean to people. I have just been in an incredible amount of pain from growing up in a dysfunctional family, completely lacking social skills, having no sex or affection in my life, and my way of coping has been to isolate, drink, cut myself, go on porn, whatever I could do to get away from the pain and avoid the conflict of any further rejections or humiliation.

    I have let people walk all over me my whole life, got picked on and tormented as a kid, never had any sexual experiences or even kissed a girl all the way through college (until I dropped out due to a nervous breakdown and being suicidal), and even after the few experiences I did have I’m still a virgin and have never had a girlfriend.

    I don’t open up to anyone anymore because all I’d get is criticism, insults, how I’m complaining or being dramatic. Even just the other night I was feeling so tormented by hopelessness and loneliness and the despair that I’m never going to be able to get out of my head I almost decided to kill myself. Just ended up getting drunk and cutting myself again.

    Some of the pain comes from feeling like I’m invisible. That’s what hurts when I read comments on things like what Rodger did. By NO MEANS do I think it’s okay, or that he was justified in what he did. But the thing is that all the pain he was in was just written off.

    There are other people like me who turn their pain inwards against themselves. People that have the same pain that Rodger did but just express it completely differently.

    And people still insult and criticize and slander them like they’re murderers. Whether you go on a killing spree or whether you isolate yourself and don’t hurt anybody but yourself, you’re treated the same if people know that the root of your pain is a lack of sexual relationships with and attention from women.

    That we’re bad people for wanting sex, that we’re bad people for feeling lonely. Again, I have had people tell me “Do the world a favor and kill yourself” when I expressed pain about being addicted to porn, feeling incapable of being in a relationship, feeling lonely and the pain of feeling that my life was never going to change. Condemn, condemn, condemn.

    I have had it hard enough growing up the way I did. I didn’t develop social skills and my memories of ‘friends’ are of getting rocks thrown at me and being picked on, my memories of home are my parents completely ignoring me, my memories of girls are of getting rejected and never being the one any girls wanted to be with. Always felt less than everyone else, and when I’d try to open up to anyone for support for those feelings, it just made things worse. The first time I thought of committing suicide I think I was 13.

    The manosphere has helped me by providing a safe space for me to reveal these things. I’ve been very wary as I’ve gotten older because my whole life when I was younger, whenever I mentioned things like this about my emotional pain, I would be attacked to the point of being figuratively crucified.

    Being able to express these feelings, and have people receptive to hearing me out, makes me feel much more capable of letting go of the pain. The “Red Pill” truths are much easier to accept when you let go of the pain.

    All I’ve needed to really hear is that I’m not a bad person for having sexual needs. I’ve felt like such a loser because I had this belief that my sexual needs weren’t actually needs — they were signs of weakness. I’ve struggled with having no respect for anything I want. Everything is always about “women’s rights” and “respecting women” while all the women I saw were more or less 100x more emotionally stable than I was and had little to no problems going in and out of relationships with lots of different guys.

    They’d get sympathy from all their friends and orbiters when they went through a breakup, and then they’d be with another guy within the week. All while I was on my 5th or 6th year of complete emotional and sexual isolation, was getting more scars on my body and had been teetering back and forth on the edge of suicide.

    And it would all be reinforced by fem-centric society. Girls and guys alike that are getting some or all of their needs met on a regular basis, that throw rocks at the people who are sad because they aren’t getting their needs met — as if they’re criminals.

    I am not a bad person for having sexual needs, and I’m not a bad person for never developing the social skills necessary to meet them. And I’m not a bad person for wanting to learn how to meet them. For all the criticism of “Game” and how it’s “disrespectful to women” or “sexist,” there is a big black void of suffering of all the men like me who never learned it, that nobody has any sympathy for.

    All while women are playing by their rules, and nobody’s criticizing them for that. In fact, they’re defending them. Who is really suffering? Women that can’t seem to get the best man they can find to commit to them forever, women that get pumped and dumped by guys they fuck *OF THEIR OWN FREE WILL*, or guys who go the majority of their lives in complete emotional and sexual isolation, who can’t even figure out how to get their basic needs for human affection met?

    And pissing contest aside, why do men who live in that loneliness and frustration deserve to get made fun of and ridiculed? They don’t. And the problem is that nobody sees anything wrong with making fun of guys living like this that don’t know any better.

    You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink. True. But I think the emotional resistance to the Red Pill is something that the manosphere can help. I know it’s helped me.

    And that’s simply by being non-judgmental. I am still struggling with self-destructive behavior, and I’m having problems implementing Game into my life despite reading about it for months, just because I never did it. I never dated, never got the experience. I don’t have the neural connections.

    But I’m trying. I’m trying to improve myself and I’m trying to make a better, happier future for myself where I can get my needs met. I don’t know about the rest of the manosphere because I’ve only reached out here. But being able to write this stuff out, feeling like I have a voice and that I’m heard, and most of all, not being judged, condemned, ridiculed or outcasted —

    — that is a huge help. Men in situations like mine have no voice anywhere else and have nowhere else to go for support or advice. The people here and the entire movement understands that these aren’t “Sob Stories,” it’s not “Sexist,” it’s not “Misogynistic.”

    In fem-centric society, men having sexual needs and wanting to respect their sexual needs has come to mean, by default, disrespecting and/or hating women and denying their sexual needs.

    The reality is that we are men who’ve suffered a lot that just want to have better, happier futures for ourselves. I would not say that Game saves lives — I would say that the internalization and acceptance of the reality of Game saves lives.

    Because really, Game is about changing you. It’s changing your reactions to the world around you. It’s abandoning old thought patterns and “imprints” about abandonment, rejection, and a fem-centric way of thinking that gives all the power to women.

    Game is about taking your power back and respecting your sexual needs. Society says that it’s okay for women to take their power “back” (from where, I don’t know) and respect their sexual needs, but if men want to do the same, they’re chauvinists.

    It’s automatically assumed that all men are sleeping around (apex fallacy) and getting plenty of sex, so what do they have to complain about? When the reality is the opposite: the majority of ordinary men are sexually and emotionally much, much worse off and much more deprived and damaged than the majority of ordinary women.

    So in the process of un-screwing up my head, realizing all of this helps. I never hated women. I only felt the pain of not having any interaction with them, and on top of it, the pain of being shamed for that.

    The fact that I can write this out on this blog, and not worry that someone is going to say,

    “Softek, go kill yourself. Women don’t owe you shit, no matter how much ‘trauma’ you think you’ve been through.”

    …helps a lot. Does anyone have any idea how much it hurts to hear things like that when you’re in a situation like I’ve been in?

    Hopefully all of this gets some kind of message through to someone.

    1. Good luck on your path! It takes longer to disentangle yourself from bad experiences and the constant Blue Pill brainwashing, if you had been so unlucky to been stuck there longer. Also people in society react to weakness and they pounce upon it – women are especially ruthless about it.

      You might consider writing about some of your experiences at the RooshVF forum. Many young men were going along similar paths in the past. I personally had periods of isolation during my teenage years due to a bad case of acne. Even after it was gone it took me some time to see myself with more sane eyes and become more self-confident.

      It is helpful to meet some RVF members. Many of us are quite helpful, as we went through all kinds of experiences before becoming more well-rounded and Game-aware men. That is what actually might have helped the shooter – a more Game aware male friend – before his aberrations became too deep to deal with.

      Again – keep up the work and reach out to some positive Red Pill guys who had similar experiences in the past. I think it was Krauser who said recently something in the form that Red Pill PUAs/Game aware men are superior to most relationship/sexual mainstream therapists. I agree.

  28. Game does not work for men with serious social dysfunction or serious mental issues. It works for socially well-functioning men who want to improve their performance. Rodger needed a different kind of program, the kind of thing I write about. I had similar problems, worse in some ways, better in others, but found my way through with some personal success and some help from proto-game resources.

  29. This guy struck me as the ultimate Liberal – blaming others, and looking to punish them for his own inadequacies and failures. To a large extent, if you thought of him as a woman, ranting against “the Pariarchy” and others, he was spouting the same hatred that all Liberals spout and his killings is the outcome of that hatred. Nothing new really – of course, I wouldn’t expect that ilk to ever see, or accept, this his is one of their own… Along with numerous other murderers – all of them have been Liberals – because that is what liberalism teaches, blame others and seek to punish them for their success…

  30. Would a better grasp of Game have changed Eliot’s mind? I doubt it.

    That’s not an indictment of Game or red pill awareness, but rather an understanding of the mindset he developed. I know the obsessiveness of the kind of guy Eliot was. A devoted girlfriend, and her sexual affections wouldn’t have steered his course any differently.

    You don’t think a devoted girlfriend would have prevented him from going on a shooting rampage? How can you say this? I would agree that a better grasp of game would not have altered his course once he chose hate as his base motivation, but it could have altered his course before he went down the road of hate and targetless anger. How could it be otherwise? The frustration that men like Elliot have springs from the involuntary part of incel. Celibacy is actually likely far more survivable as a male than as a female since women are more ego-invested in their ability to attract males. However a lack of freedom, sprung from a lack of truly understanding the world around you, is intolerable for males. The unmistakably sweet aftertaste of the very bitter red pill is that whatever celibacy you now experience is no longer involuntary. You can choose a path of approach and adapt, or not… But it is at least your choice and you are aware of the “second set of books” enough to have some control over your sexual life.

    I find myself believing that if Eliot had at least grasped the utility of red pill knowledge, he would have experienced the understanding that he could choose a path that would get him what he wanted. That knowledge alone makes the bitterness of the red pill worthwhile, and should have allowed Eliot to come down (maybe with time) from his absurd position of suicide by murder rampage.

    1. You don’t think a devoted girlfriend would have prevented him from going on a shooting rampage? How can you say this?

      Because it wouldn’t have been enough, it wouldn’t have been ‘right’ to him in some way. He would perceive her to be inadequate or pathetic to pair herself with a reject like himself. She’d have had a prior BF and that would trigger his learned extremism.

      As I stated, his hate needed his destitution and vice versa. If he’d had a GF it may have delayed his actions, but he’d still have killed her or himself or others. His story then would be about his disillusionment with the red pill because “he tried all of that and all he got was this lousy GF?”

      I can think of at least 2 guys in the Christo-Manosphere who are voluntary celibates, with a ‘virginity-or-nothing’ mental schemas, and who, were it not for their religious convictions, would easily fit the profile of an Eliot Rodger. The difference is that they understand and for the better part accept the reality that red pill truths represent, and can live within that reality.

  31. Never needed a prescriptive as red pill fit with my pre-marriage alpha. Post marriage, I was rewarded for beta until menopause forced me to increase my SMV to enable soft dread. Menopause is no longer an excuse and I privately relish the attention from other women, knowing that if my current wife (of 36 years) dumps me, I’ll have many other options for sex.

    Eliot Roger’s adherence to the feminine imperative fucked him up. 20% of men fuck 80% of the women and Eliot was trying so hard to be part of the 80%.

  32. Rollo,

    I was going through my OneItis of 30yrs, as a “beta”, I broke the barrier and “busted a move”. It was a weak attempt I must say. It had the now predictable result of rejection via LJBF. During this time you wrote something (I can’t find the post, but would like it if you remembered) along the lines of her saying “You are perfect for me But…”. She mentioned she was “confused” about why not? But she just didn’t have the tingles.

    Reading that and living through the experience at the same time, made me soak in the “manosphere”, the good the bad. I have broken the Oneitis and have been creating the world a woman can be apart of rather than the other way around.

    After 50 yrs, and trying to be the “perfect” provider, my life is now on my terms. I can’t say I have game, but I do have the ability to not care about rejection so much anymore.

    Your blog in particular, given your writing style, has not saved my live in the literal sense, but figuratively it has improved it immensely making it one I enjoy much more and my relationships with people are much different and positive. I “next” female and male, more than I used to, just bringing quality people into my life. Onward and upward, in a form of constant and never ending improvement.

    Thanks again!

  33. @Rollo,

    What I meant initially in my comment at Preventive Medicine IV, comes from the perspective of a father. Watching my son get raised by the same women, inside the same schools, bathed daily in the same feminist media, where I was raised and where poor Eliot Rodger was clearly raised.

    “Would a better grasp of Game have changed Eliot’s mind? I doubt it.”

    It’s obvious that a 17 year old boy who reads your book or your blog will find it challenging, and must use his imagination to look into his own future and picture his life at 27, or 37, or 47 years old. He will most certainly experience your words differently at 17, than if he were actually that 37 year old husband and father looking back at his own life’s mistakes and successes. I’m sure it’s similarly difficult to imagine being a military general, an acrobat, a president, or any other position we put our minds in every time we pick up any book.

    I suspect, as you have said, it would have been impossible for Eliot to reverse his own lifetime of conditioning. And what a task, to give any man without proper preparation!

    And yet, if we can’t imagine where we could be, how do we ever know where we are?

    In the end, I side with Roosh on this, re: his conclusion that perhaps Eliot could have been saved. Maybe if some man, somewhere, or better yet a group of men, had taken Eliot under his wing right from childhood, and prescribed a workout and approach routine, including helpful encouragement and careful criticism, perhaps this day wouldn’t have come.

    A rational plan of counter-conditioning. Like, a support group for dads who have to face the daily challenge of undoing whatever feminist nonsense was done to their sons that day.

    I completely agree, dropping your book into his hands last month probably wouldn’t have helped. Shutting down last month, wouldn’t have helped. He would have found some other venue to vent the hate he had so carefully cultivated. What might have helped, is a better father to raise him. Or uncle, or teacher, or even (male) mental health professional.

    I hear what you’re saying, it’s impossible to put yourself into the shoes of every man reading every word you write.

    And yet, I’m beginning to believe this entire Rational Male project of yours might in some way be your attempt to reach the men who are raising the little boys of the next generation. Raising a son of your own, or with your influence, as it were.

    He doesn’t yet know who you are, but when he learns, hopefully my son will be as pleased to have met you as I am.

    Thanks, Uncle Rollo.

  34. He snapped. Ultimately he grasped the world operated under redpill rules, and he was so disgusted by it and the animal nature of our species that didn’t conform to his ‘supreme gentleman’ code of blue pill conduct – he couldn’t go on. Couldn’t get plugged back into living in ignorance. So if he couldn’t have that bluepill fantasy, no one would have any happiness.

    It’s strange. I was in his exact same shoes.. and i have come to a point in my life where i cannot relate to him. I have digested and internalized the red pill so much, i cannot remember what it was like to actually live and feel the way he felt. I KNOW i occupied that space, but life has changed so much for me since i found and adopted the sphere and its core messages of internal change – i do not watch those videos of him and say ‘ya, i feel ya’.. i wince and i cringe.

    Ultimately at my worst, i was only capable of offing myself. I never felt grand designs of killing anyone else. But every so often, out of thousands of men who quietly commit suicide to end their pain, a few want to share the pain. You can use the same drug on a 1000 people, and you might get 1% to have an allergic reaction to it. So too is it with incels. Most nice guys really want meaningful relationships. A few like this guy really just wanted the trophy because they’re so insecure they require that validation from outside to define them.

    Game saves lives, but it wouldn’t have saved this guy. I will forever be thankful to Yohami – his words at the outset of my entry into the manosphere guided me away from my original rage to want to pump and dump and learn dark arts and shit – because he recognized that wasn’t me, wouldn’t fix me. His referral of me to the Rawness led me to understand i had to fix the internal wounds, not simply to apply bandages on fatal wounds by simply using pua techniques to talk to women. It wouldn’t fix my underlying insecurity and would exacerbate my problems down the road. Only by working on my core issues, learning about and accepting how the world operated, taking the tough love of the sphere and digesting everything you’ve said about female nature and how hypergamy doesn’t care.. it created a new me.

    A new me that doesn’t recognize and cannot relate to the old me. I am the same person i always was, yet not at all.

    Elliot Rogers was not capable of taking that step, not unless one of us actually grabbed him by the collar of his fancy fucking shirt and slapped him in the face, sat him down and forced him to listen to the redpill over the course of a week in isolation.

  35. Rollo, there are some hard to follow parts of what is a very interesting post, due to typos and ambiguous grammar. Please, please fix.

    I read nearly the entire diatribe. It is pedantic and juvenile, but surprisingly readable. The kid’s recall and description of even early childhood is impressive.

    I (47) saw a lot of my teenage self in Elliot’s rantings. I too grew up in SoCal in a comfortably middle to upper middle class home, among great wealth, but not of it. I was also deeply affected by my parents’ divorce.

    Unlike him, I was disgusted by the wealth. It never enticed me. Sure, I could enjoy it, and did. But I don’t think I ever felt envy for it.

    This kid was seriously messed up. Obviously. He had problems relating to MEN as well as women.

    I have some empathy for him, but he was in a prison entirely of his own making. He constantly mentions rejection, but there is not a single instance of what normal people think of as rejection. It’s pure projection on his part. Ultimately, it was his disdain for the truth that was right in front of him that did him. He seems to grasp female nature, but rejects it.

  36. I cant overstate how useful this blog has been to my life. I am a natural alpha by attitude but I needed this blog to finally believe that this is the way that I should be with women. It has literally been eye-opening. The takeaway is simple. The girl wants you to lead her. That is the basis of any successful male-female relationship. Every good girl has a sexual beast inside her. When you lead her, this sexual self will come out for you. The most important takeaway is to forget the transactional premise of male-female relationships. Now, I focus purely on primal triggers (frame, physical activity, etc.) and that has made everything much easier.

    Thank you Rollo from the bottom of my heart. I pass on the red pill to anyone who wants to hear…..some are ready…many are not.

  37. Jeremey:

    “Celibacy is actually likely far more survivable as a male than as a female since women are more ego-invested in their ability to attract males.”

    Dr. O’Neill: He cut off her nose.
    Somerset: To spite her face.

    I have to agree. If you watch the movie Se7en, you see that the model woman ends up taking the bottle of pills over living with a disfigured face because going on with life and not being afforded the privileges of simply being attractive to the opposite sex simply for being a recognizable feminine woman appearance wise takes away all her sexual power.

    She thus becomes as invisible to men as gameless/beta men are to her. It is a frightening prospect to women. The idea of never being able to attract a man’s attention because all of her sexual power is diminished would induce suicide in most Western women who’s self worth rests entirely on how many likes their selfie can garner on facebook.

  38. “In the end, I side with Roosh on this, re: his conclusion that perhaps Eliot could have been saved. Maybe if some man, somewhere, or better yet a group of men, had taken Eliot under his wing right from childhood, and prescribed a workout and approach routine, including helpful encouragement and careful criticism, perhaps this day wouldn’t have come.”


    “As I stated, his hate needed his destitution and vice versa.”

    I agree with both of these. As an omega male, you come to regard your old friend anger like the realest, most precious ally in your life.

    An omega male turned alpha male could’ve empathized with Rodger and I believe could’ve broken through the extreme self-loathing and the years of investment the omega has placed in accruing a core identity of anger, destitution, self-hatred…

  39. this guy was mentally ill. no question.

    the problem is that loser white knights & manginas refuse to accept the red pill. it is bitter. taking the pill was bitter for me but it didn’t open my eyes as much as it confirmed what i had lived but had no words to describe.

    this story should hopefully drive boys away from those mangina sites so they don’t end up like him.

  40. Long time reader and first time poster.
    While the manosphere didn’t necessarily save my life, it certainly changed it, both positively and permanently. My Google search “How can I get my wife to respect me?” brought me to MMSL. I was dumbfounded. I read it because I couldn’t actually believe what he was proposing as a marital remedy. Being a voracious reader of everything mass media, I had never heard of someone suggesting the Red Pill to improve a relationship. I tried a couple of “tricks” and THEY WORKED! I bought his book and read it twice.
    On my quest for learning, I started reading other sites. Rollo, Roosh, Krauser and Heartiste. Every day, mind blown. Each has a slightly different perspective. I favor The Rational Male, because I come from a technical background, and this site satisfies my ,”How does that work?” mind. This is the only place where I took the time to read EVERY blog post and it was worth the effort.
    I wanted to share that since I am married, pick up has never been at the forefront of my efforts. However, along with the added bonus of a better marriage, the rest of my life has dramatically changed. I now can see how relationships with everyone work, not just women. Co-workers, bosses, waitresses, family, all improved.
    To me, the manosphere is about leadership. Leading your wife and family, leading your company, leading your community.
    I feel sorry for that messed up kid, who felt that he needed to kill to make his life right. Mass media tells us so often and loudly how things SHOULD be, that even when presented with the keys to improvement, it is difficult to believe that all you need to do is take the time to turn it.

  41. Rollo said, “A fem-centric media and society will want its easy, binary answers and I suspect they’ll get no less in passing Eliot’s neurosis off on whatever conveniently fits the narrative that makes for the easiest to swallow and move on.”

    I know Rollo is sorta bound by gender issues in this blog, but I’d love to hear him (and others) expound on the problems of modern mainstream media above and beyond gender issues. In my opinion, the influence and sway of the media giants might be the biggest threat against our Bill of Rights, freedom, and way of life.

  42. @Andrew – post at 5:27am.
    You seem to have been surrounded by some clearly desperate women at that meeting that you describe.

    I’ve been ignoring women for many many years now wherever I go and strange to report they continue to ignore me.
    So I live my life totally free of any hassle that they bring.
    Indeed am now told by other married women of my generation how sensible I have been to have avoided the whole business of relationships and marriage.

    But then again, maybe life in the UK is different…………

  43. “quit acting like a puppy dog, always looking for her attention” Athol.

    From this simple sentence, the realization that somehow after 26 years of marriage, (the first 20, telling myself, wait til the kids are older before you get out of this bitches clutch) my whole universe depended on my wife’s acknowledgement of me was a shock!

    Over the last 1.5 years I have slowly been working game into our relationship and now find that I can breathe without having to have her tell me she loves me. How the hell do you change from a guy who has always wanted/appreciated his independence into this mangina who can’t build the pedestal high enough!?

    This site and a couple of others have helped me to remember that I am a man and what that entails.


  44. I disagree in that Rodger having a girlfriend may have cured some of his problems, enough to normalize his sexual sanity. But it would have had to have happened much earlier, high school for example. He claimed to have already been thinking about killing then because of the lack of sexual attention.

    The mental problems Rodger suffered are exhibited not just in his boring reflections and obsessive plans but also his actions. The men Rodger killed first, his roommates, were of Asian descent, nerdy, and lousy with girls, just like him to some degree in that aspect. He never bothered really trying to follow through on his threats to women, his mother and sister and sorority girls; he skipped his relatives altogether and merely stood outside the sorority house and knocked before killing an unfortunate two; it could have been worse, much worse, if he had really tried.

    The incident when he got drunk and obnoxious and beat up, he also never bothered really trying. He crashed a party kinda sorta tentatively tried to start something, according to other reports getting into several scuffles with guys not girls, and succeeded in merely being terribly annoying. Nobody else was hurt; no scratches, no bruises, no bite marks, no broken items. The outcome shows his intention: getting beaten up by guys.

  45. jf12 – agreed, what he considered to be his ‘pickup attempts’ were nothing that we’d remotely consider to be actual, ‘respectable’ attempts. He never seems to have ‘given it the ol’ college try’. I mean, the guy would simply say ‘hi’ and expect these girls to automatically jump on his cock or something.

    What we see in him is an extreme fear of rejection such that there is apparently no evidence he even invited a girl out or asked a girl if she’d like to join him somewhere. We can call it mental illness or we can call it extreme gutless cowardice fed by sociopathic delusions of grandeur.

  46. when my son is 13 or 14 I am going to take him to a big mall downtown and pay him $5 for every approach he makes and I’ll give him $20 for every number he gets from a chick. I will show him a huge wad of cash to motivate him and let him know he only has a few hours to do the deals. No fear, go get em son!

    I have no doubt that by the end of that day he will have no fear of approach with real live girls. Any social anxiety will be snowed under by the promise of some easy money from dear old dad. If I have to spend $1000 in a day, it’ll be worth every penny. That could be 160 approaches plus at least 10 numbers all in a few hours of hard work It’s a lesson he’ll never forget and he’ll be richer at the end of the day. As an added bonus it will kill any sniper mentality, it will also covertly teach him exactly how women view attention from men, as transactional. To me it would be a small price to pay for such a valuable lesson in life skills, and of course game skills.

    It’s amazing how few examples of success kids need to break through their fear and understand they can actually do something. I have no doubt this scheme will work. I’ll report back when I do it.

  47. @SteveH, I agree. He even tattled on himself regarding incidents in which he got mad for a girl failing to talk to him even though he had not tried to initiate talking with her!

  48. Rodger’s refusal to get his hands dirty in actually trying (despite his bloddy end) anything is symptomatic of some syndrome similar to the women’s syndrome which makes them think Sleeping Beauty is an effective strategy to meet men. I guess we can call it Handsome Prince syndrome, but for Handsome Prince the story is reversed so he sits bored in his castle waiting for Sleeping Beauty to float by.

  49. I’m a long time reader, first time poster. I encountered the manosphere three years ago from the time spent on a forum for unhappy spouses with overweight partners with a blue pill perspective. A poster talked about Athol Kay’s site, which linked to the three R’s and other Red Pill writings. I devoured the writings and experimented with Red Pill concepts in my marriage and found that they indeed worked. I passed the biggest shit test of them all, the overweight, entitled spouse that I had to, unfortunately, bring to her knees with an ultimatum. But the stuff worked! In my case, it was too little, too late, but there’s no denying that it worked. I’ve moved on and I’m in a very happy relationship with great sex after dating up a storm for a time. But my eyes remain open that my current little kitten can turn feral at a moments notice, so the game never stops. I enjoy the depth of analysis at the Rational Male and the explanation of the meta impact of the feminine imperative on our society. As for Rodger, I understand what its like to be near suicidal with an incel life, since living with an overweight spouse that you don’t cheat on but don’t want to sleep with is a near equivalent. I feel his pain, but of course, he has serious mental issues that greatly compounded the way that he dealt with his pain. We can all Monday morning quarter back about what could have been done differently, but without all the facts in, its just speculation at this point. Many thanks to Rollo and the commenters for the many insights and observations which have helped to peel back the layers of blue pill conditioning.

  50. Rollo – I’m a bit surprised by the analysis you offered here. I’m also deeply offended and disappointed by much of the response of the manosphere to these murders. And no, I’m not clutching my fucking pearls – the reason I’m here is because understanding human intersexual dynamics better helps me navigate the world more effectively and happily. And you, Rollo, usually manage to do so without the misogynistic, juvenile and bitter nonsense that pervades much of the “manosphere”. Here’s how I see it, for what it’s worth.

    1. Elliot Rodgers was a profoundly disturbed young man, mentally and emotionally and had been under professional treatment since he was 8 years old. He was a mess before he hit puberty. Stefan Molyneux of Free Domain Radio fame has done a superb job of cataloging Elliot’s life, based on what facts we know and his own extensive writing and YouTube catalog. Here’s a link to the vid – it’s almost 2 hours but guess what? The sum total of circumstance and history and issues any person has are complex and not easily described. Check it out –

    2. The idea that game could have saved this kid is absurd. He “failed” at game – how can you ignore that Rollo? He was well aware of game and in fact hated it because it made even clearer his specific failures. See point 1 for the link to Stefan’s video, if you take the time to watch you’ll see how Elliot’s failures are exquisitely articulated along the lines of the ideas of game. He writes about how he felt about purchasing a hand gun, “Who’s the alpha male now?” You claim some moment of ‘Red Pill Truth” caused his break, and I have to say that this strikes me as just as speculative. Rollo, you studied psychology, you have to realize that this kid was profoundly disturbed in ways that many young men who have some bit of Aspergers and are socially awkward are not? I mean, you have to acknowledge that in fact 99.9% of all 40 year old virgins never attack anyone. But Elliot had already tried to push a couple of women off a balcony at a party and also had developed a penchant for throwing cups of hot coffee at couples he was jealous of and angered by in his delusions.

    3. Holding up what Roosh has to say about this as worth taking seriously is fucked. He characterizes the entire episode as “homoerotic” based on his view of the PUAhate community. He essentially alpha shits on Elliot in his screed of vitriol – it’s the exact opposite of what is called for at a moment as serious as this. This isn’t about women – it’s about a failed family and a failed criminal justice system (how the cops blew yet another of these shooters they had been notified about I’ll never know).

    I see it much differently. I believe that this should cause many in the manosphere to consider whether emitting just pure hatred of women is productive? I’m here, Rollo, because you don’t do that. I won’t trawl through 50% of adolescent anti-intellectual bullshit to get the few gems available from the adult-children fucktards such as those over at Return of Kings. I laugh when Roosh goes off topic on politics, economics and “race realism” – it’s then that you realize what a fucking dingbat he really is, that is if you’ve actually ever seriously studied those topics. Sure, he’s handy for help on picking up women and is entertaining, but at the end of the day, his take on this is appalling.

    I suggest you look much more deeply into this. I think there is a lot in Elliot’s family history wrt both his relationship with his mother and his dad, and his stepmother for that matter, which are very interesting to explore. Of course this narrative doesn’t see men as victims – in fact, in this case Dad left mommy and moved in a hot, young actress. Google Peter Rodgers and go to his website, you can see a section called “Cheeky” which he pays homage to his wife’s ass. It’s quite bizarre actually.

    It’s also true that the topics of autism/aspergers and social failure are again at issue here. That’s interesting to explore, yes? I also see parallels to other shooters in the sense that they are so often early 20s, male. There are psychological pathologies that were present in the Aurora shooter and the Giffords shooter there, as well as the Lanza parallels. He also submerged into 14 hours a day of gaming for extended periods and seems to have isolated himself utterly from the world.

    What’s pretty unique here is that Elliot seems to have had an incredible narcissism that was fueled by his failures with women. His external locus of control and inability to at all empathize with others, his sense of entitlement – all are fascinating in a macabre way. He left a 107,000 word memoir behind and lots of videos and content. He was under treatment of professionals, they have all kinds of info about him.

    A sober, ethical society would actually be willing to explore all this on a factual basis. In fact, it would feel an ethical obligation to do so rather than just giving into whatever bias is lying around handily – game, feminism, misogyny. But that would be asking a lot more of my fellow humans than is commonly on offer. I count you, Rollo, as one of those who could actually lead such a thoughtful inquiry, and I hope you will look more deeply at this.

  51. Glenn – I don’t always agree with Roosh and yes, some of his posts are pretty sophomoric – but as for that particular article, we must have been reading something different entirely. He didn’t just ‘Alpha shit’ on Rodger and he did offer empathy.

    This is a very serious moment. A moment which has arrived following Rodger’s lifetime of very serious ‘therapy’. Why aren’t those therapists being called to account? Why is it a few anonymous (anti) PUAs who are being vilified? Those therapists made a shitload of dough shuffling Rodger into and out of their offices on the regular. Where’s the accountability for those who are *actually* accountable?!

    Yes there was a familial, community, and law-enforcement failure. However, I believe this problem – unquantifiable numbers of angry, simmering incels – is far, far worse than anyone is acknowledging. I say that because I was that guy years ago, except with a good family – without them lord knows what destruction would’ve resulted from my overwhelming anger at the world. Take the number of angry, potentially-violent incels you think exist in this country and multiply that by 20, and I’d say you’re more likely in the ballpark. And so the destructive capacity and the potential for something this awful to happen over and over and over again – holy shit…

    The Tinder/Hookup dating-culture isn’t getting more men laid per se. It is making incels far more exasperated, however. Because ‘it’s so fuckin’ easy now and I can’t even get my dick wet? Burn it all to the ground!’ Can’t you see how that mindset is a natural result of the brave new causalities of our day?

  52. Rollo – as always, great stuff. You provide important insights especially when trying to understand men. Joking for years that I didn’t quite understand men, I decided to learn everything I can about the “manosphere” and after learning about your blog a few months back I started reading more and more, and I don’t think you guys understand the huge (positive) impact putting things into plain language makes for people who often might be confined to their worlds with their own thoughts to try making sense of things that frustrate them. Men don’t seem to do well with confiding or sharing emotions or discussing frustrations, and even though a woman might be one of the last resources a man might turn to for figuring out his frustrations, your work goes a long way to help better understand the bigger picture and ultimately helps understanding men. So for that, I thank you.

  53. This is in response to Rollo’s request for testimonials.

    I have read the Rational male and MMSL. I don’t remember which, or both, said it, but the idea that desire cannot be earned is probably the biggest one I have taken.

    Omega Man mentions above about being dragged to bed. I was always fit, but never muscular. I started working out to increase my upper body strength for swim meets I was competing in, and suddenly my wife started commenting about my “manly chest” and her desire increased. She herself mentioned she had no idea why when I brought it up, but my reading of RM and MMSL made me realize it was the fitness part of game. And once I understood, I could use it as part of a plan to make myself more enjoyable for both of us.I have also started to play more with her, and we have more fun in the relationship and life.

    Over the past year of my exposure to both RM and MMSL I have come to realize how beta I seem to most people, which doesn’t jive with my own sense of myself, and have taken measures to assert myself in places I otherwise wouldn’t have.

    One of those was in the bedroom. Omega Man also talked about learning to F**K. I never realized how much exercise I was supposed to be getting in bed until I started working out, and she wanted me to work out, and how intense, rather than gentle I need and can enjoy being. It obviously needs to be specific to each couple, but it makes me think about what I would like to share with my son as he develops through his teens and 20s.

    My dad shared how much he enjoyed sex with my mother to me, but that is about all I learned from him of sex. I think I would have been open for more, but it isn’t easy to talk about such subjects for men, especially intergenerational within a family.

  54. I don’t know if I can say I’ve been in his position but here’s my story. In school, I was never on the basketball team. Or the baseball team. I was never in a frat. I was never even in student government. I was just another guy except for a few quirks here and there. I wasn’t a loud guy and I wasn’t the talkative type. I was very laid back. People thought I was soft. I was bullied as a kid all the way until high school. I had co-workers treating me like they were my boss. I had people who tended to have filters unleash everything negative they thought about me. And I just let it happen. I thought cool heads prevailed but the reality is that I sure as hell didn’t prevail in any way. I became an angry and bitter person, towards women and particularly towards men.

    I didn’t have good relationships with people in general. My 1st gf cheated and didn’t give a damn. I left my 2nd because I was paranoid she would leave me first. I didn’t make any real friends until I was in 7th grade and that all kind of went to nothing – we just all went our separate ways. One of them in particular said something I didn’t like and I started a fight over it. We haven’t talked in YEARS. And to be fair, I spit in his face. I shouldn’t have done that but in the moment, I felt I had every justification to go up to him and just do it. You have to learn to live with regrets and of the little amount of regrets I have, that’s one of them.

    I went to an all-boys high school and again, I wasn’t on the basketball team. I was on the chess team but that’s nothing to write home about. There’s not as much money in chess as there is basketball. And if you don’t get a trophy, you don’t get any glory. I just did it because I had nothing else. All I had was video games and a nice, comfortable room in my house to be in. And I lived that life throughout high school. I didn’t interact with girls until I went to college. And I didn’t have any friends either. The ones I had before were all doing something else.

    Then I went to college. I remember it being my 2nd or 3rd day and I saw this girl I was interested in. I went up to her, told her she was pretty and soon, we started walking together, holding hands and stuff. But we never did anything. Three weeks into the semester, I naively told her I liked her. Then I made things worse when I said I “really” liked her. She refused to go on a date with me and I just had to deal with it for the rest of the semester. She was in every class I had so if she wanted to flirt with another guy in the class, I would’ve seen it. And I did. And I was jealous. The only good thing that came out of it is that I became friends with two of the guys. One of them is just an acquaintance now. And I had a falling out with the other one.

    I had one gorgeous girl flirt with me the next semester but I blew it. I had several of them in fact. But I blew all those opportunities because 1) I was paranoid of rejection and 2) they were in my class. I lost count of all the girls I missed out on for those 2 reasons. And the thing is they were into me. I could tell. I always had a gift for reading people, even if I wasn’t the most socially adept guy in the world.

    Fast forward to a few years later. It was the end of my Junior year. I went to sit next to a girl and she just got up and walked. The whole class saw it. The professor had a helpless look on his face and I had to have been worse. I was boiling. I felt myself getting redder and redder. It was like I was gonna have a nervous breakdown or something. It was either that day or the next day that I went to a prostitute and got laid on an airbed of all places. It was the most uncomfortable sex I’ve ever had. I didn’t have a gf and I didn’t have any prospects of having one. Having sex with that prostitute cleared things up for me though. I felt better and by the next time I was in that class, I didn’t give a damn about what had happened. Girls started being more flirty with me but the problem is I started taking them a lot less seriously. I didn’t want to be in any relationship and I didn’t want to do the work it would’ve taken to get these girls to take their panties off. So I just kept going to prostitutes and when I came to class, the girls were digging me more and more. And of course they didn’t know it. I just felt better, was more positive and people in general liked being around me more.

    I didn’t always have a great time going to a prostitute but when I did, it felt like every mental issue I had was gone. Elliot Rodger could’ve gotten himself a good one or two in Cali and this wouldn’t have happened. Not all prostitutes are all business. Some of them care to give a guy the GFE (Girlfriend Experience) and I think in this case, Rodger needed that.

  55. I posted the comment below on Chateau Heartiste yesterday but after reading the above post I think it also qualifies as a case study on how Game changed my life so I’m just reposting it here in thanks for the community that opened my eyes and dragged me out kicking and screaming.

    I came to the Rational Male relatively late (only the last few months) but it has really helped in developing my intellectual framework to understand interactions I see every day at a deeper level than “how to talk to women in bars” (as important as that is). A step in teaching how to fish instead of giving a man a fish, so to speak.

    Hey guys – first post/comment/FR here for YaReally in particular and anyone else to offer any thoughts you might have.

    I’ve been reading through a lot of CH in the last few months (and then systematically made my way through a lot of YaReally’s posts) and have completely had my mind blown with the new ways of thinking, even though I don’t agree with everything CH or the manosphere says.


    Mid-30s, Indian, 5’11″, slim build, slightly above average looks but nothing amazing. Prestigious professional job and elite education (the kind of thing that is likely to automatically drop me into “Provider” category). Incidentally – I’m an FOB and have never found that my accent holds me back (but I’ve been here a long time and I don’t sound like the waiter in your local Indian restaurant, and I speak perfect English and think in English – as in, I had a perfect 800 SAT verbal score even as a teenager, and all of that helps).

    Typical background to a lot of guys here – geeky/no social skills/total beta till early 20s (I did have friends though – was never a hermit). Lost a lot of opportunities, blah blah. First kiss at 23, first sex at 24. Read The Game at 24, took a Mystery Method bootcamp at 26 (when it was still called that) and improved rapidly for a few months (had my first SNL etc although that was basically a fools mate). Then got into a relationship for 5-6 years and only came out about 2 years ago and have been working on myself since then.

    My skills are okay – I’d say I’m a lower/intermediate PUA. Approaching is not a big deal (some AA always remains) and I’m reasonably comfortable with going out and getting into conversations with girls and hooking them. Escalating and closing remain weaknesses – particularly doing it consistently (and I’m not talking superhotties here). I tend to get into conversations and hook and chat but then it sort of fades away without any sexual tension or good moment for a close. I’m generally a pretty sociable guy (and I need to be for work too) and I’m pretty good at being a strong social presence and telling stories and the like. Issues more around being alpha and sexual and escalating, esp in initial stages (I’m better at doing it on dates but need to improve that too). I also need to learn to build a connection and comfort/vibe with the girls.

    Total notch count – around 10-12.


    For complicated work reasons, I spend 8-9 months of the year in a small town where there’s basically no social life or girls and I pretty much have to work all the time (except for practicing online dating). The remaining 3-4 months of the year I’m in a big city with loads of girls and a flexible work schedule and I go out all the time (in practice it’s like 7-8 weeks in Small Town and then 2-4 weeks in Big City depending on my schedule). This won’t change for the next couple of years – I know it’s far from ideal but I have to work within it for now even if it means my skills atrophy when not being used..there’s an element of 2 steps forward/1 step back.

    I’ve been doing a lot of online dating because of my work logistics (I set up dates for when I come to the big city) and once I get them on the date, I’d say more than 2/3s end in makeouts (and the majority of the makeout dates I could bang eventually, and I do bang the odd one, but sometimes they are so boring or I can sense that it will take a while and I can’t be bothered to put in the work, especially with my limited time in the big city).

    Have had a couple of reality blasting experiences through the online dating though in the last couple of years (not enough to completely shatter old mindsets but enough to shake them up).

    I should add incidentally that I long ago got over any “race” BS and how being Indian would mess up my game. It was an issue in my head in my 20s but I have literally never found it to be an issue in practice (well – it’s an issue with online dating where it’s a bit of a problem because they only see their stereotype of you, but not in person where they get to see the whole package). Also note that ALL of the women I’ve slept with have been white/black/East Asian – never slept with an Indian.


    First was a date with a genuinely stunning model level 24 year old blonde HB9 (she did actually use to be a model in Eastern Europe). The kind of woman who normally doesn’t Internet date. I basically messaged every girl online on the site and it was a cold Wednesday night and I think she was bored and looking to go out that night so she literally wrote back “how about tonight?” and I got a real shock when I turned up and she looked even better than the pictures. For those of you guys who have not experienced being with a truly beautiful woman – I cannot tell you the rush of just being in a bar with her and just holding hands and walking her back after the bar, and seeing all the guys check her out and thinking “every guy on the street would kill to be in my place right now”. Or when I was kissing her in the bar, I was literally thinking “I can’t believe *I’m* actually making out with this girl”.

    Anyway, that date ended in a makeout session (not a very heavy one) although I could tell she wasn’t totally into it – the whole date was like that – I know she had fun but I could also see I hadn’t really really hooked her properly (a couple of times during the date, I did properly spike her BT and that was amazing to see). I didn’t see her again but that experience I will never forget.


    Second was another first online date with a fun, wild blonde HB7 (cute but nothing amazing). Basically one of those times when your game just “clicks” and everything just works (it wasn’t a “fools mate” though – I did actually have to seduce her – she didn’t start out liking me). It was like every game principle in action and applied flawlessly (largely by fluke). Within 45 minutes of meeting her, we were making out. Within 1 hr 15 min, it was so fucking passionate that it was obvious she was really turned on – to the point she was pretty much climbing on top of me (we were in a quiet lounge bar- I was genuinely concerned we’d be kicked out).

    After 2 hours I genuinely needed to go meet other friends and we got up and out of some unknown but god-sent impulse I just told her “I’m going to take you downstairs [to the toilets]“. At this point even I didn’t really know why I’d said that – just that it felt like a good idea. I think I may also have said something like “I want to kiss you properly”. She looked really surprised but didn’t object and I (instinctively) just kept moving like it was a done deal and overpowered her frame. We walked down the stairs to the deserted corridor where the toilets were and she pretty much just *attacked* me the way she jumped me – I don’t think I have ever felt such raw unleashed passion from a woman. I opened the toilet door and got her into a toilet stall with absolutely zero resistance and she gave me a fantastic BJ (and swallowed).

    Then she wanted to come home and continue but I genuinely had to meet someone and had to ditch her – the thing that blew my mind the most in all this was that SHE thanked ME. Several times. For the privilege of giving me a blowjob with no reciprocation. It’s hard to describe – it’s like she was so incredibly pumped and had this amazing rush from the experience of what we’d done together unexpectedly – of giving ME a blowjob. Anyway we met up a few days later she became a fuckbuddy for a (very brief) period – until I had to go back to the small town. The sex was great – totally uninhibited in the sack (the kind of girl who would have been ideal to have had a threesome with). If anything I think I should have toned *down* my “datey” instincts and made her even more explicitly an FB.


    A third one – I met in a bar, not online. It was a fairly standard bar pickup -20 year old Swedish chick with me in my mid 30s (not superhot but HB7 and good attitude and fun to hang out with). Basically a textbook illustration on what women will do when they like you. I number-closed both her and her HB8 friend but the HB7 texted me the next day (presumably to make sure I didn’t hit on her friend first). She liked me and wanted to bang me so it was all EASY. She just made it so easy to meet up, to bang, everything. No hassle, no games, no BS. First date ended in a big makeout session and could easily have been a lay but this was quite a while ago and that hadn’t penetrated my reality yet so I didn’t even try.

    Second date I just told her to come to my place and put on a DVD and escalated and banged her with zero LMR (she was really shocked that I actually made her come and said most guys can’t do that). She told me she had been “so wet” during our first date and would have come home with me if I’d tried. Anyway, she was a fantastic FB for several months and we did some really cool sexual shit (despite me vanishing out of town on work for 2-3 months at a time) and it only faded away when she got a boyfriend. While she wasn’t as inherently “wild” as the toilet BJ girl, the sex was fantastic as long as I guided her – you know there are people with whom you just have fantastic sexual chemistry? She was one.

    It was a new experience for me – being the guy giving her amazing sexual experiences and being told how horny I made her and how she viewed me through such a (positive) sexual lens. It’s like – for once, *I* was the “bad boy guy” giving her amazing sex and amazing memories in a nonjudgmental way- not a “provider/relationship” guy I normally get pegged as.


    Anyway- the above are some of my greatest hits – plenty of other not-great experiences and fuckups though which I haven’t mentioned (but which I learnt a lot from). Most of the above actually happened in 2013. 2014 has been much less profitable in terms of actual closes and notches and results (in large part because I lost my best wingman and it’s insanely hard finding a good wingman you vibe with and even worse trying to do it alone) but I’ve made a lot of inner game progress and I’m understanding the matrix better (I learnt about hypergamy in 2014 for example, and a lot of AA conquering has been in 2014, as well as starting to learn about text game and being more alpha in my behaviour generally in life). When I hit the next purple patch I’m sure I’ll do even better.

    Not to sound all fanboyish about the PUA community- but it really is the most incredible journey of personal growth and I never thought I’d be doing this in my mid 30s. I always told myself as a geeky 19 year old that one day I’d be “good” with women and by the standards of that 19 year old, I can look myself in the mirror and honestly say I’ve far exceeded that goal – some of the experiences I described above would be unthinkable to 19 year old me who just wanted to date a few girls and have a nice girlfriend. I can now relatively easily get a decent girlfriend from my social circle and be pretty happy, and I no longer miss obvious opportunities and IOIs.

    But now that I’m here – I want to get better – I want to get *good* – higher quantity (to build reference experiences), then higher quality as well, and a much deeper and broader internal identity rewiring (even more than I’ve done so far). And then beyond – into social skills and social dynamics beyond pickup and women (although I’m already pretty good at that stuff by most people’s standards).

  56. Old Married Guy here to chime in about the value of the manosphere and game. I have been married for 20+ years and have been faithful all that time as I underwent total emasculation and beta-ization at the hands of society, myself, and my wife. Towards the end, just about a year ago, I was suicidal if not homicidal. I was preparing my exit, getting a divorce complaint together, preparing to abandon my family and leave.

    I was on the IV sex program (just enough to keep you alive) for decades and I had enough. I hated my wife. The sound of her voice was like scraping nails on a chalk board. All our kids were doing poorly in school and home life was constant conflict. Truly a living hell. I had enough and I wanted a divorce.

    Then I discovered the manosphere. I discovered Game, The Rational Male, The Red Pill, MMSL, Dalrock and many others. I learned about Alpha and Beta behaviors and female attraction cues. I figured out what I was doing wrong and I started a plan. I changed many things. I started talking to girls in public, in front of my wife and hit her with the HARD dread, showing her that I was a man with options. I began passing her intricate shit tests (my wife is a very intelligent business lawyer). After that I started exploding her shit tests and she can usually catch herself now (cuz I am going to be making fun of her for the rest of the night if she slips). I demanded respect and support, and a respectful tone from her at all times. In turn I promised to give her only positive, warm, masculine energy, drive, and support. Basically I promised her I would be good if she would be good. I will be the man if you will be the woman. She was supportive but cautious. I had to fake good feelings and a good attitude before I actually felt it but it did not take long.

    When I started gaming her, everything changed in just a few months. The nasty shrew, critical of everything, angry and unhappy woman I was living with turned into a sweet, loving, kind, and passionate woman who almost walks on air when she is home. Game and learning Kino, and seduction techniques did that. Me rediscovering my inner Alpha and finally letting out the midnight howls did that. Me taking charge of the relationship and stepping up as Captain of the ship and appointing her to the position of my Executive Officer did that. I started worshiping at the Iron Temple and got pretty huge in just a few months. I became a better man. Would you believe that she became a better woman?

    Our kids are now under control and doing well in school. We have sex several times a week. She calls me during the day because she wants to hear my voice. In our 40’s and married for 20+ years and we spent almost the entire day Saturday in bed.

    Everything runs smoothly in our house. We exchange positive energy. Our home is full of laughter and the sound of children running and playing.

    TLDR: Game is not just for pickup artistry but is essential to marriage. Game works to attract and excite girls. Did you forget your wife was a girl? Thanks Rollo!

  57. The 3 takes I most wanted on Elliot Rodger were Roissy, Rollo, and M3. I read Roissy’s take yesterday, and got a 2-for-1 with Rollo’s OP and M3 in the comments here. Thank you.

    It’s tricky commenting on Rodger because the formative experiences he relates in his manifesto resonate; but of course, I don’t want to be labeled as sympathetic and identifying with a mass murderer. However, Rodger’s problem of incel, sexual alienation, or whatever you want to call it, is a serious problem shared by many men, and running away from Rodger feels like abandoning the problem. I can see the points where Rodger detours from blue-pill everyman to homicidal crazy, but I expect FI-biased pundits will erase those lines to stigmatize the common problem rather than push a social frame conducive to solving the common problem.

    Which is to say, it’s important for the Manosphere to maintain a constructive frame as best we can. Rodger isn’t a hero. He was a crazed killer of innocents. But the FI-biased MSM will try to stigmatize the common problem by conflating it with Rodger’s crime and that can’t be accepted.

  58. @M3

    It’s strange. I was in his exact same shoes.. and i have come to a point in my life where i cannot relate to him. I have digested and internalized the red pill so much, i cannot remember what it was like to actually live and feel the way he felt. I KNOW i occupied that space, but life has changed so much for me since i found and adopted the sphere and its core messages of internal change – i do not watch those videos of him and say ‘ya, i feel ya’.. i wince and i cringe.

    Ultimately at my worst, i was only capable of offing myself. I never felt grand designs of killing anyone else. But every so often, out of thousands of men who quietly commit suicide to end their pain, a few want to share the pain. You can use the same drug on a 1000 people, and you might get 1% to have an allergic reaction to it. So too is it with incels. Most nice guys really want meaningful relationships. A few like this guy really just wanted the trophy because they’re so insecure they require that validation from outside to define them.

    I do not want to belittle your old pain, or other’s ongoing pain, but I think it’s worth a side-glance at all the men who while experiencing similar circumstances, are unable to pull the trigger. Statistics tell us of the hordes of men who never see the doctor, never lift a finger to take care of themselves. These guys never lift. They don’t run. They don’t eat right. When they feel their blood pressure get high and their lungs get tight, they don’t get a diagnosis. They ignore lumps in their body. They commit suicide-by-ignoring-it, and plenty more men than those who go murder-rampage do this. My grandfather did this after divorce, and an impossibly tough level of survivors-guilt from WW2.

    The society that does not value its men will find that its men do not value themselves, and without guidance they will act accordingly.

  59. Jeremy,

    That’s what makes talking about Rodger tricky. Stigmatizing Rodger’s stated motive, twisted as it became due to his psychosis, devalues men.

    The challenge is spotlighting the common problem that Rodger shared, championing men, and holding the frame for solution, while avoiding the political trap of defending a crazed mass murderer.

  60. I’m now reassessing Rodger as a Sleeping Beauty, not a Handsome Prince. He was too too passive.

  61. I just wanted to thank everyone who’s related a story thus far. You may think they’re long, but I’m making a special effort to read (not skim) all of them.

    I think you’re reading me wrong here.

    1. You’re entirely correct. The kid was on psychotropics and anti-depressants, but refused to take them after a while. The guy wasn’t right mentally, and I’m sure this was the root of his misanthropy.

    On a subconscious level, human being are attuned to behaviorisms, vocal cues and other subcommunications that another person is not mentally healthy. We often have to be taught to filter these cues out in order to relate (or help) these people, but I have no doubt any and every girl he actually made an attempt with probably picked up on his obvious lack of social intelligence and mental state.

    2. Which is why I specifically stated that I doubted that Game or his even managing to attract some kind of girlfriend would’ve have helped him any. As I stated Game saves lives, but that person has to come to terms with the existential crisis associated with unplugging and red pill awareness for Game to have any benefit for him.

    In this kid’s mental illness, reconciling the way he thought things ought to be with how whatever brief experience he had with the red pill (i.e. PUAHate, etc.) had revealed to him was the catalyst for his unravelling. I don’t believe a better, healthier understanding of Game could’ve stopped him, but that nihilism that comes from unplugging was most certainly instrumental in pushing him to the edge.

    3. After stating this in my post I’m not sure why you’d believe I’m entirely in agreement with Roosh in particular.

    I don’t believe Rodger was self-loathing, actually quite the reverse – he had an obsessive-compulsive sense of self-aggrandizement. Nor do I think he was a closeted homosexual, he wanted desperately to experience the women he believed he deserved. Neither was he despondent – he had a manic sense of purpose and entitlement.

    And while we still don’t know all of the details yet, I’d most certainly agree with the rest of your assessment about this guy and his murder spree.

  62. @Glenn

    The idea that game could have saved this kid is absurd. He “failed” at game – how can you ignore that Rollo?

    Glenn, you repeat often in your comment that this kid was highly disturbed. I do not disagree with you on this point. You watched Stefan’s video about him, so I have to assume you’re likely quite familiar with Stefan’s major premises about mental illness. That is, that mental illness does not spring out of a vacuum, it is almost always traceable back to parenting.

    Since I believe you and I both are on the same page that mentally disturbed men do not simply pop out of the aether as a result of quantum randomness, we have to consider that his parents/guardians bear nearly sole blame for his mental illness. Are we with each other so far?

    Now, lets presume we live in a world where masculinity, and the struggle to achieve some measure of it, was celebrated and protected, even legislated into culture in some fashion much like title 9 attempts to force a square peg of equality into the round hole of reality. Given such a (presumed) environment, I would assume the men around this boys life would have recognized much earlier that he needed some proper masculine exposure. They should have seen that he needed some encouragement to take the road of challenge and given proper instruction into the reality of the social contract between the sexes. Stefan may call it parenting, but the reality is that in such a situation, fathers would teach their sons all the game they could. Instead, young boys are neglected by their parents, given almost no instruction as to how to attract women. Large numbers of them spend high school at the mercy of feminine rules and bullies brought into existence by the restriction of male aggression (that’s right, the restriction of it). Meanwhile, every girl gets motherly instruction on makeup, appropriate dress, body shaping, hair styling, etc.. And they get all the protection of every imaginable police force from the time they’re born.

    Boys in this situation are fireworks waiting to go off. When you throw them into a culture that simply ignores the raising of males, leaving them to the wind because they do not value them, you have a situation where parents who are not involved are possibly raising disturbed individuals.

    Your claim, that “game” could never have saved this kid, is shortsighted because you presume that game is something you’re supposed to learn from a website. You fail to consider that game is something that fathers are supposed to teach to their sons. Stefan calls it parenting. In reality, it’s merely a father teaching his son about the world, and how to be a worthy specimen of masculinity within it.

  63. One thing I’ve noticed about allegations that Elliot Rodger was a misogynist and attempts to attach this incident to the manosphere.

    Was he misogynist?

    He killed more men than women.

    He expressed a hatred of romantically and sexually successful, popular and happy women AND men, not solely women.

    The only hatred he expressed was to a system that he perceived shut him out of the mating market.

    That’s not a hatred of women, that’s a hatred of the system.

    So how can it be misogynist?

    The only way hatred of a system can be misogynist is if that system in some way serves women.

    But not all women, as feminists always claim misogyny against women themselves who advocate policies and systems that are non-feminist.

    Ergo, the only way a hatred of a system can be misogynist is if that system in some way serves feminists.

    So when feminists say Elliot Rodger was a misogynist, they are implicitly admitting that this system serves them. Or in other words that this is their system. That they run the show. That they’re in power and that the sexual market-place before us has been constructed by feminism to be the way it is to serve feminists.

    Their allegations of misogyny against Elliot are basically admissions that they are the establishment.

  64. I discovered Game through Vox Day and Dalrock in my mid-thirties by sheer accident. I was taught and attempted the usual blue-pill advice with the usual results with one exception. Married men, whom I sought for advice (they were the dating success stories, right?), kept telling me that marriage wouldn’t help with my sex drive, that I could have a wife and still be very lonely, that the ONLY legitimate purpose of marriage was having children. That was not what I read in the Bible, however. Better married than burning. Marriage demonstrates the relationship between Christ and his Church. I trusted the Bible but why were so many married Christian guys telling me the exact opposite?

    I couldn’t solve the problem so I tried to choke down my hormones and redirect my energies elsewhere. Didn’t know what else to do. Women were always distant. Polite, and distant. In fairness, I was never quite comfortable around them, either. We always seemed to talk past each other in conversation.

    On Alphagameplan I absorbed the red pill instantly, a hundred data points suddenly making a coherent picture. Why had I not figured it out for myself? Because I’m a late bloomer and everybody had lied to me. Everybody, except those guys who gave me opposite-of-the-Bible marriage advice. Looking back, I think they had been ruined by unhappy wives and were trying to protect me from sharing their fate. Looking back, I’m grateful.

    I don’t think I can use Game to find a wife. There’s too much baggage, too much time spent at Zero, too many horror stories. But I’ll tell you what I can use Game for.

    I am furious at the American Church. I read many comments on forums like this one from guys raised in Christ but poisoned by the neglect, shaming and outright betrayal of Churchian leaders. There is no excuse for driving men away from Christ because it’s the path of least resistance in modern society. For claiming the Bible doesn’t mean what it says. For blaming men for the actions of women. I will teach Game to my fellow Christians. If trained, ordained and experienced church leaders will not or cannot teach the truth about male and female behavior, and uphold basic teachings like marriage, then I will. Thank you, manosphere, for giving me the tool to kill these lies taught in Christ’s name.

  65. Like clockwork, they’re lining up on MSNBC to concoct baseless insinuations that the ‘Sphere is responsible for this evil mass-murder.

    This was aired tonight, specifically targeting Return of Kings and Red Pill Room on Reddit (where Rollo did an enlightening Q&A a couple weeks ago):

    Then there’s this horribly disjointed piece with Jessica Valenti and a ‘mom against gun violence’ where they’re talking about two wildly different, palpably awkwardly tied-in issues – and Chris Hayes is falling all over himself to segue smoothly from one topic to the other:

  66. @Rollo

    > They resort back to the only thing they knew, Beta Game

    Sorry, but this description of Puahate is completely incorrect. The mantra on that site was “Looks, Money, Status”. They believed feminine attraction was mostly primal instinct based on masculine aesthetics and actual social power.

    Also, FYI, the rules on that site stated it was a “troll forum”. The site population was largely trolls, post-pua gamers, and gay guys into male beauty. And trolls. It was the kind of place that makes absolutely no sense on a cursory reading, so it’s no surprise that both PUAs and Feminists are projecting onto it. (Feminists think it was a MRA forum, just the opposite of your interpretation.) It’s also just the kind of place where someone seriously nuts like Rodgers just faded into the background noise.

    Like it or not, places like this are the ugly underbelly of the manosphere. Nobody ends up on Puahate without bouncing through Heartiste or RSD first. Tell men about hypergamy and “20% of men have sex with 80% of women” and some of them are bound to mentally break and go insane. And the trolls are there waiting for them to egg them on.

    Of course everyone now needs to go through the act of “ritual disownership” and you obviously do to. Just something for folks to munch on, I hope.

  67. Also I highly suspect that “chris” is some kind of feminist troll. Rodgers manifesto directly stated he wanted women put into concentration camps. He was clearly a misogynist, hateful misanthrope, and so on. Hopefully nobody is trying to salvage his reputation. If you are, move on to the successor site for puahate.

  68. Softek,

    “I am still struggling with self-destructive behavior, and I’m having problems implementing Game into my life despite reading about it for months …”

    One possibility, which has worked for people in similar situations, is to focus on, and dedicate as much time as you possibly can, to something that is part of your ongoing development, but which will give you immediately achievable, and ongoing, measurable results, like bodybuilding or strength training.

    This, in and of itself, will not implement Game into your life, or provide all of the necessary catalysts of which you were deprived throughout your life.

    The purpose of this would be to provide one stable basis (and one is all that you actually need), an always present positive momentum in your life, to which to anchor yourself. A bit later, this ends up being the foundation that enables you to implement the other pieces much more easily.

    “Even just the other night I was feeling so tormented by hopelessness and loneliness and the despair that I’m never going to be able to get out of my head I almost decided to kill myself. Just ended up getting drunk and cutting myself again.”

    You will not be able to get them out of your head, by trying to get them out of your head. And going back mentally to repeatedly analyze and try to “fix” what happened in the past is not necessary, and doesn’t really work anyway.

    The hopelessness and loneliness and the despair will leave only when they are superseded and, counterintuitively, the least effective approach is to try to replace them mentally with the opposite of hopelessness, loneliness and despair.

    A very effective, and also the easiest, approach is to build and create something significant, physically. Bodybuilding is one effective option, but my favorite has been to have people build houses. To have them work, even for free, as apprentice carpenters, and actually saw, nail, glue and screw together the supporting structures for houses.

    Whenever you build and create, in whichever way is appealing to you, and especially in environments in which the old ruts don’t have to be relevant, aspects within you, and then around you, necessarily start to change automatically, and the negative and damaging start to dry up and blow away without your even noticing.

    A later, and more advanced, continuing recovery option is building and creating through your imagination, and nontraditional hypnotherapist Jack True shared some interesting ideas about that, in interviews that are available as PDFs.

    Best wishes.

  69. I don’t want to be too forthcoming about a former mentor of mine who’s now broke, down-and-out, and helped me a lot with my inner work – but PUAHate actually was the source whereby we vetted this former mentor’s claims and found him to be acting dishonestly. It was actually a useful site for vetting purposes. The cached links didn’t lie.

  70. Softek (thanks Eon for the heads up to help a struggling brother out) –

    I think you’ve gotta put yourself out there. Volunteer meetup groups, happy hour groups, church groups – there are social resources with people just like you who would love to connect with you and form new friendships…and women who’d want more. There is a seriousness to that level of self-harming tendency and you’ve gotta move forward from that. Consider getting out of your house especially at night. One easy way to ease into the bar scene is to go, find a seat, ‘watch the game’ and just chat with the people around you casually about that, foray into other casual topics. I’ve given this counsel to other guys who were sort of bound up at a crossroads, and it helped them move forward and the 2nd or 3rd time they did that, they maybe danced with a girl or got some indicators of interest from a woman. You can take these steps and still have time to grieve and sorrowfully reflect, if you still need to do so. But I’d love to see you force yourself to get out of your comfort zone and create some social abundance, which will lead to sexual opportunities…

    All the best. -S.

    By the way, when (not if, but when) you take a whole bunch more steps forward, I think you’re gonna be uniquely able to help a lot of guys out due to your background, past experience, and all the shit you’re overcoming.

  71. This is the price of unrestrained female hyper-gamy. This is it. Back when civilization was not in rapid decline some father would have given this kid his virgin daughter knowing better than her that this guy would take care of her and his grandchildren. The sex would have dissolved his anger and he’d have been fine. Now we select for thugs and criminals because that’s what women left to their own devices choose to sleep with – too bad you can’t base a civilization on it.

    This kid killed a bunch of people because he’s been lied too all his life about what women are and he couldn’t square his idealism with reality. Sugar and spice ain’t it. In the future the old ways will return but only when men are free to restrain the worst in women. This will happen long after I’m dead but it will happen. Until then it isn’t guns, or prozac, or bad parenting, that caused this its lies, pride, and more lies which our culture celebrates as in born rights. Too bad. Alas Babylon.

  72. If I were to dabble in armchair psychology I’d say it looks like an open and shut case of Narcassistic Rage. With plenty of rage.

  73. You would not believe how many divorced men find themselves in lethal situations, many of my clients told me that they were comtemplating suicide…but, ulitmately decided to live for the sake of children, God, name it.

    I have mentioned it several times that the vast majority of men are slaves and “nice guys”. They WANT to sacrifice for women, they WANT to slave them, they WANT their soul myth romance to happen. Almost EVERY married guy is somehow “nice guy”. HE BELIEVED his wife, to the extent that he had sacrificed his freedom for her….ultimately nice guy. When you throw at such men the harsh reality of female nature, the result might be dangerous.

    In order to be able to provide, protect…women……you have to BELIEVE in something!! You HAVE to believe somehow in realtionship equity. You have to believe that it has some …purpose. You certainly won´t sacrifice your freedom for opportunistic, hyperagmic creature, or just to get laid, would you?

    As far as I am concerned, I learnt the truth about the nature on women in divorce cours. I witnessed it countless times…dark places. Real nature of women does not manifestate itself when they are “in looove” or when they “neeed you”.. it shows in moments when she does not need you and she is free to do whatever she wants, free to show her true colour. I realized the truth of old saying that women do not have a soul.

    Believe me or not…she is ANIMAL..cold, utilistic, without conscience, memory, opportunistic. She DOES not care about you in ultimate sense. Either you tame her – or she might kill you, Do not underestimate women. If you somehow have power over yourself..then you have at least something.

    Since I understood them, I am not able to have any kind of “serious” realtionship with women. I know her nature. I believe and trust women to be women. I still use women for pleasure, occasional company, fun and sex…but nothing more. This is how they should be used and how they can benefit us, I think.

  74. @Hobbes

    “living in constant Alpha mode can be its own hell as well and something not even natural Alphas do 100% of the time, or MGTOW and really sacrifice all contact at all. You have to find your own balance, your own way. There is no short cut”

    Quite insightful and very true. As Rollo notes, it’s us making our own individual plan based on a map of sorts. What’s good for one may not be good for another, and the rules you write in your life plan do not always apply.

    I’m one of those “natural alphas” after a fashion (grew up around beautiful women and thus they hold no “magic” that I fear, am a biker, tall, extreme confidence, etc), but still will do something “beta” from time to time, not so much for the woman but because it makes me feel good to do. Not a position of supplication, but one of charity, where I’m the benefactor and she/they are the poor and desperate. Quick example, this last weekend was at a bar with a good band playing, and a woman I know (long time acquaintance, highly attractive, already has a boyfriend) was there with her work friends. She was drunk. Clearly drunk in a way that can’t be faked even by the professionals. Ok, fine, whatever, not my problem. A group of small, oily men from (I assume) India or Pakistan saunter in the bar, group up and start scoping out the place for easy targets. When you’re used to the scene you know what they’re doing immediately and that they didn’t even bother ordering drinks before fanning out to hit on women was a big tell. Still, not my concern, I have my own life to live. One of them walks up behind my friend and does a very leering up and down, while she is nearly passed out (I had considered calling her a cab just prior to this point) and then strides on over in all 5’2″ of his curry smelling manliness and starts hitting on her in a major way. She is barely cognizant but she does manage to look up with what was clear fear in her eyes while he stood there leering and grinning like the Cheshire cat. So yeah, I white knighted. Walked over and told the guy that she was too drunk to consent to anything and that she’d be leaving now. He skulks off to his posse who all glared at me (their attempts had failed as well apparently), I call some of her work friends over to help her out of the bar and a cab is called, into which she was poured. The whole time she was mumbling “Thank you, thank you so much Burninator, thank you”.

    In any other context I would have been the douchey cock blocker, but she really was wasted bad (couldn’t walk without assistance, stumbled a lot, head down on the table prior to the guy approaching, etc) and clearly didn’t want the guy around but was too shitfaced to process her reactions. If she had been a really drunk male friend who was getting scammed/pick pocketed I would have done the same thing. Because it’s just basic human decency, and it conforms to a man’s natural sense of honor and fair play. So yeah, it’s a balance and you’re never 100% even if you’re a natural, sometimes that deep ingrained sense of justice and honor grips you, hard, and you respond. At no point did I think it would somehow get me laid with her or any of that other expectation/transaction bullshit that blue pillers believe, it was just something right that I’d hope any person would do in the circumstances for any other person.

    As to the Rodgers punk, well, I really don’t know what to say that hasn’t been said already. He was such a prime example of the blue pill that it almost seems like he was a parody of the type. Had I seen his posts/videos prior to the event I would have laughed them off as a mockery of that kind of person. I also think that mental illness and psychotropic medication played a bigger role in this than any kind of red/blue pill philosophical engagement, and no amount of Game would have helped him, he was simply a mentally bent individual. The #mememewomanmememe thing won’t accept that of course, and if it weren’t so gruesome I’d almost find it side splittingly funny to watch the narrative about a guy who killed four men and two women, who railed against not only women but also men, be turned into “misogyny!”. Pathetic crap, but expected, they have no other way to react and preserve their false reality.

  75. Creatine? Oh man, they’re really reaching now.

    So a guy hates women and men pretty much equally, and despises the manosphere. He kills four men and two women. The press message then is:

    Stupid manosphere dunnit!
    weightlifting is bad!

    No, we don’t have an anti-male culture, nah, it’s all an illusion.

  76. Funny how the mass media will blame the rampage on anything other than his (relatively late) virginity, while calling him the “virgin killer”. The presumption of female entitlement to full sexual control is so deep, that the notion that a healthy society requires that women give it up cannot even be hinted at.

    If you reversed the scenario entirely. If you had a society where men were given indisputable financial control of their lives at all times and were extraordinarily picky w.r.t. who they gave their extra production to, it wouldn’t look much different. Yes, most men are currently fairly generous with their surplus labor/production. But what if all men were deceived into believing that all women were simply black holes and should receive almost nothing of a man’s resources? What if all men were taught from an early age that women just want to make slaves of them? You’d have random borderline-disturbed women going nuts and murdering people because men married them and used them for sexual services without giving them a dime, no gifts, no clothes, keeping them essentially as indentured sexual servants. You’d have a media that talked about how absurdly strange these women are, how misandrist they must be to shoot up men all because they “felt entitled” to a man’s surplus production. They would label one of them “leech killer” (because she would need to be labelled as some kind of crazy drain on male resources just for offering sex) while offering confusing stories about how her hatred of men and her feelings of entitlement to male resources drove her to murder half as many innocent males as females. This “leech killer” would have snapped because she spent time watching other women receive gifts from their husbands, while she received barely enough food to survive.

    Society only works peaceably when there’s a relatively equal share of give and take across the sexes, but the media would have you believe that no man is entitled to access to a woman’s body. I wonder how many of those women would feel if the situation was reversed, and the media were instead saying, “no woman is entitled to a man’s wealth.”

  77. Jeremy
    “If you reversed the scenario entirely.”

    Why even use financial analogy. Let’s just flip it entirely as it stands today.

    Imagine men were universally chased by women, they had an urge have sex everyday because they produced eggs every day. Men only build up sperm and go into ‘heat’ few days a month. All the burden is on them to make the move, garner attention of men, compete and fight for men by having to work out every day to become slimmer and hotter and more submissive than the next woman. Men could pick up relationships on a whim, women would not be in charge of when sex took place.

    The power that men would hold, ALL men, simply for having been born men.. to be chased by the opposite sex for nothing more than having the luxury and good luck of being born a man because the woman is biologically programmed to want to mate as often as possible.

    The power that men would have in rejecting women they find substandard.

    These men currently do exist. Women complain about them all the time. The George Cloony’s, playboys and players.

    ““no woman is entitled to a man’s wealth.””

    that was the goal of feminism. to give women financial freedom. to remove the reciprocal trade off that women despised in the past. Having to lay down with unattractive men in exchange for provisioning. Now women have both financial power and sexual power. Yet they will feign shock when you tell them they still hold the sexual power.. at which point they start harping about all the sexual power men have.. the ones they can see, not the invisible men. And the ones they can see are the top apex alphas that hold the same power over women that most women hold over men.

    Absolute power corrupts…

  78. @ M3

    interesting. But imagine, men do not give a fuck about recognition by women, imagine that men need and see her just as a disposable sex tool…imagine that men tamed their ego, their nature of a slave to women, their innermost need to please and satisfy woman, to provide and protect her. Imagine they stop to see interests of women as more important to their own ones.

    Imagine they see women as they are – ultimately sexual creatures, creatures of flesh. Imagine that they PREFERRED sex with high class hooker to relationship with less beautiful woman…it is all about sex, isn´t it? Imagine that men were not this poor slaves of hormones forced to KILL somebody if they are not sticking their pissed meat into some wet hole for a couple of months/years..

    Women WILL DO ANYTHING, ANYTHING to have attention of men, they will be our sex slaves in a minute and for eternity.

    But we, men, are our biggest enemy..we enslave ourselves in our very heads, women just pick us, when we are ready. We were born slaves and unfortunatelly, we remain slaves for all our fucking life. I could count free and respectable men I know on the fingers of one hand.

    So…the new generation of lambs rises, primed for slaughter as the last.

  79. First of all, another brilliant article Rollo. Whether “Game” could have saved this “Virgin Killer” (as they are so happy to deem him), is an interesting debate. However, much like Rollo pointed out, you have to accept YOU are the one who needs to change, and I think with mental illness that is tougher than any red pill to swallow. You have to admit that you NEED to change, or all this reading and understanding is all but wasted. Our society wants everything to be a quick fix, quick diagnosis, immediate validation (social media), somebodyelse’s fault, but internalizing “Game” (which I believe applies to much more than getting women) is a process. Having gone through this, I allowed myself to see great progress, and yes at times I did find myself slipping into old “beta patterns”, becoming bitter, but overall I allowed myself to have those feelings, but recognized what I was doing wrong. Much like an alcoholic, you have to one day go into a bar, and be strong enough to not drink. And that is what the red pill or “Game” really is, understanding you are human, but also understanding human nature, both male and female. Again, what happened is a tragedy, and mental illness played a huge part of this, let alone his not understanding of the opposite sex. Mental illness is very prevalent, I’ve experienced in my own personal life with friends, family, co-workers etc, so I’ve seen what it can do to a person. But, for me, through tragedy there is always a silver lining. For example, how many men reflected on their own “blue pill behavior” in the past or present, when they watched his You tube videos. I can honestly say, at one time I had some of same viewpoints towards women in my life. Like life wasn’t fair, and I wanted justice for my daily blue pill diet. If you are honest, and I have to be with myself, at some level it resonated when I watched what he wrote and spoke of in his videos. Now, by no means would I have gotten to that level, and became a killer, but I wasted a ton of anger, jealousy, and time thinking that I had more to offer than the “losers” women were having sex with.

    Anyway, the reason that I’m choosing to write today is for my personal story. I am 41, I discovered Rollo over 2 years ago, and my life has changed forever. I went through a horrible divorce, made every mistake there was to make with women and in life, until I swallowed the “red pill”. I knew I needed to accept that I was the one needing to change. I think once you accept your failures, mistakes, and your responsibility to yourself for your decisions good or bad with women or with life, and you want to change them, that is the path to true happiness. It was a gift I gave to myself, because I wanted to change, Rollo just showed me where it was.

    i know I’ve rambled, but I wanted to take the time to say “Thank You Rollo” a the risk of sounding cliche, but you did save my life, in more ways than you could ever understand, and I’m forever grateful.

  80. Elliot Rodger’s manifesto didn’t indicate positive masculinity, a/k/a inner game, which is an essential element of the red pill emphasized throughout the different factions of the Manosphere.

  81. I truly believed this website along with No More Mr. Nice Guy! helped change my life for the better. For so many years I had everyone fooled that I was this cool, got his shit together guy but deep down I was a mess. I was a failure in almost ever aspect of my life from finances to women. I was a beta pushover that let everyone walk all over him and came back for more. I never disagreed, rocked the boat or had my own opinions. This site along with the above mentioned book helped me to let my nuts drop and not put up with others bullshit. My life thanks to Rollo and other commentors has done a complete 180. I thank you guys from the bottom of my heart, I can now look in the mirror and accept myself as being perfectly imperfect. I have a long long way to go but I am willing to put in the hard work even at the age of 43 to better myself for me and only me. The added bonus is that I pick and choose from the many women that in the past wouldn’t give me the time of day.

    Almost everyone that knew the old me comments on the new me and how I have changed. What a feeling it is to finally wake up in the morning and feel alive again! I now look forward to the future and what is possible instead of beating myself up and hating my life.

    This site also woke me up to the fact that I need to work on my reading and writing skills(I plan on going back to school part time next semester). I wore out my dictionary reading this site. The old me wouldn’t even have written this post because of the high intelligence of the writers here. But screw it man, I will get better.

    Thanks again Rollo!

  82. What I find interesting is how effectively feminism has managed to shape the conversation through framing, so that no even the people who disagree with feminism are forced to talk within feminism’s frame.

    There’s any number of topics that feminism has effectively prevented anyone from talking about:

    1. The trainwreck of socially acceptable dating advice.

    This guy is a psycho, but he reflects what non-psychotic guys (who drown their disappointment in wasting time and) experience – they keep hoping women will approach them, or they smiled at a girl once and she looked away, and they think this how others get girlfriends, so girls must be rejecting them, because all they’re told is that women don’t like men approaching them.

    2. The fact that he wrote a lot about hating women, but in reality killed mostly men. The main victims of his crime are men – feminism has done what it does and frame it as a crime against women where mostly women were hurt.

    On a sociopathic level, I have to applaud feminisms skill in turning a situation where a man rants about women but mostly horrifically kills men into a “women were hurt” issue.

  83. Slothrop said, “Of course everyone now needs to go through the act of “ritual disownership” and you obviously do to.”

    Be careful doing that. As Paul Rivers points out, the feminists are busy framing the narrative around Elliot Rodger to serve their agenda. A “ritual disownership” that, in its rush to bug out, cedes the frame to the feminists on the warpath will result in wider destruction.

  84. As far as whether Rodger was a misogynist, context matters. Rodger hated on women, yes, but he hated on women and men in a dyadic sexual context. Misogynistic doesn’t accurately describe Rodger outside of a description bundled with misandrist and misanthropic.

    Rodger is more accurately described as anti-human-sexuality.

    His enemy was man’s sexual nature, especially the derivative effects that hurt him, which were embodied in the “popular” and “cool” sexual women and men among his peers.

  85. “when my son is 13 or 14 I am going to take him to a big mall downtown and pay him $5 for every approach he makes and I’ll give him $20 for every number he gets from a chick. I will show him a huge wad of cash to motivate him and let him know he only has a few hours to do the deals. No fear, go get em son!”

    Good God… This is brilliant! I’m doing the same with my son. What a fantastic idea.

  86. All fathers should be coaching their sons on approaching, the same way mothers coach their daughters on looking their best.

  87. Comedian Chris Hardwick had a pearl of wisdom so great even he doesn’t comprehend its awesomeness. It’s the meme of the year:

    “You can’t tell the Internet not to do something!”

    The obvious corollary: even insiders at WordPress and BlogSpot can’t take down ANYTHING. It will pop up again, cached, somewhere. As John Oliver noted, ask the Spanish guy who got the EU court to force Google to take down the news of his house foreclosure, citing “privacy.” From now on, that house foreclosure is the only thing that guy will ever be known for.

  88. “when my son is 13 or 14 I am going to take him to a big mall downtown and pay him $5 for every approach he makes and I’ll give him $20 for every number he gets from a chick. I will show him a huge wad of cash to motivate him and let him know he only has a few hours to do the deals. No fear, go get em son!” – F#ck Yes.

    Same with lifting weights and at least 1 sport. That stuff needs to be PRAISED and REWARDED

  89. Put me down as one who sees nothing in this other than a case of malignant NPD with its roots in childhood years before his rejection by his first crush.

    No; game would not have saved him, a girlfriend would not have saved him – he was already lost before the issue of girls ever entered his mind.

    His narcisism was not the result of his interactions with women; his interactions with women were the result of his narcisism, which made him a pretty nasty little piece of work.

  90. I wonder…for every guy like this that goes out in a killing spree, how many more boys and men just shoot or hang themselves. The suicides, apart from friends and family, just become anonymous statistics.

    Feminist voices are doing the predictable: making it about women, perpetual victim-hood, and a justification for more control. I think in a feminist totalitarian utopia, loser males would be identified and drugged and/or rounded up…perhaps put in camps or forcibly segregated somehow. As it stands today, I think women-as-a-whole would prefer men like Eliot to just quietly shoot themselves. Male disposability.

Speak your mind

%d bloggers like this: