I revisited the topic of Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW) last Saturday on Rule Zero. I don’t like rehashing old debates I’ve learned will ultimately go nowhere. You simply wont reach most people who don’t want to be reached. Once they’ve had some experiential lessons in life, reinforced it with the tribalistic need to affirm the beliefs derived from that experience and then invest their egos in them it becomes kind of pointless. I’m not saying just give up on people, far from it, but do understand what you’re up against. This is why I say unplugging men from the Matrix is dirty work, and a lot like triage. Know what’s worth expending energy for.
Most men, and nearly all women, don’t form a belief set based on multiple, independently funded, peer reviewed studies or statistical analyses. We go with experience first and then modify it from there.
I did a bit of preparation for this talk. My schedule last Saturday only permitted me an hour so I wanted to be succinct and throw out at least something new to the conversation. There’s a lot of tribalism in the Manosphere today and it’s no surprise that MGTOW as a tribe in growing – but likely not for the reasons most MGTOW would be willing to admit. MGTOW is becoming atomized and commercialized in the same manner as I predicted the Red Pill would (and has) last year.
What that means is MGTOW is rapidly becoming the same commercial vehicle for grifters that the Red Pill was just a year and a half ago. Life Coaches, Relationship Experts, Fitness Gurus, even Christian men’s ministry pastors are all looking online to find out ‘where have all the men gone?’ When men were found in the Red Pill this is where the grifters would coalesce. Thus, you had every ‘brand-of-me’ self-improvement hack calling himself “red pill”. A few of them still do. A few of them read verbatim from my book(s) and plagiarize it as their own. But more now I see these same grifters referring to themselves as MGTOW without realizing (or even caring) what it really means to men.
MGTOW is the new ‘brand’ that lifestyle ‘coaches’ are adding to their twitter profiles and YouTube channel About pages. They see the potential for growth by association. Even if they get owned in their comments and feeds, adding the tag MGTOW will draw clicks. A few of these ‘coaches’ had a familiarity with the tribe and decided to finally commit in the hopes that it would boost views, others are former ‘power-of-positivity‘ life-coaches who slide into MGTOW because the definition of what makes a man “go his own way” is so loose now that it can align with virtually anything the guy had written about before his new affiliation.
It’s a real short step from “Make yourself your Mental Point of Origin” to “Make yourself #1 in your life” and then to “Go your own way.” I’ve had at least four “dating experts” (one female) claim Mental Point of Origin was their own idea in their subscriber emails as recently as August. Grifters used the Red Pill and are now using MGTOW to legitimize their brands today. In 2015 the MRAs decided to appropriate the Red Pill as their own brand to name a feminist’s “journey of self-discovery” movie The Red Pill. This appropriation is continuing with MGTOW now.
As I said on the Red Man Group back in May, the Red Pill is going to have a real PR problem in the coming year. Everything I predicted in my State of the Manosphere address a year ago has come to pass and I predict it will only intensify in the 2020 election cycle. The Gender War needs a convenient, easy-to-hate villain to point to in order to reinforce the Future is Female narrative.
Very soon MGTOW will have the same PR problem. And once the next Eliot Rodger or Alex Minasian incident occurs you’ll see these grifters scatter from MGTOW like roaches when the lights come on. When there are dead women on the sidewalk somewhere, and the MSM is using terms like ‘MGTOW’, ‘Incel’ and ‘radicalization’ that is when all the ‘tribes’ of the Manosphere will throw each other under the bus. That’s when you’ll know who was ‘playing MGTOW’ for likes.
One thing this re-debate of MGTOW has made me reconsider is whether men are adapting to the new realities of the sexual marketplace or just looking to make their necessities a virtue. At its simplest MGTOW is men refusing to make women the measure of their lives, and then molding their lives to their own plan. This pairs nicely with virtually every pet ideology and ‘positivity’ grift in the ‘sphere today. Even Tradcons will agree with MGTOW if it means “Be the best man you can be“. It agrees with Mental Point of Origin. It agrees with Roissy – “You shall make your mission, not your woman, your priority.” It agrees with “Women should only ever be a complement to a man’s life, never the focus of it.“
If that was all there was to MGTOW it would simply be Red Pill. What “MGTOW” life-coach grifters don’t realize is that MGOTW is a derivative of the Red Pill. I’ve always argued that once a guy becomes Red Pill aware he cannot help but live in some different fashion. Even the guys who go into complete denial can’t unsee the truths of intersexual dynamics. It’s what you actually do with that new awareness that sets apart Red Pill praxeology from MGTOW in practice. There’s more to MGTOW than just refusing to make women the measure of a man’s life – it’s also deciding what actually is deference to women. And that’s where it becomes highly subjective.
In my last post I outlined how women were upset there weren’t enough ‘eligible‘ men to marry in the current (westernized) sexual marketplace (SMP) today. Of course the two most common responses were either:
- Women are the victims of the SMP they created. Women’s solipsistic, socially enabled entitlements to an ‘economically attractive’ man (a man who exceeds her own productivity by 58%) only proves the point that women’s social media bloated egos have made them unrealistic tyrants. Now their beliefs and actions have come home to roost.
- This is proof-positive that MGTOW is working! Finally women are waking up to the realities of their beliefs and actions. If enough guys abandon the SMP altogether then women will be forced to come back to reality and choose men based on other criteria than ‘economic attractiveness’.
One point I struggled to make on last week’s show was that I wondered if MGTOW believed that, from an evolved perspective, men and women are better together than they are apart. Unfortunately, I didn’t have time to pursue that question in depth; do MGTOW largely believe that, if social circumstances were different, men and women evolved to be complements to the other and the best social outcome would be for the sexes to be together rather than segregated?
For the last 60 years feminism has effectively driven a wedge between men and women. The Gender War of today exists because of a systematic segregation between men and women (don’t @me with the cultural marxism/’evil juice’ shit for the moment). Honestly, I’m sick of reading about how negative it is to merely point out the realities of this ‘gender cold war’ by Success Porn grifters, but is not MGTOW an adaptation to this segregation? Is not MGTOW an exacerbation of this segregation. When I read mantras like ‘Dogs, Dudes and Dolls’ it sounds an awful lot like ‘Cats, Girlfriends and Vibrators’.
Is MGTOW an adaptation to the conditions in a sexual marketplace that was (and still is) contrived by feminism/gynocentrism?
The following quote is from a long time commenter and friend Deti. This was from a larger discussion that began here if you want to get some context. Sorry guys, I just don’t have the space to repost the whole thread, but I don’t want this to get lost. Hopefully, it will inspire further discussion in this post’s comments:
I read Novaseeker as saying in his comments on this post, that women have adapted within this particular milieu. In other words, women noted the changes and have adapted to them. It helps that the changes were geared to them and prepared with them in mind. But women have adapted, and men have not.
About 100 years ago, it was all geared toward men and the sexual and marriage marketplaces were prepared with men in mind. They were prepared to advantage men and disadvantage women. Women responded to and lived within that milieu in a number of ways.
Using soft power, manipulation, deceit, subterfuge, behind the scenes machinations. Most women were more or less OK with marrying an OK guy, having OK sex, and living an OK life.
Of course, sometimes women cheated on the downlow. Sometimes women cuckolded husbands. I mean real actual traditional definition of cuckolding, which is a married woman getting pregnant by an Alpha and passing the child(ren) off as the Beta Husband’s. There’s no way to know how often that happened, but it wasn’t really rare – Maybe anywhere from 5 to 20% of children then weren’t fathered by their bio-moms’ husbands. In rare cases, not marrying and becoming spinsters, living as bohemians or as “favorite cousins” or “favorite aunts” with male relatives, working as teachers or seamstresses or some other job, and being live in nanny/maid. In rare cases, divorcing and living off family money or a husband’s alimony money. Living as widows and not remarrying.
The point is that women learned how to adapt. There are a lot of reasons for that, but they did adapt.
The main responses men have used today to adapt to changing circumstances have been:
- Game/PUA/Seduction – Use the changes to men’s advantage and go for easy sex and the bachelor lifestyle.
- MRA – Fighting the changes to advocate for either equalizing the laws or rolling them back to a return to Marriage 1.0 and pre-sexual revolution status.
- MGTOW – Check out of the new system, refuse to support or participate in it, and eschew relationships with women to varying degrees.
About, oh, 20 years in, I think we can safely say that option 2) is dead in the water and has been for some time. About the only real reforms here are that divorce and family laws are slowly, very, very slowly, moving toward 50/50 residential custody and away from alimony (except in the case of longer term marriages with breadwinner spouse/dependent nonemployed wife). Unless you have been married more than 20 years and support a housewife, you probably will not be paying alimony except for temporarily. Thats about the entire sum and substance of how “equal” it’s going to get between men and women.
That leaves 1) Game; and (3) MGTOW.
It’s hard to tell what will come out of this. I think we can say:
• Marriage 1.0 is dead and we are never going back to it for at least 2 more generations. If you think you’re going to have a “traditional marriage” where you don’t have to do much to maintain it or you can let up on your attractiveness levels, think again. Because that is not going to happen. If you’re going to marry a woman, you need to improve your attractiveness, marry a woman who is not financially dependent on you, and cultivate your own life separate and apart from her. You need a contingency plan in the event the marriage goes south. And with all that, you need to consider whether you want to risk bringing kids into the mix. You absolutely need a prenuptial agreement, even if it gets judicially torn up or modified later.
The bottom line is, people are still marrying, it’s just that it’s all being pushed out later and later, and people are staying single longer and spending less time married. Many women are meeting the men they eventually marry in their early to mid 20s, and then marrying in their late 20s and early 30s. That’s a paradigm that’s increasing in frequency; this idea of long term dating and engagements lasting 2 to 5 years while both the man and woman establish their careers.
If you want long term relationships you should consider marriage alternatives like living together, or being exclusive while living apart. You absolutely must avoid at all costs these polyamory/polygyny situations, and open marriages. You absolutely must avoid women who want to continue AF’ing it even after they marry. That must be an absolute no go, not an option, ever.
• Men have to improve and increase their sexual attractiveness to create, maintain, and sustain relationships with women. You can’t let up here. That’s IF you want relationships with women.
• More and more men will go pure MGTOW and will severely minimize if not eliminate their relationships with women. For a growing number of men, this option is going to be the best one, because (a) they did the work and still couldn’t attract women; or (b) they don’t want to do the work and it’s easier to stay as is than to try.
For most men, avoiding women entirely, except for paying hookers, is a no go. The thirst is that strong. The male sex drive is that potent. Most men want to have some contact with women, even if it’s just random hookups now and again. And the only way to do that is to make yourself as sexually attractive as possible. That just is so. Women are the ones who pick sex partners, and they have no problem with sharing attractive men with other women. So if you want sex partners, you have to make yourself sexually attractive. And you have to know male and female sexual nature, so that you know what you’re getting into, you know what you’re seeing, you know what women are doing, and you know what women really mean when they talk.
For men, improving one’s own attractiveness increases one’s power in the market. It increases his ability to control some of the selection process. It gives him an abundance mentality. It gives him the power to walk away from situations that disadvantage him. It gives him the ability to tell women “no” and to reject women who cannot or will not give him what he wants and needs.
On the other hand, going your own way can also increase your power in the market. It maximizes your control over your own life. It sharply reduces your responsibilities to others, and increases your opportunities. It frees up your resources to expend the way you want. Sharp reductions in responsibility means a sharp reduction in the needed resources for day to day living, meaning you can work less and increase your leisure time.
I think that more and more men will go pure MGTOW, which is essentially “make the best of a tough situation, be single, and don’t have a family. At least that’s better than getting divorce raped and it’s less work than going to the gym, getting in shape, and eating clean. This way I can eat what I want and work 30 hours a week, and live by myself in my apartment”. It’s kind of similar to women 100 years ago, where the path of least resistance was for Bertha BigGirl, Martha Dumptruck, and Plain Jane to “find a decent, OK man to support me, and probably have at least 3 of his kids. At least it’s better than living with Mom until she dies, and then having to live with my brother and his wife, and taking care of their kids.” And similar to the spinster, the MGTOW will be low status, or at least perceived as low status. But for the spinster and the MGTOW, their lifestyles will be at least better than whatever else they could have gotten.
Guys, Nova is absolutely correct in that men by and large are not adapting.
I think that what’s going on is that many men are saying “want to stay the same, don’t want to do a lot of work, but I still want women to be attracted to me and to be able to date a lot and eventually get married and have a family like (a) mom and dad had when I was growing up; or (b) like I didn’t get to have growing up.” Well, you can’t have that, at least not without working for it. If you want something you’re going to have to work for it. If you want women and sex, you’re going to have to make yourself attractive to women. And the way you’re going to do that, the only way to do that, is to stand out. And the way you stand out is by improving every area of your life – your job, your body, your finances, your lifestyle, your hobbies, your social acumen, and everything else that involves you going through your life.
The funny thing is that when a man stops caring so much about it, forgets about women, and sets about improving his life, he starts attracting women.
That’s the current state of things, I think.
I don’t disagree that we’re presently at a turning point in intersexual relations. After the advent of unilaterally female controlled birth control and the Sexual Revolution that followed the upheaval in how men and women come together and relate was inevitable. Now that we’re 50 odd years past that point we’re figuring out how reproduction, love, marriage, and something as simple as boy-meets-girl is going to look for future generations. The internet and a social media acculturation on a global scale has seen to it that it will likely never look like it did under the old social contract. There’s a theory that post-agrarian societies experienced a similar shift in intersexual dynamics in our ancestral past. Socially enforced monogamy was the obvious intersexual shift.
Right now we’re seeing a similar shift in intersexual relations. Is it simply better for men and women to live segregated lives? I don’t believe so, but it seems like a larger cultural narrative believes it’s time for both men and women to go their own ways. Until one side concedes, fuck any notion of evolved complementarity is the narrative I guess.
I do disagree with Deti in that I think men are adapting. They always have. It’s that the adaptation is counter to what we might hope is the natural order between men and women.
“How much technological progress is lost due to genius men having zero chance to get laid and as such having zero motivation to perform in life?”
Ingenious to pack so much jello into a rhetorical question. Zero understanding of what motivates genius.
On a related note, after scrib’s genius discovery that women want to be fucked, if one applies genius level mathematics, logistics, and chaos theory, one can determine that a substantial set of men will be fucking. As an alternative you could notice families.
Just a tale from life: I’m 50, have had several long-term women, married, got a child – and eventually divorced when life with my entitled exwife got too terrible. She just was never happy. I’m fit and good looking, I have women ogling me daily, there is at least one pretty 33 year old that seems seriously interested (and I know at least 3 fat hags that would leave their man in a second if I would have them) – but I have lost all and any will to be with women again. Sure, sex is fun. But I have… Read more »
Things probably wont get worse, they’ll get better. Problem is the inertia from the initial stupidity.
Why shouldn’t millennials be angry at boomers when boomers let the government into the home?
The easily victimized were dragged into the bullshit, and once the boomers admit their mistakes, they’ll probably be dragged OUT of the bullshit.
@redlight Genius or not, the productivity loss is the same. Geniuses rely on an entire infrastructure of lesser intelligent men of varying degree in order to get their research done sufficiently to have a breakthrough. None of this is possible, however, with every man in a society scraping and clawing at one another for a bit of punanni. The reason male friendships are almost nonexistent is not due to fictitious “toxic masculinity” but because all men now must constantly compete and the undertone of hostility is ever present. You don’t see polygamous societies coming up with any new patents nor… Read more »
Blaximus Baptist preachers are just some guys Nope. They are Leaders by definition and because they say so. They are the leaders that a lot of young men grow up around. That makes them part of the problem…because “mah Authoriteh!” and stuff. So if a young man is told by his own parents, his cousins, his uncles, etc. that this pie-faced doofus who submits to his own wife is an example of He-Man Male Leadership, he’s gonna be one blue pilled dude who honestly believes that choreplay is the way to a woman’s wetness. Then he winds up as a… Read more »
I understand,but cannot relate to the ” do what you were taught ” thing, because I wasn’t taught these same things ( be kind and nice and whateverthefuck “.)
Been trying to tell you that for a while now. Different reference experiences + reinforcement = different outcome. This is why some men choke really hard on the Red Pill; it contradicts everything they were taught by everyone around them.
“It’s all well and good for men to improve, but where does it end? Hypergamy doesn’t care, remember? Only the biggest of the baddest alphas get to have their “pick,” “
not this…really, you’re quite pathetic with your defeatism and laziness
“Why shouldn’t millennials be angry at boomers when boomers let the government into the home?”
This is jejeune. There was a war of feminist boomers against conservative boomers and the conservatives lost.
“The reason male friendships are almost nonexistent is not due to fictitious “toxic masculinity” but because all men now must constantly compete and the undertone of hostility is ever present.”
Men have always had to “constantly compete”. Hostility is new. “Let’s you and him fight,” maybe? It used to be that men would help each other understand women. Doesn’t happen any more. Oh, wait, there’s Field Reports.
Boys age 20-25 are now orbiting women instead of making friends of other guys around masculine hobbies. Or they are playing videogames in their parents’ basement. Or both.
“There was a war of feminist boomers against conservative boomers and the conservatives lost.”
On August 18, 1920.
““Let’s you and him fight,” maybe?”
Divide and conquer. All heterosexual male friendships are shamed in one way or another. Each man must be under a female handler to be accepted as normal. No group of men may assemble without a female present to observe and interfere.
Holmes and Watson must be a gay couple.
On August 18, 1920.
Because 24 year old Harry Burn obeyed his momma and ignored common sense.
The blue pill is not new.
@TransRight One of the most productive periods for R/D was WW2, where men “must constantly compete and the undertone of hostility is ever present”. If you want to empty male competitiveness out of our lives, whether in business, sports, relationships, the military, then you are a slave to the FI. Men have agency, and as I and others have previously noted the key is to make low investment in women and high investment in self. Making high investment in self is certainly competitive, however you will find yourself able to establish male friendships with others who also do the same.… Read more »
Where’s Mersonia? He’ll be delighted to know Robin Hood is straight again.
.. working as teachers or seamstresses or some other job, and being live in nanny/maid.” Up until WW1, “seamstress” was the commonly understood euphemism for “working girl”. Self-employed. One who had at least her own private room, possibly in her parents’ house, and did not rely on a pimp or work the streets. And they were legion. There’s an ancient para-Conan-Doyle gothic novel “the Cruciform Mark” written by the medical student ancestor of a friend which, merely as background detail to the various crimes, describes the ubiquity of this arrangement. Well, in late 19th-century Edinburgh, at least. The lace curtains… Read more »
Tam ye Bam Up until WW1, “seamstress” was the commonly understood euphemism for “working girl”. Once upon a time I took a tour of the Seattle “underground”, the area under some streets. It’s an artifact of the way the town was constructed in the 19th century. There were a lot of girls that could be found in the underground tunnels back then, allegedly all involved in the garment trade because of all the sewing machines that were said to be down there. Squeaking day and night. All the guide could point to was a row of steel cots with springs.… Read more »
theasdgamer, l probably have hoodies older than you….if you want to waste time training women, go ahead. As for dating women under 40, done that as late as this spring, 32 with baby rabies.
Small observation of what thirst, lack of game and beta supplication are like. Occasionally on my Latin dance nights there are more guys than girls coming out. The result? Guys literally rushing to ask girls to dance, trying desperately to cockblock each other. For the girls, even the ones who can’t dance are in higher demand. In these situations even guys who can’t dance get girls just because they’re first and the girls either don’t feel they have a choice or the cockblocker doesn’t give them one. Then you get guys who just decide they’re going to sit it out… Read more »
“l probably have hoodies older than you….”
Crows can live almost as long as people, and if they’re no’ Scottish, they’re crrrrrrap!
“theasdgamer, l probably have hoodies older than you”
lol, I doubt it…kfg, maybe, but not you
“….if you want to waste time training women”
Yeah, lol…that Shakespeare was such a dumb ass…
“As for dating women under 40, done that as late as this spring, 32 with baby rabies.”
…well, at least she isn’t propagandized to hate having kids…put a bun in that oven…thumbs up!
“…kfg, maybe . . .”
No hoodies. They suck for situational awareness.
@walawala That in a nutshell is today’s Sexual Marketplace. There’s a book by Steve Moxon, showing that’s the Sexual Marketplace whenever the females of a species produce much less zygotes than the males. Nothing trumps biology — and the fact that today biology exercises its mastery from behind the scenes only further attests to its power. Then if you start using checks, and superimpose civilization-building and civilization-keeping rules on people, they’ll move some steps away from biology. Not otherwise. Unleashing female nature surely doesn’t compare with what unleashing male nature would mean in terms of a return to savagery; however,… Read more »
Iv’e notice in dancing that women are leading just as much as men when you go for the practice work before the Dance actually starts. least with west coast swing i haven’t been out to Latin dance in awhile but blues I’ve seen similar things come about with it.
Maybe we severely underestimate the effects of the technological changes we’re living through. The conditions created just by The Pill have never existed for our species, think about that seriously for a second.
One does wonder how future historians will look back on this time. Maybe we truly are at a serious inflection point in our species development, no longer really homo-sapien.
In the grand scheme of things, the current smp clusterf*ck might just be noise and nothing more. Or maybe it’s one of the ‘great filters’, guaranteed to exterminate any life that doesn’t find a way through.
@redlight That’s a false equivalency if I ever heard one, and it actually lends credence to my argument. The men and women working for our MIC during the Second World War were cooperating with one another, in competition with the Germans and Japanese. On a related note, and contrary to popular opinion, war is actually not very good for the economy at all. Also. Never once did I deny that intrasexual competition is intrinsic nor did I say that I wanted to eliminate it. So there you go with the straw man. Only when properly harnessed, in the context of… Read more »
@kfg ““There was a war of feminist boomers against conservative boomers and the conservatives lost.” On August 18, 1920.” Yeah, conservatives have been losing for a long time. Probably because conservatives always play defense. I’ve only seen three conservatives play offense–Reagan, Gingerich, and Trump. All three have been effective. Reagan talked the talk and walked the walk–as President. (He made a big mistake as governor signing No Fault Divorce.) Trump walks the walk even if his talk isn’t “refined” (cough “snooty” cough) enough for UMC repubs. Thanks for supporting my point that blaming Boomers is stupid–you clever Boomer, you. 🙂… Read more »
The strife within the manosphere is essentially intergenerational, and the majority of the old-timers will never admit to just how good they had it. The expectations now placed upon young men are so impossibly high as to be delusional, whilst women face zero pushback for any and all transgressions. This is not an impasse, this is an end.
How old are you??
“Thanks for supporting my point that blaming Boomers is stupid . . . ” If I’m going to blame Boomers for something it’s going to be for taking credit for things they didn’t do. The 60s ™ was about Greatest and Silents disaffected by being born into economic depression and world war. Boomers were just kids who thought it looked like a party and went along for the ride. The Beatles were “Boomer music” only because they listened to it. The people who made it were Silents. “Was this supposed to be a tease about me being spergy?” No. It… Read more »
“Transcendent Righteous Courage” There is something wrong here, Transcendent neither knows Righteousness nor does it require Courage. “The strife within the manosphere is essentially intergenerational,” The strife in the manosphere exists in the minds of “men” that are sitting on their asses doing nothing that requires the use of their senses or even most of their physical resources. Basically all in their heads. “and the majority of the old-timers will never admit to just how good they had it.” Well you got me there , I never had it easy and still don’t. I’ve learned everything the hard way and… Read more »
George Martin is my hero.
“George Martin was the Beatles”. — Ginger Baker R.I.P.
“The strife within the manosphere is essentially intergenerational, and the majority of the old-timers will never admit to just how good they had it.” Lessee…I had it so good…worked in a sewage treatment plant for minimum wage …worked loading hay bales on trucks in the hot summer sun without water or breaks …worked in a factory grinding fiberglass …worked building fences digging holes in hard clay in the hot summer sun …worked splitting rails in the winter in -10F weather “The expectations now placed upon young men are so impossibly high as to be delusional” …when you’re a Lilliputian, a… Read more »
Rollo, I have to ask. Is there any actual response to the changing sex culture you support? One time I recall you wrote that you don’t provide any answers or solutions, just facts, yet you don’t hesitate criticizing every idea someone might have. Marriage? Dead. MRA? Failure. PUA? Hopeless. MGTOW? Wrong. Aren’t you just selling an ultimate blackpill that nothing will ever work, no matter what we do? You once even wrote that the success of marriage of some doesn’t prove anything. I like to read you, but I am waiting for some constructive criticism of the man’s adaptations to… Read more »
The expectations on young men a century ago:
Unleashing female nature surely doesn’t compare with what unleashing male nature would mean in terms of a return to savagery;
Feel that FI pressing on you? Men civilize, women do not. “Unleashing male nature” is what created much of the world we currently live in, which is far above the “grass hut” level. Pasha Glubb had some ideas about this based on his reading of Middle Eastern sources – female “liberation” appears to be a result of a resource glut.
Moxon’s ideas have some issues. Especially in an era of sex-specific abortion.
Iv’e notice in dancing that women are leading just as much as men when you go for the practice work before the Dance actually starts. least with west coast swing
That is a fitness test, aka shit test. Don’t fall for it.
Dionysus The conditions created just by The Pill have never existed for our species, think about that seriously for a second. Nah. Lots of things can cause a miscarriage / abortion, in the 18th and 19th century there were herbal compositions that were used to “regulate menstrual cycle” which is just Plan B. In ancient Rome a plant-based compound supposedly was both contraceptive and would induce miscarriage / abortion. The plant grew along the Libyan coastline and was driven to extinction – if that actually existed. This was notable when Rome was the biggest dog on the scene, bigger than… Read more »
One likely candidate for ancient contraceptive / abortofacient:
@haael – “Marriage? Dead. MRA? Failure. PUA? Hopeless. MGTOW? Wrong. Aren’t you just selling an ultimate blackpill that nothing will ever work, no matter what we do? You once even wrote that the success of marriage of some doesn’t prove anything.” First and foremost “Game Saves Lives” What you are missing is to simply go RED PILL, stop with the external locus of control and focus on limiting lifestyle choices. For instance (from a high level without going in depth into details); • A focus on Marriage is moving your frame towards a woman’s frame, especially within the current social… Read more »
The worst part of the red pill is the realization that after improving oneself on all levels, the female equivilent is in very short supply. My gym is full of buff guys who seem to have it all covered, the women? For every stunner there’s 90 that should not be allowed in Lululemon’s. I’ve been a gym rat all of my life, one rarely saw this back in the 80’s when there seemed to an equal balance of fit men and women.
[…] Link mentioned on The Rational Male. […]
Evidently it depends heavily on where one lives.
Come to think of it, people in general are fatter now than in the past. Add to that the popularity of ” working out ” in corporation ” gyms ” like planet fitness and shit like that, I could see how these places are populated with larger than average chicks.
My recollection of the 80’s were that not many women went to gyms at all, but the ones that did go were serious. Now it’s a mindless exercise ( no pun ) to go ” workout “.
Don’t grunt or bang the weights though.
Add to that the popularity of ” working out ” in corporation ” gyms ” like planet fitness
Planet Fatness hands out free pizza one day a week…
The worst part of the red pill is the realization that after improving oneself on all levels, the female equivilent is in very short supply. My gym is full of buff guys who seem to have it all covered, the women?
Meh. Make approaches elsewhere. Use the gym for physical self improvement.
They don’t want a free pass at sex.
They want a clear path to high status so they can move to smugly telling everyone who asks how hard they worked licking boots and losing weight to get to where they are.
The sex would be a byproduct. They see the aggressive faces of their competition and aren’t used to nutting up and going the distance, so they don’t find out what monumental pussies other men can be.
Millennials at a Boomer wake:
Note that the Gelflings(GenX) are not present. They were evicted. lol.
Lots of talk here about “what do we do” and “what should we do” and “what do we do when women suck as bad as men do”. Answer: Whatever you want. Whatever you’re willing to do. Whatever you can do with what you’ve got. If you can get casual sex and you want to, go do that. If you want casual sex but can’t, then either (a) get better so you can get it; or (b) stay as you are and find another goal. If you don’t want casual but can get it, then don’t. Or do, when you feel… Read more »
Guys, I don’t know what else to tell you. If you can’t get Plan A, then fashion a Plan B that works for you and execute that. If Plan B starts failing, modify or scrap it and get a Plan C. Adapt. Improvise. Overcome. Yes, this might involve no marriage and no fatherhood. And for more of us, that is probably going to be the best option. Accept it. Make your peace with it. Move on with it, into a place where, if you’re not getting everything you want, you’re getting what you need and some of what you want.… Read more »
Planet Fatness hands out free pizza one day a week… At the one I go to they have a big jar of candy at the front desk… I skip that. Been going there for a couple of months now cause it’s dirt cheap and I was getting bored lifting in my basement. I’ll probably sell the powerrack and a bunch of weights soon. 95% of the people I see there are basically faking it. Taking 10 minute breaks fiddling on their phones between sets. Yesterday one idiot was on the leg-press ‘resting’ while I did 3 other machines. I don’t… Read more »
Rollo, why is it no longer available to look for particular member’s posts?
It used to be that when I click on name it would show history of his posting.
not working anymore. why?
Bears being repeated again that men are much less a monolith in this sense than women are.
Men in the bottom 80% suffer disproportionately (log scale) than those in the top 20% and even top 10 and 5%.
Red Pill and MGTOW are both reactionary Beta reform movements and their enemy is more technology than women/feminism per se.
I get the 80/20 thing, it’s just hard to wrap my head around irl because I see and know many men of all ages and backgrounds and economic status having sex and/or ” relationships ” in their own terms pretty much. 80% suffering is a gigantic percentage. I should see more evidence ( outside of the sphere ). I think the number is closer to 50/50 or so. I still see quite a few people getting married before age 30, I don’t see a majority of young women riding a cock carousel ( outside of clubs and bars. All women… Read more »
MGTOW is simply the evolution of the red pill mindset. As others have noted, age has a lot to do with it. I, and other older men (I’m 50), had plenty of success with women when we were younger. But we see the way society is changing and how rotten and entitled women have become, and choose not to play the game anymore.
If you don’t mind my asking, where abouts ( not precisely of course) do you live, and is it all women you observe?
“Don’t grunt or bang the weights though.”
I got stuck twice (two separarate days) in the past month with some douche that was grunting. And all I could think was the amount of weight he was lifting was very feminine. It drove me crazy. I wouldn’t have minded so much if he was lifting twice the weight.
“If you’ve done all you can to get better so you can get into the casual sex scene, but you can’t, then abandon an unattainable goal and set your sights on a goal you can attain. Leave it to the women to fuck Chads thinking one will eventually commit. Banging your head against a wall hoping to attain an unattainable goal is something women do. […] Yes, I know that sucks. Yes, I know that means no women for most of you. Yes, I know that means “no women” is probably the best answer for many of you. Yes, I… Read more »
Looks to me like women are winning the Shit test games.
Good stuff. I used to have plans A-D. I tried to be certain that I had what was necessary for my ” A” plan to succeed, and I never expected to succeed without effort. But a backup plan is necessary so that one isn’t caught flat footed when the original plan doesn’t work out.
Blaximus I get the 80/20 thing, it’s just hard to wrap my head around irl because I see and know many men of all ages and backgrounds and economic status having sex and/or ” relationships ” in their own terms pretty much. 80% suffering is a gigantic percentage. I should see more evidence ( outside of the sphere ). Perhaps you do not know what to look for; “grey men” are by definition not all that visible. Men generally do not talk about their pain, be it physical or emotional, so there is surely suffering that is not visible to… Read more »
No confirmation bias. Give me a little more credit than that. The confirmation bias is mostly here in the sphere, but that’s another story for another time. What I’m talking about is simple mathematics. If 80/20 is 100% correct all day every day, then if I know and interact with 25-30 men over years and years, I should see it in action. The graph is okay, but it’s not engraved in stone. It too can be used as a buffer. LOL, if I were to put up 5 graphs regarding ” global warming ” or something else unpopular, I’d bet… Read more »
Imo, it’s better to know 20 women ( that you aren’t trying to fuck ) and observe them over time than constantly relying on media to tell you what’s really going on in life.
Media is not your friend.
Blaximus Confirmation bias Everyone has it, and you’ve shown it in the past. IMO you’re showing it again. If 80/20 is 100% correct all day every day, then if I know and interact with 25-30 men over years and years, I should see it in action. What does that even mean? It isn’t the same thing as saying “If Newton’s laws of motion are correct all day every day”, because 80 / 20 attraction for women is situational as has been explained to you before. DId you forget? What’s that cross section of mankind that you interact with like? Any… Read more »
Media is not your friend.
For betas who are smart enough to find sites like this, the most useful thing to teach them is that beta game is replicable. Take for example the subject of Rollo’s Case Study #1 which he did yesterday on youtube. “Techlead” is a beta who worked 80 hours a week for Facebook (and before that google) before getting a “friendly visit from HR” after he posted his opinions about women in tech. Around the same time he was fired his wife took the kid and left the country. What we need to teach future “techleads” is that marriage (or even… Read more »
Democrat Ilhan Omar cited an “irretrievable breakdown” of her marriage … Omar’s filing comes more than a month after a Washington, D.C., woman in her own divorce filing accused Omar of having an affair with her husband.
Rollo might need to have a daily case study
“after improving oneself on all levels, the female equivilent is in very short supply.”
It has always been thus. I don’t think that you’ve ever read “The Taming of the Shrew”. Written five or so centuries ago. Petruchio was a top 1% man and he had to train Katie. And he did. And she became a 1% woman. Why the fuck do you think that Shakespeare wrote that play?
Haven’t you learned anything in your 64 years?
Offering a counterargument is manly and mature. Men tend to be logical and everyone benefits when an issue is discussed logically and rationally.
Girls downvote without offering a counterargument. Because feelz.
I don’t recall anyone mentioning this:
“Trump Administration Signals End To Campus Star Chambers”
For years, college campuses across the country have been conducting witch hunts to expel or punish men accused of sexual assault. Those may soon be coming to an end, thanks to the Trump administration.”
@J – haha. Brutal vid lol.
Send them this of a handsome guy showing how it’s done!
have men adapted to the new SMP? It’s a global marketplace now with internet connections and international dating sites. Guys in some chat groups I’m in travel overseas to meet women. Other stick to internet sites and meet that way. Try watching 90-day fiancé sometime to see this in action. The ones on the show maybe extreme examples, but it’s informative from a RP lens to see the transactional dynamics and the utter blue pill-ness of the guys on these shows.
“Send them this of a handsome guy showing how it’s done!”
she’s not hot and they both know it
if she was he would have kissed her at 1:05
she’s got crossed arms and backs off at 1:14
odds of shitty hook up are high
she is low hanging fruit
where are her hot friends?
what i learned:
only approach hotties
kiss a hottie in circumstances equal to this at 1:05 and i’m in for a great night lol
Rollo, The tech lead breakdown on his wife leaving him that you did was good work. You need to do more of this, instead of internet alphas beating their chests endlessly which your crew has been sliding towards, here you have a real life example and it’s brutal. There are a ton of these guys especially in the tech world which I am a part of. They think the high salaries are some sort of golden key, these guys often debase themselves in the corporate world also so it’s not just about women, these guys are getting very little respect… Read more »
@Centuries: I am redpilled and I know what to do. I am talking about Rollo’s habit of going “I don’t give any answers but everybody else is wrong”.
@Sentient I’d just like to see more of us going in eyes wide open. To what? Hypotheticals or real life? Real life. But of course looking out at the real life outcomes of others, we can learn and decide which hypothetical situations we wish to engage or avoid for ourselves and for others we care about. Getting arrested by campus police and charged with sexual assault after an FNL is also anything but bullshit anymore. Losing your job, your scholarship, your career and your personal reputation based on nothing but hearsay from emotionally compromised adults is not bullshit either. Has… Read more »
Fuck all that roaring and having a pride and killing food and being magnificently awesome enough to be called ” King of the Jungle ” ( I don’t even live in jungles btw….). Why do all of that? What’s the point? There’s no payoff. I just want to do what I want to do, which is take cat naps all day long .
Is this all there is? All of this soaring? What’s the payoff? Fuck it, where’s the airport
Some of you girls don’t understand how things work when you are masculine and have banged a girl. First, the girl will want more of you and your time and will fall in love with you. She will be afraid of losing you. So FRAs are out the window at this point. If you decide that you want to next this girl for some reason, you need to do a soft next. Don’t tell her that you are moving on. You just gradually pay less and less attention to her, while giving her comfort when you do pay attention to… Read more »
Jesus!!! I’ve wasted my life and squandered all of that prime couch time for nothing. I’m 49 years old and I don’t even own an Xbox FFS!!! I should just die already….but first I’m gonna bang those honeys waving at me on the beach.
I’m dead now
Shit. I should’ve never lost 92 pounds in 150 days. What was the point? Being healthy and keeping pace with muh kids? I am a failure. A jacked failure. This was an exercise in futility.
K. I’m done.
… one last one. Now I’m going to have a steak.
haeel @Centuries: I am redpilled and I know what to do. I am talking about Rollo’s habit of going “I don’t give any answers but everybody else is wrong”. Both statements are true. He won’t offer prescriptions because every situ is different. That’s what Field Reports often is used for. However, he’s right and all the traditional conservatives, all the feministas, all blue-pilled PUA’s are wrong. They are demonstrably wrong, as we have seen over time. PUA’s marrying and winding up betaized? Not a surprise. Traditional Conservatives getting blindsided with frivorce when the youngest child leaves home? Totally expected. Women… Read more »
As a man you must be comfortable with risk, the world has never been risk free for men. Yes marriage is a risk, it may or may not work for you, but you will never know until you try if marriage and kids is what you really want. I have realized I need to push everyday in all areas, catch and release for me on the women front because I am married. I just struck up a conversation with a younger woman sitting across from me here at Starbucks, my initial conversation opener was the fact she had number pad… Read more »
I didn’t really listen to Rollo’s TechLead breakdown. It got pedantic for me. I started it, but got bored. @Foxguy, I don’t know what you refer to as “internet alphas beating their chests endlessly”. Perhaps you can name names and critique those you think are in-authentic, or wrong in their content. Rollo’s fucking time stamps are shit. But I’m talking about your comment 7 hours or so earlier than this. What do you think about your tech friends? And their getting little respect? They get very little respect in their tribe because of their lack of tactical masculine virtues. In… Read more »
‘The thirst is that strong. The male sex drive is that potent.’ Summarises why I am here. 60 year old married guy that luvs women. It is part of my makeup that I will never apologise for. Give a smile, get one back. You bet I want her. She chooses based on your display. The crush is the most difficult thing to get through in my experience.
Though this was rather interesting?itok=ViRKOTN7
Meant this one https://www.nasa.gov/content/men-women-spaceflight-adaptation
men and women and what we prioritize.
Apologies if this is a repeat post gentlemen but I think my last post may have got filtered. Going off topic I would just like to recommend a book I am currently reading. If you like Evolutionary Biology/Neurology associated to human behaviour it will be of interest to you. It is an 800 page study and it is a very interesting and compelling read. I have spent some time googling some of the scientific terminology but the author also has great humour. Of particular interest are the sections on Sexual Identity (It is not a social construct, that is dogma.… Read more »
Enjoyed this, but would like to push back a little for the sake of discussion.. Men and women certainly evolved together, but to suggest that we are better together (in light of our recent relationship paradigm), might be a stretch. No doubt women of the past and present benefit tangibly from any arrangement, but what about men? Our biologic imperative is to resist commitment to one woman in our own interest. As cultural/religious forces have tempered this imperative, our sense of ‘together’ has changed for the betterment of society (IMO). Is it possible that men choosing a life of no… Read more »
Farva But, it’s the ” facts ” that can be points of contention. I agree that men have the right and obligation to live life as they see fit for whatever reasons they like, but that choice doesn’t necessarily mean it’s fact based. I happen to believe men and women are better together than apart, but I recognize that’s based on my experience and understanding. The biological imperative is reproduction. One can opt out of this but it doesn’t change the ” facts “, nor does it diminish it. Reproduction and pair bonding is not a phenomenon solely linked to… Read more »
Keith, you are missing one important fact about women. Men have a constant sex drive, not a compelling sex drive. Women, by contrast, have a variable sex drive and, potentially, a compelling sex drive. When women’s emotions spike, their sex drive becomes compelling. This is why women must be corralled if they are to stay exclusive. A man who can spike women’s emotions gets his choice of women. An example is a concert by a top band. The band plays and women’s emotions spike and girls go looking for the band members. The band members get their choice of women.… Read more »
Related to Wildside’s book recommendation:
@KFG. Thanks for the link, man. Very interesting. So, the author pretty much points out that neuro science has become gender biased and feminised. There also seems to be a lot of ‘bullying’ and man shaming going on in that field of research. I cited a book called The Female Brain a while back. It was wrote by a female Dr of Clinical Psychiatry who did 20 years of research into the subject. It details female behaviour from birth to menopause including women’s hypergamous sexual strategy and how the brain affects that behaviour. What’s interesting is that she explicitly states,… Read more »
Are men adopting to the new sexual marketplace? Did they adapt when they conquered new lands through the world during the period of exploration (i. e. go ‘native’) or did they make it there own?? No, men should not adapt, we should be leading, building, and creating. However, being that men are not allowed to be men anymore without the express written consent of the hivemind that runs every bad useless “..ism” that exists in the West (see communism, socialism, feminism, etc..) the answer is no….not if they are real men and can’t change the current situation, then MGTOW is… Read more »
“Did they adapt when they conquered new lands through the world during the period of exploration . . .”
Pith helmets are from South East Asia and kefiya from the Middle East. Khaki is the color of soil in the Punjab.