The Reconstruction IV

head_hitting

The Red Pill shows you the dark side of women. Not so that you will hate them but so you appreciate them for what they are, not what they’re not.

I think one of the harder aspects of the Red Pill for men who get awakened-while-married (or while monogamous) to accept is the disillusionment of their Blue Pill idealism about women confirmed for them in the behavior and mindsets of their wives. Breaking the Blue Pill ego-investments of single men who unplug is a difficult task, but their investment risk in women (real or imagined) they believe might make acceptable long-term mates is far less than a man who’s been married for more than 4 or 5 years.

For the single Red Pill guy with the option to simply walk away from a less than optimal situation, his conflict becomes one of potentials and weighing them against his Blue Pill ideals – ideals his unplugging should rid him of. His struggles is one about the “what ifs” and disabusing himself of the scarcity mentality that the Blue Pill has conditioned him for. While Hypergamy inherently instills in women a persistent doubt about a man’s quality, the Blue Pill instills in men a doubt about “quality” women’s scarcity and his capacity to find and maintain a ‘soul mate‘.

However for married men, with a considerable amount of emotional, social, financial and familial investment at stake in his marriage, there’s a natural resistance that comes in the form of denial. What’s tough is that, within this initial state of denial, a husband accepts the Red Pill truths about women and then has those truths confirmed for him by the woman he’s been sleeping next to for a number of years. All of the awareness about men and women’s differing concepts of love, the truth of women’s Hypergamously motivated opportunism, her confirming her open Hypergamy, all of the events that led up to his committing himself in marriage to her while he was still effectively Blue Pill – all of that gets confirmed for him when he puts into practice the concepts he learns from the Red Pill.

For all of the ‘anger’ that profiteering critics would like to wipe off on Red Pill thought, that anger finds its base in men’s confirming their own role in what was (or would’ve been) a life-long strategy for him to fulfill the dictates of women’s Hypergamy as well as the larger scope of the Feminine Imperative. When we put this into the perspective of a married man who unplugs, you can see why this is such a threat to the imperative. That man must reassess his life from the position of his being an unwitting participant in his Blue Pill conditioning, but furthermore, he becomes a constant caution, a warning, for men who have yet to make the same uneducated decisions he has.

There is nothing more depressing to me than to listen to a married man parrot back all of the tropes the Feminine Imperative has taught him to repeat about why he’s in the subservient role in his marriage. These are the guys who’ll laughingly tell single men how they must “clear everything with the Boss” before they are allowed (or will allow themselves) to participate in anything remotely masculine or self-entertaining. These are the men who prattle about their ‘honey-do’ lists, the men who count themselves fortunate to have such a ‘great wife’ who’ll allow him to watch hockey or football on a weekend. I wrote a more detailed post about these men in The Abdication Imperative.

These husbands are depressing to me because, in their Blue Pill ignorance, they represent the summation of their roles according to the strategies of the Feminine Imperative. They’ll gladly White Knight for their wives’ right to the Frame of their marriage (under the pretense of equalism). They’ll laugh and commiserate with other husbands sharing their position of powerlessness-but-with-all-accountability. They’ll chirp with funny little Facebook memes that share their ridiculous, married state, but for all of that acquiescing to their ‘fates’ what they really represent is the goal-state of men in the Feminine Imperative’s plan for their lives.

Men generally come to the realization of their appointed role at some point in their lives. Whether it’s Red Pill awareness or coming to a mid life crisis epiphany, men get ‘woke’ in some respect. The few who don’t are men whose existence literally depends on their not coming to terms with how the Blue Pill has made them what/who they are. The most common way for men to come into this awareness has been that mid-life epiphany, but in order for men to reconcile that awareness with maintaining a comfortable sense of self they become the men I describe in The Abdication Imperative. They really don’t know anything else but what the Blue Pill has created them to be, so they go into denial and add some self-deprecating humor to it to cope with the dissonance of knowing they’ve been played by the Feminine Imperative for the better part of their lives. So you get the ‘Yes Dear’ husbands; the men who realize the truth too late, but that same scarcity mentality forces them to go along to get along.

The rise of Red Pill awareness of intersexual dynamics on the internet has made for a community of men who find this denial distasteful. Rather than abdicate to the imperative and their wife’s Frame they look to the Red Pill and Game for a remedy to that state. Sometimes that’s getting their wives to have sex with them more frequently or they’re looking to better themselves in a Red Pill context to gain women’s (their wives’) respect. As I’ve mentioned many times before, the Red Pill represents a threat to the Feminine Imperative keeping men ignorant of their roles in women’s Hypergamous plans. Now that threat comes to fruition in the context of men’s marriages.

One way or another, men will become aware of their role, how that man goes about dealing with it is another story. Most (being Blue Pill) abdicate and accept their powerlessness in their relationships. It’s the other men who choose not to just cope, but to reconstruct themselves that the Red Pill will have answers for.

Break Up with Your Wife

Not too long ago in various comment threads on this blog readers had a discussion about how any marriage (at least in the contemporary sense) is always founded on a Beta status for the husband. I don’t entirely agree with that assessment, but considering how the large majority of marriages are the culmination of Blue Pill conditioned men fulfilling their role as cuckolded provider for women cashing out of the sexual marketplace it’s certainly an understandable presumption. I won’t elaborate too much on the particulars, but the very act of committing to a woman monogamously implies a man (even one with an Alpha persona) is leaning towards a Beta perception. Alpha’s don’t commit to anyone but themselves, Betas are eager to commit from necessity and scarcity. The act becomes the confirmation.

If we follow this binary logic, the only solution to a man’s condition within his marriage – the only way to institute a real change – is to reject and break that commitment. Personally, I have lived out what most men would envy in my marriage for over 20 years now, so the idea of leaving Mrs. Tomassi would only seem like a good idea if I weren’t satisfied sexually, psychologically and life-wise with her. But, as I always repeat, don’t use my marriage as a benchmark. There was a point where I needed to break up with her, if only by adopting my own mental point of origin above that of hers or women in general as my own Blue Pill conditioning would expect of me.

I mentioned in the beginning of this series that married (committed) men seeking to reconstruct themselves within that context ought to read the post for the Iron Rule of Tomassi #7:

Iron Rule of Tomassi #7
It is always time and effort better spent developing new, fresh, prospective women than it will ever be in attempting to reconstruct a failed relationship. Never root through the trash once the garbage has been dragged to the curb. You get messy, your neighbors see you do it, and what you thought was worth digging for is never as valuable as you thought it was.

I mention this as a starting point because when you’re making the decision to reconstruct yourself you must ‘do it for you’. Once again, any real change always beggars the question about who you’re really changing for. Nothing is an act of unguided, unbiased, self-initiated change – there is always some ancillary influences as well as consequences. This is the crisis of motive.

However, if you find yourself awakened-while-married and you want to remake yourself, know that this change must be for yourself and not for your wife. This decision to reconstruct your life, your persona, your belief set, etc., and reject what the Blue Pill has made of you must come as a result of making yourself your mental point of origin. This ‘new you’ precludes any consideration of your wife’s interests. It must be in order for your transformation to be genuine to both yourself and those who know the ‘old’ you. As I mentioned in the last installment, the likelihood of your wife accepting your new persona is dependent on what Frame you entered that relationship with as well as what you’ve surrendered of your self-respect to her.

This is the most difficult part for Blue Pill men wanting to reconstruct themselves. Their mental point of origin doesn’t change, they want to change because they want to be “more Alpha” for their wives, not themselves. The idea is to adopt just enough Alpha that their wives turn the sex spigot back on for them, but never really internalize the Red Pill to the point that is fundamentally changes who they are. Thus, it becomes an act not unlike newbie PUAs aping the behaviors of their mentors, but never internalizing the deeper meanings of why they work or making them part of ‘who’ they are as a person.

This is what kills a man’s reconstruction before it ever starts. That change must be a self-first proposition. Your Red Pill self-work must be intrinsically rewarding because there is absolutely no guarantee that a man’s wife / girlfriend will ever reimagine him from a different perspective. Particularly if that woman entered into that marriage/LTR because she’d hoped to maintain Frame indefinitely due to him abdicating to it.

You must become Red Pill aware for the sake of knowing the larger truth, internalize it and then apply it without the pretense of believing it can be used to achieve Blue Pill ideals.

With this in mind, you must presume that you are breaking up with your wife / girlfriend. It is far better to approach your reconstruction from the idea that the Red Pill you would likely have nothing to do with a woman like your wife. If you were single man, Red Pill aware and Game savvy, would you even approach your wife knowing what you do now about her personally as well as what you know about the Feminine Imperative and how it influences her?

Your reconstruction requires a radical shift that is only possible for you by breaking up with your LTR, at least in a subconscious respect. It is important to assess what, if anything, is worth rooting through garbage for. If you approach your reconstruction by first making yourself your mental point of origin, the next step is to assume you will be breaking up with your wife. It may never come to that, but this is the gravity with which a man must come to his reconstruction. The same reasoning I mention in Rooting through Garbage applies to your reconstruction:

Even if you could go back to where you were, any relationship you might have with an ex will be colored by all of the issues that led up to the breakup. In other words, you know what the end result of those issues has been. It will always be the 800 pound. gorilla in the room in any future relationship. As I elaborated in the Desire Dynamic, healthy relationships are founded on genuine mutual desire, not a list of negotiated terms and obligations, and this is, by definition, exactly what any post-breakup relationship necessitates. You or she may promise to never do something again, you may promise to “rebuild the trust”, you may promise to be someone else, but you cannot promise to accept that the issues leading up to the breakup don’t have the potential to dissolve it again. The doubt is there. You may be married for 30 years, but there will always be that one time when you two broke up, or she fucked that other guy, and everything you think you’ve built with her over the years will always be compromised by that doubt of her desire.

You will never escape her impression that you were so optionless you had to beg her to rekindle her intimacy with you.

It is always time and effort better spent developing new, fresh, prospective women than it will ever be in attempting to reconstruct a failed relationship. This is the same rationale you will need to adopt when you transition into a new Red Pill aware persona. This is necessary because once you’ve become aware there is no going back to that previous state of ignorance. You will know what can be possible with or without your wife/LTR.

Thus, it is important to zero everything out and treat your old wife as a new prospective woman. This perspective may mean she becomes someone not worth your effort, but it might also mean she likes the prospect of a new husband. This may mean she too will have to undertake some kind of transformation in relating to a Red Pill aware husband, or it might be that this is something she never foresaw. Dread works best when a man understands the Cardinal Rule of Relationships: In any relationship, the person with the most power is the one who needs the other the least.

By adopting the mindset that you are breaking up with her you reclaim this power – you have nothing to lose and have no way of going back to unknowing the Red Pill awareness you have now. For single men I often point out that breaking up with a girl is one of the best ways to demonstrate higher value (DHV). The downside to that is that by the time you get to the point of leaving DHV isn’t what you really care about. For the reconstructing man, adopting the position that you are breaking up (or have broken up) harnesses some of this DHV.

Most women (wives) will interpret your new self-importance as some kind of phase or your reclaiming your independence (rather than her co-dependence) as some childish sulking behavior. Anticipate this. She will presume you’re ‘going your own way’ within the marriage to force her to fuck you more or to get her to comply with your Frame. This is to be expected, but watch what her initial reactions to your takeaway are. This will give you an insight into how she perceives you. If you’re predominantly Beta her response will be that you’re pouting or sulking by removing your attention. If she sees you as Alpha her response will be much more serious and you’ll get the “what’s wrong baby?” reaction. This is a good starting point in determining her genuine perception of you.

You will effectively be NEXTing your wife so be prepared for her post-NEXTing behavior-set (extinction burst behavior) in the same way you would if you dropped a plate. This will be a tough transition for men who have invested themselves emotionally in their wives. You’ll want to come back to that place of comfort, but always remember that place is one of disrespect and sexlessness.

Most men will go half-way in their reconstruction and this is usually the result of having played a game of relationship ‘chicken’. They have their bluff called because it was always a bluff to them – they never made themselves their mental point of origin so they go back to the safety of their Blue Pill disrespect. Their wives respond to the takeaway of their attention, but never really connect with being attracted to his new self-respect and self-importance. Once that woman even marginally steps up her sexual frequency – motivated by her wanting him to return to her Frame – the guy gets comfortable and wants to go back to his comfy wife while feeling validated by thinking he made a genuine change that she responded to.

You must go all the way. If you don’t, the next time you attempt to exercise your Red Pill awareness in the hope that she’ll accept the new you, you’ll be that much more laughable to her. In fact, you’ll only further cement her perception of your whiny Beta status. The first time it’s Dread, the second time it’s you being pissy.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

boxcar @Insanity has a good response to Marko here. LOL, no, not really. Marco’s an aging blue-pilled man who stinks of TradCon and Bites is an aging, misandric, 2nd stage feminist. Bites has been a fountain of hate for men for years, Marco looks like someone who has been here before under a different name…or two…but neither one of them has men’s interests at heart. Marco’s clearly all about appeasing women, and Bites just wants to chivvy male slaves back onto the plantation, as all feminists and most women tend to do. Frankly not sure what your point is, aside… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@Anonymous Reader

Hear, hear.

They are engaged fully in mental masturbation (Engaging in attempted intellectually stimulating conversation with little or no practical purpose.)

Superfluous ideas to the flow at hand.

insanitybytes22
5 years ago

“….Bites is an aging, misandric, 2nd stage feminist. Bites has been a fountain of hate for men for years…” Sigh. Where’s your cool indifference, your amused mastery, your complete lack of concern about what Mrs Bytes says? I seem to be living rent free in your head, something that’s rather amusing, but it tends to just project fear and insecurity on your part. Also, jealousy. I keep asking if you’re a broken and wounded female, because you come across exactly like one. IB has never been a 2nd stage feminist, you’re thinking of my mother. Wrong generation. Nor have I… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
5 years ago

“Breaking the Blue Pill ego-investments of single men who unplug is a difficult task, but their investment risk in women (real or imagined) they believe might make acceptable long-term mates is far less than a man who’s been married for more than 4 or 5 years.” I get what you mean if it is because some men who are married for a few years have a harder time accepting reality and letting go of their mental investment, however delusional it may be. However, for most men today, I believe it is a bit different. Most are faced with a choice… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

Back to the OP Once that woman even marginally steps up her sexual frequency – motivated by her wanting him to return to her Frame – the guy gets comfortable and wants to go back to his comfy wife while feeling validated by thinking he made a genuine change that she responded to. This is a key insight, it’s a restating of what Rollo and others have said over and over again, so naturally I’ll restate it a little bit different way. Here is the question each man must ask himself regarding what he’s doing: Why am I doing this?… Read more »

rugby11
rugby11
5 years ago

Masculine
http://wp.me/p415yU-2RY

Mongrel
Mongrel
5 years ago

A BP man has a midlife crisis. A RP man has a midlife epiphany.

I did a bunch of the MMSL MAP stuff but two of the most effective things that helped me after nearly 25 years of marriage were 1) not being afraid of making my wife mad and 2) mentally getting to an acceptance that I could happily live without her. The latter is a huge deal for men who believe in the Disney commitment but once you get there it is truly freeing.

Boxcar
Boxcar
5 years ago

@Anon
Lol, I have disagreed with IB in almost every interaction with her.

Vektor
Vektor
5 years ago

If you are married, frame is all you have. Frame is not enough IMO. Maybe for some…Rollo, Dalrock, etc., but for many….maybe even most, frame is not enough. Frame is not real power. It is persuasion…..persuading some else to let you keep your own money and your own children. It is not power. Marriage is a contract, not a lifelong, one-sided courtship. For men, modern marriage is a bad deal…by design. Protect your rights, protect your freedom, protect your power. Nobody else will.

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
5 years ago

“The Red Pill shows you the dark side of women. Not so that you will hate them but so you appreciate them for what they are, not what they’re not.” Perhaps “shows you women qua women” is truer. She ain’t dark when she willingly follows you into light too, you see? It was always me, not her. “…a husband accepts the Red Pill truths about women and then has those truths confirmed for him by the woman he’s been sleeping next to for a number of years.” The truth is I dropped the ball…and she’d been waiting for me to… Read more »

Höllenhund
5 years ago

An off-topic question to Novaseeker: are you commenting under the name ‘Brendan’ on The American Conservative’s website, by any chance?

pinelero
pinelero
5 years ago

“This will give you an insight into how she perceives you. If you’re predominantly Beta her response will be that you’re pouting or sulking by removing your attention. If she sees you as Alpha her response will be much more serious and you’ll get the “what’s wrong baby?” reaction. This is a good starting point in determining her genuine perception of you.” I was going to ask a question about this as my woman’s response was to my manifesting my fully conscious RP awareness was along the lines of “…are you happy?”. But then a second later I also realized… Read more »

rugby11
rugby11
5 years ago

Life
http://wp.me/p6SXrP-jn3

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

EhIntellect: “As SJF often says, wives will appreciate the reconstruction too. Well, hell. So it is!” Rollo in OP: Most women (wives) will interpret your new self-importance as some kind of phase or your reclaiming your independence (rather than her co-dependence) as some childish sulking behavior. Anticipate this. She will presume you’re ‘going your own way’ within the marriage to force her to fuck you more or to get her to comply with your Frame. This is to be expected, but watch what her initial reactions to your takeaway are. This will give you an insight into how she perceives… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

I’m laughing so hard I can barely control myself. Ya gotta watch this video from Roosh. First, check out the beard, is he a Taliban now? He sure sounds like one. Second, look at his dead eyes. The look of a man who knows he’s run out his string. Third, look what he says in the last bit “I know I’m a nice guy” or some shit. How being a PUA was a reaction to a world gone amok. He’s also so angry, he really does sound like some Muslim nutbag, just not railing about Allah. I think most here… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

“Second, look at his dead eyes. The look of a man who knows he’s run out his string. Third, look what he says in the last bit “I know I’m a nice guy” or some shit. How being a PUA was a reaction to a world gone amok. He’s also so angry, he really does sound like some Muslim nutbag, just not railing about Allah.” The world is out to get him. You can see it in his Sanpaku eyes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanpaku “Paranoid? Probably. But just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean there isn’t an invisible demon about to eat your face.”… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

– He invited the world to come get him.

Marko
5 years ago

. Do you have any clear update on how Deida is doing now? The last book I read of his,
The Way of the Superior Man (1997), his process was leading him to venture into open marriage.
How is his Long Game going? We can learn from other’s experiences.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

I have no idea. Nor do I really care. My journey is self focused. And I can discriminate and interpret the message for that journey. He was being descriptive about the true natures of men and woman including their desires that they act out on inter-sexual relationships. Authors can write great stuff, and yet follow weird outcomes in their life. Roosh’s Bang was great, Athol Kays books were a unique and good distillation of married manosphere topics, Neil Strauss was a great writer, Tucker Max was entertaining (no, wait, his book was shitty, self aggrandizing and wildly unbelievable….). I can’t… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

” . . . check out the beard, is he a Taliban now?”

No, just Eastern, where the religious culture is much older than Christianity and not so influenced by European culture which had non-native Christianity laid on top of it without the root culture as background.

Thou shalt not trim the corners of your beard. Abrahamic, but it goes back much farther than that even:

comment image

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“Roosh has already stated he’s given up on Christianity . . . ”

Has he? I haven’t even tried to keep up, because I knew it was pointless the way he was blowing in the wind.

That’s going to cause him some problems with the only strong, outside support he has left.

rugby11
rugby11
5 years ago

kfg

Joe K
Joe K
5 years ago

I will never understand how ‘red pill’ men find it some sort of accomplishment when they are able to hit the right buttons to trigger ‘good’ responses from amoral hypergamous robots (their wives) when y’all know damn well that your wives would NEVER consistently act upon actual values like honor, loyalty, keeping your word…and as much as you guys hate what I’m saying – I know that most of you would act on those values. Why you’d give a flying fuck about the predictable, pull-the-string response of a creature whose only value is building herself up (at your expense, usually)… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

@Joe K:

It’s babies, all the way down. The only way up is – more babies.

Ajax Parallax
Ajax Parallax
5 years ago

@Joe K

It’s deeper than that. He’s teaching his son to have his own MPO during his formative years so that his son might one day avoid finding himself sitting on the edge of a bed in an Extended Stay Homewood Suites with a loaded .45 in his mouth after an I-never-saw-it-coming *blindsiding* by hypergamy.

A blindsiding massively fueled by his paternal lineage’s old set of books, his lifelong belief in the soulmate myth, his baked-in blue pill Disneyesque idealism and his oneitis scarcity mentality.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

Thanks for your concern (trolling) of the Apollo Archetype with your Cassandra Metaphor (Curse). I don’t hate what you are saying, the feeling in my bones is more indifference.
And Happy Super Bowl Sunday.

theasdgamer
5 years ago

@Vektor

If you are married, frame is all you have. Frame is not enough IMO.

Frame is not enough–I agree; that’s why married men have to practice Game…it has always been thus, tho men’s status has declined since the 1950s.

theasdgamer
5 years ago

@Joe K

I will never understand how ‘red pill’ men find it some sort of accomplishment when they are able to hit the right buttons to trigger ‘good’ responses from amoral hypergamous robots (their wives)

So, you’re among the Blue Pill men who expect women to act like men…do you expect women to have a penis, too? Sounds gay.

Blaximus
5 years ago

” I will never understand how ‘red pill’ men find it some sort of accomplishment when they are able to hit the right buttons to trigger ‘good’ responses from amoral hypergamous robots (their wives) when y’all know damn well that your wives would NEVER consistently act upon actual values like honor, loyalty, keeping your word…and as much as you guys hate what I’m saying – I know that most of you would act on those values. Why you’d give a flying fuck about the predictable, pull-the-string response of a creature whose only value is building herself up (at your expense,… Read more »

T-Prop
T-Prop
5 years ago

“. . . one of the harder aspects of the Red Pill . . . (is) to accept is the disillusionment . . .”

Bingo.

theasdgamer
5 years ago

@Joe K Even sadder is witnessing the older guys here with teenage sons who get all giddy when said teenage sons ‘get the girl’ or ‘get the attention of the popular kids’ et al….seriously, you are like the male equivalent of Dallas-area soccer moms with plastic surgery up-the-wazoo whose chief source of pride in life is in having their daughters appear like the hottest piece of ass on the block, and perhaps moving incrementally closer towards a tryout for the Cowboys’ cheerleader squad ‘someday’. Most fucking pathetic thing ever. Nah…much MORE pathetic is men pretending that half of the human… Read more »

anon
anon
5 years ago

“The only way up is – more babies.”

Not for Joe K.
Who is wise to all that and knows children are nothing but small organic robots one needs to push all the right buttons on to get a “good response”.
Which means they are a waste of time.
Of course, by that measure everyone is a waste of time.
Joe included.

Ronin
Ronin
5 years ago

Great comments all round, as a former OMG now five years + out of a 24 year marriage I found going “Warrior Monk” benefiting me tremendously. I realize now that all relationships are temporary, just enjoy the best bits and move on. I found one really needs a daily mantra to maintain their frame to counter what their main issues are or backsliding is inevitable .

Novaseeker
Novaseeker
5 years ago

An off-topic question to Novaseeker: are you commenting under the name ‘Brendan’ on The American Conservative’s website, by any chance?

Nah, I don’t read that place. I’ve been there a few times and it just seemed like more rehashed mainstream conservatives who didn’t like Bush or something. But, no, I don’t read there and I don’t comment there.

Novaseeker
Novaseeker
5 years ago

Even sadder is witnessing the older guys here with teenage sons who get all giddy when said teenage sons ‘get the girl’ or ‘get the attention of the popular kids’ et al….seriously, you are like the male equivalent of Dallas-area soccer moms with plastic surgery up-the-wazoo whose chief source of pride in life is in having their daughters appear like the hottest piece of ass on the block, and perhaps moving incrementally closer towards a tryout for the Cowboys’ cheerleader squad ‘someday’. Most fucking pathetic thing ever. Hmm. More like “I can’t even get laid by these desperate DTF hot… Read more »

Novaseeker
Novaseeker
5 years ago

People are more attractive to us when they are in demand, aren’t they? For women, without question. For men, not at all. That is, a beautiful woman becomes no more beautiful or attractive to us if she is desired by all other men, or by no men — that is, it isn’t a factor in our mind, in our attraction at all. In part this is because all beautiful women are desired by all men, so it would be pointless to take “being in demand” into consideration — any woman you are attracted to, unless you’re really odd and exotic… Read more »

Marko
5 years ago

@SJF Thanks for your reply re Deida. I do think, however, that seeing how in the long run a person’s ideas and beliefs work out in their personal life is important to understanding the utility and depth of implication of those ideas. Logically, the person and the ideas are separate, but as a practical matter the relationship is often profound. Re IM: In the post you cite, he states the case clearly: “It is man’s responsibility to lead, and woman’s to follow, for man is drawn to feminine submission in much the way woman is drawn to masculine dominance. This… Read more »

whywasiblue
whywasiblue
5 years ago
Reply to  Marko

@Marko: “With today’s economy and individualism Male and Female, I think it’s very hard to pull off. But if you can do it, excellent! …” To me what the RP implies is that the more natural, healthy, satisfying state of male-female relationships is when more traditional masculine/feminine roles are adopted by both parties. Society tells us that it shouldn’t be that way, but we all know what a sack of lies that is. What you are implying here is that the woman has to be party to the RP man’s actions to “pull it off”, either consciously or subconsciously relishing… Read more »

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
5 years ago

@ Joe My boy has spent just under a year dealing with his insecurities and did a fine job realizing true change. GFY. I’ve just been along for the ride. He’s better off and those around him are better for it too. I don’t know your motivations, why you hate on the next generation or parents looking to avoid betatizing in an FI world. Of note, kids always get the last laugh. Enjoy lying in your geriatric Olympic size pool of urine and stool as my kids ignore your call bell. Dildo. Speaking of betatizing parents, a popular FI parenting… Read more »

theasdgamer
5 years ago

@Marko

Re Dancing. Since the early 1960s, with the advent of the Twist, the Monkey, the Watusi, and then zillion others, popular dancing has been individualistic, with no clear leader, and the couples interacting off each others’ moves. Interesting how that mirrored and prefigured our highly individualistic culture!

Ballroom dancing, swing, salsa, and country are still very much alive and they all are lead-follow dances.

Novaseeker
Novaseeker
5 years ago

Ballroom dancing, swing, salsa, and country are still very much alive and they all are lead-follow dances.

Yep, and honestly, they’re the only dancing any self-respecting man should be doing. And if he doesn’t know how, he should learn. It’s a critical skill, precisely because it physically reinforces the relationship dynamic.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@Marko “With today’s economy and individualism Male and Female, I think it’s very hard to pull off. But if you can do it, excellent! I can imagine (had not had that dynamic, except only partly) it would supercharge the sexual charge.” Yes. That’s is the point. Imagine if no one gave you a choice or alternative other than follow the crowd off a cliff. I’m working from a different set of premises. It’s worked well for me, and many folks in my generation, and for my kids. Also true. And more safe. It’s not a requirement to be more perfect.… Read more »

theasdgamer
5 years ago

@Marko “It is man’s responsibility to lead, and woman’s to follow, for man is drawn to feminine submission in much the way woman is drawn to masculine dominance. This basic premise is itself the very basic building block on which attraction is formed, and whether knowingly or unknowingly to those involved, all healthy, happy relationships operate upon this very foundation.” I disagree with IM’s “all” assertion. In ALL business partnerships, which are a kind of social, financial, and legal relationship, one partner is dominant and the rest submissive…through ALL of history. In socio-sexual relationships, responsibility may be sorted out by… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago
theasdgamer
5 years ago

The Falcons would have done well to remember the Brady Rule of Game:

1. Be yourself.

2. Be attractive.

3. Be Tom Brady.

rugby11
rugby11
5 years ago

Rollo
http://wp.me/p6SXrP-jnh

walawala
walawala
5 years ago

Anyone watching Quarry the Cinemax show? Great to watch for the various pieces of Red Pill advice the main character gets and ignores. Mack the main character is a returning Vietnam vet in 1972 who returns home and in episode 3 or 4 catches his wife banging a co worker. At one point Mack’s wife is kidnapped by a thug Mack failed to successfully knock off for his boss known as The Broker. He turns for help to his boss a crime boss who arranges hits and is known as The Broker for help in finding her and getting her… Read more »

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
5 years ago

Wala, that’s interesting. It’s not really you “looking bad to her” is it? It’s more of an internal battle within you – you have a self-image as a man who lives up to the commitments he makes. So if she flakes or disrespects you or whatever she loses the right to the commitment you made – hence you’re entitled to withdraw the commitment. The logic is similar to married guys whose wives withdraw sex..yes, they made a commitment to fidelity but she broke the agreement first, leaving the guys (morally at least) free to get laid elsewhere. That said, I… Read more »

Agent P
Agent P
5 years ago

@Culum, Well that it seems is the essence of congruency, “to thine own self be true”. Just don’t be true to values that are not yours, e.g. the FI values that are laid upon us as a yoke. Can you live with yourself? Can you hold those around you to the rules you have set for yourself? Do you have the fortitude? Will everything work out the way you want it to if you do hold people to those rules? Broken clock is correct twice a day, thus Joe K can have a small momentary point here, never rely on… Read more »

theasdgamer
5 years ago

@wala

I have been in the situation where a girl or plate disappears and if we had plans or I had agreed to do something I struggle with whether or not to do it fearing I’ll “look” bad if she holds it against me.

I say that it’s her job to keep you from having doubts about whether she will flake…she should contact you to confirm at least the same day. As Ton says, double book…at least have a Plan B that you will enjoy–doesn’t have to be a date.

walawala
walawala
5 years ago

@culum. Right. The fact is men are raised to be true to their word, women aren’t. I read Blackdragon’s rules of the soft next. Some dude asked the same question: “what if you had plans?” Bd’s advice was break them. She should know better. Anyway in my situation i didn’t contact one plate for more than a year. In the most recent case it’s been a month. Neither of them likes being ignored but they don’t want to make the first move. Yes that’s why I have several in my rotation and other projects or plans if one flakes. Also… Read more »

DisgruntledEarthling
DisgruntledEarthling
5 years ago

@Culum
The logic is similar to married guys whose wives withdraw sex..yes, they made a commitment to fidelity but she broke the agreement first,

I tend to think the man (myself in my case) broke the commitment first by not being the RP man he should have been. I know now her withdrawing sex was a natural consequence of me not fulfilling my proper role of being the man in the relationship. It’s easy to blame the woman and justify the cheating but harder to turn the spotlight on yourself and understand in the RP world why it happened.

rugby11
rugby11
5 years ago

Do the christian thing and turn the other cheek…
https://twitter.com/RationalMale/status/827655555770560512

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Culum / Wala Reciprocity is a Dog concept… rooted in the BP Golden Rule. You fail when you expect cats to live up to the standard. Too much of the “nexting” is a buffer… her behavior is telling you something, you haven’t raised your game. Raising your game to get what you want is OK. And there are lines you need to draw, for your own sake. This interplay is an advanced concept. As always living in the DPA frame will help, this is the grease… Imagine Leo Dicaprio texting a chick t hang out at XXX… she ignores… he… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Rugby / Rollo What do? Personally, I’d address the guy, because a wife is property and you don’t touch my property. A simple smile, close space and a flat “what the fuck do you think you are doing?” will chill most guys out… and then they are in your frame. “uh hey man, it’s cool blah blah” usually with palms up. Then move her along. Yeah she liked it, OK… Ummm…. you would like it if a 20YO came up and rubbed your cock right? Use the info to inform your game. I don’t buy the mateguarding is beta, it… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Also great example of DDB eyes ^^^

rugby11
rugby11
5 years ago
Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

What would Rollo do? I wonder?

You could play it off, and tell her, damn girl, you should go fuck that guy and call her bluff… if it was a plate, or some random girl for sure do it that way. But property is property.

Incidentally this was a concept – “ownership” – that Tweedlede and Tweedledumb refused to acknowledge and understand during the marriage “debate”…

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
5 years ago

“she is like “ehhhh yeah it’s nice but maybe I can get this one” with the blinky blinky pretty please eyes, which was almost exactly the same looks wise but 10% more.” i haven’t bought anything expensive for Mrs. EhIntellect in years, not even a Christmas present, birthday present. I’ll make her something from the shop now, but it is satisfying to me primarily. I’ve created art with her in mind only to be disappointed with “I would have done it this way.” or “It’s too imbalanced/don’t like the colors, I don’t know…” All she wanted was the final product,… Read more »

Blaximus
5 years ago

Guy slaps wife’s ass in bar? This kind of thing or something similar has happened maybe 3 times over my married life. ° wife giggles? Lol, Houston we have a serious issue. This would indicate that there was a flaw in my vetting and training. The last time something like that happened was at a party. Dude had been trying to pursue wifey all night. She rebuffed numerous times , each time more firmly than the one prior. The guy was persistent. Then he lightly slapped her ass and she went ballistic. I walked over and wifey held out her… Read more »

Agent P
Agent P
5 years ago

+1 for what Blax has to say on the matter, if she is not self mate guarding, its a problem.

walawala
walawala
5 years ago

@Sentient. The watch story is similar to mine and yes I sold the item already so there is no question about whether I did the right thing. The only question is the feeling of uncertainty an de mixed emotions after.

The beta blue pill thinking is co dependence…basing your feelings and actions around how others see you.

Men “expect” women to withhold sex so they work extra hard to win it back. Blue Pill.

Working through to the point returning the watch becomes second nature is the challenge.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

Rollo: Roosh has already stated he’s given up on Christianity Eh? That won’t sit very well with some of the fans of “NeoMasculinity”, unless they are willing to endure permanent cognitive dissonance. and is “exploring” eastern religion. My guess is he’s covering all his bases before he ends up on Islam or possibly some home brew religion he concocts. Well, my bet is some version of Rumi-poetry or Sufi Islam. Roosh’s real problem is he is “fragile” as in the opposite of “antifragile” due to the narrowness of his previous brand. Books like “Bang Poland” have a limited shelf life.… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Gentlemen Stay with the hypothetical… She giggles… Women are susceptible to the charms of a DPA guy… they are programmed to be so… at some point in your life you may cross paths with a dude who is higher than you on the scale… so of course your wife will react… she is programmed to. Now again the hypothetical is she giggles and seems to like it… it isn’t she drops and blows dood right there… The giggling iis a spontaneous reaction displaying her true mindset. Yes this here ^^^ is true… Blax, you wrote about the fervor of your… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

EhIntellect Speaking of betatizing parents, a popular FI parenting convention here is overwrought romance proposals to prom. Truly pathetic, the parents who allow their sons to humiliate themselves publicly to a girl who’s clueless how to deal with the unearned attention. That stuff is the Grand, Romantic Gesture in the 19th century sense, that’s supposed to sweep a girl off of her feet with sheer grandness and romanticleness. Don’t pay much attention to it, but any parents who would allow it are way out of touch with reality; any father who went along with that would be almost certainly a… Read more »

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
5 years ago

If she giggles…

Short-term I’d pull affection and emotional engagement, curtly ending the night if needed. Tacitly forcing the issue.

Long-term I’d seriously consider why she isn’t mate guarding/isn’t satisfied/shit testing and my role in this.

All women like some form of attention, how she externalizes it speaks to my frame quotient.

if she’s giggling in my presence, in my absence, I’m cucked.

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
5 years ago

@Sentient/Wala – LOL at the watch story. Back in my LTR – quite a few years ago now, so I was in full BP territory (I knew Game existed and had practiced it for a few months before entering the LTR, but I wasn’t very good at it yet and by this point had lost all the hand I entered the LTR with, which was quite a bit). The GF had been talking for ages about taking up photography (she’d never done it before except on her iPhone) as a serious hobby and she kept saying she wanted a DSLR… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

AgentP Broken clock is correct twice a day, thus Joe K can have a small momentary point here, never rely on a woman to be “honorable”. That’s just cover fire from the FI to make you keep you head down. No, honor your commitment to yourself first, then decide if there are any table scraps left for others. Girls like to pretend they are one of the guys. They also are physically weak and still need men psychologically to “move heavy objects” for them; there are any number of “heavy objects” that need moving in a woman’s life, although frankly… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

In the spring, at the time when kings go off to war, David sent Joab out with the king’s men and the whole Israelite army. They destroyed the Ammonites and besieged Rabbah. But David remained in Jerusalem. 2 One evening David got up from his bed and walked around on the roof of the palace. From the roof he saw a woman bathing. The woman was very beautiful, 3 and David sent someone to find out about her. The man said, “She is Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam and the wife of Uriah the Hittite.” 4 Then David sent messengers… Read more »

theasdgamer
5 years ago

@Sentient I don’t buy the mateguarding is beta, it is how it is done. Depends. If you’re around, own your property. If you’re not around, it’s on the woman to mateguard herself. If you’re trying to keep your woman corralled or watched when you’re not around, you’re doing it wrong. You’re in a bar and this guy slaps your wife’s ass. She giggles and seems to like it. What do? Blax and Sentient nailed this. As for What Would Gamer Do…. Depends…if he’s drunk, just move her along. If he’s sober, tell him she’s your wife and move her along.… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

She brings up that obnoxious guy occasionally.

Meow says the Cat…

comment image

What does the Dog hear?

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Uriah was a badass Alpha Male Warrior.

And David was…. the King.

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago
IAS
IAS
5 years ago

@Blaximus: what Sentient said. Attraction is not a choice. The giggle is involuntary and can be triggered by a competent PUA on your wife, regardless of vetting, unless you actually don’t believe certain tenets of the Red Pill (which I think you don’t), inlcuding AWALT. Game works on your wife even if it isn’t you working the game on her. Now, where I think the vetting works is after the giggle, the voluntary actions which are choices is your wife can activate ASD (to differing degrees), by removing herself from the situation etc. BTW if she shit tests in such… Read more »

TuffLuv
TuffLuv
5 years ago

Rollo great finish to the series. I just want to interject without disagreeing with anything you’re saying.. I think it would be great for you to extend this with one more installment about this same topic (unplugging during marriage), but factor in the ‘kid factor’.. especially when the kid(s) is a son. It really does become the controlling factor that prevents a man from taking positive steps to improve the situation. At the risk of boring everyone with more of my story.. 22 yr old Tuff meets 19 yr old hottie the future Mrs. Luv when she arrives as a… Read more »

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
5 years ago

@ Sentient

You think Uriah knew he was being played? His conversion demanded he disobey David, and David blinked. Then Uriah was sent to die. Uriah must of known.

Oh man, I guess we all have mini-Uriah moments.

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

You think Uriah knew he was being played?

Not at all… he executed the Dog plan to perfection… Loyalty, honor, self sacrifice, do unto others… shit man, he could be a mid level accountant with that… Or a Midwest Regional Manager… and BS Troop Leader.

thepatriotblogspot
5 years ago

I read a comment on an article over the weekend regarding marriage and the commenter was breaking down the horizon of bachelorhood across the various age ranges. The one that stood out to me was “bachelorhood after 40 is terminal.” The old blue pill me would have read that comment and been quite sad thinking wow…..I’ve failed at life. Bwahahahahaha. The Red Pill me read that comment and was grateful for two things: 1) I’ll never have to worry about getting ass-raped in divorce court and 2) I managed to swallow the pill before making the greatest mistake a man… Read more »

theasdgamer
5 years ago

@Sentient

She didn’t like the guy…she avoided him on a trip to the bathroom and has never talked to him nor has he been at other dances. Mrs. Gamer considered it an insult because he wasn’t Tom Brady. Remember the Brady Rules…heh

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
5 years ago

Perhaps he knew he was a dead man walking, he disobeyed David, escaped execution publicly, and he knew death was coming. Went all in, let the chips fall.

Then again, there’s a scene from “A Man for All Seasons” where More consoles his wife (I think) by saying such that he won’t be, people aren’t, executed over such things. Was he lying for her benefit or both?

Guys prevaricate re: wives’ cheating, giggling-type behavior.

Denial is a powerful buffer.

Blaximus
5 years ago

@ IAS Of course awalt. You’d be surprised at what a woman’s mind can control. Lol, at competent pua thing. Problem iis, and it’s quite common, you don’t understand vetting and training I grew up where many guys are hyper aggressive iin going after women. Competition was always extreme. Probably on levels you couldn’t even imagine. You learn things in that environment, like how to spot chicks that don’t fold under pressure from another male. You also learn to, as puas love to say, ” always be the highest value option “. Period. Then it’s” let the best man win… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

TuffLuv
The chicks in my age range I’ve dated (37-44), holy shit do they make it clear they want the NICE guy.

That’s what they say. What do they do, though?

Thanks for the long discussion of your own marriage. Hope this place can be helpful to you.

kobayashii1681
5 years ago

“what they really represent is the goal-state of men in the Feminine Imperative’s plan for their lives”….

That is….they’re fucked!😆

theasdgamer
5 years ago

@Blax

You’d be surprised at what a woman’s mind can control. Lol, at competent pua thing.

If a woman catches on EARLY enough, sure, she can remove herself from temptation…however, once she is lit up and bouncing off the walls, her self-control goes to zero and her libido goes sky-high.

kobayashii1681
5 years ago

“The rise of Red Pill awareness of intersexual dynamics on the internet has made for a community of men who find this denial distasteful. Rather than abdicate to the imperative and their wife’s Frame they look to the Red Pill and Game for a remedy to that state.”

Yes…these are the “flogging a dead horse” men/husbands/boyfriends who I hear all the time on Tom Leykis videos on youtube. “Quality woman” “responsibility” are some of their buzzwords.

theasdgamer
5 years ago

The chicks in my age range I’ve dated (37-44), holy shit do they make it clear they want the NICE guy. For chicks, “make it clear (i.e., “say”) they want the NICE guy” doesn’t equal “what they do”. Younger chicks will never admit to their friends that they are sleeping with an older guy. However, if you ask them what they SEE other girls doing, you will get to the truth. A buddy and I asked this of a waitress and she said that young girls back when she was young were with old guys about 50/50 and that they… Read more »

TuffLuv
TuffLuv
5 years ago

@anon That’s my experience.. it’s a requisite if you want access. Not pussy pansy nice.. just well behaved. They still want dominance as you’ll find out when you get them alone.. but I’ve noticed a real queen bee laziness in the ones who can afford it.. financially and looks wise.. they ain’t chasing.. they’re harvesting. It seems they dgaf.. they are the players. Limited experience here.. but definitely very notable differences in the age groups. The 44 yr old was a 9 in her heyday.. so she got mad game. But she is extremely blunt.. not secretive.. not shy about… Read more »

Blaximus
5 years ago

@ Sentient Wifey 1 was an anomaly. I had nothing to fear from Mr Murphy. Lol. Wife 1 fell madly in love with me at the tender age of 13, and had always hoped and dreamed that we would be together one day. Prior to me she had one bf, and an n count of 3-4 ( she claimed 2… I assume 3-4 ). I was a constant enough presence in her life that I was able to observe her behaviors first hand. There were always a bunch of guys around vying for her attention. Some with more money and… Read more »

Blaximus
5 years ago

@ ASD

Then the man is responsible for knowing how to light her up, keep her bouncing off the walls and sending her libido through the roof.

TuffLuv
TuffLuv
5 years ago

@gamer you hit the nail on the head… ” they preferred old guys because the old guys were less insecure.” It really is one massive self-esteem shit test. It’s a must pass. When I said, “They make it clear they want a nice guy”, I did not mean with words.. I mean they WILL next YOU.. and their reasoning is that they see machismo as insecurity.. plain and simple. So you might ask, well how I’m I supposed to be nice and show high self esteem when the chick gives me all sorts of reasons not to? indeed.. it is… Read more »

kobayashii1681
5 years ago

“This is the most difficult part for Blue Pill men wanting to reconstruct themselves. Their mental point of origin doesn’t change, they want to change because they want to be “more Alpha” for their wives, not themselves. The idea is to adopt just enough Alpha that their wives turn the sex spigot back on for them, but never really internalize the Red Pill to the point that is fundamentally changes who they are.” This is the thing – they start adopting red pill concepts, then they meet resistance from their wives. Meanwhile outside the marriage other willing women are noticing… Read more »

Novaseeker
Novaseeker
5 years ago

but I’ve noticed a real queen bee laziness in the ones who can afford it.. financially and looks wise.. they ain’t chasing.. they’re harvesting. It seems they dgaf.. they are the players. Limited experience here.. but definitely very notable differences in the age groups. The 44 yr old was a 9 in her heyday.. so she got mad game. But she is extremely blunt.. not secretive.. not shy about her orbiters.. and some of these guys are quite studly.. but you should see the sickening displays of betatude on her feed.. I’m an empiricist.. they got the same response I… Read more »

DisgruntledEarthling
DisgruntledEarthling
5 years ago

@Tuff
this arrangement is new to me, and look, it’s not lovely or perfect.

I think for folks our age this is an ideal situ

Sisyphus
Sisyphus
5 years ago

I guess I don’t understand getting back with the ex…ever. My first wife cheated on me and we had two kids under 10. I immediately kicked her out and filed for divorce (“…why don’t you get an apartment and the kids and I will stay in the house?” – nope, GET OUT!). I would go to pick the kids up and once in a while she’d wander out in a bra and panties and chat. Nothing. You cheat, the hammer comes down and DONE! I even made her change her name back – I told her she didn’t deserve my… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

ASD She didn’t like the guy… Didn’t like him, yet she is still bringing him up “occasionally”… Watch what they do and all right? Why would she bring him up? 1. Attracted. Attracted does not need to equal “like”. Not a choice right? 2. Testing you, jealousy plot line. comfort test? 3. Testing you, goading “let’s you two fight” plot line. 4. Testing you, are you a cuck? AWALT right? PUA rule make “emotional impact” number 1. Fits right in here. If a woman catches on EARLY enough, sure, she can remove herself from temptation…however, once she is lit up… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Blax

I had nothing to fear from Mr Murphy. well this is mooted by his not being around… But on the theoretical, on the AWALT side of things you have to admit to the possibility that she could come upon who is higher net value than you, and would respond as programmed…

Bromeo
Bromeo
5 years ago
Blaximus
5 years ago

@ Sentient

Yup, awalt, so theoretically anything was possible. If I failed to remember that, potentially iIcould find myself blindsided and in a world of shit.

theasdgamer
5 years ago

@Sentient Mrs. Gamer wasn’t lit up…I stopped watching her after I saw that…I was busy dancing with other women. Mr. Hands made a negative emotional impact on Mrs. Gamer and that was it. He never demonstrated value, so he crashed and burned. Mrs. Gamer said that Hands was drunk and Mrs..Gamer doesn’t tolerate drunks…low value in her eyes. Mrs. Gamer wasn’t lit up about the bodybuilder PUA when she danced with him during group dance lessons. All the other girls were watching the BB PUA with high interest, but Mrs. Gamer didn’t even notice him which she said when I… Read more »

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