Peak Hypergamy

Peak_Hypergamy

Commenter Divided Line came on with such a strong take on Our Sisters’ Keeper I had to riff on it:

Hypergamy is a given and it’s not going anywhere. But even if women’s sexuality is biologically rooted, their rationalizations for it aren’t possible without a compliant culture. So long as women are the damsels, the victims who are put upon by the cruel and all powerful patriarchy, so long as men are perceived to be powerful and free in a way that they clearly are not nor have ever been, open hypergamy is possible. After all, any guy who points it out or complains about it is branded an embittered loser, a misogynist, a creep, and so on, but I wonder to what degree this will change as red pill awareness spreads and penetrates the mainstream. I mean, how long do we think that men will go on smiling and nodding when it’s increasingly the case that more and more of us can see what bullshit all of this is?

What it makes me think of is Alana Massey’s Dickonomics article.

If you haven’t already read it, she goes on and on about how male attention is abundant and cheap, proving that women are well aware of what men who bother with online dating realized from the start. She recognizes the extreme degree of power this gives her before hamstering it away with this:

“Some will read my gleeful rejections on the many faces I encounter on Tinder as evidence of a disturbing uptick in malevolent, anti-male sentiments among single straight women. It is not. It is evidence of us arriving nearer to gender equilibrium where men can no longer happily judge the clear and abundant photos and carefully crafted profiles of women but become incensed when they take the opportunity to do the same.”

How many times have you seen this? All venality, cruelty, selfishness, indifference, etc is justified, of course, because men have it so good, women have it so bad, blah blah etc. So she can write something like this and the sisterhood will nod their heads and no doubt be able to ignore doubt or second thoughts in regards to their atrocious, destructive, and cruel treatment of the opposite sex. Women, like people who rationalize generally, tend to think in bogus bumper sticker one liners because they provide excuses not to think for themselves. And men, after all, just saunter about in the patriarchal torture dungeon of a society free and powerful, and pluck women from the trees before discarding them like jizz towels, so naturally, why should she consider their complexity as human beings or ever recognize what a rotten, horrible human being she is? They’re free to retaliate against men for women’s imaginary oppression.

But how long will they be able to keep employing these rationalizations and getting away with it if the public dialog changes? And it has already begun to change. I’ve watched it happen over the last year. You see more and more disclaimers in articles which appeal to the you-go-girl crowd. It really does seem as if there is a growing awareness that they are full of shit, or at the very least, that maybe there are moral complexities and obligations that come with female social power, to the degree that they are even willing to recognize that power.

Hypergamy isn’t going anywhere, but since men increasingly are comparing notes now and voicing their criticism of women’s bullshit (at least online), maybe it really isn’t the case that women are going to be able to continue this bullshit with public sanction. Is this wishful thinking?

I’ve made the case in several other blog comment and forum threads, but it’s getting almost too easy to point out women’s overt embrace of Open Hypergamy. There was a time – only 4 short years ago – that I would be run up the flagpole for publishing my observations on the ins and outs of women’s sexual strategy. Women in the blogosphere hated the fact that I was exposing their Game. They didn’t like the idea that I was informing men about the plan women had for them or the part they played, and by informing them it represented a fundamental threat to the long term success (and essentially their long term security) of that plan.

If you’re feeling nostalgic you can skim through the comments of posts like Wait For It? or The Threat:

Nothing is more threatening yet simultaneously attractive to a woman than a man who is aware of his own value to women.

[…]

Race to Awareness

Because of women’s relatively short window of peak sexual viability it is imperative that men be as unaware of their slower, but progressively increasing SMV for as long as possible in order for them to achieve the prime directive of female hypergamy; realize the best genetic options and the best provisioning options she has the capacity to attract in that peak window. If Men become aware of their SMV before a woman can consolidate on her options with monogamous commitment her sexual strategy is defeated.

The mistake (and the binary retort) is to think this need for contrivances was concocted in whole as some grand sisterhood conspiracy. This just proves an ignorance of social constructs. For a social contrivance to be such, it necessitates being repeated by society WITHOUT a formal conception – meaning we learn the contrivance from seeing it, internalizing it and repeating it ourselves without forethought. The best social contrivances are inconspicuous and rarely questioned because they’ve been learned without having been formally taught. This is why I think encouraging men NOT to bother trying to understand women is in itself a social convention. Don’t look at that man behind the curtain, just accept it for what it is, enjoy the show, you’re better off that way, the Mighty Oz has spoken.

This is the threat that Game represents to the feminine imperative. Widely shared, objective assessments of Men’s SMV and how it develops is the antithesis of the female sexual strategy. Women’s greatest fear is that they could become the ‘selected’ instead of the ‘selectors’.

Bear in mind I wrote this years before I published Preventive Medicine. This was also only a few years before I formally identified women’s embrace of openly, proudly, flaunting their sexual strategy. I can remember being soundly rebuked by women denying they adhered to anything so callous as an Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks schedule with regard to men.

There was a certain nervous undertone that accompanied their shaming that revealed how protective they were of keeping the plan as ambiguous and secretive as possible from men in general. For every acknowledgement of the biological influences of Ovulatory Shift behaviors by these women there was always an obligatory, “yes, but, people are people, we’re above all that, it’s what’s on the inside that counts, NAWALT” intended to offset the ugliness of it.

Now, the same women who adamantly denied what their functionally opportunistic concept of love represents; the same women who rejected the idea of an Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks sexual strategy openly and triumphantly boast about it. It’s become a source not only of agency, but a proud admission of perceived power on the part of women.

At some point the social impetus behind Open Hypergamy became so blatantly obvious they could no longer deny the truth of it. The Genie was out and it was more advantageous to not only to welcome it, but to brandish and profit from forcing men to accept it. Thus we have Open Hypergamy both subtly and triumphantly waved in our mainstream advertising, our pop-culture, our social media, our music and even the movies we take our kids to enjoy.

To see what is in front of one’s nose needs a constant struggle.
– George Orwell

I expect most of the worst aspects of Open Hypergamy (Overt Hypergamy if you prefer) are fairly obvious to my readers. Even the now the subtle influence in the media and advertising becomes not-so-subtle for men accustomed to seeing things with a Red Pill Lens. We can only shake our heads and hope that so blatant a confession of relishing power in Hypergamy on the part of unaware men will come to light for them.

Divided Line raises a very poignant observation – what’s next? What’s the natural progression?

Hypergamy isn’t going anywhere, but since men increasingly are comparing notes now and voicing their criticism of women’s bullshit (at least online), maybe it really isn’t the case that women are going to be able to continue this bullshit with public sanction. Is this wishful thinking?

I think there is a caveat we have to address here first. With Red Pill awareness it gets very easy to slide down the slippery slope and believe that ‘all women’ will have some equal capacity to enforce the worst of Open Hypergamy on men in general. Yes, in a westernizing context, women have an almost unilaterally state-backed influence on enforcing men’s de facto participation in Hypergamy by order of degree. However, it’s important to remember that men’s willing participation or coercion in it is still (as yet) limited by women’s capacity to attract and involve them.

Men want (and yes, need) sex and will find behavioral and psychological adaptations and workarounds to get it. That may be MGTOW, prostitution, porn or an as yet developed alternative of virtual sex. It may be Red Pill awareness and applied Game, it may be a self-aligning push to pander to the most extreme elements of the Alpha Fucks or Beta Bucks ends of Hypergamy, or it may be upping fame or a false social proof (via personality politicking on social media) that makes for men’s future adaptations.

Peak Hypergamy

I’m not a prognosticator about such things, but I can make logical estimates based on observations. One thing is for certain, and I discussed this with Niko in our talk, intersexual politicking and the condition of women will reach a ‘Peak Hypergamy’ state in the not too distant future. There will indeed come a point when even Blue Pill men will be unable to ignore so gross a power imbalance between the sexes.

There’s been some debate as to whether there’s some socially conscious ‘marriage strike’ in the manosphere for some time, and I think marriage statistics being at an all time low bear much of this out. I don’t think this is the result of some nascent MGTOW awakening, but rather a deductive, peripheral, general awareness men have of Open Hypergamy in our current social order at the moment.

Just as a last aside here, let me state that I am aware of the more militant, absolutists of MGTOW belaboring the idea that ‘the juice aint worth the squeeze’ and the dangers of even approaching a woman risk his being accused of sexual harassment, much less having recreational sex with her leaving a man open to post-sex regret-rape allegation. I get that. It’s part of the ascension toward a ‘Peak Hypergamy’ social state. My question is whether these men would find it worth their while to engage with women if their fears were removed in a post Peak State social order? Some may even live long enough to have to figure that out for themselves.

I think Divided Line is correct – there will come a state when Open Hypergamy’s power consolidation becomes too obvious and the social mechanics the Feminine Imperative has used to ensure that consolidation will be too much for women to maintain as a collective. Then what? What will women rationalize for themselves when they realize their monster has become too much?

I’ll reiterate it again; socially, it didn’t take long for women to transition from a secretive Hypergamy to an open display of it. The same women who called AF/BB the imaginings of misogynous men only 4 years ago are now proudly claiming it as truth (they knew all along) and a means to a power they’ve always had and should openly use.

The social, political and personal stress point of Peak Hypergamy is coming. It may take a bit longer, but there will come a point where even women will be forced to recognize the consequences of legislating their hubris.

500 comments

  1. The basic problem is ; Hypergamy is its own agency. It operates so basically that even the female concious mind is only vaugely aware of its directives.
    Hypergamy jumps, and the female emotional state asks ‘how high’. At which point the mouth is engaged to align the two forces with whatever social mores exist around her.

    I dislike the melodramatic associations, but Hypergamy really is akin to a Manchurian Candidate type situation. The woman is the programmed assasin, the target is some unfortunate dude is unaware of how much damage she’s capable of, and when the rifle fires and the smoke clears…..”oh, totally not my fault. The Sniper Rifle just went off.” Thus, even if you point out her own Hypergamy to a female its like trying to tell the Manchurian Candidate he’s under mind control. Disbelief is the result, and she resumes following her own internal puppetmaster.

    I advance that lengthy paragraph to make this point-assuming there is a social backlash against open Hypergamy, the directive will remain the same. Even if we strip the open proclaimations of it, Hypergamy won’t stop. It’ll reorganize and keep on operating the motivations of women, much like a criminal mafia during a public crackdown.

    Even if we look at the idealized examples of Marriage 1.0, Hypergamy existed. Naturally the female opportunity to exercise it was strictly limited, but let us not pretend that Hypergamy is some invention of modern times or some repressed genie foolish men in power released from a bottle. It has always lurked in the shadows, and no matter how stringent a patriarchial society was, women with the ability to execute their hypergamous directives away from socially aware eyes did so.

    So it would go in a public backlash against Open Hypergamy. Further, I doubt such an event will happen anytime soon. Why?

    Because women in Western nations own the family unit lock, stock, and barrel. In the modern family the wife raises the kids, for good or ill. If a man sets about recognizing and criticising Hypergamy, he won’t do so based on Mom and Dads advice. Dad will either parrot what mother says , or hell be ejected from the home via family court. Mom/Grandma /Auntie will raise her male children to be a steadfast Beta , which given the prevalence of feminized households means we are just seeing the BEGINNING of feminism-slash-hypergamy -as-social law, not the end of it.

    Remember those drunk women you saw at your college homecoming party? They’re gonna be moms someday. I rather doubt the male children of the post feminist women we all scoff at will realize the truth before its way, waaaay too late. If ever.

    Yes we have the manosphere. Yes we have the internet. But those mediums have limits- the internet and the manosphere versus the entire hypergamy driven social current of Western Society is like Galileo versus the old Church. We may be factually right, but the women have the state and social favor in their corner.
    Rather then peak Hypergamy, I believe well see Peak Masculinity instead ; much like Galileo, being a man in tune with who he and his SMV -thus against the prevailing social matriarchy- will transition from being a social faux pas as it stands today to being an explicit criminal offence at face value.

  2. “Hypergamy is a given and it’s not going anywhere. But even if women’s sexuality is biologically rooted, their rationalizations for it aren’t possible without a compliant culture. So long as women are the damsels, the victims who are put upon by the cruel and all powerful patriarchy, so long as men are perceived to be powerful and free in a way that they clearly are not nor have ever been, open hypergamy is possible. After all, any guy who points it out or complains about it is branded an embittered loser, a misogynist, a creep, and so on, but I wonder to what degree this will change as red pill awareness spreads and penetrates the mainstream. I mean, how long do we think that men will go on smiling and nodding when it’s increasingly the case that more and more of us can see what bullshit all of this is?”

    Exactly. I spoke with plenty of women about this- married and not, and most of them openly admit that this isn’t true. That they marry guys because ‘they love him’. For example one of them was married for 12 years, with a kid. Guy had mortgage for 30 years. Bringing money to her all the time. While I pointed out that this particular chap had great prospects of becoming life-long provider (mangina from the very young age, heavy blue pilled) – she replied that well she did not know he will become successful (which is a joke in itself because I don’t believe being a corporate rat is a success in any way) and he did not had any money when she meet him. But isn’t being a great prospect is exactly like this? Being a complacent chap who will believe in female love so he will work his ass out to “provide”? Of course she was too fat and stupid too marry some alpha dude who will leave her as soon as he would realize who she is.

    Hypergamy is real as hell. This way or another.

    What still baffles me is how openly those women lie when saying it does not exist. They lie in front of us and think we are that stupid to not be able to tell the truth. Because social paradigm teaches us that ‘women don’t lie’.

    Regards
    __
    Datson H.
    https://redmalehummingbird.wordpress.com/

  3. I think they won’t willingly abandon their peak. They’ll justify it as being “good for men”, meaning it somehow benefits us, and they’ll try to consolidate as best they can with all the white knights elected to office. Oh sure, there will be lots of alpha widows who are unhappy, but they’ll get their cash and prizes somehow.

    I would say that the only solution to hypergamy is individually, calmly, and openly confronting the destructive side of it and exposing it to the perpetrator. Basically, I believe the only solution is flat out backbreaking levels of frame establishment on a societal level.

  4. @SD
    “Because women in Western nations own the family unit lock, stock, and barrel.”
    I was just journaling about that to myself. It hurts to have to admit and you can’t create dialogue in a social context with that. When it does become criminal I won’t participate anymore. I’m leaving somewhere else.

    @Jeremy
    “and they’ll try to consolidate as best they can with all the white knights elected to office.”

    Was just walking on the streets of DC and thinking about that.

    “Basically, I believe the only solution is flat out backbreaking levels of frame establishment on a societal level.”

    Could you explain further still working on my own frame.

  5. “Complaceny will kill you” applies here. Western women are becoming complacent in their open hypergamy because the mass media is supporting them. You’ll know that the end of it is nigh when Hollywood releases a movie that, as its central theme, openly mocks modern female hypergamy.

  6. Its already starting… There are people running for office in my state with billboards for their campaigns looking to do away with lifetime alamony

    I laughed my ass off when I saw it the other days

  7. Regarding the socially conscious and coordinated action (conspiracy) vs. general awareness (consensus) argument:

    In the vast majority of cases, what looks like conspiracy and coordination is really just consensus. Similar people, with similar needs/priorities, backgrounds and values, see various issues similarly, react to market forces similarly, and come up with similar programs and solutions. That doesn’t rule out occasional minor conspiratorial actions in support of the consensus (e.g. trying to deny some data showing really inconvenient truths or shout down and defame persons revealing those truths) but these minor conspiracies are quite tiny in comparison to the overarching consensus.

    Feminine Imperative (AFBB)? => Consensus (to the extent they can get away with it), not conspiracy

    Marriage Strike? => Consensus (to the extent it occurs), not conspiracy

    Tradcons? Man up and marry those sluts? => Consensus (to the extent they can convince themselves and others), not conspiracy

    etc. etc.

    None of these things requires some evil behind-the-scenes conspiracy. It all comes down to how similar people with similar needs/wants react in similar ways to similar stimuli.

    tl;dr = Biology uber alles

  8. I came from the low middle class in Brazil (we are poor but stable, intact family, etc.) and I can see that hypergamy constrained by culture is way less crazy than in your unrestrained society.

    When I first read about rationalizations and the hamster here in the manosphere I was shocked, I don’t encounter such things in my daily life like “if it’s X it doesn’t count, I was really astonished and amused lol.

    My theory is that these women are teached accountability, long-term thinking, lack of the entitled princess mindset, respect for men and down to earth rational thinking; by culture and also by sheer necessity. When a woman grows in a not abundant economic condition she is forced to be rational and keep her head pointed to reality. The ladies here work to in the day to pay the college they go in the night, there’s no insulation from reality.

    Of course when I ascended I came to make contact with high class feminist queens, but they aren’t the voice of society.

  9. Also the girls that went to school with me were married some just after highschool others by 20-22, the carousel is small here and the riders are known by what they are. I think it is a result of more masculine men, her highschool sweetheart is actually capable of getting her wet; conservative culture; economic necessity, a couple is financially stronger; the absence of the “will go find myself” mindset, if your husband satisfy you in your ovulation why risk the relationship to get some strange dick; and other things.

  10. I’ve moved back to a large, cosmopolitan city in my home country (approximately 5 million) and never has it been as plain as day.

    My social circles straddle international and local, younger and older. This year I’ve banged 10-12 women ages ranging 22 to 42 (I’m 32), as well as numerous ‘dates’, ‘meetups’ and lower level inconclusive fondlings; the dynamics of female strategies play out repeatedly as described by Rollo. The young international crowd here for a short time? Immediately up for a bang and proactive about it. The now, the tingles, is priority. I introduced one foreign girl to tinder and even whilst using it, would simultaneously deny doing anything dirty, because our social circles overlap, which would dent her supply of beta orbiters (her friends would still fill me in on the details (intra-sexual competition), such as fucking guys without condoms, whilst simultaneously being sweet as pie to her beta orbiters).

    The slighter older (27-32) who are either international students or on work visas? Concurrent dating, hoping to snare a good ‘catch’. From these, I frequently get subtle and not so subtle enquiries about my job, where I live where I eat lunch etc. I’ve even been asked out on a coffee date which was a point blank interview. with these ones, bringing them back to my place all of a sudden elicits responses of, “i want to take it slow” etc. (i live in a waterfront hotel).

    I’ve had girls furious that I’ve tired of banging them after running subtle screening and tests to discover unsavoury realities (such as the BPD headcase taking it in the ass from multiple guys unprotected), point blank denying undeniable lies (photographic proof) because it conflicts with their AF/BB imperative.

    The older international tourists here for a short time – same as the young un’s, up for a bang without much resistance.

    The local girls, with established networks, parental expectations and social pressure? Postcode and job come up in the first sentence. Unless I work with them or know them through work, I’m direct, frank and unambigious about my intentions.

    It’s liberating in a way to see that women act according to the AF/BB timeline – it makes them predictable.

  11. “My theory is that these women are teached accountability, long-term thinking, lack of the entitled princess mindset, respect for men and down to earth rational thinking; by culture and also by sheer necessity. When a woman grows in a not abundant economic condition she is forced to be rational and keep her head pointed to reality. The ladies here work to in the day to pay the college they go in the night, there’s no insulation from reality.”

    You can teach them only as much accountability as much as you can teach calculus to a dog.
    They learn to do and to not do something only as a way to be in good books of those they depend upon.
    They can not actually comprehend the consequences via long-term thinking.
    Unfortunately, only Dread works, hard dread or soft dread.
    Even the NAWALT women I know in non-Western countries are product of their fathers and societies.
    They are repetitively reinforced trained to behave as expected.

    ” the carousel is small here and the riders are known by what they are. ”

    Your choices, your consequences , a simple truth that any male can comprehend but every female can not comprehend.
    (It is biological imperative for the survival of our species that the females behave irrationally.)
    In western country, if you become a single mom, then there is govt financial support. The Govt can even go after the father for child support.
    Because of lot of white knights in West. These women can hope to remarry.
    Not in Brazil.

    “I think it is a result of more masculine men, her highschool sweetheart is actually capable of getting her wet; conservative culture; economic necessity, a couple is financially stronger; the absence of the “will go find myself” mindset, if your husband satisfy you in your ovulation why risk the relationship to get some strange dick; and other things.”

    Promise the Brazilian women that they would be shielded fro consequences of their choices and see the mindset switch within a nanosecond.

    One more thing to consider, females generally have low self worth, apriori. With each subsequent alpha/beta their self worth increases.
    Western women’s self worth is way higher than that of Brazilian women.
    So they simply cannot be happy with a lesser man.

  12. In my opinion the current climate of rampant Hypergamy has a lot to do with men giving themselves a low value. The loser being chosen by some perceived goddess is a common blue pill romantic fantasy. It goes further to beta men giving her all upfront for free. And in my opinion even wanting that 9.5 to show her off and demonstrate the man’s value through her is part of that thinking. Being conscious about your own value and dealing with your offers in a way preserving it’s value through scarcity are the counters, defeating the female sexual strategy.

    So what is lacking today is mostly the understanding of men about the sexual market and how to deal with women properly.

    And regarding this we shouldn’t underestimate the importance of the internet. The traditional male spaces may be gone, but this new one on the internet has offerings no male space ever had. In traditional male spaces for example there was no anonymity, which made it difficult for men talking about their defeats, hurts and all that. On the internet there is no shame in anonymity, allowing for a much more open talk among men about the issues. And then of course a male space on the internet can collect much more different experiences of men and information about women.

    The male tool in all this is rationality and rationality strives with more and better information. The female tool on the other hand is emotional manipulation which doesn’t gain anything from the internet or shared knowledge.

    I expect a huge backlash on the advance of feminism and the FI, not only wiping out the changes of 30 years but much more.

  13. Why should AF:BB stop at Wedlock? Last weekend (as I mentioned at Dal’s) I boned-up on what I take to be the extreme of Hypergamy – something which clearly would not be to every woman’s taste or ability – namely Cuckoldry, which one might describe as post single-dom carousel-riding. The husbands gain a masochistic yet intense sense of shame yet mixed with intense sexual desire; the women screw with their twenty-something fuck-buddies or en-masse with men beyond the concept of well-endowed and doing things that they say they would never do with their husbands. After a session the husband ‘takes’ the wife back. From my reading it would seem that half of these women were, before their introduction to the life-style, chaste and faithful to their husbands, tend to be educated women – attorneys teachers, members of church committees, so not on their own right needful of cash – and yet they still need the stability and respectability of a good provisioning husband, if only as an anti-slut defence.

    Women marrying-up is nothing new, yet the open disregard for any attempt at or semblance of chastity or sexual fidelity is I think something we have not much seen. Last week in the bar with my friend, his very cute and petite wife came in and (it seemed the natural thing to do) I pulled her on to my lap. We began to kiss, (play acting, but was it?) her husband desperately and vainly attempting to get the camera on her mobile to record the event. This is not the first time – for he seems to get turned on by his wife’s sexual antics . She however goes bezerk should he even look at another woman. By taking her back (as I assume he did later that evening) is he not doing exactly what the churches encourage men to do, namely ‘Wife-up those former sluts!’. Is there not, as much for the newly married man as for the cuckold, a sexual frisson in the knowledge that though she is now yours, once, she had more cock than you had sliced bread – as if you are experiencing all this by proxy (at one remove).

    I have no idea where this Hypergamy is heading.

  14. @SD”I dislike the melodramatic associations, but Hypergamy really is akin to a Manchurian Candidate type situation. The woman is the programmed assasin, the target is some unfortunate dude is unaware of how much damage she’s capable of, and when the rifle fires and the smoke clears…..”oh, totally not my fault. The Sniper Rifle just went off.” Thus, even if you point out her own Hypergamy to a female its like trying to tell the Manchurian Candidate he’s under mind control. ”

    Makes me wonder if the “mind controlled beta-kitten-slave” women in conspiracy theory websites like Vigilant citizen is just women being women. They also mention a “handler” in these celebrity women lives. The handler is probably an alpha male.

  15. Jeremy: “I would say that the only solution to hypergamy is individually, calmly, and openly confronting the destructive side of it and exposing it to the perpetrator. Basically, I believe the only solution is flat out backbreaking levels of frame establishment on a societal level.”

    LH: “So what is lacking today is mostly the understanding of men about the sexual market and how to deal with women properly.

    And regarding this we shouldn’t underestimate the importance of the internet. The traditional male spaces may be gone, but this new one on the internet has offerings no male space ever had. In traditional male spaces for example there was no anonymity, which made it difficult for men talking about their defeats, hurts and all that. On the internet there is no shame in anonymity, allowing for a much more open talk among men about the issues. And then of course a male space on the internet can collect much more different experiences of men and information about women.”

    In light of the above two comments I think that Rollo adds a tremendous depth to TRM by giving the interviews he has over the past year. What I read into his interviews is emphasis by him on a bottoms up approach which gives each man, by way of manosphere knowledge, the impetus and tools to improve himself to vault him self into the better percentage side of the Pareto Principle (the top 20%). A top down approach is going nowhere in changing peak Hypergamy. Just watch the headlines on Google News (the shaming of masculine football players and the current news of the presidential election with Trump and a few female candidates and interviewers) and realize that the FI has a lock on the top down approach to employing women’s sexual strategy.

    I would rephrase Jeremy’s statement this way:

    I would say that the only solution to hypergamy is Societally, calmly, and openly confronting the destructive side of it and exposing it to the perpetrator. Basically, I believe the only solution is flat out backbreaking levels of frame establishment on a Individual level.

    If an individual masculine male is aware (The Red Pill) and utilizes tools (Game) it doesn’t have to be backbreaking. If an individual man through mastery and mindset lowers the figurative and literal barriers in his way to become better at being a man, then his life is less frustrating in an attempt to accomplish his sexual strategy.

  16. “I have no idea where this Hypergamy is heading.”

    Same as Roman decadence , upto the end of civilization. A new beginning after that.

    Even if you keep following TRM protecting your own house, all your neighbours houses will be on fire.

    The parasite will keep consuming the host; until there is no more host and then there is no more parasite.

    It takes a lot of effort to produce something, but not much to usurp it.

  17. Still, I’m ambivalent to why all of this is discussed with this bad connotation.

    I’m the lifting young guy who tries to live his passion 40h a week, and the world around me is just overhead I interact with. Reading Rollo is enabling me to take the most out of the social back and forth.

    So assuming all of this holds as it stands. If I don’t plan on getting a wife and kids, don’t get in trouble with the law, and am RedPill aware – am I not in the best position of all with where this is going?

    I could only arguing in the other direction by saying that if people around me get less happy (namely older women, ugly men, men who want 3 kids and a wife), then this affects society and hence me too.
    Not sure which arm outweighs.

  18. BuenaVista made a comment a while ago about AF, BB and then AF becoming the norm.

    I wonder if the window for BB is narrowing and getting smaller and slowly diminishing.

    The rampant stories of cuckholdry, swinging (sadly I know a few swingers) and cheating makes me wonder whether we’ve reached peak Beta Bucks.

    As BBs become more aware of the dynamic and delay marrying it might be the case that women will simply chuck in the towel of false pretences and solely pursue AFs.

    I know a lot of frustrated women currently looking for BBs and one of the significant prerequisites is money. As the comparative earning power between sexes narrows the requisite amount of income necessary to facilitate BBs has become inordinately high.

    The very value that defines BBs, higher comparative earning capacity, is becoming a diminishing pool. At the lower end of the socio economic spectrum it virtually doesn’t exist while at the higher end they are matching assortatively, which leaves a solid chunk in the middle without the BBs cushioning.

    It seems like the FI is hell bent on creating a new dynamic to fill in the gap, the genuine cuck. Look to the FI to try to normalise the cuck in the near future.

  19. @rugby11ljh

    Could you explain further still working on my own frame.

    I’m saying I think the only solution is significant red pill awareness in the general population, to the point where most men work to establish their own frame. Anything short of that and I believe that women will not abandon peak hypergamy.

  20. Then what? What will women rationalize for themselves when they realize their monster has become too much?

    I wonder . . . will some women try to rein this in themselves? The secret is a powerful one and when it becomes too pervasive, I think there are many women who will work hard to put the cat back in the bag. The question is, what else will they be willing to put back in the bag to get what they want?

  21. @Lurker

    There’s a study that points out exactly what you are saying. The more prosperous the society, the greater the sex differences. There’s more freedom for women to exploit their sexual strategy in the “West”.

    It is also ironic as you point out. This freedom may ultimately make them less happy!

  22. I think it is more than social constructs that support the prime directive of female hypergamy. Biology works against a man’s awareness of the female sexual strategy.

    While a 22 year old female is aware of her shining star SMV in part because of all the same aged and older males vying for her attention, few males are similarly positioned at that age. We don’t have an awareness of what we haven’t experienced. For my own self, I was tall, gangly, poor, had bad teeth and no car. Had I a vision of the man I was to become in 10 short years, I would not have recognized the confident, well paid young man with a truck, straight teeth, and an Aikido black belt. How do you communicate to a 22 year old male the experience of standing on a mountain top when he has been pinned in an oppressive jungle all his life? You can’t. “Red pill” is rarely swallowed, it is absorbed over time.

    In our early twenties, we males do not know what we do not know. It doesn’t take much to convince a man in a position such as I was to believe the message of the female imperative. The social constructs on this one may be a house of cards, built by women and supported by men. But it’s what we’ve been conditioned to do and don’t know any different. That is, until the SMV coin is flipped. As men begin to experience a rising SMV and, for those paying attention, the deflation of female SMV, I believe we intuitively grasp that the frame is changing. However, many men do not advance to the level of understanding how the frame has changed or how to use it to their advantage. Consequently, they still fall before the prime directive of female hypergamy. Fall, rinse, repeat.

    Considered from this point of view, we are constrained by biology. There is, of course, much more to this dimension as Rollo has articulated in numerous posts. To state it simply, physically, women mature faster than men. Carried by that biological undercurrent, women’s SMV peaks sooner than it does for men. All else magnifies the effect.

  23. I sense a lot of defeatism here with regards to the FI etc and the idea that it cannot be defeated. I believe this to be misplaced. Yes as part of RP its easy to be discouraged and cynical but in doing so you assign to much strength to the enemy, specifically feminism. I would submit that feminism in step with peak Hypergamy is and has jumped the shark somewhat which is good news really. The pendulum has swung almost all the way to one side.
    Hypergamy will undercut itself as it always does for it is rooted in that doubt, the doubt that she is not getting the optimal outcome for a given situation, the doubt that she has the best the world of men has to offer her. This same doubt will cause the pendulum to swing back some time in the other direction. It won’t be for the benefit of men per se, but if they realize some benefit, well so be it. My belief, perhaps an act of willful optimism on behalf of my children’s generation, is that there will be a conscious awareness of stable two parent families actually being a rare and valuable commodities. What woman doesn’t want that which is rare and valuable? This is where the doubt will play to the benefit of capable and aware men of RP persuasion, where we will be better able to dictate terms.

    I liken this current state of affairs to a country like Greece awash in crushing public debt due to years of profligate spending, lack of facing consequences and unable to ever repay its debt. It’s very clearly on the verge of bankruptcy. So it goes for our current inter-gender relationships. the SMV marketplace is highly overheated with transactions happening at hundreds of times the speed that it did a few decades ago. The whole thing will blow up and there will be a major market correction at some point. We will see lots of pop culture paeans to Ms decade past the wall who cannot find happiness despite what she was sold by the hivemind as the path to success in her life.
    RP will be ascendant for it will prove again and again in living colour that going through life with your eyes wide open as a man, being Alpha, being a leader, being patriarchal works, and it works for the family unit and in turn it works for a community and in turn it works for countries as a whole. RP culture will take root and it will demonstrate and not explicate why and how it works. The lines between functional pockets of culture and dysfunctional zones will become ever sharper IRL and this will ultimately lead to some serious soul searching. The Trumpening is just a symptom of this going on I think. People want to hear some real talk, they are eager for meaning and direction and order.

  24. Women have always excelled at denying the existence of the power they have. They violate that at their peril.

    The thing they can’t change is the thing they envy. Men truly do create almost everything of value in this world. After women overplay their hand and healthy MGTOW philosophy explodes as a result, some sort of balance has to be restored. By healthy MGTOW, I am referring to the kind Rollo and Niko discussed in the last blog entry.

    When men as a group take our collective ball and go home, things can only radically improve. Waking up our brothers is of prime importance.

    They are going to violate law 47, “Do Not go Past The Mark You Aimed For, In Victory Learn When To Stop”

  25. @johnnycomelately,

    The last half-dozen or so women I’ve dated I would describe as alpha widows on an AF/BB/AF trajectory. It’s just anecdotal but I do see this everywhere, including with married women. (Married women I know, and married women I dated prior to their marriage — and make plain their ongoing interest.) My theory is that it’s a function of female sexual entitlement that was expressed fully in the long-past AF phase, then frustrated by the inevitable sexual boredom of the BB phase.

    I don’t think my experiences reveal a lot of self-awareness or abstract thinking about Overt Hypergamy. I confess that this surprises me because I date, typically, highly educated sorts who think carefully and well about their careers — and are highly rewarded for doing so. The choices and phase-shifting just seem to be absorbed as “just what you do if you’re a modern woman.” Similarly, I’ve been surprised at the casualness with which women who remain in, or recently left, a stable BB situation go full sex maniac (AF reversion).

    So that’s what I see happening next. It makes sense that people would revert, if able to revert in the SMP, to peak sexual habits. Why would they forget and dismiss them? This theory is probably related to the growing cuck fetish lifestyle, as noted by others, but I don’t know anything about that stuff.

    If AF/BB/AF is a real thing, it’s very, very dark. BB selections (men selected by the women following the Sandberg protocol) will explicitly be used for children, a vacation from work for a while, and whatever resources they can extract once they re-emerge from their breeding phase and hit the streets again in pursuit of renewed AF. And the women will justify it and celebrate it, just as they today trumpet the two-phase hypergamy curve.

    Obviously, I’m dating women who have had time for a few ‘relationship’ chapters in their lives (they’re in the 35-50 range) so my observations may not have much value for the younger guys.

  26. Hypergamy is and has always been there, so this is essentially about covert versus overt hypergamy, no?

    What’s the benefit to women to making hypergamy covert again?

    Isn’t overt/open hypergamy a completely rational decision?

    In open hypergamy, alpha’s and young women win…is that not the point of hypergamy to begin with?

    Aren’t beta males and women beyond child bearing years just the support staff and hired help?

  27. Consider a girl that is with a guy who is perceived as the highest SMV guy she has access to. Say he’s being a real jerk, causing her emotional stress.

    Is there an edge of how much hyper gamy can take – is there predictive measure to how long she will take shit from the guy? How to figure out that point?

  28. Assuming the sexual market is always seeking balance, as all markets are, then it’s likely a product of too much beta provisioning.

    The goldfish will grow to match the size of his environment.

    1. Too many men.

    2. Guaranteed BB for women. This is from beta’s marrying/supporting women, and from government legislation demanding it.

    If men check out of society, the government will legislate their checking back in to maintain BB. Where does that lead? Socialism? Communism? Slavery?

    How much of that does the western world have already?

  29. Two reasons I think women are now following a AF/BB/AF protocol:

    a. women (aged 35-50), in our sexualized culture, do hang a significant element of their self-esteem on their ongoing sexual attractiveness. They have been taught and they want to prove that “they’ve still got it”, even after they’ve lost sight (in the rearview mirror) of the Wall. They do envy and they do compete (in their social construct) with pre-Wall women, and especially those Empowerrrrrred Gurrrls still in their pre-Wall/AF/promiscuous phase.

    b. it’s way too easy to take advantage of a BB man who thinks she loves him “just for who he is.” Anything that guy gets after even a five year marriage and a couple of children is a function of her beneficence.

    As support for item a), note Sharon Stone’s special pleading in that nude profile she just did for some men to ask her out. She doesn’t understand why she, iconic AF female partner, is getting less action than before. Then she strips nude for a glossy magazine just to prove she’s still got it. *ALL* the women I know behave similarly, though their selfies and FaceTime sessions are rarely as demure as Stone’s photo spread.

  30. Women will never rein themselves in…in recorded history they never have, societal pressures such as culture, war , famine or lack of men forces them to. I think we are getting close to the peak, third wave feminism has jumped the shark, with their demands so insane they’re post satirical, not even The Onion can keep ahead of them.

    What will happen is an “The Emperor has no clothes on” event, much like the peak of the Communist Red Scare when Senator Joseph R. McCarthy was told Have you no sense of decency..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqQD4dzVkwk

  31. Rollo, when you make predictions, just make sure you don’t get too caught up in the small world of blogs and debates on this issue. None of my 20somthing, educated, Internet-Age, male friends have ever mentioned anything like your ideas to me.

    I don’t know many men that could ever be unplugged. Even among the people you have helped unplug, how many do you think really “get it” enough to explain it properly to the people they care about (men/women) on both sides of the debate.

    I’ve chosen a dental career. So at 24 my SMV is exactly on track with the potential that you present. Your ideas instantly clicked with my own experience. I am concerned that there is little hope for non-STEM American men will accept being unplugged. This is because most will have to endure a delayed and blunted SMV curve. In a completely different sense of “Red Pill Awareness” our currency just isn’t what it used to be. I spend 100,000 each year in loans. That’s 100% of a middle class income. Lest generation it was more like 1/15 of a middle class income. It might take me 10+ years to climb out of debt that a previous generation couldn’t even imagine.

    I’m afraid that the other men have it worse. The Blue Collars, the Education Majors, the Graphic Design Majors, will be in for a big surprise when they are unplugged. These men will learn that a women’s attraction demands certain things: Be the leader, stay in control, DHV, look sharp, don’t show your emotional cracks, BHtB (Bring Home the Bacon). But they will be pulling in an income that simply can’t potentially support the Wife and 3 Kids American Dream. She’ll have to work too, and I’ve yet to see a LTR women who doesn’t resent having to go half/half with her man working some PR job she stumbled into after college.

    The 35 y/o male teacher can’t reach the peak he once could. He can propose to his “true love” and “equal”, 32 y/o Ms. H, down the hall. Or he pursue the Red Pill reality while trying to accept that society/the economy/the government (Maaaaaan) has essentially turned him into a perpetual financial man-child that needs 100% more income just to afford a house. Since option 2 hurts so much, maybe he will go with the romantic option 1.

  32. “Covert hypergamy, in the long run, gains women more status.”

    How? And what kind of status? Socioeconomic? More alpha sperm?

    Does hypergamy care about status?

  33. Open hypergamy is why white knighting has seemingly exploded too, right?

    Beta’s trying to usurp the alpha’s, but also the beta’s attempt at keeping hypergamy in check?

  34. What will bring down Overt Hypergamy is the Overt Rudeness modern young women display to men they do not deem worthy. Men can put up with a lot. But when they are given no respect, when they are treated with outright contempt, any man will reach a breaking point. In the past, men may not have gotten laid, but the girls at least had the manners to giggle about him behind his back. Now they’re rude and disrespectful to his face.

    Case in point is the Beta of the Month contest on CH. Heartiste calls this a mini-trend among women, but look at this poor bastard. Not a bad looking guy; takes a picture with a girl and is publicly shamed. This really, really pissed me off.

    https://heartiste.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/botm5.jpeg?w=771&h=1355

  35. I wonder . . . will some women try to rein this in themselves?

    With widespread open hypergamy men would never want to commit in a beta frame. Post epiphany women would have to resort to tricking the beta into believing that he’s an alpha… Which might even end up being a self fulfilling prophecy. Or… Knowing women… pretending that the target of commitment is an Alpha might trick her sub-conscience into actually being attracted to the man.

    Another outcome might just be that the market evens out on the male side… You start seeing the 30 year old women marry the 45 year old men. Which is not necessarily a bad thing.

  36. Does hypergamy care about status?

    Hypergamy is ALL about status.

    Right now, and for the past 40 years or so, we’ve had a whole host of relatively unattractive women telling all women how they are oppressed and to get out of the patriarchy. If you don’t, the problem with no name will get you and men will be your tyrants.

    Women went after this, attractive and unattractive alike because it brought them a new sense of power, a masculine and overt power that women crave. That power dynamic is now starting to shift back to men in the form of many men just not caring any more. These indifferent men, are getting their needs met elsewhere and it is going to start to affect more and more attractive women as well (it already is).

    Attractive women can no longer guarantee they will be able to marry and have a family one day. They can no longer guarantee the status that will come from what a man can give her and she won’t have that as a competitive tool any more to use against other women. This is a HUGE competitive tool.

    As more and more women are affected and only the very best women can gain that status of a high value man taking her, look for women to turn on each other more and more.

    The Ronin is right. Women will never rein it in themselves, but they will react to men taking away their status markers.

  37. “To see what is in front of one’s nose needs a constant struggle.
    – George Orwell

    … However, it’s important to remember that men’s willing participation or coercion in it is still (as yet) limited by women’s capacity to attract and involve them.

    Men want (and yes, need) sex and will find behavioral and psychological adaptations and workarounds to get it. That may be MGTOW, prostitution, porn or an as yet developed alternative of virtual sex. It may be Red Pill awareness and applied Game, it may be a self-aligning push to pander to the most extreme elements of the Alpha Fucks or Beta Bucks ends of Hypergamy, or it may be upping fame or a false social proof (via personality politicking on social media) that makes for men’s future adaptations.”

    I remember making a comment a week or so ago about how men who were still willing to begin a committed monogamous relationship or marriage in today’s world were essentially living in the past. The Orwell quote picks up on just this “struggle”; namely that guys who are trying to come to terms with our current environment of open hypergamy and how to best navigate it are going to find the “adaptations and workarounds” suggested above. Pretty much all of my male friends and acquaintances are not in a serious relationship and do not have any children. The guys I know who are in such an arrangement (at around my age or younger) get almost universal disapproval from those of us on the outside because we can see the handwriting on the wall.

    Look at all of the articles as of late where young women lament the death of marriage, dating culture and traditional courtship. It’s not that they actually want these things–rather that they except men to blindly dance to their tune so they can be appropriately utilized by the feminine imperative. Their frustration comes from the fact that many of the men in their 20-30s now are changing the song and walking away rather than being led off the edge of a cliff.

  38. Peak Hypergamy has already happened in history.

    A good example is Lebanon 1920 to present.
    In 1920 Beruit was called the Paris of the Mediterranean. It had a society and culture on par with most of Europe. Women wore the latest fashions while strolling past sidewalk cafe’s.

    Demographics in 1926:
    Christian 84%
    Muslim 16%

    By 1985 those Demographics switched with muslims at 80%+.
    And of course Lebanon was a Democracy with majority vote rule… so… you can guess what happened.

    The implications to society if you don’t make your women have children are really quite startling if you are a student of history.

  39. CaveClown+NARWALT:

    See that’s why global communities are a little funny. I work in Germany and with a guy from the US Air Force. It’s a little silly maybe, but at 27, talking with him, I realized for the first time how “Socialism” has a bad connotation for Americans. To me, hearing the word didn’t affect me more than “Democracy”. I’ve read kids (I hope) on the redpill reddit argue that capitalism is inherently redpill. YEAH!! But then I get remember that in the US, citizens have to pay money to get a university education… Just saying: In central Europe, till 25, you get “kids money” (a few hundreds of Euros per month) and that suffices for the university indoctrinated overhead you transfer. And Greece isn’t fucked because of lavish socialism.

  40. bnon

    August 19th, 2015 at 7:59 am

    “Still, I’m ambivalent to why all of this is discussed with this bad connotation.

    I’m the lifting young guy who tries to live his passion 40h a week, and the world around me is just overhead I interact with. Reading Rollo is enabling me to take the most out of the social back and forth.

    So assuming all of this holds as it stands. If I don’t plan on getting a wife and kids, don’t get in trouble with the law, and am RedPill aware – am I not in the best position of all with where this is going?”

    Try taxation and regulation through the roof, economic collapse, societal collapse, possible invasion and replacement by the conquerors. I think there’s plenty in there to affect an early adherent of MGTOW.

  41. I’ve only found your site a month ago but have read almost every single one of your posts. You’re doing a great job Rollo, keep it up. I was “redpilled” before, but your work helped me really understand the concepts I only superficially knew before.

    Anyways, back on topic. I don’t think it’ll take long for peak hypergamy. As you said 4 years is all it took for open hypergamy to creep out from the shadows.

    Look at some other trends. Gay marriage. Under a decade the policy has seen a complete reversal. Transexuals. What was considered mental illness for centuries has suddenly become “courageous” and “beautiful”.

    The media is powerful, and you gave examples of open hypergamy in the current media. But like a crack in a dam, it’s going to burst completely soon. Remember how everyone was convinced to put rainbows in their Facebook picture? Heck, even look at fads like Gangnam style, harlem shake. Call it what you will, viral, meme, trend, fad, etc, but the general public are more easily molded now than ever.

    Hypergamy will be the next fad. It’ll be in your face. And Babylon will celebrate it. Then when the fad recedes, it will be accepted as it is. Western women will no longer have to hide any sort of intention. AFBB will be the “new norm”.

    Peak Hypergamy will be coming within 5 years. I guarantee it.

  42. @bnon
    “Is there an edge of how much hyper gamy can take – is there predictive measure to how long she will take shit from the guy? How to figure out that point?”

    From life experience I would say their is no limit on a biological level. Tools are forfarthers used in social context put a limit on it. Not so much in 2015

  43. I dislike the melodramatic associations, but Hypergamy really is akin to a Manchurian Candidate type situation. The woman is the programmed assasin, the target is some unfortunate dude is unaware of how much damage she’s capable of, and when the rifle fires and the smoke clears…..”oh, totally not my fault. The Sniper Rifle just went off.” Thus, even if you point out her own Hypergamy to a female its like trying to tell the Manchurian Candidate he’s under mind control. Disbelief is the result, and she resumes following her own internal puppetmaster.

    Brilliant.

    If a man sets about recognizing and criticising Hypergamy, he won’t do so based on Mom and Dads advice. Dad will either parrot what mother says , or hell be ejected from the home via family court.

    Sure, if he’s a dumb@$$. He has to have options (including financial options), then he can threaten to walk out. The one who is ready to divest quickest wins. Been there, done that, it works. Rollo says something similar somewhere if you don’t believe me.

  44. “I think Divided Line is correct – there will come a state when Open Hypergamy’s power consolidation becomes too obvious and the social mechanics the Feminine Imperative has used to ensure that consolidation will be too much for women to maintain as a collective. Then what?”

    Most problably a new era of sexual conservatism (“to make things right again”)…a neo-Victorian phase if you will.

  45. TC

    August 19th, 2015 at 1:46 am
    Peak Hypergamy will pop when the Oculus Rift hits mass market.

    Women are checkmating themselves and they aren’t even aware of it.

  46. What might slow it down is greater betas becoming redpilled. As noted above, the Heartiste feature can be quite painful. No guy wants to spend 8-10 years of his life building a career or a business to take sloppy seconds from a DJ. And he’d especially hate to wear the horns of a cuckold, if the writers from antiquity are to be believed. It might even be happening.

    I wouldn’t call it a strike, yet, but I’m seeing the same story online and in my old circle (grew up in a Maryland suburb… Everyone I knew has a degree, typically in STEM, and everyone wanted to get the hell out of MD, so we’re not talking fedgov losers.) Guy gets with girl at epiphany time, they get engaged, even married, the life she’s always expected, he finds out her past, dumps her instantly. And I won’t get into it here, but with no kids, she’s often worse off than before, he’s welcome at all the wine parties. YMMV.

    The noise of open Hypergamy may not have peaked yet. Trainwreck, directed by Apatow, had a pudgy Amy Schumer, substance abuse problems and a three-figure notch count, landing a celebrity doctor who’d been celibate for five years. Hypergamy wasn’t the reason, it was all her dad’s fault for failing to keep his commitment to her mom, and the implausibility wasn’t just laughed out of theaters (somehow, Lebron James and other NBA stars are in this movie and they make him realize she’s the best thing that ever happened to her… This is from Wikipedia), but I doubt they’ll keep green lighting crap like this.

    Laws are even changing for the guys at the top of the food chain. New one proposed today will force universities to call the cops if a student reports a sexual assault. Kangaroo courts won’t disappear for a little while, but, err, Jackie, where are the scars from the glass table? You know the penalties for filing a fake report, don’t you?

  47. There’s little to be done, there’s no stemming the tide. It’s either accelerate the process and let it all burn so there can be a reset by 2040’s or Ride the Tiger.

    I was discussing with a redpilled man in his 50’s and we came to the same conclusion. 90% of men will be washed away by the storm. As you said in a previous post, save those we can, leave those we can’t.

    Shiva was mostly right when he said: “Even if you keep following TRM protecting your own house, all your neighbours houses will be on fire.”

    That’s why it’s more important than ever to save our “neighbours”.
    The surviving 10% will become each others neighbours, only then can we rebuild society.

  48. “Peak Hypergamy, coming soon:
    http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/251431-ashley-madison-leak-appears-real-includes-thousands-of-government-emails

    HAHAHAHAHAHahahaha…er, maybe not so ha ha, thinking a bit more on it. Much like the Chinese hacker situation, this potentially is a huge extortion/exploitation risk. What the person in government to do what you want them to do, get some info on them and threaten to leak it. Maybe these government “ladies” and gents aren’t very important, maybe they are, but there’s a lot more than “peak hypergamy” to watch for here.

    As most of us with all our info currently sitting on Chinese servers know, the most immediate danger from the government collecting data on us isn’t that they will use it against us…it is from the damage it will do when they inevitably lose control of it.
    Guess those Ashley Madison folks walked into the danger willingly. They’re idjiots, surely, but…I hope they aren’t idjiots with any power over the rest of us.

  49. I should have bolded the word immediate for emphasis above. It’s not that the people in government would never use our info for nefarious purposes, but the risk of that is less immediate.

  50. “Women will never rein themselves in…in recorded history they never have, societal pressures such as culture, war , famine or lack of men forces them to.”

    http://www.meforum.org/2646/worldwide-trends-in-honor-killings

    I keep wanting to bring this up, because people keep commenting that the feminine imperative is a mighty and unstoppable force, and we are all prostrate before it. I want to say carefully at the beginning that I don’t want to be seen as endorsing violence of any sort. But this is about understanding how culture and society works. I don’t endorse things like honor killings in any circumstances. But they do reveal a completely different worldview about how these things are supposed to work. And I can relate anecdotally that for every outrageous extreme, there is a much more extensive system of subtle coercion and pressure to behave in specific ways. These were all normal in virtually every society, up until recently in the West. Also worth noting that men get plenty of it too, though not as badly as women.

    “worldwide, 58 percent of the victims were murdered for being “too Western” and/or for resisting or disobeying cultural and religious expectations (see Table 1). The accusation of being “too Western” was the exact language used by the perpetrator or perpetrators. Being “too Western” meant being seen as too independent, not subservient enough, refusing to wear varieties of Islamic clothing (including forms of the veil), wanting an advanced education and a career, having non-Muslim (or non-Sikh or non-Hindu) friends or boyfriends . . .”

    In a way this shows that you are caught between two unattractive extremes. Long, slow social decay, or doing the things that would uphold social mores . . . by force. Of course the latter is not even an option in the West.

  51. I already shared this song on a previous post, but as far as Peak Hypergamy goes, this says it all. This is my take on the whole thing:

    A human leech, foul you crawl into my field of vision
    An empty speech breaking the skin of concentration
    Jesus Christ, you make me sick
    Bloated and corpulent from disregard, what you discard
    Your presence is leaving a scar

    Are you ready for the night?
    Put you out like the setting sun
    Four more words and then I’m done
    How the fuck did you think this would end?

    A filthy prick, foul parasitic imposition
    A dirty trick, a seasonal war of attrition
    So thoughtless, you’re such a pig
    Loaded and indolent, and you assume what you consume
    Is other’s business to reap and remove

    Are you ready for the night?
    Put you out like the setting sun
    Four more words and then I’m done
    A violent need to speak the truth
    Tired of bone and long of tooth
    Let’s be clear – you’re not welcome here again
    How the fuck did you think this would end?

    This is where it ends

    The swollen fingers of the modern age
    The human condition in a gross display
    Are covered in the grease of indulgence
    Anemic and weak with intemperance
    Clutching at the latest distraction
    Breeding a most savage reaction

    Are you ready for the night?
    Put you out like the setting sun
    Four more words and then I’m done
    (Get. The. Fuck. Out)
    A violent need to speak the truth
    Tired of bone and long of tooth
    Let’s be clear – you’re not wanted here, my friend

    How the fuck did you think this would end?
    How the fuck did you think this would end?
    How the fuck did you think this would end?

  52. No we haven’t seen peak hypergamy, but we have seen peak marriage.
    Just like only the top 20% of men are visible to women, in future given that the juice will have to be worth the squeeze only the top 20% of females will be considered for marriage, the rest will have a future of pump and dumps, short flings, cats and dildos.
    The only thing that will stop hypergamy will be financial/ societal collapse.

  53. Attractive Women and Betas are very happy With the approval of women’s Viagra ! .
    For the first time in history, can science alter women’s ovulation/AF,BB SYSTEM?
    I mean, if a woman is married to an unattractive man , all she has to do is to take the pill AFTER AF ovulation.
    Ps1
    How about creating a pill that kills women’s libido during AF ovulation ?.

  54. On the weekend I was discussing Billy Bob Thornton with my oldest daughter. She felt that BBT was the love of Angelina Jolie’s life, and the relationship with Brad Pitt lacks something. I replied that BBT was the boyfriend and Brad the dad, and she agreed.

    In our terms, BBT made Jolie an alpha widow, and Brad is the BB cuck raising children who are not his, and some who are supposed to be his. Women don’t understand why Brad, an alpha in most movies, accepts being a BB and pussy whipped.

  55. As BBs become more aware of the dynamic and delay marrying it might be the case that women will simply chuck in the towel of false pretences and solely pursue AFs.

    I know a lot of frustrated women currently looking for BBs and one of the significant prerequisites is money. As the comparative earning power between sexes narrows the requisite amount of income necessary to facilitate BBs has become inordinately high.

    The very value that defines BBs, higher comparative earning capacity, is becoming a diminishing pool. At the lower end of the socio economic spectrum it virtually doesn’t exist while at the higher end they are matching assortatively, which leaves a solid chunk in the middle without the BBs cushioning.

    It seems like the FI is hell bent on creating a new dynamic to fill in the gap, the genuine cuck. Look to the FI to try to normalise the cuck in the near future.

    This is where I see it going, too.

    The crunch on available BBs for a significant money boost is what we’ve already seen in the lower class, and it’s resulted in the total cratering of marriage in that class, and its replacement with Baby Mama Culture en masse. That phenomenon will continue to creep up into the lower middle and middle middle (it’s already there, but to a lesser degree than in the working class), with BB basically drying up and being replaced by a string of AF BabyDaddies.

    Above that, in the upper middle and above, it will be interesting to see what happens. Right now there are still enough true BBs for the women there to find sufficiently BB assortative men as husbands (something which is also putting pressure on the middle and lower middle because these guys are also not available to be BBs to those women because they’re mostly pairing up with other UMC women — inter-class marriage has more or less totally cratered and disappeared with the rise of high earning UMC women). I am skeptical as to whether this will continue, because I think the flow of BBs here is already shrinking due to the skewed matriculation rates at universities (something which is a key to being a member of the UMC).

    If the flow of true BBs in the upper middle and above does start to dry up a bit, I think that women may flip to a kind of cuck scenario (it won’t be called that, of course), where they marry men with less bucks in the beta bucks equation, with the socially supported expectation of non-monogamy and continued access to AF. In theory it will be bilaterally open, but the BB of course has much less opportunity. It solves the issue for at least some women, I think, if true BBs in the upper middle and above become more scarce.

    In addition to the above I think there are several other signs pointing in this direction. One is the rise of open hypergamy, and its social acceptance — which is nothing less than the social acceptance of the fact that it is OK for women to use certain men for emotional comfort and stability, and others for sexual pleasure and satisfaction. There’s a core of cuck built right into that. Another sign is the rise of gay marriage, with its norms of non-monogamy or various degrees of “monogamish” arrangements — this will place pressure on straight marriage to adopt these norms, and this will be beneficial for UMC women if the number of true high bucks BBs dwindles. Another sign is the coming support (yes, it’s coming) for polygamy being legalized — this will arise from the relaxation of the norms of monogamy for straight marriage, and it will be kind of a no-brainer once that happens. Acceptance of that, and mainstreaming of non-marital polyamory, coupled with the rise of non-monogamy in marriages, when taken together with open hypergamy, all really point towards the normalization of de facto cuckold marriage, where, in theory, it is bilaterally open, but, in practice, the man has much less sexual opportunity, if any, than the woman does, and so it’s basically a cuck situation. I think that the rise of cuck porn is somewhat related to these broader trends as well, and may continue to grow as the mainstream culture grows in this direction, but I don’t think it’s anything close to a driver here — there are other cultural factors that have already happened or one can easily see are on the verge of happening that will combine to normalize the cuck marriage, and delegitimize men who continue to insist on “out-dated, controlling monongamy which is based on male insecurity and weakness”.

    It may not turn out exactly as I write above, but I’m pretty confident that this is the general direction things are going from here.

  56. Rollo
    “@Lucien, now compare and contrast the very marginal incidences of “honor killings” with the rate of suicides in men world wide.”

    Well,
    I am afraid there will be no present or future cultural, societal or governmental laws (maybe scientific) to control Hypergamy/women’s ovulation .
    It is up to men to adopt and learn how to navigate this newly, scientifically proven reality .
    It is a very very simple experiment for men to test .

  57. I think the true peak of hypergamy is coming in the form of the “draft” criminal code revisions being proposed by some unusually SJW-oriented uniform law drafters at the American Law Institute. These proposed laws would class as misdemeanors all “unwanted” physical contact – which could range from extremes like tackling or kicking or hitting, to first-date unsolicited hand-holding or a smooch on the cheek. The ALM drafters make no bones that they are trying, in their own special way, to crminalize conduct not conforming to “yes means yes” and “enthusiastic consent” standards. When confronted about these chilling absurd results the authors insist those will never happen, that common sense will prevail, that no one (i.e. a disapproving parent?) would be silly enough to file charges because someone grabbed a hand without explicit verbal permission. Yet they so far have not toned down the draft language. The admitted purpose is to “protect” all persons (i.e., girls) and criminalize all “unwanted”, that is, not pre-cleared, physical contact as a punishable assault, and if that includes an arm around the waist, so be it.

    Fortunately, many professors and scholars have pushed back on these proposed laws very very hard. They point out, correctly, that no one has asked for such laws to be proposed; there is no outcry over a “criminal epidemic” of snuggles. Still it will be very surprising if in the next year or so these are published and seriously proposed – they will provide comedians with material for months. It will be interesting to see if “sensitive” legislatures like CA and NY try to debate and pass these as they did Yes Means Yes for their college campuses.

    The ALI frequently suggests changes to “uniform” laws like the UCC which, though meant to be adopted by individual statres as needed, all 50 states are encouraged to adopt for the sake of uniformity among the states, though often local variations are added. Eventually I think these proposed laws, if they are formally proposed, mostly will be laughed off the floor. But pay attention to whoever comes out in favor of such proposals.

  58. “If the flow of true BBs in the upper middle and above does start to dry up a bit, I think that women may flip to a kind of cuck scenario (it won’t be called that, of course), where they marry men with less bucks in the beta bucks equation, with the socially supported expectation of non-monogamy and continued access to AF. In theory it will be bilaterally open, but the BB of course has much less opportunity. It solves the issue for at least some women, I think, if true BBs in the upper middle and above become more scarce.”

    You’re already seeing a massive push for this. There’s tons of discussion post-gay “marriage” about open marriage and open polygamy, which are both thinly veiled versions of open cuckoldry. For the upper class gay marriage was itself a declaration of acceptance that marriage is basically meaningless as a concept.

  59. Yes means Yes is already law in many places . . . how much more f*cked can we possibly get? I am glad you brought up the misdemeanor sexual misconduct idea; without giving away too much I have also been privy to some discussions about that. Yes, law professors have actually pushed back very hard, including women. That was one of the signs for me that there is still some sense out there. In fact a lot of the older generation don’t even fully realize what’s going on.

  60. “only then can we rebuild society.”

    red pill so often devolves to doom and gloom. it doesn’t have to. in a lot of ways things are better than they have ever been.

    body: i eat local produce from the farmers market from may to october. i walk into the grocery store and the produce options are more consistent and of higher quality than ever before. I get high quality dha from lab grown algae. I have access to the best workout science in history to reduce my gym time and boost my results.

    barring injury or genetic problems, a man has total control of the way his body looks and performs within the boundaries of his genes. there are no excuses.

    mind: the webz. a man can educate and better himself, on his own terms, for his entire life. the only thing required is the will to do so.

    soul: there have never been more outlets for male creativity. there are so many cool things to do with our time it gets hard to narrow them down to a manageable level.

    so what if hypergamy is out in the open. so what if women proclaim the devotion to af/bb from the rooftops. their professed beliefs have no effect on the core truth that hasn’t changed since woman became woman;

    they want to be dominated.

    “These men will learn that a women’s attraction demands certain things: Be the leader, stay in control, DHV, look sharp, don’t show your emotional cracks, BHtB (Bring Home the Bacon)”

    nope. puas have shown us the opposite.

  61. As BBs become more aware of the dynamic and delay marrying it might be the case that women will simply chuck in the towel of false pretences and solely pursue AFs.

    Man I thought the “Exes and Ohhs” video link on this post was the icing on the cake, apparently no one’s clicked thru on it yet.

    Sheesh!

  62. “they want to be dominated.”

    OK

    But it seems they say that in one sentence then proceed to be totally resist to most efforts to dominate. I realize that a select few men never have to worry about that.

    I, being lazy, don’t want the fight, especially because I can’t use my hands (legal and social norms frown on a good solid slap). I really can’t be bothered to endure the verbal/psychological resistance when I am forbidden to resort to the physical.

  63. Another sign is the rise of gay marriage, with its norms of non-monogamy or various degrees of “monogamish” arrangements —

    I don’t really understand the obsession with gay men in the manosphere, but I agree that open marriages and polygamy will be the goals of open hypergamy. It’s already starting actually.

    Ever heard of Nicole Daedone and OneTaste? Orgasmic Meditation? They promote non-monogamy as the ideal. She was married to some BB silicon valley entrepreneur that she openly cuckolded and broadcast it all over the internet. Then after the divorce she gathered a cougar harem of men….

    Personally I think she’s begging for a for a lecture and a good spanking.

  64. A lot of commenters here seem to follow a line of thought “how can we get women back to building proper families etc.”. Please note this is the worst frame to tackle the issue. Women are machiavellian creatures, it may be even more important to understand than Hypergamy. If you want something from a women, she can dictate the terms and will use that power for a lot of stupid shit. If, on the other hand, she needs you to have a family and children (which they all want at some point), you dictate the terms. Female machiavellism is very deeply rooted, below their consciousness to keep it covered. But this comes with the weakness of some stupidity in this. If you bluff well, they will not notice.

    Catching the valuable (=hard to get) sperm and making babies and a family off it is pretty much the only purpose of females. That’s what they are made for. If men let them flip the script and have men hunt for building families, of course men lose. Don’t let them flip the script.

    Of course the legal framework (as it seems especially in the US) makes such a bluff quite risky for men still. But getting the legal framework to something less risky and more fair is actually a realistic policy goal – unlike going to Islamic tools vs. Hypergamy.

  65. Man I thought the “Exes and Ohhs” video link on this post was the icing on the cake, apparently no one’s clicked thru on it yet.

    I watched it… I wish it could be unseen. I’ve never been so repulsed by a woman in my life.

  66. Stingray
    I wonder . . . will some women try to rein this in themselves?

    Heh. Already answered:

    …Hypergamy really is akin to a Manchurian Candidate type situation. The woman is the programmed assasin, the target is some unfortunate dude is unaware of how much damage she’s capable of, and when the rifle fires and the smoke clears…..”oh, totally not my fault. The Sniper Rifle just went off.”

    Even women married for over a decade are still hypergamous, and if some series of life events like births, deaths, job changes etc. leads her to view that Till Death Do Us Part man as having Displayed Lower Value, she’ll start taking chunks out of his hide. And she won’t be able to explain why, plus she’ll for sure play the “I don’t remember that!” game. Except it might not be a game, people can and do suppress memories.

    So, Stingray, your question assumes a degree of self awareness that few women have any time, and no woman has all the time.

    AWALT, in other words.

  67. “they want to be dominated.”

    Badpainter:

    But it seems they say that in one sentence then proceed to be totally resist to most efforts to dominate

    They want to be dominated by a man they are attracted to.

  68. Again, why are people bothered with stuff like polygamy? Do you fear you’ll be left with no women because of other men that marry away the good women?
    Do we want to save individuals here, or do we try to improve the world?

  69. AWALT, in other words.

    Yes, though I should have been more clear. I don’t mean that more and more women will rein in their own hypergamy. I mean that the attractive woman who can no longer find a man to marry her might turn on the Open Hypergamy bandwagon (turn against Team Woman) because the secret coming out so blatantly will hurt her chances of finding a alpha male to commit to her. She will lose that status of being able to find a man with options that has chosen just her. That is a powerful status marker that women will not give up easily.

    Basically, I’m wondering if that loss of status and competitive advantage will have attractive women turning on open hypergamy. It’s not something I’m sure about, but it seems quite plausible.

  70. @Rollo

    “Man I thought the “Exes and Ohhs” video link on this post was the icing on the cake, apparently no one’s clicked thru on it yet.”

    Somehow, I’m not finding that link. Can you direct me to where it is or repost it in this comment thread again?

  71. Open Marriage is a euphemism of the FI meaning “We’ve agreed that I can cuckold my husband.”

    I’m curious as to how many husbands are the initiators of an open marriage. Considering that a woman would statistically have substantially more opportunity to engage in extramarital sex, and a man would not only need to maintain his burden of performance with his wife, but also any woman he might engage with outside the marriage it strikes me that women are the primary initiators and arbiters of an open marriage arrangement.

  72. “they want to be dominated.”

    Badpainter:

    “But it seems they say that in one sentence then proceed to be totally resist to most efforts to dominate. I realize that a select few men never have to worry about that.”

    I think “playing” dominant is bad game. They really want a truly dominant man and only playing it will probably remind them you aren’t really. If they ask for it, I think it’s even some kind of shit test. Don’t jump when asked for it. And don’t put yourself into a frame where you make yourself believe you’d have to jump.

    The foundation of all dominance is Rollo’s cardinal rule of relationships: He has the power who needs the other less. So all the dominance you really need is the ability and willingness to throw her out or replace her the moment she becomes unpleasant. If you got that, she has to perform for you. You can actually be lazy and your laziness will be domination.

  73. lh – “You can actually be lazy and your laziness will be domination.”

    I think in a sense this is true. Being forced to fight that fight has always resulted in my walking away. There’s nothing worth fighting for but the sake of the fight which I don’t enjoy. So my most common response to shit tests of that nature is to explain the several points of exit and invite them to either use one or shut up, stop wasting my time and harshing my mellow. This makes me an “asshole”, which I can’t deny because at that point I simply don’t care.

    I used to bothered by the outcomes of these situations, as if I had done something wrong. I now realize the problem isn’t me, it’s that they weren’t worthy of my awesomeness, and my awesomeness relies on a stable state of mellow, which such testing compromises. I refused to be dragged down to their level of constant fear, anxiety, and eternal wanting.

    If that sounds like rationalization (and I think does) it’s OK because I am totally cool with it, and that is all that really matters.

  74. Rollo Tomassi
    August 19th, 2015 at 4:57 pm

    “I’m curious as to how many husbands are the initiators of an open marriage. Considering that a woman would statistically have substantially more opportunity to engage in extramarital sex, and a man would not only need to maintain his burden of performance with his wife, but also any woman he might engage with outside the marriage it strikes me that women are the primary initiators and arbiters of an open marriage arrangement.”

    One of my best friends did initiate an open LTR with his now wife (!) when both where in their early twenties. He didn’t get the success he wanted and of course she fucked pretty much any man she could get in her social circle and she was cute enough to get some. At one point she gave me the best handjob I ever had while he and her sister where in the same bed. Anyway, the story is actually challenging some RP believes, because she married him 10 years later and now has 2 children from him. He is the housekeeper while she is earning the money. After they married they went back to monogamy and she is hardly flirting with other men anymore. As far as I know he never slept with another women. True story.

    Of course my friend did some things right: He has a lot of strength of character, ability to lead and organize. He does a lot of fancy craftsman stuff around the house. He has the nice rooms for him and his hobbies in the house she pays for. And: he always was very strict he wouldn’t take on the responsibility as breadwinner for a family and she truly had to blackmail him to marriage and children by means of a sex-strike.

  75. Methinks this is the video link spoken of by Mr. T:

    OK it’s the you go grrl version of “Under My Thumb.” With more gay models than a Blur Boy Magazine reunion. Isn’t that special.

  76. Interestingly back in those days ca. 2000 it where the other females, girlfriends of the men around, who stopped her with a lot of hostility. They didn’t like her going for their boyfriends and she decided she didn’t want social exclusion. Nowadays with Tinder it could be different.
    But in this case it worked out for my friend letting her ride the carousel until she had enough and wanted children. And at that point she wanted something from him he made very hard to get. Of course she values that commitment very highly.

  77. “Ex’s & Oh’s”: Funny how they want to be the alpha jerkboy. And terrible, it’s so fucking unattractive. Now is this Penisneid or trying to tell the men what to do?

  78. Totally ridiculous, Tomassi. You have managed to build a cultian following based on nothing more then false paradigms, bad science, and endless sexual rhetoric, and that is somewhat amusing.

  79. “lh, my thinking is that The Wild Oats project is a far more common situation”

    Yes, I think so too. But the reason is the men let those women because they value the marriage higher – which gives her the option to capitalize that value given by the man against him. Men in such situations have little options. Being jealous is weakness, it doesn’t help. You can either accept it or replace her.
    Being ready to replace her (soft dread, spinning plates) should be enough to keep her in check though. Men not doing that and letting themselves drive into such a situation is the problem. You won’t have it I guess.

  80. insanitybytes22: Is a paradigm/ideology something that can be false?

    Rollo consistently provides theory and I don’t see anybody running against SJW rhetoric in an intelligent way. We’ll see which notions that are cooked up stand the test of time.

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