Commenter Divided Line came on with such a strong take on Our Sisters’ Keeper I had to riff on it:
Hypergamy is a given and it’s not going anywhere. But even if women’s sexuality is biologically rooted, their rationalizations for it aren’t possible without a compliant culture. So long as women are the damsels, the victims who are put upon by the cruel and all powerful patriarchy, so long as men are perceived to be powerful and free in a way that they clearly are not nor have ever been, open hypergamy is possible. After all, any guy who points it out or complains about it is branded an embittered loser, a misogynist, a creep, and so on, but I wonder to what degree this will change as red pill awareness spreads and penetrates the mainstream. I mean, how long do we think that men will go on smiling and nodding when it’s increasingly the case that more and more of us can see what bullshit all of this is?
What it makes me think of is Alana Massey’s Dickonomics article.
If you haven’t already read it, she goes on and on about how male attention is abundant and cheap, proving that women are well aware of what men who bother with online dating realized from the start. She recognizes the extreme degree of power this gives her before hamstering it away with this:
“Some will read my gleeful rejections on the many faces I encounter on Tinder as evidence of a disturbing uptick in malevolent, anti-male sentiments among single straight women. It is not. It is evidence of us arriving nearer to gender equilibrium where men can no longer happily judge the clear and abundant photos and carefully crafted profiles of women but become incensed when they take the opportunity to do the same.”
How many times have you seen this? All venality, cruelty, selfishness, indifference, etc is justified, of course, because men have it so good, women have it so bad, blah blah etc. So she can write something like this and the sisterhood will nod their heads and no doubt be able to ignore doubt or second thoughts in regards to their atrocious, destructive, and cruel treatment of the opposite sex. Women, like people who rationalize generally, tend to think in bogus bumper sticker one liners because they provide excuses not to think for themselves. And men, after all, just saunter about in the patriarchal torture dungeon of a society free and powerful, and pluck women from the trees before discarding them like jizz towels, so naturally, why should she consider their complexity as human beings or ever recognize what a rotten, horrible human being she is? They’re free to retaliate against men for women’s imaginary oppression.
But how long will they be able to keep employing these rationalizations and getting away with it if the public dialog changes? And it has already begun to change. I’ve watched it happen over the last year. You see more and more disclaimers in articles which appeal to the you-go-girl crowd. It really does seem as if there is a growing awareness that they are full of shit, or at the very least, that maybe there are moral complexities and obligations that come with female social power, to the degree that they are even willing to recognize that power.
Hypergamy isn’t going anywhere, but since men increasingly are comparing notes now and voicing their criticism of women’s bullshit (at least online), maybe it really isn’t the case that women are going to be able to continue this bullshit with public sanction. Is this wishful thinking?
I’ve made the case in several other blog comment and forum threads, but it’s getting almost too easy to point out women’s overt embrace of Open Hypergamy. There was a time – only 4 short years ago – that I would be run up the flagpole for publishing my observations on the ins and outs of women’s sexual strategy. Women in the blogosphere hated the fact that I was exposing their Game. They didn’t like the idea that I was informing men about the plan women had for them or the part they played, and by informing them it represented a fundamental threat to the long term success (and essentially their long term security) of that plan.
If you’re feeling nostalgic you can skim through the comments of posts like Wait For It? or The Threat:
Nothing is more threatening yet simultaneously attractive to a woman than a man who is aware of his own value to women.
[…]
Race to Awareness
Because of women’s relatively short window of peak sexual viability it is imperative that men be as unaware of their slower, but progressively increasing SMV for as long as possible in order for them to achieve the prime directive of female hypergamy; realize the best genetic options and the best provisioning options she has the capacity to attract in that peak window. If Men become aware of their SMV before a woman can consolidate on her options with monogamous commitment her sexual strategy is defeated.
The mistake (and the binary retort) is to think this need for contrivances was concocted in whole as some grand sisterhood conspiracy. This just proves an ignorance of social constructs. For a social contrivance to be such, it necessitates being repeated by society WITHOUT a formal conception – meaning we learn the contrivance from seeing it, internalizing it and repeating it ourselves without forethought. The best social contrivances are inconspicuous and rarely questioned because they’ve been learned without having been formally taught. This is why I think encouraging men NOT to bother trying to understand women is in itself a social convention. Don’t look at that man behind the curtain, just accept it for what it is, enjoy the show, you’re better off that way, the Mighty Oz has spoken.
This is the threat that Game represents to the feminine imperative. Widely shared, objective assessments of Men’s SMV and how it develops is the antithesis of the female sexual strategy. Women’s greatest fear is that they could become the ‘selected’ instead of the ‘selectors’.
Bear in mind I wrote this years before I published Preventive Medicine. This was also only a few years before I formally identified women’s embrace of openly, proudly, flaunting their sexual strategy. I can remember being soundly rebuked by women denying they adhered to anything so callous as an Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks schedule with regard to men.
There was a certain nervous undertone that accompanied their shaming that revealed how protective they were of keeping the plan as ambiguous and secretive as possible from men in general. For every acknowledgement of the biological influences of Ovulatory Shift behaviors by these women there was always an obligatory, “yes, but, people are people, we’re above all that, it’s what’s on the inside that counts, NAWALT” intended to offset the ugliness of it.
Now, the same women who adamantly denied what their functionally opportunistic concept of love represents; the same women who rejected the idea of an Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks sexual strategy openly and triumphantly boast about it. It’s become a source not only of agency, but a proud admission of perceived power on the part of women.
At some point the social impetus behind Open Hypergamy became so blatantly obvious they could no longer deny the truth of it. The Genie was out and it was more advantageous to not only to welcome it, but to brandish and profit from forcing men to accept it. Thus we have Open Hypergamy both subtly and triumphantly waved in our mainstream advertising, our pop-culture, our social media, our music and even the movies we take our kids to enjoy.
To see what is in front of one’s nose needs a constant struggle.
– George Orwell
I expect most of the worst aspects of Open Hypergamy (Overt Hypergamy if you prefer) are fairly obvious to my readers. Even the now the subtle influence in the media and advertising becomes not-so-subtle for men accustomed to seeing things with a Red Pill Lens. We can only shake our heads and hope that so blatant a confession of relishing power in Hypergamy on the part of unaware men will come to light for them.
Divided Line raises a very poignant observation – what’s next? What’s the natural progression?
Hypergamy isn’t going anywhere, but since men increasingly are comparing notes now and voicing their criticism of women’s bullshit (at least online), maybe it really isn’t the case that women are going to be able to continue this bullshit with public sanction. Is this wishful thinking?
I think there is a caveat we have to address here first. With Red Pill awareness it gets very easy to slide down the slippery slope and believe that ‘all women’ will have some equal capacity to enforce the worst of Open Hypergamy on men in general. Yes, in a westernizing context, women have an almost unilaterally state-backed influence on enforcing men’s de facto participation in Hypergamy by order of degree. However, it’s important to remember that men’s willing participation or coercion in it is still (as yet) limited by women’s capacity to attract and involve them.
Men want (and yes, need) sex and will find behavioral and psychological adaptations and workarounds to get it. That may be MGTOW, prostitution, porn or an as yet developed alternative of virtual sex. It may be Red Pill awareness and applied Game, it may be a self-aligning push to pander to the most extreme elements of the Alpha Fucks or Beta Bucks ends of Hypergamy, or it may be upping fame or a false social proof (via personality politicking on social media) that makes for men’s future adaptations.
Peak Hypergamy
I’m not a prognosticator about such things, but I can make logical estimates based on observations. One thing is for certain, and I discussed this with Niko in our talk, intersexual politicking and the condition of women will reach a ‘Peak Hypergamy’ state in the not too distant future. There will indeed come a point when even Blue Pill men will be unable to ignore so gross a power imbalance between the sexes.
There’s been some debate as to whether there’s some socially conscious ‘marriage strike’ in the manosphere for some time, and I think marriage statistics being at an all time low bear much of this out. I don’t think this is the result of some nascent MGTOW awakening, but rather a deductive, peripheral, general awareness men have of Open Hypergamy in our current social order at the moment.
Just as a last aside here, let me state that I am aware of the more militant, absolutists of MGTOW belaboring the idea that ‘the juice aint worth the squeeze’ and the dangers of even approaching a woman risk his being accused of sexual harassment, much less having recreational sex with her leaving a man open to post-sex regret-rape allegation. I get that. It’s part of the ascension toward a ‘Peak Hypergamy’ social state. My question is whether these men would find it worth their while to engage with women if their fears were removed in a post Peak State social order? Some may even live long enough to have to figure that out for themselves.
I think Divided Line is correct – there will come a state when Open Hypergamy’s power consolidation becomes too obvious and the social mechanics the Feminine Imperative has used to ensure that consolidation will be too much for women to maintain as a collective. Then what? What will women rationalize for themselves when they realize their monster has become too much?
I’ll reiterate it again; socially, it didn’t take long for women to transition from a secretive Hypergamy to an open display of it. The same women who called AF/BB the imaginings of misogynous men only 4 years ago are now proudly claiming it as truth (they knew all along) and a means to a power they’ve always had and should openly use.
The social, political and personal stress point of Peak Hypergamy is coming. It may take a bit longer, but there will come a point where even women will be forced to recognize the consequences of legislating their hubris.
@ scribblerg
It must be the apocalypse: I finally got laid tonight. I am no longer a virgin.
Not that that means much, as in sex is still as much of a need as ever, and I’m not off the hook yet. I have to stay sharp now. But now I know that I can do it.
Thought I was going to have premature ejaculation. Ended up being fine. The girl said I was great. We went at it for a long time. I did have a couple close moments of premature ejaculation, but I focused on kissing her and touching her and gave the old PC muscle a good squeeze and I was fine. I was amazed at how long I lasted — I thought I was going to be a two pump chump but I was pounding away and doing fine. The close calls were taken care of with some mental effort.
Most of which was focusing on how much fun I was having, and knowing that once I came it would be over at least for a while. I had no problems at all lasting while she was giving me blowjobs/jerking me off or on top of me and riding me.
Before she left she said she wasn’t sure if anything was going to happen, and she said that some of the things I did with her that led to sex were “ballsy.”
I did mention to her that I was a virgin and was really frustrated about that. So she knew. When she asked me how I wanted to lose my V card, in my head the “DING DING DING” went off. I don’t remember what I said. It was nothing impressive. But I knew at that moment I had to seal the deal.
We were watching something on Netflix and I told her to sit next to me on the couch. We were pressed up pretty close. From then it was a matter of making solid eye contact while laughing at jokes from the show — every time we made eye contact it was smiling. I also very slowly re-positioned myself so more of me was touching her.
e.g., my foot touching her foot after a while. Taking my hand from resting on my thigh to resting a little on her thigh, until it was completely on it. Putting my arm around her when I sensed that we’d built up enough to be able to do that. I just kept feeling it out, and picked up on the subtle cues she was giving me.
When she started grazing my thigh up and down with her hand, that was the green light. As soon as she started doing that, I started mirroring what she was doing by grazing her shoulder up and down lightly with my hand.
Before she left, I mentioned that, and she said she wasn’t even aware that she was doing it. But I picked up on it immediately and knew it was a huge IOI, basically as much of a green light as it gets, and I reciprocated interest simply by mirroring her kino towards me.
I started getting a hard on, and I thought of hiding it, but I didn’t. She started to reposition herself to be closer to me, and she started rubbing closer to my thighs.
The touching kept escalating and escalating until she got very close to my dick. Once she ran her hand along my dick I knew it was a done deal.
It reminded me of my first experience years ago. It’s just a slow, subtle buildup — pick up on IOI’s and capitalize on them.
I’m ALREADY thinking myself to death, lol.
I should take some time to realize how big this is for me. We had GREAT sex, she was SUPER into it, and she blew me again until I came before she left.
And sex aside, I had a great day with her. We had a lot of laughs and after we had sex we just laid down on the couch together and cuddled. As much as I fucking hate that word to death, lol. It was really nice.
This is the FIRST GIRL I’ve ever been with in my life that I’m actually physically attracted to, like big time — and she was extremely feminine too. I couldn’t believe it when she offered to go get me water, and she asked me a number of times what I wanted her to do in order to make me feel good.
If that’s the result of how I was behaving, then I did it. I fucking did it. I don’t want to let this go to my head though — I’m just happy for myself that hope is not lost.
Still got a tough road ahead. But at least the condoms I bought a year ago finally were good for something.
I’m still trying to process the fact that I actually, legitimately got laid. And it’s so much more than that. So everything I’ve done actually HASN’T been for nothing.
Off to bed. There you have it folks.
@ scribblerg
Thanks for the advice too. I may have had one success now but spinning plates is the name of the game. I still have a LONG way to go before I can think of myself as an actual Alpha. A long, long way.
But we’re making progress.
Pours out some bourbon for Softek.
Well done.
@ Rollo
Thanks, I’m still trying to process that this actually happened. I owe a lot to the guys here and of course all the writing you’ve done.
I know it’s not all said and done now but I’m going to go to bed for at least tonight with a mood of celebration. Thanks for everything so far, guys.
@Softek
Holy hell
Nice thing to rest on. Congratulation not the apocalypse and you only are gonna get that much more amazing.
http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/cheers_leonardo_dicaprio.gif
sadly that leaves insanitybytes as the only virgin left here
(assuming cocksucking, anal, and artificial insemination doesn’t count)
Happy birthday day Softek.
an advice to Softek.
With fucking, comes responsibility, I want you to fuck the sluts, fuck the whores, fuck the cougars, fuck the virgins, fuck the single mom’s, fuck the Milfs, fuck the feminists, fuck anything with two holes. And when it comes to settling, start all over again and get a Dog.
So, they just can’t help it.
Upon being caught out, they will cry out …the devil (hypergamy) made them do it.
Wow, great, Softek! Well done. And now forget she was the first as soon as possible. No women should ever know how much you had already and best is you don’t know either.
Being a man in this day and age is like walking across a tight-rope without a balance beam, no safety net and a cross wind with a massive drop below.
For women, there is a massive safety net and society has been conditioned to make their life easy. It needs to be addressed. To be honest it just annoys me.
Earlier I had said something about there being a positive side of marriage. I do think there is a certain appeal to in a real good alpha frame. King of your Castle, Minions, etc. I’m getting pretty good at it. She tells me that she’s “the luckiest girl in the world.” I don’t know if she realizes that she only says it after sex… lol. Yesterday she bought me a pillow with her allowance money because: “I shouldn’t have a nicer pillow than the head of the household.”
Anyway, I have set an ultimate goal of getting her to bring other women over to fuck while making her think that it was her idea….
Anyone been able to pull this off successfully in a marriage?
Congratulations Softek.
Your mindset as judged by your comments has certainly brightened up over the last couple weeks. A strong contrast to six months ago when we didn’t think you were going to make it through triage. (And I think a Grand Thank You! is due to ScribblerG for helping you off-line this past year.)
Please keep to your red pill/game script.
Do yourself a favor (and us readers for gods sake). Go back and read and follow Roissy’s Sixteen Commandments in regards to this plate you got up and spinning.
And remember Law #4 of the 48 Laws of Power:
Always Say Less than Necessary
When you are trying to impress people with words, the more you say, the more common you appear, and the less in control. Even if you are saying something banal, it will seem original if you make it vague, open-ended, and sphinxlike. Powerful people impress and intimidate by saying less. The more you say, the more likely you are to say something foolish.
Furthermore, feeling as this seems like it is a graduation from your extended adolescence and into manhood, just remember this:
http://www.quickmeme.com/img/db/db67be287bdfbf2a8c0badc2a566622e5534709e4c3493bfdd0d5ded41b5f6c3.jpg
Softek,
Outstanding!
I’m just waiting for insanitybytes to come ridicule and shame Softek as an evil misogynist….
Other than that, congrats buddy.
“Tomassi, but my imperative is actually happy, contented men
“Happy, contented” steers more likely. In the usual female solipsistic fashion, IB / gg / yttik wants men to be “happy” like women are supposed to be happy, because her feminist hindbrain refuses to accept that men are not defective women.
Now run along, girl, the men are talking.
Softek – good, well done, don’t overthink and watch out for oneitis.
“I’m just waiting for insanitybytes to come ridicule and shame Softek as an evil misogynist….”
I have a sixth sense that one of Insaneittybitty’s great joys in life is Schadenfreude.
Softek just gave her Gluckschmertz (…to take pain in someone else’s pleasure…) which he snatched from the jaws of her Schadenfreude.
Softek, work on your general approach to people. Be warm, fun, and engaging. With retail clerks, friends, men, women, dogs, etc. Make it part of your life. Options will happen.
@Rollo
Alpha is as Alpha does:
http://www.newser.com/story/211659/this-woman-left-her-family-to-marry-man-on-death-row.html?utm_source=part&utm_medium=earthlink&utm_campaign=rss_topnews
I watched this in real life. Neighbor down the road, dude is Captain Fuckin’ America on steroids. Red white and blue all the way through, owns his own construction business, can fix anything and everything that is made of wood and metal, is in fantastic shape and women say out loud what a great looking guy he is, he had a *knockout* wife and had four kids by her. Even after the kids she stayed in amazing shape and you’d not know (with clothes on) that she’d ever birthed one child. Ok, good for him. The problem was that he was all about the Old Books, he was a prodiver out the wazoo and while handsome and charming, was also a great father and was kind to her in day to day passing, meaning that eventually he went from (I’m guessing) alpha hot dude into Beta Provider.
She gets on the ol’ PC, peruses a website touting “be a pen pal to convicts” and 8 months or so later leaves Captain America *and her kids* to shack up with a man who is not due to be let out of prison for at least another decade. She literally torpedoed her marriage AND her relationship with her four young (at the time) children, for some scumbag convict she met on the internet and *had not yet been intimate with*.
Captain America was devastated. He went into a “wft?!?” funk, literally had no idea what had hit him, he was broadsided entirely. Eventually he moved, to where I do not know, and I’m fairly certain his business no longer exists, or at least no longer answers on its original number or email. At least he got the kids, assuming she didn’t appear later and swipe them from him with the help of Uncle Sugar Daddy and his guns.
@Softek, at this point it’s important that you bear in mind that you will always learn more from your failures than you will from your successes.
The human mind is wired to imprint negative, painful experiences more readily than pleasant ones. It’s the hot stove principle – the memory of that pain and the introspection you had after you burned your hand served to keep you alive when something similar occurred in your environment.
You’ll contemplate and mentally dissect the reason why you had that failure or painful experience far more intently than when you enjoy the pleasures of success. The reward is all that matters in that moment, so most people rarely feel a need to analyze what contributed to that achieved goal or pleasurable experience.
In hindsight we’ll attribute it to persistence or something that sounds right and positive in order to build our self-impressions. So take the time now to contemplate all of the steps and mindset and behaviors that led up to you getting laid.
Also, don’t call it ‘losing’ your virginity. You didn’t lose anything:
http://therationalmale.com/2013/06/26/you-need-sex/
Technically not shack up, I meant more along the lines of “live in an apartment and hope to get visitation with him”. As far as I understood it anyway.
@Softek: Here, here!
http://www.troll.me/images/tommy-pickles/oooooo-shit-muthafucka-god-damn-thumb.jpg
@ Rollo
I tried to capture how I did it in my comment. Will write more if I remember.
She came over and made a comment that we were ‘just friends,’ but it was a shit test. She gave me a massage, and then I gave her one, and she said “A lot of guys expect to get laid after stuff like this, but this isn’t like that. I trust you, I don’t ever let anyone else do this.”
I got very discouraged, and thought that was it, but deep down I knew it was a shit test. I knew she was interested in me because we’d sexually escalated a bit over text.
The big thing was having the confidence to see IOI’s for what they were. Then the shit tests were easier to ignore — I KNEW she was interested. If a girl’s dodging eye contact with me, being kind of bitchy, not saying much, etc., I move on to greener pastures.
But other girls are very receptive, very responsive. And if I sexually escalate a bit and they respond, well…
…I had to teach myself to be confident that they were interested. Have the attitude, more or less, that I’ve already fucked them.
It was funny. I took that attitude with that girl. When she asked me about being a virgin, I took that as a green light.
Major thing: ANY TIME they say something remotely sexual, roll with it.
But don’t come off as creepy or desperate.
I was actually very honest with her. She said she was looking for something new, just new experiences to break up her routine. I said that’s what I was looking for too. But I kept it general, not creepy. Escalated by talking about some thoughts I had on sex and connection and how it was a basic need, asking her what her thoughts were, etc.
Then backed off a bit and just put a show on Netflix, told her to sit next to me on the couch. And then I started heavy with the kino and especially eye contact.
I remembered YaReally’s post about eye contact and the ‘bedroom eyes’ vs. creepy wide eyes. Keeping a light smile, having a good time, and making eye contact with her that you’d make after sex.
I noticed her slapping my thigh a couple times while she laughed if something really funny happened in the show.
I mirrored that. And the buildup was very slow with the kino and eye contact. As time went on she started opening up VERY SLOWLY, touching me a little more sexually, i.e. grazing her fingers along my arm.
When we were talking about sex in general, I kept it away from creepy and towards cool/relaxed. Talked about how I thought it was a basic need and I didn’t think it was a big deal, and people would be happier if they weren’t so uptight about it, or made it into some huge complicated thing. She agreed, we talked some more, and then things escalated from there further when I told her to come sit next to me on the couch.
She responded very well to me getting aggressive with her when we started going at it. My friend told me to NEVER make weird noises during sex, but also never to say nothing and just be silent, because that can come off like you’re not comfortable and the girl will think something is wrong.
I pinned her down at one point and started making out with her pretty forcefully while grabbing her ass hard and I started pounding her basically as hard as I could. Huge response from that. And of course I had a great time.
But the buildup was fraught with shit tests. She did say how she ‘trusted me,’ and that this was just a platonic ‘friend’ thing, she would never let someone else massage her, and it bothered her when guys thought massages meant sex was coming later, etc.
I handled it by basically completely ignoring it and changing the subject.
I didn’t know HOW to respond, and I didn’t see a point, because I was interested in her, so I just ignored it/kind of went along with it, but soon after that brought up sex and intimacy and pried a little for her thoughts about it.
I didn’t bring it up until we were next to each other though. I felt it out. She was up against me and had her hand on my leg. Major green light when a girl is initiating kino.
If I’d talked about the sex stuff outright, it could come off as creepy. But it started out with her giving me a massage, then me giving her one, her giving me the ‘friend’ talk, how she doesn’t do anything sexual with massages and didn’t want me to get the wrong idea.
And then I made sure we were sitting very close together, legs and arms touching. When I noticed her opening up a little more with kino and eye contact, I escalated very slowly.
Positioning my body very subtly, very progressively, to something more and more sexual. Just a little. Before things really started heating up, the final step was me having my whole hand resting on her thigh, with the other one grazing up and down her shoulder/back, while she had her hand on my leg.
Got a hard on and didn’t hide it. As she moved her hand to my thigh her elbow touched my dick, and then it really started rolling.
It wasn’t long before she moved over to get into a position to make out with me.
It’s weird. WAY before it happened, I knew it was going in that direction. Because I was being Game aware, picking up on IOI’s, and having more confidence in myself that it really was going to happen.
I kind of ‘knew’ it was in the bag, and escalating to the point where it manifested into reality was just a matter of mirroring IOI’s (she looks at me, I look back — she puts her hand on my leg, I put my hand on hers, she moves closer to me, I move closer to her)…..
…and she would mirror my IOI’s too, like when I told her to come sit next to me on the couch, I took a little risk by putting my arm around her (I was actually kind of a dork and asked her if it was okay if I put my arm around her, and she laughed and said yes, of course)…..
….I’m trying to remember as much as I can.
So this is my field report. If I can remember any more details I’ll mention them, but I think this should be okay.
I was paying attention like a hawk to everything that was going on and making mental notes.
This is reverse-engineering attraction and how this all works. So it didn’t ‘just happen’ — it was a result of me having a better idea of what I’m doing.
My goal now is to imprint this stuff in my memory and keep getting better at it. Just like my trade. Do it over and over again.
Millions of times at night I’ve thought of projects in my head like a CAD program. And it helped me with my trade. Visualizing, processing, mentally practicing and rehearsing, and building understanding.
@ Rollo
Revised Field Report:
She mentioned later she couldn’t believe it happened. She said she always felt some kind of attraction to me and knew I was awesome, but she thought that when she came over it was just going to be kind of a stalemate. She wasn’t expecting it.
Translation: she wanted to hook up with me, she was attracted to me, and she was in her hindbrain expecting/desiring me to Alpha up and make it happen.
And that’s what I did, and that’s why it worked so well. Re-capped report:
-Escalated with text beforehand when she wanted to come over. She mentioned wanting to give me a massage, and I said okay, but not to be surprised if I got a hard on, and that I was nervous about that. She thought that was funny and said “It’s okay, I like a challenge.” That was a major green light.
-Ignored shit tests post-massage. She mentioned how it wasn’t sexual, how we were just friends, and that she trusted me, and it creeped her out when guys expected her to have sex with them just because she gave them a massage. I basically completely ignored it, and asked if she wanted me to give her a massage, and she gave me some tips while I was doing it on how to improve.
-Threw me off a little when she told me to massage her ass. It’s a part of professional massage. I tried not to come off as a total dork but I did hesitate a little. Fortunately this girl was the kind of girl that was OK with me being a virgin and thought it was kind of cute. I got comfortable pretty quick though and was massaging her all over like it was no big deal, and was asking her questions about what kind of hand positions to use, knuckles vs. thumbs etc.
-She didn’t mention the ‘just friends’ thing again – that shit test was over, and if I’m not mistaken, I passed it simply by ignoring it, just saying something like “Yeah” with a disappointed look on my face, like “Oh, those men that think a massage means you want to marry them, pffft,” but said more with my facial expression than anything else. I think literally all I said was “yeah” with the expression, maybe a little head shake, and then that discussion was over, I changed it to talking about something else or giving her a massage (not sure which I did first)
-She asked me how I wanted to lose my V card. Another major green light. I didn’t insinuate that I wanted to have sex with her yet. It wasn’t warmed up enough yet. I know my friend said to NEVER come off as creepy.
So I just gave a general answer saying “I don’t know, I never really thought about it. I really want to have sex, and I don’t think it has to be some huge deal – I never thought of being a virgin as a huge deal. But I think I’d have to be comfortable with the girl. Like at least feel some kind of connection, like we were on the same page. I couldn’t just do it for the sake of doing it without feeling like I had at least something going on with the girl.”
And I made intermittent eye contact with her while I was saying that (paraphrasing here too, by the way), while we were sitting next to each other, arms and legs touching.
I didn’t imply that it was her I wanted to have sex with through my words. I was just talking generally about my desires, coming off as very laid back, and not directing anything sexual OVERTLY at her —
— but covertly, yes. Like when I mentioned about feeling a connection with the girl, and needing sex to be with a girl I could feel really comfortable with, after I said that I looked her in the eye.
She said something about how she got that, and she couldn’t get with a guy she didn’t feel really drawn to (Alpha, naturally, though that’s insider information as all of us here know).
She’s a really sweet girl, as sweet as girls can be anyway. No illusions here about hypergamy. But being genuinely attracted to her and finding her attractive helped a lot. My friend told me to only pursue girls I’m really interested in, and that going for girls you’re not into just isn’t worth it.
I really wanted it. But not desperately — I was just having a good time. I kept in mind what my friend said to NEVER come off as desperate, even if you haven’t gotten laid in 20 years. Calm, cool, relaxed, fun, low-key, low-pressure, but cute, and keeping the sexual escalation subtle and low pressure but while building tension at the same time.
Just like fishing. Let a little bit of the line off, let the fish play. Then reel it in a little more. Back off again, let it have some play, then reel it in a little more. You don’t just rip the thing out of the water, and the fish also aren’t going to jump onto the boat by themselves. You stay calm and cool, and have a good time while you slowly reel in the fish, give it some play while you ease off and relax, then reel it in a little more until you’ve got it.
And that’s what did it. It was low key. Very slow, very subtle sexual escalating. I NEVER said anything overt to her about having sex with her. I said some overt things about my thoughts on sex and relationships, but I was careful not to come off as desperate, and make a conversation out of it that was low-pressure, and sexually escalating, but not creepy or desperate.
I communicated my sexual desire for her through eye contact, facial expressions, and escalating kino, and mirroring her kino — any IOI I picked up on from her, I gave it right back to her. The verbal sexual escalation was mostly me just bringing up sex, and I waited for the “OK” to talk about sex by what she was saying.
I’ve been texting her for a while before this, and there was sexual escalation there too. She knew I was a virgin and I didn’t come off as desperate, but I made sure she knew I had a dick and it was implied through me being playful with her that I was into her. But not in a way that was creepy or high-pressure. All low-key, playful, just having fun, and not being clingy.
The grazing her fingers along me was the last thing that happened that I mirrored before sex.
I mirrored it right back by grazing along her, and it was only a matter of minutes from there that her hand moved to my outer then, then on top, then inner, then my dick, then undoing my belt and my zipper and taking my cock out.
The mood shifted drastically when I felt her grazing me with her fingers back and forth. I started getting that horny/nervous tension building up, like something was about to go down. Body started heating up, I started grazing her in response to mirror what she was doing.
Tension was building up, whatever was on the TV started fading into the background and before long we were really getting into it.
-Sitting next to each other with body contact
-Lots of relaxed eye contact, laid back, laughing
-Slowly escalating kino, e.g. she slapped my thigh while laughing, so I mirrored that and did it to her a couple times, and the touching/body contact progressed very slowly but very surely from there
I actually asked her if she saw my hard on. I was wearing relatively tight jeans and it was very obvious. She claimed she didn’t know until she touched it.
But by the time I started getting a hard on, and was nervous, and the touching was escalating — THAT is the feeling of when it’s about to happen.
I get the nervous/sexual tension thing now. That’s what it’s supposed to feel like. That’s how it works.
It’s also why she was messaging me so much saying it was so crazy, she couldn’t believe that happened, etc.
I asked her if she had a good time. Her response was:
“yes, it was refreshing and intense”
And there you have it. I have a long way to go but I hope with one of my first Field Reports here I can contribute something of some value to this community.
@Softek, I think if you pick the behaviors and physical cues apart you’ll find she was likely in her proliferative phase too.
@Softek
Glad you got your first notch. Call it that. Stop using the words “virgin” and “virginity.” Women who haven’t ever had sex are “virgins.” Men who haven’t ever had sex are just that: men who haven’t ever had sex. They’re not “virgins.” The use of the word virgin interchangeably for men and women is yet another example of equalism and the feminization of men.
“…I actually asked her if she saw my hard on.”
“…..I asked her if she had a good time.”
Softek, please realize what you are doing. Please fake it till you make it. Act like you have done this tens of times. Going forward, it makes no difference to her whether you haven’t had PIV sex in the past. Don’t ask those juvenile questions. You are better than that. Please use Law #4.
And Rollo is being taciturn here: “I think if you pick the behaviors and physical cues apart you’ll find she was likely in her proliferative phase too.
His bringing that to your attention is not only retrospective, but please, dude, take in what that means prospectively. How you can use this to game her in her proliferative phase vs. her luteal phase. 28 days is a very short trip in 14 day increments. If you don’t know what I’m referring to with incorporating menstrual phases into game practice, please ask.
@ SJF
I don’t know what you’re referring to. I’ve read the menstruation article Rollo wrote but I’m having a hard time processing all of this. If you want to give me some advice, I’m all ears.
Keep in mind that is she is on the pill, it blunts her ovulatory craving for dick so you need to calibrate.
5 to 7 days after the start of her period until 14 days and beyond she is going to be more down to fuck. After that she needs more nurturing (in an LTR moreso, much, much less so for your current circumstance). Frankly if I were you I would disappear during her luteal phase this month and pop back up in her proliferative phase.
In short if you can decipher the peak of her proliferative phase you are more likely to have her be receptive. (If humans didn’t evolve to have hidden ovulation she would be twerking her pussy in your face.)
If you are not on your game in her luteal phase you are not likely to score pussy.
Go back and read Your Friend Menstruation and find out (covertly) without asking stupid questions when she starts her period. Use that knowledge to yours and her advantage. Her advantage is she gets you and a good dicking when she needs and wants it the most.
For future reference and for those in long term relationships out there, the essay Beta Tells is good reading too.
http://therationalmale.com/2014/11/11/beta-tells/
I didn’t know HOW to respond, and I didn’t see a point, because I was interested in her, so I just ignored it/kind of went along with it,
Naturals do this, too. Kind of like you hear a broad saying, “Blah, blah, blah.” Nothing that is in line with your agenda so it gets ignored. If she gets boring (i.e., says “no” emphatically too often), you move on. Drop her and find something else to do.
With this broad you probably started as uncertain beta and hit enough alpha pings to get her to reassess your SMV. Doubt was your friend here.
Gratz on #1, btw.
@ Softek:
CONGRATS!!!
But i don’t want you to get oneitis now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
😉
Had a rough Saturday and Sunday. Mrs. Gamer was doing Dread-B behavior. That’s Cluster-B because of Dread. She doesn’t want to go out with me when I’m working on my book because she doesn’t want to see me dancing with other women. So she stays home, then whines about how she always has to stay home. Mrs. Gamer has some decent girlfriends with whom she can do things, so she just needs to schedule going out to do stuff with them on the weekends.
So, the problem is her high blood pressure. And her Dread-B behavior. How did I deal with it? I poured on comfort. Cuddling. Back rubs. Just lying down with my arm over her back as she cried. I agreed to give her a Saturday night every two weeks to take her out dancing. That leaves three nights for me to go out solo per fortnight. And I can probably get some stories for my book from going out with Mrs. Gamer. I’m also sharing a lesson with her a weeknight and taking her out on another weeknight, so she’s getting lots of attention.
Finally, she was still snippy, so I gave her the finger in passing in response to one of her hysterics as I walked out of the bedroom and closed the door. Then waited a few seconds and reopened the door. She gave me the finger and looked very angry. I smiled and said, “Silly girl,” then closed the door and went downstairs to my sleeping chair and went to sleep.
Mrs. Gamer awakened me, smiling. Guess what she wanted. Yep. Fun & games. She asked if I’d been sleeping (duh) and offered to let me continue. (teasing, but willing to forego sex if I was really tired). I told her, “Come here” and pulled her to me.
When I gave Mrs. Gamer the finger, it was disrespecting her Dread-B behavior and also instigating for sex. Mrs. Gamer read it correctly. I debriefed Mrs. Gamer after the bang. I told her that she had realized that her husband had been sweet to her and very reasonable and that she had been acting like a crazy bitch and that’s why she came downstairs for the bang. She replied that she would admit nothing as she laughed.
Drama is a spice. A little goes a long way. The weekend was a little too spicy for my taste.
You have to game women. Always. Married, LTRs, whatever, unless you are celibate and a hermit. Women have to be gamed in your workplace as well if you want them to support you at work. In business. In your social circle. At church. Etc.
“I trust you, I don’t ever let anyone else do this.”
Softek, when a woman says that she does trust you at that moment, and she’s done whatever it is before more than once. Her anti-slut defense is dialing back while her hamster revs up, and yes, it’s a signal for you to escalate.
Softek.
I advise you to move on, if I were you I’d find a reason to dump her.
She opened the door for you and she knows you owe her, that is why you should move on .
You will never be her Alpha.
Just move on as soon as possible.
Find another woman and don’t let her know she is your second fuck.
The best case: She initiates during her fertile period if you don’t. She gets cravings for your D.
Got one better than this. Mrs. Gamer is post-menopausal and initiates several times a month. No testosterone boost in her system. Must be the 18 inch…oh, wait, I had my hamstermagnifier on, never mind.
Consider what I have written to be a Master Class in Dread/Relationship Game.
I asked her if she had a good time.
I feel like a douche, but I have to say it. I would make this the first and last time you ask that question. Chicks hate it when you fish for validation.
I wouldn’t worry about it though, I did it for like 10 years… lol. I started to notice that even when you try to get validation with a cocky/funny attack they can still sniff out the insecurity.
Even if they don’t say anything just assume it’s awesome. Because honestly, she’s hooking up with a red pill guy that “get’s it.” She’s lucky.
I ask Mrs. Gamer about the quality and quantity of her O’s. She doesn’t like it either. I do it just to bug her.
If a broad bangs you, that’s enough validation.
Attachment in men is always perceived as weakness by women.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/7918699/Women-view-modesty-as-sign-of-weakness.html
Keep this in mind Softek.
A man never should look for validation…especially not from a woman.
She should look for your validation. That’s the natural way!!
Indeed. Let me rephrase the question to make it more obvious: “Was I a good boy?”
Do you now see how that is inherently the supplication of an inferior? Women will react to that as a man does to “Do these pants make my ass look fat?” It totally kills whatever good feels there actually were up to that point.
And it’s an entirely needless question, nor should you pay any attention to her if she says something about it of her own volition. It’s just noise, it doesn’t mean anything. If she enjoyed herself she will show you with her behaviour.
Softek,
Well done dude! Damn, I just got a fucking kiss this weekend lol. Bad logistics.
Was gonna talk to ya a bit about your logistic/socialization stuff, but Glenn hit it good already and you’ve got shit to process now.
Brofist
@Rugby:
“Still making a hell of a lot of progress than was thinking about @Forge the sky said awhile ago. About slipping back into a blue pill mindset or even routine. It’s a hell of day out here
grateful to be here.”
Old habits die hard. But they do die. And your killer’s knife gets keener with use.
Let no tyrants live in your own head. Root the fuckers out.
On that note, I’d like to thank everyone for your advice a few weeks back, to not get involved with the old one-itis chasing the manager. I disengaged entirely.
Talk about turning the tables lol. I’m keeping it all at arms length but it’s crazy to watch. She alternates between misery and longing.
I get no satisfaction from her misery, but it’s also not my issue really.
She gave me high five a few days back. I didn’t even know you could initiate strong kino with a high five. That shit was impressive.
Softek –
Good for you! I think we can all collectively go “WHEW” knowing you finally made it to the other side. Glad you made it.
And know that this site is visited by men who will have nothing but advice, suggestions and their hard-won experience with women to share with you. I suggest you listen to ALL of it (and I mean ALL of it) and know that’s delivered to you with a lot of compassion and brotherly concern. Experience is the most valuable thing in the world, especially regarding women; if it’s given to you for free, BANK IT.
I don’t know you, and don’t know where you are in the world, but I’ll have a pint in your honor tonight for a job well done.
Softek – Virtual fist bump!
and yeah, lay off any of that “how was it?” stuff. I get it. I spent most of my life far too concerned with how it was for her, and barely any time making it more fun for me. Sad part is? Making it more fun for me makes it more fun for her by default. I was fighting a win-win situation! (I’ve always exceeded at being my own worst enemy.)
Gratz on the score. Now do it again. 😉
@Softek,
Read about your success this morning, well fucking done. You are getting a lot of advice so I won’t bother going too deep. Avoid oneitis, use basic text/phone game for setting up more one on one time, find more plates. Never tell a girl the details of your sexual history. I understand your inclination, but game is game, never do this again. She might want to stick around for more sex, or even some kind of relationship, maybe she won’t. Depends, you did not give many details about her and how you ended up at your place. My first actually wanted to date me, she new she was my first, and she was far from inexperienced her self. We did but she eventually dumped me for “not spending enough time with her.” Didn’t get much out of it and actually didn’t really enjoy the sex very much. But I still remember it hurting like hell when it happened.
@Andy
Validation equates me to the blue pill. I learned from my own demons that it’s counter intuitive.
@Forge the sky
High five from the east the sky’s raining out here good day for a run.
Been journaling gets me away from those familiar demons. Those lips I still remember her lips…
@Mikephil
“I don’t know you, and don’t know where you are in the world, but I’ll have a pint in your honor tonight for a job well done.”
Here here!!
@ keyserSoze
“And when it comes to settling, start all over again and get a Dog.”
Over time, nothing is sexier.
“Time and time again women have performed crazy stunts to get my attention and as soon as they feel that if they wanted me, they could get me, they cut me off”
Yeah, I dealt with a lot of that sh*t man. All they want is attention and validation. They don’t need sex like we do. I just wanna be like, b*tch, this isn’t a f*cking game to me! Haha. And then I think about how, if we were in the wild, I would never let this sh*t go down like that. “Where do you think you’re going?”
Can I have some clarification on why you never discuss your sexual history with women?
I’m not arguing against it, I just want clarification on why exactly this is such a bad idea. I’ve done that a lot in the past and I’m wondering how and why it could’ve fucked up my chances so much and/or completely ruined something.
As for the rest, I have a lot to process. But I love this. The support and the critique. It reminds me of my mentor. The harshest of criticism is nothing compared to what it can protect you from. I’d rather hear from you guys that I did something stupid than do something stupid and end up fucking up something I’ve got going on with a girl.
So no more ‘how was it’ stuff. Never talk about my sexual history at all with any women ever. Those are two immediately glaring issues I can address immediately.
And if I want to keep this girl around I’m going to have to step my game up and avoid getting attached.
In my mind, as crazy as it sounds, I’ve already let go of her and am thinking about how I can get more girls and build my life in general. Girls can flake in a heartbeat, especially if you fuck your game up. It’s never a good idea to get attached. It’s never a good idea to rely on women for sex.
I have to rely on my ABILITY TO ATTRACT women for sex. As a man you have game, you are an Alpha, you know what you want and you know how to get what you want, and you go out and get it.
You attract sex into your world by being the man. I just don’t want to ruin myself by thinking I’m in the clear now that I’ve gotten laid. I don’t even know if I’ll see the girl again. She said she wanted to, but I know that doesn’t mean shit.
She was REALLY into it, I have bite marks on my chest, we banged in three different positions, she sucked my dick like a fucking porn star — but they can flake regardless of what they say or how into it they were, or whatever. It’s not my job to know why as long as my game is tight.
And if I did fuck it up by asking how it went or coming off as insecure, that’s okay. Just never, ever do that again, and take it as a lesson. I fuck up once in a while in my trade. Just make notes as to why you fucked up and NEVER DO IT AGAIN.
Anyway, any time I’d spend worrying about her is time I’m not spending on making a better life for myself, which includes having a regular and great sex life.
Banging was a huge anxiety issue for me because I thought I’d have really bad premature ejaculation. Now that I know I’m okay I think that anxiety has vanished.
I was terrified my whole life of P in V, and now that I’ve done it it doesn’t seem like a big deal at all. It’s ridiculous that I was so worried about it.
I don’t want to fall into the ‘marriage trap.’ Not literally getting married, but the belief that there’s no more burden of performance. Great, you bedded a girl, it went well — but that doesn’t mean you’re done. It only gets harder from there.
And the flaking thing, whether it’s because I fucked up or it’s her own deal — it happens. That happened last year when I had that hookup with that girl. She was all adamant about “I want you so bad” and “I want to see you again,” set up a time for her to come over and she flaked. That happened a couple more times and then never interacted with her again. She just ignored me.
It happens. So I’m ready for that with this. Best to just put it out of my mind. I’m definitely open to seeing her again, but I need to shift my focus to greener pastures: spinning plates.
Thanks again for all the congratulations, support and critique. Couldn’t have gotten this far without this community, and I hope to stick around and improve far beyond where I am right now.
Softek, that’s the beauty of this community of men. It’s a male space and it’s supportive. Together, we figure this shit out and the FI-imposed scales fall from our eyes. We win as a team, albeit a loosely connected, electronically connected one. If you win, I and everyone else wins, too. Enlightened self-interest. It works.
“Can I have some clarification on why you never discuss your sexual history with women?”
1) the fantasy is typically better than the reality. Especially for incels. Her imagination is the biggest tool in your toolbox.
2) she doesn’t want some dude blabbing her sexual exploits all around. So be discreet.
Oh, also:
3) sex isn’t some huge deal to you. It just happens sometimes, crazy huh? Like magic.
Also, I’ve learned that ” sharing ” too much of what you think, what you feel, and how you see things is in general, a bad move. Let women discuss things with each other. They like that. But once you get in the habit of sharing too much with a woman you’re in an LTR or just banging, they start to see you differently. Eventually your overt communication will lead to your ultimate downfall and failure.
There are always exceptions to this line of thought, but you can’t tell right away.
Believe it or not, men understand feelings , male feelings, much better than women ever could. Most times, we’re not that comfortable with certain conversations, but more often than not we can share with each other. There’s been a campaign to get men to ” open up ” and share their feelings and cry or whatever over the last few decades. Don’t fall for the banana in the tailpipe on that. Women ask for it, but they don’t understand what they’ll hear.
They lack empathy on a grand level.
Not saying that’s good or bad, it just is.
If you want her to know something, show her. Demonstrate..etc. etc. etc.
Check out the twisted hypergamy here in NY (on Long Island, a hot bed of older, lonely housewives)
51 year-old teacher w/vice-chairmanship sexually harrasses male staffers, calls them FILFs –
http://nypost.com/2015/08/24/male-staff-claim-sex-obsessed-teacher-sexually-harasses-them/
@Luxocrat
I get that shit a lot from cougars lately. Trying to qualify themselves to a younger man. Recently, one asked me, “I don’t look bad for 55. You would do me, right?” I replied, “Nope. Time to retire, grandma.” She didn’t like that.
“51 year-old teacher . . .”
. . . who doesn’t look a day over 70.
@Softek
There is a time and place for discussing sexual history, but it’s never when you are getting with a girl in the beginning, especially since you have such limited experience. Women want a man to lead and leaders have experience. Although I can see the exception of a women enjoying the novelty of being your teacher, but novelty wears off fast. I have given specifics to girls that I was already involved with. Like what I enjoyed in the past, what other girls were willing to do to please me. Also, telling a girl about another girl I had been with that they might see around. This can drive their competition anxiety into the red. Has to be a natural part of conversation though, they can see some forced bullshit a mile away and the shit testing will get even worse. This then leads into having to be extra comforting if you want it to level out, but that can easily turn into a frame grab situation. Always better to be subtle, but a hail mary can be fun too.
Looking at cdc birth data. It shows that the avg age of first time moms is 26. In 1970 the avg age for a first mom was 21. If you do a projection in 2045 is when avg age of a first time mom will be 30. I would predict that is the year of peak hypergamy in U.S.
I also think we will see what peak hypergamy looks like in the EU around the 2030s.
Rock on, Softek.
She was REALLY into it, I have bite marks on my chest, we banged in three different positions, she sucked my dick like a fucking porn star …
So. you didn’t really have to ask her if she liked it, right?
“51 year-old teacher . . .”
I’ve seen some fairly hot 50+ women. That hag isn’t one of them.
@Softek
The reason you never talk about your sexual past to a woman is the same reason you never talk to the cops: because it will never help you and can only hurt you.
And on the getting laid note…
@Softek, there’s a reason it’s an Iron Rule:
http://therationalmale.com/2011/11/22/youve-been-with-how-many-girls/
@softek
Nicely done!
@Forge the sky
“she doesn’t want some dude blabbing her sexual exploits all around. So be discreet.”
Yeah I was beta when I got laid once and though this was ok. It’s not and never will be. It’s what shouted me over to the red pill.
@Blaximus
“Believe it or not, men understand feelings , male feelings, much better than women ever could.”
I know your right. It’s just a matter of others learning from experience.
@Ang
That’s a hell of an interesting connection to what I see women do in the “real world.” It remind me of the right to be forgotten bullshit they pulled on Google.
@Softek
Women never want full discloser (still catching myself on this one)
https://m.soundcloud.com/miro1973/ac-dc-thunderstruck
Nice work on growing an all.
@Lucien: “@ keyserSoze
“And when it comes to settling, start all over again and get a Dog.”
Over time, nothing is sexier.”
Well played son, well played!
http://reactiongif.org/wp-content/uploads/GIF/2014/08/GIF–laughing-funny-LOL-haha-hehe-hilarious-fun-happy-laugh-Ron-Swanson-GIF.gif
@Softek:
““Can I have some clarification on why you never discuss your sexual history with women?”
Dito sensei’s Iron Rule post about your N-count…Women do not want full disclosure…the truth is what you make it, whatever increases your value, keeps the power shift & frame in your favour, yes…..that. Amused mastery and so on.
What the truth actually is, is irrelevant!
Rollo, did you ever tell Mrs. Tomassi your N-count?
Softek, you should change your handle to “Zombie Apocalypse”.
@asdgamer, exact numbers? no, but she does read my posts/books and has a ballpark idea from stories and friends from my past.
Once again, demonstrate (or have your point demonstrated for you with social proof) your perspective, never explicate it.
I have to COMPLETELY OVERCOME all my handicaps to the point where I am BETTER than 80% of men at least.
Have to have my shit together better than the vast majority of men. I’m having a hard enough time just getting to be AVERAGE, but what I need to do in order to have any kind of sex life and get ANY of my sexual needs met AT ALL is be better than the vast majority of guys out there.
So, in other words, you’ll end up killing yourself anyway, but you’ll do it the slow way, by making sure you’ll end up an exhausted wretch with an ulcer, high blood pressure and similar health problems? Because that’s what you’re basically saying there.
She goes “You don’t understand how hard it is to be a woman and deal with this shit.”
Meh. That’s standard female bullshit. It’s really comical. The average woman has always been completely convinced that she has it so hard while men have it so easy.
I look at Japan as an example. The herbivore men. They didn’t need a manosphere, a manifesto, a red pill, or anything else. This is no ‘movement’….no books or blogs to read. Men looked at the scenario laid out before them….a lifetime of thankless, soul crushing servitude to an ungrateful shrew, and said ‘no thanks’. Probably, even more men who would still like to be a plow horse, can’t because they don’t qualify…they don’t make enough money to be a plow horse. Being a herbivore man is a no-brainer. The choice was no choice at all.
I agree. Japan is a very peculiar environment though, unlike the USA or any other Western nation for that matter. When Japan went through mandatory political and economic transition after 1945, the corporate identity emerged as the only permitted male identity, and economic growth became the only permitted national goal. And when that lost its foundations after the burst of the economic bubble, there was nothing to replace it. There’s no racial tension in Japan, and no palpable threats to national security whatsoever, so there’s practically zero pressure on young single men to man up.
@Rollo
“Once again, demonstrate (or have your point demonstrated for you with social proof) your perspective, never explicate it.”
Makes me think of mastering the Burden of performance
“There’s no racial tension in Japan . . .”
Tell it to the Koreans, Filipinos and Ainu. It would be more correct to say that the racial tensions are not palpable to the average Yamato.
” . . . and no palpable threats to national security whatsoever . . .”
Tell it to the Chinese.
@hoellenhund2
There are plenty of racial issues in Japan: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/05/13/japans-half-black-miss-universe-says-discrimination-gives-her-extra-motivation/
And as someone else noted herein, just ask the Chinese, Koreans, Vietnamese, etc., too. It’s like the adage that if something is not affecting a person, they don’t see it. That being said I do see your great point made
Rollo
Reading you has been a huge change in my life.
I have a question for you. Your blog is great and forgive me is this has been answered before, but the site is really big.
What’s your take on raising a little daughter in this times?
PS: I’m Mexican, please forgive my bad english
This quote by Mary Pipher popped up on my dash on a social media site:
“Young men need to be socialized in such a way that rape is as unthinkable to them as cannibalism” – Mary Pipher.
One woman’s response to this, when I went to look up the author of the quote, was:
“This quote sums up what our society needs to make it a safe one for women.”
Really? Reengineer the thought processes of boys?
Ethnic minorities in Japan are negligible in number and influence. And the ethnic differences between Koreans and Japanese aren’t even that significant. When a culture is sufficiently diverse ethnically, like the USA, it puts more social pressure on average men to act as masculine protectors, because there’s a perception of ethnic threats. That’s not the case in Japan. That’s my point. Herbivore men are more tolerated. Whether racism is prevalent in Japan or not is completely beside the point.
Roll
Men of our age get it. I think we’re both about 47.
We need to look at how to protect our sons. Mine is 12.
Could we start to look at this?
I would be grateful, as I’m sure many others would.
I remember talking about expecting a coming increase in young female celebrities saying that they were bisexual, as a means to maximizing attention from pop culture pushing gender issues so hard, from the girl power crew as a way of saying that it’s either empowering or that their sexuality can’t be contained just by a man; women’s sexuality being so much more complex and all. And also as a way of getting attention from guys the same way girls kissing in the bar to garner cheers from the crowd. A power ploy to frustrate men, make themselves seem unobtainable when the women are at their peak SMV.
Well add Johnny Depp’s daughter to the list.
@ Water Cannon –
Good point. Using the term “identify” allows for sexual malleability without any real consequences. Anne Heche identified as a lesbian when it was advantageous to do so, and reverted to being straight when it also suited her. It allows an easy out when circumstances or better prospects present themselves.
I’m guessing Johhny Depp is going to find out for himself the hard way, one day.
@MikePhil
I also expect that as any of these girls; celebrity or non celebrity, because i also said I expect to see it more and more with regular people; that these girls who are so equally attracted to either gender and down for whatever will all look to have relationships with just men as they get older and the looks fade. The novelty will be gone from being two nubile girls making out and showing affection to each other.
Forgot to ask, Rollo, where’d you get the title picture from?
Hey, do you guys ever stop to consider the idea that, if you’re using the title “Social Justice Warrior” as an insult, you might be the bad guys?
@Marquerite
Your bringing some interesting points that I would find fascinating to speak about in person. Especially guilt vs progress and term use i can still at times get confused about.