Sexual Retirement

retirement

Rational Reader, If-I-Fell wrote a comment addressing a common dynamic I think is larger in scope than most men realize. I’ve addressed this before, but I think it deserves a bit more elaboration. This first part was a commentary on Angelina Jolie’s elective double mastectomy surgery. Emphasis mine:

“I don’t know why Brad would still want Angelina. She is no longer a woman”, I said. Wait for it… Wait for it…

“That’s an awful thing to say; she has cancer in her family, and she had no choice,” she said.

This argument occurred after Angelina underwent her “de-womanizing” surgery, and before the “Brad is a drunken child abuser” incident.

This left the question—why did she have the surgery and why does calling a woman a eunuch raise such an emotional response from a woman, concerning a woman that she doesn’t know or really care about?

The Sisterhood Über Alles®, continuing,…

I am going to assert (without proof or study) that the reason is Sexual Retirement from a Beta (or even an Alpha).

I assert that women in hormonal decline (perimenopause) have a subconscious or conscious desire to retire from sex while holding onto their position and status. I believe this is a different dynamic from the operational cycling woman – dead bedroom. In this case, she doesn’t want sex from anyone, as opposed to she wants sex with someone, just not you. The feminine imperative is pushing sexual retirement as a women’s rights issue.

For a better explanation of the sexual retirement dynamic and if you want to get angry, read Lori Ann Lothian’s article “When He Wants Sex and You Don’t.” Basically, Lori has had her bad boy sex and now instead of using HRT (hormone replacement therapy) and making the effort, she wants to retire. She says that she is more creative when hormonally depleted and her cuck husband is understanding and supportive.

Since I began this blog I’ve attempted to outline the endless number of social conventions employed by the Feminine Imperative. It should be noted here that the Feminine Imperative has always evolved to fluidly reinvent these conventions to advantage women – and thus ensure their sexual strategy – at every stage of their maturity, but also in adapting to new truths that would otherwise threaten women’s insurance. There are many examples of the imperative reimagining various social convention in light of unflattering truths that previous conventions no longer account for, but are unignorable in a larger social scope.

The problem inherent in women’s Hypergamous sexual strategy has always been the balance of optimizing the best breeding potential (Alpha Fucks) with the best long-term security potential (Beta Bucks) in men. The capacity for a woman to optimize this balance is determined by her sexual agency (attractiveness & sexual availability) with men. This is why it’s necessary for adaptable social conventions, that sit outside this dynamic, to be established in order to qualify what should be attractive to men. This in turn enables women to distract and dissuade men with social narratives that comfort women, but confuse and shame men.

Yes, that flies in the face of biological truths about men’s arousal cues, but for generations these conventions have successfully convinced (Beta) men that those cues are learned, socially conditioned, triggers, and that if they’d just change their minds about attraction they’d see that they can be “attracted’ to any woman for any made up reason. This is the same social constructivist narrative that would have us believe gender identity is a learned social construct (which also contradicts the narrative of being born the ‘wrong gender’), and as such, attraction cues are also learned. This narrative works well for the Feminine Imperative because it’s a means to prolong women’s artificially inflated concept of attractiveness,…that is until women reach certain stages of maturity in their lives.

There are two points in women’s lives where this contrived idea about a socially conditioned definition of attractiveness fails them. The first, you may guess, is the Wall; the point at which a woman realizes she’s no longer able (or less able) to intra-sexually compete with other women for the attentions of men she hopes to optimize her Hypergamy with. At this stage there are two social conventions prepared for her – shame for men who base their ‘attraction’ on their primary requisite of physical appeal and not her (very marginal) intrinsic qualities, and/or a redefinition of what should constitute attractiveness (“it’s what’s on the inside that should count”). The latter also having the false confidence inflating effect of making a woman believe that her ‘attractiveness’ should be an indefinite, ambiguously defined, commodity; thus encouraging the belief that a woman can prolong her quest in finding the right guy to optimize Hypergamy well after the Wall.

The second phase is what If-I-Fell describes above, a phase where peri- and post-menopausal women are forced to accept that their sexual agency is at an end, but the need for Frame control still persists. This is a stage where no amount of pseudo self-confidence will convince a woman’s hindbrain that she can depend on her sexual agency to ensure her long-term security. But, as with everything else in a woman’s life, the Feminine Imperative is ready with a rationalization and various social conventions to absolve her of her reliance on her sexual agency and, of course, place the responsibility for it squarely on men’s shoulders.

In fact, those conventions can be quite profitable if you can offer any contrived solution to those insecurities.

Sexual Retirement

As If-I-Fell relates, there are no shortages of pop psychologist, women celebrities and talk show hosts ready with a book, an interview or a testimony of encouragement absolving women of their dependency on their sexual agency (for the entirety of their lives) in their menopausal phase while simultaneously shaming men who would even hint at not supporting this absolving.

Even women who would otherwise have been hated rivals during their sexually competitive years are later forgiven when they provide a salve for these insecurities when they reach an age where even the most attractive among them must come to terms with this sexual retirement. It’s at this stage the Sisterhood comes together in solidarity (in place of cut-throat intra-sexual competition) to bemoan their victim’s status.

The Feminine Imperative is indeed pushing sexual retirement, and absolving women of the consequences of their sexual agency and strategy, as a women’s rights issue. There’s a lot of money (not to mention ego validation) in fostering this in women.

If-I-Fell continues:

[…]Now, I have an argument with the wife every time she says she wants to go off HRT.

At this point, many guys blue and red will think I’m an asshole. After all, the Feminine Imperative is telling women to stay on HRT short-term to relieve symptoms and the risk of blood clots and woman-related cancers is increased. To the contrary, it is my understanding the increased cancer risk touted as doubled can be as small as a change of 1:100,000 to 2:100,000.

Suzanne Sommers has written multiple books in support of bioidentical hormone replacement that covers HRT in detail. This may be a good resource for men whose women have begun hormonally misfiring.

So, here’s the point of my long comment and how it relates to the topic of Reconstruction.

HRT (hormone replacement therapy) for menopausal women is the new litmus test for ’empowered’ women, and the personal impact of a woman’s life-long social investments comes down to a crisis of motive dilemma. Does a menopausal woman, whose sexual agency is well beyond her capacity to effectively compete in the sexual marketplace, accept the marginal risks associated with HRT in order to maintain her libido and her looks “for her husband’s sexual pleasure“?

When Angelina chose to desexualize herself the cover story we’re meant to accept is that she did so in order to preempt the breast cancer that runs in her family. That’s a hard decision to make (and one I’d expect from someone as invested in feminist theology and as psychologically imbalanced as Jolie), but there’s no real acceptable counter to it. She had a double mastectomy to save her life and considerations of her lessened sexual agency shouldn’t enter into the conversation. If we’re to accept that men’s arousal / attraction is to be based on women’s intrinsic qualities and not her extrinsic physical qualities, then any conversation about her opting to electively desexualize herself in doing so is rendered moot.

Men’s Pleasure

Brad Pitt’s pleasure, his arousal, his emotional investment in Jolie is never a consideration because the social constructivist position that attraction is learned disqualifies any counterargument anyone might pose. In fact, just doing so makes that person a pariah – she’s saving her life here man!

However, this transitions us to the idea that women do not ‘exist for a man’s pleasure’. This is a common refrain you’ll get from feminists and Women’s Studies teachers when they try to convince us about the infamous ‘male gaze‘ – they believe that a man’s simply gazing upon a beautiful woman is offensive because he’s deriving some visceral pleasure in doing so.

The male gaze is the way in which the visual arts and literature depict the world and women from a masculine point of view, presenting women as objects of male pleasure. The phrase male gaze was coined by feminist film critic Laura Mulvey in 1975.

Men have evolved to assess sexual availability of women and evaluate their fitness in the span of moments. This was a necessary evolutionary adaptation in the past in that it served men well to breed efficiently and evacuate quickly should a rival or monogamously paired man be in the vicinity to mate guard with violence. And this adaptation is also the result of women’s sexual strategy and predilection for making cuckolds of men.

The operative point here is that within a state of Sexual Retirement the long term partner of that woman is expected to identify with women’s experience so intimately, and reform his personality so thoroughly to accommodate the Frame of women that he is expected to default to understanding that ‘his pleasure’ is never to be a priority for women – no matter how devoted. In fact, this premise is foundational to feminist ideology and something men must be conditioned to accept via Blue Pill indoctrination.

This is a very important Red Pill truth men should understand. Blue Pill conditioning, the Feminine Imperative and feminist doctrine is rooted in the idea that women are never to ‘please’ men. Men are always to perform for, qualify for and serve at the ‘pleasure’ of women. Any idea, any effort, any pretense of overtly or covertly initiate a behavior with the purpose of pleasing a man is anathema to a feminine-primary  social order.

This premise is extended to countless social dictates and social conventions across many phases of women’s maturity and many aspects of our feminized society. In this case, the ‘never for men’s pleasure’ doctrine extends to the question of whether a woman should go on HRT with the express reason of staying pleasing and sexual for a man. That answer will always be a resounding ‘no’ for women steeped in the social conventions of the Feminine Imperative.

Side Note: There are of course many different instances in which a woman may intentionally do something for a man’s pleasure. Strippers, lingerie, adopting a sexy attitude, etc., you can probably think of many more. My intent here isn’t to suggest that women don’t intentionally do things to please men, but rather that their so doing is looked down on with disdain by a larger, feminine-primary social order. In those cases the narrative gets reversed and the line gets blurred as to whom a woman does such things for. If others can be convinced those acts are sources of Fempowerment, or that the means (pleasing men) justify the ends (female power) then we validate the action and, again, we return to a Crisis of Motive.

From Late Life Hypergamy

I wondered if she would even consider taking the new “pink pill”, the female form of viagra, but I’ve read enough counter argument articles from women about it to know that women’s hardwired psychology prevents them from even chemically altering themselves to want to have sex with a man her Hypergamy cannot accept. My guess is that even a cheeky holiday in the Maldives won’t be enough to convince Saira to want to fuck Steve.

However, this simple fact, that women will refuse to take the Spanish Fly to work themselves up and bypass their Hypergamy for their Beta husband’s happiness, destroys the convention that her frigidity is the result of her biomechanics. She doesn’t want a pill to fix her because she knows it’s a holistic problem.

I think it’s very telling that women will cognitively refuse to have sex with a man who represents a less than equitable exchange for either Alpha Fucks or Beta Bucks. When a woman is consciously aware of the fact that the value of a man she should be having sex with (due to societal expectations, marriage, etc.) is not commensurate with what her subconscious is telling her there comes an internal conflict – and one that’s rooted in women’s evolved Hypergamous doubts of suitably breeding.

For all of the equalist hopes that sex might be something men should condition themselves to overcome or cure themselves of, women’s subconsciousness won’t allow them to consciously take a pill that would effectively do the same thing they expect of men – to convince their sex drives to want to be aroused by a woman for reasons other than what they evolved to be aroused by.

This is literally what we’ll condition men for from the earliest ages; to deny their sexual impulse in favor of seeing women in a humanist perspective and condition them to feel shame when their biology wont cooperate with social constructivist belief. Yet, when we present a solution to achieve the same effect with women – a pill that would make them want to fuck men who their hindbrains would otherwise reject – women’s hindbrains are disgusted at the thought of taking a pill to circumvent their biology.

And even that refusal isn’t enough. Men must be shamed for attempting to chemically achieve what takes the Feminine Imperative generation to in men.

As I was finishing this essay I came across the following series of Tweets:

i just sat near by two 60+ women.Let me tell you,hypergamy & golddigging never stops & they r not ashamed at all, laughing when talking about potential man. 1st time that i heard about ‘i’m old, weak & forgetful’ cards.They are part of main deck.

Shiite,they r now talking about age,praising each other that they r still young. Major problem is buying new clothes.

They both have facebook. Proud divorces also… 1 was major slut, bragging about it… So much gold, i cant believe this.

I managed to take a pic, its 1pm,both r drinking, right one is loud mouth, attention whore till the end.

Unfuckingbelievable, one of them is talking about doctor who makes women prettier, ‘he fixed tonnes of tits’ -word for word verbatim.

You can read the rest of the exchange, but I thought this was an interesting contrast to the idea of Sexual Retirement. The older women get, the more comfortable they become in embracing Hypergamy openly. This is something for Red Pill men to bear in mind when they are seeing the forest for the trees with women. The less a woman perceives she needs a man to accommodate the aspects of her Hypergamy, the more comfortable she is in revealing how it operates for her and women at large.

If you come across a woman who’s comfortable in Open Hypergamy, the question you need to ask yourself is, what is it that she perceives about herself makes her believe that revealing her Game to you will benefit her with? Granted, these old women are long past their expiration date with regard to their SMV, but isn’t it interesting that in spite of what’s obvious to any Red Pill guy, they still entertain themselves with believing they haven’t retired from sex in their old age? All of the same ego-appeasement we’d expect from teenage girls still persists into women’s 70s and 80s.

So, is there really such a thing as ‘sexual retirement’ for women, or is it just a convenient way of casting off a woman’s Beta-husband need for ‘pleasure’ after a certain age? I covered this further in Preventive Medicine.

 

342 comments

  1. I think it’s very telling that women will cognitively refuse to have sex with a man who represents a less than equitable exchange for either Alpha Fucks or Beta Bucks. When a woman is consciously aware of the fact that the value of a man she should be having sex with (due to societal expectations, marriage, etc.) is not commensurate with what her subconscious is telling her there comes an internal conflict – and one that’s rooted in women’s evolved Hypergamous doubts of suitably breeding….

    …You can read the rest of the exchange, but I thought this was an interesting contrast to the idea of Sexual Retirement. The older women get, the more comfortable they become in embracing Hypergamy openly. This is something for Red Pill men to bear in mind when they are seeing the forest for the trees with women. The less a woman perceives she needs a man to accommodate the aspects of her Hypergamy, the more comfortable she is in revealing how it operates for her and women at large.

    I asked one of my drug reps a year ago what the hell happens when a woman goes post menopausal. Does sexual desire carry over?

    She responded with: in essence, the message that the women who see their mate as Alpha still seek to please him. The women who see their mate as Beta do the shut down routine. AKA Sexual Retirement.

    Which made me want to get In-Before-the-Lock. Pronto with MRP Game.

  2. Sexual Retirement is a face-saving mask to protect a woman from being perceived as a Cat Lady.

    Postmenopausal women who have wanted sex from me have said that they could go the rest of their lives without sex. It’s as I’ve affirmed before, that women’s libidos around alphas have zip zero nada to do with their T-levels–it’s whether they are lit up or not…whether their desires have been spiked.

  3. “…it’s whether they are lit up or not…whether their desires have been spiked.”

    Correct. Time to steal the attentions towards the cat to attention towards you.

  4. It’s easy to feel empathy for a man like Brad. By societal standards he is (or almost certainly was) an alpha, but he so obviously made blue pill mistakes (i.e. capitulating to her every feminist desire, even to the detriment of his children), and we saw Angelina capitalize on those mistakes. I wonder if he is having a red pill awakening, or if his social construct will prevent him from breaking out.

    It’s easy to have empathy for a man like that, but much better to write about it like Rollo has, so more men will connect the dots.

  5. Brad’s narrative is not the point (he’ll do fine). Angelina’s is (she won’t depite/because of herself).

    Just prior to If-I-Fell narrative, she collected six children. Those six children are better served having two co-aligned parents raising them.

    And then she went off that Reservation.

    Go Figure how the hell that happened.

  6. I’m 62 and was frivorced raped five years ago. I’m thinking about wearing the wedding ring again to discourage the plague of old divorced hags hitting on me or trying to set me up with their “fabulous” friend. But I can’t bring myself to wear that evil piece of gold shackle. Shaving and bathing less should keep them away. I think that’s what I’ll do.

  7. “This in turn enables women to distract and dissuade men with social narratives that comfort women, but confuse and shame men.”
    Very intense on my end…

  8. I apologize in advance for posting this that some people might find unrelated.

    I wanna share an insightful story with you all today.

    I was in London for a business trip. Met a polish girl on college exchance. Met her in a club and fucked her that same night. We were together for a month, I returned to my country, Brazil (so forgive the bad english). We kept in touch because she’s funny and not that dumb. Nudes and videos are not bad either. Half a year later I’m in Zurich and tell her to come. She comes from Poland for a week.

    When I meet her in Zurich she’s different. She shit tests me like crazy. What do I want, what are my intentions, do I want to get married, children, is she just one my many whores, etc. I did well I believe and we still had a good time.

    When I returned to my country, she keeps shit testing me like crazy. I do well in my country with women and I am busy with my job so I pay not much attention to her.

    She gets too annoying and clingy, gets mad if I don’t reply and I blocked her. Never heard from her again until one of her female friends texts me. I find out then that she had a boyfriend when we met in Zurich and made her friend lie to her boyfriend so he wouldn’t find out. When she returns to Poland, she goes to Thailand or some country like that with her boyfriend. She told me she went with her friend.

    The guy bought the ticket that took her to Zurich. He paid for her to get fucked by me. He took her to Thailand (?) so she’d take pics and videos of her naked, masturbating, in the very same bed he paid, for me

    Last week she texts me from another number and tells me she’s coming to Brazil. Asks to see me. I agree. Polish pussy in my doorstep? Sure. We meet and I tell her nothing about it. I poke around and just ask general questions. She passes shit tests like Donald Trump would. Unfazed. Calm. She has no idea I know she’s got a boyfriend.

    This girl blatanly lies to my face and acts resented that I cut off contact with her (while she has a bf). Her face, her eyes, her body language didn’t reveal anything (or I couldn’t tell). If I was another person I would’ve believed her. Her ability to lie was astounding.

    Now who’s this guy? Seems like a charismatic beta judging his facebook photos and LinkedIn job. I feel pity for him.

    How many times have I been in his position? A couple. How many have I been in his position but didn’t find out? It’s a scary thought. Women have developed an ability to lie and just be socially smart that is truly eye opening.

    This time it was my turn to be the alpha male and it feels… powerful. To know a girl would risk her future and stability for me? I feel tingles. But also makes me remember the times I was in this guy’s position. Not good times.

    Anyways, it’s much better to be in this side of the story, no matter how bad I feel for the guy.

    At one moment in my life, I was very naive. Believed a lot of pretty lies about women and learned the hard way. It was mainly Rollo and Heartiste the ones I own in a big part for what I am today. Thanks a lot.

  9. My wife and I are in our mid-sixties and still fuck like horny, sex-crazed teenagers ! Of course I’m at the gym lifting (17 inch biceps, benching 310 lbs.), I dress well, have money, cars, houses, work part time because I want too( retired in 2001 but missed the action) I use married dread to keep my wife on her toes. She knows I could be fucking six other women at any time if I chose to. By taking care of myself she is forced to maintain herself. Life is good. Just never let yourself go downhill.

  10. If ‘his pleasure’ is never to be a priority for women,

    then ‘her safety and security’ is never to be a priority for men.

    Quid pro quo. Equality, even.

    @Luis C: bullet, dodged. great illustrative story, and good job.

  11. @Luis C Great Story. Thanks for sharing

    @Robert K Thank you as well. I am only 15 behind you, and while my wife is 10 years younger than I, it is nice to know that option exists.

    I love the analysis of Pitt & Jolie. I only saw headlines at some store (I never watch/read news) and didn’t even think about these two events until I saw it discussed here.

    Summarizing:
    I. Jolie destroys her SMV, which is 90% of what got here where she is.
    II. They break up afterwards
    III. No one in FI America even considers that I -> II. LOL

  12. Too right, BC. I plan on taking “provider retirement” when my youngest turns 18.

    My 42 year old wife is trying to groom me with talk of her becoming peri-menopausal and “not being interested in sex… at all… with anyone”. I have already started the equivalent: transition-to-retirement through gradually reducing my working hours.

  13. I ran a little experiment a while ago, where I asked all my matches on tinder: “So tell me, what is interesting about you”?

    First of all I wasn’t expecting many replies, as this direct (male) mode of communication, was ‘offputting’ to women (several told me so). But, the answers that I did get where really interesting. The majority, stated something like ‘nothing’, ‘ehm i am pretty boring’ or ‘I don’t know’. I found it extremely interesting that out of the 20ish girls out of a 100 that did reply, they were utterly clueless of that they should do anything in order to attract a man.

    I took this experiment further and dropped the male intro and put some effort into starting of the conversation by asking about her. Nevertheless, after a while I turned it around and re-phrased the same question as above in a more indirect fashion, the result was the same.

    I find it endlessly amusing how contradictory women’s cries are for ‘don’t treat me as an object’, but when you asked well what do you have to offer beyond the quality of an object they A) cannot think of something, B) find it offensive or C) just move onto someone who does not raise such uncomfortable topic. It’s not men that objectify women, they do that to themselves, nevertheless men get the blame for it…

  14. Poor Brad. He had it all and then he went and stuck his dick in crazy.

    I thought the same thing when I heard she had had her double mastectomy – who would want to fuck her then? I sure wouldn’t. But of course the entire narrative was about how brave she was being. What’s brave? She didn’t even have cancer. She chickened out on the off chance it would come around. What’s next – cut your head off because there’;s a history of brain cancer in your family?

    The same women who howl at any man who would question this narrative were the same harridans who cheered to the heavens when that woman cut her husband’s dick off for cheating on her. The crazies will be protected and worshiped and the endless ranks of women will find any excuse to support their sexual contempt for their Beta partners. It’s just one excuse after another.

  15. The truths uncovered in this essay and many others is why I USE women for entertainment purposes only!
    They perform (sex, feminine company) or they are history.

    I don’t love idealistically anymore but opportunistically like they do, the shattered remains of pedestals past serve only to remind me of the limited value that they bring to the relationship table.

    I have embraced male hypergamy and I’m always looking for an upgrade, I’ve even started shit testing THEM just for my amusement, I enjoy taking their hamsters for a ride.

    They only play the “sexual retirement” card with betas, if she sees you as Alpha and her best option she will do whatever it takes to keep you around.

    I don’t feel bad for using women this way because as much as we objectify them for their sexual allure, they objectify us for our utility value.

    Even if she sees you as a “hawt” it’s still all about HER you are a reflection of her value, on display to her peers to affirm her position in the group.
    You are still a utility even if If you achieve Alpha fucks status, they lack empathy and the ability to truly love anyone except maybe “their” children.

    The only concession I make to females these days (and some would consider this beta) is that I pay for their company ( bar tab, occasional trip etc) as I am consuming some of her “time limited currency” for my enjoyment and entertainment without offering any long term compensation package ( marriage, LTR).

    As long as I have my health I can acquire more resources, she can never acquire more youth, so I consider it a fair exchange and can walk away with a clear conscience.

  16. Even women well past menopause will fuck you like there’s no tomorrow if she perceives you to be an alpha. My present woman (though she was married for 25 years) never fucked her husband like she fucks me. Nothing off limits. Never gave her husband head or did anal. Now she screams in pleasure and yells for me to cum deep inside her. She says I take her places she’s never been before (Sexually). And this has been going on over 2 years. We fuck almost every time we see each other. After being a beta cuck for 40 years to a sexually frigid woman this is spectacular and it’s all because of The Red Pill community and especially TRM, CH and others.

  17. An interesting topic.

    As far as I know, the double mastectomy wasn’t exactly unwarranted. Jolie had mutations in both BRCA genes, which basically guarantees breast cancer at some point. Also of note, she had her ovaries removed shortly after the mastectomy—a blood test revealed elevated risk for ovarian cancer. Not that anyone here is disputing this—just wanted to establish the relevant medical facts on her particular case.

    The gist of this seems to be this: that you are beta if your wife expects you to go into sexual retirement when she does. I don’t see a problem with a wife not wanting to fuck around with her hormones via HRT…if she’s willing to look the other way while her husband fucks around discretely. Probably a pivotal alpha/beta tell in this kind of scenario.

    @ Luis C

    Great post—thanks for sharing.

  18. Jolie has always been a nutter. This is the person who kept a vial of her boyfriend’s blood around her neck. I wouldn’t have been surprised if she went full-bore the OTHER way and started kidnapping and killing virgins and drinking and bathing in their blood to “preserve her youth and beauty”. She has looked like a cross between skeletor and cruela devil for about eight years now. But Brad did say his ex was boring. No icky boredom with this bitch, that’s for sure!

    Per the mastectomy…I don’t understand the perspective on that one.
    It’s not like she got her breasts lopped off and kept a couple of bloody scabs in their place.
    The beauty industry/stripper industry/whore industry/body building industry/post-and-pre-divorce cougar industry is replete with fake breasts. Jolie had fake breasts before the mastectomy. I’m not sure why 50, 65, 80 percent fake is okay but oh, noes! Not 100 percent.

    Reality check: Breast tissue is almost entirely made up of adipose. Walk into a pathology lab and look at the lumpectomies if you don’t believe it. It’s just a big yellow blob of fat. So if a woman is skinny and has large boobs, odds are they aren’t real. Or she is anomalous.

  19. “It’s at this stage the Sisterhood comes together in solidarity (in place of cut-throat intra-sexual competition) to bemoan their victim’s status.”

    Reminds me of “Death becomes Her”.

    Madeline’s career has faded, and Ernest is an alcoholic reduced to working as a reconstructive mortician.

    Ernest assumes she has a dislocated neck and drives her to the emergency room. Madeline is told she is technically dead and faints.

    Helen seduces Ernest and convinces him to kill Madeline.

    Overhearing Helen and Ernest discussing their plot to stage Madeline’s death, Madeline shoots Helen with a shotgun.

    Fed up with the pair, Ernest prepares to leave, but Helen and Madeline convince him to do one last repair on their bodies.

    Thirty-seven years later, Madeline and Helen attend Ernest’s funeral, where he is eulogized as having lived an adventurous and fulfilling life with a large family and friends.

    They are parodies of their former selves, with cracked, peeling paint and putty covering most of their grey and rotting flesh. Helen trips and teeters at the top of a staircase. After Madeline hesitates to help her, Helen grabs Madeline and the two tumble down the stairs, breaking to pieces.

    Yeah that’s about right.

  20. @ Mineter

    ‘My 42 year old wife is trying to groom me with talk of her becoming peri-menopausal and “not being interested in sex… at all… with anyone”. I have already started the equivalent: transition-to-retirement through gradually reducing my working hours.

    Honest question: Tactically and strategically, what’s your game plan to provider retirement? Sounds complicated though worthwhile considering her none-to-veiled shit test.

  21. Given that women are a replaceable commodity I don’t see the point in giving a shit about their sexual retirement

    Throw her out and get a new one.

  22. @ Rollo

    I was honored that my comment was useful to this post. I wanted to tell somebody, anybody about this. But, there is no one I can tell in real life, and besides this is Fight Club. Wanting to talk about it is probably a beta tell anyway.

  23. If-I-Fell

    Wanting to talk about it is probably a beta tell anyway.

    Wanting to learn and improve isn’t though. If you do it.

  24. I don’t think that women ever believe that they have lost it.

    Sexual agency becomes an irrelevance to them as they become ever more blindly entitled without any concept that they should bring anything to the table themselves.

    I’m 49 and in good shape. Obese women 10 years older than me speak like they are doing me a favour.

    This is not helped by the sheer number and stupidity of thirsty older men well into their 70’s and 80’s who still believe in being ‘gentlemen’. Unbelievable how many men are brainwashed (ego invested) by that age.

    The act of deluding themselves does pay a dividend for a minority of old women who get on to snag a recycled beta who is blue to the core and becomes a concierge service.

    For those that don’t the delusion is an opiate that mutes the smell of cat piss.

  25. “She’s been posting various photos on social media wearing Gronk’s jersey”

    Moral: Flush the condom.

  26. palmasailor
    “The act of deluding themselves does pay a dividend for a minority of old women who get on to snag a recycled beta who is blue to the core and becomes a concierge service.”
    That’s a sad state of affairs…

    “I must be cruel only to be kind;
    Thus bad begins, and worse remains behind.”
    ― William Shakespeare, Hamlet

  27. I am of the opinion that any form of sexual retirement for homo sapiens is transient at best.
    For the male,retirement would be the result of internalizing social conventions,there by overiding his basic biology.
    For the female,the temporary retirement is biological,and overcome by her hardwired survival mechanisms and also social conventions of egalitarianism (she can be more like a man if she tries harder).

    This brings up a question,I have always suspected that the biological hardwireing of the female brain can’t be overcome by training,they lack the neuroplasticity that a mans brain has.
    Granted neuroplasticity will be less for both genders as they age,although the woman seems quite unteachable after a certain point.

    She is basically wired for social manipulation for survival (herd instinct),cyclical reproductive instinct and protection of offspring.The cyclical reproduction is the part that dies,leaving her to question a sexual retirement strategy,for a woman with any SMV at all this is only temporary.

    A poor woman will need to use her SMV to manipulate a better chance of survival,both for her and her offspring,she will use the rest of the herd to do this,see FI.
    A wealthy woman regardless of her SMV will feel entitled to romance,and use manipulation of social convention and the herd FI to get this feeling of pair bonding.
    In either case there will be a big push for pair bonding,as she hits the real wall of menopause see comfort test.

    This brings up another question,as a woman ages and her testoterone levels increase,does she become more competative sexualy,both with men and other women as well?

    Note it is entertaining to watch two of these post menopausal women as they go through the manipulative power struggle,constantly putting each other through much deserved agony,watch from a distance and don’t get caught.

    We don’t see as much literature on the post menopausal woman.This may be the result of social conditioning.One could be seen as a traitor to the herd of origin.Or they may be seen as harmless,and deserving of having her fun..But make no mistake they are major manipulative players,both in relationships and FI conventions as well.

    As for Brangelina,she is quite removed from reality for a number of reasons and should be an object of pity for her mental condition,he was always a blue pill beta,leading to a career in theater from the start,also an abject object of pity.

  28. @ palmasailor
    We are the same age but my experience is totally different as I’m in better shape than almost every other guy my age (49) I never get fat older women talking down to me like they are doing me a favour, they look and rule themselves out in the main, the brave ones flash a hopefull smile but that’s about it.

    I’m wondering if you are “in shape” as in low bf and good cardio/fitness as opposed to jacked? Women are incredibly bad at assessing men’s clothed bodies unless you are obviously muscular.

    Maybe it’s a defence mechanism, they know they can’t have you so they act all haughty and superior to convince their egos that it’s they that are rejecting you?
    Or maybe you need to look at your body language, are you projecting a weak frame maybe?

    Women be entitled these days but 59 year old women are generally aware of their place in the hierarchy, so it’s probably something you are projecting if these old hags think they can approach you and talk down to you too?

  29. Rollo,
    The images associated with your articles do an astounding job of capturing the topic.
    Notice a man and woman on a barren salt plain. The barren salt plain representing the inability to conceive life, nothing grows in salt. In fact salt has been used for its preservative and aseptic properties since before the pharaohs.
    They are not a young couple. She has short, white hair and her jowl is that of an older woman. He has no hair and a shoulder build of an older male. Look how far away the mountain is, they have journeyed a long way from that peak. Shoulder deep in the salt, time is running out.
    The couple is not facing one another. He is looking at her from an arm’s reach away. His shadow is eclipsing her, so are his sexual needs. She is facing away and to the east. Her eyes are closed in resignation of her sexuality and in anticipation of a non-sexual dawn.
    It is telling that she has already turned away and closed her eyes, even though the sun has not yet set. He is facing her, obliquely, but he has not turned to face either the sun or the dawn.
    As much as I would like to believe he is not going to be there when the dawn comes, I know he will. Look at the vast blue sky and the only other living thing inhabiting his world… is her.
    The quintessential scarcity of the lifelong beta. A full circle FI win. Being beta as a strategy to “attract” women for sex, then still staying after the sex is gone.
    Stockholm calling……

  30. @Playdontpay

    Yes jacked. Plus good cardio etc..

    I date 30’s usually without any trouble.

    I wasn’t implying it happens all the time but it does occur.

    I’m in London, I wonder where you are?

  31. I don’t have time to listen to Stefan’s take right now, but some time ago a friend asked me that question, “What is the truth about Hamlet?”

    I replied that its reputation rested on the fact that you could select any line at random and it is a quotable masterpiece. Probably the most remarkable feat of pure writing in the entire history of literature.

    But the play isn’t really all that good, and it is, after all, a script, not a novel, so you have to judge it for how it plays.

    If you want something that plays well, and is also red pill to the core, check out the seduction scene from Richard III.

  32. @Prometheus, thanks, I’m glad you could appreciate the imagery. I actually put a lot of thought into choosing my pics. I’m an artist by trade so it’s something I kind of have a knack for.

    I will hold off from publishing posts if I don’t find the right shot for it.

  33. @Rugby11

    “That’s a sad state of affairs…”

    Yes, but I’ve witnessed it time after time.

    Older men cleared out by the first ex, fall straight into the hole with the next thing that comes along which rapidly turns into sexless compliance.

    No fool like an old fool.

  34. Going to agree with SFC Ton here: practice hormone replacement therapy via getting a younger woman. It’s the humane option.

  35. I’m thinking of this on the fly, but it’s almost as if men become so brow beaten by a lifetime of beta submission they don’t know what to do when released back into the wild.

    Like the long term criminal that can’t survive on the outside who commits a crime to become re incarcerated in a familiar and comfortable environment.

  36. Palma Sailor:

    A zoo bred lion views its cage as what provides it with safety. If you leave the door open it will probably cringe back away from it. If it is so bold as to venture forth, it will shortly find its fears confirmed.

  37. “I’m wondering if you are “in shape” as in low bf and good cardio/fitness as opposed to jacked?”

    This is off-topic a bit but it’s something I think about. I’m 5’9″ 190, lift 3-4 times a week. I can’t do much cardio because I squat 3 times a week. I’ve tempered it by running eight 1-minute shuttles in the sand on off days, just to stress my heart but not so much that I exhaust my legs too much. I know I would be optimally healthy at about 170, doing more cardio and just maintaining at least some strength through higher rep compound lifts. I know there are all kinds of argument on this issue and I don’t want to trigger all that. But imagine being a chiseled, super-fit 165 pounder (at 5’9″). You would just seem like a small man, obv to both men and women. Unless you went around in skin-tight crap like some douche. If you’re in cotton shirts and slacks, you’re just small. You might be the healthiest, fittest, most cut guy in any room but 95% of the time, you’re seen as just a small man with your body providing no value to your life socially. In the age of gigantic people, you almost have to wonder if you would run into more problems just going about your business. It’s the era of giants, either obesity or all the protein powder meatheads in their twenties so getting too cut/fit as opposed to jacked is something to think about. I guess guys 5’11” and up really don’t have to worry as much. If you’re 6’1″ 180, no one will see a small man there. So it’s something to consider, especially for younger men.

  38. Gents

    Women be entitled these days but 59 year old women are generally aware of their place in the hierarchy, so it’s probably something you are projecting if these old hags think they can approach you and talk down to you too?

    I submit the problem is you are too close to them…

    No fool like an old fool.

    How about this cat?

    76, good hair, fit… girl 14 years his junior…

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/fla-newlywed-76-shoots-wife-butt-lack-sex-life-article-1.2968361

  39. Amplifying @anon: a growing product of the tattoo industry is the tattooed nipple for a reconstructed breast after mastectomy. Women say they want it for themselves to feel “complete.” Sure it’s couched in you go girl terms, not like this is a loving thing to do for your man, but hey whatever works, win win for her and for her man if she is still in the SMP, I won’t get my ka-nickers in a twist about it.

    But of course some mastectomy tattoo gals get all stupid with it and insist on a butterfly or flower instead of a nice natural looking nipple, how droll is that.

    Sexual retirement of course works if poor beta hubby is prone to the shaming, how dare you want to fuck me when I don’t want to fuck anybody anymore you beast. The shaming breaks down if you can say, fine I’ll fuck somebody else then, what do you care. When all they have left is “what will the neighbors say?”, and you don’t care because maybe you’re out there rogering one or more of the neighbors. And you don’t mind getting the stink eye from a few bluenoses if you stop by the small town salon for a haircut.

  40. @Melmoth

    It’s fine. If you have a V shape with toned muscles, tailored clothes and a flat stomach they literally grope you when dating.

    So many men are out of shape you’re exclusive if you’re buff and well presented and have some game.

    This applies to younger men as well.

    @ Kfg, you’re right ref the zoo

  41. “I’ve tempered it by running eight 1-minute shuttles in the sand on off days . . .”

    Just one one minute sprint, done at maximum intensity, twice a week, will give you about 90% of all the statistical risk factor reduction you can get from “cardio.”

    If done properly the quantity of exercise you need purely for “health” reasons is remarkably small.

  42. @Sentient.. yup he’s the guy.

    What was he thinking marrying a 62 year old; she wasn’t going anywhere fast.

  43. @Sentient: the implication is he was 6 years and 7 months with a dry one. I’d suggest he exhibits a scarcity outlook. Now the guy is really screwed.

  44. palmasailor
    What was he thinking marrying a 62 year old; she wasn’t going anywhere fast.

    Well, she was 56 or so when they started “dating”.

  45. @Anonymous Reader I just thank my lucky stars I found the manosphere in time.

    I have an uncle who is in his late 80’s and refused to re marry after an early life disaster.

    He often repeats to me: “Son, the thing about women is that they’ll marry ANYBODY but they’re FUSSY who they fuck”

  46. @kfg,

    I’m knocking my shuttles down to 6 then, from 8. Six felt right and with six, I always get out there. I had recently bumped it up to 8, but 6 is good. Maybe 5 in the summer when warm-up isn’t such an issue.

    All the wasted motion/effort in the health industry continues to stun. Last night at the Y, a group of overweight 45+ women had obviously just started a group workout thing with their trainer. 4 or 5 of them, all obese or borderline. They should simply be out walking and hiking for six months until the weight is gone, then start some detailed exercise, like squats etc. The asshole of a trainer has the whole group doing a 45 minute workout of revolving single arm cable tricep extensions and single arm cable curls. So they really hammered a couple of tiny strips of muscle for 45 minutes. I’m sure they’ll wake up sore as hell in those two small flanks of muscle, lauding their great trainer (whose knowledge is pegged to soreness levels according to the misguided tropes of the fitness industry.) The sad thing is they likely treated themselves to 2-3 extra scoops of ice cream that night because they worked out and deserved it.

  47. Sentient
    I question the evo bio behind HRT therapy AND testosterone therapy… Everything was pretty much in synch until the last hundred years…

    “Life expectency” is usually an arithmetic mean, so infant mortality can skew it. There were plenty of people born in the 19th century who lived to 70 or beyond, but when people have 4 children and only 2 survive to adulthood, that pulls down the average lifespan.

    Either way, I don’t see anyone making an evo bio argument for hormone replacement in men or women. Rather I see people dealing with aging as a treatable condition instead of an inevitable thing.

    You might as well argue there’s no evo bio behind contact lenses…because eyesight was in synch with something or other until the last 200 years or so.

    Tangent: I’ve read the study on female HRT and it’s really not very useful work. The only form of HRT that was tested was a mix of estrogenic compounds taken from the urine of pregnant mares and pregnalenalone (Premarin). That may have been the best hormone replacement possible back in the 1940’s or 1950’s whenever it was first compouned, but it’s way past time to put it out to pasture. I have not read Somers book but I have read some articles by her, and bioidentical hormones are clearly superior to horse piss, for obvious reasons. If doctors weren’t so incredibly stubborn about learning anything after the finish residency, Premarin would have left the market a decade ago.

    A study repllication using bioidenticals compounded for the specific woman with blood work routinely done to track est / progest / T levels would be better, and the annoying thing is many women who get hystorectomies prior to menopause get that kind of hormone replacement. It’s considered standard in some circles – 40 year old woman has to have the nursery taken out of her, but the playpen stays in, she’s still competitive sexually, of course she wants to have her estrogen restored, balanced with progesterone and a dash of T thrown in.

    Disclaimer: anyone who wants to work on their hormones needs a cooperative doctor, and some blood work done every 6 months so IMO and I am not a doctor, this ain’t medical advice.

  48. It’s funny how a short, intense HIIT session just seems too short or too easy. It’s amazing how hard-wired everyone is to think you have to plod along for 45-60 steady minutes of hell. I do my brief shuttle session and I’m done before I know it, and it seems like a cop-out. Years ago, I would run 20-25 shuttles, until my legs almost fell off in the sand, so my mind still thinks that that is true exercise. You don’t want your body to eat itself alive. One thing people don’t acknowledge is how much the heart works during weightlifting, especially compound lifting. My heart pounds for a minute and half after 5 heavy reps of deadlifting. And I think I have an elevated hr for nearly the whole workout from the empty bar warmups onwards.

  49. kfg
    “A zoo bred lion views its cage as what provides it with safety. If you leave the door open it will probably cringe back away from it. If it is so bold as to venture forth, it will shortly find its fears confirmed.”

    Life and safety and security…

  50. Ok, I got your longevity right here: Richard Overton, the oldest US veteran of WW II. He says longevity is all about cigars, whiskey and staying out of trouble.

    Dennis Mangan trawled through a number of articles and videos to pick out various details, such as “active in church”, “still drives his Ford pickup”, “has a 91 year old girlfriend”. Yeah, his girl is over 10 years younger than he is.

    http://roguehealthandfitness.com/coffee-whiskey-and-cigar-longevity-diet/

    Personally, I find this man to be an inspiration. That’s a Thompson submachinegun he’s holding, by the way.

  51. @ Luis C

    Thanks for sharing. Here’s my parallel story, how I came to the red pill, and beat oneitis..

    Backstory: I was married to a Cluster B woman for 20 years who frivorced me 3 years ago. Gas lighting runs in my Catholic family like water in a river. I’m over 6′ tall, and naturally pull chicks like a magnet. My troubles lie in keeping the ones I like. I’m exceeding nice. Devoutly Catholic. Had a N of 1 before I got divorced. Guy Disney to the core. See the problem?

    I dated this lady last summer I met through social circle, and I vetted her as hard as anyone I’ve ever dated (we literally have 400 mutual acquaintances). She was smart, fit, and kind of odd looking, but exceedingly nice, and really really compatible. I fell like a ton of bricks. Literally, the worst oneitis I’ve ever had.

    Things are going spectacularly well, so of course she gave me the fade with some bullshit reason (you know why already), and when I instinctively cleared out (I have huge blue pill conditioning but I know damn well you don’t want to be with someone who doesn’t want you) she’d draw me back in only to ghost me and continue to breadcrumb me on and off for a couple of months. Something happens in September and I blocked her out of my life, but my head was in a vice. How did I screw this up so bad? This had to be my fault!

    What saved my ass was within a week of getting dumped, I wound up with my first very oneitis from 30 years ago who wouldn’t give me the time of day back then, but now at 44 and never married is dying to get wifed up. She literally threw herself at me. I knew I was rebounding and knew she was likely Cluster B also (we kept in touch on and off over the years) so I didn’t get serious with her, much to her frustration. I’m glad I was so heartbroken because if I hadn’t been I’d have got hooked on the new Cluster B (she love bombed me like crazy at the beginning and I knew what came next). How often do you get to bed your first oneitis? She’s tall and sexy and still cute, and for a while there, waited on me hand and foot.

    So, about September, I read every stupid “how to get your ex back” thing on the Internet. Then I stumble on the black dragon blog. His advice makes sense. I read every single blogpost he ever wrote, and from there, I get to TRM from his side bar. The red pill awaits….

    October, I read Straus’ “the truth”. It’s a great read, but I literally become nauseous a couple of times because I can see where he wound up ain’t where I want to be. I swallow the red pill. I’m having trouble with my new lady, and it resembles the trouble I was having with my ex ex GF (who isn’t crazy) so I called her up and asked where she thought we got it wrong. Now I’m seeing two chicks. I’m not exclusive with anyone.

    I find out in November my ex had a new boyfriend, and when I figured out who he was, I remember him being “around” on social media when we were together. Lives two hours away. Zero social media friends in common unless they are her friends. Now it makes a little more sense. My head is still in a vice. The oneitis ex starts showing up at stuff she usually wouldn’t but knows I am. I ignore her as best I can and never speak to her.

    With dating sites being what they are, you are bound to see your ex pop up sooner or later.
    I turn my accounts on in December, within a couple days my oneitis ex looks at my profile (it’s clearly me in the picture) and I’m like WTF she must have broke up with the new guy. Start dating another chick, but inside I’m really hoping my oneitis comes back. She’s actively working her profile (I never clicked it) and by how often she’s online she’s CLEARLY shopping for a new man. Meanwhile, I get another plate who came looking for me. Didn’t last, but I know I can get more of I want em.

    Last weekend my buddy tells me he met the oneitis new guy – at Christmas. Wait – what’s she doing on dating sites if she’s with him?!? I Facebook stalk a little, and figure out they are still an item. And now it’s crystal clear – the whole time I was with her, she was shopping for my replacement. And she’s doing it again. Lather rinse repeat. I feel bad for the new guy. I’m sure he’s decent and kind.

    I’m still ringing a little, but on whole, very grateful to made it out relatively unscathed with my oneitis cured. And the knowledge that AWALT is really true.

  52. @Anonymour Reader

    Clearly Richard Overton is his own man. Lives his life on his own terms and has a “girlfriend”. Not a wife.

    I wouldn’t mind gambling he lives on his own and she just drops in now and then.

  53. I HAVE A GOLD MINE BETWEEN MY LEGS! (Not me–women.)

    For review and consideration, a model of women’s sexuality and hormonal decline based on the trope referenced above.

    Mine = Woman
    Investor = Man

    OVERRIDING RULES OF MINING: At any point in the life-cycle, the mine may cheat one or more investors out of his investment and will most likely get away with it. The mine may also allow prospectors to venture into the mine, “off the books”, to take a nugget or two.

    STAGE 1: Exploration and Planning — The mine must be tested. Its capacity, the quality of ore it can produce, and the price that can be obtained.

    STAGE 2: Construction and Production — The mine goes into full production. Sometimes mine production is interrupted by reproduction, but mostly, the investor is patient, imagining that full production will resume, and continue for a long time.

    STAGE 3: Decreased Production and Possible Sale — While still an attractive investment, the mine is running out. The owner may seek additional investment from the original investor and/or other investors. Profits diminish, but there are good days when the mine can report an increase in production.

    STAGE 4: Ceasing Active Production: The mine is pretty much closed. The investor will not see much in the way of additional profits. The mine doesn’t have much pull in attracting new investors, but may try anyway.

  54. @ palmisailor
    Based in Liverpool, let me know if you’re ever up this way and feel like a few beers and a red pill chat.

    My plate is 31 so Im doing ok avoiding ladies older than me, but 30’s girls can be dangerous due to baby rabies.

    The thought of dating an FI “age appropriate lady” just doesn’t occur to me anymore unless she is an outlier.

    My ex milf plate 46 was a fake titted gym bunny into Botox and fake lashes etc actually had a better body than the 31 year old but she started showing signs of peri menopause and craziness so she had to go.
    Menopause is natures way of telling you that you need to trade her in.

    I can’t even imagine entertaining being talked down to by some 59 year old relic without laughing in her face. Doable women at her age or older are like 1 in 10,000 only Raquel Welsh comes to mind.

    Don’t feel bad about showing your distain for these creatures as you are an Alpha agent of righteous karma, treat them like they treat betas or as if they are invisible if you are feeling kind.

  55. So, is there really such a thing as ‘sexual retirement’ for women, or is it just a convenient way of casting off a woman’s Beta-husband need for ‘pleasure’ after a certain age?

    Of course sexual retirement, in evo bio paradigm is real… inability to reproduce… The recent killer whale report – killer whales go through menopause it seems – had the shocking conclusion that the purpose of this was to take the older females out of the mating market… to lessen the competition with the younger females.

    Implications on this re other female mammals have been limited… Lolz…

    Beyond menopause – you will get the sex you command. Really mostly the same thing as pre-menopause, except for fits of baby rabies…

    It’s not them. It’s You.

    Always.

    Think of the guy whose wife says “Will you still love me if I got fat?” And he says “I will always love you. ….. ….. ….. I sure would miss you though”. Same thing here, perform girly are you are working your way out of a job. Incidentally that was a money line I dropped on the wife once… “looks like your working your way out of a job”.

  56. Melmouth
    One thing people don’t acknowledge is how much the heart works during weightlifting, especially compound lifting. My heart pounds for a minute and half after 5 heavy reps of deadlifting.

    You can still find articles by “experts” who assert that there’s no cardio benefit to weight training. Often associated with that USDA ‘heart healthy’ high-carb diet pyramid. Funny how that works.

    I don’t do Pilates but some people in my social circle do. One post menopausal woman stabilized her bone density reading and actually increased it after a year and a half of regular Pilates.

    We do have this hangover from the 19th and 20th centuries about “exercise”, it must take certain forms and must last for a certain time otherwise it doesn’t count. High Intensity Training has been around for years and high intensity interval training is several years old. When something works, it’s worth looking at.

    More than one man has given up on The Gym because he couldn’t afford an hour per day 6 days per week…

  57. women’s subconsciousness won’t allow them to consciously take a pill that would effectively do the same thing they expect of men – to convince their sex drives to want to be aroused by a woman for reasons other than what they evolved to be aroused by.

    IDK Rollo, I’d say that HBC and abortion on demand have gone a long way toward providing exactly this.

  58. @playdontpay

    I will if I get up there.

    I’ve got 3 plates plus 3 in a holding pattern.

    Live plates:

    2x mid 30’s and I worry about baby rabies – looking forward to Vasalgel.

    3rd plate is identical to your 46 year old in all aspects but still on rotation because she’s the best sex of all of them…

    What’s a boy to do?

  59. I’ve read about Overton too and even brought him up in my classes. He’s wiry and never had kids, so..hmm…stuff to think about there.

    When he met Obama, he was happy about it but the comment I remembered is that Obama “was a regular fella, just like anyone” or something along those lines, like “What’s the big deal?”) He was no smitten fanboy. So it sounds like he avoids socially constructed emotions/paradigms (okay, that’s a huge extrapolation on my part but there was something to it) Live your own life and don’t get swept off into surrounding culture. That’s a huge issue in the internet era.

    Mostly he seems like the most mellow yet active and appreciative man who enjoys life quite a lot. His indulgence in cigars and whiskies might be his own message to himself; life is enjoyable so stay in it. You wonder if people who deprive themselves in the name of optimal health are sending their body a message of “life isn’t something to enjoy” so the body just thinks, “Okay, fine. I’m done then.” I wouldn’t doubt that Overton indulges in A LOT of hours each week just chilling on his patio and simply enjoying the state of being alive. Total relaxation. Something to consider there.

    It’s surprising how many of the post 100’s who end up interviewed will nearly always have an indulgence in their life that adds entertainment to the stories. Whiskey, cigars, Dr. Pepper, chocolate etc. I’ve never seen a 100 plus story in which the subject talks about kale or rutabaga, ha ha.

    Overton is active in his yard every day, much like those old Japanese women who never die.

  60. My 2 cents again:

    Fitness, is not simple math i.e. more exercise = more calorie loss and better looks.

    Here’s how I see it: TRM dude wants to lose 15 pounds, gain muscle and definition. That’s 3500 Cal x 15 = 52500 Cal net loss by exercise, diet or combination.

    Guy starts cardio, lifting. He’s motivated so is in the gym 3 hrs.

    Running caloric Burn for 195# ~/= 147 Calories for every mile run at 8.5 min/mile. Good clip. He’s overweight, so every day he runs 3 miles x 147 Calories. 447 calorie loss 25 minutes.

    2.5 hours left in his day. He starts lifting. Lifting caloric burn: 270/hr x 2.5 = 675 Calories

    675 + 447 = 1122 Calories lost through exercise.

    He cuts 500 calories out of his diet, he’s now at 1622 Calories.

    52500 Calories needed to loose/1622 Calories per day = 32 days.

    Now it get tricky. This process assumes he performs with robotic regularity, no weekend cheating, with GSP style discipline.

    Mere humans don’t function this way. Most of us would fail with this program. By fail I mean cheat, puss out, get injured and put off our goals indefinitely til the orthopod tells us our 30-40 y.o. torn Achilles tendon/rotator/ACL is ready for action again…but we all know the lost time out of the gym just makes our goals less achievable as we didn’t drop our intake by 1622 Calories a day or even half that to accommodate for the exercise loss. And we get distracted by life’s other pursuits.

    Even a PT designed 90 day plan is tough to do as they are generally limping their clients through the machines ruining the intensity level with talk and distraction. Moreover, PT’s and exercise trainers can’t monetize the process of not eating. They can monetize exercise programs with those little cards that people fill out in the gym. It’s too damn hard to incentivise not eating. We’re too addicted. Hence Jenny Craig and such.

    The exercise/medical industry has given up trying to get people to lose weight without lining their own pockets. Your primary physician, PT, trainer job is perfunctory to maximize clients through the door. If there is improvement long term, yay, but not required.

    Wrap up analogy: For the average guy it’s easier to gain wealth by not spending than earning more as we can realistically only work x hrs a day but we can lower our output to bare minimum levels using the magic of compound interest. Ditto with weight loss. There is a realistic limit to our exercise ability, but we all would lose weight eating ~1200 a day. No exercise required.

  61. @ Anonymous Reader

    I have a coach/trainer who is a former Pro Cyclist and professor in kinesiology. She says that there is cardio benefits to weight lifting but it’s only when you are doing work, not standing around looking at the mirror or trying to get your heart rate down because you are above your anaerobic threshold.

    Think about it like a internal combustion engine – if you have an engine at 6k under load, it’s mailings power and using fuel. If you step in the clutch and keep it at 6k, it’s just wasting parts and wearing it out.

  62. @EHintellect

    You can do the ‘not’ eating thing but you have to change your entire relationship with food.

    Very difficult but it can be done.

    You face a lot of ‘slim shaming’ by those who would rather you become as fat as they are.

  63. “You face a lot of ‘slim shaming’ by those who would rather you become as fat as they are.”

    Spot on. Lost 25 pounds in a couple months (185 to 160) 5 years back and coworkers thought it was a crisis. I didn’t talk about it, just did it. Never promoted it. Then it turned to shaming, so true…

    Stopped eating three hot squares, stopped caring about food in general. It was RP for dieting. I began to see my, other’s willful food dysfunction, couldn’t mention it as BP policy rules the day. Beat the dead horse, the women here, the professionals too, are disgustingly fat now, the last 5 years have been logarithmic in expansion.

    Was officially dressed down recently for discussing the advantages of not eating vs. spending on trainers. I thought I was doing a grand job! Heh.

    The King likes his nudity, thank you.

  64. Dizzle,

    Trainers are full of shit as is your analogy between a stressed heart muscle and truck’s clutch. That whole industry only survives by overcomplication and deception. Let me guess, your trainer is a good one because you’re always sore the next day because she found a different ‘muscle group’ to target, right?

  65. “I have a coach/trainer who is a former Pro Cyclist . . .”

    Small world. I’m still faster than the all time TT records of the fastest ever local female pro, at more than twice the age she was at time.

    “She says that there is cardio benefits to weight lifting but it’s only when you are doing work, not standing around looking at the mirror or trying to get your heart rate down . . .”

    She is not correct. Recovery from oxygen debt uses the same metabolic pathways as aerobic exercise. It’s one of the reasons that interval training works as it does. I live in upstate NY, so we have a real OFF season here.* A couple of years ago set a TT all time course record in early April, first week of outdoor riding, and my training program for the entire winter had been nothing but HIT for strength.

    Your search term for today is “Body by Science.”

    *I’ve just come in from shovelling. 1-3″ my ass. With 6 already on the ground it began to really start coming down heavy. I’ll have to go out and do it again in a while.

    **I do usually do some roller riding in the off season, but it’s because I TT on fixed wheel. I use a very low gear and what I’m training is my foot speed, not my metabolic system per se. Typically 20 minutes, including warm up and cool down.

  66. @Sentient, abortion and HBC are still arguable as to whether their intended use is proactive or reactive for women.

    My take is that abortion is a failsafe for Hypergamous doubt, but also an insurance policy in that guarantees women will always be the unilateral controllers of whose child will be born and provided for, and whose will not.

    Unilaterally female-controlled HBC serves two latent purposes; it allows women more leeway their determining a man’s Alpha status and his potential to commit, and it provides them with a plausible ‘gotcha’ mechanism when they conveniently miss a pill in order to become pregnant and lock down the men she thinks best serve her needs.

    Both HBC and abortion have utility to women’s Hypergamy. Taking a pink pill only serves to circumvent women’s Hypergamous cues for sex. IOW it only serves men’s pleasure in that it chemically predisposes women to want to fuck men they have no genuine tingles for. Thus, women refuse to take it, question its effectiveness or marginalize/ignore it entirely.

    We enthusiastically endorse men using Viagra and circumventing their own natural arousal cues (even if ED is legitimate) for the pleasure of women, but we shame men for even suggesting women ought to do the same with the pink pill. If a woman doesn’t pass the boner test it’s his responsibility to find a way to ‘perform’ sexually for her pleasure or (we are socialized to believe) she’ll find someone who can. Reverse the sexes and the man suggesting the same thing would be just this side of being guilty of marital rape.

  67. “Think about it like a internal combustion engine . . .”

    The human engine is a multi-fuel hybrid. At different times one of the fuel systems dominates, but all fuel systems are always running. There is no clutch. Taking the load off the motor is called “death.”

    The heart is not the motor. It is the fuel pump. Its rate is elevated after you stop moving because there is still a demand for fuel to supply the work load.

    This is one of the reasons that power meters have replaced heart rate monitors as the principle training tool. Heart rate is tied to “motor” load, not physical motion. Your “motor” is in your cellular chemistry where you can’t see it working . . . but your heart does.

  68. @ Melmoth

    Actually, no – the opposite was true. I was destroying myself because I didn’t understand something called periodization (wasn’t giving myself enough time off to recover), and I had the macros wrong in my diet + I wasn’t eating right on the ride. My calories intake was okay.

    I’ve never actually worked out with her other than to do VO2 max tests to check my functional threshold power and set my HR rate zones. She’d upload what I was supposed to do to this software, and I’d go get the miles.

    I went from 300 pounds to 222 in two years, and from where I couldn’t hardly pedal around the block to riding 200+ miles in a single day. Last year, I rode over 5000 miles and climbed 235,000 vertical feet, and was never injured. My trainer made that possible, because she introduced me to recovery days and proper nutrition macros.

    You are welcome to your opinion, but you are shy of facts. If something scares you and your HR jumps to 175, it’s a lot different than if you are at 175 climbing a 8 percent grade that lasts 15 miles.

  69. @ KFG

    I actually have both. Started with a HR monitor, switched to power about two months after hiring my coach.

    Joe Friel (author of Cyclists Training Bible) won’t coach someone who doesn’t have a power meter. Both my mountain and road bikes have them now, but I only use them for data acquisition UNLESS I’m on a long sustained climb, and I have to remind myself to take it easy.

    I used the power meter on the mountain bike to check out how many average watts I need to do to climb certain parts of the courses I race on, and then I go out on my road bike and simulate that same sort of output:duration during training. Because of logistics, I have to.

    If I’m on a ride I pay attention to how I feel and look at my HR. If I feel strong and my HR is low, I’m taking it too easy. If I feel blown up and my HR is near max, I’m either not feeling well or I’m going too hard.

    Maybe I used the wrong analogy, but an IC engine that is at a set RPM loaded and unloaded seems to be a decent gross equivalent to what I’m talking about.

  70. Rollo
    https://mobile.twitter.com/RationalMale/status/829777400057720832/photo/1
    Went out with two dear companions of mind yesterday to eat after we where in a meeting. Each one of us was talking about helping are fellow brothers deal with addiction marriage and life in general. We brought up where does personal responsibility start and where does it end in dealing with people who you are willing to help but don’t want to cross boundaries with. It was interesting for a lot of reasons because they both help people. They cared for who had alcohol issues as far as abuse is concerned. But I kept pointing out how much of a hero savior complex I built up when dealing with people I grew up with. The rejection (help) of relationships with people I attempt to love by passing on the harsh truths of what life is and not what the dream of wanting it to be is. It was difficult because the resistance and backlash is brutal. I lost 4 friends last yr for their own reasons. I never got closer an any of them and reasons for it. But when I do want to help it’s been a tough ride. I don’t bring up the red pill unless someone ask for it. I spent the whole day today trying to find ways or me to be more descrite. I don’t think it’s a good ideal to help people unless they are seriously hurting. It’s been weird because I still fall back on old patterns of behaviors with certain triggers. But when I catch myself I got a new joke to laugh with myself at. One thing I’ve been thinking about is creative aggression. It’s profoundly useful in any element of human trauma however it dosnt give you leeway in the trusting the process of become forced into a red pill awareness (my case) from 6 or pretended to imagine life being anything more than what it already is. Open transparent disclosure isn’t beneficial knowing women never want full discloser. But looking at yourself in a mirror can kickstart, Internal change that build on with resilience. We ended the conversation with being are own noses and having are own business. Both men besides me had their family’s hurt by divorce.
    Didn’t being you up this time. One mouth ago I had a buddy who wanted to help me get back with a girl he’s been seening for 6 yrs. it backfired because anything I brought up wasn’t computing. (Looking back I’m probably still unplugging) not pushing any of your work anymore, not because I don’t want to but because it’s always to intense to quick. Maybe it’s my approach of giving both your books away. Maybe I should just send them to the site. But men are really hurting out their.
    Engaging in the present and going forward…

  71. @ KFG

    Shoveling snow like you describe is similar to digging ditches by hand (I farm) – both aerobic.

    She was talking about somebody who goes to the gym for an hour and lifts x net pounds as opposed to somebody who went there and stayed twice that long and lifted half as much net weight.

    Hours in the gym do not equate work done.

  72. “If something scares you and your HR jumps to 175, it’s a lot different than if you are at 175 climbing a 8 percent grade that lasts 15 miles.”

    At that’s because . . . ?

    Your heart isn’t the motor. It’s the fuel pump (your lungs are the carburetor). It is entirely reactive. Training your heart is putting the cart before the horse.

    Your heart rate only increases when something makes it increase. It is that something that needs training. Your heart rate remains elevated after you stop doing work because that something is still working.

  73. “Hours in the gym do not equate work done.”

    That’s where I came in to this movie, and that’s my tune you’re singing.

    But here’s the chorus:

    Work done does not equate to training effect.

  74. “You face a lot of ‘slim shaming’ by those who would rather you become as fat as they are.”

    When a guy at MMSL was making weight loss gains and saying stuff like “Hey I think my wife has noticed” he would say “enjoy the cookies” because within about 3 weeks over and over these women would see a crisis looming and start baking…

    women…

  75. The ‘male gaze’ rubbish is exactly that.

    Men who are *born blind* — meaning, they’ve never had the pleasure of actually seeing a woman in their entire lives — still prefer the low hip to waist ratio that all other men prefer.

    You’ll never hear about that in some anti-science Wymyns Studies course

  76. Fun facts:

    Average age of achilles tear: 42

    Achilles insertional tear requires one month on roll-about & boot then months recovery.

    Achilles burst requires two weeks roll-about then months recovery.

    The soft injuries give me the creeps…and being hit by a car while exercising outside. Can’t give up the headphones tho.

  77. @ KFG

    We don’t disagree. I think I was inarticulate. I’m guilty of blinding people with knowledge of a technical nature, and making an effort to simplify. Probably went too far.

    Your HR isn’t like an engine. It’s just a tach. Sitting in the parking lot revving your engine doesn’t do much or tell you anything.

  78. “She was talking about somebody who goes to the gym for an hour and lifts x net pounds as opposed to somebody who went there and stayed twice that long and lifted half as much net weight.”

    My two cents again re: exercise time vs. exercise efficiency vs. injury avoidance

    Many begin exercise with a litany of objectives in mind and lose sight of who they physically are at the time. This can lead to poor results on one side (underexertion) and injury on the other (overexertion).

    O.K.
    Draw a quadrant
    y-axis: P. of injury (0 to 100%)
    x-axis: Intensity (METs, barbell weight, VO2 max, poundage, something that could be objectively measurable) or subjectively understood by you alone (difficulty of running, pain, point of failure). Split axis 0-100%

    195 # TRM reader wants to lose some weight. He begins cardio.

    He’s on the treadmill, from 0 to 6 MPH, his P. of injury level shallowly rises from 0 to 20%, his intensity level rises to 60%.

    He accelerates to 7.5 mph. Now his P. of injury inflects to 55% and his intensity moves to 85%.

    He accelerates to 8.5 mph and now his P. of injury is almost 95 and intensity is at 95% (really hurts/can’t keep up).

    I suggest that TRM reader guy remain in the 65-85% intensity level, slowly increasing to 85% when desiring improvement with the knowledge that injury is almost certain when one steps past 85% because of factors AR cited (poor form, over-flextion).

    The difficulty is finding where that 85% intensity is, and workable 55% P. of injury, accounting attendant daily physical changes that affect workout, healing, performance. It’ll take a lot of personal physical knowledge, temper to back off even when the mind wills progress (then summary injury).

    @ all

    It’s my Friday. Thanks for another week of lively debate, witty ripostes and esprit de corps.

  79. Dizzle,

    You let yourself get to 300. You should stand down and listen when people talk about exercise then. You chime in with some knowledge of how a heart works in response to compound lifting but you haven’t mentioned if you’ve ever lifted. It doesn’t seem like you have.

    “You are welcome to your opinion, but you are shy of facts.”

    Where do you get that?

    “I’m guilty of blinding people with knowledge of a technical nature”

    No you’re not. Don’t worry about that.

  80. Rollo
    If a woman doesn’t pass the boner test it’s his responsibility to find a way to ‘perform’ sexually for her pleasure or (we are socialized to believe) she’ll find someone who can. Reverse the sexes and the man suggesting the same thing would be just this side of being guilty of marital rape.

    Exactly. Such a pink pill would at some level be a form of negotiation of desire, so…

  81. EhIntellect
    The soft injuries give me the creeps…and being hit by a car while exercising outside. Can’t give up the headphones tho.

    Well, if you have an open casket funeral we’ll be sure to put them on your head for the viewing, ok? Make you more lifelike.

    I used to drive a really noisy vehicle, wearing near isolation headphones. But I had a lot of mirrors and kept looking around me, so I wasn’t surprised by anything in traffic. Still, it bugged me because I really couldn’t hear the engine or any sirens. The other week I drove a different truck for a few hours and tried it with the radio, then tried it with earbuds running off of my phone. The isolation with the earbuds was almost complete, so except for driving on a divided road with zero traffic, I stuck with the radio. Because I really could not hear a siren, I saw the flashing lights in a mirror first. Hmm.

    Last time I was on the west coast, I went out for exercise and was interested to see just how close I could get to other walkers or joggers who had phone/earbuds going on. It’s like shooting goldfish in a bowl, the situational awareness seems to drop to near zero – anything that is not right in front of their eyeballs doesn’t exist. Being urbanites they did glance left n right before stepping into the street, so I didn’t see any near collisions in that way.

    But I’m surprised more of them don’t get mugged or otherwise jacked up.

  82. corypheus

    The ‘male gaze’ rubbish is exactly that.

    Notice it’s almost always 20-somethings or competitive 30-somethings who fuss about the “male gaze”. Sometimes when I hear that I just tell them “Don’t worry, in a few years no man will bother to look at you”, then smirk.

    Because it’s not the “male gaze” they don’t like. It’s the Beta gaze.

  83. @kfg

    The human engine is a multi-fuel hybrid. At different times one of the fuel systems dominates, but all fuel systems are always running. There is no clutch. Taking the load off the motor is called “death.”

    The heart is not the motor. It is the fuel pump. Its rate is elevated after you stop moving because there is still a demand for fuel to supply the work load.

    i understand this and it makes complete sense… buut…

    This is one of the reasons that power meters have replaced heart rate monitors as the principle training tool. Heart rate is tied to “motor” load, not physical motion. Your “motor” is in your cellular chemistry where you can’t see it working . . . but your heart does.

    you lost me on this one…lol…

    i understand that the power meter essentially measures ‘work output rate’ which differs from HR… and you need the power meter to gauge your work rate (which is what actually causes the training effect…(for whatever amount of time at that rate you sustain the effort…) correct? bc you can adjust your work load based on % then, right?)

    but don’t you actually need a HR monitor also?… how else can you determine your cellular efficiency?… which has to tie into VO2 max at some point, right?

    or is just a second hand on a watch at scheduled intervals post-exercise close enough? but that would only tell you your recovery ability…

    wouldn’t there be some value in knowing HR level v. power output at the same time? or is just knowing your recovery time per work done close enough?

    good luck!

  84. @EhIntellect

    My objective is to be rid of her with as little pain to me and our children.

    My overall strategy is be less utilitarian than I can be, and subtly building up her own income earning capacity; I also want my children to grow up well adjusted. The long game could change in an instant depending on the trigger. I have already decided she’s not worthy of me, but I am in the diabolical situation that if I left her now, the kids would suffer and she would emotionally and mentally abuse them. It’s too risky to assume a family court would accede to my kid’s wishes to live with me, and she wouldn’t want to give up (let alone pay) child support.

    It’s not as easy as it sounds to find a balance. I’m actively trying to avoid getting a promotion at work, but I keep getting put on high profile projects. Many men are naturally ambitious and would be unable to do this. I now look at it like this: why would I want more responsibility and stress, less time for myself, in exchange for the increased income that would go mainly to others (tax, spouse, kids)?

    My purpose is heavily coloured by my jurisdiction. Alimony is rare here, but I don’t want to leave anything to chance. If she is working, she would have a harder time demonstrating a legitimate need, and limiting my own earning potential (artificially, of course) would reduce my capacity to pay. Child support here is pretty much a function of assessed taxable income. The lower my income, the lower my CS liability. I have taken a company car as part of my salary package – I get to drive a nice car, reduce my taxable income, and she can’t get it in a property split (it’s not legally mine!).

    I have availed myself of sacrificing salary for extra vacation time. Reducing my taxable income. I will reduce my hours to part time as I can afford to. If I could, I might recruit a Dr Howlong type to certify that I NEED to work fewer hours (because “stress” – makes it harder, but not impossible, to impute greater earning capacity).

    My ultimate tactic is after my divorce gets settled and statutory filing limits pass, I can ramp up my work again – and keep almost all of it for myself! And potentially use it as bait to pump n dump gold diggers. Then again, I might prefer to have a life, rather than benefiting my employer and the government.

    Ideally, she would do the decent thing i.e. get me a life insurance payout. Personally I’m not fussed if she did this sooner rather than later, but kids need their mothers (at least emotionally, even if she is useless in other regards).

    YMMV. Getting advice from competent lawyers (family law, tax) and an independent financial adviser would be money well spent.

    Best of luck.

  85. “Your HR isn’t like an engine. It’s just a tach.”

    A heart rate monitor is like a tach that counts the oscillations of a fuel pump, because your heart is like a fuel pump, not a tach. The reason you might want a heart tach is because the heart (so long as the engine is running) is always under load, and so acts as a proxy measure for the load on the “engine,” because the engine cannot free rev, hence the demand for fuel is a proxy for the load.

    Note that cars do not have power meters, or fuel pump tachs. The car analogy is useful, so long as it is not taken too far. Note a car and its driver share a common part, remove that part and the car is inert, so the function of that part is also part of the function “car.” Remove that part from the driver and the driver also becomes inert and there is no replacement part available (although they’re working on it for cars).

    So that part must be a very important part of the engine.

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