The Reconstruction IV

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The Red Pill shows you the dark side of women. Not so that you will hate them but so you appreciate them for what they are, not what they’re not.

I think one of the harder aspects of the Red Pill for men who get awakened-while-married (or while monogamous) to accept is the disillusionment of their Blue Pill idealism about women confirmed for them in the behavior and mindsets of their wives. Breaking the Blue Pill ego-investments of single men who unplug is a difficult task, but their investment risk in women (real or imagined) they believe might make acceptable long-term mates is far less than a man who’s been married for more than 4 or 5 years.

For the single Red Pill guy with the option to simply walk away from a less than optimal situation, his conflict becomes one of potentials and weighing them against his Blue Pill ideals – ideals his unplugging should rid him of. His struggles is one about the “what ifs” and disabusing himself of the scarcity mentality that the Blue Pill has conditioned him for. While Hypergamy inherently instills in women a persistent doubt about a man’s quality, the Blue Pill instills in men a doubt about “quality” women’s scarcity and his capacity to find and maintain a ‘soul mate‘.

However for married men, with a considerable amount of emotional, social, financial and familial investment at stake in his marriage, there’s a natural resistance that comes in the form of denial. What’s tough is that, within this initial state of denial, a husband accepts the Red Pill truths about women and then has those truths confirmed for him by the woman he’s been sleeping next to for a number of years. All of the awareness about men and women’s differing concepts of love, the truth of women’s Hypergamously motivated opportunism, her confirming her open Hypergamy, all of the events that led up to his committing himself in marriage to her while he was still effectively Blue Pill – all of that gets confirmed for him when he puts into practice the concepts he learns from the Red Pill.

For all of the ‘anger’ that profiteering critics would like to wipe off on Red Pill thought, that anger finds its base in men’s confirming their own role in what was (or would’ve been) a life-long strategy for him to fulfill the dictates of women’s Hypergamy as well as the larger scope of the Feminine Imperative. When we put this into the perspective of a married man who unplugs, you can see why this is such a threat to the imperative. That man must reassess his life from the position of his being an unwitting participant in his Blue Pill conditioning, but furthermore, he becomes a constant caution, a warning, for men who have yet to make the same uneducated decisions he has.

There is nothing more depressing to me than to listen to a married man parrot back all of the tropes the Feminine Imperative has taught him to repeat about why he’s in the subservient role in his marriage. These are the guys who’ll laughingly tell single men how they must “clear everything with the Boss” before they are allowed (or will allow themselves) to participate in anything remotely masculine or self-entertaining. These are the men who prattle about their ‘honey-do’ lists, the men who count themselves fortunate to have such a ‘great wife’ who’ll allow him to watch hockey or football on a weekend. I wrote a more detailed post about these men in The Abdication Imperative.

These husbands are depressing to me because, in their Blue Pill ignorance, they represent the summation of their roles according to the strategies of the Feminine Imperative. They’ll gladly White Knight for their wives’ right to the Frame of their marriage (under the pretense of equalism). They’ll laugh and commiserate with other husbands sharing their position of powerlessness-but-with-all-accountability. They’ll chirp with funny little Facebook memes that share their ridiculous, married state, but for all of that acquiescing to their ‘fates’ what they really represent is the goal-state of men in the Feminine Imperative’s plan for their lives.

Men generally come to the realization of their appointed role at some point in their lives. Whether it’s Red Pill awareness or coming to a mid life crisis epiphany, men get ‘woke’ in some respect. The few who don’t are men whose existence literally depends on their not coming to terms with how the Blue Pill has made them what/who they are. The most common way for men to come into this awareness has been that mid-life epiphany, but in order for men to reconcile that awareness with maintaining a comfortable sense of self they become the men I describe in The Abdication Imperative. They really don’t know anything else but what the Blue Pill has created them to be, so they go into denial and add some self-deprecating humor to it to cope with the dissonance of knowing they’ve been played by the Feminine Imperative for the better part of their lives. So you get the ‘Yes Dear’ husbands; the men who realize the truth too late, but that same scarcity mentality forces them to go along to get along.

The rise of Red Pill awareness of intersexual dynamics on the internet has made for a community of men who find this denial distasteful. Rather than abdicate to the imperative and their wife’s Frame they look to the Red Pill and Game for a remedy to that state. Sometimes that’s getting their wives to have sex with them more frequently or they’re looking to better themselves in a Red Pill context to gain women’s (their wives’) respect. As I’ve mentioned many times before, the Red Pill represents a threat to the Feminine Imperative keeping men ignorant of their roles in women’s Hypergamous plans. Now that threat comes to fruition in the context of men’s marriages.

One way or another, men will become aware of their role, how that man goes about dealing with it is another story. Most (being Blue Pill) abdicate and accept their powerlessness in their relationships. It’s the other men who choose not to just cope, but to reconstruct themselves that the Red Pill will have answers for.

Break Up with Your Wife

Not too long ago in various comment threads on this blog readers had a discussion about how any marriage (at least in the contemporary sense) is always founded on a Beta status for the husband. I don’t entirely agree with that assessment, but considering how the large majority of marriages are the culmination of Blue Pill conditioned men fulfilling their role as cuckolded provider for women cashing out of the sexual marketplace it’s certainly an understandable presumption. I won’t elaborate too much on the particulars, but the very act of committing to a woman monogamously implies a man (even one with an Alpha persona) is leaning towards a Beta perception. Alpha’s don’t commit to anyone but themselves, Betas are eager to commit from necessity and scarcity. The act becomes the confirmation.

If we follow this binary logic, the only solution to a man’s condition within his marriage – the only way to institute a real change – is to reject and break that commitment. Personally, I have lived out what most men would envy in my marriage for over 20 years now, so the idea of leaving Mrs. Tomassi would only seem like a good idea if I weren’t satisfied sexually, psychologically and life-wise with her. But, as I always repeat, don’t use my marriage as a benchmark. There was a point where I needed to break up with her, if only by adopting my own mental point of origin above that of hers or women in general as my own Blue Pill conditioning would expect of me.

I mentioned in the beginning of this series that married (committed) men seeking to reconstruct themselves within that context ought to read the post for the Iron Rule of Tomassi #7:

Iron Rule of Tomassi #7
It is always time and effort better spent developing new, fresh, prospective women than it will ever be in attempting to reconstruct a failed relationship. Never root through the trash once the garbage has been dragged to the curb. You get messy, your neighbors see you do it, and what you thought was worth digging for is never as valuable as you thought it was.

I mention this as a starting point because when you’re making the decision to reconstruct yourself you must ‘do it for you’. Once again, any real change always beggars the question about who you’re really changing for. Nothing is an act of unguided, unbiased, self-initiated change – there is always some ancillary influences as well as consequences. This is the crisis of motive.

However, if you find yourself awakened-while-married and you want to remake yourself, know that this change must be for yourself and not for your wife. This decision to reconstruct your life, your persona, your belief set, etc., and reject what the Blue Pill has made of you must come as a result of making yourself your mental point of origin. This ‘new you’ precludes any consideration of your wife’s interests. It must be in order for your transformation to be genuine to both yourself and those who know the ‘old’ you. As I mentioned in the last installment, the likelihood of your wife accepting your new persona is dependent on what Frame you entered that relationship with as well as what you’ve surrendered of your self-respect to her.

This is the most difficult part for Blue Pill men wanting to reconstruct themselves. Their mental point of origin doesn’t change, they want to change because they want to be “more Alpha” for their wives, not themselves. The idea is to adopt just enough Alpha that their wives turn the sex spigot back on for them, but never really internalize the Red Pill to the point that is fundamentally changes who they are. Thus, it becomes an act not unlike newbie PUAs aping the behaviors of their mentors, but never internalizing the deeper meanings of why they work or making them part of ‘who’ they are as a person.

This is what kills a man’s reconstruction before it ever starts. That change must be a self-first proposition. Your Red Pill self-work must be intrinsically rewarding because there is absolutely no guarantee that a man’s wife / girlfriend will ever reimagine him from a different perspective. Particularly if that woman entered into that marriage/LTR because she’d hoped to maintain Frame indefinitely due to him abdicating to it.

You must become Red Pill aware for the sake of knowing the larger truth, internalize it and then apply it without the pretense of believing it can be used to achieve Blue Pill ideals.

With this in mind, you must presume that you are breaking up with your wife / girlfriend. It is far better to approach your reconstruction from the idea that the Red Pill you would likely have nothing to do with a woman like your wife. If you were single man, Red Pill aware and Game savvy, would you even approach your wife knowing what you do now about her personally as well as what you know about the Feminine Imperative and how it influences her?

Your reconstruction requires a radical shift that is only possible for you by breaking up with your LTR, at least in a subconscious respect. It is important to assess what, if anything, is worth rooting through garbage for. If you approach your reconstruction by first making yourself your mental point of origin, the next step is to assume you will be breaking up with your wife. It may never come to that, but this is the gravity with which a man must come to his reconstruction. The same reasoning I mention in Rooting through Garbage applies to your reconstruction:

Even if you could go back to where you were, any relationship you might have with an ex will be colored by all of the issues that led up to the breakup. In other words, you know what the end result of those issues has been. It will always be the 800 pound. gorilla in the room in any future relationship. As I elaborated in the Desire Dynamic, healthy relationships are founded on genuine mutual desire, not a list of negotiated terms and obligations, and this is, by definition, exactly what any post-breakup relationship necessitates. You or she may promise to never do something again, you may promise to “rebuild the trust”, you may promise to be someone else, but you cannot promise to accept that the issues leading up to the breakup don’t have the potential to dissolve it again. The doubt is there. You may be married for 30 years, but there will always be that one time when you two broke up, or she fucked that other guy, and everything you think you’ve built with her over the years will always be compromised by that doubt of her desire.

You will never escape her impression that you were so optionless you had to beg her to rekindle her intimacy with you.

It is always time and effort better spent developing new, fresh, prospective women than it will ever be in attempting to reconstruct a failed relationship. This is the same rationale you will need to adopt when you transition into a new Red Pill aware persona. This is necessary because once you’ve become aware there is no going back to that previous state of ignorance. You will know what can be possible with or without your wife/LTR.

Thus, it is important to zero everything out and treat your old wife as a new prospective woman. This perspective may mean she becomes someone not worth your effort, but it might also mean she likes the prospect of a new husband. This may mean she too will have to undertake some kind of transformation in relating to a Red Pill aware husband, or it might be that this is something she never foresaw. Dread works best when a man understands the Cardinal Rule of Relationships: In any relationship, the person with the most power is the one who needs the other the least.

By adopting the mindset that you are breaking up with her you reclaim this power – you have nothing to lose and have no way of going back to unknowing the Red Pill awareness you have now. For single men I often point out that breaking up with a girl is one of the best ways to demonstrate higher value (DHV). The downside to that is that by the time you get to the point of leaving DHV isn’t what you really care about. For the reconstructing man, adopting the position that you are breaking up (or have broken up) harnesses some of this DHV.

Most women (wives) will interpret your new self-importance as some kind of phase or your reclaiming your independence (rather than her co-dependence) as some childish sulking behavior. Anticipate this. She will presume you’re ‘going your own way’ within the marriage to force her to fuck you more or to get her to comply with your Frame. This is to be expected, but watch what her initial reactions to your takeaway are. This will give you an insight into how she perceives you. If you’re predominantly Beta her response will be that you’re pouting or sulking by removing your attention. If she sees you as Alpha her response will be much more serious and you’ll get the “what’s wrong baby?” reaction. This is a good starting point in determining her genuine perception of you.

You will effectively be NEXTing your wife so be prepared for her post-NEXTing behavior-set (extinction burst behavior) in the same way you would if you dropped a plate. This will be a tough transition for men who have invested themselves emotionally in their wives. You’ll want to come back to that place of comfort, but always remember that place is one of disrespect and sexlessness.

Most men will go half-way in their reconstruction and this is usually the result of having played a game of relationship ‘chicken’. They have their bluff called because it was always a bluff to them – they never made themselves their mental point of origin so they go back to the safety of their Blue Pill disrespect. Their wives respond to the takeaway of their attention, but never really connect with being attracted to his new self-respect and self-importance. Once that woman even marginally steps up her sexual frequency – motivated by her wanting him to return to her Frame – the guy gets comfortable and wants to go back to his comfy wife while feeling validated by thinking he made a genuine change that she responded to.

You must go all the way. If you don’t, the next time you attempt to exercise your Red Pill awareness in the hope that she’ll accept the new you, you’ll be that much more laughable to her. In fact, you’ll only further cement her perception of your whiny Beta status. The first time it’s Dread, the second time it’s you being pissy.

467 comments

  1. Painful, Painful. The most difficult piece is understanding that the change absolutely be about you. It’s akin to leaving someone in the dust when they’re late. She’ll either get on board or she won’t. took me a couple of BP marriages to understand this.

  2. Very true. You’re back at ground zero, basically trying to start a new relationship with your wife. This is more the case where you entered with a blue frame — if you entered with a red/alpha frame and kind of relaxed, you have a better chance of moving through back to where you were initially. If you never were there initially, however, it really is a new relationship, because your relationship with her never had that frame to begin with. You’re looking at starting a new relationship with someone — she may balk, she may not want it, you may not want it due to knowing who she is, and so on. Many guys will shy away from that and slide right back into blue frame. In order to break that frame, you need to be in a mindset where losing the relationship is fine with you, because fixing your frame is more important — lots of guys will struggle with getting that mindset, I think, which is why so many backslide and don’t really change.

  3. Excellent post Rollo.

    After 26 years I too awakened in marriage. But with teenagers, a mortgage etc. I knew I couldnt leave. So I toughed it out. Tried to alpha up for her etc. No real improvements.

    But what is an aware but responsible man to do. He can’t go mgtow and be a good dad. It creates a huge dicohtomy. Inner conflict and angst.

    Then the epiffany. To awake for me. To truly embraced red pill.
    The only answer: Next for real the wife.

    So we broke up. Forced me to accept redpill for me. Mgtow for me.
    And she looked at the odds of a 48 year old in the smp. And she reawoke too.

    The big thing is now I dont do things for women or one woman. I do not care.
    I do things because I want to. I spend time with a worthy and only a worthy woman because I want to.

    And i met a new, feminine, supportive girl. We hit it off and moved in together.
    But she knows I am not married but mgtow in a ltr. We both know the door is right there. And I am leading not to attract her but because its my house and I run it as I want.
    And we are now, 4 years later, we are celebrating 30 years of marriage.

    Yes the new girl happens to inhabit the body of the former shrew wife.

    But its a new woman just as I am a new man.
    She accepted feminimity and rejected feminism. For her.
    I accepted masculinity. For me.

    Of all my dozens of friends we are the only rarity to do this.
    But only through brutal honesty. We Nexted. We accepted it was over.
    We did not fix us.

    As the iron rule says. Better to start over. Lay fresh groundrules with open eyes. Dont glorify or romanticize the past. Live for what you want tomorrow.

    An awakened man can only unplug by doing for him. No one else.
    Reject and actively discard the past.
    And arise fresh.

  4. And the rooting thru the garbage quote is so true.

    She left.
    I was single.
    We signed papers.
    We were done. I was alone and loving it.
    I still consider myself mgtow for the most part.

    But she changed. She came after me. She knows I will next her without hesitation.
    There is a gorillia there. We say hi to it every night, offer it a seat. Acknowledge it.
    And the tension of the gorillas watchful gaze keeps us true to our own ideals.
    She pulls the pout and the gorilla grunts to snap her out of petty manipulation.
    I get weak and ask for (instead of demand) attention the gorilla screams in my ear and pushes me off my complacent ass.

  5. To truly reset you need to break up.
    Move out.
    Be single and let that totally different mindset sink in.
    For months. Not a few days or a week.

    Look into the abyss. Only thru “death” can you really be reborn.

    Then if you both like the new versions of each other…great
    If not…move on.

  6. I’d rate this as a top 5 of all your essays rollo.
    I think you know you have fully swallowed the red pill when you drop the revenge porn fantasies of
    Getting your ex/oneitis back and having your fun before dumping her, and replace it with relief that her actions brought you here to find the truth about intersexual relationships.

    If I bumped into my ex oneitis now, I wouldn’t try to get her back ( old flame new game) I’d be tempted to thank her ( when the student is ready the teacher will arrive) but I know she wouldn’t understand so I would just handle the situation with amused mastery and wish her well for the future and let her hamster do the rest.

    Thank you Rollo.

  7. I’m so thankful for discovering RP theory a few years ago. By following the principles I’ve been able prepare for and survive a significant drop in status. My full-time job was eliminated three weeks ago. After the initial shock, I knew the worst thing I could do was go home and emotionally vomit to my wife. So I called an elder from my church, ranted to him instead, and cleared my mind before I broke the news at home that evening.

    Aldo due to RP reading, month by month I had been taking steps to make our life anti-fragile just in case something like this happened. The result is we’re in excellent financial shape, and we’ll take this event with no degradation in our standard of living for at least six months if necessary. She’s now seen first-hand my mastery at preparing for disruption.

    But most importantly, I’m also still leading her, keeping a schedule, getting things done and never wallowing in despair. I still have my monthly reserve duty which provides continuity in mission and allows me to demonstrate value by leading men. And yes, I use the free time to lift more – feels great. Just want to say thanks to the TRM community for helping me avoid unnecessary conflict and loss of frame.

  8. Major dread in my monogamous relationship.

    She’s been flipping out recently. In proportion to the dread is the intensity of her questioning and monitoring of me. Wanting to know who this girl or that girl is, constantly asking if I’m going on porn/masturbating instead of having sex with her, and here’s the real kicker:

    COMMUNICATION. She’s going with the old trope that communication is everything.

    I get pissed off at her every single time she brings this up. I haven’t quite understood why. But I think it has to do with my vague awareness that it’s bullshit.

    She wants to “communicate” in the sense that she wants me to allay any and all of her fears/insecurities, and give overt verbal declarations of my commitment to her, in order to ease her anxieties.

    It’s completely one sided, but of course she claims that she dotes on me, loves me to death and would die for me, and all this other stuff, saying she has my best interests in mind, etc.

    And of course solipsism guarantees that she doesn’t see how fucked up a thing this is to do to me. I’m the one being manipulated and taken advantage of here, and yet she continuously is telling me the opposite, that I’m cold and cruel, etc.

    And part of me feels like: GOOD. I’d rather be called “cold and cruel” than go along with this “communication” bullshit, like I owe it to her to tell her everything I do in my life.

    And the other reason I’m mad is because I’m not even remotely fucking any other girls. I’m at a huge disadvantage here and thinking about ending this relationship feels the same as looking forward to another 13+ years of incel.

    That’s a fear, naturally, I can’t communicate to her. So most of the time I just tell her she’s annoying the shit out of me and the conversation usually ends there.

    Part of TRP that’s helped me is not feeling GUILTY for this shit. You want to make yourself feel awful? Good for you. It’s not my responsibility. I have already gone above and beyond what most people would do for her, and of course absolutely none of it has been appreciated, which I expected going into it because of some RP awareness I had beforehand.

    Man, though. Being 1 on 1 with women and not having solid frame or RP awareness sucks. They will spin you in a web and eat you alive.

    Honestly I don’t think of it as malicious. I certainly don’t hate her. She’s just a woman. That’s one thing I’ll say: I get pissed off at her and annoyed with her, but I don’t HATE her. I’m just angry and annoyed.

    Very different from my Blue Pill days when my anger was much more deep seated and the roots ran a lot deeper.

  9. “If you were single man, Red Pill aware and Game savvy, would you even approach your wife knowing what you do now about her personally as well as what you know about the Feminine Imperative and how it influences her?”

    Yes! Asking this question—or even knowing that it is relevant—is key. I recently pumped-and-dumped an old LTR after realizing that if I was meeting her now for the first time, I wouldn’t be interested. She was still beautiful, but had become so hopelessly steeped in progressive, feminist, anti-Trump butthurt it was unbearable. Every word out of her mouth was femperative.

    A tour de force from you, Rollo. In fact, this whole series has been essential reading.

  10. Great post. Be your own frame of reference, and do it for yourself. Stoic philosophy mirrors the thinking here: Do what your nature requires, don’t be afraid to do those things that are natural to you, and above all, remember that all is opinion, and only your own opinion matters.

  11. @mgtowhorseman happy for you man, you’ve walked the abyss w/out a safety net and have found the other side

    Fuck it both horrifies and comforts me that I’m not the only one.

    Personally, I’ve adopted the RP over the last few years and its truth makes the hard stuff easier. Although for a long while it appeared to be working on the wife — she’s recently said we must divorce. She’s batted this around a couple of times before but this time also told our 10yro son which in my mind makes it official.

    I was a believer, I did go all in, I had faith in doing the right thing (BP). It became apparent I’m considered just a resource and not worthy of receiving the absolute best of her loyalty and devotion all the time. Rollo’s assertions about not being appreciated for the sacrifices and doing the right thing (BP) are true and have made it easy to ratchet up the aloofness and making my MPO all mine.

    I have no problem with her leaving, shit test, bluff or not. If it weren’t for my son, the shit would have hit the fan long ago. In fact, if I could pinpoint any moment when the RP within me germinated, it was when my son was a toddler and I was trying to figure out how I would be a father to him. My insight was that since children learn by watching and emulating, I would have to become the man I’d want him to be. Funny that moment when I realized I didn’t want him to grow up to be just like me at that time…. I had to become something else. At some level, I knew that something was wrong with me.

    So here I am now, still walking over the abyss, but certain in my resolve to make my way in the world like an actualized man on my own terms. If it were just for me that would be enough, but it’s also the best lesson I could ever give my son.

  12. I’ve broken up with my wife in my mind already, for those married men who are unplugging, go sit down and talk to an attorney, it was the best $100 I’ve spent in this marriage. If you know what the worst is, it’s far easier to deal with it and walk away. I’ve spent 14yrs with her, I am growing to be the man I’m supposed to be, if she wants to come along for the ride, fine, if she doesn’t like this new guy, tough for her.

  13. @mgtowhorseman I had been composing my long-winded comment after reading your first. I finally posted it and saw you also used the word ‘abyss’ to describe your adventure in subsequent comments… lol

  14. any relationship you might have with an ex will be colored by all of the issues that led up to the breakup

    Whenever I see a guy trying to rekindle things with an ex, I always wonder one thing…. WHY? You know where it led, you know everything about her – what is the point? Isn’t it better to “go where no man has gone before” – of if you can’t get one young enough for that – at least “go where you have never gone before”… Trying new things – and new women – enjoy, rinse and repeat as necessary.

    The only sad thing is eventually you realize that all women are variations on the same theme – so they are just actors in the story of your life. Your life, is about you. The things you learn and do – they all have bit parts, but really, when the narrative has moved beyond them, you have to move on too. Only a fool keeps looking back and not forward. Life is meant to be lived and enjoyed – women are the flavoring of that.

    Fortunately, Feminists have done men the greatest of services by destroying the nuclear family and having so many young women grow up in a family without a strong male presence. They all want that acceptance from an older male figure, and will do anything to get it. Enjoy that position. If someone had told me in college that I had already had sex with the oldest woman I would ever have sex with before I was out of high-school (she was 44) I would have said they were crazy – but I never took into account how successful women would be in teaching young women to experience life – and next year, there are new ones hanging up their “open for business” signs. Only a fool wouldn’t take advantage of that abundance.

    So find a way to gain access to those young women – teach at a university, or something else that brings you joy, and access to young women and never look back. Young women are like fine wine – it’s not their age, it’s the fact that you were the first to sample that batch and enjoy its flavor. Sure it changes in time, but that first drink is one they never forget and you can use all that you know to make sure they never forget, and will come back for more on your terms.

    So enjoy – it just get better as you get older. Never forget that.

  15. “There was a point where I needed to break up with her, if only by adopting my own mental point of origin above that of hers or women in general as my own Blue Pill conditioning would expect of me.”

    That right there….that was the thing I realized that kind of saved me.

    I am a 50yo OMG, and awoke at least partly over a year ago and been working on myself and reading everything in sight.

    My marriage was never bad, just not great especially sexually. One of the things I realized recently in examining my progress was that my wife actually WANTED me to be more in charge and running things. Not in a “take care of me way but do what I say” way, but more of the Alpha-like “give me an anchor for my emotionalism”. I missed a lot of queues over the years but I can see her start to relax in the relationship in ways that never would have been possible a couple of years back because of the way I was.

    I de-pedastalize her and saw her clearly at one point early last year and was willing to next her. As I worked through my own changes, I realized that in the near term anyway, I wasn’t going to be better off looking around until I at least had my foundation built, so sticking around and practicing on her was in my best interests as far as I was concerned. We liked each other, we got along, we enjoyed doing things together. I just needed to be a man.

    Are things perfect? No, but I have begun to realize that at some level my wife WANTS to take a more traditional female role, that she PREFERS this, and I think that makes a huge difference. Most of the women out there have it driven into their heads that they have to be Strong Independent Women just like men are beaten into Beta-hood. They have their own red pill to swallow.

    I don’t think she would admit it that she prefers that, not yet anyway, but the changes I have seen in her as I have finally realized a small amount of masculine maturity make me think that we might…MIGHT…shape ourselves into a more masculine/feminine relationship.

    @mgtowhorseman has it right: if you can establish the “don’t give me any shit” frame and she ACCEPTS that as where she wants to be, and you are comfortable letting the gorilla grunt, you are on the right path. I have a ways to go, but I have seen a small bit of the light.

  16. Rollo Strikes Out

    It’s the bottom of the 9th, bases loaded, two out, 3 and 2 on the batter Rollo, champion of TRM team. It’s the last and deciding game of the Reconstruction Series. Rollo’s team is one run behind (any possible future for marriage looks bleak) but a hit will win the Game.

    Marko is on the mound. He’s the oldest guy on the field. He’s played for many teams over his long career. He knows the Game.

    Rollo’s got a “Hyper-Individualist” brand bat, with a “MALE-Hypergamy” trademark burned into the wood. His plan, in this the final and deciding game, is to knock the ball of the park. He hasn’t shown this bat to teammates until this point, but can’t hide it from them any longer.

    Marko delivers the pitch! It’s a change-up!

    Rollo takes a fearless mighty swing — and misses the change-up by a foot. The ball plops into the catcher’s glove. The Mighty Rollo has struck out!

    Game to the OMGs.

    Rollo says “Wait ‘til next year!”

    Marko and the OMGs say “We will. You are a great player. We look forward to your future insights”

  17. “The Red Pill shows you the dark side of women. Not so that you will hate them but so you appreciate them for what they are, not what they’re not.”

    It’s hard to appreciate what women are when the 3 foot long, 12 inch wide cock of legal gynocentrism is hovering an inch from your anus, just waiting for your game to slip and inch. It’s good to work on ourselves, but eventually something is going to have to be done about the legal and social situation in the west as far as men and women are concerned.

  18. To truly reset you need to break up.
    Move out.
    Be single and let that totally different mindset sink in.
    For months. Not a few days or a week.
    Look into the abyss. Only thru “death” can you really be reborn.
    Then if you both like the new versions of each other…great
    If not…move on.

    This will create issues for you if you get a divorce. Claims that you have abandoned assets, abandoned children, etc. But that aside…

    You know full well she’s going to bang other men during those months. (Yes, hopefully you will bang other women, otherwise what’s the point?) So your plan is to let her cuck you. And then “if you decide you still like each other” you’re going to come back to her anyway. I don’t see this as much different from knowing she had an affair but “forgiving her and taking her back” – always a fatal mistake. Once she has banged other men, you should regard it as over forever, period.

    Yes, move out, be single, and “reset yourself” if you want. But regard that as final.

  19. :”a life-long strategy for him to fulfill the dictates of women’s Hypergamy as well as the larger scope of the Feminine Imperative.”

    “but for all of that acquiescing to their ‘fates’ what they really represent is the goal-state of men in the Feminine Imperative’s plan for their lives.”

    “It’s the other men who choose not to just cope, but to reconstruct themselves that the Red Pill will have answers for.”

    “Frame you entered that relationship with as well as what you’ve surrendered of your self-respect to her.”

    All very true and relevant at the moment…

  20. Nesting only works if in your mind you resolve to never see her again. If you’re doing it to I still dread that has a very short lifespan as well.

    If you’re constantly trying to discipline her she’s already damaged goods.

  21. I am typing this through gritted teeth…

    Marko, how the fuck did Rollo “strike out”?

    Sorry (Rollo), but Rollo is also an OMG. He’s only mentioned his age and marital status many, many, MANY times.

    And what makes you think OMGs aren’t on his “side” or vice versa? Your biggest delusion is that there’s anyone, other than many InsanityBiles, being on “your side”.

    I normally don’t bid people a curt “fuck off”, but in this case, you haven’t even added anything to the discussion (i.e. false premises for everyone else to tear apart).

    Cheers.
    (Fuck off.)

  22. “Your biggest delusion is that there’s anyone, other than many InsanityBiles, being on “your side”.”

    Quite delightful to know you’re thinking of me, even when I’m not here. I’m hardly worthy of such attention.

    It’s a good post, I think Tomassi did well. In faith I would tell men and women that you and your relationship with God must come first. For women, I sometimes say you have to put your own oxygen mask on first, when the plane is crashing. One must have an identity outside of their marriage in order to thrive and be healthy. So a metaphorical breakup, a spiritual breakup, to untangle or unplug as Tomassi says, seems rather healthy to me. It all reminds me a bit of co-dependency, too much entanglement and you can lose yourself, your very perception of the world around you becomes spouse defined and not only do you hurt yourself, you don’t do them any favors either.

    It can actually be a lot of fun in marriage to treat your spouse as a stranger, as a new love interest, to put yourself in that place of, if we weren’t married, how would we be responding to one another? One thing that’s often different is the pursuit and the chase, the seduction and investment, which are the kind of things that make marriages good.

  23. A woman finds nothing less interesting, attractive or worthy than a man who runs his life around her. Married or not. A man who does so removes all the tension of having to win his attention, of her having to worry if he’s still interested and her wondering what he’s doing.

    Yet marriage in the latter half of the 20th century was presented to me as a “service opportunity”. I was to chomp down on the fucking bit and pull. I used to do an ultra-long commute on a train into NYC. and there were several other older married guys who had been doing the same. We got to know each other really well in those hours and I’d listen to the other men bitch about their marriages. Not so much angry as hopeless, a crushed spirit flickering in their eyes. As though life was a puzzle they could not solve.

    Me too. My marriage ended because I had my little “natural” Red Pill revolution. I simply demanded better behavior or an end – she started fucking someone else. Just be ready for that too, guys. Me? I don’t think I handled it well. I over-dreaded. I didn’t provide enough comfort either, a fatal failing for me after snapping out of my Blue Pill slumber. Without the Red Pill I was unable to see where my behavior was off, and never established my own MPO. So it all just looked erratic and mean to my ex. I probably could have reset our marriage to a decent place, as later my ex and I had some interesting sexual encounters. There was still something there.

    But I didn’t embrace my masculinity. I always felt conflicted about my dominance and aggression and impulses, sexual and otherwise, even as I gave into them at times. This sends very incongruent signals out to women.

    My point? This is something to approach thoughtfully. Not emotionally. Remember, another term for “breaking up with your wife” is “divorce”.

    Re: Marko – Oh he’s just become a gem, hasn’t he? We need our Purple Pilling jackoffs to put the sad state of manhood – young and old – into stark relief. Keep at it, Marko, you exemplify a Blue Piller stuck in a loop of his own buffers so well we couldn’t have created a better example if we tried.

    I know, you are beyond all of us. And I’m merely caught up in some PUA death spiral of nihilism (actually falling in love for the first time in a very long time), and you need to feel the thrill of talking down to us. It’s a necessary tonic for your halfbaked Purple Pilling. I mean, it can’t be you – it’s us, we are all wrong. Got it. Cool. Carry on.

  24. Dr Zipper

    Although for a long while it appeared to be working on the wife — she’s recently said we must divorce. She’s batted this around a couple of times before but this time also told our 10yro son which in my mind makes it official.

    I suspect if they tables had been turned, if you were the one bringing up divorce, you would have had a different outcome. It was working up until a point you would not push… she wanted the test… wanted to know you were going to unchoose her… that you had the temerity to do so… and then she would have the hindbrain knowledge that you were her better.

    All this nexting talk, breaking up in your mind, all is just talk if you aren’t willing to lay out the options at some point, ZFG style.

  25. Scribbs

    A man who does so removes all the tension of having to win his attention, of her having to worry if he’s still interested and her wondering what he’s doing.

    Yes this exactly… Cat String Theory for ya Doc Zipper… women love the emotional pain (if they see a chance to still get the guy).

    A wise man once said the two biggest imprints on a woman are losing her virginity and childbirth. Both painful.

    Now sometimes as Dogs, we just want to chill out and not think… about anything… and all the background emotional drama can shut us down. A different kind of problem.

  26. @ Just Saying

    If a man is truly rebuilding himself, his thought patterns and his life, it would be wise to disabuse himself of the notion that young chicks are anything special. They are young, they are chicks, they’re just girls. They are not like fine wine. Some are more like vinegar. Treat accordingly and mind the gap.

    Once again, if younger is your preference it is all well and good. Just keep the gold plated pedestal safely locked away.

    In building a solid and lasting mpo, ” you ” are number one. No one is better. Others are only ever different. The only ” ideal ” is the one you create mentally.

    I’ve listened and watched for the entirety of my life, young females discuss the ” older guy ” that can be taken by young ass. Some chicks brag openly about how to work such men. I always found this curious and assumed iit would not be workable as any man with 5 active brain cells would see through this, but I’ve been proven wrong dozens of times.

    To me as a man, the notion that because of my age I’m more easily manipulated, or that I’m more prone to young pussy blindness, or even desperation is highly, highly offensive.

    Sing with me- ” you must remember this, a bitch is just a bitch…”. Lol.

    Rebuild frame and mpo solo. The sex thing will sort itself out.

  27. @mgtowhorseman, DrZipper
    To truly reset you need to break up.
    Move out.
    Be single and let that totally different mindset sink in.
    For months. Not a few days or a week.

    Being single and digesting RP/PUA after an LTR is a wonderful thing to have happened. But going back? No, not for me. There are too many different and interesting younger women out there.

    Once the limb is cut, cauterize the wound and get on with your life. It’s really not as scary as is seems. It took me 10 years to decide, and that’s 10 years wasted.

    Just do it.

  28. So on the mark! As a late 50’s man who woke up while in a 24 year marriage only five years ago, went the path of self-improvement that worked for me, but worse for the marriage…and after nexting her and initiating a divorce that was finalized the spring of last year, I would like to give some strong advice… Pass this info on to younger men so they don’t end up in situations like mine during the marriage and after. Escaping the rotting corpse of a marriage was great. The number of women interested in me, both unmarried and married, was quite flattering and I socialized much more than in the past. I did find a woman who has displayed high quality and is definitely worth keeping around as long as she behaves the way she has so far. We are both on the same page that neither one of us will ever marry again. Period. She is from southern Asia, very traditional, loves my leading and projects. We share many outside pursuits such as camping, hiking, cycling, etc. She is a great companion and a wonderful submissive lover….when my cock works….Yes, I divorced in time to discover intermittent ED. She has been very supportive of me and of my efforts to correct it…I’m not a quitter and consider it a bump in the road…the question is will she stay much longer for a ride like this one. I always keep two other women in my own “friend zone” or “bull pen” as I like to call it, so I do have options if she leaves…But I still have the ED problem. I’m doing the lifting, and after trying a variety of herbal products and Viagra (intermittent results) and embarked on a more natural course to increase thyroxine production (hypoactive thyroid) and testosterone (by diet/exercise, not creams, etc.). It takes a lot of experimentation to find what works – and a patient partner. I’m hoping the testosterone increase will work (just recently started)…and noted positive effects yesterday. For the first time in years I got really agitated with something that I would have let slide in the past. I felt a surge of mental aggression and noted that I had not felt that in years. A positive sign? Hope so. I have noted more morning wood than in the past, so hopefully on the right path.

    There may well be a mental component of a fucked-up head from so many years in a dead marriage and then full digestion of the red pill. How does one generate sexual desire leading to an erection when you think that this pretty, submissive woman could, and most likely is, another snake in the grass ready to inject venom into you? Any guys been down this mental minefield before and how did you emerge on the other side? Would like to hear of your experiences.

  29. @Just Saying
    The only sad thing is eventually you realize that all women are variations on the same theme – so they are just actors in the story of your life.

    Nicely said. This might sound cold-hearted but it’s so true.

  30. @Blaximus
    I’ve listened and watched for the entirety of my life, young females discuss the ” older guy ” that can be taken by young ass. Some chicks brag openly about how to work such men. I always found this curious and assumed iit would not be workable as any man with 5 active brain cells would see through this, but I’ve been proven wrong dozens of times.

    And I agree – they do have that special Je ne sais quoi

    @Scribb
    (actually falling in love for the first time in a very long time)

    Danger Danger Will Robinson Danger Danger

    Keep your head on straight old dude! But I would probably be doing the same thing in your situ

  31. @Cycling Cowboy

    Yes, I divorced in time to discover intermittent ED.

    Yeah, life is a bitch ain’t it. You get old and your dick dies. At 58 this happened to me for this first time a couple of weeks ago. Cialis might be an anwser in the long run.

    Happened once then everything popped right back after I made some mental adjustments with the current girl.

    How does one generate sexual desire leading to an erection when you think that this pretty, submissive woman could, and most likely is, another snake in the grass ready to inject venom into you

    In my case 2 things. First, I’m pretty certain I’ll never be in a financially vulnerable position for as long as I live – I’m too close to retirement for that (but someone like Scribbs gf might change my mind). So that sword over my head is no longer a concern.

    Second, I regard the woman before me as my playground. I’ll put up with her nonsense as long as I’m able to get what I want. The ED episode may have had more to so with me not getting over the last women when getting it on with the next. Once that was settled then all systems were go. She’s 52 and not much to look at but has then body of a 30yo. So that helps.

  32. @Blaximus: “To me as a man, the notion that because of my age I’m more easily manipulated, or that I’m more prone to young pussy blindness, or even desperation is highly, highly offensive.”

    Consider that is because you are you, and that the young professionals know their business.

  33. Cycling cowboy, I’m with you on that. 27 year marriage that ended 4 years ago. I look at women these days as spoiled rotten princesses at best and outright vampires at worst. This has been my struggle with wanting to even get involved again, so I’ve spent time working on myself developing my MPO. Not exactly mink mode, I’ll still chat up some attractive women, I just can’t make that leap of trust.

  34. This is a tricky series (The Reconstruction) to understand. It requires quite a bit of contextual understanding of what red pill awareness is and what misguided blue pill ideals are.

    It is difficult for Rollo to actually be prescriptive and even when when wading in that direction, it gets into the infinite space of various relationships.

    The comments at Married Red Pill Reddit are off to a good start on the OP (Reconstruction 4). (and witness the Victim vs. Do the Work of Reconstruction back and forth).

    Scribbler typed:

    My marriage ended because I had my little “natural” Red Pill revolution. I simply demanded better behavior or an end – she started fucking someone else. Just be ready for that too, guys. Me? I don’t think I handled it well. I over-dreaded. I didn’t provide enough comfort either, a fatal failing for me after snapping out of my Blue Pill slumber. Without the Red Pill I was unable to see where my behavior was off, and never established my own MPO. So it all just looked erratic and mean to my ex. I probably could have reset our marriage to a decent place, as later my ex and I had some interesting sexual encounters. There was still something there.

    This indicates that before the breakup, he was not fearless of the breakup. I assume he was teeming with fear of losing her and his invested relational equity (and built up rage for lack of reciprocal admiration and respect and desire with Blue Pill Idealism). He wasn’t Stoic or unemotional with low downside and high upside like Seneca the Younger. Demanding rather than leading out of fear.

    This by Rollo is hard to understand and reflects that:

    Your reconstruction requires a radical shift that is only possible for you by breaking up with your LTR, at least in a subconscious respect….

    …If you approach your reconstruction by first making yourself your mental point of origin, the next step is to assume you will be breaking up with your wife. It may never come to that, but this is the gravity with which a man must come to his reconstruction.

    [Granted I’m different (because I didn’t get through a Red Pill Reconstruction through desperation and frustration but by inspiration and inspiration), but I get the feeling of a virtual mindset transformation through stoic thought, not emotion. And being “different” I actually have been able to get by with “Virtual” use of Plate Theory and “Virtual” Breaking up with my LTR. I firmly believe this because perception is reality. I went through that emotionally and worked through it thoughtfully, and it worked. And as we speak, She came Around. So I’m a believer.]

    I can tell you what I went through. And all those emotions did present themselves to me: fear of loss, lack of admiration and respect, fear of being my true self, fear of doing the hard work to get to more Alpha, being independent in my MPO, fear of “this is no fun”, etc. But I was able to shoot those fear based emotions down one by one and proceed according the script I wrote myself which was Game based. I was accepting of any downside and aware that if correctly done there is parabolic upside.

    One has to accept that some things are not in your control, and that includes the LTR not coming around in the end. And being comfortable with the outcome in the end. The only thing any of us have power over is ourself. (Lol, that’s actually not true, but it sounds proper in this context….)

    Some men either picked the wrong woman for an LTR by missing clues that were present all along, or screwed up on his part in his alpha burden-of-performance. In either case, a man has to not be afraid to admit his failings. And not have expectations that everything will always work out. They may or may not. Accept that.

    I agree with Scribbler (in comments) and Rollo (in the OP). A man proceeds with fearlessness and works on himself to get to where he should be with complete Red Pill awareness and Game (as needed).

    Scribbler: “My point? This is something to approach thoughtfully. Not emotionally.”
    I say Amen to that. That’s Stoicism.

    “No man can be fulfilled unless he has ceased searching for release (ed. most often done improperly with Buffers, instead of already having freedom from constraint in place most of the time via Mastery and Sovereignty.) and is founded in the present relaxation of radiant love (edited to:) Having Mindset and Mastery like Blaximus or KFG.

    When a man is founded in true Being, he is no longer afraid to lose his woman, nor is he afraid of losing himself in relationship with a woman. –Deida in Intimate Communion

    My context of “true Being” is in having Done the work of making himself the best representation of himself and being in a state of Red Pill Awareness, as well as grounded in Acceptance of How things Are. A caveat, though, don’t try this at home if you are at least in the Competence phases of Mastery (conscious or unconscious) of who you are and what you want to be. It doesn’t play out well if you are in the Incompetent phases of Mastery (unconscious or conscious) for yourself.

  35. KFG, scribb’s in mink mode. (ala Michael Douglas to Sharon Stone in that movie that I can’t remember the name of)

  36. How does one generate sexual desire leading to an erection when you think that this pretty, submissive woman could, and most likely is, another snake in the grass ready to inject venom into you?

    If you want to fuck her, fuck her. If you don’t want to fuck her, don’t. Little head follows big head: when big head is clear, little head has a hard time; when big head is muddled, little head is a softy too.

  37. The criticality of making yourself your own mental point of origin: when you are congruent, women will let you – no, demand – you grab them by the pussy.

  38. Thanks for the adivice. Case #1 is already taken care of…my financials are in no one’s reach. Case #2…I think that is a vestige Blue Pill conditioning I need to need to squash. Yes, my playground…

  39. “Michael Douglas to Sharon Stone in that movie that I can’t remember the name of”

    By the time I got around to seeing it I’d heard so much about it that I ended up a bit disappointed. A well made, but basically conventional crime drama/thriller.

  40. @Softek

    COMMUNICATION. She’s going with the old trope that communication is everything.

    This means something to her. This is an actual signal to you, but it’s not about direct communication like we’ve been told. Your girl is giving you signals and you’re missing them. She wants comfort/validation, likely. Maybe you’ve been too aloof and haven’t given her enough time.

  41. @Sentient “… if you were the one bringing up divorce, you would have had a different outcome…”

    Yes, but I’ve never been pushing for divorce. My goal was to change myself, the wife/marriage goes thru a rough patch of adjustment, and my family is intact and healthy. Not into playing the bluff game or trying to get her to back down. I prefer the straightforward “this is me, take it or leave it” approach.

    It didn’t work. I’ve changed but she’s not along for the ride. True, she may just not be convinced that my change is permanent. My take is that she prefers a BP man she can control and plays by the rules. Not my problem anymore.

    I’m actually kind of excited. When I get her out of my life and my son’s situation has settled, all this vicarious living I’ve been doing thru many of the men here will become mine for real. It’s one thing to try and repair an airplane while it’s flying, but if I can just get on a whole new plane (hehe) of my choosing then that old broken thing is somebody else’s problem to fix.

  42. Maybe she is a bottomless pit of comfort/validation want who interprets glancing out the window for a second as abandonment.

  43. Exactly… That mental point of origin can be a slippery thing until it firmly gels in the mind…About a week ago this girl friend was bitching about Trump (yes, she was a Hillary supporter-maybe that is the mental issue). I laughed it off and grabbed her by the pussy, literally…gave her a fingering orgasm while she was standing…well, I was holding her up and had to keep her from falling to the floor in the process. Then gave her a thorough pounding. It was awesome, but those events seem to come (pardon the pun) every other time. Still working on sorting it out…

  44. ” . . . if I can just get on a whole new plane (hehe) of my choosing then that old broken thing is somebody else’s problem to fix.”

    If it floats, flys or fucks . . .

  45. Oh Gawd kfg, that was my situation regarding my now ex-wife. Deeply and profoundly insecure. Daughter of an alcoholic father who died when she was a second grader.
    I feel really bad for her now since she is old and has gotten fat and basically has given up on life.
    All I really wanted for her was some happiness, but I came to realize it was at my own expense. That’s what we’re supposed to do as men, right? Sacrifice our own lives?
    I just kept thinking about Thoreau- Most men lead lives of quiet desperation, and go to the grave with the song still in them. Didn’t want to be that guy.

  46. @Rollo

    Nice artwork,like the definition of insanity or hitting oneself in the head with a hammer to disabuse himself of the gynocentric FI.

    After digesting the “red pill” praxeology and spending enough time reading comments.
    The reconstruction is done on my own MPO,rather than the relationship,as you say end the relationship if only subconciosly.

    When the wife showed her renewed interest in me sexualy and the sex returned to a pasionate level of 8,like a man wandering through the desert and stumbling upon a water hole the temptation is to stay there and soak it up.This must be avoided for me as the tender blue pill trap,where the water runs out and nothing is left but a stinking stagnent mudhole.

    I must return to my own MPO,this is how I stumbled on the water in the first place.

    Time to get out there and push toward my goals.While doing this I find that I have reentered the secret society,once again becoming the object of desire, DPA shining off me like the sun.This in itself is addictive and becomes another threat unto itself.I must remember how I got here and return to my MPO.

    This is when I need to reread TRM or some Blaximus to refocus and get back to my mission goals.They are just women.

  47. @Softek

    “COMMUNICATION. She’s going with the old trope that communication is everything.”

    “This means something to her. This is an actual signal to you, but it’s not about direct communication like we’ve been told. Your girl is giving you signals and you’re missing them. She wants comfort/validation, likely. Maybe you’ve been too aloof and haven’t given her enough time.”

    She’s actually just following her script of female stages of manipulation.

    See The Script here:

    https://therationalmale.com/2016/07/18/are-you-experienced/comment-page-2/#comment-163929

    Seeking Communication “Open up to me, please.”

    Once a woman has tested the male, and is relatively sure that he is strong enough to serve her purposes, her concern begins to revolve around making the man serve her exclusively. Many men who are relatively strong and pass the tests of the first stage, fail to understand the meaning of this second stage. This stage is extremely difficult for the average man to detect. It is instinctually and often unconsciously masked by the woman as a purely innocent attempt to “communicate” with the male.

    It is a feature of the feminine psyche to appreciate communication above all else, but from an evolutionary point of view what the female of our species is really doing at this stage is using language to befuddle her partner, which will hopefully cause him to serve her and her purposes.

    This stage is extremely important to the success or failure of couple relationships. Couple therapy fails so frequently because it tends to disregard the real, evolutionary meaning of this stage. A very common pitfall for couples is when the woman starts to feel that the man is displaying an inability or unwillingness to “communicate properly” with the woman. Modem couples therapy almost invariably places the blame for this supposed lack of communication squarely on the man’s shoulders.

    In the first stage, the woman has screened out the weaker males; the man was specifically chosen by the woman for a relationship. In this second stage, the woman acts as if she is seeking deeper communication with the man. A strong man will start to sense that an attempt is being made to weaken him, and he will then usually react with certain predictable behavior patterns. He may get angry or he may withdraw. Arguments that seem to the man to be based on nothing logical at all will often occur at this stage.

    Failure at this stage means next comes: Putting Him to Work. Then Female Evolutionary Selfishness and then Female Self Determination.

    So don’t Fail here Softek and for gods sake don’t get her pregnant.

    Putting Him to Work

    “Honey, please take out the trash and wash the cat, and please hurry!” When and if a man opens himself emotionally up to a woman — in the sense of what we discussed in the preceding subsection — from that point onwards the woman effectively owns the frame of the relationship.

    Female Evolutionary Selfishness

    “I am never satisfied no matter what you do or how hard you try.” This stage begins once the woman has succeeded in having her formerly-strong male open up to her emotionally. In this stage, any communication with her male partner is only for the purpose of deriving something useful for her and her children.

    Female Self-Determination

    “I am full grown, independent woman now.” Of course, the female in the relationship never was a “little girl.” In the self-determination stage, however, another double bind — even more powerful than the preceding — will be thrown at the male. Once he starts to seek out the emotional communication that she had been asking for all along, she will begin to express sentiments such as she is feeling oppressed, or that the man is boring, or that he is too nice, or that he doesn’t understand her, and so on. Again, the usual effect of such feminine expressions on the man is bewilderment, shame and guilt. If at this point the man decides that he does not care at all about what she says or does, she will assert that “he is not a loving husband/boyfriend” or “I cannot live with him because he does not understand me,” or “I do not feel anything for him anymore,” or “sex without communication is a turn off”; once again inducing some very negative feelings within the man.

  48. @SJF

    Your Feb 4 7:05 post is one of your best. This part: “picked the wrong woman for an LTR by missing clues that were present all along” is particularly painful to take. Nothing was hidden from me, it was all right there to be observed and understood. I know my ignorance isn’t my fault, but I am still accountable and responsible for it.

    Reviewing the past with a RP lens makes me cringe and it’s hard to put yourself thru the wringer like that. But looking at the undeniable failings and fuckups I’ve unwittingly done is a necessary part of the molting process.

    I am not mad at her (ok, maybe a little). She’s just doing what a woman does. Most of the anger was at myself for being such a chump.

  49. @SJF

    She’s actually just following her script of female stages of manipulation.

    Nope. See my explanation. It’s a real midbrain signal, not cortical manipulation.

  50. Dr Zipper

    Yes, but I’ve never been pushing for divorce. My goal was to change myself, the wife/marriage goes thru a rough patch of adjustment, and my family is intact and healthy. Not into playing the bluff game or trying to get her to back down. I prefer the straightforward “this is me, take it or leave it” approach.

    How about learning some German Doc? You are going to need it more than ever going forward.

    “This is me, Take it or leave it” is not leading… it’s forcing a choice on her and women don’t like to choose… they like to be chosen. They like being led. In a word, it was a weak approach. This is the lesson. Not how to get her back or anything like that. This approach will keep failing with other girls.

    Now you say your woman is different right? AWALT or no?

    My take is that she prefers a BP man she can control and plays by the rules.

    Sure she does… she probably says so… until someone comes along and grabs her by the pussy….. right? AWALT all the way down… The rest is just figuring out why you don’t understand what she is saying…

    It’s not them. It’s you.

    Take it to heart in your second go round.

  51. ASD Softek SJF

    It’s a real midbrain signal, not cortical manipulation.

    She wants comfort/validation, likely.

    Most likely it is not comfort or validation it is resolution she is seeking. She wants to know where she stands with Softek. Since he doesn’t address it full on, and actually go out and bang other girls, she is stuck in between. Fearing he is seeing other women while seeing the chance to still lock him in.

    She wants to know her place in the pecking order. He isn’t leading and putting her in her place. Fear. Once she is in her place and trusts he is real, she can acclimate herself to it, staying with him if he really is her highest value option, moving on if not.

  52. This a fair characterization of Rollo’s Reconstruction:
    –Man does exactly what he wants to do, when he wants to, with whom he wants to:
    This is hyper-individualism.
    –Man maximizes the quality of his sexual partner(s) or LTR marriage partner(s).
    The is Male Hypergamy, similar in fact to Female Hypergamy.

    In any system (individual, relationship, or social), a maximizing strategy may work in the short run, but will almost always lead to a catastrophic fail in the longer run. Not a good Long Game.
    (Infinite amount of evidence to support this principle: biographical, historical, financial, biological).

    TRM presents vast quantity of right-on-target praxeology.
    TRM presents great insights (actionable) with regard to the FI, MPoO, Betaization, Genuine Desire, etc.
    These parts of TRM are gold!

    I don’t think this maximizing strategy is an essential part of Red Pill. Is it?

  53. Addendum:
    @ Softek

    I neglected to validate what ASD said and I agree with: “Your girl is giving you signals and you’re missing them. She wants comfort/validation, likely. Maybe you’ve been too aloof and haven’t given her enough time.”

    You are going to have to give that comfort and validation if you want the relationship to continue. You are playing relationship game. And yes you are trying to play the aloof card. (Which your comments to us here privately show is incongruent/inauthentic with who you really are. ) And it’s no wonder, therefore she is unleashing a barrage of shit tests. She senses something is not right and she instintively will test harder and harder until she senses she can trust your Frame.

    You can’t just sledge-hammer your way through this “how things are” moment with more red pill and more/better Game.

    Children need a parents love and girlfriends need a mans love. Or at some point they can’t take it any more and lash out or check out (and more likely both).

    You might not know how to manage that just now. But it does need addressing.

  54. @Sentient

    I get the “it’s me, not them” and I’m fine with the fact that she’s just like every other woman.

    You’re spot on with the leading thing and I acknowledge that deficiency. What I’d like are some tips on is reconciling the MPO, which to me means “take it or leave it,” and giving comfort and leading. Giving comfort and leading seem to conflict w/ the ZFG attitude and I have trouble knowing how to mix them all together and/or when to emphasize one or the other.

    I believe the wife/marriage is not salvageable at this point so moving forward with other women and certainly not making the same goddamn mistakes is paramount.

    Didn’t understand the ‘learning some German’ statement.

    Thanks for the feedback.

  55. @ASD

    “Nope. See my explanation. It’s a real midbrain signal, not cortical manipulation.”

    My last post was conceived after I read your last. I agree with your take on the situ.

    And I think Sentient is on to something, yet Softek doesn’t have the motive or opportunity for Fear Factor game at this juncture. Mostly due to lack of former experince and current Mastery. This is not a criticism. It merely a subjective observation by me.

  56. Sorry, my cellphone and me

    “My last post was conceived before I read your last.” I do agree with the ASD take on the situ.

  57. “I don’t think this maximizing strategy is an essential part of Red Pill. Is it?”

    An automobile which does not contain sufficient energy to do considerable violence is just a crappy paperweight.

  58. There is one consideration you didn’t mention and that’s keeping a wife who hasn’t completely accepted your new frame as a purely business decision. Perhaps she otherwise is great with the kids, keeps the house clean and cooks, and the cost of a divorce and disruption to the children’s raising is high.

  59. @Carlos:

    The pre-Romantic, traditional marriage you describe ( dead in social paradigm and law) required that a man have three women for it to work:

    A maid, a wife and a mistress.

  60. “You will never escape her impression that you were so optionless you had to beg her to rekindle her intimacy with you.”

    So true. Its worth noting as well that in reconstruction other relationships (long friends, coworkers, family members) may have to be divorced in a sense as well. The wife/LTR isn’t the only one who has an impression of you that is rigid – and will effort tirelessly to hold you to that.

    My intermittent monk modes have been inspired, in no small part, due to the blue-pill gravity of those relationships that just can’t seem to deal with someone breaking from their idea of who you are. That, and the seeming shortage of men who are even partially awake. But I sense it is getting better out there, or perhaps I am getting better at being out there.

    Interestingly, and perhaps conversely, I’ve had occasion to re-connect with a handful of old (7-8 years back) professional relationships through a new opportunity I am pursuing. Even though those relationships were forged during a particularly difficult and very blue-pill period of my life (right before it all imploded), through my recent conversations with them I learned that their impression of me was of much higher regard than I had given myself.

    I’d spent so much time in my red pill postmortem, carving out all of those slugs of cringe-worthy moments, that I failed to give myself credit where it was due. Its easy, at least for me, to get too binary. Sure I was blue-pill, running the goodman script hard, which is bitter and stomach churning to recollect, but I was a good man, and those qualities are still there. Which ties into:

    @Dr. Zipper
    “Most of the anger was at myself for being such a chump.”

    This. The self-loathing that often accompanies the RP awakening and subsequent transition is no joke. In the podcast with Rollo this past week he mentioned this anger and how it’s not about “hating women” or being “angry at women” but is in fact the result of knowing that we’ve allowed so much of our precious lives to be determined by others, something *else* that is neither based on truth or our best interest – and on a deeper level, the best interest of our other relationships as well. The hate is inward.

    Waking up comes with the price of knowing that we were party to this; our own complacency made us complicit in our enslavement. The challenge then becomes what to do with this anger, as it certainly can be directed at women. Or anything else external, really. For me, the next step was to not fall into the victim role, but instead to use that anger as a kind of energy, a motivation to create change, which is something that still takes some effort.

    The “killing the beta” series was essential. Part of what saved me from digging through the trash was that when going back she isn’t the only one who would see me in that old impression. The cringe-worthy memories of my old blue-pill self ended up being a powerful prophylactic against going back to her – or any of the women since. Now, its not just going back to her, but going back period, to any woman, but more importantly, back to him. That f*cking pussy who was once me.

    So if a moment of weakness causes me to drift back to him, I kick him in where his balls should have been and get back to work. Off to the gym, hoping to hit the bag in time to see the yoga class finishing up.

  61. Without a doubt one of the best – if not the best – posts in RM history. And the graphic of the guy beating his head against the wall is perfect. Pro tip: I was that guy… Don’t be him.

    The head banging won’t stop until you can fully internalize being your own mental point of origin. It’s easy to understand it intellectually. It won’t be internalized though until you are mentally and emotionally ready to take the leap of faith and “break up” exactly as written. Really, this is the final exam.

    In my case, I tried it all: Got in superior physical condition, changed up the wardrobe, implemented dread, etc. I would hopefully wait (almost like a dog waiting for a doggy treat) for any positive change in the wife’s behavior… Nothing.

    And that’s precisely because I was still playing in her frame, hoping my action would result in her reaction. So, what changed? I got to the point where I was ready and prepared to walk. Hired a divorce lawyer. Started openly flirting with women, picked up one or two even. I finally realized I had become quite the Alpha badass and there was a whole new world opening up to me. I could actually create real desire in other women.

    And not long after that personal and long overdue inflection point, the wife’s legs opened up as well. To give you an idea of the extreme change in bedroom behavior:

    Then: I think someone here posted a link to a sex column about a woman explaining that having sex with her beta husband felt as uncomfortable and unpleasant as being raped. That was sure my experience. Absolutely soul crushing. Tense. Arms crossed across her chest. Totally repulsed by me. I actually used to catch her grimacing. Fucking awful.

    Now: I come home from a business trip. She’ll walk in the bedroom and say almost plaintively, “I really need you to do me tonight.” Her body now undulates beneath me. She moans. She’s entirely receptive. Her legs wrap tightly around me. She holds on to my biceps, grabs my chest. I pull her hair, smack her ass. She’s suddenly become so loud that I’m actually worried our teen children will hear us… But she doesn’t fucking care. After a particularly rigorous session a while back she lies there breathing heavily afterwards and says, “God, I just want to have sex with you all the time.”

    Some other fun observations…

    Recently came in on the tail end of a conversation between my wife and another couple (beta husband) about something in their marital dynamic… Didn’t hear what it was about… Only heard my wife replying, “Oh, not Jeremy, he’s a total asshole… He’d never do something like that for me.” All three of them look at me like they’ve been caught. I just look back at them with the faintest of smirks and say nothing. And the crazy thing? My wife has this unmistakable gleam in her eye…

    Peace on the homefront… At long last… Sweet, glorious peace. Only the occasional shit test these days. She’s become quite agreeable and pleasant to be around. We laugh, we talk, we have fun. I actually catch her looking at me out of the corner of my eye sometimes these days and it’s now a look of pride, not disgust. And when she does start getting bitchy for an extended period?… That’s my signal… Business trip!

    Her sudden embrace of masculinity and even many ideas of the manosphere: Probably the biggest surprise of all. This was a woman who was a pretty hard core feminist. Unquestionably an “alpha” in her own right, very strong, very self-assured (so I really had an uphill battle). Slowly but surely I’ve started dropping little red pill nuggets on her – e.g. how disgusting I thought the women’s protest was… The occasional observation about a particularly beta husband, etc. And suddenly I hear her parroting back the same things I’ve been sharing with her in conversations with her friends and other couples as if she’s just suddenly come to these conclusions on her own.

    Bottom line: You can greatly compress the timeline of this journey when you internalize the most important rule. Don’t just intellectualize it. I beat my head against the wall for FIVE LONG YEARS doing everything but the one thing that was absolutely necessary: Make yourself your own mental point of origin… Whatever it takes. Flirt, sexualize conversations with other women. I’m not saying cheat (I don’t really have any desire to anymore), but be open to the possibility. Be open to the possibility of divorce.

    Once your psyche internalizes that you ARE sexually attractive to other women, its like a switch gets flipped on: Every other strategy, tactic, routine, behavior will naturally fall into place… Before long, you won’t even be conscious of them anymore.

  62. @Cycling Cowboy – ED… Try a hit or two of good, mellow weed for the old twig and berries before going the Cialis route. Makes mine stand at attention every time, and the sex is often downright majestic.

  63. @dr zipper

    This also jumped out at me from SJF’s comment.

    This part: “picked the wrong woman for an LTR by missing clues that were present all along” is particularly painful to take.

    I’ll wager this is true for many married men here. Part and parcel of learning from TRM is playing back your own old movies inside your head. Some of the signs were so blatant in retrospect that one does feel the fool. I was close, SO CLOSE, to recognizing some of the signs before sealing the deal. But of course close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.

    The only thing to do is keep moving forward.

  64. Withdrawing attention conditionally upon acceptable behavior, lack of intimacy, etc, etc…..it just seems like a perpetual regimen of punishment for an insolent child. Silent negotiation for affection, then arguments, then silent treatment. It’s not worth it.
    No intimacy or sex for months on end. I’m her girlfriend.
    Ive started not to care anymore about the outcome of all of this.

    I probably wouldn’t. If it were today I would not even approach her.
    I’m leaving Sunday for a week on business to Central America.
    Maybe I’ll miss my return flight and stay a few extra days. Hit the beach. Go fishing.
    For me.

  65. Razor wire, couldn’t agree more with your 9:42 am post. This is almost exactly where I am as well.

  66. @Marko: optimal male reproductive strategy is to inseminate as many females as possible while relying on other males, overtly (eunuchs, clientem) or covertly (taxes), to support the female pre- and post-parturition as well as the subsequent offspring.

    Being one’s own mental point of origin is tangential to male reproductive strategy. Or, if you prefer, MPO can inform a male’s reproductive actualization but does not dictate it.

  67. Re: Cheating.

    Personally I don’t agree with cheating. My philosophy iis that if you must cheat, are driven to cheat due to sexual dissatisfaction within marriage, it’s probably time to kill it if it cannot be changed in your favor.

    However…..

    Men married over time have doubts. Doubts about what women they could actually bed. Whether they could actually have another ” strange ” female desire them.

    I think guys need to do all in their power to prove to themselves that they are indeed sexually desirable to other females. This requires the active implementation of game regularly.

    As far as the cheating part… Lol…I don’t judge other men in that regard.

    Marriage under the old set of books implied sex from your partner. I don’t recognize any other arrangement and therefore am not bound by it. If a woman decided to reneg on her portion of the agreement, a man is no longer bound by any aspects of the original agreement. Full stop. What happens next is not cheating.

    It is important that married men continue to interact with women in a masculine manner outside of marriage. This way you won’t forget who you are….and neither will your wife.

    Right now, sitting on my couch drinking coffee, I know 2-3 women I could definetly, without question, bang tonight with very little muss or fuss. I don’t plan on doing anything, but it’s always a good thing to actively realize. Like the spare tire in my trunk. I know its there and full of air, so I dont have to fret.

    Just because a man marries he should never give up ownership of his sexuality. Ever. To anyone. He can decide to exclusively share it, but he ultimately owns it always. This crazy shit about women having the pussy, so they make the rules, makes me laugh until my sides hurt. Gtfoh with that bullshit.

    Go rule somebody that’s willing to be ruled.

  68. “–Man maximizes the quality of his sexual partner(s) or LTR marriage partner(s)…..I don’t think this maximizing strategy is an essential part”

    Marko, I think marriage is vital, necessary, there are genuine fruits there, it has tremendous value. Nobody should casually toss their marriage away. But even in that context, shouldn’t you be maximizing yourself, and maximizing your sexual partner in the process? To not maximize any experience sounds kind of sad, like never reaching and enjoying your full potential. A kind of death really, and in the process you will eventually destroy your spouse, too.

    So, so many women divorce and say “I just don’t love him anymore” but they don’t mean that at all, they mean he doesn’t love HIMSELF anymore, and so by extension, I now can’t love myself either.

    “Man does exactly what he wants to do, when he wants to, with whom he wants to”

    Sounds potentially selfish and dangerous, doesn’t it? That’s why I keep bugging Tomassi about values, morals, because that’s what shapes what you “want” to do. But in a relationship, the wanting is what makes it worthwhile, you want to be there, you want to maximize it, you want to enjoy it, you want to try new things. Marriage as this endless cross to bear, this never ending sacrifice, this place you go to die, is just painful and tragic.

  69. @ kfg

    “Maybe she is a bottomless pit of comfort/validation want who interprets glancing out the window for a second as abandonment.”

    This is what it feels like to me. On the flip side, I might need much more time by myself than the average person. I have no reference so for all I know her needs/clinginess is par for the course in a relationship, and I just don’t have the experience to know how to deal with it appropriately, or how much exactly I’m willing to accommodate.

    @ Sentient

    “Most likely it is not comfort or validation it is resolution she is seeking. She wants to know where she stands with Softek. Since he doesn’t address it full on, and actually go out and bang other girls, she is stuck in between. Fearing he is seeing other women while seeing the chance to still lock him in.

    She wants to know her place in the pecking order. He isn’t leading and putting her in her place. Fear. Once she is in her place and trusts he is real, she can acclimate herself to it, staying with him if he really is her highest value option, moving on if not.”

    Sounds accurate. She saw me with a younger girl who was all over me and freaked out. When I said it was nothing she calmed down but she really wanted to know who she was and if I was cheating on her, etc.

    It was just some random girl at my friend’s place, and she was really drunk and was rubbing my shoulders and touching my head and my legs and flirting with me for like an hour. On stream on the Internet. I didn’t know my friend was streaming. Of course she managed to find it somehow and tuned it for the whole show.

    That just intensified her fears that I’m seeing other women and not being honest with her. When I just told her it was nothing and she was drunk and I’m not cheating on her, she calmed down.

    The constant asking about my interest in other women and if I’m going to dump her or not gets pretty annoying. But there’s also my fear that if I do bang other women I’ll lose this relationship.

    Being in the relationship does feel like it’s helping my business, by keeping me leveled out. The sex is great, in proportion to how much more dominant I’ve strived to be in bed. I’m not a dirty talker by nature but since I’ve implemented some of that it’s definitely gotten more intense. She even flat out told me the day after she loves it when my voice gets lower and I say degrading things to her and how much it turns her on. So I’m trying to do more with that, and having a lot of fun with it.

    But it helps with business. I was so obsessed with sex before I couldn’t focus on anything, and tortured myself thinking I’d die a virgin.

    Now I’m just torturing myself thinking I might never fuck another girl in my life, lol. The more you get, the more you want. But it’s nowhere near the level of obsession as when I was incel. I’m getting my rocks off enough to keep my head above water and she definitely doesn’t slack in bed. When we have sex I feel like she’s my personal porn star.

    I’m getting a TINY taste of agency. When I’m backed up with work, and spend all day working, then go over to her place really late at night or early in the morning, have great sex, go to sleep, and then leave in the morning, I feel like, “I could get used to this.”

    Of course she thinks I’m a selfish prick for coming over so late all the time and only seeing her when my schedule is cleared up, like I’m done working, done hanging out with my friends, etc., but it makes me happy, and happier to see her, because I’m seeing her on my terms.

    So there’s a lot that’s fucked up, but also a lot that’s good, and a lot I’ve been learning about agency and the Platinum Rule.

  70. Dr. Zipper

    What I’d like are some tips on is reconciling the MPO, which to me means “take it or leave it,” and giving comfort and leading. Giving comfort and leading seem to conflict w/ the ZFG attitude and I have trouble knowing how to mix them all together and/or when to emphasize one or the other.

    MPO is you doing you for you. Another way to frame it The Platinum Rule [do whatever you want to do whenever you want to do it]. and that is a great frame and that frame can by and of itself result in great success with women… However what will take all the mystery and inconsistency out of your dealing with women, particularity of a sexual intent, is understanding the language that they are speaking.

    They are speaking Cat-onese… Cat language

    Didn’t understand the ‘learning some German’ statement.

    I often use German as an example because it is easier for non German speakers to understand the concept… of how difficult German can be… “rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz”* is an example. Yes that is one word… If you speak German it is not hard, it is quite precise, as German is… but as a non native speaker it is not easy to “just get it”.

    moving forward with other women and certainly not making the same goddamn mistakes is paramount.

    Cat language is hard for dogs (men) to learn… it is illogical and mysterious. But it is just as precise as German is… GAME is the female language of seduction… It is a verbal and physical language. It is precise, but requires study, immersion, and success goes up depending upon your fluency in the language. GAME allows dogs to “just get it”. Move forward – be your MPO and follow the Platinum Rule – but when it comes to dealing with women make sure you are listening and speaking their language…

    And then don’t beat yourself up for all the years you didn’t know German… No one taught it to you so how could you know? Germans don’t even come out of the womb speaking it…

    *”the law for the delegation of monitoring beef labeling.” Get it? Good.

  71. Great comments all around, by the way. Doing my best to keep up with everything. It feels like a good sign to me that I’ve spent some time away from RM, because I’ve been busy living my life. When I hit a slump and get confused I know where I can go for some answers and advice. Thanks again as always to all the replies, always helps me tremendously. And great post as usual Rollo, glad to see this place still going strong.

  72. @IB
    Continually getting better as a man (or as a woman, if you are a woman) is what the healthy Red Pill is all about. “Don’t wish it were easier, make yourself better.”
    That’s different from the maximizing strategy.

  73. Softek

    That just intensified her fears that I’m seeing other women and not being honest with her. When I just told her it was nothing and she was drunk and I’m not cheating on her, she calmed down.

    The constant asking about my interest in other women and if I’m going to dump her or not gets pretty annoying.

    You saying it is nothing is hurting your situation not helping it. She wants it to be something, she knows her value relative to other women and she is ok with it. But she can’t get real comfort from your lies… That is what it is to her a lie.

    It would be better to do what you say (non monogamous) and then you can give her comfort, she might not be the only one but at least she is among them… There is the comfort “babe, I like what we have here and value you, seeing you. If that isn’t enough for you that’s OK too.”

    BAM – Doc Zipper that is leading. That is living in your MPO. That is not dodging the questions and acting differently from what you are saying.

    Oddly – to women, they can deal with this, the pecking order. Again if you are her highest value option. If not she will move on. She can also move on if you are clear you are completely unattainable.

    Now I’m just torturing myself thinking I might never fuck another girl in my life, Yeah this is the reason you don’t do it. Fear. Scarcity mindset.

  74. Jeremy

    Nice man. You should be an inspiration to guys here… Most will sign up for this here:

    In my case, I tried it all: Got in superior physical condition, changed up the wardrobe, implemented dread, etc. I would hopefully wait (almost like a dog waiting for a doggy treat) for any positive change in the wife’s behavior… Nothing.

    They are down with it. Starving themselves, tough mudding, Xfitting, 5ks… paleo yadda yadda. The more grueling the better. The straining, the yoke, the burden… MMSL forum full of a thousand of these guys, all making progress on their MAP. Dogs doing dog language stuff…

    But most, fuck 95% won’t do this here:

    I got to the point where I was ready and prepared to walk. Hired a divorce lawyer. Started openly flirting with women, picked up one or two even.

    They are too afraid to take that step. And that is exactly the step you need to take. And first I’d say. I started my de-betaization with a declarative statement “we will get divorced.” And I think that made all the difference. Certainly shortened the time to a year.

    And when she does start getting bitchy for an extended period?… That’s my signal… Business trip!

    LOL…. me too. You can still just get a little lazy… and this is a whole other can of worms.

  75. “Continually getting better as a man (or as a woman, if you are a woman) is what the healthy Red Pill is all about. “Don’t wish it were easier, make yourself better.”
    That’s different from the maximizing strategy.”

    I think that really all depends Marko, doesn’t it? There’s a big difference between “there’s a whole lot of monkeys on the monkey tree so I’m going to just start picking one right after the other,” and simply becoming aware of the fact that you do have options. If you are aware you have options, than your spouse becomes a genuine choice. Everybody wants to be someone’s choice, not their ball and chain, or their “only option.”

    So I flirt with some of the older guys at church, groups of us have coffee together, it’s simply a way of basking in some male energy, maximizing potential, breathing some life into yourself. Hubby had a sales girl all over him the other day, very entertaining, but that is the same idea. It is a bit like supply and demand. People are more attractive to us when they are in demand, aren’t they? So I can picture “maximizing” as a mindset, an attitude, without any problem.

  76. @Blaximus

    “Just because a man marries he should never give up ownership of his sexuality. Ever. To anyone. He can decide to exclusively share it, but he ultimately owns it always. This crazy shit about women having the pussy, so they make the rules, makes me laugh until my sides hurt. Gtfoh with that bullshit.

    Go rule somebody that’s willing to be ruled.”

    Oh shit, you’re sane again!

    @IB

    “Sounds potentially selfish and dangerous, doesn’t it? That’s why I keep bugging Tomassi about values, morals, because that’s what shapes what you “want” to do. But in a relationship, the wanting is what makes it worthwhile, you want to be there, you want to maximize it, you want to enjoy it, you want to try new things. Marriage as this endless cross to bear, this never ending sacrifice, this place you go to die, is just painful and tragic.”

    Maybe women aren’t the only ones making marriage that way, but men are the only ones trying to fix it, and they’re seething with rage watching you get older and fatter while they do it.

  77. @ Jeremy

    “Way to go. Great stuff.”

    X10

    Way to go indeed Jeremy, thanks for posting.

    I got my amplifier volume turned up to 8 so far and you sound like you turned yours up to nearly 11. Great job.

    I also notice the change to only the occasional shit test these days and I respond to them by using them to my advantage. And when I do that with skill, she feels more confident about her trust in me. Not surprising how that works.

    I also find her recognition of Masculinity in real time. The Trumpening has also done wonders for this little phenomenon of recognizing alpha. The pussy hat march (and what it represents) and the cackling of the Main Stream Media is starting to annoy her.

    I also faced an uphill battle with her being High Self Esteem. “In her own right, very strong, very self-assured.”

    I never really played in her frame. In my case it was lack of skill in managing my Game. (Drunk Captain, literally and figuratively). So I worked on that. That’s why I keep yapping about Mastery. I simply didn’t have it in addition to my own Mental Point of origin (which I did have). I didn’t have rock solid emotional intelligence to interact properly with others (Dale Carnegie style). I accomplished getting better at social interactions, and interpersonal dealings with her, with Game practice (and lots of venues to practice it in) and supreme desire to turn things around. I really really wanted it. And she came around with me staying in my Frame, not leaning into hers. I had faith all along that I was fully prepared if she walked. And Accepted what would happen if that happened. She didn’t lose her value, either sexually or after that. I had. I accepted that and moved to change it.

    It’s Beta Tells and Alpha Tells all over again.

    And I’m Happy.

  78. @Sentient – As good and true as the high-level dogs/cats DPA stuff you espouse is, the examples you give from your own experience demonstrate the concepts. It’s these real life examples that show me how they manifest to practical application. Pure platinum my friend, thanks again. More please.

    @Jeremy – you’re at the same place I was up until a short while ago. Everything was working, wife appreciative, horny, eager to please, etc. This post’s comments made me remember another factor that was likely playing a huge role in both my success and failure to secure the solution long-term. There were undoubtedly several of my wife’s friends that I could have banged, it was clear. I’m sure my wife knew of their interest and my overall ability to get other pussy if I so chose. She liked having a man other women desired.

    Then we moved across the country a few months ago. No more social life, no more reminders in her face that she’s not my only option. Now shit is falling apart but I’m not really doing anything different than before.

    I’m wondering if this is the missing piece to my puzzle. I am ready and currently doing that last step of saying fuck it, I’m outta here. I fully intend to pursue all the IOIs and chances I heretofore rejected because of my misguided belief in doing the ‘right thing.’

  79. @Blax – Cheating. Great points. The cheating really wasn’t about being so horny that I needed to get laid. In my case it was a conscious decision… a Rubicon I needed to cross… Me saying to myself “Okay…There’s no going back now.” Not recommending it as a strategy by any means, but in my case I determined it was necessary. As for the experiences themselves — meh. Actually much prefer sex with the (now desirous) wife, and so don’t feel particularly compelled to do it again.

    What is fun as hell though, and something I picked up from reading some of your comments… It turns out that it is a real kick to get women hot and bothered and *not* act on it. The “tells” and the IOI’s are always the same and you can read them like clockwork. You also get a fantastic perspective on what a woman’s sexual power actually feels like for her when you have the capabilities to play the same game. No denying it… It’s very intoxicating.

    Ironically, it supercharges the bedroom on the home front as well. Makes me horny as shit for the old ball and chain. Probably some deep evo-psych shit going on there that I can’t explain.

  80. @Insanity has a good response to Marko here. Of course men’s capacity to do harm is something that any moral system or organized society needs to address.* Rollo does not really touch this, and that seems to be Insanity’s chief complaint. But as she said on a previous comments section, it is the idea of men being bad, not the idea of men being good, that inspires women’s affection. Rollo can only get at that truth, through unambiguous analysis, and avoiding the rabbit hole of moral advice. I would also add that, if a man needs some blogger to tell him how to act morally, then he is very far astray from the whole “mental point of origin” advice.

    * If you look at the trajectory of US crime statistics over the past several decades, it is pretty obvious that men’s lesser natures have been tamed to a degree that is extraordinary in modern history.

  81. Sounds potentially selfish and dangerous, doesn’t it?

    Perhaps you can offer your concern to young men who are selfishly leaving their community and dangerously migrating en mass to other countries. I’m sure they’ll leave you feeling appreciated.

  82. “Of course men’s capacity to do harm is something that any moral system or organized society needs to address.”

    Is there any paucity of that in our society?

    ” . . . a man needs some blogger to tell him how to act morally . . .”

    That is essentially IB’s premise. Yes. In fact, she seems to believe that three are essential reading. There is some indication that there are a few lesser lights that she considers worthwhile reading as well, but that they do not reach the hights of The Three.

  83. @whywasiblue
    “Most of the women out there have it driven into their heads that they have to be Strong Independent Women just like men are beaten into Beta-hood. They have their own red pill to swallow.”

    That’s an important point, one that gets lost in the whole us-vs-them nature of RP discourse.

    Feminists tell women that they are men with different body parts. So when a woman struggles emotionally with that “strong independent” stuff, she is made to feel like it is a personal failing. Of course the real reason is that men and women are wired differently.

  84. @kfg
    “Is there any paucity of that in our society?”

    No, that’s exactly my point! The problem between men and women is not that masculinity is running amuck (again, we at least have crime statistics on male violence). But it’s probably a hardwired thing for us (men… danger) that makes it easy for feminists to sell this narrative. Even Trump played on social anxieties regarding ‘untamed men’ to get votes. And IB likewise has an emotional tripwire regarding this when she reads Rollo’s stuff (even when basically agreeing with the underlying premise).

    The idea that we have to protect women and NOT men has gone to some pretty crazy extremes too. In my state, a married man can end up being forced to pay child support for a kid who is not his. This is one of the more crazy-sounding things you will read on the RP Reddit, but I have read the caselaw myself. I doubt that it is as common as a lot of RP guys think, but the fact that it is even possible is pretty sobering.

  85. @Softek, @Sentient, @SJF

    Sentient: Most likely it is not comfort or validation it is resolution she is seeking. She wants to know where she stands with Softek.

    Softek: She saw me with a younger girl who was all over me and freaked out.

    Freaking out comes from the midbrain. Dread is operative here. The midbrain invokes the cortex and gives control to the cortex, so you get “Where do I stand”, but you need to address the real situation which is in the midbrain.

    You might say, “Ah, you know how I feel about you” as you pull her in for a kiss. “What does any other woman have compared with you?” Stare into her eyes up close. It’s vague and gives comfort, which is perfect for satisfying her midbrain and letting her hamster provide the missing details.

    Who’s the expert on Dread?

    A 29 yo maid in my wife’s family home overseas was flirting aggressively (this included sneaky, tho incidental, touch and is precluded by the culture) with me in front of my inlaws…my wife asked me if I realized that she was teasing me and I replied “Really? I had no idea” with a smirk. Mrs. Gamer was cool about it.

  86. I agree with the go red pill all the way or not at all.

    This is hard to do. We have a whole society invested in a concept of romantic love that is fantasy hiding a biological reality.

    The happiest men I know are those who have LTRs but have no outward trappings of commitment to their relationships. They sometimes have children, but invariably their women look at the men as if they can do no wrong. These women worship their men in ways most find offensive.

    I have seen married up wives try to talk “some sense” into the long term girlfriends. I even overheard one of them say “why get married? He’d only leave me.” And she meant every word. That is frame. That is red pill.

    Any woman in your life should have a deep fear that you as a man would leave her. The man either has the power in the relationship or he does not. End of story.

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