Sexual Retirement

retirement

Rational Reader, If-I-Fell wrote a comment addressing a common dynamic I think is larger in scope than most men realize. I’ve addressed this before, but I think it deserves a bit more elaboration. This first part was a commentary on Angelina Jolie’s elective double mastectomy surgery. Emphasis mine:

“I don’t know why Brad would still want Angelina. She is no longer a woman”, I said. Wait for it… Wait for it…

“That’s an awful thing to say; she has cancer in her family, and she had no choice,” she said.

This argument occurred after Angelina underwent her “de-womanizing” surgery, and before the “Brad is a drunken child abuser” incident.

This left the question—why did she have the surgery and why does calling a woman a eunuch raise such an emotional response from a woman, concerning a woman that she doesn’t know or really care about?

The Sisterhood Über Alles®, continuing,…

I am going to assert (without proof or study) that the reason is Sexual Retirement from a Beta (or even an Alpha).

I assert that women in hormonal decline (perimenopause) have a subconscious or conscious desire to retire from sex while holding onto their position and status. I believe this is a different dynamic from the operational cycling woman – dead bedroom. In this case, she doesn’t want sex from anyone, as opposed to she wants sex with someone, just not you. The feminine imperative is pushing sexual retirement as a women’s rights issue.

For a better explanation of the sexual retirement dynamic and if you want to get angry, read Lori Ann Lothian’s article “When He Wants Sex and You Don’t.” Basically, Lori has had her bad boy sex and now instead of using HRT (hormone replacement therapy) and making the effort, she wants to retire. She says that she is more creative when hormonally depleted and her cuck husband is understanding and supportive.

Since I began this blog I’ve attempted to outline the endless number of social conventions employed by the Feminine Imperative. It should be noted here that the Feminine Imperative has always evolved to fluidly reinvent these conventions to advantage women – and thus ensure their sexual strategy – at every stage of their maturity, but also in adapting to new truths that would otherwise threaten women’s insurance. There are many examples of the imperative reimagining various social convention in light of unflattering truths that previous conventions no longer account for, but are unignorable in a larger social scope.

The problem inherent in women’s Hypergamous sexual strategy has always been the balance of optimizing the best breeding potential (Alpha Fucks) with the best long-term security potential (Beta Bucks) in men. The capacity for a woman to optimize this balance is determined by her sexual agency (attractiveness & sexual availability) with men. This is why it’s necessary for adaptable social conventions, that sit outside this dynamic, to be established in order to qualify what should be attractive to men. This in turn enables women to distract and dissuade men with social narratives that comfort women, but confuse and shame men.

Yes, that flies in the face of biological truths about men’s arousal cues, but for generations these conventions have successfully convinced (Beta) men that those cues are learned, socially conditioned, triggers, and that if they’d just change their minds about attraction they’d see that they can be “attracted’ to any woman for any made up reason. This is the same social constructivist narrative that would have us believe gender identity is a learned social construct (which also contradicts the narrative of being born the ‘wrong gender’), and as such, attraction cues are also learned. This narrative works well for the Feminine Imperative because it’s a means to prolong women’s artificially inflated concept of attractiveness,…that is until women reach certain stages of maturity in their lives.

There are two points in women’s lives where this contrived idea about a socially conditioned definition of attractiveness fails them. The first, you may guess, is the Wall; the point at which a woman realizes she’s no longer able (or less able) to intra-sexually compete with other women for the attentions of men she hopes to optimize her Hypergamy with. At this stage there are two social conventions prepared for her – shame for men who base their ‘attraction’ on their primary requisite of physical appeal and not her (very marginal) intrinsic qualities, and/or a redefinition of what should constitute attractiveness (“it’s what’s on the inside that should count”). The latter also having the false confidence inflating effect of making a woman believe that her ‘attractiveness’ should be an indefinite, ambiguously defined, commodity; thus encouraging the belief that a woman can prolong her quest in finding the right guy to optimize Hypergamy well after the Wall.

The second phase is what If-I-Fell describes above, a phase where peri- and post-menopausal women are forced to accept that their sexual agency is at an end, but the need for Frame control still persists. This is a stage where no amount of pseudo self-confidence will convince a woman’s hindbrain that she can depend on her sexual agency to ensure her long-term security. But, as with everything else in a woman’s life, the Feminine Imperative is ready with a rationalization and various social conventions to absolve her of her reliance on her sexual agency and, of course, place the responsibility for it squarely on men’s shoulders.

In fact, those conventions can be quite profitable if you can offer any contrived solution to those insecurities.

Sexual Retirement

As If-I-Fell relates, there are no shortages of pop psychologist, women celebrities and talk show hosts ready with a book, an interview or a testimony of encouragement absolving women of their dependency on their sexual agency (for the entirety of their lives) in their menopausal phase while simultaneously shaming men who would even hint at not supporting this absolving.

Even women who would otherwise have been hated rivals during their sexually competitive years are later forgiven when they provide a salve for these insecurities when they reach an age where even the most attractive among them must come to terms with this sexual retirement. It’s at this stage the Sisterhood comes together in solidarity (in place of cut-throat intra-sexual competition) to bemoan their victim’s status.

The Feminine Imperative is indeed pushing sexual retirement, and absolving women of the consequences of their sexual agency and strategy, as a women’s rights issue. There’s a lot of money (not to mention ego validation) in fostering this in women.

If-I-Fell continues:

[…]Now, I have an argument with the wife every time she says she wants to go off HRT.

At this point, many guys blue and red will think I’m an asshole. After all, the Feminine Imperative is telling women to stay on HRT short-term to relieve symptoms and the risk of blood clots and woman-related cancers is increased. To the contrary, it is my understanding the increased cancer risk touted as doubled can be as small as a change of 1:100,000 to 2:100,000.

Suzanne Sommers has written multiple books in support of bioidentical hormone replacement that covers HRT in detail. This may be a good resource for men whose women have begun hormonally misfiring.

So, here’s the point of my long comment and how it relates to the topic of Reconstruction.

HRT (hormone replacement therapy) for menopausal women is the new litmus test for ’empowered’ women, and the personal impact of a woman’s life-long social investments comes down to a crisis of motive dilemma. Does a menopausal woman, whose sexual agency is well beyond her capacity to effectively compete in the sexual marketplace, accept the marginal risks associated with HRT in order to maintain her libido and her looks “for her husband’s sexual pleasure“?

When Angelina chose to desexualize herself the cover story we’re meant to accept is that she did so in order to preempt the breast cancer that runs in her family. That’s a hard decision to make (and one I’d expect from someone as invested in feminist theology and as psychologically imbalanced as Jolie), but there’s no real acceptable counter to it. She had a double mastectomy to save her life and considerations of her lessened sexual agency shouldn’t enter into the conversation. If we’re to accept that men’s arousal / attraction is to be based on women’s intrinsic qualities and not her extrinsic physical qualities, then any conversation about her opting to electively desexualize herself in doing so is rendered moot.

Men’s Pleasure

Brad Pitt’s pleasure, his arousal, his emotional investment in Jolie is never a consideration because the social constructivist position that attraction is learned disqualifies any counterargument anyone might pose. In fact, just doing so makes that person a pariah – she’s saving her life here man!

However, this transitions us to the idea that women do not ‘exist for a man’s pleasure’. This is a common refrain you’ll get from feminists and Women’s Studies teachers when they try to convince us about the infamous ‘male gaze‘ – they believe that a man’s simply gazing upon a beautiful woman is offensive because he’s deriving some visceral pleasure in doing so.

The male gaze is the way in which the visual arts and literature depict the world and women from a masculine point of view, presenting women as objects of male pleasure. The phrase male gaze was coined by feminist film critic Laura Mulvey in 1975.

Men have evolved to assess sexual availability of women and evaluate their fitness in the span of moments. This was a necessary evolutionary adaptation in the past in that it served men well to breed efficiently and evacuate quickly should a rival or monogamously paired man be in the vicinity to mate guard with violence. And this adaptation is also the result of women’s sexual strategy and predilection for making cuckolds of men.

The operative point here is that within a state of Sexual Retirement the long term partner of that woman is expected to identify with women’s experience so intimately, and reform his personality so thoroughly to accommodate the Frame of women that he is expected to default to understanding that ‘his pleasure’ is never to be a priority for women – no matter how devoted. In fact, this premise is foundational to feminist ideology and something men must be conditioned to accept via Blue Pill indoctrination.

This is a very important Red Pill truth men should understand. Blue Pill conditioning, the Feminine Imperative and feminist doctrine is rooted in the idea that women are never to ‘please’ men. Men are always to perform for, qualify for and serve at the ‘pleasure’ of women. Any idea, any effort, any pretense of overtly or covertly initiate a behavior with the purpose of pleasing a man is anathema to a feminine-primary  social order.

This premise is extended to countless social dictates and social conventions across many phases of women’s maturity and many aspects of our feminized society. In this case, the ‘never for men’s pleasure’ doctrine extends to the question of whether a woman should go on HRT with the express reason of staying pleasing and sexual for a man. That answer will always be a resounding ‘no’ for women steeped in the social conventions of the Feminine Imperative.

Side Note: There are of course many different instances in which a woman may intentionally do something for a man’s pleasure. Strippers, lingerie, adopting a sexy attitude, etc., you can probably think of many more. My intent here isn’t to suggest that women don’t intentionally do things to please men, but rather that their so doing is looked down on with disdain by a larger, feminine-primary social order. In those cases the narrative gets reversed and the line gets blurred as to whom a woman does such things for. If others can be convinced those acts are sources of Fempowerment, or that the means (pleasing men) justify the ends (female power) then we validate the action and, again, we return to a Crisis of Motive.

From Late Life Hypergamy

I wondered if she would even consider taking the new “pink pill”, the female form of viagra, but I’ve read enough counter argument articles from women about it to know that women’s hardwired psychology prevents them from even chemically altering themselves to want to have sex with a man her Hypergamy cannot accept. My guess is that even a cheeky holiday in the Maldives won’t be enough to convince Saira to want to fuck Steve.

However, this simple fact, that women will refuse to take the Spanish Fly to work themselves up and bypass their Hypergamy for their Beta husband’s happiness, destroys the convention that her frigidity is the result of her biomechanics. She doesn’t want a pill to fix her because she knows it’s a holistic problem.

I think it’s very telling that women will cognitively refuse to have sex with a man who represents a less than equitable exchange for either Alpha Fucks or Beta Bucks. When a woman is consciously aware of the fact that the value of a man she should be having sex with (due to societal expectations, marriage, etc.) is not commensurate with what her subconscious is telling her there comes an internal conflict – and one that’s rooted in women’s evolved Hypergamous doubts of suitably breeding.

For all of the equalist hopes that sex might be something men should condition themselves to overcome or cure themselves of, women’s subconsciousness won’t allow them to consciously take a pill that would effectively do the same thing they expect of men – to convince their sex drives to want to be aroused by a woman for reasons other than what they evolved to be aroused by.

This is literally what we’ll condition men for from the earliest ages; to deny their sexual impulse in favor of seeing women in a humanist perspective and condition them to feel shame when their biology wont cooperate with social constructivist belief. Yet, when we present a solution to achieve the same effect with women – a pill that would make them want to fuck men who their hindbrains would otherwise reject – women’s hindbrains are disgusted at the thought of taking a pill to circumvent their biology.

And even that refusal isn’t enough. Men must be shamed for attempting to chemically achieve what takes the Feminine Imperative generation to in men.

As I was finishing this essay I came across the following series of Tweets:

https://twitter.com/FirstCrowned/status/827128562335498241

i just sat near by two 60+ women.Let me tell you,hypergamy & golddigging never stops & they r not ashamed at all, laughing when talking about potential man. 1st time that i heard about ‘i’m old, weak & forgetful’ cards.They are part of main deck.

Shiite,they r now talking about age,praising each other that they r still young. Major problem is buying new clothes.

They both have facebook. Proud divorces also… 1 was major slut, bragging about it… So much gold, i cant believe this.

I managed to take a pic, its 1pm,both r drinking, right one is loud mouth, attention whore till the end.

Unfuckingbelievable, one of them is talking about doctor who makes women prettier, ‘he fixed tonnes of tits’ -word for word verbatim.

You can read the rest of the exchange, but I thought this was an interesting contrast to the idea of Sexual Retirement. The older women get, the more comfortable they become in embracing Hypergamy openly. This is something for Red Pill men to bear in mind when they are seeing the forest for the trees with women. The less a woman perceives she needs a man to accommodate the aspects of her Hypergamy, the more comfortable she is in revealing how it operates for her and women at large.

If you come across a woman who’s comfortable in Open Hypergamy, the question you need to ask yourself is, what is it that she perceives about herself makes her believe that revealing her Game to you will benefit her with? Granted, these old women are long past their expiration date with regard to their SMV, but isn’t it interesting that in spite of what’s obvious to any Red Pill guy, they still entertain themselves with believing they haven’t retired from sex in their old age? All of the same ego-appeasement we’d expect from teenage girls still persists into women’s 70s and 80s.

So, is there really such a thing as ‘sexual retirement’ for women, or is it just a convenient way of casting off a woman’s Beta-husband need for ‘pleasure’ after a certain age? I covered this further in Preventive Medicine.

 

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

325 comments on “Sexual Retirement

  1. Sargon is ant–feminist, but Blue Pill. What he wants is for women to drop the hypocrisy so that men and women can interact as true equals. For third wave to go away so we can all go back to a nice, comfy second wave. When actually interacting with women his frame completely collapses.

    He’s a very Nice Guy.

    “I’m curious where he got that statistic. Pretty much every medical study (mostly the JAMA and Lancet) indicates the risk is higher than that.”

    This sentence has no meaning, because it has no object.

    “Now, it’s true that estrogen-only use will lower the risk of breast cancer substantially . . .”

    OK, now we’re at least hinting at one, but the figures you’re questioning don’t have that object, they have the object as a variable. There is some x where the risk factor goes from 1:100,000 to 2:100,000.

    Say x=eating a single Vienna Sausage and cancer=Follicular dendritic cell sarcoma.

    What is being pointed out is that it will be reported as a “100% increase in risk.”

    What most people will hear is “100% risk,” when the actual risk could anything from nil to 100%. The relative risk tells you nothing about the actual, absolute risk. And it’s done that way on purpose to generate large quantities of concern over small quantities of risk.

    “Females have high maintenance equipment.”

    It’s a measure of biological expendability.

  2. Q: Why does it “take a village to raise a child”?
    A: Because you’re probably going to die before the child is raised.

  3. “OK, now we’re at least hinting at one, but the figures you’re questioning don’t have that object, they have the object as a variable. There is some x where the risk factor goes from 1:100,000 to 2:100,000.

    Say x=eating a single Vienna Sausage and cancer=Follicular dendritic cell sarcoma.

    What is being pointed out is that it will be reported as a “100% increase in risk.”

    What most people will hear is “100% risk,” when the actual risk could anything from nil to 100%. The relative risk tells you nothing about the actual, absolute risk. And it’s done that way on purpose to generate large quantities of concern over small quantities of risk.”

    The reason I asked for the source of the statistics.
    From the statistics I’m familiar with, the risk of cancer isn’t exactly “low”, and the increased risk is quite significant.

    I could use the example of a Buzzed piece with statistics that was reblogged tens of thousands of times, used to “prove”:
    ” A man is 631 times more likely to become an NFL player than to be falsely accused of rape! Thirty-two times more likely to be struck by lightning! Eleven times more likely to be hit by a comet!”(which is a bunch of horseshit, and I could go into why…but I don’t need to convince anyone here).
    I’m in the habit of asking for a source when I see statistics that seem to refute facts I am familiar with.

  4. “From the statistics I’m familiar with, the risk of cancer isn’t exactly “low”, and the increased risk is quite significant.”

    Again, this sentence is meaningless.

    What’s the cohort? What’s the time period? What’s the factor?

    “Stuff happens,” is not a news story. Who, What, Why, When and Where.

    ” . . . the statistics I’m familiar with . . .”

    . . . are those that interest you personally, rather than those of an actuary who is interested in statistics generally.

  5. “What’s the cohort? What’s the time period? What’s the factor?

    “Stuff happens,” is not a news story. Who, What, Why, When and Where.

    ” . . . the statistics I’m familiar with . . .”

    . . . are those that interest you personally, rather than those of an actuary who is interested in statistics generally.”

    I’m just hoping for factual statistics (some reputable source, actuarial studies would be great) based on the cohort that is the subject of this thread (women in the age category to be on HRT). And the premise (that the risk of cancer is low).

  6. “I’m just hoping for factual statistics . . . on the cohort that is the subject of this thread”

    Yes, but the subject of the comment was the problem of reporting relative risk without reporting absolute risk.

    Generating the specific numbers in question and placing them in an actuarial table would be a time consuming, but trivial task. Likewise for finding them in an extant table.

    I’m not inclined to do so when the hypothetical example I gave of where such numbers might come from is adequate for the purpose of illustration.

  7. “Yes, but the subject of the comment was the problem of reporting relative risk without reporting absolute risk.”

    That was the subject of YOUR comment.

    The comment I was referring to:
    “After all, the Feminine Imperative is telling women to stay on HRT short-term to relieve symptoms and the risk of blood clots and woman-related cancers is increased. To the contrary, it is my understanding the increased cancer risk touted as doubled can be as small as a change of 1:100,000 to 2:100,000.”

    It is implicit in that comment the risk (again, for HRT-age women undergoing HRT) is not only relatively small, but VERY small.

  8. anon
    ’m just hoping for factual statistics (some reputable source, actuarial studies would be great) based on the cohort that is the subject of this thread (women in the age category to be on HRT). And the premise (that the risk of cancer is low).

    Good news. There is a tool that can help you. It is called http://www.google.com

  9. “It is implicit in that comment the risk . . . is not only relatively small, but VERY small.”

    Not “is,” but “can be.” It can be that the absolute risk is so small that no relative risk has been properly assessed, because it isn’t practical to assemble a large enough observational cohort.

    It can be that the absolute risk is 2000% higher than 1:100,000.

    ” . . . the cohort that is the subject of this thread (women . . .”

    Assessing the likely medical needs of “women” is a necessary administrative task.
    Treating “women” is a medical error.

  10. Thanks AR.
    I’m familiar with that tool. I’m also familiar with statistics on this subject.
    What I’m not familiar with are the statistics that back the assertions provided.

  11. “Not “is,” but “can be.” It can be that the absolute risk is so small that no relative risk has been properly assessed, because it isn’t practical to assemble a large enough observational cohort.”

    Perhaps we should even debate the definition of is?
    This isn’t a luminosity semantical logics test…a person made a claim and implied that the risks for hormone replacement therapy are low relative to the advantages. He used his wife as an example. Perhaps I am going out on a limb here, but I’m assuming he doesn’t actually want her to get cancer or a cerebral hemorrhage. I’m honestly curious where he obtained the statistics that back his belief.

  12. “Perhaps we should even debate the definition of is?”

    As it happens, when he said that I shouted “Yes!” at the TV. It was a lovely little bit of lawyering.

  13. anon
    I’m honestly curious where he obtained the statistics that back his belief.

    You could have asked that question some time back. Maybe he would have even answered you…then.

    Remember, http://www.google.com is your friend.

  14. “You could have asked that question some time back. Maybe he would have even answered you…then.”

    I could have, but I thought I’d just let that one lie…until Sam Botta piped in with:
    “EXACTLY!
    With HRT, the risk of cancer is always DECREASED if you have my doctors!”

    Seemed a reasonable time to inquire.

  15. When masectomies were first proposed by medical science, it was vehemently opposed by women. Women argued they were losing their very identity to the procedure. An ancillary objection was the effect it would have on their spouses. It took the deaths of hundreds of women for the public and women (with the carrier gene) to support\elect to have the surgery.
    As a way of mitigating the psychological distress women felt before and after the operation, the feminine imperative instilled the notion, women were more than just their ovaries and mammary glands. The gist being, a woman’s intrinsic nature couldn’t be touched by a knife.

    Feminism, later, co-opted the spousal argument for their own ends.

    This is a woman’s issue, as say testicular cancer is a man’s purview. I find it unseemly when we stray into territory outside our sphere of understanding.

  16. “This is a woman’s issue, as say testicular cancer is a man’s purview. I find it unseemly when we stray into territory outside our sphere of understanding.”

    This is a men’s blog. It is a manosphere space. It is meant to discuss male strategy.

    The physical or virtual Spaying of women, self chosen, is not unseemly or unknowable in the position of a spouse.

    Also, issues at menopause are not unseemly for an invested male partner. The issue is that women can invest at will when motivated.

    “Outside our sphere of understanding” said no maculine manophere writer, ever.

  17. ollie
    This is a woman’s issue, as say testicular cancer is a man’s purview.

    Ehhhh…no. It is not.

    I find it unseemly when we stray into territory outside our sphere of understanding.

    Your Concern is duly noted.

    As for me, my sphere of understanding is constantly expanding.

  18. anon

    Seemed a reasonable time to inquire.

    Too bad you didn’t enquire in a way Sam Botta would recognize.
    This is a male oriented site. Talking in oblique, indirect, circular, semi-self-referential ways might not get you the results you desire.

  19. On sexual retirement… Take the wife out for a stroll and some lunch. See a kid maybe 4 years old. She syas she misses that age. I say well grandkids are natures remedy for that.

    Later at lunch she asks if i want to have another baby with her… Lol. She is 49 and we have 5 already… I say no more babies.

    Then she asks if I want to have a baby with anyone else. I ponder it a bit. “Nope. My baby days are over”…

  20. “Talking in oblique, indirect, circular, semi-self-referential ways might not get you the results you desire.”

    There was nothing oblique or indirect about my inquiry.

  21. “Later at lunch she asks if i want to have another baby with her… Lol. She is 49 and we have 5 already… I say no more babies.

    Then she asks if I want to have a baby with anyone else. I ponder it a bit. “Nope. My baby days are over”…

    Yup. Sentient. You are winning and inspiring Red Pill Game. This is an exciting time with children our age. Holy shit these 20’s y.o. kids are something. And the wife striving to be relevant.

    Thank god ours are.

    I could quote Deida on the value and the strength of strong women. But I can also expound on the value of children well raised while reining in your wife’s basest impulses. And crazy ideas.

    But I won’t. It’s a thing. To moderate her. And to go your own way.

    A women raises her hand for sexual retirement if you allow her to, or if she manipulates, dominates or otherwise is tired of you.

    It’s avoidable.

  22. I need clarification on plate theory (still reading and re-reading stuff).

    In Plate Theory 1, Rollo advocates “brutal honesty and a commitment to truthful, non-exclusivity with the plates you’re spinning.” But in the next essay says that “in practice, non-exclusivity has to be covert.”

    I am not sure I understand the distinction My instinct would be to provide honest and non-defensive responses to questions, but to not address the matter unless she brings it up. Or is there something else I am missing?

  23. Weekend update

    Thursday night, big two section bar, college scene up front, blue collar in back, bathrooms in between.

    Coming out of bathrooms I spy two lesbians-until-graduation types, pecking kisses and wierd pinching ass, not horny, rather they don’t know how to use their hands on a lady…I couldn’t resist…I approach while they’re holding hands.

    “Ya know, you are unconvincing as lesbians esp. her (pointing to the cutey). Y’all think its exotic only cuz youve never had the real deal…like me.”

    The less pretty protests the opposite.

    Me: “Y’all know if we were all now naked, and she saw my raging hard on, she’d be on it like white on rice.”

    Full stop. The cutey starts to scream…and I mean Jamey Lee Curtis style terror scream…unremitting…on and on…close example here:

    https://youtu.be/wDYNVH0U3cs

    The other is flustered, doesn’t know what to do with screamer and how to deal with it all. Staring at me if I knew something, not angry, kinda panicked. Dudes around, flummoxed. I shrug smiling and walk away. Funny shit. 22 to 2 years old in a New York minute. Too ez.

    Friday night. Downtown at popular karaoke bar. Wife and I bump into clutch of acquaintance surburban moms (2 o.k., the rest gave up long ago) on a GNO. I buy 6 gin and tonics, load my set list to fit the moms, 80’s long hair rock…Unskinny Bop went over well. Hah. All moms on the dance floor and others too.

    Girls were dancing, nearby dudes impotent, I’d dance with cute moms as needed. I notice the queen bee wants to dance, grab her hand walk her out. She says she’s not a good dancer, me: “Relax, I lead, u follow.” Her: “Ahem, I don’t follow well.” Me, grabbing her waist, hand, pelvic bump, tugging her in: “Baby, I can handle you.” I physically felt her relax…cool.

    Saturday, at whiskey bar: one of those nights where the free shots were coming fast. I’m DD, so sip the shots, hand them off, 4 shots bought for us. (Rejection, Aleph? You halfwit.) Wife was plastered by night’s end, hee.

    Anyhow, thin guy, middle age, don’t know him, tries to AMOG me. Out of nowhere, he must of pegged me as easy target. This guy DOES have a posse of fit guys with him. Picking on my suit, challenging my confidence, egging me: “You a cult leader, huh? Be straight, look me in the eyes…whatever you selling, you aint foolin me.” Oh and something about selling girl scout cookies on a porch too (?). Reminded me of Rand Hooks comment re: the Beta on the bus looking to qualify himself to his gassing girlfriend. Really dramatic, constantly touching me, trying to escalate the physical. I stood up and calmly kept his hands busy away from me. He’d touch my arm, I’d grab his shirt, he’d act macho nice, Me: “You’re incomprehensible, bro. Sober up.” He kept playing race card/military experience/his job in my face, commanding me to stop grabbing his arm, as he was patting my shoulder, I’d grab his elbow cloth. The women were oblivious, I didn’t want to roll, ruin the chill, happy vibe. Didn’t know/trust the scenario enough that if i struck out, I’d walk without police involvement. He came back, tried it again twice more. I remained unknowable, nothing overt.

    There’s a little more about a cucking cutey I only just talked up. She barfed her relationship troubles to me which I outsourced to Mrs. Eh. The gals talked a lot about her away from hubby, he’s a dick, she’s trying to keep it together, you know, not her fault she’s fucking other dudes. Mrs. Eh tells her at convo end to let her hubby be a man, stop getting in the way of him and that might help. Woman immediately bolts, is back after 30″ with touchy AMOG fella, who soon is busting my chops. I’m slow on the uptake, only figured cucking girl sic’ed him on me by some manipulation.

    Bartender finally came by, stiff armed him and showed him the door. He’s the usual suspect, apparently. My wife was feelin’ fine with the new company. None the wiser. Bartender poured comped makers mark for me, wife, young single couple we’d chatted up throughout.

    Sunday @ chain bar ‘n grill.

    Convince lipstudded 21 year old to let me write her tinder profile:

    “Authentic woman, vulnerable, no Disney figmemt here. Wanting natural femininity, will help you find you natural masculine too. Looking for a lead on this dancefloor, everywhere. This shouldn’t be difficult…but still is, you know? Help me turn the corner, or better just get it…and I’ll be your ride or die girl.”

    She had a meltdown, scared, running around showing off her profile to the other gals. Couldn’t stop peeping me through the beer taps. Mrs. Eh found it all marvellous.

    My favorite line with bartender girl:

    Me: They’re snakes in every garden. Beware honey.

    Mrs. Eh: I like snakes in my garden.

  24. Long time lurker…
    3 years after swallowing the crimson capsule, and having gone through the usual stages (stuck in anger for a while), I believe that whilst external things like working out, tight Game, height, great hair etc are an advantage, it pales in comparison to rock solid inner Game, and as this great series of posts suggests, working on a genuine MPO and dedication to self improvement ‘for yourself first and foremost’. I have some of those externals, but have poor internals (and not exactly sure why, b/c I shouldn’t) that I am currently working on. Seems to be my last bottleneck towards my goal, at least with women anyway.

  25. @anon wrote estrogen-only use will lower the risk of breast cancer substantially

    Testosterone (propionate) by intramuscular injection reduces the risk of cancer and heart disease in BOTH sexes.

    High estrogen (levels) INCREASES the risk of cancer in both sexes.
    If you do not know your estrogen level, it’s time to email docgadams2020@gmail.com
    It might save your life.

    When a woman has breast cancer, the main pharmaceutical prescribed by MDs is ARIMIDEX® (anastrozole), an estrogen reducer.

    Males that are prescribed testosterone are prescribed ARIMIDEX® (anastrozole) to reduce estrogen, however, a non-pharmaceutical estrogen reducer is Zinc Citrate (If your doctor has prescribed any testosterone other than injectable testosterone propionate or injectable HCG, his or her medical license should be reconsidered. Thankfully, Mark Gordon, M.D. and Andrew Marr have set the record straight with The Warrior Angels foundation on the Joe Rogan Experience show.

    Male hormones are demonized until the best doctors on earth get involved after a hit and run accident… coding (dead) in the hospital, learning to walk and talk again in inpatient care, etc.

    RE: JAMA … There are thousands of natural remedies that are still missing from that resource.

  26. The feminine imperative is pushing sexual retirement as a women’s rights issue…

    She says that she is more creative when hormonally depleted

    In other words,
    the campaign to create ‘hormonally depleted’ world
    is a campaign to exponentially increase the incidence of:

    Cancer

    Heart disease

    Bone density loss

    Alzheimer’s

    Depression

    Loss of creativity

    Brain fog

    Rapid muscle loss

    Destruction of relationships…

  27. “Blaximus… a guy that I think embodies a man good at being a man, a guy that is super masculine”

    Blaximus and Rollo have that something in common that most men want:
    HIGH TESTOSTERONE

    If you admire their High Testosterone traits as clearly seen in their writing and in their lifestyles, it’s time to email docgadams2020@gmail.com … He will prescribe what you need without an office visit. Consult him via email and phone!

  28. @SJF

    “This is a men’s blog. It is a manosphere space. It is meant to discuss male strategy.”

    Yes it is the manosphere. But our ideas, here, must exist outside of this space. What good are they if they don’t?
    The idea you can do something about sexual retirement is preposterous. All women eventually retire from the SMP. A few will entice men with a ‘last performance’ so to speak, as to ensnare him. But he’ll soon realise this and depart.

    “Also, issues at menopause are not unseemly for an invested male partner. The issue is that women can invest at will when motivated.”

    An invested partner should judge whether his wife deserves his years of abstinence.
    Has she earned his suffering? If not, then I don’t have to tell you what his options are.

    A woman can invest when motivated, but I suspect this would be before or after the menopause phase. To suggest this could be during this period, is nonsensical.
    Also, is it worth sifting through the trash for that spent milk carton, to find it has a single drop of milk in it?

  29. @Box – Re: Plate theory. In practice, women do not accept being plates easily. In fact, managing plates is perhaps the best way to observe female hypergamy in action. Even as she’s not being monogamous as well, she will be possessive and be angry if she figures out that you did fuck someone else – even if she is too or has a BF or whatever.

    What this taught is how much of these impulses are hard-coded. Massive caveat though: I’m a journeyman PUA, and also play what I call “long game”. I’m a “thrill of the hunt” guy for sure, and really like long running gambits and relationships with plates. I’ve had a couple that lasted several years, my HB9 is 2.5 years running now. So what I do may not be what you would do.

    But the way it looks to me is this. Because women have these two competing mate selection strategies running all the time, neither of them are “true” or “real”, yes? They are states that women exist in, not decisions or rational positions they adopt. So being a plate will sometimes arouse jealousy, anger, possessiveness and other times will inspire devotion and sexual excitement. Neither are “true” – they just are. The “truth” of your behavior is irrelevant, your fidelity is irrelevant – all that matters is how the woman feels in the moment. She will easily forgive your multiple women the moment after she’s angry about it. One moment she’ll want to hear details, the next she will scream, “Why are you punishing me?” Neither are to be taken seriously. You are dealing with women’s mating strategies and behavior as they though the are men if you take what they do at any given moment as “true” or “how things are”. They are merely states of being for women, and Game is all about navigating those states.

    I think your question reveals some lingering Blue Pill morality or mindset. Let me ask you a basic question: Does doing what it takes to meet your sexual appetites seem like something you could deprioritize? Let’s say that you have to lie to get laid regularly with the variety you want, would you do so? If not, let’s just say that social conditioning is making you subjugate your own desires to some befuddled morality. Get that women forgive the sexual antics of alphas, in fact, fucking other women increases your value in her eyes. The shaming is merely her adaptive strategy to try to control you.

    Be clear – women don’t feel about you the way you feel about them. They are biologically determined to change their minds, to alway be ready to upgrade, to switch strategies, and you being truthful has no effect on any of it. They are much more utilitarian about relationships than you are. Bringing “honesty” to the situation is to not understand what your plates are up to in the first place. I’m not saying “lying” is the approach either. But I don’t approach a plate based on what is “true”, I approach her based on what she needs to feel content and like being my personal porn star again. Trust me, she’s much happier this way than when I tell her “the truth”.

    Each situation is different, but my plates get the same basic story. “What we have is unique, it’s not like a BF/GF thing but that’s good because it’s all about having fun and feeling good. Possession ruins everything. Worrying about all that is what makes relationships go south.” Or, “i’m not a traditional guy. I’m not looking to settle down again, rather, I’m focused on my goals in life and a “relationship” is not at the center of it. You won’t know where I’m at all the time, you won’t hear from me sometimes, and other times I just won’t want to see you. But here is what I promise: When I do see you, it will be awesome. Like ice cream and acid awesomeness. Fun, surprising, very sexy and satisfying.”

    You do have to give plates a reason to stay plates. I don’t think it’s good enough to be like, “This is how it is, bitch, if you don’t like sharing me hit the bricks.” I don’t think that works. What does work is playing with their minds and hypergamous nature, and being truthful or overt is simply a ridiculous way to approach “the hamster.” Women love the drama and up and downs of jealousy etc., YOU just have to stay calm. Without the drama they get bored. They need it, so give it to them and get on with your day. They’ll be much happier and you’ll be getting a lot more pussy.

    IMHO. More experienced PUAs, please chime in, he’s looking for some insight.

  30. IMHO. More experienced PUAs, please chime in, he’s looking for some insight.

    Ain’t none of those here no more. Looks like you’re it Scrib.

  31. “@anon wrote estrogen-only use will lower the risk of breast cancer substantially

    Testosterone (propionate) by intramuscular injection reduces the risk of cancer and heart disease in BOTH sexes.

    High estrogen (levels) INCREASES the risk of cancer in both sexes.”

    I know. The reason for my inquiry to your “attaboy” comment.
    Testosterone isn’t the hormone used for women in hormone replacement therapy.

    HRT for menopausal women comes in either estrogen only or estrogen and progesterone formulas. The estrogen only leads to a slight increase in risk for breast cancer (but, again, endometrial hyperplasia), the other a pretty significant increase in risk.

  32. Thought I should add: When I say “estrogen-only will lower the risk” I’m speaking contextually (for the female on HRT). Estrogen only formulas lower breast cancer risk by comparison to the other formula.

  33. HRT for menopausal women comes in either estrogen only or estrogen and progesterone formulas

    Please send me a private message to sambotta@mac.com with a list of ALL of the “doctors” prescribing those ‘estrogen and progesterone’ formulas. Those ‘doctors’ are dangerously wrong, and I will gladly forward their names to those that have medical licenses reviewed and reconsidered.

    They usually FAIL to care about a woman’s ‘free testosterone’ level, and they usually allow estradiol to remain at cancer causing levels.

    Those ‘doctors’ cause similar issues in men.

    Without the correct combination, most men and women are at risk of imminent cancer and heart disease, and they are too often depressed to the point of suicide.

  34. I am way behind in the comments, but I saw Anon’s request to back the cancer risk statistic.

    This was meant to be illustrative. I think KFG made the point that if your cancer risk is nil, then doubling this risk is still nil. I have seen studies that tout an exponential increase in risk. It was also pointed out that we all have a 100% chance of dying. We all have to decide whether it’s worth it to get out of bed each morning, if we are given the opportunity.

    The gene mutation does change the equation and does make the original comment sound insensitive to this issue. But the point remains, that Ms. Jolie kept the dangerous organs on her body long after the studies came out and while her use of the organs enhanced her business/sexual career.

    By the way, RE: Anon’s comments that Jolie looks like a “cross between skeletor and cruela devil”. I shared that comment, but not the context, with the wife. She laughed and said it’s true.

  35. ON A DIFFERENT NOTE:

    After watching the GRAMMYs and specifically Beyonce’s performance, I am calling on Rollo to close The Rational Male and remove all misogynist content.

    I know that sounds a bit extreme, but Beyonce has opened my eyes. I guess I had forgotten what a production birthing was.

    You are required to put on a gold outfit with a statue of liberty headdress and oil your big fake pregnancy engorged breasts. Then, you have to prepare to deliver a baby while singing and balancing on the back legs of a chair. I mean, dammit, guys are you listening!

    Then, of course, I was deeply shamed, as should we all be, with the knowledge that I had probably not fully appreciated the fact that my Mother has separated her hip bone for my benefit. It’s time guys—time to worship our fertility goddesses.

    I have a busy day ahead—gold costume buying and breast oiling. Plus, I have to go house shopping. I mean, there’s no way I can fit fifty undulating women in my living room to writhe and dance around my goddess wife. But at least I won’t have to spend more time talking to a bunch of damn women-haters.

    Coming dear!

  36. Boxcar

    In Plate Theory 1, Rollo advocates “brutal honesty and a commitment to truthful, non-exclusivity with the plates you’re spinning.” But in the next essay says that “in practice, non-exclusivity has to be covert.”

    Not contradictory. Be open about your non-exclusivity, along the lines of what Scribbs outlined. But don’t rub her face in it… that is the covert part… Don’t keep mentioning other girls or showing off other girls. Then they have to compete with an actual girl, rather than with an imaginary number of girls, and for you this will mean endless shit testing.

  37. @Boxcar

    To clarify the apparent paradox, Rollo’s link to the essay Imagination in Plate theory II explains it more clearly.

    https://therationalmale.com/2011/08/25/imagination/

    Also, for an illustration, imagine in your mind how a high SMV woman would operate in a situation where she had many, many men suitors. How would she operate? Covertly about her options, of course, but also with the elephant in the room of her actually having all the options in the world. What if your mindset was the same as that high SMV girl and you actually did have a tremendous amount of options with women.

    Say if you had $5million in liquid disposable assets and put an ad up on Seeking Arrangements. And you also had a charming personality and better than average looks other personality assets. And the girls were blowing up your phone for a chance at getting with you. How would you act? Would you be overt and tell the first hot piece of ass that of course you’ll commit monogamously to the first, best girl that comes along? While you still have many, many options. It is a mindset thing.

    From Plate Theory II:

    Confidence is derived from options.

    Don’t think of plate theory as a filter so much as it is a means to reinforce confidence. If you were to step into the ring with a professional UFC fighter right now it’d probably be suicide for you. But train for a few years, spar with other fighters and win a few bouts and you’ll probably be confident enough in your past performances that you know you can hold your own in the ring. That’s the idea, confidence derived from the options of non-exclusive women in hand and from having successfully generated those options in the past.

    It’s not a numbers game, it’s a non-exclusivity game. The goal isn’t racking up as many women as humanly possible in order to sift through the throng and find that one little golden flower. In fact that’s the key to disaster. There is no Quality Woman, that’s an idealization. Some are better than others of course, but you don’t find the perfect woman, you make the perfect woman. There is no needle in the haystack – that is Scarcity / ONEitis thinking – the point is to mold yourself and any woman who you do exclusively end up with into your own frame. This is a process that should come before you commit to exclusivity, not after. The world is filled with guys forever trying to catch up, control the frame and be the Man they should’ve been long before they entered an LTR. They spend the better part of their LTRs/Marriages trying to prove that they deserve their GF’s / Wife’s respect when they’d have done better in letting her come to that conclusion well before the commitment through a healthy dose of competition anxiety.

  38. Thanks guys, that makes sense. It seemed kind of obvious that you would not want to overtly discuss and compare other women with your plate, so I thought that “covert” might meant something more than that.

    It’s also easy to just frame the whole thing as “dating,” between the extremes of hookup culture and serial monogamy. Women want to do something very similar — get to know guys in a fun and low-pressure way — so it seems like an easy sell (Once you re-frame the typical “so, when was your last girlfriend?” question).

  39. Regarding female HRT (I am on TRT myself), women need *testosterone* for libido, as some guys have mentioned. (Their bodies cannot make testosterone from estrogen or progesterone.) It is testosterone that spikes during ovulation, so there is a very good reason for the spike in libido. Ironically, estrogenic birth control will lower libido, by inducing low testosterone. Also, typical female HRT involves synthetic hormones, so the studies on cancer risk are not going to reflect bioidentical hormones (which is obviously what you want to use).

    Quote from Dr. Saya (on another forum):

    “HRT for post-menopausal women can ABSOLUTELY restore libido and sexual function, but only if done correctly (just like for males). A common mistake is only replacing E + P (and at low doses and with synthetic hormones) – although this can help with vaginal dryness and painful intercourse, it typically does NOT do much in the way of libido and arousal. This is where TESTOSTERONE comes into play. Just as E + P decline for post-menopausal females, so do testosterone levels but unfortunately they are often ignored/neglected.”

  40. “They are biologically determined to change their minds, to always be ready to upgrade, to switch strategies, and you being truthful has no effect on any of it.”

    Years back my nephew schooled me on my error of sticking with a choice when given an opportunity to switch. He used the Monty Hall Dilemma, illustrating the error of sticking to what you have, thinking the chance for better is statistically nil.

    Between two unknown choices that you think are equal, with a little information and given a choice to stay or switch…always switch.

    “Suppose you’re on a game show, and you’re given the choice of three doors: Behind one door is a car; behind the others, goats. You pick a door, say No. 1, and the host, who knows what’s behind the doors, opens another door, say No. 3, which has a goat. He then says to you, “Do you want to pick door No. 2?” Is it to your advantage to switch your choice?”

    “Here’s the game: Do you stick with door 1 (original guess) or switch to the other unopened door? Does it matter?”

    “Surprisingly, the odds aren’t 50-50. If you switch doors you’ll win 2/3 of the time!”

    “If I rigidly stick with my first choice no matter what, I can’t improve my chances. The best I can do with my original choice is 1 in 3. The other door must have the rest of the chances, or 2/3.”

    “Yes, two choices are equally likely when you know nothing about either choice.”

    “Here’s the general idea: The more you know, the better your decision.”

    “Assuming that “two choices means 50-50 chances” is our biggest hurdle.”

    “Yes, two choices are equally likely when you know nothing about either choice. If I picked two random Japanese pitchers and asked “Who is ranked higher?” you’d have no guess. You pick the name that sounds cooler, and 50-50 is the best you can do. You know nothing about the situation.’

    “Now, let’s say Pitcher A is a rookie, never been tested, and Pitcher B won the “Most Valuable Player” award the last 10 years in a row. Would this change your guess? Sure thing: you’ll pick Pitcher B (with near-certainty). Your uninformed friend would still call it a 50-50 situation.”

    “Information matters.”

    Innate hypergamy assists a woman in knowing, really knowing, what men are oblivious to, essentially information about their mate, who the man is, his potential, and what her other options are. Knowing what’s not behind a door is very helpful in finding the jackpot door. Women get this.

    Women understand the “Monty Hall Dilemma” inherently, IMO and much better than the average guy. When a man is given an opportunity to trade up, explicitly shown where shortcomings exist in his present relationship and opportunity outside it too, (essentially increasing his chance for success through RP) he’ll stick to his initial choice. Women will switch, pull the ring off, blame the guy, just move on much quicker, understanding a switch increases her odds of satisfied hypergamy. She’s running for her life, a guy’s running for his dinner.

    Dynamic: characterized by constant change, activity, or progress.

    On DPA…the dynamism aspect increases a man’s odds of success as by allowing him to change, switch and otherwise manipulate himself, environment. IMO, dynamism isn’t about “movement” rather “change”. Change a.k.a. hypergamy give ladies a leg up, satisfying her need for security, reproduction by changing her mate. Dynamism, a.k.a. change does the same for men.

    Red Queen hypothesis applies here too. The ability to switch, change is critical for success, IMO relationships, everywhere.

  41. @If-I-Fell: “This was meant to be illustrative.”

    Obviously. Like using “10” for g on a blackboard when what you are trying to call attention to is the equation, not the arithmetic.

    For those of you who are just educated enough to squirm around at that, be advised that the example is computing a ballistic on the planet Zog, where g=10m/s^2 and that g(E)!= 9.80m/s^2.

  42. “so, when was your last girlfriend?”

    Well, to be perfectly honest, I’m not sure; my watch runs a little slow.

    “He used the Monty Hall Dilemma . . .”

    When given the option, always take Carol Merrill’s box.

  43. “They strutted the runway in platform boots and lingerie . . .”

    The male equivalent would be Lance Armstrong. Shame it was ruined by all that other stuff.

  44. @kfg

    That’s not bad, but just not something I see myself saying. I was thinking of a tease: “already question about other women, huh?” Followed by, “hey, let’s just do something fun and get to know each other.”

    That seems like the right dynamic. Get her to put away that checklist, and be real and present with me.

  45. On the subject of HRT, I saw an ad in a women’s magazine for Estring—“…is an off-white, soft, flexible ring with a center that contains 2 mg of estradiol (an estrogen hormone). ESTRING releases estradiol into the vagina in a consistent, stable manner for 90 days. The soft, flexible ring is placed in the upper third of the vagina (by the physician or the patient).”

    I performed a word search to see about any exposure concerns for a male partner, and I didn’t find a one. Gee-whiz, bathing your penis in an estrogen bath each time you have intercourse or for guys that perform…you know. Oh, well, I’m sure Pfizer would tell us if there was a problem, right?

    Didn’t they warn women partners of men using underarm testosterone that they might start masculinizing if they came into contact?

  46. From OP: “But, as with everything else in a woman’s life, the Feminine Imperative is ready with a rationalization and various social conventions to absolve her of her reliance on her sexual agency and, of course, place the responsibility for it squarely on men’s shoulders.”

    From Joys of Victimhood: “People who count and call themselves victims never blame themselves for their condition.” “Even when there is a core of substance to the victims’ complaints, they tend to push it. A subtle shift takes place, and suddenly the victim is no longer making appeals but demands.”

    Time Magazine 2016: “That breast cancer garners an impressive amount of social awareness is no accident; it is the result of decades of committed activism beginning in the 1970s, and was driven in large part by the spirit of the women’s liberation movement.”
    “Feminists challenged what they saw as a common power dynamic in medicine in which patronizing male doctors claimed authority over passive female patients by dictating their care and denying them participation in medical decision making.”

    OP: “It’s at this stage the Sisterhood comes together in solidarity (in place of cut-throat intra-sexual competition) to bemoan their victim’s status.”

    Susan Komen: After menopause, being overweight or obese increases breast cancer risk.

    2014 % obese women 40-60/60 and above: 42%39%

    The average age of U.S. women at the time of menopause is 51 years.

    Cancer.gov: Among postmenopausal women, those who are obese have a 20% to 40% increase in risk of developing breast cancer compared with normal-weight women.

    Cancer.gov: According to the current report, the risk that a woman will be diagnosed with breast cancer during the next 10 years, starting at the following ages, is as follows:

    Age 30 . . . . . . 0.44 percent (or 1 in 227)
    Age 40 . . . . . . 1.47 percent (or 1 in 68)
    Age 50 . . . . . . 2.38 percent (or 1 in 42) increased 5.4x from 30 y.o.
    Age 60 . . . . . . 3.56 percent (or 1 in 28) increased 8x from 30 y.o.
    Age 70 . . . . . . 3.82 percent (or 1 in 26) increased 8.68x from 30 y.o.

    Again: “People who count and call themselves victims never blame themselves for their condition.”

    Especially obesity, and attendant ailments, and age. How is being menopausal victim-inducing? Elderly women lose in the SMV, and it’s just not fair (I’m fat) (I’m not desired)(I’m old)!

    https://therationalmale.com/2013/01/24/the-new-thin/

    https://therationalmale.com/2015/04/27/obesity-culture/

    Rollo from 2012: I hate to go all Roissy here, but my fear is that the prevalent, feminized model of the SMP, combined with increasing obesity rates and fat acceptance (another feminized attempt at redefining SMV) social conventions will marginalize ‘traditionally’ feminine women to such a degree that those traditional behaviors and mental schemas will be practically nonexistent in 2-3 more generations.

  47. NIH:

    2016 breast cancer spending: $699 million

    2016 “women’s health” spending: 4,140 million

    2016 prostate cancer spending: $299 million

    2016 “men’s health” spending: not listed

    https://report.nih.gov/categorical_spending.aspx

    Disclaimer: The minimum reporting threshold for a specific disease/condition is $500,000. Reporting of $0 does not indicate that no research is being conducted.

  48. “Among postmenopausal women, those who are obese have a 20% to 40% increase in risk of developing breast cancer . . .”

    Patriarchy!

  49. @Boxcar wrote women need *testosterone* for libido, as some guys have mentioned. (Their bodies cannot make testosterone from estrogen or progesterone.)

    Correct!

    They also need testosterone to fight cancer, heart disease etc.

    Most doctors are completely oblivious to these facts.
    They are dangerous to their patients.

    If-I-Fell mentioned “men using underarm testosterone” …

    What wimp prescribed topical testosterone?

    Please share the name of that doctor.

    That doctor should not have a license to practice medicine.

  50. @Eh – Not necessarily. What needs to happen is for those traditional men and women to reproduce like mad, cuz the non-trads won’t be doing so. In 2 generations of large scale reproduction over the next 50 years we could outnumber them massively. Say each couple had 6 children, do the math over two generations.

    This is the same math Muslims do of course…

  51. @sambotta (topical testosterone)

    The intention of my comment was to point out that the environmental risk for women coming into contact with testosterone is considered to be a problem worthy of a labeling warning, while the environmental risk for men coming into contact with estrogen is not even a consideration.

  52. When men fail to learn from Rollo Tomassi, they become what Sameen is talking about here:

    Sameen Shaw: Been too busy saving the world form bad guys. Besides, relationships are for amateurs. Guys these days have so many… emotions. They cry, they wanna be held. I just don’t know what do with them.
    John Reese: So… you’re a nun?
    Sameen Shaw: I’m a pragmatist, John. I go out, have a fun night or three, and then, uh, I move on. No muss, no fuss.

  53. @If-I-Fell You’re correct: High estradiol literally causes cancer, yet estrogen supplements for women are praised. Deadly estrogen exposure (to men) is ignored.

    REAL testosterone is your immune system.
    REAL testosterone is part of the cancer cure formula.
    REAL testosterone heals the human heart.

    REAL testosterone propionate is LIFE.

    I’m simply trying to stop the mention of horrible forms of testosterone prescribed by wimp doctors. To protect your reputation, please refrain from mentioning all testosterone except testosterone propionate (by intramuscular injection), HCG and others that are REAL doctors like docgadams2020@gmail.com prescribe without an office visit, so he’s available to patients located anywhere in the U S.

    He was an oncologist, but he realized how deadly his profession was. Now he’s reversing the deadly chemo culture and the deadly effects of dangerously high exposure to estrogen.

  54. Oncologist: Well, there’s good news and bad news. Which do you want first?
    Patient: Give me the good news.
    Oncologist: Your condition can be treated.
    Patient: Well, that is good news. What’s the bad news then?
    Oncologist: The treatment is about as likely to kill you as the disease.

  55. @Eh – Not sure what your point is about choice above, other than the tedious game show choice thought experiment most of us learned in university long ago.

    My point is that women have competing strategies that are always in conflict to some degree. I think your point is that they are actually optimizing based on the signals they pick up – yawn, so what? That’s implied by what I said, clearly.

    What one needs to know about women, Eh, is that they change their choices much more readily than men do because they have competing strategies. And in today’s world, social conditioning and social adaptation have put that on a runaway trajectory to give women outsized opportunities to act on their hypergamous impulses. They pay little social cost for changing their minds today, whereas in the past, one could say that social norms existed in fact to restrain women from acting on their hypergamous natures as often.

    This is why you should understand their behavior versus their speech. Their neurology and biology, as opposed to what society tells us about them.

    For me, the field proves it all. When I treat women’s hypergamous nature as it is, relationships with women go like butter, and they seem to enjoy it. When I try to rationalize or make it about me or anything else, relationships go haywire. When I take it seriously, or internalize any of it as about me, I fail. Understanding that women are actually tortured by their hypergamous nature helps too.. If you find an honest woman who isn’t a radfem cunt, and get to know her deeply, you will see her hypergamy driving her nutz.

  56. Patient: Doctor, kiss me please!
    Doctor: No, it’s unethical…
    Patient: I’m begging, please!
    Doctor: Look, I shouldn’t even be fucking you.

    Speaking of fucking…St. Valentine’s Day and all.

    Thinking a bit. If I’d want to shake up a dead bedroom this would be the day, Beta expectations are high (drip-drip), she expecting some display of provisioning, and both will be disappointed.

    What would I do to start her hamster running, claw back some frame?

    I’d buy flowers, bring them to work and give them to nobody, just put them on the table, sealed card attached. Watch the women try to guess. I keep the receipt, and none to discretely have wife find it, today, tomorrow, whenever. I’d wouldn’t buy wife one thing though. Let her say Happy Valentine’s Day first, then I’d reply…”back at ‘cha”. To hell she’s not expecting something, and if she gets nothing, not even a sly wink, she’s wondering why.

    If she throws the receipt in my face, she’s all overt, she’s stepping into my frame. If she’s quiet, she’s hamstering bad. Both are a step in the right direction.

  57. you will see her hypergamy driving her nutz.

    Happiness is a male construct. You need to triumph and overcome to really feel it and appreciate it. For women, first order biological success is having a kid, propagation. How can she truly be happy when the bar is set so low, she merely needs to lay back for a bit…

  58. re: V Day – I know my HB9 plate has started seeing a new guy and she’s all fucked up about me as a result, lol. So for V day, I tell her I don’t do v-day and in short order she’s telling me how hot the idea of “no safe word rape” is. She says she keeps thinking about it and fantasizing about me raping her since we talked about it first about a week ago. This is based on my planting the idea in her head that that having no safe word makes it much hotter and this has been grinding away at her libido ever since, for like a week. I don’t know deets of new guy, and don’t want them or ask. She does this every few months, and they worship her etc, lol. And she gets bored and sick of them, even as she’ll complain to me, “Why don’t you worship me?” It’s hypergamy in all of its glory.

    I don’t discuss any of this overtly with her, I could tell there was a new guy by her behavior. This time I’m so much more Red Pill and Game-i-fied that I’m setting the other guy up from the outset. I decided to draw a huge contrast between me and the salivating guy who puts her on a pedestal for V day. It’s already fucking with her, as she cannot understand why I don’t flip out. It’s Boyfriend Destroyer, basically and it’s more fun than you’ll ever know. I bet he’s going over the top for V-day, while all she gets from me is dirty talk about raping her. Lol…

    You see, I know it’s her hypergamy at work and use it to my advantage. It really is becoming unfair, like I now have moved beyond just reacting Red Pill to running long term gambits and scenarios. And she loves it, she loves being caught up in my world as it’s interesting and exciting and tittilates her. I like being the alpha dog in her life more and more.

    At first, it was so uncomfortable being this guy. I messed it up lots of times with numerous girls but now? This is just who I am. She sent me a very sexy pic of her on her knees this morning after our exchange about rape, just to put a smile on my face for the day, lol. I know that when she sees the other guy, his “worship” will just undermine him. He he. It’s so cool, it’s like having the magic password or something. And even if she doesn’t, I’m good. I’m working on my HB7 goth spinner and other projects and she’s just a “Next” if she doesn’t fit my needs. Plenty of ass in the world…

  59. @ Scribblerg Thanks for your input. Your depth, breadth of knowledge, combined with your confidence benefits all.

    Not everyone went to college, tho. Perhaps I skipped that class, too. I don’t remember everything. If I got under someone’s skin, it’s what I literally do for a living.

    “They pay little social cost for changing their minds today…”

    Women are looking for a hypergamous solution, well, the best they can get. They’re not finding it. Serial monogamy, divorce isn’t a solution, just a poor proxy for what they’d prefer. Consider the suburban mother’s GNO FR I experienced. Are they happy? No. Social cost for single-life partying, drinking, dancing with me? Well, maybe not patently. The sexualized buzz wore off arriving home, assuredly.

    Their kids are grown, and women nurtured on FI lies have nothing to sustain themselves after their sexual value drops, their betatized men check out.

    Are young single women, delaying marriage, happy with the dearth of suitable Alpha marriage partners? No. The incessant female mewling of commitment-phobes is a good example. Increased female social protections, wealth are hollow substitutes to kids, family.

    There is a cost, but female pride, stakes and incentives are too high to admit it. They can’t imagine reversing course, and flatly don’t know how even if they wanted to.

    IMO, it’s up to us, not them.

    “Stevenson and Wolfers discovered that American women rated their overall life satisfaction higher than men in the 1970s. Thereafter, women’s happiness scores decreased while men’s scores stayed roughly stable. By the 1990s, women were less happy than men. This relative unhappiness softened after the turn of the century, but men continue to enjoy a higher sense of subjective wellbeing that is at least as high — if not higher — than women’s.”

    Increasing female dissatisfaction is a symptom of the social cost women pay for the artificial FI combined with natural hypergamy.

    Tough break.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/may/18/womens-rights-happiness-wellbeing-gender-gap

    Scribblerg, thanks for bringing this up. Again, I slept through much of college and don’t remember everything.

  60. @Eh – Still not sure you are getting my point. Let me be emphatic;

    THE ISSUE IS THAT WOMEN HAVE TWO MATING STRATEGIES.
    THIS MAKES THEIR INTERNALS CONFLICTED ALL THE TIME.
    SOCIETY HAS REMOVED MOST CONSTRAINTS FROM THEM ACTING ON EITHER IMPULSE.

    In fact, today’s social conditioning hands women just as many lies as it feeds men. And while it may work for women in certain collective ways, it’s not making them happier as you point out.

    For men this means that women will be more volatile and entitled, so your alpha behavior has to be super sharp. MPO is central, as the rest are just tactics. As your MPO deepens and hardens, the range of actions you can take in any situation just increase geometrically. You will be choosing how to act, not reacting. You will be seeing the “chess board” in social situations and play the game to your advantage instead of just showing up and winging it. Take the note I just posted on my HB9. Sure, I get Blue Pill impulses to put her up on a pedestal or to internalize how “valuation” of me, lol. Nope – that shit doesn’t even get to the starting line in my head anymore. Barely happens, and then the wisp of a BP impulse comes along I kind of laugh. I think through where it will take me and why I feel that way and I just laugh. It’s so clear.

    The best part of TRP is the massive increase agency that I feel, the lack of confusion or overwhelm, that sense of my own power and worth, it’s just priceless. Even if I choose to do nothing with it, it’s so much better to live this way.

    I still get to have dreams and goals and to feel entitled to everything I want. Amazing, truly amazing.

  61. when I read Scribs latest postings this is what I’m seeing in my head:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcUmoLu6psw

    I’d like to point out that what we’re witnessing is not easy to find anywhere. Most men here are either still mired in BP or have been RP for a while. Scribblerg is giving us a live feed of what happens during and just after the transition. Still fresh in his mind are his fairly recent BP ways which can be — with wonderful articulation — contrasted with his adoption of RP: what he would have done (BP) vs. what he is doing now.

    Thanks Scrib, I wish I could be a fly on the wall during some of your episodes related here.

  62. @scrib

    THE ISSUE IS THAT WOMEN HAVE TWO MATING STRATEGIES.
    THIS MAKES THEIR INTERNALS CONFLICTED ALL THE TIME.
    SOCIETY HAS REMOVED MOST CONSTRAINTS FROM THEM ACTING ON EITHER IMPULSE.

    clarifying (I hope) for new readers…

    two mating strategies…alpha fucks and beta bucks

    conflicting internals…seeking both alphas and betas

    I have a natural buddy who wanted a girl for a relationship…she’s a nympho, lol…of course, he doesn’t understand women, but he THINKS he does…he’s very smart, but young…has lots notches, of course…Blue Pill in many ways…he thinks that young hotties don’t want old guys, lol…”why would she want an old guy when she can have a young guy”…he projects his sexual attraction on women…solipsistic…he’s messed up from a really fucked up childhood…even worse than yours, believe it or not…he was on the streets with his younger brother when he was very young…lived in drug houses to survive…mother physically abused him and called him “stupid”, “worthless”, told him she wished she had aborted him, his dad was absent…he was viciously beaten by black gangs in school…his mother was a doper

    anyway, he wanted a particular girl for a relationship…she was hot…he told her early that he had feelings for her…strong beta signal…she got cold to him…he was very charming towards her and eventually recovered from his misstep and got into the alpha fucks path…he expected her to not lie or cheat…he expected her to have honor, lol…the point is, my buddy gave conflicted signals…both alpha and beta…and the girl told him that she kept having a hard time figuring out how she felt about him…conflicted feelings because of conflicting signals from my buddy

    I told my buddy that the girl has to be the one to bring up exclusivity and a relationship…he brought them up first…strong beta signal in today’s world…I told him that the girl has to chase for both sex AND a relationship or it won’t work…and you still have to train them to mate guard themselves so that you don’t have to worry about it…worrying about it constantly is a strong beta signal…taking it upon yourself to constantly mate guard your mate is a strong beta signal…most of today’s young women don’t want to mate guard themselves and don’t know how and the culture’s messages of Girls Night Out, EatPrayLove and the cultural e-media availability of women due to facebook and texting militate against women mate guarding themselves

  63. @ scrib

    How do you know your gf isn’t auto-mate guarding, not screwing the other guy? Does it matter?

    How much infidelity would it take for you to break it off?

  64. @Zip – Thanks man, I’m glad you get something out of my posts. I like the image of a “feed” of my transformation. I’m on the other side now after an agonizing few years as long timers here know. I guess it just hit me, like this instant – my BP self is dead, fuck that stupid cunt, I hated him, lol…

    @Eh – Did you say “gf”? Lol, she’s not a gf, she’s a plate. Fidelity is off the table. I’ve never had a problem with fuckbuddies having BFs or whatever, as long as there is no drama. Also, the sexual safety issue has to be addressed, which it is with my HB9.

    I suspect you may be right about the auto-mate guarding, I think she feels very conflicted about all this. She doesn’t understand why she wants me because I won’t worship or chase, among many other things. I fry her circuits. I also did my best to undermine the guy but his behavior does matter too. Let’s say he’s a PUA, he’s not going to give beta tells. But if he does, lol, he’s toast.

    As for when to kick a bitch to the curb? Answer: Whenever you feel like it

  65. @Eh – Also, “the juice has to be worth the squeeze”, yeah? My tolerance for a woman’s BS is directly related to how much value she has to me. The HB9? A nymphomaniac with no gag reflex, who craves my come and loves anal. Lol, that’s valuable…She also knows how to leave me the fuck alone, and at this point is trained and has submitted to me, so when she does get dramatic it fizzles out and she apologizes without me asking her too.

    She’s also very sweet and not a dummy, pretty well read etc. I can’t post pics here, but she’s breathtakingly sexy. I showed a couple to @Softek when we were skyping, he can vouch. Maybe some dimensions will help. She’s a size zero, 30E breasts, natural, 22 inch waist, weighs between 100 and 110. Very low bodyfat but not emaciated, she eats well in fact. Long, soft, flowing hair.

    Most importantly, and this is one of the biggest shifts for me since learning game, she’s super into me. I focus only on women who express interest and attraction. And my “game” is about fanning the flames of that into full blown submission and adoration.

    I’ve always fucked very hot women as I simply don’t have the energy to put up with an average woman’s crap. The second some HB6 starts getting out of line I just fade. But a gorgeous women who’s hoping I’ll rape her without a safe word next visit? Yeah, she’s worth a bit of wrangling and effort, although even that has to be enjoyable or I’m gone.

  66. @ scribblerg

    “Also, the sexual safety issue has to be addressed, which it is with my HB9.”

    Honest question: How’s this? How’d you address it? Considering women’s fickle natures, how do you know if she’s moved on from her answer or she wants to fuck you so bad she’ll agree to anything?

    Women will lie to keep an Alpha..the whole faking orgasm more in an Alpha fucks scenario to keep him around, is one example.

    At any rate, sounds like you’re satisfied and what’s Rocephin for anyways, if not the clap?

    http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2012/08/10/158464908/gonorrhea-evades-antibiotics-leaving-only-one-drug-to-treat-disease

  67. @Eh – Managed this stuff for decades with women. Got chlamydia once – the first girl I ever fucked in 1980, and some kind of other skin parasite that had to be removed by a skin doc, took 5 mins. I’ve had GFs who had Herpes and didn’t catch it.

    Of course, everyone lies about sex. So, use condoms. And flush them afterwards. As for faking Os, lol, I think you’ve got it exactly backwards. Women don’t have to fake Os with an alpha who’s properly fucking her. When you are an alpha for her, she gets super excited. These days, girls come just by fucking me without me going crazy and seem much more turned on.

    Here’s the other thing. I have always liked sluts. And they come with hazards so I don’t kid myself. But in the main, I’ve always managed this stuff pretty well. But yeah, there are risks.

  68. @Eh – Rollo cites a stat about women faking more with alphas without attribution but I’ll accept it. The rationale being she wants to keep the alpha, I guess it makes sense.

    My take was that women do this to deal with the guys who are so insecure and turn sex into yet another measure of their value and obsess about it – and kill the vibe. 40mins later your tongue has gone numb, your neck is cramped and she’s getting sore and bored, so she fakes it. The girls I’ve talked to about it said this kind of situation is why, but I’ve only had a serious convo about it with 2 girls. So, there it is.

    And of course, you can tell a real orgasm by the leg tremors, and other involuntary convulsive behavior by the body. I also don’t worry so much about her orgasm all the time. Sure, at times I’ll go wild but generally girls get off while fucking me since taking the Red Pill, he he. I had one woman’s vadge go into a 5 minute vaginal convulsion, locking around my cock. I merely treated her like the filthy slut she was and verbally denigrated her. I never spoke to a woman that way in my life and according to her it was the best orgasm she ever had. I found her annoying so I hate fucked her and told her how filthy she was, what a slut she was to be letting me fuck her, and this made her explode sexually.

    As Yogi Bera would say, “90% of sex is 100% mental”. Also consider that if she isn’t dripping hot for you that you are doing it wrong…Like if you have to use lube vaginally something is deeply wong. Of course, i’m talking pre-menopausal…

  69. @Sentient – For the moment when she’s playing that uke and sings, “Women are divine”, it’s like a signal that the endpoint of all this insanity has been reached. When a woman could actually act this way and say what she says, well, yeah, one could say “we’ve arrived” at the terminal point of our culture and society.

  70. @Prometheus

    Don’t we in the manosphere identify as victims? Isn’t our oppressors women and the feminine imperative? Do they not steal our homes, our children and our income on a whim?

    If we fight back, we’re incarcerated. If we speak out (in public) we’re ostracized.

    The link you provided, could so easily, apply to us.

  71. ” Victimhood ” is all a matter of details as far as the attribution goes.

    Even in the article, the author cluster-fucked the description of the Palestinian situation because of a total and complete lack of clear understanding of past history. Hell, he even lacked an understanding of current ( at the time ) history.

    People that bad shit isn’t being done to either are able to empathize, or they cannot. Period. Most human beings, taken as large groups, turn empathy off. Easier to cope with life and hold on to false fantasies that way. If bad shit is happening to you, then you somehow deserve it because you are a bad person, stupid, or inept in a dozen ways.

    Status Quo motherfuckas!!!!!!!!! Lol.

    I don’t see a lot of victimhood in the sphere. There’s some that pops up from time to time, and guys love to latch onto themes occasionally. What I see metric shit tons of is FEAR and misunderstanding .

    Women are not ever our oppressors.
    The FI is oppressive, but not our oppressor.

    I’ll abstain from the whole stealing of homes, income and children thing. It’s not ( yet ) the norm, but it is a massive problem, especially when it’s been perpetrated on you.

    I am an amateur boxer of sorts. There is more than one way to fight. Society gets a hard on forcing men to submit. Ask me how I know…lol. You will bend and yield and fucking come to heel. This is not women doing thusly .It is ” society ” catering to women. More succinctly, it is Men catering to women. So yeah, if one chooses to fight back in the traditional sense of fighting back, incarceration is most likely the outcome.

    Knowledge put into practice is an alternative.

    Ostracized? By whom?

    Do you depend upon society at large so much that you can be ostracized? I don’t even comprehend that scenario.

    So easy with throwing around that ” us ” designation.

    Real Talk – Your ass is born into this world alone and crying. There’s always a chance you could leave it the exact same way. Does that shit sound appealing? No? Then recognize the real shit, excise the bullshit, strengthen your mind and body and prepare for the worse and the absolute best. But that shit about someone doing something to you…. that shit’s annoying after a while.

    Bring bitches and other motherfuckers into your frame, or eliminate them from your life altogether and keep it fucking moving.

    Then reward yourself with some delicious ice cream.

  72. If Hector had been an oppressed victim, Achilles would not have wasted his time to take the field and kill him.

    Likewise, Hector would not have presented himself to die at the hands of a mere oppressor.

  73. If Hector hadn’t of killed Ajax and Achilles hadn’t of felt the need to avenge his death, then Hector wouldn’t have fallen at the hands of antiquity’s greatest warrior.
    A small matter of honor, forced Hector to accept Achilles’ challenge.

    Oppression has nothing to do with it.

    Glad to see you haven’t relinquished your position as TRM’s resident simpleton.

  74. @ Sam Botta

    Thank you for your commentary about estradiol. My wife has returned to this as her off and on HRT. She goes off because she says it makes her fat and she experiences short-temperedness. She settled back into this regimen after a bad experience with a quack bio-identical doctor who prescribed supplements to bring her hormones to zero to get a baseline. She quit this after a few days as the side effects were like chemotherapy. I am going to encourage her to seek the doctor you recommend.

    @ All

    Commenters may have felt that encouraging my wife to take HRT is callously exposing her to cancer risk, but this is not true. In my wife’s particular case, cancer does not run in her family—it’s endocrine and respiratory issues that are the weak spots in her DNA. The list that Sam provided, that appears to be based on Rollo’s post “Fog of Menopause”, exemplifies that there is not a safe path one can choose.

    Also, part of my original comment that was not quoted was a statement that men would choose to keep their balls even if the cancer risk was 50/50. So far, no man has come forward to refute this. Some longevity proponents suggest that men could live longer lives as eunuchs. I guess I am not alone in believing that this would not be life as we know it.

    A distinction should be made concerning the motivation (in addition to the FI pushing for it) for sexual retirement—whether it’s forced or voluntary. For example, Christopher Reeve was forced into retirement after a catastrophic accident left him a quadriplegic. The effect that Rollo was pointing to is what I would liken to the football career of Deion Sander. He had an exemplary career with the Falcons, 49ers and Cowboys. Then, he went to the Redskins for a big payday (his beta provider). Retired, and then came back to play for the Ravens for 2 more years (with much more effort that he had for the beta provider from whom he had retired).

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