For Better or Worse

betterorworse

Before I dive in here today it’s going to be important to put things into perspective with respect to an Old Married Guy becoming Red Pill aware and then applying what he’s learned in his marriage. In the last few comment threads the discussion has veered to what exactly the state of “monogamy” (if it can be called that) will look like in the next few decades given Red Pill awareness, Open Hypergamy, the progression of technologies that conflict with (or exacerbate) our evolved capacity to reproduce, etc.

The conversation tends to be a back and forth between what a more feasible and pragmatic approach to long-term relationships might be. The Young Single Guys make a (rather convincing) case for some form of men reserving the option of non-exclusivity; to take on short term lovers should the opportunity present itself – even if for just protecting a man’s state of Frame. Dread, being what it is, would necessarily be a mutually understood cornerstone of this arrangement.

The OMGs who’ve had the benefit of experience with respect to living with women (and in some cases divorces), rearing children (for better or worse) then offer up the realities of what a pLTR might be limited by with respect to actually living in an arrangement like this and the legal ramifications it leaves men open to.

Hashing out what Marriage 3.0 will or should look like is a discussion I’ll reserve for the next essay. For now I think it’s going to be important for that debate to recognize that since Red Pill awareness, in the intersexual respect, is a relatively new social awareness there’s always going to be differing experiences with it.

For the young men who’ve had the benefit of being Red Pill aware and learning Game, courtesy of communication technology and the experiences of countless other older men, it may sound kind of mundane when an Old Married Guy (OMG) finally ‘gets it’ after being Blue Pill for so long. But while you may never consider getting married in the future, you will no doubt get older and hopefully wiser in a way that your elders never had the benefit of. The reason I wrote Preventive Medicine was to do just this; to teach men what to expect from women and their sexual strategies and prioritization at their various phases of maturity. However, I would be remiss not to take into consideration what YSGs relate about the realities of today’s sexual marketplace. I think between us we have a very powerful knowledge-base.

As I said, for YSGs, it may seem mundane for a formerly Blue Pill OMG to kick up his wife’s sexual interest with his new Red Pill awareness, but consider that to him the Red Pill is an exciting answer to a long struggle. Likewise, an older guy reeling from an ugly divorce and rebuilding an even better life and sex life with Red Pill awareness is a fantastic feeling that I think is hard for YSGs to empathize with.

Instant Gratification

In my Stalling for Time essay I quoted reader YaReally and his understandable frustration with dealing with women in what’s become the modern sexual marketplace. I won’t re-quote it here, but the gist of it was how women of this generation are so predisposed to the attentions that social media offers them. The immediacy of social affirmation is just an Instagram post away and Beta orbiters are now a utility women simply take for granted.

It’s important to understand this in the light of how women’s psyches interpret instantaneous affirmation, as well as instantaneous indignation, attention and emotional consolation from both Beta orbiters and ‘you go girl’ girlfriends. I should also point out that there’s an even uglier side to this equation for women and girls who find themselves social outcasts. The cruel venom from haters is equally as instantaneous and likewise women’s evolved psyches struggle to process this.

As is the theme of this series, we have a situation wherein technological advancement outpaces human capacity to adequately process how it is affecting us. In this case we have women’s solipsistic nature that prevents the insight necessary to self-govern themselves with regard to how instant gratification of their base needs for attention is affecting their personalities and the decisions they make because of it. Prior to the communication age women’s need for interpersonal affirmation was generally limited to a small social circle and the opportunities to satisfy it were precious and private. It used to require far more investment on the part of women to connect interpersonally. But in the space of just two generations the social media age has made this affirmation an expect part of a woman’s daily life.

On top of this, we find ourselves in a time when feminine-primacy in our social structure makes criticizing or even making casual, constructive, observations of this self-gratifying vanity on par with misogyny for men. Women cannot hear what men wont tell them, and women have far less incentive to self-examine the consequences of what this affirmation-satisfying attention is working in them.

The Open Hypergamy Future

I get what the Young Single Guys are saying, I really do. I linked this article in a recent comment and after reading through it and author’s blog I can’t help but sympathize with the YSG’s grasp of the modern dating scene and how utterly hopeless it is for men to expect anything less than complete, life altering despair from the prospect of marriage. There is no upside to monogamous commitment, but the real kicker is that this condition is what women plan for and would hope for their own daughters.

Now, I understand Emma Johnson is another click-bait outrage broker, but is the sentiment her reader relates in raising her daughter to expect to be a single mother as an ideal state all that difficult or shocking to believe from women in this era?

My dream for my daughter is that she be in a loving relationship, and have a good ex-husband who really does a great job with the kids, 50 percent of the time.

People forget the joys of divorce — sharing your kids without guilt and having alone/me time.

[…]I also have time to exercise, enjoy vacations that are relaxing and involve lots of book-reading, and I have had time to nurture a relationship with my new husband, with fewer of the stresses of blended families.

The idealized state is one in which I outlined in The Myth of the Good Guy:

The problem with this ‘Good Guy’ myth is not because men can’t or wouldn’t want to try to balance women’s Hypergamy for them, but simply because women neither want nor expect that balance in the same man to begin with.

This is a new step in Open Hypergamy, the acknowledgement and proud embrace of women’s Hypergamous sexual strategy is not enough. The open expectation that one man will father and support her children while another will satisfy her sexually and appreciatively is not enough. The plan is literally to raise a young woman to adulthood with the expectation of her raising another child without a father/husband in her life and the child’s. We’re left to presume that the preferred norm for raising boys will be in teaching them it’s their responsibility to accommodate this norm.

The plan is not simply to end the Sandbergian plan for Hypergamy with the “Equal partner, someone who thinks women should be smart, opinionated and ambitious who values fairness and expects or, even better, wants to do his share in the home.” The plan is to leave that well-providing Beta once he’s been locked into indefinite utility and take up with a sexier husband with fewer parental stresses.

Yet, despite the overtness of women’s Hypergamy, men still have an idealistic hope that the worst predations of women wont happen to them. Read this woman’s post, sift through her other posts; she’s despicable, calculating, duplicitous and would put the knife in your back she told you she would,…but she’s also honest.

Whether by our conditioning or some intrinsic idealism, we want to believe in the earnestness of the Old Set of Books in the face of New Book women openly telling us “You stupid men, this is what we plan to do to you from the outset. Naked, open Hypergamy and all its machinations is what I will teach my daughters and grand daughters to do to your sons and grandsons. And you will take it and accept your Alpha Fucks or Beta Bucks roles in all of it because you’ll never get past your inherent idealism that we might not do all of this.”

We want to believe this woman is an outlier, but by order of degree, we know that whether it’s with softly spoken, loving words or a mommy blog that triumphantly yells these truths, women’s opportunistic concept of love will never align with our idealistic concept of love.

Primary LTRs

The arrangement this woman is hoping will be her daughter’s adult life is not too far different from what YaReally was suggesting about pLTRs; a primary long term relationship with a direct or indirect understanding that a man could take other lovers as fits him. He’s not the first to suggest the pLTR scheme as a workaround for marriage or raising a family sans marriage or binding commitment. And if Emma Johnson (or the reader she’s quoted) is to be believed this would be her own ideal relationship, albeit from the perspective of a woman retaining total Frame control.

Even a PUA like Mystery believed he could maintain a literal harem in some kind of live-in pLTR. And then there are the men who subscribe to the Charles Bukowski school of intersexual relations – in the right socioeconomic conditions this pLTR is realtively possible, but I think this is a poor substitute for what, as men we’d like to be an ideal, reciprocal marriage in which men can expect respect, desire, love, honor and all the other words no woman could ever hope to recite from their marriage vows.

I’ve locked horns with more than a few women who want to take me to task over my debating that human beings are not naturally monogamous. From a social perspective, loose monogamy and women’s inherent need for cuckoldry has always conflicted with our more or less successful human progress based on monogamous marriage. This is changing right along with the latest technologies that afford it to. As such, men are also forced to adapt and improvise with women’s inabilities to process these changes and the rapidity with which the next ones occur.

The old gals always like to tout that western society is the result of our agrarian roots and monogamous way of life. This is ironic since it’s women themselves who’ve fought tooth and nail to destroy exactly this ‘successful’ set up. Ruthless, open Hypergamy is now something to be proud of; something to instruct our daughters to utilize for their own solipsistic, selfish betterment at men’s expense – and to feel no shame for it, but rather expect it as the future norm.

It’s now time for men to either accept and adapt to this, or to form our own response to it in a way that not only benefits our interests, but the interests of women who can no longer process these changes without mens’ direct instruction. In Our Sisters’ Keeper I explored the notion that women of today are merely the women we deserve because men have kept their counsel about the affairs of women. We’ve got the women we deserve because our silence, and the silence of our forbearers, was the voice of complicity. Now we’ve come so far that women will send a man to jail or the unemployment office, or a paternity court rather than hear a man criticize her inability to process social changes that harm not only her but the larger social order.

There must come a point where men must unapologetically correct women for the betterment of society. Today this is a bold statement, one that could likely bring consequences to man’s life, but it’s only a bold thought because we’ve allowed women and their imperatives define the Frame of our social order for so long now. The socio-intersexual conditions we find ourselves in today are the direct result of women’s inability to process rapid social changes. As men we need to collectively recognize this. We need to recognize also that our social state is the result of allowing women to set a social framework that indentures men, that calls single motherhood and Hypergamous choices normative ideals.

We also need to recognize that we will be reviled for presuming some patriarchal control or male privilege, but we must have the confidence to set this aside in the knowledge that we now understand that women cannot cope with post-modern social and technological changes.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ othergrain

From my observations and experiences, a man might stand more of a chance during divorce.

Courts don’t really give a shit about men in general, but baby daddys are looked upon with a special kind of contempt. I’ve watched judges dress down poor guys standing in front of them, and threaten to lock them up asap. Never heard of such things during a divorce proceeding. Never.

Neither scenario is optimal for men at all, but damn, look at the list I provided. Anyone want to voluntarily plan to sign up for that potentiality?

Mitigating risk? Really??

Novaseeker
6 years ago

We have a more permissive morality and yet guys are getting laid less than ever. Right — which actually makes sense from a red pill perspective. When the sexual culture becomes more permissive, there are on the margins more NSA type sexual encounters. NSA type sexual encounters are very selective when it comes to the males who are permitted access to them, as we know. So the total permissiveness increasing, leads to marginally more NSA sex, but the male participation in NSA sex is quite restricted because when women participate in NSA sex they are generally quite picky about whom… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ YaReally

Just for clarification, I do not live in ” The Ghetto “. Stop overreaching with the veiled insults.

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

“While it’s arguable whether that effect is negligible (I’m guessing it is, guys with experience here weigh in…) that could certainly be considered a benefit to marriage.”

Divorce would definitely be a pain in the ass. Is that Blax’s argument? I still can’t even tell what he is arguing. Every time I think I know what he’s saying he says “I never said anything about marriage or monogamy!”

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“HEY MEN READING ALONG, DO YOU FING AVOIDING THE THINGS LISTED ABOVE HELPFUL??”

Hey, men, don’t pay any attention to all of that alarmist crap. It’s just facts and shit. Current, 2016 facts.

Ya Really has ya covered. Ya see, in his plan, he intends to tell you to expect all of that eventually, so you can prepare for walking down a corridor of frickin’ laser beams by wearing a suit of armour made from tissue paper.

Relax, you’re covered.

Fred Flange and his Rhythm & Melody
Fred Flange and his Rhythm & Melody
6 years ago

Hey Scrib I thought I was just pontificating back on page 1 with where I thought the near future would go (and the seed of a possible comeback) when I said this:

https://therationalmale.com/2016/09/25/for-better-or-worse/#comment-171005

But the data you found – milennials getting less jiggy despite tolerance of hookup type sex, with only the high HB’s actually getting any of it – provides a solid backstopping for my bloviation. Impressive find. Keep it up.

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

“Hey, men, don’t pay any attention to all of that alarmist crap. It’s just facts and shit. Current, 2016 facts.”

@kfg

Can we have a fucking discussion about a new approach? Jesus. Replication is a biological drive. Guys are going to have kids no matter what the conditions are. Marriage isn’t working… so, why not try SOMETHING DIFFERENT?

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ kfg ” Hey, men, don’t pay any attention to all of that alarmist crap. It’s just facts and shit. Current, 2016 facts. Ya Really has ya covered. Ya see, in his plan, he intends to tell you to expect all of that eventually, so you can prepare for walking down a corridor of frickin’ laser beams by wearing a suit of armour made from tissue paper. Relax, you’re covered.” Lol. I thought maybe I could talk him down from his crazy perch, but he just kept doubling down. The thing about being old and feeble minded ( okay… I… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Scribbs “Love to hear what you guys think.” As I’ve said all along, it’s a problem with the men. Of course if you take those stats at face value you would also conclude that if you are one of the fewer and fewer guys who has enough value to be seen by women as sex worthy, you would also have enough value (wielded correctly) to keep her interest and THAT is your mitigant. But that will be reduced down to “be alpha 24/7 bro”, which is an attempt to denigrate but does not even deny that alpha is the solution,… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ Andy

Go read my list first.

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

@Blax

Yeah. Fucked up. Debtors prison basically. Pretty sure everything on your list will apply to the father marriage or no marriage. The argument isn’t necessarily about the law. It’s about keeping the relationship together. YaReally’s point is that nobody gives a shit about marriage anymore. It doesn’t mean anything to anyone. All we’ve ever seen from marriage is nasty divorces, co-dependence, and unhappiness. Why not try something new?

othergrain
othergrain
6 years ago

@scribblerg I think it’s the 80/20 shifting to 90/10 combined with men dropping out because they’re satisfied with porn. Is the entire decline due to milenial men? Probably not, but I think it accounts for most of it. ” I think a lot of PUA is about subtly signaling intent and her subtly signaling interest but in fact, it’s self selecting for girls who have a lot of sex most times, who are more willing, the “yes girls” if you will.” This sounds an awful lot like Madonna/whore PUA only works on bar sluts…which I know you don’t beleive 😉… Read more »

Vanir (@Vanir85)
6 years ago

“But when society views hand the way vanir does…and she is constantly exposed to that view…an uphill battle is an understatement.” -othergrain Yes. Being a misogynist who considers it men’s natural role to control women, is bad – despite what you may have been able to convince each other in this male-supremacist echo chamber. The healthy response to such a man, is to refuse his attempts at domination – and to get the hell away from him asap. [Still no valid arguments from you. All you’ve done since your first comment is point and sputter with no cogent counter to… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ Andy ” ..Why not try something new?” Dude, have you read what his ” something new ” is? Something new is mitigating risk by having a kid in a pLtr. Only, the risks may be even worse. I know you admire Ya a whole bunch. Maybe you should roll back a few pages and in the previous post…and the one before that one to understand that the discussion moved well beyond marriage, yet he kept circling back to it. Yeah, yeah, yeah… I know. No one cares about marriage anymore ( I attended 3 useless weddings this year )… Read more »

othergrain
othergrain
6 years ago

Andy

It wasn’t something blax was specifically arguing for at the time, just a small thing in one of his comments that seemed to go unnoticed. But when asking for actual benefits to marriage in this age, I thought it was an interesting point to bring up, whether realistic or not…

Need time to read your last post blax, I swear the amount you all write… don’t any of you fuckers work during the day? Lol

Matatan
Matatan
6 years ago

“The healthy response to such a man, is to refuse his attempts at domination – and to get the hell away from him asap” So who exactly are you trying to convince of that? Not me I guess. I doubt if any of the other guys here are open to this argument. And the women already believe it in large part and anyway they aren’t exactly the target audience of this blog. So what are you trying to achieve with your drivel? Serious question because to me you are confirming some red pill concepts if you are a woman (and… Read more »

Vanir (@Vanir85)
6 years ago

“So what is your goal here? What do you hope to achieve?” -Matatan If possible, to give a much needed injection of “women are people and not for you to control” into this echo chamber. Tho I doubt I’ll be successful (or accomplish anything beyond looking like a silly leftist) you’re all pretty hooked on the red kool-aid. Tho i wonder what “red pill concept” i’m proving by arguing that women are not for men to control, and that the right response to a man trying is to get away from him? Women (you think I’m a woman) will deny… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ scrib

Interesting study.

I’ve given this some thought in the past, but haven’t ever been able to draw any conclusions.

Even though the paper sites little change among African Americans, I still notice that young males are not as ” driven ” for lack of a better term, as I was at their age.

Maybe it is in some way tied to many women’s self inflated SMV’s is some manner. Maybe something chemically has happened. I’m half serious about that.

It appears that I have much more thinking and observation to do to begin to flesh this out.

Matatan
Matatan
6 years ago

“Tho i wonder what “red pill concept” i’m proving by arguing that women are not for men to control”

And with that you have confirmed you are a woman, as opposed to be an FI indoctrinated man. Thanks.

I stopped discussing with my own wife because it was pointless and started making decisions, and we have a lot less arguments since then. So I’m certainly not going to waste any more time with you.

I wish you the best and hope you find your place in life, whatever that met be.

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

@Blax – Not quite sure what your overarching point is but laying out the book on child support is really helpful for young guys. It’s family court and the support issues and custody and payments and everything else that is a mindfuck and minefield. Visitation and where she can live and the new guy(s) and how to handle holidays and so many other things, it’s just a complete and ongoing nightmare. When you have kids, divorce is a disaster for a man. Ya wanna see a grown man cry? Sit in the passenger seat of his car after he drops… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

“…I think his name is Vanir.”

Ohhhh shit.

Lmao!!!!!

I spit my Orange Juice on that one.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ scrib

I think that guys that have not gone through it, or at least even witnessed it firsthand cannot even fathom just how awfully fucked up it is.

Nothing that they’ve ever done so far in life could prepare them for it. There is no preparing for it.

Softek
Softek
6 years ago

@ Blax “Maybe something chemically has happened. I’m half serious about that.” Testosterone levels are on the decline, and have been for a long time. I have a genetic mutation that I take supplements for, and if I don’t take them I become suicidally depressed within 1-2 weeks. Like clockwork. Chemicals make a huge, huge difference. Technology use also affects the brain. Heavily. Regular use of Internet porn can absolutely change men’s brains, just as regular use of social media can absolutely change women’s brains. Your brain can actually come to prefer Internet porn to real women. I’ve experienced this,… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

@Andy: “Can we have a fucking discussion about a new approach? ” Go read the last few threads first. “Marriage isn’t working… so, why not try SOMETHING DIFFERENT?” Go read the . . . oh, never mind. I have to be careful about revealing too much information about my life. I am Mr. Try Something Different and as a consequence am, as they say, “In the literature.” Simply giving you catalog information on my good bicycle would dox me. It is “different.” Unique in fact. College and major? You’re pretty close to having me. Exclusive and rare shit. Triangulate with… Read more »

Klem
Klem
6 years ago

@Blax

So your big cc’ed text is what happens when you are NOT married, but have kids and then break up with your gf?

Isn’t the same thing going to happen when you are married, have a divorce and fight for the custody of the kids?

It wasn’t very clear in your comment.

othergrain
othergrain
6 years ago

“The healthy response to such a man, is to refuse his attempts at domination – and to get the hell away from him asap”

If by healthy you mean natural, normal…I think you’ll find that women in the real world react quite differently. No matter what you believe to be true, the writings you find here are observable truths, whether you like it or not.

Softek
Softek
6 years ago

“The hour’s ending, can’t you see
There’s no way now to get free
In the shadow of the season
Without a reason to carry on
Without a reason, without a reason

And from the north woods down to the valley
In a world of hurting, I’m moving on
And from the lighthouse out on the ocean
Can’t climb the mountain, so very tall

Said Lord please give me what I need
He said there’s pain and misery
Oh, sweet oblivion feels all right”

Vanir (@Vanir85)
6 years ago

“All you have is straw men ”
-Rollo

Are you denying that you all seek to dominate and control women? That you see men’s role as one of “leading” and “correcting” women? If I have been wrong about that, I apologize. If not – nothing I have said has been a straw-man.

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

@Vanir:

You keep using words. I do not think they all mean what you think they mean.

In the meantime, while you work on your language skills, I’ve got something you can try to keep you busy:

Go back to your hive and tell them that the men have agreed and they are going away to leave women alone in total peace. See how that flies.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ klem ” So your big cc’ed text is what happens when you are NOT married, but have kids and then break up with your gf? Isn’t the same thing going to happen when you are married, have a divorce and fight for the custody of the kids? It wasn’t very clear in your comment.” Child support is pretty much the same across the board, except that during a divorce a man may not even get court ordered child support. It depends on individual factors. I know men that got divorced and did not have to pay alimony or court… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

@Klem:

No, that is a synopsis of some of the things that will happen to most men who end up in family court over issues of custody and support.

scray
scray
6 years ago

@sentient

“Those two go together and are ‘equal.’”
They are complementary, not equal.

no, they’re equal.

the man has a mate value equal to the woman’s –> EQUAL.

people do want mates with equal value. but each sex values different qualities in the other. whether that’s cultural or innate (TRP/manosphere jerk off a lot to innate stuff like it fucking matters so I include the possibility).

sfer
sfer
6 years ago

Yareally’s advice is the absolute best. It is the reason I am here. I am not sure that there is an answer to the issues that he is probing at with respect to kids though. The problem is how to use the skills one has at pickup honed through feedback in the field (failure and successes) and apply it to a one-shot situation with kids w/ no feedback. Marriages work pretty good for 4-7 years or so even if you are doing it wrong. So will any other alternate arrangement. How would you field test this? By the time you… Read more »

scray
scray
6 years ago

@Rollo

Yet, if a man were bold enough to correct women by daring to advise they prepare themselves to be acceptable for men he’s accused of misogyny, a fragile ego, being a chauvinits/supremacist and suspect of physical violence.
That’s the degree of control the FI has conditioned into our gender norms.

yeah that’s true.

ultimately, the way out is MGTOW + non-monogamous relationships.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

matatan Most of all, if you go into an LTR, make sure you are the dominant party by default, by being older, richer, wiser,stronger than your spouse. If you need her for pussy but she doesn’t need you for resources, you’re toast. This is still possible but is getting more difficult every day; women are often now their own betas. Not just lawyers or doctors, but government types, specialists, etc. The ongoing skew against men in higher education will only make that worse. Since she doesn’t need me for resources, I can no longer depend on her for pussy, so… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

@Vanir – Try “controlling” a woman, I dare you. As for being dominant, you are of course thinking of the word in a femcentric way. When women are dominant, it’s all ‘You go gurl’ and ‘Ban bossy’ – but when a man does it, it comes down to control and violence? Nope. The real problem is you are utterly ignorant of social dynamics and how they work. Dominance is a signal of high status in a group, and hence high survivability, good genetics and a high material wealth. Dominance means merely that other people defer to you – WILLINGLY –… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

Vanir

I’m keeping that purposefully vague – and I won’t get dragged into any discussions about it – so just don’t make anything of it.,

David Futrelle, is that you?

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
6 years ago

Vanir’s mindset is weird to me, and therefore a bit fascinating. We could argue indoctrination is involved, but I was exposed to some of the same inputs and they always seemed incorrect or foreign to me. Basically, it’s a mindset wherein non-rational human behaviors all register as some form of power play or coercion. That a lot of human interactions, decisions, and motivations simply do not engage conscious will or agency is missed; everything is a conscious yea or nea decision which, if violated, constitutes abuse or coercion. A huge spectrum of human behaviors simply don’t have much to do… Read more »

having a bad day
having a bad day
6 years ago

@scribblerg if you don’t mind, i’m going to use your comment to make some points… that are extremely hard to accept… largely bc they are so easy to understand…lol… @Blax – Not quite sure what your overarching point is but laying out the book on child support is really helpful for young guys. the overall point is just what i wrote in some prior thread to @Andy… = having a kid is an order of magnitude greater amount of potential ‘f*ked’ you will be if things go bad than just being ‘legal married’… bc the state is a 3rd party… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
6 years ago

Cross-posted with Scribb!

It’s not that he won’t get it. I believe that he actually can’t. There’s just this whole chunk of the fundamental human experience which he simply doesn’t have. That’s why there’s this simple but insuperable failure to compute.

If it’s trauma-based, it’ll take a bigger trauma to shake it out. If not, there’s probably nothing that can help. No, life isn’t fair.

Fred Flange and his Rhythm Method
Fred Flange and his Rhythm Method
6 years ago

Got my magic 8-ball back minus a headphone jack so here’s what it says about the trending data and the question presented: There’s a limited consensus, I think, that something like the Swedish model – with open doors for fuckee fuckee available to Chodemasters and branch-swinging GoGrrls – will be the cis-hetero relationship default. Maybe sprout a sprog maybe not. Pool resources if it makes sense but otherwise keep the money in the mattress. Marriage, as we said before, will be for gay folk, UMC legacy-preservation and arranged-marriages. Most men (50% 60%?) will drop out or have limited trim opportunities,… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
6 years ago

@Andy Why not try something new? Like what? I mean, I’m getting a bit frustrated with this whole affair because YaReally keeps just going after guys for some random-ass thing instead of coming up with ideas or listening to ideas. All the ideas which aren’t the sort of ideas he wants are derided. And frankly I’m having a hard time figuring out what sorts of ideas he would be satisfied with. Two things that an individual man cannot affect: -As soon as you have a child whose life you are the slightest involved in, the state has you over the… Read more »

having a bad day
having a bad day
6 years ago

@Forge

“I wrote a bunch last thread about how the formation of a unique family culture, wherein each member has unique daily responsibilities, is incredibly important in making a functional and stable family unit. I also brushed on how you might screen for a woman who is capable of forming such a unit with you. ”

that’s actually going to be an important part of this whole process, (and nice insight btw…) but we still haven’t even been able to agree on basic concepts/definitions…lol…

good luck!

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ Forge ” I also brushed on how you might screen for a woman who is capable of forming such a unit with you. None of this really got taken up into the conversation at all, we were just back to yelling about the same crap. So what do you have?” *sheepishly* I agreed with your point totally, and expanded just a little. Maybe it got lost in the walls of texts. I’m frustrated by the constant drumbeat alluding to the fact that everything is now dead . Granted, if a bunch of commenters all synced up and agreed that… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

TRIGGLYPUFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
comment image

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

The millennials not having much sex thing is still fucking with me. I tend to agree with novaseeker – “ When the sexual culture becomes more permissive, there are on the margins more NSA type sexual encounters. NSA type sexual encounters are very selective when it comes to the males who are permitted access to them, as we know. So the total permissiveness increasing, leads to marginally more NSA sex, but the male participation in NSA sex is quite restricted because when women participate in NSA sex they are generally quite picky about whom they do that with. So it… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori

Grass Eaters.

A Real Woman
A Real Woman
6 years ago

Vanir! Finally a man with some sense! It’s such a relief to see you.

Please, please, please tell these men more, tell them how sexy consent is, tell them how equality is such a turnon for all your many woman friends. You have lots and lots of women supporting you in secret.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

” Vanir! Finally a man with some sense! It’s such a relief to see you.

Please, please, please tell these men more, tell them how sexy consent is, tell them how equality is such a turnon for all your many woman friends. You have lots and lots of women supporting you in secret.”

[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6PuC6Tis1E&w=640&h=360%5D

YaReally
6 years ago

@Blaximus “I know men that got divorced and did not have to pay alimony or court ordered child support.” And we know men that have been divorced and have to pay alimony AND court ordered child support. Better that they only have to pay the child support. Do you have a reading/learning disability? How do I say “custody battles are definitely bad and worse than divorces, and legal marriage clearly doesn’t prevent custody battles or guarantee the father will get treated fairly” and you turn that into “I BETTER POST 400 PAGES OF HOW BAD FAMILY COURT IS”. We KNOW… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“I’m frustrated by the constant drumbeat alluding to the fact that everything is now dead .”

That doesn’t mean it can’t be reborn, if the hard, dirty and extremely risky work of starting a world is done.

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

@Scribbler and Forge the Sky Take this as not responding to the troll, but talking among ourselves on the topic of purported dominance. I’m speaking to red pill guys for perspective on the issue of dominance. ScribblerG: “Dominance is a signal of high status in a group, and hence high survivability, good genetics and a high material wealth. Dominance means merely that other people defer to you – WILLINGLY – you stupid fuck. In fact, I’ve never seen a woman happier than when she willingly submits and surrenders to a man’s dominance. https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2012/08/23/the-allure-of-male-dominance/#comment-362154 “The Allure Of Male Dominance August 23,… Read more »

Softek
Softek
6 years ago

Hikkikomori and the like exist on a spectrum. They’re extreme examples of what’s becoming more and more commonplace: social withdrawal with the help of technology (e.g. porn and videogames). I’m all for legalization of weed, but I can see how that would compound the problem as well. Not a reason to keep it illegal, but as a prediction…..throw weed into the mix with porn and videogames and you have a recipe for near complete sexual anesthetization. The sexual frustration and despair over being incel can’t be destroyed with these methods but it can be kept indefinitely at bay, certainly long… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

Rollo There’s no shortage of rationales being offered by the FI to explain this. Declining grip strength has been noted in Millennial men, that correlates with lower T which has also been documented. Lots of things can affect T, being on a losing sports team will make it drop, rooting for the losing sports team will make it drop. Millennial men are beaten constantly with anti-male messages in the media, in K-12 schooling, in college, on the job; everywhere they go they get the message that men are scum. It is getting worse with “affirmative consent”, not better, because “yes… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

“..There’s no reason a non-legally married pLTR can’t look exactly like Blaximus’ relationship with a unique family culture and daily responsibilities stability etc” there are many reasons. “ You’ll have to filter through all the nonsense bullshit around it where I have to justify just having this fucking discussion to the pearl-clutching OMGs.” “but when I have 5 OMGs hounding me arguing pedantic semantics and arguing with strawmen positions that I don’t actually hold and posting videos of ghettos going “THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS TO ANYONE WHO HAS KIDS IN A NON-LEGAL MONOGAMOUS MARRIAGE” like the fucking sky is falling,… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

Fred Flanging it
This nagging dissatisfaction is what will make the reassertion of masculinity possible. It will come back, first as a fashion statement. You will see the marketing start to change slowly. Ads aimed at women (which most are) will stop showing clueless clods in favor of more Interesting Men who are daring, charming and reckless.

That’s testable. It may not happen until enough pant-suited Boomer bitches retire out of their media niches and even then it only takes one Trigglypuff screeching to scare a whole suite of Upper Middle Class executives and executrixes.

YaReally
6 years ago

@Blaximus “I rest my case.” Those quotes were about you guys defending legal marriage, none of you actually contributed anything toward why a pLTR wouldn’t look exactly like your current relationship. You had literally nothing for why scribbling your name on a piece of paper would make your wife any more likely to stay with you than not, except “love” which is a silly concept that doesn’t hold up to red pill analysis. Don’t blame me because your case is weak when held up to scrutiny. “But I did post up the list that this guy is DETERMINED to just… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago
Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

Forge on Vanir Basically, it’s a mindset wherein non-rational human behaviors all register as some form of power play or coercion. Yeah, that’s the basic feminist ideology. The Personal is Political, every act of every man is seen in the Oppressor / Oppressed model that Karl Marx created. It’s been around in this form since, what the 70’s? You’re swimming in it. My best guess is that people of Vanir’s mindset simply lack the experience of that full spectrum of common human interaction. Whether through different wiring (autistic spectrum, asexual) or through lack of experience (shy nerd, unattractive person whom… Read more »

YaReally
6 years ago

@Blaximus
lol wtf is wrong with you? Why do you keep trying to make the case that family court is bad? We all KNOW it’s bad. I’ve said it’s bad since the beginning. Legally married guys end up in that guy’s position too.

Literally what is your point in posting about how bad family court is? Do you even know what your own argument is anymore?

Softek
Softek
6 years ago

@ Anonymous “Vanir may look strange to you, but he’s really quite typical of a whole subculture in our modern world.” It’s easy to forget that RP men are an extreme minority. It’s easy to write people like Vanir off as nuts, but you’re right. They’re typical of a whole subculture in our modern world. People who understand TRP are in an extreme minority. All these truths might be obvious to us, but the majority of people have taken the Blue Pill and just spout off feminist propaganda without ever questioning any of it. Did you check out Vanir’s page?… Read more »

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

“YaReally derides a ‘just be alpha 24/7’ mentality, but I mean….any approach you take will require consistency.” I think this is an issue. I guess I’ve been doing the 24/7 thing all along and never payed attention to it despite my uber mindfulness in every day life. Earlier today I was watching one of those “don’t laugh or smile” at this Fail video on Youtube. Like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUX2-N8cVMc And I’m thinking, Wait, what? I do lots of physical, emotional and social shit way riskier than that and Nothing Ever Bad Happens (TM), knock on wood, to me. I don’t actually… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“I hear Europe has a system where men and women get together for a period of time and then split amicably. It’d be nice to discuss the pros/cons of what they’re doing . . .” Pro, you don’t raped quite as badly when you split up. Con, that’s because you got raped up front, even before you had children. Cars and gasoline taxed at 100%, shit like that. The child support money has to come from somewhere. ” . . . and see how we can apply red pill and attraction knowledge to it.” All the mens move to Europe.… Read more »

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

Blaximus: “The rest of y’all want to wade into this? I’m soooo finished now.” I’m willing to wade into the crux of the argument. Which is relationship game. This is a blind spot for YaReally. And he is whining about his chosen pursuit. (Elephant in the room metaphorical idiom for an obvious truth that is going unaddressed. The idiomatic expression also applies to an obvious problem or risk no one wants to discuss.) Having children is better with a pair bond between the parents. Pair Bond: a partnership between a mating couple serving primarily in the cooperative rearing of young.… Read more »

YaReally
6 years ago

@kfg “but telling men to walk into the pretty laser beams and everything will be OK because they were prepared for them with pieces of paper for defense.” I’ve never said there was guarantees, I’ve specifically said repeatedly that what I’m saying is NOT guaranteed, just an increase in the odds. You guys are the ones who translate that to “YAREALLY IS SAYING GUYS WILL BE INVINCIBLE IF THEY DO THIS” with your strawman black & white shit. Why are you guys so against letting men know that their odds of divorce and family court battles are higher in 2016?… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

@Ya Really: “Why do you keep trying to make the case that family court is bad?”

Because it’s, ya know, the point. Or at least it was the point when you were discussing mitigating risk.

: “Dan Daly . . . Before KFG mentioned his name.”

I very carefully said, “the man, between a rock and a very hard place indeed, who shouted, “C’mon you sons-of-bitches, do you want to live forever!, ”

I was curious if I would see evidence of someone who simply and automatically does their own homework without whining or being asked.

YaReally
6 years ago

@kfg
“Because it’s, ya know, the point. Or at least it was the point when you were discussing mitigating risk.”

We already KNOW it’s bad, that’s why we’re trying to discuss mitigating it. Is there anyone here who thinks we DON’T think family court is bad? lol wtf am I in bizarro land

Novaseeker
6 years ago

You can pair bond without a legal contract. People did it for thousands of years. If I lit your marriage contracts on fire you wouldn’t all leave your wives and children. Because that doesn’t matter much in family court, which is where you are whether you are married or not. In some states and a few CN provinces it matters not a whit whether you are married or not for anything at all, including property division, if you pass a certain cohabitation time test. Even in other states that do not have these rules, many practices of courts exist regarding… Read more »

YaReally
6 years ago

@Novaseeker “In some states and a few CN provinces” Which is why we should have the discussion and a guide for men to not have kids IN those states. Big Al just assumed common law marriage was EVERYWHERE, which showed he didn’t do even the bare minimum research he should have done before getting legally married. And he’s on a red pill forum. And no one even quizzed him on it. “Again, there isn’t a way around this unless you change the law itself” Or be aware of the laws and don’t settle in those states. “If you want to… Read more »

YaReally
6 years ago

Novaseeker ““Your mitigation, at best, mitigates a tiny portion of the fallout if the shit goes down. Otherwise you’re stuck in the same shit as everyone else is”” And on top of it, what I’m recommending also follows attraction/hypergamy principles (that we all know work and fully accept), as I’ve stated before, because they trigger the same things dread game and MMSL (which we recommend to men to fix their relationships, so clearly it works) trigger, minus the risks of the legal marriage. So it’s lowering the risks while increasing the likelihood of the woman staying attracted long-term. That’s a… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

Ya Really: “Why are you guys so against letting men know that their odds of divorce and family court battles are higher in 2016? Why do you want to keep men in the dark so they can get completely blindsided?” This is not merely a strawman, but a complete inversion of our positions. This whole “why won’t you guys even discuss this” thang started out when I pointed out that Joe the Plumber was fucked and that you were suggesting he walk straight into the maw erroneously thinking that he was prepared for what was coming. You are officially no… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“wtf am I in bizarro land”

No. Look in the mirror.

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/superman/images/b/b1/Bizarro-superboytv.jpg

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ kfg @ SJF Men need to avoid the legal/court system when at all possible. I know a couple of guys with 25 year sentences that would cosign. If they had access to a laptop. Sometimes a goal may be worth a risk of financial disaster or imprisonment, but imo it is completely insane to walk into any situation prepared to get totally screwed. You won’t be blindsided, yet you will still be fucked in ways you never thought possible. I guess it’s easier for guys that have never, ever stood before a judge as he contemplated whether to destroy… Read more »

Novaseeker
6 years ago

So the mentality is “if you’re going to lose $100, you might as well lose your entire life savings”? Why not just lose the $100? No, it means that you’re fooling yourself if you’re believe you’re really reducing any risks. You’re not. Everyone agrees on frame and so on in maintaining a LTR — I don’t think anyone disagrees about that. The disagreement arises over whether there is a way around the problem when it comes to kids and cohabitation — there really isn’t, currently. Yes, some places are worse than others, but almost all places in the West are… Read more »

YaReally
6 years ago

@Blaximus “You won’t be blindsided, yet you will still be fucked in ways you never thought possible.” That’s the risk of having a kid. But if you want a kid then you’re taking that risk whether you’re legally married or not. So what’s your problem with warning men to expect this to probably happen in their 2016 relationships at some point? Why are you against just WARNING men? “Once you escape that situation, you are never in a rush to get back into it.” We are trying to help guys AVOID being in that situation. But the reality is in… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ Novaseeker

The ” discussion ” is all over the map depending on what day it happens to be.

Originally, discussion centered on how to have a child without getting married, thereby mitigating risk that the ” Legal Contract(tm)” involves.

Explaining that this is not really possible set off a temper tantrum.

No amount of explanation will be fully taken into account.

Every try to reasonably argue with someone that refuses to be wrong or mistaken?

Novaseeker
6 years ago

Yes, you can reduce your risk depending on where you live, but it’s marginal. If you’re really worried about assets … really, unless you’re rich, it’s the wrong focus. Most guys who are not rich don’t get fucked on asset/liability division, which is the difference in non-CL marriage states between being married and cohabiting, together with alimony, but alimony is even less of an issue, again, because most guys aren’t having stay at home moms, and can’t even afford that. So, it’s really CS that is the main issue, and that’s everywhere. The Swedish model works the way it does… Read more »

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

@KFG “I very carefully said, “the man, between a rock and a very hard place indeed, who shouted, “C’mon you sons-of-bitches, do you want to live forever!, ” I was curious if I would see evidence of someone who simply and automatically does their own homework without whining or being asked.” Too enigmatic for me. I don’t know what the point was. I know it coincided with some thought I had last night. I fancy myself as being a man who has never actually been between a rock and a very hard place. (This is actually a mind-set narrative I… Read more »

YaReally
6 years ago

It’s hilarious that we all accept the concepts Rollo has written about and that have been thoroughly field-tested: – hypergamy doesn’t care about anything except her getting the highest value guy her hindbrain believes she has access to – not pedestalizing her helps keeps attraction – demonstrating being attractive to other women helps keep attraction – dread helps keep attraction – attraction cannot be negotiated – women love conditionally – legal marriage contracts don’t increase or guarantee prolonged attraction – society is letting women run wild and eat pray love culture is influencing them to not stay in relationships –… Read more »

YaReally
6 years ago

That should read “and being in a pLTR increases it”, before the SUDDENLY LOSES THEIR FUCKING MIND part. Gotta watch my exact wording here and all

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ All Remember: The original QUESTION involved how to have a child while mitigating risk associated with legal ( contracted ) marriage. None of this has anything to do with dread or anything. The original point was RISK MITIGATION. Pointing out that the risks will be mostly the same as far as child support and possible loss of assets ( your home and maybe your dog…lol ) were highlighted in the listing I provided earlier, mainly for the benefit of guys that may not understand that the LAWS override any prognostication. It’s not that different in the end. Alimony=Red Herring.… Read more »

hank holiday
hank holiday
6 years ago

@all

been watching a lot of milo’s faggot tour stuff. lots of good stuff, his one on lesbians is relevant to here lol.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFRepYxcWGfAZe30ljAe2j5p80wRISlIW

@yareally

dude, why u debate these omg’s when you haven’t yet done that FR breakdown you said you’d do a week ago lol

https://therationalmale.com/2016/09/13/stalling-for-time/comment-page-3/#comment-170200

YaReally
6 years ago

@Blaximus “None of this has anything to do with dread or anything. The original point was RISK MITIGATION.” Being in an arrangement that makes it easier to trigger attraction and hypergamy to avoid being in court/legal battles, VS an arrangment that makes it more difficult to trigger them, IS risk mitigation. “Pointing out that the risks will be mostly the same” Mostly is not exactly the same as. And unless you disagree with everything Rollo, CH, PUAs, etc have ever written on attraction, then a pLTR helps increase your odds of keeping her hypergamy triggered and keeping her attracted and… Read more »

stuffinbox
6 years ago

“system out of it, a pLTR where you automatically keep attraction up higher than a marriage because marriage stifles the shit on that list and being single increases it”, SUDDENLY EVERYONE LOSES THEIR FUCKING MINDS.”Single pltr whatever. Because of womens hypergamous nature,married or not the dread is there as people in general,ignorantly expect everyone sees the world the same as they do. I don’t worry about my wife leaving me if I go outside the marriage what usually happens to me is the new girl won’t leave me alone. Hypergamy and feminism are a bitch,because the fems expect that all… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

Repeat – risk mitigation.

Strawman= All that other shit, lol. Rollo’s work has zero to do with what you are proposing INITIALLY ( that has been morphing and twisting and changing constantly ).

Pro tip – you can’t dread the courts.

Risk mitigation. having a child and mitigating risks associated with legal marriage. That’s what you asked.

The goalposts are setting land speed records around here.

hank holiday
hank holiday
6 years ago

@yareally

lol I am the exact opposite. all these debates are the same to me. IDGAF. but whenever there is the odd FR (yay culum) I’m like oh sweet and read that up. That’s why I’ve had like 10 responses to culum’s FRs here lol.

so whenever I hear guy’s complain about “these FRs are too long” or “there’s too many” and shit, I’m like WHAT fr’s lol. they are such a tiny percentage of the posts here

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Blax

“Every try to reasonably argue with someone that refuses to be wrong or mistaken?”

Yes – they are called gammas… if they are male.

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

@SJF: “Too enigmatic for me. I don’t know what the point was.” I didn’t say Dan Daly’s name. You got it from somewhere else. ” . . . you don’t need adversity (or get fucked over) to strive high. I could be wrong.” You need to overcome resistance to build strength. A barbell is just an artificially arranged form of adversity. “Grandmothers . . . What is their influence on men? And heritage?” More generally, post-menopausal women. They were the keepers of women’s heritage, the skills and behaviours of the woman clan. The old family recipes. The tricks of keeping… Read more »

YaReally
6 years ago

@Blaximus
“Rollo’s work has zero to do with what you are proposing INITIALLY ( that has been morphing and twisting and changing constantly ).”

What I’ve been proposing has remained consistent since the start. You’ve just been throwing yourself into so many strawman hissy-fits over it that it seems like it’s been changing. That’s why I can keep typing these up, because I’m just repeating the exact same point over and over and over while you come up with new misinterpretations to get upset over.

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

Heh Ya, Those rules still apply. Rollo, Blax, Sentient and myself have employed them. You, however want them to apply to a new paradigm, with flaky 2016 women. You are targeting a paradigm that doesn’t want to accept how you think things ought to be. You want to target 25 y.o. HB8+ women. They are what they are. You want them to be compliant to your paradigm. To be different than they actually are. Maybe you should re-orient to “As Good As It Gets” instead of as perfect as you can get it with no risk possible. Children are a… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

@Sentient:

Congratulations. You have swayed Ya Really enough that he is now not only espousing much of your point of view, he’s claiming it was his idea all along and you gave him shit over it.

Couple more threads and you’ll have him shouting, “Joe the Plumber is a pussy loser, just like Sentient! It’s just nature. I’ve always said that.”

Novaseeker
6 years ago

so whenever I hear guy’s complain about “these FRs are too long” or “there’s too many” and shit, I’m like WHAT fr’s lol. they are such a tiny percentage of the posts here

Well, how many articles here are FRs?

I think it would be great to have a forum so that the FRs could be there for the guys who want to benefit from them, to be honest. They aren’t responsive to the articles Rollo posts and clutter up the responsive comments as it is.

YaReally
6 years ago

“Made up premises: -a pLTR where you automatically keep attraction up higher than a marriage -stifles the shit on that list -and being single increases it Doesn’t follow logic.” These all follow red pill logic. I’ve explained it a thousand times but here you go for the thousandth time: http://yareallyarchive.com/2015/8/#comment-rationalmale-114069 Legal marriage and monogamy limit a man’s options and increase his outcome dependence and increase the punishment he’ll have for doing the things that keep attraction up. That doesn’t mean he CAN’T keep attraction up, but he’s making it significantly harder for himself for no actual benefit since you can’t… Read more »

YaReally
6 years ago

@kfg “Congratulations. You have swayed Ya Really enough that he is now not only espousing much of your point of view, he’s claiming it was his idea all along and you gave him shit over it.” Like I said: “What I’ve been proposing has remained consistent since the start. You’ve just been throwing yourself into so many strawman hissy-fits over it that it seems like it’s been changing. That’s why I can keep typing these up, because I’m just repeating the exact same point over and over and over while you come up with new misinterpretations to get upset over.”… Read more »

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

“You need to overcome resistance to build strength. A barbell is just an artificially arranged form of adversity.” Your clarity is unassailable. Lol. I face resistance all the time. A lot. Including in the weightlifting room. And in my relationship, parenting, profession, and hobbies. “Antifragile” by Nassim Taleb for the win. I just don’t actually ever get the feeling of getting fucked over. Grandmothers: “The tricks of keeping a marriage together through tough times. More prone to emotional stability and logical thinking within the women’s circle and in interaction with the political sphere of men. And they were the ones… Read more »

stuffinbox
6 years ago

“Legal marriage and monogamy limit a man’s options and increase his outcome dependence and increase the punishment he’ll have for doing the things that keep attraction up.” Legal marriage and monogamy increase a mans options,especialy with women that aren’t looking for commitment and women that want a stable steady guy they know won’t have some wierd attachments.Psychdar .His out come dependence doesn’t matter as he has already locked in a steady stream of showers with no raincoat.His luck has been changed better than any fat girl could ever do. Married guys are rewarded for keeping up attraction,dread fucking is not… Read more »

Bachelorocles
Bachelorocles
6 years ago

@ A Real Woman

“ tell them how equality is such a turnon for all your many woman friends”

If women find equality to be such a turn on, why do women always choose to have sex and relationships with men who are physically superior (taller, bigger, stronger), superior in wealth, and of superior social status?

Novaseeker
6 years ago

If women find equality to be such a turn on, why do women always choose to have sex and relationships with men who are physically superior (taller, bigger, stronger), superior in wealth, and of superior social status?

I believe it was a sarcastic comment, not intended to be taken literally.

stuffinbox
6 years ago

Guess I should change that only list to afcs,white, knights,jelous husbands that get their best lays after their wife talks to me,and young punks that are unable to amog the OMG etc….

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