For Better or Worse

betterorworse

Before I dive in here today it’s going to be important to put things into perspective with respect to an Old Married Guy becoming Red Pill aware and then applying what he’s learned in his marriage. In the last few comment threads the discussion has veered to what exactly the state of “monogamy” (if it can be called that) will look like in the next few decades given Red Pill awareness, Open Hypergamy, the progression of technologies that conflict with (or exacerbate) our evolved capacity to reproduce, etc.

The conversation tends to be a back and forth between what a more feasible and pragmatic approach to long-term relationships might be. The Young Single Guys make a (rather convincing) case for some form of men reserving the option of non-exclusivity; to take on short term lovers should the opportunity present itself – even if for just protecting a man’s state of Frame. Dread, being what it is, would necessarily be a mutually understood cornerstone of this arrangement.

The OMGs who’ve had the benefit of experience with respect to living with women (and in some cases divorces), rearing children (for better or worse) then offer up the realities of what a pLTR might be limited by with respect to actually living in an arrangement like this and the legal ramifications it leaves men open to.

Hashing out what Marriage 3.0 will or should look like is a discussion I’ll reserve for the next essay. For now I think it’s going to be important for that debate to recognize that since Red Pill awareness, in the intersexual respect, is a relatively new social awareness there’s always going to be differing experiences with it.

For the young men who’ve had the benefit of being Red Pill aware and learning Game, courtesy of communication technology and the experiences of countless other older men, it may sound kind of mundane when an Old Married Guy (OMG) finally ‘gets it’ after being Blue Pill for so long. But while you may never consider getting married in the future, you will no doubt get older and hopefully wiser in a way that your elders never had the benefit of. The reason I wrote Preventive Medicine was to do just this; to teach men what to expect from women and their sexual strategies and prioritization at their various phases of maturity. However, I would be remiss not to take into consideration what YSGs relate about the realities of today’s sexual marketplace. I think between us we have a very powerful knowledge-base.

As I said, for YSGs, it may seem mundane for a formerly Blue Pill OMG to kick up his wife’s sexual interest with his new Red Pill awareness, but consider that to him the Red Pill is an exciting answer to a long struggle. Likewise, an older guy reeling from an ugly divorce and rebuilding an even better life and sex life with Red Pill awareness is a fantastic feeling that I think is hard for YSGs to empathize with.

Instant Gratification

In my Stalling for Time essay I quoted reader YaReally and his understandable frustration with dealing with women in what’s become the modern sexual marketplace. I won’t re-quote it here, but the gist of it was how women of this generation are so predisposed to the attentions that social media offers them. The immediacy of social affirmation is just an Instagram post away and Beta orbiters are now a utility women simply take for granted.

It’s important to understand this in the light of how women’s psyches interpret instantaneous affirmation, as well as instantaneous indignation, attention and emotional consolation from both Beta orbiters and ‘you go girl’ girlfriends. I should also point out that there’s an even uglier side to this equation for women and girls who find themselves social outcasts. The cruel venom from haters is equally as instantaneous and likewise women’s evolved psyches struggle to process this.

As is the theme of this series, we have a situation wherein technological advancement outpaces human capacity to adequately process how it is affecting us. In this case we have women’s solipsistic nature that prevents the insight necessary to self-govern themselves with regard to how instant gratification of their base needs for attention is affecting their personalities and the decisions they make because of it. Prior to the communication age women’s need for interpersonal affirmation was generally limited to a small social circle and the opportunities to satisfy it were precious and private. It used to require far more investment on the part of women to connect interpersonally. But in the space of just two generations the social media age has made this affirmation an expect part of a woman’s daily life.

On top of this, we find ourselves in a time when feminine-primacy in our social structure makes criticizing or even making casual, constructive, observations of this self-gratifying vanity on par with misogyny for men. Women cannot hear what men wont tell them, and women have far less incentive to self-examine the consequences of what this affirmation-satisfying attention is working in them.

The Open Hypergamy Future

I get what the Young Single Guys are saying, I really do. I linked this article in a recent comment and after reading through it and author’s blog I can’t help but sympathize with the YSG’s grasp of the modern dating scene and how utterly hopeless it is for men to expect anything less than complete, life altering despair from the prospect of marriage. There is no upside to monogamous commitment, but the real kicker is that this condition is what women plan for and would hope for their own daughters.

Now, I understand Emma Johnson is another click-bait outrage broker, but is the sentiment her reader relates in raising her daughter to expect to be a single mother as an ideal state all that difficult or shocking to believe from women in this era?

My dream for my daughter is that she be in a loving relationship, and have a good ex-husband who really does a great job with the kids, 50 percent of the time.

People forget the joys of divorce — sharing your kids without guilt and having alone/me time.

[…]I also have time to exercise, enjoy vacations that are relaxing and involve lots of book-reading, and I have had time to nurture a relationship with my new husband, with fewer of the stresses of blended families.

The idealized state is one in which I outlined in The Myth of the Good Guy:

The problem with this ‘Good Guy’ myth is not because men can’t or wouldn’t want to try to balance women’s Hypergamy for them, but simply because women neither want nor expect that balance in the same man to begin with.

This is a new step in Open Hypergamy, the acknowledgement and proud embrace of women’s Hypergamous sexual strategy is not enough. The open expectation that one man will father and support her children while another will satisfy her sexually and appreciatively is not enough. The plan is literally to raise a young woman to adulthood with the expectation of her raising another child without a father/husband in her life and the child’s. We’re left to presume that the preferred norm for raising boys will be in teaching them it’s their responsibility to accommodate this norm.

The plan is not simply to end the Sandbergian plan for Hypergamy with the “Equal partner, someone who thinks women should be smart, opinionated and ambitious who values fairness and expects or, even better, wants to do his share in the home.” The plan is to leave that well-providing Beta once he’s been locked into indefinite utility and take up with a sexier husband with fewer parental stresses.

Yet, despite the overtness of women’s Hypergamy, men still have an idealistic hope that the worst predations of women wont happen to them. Read this woman’s post, sift through her other posts; she’s despicable, calculating, duplicitous and would put the knife in your back she told you she would,…but she’s also honest.

Whether by our conditioning or some intrinsic idealism, we want to believe in the earnestness of the Old Set of Books in the face of New Book women openly telling us “You stupid men, this is what we plan to do to you from the outset. Naked, open Hypergamy and all its machinations is what I will teach my daughters and grand daughters to do to your sons and grandsons. And you will take it and accept your Alpha Fucks or Beta Bucks roles in all of it because you’ll never get past your inherent idealism that we might not do all of this.”

We want to believe this woman is an outlier, but by order of degree, we know that whether it’s with softly spoken, loving words or a mommy blog that triumphantly yells these truths, women’s opportunistic concept of love will never align with our idealistic concept of love.

Primary LTRs

The arrangement this woman is hoping will be her daughter’s adult life is not too far different from what YaReally was suggesting about pLTRs; a primary long term relationship with a direct or indirect understanding that a man could take other lovers as fits him. He’s not the first to suggest the pLTR scheme as a workaround for marriage or raising a family sans marriage or binding commitment. And if Emma Johnson (or the reader she’s quoted) is to be believed this would be her own ideal relationship, albeit from the perspective of a woman retaining total Frame control.

Even a PUA like Mystery believed he could maintain a literal harem in some kind of live-in pLTR. And then there are the men who subscribe to the Charles Bukowski school of intersexual relations – in the right socioeconomic conditions this pLTR is realtively possible, but I think this is a poor substitute for what, as men we’d like to be an ideal, reciprocal marriage in which men can expect respect, desire, love, honor and all the other words no woman could ever hope to recite from their marriage vows.

I’ve locked horns with more than a few women who want to take me to task over my debating that human beings are not naturally monogamous. From a social perspective, loose monogamy and women’s inherent need for cuckoldry has always conflicted with our more or less successful human progress based on monogamous marriage. This is changing right along with the latest technologies that afford it to. As such, men are also forced to adapt and improvise with women’s inabilities to process these changes and the rapidity with which the next ones occur.

The old gals always like to tout that western society is the result of our agrarian roots and monogamous way of life. This is ironic since it’s women themselves who’ve fought tooth and nail to destroy exactly this ‘successful’ set up. Ruthless, open Hypergamy is now something to be proud of; something to instruct our daughters to utilize for their own solipsistic, selfish betterment at men’s expense – and to feel no shame for it, but rather expect it as the future norm.

It’s now time for men to either accept and adapt to this, or to form our own response to it in a way that not only benefits our interests, but the interests of women who can no longer process these changes without mens’ direct instruction. In Our Sisters’ Keeper I explored the notion that women of today are merely the women we deserve because men have kept their counsel about the affairs of women. We’ve got the women we deserve because our silence, and the silence of our forbearers, was the voice of complicity. Now we’ve come so far that women will send a man to jail or the unemployment office, or a paternity court rather than hear a man criticize her inability to process social changes that harm not only her but the larger social order.

There must come a point where men must unapologetically correct women for the betterment of society. Today this is a bold statement, one that could likely bring consequences to man’s life, but it’s only a bold thought because we’ve allowed women and their imperatives define the Frame of our social order for so long now. The socio-intersexual conditions we find ourselves in today are the direct result of women’s inability to process rapid social changes. As men we need to collectively recognize this. We need to recognize also that our social state is the result of allowing women to set a social framework that indentures men, that calls single motherhood and Hypergamous choices normative ideals.

We also need to recognize that we will be reviled for presuming some patriarchal control or male privilege, but we must have the confidence to set this aside in the knowledge that we now understand that women cannot cope with post-modern social and technological changes.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

1,155 comments on “For Better or Worse

  1. I don’t need 400 pages to say “the kid is the legal contract.”

    Don’t even have to use my caps lock key either.

  2. @kfg
    And as I’ve explained a thousand times, the legal contract of having a kid is an unavoidable risk because the goal of the discussion is to have a kid, so there are benefits to it (having a kid). But legalizing a marriage and having a kid are two different contracts, one is unavoidable if you want to have a kid and raise it in a stable 2-parent household, and the other is a voluntary contract that can be dismissed.

    And now I’m 4 more posts into explaining the most basic nuance of a post that literally everyone but you probably grasped when they read it because you love to do this semantic shit lol Such a waste of time/effort.

  3. @YaReally Since targeting and only banging girls in their 20’s I can vouch for everything YaReally is saying.

    Girls live on social media—even if they claim they don’t care. It’s all about peer approval and social media provides that.

    Wanna be the rebel? ok….but your loss. Even Krauser’s book DayGame Mastery addresses the with a section on creating a relevant Facebook page, what to include on it, how to select the right kind of photos.

    Will they drop their orbiters? NO WAY…but that’s why you should NOT fall into their trap of being their “ONLY ONE”.

    Girls now don’t ask me who else I’m seeing they either take it for granted I am or they don’t want to know.

    I make it clear it doesn’t work the other way. So if they wanna fuck around…they’re gone. I won’t be an orbiter.

    Social media enables hypergamy. But without a clear understanding of a woman’s nature you’re lost.

    Women are still women, social media may have altered behavioural patterns the same way a 35 hour work week in France has altered the work ethic…but people still work.

    Girls also “get” which types of guys fuck and which are mascots. One of my plates has a unique insight saying of one of her orbiters “He just likes girls, he likes being around them, doesn’t mean we want to fuck him.”

    I was also in what I ‘thought’ was an LTR. Girl just constantly shit-tested, tried to make me feel guilty for enjoying the company of women, then started her own thing, used all my own language “he’s just a friend…” and dumped me because “I need someone to take care of me…”

    Typical BPD shit. Now 3 years later she’s still running around chasing every guy including my friend who I had to set straight about her being off-limits for my sanity and his.

    Social media allows this crazy girl to dump me and then rush to the comfort of these orbiters online. Then bad mouth me and have them de-friend me….giving her the rush.

    They even say “Why haven’t you added me on FB???”

    Women have options. But men with game also have options. Flipping the switch means getting good at game.

    Earlier in this post I posted a video of Mystery. Just seeing him rattle off his routines effortlessly—that is what you need to be able to do to differentiate yourself today.

  4. “We live in a world where it might cost a thousand dollars for a dog to have minor surgery, whereas it’s less than a hundred to put him down.”

    That’s because it takes a higher skill set to conduct minor surgery than to inject poison. There’s a fix for what you describe as a problem, but I doubt you would like the result.

  5. YR is like someone looking over the Killing Fields, shaking his head and saying, “you don’t get it, it just hasn’t been tried right!”

  6. @walawala
    “@YaReally Since targeting and only banging girls in their 20’s I can vouch for everything YaReally is saying.”

    Weird how many times when guys start going for the actual group I’m talking about (the young hot girls in 2016) they go “holy shit YaReally was right” lol

    The guys who disagree are guys who aren’t regularly going for <25yo 8+/10s in 2016 and seeing their world from the side of a guy who's fucking or trying to LTR them.

    They might fuck a few of those girls here and there, but if they are then they aren't doing ANYTHING they preach here (aka keyboard jockey) with those girls…they aren't getting those girls to delete fuck and all social media apps, they aren't getting those girls to stop talking to their orbiters, they aren't getting those girls to stick around in monogamous LTRs with them for years, etc

    "Social media allows this crazy girl to dump me and then rush to the comfort of these orbiters online."

    And they're not necessarily even orbiters. She has access to tons of high-value guys that she didn't have access to before social media:

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BKqtfj4BNDl/

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BKRBScJh_KZ/

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BIRKHxjjw0G/

    @anon
    "YR is like someone looking over the Killing Fields, shaking his head and saying, “you don’t get it, it just hasn’t been tried right!”"

    Sounds like the OMGs talking about marriage to me…of course they're not married or even trying to LTR <25yo 8+/10s in 2016 like the single guys.

  7. @anon:

    Why is it harder to park a car than unpark it?

    Because to park a car you have to maneuver it from anywhere in the universe to a very specific place.

    To unpark a car you have to maneuver it from a very specific place to anywhere else in the universe.

    Same basic principle applies to why it is harder to build than destroy.

    @Ya Really:

    If you go back over the threads, I think you will find that I am the one who explained it to you, but in your unrestrained excitement to be in the pit, you keep hand waving away the principle danger of the pitfall:

    It isn’t the fall into the pit that will harm you, it is the punji sticks at the bottom.

    So I have to keep pointing it out, so that men who are reading this, now and in the future, have a chance of understanding the real risks.

    The risks of marriage are high, but there are ways to mitigate them. The risks of having a child are so high that the risk of marriage is effectively insignificant in the total risk. The risk of being married and having a child equals the risk of having a child, and, given your desired scenario, there is no way to mitigate them. You are all in, not for half your shit, but for all of your shit, including your future shit.

    Unless you can game the entire fucking universe 24/7, to be all about you, Bro. Good luck.

    And if you think I am playing semantic games, just wait until you see what lawyers and judges do. Why is legal language so bizarre? Because the courts have already seen every game trick in the book. Contracts have fallen over the placement of comma.

    And every time this happens the courts harden their own game in response.

  8. Wala

    Mystery has reachrd the supra game state of being dynamic passionate and authentic a looooong time ago.

    When you reach this place of living DPA all the time.. Pussy is just a given by product. Game interesting in observing only… Not in practicing because practicing is no longer required… And girls are just girls and pussy just pussy and THIS reality is just a giant positive feedback loop being amplified.

    Why a true ZFG and abundance mindset is so powerful…

  9. is it me or the tone of Rollo’s post has taken on a confrontational edge which I like and I think is long overdue??…..less theoretical postulations and more call to action please…

  10. @Andy:

    There is a plan. Whether it can come to fruition in the face of a changing landscape remains to be seen, but there is a plan:

    Women will live in single family housing, with an extended family of women and children.

    Men will live in apartment blocks.

    In order that babies get made, women will have “gentleman callers” at their homes, at their discretion.

    The gentleman callers will do the bulk of financial child support, but men in general will be on tap for the total.

  11. “The risks of marriage are high, but there are ways to mitigate them. The risks of having a child are so high that the risk of marriage is effectively insignificant in the total risk.”</I.

    Shaming language Dude!
    Shaming language…it's just never been tried right before…

  12. @Andy:

    Women are the way they are because they have always spent the bulk of their time with other women. Even when they nominally live with a man, the man is absent from the home setting most of the time.

    And the women do not just sit in the homes by themselves. They gather to gather. It was the invention of the spinning wheel that began to bind women to the home. Before that, spinning could be done anywhere, but the wheel is a major bit of furniture that can’t be carried around.

  13. The gentleman callers will do the bulk of financial child support, but men in general will be on tap for the total.

    And Yareally will call the consummation of the FI in this manner “winning” because he is fucking other women, while his baby mama is fucking other men… welcome to the Cuckoldiarchy, payment will be made from your withholding, no bother to write that check yourself…

    https://apps.irs.gov/app/withholdingcalculator/?_ga=1.199640616.726828879.1475852600

  14. “And Yareally will call the consummation of the FI in this manner “winning” . . .”

    He will claim it was his idea all along and proclaim his brilliance at figuring out a plan that allowed him to go where he was steered.

    ” . . . payment will be made from your withholding, no bother to write that check yourself…”

    And if a woman owns the apartment block he lives in, he will need to do the work that the witholding comes from in order to pay his rent to the woman. But that’s OK, because the woman will hire him to do work that women want done, but will not do, like pave roads in July and muck out the sewers.

    Ya load sixteen ton, and whatdaya get?

  15. Question,

    How many readers here actually know ACTUAL live, breathing women with thousands of followers on any media, billionaires and hundreds of orbiters????

    I’ll wait.

    Don’t larpy ( lol ) by pointing to some chick you don’t know,😋 somewhere you don’t live, on some video post somewhere.

    What is YOUR actual experience?????

    I can tell you mine, what is yours????

    Billionaires, thousands of orbiters, vanirs and werewolves.

    What are you guys actually seeing in front of your faces where you are???

  16. @ Blax

    The girl I’ve been seeing is in regular contact with at least 15 guys on Facebook, which I’ve seen by looking at her computer. She’s on the lighter end because she doesn’t have Instagram or Twitter or anything except Facebook.

    She doesn’t even hide the fact that she talks about sex with other guys on Facebook, like maintaining contact with guys who are in relationships and talking about their sex lives, like she didn’t even think anything of directly telling me “He was just asking what I was doing and I just told him I just fucked my boyfriend, lolololol”…..you know, ME being her boyfriend.

    She sees absolutely nothing wrong with this and when I’ve called her out on it and told her I wasn’t okay with it and it bothered me, she says:

    “I only want to be with you. I don’t have any remote interest in any of these guys. I’m just lonely and I need more friends, I don’t know who else to reach out to.”

    The 23 year old I’ve been working on told me one week how she fucked 3 different guys…..in that one week. When I went over to hang out she was on her phone most of the time.

    Back when I had a Facebook, I was friends with a lot of the girls I went to high school with.

    Most of whom are in relationships or married with kids now, but ALL of them post selfies that get dozens of likes, including a lot of guys hitting on them. It isn’t uncommon for a random picture a normal girl I went to school with to get 100 likes on a picture.

    And these are girls that are in relationships and/or married with kids, who are still seeking all this validation. And getting it.

    I wonder how these husbands feel when their wife posts a picture on Facebook or Instagram and they get dozens of comments by familiar and random men going “Sexy!” “So hot!” and shit like that.

    And there are the occasional models, a couple girls I went to school with like that, who literally get thousands of likes and comments. These are also girls that are in “committed” relationships, and yet by virtue of being models, they get literally hundreds to thousands of likes and comments from guys from all over the world, posting explicit things about wanting to fuck them, what a great ass they have, and everything else under the sun.

    This has been boiling under the surface for me. The girl I’ve been seeing reminds me of what Walawala said his experience was.

    In a perfect world, if a girl is telling me she wants ONLY ME, she would delete her social media and actually just be with me, and not keep dozens of options floating around at all times.

    One time I accidentally sent a group message on Facebook, to the girl I’ve been seeing, and two other girls.

    Shit got weird IMMEDIATELY. She demanded I tell her who these two other girls were. And she was really upset.

    And all I sent was a funny picture. No text or anything, just a picture. It was a joke, too, nothing even sexual.

    Meanwhile, she was exchanging a lot of sexual innuendo “funny pictures” with as many guys as she wanted, and her defense was always that “it doesn’t mean anything.”

    But God forbid she found out I was even in contact with other girls. That was cause for alarm and she used that against me as a point of “not trusting” me.

    When I’ve used the same “it doesn’t mean anything” about other girls, or about even jerking off to porn, she’s lost her shit.

    The thing that’s tough for me is wondering how to escape ANY of this. On one hand, this girl has serious issues.

    On the other hand, she’s a normal and even BELOW AVERAGE user of social media. She thinks absolutely nothing about all the guys she keeps in touch with and apparently talks about our sex life with (“jokingly” of course).

    Being in contact with billionaires and thousands upon thousands of men is an exaggeration (not in all cases)….

    …but what about even 10 guys? 15? That is SUPER MODEST compared to what most women are involved with on social media today.

    And here’s the kicker: what do you do about it?

    It is NOT realistic to expect ANY women today to erase all their social media. I would love to see a video of a man trying to do that to a woman, like telling her “I don’t want you interacting with any other guys on this shit. You’re with me, so get off all of that stuff right now”…..and her listening and complying with it.

    It’s simply not going to happen.

    Guys in 2016 HAVE to deal with women using social media.

    And really, does it matter if a particular girl doesn’t have thousands of orbiters?

    What about 5 orbiters, which is MORE than realistic for an average or below average looking girl in 2016?

    Would you be OK being in a “monogamous” relationship where you are expected to keep your hands and eyes away from all other women, while she’s free to talk about sex and anything else she wants with as many guys as she wants on Facebook?

    Or post pictures of herself on Instagram and get tons of likes and comments telling her how sexy and hot she is, while she’s in a “committed” relationship with you?

    I’ll repeat: a girl doesn’t need THOUSANDS of orbiters. The reality is having ANY orbiters is a problem in a “committed” relationship, and social media, by virtue of existence, provides women with orbiters.

    All they have to do is post a picture of themselves online, and unless they are a genuine 1 or 2 uggo, they are going to get a lot of positive feedback and a lot of men hitting on them.

  17. @Blax

    lol most hot girls I know have more than 1K IG followers, this is pretty normal.
    Most of these followers are guys, and they hit them up all the time via DM
    Guys are thirsty and lazy, so this is not surprising at all honestly.

    I also know a few guys who are a bit famous locally, they just DM hot chicks on instagram all day while playing xbox, it has a higher ROI for them than going out clubbing. And it works.

  18. @YaReally, You’re missing my point. I’m not contradicting anything I’ve written in the past, I’m saying that a pLTR (as I understand it from what you’re proposing) is still too risky in our current SMP climate. I’m not disagreeing with anything you’ve put forth in the past threads, I’m saying that even a pLTR leaves a guy too exposed and too liable to women.

    Why not simply maintain a constant bachelorhood and a string of non-exclusive Plate Spinning relationships? What benefit does a pLTR situation offer a guy when Plate Spinning is relatively safer and more tenable?

    I know the original discussion was about ways in which a man might become a father and be an involved one at that, but not to leave himself open to women’s Frame control (as well as financial and legal control) that a legal marriage makes him accountable to. I would argue that a pLTR, while certainly better than a legal obligation of marriage, is still subject to the same complications as any monogamous LTR with regards to kids and emotional investment in a woman.

    Yes, Dread may be more effective in such a state, but Dread in a Plate Spinning situation still trumps Dread in a pLTR.

    So why even suggest a pLTR when Spinning Plates beats that arrangement in the long term? Remember, all the worst self-involvement and SIW entitlements still apply in a pLTR – what benefits do you see a pLTR offering that are any control (if any) for these that just Spinning Plates doesn’t?

  19. Why not simply maintain a constant bachelorhood and a string of non-exclusive Plate Spinning relationships? What benefit does a pLTR situation offer a guy when Plate Spinning is relatively safer and more tenable?

    I know the original discussion was about ways in which a man might become a father and be an involved one at that, but not to leave himself open to women’s Frame control (as well as financial and legal control) that a legal marriage makes him accountable to. I would argue that a pLTR, while certainly better than a legal obligation of marriage, is still subject to the same complications as any monogamous LTR with regards to kids and emotional investment in a woman.

    Yes, Dread may be more effective in such a state, but Dread in a Plate Spinning situation still trumps Dread in a pLTR.

    So why even suggest a pLTR when Spinning Plates beats that arrangement in the long term? Remember, all the worst self-involvement and SIW entitlements still apply in a pLTR – what benefits do you see a pLTR offering that are any control (if any) for these that just Spinning Plates doesn’t?

    I do not get why on earth this point seems impossible to understand.

    Not for the life of me.

  20. “I do not get why on earth this point seems impossible to understand.”

    It doesn’t come with a white picket fence and maybe if you paint the blue pill red you can have it all.

  21. @Blaximus “How many readers here actually know ACTUAL live, breathing women with thousands of followers on any media, billionaires and hundreds of orbiters????”

    Right now I use only Instagram. I follow 138 accounts: 26=WorkoutInfo, 31=celebs, 39=male friends, 42=women I know IRL.
    From these 42:

    17: more than 10k followers
    11: more than 5k followers
    The rest have ~1000-5000 followers.

    Examples of the latest pic:

    1. Girl with 19,2k followers, HB7(28yo), pic is a selfie eating fries, ~2000 likes, 15 comments (cute emojis, why r u so beautiful, we need to go for coffee etc)

    2. Girl with 7,3k followers HB7(24yo), pic is a selfie in front of the mirror wearing new jeans, ~200 likes 8 comment ( cute emojis, “this is so Kylie,” beautiful etc)

    3. Girl with ~1300 followers, HB7(21yo), pic is a selfie in college class(#bored), ~200 likes, 15 comments (cute emojis, “my friend is hotter that yours” #loveyouforever, come for a coffee after class etc).

    I would have to check their followers one by one to see if a celeb is following them, but I really doubt it. Keep in mind I live in a small European city, these are all average chicks, only one is HB8(27yo)/~2500followers.

    PS: there is no way a young person would give up social media. If it wasn’t for my job I wouldn’t use a phone number.

    PS2: After reading a lot of the things you guys have suggested, I realize I need to delete my Instagram account and start using it completely different, but that’s another story lol.

  22. @ Softek

    ” Being in contact with billionaires and thousands upon thousands of men is an exaggeration (not in all cases)….

    …but what about even 10 guys? 15? That is SUPER MODEST compared to what most women are involved with on social media today.”

    And this is my direct point.

    I’m looking for guys here that will back up the claim that EVERY HOT GIRL has thousands of orbiters and billionaires contacting them ENDLESSLY via social media.

    The entire claim is an exaggeration, but it’s being stated as fact. ” Lot’s of ” is not ” every “. Words still matter.

  23. @ NewbieOnPoint

    Thank you sir.

    But my original question is how many girls does one personally know and interact with that has thousands of orbiters and billionaires on social media.

    That’s what I’m calling bullshit on. The idea that EVERY girl, hot girl, has this going on. That’s what’s being put forth as fact.

    I also know a couple of girls that have thousands of likes and followers…no billionaires. But that’s not a majority of Hawt, >25 year old girls irl ALWAYS.

    Get my point?

    Exaggeration.

    To what end exactly? To pedestalize a group of women? To elevate them and their antics above men? I’m still trying to parse that out.

  24. Maybe the problem is that people are linking ” people on the internet/social media ” with people known irl. Like chicks do.

    Feminine primary…..

  25. @blax

    “But my original question is how many girls does one personally know and interact with that has thousands of orbiters and billionaires on social media.”

    those numbers newbie listed were indeed for the girls he knows IRL

  26. @ Softek

    ” It is NOT realistic to expect ANY women today to erase all their social media. I would love to see a video of a man trying to do that to a woman, like telling her “I don’t want you interacting with any other guys on this shit. You’re with me, so get off all of that stuff right now”…..and her listening and complying with it.

    It’s simply not going to happen.

    Guys in 2016 HAVE to deal with women using social media.

    And really, does it matter if a particular girl doesn’t have thousands of orbiters?

    What about 5 orbiters, which is MORE than realistic for an average or below average looking girl in 2016?

    Would you be OK being in a “monogamous” relationship where you are expected to keep your hands and eyes away from all other women, while she’s free to talk about sex and anything else she wants with as many guys as she wants on Facebook? ”

    This is an example of operating in her frame.

    So let me ask you this, Is it okay and acceptable to operate in a female’s frame? After what you’ve read here? Is that ever a truly workable long term mindset?

    Is there another way possibly?

    What I keep hearing is ” Women are in full control SO we must adapt by giving them what they want at all times, under all circumstances, because there’s nothing we can do about it “.

    That’s what I keep hearing.

    And I keep repeating that this strategy is playing along with the FI. Is that not apparent?

    Is this really lost?

    So is the strategy to just go along with a feminine primary society, as men? To what end? Pussy?

    Even if not volunteering to just bow down and go along with the FI was something that even beta-boys could get behind ( eventually ) , is this not a better strategy? In the long haul?

    If not, why are guys even reading Rollo in the first place, if it’s just easier to submit to the FI?

    What’s the actual point?

    Don’t operate in a woman’s frame. Don’t operate in a subservient role. Don’t give women inordinate power over you at any time.

    Sound good and right?

    Idk.

    Maybe I’m wrong.

    I will wait for others to chime in. Consensus perhaps. Or not.

    [youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYvLWHohOlY&w=640&h=360%5D

    Lately I’m hearing a lot of capitulation type talk.

    What gives?

  27. Who let all the women in here?

    Everything I stop by, it’s the same bitches bitching about the same shit with the same arugementsort

    Y’all should get a hobby or something

  28. The whole concept of Civilization is about putting the bitches in check. The rest is just technology.

Speak your mind

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