For Better or Worse

betterorworse

Before I dive in here today it’s going to be important to put things into perspective with respect to an Old Married Guy becoming Red Pill aware and then applying what he’s learned in his marriage. In the last few comment threads the discussion has veered to what exactly the state of “monogamy” (if it can be called that) will look like in the next few decades given Red Pill awareness, Open Hypergamy, the progression of technologies that conflict with (or exacerbate) our evolved capacity to reproduce, etc.

The conversation tends to be a back and forth between what a more feasible and pragmatic approach to long-term relationships might be. The Young Single Guys make a (rather convincing) case for some form of men reserving the option of non-exclusivity; to take on short term lovers should the opportunity present itself – even if for just protecting a man’s state of Frame. Dread, being what it is, would necessarily be a mutually understood cornerstone of this arrangement.

The OMGs who’ve had the benefit of experience with respect to living with women (and in some cases divorces), rearing children (for better or worse) then offer up the realities of what a pLTR might be limited by with respect to actually living in an arrangement like this and the legal ramifications it leaves men open to.

Hashing out what Marriage 3.0 will or should look like is a discussion I’ll reserve for the next essay. For now I think it’s going to be important for that debate to recognize that since Red Pill awareness, in the intersexual respect, is a relatively new social awareness there’s always going to be differing experiences with it.

For the young men who’ve had the benefit of being Red Pill aware and learning Game, courtesy of communication technology and the experiences of countless other older men, it may sound kind of mundane when an Old Married Guy (OMG) finally ‘gets it’ after being Blue Pill for so long. But while you may never consider getting married in the future, you will no doubt get older and hopefully wiser in a way that your elders never had the benefit of. The reason I wrote Preventive Medicine was to do just this; to teach men what to expect from women and their sexual strategies and prioritization at their various phases of maturity. However, I would be remiss not to take into consideration what YSGs relate about the realities of today’s sexual marketplace. I think between us we have a very powerful knowledge-base.

As I said, for YSGs, it may seem mundane for a formerly Blue Pill OMG to kick up his wife’s sexual interest with his new Red Pill awareness, but consider that to him the Red Pill is an exciting answer to a long struggle. Likewise, an older guy reeling from an ugly divorce and rebuilding an even better life and sex life with Red Pill awareness is a fantastic feeling that I think is hard for YSGs to empathize with.

Instant Gratification

In my Stalling for Time essay I quoted reader YaReally and his understandable frustration with dealing with women in what’s become the modern sexual marketplace. I won’t re-quote it here, but the gist of it was how women of this generation are so predisposed to the attentions that social media offers them. The immediacy of social affirmation is just an Instagram post away and Beta orbiters are now a utility women simply take for granted.

It’s important to understand this in the light of how women’s psyches interpret instantaneous affirmation, as well as instantaneous indignation, attention and emotional consolation from both Beta orbiters and ‘you go girl’ girlfriends. I should also point out that there’s an even uglier side to this equation for women and girls who find themselves social outcasts. The cruel venom from haters is equally as instantaneous and likewise women’s evolved psyches struggle to process this.

As is the theme of this series, we have a situation wherein technological advancement outpaces human capacity to adequately process how it is affecting us. In this case we have women’s solipsistic nature that prevents the insight necessary to self-govern themselves with regard to how instant gratification of their base needs for attention is affecting their personalities and the decisions they make because of it. Prior to the communication age women’s need for interpersonal affirmation was generally limited to a small social circle and the opportunities to satisfy it were precious and private. It used to require far more investment on the part of women to connect interpersonally. But in the space of just two generations the social media age has made this affirmation an expect part of a woman’s daily life.

On top of this, we find ourselves in a time when feminine-primacy in our social structure makes criticizing or even making casual, constructive, observations of this self-gratifying vanity on par with misogyny for men. Women cannot hear what men wont tell them, and women have far less incentive to self-examine the consequences of what this affirmation-satisfying attention is working in them.

The Open Hypergamy Future

I get what the Young Single Guys are saying, I really do. I linked this article in a recent comment and after reading through it and author’s blog I can’t help but sympathize with the YSG’s grasp of the modern dating scene and how utterly hopeless it is for men to expect anything less than complete, life altering despair from the prospect of marriage. There is no upside to monogamous commitment, but the real kicker is that this condition is what women plan for and would hope for their own daughters.

Now, I understand Emma Johnson is another click-bait outrage broker, but is the sentiment her reader relates in raising her daughter to expect to be a single mother as an ideal state all that difficult or shocking to believe from women in this era?

My dream for my daughter is that she be in a loving relationship, and have a good ex-husband who really does a great job with the kids, 50 percent of the time.

People forget the joys of divorce — sharing your kids without guilt and having alone/me time.

[…]I also have time to exercise, enjoy vacations that are relaxing and involve lots of book-reading, and I have had time to nurture a relationship with my new husband, with fewer of the stresses of blended families.

The idealized state is one in which I outlined in The Myth of the Good Guy:

The problem with this ‘Good Guy’ myth is not because men can’t or wouldn’t want to try to balance women’s Hypergamy for them, but simply because women neither want nor expect that balance in the same man to begin with.

This is a new step in Open Hypergamy, the acknowledgement and proud embrace of women’s Hypergamous sexual strategy is not enough. The open expectation that one man will father and support her children while another will satisfy her sexually and appreciatively is not enough. The plan is literally to raise a young woman to adulthood with the expectation of her raising another child without a father/husband in her life and the child’s. We’re left to presume that the preferred norm for raising boys will be in teaching them it’s their responsibility to accommodate this norm.

The plan is not simply to end the Sandbergian plan for Hypergamy with the “Equal partner, someone who thinks women should be smart, opinionated and ambitious who values fairness and expects or, even better, wants to do his share in the home.” The plan is to leave that well-providing Beta once he’s been locked into indefinite utility and take up with a sexier husband with fewer parental stresses.

Yet, despite the overtness of women’s Hypergamy, men still have an idealistic hope that the worst predations of women wont happen to them. Read this woman’s post, sift through her other posts; she’s despicable, calculating, duplicitous and would put the knife in your back she told you she would,…but she’s also honest.

Whether by our conditioning or some intrinsic idealism, we want to believe in the earnestness of the Old Set of Books in the face of New Book women openly telling us “You stupid men, this is what we plan to do to you from the outset. Naked, open Hypergamy and all its machinations is what I will teach my daughters and grand daughters to do to your sons and grandsons. And you will take it and accept your Alpha Fucks or Beta Bucks roles in all of it because you’ll never get past your inherent idealism that we might not do all of this.”

We want to believe this woman is an outlier, but by order of degree, we know that whether it’s with softly spoken, loving words or a mommy blog that triumphantly yells these truths, women’s opportunistic concept of love will never align with our idealistic concept of love.

Primary LTRs

The arrangement this woman is hoping will be her daughter’s adult life is not too far different from what YaReally was suggesting about pLTRs; a primary long term relationship with a direct or indirect understanding that a man could take other lovers as fits him. He’s not the first to suggest the pLTR scheme as a workaround for marriage or raising a family sans marriage or binding commitment. And if Emma Johnson (or the reader she’s quoted) is to be believed this would be her own ideal relationship, albeit from the perspective of a woman retaining total Frame control.

Even a PUA like Mystery believed he could maintain a literal harem in some kind of live-in pLTR. And then there are the men who subscribe to the Charles Bukowski school of intersexual relations – in the right socioeconomic conditions this pLTR is realtively possible, but I think this is a poor substitute for what, as men we’d like to be an ideal, reciprocal marriage in which men can expect respect, desire, love, honor and all the other words no woman could ever hope to recite from their marriage vows.

I’ve locked horns with more than a few women who want to take me to task over my debating that human beings are not naturally monogamous. From a social perspective, loose monogamy and women’s inherent need for cuckoldry has always conflicted with our more or less successful human progress based on monogamous marriage. This is changing right along with the latest technologies that afford it to. As such, men are also forced to adapt and improvise with women’s inabilities to process these changes and the rapidity with which the next ones occur.

The old gals always like to tout that western society is the result of our agrarian roots and monogamous way of life. This is ironic since it’s women themselves who’ve fought tooth and nail to destroy exactly this ‘successful’ set up. Ruthless, open Hypergamy is now something to be proud of; something to instruct our daughters to utilize for their own solipsistic, selfish betterment at men’s expense – and to feel no shame for it, but rather expect it as the future norm.

It’s now time for men to either accept and adapt to this, or to form our own response to it in a way that not only benefits our interests, but the interests of women who can no longer process these changes without mens’ direct instruction. In Our Sisters’ Keeper I explored the notion that women of today are merely the women we deserve because men have kept their counsel about the affairs of women. We’ve got the women we deserve because our silence, and the silence of our forbearers, was the voice of complicity. Now we’ve come so far that women will send a man to jail or the unemployment office, or a paternity court rather than hear a man criticize her inability to process social changes that harm not only her but the larger social order.

There must come a point where men must unapologetically correct women for the betterment of society. Today this is a bold statement, one that could likely bring consequences to man’s life, but it’s only a bold thought because we’ve allowed women and their imperatives define the Frame of our social order for so long now. The socio-intersexual conditions we find ourselves in today are the direct result of women’s inability to process rapid social changes. As men we need to collectively recognize this. We need to recognize also that our social state is the result of allowing women to set a social framework that indentures men, that calls single motherhood and Hypergamous choices normative ideals.

We also need to recognize that we will be reviled for presuming some patriarchal control or male privilege, but we must have the confidence to set this aside in the knowledge that we now understand that women cannot cope with post-modern social and technological changes.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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“I should add that after seeing that last debate and all the softball slow pitches Trump missed (and it was obvious they were going to be thrown), I am re-examining my first suspicion when he got into the race.” Here is a video I just ran across, a Trump endorser (but not fanboi supporter) who agrees with JudgyBitch on how the debate went down, only this is made as a prediction, before the event: i.e. Trump will let Hillary set the tone and terms, only going for hard punches where she invites him in. I don’t discount the idea that… Read more »

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Still catching up on the comments, but I want to give a shout out to scrib on his econ 101 lectures.

We may not always agree 100% ( but so what? ), but I dig your perspective and insight.

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Well since it is kinda quiet on Sunday night here, the thread was pretty much killed by Veneer by employing Godwin’s Law and Rollo is allegedly working on an essay about Marriage or LTR 3.0. I’m going to do a little bit of spamming with Deida from his book Intimate Communion. https://www.amazon.com/Intimate-Communion-Awakening-Sexual-Essence/dp/155874374X/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8 What prompts me to do this is my buddy that visited me yesterday at my wildlife habitat farm ran into a little buzz saw after returning home to his woman. This is for him. It is a call to relax, don’t try to game your woman so hard–she… Read more »

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THE MASCULINE IS LOOKING FOR TROUBLE The Masculine sexual essence is looking for trouble. That’s how it finds its purpose. It sees a problem and wants to fix it. In fact, it often sees a problem and wants to fix it even when there isn’t one. Once upon a time, I viewed Ophelia’s emotional states as problems to be solved. To my eyes, she would be moping around the house, so I would try to talk with her about it, asking her a lot of questions, hoping to get to the bottom of it. I can vividly remember one particular… Read more »

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DIS-EASE OF THE MODERN MAN To better understand the Masculine’s native gift in the practice of Intimate Communion, we must first understand the dis-ease that plagues modern men. Many men today have lost touch with their sexual essence. They may appear competent enough, but at their core they are weakened. They have lost touch with their humor and their certainty, in love and life. They have become uncommitted and undirected, or have adopted a false mission in order to make money or distract themselves from their underlying fear. A key aspect of the Masculine sexual essence is its sense of… Read more »

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VARIETIES OF MASCULINE T-SHIRTS At a party, it is not unusual for women to want to dance and for men to want to sit and watch, or talk seriously with one another while the women are going wild on the dance floor. The Feminine is in life and wants to move with the energies of life. The Masculine is traiiseerrdent d to life, and wants to be free of life, outside of it, watching it perhaps, but not caught up in the chaos and flow that seems so native to the Feminine sexual essence. In a first-stage moment, a man… Read more »

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@scrib: I’m not afraid of hard work. I’m not exaggerating when I say I’ve been working since I was eight. I welcome a kind of leveling. I truly believe that we are becoming an inferior species in all kinds of ways due to our ability to, say, circumvent God by using bc and ivf. These “advancements” are actually degrading our genetic quality. We live in a world where it might cost a thousand dollars for a dog to have minor surgery, whereas it’s less than a hundred to put him down. My issue with the current state of things (and… Read more »

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” . . . legal tender has replaced the inherent value of man.”

The immediate problem that Scribbler is addressing is that legal tender has replaced the inherent value of money.

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SJF “THE MASCULINE IS MODALdirection in life-that is, His goal or life-mission. In my case, this became most obvious when I was involved in a major project. If I was procrastinating or unclear of my goals with the project, then my energy was constantly sapped by my lack of clarity, and Ophelia suffered my lack of energy for our relationship. I couldn’t really be with her, fully present. Part of me was involved with the project, consciously or unconsciously, trying to work out my clarity and direction, However, when I was clear about my direction, then I was able to… Read more »

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@Rollo “The problem I have in YaReally’s idea for pLTRs is that even in a relationship where a woman is the “primary” she still has options, she still has orbiters, she still has a sense that she controls you personally and financially because of it.” She will ALWAYS have that, in ANY type of relationship, in 2016. But you yourself promote dread game, MMSL (before he became purple pill, the plan he lays out at least), non-outcome-dependence, MPO, being able to toss her shit on the front lawn, preselection, jealousy, etc…ALL of that stuff is neutered in a legal monongamous… Read more »

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” . . . an arrangement where you are together but not legally . . .”

“For the sake of this discussion, the goal is to raise kids for 18+ years in a stable 2-parent household.”

Would you like me to supersize your order of fried ice?

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This was in 2013, before Tinder went widespread (cause it doesn’t even mention Tinder), so 2016 is 3 MORE years of this EXPONENTIALLY increasing:

https://www.pipubs.com/the-realities-of-the-20-year-old-hot-girl/

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@kfg
“Would you like me to supersize your order of fried ice?”

Sorry, that should have said “but not LEGALLY MARRIED WITH A MARRIAGE CONTRACT THAT SAYS THE WORDS MARRIAGE WHERE IT IS MARRIAGE AND MARRIAGE MARRIAGE, AS OPPOSED TO ANY LEGAL CONTRACT IN THE WORLD OF ANY SORT IN ANY SITUATION AT ALL LIKE THE ONE THAT YOU’LL BE UNDER WITH KIDS AND I JUST ASSUMED IT WOULD BE OBVIOUS FOR SOMEONE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT I’M SAYING”

This is why my posts are 400 pages long, because I have to spell everything out letter by letter every time.

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I don’t need 400 pages to say “the kid is the legal contract.”

Don’t even have to use my caps lock key either.

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@kfg And as I’ve explained a thousand times, the legal contract of having a kid is an unavoidable risk because the goal of the discussion is to have a kid, so there are benefits to it (having a kid). But legalizing a marriage and having a kid are two different contracts, one is unavoidable if you want to have a kid and raise it in a stable 2-parent household, and the other is a voluntary contract that can be dismissed. And now I’m 4 more posts into explaining the most basic nuance of a post that literally everyone but you… Read more »

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@YaReally Since targeting and only banging girls in their 20’s I can vouch for everything YaReally is saying. Girls live on social media—even if they claim they don’t care. It’s all about peer approval and social media provides that. Wanna be the rebel? ok….but your loss. Even Krauser’s book DayGame Mastery addresses the with a section on creating a relevant Facebook page, what to include on it, how to select the right kind of photos. Will they drop their orbiters? NO WAY…but that’s why you should NOT fall into their trap of being their “ONLY ONE”. Girls now don’t ask… Read more »

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“We live in a world where it might cost a thousand dollars for a dog to have minor surgery, whereas it’s less than a hundred to put him down.”

That’s because it takes a higher skill set to conduct minor surgery than to inject poison. There’s a fix for what you describe as a problem, but I doubt you would like the result.

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YR is like someone looking over the Killing Fields, shaking his head and saying, “you don’t get it, it just hasn’t been tried right!”

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Or a tech bubble day trader lecturing Warren Buffet on the “new economy”.

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@walawala “@YaReally Since targeting and only banging girls in their 20’s I can vouch for everything YaReally is saying.” Weird how many times when guys start going for the actual group I’m talking about (the young hot girls in 2016) they go “holy shit YaReally was right” lol The guys who disagree are guys who aren’t regularly going for <25yo 8+/10s in 2016 and seeing their world from the side of a guy who's fucking or trying to LTR them. They might fuck a few of those girls here and there, but if they are then they aren't doing ANYTHING… Read more »

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@walawala
reply in mod

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“The futuristic, at this point in history, is thinking about how best to make babies and support children without marriage and the nuclear family.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-10-05/has-internet-culture-ruined-love-and-sex

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@anon: Why is it harder to park a car than unpark it? Because to park a car you have to maneuver it from anywhere in the universe to a very specific place. To unpark a car you have to maneuver it from a very specific place to anywhere else in the universe. Same basic principle applies to why it is harder to build than destroy. @Ya Really: If you go back over the threads, I think you will find that I am the one who explained it to you, but in your unrestrained excitement to be in the pit, you… Read more »

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Wala

Mystery has reachrd the supra game state of being dynamic passionate and authentic a looooong time ago.

When you reach this place of living DPA all the time.. Pussy is just a given by product. Game interesting in observing only… Not in practicing because practicing is no longer required… And girls are just girls and pussy just pussy and THIS reality is just a giant positive feedback loop being amplified.

Why a true ZFG and abundance mindset is so powerful…

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is it me or the tone of Rollo’s post has taken on a confrontational edge which I like and I think is long overdue??…..less theoretical postulations and more call to action please…

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@Andy:

There is a plan. Whether it can come to fruition in the face of a changing landscape remains to be seen, but there is a plan:

Women will live in single family housing, with an extended family of women and children.

Men will live in apartment blocks.

In order that babies get made, women will have “gentleman callers” at their homes, at their discretion.

The gentleman callers will do the bulk of financial child support, but men in general will be on tap for the total.

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@kfg

I just don’t see a bunch of women living together working out.

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“The risks of marriage are high, but there are ways to mitigate them. The risks of having a child are so high that the risk of marriage is effectively insignificant in the total risk.”</I.

Shaming language Dude!
Shaming language…it's just never been tried right before…

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@Andy:

Women are the way they are because they have always spent the bulk of their time with other women. Even when they nominally live with a man, the man is absent from the home setting most of the time.

And the women do not just sit in the homes by themselves. They gather to gather. It was the invention of the spinning wheel that began to bind women to the home. Before that, spinning could be done anywhere, but the wheel is a major bit of furniture that can’t be carried around.

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The gentleman callers will do the bulk of financial child support, but men in general will be on tap for the total.

And Yareally will call the consummation of the FI in this manner “winning” because he is fucking other women, while his baby mama is fucking other men… welcome to the Cuckoldiarchy, payment will be made from your withholding, no bother to write that check yourself…

https://apps.irs.gov/app/withholdingcalculator/?_ga=1.199640616.726828879.1475852600

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“And Yareally will call the consummation of the FI in this manner “winning” . . .” He will claim it was his idea all along and proclaim his brilliance at figuring out a plan that allowed him to go where he was steered. ” . . . payment will be made from your withholding, no bother to write that check yourself…” And if a woman owns the apartment block he lives in, he will need to do the work that the witholding comes from in order to pay his rent to the woman. But that’s OK, because the woman will… Read more »

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Hey @yareally, your archive is down! sad

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LMMFAO.

Still?

Wake up the shark.

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Question,

How many readers here actually know ACTUAL live, breathing women with thousands of followers on any media, billionaires and hundreds of orbiters????

I’ll wait.

Don’t larpy ( lol ) by pointing to some chick you don’t know,😋 somewhere you don’t live, on some video post somewhere.

What is YOUR actual experience?????

I can tell you mine, what is yours????

Billionaires, thousands of orbiters, vanirs and werewolves.

What are you guys actually seeing in front of your faces where you are???

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….. another day older and deeper in debt.

One of my fave songs.

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@ Blax The girl I’ve been seeing is in regular contact with at least 15 guys on Facebook, which I’ve seen by looking at her computer. She’s on the lighter end because she doesn’t have Instagram or Twitter or anything except Facebook. She doesn’t even hide the fact that she talks about sex with other guys on Facebook, like maintaining contact with guys who are in relationships and talking about their sex lives, like she didn’t even think anything of directly telling me “He was just asking what I was doing and I just told him I just fucked my… Read more »

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@Blax

lol most hot girls I know have more than 1K IG followers, this is pretty normal.
Most of these followers are guys, and they hit them up all the time via DM
Guys are thirsty and lazy, so this is not surprising at all honestly.

I also know a few guys who are a bit famous locally, they just DM hot chicks on instagram all day while playing xbox, it has a higher ROI for them than going out clubbing. And it works.

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” Why not simply maintain a constant bachelorhood and a string of non-exclusive Plate Spinning relationships? What benefit does a pLTR situation offer a guy when Plate Spinning is relatively safer and more tenable? I know the original discussion was about ways in which a man might become a father and be an involved one at that, but not to leave himself open to women’s Frame control (as well as financial and legal control) that a legal marriage makes him accountable to. I would argue that a pLTR, while certainly better than a legal obligation of marriage, is still subject… Read more »

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“I do not get why on earth this point seems impossible to understand.”

It doesn’t come with a white picket fence and maybe if you paint the blue pill red you can have it all.

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@Blaximus “How many readers here actually know ACTUAL live, breathing women with thousands of followers on any media, billionaires and hundreds of orbiters????” Right now I use only Instagram. I follow 138 accounts: 26=WorkoutInfo, 31=celebs, 39=male friends, 42=women I know IRL. From these 42: 17: more than 10k followers 11: more than 5k followers The rest have ~1000-5000 followers. Examples of the latest pic: 1. Girl with 19,2k followers, HB7(28yo), pic is a selfie eating fries, ~2000 likes, 15 comments (cute emojis, why r u so beautiful, we need to go for coffee etc) 2. Girl with 7,3k followers HB7(24yo),… Read more »

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@ Softek

” Being in contact with billionaires and thousands upon thousands of men is an exaggeration (not in all cases)….

…but what about even 10 guys? 15? That is SUPER MODEST compared to what most women are involved with on social media today.”

And this is my direct point.

I’m looking for guys here that will back up the claim that EVERY HOT GIRL has thousands of orbiters and billionaires contacting them ENDLESSLY via social media.

The entire claim is an exaggeration, but it’s being stated as fact. ” Lot’s of ” is not ” every “. Words still matter.

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@ NewbieOnPoint Thank you sir. But my original question is how many girls does one personally know and interact with that has thousands of orbiters and billionaires on social media. That’s what I’m calling bullshit on. The idea that EVERY girl, hot girl, has this going on. That’s what’s being put forth as fact. I also know a couple of girls that have thousands of likes and followers…no billionaires. But that’s not a majority of Hawt, >25 year old girls irl ALWAYS. Get my point? Exaggeration. To what end exactly? To pedestalize a group of women? To elevate them and… Read more »

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Maybe the problem is that people are linking ” people on the internet/social media ” with people known irl. Like chicks do.

Feminine primary…..

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@ Rollo

” @YaReally, You’re missing my point…..”

Boy, does that ever sound familiar.

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/67/6720d6192e0c322c958351845b07619fdfc55368671f9ec9f4e1e8937e97b62c.jpg

( Thundercats Hooo!!!!!! )

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@blax

“But my original question is how many girls does one personally know and interact with that has thousands of orbiters and billionaires on social media.”

those numbers newbie listed were indeed for the girls he knows IRL

Blaximus
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@ NewbieOnPoint / MrT

Apologies. I misread.

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@ Softek ” It is NOT realistic to expect ANY women today to erase all their social media. I would love to see a video of a man trying to do that to a woman, like telling her “I don’t want you interacting with any other guys on this shit. You’re with me, so get off all of that stuff right now”…..and her listening and complying with it. It’s simply not going to happen. Guys in 2016 HAVE to deal with women using social media. And really, does it matter if a particular girl doesn’t have thousands of orbiters? What… Read more »

SFC Ton
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Who let all the women in here?

Everything I stop by, it’s the same bitches bitching about the same shit with the same arugementsort

Y’all should get a hobby or something

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The whole concept of Civilization is about putting the bitches in check. The rest is just technology.

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