Spare the Rod,…

spanking

Two weeks ago in A Woman’s Prerogative I explored the possible social changes that a male-controlled birth control might mean to our feminine-centric social order. I think it’s important to bear in mind that the primary reason something like Vasalgel would be in any way controversial is because we’re considering it from a social state where women are already allowed a unilateral control of birth, and by extension a virtually unilateral control over their Hypergamous choices. More importantly though is the fact the both women’s hormonal birth control and (prospectively) men’s Vasalgel birth control are both concealed forms of contraception. In other words there is always a certain degree of trust or an acknowledgement that a woman will faithfully take her pill, while a man’s word that he is or isn’t on Vasalgel would be the card he plays close to his chest.

I don’t want the discussion to be lost on the mechanics or the semantics of how Vasalgel would or wouldn’t change the intersexual landscape in this post. Rather, I think it’s important to keep in mind just how one-sided the process of Hypergamy is for women today. In all of the post-sexual revolution generations we simply take for granted things like sperm banks, safe and legal abortion, and unilaterally female-controlled birth control that is for all intents a trust-contract for men.

I use the term feminine-primary social order quite a bit in my essays. What I mean in this respect is that we tend to take women’s imperatives as the correct ones in virtually all arenas of westernized societies, and women’s benefits, real or imagined, will always come before any man’s imperatives are considered, if at all. The more we progress socially the more the feminine base of control becomes more evident. Case in point, we don’t really consider the gravity of women’s power in a concealed form of birth control in which women are the only arbiters and only they know the truth of until something like Vasalgel is invented to give men a similar degree of control.

All social mandates revolve around satisfying the insecurities and doubts inspired by women’s Hypergamy, or allaying fears and justifying the fears of having to live with the consequences that result from it.

I coined the term feminine-primary social order because there comes a lot of confusion with other terms like Gynocracy or Matriarchy, also not to be confused with Matrilinear. It’s important to delineate these ideas because Matriarchy implies a direct and overt form of social control while Gynocracy is a self-perpetuating form of indirect or covert social control enforced with the aid of both sexes but neither acknowledging the feminine-primary focus. Men aid in Gynocracy willingly because men (the majority Beta) see a deference to women as an expectation and a benefit to their own sexual strategy.

A feminine-primary social order is a manifestation of a Gynocentric pre-understanding on the part of both sexes, but neither sex considers, overtly, the power imbalance because common understanding is that women are always the victims of male oppression. This is a self-perpetuating status that will never be appeased because in so doing women lose a default form of power.

It’s ironic how, in an egalitarian perspective, women are supposed to be independent, rational free-agents right up until the consequences of their actions begin to impact their lives. Then it’s either men’s fault for their state, men are held accountable for those decisions and behaviors, or they are expected to forgive those consequences and solve the problems women created for themselves.

Self Improvement

One reason I don’t think Vasalgel will be legalized for mass consumption (or will eventually meet stiff legislative resistance) is because it puts a measure of Hypergamous control in the hands of men. We’ve already seen attempts to make ‘sex by deception’ equitable with rape. And we’ve already seen the legislation that makes even approaching a woman on the street equitable with a hate crime. My guess is that not disclosing a guy is on Vasalgel or he’s had a vasectomy could easily be construed as such too.

But what’s really at issue is the presumption of control a woman ought to have over men in this respect. There is no reason a woman would ever consider improving herself to be a more acceptable candidate for an LTR when it is all supply and no demand for her.

I touched on this dynamic in Sexy:

Show Up Naked, Bring Beer

Another great irony of our age is that we still cling to the idea that it’s women who are the best seducers of humanity. In the same misdirection that women would like to believe that they are the more romantic gender, so too would they like to believe they are the most effective seducers. Both of these are far from the truth. It’s Men with the greatest art that have gone down in history as the greatest seducers of the genders. So much more is required of Men to be effective seducers than women.

In this age female seduction amounts to show up naked, bring beer.

Men are stimulated primarily by the physical, but there’s a lot more a woman can do to be seductive. Quite honestly I think seduction is a lost art for women. Very few women know how to be sexy, much less seductive. Even fewer ever feel a need to be seductive. This is due to an environment that, for the past 50 years, has simplified sexual exchange for women to the point that all she need do is stay somewhat fit and wear a thong occasionally. So many men have become so acclimated to just these visual prompts as sexual cues that women don’t really need to learn seduction. There is no greater reward for being sexy or seductive beyond what she’s already capable of prompting in a man, so seduction practices aren’t reinforced for her.

Now add to this the feminine priority westernized culture has placed on women’s sexuality. Any woman feeling a need to be seductive for a man is cast in the role of putting his sexual value above her own. Remember, according to Cosmo and Oprah it is he who needs to be sensitive to her needs. Her sexuality is a GIFT he qualifies for, not something she should ever feel a need to sell to him by means of seduction.

Women don’t need to seduce men anymore. The feminine-priority dynamic has put a default value on women’s sexuality. Those hot enough to simply wear something revealing never need seduction, and those not hot enough can’t sell it anyway. And the girls who’re in between – the one’s who’d benefit most – are discouraged from learning seduction since it’s denigrating to women who should already be on a pedestal to begin with.

Ever since the sexual revolution there’s been less and less motivation for women to develop seduction skills. If anything there’s a resentment for ever having needed them in the past. I’d argue that feminine seduction skills have been replaced with emotional and psychological manipulations (see BPD) in order to make men comply with their imperatives as a result of having abandoned those seduction behaviors.

It’s Men who are learning seduction skills now. How many men do you suppose have read the Art of Seduction by Robert Greene in comparison to women? It’s men who’ve created a global community dedicated to seduction techniques. Perhaps this is the best evidence of the gender reversal the community discusses so often? Women’s sexuality has been elevated to such a degree that it’s men who find it necessary to collectively study seduction.

In the manosphere men are constantly working at self-improvement. For most, self-improvement is their only imperative. Not a day goes by that I don’t read some Red Pill guy talking about how he’s changed his life for the better with his new found Red Pill awareness. Of course, it’ll be argued that this is for our own benefit apart from what women would like as the better of him. Be that what it is, that improvement still raises his SMV and still improves his prospects even its a ‘peripheral’ reward to him.

At present there is no need for women to be anything more than arousing and sexually available. There are no ‘femospheres’ dedicated to women’s self-improvement that parallel that of men’s. Even “Red Pill Women’s” forums would be hard pressed to explain how they planned to improve their selves.

Women no longer have any real incentive to dedicate themselves to self-improvement, to seduction or to embracing femininity for a prospective man. This harkens back to my post Crisis of Motive, why do you do what you do? However, what motivation does even an average woman (HB5-6) have to learn to cook, clean or make a home today? Even when women do, it’s never for men. The criticism is always not wanting to be a man’s mother and this is an interesting feminist oxymoron – literally any act of domesticity is construed not just as servitude on the part of a woman, but the necessity of it on the part of a man, or for men, reinforces the idea that men are all innately children in need of mommy’s services.

Correcting Women

In the last post I mentioned a need for ‘correction’ on the part of women. Naturally, the binary reflex response for some was to presume I meant that some kind of scolding or shaming was due on the part of men. And, of course, the images of men and husbands talking down to women like errant children was the predictable impression.

I think it needs to be said that correcting women needn’t be some in-her-face directly overt affair. It may be as simple as deciding for oneself what a man deems unacceptable behavior from women and voting with their dicks and their wallets. As Red Pill awareness spreads and men become more sensitive to seeing the truths inherent of today’s women there should also come a new pragmatism in men’s dealing with women. Correcting women will always be far more effective when it’s indirect. As I said, women will not learn so long as there is a feminine-primary social infrastructure that absolves them of any accountability. And if a man so much as offers his take on why a woman is in the shape she is or he’s bold enough to tell a woman how to avoid the pitfalls she’s likely to fall into he’s accused of misogyny and being a “monster” for daring to attempt to correct her.

In fact, this correction will likely be something Red Pill men won’t even consider as ‘correction’; it will simply make sense not to bother with women whose character has been molded by feminist influences or whose egos have exceed all sensibility in contrast with her sexual market value. And it will be women who actually inspire this new pragmatism of correcting women.

As open, overt, Hypergamy is more widely embraced by women, as the duplicity of their sexual strategy becomes something women triumphantly use in popular media and culture the more unignorable, that hubris, that raw deal, becomes evident to even the most Blue Pill of men. Mix in a degree of real, unilateral control for men – such as Vasalgel or its like would – and you put women into an uncomfortable and unfamiliar need to actually have to develop some sort of ‘value-added‘ to their characters.

I remember laughing at a Leykis 101 rule where Tom said something like if a woman you’re on a date with insists on looking at her phone or takes a call or is texting you should casually excuse yourself and leave her there to pick up the tab.

I used to think that was harsh, but I understand the sentiment that makes it necessary today. Women can’t learn what men wont teach them. Now, I get that women have Beta chumps on speed-dial ready to console them right after you do something similar, but it’s that drastic experience that’s needed to send a message. If you were Alpha enough to make an impression on her she’ll understand she fucked up. I’ve always advised men that if they know they’re heading for a breakup they need to be the initiators of it. It’s far better to leave her with the impression that the Frame was always in your terms.

I wish I could say that women will eventually learn from their mistakes, but women’s innate nature of solipsism combined with a social order that never holds them accountable and constantly reinforces their ‘correctness‘ in spite of it keeps them perpetually indignant to any insight a man might offer to them. One more reason a woman should only ever be a complement to a man’s life, never the focus of it.

When you combine women’s opportunistic concept of love with a society that never holds them accountable for the ramifications of it, no matter who it impacts, you get generations of women who are simply not worth anything to men beyond sex.

What we’re experiencing is the end result of a blank-slate egalitarian social order; you reduce human interaction to the lowest acceptable transaction. It will be interesting to see how something like Vasalgel will shift this condition by putting the choice of birth in the control of men. I get that Betas will always be available to breed, but women aren’t hardwired to be aroused/attracted to Betas. The onus of shifting their behavior in order to optimize Hypergamy will be on women if they want to consolidate on it with a better-than-deserved man with a higher SMV that her.

Women need the correction of men. How this correction is implemented is really what’s at issue. Being the apex male in a woman’s life as a means to initiating this correction is the first step. Dread can cause a women to self-correct of her own volition, but Dread is only effective if a man has real appreciable value to a woman.

Women will actually need to correct themselves to access the men aware of their Game, who demonstrate higher SMV, and have that guy actually be interested in her for more than a fuck – a fuck he wont need to worry about getting her pregnant with. Women have reduced themselves to sexual commodities and the only means to improving that state is to put a real, actionable, degree of control into the hands of men. At present, men have nothing to barter with beyond their own SMV and their hard won resources.

All that said, men must be prepared to walk at the first signs that he isn’t a woman’s first priority. The correction comes from a woman learning the value of a man the hard way. Demonstrate, do not explicate. You correct a woman by fucking her best friend. You correct a woman by putting all her shit out on the curb when she cheats on you. You correct a woman by being a man so valuable to here that she wants to comply with your rules. You correct a woman by being so valuable to her Dread is an ambient passive dynamic for her. You correct a woman by being aware of Alpha and Beta tells and acting according to the message her medium is telling you.

Women are never expected to shoulder consequences of their actions and as such they have no incentive for introspection or correction. There’s a social infrastructure that’s been established and revised for centuries that expressly excuses women from the consequences of their behaviors and ideologies. Women need correction, but they only learn it from the ramifications of their actions when men enforce it by their non-participation, non-cooperation with women’s ‘correctness’ or by women’s loss.

315 comments

  1. Good points regarding the need to correct a woman. Some men become frustrated when the “good girl” they found pulls a shit test, and they lose faith in the snowflake image they created of her. They never realize that all women, to different degrees, need to be corrected.

  2. “All social mandates revolve around satisfying the insecurities and doubts inspired by women’s Hypergamy, or allaying fears and justifying the fears of having to live with the consequences that result from it.”

    You know the more I observe the more I love women. For who they are not who I want them to be.

  3. Vasalgel is a great thing for men who have absolutely no interest in reproduction. The rest of us must at some point find a woman we think we can trust, or at least hold frame over, and shoot some live sperm into her. Once she has your seed, the same rules apply as before.

  4. The need to correct a woman. Just to share a few insights with the hard cases I have posted about.

    Case 1: Crazy ex who I hard nexted 18 months ago and who has made every possible effort to get my attention. I had forgotten about her until very recently I went to a festival with a friend of mine. She began openly flirting with my friend until I set him straight that this was all part of her plan to get my attention and that she would never be interested in him if she hadn’t seen us together. How to correct this? I set my friend straight. He avoided contact apart from the casual “hi”. But this is more an exercise in self-correction. Don’t get sucked into the drama.

    Case 2: 28 year old who was giving me lots of drama. Rather than soft-nexting her which didn’t seem to work, I just basically tried being remotely friendly….Responding but not actively making plans. Hostility, disappearing completely only created more drama for me. Now it’s a smarter way to manage it.

    Case 3: Girl who flaked on me an hour before and didn’t bother to let me know. Hard next. Ignore completely.

    Correcting a woman is more about self-correction. You can set boundaries, but those boundaries are often tested by insecure women who have a notion or ulterior motive. Sometimes that motive is not clear—like in the case of #1 where friend was unaware of my relationship with the girl and thought she was just pursuing him aggressively.

    The problem in these above cases is that too many guys have either let this stuff slide or been too afraid to set boundaries and enforce them.

  5. @ Rollo

    Good stuff –

    ” In the last post I mentioned a need for ‘correction’ on the part of women. Naturally, the binary reflex response for some was to presume I meant that some kind of scolding or shaming was due on the part of men. And, of course, the images of men and husbands talking down to women like errant children was the predictable impression.

    I think it needs to be said that correcting women needn’t be some in-her-face directly overt affair. It may be as simple as deciding for oneself what a man deems unacceptable behavior from women and voting with their dicks and their wallets. As Red Pill awareness spreads and men become more sensitive to seeing the truths inherent of today’s women there should also come a new pragmatism in men’s dealing with women. Correcting women will always be far more effective when it’s indirect. As I said, women will not learn so long as there is a feminine-primary social infrastructure that absolves them of any accountability. And if a man so much as offers his take on why a woman is in the shape she is or he’s bold enough to tell a woman how to avoid the pitfalls she’s likely to fall into he’s accused of misogyny and being a “monster” for daring to attempt to correct her.”

    I am glad you expounded on this point.

    Whenever I hear ” but what was I supposed to do when she acts like that?..” from a male acquaintance, I’m usually misunderstood is I say anything akin to ” Straighten her out “. There’s no advocating for anything extreme, but correction even comes in the form of pushback. One doesn’t even have to raise one’s voice to do this.

    If a woman happens to be a person that you may want to have any kind of potentially serious relationship with beyond the sexual, you must correct her, then see how she responds. This is what I’m talking about when I say that ” vetting ” a female includes watching how she responds to ” instruction “.

    It is also a function of the feminine primary in this day and age, for simple words to take on ominous meaning when uttered by a man. The fucking language police are out in force.

    But it is absolutely imperative that men start making attempts at correction.

    Not fighting, not arguing, but correction.

  6. When I first stumbled onto red pill content it seemed like I couldn’t go more than two days without reading something about Briffault’s Law. There is absolutely no excuse for that not being a two way street, at least for any given individual with red pill awareness.

  7. I think it needs to be said that correcting women needn’t be some in-her-face directly overt affair.

    When my wife tried to prevent me from doing my duty, I corrected her.

  8. The FUNNY part will be when the purple-pill cashed up CUCKS get their razors installed, only to blast a woman full of dead sperm, and the bitch become distant as she realizes he gave himself more time than her UTERUS thought he deserved. Now THAT will knock Humpty Dumpty off the wall forever, I reckon. That will be a REAL Red Pill epiphany.

    “here is absolutely no excuse for that not being a two way street, at least for any given individual with red pill awareness.”

    Considering the stupidity and worthlessness of the average hoser, I think we should stick to the nice, binary doublespeak the cute little agreeable faggots are used to:

    Women: Briffault’s Law

    Men: Briffault’s Default

  9. Well now that I’m clear that by correction you mean example – demonstration -that is the way through. And my little essay in the last thread says it is you who is to be the one who demonstrates by your newly cultivated strength and poise – I think that’s the same basic idea. Yep it’s the only way. Strut your value,be prepared to walk if your acquaintance ignores or disrespects, there are 3 billion others to hit on at the next bar

    Vasalgel will make it if it’s clinically safe and thy ffind a better way to administer it! A stab in the balls would sure stop ME dead and I ain’t alone on that. Make it a subcutaneous patch and I’ll buy a crate.

    It won’t be outlawed so long as the trials hold up, and there’s a market for it, which there will. Throw me some bogus legal reason why it would be outlawed and I’ll knock it down for you. Despite some folks wet dreams, women can’t outlaw it on their way so and they have no cogent reason to kill a profitable product. They tried with porn and failed,video games and failed,alcohol and failed, record’s not so good there? So the gel will be legal. But will it be USED? Or half assed like with jimmy hats?

    One last thought. Should our little pedo van return to bother you boys with minty SJW goodness? Maybe I’ll match him troll for troll. I’ll talke on the persona of Van 69, the bot troll. I’ll take something you say and twist. It all up to look like one of his shaming snides. Except my shit will be funny because I figured out his rhythm. It’s an automatic formula, a bot . Once you See how it works you can do it too. I quote one of you, say it’s dominating and violating, say hooray women, and finish off with a snark threat of the 2.Amendment. Anyone up for a little game? at some point down the line I’ll give it a shot. Could be fun for awhile.
    .

    But if I get some spare time where I can really rock it here for a while you might find me gettin a bit wearisome, just fair warning. I’ll back off.

  10. As always, Rollo, great points.

    I think one element you didn’t touch on is that women are and will increasingly vote for a welfare + police state as men eschew relationships and women. If a woman can’t acquire an adequate man for a relationship, women as a voting bloc will acquire the resources of all of them though wealth transfer.

    (Probably, you’ve touched on this point before in some earlier blog post and I don’t remember.)

  11. Great post. Very timely. Just had a situation with a plate I wanted long term.

    She had a guy over found the condoms. Asked her about it. Had a chill conversation. She told me it’s just sex and that she cares about me likes me more than anyone etc…. But again medium is the message. I was set to stay the night made some moves on her and got a “no.” Suffice to say I was done when I realized she had a double standard going. She didn’t get it.
    i gave her clear instructions, firm detached, ‘let me know what you want, but I’m not being back up and company after your done banging someone else.” I left and if she doesn’t fix it up in a couple days were done. Maybe I handled it wrong. But I don’t necessarily think it has to be covert correction, but rather from the proper frame of self respect, fairness, and firmness. She after on your terms she doesn’t keep her own.

  12. “All that said, men must be prepared to walk at the first signs that he isn’t a woman’s first priority. The correction comes from a woman learning the value of a man the hard way. Demonstrate, do not explicate…

    Women are never expected to shoulder consequences of their actions and as such they have no incentive for introspection or correction. There’s a social infrastructure that’s been established and revised for centuries that expressly excuses women from the consequences of their behaviors and ideologies. Women need correction, but they only learn it from the ramifications of their actions when men enforce it by their non-participation, non-cooperation with women’s ‘correctness’ or by women’s loss.”

    Yes this is all very good practical advice, and all true.

    But I don’t see how it makes any impact on the woman.

    I’ve done exactly this recently, effectively ending a multi-year LTR. I don’t know what that chick is up to now, but she certainly could have any random cock she wanted from the moment it was over (and before, of course). It’s just that I don’t have any illusions that she ‘learned her lesson’ or whatever, let alone the fact that I shouldn’t care. She’ll do what all chicks do and lie about the cause of the breakup to everyone she knows, then delete all evidence of our history together, then lie to any new guy about her last relationship/breakup and he’ll almost certainly believe her (unless he’s a rare non-Disney type). Then that process will play itself out, rinse and repeat. Eventually she’ll get old, but she’s plenty hot enough to do this for a good ‘nother 15 years. So what will be the negative/corrective consequences, really? I mean, c’mon. The present social order is what it is.

    Maybe you could still say – ‘oh, it’ll always be on her conscience though’. Yeah, I dunno about that. I don’t know that women have consciences like we do.

  13. “…found the condoms. Asked her about it.”

    She wanted you to find them. She was looking for a low-key exit.

  14. “At present there is no need for women to be anything more than arousing and sexually available. There are no ‘femospheres’ dedicated to women’s self-improvement that parallel that of men’s. Even “Red Pill Women’s” forums would be hard pressed to explain how they planned to improve their selves.”

    This is very interesting because I have a completely different “take”. Men take their cues from women and women take their cues from men too.
    Face it, If stilettos repulsed men women wouldn’t wear them. When the girls working the peep show go on strike they wear flip flops and nursing shoes.

    Yes, it’s a complicated equation because women judge EACH OTHER on their sexual market value also. And they used to judge each other a lot more on their marriage market value…and that is where society has really changed. But just about every single cover of every women’s magazine includes details on how to improve one’s SMV (from makeup to diet).

  15. @ joe k
    Great analysis and that’s exactly how I see ” demonstrate don’t explicate” education of women playing out 90% plus of the time.
    You literally will need to be her “lifetime alpha” for her to attach enough gravitas to your departure/withdrawal of attention etc for her to “learn” anything!

    Being your average Alpha will simply not carry enough weight to make her want to learn from the experience.

    And with the sexual marketplace as it is , the sad fact is she doesn’t even need to.

    Time and the wall will be her harshest masters and by then it’s too late and nobody will care what she has “learnt” anyway.

    A sad stat of affairs, but it is what it is!
    I applaud the sentiment Rollo but I don’t think it can be done on any scale that will make a noticeable difference.

    I think the only thing that will work at this point is full scale societal collapse and a reset of the social contract that would accompany that.

    It is what it is just get out there and be the best version of yourself you can be and take no shit. Don’t expect to change anything though.

  16. I also disagree that “self improvement” isn’t a feature for “female red pill” sites. They discuss it a great deal. Granted, the context is usually more along the lines of humble-bragging and out humble-bragging. But that’s more a feature than a bug.

  17. @ joe k
    Another thought I’ve had about needing to be her “lifetime alpha” to make enough of an impact to impart a lesson into her conciousness is that she will probably only learn this lesson for HIM!

    Alpha widow syndrome is real, from the movie highlander “There can be only ONE !”.
    The impact her lifetime alpha makes on a woman is not to be underestimated! It’s the ultimate force in the sexual marketplace and is so potent that it’s a waste of time trying to compete with it once it’s established you are dealing with an alpha widow.

    That’s why almost all women over 30 are unsuitable for LTR’s most have already experienced their “lifetime alpha” and are ruined for anything more than entertainment purposes.

    I

  18. “But just about every single cover of every women’s magazine includes details on how to improve one’s SMV (from makeup to diet).”

    Q.E.D.

  19. @Rollo: the “fucking her best friend” example may be a bit too much, but it is hilarious. With best friends like these who needs enemies.

    Anyway, my interpretation is that the bottom line for any man isn’t just “be valuable”, but also “know your value and demonstrate it”. The “demonstrate” part can be in corrections as advised in this post.

  20. A feminine-primary social order is a manifestation of a Gynocentric pre-understanding on the part of both sexes, but neither sex considers, overtly, the power imbalance because common understanding is that women are always the victims of male oppression. This is a self-perpetuating status that will never be appeased because in so doing women lose a default form of power.

    The cost of victimhood is negligible compared to the cost of self-improvement-to-the-point-of-seductiveness. Who says women are not savvy consumers?

  21. This correction article comes at the right time for me – OSG here in the beginnings of a potential pLTR originating online. She mentioned wanting commitment at the beginning and I was explicitly in a non-commitment mode and told her. So she’s on the lookout for a better guy and staying online. I want her to get offline and commit to me without explicitly ordering her to do so and offering the same. I want her behavior to change first without me promising her anything – sort of “When I see you committing
    to me I’ll think about it”. How can I play this out without being confrontational?

    Currently re-reading “The Medium Is The Message” article and it’s making a lot more sense to me, so that may help

  22. @ DisgruntledEarthling; read this line again and let it sink in, bro:
    “All that said, men must be prepared to walk at the first signs that he isn’t a woman’s first priority.”

  23. Great piece, Rollo. Not to over simplify things, but ZFG (Zero Fucks Given) is the core of the message here. This of course is not to be confused with nihilism, but rather it is what should be considered enlightened self interest. Or what you refer to as making one’s self their mental point of origin. If a man can achieve this state, 70-90% of his behavior will be spontaneous perfection. The remainder can be taken care of with tight game and self improvement. And like a fine wine, this man will grow to become more wise, interesting, and attractive. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again; for all of woman’s societal advantages, I’m so glad I was born a ‘fucking white male’.

  24. Never read this before
    “BRIFFAULT’S LAW:

    The female, not the male, determines all the conditions of the animal family. Where the female can derive no benefit from association with the male, no such association takes place.

    There are a few corollaries I would add:

    Past benefit provided by the male does not provide for continued or future association.

    Any agreement where the male provides a current benefit in return for a promise of future association is null and void as soon as the male has provided the benefit (see corollary 1)

    A promise of future benefit has limited influence on current/future association, with the influence inversely proportionate to the length of time until the benefit will be given and directly proportionate to the degree to which the female trusts the male (which is not bloody likely).”

  25. Wow what the fuck did I type up there? That’s what I get for busting up my ankle, taking a painkiller (no I’m not sharing with the rest of the class), then doing a reply while it’s kicking in. Might as well have said POTRZEBIE

    Anyway, Blax said it better and more sober.

    No I won’t do any fake trolling. Idea seemed good at 1 a.m., though.

  26. @Carl
    “All that said, men must be prepared to walk at the first signs that he isn’t a woman’s first priority.”
    Yup got that. I don’t think that’s the issue (yet). I don’t think a plate usually comes into the relationship in that state. She will hopefully change into that state as she discovers your value (?). I’m trying to get her into that state.

    I may have let her think it was alright to keep looking by using YaReally’s attitude of not being judgemental about her previous/current activities (she was a bit of a wild one after her divorce) but I want to subtly change that without giving an ultimatum and without reciprocating… I’ve been doing thinks sexual with her (anal w no complaints, starting domination games) and I want to ‘own’ her a bit more

  27. Women need the correction of men. How this correction is implemented is really what’s at issue. Being the apex male in a woman’s life as a means to initiating this correction is the first step.

    How the correction is implemented… so many many ways. But always from your frame…

    DisgruntledEarthling – sort of “When I see you committing
    to me I’ll think about it”. How can I play this out without being confrontational?

    You have the right idea, just state it and then watch… keep visible plate spinning on the table to goad her in the right direction… and be less available to her. She will get the message. DO NOT engage in a tit for tat negotiation. “Double standard… yes that’s why it is called a double standard”… You don’t need to get into a whole drag out line in the sand battle, state your desire and then then reward steps towards it and punish steps away from it.

    I got the red pill at 19, after the first girl a fucked ended up cheating on me when we had a long distance relationship. silly now to think back… we dated for a month IRL then about 6 weeks long distance, I would go visit her. She told me at the beginning of what was to be my last visit she started seeing her boss, 25 YO married guy,,, Bam gut punch. after a month or so of feeling down I went on an epic Alpha tear for two years and it was all about establish MY FRAME… my way or the highway over the slightest bit of drama. Just could not care less, on to the next one.

    So i was firmly in this frame when I met who was to become the wife… and actually through a convoluted set of circumstances nexted her 15 minutes into our first date… short story is we got separated and I just went home, didn’t try and find her. Somehow she found my house despite not being there before, about a half an hour later she shows up very sheepish…

    This led to an amazing relationship for a year… while she was off at at school and at home back and forth quite a bit. The next summer when she was home her ex BF, a real beta guy she broke up with 6 months before we met was trying to insert himself back into the situation, under the guise of believing they would be “friends” and that he was friends with her brothers… Anyhow I am having none of this and tell her so… he goes or I go, she thinks for a minute she could try the friends bit with me, I tell her straight up we will not be friends. Broke up with her.

    Now it was hard, the worst thing I’ve ever gone through but not imposing my boundaries and frame would have been harder. So she runs into a mutual friend of ours and this woman tells her “oh i heard you two broke up” and this is a huge dose of reality for her and she comes crawling back to me. Three days after the break up, I am hanging with some guys friends and she and her friend show up. she is wearing a short dress, done up and as I find out shortly after, no underwear…

    from this moment on, the second helping of capital A alpha (the first being our meeting and first 3 months together) I established 100% hand… It was amazing… though I had 85-90% hand before this difference was exponential… Now I had not just a great hot gf, but someone who became devoted to me and knew I was the prize… and that change in her was what led me to end up marrying her within 6 months…

    Because from that place no further correction is required… like living on a cloud…

    and that lasted until we had our first kid. This was a situation I was not prepared for and where too much asshole alpha and bad beta started to erode my position… slowly… but that is another story…

    anyhow 26+ years on from the break up… correction is still required in day to day LTR world… Just recently we came back from a trip, Sunday afternoon. So typical with kids you have to undo the trip stuff and prep the coming week… She is flustered at this. I recognize we are tired and need an hour or two to just chill, so I’m hanging out checking some mail and watching the game….

    she is flustered and starts barking at the kids to do stuff I had already told them to get working on.. then she decides to jump into cleaning out a closet in the middle of all this… WTF? So she asks If i can move a heavy box for her, I do it… anything that she can’t physically do I tend to help out if I have time. But I walk past all the stuff she has emptied all over the hall and go back to the game. She come sin and is like “you just left all that”, And I’m like yup, no need to get involved in this in the middle of the day.

    She starts barking atthe kids to do what I already told them, they come down and I tell her “this is handled” and tell the kids “just go back to what I told you to do”. Bam.

    Now she is pretty pissed and goes back to the closet… she takes a boxs and slams it into the closet. I pop out and call down the hall “hey… if you are trying to break that you need to do it harder!” She yells “don’t tell me what to do”, I toss back “you’re doing it all wrong” and go back to watching the game. after about 30 minutes I tell her I’m going out, walking around all the closet stuff in the hall. Go hit a bar, have a beer, watch a little more, then run an errand.

    Come home walk past all the stuff still out in the hall. tell her I’m going round the corner to a buddies. we hang out and drink some more beer and watch a little more of the games. After and hour or so I come home and walk past all the stuff again. She comes in from an errand and I am reading the paper, blasting my tunes… then have some dinner with the kids. Go back to my office, past all the stuff and finish watching some of the late game…

    she comes in and says “you staying up watching this all night?” I say maybe… she leaves…

    after an hour or so I head upstairs, now the hall is clear, all the stuff put away. wash up get into bed. Start to read my Ipad, she says “goodnight”… I say “goodnight” and don’t move… after a minute she says “well I will give you a kiss goodnight then” she slides over and gives me a kiss and BAM it is on…

    That is how you deliver correction in a LTR from your frame… no shouting, no negotiating, no logical discussions… just go about you being you, do NOT be butthurt about anything, keep a sense of humor and be willing to let bygones be gone… But STAY in YOUR frame at all times.

    Men lead and women follow. You are always training her.

    Oh yeah – the cheater from when I was 19… about 6 months later I moved back to her city and she heard I was back and she shows up one day at my door… looking to get together…. I am like “are you fucking kidding me?” and show her out. She could not understand it… LOL

  28. One way to correct the FI overstepping is to join with Father’s Rights Movements or similar groups against parental alienation.

    I’m sure even a misandrist like Vanir would agree with equal parenting rights.

  29. @joe K

    My take on this is that you simply shouldn’t care if she changes or not. The focus here should be on your mental sanity. Only that.
    Girl flakes on a date? I don’t even respond to that.
    She comes up with bs excuses to justify anything wrong she did? C ya.

    The medium is the message.

    You remove your attention and move on. Next play.
    Her brief existence in your life doesn’t merit all that introspection about her behavior and possible future relationships.

    Amused mastery + no fucks given are your best friends, my man.

  30. Rollo
    I think it’s important to keep in mind just how one-sided the process of Hypergamy is for women today. In all of the post-sexual revolution generations we simply take for granted things like sperm banks, safe and legal abortion, and unilaterally female-controlled birth control that is for all intents a trust-contract for men.

    About 15 years back I wound up talking to an older woman, a distant relation, who still disapproved of single women having access to sperm banks. She insisted that when sperm banks first were set up in the 60’s they were only for married couples where the man had a medical diagnosis of infertility, and that the sperm banks went to some effort to find a man who physically resembled the husband. Being female she found this to be a good thing because married women could bear their own children.

    Abstractly this arrangement was legalized cuckolding, to some degree.

    When did single women and lesbians get access to sperm banks? Was it in the 80’s or 90’s? That should have been a big clue to all men that provider game was dying, because women pretty much want the resources around to raise a child when they are busy obtaining sperm.

    This just shows how insanely skewed our current social system is towards women. By the way.

    Now on to vasalgel.
    Before the Pill the standard methods for contraception were condoms and the diaphragm. I doubt that outside of some absurdly Victorian relationship a woman could use a diaphragm without her husband eventually finding out.

    So in the past, prior to the 1950’s, it was the man’s choice in a marriage how many children they had; sure, it may have been a “choice” in the sense that he got to pretend he’d decided something, but it was still normalized that if they had 3 kids, well, that’s the number he wanted.

    Covert contraception for women changed all that. Vasalgel is a negative vote, a man who has that done to his spermatic cords is saying “Nope! Not right now!” in a covert way. She can poke pinholes in condoms all day, won’t make a difference.

    IF it is allowed onto the general market, it may have the effect of giving men bargaining power, because even sluts want at least one baybee, it’s in the genes, and the whole business of lies like “Don’t worry, I’m on the Pill” or “oops, forgot to take my Pill, tee hee” leading to “I’m pregnant and you’re the father” over time becomes much less useful.

    IF men can actually set terms along the lines of “I won’t knock up a woman who isn’t fit to be a mother…” that could potentially redraw some lines. Imagine if women actually had to meet some objective standards before they could get their alpha sperm?

  31. @Walawala – Bad intervention, next time you let the guy know this but tell him to fuck her and then laugh at her after…But of course he takes a quick vid while making out to get her consent on record. This is how one “corrects” a woman.

  32. I think the idea of “correcting” women can be misconstrued and hence is not a concept I can get behind using that word. I think, Rollo, you should reconsider using it too.

    Being the psychological wreck I am, I have tried just about every mode of therapy on offer for guys like me with abuse and other horrific shit in my childhood. I did a lot of work around co-dependency and relationships as all this stuff gets wired up wrong as a kid when you live in a survival situation growing up.

    The key is setting boundaries and sticking with them, which essentially are heuristics (rules of thumb) that people accept about you when they deal with you. It’s actually best if they aren’t spoken about much. A boundary can include a consequence for violating it as well.

    The problem is that women have been socialized to believe that men are disposable and easily replaceable, and to some degree they are correct. So to me, for the man implementing boundaries, he has to be very careful to “sink the hook” first before cracking the whip.

    It’s the same thing in sales, you can’t really negotiate hard and push until the client really wants what you have. I used consequences the wrong way in my marriage and the then-wife just started fucking another guy. Had i been RP and game-sentient, I would have proceeded entirely differently.

    So, use all of this advisedly and carefully. I’ve also learned from the OMGs here that sometimes what a woman is really doing by being a bitch is asking for comfort and that if you give consequences when she’s seeking comfort, all hell will break loose.

  33. @ Sentient

    Man oh man, am I ever resonating with the ” barking at the kids” scenario.

    Also familiar with the inexplicable random cleaning thing. Lmao.

    Just a couple of days ago, I too was watching something on television ( I watch about 3 hours a week. Mostly news, weather and a few ESPN shows and car stuff on Velocity ).

    Something set wifey off. I think it had something to do with clutter in the dining room. The barking started small at first, then went semi nuclear.

    It was distracting.

    Without yelling, but loud enough to be clearly heard, I said ” that’ll be enough of that.”.

    There was immediate silence at first, then reasonable conversation.

    They literally had to be trained to respond to me in this manner. Ignoring me always came with consequences. Always.

    IMO, that is the form of appreciation they can demonstrate towards me.

    If not, I can always go ghost.

    I spent the first year of marriage molding wifey and setting boundaries. It wasn’t all that difficult because I knew she’d take instruction. Her family always asks how I ” tamed ” her. Usually I just laugh that question off, but occasionally I’ll answer 1) I love her, and 2) I’m not afraid of her.

    Now, my definition of ” love ” is much different then the inquirers. I married an extremely strong willed woman. Hot blooded Latina…lol. I didn’t break her, I harnessed and redirected all of that fire. I demonstrated the value of my direction and instruction. She voluntarily fell in line.

    Vigilance is always required, but it can’t be or feel like work, or be some kind of forced struggle. There is no reward to be had in that kind of struggle.

    One day last week, I was on my way to work and I’d planned to stop at my fave Chinese takeout to pick something up for dinner. When I arrived, the restaurant has a sign displayed saying ” closed for renovations until Oct”. Shit. I didn’t have time to go anywhere else, so I went to work empty-handed. Junk food for dinner evidently.

    I was relating this to wifey later that evening. She asked ” so what are you going to eat???”. I told her not to sweat it, I had chips and stuff, and plenty of water and drinks.

    Her response was that she would find a takeout place and bring me something.

    Now fellas, I work 40 miles from where I live. I make an 80 mile round-trip commute. That commute takes place on one of the most dangerous interstates in the state. Wifey wanted to make that drive during rush hour traffic, to bring me the food I wanted.

    I thanked her and declined the offer.

    What I didn’t explicate was that I didn’t want her driving 80 miles to bring me food, and that the offer was actually kind of touching. That info is for me to know.

    It’s a barometer.

  34. Blax

    “Wifey wanted to make that drive during rush hour traffic, to bring me the food I wanted.”

    Demonstration of what hand looks like.

    The kicker is, most guys will just see the strong part of this (i.e.e the training and correction) and not work out that your wife actually needs to feel that she wants to do this stuff…. That she is not being forced to, but part of her will be unfulfilled if she doesn’t have the desire to…

    It’s the barometer for her as well…

    One of the worst things I did in my marriage was not picking up on this and doing way too much stuff myself instead of allowing her to do things like your wife wanted… and that dulled her feelings…

    so I remember now to give her things to pick up from the store when she asks if I want anything, and what shirt I want ironed and stuff like that…

    and then well after the fact, not usually during it, give her a little reward of “thanks for that” or “nice job on that” or “those chips were great etc… Be sure and leave some space between when you get something and when you reward that behavior. and be sure of course to not always demonstrate your gratitude… if part of her is not working for you, she wont feel fulfilled…

    Because who wants a guy she no longer has to work for?

  35. — Begin Gynocentric/Spineless White Knight Response

    What!? You don’t like ‘affirmative consent’!? You don’t like a law that states that if you can’t prove ‘enthusiastic and ongoing consent’ at ‘every stage of the sexual encounter’, you’re guilty of rape/assault!? That’s just your patriarchal male privilege showing! Women haters! All women should be believed! Women’s accusation means your social, legal, physical and financial doom! You had better darn be scared, misogynist! Cry man-baby, cry! We bath in male tears!

    Stop your man-splaining and stop trying to intimidate me with your man-spreading! Muh feelings! So what if you need a video tape, a court stenographer and a lawyer present whenever you have sex! Men should fear sex with powerful, independent women! So what if a woman can come back months, years or decades later and have you imprisoned for rape and cleaned out via civil suits with no evidence whatsoever! Girl power! All men should be put in prison! Men to the back of the bus!

    Don’t give me that ‘male-only conscription’ BS! I have breasts and a vagina – oppressor! What cha gonna do, huh man-baby?! Cry?! Mooohahahahahha! If I happen to want an abortion to escape parenthood – I’ll terminate the infestation of your biologically induced oppression! Men play – men pay! Cry man-baby, cry!

    The world needs more anti-male-positive-discrimination laws so that men can be put in their place – beneath women! Down with the patriarchy! Fish don’t need no dang bicycles, you cry-babies! Man up! Get married so you can be properly divorce raped and be forced into homelessness – like a real man! (drop mic)

    — End Gynocentric/Spineless White Knight Response

    MGTOW for the win.

  36. lol @ picture and title. The Vanirs are going to love this.

    Great article, on point as always.

    ” Being the apex male in a woman’s life as a means to initiating this correction is the first step”

    “I think it needs to be said that correcting women needn’t be some in-her-face directly overt affair.”

    “All that said, men must be prepared to walk at the first signs that he isn’t a woman’s first priority.”

    Agree 100% but this is where our past discussions are overlapping. Because we have figured it out so far:

    Work on yourself and become the best version of yourself, financially, health-wise, gamewise. Work out distinct boundaries for yourself in the process. You don’t FORCE or manipulate them on anyone (hi, Vanir), but whoever crosses them gets a fair warning and if he repeats crossing them, gets removed from your life/you remove yourself from theirs.

    Trigger hypergamy = Become the apex male in your female partners life.

    She crosses your boundaries = You Soft Next/Freeze/Walk = Your absence creates dread = Your female partner is self motivated to correct her behavior because she WANTS to be part of your life and your being part of her life.

    Ergo: The two important factors are: understanding/triggering hypergamy + the ability to remove yourself if your boundaries are crossed (which in itself triggers hypergamy).

    Legal Marriage = Removes your ability to walk. Ergo: Remove legal marriage.

    Children = Remove your ability to walk. Ergo?

    And here we are stuck. Because from a Red Pill perspective, what do we recommend a guy who wants children in 2016+?

    ———–

    But anyway, good to specify the “correction”-issue, Rollo. I always felt this was the very center of any true Red-Pill-outlook on life. You become the best version of yourself and constantly add value to the people around you. So that if anybody crosses your boundaries and you remove yourself from them as a consequence, they feel the loss and are self-motivated to “correct” their behavior.

    No evil manipulation, drama, “isolation” of other human beings, supression, violence or any of this shit is needed for this. In fact, that’s the direct opposite.

  37. Example of a well executed form of the “takeaway”… You can be physically present yet still remove yourself completely… c’mon now…

    Just a look at another girl – with ZFG – then a look back discerningly at your girl – with no comment – then look ahead… Hamster food for a week…

  38. VASAGEL IS NOT CONCEALED UNFORTUNATELY…. NO SEMEN COMES OUT WHEN YOU EJACULATE SO CONNIVING WHORES WILL KNOW IF YOU ARE ON IT. I had originally thought it stopped the sperm from entering the seminal fluid but it actually blocks the entire passage and the fluid is simply reabsorbed. This is why it is called the “clean sheets” option.

  39. deti, do you like to tell people weeks before Christmas what’s in their presents, too? Walk around Easter egg hunts pointing them out to kids?

    Spoiling mah fun, dammit!

    @david
    Source?
    I know where the spermatic cord is, and what the prostate does, frankly I’m not sure you’re clear on the anatomy.

  40. “Legal Marriage = Removes your ability to walk. Ergo: Remove legal marriage.
    Children = Remove your ability to walk. Ergo?”

    In a live-in LTR type thing you don’t have to “walk.” Just letting her know she crossed a line and withdrawing attention seems to work fairly well. Like Sentient’s story.

    A pLTR would add a bit more ‘ooomph’ to any corrections. That’s only one aspect of all this shit though.

  41. “It may be as simple as deciding for oneself what a man deems unacceptable behavior from women and voting with their dicks and their wallets.”

    And voting with their utility and service too?

    One setting of normal, every day life that I find very interesting to observe human behavior is the on-boarding of airplanes.
    It’s amazing. There’s always something interesting going on, if you’re observant.

    The solipsistic horseblinders that so many people (men and women) tend to put on while getting themselves situated, while a long line of irritated, impatient strangers behind them stand and wait, is just fascinating. Brian Regan does an excellent comedy bit on this by the way.
    The space is so cramped it doesn’t take much to sense the heightened temperature, grief and irritation of others nearby.

    Of course, most of the time people are friendly,going out of there way in fact not to ruffle feathers, upset anyone nearby, and perhaps overly apologetic for the most minor of social infractions.

    Yet inevitably there is almost always a handful of women, some younger, some middle aged, who bring on board hopelessly overweight carry-on bags that they cannot possibly lift into the upper compartments on their own.

    There was a time when I would personally go out of my way to be of service to such women, volunteering my moderate brawn to lift on their behalf.

    I did so mostly out of an urge to be gentlemanly in a public setting. A nice thing to do. But also out of certain protective instincts – self-preservation and the protection of others as countless times these ladies end up failing to lift that bag only to have it fall down full weight on the head, face or neck of a man, an elderly woman or even someone’s child below.

    The lack of responsibility, anticipation is there for all to see.

    And yet countless times one can still observe men (strangers) eagerly jumping up volunteering to be of service to this distressed damsels, stowing that heavy bag promptly for her above……..but then receiving no acknowledgement, courtesy, or thanks from the girl he helped while she continues onward to take her seat. This is fascinating to behold.

    For every one overt “thank you, that’s very nice of you”, it just seems more and more like there are four or five responses of silence, assuming indifference, ingratitude and just a lack of manners on part of the woman being helped.

    Most of the time the guys let that rudeness roll off. Par for the course as it were. I mean, this is the human on-boarding of an airplane after all. In a few hours we’ll all never see each other again.

    But then the question immediately comes to mind: What would happen if more men simply stopped helping in such settings?

    That’s not a very nice world to imagine for anyone. Yet it seems like that might be where we are headed.

  42. Sorry about that Anon Reader. Thought you might not have been aware. Anyway, it’s all there — her hesitance, her unconscious sneering/disdain for Josh, her Day which is All About Her. It is clear she didn’t love or want him. And 2 and a half years later, it’s all over.

    Constrained Locus: Women always assume that whatever they cannot do or failed to plan for, a man will do it or take care of it.

  43. @David

    No, the gel works to block passage in the nuts. NOT the uretha. So the mix still comes out, just no sperm. She’d have to be a fucking secret agent to know for sure.

    When it goes public, the game will still be on, only their best reads will still have margin for error built right in.

  44. tell Francis Collins who is the director of the National Institute of Health (largest medical research grant supplier in the world) that it is time for a male birth control option after 60 years. BE POLITE AND NOT OVERLY RED PILL OTHERWISE YOU ARE HURTING NOT HELPING. If your a butt hurt beta in the anger phase DO NOT SEND AN EMAIL.

    collinsf@mail.nih.gov

  45. I stand corrected…. The Parsemus Foundation changed course and are now blocking just the sperm rather then the seminal fluid. They should probably update their website as that is a pretty big difference. I am glad I was wrong. I originally donated to this 3+ years ago during my first real paycheck after school and it was blocking all seminal fluid back then. I could not be happier to be wrong about an issue.

  46. Vasagel stops sperm from getting into the seminal fluid, which comes from the prostate. Now if you’ve had a prostatectomy (I,e, the prostate is ripped out a la Sin City), or just recovering from a prostate biopsy for a time, there is no seminal fluid. The prostate is above the testicles and inside your lower abdomen below the bladder. Though speaking for my own self, there has never been an occasion in my history where I’ve been asked about seminal fluid or its absence as a topic of discussion. YMMV I guess.

  47. david
    no I have no idea about anatomy… I’m just a Physician Assistant that has dissected a dozen+ human cadavers during UG and PA school.

    Or you’re just a misinformed individual who doesn’t know what he’s writing about. Maybe you’re a PA, and maybe not. For example, your reference talks about a pill, but Vasalgel is a form of reversible vasectomy.

    Wikipedia is not always a good source but sometimes is still ok.
    Seems accurate on this anyway.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reversible_inhibition_of_sperm_under_guidance

    Plus if you looked around the Parsemus foundation website or used a search tool you would find the word “VASALGEL” which is the topic Rollo is pointing to, it is a different web page than the one you cited.

    https://www.parsemusfoundation.org/projects/vasalgel/

    Maybe you should check your sources more carefully before posting, and dial the snark back also.

  48. @Anonymous Reader

    He already knows. There’s no need to daddy-smack him. I take it as a wake-up call to always double-check shit.

  49. The ultimate double standard. “we can control our birth rights, you cannot.” Vasagel being illegal is a blatant offense towards the well being of men.

  50. I don’t know about you guys, but I simply cannot wait upon release of the Vasalgel procedure. Imagine the kind of top rank, 5-star creative marketing teams that Parsemus will assemble and the creative campaigns they could be devised and executed to generate demand and sell the crap out of this solution to men (and to women?!).

    Wonderful ideas immediately spring to life from Parsemus’s infographic alone:

    The commercials could be pure comedy gold if only they would allow even the most modest drop of red pill flavoring. But…we probably shouldn’t hold our breath though. Birth control has its social conventions, and it’s serious business after all. Right?

    @Anonymous Reader
    “IF men can actually set terms along the lines of “I won’t knock up a woman who isn’t fit to be a mother…” that could potentially redraw some lines. Imagine if women actually had to meet some objective standards before they could get their alpha sperm?”

    You mean valuable skills like manners, cooking, cleaning, maintaining a home, raising children and being pleasant company for the husband?
    How perverse!

  51. “You mean valuable skills like manners, cooking, cleaning, maintaining a home, raising children and being pleasant company for the husband?”

    I have it on good authority it means makeup.

  52. No slave responds to anything more positively than reward and punishment. For the master to be effective, the rewards must be those which the slave desires and the punishments must be the denial of those rewards. Punishment can never be in the form of an attack against the slave. Such actions, and even the inclination of any are based in fear, reveal insecurity, lack of control, lack of mastery. Attacking the slave is pointless, counterproductive in fact, because damaging or destroying the slave makes her less usable, less compliant or useless. No master does battle with his subjects, he utilizes them.

  53. A cautionary note about rewards… it is better to under-reward slightly than over-reward in the slightest.

  54. I have it on good authority it means makeup.
    Fallacy of omission. The sexual marketplace is where adornment matters more. Not so the marriage marketplace.

  55. Rollo: ““At present there is no need for women to be anything more than arousing and sexually available.There are no ‘femospheres’ dedicated to women’s self-improvement that parallel that of men’s.

    anon: ” . . . just about every single cover of every women’s magazine includes details on how to improve one’s SMV (from makeup to diet).”

    Fallacy of Omission Indeed.

    I’m sorry, but Rollo threw a wild jab and you did him the favor of leaning in to it. If you do not see it, the omission is in your ability to do so.

  56. Just had a look at Self, the premier women’s health, fitness and improvement magazine. Let’s see . . .

    The New Activists: Redefining Normal, One Selfie At A Time
    Ashley Graham’s* Guide To Taking The Perfect Selfie

    Yeah, we’re off to a good start.

    Looking at diet, they have an article on vegan recipies. Jeeezus.

    This one is actually one of the best I’ve seen in women’s magazine in a while, and it is horrifying in its content, its omissions and its implication:

    http://www.self.com/story/food-myths-registered-dietitian

    “Quinoa (which is actually a seed, not a grain). . .” Jeeezus^2

    Reminds me of the go round some people had with a 20 something, female dietician a few years ago. She made some snide remark I can’t remember about collagen. When she took heat for it she said she had no idea that people ate collagen.

    In its processed, instant form it is on the market shelves, it is advertised on TV, it is featured in women’s magazines diet sections and the dietician had not only surely eaten it herself, she has almost certainly prepared it. In its unprocessed, slow cook form, my butcher keeps it in the front display.

    Dieticians not only don’t know what people eat, they don’t even know what food is.

  57. Got other obligations. Just leave this here, for any … fans of the electric guitar.

    It’s on topic.

  58. Getting caught up on some stuff

    @yareally

    Please don’t do a breakdown for this FR:

    https://therationalmale.com/2016/09/13/stalling-for-time/comment-page-3/#comment-170200

    it would greatly offend me and I would hate you forever.

    @rollo

    Even sexually fluid, previously heterosexual women who conveniently discover they’re lesbians later in life when no man will have them STILL prefer dominant masculine butch lesbians to assume the the role of the men they would’ve preferred to have in their lives:

    Dunno if it was linked here or where I saw it, but I watched an interview with Norah Vincent who wrote that Self Made Man book where she lived as a man for 18 months (although, lol, she didn’t ACTUALLY do it 24/7 for 18 months, she just did it over a PERIOD of 18 months. She just went out maybe 100 times in drag. I thought that was funny though, how much she exaggerated how long she “lived” as a man — more like she went out for a few hours here and there.)

    Anyway, she was talking about how hard it was to pick up girls as a guy. What I thought was so funny though was that on speed dates she went on, she didn’t get any dates (obviously, she acted like a gay man). HOWEVER, when she revealed herself to actually be a woman, she found her dates then WANTED to have sex with her, lol, because Norah was MASCULINE for a woman. So its that same deal you are talking about rollo, how they always look for the masculine compliment to the feminine. It just amused me that change though, that the girls weren’t interested in a feminine man, but were interested in a masculine woman.

    @pua

    Still working on jobs. Hate doing it. Gotta make more calls here and there.

    That video someone linked, on the fat blonde chody guy on RSD lol. Adam, or something. Anyway, he was talking about going to places where there were 9s and 10s. How, yeah you may burn out a bunch, but if you are EVER successful, you are GUARANTEED at least a 9. Cuz that’s all there is. But if you go to a place with a 7 MAX, then the BEST you can do is just get a 7…and you probably won’t get even that (since you won’t always get the absolute best girl at the venue). So a guy with the best possible game at a shitty venue can only get, say, a 7 max, whereas a guy with shitty game at a great venue is guaranteed a 9+ when he IS successful, since there isn’t anything less than that there. So location is key to being successful.

    Anyway, that resonated with me and pissed me off to no end, lol, since my location is about as shitty as it can get lol. So I am trying to keep with the jobs applications.

    @culum

    I think you should still go out even now. I think you should do a bit of cold approaches here and there. Even in your shitty cities…they can’t be much worse than mine, and look at all the FRs I have done there. You will do better on your blitzes if you don’t just go for months long hibernations between the blitzes — work on it a bit here and there.

    And I think it is a good opportunity to get used to pulling girls. Just chat up the girls you see, then try to pull them to another part of the store. Do that a few times. Then try to pull girls outside. Then pull them to a new venue. Then several venues. Then try to pull them to bang. Once you are on your blitz again, you will have had more experience doing this, and will be warmed up from CONSISTENTLY doing it, so you will be able to pull the girls.

    I’m only helping out on this since I don’t know you personally. If I went out with you in real life, I would just poach all those girls you get the IOIs from and do nothing about lol. When I move, I need to find a guy like you. Some jacked ass dude that can’t pull for shit. That way I can just wait for girls to approach him, then game them away from him lol.

  59. I’d like to thank you assisting my complete unplugging from the feminine imperative. I’m a 46 year old father of three teen sons and an 8 year old daughter. My wife and I have been married 18 years but dated from college on since she was 19 (she’s 4 years my junior) and married her when she was 24. My life has been mostly purple pill as I’ve never fully conceded to the idea of egalitarian equalism and have been a natural risk taker bordering on narcissistic confidence. Coupled with above average looks and a righteous conservative lifestyle, I’ve found it always easier to disregard others expectations of how I should live my life.

    Nonetheless throughout my life I’ve allowed for subsumation of my motivations and production to conform to the feminine imperative. It was easier to work for the noble cause of my wife’s love and appreciation, pulling the plow in my chosen direction, but still pulling the plow for her and some old-books undying love of my wife.

    About 5 years back , it was clear my continued efforts producing of high income, new found creativity and artistry which I employed mostly for my wife, really wasn’t helping our marriage. She’d routinely demand fealty to her authority, berate me for my devil-may-care attitude, label me as a disappointing father. My Catholic faith became a reasonable work-around to her continued shit tests. I unilaterally changed my attitude of love for love’s sake to “my marriage sacrament is to get me closer to God, not necessarily to my wife, whose sex is just a fringe benefit”. I began to check out emotionally, weathering her epic rants about me not engaging her. Something didn’t make sense though. Through all my unstable behavior, drink-fueled socializing, and aggressive bedroom behavior, the wife never cut me off sexually for more that a few days. I make her orgasm, thus proving to me she was a willing (enough) partner in bed.

    I continued on, tacitly believing in my approach to sex and marriage and life, until six months ago when my 16 year old son asked me how to ask a girl out.

    A little background first. Steeped in sales as a kid with paper routes and working for my dad who paid me to push farm supplies to resistant farmers, I was early on daily cold calling, understood the Pareto principle and had read Andrew Carnigie’s How to win Friends and Influence People by 14 years old. At 19, my first step into psychology was Martin Seligman’s Learned Optimism. It clarified to me why at my best I refused to accept the distraction of nay-sayers and doubled down on irrational confidence.

    On my advice my son began trying the same techniques I used to initiate conversation and ultimately marry my wife. My son had to get out there, start conversation with as many girls as possible and sharpen his approach in a way that worked for him, and create his own comfortable delivery style. If he got one in ten positive responses he should consider himself a decent salesman of himself.

    Intrigued what others had to say about dating, and I considered myself rusty about this subject, I researched what the internet had to say about picking up women. It was just about the time when ROK meetup was cancelled, and was blown away by the natural familiarity of the manosphere, the pick up techniques, the boldly aggressive attitude of PUA’s and MRAs. It is the same machismo I’ve jealously guarded as part of my ego. It was then I found your website. My son was soon turned on to ROK, Gavin McInnes and Steven Crowder and has so far only had limited success in picking up girls beyond the initial exchange of phone numbers. His confidence is strong and I helped him through LJBF x2, the inuring benefit of rejection and other buffers women use to gain orbiters. It’s curious. He’s the president of his high-school class, makes extemporaneous public speaking under klieg lights look easy but like many successful men find difficult cross-applying his boldness to women. He chokes up when working a girl personally. As you’ve written this isn’t uncommon, but he’s on his way, knows his weaknesses and women’s tendencies more than any young man around. So again thank you.

    At the same time, I became addicted to TRM, rapidly understood your philosophy of intersexual dynamics and immediately approached my life differently. Rather than temper my confidence regarding love, women, personal relationships, I put both feet on the gas of Alpha-ness. Mr. Tomassi, I truly didn’t expect my life to change this dramatically.

    My marriage is going through growing pains as my wife naturally defends the Feminine Imperative, even if it denudes our boys’ confidence. She’ll solipisticly say “Don’t ask the pretty girl out. I’m not pretty, never was” (not true, she’s 5’7″, 125#, blonde and passes for a 30’s mom, but I quietly pass that shit test), or “Learn to be her friend first then she’ll like you” (Women have boyfriends and girlfriends. If you’re not banging her, you’re the girlfriend.) or “If I knew you Dad then like I know him now I’d never date him” (Women would rather share the Alpha than be saddled with a faithful AFC). To that last statement my 12 year old son asked at the dinner table no less “If dad’s style doesn’t work why’d you date him?” That brought down the house. My boy don’t really buy her line of reasoning as they see she routinely throws herself at me.

    Here it gets interesting. I reasserted dominance in the bedroom. I’ve always been energetic, but now with a vengeance for lost time. This might get a bit Penthouse Forum for the sake of clarity. Bedpost rope restraints returned after a 15 year hiatus to which she happily submitted. But I brought it up a notch. 2 hour, 4 point prone positioning, feeding her gin (even off my dick) from the bottle when she begs for it. Spanking and dirty talk. I even used the “Now you’re my whore” line. At times she’ll willingly get completely naked crawl over the bed to me standing there and want me to bang her standing up hanging on my hips. That lasts until she pulls off to avoid orgasm. Again thanks for the help. I am super happy about it. I even brought a cheap little disco ball in for a few nights and played Miranda Lambert chick rage music which added to the tension.

    Between amused mastery and soft dread my life swings from her complete desire to jealous anger to even she physically striking me in rage ( I maintain my distance when I see the hand ball up or a finger point aggressively at me. I call it the j’accuse stance). She’s punched me in the face hard once while driving the car. I might be literally driving her to my unintentional homicide. As you say, the medium is the message. She’s mostly completely overt in her communication style now but then sullen periods of mistrust of me (She says if she leaves me alone I might stray and sin or “I don’t trust you”). I sit and listen and tell her “That’s not true” when she get completely off the rails. For example, she’ll rage and cry for 30 minutes that she’s completely ashamed of our bedroom antics and I’m sick and we need help. Then within 10 minutes later she’ll say that she doesn’t want the rough stuff to stop and help her understand how to love me. Usually I’ll pat her side of the bed and say “Come back to bed honey.” Last time she blew her top was when she then stripped and banged me for the second time that night.

    When we analyze other couple’s sad marriages and I point out some common issues, she never really applies it to our marriage. On your advice , I don’t tell her Red Pill theory nor do I provoke the conversation directly. Usually, I just avoid it.

    Lastly, her menstrual cycle. She had an emergency hysterectomy 8 years ago so this gets tricky. I’ve been monitoring her desire for rough stuff and overt signs of affection. Is she begging for a night out? Is she waking me up at 4 AM for a fuck? Am I banging her in our garage after a house party on a dirty carpet? Yes to all three about two weeks ago, and I’ve been the asshole dad since. Thus I predict by October 10 she’ll be ovulating and back and well wash, rinse, repeat.

    This is quick learning from a motivated student. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I’ve bought both your books and my oldest has read them too. Feel free to use any of this and write with any questions.

    Update: The day I wrote this my wife was totally over me with zero prompting. Apparently timing her menstruation and peak libido will be harder yet. Oh, again tonight she’s grabbing my butt, even in front of the kids.

  60. Hank

    “So location is key to being successful.”

    wrong… all those 4-5-6 girls you keep running into are getting some other guy’s dick. They are not celibate. You’ve just not been good enough.

    Being successful is independent of location. Work on getting better in the meantime.

  61. Rollo from the OP: “It’s ironic how, in an egalitarian perspective, women are supposed to be independent, rational free-agents right up until the consequences of their actions begin to impact their lives. Then it’s either men’s fault for their state, men are held accountable for those decisions and behaviors, or they are expected to forgive those consequences and solve the problems women created for themselves.”

    This original post was really quite unexpected and to me it seems that it can really bring on the whine box from men. And I see it has.

    I think is liberating for man rather than subjugating us.

    Leading women is fun and productive.

    In contrast to the OMG’s Sentient and Blaximus. They actually see the principles of accepting the nature of women and guiding/ redirecting their energies.

    You don’t shut down children’s or women’s energies. You re-direct them into the positive.

    Be a masculine man in your own point of mental origin, have agency, and guide women into your frame.

    I think Sentient and Blaximus are coming up with mundane examples of married guys leading by example. But then again I am doing the same shit in real life and leading by red pill awareness and game. If I tried to give an example in this thread, my examples would be actually more mundane and boring than theirs. But they are working fine for me. And are in the same vein as them.

    Married Red Pill advice from Red Pill Professor. Withdraw time and Attention (i.e.Rollo’s take-away) for poor behavior. Don’t withdraw Affection and Presence except for a last resort of on their part of not providing sex in a relationship. Among the Four, the Two pairs are different.

    This original post has even more so exposed the differences in LTR vs. STR Game that really don’t exist as much–which I have been an advocate of–Game is fungible across all relationship platforms up until the point that a man actually change gears and not actually have the power of next. And settle with a LTR, poly or not and have children. At that point you actually have to make a decision. Next is no longer a tool.

    That video of Luke Gerhard RSD and 9,10 game was interesting.

    That “Reality Transurfing” by Vadim Zeland reference is also prescient in guys like Scribbler realigning their reality by mindset. It is actually the same stuff that KFG referred to in Alan Watts “The Book: The Taboo About Knowing Who You Are.”

    They are explaining what I live my life as on a daily basis. And have realigned with in the last three years through vast experience over 35 years.

    Frame is not power and poor game is not Amused Mastery. But learning game and getting proper frame and power and congruent mastery is the goal. It is a process and you take it as it comes. Your process as a male is more important that A Girl. The relationship skill you work on is more important than the girl. Not getting one-itis is more important than the girl.

    But, paradoxically if there is a great girl, you just might want to have your skills up to below par and do her well, rather than next her to a over par girl.

    Quality is important. You don’t want to next a quality girl because you were at fault and you didn’t appreciate her because of adequate lack of red pill awareness’s and lack of adequate game skills: STR or LTR depending on your desires and goals.

    Rollo Tomassi, Sentient and of course Blaximus are supremely congruent in this stuff.

    To want shortcuts to get there is an exercise in the woman you deal with being able to peg you as in-congruent. You still have to do the work.

    That Vadim Zeland stuff about Transurfing is good stuff. I read a couple chapters of the first book. Well it kinda justified my idea of taking a fork in the road (make a choice) after knowing who and what you are IN THE WORLD. ( Alan Watts Stuff). It’s not by the power of Nexting every fucking thing that is feral, and avoiding risk at all cost that males actually live a fulfilling life. Men live on their edge and do take risks, but this is only advisable when they have mastery and skill in advancing their purpose, passion and pursuit.

    Live on the edge, but don’t fuck up.

    Totally out of context, Zeland buils up to the point, but it is on point of masculine decisions and choosing how to proceed in life:

    Reality manifests itself in all its multiplicity precisely because the number of variations is infinite. Any point of origin will flow into the chain of causes and effects. Having chosen your point of origin, you will get a corresponding manifestation of reality. We can say that reality unfolds itself along a life track, depending on the selected point of origin. Everyone gets what he or she chooses. You have the right to choose just because the infinity of variations already exists. Nobody prevents you from selecting whatever destiny you like. Mastering your destiny comes down to one simple thing – making a choice.

    People are accustomed to the idea that their actions attract visible consequences that are easy to explain. The influence of thoughts is usually unnoticed and therefore, you cannot explain nor predict it. It may seem that establishing an obvious causal link between thoughts and their subsequent events is relatively difficult. But you are about to see that a person’s thoughts have a direct influence on the form of his reality. People get exactly what they choose.

    Someone could object: “Are you trying to say that all these oceans, mountains, planets, galaxies – they are all nothing but the product of my thoughts?” The tendency of man to sometimes consider himself the center of the Universe is part of human nature. Actually, man occupies a tiny niche in this infinite space. Our world is populated with millions of living organisms, and each and every one of them makes its own contribution to the formation of reality. Each creature has its own parameters of thought waves. If you’re not comfortable viewing plants as thinking objects, you may name the process differently. It won’t change the main idea. We can’t even say for sure that non-living things don’t have anything similar to the thoughts of living organisms. Not to mention the Spirit that penetrates everything in existence and which we call God. Each creature has its own consciousness and forms the layer of its own world. We can say that there are an infinite number of life tracks, destinies, for each person in the space of variations. We have no reason to resent our destiny because we have been given the right to choose. Our only problem is that we don’t know how to do this. The world appears to us in its multitude of possibilities, as if it was created to satisfy any possible need. Anyone can find everything they ever wanted in this world. Even in different areas of knowledge, the world appears to us just the way we want to see it. For example, idealism claims that the world is an illusion, and the world agrees. Materialism claims the opposite, and the world again has nothing against that opinion. People argue among themselves, imposing their opinions on each other, while the world shows that they are all right in their opinions. Well, isn’t this great?!

    The space of variations is a so-called illusion, while the material manifestation is the same thing as the “material world.” We always get what we choose.

    Same as the Alan Watts stuff in The Taboo About Knowing Who You Are.

    Same as actually getting out in Mother Nature. Most of getting out in mother nature is passive: mountain biking, kayaking, hiking and nature photography, and shooting handguns, shotguns and rifles. Active getting out in mother nature is chainsawing live trees, planting trees, gardening, farming, hunting small game and large game and actively getting a wildlife habitat managed for your own self interests.

    I re-iterate, it is out of context, but the Reality Transurfing author puts it in good context.

    It is about not being tied to the reality of others, but being able to choose through decision how to your attitude in the infinite number of possibilities.

    No different than mindset in the game of golf after hitting a bad shot, or after in relationship game fumbling the thing at hand. Your mindset in going forward it valuable and Next is not always the answer.

    It is not about the girl you are with, it is about the process of game. If you can’t handle one at the time, maybe you should work on handling her if she if valuable.

    It is not about LTR or STR or one night lay or long term monogamy or marriage. All that is totally irrelevant to game itself.

    And in terms of LTR’s game as described by Rollo, Senient and Blax is expressed in this:

    “Bear this truth in mind, you do not buy into a good marriage or LTR, you create one, you build one. Your sweet little Good Girl who grew up in the Amish Dutch Country is just as hypergamous as the club slut you nailed last night. Different girls, different contexts, same hypergamy. You may have enough experience to know a woman who’d make a good foundation, but you ultimately build your own marriage/monogamy based on your own strengths or dissolve it based on inherent flaws – there are no pre-fab marriages.”

    https://therationalmale.com/2012/05/21/relational-equity/

  62. Hank: “Anyway, that resonated with me and pissed me off to no end, lol, since my location is about as shitty as it can get lol. So I am trying to keep with the jobs applications.”

    Sentient: “Hank
    “So location is key to being successful.”
    wrong… all those 4-5-6 girls you keep running into are getting some other guy’s dick. They are not celibate. You’ve just not been good enough.
    Being successful is independent of location. Work on getting better in the meantime.

    Paradoxical to you, not to me and Sentient.

    At your age self improvement is the most important goal of all: “You’ve just not been good enough.

    I agree that shitty environments suck. I agree that you should be in a better environment.

    The question is: What are you going to do about that?

    Make you better and adapt to you being better in your environment.

    Make yourself better and go to a better envirionment.

    Nobody is actually going to care that you are in a shitty environment and give you props for that. Except perhaps you.

    Once again, what are you going to do about it?

    My recommendation is that you shouldn’t settle for meritocracy over excellence and not for poor location over good location and not for poor job over good job.

    Did you ever think about taking a huge risk and going with one of those high risk jobs of manpower?

    Or developing skills through a trade so you can move anywhere?

    I assume you aren’t in the United States. Maybe after the election you can decide to come here.

  63. If I tried to give an example in this thread, my examples would be actually more mundane and boring than theirs. But they are working fine for me. And are in the same vein as them.

    SJF – to me hypergamy is gravely misunderstood… the beta mindset, the coming from scarcity mindset, infects appreciation of it… guys too willing to believe they will be replaced every time they leave the table to use the bathroom… silly.

    If you are fucking a girl, hypergamy is your friend because it is attuned towards YOU. Her first line of “belief” (could not write reason LOl) is that YOU are THE GUY because… YOU are fucking her. she wants to believe that YOU ARE THE GUY. She will first look to make sure you are the guy and only AFTER you fail these tests will her hypergamy expand its scope outward.

    For proof, just look at every girl with some dweeb and you thought “him? WTF does she see in him?”… but if he is fucking her, she saw something and she really wants to BELIEVE she is seeing something.

    So if you are fucking a girl, focus on the mundane, the small maneuvers… THAT will keep her hypergamy working in your favor.

    Fail these tests over time and you are toast of course, but they are yours to fail and you have some time…

  64. Hank

    ‘Paradoxical to you, not to me and Sentient.

    Your pursuit of your profession, your personal pursuit and your passion is more important than any girl you will get with in game. Remember that and proceed to make your professions and your pursuit more important than getting with a woman.

    Women will get with you when you are better.

    It is you not them. It is your purpose not theirs. It is you being attractive (Whatever that may be).

    But it is you not them that you should concentrate on. I think you are centered on them and is not drawing in game.

    Guess fucking who:

    Your Purpose Must Come Before Your Relationship

    Every man knows that his highest purpose in life cannot be reduced to any particular relationship. If a man prioritizes his relationship over his highest purpose, he weakens himself, disserves the universe, and cheats his woman of an authentic man who can offer her full, undivided presence.

    Admit to yourself that if you had to choose one or the other, the perfect intimate relationship or achieving your highest purpose in life, you would choose to succeed at your purpose. Just this selfknowledge often relieves much pressure a man feels to prioritize his relationship when, in fact, it is not his highest priority.

    Your mission is your priority. Unless you know your mission and have aligned your life to it, your core will feel empty. Your presence in the world will be weakened, as will your presence with your intimate partner. The next time you notice yourself “giving in” to your woman, postponing your mission and denying your true purpose in order to spend time with her, stop. Tell your woman that you love her, but you cannot deny your heart’s purpose. Tell her that you will spend 30 minutes (or some specific time) with her in absolute attention and total presence, but then you must return to carry on your mission.

    Your woman will be more fulfilled with 30 minutes a day of undivided attention and ravishing love than she will with a few hours of your weak and divided presence when your heart really isn’t into it. Time you spend with your woman should be time you really want to be with her more than anything else. If you’d rather be doing something else, she’ll feel it. Both of you will be dissatisfied.

    If you are wasting your time in a poor environment, then you are wasting your time in a poor environment.

    If you are wasting your time in a poor profession, then what?

    You want to continue this way.

    Getting laid is one thing, having power in life is another.

  65. @all

    I’ve just made an amazing discovery.

    Its the discovery of the century.

    The commenter Sentient is not human. He is in fact an early AI program.

    I used to think Sentient was simply an old geezer that could not accept that things were different from the way they were back in 1937. However, his constant inability to comprehend even basic arguments or remember simple statements proved this was not the case. This led me to the realization that he must be a computer program.

    One of the problems with early AI is its limited processing power. There is only so much advanced thinking that it is capable of. So to preempt this, the Sentient bot cuts off any logical debate or criticisms of its statements by simply accusing detractors of being “gamma”. It is beautiful in its simplicity. The Sentient bot spews forth its “Man Up” and “A Man does whatever he wants” platitudes, and then insults anyone that questions this in order to prevent exposing its limited processing power and thus the fact that it is indeed a computer program rather than a man.

    We see, though, even this is not truly enough. The Sentient bot often becomes overwhelmed and fails to comprehend very basic facts. For instance, the Sentient bot accuses me of not going out and practicing more. That I simply need to work to get better. Yet to any human being, it is blatantly obvious that I go out all the time. I have so many FRs here that many people have actually complained about it. Yareally has repeated scolded the Sentient bot for this fact as well, telling it “Hank IS going out”. And yet the Sentient bot cannot process this information. Thus we have this most recent instance of the bot telling me to “work on getting better” when its apparent to all that I have been going out all the time and learning new things each time I go out, despite my limited environment.

    Additionally, there is a serious flaw in its reasoning about the environment not making a difference. An easy mistake for a computer program to make, but one which a living human being can see is completely ridiculous. A person who wishes to learn to fish will have a much easier time learning to fish in the atlantic ocean than in the middle of the Sahara desert. Now yes, technically the man in the Sahara could still watch youtube videos on fishing. He could still practice casting a line. He could still read up on fishing books. So he could make *some* progress. However, his progress will necessarily be slow so long as a remains in such a limited environment. His best option would be to do what he can while he is stuck in the desert, but work on relocating to the Atlantic as soon as possible. There, his fishing skill will improve much faster.

    The same goes for my present location. I’ve made a fair amount progress over the last few months…but I am limited in that I have only one halfway decent venue to go to and the fact that I spend most of my time just looking for girls. Any human being can clearly see that moving to a place with more attractive women and more venues would help out substantially. There I could spend most of my time actually practicing game, rather than just wander around LOOKING for girls. I would also ENJOY going to these venues, and would very much WANT to talk to the girls, rather than force myself to go to the same venue over and over to *maybe* chat up a few 5s…if I can find them. Obvious to a human, but not so obvious to an AI program.

    Truly though, this is an amazing day for mankind. Real, working AI is quite an achievement, even in its current stunted form.

  66. @sjf

    “hey starving african kids. don’t worry about trying to get food. Instead read this treatise by Zen master Zengi on gaining enlightenment through observing the trails of snails.”

    lol

  67. @ Sentient

    The non-LTR game doesn’t understand mundane as in the same terms Rollo has written about before.

    https://therationalmale.com/2012/03/09/relationship-game-a-primer/

    https://therationalmale.com/2012/04/23/relationship-game-wife-sex/

    Good LTR relationship game or Married Red Pill Game is paradoxical to the Nexting of Red Pill. Only pursue high value women for LTR and Next if not, but dont’ next with impunity or you might miss out.

    Get with a Great girl. With No One-itis.

    Because it is NO BIG DEAL to maintain, while executing no big deal Relationship Game.

    LTR’s do involve controlling women, but only because of your skill, their trust and them following you if you are that good.

    Don’t expect otherwise and you won’t be disappointed.

    And if you can’t find decent girls perhaps you are not in the right venue.

  68. Kfg: “anon: ” . . . just about every single cover of every women’s magazine includes details on how to improve one’s SMV (from makeup to diet).”
    Fallacy of Omission Indeed.
    I’m sorry, but Rollo threw a wild jab and you did him the favor of leaning in to it. If you do not see it, the omission is in your ability to do so.”

    My quote above was a segue following this statement:
    “Yes, it’s a complicated equation because women judge EACH OTHER on their sexual market value also. And they used to judge each other a lot more on their marriage market value…and that is where society has really changed.
    So yes, makeup and diet are ways to improve one’s SMV. They do not improve one’s marriageability so much.

    When you eliminated the qualifying statement, which eliminated the context, so yeah…fallacy of omission.

    I further clarified in a subsequent post:
    “I also disagree that “self improvement” isn’t a feature for “female red pill” sites. They discuss it a great deal. Granted, the context is usually more along the lines of humble-bragging and out humble-bragging. But that’s more a feature than a bug.”

    I suspect that Rollo does not spend much time trolling female red pill sites. Many are chock full of tips for all sorts of “self improvement” and little if any of it pertains to makeup.
    But one does grow weary of reading about Minny’s or Buffy’s (not their real names) claims of “I’m perfectly perfect! And you should be too…just do this”
    Perhaps I grow weary because I know they are full of shyte.

  69. @ Hank

    You are only a starving kid if you fancy yourself as such.

    We are not here to give a shit about you or judge you. But we damn well may try to get you to try more efficiently by having you enhance your strengths and minimize your weaknesses.

    We are not actually antagonistic to you in the Tribe. Don’t misuderstand your role in the short term is to get laid and your purpose in the long term is to have your profession (job) be decent and good.

    And get to another place.

    You are not being criticized by guys like me. We are trying to push you to newer heights. You be you. You don’t want positive inspiration? Fine with you.

  70. @ Sentient

    “If you are fucking a girl, hypergamy is your friend because it is attuned towards YOU. Her first line of “belief” (could not write reason LOl) is that YOU are THE GUY because… YOU are fucking her. she wants to believe that YOU ARE THE GUY. She will first look to make sure you are the guy and only AFTER you fail these tests will her hypergamy expand its scope outward.”

    This is gold. Very important for men to realize and remember this.

  71. @ hank

    Have you had sex yet or are you still incel? Who was the last girl you ran Game on and how did it end?

  72. Women expect men to be dominant, problem is, society gives men no room to express it. You can’t be economically dominant because women can make their own money. Me, for example, only know of one way to be dominant over a woman and that’s to use my god given physical strength. And I don’t say that as a good or bad thing, just pointing out something that is.

    You know, I was on YouTube and I came across a Domestic violence video. And in the comments section, many young women left many of the same comments of “I wanted to leave, but it’s hard to do when you are in love”. And it made me think back over the last 20 something odd years of my life

    I used to be the nice, beta provider type. And in every case, the same thing happened. Essentially I was used for what I could provide. Money, favors, a car to give rides. But not once did a girl ever fall in love with me because of the nice things I did for her. Yet at the same time, I see women professing their love for men who beat them.

    These experiences have killed the nice guy inside of me and made me view women as objects to be used, especially the more I learn about hypergamy. The only exception, as far as I am concerned is a traditional woman who actively suppresses her hypergamous instincts in favor of the good guy. And shows it by her actions.

    The sad truth is that the unleashing of female hypergamy is going to produce more ex nice guys who imitate the users and abusers women show that they want by her actions.

  73. @anon

    “Face it, If stilettos repulsed men women wouldn’t wear them.”

    Well women don’t wear them anyway, 97 times out of a 100 so what an interesting comment that ends up being. I think it’s because men like stilettoes so bring on the Keds.

    “When the girls working the peep show go on strike they wear flip flops and nursing shoes.”

    Amazing that you have to pluck strippers, out of all types of women, to make your point about females also being under some pressure to accommodate opposite sex imperatives. Strippers make 2 grand a night and they’re willing to put on a uniform if need be. Lol. There is so much given away there.

    “Errr, but, but…sometimes women do what men want to! Look at strippers for example!”

    Why did you have to pick out 2k a night strippers? Because 95% of normal women don’t give enough of a fuck about men’s desires to even go for walks 3-4 times a week to maintain some semblance of a healthy physique. Men like health, afterall, so onwards to the ice cream aisle ladies! When 2k a night, 20 year old drug addicts are the only demographic that gives any thought to the male imperative (for the money mind you, not for the sake of men) then you’ve just made all of Rollo’s points even more fortified.

  74. @ AR, theDeti

    Interesting wedding AND DIVORCE vids. The second wedding video from the 70’s I found particularly interesting though. I have it on good authority that the man performing the ceremony in that second video was none other than our very own SJF – lol

    Namaste

  75. But @Hank, sentient is right.

    I don’t know if it was you, but I have seen multiple examples of younger guys lamenting how they were disadvantaged by not being raised in environments where masculine behavior was valued. So, when some guy who knows and understands that environment is trying to help you to act less cringey, and more like a regular guy, why do you flip your shit? Nobody needs to be an alpha natural to tell that some other guy has issues. We know that every guys has some issues, but you advertise your issues a lot.

    Girls can smell issues from the next block. Would you go out to sarge packing a rotten fish in your pants? Taking care of your issues is a high priority for you since your game is failing solely (no pun intended) because of your issues. Thinking that you will handle your issues by diving inside a pussy is not only unrealistic, you will just get more fucked up if you do manage to catch one.

    By the way, trying to take down a guy who has everything you want is exactly fucking gamma cancer. The guys that try to help you have succeeded at everything you want, professionally, and socially. Some even learned PUA game and use it. They are qualified to give the advice they give you. I certainly try to listen and learn from them. If someone calls you out for something, just let go of your ego and try to learn from it. PUA is one aspect of being a guy, but if you can’t master the other aspects, you will end up with nothing you’re chasing.

    And really, stop attacking “old”. Who’s work are you doing when you attack the older generation? What social conditioning are you acting out when you call a guy out merely for being born a generation earlier. Who, exactly, is acting like a robot here?

    Grow up, own your shit.

  76. @ Colleen for divorcing Josh,

    ………”being an asshole is neither good nor bad. It just is.”

    Namaste

  77. The problem is that women have been socialized to believe that men are disposable and easily replaceable

    Their belief is innate, not a result of any socialization. They have believed that in every era and every society.

  78. @ Via Vitae,

    “PUA is one aspect of being a guy, but if you can’t master the other aspects, you will end up with nothing you’re chasing.”

    Focusing on the other aspects of positive masculinity and gaining traction in THOSE areas should help a guy to develop that ZFG vibe that women can smell a mile away when he learns, practices and uses his PUA skills. To my understanding, that ZFG attitude is one major difference between beta and alpha. It makes since then why women are attracted to the “bad boys” even though they may not have developed themselves in other areas. If you’re naturally THAT WAY, then great. Good for your Mr. Dark Triad – lol. Most men aren’t naturally solipsistic like that and have to develop their own solipsism which gives them the ability to quickly re-frame shit and defend themselves from attacks and shit tests. You have to develop your own masculine solipsism where your frame is unshakeable and you have the ability to immediately reframe every little social faux paux that you make in real time to stay “in state”. Just following the back and forth arguments b/t the alphas on this forum in their debates demonstrates this concept – lol.

    Nothing new or profound here, I know, but I think it is important to remind oneself of the need to develop it as it’s been a huge concept for me to learn as an “older guy”. Gaining mastery and success in other areas SHOULD help with developing that solipsistic ZFG vibe. I commend all guys for their efforts in developing their PUA skills, but for certain guys (especially the younger ones) it may be like putting the cart before the horse. I like Elliott Hulse and his videos and think he is a good mentor for all men but especially younger ones struggling to develop a more WELL ROUNDED masculine identity. When I speak of male solipsism I mean it as a positive and adaptive ADD ON for men much like the “daddy patch” is a positive add on for women given to them from bonding with their fathers. Men are not naturally solipsistic but it sure helps to be that way in many situations and to have that adaptation to use when needed to maintain frame. Just a theory.

    Don’t forget to breathe into your balls – lol

    Namaste

  79. @ Hollenhund,

    “Their belief is innate, not a result of any socialization. They have believed that in every era and every society.”

    I agree. It’s a hindbrain hypergamy thing. Hence the need for “the patch.” 🙂

  80. This video shows the nerdy guy being all “in his own head” vs. the same guy acting like his true self as a ZFG thug hitting on the same girl minutes later – lol. Sorry, but I didn’t observe a lot of fancy PUA stuff in the second re-enactment. Just a ZFG attitude. Funny shit. I know which “character” I would rather be.

  81. You mention a wall that signifies a point in a woman’s life beyond which it is getting harder for her to find and capture the male she desires. Guess what, it’s no longer there. I live in Turkey, which is considerably more conservative than Christian/western societies, and still, women are encouraged with this you-go-girll bs in a way to disown their mistakes in courtship. They have nothing to offer a man: no cooking, no domestic-chore handling, no good sex, no capability to raise and educate a child or to be a life-long partner to a man through hardships. I am a 31 y/o man and I see no reason to marry, even to a so-called conservative woman of my country. My only hope is now to search for a Russian girl online and fly there to meet with her, because they are generally accustomed to tough conditions and therefore have more substance & solid personality traits that I can engage with on intellectual level. Here, even at the age of 35, women think that they are a God-sent gift to men, and we must be thankful for the way they are and what they offer! Can you believe this bs? So Don Tomassino, what gives? Where is this wall? Will all of us be mgtow in the end?

  82. “Amazing that you have to pluck strippers, out of all types of women, to make your point about females also being under some pressure to accommodate opposite sex imperatives.”

    A stripper is the extreme example to make the point about the SMV because in that occupation, it’s ALL SMV. So there is no intersection whatsoever between the SMV and MMV. What determines “value” for a woman in the SMV? Not “frame”.

    These forums spend a lot of time talking about frame and improving frame.
    Short version is basically, “be valuable or at least fake it until you are”
    But the male and female SMV measure value differently.
    Ask just about any guy who has ever obtained a serious position of power or prestige position and they will tell you in that minute they had never been handsomer, funnier, more clever, more attractive to women.

    Frame is a way of projecting that value even if you don’t have the position of power, Frame says, “I am valuable” or “I have great potential”.
    Women don’t have the same the same measure on the SMV.
    Power doesn’t improve their chances. It’s just about 100 percent looks…and yes, makeup is a fast and easy way to change an appearance. The reason strippers, hookers, models and movie stars wear the most.

  83. @Via Vitae

    I don’t know if it was you, but I have seen multiple examples of younger guys lamenting how they were disadvantaged by not being raised in environments where masculine behavior was valued.

    I see this all the time. Men lamenting about how their mothers didn’t love them/mistreated them/etc.

    I had problems growing up, too, that hit my self-confidence very hard. Lack of social skills because of ASD and because I was two years younger than my classmates. Lack of sports ability relative to my classmates because I was two yours younger and because of ASD. Lots of insecurity

    The problems with social skills and sports started becoming less of a problem because I hit puberty and because I started paying attention a little to social stuff. I worked on my confidence and started approaching girls in ONS-only situations. Social circles were still a problem as far as asking girls out was concerned…I didn’t have girls in my social circle. I didn’t understand the importance of having girls in one’s social circle. I didn’t understand how to be fun so that I would get invited to parties. I didn’t think that people liked me. They did…I hung out with boys who were getting laid and had motorcycles and there were girls who wanted me to ask them out, but I didn’t know about the girls.

    If you want to get invited to parties, learn how to be fun. Being insecure will hinder your ability to be fun. Being fun requires confidence.

    If you want to get laid, enlarge your social circle…this is the way most boys get laid.

    If you want to enlarge your social circle, get invited to parties and go to meetups.

    If you are insecure because of shit from childhood, pile all your childhood shit on a big bonfire and burn it. Focus on your positives…your situation may be shitty, but your assets may be gold and you can use them to improve your situation. Don’t pay any attention to things that you can’t change, like having a shitty childhood. Don’t give abusive parents an apartment in your head and be sure to recognize any programs running in your head (maybe uploaded into your head by abusive parents/schoolmates/etc.) that feed your insecurity and refuse to listen to them.

  84. @Sentient
    “SJF – to me hypergamy is gravely misunderstood… the beta mindset, the coming from scarcity mindset, infects appreciation of it… guys too willing to believe they will be replaced every time they leave the table to use the bathroom… silly.”

    This.
    This whole comment is one of the strongest, clearest comment I’ve read here in a long time. It is sponge-worthy.

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