Environmental Stresses

unravel

If there’s one Google search term that’s become synonymous with The Rational Male it’s the word ‘Hypergamy’. Seriously, Google it.

If you listen to my seminar lecture from the Man in Demand conference from last year (sidebar), you’ll get why I believe that Hypergamy is one of the most important factors driving our feminine-primary social order. I didn’t mention it in the lecture, but when I was writing the outline for that talk I titled my notes ‘Hypergamy; From the Micro to the Macro’. If you consider how women have evolved to be sexual selector or filters for what, on a subconscious level, is really directing the breeding course of the human race it behoves a man to understand the biochemical influences that predispose women to Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks.

One thing I get asked a lot about with respect to the hormonal nature of Hypergamy (ovulatory shift) is that most hormonal forms of birth control predispose women to the Beta Bucks side of Hypergamy because essentially their biochemistry is tricked into thinking it’s already pregnant.

I’ve covered this in the past, but I usually answer this by pointing out that the biological hardware and firmware of a woman still means her sexuality is cyclic while men’s is always-on. It may be that Hypergamy and ovulatory shift are less pronounced in a woman that’s on the pill, and even then women technically go off the pill on their placebo weeks, but the evolved mechanics don’t change. However, it’s no great secret that these mechanics become suppressed in women. This is just the cost of a women’s monopoly on a concealed form of birth control.

Milo Yianopolous generated a predictable outrage with his post Birth Control Makes Women Crazy, but it’s only pushing women’s indignation buttons because all his observations are true.

  • Birth control makes women fat
  • The hormones in birth control alters women’s voices to a sexually disadvantageous tone, evolutionarily speaking
  • Birth control distorts female subcoms that men consider sexy
  • It predisposes women to disregard their evolved sexual filtering mechanisms

There are other bullet points Milo covered in this article, however, the most important one I think ought to be considered here is:

Birth Control Makes Women Choose the Wrong Mates

It’s already established that going on the Pill makes you less attractive to men. But it also affects who you’re attracted to as well. Healthy, fertile women seek out men who are genetically different to them. Women on the Pill do the opposite, seeking out men who are closer to their own tribe.

Now, all that considered, when we introduce a variable like Vasalgel to the social mix it is possible that women’s sexual attitudes will progressively shift to a more natural state when and if the presumption of birth control falls mostly on men. Granted, most women who’re aware of Vasalgel at this point are enthusiastic about it. The common refrain is always the default of shaming men and how it’s about time men shoulder the “burden” of birth control , or how relieved they’d be for not having to remember to take a pill once a day and how they hate how it makes them feel.

This response from women is usually followed by, “But you could never trust irresponsible men to be honest about it, so women will still have to take the pill as a fail-safe for stupid and untrusted men.” So, at least initially, I’d have to be a bit skeptical that women’s birth control-influenced sexual habits and the social mandates that follow from them would be significantly impacted.

However, this also brings us to a point where we should consider how men and women in a monogamous or semi-monogamous state will have those relationships altered by a woman trusting a man enough, or confirming he’s on, with Vasalgel to the point that she abandons her own hormonal birth control. Hypothetically, consider this; a woman who was attracted to that man while under the influence of hormonal birth control now has her biochemistry revert back to a natural state.

There are quite a few studies that posit women’s hormonal birth control may be altering the course of human evolution. I’ve always argued that the root of women’s Hypergamous natures, their manifested behaviors, their sexual selection processes and even the rise of a feminine-primary social order can all be traced to women’s menstrual cycle and the extending behaviors inspired by it.

hormones_menstruation

For a more detailed analysis of how women’s menstruation and ovulatory shift influences women’s sexual natures and, more largely, how it influences Hypergamy, have a look at my essays You Friend Menstruation and Estrus respectively. From these posts, you’ll see that the latter half of women’s 28-day cycle is what I call the “Beta Phase” of women’s breeding preference, while the first 12 to 14 days of her ‘up cycle’ (proliferative phase) while she’s on build up to ovulation is the “Alpha Phase”.

Now imagine here that our hypothetical couple met while the woman had been on birth control for the better part of her adolescent and adult life. Her hormonal profile and subsequently her sexual selection predilections would follow along the line for progesterone in this graph. Thus, it would follow that her selecting this man was influenced by the behavioral set that progesterone predisposes her to – more Beta, more comforting, more rapport, more feminized physical features and more feminine (or feminine-identifying) sensibilities.

Once that guy goes on Vasalgel and affords her with the luxury of not needing hormonal birth control her hormonal profile and subsequent behaviors shift back to what evolution had found successful for women’s breeding for millennia. To put this into perspective, imagine the larger social implications of women shifting back to a natural hormone state. To be sure, this shift would be a gradual process, but as it stands now we have to account for the overwhelming degree of social control women are afforded in western(izing) societies today.

I don’t think it is too far a stretch to presume that the social engineering that’s led to the feminization of men today began around the time unilaterally female-controlled birth control became ubiquitous. I covered this in the Adaptation series of posts, but I think it needs to be added that the social power women wield today came as a result of this first shift towards hormonal birth control and the behavioral and psychological changes it’s wrought in women. Furthermore, men have consequently adapted to accommodate for this power shift as a result women’s shift in breeding strategies.

We now live in an age when women are expected to be Strong Independent® providers for themselves (however that’s achieved) and self-sufficient enough to make men’s provisioning relatively unnecessary, yet the characteristics of a hormonal profile of women on HBC (hormonal birth control) theoretically predispose them towards attraction to men who fit the, as Milo puts it, baby-faced ‘provider’ type.

Now consider that women who have been afforded this social power – power ceded to them from generations of feminized men who adapted to women’s hormonally influenced sexual strategies – shift back to the hormonal profile nature intended for them as a result of widespread unilaterally male-controlled BC. You get, at least initially, new generations of women who have the Beta Bucks side of the Hypergamy equation tied up nicely, but now, likely proudly, women shift back towards the extremes that Hypergamy and ovulatory shift predispose them to.

In the long term this might be good news for conventional masculinity on whole. Less Beta pandering, less ‘get in touch with your feminine side’ bullshit, more much needed male assertiveness, more conventionally male sensibilities and dominance.

Harold posted this in last week’s comment thread:

Women expect men to be dominant, problem is, society gives men no room to express it. You can’t be economically dominant because women can make their own money. Me, for example, I only know of one way to be dominant over a woman and that’s to use my god given physical strength. And I don’t say that as a good or bad thing, just pointing out something that is.

You know, I was on YouTube and I came across a Domestic violence video. And in the comments section, many young women left many of the same comments of “I wanted to leave, but it’s hard to do when you are in love”. And it made me think back over the last 20 something odd years of my life

I used to be the nice, beta provider type. And in every case, the same thing happened. Essentially I was used for what I could provide. Money, favors, a car to give rides. But not once did a girl ever fall in love with me because of the nice things I did for her. Yet at the same time, I see women professing their love for men who beat them.

These experiences have killed the nice guy inside of me and made me view women as objects to be used, especially the more I learn about hypergamy. The only exception, as far as I am concerned is a traditional woman who actively suppresses her hypergamous instincts in favor of the good guy. And shows it by her actions.

The sad truth is that the unleashing of female hypergamy is going to produce more ex nice guys who imitate the users and abusers women show that they want by her actions.

Harold’s experience and later disillusionment is a common one for men in the manosphere. However, what needs to be factored into his awakening is that his experience follows the exact scheme we can expect from women’s HBC influenced Hypergamy. For five generations now, feminized men progressively ‘get woke’ to the fact that what they’ve been taught is expected of them in order to be attractive to women are the Beta Phase attributes inspired largely by women’s hormonal imbalances. It’s when they come to realize, hopefully sooner than later, that those feminized characteristic are a detriment to their own sexual imperatives that this condition is exposed.

It’s important to consider the societal ramification that something like Open Hypergamy (even Open Cuckoldry) will mean in an era when women must look to the most Hypergamously desirable men and seek their approval if they are to breed with them after something like Vasagel becomes commonplace. Presuming Red Pill awareness, combined with women’s hubristic attitudes about Open Hypergamy spread as I believe they will, you will eventually come to a generation of highly desirable men with the awareness, power and the choice to deny undesirable women the satisfaction of their long term sexual strategy.

Whether or not the majority of Beta men will exercise this power is speculative, but the the fact remains that women’s Open Hypergamy will become more and more unignoarable to them and they will have a new determinative power women will have to adapt to and compensate for in their relating with men whom they hope to have children with.

In Milo’s article there’s a very damning comparative study that suggests the rise in U.S. divorce rates coincides directly with the advent of HBC for women.

divorce-pill

Exactly why there is such a close correlation between the rise of the Pill and the rise of divorce rates we can’t say with total certainty, but the relationship is stark. Possible explanations include: a lack of children leading to fewer reasons for couples to stay together, and… all of the items mentioned on the list above.

Though Milo is reluctant to speculate, I would suggest that this stark parallel isn’t the result of less child births (abortion rates are also commensurate with the invention of HBC), but rather it’s a result of the behavioral shifts HBC has worked in women’s breeding strategies paired with men adapting to them (i.e. mass normalization of men’s feminization). I think Milo is too kind in his suggesting a lack of children would lead to divorce, when the uglier truth is that women’s initiating 70%+ of all divorces today is the result of the Hypergamous control HBC empowers women with.

Environmental Impact

In chapter four of the book The Red Queen, Matt Ridley details how environmental factors, particularly social and population environments, have an influence on gender determination for humans and other higher order animals. A lots been written about R and K mating selection strategies in the manosphere so I’ll save that discussion for another post, but what was relevant to me (while I was listening to this chapter recently) was how socially created environmental stresses had an effect on what gender a society preferred a child be born to parents.

Contrary to popular belief a preference for boys over girls is not universal. Indeed, there is a close relationship between social status and the degree to which sons are preferred. Laura Betzig of the University of Michigan noticed that, in feudal times, lords favored their sons, but peasants were more likely to leave possessions to daughters. While their feudal superiors killed or neglected daughters or banished them to convents, peasants left them more possessions: Sexism was more a feature of elites than of the unchronicled masses.

[…]Lower down the social scale, daughters are preferred even today: A poor son is often forced to remain single, but a poor daughter can marry a rich man. In modern Kenya, Mukogodo people are more likely to take daughters than sons to clinics for treatment when they are sick, and therefore more daughters than sons survive to the age of four. This is rational of the Mukogodo parents because their daughters can marry into the harems of rich Samburu and Maasai men and thrive, whereas their sons inherit Mukogodo poverty. In the calculus of Trivers-Willard, daughters are better grandchildren-production devices than sons.

Needless to say, this chapter also covered the ‘one child’ policy enforced by China to address overpopulation and how for every 100 girls there are now 122 boys available. Beyond this, however, was the interesting hypothesis that depending on social and cultural stress present, preference for siring boys or girls has historically come in relation to which gender was more likely to make both the child and its parents’ lives easier as well as pass on its genetic legacy. There is even speculation that evolution has accounted for this in how our biochemistry changes to select for a boy or a girl in a given environment.

It’s an interesting aside to consider that until George Bush senior was in office, all prior Presidents had sons. Clinton, George W. Bush and Obama all have daughters. Granted, this is speculative, but also consider how HBC and the resulting feminine-primary social order since it was invented, has directed our culture to normalize empowering women while handicapping men – all in the name of egalitarian equalism of course.

At no time in history has it been more advantageous to be a woman in western(izing) cultures. Hannah Rosin acknowledged the advancement of women at the expense of men in The End of Men as far back as 2010. I add this here because it outlines the degree to which society has opted for the betterment of women, while simultaneously affirming the idea that men become more feminine since the time of the sexual revolution.

Is it mere coincidence that men have been encouraged to “get in touch with their feminine side”, to identify more like women, to alter their ways of communication to be more female-accommodating, and to redefine conventional masculinity as “toxic” while reinforcing a new feminine-correct definition of masculinity for men? Is it coincidence that 95% of all transgender children are boys being encouraged and affirmed by their parents and teachers to switch to being girls?

And is all of this coincidence in an era when the social condition is one that provides benefits and entitlements to girls; one in which teachers presume a feminine-correct bias in their teaching methods?

This of course is all speculative, but these are unignorable observations about our feminine-primary social order. I’m in no way implying that Vasalgel or its like will alter what already is in our social structure, but I will speculate that women’s physical and paradigm shift back from an HBC influenced mating methodology to a naturalistic one will eventually have larger societal implications.

I believe that the Red Pill men of today will be in the perfect position to exploit this, or to inform the next generations of men how to exploit this shift for themselves.

585 comments

  1. This is an excellent and very thought provoking post, I never considered these very plausible physiological effects of oral contraceptive use. Is it also possible that female oral contraceptive use is not only increasing mate selecting of beta males instead of masculine males but also contributing to a reduction of breeding by more aggressive females that result in reproduction? in other words, is it possible that the more sexually aggressive (not necessarily dominate) females are reproducing less? If so, then the species is being dumbed down and weakened by excluding more vivacious and hardy individuals of both genders from the reproduction process. Also what may be the long term effects on the human genome? How is the pill affecting or altering each individual women’s DNA during the all cycles she breeds without getting pregnant…and as those years have increased in number to and beyond the natural maximum?

  2. Woah it’s like coming back from college and finding your parents turned your bedroom into a wine cellar.

    Nice theme Rollo! It’s a lot less, uh, early aughts.

  3. “It’s an interesting aside to consider that until George Bush senior was in office, all prior Presidents had sons.”

    Wilson, Truman, and Johnson only had daughters.

  4. Still digesting, but two things.

    First, leave aside Vasalgel and we’re already beginning to abandon HBC. Look at that last graph. See the dip in the blue line near the end? That’s some combination of lower levels of sexual activity in younger people, and copper IUD’s. They don’t fuck up your hormones, last ten years, and you don’t need to take a pill each day. I got my last FWB to swap out the HBC for one.

    Second, regarding child gender preferences – this is likely not a new thought, but I think that it’s a bit clear in the OP what the overall dynamic here is. There are extraneous factors that can be involved (like the example of impoverished Kenyans that can ‘sell’ their daughters) but the biologically-immutable, always-relevant one is that you have sons when you’re at the top or bottom of the barrel and daughters when you’re somewhere in between. Sons are high risk/reward so you have them when victory is assured or when straits are so dire a big ‘win’ is your only hope. By contrast, daughters are the safe bet one takes when things are going well enough that you don’t want to rock the boat too much, but describing the circumstance as ‘assured victory’ seems a bit too optimistic. This applies both for individuals/small groups (like royalty, whose sons were guaranteed the high value needed to reproduce) or nations at large.

  5. “If there’s one Google search term that’s become synonymous with The Rational Male it’s the word ‘Hypergamy’.”

    That’s how I found The Rational Male lol.

    I saw “hypergamy” being thrown around on PUA boards and something called the “Red Pill”. Much to the resistance of local PUA’s, by the way, who deemed it all as bitter woman hating basement dwellers. The mere word hypergamy sounded stupid to me but instead of joining the hooting I looked it up. And experienced my second big revelation after discovering PUA. Everything PUA hadn’t covered suddenly made sense. War Brides. The Burden of Performance. Why female family members will sometimes shittest you. All the good men around me I saw who sacrificed their whole lifes as dutiful providers being spit on by the women they served and being spit out by the system. Why and that men are the true romantics. Alpha Fucks, Beta Bucks. Hypergamy doesn’t care. Schedules of mating. Everything. Like with PUA years before I read it all in one manic period and am eternally grateful for discovering it.

    For me, there never was any anger phase or something. Whatever blue pill illusions I had were little enough. Sure in the back of my head I believed there might be some female snowflake NAWALT unicorn soulmate for me out there somewhere. But I sure as shit never experienced or saw any of that with my own eyes. What I saw was that I got dumped, flaked, cheated on burned and manipulated like any other guy. And I myself cheated on, rejected, burned and dumped women like any other guy.

    So I feel that while PUA gave me access to attraction, sex and the whole Alpha-Fucks-side of intersexual dynamics, the Red Pill gave me broader understanding and connected all the dots that PUA didn’t cover.

    I look back at my life before I discovered PUA and the Red Pill and it seems like living in another persons nightmare. Only fog, confusion and pain.

    So, end of rant, thank you for changing my life, Rollo. It was only for the better.

  6. Vasalgel or other male-controlled BC is just a totem for the reset which will slowly but, I think, surely happen as the current generation becomes more and more dissatisfied with the disconnect between Strong Independent Woman (TM) and helpless victim of hetero men, and the retreat of beaten and feminized men from the SMP in reaction to the “rape culture” culture on campuses and the cultural disdain heaped on them now. Your “sweet nice girls” won’t like the disappearance of provider men in general, or simply college men, into virtual universes and subsistence living, who have had it beaten into them that any approach is assault and therefore are unavailable for mating, let alone parenting. Those not fortunate enough to be in the select UMC gradient or HB enough for the athlete class will eventually start responding to those few men who have even rudimentary Game. Over time (not right away) those men will become the Most Interesting Men, the culturally desirable, albeit framed in a FI context, but it will still be a cultural reset from the current “boys are stupid”. As that reset progresses, it may make more men willing to try masculinity again without being labeled “toxic” for doing so – at least by the vast majority of straight women, who won’t be in tune with academic doubleplusgoodthink. And that, as was discussed in the last two threads, will be the means by which you start manifesting a “correction”, not by lecturing or shaming, but by example.

  7. Men conforming their sexual strategy to acquire HBC influenced mates by becoming more effeminate to appeal to them, because the FI propaganda suggested this was the way to do so. Poor bastards only then later learn in the long-term such feminization is a friend zone maker and desire killer. A sad tragedy.

  8. I’ve heard it pronounced as: “HYPER-gammy” but it seems that “Hy-PURguh-Mee” is more phonetically correct.

    Monogamy NOT Mono-gammy
    Pol-ig-uh-mee NOT POLY-gammy

    Thoughts?

  9. This article was interesting (pdf warning):

    https://goo.gl/MhZ0Qh

    The whole thing is suggestive but complicated. It looks like women on the pill are more desirous of high T faces for long term relationships. So it is possible, that they get married to some dude with high T then want someone with low T after they go off the pill. (the opposite of the story everybody tells)

  10. Yeah, I’m an ex-nice guy too, for sure, Harold. If one lets himself wallow in it, the Red Pill is an epic mindfuck. Like I can see so clearly how I valued MYSELF by being a good provider. I also bought into a calculus that I assumed included a payoff to me in the form of some level of respect and gratitude – or at least not outright loathing. When I realized that was a faulty belief on my part, and that I was utterly disposable to women I’d provided for over decades, well, yeah, I simply could not process it at first. The Red Pill helped me see it, but then the rage went to 11. Murderous. Suicidal.

    I saw a life misspent, and an endless series of miscalculations. I’m glad I’m not angry or sad about that shit anymore. Fuck looking back, there’s nothing there anyway, it’s all an illusion. If you consider it carefully you’ll see that the past isn’t even real at all.

  11. “I used to be the nice, beta provider type. And in every case, the same thing happened. Essentially I was used for what I could provide. Money, favors, a car to give rides. But not once did a girl ever fall in love with me because of the nice things I did for her. Yet at the same time, I see women professing their love for men who beat them.”

    One of the comments that will be highlighted in the next printed volume of The Rational Male so that my son will be sure to see it in a few years, when he prepares to leave his mother’s house. (he’s not yet a teenager)

  12. Rollo
    For five generations now, feminized men progressively ‘get woke’ to the fact that what they’ve been taught is expected of them in order to be attractive to women are the Beta Phase attributes inspired largely by women’s hormonal imbalances.

    Shouldn’t that be five decades? HBC is not 100 years old.

  13. I’d like to encourage men who still want a good wife to look East. As in, Russia, Ukraine and other former USSR counties. I cannot begin to tell you how encouraged and revitalized I am by this woman I met – and by most of the women I met and interacted with before I found “the One.” The biggest difference between these women and western women are three things: 1) They have a strong desire to find “their Right Man”. Educated, smart, attractive women with careers find life is not meaningful without husband and family. 2) What they require from a man is reliability, respectfulness and willingness to provide for a family. They want to be treated respectfully and well, but they definitely want to be treated like a woman. 3) They have no ambivalence whatsoever about being appealing to their man. They celebrate this about themselves, their femininity and sex appeal.
    These women are genuine, direct, and have no time for games and are generally not interested (but are quite aware of) western feminism. Interestingly, during Soviet times women were “emancipated” from the homes and out into the factory and collectives, and the government propaganda machine even downplayed and tried to discourage marriage. So these women really know what all this means, and since the collapse of the USSR, (which has been a mixed bag for them in many ways) they have enthusiastically embraced traditional gender and marriage relationships. In fact, my woman very explicitly told me early on that she had no interest in an egalitarian relationship – and she has been very clear about what she wants and expects from me, and I couldn’t be more delighted.
    (I’ve spent a week with her in person, talk on Skype a couple times a day, am meeting her in Italy in 7 weeks, after which she comes back here, hopefully for good. Oh, and she’s gorgeous and awesome in a million different ways. Wish me luck…. )

  14. getting in touch with a feminine side was a strategy that’s been employed by all groups looking to have social control over another. It’s just been usually done based on race or some other social striation. Different tribe. Different country. Plenty of historical examples of one group either in charge or seeking to be in charge of another, classifying the would be controlled group as lacking intelligence but possessing a useful strength or endurance for physical labor. Or servitude.
    You’re inherently flawed. You should strive to be like us. You can never be like us, but you should strive for that.
    That sets the tone for hard manual labor, high risk jobs. And the ones that get the routine right are good for service type jobs
    It’s essentially the same with what women are trying with the “getting in touch..” garbage. The inherent flaw is lacking the feminine. Convince you to seek it out to make you more agreeable and useful for service. And keep the man up for all the risky, heavy lifting, and unpleasant things when convenient.
    The need for an ox and a butler.

  15. @Mitch I would like to think it was that easy to find a traditionally feminine woman, who has values many of us find attractive, and bring her back home, with little probability she will change. Honestly, it’s a hell of a lot more complicated in my opinion. The cultural norms of the Ukraine, and/or Russia, don’t reflect the those of the U.S., UK, etc. Could she retain the same qualities living in the West? It’s possible, but seems unlikely. Maybe if she doesn’t use social media, or interact with our “strong n’ independent” women? Even in tight knit communities that have developed here (U.S.), that are made up of people from much more traditional cultures, they are heavily influenced. I’m friends with quite a few Filipinos. Plenty of cheaters, and women that have adopted the bitchy attitude so common now. Not a single unicorn to be found.
    Took a trip recently to France, and Italy for some R&R. I talked to/interacted with a variety of women, mostly French. Not surprisingly,overall, they make American women look like shit. The level of femininity, and physical appearance of the average French woman is far above the average American woman. The vast majority of them dress to show off their curves, and they expect to be looked at by old and young men alike. It’s tempting to think one could be brought back to the U.S., and retain all the attractive qualities they seem to effortlessly exude. Is that realistic though? Probably not.
    The least feminine, loudest, “it’s all about me” on their eat/ pray/ love vacation types? You are correct, women from the U.S., and UK.

  16. (I’ve spent a week with her in person, talk on Skype a couple times a day, am meeting her in Italy in 7 weeks, after which she comes back here, hopefully for good. Oh, and she’s gorgeous and awesome in a million different ways. Wish me luck…. )

    Be careful.

    Women are women are women. The basic underlying nature is the same, the way it expresses can be culturally conditioned based on environment. When you shift that environment from a culture that is fairly intolerant of female shenanigans, like Russia or Ukraine, to one that is indulgent of them, like the US, behaviors can emerge that would not have emerged in Russia or Ukraine due to the new and different, and more permissive, cultural environment. This does not happen in all cases, but it does happen in quite a few of them — be very careful about that. I’ve witnessed personally quite a few cases of this happening, including with women who have been imported to a Western country from the former Soviet Union, unfortunately.

  17. Not surprisingly,overall, they make American women look like shit. The level of femininity, and physical appearance of the average French woman is far above the average American woman. The vast majority of them dress to show off their curves, and they expect to be looked at by old and young men alike. It’s tempting to think one could be brought back to the U.S., and retain all the attractive qualities they seem to effortlessly exude. Is that realistic though? Probably not.

    That actually works a bit better, in my observed experience, because women from France or Italy who are imported to the US or UK nevertheless tend to retain this external femininity because, among other things, it’s a critical element of their own self-esteem. I have seen in many cases how they see themselves as “better than” their American or Brit counterparts precisely because of this. This does not, however, mean they are not thoroughly feminist — it just means that feminism in Italy and France didn’t involve encouraging women to be physically unfeminine — women there are strong independent women who nevertheless like to be sexy and feminine. So if you import them to the US they will still be that, and will see themselves as superior competitors to the local women who are less sexy and feminine, but they don’t seek to abandon their comparative advantage in that area — at least in my observed experience that is pretty rare.

    They’re still feminist, though, to a much greater degree than the women in Moscow and Kiev are, because of the fact that French culture, even if it places an emphasis on female sexiness and physical femininity of presentation, is still thoroughly feminist. A woman from Moscow doesn’t come from that culture, and hasn’t found a way — the French way, say — be be a strong, empowered, independent woman yet feminine and sexy, because the culture there isn’t feminist like the culture in France is. Of course, if you import a French wife, you’re importing a woman who is a strong, independent feminist type woman, most of the time, but she’s also one who values physical/presentational femininity and sexiness due to her culture — so you’re not expecting her not to have feminist values, it’s just feminist values with a sexy face. The woman from Russia, on the other hand, is hoped to not have feminist values, and that’s where the problem lies, because of the similar underlying nature, and the likelihood of that being acted out upon once the cultural context changes.

  18. Novaseeker and Edelweiss…you’re right that women are women, and I have certainly observed that in my woman. But as far as her retaining her values…I guess I take some comfort in the fact that she’s older, as am I. I’m 49 and she’s 44. I think people are a lot less flexible in that regard as they get older. If you’re going after a woman in her 20’s maybe you have more to worry about. Still, there’s definitely a large pool of attractive, available and traditionally-minded women in the East. Is it easy to snag one and bring her over? Definitely not for a good one. I have never worked harder or spent more money to win a woman over than this one. But I’ve only done so because I believe she’s worth it, and honestly, I’ve enjoyed every minute of it. I believe it will pan out, and I hope it does, and i’ll keep you posted on how it goes. I don’t mind adding that Rollo’s posts about hypergamy, and general Red Pill awareness, are part of my consciousness about interacting with these women, and I’m grateful for that in that it helps me to stay realistic. That said, the fact is that a decent, reliable man is in very high demand in those countries due to a lot of reasons, such as excessive alcohol consumption, promiscuity and just general abuse of women. Men get away with this because they know they are in high demand there…because the ratio of males to females is about 85:100. Many of these women are not willing to settle for an alcoholic, abusive, unreliable husband, and so they seek abroad.
    If you have a decent job, and you’re a decent guy who presents himself reasonably well, and you’re between the ages of 30-45, you are literally a godsend and you can score an extremely beautiful, educated, high value woman. It’s true that reality sets in after marriage and after the puppy love wears off, but the fact that these women so highly value marriage and family I think is not so easily uprooted once they come to the west. The younger they are, the more likely that they will shift, but I think it’s doubtful they would shift all that much. If you’re the sort of person that is flexible and can adapt to cross-cultural differences, I would highly recommend looking for a wife there.

  19. @Novaseeker: you’re talking about French and Italian women….these are Western women, immersed in western history and values, which includes feminism. Sexy as they may be, still a totally different mentality to women from former USSR countries. These women are certainly aware of western feminist trends, but by and large they reject this ideology. I would speculate that this is largely due to the fact that their “emancipation” from men was very much encouraged by the Soviet state, and since the collapse of that state, they have been excited to revert to traditional slavic values. I speculate as to why, but there’s no doubt that western feminist epistemology has no traction there, and that’s a very good thing.

  20. Mitch —

    Yeah, I’ve traveled to Russia quite a bit on business over the past 20 years and also I’m actually Russian Orthodox (since 2000) and have come across and observed a LOT of Russian and Ukranian women who have either been imported into or have emigrated to the US. It’s not a silver bullet (and, remember, these are the women who are the more religious ones by self-selection) by any means. I’m not saying it isn’t a worthwhile risk, but I am saying that I have personally seen women from this background become gradually more Western in attitude over the course of time living here.

    Yes, it’s different from importing a wife from France or Italy, I agree. But it also isn’t bullet-proof, either.

  21. The new theme is better. Good choice.

    Just an off-topic observation: John Derbyshire, of all people, proves again that blue pill conditioning indeed runs deep:

    For example, human beings on average now are more attractive than they were fifty years ago. Take it from me, I was there. Gym rats and exercise buffs were a small minority of males and a vanishingly small minority of females back in the early 1960s. Working-class English people took a bath once a week. The diet was loaded with starch. Halitosis was rampant, even among the small demographic that did not smoke two packs of cigarettes a day. No-one had heard of dental floss or Brazilian wax.

    Yet we thought about sex constantly and did it at every opportunity. The whole atmosphere was electric with sex! — not just for us youngsters, everyone was at it. It was like it had just been discovered. “Sexual intercourse began / In nineteen sixty-three,” the poet Philip Larkin famously wrote, and that was really what it seemed like.

    And now here is this new breed of humans, fifty-three years later, healthy and handsome, perfect dentition, smooth depilated bodies all fragrant and toned, and they can’t be bothered. It’s strange.

    http://www.johnderbyshire.com/Opinions/RadioDerb/2016-08-19.html#08

    Derbyshire is normally a realist and very red pill, but he’s pretty much off the mark here. It’s a simple case of projection, I think. He knows women can increase their desirability by improving their hygiene and appearance, and assumes it’s the same with men. It’s nonsense. You don’t lose the betaness that way.

  22. Mitch, Mitch, Mitch, Mitch, Mitch – Having dated several Russian and other former Soviet Republic types, I want to grab you and shake you!

    – What you describe is the quintessence of beta selection. You are operating purely as a provider/protector for her. Do you get that? If you don’t, please do.

    – Of course she’s all feminine and obedient and docile and sexy and sweet now. She’s seducing you. She’s running her game on you. But remember this – inside, she hates the Beta. She resents the fact that she has to fuck you. And the moment she doesn’t need to be all that to get what she wants, she will stop. And she will begin to hate you. I guaranFUCKINGtee it. I’ve known several Russian and Ukranian girls who’ve scraped off guys who brought them here, guys just like you. These women felt no moral compunction about shifting gears and moving on to a single life or to other guys once they were safely legal here in the U.S., no problem. It’s a standard, well known move for a young woman in Russia or other eastern Euro nations.

    It’s also true the Russian women can seem more traditional on the surface, but in fact they have lived in a society where women have loathed dependence on men for generations. In some ways, it’s a very “equalist” mindset that’s even more deep rooted than what occurs in the U.S. as it was intentionally inculcated in Soviet institutions and society. Communism enforced gender equality and this notion is baked into many Russian/Eastern Euro women.

    – She’s the prize in this setup, clearly, not you. It’s very hard for you to build and maintain actual dominance in this setup. Sure, you have materialistic power, but emotionally and socially? She’s the one who’s being pursued and flown around and given the equivalent of a winning lotto ticket – not you. And at 44, she’s not much of a prize…I’m not talking looks, I’m talking the inevitable wreck a 44yo single woman has to be. Just the number of cocks she’s had to have had has ruined her for marriage, forget all the socialization.

    – Just imagine you put the same money and effort into game and perhaps self-improvement? Forget just getting laid or meeting women, you would discover how to be desired for who you are, not for your ability to provide. You could learn how to “be the prize”, and once that mindshift happens, what you are doing would look ludicrous to you too.

    Either be the prize or eat crumbs. There are no short cuts. And if you are going to pay, you could take the tens of thousands you are shelling out and get a young, hot, tight 23yo Sugar Baby who will be your personal pornstar on-demand. I mean, if you are going to pay for a whore, you might as well get the fantasy, right?

    @Rollo – New theme is, well, a new theme…

  23. Re: Mitch – Can you guys see how Mitch is buying the Beta fantasy? So desperate is the Beta to “win” by being a good guy, he’ll ignore he’s preying on a desperate women who will of course use sex and her wiles to win him over to create the illusion of a “marriage” and being a “couple”. Underneath this must be a certainty that he can’t get a suitable women any other way. The baked in low self-esteem reeks, yet he misses it all in his mad drive “win” via Betahood.

    It’s the ultimate White Knight trip. I mean, he’s rescuing this damsel in distress from a life of deprivation and hopelessness, swooping in, jetting her around the world. I’m sure his Beta, BP, Femcentric identity takes great pleasure and even pride in living out this role.

    It’s understandable, as the Beta’s strategy is no longer viable for most men in the West. What I can’t get is coming to a Red Pill site and not getting how this will be seen.

    To me? Looks like a man about to drive headlong into a brick wall at very high speed…And at 49, he can’t afford that kind of mistake.

  24. Mitch, what do you actually know about the social reality in the former Soviet bloc? Because I can certainly tell you that Western cultural hegemony prevails even in these countries. It’s true that politicans and churches pay lots of lip service to traditionalist values, and anti-feminism has somewhat more traction in mainstream media. But these are mostly just words. The fact is that public discourse and media is predominantly feminist and modernist, or at least heavily gynocentric. The same social and cultural trends assert themselves as in the West: low birthrates, delayed marriage, delayed childbirth, weakening monogamy, atomization, the cult of female independence, low male productivity and so on.

  25. It’s also true the Russian women can seem more traditional on the surface, but in fact they have lived in a society where women have loathed dependence on men for generations. In some ways, it’s a very “equalist” mindset that’s even more deep rooted than what occurs in the U.S. as it was intentionally inculcated in Soviet institutions and society. Communism enforced gender equality and this notion is baked into many Russian/Eastern Euro women.

    There’s one somewhat crucial difference though. Chivalry and the Protestant notion of female moral superiority have no cultural roots in Eastern Europe, as opposed to the West. This means there’s markedly less social and cultural pressure on men to white-knight, to coddle women in various ways, to shield them from any perceived harm. Gynocentrism is still present, of course, because it’s present in every society.

  26. That said, the fact is that a decent, reliable man is in very high demand in those countries due to a lot of reasons, such as excessive alcohol consumption, promiscuity and just general abuse of women. Men get away with this because they know they are in high demand there…because the ratio of males to females is about 85:100. Many of these women are not willing to settle for an alcoholic, abusive, unreliable husband, and so they seek abroad.

    The effect of lopsided sex ratios tends to get rather overrated, in my view. We’ve discussed this here, and also on Just Four Guys, when that site was still up. Hypergamy always asserts itself. Research shows (I can’t be bothered to dig up links) that not even a lopsided sex ratio in favor of men results in more sexual and mating opportunities for betas. In fact, the opposite happens. When women perceive that there’s a man shortage, they just assume that a growing segment of men will opportunistically pursue them for casual sex, and they respond by filtering alphas even harder, basically looking for the bad boy with a heart of gold.

  27. @Hollen – Ya, very true. But it’s also true that Russia is the former land of Engels and Marx, and that feminism was overtly folded into all Soviet institutions. The family itself was seen as “anti-revolutionary”, and women were to be liberated so they could become slaves to the state as well…

    What is true is that Russian women, like most Euro women, embrace feminine sexuality but in a way it’s just more overt hypergamy as they openly worship the alpha dog in that society. In Russia, Putin can work his way through young women and models etc., publicly, with no shame and in fact it’s seen as an asset for him. But Betas? They fucking hate Betas openly.

    What’s even odder about Mitch is he’s picked a woman who’s 44, it’s like he’s lowered his sights so much that he misses reality. A 44yo single woman has close to ZERO chance of being a stable, good partner. If she was 25 at least he could dominate her intellectually and socially.

    He even talks about “the one”.

    @ Mitch – First rule of The Red Pill? There is no “the one”. That is a romantic, feminist imperative serving trope imposed on Blue Pill men to encourage them to put the goddamn bit into their mouths. In actuality, men trade provision and protection for monogamy from women, but have no requirement to give monogamy in addition to provision and protection in return.

    Think I’m being harsh? Think this woman is really all about you and attracted to you and see’s you as the prize – without all your cash and prizes? Do this in Italy. Confess to her that there is one fly in the ointment. Tell her that you love having sex with young women but don’t want to be a cheater. Tell her that the thing which would make this awesome for you is if she would cooperate in picking up younger women for threesomes. See what she says, see how she reacts.

    If you are the prize, if what you want is actually important, and she really cares for you – not for what you can do for her – she’ll at least think about it, right? Lol…

    The thought of telling her this terrifies you, yes? Of course it does. You don’t want to screw up the Beta fantasy you’re purchasing…

    CANCEL THE TRIP. BLOCK HER FROM ALL YOUR MESSENGERS ETC. FOCUS ON GAME AND SELF IMPROVEMENT AND INTERNALIZING RED PILL TRUTHS. NOW. WHAT YOU ARE DOING COULD RUIN THE REST OF YOUR FUCKING LIFE.

  28. Rollo, there’s something that’s bugging me:

    If most fertile women are currently (and have been for the past 50 years) on a birth control pill that favors the Beta Bucks side of their strategy… how come Alphas still consistently get laid more already. The very fact that all red pill aware men are actively trying to up their alpha traits because they are demonstrably already successful seems to put a lie as to the idea that the pill effectively numbs women’s desire for alpha traits. Or, if women are still attracted to alpha despite their hormonal profile due to the pill, this puts the lie that women have different alpha/beta phases through their cycle…

    ???

  29. Great vid by Black Pigeon, showing that women in the West pay no taxes, on average, net of what they take out of the system. Only men are net contributors to govt, meaning that they put in more than they get out.

    Watch and weep. Men are such suckers. We paid for the rope with which they hung us…

  30. @ Scribb,

    Your analysis of what Mitch said in his posts is strait dope. Props to you for that – nice job.

    @ Mitch,

    Listen to Scribb for he is wise!

  31. @ Scribb,

    “Watch and weep. Men are such suckers. We paid for the rope with which they hung us…”

    There’s the old saying that you can’t cheat an honest man. If he’s honest with others but not with himself then you most certainly can.

  32. I’m not a Trump fan and never have been, but that audio leak of him looks to be carefully timed. I highly suspect that the powers that be were sitting on this little grenade and waiting for the opportune time to release it. Hillary will be our next POTUS. That’s some political hardball right there……………… He. Is. Done.

  33. Mitch, this is what you look like:

    Slap yourself silly, go read The Best of Year One and wake the fuck up.

    Höllenhund, I think you’re missing the mark on Derbyshire. What he is observing are The Beautiful Ones. They spend all their time making themselves attractive, but withdraw from actual attracting.

    They appear in times of imminent social collapse.

  34. @ NewbieOnPoint,

    I read your link and…well…Trump supporters are gonna need a whole lot of hopium:

  35. @ Mitch
    Scribblerg has taken you to school today I agree with everything he said about your situation, I actually cringed reading your post and justifications, it just read like a Beta fantasy wet dream and that is exactly what it is.

    I’m 48 and recently returned from a trip to Italy to see my son, unfortunately he broke his foot a few days before my arrival and so i took a friend instead.

    I met a 44 year old ex fitness model/ beauty pageant winner on the beach, she proceeded to try to seduce me with levels of femeninity and sexiness that you just don’t find here in the UK.

    Her “girl game” was top notch, as I work freelance and had no work booked, I extended my trip by a week so we had 12 days together in total.
    Compared to uk women was a breath of fresh air and looked 10 years younger what with the Mediterranean diet and plenty of excercise.
    After a week she was introducing me to her friends as her “fiancé ” ( this is somewhat normal in Italy for anything more serious than a short fling) .
    She said “she had lost her head over me” and was charming sensual and femenine in ways UK women don’t know how to be.

    The POINT is this ; did I lose my head over her? Am I trying to bring her to the uk?

    No fucking way man! As much as I enjoyed our little romance I have read and absorbed red pill philosophy, it’s part of who I am now!

    Even 4 years ago I would probably have contemplated such silliness, but now I didn’t even consider it! I had friends salivating over the pictures I put on Facebook telling me how lucky I was and that I was “punching above my weight”.
    Meanwhile I let her put on her little show and enjoyed it for what it was ” a bit of entertainment from a sexy femenine woman, nothing more.” I am the PRIZE she is 44, I’m 48 why would I want to take on a woman who is going to hit the menopause in the near future? No matter how good she looks Now, that would not be a good deal for me.

    I didn’t even consider it not for a second, I saw it for the bad deal it would be and you should do the same, otherwise in the future she will fuck you over so hard even your children will feel it.

    She still contacts me constantly but has somewhat given up hope, I have told her next time I’m in Italy to see my boy I will stay an extra couple of days and see her, she’s not happy but what do I care?
    I have told her that I don’t expect her to wait for me or be celibate as I explained that as a man I have needs and I will not be doing either of these things, but that if she is “free” next time in Italy I will happily spend time with her.

    Guess who’s Frame we are working under here? And guess who’s frame you are operating under with your Russian unicorn?

    And why? Because I am her prize, and she is your prize!

    She may not “wait for me” or be “loyal” as I’ve told her I won’t be those things but I can almost guarantee that when I call her to say I’m coming to Italy she will be “free” no matter what her dating status as she is in no doubt that she is dealing with a MAN and not a beta pussy.

    Mitch you need to think very carefully about your next move, I would suggest you chalk this up as a loss, educate yourself via Rollos fine essays and stop being a beta bitch.

    But I bet you won’t!

  36. Anti-Trump fag pols “I have daughters/grand daughters…”

    Yet have you EVER heard anyone say “I have sons/grand sons…”
    Double f@kn standards.

  37. “Trump supporters are gonna need a whole lot of hopium”

    Yes. I’ve been following Scott Adams’ blog with great interest in the past few months, but I really don’t see the “persuasive genius” angle he has been pulling with Trump.
    Which is odd, because I think that Scott Adams himself is a genius at persuasion.
    Not that I need persuading to vote for Trump. That’s the best possible option available now and I’m hoping Assange throws in some catastrophic October surprise.
    And I don’t even like Assange…I detest him, frankly.
    It’s a bit like when the Soviets and Allies teamed up to defeat the Axis powers (or the Nazis and the Soviets, which happened first…or, NATO and the Warsaw pact countries towards the end of the Iran/Iraq war)…
    because it was the most urgent and important matter going. Even though they knew they would be at odds again as soon as the war was over.

  38. I’ve found that one of the best persuasion tools (I’ve never used it personally, but I’ve seen it in action) is the “bad advocate” approach.
    I wish I could go back in time and join Hillary’s campaign as a mole.

  39. Honestly I think Trump has been a red herring since the start of this. He’s intended to be the loser by the people who make these decisions. I tweeted last year that this election will be decided by a Red Pill paradigm and I’ve been proven right thus far.

    Every piece of direct mail I’ve received from the Hillary campaign has been one of poor girls being bullied and fat shamed by guys who are the same as Trump. It’s all body image outrage and it fits the Feminine Imperative narrative. Trump is the big misogynist asshole ‘Bro’ that women love to hate. He plays the role only too well.

    When Trump loses as he’s intended to you will see the narrative shift to one about how this was a victory for women and feminine-identifying men; women stood up to the bully and now he’s gone with his tail between his leg. Unconventional women will triumph over the conventional male. You’ll find this story arch throughout popular media today, it’s what we’ve come to expect will be the resolution of such a story.

    A lot of guys in the ‘sphere like to rationalize Trump’s blind posturing to be some calculated political maneuvering of a great machiavellian mind. He’s not, and his apologizing for his being a man with a sex drive and having the attitude of a guy who’s always been more or less anti-fragile is a glaring error that, again, plays perfectly into the ‘good guys’ (women) win / ‘bad guys’ (misogynists) lose narrative that’s defined this election since before it got started.

  40. When Trump loses as he’s intended to you will see the narrative shift to one about how this was a victory for women and feminine-identifying men; women stood up to the bully and now he’s gone with his tail between his leg. Unconventional women will triumph over the conventional male.

    Yes, this is exactly right. It will be seen as the death blow to the “old masculinity”, and the decisive victory of the feminine, in males and females alike.

  41. Well, I’m sure that’s true but now that the cat has been let out of the bag (with the DNC leak) we know we don’t exactly live in a Representative Republic. The little gnome behind the curtain was exposed. So don’t vote third party in protest or something, and don’t sit out this election. Because either one of those actions are the equivalent of a vote for Hillary.
    I’m not going quietly into the night pretending I’m doing something significant by just watching and commenting on the show.
    I’m counting on the angry but silent people making a difference in this election.

  42. Lol. Thinking that this election matters is pretty funny. The entire western financial system is coming apart at the seams and when it blows, our politics will change for realz. The leading edge of the predictable social unrest which presages social upheaval is already upon us.

    You dingbats out there who think supporting Alex Jones and race realism and the many creepy fucks on the alt right wouldn’t have political consequences are being shown just what naifs you are. Or how about supporting a candidate for POTUS who’s never run for public office and never faced a real vetting. Of course there is lots of dirt on Trump and it will continue to flow. This was and is predictable. He’s a fucking political amateur and will be pounded into ground up shit over the next month.

    You guys ever want start taking politics seriously, let me know. But this bullshit? Losing to Hillary Clinton – the most unlikable candidate to run for POTUS ever – cuz you backed an amateur? And of course many of you Christians are to blame as well, favoring reactionary social politics and demanding only a Christian fundo candidate. This ensured the rise of Cruz who’s public persona makes Nixon seems likable, and who had zero chance of winning the primary or the general election.

    So here we are, own it, you fucking rubes.

  43. @YC:

    A feminist protest, although I have made an error. The group originates in the Ukraine, but that particular march took place in Paris and at least some of the women are French supporters.

    This one is from Kiev:

  44. @kfg

    “The Beautiful Ones. They appear in times of immanent social collapse.”

    Holy shit what the hell is that? Like what happened in Brazil? Women work even harder to try to attract the few guys left with anything to offer them?

  45. One of the things I think that is stoking the hypergamy bubble is the stagnation of the dollar and wages. In short, the destruction of the middle class is turning former middle class women into whores. If the only way to secure the lifestyle that they have been accustomed to is by “trading up” in whatever way they can they will. Why “settle” for a demotion with their MMV equivalents?

    I better be careful or I’ll start talking about butthexor and Bernankification.

  46. @Novaseeker

    “Yes, this is exactly right. It will be seen as the death blow to the “old masculinity”, and the decisive victory of the feminine, in males and females alike.”

    How can companies ideologically filter male applicants?

  47. @YC – No it’s about the breakdown of trust and cohesion in society due the social tension arising from social upheaval. Example: Crowds for Oktoberfest are down 50%. It’s not just about immigration, although that’s a big part of it. It’s also about how divided we’ve become and that trend is only increasing. Saddest? We’ve already lost the political battle as the left ran circles around the right for 100 years and now you guys are like, hey how did that happen? And ‘stop talking about Marxism Scribb’. We already lost all the major battles to preserve our nation and society, while the right held their coats. The only way to stop the left is via force. The only thing that will stop our decline is revolution. But even then, most of the sheeple will want a big Nanny state to step in then. The classically liberal Westbis over, the left destroyed it.

    Now, the left is merely consolidating their social, political, institutional and economic gains. Yet people here think an election will change things, lmfao. It’s just too rich. Some times smart guys can be so dumb.

  48. Are they gonna legislate pro-social/pro-female compliance once they throw out our constitution?

  49. .
    @scrib nailed it.
    @Mitch, you have sunk a lot of time and money into her and are likely ego-invested so you likely do not want to hear what scrib said. If you can push through that, talk it over with us, it could end up saving you from much misery.

    @colbert ” that audio leak of him looks to be carefully timed.”
    @anon “I’m hoping Assange throws in some catastrophic October surprise.”

    Wikileaks did release something yesterday, and there was the guccifer “leak” a few days before. Nothing amazing, but mainstream media could have spun it if they wanted to. Those leaks plus second debate coming up makes perfect timing to release that cringefest by Trump. I am sure many elite entertainment insiders have said worse, but its their town, their footage, and they are not running for president.

    @Rollo
    “I don’t think it is too far a stretch to presume that the social engineering that’s led to the feminization of men today began around the time unilaterally female-controlled birth control became ubiquitous”

    Your article was great, the only thing I would question is when the people that make these decisions got started. I think they got started a lot earlier than the pill, but they sure doubled down when it came along.

    “[Trump]’s intended to be the loser by the people who make these decisions.” “you will see the narrative shift to one about how this was a victory for women and feminine-identifying men”

    So, the election is not an election, but rather a staged morality play to help push a social conditioning agenda? It makes sense, and also points out the futility of trying to “get around” women’s hypergamy in 2016. Its not really “da wimminz” making these decisions. WAKE UP GUISE, the powers that be don’t want you to have what you want. You are not “under the radar” you are being actively targeted.

  50. “Thinking that this election matters is pretty funny. “

    It does matter to a lot of people (directly).
    Unless you have a better planet to move to it should matter to you, too.
    And no, it ain’t funny.
    The whole sky is falling routine, though correct, has been done before (most everything I read about the financial crisis was covered, usually better, in Blood in the Streets by James Dale Davidson and Lord Rees-Mogg and The Next Great Reckoning, written a couple of years later by same). Well…the sky is falling and has been for three decades, yet it hasn’t hit yet and it could be a great long while. So do the smart thing today.

  51. @Scibblerg

    So let’s be “good guys” again for a while and expose their hypocrisy later. Then watch for the gremlins moving things around in the social circles.

    “But even then, most of the sheeple will want a big Nanny state to step in then” Most people are poor and have no hope of becoming rich. And the mindset that makes people fight tooth and nail for a “better job” wont help them actually knock out Chad and Stacy.

  52. @YC:

    The Beautiful Ones are men. Men who spend their time making the hair on their heads perfect, but removing the hair on their chests. Men who take time to always be impeccably and fasionably dressed, wear jewelry and even makeup, feminizing themselves for beauty’s sake, but may also go to the gym to get a masculine physique.

    In short do their damnedest to always be a perfect model of male, metrosexual attractiveness, BUT . . . who have actually withdrawn from the SMP, and perhaps wider society as a whole as well.

    Asexual, male model grass eaters.

    When this becomes a large enough group to have a noticeable affect on the general culture, it is generally a sign that the culture has passed the tipping point and is doomed.

    They were named The Beautiful Ones by John B. Calhoun who conducted the “Rat Utopia” experiment which also led to the colloquial concept of Too Many Rats in the Cage, but the phenomena was already ready well know to history, only it was simply called “decadence.”

  53. Regarding that “Miranda Sings” girl, I saw her getting picked up by mainstream media, then I saw that she had that nice guy husband and wondered how long that would last. I could have been somebody if I had posted here before it happened. Not going to make the same mistake twice.

    The new one to look at is the ex WWE entertainer turned MMA fighter CM Punk. In his (extensive) promo material, he comes across as a tough, focused, decent, blue pill guy who pedestalizes his wife. He lost his fight so badly that he is now out of the MMA unless/until he can improve which is a long shot. He needs to either get back in the WWE, become a movie star or his wife will leave him within 18 months. Its the BP talk and pedestalizing that is the killer. He seems smart and a hard worker, makes you wonder if he’d change if he had Rollo’s book.

    Maybe we should start a pool.

  54. How can companies ideologically filter male applicants?

    Easily enough.

    I was walking around a local campus recently and noticed that the campus was bedecked with flyers reading “white silence is violence!”. This is the next phase. Anything short of enthusiastic, open, loud support will be seen as a sign of obvious dissent, of obvious membership in the “deplorables”, which will lead to exclusion. Perhaps not on the way in the front door (although I think it’s easy enough to discern there), but certainly on the soon to follow escorted run out the back door.

    As bad as things have gotten, they’re about to get much, much worse, because the mask is basically going to come off. That can happen only because most men are so weak and cowed already, but those of us here know that anyway. The political system will not help you at this point — it’s way, way too far gone for that.

  55. “So, the election is not an election, but rather a staged morality play to help push a social conditioning agenda?”

    There ya go. Trump’s role, initially, was to spoil Ted Cruz, to take enough votes in the primaries to prevent his becoming the candidate. It was supposed to be a Clinton v. Bush redux, only with Bush getting the Romney treatment for an easy Clinton win.

    But then he actually started to do well and, being Trump, got the bit in his teeth.

    Now the powers that be are afraid they might actually be fighting for their very lives. This is going to be the nastiest campaign ever. No stop is going to be left unpulled to stomp Trump into a pile of political goo.

  56. @kfg “No stop is going to be left unpulled to stomp Trump into a pile of political goo.”

    Or maybe they plan to just cancel the election by starting WWIII with Russia?

  57. I’m not a fan of Trump but I do see how he plays the perfect villain for a campaign based on feminist memes. He’s the perfect vaudevillian bad guy to hate. That’s why I said he’s too perfect for the role.

  58. Re: Trump, his predicament illustrates something I’ve always said about men, even ones in power.

    Now, I’m no fan either ( after 30 years of watching this dude up close…he’s a con man ) but I’ve been watching the unease in the GOP as he garnered support and votes for the nomination. I was waiting for the ” Powers That Be ” to try and strip him of that nomination.

    But, they relented.

    And reluctantly, they slowly climbed onboard with The Donald. Lol.

    Now we have this dumb ” scandal ” concerning something Trump said, in private, over a decade ago. I mean, he’s said enough actual dumb shit while campaigning, but now his words from a decade ago are threatening him…why exactly?

    Because Women.

    As of today a gaggle of GOP’ers have called for Trump to resign and abandon his Presidential bid. The majority of those doing the calling are male. Other GOP’ers have withdrawn their support for The Donald. Again, they are mostly men.

    Think about the message being shown right before your eyes, and see it for what it is in a bigger picture.

    Women have taken to the airwaves voicing their outrage over Trump’s statements ( of a decade ago, in private ). That’s to be expected, but imo it’s the reaction of other men that is more telling.

    Immediate back turning.

    Feigned outrage in unison with women.

    I don’t think Trump is qualified to be President for a thousand reasons. I also don’t think Hillary is that much of a better bet, so much so that I’d almost rather see Trump give it a go..lol, and THAT’S saying something. But for this particular issue to gather so much steam pisses me off.

    I see no issue with what he said, in private, 10+ years ago.

    In fact, I cosign the ” grab the pussy ” sentiment. But that’s beside the point.

    A month out from the elections, The Donald may have very well sunk his own ship with his display of ignorance. It would have been better for ” The Powers That Be ” to just let it all play out.

    But no. The MSM has grabbed onto this with ” outrage “. Men in positions of power are trying to figure out what to do to not piss off teh wimminz. Pathetic.

    When all they really need do is remain quiet. Or pay a little lip service.

    And through all of this, Hillary had another dump of stolen emails/info. I’m going to have to find and read it on my own, as all media is busy crucifying The Donald for what he said about certain women, 10+ years ago, in private.

  59. @blax “Feigned outrage in unison with women.”

    Yes. Falling into the frame. Full Cuck.

    So, I guess the game answer for the long haul would be to pick a frame and hold it, even if people shit on you for doing so.

    “I’d almost rather see Trump give it a go..”

    The more you think he was never supposed to make it this far, the easier a decision it becomes.

  60. I agree that DT represents an outsider to the elites that may be uncontrollable by them. I don’t like him that much as far as experience. All the crap he says is just blow-hard BS like getting the Mexicans to pay for a border fence. The talk about women 10 years ago is just irrelevant to me. I may vote Trump as a protest vote against the elite class. He will be controlled to some extent by the Dems hating him and a large % of the Reps hating him too.

  61. Trump is the ONLY anti status quo vote.

    Every other vote (third party, or not voting at all) is an ipso facto Hillary endorsement.
    Because if the people who want to see her lose don’t vote for the only real alternative, she will win.
    Ergo the status quo will win.

  62. Rudy Guliani is standing by Donald.

    So is Chris Christie.

    Earlier tonight, a large crowd of Trump supporters all rallied in front of Trump Tower…. until is started to rain.

  63. @kfg @Yolo

    John B. Calhoun coined the term:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_sink

    His peak experiment involved a colony that grew to 2200 mice in a “mouse utopia”. After 600 days the colony was nearly extinct.

    Mapping rat / mouse models to humans is hazardous but people do it anyway. There are some parallels in behavior.

  64. YC kfg is showing you pix of Ukranian women who are part of the feminist group FEMEN,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FEMEN

    not clear who funds the group now. The core of the group is female uni students aged 18 – 20. Like that’s a surprise. Close to peak SMV.

    They all need a spanking…

  65. Novaseeker
    As bad as things have gotten, they’re about to get much, much worse, because the mask is basically going to come off.

    Years ago I remember reading Fox Butterfield’s book China, adrift in the bitter sea about some of the Cultural Revolution. One of the things that people got weary of in Mao’s China was the endless demands to denouce yet another thought criminal, to get on board yet another “campaign to rid China of the three bads”, yet another set of slogans to learn and recite.

    We may be heading in that direction, where failure to denounce will be justification for losing a job, a career, a house etc. If we get to that point, then a lot of men will have nothing left to lose.

    That will not end well.

  66. LOL @ all these politicians, cuckservatives, feminists & other lying hypocrites who are so shocked, shocked, shocked to find that Trump talked about grabbing pussy in private once 11 years ago, to a member of the Bush family.

    Shocked!

  67. Mitch

    You have only one question to pose to your foreign bride to be. “I’ve decided we will live in Russia. What do you think of that?”

    And then you will have your answer.

  68. “One of the things that people got weary of in Mao’s China was the endless demands to denouce yet another thought criminal, to get on board yet another “campaign to rid China of the three bads”, yet another set of slogans to learn and recite.”

    By its nature, The Revolution eats its own. If it ever stops, it stops being The Revolution.

  69. There is one more thing to consider in a society’s shift toward the feminine. And that is prosperity and security. Masculine traits are difficult to develop. They take the effort of both the society and of the individual. Prosperity and security reduce the need for masculine traits. With less need, society and individuals will put less effort into raising boys into masculine men.

    Great societies rise and fall like clockwork. Most last only a few generations. And most arise from people who are raised in dangerous resource scarce environments. These environments create and sustain masculine cultures. And if in addition to a masculine culture, a society is also able to develop the institutions that allow individuals to act within their own self interest while simultaneously contributing to the greater social good, a great society is possible.

    I think Harrison Ford’s character of Han Solo / Indiana Jones is a good barometer as to when the shift toward the feminine occurred in the US. The Return of the Jedi had Harrison Ford being responsible instead of the scoundrel. The second Indiana Jones had Harrison Ford being a caricature of masculinity. This change seemed to occur somewhere between the early and mid 1980s. This was also at a time near the end of the Cold War. No longer were masculine men needed for national defense. Any pending war was expected to be with nukes instead of armies.

    I’ve been watching the Rockford Files from the 1970s, which still had traditional masculine roles. I see nothing to indicate the cultural change happened this early. This could also be because it often takes a full generation to adapt to an environmental change. I think, likewise, male birth control will also take about a generation before young women’s behavior begins to change. This will be one of the most interesting social experiments I can imagine.

  70. Dictatorships almost always start off by wearing velvet gloves. It is only later in their progression that they announce their ownership of the people whom they have quietly been preparing for subjugation. At some point they make an attempt to take off the gloves and put on the brass knuckles; but only when they think the time is right. During the velvet glove phase the common man has difficulty identifying the source of the tyranny partly because he is blinded to it in the first place from all the conditioning and brainwashing he has been subjected to. If you want to identify the true source of the tyranny then simply name and identify that which is not supposed to ever be named, identified or spoken of in any negative terms. Every common man knows what the word misogyny means but few of them are familiar with the word misandry and it’s meaning. Every common man knows what the word polygamy means but few are familiar with the female sexual strategy of serial monogamy. Whatever it is that you are afraid to speak of will be the trail that leads to it’s source. Follow the bread crumbs……………..

    Hillary is an obvious misandrist and yet so few people seem able to identify this truth.

  71. @ Radium
    @ Colbert

    ” There is one more thing to consider in a society’s shift toward the feminine. And that is prosperity and security. Masculine traits are difficult to develop. They take the effort of both the society and of the individual. Prosperity and security reduce the need for masculine traits. With less need, society and individuals will put less effort into raising boys into masculine men.”

    and…

    ” During the velvet glove phase the common man has difficulty identifying the source of the tyranny partly because he is blinded to it in the first place from all the conditioning and brainwashing he has been subjected to. If you want to identify the true source of the tyranny then simply name and identify that which is not supposed to ever be named, identified or spoken of in any negative terms…”

    Good stuff gentlemen.

    I’ve brainstormed myself into near exhaustion, trying to understand why I tend to see ” things ” in an almost polar opposite as the rest of the manosphere ( Save for Rational Male. The only site worth reading for me ).

    To Radium’s point, in my case prosperity and security have always been very, very hard fought, and remain so. It will be this way until I stop breathing. Without traits that we recognize now as ” masculine “, I’d have been totally squashed and ruined 40 years ago. People in the sphere and elsewhere downplay the import or ego and pride. That mindset comes from comfort, prosperity and security. I am often completely baffled by the sentiment, but over time I am starting to understand that the ” lose your ego ” comes from a different place than I am fully familiar with.

    Usually the phrase refers to an outsized, unrealistic version of ego. So I guess I can understand it on an intellectual level. Lol.

    Same thing with pride. I constantly hear negative talk concerning pride. I don’t concur at all. But, there is such a thing as too much pride, but the entire concept can’t be thrown out the window imo.

    And the conditioning and brainwashing aspect is apparent. But if one can identify negative conditioning and brainwashing, I don’t understand why it’s so hard to shut it down. To me it’s like a guy using the ” I was drunk ” excuse for bad behavior.

    I’ve been aware of tyranny, brainwashing and negative conditioning since I can remember. Sometimes I’m like….

    This stuff is not new at all, and has always been present in some form. It’s just that now the targeting has changed.

    But in the majority of the sphere, all I can see is bitterness and misunderstanding and inaction.

    I’m rambling here, but I’m just trying to get some kind of handle on this all.

    Anyway, thanks for those thoughts guys.

  72. @Scibblerg
    “Now, the left is merely consolidating their social, political, institutional and economic gains. Yet people here think an election will change things, lmfao. It’s just too rich. Some times smart guys can be so dumb.”

    Agreed. And the left consists of republicans as well as democrats. There is virtually no difference between their policies. The democrats want to put the pedal to the metal and reach the fiscal cliff as soon as possible. The republicans want to set the cruise control. Both are going in exactly the same direction. Both agendas are unsustainable. And both achieve power by empowering strong independent women through their generous redistribution of money earned by men.

    And the bureaucracy is the government. It is the unnamed and unelected people who create fiefdoms and make social policy that drives the madness. Bureaucrats compete to develop the next VAWA because protecting women sells. It allows the feudal lords to expand their control over the government employees under their control. This means more money and influence. And the more social chaos that results, the more the feudal lords will be able to expand their fiefdoms.

    And as to why the people want this stuff? My best guess is that when people lose traditional religion, they gravitate toward finding meaning in social causes. Without a God to impose Cosmic Justice, people want the government to impose social justice. Social justice is impossible. It can only lead to social injustice, which, of course, requires more social justice to correct along with more bureaucratic feudal lords to oversee.

    Large numbers of people looked to Trump as the outsider who could control the bureaucratic feudal lords. Instead, the social justice machinery that the bureaucratic feudal lords, academics, and the media control will destroy him. Thomas Sowell recently wrote a column about the “Academic Curtain”. You can say the same about the media. These are the high priests and priestesses of social justice. Regardless of what they thought before entering the government, media, or academia, they now make their living evangelizing social justice. They are about a likely to be converted to reason as a jihadist.

  73. Most women I know say Trumps sexual comments made over 10 years ago are meaningless, that women in fact say similar things in the company of other women in private where they do not believe their comments will ever become public. Even the few hard core feminist women I’ve discussed this with admit his comments are really nothing more than typical locker room talk we all engage in with varying style. It is harmeless. Hillary Clintons laughing and bragging about how she essentially got a child rapist off with the 12 year old girls blood found in the rapists underware as proven by DNA analysis is certainly not harmless. Neither is her threats to Bill Clintons rape victims. Trumps juvenile locker room talk is not going to change the election results much. White knight sissy boys like Paul Ryan are only playing into the liberal media feminist hand as they always have. Nothing is new.

    Trumps campaign as well as Trump himself have more tha ever before effectively illustrated that the media is very biased in favor of a liberal feminist imperative. This has long been at least subconsciously known and widely suspected. The average person now trusts the media less than ever before. The election could still go either way. There are a lot of men out there of all races who have had enough of the feminist bullshit and plenty of women who want to hold onto their men with whatever amount of masculinity is left to hold on to.

    If Clinton gets elected, she may not be capable of serving out her term. She is being kept out of the media spot light and off the campaign trail for a reason. There is a reason she has not held nearly as many rallies or media covered events as typical. She has a hard time climbing the steps to board a plane. This shows every time she is videoed. She has to hold on to every hand rail, every time. The woman has serious health problems. She likely will not be able to perform the duties of the presidency. They will have to keep her hidden to an extent. That extent will depend on the severity and progressive deterioration of her health. If she becomes incapacitated to the extent she is not able to function, then Kaine that neutered chesser cat will assume the position.

  74. @Blaximus

    “I’ve brainstormed myself into near exhaustion, trying to understand why I tend to see ” things ” in an almost polar opposite as the rest of the manosphere ( Save for Rational Male. The only site worth reading for me ).”

    I left a post for you on Spare the Rod. Have you read it? It’s at the last page of posts.

  75. Mitch is fucked. He’ll have to find it out for himself firsthand though. We all know it.

    And if Trump is anti-status-quo then there is no anti-status-quo. Trump’s the kind of asshole that buys politicians, he’s just decided to try and forego the middle man. He’s stated openly and repeatedly he’s for ratcheting up restrictions on freedom of the press because he doesn’t like them saying mean things about him. On top of that he just strikes me as incompetent. Fuck him and fuck Hillary.

  76. @Mitch,

    If you’re willing to play the overseas card then why go with 44? I’d go with that escort idea that someone gave you. If you have overseas mobility and cash then why give it all over to the “Man Up” team?

    @Trump comments

    The ‘Click This Button for Your Outrage Pellet’ industry just hit a major jackpot. That mechanism is basically all that our culture, national character and government is anymore…
    Recreational faux outrage driving every aspect of our culture: governmental, social, legal.

    @”White silence is violence”

    This will be the next terrain for SJW’s. It’s so easy to imagine workplace ‘movements’ like signature drives/donations/fund-raising in the break room, on campus, in the neighborhood, all to benefit leftist tokens. It will be done in such a way that refusing to play along will be very conspicuous and righteously condemned to the point of career damage and/or justified attack in whatever form.

  77. Lol…you guys can go fuck yourselves. I appreciate where ya’ll are coming from, though. Trying to save me from myself. And i appreciate how naive my post must sound to a bunch of hard core red pillers like yourselves. However, I am not nearly as inexperienced with women and LTR’s as ya’ll assume. I have learned a lot from red pill in general and this site in particular – it’s very insightful and helpful, and I’ve adjusted my attitude and posture toward women because of it. At the same time, though, it strikes me that many of you are taking on red pill ideas as a kind of ideology, and that’s its own kind of danger. The absolute certainty that ya’ll think you know all you need to know about me and my woman and my relationship from that very brief post is what I mean. As if red-pill theory, or whatever it is, completely and concisely explains the total dynamic between a man and woman. Red pill explains a lot of things really well, but certainly not the totality of the mystery that is between a man a woman in a marriage. If you don’t understand what I’m talking about, then I feel sorry for you. Red pill helps me tremendously in seeing more clearly what is going on. I totally get that I am a beta provider for her, that a large part of my appeal is what I can provide, and I get that she is turned on by alpha traits. Both of these things can coexist in the same person. Understanding this and what’s behind it makes me feel less anxious and insecure about that, because I’m more clear about what to do.

    Also, being a beta provider does not make me a bitch. Providing for my woman and family is a large part of what makes me a man, and I derive great satisfaction and pride in doing so.
    Also, I am not in any way “settling” for a 44 yo woman. Younger women were/are available to me, but that is not what i choose.

    There’s a lot more to life than fucks and bucks, but if that’s all it is for you, then this is the type of woman you will attract. In a relationship, what you get is what you are. If I can’t find a way to live with an open heart, then I don’t know what the fucking point is. But, to each his own.

  78. “Lol…you guys can go fuck yourselves. I appreciate where ya’ll are coming from, though.”

    Q.E.D.

  79. OK, Mitch has considered all of the pros and cons, and still purposefully strides the path.

    That takes a bit of guts, especially in this particular domain. All I can say is good luck to him.

    I must say that I know quite a few cuntstruck middle-lifers, who have segued into a somewhat enjoyable late-middle life partnership, but the unexpected “grand children” seem to uniformly cause a bit of angst. Or more.

    Let’s just wait for Mitch to report in a few years’ time. It may well be an object lesson par excellence!

  80. Mitch,

    You’ve gained all of the knowledge but you only use it to better articulate your mistakes. You’ve used redpill knowledge to set yourself up on a tee even more effectively then some complete rube would be able to. A rube with no knowledge of any RP ideas could do better just by being behaving randomly and throwing a curve ball in the situation just due to having no framework at all. You seem to think that knowing all of these principles will allow you to safely behave in a blue-pill way without getting the (very likely) results. You remind me of that school field trip a few years ago where the group went to stay in a polar bear sanctuary land. Like, “We know they’re dangerous. We’re aware of that and we have addressed that reality.” Kid got eaten. It was a sad example of how people, in the information age, will often mistake information for wisdom. It’s possible that you are doing that.

  81. I cant believe Mitch that would be Mitch’s response. Apparently he is beyond reasoning with, maybe he is tingling. Love has conquered all. So all we can do is read the last rites? It is like trying to talk to a teenage girl who is head over heels with the local drug pusher. Rihana got her face pushed in real good; still no sense. If pushing in a face does not work then likely advice from faceless sages in an online forum will not work for such case. Tingles.

  82. Höllenhund, I think you’re missing the mark on Derbyshire. What he is observing are The Beautiful Ones. They spend all their time making themselves attractive, but withdraw from actual attracting.

    If he’s indeed doing that, he doesn’t know it. He seems to believe men have increased their sexual attractiveness in the past 50-60 years by improving their hygiene. That’s clearly wrong.

  83. If Clinton gets elected, she may not be capable of serving out her term. She is being kept out of the media spot light and off the campaign trail for a reason. There is a reason she has not held nearly as many rallies or media covered events as typical. She has a hard time climbing the steps to board a plane. This shows every time she is videoed. She has to hold on to every hand rail, every time. The woman has serious health problems. She likely will not be able to perform the duties of the presidency.

    Her presidency would be something akin to Brezhnev’s later years in the Soviet Union – economic stagnation, ideological exhaustion, foreign policy mistakes, worsening social problems and pathologies. What will happen is that her deputies will run the country as a sort of junta, because she won’t have the energy and fortitude to lead. In such circumstances, I doubt we’d see a resurgence in leftist revolutionary politics, although that’s what her enemies are warning about. At this point, the majority of the US population wants nothing more than the preservation of what prosperity and comfort they have left. It’s an ageing, exhausted society. That’s precisely why Hillary is its fitting leader.

  84. Novaseeker was predicting on Dalrock’s blog that there’s no way Trump will win the nomination in the first place. Just saying. It’s not that I disagree with his main arguments, but I’d be more cautious. At this point it’s difficult to say how many people Hillary can actually mobilize.

  85. You’ve used redpill knowledge to set yourself up on a tee even more effectively then some complete rube would be able to. A rube with no knowledge of any RP ideas could do better just by being behaving randomly and throwing a curve ball in the situation just due to having no framework at all. You seem to think that knowing all of these principles will allow you to safely behave in a blue-pill way without getting the (very likely) results.

    Well, it’s a textbook case of what Rollo describes of not wanting to depart from a blue pill mindset, and set of books, entirely, while trying to embrace bits and pieces of a red pill mindset. It’s very common, and the reason is also fairly easy to understand: getting rid of the old set of books, the blue pill, in its entirety is painful in the sense that it involves a shift in worldview that for guys who have bought into it that is quite traumatic (for naturals or people who have more or less had the red pill mindset forever, this doesn’t happen, but that’s not the guys we are talking about, and it isn’t most guys in 2016 either). It’s painful. They *want* to live with “an open heart” in a blue pill sense. They *want* to believe they have found an exception, a good one, a soul mate and so on. They *want* to believe they have found a way around the red pill reality by finding a back door, or a country where women “are not like that as much” or something similar. They want this because if they can actually find it and pull it off, they don’t have to do the painful separation from the old set of books and its mindset that is required to thrive under the new set of books regime. It’s a common response, and it’s what we see here. Truly, none of us knows what will happen, but we all see the red flags. But, as the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink. C’est la vie.

    Novaseeker was predicting on Dalrock’s blog that there’s no way Trump will win the nomination in the first place. Just saying.

    That’s true. I’ve often pointed out to my RL friends throughout the process that I have been wrong about Trump at every stage of the way so far, and that he has proven to be enormously difficult to predict at every stage of the process — so there is that. I don’t see it happening, personally, but of course I could be wrong as I have been so far about Trump. A key issue, I think, is how reliably the polls are capturing his support. It’s at least possible that they are not accurately doing so for various reasons, and that therefore the race is closer in key places than it appears to be. We will see soon enough in any case.

  86. I’m looking forward to the debate tonight. Sort of. If nothing else it will be entertaining. So many questions…
    -Will Trump get his act together this time and hit the occasional slow pitch?
    -Will the motley assortment of caretakers, controlled substance pushers, and necroticians pull it off for Hillary again this time?
    -Will Hillary forget her lines and/or lose her implanted earpiece prompter?
    -Will Trump actually prepare AT ALL this time?

  87. He wants to dream like a young man
    With the wisdom of an old man.
    He wants his home and security.
    He wants to live like a sailor at sea.
    Beautiful MITCH, where you gonna fall?
    You realize you just don’t need it all.

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