Case Study – Mitch’s Purple Pill

mitch

This week we had an interesting situation arise in the comment threads. A new(?) reader, Mitch, dropped in to recount his affair with a Ukrainian woman he’d become enamored with, emphasis mine:

I’d like to encourage men who still want a good wife to look East. As in, Russia, Ukraine and other former USSR counties. I cannot begin to tell you how encouraged and revitalized I am by this woman I met – and by most of the women I met and interacted with before I found “the One.

Full stop. Whenever a man even casually mentions a woman as ‘the ONE‘ you know he’s still clinging to his Blue Pill, feminine-primary conditioning. This is your first signal of a man’s mindset and is a glaring Beta Tell.

Next Mitch moves on to qualify the object of his, still unmet, ONEitis:

The biggest difference between these women and western women are three things: 1) They have a strong desire to find “their Right Man”. Educated, smart, attractive women with careers find life is not meaningful without husband and family. 2) What they require from a man is reliability, respectfulness and willingness to provide for a family. They want to be treated respectfully and well, but they definitely want to be treated like a woman. 3) They have no ambivalence whatsoever about being appealing to their man.

They celebrate this about themselves, their femininity and sex appeal. These women are genuine, direct, and have no time for games and are generally not interested (but are quite aware of) western feminism. Interestingly, during Soviet times women were “emancipated” from the homes and out into the factory and collectives, and the government propaganda machine even downplayed and tried to discourage marriage. So these women really know what all this means, and since the collapse of the USSR, (which has been a mixed bag for them in many ways) they have enthusiastically embraced traditional gender and marriage relationships. In fact, my woman very explicitly told me early on that she had no interest in an egalitarian relationship – and she has been very clear about what she wants and expects from me, and I couldn’t be more delighted.
(I’ve spent a week with her in person, talk on Skype a couple times a day, am meeting her in Italy in 7 weeks, after which she comes back here, hopefully for good. Oh, and she’s gorgeous and awesome in a million different ways. Wish me luck…. )

Sounds like a Blue Pill dream come true, right? I haven’t done a case study in some time so I’m going to take Mitch’s situation here and riff on it a bit. I really think it’s good to review certain fundamentals for the sake of men who are new to my work, but also for Red Pill men to understand the Blue Pill way of thinking to better help men like Mitch to unplug.

In The Purple Pill I outlined the process by which previously Red Pill men degrade themselves back into their Blue Pill mindsets. Most do this in the same fashion as someone like Tucker Max. They renounce their Red Pill behaviors and, for the most part, make attempts to compartmentalize the harsh truths they know women would rather they didn’t know or expose to other men. Guys of this Purple Pill stripe still cling (or return to clinging) to their old Blue Pill idealism in the hopes that the goals their old conditioning taught them was still possible.

This Purple Pill man still has had some exposure to, and practice with, a Red Pill awareness. The difference is that due to some life circumstance (unplanned or “accidental” pregnancy) or some part of his Beta self he was unable to disconnect from (the soul mate myth) in his Red Pill awareness.

However, Mitch represents another type of Purple Pill man. This is the guy who’s become Red Pill aware, but believes he can make his Blue Pill idealism work in a Red Pill context from the outset of his partial unplugging. As a result, there’s a certain degree of affirmation seeking men of this stripe look for from other men in Red Pill forums. That affirmation is entirely based in the false hope that he can use Red Pill truths to achieve Blue Pill goals. Thus, he looks for affirmation in this feminine-primary idealism without realizing he’s really just asking Red Pill men for their permission to persist in his Blue Pill hope while calling it Red Pill for himself.

Mitch goes on over several comments in an effort to get this permission to define his ONEitis as a Red Pill goal by qualifying her in every Blue Pill way imaginable. Needless to say the stink of Blue Pill conditioning wasn’t hard for my forum members to identify. He insists he’s read my work well enough to be considered Red Pill aware, but his actions and attitudes with this woman tell a much different story.

When called out on this fact we get the obligatory, “Lol…you guys can go fuck yourselves..

Lol…you guys can go fuck yourselves. I appreciate where ya’ll are coming from, though. Trying to save me from myself. And i appreciate how naive my post must sound to a bunch of hard core red pillers like yourselves. However, I am not nearly as inexperienced with women and LTR’s as ya’ll assume. I have learned a lot from red pill in general and this site in particular – it’s very insightful and helpful, and I’ve adjusted my attitude and posture toward women because of it. At the same time, though, it strikes me that many of you are taking on red pill ideas as a kind of ideology, and that’s its own kind of danger. The absolute certainty that ya’ll think you know all you need to know about me and my woman and my relationship from that very brief post is what I mean. As if red-pill theory, or whatever it is, completely and concisely explains the total dynamic between a man and woman. Red pill explains a lot of things really well, but certainly not the totality of the mystery that is between a man a woman in a marriage. If you don’t understand what I’m talking about, then I feel sorry for you. Red pill helps me tremendously in seeing more clearly what is going on. I totally get that I am a beta provider for her, that a large part of my appeal is what I can provide, and I get that she is turned on by alpha traits. Both of these things can coexist in the same person. Understanding this and what’s behind it makes me feel less anxious and insecure about that, because I’m more clear about what to do.

Also, being a beta provider does not make me a bitch. Providing for my woman and family is a large part of what makes me a man, and I derive great satisfaction and pride in doing so.
Also, I am not in any way “settling” for a 44 yo woman. Younger women were/are available to me, but that is not what i choose.

There’s a lot more to life than fucks and bucks, but if that’s all it is for you, then this is the type of woman you will attract. In a relationship, what you get is what you are. If I can’t find a way to live with an open heart, then I don’t know what the fucking point is. But, to each his own.

I don’t get mad with responses like this. It’s really all part of men’s unplugging. I’ve said it a million times, unplugging men from the Matrix is dirty work. Understand this now if you ever hope to aid a guy in coming to the Red Pill, there will always be a lot of anger, denial and frustration that comes from the disillusionment of breaking a man’s ego-investment in a Blue Pill mindset that he’s been conditioned to for the better part of his lifetime.

I found Mitch’s story engaging because it so faithfully follows the progression of rationales Purple Pill men will use in order to hold fast to their old, comfortable mindset. Thus, you see the binary extremes of anything that contradicts those old investments:

The absolute certainty that ya’ll think you know all you need to know about me and my woman and my relationship from that very brief post is what I mean. As if red-pill theory, or whatever it is, completely and concisely explains the total dynamic between a man and woman.

Here we see the attempt to cast doubt, but also a plea for confirmation of theory. He wants to believe that because there are no hard-fast conclusions of the uncomfortable aspects of the Red Pill that the possibility exists that his Blue Pill hopes may still be valid.

Red pill explains a lot of things really well, but certainly not the totality of the mystery that is between a man a woman in a marriage. If you don’t understand what I’m talking about, then I feel sorry for you.

Disqualification, but wrapped in the magical romantic language of Blue Pill idealism. Add a bit of pseudo-heartfelt pity for the men who wont reaffirm his idealisms.

Red pill helps me tremendously in seeing more clearly what is going on. I totally get that I am a beta provider for her, that a large part of my appeal is what I can provide, and I get that she is turned on by alpha traits. Both of these things can coexist in the same person. Understanding this and what’s behind it makes me feel less anxious and insecure about that, because I’m more clear about what to do.

Later on in the comments, Mitch tries to reassure me he’s thoroughly read my essays, but it’s obvious he hasn’t read The Myth of the Good Guy after making this comment. Most of his remaining comments are variations of this, to which he’s entirely oblivious of how apparent his Blue Pill nature is to the forum.

Feel free to read through the conversations, but they all came to a head in his most recent admission here:

 

Guys, thanks for sticking with me.

I sent her a text this morning that basically said I am going to fuck you in Italy. I love you, and this is what’s going down. We’ve had a number of conversations about sex before, about what didn’t happen in Odessa, etc. But I never pushed too hard. She says can we talk. So I skype her. And we go round and round about this. I’m staying calm, even sweet. But firm. The solipsism is off the charts – of course I’d seen this every time we argue, but eh, she’s a woman, what else is new? I just keep gently and firmly sticking to the topic, and she’s doing all she can to change it. Lashing out at me, saying I’m mentally ill, she thought I was different than other men, I’m trying to rape her, etc. Saying I’ve blown our relationship, she has all what I want, but I’m blowing it, good bye. On and on. Jesus Christ.

I’m now strongly suspecting bpd. These women are a fucking magnet for me. I did have interactions with very normal, genuine nice women over there – and tended to be religious – one very nice woman that I enjoyed talking to was very upfront from the beginning that she’s strong Catholic and will not have sex before marriage. I respect that completely. That didn’t even chase me off. It’s just that this other woman was so much more compelling. If she is bpd, she is the third experience I’ve had with this type. They are like catnip to me. Now that I see it, I’m definitely not going down that road with her because I’m all too aware of where it inevitably leads. Good. But, still..fuck!

Mitch, you’re not going to like what I’m about to type here for you, but just know that it’s a necessary kick in the ass and I’m in no way trying to flame you. As I mentioned in my last comment to you, you really need to read all of the links in my Year One collection.

I’m going to pick apart your latest report about this girl you ‘love’ and I think you should really give yourself some time to consider what you think has been your half-measure unplugging.

I sent her a text this morning that basically said I am going to fuck you in Italy. I love you, and this is what’s going down.We’ve had a number of conversations about sex before, about what didn’t happen in Odessa, etc. But I never pushed too hard. She says can we talk.

Two things here; first, you are using texting as a Buffer. This is what I would expect from a teenager or someone with an adolescent social skill set. Texting you ‘love’ her and convincing yourself you do after no more than a week of in-person interaction is a major, jumbotron-scale signal that you are not only Beta and Blue Pill, but also you subscribe to a scarcity mentality. This is rule one.

Secondly, you cannot negotiate genuine desire. You having conversations about how you’re going to fuck her in Italy are evidence that you really have no clue how Game works. Your pre-sex talks about having sex are again a major signal of your Blue Pill headspace:

Iron Rule of Tomassi #3

Any woman who makes you wait for sex, or by her actions implies she is making you wait for sex; the sex is NEVER worth the wait.

When a woman makes you wait for sex you are not her highest priority. Sexuality is spontaneous chemical reaction between two parties, not a process of negotiation. It’s sex first, then relationship, not the other way around. A woman who wants to fuck you will find a way to fuck you. She will fly across the country, crawl under barbwire, climb in through your second story bedroom window, fuck the shit out of you and wait patiently inside your closet if your wife comes home early from work – women who want to fuck will find a way to fuck. The girl who tells you she needs to be comfortable and wants a relationship first is the same girl who fucked the hot guy in the foam cannon party in Cancun on spring break just half an hour after meeting him.

Your conversations are all evidence that you buy into the ‘open communication’ Blue Pill narrative.

So I skype her. And we go round and round about this. I’m staying calm, even sweet. [Beta] But firm.[still thinking RP men will say that’s Alpha] The solipsism is off the charts – of course I’d seen this every time we argue, but eh, she’s a woman, what else is new?[attempt to confirm RP terms, and another plea for affirmation]

I just keep gently and firmly sticking to the topic, and she’s doing all she can to change it. Lashing out at me, saying I’m mentally ill, she thought I was different than other men, I’m trying to rape her, etc. Saying I’ve blown our relationship, she has all what I want, but I’m blowing it, good bye. On and on. Jesus Christ.

All this woman is doing is confirming your status as a Beta for her. Likely she thought you’d be an easy mark, but your overt insistence on preplanned, negotiated and scheduled sex has made her lose interest in you even as a Beta provider.

I’m now strongly suspecting bpd. These women are a fucking magnet for me. I did have interactions with very normal, genuine nice women over there – and tended to be religious – one very nice woman that I enjoyed talking to was very upfront from the beginning that she’s strong Catholic and will not have sex before marriage. I respect that completely.

This woman is not suffering from BPD, she’s responding how most women would when they have a man’s Beta status overtly confirmed for them. You believe these ‘types’ of women are drawn to you when in fact you have the same effect on every woman when you overtly demonstrate your lower value to them by sticking to your Beta Game while thinking it’s some how the correct, Red Pill way of dealing with women.

The only reason you believe you respect a Catholic woman is because you have no choice but to respect her because she reaffirms your Blue Pill nature, but still wont fuck you.

I’m going to invite the commenters to address Mitch’s situation in the comment thread, but I’ll start here by saying you really need to thoroughly read through my posts (or books if you prefer). You are in no way ‘woke’ to a Red Pill awareness Mitch. For as much as you believe you are, your behaviors, your mindset, all point to a guy who’s read some Red Pill ideas, but can’t disconnect from his Blue Pill hopes and attitudes.

You’re trying to force fit a Blue Pill hope into a Red Pill reality. This is why the last 3 women you’ve reported you’ve been involved with have been the same. It’s not them, it’s you.

Again, I didn’t write this post to flame you, but rather to let you serve as an example of how pervasive a Blue Pill mindset is, and how it retards a man’s social intelligence and his maturation.

786 comments

  1. Keep sprinkling a little alpha on it brothers, it’s all parlor tricks and mind games aparently. Will see another of these posts on reddit. Typed as if it’s showing wisdom of ‘AWALT is real boys, hope you learn from my experement’. instead of the obvious ego protection it is.

    At least as a failure in a FR, it would have merit. I don’t think OP will have the self awareness to learn from this one either.

  2. Mitch I may not have been on the whole conversation. But if I where in your shoes take this all as a compliment.

  3. LOL don’t kill me, guy got absolutely destroyed…reading mitche’s interactions were pretty cringe worthy.

    It’s not common seeing purple piller’s stumble on here and just start popping off in comments. I am assuming most read through all the archives first and get more red pill aware.

    This post had my dying reading through lol, I love this site.

  4. No he’s not beyond hope, he would have stomped off instead of continuing to engage. But he kept coming back. Something was nagging at him, forcing him to come back repeatedly. If he just wanted affirmation he could have gone to Blue Pill Reddit.

    As the learned gentlemen here have been telling you, Tovarisch Mitch, the Red Pill is hard to swallow, many gag on it at first and some spit it out. It’s easier I think if you recognize that now you are seeing things as they ARE, not as they SHOULD BE like we all were told for decades. Knowing that things now make sense with what yours eyes are seeing can be a big palliative for the otherwise difficult brain resets you must now install. At least it was for me.

  5. I was once in somewhere in this video.

    Now Im focusing entirely on myself.
    Mitch brother journal on the things in both Rollos books with your experiences. Than journal some more.

  6. I think men should reread ‘kill the beta’ post from time to time.

    Yes, love feels great.
    No, love doesn’t count – at all. It doesn’t really mean anything.

  7. He is no purple pill; he is blue pill. The fact that he is putting his hopes on a long distance relationship with a 40+ woman tells me all I need to know. Seriously, one week together and a bunch of online interactions and he thinks that’s all it is needed? and no sex on top of that? No, no, no…There is a difference between reading about red pill and experiencing it. The same as the guy who reads about boxing and thinks he knows; even though he never entered the ring to fight or at least to do some sparring. You think you know; but your body will betray you. You will clinge to her, suplicate her not to leave you, idiolize her, etc, etc, etc. That’s why the most important article in this blog is “Kill The Beta” where the author writes “…the man you wish to become requires you to take action.” That’s it; no pilot has been awarded his license without flight hours.

  8. It’s not them, it’s you.

    Can you have a threadwinna in the OP?

    Is there a need for any additional comments? So crisp, so sharp…

  9. @Blaximus: I was very disappointed when I saw you backing Mitch up, albeit temporarily, in the last comment thread. You at least politely backtracked when he kept digging deeper and admitted he hadn’t even had sex with the One-itis, but as I recall you pitched in the support after his first post, and even his first post was Blue Pill enough to raise serious Red Flags.

    I suspect you were overeager to support his intent to Marry that woman due to the ongoing debate of some OMG vs YSG(and YMG I guess, like Andy and me).

  10. I don’t think Mitch is hopeless at all.

    I think Mitch will have the self awareness to learn from this.

    He may or may not give up his blue pill mindset. He may or may not be able to.

    The important thing is that he become more red pill aware. The goal of married red pill men is to become more alpha and have a desire to be more alpha in mindset and self improve and keep Frame. (In other words, not everyone can have, or master, it all).

    Without Mitch actually having a desire for Genuine Red Pill Awareness (i.e. read all of Year One or the first book), then no he certainly will retain Blue Pill instincts and techniques.

    What makes me say this is that he doesn’t seem to be a guy prone to pangs of Grief over his abilities or mindset. Sure he may have some covert denial and bargaining going on in his mind, but thankfully he’s not exhibiting anger or depression. He certainly seems eloquent, realistic and settled with a lot of life experiences.

    It does seem he needs a new direction, a new strategy with women.

    I think he can get agency if he keeps in mind Red Pill is praxeology (getting or accomplishing what he wants). Red Pill Awareness is not ideology.

    I do agree with Rollo, one of the biggest problems Mitch will face is Plateau-ing. Being satisfied with settling after making progress– settling for Blue Pill hope (after tactical gains with women) in a Red Pill reality. The problem is he hasn’t gotten to the point where he knows what red pill reality actually is. (Once again Mitch, Red Pill is not an ideology like feminism, communism and religion)

    Unfortunately he has demonstrated that he has too much hope (with is good if it is in a red pill mindset, but not in a blue pill Cypher–from the Matrix Movie–like hope).

    Hope is not a strategy. Red pill awareness and applied Game is.

    Good luck with your strategy.

  11. @ Rollo “…he looks for affirmation in this feminine-primary idealism without realizing he’s really just asking Red Pill men for their permission to persist in his Blue Pill hope while calling it Red Pill for himself.”

    Bingo!! Bingo brother bingo.

  12. @YaReally and PUA: about Halloween (posted on previous comment thread), good point. I should try to do some sets myself. I have been thinking of DHV stories, but I’d like to get some pointers on refining them. Obviously anyone feel free to “steal this” and try it out in the field.

    Here is the first which you may recall as part of a previous FR.

    DHV story – “I fucked my dog”

    So I got early to a club by myself and was looking around. The only people I see are a group of many girls, all dressed in the same color shirt. I head straight to them and ask one of them what are they up to. Turns out they are the local [SPORT] team. I spot 4 girls that I know that also arrived early and go hang out with them. After a while my girls want to go take pictures, and we go to corner right next to where the [SPORT] team is sitting down. My girls ask me to pose with them but as I [have enough pictures already / don’t like having pics posted on social media] I just sit down while I wait for them to finish getting that perfect [MySpace / Facebook] selfie that is oh so important for girls. As I had my back turned to them, one of the girls from the [SPORT] team goes “See. You just scared this guy off”. I turn to them, see the girl was pointing at me. I shrug, so another one of them looks me dead in the eye and goes “I just told them that I fucked my dog”. I’m holding eye contact throughout, smirk and ask her “Did your dog consent?” She gets puzzled by that but goes “Yes” and I go “Well, if the dog consented, it wasn’t rape!”
    [It would probably be better not to mention rape; ideas?]

  13. I’m really glad I went TL;DR before I got to his comments. Painful. It reminds me of the couple I saw a few days ago. This blue pill potato of a dude was with this hot little Asian chick. He was talking to her like he was some font of knowledge regarding living in America. It definitely had a mail order feel to it. What is it now? She has to wait 7 years before she can gut him in family court? I hope he enjoys the ignorance is bliss phase.

  14. The appeal of the purple pill is something you should write to us more about. It’s like living your whole life knowing a particular liquid is sweet juice (blue pill), then finding out its actually a popular slow poison (redpill awareness) but finding yourself unable to resist the pull of your herd and thus rationalizing why the poison is still some form of juice (purple pill).

  15. Wow. That was so incredibly painful to read, I felt like I was standing right next to a guy who took a bullet to the chest…

    That was a brilliant, pinpoint dissection of Mitch’s condition from first to last. For me, the best sentence was this:

    “You believe these ‘types’ of women are drawn to you when in fact you have the same effect on every woman when you overtly demonstrate your lower value to them by sticking to your Beta Game while thinking it’s some how the correct, Red Pill way of dealing with women.”

    I could not put that better if I had a year to write it. When you’ve ever been loathed by a woman for not being the men she wanted you to be, you definitely feel it like a kick in the chest. And I can’t believe Mitch was so tone deaf to mistake that for BPD. Sheesh…

    Believe me, having had a past much like Mitch’s, I know how much the truth hurts like a bitch. You’ll do anything, rationalize anything to avoid dealing with the reality that you’ll feel pain. But like pulling a rotten tooth, the pain is relatively brief but the release and freedom you get from it in incalculable.

    That essay wasn’t a beatdown; it was a hand up. Pull the tooth, Mitch, and don’t look back.

  16. @Mitch – “I’ve spent a week with her in person, talk on Skype a couple times a day, am meeting her in Italy in 7 weeks, after which she comes back here, hopefully for good.”

    This is perhaps the most damning self revealing statement in all of Mitch’s discourse. Spending only a week with a woman and skyping a couple times a day is no testament of their viability for a real manifestation of his unicorn mirage. Especially since the mirage is viewed from across the globe, filtered by limited time intervals, technology and blue pill expectations. The limited “knowledge” he has of this girl can only be based primarily on his fantastic expectations, and is no comparison to the enlightenment available from the breath of real experiences millions of men have had with women.

    At this time Mitch you are a “clinger”. You are clinging to the soul mate, Dulcinea del Toboso, impossible dream chaste from afar myth. Get ready for the storm of red pill reality to blow and batter your soul with all its fury and turbulence. Do not blame your struggle on other men, especially those who have weathered and survived the same storm. Let go of your fantastic expectations. Know that such expectations always come with the consequence they will not be met. Do not enslave yourself to a dream. Do you really think some other culture half way around the globe has incubated and conditioned this woman and molded her into a collage of characteristics that meet your soul mate criteria?

  17. @RMlurker:

    The appeal of the purple pill is something you should write to us more about. It’s like living your whole life knowing a particular liquid is sweet juice (blue pill), then finding out its actually a popular slow poison (redpill awareness) but finding yourself unable to resist the pull of your herd and thus rationalizing why the poison is still some form of juice (purple pill).

    +1 and well said. What is more common among middle aged men that stumble upon red pill knowledge, immediate acceptance, or prolonged resistance?

    Mitch is a middle aged man by his own admission. So am I, as obviously are many of Rollo’s readers. Some guys find Rollo and other good info, and fight it for all the reasons outlined in this post. Speaking for myself, it was the fact that I had lived long enough, and had committed virtually every error of commission and omission a blue pill guy can make; that made it so easy to understand and accept everything I was reading. You see yourself all over the place. You see every woman you’ve ever known throughout all the topics. I mean your own Mom did this stuff, and you now recognize it instantly.

    I’m just another of the famous average chumps, not trying to sell some version of see-how-clever-I-am, I got it right away. But how can a guy approaching 50 not see himself and a thousand women he’s met in these essays?

  18. The genuine virgin(18-24) women who makes you wait for sex is very different from your average 5+ n modern woman. The problem is, it’s almost impossible to decipher the cons and born again virgins from the unicorns. This guy thought he had a catholic unicorn. Unfortunately, any women who is 44 is not a virgin and is thus toying with this guy.

    Plus, as much as we like to hate on feminists, you have revealed classic nice guy manipulative behavior which has give genuinely kind men a bad name. You couldn’t act like a real man who needs sex from the start, so you manipulate her into thinking you’re asexual. Then you want to flip the script and she’s wondering what the hell got into you. I don’t blame her at all.

  19. This blog, red pill teachings and the manosphere primarily address the psychological and social aspects of sexual and social gender dynamics.

    The physiological biological chemical aspect of blue pill conditioning and blue pill addiction is mostly being ignored or at best is not addressed nearly as seriously as it should be.

    Any sex (intercourse, fellatio, or masturbation) releases very powerful neurological chemical compounds such a dopamine, oxytocin, and serotonin within the brain. We are all subject to behavior reward dynamics based in our physiological, biological, chemical constitution.

    This subjugation existing simultaneously with psychological conditioning and social pressures is extremely powerful.

    A man is wise to objectively and consistently consider these entire realities and manage himself rationally.

    The definition of insanity….

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/in-therapy/200907/the-definition-insanity-is

  20. @NBTM,

    Even more fascinating is the effects hormones play on portions of men’s brains when assessing sexual cues in a potential sex partner. Healthy testosterone levels literally causes men to perceive women as sexual objects; stimulating the same portions of our brains used for cognitive problem solving. However, testosterone is mitigated by oxytocin, the hormone secreted just post orgasm. While testosterone is responsible for sex drive and aggressive impulses (not to mention muscular development, deepening of voice and hair growth), oxytocin is linked to feelings of nurturing, trust, and comfort. Oxytocin is believed to be a primary influence in post-sex, and post pregnancy, emotional attachment in women who produce the hormone in much higher amounts than men. Postpartum depression is actually a withdrawal symptom triggered by the decrease in oxytocin (and progesterone) in post-birth women.The effect of post-orgasm oxytocin in men is similar to women, however in men it is also serves as a buffering agent to heightened dopamine and testosterone levels.

    Oxytocin plays a critical part in regulating a man’s testosterone levels. Just post-orgasm, the human body flushes oxytocin into the bloodstream to balance out the endorphin and dopamine high of sexual arousal. While this hormone promotes feelings of trust and comfort in men, it also serves to ‘calm the guy down’ sexually. Oxytocin is a testosterone buffer in men, thus resulting in you going limp for a while after busting a nut. From an evolutionary perspective this makes sense in that it ensures the sperm deposited stays in a woman’s vagina, thus increasing fertility odds, instead of being shoveled out by a still erect penis. Not only that, but oxytocin serves as a ‘pair bonding’ hormone in that it fosters feelings of protective trust in men. Oxytocin discharge in humans is also triggered by pheromonal and environmental prompts.

    https://therationalmale.com/2011/11/17/the-pheromonal-beta/

    Pay up.

  21. @NBTM:

    I understand what Dr. Hayes is saying, but I understand rather more than that, because I am not a professional therapist.

    The word insanity and its meaning predate the DSM and Black’s by millennia, and English common law itself by more than a millennia.

    He can claim that his professional jargon is the only meaning, but he is wrong. When I say that a person is playing power politics I do not mean that his political tactic is his mass times his acceleration, even though my training informs me that that is only “true” meaning.

    I suppose if the word were changed to “bonkers” he might claim that the word, and thus the phrase, has no meaning at all, because it does not appear in the DSM or Black’s.

    Yet most of us know exactly the meaning the phrase was intended to convey, even if some people are bonkers and misuse it as a buffer.

  22. Yes, times velocity. I know. Gimme a break. Sometimes I type faster than I think. Nasty habit. Maybe I should take up hunt and peck.

  23. Blue Pill is easy, it requires hope but no work. Red Pill requires hard work and so it’s easy to abandon it in favour of a more passive approach.

    Guys who have been taught if they play nice, behave and wait their turn they will be rewarded. That is the hardest thing to swallow for guy’s like Mitch who meet some “girl of their dreams”.

    We read this and see 40+ Ukrainian girl and our Red Pill radar goes off. We know how this ends. That’s hard for a lot of guys raised in the FI to swallow.

  24. @ IAS

    What I said was….

    ” I’m sure you get why many here are sounding the alarms. I think they all have the best of intentions, even when exercising tough love towards you.

    I tend to see both sides of the argument. Here and elsewhere in the sphere there is a very strong tendency to talk ” awalt ” to extremes, as if all women are irrational users and divorce papers that will spoil everything they touch, every single time, guaranteed.

    I believe PUA and red pill thought are so powerful, they tend to overwhelm.

    Things like ” heart ” and ” love ” are now roundly ridiculed. Men are to live solely by cold, hard logic at all times, no exceptions.

    The cure is worse than the disease.

    I don’t believe that men have to go outside the country to find women they can actually deal with as a man is supposed to deal with women, but ultimately the decision is up to the individual man, as it should be.

    I know men, some in my own family, that have ” imported ” women. Over the course of 20 or more years, only 1 has suffered because of it.

    If you believe you are indeed informed and still wish to go forward, it doesn’t really matter what any other man thinks.” <— Truth.

    Where's the over eager support of marriage?

  25. runduhustle
    October 13, 2016 at 1:34 pm

    It;s no secret that Eastern European women want to marry westerners. These women want green cards. They know how to take advantage of naive men.

    Hence the execution of the indignation during the skype conversation. Make him fall back in line with her plans. If he doesn’t, just find another one.
    All that good femininity and what ever he listed would’ve faded once she came over if he would’ve brought her over to stay. Cargo pants would’ve been her favorite in about 4-6 months.
    But the moment he said “…the mystery that is between a man and a woman in marriage…” stood out like a somebody who had a leaky pen in their shirt pocket.

  26. If you want to keep the women the way you fell in love with, keep her in the country you found her in. The US is toxic for such women – keep them in the environment they know with the infrastructure that created them. Do not bring them to the US – that is the course to destruction. You’re better sticking with very young women – they tend not to be corrupted as much. That is why I stick to women younger than 25 – it is purely due to priority differences in men and women – keep your priorities at the fore-front. Show me a married woman, and I’ll show you a woman thinking of divorce, and how to stick-it-to-you… Best to not give them the opportunity to be tempted.

  27. No sign of Mitch in the comments yet. Mitch, where art thou? I noticed he tried to post some pics of his love interest after I last conversed with him. That’s a bad sign – lol.

  28. @Hunter S Thompson:

    You beat Houdini and win the prize. Perhaps he gave up before the proper technology became available.

  29. Mr. Tomassi,

    I’m surprised you haven’t commented on the election yet. It occurs to me (in my non-expert opinion) that there are several Red Pill issues in play.

    For example, I’m sure you noticed that (according to 538) Mr. Trump’s poll numbers dropped significantly after the “They let me grab their pussy” comments were made public. This was also a time of mass elite GOP defection.

    As at the time of writing, Mrs. Clinton apparently (as per 538) stands an 87% chance of winning the electoral college. Indeed, I would suggest that the Democrats are currently looking at The House, essentially (rightly or wrongly) assured of the presidency.

    Again, as at the time or writing, Mr. Trump’s popular vote has dropped to under 35%, and is currently behind or tied in traditional republican strongholds like Utah and Arizona. Although one might argue that Arizona is due to his immigration policy (I recently had a conversation with an Arizona ex-pat who took this position), I would suggest that the recent drop in Utah would likely be due to the “pussy” comments. I note that this would be consistent with your comments on modern church life (“Churchianity?) and the Blue Pill conditions therein.

    I find it interesting that this occurred only after the “pussy” comments, and not after his (in my opinion) relatively controversial comments on immigration, etc. For example, I would suggest that a relatively strong GOP state like Utah, which also has a relatively religious (and therefore likely Blue Pill) population, may well react quite strongly to the “pussy” comments.

    I’m also sure that it did not escape your notice that 538 suggests that, if one only includes male voters, Mr. Trump would clearly be winning the current contest. I’ve been advised that there is currently a Twitter Meme that has “Pepe” saying “Repel the 19th,” a reference to the 19th amendment giving women the franchise.

    Warmest Regards,

    Hunter S Thompson

  30. Hunter S Trollson

    538? Are you fucking kidding us with that shit?

    This 538? That was sooooo on target with their “prediction” [wild ass guess, hopeful narrative or calculated disinformation – take your pick] of a Trump primary loss, that Cruz had THE path to win?

    You know the one where the guy apologized for his bias?

    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-i-acted-like-a-pundit-and-screwed-up-on-donald-trump/

    Take your fearmongering BS elsewhere troll…

    Or maybe you are a useful dupe who really believes this shit?

    “test” that…

  31. ” . . . at the time or writing, Mr. Trump’s popular vote has dropped to under 35% . . .”

    That number is actually mostly from after the release of the tape, but before the debate. Today’s telephone poll has it as Trump 43%, Clinton 41%. 84% of respondents say they have already made their final decision, and there the split is 49% Trump, 46% Clinton.

    The not finally decided 15% lean a few points to Clinton.

    This is a volatile race, and polls today may mean nothing tomorrow. And so on.

    Of note is that “A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone and online survey finds that 43% of Likely U.S. Voters say allegations by women who claim to have been sexually assaulted by Bill Clinton are worse than Trump’s graphic sexual comments about women. Twenty-eight percent (28%) say Trump’s comments are worse, but nearly as many (26%) think the behavior of the two men is about the same.”

  32. let the record state. Trump said when you’re famous you can grab them by the pussy. Didn’t say that he did.
    But it’s still red pill issues at play. Women and fame and women not liking full disclosure right there in one short phrase.

  33. the story would have been sweeter had he ended up marrying the One. I hate these short stories. I prefer the long drawn novels full of drama which, eventually, do serve as a better cautionary tale and give you “catharsis” a la Aristotle’s Poetics (arousing our fear and pity).

    Will he learn from it? Probably not. Will others learns from it? Maybe.

    Schadenfreude

  34. Well, I have a few things to say.

    First, I don’t know how you (Rollo) define “new” reader. You continue to insist that I have not read your posts, though I’ve said twice that I have. Are you calling me a liar? Or are you not actually reading what I’m saying, but only seeing what reduces into your cosmology, or whatever it is. I’m just asking – because it’s one of the two. I have not read all of your essay, but I have in fact read ALL – as in every single one – of your first year essays, and many others as well. Not recently, but a few months ago. And the occasional one in the interim. The presumption underlying this is that if I’d actually read your essays and properly understood them, then ipso facto, I would agree with you and everything all the True Believers are saying. And to the extent that I don’t agree, is the extent that I’m either in denial or I haven’t actually read, and thought about, what you’ve written. There’s a circular logic here. Do you see it?

    The reason I see the circular logic underlying this presumption is because when I was 19 years old, I got sucked into a religious cult, where I dwelled for approximately 9 months. The process of extricating myself from said cult was understanding how it happened. Learning about Totalist thinking and how and why it works. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Jay_Lifton#Studies_of_thought_reform. Circular logic is a hallmark of Totalist thinking. You believe you are thinking critically, and seeing things as they really are, but in fact you are not. Anything that contradicts your internally coherent and consistent “frame” (frame is the perfect word in this context) is either ignored or distorted so that it can be explained within the context of the frame. This is what I see in your post here. I notice several factual errors and misrepresentations in your analysis.

    Trust me, you do not want to go there with me about denial. You have no idea who I am. But you think you do. In comments some have wondered if I’m not just an elaborate troll. Ya’ll will have to decide that for yourselves, but what I will say about that is that the breadth of my experience is far beyond where the vast majority of people will go. I said before I am a natural seeker, and it’s just what I do. I go, and I experience, and I learn. That’s actually why I am here. I do not need validation from a random group of anonymous men. Really, I don’t. Validation is great, of course, and necessary for all people I think. But it is certainly not necessary for me to get it here.

    I am not here to argue with RP theory, but to engage with it. Not as a tourist. I’m sincerely interested, both from an intellectual standpoint and from the standpoint that I believe there’s a lot for me to learn from other men in terms of improving my own life experience. I’m not going to join your cult Rollo, but I do find your essays interesting and relevant, and most of the men commenting here to be very insightful and intelligent, and cool. I genuinely appreciate the feedback that I have gotten, as many of your commenters seem to get where I’m coming from. And it is helping me a lot. If what I have to offer guys is interesting and helpful then I’m glad, and if not, that’s ok too. But please, stop presuming you know what’s going on with me, or who I am. But feel free to tell me what you see.

    On another tangent…

    One of the reasons I have become so receptive to RP thinking is this guy I’ve been hanging out with the last 3 years. I’ll call him Johnson. This guy grew up with just about every disadvantage you can think of. Trailer trash. His life very Jerry Springer. He is now 38, bald, not very tall, a good 100 pounds overweight, but in a stocky way. Still, his belly is such that he wears suspenders, not a belt. He’s not at all handsome, he smokes, has stains on his teeth. And he has blown me away with his game. He has never looked at a PUA manual, nor has he ever heard the term red pill. But I have seen firsthand him chatting up a very attractive woman, a married woman, who is initially repulsed by him, but within 10 minutes I see the glitter in her eyes, as she imagines her panties sliding off. Not that anything actually happens, because he has a fiance and no realistic opportunity, but if he wanted to, it possibly would. He is gaming all the time, just because that’s who he is. I’ve never seen anything like it. A little background: He proposed to his first wife at the age of 19 on the first date because she gave such an awesome blowjob. He was in the Navy and when he returned from one of his multiple deployments, as he was driving into the apartment complex late at night, he saw his 3yo daughter wandering around in the parking lot in her diapers. He picks her up, goes into the apartment and finds his pregnant wife passed out on the sofa from drugs. He leaves her and takes his daughter, and without a lawyer, goes to court and gets full custody of his son – who is still in utero. At some point he figures out that the son is not his. No matter. The son is now 15 and he still doesn’t know. So he’s got two kids, and he marries a second time to a woman who has three kids. For 13 years they were married until he woke up to her trying to stab him in the neck with a glass shard. (I shit you not, fellas. Jerry Springer). He leaves her, but continues to consider her children as his own and has financially and otherwise continued to support them. I recently loaned him some money so he could hire the most aggressive attorney in town to pre-empt a charge by his ex-wife wife that he molested her daughter. Yeah, he’s a total hound dog, but that definitely did not happen. Johnson, who has still not completed his engineering degree, is a master at construction and remodeling, fixing appliances, electrical problems, and he does things with Excel I’ve never seen before, and I work with a bunch of Excel wonks. He’s a coworker, it’s a professional environment and most people dress pretty casual. But he shows up, most days, in a starched white shirt and tie and suspenders. Nobody else at work will hang out with him, because well, he’s so Jerry Springer, and they’re all so much better than that. Born under different circumstances Johnson would probably be an inventor because he’s constantly dreaming up these elaborate solutions to problems nobody realizes they have.

    So, fast forward to his current fiance: a little older than him, but blonde, very sexy, double D, bright, sweet, very likeable. They get together have a great time, he proposes, she accepts. She wants a Yukon, a soccer mom car. So they drive all over the state, to find exactly the one she wants, with the exact trim she wants. Because she really knows exactly what she wants. (lol!) He buys her a fully-loaded Yukon. But, then she decides well, she’s not really into him after all, so she dumps him. What does he do? He goes on a dating binge. 30 dates in 30 days. I have no doubt he banged at least 29 of them. Rotates a couple of women into his house, one a real hottie, the other ok but pretty cool. His ex-fiance gets jealous, and literally spends A FULL YEAR trying to get him back. Yes. Eventually he relents and allows her to come back. Kicks to the curb his current rotation. At this point of course, his ex who wants him back will do absolutely anything. What does he demand, from this woman, a Christian, a self-professed good girl, who would never even take off her bra when going to bed? Anal. He wants anal. He doesn’t really care about anal, but she is going to have to prove herself. She cried, because it hurt, but she did it, for him. Fast forward another 18 months and he could not get rid of this woman if he wanted to.

    So yeah, I have seen RP in action up close, and I do understand what guys are talking about. But if people think I can be shamed, ridiculed, bullied or manipulated into seeing the world exactly the way you (collectively) see it, you would be wrong about that. I suspect there are a gazillion men that could benefit from RP thinking, and it could really make a positive difference, but it will remain fairly marginal if you act like a cult. People learn in lots of different ways, but not many people will learn through shame and ridicule and peer pressure. Every persons life is a journey, and every man must find his own path. And men would do well to respect the path of other men.

  35. @Mitch

    Bully? Shame? Mitch once you marry, that’s it. She has the legal ability to put any bluff on your part regarding your alpha nads right in the pot to boil with the lobster and eat them both for dinner. The truth is if you were doing the pitching around there, it’d have a different setup. Maybe you should take a page out of “Johnson’s” playbook, chew it up and plug the hole in your “Soulmate Experience” raft.

    However, if you really think you’re not to be out done by “Johnson”, you might want to look up “Domain Dependence” and “Contextual Alpha” in the search function so you can see why telling yourself you’re “better” than “That Guy” is really just admitting he’d never have the same problem as you.

  36. @yollo:

    Bully? Shame? Mitch once you marry, that’s it. She has the legal ability to put any bluff on your part regarding your alpha nads right in the pot to boil with the lobster and eat them both for dinner

    What, do you think I’m fucking 12 years old? Seriously. Thanks for the advice.

  37. @Mitch

    “What, do you think I’m fucking 12 years old? Seriously. Thanks for the advice.”

    Don’t forget to take the advice in the second paragraph. It could be just as useful. Maybe smoke a cig while you do it for extra edge.

  38. TRP characterizes the nature of women as “harsh” and “ugly” and to me that is still pedastalization. They aren’t angels or demons…it’s just raw sexual economics.

    Hate the game, not the players.

    TBP, TPP, and TRP all feature men who still struggle with one fundamental problem: intellectual honesty when evaluating themselves. Pretty much in that order too.

    A purple pill man usually is a dude who is like….20%-30% through maybe, idk, the 5-8 years I’d say it takes to completely change yourself as a man. The first few years you see the most change because it’s mostly external surface-level stuff, and the beliefs are still getting solidified by the reference experiences thereafter.

    Anyway, it just seems like the process of tearing self and ego down to rebuild becomes too much. Plus, the prospect of forever being in the sexual marketplace and a life filled with neverending competition starts getting to them.

    So they start looking for a way out. They have some of the externals down, but the internals are in an intense battle for supremacy.

    The men start, like most others who come to the manosphere, with a default assumption that their SMV must be high based on self-assessment of traits they deem as attractive to the opposite sex. And then they get pissed when women fail to value those traits to the same extent.

    And you fall back into this annoyance during the journey. I know I still do sometimes.

    For TBP it’s generally observance of traditional courtship and high comfort skill, i.e. why don’t women go ga-ga for this? This is where they start and that’s when TRP helps.

    Maybe there’s a bit of improvement, maybe not, but sooner or later for TRP it’s generally being an “asshole,” “jerk,” and “cocky.” i.e. why aren’t all the women on my dick, I keep calling them bitches and saying rude shit?

    Then later on in some cases, when battle fatigue sets in….for TPP it’s generally the desire to “use these powers for good” i.e. ride off into the sunset with the NAWALT i.e. why is it whenever the slightest hint of this gets out, I become less attractive to my NAWALT? She must not be the real NAWALT? She must be craaaaazy..

    At bottom, women want a man who is competent at being himself. Here’s the real deal — if you’re just constantly conforming, you’re not gaining any experience with combating social pressure head-on. Or, you’re gaining negative practice in how to deal with social pressure.

    Like, if you took a nerdy dude who lives for SC2 and made him hang out with all jocks for two years and make sure he NEVER GIVES UP his SC2-loving identity (never conforms, never ‘shuts up’ when made fun of about it, etc.) he would probably, along the way, become super attractive to women. Why? Because he’s just going to learn how to handle social pressure and preserve his status.

    So this entire process is teaching you how to be you within the context of a social group —- how to keep your boundaries firm, how to advertise your specific identity competently, and how to socially protect and guard the women (or all the people, really) who decide to rally behind your banner.

    A purple piller essentially is saying “idk man, I don’t want to continue on in that process…it’s just too much, I’d rather use what little about being myself I’ve learned to just….go live out a dream given to me by someone else.”

  39. @ Mitch,

    “I suspect there are a gazillion men that could benefit from RP thinking, and it could really make a positive difference, but it will remain fairly marginal if you act like a cult. People learn in lots of different ways, but not many people will learn through shame and ridicule and peer pressure. Every persons life is a journey, and every man must find his own path. And men would do well to respect the path of other men.”

    Hey, glad to see you’re back (I was afraid you got on a plane). I see you got a whole post devoted to you – lol. Everybody finds their way here from different perspectives, experiences and for different reasons; and like Sentient said everybody here seeks something different from this site as well as other sites within the Manosphere. You see the food fights and in-fighting that goes on hear b/t different sub-factions. Sometimes there’s more clucking around here then a hen house – lol. It’s all good and you will do what you will do as a man and everyone here knows and respects that. However, if you post comments that are “off” you WILL get called out on them. It’s just the way everyone rolls here. You’re not gonna get a free pass and these comment threads are not a validation hug box. For every person who posts a comment there are x-number of “lurkers” seeking good solid actionable advice, so please keep that in mind. Replies to other peoples comments are not just for THAT person but for ALL of the men who read the comments.

    HABD (having a bad day) left a pretty lengthy comment from yesterday morning where he really broke shit down for you and gave you some good advice. He took the time out of his day to do that for you as opposed to what I did which was just key jockey and bloviate/pontificate – lol. Anyway, the point is, HABD and many others on this site offer their own unique perspectives and styles to help you connect the dots with you’re own situation. You came here seeking that. Remember?

    https://therationalmale.com/2011/10/26/whats-your-problem/

    I think you should give the above link a quick read if you haven’t already. You might gain a new perspective on why so many of the men here don’t let other men off the hook so easily on their misguided bullshit. BTW, the reason there are so many “lurkers” is because they know this – lol.

  40. @Mitch

    “Also, you totally did not get what my story about Johnson was about. Maybe read it again.”

    Sure I do. You were using your analysis of “Johnson’s” situation as proof of your “red Pill” “know-how”. Only to get this article made about you for some reason.

  41. @scray:

    So this entire process is teaching you how to be you within the context of a social group —- how to keep your boundaries firm, how to advertise your specific identity competently, and how to socially protect and guard the women….

    Totally down with that.

    A purple piller essentially is saying “idk man, I don’t want to continue on in that process…it’s just too much, I’d rather use what little about being myself I’ve learned to just….go live out a dream given to me by someone else.”

    I don’t know what a purple piller is, but If that’s the definition, it’s certainly not me.

  42. @yollo:

    Um, the article was about me. Or I should say ostensibly about me. It sort of created a parody of me, for the purposes of demonstrating The Truth.

    I wasn’t analyzing Johnson, I was telling his story as i understand it to illustrate the point that, yes, I’ve seen RP in action, but also that every man has his path and his own way of learning what he needs to learn. And other men should respect that. I certainly do not see myself as better than Johnson, and I don’t need to compare myself to him. I admire and respect him, and that’s why I’m his friend.

  43. Your story has too many red flags to count Mitch. Whether you can see it or not, the guys on TRM are trying to open your eyes to the fact that you are making yourself extremely vulnerable to this woman. You can’t honestly believe that citizenship, and financial support aren’t huge factors in her decisions. Also, she’s already trying to shame you over wanting to have sex when you meet up in Italy? Are you fucking kidding me? Do you think somehow she’ll get really horny for you after you’re married?
    Lots of guys have gone down the path you’re on, with bad results. Could you get the scenario you envision for your future? Maybe (doubt it), but the fact that you don’t acknowledge the very real possibility of a poor outcome is telling.

  44. @colbert:

    However, if you post comments that are “off” you WILL get called out on them. It’s just the way everyone rolls here. You’re not gonna get a free pass and these comment threads are not a validation hug box.

    I’m totally down with that, too. I think I saw HABD’s comments you’re talking about, and they were very helpful. I just have this beta thing I gotta go do on a daily basis! lol…

  45. @Mitch

    Putting it simply: It’s difficult to believe your claim that (1) you have read all of the Rational Male and (2) properly understood it, when so many of the actions you described you did (3) go against just about everything Rollo ever said and (4) Rollo and just about everyone on this blog are telling you so.

    It’s not a matter of “cults” and “beliefs”, it’s just a basic inconsistency. Rollo wrote you a letter saying “turn right” and you describe us how you (1) read several times the letter, (2) understood it completely, and then (3) turned left. If you had said you read it all and disagree with it all, then your actions would be consistent, but as it stands, your intellectual position doesn’t make sense.

  46. Been there, done that, got a woman, went totally blue pill over her, she starts making me wait for sex.

  47. @auvergnat:

    Putting it simply: It’s difficult to believe your claim that (1) you have read all of the Rational Male and (2) properly understood it, when so many of the actions you described you did (3) go against just about everything Rollo ever said and (4) Rollo and just about everyone on this blog are telling you so.

    Dude, this is exactly the circular thinking I’m talking about. I couldn’t possibly have read or properly understood Rollo’s essays, because otherwise I wouldn’t have done the things I did, . I wouldn’t have the mindset I have because Rollo’s essays are Truth. This is *absolutely* totalist, cultic thinking.

    Firstly, we should read each other a little more carefully. I did not claim to have read all of TRM. I did claim to have read ALL – as in every single one – of the First Year essays. And I did.

    Secondly, do not misconstrue my comments as an attempt to undermine Rollo’s essays or RP. Totally to the contrary. My comments are about engaging RP theory, and this is what critical thinking is about. And it seems that a blog entitled “The Rational Male” would encourage critical thinking. I could be wrong, tho.

    If I thought RP was bullshit, I wouldn’t be here.

  48. @ Mitch

    Like I said earlier in the other comment section, your interaction with the Russian unicorn has gone exactly as nature intended.

    She is looking for a Man, the best Man she can get ( Alpha ) and you are a Beta bucket full of red flags that are telling her she hasn’t found him yet!

    You have slipped into her frame with a comfort based beta provider game and yet wonder why you haven’t fucked!

    She is 44 and starting to worry if she has time to find her Alpha, so she sees you as a ticket to the US where she can continue her search while you’re out at work “utility regulating”. The universe makes sense.

    Meanwhile you come on here and throw a tantrum like a little girl because you didn’t get the affirmation you were looking for.

    Mitch ” I want a unicorn and not just any unicorn it’s got to be pink!”.

    This isn’t a CULT it’s a blog based on the real shared experiences of hundreds of thousands of men across the world that allows us to “connect the dots” and see the true nature of women and sexual dynamics as they really are , NOT how we would wish/believe them to be.

    You are not ready for this information, maybe you need to get Fucked over by your unicorn to be ready, your assertion that you were “99.9% sure she won’t fuck me over” so literally 1 in 1000 in your eyes, tells us all how naive you are, and for your own good we have called you out on your own bullshit ego investments.

    Your response is to call this a CULT.

    That’s quite telling coming from a Manchild like yourself.

  49. @Mitch

    OK I’m willing to believe you know and understand red pill theory. Then I’m curious to know how you answer to the specific comments that Rollo made. He just made an entire post to analyze your own personal situation (you lucky bastard!). What do you think of his specific tips? Do you think he’s wrong? that he doesn’t understand your situation clearly?

    For example, about you texting her that you love her, he has this to say:

    Texting you ‘love’ her and convincing yourself you do after no more than a week of in-person interaction is a major, jumbotron-scale signal that you are not only Beta and Blue Pill, but also you subscribe to a scarcity mentality.

    Now if you’re aware of red pill theory, you know he’s just paraphrasing it. What do you think of his comment?

  50. @Blaximus: I give you props for having going against the consensus. Your Frame is very solid.

    Mitch’s position regarding his intent to marry that woman had been universally panned EVEN BY OMGs. @Sentient for sure and @KFG even mentioned that to Mitch as Sentient is part of the OMG side of that debat:

    https://therationalmale.com/2016/10/07/environmental-stresses/comment-page-3/#comment-173037

    I wasn’t alone in being surprise at your “condoning” Mitch. Sentient was also surprised and here is your reply to him:

    https://therationalmale.com/2016/10/07/environmental-stresses/comment-page-3/#comment-172983

    In addition to an uncalled for swipe at YaReally at the end, includes this

    “Mitch is absolutely entitled to his understanding of RP, and to try to put it into practice. He is also absolutely entitled to try to figure out how to best proceed in life, to get what he wants out of life.

    He’s getting a heavy dose of advice here, and he seems to be listening. It’s one thing to say that Mitch needs to be careful and thoughtful, it’s quite another to say that he should fear and shy away from his wants.”

    Except Mitch didn’t (doesn’t?) understand RP as proven rather clearly by his posts. He is entitled to his misunderstanding of course, and he would get the consequences if he didn’t go away from his “wants”. Considering his “wants” were so thoroughly Blue Pill he actually SHOULD run the away from (so I guess in that you had it right, he shouldn’t just “shy away”).

    Sometimes the consensus does have it right. Fortunately Mitch was indeed listening, but when I saw your post I mentally facepalmed because at that time he was fairly entrenched in his opinion and sometimes a person in that situation will cling to even a single condoning message, particularly from someone with some authority on the subject as I usually consider you to be.

    To reply to your question:
    “Where’s the over eager support of marriage?”

    I’ll go over some bits of your initial reply to Mitch:

    “I tend to see both sides of the argument. Here and elsewhere in the sphere there is a very strong tendency to talk ” awalt ” to extremes, as if all women are irrational users and divorce papers that will spoil everything they touch, every single time, guaranteed.”

    You are downplaying the risk of divorce explicitly.

    This wasn’t even about the woman being or not being AWALT really, it was about Mitch being Blue Pill/Beta – as Rollo concludes in this new post.

    “The cure is worse than the disease.”

    If you really think that, you are at best Purple Pill yourself.
    I believe Blue Pill conditioning is a big cause of male suicides.

    “I don’t believe that men have to go outside the country to find women they can actually deal with as a man is supposed to deal with women, but ultimately the decision is up to the individual man, as it should be.

    I know men, some in my own family, that have ” imported ” women. Over the course of 20 or more years, only 1 has suffered because of it.”

    You were very explicitly supporting Mitch’s idea of “imported” women, and implicitly his intention of marrying one such import.

    “If you believe you are indeed informed and still wish to go forward, it doesn’t really matter what any other man thinks.”

    I agree this is is a true statement. But finishing with such a disclaimer doesn’t erase the rest of the post supporting Mitch’s BP ideals.

  51. @auvergnaut:

    If you had said you read it all and disagree with it all, then your actions would be consistent, but as it stands, your intellectual position doesn’t make sense.

    Black and white thinking. It is not at all odd that one might intellectually understand a concept(s), and then behave differently from what one understands about that concept. My guess is that if you really looked into it, you’d find that operating in your own life. For example, I intellectually understand (because there is a coherent, rational, even utilitarian reason) the Catholic church’s teaching about human sexuality. It doesn’t mean I act that out in my own life, tho. Why is that? My best guess is that, as one of God’s creatures I am an imperfect bundle of biological, psychologic imperatives that wants what it wants, and I’m really doing the best I can. What is rational and what we actually do are more often than not very different things.

  52. @Blaximus:
    here is a link to Mitch’s post that appeared before yours:
    https://therationalmale.com/2016/10/07/environmental-stresses/#comment-172847

    (there was another one which appeared about one hour before yours, which perhaps you had also read by then, but I think the one I link is the most relevant one)

    I think his telling others to fuck off and in particular this part
    “Red pill explains a lot of things really well, but certainly not the totality of the mystery that is between a man a woman in a marriage.”
    resonated with you and this is why I think your post:

    https://therationalmale.com/2016/10/07/environmental-stresses/comment-page-2/#comment-172892

    was over eager in supporting his position.

    I’m going to cold (warm?) read you as liking to support the scrappy underdog and being proud of going against the consensus. In this very particular context (as opposed to in society as a whole) the consensus was Red Pill and the underdog was Blue Pill: Mitch.

    You also have demonstrated in past posts during the OMG vs YG debates about (legal) marriage that you have at least part of your identity invested in believing in “the mystery (…) in a marriage” (using Mitch’s words here, not saying you would say it that way).

  53. @paydontplay:

    Meanwhile you come on here and throw a tantrum like a little girl because you didn’t get the affirmation you were looking for.

    Mitch ” I want a unicorn and not just any unicorn it’s got to be pink!”.

    That’s really what you see? Ok. That’s interesting…

  54. @auvernat:

    What do you think of his specific tips? Do you think he’s wrong? that he doesn’t understand your situation clearly?

    No, I don’t think the theory is wrong, not at all. Guys telling me what they *see* is useful feedback. But it doesn’t mean that guys actually know me, or my situation, and so therefore they are in any way qualified to diagnose and analyze me. Own what you see, because what you are seeing is totally informed by your own experience – the experience in your life, and what your perceive from reading about the experiences of other men. But you really can not presume that you *know* what is going on with another man. This is not helpful, is what I’m saying.

  55. @ Mitch

    “Knowing you or your situation”

    Doesn’t change the facts of how gender dynamics operate in 2016! So your point is ?

  56. @Mitch: thank you, I can see you have a good eye for talent. Is it your religious background that makes you an expert in orthodoxy?

  57. @playdontpay:

    Doesn’t change the facts of how gender dynamics operate in 2016! So your point is ?

    Not saying that it does. But every individual person brings an individual history to any given interaction. If it works for you at this point in your life to adhere to the idea that AWALT – are like exactly that – that’s cool. I don’t mean that in a disparaging way at all. You just shouldn’t insist that other men adhere to it as well, otherwise they’re in denial, a beta bitch, or whatever else you come up with. Is it your purpose to support and encourage other men, or to get them to conform to your way of thinking?

  58. @IAS:

    @Mitch: thank you, I can see you have a good eye for talent. Is it your religious background that makes you an expert in orthodoxy?

    that’s entirely possible.

  59. @Mitch

    OK so if I understand you right, you believe that Rollo and everyone criticizing you here don’t really understand your situation. Is that right?

    I just wanted to know how you think and I think I got it so I’ll leave you after requesting an answer to my last question. I’m curious to see how you justify your thinking on a specific example.

    For example, when you said you texted your girl that you loved her (even though you barely know her and if I understood well haven’t slept with her), Rollo commented by saying this:

    “Texting you ‘love’ her and convincing yourself you do after no more than a week of in-person interaction is a major, jumbotron-scale signal that you are not only Beta and Blue Pill, but also you subscribe to a scarcity mentality.”

    He also mentioned that this is the 1st of the 16 commandments of Poon, which basically define, along with the Iron Rules of Tomassi, the very core of red pill theory.

    How do you answer specifically to that? Do you think this is a pretty clear red pill concept that you firmly believe in but that your case is different and so it doesn’t apply? Or do you think it’s “more guidelines than a rule” and that everyone should be allowed to bend it to suit their own experience?

  60. @Mitch: there is a great deal of quality coaching going on here. How you respond to the coaching is indicative of your motivation level.

  61. @Sentient – I take your point re Trump and the lack of non-MSM filtered information available. Looking around me I see a few people saying “WTF what did he say that’s so terrible?” even if they wouldn’t vote for him (and the circles I hang out in, I would seriously be considered mentally deficient if I admitted to supporting Trump). Almost everyone I know assumes I’m voting for Clinton. I don’t even LIKE a lot of Trump’s policies and I concur with a lot of Blax says about him being a conman. But just the thought of voting for Clinton…no. Just can’t.

    So the so-called “Shy Trump” voter definitely exists. Will that be enough for Trump to win? I don’t know, but I certainly don’t think it’s going to be a rout in the way Nate Silver predicts.

    @Blaximus – so the porn thing is interesting wrt its impact on Game. I had a longer discussion about this in the comments a few months ago – I think with Forge or with Quixotic – can’t remember. Basically there’s a lot of evidence (yourbrainonporn.com etc) that porn artificially stimulates your brain and makes it difficult to respond to real women etc. But there’s also a lot of counter-evidence that for a lot of people it simply doesn’t matter. Seems inconclusive to me – depends a lot on each individual.

    @Scray – lol re SC2. I used to spend all my time on SC1 in college..a big part of the reason I didn’t get laid. Good thing I never got into SC2..

  62. @kfg,

    Yes, I agree that polls are a crap shoot. And to clarify, I’m not particularly stumping for either Mr. Trump or Mrs. Clinton, I’m just commenting on the (potential) phenomena.

    This is the one I was thinking about:

    http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/

    The reason I prefer it is because it breaks down the vote via the electoral college (85% v 14%), rather than the popular vote (49% v 42%). Also, as at the time of writing, it still has Utah going to Trump, so I must have been reading that from some other source (although I note that Arizona is now being given to Mrs. Clinton, albeit by a slight margin).

    For the purposes of this blog, it might be easier to focus on the public denunciations rather than the polls. Trump has obviously had issues with the Republican establishment for some time. For example, Barbara Bush made the comment several months ago that she didn’t think women should vote for him.

    However, I found it interesting that there were quite a few “defections” based entirely on the “pussy” comment (John McCain et al). I mean, whether you support him or not, it’s not like this kind of comment is coming out of left-field. By political standards, he’s been saying relatively unorthodox things for the entire campaign. You would think this would barely be newsworthy.

    Mr. Tomassi’s main thesis is that we live in a feminine primary society. I’m wondering how much of this phenomena is indicative of that, and how much is just political opportunism.

    For example, are the current GOP defectors doing so on principle (which would support Mr. Tomassi’s point), or is it simple political opportunism (i.e. they now think there is 0% chance he will win, and therefore want to distance themselves from him).

    Hunter S Thompson

  63. Taf Lyf: cool track. very cool track!

    Rollo: Thanks! I don’t know if you got some secret place you go to learn how to put things across very clearly (please steal me in onto the secret). Very incisive thank-you-very-much.

    So Mitch, there you have it. If it becomes necessary to have a rational, sensible, serene, amicable conversation with a woman about how she should give up the pussy? Heheheeeee… Or even that you are having a heated discussion about it? Heheheeeee…

    Desire cannot be reasoned out. And when it is there, it cannot be reasoned with. It will fuck you, literally. Before you can even say JR.

  64. @mitch

    I’m 49 myself

    A lot of the guys here are really working very hard to help.

    We do have other things to do.

    I suggest you head off on your own, get a bit of personal space and come back to this with a clear head before you make any rash decisions.

    Good luck.

  65. @Mitch

    You spent 9 month extricating yourself from a cult because of their totalist, circular-logic. Now you accuse TRM of being a cult suffering from totalist, circular logic. Plain logic dictates that you merely need to escape this new cult pronto, least you need to extricate yourself yet again.

    The smallest cult that exists in this world is the one-person cult. It’s the biggest battle we have to extricate ourselves from each day.

    Go do your thing with this Russian, learn what you will, then report back afterward. I see no reason for you to comment here prior to then.

  66. Go easy guys – we don’t actually want a man’s head to blow up so badly he does something stupid..

    He’s hurting.

  67. Mitch:

    “You continue to insist that I have not read your posts, though I’ve said twice that I have.”

    That’s not what he said. Besides, that’s not the point: even if you read his essays you certainly didn’t gain much from them.

    “Are you calling me a liar?”

    This is an adolescent remark. He did not say you were a liar.

    “Or are you not actually reading what I’m saying”

    Another adolescent remark. He is of course reading your remarks. They’re in the blog!

    “, but only seeing what reduces into your cosmology, or whatever it is. I’m just asking – because it’s one of the two.”

    “Just asking…” is very fem’ish.

    “I would agree with you and everything all the True Believers are saying. And to the extent that I don’t agree, is the extent that I’m either in denial or I haven’t actually read, and thought about, what you’ve written. There’s a circular logic here. Do you see it?”

    Nope. You’re still plugged in. That’s what I see.

    “The reason I see the circular logic underlying this presumption is because when I was 19 years old, I got sucked into a religious cult, where I dwelled for approximately 9 months.”

    Any man that gets “sucked into a cult” is to-the-point: beta. You did not get sucked into it, you Went into it. Don’t blame the cult leader. Blaming others is what women and feminized beta males do.

    “The process of extricating myself from said cult was understanding how it happened. Learning about Totalist thinking and how and why it works. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Jay_Lifton#Studies_of_thought_reform. Circular logic is a hallmark of Totalist thinking. You believe you are thinking critically, and seeing things as they really are, but in fact you are not.”

    Aw shucks. RedPill is Totalist in the end. Guess we’re all JUST Wrong. Says so in the Wiki. Thanks for setting us straight Mitch.

    “Anything that contradicts your internally coherent and consistent “frame” (frame is the perfect word in this context) is either ignored or distorted so that it can be explained within the context of the frame.”

    Bullshit. RedPill ignores virtually nothing and any distortions are caused by your rose colored glasses.

    “This is what I see in your post here. I notice several factual errors and misrepresentations in your analysis. … Trust me, you do not want to go there with me about denial. You have no idea who I am.”

    “You have no idea who I am” – is an ace-up-the-sleave women like to use when backed into a corner. Give your rationalization hamster a rest.

    “In comments some have wondered if I’m not just an elaborate troll. Ya’ll will have to decide that for yourselves,”

    You’re no troll. Just a garden variety beta.

    “I do not need validation from a random group of anonymous men. Really, I don’t. Validation is great, of course, and necessary for all people I think. But it is certainly not necessary for me to get it here.”

    You contradict yourself: you believe validation is necessary for all people, but then say it’s not necessary for yourself. And why is that, because you’re special? Blue pill “frame”.

    “I am not here to argue with RP theory, but to engage with it.”

    This comment makes little sense. If you engage with something you disagree with, you’ll inevitably end up arguing about it. I’m truly beginning to believe you’re a woman.

    “Not as a tourist. I’m sincerely interested, both from an intellectual standpoint and from the standpoint that I believe there’s a lot for me to learn from other men in terms of improving my own life experience.”

    START WITH THIS: swallow a bottle of red pills. And take it from myself and everyone else who’s been in LTRs, including marriage: AWALT.

    “I’m not going to join your cult Rollo,”

    OUCH!

    “but I do find your essays interesting and relevant,”

    Still addicted to cults, are we?

    “and most of the men commenting here to be very insightful and intelligent, and cool.”

    Doesn’t seem like you truly feel that way.

    “I genuinely appreciate the feedback that I have gotten, as many of your commenters seem to get where I’m coming from.”

    You don’t appreciate the comments. You’re in denial. You’re a fragile little gazelle and everyone’s trying to snap you out of your delusions thinking lions are cute and nice.

    “And it is helping me a lot.”

    No way in hell has it helped you. You’re going to get burned many times before you get it.

    “But please, stop presuming you know what’s going on with me, or who I am. But feel free to tell me what you see.”

    You’re a beta in denial. And you have the character of an adolescent hopeless romantic.

    “But if people think I can be shamed, ridiculed, bullied or manipulated into seeing the world exactly the way you (collectively) see it, you would be wrong about that.”

    Granted, there are areas that RedPill gets wrong IMO, at least, the basis/reasoning, but the recommended course of action is usually 100%. And there is a tendency to shame. But:

    a) in terms of basic RP Theory you’re definitely beta and going about things the wrong way;

    b) RedPill shaming is TOUGH LOVE; do you have a masculine father?

    Don’t take it personal. I shame my son all the time.

  68. @Mitch: “I don’t know what a purple piller is, but If that’s the definition, it’s certainly not me.”

    Right. You did not come here to live out the dream. You came here to sell us the dream, the Cult of Ukrainian Women. Apparently in the belief that we here are looking for that particular pink unicorn that you described in the pitch.

    A pitch Identical to the astroturf Ukrainian Bride agencies use. As if we didn’t know about that particular Cult and its workings.

    You cannot possibly have read Year One, understood it on even a theoretical basis, and have expected that we would respond, “Wow, dude! Sounds awesome. Tell us more.”

    Your claims, your defenses of those claims and your Johnson example are incongruent with that understanding, and with each other.

  69. “But you really can not presume that you *know* what is going on with another man.”

    “You just don’t understand,” said every sixteen year old girl to her mother who was once a sixteen year old girl who said “You just don’t understand” to her mother.

  70. @Rollo

    At 49 it has taken me about 5 years to fully digest TRP and get through all the stages.

    Really im not that worried anymore about my ongoing relations with women as I can get what I want from them now I understand the system.

    I see what everyone is trying to do here and it’s admirable; but my priority is my son who is 13 and constantly bombarded by BP messages from an entirely biased system.

    And – I’m in England where I don’t think it’s quite as bad as the US.

    I really would like to see more focus on how we guide the next generation but I’m not at all sure how we manage this without kicking their arses so hard with a blunt instrument that they go into their man caves and flip their old man the bird.

    Thank you as ever…

  71. @Palmasailor – I think Rollo has said that his next book will have a section on Red Pill Parenting – also there are a few posts about parenting on this blog which you may have read but are probably a good place to start (including the comments)

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