Sexual Zoning

sex_zone

Höllenhund brought up an interesting thought a few weeks ago:

This reminds me of something I wanted to ask here in general. The general narrative about MGTOW in the ‘sphere is that they are “avoiding women”. A more general narrative pushed in the mainstream media by Zimbardo, Hymowitz, Milo and other blue/purple pill journalists is that a growing number of young men are avoiding women.

What does “avoiding women” precisely mean in the current socio-cultural context in the West? The word “avoid” entails some sort of active, deliberate, protective measure. My problem with that is that the “avoidance of women”, or a breakaway from women doesn’t look like that at all in practice today, because the social context of male-female interaction has changed completely in the last 2-3 decades.

This is something our pal Novaseeker has described before. In the bygone Western social system, young people were expected to regularly interact with one another in controlled, regulated environments, in a way that fostered productive, long-term, monogamous, assortative relationships. This was a sort of “holistic” milieu, so to speak, where young people treated one another as potential future partners, sexual and otherwise, in a socially regulated manner, in all cases when they were permitted to interact. This was even the norm in workplaces where both men and women were present. The average man found a girlfriend through his extended family or social circle, because families and social circles were normally large.

What we have today is the complete opposite: “sexual zoning”. Some mixed-sex environments, like the workplace, schools and campuses, are made completely asexual – sterile, so to speak. No sexualized interactions are permitted to take place. This is demanded by law and expected by society. In such environments, you’re supposed to treat members of the opposite sex strictly as colleagues or professionals, non-sexual beings. (Hot men are allowed to get away with more, of course, but that’s another issue.) Other mixed-sex environments, on the other hand, like nightclubs, are expected to be full-on sexual. Everybody there knows that all interactions entail the future possibility of casual sex. It’s basically a meat market. You’re expected to hit on girls, and girls expect to be hit on by attractive men. Socializing in these environments requires action, engagement. If you want to find a partner, either just for sex or something more, you have to go there, you have to have Game etc.

In other words, avoidance of women in the old days was an anti-social act of disengagement that was frowned upon. Today, avoidance of women merely means that you’re not expending excess energy and time to do certain things. It’s an “action” with few or no social repercussions – you won’t be socially ostracized or something. But technically it’s not an action. You’re basically “avoiding” women by not hitting the clubs on Saturday night. You’re avoiding them through simple inaction. You can have a full-time job, or go to college, have a social circle, have hobbies, buddies etc., basically a normie life, and still “avoid” women.

I thought this was an interesting observation because there is a stark contradiction in how these sexual zones are presented to men by women. From an old books perspective, men are still expected to be the initiators. It is incumbent upon men to be the sex that approaches and expresses intimate interest in women, and men who don’t, or who fail to build themselves into acceptable mates for women are shamed as being perpetual adolescents or just “giving up.” Our feminine-primary social mandate still promotes the expectation that men will prepare for, and initiate with, women.

However, from a new books perspective men are, as Höllenhund illustrates, expected to know their place in respect to whatever sexual zone they find themselves in, as well as having an understanding of how they are perceived in the SMP. So, in an asexual zone such as a college campus or the workplace, men are expected to know their SMV and act or not act accordingly. Men not meeting or exceeding what would make for an optimized Hypergamy with women are expected not to initiate or approach. In fact, this expected understanding extends to sexual zones and fosters the avoidance Höllenhund talks about here.

For all of the handwringing from feminine-primary gender pundits about men ‘dropping out’ of life or the SMP, it is this contradiction in atmosphere that promotes the avoidance. Hypergamy, being the prime directive of westernized societies, is figuratively best served when women are in complete and unilateral control of sexual selection. Thus, we see laws and social dictates installed to encourage men to self-select themselves out of the process and make this selection easier for women. Men will be shamed for not initiating and not approaching, but simultaneously be held accountable for as much as hate crimes if they step outside what they are expected to know are their appropriate sexual zones.

Why Millennials Might Be Having Less Sex Than Their Parents

Recently there’s been a spate of articles all attempting to explain why millennials aren’t getting after it in an age when it’s never been easier to hook up. Try as they will, nearly all of the explanations fail to account for how sexual zoning has affected the sexual marketplace today. Millennials have the ‘hook up generation’ reputation, but statistically they’re not doing much fucking.

Noah Patterson, 18, likes to sit in front of several screens simultaneously: a work project, a YouTube clip, a video game. To shut it all down for a date or even a one-night stand seems like a waste. “For an average date, you’re going to spend at least two hours, and in that two hours I won’t be doing something I enjoy,” he said.

It’s not that he doesn’t like women. “I enjoy their companionship, but it’s not a significant part of life,” said Patterson, a Web designer in Bellingham, Washington.

He has never had sex, although he likes porn. “I’d rather be watching YouTube videos and making money.” Sex, he said, is “not going to be something people ask you for on your résumé.”

One aspect that these largely millennial writers themselves seem oblivious to is the complexities of sexual zones that shift constantly for guys. In 2016 hooking up is easy, we’ve got Red Pill awareness and we have instantaneous communication, but what we don’t have are clearly defined sexual zones. Put a guy whose social intelligence is sub par into the wrong zone and it’s understandable that he has better things to occupy himself with that he ‘enjoys’.

This is a common refrain from MGTOWs. It’s usually some variation of  “why should I waste my time trying to untangle some girl’s head just to put myself at risk of a sexual harassment or rape accusation?”

Fred Flange had this comment a few weeks ago:

Co-sign, and this “soft MGTOW” observation ties in nicely with the WashPost’s “no sex please we’re collegiate” article. MGTOW is now socially subsidized and easy to implement: just do nothing! At college, don’t engage in class, or even better, “attend” the lectures on-line. Say no more in class or lab than you must, then leave. Start no convos, you won’t be dragged into any. All of this goes for cubicle workers: in the lunchroom, stare at your phone, or eat at your desk, or if you can, get outside but go alone. No feelings caught, no feelings hurt. Everybody gets nothing, therefore everybody wins.

Eventually you can learn the fine art of disappearance in urban settings: yes you occupy space, but other than someone bumping into you, it is possible to go anywhere without your registering with anyone in the vicinity, not even cops. You can switch it on and off like a light.

One possible corollary to look for: see if the “bros before homes” shaming begins to die down. It should. Because before that you patriamalarkey-preaching Tumblr-inas insisted you wanted that cheesy-bro to go? He’s GONE! Soft MGTOW is the mandated social paradigm, outside of “safe social zones” like public streets, malls, clubs, etc. plus in some workplaces and colleges it’s law. You’re going to complain about men obeying the law?

There’s also no shortage of articles decrying the absence of boys and young men these days too. The frequent bugbear in these always point to guys ‘dropping out’ and playing X-Box all day. From America’s Lost Boys:

Young men, significantly more so than young women, are stuck in life. Research released in May from the Pew Center documented a historic demographic shift: American men aged 18-30 are now statistically more likely to be living with their parents than with a romantic partner. This trend is significant, for one simple reason: Twenty- and thirtysomething men who are living at home, working part-time or not at all, are unlikely to be preparing for marriage. Hurst’s research says that these men are single, unoccupied, and fine with that—because their happiness doesn’t depend on whether they are growing up and living life.

Now, granted, this article presumes men’s adulthood ought to be measured by his capacity to get involved with a woman, support a family and maintain a steady job. It’s very hard for writers who tackle this topic to pull their heads out of the old books reasonings. Thus, the go-to answer to the question of ‘why do guys drop out?’ is video games. It’s far easier to goof on men as a whole if they can be made to look juvenile, lazy or stupid to the point men not knowing what’s good for them.

It would take a real effort to tackle the larger reasons as to why men drop out, and men like Samuel James (article author) would be forced to acknowledge the disincentives for men to participate in what his old books reasonings tell him is some mutually beneficial arrangement. Those disincentives don’t paint women in a very flattering light, so it’s much easier to dismiss them as garden variety misogyny.

The drop out generation are content with their lot in life because they’ve accepted the realities of a social order that debases men and manhood to being appliances to better serve women’s imperatives. And the risks of investing themselves in a relationship or finding the inner will to become better men for the sake of “growing up” are significant when the rules of engagement and the acceptable sexual zones are constantly changing.

The Damage Done By ‘Mattress Girl’

“Even in less extreme situations, young men are more skeptical of women’s ability or propensity to consent to sex, which some women on campus consider demeaning.

“I find that men are more and more interested in ensuring that I’m consenting before sex, which would seem like a good thing,” Columbia student Dylan Hunzeker said. “But sometimes I don’t necessarily feel that way. Especially when I have to answer a man’s question: ‘are you sure you’re not too drunk?’ Or ‘you want to have sex with me?’ In a sense, it’s annoying and debilitating to be constantly questioned about whether or not I have agency and am a sexual human being.”

“Men are scared of women on campus now, and fear breeds anger and prejudice. Women are frustrated by men, which inspires a lack of desire to collaborate for solutions.”

I would argue that a large majority of men accused of sexual harassment or even just suspected of impropriety are men who’ve found themselves in an environment they believed was an acceptable sexual zone. We are fast approaching a time when all zones will be so arbitrary and ambiguous that every environment with sexual potential will be avoided. This will have the effect of putting women into unilateral control of their own Hypergamy. It will be a state of Sadie Hawkins world – only women will make approaches on men and only those who match her Hypergamous ideal, an ideal fostered and reinforced by a steady diet of social media ego inflation.

It’s ironic that authors bemoaning the drop out generation of men never acknowledge the other side of the disincentives for men – those generated by a feminine-primary social narrative – the generation of women who remain unmarried well into their middle age. When this is explored, once again, it’s the result of the juvenile, ridiculous men that same narrative has created for itself.

506 comments

  1. It’s simple–there is nothing that any woman could do for me in the bedroom that would be as good as what she could to do me in the courtroom would be bad. Like that old Jim Croche song, “Five short minutes of lovin’ got me twenty long years in jail”, only now it doesn’t help if a woman is legally of age.

  2. A couple of points.

    One: for the most part , male-female interactions throughout the course of the species has been transactional. Man offers protection/food/tribal authority/ money , and woman offers sex . Whether sex or not happens depends on his resources and her willingness to accept the deal, as it were.

    The Patriarchial societies tried to organize this into a covert marketplace. Sure it was couched in terms of romance: but the “Old Set of Books” rules were all structured to ensure the man’s resources or potential thereof met the female family’s overall standards – and on the male family’s side their goals were to verify the girls ability to raise and conceive kids .

    Bye bye patriarchy. Now the market is deregulated. Much like what happened with Airlines in the 70s, no more premium service and set expectations. Hello rent seeking and dodgy games on both sides . Nowadays with the decline of male social and financial power (see college graduation rates), women are trying to sell their sexual goods….and finding no bidders. All the betas with the money to take on the “resources” role are already taken, and the remainder of broke dudes just don’t have the cash or statues to play the game.

    I’m reminded of a former plate who recently moved out of my area. She was seeing her boss up here before packing bags and moving across the country with him.Boss was married with two kids, and rather then chase the multitudes of thirsty guys available today she worked on this married dude for months. Eventually she wore him down and convinced him to leave his wife, and move across the country as her new betabux.

    Meanwhile she was seeing me on the side.
    That’s the way the game is now; either she chases the highest value guy in her social circle, or she doesn’t bother. The “other guys” do not exist, which means whether they go their own way or not is irrelevant to the Feminist Imperative.

    Two :

    No sexualized interactions are permitted to take place. This is demanded by law and expected by society. In such environments, you’re supposed to treat members of the opposite sex strictly as colleagues or professionals, non-sexual beings. ”

    I have to disagree. In every office of decent size, there’s a minority of guys fucking the women. There’s a subclass of male in the modern matriarchy who gets to fuck every broad in the company/ office/ campus. Exactly who this guy(s) is depends on the political and social makeup of the area in question, and whether or not said dude has the game to take advantage of things. There’s bluepill Vice Presidents who could bang every broad in sight if they had the game to do it, and there’s mailroom studs WITH the game and looks to close any woman in the company despite being dead broke with baby momma bills. If you have game you win, and if you don’t you’re toast.

    The core point -sex with women today is a luxury product like a Ferrari. Smart guys dont necessarily buy a Ferrari to keep: they’re fragile and expensive to maintain plus worthless in day to day traffic.

    Rather -smart guys buy track time and a weekend lease, hoon the shit outta that car, then hand the maintenance time bomb back in. The loser is the moron stuck changing tires and timing chains on an Italian sports car because he bought it “to keep”.*

    *note that I don’t actually have a problem with Ferraris. I’m merely using them as a way to get a point across.

  3. As fucked up as this possibility sounds, I would not be surprised if the future of the SMP involves so many game unaware men that they realize the only way to get sex from a woman is to rape them. These game unaware men would be the result of the feminist agenda shaming men and taunting them for not trying. “Damned if you do, damned if you don’t”. Thus the agenda for avoiding a non-existent rape culture may actually manifest a real rape culture.

    Again, I hope this is not the case and the SMP stabilizes.

  4. The old set of rules was rather clear, with a micro level of ambiguity. Going to an age-appropriate social function from the teen years on was pretty clear, one was expected to behave in a certain way and that was that. Sneaking off into the bushes at the church social had a different set of rules, but still some. It was considered all part of providing a pool of eligible men and women to each other for purposes of pairing off. In the main it worked, with the tail end of the distribution becoming “spinsters” or “confirmed bachelors” as the case may be.

    In many Western cultures young women were “presented” to the community at the age of 16, with an intent to marry them off in the next couple of years. However all these cultural structures were built on top of clear sex roles, each with responsibilities. And at the end of the dance(s), men and women paired off more or less appropriately in their SMV, which meant that most women didn’t even get a whiff of Alpha Male HB9, except maybe at some athletic event or movie.

    With the mass movement of women into higher education in the late 50’s and the 60’s that arrived just as hormonal birth control and penicillin made sexual promiscuity low cost (in the short term) suddenly a lot of ordinary girls in the 4, 5, 6 SMV had a shot – even if only for one night – at a hot football playing HB8 or 9. Hey, five minutes of alpha…

    So in order for the maximal number of women to have their turn on the Alpha carousel, the sex rules had to be rewritten to be much less clear, and much more ambiguous. The old set of rules favored male sexuality, with its clear demarcation lines. The new set of rules, with unending ambiguity that can change even after the fact, favors female sexuality.

    The old set of rules meant that a solid plurality of women got the security they craved, but they paid for it by winding up with boring Betas. This chained the Alpha men down for the most part with one woman which no doubt chafed them and also bothered the women who could have gotten their Alpha pony ride, but didn’t because monogamy. Call this a system that benefited the 80% at the expense of the 20%.

    The new set of rules means that a solid plurality of women get a shot at some Alpha, but at the considerable cost of having no man at all after a certain age. This doesn’t trouble the Alpha men, least of all the Naturals, and doesn’t bother the higher SMV women that much because the option of soft harems works for them. It is absolutely driving many average men out of the SMP entirely, and it’s doing the same to average women as well. This system is fun for the 20% and is becoming a form of torture for the 80%.

    Because the enforcement mechanisms of the new, ambiguous, sexual marketplace favor the few and harm the many. Shy women who won’t hit the party world are harmed because that’s where more and more meetups take place – hence the popularity of match services such as OK Cupid, the various religous Mingle sites, etc. because they enable women to pick and choose from a position of perceived safety. Those women who are not disposed to use Tindr. Those women who just aren’t all that adventurous. Women who might have been tempted to maybe go out with Bob from Accounting 25 years ago now won’t get the chance, because Bob’s been beaten over the head with HR’s Sexual Harassment Is Evil lectures so long he’s frankly not going to risk talking to any woman except in the most vague and polite of ways.

    Ordinary men swim in a world that is so toxic towards them the temptation to just drop out into other pursuits is very strong. Natural alphas and women don’t get this, of course, but that doesn’t change the reality that is all around us.

    In anticipation of some of the usual objections: yeah, it varies with geography and industry and income level. So Not All (Whatever) Are Like That if it makes some people’s feelz better.

    But the facts of things like “Affirmative Consent” which can be withdrawn hours, days, maybe even longer after the fact are out there. It’s mandated in some East Coast and all California higher education settings, so it’s going to be normed in business in 10 years or so, and in the wider culture not long afterwards.

    The trouble with the whole Sadie Hawkins approach is obvious: 80% of the women will desire 20% of the men. That points to harems one way or another, and that in turn points to an ever less stable civilization for reasons that ought be so obvious I won’t bother to explain them.

    Sound posting, Rollo.

  5. I still have the feeling it is all just a big shit test. They send all possible signals saying you are unwelcome to hit on them, it´s unacceptable in such and such environment and if you do it, you are evil. If you buy it and believe you are unwelcome, it means you don´t have the balls to break the rules to get what you want and therefore… well, you really are unwelcome.

  6. XD
    I have to disagree. In every office of decent size, there’s a minority of guys fucking the women. There’s a subclass of male in the modern matriarchy who gets to fuck every broad in the company/ office/ campus.

    The rules exist, and they can be and are used to keep the majority of men in line, often with punishments that can be downright Draconian. The fact that 10% of the men in a company are In like Flynn doesn’t change this, it merely highlights the fact that the new rules are ambiguous in application and sometimes even in regulation.

    It’s the soft harem model. I think we can expect to see it more and more in the future.

  7. I still have the feeling it is all just a big shit test.

    Yes, that’s correct. The entire culture is held hostage to women’s feelwings.

  8. ROLLO

    I know you are on to something here.

    For years we have had this discussion,where is the motivation?
    I have always put it down to,no future,negative media,bad economy,the war,the green movement,political correctness and the educational curriculum.

    But the bottom line is the best motivation for a young man is sex,it is why I got a job,bought a car,got an apartment.Fact is almost everything productive I have done was about sex,and then that really ramped up when I became a father.

    All this seems so harmless,just drops of water,then it is overfull and there is a flood.

  9. 80% of women wanting 20% of the men and 80% of men wanting 20% of the women. Presumably the top 20% men will only want to be with the top 20% females. That leaves the 80% going W/MGTOW. Some of the 80% females will be side plates for sure for the 20% males. The 80% guys just spin plates to from the 80% chicks, as the 20%, because hypergamy, won’t bother with them (unless exploited as BB providers/orbiters).

    The Sadie Hawkins approach will just make females even more proactive and promiscuous in order to out-compete each other. Men don’t have the same need to have kids that women do, so men being chased don’t have a need to get married. In the old order a women being chased would give in to one and start a family. This cycle, especially with Vasagel, will lead to population decline – welcome Rat Utopia.

  10. >>Women are frustrated by men, which inspires a lack of desire to collaborate for solutions.”

    Sounds like hamstering for the women. Women have a lack of desire to collaborate with men for a solution. Full…Stop. They must be conquered and defeated or they will destroy you. Collaborating with them is a fatal mistake so many married men make.

  11. Yes, that’s correct. The entire culture is held hostage to women’s feelwings.

    That’s because men are too cowardly to stand up to women and say enough we will tolerate no more but they don’t. Feminism is one big shit test.

  12. They must be conquered and defeated or they will destroy you.

    Excellent comment. Calling you “blue pill” is like calling a big guy “tiny”. You are more aware than most are.

  13. “Thus, we see laws and social dictates installed to encourage men to self-select themselves out of the process and make this selection easier for women.”

    Thank you for the article

  14. 80% of women wanting 20% of the men

    True. Big data from OK Cupid supports this.

    and 80% of men wanting 20% of the women.

    No evidence for this. Big data from OK Cupid contradicts it. OKCupid rankings run from 1 to 5, and the data shows male attraction is uniform across that space.

    Don’t make the mistake of assuming that male sexual attraction and female sexual attraction are in any way interchangeable, they are not. Because cats are not dogs.

  15. the 80% of women wanting 20% of men… is misleading. They want commitment from the 20%… not a pump and dump.

  16. A man looks at average woman and says, “Meh. She’s OK I guess. Kinda average.”

    A woman looks at average man and says, “He’s short. He’s poor. He’s ugly. He’s boring. He doesn’t have a nice car, he . . . ”

    In short, for women there is effectively no average. You’re either hot, or you’re roadkill.

  17. Joseph Blaugh

    . Feminism is one big shit test.

    Amen… and the seeds of its destruction already sown… because NO woman is happy when she gets exactly what she thinks she wants… RP 101.

    Now if only the guys would realize this, stop cowering and begin to life again…

  18. Insightful as always. Interesting times and difficult navigation for the lads. However, MTGOW has a completely different vibe for men who have swallowed the red at a ripe age. For us, it is not the changing/confusing zones or the ease of avoidance that modern society has created. Those are problems for the young man. It is the harsh realization that the many traits of hypergamy do not render the woman attractive enough to warrant the investment.

  19. Rollo, I really don’t get your talk of need for sexual zoning. Perhaps this thinking is something that is still “in the works”. For example there are defined sexual zones in corporate cultures in the west. In general you are not really allowed to date/be sexual/casually see anyone at your company unless there is explicit continual permission given by the woman. period. end. of. story. Which is a pretty good definition of a zone I would think. If you had been through a few HR investigations you might have a better perspective about defined zones already existing.

    The corporate west is very interesting in it’s dynamic. Men in power can flaunt rules like the HR policies at will due to their status. The poor newly hired betas are afraid to even talk to a female at work.
    I mentor Junior staff in my job. I help the men get laid and women not to fall for my more handsome and married mid level managers. With millennials its a full time job deprogramming college gelding. And deprogramming the female 20something daddy issues.

    The Alpha boys just slay in the corporate west today.
    The higher Beta boys (had 1-2 girlfriends in college and know what it feels to get laid) can be saved
    The rest of the boys are just hopeless.
    The girls are another story.

    For example high Betas that work in my division have to be TOLD that anyone not working for our company, a partner or, vendor are in fact fair game to hit on. And actually depending on the vendor relationship even most vendors are fair game. I actually had one guy say he can’t date a girl at the corner coffee shop DUE TO HR POLICIES!!!! Yeah have fun with being a monk kid.

    Another thing about millennials and why they are not having sex. It’s because High Schools and Colleges ARE SCARING THESE KIDS TO DEATH with the adverse consequences of sex. After 4-8 years of Marxist indoctrination you can bet these kids are terrified of the sex act.

    This is why you have the explosion of girls who are very sexually active (blow multiple dudes during a week) but are technically virgins. Because these girls need the outlet but School Sex ED was all about STDs pregnancy and all the other nightmare scenarios. The rate of transmission in the West of AIDS via hetero sex is infinitesimally low and some of even these low percentage cases can be explained by the use of shared needles and hetero annal sex. But if you talk with your average high school in a very wealthy area they really think that AIDS is just one f*ck away always.

    Which is interesting when these good girls who are very inexperienced sexually come into an environment where the boys they dated in college are gone and they mostly have older men around that regard them as fresh meat. In this environment do they find the eligible Alpha? Hell no they can’t get him he’s got a conga line at his cube for all the late 20s early 30s recent divorcees or hopeful divorcees. Do they date the Beta guys that look at them yearningly? Nope they have illicit affairs with one of my handsomer married managers / supervisors. Every. single. time. It’s like a corporate version of wild kingdom out there.

    These days I can’t do it. But I fully agree with Adult Swim’s no women policy.

    http://www.polygon.com/2016/10/4/13156398/adult-swim-female-writers

  20. I think what is not realized is that many men will not find their way in the restricted zoning we see today.

    The zoning, of course, always permits a small percentage of men who are the sexual winners to pursue normally regardless of zone — we are, in effect, zoneless. And that is what we are trying to teach other men to become — become anti-fragile when it comes to sexual zoning. That doesn’t mean you bang your way through the office, of course … it just means that you absolutely could, and could do it without major consequences — provided you weren’t stupid and allowed a woman to catch feelings and then try to get you fired for harassment … yes, I’ve seen that happen to hot men at the office, so there is always that risk, but there’s more guys in that category who skate out scot-free. TRP is about becoming a guy who can do that regularly, no “luck” required.

    The broader issue, however, is that, as we know, most guys won’t do this, and most of them won’t risk being tossed from work or school, either, so we’re going to see much more “soft MGTOW” in the years ahead. Very few men stepping up in any kind of environment that isn’t explicitly “permitted” (like parties, bars, clubs), and in those situations finding themselves hopelessly outcompeted by men with Game. Most of these won’t learn Game, most will retreat, not due to MGTOW ideology (although some will find that, too, via the internet), but de facto due to having bad options, in their own minds, and not wanting to make the changes to join the small minority of men in the winner’s circle.

    There isn’t any way out of this one, folks, on a systemic level. With women inundating the workforce, there were going to inevitably be rules put in place to prevent the sea of workplace betas from “harassing” them (i.e., showing unwanted interest). That was inevitable — otherwise how are you going to ensure sanity in a dual-sex workplace. Sure, the minority of us with Game aren’t subject to the same regime, de facto (we are de jure, and that can bite if you’re careless), but at the same time we can’t be stupid enough to understand that it really *is* necessary to keep the betas in their place in the workplace so that both the betas and the women can be productive.

  21. the 80% of women wanting 20% of men… is misleading. They want commitment from the 20%… not a pump and dump.

    LOL. No, they want, period. You know that yourself, as you are part of the 20%, dude.

    This article is 4 years old but it is still valid.

    https://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/your-looks-and-online-dating/

    Don’t even have to read all the words if there’s not enough time.
    Just take a quick look at the graphs, the whole story is there.

  22. Rugby — Yep. Interesting doc from the ilo.

    AR — Yeah, I saw that a few months ago, too. This is the money quote, right at the end: ““Women are more forgiven because it’s the struggle of being a certain type of powerful woman,” she says. “You were a different person when you began the relationship. And he’s just not.” ”

    Yep. Men and our needs are irrelevant, women are heroes regardless of what they choose to do, and we are to be judged based on what we do, because reasons. Basically FI 101.

    Don’t bitch about this, guys. Realize it, accept it, work with it, and be the guy who wins despite this crock of crap that we live in today.

  23. As someone who does well at social circle game, you do have to realize the threats posed by white knights and betas as well as “feminists” about “inappropriate” conduct—which is nothing more than gaming and asking women out.

    They get “offended”…but it’s two-fold. You have to be able to game properly and calibrate. I’ve found that while the neg and teasing work 90% of the time, not all women “get it”…So I have to calibrate more.

    There’s a lot at stake here with women in any situation. The fact they get “offended” is not always a bad thing. That initial resistance is a shit-test.

    Calibration is key….”you look edgy” is my new go-to neg…it immediately gets the woman thinking without being “offended”…

    Text game is also a factor of this. Like many men who’ve been “taught” to be super cautious and become betas…many women too are “taught” to be bitchy, brassy and defensive….to screen out the time-wasters. The problem with that is they often screen out the alphas and then have to back-track and apologize for their behavior.

    Calibration is key here. Know when to push and when to say “ok, thanks, bye.”

  24. Really great essay, Rollo.

    I was talking to a male relative of mine about this recently; traditionally, societies create ritualistic activities for young men and women to meet for the purpose of choosing a mate. The idea is that through these mechanism they naturally find a good person to marry by early adulthood.

    Western society today has done away with all of this There are no opportunities for the purpose of marriage. College used to be the place you met your spouse; girls would joke they were going to get their M.R.S. degree. That is no longer the case. I feel like I was attending college on the tail end of that societal change in which women en masse really started to embrace the YOLO lifestyle and had no plans to marry anytime soon.

    After college a man has to be very proactive to meet women within a sexual/romantic context, whereas back in the day a bachelor in his late twenties and thirties was someone who had been proactive in avoiding marriage.

    I’ve mentioned this somewhat at Dalrock’s, but I think we’re reaching a point where current state coercion will be changed because of how men have responded to them. For now, men can opt out and avoid the entire marriage, family, divorce court system and all the controls of the FI simply by not being proactive, by not doing anything. The current setup is intended to control men who are proactive in this regard.

    The next step will be to introduce legal mechanisms that target the inactive men such as the “bros without homes” and force them to act in order to avoid some kind of consequence. Not sure what specifically, but the requirement will be how the FI through the state will coerce men into fulfilling their prescribed role. This new mechanism could be a tax or a legal thing or something.

    I have a feeling we’ll find out in the next few years.

  25. This new mechanism could be a tax or a legal thing or something.

    Already in place. Between subsidies, transfers and so on which are not equally distributed in the least between men and women, taxes (which men pay more of due to the false “wage gap” of men working more than women) flow from men to women.

    I agree we will see more of this, but it will remain subtle. Need to keep the masses of non-aware men anaesthetized by ESPN and Xbone and so on. But, the process is also well, well underway. It’s a staple of the FI — resource transfer from men to women. Historically this was done mostly in marriage and inheritance. With marriage folding like a cheap suit in most of the population, resource transfer is being moved to other areas outside of marriage, disguised mind you but still there — the resource transfer must occur, otherwise women can’t raise kids. That is, it either comes from men in marriages or men not in marriages, but it will come from men regardless.

  26. “College used to be the place you met your spouse . . .”

    In 1940 only about 5% of the population went to college. By 1970 that had risen to about 15%.

    Most people met their spouses at social dances, church or through friends/family.

  27. In 1940 only about 5% of the population went to college. By 1970 that had risen to about 15%.

    Most people met their spouses at social dances, church or through friends/family.

    Exactly. What has changed is that the college class, which has expanded, has largely abandoned college as a means of spouse hunting. That is new. It was historically a smaller group than it is now, for certain, but college as spouse hunting is dead now, and that is new — well, new-ish — it was already dying when I was in college in the 80s, but there were still quite a few engaged folks at graduation in my HYS college in the late 80s — not happening now.

  28. The broader issue, however, is that, as we know, most guys won’t do this, and most of them won’t risk being tossed from work or school, either, so we’re going to see much more “soft MGTOW” in the years ahead. Very few men stepping up in any kind of environment that isn’t explicitly “permitted” (like parties, bars, clubs), and in those situations finding themselves hopelessly outcompeted by men with Game. Most of these won’t learn Game, most will retreat, not due to MGTOW ideology (although some will find that, too, via the internet), but de facto due to having bad options, in their own minds, and not wanting to make the changes to join the small minority of men in the winner’s circle.

    Just to add another thought onto this …

    Porn, and its ubiquity, feeds into this and amplifies it, without question. On the one hand guys are getting zoned, while on the other, they have strong drives due to testosterone. Porn is the outlet, and it sates the drive just enough to enable men to neuter their sexual response in de-sexed zones on a maintenance, on-going basis — it takes enough of the edge off of the sex drive such that these guys are able to obey the FI zoning more easily.

    Hence a major reason why the FI, despite all of its lip service against porn, really hasn’t done much at all in the way of concrete actions to eliminate it or even restrict it meaningfully — it’s a critical safety valve on which the integrity of the entire contemporary social edifice depends. Men are complicit in this, obviously, but the benefits to the FI social system are quite clear once you step back and look.

  29. @ Novaseeker

    I’m not sure that porn helps to keep a lid on anything, because the Betas and Omegas that rely on it for an escape would be Betas and Omegas regardless of porn’s availability.

    Saying it helps to keep a lid on anything would be implying that Betas and Omegas would do anything differently if porn weren’t available, and I don’t think that’s the case.

    Unless doing something differently means awkwardly hitting on women, and demonstrating unwanted interest (i.e. running bad Game) in “zoned” areas.

    To which I’d say, so what? The men that would do that weren’t going to get laid in the first place because their Game sucks, so it’s a moot point. If you run tight enough Game you can get away with murder, and if your Game sucks you don’t get shit at best, and at worst you get in some deep shit.

    At some point this argument becomes circular, because men who are fazed by sexual “zoning” are the same men who would not get laid even if they were allowed to hit on women anyway.

  30. I get what you are saying. The perspective is that the system is what it is, and the men in question would either be not getting laid without porn or not getting laid with porn, so what is the difference — they ain’t getting laid either way.

    The difference is that there would be many more bucks against the system if we didn’t have the porn we have now. A greater percentage of these guys would “try more”, in other words, and, failing, would be more pissed than today where current porn encourages retreat.

    Porn is anaesthesia, and the best part is that the guys who are “on it” don’t agree that they are being aneasthetized. It doesn’t mean that porn is the reason that these guys can’t get laid, but the effect is that men are relatively numbed, and that numbing creates much less impetus to get laid, which in turn creates much less resistance to an obviously anti-human (anti-male-sex-drive) system, which serves to support it.

    If you have more unsuccessful men sexually who are bucking against the system, it creates more pressure against the system. Even if they don’t get laid. In fact, if they don’t get laid it creates that much more pressure. If you have a safety valve like porn, then that angst-laden energy dissipates, which, because it detracts from energy that would/could otherwise be undermining the system, effectively supports the system.

    Note by “undermining the system”, I don’t mean a political revolution — I mean a wide-enough push back that serves to move the social needle. What I mean is a more conscious bucking back, which is undermined by the aneasthesia of porn, which demotivates sexually unsuccessful men from caring enough about their lack of success to care that much about it, especially in the wake of their latest porn-induced orgasm. Porn use, in its current form, serves the cuck/FI in a huge way.

  31. What does ‘edgy’ mean or trying to imply in the neg? IOW what are you going to say as a reply when they ask ‘what do you mean’?

  32. Re: Edgy
    You just grin, you make her fill in the blanks. The point is to destabilize her id a little and get her on her back foot for a minute. Don’t be deterministic about it, leave things open ended, make her hamster do the work.

  33. We are fast approaching a time when all zones will be so arbitrary and ambiguous that every environment with sexual potential will be avoided. This will have the effect of putting women into unilateral control of their own Hypergamy.

    That’s… a really unstable society. Things aren’t going to end well if the average guy doesn’t see any reason to do anything but play video games and take drugs all day.

  34. @Agent P “Edgy” is a great word…it means whatever the girl wants it to.

    I said: “Do you work in the arts? You have that edgy look…”

    She smiled, was all curious.

  35. Top post, always enjoy Hollenhund and Nova’s take on things, very erudite.

    I recently watched an animal documentary on zoos and animal behaviour and there was an interesting line that took me by surprise.

    The zoo keeper mentioned that he had to introduce the male animal (if memory serves me correctly I think it was a large bird of some sort) to socialise with females for mating, otherwise past a certain age of non-socialisation the male becomes incapable of mating. Past a certain age of non female interaction the male literally doesn’t know how to mate and doesn’t want to mate.

    The implication being that mating is socialised from an early age.

    For me this was a startling revelation as a long term MGTOWer.

    I’ve recently landed a low SMV post Waller several years older than me, she literally chased me hard and wore me down and I put no effort into the interaction.

    Here’s the hang up, I literally have no desire for sex, if she initiates I comply but the whole interaction feels as though I am experiencing it in the third person. I’m doing what I think I am supposed to do but there is literally no spontaneous desire on my behalf, I’m playing a charade.

    I hope my brain becomes rewired to the new stimuli but I’m not certain it will.

    We are creating sexually unsocialised men who past a certain age don’t even have a need for sex. It’s interesting that other cultures (Turkish, Latin, Arab etc.) have a tradition of making men of boys by introducing them to prostitutes at an early age. I guess there is method to the madness, otherwise you get the zoo scenario where the birds won’t mate.

  36. I work in a hospital. Nurses, fat and unattractive, everywhere. Only 5% of the women are HB 5+. I live in the upper Midwest, thus the pool a women is skewed to the ugly. I get this.

    I’m not too surprised that the single guys aren’t that attracted to the land whales and dumpy, bitchy, expectant twats. Pedestalizing hot chicks is understandable. The last ten years has ballooned the BMI of women to unrecognizable libido-killing levels.

    The women are depressed too. The female hospital staff have given up trying to look good. They see their SMV declining, are told to be o.k. with their body image, but wonder why their pre-wall skankiness doesn’t work as it had in the past. Lord of all creation, please strike down the creator of two-size too small yoga pants! These women can’t even find a clueless BB medical student that’ll pump ‘n dump em. The women are physically, mentally intolerable.

    If the 28 y.o. RN laments her dimmed romantic prospects, I tell them “Maybe you should lower you expectations.” That’s a lay-up laugh in the OR.

    Another thank you to sentient, HABD, and others. Yesterday I tell my 16 y.o. that we should finish watching Fight Club while I do some woodworking. The lady says she doesn’t approve of the themes there, tsk-tsk. On y’alls advice I calmly reply, “We are going to watch the movie. It may be today or another, but it will be watched.” That was it. She sniffed, but by evening we were playing strip karaoke (my suggestion), she blowing me on and off for an hour, me tying her up again, prone position, feeding her rum and cokes, and now sticking my fingers in her ass when fucking her. A total good girl-bad girl dynamic.

    This is the woman who volunteers gardening services to the nunnery and is member of the Confraternity of the Most Holy Mother Mary.

    I’m worried I might run out of ideas or pull her into dark shit by accident by accommodating her passions. Hands around neck rings her bell. Asphyxiation…I probably should avoid that, heh.

    I have an idea to play act a blind date with her. I wrote general guidelines to play along by with the ability to improvise. She needs to be in the right mood for that, so I told her “I got something good for you but can’t tell you til you’re ready.” She liked that.

    It goes on and on. High-fives around!

  37. So that graph from the dating website data proves the Pareto principle.

    Women consider 80% of men to be below average in looks, this confirms my belief that the top 20% of men are not top tier men or alphas. I would estimate this group to be the top 5% with the next 5% being lesser alphas and the following 10% being greater betas.

    The remaining 80% are the invisibles that are only used as utilities for provisioning and most of these men will never experience genuine raw female desire. They are the men women “settle for” and secretly hate as it demonstrates their personal shortcomings in being unable to gain commitment from a top 5-10% man. Even greater betas can suffer from this female disenchantment as despite being in the top 20% they are viewed as only just above average.

    Chad thundercock the elite the male 9+ men in the eyes of women I’d estimate to be the top 2-3% max.

    Being top 20% is no longer enough if you want to live like a man in demand lives, you have to aim for that top 10% in today’s open hypergamy SMP.

    I did a test and put a headshot on hot or not and received a rating of 5.9/10 (I’m 48 and short greying hair btw) so I thought this was not too bad considering many of the voters would be younger chicks.

    I repeated this with a shirtless photo and received a rating of 7.3, I was quite happy with that considering my age, I lift 4 times a week and eat quite cleanly but have a weakness for cold beer! So I’m 6ft 2 230-235lbs but my body fat is usually around 18%. I would say that physically I’m in the top 5% for my age group and in the top 10% overall but facially maybe just slightly above average ( masculine not pretty boy type).

    So where does that leave me in today’s SMP?

    My lifetime “body count” is around 120 consisting of tons of 6’s and 7’s, about 15 8’s and a couple of 9’s and one 9.5 Brazilian 17 year old when I was 26 ( oh the memories).

    120 probably sounds a lot to most men but if you break it down, I lost my v card at 15 to a 19 year old 8 who thought I was 18! See I had natural game lol. ) so I have been sexually active for 33 years and married for only 6 of them so that’s an average of 3 women per year ( hardly Don Juan territory).

    The ex wife was an Italian Hb 8 property millionaires who had done a topless calendar ( for attention she didn’t need the money) she had a fan site with hundreds of guys on it ( she left the computer on for me to discover it, see girls use dread game too ).

    At 48 i own my 2bed apartment and car with no debt and have restructured my work for less hours so I only earn about 40k/year, so I’m definatly not “sugar daddy” material.

    I currently have a main plate who has just turned 31 she is only a 6.5 but our sex life is incredible there is a chemistry between us that far exceeds her looks. I see her once a week.

    My second plate is a 46 year old milf with fake tits/lips who does the whole gym, Botox ,eats clean and rarely drinks thing and has a great body I’d put her at Hb 7.5 despite the her age. I see her once sometimes twice a week as she lives closer and has more opportunity than main plate.

    I have a long distance plate in Italy who is 44 year old ex fitness model and Beuty pageant winner who is hb8, I will only see her when I visit Italy to see my son around 4 times a year.

    So I guess I’m not doing to bad for an older man and being red pill has been a game changer these last two years.

    But am I where I want to be? No I would estimate my relative success makes me a greater beta/low end alpha , but at my age I certainly can’t go out and pull 20 something Hb 8’s every weekend (not even close).

    I do well with the over 30 attractive milf crowd who mainly are bored marrieds or single mums and that’s ok I know my limitations! I can’t compete with jacked 20 year old chads for hot 25 year old social media princesses, that’s just reality and lack of sufficient resources to play the game at that level.

    I don’t consider myself to be a top tier man in the eyes of the women I really want, but in the older milf/cougar crowd then I guess I am, I can absolutely crush it with women my ie age but so few of them are attractive enough to make it a worthwhile endeavour.

    I think men need to understand just how tough the SMP has become these last two decades and where they need to improve to be able to compete. They need to drop all this just be yourself and the right (post wall ex Cc rider) girl will come along bullshit to the kerb and accept the new sexual landscape as it is, and do what it takes to compete or they will lead unhappy unfulfilled lives.

    I see plenty of virgins in the future, it’s just that 90% of them will be men.

    The Fi has implemented sexual zoning to protect women from the unwanted attentions of the invisible betas who they don’t even see as sexual beings!

    They want you to accept your role as a utility provider for post wall women who couldn’t snag an alpha for commitment and you should “man up” and accept their CC riding past and be grateful to either be a cuckold to raise her ex alphas kids or be a sperm donor ATM machine for a few years until she can divorce you and hop back on the train to cougarville.

    When women are accused of being slutty in college etc they will usually reply with something like “everybody else was doing it too!” When really it was just the frat/jocks/ chads getting all the action.
    If this doesn’t make it sink in that the 80% of ” below average” men are invisible to women as sexual options I don’t know what will.

  38. @yareally

    I would really want your input here.

    I am doing cold approaches regularly. I usually go direct because my looks is better than an average guy and the girls are more receptive not to mention the fact , i don’t like taking a longer route here in India as the alone time i get is very short due to less frequent male-female interactions normally. So anything I say after going direct, usually means I am flirting and can be taken to that effect while i talk to girls doing cold approaches.

    But these days, I have started going to parties i know from social circles and i feel unable to do anything (will freeze up not knowing what to say at times)since going direct will be harmful if the girl isn’t interested and decides to spill beans. I am a new guy to the scene after having worked for months to enter the scene. Just don’t want to ruin reputation in the beginning itself.

    2 Questions

    1)I want to spike BT but is teasing and roleplaying the only way to do ? Any other ways that can be used to spike BT ?

    2) What exactly constitutes flirting? I have read about it from internet and I just want you to explain it a bit. I am more of a technical and analytical guy, and I want to know what exactly flirting means ? Is it just the eye contact, teasing,role playing ? What are the other things/actions/words patterns that will be assumed to be called flirting ?

    I have read what you have written in the archive by searching for keyword flirt but I couldnot get it right in terms of understanding flirting in a technical sense.

    I am confused about the whole thing because like i said , i want to calibrate my intentions while doing in social circle and knowing what exactly flirting involves will help me massively in that endeavour.

    You are the most analytical guy i know who won’t scold me for harping on such minute detail and being confused about it. Thanks in advance.

  39. Playdontpay

    Glad you are out there somewhat happy, doing your thing.

    But am I where I want to be? No I would estimate my relative success makes me a greater beta/low end alpha , but at my age I certainly can’t go out and pull 20 something Hb 8’s every weekend (not even close).

    This though is a completely limiting belief. I am 48, HABD the same or thereabouts… If this is something you want, work on your game. The exact dynamics you speak about with the 90% make age and frame that much more attractive.

    But you have to do the work.

    good luck…

  40. –I loved the Ferrari analogy way up top.

    –I’m always surprised with the comments about porn. I can’t believe it is often spoken about as if it’s some kind of ‘close enough’ substitute for the real thing or some kind of long-term answer.

    –AND A HUGE THANK YOU TO “EH INTELLECT”

    “I work in a hospital. Nurses, fat and unattractive, everywhere. Only 5% of the women are HB 5+.”

    “The last ten years has ballooned the BMI of women to unrecognizable libido-killing levels.”

    I admire everyone’s eloquence and the very deep reasoning and outlining of the SMP/Game/Mgtow etc. but Occam’s Razor has me at; THEY ARE FAT AS FUCK.

  41. EHIntellect

    Another thank you to sentient, HABD, and others. Yesterday I tell my 16 y.o. that we should finish watching Fight Club while I do some woodworking. The lady says she doesn’t approve of the themes there, tsk-tsk. On y’alls advice I calmly reply, “We are going to watch the movie. It may be today or another, but it will be watched.” That was it. She sniffed, but by evening we were playing strip karaoke (my suggestion), she blowing me on and off for an hour

    Way to go. For the lurkers, see how simple it is to push back? Pushing back creates attraction… and it is attraction that keeps hypergamy in check… and divorce raping at a distance…

    The sharp eyed will also note that she did not go to her secret FB account and tell all of her girlfriends and family that Ehintellect is a horrible bully keeping her down…

    High five back at ya!

  42. @Sentient

    “But you have to do the work.”

    Of course you’re right. I’m not arguing. But imagine a world where women had some pressure to “do the work” too and maintain some physical dignity by…going for walks…cutting down to a half-pound of sugar a day from 3 pounds? 85% can’t even do that. It gets degrading. I don’t blame young men for just latching onto activities in life that at least allow them luxury of numbness.

  43. Kaminsky

    I don’t blame young men for just latching onto activities in life that at least allow them luxury of numbness.

    I don’t either, if they are happy. But a funny thing happens to women when there is a real shortage of men…

  44. Think you should’ve left the font the previous size.

    This will have the effect of putting women into unilateral control of their own Hypergamy.,

    It may require women to turn sadie hawkins, but I don’t think they will. That would require them to face rejection. Women can’t stand that.
    I can see things turning into distinctive sexual zones. You want to meet somebody, or try to develop something, you have to go only to certain places, like the clubs. But there won’t be enough places, club or otherwise, to accommodate. I can see a rise in the number of organized events coming because nobody knows where you go to meet somebody.
    I think you’ll especially here it from women, which you kinda always have. Where do you go to meet a guy, because the guys, who are all around, aren’t bothering with meeting women where they see them.

  45. Hey Rollo, I really like the last 5 posts. There are different somehow….and i like it.

    Once a man has really swallowed the RedPill and has accepted the truth about women and the societal climate, it is clear that women nowadays are only good for pump and dump. And a increasing number of women arent even good for that.

    It has been mentioned many times in here, that a man needs a real and worthy incentive to be the “Work Horse”.
    It’s becoming clearer and clearer, that they are no satisfactory incentives any longer!

    The Post of Blue Pill Professor said it all.

    ” They must be conquered and defeated or they will destroy you. Collaborating with them is a fatal mistake so many married men make. ”

    That’s the ESSENCE !!

    Let it be Game, RP, PUA or anything else. A man must conquer or get conquered.

    These men who are opting out arent losers, wimps or fools. In fact these are words women use to shame men to make them comply.
    We all know that here.

    These men have understood, that there arent benefits any longer to have a woman in their life besides pump and dump, of course.

    Simply cost and benefit thinking !!!

  46. Today is the most important day of my life.

    It will be lived and maybe I’ll get to fail at something new again.

  47. @ XD:

    ” The core point -sex with women today is a luxury product like a Ferrari. Smart guys dont necessarily buy a Ferrari to keep: they’re fragile and expensive to maintain plus worthless in day to day traffic.

    Rather -smart guys buy track time and a weekend lease, hoon the shit outta that car, then hand the maintenance time bomb back in. The loser is the moron stuck changing tires and timing chains on an Italian sports car because he bought it “to keep”…”

    Lol…a very nice example !!

  48. @ sentient

    I’m sure you are right I do need to improve my game, whatever game is exactly?

    I have been reading Rollo for about 3.5 years and lifting hard for the last two, I have no problems passing shit tests and I do cold approach, I go out to bars in my city most weekends during the summer months and usually approach 2-3 women with intent and a few more just for banter. During Winter months I go out less and tend to stay local so far fewer opportunities.

    I have fully swallowed the red pill it took me about 3 years to fully internalise it, but in my opinion the red pill isn’t “game” it mainly teaches you the reality of the sexual marketplace, the real mature of women and how not to fuck things up with a woman who shows initial interest from the get go.

    I’m much better at talking to women now and building attraction through confidence and knowing what they are really looking for, but walking into a bar at 48 and being able to pull a hot 25 year old who has hot jacked guys her own age all over her, that doesn’t seem realistic at the moment.

    I know i’m missing something can you recommend any good “game resources”?

    I’m UK based so I don’t know how much difference that makes, I don’t see ANY men my age out at bars or clubs with hot 25 year old hb8’s , the only man I know that has works as a bouncer at a strip club he’s 42 and his girl is 23 and Hb 8. I look good for my age and am in good shape but I still don’t feel this is something I can do unless I have the resources to play sugar daddy game?

    I had a short fling last year with a hb7 24 year old who was in my city for a wedding, she was with 2 male friends her own age and so no shaming from the girls about the old guy etc , but me pulling in this age range is definatly the exception not the rule.

    Maybe I just need to believe it’s possible and really implement DGAF but I don’t really see any examples around me to make me believe it’s a viable option going forward.

    I mean I read about scribblerg and a 28 year old hb9 and he’s 54 so I guess it’s possible.

    Maybe I self limit myself by only approaching 20 something hotties if they give me serious IOI’s ( the 24 year old came over sat on my knee and said hi lol) but I can’t expect that to happen so often.

    I’m confident in my red pill frame but I guess I’m lacking in the game/PUA skill set or I would be seeing better results with the women I’d really like to be with instead of the milf/single mum cougar set.

    So any pointers for game improvement blogs would be appreciated.

  49. Playdon’tPay

    I know i’m missing something can you recommend any good “game resources”?

    Heh Yareallyarchive.com is a good start, there is a list of the newbie references RSD PIMP, Mystery Method, etc.

    What you are missing is the structure of attraction and how to trigger it… the conscious understanding of it in real time. all easily obtained and works if you practice it.

    Think of game as the language of female seduction, a verbal and physical language which is bounded by Red Pill truths of evobio/psych…

    So where you are now you understand some of the language, but not yet fluent, missing syntax, idioms, dialect etc.

    should click for you quickly…

  50. Play

    Maybe I self limit myself by only approaching 20 something hotties if they give me serious IOI’s ( the 24 year old came over sat on my knee and said hi lol) but I can’t expect that to happen so often.

    Yes you are limiting yourself, and your limiting beliefs of what is possible are negatively affecting your confidence and subcoms… beyond missing the structure of attraction…

    Permission to be awesome GRANTED!

  51. Play

    Good place to start, wala posted this the other day. Good 1 hour overview of the model. Then looks of the 6 or so Mystery seminars online for detail, and the book of course.

  52. Playdontpay
    Maybe I self limit myself by only approaching 20 something hotties if they give me serious IOI’s ( the 24 year old came over sat on my knee and said hi lol) but I can’t expect that to happen so often.

    Sentient and YaReally and Blaximus can all point out in a different way how you are limiting yourself by waiting for IOI’s.

    Look at it this way: if you are in the club or pub and a woman is there even remotely dolled up, her presence is an IOI just by itself. You already know how to do cold approach.

    So, approach.

  53. Play

    Here is a link to my first game focused pick up. I wrote it up several years after it happened and broke out some of the key points in game terms and examples of creating attraction, social dynamics, forcing opens, body language/posture, preselection, jealousy plots, dominance, kino, roll offs/takeaways etc.

    https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2015/06/11/friendzoning-girls-as-a-pickup-strategy/#comment-677814

    watch the Mystery video first, then go over the FR with that in mind. It should all start to click for you and guide your quest for knowledge.

  54. @ Novaseeker, Johnycomelately

    I spent all of my *formative years* binging on porn instead of having sex with actual girls.

    Porn, intentionally or not, absolutely affects the brains of men, ESPECIALLY developing boys. This is unprecedented in history. High speed Internet porn offers a level of addictiveness in voyeuristic sexual behavior that was never available before in history.

    Do porn addicted, incel men really have the capacity to gauge what they “want” if they’ve only gone on porn and never banged a hot chick in their entire life? Can a man really say he chooses to go on porn out of preference when he hasn’t even experienced Gaming and banging women IRL?

    I’d say they don’t. But porn makes it so fucking easy to not give as much of a shit. But it goes far beyond that: it’s an actual addiction, which causes physical changes in the brain that are extremely significant.

    I’m pretty firmly of the opinion that if Beta/Omega men are serious about changing themselves they need to quit porn. It goes beyond a simple distraction; it’s literally an addiction that causes physical changes in your brain and every time you use it you’re cementing those changes and making it much harder for yourself to WANT to run Game, or improve your life in any way.

    Basically you flood your brain with dopamine spikes, which makes it shut down its sensitivity to dopamine, and reduce the density of dopamine receptors. Dopamine is the “go get it” neurotransmitter. It makes you feel excited about doing shit.

    The fact that the spike is from beating your penis while looking at thousands of women banging other dudes only makes it worse, because sexual satisfaction comes from actually having sex. There’s a reason that it was torture for me to only have porn as an outlet for 12 years and a reason I never want to go back to that.

    So on one hand, you could say fuck anyone that tells you how to live, and just binge on porn and fast food and videogames all day.

    On the other hand, you could say you’re a slave to the things you “enjoy,” which are keeping you in an enslaved state of dopamine resistance and malaise. Would you REALLY prefer to have your whole life go by without sex, without creating or doing anything you’re extremely proud of and satisfied with, without putting yourself out there and making a mark on the world?

    Or are you just in a Brave New World enslaved state of addiction to creature comforts? Like the “vacation pills” they take in that book?

    Are you really making your choices, or are you in denial? Every man has to decide that for himself. At the end of the day no one gives a shit.

    The solution is to take ownership of everything you do. If you realize you feel uncomfortable taking ownership because you don’t like what you’re doing, and you’re not happy with it, then there’s your answer.

  55. @ sentient, ar

    I only wait for IOI’s with the 20 something hb8+ girls, It’s not a confidence issue, it’s not wanting to come across as “eeww creepy old guy” really I suppose I should just implement IDGAF and be congruent with it.

    I guess I’m guilty of going for the “lower hanging fruit” of 35-45 year old still attractive milf/cougar types where I have a proven track record and real DGAF attitude because I know “success ” is replicable in this demographic.

    I guess I was hoping internalising the red pill and having solid frame would be enough, and it works! My success with women who have initial attraction to me has skyrocketed as they do believe they are dealing with an alpha.

    For example the 44 year old Italian ex fitness model that I dated on my last Italy trip said ” I can see that you are used to getting your own way with women” . That was good to hear, and a sign of the progress I’ve made.

    I guess I’m looking for the tools to progress with the women who are initially a bit ” meh” when they look at me and just not fucking things up is not enough because their initial interest levels are lower ie normally the hotter younger chicks with masses of options .

    Will look at the links provided. Thanks in advance.

  56. I only wait for IOI’s with the 20 something hb8+ girls, It’s not a confidence issue, it’s not wanting to come across as “eeww creepy old guy” really I suppose I should just implement IDGAF and be congruent with it.

    If you have doubts, or think of yourself as “creepy old guy” then you will project that. If you take the approach that RSD and Blaximus and YaReally and Sentient all have a variation of: self-amusement, confidence, bringing value / adding value to the situation…then age is not much of a factor.
    That Mystery vid breaks it down, MM would suggest you approach someone next to the 20-something first, DHV and let her be drawn to you.

    Sentient or YaReally or habd or scray can all break this down into much finer pieces / steps.

    I guess I’m guilty of going for the “lower hanging fruit” of 35-45 year old still attractive milf/cougar types where I have a proven track record and real DGAF attitude because I know “success ” is replicable in this demographic.

    Looks like you have a comfort-zone mindset to me, but Sentient can surely analyze it better.

  57. Play

    “” I can see that you are used to getting your own way with women” .”

    Golden… and a 22YO will say the same kind of things to you… seriously. You are catnip for them at your age and a strong frame.

    I posted last month about bouncing a 20 something stripper I met in a bar. can’t find it, Rollo the site is hard to search the comments? She said something to me like “the way you were talking about all the places you’ve been to. it was so nonchalant. That was cool” while we were holding hands and she was curled up to me in the cab.

    Believe in your value. And yes you WILL get shit tested about your age. That is just a sign of attraction and an opportunity to pass it… One girl I picked up on the street and brought to a bar was holding my face and stroking the crows feet at the side of my eye and saying “soooo how old are you?” in a coy way (she was 26) I just said “it’s not the years it’s the miles” a go to line… Also will say “I’m a thousand. I’m a vampire” and “That’s so racist!” which makes no sense but cracks them up…

    The thing about being older is you have real experiences… so your DHV stories are not just stories you made up, they are true and they are felt as authentic by women. especially if you just matter of factly go into them, not in a needy boastful way. This combined with takeaways, rolls offs and qualifying them is pure attraction juice…

  58. Still, ya gotta do as you will on your own terms if you are your own mental point of origin. My concern about such posts is that it’s confirmatory to MGTOWs and incels an lower SMV guys, like they can feel righteous in their victimhood.

    Ditto for the hackneyed SMP talk in the comments. I mean, you haven’t learned that you can tilt women’s mating selection criteria to your favor regardless of how attractive you are, well you haven’t been listening at all. To be here and claiming “all the mean womynz just fuck all the hawt guys and no matter what good guy i am those whores will just ride Chad’s cock” is to announce you have no grasp on what’s being discussed here in the first place.

  59. The thing is Play they are JUST GIRLS. They never grow up. Those 35-45 YO’s are still as girly inside as the 18YOs… they still just want to have fun, have feelz, are sexual etc. The same things you do with them work on 20’s girls, but you need to give yourself permission to act like you are deserving of them. More than deserving that you expect that they are into you and you are filtering them out… looking to pick a peach…

    There is a game saying to game like you are 25 no matter what your age…

  60. what you must avoid at all cost Play is being judgmental (discerning and qualifying/disqualifying is fine, but no moral judgment) and acting paternal… giving them life lessons and advice like you were their dad.

    It is very easy to do because they will lap it up and you feel like you are building comfort and rapport… and you are but you are killing attraction as well. Avoid the life lessons talk. And make sure you sexualize early in the conversation, easy via innuendo and for me I am a great believer in early confident boyfriend posture kino… Immediately separates you from FZ/BB guys…

  61. @ ar

    Regarding the “comfort zone” mentality you don’t need to get anyone else to analyse it you are 100% correct.

    I guess because I’m doing better than all my friends my age and have good plates that take care of my needs, I don’t need to leave my comfort zone, we are not as hypergamous as women, if we are being taken care of and drama is at a minimum we just roll with it.

    I’ve said it before I just see women as for “entertainment purposes only” now I won’t remarry and am not really interested in an LTR, but I can’t help but feeling that a 25year old hb8 would be even more entertaining and no doubt some young arm candy would boost my shallow male ego.

    I just feel like I’m missing out but things are OK so that has stopped me from improving from where I’m at and stagnation is a dangerous place to be.

    I just need to get on with it!

  62. the workplace, schools and campuses, are made completely asexual

    This is why the wise man carves out a spot in one of the few places which aren’t asexual – like performing at a location in a club or such. This is one of several reasons I started a band as I got older – first was that since I was getting older, meeting they type of women I prefer to bed was becoming more and more work, and more and more of those women were looking for something long-term and wanted to hit the breaks on slutting it up, in favor of restricting sexual access to a man they saw as “provider material”. That type of behavior needed to be short-circuited. Thus a band was the perfect solution for a man – that and performing at typical vacation spots or other limited time spots. Women at those are looking for short-term hook-ups and that is all, that also opens the types of women, from single to married.

    I probably have sex with more young women now, at 50+ then I did when I was nearer their age, as well as having access to married women looking to feel attractive with no strings attached. So the key is to understand women, and market yourself accordingly.

    Of course having several businesses means that meeting women at work is out as I am in charge of them, so since I’m not named “Clinton” I avoid those women like the plague, and to be honest the women I meet in my hobby are hotter, and much easier to bed – as we both know why they come back-stage after a performance. I also have three women that are on long-term access – they know it’s only for the moment, and have no claims on me, just as I have no claims on them, they get the advantages of free vacations and shows, and I get access to women on a schedule to meet my needs. It works for everyone – and they are all under 25, by design. Women will enjoy men that they have no intention for anything long term when they are under 25, but around that age they start realizing they may be “over-playing” their hand and start to look for a sucker to settle-down with. I like to be “the fun older guy” rather than anything long-term so tend to replace women as they approach the 25 mark.

    Unfortunately, it is getting harder and harder to punt on the women as they get toward 25, as they start to up their game. Two of the three I see long term have started to actively recruit younger women to our bed – when are are on vacation together. That gives the advantage of long-term access to sex, as well, as access to younger women. So expect things to continue to evolve as men find ways to benefit themselves and women react to the environment they find themselves in. Woman are flexible creatures – and access to sex is their only real trump card…. So they will find new ways to play that hand as necessary.

  63. @ scrib

    I think of sexual “zoning” the same way I think of friend “zoning”: men ultimately do it to themselves by accepting it.

    I’ll never forget going to my dad ONCE for advice about a girl. There was a hot girl that worked at a supermarket I went to a lot. I asked him what I should do about it and he just shut me down saying “You can’t just approach random girls. Is she your friend? Do you know her? What the hell are you going to say? Forget about it. That’s not realistic. You can’t just talk to girls or ask them out like that when you don’t even know them.”

    ^^ Shit like that doesn’t help. That fucked me up big time. I didn’t have anyone to tell me otherwise and I still have that residual feeling like I have no “right” to approach women. That I’m crossing some line in the sand. This is all limbic level shit, of course. And social conditioning like that ensures Betas for generations to come that will be subservient to women when they need it most — when they hit the Wall. You’re not allowed to chat up the hottie at the supermarket so just wait your turn until the nice girl magically comes along when you’re 30 and shack up with her and have kids like you’re supposed to, like she *deserves.*

    Zones do “exist,” in the sense that they’re arbitrarily created and imposed. Men only need to be aware of this, and that it’s bullshit, in order to move forward.

    The proper response is not to feel victimized, like “poor Beta/Omega me, those women are fucking my shit up and it isn’t fair.”

    But to realize that it’s all bullshit, and you only get into a “zone” by allowing yourself to be there, whether it’s a “friendzone” or “sexual zoning.”

    Once you’re aware that it’s all arbitrary, you need to take ownership for your decision to either play along or go against the grain.

  64. @ sentient

    “Give myself permission to act like I’m deserving of them”

    I know I am deserving of them but I guess I just question why they would choose a 48 year old man albeit one in good gshape because I sure as fuck wouldn’t choose a 48 year old still OK cougar over a 25 year old hb8+ so why should they when they have options? And they do have options!

    I just don’t see these late 40’s early 50’s /young hb8+ pairings anywhere I go in my city so it’s not a case of I haven’t understood the concepts of amused mastery frame etc. It’s that I don’t see any evidence of men my age having this success except on here.

    But in the bars I go to gym etc no I don’t see it!
    Even the bouncer I mentioned earlier with the 23 year old hb8 he looks years younger (about 34-5 and is in great shape) plus the job helps and he is the only example I can think of.

    My main plate is 17 years younger so the bouncer is only doing one year better as he is 41.

    I’m sure it happens but not seeing it in my city.

  65. @ Kaminsky

    Re: female obesity. If we can relegate smokers, not just out of the building, but even banish them off the property for some fiction of health, create nation-wide campaigns discouraging smoking, shame smokers with pictures of catcher’s-glove like faces and summer teeth, and generally hate on them, I believe we could/must institute shame as a female improvement technique. If any creature is prone to the affects of shaming and group-think it is a woman.

    In the hospital, I’ve addressed younger women’s obesity, and how it limits the ability to treat them and ultimately endangers their successful outcome. You’d think I’d just called the patient a FAT FUCK. The patient becomes furious, the fat RN’s act as proxy offended, clutch their pearls, run to administration yewling that my accurate clinical observation has become a point of care deficiency. How offensive, demeaning, and creul!

    I get the dynamic that female fatties expect a pass, and are in it together to secure their hypergamy. Nonetheless, I found a work-around, in my own little way, to shame all these bratty battleaxes. Just talk clinically. They don’t get access to our candyland, conversation, interest, and treat ’em like their non-existent.

    I’m thinking negging by flat ignoring these land whales, ahem, women, socially until they shape up and their BMI’s are under 25

    Fellas, these dumb, disgusting bitches don’t deserve our attention, need regular rhetorical shaming smackdowns, and we’re smart enough to do it and not get fired.

  66. I know I am deserving of them but I guess I just question why they would choose a 48 year old

    Not sure how you can write this Play and conclude you think you are deserving?

    Cats are not dogs… you can’t use your dog logic in assessing cat motivations…

    I don’t see any evidence of men my age having this success except on here. Yeh well this is a self selecting group. Look at the the club owners and restaurant owners to start with, they are the most likely to display this kind of pairing… but that shouldn’t be an issue for you.

    If you believe you are deserving, go out and lay claim to them. Like right now.

    That will convince you of what is possible far more than any blog or video.

    Good luck!

  67. @Play – Sentient has your number, and trust me, I get it. But this sentence telegraphs how you actually value yourself and as long as you feel this way, you will have trouble.

    “I know I am deserving of them but I guess I just question why they would choose a 48 year old man albeit one in good gshape because I sure as fuck wouldn’t choose a 48 year old still OK cougar over a 25 year old hb8+ so why should they when they have options? And they do have options!”

    If you felt entitled to their pussy you wouldn’t ask the question. One error in your reasoning is to assume your attraction to a 48yo cougar is similar to how female attraction works, that’s just wrong. And you have several things in your favor, try to remember:

    – Logistics are crucial. Family and friends of some 24yo hottie cannot have it be known they are banging some old guy – no matter how hot he is. She may tell her besties but only in the abstract. And they will tease her for it, but be curious…So, you have to isolate and deal with her one on one at a certain point before escalating.

    – Re: Sentient’s gold above – Do not provide life lessons and be the wizened Dad type, which has been my mistake.

    – Remember, they live in a world where guys are mostly betas or “no fear dude” faux alphas with no real character or life experience or grit. This is what young women find like catnip, and young men simply do not have it.

    But still, the game is always the same. You must get some interest in return, and calibrate properly etc. Many young women will pass but you don’t need them all. You just need one. And you can do what I do and collect them. At this point, I have like 7 young women I’ve connected with like this over the past 3 years. I’ve fucked some of them, others not. I keep working it and eventually some of them fall on my dick. It’s not textbook game, but then again, I’m not textbook. I get some play, usually when they break up with a younger guy. Fine by me…

    I’m not picking them up in bars, nope, almost all of mine came from music connections. Find some venue where you can demonstrate high value, could be a nonprofit or a zillion other things. Nothing like being onstage and performing to DHV though..

  68. I don’t know what we are saying here but it sounds as if we mean to say that MGTOW though being a male strategy to fight hypergamy, it turns out to have an unexpected outcome, favouring hypergamous western woman because it allows men to naturally sort themselves out into the fuckables and the unfuckables, doing the “sorting out” job for her?

    Man!

    Sad.

  69. @Sentient, glad you posted that FR from Heartiste. I missed the nuance of your motives all these many moons. Wifey was shit testing with sex! So your FR proved it was her and not you, but afterward do you think she sensed a change, thus gave up the V and gave up most of the shit testing? Do you feel you have to continue with the sarging forever to keep this effect going? Or is it now just the joy of variety that keeps you going?

  70. Hasn’t this “zoning” concept been covered in “A League of Your Own”? I can respect the Genome’s desire to keep chickens out of the garden, but man those rules don’t apply to me.

  71. Newlyaloof

    Culum asked a similar question at the time, was posted further down that thread… My response

    With the wife it was more fluctuation two steps forward one back for a while. Due to proximity and 25+ years of history. Plus what I’ve discovered is you can only game a wife so far at this age due to hormonal issues/perimenopause etc.

    When I got rid of all neediness the validation issues went away. Understand nothing is ever about “you” with women (new or old lol). It is all about them and what they are feeling at that moment. Emotion is the only truth to a woman, and that changes by the minute based on hormonal and other chemical inputs. This is why they are so adept at rewriting history, because they feel differently now than they did then. Like the 7 from the story, she may have a very different view today. Also why you can’t use logic on women or show them a demonstrated pattern as proof.

    Don’t get me wrong, I totally turned the marriage around, but with women, shit testing never ever ends. It may diminish, soften or change form, but it never ends. I still need to game her to keep her in line. which she is for the most part. Took a few years to get there though.

    It was just a huge frame battle, sex was the proxy, because when you lose hand you have to fight to get it back. Better to not lose it to start with… hence my maxim Have Hand, Never Lose It. Shit testing doesn’t end, but it just becomes minor background stuff, like EhIntellect just telling his wife they will watch the movie… no effort expended.

    “Do you feel you have to continue with the sarging forever to keep this effect going? ”

    No and you don’t even need to sarge at all… just keep your frame or do anything that will help you maintain your frame. It’s all between your ears, like Play thinking younger girls won’t choose him.

    ” Or is it now just the joy of variety that keeps you going?”

    For a while it was just the fun of learning and applying technique… then transferred to just enjoying being around new feminine energy… having put five years in now I just do what I want when I want to… Platinum Rule style and don’t stress about anything, home or in the field…

  72. The hottest girls only give out free IOIs to men with super high status, like star college/pro athletes and musicians of top music groups. Everyone else has to approach before they get IOIs.

    If a girl is a 10, just approaching will frequently get you an IOI from her because approaching a 10 demonstrates your high value because of how much balls it takes to approach a 10. Lots of balls = high value

  73. Calibration question: men, please rate Jennifer Lawrence based on pix from the Daily Mail article on the HB 1 to HB 10 scale. List the pic you use.

  74. she is at best a 7… In the white dress made up. Look at the upper arm and her hips… chipmunk cheeks… she is waiting to explode like the Appalachian girl she is…

    Mandatory female orthodonture work leaves them all with the same compressed ’round” wide but straight and bright mouth… which makes there faces more masculine as well…

  75. Thanks for the shout-out. Credit goes to Novaseeker for coining the term “sexual zoning” in the comments section of HUS back in the days when that shitpile was somewhat readable.

  76. As fucked up as this possibility sounds, I would not be surprised if the future of the SMP involves so many game unaware men that they realize the only way to get sex from a woman is to rape them. These game unaware men would be the result of the feminist agenda shaming men and taunting them for not trying.

    There’s not a chance this will happen. All social trends – the obesity epidemic, dropping testosterone levels, the spread of internet porn – are pointing in the opposite direction. Rape rates have dropped massively in the last couple of decades. At this rate, rape will almost completely disappear from Western societies in a few decades, and almost all rapes that do happen will be committed by African and Asian minorities.

  77. “Mandatory female orthodonture work . . .”

    Artificially restores the genetic pattern that most these days lose during development. The Narrow, triangular face, like the broadening waist, is an affect of the artificial diet. It’s the sugar and grains face.

  78. I have to disagree. In every office of decent size, there’s a minority of guys fucking the women.

    Indeed, which is why I added that “hot men are allowed to get away with more”.

  79. @ Anonymous Reader

    Yes, that’s correct. The entire culture is held hostage to women’s feelwings.

    THIS !!!

  80. > Yes, that’s correct. The entire culture is held hostage to women’s feelwings.

    That’s because men are too cowardly to stand up to women and say enough we will tolerate no more but they don’t.

    I’ve heard this opinion many times, and thought about it a bit. I don’t think it’s cowardice, rather it’s simple indifference, as pathetic as that obviously seems to many men. The possibility that they’re the ones who’re supposed to salvage this culture doesn’t even occur to most men, mostly because they don’t treasure it. Standing up to women makes sense when you value them enough that you want to change their ways, when you see them as worthy of intervention and risk. Except that most Western men don’t see their “fellow” women that way, either because they don’t care, or because they’re blue-pilled and actually believe that women are strong and independent on their own.

  81. In any case, what I see in the pictures that accompany the article is that Lawrence has passed prime. Whatever her rating is now, it’s a point lower than it used to be, and it ain’t ever going up again.

    Last fuckable day looming on the horizon.

  82. Hence a major reason why the FI, despite all of its lip service against porn, really hasn’t done much at all in the way of concrete actions to eliminate it or even restrict it meaningfully — it’s a critical safety valve on which the integrity of the entire contemporary social edifice depends.

    It’s a major reason, but I don’t think it’s the main reason. The main reason is that the porn industry provides a livelihood to a large number of women who wouldn’t be employed otherwise.

  83. @kfg

    Orthotropics, Dr. Mew. Diet is only part of the picture. More so than a genetic pattern, poor oral posture and modern orthodontics and wisdom tooth removal destroy our natural facial structure, which also affects how our airways develop.

    Breastfeeding also plays an early and important role in facial development as well. Brian Palmer wrote extensively about it.

    The coveted masculine jawline is actually a birthright taken away from men by modern culture. Everyone will look different, naturally, but our jaws are meant to develop in such a way that allows room for all our wisdom teeth. Almost all modern faces are longer and narrower because of poor oral posture from early on.

    Tougher foods can help but even on a soft food diet proper oral posture and swallowing can be maintained. The resting and swallowing position of the tongue is the most important factor in shaping the face over time as the teeth will form around the pressure exerted by the tongue…or lack of pressure, if you tend to breathe through your mouth instead of your nose.

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