Höllenhund brought up an interesting thought a few weeks ago:
This reminds me of something I wanted to ask here in general. The general narrative about MGTOW in the ‘sphere is that they are “avoiding women”. A more general narrative pushed in the mainstream media by Zimbardo, Hymowitz, Milo and other blue/purple pill journalists is that a growing number of young men are avoiding women.
What does “avoiding women” precisely mean in the current socio-cultural context in the West? The word “avoid” entails some sort of active, deliberate, protective measure. My problem with that is that the “avoidance of women”, or a breakaway from women doesn’t look like that at all in practice today, because the social context of male-female interaction has changed completely in the last 2-3 decades.
This is something our pal Novaseeker has described before. In the bygone Western social system, young people were expected to regularly interact with one another in controlled, regulated environments, in a way that fostered productive, long-term, monogamous, assortative relationships. This was a sort of “holistic” milieu, so to speak, where young people treated one another as potential future partners, sexual and otherwise, in a socially regulated manner, in all cases when they were permitted to interact. This was even the norm in workplaces where both men and women were present. The average man found a girlfriend through his extended family or social circle, because families and social circles were normally large.
What we have today is the complete opposite: “sexual zoning”. Some mixed-sex environments, like the workplace, schools and campuses, are made completely asexual – sterile, so to speak. No sexualized interactions are permitted to take place. This is demanded by law and expected by society. In such environments, you’re supposed to treat members of the opposite sex strictly as colleagues or professionals, non-sexual beings. (Hot men are allowed to get away with more, of course, but that’s another issue.) Other mixed-sex environments, on the other hand, like nightclubs, are expected to be full-on sexual. Everybody there knows that all interactions entail the future possibility of casual sex. It’s basically a meat market. You’re expected to hit on girls, and girls expect to be hit on by attractive men. Socializing in these environments requires action, engagement. If you want to find a partner, either just for sex or something more, you have to go there, you have to have Game etc.
In other words, avoidance of women in the old days was an anti-social act of disengagement that was frowned upon. Today, avoidance of women merely means that you’re not expending excess energy and time to do certain things. It’s an “action” with few or no social repercussions – you won’t be socially ostracized or something. But technically it’s not an action. You’re basically “avoiding” women by not hitting the clubs on Saturday night. You’re avoiding them through simple inaction. You can have a full-time job, or go to college, have a social circle, have hobbies, buddies etc., basically a normie life, and still “avoid” women.
I thought this was an interesting observation because there is a stark contradiction in how these sexual zones are presented to men by women. From an old books perspective, men are still expected to be the initiators. It is incumbent upon men to be the sex that approaches and expresses intimate interest in women, and men who don’t, or who fail to build themselves into acceptable mates for women are shamed as being perpetual adolescents or just “giving up.” Our feminine-primary social mandate still promotes the expectation that men will prepare for, and initiate with, women.
However, from a new books perspective men are, as Höllenhund illustrates, expected to know their place in respect to whatever sexual zone they find themselves in, as well as having an understanding of how they are perceived in the SMP. So, in an asexual zone such as a college campus or the workplace, men are expected to know their SMV and act or not act accordingly. Men not meeting or exceeding what would make for an optimized Hypergamy with women are expected not to initiate or approach. In fact, this expected understanding extends to sexual zones and fosters the avoidance Höllenhund talks about here.
For all of the handwringing from feminine-primary gender pundits about men ‘dropping out’ of life or the SMP, it is this contradiction in atmosphere that promotes the avoidance. Hypergamy, being the prime directive of westernized societies, is figuratively best served when women are in complete and unilateral control of sexual selection. Thus, we see laws and social dictates installed to encourage men to self-select themselves out of the process and make this selection easier for women. Men will be shamed for not initiating and not approaching, but simultaneously be held accountable for as much as hate crimes if they step outside what they are expected to know are their appropriate sexual zones.
Recently there’s been a spate of articles all attempting to explain why millennials aren’t getting after it in an age when it’s never been easier to hook up. Try as they will, nearly all of the explanations fail to account for how sexual zoning has affected the sexual marketplace today. Millennials have the ‘hook up generation’ reputation, but statistically they’re not doing much fucking.
Noah Patterson, 18, likes to sit in front of several screens simultaneously: a work project, a YouTube clip, a video game. To shut it all down for a date or even a one-night stand seems like a waste. “For an average date, you’re going to spend at least two hours, and in that two hours I won’t be doing something I enjoy,” he said.
It’s not that he doesn’t like women. “I enjoy their companionship, but it’s not a significant part of life,” said Patterson, a Web designer in Bellingham, Washington.
He has never had sex, although he likes porn. “I’d rather be watching YouTube videos and making money.” Sex, he said, is “not going to be something people ask you for on your résumé.”
One aspect that these largely millennial writers themselves seem oblivious to is the complexities of sexual zones that shift constantly for guys. In 2016 hooking up is easy, we’ve got Red Pill awareness and we have instantaneous communication, but what we don’t have are clearly defined sexual zones. Put a guy whose social intelligence is sub par into the wrong zone and it’s understandable that he has better things to occupy himself with that he ‘enjoys’.
This is a common refrain from MGTOWs. It’s usually some variation of “why should I waste my time trying to untangle some girl’s head just to put myself at risk of a sexual harassment or rape accusation?”
Fred Flange had this comment a few weeks ago:
Co-sign, and this “soft MGTOW” observation ties in nicely with the WashPost’s “no sex please we’re collegiate” article. MGTOW is now socially subsidized and easy to implement: just do nothing! At college, don’t engage in class, or even better, “attend” the lectures on-line. Say no more in class or lab than you must, then leave. Start no convos, you won’t be dragged into any. All of this goes for cubicle workers: in the lunchroom, stare at your phone, or eat at your desk, or if you can, get outside but go alone. No feelings caught, no feelings hurt. Everybody gets nothing, therefore everybody wins.
Eventually you can learn the fine art of disappearance in urban settings: yes you occupy space, but other than someone bumping into you, it is possible to go anywhere without your registering with anyone in the vicinity, not even cops. You can switch it on and off like a light.
One possible corollary to look for: see if the “bros before homes” shaming begins to die down. It should. Because before that you patriamalarkey-preaching Tumblr-inas insisted you wanted that cheesy-bro to go? He’s GONE! Soft MGTOW is the mandated social paradigm, outside of “safe social zones” like public streets, malls, clubs, etc. plus in some workplaces and colleges it’s law. You’re going to complain about men obeying the law?
There’s also no shortage of articles decrying the absence of boys and young men these days too. The frequent bugbear in these always point to guys ‘dropping out’ and playing X-Box all day. From America’s Lost Boys:
Young men, significantly more so than young women, are stuck in life. Research released in May from the Pew Center documented a historic demographic shift: American men aged 18-30 are now statistically more likely to be living with their parents than with a romantic partner. This trend is significant, for one simple reason: Twenty- and thirtysomething men who are living at home, working part-time or not at all, are unlikely to be preparing for marriage. Hurst’s research says that these men are single, unoccupied, and fine with that—because their happiness doesn’t depend on whether they are growing up and living life.
Now, granted, this article presumes men’s adulthood ought to be measured by his capacity to get involved with a woman, support a family and maintain a steady job. It’s very hard for writers who tackle this topic to pull their heads out of the old books reasonings. Thus, the go-to answer to the question of ‘why do guys drop out?’ is video games. It’s far easier to goof on men as a whole if they can be made to look juvenile, lazy or stupid to the point men not knowing what’s good for them.
It would take a real effort to tackle the larger reasons as to why men drop out, and men like Samuel James (article author) would be forced to acknowledge the disincentives for men to participate in what his old books reasonings tell him is some mutually beneficial arrangement. Those disincentives don’t paint women in a very flattering light, so it’s much easier to dismiss them as garden variety misogyny.
The drop out generation are content with their lot in life because they’ve accepted the realities of a social order that debases men and manhood to being appliances to better serve women’s imperatives. And the risks of investing themselves in a relationship or finding the inner will to become better men for the sake of “growing up” are significant when the rules of engagement and the acceptable sexual zones are constantly changing.
The Damage Done By ‘Mattress Girl’
“Even in less extreme situations, young men are more skeptical of women’s ability or propensity to consent to sex, which some women on campus consider demeaning.
“I find that men are more and more interested in ensuring that I’m consenting before sex, which would seem like a good thing,” Columbia student Dylan Hunzeker said. “But sometimes I don’t necessarily feel that way. Especially when I have to answer a man’s question: ‘are you sure you’re not too drunk?’ Or ‘you want to have sex with me?’ In a sense, it’s annoying and debilitating to be constantly questioned about whether or not I have agency and am a sexual human being.”
“Men are scared of women on campus now, and fear breeds anger and prejudice. Women are frustrated by men, which inspires a lack of desire to collaborate for solutions.”
I would argue that a large majority of men accused of sexual harassment or even just suspected of impropriety are men who’ve found themselves in an environment they believed was an acceptable sexual zone. We are fast approaching a time when all zones will be so arbitrary and ambiguous that every environment with sexual potential will be avoided. This will have the effect of putting women into unilateral control of their own Hypergamy. It will be a state of Sadie Hawkins world – only women will make approaches on men and only those who match her Hypergamous ideal, an ideal fostered and reinforced by a steady diet of social media ego inflation.
It’s ironic that authors bemoaning the drop out generation of men never acknowledge the other side of the disincentives for men – those generated by a feminine-primary social narrative – the generation of women who remain unmarried well into their middle age. When this is explored, once again, it’s the result of the juvenile, ridiculous men that same narrative has created for itself.
It’s simple–there is nothing that any woman could do for me in the bedroom that would be as good as what she could to do me in the courtroom would be bad. Like that old Jim Croche song, “Five short minutes of lovin’ got me twenty long years in jail”, only now it doesn’t help if a woman is legally of age.
[…] Höllenhund brought up an interesting thought a few weeks ago: This reminds me of something I wanted to ask here in general. The general narrative about MGTOW in the ‘sphere is continue […]
A couple of points. One: for the most part , male-female interactions throughout the course of the species has been transactional. Man offers protection/food/tribal authority/ money , and woman offers sex . Whether sex or not happens depends on his resources and her willingness to accept the deal, as it were. The Patriarchial societies tried to organize this into a covert marketplace. Sure it was couched in terms of romance: but the “Old Set of Books” rules were all structured to ensure the man’s resources or potential thereof met the female family’s overall standards – and on the male family’s… Read more »
As fucked up as this possibility sounds, I would not be surprised if the future of the SMP involves so many game unaware men that they realize the only way to get sex from a woman is to rape them. These game unaware men would be the result of the feminist agenda shaming men and taunting them for not trying. “Damned if you do, damned if you don’t”. Thus the agenda for avoiding a non-existent rape culture may actually manifest a real rape culture.
Again, I hope this is not the case and the SMP stabilizes.
The old set of rules was rather clear, with a micro level of ambiguity. Going to an age-appropriate social function from the teen years on was pretty clear, one was expected to behave in a certain way and that was that. Sneaking off into the bushes at the church social had a different set of rules, but still some. It was considered all part of providing a pool of eligible men and women to each other for purposes of pairing off. In the main it worked, with the tail end of the distribution becoming “spinsters” or “confirmed bachelors” as the… Read more »
I still have the feeling it is all just a big shit test. They send all possible signals saying you are unwelcome to hit on them, it´s unacceptable in such and such environment and if you do it, you are evil. If you buy it and believe you are unwelcome, it means you don´t have the balls to break the rules to get what you want and therefore… well, you really are unwelcome.
XD I have to disagree. In every office of decent size, there’s a minority of guys fucking the women. There’s a subclass of male in the modern matriarchy who gets to fuck every broad in the company/ office/ campus. The rules exist, and they can be and are used to keep the majority of men in line, often with punishments that can be downright Draconian. The fact that 10% of the men in a company are In like Flynn doesn’t change this, it merely highlights the fact that the new rules are ambiguous in application and sometimes even in regulation.… Read more »
I still have the feeling it is all just a big shit test.
Yes, that’s correct. The entire culture is held hostage to women’s feelwings.
I know you are on to something here.
For years we have had this discussion,where is the motivation?
I have always put it down to,no future,negative media,bad economy,the war,the green movement,political correctness and the educational curriculum.
But the bottom line is the best motivation for a young man is sex,it is why I got a job,bought a car,got an apartment.Fact is almost everything productive I have done was about sex,and then that really ramped up when I became a father.
All this seems so harmless,just drops of water,then it is overfull and there is a flood.
80% of women wanting 20% of the men and 80% of men wanting 20% of the women. Presumably the top 20% men will only want to be with the top 20% females. That leaves the 80% going W/MGTOW. Some of the 80% females will be side plates for sure for the 20% males. The 80% guys just spin plates to from the 80% chicks, as the 20%, because hypergamy, won’t bother with them (unless exploited as BB providers/orbiters). The Sadie Hawkins approach will just make females even more proactive and promiscuous in order to out-compete each other. Men don’t have… Read more »
>>Women are frustrated by men, which inspires a lack of desire to collaborate for solutions.”
Sounds like hamstering for the women. Women have a lack of desire to collaborate with men for a solution. Full…Stop. They must be conquered and defeated or they will destroy you. Collaborating with them is a fatal mistake so many married men make.
Yes, that’s correct. The entire culture is held hostage to women’s feelwings.
That’s because men are too cowardly to stand up to women and say enough we will tolerate no more but they don’t. Feminism is one big shit test.
They must be conquered and defeated or they will destroy you.
Excellent comment. Calling you “blue pill” is like calling a big guy “tiny”. You are more aware than most are.
Rollo- Long time reader. Your writing really changed the way I interact with women and while it was not bad before, I almost feel like I know them better than they know themselves. Anyway.. I think I can size up your article with this video..
“Thus, we see laws and social dictates installed to encourage men to self-select themselves out of the process and make this selection easier for women.”
Thank you for the article
80% of women wanting 20% of the men
True. Big data from OK Cupid supports this.
and 80% of men wanting 20% of the women.
No evidence for this. Big data from OK Cupid contradicts it. OKCupid rankings run from 1 to 5, and the data shows male attraction is uniform across that space.
Don’t make the mistake of assuming that male sexual attraction and female sexual attraction are in any way interchangeable, they are not. Because cats are not dogs.
What the hell would shakespear write with this in our time?
the 80% of women wanting 20% of men… is misleading. They want commitment from the 20%… not a pump and dump.
@Sentient: They may want commitment but they’re willing to settle for seed, no?
A man looks at average woman and says, “Meh. She’s OK I guess. Kinda average.”
A woman looks at average man and says, “He’s short. He’s poor. He’s ugly. He’s boring. He doesn’t have a nice car, he . . . ”
In short, for women there is effectively no average. You’re either hot, or you’re roadkill.
. Feminism is one big shit test.
Amen… and the seeds of its destruction already sown… because NO woman is happy when she gets exactly what she thinks she wants… RP 101.
Now if only the guys would realize this, stop cowering and begin to life again…
Insightful as always. Interesting times and difficult navigation for the lads. However, MTGOW has a completely different vibe for men who have swallowed the red at a ripe age. For us, it is not the changing/confusing zones or the ease of avoidance that modern society has created. Those are problems for the young man. It is the harsh realization that the many traits of hypergamy do not render the woman attractive enough to warrant the investment.
Rollo, I really don’t get your talk of need for sexual zoning. Perhaps this thinking is something that is still “in the works”. For example there are defined sexual zones in corporate cultures in the west. In general you are not really allowed to date/be sexual/casually see anyone at your company unless there is explicit continual permission given by the woman. period. end. of. story. Which is a pretty good definition of a zone I would think. If you had been through a few HR investigations you might have a better perspective about defined zones already existing. The corporate west… Read more »
I think what is not realized is that many men will not find their way in the restricted zoning we see today. The zoning, of course, always permits a small percentage of men who are the sexual winners to pursue normally regardless of zone — we are, in effect, zoneless. And that is what we are trying to teach other men to become — become anti-fragile when it comes to sexual zoning. That doesn’t mean you bang your way through the office, of course … it just means that you absolutely could, and could do it without major consequences —… Read more »
I’ll just drop this in here. Notice the source is NY Magazine, and I am much amused by the subtopic, it’s visible in the URL.
the 80% of women wanting 20% of men… is misleading. They want commitment from the 20%… not a pump and dump.
LOL. No, they want, period. You know that yourself, as you are part of the 20%, dude.
This article is 4 years old but it is still valid.
Don’t even have to read all the words if there’s not enough time.
Just take a quick look at the graphs, the whole story is there.
Rugby — Yep. Interesting doc from the ilo. AR — Yeah, I saw that a few months ago, too. This is the money quote, right at the end: ““Women are more forgiven because it’s the struggle of being a certain type of powerful woman,” she says. “You were a different person when you began the relationship. And he’s just not.” ” Yep. Men and our needs are irrelevant, women are heroes regardless of what they choose to do, and we are to be judged based on what we do, because reasons. Basically FI 101. Don’t bitch about this, guys. Realize… Read more »
As someone who does well at social circle game, you do have to realize the threats posed by white knights and betas as well as “feminists” about “inappropriate” conduct—which is nothing more than gaming and asking women out. They get “offended”…but it’s two-fold. You have to be able to game properly and calibrate. I’ve found that while the neg and teasing work 90% of the time, not all women “get it”…So I have to calibrate more. There’s a lot at stake here with women in any situation. The fact they get “offended” is not always a bad thing. That initial… Read more »
Really great essay, Rollo. I was talking to a male relative of mine about this recently; traditionally, societies create ritualistic activities for young men and women to meet for the purpose of choosing a mate. The idea is that through these mechanism they naturally find a good person to marry by early adulthood. Western society today has done away with all of this There are no opportunities for the purpose of marriage. College used to be the place you met your spouse; girls would joke they were going to get their M.R.S. degree. That is no longer the case. I… Read more »
This new mechanism could be a tax or a legal thing or something. Already in place. Between subsidies, transfers and so on which are not equally distributed in the least between men and women, taxes (which men pay more of due to the false “wage gap” of men working more than women) flow from men to women. I agree we will see more of this, but it will remain subtle. Need to keep the masses of non-aware men anaesthetized by ESPN and Xbone and so on. But, the process is also well, well underway. It’s a staple of the FI… Read more »
“College used to be the place you met your spouse . . .”
In 1940 only about 5% of the population went to college. By 1970 that had risen to about 15%.
Most people met their spouses at social dances, church or through friends/family.
In 1940 only about 5% of the population went to college. By 1970 that had risen to about 15%. Most people met their spouses at social dances, church or through friends/family. Exactly. What has changed is that the college class, which has expanded, has largely abandoned college as a means of spouse hunting. That is new. It was historically a smaller group than it is now, for certain, but college as spouse hunting is dead now, and that is new — well, new-ish — it was already dying when I was in college in the 80s, but there were still… Read more »
The broader issue, however, is that, as we know, most guys won’t do this, and most of them won’t risk being tossed from work or school, either, so we’re going to see much more “soft MGTOW” in the years ahead. Very few men stepping up in any kind of environment that isn’t explicitly “permitted” (like parties, bars, clubs), and in those situations finding themselves hopelessly outcompeted by men with Game. Most of these won’t learn Game, most will retreat, not due to MGTOW ideology (although some will find that, too, via the internet), but de facto due to having bad… Read more »
@ Novaseeker I’m not sure that porn helps to keep a lid on anything, because the Betas and Omegas that rely on it for an escape would be Betas and Omegas regardless of porn’s availability. Saying it helps to keep a lid on anything would be implying that Betas and Omegas would do anything differently if porn weren’t available, and I don’t think that’s the case. Unless doing something differently means awkwardly hitting on women, and demonstrating unwanted interest (i.e. running bad Game) in “zoned” areas. To which I’d say, so what? The men that would do that weren’t going… Read more »
I get what you are saying. The perspective is that the system is what it is, and the men in question would either be not getting laid without porn or not getting laid with porn, so what is the difference — they ain’t getting laid either way. The difference is that there would be many more bucks against the system if we didn’t have the porn we have now. A greater percentage of these guys would “try more”, in other words, and, failing, would be more pissed than today where current porn encourages retreat. Porn is anaesthesia, and the best… Read more »
What does ‘edgy’ mean or trying to imply in the neg? IOW what are you going to say as a reply when they ask ‘what do you mean’?
You just grin, you make her fill in the blanks. The point is to destabilize her id a little and get her on her back foot for a minute. Don’t be deterministic about it, leave things open ended, make her hamster do the work.
We are fast approaching a time when all zones will be so arbitrary and ambiguous that every environment with sexual potential will be avoided. This will have the effect of putting women into unilateral control of their own Hypergamy.
That’s… a really unstable society. Things aren’t going to end well if the average guy doesn’t see any reason to do anything but play video games and take drugs all day.
@Agent P “Edgy” is a great word…it means whatever the girl wants it to.
I said: “Do you work in the arts? You have that edgy look…”
She smiled, was all curious.
Rollo given the current migrant crisis. And possible invasion by hostile forces I do not think the SMP as you stated will last.
Top post, always enjoy Hollenhund and Nova’s take on things, very erudite. I recently watched an animal documentary on zoos and animal behaviour and there was an interesting line that took me by surprise. The zoo keeper mentioned that he had to introduce the male animal (if memory serves me correctly I think it was a large bird of some sort) to socialise with females for mating, otherwise past a certain age of non-socialisation the male becomes incapable of mating. Past a certain age of non female interaction the male literally doesn’t know how to mate and doesn’t want to… Read more »
I work in a hospital. Nurses, fat and unattractive, everywhere. Only 5% of the women are HB 5+. I live in the upper Midwest, thus the pool a women is skewed to the ugly. I get this. I’m not too surprised that the single guys aren’t that attracted to the land whales and dumpy, bitchy, expectant twats. Pedestalizing hot chicks is understandable. The last ten years has ballooned the BMI of women to unrecognizable libido-killing levels. The women are depressed too. The female hospital staff have given up trying to look good. They see their SMV declining, are told to… Read more »
So that graph from the dating website data proves the Pareto principle. Women consider 80% of men to be below average in looks, this confirms my belief that the top 20% of men are not top tier men or alphas. I would estimate this group to be the top 5% with the next 5% being lesser alphas and the following 10% being greater betas. The remaining 80% are the invisibles that are only used as utilities for provisioning and most of these men will never experience genuine raw female desire. They are the men women “settle for” and secretly hate… Read more »
@yareally I would really want your input here. I am doing cold approaches regularly. I usually go direct because my looks is better than an average guy and the girls are more receptive not to mention the fact , i don’t like taking a longer route here in India as the alone time i get is very short due to less frequent male-female interactions normally. So anything I say after going direct, usually means I am flirting and can be taken to that effect while i talk to girls doing cold approaches. But these days, I have started going to… Read more »
Playdontpay Glad you are out there somewhat happy, doing your thing. But am I where I want to be? No I would estimate my relative success makes me a greater beta/low end alpha , but at my age I certainly can’t go out and pull 20 something Hb 8’s every weekend (not even close). This though is a completely limiting belief. I am 48, HABD the same or thereabouts… If this is something you want, work on your game. The exact dynamics you speak about with the 90% make age and frame that much more attractive. But you have to… Read more »
–I loved the Ferrari analogy way up top. –I’m always surprised with the comments about porn. I can’t believe it is often spoken about as if it’s some kind of ‘close enough’ substitute for the real thing or some kind of long-term answer. –AND A HUGE THANK YOU TO “EH INTELLECT” “I work in a hospital. Nurses, fat and unattractive, everywhere. Only 5% of the women are HB 5+.” “The last ten years has ballooned the BMI of women to unrecognizable libido-killing levels.” I admire everyone’s eloquence and the very deep reasoning and outlining of the SMP/Game/Mgtow etc. but Occam’s… Read more »
EHIntellect Another thank you to sentient, HABD, and others. Yesterday I tell my 16 y.o. that we should finish watching Fight Club while I do some woodworking. The lady says she doesn’t approve of the themes there, tsk-tsk. On y’alls advice I calmly reply, “We are going to watch the movie. It may be today or another, but it will be watched.” That was it. She sniffed, but by evening we were playing strip karaoke (my suggestion), she blowing me on and off for an hour Way to go. For the lurkers, see how simple it is to push back?… Read more »
“But you have to do the work.”
Of course you’re right. I’m not arguing. But imagine a world where women had some pressure to “do the work” too and maintain some physical dignity by…going for walks…cutting down to a half-pound of sugar a day from 3 pounds? 85% can’t even do that. It gets degrading. I don’t blame young men for just latching onto activities in life that at least allow them luxury of numbness.
I don’t blame young men for just latching onto activities in life that at least allow them luxury of numbness.
I don’t either, if they are happy. But a funny thing happens to women when there is a real shortage of men…
Think you should’ve left the font the previous size. This will have the effect of putting women into unilateral control of their own Hypergamy., It may require women to turn sadie hawkins, but I don’t think they will. That would require them to face rejection. Women can’t stand that. I can see things turning into distinctive sexual zones. You want to meet somebody, or try to develop something, you have to go only to certain places, like the clubs. But there won’t be enough places, club or otherwise, to accommodate. I can see a rise in the number of organized… Read more »
Hey Rollo, I really like the last 5 posts. There are different somehow….and i like it. Once a man has really swallowed the RedPill and has accepted the truth about women and the societal climate, it is clear that women nowadays are only good for pump and dump. And a increasing number of women arent even good for that. It has been mentioned many times in here, that a man needs a real and worthy incentive to be the “Work Horse”. It’s becoming clearer and clearer, that they are no satisfactory incentives any longer! The Post of Blue Pill Professor… Read more »
Today is the most important day of my life.
It will be lived and maybe I’ll get to fail at something new again.
“Men in power can flaunt rules like the HR policies at will due to their status.”
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB111019724886272076 (Boeing CEO Resigns)
Nope. The CEO is most at risk.
” The core point -sex with women today is a luxury product like a Ferrari. Smart guys dont necessarily buy a Ferrari to keep: they’re fragile and expensive to maintain plus worthless in day to day traffic.
Rather -smart guys buy track time and a weekend lease, hoon the shit outta that car, then hand the maintenance time bomb back in. The loser is the moron stuck changing tires and timing chains on an Italian sports car because he bought it “to keep”…”
Lol…a very nice example !!
If it flies, floats or fucks, rent it, don’t own it…….
@ sentient I’m sure you are right I do need to improve my game, whatever game is exactly? I have been reading Rollo for about 3.5 years and lifting hard for the last two, I have no problems passing shit tests and I do cold approach, I go out to bars in my city most weekends during the summer months and usually approach 2-3 women with intent and a few more just for banter. During Winter months I go out less and tend to stay local so far fewer opportunities. I have fully swallowed the red pill it took me… Read more »
Playdon’tPay I know i’m missing something can you recommend any good “game resources”? Heh Yareallyarchive.com is a good start, there is a list of the newbie references RSD PIMP, Mystery Method, etc. What you are missing is the structure of attraction and how to trigger it… the conscious understanding of it in real time. all easily obtained and works if you practice it. Think of game as the language of female seduction, a verbal and physical language which is bounded by Red Pill truths of evobio/psych… So where you are now you understand some of the language, but not yet… Read more »
Maybe I self limit myself by only approaching 20 something hotties if they give me serious IOI’s ( the 24 year old came over sat on my knee and said hi lol) but I can’t expect that to happen so often.
Yes you are limiting yourself, and your limiting beliefs of what is possible are negatively affecting your confidence and subcoms… beyond missing the structure of attraction…
Permission to be awesome GRANTED!
Good place to start, wala posted this the other day. Good 1 hour overview of the model. Then looks of the 6 or so Mystery seminars online for detail, and the book of course.
Playdontpay Maybe I self limit myself by only approaching 20 something hotties if they give me serious IOI’s ( the 24 year old came over sat on my knee and said hi lol) but I can’t expect that to happen so often. Sentient and YaReally and Blaximus can all point out in a different way how you are limiting yourself by waiting for IOI’s. Look at it this way: if you are in the club or pub and a woman is there even remotely dolled up, her presence is an IOI just by itself. You already know how to do… Read more »
The hottest girls only give out free IOIs to men with super high status, like star college/pro athletes and musicians of top music groups. Everyone else has to approach before they get IOIs.
If a girl is a 10, just approaching will frequently get you an IOI from her because approaching a 10 demonstrates your high value because of how much balls it takes to approach a 10. Lots of balls = high value
Here is a link to my first game focused pick up. I wrote it up several years after it happened and broke out some of the key points in game terms and examples of creating attraction, social dynamics, forcing opens, body language/posture, preselection, jealousy plots, dominance, kino, roll offs/takeaways etc.
watch the Mystery video first, then go over the FR with that in mind. It should all start to click for you and guide your quest for knowledge.
Permission to be awesome GRANTED!
Play go forth and conquer your dreams.
@ Novaseeker, Johnycomelately I spent all of my *formative years* binging on porn instead of having sex with actual girls. Porn, intentionally or not, absolutely affects the brains of men, ESPECIALLY developing boys. This is unprecedented in history. High speed Internet porn offers a level of addictiveness in voyeuristic sexual behavior that was never available before in history. Do porn addicted, incel men really have the capacity to gauge what they “want” if they’ve only gone on porn and never banged a hot chick in their entire life? Can a man really say he chooses to go on porn out… Read more »
@ sentient, ar I only wait for IOI’s with the 20 something hb8+ girls, It’s not a confidence issue, it’s not wanting to come across as “eeww creepy old guy” really I suppose I should just implement IDGAF and be congruent with it. I guess I’m guilty of going for the “lower hanging fruit” of 35-45 year old still attractive milf/cougar types where I have a proven track record and real DGAF attitude because I know “success ” is replicable in this demographic. I guess I was hoping internalising the red pill and having solid frame would be enough, and… Read more »
Yeah, buddy, you are ego-buffering by waiting for IOIs from young women. It’s time for you to step up and take more risks.
I only wait for IOI’s with the 20 something hb8+ girls, It’s not a confidence issue, it’s not wanting to come across as “eeww creepy old guy” really I suppose I should just implement IDGAF and be congruent with it. If you have doubts, or think of yourself as “creepy old guy” then you will project that. If you take the approach that RSD and Blaximus and YaReally and Sentient all have a variation of: self-amusement, confidence, bringing value / adding value to the situation…then age is not much of a factor. That Mystery vid breaks it down, MM would… Read more »
Play “” I can see that you are used to getting your own way with women” .” Golden… and a 22YO will say the same kind of things to you… seriously. You are catnip for them at your age and a strong frame. I posted last month about bouncing a 20 something stripper I met in a bar. can’t find it, Rollo the site is hard to search the comments? She said something to me like “the way you were talking about all the places you’ve been to. it was so nonchalant. That was cool” while we were holding hands… Read more »
Still, ya gotta do as you will on your own terms if you are your own mental point of origin. My concern about such posts is that it’s confirmatory to MGTOWs and incels an lower SMV guys, like they can feel righteous in their victimhood. Ditto for the hackneyed SMP talk in the comments. I mean, you haven’t learned that you can tilt women’s mating selection criteria to your favor regardless of how attractive you are, well you haven’t been listening at all. To be here and claiming “all the mean womynz just fuck all the hawt guys and no… Read more »
“like they can feel righteous in their victimhood”
Choice is key
The thing is Play they are JUST GIRLS. They never grow up. Those 35-45 YO’s are still as girly inside as the 18YOs… they still just want to have fun, have feelz, are sexual etc. The same things you do with them work on 20’s girls, but you need to give yourself permission to act like you are deserving of them. More than deserving that you expect that they are into you and you are filtering them out… looking to pick a peach…
There is a game saying to game like you are 25 no matter what your age…
what you must avoid at all cost Play is being judgmental (discerning and qualifying/disqualifying is fine, but no moral judgment) and acting paternal… giving them life lessons and advice like you were their dad. It is very easy to do because they will lap it up and you feel like you are building comfort and rapport… and you are but you are killing attraction as well. Avoid the life lessons talk. And make sure you sexualize early in the conversation, easy via innuendo and for me I am a great believer in early confident boyfriend posture kino… Immediately separates you… Read more »
@ ar Regarding the “comfort zone” mentality you don’t need to get anyone else to analyse it you are 100% correct. I guess because I’m doing better than all my friends my age and have good plates that take care of my needs, I don’t need to leave my comfort zone, we are not as hypergamous as women, if we are being taken care of and drama is at a minimum we just roll with it. I’ve said it before I just see women as for “entertainment purposes only” now I won’t remarry and am not really interested in an… Read more »
the workplace, schools and campuses, are made completely asexual This is why the wise man carves out a spot in one of the few places which aren’t asexual – like performing at a location in a club or such. This is one of several reasons I started a band as I got older – first was that since I was getting older, meeting they type of women I prefer to bed was becoming more and more work, and more and more of those women were looking for something long-term and wanted to hit the breaks on slutting it up, in… Read more »
@ scrib I think of sexual “zoning” the same way I think of friend “zoning”: men ultimately do it to themselves by accepting it. I’ll never forget going to my dad ONCE for advice about a girl. There was a hot girl that worked at a supermarket I went to a lot. I asked him what I should do about it and he just shut me down saying “You can’t just approach random girls. Is she your friend? Do you know her? What the hell are you going to say? Forget about it. That’s not realistic. You can’t just talk… Read more »
@ sentient “Give myself permission to act like I’m deserving of them” I know I am deserving of them but I guess I just question why they would choose a 48 year old man albeit one in good gshape because I sure as fuck wouldn’t choose a 48 year old still OK cougar over a 25 year old hb8+ so why should they when they have options? And they do have options! I just don’t see these late 40’s early 50’s /young hb8+ pairings anywhere I go in my city so it’s not a case of I haven’t understood the… Read more »
@ Kaminsky Re: female obesity. If we can relegate smokers, not just out of the building, but even banish them off the property for some fiction of health, create nation-wide campaigns discouraging smoking, shame smokers with pictures of catcher’s-glove like faces and summer teeth, and generally hate on them, I believe we could/must institute shame as a female improvement technique. If any creature is prone to the affects of shaming and group-think it is a woman. In the hospital, I’ve addressed younger women’s obesity, and how it limits the ability to treat them and ultimately endangers their successful outcome. You’d… Read more »
Embrace the beauty of the void.
I know I am deserving of them but I guess I just question why they would choose a 48 year old Not sure how you can write this Play and conclude you think you are deserving? Cats are not dogs… you can’t use your dog logic in assessing cat motivations… I don’t see any evidence of men my age having this success except on here. Yeh well this is a self selecting group. Look at the the club owners and restaurant owners to start with, they are the most likely to display this kind of pairing… but that shouldn’t be… Read more »
@Play – Sentient has your number, and trust me, I get it. But this sentence telegraphs how you actually value yourself and as long as you feel this way, you will have trouble. “I know I am deserving of them but I guess I just question why they would choose a 48 year old man albeit one in good gshape because I sure as fuck wouldn’t choose a 48 year old still OK cougar over a 25 year old hb8+ so why should they when they have options? And they do have options!” If you felt entitled to their pussy… Read more »
I don’t know what we are saying here but it sounds as if we mean to say that MGTOW though being a male strategy to fight hypergamy, it turns out to have an unexpected outcome, favouring hypergamous western woman because it allows men to naturally sort themselves out into the fuckables and the unfuckables, doing the “sorting out” job for her?
Just dropping this here… yeah…
@Sentient, glad you posted that FR from Heartiste. I missed the nuance of your motives all these many moons. Wifey was shit testing with sex! So your FR proved it was her and not you, but afterward do you think she sensed a change, thus gave up the V and gave up most of the shit testing? Do you feel you have to continue with the sarging forever to keep this effect going? Or is it now just the joy of variety that keeps you going?
Hasn’t this “zoning” concept been covered in “A League of Your Own”? I can respect the Genome’s desire to keep chickens out of the garden, but man those rules don’t apply to me.
Newlyaloof Culum asked a similar question at the time, was posted further down that thread… My response With the wife it was more fluctuation two steps forward one back for a while. Due to proximity and 25+ years of history. Plus what I’ve discovered is you can only game a wife so far at this age due to hormonal issues/perimenopause etc. When I got rid of all neediness the validation issues went away. Understand nothing is ever about “you” with women (new or old lol). It is all about them and what they are feeling at that moment. Emotion is… Read more »
@Sentient, cool, I get it now. Do what you want, when you want to … because life only has so many whens, after all.
Calibration question: men, please rate Jennifer Lawrence based on pix from the Daily Mail article on the HB 1 to HB 10 scale. List the pic you use.
she is at best a 7… In the white dress made up. Look at the upper arm and her hips… chipmunk cheeks… she is waiting to explode like the Appalachian girl she is…
Mandatory female orthodonture work leaves them all with the same compressed ’round” wide but straight and bright mouth… which makes there faces more masculine as well…
Thanks for the shout-out. Credit goes to Novaseeker for coining the term “sexual zoning” in the comments section of HUS back in the days when that shitpile was somewhat readable.
Jennifer Lawrence a 7? Really….for me she is at best max. 6
As fucked up as this possibility sounds, I would not be surprised if the future of the SMP involves so many game unaware men that they realize the only way to get sex from a woman is to rape them. These game unaware men would be the result of the feminist agenda shaming men and taunting them for not trying. There’s not a chance this will happen. All social trends – the obesity epidemic, dropping testosterone levels, the spread of internet porn – are pointing in the opposite direction. Rape rates have dropped massively in the last couple of decades.… Read more »
“Mandatory female orthodonture work . . .”
Artificially restores the genetic pattern that most these days lose during development. The Narrow, triangular face, like the broadening waist, is an affect of the artificial diet. It’s the sugar and grains face.
I have to disagree. In every office of decent size, there’s a minority of guys fucking the women.
Indeed, which is why I added that “hot men are allowed to get away with more”.
@ Anonymous Reader
Yes, that’s correct. The entire culture is held hostage to women’s feelwings.
> Yes, that’s correct. The entire culture is held hostage to women’s feelwings. That’s because men are too cowardly to stand up to women and say enough we will tolerate no more but they don’t. I’ve heard this opinion many times, and thought about it a bit. I don’t think it’s cowardice, rather it’s simple indifference, as pathetic as that obviously seems to many men. The possibility that they’re the ones who’re supposed to salvage this culture doesn’t even occur to most men, mostly because they don’t treasure it. Standing up to women makes sense when you value them enough… Read more »
In any case, what I see in the pictures that accompany the article is that Lawrence has passed prime. Whatever her rating is now, it’s a point lower than it used to be, and it ain’t ever going up again.
Last fuckable day looming on the horizon.
Hence a major reason why the FI, despite all of its lip service against porn, really hasn’t done much at all in the way of concrete actions to eliminate it or even restrict it meaningfully — it’s a critical safety valve on which the integrity of the entire contemporary social edifice depends.
It’s a major reason, but I don’t think it’s the main reason. The main reason is that the porn industry provides a livelihood to a large number of women who wouldn’t be employed otherwise.
@kfg Orthotropics, Dr. Mew. Diet is only part of the picture. More so than a genetic pattern, poor oral posture and modern orthodontics and wisdom tooth removal destroy our natural facial structure, which also affects how our airways develop. Breastfeeding also plays an early and important role in facial development as well. Brian Palmer wrote extensively about it. The coveted masculine jawline is actually a birthright taken away from men by modern culture. Everyone will look different, naturally, but our jaws are meant to develop in such a way that allows room for all our wisdom teeth. Almost all modern… Read more »
The zoo keeper mentioned that he had to introduce the male animal (if memory serves me correctly I think it was a large bird of some sort) to socialise with females for mating, otherwise past a certain age of non-socialisation the male becomes incapable of mating. Past a certain age of non female interaction the male literally doesn’t know how to mate and doesn’t want to mate.
A similar phenomenon has been observed among African elephants, the difference being that young males basically form aggressive gangs and terrorize other animals when not raised in their normal social environment.
“The main reason is that the porn industry provides a livelihood to a large number of women who wouldn’t be employed otherwise.” And, contrary to popular opinion, I do not find that the majority of women in porn are particularly attractive. The best looking women can make far more money without making porn. The few in porn who are really attractive tend to have gotten into before they realized what their true market value was, which they ruin by going into porn. I suspect a good many women go into porn because they know they are not that attractive and… Read more »
” . . . young males basically form aggressive gangs and terrorize other animals when not raised in their normal social environment.”
Welcome to Detroit.
Here’s the thing: as disgusting as that probably sounds, the fact is that those depressed, intolerable land whales won’t change their ways unless men start incentivizing them to do so. And if this culture doesn’t change, most of the young girls today will also grow up to be whales. There’ll be even more of them. Women are intrinsically passive, and never change their behavior unless they see an immediate, clear, tangible personal benefit.
First, a warning, gentlemen: Sady Hawkins Day is coming up soon, November 15th. Every year. Schedule your flights to Bolivia as recommended. Also, the word “No” is going to be your best friend over the next 30 days or so, at least. Aside from that, run like hell fellas. And try to warn the others. Second, a young, attractive, kind, self-confident man who considers himself a solid 7 (because all of his male and female mates told him so), still runs a significant risk of encountering ANY women of interest, approaching her, failing to meet her arbitrary standards and then… Read more »
“.. Women are intrinsically passive, and never change their behavior unless they see an immediate, clear, tangible personal benefit. ”
And that’s exactly the core problem. One the one hand the female don’t see a benefit to change their behavior due to “Father State” who is playing the provider role.
On the other hand, it’s the same with the men. They see the whales, shitty attitudes, CC-Rider, Single-Mums, Post-Wall low-smv women en masse, therefore they come to the conclusion: ” the squeeze is not worth the juice” !!
Et voila…welcome to our modern days.
At this rate, rape will almost completely disappear from Western societies in a few decades, and almost all rapes that do happen will be committed by African and Asian minorities.
Which can only lead to feminists tripling down on further restrictions on men, because “one in every two women is rayyyped!” or some stuff like that.
@Paydontplay Sentient said: “What you are missing is the structure of attraction and how to trigger it… the conscious understanding of it in real time. all easily obtained and works if you practice it. Think of game as the language of female seduction, a verbal and physical language which is bounded by Red Pill truths of evobio/psych… So where you are now you understand some of the language, but not yet fluent, missing syntax, idioms, dialect etc. A really quite good book about these topics is Franco’s “Manual of Seduction”. It is well worth the read to understand the the… Read more »