Sexual Zoning

sex_zone

Höllenhund brought up an interesting thought a few weeks ago:

This reminds me of something I wanted to ask here in general. The general narrative about MGTOW in the ‘sphere is that they are “avoiding women”. A more general narrative pushed in the mainstream media by Zimbardo, Hymowitz, Milo and other blue/purple pill journalists is that a growing number of young men are avoiding women.

What does “avoiding women” precisely mean in the current socio-cultural context in the West? The word “avoid” entails some sort of active, deliberate, protective measure. My problem with that is that the “avoidance of women”, or a breakaway from women doesn’t look like that at all in practice today, because the social context of male-female interaction has changed completely in the last 2-3 decades.

This is something our pal Novaseeker has described before. In the bygone Western social system, young people were expected to regularly interact with one another in controlled, regulated environments, in a way that fostered productive, long-term, monogamous, assortative relationships. This was a sort of “holistic” milieu, so to speak, where young people treated one another as potential future partners, sexual and otherwise, in a socially regulated manner, in all cases when they were permitted to interact. This was even the norm in workplaces where both men and women were present. The average man found a girlfriend through his extended family or social circle, because families and social circles were normally large.

What we have today is the complete opposite: “sexual zoning”. Some mixed-sex environments, like the workplace, schools and campuses, are made completely asexual – sterile, so to speak. No sexualized interactions are permitted to take place. This is demanded by law and expected by society. In such environments, you’re supposed to treat members of the opposite sex strictly as colleagues or professionals, non-sexual beings. (Hot men are allowed to get away with more, of course, but that’s another issue.) Other mixed-sex environments, on the other hand, like nightclubs, are expected to be full-on sexual. Everybody there knows that all interactions entail the future possibility of casual sex. It’s basically a meat market. You’re expected to hit on girls, and girls expect to be hit on by attractive men. Socializing in these environments requires action, engagement. If you want to find a partner, either just for sex or something more, you have to go there, you have to have Game etc.

In other words, avoidance of women in the old days was an anti-social act of disengagement that was frowned upon. Today, avoidance of women merely means that you’re not expending excess energy and time to do certain things. It’s an “action” with few or no social repercussions – you won’t be socially ostracized or something. But technically it’s not an action. You’re basically “avoiding” women by not hitting the clubs on Saturday night. You’re avoiding them through simple inaction. You can have a full-time job, or go to college, have a social circle, have hobbies, buddies etc., basically a normie life, and still “avoid” women.

I thought this was an interesting observation because there is a stark contradiction in how these sexual zones are presented to men by women. From an old books perspective, men are still expected to be the initiators. It is incumbent upon men to be the sex that approaches and expresses intimate interest in women, and men who don’t, or who fail to build themselves into acceptable mates for women are shamed as being perpetual adolescents or just “giving up.” Our feminine-primary social mandate still promotes the expectation that men will prepare for, and initiate with, women.

However, from a new books perspective men are, as Höllenhund illustrates, expected to know their place in respect to whatever sexual zone they find themselves in, as well as having an understanding of how they are perceived in the SMP. So, in an asexual zone such as a college campus or the workplace, men are expected to know their SMV and act or not act accordingly. Men not meeting or exceeding what would make for an optimized Hypergamy with women are expected not to initiate or approach. In fact, this expected understanding extends to sexual zones and fosters the avoidance Höllenhund talks about here.

For all of the handwringing from feminine-primary gender pundits about men ‘dropping out’ of life or the SMP, it is this contradiction in atmosphere that promotes the avoidance. Hypergamy, being the prime directive of westernized societies, is figuratively best served when women are in complete and unilateral control of sexual selection. Thus, we see laws and social dictates installed to encourage men to self-select themselves out of the process and make this selection easier for women. Men will be shamed for not initiating and not approaching, but simultaneously be held accountable for as much as hate crimes if they step outside what they are expected to know are their appropriate sexual zones.

http://time.com/3852117/millennials-sex-parents-boomers/

Recently there’s been a spate of articles all attempting to explain why millennials aren’t getting after it in an age when it’s never been easier to hook up. Try as they will, nearly all of the explanations fail to account for how sexual zoning has affected the sexual marketplace today. Millennials have the ‘hook up generation’ reputation, but statistically they’re not doing much fucking.

Noah Patterson, 18, likes to sit in front of several screens simultaneously: a work project, a YouTube clip, a video game. To shut it all down for a date or even a one-night stand seems like a waste. “For an average date, you’re going to spend at least two hours, and in that two hours I won’t be doing something I enjoy,” he said.

It’s not that he doesn’t like women. “I enjoy their companionship, but it’s not a significant part of life,” said Patterson, a Web designer in Bellingham, Washington.

He has never had sex, although he likes porn. “I’d rather be watching YouTube videos and making money.” Sex, he said, is “not going to be something people ask you for on your résumé.”

One aspect that these largely millennial writers themselves seem oblivious to is the complexities of sexual zones that shift constantly for guys. In 2016 hooking up is easy, we’ve got Red Pill awareness and we have instantaneous communication, but what we don’t have are clearly defined sexual zones. Put a guy whose social intelligence is sub par into the wrong zone and it’s understandable that he has better things to occupy himself with that he ‘enjoys’.

This is a common refrain from MGTOWs. It’s usually some variation of  “why should I waste my time trying to untangle some girl’s head just to put myself at risk of a sexual harassment or rape accusation?”

Fred Flange had this comment a few weeks ago:

Co-sign, and this “soft MGTOW” observation ties in nicely with the WashPost’s “no sex please we’re collegiate” article. MGTOW is now socially subsidized and easy to implement: just do nothing! At college, don’t engage in class, or even better, “attend” the lectures on-line. Say no more in class or lab than you must, then leave. Start no convos, you won’t be dragged into any. All of this goes for cubicle workers: in the lunchroom, stare at your phone, or eat at your desk, or if you can, get outside but go alone. No feelings caught, no feelings hurt. Everybody gets nothing, therefore everybody wins.

Eventually you can learn the fine art of disappearance in urban settings: yes you occupy space, but other than someone bumping into you, it is possible to go anywhere without your registering with anyone in the vicinity, not even cops. You can switch it on and off like a light.

One possible corollary to look for: see if the “bros before homes” shaming begins to die down. It should. Because before that you patriamalarkey-preaching Tumblr-inas insisted you wanted that cheesy-bro to go? He’s GONE! Soft MGTOW is the mandated social paradigm, outside of “safe social zones” like public streets, malls, clubs, etc. plus in some workplaces and colleges it’s law. You’re going to complain about men obeying the law?

There’s also no shortage of articles decrying the absence of boys and young men these days too. The frequent bugbear in these always point to guys ‘dropping out’ and playing X-Box all day. From America’s Lost Boys:

Young men, significantly more so than young women, are stuck in life. Research released in May from the Pew Center documented a historic demographic shift: American men aged 18-30 are now statistically more likely to be living with their parents than with a romantic partner. This trend is significant, for one simple reason: Twenty- and thirtysomething men who are living at home, working part-time or not at all, are unlikely to be preparing for marriage. Hurst’s research says that these men are single, unoccupied, and fine with that—because their happiness doesn’t depend on whether they are growing up and living life.

Now, granted, this article presumes men’s adulthood ought to be measured by his capacity to get involved with a woman, support a family and maintain a steady job. It’s very hard for writers who tackle this topic to pull their heads out of the old books reasonings. Thus, the go-to answer to the question of ‘why do guys drop out?’ is video games. It’s far easier to goof on men as a whole if they can be made to look juvenile, lazy or stupid to the point men not knowing what’s good for them.

It would take a real effort to tackle the larger reasons as to why men drop out, and men like Samuel James (article author) would be forced to acknowledge the disincentives for men to participate in what his old books reasonings tell him is some mutually beneficial arrangement. Those disincentives don’t paint women in a very flattering light, so it’s much easier to dismiss them as garden variety misogyny.

The drop out generation are content with their lot in life because they’ve accepted the realities of a social order that debases men and manhood to being appliances to better serve women’s imperatives. And the risks of investing themselves in a relationship or finding the inner will to become better men for the sake of “growing up” are significant when the rules of engagement and the acceptable sexual zones are constantly changing.

The Damage Done By ‘Mattress Girl’

“Even in less extreme situations, young men are more skeptical of women’s ability or propensity to consent to sex, which some women on campus consider demeaning.

“I find that men are more and more interested in ensuring that I’m consenting before sex, which would seem like a good thing,” Columbia student Dylan Hunzeker said. “But sometimes I don’t necessarily feel that way. Especially when I have to answer a man’s question: ‘are you sure you’re not too drunk?’ Or ‘you want to have sex with me?’ In a sense, it’s annoying and debilitating to be constantly questioned about whether or not I have agency and am a sexual human being.”

“Men are scared of women on campus now, and fear breeds anger and prejudice. Women are frustrated by men, which inspires a lack of desire to collaborate for solutions.”

I would argue that a large majority of men accused of sexual harassment or even just suspected of impropriety are men who’ve found themselves in an environment they believed was an acceptable sexual zone. We are fast approaching a time when all zones will be so arbitrary and ambiguous that every environment with sexual potential will be avoided. This will have the effect of putting women into unilateral control of their own Hypergamy. It will be a state of Sadie Hawkins world – only women will make approaches on men and only those who match her Hypergamous ideal, an ideal fostered and reinforced by a steady diet of social media ego inflation.

It’s ironic that authors bemoaning the drop out generation of men never acknowledge the other side of the disincentives for men – those generated by a feminine-primary social narrative – the generation of women who remain unmarried well into their middle age. When this is explored, once again, it’s the result of the juvenile, ridiculous men that same narrative has created for itself.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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having a bad day
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@scray you say potato…lol i know exactly what you said/meant… i was just joking around with you…lol… buuut you (or me…lol) still have to have the mindset i put forth, or your prescription won’t work… everything else is just calibration… if you just say ‘I WILL ACT HIGH VALUE I AM SO HIGH VALUE’ no matter what well, HIGH VALUE people do different things in different situs based on how the people around them view them. you see? i agree completely… that’s WHY i’m so AWESOME!!!…lol so you can’t choose the HIGH VALUE behavior in every situation unless you can… Read more »

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@Sentient, @habd

can definitely apply dance floor game with those pointy elbows ftw!

scray
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@habd

i know exactly what you said/meant… i was just joking around with you…lol… buuut you (or me…lol) still have to have the mindset i put forth

ya…

that’s what a) is. the mindset.

and yeah b) and c) are about calibration.

I get the jokes but like, there’s a lot of misinformation so new guys can get confused easily.

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scribblerg I think Anon is missing that these mating selection cues are firing off subconsciously in women in large part, these are innate responses just like how being attractive triggers a different response in a woman. No, dude, I get that. It’s just that there’s better ways to DHV than burning cash, in my opinion. That a man who wants to “be visible” to an HB 8 would be better off doing so with inner Game than by spending money. That was my point, along with the notion that most men are invisible to HB 8’s – which really is… Read more »

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@scray nah, all we were doing is just rating girls on an objective 1-10 scale. Then you just barged in calling us keyboard jockies and shit dudes just talk shit lol. they can say ‘they’re just trying to find the truth’ but the evidence more or less points toward “dick measuring at all times.” nah, you are just trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Anytime anyone tries to come up with an objective measure of girls, you just shout “KEYBOARD JOCKEY KEYBOARD JOCKEY.” You’re like a feminist who see rape everywhere, just saying hey to a… Read more »

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@Disgruntled Yeah, given that – you were too kind to her To be fair, the little bit I mentioned there was at the end of a rant where I proceeded to take a dump on her credentials, eviscerate her (shabbily constructed) argument directly, THEN point out that if she wants me to give a shit about her opinion as a woman in a bar she needs to ditch the weight. She was quite literally crying on the bar after I was done, and the dude that had come in with her grabbed my wrist in an attempt to physically intimidate… Read more »

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@hank nah, all we were doing is just rating girls on an objective 1-10 scale. Then you just barged in calling us keyboard jockies and shit first of all, I started the entire discussion on the rating by bringing up the weight distribution lol so nah dude I was here first. second of all, I explained the diff between personal shit (what you’re calling the “objective” scale) and empirical reality AT THE START lol. Now, rather than insulting us, you could have simply pointed out that “hey you guys may feel girls are at x rating, but bear in mind… Read more »

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@hank Now, for your original question, as to what all this says about us, it says that guys doing FRs are doing better than they think. If a 6 is really an 8…then that means guys like culum and me are getting IOIs and pulling 8’s. That means our game is better than we think and/or our looks are better than we think as a result of not being fat fucks. more shit that I anticipated at the outset: “Guys, bottom line is this: if you can score consistently with the average young american woman (1-6 hrs face time, no… Read more »

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@scray

I get the jokes but like, there’s a lot of misinformation so new guys can get confused easily.

good point…

good luck!

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@anon That a man who wants to “be visible” to an HB 8 would be better off doing so with inner Game than by spending money. That was my point, along with the notion that most men are invisible to HB 8’s – which really is beyond question. Scray decided to be all argumentative, and maybe ego-invested stubborn, so he took the opposite position. ASD is just sperging. You may be doing the same thing. Tight, you’ve resorted to lying. Here, since you forgot how to read—> Me: It doesn’t matter if she “provides for herself.” Women respond to dudes… Read more »

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and lol, another white chick just hit on me.

lol me and culum need to trade. redhead hit on me yesterday, another one just now

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@scray nah your whole vibe has been agressive the whole time and starting shit where all that’s required is to point out some subtle differences here and there. You have a whole vibe of us vs them and that’s the shit that gets tiresome just look at how you approach things versus say yareally teaching a noob. your like a liberal who wants to give some real talk to some conservatives by showing up in assless chaps and a dildo up his ass. lol, you are gonna get a lot further if you just put on a suit. this is… Read more »

kfg
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The average woman is 20 lbs. fatter in 2016 than she was in 1960. Got it.

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It’s just two different rating systems, I think. The 1-10 HB system of rating women long, long predates SMV type analysis, and it does have the idea of some kind of objective standard to it. If you’re talking strict SMV, of course the term itself is about market value, so it has to be relative to what the market is assigning as value. So these are two different things. Some people think it’s a waste of mental energy to even consider the first one, whereas others don’t because they can distinguish between them easily enough. It’s one of those things… Read more »

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@nova It’s just two different rating systems, I think. lol, that’s what I’ve been saying. but scray wants to come in and call us all keyboard jockies just because we’d like to spend a few minutes chatting about the objective variant. You can come in and say sure, objective is nice, but make sure you also consider the smp in todays environment. That’s all well and good and is good info. Or you can be crybully and call everyone who doesn’t feel like talking about the SMP 24/7 a KJ and then act surprised when everyone thinks you are an… Read more »

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kfg . . . pursue what we can measure, whether it is actually relevant or not, and perhaps just a proxy of a proxy of a confounder. Framingham Heart study is full of that stuff, and “cholesterol causes CHD” is one example. But hey, statins made a lot of money for big pharma, so it’s all good. I buy my own ferritine test, because the insurance companies decided some years ago that iron didn’t matter, especially in men. But they will test cholesterol 6 ways from Sunday. Because “best practice”. A lot of what is called “science” is like a… Read more »

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I don’t know/care about the fight going on so I’m just going to rant about the rating scale in general lol this isn’t aimed at anyone specific, I just skimmed the jist of the posts and have time to type some shit up right now about rating systems in general: @scray “uhhh if dudes are giving the attention associated with a 7 to her, then she’s a 7. you don’t get to be like NAH BRO SHE’S REAAAAAALY A 6. Nah, if the market is moving her way, then the market has spoken. Sorry. Now maybe the 2016 market is… Read more »

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@novaseeker It’s just two different rating systems, I think. Yes, something I said at the outset. Some people think it’s a waste of mental energy to even consider the first one, whereas others don’t because they can distinguish between them easily enough. It’s one of those things that people are not going to agree about, I think. One has facts supporting it. The only fact supporting the other one is that men DISAGREE on the “objective rankings” past like a 7 anyway. It’s for the birds. It’s like fatties talking about their perfect man, George Clooney or Brad Pitt. @hank… Read more »

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@AR

A lot of what is called “science” is like a drunk looking for his car keys under a street light half a block from where he dropped them, because the light there is better.

i always thought leeches got a bad rap…lol

good luck!

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@Ya

Yeah cosign all of that. I only use looks to kind of illustrate the concepts cause people really can’t follow along unless you work in that paradigm wrt value and stuff lol.

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habd my buddy upthread went through ALL the churchian hoops to ‘fix’ his marriage (long term one too, like 25 years…adult kid so he didn’t get stuck with child support… but that whole situ reads like one of Rollo’s hypos…lol…)… ‘love languages’, ‘counseling’, etc… dude really put in the effort… he even lost weight for a while… soon-to-be-ex HATES his guts…and wants to ‘MAKE HIM PAY’… WE all know WHY that is… he just can’t understand it… and at this point doesn’t really want to… i just can’t get it across though… It hit me today that a lot of… Read more »

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@ sentient

Thanks for the pointers I am reading the Manual of seduction by Franco.
It really ties in with everything I have learnt here and after a few reads (I’m an old dog) I’m sure it will give me a better understanding of basic game.

Soon I will be unstoppable!

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@Anonymous Reader “It hit me today that a lot of “counselling” both religious and not religious basically assumes attraction exists. Choreplay is one of their go-to things, at best that is Comfort. In fact, a lot of the stuff counsellors suggest is Comfort. So counselling is like a man running MM who tries to blow past all Attraction stages and cut right to Comfort, how does that work out?” Yup. Just like “be nice and bring her flowers” is great when you’re so high-value that you intimidate her (aka the guy she pictures when you ask her how a guy… Read more »

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Having read all this rating shit, I agree it would be nice to have a common standard, like the metric system, to be able to evaluate chicks, so that we could have a common calibration of data for advancing the development of game etc. Sadly it seems there are too many variables to be able to do that. Such as: environment, it’s all ham beasts in some locations alcohol content of the man Sperm pressure in the man Girls self opinion And of course their behavior, there are some girls I think are great until they open their mouth and… Read more »

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habd i always thought leeches got a bad rap…lol Funny thing about that. There’s a 35 year old paper that points the finger at “too much iron” as the major cause for heart attacks. A major source of iron in the Western diet is red meat. Red wine contains polyphenols that can carry iron through the GI tract, keeping the iron out of the bloodstream. There’s supplements that will chelate iron out of the body, slowly, but if a man or a post-menopausal woman needs to get iron down the easy and fast way to do it is to donate… Read more »

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@kfg

http://www.healthline.com/health/what-is-leech-therapy

lol…i should have known you’d pull out something like that…lol…

good luck!

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Scray
Tight, you’ve resorted to lying.

Dude, you’re all over the place here picking arguments.

Did someone piss in your beer, did your girl walk out, is she on the rag, or what?

Maybe you need some of this?

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@HABD:

Flaked obsidian scalpels are coming back into vogue too. Trends are cyclical. Next thing you know they’ll be sacrificing the winners of basketball games.

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@Anonymous Reader I buy my own ferritine test, because the insurance companies decided some years ago that iron didn’t matter, especially in men.” As some might not know ferritin is a test for assessing iron stores. And I assume you are trying to keep yours at or below a certain level. What is your target number that you want? And how much do you pay for it at the retail cost level? (As an aside, 80% of my young pre-menopausal telogen effluvium (a type of hair loss) sudden significant hair loss patients without other medical causes have low ferritin levels.… Read more »

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@AR It hit me today that a lot of “counselling” both religious and not religious basically assumes attraction exists. FI = attraction is a CHOICE…lol… Long winded versions of “just be yourself” interspersed with Comfort is what a lot of “relationship help” writing boils down to. yep, that shit was also leading ME up the step to the abattoir 5 years ago… i did ALL that shit too…lol…just dug the open grave deeper… but i didn’t have any other options… or even any idea for potential possibilities of other options… until i found ‘game’…thankfully, i was ‘planning for failure’ and… Read more »

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@anon

Dude, you’re all over the place here picking arguments

More like picking you up off the floor after….

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then

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then

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then we took a break and played some basketball but…

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you still ended up on your ass

is this you?

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…at least the black is slimming.

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Well those are Boston 8s… Lol.

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@kfg

@HABD:

Flaked obsidian scalpels are coming back into vogue too. Trends are cyclical. Next thing you know they’ll be sacrificing the winners of basketball games.

yea, good luck finding any virgins in 2016…lol…

good luck!

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@YaReally while most guys wouldn’t even get INTO that club, let alone know how to befriend Luke and get access to those girls…they would just go to the shitty pub down the street with the average crowd and then cry about how women are all fat lol There may be SOME clubs where 9s & 10s go which are exclusive, but I have no trouble finding hot girls in the club where I go…not many 10s, to be sure, but a couple of 9s aren’t uncommon, with quite a few 8s and a horde of 7s & 6s and some… Read more »

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hank holiday
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@yareally @scray Everything else is either mental masturbation (either positively, like for bonding with eachother like hank’s original post was probably for yup. that’s it. all we were doing. just for fun. then scray jumps in with all this bullshit. no need for an argument at all. its the same thing whenever I work on shit here, like the whole cold number shit. then everyone comes out of the fucking woodwork psychoanyalzing me an shit. dude, its just to get a bit more practice, and I spent all of 5 min on it. or sentient complaining about “hank you aren’t… Read more »

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@hank “I can’t find any that I can afford” Can you do a roommate situation, at least until you can save up for a better place? Type “RSD LAIR (your city name)” into Google if you have no other options, you might be able to find a PUA who needs a roommate or can hook up a fellow newbie PUA with a place. A lot of us understand the crazy sacrifices we make to get to better cities to game in lol Plan out how you can ask for an extension incase it comes to that, same as you’d plan… Read more »

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@hank
Also try the RooshV Forum. Someone there might have a place or be connected and able to help you get a place. Use a different account name for all of this so no one can link “hank” to the guy asking for help in X City lol plus they all probably hate me so don’t mention me lol

Sedfast forum guys are good dudes but I don’t know where you could post on there to ask for help, they don’t have a forum for travel/cities/meetups/etc

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Hank

Might need to change that tampon tonighy sweetie…

Hey check out the end of the Madison video Ya posted…hmmmm what does he say about doing the work? Do you need a transcript?

Lol.

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“Now, granted, this article presumes men’s adulthood ought to be measured by his capacity to get involved with a woman, support a family and maintain a steady job. ”

Funny how am man’s laying video games is refusing to grow up; but a woman’s nightclubbing and relationship dramas are celebrated with “You go girl!”-ism.

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Some good points here to comment on. I realize I don’t have any guy friends I can trust either. Weird. I hadn’t thought of that until it came up. I have one acquaintance who is Red Pill but is such a pussy hound he bangs anything and everything to the point I wouldn’t trust him around any girl I was gaming. Other guy friends I have are Blue Pill–they see the idea of neo-masculinity as “chauvinistic”. They’re the Tom Hanks “nice guy” types. Saw a video of him talking about how Trump’s “locker room talk” was actually something he said… Read more »

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@Hank

You could always see if there’s a 24/7 gym around live in your car take showers and stuff there. Do the dirty

Honestly anythings better than living in a place you hate.

You’ll work it out somehow

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Late to the party, still gotta catch up on comments…

Hank, even if you had 100% of the manosphere agree that Sarah Jessica Parker is a HB 5.438592846472… its still, and always will be, SUBjective. The only OBjective reality is the SMP.

Like it or hate it, the rest is mental masturbation and accomplishes nothing.

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“If you want to teach some one something, you probably shouldn’t treat them like an idiot. Then they just think you are an ass and should go fuck yourself.”

Quick game: who said the above, Mitch or Hank?
Lol love you man, but he was pretty calm and logical the whole time…

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AR

P D Mangan, a big favorite over at CH, is big on the effects of iron. Check out:

http://roguehealthandfitness.com/category/iron/

For a start.

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@ YaReally “And he knows how SHE probably views herself on the 1-10 scale, and can narrow that down more accurately from interacting with her, so he games her based on THAT, not based on what he thinks she is” “I just always assume that while I’m obviously a 10 (lol), by DEFAULT I have zero value. I’ll HAVE 10 value to ALL of them, when I can DHV enough in front of them to HAVE that value” Golden advice right there. Now that I think of it, it’s very similar to performing music. The average person might be impressed… Read more »

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@Walawala “I realize I don’t have any guy friends I can trust either. Weird. I hadn’t thought of that until it came up.” It is a Thing. I came about it as a by product of my pursuits. It became my redemption and salvation from Betatization. Guys getting together with guys are a bulwark against the FI. (Witness Trump in isolation, trying to battle the FI, with no other guy supporters, no other political establishment guy friends, going it alone. How does that make him and you feel? To not sit down every other week and be validated, or have… Read more »

Softek
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Forgot this link in the last post: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDOFIttS69I @ scrib As far as field reports: I’m lost on how to sexually escalate in-person, which is obviously where you actually get laid. Text gamed this girl for a while. She invites me over to her place to watch TV. Her mom is there, which throws me off when I show up. I immediately go into chode mode after I sit down next to the girl by asking her and her mom shit like “What do you like about this show?” or “How long have you been watching this?” Like default mode,… Read more »

hank holiday
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@all @yareally @blax @sentient @marriage guys Comments here are turning into a shitstorm. Firstly, I think we should drop the marriage discussion. Pretty much everything that can be said has already been said. All that happens is the usual suspects (yareally, blax, sentient) argue, say the same things, solve nothing, and end up eating up a bunch of space to no end. So I think we should just call a truce for the foreseeable future and stop discussing it — or at least arguing over it. A point here or there, but no 5 page essays anymore. If you have… Read more »

kaminsky
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@scray, How long have you been fasting 20 hours a day while being a lifter? Frankly, I don’t see how that is effective at all. I don’t buy the long term, daily HGH spikes from fasting. My guess is that it happens initially but then the body acclimates and tempers the response, eventually even having lower than average HGT/T levels due to the overall starvation mode it’s being put into everyday. I’ve read Mangan’s website and it’s cool. If my lifestyle/work schedule/kitchen allowed it then I would experiment with a 14-16 hour daily fast. (Dinner at 6, no evening snack,… Read more »

kaminsky
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kaminsky
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‘either’ instead of ‘easier’

Sun Wukong
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Sun Wukong
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@hank

Comments here are turning into a shitstorm.

Aaaaand this is why I was always rather reserved when others would comment that TRM was a cut above the rest of TRP community. Whether this shit will be worked through or we’ll just devolve in to a permanent shit show I’m not certain. Bottom line though is that every community has its messy period eventually. Question is whether everyone can get over being a bunch of faggots or if they’ll let it rip things apart.

Only time (and a bypassing a bunch of faggoty passive aggressive jabs at the other side) will tell.

Höllenhund
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Feminism is overhead on civilization. The prosperity Hollenhund refers to is national, while Nova is referring to more personal or perhaps family prosperity.

Yes, that’s what I meant.

kobayashii1681
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@MikePhil: “Rise above it. Get better. Invest in your own worth. Always swing for the fences.”

Well said…

EhIntellect
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Good Morning. Noticed this but I appreciate the chance to share this: Gifts to female employees and our romantic gifts to women are similar as they generally don’t appreciate the energy to provide it nor care where it came from. Countless times I’ve asked women in the RN lounge (I call it the whine room) where the freebie food came from. 9/10 x’s they insouciantly have no clue, and slowly push their way though another flat of doughnuts. They travel from satiated situation to satiated situation never really wondering why or how they are thriving. The burden of performance truly… Read more »

kobayashii1681
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@MikePhil: On the gynocentric zeitgeist: Exactly bruv….Men cannot afford to back down on what we prefer or are attracted to. We cannot also afford not to be RP aware. Any substantive change, among men, I think will happen covertly…but it’s inevitable…whether MGTOW or RP awareness, at some point the defeatist logic of blue pill aspirations will dawn on them, just like the wall hits women….

kfg
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“. . . I’ve asked women . . . where the freebie food came from. 9/10 x’s they insouciantly have no clue . . .” I have said a countable, but substantial, number of times, that most women have no clue what it is that men actually do. Hence they can insouciantly talk about men being “obsolete.” An example I have used is that women think one of the reasons that “toxic masculinity” is obsolete is because wild animals no longer need to be kept from the door, totally clueless that the reason why there is no literal wolf (and… Read more »

Sentient
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KFG

“Although that didn’t stop my “strong, independent” neighbour, when she woke up one morning to find a bear literally at her door, from calling a bunch of men to deal with it for her.”

Eeeeeeeeek! Spider Syndrome.

kobayashii1681
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@Blax:

“Lol

Lot’s of this around where I live.

Idk about HB rating, but I’d be in.”

Good lawd….In there like swim wear!!!!
Cosign on Ivanka….

having a bad day
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having a bad day
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@STRONGTEK

I’m lost on how to sexually escalate in-person, which is obviously where you actually get laid.

google search results…

http://vincent.mucchielli.free.fr/PUA/PUA/Escalation%20Ladder.pdf

https://www.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/hlmra/dicarlo_escalation_ladder_concise_and_emphasized/

(i haven’t vetted those comments, but seems legit…)

overall generally… = if in doubt… touch her…lol…

and if you are not ‘comfortable’ moving up to the next level, touch her somewhere else that is at the same level…

good luck!

scray
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@hank I brought up the chart FIRST and RELATED IT TO MY DISCUSSION FOR 2016. IN RESPONSE you guys started talking about blah blah blah the 9’s are 6’s and other shit. You rolled in and said: “We’re not here to note SMV in the present marketplace” when lol, THAT WAS THE EXACT STARTED DISCUSSION. To which I said —> “Lol so keyboard jockeying over shit that doesn’t reflect reality, i.e. current SMV value 2016. I don’t engage in that so I’ll leave y’all to it.” To which you respond —> “nah, all we were doing is just rating girls… Read more »

hank holiday
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hank holiday
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@all

is it just me or do all the more recent female singers sound really many. They all have super deep raspy voices.

Anonymous Reader
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Latest Hollywood trend – “scrotox” for an improved visual effect.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/scrotox-hollywoods-new-cosmetic-surgery-939455

Two thoughts:

First, practical: combine this with an injection of Vasalgel for one-stop shopping.

Second, philosophical: makes me think of the “Beautiful Ones” in Mouse Utopia.

kfg
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kfg
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@Hank:

I wouldn’t know. I stopped paying attention in the “Everybody Imitate Maria Carey” era.

EhIntellect
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EhIntellect
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Can’t we all just get along? Think of the children present.

newlyaloof
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newlyaloof
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These last few months, dudes seem to be losing their frame a bit with other dudes here trying to “win” the discussion instead of arguing the discussion.

It’s Friday! Good luck gentlemen!

walawala
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walawala
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Hit a party. Saw smoking hot HB9 I had met in April and gamed then. Danced, teased her then suggested we meet up. “I’ll see….” she said genuinely surprised I suggested it. I ignored that and kept dancing and chatting. Later I tried the “you look like an angry cat” routine….it works. She started playing along claiming she was more of a rabbit….etc. Perfect entry point to re-connect on the number she gave me 7 months back. “Angry cat?” I texted. That’s it so far. I hope you guys sitting on your butts go out and just start doing something…game… Read more »

having a bad day
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@AR Latest Hollywood trend – “scrotox” for an improved visual effect. from the link… Beverly Hills-based surgeon Jason Emer performs the procedure a few times a week and links its rise in popularity to the booming women’s genital plastic surgery market. Andrew Ordon, board-certified plastic surgeon and Emmy-nominated co-host of The Doctors, agrees. “This year there was a huge trend in vaginal rejuvenation,” says Ordon, who also is an assistant clinical professor of plastic surgery at the David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA. you know the SMP is getting tougher when guys think they need artificially bigger balls to… Read more »

hank holiday
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@Habd @AR

well its interesting you point out the scrotox stuff

animals that have a lot of sexual competition have bigger balls.

compare chimps to bonobos…bonobos pretty much just have sex all the time lol, so they have huge balls compared to the chimps. interesting how all this is playing out.

In fact, comparing our society to bonobo culture has a lot of similarities. I think jack donovan talked about this somewhere…

scray
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@kaminsky How long have you been fasting 20 hours a day while being a lifter? Frankly, I don’t see how that is effective at all Idk, maybe a year or so. It’s awesome! Idk why you don’t see how it’s effective. We can agree that the 16:8 fasting produces lean muscle gains and fat loss, so you’re just saying that 4 extra hours somehow harms that. http://translational-medicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12967-016-1044-0 I don’t buy the long term, daily HGH spikes from fasting. My guess is that it happens initially but then the body acclimates and tempers the response, eventually even having lower than average… Read more »

theasdgamer
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@HABD & all (i haven’t vetted those comments, but seems legit…) Yeah, basically good stuff in that escalation ladder. Men need to pay special attention to the ramp section, especially… “Do not start ramp with intention to finish later.” Women will feel that they were being led on and may experience Buyer’s Remorse. This is true even in marriage, not so surprisingly. My college gf may have broken up with me in part because she felt like I was leading her on. I was naïve in thinking that women are satisfied with just being fingered. They want the dick. I… Read more »

theasdgamer
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@intellect

Can’t we all just get along?

Mine’s long enough already.

EhIntellect
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Hypergamy weighs in on testicle size too. Apparently, small testicles are a tell of better parenting. Notice how the article prechews that we want small-testicled beta providers. Isn’t that what all women want? From multiple sources: “It might be more challenging for some men to do these kinds of caregiving activities, but that by no means excuses them,” said Dr Rilling, who led the study published in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. Men who are good fathers are more likely to have children who grow up to be happy and well-balanced adults, which is why it… Read more »

EhIntellect
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“Some research has shown that boys who experience childhood stress shift their life strategies. Or perhaps fatherless boys react to the absence of their father by adopting a strategy emphasizing mating effort at the expense of parenting effort,” Dr Rilling said.

Moral: Stress build character and game.

Novaseeker
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Notice how the article prechews that we want small-testicled beta providers. Isn’t that what all women want?

For parenting, sure.

Not for siring, however. AF/BB.

kfg
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kfg
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“People whine about how it’s ‘so slow’ because they don’t understand that lol after 2 years, your rate of muscle growth will just be freaking way slow compared to your rate of fat loss.”

Mike Menzter once did a slow recomp and compared the results to his bulk and cut, over the same time period.

Both methods came out within a pound of each other.

Body builders are psychologically attached to getting “fucking huuuuuge” in a hurry, but ignore that they then have to spend months losing most of it back again. It’s silly.

EhIntellect
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@ novaseeker

I forget, sarcasm doesn’t transfer well to the written word.

having a bad day
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having a bad day
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“but your honor… i really SHOULD get full custody… look how small my balls are!…”

lol…

good luck!

Blaximus
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Sentient
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newlyaloof

Lots of service girls are already wearing cat ears by me… easiest open ever thanks to Trump…

“So… You’re not afraid of being grabbed then…. huh?”

Anonymous Reader
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Scray, thanks for doing all the work to find pretty gifs for our entertainment. I’m sure it was a very satisfying and creative task for you to complete. There’s no doubt that you are indeed a legend in your own mind. But arguing with yourself doesn’t do much to keep up that “legend” image. Pay closer attention in the future. Okay? Okay! @hank holiday Don’t just look for apts. Even a cheaper motel room with a kitchenette is still better than where you are now. YaReally’s advice on roomate options is worth following, you don’t have to marry someone, just… Read more »

rugby11
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rugby11
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krpm0v_486k
19’s to 20’s

Anonymous Reader
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Othergrain P D Mangan, a big favorite over at CH, is big on the effects of iron. Check out: Thanks for the pointer, been reading him for a while but came to the news about iron -> bad for men via other research. Every man over 30 should be reading Mangan and paying attention to their iron levels. He has some good links on high intensity exercise that I need to read. One of Mangan’s most recent postings has some references that draw a possible causal line between too much iron & dementia. Although I have other sources that point… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
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Not Born This Morning
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This is off the post subject but relates to some of the comments. https://www.wired.com/2016/06/civis-election-polling-clinton-sanders-trump/ This article was very well worth reading. A few things that become blatantly self evident from reading it are as follows. The very well educated, socioeconomic elite and intellectual elite jointly strive for and continue to gain more control of the political process including strategy and polling. Poll results are reviewed by a select few before being released to the public. The entire process is being analyzed by extremely intelligent, highly educated analytical individuals including social scientists, political scientists, psychologists, physicists and mathematicians. Politicians and the… Read more »

sfer
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sfer
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Older dudes testicles hang lower. That is probably what the botox is for.

scray
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@Anon reader

There’s no doubt that you are indeed a legend in your own mind.

And an object of awe in yours.

But arguing with yourself doesn’t do much to keep up that “legend” image. Pay closer attention in the future. Okay? Okay!

Oh is that what you call quoting your words? Lol…I guess you love me so much you want to be a figment of my imagination. Thanks bro.

Anonymous Reader
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sfer
Older dudes testicles hang lower. That is probably what the botox is for.

T.M.I.

Shakazuluonu
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Shakazuluonu
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Höllenhund
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@kaminsky You were pretty clear that it’s a ‘hypothetical’ that alphas will clean women up so I’m guessing you don’t think it’s so. I don’t see alphas changing much. They are off and running with the male imperative of nearly unlimited, varied sexual partners. They are the last ones to seek change because the new game plays into their imperative more than anyone else One somewhat interesting, although probably still marginal development I’m seeing is that a growing number of older, middle-aged alphas seem to be disgusted by the current cultural landscape and social degeneracy. They’ve always attracted women and… Read more »

Höllenhund
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@Novaseeker Porn, and its ubiquity, feeds into this and amplifies it, without question. On the one hand guys are getting zoned, while on the other, they have strong drives due to testosterone. Porn is the outlet, and it sates the drive just enough to enable men to neuter their sexual response in de-sexed zones on a maintenance, on-going basis — it takes enough of the edge off of the sex drive such that these guys are able to obey the FI zoning more easily. Porn is only a symptom. To the extent that male porn addiction actually exists, it can… Read more »

scribblerg
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Re: The ShitStorm in the comments section – I’m never one for “can’t we all just get along” shit, as argument can be constructive. But what I’m seeing here more and more is unproductive argument that resolves nothing. I do notice a trend though. Scray and YaReally are often right, and are taken on by men here in picayune ways that don’t seem to be worthwhile. Just look at Scray here commenting on SMV scales, he basically offered this: ‘I’ve noticed many men in the manosphere have a warped sense of their own or women’s SMV and while personally there… Read more »

Kaminsky
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@Scray “We can agree that the 16:8 fasting produces lean muscle gains and fat loss, so you’re just saying that 4 extra hours somehow harms that.” Yeah, because 16 hours would be at an extreme end. Another fours goes to 20 which only allows four hours a day to eat 3000 calories minimum. Silly. That 3000 calories would pass like a cannonball too so now you’ve got colon issues to worry about. And a guy needs that kind of calories if he is really lifting and not just a frat-bro lifter type trying to add some cool looking strips of… Read more »

Kaminsky
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@Hollenhund, Young, breast-baring SJW assholes really have done the impossible: made me pissed off at breasts. I get what you’re saying. Empowered millenial idiots have completely removed mystique from the female form and the internet flesh parade has contributed greatly too. This is without even filtering it through the culture war either, (which only makes it worse once you do) I was at a beach party weekend style getaway about 6 weeks ago in Asia. A young, blond American girl was there who was very, very reminiscent of Kate Upton, especially body-wise. Tall with amazing 38E’s or so. Physical freak.… Read more »

kfg
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kfg
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“That 3000 calories would pass like a cannonball . . .” That 3000 Calories passes as CO2 in your breath. The only thing you put in your mouth that passes your colon is 0 Calories. Why are you eating a cannonball of indigestibles? And in fact most of what passes you didn’t even put in your mouth, although the more indigetibles you put in your mouth, the more that you didn’t put in your mouth passes. You are, by cell count, only 10% “you” and the other 90% makes up several pounds of your weight. It is that “other” that… Read more »

kfg
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kfg
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3,258 Calories of food weighs one pound, is about the size of a softball and none of it passes the colon.

kaminsky
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kaminsky
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Well okay. I just thought trying to knock down three full meals in four hours then going 21 hours without eating seems uncomfortable and silly. Nudge bandwagon health trends just a bit farther along and you’re in Emperor’s New Clothes territory before you know it.

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