Sexual Zoning

sex_zone

Höllenhund brought up an interesting thought a few weeks ago:

This reminds me of something I wanted to ask here in general. The general narrative about MGTOW in the ‘sphere is that they are “avoiding women”. A more general narrative pushed in the mainstream media by Zimbardo, Hymowitz, Milo and other blue/purple pill journalists is that a growing number of young men are avoiding women.

What does “avoiding women” precisely mean in the current socio-cultural context in the West? The word “avoid” entails some sort of active, deliberate, protective measure. My problem with that is that the “avoidance of women”, or a breakaway from women doesn’t look like that at all in practice today, because the social context of male-female interaction has changed completely in the last 2-3 decades.

This is something our pal Novaseeker has described before. In the bygone Western social system, young people were expected to regularly interact with one another in controlled, regulated environments, in a way that fostered productive, long-term, monogamous, assortative relationships. This was a sort of “holistic” milieu, so to speak, where young people treated one another as potential future partners, sexual and otherwise, in a socially regulated manner, in all cases when they were permitted to interact. This was even the norm in workplaces where both men and women were present. The average man found a girlfriend through his extended family or social circle, because families and social circles were normally large.

What we have today is the complete opposite: “sexual zoning”. Some mixed-sex environments, like the workplace, schools and campuses, are made completely asexual – sterile, so to speak. No sexualized interactions are permitted to take place. This is demanded by law and expected by society. In such environments, you’re supposed to treat members of the opposite sex strictly as colleagues or professionals, non-sexual beings. (Hot men are allowed to get away with more, of course, but that’s another issue.) Other mixed-sex environments, on the other hand, like nightclubs, are expected to be full-on sexual. Everybody there knows that all interactions entail the future possibility of casual sex. It’s basically a meat market. You’re expected to hit on girls, and girls expect to be hit on by attractive men. Socializing in these environments requires action, engagement. If you want to find a partner, either just for sex or something more, you have to go there, you have to have Game etc.

In other words, avoidance of women in the old days was an anti-social act of disengagement that was frowned upon. Today, avoidance of women merely means that you’re not expending excess energy and time to do certain things. It’s an “action” with few or no social repercussions – you won’t be socially ostracized or something. But technically it’s not an action. You’re basically “avoiding” women by not hitting the clubs on Saturday night. You’re avoiding them through simple inaction. You can have a full-time job, or go to college, have a social circle, have hobbies, buddies etc., basically a normie life, and still “avoid” women.

I thought this was an interesting observation because there is a stark contradiction in how these sexual zones are presented to men by women. From an old books perspective, men are still expected to be the initiators. It is incumbent upon men to be the sex that approaches and expresses intimate interest in women, and men who don’t, or who fail to build themselves into acceptable mates for women are shamed as being perpetual adolescents or just “giving up.” Our feminine-primary social mandate still promotes the expectation that men will prepare for, and initiate with, women.

However, from a new books perspective men are, as Höllenhund illustrates, expected to know their place in respect to whatever sexual zone they find themselves in, as well as having an understanding of how they are perceived in the SMP. So, in an asexual zone such as a college campus or the workplace, men are expected to know their SMV and act or not act accordingly. Men not meeting or exceeding what would make for an optimized Hypergamy with women are expected not to initiate or approach. In fact, this expected understanding extends to sexual zones and fosters the avoidance Höllenhund talks about here.

For all of the handwringing from feminine-primary gender pundits about men ‘dropping out’ of life or the SMP, it is this contradiction in atmosphere that promotes the avoidance. Hypergamy, being the prime directive of westernized societies, is figuratively best served when women are in complete and unilateral control of sexual selection. Thus, we see laws and social dictates installed to encourage men to self-select themselves out of the process and make this selection easier for women. Men will be shamed for not initiating and not approaching, but simultaneously be held accountable for as much as hate crimes if they step outside what they are expected to know are their appropriate sexual zones.

http://time.com/3852117/millennials-sex-parents-boomers/

Recently there’s been a spate of articles all attempting to explain why millennials aren’t getting after it in an age when it’s never been easier to hook up. Try as they will, nearly all of the explanations fail to account for how sexual zoning has affected the sexual marketplace today. Millennials have the ‘hook up generation’ reputation, but statistically they’re not doing much fucking.

Noah Patterson, 18, likes to sit in front of several screens simultaneously: a work project, a YouTube clip, a video game. To shut it all down for a date or even a one-night stand seems like a waste. “For an average date, you’re going to spend at least two hours, and in that two hours I won’t be doing something I enjoy,” he said.

It’s not that he doesn’t like women. “I enjoy their companionship, but it’s not a significant part of life,” said Patterson, a Web designer in Bellingham, Washington.

He has never had sex, although he likes porn. “I’d rather be watching YouTube videos and making money.” Sex, he said, is “not going to be something people ask you for on your résumé.”

One aspect that these largely millennial writers themselves seem oblivious to is the complexities of sexual zones that shift constantly for guys. In 2016 hooking up is easy, we’ve got Red Pill awareness and we have instantaneous communication, but what we don’t have are clearly defined sexual zones. Put a guy whose social intelligence is sub par into the wrong zone and it’s understandable that he has better things to occupy himself with that he ‘enjoys’.

This is a common refrain from MGTOWs. It’s usually some variation of  “why should I waste my time trying to untangle some girl’s head just to put myself at risk of a sexual harassment or rape accusation?”

Fred Flange had this comment a few weeks ago:

Co-sign, and this “soft MGTOW” observation ties in nicely with the WashPost’s “no sex please we’re collegiate” article. MGTOW is now socially subsidized and easy to implement: just do nothing! At college, don’t engage in class, or even better, “attend” the lectures on-line. Say no more in class or lab than you must, then leave. Start no convos, you won’t be dragged into any. All of this goes for cubicle workers: in the lunchroom, stare at your phone, or eat at your desk, or if you can, get outside but go alone. No feelings caught, no feelings hurt. Everybody gets nothing, therefore everybody wins.

Eventually you can learn the fine art of disappearance in urban settings: yes you occupy space, but other than someone bumping into you, it is possible to go anywhere without your registering with anyone in the vicinity, not even cops. You can switch it on and off like a light.

One possible corollary to look for: see if the “bros before homes” shaming begins to die down. It should. Because before that you patriamalarkey-preaching Tumblr-inas insisted you wanted that cheesy-bro to go? He’s GONE! Soft MGTOW is the mandated social paradigm, outside of “safe social zones” like public streets, malls, clubs, etc. plus in some workplaces and colleges it’s law. You’re going to complain about men obeying the law?

There’s also no shortage of articles decrying the absence of boys and young men these days too. The frequent bugbear in these always point to guys ‘dropping out’ and playing X-Box all day. From America’s Lost Boys:

Young men, significantly more so than young women, are stuck in life. Research released in May from the Pew Center documented a historic demographic shift: American men aged 18-30 are now statistically more likely to be living with their parents than with a romantic partner. This trend is significant, for one simple reason: Twenty- and thirtysomething men who are living at home, working part-time or not at all, are unlikely to be preparing for marriage. Hurst’s research says that these men are single, unoccupied, and fine with that—because their happiness doesn’t depend on whether they are growing up and living life.

Now, granted, this article presumes men’s adulthood ought to be measured by his capacity to get involved with a woman, support a family and maintain a steady job. It’s very hard for writers who tackle this topic to pull their heads out of the old books reasonings. Thus, the go-to answer to the question of ‘why do guys drop out?’ is video games. It’s far easier to goof on men as a whole if they can be made to look juvenile, lazy or stupid to the point men not knowing what’s good for them.

It would take a real effort to tackle the larger reasons as to why men drop out, and men like Samuel James (article author) would be forced to acknowledge the disincentives for men to participate in what his old books reasonings tell him is some mutually beneficial arrangement. Those disincentives don’t paint women in a very flattering light, so it’s much easier to dismiss them as garden variety misogyny.

The drop out generation are content with their lot in life because they’ve accepted the realities of a social order that debases men and manhood to being appliances to better serve women’s imperatives. And the risks of investing themselves in a relationship or finding the inner will to become better men for the sake of “growing up” are significant when the rules of engagement and the acceptable sexual zones are constantly changing.

The Damage Done By ‘Mattress Girl’

“Even in less extreme situations, young men are more skeptical of women’s ability or propensity to consent to sex, which some women on campus consider demeaning.

“I find that men are more and more interested in ensuring that I’m consenting before sex, which would seem like a good thing,” Columbia student Dylan Hunzeker said. “But sometimes I don’t necessarily feel that way. Especially when I have to answer a man’s question: ‘are you sure you’re not too drunk?’ Or ‘you want to have sex with me?’ In a sense, it’s annoying and debilitating to be constantly questioned about whether or not I have agency and am a sexual human being.”

“Men are scared of women on campus now, and fear breeds anger and prejudice. Women are frustrated by men, which inspires a lack of desire to collaborate for solutions.”

I would argue that a large majority of men accused of sexual harassment or even just suspected of impropriety are men who’ve found themselves in an environment they believed was an acceptable sexual zone. We are fast approaching a time when all zones will be so arbitrary and ambiguous that every environment with sexual potential will be avoided. This will have the effect of putting women into unilateral control of their own Hypergamy. It will be a state of Sadie Hawkins world – only women will make approaches on men and only those who match her Hypergamous ideal, an ideal fostered and reinforced by a steady diet of social media ego inflation.

It’s ironic that authors bemoaning the drop out generation of men never acknowledge the other side of the disincentives for men – those generated by a feminine-primary social narrative – the generation of women who remain unmarried well into their middle age. When this is explored, once again, it’s the result of the juvenile, ridiculous men that same narrative has created for itself.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

Hmmmm….. maybe I’d better go have another look-see at the chart

Scray
Scray
5 years ago

@mersonia

Ya you’re failing to appreciate the reality of self selected groups. So you can’t grok how your reality could be true and that this chart could reflect society at large

It’s fine.

Scray
Scray
5 years ago

@sentient

Bro you keep fucking up and your invite to my b-day party is fucking TRASHED. *pockets money*

Novaseeker
Novaseeker
5 years ago

Well, but there is no “society at large market” — SMs and MMs are all local in nature. So local characteristics are decisive in what you will experience as actual market conditions depending on where you are. When you try to smush in the fatties from appalachia with the hotties from South Florida, of course it’s going to get distorted, because those are distinct markets, just like the SM in, say, Pittsburgh is different from the SM in Manhattan. So, of course all you have are local markets, and those are going to determine how guys view it and experience… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

” . . . this chart could reflect society at large . . .”

. . . if the best looking women were the best looking women.

Scray
Scray
5 years ago

You’re forgetting social media, nova.

Qed

hank holiday
hank holiday
5 years ago

Goddamn the whole part of the chart was just to have fun and see for curiosity’s sake where everyone rated girls… Then everyone (except scray lol) consistently said “yeah the girls in that chart seem to be overrated, the 8’s and 9’s especially” So that was interesting because you’ve got guys who like white girls and guys who don’t rating girls about the same Huh, thats neat, so lets see where all that goes… It was just a fun thing for curiosity to see how all this panned out, and it also helps for understanding FRs in how guys rate… Read more »

hank holiday
hank holiday
5 years ago

@nova When you try to smush in the fatties from appalachia with the hotties from South Florida, of course it’s going to get distorted, because those are distinct markets, just like the SM in, say, Pittsburgh is different from the SM in Manhattan. So, of course all you have are local markets, and those are going to determine how guys view it and experience it — if anything the idea of a “society at large market” is what is illusory, because there is no national market. All markets are local. right, but we were just trying to get a standardized… Read more »

Scray
Scray
5 years ago

@Hank

Well never said Jenny was a 10….

I am saying that this is a discussion that could be useful but tends to devolve into KJ stuff

Liiike having a real baseline of actual SMV is very helpful in field…this other for fun stuff is for the birds.

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

How many of us here would be happy chasing a 36 year divorcee with 1.9 children?

How many of us here would be happy that we beat out a 35 year old Uncle Fester for her?

Just to give a rough idea of what is meant by “average.”

Scray
Scray
5 years ago

@kfg

As usual I addressed the point you bring up here a long time ago.

Do dudes want to be banging 5’s? Is the top 20% that rosy?
Diff questions from what those percentiles represent in fact.

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“Liiike having a real baseline of actual SMV is very helpful in field…”

You need to fix the end points as well, not just the average.

“Well never said Jenny was a 10….”

And what I said is that bottom right girl is not a 10, even though she gets my personal preference bonus point. Wouldn’t be ashamed to be seen with her, but wouldn’t take her around to show off either.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

Scray the reason why PRETEND provider game works is that there’s the promise of PROVIDING. (hint: it falls apart once the lie is up) LOL, so I can send Urkel out with five Benjamins and he’ll totally score with 8’s, right? Like you never saw the RSD video where a doctor or dentist who is just oozing Provider I forget which, gets blown out by some HB7, then when Tyler says the exact same things she just giggles? C’mon dude, you’re pitching Sugar Baby game. “Money talks”. Like Mistery paid for all the drinks for all the girls in all… Read more »

MeadowLarkLemon
MeadowLarkLemon
5 years ago

@Rollo: Ignoring the discussion of Jennifer Lawrence’s rating, and returning to the original topic of the post, did you see this article from the WP? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/soloish/wp/2016/10/17/when-i-was-accused-of-groping-a-woman-i-was-mad-like-trump-then-i-repented/ Here’s a guy who was bad with women until he read “The Game”, learned some PUA techniques, and enjoyed increased success with the ladies (while his internals remained beta). Then, he ignored the “don’t shit where you eat” rule (first mistake), got wasted around colleagues (bigger mistake), and sank a promising career when he drunkenly came onto a co-worker in an elevator (even bigger mistake, and which is now “sexual assualt”). Maybe a better-looking… Read more »

Scray
Scray
5 years ago

@anon

Didn’t say you’d get her, I said it’d put you on her radar.

I also said that game works better, which is why your Tyler example is whatever

I’m not pitching it, I’m just citing it as an approach. You don’t seem to get that most guys use provider game as a default when dealing with women at their looks level.

I didn’t say it was game or that it was the approach TRP advocates so your quip about Mystery makes no sense either.

MrT
MrT
5 years ago

@AR “Like you never saw the RSD video where a doctor or dentist who is just oozing Provider I forget which, gets blown out by some HB7, then when Tyler says the exact same things she just giggles?” That wasnt provider game tho. The guy announced himself as a provider (stating his job i think) and then started acting like lover, seducing them, (incongrunce), which prompted shittests, which he did not pass, thus cementing himself as a provider “conman”. Trying to get in their panties without providing. Thats an offense in most jurisdictions. He did not play provider game after… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

@Scray, dude, you’re all over the place. I said that an HB8 won’t see most men. She just won’t see them, because they don’t arouse her hypergamy. You said that a man who burns enough cash will be “seen” by her. Ok, I’ll give you this: she’ll probably be either looking to get her chunk of cash, or laughing at him. I’m not pitching it, I’m just citing it as an approach. LOL! You just told me to go infield and burn $300 to $500 just to prove how it works to myself. Don’t you read your own words? You… Read more »

hank holiday
hank holiday
5 years ago

@scray Liiike having a real baseline of actual SMV is very helpful in field well theres the difference The chart we want to make is an objective chart of rating 1-10. Obviously, there will be some variation, but we can get one that most people agree on. Now, then there is a DIFFERENT chart of SMV, of how things relate in our current society overrun with fatties lol. So, first you have an objective chart thats just of 1-10 to use as a guideline. Then you have a second one that shows how the market actually functions nowdays with the… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

Lol

Lot’s of this around where I live.

Idk about HB rating, but I’d be in.

http://66.media.tumblr.com/e763394970830ff97b22a73fb30740c9/tumblr_o1ximiHzoR1rjhan3o1_1280.jpg

It’s a matter mostly of personal taste gentlemen.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

Shucks, if people don’t like the HB 1 to HB 10 chart then the web is full of pix, make another one if that’s the deal.

Scray
Scray
5 years ago

@anon No I’ve been consistent. Go drop some $$ and see if it doesn’t PUT YOU ON HER RADAR (what I said). And by saying you agree that the woman will notice him because she wants to either get some resources from the man or get her ego stroked, you have agreed with me. GG We ain’t arguing anymore, hoss, since you conceded and all 🙂 @Hank Yes I know. One is useful IN FIELD….2016 SMV. The other is KJ mental masturbation And tbh, 2016 SMV dictates all. The field rules all. The chicks getting treated like 7s are 7s.… Read more »

Scray
Scray
5 years ago

@Hank

Nah. I noted the distinction at the outset. As usual most people blow past nuance until 30 posts later tho

The objective chart you’re after falls under the category of personal Toth bullshit….which I already said is fine, but those are personal standards and won’t help with tactics in field.

having a bad day
having a bad day
5 years ago

@Culum

“No wonder I get so many IOIs just walking through a club..”

duh… ‘Sherman’…lol

“it’s closing/leading that I’m focussing on now.”

p in v!…
p in v!…
p in v!…

lol…

good luck!

Random Angeleno
Random Angeleno
5 years ago

@Blax, not into torn clothing chic, but I will say she fills hers out very well. and how many chodes in your neighborhood will tell her that?

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

Scray No I’ve been consistent. Go drop some $$ and see if it doesn’t PUT YOU ON HER RADAR (what I said). Not quite, you actually said: She doesn’t see them until they are providing her with resources/benefits should be the saying. So you’ve gone from “provide HER with resources” to “spend money in her presence”. More goalpost moving. We both agree that inner game beats Provider game, right? So I’m saying inner Game will work better to get an HB8’s attention than just spending money. Why do you want to argue with that? Debate’s over by now, so that… Read more »

theasdgamer
5 years ago

@HABD 3 pleasant surprises… I was pleasantly surprised by a unicorn blushing when her pregnancy was announced to the family. Old set of books still lives in some isolated places. I was pleasantly surprised in a NSFW (not safe for wife) way when wife’s new doctor flirted with me out of wife’s sight. Doc is a magazine cover…aka model…I stretch the truth a bit since she’s about 20 lbs overweight, but a face that draws many looks. I was pleasantly surprised by a lesbian reaching out to touch me (she’s more bisexual than lesbian), so of course I touched her… Read more »

theasdgamer
5 years ago

@AR

So you’ve gone from “provide HER with resources” to “spend money in her presence”. More goalpost moving.

Spending a lot of money attracts BB-seekers who hope that you will spend your money on them. I don’t see any big issue here.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

Spending a lot of money attracts BB-seekers who hope that you will spend your money on them.

Are HB8’s typically seeking Beta Bucks? Or are Beta Bucks seeking them?

Inner game FTW.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

In fact this whole exchange is surreal.

It should be someone else arguing “Just spend money! That’s how to get HB 8’s to notice you!” and it should be Scray saying “Nope. Get congruent Game. Don’t go Provider”.

And I should be sipping an adult beverage and LOL’ing at the whole thing.

Scray
Scray
5 years ago

@anon

I never argued that provider game (you don’t know what that is apparently, since you differentiate it from providing resources/benefits) beats normal game, so congrats on the strawman.

I also didn’t argue that provider game was to be followed or pursued over normal game, so another strawman.

You don’t really seem to grasp a lot of the fundamentals necessary to even have this discussion so Lol, later.

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
5 years ago

Whoa. Just finished up a hit and run…no literally. A 250# cornrowed dude lit up his brakes and plunged into my crappy Honda CR-V. I got out, he peered at me, saw no physical issues (must be a doctor) and slowly pulled away. I have been so chill lately (thanks bros!) I knew an intervention would be a waste of time. Got plates, car model. Incoming cliche – they don’t match. Anyhoo, I could be worse. 1000 mg APAP and and bottle of blended red. Much better. I’m solid, car damage, shrug. He was leaking radiator fluid. Drip, drip away… Read more »

DisgruntledEarthling
DisgruntledEarthling
5 years ago

@Sun
” The last time one DID try to force herself in to existence by insulting me then bragging about her PhD in something-or-other, I told her to drop 150lbs if she wanted her opinion to matter to me.”

Ouch! Harsh dude.

I had a PhD fattie hit on me too but I had to break my dry spell…

DisgruntledEarthling
DisgruntledEarthling
5 years ago

@Anonymous Reader “A couple of years back I found that I could walk into a coffee joint in “grey man” mode, sit down, and actually make myself “pop” into view. Actually had a couple of 20-something girls look startled one time when I did this trick; changing state from “grey” to “HERE!” changed my subcommunications which made me “pop” into their field of view. Probably in their perception I just magically appeared in a chair at the next table. Because they literally did not notice me walk in and sit down. ” Man I’d like to know more about that… Read more »

theasdgamer
5 years ago

I had a PhD fattie hit on me too but I had to break my dry spell…

That explains why your dick asked for a new home.

theasdgamer
5 years ago

Are HB8’s typically seeking Beta Bucks? Or are Beta Bucks seeking them?

Both. Funny you don’t get this.

theasdgamer
5 years ago

HB8s will try to marry providers and fuck the pool boy. Women pay matchmakers to find them wealthy husbands.

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
5 years ago

@Sentient & @Scray – lol, I am working out even though I don’t look like George. My PT finally got me doing bench presses yesterday. I’m still only using the bar with no weights so gotta long way to go. But I’ve started and I’m staying the course. As for passive IOIs, I get a fair few in clubs. Or I’ve started to in the last 1-1.5 years as I’ve improved my game (not so often before that). Usually from HB6-7s (sometimes lower, very occasionally higher) and usually a lot younger than I’d say I average about 3-4 clear IOIs/AIs… Read more »

rugby11
rugby11
5 years ago

Rollo
Ancestors of scared masculinity.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/templesmith/blood-songs

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
5 years ago

Lol I just saw HABD’s response – “Sherman” heh.

Laser focus on P in V for Nov – no stair stepping – probably about 13-15 nights out

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
5 years ago

Oh and FWIW, Scray’s points about the looks chart make perfect sense to me.

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
5 years ago

(ie, as Blax says, looks have a pretty solid subjective variance between guys, and the only objective basis everyone can agree on is “the market” – observed/revealed behaviour in field. And in the field, because all of America is getting fatter, fat chicks are indeed getting treated like 7s, so they ARE 7s on the hierarchy because the 6s and 5s are even fatter..)

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
5 years ago

Cut guys focus on the food intake. Realistically, no amount of exercise alone will produce GSP definition. Fitness, is not simple math i.e. more exercise = more calorie loss and better looks. Here’s how I see it: TRM guy wants to lose 15 pounds, gain muscle and definition. That’s 3500 Cal x 15 = 52500 Cal net loss by exercise, diet or combination. Guy starts cardio, lifting. He’s motivated so is in the gym 3 hrs. Running caloric Burn for 195# ~/= 147 Calories for every mile run at 8.5 min/mile. Good clip. He’s overweight, so every day he runs… Read more »

Kaminsky
Kaminsky
5 years ago

Rollo, Thanks for that response a few pages with the Brazil video. Amazing. The blinders on strong, independent women never ceases to amaze. I actually lived in Brazil myself for almost three years around the millenium. That was my first inadvertent bit of RP awakening. The Brasilieras love to lace it up against the gringas too. The girls in that vid were playing innocent, ha ha. I know how they are with gringas. Naturally, the either fat or diet-shake, Gwyneth-hipped gringas wouldn’t take up the bikini gauntlet on the beaches very often. I saw one of the greatest tantrums by… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

EHIntellect

There is a realistic limit to our exercise ability, but we all would lose weight eating ~1200 a day. No exercise required.

Word. I did exactly this. dropped 20LBS in 6 weeks. Just disciplined eating and negligible activity based burn. No running, just walked 3 miles a day 3-4 days a week. Under an hour.

Kaminsky
Kaminsky
5 years ago

Yeah but check on GSP’s body a week after his fight. He’s likely to have gained back 5 pounds of water weight and lost some of that cut. Those guys often lose tons of fluid to make weight. He looks normal here; http://www.baltimoremartialarts.com/georges-st-pierre-manager-shari-spencer-part-ways/ Plus he’s a pro fighter. He’s lifting, sparring, drilling, doing Jiu-Jitsu (burns calories like crazy), dieting for his fights etc. The guy is active 8 hours a day most likely. It would be like trying to have the chipping skills of Rory even though you’re working 50 hours a week. Rory is a PRO golfer. As far… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“Don’t workout to melt off fat.”

As I have said time and time again, you don’t exercise to burn fat, you burn fat to exercise. Fat is fuel. Exercising to burn fat makes as much sense as driving a car to burn gas. You exercise to get stronger and more powerful.

The exercise and fitness world has been turned on its head.

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
5 years ago

@Sentient: You are my hero. @MrT Physicians are by nature spergy. It makes them exquisitely good at long-term focused behavior, unemotional analysis, cold pragmatism. It’s good for medicine; They give us unvarnished truth, especially in life and death issues. As we all know, this behavior kills any real desire. Physicians end up on the sexual market later in life and often cold-cocked that their wealth becomes marginally useful as they progress in their sexual lives as their only attractiveness is a women’s insatiable access to status and money. It’s kinda sad but unsurprising when the hypergamous good girl-next-door RN who… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

As a guy who has emitted both beta and alpha signals, i can tell you that women absolutely NOTICE you if you appear to have wealth. Period. Every time. A lot of male ‘fashion’ is about signaling wealth, even if you don’t possess it. It doesn’t mean they are going to show overt attraction or IOIs, this is actually contextually sensitive, often a woman will warm 1-on-1 to a man with bucks whereas she might not publicly. I think Anon is missing that these mating selection cues are firing off subconsciously in women in large part, these are innate responses… Read more »

DisgruntledEarthling
DisgruntledEarthling
5 years ago

@Kaminsky “As far as cutting calories and lifting to get cut…watch out. Your moods and hormonal state will be in the shitter. Your T-levels are likely to plummet because you’re ripping up muscle and not eating enough to recover. That is a high stress state and cortisol will be high.” This is so true – experienced this this summer. Will NOT try cutting again. Try getting it up during a cut… The rest of your advice is spot-on! I just hope another ‘debate’ shit-storm doesn’t start though… GSP is a local boy here – seen lots of his training vids.… Read more »

having a bad day
having a bad day
5 years ago

should have invited the doc out to dance…lol…in front of the wife…lol

i like lesbians… lol… the only thing that makes them ‘lesbian’ is that they have a higher threshold for acceptable ‘alpha’ than their looks can pull (or LUG…lol)… that doesn’t stop them from being girls…lol… and ‘giving value’ is ‘giving value’ to the people around you…

good luck!

scray
scray
5 years ago

@culum yeah this is just something a lot of dudes get into. like, I was into it when I first started to, and I still have my personal standards. HOWEVER… you need to separate that personal shit from empirical reality. Game, TRP, etc. are all about observing and responding to the facts. There are a ton of guys in the manosphere who bitch and moan and say shit like “bro this 3 SLORE wasn’t responding to me! WTF! SOCIAL MEDIA INFLATES THESE CHICKS PAST THEIR ACTUAL WORTH RAAAWR!” Nope. This is the wrong attitude to have. That “3” is a… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
5 years ago

@Disgruntled When a woman I don’t know joins my conversation by opening with cunty questions in a cunty tone for absolutely no reason, then proceeds to a conclusion of “You should never have children” in the same cunty tone, I see nothing wrong with going straight for the jugular. Particularly since I have a reputation for being a really friendly guy around there and it’s like the only time anyone’s ever seen me just be a genuinely open asshole. Some people just need to be reminded that it’s a bad idea to open with strangers by being a jerk, because… Read more »

scray
scray
5 years ago

@ <em As far as cutting calories and lifting to get cut…watch out. Your moods and hormonal state will be in the shitter. Your T-levels are likely to plummet because you’re ripping up muscle and not eating enough to recover. That is a high stress state and cortisol will be high. And I think cortisol and T are a ying-yang duo aren’t they? You’re the doctor, Intellect. What say you? I think most guys try to change their bodies too quickly. If you’re lifting, doing cardio and eating 1600 calories, yeah you’ll drop fat but your muscle won’t be growing… Read more »

Softek
Softek
5 years ago

@ scrib In a weird way I’m feeling more confident in myself than ever before. Maybe it’s because some of the experiences I’ve had with hooking up with women have been so awful I can’t imagine them being any worse. Examples: 1) Being told to grow a pair (“or 10”) by a 220lb landwhale, and her crying her eyes out and yelling at me telling me I don’t understand how hard it is to be a woman, what women have to go through, and “fuck you” and “you’re a fucking asshole” because I backed away from her when she tried… Read more »

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
5 years ago

@Kaminsky Went off carbs (not OCD though) and I feel freaking awesome. I upped my egg intake (it’s easy available food @ home) and Mg to my diet. Anyhoo, exercise for exercise’s sake can get really complicated and a Rube Goldberg machine. Exercise as a pathway to helping others on the job, brutally fucking the missus, being a good example for my kids provides me worthwhile long term value. I know as much as you re: TRT and cortisol. TRT helps depressed guys who in the past would just be lost. I’ve seen friends turn themselves away from frustration with… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“Your body just takes a few weeks to adjust to any diet. And the drop off in T related to cutting calories is negligible.” If I’m a bit fat (over 10%) I can live for weeks on a diet that just covers my BMR, without losing strength or power, because I don’t normally live on sugar/starch. After a few weeks on that sort of Caloric intake I can then fast for 24 hours, get on my bike, and ride in the neighborhood of record speed. Because I am not the least bit short on fuel. I believe most people who… Read more »

Softek
Softek
5 years ago

Health and nutrition is a whole nother rabbit hole. Which is further evidence that even getting involved in that is part of being your own mental point of origin. Researching hormones and diet and working out and all that goes WAY beyond trying to get fit to help with picking up women. Strong evidence of being passionate about it. Much like I started out playing guitar because I thought it would help me with women and then before I know it I’m obsessed with it and making a career out of it. I’ve been friends with a few people who… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“Our inability to quantify all the physiological variables and understand them in context of the limitless permutations of the human mental, spiritual and physical reality leads us often to . . .”

. . . pursue what we can measure, whether it is actually relevant or not, and perhaps just a proxy of a proxy of a confounder.

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

@Softie – Nice work. You are generating your reality. It’s more challenging for guys like you and me with the bad neurology and psychology and traumas – but not impossible. We also have to look for our progress instead of our mistakes cuz we are naturally so hard on ourselves. That said, all you need do now is an actual field report on that night with the girl who’s basically laying there with her legs in the air screaming, “Please fuck me Softie, I’m literally craving your cock like a cat craves catnip”. Do the FR. Ask the PUAs here… Read more »

Novaseeker
Novaseeker
5 years ago

It’s kinda sad but unsurprising when the hypergamous good girl-next-door RN who hooks up long term with a physician soon becomes unrecognizable from her love of his money.

Are docs still marrying nurses these days — I know SJF did that, but that was back then … I’d thought this had mostly become gauche. For lawyers, the lawyer/secretary thing is dead, when it comes to marriage at least.

trackback

[…] Rational Male hat vor wenigen Tagen einen hochinteressanten Beitrag veröffentlicht, in dem es um (de-)sexualisierte Zonen geht. Diese Zonen sind Arbeit, Universität, Discos, etc. und abhängig von den Orten sind […]

DisgruntledEarthling
DisgruntledEarthling
5 years ago

@Sun
“When a woman I don’t know joins my conversation by opening with cunty questions in a cunty tone for absolutely no reason, then proceeds to a conclusion of “You should never have children” in the same cunty tone, I see nothing wrong with going straight for the jugular. ”

Yeah, given that – you were too kind to her

having a bad day
having a bad day
5 years ago

@scray Like, dudes who believe that the “average” woman (OR WORSE) are the best they can do aren’t that uncommon — 80% of dudes. It’s not “white knighting,” it’s just the facts on the ground. yep… was out for burger and a beer with my buddy… (late 40’s, going through HIS ‘late-40s divorce’ (1st time for him), so he’s ‘separated’ but not legal yet…so, on the market, so to speak…and trying…(note – i swear that divorce shit’s like a virus, but none of the 3!!! of my buddies going through their divorces right NOW know each other, so it might… Read more »

Yollo Comanche
Yollo Comanche
5 years ago

@HABD

“nobody listens to the sperg…lol…”

Where do you find cool male friends that know the real score if you don’t already have any? What’s your take on this?

scray
scray
5 years ago

@rollo I have very high standards when it comes to what I personally find hot… Yup, this is the personal shit I describe earlier. ToTH have it bad, esp, including me. Don’t limit yourself by not fucking HB5s, they’re really HB8s because you’re conditioned to think they are? I don’t think so. I don’t see the benefit of changing your mind about yourself if you’re not going to challenge yourself. When a guy becomes Red Pill aware and Game savvy I would expect his standards to be higher than they were while he was Beta. Nah, this isn’t what I’m… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

Kaminsky Stop any and all sugar, including fruit juice, smoothies. I know a man who dropped 50 pounds over a year by ruthlessly cutting sugar. One pound per week average. It was hard, since he’s from down South: no sweet tea, no desserts, no ice cream, no sugar in coffee, no sodas, no fruit juices, no breakfast cardboar…er…cereal, etc. I do not know if he backed off on simple carbs (noodles, pizza, etc.) or not. Maybe not, his diet was so saturated with sugar before that cutting it may have been enough. The case for the “sugar -> blood glucose… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

HABD

so it might be something with the age range (mid-late 40s)

The last surge of hormones before menopause takes them for good… such that even the hamster knows the score…

See the same thing, same ages, over and over.

And the guys… if they are half way BB… by two years out they usually stumble into the fact that a zillion mid 30’s girls are waaaaaaay into them, and these girls do the heavy lifting and force the situation… and usually end up marrying one and having that second family…

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Sooooper pointy elbows Rollo…

http://i.imgur.com/JxERs0x.jpg

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

DisgruntledEarthling Man I’d like to know more about that changing state thing… Inner and outer Game. It only happened after I’d been reading for over a year or so. One time I walked into a coffee place with my mind on some work problems I was trying to solve, so I’m sure my body language was all closed up. I didn’t look at anyone in the face, just the hands, got my beverage and sat down. Started reading the web, maybe TRM or Athol Kay pre-estrogenization, maybe even Heartiste, I can’t recall. Long story short I mentally checked my posture:… Read more »

scray
scray
5 years ago

@sentient

GET THAT UGLY SLORE OUT OF HERE. JESUS CHRIST GROSS

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
5 years ago

@Novaseeker Doctors and doctors, lawyer and lawyers is generally true. Not universally though. When socially awkward physicians (redundant) stray often it’s after long hours and in close working proximity with their staff. As Rollo has written somewhere, straying guys locate themselves in a high probablility to stray areas. They’re passive aggressive about it too. They don’t instigate. They’re used to people tending to them and show interest (That was amazing, how you do it, Doctor?!). They can’t tell the difference between obsequiousness and legit praise since they’ve been told they are the cat’s meow forever and they assume their genius… Read more »

scray
scray
5 years ago

@habd and he was ‘longingly’ looking at the waitress…lol… a late 40s nb4…lol… this guy is solid BB material – great job, good guy, solid churchian type – couldn’t even get up the courage to ask HER for her number…lol… BP as shit… but he didn’t think he was even in HER ‘league’… and wouldn’t even ask for her NUMBER…lol and WON’T even listen to me…that he COULD get a hot 30 yo for his new gf…lol… but his social conditioning is just too strong… yeah. like, JUST GO OUT. 2016 is SOME SERIOUS FUCKING SHIT. It’s no wonder that… Read more »

having a bad day
having a bad day
5 years ago

@Yollo @HABD “nobody listens to the sperg…lol…” Where do you find cool male friends that know the real score if you don’t already have any? What’s your take on this? right here…lol… for ‘real life?… when you figure THAT out… let ME know…lol i try to push people irl to ‘test the waters’, but all i’ve ever gotten is BP ‘wisdom’ parroted back at me…lol… and even when i point out the inconsistencies, i just get ignored…lol… it really is like the movie ‘they live’…lol… i feel like nobody else can see actual reality… it’s trippy…lol… BUT everything plays out… Read more »

having a bad day
having a bad day
5 years ago

@scray

A. B. and C.

A — act high value. B — know WHAT EVERYONE ELSE THINKS YOUR VALUE IS. C — don’t let B influence A in a negative way.

To use the proper tools for the job, you need an accurate picture of reality. That’s all.

a – i AM high value…

b – everyone KNOWS i’m high value… if they don’t, it’s only bc i haven’t interacted with them yet…

c – why would it… i’m AWESOME as f*k!…

fify…lol

good luck!

Novaseeker
Novaseeker
5 years ago

Often they hook up as an affair then dump the first wife. In the 10+ years here, I’ve seen it 4 times and once the straying physician was getting cucked too, thought his new pregnant wife was true, after 2 years learned conclusively it wan’t his kid as she was leaving him for the true father. Alas the doctor’s name was on the birth registry, and is now raising the kid as his own. Oops! In law firms the most common thing is older lawyer with new young female lawyerette (they are younger than the youngest docs … our youngest… Read more »

having a bad day
having a bad day
5 years ago

@Sentient

Sooooper pointy elbows Rollo…

yea, but i guess i can take one for the team… you know… for the knowledge base…lol

good luck!

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

@OMGs – I have a very good friend who’s married and needs married man Red Pill advice, for which I’m not a great source. What would you guys give to a guy to read? This site is a bit too esoteric for him.

He’s a Natural and has alpha traits but was also very traditional, and is BP as shit with women pedestalized. He’s 47, married 20 years.

cheupez
5 years ago

…after 2 years learned conclusively it wan’t his kid as she was leaving him for the true father. Alas the doctor’s name was on the birth registry, and is now raising the kid as his own. How do those girls pull this off? Kids you know for a fact they are not yours, and now you are paying to raise them just because your name on the birth cert? I would have thought that the woman ought to pay you back for each and every penny of your money you have spent on her. But no. You got to financially… Read more »

having a bad day
having a bad day
5 years ago

@scribblerg

I have a very good friend who’s married and needs married man Red Pill advice, for which I’m not a great source. What would you guys give to a guy to read? This site is a bit too esoteric for him.

does he really WANT advice? (did he ask for it? and mean it? not just bitching…)… or are you ‘offering it for his own good’?…

if he wants advice, Rollo’s books… and/or the orginal MMSL book… if not, he won’t read anything anyway… ask me how i know…lol…

good luck!

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Scribs

Married Man Sex Life 2011 Primer is a good short overview to evo/bio/psych and RP concepts, and BP concepts live covert contracts and passive aggressive Nice Guy behavior… if TRM is too esoteric… tell him to try that as an intro.

Agent P
Agent P
5 years ago

@scrib, I would say the older Athol Kay book,The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011 is a good starter place for that situ. It’s how I got started and it saved my life. The MMSL forum is obviously purple now but the older book is a good starting point. The real kick start for me,24 hours before that book was Ian Ironwood’s site, red pill room. I like his take on married life, taking the pill etc, its very accessible without scaring the shit out of guys or getting way too esoteric about RP and game too quickly. My trip… Read more »

Novaseeker
Novaseeker
5 years ago

How do those girls pull this off? Kids you know for a fact they are not yours, and now you are paying to raise them just because your name on the birth cert? Ya, in most US states at least the name on the birth cert is conclusive, non-rebuttable evidence of paternity unless you contest it within a fixed period of time from the date of birth — and it’s usually pretty short, often less than 12 months. So if the kid was a couple of years old, his goose was cooked — he’s the father, legally, in a conclusive… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Agent P “My trip down the rabbit hole began with one simple bread crumb that had been left out for me to find,” Same here… it was Vox’s site which was linked from a finance guys blog ‘Alpha Game Plan” so I thought it was a finance site… LOL after finding it, I was away on a biz trip and spent the whole week locked in my room. Read the blog back to front… then got the MMSL book read that, got home and just declared to the wife “we are going to get divorced… it’s undoubted” which was like… Read more »

scray
scray
5 years ago

@habd nah I meant what I said. Here’s why… if you just say ‘I WILL ACT HIGH VALUE I AM SO HIGH VALUE’ no matter what well, HIGH VALUE people do different things in different situs based on how the people around them view them. you see? so you can’t choose the HIGH VALUE behavior in every situation unless you can ACCURATELY evaluate each situ, which includes having a good idea of the CURRENT value people place on you. HIGH VALUE behavior vis the 4 friend is NOT THE SAME as HIGH VALUE behavior to the target hb8 (yes that’s… Read more »

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
5 years ago

@kfg

Editing help too. What doesn’t this blog do? Cool.

rugby11
rugby11
5 years ago
Reply to  EhIntellect
kfg
kfg
5 years ago

@Eh Intellect: “What doesn’t this blog do?”

Cut Jullienne fries in seconds, but I’ve got Ron in the back room working on that.

IAS
IAS
5 years ago

@Scribblerg: If you want to start him slowly, even Athol Kay’s MMSL primer may be a bit too much for him to handle, but it is a good “Red Pill lite” book. Check the Married Red Pill reddit sidebar – they suggest No More Mr. Nice Guy and When I Say No I Feel Guilty.

NMMNG didn’t resonate with me (but it does with a lot of people apparently).
WISNIFG is useful for pretty much anyone (even women) and even has some somewhat BP passages in it, so it should help without raising alarms.

having a bad day
having a bad day
5 years ago

@scray you say potato…lol i know exactly what you said/meant… i was just joking around with you…lol… buuut you (or me…lol) still have to have the mindset i put forth, or your prescription won’t work… everything else is just calibration… if you just say ‘I WILL ACT HIGH VALUE I AM SO HIGH VALUE’ no matter what well, HIGH VALUE people do different things in different situs based on how the people around them view them. you see? i agree completely… that’s WHY i’m so AWESOME!!!…lol so you can’t choose the HIGH VALUE behavior in every situation unless you can… Read more »

Random Angeleno
Random Angeleno
5 years ago

@Sentient, @habd

can definitely apply dance floor game with those pointy elbows ftw!

scray
scray
5 years ago

@habd

i know exactly what you said/meant… i was just joking around with you…lol… buuut you (or me…lol) still have to have the mindset i put forth

ya…

that’s what a) is. the mindset.

and yeah b) and c) are about calibration.

I get the jokes but like, there’s a lot of misinformation so new guys can get confused easily.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

scribblerg I think Anon is missing that these mating selection cues are firing off subconsciously in women in large part, these are innate responses just like how being attractive triggers a different response in a woman. No, dude, I get that. It’s just that there’s better ways to DHV than burning cash, in my opinion. That a man who wants to “be visible” to an HB 8 would be better off doing so with inner Game than by spending money. That was my point, along with the notion that most men are invisible to HB 8’s – which really is… Read more »

hank holiday
hank holiday
5 years ago

@scray nah, all we were doing is just rating girls on an objective 1-10 scale. Then you just barged in calling us keyboard jockies and shit dudes just talk shit lol. they can say ‘they’re just trying to find the truth’ but the evidence more or less points toward “dick measuring at all times.” nah, you are just trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Anytime anyone tries to come up with an objective measure of girls, you just shout “KEYBOARD JOCKEY KEYBOARD JOCKEY.” You’re like a feminist who see rape everywhere, just saying hey to a… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
5 years ago

@Disgruntled Yeah, given that – you were too kind to her To be fair, the little bit I mentioned there was at the end of a rant where I proceeded to take a dump on her credentials, eviscerate her (shabbily constructed) argument directly, THEN point out that if she wants me to give a shit about her opinion as a woman in a bar she needs to ditch the weight. She was quite literally crying on the bar after I was done, and the dude that had come in with her grabbed my wrist in an attempt to physically intimidate… Read more »

scray
scray
5 years ago

@hank nah, all we were doing is just rating girls on an objective 1-10 scale. Then you just barged in calling us keyboard jockies and shit first of all, I started the entire discussion on the rating by bringing up the weight distribution lol so nah dude I was here first. second of all, I explained the diff between personal shit (what you’re calling the “objective” scale) and empirical reality AT THE START lol. Now, rather than insulting us, you could have simply pointed out that “hey you guys may feel girls are at x rating, but bear in mind… Read more »

scray
scray
5 years ago

@hank Now, for your original question, as to what all this says about us, it says that guys doing FRs are doing better than they think. If a 6 is really an 8…then that means guys like culum and me are getting IOIs and pulling 8’s. That means our game is better than we think and/or our looks are better than we think as a result of not being fat fucks. more shit that I anticipated at the outset: “Guys, bottom line is this: if you can score consistently with the average young american woman (1-6 hrs face time, no… Read more »

having a bad day
having a bad day
5 years ago

@scray

I get the jokes but like, there’s a lot of misinformation so new guys can get confused easily.

good point…

good luck!

scray
scray
5 years ago

@anon That a man who wants to “be visible” to an HB 8 would be better off doing so with inner Game than by spending money. That was my point, along with the notion that most men are invisible to HB 8’s – which really is beyond question. Scray decided to be all argumentative, and maybe ego-invested stubborn, so he took the opposite position. ASD is just sperging. You may be doing the same thing. Tight, you’ve resorted to lying. Here, since you forgot how to read—> Me: It doesn’t matter if she “provides for herself.” Women respond to dudes… Read more »

hank holiday
hank holiday
5 years ago

and lol, another white chick just hit on me.

lol me and culum need to trade. redhead hit on me yesterday, another one just now

hank holiday
hank holiday
5 years ago

@scray nah your whole vibe has been agressive the whole time and starting shit where all that’s required is to point out some subtle differences here and there. You have a whole vibe of us vs them and that’s the shit that gets tiresome just look at how you approach things versus say yareally teaching a noob. your like a liberal who wants to give some real talk to some conservatives by showing up in assless chaps and a dildo up his ass. lol, you are gonna get a lot further if you just put on a suit. this is… Read more »

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