You cannot negotiate Desire.
This is a very simple principle that most Men and the vast majority of women are willfully ignorant of. One the most common personal problems I’ve been asked advice for in the past 10 years is some variation of “how do I get her back?” Usually this breaks down into men seeking some methodology to return his relationship to an earlier state where a previously passionate woman couldn’t keep her hands off of him. Six months into a comfortable familiarity and the thrill is gone, but in truth it’s the genuine desire that is gone.
It’s often at this stage that a man will resort to negotiation. Sometimes this can be as subtle as him progressively doing things for her in the hopes that she’ll reciprocate with the same sexual fervor they used to have. Other times a married couple may go to marriage counseling to “resolve their sex issues” and negotiate terms for her sexual compliance. He’ll promise to do the dishes and a load of laundry more often in exchange for her feigned sexual interest in him. Yet, no matter what terms are offered, no matter how great an external effort he makes so deserving of reward, the genuine desire is not there for her. In fact, she feels worse for not having the desire after such efforts were made for her compliance.
Negotiated desire only ever leads to obligated compliance. This is why her post-negotiation sexual response is often so lackluster and the source of even further frustration on his part. She may be more sexually available to him, but the half-hearted experience is never the same as when they first met when there was no negotiation, just spontaneous desire for each other.
From a male perspective, and particularly that of an uninitiated beta male, negotiation of desire seems a rational solution to the problem. Men tend to innately rely on deductive reasoning; otherwise known as an “if then” logic stream. The code is often something like this:
I need sex + women have the sex I want + query women about their conditions for sex + meet prerequisites for sex = the sex I want.
Makes sense right? It’s simple economics, but built on a foundation that relies on a woman’s accurate self-evaluations. The genuine desire they used to experience at the outset of their relationship was predicated upon a completely unknown set of variables. Overtly communicating a desire for reciprocal desire creates obligation, and sometimes even ultimatums. Genuine desire is something a person must come to – or be led to – on their own volition. You can force a woman by threat to comply with behaving in a desired manner, but you cannot make her want to behave that way. A prostitute will fuck you for an exchange, it doesn’t mean she wants to.
Whether LTR or a one night stand (ONS) strive for genuine desire in your relationships. Half of the battle is knowing you want to be with a woman who wants to please you, not one who feels obligated to. You will never draw this genuine desire from her by overt means, but you can covertly lead her to this genuine desire. The trick in provoking real desire is in keeping her ignorant of your inent to provoke it. Real desire is created by her thinking it’s something she wants, not something she has to do.
August 25th, 2011 at 2:50 pm
Rollo.
How ? Teasing ?
August 26th, 2011 at 2:45 pm
[…] don’t think would ever be romantic that stick with her. In the same way you cannot negotiate genuine desire, likewise you cannot engineer genuine […]
August 26th, 2011 at 9:56 pm
Any emotional decision (including motivation, attraction, desire or liking) is not a choice. Feelings are disconnected from conscious thought: they are instead the brain’s automatic responses upon being excited in various ways.
Negotiating is often a poor way of triggering feelings in other people, as you explain. Creating the patterns the emotional brain responds to is much more effective.
Rollo, I appreciate all your posts so far. They’re all dead on, and a great starting resource for me. Keep it coming.
September 2nd, 2011 at 8:57 pm
well, yeah but how do you manage that? when the magic’s gone, it’s gone. back in the fifties it was that very sense of female obligation that kept the institution of marriage going, nobody really complained, and it was win/win all around.
change the parameters, i.e. female financial independence- that’s the wild card for better or worse. it doesn’t look good for marriage long term for both partners to be in a constant state of disequilibrium: both renegotiating something that should be settled up front when previously both accepted the status quo and kept their desire for one another because they knew on some level, consciously or not, there were no other options.
sheesh, i don’t know what the solution is. there’s no getting the genie back in the bottle. certainly, the balancing act you advise is less assured of good results than the expectations we all would have had a generation ago .
i guess from your name that you were raised catholic, like i was, but i
think i’m quite a bit older than you. for all its oppressive strictures regarding the duties of spouses, i think that institution was onto something.
September 4th, 2011 at 12:19 pm
Not catholic, however my mother converted to catholicism from evangelicalism about 15 years ago. And Rollo Tomassi is my pseudonym – go watch/read L.A. Confidential.
I’m 43.
September 23rd, 2011 at 4:32 pm
[…] are not her highest priority. Sexuality is spontaneous chemical reaction between two parties, not a process of negotiation. It’s sex first, then relationship, not the other way around. A woman who wants to fuck you […]
January 29th, 2012 at 11:31 pm
“The trick in provoking real desire is in keeping her ignorant of your inent to provoke it. ”
hence
let your greatest cunning lie in covering up what looks like cunning…
February 13th, 2012 at 11:39 am
[…] sexuality than reserving a ‘special day’ just for it. Remember, you cannot negotiate genuine desire; and with the right art, a bag of Skittles can be a more romantic gesture than all the sonnets, […]
February 23rd, 2012 at 11:27 am
[…] out of shape men have a relatively easy time attracting women, but they can’t make a woman genuinely desire to fuck him on a physical level. It’s just the very commercial version of negotiating […]
March 9th, 2012 at 10:14 am
[…] slave. If you get anything from my blog it should be this – I am always focused on the Desire Dynamic. A slave might behave in ways that please you, but you cannot negotiate genuine desire, nor can you […]
April 23rd, 2012 at 9:34 am
[…] more sex now than when he was single or dating his wife, but sex isn’t the issue here – desire is the root of the […]
May 24th, 2012 at 12:03 pm
[…] benefit. If you’re good looking, particularly with a good body, women will viscerally want you. True desire cannot be negotiated. Women don’t bang rich guys because they’re physically attracted to them; they bang them for […]
July 30th, 2012 at 9:28 am
[…] I can detail about what makes for a good marriage, but all of these really boil down to two things, genuine desire and mutual respect. Too many couples become complacent and comfortable in their marriages and this […]
July 31st, 2012 at 4:29 am
Spot on. As David DeAngelo says, “Attraction Isn’t A Choice”.
In terms of HOW to maintain that attraction, you need to engage womens’ emotions, rather than logic, as you hit on. Maintaining that desire is so incredibly important.
I wrote a post on doing exactly this a few weeks ago: http://3rdmilleniummen.wordpress.com/2012/07/12/you-need-to-stir-girls-emotions/
Keep up the great writing!
August 27th, 2012 at 12:12 pm
[…] is the Desire Dynamic – you can never force a genuine desire by means of coercion or negotiation. You can pay a […]
August 29th, 2012 at 2:11 pm
[…] The Desire Dynamic […]
January 14th, 2013 at 11:32 am
[…] Before I begin here, let me state emphatically that this is not a take-down piece. Martel’s observations here made me consider a few things I’me not sure I developed adequately when I wrote the Desire Dynamic. […]
March 5th, 2013 at 10:14 am
[…] [The Desire Dynamic] […]
August 24th, 2013 at 6:00 pm
[…] In the words of Rollo Tomassi: […]
December 3rd, 2013 at 11:43 am
[…] Who else is always saying something similar to that? I can’t remember; probably some famous feminist. Or not. […]
December 3rd, 2013 at 1:40 pm
[…] the best sex she has to offer him is dispelled, viscerally and definitively, the nature of the Desire Dynamic comes into sharp […]
December 9th, 2013 at 1:33 pm
[…] Relational Equity – Plate Spinning – The desire dynamic – Saviour […]
December 18th, 2013 at 9:11 am
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December 18th, 2013 at 9:19 am
[…] thread; Originally Posted by TheDisgruntledGentleman I'm going to leave this here… The Desire Dynamic | You CANNOT negotiate desire which is exactly what these lard arses are trying to do… One would […]
December 19th, 2013 at 4:02 pm
[…] (adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({}); Originally Posted by AbelMagwitch Naw. Never mind any of that. What matters is how you feel. Because vagina. ROFL! Originally Posted by The Invisible Man She is trying to evade the facts of reality. Either a man finds you beautiful or he doesn't. You don't get to define it. Indeed. You CANNOT negotiate desire but the gods only know that women will synchronise their Hamsters and vaginas and fuckin' try though… The Desire Dynamic | […]
December 19th, 2013 at 4:40 pm
[…] for her and her desires or marry her, and considering my current state of affairs, she attempted to negotiate her desire for me, which is a known path to destruction for any relationship, and I knew […]
January 9th, 2014 at 9:35 am
[…] and rational themselves. I post this link a lot because I think it's a damn good red pill; The Desire Dynamic | and then this one to drive it home; Saving the Best | What this guy is advocating is a marriage […]
January 13th, 2014 at 9:50 am
[…] Women weighing ten stone or less and slimmer than a size 14 are most 'desirable' says new poll – so what does that mean for average size 16 and 11st 2lb female? | Mail Online (adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({}); A new study has looked into what makes a member of the opposite sex 'desirable' and despite the average women weighing around 11st 2lbs and wearing a size 16, 94 per cent of all respondents – both male and female – said that weighing 10 stone or more and wearing above a size 14 was 'undesirable' and 'unattractive'. Yup, it's still wet… You cannot negotiate desire… […]
July 13th, 2014 at 1:14 pm
[…] man’s pain that he gave her. The ups and downs she received from him will never be seen in genuine form when it comes to you. You are just filing a role that is her best option in that […]
July 23rd, 2014 at 11:50 pm
[…] From The Desire Dynamic: […]
August 2nd, 2014 at 10:44 pm
[…] Artículo de Rollo Tomassi, The Rational Male […]
October 27th, 2014 at 1:42 pm
[…] Lindy is oblivious to (no doubt from a lack of experiencing male attention) is that genuine desire cannot be negotiated for. Many a hapless Beta suffering in a ‘tolerance’ relationship is all too familiar with […]
November 17th, 2014 at 7:29 pm
[…] of responsibility a man believes she should be beholden to is counterproductive in influencing her genuine desires. However, this is usually a self-guided hope that women will recognize and regulate […]
January 27th, 2015 at 8:48 am
Reblogged this on 254MGTOW and commented:
Gold!
February 11th, 2015 at 10:54 pm
[…] want to be the man that causes her to have that genuine desire for you […]
March 26th, 2015 at 1:17 am
THANK YOU SO MUCH YOU ARE MY FRIEND
March 30th, 2015 at 7:34 pm
At a crossroads. Can you suggest Rollo how a woman may “be led”? Not necessarily to sex, but cooking an occasional meal or making or some effort on her part that shows she’s interested in pleasing a man. I also read in a follow up here the keywords “creating patterns”.
Proud to be red pill aware and never going back.
April 7th, 2015 at 9:52 pm
[…] in terms of respect from their spouses, but this outline ignores the basic principles of the Desire Dynamic – respect is valueless if it’s an obligation, you cannot negotiate a genuine respect. Men […]
June 5th, 2015 at 11:47 am
[…] sexually attractive to their wives is to do more nice things for them. This is what Rollo calls negotiating desire, and not only does the approach not work when men try it, it makes the problem much worse. Harley […]
June 27th, 2015 at 1:18 pm
“You will never draw this genuine desire from her by overt means, but you can covertly lead her to this genuine desire. The trick in provoking real desire is in keeping her ignorant of your intent to provoke it. Real desire is created by her thinking it’s something she wants, not something she has to do.”
Okay Tomassi, I totally agree with you there.
August 18th, 2015 at 12:39 pm
[…] overt form of this that manifests is negotiating desire which Rollo is fond of saying. Just as you can’t covert contract your way to get a woman to like you the […]
October 20th, 2015 at 6:22 pm
[…] appreciation of something you enjoy the experience of you must remember that you are, in essence, negotiating for her genuine desire to do […]
December 23rd, 2015 at 12:27 pm
[…] (Enlace al original en Ingles) […]
March 14th, 2016 at 7:19 pm
Love your material, but grey on white is TERRIBLE for reading. Which I would assume is one of your goals for blogging. Please change the type color to black, or anything darker.
Most designers are morons who want things to ‘look nice’. Usability and ease for the user is what matters most. Thanks.
Keep up the great work.
March 22nd, 2016 at 9:01 pm
Yes, women are emotional creatures, and men are too. If we just scrutinize the most important decisions of life: they All had emotions involved!
In my experience the following works:
1 jealousy, just say something positive about other women, how they do things. Don’t say that you want it from her. Jealousy is a big one, especially if your woman is competitive.
2 Forbidden fruit is sweet. Say to her that she is not allowed to do xyz to you for certain time, ie 5 days. Promise to tell her why only after those days are over. If she can’t wait and brokes the promise to not do xyz to you, even better. After 5 days are over tell her when asked that you wanted to know how it feels.
3 ask any salesman who markets to women primarily. He had lots of techniques suitable to stirr your woman’s feelings.
More to come…
June 12th, 2016 at 9:14 am
[…] complain about the lack of it. That will surely dry up every vagina in a 2 mile radius. Remember, you cannot negotiate desire. That includes the pathetic, “Chore […]
June 13th, 2016 at 10:47 am
[…] process is not logical, you can’t negotiate desire. Just like how a woman determines consent, which man she deems ‘better’ or more […]
July 16th, 2016 at 4:52 am
This makes perfect sense! And something I can truly relate to after my last relationship.
August 20th, 2016 at 6:12 pm
[…] In the end, all of your efforts to resuscitate your dead bedroom are for not because you cannot negotiate desire. […]