Environmental Stresses

unravel

If there’s one Google search term that’s become synonymous with The Rational Male it’s the word ‘Hypergamy’. Seriously, Google it.

If you listen to my seminar lecture from the Man in Demand conference from last year (sidebar), you’ll get why I believe that Hypergamy is one of the most important factors driving our feminine-primary social order. I didn’t mention it in the lecture, but when I was writing the outline for that talk I titled my notes ‘Hypergamy; From the Micro to the Macro’. If you consider how women have evolved to be sexual selector or filters for what, on a subconscious level, is really directing the breeding course of the human race it behoves a man to understand the biochemical influences that predispose women to Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks.

One thing I get asked a lot about with respect to the hormonal nature of Hypergamy (ovulatory shift) is that most hormonal forms of birth control predispose women to the Beta Bucks side of Hypergamy because essentially their biochemistry is tricked into thinking it’s already pregnant.

I’ve covered this in the past, but I usually answer this by pointing out that the biological hardware and firmware of a woman still means her sexuality is cyclic while men’s is always-on. It may be that Hypergamy and ovulatory shift are less pronounced in a woman that’s on the pill, and even then women technically go off the pill on their placebo weeks, but the evolved mechanics don’t change. However, it’s no great secret that these mechanics become suppressed in women. This is just the cost of a women’s monopoly on a concealed form of birth control.

Milo Yianopolous generated a predictable outrage with his post Birth Control Makes Women Crazy, but it’s only pushing women’s indignation buttons because all his observations are true.

  • Birth control makes women fat
  • The hormones in birth control alters women’s voices to a sexually disadvantageous tone, evolutionarily speaking
  • Birth control distorts female subcoms that men consider sexy
  • It predisposes women to disregard their evolved sexual filtering mechanisms

There are other bullet points Milo covered in this article, however, the most important one I think ought to be considered here is:

Birth Control Makes Women Choose the Wrong Mates

It’s already established that going on the Pill makes you less attractive to men. But it also affects who you’re attracted to as well. Healthy, fertile women seek out men who are genetically different to them. Women on the Pill do the opposite, seeking out men who are closer to their own tribe.

Now, all that considered, when we introduce a variable like Vasalgel to the social mix it is possible that women’s sexual attitudes will progressively shift to a more natural state when and if the presumption of birth control falls mostly on men. Granted, most women who’re aware of Vasalgel at this point are enthusiastic about it. The common refrain is always the default of shaming men and how it’s about time men shoulder the “burden” of birth control , or how relieved they’d be for not having to remember to take a pill once a day and how they hate how it makes them feel.

This response from women is usually followed by, “But you could never trust irresponsible men to be honest about it, so women will still have to take the pill as a fail-safe for stupid and untrusted men.” So, at least initially, I’d have to be a bit skeptical that women’s birth control-influenced sexual habits and the social mandates that follow from them would be significantly impacted.

However, this also brings us to a point where we should consider how men and women in a monogamous or semi-monogamous state will have those relationships altered by a woman trusting a man enough, or confirming he’s on, with Vasalgel to the point that she abandons her own hormonal birth control. Hypothetically, consider this; a woman who was attracted to that man while under the influence of hormonal birth control now has her biochemistry revert back to a natural state.

There are quite a few studies that posit women’s hormonal birth control may be altering the course of human evolution. I’ve always argued that the root of women’s Hypergamous natures, their manifested behaviors, their sexual selection processes and even the rise of a feminine-primary social order can all be traced to women’s menstrual cycle and the extending behaviors inspired by it.

hormones_menstruation

For a more detailed analysis of how women’s menstruation and ovulatory shift influences women’s sexual natures and, more largely, how it influences Hypergamy, have a look at my essays You Friend Menstruation and Estrus respectively. From these posts, you’ll see that the latter half of women’s 28-day cycle is what I call the “Beta Phase” of women’s breeding preference, while the first 12 to 14 days of her ‘up cycle’ (proliferative phase) while she’s on build up to ovulation is the “Alpha Phase”.

Now imagine here that our hypothetical couple met while the woman had been on birth control for the better part of her adolescent and adult life. Her hormonal profile and subsequently her sexual selection predilections would follow along the line for progesterone in this graph. Thus, it would follow that her selecting this man was influenced by the behavioral set that progesterone predisposes her to – more Beta, more comforting, more rapport, more feminized physical features and more feminine (or feminine-identifying) sensibilities.

Once that guy goes on Vasalgel and affords her with the luxury of not needing hormonal birth control her hormonal profile and subsequent behaviors shift back to what evolution had found successful for women’s breeding for millennia. To put this into perspective, imagine the larger social implications of women shifting back to a natural hormone state. To be sure, this shift would be a gradual process, but as it stands now we have to account for the overwhelming degree of social control women are afforded in western(izing) societies today.

I don’t think it is too far a stretch to presume that the social engineering that’s led to the feminization of men today began around the time unilaterally female-controlled birth control became ubiquitous. I covered this in the Adaptation series of posts, but I think it needs to be added that the social power women wield today came as a result of this first shift towards hormonal birth control and the behavioral and psychological changes it’s wrought in women. Furthermore, men have consequently adapted to accommodate for this power shift as a result women’s shift in breeding strategies.

We now live in an age when women are expected to be Strong Independent® providers for themselves (however that’s achieved) and self-sufficient enough to make men’s provisioning relatively unnecessary, yet the characteristics of a hormonal profile of women on HBC (hormonal birth control) theoretically predispose them towards attraction to men who fit the, as Milo puts it, baby-faced ‘provider’ type.

Now consider that women who have been afforded this social power – power ceded to them from generations of feminized men who adapted to women’s hormonally influenced sexual strategies – shift back to the hormonal profile nature intended for them as a result of widespread unilaterally male-controlled BC. You get, at least initially, new generations of women who have the Beta Bucks side of the Hypergamy equation tied up nicely, but now, likely proudly, women shift back towards the extremes that Hypergamy and ovulatory shift predispose them to.

In the long term this might be good news for conventional masculinity on whole. Less Beta pandering, less ‘get in touch with your feminine side’ bullshit, more much needed male assertiveness, more conventionally male sensibilities and dominance.

Harold posted this in last week’s comment thread:

Women expect men to be dominant, problem is, society gives men no room to express it. You can’t be economically dominant because women can make their own money. Me, for example, I only know of one way to be dominant over a woman and that’s to use my god given physical strength. And I don’t say that as a good or bad thing, just pointing out something that is.

You know, I was on YouTube and I came across a Domestic violence video. And in the comments section, many young women left many of the same comments of “I wanted to leave, but it’s hard to do when you are in love”. And it made me think back over the last 20 something odd years of my life

I used to be the nice, beta provider type. And in every case, the same thing happened. Essentially I was used for what I could provide. Money, favors, a car to give rides. But not once did a girl ever fall in love with me because of the nice things I did for her. Yet at the same time, I see women professing their love for men who beat them.

These experiences have killed the nice guy inside of me and made me view women as objects to be used, especially the more I learn about hypergamy. The only exception, as far as I am concerned is a traditional woman who actively suppresses her hypergamous instincts in favor of the good guy. And shows it by her actions.

The sad truth is that the unleashing of female hypergamy is going to produce more ex nice guys who imitate the users and abusers women show that they want by her actions.

Harold’s experience and later disillusionment is a common one for men in the manosphere. However, what needs to be factored into his awakening is that his experience follows the exact scheme we can expect from women’s HBC influenced Hypergamy. For five generations now, feminized men progressively ‘get woke’ to the fact that what they’ve been taught is expected of them in order to be attractive to women are the Beta Phase attributes inspired largely by women’s hormonal imbalances. It’s when they come to realize, hopefully sooner than later, that those feminized characteristic are a detriment to their own sexual imperatives that this condition is exposed.

It’s important to consider the societal ramification that something like Open Hypergamy (even Open Cuckoldry) will mean in an era when women must look to the most Hypergamously desirable men and seek their approval if they are to breed with them after something like Vasagel becomes commonplace. Presuming Red Pill awareness, combined with women’s hubristic attitudes about Open Hypergamy spread as I believe they will, you will eventually come to a generation of highly desirable men with the awareness, power and the choice to deny undesirable women the satisfaction of their long term sexual strategy.

Whether or not the majority of Beta men will exercise this power is speculative, but the the fact remains that women’s Open Hypergamy will become more and more unignoarable to them and they will have a new determinative power women will have to adapt to and compensate for in their relating with men whom they hope to have children with.

In Milo’s article there’s a very damning comparative study that suggests the rise in U.S. divorce rates coincides directly with the advent of HBC for women.

divorce-pill

Exactly why there is such a close correlation between the rise of the Pill and the rise of divorce rates we can’t say with total certainty, but the relationship is stark. Possible explanations include: a lack of children leading to fewer reasons for couples to stay together, and… all of the items mentioned on the list above.

Though Milo is reluctant to speculate, I would suggest that this stark parallel isn’t the result of less child births (abortion rates are also commensurate with the invention of HBC), but rather it’s a result of the behavioral shifts HBC has worked in women’s breeding strategies paired with men adapting to them (i.e. mass normalization of men’s feminization). I think Milo is too kind in his suggesting a lack of children would lead to divorce, when the uglier truth is that women’s initiating 70%+ of all divorces today is the result of the Hypergamous control HBC empowers women with.

Environmental Impact

In chapter four of the book The Red Queen, Matt Ridley details how environmental factors, particularly social and population environments, have an influence on gender determination for humans and other higher order animals. A lots been written about R and K mating selection strategies in the manosphere so I’ll save that discussion for another post, but what was relevant to me (while I was listening to this chapter recently) was how socially created environmental stresses had an effect on what gender a society preferred a child be born to parents.

Contrary to popular belief a preference for boys over girls is not universal. Indeed, there is a close relationship between social status and the degree to which sons are preferred. Laura Betzig of the University of Michigan noticed that, in feudal times, lords favored their sons, but peasants were more likely to leave possessions to daughters. While their feudal superiors killed or neglected daughters or banished them to convents, peasants left them more possessions: Sexism was more a feature of elites than of the unchronicled masses.

[…]Lower down the social scale, daughters are preferred even today: A poor son is often forced to remain single, but a poor daughter can marry a rich man. In modern Kenya, Mukogodo people are more likely to take daughters than sons to clinics for treatment when they are sick, and therefore more daughters than sons survive to the age of four. This is rational of the Mukogodo parents because their daughters can marry into the harems of rich Samburu and Maasai men and thrive, whereas their sons inherit Mukogodo poverty. In the calculus of Trivers-Willard, daughters are better grandchildren-production devices than sons.

Needless to say, this chapter also covered the ‘one child’ policy enforced by China to address overpopulation and how for every 100 girls there are now 122 boys available. Beyond this, however, was the interesting hypothesis that depending on social and cultural stress present, preference for siring boys or girls has historically come in relation to which gender was more likely to make both the child and its parents’ lives easier as well as pass on its genetic legacy. There is even speculation that evolution has accounted for this in how our biochemistry changes to select for a boy or a girl in a given environment.

It’s an interesting aside to consider that until George Bush senior was in office, all prior Presidents had sons. Clinton, George W. Bush and Obama all have daughters. Granted, this is speculative, but also consider how HBC and the resulting feminine-primary social order since it was invented, has directed our culture to normalize empowering women while handicapping men – all in the name of egalitarian equalism of course.

At no time in history has it been more advantageous to be a woman in western(izing) cultures. Hannah Rosin acknowledged the advancement of women at the expense of men in The End of Men as far back as 2010. I add this here because it outlines the degree to which society has opted for the betterment of women, while simultaneously affirming the idea that men become more feminine since the time of the sexual revolution.

Is it mere coincidence that men have been encouraged to “get in touch with their feminine side”, to identify more like women, to alter their ways of communication to be more female-accommodating, and to redefine conventional masculinity as “toxic” while reinforcing a new feminine-correct definition of masculinity for men? Is it coincidence that 95% of all transgender children are boys being encouraged and affirmed by their parents and teachers to switch to being girls?

And is all of this coincidence in an era when the social condition is one that provides benefits and entitlements to girls; one in which teachers presume a feminine-correct bias in their teaching methods?

This of course is all speculative, but these are unignorable observations about our feminine-primary social order. I’m in no way implying that Vasalgel or its like will alter what already is in our social structure, but I will speculate that women’s physical and paradigm shift back from an HBC influenced mating methodology to a naturalistic one will eventually have larger societal implications.

I believe that the Red Pill men of today will be in the perfect position to exploit this, or to inform the next generations of men how to exploit this shift for themselves.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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newlyaloof
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@Dutchman, it’s not working for me either.

Blaximus
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@ Sentient ” And one week IRL vetting, is highly questionable Mitch. Highly questionable. Blax you condone this kind of approach? I think not.” Nah. Vetting a potential wife takes a fairly long time and it takes spending time in her presence. I’m just actually reading what Mitch is saying and not reflexively calling bullshit or projecting onto him. Rollo replied with links to his Love articles. That is helpful. I’ve learned how difficult it can be to try and explain certain things here in the comments without being terribly misunderstood. *I* mentioned love once myself ( and tried to… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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Re: Mitch – to a degree we’re talking crosswinds about crossroads. Mitch: “It makes me sad to see men believe that they cannot love and be loved. This is a fundamental human need, and intentionally choking yourself off from that, for what?” This isn’t the argument. The argument is that love isn’t an argument. No one here, to my knowledge, is the least inclined to thinking that love doesn’t exist between men and women, and that such a thing isn’t good and worthy to be attained. No one is saying you can’t find meaning in your relationships. Rollo’s post ‘A… Read more »

Chump No More
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Adding my voice with Sentient & Blax with respect to vetting…

A one week IRL vetting is not highly questionable, it’s irrational.

Proper vetting requires understanding a person’s values, motivations, boundaries, baggage, family dynamics, critical thinking skills, coping ability under stress… the goes on and on.

You will not know this (can not possibly know this) in one week. To claim otherwise is irrational and hence Rollo’s smackdown.

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@Chris & Rollo YaReally has mentioned more than once that the PUA community doesn’t really understand the Red Pill manosphere, finding it to be bitter. Meanwhile you can find Red Pill men calling PUA’s “puerile” right here at TRM. This is pure amusement to me, in a way. The PUA’s are demonstrating Red Pill reality all the time, but don’t “get” the larger picture, while Ret Pill men are all about the theory and long winded keyboard jockey sessions but all too often don’t put any of it into practice. TRM is strategy. Like Sun Tzu. PUA is tactics. Like… Read more »

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Mitch, lemme ask you something. Can you spot a BPD girl? Have you even ever met one?

I’m reliably informed that most BPD’s can act pretty normal for a day or two.

Maybe even for a whole week…

One week of vetting is not enough. Not nearly enough.

Forge the Sky
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@Rollo

Luke clearly doesn’t get it, he’s probably just heard snippets from Tyler about the new ideas he’s reading about.

I’d be more interested what Tyler thinks about it. If he’s ‘really into’ it, he probably has a more nuanced view of things. And that’s good news as he has a large audience he could expose your ideas to, whether by recommendation of the book or by integrating the ideas into his own.

Forge the Sky
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“Mitch is absolutely entitled to his understanding of RP, and to try to put it into practice. He is also absolutely entitled to try to figure out how to best proceed in life, to get what he wants out of life. He’s getting a heavy dose of advice here, and he seems to be listening. It’s one thing to say that Mitch needs to be careful and thoughtful, it’s quite another to say that he should fear and shy away from his wants. I too always am against fear.” Yes. Do not fear. And if you do fear to do… Read more »

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@ AR “Mitch, lemme ask you something. Can you spot a BPD girl? Have you even ever met one? I’m reliably informed that most BPD’s can act pretty normal for a day or two. Maybe even for a whole week… One week of vetting is not enough. Not nearly enough.” This is why I had no replies to the whole ” speed vetting ” thing. Fast and easy will lead to faster and easier fuck ups. It takes as long as it takes according to the actual skill of the man doing the vetting. If a man has spent a… Read more »

Blaximus
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@ AR “YaReally has mentioned more than once that the PUA community doesn’t really understand the Red Pill manosphere, finding it to be bitter. Meanwhile you can find Red Pill men calling PUA’s “puerile” right here at TRM. This is pure amusement to me, in a way. The PUA’s are demonstrating Red Pill reality all the time, but don’t “get” the larger picture, while Ret Pill men are all about the theory and long winded keyboard jockey sessions but all too often don’t put any of it into practice.” Lol. I only started watching some of the pua vids a… Read more »

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@Blax “There seems to be a semi movement afoot to form a RP/PUA mashup, but only time will tell. PUA seems to concentrate on speed. Nothing truly speedy about RP. No need for speed.” -Chateau Heartiste went full retard, leading to a pua exodus here. Syncretism was inevitable – and in my mind, beneficial. In part because: -Redpill was born of PUA. ‘Empiricism trumps conditioning’ wrt social dynamics is a surprisingly difficult alley to go down, but the pua’s did it and the result is a different way of looking at human behavior and interaction. The syncretism of pua and… Read more »

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Chateau Heartiste went full retard, leading to a pua exodus here.

Not really… more the moderation issues at CH, and only a handful of guys.

I suspect TRM will look more like CH over the next 24 months, the degree to which based on Rollo’s editorial content.

The red pill rabbit hole is very very deep…

Sentient
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Game is merely the language of female seduction. That is it. A decoded verbal and physical language.

The end purpose of “game” is totally different to each man and what they are seeking to accomplish. Some, like Hank, seek to break their duck… others to manage wrinkly old wives… some for sport, some for pleasure, some for understanding…

“Game” is not an ethos… in that sense it will always fall short and be bankrupt. it is an enabler however.

Hmm
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Back to the OP.

One writer mentioned his post-menopausal wife leaving him. I have heard many other such stories.

I wonder if estrogen therapy often prescribed for hot flashes is moving such women to the alpha side of the chart.

Sentient
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Hmmm

One writer mentioned his post-menopausal wife leaving him. I have heard many other such stories

What were the men like?

Culum Struan
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@Mitch – All the guys here have given you good advice and there’s not much I can add to that. But there’s one thing I’ll say (well, two really: if you’re so sure of your decision, why not ask her Sentient’s question? You don’t actually have to move to Russia – just ask seriously enough that she believes it and watch the reaction): I’m not married, but I have noticed a common thread to the writing style of all the older guys here who are successfully married – Blax and Sentient in particular, also HABD and Rollo but they don’t… Read more »

Mitch
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Gentlemen, I am starting to appreciate your posts and advice, though I still think there’s a lot of projection going on. There’s something about men telling other men how they should live their lives that I can’t help bristle at. But that’s ok, there’s some really good questions and perspectives, so thank you. I’m not here for validation about my own choices – I didn’t really expect it. I am here to learn from and support other men, and I’m also here because I’m excited that men are starting to wake up and respond en masse among themselves to, well,… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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I still think there’s a lot of projection going on

Mitch
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@sentient I see the point in your question, but it wouldn’t make much sense to test her with it. She lives in Ukraine, which is a mess right now, and so why the fuck would I relocate there? Or even Russia. I don’t mind testing her, and have done so, but it has to be a test that is plausible. Might be plausible for some guys, depending on what they do, but not for me, I’m a utility regulator and would have no cause to relocate there. But, assuming it were a plausible scenario, my guess is she might be… Read more »

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@ Mitch

So in ONE week, ” we have had a number of interactions where she has seriously tested me, and threaten to break up with me, but I’ve held my ground, no problem.”

And there’s the problem, YOU are a Drama queen!

It’s You that’s displaying all the red flags here and that’s why she’s giving you such a hard time from the get go.

Fix your mindset or suffer the consequences.

Colbert
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This video is not aimed at you anyone. It just matches the theme is all. Being RP is not just about scoring pussy. It’s about not ending up like this guy.

https://youtu.be/7XW45eTYR-Y

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I. H.
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“I guess I’ve decided I specialize in difficult women”.

Dude, I think you’ll wind up getting all the difficulty you want…

It’s very clear that you really don’t get the red pill. Perhaps after you get burned, you’ll revisit Rollo’s essays and actually get something from them.

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@Hmm
“One writer mentioned his post-menopausal wife leaving him. I have heard many other such stories.
I wonder if estrogen therapy often prescribed for hot flashes is moving such women to the alpha side of the chart.”

I left my PM spouse and I can’t say her estrogen therapy was a part of the problem. She did seem to go off the rails a bit more during those years but the decline of attraction towards me started way before that

@Sentinient
“What were the men like?”

This – if your are beta then the PM stage will only make things worse.

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“There’s something about men telling other men how they should live their lives that I can’t help bristle at.” And yet the first words out of your fingers were: “I’d like to encourage men . . .” And then got defensive when men bristled at it. “I’m not here for validation about my own choices . . .” There are many men who come here obviously seeking validation. Rest assured you did not come across that way at all. You came across as someone who was here to promote an agency. And was clueless about his audience. “I guess I’ve… Read more »

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Yes, she will try to wear the pants in the relationship, but she really doesn’t want to. I guess I’ve decided I specialize in difficult women. My first reaction on seeing her photos was “oh, this one looks like trouble.” And I can’t resist trouble. But I think in a good way. She’s challenging and stimulating, and I dig that in a woman. Good luck. If you seriously think that a woman in Ukraine worth a damn is interested in a utility regulator in the US for any reason other than your utility, you’re well beyond gone. But, go ahead,… Read more »

kfg
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“We won’t judge.”

When someone says, “Don’t judge me,” they’re trying to get away with something.

anon
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“When someone says, “Don’t judge me,” they’re trying to get away with something.”

That’s a quotable quote!

Playdontpay
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@ novaseeker and Mitch Men objectify women as sex objects and value their youth and beauty. Women objectify Beta men as utilities and Alpha men as sex objects. That’s we always say they have a dual sexual strategy. Women scream about being objectified as sex objects but only when it’s coming from betas as its not wanted, they are more than happy to be viewed as such by Alphas. It’s pure projection on their part as they have no problem objectifying men who are not “sexual beings” (betas) as utilities and Alpha men as sex objects so they screaming about… Read more »

Andy
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@kfg

Kind of off topic.

Do you think it is possible to wake up other people? Or does everyone have to do it in their own way?

kfg
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@Andy: There’s an old Zen saying (who woulda thunk it?) – when the student is ready, the teacher will appear. Or, in the modern parlance – the light bulb has to want to change. The underlying message is that the teacher was right there all along, but the student couldn’t see him. There are people who are close enough that a good shove can push them over the edge, and some of them find their way here. They aren’t really ready, but they’re sort of ready to be ready. For those who aren’t even ready to be ready the best… Read more »

Sentient
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Mitch, If you haven’t asserted control of the frame and are unwilling to test her… you do not have hand. Why not? Well that seems to be some sort of white knighting complex, the “missionary marriage”… Usually ends poorly. You should test her all the same… let’s make a bet. Just tell her you are growing dissected with the US and would be happier staying in Ukraine, and sell it as she can stay close to her family as a result. and then see if she does one of three things… 1) Breaks off with you immediately. 2) Throws the… Read more »

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While I generally agree with you Rollo, I think we have a long, long way to go before something like Vasalgel will even begin to allow men to exploit a more natural mating structure. The rapidity of feminine imperative social change is truly astounding, its still on its ascendancy, and its now being pushed globally. First the anecdotal: I travel a lot for business to Washington DC – the global epicenter of the FI. Last night I sat at a bar and had a very revealing conversation with 3 twenty-something women, one of whom was an attractive State Department foreign… Read more »

Mitch
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@kfg: “There’s something about men telling other men how they should live their lives that I can’t help bristle at.” And yet the first words out of your fingers were: “I’d like to encourage men . . .”</i. Telling other people what's best for them vs encouraging by offering your own experience….you don't see a difference? I don't even do that to people I know really well, much less people I don't know at all. Anyway guys, I get your point. I don't know what's going to happen. Right now, I'm about 90% sure that I will propose in Italy,… Read more »

kfg
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“If women ran things the theory goes, we’d have less war, less conflict, less violence… Society would be “softer”, more nurturing if men’s violent natures could be tempered.”

That is what the men who drafted the plan in the wake of WWI believed.

That is also what the women who led them to that belief professed to believe.

Sentient
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Mitch

And really, don’t stop laughing now: I haven’t actually had sex with her. I spent a week in a 2-br apartment with her, and we did not have sex.

OK, YSG’s this is a new form of Russian Roulette…

http://t.fod4.com/t/737caa20dc/c1280x720_57.jpg

Full Auto baby!

SJF
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@Andy Remember that Hunter S. Thompson letter you posted back here?: https://therationalmale.com/2016/01/06/the-red-pill-balance/comment-page-6/#comment-135476 small exerpt: “But don’t misunderstand me. I don’t mean that we can’t BE firemen, bankers, or doctors — but but we must make the goal conform to the individual, rather than make the individual conform to the goal. In every man, heredity and environment have combined to produce a creature of certain abilities and desires — including a deeply ingrained need to function in such a way that his life will be MEANINGFUL. A man has to BE something; he has to matter. As I see it then,… Read more »

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@Mitch:

Bear in mind that Sentient is one of the Old Married Guys here who has been advocating “toughen up, Buttercup,” and at least nominally supporting the idea of marriage; for those who can hack it.

If he is rolling his eyes at you, you might be wise to pay attention.

@SJF:

I have posted my revised version of Frost’s poem here before:

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I blazed a new trail,
And that has made all the difference.

Sun Wukong
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@Sentient

When using an automatic it’s referred to as Irish Roulette.

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@ Mitch I still cosign men doing what they want, but with more details filled in about your plans, I’m getting concerned. OK, if you don’t want to test her, or try to get her more strenuously, you should at least slow way down or apply the brakes completely. You are moving at a breakneck pace. I can understand what you are saying concerning what you want and expect from her in a relationship or marriage, but rest assured that it will not succeed in her frame… well, it will succeed for her. You must establish a strong frame that… Read more »

Sentient
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Mitch

One last thought for you… it is very moving what you wrote about your father and your family.

What would your father say to you about your current plan, if he were given all the information?

Blaximus
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Auto correct is killing me…….

Joe K
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1) Move to Ukraine. Prospectively permanently (as far as she knows) 2) Learn Russian. You’ll either be fucked over by everyone or constantly fighting being ripped off if you don’t. 3) Meet other Ukrainian women. Build some kind of social proof in the community. 4) Notice how Ukrainian guys treat their women. They have a well-deserved reputation as pudgy drunks, but their emotional strength is *way* ahead of average American betas. You’ll have to become at least somewhat like that towards this woman (anything else will not seem ‘real’ to her, not to mention respectable in her eyes). If you… Read more »

Culum Struan
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One final point from me Mitch: nobody knows anything *for sure*. All that the guys here are telling you is the odds and sharing their (well, our, but I’m not married) experiences. Is it POSSIBLE that this plan you have will work out well? Sure, it’s possible. But the odds are against it, and the more information you reveal, the the worse (we think) the odds are. Not only that, even if you are 100% sure you want THIS woman, you basically have no downside to either (a) waiting a year and having sex with her before proposing; or (b)… Read more »

I. H.
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Mitch,

Now that I’ve stopped laughing, I’ll say this as gently as I can:

ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR FUCKING MIND?

Either that or please tell us that you’re just trolling. If not, good god man, stop and think…

Jeremy: fascinating and chilling front line report.

Playdontpay
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@ Mitch To quote Rollo ” unplugging chumps from the matrix is dirty work, it’s like performing triage, save the ones you can and read the last rites to the dying”. Also from the film itself ” we have a rule we never set a mind free after a certain age, it’s dangerous, they have trouble letting go”. Mitch I think Rollo should also have linked you to his essay “average frustrated chump”. But he probably didn’t want offend you before you read his other links. I can’t believe how badly you have let your frame slip in this case,… Read more »

SJF
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What Mitch said of his father and family reminded me of this: https://therationalmale.com/2016/01/06/the-red-pill-balance/ The Red Pill Balance Red Pill awareness is both a blessing and a curse. The trick is balancing your Red Pill expectations with your previous Blue Pill idealism. It’s not a sin for you to want for an idealistic reality – that’s what sets us apart from women’s opportunism. You do yourself no favors in killing you idealistic, creative sense of wonderment of what could be. The trick is acknowledging that aspect of your male self. KFG had a comment to this point: If men did not… Read more »

Chump No More
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@Culum “I’m not married, but I have noticed a common thread to the writing style of all the older guys here who are successfully married – Blax and Sentient in particular, also HABD and Rollo but they don’t write so much about their marriages. It’s difficult to articulate because it is an attitude to the marriage that is reflected in their words, not something stated explicitly – but it is this kind of calm, “I’m in charge and nothing fazes me” matter of fact approach to the marriage and their wives, which does not at all mean they don’t love… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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Blax: ” I can’t share a 2 bedroom apartment with a woman not related to me, as a single man, without the woman getting soundly banged. Impossible.”

If a girl gets off her ass and drives over to my place to spend some time with me, it would be incredibly rude of me to not try and bang her.

I can’t imagine how a woman feels about a man who flies halfway across the world, spends a week with her, and doesn’t try and bang her.

kfg
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I had moved Solomon II to the back of the memory stack until he came up again in this thread. As it is apropos, I will SJF an excerpt from his post My Will be Done: “I am a man, and as a man, I am the King and ruler of my domain. Anywhere and everywhere I step foot is my territory. The air I breathe is mine, and those who share it do so because I allow it. I control my destiny, rule by god-givenauthority, and am responsible for the emotional, spiritual, and physical wellbeing of my Kingdom. Any… Read more »

Novaseeker
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Mitch — The thing is, you can’t get the past back. You can’t recreate it in your own life by trying to import it from Ukraine. It doesn’t work. The world of your parents and grandparents no longer exists. The relationship between the sexes is fundamentally different now due to a completely different world of social rules and mores relating to sex, relationships, men and women. You can’t really recreate in your own life what you saw in the lives of your parents and grandparents, because that time is now no longer with us, and our current times are radically… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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“Abundance is the ultimate letting go, the greatest being fear. It’s also the placing of faith on the ability to thrive squarely on the shoulders it belongs… your own.”

Good!

Forge the Sky
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Nice quotes @SJF. Also, just saw the pic of you raising the black flag over your property. That’s badass!

Sentient
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Gentlemen,

Blax: ” I can’t share a 2 bedroom apartment with a woman not related to me, as a single man, without the woman getting soundly banged. Impossible.”

Forge: “If a girl gets off her ass and drives over to my place to spend some time with me, it would be incredibly rude of me to not try and bang her.”

I see you that sentiment, but raise you one Lena Dunham…

http://cdnph.upi.com/sv/para/ss/i/4871443629671/2015/5/1/14436309059477/Lena-Dunham-quits-Twitter-over-verbal-abuse.jpg

any players?

Novaseeker
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any players?

All you do is get her to dial in one of her many female admirers and have a three way where you are having sex with the admirer, while the admirer is taking care of Dunham. Problem solved.

Blaximus
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@ Sentient

Lol, man that’s fucked up right there.

The thing is not to allow Dunham into your space in the first place. That’s how you avoid the 3 am throat fucking she’d get. In the dark. As fast as humanly possible.

Lol….. soooooo fucked up.

kfg
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@Sentient:

The walls around my castle need shoring up if that thing broke in.

Sentient
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KFG – man that Solomon II quote really sums it all up right there… everyone read it, and we can all go home…

Chump No More
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“everyone read it, and we can all go home…”

Ditto!

Sentient
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Mitch

A hot of a DPA guy, a flawed guy, but a DPA guy all the same:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/12/30/18/2FAFFC3B00000578-3376299-image-m-6_1451499516763.jpg

Look at how she is looking at him…

Forge the Sky
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@kfg Love it. It’s like an explication of the frame depicted in the Kalevala I quoted recently: I was born as all the world here was born As tones, words and stories of the primeval song I need no bow, I need no sword My kingship’s known to gods Let their song go on…. I can’t seem to remember the term for it right now, but it was a common belief in ancient times that the prosperity and fate of a kingdom was strongly tied to the personal health, conduct, and actions of the king. The king and the kingdom… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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any players

I’d play catch, but I need a team mate. You’ve only given me the ball.

Andy
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Andy
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Albert Camus is doing it for me lately. All these guys seem to die young. lol.

“To know oneself, one should assert oneself. Psychology is action, not thinking about oneself. We continue to shape our personality all our life. If we knew ourselves perfectly, we should die.”

DisgruntledEarthling
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@Sentient

I met Hunter way back in university… cool dude.

Forge the Sky
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Alright, since we’re light on FR’s here’s some vignettes. 1. So FWB girl (the one who had a BF but kept seeing me) was a bit quiet for a while. Figured I’d give her some space to get bored figure things out. Then someone told me she had moved to [faraway state] bc that’s where her bf was. Never heard a word about that from her lol, she knew with certainty that I’d tease the shit out of her for that. Already gave her an earful for reviving a relationship with a dude she’d broken up with before. AND he’s… Read more »

Sentient
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Forge I think you have it a little muddled… “It’s a good thing to have [looks] ’cause it’s always on and takes no effort.” “Basically, looks make a difference but only in the same way that other DHV’s do” Except that looks take no effort and other displays or demonstrations of high value tend to require some effort. Now you still need to do something with it, most of the time… start pouncing in that window you create passively… else it will transform into a DLV… when you get that look that spark, start to isolate, even with body positioning,… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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All this reminds me:

@kfg

the universe dropped a beat-up old fiddle on my lap and I’m busy making terrible noises with it. Just kinda going at it solo, though I watched a few short youtube intros at @SJB’s suggestion. If the sounds get better I might branch into folk, though my influences might be a bit different from yours….

https://youtu.be/Sej3V-bqSqc

The thing fuckin hurts the collarbone, but I refuse to work with one of those ridiculous bits of scaffolding people rig themselves up with. It’s like putting training wheels on a Kelson.

hank holiday
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@forge lololol garmarna yeah no FRs here since I’ve had stuff come up when I usually go out. moving tho soon so not that big a deal. few more weeks till relocate to new city. yeah on looks things — see my FRs lol. Even if you have attraction, doesn’t mean shit if you can’t work with it. Honestly, I think pure logistics are more important than most anything else. A guy with okay looks and okay subcoms who just sticks with a chick all night is gonna get more girls than a guy with great looks and great subcoms… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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@Sentient I agree, that’s good clarification. My point is that looks are a kind of DHV, not a necessary precondition for attraction. But each kind of DHV has its own mechanics. Looks are passive/always on but since they require no action they can make things stagnant if you don’t bustamove. Similarly, a story DHV has pros (actively keeps the set going, sets up topics for comfort later) but also cons (takes time, hard to do in a loud place). Eye-contact DHV has pros (quick, effective) and cons (doesn’t move things forward or keep a set together, requires correct spacing). And… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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@Hank Ya, there’s some Tyler vid about this dynamic where as a PUA you’ll go back and forth on what you think is ‘the most important’ aspect of game. Once generating some degree of attraction gets easy for you, it’s like ‘holy shit all you need is good logistics and the bang happens.’ Then you’ll have times where your logistics are good but your subcomms are off and you switch to ‘holy shit all I need to do is have good subcomms and I’d have these in the bag.’ But it’s true that this is a huge things most non-pua’s… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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Also props on knowing Garmarna, that’s kinda obscure stuff!

scribblerg
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Re: MitchTheBitch – And he hasn’t even fucked her, lol, what a fucking sap. He deserves everything he gets, what an arrogant ponce. Reading his comment it’s clear that he doesn’t only think his Urkranian post-wall whore (and she is a whore cuz she’s for sale) is a unicorn, he also thinks he’s a unicorn. He thinks they are going to make a unicorn relationship and unicorn home and live a unicorn life where female mating strategies and male dominance and his innate betahood won’t be an issue. Now that we know about the lack of sex – which turns… Read more »

Playdontpay
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@ Hank Good to see a lack of FR’s from you as when you are involved FR stands for Failure Reports. Happy to read the first one after you lose your incel status and have something positive to offer. You are still using your shitty location as an excuse despite the obvious fact that girls and men in that location are obviously getting laid. I’ve said it before but with the amount of game you are running and the period of time involved you need to accept that the problem is probably you. But no back to complaining about your… Read more »

ollieoxenfree1
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Western civilization as we know it won’t be around forever. A lot of what we take for granted was provided for us by barrels of oil. Oil which won’t last another 50 years. Conventional war will be commonplace again. Millions will (are dying) to secure what’s left of this precious resource. In order to conserve it’s use, labour intensive jobs will steadily rise. Men will get home too tired to think about sex, let alone ask for it. While his wife will have tomorrow’s pack lunch and tonight’s dinner waiting. This arrangement will suit them for a while. A couple… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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@Playdontpay

All Hank is doing is giving a more comprehensive than average view into what improvement looks like.

Pulling a SDL from mall daygame ain’t no joke. Inexperience and non-ideal circumstances are both a factor here.

scribblerg
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@Jeremy – Great commentary. Yep, what you are describing is intentional. They are making our govt and social institutions instruments of their social engineering. I read not too long ago that the federal govt had 900 depts dedicated to women across all federal agencies. Couple this with state and local institutions doing the same. But hey, Vox Day’s blog site is going to turn it all around, lol. It’s just too funny how delusional alt right types are. But all one need do is go on any of their “live streams” (mostly bad analysis, absurd conversation and complete shit production… Read more »

Blaximus
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@ Forge ” But it’s true that this is a huge things most non-pua’s don’t really get – girls will have sex with a lot more guys than they expect if the logistics are good and they’re confident they won’t get judged for it. Scray once said something like ‘Imagine if people realized that girls will bang pretty much any guy if they get the chance. Society isn’t ready for that.’ Also gets back to something kfg said when we were discussing ‘My Secret Garden’ and girls having sex with literal dogs. “Why do they do it? Because it’s safe.”… Read more »

Sentient
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Blax

Come on… no need to humblebrag about the bush – heh… You are an older stronger DPA dude… this is what PUA is trying to mimic…

sorry fella… Burden.

Sentient
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IN other words… “most other guys” will never get propositioned by a girl in the first place…

Sentient
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Forge

“Pulling a SDL from mall daygame ain’t no joke. Inexperience and non-ideal circumstances are both a factor here.”

Which is why he shouldn’t be wanking about the mall… he should be in the bars and places at night… because they exist and these girls are there…

kfg
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@Forge: “the universe dropped a beat-up old fiddle on my lap and I’m busy making terrible noises with it.” The definition of “bad neighborhood” is “one in which someone is learning to play the violin.” You’ll just need to put in the time drawing out long, slow notes until you get the hang of it. Pay attention to keeping the bow square to the strings and tracking in one spot. You should find that if you do that most of form will flow from it without paying too much attention to form. And simple songs are the best music to… Read more »

hank holiday
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@sentient @forge @playdontpay Which is why he shouldn’t be wanking about the mall… he should be in the bars and places at night… because they exist and these girls are there… boom. there we go. lol, that’s why guys like sentient and playdontpay just aren’t getting it. see, there AREN’T many bars around where I live lol. I went to a few early on, but it was rare that there were many girls there. I went to bars for about 25 hours or so, and saw maybe 5 bangable girls…and 4 of those were at this one bar over a… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
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Jeremy I travel a lot for business to Washington DC – the global epicenter of the FI. Last night I sat at a bar and had a very revealing conversation with 3 twenty-something women, one of whom was an attractive State Department foreign service officer, one a technical writer, and the third a State Department consultant. Women’s known ingroup preference (4:1) plus white knighting plus a huge excess of resources. It’s not new, either, ask people who were in the .gov back in the 90’s the last time the Clintons were running things. First world feminists determined to shove their… Read more »

scribblerg
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@Hank – Your optimism is useless in an election and is the redoubt of an amateur, not a serious observer of the political scene. As for your FRs, I have no trouble scrolling when I’m not interested and many times find them really helpful. I do not understand why guys give you shit. I’m also impressed with the level of effort and commitment, keep at it! My favorite book on selling is entitled Hope is Not a Strategy, and the same is true in electoral politics. Idiots who had no basis even opening their mouths were aping a bunch of… Read more »

Sentient
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Scribblerg I doubt that any professional politician or academician predicted Trump’s overwhelming success to date. In fact, one can cite to hundreds of respected professional’s opinions on why Trump succeeding out of the primary was impossible, and to dozens of “shot in foot” missteps that were unrecoverable. And yet here we are, Hillary herself crowing about why she isn’t 50 points clear… It is not lost on me that you put forward RealClear and NYT… two discredited “professional strength” sources of “news” and “polling data”. Come on, you can’t believe now at this late stage of things that ANY traditional… Read more »

Sentient
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Hank Which is why he shouldn’t be wanking about the mall… he should be in the bars and places at night… because they exist and these girls are there… boom. there we go. lol, that’s why guys like sentient and playdontpay just aren’t getting it. see, there AREN’T many bars around where I live lol. I went to a few early on, but it was rare that there were many girls there. I went to bars for about 25 hours or so, and saw maybe 5 bangable girls…and 4 of those were at this one bar over a period of… Read more »

Sentient
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Blaximus
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@ Jeremy Hey, good to see you posting. It’s been a while. “ The “Eat Pray Love” dynamic among all three was off the charts. They were all extremely well traveled, career-oriented, and had no interest in getting married or even having children. We even had a sidebar conversation about one of their potential beta boyfriends — a guy who incidentally and ironically loved cats (a true catch for these soon-to-be cat ladies). I asked them about their dating lives, relationship goals, etc. and they asked me about my views. I told them frankly that they were a few very… Read more »

Jeremy
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AR… Will have to check out Hoffer’s book. Reading the Wikipedia about it now and struck by the fact that the easiest potential converts are “the new poor” (likely explains the Trump phenomenon and support among middle class whites losing ground) and the “misfits” (Hillary supporters) who feel their individual lives are meaningless and worthless so join up for a bigger cause.

Two mass movements growing right before our eyes. The clash is going to epic and very dangerous.

Jeremy
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Thanks Blax. DC is an absolute cesspool as you say. Lived there for 10 years and had to leave to keep my sanity. One of the worst places on earth… Most disgusting part: It has several of the riches zip codes in the entire country. Imagine that… A place that makes, creates, produces nothing. Only siphons and leeches from the productive citizenry to ensure their sinecures.

Blaximus
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@ Jeremy

” Imagine that… A place that makes, creates, produces nothing. Only siphons and leeches from the productive citizenry to ensure their sinecures.”

Drops mic.

Excellent.

kfg
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All I know is I ain’t puttin’ any bets on this election until it’s at least a few days over. That’s how weird shit is out there.

Except that my vote doesn’t matter a damn. I’m from NY. Voting for Hillary would just be piling on, and voting for The Donald would just be pissing into the wind.

And Gary Johnson has gone all weird chasing after the Bernie Boy votes.

Blaximus
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@ Mitch

I hope you didn’t leave bro.

SJF
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I’m not a big fan of churning political debate on this blog. But. I am an acute observer. My biggest issue with Hillary is that as an INTJ woman, she is the worst, evil, bitch, feminist possible to lead other women to glory over men. At least the other most famous INTJ woman, Ayn Rand, inspired men to greatness in their lives. And she advocated for red pill. (I think.) Hillary is duplicitous. She is putting on an act as an INTJ. She fucking hates all those Peons out there and is doing this just for her agency, not for… Read more »

Blaximus
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” And Gary Johnson has gone all weird chasing after the Bernie Boy votes.”

comment image

One word for Gary: Aleppo

( not that it actually matters…)

Mitch
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@kfg:

“If women ran things the theory goes, we’d have less war, less conflict, less violence… Society would be “softer”, more nurturing if men’s violent natures could be tempered.”

That is what the men who drafted the plan in the wake of WWI believed.

Really? what would be your source for that? I’m curious. That the men who drafted the post WWII plan thought this.

SJF
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“Hey (Jeremy), good to see you posting. It’s been a while.” Cosign. Good field report in your original post Jeremy. I’m not jaded, but the more red pill agency and game I get, it is helpful to be aligned that way. I like to keep my chin up and be optimistic. I like reality and operate well in a red pill understanding. Lately my dreams have been foreboding and keep ending in dead ends for pretty much two weeks going. That is my soul talking. It is time to accelerate a new climb for agency. Nothing actually bad is happening,… Read more »

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