Stalling for Time

stalled

I was made aware of a trio of rather noteworthy stories last week all of which I found dovetail nicely on topic together. The first was Tweeted to me about the new advent of artificial ovaries and how overjoyed our feminine-concerned social order was that ‘infertile‘ women might have a better chance of conception. The report’s subtitled perspective was, ostensibly, about how making a synthetic home for a woman’s egg-producing follicles could improve fertility after chemotherapy and help women with endometriosis conceive:

Women can become infertile after cancer treatment as the ovaries and the egg-making follicles they contain are vulnerable to chemotherapy, especially for leukaemias, brain cancers and lymphomas. Removing and freezing ovarian tissue beforehand to reimplant after treatment can help women conceive, but there is a risk that this tissue will reintroduce hidden cancer cells.

Call me a cynic, but I think if a woman’s had a cancer serious enough to warrant chemotherapy I’m not sure her capacity to conceive a child is really her most important concern. A noble reasoning to be sure, but another paragraph down and we get to the real reason for the excitement:

“It may be used by women who want to delay having babies or postpone the menopause“

The method could benefit other women, too. “When fully developed, this technology may be used in women who want to delay having babies for social reasons, or who want to postpone the menopause,” says Claus Andersen at the University Hospital of Copenhagen, Denmark.

Ah yes, the Holy Grail of bioengineered gender equalism – a safe and effective means of perpetuating a woman’s fertility well beyond all reason and concern for healthy parenting would otherwise mandate. Nowhere is it mentioned, or are we to politely consider, that women’s real reasons for wanting a safe way to extend their fertility has less to do with ‘infertility’ concerns and a lot more to do with their difficulties in optimizing Hypergamy.

Earlier this year I wrote an essay entitled Assurances in which I argue that women will demand that society and science accommodate and insure their indefinite fertility while they sort out why it is they can’t seem to find the right (and Hypergamously cooperative) guy with which to start a family. I began that article by outlining the recent worker’s benefit of ‘egg freezing’ some larger companies were offering in order to entice (executive level) women to work for them – women, we are meant to presume, are so absorbed by their careers that they need to dedicate their most fertile years to their professional aspirations. All in order to stay on an equal footing with hyper-competitive men of course:

The latent purpose of developing technology to freeze a woman’s eggs, for instance, is to cheat (or give the impression of being able to cheat) the otherwise natural process of fertility that women are beholden to.

The latent purpose of every pop-cultural trend that contributes to the perception that women can realistically exceed the window of their fertility is offered as an assurance that women have more time than would be naturalistically expected to optimize Hypergamy.

Ostensibly, the message for women is the cliché of ‘having it all’ – reassuring women that they can have a rewarding career and make a significant difference in their lives and the lives of others as well as realistically having a meaningful family experience later in life. The unspoken hindbrain message is that a woman has more time to optimize Hypergamy.

I took a lot of criticism for being so presumptuous in that assertion. How dare I suggest that professional women didn’t deserve to be afforded the same opportunities men, who peak in their own SMV well after women’s prime fertility years have passed, had in life, career, and family. The thoroughly modern women of today weren’t forestalling pregnancy because of any personal misgivings or difficulties in attracting Mr. Right, these women needed to freeze their eggs to have more time to develop their careers, don’t you know.

The Real Reason Women are Freezing their Eggs

Turns out, not so much. Actually not at all,…

They are often portrayed as hard-hearted individuals who are putting motherhood on hold in order to climb the career ladder.

But women who freeze their eggs are actually waiting for a man who is perfect father material to come along.

Researcher Kylie Baldwin, who asked a group of women why they froze their eggs, said: ‘I think they were looking for a hands-on father.

‘And it was the absence of this particular type of potential father, not just the absence of any partner, that led them to freeze the eggs.

‘It’s not just about not having the right partner, it’s about having the right dad for their child.’

Interestingly, some of the women were in a relationships – but froze their eggs because they didn’t believe their partner was father material and were hoping someone better would come along.

I should add a side note here and point out the importance these women place having “the right dad for their child.” It’s so important that they’d expect a scientific miracle to give them enough time to find this very important father. However, I’d encourage my readers to compare and contrast this to the complete lack of importance men are expected to place on their own roles as the biological father of a child with regard to raising a child that is not his own. You see, while a woman will freeze her eggs in order to find the perfect hands-on Dad to breed with, men are told that even when a child is not his own he shouldn’t concern himself with his own self-importance in breeding or raising that kid.

This study was an interesting confirmation of the assertions I’d made in Assurances – Women want an assurance of Hypergamous optimization. Egg freezing isn’t about medical concerns or even professional sacrifices; egg freezing is about Hypergamy and women’s increasingly diminished ability to satisfy it later and later in life. In the manosphere and in my book Preventive Medicine there’s an understanding that women’s Party Years, the years she rides the “cock carousel”, are dedicated to the pursuit of Alpha Fucks – her prime directive is generally focused on a short term breeding strategy. Women’s entitlement extends to the point now that they demand science extend this period and assure them they will have ample time to complete their quest for Beta Bucks, motherhood, provisioning and parental investments indefinitely, or at least as long as men might be able to live up to their peak SMV qualifications.

The women were predominately middle-class and highly educated and were aged 38, on average, when they had their eggs frozen.

Mrs Baldwin, a sociologist, said: ‘I asked them about what their motivations were and I would say none of the women underwent the procedure for career reasons.

‘Instead, it was very often down to their perception that it was not yet the right time for them to be pursuing motherhood for one reason or another.’

And, as you might expect, what article about women’s struggle in finding the right guy would be complete without shaming men for their reluctance to participate in playing the roles the Feminine Imperative demands they play in order to fulfill women’s sexual strategies?

The comments about men’s reluctance to commit echo some made by one of Britain’s leading fertility doctors earlier this year.

Professor Adam Balen, chairman of the British Fertility Society, said: ‘There is a notion that young men are not committed to relationships in the way they have been in the past.

‘Childhood for some men is being extended into 20s and 30s when they’re not committing to a relationship.’

Again, it’s childish men’s fault that women have been brought to egg freezing science. This then brings us full circle to NPR’s recent story about economists “puzzlement” over why men are leaving the workforce in droves.

“I wasn’t going to go back to work. It was almost going to just be a nice transition into retirement for me — a very early retirement. I mean, I’m only 36 years old,” he says.

And if he does go back to work, he worries about the prospects.

“Things move really, really, really quick [in IT], and I’m worried that if we can’t make it work, that I’m going to go looking for a job and they’re going to say two years out of it, ‘Sorry, brother, you don’t have what it takes to work here anymore,’ ” Rekkedal says.

Tara Sinclair, chief economist for job-search site Indeed.com, says brawny jobs are being replaced by brainy ones, and that trend doesn’t favor men.

How’s that for an interesting social cycle?

There’s a common refrain you read in both the femosphere as well as religious bloggers about the state of extended adolescence they believe men are extending today. I even wrote about this ridiculous impression of men’s clinging to juvenility in Are You Experienced.

Men forestalling their “adulthood” – a characterization that is entirely dependent on how well a man aligns with women’s imperatives – by dropping out, or otherwise not preparing to be a potential provider for a family a woman deems is at last necessary to her, are considered ‘kidults’ or extending their adolescent years. Professor Adam Balen in the egg freezing article says men are extending “childhood” into their 20s and 30s.

Ironically, you’ll find the most ardent critics of extended adolescence in the writings of Man-up-and-marry-those-sluts religious male bloggers intent on virtue signaling their acceptability to women who will benefit most from their ‘manning up’ and overlooking their Party Years indiscretions.

On the other hand, women wishing to forestall motherhood – a characterization which used to imply a woman’s entrance into adulthood – are never characterized as “extending their childhood.” Women who opt to delay marriage can always fall back on the unacceptability of ‘most men these days’ to excuse their own extension, or they are “focusing on their career.” Women can never be cast in any way other than Strong and Independent®. In fact, this is the first, default presumption we make about a never-married or never-mothered woman.

The Daily Mail article about the truths of women’s reasoning for freezing their eggs puts the lie to this presumption. Women’s latent purpose in egg freezing is to extend fertility until their ideal Alpha man arrives in their lives.

Then, of course the blame become circular on men – men not accepting the role that open Hypergamy expects them to already be aware of and accept wholesale makes him guilty of extending his childhood. Women then blame their spinsterhood on a lack of acceptable ‘adult’ men.

There is never any incentive for personal insight on the part of women, not even when she’s far past her reasonably fertile years, to say nothing of her capacity to intersexually compete with her sisters for those acceptable men. Nowhere is there an afterthought that acceptable men would actively avoid her or find her unacceptable for his own long term investment.

Advancing Gender Dynamics

Finally, we need to add to this the obscene amounts of on-tap social validation women enjoy today. I’m not the first author to recognize or write about this, but there is a very real psychological dynamic that humans in this era have had to deal with which no other previous generations had to consider. Our capacity for technological advancement has progressed so quickly over the past century (and 16 years) that human beings are scarcely capable of understanding what these advancements imply to us as a society and largely as a species.

One reason I believe evolutionary psychology will always have a place in the manosphere and Red Pill discussion is because it aids us in understanding how our minds have evolved and what we can expect from ourselves, or cultures our intersexual dynamics in the context of how we’re experiencing these technological advancements. I had a reader tell me once about how appalled his grandmother was at the idea of a sperm bank when they first appeared. Today it’s part of the scenery, but when they appeared it was scandalous to the mindset of that era’s acculturation. Fast forward from the 1960s to now; in just over half a century think of the tech advancements we have with us today that we take for granted, but our grandparents would marvel over. Now think about how those advancements are interpreted by our hindbrains in so short a time.

Communications technologies, and now a social media explosion, affect our very plastic, yet feral hindbrains in ways that our new globalizing culture can’t keep pace with. I bring this up, because it’s important to consider how women’s feral selves are affected by an instantaneous attention and affirmation that previous generations of women craved, but never dreamed of having this kind of facility with.

As the conversation is won’t to do on this blog’s comment threads, the topic du jour picked up on the merits, or lack thereof, of monogamy vs. legal marriage vs. pLTRs (primary long term relationships or ‘plural’ long term relationships as the term fits). I’ll be addressing this in the next post, but I’ll foreshadow a bit with this; sifting through one of his usually long comments, this bit from YaReally stuck with me (emphasis mine):

“But even if your Game is as tight as YaReally’s, try interesting a modern young chick in commitment. Go ahead. You’ll be in for a shock. A woman in her prime years is so high on a never ending validation train that she’s sure it will never end. Why should she commit? There’s no incentive to do so. She always branch swings to better, and better is always available before she’s even tired of what she’s got.”

You hear them say “I wouldn’t give up my social media for that dream guy”, but you don’t hear why they won’t. The “why” is what we’re up against. They are conditioned to think they will never hit the wall, Amy Schumer at 45 gets the rich doctor in the end, they have endless offers of commitment and monkey branch higher and higher up the tree in their prime.

I have fuckbuddies who’ve disqualified high status guys. and rich jacked 6-pack dudes for like one or two errors. My favorite was one who disqualified a guy because the area of medicine he picked to specialize in wasn’t EXCITING ENOUGH. So she interpreted that as him not having enough ambition. She turned him down for such a silly reason. But why wouldn’t she? She has dates lined up anytime she wants with guys as high value or higher than him around the block whenever she wants. If she takes care of herself the attention train won’t stop till 35+. Why would she want to limit her Hypergamous options by settling in her early 20s?

That’s why those girls look at you funny when you suggest giving up social media. They can’t comprehend any reason TO. It doesn’t compute.

In a globalizing culture where both science and social order is predicated on the satisfaction of women’s imperatives, why indeed would any woman believe she isn’t entitled to it all? Both technology and social reengineering have placed women into a position where their hindbrains cannot hope to interpret the experiences they afford, much less have the attention span necessary for the insight to process how they should best cope with changes they’re scarcely aware of or take for granted.

This post is the first in a series detailing the contrast between how our evolved biological natures conflict and cope with the changes our rapid advancement demands of us, and how our intersexual and social relations are changing as a result of it.

327 comments

  1. Hey Rollo
    I honestly think your website is awesome. Amazing articles on the alpha mindset and the mindset any beta male should have to acquire if he wants any sort of regular success with women. The problem I have is its all very abstract. I understand that this is the mindset I should have but how do I acquire it? Just reading the articles gives me an idea of what I aspire to be like but its not rewiring my brain so it’s second nature. My ask or question is – Do you think you could make some sort of article on how to get to your level! What should I be doing day to day to get closer to instilling that alpha male mindset and making it a part of who I am forever.

    Thankyou

  2. As I’ve told several of my friends, if I could do one thing to make it more difficult for women such as this, my idea would be to ignore abortion clinics and burn “for profit” sperm banks to the ground

  3. What’ll be really amazing is when all the women preserving their eggs realize all the guys they would want to fertilize said eggs will be interested in younger chicks by the time they’re “ready” for children. The shrieks of indignation and anger will be the stuff of legend.

    You might be waiting for the “right time” sweetheart, but he isn’t.

  4. “A woman in her prime years is so high on a never ending validation train that she’s sure it will never end.”
    “why indeed would any woman believe she isn’t entitled to it all?”

    And frontline on teaching them this lesson? @Yareally, who I nominate as the first RM Feminist of the year ™. Why? Because he is our resident PUA, and PUA is a response to hypergamy, but not an answer. In fact, PUA plays to the FI almost perfectly!

    Yareally has spent a decade learning how to be any woman’s fantasy for an evening. He knows exactly how to give her those feels that she hoped for when she decided that she wanted to go to the club for a ride on the carousel. And he never sticks around to get boring, after all, there are more girls that need servicing the next day. He actually works more than one woman at a time, so he can leverage the egos of several women per week.

    For this kind of quality validation, you would expect a commensurate price, but actually Yareally offers his services for the low, low price of free. That’s right, women have access to a man who has trained for years to know just what to say, just what to do, and just how to fuck them silly, and he does not take a penny for providing this service!

    But he does not stop there, he also spends a good deal of his time teaching other men how to follow in his footsteps, showing them how they too can learn the techniques of talking a woman into doing what she knew she wanted to do before she left her apartment. With his hard work, there should be no problem finding an endless supply of men willing to validate the fuck out of the female race until the robots take over.

    These feats have more than earned him his place as the first RM Feminist of the Year(tm). Please join me in congratulating Yareally on his achievement!

  5. @Sun Wukong
    “What’ll be really amazing is when all the women preserving their eggs realize all the guys they would want to fertilize said eggs will be interested in younger chicks by the time they’re “ready” for children. The shrieks of indignation and anger will be the stuff of legend.”

    lol this.

    “Yareally has spent a decade learning how to be any woman’s fantasy for an evening. He knows exactly how to give her those feels that she hoped for when she decided that she wanted to go to the club for a ride on the carousel. And he never sticks around to get boring, after all, there are more girls that need servicing the next day. He actually works more than one woman at a time, so he can leverage the egos of several women per week.”

    Stop, I’m blushing!

    “but actually Yareally offers his services for the low, low price of free.”

    What? No, I get enthusiastic pussy and usually a fun/cool fuckbuddy for my services lol The things that a lot of guys will pay insane amounts of money to get. I’d say that’s a fair exchange, she had to get her hair and nails done and I had to learn how to be charming. We both win in the end. 😉

    “a man who has trained for years to know just what to say, just what to do, and just how to fuck them silly, and he does not take a penny for providing this service!”

    When you put it like that I sound like a modern day Robin Hood. I’m flattered!

    “talking a woman into doing what she knew she wanted to do before she left her apartment”

    That’s VERY debatable.

    “With his hard work, there should be no problem finding an endless supply of men willing to validate the fuck out of the female race until the robots take over.”

    Just the hot young ones. And men are already doing this anyway WITHOUT getting sex in exchange. I’m just helping them learn how to actually GET something out of it besides a “thankyou” and the friend zone lol

    “These feats have more than earned him his place as the first RM Feminist of the Year(tm). Please join me in congratulating Yareally on his achievement!”

    Boy are feminists going to be surprised!

  6. I am glad you know I’m not gunning for you, Yareally, but in the last thread that thought of how PUA, which is kind of the first “hack” that men tested to see if they could control this stuff has evolved in a direction that ends up helping the FI. This happens a lot with guys figuring any tech out, figuring out that you can make “Y” happen reliably when you do “X” is a game changer, but often the first step in a long and painful evolution.

    Obviously I don’t expect or want PUAs to stop. In fact, I want them to do more. I would love it if PUAs would do stuff like try to see if they could get provisioning long term from their plates. If a good PUA could do that, it would be a step towards proving that women will provision under the right circumstances, if they can’t, it would further solidify the idea that women don’t “do” male provisioning.

    Some good points were made last thread. Things are bigger than they seem. Trying to reinvent marriage is like trying to rebuild a city while it is still under attack. There is a “why” for which marriage was dismantled by a “who”. You probably want to to know the answer to those questions before you decide how to direct your efforts.

  7. “where their hindbrains cannot hope to interpret the experiences they afford, much less have the attention span necessary for the insight to process how they should best cope with changes they’re scarcely aware of or take for granted.”

    This is the big thing right here. She wasn’t SUPPOSED to have access to this many options. It’s like extreme stimulus overload combined with the rapid pace of these changes happening (like I say compare now VS pre-Tinder VS pre-Facebook VS pre-smartphone VS pre-cellphone etc) combined with just not enough time to really process all of this and adapt.

    It’s like society took a bunch of kids and is just DUMPING endless candy on them and then we’re shocked they don’t develop great eating habits and have stomach aches and pick the least healthy candy, and then even when they’re tired of it we dump MORE CANDY on them until they become jaded and disillusioned like this chick Tyler interviews at 27 seconds into this video:

    Listen to how she views the world. She’s a model and lawyer too lol

    Watch the whole interview it’s only a few min and it’s pretty funny, Tyler corners her hamster by pointing out that she doesn’t want all the guys who WOULD commit to her and her view of the world is that any guy can get a girl and all guys cheat because the 10% of guys she WANTS are those guys, she doesn’t want the guys who WOULD be faithful, ’cause they don’t have game.

    Listen to her “including ME or no?” “I’M not like that, all these OTHER girls sleep with any guy” etc etc so fucking funny.

    And watch at 2:29, a big tall in-shape dude stands in front of the camera, RUINING the attention she’s getting for a split second and she just shoves him out of the way because he’s ruining the attention she’s receiving, she’s the princess in the spotlight get out of the way and then get disqualified by her lol

    Also funny to watch Tyler trying to laser her for the camera but she won’t have it lol There are a few points where if they were in isolation she might, but not with the camera etc on her in public like that.

    Now this is some LA chick who’s for sure jaded, but she’s also the type of chick surrounded by rich jacked good-looking connected dudes and even surrounded by THOSE options, she “can’t find a man”.

    And she is 100% convinced she’s right and everything she says is gold.

    And listen to how she reacts near the end after Tyler spins her around and is like “you’ll find a guy who will want to marry you and be nice to you and compliment you send you flowers and–” and she’s just like “ew no never never never ew noooo” like it would be torture.

    And then she whips out the business card with her name and number on it because Tyler might be her ticket to fame and fortune or more high-value guys. In a relationship she would say “oh it’s just for business” but the reality is her hindbrain is spreading it’s its potential Hypergamous option net as wide as possible and technology and social media has given her the ability to gather more candy than she’ll ever know what to do with.

    How much do this chick and her social circles of female friends value the term “wife” “husband” and “marriage” when they actually HAVE those things and are unhaaaaaappy for a few days/weeks/months lol

  8. It’s like society took a bunch of kids and is just DUMPING endless candy on them and then we’re shocked they don’t develop great eating habits and have stomach aches and pick the least healthy candy, and then even when they’re tired of it we dump MORE CANDY on them

    Pfffft, yeah but we would never do that. If we did then like everybody in the country would be fa–oh wait.

  9. @yareally

    I wanted to followup from the last comment thread.

    ““HB6: “Nah I’m not going out home with you.” I don’t really react
    HB6: “Are you mad or like disappointed I’m not going home with you?””
    Note how she’s even flat out verbalizing that that was a shit-test to see how you’d react. She’s not REALLY not going to go home with you if you play things right, she’s just seeing how abundant you are, how outcome dependent you are, how much you assume attraction (do you bail or just keep having fun just assuming you’ll be going home together at some point), etc So when you don’t react at all she’s like “so are you any of these low-value things?” lol You’d be surprised how many guys fall into responding to this like “well, I just–” and get into a logical discussion with her about it and how much they like her and bla bla”

    While it maybe what you explained, I actually think it wasn’t a shit-test. From her tone of voice, I thought she was super worried that she was going to lose me if she didn’t fuck me that night. From fucking things up in past situations, I’ve realized I generally push too hard in these situations, so I still think I played it right, but I don’t actually think it was a shit-test. If anything more of a comfort test, but mostly she was was legitimately worried that she’d have to fuck me to keep me.

    “Does she have a boyfriend or anything? Either way some girls just aren’t into it (could be shy/insecure etc or just not into it for whatever reason, doesn’t matter).”

    Nah I think she’s just more on the conservative side.

    “You’re playing really solid game in general, like I can’t remember if I’ve read your Field Reports before but props to your game skills in general.”

    I haven’t posted too many but I’ve been reading your archives going back to 2012 religiously for the last year, and they have been an absolute godsend (except for the outdated text advice from like 2012 about turning shit really sexual). Thanks for giving back to the community. If you ever need any professional introductions or anything, let me know and I’ll try to return the favor.

    “She WANTS to kiss you but isn’t into PDA? She’s been kissing you all night. She’s saying “find a way to isolate me that DOESN’T trigger my ASD”. But you’ve fallen into her frame at this point and are trying to logically convince her to agree to “be a slut”…she WANTS you to find a way around her ASD. My favorite analogy for ASD is it’s a prison guard and you’re trying to bust her out of jail, so it’s you AND her against her ASD, she WANTS to escape with you but if her ASD catches you two, she has to go back to the cell.

    Now a more solid play would have been pitch the back to your apartment for the view, then she says the “It’s only our first time hanging out” part, and imagine if instad you had used 1) reversing the frame combined with 2) a False Time Constraint, you would get something like: “woah just what do you think is going to happen lol I have to work in the morning I can’t stay up late, we’re just popping up to check out the view while I call you a cab, next time we can get up to more trouble but I can’t go to work exhausted and I think you would wear me out😉 lol”

    This is gold. I’ll try this next time and maybe rehearse it a little so that it comes off smoothly instead of me stuttering over my words and stuff.

    “Also you DHV’ed so hardcore all night combined with the deep rapport that part of the resistance might have been that she sees you as potential boyfriend material so she doesn’t want to come off too easy/slutty,”

    I demonstrated even more value than I wrote about in the report. She definitely wants to have my babies.

    For HB7: “I would go ghost all week and ping her next week.”

    What are some good random ping examples to reopen? My goto is callback humor but I’m already boarderline using it too much and don’t want it to come across as my only schtick and also don’t want to communicate that I over-remembered the interaction (low value). A one I like to use is “So do you still remember how smart, charming, and humble I am” and try to open something up from there, but wondering what some other good ones are.

  10. @Via Vitae
    “This happens a lot with guys figuring any tech out, figuring out that you can make “Y” happen reliably when you do “X” is a game changer, but often the first step in a long and painful evolution.”

    The thing is NOT learning game isn’t going to make guys NOT try to get laid (talking the average guy not MGTOWs lol). We’re biologically driven to want that. Like Tyler says “the only thing worse than a guy who’s learning to pickup girls is a who’s NOT learning, because he’s not going to just sit in his apartment, he’s still going to TRY to pick them up when you take him out, he’ll just be really bad and creepy and needy and weird with it”

    So we said “look we’re all going to chase this shit, so can we find a better system of consistently succeeding at it that we can teach men across the board”, and we DID that, blowing everyone’s mind because we beat the impossible odds that said “you either have it or you don’t” and a guy like Tyler who was supposed to be weeded out of evolution has more options than most guys will EVER have.

    Same thing with the kids stuff and why I brought it up last thread. We are biologically driven to reproduce, so men are going to keep TRYING to have kids. But right now we have a broken system with the odds stacked massively against them (unless they’re UMC/religious community types which aren’t the average man), but just like the anti-game guy will still creepily try to get girls because he’s hardwired to, guys will still TRY to have kids and raise them with a woman, it’s just more and more likely to fail and result in broken homes and depressed/suicidal men and fatherless children and the stats will get worse as robots take over men’s jobs and VR porn/webcam girlfriends/etc stunts mens social skills and makes them even less capable of interacting with women successfully.

    So if guys are going to try to have kids ANYWAY, then just like we figured out pickup, we should put our heads together and figure out a better safer system. Because they’re not going to NOT do it, even a lot of MGTOWs are still dating. They’re not committing (usually lol), but they may want kids and shit but just not see a way to do it safely and/or will try to repress those feelings or find other outlets (VR etc…shit maybe we’ll see VR CHILDREN you raise to scratch that nurturing itch? lol) Like, the % of men who absolutely have no reproductive/sexual drive/instinct at ALL (if there were no negative conseqeunces to acting on it with girls they think are attractive) is very low.

    So I say it’s time to find a new strategy to offer them, just like we offered pickup to men who were failing at a system stacked against them.

    I understand after that last thread that this might not be the place to discuss and nail down and make any kind of progress with that system, and that’s fine, maybe I’ll take it to the TRP forums or something. But the building is already burning and crumbling around us. We can wait for it to fully burn to the ground for the 90% of men who aren’t in UMC/religious cliques and THEN talk about building a better city, or we can be pro-active and adapt to the evolution of the field we’re seeing in front of us (those of us reporting from the field trying to LTR <25yos in 2016) and stay ahead of the curve.

    (I’M NOT THE ONE STARTING THIS CONVERSATION OR TRYING TO CARRY IT OVER, I’VE BEEN SPECIFICALLY ENGAGED WITH QUESTIONS/COMMENTS REGARDING IT THAT I AM SPECIFICALLY REPLYING TO BUT HAVE NO DESIRE TO CARRY OVER THAT LAST ARTICLE’S NIGHTMARE COMMENT SECTION INTO THIS ONE)

  11. @stringerbell
    “From her tone of voice, I thought she was super worried that she was going to lose me if she didn’t fuck me that night.”

    I took it as a challenging tone ’cause feisty girls will taunt like “you must be mad you can’t get me” lol

    Either way though that doesn’t make it not a shit-test…like, a shit-test isn’t necessarily a negative thing (despite the name lol). Think of it as “an opportunity to observe how you’ll react and collect information”, if that helps. Like, she’s putting something out there, something that might be totally legit, but what she’s looking for is how you’re reacting to it and how that’s affected you or changed things, so that she can gather more of an idea of who you are, what she is to you, what you’re about, etc

    Trying to think of a good analogy here…like with a cat that you don’t know, you approach it to pet it, and that’s a legit thing, you’re not “testing” it or negatively testing it or anything, like you’re not approaching it as a TECHNIQUE, you just sincerely want to pet it, BUT you approach slowly and pay attention to how it’s reacting TO you approaching and if it hisses or runs up to purr against your leg, you’re able to guage more “okay now I know what this cat is like and how it views me”.

    Does that make sense? So she can legitimately have to go home that night and legitimately be worried about losing you, but the point of the whole exchange is that she’s instinctively observing how you react TO that so she can get a better guage on the situation…that’s why she asks if you’re mad or disappointed because she’s trying to get a read on how you feel.

    “so I still think I played it right”

    Ya you played it just fine when she said it the first time, so you still did good there.

    “except for the outdated text advice from like 2012 about turning shit really sexual”

    lol ya, no one was expecting text game to evolve so fast…I mean who the fuck saw TINDER coming lol All my amazing text game skills are now pretty much useless and I’m having to re-learn text AND voice phone game (or better yet, how to AVOID having to resort them lol). Kick in the nuts but what can ya do lol

    “Thanks for giving back to the community. If you ever need any professional introductions or anything, let me know and I’ll try to return the favor.”

    Happy to have helped. Just pay it forward and help others the way I was helped and paid it forward to help you.

    “This is gold. I’ll try this next time and maybe rehearse it a little so that it comes off smoothly instead of me stuttering over my words and stuff.”

    Ya, you’ll find that you’ll be able to apply it to tons of situations so you’ll get used to it fast lol like EVERY pull you do might as well be to see the view and involve the FTC etc so that you can narrow down when it does/doesn’t work and where to tweak, VS trying different pull excuses every time (unless you come up with a better one in the set). So you’ll go through the whole “but I work in the morning so you have to go after one drink” line a million times till you get to where you’re setting the sexual “it’s on” frame sooner and don’t get as much resistance (like where you don’t even have to really verbalize where you’re going, she just comes with you and you both know it’s on and her ASD/LMR is diffused ahead of time etc, doesn’t happen all the time but it’s nice when it does).

    “I demonstrated even more value than I wrote about in the report. She definitely wants to have my babies.”

    lol ya she might start thinking she doesn’t deserve you so pay attention and calibrate incase you have to either lower your value (self-depreciation, share an insecurity/vulnerability story) or raise her value (give her an easy qualifier to pass or just compliment her on something that isn’t her looks) so she feels like “okay it makes sense that he would like me then” VS “why would he like ME? It must just be for sex :(”

    “What are some good random ping examples to reopen?”

    Scray, you got any defaults (hank asked about this at the end of the last thread and I’m curious too about what you send when you do long-term pings (like the 6 month chick))?

    I usually just use a funny meme pic or article that’s related to something we talked about. Remember the magic of that first interaction is wearing off so you’ll probably not want to use much humor that can be interpreted negatively/serious/offensive, like view it as just an opportunity to either get her on voice phone where you can actually game her, or get her to meet up, VS trying to game over text (like I was doing in 2012 lol)

  12. @YaReally
    Tomorrow night I’m supposed to go out sarging with the PUA bartender I’ve been hanging out with. Awesome dude that’s friends with basically everybody. Really looking forward to it as he knows the scene in town a lot better than I do.

  13. @YaReally:

    Actually, I think switching the jobs hurts your case. Doctor is inherently a higher-status job than lawyer (or at least one with less negative associations).

  14. @Sun Wukong
    Good shit dude, remember anyone he introduces you to you’ll have value by DEFAULT. Focus on stuff like lasers and rapport etc, like ASSUME that you have value by default because you’re with him. And pro-actively join the conversation/interactions, don’t “wait to be put on”, step up and ENGAGE the people you run into that know him, even if you engage sloppy that’s better than not engaging at all and getting shoved in your head being the third wheel to conversations he’ll probably have with people he runs into.

    @mavwreck
    “Actually, I think switching the jobs hurts your case.”

    lol pick any job that parents would be happy their daughter’s future husband has I don’t care what it is. The point of it remains the same.

  15. We face an interesting future,men.

    We may soon see the day when the only intimate interaction a woman ever has with a man is feral, hindbrain-gratifying sex.

    Every other need from basic resources to childcare to artificial conception will be handled by technology , government agencies and an enabling society of caretaker beta males.

  16. YaReally’s comment enscapsulates the modern equation so well. The result? Choice (or at least the perception) overload. From adolescence, women dont consciously know any different: Never ending adulation and pandering just for existing. Then the small, gradual, imperceptible, but accelerating physical decline. Like having a hand on a gradually boiling stove, but social media and culture blocking the signal to get off at the optimal temperature.

    In contrast, men, save the QBs, movie stars and natural alphas, are foreign to this and know the hard knocks of life.

    The equivalent would be 75% of the male population having 5-10 women blowing up his phone weekly offering blowjobs for the chance of committment.

  17. @YaReally

    Also, nice neg by Tyler during the interview: “why are you licking your lips?”

    RSDTodd in one of his videos says neg is any statement that would put the girl inside her head(he used as an example the “you blink a lot lol.” This chick starts qualifying right after that. Am I wrong?

    @Korin

    “I understand that this is the mindset I should have but how do I acquire it?”

    You might find this usefull
    (short version: the mindset changes through taking massive ACTION towards the right direction)

    @Rollo

    Fertility preservation(or Oncofertility) specialists call it the “new pro-choice movement” http://oncofertility.northwestern.edu/blog/2012/08/new-pro-choice-movement-fertility-preservation

  18. @YaReally, great stuff. Some very good concepts. Thanx.

    Also, don’t ya love it when manoshere geeks who can’t get laid come here and talk about how “PUA’s validate women for free” and “PUAs are feminists” “PUAs are supporting the FI” (monosphere dweebs- you know who you are!)

    Duuudes … get a grip!

    Instead of obsessing about the FI, deal with the MI.

    What is the Male Imperative, you say?

    Easy: “to get your rocks off regularly with multiple beautiful women.”

    Once you’ve got “the woman thing” handled, then come back here and espouse thoughts about the bigger issues.

    I guarantee you will have a different attitude (one that doesn’t reveal a nebbish betatude.)

    To paraphrase Master Yoda: “Blue balls are the path to the Dark Side! Blue balls lead to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering”

  19. And on to other matters.

    As usual, the elective medical procedure business is hyping egg freezing as something simple and safe any gal can do to enhance her options.

    Of course, the realities of the procedure are much darker than the sunny literature from for-profit clinics would have you believe.

    It takes more than just a cryopreserved egg & some sperm to produce a functioning baby 9 months later. A 46 year old womb can’t do the same job that a 23 year old womb. Maybe that’s why IVF-implants with frozen eggs have an overall average 80% rate of failure to deliver to term.

    From: https://newrepublic.com/article/120077/dangers-and-realities-egg-freezing

    ‘After reviewing 981 fairly small studies, of which only 112 addressed safety and efficacy concerns, ASRM’s practice committee wrote: “While a careful review of the literature indicates egg freezing is a valid technique for young women for whom it is medically indicated, we cannot at this time endorse its widespread elective use to delay childbearing.”’

    Or how about this:

    https://www.wired.com/2014/10/egg-freezing-risks/

  20. At 38, these women must be aware that their chances are slim. It must be desperation that drives them to this.
    Most will end up in the same position as the childless women who have posted on the below website:
    Gateway-women.com
    Scroll down to see the comments of women who have missed the boat. But please don’t comment or troll the site as it is a sensitive issue.

  21. What happens ASSHOLES when the LOSERS sperm supply COWARDS is being FAGGOTS artificially suppressed PUSSIES by Vasalgel?

    Remove the all caps put-downs to see the actual point. I don’t really mean them. The manosphere seems to have a massive endemic blind spot for Vasalgel. I’m checking whether cursing you out like that will affect it.

    Women can freeze all the eggs they want but. . . .

    What happens when there’s not enough sperm available to fertilize them?

    What happens when the “oops”-but-not-really-accidental pregnancies drop to a fraction of the current rate?

    What happens when the false paternity rate collapses?

    For all the talk about sexbots and VR pr0n, https://www.parsemusfoundation.org/projects/vasalgel/vasalgel-faqs/ seems a lot more likely to have a much bigger effect much sooner.

  22. @Ya

    Sure that lady lawyer Tyler is interviewing is attractive at first glance, but you can also tell just from a two-minute interview that she’d be pure hell to be in a relationship with for longer than one night! Hell, I bet even the Uber home from the club would be a boner-killer if she’s talking and not making out with you. Yeesh

  23. Women who freeze their eggs to extend their fertility window into their forties and fifties fail to understand that they’re still going to be in their fucking forties and fifties trying to attract a high value man. Male sexual instinct does not actually care how fertile women are; it cares about how young and tight they are. This shows just how absolutely little women care about understanding what a man actually wants. Perhaps if they get enough plastic surgery and botox in addition to the egg freezing and artificial ovaries they can fool some men, but they won’t be nearly as successful as they’re hoping. Old women who have left ‘the wall’ in the dust and opt for plastic surgery never look as good as they did in their twenties anyway. Not to mention the fact that all these procedures combined will only be available to the wealthiest of women, unless of course Obamacare gets expanded to cover these things under a Hillary presidency. This probably won’t work either since insurers are already pulling out of the exchanges all over the country. Overall the whole thing seems like fools gold for the average woman who will end up becoming a single mother or cat lady after squandering her SMV peak riding the cock carousel instead finding a good man to start a family with. Ah but then there’s always the desperate beta or daddy government with the gibs to take care of the aging slut who happened to shit out a couple of kids along the way. This is exactly what men should picture when they hear the words ‘strong independent woman’.

  24. @Via Vitae, Feminism has been around for almost 100 years since the Roaring Twenties. PUA has only been around for a more than a decade. To use an analogy, the hypergamy train has left the station 100 years ago and has been fueled and refueled countless times before PUA came along. YaReally is simply telling dudes how to hitch a ride to the train, have fun, then exit before authorities site them for not having passes. PUA can’t create and fuel something that has been in motion well before its time.

    Drop the snark and debate like a logical man.

    @Rollo, In essence, hypergamy tries to tell women that their eggs are equal to male sperm, a cheap, limitless commodity that will never run dry. But just like with any other commodity, the less of a commodity that exists, the higher its value. If women were designed to fuck the field like PUAs, they’d be creating millions of eggs each day. lol.

    Now woman aren’t crashing into the wall; they’re crashing into the freezer.

  25. @YA

    “So if guys are going to try to have kids ANYWAY, then just like we figured out pickup, we should put our heads together and figure out a better safer system. Because they’re not going to NOT do it, even a lot of MGTOWs are still dating. They’re not committing (usually lol), but they may want kids and shit but just not see a way to do it safely and/or will try to repress those feelings or find other outlets …”

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3787410/Could-babies-conceived-without-mother-Healthy-embryos-non-egg-cells-landmark-experiment.html

    The money quote from the article: “This means the extraordinary result raises the possibility of ethically-questionable applications that turn nature on its head by doing away with the female side of reproduction.”

    Lol. “ethically-questionable applications”.

  26. @Atticus…. Yes I read that article also. Basically any human cell has the potential of being turned into an egg. I don’t know if they have artificial sperm yet, as sperm is needed to fertilize the egg in the research. A uterus was still needed or at least used in this research to grow the baby.

    The artificial womb (once developed) and the artificial egg may be game-changers in the future, which will redress the golden uterus and male disposability issue.

  27. The comments are priceless. My favorite from I assume a woman, “What right do we have to bring a child into the world without a mother!” Never a thought to the children from IVF and sperm donors without fathers.

  28. Working in medicine and infertility clinics in particular, the commodity of human life is frank, disturbing and akin to the new slavery of children. When women see children as purchasable, the life in the child is ultimately disposable. Treating women’s willed dysfunction is big business.

    Prayer helps, but my hindbrain reminds me of the Truth. Just writing about it chills me.

  29. The egg-freezing propaganda seems incredibly cruel in its attempts to convince women to forestall childbearing. I wrote a bromide for young women that is chock full of truth but will convince nobody given the media juggernaught of disinformation. The punch line is you can always get a damn job but the window for childbearing is narrow and final.

    Girls! The Work-Life Balance Plan the Feminists Don’t Want You to Know

    http://wp.me/p6QFjS-3B

  30. With artificial eggs, the new fertility window will be based upon the viability of the uterus and/or limited by the bodies to handle the strain of pregnancy. With an artificial womb or surrogate uterus even that will be removed or displaced to another. It’s a Brave New World to consider when human reproduction at some point may on an industrial scale controlled by the government.

  31. I have some orthogonal experience here. I have two female friends who have asked me to be a sperm donor, even though they are married. One was on a “break”, and the other’s husband had testicular cancer and is shooting blanks. I suspect in the first case that the “break” was solely to get pregnant by someone other than her husband. In any case, I have at least two biological children, but being raised by other families.

    For anyone who might find themselves in this weird situation, make sure you go through a fertility clinic and sign the paperwork divesting yourself of paternal responsibility. If you use less official means of impregnation, you retain paternity, legally. And you should not ever be handing a woman that much power over you.

  32. @redlight

    Hill is such a fat chode. Getting butthurt after being reminded that he’s exactly what he’s tried hard to be? Somebody send him a copy of Rollo’s book.

  33. Getting butthurt is one thing. Getting so butthurt that you cancel all of your promotional tour dates that have millions of dollars of other people’s money riding on them is another.

  34. This endless, fast, ever higher branch swinging – I refer to this as super hypergamy – it is old hypergamy on `roids. How can there be enough branches? Some chick swings into the top 1%. Then she climbs through that to the top 1% of 1% (her guy is now literally one in a thousand). Then a couple more (1% ^4) and it’s one in ten million. There is literally only one MSA in the USA with ten million men – New York (assuming a 50/50 m/f split – an assumption with issues). The next highest is LA, with a “measly” 6-7 million men. Our Heroine has swung herself to the very highest branch on the biggest tree in the entire country. Meanwhile, one presumes the top 1/8th of the women are also swinging for that branch. That’s 1.25 million broads putting on their warpaint to go climb on this branch as well. I know plate spinning, but . . . spinning a million? I mean, even if he owned a Viagra factory. . .

    There is the evil twin to super hypergamy – hyper-atrophy. Women are ripening and dropping down. And the overall mass times velocity has to be the same going up as going down, else there are no new spots on the higher branches for the incoming. So most women pretty much branch bounce their way downwards just as fast as they climb. I think bounce is a good metaphor – because each one hurts like hell.

    I don’t see how the numbers can really support wide spread super hypergamy. Even assuming the top 10% spun 5 plates each, that supports the better half – heh – but it makes the climb slower. An 8 SMV makes it into the club, even half way up say, but that’s it. At some point, all the branches above her are filled with 10s and occasional 9s.

    Which is good, we do not want wide spread hyper-atrophy. I already know far too many bitter, single older women.

  35. @Blaximus

    I wanted to pluck this post of yours out of the last discussion and thank you for sharing your experience:

    „I have been in a position to have been able to observe some people that have been in the swinger thing, to Trent Lane’s point. My first wife and I were seriously approached 3 times to join in the festivities by a particular couple.
    We declined.
    I was able to observe this particular scene for well over a decade. This is why I speak of ” over time “.
    Even though there were rules and agreements, it still all fell apart and dissipated into mostly sad and lonely people with broken spirits in the end.
    The average person cannot pull this kind of thing off over a lifetime.
    Both men and women in the ” club ” lost their shit at different times, and the situation became untenable.
    I was also able to observe men having kids, a few had multiple kids with different women. In 2 examples ( without going into personalized details ) I was literally able to observe the outcomes in sickness and in death.
    Both men in the examples took care of and spent a measure of time with their kids.
    Long story short…
    One man suffered a catastrophic stroke in his 60’s. His children, who were not thrilled with his lifestyle when it became apparent, gave zero fucks and declined to care for him or even visit him in the long term care nursing home he wound up in.
    But before that??? He was having a ball and boning across America. He took care of his responsibility. He spent some time with his kids. They all bear his name.
    Yet, they pretty much hate him.
    How’s that happen?
    The 2nd man had a very similar story. He came down with advanced Parkinson’s. Within 2 years of diagnosis, he was bedridden and unable to speak. His brother took care of him. Out of his 4 children, 1 made an attempt to visit him and help take care of him.
    She was quickly overwhelmed and faded into the background.
    When the man succumbed to his illness, his children came to his wake for less than 30 minutes, and skipped his funeral altogether.
    I always will wonder what these men were thinking about while having so much time alone in the end.
    So, theory is one way to try and figure out how to have kids, don’t sign legal contracts and have sex with whoever you want. But also factor in the long term possible negatives.
    Or don’t.
    Guys will figure it out.
    If Gene Simmons can……..

    See, I too know guys like this who made it without monogamy and still having children, taking responsibilty, even when life got very tough and complicated. One guy I know even raised his kids into adulthood without their mother because she spaced out on drugs in India or somewhere like this. I know a couple of older dudes like this out of the last second wave hippie- or first wave New Age generation or whatever it was. Some where married, some weren’t, but all have children.

    They all dismissed monogamy, probably not all from the start but somwhere in their life it started. One guy like that I know has two adult daughters and as far as I can tell (I’m not really close to them) their relationship is perfectly alright. They regularly meet, at least, and I see them laughing together. In fact they are wonderful to watch together, I love it to see them. He still lives with the mother of his daughters but travels each summer to some European beaches to meet with other old school New Agers or whatever they are. They closely observe some mind altering herbs in areas where this is legal and then they all screw each other on the beach, from what I understand.

    He is doing this since the late 80’s. Now who is to judge if this man was a better/worse/more responsible/less responsible father than the average dead bedroom married monogamous dude?

    One thing I CAN say: He may seem a bit eccentric and certainly not the average guy about whom we are talking while discussion a potential blueprint for avoiding monogamy while having children. But he sure as hell seems a fuck lot more alive and happier than the average married + kids deadbedroom guys that are all around us, not even to begin with the broken damaged shells of their former selves who got forced through the full textbook case of divorce rape.

    So as we see its possible for a man to do this:

    „He was having a ball and boning across America. He took care of his responsibility. He spent some time with his kids. They all bear his name.“

    „Both men in the examples took care of and spent a measure of time with their kids.“

    Why they may have troubled relationships with their kids later on can have a zillion reasons and monogamy + marriage won’t prevent this, from all we know. And that they suffer strokes and ill health in age is sad and horrible, but that this may be the result of their swinger lifestyle and could have been avoided through legal marriage and monogamy is a conclusion we can not legitimately draw lol

    Anyway, thank you Blaximus that you brought value and your experiences to the discussion we were/are having. I always enjoy your posts.

  36. Ah, the Fertility Bubble. One more unnatural outcome of the unnatural state of leveraged equalism.

    A young woman will sign loan docs to the order of $100k in order to cruise through State U. without burdensome jobs getting in the way of study-abroad (add $5k of Chase Visa debt to the tab) or riding the Molly train around the EDM tours all summer.

    All while expecting her Gender Studies or Communications major to slingshot her into some cushy job writing grievance pieces for some clickbait rag. Or not.

    While the lucky few are perched their ivory towers signaling their virtuous SJW ways for $36k/year, the rest end up chasing mediocre service jobs between casual subsidies from men they are banging. Ski weekend? Sure!

    But in either case, the dissonance of her hollow careerist ambitions will wear on her until she is properly balanced by boxed wine and psychotropics. Lubed up on big-pharma and “so grounded” by her weekly regimen at the Church of Yoga, she wiles away her time with Netflix and staging the perfectly over-produced shot for her Instagram.

    Meanwhile, the meter is still running on her leveraged education and the sand is falling from her ovarian hourglass in clumps. But she has the whole world telling her that she should never settle, that 40 is the new 30, that she is the Prize.

    Yet somehow all those boys she dismisses or kisses via Thursday night dick roulette on her Iphone somehow never seem to become The One. So she gets a dog. Maybe one of those frenchies that almost looks like an actual baby.

    Since her job as a social media manager isn’t going anywhere she decides she should go back to school for that Masters. Cue more loan docs.

    Well shoot, now she is just so “busy” living her life on her terms that even those dick-roulette boys are just not worth the effort. And by effort she means: “All They Want is Sex.” Plus she’s kind of hanging out with a guy. Except he’s always working and never seems to actually take her out on a Real Date.

    She starts to feel something. It’s the tide of sexyhawt men blowing up her phone receding into thirstyneedy creepers who don’t even have real jobs. Oh, and that cute and much younger barista started charging her for those extra pumps of vanilla in her latte. Probably for the better. She’s totally going to lose those “few extra” this year. And you know what? She doesn’t really need a man to be happy.

    Credentialed with Education and Experience she hits the market again. Now she works in nonprofit because she’s all about helping people. You see, money isn’t everything! And she is sooooo over hooking up. Those days are behind her.

    She’s an amazing writer, so witty! So of course her OKCupid profile is nails. She’s outlined all of her conditions and expectations in that clever-cute way that no other woman has ever done before. Plus: must love dogs. Her dog is her world. Well, so is her job. And her awesome friends. Did she mention how grateful she is? Well, she has been building gratitude for some time now.

    She casts a wide net (-5 years to +4 years) and she waits…..Her therapist says she’s might just be too intimidating for most men and that the Right Man will love her for her edgy attitude and ambition. Yet something is nagging. She’s always had guys just kind of show up. What is wrong with men these days? Where Are All of The Good Men?

    She wishes that IT guy from work would quit with his awkward chitchat. He’s nice enough and always goes out of his way to help her out but he Just Doesn’t Get It. Not like Jake does. Even though Jake is kind of a jerk. But its not like they are Dating. She only sees him when he is in town for a sales meeting. Plus she thinks he probably has a girlfriend back in Boston. Jerk!

    Her sister just had her third kid. Gawd her brother-in-law is such a bore. But she loves their house, so cute! She wants that. Not the boring husband, but to live in a nice house with a yard for the dog. Maybe a garden.

    She is certain that it will come. Everything has always just kind of worked out for her. She’s just going to Put it Out to The Universe. But just in case, maybe she should think about the future. I mean, she’s 38 now. She’s got that money her Nanna left her. Maybe $18,000 to put a few eggs on ice is not a bad idea. She’s probably never going to pay off her loans anyhow. Besides, if He never shows up lotsa women have kids on their own. She can still be a Mom.

    TL;DR The culture of the FI takes young women’s natural hunger for producing and nurturing and perverts it into an insatiable hunger for consuming the attention and resources of others. And so they are primed to borrow more against their future, including leveraging what remains of their fertility in order to continue the free-feed from the buffet of self-indulgence.

    Meanwhile, I’m keeping my cell phone in my front pocket as I heard that cell phone radiation may lower sperm count.

  37. @YaReally

    Everything about how women behave is proof that they are purely emotional/instinctual creatures. Any time a woman shows an ability to reason, it is nothing more than a backward rationalization of what the feels have already established for her as absolute truth. This is why women do in fact destroy civilizations and should never be in charge of anything ever. The West is doomed as long as women are seen as equal to men. Until then our downward spiral will continue. Betas, white knights, and daddy government enable the illusion of equality to exist. Could Game be the savior of The West? I certainly think it can play a very important role. I Just hope that men who practice game eventually realize there is more to being a man than a notch count. You know what’s more fun than sex? Conquering your enemies. Let’s rule the world as Men of The West and destroy all who stand in our way. If men got back to conquering like this, there wouldn’t be a woman in sight without soaked panties.

  38. @Razorwire

    God damn man. The picture you just painted probably describes a full two thirds of white women with four years or more of higher education. No wonder white birth rates are in the tank in both Europe and North America. The girl power independent woman lifestyle is going to make whites extinct. An honest marketing slogan to women who pursue higher education should read: Help destroy the white race NOW!

  39. @Razorwire, standing ovation, man!

    I got stuck in traffic this morning and got behind this woman that I could see was on her cell phone. That bitch did the “look up/look down/look up/look down/look up” thing for a full 35 minutes, I shit you not! The only time she took a break was to take a chug out of her Starbucks coffee cup. Only way these bitches will make good mothers is if they kids look like cell phones.

  40. @newlyaloof
    “…hypergamy tries to tell women that their eggs are equal to male sperm, a cheap, limitless commodity that will never run dry. But just like with any other commodity, the less of a commodity that exists, the higher its value.”

    Indeed. I see the story as working both ends to justify the economics; the unbearable cheapness of being is in Rollo’s title, “…Time”. I.O.W., telling women that their eggs are actually precious but they (can) also have plenty of time in which to optimally transact their hypergamy.

    The eggs must have high value because they are (a) unique to her, (b) finite (or else why the need to freeze), and (c) superior to sperm because the sperm must remain the vehicle for her hypergamous reproduction. As in, her precious egg is worthy of only top shelf sperm.

    And then there is the dirty little secret that a great many of the few eggs that actually get turned into babies are done so via the purchase of sperm. Which is like kind of Tinder, except all of the men swipe right on you and instead of pictures you get their CV and football stats.

    The premise of female genetic superiority and favoring (optimizing) the female reproductive strategy requires that the egg be precious. Time, on the other hand, is already sold cheaply. Women are long since inculcated to the idea that time is on their side to play with as they see fit.

    The “sell” of the freeze is just one more means to leverage this idea to assuage the last throws of her reproductive hypergamy and preserve that portion of her ego that is biologically tied to her reproductive status. Until the next ponzi is created.

    The “cheap as sperm” is really lodged in the notion that Time is cheap – or at least the ability to buy more time is “priced” cheaply. Whats $20k in the grand scheme if it means you can keep the Truth at bay for a handful more years AND preserve your dwindling resource of eggs?

    Its a kind of self-funded pedestal that dovetails nicely into the occasional romp with a younger guy and the myth of the Cougar. Feelz great!

    The dirty secret of the frozen eggs selljob is that not only is there a massive up-front cost, but there is usually a maintenance cost as well. Give this trend a few years and we will see heartstring fempowerment pieces about how “I pulled the plug my frozen eggs, and I am OK with that [because I’m using the money I save to take that trip I’ve always wanted]”

    Or there is always going lesbian, a la EPL, and cooking up a nice nonwhitemale baby to slignshot back into the hierarchy.

    Being realistic – which, of course is unpopular and unromantic, I’d wager most of those eggs will go quietly into the night. The few that do get put under the lamp will likely be fertilized by fish bought from the monger on the way to heroic single-motherhood.

    Besides, buying sperm is a natural way to transact the pent-up hypergamy. Its a kind of pay-to-play time-travel back to her salad years – that she already got for free, but never mind. Of course there IS the benefit of being able to punch (purchase) over her weight in sperm, so to say.

    By the time a woman is contemplating freezing her eggs she’s already at the event horizon of potential motherhood. Buying more time at the point when reproductive time is accelerating toward zero is just part of the Big Lie that is why these women have overplayed their hands in the first place.

    I have a friend going through this right now. She’s lovely, but so deeply intoxicated by the cocktail of feminine superiority and its corresponding euphoric feelz that she would rather undergo hormone treatment and drain her savings than dwell in introspection long enough to unearth the truth as to why she doesn’t have what she says she wants. Just toss in a new tattoo and some sage-burning and wait for what is Meant to Be.

    And while there are male corollaries, the difference is she STILL has options, she STILL has upward career mobility, and STILL gets regular sex (from non-husband material) men if she wants it, for no other reason than she is a marginally attractive woman. But she CHOOSES to dwell on her pedestal, alone, rather than descend into the legions of men who actually might marry her.

  41. “Only way these bitches will make good mothers is if they kids look like cell phones.”

    LOL. Bring on the EMP.

    I was recently at a wedding. Yes, those do happen. UC/UMC merger. My mate, 10 years her senior (40/30), is pushing for a couple more years before kids. She’s ok with that.

    At one point, she does the math out loud, “I’ll only be 32, that’s just right.”

    Her married-with-kids bridesmaids nod along approvingly, while holding back the wry smiles of knowing they have already secured their place at the table. Her single bridesmaids nervously giggle and (not) jokingly tell her she can even go a few more years. In part because as empowered single ladies it is their duty to sell the same program they are buying, but also in part because they are afraid of being left behind.

    They are visibly fearful of not keeping up with the status race of the UMC while simultaneously celebrating their freedom to Experience (teach yoga in Costa Rica for a few years while going all “From Here to Eternity” with the occasional surfer or resident flexible man-bun.) Hence the Cymbalta.

    What they all fail to see is how lucky the bride is to secure a man of that caliber, period. But at the same time, that its not all luck. She cooks like a pro, dotes over him like he’s running an empire, and is constantly demonstrating her ability to improve their shared lives.

    Before they met she was dutifully building a career that is naturally flexible, while somehow managing to not fall on her back every weekend.

    Interestingly, the man has had 25 years of unadulterated playboy gallivanting under his belt – and that if not for his desire for said kids he’d have 25 more. Everybody knows it. Everybody loves him for it. One of those typically terrible bridesmaid toasts even said as much, “I always knew you would get the total hot-cool guy catch”

    So while those single ladies at the wedding fret over the arms race of social status, they are also in no way making life choices or prioritizing to put themselves in that (LOL) “white” dress anytime soon.

    Luckily for them, most of them are hot and come from money. It will work out fine. But for the rest of the women, who try to emulate the “in spite of myself” approach, I guess the Frigidaire awaits. Which is sad. And also perhaps indicative of the macro, in which the elite are gutting the middle in order to pay the fiddler to play more sweet songs to the deprived so they won’t notice the ship listing toward the depths.

  42. @A Wise Man,

    The College Debt bubble parlays nicely into the Fertility Bubble, doesn’t it?

    The inversion of value is nifty. Education (present) value is higher than the (present) value of fertility. So borrowing from the future and delaying fertility is prudent. You’ve got all the time in the world to make babies but you need college (and the subsequent corporate slavery) now.

    When that plays out, simply go back to that same market and invert the sell: you’ve got precious little time to make babies unless you preserve your eggs. So its prudent to make that “investment” even if that means more debt.

    You’ve got all the time in the world to work, go back to school, find the “right guy”, whatever you want. Riiiight.

    I wonder how long this will run before the facade starts to split open, when the egg freezers go tits-up like the for-profit ITT Tech did once the powers that be decided they weren’t worthy of playing with the big-boys in the scheme.

    @newlyaloof

    White knight tears are merely the lube on the sprockets. Nice to have, sure, but the machine would grind on without their saline dreams dripping into the belly of the beast.

    As for split ends, that’s for certain. Whats with this trend of women coloring their hair blue and/or purple or even gray? There’s a total babe at my gym who has blue-gray hair on purpose. Would bang, but WTF? Are they really running out the clock at the bingo hall already? Talk about inversions. Like 40 is the new 30, ugly seems to be the new pretty.

    Or maybe its the androgyny trend or perpetual adolescence? Who knows. I do see far more of the purple-haired broad loaves than I do of these supposed perpetual peter pans who aren’t sweeping these fickle birds and their fleeting fertility off into the sunset. But then I am a man, so I tend not to focus on guys in tights and feathered hats.

  43. “Only way these bitches will make good mothers is if they kids look like cell phones.”

    Demonstrably true….

    I heard a study the other day on why all the kindergarten kids in certain zip codes all of a sudden turned into antisocial asshats. e.g. in one specific year all of a sudden the number of trouble makers spiked, and it persisted thereafter with all subsequent cohorts of kids.

    A teacher did the math and figured out that kids born to mothers who just got the newly released iphone (5-6 years ago) are the assholes. Seems moms became super absorbed in their phones and failed to actively engage in their little darlings lives on an on-going and active basis. As such the kids have a stunted social development and are unable to appropriately regulate their emotions by the time they get to a collectivized school situation. Because mom had her face glued to FB, they didn’t offer the reassurances that infants need to learn to self regulate. So by the time the kids get to school they are far less manageable.

    They are now tracking this phenomenon out from high income zones to lower income zones that track the historic propagation of smart phones with screens and social media apps. It’s like a slow motion nuclear blast of toddler ass-hattery going off from high income zones outwards travelling though most schools in the City

    Personal anecdote time, my Brother in laws wife is doing precisely this, she was a stay at home mom for 6 months on a parental leave, she spent 95% of the time facing her screen gazing at the outside world and failed to notice much about her baby until it was belting out a good solid tune looking for milk. She barely handles the child, just kind of treats it like a warm cup of coffee that needs a stir from time to time. She almost never took it outside even for a walk in the stroller, then couldn’t figure out why the kid was flipping out when she did, not realizing really simple shit like the kid had cold toes, because she has developed no sympatico with her own child, sorry, accessory to life she could not even intuit when her baby was suffering discomfort or why.

    Sad as fuck really.

    I will say this for most young fathers today, I think, I know they do a better job than a shit ton of mothers precisely because they don’t have the social / cultural backing of families and societies. Everyone expects them to fail. So most of the young fathers I know try to make up for that by working hard, learning actively how to deal with children. Being pragmatists for the most part, they end up being far more in tune with their children’s lives, wants and needs than mothers who simply assume they will know what to do and are supported by a society that tells them their husband is a retard anyhow.

  44. Women are pretty good moms. Watching small kids is tedious work, and women do it as well or better than men do. Maybe moms in the last 5 years have become horrible, but that would not be the way to bet.

  45. @ Agent P

    ” A teacher did the math and figured out that kids born to mothers who just got the newly released iphone (5-6 years ago) are the assholes. Seems moms became super absorbed in their phones and failed to actively engage in their little darlings lives on an on-going and active basis. As such the kids have a stunted social development and are unable to appropriately regulate their emotions by the time they get to a collectivized school situation. Because mom had her face glued to FB, they didn’t offer the reassurances that infants need to learn to self regulate. So by the time the kids get to school they are far less manageable.

    They are now tracking this phenomenon out from high income zones to lower income zones that track the historic propagation of smart phones with screens and social media apps. It’s like a slow motion nuclear blast of toddler ass-hattery going off from high income zones outwards travelling though most schools in the City”

    I can mostly vouch for this. My wife is a teacher and we have discussed this many times. Unfortunately the result will be a booming uptick in ” Special needs ” classes.

    The poor kids don’t actually have any real special needs other than an attentive mother.

    ” I will say this for most young fathers today, I think, I know they do a better job than a shit ton of mothers precisely because they don’t have the social / cultural backing of families and societies. Everyone expects them to fail. So most of the young fathers I know try to make up for that by working hard, learning actively how to deal with children. Being pragmatists for the most part, they end up being far more in tune with their children’s lives, wants and needs than mothers who simply assume they will know what to do and are supported by a society that tells them their husband is a retard anyhow.”

    Truth.

    People do not realize the importance of good dads. It’s not so much that it is Hard Work(tm) as much as it is paying attention and interacting in a meaningful manner.

    The investment of time pays gigantic dividends. The schools aren’t equipped to deal with or handle hoards of unruly’s. They have a catch-all that will effect the child for years and years to come.

  46. @Yareally,

    Regarding the engage to win video. I feel as though men have lost the ability to actually rate a woman’s smv.
    What led me to bring this up was a thread on Sosauve. A woman is accused of killing her fire chief husband. The OP started the thread because he wanted others to grade the 3 pictures of her in the article.
    The first picture is of her and her (deceased) husband. She looks average. Dyed blonde hair, heavily made up around the eyes, but little if nothing around her lower face.
    The second picture is the best. It’s her facebook pic. Heavy use of foundation. Contact lenses, light shading pink lipstick, fake eyelashes and mascara.
    The third picture is her police arrest, mug shot photo. No make up whatsoever and no contact lenses. She’s a dog’s dinner in this one.

    My point is that men have brought into the high end value market women are creating for themselves, through extreme make up techniques.
    A HB4 can now transform herself into a HB7 with little or no comment from men or inner rationalisation on his part for why this is so.
    The woman in that Tyler video is nowhere near as hot as she appears, but that doesn’t stop men from acting like she is.

  47. @ollie

    She may not “look” hot to you, but in her own world, her perception of herself trumps YOURS unless you indicate otherwise.

    Most guys are just “food” to her and act like food. Guys can learn to NOT act like “food”, but it’s not til that guy actively tries to be the “predator” that they start to see where they actually fall in all of that.

    BOTH ends of that spectrum of guys fall well into her “Slut Skillz”. And she has shit tests for both.

    Even if you intellectually knew every thing you needed to know, some bitch would come out of the woodwork to try you, only for you to jump 3 feet in the air and have her become disgusted with you, when you could have been genuinely annoyed with her predictably female behavior and gone back into the peace and happiness of your own inner world where you remember that you’ve met countless boring sluts like her. Who take your interest in her for granted as a way to rationalize why you haven’t talked to her.

    It’s a way for her to bolster the market to her favor while keeping you as the “outsider”, and she doesn’t even realize it. Til you remind her SHE’S the one who has to impress YOU.

  48. @yareally “The thing is NOT learning game isn’t going to make guys NOT try to get laid […] or try NOT to have kids.”

    All men should know game. PUA is one way to apply game. Probably the best way to learn it. It will probably always be the most accessible and popular way to apply game. By itself, PUA happens to serve the FI.

    “So I say it’s time to find a new strategy to offer them, just like we offered pickup to men who were failing at a system stacked against them.”

    Male strategy for kids? marriage. It was obviously invented to tame the FI so that beta men would have a reason peacefully cooperate in civilization. It’s equally obvious that its being deliberately dismantled by the same people who brought you compulsory schooling, globalism, and gangster rap.

    “We can wait for it to fully burn to the ground for the 90% of men who aren’t in UMC/religious cliques and THEN talk about building a better city, or we can be pro-active and adapt to the evolution of the field we’re seeing in front of us”

    yeah…OR you could be proactive by figuring out who/what is attacking, and you know, DO something about them. Not seeing the threat is a frame battle already lost. And by the way, women are not the enemy, they are being played just like men. It was easy, just cater to their natural solipsism and they will never question the too good-to-be-true deal they are getting until it is too late.

    After basically learning how to reliably talk half of humanity out of their pants, do you think that women could have waged a multi-generational, global campaign to disempower men without any man figuring it out until we got to this mess? I don’t think that this just happened. So if you try to just adapt, your efforts will be thwarted, because something doesn’t want you to have what you want.

    If you were just saying “I just want to fuck as many hot women as I can before the end-times”, there wouldn’t be anything to say, but you said you wanted more, you wanted to figure out a method, informed by game, that lets all men have a crack at having a kid without being turned into a battery for the mommy-matrix.

    Even if you think that this dismantling of the family just happened naturally, the mechanism of that affects how you go about constructing your response, and my point with PUA alone is that it really just serves the purposes of women without actually helping men with their sexual strategy.

    PUA is a proof of manosphere ideas, but it is not an answer to the problem of why the hell women are being put over men, or how to deal with that. Maybe they weren’t maybe they were just made “equal”, and hypergamy did the rest. But the people running things could not be happier with the outcome, look how they take no step to fix it, and actually keep turning the screws harder and harder.

    For each individual guy the prescription is to become part of the 10% through self improvement and game. But for this society as a whole the idea is more and more of those remaining 90% percent of guys are going to have an increasingly crappy life, one worse than their parents, grandparents, etc. Its getting worse out there for an increasing amount of guys, and the only thing propping it up is half-measures which will eventually fall short. Governments and other entities are aware of this and you can actually see them slowly implementing more restrictions on free expression, free movement, etc. They clearly see trouble, but their answer is not to fix what is broken but instead to move towards increasingly oppressive levels of control over people.

    Their frame certainly sounds like a shit sandwich for most guys, and maybe not even for the 10 percent, because what if they fuck up and things go sideways, there might be a “drawing” for a new set of 10 percenters. I actually agree with trying to turn things around for every guy, but if you are going to think along those lines, you have to acknowledge what you are up against. kfg is pretty smart and if he thinks its too late, he’s probably right. On the other hand, just because a guy is fucked, doesn’t mean he has to take it lying down.

  49. @ Via Vitae

    “…. and gangster rap.”

    You mean Time Warner? Lol.

    There is definitely something afoot that is bigger than ” just women “. I’ve stated that here in the comments on many occasions. What the hell, one more time – Women only have as much power over men, as men allow them to have.

    I understand the drive to find the perfect workaround, but it is true that one must figure out who(m) is necessitating the workaround in the FIRST PLACE, and why.

    The only way I cosign the ” Men are just fucked ” narrative, is when I consistently hear men state that ” we are fucked “, without bothering to grasp why this may be so.

  50. Serious question for commenters here. May be o/t, so forgive me, but I’m curious for perspective –

    Is the notion of a man ” going down swinging ” or ” not going down without a fight ” an antiquated, dead notion?

    In 2016?

  51. @Blaximous

    “Is the notion of a man ” going down swinging ” or ” not going down without a fight ” an antiquated, dead notion?”

    Nein.

  52. Excellent post, Rollo. It goes without saying that the Pill and liberalized divorce law was the first step on this path, but few appreciate its logical conclusion. Especially feminism, in the face of evolving technology. Pendulums swing both ways, and the reverse can be devastating.

    In particular, your discussion of evolutionary biology/psychology and evolving technologies is spot-on. One element many men (and almost all women) do not appreciate is the social change that will erupt when Vasalgel or one of the similar products/procedures is finally authorized by the FDA. For the uninformed, Vasalgel promises ten baby-free years for a man before it breaks down, and can be removed at any point to get a woman pregnant. It works without messing with your hormones by simply shredding the sperm in the vas deferens. It costs about $1000. One time.

    The social implications of this are clear: suddenly for the first time in history, a woman would have to seek a man’s permission to have a child with him. This small, subtle shift will have dramatic consequences, especially as we head into the Age of the Herbivore. When all of those egg-freezing women and their younger, more opportunistic sisters can no longer practice rampant reproductive coercion, then the social balance will shift again, and hard. Men who screw without the shredder are not to be trusted and are demonstrably irresponsible . . . but men with it are impervious to the traditional biological means of ensuring a commitment. Suddenly we are very much on an even playing field, and everything is back on the table. It will take the conscious will and permission of both parties to have a child, and men in that position will find themselves in a far more powerful spot than they have ever been in.

    Finding a suitable father for your kid is hard enough, from a female perspective. Finding one who also sees you as a worthy enough mother for his children to make the conscious decision to remove his birth control is going to be much, much harder. And the prospect of starting all over with a new man as her biological viability evaporates is going to be . . . problematic. We’ll see a much more intense emphasis on the Epiphany phase, and a multi-layered cultural panic as competition increases among women across the board.

    The cultural freakout will include more-of-the-same “where did all the good men go?” “manbaby” “dropout loser mother’s basement” frustrated criticism of men; which is why it’s important, from a cultural perspective, that there are men articulating our essential cultural position: marriage, as it stands, no longer serves our interests, and we will select only women of the highest quality to raise our children with – mindfully.

    It will be interesting to see how it evolves, but I predict this one little fact alone – independent of the other sexual distractions available to modern man, from internet porn to Tindr to prostitution to robotic sex dolls – will put modern feminism and womanhood in general into a crisis. I look forward to your next few parts.

  53. @ian, the implications of unilaterally male controlled birth control will be a feature of next week’s post in this series. I may quote you here though.

    In the meantime, Acksiom, you might reacquaint yourself with these classic posts:

    https://therationalmale.com/2011/12/21/fem-centrism/

    Sexual Revolution

    I got into a hypothetical debate with an online friend as to what it would mean to humanity (and masculinity in particular) if a new method of birth control was developed with the specific and unique ability to allow men to control conception to the same degree women were given with hormonal contraception in the mid-sixties. I thought it interesting that human effort could create reliable contraception for women in the 60’s, yet in 2011 we can map the human genome and yet not figure out how to afford men the same degree of birth control?

    Put simply, the feminine imperative will not allow this.

    Imagine the social and economic damage to the feminine infrastructure if Prometheus gave such fire to Men? Imagine that balance of control veering back into the masculine; for men to literally have the exclusive choice to fulfill a woman’s sexual strategy or not.

    The conversation got heated. Men could never be trusted with such a power! Surely humanity would come to a grinding, apocalyptic end if the feminine sexual strategy was thwarted by reliable male contraception. Societies would be sundered, populations would nosedive, and the nuclear family would be replaced with a neo-tribalism dictated by men’s sexual strategies. Honestly, you’d think the discovery of atomic weapons was on par with such an invention.

    The ridiculous, pathetic endemically juvenile and perverse masculinity that 50 years of feminization created could never be trusted to further humanity in pursuing their sex’s inborn imperatives.

    Yet, this is precisely the power that was put into the hands of women in the 1960’s and remains today. The threat that male contraception represents to the feminine imperative is one of controlling the framework of which gender’s sexual strategy will be the normative. Prior to the advent of female-exclusive hormonal birth control and the sexual revolution that resulted from it, the gender playing field was level, if not tipped in favor of masculinity due to men’s provisioning being a motivating factor in women achieving their own gender imperative. Latex prophylactics were available in the 40’s, and this may have afforded men a slight advantage, but both parties knew and agreed to the terms of their sexual activity at the time of copulation.

    Once feminine-exclusive birth control was convenient and available the locus of control switched to feminine primacy. Her imperative became the normalized imperative. His sexual imperative was only a means to achieving her own, and now the control was firmly placed in favor of feminine hypergamy. Whether in the developing world or in first world nations, the onus of directing the course of humanity fell upon women, and thus the feminine reality evolved into what it is today.

    https://therationalmale.com/2011/12/06/professional-mothers/

  54. Strange. I didn’t post a vid in my comment at 3:41.

    I don’t know where the ” Fuck Pride ” vid came from.

  55. @othergrain

    noted. In the past, I’ve already fucked up on that shit yareally talked about lol. so I am looking to learn how to do daygame better and tone down my natural style and translate it into something that will be direct and clear to the girl through text. taking your suggestions into account

    @yareally @scray @walawala

    quick question for yareally (and others) — if I get her on the phone, how should I start that conversation? lol, shes gonna be like who are you, what’s this about. Unsure of how to do that. Should I say I know her, or be like “yeah actually I just sent out a mass text to a bunch of people. honestly, I don’t quite remember you. Did we meet at a coffee shop, do we have mutual friends in common?” Just very unsure of how to actually START that out. The rest I think I can do

    Have old ass phone, so funny pics are right out. Think I am going to go with the mass text invite to party deal. The plan then is:

    *Send what looks like a mass text “Hey all. Party on the 22nd while everyone is in town. Text me if you can make it.” If meet for day2, just say party feel through
    *Make sure NEVER to txt ANYTHING that could possibly be misinterpreted. Stay nice & fun
    *Send text late, after 8 or 9pm
    *If girl sends text back, call her on voice right away
    *On voice #1 get her to A2 #2 qualify her #3 “You’re funny. Why did we never hang out. We should get drinks. What are you doing tonite?”

    Okay, next bit on new stuff for initial interactions in daygame

    2 new things to do — Do more of the “you’re stealing!” lethal weapon bit, and also the “what if” julien thing.

    For the “what if” I have more or less two categories. The first is more neutral. Its only lightly sexual. Things like “What if yo found out your bf was gay, what would you do?” “what if he was straight during the day and gay at night?” “Would you smack that girl for $10” “what about $100?” “How much would it take for you to kiss her?”

    Then there is stuff that is more extreme like “What if your bf asked you to stick your finger up his ass, would you do it?” “What if he said to use a dildo?” “What kind of dildo would you use?” “Would you still go out with your bf if he said he had to look at himself in the mirror to cum?”

    Point is, start out on the light easy stuff to see how she reacts and to get her familiar with how all this works. Then shift into the more sexual stuff. That way I can get into more explicit conversations faster and earlier than I have been.

    but I am already starting to work on “routines” for that: gay bf—>dildo in ass, kiss a girl for money—>lesbian sex. Start out on fairly light stuff, but escalate to be more intense. If things are going well, just keep escalating on that one thread (kiss girl to lesbian sex). If not, then jump to the first part of another thread (go from kissing girl to what if bf was gay). Then if she starts to play ball, I can jump back to my first thread, but at a higher part (kissing girl to gay bf to lesbian sex)

    I know the Julien 3 steps to brush past offending a girl: #1 step back #2 statement of empathy “Yeah that was a little crazy. I just like to speak what’s on my mind is all” #3 change subject

    Good to know since I am likely to miscalibrate the first few times I try this stuff.

    other stuff on that opener section of Pimp was solid. Reducing my reaction time is a big one –> if I see a girl, I need to just open her on “hi. my name is hank.” and shake hands. I’m better now, but I still will not approach some girls if I can’t think of what to say (usually since its early in the day). So just say hey if that happens to open her.

    calibrate AFTER the opener is a good tip. set frame is something I generally do but need to be more aware of. assume familiarity is one I can work on a bit more. making her react to ME is a good thing to always have in mind. pressure on pressure off is something I generally do, but can do better at having a rhythm of.

    And then there is Todd’s soft plans I need to remember for setting day2.

    And need to remember to stick in a false time constraint, especially for girls I meet out in the open walking. Be aware that there is going to be pushback each time there is a major change in location or place (inside to outside, walking along in mall to going into a store, non physical to physical interactions, etc.) so anticipate that and try to nix them with things like the false time constraint, but if they do come up to not have it take me by surprise — I should EXPECT pushback in those areas and be pleasantly surprised if I gamed her well enough that she doesn’t pushback at those areas.

    Can go out several times here in the next few days, so can practice all these things. Have them jotted down in the phone so I can consult them and gauge my progress between sets.

  56. @culum @yareally @forge @othergrain @habd @pua

    FR

    did a bit today, not much out there. very frustrating to not see girls I like, but I know they are out there if I keep going out. It just takes foreeeevvveeerr to find them.

    Got tired of the whole piercing girl stalker girl bit, so decided to go with drug dealer bit. No surprise, works much better now than it did 3 months ago. Now, partially I look more like a drug dealer (or at least, more like someone who USES drugs lol) but otherwise its just all in subcoms. So that was a neat little experiment I guess there — to use an opener a few times, wait several months, then come back to it and see the difference.

    Ran it on a worker. Responded well. Said I looked more like someone who uses drugs. Didn’t push since I didn’t like this girl. However, a great response to her saying I looked like someone who uses drugs is to tease her about that. “You’re saying I look like a drug dealer? That’s a little INSULTING. I don’t think your boss would like that much. I think I should tell her you are being VERY RUDE to customers. Nope Nope. you’re fired. lol”

    Did it on another girl, customer, 40s woman. Immediately got her invested, damn, probably minor A2. I said “I’ve got a question for you.” and she says “A question? For me?” and she had kind of that tone that the girls julien talks to — “OMG WHO ARE YOU” — that stuff. Not as extreme, but I noticed a similar vibe with this girl right off my opener. I was facing away from her, looking out to side. She was looking at me, slightly leaned in. So i did the drug dealer bit and she was like “Oh no, you don’t look like a drug dealer at all. People can be so ignorant.” I said it must have been my beard. “Were they white girls” she asks “yeah. I should have just gotten some basil and sold it to them lol” “yeah, they’d deserve that. I’m so soorry that happened to you!”

    And I was like, lol wtf. Why is that offensive. lol. Key thing was just noticing the MUCH bigger reaction I am getting from this routine than I got months ago.

    Bookstore, 2 blakc girls. They were looking for a place to pay. After they past, I thought to say “oh, you pay me. That’s 100 dollars please.” Decent. . .but doesn’t fucking matter since they were gone lol. So I needed to pay attention to my own notes, lol, and just open them as soon as I feel like opening. Don’t wait for it to be perfect, I can work on something as I talk anyway. So I could have done something like

    “Hey, what’s up. Find any cool books? (work off what she says — cold read, role play, tease, DHV, whatever). Okay. Well, you pay me for those. Yeah. Its $100.”

    So i gotta just open. If I want to open, for whatever reason, just open on “hi” if I can’t think of anything in that instant and work from there.

    Couple, possibly bf/gf but honestly don’t really know in hindsight. Need to work on approaching those sets. Just open them to chat. As I talk, I can figure out how their relationship is. Then just run the usual, jester the dude, tease the chick, DHV a bunch, then let the girl gradually win me over. If they aren’t together, dude will like me enough that he won’t care. . .he’ll probably WANT me to date her so we can hang out more. If they are together, well, just depends on the situ.

    Main thing though is just not to worry about getting the girl, just get used to approaching couples and socializing off it while being aware of IOIs and where I can escalate. Once I get used to this, THEN I can do more serious game. But I need to get over my reaction of “oh, dude, abort abort.” I’m getting more and more IOIs from girls now, and some of them are from girls with their bfs, so i need to learn how to work off that.

    No numbers today, but still learned a lot and where I need to focus on for next time out. Not bad for just an hour or so I had out. Gonna do a bit more later, so might have more to report then.

  57. @Ianironwood

    I like your optimism. I also agree that realistic male birth control of that order will be disruptive – and anything disruptive to the current order is a plus from where I sit.

    Where I see male BC being most disruptive is not in the actual act of conception, aka the power plays around family planning, but rather in the interplay of the covert that happens prior to such decisions even coming into play.

    As it is, a woman’s fertility – or purposeful lack of, is covert. But a man is sending live rounds down range regardless of intent to procreate. Once he hits his vinegar strokes, she holds all the cards.

    In this regard covert male BC will indeed afford men greater protection than the overt methods like condoms. But most of the protection will be from themselves. Condoms are really quite effective “when used correctly”. Which really means not left in the night stand.

    Further, the very legal definition of life is predicated upon Female intent, at least for some period of time deemed reasonable. I don’t see male BC changing any of this; it won’t level the playing field.

    We already have genetic testing that can determine paternity, yet the playing field regularly marginalises or outright dismisses such things from being used to solve for actual equality in such matters.

    We already see the wheels of the FI turning against sex dolls and AI in the same way. Though I agree that eventually the tables will tip and collectively these measures will make for substantial changes, I remain suspect, however, whether those changes will really be better for men in the end.

    Though its a question of relativity. Pounding away on a VR real doll is better than getting shut out of the market, but how many men pounding away on the doll does it take before it eats into the pool of provider men to the point where the culture encourages women to willingly cede power, to change their behaviors?

    Yes, the ability to move male fertility into the covert – even the possibility of a kind of herd immunity principle, i.e. she can never really know which men have been fixed, will start to neutralise the threatpoint of non-consensual paternity, but will this actually undermine the pillars of the FI such that her sexual strategy is called in?

    And if the FI has demonstrated anything it is that it will create (and enforce) an entirely new alternate reality before it cedes ground.

    So I think the premise that equalising this non-consensual paternity threat or leveling the relationship table around family planning will send shock waves disrupting the power much beyond that is a bit overdrawn.

    She still holds the power to grant sexual access. She still holds the power to exercise her options based on the primacy of her sexual strategy – which will still be upheld by the culture at-large. And in a culture where AF/BB and open hypergamy is the norm, most women’s desire to get pregnant flows well into the right side of that hash.

    She will still be free to pursue her AF/BB with abandon. In fact, if she knows she is even less likely to get pregnant when she doesn’t want to, might she be even more likely to work the AF, to roll with the badboy shootin blanks that she would have otherwise put the brakes on?

    The difference will be that with the “oops” option off the table, trapping the alpha seed will be less likely. But how many of those guys are actually “marriage material” to begin with? Meanwhile her beta bux suitor will have more say in the timing of things, but let’s not forget that even though he knows he’s not having a baby until HE is ready, he’s still internalized to that role – he is still offering commitment and then husbandry after she has had her fun. Shooting blanks does not empower him in the same way that a temporarily barren womb empowers her. Or maybe I’m missing something.

    By the time the “power” of negotiating over having kids happens, he is already pretty far into fulfilling her strategy. He’s just telling her she has to wait for her dessert. Or maybe he can negotiate for his mancave up front, IDK. I want my tenuous and protracted opinion/theory to be wrong.

    $1,000 sounds like a pretty good deal. Let the great carousel spin.

  58. @Blax

    The notion of “Pride” as put forth by you is one of the principle manifestations of Male idealism. So no.

    But in 2016, in the “civilized” world, we need to see where it fits in. Because it DOES. There’s a plug-in for it.

  59. @blax “Is the notion of a man ” going down swinging ” or ” not going down without a fight ” an antiquated, dead notion?”

    Yes. Yes it is. I’m a loyal citizen and always do what I’m told. Red pill means shut the fuck up, work on approved forms of self-improvement, mule yourself out to hot, pre-wall women, keep your nose out of the affairs of your betters, and answer the door when the soylent-bot comes.

    In the last thread I saw someone say something about figuring out a way to get the girl “to keep the guy around”. Frame already lost (hint: if there’s any keeping to be done, YOU keep HER around). is this a male-female frame battle? Maybe not, maybe its a society-man frame battle.

    Deprogramming these things takes a long time, and some frames can only be developed over time. Notice how much our society encourages increasing levels of age, sex, and race segregation in the face of technology which acts to mix us all together. Information can be shared, but frame sharing? Apparently not (google delete squads, and the internet “hate speech” laws that are starting to get passed in various countries).

    Also, the tendency with some people here to get really, really spun up when someone, usually a Crusty Old Fossil Rocker ™, just won’t align every one of his line items with the “consensus” that the young bloods are trying to build. Much shaming and cajoling ensues. Why cant a guy disagree on one point without having to be run through his paces? Do you even know who’s work you are ultimately doing?

    Frames within frames within frames. ABF, always be framing.

  60. This series will be good…

    As expected the FI, it’s white knights, it’s daughter’s will do everything within their power to negate the inexorable effects of time & nature….
    Plus the slow, but real trend of men beginning to realise the value of having, and, living by, their own MPO (mental point of origin).

    Dealing with women now is basically smacking down their gross omnipresent entitlement….from now I really can’t see how men, and our future sons, can live without enlightened self interest, strong frame, and a strong MPO.

    “Both technology and social reengineering have placed women into a position where their hindbrains cannot hope to interpret the experiences they afford, much less have the attention span necessary for the insight to process how they should best cope with changes they’re scarcely aware of or take for granted.”

    Well said….

    I think I saw another article on the same, that is, women having babies without need for sperm or saving ovaries…no thought is even spared to whether their suitable or compatible to make needs & wants, and, most importantly, whether they have what (what men think)

  61. @ Rollo

    ..ummm, not sure if I should say thanks. Lol.

    But being a fan of Pulp Fiction, and knowing how Bruce’s character handled that speech, I’ll say ” thanks ‘.

  62. *sorry pressed send before I finished…😒

    Whether they have (what men think are) the prerequisites to be a good mother.

    Women think having children is equivalent to the ability to raise children….😧

  63. @Via Vitae

    I’m actually reading through this thing called “Endgame” by a guy from a website called the Attraction Institute and I think that while it’s sold as a book on PUA hate, it’s actually a guide for how to de-condition yourself socially.

  64. Thanks for the responses so far.

    C’mon gents. Pipe up. Go down fighting or nah.

    @ Via Vitae

    * taking a deep, long inhale *

    Ahhh. You are a breath of fresh air.

  65. @Yollo: Yeah. I agree…just can’t remember where I saw the article…
    Global white-knighthood is always trying to help further hypergamous optimization….
    Remember whether it works or not in the end may not matter as much as the fact that they want to ‘believe’ it does…

    As Razor and others have mentioned, fertility bubble….

  66. “Is the notion of a man ” going down swinging ” or ” not going down without a fight ” an antiquated, dead notion?’

    I may be cheap,but it won’t be free,you will know I was there.

  67. Even if everything goes ‘according to plan’, consider being a mother at age 45. By the time you child is looking to college, you are looking to retirement. Does that sound like a good idea? No.

    Schopenhauer was completely correct. This multi-generational experiment of women pretending to be men has been an abject failure. The birth rates alone foretell the future.

    Um…enjoy the..er…decline. Hopefully it will be a gentle, gradual decline. Just in case….you may want to take up a hobby in firearms.

  68. All of the egg freezing, ovary manufacturing craziness only serves to highlight the insanity of women’s/FI strategy.

    Unfortunately, ” they ” will attempt to hold men’s heads underwater until capitulation has been reached.

    This time though, they may have jumped the proverbial shark.

    But I might just look into investing in sperm banks for future growth.

    We have a saying in IT that technology does not involve ” thumbs “. All of this pseudo tech will eventually fry women’s hindbrains. They will burn out.

    If we are lucky, maybe stoves will replace smart-phones.

    Fads have been known to be cyclical in nature. I’m not so sure that this time the standard will hold true. But it might. It will take a long while, but it just might.

    But I’m still calling my broker Friday.

  69. @ stuff

    ” I may be cheap,but it won’t be free,you will know I was there.”

    oh man do I cosign.

    Once I was chased home by 3 guys when I was about 12 or so. I kissed this dudes girlfriend at a party. Kissed her hard and long.

    The guy grabbed 2 friends and chased my as 10 blocks. I was fast as a cheetah, and reached my door ahead of them.

    My uncle June met me at the door.He wouldn’t let me inside.

    ” Are you RUNNING from someone?” Yes!!! Let me in!!!!

    ” You don’t run from guys.”

    But there’s 3 of them I complained.

    ” Weeellll….you might be going to the hospital then. Tell you what, pick one of them and kick the shit out of him. At least make sure ONE of them is in the hospital bed next to yours “.

  70. @stuffin

    “I may be cheap,but it won’t be free,you will know I was there.”

    I think what the rich 10 percent who date contextual unicorns and sell alcohol for a living are getting at is that such a mentality is the domain of the 90% chaff.

    If you’re fighting so others know “you were there”, you’re already without options. The opponent in that scenario is leagues above that.

  71. @Blax

    ” Weeellll….you might be going to the hospital then. Tell you what, pick one of them and kick the shit out of him. At least make sure ONE of them is in the hospital bed next to yours “.

    See stuffin? THIS is what I’m talking about. Like a good little soldier. You could argue that Uncle June was teaching Blax about consequences.

    However, I doubt Rollo would see it that way.

  72. @ Yollo

    ” No offence to you.”

    Lol. None taken bro.

    I get that ” fighting ” is looked down upon in 2016 culture. ZFG. It’s too late to save meeee…..

    What Uncle June was teaching me was not to be afraid. I was scared shitless, but in the end I made out okay, considering the numbers.

    I believe all men should be capable of defending themselves. I will NEVER concede this. If your world consists of all ” really nice folks ” who eschew violence, that is all well and good until you tangle with someone who doesn’t believe as you do, and who’d love to stomp a mudhole in your ass.

    I believe it is those individuals that should learn about consequences.

  73. @Razorwire:

    While you may be correct, don’t forget the importance of consensus reality for women. If a few of them are suddenly terrified that they will never become wives and mothers, that fear spreads out of all proportions.

    Don’t forget that when The Pill was made available in the 1960s, it was originally touted as a “family planning measure”, allowing married couples to have sex without fear of unplanned pregnancy. That lasted all of five minutes, as the film “Prudence And The Pill” demonstrates.

    Vasalgel could have a similar unanticipated effect. Despite the protests from the radical feminists, however, demand for the procedure is too strong to ignore, and the FDA can’t really kill it for health reasons or lack of efficacy. And the cheap price for the procedure, and lack of side-effects, is going to make it very popular when approved.

    And that’s when the stampede starts, and the FI realizes that its really under threat. We’ll see all the typical stages: outrage, attempts to reason, shaming, denial, anger, self-pity, and eventually acceptance of the new reality: any man worth marrying has had the procedure, and having a kid with a guy not smart or rich enough to afford it will have social consequences.

    Will this be enough to get women to change their behavior? Only when it reaches a critical mass, unfortunately. But the legalization of gay marriage and normalization of gay male culture has cut off one important avenue. the availability of foreign brides, and the growing disinterest of men in a marital commitment in the upper classes especially will have an effect.

    But unless someone is there to articulate the issue properly, we’ll just get blamed for being inadequate again. Until we raise the bar on what it takes to get a man to commit, women won’t bother with changing their behavior. Only when women understand that the old set of books doesn’t apply to us anymore the same way, and that we’re using a new set of books, there won’t be a social resolution to the problem of post-industrial culture.

    But yes, I am hopeful: hopeful that the needs of the FI outweigh the transitory feeling of empowerment provided by feminism. Only when that happens will we see a more reasonable approach. But it won’t happen in a vaccuum.

    Currently, women are enjoying a surge in economic opportunity and growth due to the growth of the service sector and the shrinking of the manufacturing sector. Add in their penetration into the professional class, and they have their current dominant position spelled out for them.

    But nothing lasts forever – just as service station attendants and telephone exchange operators. Just as the manufacturing base that provided the impetus for the middle class and the nuclear family of the infamous 1950s, the service sector (including scads of pink-collar jobs) allow women a reasonable wage for reasonably safe work. That allows women to (usually with government assistance) eschew marriage and “be strong and independent”.

    But what happens when the majority of those service jobs are suddenly done by competent and sophisticated AIs? When those AIs are sophisticated enough to talk to each other, a whole block of the service sector will suddenly evaporate. Competition for the remaining jobs will increase . . . and virtually all hope of raising a child on her own anywhere but abject poverty is gone.

    At the same time, I predict (we’re looking at about 2020-2025, just as the Millennials are hitting their Epiphany phase) there will be a resurgence in masculine-oriented crafts and enterprises as the CAD/CAM/3D printing revolution hits its full stride. When a small shop of three dudes can turn out custom specialty work at a premium price, and be limited only by their imaginations, I think we’ll see a kind of renaissance in masculine cottage industries, many of which will evolve into larger enterprises. I’m already seeing that in my community, from micro distilleries to custom 3D printed motorcycle parts to a dude who grows his own yeast for beer and sells it. Men are also less reliant, in general, purely on wages for their upkeep. They tend to take greater entrepreneurial risks and are more willing to fail at business than women.

    It won’t be as universal as the industrialization of the US during and after WWII, of course, but as the tools grow in sophistication, so will the entrepreneurship. And this is a sector that most women don’t feel comfortable considering. Even without it, men will still do better financially than women because of lower expenses and higher rate of savings.

    With that kind of economic re-positioning I think we’ll see a lot of social upheaval even before the AI Crash. Add in the sudden control of male fertility into the equation, and things could get real, real interesting.

  74. “The guy grabbed 2 friends and chased my as 10 blocks. I was fast as a cheetah, and reached my door ahead of them.

    My uncle June met me at the door.He wouldn’t let me inside.”

    Four years of parocial school,programed me to turn the other cheek.I could out run em to.Choose your battles,right?

    Two guys ran me down on a motorbike,,got a good bloody nose,never again did I turn the other cheek when things get physical it is time to takala.

    Eventualy I learned to turn the other cheek before things got physical.

    OP Yes this late life parenting is crazy,peoples priorities are whacked.
    I think they may figure out how to breastfeed till the kid turns twenty two.
    That would be a real feat to keep the milk in them titties till she’s 70.

  75. @Blax

    As a martial artist myself, I agree, all people should know how to fight.

    But they should teach you why we fight. So nobody gets the idea that fighters ever go obsolete.

    My fights have mostly been mental ones. I had lots of bullies growing up, but the ones who did the most damage were the ones who had game principles and could out-think me.

    But thinking and fighting are one and the same. You fight to live and think to live.

  76. @Yollo

    “See stuffin? THIS is what I’m talking about. Like a good little soldier. You could argue that Uncle June was teaching Blax about consequences.

    However, I doubt Rollo would see it that way.”

    I wouldn”t say this is about consequences so much as facing your problems head on,or dealing with fear,instead of running away.

    Once a person makes a habit of running,his neck gets sore from looking over his shoulder.Even a small guy won’t get fucked with if people realize that he will fight back..

    Can’t speak for Rollo,myself but I would bet people don’t chase him around,and not because they are tired of it.

    This is his blog,It doesn’t mean I have to agree with him,and if he doesn’t agree with me he will say so when it is worth it.

  77. @ stuff

    ” June ” was short for Junior ( like in the Sopranos ). He was James on his birth certificate, named after his father.

    Uncle June was 6’6″, and went ( I’d guess ) around 230 lbs.

    I used to tell him that I couldn’t wait to grow up big and strong so no one would mess with me. He ALWAYS said ” No one will mess with you now, if you don’t let them “.

    I never did grow up big like him at 6 ft even. I am mostly the ” runt ” of the males in my family. But the curious thing is that I never gave a fuck about how huge a guy was, because of being the squirt among giants growing up.

  78. “An interesting question to pose to the women might be: “how old will this wonderful hands-on dad be”?”

    Reminds me of the guy that never got married,he was looking for the perfect woman..He thought he may have found her once,but it turned out she was looking for the perfect man.

  79. @Blaximus
    “C’mon gents. Pipe up. Go down fighting or nah.”

    Since you asked lol:

    Give us a reason/benefit to it.

    Not being flippant. We grew up being told what to do by the FI without asking questions. We acted like Nice Guys and it got us fuck all. We stood up for ourselves and got punished for it. We married and got divorce-raped. We trusted our government and got fucked. We trusted the media and are learning it’s as corrupt as can be. We put our heads down and did our work like good little employees and got fired or laid off instead of having careers for life. We tried to be good fathers and ended up with little “man-caves” in the garage if our wives allowed it, and found out our kids weren’t even ours. We tried to be good boyfriends like society told us to and we got cheated on and dumped. We worked shit jobs to provide for a family and instead of being the respected man of the household we ended up the Ray Romano in a deadbedroom. We watched guys get into fights over girls and end up dead. We watched guys get into fights over girls and then the girls dump them or go off with the other guys. We watched firefighters bust their ass to run into the towers on 9/11 and go through hell and now every youtube video about it is full of memes and jokes zero fucks given. We watch guys working construction and running IT and hauling garbage and doing and keeping society functioning every single day doing the right thing, and no one gives a shit about them…other men spit on them and women disregard them as wastes of space because they aren’t the rich CEO asshole (who’s NOT following the rules) etc etc

    If we didn’t do those things directly ourselves, we have friends, brothers, uncles, fathers, anecdotes, forums, etc where we see those stories second-hand.

    And we watched you previous generations do what you’re told without asking questions. We see how old veterans are treated, we learned in history class how much of a shitshow the Vietnam war was and how many guys just did what they were told and were “real men” and died, then came back and were spit on by society. We watched you guys do all sorts of shit because you were “supposed to” and get fucked over for it, for the sake of “being a man”.

    We’re watching guys marry single moms beacuse it’s “the right thing to do”, we’re watching guys marry shitty girls that they SHOULD leave and KNOW are shit but they’re following society’s script to “man up”. We’re watching men not ask for paternity tests or sign pre-nups because it’s “the right thing to do” and a “real man” wouldn’t do that shit. We’re watching men avoid the red pill and take up feminism because they’re chasing the approval of society that they’re “real men”. We’re watching men follow the script of what everyone tells them “being a man” is and the vast majority of the time it ends up being code for “self-sacrifice and take risks for no real reward except your “betters” will pat you on the back and give you their approval, as if that’s actually worth anything.”

    So ya, we’re perfectly happy to bust our ass and stand up for shit and get into a fight and go down fighting.

    …but you better give us a reason to that holds up better than “because I said so…you don’t want people to think you’re some pussy instead of a REAL man, do you?” ’cause that’s the exact same shaming and lack of reason/benefit that the FI has used on us our entire life to get us to a point where we seek out a site like Rollo’s.

    We didn’t shake off the shackles of society’s shaming only to trade them in for new shackles from other Red Pill men. If you have a reason for us to self-sacrifice, then we’re open to hearing it. But shaming us with the FI-conditioned notion of “being a REAL man” isn’t good enough anymore.

    http://nypost.com/2010/04/24/stabbed-hero-dies-as-more-than-20-people-stroll-past-him/

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