In 2015 women were offered workplace benefits that would allow them to freeze their eggs in order to grant them a promise of a future family irrespective of the personal or career choices they make in life. Granted, this benefit is only reserved for higher up positions in select tech firms that can afford to make a showing of concern for women’s professional and family aspirations (as a PR effort), but the message of even having an option to reserve giving birth at a later phase in life is clear:
Women want an assurance of Hypergamous optimization.
Whether it’s on the personal scale of socially engineering generations of men to accommodate this, or on the larger, more direct scale of legislating those assurances into common law, the underlying imperative is making that optimization as certain as possible for the largest number of women.
It’s important to remember that Hypergamy is rooted in doubt; doubt that any one man might serve to optimally satisfy the dual nature of women’s sexual strategy – optimal sexual agency for optimal genetic selection, and then optimal provisioning for optimal parental investment in offspring – Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks. This doubt of optimization defines the subconscious hindbrain experience for women throughout all phases of their lives.
I covered these phases in Preventive Medicine the book, but to keep things brief, it’s a necessary review when we consider how this doubt extrapolates from the biological level, to the neurological level, on to the personal experiential level, to the interpersonal/intersexual, and on to the great societal and political level. Ensuring Hypergamy is optimized for a majority of women, irrespective of their own suitability for a majority of men, (and at the complete abdication of men’s sexual strategies) is at the root of all feminine empowerment, all socialization of feminine primacy, all cultural efforts to normalize it, and all legislation determined to enforce it.
The latent purpose of developing technology to freeze a woman’s eggs, for instance, is to cheat (or give the impression of being able to cheat) the otherwise naturalistic process of fertility that women are beholden to.
The latent purpose of every pop-cultural trend that contributes to the perception that women can realistically exceed the window of their fertility is offered as an assurance that women have more time than would be naturalistically expected to optimize Hypergamy.
Ostensibly the message for women is the cliché of ‘having it all’ – reassuring women that they can have a rewarding career and make a significant difference in their lives and the lives of others as well as realistically having a meaningful family experience later in life. The unspoken hindbrain message is that a woman has more time to optimize Hypergamy.
If this doubt ensuring requires men’s sacrifices or special dispensations in order to accommodate women’s naturalistic realities or individual deficiencies, those requirements are simply means to an end.
Furthermore, the Feminine Imperative makes exhaustive effort in social, personal and political spheres to assure women that even when their Hypergamous choices prove debilitating or damaging that they have the prerogative to reset their chances at optimization proactively or retroactively.
Whether this is realistic or not is irrelevant to the messaging. This messaging is couched in the social expectation that men are required to afford women this forgiveness of past indiscretions (single motherhood, Alpha Widows, etc.), but again, the purpose of this reset is to provide women with the maximum amount of leeway in consolidating on an optimized Hypergamy.
In Nursing Power I outlined the power dynamic behind women’s drive to maintain the primacy of a feminine defined social order, but it’s too easy to simply think that women’s ultimate end of attaining power is for the sake of power alone. That want for power is driven by the obsessive hindbrain need to quell the doubt that Hypergamy instills in women. All we need do is look at the societal changes women will push to legislate for once they have even marginal degrees of power.
Margins of Power
Serendipitously commenter Not Born This Morning took me to task on this idea in the last comment thread:
@ Rollo – “The new, post-sexual revolution order is a model ostensibly based on ‘sexual freedom’, but what this really represents is a return to that naturalistic sexual order based on pre-agrarian, evolutionarily incentivized hypergamy.”
This is not true.
The naturalistic sexual social order of pre-agrarian human existence expressed BOTH genders natural sexuality without preference of one over the other or the perversion of both that we see today. Today’s laws and social conventions prevent men from returning to THEIR natural sexuality. We are not returning to the naturalistic sexual social order and there is no indication that we will any time soon.
Many of todays “betas” are restrained “alphas”. Law and social convention restrains them.
As a point of order here, I wasn’t suggesting that ‘societally’ western culture is returning to anything like a pre-agrarian sexual paradigm, but rather that pre-agrarian evolved paradigm of Hypergamy is informing the social narrative. Both pre and post agrarian, Hypergamy still influenced and determined our socio-sexual direction – men performed, women chose.
It is not idealism, intellectualism, mental masturbation or “cultural changes” that determine human behavior. We like to pretend that emotional idealism steers history but it never has and never will. We think women are “liberated” by laws and social conventions but they are not. The laws and social conventions that we think make it possible for women to “enjoy” new “freedom” are not the cause, they are only ideals and “paradigms” that result from the real cause.
These laws and social conventions are only thoughts, documents and behavioral practices that confirm what has already happened and been accepted. Women have been liberated from responsibilities and hardships they faced prior to agriculture.
Technology and industrialization were the real enablers of female “liberation” and “freedom”. Today, because of technology, we are relatively safe from predators, famine, disease, and tribes of other humans, etc. We are intellectually advanced (maybe) but definitely physically and mentally weaker. Today’s human female does not need the superior strength, tenacity, strategic intelligence and initiative possessed by surviving males in pre-agrarian tribal groups. Back then, she and her children could not have survived without it him. Today we breed mostly wanna be hyenas and betas and they are voting accordingly.
While we may have a greater mastery over our environment and women may not need strength, tenacity, etc. women’s sexual nature is still informed by an evolved Hypergamy that responds to, and is aroused by, these cues in men.
However, NBTM has a point. Perhaps I should revise that idea, but I will say that post-Sex Rev, the paradigm has favored women’s sexual strategy as the one to define our predominant social order (i.e. unfettered Hypergamy).
Given that freedom and preferential deference to women’s imperatives in a social context, women use both to optimize on a Hypergamy that evolved from pre-agrarian physical and social environments.
Thus, with all the Beta security/provisioning aspects of Hypergamy being met by men (either directly or indirectly) the Alpha sexuality/breeding aspect of Hypergamy is the only thing not directly or immediately available to women without their own qualification for it.
And even this is progressively being accounted for both socially and legislatively with regard to sexual consent law ambiguities, ubiquitous abortion, divorce concessions and curbing every trivial expression of male sexuality from men not ‘worthy’ of expressing it. In fact virtually every socially mandated convention that limits men’s sexual expression or his most marginal want of qualification in women is really an effort in forcing men to comply with women’s need for optimizing Hypergamy.
That’s an important footnote in a social order that’s primarily focused on women’s Hypergamy as the predominant one, and then one that is primarily focused on men’s Alpha side sexual suitability. Beta provisioning needs being relatively assured, women demand satisfaction, qualified and verified satisfaction, of men’s suitability in an Alpha breeding context.
You’ll have to forgive me for using this video of Gronk (the first has been making the rounds on Twitter), but his nature, attitude and behavior are illustrative of a Hypergamous social order that forgives the excesses of a confirmed Alpha.
I stated in a prior essay that women will break rules for Alphas, but create and impose more rules on Betas while expecting compliance from them. This can be extended to the greater whole of a society based on the Feminine Imperative; feminine social mores forgive the Alpha while punishing the impotent Beta for daring to qualify himself as an Alpha.
One reason women despise the undeniable efficacy of Game is because it devises to bypass women’s innate, evolved filters for determining men’s Alpha suitability. Game depends on triggering women’s emotional states, bad or good, so in addition to intentionally working around her filters, Game also creates an emotional impact.
Bypassing women’s filters, and misrepresenting (or impersonating) a genuine Alpha article is a capitol offense to Hypergamous doubt. So it should come as no surprise that the most egregious laws and social mandates with regards to men’s “appropriate” sexual conduct center on women’s qualifying men and verifying his value to her optimization.
Example: Assemblyman Troy Singleton wants to introduce a bill that would make misrepresenting oneself as a means to sex to be equatable to rape-by-fraud:.
And thus we come to NBTM’s assertion that,…
Today’s laws and social conventions prevent men from returning to THEIR natural sexuality. We are not returning to the naturalistic sexual social order and there is no indication that we will any time soon.
Through cultural, religious or physical means Hypergamy has always had contingencies to keep it in check. These contingencies (rape included unfortunately) are all efforts for men’s assurances of paternity and fidelity in a long term mate, and ultimately (hopefully) constitute men’s exercising an influence on the direction of his culture and species.
From Martie Hasslton on Sexual Pluralism and Mating Strategies:
According to strategic pluralism theory (Gangestad & Simpson, 2000), men have evolved to pursue reproductive strategies that are contingent on their value on the mating market. More attractive men accrue reproductive benefits from spending more time seeking multiple mating partners and relatively less time investing in offspring. In contrast, the reproductive effort of less attractive men, who do not have the same mating opportunities, is better allocated to investing heavily in their mates and offspring and spending relatively less time seeking additional mates.
I’ve emphasized the last bit here because it’s important to consider that the reproductive efforts of lower SMV men necessitate the institution of social structures that also (potentially) ensure his narrowly invested efforts in fewer (or one) mate and his offspring. That man cannot afford to be caught on the losing end of polyandry or cuckoldry. Thus the 80% of men with the most investment and most to lose in the conflict of women’s sexual strategy (Hypergamy) establish social conventions to develop assurances of their own.
Those social structures, religions doctrines and various cultural norms are contingent insurances against the results of a society based on unfettered Hypergamy. In essence those structures were established as buffers against the lack of influence men would have in a society that unilaterally empowers women’s Hypergamy and removes any decision making influence.
[…] Assurances […]
[…] Assurances […]
“Those social structures, religions doctrines and various cultural norms are contingent insurances against the results of a society based on unfettered Hypergamy.”
Rollo what are some ways to calm myself down knowing this creats anger and frustration by witnessing it?
…..then the guys who know game need to punish the ones that don’t.
So. What about geek culture? Most of the necessitous Betas are technology makers, out-providers/out-forgivers and Story-tellers with a side order of being into geeky shit. But NONE of them want to share a bitch. Least not MY generation.
Will that be the subject of your next article?
FYI that New Jersey bill has gone nowhere and that’s that. Even if somehow it were passed Chris Christie would pocket veto it by ignoring it (he does that a lot). But the point remains: it was touted as some kind of good idea, and some other place might try to make a go of it. Though it does reek of a reverse kind of “alienation of affection” fraud tort that you sometimes saw in rich folk mating rituals. The trend to watch for is any attempt to expand “yes means yes” beyond colleges and high schools to private conduct… Read more »
“:This messaging is couched in the social expectation that men are required to afford women this forgiveness of past indiscretions (single motherhood, Alpha Widows, etc.), but again, the purpose of this reset is to provide women with the maximum amount of leeway in consolidating on an optimized Hypergamy.” I’m am always surprised by women, when they learn that men don’t want Alpha Widows or single mothers for wifes. They think true love will trump all. My wife asked me if I would have married her if she had a child from another man. I flat out told her, no way… Read more »
Patriots till death
@Rollo This submission starts out condemning those tech firms for spreading a message. I think the message which you’re arguing for, the message that “Women want an assurance of Hypergamous optimization,” is simply a byproduct of the issue: That those companies don’t want to be hurt by hiring women and want to make their company seem attractive to women. This obviously isn’t a social stance. At least, not on the magnitude that it’s a profitable decision stance. I’m not arguing that this byproduct isn’t exactly what you say it is (a way to make certain women happy about potentially optimizing… Read more »
I fully expect someday they will sue men for not fucking the women.
@Yhufir when all the rules are stacked against you, the only way to win is not to play (MGTOW, for example).
I don’t have a problem with women freezing their eggs. If they want to increase their childbearing years so they can run with the boys at work because they are afraid that pregnancy will set them back, then fine, let them work for you. I guess my take on this is that it is not just about hypergamy, women’s career ambitions are part of this as well.. While Rollo’s ideas are incredibly informative in understanding women’s behavior, I think the hypergamy is overstated. It is a conceit to think that women are entirely motivated by the desire to find a… Read more »
Were pre-agrarian (hunter-gatherer) societies really a hypergamous free-for-all? In many Australian aborigine societies for example teenage girls were often given in arranged marriages to mature (30s) men, with the penalties for pre-marital sex being harsh. I’ll have to look into this some more, but I think every human society has restricted both female hypergamous urges and alpha male polygamous urges.
This may be obvious but the ability to conceive at a later age has always been a privilege granted to men alone. If it is possible to grant this privilege to women, then I see no good reason to deny it. There are many other privileges that women have that are denied to men, and this is where our attention should be focused.
Maybe there’s an upside to the new paradigm;
More women doing the work
More single Mommas means less male investment
Egg freezers will pay their own way
More free time for men
Less beta bucks
Less dead bedrooms
Less hen pecked men
What’s there not to like?
Interesting post, except the nubmers are wrong since it doesn’t take into account the numerical superiority of male users on Tinder. I guess Ya was right, it indicates a 90/10 ratio.
@Bjorn: “As a result of my insistence . . . I had an . . . divorce . . .” “Men would be better off by insisting that their partners share the financial burden of supporting a family.” Two cars, two work wardrobes, everybody eating crappier yet more expensive food, child care expenses . . .” It is perfectly possible for a wife to work and increase the financial burden of supporting a family and a penny saved is a penny earned. If you go all Sweden on the issue you might find yourself paying for child care so that… Read more »
Freeze your eggs and put off babies until you’re ready!!! It all sounds good — until you consider the shockingly low success rates of invitro. Even in the 20s, odds are against success, by age 40 the odds are around 2%. I bet these companies aren’t talking about those inconvienent “factoids.” And of course women want to believe they can have it all, on demand, even if that’s nowhere close to true.
A better plan: have babies in the 20s, start your education/career after the nest is empty!
Hey, it’s all about what women deserve.
But once the eggs are frozen, how are they going to incentivize getting the sperm? The eggs may be frozen (may not be viable) but the women will still be older, looking for a man who finds her experiences stimulating.
Is there going to be a marketing campaign toward men of financial success to freeze their sperm?
“Is there going to be a marketing campaign toward men of financial success to freeze their sperm?”
No. It will be:
1. a)Free of congenital defects. b)Height; see 1a.
It will be taken as an axiom that this will produce offspring who produce financial success.
Let’s get to the end game. Aside from Islam what’s the way to flip the script so men get to stop being dancing monkey for the females and the selectors become the selected.
These “Assurances” wont deliver. Just as if we men ALL learnt game,lifted and upped our SMV, hypergamy would still ensure female mate selection preferences for the top 20% of all these newly improved men. Pushing the timeline out further by Freezing eggs won’t allow females to better optimize their hypergameous imperitive. Do these females really believe they just “need more a little more time” to find and lock down that alpha? Are they really so fucking deluded? It’s called an appraisal if you havn’t managed to do it by 35 or younger you aint going to! To quote Rollo “The… Read more »
A small point: In the third paragraph you refer to legislating [Hypergamous optimization] into common law. I stand to be corrected by any American qualified lawyer, but otherwise would like to pojnt out that common law (The Common Law) is not legislated but is derived from Judicial decisions. The use of the word ‘common’ can in my respectful submission be lost from the sentence.
Regarding freezing eggs, I also want to note that it seems many (if not most) women aren’t aware nor actively made aware that their chance of being infertile is already rather high “even” in their mid 30s:
You are correct, but in this war note that they make use of common law (often referred to as legislating from the bench) when it suits them, and black letter code, when it suits them.
I was much taken by the second of the above videos. Three paragraphs thereunder Rollo refers to efficacy of Game. Rollo may be right but ask yourself, if you will, how much Game Gronkowski uses. To analyse the seven second clip, he is asked by this young woman a foot shorter than he what he will be doing on 14th February. He is somewhat non-plussed by the question ‘Wo, wo’ – rocks back slightly and then recovering asks what she is doing on that day. Now imagine that instead of being a two hundred pound hunk he were a one… Read more »
A better plan: have babies in the 20s, start your education/career after the nest is empty!
It’s a better plan indeed…for girls who can find
a) faithful, well-paid husbands willing to finance their SAHM lifestyle for 5-10 years
b) employers willing to hire women with high school diplomas, no work experience and a bunch of small children.
Yeah, piece of cake.
“It is perfectly possible for a wife to work and increase the financial burden of supporting a family and a penny saved is a penny earned.” Yep. I’ve seen it many many times…when indirect expenses are factored in I’d say it’s the case more often than not. When our first was born, I “shopped” at garage sales and was able to feed our small family on very little. We did save the first few years of marriage when I was working, that helped. But I married very young. Bloom mentions the odds above and she’s right. But there’s also the… Read more »
I will say this, I’m glad I had the fulltime working mom experience because it gave me a lot of perspective and experience. I was even able to support the family when my husband had a career change so we didn’t have to tap into our savings and that was nice. It was really difficult and an awful experience from the kids’ perspective though (every situation is unique, but this was ours…it was kind of like being a single working mom sans child support for about a year, tough times but we made it). From Mike’s perspective, having a SAHM… Read more »
@Rollo The part about how men are expected to forgive women for their past indiscretions was some strong shit. I love it when Dalrock breaks those social conventions down. I’ve seen it first hand where women have out of this world expectations and single mothers are the worst. The White Knight mentality is alive and well, because I personally feel weak men(who can’t pull a girl) facilitate this all the time. I find weak men as much or even more of a problem. Your politician example is the perfect example. I’m like,”Dude, quit being a suck up bitch to women!”… Read more »
Mark 10:28-31 KJV “Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee. And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel’s, But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life. But many that are first shall be last; and the last first.”… Read more »
Older women tend to have kids with genetic and developmental problems. Congenital defects. Birth defects. Freezing eggs doesn’t eliminate the problems associated with older pregnancies. The uterus tends to be more scarred, there are more problems with her blood, her physiology has aged, her cellular mitochondria have more defects, etc.
The issues have to do with fecundity as well as fertility.
@Yhufir Those same companies you speak of have an extraordinary grasp of data and how to crunch it, a monkey could crunch the numbers on IVF and see that its a bad bet for all involved, its the hail Mary pass of child production. As noted it’s a really bad bet for actually producing children that are healthy. Those companies have done the math and simply said, one, “We’ll pay to freeze the eggs, but all the risk of trying to have a baby is still on you, Ms up and comer”. So the woman takes the risk of paying… Read more »
@Rollo: there is some intrasexual competition involved—if woman A convinces woman B to delay birthing then woman A’s alpha sons can dominate both woman B and woman B’s offspring. I.e. patriarchy is okay as long as it is the Queen Mother directing her regal sons.
Popular media and commercials are pandering to hypergamy and making thirsty beta behavior the norm. This JCPenney commercial sums it up. From what I’ve seen in clubs and parties…it’s not that big an exaggeration:
Some game themes this highlights:
1) Thirsty beta doesn’t get the girl no matter how determined.
2) Women love drama
3) Women thrive on chaos especially when they’re either the cause of it or at the centre of it
4) pedestalization of women leads no where (the story doesn’t reach resolution, it just ends)
@bjorn “This may be obvious but the ability to conceive at a later age has always been a privilege granted to men alone. If it is possible to grant this privilege to women, then I see no good reason to deny it. There are many other privileges that women have that are denied to men, and this is where our attention should be focused.” Ya well that “privilege” was granted by our bio-mechanical overlord. It’s not a social construct, it’s a biological fact that an 80 year old man can spout off a couple of million viable sperm and that… Read more »
“Hypergamy is rooted in doubt; doubt that any one man might serve to optimally satisfy the dual nature of women’s sexual strategy – optimal sexual agency for optimal genetic selection, and then optimal provisioning for optimal parental investment in offspring – Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks. This doubt of optimization defines the subconscious hindbrain experience for women throughout all phases of their lives.” For most women, it’s not subconscious. I’ve actually heard women say to each other that they don’t believe at all that one man can fulfil both the “lover” and “provider” role. They use different words for the… Read more »
You missed the ending, she shows up at the coffee shop to meet her indie drummer FB, for whom SHE is plate 7, and buys HIM coffee, before they hit his futon in his studio up 5 flights of stairs…
Older women tend to have kids with genetic and developmental problems. Congenital defects. Birth defects.
How bout aspergers syndrome?
I think your observation is true mainly for older first births. If a woman has been launching footballs since she was 23, has 7 children, and is now pregnant again at 40; she may not have any problems and neither will the baby.
My mom was 8 for 8 with no interceptions; had my younger brother when she was 37.
@Agent P I still think this is too generous: “It is assuring them they can ride the carousel, have a career, then flip over and have babies at a time of their choosing,” This ascribes a motive to the companies which, I’m arguing, they just don’t have. It might turn out to be “collateral damage” in the outcome. But I highly doubt any execs are sitting behind their desk thinking, “Well at least the women will know we support them swallowing miles of cock in their peak smv years.” I think the rest of your post basically agrees with my… Read more »
First time posting here, and I don´t know where to begin. This is gonna be a long one, so please bear with me. I´ve been reading the Rational Male for the last three years. I instantly connected with its message, it made sense to me in a way few books or blogs about relationships ever had. As I went through the Archives, I became more and more confident in my decision of delaying marriage (or not getting married at all), building my value through my 20s and enjoying my prime years (30-38) as a mature badass who routinely dates younger… Read more »
@Newton, you need to detox:
I’ll comment more later.
They can have my sperm when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers.
@Newton: “that´s just oneitis”
Nobody said that “just oneitis” doesn’t FUCKING HURT. It wouldn’t be an “itis” if it didn’t. I have lost fucking years of my life to that hurt.
“I´ll probably come back here a lot the next few days.”
There is no probably. There isn’t even a probably not. JUST.FUCKING.DO.IT.
Someone will be here for you. Probably several somebodies. Grab the rope and hang on as long as you need to. You aren’t “being a bother,” Brother.
@Contrarian: You’re doing it wrong.
>They can have my sperm when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers.
Necrophilia is gross …
@Newton, I’ve actually gone through something very similar over the past year and a half. Was with this girl for three years, care about her a lot, even still. I dumped her for the same reasons last year. She wants a family and all that and she’s very attractive and still young enough to get it, so I let her go cause it was the right thing to do. The best advice I can give you is cut all ties dude. I did well for a good year. First time really trying the plate thing and I did decent. But… Read more »
Here you go… welcome to the man club. Took a while, but no worries.
I think what you feel more is perhaps guilt, so go out and forgive yourself… she will be fine. She could have walked away as well, but didn’t. You’re not here to take care of every stray.
Travel is always good at these times. Erase all your online stuff that might be connected to her, if you have some time take 2 weeks. Go someplace “else” far away, different time zones…
And nothing will erase her like another. Happy Hunting.
@NEWTON…… I know the feeling, although I went the other route and stayed with her. Now she thinks she is a “House wife of the OC Cougar”. I am 49, separated for 2 years, trying to get the divorce but she is dragging her feet (I’m sure waiting for the next Beta). I wasted many, many years of my life trying to hold it together for the kids. But, I have the second half of my life to look forward to. I think I was kind of Sigma when I was younger, which is what I think kept my super… Read more »
@Newton: genuine thanks for posting that. I’m in a sort of similar situation but significantly worse in several aspects and I’m interested in whatever any of the wiser men here have to say. In my case I’m married (in what has been mostly blue pill marriage) for almost 10 years, wife now wants kids (mid-thirties) and I don’t. I didn’t lead her on, but when we got married I hadn’t made up my own mind about having kids. As friends and family started having theirs, I made my mind and for at least the last 5 years I’ve made it… Read more »
” made us fight over the stupidest shit. Everything became a reason to tear each other down, as if we were so tired of each other we could not tolerate the silliest little quirks or comments.”
And this is just the typical shit testing, trying to get what she wanted and if it didn’t you can bet an ultimatum was going to come. Because it had to, right?
Gronk uses no game at all. In fact he is overawed by the flirtatiousness of the question.
Watch her reaction carefully when he doesn’t have game. What does she do in the video?
IT HURTS. IT FUCKING HURTS. OH MY FUCKING GOD NOTHING COULD HAVE PREPARED ME FOR THIS.
Been there, done that…oh, shit, I hurt so bad. When I saw my college gf after the breakup walking with some dude, I turned sideways, folded my arms, bent over, and groaned/shrieked.
It helps to know that you’re being bombarded with hormones and that it will get better. Your gf is an addiction that you will kick, but it will take time. Oneitis is an addiction.
In the meantime, oh fuck, it hurts so bad.
Mom was young when she had me. Autism isn’t necessarily produced by senescence. My younger brother isn’t autistic.
Your question about fecundity problems being related to age at first pregnancy is interesting. Maybe having babies fairly frequently postpones uterine senescence.
I wouldn’t be surprised if researchers were to later discover all kinds of new STDs that impact fertility and fecundity. Maybe prions and such that cause STDs.
” she is so ego-invested”
It’s not ego investment, it’s biology. Eggzzz need Spermzzz. Cut her loose.
You do not legislate something into common law. Common law operates in the absence of legislation. Common law can be codified into legislation, but not the other way around.
@Newton It is OK to feel the way you are feeling. Grief is grief. It is not fun. It is OK to acknowlege Oneitis on this forum. “…or maybe she´s just tired of my bullshit, as my temper and frame have been hardly commendable for quite some time)” Work on being happy with yourself. That time may not be now, but when the chance comes, take it. As the time comes, work on feeling good about yourself. Be aware of the five stages of grief and what she will go through. And that you will go through, but you don’t… Read more »
Here’s an interesting article where researchers studies uterine senescence in mice:
“Perhaps “puke it out” would be better advice.”
And a heavy bag isn’t a bad idea either. Better yet if it’s hung some place where you can scream like a maniac without worrying about how it looks to other people.
Pinelero I’m am always surprised by women, when they learn that men don’t want Alpha Widows or single mothers for wifes. They think true love will trump all. Obvious projection on their part, assuming that men have their ability to edit memories at will. It’s deeply ingrained, although some women can learn a bit about how men think; it remains at best conscious competence. For most women it’s unconscious incompetence with a little conscious incompetence on the side. yhufir I’ve been pretty frustrated with TRM and most of the manosphere recently because of this clear lack of solution. Not to… Read more »
FYI that New Jersey bill has gone nowhere and that’s that. Even if somehow it were passed Chris Christie would pocket veto it by ignoring it (he does that a lot). But the point remains: it was touted as some kind of good idea, and some other place might try to make a go of it.
It’s also telling that it isn’t generating any sort of outrage in the mainstream media.
walawala thanks for the Penny’s commercial, I don’t get to see stuff like that because I don’t watch TV.
Some major pedestalization / thirsty beta there, and more than a little open hypergamy as well.
That those companies don’t want to be hurt by hiring women and want to make their company seem attractive to women.
I suppose you wanted to write “want to be hurt by *not* hiring women”.
The 1975 as a feminist band: TV: Fair enough, but if your music videos are any indication, you are a pretty loud and proud feminist, right? MH: Yeah, massively. To call yourself a feminist is to believe that men and women deserve equal opportunities. We live in an insanely patriarchal society. Sex is used to sell things, which I don’t mind, but in all of our videos, whenever we’ve used girls, we’re referencing the irony or the parody that should exist. In the “Girls” video, for instance, they’re all in ridiculous lingerie, and they’re all white and skinny, but it… Read more »
Being “lover” material, while happening to also have resources in abundance puts you in the buyer position assuming you have red pill understanding enough to realize that “women believing you can’t be both” is in fact a bluff to be called that challenges her “invincible” role as the sole “chooser”. Men are supposed to be pursuing their imperatives in the first place. A guy whining about women never telling him how great he is essentially bitches about poker while he’s holding all the aces and STILL is scared to CALL bullshit. The first thing women want you convinced of is… Read more »
The hypergamy aside, it seems prudent for the company, at least, to offer incentives for women who want to work there and give them the ability to focus on their career. You appear to be offering a black or white problem: Should we outlaw women freezing their eggs? Even if that were a possibility (which it clearly isn’t), is that the solution? I don’t care about women freezing their eggs, and I can’t be bothered about this corporate policy. And I’m probably not alone. We’re talking about a minuscule number of potential female beneficiaries here. It’s not like this’ll have… Read more »
There *would* be
So much in the comments already. For those who are following my travails, I’m feeling calm, confident and self-possessed. Lots of energy and joy, I really feel as though I’ve turned a major corner. Time to go out gaming. Been watching more Mystery Method, any beginner gamer should start there it’s simply more accessible than the other stuff. His “system” easy to get and use.
Assurance .. or Insurance .. career qomen take note ..
As for this article, for me right now the only question worth asking is “so what”? How can I operationalize this insight? A few things jump out, most well known to us so I won’t go on and on but rather just treat it like a reminder list: – Be one of the 20%. Game can help anyone be “alpha selected” – meaning short term lover selected. I’m a believer now, I’ve seen it too much in my life to not get that. Even more to the point for all of us here, particularly the older guys and the younger… Read more »
@Newton I think we’ve all be there my friend. But what you don’t see is all you described is what she wants. I’ve been there done that, and I ended up miserable, and eventually divorced. Keep reading, and understand that it will take time, because she meant something to you. The next bout of pain will be how quickly she seems to “move on”, so brace yourself for that. Women move on with a coldness that will shock someone of your experience. My advice is read, learn Game, circulate, focus on what you want out of life. if you have… Read more »
women .. not qomen
One point I forgot to make. Women see men they have power over as intrinsically low value. Get this. Now.
Re: Gronkowski. Gronk is what I’d call an Alpha Buddha. He’s got that inborn natural Alpha disconnection from self. He’s what happens to Corey Worthington when he’s got talent, crazy social proof and achievement. He does have Game, but it’s the unconscious kind that naturally flows from that Zen-like Alphaness and probably a lifetime of having women respond positively to it. He ‘just gets it’ without thinking about it and women get the roller coaster ride they want from a guy without his ‘trying’ to deliver that for them. Notice how there’s not a moment’s hesitation in him when he… Read more »
@ Newton: here is your song, bro
“That want for power is driven by the obsessive hindbrain need to quell the doubt that Hypergamy instills in women. ”
It may be tempting to simplify and discount the true complexity associated with IVF. The success rates and risks should not be ignored. From the outset, they are far from ideal. Women who are 35+ tend to have a 27% success rate, and a great many more experience some kind of serious health complications during pregnancy, delivery, as well as post partem. This entire “freeze your egg and then IVF yourself whenever you’re ready” can certainly can be done. It’s just not very likely to be done in all cases. So I think they’re essentially selling these ladies some prime… Read more »
The abyss has eyes.
Businesses realize (real-lies) that to keep the gravy train rolling with career women they (i.e. the companies) need to offer more INSURANCE to ensure compliance in the goal of long-term employment of said woman. Without this more of the same process will occur. More wimminz will leave their work / job / career to realize (real-lies) their dream of motherhood. It’s very inexpensive INSURANCE for the company to provide .. especially now that most will shift the cost to all the other (male) employee’s or tax-payers. It’s a no brainer for any company that wishes more of the wimminz wouldn’t… Read more »
@AR re: one man can’t fulfill the lover and provider. “I think this may be more common in some subcultures. But I also think it is a more common outlook among Millennial women (35 and younger).” Anecdote on this… While visiting a former fling while traveling for work recently, she let me know she had just started “seeing someone” and then proceeded to make it clear that she wanted me to provide the escalation and hamster pellets to help her rationalize why it was ok for us to hook up. She was caressing my arm and neck while informing me… Read more »
In 2015 women were offered workplace benefits that would allow them to freeze their eggs in order to grant them a promise of a future family irrespective of the personal or career choices they make in life. The message is clear:
Women want babies
Whether it’s on the personal scale of socially engineering generations of men to accommodate this, or on the larger, more direct scale of legislating those assurances into common law, the underlying imperative is to make having babies as certain as possible for the largest number of women.
“Heard joke once: Man goes to doctor. Says he’s depressed. Says life seems harsh and cruel. Says he feels all alone in threatening world where what lies ahead is vague and uncertain. Doctor says, “Treatment is simple. Great clown Pagliacci is in town tonight. Go and see him. That should pick you up.” Man bursts into tears. Says “But Doctor… I am Pagliacci.” Good joke. Everybody laugh. Roll on snare drum. Curtains.” – Rorschach/The Watchmen
I wrote a little bit about this in my last article and I’m planning on covering it more in depth in a future piece, but the key is risk aversion. The modern world is entirely focused around the female attitude towards risk, and trying to minimize the risk of their behaviors/choices. Contraceptives are plentiful and varied for women, abortions are available, they have affirmative action rules. In the end the only real known, yet unconquerable risk for them is their fertility and their age. By permitting and even encouraging freezing eggs, that is the last bit holding back full on… Read more »
A lot of people are getting hung up on the egg freezing logistics rather than grasping the concept of why it would be a PR selling point for a large corporation. There is an insecurity (doubt) about women’s capacity to consolidate on an ideal man, have children with that ideal man later and later in life and still be a leader of industry or some other rewarding or impactful careerist. And this isn’t just about freezing eggs, it also entails legally mandating and advocating for countless other workplace and societal concessions that effectively give women special dispensation to level the… Read more »
@Razor – Holy crap, was that a great comment! This “they constantly work to break masculinity into bite-sized beta bits so the women of the group can graze on the productivity of these drones while reserving the right to harvest aplha honey whenever it “feels” right.” Poly is the default for the early to mid-20yo set these days, no doubt. YaReally talks about this but it’s hard for guys my age to really get it. Of course, one good set with a 20yo hottie convinced me of it. The entire idea of being with one guy when so many possibilities… Read more »
That’s kinda what I was getting at. The trouble they have with finding the man they deserve doesn’t change if the eggs are frozen or not. So, assuming the egg freezing ideas aren’t abandoned, what’s going to be the new insecurity thing?
For those of you just joining our broadcast: Cheer yourself up with the knowledge that, applying Game, you can BE in the 20% – or at least get a lot closer than you’d ever thought possible without it. Because most men WANT to stay in the Matrix, they want to be blue pill. That’s the paradigm they were taught and now they live it and defend it. They won’t compete with you because that would never occur to them. And even so, most men who might compete only apply enough game to get themselves an LTR or marriage, then stop.… Read more »
Let’s get to the end game. Aside from Islam what’s the way to flip the script so men get to stop being dancing monkey for the females and the selectors become the selected.
learn it, live it, love it…lol
oh, and this site is good, too…
Razorwire ” “I am really in touch with my body” and “My body is telling me this [hooking up with me] is right”,” And guess what… ? She is right! The only TRUTH to a woman is her emotion. And in the moment her emotion is never wrong, so she is never wrong. [also consider AF/BB strategy and this kind of thinking enables it] But don’t get down, see this as a feature not a bug. Because of this these are possible: “Don’t change her mind change her mood” AND ““what you feel she feels” There was NEVER any THERE… Read more »
re penny’s girl…
yeah, that shit’s crazy…it gives them an inflated sense of value… that riot was still going on outside, when she came into my coffee shop. i had to neg her 3 times before she fell into my frame and would even make out with me!…3!!!…can you believe it?…lol…
that sun dress WAS cute, though…lol…
@Sentient @wala You missed the ending, she shows up at the coffee shop to meet her indie drummer FB, for whom SHE is plate 7, and buys HIM coffee, before they hit his futon in his studio up 5 flights of stairs… Lolz… he WAS waiting there…lol…i got the coffee, too…so, much for ‘old man game’…lol… (i didn’t feel like pushing for being able to use his futon, though…i felt that would just be ‘wrong’ somehow…you know, professional courtesy…playa to playa…lol) i think i turned the corner when i told her she had to call her hotter, younger sister to… Read more »
Just words on a screen.
All of it.
Your adventures are just words on a screen.
That’s the reality.
You haven’t seen what’s on the other side of the source wall.
The abyss is calling for you.
@Fred Flange Married and applying Game? So long as you want to stay in it, and you’re not starting too late, you’re just restoring yourself to your wife’s top 20%. this is true, even if you were never in that top 20% before…you can still get there… But for that to work you must Always Be Closing! true, this also includes ‘escalation’ as a precursor…’closing’ doesn’t just magically happen…lol… The old PUA saw about forcing yourself to talk to x number of women per day, without any goal or number close in mind? doing this is better than not doing… Read more »
Micro Realtime FR: My subcomms are so much better today that a 20yo hottie just opened me. Of course, I sprayed my pants and yammered away instead of negging and spiking but I didn’t know what to do. Question: Do I need to neg when they open me? I was DHVing with social proof galore in the cafe where I’m known. Also super calm and confident and smiling today. So, where am I at when the hottie opens me? Am I at A3 already so should i have found out more about her? She has a chubby friend with her,… Read more »
“the point I’ve been trying to hammer home on TRM for years about internalizing Red Pill awareness and applying it in Game; while it’s important to demonstrate higher value (DHV) that demonstration should stem from assuming higher value. That higher value should be an internal component from which you manifest it in your reflexive responses and manners.” This. Game as a concept itself was created in order to mimic a natural alpha. This is why I don’t care much in investing my time and effort into all these PUA videos and strategies, the end game is not needing any of… Read more »
More on the Real Time Set: Of course they are interested, I walk like I own the fucking place. But chilled today too. I’m friends with the owner and manager. Just got a shit test from the hottie on a “secret” to productivity I was going to share, so I “took it away” and made them both say “Tell me”. Lol, like shooting fish in a fucking barrel. I can see the hottie squeezing her legs together and twitching feet and now she’s rubbing her own thigh, shrimp dip is beginning to boil. I’m going to open another set just… Read more »
I agree with the salient points made completely…in fact they are mostly restating what you have already said Rollo; which is of course fine to help it sink in.
This leads to a question. Besides (becoming more alpha), what are we (red pill men) supposed to do about it? I don’t mean this sarcastically, as in “why bother discussing it?” attitude, but literally, at a high level Rollo, what do you think “we” should do about it? Acknowledgement is the first step. Check (for many/most of us here)! Now what?
@culum Haha, I am definitely NOT thrill of the hunt to an extreme degree. I am pleasure of sex, with a sprinkling of thrill of the hunt in certain situations. If I was mostly thrill of the hunt I would be happy to get any old girl, provided that it was challenging. Thrill is all about the process. I care about the girl. So long as I have a good vibe with a girl and she gives me a boner, I’m set. That’s really all I care about. Doesn’t mean I don’t want to hone my skills and improve, but… Read more »
That’s some reference guide, bad day. But that’s all dancing monkey stuff, no matter how it’s said to be otherwise.
“There is an insecurity (doubt) about women’s capacity to consolidate on an ideal man, have children with that ideal man later and later in life and still be a leader of industry or some other rewarding or impactful careerist. And this isn’t just about freezing eggs, it also entails legally mandating and advocating for countless other workplace and societal concessions that effectively give women special dispensation to level the playing field in order to accommodate this insecurity.” I agree with Rollo on this completely but I would like to make a couple of points. As a business owner, I hire… Read more »
“Question: Do I need to neg when they open me? ” you need to escalate when they open you. you also need to escalate when you open them. you only want to neg if you want a quick and dirty DHV. DHV’ing is mostly for social hook point purposes anyway. if she opened you, you’re past that stage so who cares. “So, where am I at when the hottie opens me? Am I at A3 already so should i have found out more about her? ” find out just enough so that you can have a legitimate excuse for bouncing… Read more »
@One This dancing monkey loves to dance! I love the push and pull of it, the game of it. I don’t see it the way you do, I see it as yet another area of life in which i must compete. All of life is a competition. For food, shelter, money, friends, jobs – pussy. The man who resents this or finds this “wrong” is merely erecting an ego buffer to protect him from experiencing his failure. This is the burden of performance Rollo talks about – and the powerful, competent man shoulders this burden gladly and loves the game.… Read more »