Assurances


circusgirl

In 2015 women were offered workplace benefits that would allow them to freeze their eggs in order to grant them a promise of a future family irrespective of the personal or career choices they make in life. Granted, this benefit is only reserved for higher up positions in select tech firms that can afford to make a showing of concern for women’s professional and family aspirations (as a PR effort), but the message of even having an option to reserve giving birth at a later phase in life is clear:

Women want an assurance of Hypergamous optimization.

Whether it’s on the personal scale of socially engineering generations of men to accommodate this, or on the larger, more direct scale of legislating those assurances into common law, the underlying imperative is making that optimization as certain as possible for the largest number of women.

It’s important to remember that Hypergamy is rooted in doubt; doubt that any one man might serve to optimally satisfy the dual nature of women’s sexual strategy – optimal sexual agency for optimal genetic selection, and then optimal provisioning for optimal parental investment in offspring – Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks. This doubt of optimization defines the subconscious hindbrain experience for women throughout all phases of their lives.

I covered these phases in Preventive Medicine the book, but to keep things brief, it’s a necessary review when we consider how this doubt extrapolates from the biological level, to the neurological level, on to the personal experiential level, to the interpersonal/intersexual, and on to the great societal and political level. Ensuring Hypergamy is optimized for a majority of women, irrespective of their own suitability for a majority of men, (and at the complete abdication of men’s sexual strategies) is at the root of all feminine empowerment, all socialization of feminine primacy, all cultural efforts to normalize it, and all legislation determined to enforce it.

The latent purpose of developing technology to freeze a woman’s eggs, for instance, is to cheat (or give the impression of being able to cheat) the otherwise naturalistic process of fertility that women are beholden to.

The latent purpose of every pop-cultural trend that contributes to the perception that women can realistically exceed the window of their fertility is offered as an assurance that women have more time than would be naturalistically expected to optimize Hypergamy.

Ostensibly the message for women is the cliché of ‘having it all’ – reassuring women that they can have a rewarding career and make a significant difference in their lives and the lives of others as well as realistically having a meaningful family experience later in life. The unspoken hindbrain message is that a woman has more time to optimize Hypergamy.

If this doubt ensuring requires men’s sacrifices or special dispensations in order to accommodate women’s naturalistic realities or individual deficiencies, those requirements are simply means to an end.

Furthermore, the Feminine Imperative makes exhaustive effort in social, personal and political spheres to assure women that even when their Hypergamous choices prove debilitating or damaging that they have the prerogative to reset their chances at optimization proactively or retroactively.

Whether this is realistic or not is irrelevant to the messaging. This messaging is couched in the social expectation that men are required to afford women this forgiveness of past indiscretions (single motherhood, Alpha Widows, etc.), but again, the purpose of this reset is to provide women with the maximum amount of leeway in consolidating on an optimized Hypergamy.

In Nursing Power I outlined the power dynamic behind women’s drive to maintain the primacy of a feminine defined social order, but it’s too easy to simply think that women’s ultimate end of attaining power is for the sake of power alone. That want for power is driven by the obsessive hindbrain need to quell the doubt that Hypergamy instills in women. All we need do is look at the societal changes women will push to legislate for once they have even marginal degrees of power.

Margins of Power

Serendipitously commenter Not Born This Morning took me to task on this idea in the last comment thread:

@ Rollo – “The new, post-sexual revolution order is a model ostensibly based on ‘sexual freedom’, but what this really represents is a return to that naturalistic sexual order based on pre-agrarian, evolutionarily incentivized hypergamy.”

This is not true.

The naturalistic sexual social order of pre-agrarian human existence expressed BOTH genders natural sexuality without preference of one over the other or the perversion of both that we see today. Today’s laws and social conventions prevent men from returning to THEIR natural sexuality. We are not returning to the naturalistic sexual social order and there is no indication that we will any time soon.

Many of todays “betas” are restrained “alphas”. Law and social convention restrains them.

As a point of order here, I wasn’t suggesting that ‘societally’ western culture is returning to anything like a pre-agrarian sexual paradigm, but rather that pre-agrarian evolved paradigm of Hypergamy is informing the social narrative. Both pre and post agrarian, Hypergamy still influenced and determined our socio-sexual direction – men performed, women chose.

It is not idealism, intellectualism, mental masturbation or “cultural changes” that determine human behavior. We like to pretend that emotional idealism steers history but it never has and never will. We think women are “liberated” by laws and social conventions but they are not. The laws and social conventions that we think make it possible for women to “enjoy” new “freedom” are not the cause, they are only ideals and “paradigms” that result from the real cause.

These laws and social conventions are only thoughts, documents and behavioral practices that confirm what has already happened and been accepted. Women have been liberated from responsibilities and hardships they faced prior to agriculture.

Technology and industrialization were the real enablers of female “liberation” and “freedom”. Today, because of technology, we are relatively safe from predators, famine, disease, and tribes of other humans, etc. We are intellectually advanced (maybe) but definitely physically and mentally weaker. Today’s human female does not need the superior strength, tenacity, strategic intelligence and initiative possessed by surviving males in pre-agrarian tribal groups. Back then, she and her children could not have survived without it him. Today we breed mostly wanna be hyenas and betas and they are voting accordingly.

While we may have a greater mastery over our environment and women may not need strength, tenacity, etc. women’s sexual nature is still informed by an evolved Hypergamy that responds to, and is aroused by, these cues in men.

However, NBTM has a point. Perhaps I should revise that idea, but I will say that post-Sex Rev, the paradigm has favored women’s sexual strategy as the one to define our predominant social order (i.e. unfettered Hypergamy).

Given that freedom and preferential deference to women’s imperatives in a social context, women use both to optimize on a Hypergamy that evolved from pre-agrarian physical and social environments.

Thus, with all the Beta security/provisioning aspects of Hypergamy being met by men (either directly or indirectly) the Alpha sexuality/breeding aspect of Hypergamy is the only thing not directly or immediately available to women without their own qualification for it.

And even this is progressively being accounted for both socially and legislatively with regard to sexual consent law ambiguities, ubiquitous abortion, divorce concessions and curbing every trivial expression of male sexuality from men not ‘worthy’ of expressing it. In fact virtually every socially mandated convention that limits men’s sexual expression or his most marginal want of qualification in women is really an effort in forcing men to comply with women’s need for optimizing Hypergamy.

That’s an important footnote in a social order that’s primarily focused on women’s Hypergamy as the predominant one, and then one that is primarily focused on men’s Alpha side sexual suitability. Beta provisioning needs being relatively assured, women demand satisfaction, qualified and verified satisfaction, of men’s suitability in an Alpha breeding context.

For example:

You’ll have to forgive me for using this video of Gronk (the first has been making the rounds on Twitter), but his nature, attitude and behavior are illustrative of a Hypergamous social order that forgives the excesses of a confirmed Alpha.

I stated in a prior essay that women will break rules for Alphas, but create and impose more rules on Betas while expecting compliance from them. This can be extended to the greater whole of a society based on the Feminine Imperative; feminine social mores forgive the Alpha while punishing the impotent Beta for daring to qualify himself as an Alpha.

One reason women despise the undeniable efficacy of Game is because it devises to bypass women’s innate, evolved filters for determining men’s Alpha suitability. Game depends on triggering women’s emotional states, bad or good, so in addition to intentionally working around her filters, Game also creates an emotional impact.

Bypassing women’s filters, and misrepresenting (or impersonating) a genuine Alpha article is a capitol offense to Hypergamous doubt. So it should come as no surprise that the most egregious laws and social mandates with regards to men’s “appropriate” sexual conduct center on women’s qualifying men and verifying his value to her optimization.

Example: Assemblyman Troy Singleton wants to introduce a bill that would make misrepresenting oneself as a means to sex to be equatable to rape-by-fraud:.

And thus we come to NBTM’s assertion that,…

Today’s laws and social conventions prevent men from returning to THEIR natural sexuality. We are not returning to the naturalistic sexual social order and there is no indication that we will any time soon.

Through cultural, religious or physical means Hypergamy has always had contingencies to keep it in check. These contingencies (rape included unfortunately) are all efforts for men’s assurances of paternity and fidelity in a long term mate, and ultimately (hopefully) constitute men’s exercising an influence on the direction of his culture and species.

From Martie Hasslton on Sexual Pluralism and Mating Strategies:

According to strategic pluralism theory (Gangestad & Simpson, 2000), men have evolved to pursue reproductive strategies that are contingent on their value on the mating market. More attractive men accrue reproductive benefits from spending more time seeking multiple mating partners and relatively less time investing in offspring. In contrast, the reproductive effort of less attractive men, who do not have the same mating opportunities, is better allocated to investing heavily in their mates and offspring and spending relatively less time seeking additional mates.

I’ve emphasized the last bit here because it’s important to consider that the reproductive efforts of lower SMV men necessitate the institution of social structures that also (potentially) ensure his narrowly invested efforts in fewer (or one) mate and his offspring. That man cannot afford to be caught on the losing end of polyandry or cuckoldry. Thus the 80% of men with the most investment and most to lose in the conflict of women’s sexual strategy (Hypergamy) establish social conventions to develop assurances of their own.

Those social structures, religions doctrines and various cultural norms are contingent insurances against the results of a society based on unfettered Hypergamy. In essence those structures were established as buffers against the lack of influence men would have in a society that unilaterally empowers women’s Hypergamy and removes any decision making influence.

About Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine View all posts by Rollo Tomassi

396 responses to “Assurances

  • rugby11

    “Those social structures, religions doctrines and various cultural norms are contingent insurances against the results of a society based on unfettered Hypergamy.”

    Rollo what are some ways to calm myself down knowing this creats anger and frustration by witnessing it?

  • Yollo Comanche

    …..then the guys who know game need to punish the ones that don’t.

    Thug life.

    So. What about geek culture? Most of the necessitous Betas are technology makers, out-providers/out-forgivers and Story-tellers with a side order of being into geeky shit. But NONE of them want to share a bitch. Least not MY generation.

    Will that be the subject of your next article?

  • Fred Flange, Weeknd Drndl

    FYI that New Jersey bill has gone nowhere and that’s that. Even if somehow it were passed Chris Christie would pocket veto it by ignoring it (he does that a lot). But the point remains: it was touted as some kind of good idea, and some other place might try to make a go of it. Though it does reek of a reverse kind of “alienation of affection” fraud tort that you sometimes saw in rich folk mating rituals.

    The trend to watch for is any attempt to expand “yes means yes” beyond colleges and high schools to private conduct between all adults. England tried to do that administratively but there was a lot of pushback, so it’s since been dialed back, for now. Though I will note that with most state legislatures being of a conservative bent these days, it’s not as likely in the USA. For now.

  • Pinelero

    “:This messaging is couched in the social expectation that men are required to afford women this forgiveness of past indiscretions (single motherhood, Alpha Widows, etc.), but again, the purpose of this reset is to provide women with the maximum amount of leeway in consolidating on an optimized Hypergamy.”

    I’m am always surprised by women, when they learn that men don’t want Alpha Widows or single mothers for wifes. They think true love will trump all. My wife asked me if I would have married her if she had a child from another man. I flat out told her, no way would we have gotten married. She started laughing and was a little shaken by that reality. I told her in the wild, the new male lion taking over the pride will kill the cubs of the vanquished male. Oh… some light bulbs came on then.

  • Yhufir

    @Rollo This submission starts out condemning those tech firms for spreading a message. I think the message which you’re arguing for, the message that “Women want an assurance of Hypergamous optimization,” is simply a byproduct of the issue: That those companies don’t want to be hurt by hiring women and want to make their company seem attractive to women. This obviously isn’t a social stance. At least, not on the magnitude that it’s a profitable decision stance.
    I’m not arguing that this byproduct isn’t exactly what you say it is (a way to make certain women happy about potentially optimizing hypergamy in their lives). But I have to question whether anyone would think this is, in reality, a bad thing. The hypergamy aside, it seems prudent for the company, at least, to offer incentives for women who want to work there and give them the ability to focus on their career. You appear to be offering a black or white problem: Should we outlaw women freezing their eggs? Even if that were a possibility (which it clearly isn’t), is that the solution?
    I’ve been pretty frustrated with TRM and most of the manosphere recently because of this clear lack of solution. Sure, these things MIGHT be indicative of a “societal problem.” I’m not entirely sold on some of these ideas but the majority seem cogent so, suspending disbelief for a moment, let’s just say you’re 100% right. What could anyone reading this possibly do to reverse the tide here? Protest egg freezing? Never gonna work. Attempt to enlighten women to their hypergamous nature? I believe I read here first that this not only won’t work but is generally a bad idea (I have attempted to do so in my own life in small quantities and the results ranged from hilarious to disastrous). Enlightening men or “awareness raising” is nice. But, as I see it now, this is simply rhetoric which fosters negative attitudes. Realistic and reality based negative attitudes, granted. But it seems pretty obvious to me why any “feminist”-leaning person would think that any blog which specializes in talking about the inherent defects of women would be “anti-woman.”
    I don’t think the intent here is to be anti-woman so much as pro-man. Yet, I read VERY little discussion of positive male attributes and NO discussion of negative male attributes. People much wiser than I have talked at great length about the virtues of changing yourself because that’s all you can realistically control. Other people’s defects, inherent or not, are not within your power to work on.
    It seems to me that the focus here is on women. If you could apply this much time/energy on dissecting the male part of this equation, I think I – personally – would really like to see what you come up with. I’ve read everything on this site and they seem like brush strokes about men compared to the real drilling you do on women’s nature. Obviously you don’t owe me anything. I’m just trying to put in a humble request for some more personal insight.
    Thanks,
    -Yhufir

  • stuffinbox

    I fully expect someday they will sue men for not fucking the women.

  • capt6

    @Yhufir when all the rules are stacked against you, the only way to win is not to play (MGTOW, for example).

  • bjorn

    I don’t have a problem with women freezing their eggs. If they want to increase their childbearing years so they can run with the boys at work because they are afraid that pregnancy will set them back, then fine, let them work for you. I guess my take on this is that it is not just about hypergamy, women’s career ambitions are part of this as well..

    While Rollo’s ideas are incredibly informative in understanding women’s behavior, I think the hypergamy is overstated. It is a conceit to think that women are entirely motivated by the desire to find a higher status mate.

    From another perspective, postponing child bearing can work to a partner’s benefit financially. If your wife or girlfriend wants to postpone pregnancy to further her career, this will benefit you financially.

    If your partner is freezing her eggs, and you want to have children, I would ask her, “Why wait to have children. There is no point in freezing your eggs. Ir can take care of them just as well as you can.” In my case, my very well educated ex-wife wanted to leave her job and home school after she gave birth to our first children. I told her no, you need to keep working. As a result of my insistence, my ex kept working and I had an amicable divorce with no spousal support involved. I don’t believe that children need a nurturing mother or father at home 24/7 to grow up happy and well adjusted and my kids turned out fine.

    If you believe that children do need someone at home, then she can get out there and work to pay the rent if she insists on having children. If you can’t see your way through to this, then find another partner, there are many, many women out there trying to find a man.

    Men would be better off by insisting that their partners share the financial burden of supporting a family. That to me is standing up for yourself.

  • CSI

    Were pre-agrarian (hunter-gatherer) societies really a hypergamous free-for-all? In many Australian aborigine societies for example teenage girls were often given in arranged marriages to mature (30s) men, with the penalties for pre-marital sex being harsh. I’ll have to look into this some more, but I think every human society has restricted both female hypergamous urges and alpha male polygamous urges.

  • bjorn

    This may be obvious but the ability to conceive at a later age has always been a privilege granted to men alone. If it is possible to grant this privilege to women, then I see no good reason to deny it. There are many other privileges that women have that are denied to men, and this is where our attention should be focused.

  • Johnycomelately

    Maybe there’s an upside to the new paradigm;
    More women doing the work
    More single Mommas means less male investment
    Egg freezers will pay their own way
    More free time for men
    Less beta bucks
    Less dead bedrooms
    Less hen pecked men

    What’s there not to like?

    Interesting post, except the nubmers are wrong since it doesn’t take into account the numerical superiority of male users on Tinder. I guess Ya was right, it indicates a 90/10 ratio.

    http://www.girlsaskguys.com/sexual-behavior/a22977-girls-on-tinder-do-smash-a-lot

  • kfg

    @Bjorn: “As a result of my insistence . . . I had an . . . divorce . . .”

    “Men would be better off by insisting that their partners share the financial burden of supporting a family.”

    Two cars, two work wardrobes, everybody eating crappier yet more expensive food, child care expenses . . .”

    It is perfectly possible for a wife to work and increase the financial burden of supporting a family and a penny saved is a penny earned.

    If you go all Sweden on the issue you might find yourself paying for child care so that your wife can go to work providing . . . child care. The only one who benefits financially is the tax man. They love that shit.

    Perhaps you have a mental paradigm that that tends to see all things as financial matters. If so consider this redaction of your sentence:

    “Men would be better off by insisting that their partners share the . . . burden of . . . a family.”

  • redpillgirlnotes

    Freeze your eggs and put off babies until you’re ready!!! It all sounds good — until you consider the shockingly low success rates of invitro. Even in the 20s, odds are against success, by age 40 the odds are around 2%. I bet these companies aren’t talking about those inconvienent “factoids.” And of course women want to believe they can have it all, on demand, even if that’s nowhere close to true.

    A better plan: have babies in the 20s, start your education/career after the nest is empty!

  • Water Cannon Boy

    Hey, it’s all about what women deserve.
    But once the eggs are frozen, how are they going to incentivize getting the sperm? The eggs may be frozen (may not be viable) but the women will still be older, looking for a man who finds her experiences stimulating.
    Is there going to be a marketing campaign toward men of financial success to freeze their sperm?

  • kfg

    “Is there going to be a marketing campaign toward men of financial success to freeze their sperm?”

    No. It will be:

    1. a)Free of congenital defects. b)Height; see 1a.
    2. IQ

    It will be taken as an axiom that this will produce offspring who produce financial success.

  • One

    Let’s get to the end game. Aside from Islam what’s the way to flip the script so men get to stop being dancing monkey for the females and the selectors become the selected.

  • playdontpay

    These “Assurances” wont deliver.
    Just as if we men ALL learnt game,lifted and upped our SMV, hypergamy would still ensure female mate selection preferences for the top 20% of all these newly improved men.
    Pushing the timeline out further by Freezing eggs won’t allow females to better optimize their hypergameous imperitive.
    Do these females really believe they just “need more a little more time” to find and lock down that alpha? Are they really so fucking deluded?
    It’s called an appraisal if you havn’t managed to do it by 35 or younger you aint going to! To quote Rollo “The medium is the message”.
    Do they really envisage alphas trotting along to the lab to jizz in a test tube to fertilize their stored eggs?
    This is just a PR excersize but the fact that it exists just shows how deluded these entitled bitches have become.

  • Opus

    A small point: In the third paragraph you refer to legislating [Hypergamous optimization] into common law. I stand to be corrected by any American qualified lawyer, but otherwise would like to pojnt out that common law (The Common Law) is not legislated but is derived from Judicial decisions. The use of the word ‘common’ can in my respectful submission be lost from the sentence.

  • IAS

    Regarding freezing eggs, I also want to note that it seems many (if not most) women aren’t aware nor actively made aware that their chance of being infertile is already rather high “even” in their mid 30s:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fertility#Female_fertility

  • kfg

    @Opus:

    You are correct, but in this war note that they make use of common law (often referred to as legislating from the bench) when it suits them, and black letter code, when it suits them.

  • Opus

    I was much taken by the second of the above videos. Three paragraphs thereunder Rollo refers to efficacy of Game. Rollo may be right but ask yourself, if you will, how much Game Gronkowski uses. To analyse the seven second clip, he is asked by this young woman a foot shorter than he what he will be doing on 14th February. He is somewhat non-plussed by the question ‘Wo, wo’ – rocks back slightly and then recovering asks what she is doing on that day. Now imagine that instead of being a two hundred pound hunk he were a one hundred and twenty pound weekling but saying exactly the same thing. He would not (with her look to camera) have made her tingle. Gronk uses no game at all. In fact he is overawed by the flirtatiousness of the question. Had I been in his position I might have assumed the sale ‘I’ll be taking you out’ or perhaps, more likely, I would have implied that I was lined up for a hot-time elsewhere, but NOT, assuredly not asked ‘what are you doing’. Game may work but being a hunk obviates the need for it.

  • hoellenhund2

    A better plan: have babies in the 20s, start your education/career after the nest is empty!

    It’s a better plan indeed…for girls who can find

    a) faithful, well-paid husbands willing to finance their SAHM lifestyle for 5-10 years
    b) employers willing to hire women with high school diplomas, no work experience and a bunch of small children.

    Yeah, piece of cake.

  • Liz

    “It is perfectly possible for a wife to work and increase the financial burden of supporting a family and a penny saved is a penny earned.”

    Yep. I’ve seen it many many times…when indirect expenses are factored in I’d say it’s the case more often than not. When our first was born, I “shopped” at garage sales and was able to feed our small family on very little. We did save the first few years of marriage when I was working, that helped. But I married very young.

    Bloom mentions the odds above and she’s right. But there’s also the expense. Most businesses won’t fund it and IVF can set you back tens of thousands even without success.

  • Liz

    I will say this, I’m glad I had the fulltime working mom experience because it gave me a lot of perspective and experience.
    I was even able to support the family when my husband had a career change so we didn’t have to tap into our savings and that was nice. It was really difficult and an awful experience from the kids’ perspective though (every situation is unique, but this was ours…it was kind of like being a single working mom sans child support for about a year, tough times but we made it).
    From Mike’s perspective, having a SAHM as a wife now, after working fulltime, is the best thing thing that ever happened to us. Because I’m very appreciative and I know how much it sucks to juggle work with kids.

  • benfromtexas

    @Rollo
    The part about how men are expected to forgive women for their past indiscretions was some strong shit. I love it when Dalrock breaks those social conventions down. I’ve seen it first hand where women have out of this world expectations and single mothers are the worst. The White Knight mentality is alive and well, because I personally feel weak men(who can’t pull a girl) facilitate this all the time. I find weak men as much or even more of a problem. Your politician example is the perfect example. I’m like,”Dude, quit being a suck up bitch to women!”

    The way women forgive the established/confirmed Alpha was awesome too. That’s why Trump is cleaning house and how the Beta commentators just can’t understand how he leads in many polls. Most of his “base” supporters are the women looking for the strong man to lead. Combine that with a hot wife. We all know women like men who can get hot women. His rise is a biological response just like Gronk.

  • God is Laughing

    Mark 10:28-31 KJV
    “Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee. And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel’s, But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life. But many that are first shall be last; and the last first.”

  • theasdgamer

    Older women tend to have kids with genetic and developmental problems. Congenital defects. Birth defects. Freezing eggs doesn’t eliminate the problems associated with older pregnancies. The uterus tends to be more scarred, there are more problems with her blood, her physiology has aged, her cellular mitochondria have more defects, etc.

    The issues have to do with fecundity as well as fertility.

  • Agent P

    @Yhufir
    Those same companies you speak of have an extraordinary grasp of data and how to crunch it, a monkey could crunch the numbers on IVF and see that its a bad bet for all involved, its the hail Mary pass of child production. As noted it’s a really bad bet for actually producing children that are healthy.
    Those companies have done the math and simply said, one, “We’ll pay to freeze the eggs, but all the risk of trying to have a baby is still on you, Ms up and comer”. So the woman takes the risk of paying for IVF and then if she is lucky trying to pull off a risky pregnancy.
    I would stand by Rollo asserting this is indeed simply an “assurance” to women that “we have your back when you try to have it all”. It’s largely a hollow assurance but its telling them what they (women on that career track) want to hear. It is assuring them they can ride the carousel, have a career, then flip over and have babies at a time of their choosing, and if they choose to have that with a side of BB so be it.
    It’s a cheap investment in keeping a horse in a race a little bit longer to throw a $10,000 bonus at a bunch of ladies so they stop flip flopping on their careers and dig in just a little bit longer during what might be their peak office productivity years. I don’t imagine a 38 year old women who is navel gazing contemplating should I stay or should I go at a fortune 500 company is at the top of her productivity game. If she feels appreciated and secure she can march forward in her career with confidence and be a more productive worker. The deal ensures she needs to be really committed to leaving as she’ll be into 20-50K in IVF treatments plus plus plus down the line. By the time the ladies get to the age they think they are ready for that, it’ll be up to their doctors to crush their dreams by saying, “your chances of success are perhaps 20% at best”. From there she has two choices, try and likely fail, then come back and say she tried but now she is dedicating her life to her career that she always wanted anyhow, or get out and play mommy for a few years. she comes back and they can significantly downgrade her pay expectations due to her absence of some period of time. Either way the companies get a few more productive years out of her which can turn into eternal relationship with the woman or they take her back after a pause at a big discount.

  • SJB

    @Rollo: there is some intrasexual competition involved—if woman A convinces woman B to delay birthing then woman A’s alpha sons can dominate both woman B and woman B’s offspring. I.e. patriarchy is okay as long as it is the Queen Mother directing her regal sons.

  • walawala

    Popular media and commercials are pandering to hypergamy and making thirsty beta behavior the norm. This JCPenney commercial sums it up. From what I’ve seen in clubs and parties…it’s not that big an exaggeration:

    Some game themes this highlights:

    1) Thirsty beta doesn’t get the girl no matter how determined.
    2) Women love drama
    3) Women thrive on chaos especially when they’re either the cause of it or at the centre of it
    4) pedestalization of women leads no where (the story doesn’t reach resolution, it just ends)

  • Agent P

    @bjorn
    “This may be obvious but the ability to conceive at a later age has always been a privilege granted to men alone. If it is possible to grant this privilege to women, then I see no good reason to deny it. There are many other privileges that women have that are denied to men, and this is where our attention should be focused.”

    Ya well that “privilege” was granted by our bio-mechanical overlord. It’s not a social construct, it’s a biological fact that an 80 year old man can spout off a couple of million viable sperm and that a 40 years old woman’s uterus is relatively done. It’s “done” for a reason, it doesn’t produce good results. It’s an abomination against nature and evolution to try and pull one more out of an oven that should have been turned off a decade before.

    From a societal perspective, I don’t want my tax dollars (I am Canadian so I both enjoy and endure socialized medicine) subsiding bad decisions by females that run counter to what biology is in such a radical and useless fashion. If a child is born from such a procedure the chances of that child and the mother for that matter requiring a huge societal investment is very high. The risk of that move now gets spread across my society, like so many on women’s decisions these days and it ends up costing us all.

    It’s little wonder Immigration is the go to move for left leaning countries to develop human capital, its far cheaper that paying for late stage vanity pregnancies by women who “want it all”.

  • Tom

    “Hypergamy is rooted in doubt; doubt that any one man might serve to optimally satisfy the dual nature of women’s sexual strategy – optimal sexual agency for optimal genetic selection, and then optimal provisioning for optimal parental investment in offspring – Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks. This doubt of optimization defines the subconscious hindbrain experience for women throughout all phases of their lives.”

    For most women, it’s not subconscious. I’ve actually heard women say to each other that they don’t believe at all that one man can fulfil both the “lover” and “provider” role.

    They use different words for the same idea, but they’re definitely expressing explicitly what’s hardwired into them.

    Most women also consciously believe that sex will grind to a low level, or even a halt, in a marriage or any other long-term relationship, when children arrive. They talk about this among themselves. And I’ve heard many say quite explicitly that they plan on finding “lovers” (they all use this word here) to fill the sex void when the sex goes downhill in their marriage.

    Some women are even dumb enough to talk to their husband about this idea- plaintively trying to convince him that this is the norm- that ALL married couples stop having sex, and he should just accept the “truth” and stop “pressuring” her. LOL- chick logic at work.

    And of course beta chumps put up with all this shit.

    But it’s not subconscious- for many, at least.

  • Sentient

    @wala

    You missed the ending, she shows up at the coffee shop to meet her indie drummer FB, for whom SHE is plate 7, and buys HIM coffee, before they hit his futon in his studio up 5 flights of stairs…

    Lolz…

  • thwack

    theasdgamer

    Older women tend to have kids with genetic and developmental problems. Congenital defects. Birth defects.
    ——————————————————————————–

    How bout aspergers syndrome?

    I think your observation is true mainly for older first births. If a woman has been launching footballs since she was 23, has 7 children, and is now pregnant again at 40; she may not have any problems and neither will the baby.

    My mom was 8 for 8 with no interceptions; had my younger brother when she was 37.

  • Yhufir

    @Agent P

    I still think this is too generous:
    “It is assuring them they can ride the carousel, have a career, then flip over and have babies at a time of their choosing,”

    This ascribes a motive to the companies which, I’m arguing, they just don’t have. It might turn out to be “collateral damage” in the outcome. But I highly doubt any execs are sitting behind their desk thinking, “Well at least the women will know we support them swallowing miles of cock in their peak smv years.” I think the rest of your post basically agrees with my viewpoint, though you had some errors which made it a tad confusing to me since I didn’t want to spend the time deciphering them; companies like this don’t spend money this way unless they expect it to earn them more money in the long run.

    That being said, as far as IVF, I think that’s a salient point as well. If they’re only on the hook for the front-end costs, they’re truly getting the better end of the deal. IVF will, of course, continue to get better as medical technology improves. But the costs are rather large. Anyone planning to take advantage of such a program would still be shouldering a large burden to see it all the way through with no guarantees.

  • Newton

    First time posting here, and I don´t know where to begin. This is gonna be a long one, so please bear with me.

    I´ve been reading the Rational Male for the last three years. I instantly connected with its message, it made sense to me in a way few books or blogs about relationships ever had.

    As I went through the Archives, I became more and more confident in my decision of delaying marriage (or not getting married at all), building my value through my 20s and enjoying my prime years (30-38) as a mature badass who routinely dates younger women.

    To the 24 year-old me, this all sounded like a fucking amazing plan. The only problem: I was in a relationship with a girl I cared deeply about since both of us were 19. This is a sweet girl who wanted to get married by 30, have kids by 32, yadda yadda yadda. You guys know the drill. The Disney Happy Ending.

    Three years ago, with ideas taken from this blog fresh in my mind, I said to her that she was 24, in the prime of her youth, and if she really wanted to follow that Disney script she should find a more family-oriented guy as soon as possible. It was useless. She was madly in love, determined to stay with me (and possibly change my mind) no matter what.

    Now, here´s the truth some of you guys must have already picked up on: I was a coward. If I really wanted what was better for both of us back then, I should have ignored her pleas and walked away.

    The timing was perfect. We were both 24, and we wanted different things. There would be plenty of time for both to recover and search for whatever we wanted.

    The mood was far from perfect. At that point, we were so happy together we were walking on clouds. The relationship was amazing in every way. No wonder she didn´t want to let me go, and no wonder I didn´t have the killer instinct to end it at that point.

    Fast forward to 2016, we´re both turning 28 this year and are so entrenched in each other´s lives and social circles people can hardly remember there was a time before we became a couple. We are the “model young couple” people point at in conversations, childhood friends who grew up together and “made it work” for almost a decade.

    But when we were alone, far away from the eyes of our social circles, the clock was ticking louder than ever. We knew we wanted different things, that hadn´t changed. Her friends and colleagues started getting engaged all around us, her family started pressuring her. All the expectations and little sacrifices came burbling to the surface and made us fight over the stupidest shit. Everything became a reason to tear each other down, as if we were so tired of each other we could not tolerate the silliest little quirks or comments.

    So I ended it yesterday. “For good”, I guess. Her biological clock and the concepts of this blog (she heard about The Wall from me several times) helped her cope with it, and she´s taking it very well (or maybe she´s just tired of my bullshit, as my temper and frame have been hardly commendable for quite some time).

    Now, I know I did the right thing. Even at 28, she still looks young and fit, and is still in pretty good position to meet a cool guy in the next couple years who will give her exactly what she wants. Engagement, big wedding party, a couple of toddlers.

    From my side, the money started pouring in, and if I work hard for the next 3 years, the lifestyle I envisioned when I found this blog is perfectly attainable. I have trusted friends, my body is in shape, business are looking up.

    So, in the end, everything went as planned, right?

    Just one problem: IT HURTS. IT FUCKING HURTS. OH MY FUCKING GOD NOTHING COULD HAVE PREPARED ME FOR THIS.

    Seriously, I get it if somebody thinks “you´re just being a pussy” or “that´s just oneitis”. You may be right. But I assure you I´m not an emotional guy (most people would call me a “cold” or “tough” individual). Fuck, I have already buried loved ones, I know emotional pain. But Holy Mother of God, this shit is eating me alive.

    I can hear her voice inside my head as a recording. I can´t focus. At all. If she contacts me, and there´s a good chance she will, I won´t have the strenght to stay away.

    Full disclosure: this is the first time in my life I´m writing on an Internet board to vent. Never done it. Didn´t think it could help. But right now, I feel like I´m gonna drown if I stop typing.

    I know there´s no advice to be given here other than “suck it up”. I know that. I´ve read enough of this kind of “breakup manifesto” in the Manosphere and PUA blogs. But writing makes me feel less shitty, so I would keep typing 24/7 if I could. I could write a whole book if it gave me something to do everyday. Maybe a Diary or something.

    I told myself I would just dive headfirst into work, but I can´t work right now. Can´t focus. So I´ll work on this. I´m gonna write my feelings down.

    I´ll probably come back here a lot the next few days. It´s kinda bad that my first time communicating with guys I respect (Rollo, YaReally, Scray, Gregg, Wala, etc) is to bitch about how much it sucks to let a girl go, but I kinda see you all as older brothers (no lie), so fuck it, I can´t deal with this shit alone right now.

  • contrarian

    They can have my sperm when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

  • kfg

    @Newton: “that´s just oneitis”

    Nobody said that “just oneitis” doesn’t FUCKING HURT. It wouldn’t be an “itis” if it didn’t. I have lost fucking years of my life to that hurt.

    “I´ll probably come back here a lot the next few days.”

    There is no probably. There isn’t even a probably not. JUST.FUCKING.DO.IT.

    Someone will be here for you. Probably several somebodies. Grab the rope and hang on as long as you need to. You aren’t “being a bother,” Brother.

  • kfg

    @Contrarian: You’re doing it wrong.

  • Tom

    Eeew @contrarian

    >They can have my sperm when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

    Necrophilia is gross …

  • Eon56

    @Newton, I’ve actually gone through something very similar over the past year and a half.

    Was with this girl for three years, care about her a lot, even still. I dumped her for the same reasons last year. She wants a family and all that and she’s very attractive and still young enough to get it, so I let her go cause it was the right thing to do.

    The best advice I can give you is cut all ties dude. I did well for a good year. First time really trying the plate thing and I did decent. But just like you, I was always thinking bout the girl. I went back to her. No matter what you do, do not do this. You will find things out about her that you do not Want to know. Leave things like they are, keep your good opinion of her. If she really wants a family I assure you her mind is consumed by it. I

  • Sentient

    Newton

    Here you go… welcome to the man club. Took a while, but no worries.

    I think what you feel more is perhaps guilt, so go out and forgive yourself… she will be fine. She could have walked away as well, but didn’t. You’re not here to take care of every stray.

    Travel is always good at these times. Erase all your online stuff that might be connected to her, if you have some time take 2 weeks. Go someplace “else” far away, different time zones…

    And nothing will erase her like another. Happy Hunting.

  • Betamaxed

    @NEWTON…… I know the feeling, although I went the other route and stayed with her. Now she thinks she is a “House wife of the OC Cougar”. I am 49, separated for 2 years, trying to get the divorce but she is dragging her feet (I’m sure waiting for the next Beta). I wasted many, many years of my life trying to hold it together for the kids. But, I have the second half of my life to look forward to. I think I was kind of Sigma when I was younger, which is what I think kept my super hypergamous wife attracted to me. When our first child was born, my in-laws pulled me aside and stated in no uncertain terms that I was to give up my interests, which at the time were offshore sailing, back country skiing, ultralight flying, off roading, surfing, (you get the idea) because of the risks involved and that they would not watch their daughter raise a family alone. I gave in and became a simpering beta. The upshot was that over the years I lost my Mojo ( as Austin Powers would put it). My work, which requires extreme confidence and conviction at all times, suffered greatly. We ended up suffering financially and the minute the cash and prizes stopped for her, she checked out completely. No more parenting from her, sex, companionship, etc. All she did was go out with her party girls and try to score. By the time we separated I was so messed up in the head (silent treatment, manipulation, convincing my family and hers I was crazy) I couldn’t even function in my chosen profession. It has taken 2 years to get back to where I feel strong enough to be the man I used to be.

    The upshot of this post is to give you some backbone. I wasted 20 years of my life (Although I would never trade the experience of having my children).
    I am looking forward to the rest of my life, which will include living in a 4×4 camper for at least a year, moving back on a boat and sailing the oceans again, and everything else I didn’t experience for the hellish 20 years of our “family life”. The Manoshere has opened my eyes to what I knew deep down but couldn’t put my finger on.
    Stay the course!

  • IAS

    @Newton: genuine thanks for posting that.

    I’m in a sort of similar situation but significantly worse in several aspects and I’m interested in whatever any of the wiser men here have to say.

    In my case I’m married (in what has been mostly blue pill marriage) for almost 10 years, wife now wants kids (mid-thirties) and I don’t.

    I didn’t lead her on, but when we got married I hadn’t made up my own mind about having kids.

    As friends and family started having theirs, I made my mind and for at least the last 5 years I’ve made it increasingly clear that I don’t want kids.

    Conversely, she recently has made it increasing clear she does want kids (she used to say she didn’t know until a few months ago) and that she thinks I just don’t want them because our logistics are bad (to which I tell her I actually really don’t want kids regardless, but apparently she is so ego-invested that I can’t convince her of that).

    The main problem with “logistics” is that we have been in a long distance relationship (!) for a few years now. It is bad enough without kids.

    I don’t know if ending the relationship myself ASAP would be the best for her, whereas in Newton’s case I’m fairly sure he was actually fairly selfless ending it at 28 (although it is fair to point out he seems to only have ended it after his LTR started misbehaving).

    Given my wife is already mid-thirties, I’m unsure she can do better than me at this stage, I wonder what are the chances she actually could get a decent enough man to commit to her and be happier because he actually is around and also wants kids.

    On the other hand, I think I should decide on what to do (short-term, mid-term and long-term) based on what is best for me, rather than what is best for her, so maybe wondering about whether she can be happier with someone else or not is moot.

    I care about her and what may end up happening with her if we divorce. I feel a bit bad that she “wasted” so many of her fertile years with me. But then I remember I also “wasted” that time with her, including the huge opportunity cost I had and have of being faithful in a long distance marriage.

  • Sentient

    Newton

    ” made us fight over the stupidest shit. Everything became a reason to tear each other down, as if we were so tired of each other we could not tolerate the silliest little quirks or comments.”

    And this is just the typical shit testing, trying to get what she wanted and if it didn’t you can bet an ultimatum was going to come. Because it had to, right?

  • redlight

    @opus

    Gronk uses no game at all. In fact he is overawed by the flirtatiousness of the question.

    Watch her reaction carefully when he doesn’t have game. What does she do in the video?

  • theasdgamer

    @ Newton

    IT HURTS. IT FUCKING HURTS. OH MY FUCKING GOD NOTHING COULD HAVE PREPARED ME FOR THIS.

    Been there, done that…oh, shit, I hurt so bad. When I saw my college gf after the breakup walking with some dude, I turned sideways, folded my arms, bent over, and groaned/shrieked.

    It helps to know that you’re being bombarded with hormones and that it will get better. Your gf is an addiction that you will kick, but it will take time. Oneitis is an addiction.

    In the meantime, oh fuck, it hurts so bad.

  • theasdgamer

    @ thwack

    Mom was young when she had me. Autism isn’t necessarily produced by senescence. My younger brother isn’t autistic.

    Your question about fecundity problems being related to age at first pregnancy is interesting. Maybe having babies fairly frequently postpones uterine senescence.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if researchers were to later discover all kinds of new STDs that impact fertility and fecundity. Maybe prions and such that cause STDs.

  • Sentient

    IAS

    ” she is so ego-invested”

    It’s not ego investment, it’s biology. Eggzzz need Spermzzz. Cut her loose.

  • FriendlyRedPillLawyer

    You do not legislate something into common law. Common law operates in the absence of legislation. Common law can be codified into legislation, but not the other way around.

  • SJF

    @Newton

    It is OK to feel the way you are feeling. Grief is grief. It is not fun.

    It is OK to acknowlege Oneitis on this forum.

    …or maybe she´s just tired of my bullshit, as my temper and frame have been hardly commendable for quite some time)”

    Work on being happy with yourself. That time may not be now, but when the chance comes, take it.

    As the time comes, work on feeling good about yourself.

    Be aware of the five stages of grief and what she will go through. And that you will go through, but you don’t have to fake moving through them, you got plenty of time. You’re a man. She does’nt have time, she’s a woman. So she will press.

    And she will do this:

    Grieving a lost amorous relationship

    Denial

    The person left behind is unable to admit that the relationship is over. He/she may continue to seek the former partner’s attention.

    Anger

    The partner left behind may blame the departing partner, or him/herself.

    Bargaining

    The partner left behind may plead with a departing partner that the stimulus that provoked the breakup shall not be repeated. Example: “I can change. Please give me a chance.” Alternatively, he/she may attempt to renegotiate the terms of the relationship.

    Depression

    The partner left behind might feel discouraged that his or her bargaining plea did not convince the former partner to stay.

    Acceptance

    Lastly, the partner abandons all efforts toward renewal of the relationship.

    Don’t kick yourself. I won’t kick you while you are down. Nor would I push you to get through the five stages until you can work through them at your own pace.

    I don’t have any practical advice for the short term. But the companionship of men will do you some good.

    We’re here for you. That’s what the manosphere was invented for.

    I know there´s no advice to be given here other than “suck it up”.

    Perhaps “puke it out” would be better advice.

  • theasdgamer

    @ thwack

    Here’s an interesting article where researchers studies uterine senescence in mice:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1468045/pdf/joa_1961_0111.pdf

  • kfg

    “Perhaps “puke it out” would be better advice.”

    And a heavy bag isn’t a bad idea either. Better yet if it’s hung some place where you can scream like a maniac without worrying about how it looks to other people.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    For most women, it’s not subconscious. I’ve actually heard women say to each other that they don’t believe at all that one man can fulfil both the “lover” and “provider” role.

    https://therationalmale.com/2014/08/07/open-hypergamy/

    https://therationalmale.com/2015/12/07/open-cuckoldry/

  • Anonymous Reader

    Pinelero
    I’m am always surprised by women, when they learn that men don’t want Alpha Widows or single mothers for wifes. They think true love will trump all.

    Obvious projection on their part, assuming that men have their ability to edit memories at will. It’s deeply ingrained, although some women can learn a bit about how men think; it remains at best conscious competence. For most women it’s unconscious incompetence with a little conscious incompetence on the side.

    yhufir
    I’ve been pretty frustrated with TRM and most of the manosphere recently because of this clear lack of solution.

    Not to get all nerdy, but there is an element of Kobiyashi Maru in the current situation. But we do not have the option of “won’t play”, despite what some MGTOW claim.

    For most women, it’s not subconscious. I’ve actually heard women say to each other that they don’t believe at all that one man can fulfil both the “lover” and “provider” role.

    I think this may be more common in some subcultures. But I also think it is a more common outlook among Millennial women (35 and younger). It’s the mirror of the old French / Italian / Spanish notion that a man has to have a mistress to keep him happy.

  • hoellenhund2

    FYI that New Jersey bill has gone nowhere and that’s that. Even if somehow it were passed Chris Christie would pocket veto it by ignoring it (he does that a lot). But the point remains: it was touted as some kind of good idea, and some other place might try to make a go of it.

    It’s also telling that it isn’t generating any sort of outrage in the mainstream media.

  • Anonymous Reader

    walawala thanks for the Penny’s commercial, I don’t get to see stuff like that because I don’t watch TV.
    Some major pedestalization / thirsty beta there, and more than a little open hypergamy as well.

  • hoellenhund2

    That those companies don’t want to be hurt by hiring women and want to make their company seem attractive to women.

    I suppose you wanted to write “want to be hurt by *not* hiring women”.

  • redlight

    The 1975 as a feminist band:

    TV: Fair enough, but if your music videos are any indication, you are a pretty loud and proud feminist, right?

    MH: Yeah, massively. To call yourself a feminist is to believe that men and women deserve equal opportunities. We live in an insanely patriarchal society. Sex is used to sell things, which I don’t mind, but in all of our videos, whenever we’ve used girls, we’re referencing the irony or the parody that should exist. In the “Girls” video, for instance, they’re all in ridiculous lingerie, and they’re all white and skinny, but it was a parody

    http://www.teenvogue.com/story/the-1975-matty-healy-interview

    “Feminist” lyrics (A Change of Heart):

    Was it your breasts from the start? They played a part

    For goodness sake
    I wasn’t told you’d be this cold
    Now it’s my time to depart and I just had a change of heart

    I’ll quote “on the road” like a twat and wind my way out of the city
    Finding a girl who is equally pretty won’t be hard
    Oh, I just had a change of heart

    You smashed a glass into pieces
    That’s around the time I left
    When you were coming across as clever
    Then you lit the wrong end of a cigarette
    You said I’m full of diseases
    Your eyes were full of regret
    And then you took a picture of your salad
    And put it on the Internet

    And she said, “I’ve been so worried about you lately”
    You look shit and smell a bit”
    You’re mad thinking you could ever save me
    Not looking like that

    You used to have a face straight out of a magazine
    Now you just look like anyone

  • Yollo Comanche

    Being “lover” material, while happening to also have resources in abundance puts you in the buyer position assuming you have red pill understanding enough to realize that “women believing you can’t be both” is in fact a bluff to be called that challenges her “invincible” role as the sole “chooser”.

    Men are supposed to be pursuing their imperatives in the first place.

    A guy whining about women never telling him how great he is essentially bitches about poker while he’s holding all the aces and STILL is scared to CALL bullshit.

    The first thing women want you convinced of is that you’re playing a fair game.

  • hoellenhund2

    The hypergamy aside, it seems prudent for the company, at least, to offer incentives for women who want to work there and give them the ability to focus on their career. You appear to be offering a black or white problem: Should we outlaw women freezing their eggs? Even if that were a possibility (which it clearly isn’t), is that the solution?

    I don’t care about women freezing their eggs, and I can’t be bothered about this corporate policy. And I’m probably not alone. We’re talking about a minuscule number of potential female beneficiaries here. It’s not like this’ll have great social implications. What I find telling is the whole silence about this issue. Practically nobody is questioning it. Imagine if some corporation offered similar benefits to male managers. There’s be an enormous media scandal.

  • scribblerg

    So much in the comments already. For those who are following my travails, I’m feeling calm, confident and self-possessed. Lots of energy and joy, I really feel as though I’ve turned a major corner. Time to go out gaming. Been watching more Mystery Method, any beginner gamer should start there it’s simply more accessible than the other stuff. His “system” easy to get and use.

  • scribblerg

    As for this article, for me right now the only question worth asking is “so what”? How can I operationalize this insight? A few things jump out, most well known to us so I won’t go on and on but rather just treat it like a reminder list:

    – Be one of the 20%. Game can help anyone be “alpha selected” – meaning short term lover selected. I’m a believer now, I’ve seen it too much in my life to not get that. Even more to the point for all of us here, particularly the older guys and the younger incels – giving up is exactly the wrong thing to do. My experience in fact tells me that it’s soul death. To give up getting desire sex from a woman is to give up on being a man itself, IMHO. Fyi, I’m learning now that game is not easy nor is it a “trick” – one has to see themselves legitimately as high value and the prize, and then develop social intelligence to actually do this. It will likely take me another couple of years to be competent – with steady effort. I used to think game was just learning a few “tricks” – nope. So, guys, ask yourself this simple question. Do you want desire sex or not? If you do, take on game seriously. If you do but won’t take on game seriously, stop fucking whining. You have noone to blame but yourself.

    – Don’t let the culture or women bullshit you. Western society is driven in exactly the way Rollo describes and the first step we all must do as Red Pill aware men is give up on our idealism and romantic view of women and life. This idealism is the chain that binds us and keeps us miserable. Look at the JCPenney ad, look at the Gronk vids – this is how it is. Alphas (lovers, men who are primarily for sex) get away with murder. Beta’s or provider selected? We get to destroy each other and the world and to be pathetic. Hanging onto idealism will keep you chasing that hot blonde. Also, at some level, women revel in this and love it – it’s an expression of their power. The moment you drop the idealism for real is the moment women no longer have power over you. Sure, you still want the poon but see my previous point for that.

    – As for whether institutions shape or reflect human behavior, reducing your understanding to such a linear construction is just going to confuse you. Human society is a complex system where emergence is unpredictable. It’s better to see these things as feedbacks and forcings rather than simple cause and effect. NBTM’s reasoning suffers from such linearity – @Rollo don’t be tempted to be drawn into that line of thinking. There is no such thing as our “natural sexuality”, it evolves just as everything else. Albeit the biology moves more slowly but even that has changed a lot in 30,000 years. For the man trying to live his life today? Understand that the institutions are set against you and you have to gird yourself against them. You are not crazy – the social setting we exist in wants you to hate yourself, to denigrate yourself and to keep trying “to earn it”. Fuck that.

    @Rollo – Another tour de force, really. Great work. And thanks for keeping at it with me here – you and all the guys. I know I’m a fucking handful at times but I’m also for real and am working through some agonizing core existential shit. Ground has been taken and it would not be the case without you and the men here.

    Okay, back to building my empire, he he. I can actually see it happening now…

  • Craiger247

    @Newton

    I think we’ve all be there my friend. But what you don’t see is all you described is what she wants. I’ve been there done that, and I ended up miserable, and eventually divorced. Keep reading, and understand that it will take time, because she meant something to you. The next bout of pain will be how quickly she seems to “move on”, so brace yourself for that. Women move on with a coldness that will shock someone of your experience. My advice is read, learn Game, circulate, focus on what you want out of life. if you have questions, that’s why we are all here, you will see your stories are very common to what others have lived. I mean respect that people want different things, and her familiarity is what you will miss, and you think the “time put in” means more than it truly does. I’ve said this to many guys, you are not really Alpha or have Game until you let a good looking go, and demand more from them. They need to check all your boxes, not the other way around. You need more experience, and it does sound like Oneitis, but like I said that’s common. Again, go out, read, do you, go through all the stages of grief, and sharpen your Game. Guys like Ya Really, guys at RSD, etc. are all great examples of guys you can learn from, like I did. The field will teach you everything you need to know. I had ALL the same feelings, emotions, etc. as you did, so I’m speaking from experience. And once this lifts, and it will, you will be happier because you are doing want and living your life per our terms. Keep your head up, feel every emotion, but it passes, and working on you, and getting what you want of life is more important than living someone’s life/dreams.

  • honeycomb

    women .. not qomen

  • scribblerg

    One point I forgot to make. Women see men they have power over as intrinsically low value. Get this. Now.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    Re: Gronkowski.

    Gronk is what I’d call an Alpha Buddha. He’s got that inborn natural Alpha disconnection from self. He’s what happens to Corey Worthington when he’s got talent, crazy social proof and achievement.

    He does have Game, but it’s the unconscious kind that naturally flows from that Zen-like Alphaness and probably a lifetime of having women respond positively to it. He ‘just gets it’ without thinking about it and women get the roller coaster ride they want from a guy without his ‘trying’ to deliver that for them.

    Notice how there’s not a moment’s hesitation in him when he goes for the ‘insta-date’ with the reporter on the beach – it’s his first, reflexive response.

    I recently watched a very long video by Tyler (Owen) Durden and in it he makes the point I’ve been trying to hammer home on TRM for years about internalizing Red Pill awareness and applying it in Game; while it’s important to demonstrate higher value (DHV) that demonstration should stem from assuming higher value. That higher value should be an internal component from which you manifest it in your reflexive responses and manners.

    Gronk has Game instinctively because he’s never been conditioned to consider he’s got anything less than higher value.

  • Craig

    @ Newton: here is your song, bro

  • kobayashii1681

    “That want for power is driven by the obsessive hindbrain need to quell the doubt that Hypergamy instills in women. ”

    This.

  • mfriedrich2012

    It may be tempting to simplify and discount the true complexity associated with IVF. The success rates and risks should not be ignored. From the outset, they are far from ideal. Women who are 35+ tend to have a 27% success rate, and a great many more experience some kind of serious health complications during pregnancy, delivery, as well as post partem.
    This entire “freeze your egg and then IVF yourself whenever you’re ready” can certainly can be done. It’s just not very likely to be done in all cases. So I think they’re essentially selling these ladies some prime swamp land in Florida

    http://americanpregnancy.org/infertility/in-vitro-fertilization/

  • The Lone Planet

    The abyss has eyes.

  • honeycomb

    Businesses realize (real-lies) that to keep the gravy train rolling with career women they (i.e. the companies) need to offer more INSURANCE to ensure compliance in the goal of long-term employment of said woman.

    Without this more of the same process will occur. More wimminz will leave their work / job / career to realize (real-lies) their dream of motherhood.

    It’s very inexpensive INSURANCE for the company to provide .. especially now that most will shift the cost to all the other (male) employee’s or tax-payers.

    It’s a no brainer for any company that wishes more of the wimminz wouldn’t opt-out for such a bad career decision (aka motherhood) for the company.

    As for the companies they know the (lack of) success with IVF to career aged-out wimminz. They also know that pretty word salads (e.g. you can have it all baby) work on th wimminz. And work they do. All the way to the ripe’ole’age of retirement .. to support that “lil-one” they dream of .. because no man in the future will provide for them.

    So ends the joy of hopes unanswered. Because when they get to the age to enjoy the fruits of their “labor” (lol .. wrong one ladies) they won’t be able to afford to have that lil-one .. oh wait .. Big Daddy Gubbermint will save you now that your company has gotten all they need out of you.

    As a side note .. I have noticed more and more companies are adding nursing stations / rooms to majority male oriented job sites and that maternity leave policies are being lengthened / bolstered. Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

  • Razorwire

    @AR

    re: one man can’t fulfill the lover and provider.
    “I think this may be more common in some subcultures. But I also think it is a more common outlook among Millennial women (35 and younger).”

    Anecdote on this…

    While visiting a former fling while traveling for work recently, she let me know she had just started “seeing someone” and then proceeded to make it clear that she wanted me to provide the escalation and hamster pellets to help her rationalize why it was ok for us to hook up.

    She was caressing my arm and neck while informing me she was ‘taken’. This I’m taken / take me, among her age group (mid 20’s) is something I’m seeing more of. The PUA midget in me thinks this is great but the rest of me tends to think: gross.

    When she told me of her ‘relationship’ I didn’t ask about the deal terms or anything else. Don’t really care. I just calmly inserted a platonic barrier. Which, of course, inspired her to up her efforts.

    Turned out her latest mate lives next door. She can see his room from hers. I ended up meeting him and even having a couple of beers while out with a group. We got along quite well.

    Prior to my arrival she had told him all about our past and he was “cool” with my visit. He didn’t strike me as a total pussy manlet type but more of a generally soft new-agey guy living in a community in which “open-mindedness” is a high virtue and “possessiveness” is a social sin.

    While I can be a bit hippy at heart it is this kind of thing that has kept me out of these social circles: they constantly work to break masculinity into bite-sized beta bits so the women of the group can graze on the productivity of these drones while reserving the right to harvest aplha honey whenever it “feels” right. It instills a dull sense of androgyny for most but for the right kind of alpha-with-a-man-bun, it can be fruitful.

    So he was seeing the downside of his uber liberal posturing play out before his eyes. He was dutifully paying his dues to the non-judgmental gods but this only works as long as an outsider with ZFG doesn’t intrude.

    He was definitely “not cool” with me sleeping in her bed with her as she had offered, since the couch downstairs is “really uncomfortable.” lol. But what can he do? Be ‘insecure’?

    At one point, over some wine, she waxed on about the this brave new world of relationships: “Why does it have to be either, or, when it can be both?” And like EVERY woman over the past few years, she went to that feminine well: “I am really in touch with my body” and “My body is telling me this [hooking up with me] is right”, that cheap appeal to some higher authority that the yoga birds love to invoke.

    Since I’m not into swinging or anything else of the poly or whatever alternative arrangements are out there, I held firmly as just friends. She’s a millennial who is lost in the feelz like so many. Apparently, she said that poly is becoming a popular thing in her circle. I’m sure it is. The future seems to be some mishmash of androgyny and poly.

    They also aspire to become YouTube famous and if that fails they will start a non-profit. You see, they hate JP Morgan but love Apple ($200 billion in cash reserves), hate government NSA spying but love Facebook and Google, hate traditions that ask them to conform but love traditions that allow them to express, hate commitments that foreclose options but love those commitments that increase social standing (and ask nothing of either party), hate being categorized in a group but love assigning themselves to the “right” kinds of groups.

    I think as their career trajectories go, skewed by those unseen laws of reality that the machine works so hard to obscure, so go their romantic trajectories. A ‘normal’ job-house-spouse-kids asks too much of them in exchange for outcomes that are unreliable. So, YOLO, FOMO, and Feelz win the day.

    The freezing eggs business is fascinating – I know a couple of women talking this up right now. They don’t see it as a way to preserve their god-given (and taketh away) gift of being a wife and mother (that they have squandered) that grants them a second chance to focus on those things that will earn them that path, but rather as a means to continue to focus on themselves and their sacred journeys while feeling good about retaining the *option* to have kids *someday*. At no point do they consider the future man in any of this.

    It is merely one more dangling carrot of delaying the inevitable for the well-off UMC careerists who have yet to hit eject and go teach pilates. And for the younger women, it thickens the smokescreen between their choices and the natural laws of nature.

  • redlight

    In 2015 women were offered workplace benefits that would allow them to freeze their eggs in order to grant them a promise of a future family irrespective of the personal or career choices they make in life. The message is clear:

    Women want babies

    Whether it’s on the personal scale of socially engineering generations of men to accommodate this, or on the larger, more direct scale of legislating those assurances into common law, the underlying imperative is to make having babies as certain as possible for the largest number of women.

  • The Lone Planet

    “Heard joke once: Man goes to doctor. Says he’s depressed. Says life seems harsh and cruel. Says he feels all alone in threatening world where what lies ahead is vague and uncertain. Doctor says, “Treatment is simple. Great clown Pagliacci is in town tonight. Go and see him. That should pick you up.” Man bursts into tears. Says “But Doctor… I am Pagliacci.” Good joke. Everybody laugh. Roll on snare drum. Curtains.” – Rorschach/The Watchmen

  • Black Label Logic

    I wrote a little bit about this in my last article and I’m planning on covering it more in depth in a future piece, but the key is risk aversion. The modern world is entirely focused around the female attitude towards risk, and trying to minimize the risk of their behaviors/choices.

    Contraceptives are plentiful and varied for women, abortions are available, they have affirmative action rules. In the end the only real known, yet unconquerable risk for them is their fertility and their age. By permitting and even encouraging freezing eggs, that is the last bit holding back full on hypergamy.

    Of course, this is in a scenario where women are the determinants, not men. Men will always tend to prefer the newer model, and fertility is only one of the variables that affect female SMV.

    In essence, the cock carousel vs husband and children is a trade-off, you can spend more time in the cock carousel, but then you have less time to find a suitable husband and have children or vice versa. By freezing eggs, you are only affecting one part of the equation, and doing very little to affect the fact that men tend to prefer younger, more attractive women.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    A lot of people are getting hung up on the egg freezing logistics rather than grasping the concept of why it would be a PR selling point for a large corporation.

    There is an insecurity (doubt) about women’s capacity to consolidate on an ideal man, have children with that ideal man later and later in life and still be a leader of industry or some other rewarding or impactful careerist.

    And this isn’t just about freezing eggs, it also entails legally mandating and advocating for countless other workplace and societal concessions that effectively give women special dispensation to level the playing field in order to accommodate this insecurity.

    Extended pregnancy leave, more flexible hours for women, workplace daycare, social conventions that encourage men to marry and support single mothers (or shaming men who disapprove of it), the farce of SATDs, really any convention or Buffer that encourage men to accept women’s sexual strategy as their manly duty to fulfill; all of these are examples of dispensations with the latent purpose of ensuring women’s sexual strategy while still promising her she can live an equally ‘rewarding’ career life on par with “any man”.

    Convincing women they have more time to consolidate on the ideal man, and/or convincing women they can still be effective mothers later and later in life is now coming into conflict with reality:

    https://therationalmale.com/2011/12/02/the-myth-of-the-biological-clock/

    There’s a want for women to have reality cater women’s unique needs, thus the Feminine Imperative’s social primacy. If men and women are truly egalitarian equals it should follow that women ought to be able to enjoy the same biological realities and life plan that men do.

    The unfortunate truth is that men and women are not the same and do not share the same realities, but that doesn’t wash for an all-are-one mindset. So the Feminine Imperative expects men to accept their role in in accommodating women’s deficiencies in creating a handicapped reality where, through special dispensation, they can live out a semblance of a male experience.

  • scribblerg

    @Razor – Holy crap, was that a great comment!

    This “they constantly work to break masculinity into bite-sized beta bits so the women of the group can graze on the productivity of these drones while reserving the right to harvest aplha honey whenever it “feels” right.”

    Poly is the default for the early to mid-20yo set these days, no doubt. YaReally talks about this but it’s hard for guys my age to really get it. Of course, one good set with a 20yo hottie convinced me of it. The entire idea of being with one guy when so many possibilities are flowing at her over her phone non-stop seems absurd. Laughing with her at the ridiculous chode who was constantly trying to date her and be nice to her and “win her over” was the kill shot for me. I asked her why she kept him in orbit and she answered, “I do my laundry there every couple of weeks” and giggled along with me. I said, “Wouldn’t you have more respect for him if next time he told you, “Sure, come over to do your laundry but you have to do so topless””? More laughter and a bit of arousal resulted as I had made the talk sexual.

    This is good news for me though. As an older guy I’m pre-selected as a lover only, qualifying as a BF is simply out of consideration. We aren’t going to hang out with her friends or meet her family or even “date”, she will just hang out and fuck. But then again, I have to be the older guy ride on the cock carousel that is worth taking, which up until now I haven’t been able to dial in intentionally. Interestingly, I did it accidentally a few times but now that I’m “trying” my ego investments fuck me up.

    Just put another brick in the foundation of my empire, btw. Fuck, why have I been making life so hard for myself? Who cares. I’m gonna finish out the day at the cafe and game some young hotties.

    @Newton – You can do a lot of “processing” if you like, but I have a short cut for you. Go fuck another woman, in fact, more than one if you can ASAP. Sinking your dick balls deep into another women will put your wife in her proper perspective. Fyi, if you do, don’t be surprised when the ex comes back at you offering ass sex…AWALT, buddy, AWALT.

    Also, the degree to which you are grief stricken by this is the degree to which you are invested in your idealism about her and the marriage. It also reflects how invested you are in externals – marriage is an external. Family is an external. Let me fast forward 1 year of misery for you – do you deserve to be happy, even if you lose your marriage and family, or not? How long are you willing to punish yourself and flagellate yourself? Cuz the beatings will not stop until you stop administering them.

    Right attitude towards your wife? Next. You will likely get a better woman, she will not. You are in the right place.

  • Water Cannon Boy

    That’s kinda what I was getting at. The trouble they have with finding the man they deserve doesn’t change if the eggs are frozen or not. So, assuming the egg freezing ideas aren’t abandoned, what’s going to be the new insecurity thing?

  • Fred Flange, Kylo Ren and Stimpy

    For those of you just joining our broadcast: Cheer yourself up with the knowledge that, applying Game, you can BE in the 20% – or at least get a lot closer than you’d ever thought possible without it. Because most men WANT to stay in the Matrix, they want to be blue pill. That’s the paradigm they were taught and now they live it and defend it. They won’t compete with you because that would never occur to them. And even so, most men who might compete only apply enough game to get themselves an LTR or marriage, then stop. So to the extent they don’t try to compete: more opportunities for you.

    This is not me saying this: see Blackdragon’s latest entry, plus goodness knows how many pieces here, at Private Man, etc.

    Married and applying Game? So long as you want to stay in it, and you’re not starting too late, you’re just restoring yourself to your wife’s top 20%. But for that to work you must Always Be Closing! The old PUA saw about forcing yourself to talk to x number of women per day, without any goal or number close in mind? Absolutely true, and absolutely essential. (Also an old-school assertiveness training exercise).

    As for me? How much is that Beta in the window? (Put that damn mirror down)

  • having a bad day

    @One

    Let’s get to the end game. Aside from Islam what’s the way to flip the script so men get to stop being dancing monkey for the females and the selectors become the selected.

    http://yareallyarchive.com/

    learn it, live it, love it…lol

    oh, and this site is good, too…

    lol…

    good luck!

  • Sentient

    Razorwire

    ” “I am really in touch with my body” and “My body is telling me this [hooking up with me] is right”,”

    And guess what… ? She is right! The only TRUTH to a woman is her emotion. And in the moment her emotion is never wrong, so she is never wrong. [also consider AF/BB strategy and this kind of thinking enables it]

    But don’t get down, see this as a feature not a bug. Because of this these are possible:

    “Don’t change her mind change her mood”

    AND

    ““what you feel she feels”

    There was NEVER any THERE there… Lulz.

  • having a bad day

    @walawala

    re penny’s girl…

    yeah, that shit’s crazy…it gives them an inflated sense of value… that riot was still going on outside, when she came into my coffee shop. i had to neg her 3 times before she fell into my frame and would even make out with me!…3!!!…can you believe it?…lol…

    that sun dress WAS cute, though…lol…

    good luck!

  • having a bad day

    @Sentient

    @wala

    You missed the ending, she shows up at the coffee shop to meet her indie drummer FB, for whom SHE is plate 7, and buys HIM coffee, before they hit his futon in his studio up 5 flights of stairs…

    Lolz…

    he WAS waiting there…lol…i got the coffee, too…so, much for ‘old man game’…lol…

    (i didn’t feel like pushing for being able to use his futon, though…i felt that would just be ‘wrong’ somehow…you know, professional courtesy…playa to playa…lol)

    i think i turned the corner when i told her she had to call her hotter, younger sister to meet us…lol…

    good luck!

  • The Lone Planet

    Just words on a screen.

    All of it.

    Your adventures are just words on a screen.

    Words.

    That’s the reality.

  • The Lone Planet

    You haven’t seen what’s on the other side of the source wall.

    The abyss is calling for you.

  • having a bad day

    @Fred Flange

    Married and applying Game? So long as you want to stay in it, and you’re not starting too late, you’re just restoring yourself to your wife’s top 20%.

    this is true, even if you were never in that top 20% before…you can still get there…

    But for that to work you must Always Be Closing!

    true, this also includes ‘escalation’ as a precursor…’closing’ doesn’t just magically happen…lol…

    The old PUA saw about forcing yourself to talk to x number of women per day, without any goal or number close in mind?

    doing this is better than not doing this, but actually having a goal is much better (even if it is just to work on talking for 30 seconds)…that way you can measure your progress…and there is NO downside to numbering closing a girl…regardless of whether or not you ever intend to call…

    good luck!

  • scribblerg

    Micro Realtime FR: My subcomms are so much better today that a 20yo hottie just opened me. Of course, I sprayed my pants and yammered away instead of negging and spiking but I didn’t know what to do.

    Question: Do I need to neg when they open me? I was DHVing with social proof galore in the cafe where I’m known. Also super calm and confident and smiling today. So, where am I at when the hottie opens me? Am I at A3 already so should i have found out more about her? She has a chubby friend with her, I think I’m going to open her and ignore the hottie to keep it going. I think I’m in A2 actually so now it’s about DHVing and solid convo, affirming her interest.

    Okay, just opened the friend, threw a couple of negs about hottie being the “younger sister”. Fyi, they are trying to get my attention.

    Shocking disclosure, women are attracted to men who don’t hate themselves….

  • Bromeo

    “the point I’ve been trying to hammer home on TRM for years about internalizing Red Pill awareness and applying it in Game; while it’s important to demonstrate higher value (DHV) that demonstration should stem from assuming higher value. That higher value should be an internal component from which you manifest it in your reflexive responses and manners.”

    This. Game as a concept itself was created in order to mimic a natural alpha. This is why I don’t care much in investing my time and effort into all these PUA videos and strategies, the end game is not needing any of it.

    I would rather focus all my time and energy on the internal component and raising value higher. Think about it, if you were to keep increasing your value and manifest natural responses/manners then you need zero “learned game”, its all natural.

    What happens when this is approached incorrectly? You have guys who are so ego-invested and immersed in “learned game” that they would rather keep going out on weeknights and weekends and worry about approaching rather than care about their financial situation or raising value. Its counter intuitive thinking “learned game” is all that is required, it can only take you so far.

  • scribblerg

    More on the Real Time Set: Of course they are interested, I walk like I own the fucking place. But chilled today too. I’m friends with the owner and manager.

    Just got a shit test from the hottie on a “secret” to productivity I was going to share, so I “took it away” and made them both say “Tell me”. Lol, like shooting fish in a fucking barrel. I can see the hottie squeezing her legs together and twitching feet and now she’s rubbing her own thigh, shrimp dip is beginning to boil. I’m going to open another set just to spike her fucking temp and to punish her further for the shit test.

  • GW

    I agree with the salient points made completely…in fact they are mostly restating what you have already said Rollo; which is of course fine to help it sink in.
    This leads to a question. Besides (becoming more alpha), what are we (red pill men) supposed to do about it? I don’t mean this sarcastically, as in “why bother discussing it?” attitude, but literally, at a high level Rollo, what do you think “we” should do about it? Acknowledgement is the first step. Check (for many/most of us here)! Now what?

  • hank holiday

    @culum

    Haha, I am definitely NOT thrill of the hunt to an extreme degree.

    I am pleasure of sex, with a sprinkling of thrill of the hunt in certain situations. If I was mostly thrill of the hunt I would be happy to get any old girl, provided that it was challenging. Thrill is all about the process.

    I care about the girl. So long as I have a good vibe with a girl and she gives me a boner, I’m set. That’s really all I care about. Doesn’t mean I don’t want to hone my skills and improve, but I am happy to bang any girl who meets those very simple qualifications.

    If the 7 Brazilian came up to me and said “fuck me now” I’d say “ok, sure”. Absolutely 0 dissapointment from not having to work hard to win her over.

    That said the bar of the least attractive girl I will fuck is higher than most pleasure of sex guys. Lots of pleasure of sex guys are like 2 and up. But my bar is higher, at 5 and up, and there are certain kinds of girls I just DON’T FUCKING LIKE. And I tend to very much not like white girls.

    Problem is, I live in an area that is almost exlusively the one SPECIFIC kind of white girl I don’t like. The worst of the worst. So you’re getting a very distorted idea of me. I seem so picky so I must be thrill of the hunt to want a challenge. But that’s not the case. Put me in an area with more variety, and especially asians and latina, and the fact that I am pleasure of sex would become VERY obvious. I’d be going after just about every girl around.

    You have to understand the nature of my surroundings, and how that distorts my behavior. I can assure you though I am pleasure of sex — just with a higher bar than most guys.

    Its worth mentioning though that I don’t fit into categories well and tend to be a hodgepodge of many things.

  • One

    That’s some reference guide, bad day. But that’s all dancing monkey stuff, no matter how it’s said to be otherwise.

  • bjorn

    “There is an insecurity (doubt) about women’s capacity to consolidate on an ideal man, have children with that ideal man later and later in life and still be a leader of industry or some other rewarding or impactful careerist.
    And this isn’t just about freezing eggs, it also entails legally mandating and advocating for countless other workplace and societal concessions that effectively give women special dispensation to level the playing field in order to accommodate this insecurity.”

    I agree with Rollo on this completely but I would like to make a couple of points. As a business owner, I hire the best people for the job, period. And a lot of my best people happen to be women. Many of the concessions granted to women flow to the benefit of the corporations and institutions that employ them, and by extension the economy. In fact, I would imagine that many companies would be thrilled to pay for a woman to freeze her eggs, if it meant delaying pregnancy.

    A second point here is that I believe the best way to bring people around to your side is not to take things away from them but give them what they ask for, as long as it is not too unreasonable.

    “To give your sheep or cow a large, spacious meadow is the way to control him.”

    How many women are happy having it all? Very few.

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