For Better or Worse


Before I dive in here today it’s going to be important to put things into perspective with respect to an Old Married Guy becoming Red Pill aware and then applying what he’s learned in his marriage. In the last few comment threads the discussion has veered to what exactly the state of “monogamy” (if it can be called that) will look like in the next few decades given Red Pill awareness, Open Hypergamy, the progression of technologies that conflict with (or exacerbate) our evolved capacity to reproduce, etc.

The conversation tends to be a back and forth between what a more feasible and pragmatic approach to long-term relationships might be. The Young Single Guys make a (rather convincing) case for some form of men reserving the option of non-exclusivity; to take on short term lovers should the opportunity present itself – even if for just protecting a man’s state of Frame. Dread, being what it is, would necessarily be a mutually understood cornerstone of this arrangement.

The OMGs who’ve had the benefit of experience with respect to living with women (and in some cases divorces), rearing children (for better or worse) then offer up the realities of what a pLTR might be limited by with respect to actually living in an arrangement like this and the legal ramifications it leaves men open to.

Hashing out what Marriage 3.0 will or should look like is a discussion I’ll reserve for the next essay. For now I think it’s going to be important for that debate to recognize that since Red Pill awareness, in the intersexual respect, is a relatively new social awareness there’s always going to be differing experiences with it.

For the young men who’ve had the benefit of being Red Pill aware and learning Game, courtesy of communication technology and the experiences of countless other older men, it may sound kind of mundane when an Old Married Guy (OMG) finally ‘gets it’ after being Blue Pill for so long. But while you may never consider getting married in the future, you will no doubt get older and hopefully wiser in a way that your elders never had the benefit of. The reason I wrote Preventive Medicine was to do just this; to teach men what to expect from women and their sexual strategies and prioritization at their various phases of maturity. However, I would be remiss not to take into consideration what YSGs relate about the realities of today’s sexual marketplace. I think between us we have a very powerful knowledge-base.

As I said, for YSGs, it may seem mundane for a formerly Blue Pill OMG to kick up his wife’s sexual interest with his new Red Pill awareness, but consider that to him the Red Pill is an exciting answer to a long struggle. Likewise, an older guy reeling from an ugly divorce and rebuilding an even better life and sex life with Red Pill awareness is a fantastic feeling that I think is hard for YSGs to empathize with.

Instant Gratification

In my Stalling for Time essay I quoted reader YaReally and his understandable frustration with dealing with women in what’s become the modern sexual marketplace. I won’t re-quote it here, but the gist of it was how women of this generation are so predisposed to the attentions that social media offers them. The immediacy of social affirmation is just an Instagram post away and Beta orbiters are now a utility women simply take for granted.

It’s important to understand this in the light of how women’s psyches interpret instantaneous affirmation, as well as instantaneous indignation, attention and emotional consolation from both Beta orbiters and ‘you go girl’ girlfriends. I should also point out that there’s an even uglier side to this equation for women and girls who find themselves social outcasts. The cruel venom from haters is equally as instantaneous and likewise women’s evolved psyches struggle to process this.

As is the theme of this series, we have a situation wherein technological advancement outpaces human capacity to adequately process how it is affecting us. In this case we have women’s solipsistic nature that prevents the insight necessary to self-govern themselves with regard to how instant gratification of their base needs for attention is affecting their personalities and the decisions they make because of it. Prior to the communication age women’s need for interpersonal affirmation was generally limited to a small social circle and the opportunities to satisfy it were precious and private. It used to require far more investment on the part of women to connect interpersonally. But in the space of just two generations the social media age has made this affirmation an expect part of a woman’s daily life.

On top of this, we find ourselves in a time when feminine-primacy in our social structure makes criticizing or even making casual, constructive, observations of this self-gratifying vanity on par with misogyny for men. Women cannot hear what men wont tell them, and women have far less incentive to self-examine the consequences of what this affirmation-satisfying attention is working in them.

The Open Hypergamy Future

I get what the Young Single Guys are saying, I really do. I linked this article in a recent comment and after reading through it and author’s blog I can’t help but sympathize with the YSG’s grasp of the modern dating scene and how utterly hopeless it is for men to expect anything less than complete, life altering despair from the prospect of marriage. There is no upside to monogamous commitment, but the real kicker is that this condition is what women plan for and would hope for their own daughters.

Now, I understand Emma Johnson is another click-bait outrage broker, but is the sentiment her reader relates in raising her daughter to expect to be a single mother as an ideal state all that difficult or shocking to believe from women in this era?

My dream for my daughter is that she be in a loving relationship, and have a good ex-husband who really does a great job with the kids, 50 percent of the time.

People forget the joys of divorce — sharing your kids without guilt and having alone/me time.

[…]I also have time to exercise, enjoy vacations that are relaxing and involve lots of book-reading, and I have had time to nurture a relationship with my new husband, with fewer of the stresses of blended families.

The idealized state is one in which I outlined in The Myth of the Good Guy:

The problem with this ‘Good Guy’ myth is not because men can’t or wouldn’t want to try to balance women’s Hypergamy for them, but simply because women neither want nor expect that balance in the same man to begin with.

This is a new step in Open Hypergamy, the acknowledgement and proud embrace of women’s Hypergamous sexual strategy is not enough. The open expectation that one man will father and support her children while another will satisfy her sexually and appreciatively is not enough. The plan is literally to raise a young woman to adulthood with the expectation of her raising another child without a father/husband in her life and the child’s. We’re left to presume that the preferred norm for raising boys will be in teaching them it’s their responsibility to accommodate this norm.

The plan is not simply to end the Sandbergian plan for Hypergamy with the “Equal partner, someone who thinks women should be smart, opinionated and ambitious who values fairness and expects or, even better, wants to do his share in the home.” The plan is to leave that well-providing Beta once he’s been locked into indefinite utility and take up with a sexier husband with fewer parental stresses.

Yet, despite the overtness of women’s Hypergamy, men still have an idealistic hope that the worst predations of women wont happen to them. Read this woman’s post, sift through her other posts; she’s despicable, calculating, duplicitous and would put the knife in your back she told you she would,…but she’s also honest.

Whether by our conditioning or some intrinsic idealism, we want to believe in the earnestness of the Old Set of Books in the face of New Book women openly telling us “You stupid men, this is what we plan to do to you from the outset. Naked, open Hypergamy and all its machinations is what I will teach my daughters and grand daughters to do to your sons and grandsons. And you will take it and accept your Alpha Fucks or Beta Bucks roles in all of it because you’ll never get past your inherent idealism that we might not do all of this.”

We want to believe this woman is an outlier, but by order of degree, we know that whether it’s with softly spoken, loving words or a mommy blog that triumphantly yells these truths, women’s opportunistic concept of love will never align with our idealistic concept of love.

Primary LTRs

The arrangement this woman is hoping will be her daughter’s adult life is not too far different from what YaReally was suggesting about pLTRs; a primary long term relationship with a direct or indirect understanding that a man could take other lovers as fits him. He’s not the first to suggest the pLTR scheme as a workaround for marriage or raising a family sans marriage or binding commitment. And if Emma Johnson (or the reader she’s quoted) is to be believed this would be her own ideal relationship, albeit from the perspective of a woman retaining total Frame control.

Even a PUA like Mystery believed he could maintain a literal harem in some kind of live-in pLTR. And then there are the men who subscribe to the Charles Bukowski school of intersexual relations – in the right socioeconomic conditions this pLTR is realtively possible, but I think this is a poor substitute for what, as men we’d like to be an ideal, reciprocal marriage in which men can expect respect, desire, love, honor and all the other words no woman could ever hope to recite from their marriage vows.

I’ve locked horns with more than a few women who want to take me to task over my debating that human beings are not naturally monogamous. From a social perspective, loose monogamy and women’s inherent need for cuckoldry has always conflicted with our more or less successful human progress based on monogamous marriage. This is changing right along with the latest technologies that afford it to. As such, men are also forced to adapt and improvise with women’s inabilities to process these changes and the rapidity with which the next ones occur.

The old gals always like to tout that western society is the result of our agrarian roots and monogamous way of life. This is ironic since it’s women themselves who’ve fought tooth and nail to destroy exactly this ‘successful’ set up. Ruthless, open Hypergamy is now something to be proud of; something to instruct our daughters to utilize for their own solipsistic, selfish betterment at men’s expense – and to feel no shame for it, but rather expect it as the future norm.

It’s now time for men to either accept and adapt to this, or to form our own response to it in a way that not only benefits our interests, but the interests of women who can no longer process these changes without mens’ direct instruction. In Our Sisters’ Keeper I explored the notion that women of today are merely the women we deserve because men have kept their counsel about the affairs of women. We’ve got the women we deserve because our silence, and the silence of our forbearers, was the voice of complicity. Now we’ve come so far that women will send a man to jail or the unemployment office, or a paternity court rather than hear a man criticize her inability to process social changes that harm not only her but the larger social order.

There must come a point where men must unapologetically correct women for the betterment of society. Today this is a bold statement, one that could likely bring consequences to man’s life, but it’s only a bold thought because we’ve allowed women and their imperatives define the Frame of our social order for so long now. The socio-intersexual conditions we find ourselves in today are the direct result of women’s inability to process rapid social changes. As men we need to collectively recognize this. We need to recognize also that our social state is the result of allowing women to set a social framework that indentures men, that calls single motherhood and Hypergamous choices normative ideals.

We also need to recognize that we will be reviled for presuming some patriarchal control or male privilege, but we must have the confidence to set this aside in the knowledge that we now understand that women cannot cope with post-modern social and technological changes.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

1,155 comments on “For Better or Worse

  1. @Vanir

    There is no backing down as long as there are men who think dominating and controlling women is their masculine birthright.

    I keep my birthright in my pants.

  2. As far as dominating and controlling women, I see women all the time who cockblock their friends, actually grabbing them by the hand and pulling them away from men. And women dominate each other using gossip and subtle put-downs all the time.

  3. “Piss off vainier. By your rules you have no right but to self-identify. Thus you have no right to assign an identity to another you mealy-mouthed hypocrite.”

    Identifying as a man does not give the right to dominate and control women…. or am I misunderstanding you completely?

    “And yet you still say nothing about women who use their children to dominate and control the fathers of their children”
    – Radium

    If I stumble across a site where women debate that, the same way you debate techniques for manipulating women – I’ll be sure to engage them there, like I engage you here. However, I am engaging with manipulative men, here. Not manipulative women. So of course that will be the focus.

  4. Hm.
    Which one might make me more prone to “opt out” of life:

    1) I have a form of dementia which will leave me unable to remember anything or even take care of my own bodily functions.

    2) I only have 50 million dollars left to live on.

    50 million (or 50 billion, or whatever) isn’t worth much to a person with advanced LBD.

  5. Btw Vanir, this idea you seem to have that what the men here think really affects the big picture is misplaced. Rollo and his ilk here are just trail blazers; they are the leading shard from the meteor that is heading the way of western culture/society/legal system (especially family law part of the legal system). Injustice demands redress. And it has been long coming. The longer a lid is able to hold pent-up pressures building up inside a vessel, the more violent the explosion when it finally comes off. I promise you that men are eventually going to torpedo that system. They will. Whatever you, I, Rollo or anyone else in here says.

  6. here’s that duluth power wheel @AR keeps talking about…

    read through this shit… even just a ‘look’ (as determined by HER) is ‘sexual abuse’…

    also note that any ‘bad feelz’ that happen as her reaction to interacting with a man are punishable also… this codifies women not having any responsibility for living their own lives…

    good luck!

  7. vainier: You have no right to identify anyone else’s misogyny. The only right you have is to confront your own misogyny. Check your privilege hypocrite.

  8. @habd: the recent bills in CA are just another turn of the Duluth wheel by legally redefining sexual assault as rape. Think female teachers who boff their under-age male students will be charged with rape and given a mandatory sentence? Doubtful.

  9. @ scrib

    People like Vanir would also be the same people claiming we’re heartless if we don’t allow refugees to infiltrate our country and suck up all our resources while our economy is going into the shitter.

    @ Rollo

    In Vanir’s perfect world, men would be imprisoned for even “thought crimes” against women.

    It’s important for men (and everyone else) to understand that people like Vanir’s true aim is not “equality for women,” but direct, overt, and inhumane oppression of men.

    Vanir is a misandrist monster who is a promoter of violence, sexism and oppression against men.

    Fitting name, because their whole cry for “equality for women” is nothing but a veneer.

    The scary part is Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, Mao Zedong, etc. all had campaigns that were nothing but veneers.

    And those veneers were enough to get people to go along with them.

    Many laws that are sexist to men, and oppressive against men, are already in place, as we all know.

  10. “I promise you that men are eventually going to torpedo that system. ”
    – cheupez

    Overall (taking both genders in equal account) the system is more fair now that it ever has been. If men can’t deal with what is in essence an unprecedentedly *just* system, and decide to “torpedo” it to try and make it unjust in men’s favor, again…

    … well. We’re just have to gonna fix it again. Feminism has worked its way up from a position of unfairness and subjugation, before.

    There will always be shifts in society. I am well aware that things may sway back in favor of fascist male supremacists: To men who consider “a fair system” one where they have freedom from responsibility if that’s what they want, or a position of authority if they “graciously” decide to accept responsibility.

    But giving it to them because “those angry misogynists are just gonna get more pissed the longer you refuse to let them step on women” – is not acceptable. That’s just giving in to threats, to terrorism – and will only make things even worse in the long run.

  11. “Vanir is a misandrist monster who is a promoter of violence, sexism and oppression against men.”

    Wow. You REALLY aren’t used to meeting opposition from those who are NOT okay with men manipulating, dominating and controlling women, on this site.

    Because that’s all I’ve done here. Opposed your sexism against women, opposed your desire to oppress and control women, and advocated SELF DEFENSE for women, if you should try to abuse women, or attack their rights and freedoms.

    You need to get out of your echo chamber more, if you equate someone calling your misogynist bs and telling you “NO” – with violence and oppression.

  12. Also, as a man who has suffered legally sanctioned infant genital mutilation, which exists primarily as a result of sexism and oppression against men:

    Men like me identify far more with genitally mutilated women from other countries than women who are legally protected against genital mutilation do.

    This is still a huge sticking point for me. “Circumcision” (genital mutilation) is one of the MOST overt signs of how oppressive and sexist modern society is against men. I don’t even think it can get more overt than that. I can look at my own dick and see the sexist and oppressive state of the times we’re in.

    The *literal mutilation* of the defining feature of what makes a man a man is not only legally sanctioned, but not even recognized for what it is: genital mutilation.

    I feel very similar to scrib’s frustration with all these fucking idiots who claim they have PTSD from a Twitter comment, or from getting cat called when they’re walking down the street.

    This bullshit propaganda adds insult to injury to people who are GENUINELY oppressed and are GENUINELY suffering as a result of this sexism and oppression.

    This is also to say nothing of the very real effects of years of being incel on growing and developing men, which has only gotten worse with the progression to a 90/10 or 95/5 rule instead of the already insane 80/20 rule.

    Women have more power unfairly in their favor than at any other point in history, and are getting MORE, while men are increasingly suffering more from sexism and oppression, while feminists and SJW’s are crying about “inequality.”

    It’s easy for me to write Venir off, as it’s just a name on a screen, but I’ve met a lot of women in real life who think the exact same way. One of the reasons I got off of Facebook.

    You would not believe how many younger women espouse these ideas, and even regularly make FUN of men for claiming that they’re oppressed, or that sexism exists against men.

    They are all truly vile cunts, and it’s tempting to call people out on this shit, but does it EVER change their mind on anything? Does it change anyone’s mind? Including the minds of people lurking and reading comments who we don’t hear from? Maybe.

    How are men supposed to handle this tidal wave of bullshit?

    Take it in stride and simply focus on themselves?

    I keep coming back to that idea: *I* found TRP. *I* found an alternate way. *I* found information that can help save me.

    So my best bet is to focus on myself, and not worry about people who aren’t on board with truly changing their lives.

    When I get overwhelmed it tends to be because I’m focusing on ideas and concepts as I think they apply to other people, instead of myself. As RP men we always have to remind ourselves to be our own mental point of origin, even if the entire world around us is on fire.

  13. Wow, look at the time!!!!

    It gotta go trample some women’s rights, grind a few more under my heel, then finish up by isolating a bunch so that I can manipulate and abuse them.

    I should have started earlier. Now, I’ll probably run out of daylight.

    So much to do, so little time.

  14. @ Venir

    Do you understand what a rebuttal is? Do you understand what “making an argument” means?

    You need to get out of your echo chamber more, if you equate someone calling out your misandrist BS and telling you “NO” – with violence and oppression.

    Can you please define what “dominate” and “control” mean, specifically?

    Here, I’ll hold your hand and help you because you look like you’re struggling to understand what these big words mean:

    Legally sanctioned genital mutilation of infant boys is one example of dominating and controlling men, in a form of violent oppression and sexism against the male gender.

    See? It’s that easy. I just gave context to the phrase “violent oppression.” Which you will ignore, of course, or have some ad-hominem strawman response to.

    Can you rub the couple brain cells you have left together and do that? So you’ll have an actual argument instead of just crapping your pants and flinging your shit at the wall?

    There are a lot of nice men here who are willing to hold your hand and explain these concepts to you. Basic things like how to form a rebuttal, how to make an argument, how to substantiate a point of view, what “logical fallacies” (big words, I know, bear with me here) are….

    …Rollo has been trying to help you, but you have to be willing to listen if you really want to learn anything. The first step is to realize that you’re using logical fallacies.

    Here is a Wiki link so you can learn about what I’m talking about:

    Please only come back and comment once you’ve gotten familiar with that Wiki page and have some form of understanding of what it talks about.

    Wrap your head around this if you can:

    “These are commonly used styles of argument in convincing people, where the focus is on communication and results rather than the correctness of the logic, and may be used whether the point being advanced is correct or not.”

    Like I said, there are a lot of men here who are willing to guide you through all these big words and ideas if you get stuck, so just ask if you need any help in understanding. Rollo’s blog is a bit beyond your reading comprehension level at the moment so please study that Wiki page first. I’m just trying to help you.

  15. @ Blax

    “It gotta go trample some women’s rights, grind a few more under my heel, then finish up by isolating a bunch so that I can manipulate and abuse them.”

    Can you take me along please? I’ve been really stuck in my head lately and I could use some guidance. I’ve got beer and snacks and I promise I won’t get in the way.

    I’ve been having a hard time understanding exactly how to manipulate and abuse women, especially the grinding them under my heel part, and I could use a tutor. Let me know, man. It’s Saturday. Prime time for this. Text me if you’re free.

  16. @ Softek

    Sure thing.

    But you gotta bring a bullet proof vest, because there are millions of vanirs out there who want to spoil the fun, and they are armed with 2nd amendment privilege, and they sound pretty dangerous.

    The ” grinding under the heel ” thing is indeed tricky. Think Doc Martins or heavy Timberlands to remain stylish while subjugating.

    Hit you with the misogynistic goodness by text.

  17. vainier: No one here has ever self-identified as a misogynist save in jest. What gives you the right to violate these men’s autonomy by identifying them as something they do not self-identify?


  18. @ Blax

    Can do. Just turned my phone on. I’ll be waiting. In the meantime, I’ll be practicing some guitar. Working on some note-for-note Hendrix. I’d love to get a band finally going.

    Hendrix impersonation thing threw me off at first, but this guy really knows his shit. Never seen anyone cover Hendrix this well. Check it out.

    @ Rollo

    Bring on the VR porn and the fleshlights if shit like that goes global.

    Guys like me who are having a very hard time even OPENING women, much less Gaming them….that’s enough to make you call it quits for life. Why even try at that point?

    Maybe it’s true that a guy like Owen would be fine, because he knows his shit enough to where he could calibrate and avoid a police call.

    But guys who are just starting out and have no to zero skills with women, and need to work on it? Being threatened with JAIL TIME if you fuck up?

    Jesus Christ. We’re way beyond marriage being a bad deal. It’s becoming a bad deal to even try to have FUN with women in non-committed relationships, or even APPROACH women with the idea of consensually going in that direction.

    The end is nigh. I will say though that all things considered, porn is looking much less bleak than it did when I was incel. It’s like a god damn Hawaiian getaway. VR will only help the realism there.

    People ask why I still have a fleshlight if I’m Red Pill.

    My answer? Now I can masturbate using my left hand while I go on porn. The possibilities are endless.

    And to think that all this time the only way we had VR was to put a cardboard box around our head and computer monitor while we surf Pornhub.

  19. Rollo and friends. I’m English and woke up to a story this morning of an Englishman who had to settle in divorce. It’s literally unbelievable. Check out the link below and let me know what you think.

    *Darts legend Phil ‘The Power’ Taylor must pay ex-wife half £3m fortune*

    It’s literally unbelievable how brazen these worthless feral bitches are. Read the link below.

  20. “wind up believing that feminist Fascism is fair”
    – Anon

    Other way around. Misogynists believe fairness to both genders is feminist fascism.

    Feminist “fairness” consists of ever more choices for women and always more responsibilities for men. Feminist “fairness” is simply female privilege and male bondage.

    Therefore feminism is Fascism and you are a misandric Fascist.

  21. kfg
    The Vanir critter is misattributing quotes, assigning them to people who were themselves quoting the OP.

    It doesn’t affect your own comment, but it is something to note going forward.

    Duly noted. Thinking is not a strong point with this one.

  22. Vanir
    Overall (taking both genders in equal account) the system is more fair now that it ever has been.

    The male suicide rate certainly has something to say about that.

    “Fair” to a feminist Fascist: more choices for women, more burdens for men. Men as mules…to be used and then discarded.

  23. “Men as mules…to be used and then discarded.”

    The animal rights movement began in Victorian England to protect commercial car horses. The working lifespan of a car horse was about 15 years, but the economics were such that it was more profitable to work them to death in just 3. Legislation was eventually passed to restrict overworking the horses.

    If men demanded to be treated like draft animals, most of them would end up better off.

  24. @Vanir

    When men can have their own children without women, then things will be fair…until then, it ain’t fair, so it’s just who can grab as much as they can…all your fairness can just go fuck off

  25. “Can we come up with a plan that will cause feminists to start committing suicide in mass quantities?”

    Mob them with hotter women.

  26. “When men can have their own children without women, then things will be fair…until then, it ain’t fair, so it’s just who can grab as much as they can…all your fairness can just go fuck off”

    Huh. And here I had written off “womb-envy”. I guess Valerie Solanas may actually have had a point regarding that. Live and learn, i guess.

    And we’ll still advocate our more fair system, not one where men get to dictate the terms alone – like in ye olden days. No matter how unfair misogynists think fairness is 😀

  27. @Softie – Part of what the OMGs have been trying to say is that life has never been easy. The path towards success and real power and social standing and mastery and wealth etc. has always been uphill. While our challenges were different, I’m not going to say that YSGs have it harder, you just have different challenges. The solution? Always BE in the solution, not the problem.

    I’m more and more convinced the best approach is to go for your dreams. Even of you crash and burn, at least you won’t be a useless fuck like Vanir. Be delusional, see yourself as an apex male before you become one. Be powerful. Act. Shuck fear and anxiety and negativity as soon as they appear.

  28. @Scribb

    Thanks for the Charles Murray vid, I sent it around to a few people. I think we’re seeing a sea change in how we view globalism, nations, and states. A future candidate who supported a more pro-american / limited immigration / anti-war stance who is also not a midwit bloviator could really clean up the election.

    It is interesting how much Trump has managed to change the discourse though. It’s not through any personal brilliance. It’s the sheer fact that he isn’t part of the political class and doesn’t care what they think of him that allowed him to inject a few ideas outside the Overton window, which had become restricted to only the ideas that supported the current elite’s interests.

    It’s pretty interesting how clearly this showed how much our government is in bed with its own interests first and foremost. Republican, Democrat, it made no difference – both tried to beat the new ideas into permanent submission.

    And it’s relevant to the current discussion in a few ways; kfg keeps on telling us that we need to do something different. And that’s an example of how you do that.

  29. scribblerg, Murray’s work on the UMC vs. MC / WC is very important, however attributing things to “welfare” is not sufficient. Unless you defines “welfare’ very very broadly.

    Thanks to feminism demanding ever more special favors for women simply for existing, there now is an incredibly poweful system in place that benefits women and only women. From the anti-boy bias in K-12 education (the vast majority of Ritalin scrips are for boys, to drug them into submission to female teachers and administrators) to the overt pro-female bias in higher education starting with Title IX, to the overt and covert pro-female bias in any large business, women’s “equality” means suppressing men by many, many means.

    As a result, women are their own Betas in their 20’s. They don’t need a provider. All they need are lovers. This is the pattern that Monyhan noted in the black community way back in the 70’s, and he wrote about it & was banished from polite, liberal, UMC society as a result.

    The irony is that many, possibly most, of the “careers” that women have are purely bogus paper-pushing make-work. And that explicitly includes all those UMC women who work for foundations, on various grants, engaged in “do-goodism” projects.

    Plus given women’s known in-group preference, once women control some area of a business or some area of academia, no men need apply anyjmore. This has happend

    Blaximus isn’t the first man to point out that the black community was the “canary in the coal mine” and he probably won’t be the last, but he’s the man who pointed it out here.

    All these facts are of course totally invisible to femist Fascists. Their solution to any problem is ‘moar power for women, now!” That 4:1 ingroup preference again.

  30. Huh. And here I had written off “womb-envy”. I guess Valerie Solanas may actually have had a point regarding that. Live and learn, i guess.

    Ubetcha, we actually want to make women obsolete. You all don’t have the creativity, high end intelligence, or strength of men. No reason to keep you all around after we can make (male) babies without you all.

  31. Vanir tips its hand with a mention of Valerie Solanas.

    Solanas is mainly remembered for attempting to murder Andy Warhol, and for her rambling screed the SCUM manifesto – a call for killing all men.

    So now we know what Vanir is all about – hatred of men, a desire to kill men, promotion of violence. This is no surprise, it is typical of the Fascist feminists.

    Solanas clearly had daddy issues. Probably Veneer does, too.

    “Life” in this “society” being, at best, an utter bore and no aspect of “society” being at all relevant to women, there remains to civic-minded, responsible, thrill-seeking females only to overthrow the government, eliminate the money system, institute complete automation and eliminate the male sex.
    Valerie Solanas and her followers, such as Vanir

  32. “It’s pretty interesting how clearly this showed how much our government is in bed with its own interests first and foremost. Republican, Democrat, it made no difference – both tried to beat the new ideas into permanent submission.”

    Who wins the Superbowl?
    The NFL.

    The league is the circus. The teams are just part of the act.

  33. Sigh. This is probably only useful to the lurkers, but…


    There may be some men out there that have a ‘thing’ for being in charge of women specifically. That’s not most guys here. That’s not me.

    See, I tried to do the equalist thing in my first relationships. I gave the women explicit equality of opinion and direction in matters both large and small. Those relationships were frustrating and dramatic; the women were always upset or removed from me and in spite of my strong, dedicated attempts to communicate with them, to learn what more I could do, to figure out if there was anything I might be doing wrong….nothing. I was gentle, patient, and empathetic, and made their autonomy and happiness important.

    These relationships got worse and worse till they fell apart.

    I learned through trial and error, and by finding this site, that things changed totally when I just made a few changes – basically, when I started asserting the sorts of things I wanted from her in the relationship, and when I started just making decisions – both large and small – by default. I didn’t start dragging girls around by the hair lol, it’s really not like that.

    Haven’t been in an LTR lately, but the girls I hang with and sleep with are calm, happy, and cheerful when they aren’t trying to tear my clothes off. The dynamic just works. It’s something that both people participate in, as with a dance. The leader doesn’t drag their partner around the dance floor, he leads and she follows. If she doesn’t want to dance, the dance stops.

    Now part of this is drawing lines and boundaries when necessary. She has to know when something is against your values or upsets you or something; this is correction. But in a way I’ve been ‘corrected’ by women as well – whether it be a specific boundary a girl has or just the general learning I had to do about how girls find confidence and a take-charge attitude to be sexy and reassuring.

    Where I’m at here isn’t where I would be, given to myself. The sorts of things we discuss here aren’t just the way men do things; they’re the way men do things in association with women. There are certain ways women are. If we, as men, want to have relationships with them we need to learn to work with that.

    I enjoy where I’m at now. But pre-redpill me would have been perfectly content with the equalist fantasy being true. If this were not so, would we have articles here like this?

  34. @AR

    “….however attributing things to “welfare” is not sufficient. Unless you defines “welfare’ very very broadly.”

    Right, this is only one axis on a multifaceted reality. But I’m glad Scribb inserted data about the importance of social class in this discussion, it is likely one of the largest single variables determining your reproductive options today.

    Unfortunately (and I find I’m usually rephrasing kfg in most of my points these days) ‘class up’ isn’t nearly as much an option as it once was. So it’s largely a static variable.

    Otherwise we might have the surreal situation of having YaReally advocate making lots of money to keep a woman around for the children.

  35. “So now we know what Vanir is all about – hatred of men, a desire to kill men, promotion of violence.”
    – Anon

    Except I only mentioned her due to the outspoken “Womb-envy” of theasdgamer – who so far is the *only* one here who has voiced any desire to be rid of either gender

    “Ubetcha, we actually want to make women obsolete. […] No reason to keep you all around after we can make (male) babies without you all.”

    I have no desire for a world without men. Too bad the people here can’t say the same for a world without women.

    Not that I’m that worried. Even when men figure out how to breed without women, women can still breed (if they want to) – and in worst case scenario – extinction is preferable to enslavement – which is what men USED to want women for.

    So hey, a step up 😀

  36. @sfer

    Woa, cool! I’ve been wondering if/when this stuff would ping on their radar. We could do with a world where Owen is redpilled lol.

  37. @Forge

    You dominating and controlling man, YOU! You dare to give physical commands to a woman on the dance floor!? You are misogynistic! Lead/follow dance is misogynistic! Women who follow in dance are misogynistic! Marriage is misogynistic! Just being a man is misogynistic because biology is misogynistic.

    NB: In lead/follow dances, the man typically is the lead and he gives physical commands to the woman, which is called “leading” her. The man decides the patterns that are to be danced. The man manoeuvers the woman around the dance floor. He controls where she moves. Of course, by accepting his invitation to dance, she submits to him and his control on the dance floor. Some orders might be dangerous, so, in that case, the woman might wisely decide not to follow them, such as one that might cause her to be kicked in the head by another dancer, like when her partner tries to dip her.

  38. If men could breed without women, then men could apply for welfare and get a lot of govt. benefits that currently are used almost exclusively by women.

    We could force women to serve in combat, etc., since women would be extraneous to our needs as men.

  39. “I have no desire for a world without men. Too bad the people here can’t say the same for a world without women.”

    Upholding the stereotype that woman can’t read maps. You GO gurrrl!

  40. It’s just so FAIR that women get 90% of welfare benefits, you know. Redistribution of wealth from men to women is so FAIR. Biology is so FAIR because only women can have babies.

    Miss PantiesTooTight needs to get off her fairness kick, because biology doesn’t care about fairness.

  41. Forgive my language but just how do you legislate p*ssy and d*k. How do you do that? The oppressed women of the west indeed. A law that says it is a hate crime to upset someone, if the one is a woman? That is crazy. Just crazy. Is overboard. Literally. Off the ship into the water. Off the cliff too. Is why I don’t think Vanir is totally wrong. I can see how extinction can happen to something that insists on jumping off cliffs, or running headfirst into a behemoth. When it is over, I hope it will not be centuries before men and women can relearn how to f*k without consulting the then defunct heap of legislation a mile high.

  42. As a woman, I have to ask you something. Mr Tomassi…. Have you ever heard of a thing called LOVE? Because this blog only has its fool followers because you all believe it doesn’t exist. And it is a very, very sad thing. I hope you all one day really find LOVE, because your warped view of relationships and life clearly shows that you have no idea of what LOVING SOMEONE is all about.

  43. “Mr Tomassi…. Have you ever heard of a thing called LOVE? Because this blog only has its fool followers because you all believe it doesn’t exist.”

    Take that, Mr. Hitchens!

  44. Called LOVE.

    NB: NOT just love, but LOVE.


    Could we may be please go ask that tough judge on divorce corp where it resides? I think he may have an idea or two.

  45. @Paula: Second or third husband? Oh, the first? How many men did you love before him? I trust your honesty in this matter.

  46. @Paula

    Allow my ex to explain:

    “I love you more than I can even describe. I can’t imagine living my life without you in it. I want to have your babies and for us to grow old together.”

    Fast forward seven years:

    “I don’t love you anymore. Why can’t you understand this?? Why do you keep trying to change my mind?? I have to follow my heart and not my mind! It’s futile. Now please take your shit and GTFO…”

    What changed? Abuse? No. Neglect? No. Not much except for one significant external influence: She met an older, successful tall, good-looking divorced executive who both wanted to F her and whose SMV was 2+ points higher than mine (at the time).

    Thanks to this blog, I finally could put a word and concept to my utter bewilderment and confusion: hypergamy.

    So please do explicate and define what “love” is. I, for one, am all ears.

  47. cheupez
    Forgive my language but just how do you legislate p*ssy and d*k.

    That’s what the feminist Fascists have tried to do for years. It always comes down to “men with guns who will make other men do what women want” in the end. Force, but the girls get to keep their hands clean.

    So called “affirmative consent” is the latest version.

  48. “So called “affirmative consent” is the latest version.”
    – Anon

    Yes. Women having to agree they want to sleep with you, before you can fuck them – is mucho fascism.

  49. @Paula, let me guess, you found your way over here from InsanityBytes blog? I ask because you’re just parroting back the most common misperception critics deliberately misinterpret about my take on love.

    For the record the post and the quote that’s being misread for you can be found here:

    Iron Rule of Tomassi #6
    Women are utterly incapable of loving a man in the way that a man expects to be loved.

    In its simplicity this speaks volumes about about the condition of Men. It accurately expresses a pervasive nihilism that Men must either confront and accept, or be driven insane in denial for the rest of their lives when they fail to come to terms with the disillusionment.

    Women are incapable of loving men in a way that a man idealizes is possible, in a way he thinks she should be capable of.

    I’ve written quite extensively on Love (there’s even an entire category dedicated to it on the sidebar). You’re new here so I’ll hold your hand and direct you to these posts on love so you have a better understanding about what my thoughts are. I only do this once so I expect you to read them before you respond again:

    Those will give you a good start in understanding how men and women’s concepts of love are not mutually shared. Read those and then, once you have the real story and not the one IB would have you believe, I invite you to come back and let me know what you disagree with.

  50. @Vanir

    Yes. Women having to agree they want to sleep with you, before you can fuck them – is mucho fascism.

    We can hook up once our attorneys have ironed out the details, lol.

  51. Vanir
    Women getting to withdraw consent at any time, even years later, is Fascism. Not surprised that you are on board with false rape accusations.

  52. Vanir:

    Woman hits man on head with hammer. Man calls police.

    Police arrest injured man.

    This is the reality of your “equality”.

  53. Vanir
    Woman has alcohol. Man has alcohol. Woman and man have sex.
    Next day woman claims rape.

    Man is arrested.

    This is the reality of your “equality”.

  54. Wow Vanir, a lot of shaming in your postings, but you’ll need to be more sophisticated, as the old tropes thanks to the internet/twitter/tumblr are becoming common place misandry

  55. @KFG

    I had a red pill meet-up with an infrequent comment-er here earlier today.

    First time meeting him IRL.

    I adapted my plans for opening day of bow-hunting deer season and hung out with him in a red pill flair and communed with nature (Mother Nature being energy giving like actual feminine women–not energy sucking vampires like the current parasite commenting today).

    I raised a blag flag to signal the red pill commune (in your honor).

    I had some throat slitting implements on hand. But didn’t actually start slitting throats. We don’t actually have motive or opportunity to do that in the lower UMC. We mostly only have opportunity to slit open deer bellies when field dressing deer that we harvest.

  56. @Annymous Reader

    “The irony is that many, possibly most, of the “careers” that women have are purely bogus paper-pushing make-work. And that explicitly includes all those UMC women who work for foundations, on various grants, engaged in “do-goodism” projects.”

    I suspect this knowledge is the primary cause of feminist rage. There are virtually no female geniuses in the arts, science, mathematics, philosophy, and technology. And all of the great female scientists have been empirical scientists rather than theoretical scientists. I think feminist rage may be similar to red pill rage. These are women who realize that they are completely dependent on men to maintain society, provide for them, and even keep them safe. And they also realize that their ability to attract a man has a very short window of opportunity.

    Of course men were willing to do all of the above for the women in their lives and also for their children and for society. The feminist is not a complimentarian. She is someone with the standard female need to be desired, but desired in a field that is traditionally male in which she can not complete equally.

  57. @SJF: “I raised a blag flag to signal the red pill commune (in your honor).”


    “I had some throat slitting implements on hand.”

    Ummmmmm, yeah, you might want to tone that down, just a bit. The Pocket Boy 170, medium teeth, is sufficient.

  58. “Ummmmmm, yeah, you might want to tone that down, just a bit. The Pocket Boy 170, medium teeth, is sufficient.”

    Cross purposes. I actually don’t have motive or opportunity for the real pirate experience–like actually slitting throats. My motive or opportunity could actually be swayed by my UMC social status. I could imagine myself with different motives and opportunities.

    I actually do hinge-cut trees and cut autumn olive, shrub honeysuckle and multiflora rose (the devils triad of invasive shrubs–and the holy trinity for deer habitat). The Silky Zubat is in the sweet zone (Goldilocks–wise) of Silky saws. (And it was a symbolic prop, on hand–like the UMC ammo.)

    What is even more symbolic though is red pill guys getting together in real life to affirm each others thinking and achieving goals.

    Bottoms up guys. Stop thinking about the top down FI conspiracy to fuck you in the ass.

    Have a bottoms up approach to self improvement and mastery that includes collaborating with other red pill guys that are difficult to hook up with. These guys are like a needle in a haystack. But they are not non-existent in your realm. Look to guys that are successful in doing what they are doing, including relationship game.

    And hook up with red pill guys: the other secret society fight club, not talking about fight club. When you hook up: talk incessantly about Game. Affirm your mentee’s good game and redirect their energies for slightly failed game for the betterment of them.

    Be a mentor or mentee in real life. Live red pill. Raise a black flag and start slitting throats (I’d suggest you do this metaphorically at first IRL @ home).

    I fancied my buddy as a mentee as told him that my job was to hang out and DHV for a couple hours.

    SJF January 20th, 2016 at 10:42 am:

    Get a mentor to improve your life:

    That was actually not very good writing by me. I try. There is a product out there that is more spartan: JulianRSD Shift notes (like a Cliff notes typed out summary of his videos)

  59. Was at a big festival with a friend of mine who is a “natural”. He has a natural instinct with game but no technique.

    I’m carefully targeting hotties who are young and 7 and above.

    The odd MiLF who is hot for age comes over to me. I game her. Then toss her over to my friend who basically says “come Back to my hotel.”

    Far from running away she starts rationalising: too fast…too soon…I’m busy tomorrow morning…

    It was interesting to see unrefined game as an observer.whrras I’m opening and coming back and going longer game…this guy is spraying far and wide.

    Neither of us pulled that night. But using my game I could have easily pulled a MlLF but now am much more discriminating in my tastes: below 30…

    In both of us girls saw two dudes who were doing shots with each other and gaming other girls…we were magnets.

    For the newbies here a bold approach with lots of amused mastery like my friend will work wonders.

    My game is more focused…more one on one not goofy life of the party persona.

    My friend is a wildman. Both approaches work but at the core is unshakeable confidence.

    I was more reserved and waiting for more overt iioi’s. My targets were hotter but more shy.

    My friend was just ploughing through.

    I learned a lot from this dude. Women may reject you but they do respect boldness and a willingness to walk away.

  60. @ Anonymous Reader,

    “That’s what the feminist Fascists have tried to do for years. It always comes down to “men with guns who will make other men do what women want” in the end. Force, but the girls get to keep their hands clean.”

    Speaking of that dynamic, it makes you wonder about the demographic gender and age breakdown of all the “witches” that were executed during the 1400-1700’s. I’ll bet there is a strong statistical significant correlation for the gender being female and the age range b/t the ages of 16 and 26 years lol. Any chance that the men in the clergy and village courts weren’t the one’s coming up with the witch accusations but that it was instead the women behind those men after catching them sleeping with those “witches”? Don’t know if there is anything to that. Just something to ponder.

    BTW, re: that video of that dude you posted with his GF holding the knife to his throat. Wow…………………………………… I’m speechless.

  61. Correction – change “men in the clergy………” to men in positions of wealth, power and influence and the women behind those men for any catholic priests don’t marry nit pickers out there – lol.

  62. @SJF – For those who may not get your reference. “Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.” ― H.L. Mencken, Prejudices: First Series

    @Forge – Ya, Trump is perhaps among the worst messengers for his message. I think the other thing people miss is that the Prog-Marxists (and that’s what those on the left are, not “liberals”, and they are also bordering on full blown Fascism at this point) hold immense political and institutional power. But their popular power is not nearly as dominant. On many issues the left promotes, they don’t even have a majority.

    Trump is tapping into three things:

    The economic collapse of the working class that is now reaching up into the middle class. It’s also making staying on top harder, look at income mobility stats, people are not moving up nearly as much or staying up. Our entire economy is less dynamic and becomes less so by the day. And the working class and middle class feel it most because their stake in the economy is based on labor/employment. UMC and better feel all this differently because they are getting the asset inflation in stocks and real estate, and access to cheap mortgages and other forms of credit. But working/middle class? Nope, most of them live within 4 paychecks of ruin…

    Populism – It’s funny how the “Untermensch” often get the big picture right. While they may be inarticulate in describing it, what Trump supporters are clearly getting is that the “Belmonters” (a la Murray’s Belmont vs. Fishtown motif), the Prog-Marxist elite like Obama and Clinton, are pissing on their legs and telling them it’s raining. On everything from the economy to islamic terrorism to racial issues, and they’ve had it.

    Nationalism – Shocker, many Americans believe we are a great and good nation. We also believe govt exists to serve us, not the reverse. This has been ignored by the left for too long and many people in their bones detect a nationalism from Trump that is refreshing and normal. It kind of reveals how bizarre some of the ideas the left have been cooing in our ears about for years actually are.

    It’s interesting, a long time ago I decided I was a “white collar, blue collar guy”, like i was in the world of fancy suits but not of it. I was more comfortable in a local, down market bar than a fancy bar. Or perhaps it’s better said that I traversed both worlds. So, what I get that most UMC people don’t is that the working class is pissed off. Like revolutionarily pissed off.

    They are the fuse. And it’s already lit…The neo-marxists (think of them as anti-marxists cuz the turned marxism on its head) are bringing about the class revolution they have sought. Notice the frequency of race riots, the trend is not our friend. Cop killings, increased violence in the ‘hood – what do you think these people will do if Trump is elected? Do you not think that some kind of violent uprising is possible?

    The rhetoric is as heated and hateful as I’ve ever heard it from the left. And I’m not complaining, politics ain’t tiddlywinks, but they level of histrionic claims coming from the MSM every day about Trump is beyond comprehensible. One has to be utterly credulous to not see how the campaign of destruction of Trump is dialed up to 11.

    This signals something. That emotion is real, the anger and hate already demonstrated at Trump events, with leftist revolutionaries attacking Trump supporters, that is all still bubbling away and being fomented. There is infrastructure behind this all too. Various leftist activist groups are “organizing” these protests/riots and are funded by the likes of George Soros and The Ploughshares fund and the Grace Foundation etc. Elitist, leftist wingnuts who are committed to changing the current social order of humanity. For funzies, while they jet around above the messes they create.

    But they have tapped into that working class anger. How many male Bernie supporters come from single mother homes where she got SNAP or Section 8 housing or help with her heating and electric bills, and maybe picked up some food from the food pantry from time to time? We are feeling the effects of multi-generational working class white poverty now too.

    I think the political and the cultural are both effected by the FI but also operate on a par with the FI. I don’t like thinking of any of this hierarchically in terms of modeling (complex, non-linear, dynamical?). It seems to me that our culture has really bifurcated economically, socially, culturally, politically and that energy isn’t going to disappear.

    I think Trump’s election might bring it to a crisis on the left. I also think Hillary’s election might excite certain right wing militia types to act. It’s only going to get uglier from here, folks. The ratchet must continue to work it’s way down now…

  63. YaReally Sentient HABD Wala Forge Scray Hank Tom and PUA Gang

    Finally catching up on my posts (how did you guys hit another 1100 comment thread???) so just swinging back to the replies on my FR about Monday night, way back on page 3 of the comments.

    The core of the comments is just that I need to lead and move forward.

    I think it was scribblerg who was talking some time ago about enjoying having a girl attracted and enjoying the validation and not moving forward. It’s not the same, but kind of along the same lines – I freeze up when I know I should be moving forward.

    @Sentient – point taken about moving forward when I get the “feeling” – this hot two-set it wasn’t so obvious (although I did notice the smile) but I remember you saying pretty much the same thing when I had a strong sexual vibe with one girl in a big group at the end of my last Blitz – again – if I can feel the vibe, so can she.

    Most importantly in terms of nitty gritty structure – “state ain’t gonna build itself” -yeah. I need to be disciplined about building state, especially solo as I am most of the time – maybe a bit of meditation at home before leaving, then music pumping my state, then make sure I do warm up sets etc. It’s all very well to say “lead and go forward” but I need to build up.

    I also take your point about going to places you enjoy for itself. There are definitely places I like more than others, but 95% of the time, whether I enjoy a place or not has more to do with my state and the interactions I have than the place itself. I seem to keep going to these Latin dance places – mainly because I like the friendly vibe and there are sure to be plenty of girls even during the week. But I don’t particularly go for Latin music or Latin girls – I don’t mind them, but I generally prefer “standard” white girls – the Anti-Hank you might say. But there are definitely places where I’ve felt that “WTF am I doing here?” vibe. I remember a couple of years ago going to a event for European expats in town. That would have been okay in itself but when my wing and I got there everyone was locked into a tight social circle AND completely drunk and it was impossible to make any headway. Or when I’ve been to hardcore dance/electronic music events where everyone is on drugs.

    That video with body language tells was interesting – I like how they basically held a singles party in a venue wired with cameras to catch EVERYTHING. It’s not even a PUA video – it looks like they’ve pulled it off a TV show somewhere and put into a “dance game” video. Other than some of the girls being distractingly ugly anyway. All in line with PUA principles – except for the bit where he says you HAVE to have an Approach Invite or you can’t approach a girl. Also I had the same feeling I did my last night at the club – I’m ALREADY way more attractive than 95% of the guys there. Like right now. No wonder I get so many AIs and such good reactions when I open. I just need to lead things forward.

    Re the Thin Man strategy – yeah, we’ve discussed this before. I have actually joined a bunch of groups and things for exactly this reason. And I used to hit up events like The Thin Man back when I had a really good wing (two years ago) until he LTR’ed up. So I’m definitely gonna do this, probably starting in the November Blitz (3 weeks of Blitzing – woo hoo). The main bottleneck is that right now I want to focus on smashing through my cold approach sticking point. I know I have the skills – I just need to get through this sticking point and start closing regularly on cold approach – then I’ll start throwing my net a bit wider.

    Also take your point re Always Be Gaming. I’ve been doing that to some extent – there are just practical difficulties when I’m in the Small Town – for one I do 12+ hour days in front of a computer or in meetings etc, for another the place is a wasteland in terms of girls – sounds similar to where Hank lives (lol). But it does reap some results on occasion so worth sticking to it.

    @Walawala – yeah, I’m open to talking to anyone. It’s crucial to warm up and get the social juices flowing, but I just need to be more disciplined about making sure I do the warm up sets. In this case I was just a bit set back because she failed the boner test and I was a bit umm..NO. But generally I take the view it’s better to get laid than not get laid.

    @HABD – Okay I winced. Seriously I read that and felt like giving myself a headslap. All points taken. I saw some of the HB8 (with the beer)’s IOIs, but not all the ones you pointed out.

    You are right – the core issue isn’t a PUA “technical” issue – I know that stuff well (well enough for my current level that is). It’s a mindset issue. I am perfectly capable of making conversation for a long time and I have any number of DHV stories in my head – after all that is what I do on dates and I have a lot of experience of that. The reason things fizzle out is that I don’t escalate and lead when I should – and that leaves a gap which is difficult to fill. I think it is you who once told me “When in doubt – escalate”. But yes, as a stop gap – I could just talk about her.

    @Scray – thanks, that’s really useful. I take your point about the AIs – they are not necessary at all. It’s more that I’m finally getting used to getting them – it only started sometime last year and the validation still feels good.

    The “circuits” thing – or “short set method” or the RSD Vegas Immersion drill – all basically the same thing – is one of the key drills I’m going to do at my next Blitz in November. Absolutely one of the most important things for me to get out of the “not leading” rut and build my state.

    And I absolutely hadn’t thought of the angle of making the ugly girls my “home set” – that’s infuriating (that it didn’t occur to me). But I sure as hell won’t forget it for next time.

    Lol@the GIF – I take the point. IOIs = Leading and moving forward.

    @Forge – yup I think you’ve nailed the core issue. It’s about Leading. This is the key thing I’m gonna do in the next (November) Blitz.

    And having the mindset/value to do that as Sentient points out, instead of focussing on the PUA “game”. I’m not playing a game – I have value and I’m leading the interaction forward because that is what I want to do. Now that leading and that interaction will involve certain tactics sure, but the focus is not on the tactics – it is on my MPO and value and going forward towards what I want.

    Culum FRs over and out. Until November – 3 weeks of daily FRs

  64. “I think Trump’s election might bring it to a crisis on the left. I also think Hillary’s election might excite certain right wing militia types to act. It’s only going to get uglier from here, folks. The ratchet must continue to work it’s way down now…”

    Hillary, upon election, will immediately implement the first stage of her (and fellow Ivory tower loonies) Final Solution. They performed a similar perfect miracle with tobacco and they will implement the same with gun control. Tax the hell out of it, limit it, shame it.
    If we are indeed going to see interesting times I’d rather just cut to the chase now, while we still have some means to resist.

  65. I should add that after seeing that last debate and all the softball slow pitches Trump missed (and it was obvious they were going to be thrown), I am re-examining my first suspicion when he got into the race.
    I suspected that he was a Trojan horse/ “mole”.
    But there’s no better option now.

  66. Guess I should add, I DID like the way he kept using the title “Secretary” before her name.
    That was the one smart move I saw from Trump during the debate.
    It made the viewers reflect on the obvious:
    She IS the status quo/power in charge….ie, part of the problem.

  67. PS – Sentient, to add to my post above – the “Thin Man Approach” (so to speak) is part of what I like to think of as “Phase 2” in my plans. I want to get comfortable with cold approach and closing first (not perfect, just comfortable – just like I did with dates and escalation and lays on dates).

    Then Phase 2: Building a social circle in Big City, Thin Man Approach, getting specific clubs/venues on lockdown (this is already starting to happen), making more of an effort to get into high-end clubs where the celebs and hotties go..all that stuff.

    But first I need to get the fundamentals down. I have the knowledge and the skills already – just need to take a few more steps on the mindset front.

  68. Scribblerg

    Re Trump and nationalism it’s important to note it is not based on neocon globalist profits and protection of Saudi and isreali interests.

    Too many dead and too much blood on the hands of the GOP.

    People pissed about this as well.

  69. Saudi and Israel are so different in respect to their “interests” they don’t even keep diplomatic relations with each other.

    Protecting both must be quite a trick.

  70. “I should add that after seeing that last debate and all the softball slow pitches Trump missed (and it was obvious they were going to be thrown), I am re-examining my first suspicion when he got into the race.”

    Here is a video I just ran across, a Trump endorser (but not fanboi supporter) who agrees with JudgyBitch on how the debate went down, only this is made as a prediction, before the event:

    i.e. Trump will let Hillary set the tone and terms, only going for hard punches where she invites him in.

    I don’t discount the idea that he entered the race as a doped nag, it’s a play right out of the Clinton book, but Trump is Trump. Give him a chance to put and keep his name up front in lights and he is incapable of turning that down.

    Mr. President, Donald Trump is the fantasy ending to his biography.

    Which is why I don’t distrust Trump as president, even though I dislike the man. The fantasy ending has to be leaving office well regarded by the people. Being disliked would be to lose everything in the last moment.

    So if Trump is president, it’s the American people you have to worry about.

  71. Still catching up on the comments, but I want to give a shout out to scrib on his econ 101 lectures.

    We may not always agree 100% ( but so what? ), but I dig your perspective and insight.

  72. Well since it is kinda quiet on Sunday night here, the thread was pretty much killed by Veneer by employing Godwin’s Law and Rollo is allegedly working on an essay about Marriage or LTR 3.0. I’m going to do a little bit of spamming with Deida from his book Intimate Communion.

    What prompts me to do this is my buddy that visited me yesterday at my wildlife habitat farm ran into a little buzz saw after returning home to his woman.

    This is for him. It is a call to relax, don’t try to game your woman so hard–she is getting confused by your non-congruent sub-communications as you get into red pill game. Just like a deer’s sense of smell is 100,000 times better than a humans, a woman’s ability to pick up on stuff you sub communicate is 100,000 times better than your male mastery over overt communication. Get his focus on his mission and let his woman come along with his focused mission. It’s not about her.

    I also point out that this stuff is what I believe is the essence of Blaximus’ Masculine Way. It is also stuff that I believe I have come to employ as a mindset in my masculine self improvement through manosphere red pill awareness and game.

    Warning: feel free to scroll through these four comment posts if you are not into LTR game with a woman that has value after fucking her. Or about masculine mindset in LTR game.

    <b<The Masculine Way


    Through many years as a consultant for individuals and couples, I have seen this pattern over and over: One partner in an intimacy, the one with the more Masculine sexual essence, is moved primarily by his or her direction in life, or mission. The other partner, with the more Feminine sexual essence, is moved primarily by his or her emotions in intimate relationship.

    Both partners are influenced by both factors, their direction and their intimate relationship, It’s just that the Masculine sexual essence gives priority to “life direction” and the Feminine sexual essence gives priority to “intimate relationship,”

    What I am calling “direction” here, and what might also be referred to as the Masculine’s personal “truth,” “mission,” or “goal,” is the most important thing in life to the Masculine sexual essence. Historically, the Masculine has very frequently been willing to lay down His life for the sake of truth, goal or mission.

    I have seen through the lives of my clients, time and time again, that it is only after the Masculine sexual essence is aligned with its true mission that this person was able to participate in intimacy with full commitment.


    To illuminate the Masculine way more fully, I am going to combine aspects of my relationship with my long-time intimate partner with the lessons I have learned from years of working with other couples. I will use this “combined” intimate partner, who I will call “Ophelia,” as an example of a typical partner with a Feminine sexual essence, just as I will use myself as an example of a typical partner with a Masculine sexual essence.

    In actuality, of course, each individual is unique and always changing, so the real picture of the Masculine and Feminine forces is far more complex than the relatively simple images presented here. Still, I think it is useful to consider how the Masculine and Feminine may be lost and how they may be found, even if this consideration cannot take into account the uniqueness of each and every person.

    Over and over I tried to be as concerned about our relationship as Ophelia was; but I wasn’t. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that I wasn’t concerned in the same way as she was. I was far more concerned about the direction of our lives, the big picture, than I was about how I was feeling this moment with Ophelia.

    This is not to say that I wasn’t concerned at all about our relationship. On the contrary, I thought about Ophelia more than anybody else, and of all my relationships, ours was far and away the most important. It was just that where we were going occupied my attention more than with whom I was going.

    I have come to discover that this is true for every person, man or woman, who has a Masculine sexual essence. And the more Masculine the essence, the more true it is. The core of the Masculine sexual essence is directionality, or where we are going.

    Because Ophelia did not seem to prioritize life in the same way, I began to feel like I was self-centered compared with her. It seemed that she was so concerned about me, about our relationship, but I was more concerned about what we were doing, where we were going and how I would accomplish my mission.

    Over time, though, I began to realize a more full truth: We were both self-centered. Whereas I was concerned about where we were going, both with our practice of Intimate Communion as well as with my “lifemission,” Ophelia was concerned about how she was feeling in our relationship. She was occupied with her emotions (which were tied primarily to the “tone” of our intimate relationship). I was occupied with my direction and quest (which included our relationship but also many other aspects of my life).

    The Feminine sexual essence is moved primarily by the flow of love in Her relationships, and the Masculine sexual essence is primarily concerned with His overall direction in life-that is, His goal or life-mission. In my case, this became most obvious when I was involved in a major project. If I was procrastinating or unclear of my goals with the project, then my energy was constantly sapped by my lack of clarity, and Ophelia suffered my lack of energy for our relationship. I couldn’t really be with her, fully present. Part of me was involved with the project, consciously or unconsciously, trying to work out my clarity and direction,

    However, when I was clear about my direction, then I was able to “really work when I was working” and also be completely present with Ophelia when I was with her, I didn’t have to actually complete the project before I could give undistracted love to Ophelia; I just had to be clear about my true direction and align my life with clarity and purpose. Otherwise, my Masculine sexual essence was divided. Part of me, a big part, was always distracted by a deep sense of incompleteness at my core.


    I have watched many women’s futile attempts to get their men’s attention while the “boys” are riveted to a football game on TV. “Why can’t he just talk to me for a moment?” This is the recurring question that many women have asked me about their man remaining oblivious to her beckoning during a 5o-yard field goal attempt. “Because he doesn’t even hear you,” I answer them. And I know, as does any man or woman with a Masculine sexual essence.

    For instance, a woman with a more Feminine sexual essence must learn that her man, if he has a more Masculine sexual essence, is probably not ignoring her; he is just totally focused, absorbed in a mode. In his reality, he isn’t hearing her call and then choosing to ignore her. Her voice never even registers in his conscious awareness while he is in another mode. It is as if he is asleep and dreaming. His attention is totally involved in a certain mode, a certain realm, outside of which there is nothing; he could hear his lover’s voice calling to him if she speaks loudly enough to penetrate his dream mode, but he would have to leave the dream realm to really hear her and respond-and who knows if he would ever be able to return to the same dream?

    In the same way, for anyone with a Masculine sexual essence, the waking state is divided into well-defined modes-namely realms that don’t seem penetrable from the outside. These modes can seem rather one-dimensional to the Feminine: the football mode, the business mode, the driving-the-car mode and the intimacy mode are some of these modes. The more Masculine the sexual essence, the more impervious each mode is to the outside world : “Can’t you see I’m busy? Please don’t bother me right now.”

    For the Feminine sexual essence, however, modes are not nearly as rigid. A person with a Feminine sexual essence can quite easily flow between watching TV, talking with a friend and working on It project-all at the same time. The flow of Feminine attention is fluid: “Sure I’m busy, but I don’t mind being interrupted. How are you ?”

    This is one of the Feminine’s greatest strengths-and weaknesses. She can flow from one task to another easily, and thus can also be distracted rather easily, getting absorbed in a telephone conversation or a visit with a friend rather than finishing the writing project (hat needs to be finished.

    Masculine energy, though more rigid than the Feminine, is also less distractible. Masculine modality can be a real gift. It allows a man or woman to persevere through obstacles and distractions that would veer a less Masculine person from his or her path. The extreme Masculine does whatever it takes to reach a goal without being moved from its tracks-whether that goal is watching a football game, writing a novel, making a million dollars or realizing enlightenment. This ability to achieve a goal without being distracted should be honored by both men and women as a valuable aspect of the Masculine way.

    At the same time, men and women must realize that this Masculine gift of persisting in one mode until the goal is reached-needs to be balanced by the Feminine gifts of flow and bodily sensitivity. There is a time to work, and a time to smell the roses. There is a time to remain alone in a room, focusing with total concentration, and a time to roll around in a disheveled bed, laughing and playing with your lover.

    This balance between Masculine focus and Feminine flow can be achieved in two ways: within a person, or between two partners. Usually, it is easier for a person with a more Neutral sexual essence to achieve this balance within himself or herself, alternating between work and play, between focus and laughter, between the mission and the flow of love.

    However, if your sexual essence is either toward the Masculine or toward the Feminine, it often feels more natural to trust your partner’s native gifts. After you have achieved a 50/50 wholeness on your own-that is, after you are able to be either focused in your Masculine or flowing in your Feminine-it is often very pleasurable to relax into your native pole in Intimate Communion and enjoy receiving the other side as a gift from your partner. In this way, the Feminine partner is like Hawaii and the Masculine partner is like New York, gifting each other with unique qualities of Feminine radiance and Masculine direction, respectively.


    The Masculine sexual essence is looking for trouble. That’s how it finds its purpose. It sees a problem and wants to fix it. In fact, it often sees a problem and wants to fix it even when there isn’t one.

    Once upon a time, I viewed Ophelia’s emotional states as problems to be solved. To my eyes, she would be moping around the house, so I would try to talk with her about it, asking her a lot of questions, hoping to get to the bottom of it.

    I can vividly remember one particular time that Ophelia was literally storming around the house, slamming doors, angrily bashing things around in her bedroom and the kitchen. I had been in my study working for several hours, and after a few minutes of hearing all the bangs and crashes, I came out to see what was going on. As soon as I saw Ophelia, it was obvious that she was really angry about something, so I started to ask her questions, hoping that by finding out what it was that made her angry, we could get to the bottom of it and solve the problem. My natural response in fact, my loving response-was to try to fix her.

    Ophelia, however, hated to be fixed. She didn’t like when I went into the “time to fix Ophelia” mode. In fact, the more I asked her what was wrong (“Is it because of so-and-so?”), the more angry she seemed to get.

    What she wanted was to feel my love, to feel my acceptance, to feel my caring for her-my overall embrace of her, But what she felt was my prod and poke, looking for a loose screw here, a stuck emotion there. She felt my questions, my frustration, my push to get to the bottom of her “problem.”

    Since I love Ophelia, I wanted to help her. And because I have a Masculine sexual essence, the way I tended to try to help was by trying to solve her problem. Why only give her love and acceptance when I could get to the root of the problem and solve it?

    More often than not, love and acceptance were what she wanted to feel. On this occasion, as on many others, the “problem” was simply that she wasn’t feeling my love. I was so involved in the project on which I was working that Ophelia felt like my project was more important to me than she was. But the more I tried to figure out her problem, the less she felt my love and the more she felt my analytical dissection of her life, or her “problem.” Ophelia didn’t want to be fixed; she wanted to be loved.

    So, now I have learned to give her love directly first, through my loving embrace and touch, through my loving gaze into her eyes, my loving words of praise for everything I appreciate about her. Then, after the force of love is flowing full and free between our open hearts, we can discover if there is really anything that needs to be “fixed.”

    When the Masculine truly understands the Feminine heart, He puts aside the need for questioning and problem-solving, instead embracing His intimate partner with the caring force of His love. He might sing to Her, or dance Her around the room, or gently stroke Her arm, or say how much He really loves Her; however done, He will continue to give His sensitive, persistent and playful love until Her heart opens and Her face shines with happiness. Then, if there are details in Her life or in their intimate relationship that they need to deal with, they can do so without confusion; at Her core, and in the feelingtone of their intimacy, love is flowing fully. Rather than trying to “fix” Her, he can apply His Masculine sense of mission to dealing with their lives in the world.

    It is important for men and women to realize that often the Masculine sexual essence expresses its real love by trying to solve a problem, just as the Feminine sexual essence often tries to solve a real problem by offering emotional support. Men, especially, could learn that trying to solve her “problem” does not necessarily feel like real love to a woman with a Feminine sexual essence. Women, especially, could learn that trying to offer emotional support does not necessarily solve the problems that the Masculine sexual essence is really trying to fix.

    However, we must honor these gifts as they are if we are to accept the Masculine and Feminine sexual essences as they are. The next time you feel your more Masculine partner trying to fix you, thank Him for His love and tell Him you don’t need to be analyzed right now; in this moment, for instance, you need to be hugged. Chances are, He is only loving you anyway, though expressing it in Masculine form. Over time, He will learn that what you really want is love, not fixing (although even then, He may treat His embrace of you as a way to fix your emotional problem).


    “I want out of here!” This is the essential Masculine plea. When the Masculine is in a bad mood, He wants out. He feels constrained, weary, trapped and burdened by life, responsibilities and relationships. He seeks freedom from all this “stuff” of life. He wants out.

    For a man with a strong Masculine sexual essence, life is not simply a given fact. Rather, it is a problem to be solved or an art to he mastered. It is a struggle. Therefore, when such a person feels burned out, tired and weary, His first desire is for release. He wants to get out of this “place” that requires so much work. He wants to be released from the burdens of life and relationship, for example through beer, TV, philosophy or meditation.

    In intimate relationship, this tendency to want “out” can be misunderstood. For instance, a woman with a more Feminine sexual essence is tending to either doubt love or enjoy love. So when her partner wants out, she immediately assumes that he doesn’t love her, and that is why he wants out. But very often, he does love her. Ile isjust feeling trapped by the constraints of life, and so he is reacting to the feeling of being burdened by wanting out. He wants to feel release-not necessarily an end to his intimate relationship.

    The Masculine tends to feel trapped when He is in a had mood. He tends to feel trapped by life and relationship; that is, by the Feminine aspects of the world. Therefore, the Masculine tends to blame the Feminine for His feeling of constraint. He seeks release from this constraint and often tries to find this release by getting away from the Feminine, or by blaming Her or abusing Her in some way.

    Just as the Feminine in a bad mood will always tend to feel unloved by the Masculine, the Masculine will always tend to feel burdened or constrained by the Feminine. The Feminine seeks more union with the Masculine in an effort to relieve Her sense of being unloved. The Masculine seeks release from constraint in order to relieve His sense of being weary and burdened. All relationships between a more Feminine person and a more Masculine person will include this drama: the Feminine seeking to fill Her sense of emptiness and the Masculine seeking to release Himself from constraints.


    The Masculine likes the edge. Even as a form of relaxation, even as a form of recreation, the Masculine often prefers a challenge to a free ride. Driving the car a little faster than necessary. Watching boxing matches, football games and action movies. Competing on the tennis court, the backgammon board and at the poker table.

    This is not because the Masculine always has to prove Himself, or because “men enjoy violence.” It is because the Masculine comes alive at the edge, when challenged.

    If I am in my Masculine energy, I don’t like watching boxing matches because I like to see men get hurt; I like boxing matches because two men are competing with themselves and with each other, completely at their edge-the slightest loss of edge and the feedback is immediate. I don’t like cop movies because I like to see people get shot. I like cop movies because they are usually stories of men taking on a challenge that demands their absolute best and tests their edge. They either meet the challenge by going beyond themselves and exceeding their personal limitations, or they die.

    People who have an extremely Masculine sexual essence don’t compete with each other in order to see who is better; they compete because they like competition itself. They like to test themselves. They like being on the edge.

    This is where the Masculine flowers: at the edge. This is where the Masculine feels His purity: at the edge. This is where the Masculine discovers His real strengths and His real limitations: at the edge.

    For boys transitioning into manhood, many cultures around the world and throughout history have provided an initiation ritual. This initiation virtually always involves the boy’s edge being tested. It may involve him going out into the jungle by himself, stalking and then killing a tiger, or else not coming back at all, It may involve long periods of fasting, or wandering, or bodily mutilation, or terror.

    In virtually every case, at the initiation rite’s core is the boy’s confrontation with personal limitation, with possible death, with inevitable fear. Here, he discovers the core of his true Masculine sexual essence, the part of him that really comes alive at the edge: his source of unshakable confidence in his ability to face-without collapsing-the real confrontations of life as well as his own limitations.

    Such a boy, having passed through this initiation, can stand erect, whole, strong and open-hearted, knowing both the reality of his limitations and the reality of his deep resources. Even in the midst of fear, he has discovered that he has a tremendous capacity, far beyond his conventional assumptions, to live at the edge, or die trying. And because he has tasted his limitations, he knows that one day, he will, indeed, die, and so will everybody he knows. His confidence and Masculine power are grounded in this humbling reality, and therefore his strength is tempered with true compassion.

    He has both exceeded himself in victory and also knows that, in truth, he is not ultimately the victorious one. It is at his edge that the realization of authentic confidence and true surrender becomes most profound. And it is to this edge that the Masculine continues to return, whenever such a realization needs to be had.

    In our modern culture, we have very few real challenges for which a man could honorably risk his life and taste the vivid exposure of his essential courage and compassion-his ability to offer his all at the edge of infinity. As a modern culture, we have war. We have the financial arena, wherein a man’s financial life or death can be at stake (and often a man will act as if his financial life is his life). And we have sports-rituals of challenge in which heroes are the ones who really go beyond themselves, who can go beyond even what is considered possible. Those who can take the pressure and excel, who can “survive” the unpredictable and often dangerous challenge on the field, are accorded the benefits all Masculine heroes of all time have been accorded: money, women and glory.

    But heroes, too, die. So the true Masculine hero holds onto nothing, abiding in the ecstasy of ungraspable infinity, not the pumped-up fullness of temporary accomplishment or victory.


    To better understand the Masculine’s native gift in the practice of Intimate Communion, we must first understand the dis-ease that plagues modern men. Many men today have lost touch with their sexual essence. They may appear competent enough, but at their core they are weakened. They have lost touch with their humor and their certainty, in love and life. They have become uncommitted and undirected, or have adopted a false mission in order to make money or distract themselves from their underlying fear.

    A key aspect of the Masculine sexual essence is its sense of true direction, or mission, in life. Thus, a man who has lost touch with his Masculine sexual essence becomes undirected and ambiguous at his core, and he seeks a mission in external sources. His life may begin to revolve around a football team, a business enterprise or a political cause. He may become obsessed with himself, with his personal projects and even his car; but at his core, he is lost.

    In his deepest thoughts, he knows he has swerved from his course of true integrity. Such a man will only be able to give ambiguous love, for he fears that a commitment with a woman may cost him the freedom to do what he really wants to do when the time comes to do it. Therefore, it is necessary for a man to find his strong and true purpose, and align his life with integrity, before he is really capable of being fully present in intimate relationship.


    When the partner playing the Masculine pole in an intimacy does not animate the native directionality of the Masculine, the more Feminine partner begins to lose trust, and the passion in their intimacy diminishes. For example, if a man becomes too ambiguous, too wishywashy or weak in his direction, his woman may begin to feel disappointed, or even angry at him, though she may still love him.

    It should be obvious that although love is enough for a fulfilling friendship, love is not enough for a fulfilling emotional and sexual intimacy. Many times I have heard a concerned woman or man say, “I love my intimate partner, but it just feels like something is missing.” That “something” is quite often the full flow of polarity between Masculine and Feminine sexual essences.

    When two people commit to the practice of Intimate Communion, they are no longer merely responsible for themselves. They are also responsible for contributing their gifts in the ongoing practice of intimacy. This responsibility is not a moral sense of duty, nor is it part of a legal contract. It is the responsibility inherent in love-the same responsibility that moves us, quite naturally, to serve anyone we love, like our children or our friends. In Intimate Communion, we commit ourselves to practicing such service in emotional and sexual union with our intimate partners, just as in a 50/50 Relationship we commit ourselves to practicing selfresponsibility and not becoming dependent on our partner.

    The Masculine gift of directionality, which maybe either present or lacking in intimacy, looks very different in each stage of relationship. In a Dependence Relationship, first-stage directionality is often expressed as a financial quest. The more Masculine partner is expected to “provide for the family” and to “put the bread on the table.” In a Dependence Relationship, a woman may feel that her man depends on her to be always nurturing and sexy, and a man may feel that his woman depends on him to be always successful and strong in the world. And, in such a Dependence Relationship, their feelings may be correct. They may, in fact, depend on each other for sex or money because neither of them are yet whole in themselves.

    In a 50/50 Relationship, two whole and independent people place more emphasis on creativity than on the accumulation of finances. Someone with an attractive second-stage Masculine is someone who knows how to create a good life. This probably includes stable finances, but may also include artistic creativity or the desire to improve the quality of life in many ways: community life, intellectual life, political life and spiritual life. The emphasis in a 50/50 Relationship is on getting better, rather than on getting more. Therefore, the second-stage Masculine’s ability to “cut through” and persevere toward a creative goal is highly valued.

    In the practice of Intimate Communion, appearance, finances and creative talents are still important, but the most important criterion of a potential intimate partner is his or her ability to practice spiritual maturity, rather than physical, financial and creative maturity. In Intimate Communion, the Masculine is valued for His ability to bloom any moment into love, even a difficult moment. The third-stage Masculine may use any means, from humor to anger to sensitive touching, but His communication is always the same: “Let’s face this moment without turning away. Let’s be fully present in direct relationship with one another. Let’s allow the spacious love in our hearts to dissolve our resistance so that we may breathe fully and relax into our natural openness together.”

    To offer this kind of third-stage Masculine gift, a man or woman must be aligned with his or her highest priority, moment by moment, rather than be weak and ambiguous in intent. Only then is a person with a Masculine sexual essence capable of being fully present in intimacy without being distracted by his or her unfinished business. And only an undistracted Masculine partner can fully “touch” the Feminine partner’s deepest heart-desires with steady and loving Masculine presence.


    At one point in my life, I had finished with a major scientific research project, and I was emptied of purpose. Having finished with something that occupied me for years, my life was no longer driven by the same engine. That particular motive had exhausted itself after coming to fruition for me. I didn’t know what to do with my day-today life.

    I wasn’t confused at all. I simply had finished my business, and no other business made itself obvious. The core of my life has always been spiritual practice-understanding myself and growing beyond fear into greater love-but the everyday details of my life change over the years, as do everyone’s. And at this point, it was not obvious what the daily routine of my life was going to be, now that I had finished the project I had been working on for years.

    So, what did I do? Did I spend more time with Ophelia now that my work was complete? No. I went into a mountain monastery in the South of France to practice intensive meditation. I was sealed in a small cell with a mattress, a meditation cushion and a toilet, and once a day, food was placed on a shelf I could reach from the window. I would stay in that cell, contemplating the nature of consciousness, until it became obvious I had other business to attend to.

    Meanwhile, in California, Ophelia was growing concerned. Did I still love her? After all, there I was, sequestered alone, thousands of miles from her. Over the weeks, she created a scenario in her mind in which I no longer loved her. She grew frustrated and angry toward me.

    I was really enjoying my time in the monastery, and I was also loving and missing Ophelia. In fact, even though I had remained in silence for the better part of a month, on her birthday I arranged for a remote telephone to be brought to my monastery cell so that I could wish her a happy birthday from across the earth. I dialed her number and waited to hear her sweet voice.

    “Hello?” Ophelia answered.

    “Hello, love! Happy birthday!” I greeted her warmly.

    “Hello,” she said, rather curtly.

    “Ophelia, are you okay ?” I wondered.

    “No. I’m not. What do you expect?” she answered.

    As the strange conversation went on, it became clear that in my absence she had conjured a feeling that I no longer loved her, and then responded to my “abandonment” with anger. All the while, I was enjoying deep meditation in the monastery, and certainly not abandoning Ophelia in my heart-although, obviously, I was choosing to be apart from her physically for this period. Ophelia felt like I was just choosing to be apart from her for the sake of being away from her; she felt I was rejecting her.

    To someone with a Masculine sexual essence such as mine, choosing to be apart from my woman is rarely a rejection of her, but more often reflects a need to discover something on my own. The Masculine sexual essence most often discovers itself in solitude, rather than with an intimate partner.

    Periodically, a man (or woman) with a Masculine sexual essence realizes that his life has become cluttered with unauthentic burdens, obligations and habits. In order to purify himself of a false life, he often must temporarily abandon all habitual relations in order to find his true core, the core with which he has lost touch. He most often discovers his true core in solitude, or in the company of other men (or people with a Masculine sexual essence).

    The Feminine sexual essence often prefers emotional support and loving company during times of crises and life-change (and sometimes the Masculine does, too). But more often, a man (or woman) with a Masculine sexual essence needs to let goof everything old, rediscover his true purpose and authentic way of life, and then re-engage his relationships in a new and refreshed way.

    Our culture does not really allow people to do this; therefore, we have the so-called “mid-life crisis.” During a typical mid-life crisis, a man begins to feel that he is in an unauthentic situation. He no longer feels authentic in his job, in his intimacy, with his family and friends. The only real option that our culture offers is quitting or changing jobs, getting a divorce and moving to another part of town-which are just what men often do during a mid-life crisis,

    But if we honored that the Masculine discovers Himself in solitude, we would support men (or anyone with such a need) to temporarily abandon their worldly responsibilities, including their intimate relationship, and commit all of their energy and attention to rediscovering their true purpose, their authentic way of life. Then they could return to their family and intimates renewed and refreshed-full with their heart’s desire. Or perhaps they would discover that they needed to change their intimacy in order to live an authentic life.

    In any case, a man returns from a successful “vision quest” full of authentic commitment and inner integrity. Such a man’s choices are aligned with his true desires, and so whatever he chooses to do will ring of truth, rather than be driven by old habit or fear.

    It is important that people with a more Feminine sexual essence come to understand this Masculine need. If this need is not met, then the man will seek to “refresh” his Masculine core in some other, less permanent, ways.

    He may seek a sexual affair, frequently with a younger woman who is “fresh” and “alive” (who appreciates and trusts his “manhood”)-the very qualities that he would discover for himself, in a much deeper way, if he were to engage in a successful vision quest or retreat.

    Surprisingly, the Masculine best achieves clarity about what He wants in an intimate relationship when He is on His own, outside of the intimate relationship! Most men discover their authentic desires in solitude, or perhaps while being challenged and supported by other men. Then they can re-enter the play of intimacy and express their love, now that they are refreshed.

    In my own life, I have found that when I am feeling dissatisfied with my intimate relationship, it is virtually always because I have lost touch with my true purpose. When my life veers from authenticity, all of my life feels false, including my intimacy. The solution is not to end my intimacy because it no longer feels alive. The solution is to rediscover my core desires, my authentic purpose and my direction.

    I do this best in solitude, or with other men who are doing the same. Then, having realigned my life, I can return to my intimacy refreshed. I no longer am looking for Ophelia to make my intimate life authentic. Rather, everything I do is now drenched in authenticity and integrity. I return to Ophelia to discover whether or not our relationship-our new and present relationship-is congruent with my deeply felt sense of authenticity.

    I have always found that my relationship with Ophelia takes a quantum leap after these periods of solitude or vision questing. Our old patterns are gone. We see each other with new eyes. I am full of authentic direction and clarity. And when I embrace Ophelia, I do so because I really choose to do so, because my love for her is strong, not because we just happen to be intimate partners.

    If more men and women understood this process, I am sure there would be a lower incidence of divorce. If you have a Masculine sexual essence and you feel like your life and intimacy are no longer authentic, and you notice yourself attracted to more “refreshing” Feminine forms, do not get a divorce ! Instead, take care of your business and arrange for a real vision quest. Don’t just leave your family and goof off, Rather, liberate yourself from all your worldly obligations and commit every ounce of your energy and attention to discovering your authentic vision of life.

    Do whatever it takes. Rent a cabin in the mountains and remain in contemplative silence. Join a men’s group committed to discovering authenticity. Fast and chant for days on end, like American Indians do. Wander the countryside while contemplating your true nature, like Hindu sannyasins do. Study scriptures like priests and rabbis do. Go on a fishing trip with your men friends, and seriously consider what the hell you are doing with your life!

    Whatever you do, don’t return until you can do so with authenticity. Then align your life and your relationships with your sense of authenticity. Allow what is no longer appropriate in your life to fall away. Whatever you do discover to be part of your authentic life, embrace without hesitation. Find out if you can create an authentic intimacy with your partner, now that you have planted your staff of clarity in the ground of your true purpose. If you can, then do it for real. If you can’t, end it for real, and do whatever most serves your growth.

    Remember that true growth is always marked by increased openness and ability to love. If it is time for your intimate partnership to come to an end because you have outgrown it, then you will most likely feel a mixture of pain, grief, sadness and love, as if your lover had died. If, however, your intimacy ends with much conflict, hardness, emotional closure and lack of communication, then you have probably not outgrown your relationship; you are just bailing. Don’t leave a relationship until it falls away from you in love, if that is possible for you.

    Anyone with a Masculine sexual essence must temporarily leave the daily habits of an intimate relationship in order to rediscover its own authenticity. As men and women, we must learn to allow and even support this need. With proper guidance, men don’t necessarily need to get divorced or find a younger girlfriend in order to feel alive. They just need to rediscover their reason to live, their true purpose, their real heart’s desire. If we can encourage and guide this process with humor and care, we can move our intimate relationships to their next step.

    It is important, though, to discriminate between a true quest and the desire to merely shirk commitment and responsibility. When is a man merely running away? Hiding? Escaping from his past, his burdens, which he himself has created?

    When a man seeks isolation in order to create more comfort in his life, he is probably hiding. A true vision quest is not comfortable at all. A true vision quest is an ordeal. It involves facing your real fears as well as your real desires. When a man is on an authentic vision quest, he is stripped of all distraction and faces the true color of his bones, the true sound of his heart, alone, without work or woman to occupy him.

    However, when a man leaves an unpleasant situation to enjoy the immunity of solitude, he is only escaping growth. He is avoiding responsibility. He may think he is starting over, but nothing has really changed. He is just removing himself from the game he is already failing.

    A true vision quest involves leaving the usual games of life, such as work and intimacy, long enough to reconnect with the authentic desires at your core, your real direction in life. Then you can return to the games of life and transform them into expressions of your highest gift.

    A false escape from responsibility involves removing yourself from pain and constraint and seeking an easier situation with less pressure, perhaps by entering a new relationship or changing jobs. You have merely traded games; you haven’t transformed the game of your life into an artful expression of your real gift.

    A true vision quest cuts through the accumulated fat of unauthentic responsibility and motivation to reveal the moist certainty of your real heart, which can then shine through the game of your life and illuminate every step you take with the authentic light of your highest gift.

    A false escape is more like changing clothes, refreshing you somewhat but not really changing your presence in the world or transforming the way you play the game.

    In authentic solitude, or in the company of other dedicated men, the Masculine is stripped to its heart and bone. Here, a man (or woman) can discover his true purpose without distraction or consolation. Then, putting his flesh hack on, returning to the daily game of work and relationship, he is centered in his own heart, and the concentric circles of his certainty and openness emanate outward, encompassing his career, his woman, his children and his every choice in life.


    At a party, it is not unusual for women to want to dance and for men to want to sit and watch, or talk seriously with one another while the women are going wild on the dance floor. The Feminine is in life and wants to move with the energies of life. The Masculine is traiiseerrdent d to life, and wants to be free of life, outside of it, watching it perhaps, but not caught up in the chaos and flow that seems so native to the Feminine sexual essence.

    In a first-stage moment, a man (or woman) with a Masculine sexual essence transcends life by avoiding emotions and attempting to stand above his partner and the now of life. He doesn’t want to get involved. He would rather watch TV and read the newspaper than talk with his woman. He would prefer to enjoy the realm of “perfection”-the perfect basketball shot, the perfectly answered crossword puzzlethan the “imperfect” realm of relationship, emotion and life. While his woman sips champagne to enjoy the dance of life more, he guzzles beer to numb himself to the hell in which he feels trapped.

    A first-stage man may express his transcendental perspective by wearing a T shirt that says, “Life sucks, and then you die.” Of course, to some extent, he is right. Even the Buddha taught that life is suffering and impermanent-but then he also taught how to realize the truth of timeless freedom, not just how to drink beer and temporarily escape the pain.

    Unlike the first-stage man, the second-stage man transcends life by worshiping mind. He loves to think about things, as if there were an answer to life that could be formulated through thought. He loves to question life and entertain various concepts, perspectives and philosophies. The second-stage man enjoys serious conversation, and often chooses an intimate partner based on shared philosophies and outlooks on life. He loves the “perfection” of good art, a fine bottle of wine and an elegant theory.

    The second-stage man often attempts to create a personal realm of perfection, a Garden of Eden on earth. He may become involved in politics, or create a community where like-minded people can live together, or renovate a beach house where he can retreat in his personally designed paradise of comfort.

    Furthermore, the second-stage man is either struggling with trying to figure it all out, or thinks that he has figured it out. He may wear many T-shirts that express his transcendence, his ability to rise above : “Life’s a Beach”; “Visualize Peace”; “Question Authority”; or “Live Your Dream.”

    The third-stage man transcends life by realizing his true nature as well as the true nature of life itself. Although he may work to improve life, his moment-to-moment practice is to recognize life’s inherent perfection-not in the details, but in the “perfect” witness of life itself: consciousness. He may say, “Life sucks,” and then smile broadly. He may say, “Life’s a beach,” while remembering and empathizing with the millions of starving people who suffer each day on earth. The thirdstage man experiences life as a temporary school, a place where each of us can learn to love fully and let go fully.

    Of course life sucks; the third-stage question is, can you feel your true nature, the inherent perfection of consciousness, and thus transcend the suffering inherent in a place where everybody dies? Of course you can work to create a comfortable utopia on earth; the thirdstage question is, can you also feel the tremendous suffering on earth with an open heart? Can you creatively improve life circumstances and still love without self-protection?

    A third-stage man might wear a T-shirt that says, “Already free.” He practices finding his happiness prior to his experiences, transcendental to life, yet inclusive of life. He recognizes that life is what it is: half pleasure and half pain, if you are relatively lucky. And even so, what is born eventually dies, maybe sooner, maybe later. What you can create can be destroyed-will be destroyed. This is the reality of life.

    A third-stage man realizes that it is ultimately fruitless to try to escape life and relationship, or to try to improve life and relationship, as if such improvement will lead to true happiness.

    In a third-stage moment, you realize that you cannot find truth either in the world and relationships, or out of the world and relationships. However, you can relax into and as your true nature, which is happiness-whether or not your world or relationships are pleasant. Your true nature is already free, already transcendental, already happy, already loving.

    Liberated in the truth of his own being, a third-stage man might still renovate a beach house or go out drinking with his friends; but he won’t be seeking happiness by such activities. He will be expressing happiness. He is already rested in transcendental happiness, in his true nature, in the space of awareness that always is, regardless of the flavor of experience.


    In the movie Casablanca, Humphrey Bogart’s character was saying good-bye to the woman he loved, but whom he would never see again, as she was about to board a plane. He was obviously suffering, obviously in love, obviously wishing they could live together forever. But circumstances necessitated her departure. Bogart’s character knew this. And he accepted this fate, even as his heart was an open wound.

    In this moment, he lent his Masculine transcendence to the woman he loved, whom he would never see again. He said something like, “You and me don’t add up to a hill of beans.”

    This is a quintessential expression of Masculine transcendence. Our personal experience doesn’t mean anything in the scheme of the universe. Our intimate relationships, which seem so important to us, are barely a flash of dim light in the total radiance of the cosmos. Even all of humanity is but a moment; it will all come to naught in the eventual explosion of the sun.

    Life doesn’t amount to a hill of beans.

    A first-stage man suffers this realization and tries to temporarily escape his pain through TV, alcohol, cigarettes, sex or work.

    A second-stage man suffers this realization and works to improve his life through increasing his knowledge or building a creative and comfortable living situation. Life may not amount to a hill of beans, but he is going to try to find some answers, or at least enjoy the goods of life while it lasts.

    A third-stage man suffers this realization and no longer seeks happiness by trying to gain knowledge or experience. Through suffering, he has gradually realized the futility of such seeking. Through grace, he has glimpsed his true nature, which is also the nature of the world, the spacious awareness and energy that transcends the particularities of life. He practices the moment-to-moment remembrance of that which already transcends the ups and downs of life. And he realizes that who he is, is already that one. He is already free.

    When you wear a wristwatch all the time, it is easy to forget it. After a while, you are no longer aware of it on your arm. Because it is an unchanging aspect of your experience, you don’t notice it. In the same way, who you are is who you always are, and is therefore very easy to forget. You-whoever you really are are an absolute constant in your experience, and therefore go unnoticed, like a watch you always wear on your wrist.

    However, when you finally do feel who you are, you realize that what you have always sought is actually who you always already are. Once you wake up to your true nature, you can begin the practice of remembering who you are, recognizing your true nature, whether your experience of life is presently pleasurable or painful. And you realize the transcendental perfection of your true nature is what you have been trying to replicate through drunken oblivion, TV absorption, deep intimacy, peaceful politics or a beautiful house on the beach.

    A third-stage man practices the moment-to-moment recognition of his transcendental nature, who he truly is all the time, regardless of how big or beautiful his hill of beans.

    This expression of the transcendental Masculine sexual essence is something a “Saint Bogart” would say. And that’s why this scene in Casablanca is so memorable to so many people. Love transcends relationship. “I love you” is simply true, even if the heart is broken by the inevitable ending of relationship. The third-stage Masculine sexual essence is able to stand free and loving in the midst of such incidents, transcending such incidents in open awareness and love.

    In Intimate Communion, the Feminine often teaches the Masculine that it is possible to be totally free and loving within life and relationship: She demonstrates that you don’t need to get out of life and relationship to be truly happy.

    The Masculine often teaches the Feminine that it is possible to be totally free and loving whether or not life and relationship continue: He demonstrates that you don’t need to hold onto life and relationship to be truly happy.


    Throughout history and around the world, men’s clubs have sought to create a “pure” place, undisturbed by attractive, wild and chaotic Feminine energy. Historically, the academic “ivory tower” was a men’s club, where the pure forms of ideas, mathematics, theories and concepts reigned supreme. Women have also been historically excluded from many spiritual men’s clubs populated by Christian priests, Zen Buddhist monks, Hindu swamis and Jewish rabbis. These gatherings have always been characterized by a sense of purity, perfection and mystical transcendence. That is, they have approximated the unchanging stillness of death or the “beyond” more than the ever-changing unpredictability of life.

    Of course, there have been clubs and goddess-cultures that have embraced both the Masculine and Feminine-both the deathlike and lifelike aspects of experience. I am only pointing out this observation: Those clubs that have excluded women have traditionally been dominated by the Masculine preference for non-change and perfection. That is, they have sought to re-create on earth a stark and formal version of that which transcends life on earth: death, or that which is beyond life.

    The Masculine sexual essence is at home in death. It sometimes even courts death, both of itself and of others, as a form of pleasure: hunting, warring, race-car driving, etc. And if the Masculine sexual essence is not courting literal death, it is often courting a mystical death, an ego death, the ending of desire through spiritual practice.

    Furthermore, even when a man (or anyone with a Masculine sexual essence) is strongly involved in life and relationship, he still seeks to recreate “death.” In sex, he looks forward to that “little death” of orgasm, after which he can lie in a state of peace, free of desire, and fall asleep into sweet nothingness (often to his woman’s dismay). In finances, he looks forward to “making a killing.” In football, he hopes that his team “murders” the other on the field.

    When men drink alcohol, it is often in an effort to create a feeling of oblivion, happy release and death-like bliss, rather than to enjoy the sensations of life more. It is a male ritual around the world to gather together and use some drug to the point of “losing it.” In fact, such drug or alcohol use is often a kind of Masculine initiation, dividing the men from the boys. Who can be “at home” as the mind dissolves, the body numbs, and a death-like state of happy release from life approaches?

    The first-stage Masculine is addicted to the non-responsible “freedom” of death, whether brought on by the bottle, the needle, the TV or the orgasm.

    The second-stage Masculine is often tempered by the inner Feminine and thus does not admit His desire for the extreme death-like state. He often settles for virtual disembodiment: the world of heady theories rather than bodily sensuality, the realm of thinking rather than the realm of feeling. The second-stage Masculine often prefers good conversation to football, “sharing” to “wild” sex.

    The third-stage Masculine is committed to practicing “death” while alive. That is, whether engaged in life or not, He remains aware of that which transcends life. Whether having sex or not, He remains full in the bliss that transcends bodily sensations. Whether in relationship or not, He is already free, as if already dead, fully responsive in relationship but deeply indifferent at the same time. A third-stage man practices the recognition of consciousness. He recognizes that consciousness is his true nature. It is that which is always true, always present, unaffected by experience and changeless even as his life continues to change.

    Recognizing his true nature as consciousness, the mature third-stage man is already free, as if already dead, even while engaged in the play of life. He is already full before, during and after sex. He is already at peace, whether winning or losing the current game. Death is his homenot the empty death of denial, but the spacious, undefined infinity of perfect openness, “unclinging” awareness and unthreatened love.

    This is the same “space” that the first-stage Masculine attempts to approximate through alcohol and orgasm, and the second-stage Masculine attempts to approximate through thinking and creative adventure. All men are only seeking to approximate whatever glimpse of perfection, of truth, of spacious peace, that they first experienced. They may try through money, sex, knowledge and creativity, but they will fail to re-create it.

    They will fail because it cannot be created; it can only be recognized. It is already their true nature and their core. They are the spaciousness, the vastness, that they seek to experience through all the little deaths and releases they continually arrange for themselves. The third-stage man knows this, and thus practices the direct recognition of the part of him that is already dead, already indifferent, because it is already only witnessing life, never threatened or changed by life. Then, he practices remembering that part of him, relaxing into it, being it, even while lovingly embracing life.

    Eventually he realizes he has always only been that one, that consciousness, already free of birth, change and death. Then he has truly relaxed in his home, as his home. The pleasurable sense of release he has experienced through beer, orgasm or thinking is just a tiny experience of the home he truly craves-the home where, paradoxically, he is already. In the third stage, he simply practices relaxing beyond his attention enough to recognize it,


    Just as the Feminine learns the truth of love, stage by stage, the Masculine learns the truth of death. Stage by stage, He courts the edge and learns to transcend His fear of loss and death.

    The first-stage Masculine edge is experienced during a challenge with an outer opponent, an “other”: other stockbrokers, other football players, other chess masters, other countries. The object is to be a winner rather than a loser.

    The second-stage Masculine edge is experienced during a challenge with your self: fighting your own inner demons, facing your own dark side and discovering your true inner resources. The object is to emerge a master of your own life.

    The third-stage Masculine edge is experienced during a challenge of self-sacrifice: The point is not to survive, not to win and not to become a master of your own life, but to discover that which cannot die. You are not struggling to be victorious over an outer opponent or an inner demon; you are struggling with your own illusion that you can be victorious.

    The third-stage Masculine hero is one who has “already died,” who is completely willing to relax as the consciousness beyond the arising experiences of life and so no longer has anything fundamentally to lose, or to gain, by life. Therefore, this Masculine hero is truly free. His freedom is not limited to the football field or the arena of His own psyche; He has realized Freedom itself. He has realized his true nature: who He is before any particular experience comes, and after any particular experience goes.

    Until a man (or woman) has recognized his true nature, he will always seek elsewhere for a sense of freedom. He will rationalize, “After I have enough money in the bank to live off the interest, then I will feel free.” Or, “After I truly understand my psyche and write a book about it, then I will feel free.”

    But true freedom, the only freedom that cannot be threatened, is inherent to our being. In any moment, all we have to do is know who we are and we will know that who we are is never confined or threatened by experience, but only witnessing experience, no matter how pleasurable or painful such experience may be. We are already free, right now, in this moment-but we only know this freedom when we know who we are, who we always are, rather than getting lost in the details of the moment. And this ability to know who “I am” is what we cultivate in the practice of Intimate Communion.

    The Feminine struggles to find love. In the first stage, She looks outwardly for another to love Her in a Dependence Relationship. In the second stage, She looks inwardly to give herself the love she wants, in a 50/50 Relationship with a partner who is doing likewise. Finally, in the third stage, She discovers that when She is not looking for love She can relax as love-and then practice being love in Intimate Communion.

    The Masculine struggles to find freedom, and this struggle usually takes place at his edge. In the first stage, He attempts to find freedom by facing outward and mastering His financial edge. In the second stage, He seeks freedom by turning inward and attempting to master His psychological edges, His personal fears and His inner demons.

    Finally, in the third stage, He realizes that His edge is an illusion. In fact, He is an illusion. Now, His edge is the practice of this realization, the moment-to-moment recognition that His essential fear-death-is based on a false presumption : that He is a separate something that can die.

    In the practice of Intimate Communion, the Feminine realizes that whether She feels loved or not, She can always give love; that, in fact, She is love, although Her emotional clouds may be obscuring Her true nature, just like the sun’s constant shine may be temporarily obscured by clouds. Therefore, in Intimate Communion, the Feminine gift is the gift of love, and this gift must be practiced.

    In the practice of Intimate Communion, the Masculine realizes that whether He succeeds or fails in life, He is free; in fact, His true nature is freedom itself. He realizes that his thoughts and experiences come and go, and that He is always the witness of them, and always has been. He realizes that His true nature as consciousness always remains unaffected by experience, and this is obvious in any moment He remembers or recognizes His true nature. When He forgets His true nature and begins to mistake Himself for something that he experiences-such as His experience of money or creativity-then He suffers the inevitable pain of loss, since any experience that can be gained can also be lost.

    In Intimate Communion, the Masculine gift is freedom and the Feminine gift is love, whether given by a woman or a man. The Masculine practices by realizing His true nature in spite of His experiences of gain and loss. This practice is His “edge.” The Feminine practices the remembrance of love, surrendering into Her true nature as love, in spite of Her experiences of love and rejection.

  76. @scrib: I’m not afraid of hard work. I’m not exaggerating when I say I’ve been working since I was eight. I welcome a kind of leveling. I truly believe that we are becoming an inferior species in all kinds of ways due to our ability to, say, circumvent God by using bc and ivf. These “advancements” are actually degrading our genetic quality.

    We live in a world where it might cost a thousand dollars for a dog to have minor surgery, whereas it’s less than a hundred to put him down. My issue with the current state of things (and the crux of the men’s rights thesis) is that legal tender has replaced the inherent value of man.

  77. ” . . . legal tender has replaced the inherent value of man.”

    The immediate problem that Scribbler is addressing is that legal tender has replaced the inherent value of money.

  78. SJF

    “THE MASCULINE IS MODALdirection in life-that is, His goal or life-mission. In my case, this became most obvious when I was involved in a major project. If I was procrastinating or unclear of my goals with the project, then my energy was constantly sapped by my lack of clarity, and Ophelia suffered my lack of energy for our relationship. I couldn’t really be with her, fully present. Part of me was involved with the project, consciously or unconsciously, trying to work out my clarity and direction,

    However, when I was clear about my direction, then I was able to “really work when I was working” and also be completely present with Ophelia when I was with her, I didn’t have to actually complete the project before I could give undistracted love to Ophelia; I just had to be clear about my true direction and align my life with clarity and purpose. Otherwise, my Masculine sexual essence was divided. Part of me, a big part, was always distracted by a deep sense of incompleteness at my core.”

    Great stuff here,this explains a loss of frame,as man is constantly overwhelmed in a forward struggle to provide,the woman picks up on this.We are always learning new skills,meeting new challenges,constantly pushing ourselves to new heights,or going stagnate and falling behind.
    Never let them see you sweat.

  79. @Rollo
    “The problem I have in YaReally’s idea for pLTRs is that even in a relationship where a woman is the “primary” she still has options, she still has orbiters, she still has a sense that she controls you personally and financially because of it.”

    She will ALWAYS have that, in ANY type of relationship, in 2016. But you yourself promote dread game, MMSL (before he became purple pill, the plan he lays out at least), non-outcome-dependence, MPO, being able to toss her shit on the front lawn, preselection, jealousy, etc…ALL of that stuff is neutered in a legal monongamous arrangement and enhanced in a pLTR.

    If you disagree with that the you are disagreeing with the stuff you’ve been laying out for 5 years.

    You CAN’T say “dread game helps keep a woman attracted” and then say “but an arrangement that makes it harder for a man to execute dread game is better for keeping a woman attracted than an arrangement that makes it easier for him to execute dread game”.

    You CAN’T say “monogamy is better for men” when you yourself have written about how love is not unconditional, you can’t neogotiate attraction, Hypergamy doesn’t care about monogamy, etc which means monogamy has NO RELEVANCE to her staying attracted and, as discussed repeatedly with dread game, jealousy, outcome independence, etc, a pLTR makes it EASIER to trigger the things that DO cause attraction.

    You’re throwing out everything you’ve written about for the sake of clinging to your social conditioning that engrained in you that “mongamy is just better BECAUSE”. This is the equivalent of feminists seeing and reporting on wage gap stats being a myth and then going “…but we’re still getting paid less because we just ARE okay???” It’s feels-based reasoning because you are still running on social conditioning.

    “You correct a woman when she is so enamored with you she willingly deletes her social media and the thought of an orbiter never registers for her.”

    She will NOT DELETE HER SOCIAL MEDIA FOR ANY MAN AND ORBITERS WILL ALWAYS EXIST in 2016 is what we are trying to tell you.

    You guys are running with an outdated fantasy that if you’re just high value enough she’ll be 100% enraptured by you. That’s like saying someone who loves ice cream will just never ever even LOOK at other food ever again or ever want to taste any other food ever again no matter what and even though they have 50000000 offers a day of delicious food at their door they’ll just never answer the door because they’re SO ENAMORED WITH ICE CREAM that they’ll move to another house to escape all the free offers that THEY don’t even see as a bad thing.

    That’s a fantasy land. That doesn’t exist anymore. Social media will not go away, girls will not throw away their smartphones and delete all their social connections for a guy. Not in 2016. Not even for Brad Pitt. You guys act like you promise a girl monogamy/marriage and she’s like “YAY NOW I HAVE A MAN ON LOCKDOWN I’M DELETING ALL MY OTHER OPTIONS!” That’s fucking delusional fantasy-land shit now.

    PRE-social media/smartphones, or pre-internet, aka your guys’ day, ya this was probably pretty possible. Women only had to turn down a handful of offers/orbiters and just not pro-actively go out seeking dick. Pre-Internet if they sat in their bedroom there was maybe a guy phoning them or an orbiter knocking on their door but that’s about it. But in 2016 a <25yo 8+/10 that girl WAKES UP to 50 txts without making ANY kind of effort whatsoever, she's BOMBARDED with this shit.

    You guys just don't get how much the world has changed out there so you have no frame of reference for any of this. You need to try to monogamously LTR some <25yo 8+/10s like tons of red pill/PUA/Manosphere guys are trying to do. This is like trying to describe ice to guys who've never seen it before.

    "The problem with a pLTR is that most men cannot reach that sweet spot."

    Then we work on teaching them how and teach them more efficiently and guide them. 15 years ago people said "the problem with PUA is that most men cannot learn to attract women", if we let that stop us we would be nowhere.

    "My issue is that the combination of women’s inexhaustible options, innate solipsism and Hypergamous doubt, and men’s inability to meet an SMV degree that is constantly progressing, that deep conversion is something most men will never achieve."

    Agreed, so don't legally tie yourself to them and set up an arrangement that makes it EASIER to trigger the things that stoke attraction rather than entering an arrangement that makes them HARDER to trigger.

    "Ergo, a pLTR is more dangerous a proposition to the average man than simply maintaining a single outlook."

    Having sex is more dangerous a proposition to the average man than simply MGTOW'ing. Do you promote that too? No, of course not. We educate and train men to be better, and to maximize their odds and lower their risks as much as possible. Just like we would in business or any other area of their life.

    "@YaReally, so you’re agreeing with Vanir here? If that’s the case, why bother with ANY form of LTR with women?"

    For the sake of this discussion, the goal is to raise kids for 18+ years in a stable 2-parent household. But aside from that all the usual stuff like companionship and stability and etc

    "Why even consider women for anything other than a perfunctory lay? Why the ruse of any “primary” part of what amounts to a poly-sexual relationship anyway?"

    Primary gets to live with you and be directly provided for by you, and you get whatever benefits come from having a live-in LTR.

    "Even if you have a kid it doesn’t matter because that caveat to replace its mother is always on the table."

    If you hadn't written your signature on a piece of paper would you kick your wife out and bring bottle models into your home to raise your kids for you? No?

    What is this logic? You are pulling right out of the FI Playbook here dude. You are literally saying the equivalent of "well if you're not going to marry the girl then why even date her, you're just USING her for SEX, you WANT her to feel DREAD??? Well if you dare make her feel DREAD then you are GOING to replace her with some other girl it's 100% inevitable because the fact that you DARE make her feel like you don't 100% need her, that means you are 0% committed and will 100% replace her."

    This is just bullshit FI-based shaming. You would call ANYONE else out on it in ANY other area of relationships/seduction. If I said to you "you should quit your liquor job because it makes your wife feel dread and if you're okay with her feeling dread and if she feels like you might be attracted to other women then that means you don't love her and you're going to kick her out and replace her and she's just some baby incubator to you", you would call that out as bullshit. That's exactly what you're doing here.

    "Does it not make more sense to not even consider any woman as a ‘primary’ role when that woman can never be expected to recognize or acknowledge your boundaries?"

    She can recognize and acknowledge your boundaries, what are you talking about? I'm just pointing out that she has INFINITELY more pressure to ignore your boundaries, so men should be made aware of that and realistically informed of it instead of being blindsided by it.

    "Dread is technically useless in that state because no matter what you do, according to your take, she will never voluntarily delete her options (Facebook, social media, etc.) or her orbiters from her life. If she has those options, actionable or imagined, all your Game, Dread, DHV, etc. is just pissing in the wind."

    This makes no sense. 1) they will NEVER voluntarily delete all their options in 2016. That's reality now. 2) there are tons of ways to lower the enticement of those options, like dread, game, DHV, jealousy, preselction, etc etc

    What are you even writing here? You are writing the equivalent of: "well if there are other attractive men in the room then game doesn't work and it's all just pissing in the wind". That doesn't make any sense. Game is about triggering her hypergamy while lowering other guys ability to trigger her hypergamy, which can be done, but to do it you have to first acknolwedge that you will never get rid of the other guys. They will ALWAYS be there in the background trying to fuck her from every angle in this social media smartphone connected world and that will get worse not better.

    "So, why even advocate for ANY kind of modified monogamy at all?"

    Because guys are still going to try to have kids and the system you are promoting DOES NOT WORK and will continue to fail HARDER over time. How long are you guys going to send men into this system? Does the divorce rate have to hit 90%? 95%? And WHEN it does, THEN what? Then we'll have this exact same discussion I'm bringing up.

    "Why not simply father a string of illegitimate children and skip town?"

    Because the goal is raising kids in a stable 2-parent household. Why do you guys not understand this? Why can I write this out 5000 times and you guys STILL read it as "HOW CAN I HAVE A KID BUT NOT HAVE TO RAISE OR PAY FOR IT"?

    "Let some other Beta raise them because women will never recognize a father’s authority or require his influence anyway when she’s got 2 dozen orbiters ready to lend a hand?"

    This is nonsense. I've said social influences make it HARDER not impossible, and the arrangement you are promoting makes it even HARDER than other arrangements that make it EASIER.

    Simple logic.

    "All that said, men must be prepared to walk at the first signs that he isn’t a woman’s first priority."

    It is easier to walk in:

    A) an arrangement where you are legally tied to her, have verbally promised her your full 100% monogamous commitment, have a contract signed where you will lose a bunch of your shit if she's unhaaaappy for a day or if the relationship ends for pretty much any reason (because remember she'll be encouraged to lie in court "for the sake of the kids"), have no other options (so you fall into scarcity mentalities yourself and have less incentive to stay social and attractive and have women in your social circles etc), and make her the center of your focus

    or B) an arrangement where you are together but not legally, and you have other girls on the side

    Why isn't Softek walking on his crazy girlfriend? You just told him he must be prepared to walk at the first signs and yet that message SOMEHOW ISN'T SINKING IN.

    Softek doesn't have other options, so he CAN'T walk. And you want men to sign up for HIS relationship arrangement. That's "better" for them than if Softek had 5 other girls on the side that were all cool fun etc and he could execute "walk at the first signs that he isn't a woman's priority" like you'd like him to.

    I'm just dealing with the reality that men out there are facing.

    "Lift weights, lose your gut, have a Stoic Mindset, Be Anti-Fragile, be able to manage a LTR (it’s not about the girl, it is about the relationship game), be able to maintain Frame and Soft Dread during LTR pair bonding. All of which YaReally doesn’t actually espouse because, you know PUA game doesn’t need that shit. Whereas LTR game does. "

    PUA encourages all of that shit and has for years. You literally have no idea what you're talking about. You're just trying to separate "PUA/YSG game" from "SJF's badass LTR game" so you can try to feel important and make yourself the arbiter of some special unique niche game. It's complete ego-driven bullshit that muddies the water.

  80. ” . . . an arrangement where you are together but not legally . . .”

    “For the sake of this discussion, the goal is to raise kids for 18+ years in a stable 2-parent household.”

    Would you like me to supersize your order of fried ice?

  81. @kfg
    “Would you like me to supersize your order of fried ice?”


    This is why my posts are 400 pages long, because I have to spell everything out letter by letter every time.

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