For Better or Worse

betterorworse

Before I dive in here today it’s going to be important to put things into perspective with respect to an Old Married Guy becoming Red Pill aware and then applying what he’s learned in his marriage. In the last few comment threads the discussion has veered to what exactly the state of “monogamy” (if it can be called that) will look like in the next few decades given Red Pill awareness, Open Hypergamy, the progression of technologies that conflict with (or exacerbate) our evolved capacity to reproduce, etc.

The conversation tends to be a back and forth between what a more feasible and pragmatic approach to long-term relationships might be. The Young Single Guys make a (rather convincing) case for some form of men reserving the option of non-exclusivity; to take on short term lovers should the opportunity present itself – even if for just protecting a man’s state of Frame. Dread, being what it is, would necessarily be a mutually understood cornerstone of this arrangement.

The OMGs who’ve had the benefit of experience with respect to living with women (and in some cases divorces), rearing children (for better or worse) then offer up the realities of what a pLTR might be limited by with respect to actually living in an arrangement like this and the legal ramifications it leaves men open to.

Hashing out what Marriage 3.0 will or should look like is a discussion I’ll reserve for the next essay. For now I think it’s going to be important for that debate to recognize that since Red Pill awareness, in the intersexual respect, is a relatively new social awareness there’s always going to be differing experiences with it.

For the young men who’ve had the benefit of being Red Pill aware and learning Game, courtesy of communication technology and the experiences of countless other older men, it may sound kind of mundane when an Old Married Guy (OMG) finally ‘gets it’ after being Blue Pill for so long. But while you may never consider getting married in the future, you will no doubt get older and hopefully wiser in a way that your elders never had the benefit of. The reason I wrote Preventive Medicine was to do just this; to teach men what to expect from women and their sexual strategies and prioritization at their various phases of maturity. However, I would be remiss not to take into consideration what YSGs relate about the realities of today’s sexual marketplace. I think between us we have a very powerful knowledge-base.

As I said, for YSGs, it may seem mundane for a formerly Blue Pill OMG to kick up his wife’s sexual interest with his new Red Pill awareness, but consider that to him the Red Pill is an exciting answer to a long struggle. Likewise, an older guy reeling from an ugly divorce and rebuilding an even better life and sex life with Red Pill awareness is a fantastic feeling that I think is hard for YSGs to empathize with.

Instant Gratification

In my Stalling for Time essay I quoted reader YaReally and his understandable frustration with dealing with women in what’s become the modern sexual marketplace. I won’t re-quote it here, but the gist of it was how women of this generation are so predisposed to the attentions that social media offers them. The immediacy of social affirmation is just an Instagram post away and Beta orbiters are now a utility women simply take for granted.

It’s important to understand this in the light of how women’s psyches interpret instantaneous affirmation, as well as instantaneous indignation, attention and emotional consolation from both Beta orbiters and ‘you go girl’ girlfriends. I should also point out that there’s an even uglier side to this equation for women and girls who find themselves social outcasts. The cruel venom from haters is equally as instantaneous and likewise women’s evolved psyches struggle to process this.

As is the theme of this series, we have a situation wherein technological advancement outpaces human capacity to adequately process how it is affecting us. In this case we have women’s solipsistic nature that prevents the insight necessary to self-govern themselves with regard to how instant gratification of their base needs for attention is affecting their personalities and the decisions they make because of it. Prior to the communication age women’s need for interpersonal affirmation was generally limited to a small social circle and the opportunities to satisfy it were precious and private. It used to require far more investment on the part of women to connect interpersonally. But in the space of just two generations the social media age has made this affirmation an expect part of a woman’s daily life.

On top of this, we find ourselves in a time when feminine-primacy in our social structure makes criticizing or even making casual, constructive, observations of this self-gratifying vanity on par with misogyny for men. Women cannot hear what men wont tell them, and women have far less incentive to self-examine the consequences of what this affirmation-satisfying attention is working in them.

The Open Hypergamy Future

I get what the Young Single Guys are saying, I really do. I linked this article in a recent comment and after reading through it and author’s blog I can’t help but sympathize with the YSG’s grasp of the modern dating scene and how utterly hopeless it is for men to expect anything less than complete, life altering despair from the prospect of marriage. There is no upside to monogamous commitment, but the real kicker is that this condition is what women plan for and would hope for their own daughters.

Now, I understand Emma Johnson is another click-bait outrage broker, but is the sentiment her reader relates in raising her daughter to expect to be a single mother as an ideal state all that difficult or shocking to believe from women in this era?

My dream for my daughter is that she be in a loving relationship, and have a good ex-husband who really does a great job with the kids, 50 percent of the time.

People forget the joys of divorce — sharing your kids without guilt and having alone/me time.

[…]I also have time to exercise, enjoy vacations that are relaxing and involve lots of book-reading, and I have had time to nurture a relationship with my new husband, with fewer of the stresses of blended families.

The idealized state is one in which I outlined in The Myth of the Good Guy:

The problem with this ‘Good Guy’ myth is not because men can’t or wouldn’t want to try to balance women’s Hypergamy for them, but simply because women neither want nor expect that balance in the same man to begin with.

This is a new step in Open Hypergamy, the acknowledgement and proud embrace of women’s Hypergamous sexual strategy is not enough. The open expectation that one man will father and support her children while another will satisfy her sexually and appreciatively is not enough. The plan is literally to raise a young woman to adulthood with the expectation of her raising another child without a father/husband in her life and the child’s. We’re left to presume that the preferred norm for raising boys will be in teaching them it’s their responsibility to accommodate this norm.

The plan is not simply to end the Sandbergian plan for Hypergamy with the “Equal partner, someone who thinks women should be smart, opinionated and ambitious who values fairness and expects or, even better, wants to do his share in the home.” The plan is to leave that well-providing Beta once he’s been locked into indefinite utility and take up with a sexier husband with fewer parental stresses.

Yet, despite the overtness of women’s Hypergamy, men still have an idealistic hope that the worst predations of women wont happen to them. Read this woman’s post, sift through her other posts; she’s despicable, calculating, duplicitous and would put the knife in your back she told you she would,…but she’s also honest.

Whether by our conditioning or some intrinsic idealism, we want to believe in the earnestness of the Old Set of Books in the face of New Book women openly telling us “You stupid men, this is what we plan to do to you from the outset. Naked, open Hypergamy and all its machinations is what I will teach my daughters and grand daughters to do to your sons and grandsons. And you will take it and accept your Alpha Fucks or Beta Bucks roles in all of it because you’ll never get past your inherent idealism that we might not do all of this.”

We want to believe this woman is an outlier, but by order of degree, we know that whether it’s with softly spoken, loving words or a mommy blog that triumphantly yells these truths, women’s opportunistic concept of love will never align with our idealistic concept of love.

Primary LTRs

The arrangement this woman is hoping will be her daughter’s adult life is not too far different from what YaReally was suggesting about pLTRs; a primary long term relationship with a direct or indirect understanding that a man could take other lovers as fits him. He’s not the first to suggest the pLTR scheme as a workaround for marriage or raising a family sans marriage or binding commitment. And if Emma Johnson (or the reader she’s quoted) is to be believed this would be her own ideal relationship, albeit from the perspective of a woman retaining total Frame control.

Even a PUA like Mystery believed he could maintain a literal harem in some kind of live-in pLTR. And then there are the men who subscribe to the Charles Bukowski school of intersexual relations – in the right socioeconomic conditions this pLTR is realtively possible, but I think this is a poor substitute for what, as men we’d like to be an ideal, reciprocal marriage in which men can expect respect, desire, love, honor and all the other words no woman could ever hope to recite from their marriage vows.

I’ve locked horns with more than a few women who want to take me to task over my debating that human beings are not naturally monogamous. From a social perspective, loose monogamy and women’s inherent need for cuckoldry has always conflicted with our more or less successful human progress based on monogamous marriage. This is changing right along with the latest technologies that afford it to. As such, men are also forced to adapt and improvise with women’s inabilities to process these changes and the rapidity with which the next ones occur.

The old gals always like to tout that western society is the result of our agrarian roots and monogamous way of life. This is ironic since it’s women themselves who’ve fought tooth and nail to destroy exactly this ‘successful’ set up. Ruthless, open Hypergamy is now something to be proud of; something to instruct our daughters to utilize for their own solipsistic, selfish betterment at men’s expense – and to feel no shame for it, but rather expect it as the future norm.

It’s now time for men to either accept and adapt to this, or to form our own response to it in a way that not only benefits our interests, but the interests of women who can no longer process these changes without mens’ direct instruction. In Our Sisters’ Keeper I explored the notion that women of today are merely the women we deserve because men have kept their counsel about the affairs of women. We’ve got the women we deserve because our silence, and the silence of our forbearers, was the voice of complicity. Now we’ve come so far that women will send a man to jail or the unemployment office, or a paternity court rather than hear a man criticize her inability to process social changes that harm not only her but the larger social order.

There must come a point where men must unapologetically correct women for the betterment of society. Today this is a bold statement, one that could likely bring consequences to man’s life, but it’s only a bold thought because we’ve allowed women and their imperatives define the Frame of our social order for so long now. The socio-intersexual conditions we find ourselves in today are the direct result of women’s inability to process rapid social changes. As men we need to collectively recognize this. We need to recognize also that our social state is the result of allowing women to set a social framework that indentures men, that calls single motherhood and Hypergamous choices normative ideals.

We also need to recognize that we will be reviled for presuming some patriarchal control or male privilege, but we must have the confidence to set this aside in the knowledge that we now understand that women cannot cope with post-modern social and technological changes.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Colbert
Colbert
6 years ago

@ Vanir,

It’s cool, man (or is it ma’m) – it doesn’t matter. You’re gonna believe whatever you want to believe because you want to believe it. I’ve accepted that now and have worked through THAT, so it’s all good bro.

[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5ZOmpAtcHw&w=560&h=315%5D

Matatan
Matatan
6 years ago

@vanir
Labels like male supremacist and misogynist control freak I consider a compliment coming from someone like you. If I rile you up this much then I’m doing something right.

Thanks babe, I love you too.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

‘Sugar daddy” fliers showing up in U. of New Hampshire campus area.
Locals alarmed because “vulnerable women”.

http://www.necn.com/news/new-england/Ads-Seeking-Sugar-Daddies-Pop-Up-on-UNH-Campus-394965611.html

Open hypergamy but let’s pretend it is actually predator menz.

Vanir (@Vanir85)
6 years ago

“Whats your gender?” – Andy I’m keeping that purposefully vague – and I won’t get dragged into any discussions about it – so just don’t make anything of it. My advice to women on how to not give up their power and freedom is good for THEM – with there being men around who seek to control them – regardless of what gender I may or not be myself. Its certainly what I would tell any daughters I may or may not have. Life is to short to deal with that kind of controlling, male bullshit. So always be ready… Read more »

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

“I’m keeping that purposefully vague – and I won’t get dragged into any discussions about it – so just don’t make anything of it.”

If your a dude you could really improve your life if you did a little deeper than your preconceptions. If you’re a chick, whatever.

Matatan
Matatan
6 years ago

“I’m keeping that purposefully vague –”

No you don’t, it’s perfectly clear you’re a woman. A 31 year old just post wall single woman I might add.

Vanir (@Vanir85)
6 years ago

“Labels like male supremacist and misogynist control freak I consider a compliment coming from someone like you.”
-Matatan

Its simply an accurate description, no more and no less. You think of women as inferior things that men have a right to control, and you try to carry it out.

You are a monster, and I hope you end up alone, abandoned and broken – simply because it’s what you deserve. Tho I suspect you prefer to imagine i’m seething with indignation and rage or whatever.

Monsters are like that.

Vanir (@Vanir85)
6 years ago

“If your a dude you could really improve your life if you did a little deeper than your preconceptions. If you’re a chick, whatever.”
-Andy

And here’s a good example of why its better to keep it vague – especially when dealing with male supremacists who measure your human value based on your gender.

Matatan
Matatan
6 years ago

“You are a monster, and I hope you end up alone, abandoned and broken – simply because it’s what you deserve. Tho I suspect you prefer to imagine i’m seething with indignation and rage or whatever.”

The righteousness, the righteousness, gimme something for the righteousness.

Signing off now, I’ve got a wife to control and kids to damage.

othergrain
othergrain
6 years ago

@vanir

https://youtu.be/B_obeR1OIm8

Lay off the scare words and make some specific arguments…you monster.

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

@Vanir

lol. Women are not attracted to the man you are (or think you want.) That’s just reality.

https://therationalmale.com/2014/08/20/equalism-and-masculinity/

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

@Vanir – So your advice to women isn’t not to marry a man, it’s to be ready to break her sacred vow and promise whenever she feels it might be best for her. Not in the case of abuse – we all agree here that assaulting a woman is wrong. And oh yeah, does that woman getting spanked look like she hasn’t consented? One more point – consent is consent. There is no requirement for it to be “overt”. Only in rabid SJW minds, of course. I mean, that’s your entire argument, right? That our dialog here is an example… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

You’re a MONSTER!!!!!! Lol. Correction: I am a Beast. In full on Beast mode. There is a distinction. Women like some beasting in men. My lifelong experience Trump’s your wishful thinking. H/T to Sentient for the gif. Why the constant mention of the 2nd amendment? Did you just recently find out about it or something? It’s pretty neat, right? But being the Beast that I am, I respond to violence with overwhelming violence, so zfg to threats, veiled or otherwise. Lol. No quarter given to feminuts. Now, do you have relevant thoughts you wish to debate? Or are you just… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Vanir85 condones non consensual spanking…

https://twitter.com/Vanir85/status/780684453827977216

Novaseeker
6 years ago

I’m wondering if it would have been worse if those men had been legally married. There would have been child support plus alimony and losing half the dog… Or does child support also include ‘the parent that houses the child’-support also and hence the gutting by the judge? Alimony is worse, of course, but it’s also increasingly uncommon, and in many places where it is still awarded, subject to limits. There are a few egregious places like CA and MA that are evil and are to be avoided (if you happen to live there, never, ever, ever get married there… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Nova

Let’s not forget common law wife, community property states and palimony (in CA) for the never marries…

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

You read novaseeker YaReally???

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

It is interesting that the Vanir discussion tactics are elucidated in the concept of Powertalk. (Explained in not so simple ways originally by Venkatesh Rao in regards to office politics in “The Office”)

Vanir is in the Loser category.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1zrcs3/on_the_implications_of_powertalk_and_other/?ref=share&ref_source=link

http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/11/11/the-gervais-principle-ii-posturetalk-powertalk-babytalk-and-gametalk/

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

Well, I got off the merry-go-round of discussions in this latest thread, and it seemed to just get moving faster and faster and I’ve been trying to jump back on and make a point or two. But I can’t seem to find a spot. I was at the cigar lounge last night with my red pill buddy and I started the discussion with whether the Sgt. Dan Daley approach to life can really actually be sustained for the long run. Cause me and him have been using this approach for a long time now and it has actually always worked… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

Glad you guys are weighing in.

I was getting exhausted yelling into YaReally’s ether.

….for no real benefit in 2016.

@ scrib

Thanks again for sharing and attempting to bring real world perspective.

@ kfg

Lmao. You already know brother.

Vanir (@Vanir85)
6 years ago

“[..] you are merely promoting a femcentric view of intersexual relations. And along the way giving women moral support for destroying families. ” -scribblerg If dumping a man who seeks to control you, who NEEDS to control you – is “femcentric” – then so be it (as in, centered around females not being men’s subjects?). But its not her destroying the family, tho, its the man who does so when he starts thinking of it as his personal kingdom to rule, instead of an equal enterprise – she is simply leaving what has turned out to be a tyranny. (Not… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

Power talk. Lol… there’s a name for everything.

Yes, power talk indeed.

Matatan
Matatan
6 years ago

Unapologetically correcting women for the betterment of society won’t be done trying to convince them we are right by means of argument. It will be done by setting boundaries and maintain them
No disrespect Rollo, you have literally saved my life and my family through your works. You are a giant.

Vanir (@Vanir85)
6 years ago

“Why the constant mention of the 2nd amendment? […] I respond to violence with overwhelming violence, so zfg to threats, veiled or otherwise. Lol.” -Blaximus I mention it because its relevant. And its relevant because in this area, turns out you and me are in agreement: The proper response to violence, is to counter it with your own violence. Without hesitation. Without mercy… … As women should if men seek to “correct” them against their will, in any physical way what so ever (or if any group of men seek to take away women’s rights or such, but that goes… Read more »

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

“But its not her destroying the family, tho, its the man who does so when he starts thinking of it as his personal kingdom to rule, instead of an equal enterprise”

@Vanir

Women are not attracted to any man willing to participate in an “equal enterprise.” Reality.

https://therationalmale.com/2013/01/30/choreplay/

Vanir (@Vanir85)
6 years ago

“What is more supremacist?” -Rollo The man who believes he has the right to correct a woman. The man who believes he stands above women and that their lives and choices are his to control and mold as he sees fit, for his own purposes – whatever they may be (the nuclear family holds value for YOU, it may not for others, and its their choice to support it or not). There being such men. Male supremacists in every way. Men who see it as their right to control and correct women – means women must always be ready to… Read more »

Vanir (@Vanir85)
6 years ago

“[..] it’s technically misogyny because it came from a man”
-Rollo

It’s misogyny if he thinks she should obey BECAUSE he’s the man/husband. Or if he believes he has the right to impose any sanctions on her, another grown ass human being, is she “defies” him.

[Bullshit. Your first impression will always be that ANY man dictating any authority or exercising ANY control will automatically come from his “need” to by virtue of his being a man in the first place]

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

@Scribbler Was your daughter informed of the fact the her mother did what she did in breaking up the two of you early on after the breakup? Like in the first three years after? I understand the situation is more complex that just focusing on that. And I understand the parental alienation that was engineered by your wife. But, Dr. Laura Schlessinger is really big on telling the truth to 8 to 13 year old children. The truth that the mom might have broken up the marriage by sleeping with another guy. And she is huge on doing what is… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ vanir No one has said a thing about making women do anything against their ” wills “. What is the nature of that will is debatable. I dominate in my home. I make zero apologies for this. My family is happy and well cared for mentally and financially. I am king in my castle, but I am a benevolent king. Most living creatures have ” heads “. A family is a living unit. Women that believe otherwise are free to do as they wish and corner the world market on cats. But due to the inordinate amount of interference… Read more »

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

Ten bucks says Vanir is not going to take Rollo’s advice (or Andy’s) and actually read any of Rollo’s essays.

And what was Vanir’s actual gender? Has that been decided? Mangina or SJW?

Novaseeker
6 years ago

It’s just another one like that faggot Futrelle. Yawn.

Yes, we own guns, too, fag. Wan’t a showdown at noon? More of us are armed than you are, I can guarantee you that, so watch what you wish for.

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

Checked out Vanir’s twitter page. Lol, self identifies as a feminist and a radical democrat who believes EVERYTHING is up for the vote. So, in other words, he/she’s an idiot who doesn’t even understand the nature of the political system we live in. Everything will never be up for the vote in this society, Vanir. Wanting that kind of democracy merely reveals you haven’t studied democracy and its history and why we formed a representative republic. And you are not the only one with 2nd amendment rights… Vanir speaks of a man dominating a woman as though this is a… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

@SJF – My daughter was 4.5 when we split even though she ended up marrying the guy she had the affair with, I felt it inappropriate to being it up. I was content that as long as my fatherhood wasn’t being messed with, I didn’t need to go into all that. One time, in her early teens, she mentioned that she “knew” but didn’t say exactly what. But the larger point is that my ex’s issues are all blamed on me and her second husband, which ended in divorce too. This is a key point of a narcissistic personality disordered… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

@Nova – Indeed, I try to remind people of the numbers all the time. I was talking to a radical black guy who was all revolutionary and when I mentioned I thought we were headed towards a race war he thought that was a good idea. I went on to tell him that of course blacks would lose the race war as white folks are armed to the teeth and will win. This left him sputtering. Like he doesn’t understand that many of us are currently restraining ourselves but might not always. How many black men can put their hands… Read more »

newlyaloof
6 years ago

@SomeAttentWhore said, “Single motherhood (or any other arrangement) is certainly preferable to any relationship with a man who seeks to dominate you – and a woman has every right to chose the former over the latter. You simply can’t expect women to get involved with, or stay involved with, men who want them under their control, simple as that” Single moms think they are raising kids on their own, yet get WIC, food stamps, welfare, childcare, housing assistance, alimony. They are doing anything but raising kids on their own. lol! Yeah, better to stay attached to and be controlled by… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

scribblerg

“I’m starting to believe it’s the only way we’ll get a chance to rid ourselves of these fucking traitors”

It’s all just a meta shit test, and like all others will be put down by strong men… in time…

as you point out the enabling economic condition is collapsing…

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

http://userscontent2.emaze.com/images/f984f424-4b78-4539-a7ce-8e86226c0025/30fbdcc9-1210-4da0-bfaf-f146caad4b4c.jpg

Around the country, a big trend in local zoning is for micro lots and homes… wonder why?

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

http://image.slidesharecdn.com/germanyafterwwi-131031181724-phpapp01/95/germany-after-wwi-8-638.jpg

Amazing how many people do not realize the scenes are less than a hundred years ago… they think it is 500 years ago, just a quirk of a history that can never be repeated…

It is always Back to the Future…

Vanir (@Vanir85)
6 years ago

“Bullshit. Your first impression will always be that ANY man dictating any authority or exercising ANY control will automatically come from his “need” to by virtue of his being a man in the first place” Ooh. You think you’re a mind reader, now? I’d get out my tinfoil hat, but you’re obviously not a real one. “Yet statistically it is women who overwhelmingly chose to be single-mothers.” -Rollo Yet… yet what? Divorce may be a raw deal for men, but marriage is a raw deal for women – even without being stuck with a dominating asshole – so it’s obviously… Read more »

Vanir (@Vanir85)
6 years ago

“Women that believe otherwise are free to do as they wish and corner the world market on cats.”
-Blaximus

Or have a family and kids in their own way – while staying the hell away from control-needy men and their “king of the castle” power fantasies 😀

Your sick need for dominance is not wanted. Sow we’re making sure you are not needed.

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2016/06/28/101913897.somme-news_1-large_trans++x9U5Y90jTtz1n8G9lx71dcgNPBvqLH4LOvtETVmazjc.jpg

A hundred years ago today, your great grandpa had his hands full, and it wasn’t with an xbox or a mouse…

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

Lol. In my case you’ve failed miserably.

Vanir (@Vanir85)
6 years ago

“What a joke that I have to even lower myself to interact with such ignorant fucks” – scribblerg Yes how horrid, people disagreeing with you, who don’t just happily worship your every word, embrace their inferiority to your magnificence, and willingly crawl below your boot. Must be tough. “However, I’m starting to believe it’s the only way we’ll get a chance to rid ourselves of these fucking traitors…” – scribblerg And my own embrace of the 2. amendment explained right here. So many male supremacists are fascist who’re just itching to put women back in “their place” with the use… Read more »

Fred Flange and his Rhythm & Melody
Fred Flange and his Rhythm & Melody
6 years ago

Guys guys guys – stop feeding the Social Just-rice Worrier emissary from Hurting the Marmoset. Ooh or they might try to get one of those 400 lb. guys sitting on his bed to try a DDOS (site backup, yes?) or Do the Doxx (it’s all the rage). Though perhaps it has occurred to our epicene visitor that the bright light could be turned round to shine in his/her/zir/zxx/zits direction. You know, action/reaction and all that fact-based stuff (oh I forgot facts are a cissygenderable heterosexerist patriamalarkey hegemonic concept) It’s not powertalk, it’s pootie-talk. So hold frame, don’t step in that… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“What is money?”

If the majority of people could answer that question the resulting riots would burn our civilization to the ground.

“Yes, we own guns, too, fag.”

More to the point, we already own most of the ammo and practice, on a regular basis, making one shot kills with rifles, as opposed to occasionally shooting 9mm pistols held sideways in some random direction.

@Vanir:

Women (and even you), have a right to self-defense.

They do not have a right (and neither do I) to win.

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

@Vanir – Lol, you live in a fantasyworld of nonsense. Truly. Not aiming to put women back in their place at all, in fact, just the opposite. I’ve shucked all that provider/protector/father crap and just want to glaze them up like donuts. When they volunteer for it. And they do…I want nothing to do with traditional life and women in fact. Take a look at what you’ve done here. You are now claiming we are fascists and male supremacists – I never made any claim about male supremacy. Or anything implying it, read my comments to you, nothing of the… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

Ahhh, I see in catching up I’m just being redundant.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

Lol @ 9mm reference.

Vanir (@Vanir85)
6 years ago

“[..] ruining the western world [..]”
-scribblerg

Wow. You really have a bleak outlook. I mean; you *sure* you don’t want to “put women in their place”? ‘Cause your doom and gloom outlook says otherwise…
… or is it just a more general problem you have with ppl who you disagree with having the same right to further their views and politics, as you do?

Fred Flange and his Rhythm & Melody
Fred Flange and his Rhythm & Melody
6 years ago

Hey scribG:

Don’t get mad, get busy.

I refer the honorable gentleman* to the reply I gave some moments ago. No need for force, they’ll never show up. Talk is all they got.

*you surely don’t mind, yes?

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

Vanir. “So many male supremacists are fascist who’re just itching to put women back in “their place” with the use of force (their violent fantasies may also include extermination/subjugation of Jews, PoC, LGBTS, SJWS, liberals, etc – anyone not white male cis and straight). “Obey or die!” Seems to be the final stance, once all RedPill, PuA. and Bio”truth” has failed to make women crawl back into their cage.” You are conflating this blog with other niches of the manosphere. And your shaming tactics won’t actually work here. https://exposingfeminism.wordpress.com/shaming-tactics/ Feminism is an ideology and likes to think of itself in… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“If men feel THAT entitled to control another person’t life – that they KILL themselves if they cannot do so – then that’s just another reason for women to make sure they have an out.”

I will give the benefit of the doubt and assume that this is just deliberate obfuscation and not actual retardedness.

I feel generous today.

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

@Vanir – I have no problem with disagreement. Simple question: Are you aware the the New Left you so obviously inherited your ideas from had and has as a goal to end western civilization? I mean, you must know about the criticism of Marcuse and Gramsci? You must be aware the beat culture and how that morphed into the “counter culture” and how thought leaders of the left overly and loudly decried the goal of destroying our classical liberal set up, yes? So my commenting on the destruction of it is based on the destruction of the traditional family and… Read more »

Vanir (@Vanir85)
6 years ago

“Equalism spoils stuff. Like both men’s and women’s sexual strategy. Who wants to kiss their sister?” – SJF If you can’t desire someone you consider your equal, that is your problem. And yes; people should become who they really are – not who redpill chauvinists think they should be, based on their gender. Women are not beholden to conform to some demure, feminine stereotype – just so men can feel like big, bad conquerors. So I’ll take my equalism and keep furthering it, and keep working for a world where women can be strong, free and proud – without misogynists… Read more »

scray
scray
6 years ago

@MrT

Any experience with pinging them 15 min prior to the date to tell them you are going to be late 10 min? Will have to try this but Im expecting it might at least let you know if they are flaking in advance (sometimes at least?).

I tend to not play games with txting. Just txt them a few hours before and confirm. back in the day the advice was ‘just show up bro who gives a fuck’ blah blah blah, but in 2016, like you pretty need to confirm.

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

@Vanir – What does the term equal mean? Answer: It means two things are the same. Question: Are men and women “equal” then? Pretty basic and the answer is obvious. Men and women are very different, and these differences show up in different biology, neurology and behavior from the moment we are born. So there is no way a sentient person can claim men and women are “equal”. What you and your sophomoric drone friends mean is that you want “social, political and economic equality” when you talk about equality. You want outcomes to be the same – but only… Read more »

SJB
SJB
6 years ago

@Vanir: If you can’t desire someone you consider your equal, that is your problem.

I’m not demure and feminine yet am attracted to women who are demure and feminine. I don’t have a choice to whom I’m attracted. You a bigot?

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

Vanir “……people should become who they really are…. So I’ll take my equalism and keep furthering it, and keep working for a world where women can be strong, free and proud….” Good luck with your definitions of who your people really are and good luck with how their strategy is working out. And how much real power they wield and how their children are actually turning out. (Heh, you can’t fake good kids…) (Real Power is the degree to which a person has control over their own circumstances. Real Power is the degree to which we control the directions of… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“So I’ll take my equalism and keep furthering it, and keep working for a world where women can be strong, free and proud….”

Translation:

I will fight for equality by demanding inequality.

Corollary:

There is no such thing as gender and your gender sucks.

Vanir (@Vanir85)
6 years ago

“the destruction of the traditional family and now our free market economy and some of our civil liberties” -scribblerg I consider the “destruction” of the traditional family (tho its not really destroyed, it has simply become one *option* among many) to be an increase in personal liberty (not what you consider *civic* liberty, i take it?). You are not free if you HAVE to submit yourself to a man in a specific type of social institution to “be allowed” to reproduce. As for the “free market” – unrestrained capitalism has proven destructive and a source for societal conflict – so… Read more »

SJB
SJB
6 years ago

@Vanir: You are not free if you HAVE to submit yourself to a man in a specific type of social institution to “be allowed” to reproduce.

I had doubts regarding negative criticisms of public education but that statement, of itself, has dispelled them. There’s a song you can sing: “Don’t know much about biology . . .”

Vanir (@Vanir85)
6 years ago

“you want “social, political and economic equality” when you talk about equality”
-scribblerg

In part. But when I say equal, i also DO mean equal freedom to act “like men” (as you might label it) if that is what a woman finds natural/desirable *for herself*. So yes; equal means the right to, in fact, be “the same” – without being derided or looked down upon.

Jobs in garbage disposal certainly should be open for both genders. Btw.

Then whoever wants them, can compete for them.

Vanir (@Vanir85)
6 years ago

“Don’t know much about biology . . .”
– SJB

I’m very aware how the biology of it works, thank you very much 😀

Talking about the legal/social aspects.

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“It’s every man’s right to have babies if he wants them.” –Loretta

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“Jobs in garbage disposal certainly should be open for both genders. Btw.

Then whoever wants them, can compete for them.”

Congratulations, you’ve won! You can go home now.

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Vanir85

Do you even lift?

SJB
SJB
6 years ago

@Vanir: Legal and social aspects are downstream from biology.

Vanir (@Vanir85)
6 years ago

“Women know you’re a sell-out to the Feminine Imperative with every post or tweet you make.” – Rollo Supporting the individual liberty of both genders to chose and live how they wish, is not selling out – it’s standing on principle of personal freedom. I’m not worried about people, men and women, having options and making free choices (FREE, as in, NOT isolated, manipulated, brainwashed, etc). If humanity becomes more androgynous and homogenous, so be it, as long as its due to free choices of individual people. The only unacceptable path is one that is due to coercion and criminal… Read more »

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

“But when I say equal, i also DO mean equal freedom to act “like men” (as you might label it) if that is what a woman finds natural/desirable *for herself*.” @Vanir So, why the animosity? All women sexually respond to dominance whether they consciously want to or not. “So yes; equal means the right to, in fact, be “the same” – without being derided or looked down upon.” Everyone has that freedom in this society. A vast majority of people in western society hail this type of relationship as the standard. TRP is a very small minority, and we only… Read more »

Vanir (@Vanir85)
6 years ago

“Do you even lift?”
– Sentient

Currently lifting beer cans.

(National Drink Beer Day, dontchaknow?
… at least I think it is.)

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

” . . . both genders . . .”

Smell something funny? Have a look at the bottom of your shoes.

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

“dontchaknow?”

Is this Emmy?

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMWAt8amiQk

Gents – you will get more from watching this than chat with “Vanir”…

Fred Flange and his Rhythm & Melody
Fred Flange and his Rhythm & Melody
6 years ago

Surely I’m not the only one noting our honorable gentlecreature is European? Ze Eeengleesh is all wrong. Obviously only rudimentary knowledge of the USA, but that’s OK. All we’re talking is western culture* here, which is global fair game, fine. Lots of folks here for whom English may be a third or fourth language, bless ’em. I mean, most Amurricans don’t know their congressman, senator, mayor or dog catcher, let alone how other countries are governed. So I will repeat my challenge, but will make it less Yank-centric. Does our honorable gentlecreature know who zis/zer member of parliament is? President?… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

Oh Vanir, none of what you said is responsive to my attempts to engage you seriously. It’s merely hyperbole and snark. Like how you choose to define equality as a woman being able to define herself as a man if she feels like it, lol. You stupid hack, then equality also means I can fashion myself as I like, so if I don’t want to acknowledge said woman as a man, part of equality (in the febrile way you define it) is that I get to still treat her like a woman if I want to. What you are actually… Read more »

Vanir (@Vanir85)
6 years ago

“There is no such thing as equalism”
– Rollo

I think this is gonna have to be one of these “agree to disagree” things. I believe in it, and I will keep furthering it. I would not deny you or anyone the right to speak against is – my initial problem with the discussion here was that it involved abusive and borderline criminal behavior – deliberately isolating women to screw with their head and manipulate them.

Have a good day, I’ll probably return so y’all can gawk at the liberal idiot, some other time.

scray
scray
6 years ago

I completely agree that men and women want ‘equal’ partners. For some reason, people believe that men desire from women what women desire from men. I think TRPers go WAY WAY WAY overboard with the ‘WOMEN ONLY HAVE YOUTH AND HOTS TO OFFER BRO’ stuff. Men place a high premium on women who are NICE and FEMININE and FEED THE MALE EGO (whatever it’s true — most of the time men who have affairs have them with women who are just nice to them). the main problem with modern women is that they never acquire much to offer as a… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

Vanir’s equal:

comment image

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Scray

“Those two go together and are ‘equal.’”

They are complementary, not equal.

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

@Scray:

I have noted (although perhaps not here) that one of the unintended consequences of feminism has been the complete destruction of the value of grandmothers.

kfg
kfg
6 years ago
Bachelorocles
Bachelorocles
6 years ago

@Vanir “If you can’t desire someone you consider your equal, that is your problem. . . . So I’ll take my equalism and keep furthering it.” May we discuss the established fact that women sexually desire men who are physically superior (taller, bigger, stronger), superior in wealth, and superior in social status? You state as a moral proposition that men must desire equals, do you hold the same for women and demand women must desire their physical, economic, and social equals? We may criticize male mate choice but we may not dare speak of the sexual choices of the divine… Read more »

YaReally
6 years ago

@Blaximus “Yet, you continue to mock real life experience. Image that?” Outdated life experience by OMGs who have never kept a <25yo 8+/10 2016 chick raised in 2016 culture attracted to them in a monogamous legally-married arrangement for 18+ years, but act as if they have. "You think divorce is absolutely more devastating than getting raped over child support." No, child support is bigger, but the reward of child support is "you have kids". The reward of divorce is "some chick that gives no fucks about you is fucking her boyfriend in your house on your dime". One is an… Read more »

Vanir (@Vanir85)
6 years ago

“social dominance”
-Rollo

Men should not have a position of social dominance over women. Simple as that. And claiming so, is in fact misogynistic, chauvinist, and all those other things you don’t want men to be called out on, when they are.

You push that men should dominate women, yet are utterly indignant when women find ways to live and reproduce independent from such men’s attempt to control them.

As long as there are men who want to control women, women will find ways to fight off, resist, avoid or subvert that control.

YaReally
6 years ago

@Rollo “Yet, if a man were bold enough to correct women by daring to advise they prepare themselves to be acceptable for men he’s accused of misogyny, a fragile ego, being a chauvinits/supremacist and suspect of physical violence. That’s the degree of control the FI has conditioned into our gender norms.” Hear that, Blaximus? Like I’ve said since the beginning: the things you’re advising are great, and still work, we all agree on that, but society is being socially conditioned to view those things you’re recommending as abusive/evil/etc in 2016 and even if they work on the girl herself, her… Read more »

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

http://alphagameplan.blogspot.com/2015/03/irrational-discourse.html Irrational Discourse From a conversation on Twitter: Vanir ‏@Vanir85 @voxday the problem (for misogynists) is women CHOOSING instead of being wifebots or sex-slaves. it’s almost like they’re *people* Vox Day ‏@voxday The real objection is to the way so many women are choosing to stuff their faces and evolve into land whales. Vanir ‏@Vanir85 because looking thin for men is NOT the most important thing in their life, i imagine. and good for them 🙂 If you want to know how to make an SJW dance like a puppet, just utilize their contrarian instincts. Once you have been identified… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

“-“As it stands right now, your plan has no benefit in 2016.”

Less risk to men is a significant benefit. But you wouldn’t care about that, that would require viewing other men as worth helping.”

http://unrealitymag.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/shark-copy.jpg

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

I’m helping men right now by saving them from considering your ” plan “.

More to follow…..

Get your counter arguments lined up now.

Lol.

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“No, child support is bigger, but the reward of child support is “you have kids”. ”

Your premise is incorrect. What you have are offspring. An instantiation of your genetic inheritance.

Stop claiming that things are different now in 2016 while simultaneously denying the way things are different now in 2016 and you might stand a chance of staying out of the weaponized Red Queen’s corridor.

Waving your hand and saying, “These are not the droids I’m looking for,” does not make the killer droids go away and leave you alone.

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Yareally

The less you make an effort to understand the world YSGs are living in and keep thinking your experience in a completely different culture/system with a completely different type of girl that YSGs are no longer finding around them, the more outdated and dust-covered you make yourself look.

Nah dude, it’s 1550 man, don’t you get it? That stuff may have worked in 1510 but not anymore… women are different now!

comment image

SJB
SJB
6 years ago

@kfg: My compliments on the video link.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

” That’s why I say they’re outdated in the form that you’re presenting them. If you’re too stuck in your OMG ways to be flexible/adaptive anymore, cool, I get it, you’re a relic covered in dust and I guess they say you can’t teach an old dog new tricks for a reason…but your advice will sound more and more like outdated “bring her flowers and ask her dad if you may court his daughter in exchange for your father’s cattle” nonsense until we can discuss the realities of the playing field modern men are dealing with and how that’s changed… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

It’s so much more fun to be out of this OMG/YSG thing. A thought for you guys to digest. Not taking a position – note from the past on this topic that I’m looking for dialog and ideas. Let’s look at some actual data again and use that for a discussion rather than just any person’s individual experience. From Changes in American Adults’ Sexual Behavior and Attitudes, 1972-2012. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25940736 “In the nationally representative General Social Survey, U.S. Adults (N = 33,380) in 2000-2012 (vs. the 1970s and 1980s) had more sexual partners, were more likely to have had sex with… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

YR: “Like I’ve said since the beginning: the things you’re advising are great, and still work, we all agree on that, but society is being socially conditioned to view those things you’re recommending as abusive/evil/etc in 2016 and even if they work on the girl herself, her friends and family and people she doesn’t even know who butt their heads in in this social-media-connected world, will be encouraging her to Eat Pray Love her way away from your “abusive” ass.”

Me: *facepalm*

Scribbler: “We have a more permissive morality . . .”

We have women as IEDs.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ YaReally Since you have never been married or divorced, yet fancy yourself some kind of expert, I have a little c&p for your education regarding the potential ass raping that may happen to you if your plan wobbles because of loss of a job or if your Primary just feels like it. ————————————————————————————————– Income Withholding Most child support orders require employers and payers of funds to automatically withhold basic support, medical support and spousal support obligations from an obligor’s income. Income has been defined as any periodic form of payment due to an individual, regardless of source, including wages,… Read more »

othergrain
othergrain
6 years ago

I think vanir is providing fantastic insight into the current climate regarding having hand in a relationship. Yes, he may be just some white knight, but he is by no means an outlier. Everything you older guys are recommending young men do to have a successful LTR (which a agree with) is considered misogynist, toxic, impressive. etc. The venerable vanir writes: “Divorce may be a raw deal for men, but marriage is a raw deal for women – even without being stuck with a dominating asshole.” No proof required to spout this shit…but this is how marriage is seen by… Read more »

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