For Better or Worse

betterorworse

Before I dive in here today it’s going to be important to put things into perspective with respect to an Old Married Guy becoming Red Pill aware and then applying what he’s learned in his marriage. In the last few comment threads the discussion has veered to what exactly the state of “monogamy” (if it can be called that) will look like in the next few decades given Red Pill awareness, Open Hypergamy, the progression of technologies that conflict with (or exacerbate) our evolved capacity to reproduce, etc.

The conversation tends to be a back and forth between what a more feasible and pragmatic approach to long-term relationships might be. The Young Single Guys make a (rather convincing) case for some form of men reserving the option of non-exclusivity; to take on short term lovers should the opportunity present itself – even if for just protecting a man’s state of Frame. Dread, being what it is, would necessarily be a mutually understood cornerstone of this arrangement.

The OMGs who’ve had the benefit of experience with respect to living with women (and in some cases divorces), rearing children (for better or worse) then offer up the realities of what a pLTR might be limited by with respect to actually living in an arrangement like this and the legal ramifications it leaves men open to.

Hashing out what Marriage 3.0 will or should look like is a discussion I’ll reserve for the next essay. For now I think it’s going to be important for that debate to recognize that since Red Pill awareness, in the intersexual respect, is a relatively new social awareness there’s always going to be differing experiences with it.

For the young men who’ve had the benefit of being Red Pill aware and learning Game, courtesy of communication technology and the experiences of countless other older men, it may sound kind of mundane when an Old Married Guy (OMG) finally ‘gets it’ after being Blue Pill for so long. But while you may never consider getting married in the future, you will no doubt get older and hopefully wiser in a way that your elders never had the benefit of. The reason I wrote Preventive Medicine was to do just this; to teach men what to expect from women and their sexual strategies and prioritization at their various phases of maturity. However, I would be remiss not to take into consideration what YSGs relate about the realities of today’s sexual marketplace. I think between us we have a very powerful knowledge-base.

As I said, for YSGs, it may seem mundane for a formerly Blue Pill OMG to kick up his wife’s sexual interest with his new Red Pill awareness, but consider that to him the Red Pill is an exciting answer to a long struggle. Likewise, an older guy reeling from an ugly divorce and rebuilding an even better life and sex life with Red Pill awareness is a fantastic feeling that I think is hard for YSGs to empathize with.

Instant Gratification

In my Stalling for Time essay I quoted reader YaReally and his understandable frustration with dealing with women in what’s become the modern sexual marketplace. I won’t re-quote it here, but the gist of it was how women of this generation are so predisposed to the attentions that social media offers them. The immediacy of social affirmation is just an Instagram post away and Beta orbiters are now a utility women simply take for granted.

It’s important to understand this in the light of how women’s psyches interpret instantaneous affirmation, as well as instantaneous indignation, attention and emotional consolation from both Beta orbiters and ‘you go girl’ girlfriends. I should also point out that there’s an even uglier side to this equation for women and girls who find themselves social outcasts. The cruel venom from haters is equally as instantaneous and likewise women’s evolved psyches struggle to process this.

As is the theme of this series, we have a situation wherein technological advancement outpaces human capacity to adequately process how it is affecting us. In this case we have women’s solipsistic nature that prevents the insight necessary to self-govern themselves with regard to how instant gratification of their base needs for attention is affecting their personalities and the decisions they make because of it. Prior to the communication age women’s need for interpersonal affirmation was generally limited to a small social circle and the opportunities to satisfy it were precious and private. It used to require far more investment on the part of women to connect interpersonally. But in the space of just two generations the social media age has made this affirmation an expect part of a woman’s daily life.

On top of this, we find ourselves in a time when feminine-primacy in our social structure makes criticizing or even making casual, constructive, observations of this self-gratifying vanity on par with misogyny for men. Women cannot hear what men wont tell them, and women have far less incentive to self-examine the consequences of what this affirmation-satisfying attention is working in them.

The Open Hypergamy Future

I get what the Young Single Guys are saying, I really do. I linked this article in a recent comment and after reading through it and author’s blog I can’t help but sympathize with the YSG’s grasp of the modern dating scene and how utterly hopeless it is for men to expect anything less than complete, life altering despair from the prospect of marriage. There is no upside to monogamous commitment, but the real kicker is that this condition is what women plan for and would hope for their own daughters.

Now, I understand Emma Johnson is another click-bait outrage broker, but is the sentiment her reader relates in raising her daughter to expect to be a single mother as an ideal state all that difficult or shocking to believe from women in this era?

My dream for my daughter is that she be in a loving relationship, and have a good ex-husband who really does a great job with the kids, 50 percent of the time.

People forget the joys of divorce — sharing your kids without guilt and having alone/me time.

[…]I also have time to exercise, enjoy vacations that are relaxing and involve lots of book-reading, and I have had time to nurture a relationship with my new husband, with fewer of the stresses of blended families.

The idealized state is one in which I outlined in The Myth of the Good Guy:

The problem with this ‘Good Guy’ myth is not because men can’t or wouldn’t want to try to balance women’s Hypergamy for them, but simply because women neither want nor expect that balance in the same man to begin with.

This is a new step in Open Hypergamy, the acknowledgement and proud embrace of women’s Hypergamous sexual strategy is not enough. The open expectation that one man will father and support her children while another will satisfy her sexually and appreciatively is not enough. The plan is literally to raise a young woman to adulthood with the expectation of her raising another child without a father/husband in her life and the child’s. We’re left to presume that the preferred norm for raising boys will be in teaching them it’s their responsibility to accommodate this norm.

The plan is not simply to end the Sandbergian plan for Hypergamy with the “Equal partner, someone who thinks women should be smart, opinionated and ambitious who values fairness and expects or, even better, wants to do his share in the home.” The plan is to leave that well-providing Beta once he’s been locked into indefinite utility and take up with a sexier husband with fewer parental stresses.

Yet, despite the overtness of women’s Hypergamy, men still have an idealistic hope that the worst predations of women wont happen to them. Read this woman’s post, sift through her other posts; she’s despicable, calculating, duplicitous and would put the knife in your back she told you she would,…but she’s also honest.

Whether by our conditioning or some intrinsic idealism, we want to believe in the earnestness of the Old Set of Books in the face of New Book women openly telling us “You stupid men, this is what we plan to do to you from the outset. Naked, open Hypergamy and all its machinations is what I will teach my daughters and grand daughters to do to your sons and grandsons. And you will take it and accept your Alpha Fucks or Beta Bucks roles in all of it because you’ll never get past your inherent idealism that we might not do all of this.”

We want to believe this woman is an outlier, but by order of degree, we know that whether it’s with softly spoken, loving words or a mommy blog that triumphantly yells these truths, women’s opportunistic concept of love will never align with our idealistic concept of love.

Primary LTRs

The arrangement this woman is hoping will be her daughter’s adult life is not too far different from what YaReally was suggesting about pLTRs; a primary long term relationship with a direct or indirect understanding that a man could take other lovers as fits him. He’s not the first to suggest the pLTR scheme as a workaround for marriage or raising a family sans marriage or binding commitment. And if Emma Johnson (or the reader she’s quoted) is to be believed this would be her own ideal relationship, albeit from the perspective of a woman retaining total Frame control.

Even a PUA like Mystery believed he could maintain a literal harem in some kind of live-in pLTR. And then there are the men who subscribe to the Charles Bukowski school of intersexual relations – in the right socioeconomic conditions this pLTR is realtively possible, but I think this is a poor substitute for what, as men we’d like to be an ideal, reciprocal marriage in which men can expect respect, desire, love, honor and all the other words no woman could ever hope to recite from their marriage vows.

I’ve locked horns with more than a few women who want to take me to task over my debating that human beings are not naturally monogamous. From a social perspective, loose monogamy and women’s inherent need for cuckoldry has always conflicted with our more or less successful human progress based on monogamous marriage. This is changing right along with the latest technologies that afford it to. As such, men are also forced to adapt and improvise with women’s inabilities to process these changes and the rapidity with which the next ones occur.

The old gals always like to tout that western society is the result of our agrarian roots and monogamous way of life. This is ironic since it’s women themselves who’ve fought tooth and nail to destroy exactly this ‘successful’ set up. Ruthless, open Hypergamy is now something to be proud of; something to instruct our daughters to utilize for their own solipsistic, selfish betterment at men’s expense – and to feel no shame for it, but rather expect it as the future norm.

It’s now time for men to either accept and adapt to this, or to form our own response to it in a way that not only benefits our interests, but the interests of women who can no longer process these changes without mens’ direct instruction. In Our Sisters’ Keeper I explored the notion that women of today are merely the women we deserve because men have kept their counsel about the affairs of women. We’ve got the women we deserve because our silence, and the silence of our forbearers, was the voice of complicity. Now we’ve come so far that women will send a man to jail or the unemployment office, or a paternity court rather than hear a man criticize her inability to process social changes that harm not only her but the larger social order.

There must come a point where men must unapologetically correct women for the betterment of society. Today this is a bold statement, one that could likely bring consequences to man’s life, but it’s only a bold thought because we’ve allowed women and their imperatives define the Frame of our social order for so long now. The socio-intersexual conditions we find ourselves in today are the direct result of women’s inability to process rapid social changes. As men we need to collectively recognize this. We need to recognize also that our social state is the result of allowing women to set a social framework that indentures men, that calls single motherhood and Hypergamous choices normative ideals.

We also need to recognize that we will be reviled for presuming some patriarchal control or male privilege, but we must have the confidence to set this aside in the knowledge that we now understand that women cannot cope with post-modern social and technological changes.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Sentient
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I ask YOU what do YOU have and you say:

“It’s fascinating how against even the DISCUSSION you guys are. ”

oh the laughter… I’m about to piss myself…

I will take that as you have nothing…

YaReally
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@Sentient
“I ask YOU what do YOU have and you say:”

Check the marriage thread, I started laying out a ton of stuff with Anonymous Reader and Trent Lane.

Oh right, you didn’t read any of that. You were too busy waving your dick around.

Blaximus
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” You’ve said nothing that men can apply to 2016’s culture that we don’t already know. You guys are ridiculous. “WHY WON’T YOU GUYS LISTEN TO US” “Because what you’re saying isn’t relatable” “BUT WHY WON’T YOU LISTEN TO US??” “Because what you’re saying isn’t relatable” “BUT JUST LISTEN TO US” and on and on. Either make an effort to understand the world we’re dealing with when we try to explain it to you, or accept that your advice is going to be of limited usefulness to men.” Speaking for myself, I’ve never said ” why don’t you guys listen… Read more »

Blaximus
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” It’s fascinating how against even the DISCUSSION you guys are. We have to climb uphill just to even TRY to discuss it. If this were any other forum about any other subject I would call you paid shills trying to squash discussion. But sadly it’s just massively invested and conditioned egos instead.”

YaReally
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@Blaximus
We aren’t rejecting your advice, we’re saying it’s significantly harder to apply in the current culture than it was for you. You’re the one who takes that personally as “WHY ARE YOU REJECTING MY ADVICE”.

Blaximus
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You won’t know if you refuse to try…..

The Question
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@ Sentient By practical I mean realistic. What works for one man does not work for another. Rollo Tomassi can correct me if I’m wrong, but I think this is why he is so reluctant to be prescriptive in his writing. It’s a very careful road to walk. If you want to offer general advice it usually has to be on the philosophical groundwork rather than specifics. It is also hard to offer advice without assuming some part of your own life experience is the same as others. It may not. A man who is not married, has no kids,… Read more »

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@Blaximus
“You won’t know if you refuse to try…..”

For what benefit that we can’t get without legal marriage or promised monogamy? Sounds smarter to try a different system that doesn’t have such shitty odds (that are continuing to plummet every year)

kfg
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“Sounds smarter to try a different system that doesn’t have such shitty odds (that are continuing to plummet every year)”

Move to Detroit?

Blaximus
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” For what benefit that we can’t get without legal marriage or promised monogamy? Sounds smarter to try a different system that doesn’t have such shitty odds (that are continuing to plummet every year)”

See????
Lol.

I never said anything about marriage or monogamy. Not once.

You’ve repeated this a hundred times. Usually when you say it to me, I’ve never even mentioned neither of those things.

Yet, you continue to do this. Hmmmm…. why is that?

http://www.michaelwosnick.com/CancerResearch/wp-content/uploads/circular-argument_thumb.png

theasdgamer
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@YaReally

OMG WE ARE PUSSIFYING THEM TEACHING THEM TO AVOID RISKS LIKE PUAS A REAL MAN WOULD JUST RUN INTO THE MIDDLE OF TRAFFIC WITH HIS EYES CLOSED.

Nope. We are teaching men how to MITIGATE risks, not merely to AVOID them. Lots of PUAS go bareback despite the risks. They are crossing the street without looking.

We are arguing over mitigation strategies applicable to 2016.

Sentient
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Yareally

You seem awfully interested in dick and dick waving…?

Blaximus
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Mitigating risks is fine. I have zero problem with that. Having children is a different matter. I know this because I am a father, and I know other fathers. I have experience – 30 years and counting. Avoiding risks when becoming a father is not possible, even if it was a one night stand and you don’t remember her name. Since there is no ” benefit ” in marriage in 2016 ( it is utterly impossible.,..anything pointing to the contrary is unproven anectdote..evidently ), can a man avoid risk by having a child out of wedlock? No. There are still… Read more »

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Oh yeah, I forgot to mention… In 2016, no body gives a fuck about fathers/baby daddys. Know who does give a fuck? The child. So if one is not prepared to walk though fire for their kid, then don’t have one, even on spec. Baby momma might appreciate you ( lol…appreciation ), or she might decide to blow you up. Once that child is born, you must give no real fucks about how mean and cruel you are being treated. You have a living responsibility. It is NOT about you fully anymore. Sure, you still must maintain MPO. but your… Read more »

theasdgamer
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@YaReally

We aren’t rejecting your advice, we’re saying it’s significantly harder to apply in the current culture than it was for you.

I don’t think that shrew-taming is any harder today than it was back in Shakespeare’s day. Unless men in Shakespeare’s day had stronger frames than men in the 20-30 yo range, in which case they need to do some self-improvement.

Married women shit-tested men back in Shakespeare’s day likely no less than they do today. Else, why did Shakespeare write “The Taming of the Shrew”?

Blaximus
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Now. I’m going to wave my dick for a few minutes….

rugby11
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Blaximus
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One last thing just for the hell of it.

Both my daughters first words were ” daddy ” ( or da-da )

Make of that what you will.

Lol.

kfg
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“And, depending on your state, you may be on the hook for 20-21 years of support if the child attends college.” That may now be 24 in some cases, through Masters degree. “Remember, your support amount is based on your salary.” That may be what the court rules your salary ought to be. Hence the men in jail for being out of work. This one bites certain professions, like acting and real estate sales, hard. Income is highly variable, but the court will likely demand that you make peak earnings forever. “There are no easy, hack answers in this at… Read more »

Razorwire
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@YaReally
“c’mon just run into it and accept that half of you are going to be blown to bits, while we sit here relaxing because we grew up in a different environment”.

kfg
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“I don’t think that shrew-taming is any harder today than it was back in Shakespeare’s day.”

In Shakespeare’s day it wasn’t something like 20 criminal acts, some of them federal, and thus falling under the frame of the FBI, with no statute of limitation.

And anyone can report it, not just her.

stuffinbox
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@Yareally

First off forget about statistics 80% of stats are invented on the spot maybe even this one.
Second if you want to test woman pick one,spend 72 hrs straight with her and see what happens.
Then if all goes well take a road trip with her and say a 3yo and a 7yo child,see how this goes,by the end of it all you especially should be able to write a whole book on pltr game with children.

Blaximus
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One last time, with feeling, before I go away for the night. Readers and lurkers ( lend me your ears…or eyes ) Dealing with women on any serious level will require certain things from you in order for you to be successful, however you define *success*. I assume we all can agree on that point, especially if y’all are reading Rollo. Not all men will be successful with women. I know, I know, it’s fucked up, but this has always been so. No one can guarantee a man success with women at all, but there are a multitude of things… Read more »

theasdgamer
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@kfg I’ve dealt with cops, worked with cops, I’ve been involved in 3 court cases and won all 3. In one I was charged with a felony. I know my way around the legal system. It’s also important to understand that cops respond well to frame and female cops to game just like any woman. Female judges as well, but you have to calibrate carefully with any female in authority. If you’re isolated on your honeymoon like Petruchio and Katerina were, ain’t nobody gonna report you; your wife sure as hell won’t if you game her properly. I’ve done stuff… Read more »

Colbert
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@OMG vs. YSG, “Game mitigates risk tremendously.” This quote by asdgamer is what everyone agrees on and is what makes this site valuable for it’s readers. From Rollo’s pieces to the various comments and the FR’s; the different views here help different men in different circumstances. I already weighed in some time back on what I thought of the current situation – no need to repeat. I find agreement from everyone that marriage is not what it used to be and is a bad deal nowadays even for Brad Pitt – lol. Honestly, I think I see much more agreement… Read more »

Sentient
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The Question “By practical I mean realistic. What works for one man does not work for another. Rollo Tomassi can correct me if I’m wrong, but I think this is why he is so reluctant to be prescriptive in his writing. It’s a very careful road to walk. If you want to offer general advice it usually has to be on the philosophical groundwork rather than specifics. It is also hard to offer advice without assuming some part of your own life experience is the same as others. It may not. A man who is not married, has no kids,… Read more »

newlyaloof
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@Rollo, YaReally, Blax, Sentient, Scray, and everyone else: TL DR – Buy the book Shadow Men. If your mind was blown by red pill knowledge that revealed hypergamy and its workings, read this book to see where it, feminism, and all the other shit storms that afflict America and the world originated and are taking us. Even if you’re well read, I assure you, you’ll learn a ton. Some highlights from the book: 1. Social mobility is getting out of control for both Negro and Caucasian traditional families living in America. Our advisors inform us that a solution is available… Read more »

Culum Struan
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YaReally Sentient HABD Wala Scray Hank Forge Tom & PUA Gang Night out solo at big club with student vibe (it’s not actually a student night – they are just popular with students/early 20s crowd plus a few older people). I don’t even know what to say, really. Progress? Yes. I’m improving bit by bit each day. But it’s just really slow and frustrating and more so without a decent wing to help my state. And I really enjoy it when I take action. I enjoyed last night – overall my state was good. Overall I enjoyed myself and wasn’t… Read more »

Novaseeker
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About the kids stuff, Blax is right. There really isn’t a way around it. The rules of the world, including its laws, are what they are, and they inform behaviors. You can mitigate risks with your own behavior, of course, but you aren’t fundamentally changing the system unless, well, you change the system itself. The law gets involved with you the second you sire a child, and it’s pretty coercive. If you want to avoid that, you avoid having children. If you want children, then you are subject to the law, and you are subject to behaviors of others that… Read more »

Colbert
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@ kfg,

I’m pretty sure these people weren’t kale eating hipsters – just sayin (we won’t discuss what happened to the newborn baby in the book).

[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZsKCGE9FKU&w=560&h=315%5D

Sentient
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Culum well this is better, but still no leading. You are still close though… ++++++++ ““Hey did you see us dancing on the stage a while ago?” “I went with “No” because I didn’t want to overinflate their importance by admitting I’d seen them.” A and A that shit… A and A is fun… This was too much in your head ego battle… A venue like this is about fun… spread some good feelz… “We are having a competition we want to know who’s the best dancer”. At this point about 3 of them are paying attention to me, the… Read more »

Mineter
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OMGs like me are usually (sure, not always, but the exception doesn’t make the rule) are the semi visible shipwrecks that indicate an area of treacherous sailing. YSGs are meant to heed the warning, and not sail there. Then, again, said shipwrecks could be marked out with buoys, lights and horns, and some sailor will think “fucking idiot couldn’t sail for shit. MY boat is newer, I sail differently, I’ve got the latest tech and navigation, today’s weather is different, I will sail there and show that idiot how it’s done.” Fine. Be my guest. I tend to think that… Read more »

Is This Thing On?
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Can we call you a MGTOW yet Rollo?

Seriously though, there is a reason why we find no anthropological evidence of successful matriarchy. They simply can not exist. This is the path we are on. I don’t think anything else can be done about it. Western civilization will be history in less than a hundred years. I think the only thing left for red pill men to do is pick the next ascending patriarchy and evacuate.

Blaximus
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Yes. We have been overrun by Amazonian Super Women. With smartphones.

Abandon civilization asap.

Resistance is futile.

Colbert
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@ Blax,

“Yes. We have been overrun by Amazonian Super Women. With smartphones.”

Don’t complain Blax! At least they’re not cannibals. They probably eat A LOT of kale though.

Blaximus
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Lol.

I’m not complaining. Just stating Teh Facts.

Colbert
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I swear, I think smart phones are man slave devices dreamed up by the Rockefellers and the Rothchilds for women to control their men in the NWO. No RFID chip implantation is necessary for total Beta control. He who controls the women controls the men.

Novaseeker
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Seriously though, there is a reason why we find no anthropological evidence of successful matriarchy. They simply can not exist. This is the path we are on. I don’t think anything else can be done about it. Western civilization will be history in less than a hundred years. I think the only thing left for red pill men to do is pick the next ascending patriarchy and evacuate. Possible, but the issue is whether it can work, at least for an extended period of time, in a context where scarcity is unknown, prosperity is the norm, and technology has largely… Read more »

kfg
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@Newly Aloof: Some of us did not come to take the Red Pill by the usual method. I have not read Shadow Men, I have read the books that Napoleon read in order to write his book, beginning as a child (my principle entry point was trying to figure out why school sucked so bad it amounted to child abuse). Those books have been hidden away in a special repository where hardly anyone will ever find them. It goes by the secret code name, “Public Library.” We have reached the point where most of the shadow men act right out… Read more »

Fred Flange and his Rhythm & Melody
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Ho! Ha! He!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3806348/New-order-daddy-app-lets-women-browse-950-sperm-donors-easily-shopping-online-Marks-Spencer.html#ixzz4LGsvmNTa

You may be a rational male, but are you an Altruistic Man?

– Close the Fap Gap! –

kfg
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” . . . are you an Altruistic Man?”

I presume the men get paid. They are also assured that their genetic line continues, which, ultimately, is really all that counts.

walawala
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@Culum Great report. The good stuff needs no further commentary just keep it up. The “bad stuff”—a few things. With the bush pigs that open you–you’re too much inside you’re head here. Just game them for practice. It’s easier to try “new material” or just talk to a fatty. It just gets you more calm for the hotties. Think of it as ‘training wheels’…if you can get comfortable talking to ANYONE…then you AA will not be a problem. You’ll be so smooth that it won’t matter: fatty or HB7 and above. I got good by talking to every type of… Read more »

Fred Flange and his Rhythm & Melody
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@kfg “I presume the men get paid. They are also assured that their genetic line continues, which, ultimately, is really all that counts.” Do tell! Yes they get paid, so do US donors. But if sprog has a product defect, mommy sues clinic to get donor info, then donor gets sued for child support which he has to PAY PAY PAY since he’s bio-dad. Some clinics, knowing this scares off the customers, try to assure the men all personal info is erased. But in some places it can’t be. Suppose there’s a genetic tendency that turns up, like a marker… Read more »

kfg
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@Fred:

Yep, and I have warned men about this.

I could write up one hell of an attractive bio, without even dissembling too much (although it would pretty much dox me), but I am myself excluded from the market on genetic grounds.

Sentient
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Culum A good overview of body language… after all the big booty dance segment… LOL https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jq-vNbSM3gI These are subtle IOIs and interactions you may be missing, forcing you to eject too early… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qm6HtZlUCAk And Julien on avoiding “social robot” game… and getting in your own way… and getting out of that spiral… My own experience has led now to going only to places I enjoy going to and having a good time… and I know just about every time I go out I will have a good time… but it was work to get there. One time I was out… Read more »

A Wise Man
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ZFG! Men must give zero fucks in the face of our indentured servitude to the Feminine Imperative. Our biggest obstacle are the white knight pussy worshipping manginas who don’t get it and probably never will. These pathetic men have always been with us and always will be. Sniveling little worms who bow down to every woman they come in contact with, even the fat ugly ones, because they think it will get them a pat on the back or if they’re lucky, get their peepees touched. These types of men would naturally die off in harder times, and women would… Read more »

Vic
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I’d honestly like to know what the point of this is. Why are you turning the simplest axioms into something along the lines of a physics paper? 1. If a man has a strong passion or purpose in his life, then he won’t fall for these “traps”. If he ‘lives’ just for the woman then that shows he isn’t living a meaningful life. 2. People throughout history have noted that a man making a “woman/marriage” the reason detre for his existence is a foolish movie – those in the Christian faith have said love of God (or man’s spiritual purpose)… Read more »

kfg
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” . . . some ‘systems’ in nature such as weather are not an exact science . . .”

Human metabolism is another.

” . . . materialist rubbish as a worldview . . . eliminates love of God or higher purpose, leaving just the animal instinct left – and if that’ll all that’s left, what else is there to live for . . .”

http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0247/9431/products/crimson_08.jpg?v=1373589611

kfg
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Bugger, failed to delete the tracker:

http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0247/9431/products/crimson_08.jpg

rugby11
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Blaximus

Vic
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His nothing to do with faith, I’ve studied world religions and regardless of the creed, this seems to be recurring theme – whether in Buddhism, Christianity, etc.

Seems that the knowledge of some ‘higher power’ or ‘purpose’ is a universal thing and not specific to just one religion, this also seems to be a powerful motivating force behind the actions of great men.

So when modern culture decides to abandon purpose this leaves nothing left but amusement of the animal instinct.

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I personally am not aware of any great men who viewed themselves as just another ‘animal’ in a meaningless world – whether Winston Churchill, Ben Franklin, Sun Tzu or otherwise. That’s not how great men think, so advocating a mindset which seems to be at odds with all the actual qualities of accomplish and ‘alpha men’ seems to be rather oxymoronic. (Not to mention the notion in which all of human desire is reducible to the animal impulses of the ego – as opposed to the ego just being a facet of the entire being, is based on flawed logic… Read more »

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Vic
“Seems that the knowledge of some ‘higher power’ or ‘purpose’ is a universal thing and not specific to just one religion, this also seems to be a powerful motivating force behind the actions of great men.
So when modern culture decides to abandon purpose this leaves nothing left but amusement of the animal instinct.”
What if both created something beautiful?
The Professor and the Madman
http://amzn.to/2dwXu0H

having a bad day
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@Culum props on getting in field… having said that… hmmmm, head slap or phineas and ferb?… can’t decide…lol soo, i’ll just ask did you at LEAST think ‘threesome’ on the blonde/brunette situ in the club?…lol… you know ALL of this stuff… you just have to get out of your own way… you are still trying to go with the BP version of ‘pua’… where girls do most of the work…AND where the focus in NOT on actual SEX as the main goal…lol… (my guess is that you didn’t feel like a walking hard-on in that club…lol) a couple points: what… Read more »

DisgruntledEarthling
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@blaximus
“One last thing just for the hell of it.
Both my daughters first words were ” daddy ” ( or da-da )”

Very cool dude. Says much about you. smile

Sentient
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Culum Another thing you might do is break out of this “game on / game off” mindset and start just incorporating a base level of “game” into all your male/female interactions, towards developing an abundance mindset and really believing you, just you as you are, have tremendous value. Run some low level game on every girl you meet. It’s something that just builds on itself. For example, when I am in town, I run a background level of flirtatious on the edge game. All the girls I meet, strangers, waitresses, bartenders etc etc get a shot. all from the perspective… Read more »

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HABD – nice stuff… we are thinking at the same time…

come on Culum!

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@Vic: Hunters do not have a hunting religion because the religion inspires them to hunt. They get hungry, go on a hunt, and then develop a religion around their animal practice. Grain growers did not start planting grains because they were inspired by religion. They planted grains, then formed a religion around that practice. Judaism developed as a means to provide social cohesion to a people who had lost it. There is evidence to suggest that the Quran did not inspire the Arabs to sweep out of the desert to conquer the world, but rather that the Quran was written… Read more »

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@culum aight, i don’t think I’ve ever given you a breakdown, so here goes: -cute HB7 bartender recognised me from the brief chat we had when I attended last week and I got a big smile and good service -Didn’t get stuck into my phone or my head (much better overall than the exhausted daze I was in on Saturday) -Generally good body language and attitude..reflected in a number of approach invites and PAIMAI at bar etc and good reactions and decent opens. This bit was really interesting because I did a similar number of opens as I did at… Read more »

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“We are having a competition we want to know who’s the best dancer”. At this point about 3 of them are paying attention to me . . .”

Careful, Dude. That’s the way the Trojan War started.

The Question
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@ Sentient

Thanks for sharing your story. I just started my first LLC a few months back. I have zero business acumen so it’s been a very interesting learning experience.

theasdgamer
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@Sentient

I dropped out of college, no degree, and five figure sin debt

Father Guido Sarducci has some thoughts for you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7ykYHwG5i4

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Good luck Question. enjoy the ride wherever it leads you. By all means DO NOT TAKE PARTNERS OR INVESTORS…

Scray – yes boyfriend posture kino FTW. It is really so powerful and provides comfort at the same time.

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@ rugby11

Thanks for the clip.

[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2m6Jvp0bUw&w=383&h=306%5D

I have actually seen this play twice on Broadway.

Now, I will watch the movie also.

Forge the Sky
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@Culum Ya seeing a theme here? How’s this for a goal – when you get attraction from a girl lead her somewhere else – just any excuse. Lead her to a more private place, a more quiet place, or even just to the bar so she can be doing something ‘with’ you – and then boom, you’re ‘together.’ Two of ’em? Lead them both, or just be like ‘two seconds, two seconds’ if her friend protests. Bigger set? Get them to like you then focus on the target for a bit and do the same thing. If the girl resists,… Read more »

Vanir (@Vanir85)
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I expect this to be deleted. Just want to say I hope the feds are watching this site – quite a number of potential kidnappers and abusers happily “debating” how to best isolate and brainwash women – fucking sick.

You twisted creepos are why I support the 2. amendment.

Can’t wait til the day the world is free of your misogynist bullshit.

Forge the Sky
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Holy shit the white knight’s gravatar is even a medieval helmet.

Blaximus
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@ Colbert “Game mitigates risk tremendously.” This quote by asdgamer is what everyone agrees on and is what makes this site valuable for it’s readers. From Rollo’s pieces to the various comments and the FR’s; the different views here help different men in different circumstances. I already weighed in some time back on what I thought of the current situation – no need to repeat. I find agreement from everyone that marriage is not what it used to be and is a bad deal nowadays even for Brad Pitt – lol. Honestly, I think I see much more agreement then… Read more »

Vanir (@Vanir85)
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“Holy shit the white knight’s gravatar is even a medieval helmet.” Right Speaking up against woman-hating sociopaths makes one a “white knight” or whatever. I’m sure I’m also a cuck, feminazi, mangina, fag, beta, omega, or whatever other labels you put on ppl who don’t toe the male supremacist line. IDGAF Reading here it’s not hard to see why some women would consciously opt for singe-motherhood. You creeps even existing, means women are smart to make plans that could be carried out independently from men. Better going it solo than risk having to be involved with any of you creeps.… Read more »

Random Angeleno
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I’m following these FR’s with interest. I can get IOI’s now and then, trouble I have is with AA (need to get out of my head!) and with taking her someplace else. I like social partner dancing and there are non-verbal subcomms one can get good at when doing this. For instance, yareally’s advice about laser eye contact is very good here. Also dancing gives excellent opportunities for kino in which I can DHV. But I don’t handle conversations in loud places very well at all and was asking myself how do I get past that. Well almost by accident… Read more »

theasdgamer
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Rapey rape rape, lol @Vanir

theasdgamer
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Misandrists gonna hate, lol.

Blaximus
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” I expect this to be deleted. Just want to say I hope the feds are watching this site – quite a number of potential kidnappers and abusers happily “debating” how to best isolate and brainwash women – fucking sick.

You twisted creepos are why I support the 2. amendment.

Can’t wait til the day the world is free of your misogynist bullshit.”

Holy shit Batman!!!

Did I just receive a covert threat from Vanir??

Creepos??? Lol, wtf???

Hey, I support the 2nd amendment actively also. Just so you know….

And I also support the 1st amendment. Actively.

Sentient
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Heh heh

This Vanir troll calls itself a feminist…

Vanir
@Vanir85
Feminist. Social liberal. Radical absolute democrat. Everything must be (and is) up for the vote, except the vote itself, as it’s the basis of all other rights

theasdgamer
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@Angeleno

I had already established my non-verbal dominance during the dance so she was ready to comply.

Was she “lit up”? If so, you could have given comfort, then gone for a kiss.

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” Reading here it’s not hard to see why some women would consciously opt for singe-motherhood. You creeps even existing, means women are smart to make plans that could be carried out independently from men. Better going it solo than risk having to be involved with any of you creeps. Women owe you nothing, and you do not own them. Get over it.” I laugh up your sleeve. Trolls in effect today. I’ve owned a few women. Nothing wrong with that. they volunteered for ownership. I will spare you the sordid details. But calling me a ” creep “…. Oh… Read more »

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For the record, I don’t hate women. I love women. Even more than they love themselves.

And my psychiatrist says I am no longer technically a sociopath, so there.

Forge the Sky
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Hey Vanir, perhaps you could consider that spending time reading sites you hate and posting contemptuous comments accomplishes little except providing you with surges of sweet, sweet righteous indignation. It’s not a thing that productive people do.

Don’t you have a choir to preach to? I’m sure they’ll appreciate having their biases validated just as much as you’ll enjoy feeling superior to a hated outgroup.

Fuckin eh, the hindbrain is strong in this one.

scribblerg
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Again, so much here in the comments and I simply do not have time to catch up. Been skimming, and many good thoughts by all, thanks. But here’s the thing that all of you – including Rollo – don’t want to face. @KFG – it’s not that women are thinking 10 moves ahead, lol, please, most women can’t think 3 moves ahead strategically. But what they know is that they hold the trump card. Men are bio programmed to want to fuck women intensely and to want to reproduce – in other words they hold cash and prizes we don’t… Read more »

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a@YaReally et all

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3801449/Pickup-artists-guilty-rape-woman-finds-blog-men-bragged-attacking-online.html#ixzz4LT0K6kaM

Interested in your opinion, but Tyler really should execute more quality control.

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“Everything must be (and is) up for the vote . . .”

But if you vote wrong, I’ll shoot you.

” . . . the vote itself, as it’s the basis of all other rights”

Incorrect. The vote is itself a dependent consequence of the right to self defense.

Nor is it a right, but a privilege of citizenship (if you are a Vermonter, you cannot vote in New York, whereas your rights apply in both states).

Interestingly, the historical record shows democratic societies eventually voting democracy out of existence. The original Tyrants were elected.

gb_hill
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Also, a very good post from Krauser a few years ago:

https://krauserpua.com/2012/11/30/game-theory-has-its-own-life-cycle/

He’s actually gone full in on the “Galt Game” model. I wonder if he realizes that.

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” @KFG – it’s not that women are thinking 10 moves ahead, lol, please, most women can’t think 3 moves ahead strategically. ”

See Rollo’s Dictum.

However, we are both aware that the original planners were men.

Men, however, who it had taken the FI centuries to produce to be sufficiently feminized to craft a plan to advance the interests of the FI.

And around we go.

theasdgamer
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@scrib

Excellent post!

I would add

5. Advances in medicine to your list…plastic surgery and hormonal therapy.

Random Angeleno
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@asdgamer
Was she “lit up”? If so, you could have given comfort, then gone for a kiss.

What should I be looking for that usually indicates “lit up”?

Fred Flange and his Rhythm & Melody
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Why it’s Mr/Mz/Mx. Vanir, our very first 8 chan troller all the way from Minsk! Hi. Open for Maintenance Alignment. Claims to be a “social liberal” but obviously never studied civics. Says “radical absolute democrat” but probably never voted for shit. Certainly never worked on a campaign, or canvassed, or registered anyone to vote. But really likes that 2. Amendment. Bang bang, shoot shoot. Yeah well like Blax I prefer the 1.Amendment. Here’s the Nine O’clock News: white knighting in White Satin won’t persuade women to get jiggy with you. True, we don’t own them. You don’t own them either.… Read more »

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Novaseeker on the next step Why would these guys go along with this? Again, the change will be gradual, not sudden. It will gradually be peddled as being “not uptight” and “not controlling” and “modern” to accept that “no person can satisfy all of another person’s needs” and, importantly, it won’t be peddled as cucking, but rather as mutually open (which it will be in theory as well), and there will be tremendous social pressure on guys to conform to this emergent new norm. Sentient Where i disagree with this is the feeling in the ballz… No matter how hard… Read more »

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@gb_hill Holy shit! I mean, if the forum post they quoted is real that is pretty damning. Frankly I’m surprised, Alex seemed like a pretty chill dude. Just got a bunch of guys together who egged each other on and got caught up in a sense of power, and did something pretty damn stupid as a result. Did no-one teach them about aftercare? They literally just went “haha, we gangbanged your slut friend” to her girlfriend? Like http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/004/592/my-brain-is-full-of-fuck.jpg even if she was OK with the situ before, she HAS to see it as her being raped after that. And who… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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“I refer the honorable gentlecreature….”

Ha!

Forge the Sky
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Alex seemed like a pretty chill dude

My mistake, I was thinking of RSD Todd. Don’t know who this Alex dude is. Rest of comment still applies.

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Novaseeker About the kids stuff, Blax is right. There really isn’t a way around it. The rules of the world, including its laws, are what they are, and they inform behaviors. You can mitigate risks with your own behavior, of course, but you aren’t fundamentally changing the system unless, well, you change the system itself. The law gets involved with you the second you sire a child, and it’s pretty coercive. I Because the nature of the marriage contract in the US was changed some time back (yes, kfg, we can argue if you wanna) to a child support model,… Read more »

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@AR: “Because the nature of the marriage contract in the US was changed some time back (yes, kfg, we can argue if you wanna) to a child support model, and thanks to legal changes in the 1990’s it’s punitive.”

Do you have a particular subject in mind?

Blaximus
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@ Forge I admire the job most PUA’s do, and I believe that many men have been helped by them. IMO, the 2 raping knuckleheads don’t say much about the PUA establishment. No broad brushing here. Believe it or not, I only recently became aware of PUA’s. I did watch a few episodes of the tv show that Mystery was involved in years ago, but it was only a curiosity at the time. I was fascinated that pua’s had codified a way to pick up women. I’m still kinda fascinated by the notion. Buuuttt….. There is much more to picking… Read more »

Culum Struan
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@Forge – the Alex mentioned here is just some dude who posted on the RSD forum and worked for some other random small pickup company. Nothing to do with the RSD company or the actual RSD instructor called Alex who presumably has the skills not to actually rape a girl like this guy did. We discussed this in the last post thread I think. @Sentient HABD Scray Wala Forge et al – thanks for the feedback. Still absorbing it but I think I get the point. Will circle back in a bit more detail in a couple days – Blitz… Read more »

Culum Struan
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@Blaximus – I agree with you but that ship has sailed. PUAs are already painted as misogynistic rapist assholes and this trial and these two rapists (despite the fact that they literally did everything PUA teaching tells you NOT to do) have made it worse. This Vanir guy is a troll, but his posting is a pretty accurate depiction of how the mainstream views PUA – why do you think I’m so careful not to reveal my location or doxxing details? Or why YaReally asked Rollo to remove some obscure detail from a recent post or when Forge posted something… Read more »

Blaximus
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“.. because it serves the Female Imperative…..”

Why do I get the distinct feeling that some guys would rather sandpaper a tigers nuts than fight the FI influence?

http://img08.deviantart.net/7618/i/2015/101/c/0/angry_tiger___ballpoint_pen_by_vianaarts-d68doqw.jpg

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Matriarchy vs. matrilineal. Some nations have been matrilineal. Whether matriarchies ever existed for very long is an open question. Some insist that various Celtic tribes / nations were at least matrilineal, which leads me to this particular woman and the history around her: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boudica There’s some details that are interesting, like the rape of her daughters by Romans and the Roman lender Seneca calling in the loans to her father’s tribe / nation. Good thing stuff like that can’t happen anymore. Novaseeker’s point about resources is well summarized, we have more resources than ever before, and as a result women’s… Read more »

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