Well, dammit, here we go again. Just as I’m mid-way through another in-depth post I get stopped by something I can’t ignore. The above ‘post’ has been making the rounds on Twitter and more than a few in the ‘sphere have asked me for my take.
I probably would’ve just blown this off along with the few hundred other incidences of Beta guys (really Average Frustrated Chump in this instance) bemoaning the same lack of cooperation on the part of women to play along with their investment in the old set of books, that was however until I read through the predictable ‘Nice Shaming’ of Mark Pygas here.
“Good guys” are the absolute worst. If you’re going to go on an insane rant every time a woman tells you ‘no,’ you’re not a good guy.
Tumblr user Fenrufenrifenny recently spotted a flyer posted all around town that shamed women for not giving the “good guys a chance” and choosing “scum” men. Just a brief warning, it will probably be the worst thing you’ve ever read.
Proxy male femsplaining aside, no Mark, this isn’t worst thing I’ve ever read from a Nice Guy. In fact, just three years ago the ‘Nice Guys of OK Cupid‘ blog/hashtag made a point of running these Good Guys up the flagpole for the exact same frustrations of dealing with women in the most deductive, old rules way they’ve been taught to deal with women by their own words and conditioning.
You aren’t an original Mark, Hugo Schwyzer beat you to the Nice-Shaming-As-Beta-Game 4 years ago. And just like Hugo you make the same predictable assumptions about men expecting sex for niceties in an era where women exploit and advertise that men doing more chores and making women’s lives easier will lead to sex.
You see shaming Nice Guys for playing by the rules every woman has told him he ought to play by – since his single-mother or feminized father mentioned he should respect women by default to him since 5 years old – is the height of Hypergamous hypocrisy. Every time a woman, or a Vichy Male femsplainer, tells a guy “just be yourself‘ or “women love men who respect women” or in some other way convince him that women’s intimacy is best achieved by being the sensitive, understanding and supportive Beta they’ll need once they can no longer attract an Alpha asshole, all you do is reinforce the Nice Guy you now hate so much.
You see, you don’t get it both ways. You can’t shame and heap derision upon a Nice Guy for believing the same Old Books horse shit you’ve taught him will earn a woman’s favor and love. You don’t get to call him duplicitous when he believes all the “just be yourself” and “in the end women really want Nice men” tropes he’s been fed by the media mouths of a society that’s founded on women’s Hypergamy.
You may think this is some new development, but Nice Shaming has been going on for at least the 4 and a half years I’ve been blogging:
When truly nice guys (80-90% of the masculine sphere) read a line like “Nice Guys are the real jerks” something snaps in their heads. Black is white, up is down and Nice Guys are Jerks. Most Nice Guys have been playing the self-internalized Beta Game, identification scenario out for so long that to read something like this is akin to blaspheme. “Great now all these women I’ve been trying to be so nice too (like they all say they want) really think I’m a jerk?” One would think this would be a moment of clarity for the Nice Guy and he’d realize the truth of what his ‘misogynist’ Game-aware friends had been trying to enlighten him about for so long.
The only way to garner true appreciation, true valuation, truly inspired displays of affection, from women is to covertly imply the risk of losing a high-value Man. Whether the man is even truly of a higher value is irrelevant, only the perception needs to be reinforced for her. Risk of loss is all that factors. Risk of losing an investment in optimizing hypergamy is weighed against her own perceived sexual market value and the effort needed to reinvest in another, potentially higher SMV man. Risk of loss is why her imagination furiously spins the wheel in her head.
That sounds horrible, but the truth often is. Women’s lack of appreciation for the more compassionate natures of men, and their consuming regard for rewarding men that appease their hypergamy is so well proven it’s become predictable enough to develop techniques and behavioral modifications to exploit it (i.e. Game). Most guys would like nothing better than to honestly play the loving, white knight, romantic who women bemoan a lack of in the world. Yet for every sonnet composed, every provision met, every compliment delivered and every well planned candlelit dinner conversation, there’s a woman feverishly fucking her Alpha bad boy in his low rent apartment for fear of losing him to the competition.
However, all that reviewed, it’s good to return to the issues that never really die off, and particularly so in the case of Nice Shaming because as we progress further into a social order that’s become increasingly more comfortable in openly, proudly, embracing Hypergamy the more poignant messages like the one in this posted letter are. Really it’s nothing new for a guy steeped in Blue Pill conditioning to be frustrated with the new set of books on display right before his eyes, but as Open Hypergamy becomes more and more unignorable in real-space as well as in media and open expressions of it, the less men will vent these frustrations so publicly.
The time to worry wont be when guys post open letters like this in dorm hallways, the time to worry is when that ceases altogether.
Women’s continued inability to really understand why a Nice Guy would ever be so frustrated as to post a notice like this only highlights an obliviousness that serves their Hypergamous imperatives. In other words it’s not in women’s Hypergamous interests to understand or sympathize with a guy who’s brought their sexual strategy out into the open.
The reason Nice Shaming still persists after decades is that it actually serves the Feminine Imperative. If you read through the Twitter responses to this note they are all identical to, or variations of the response I’ve outlined in my previous ‘Nice’ guy posts for almost 5 years now. And if this doesn’t convince you that women have a vested interest in not getting why a guy would post such frustration, you can just read the real-time posted response to it:
If you’re watching some girl you like getting hurt by another guy STOP WHINING ABOUT IT AND DO SOMETHING. Don’t leave some anonymous note on a dorm wall. If you know someone is being hurt DO. SOME. THING.
If you want to play the “good guy” you need to rethink your intentions. If you’re only doing it for gratification, then you aren’t being the good guy. Did Batman give up on Gotham because people weren’t thanking him for saving the city?
You know what I really want? I want respect. I want people to respect that I’d rather not walk with a stranger in the middle of the night. I want people to respect that I can defend myself. I want people to respect that WOMEN CAN DO THINGS WITHOUT A GENTLEMAN TO HELP.
You want to be a gentlemen and a good guy? Start with changing the way you and other men see women. We aren’t fragile things you need to defend. We’re people. Keep holding doors open, keep being friendly, just don’t expect things in return; you aren’t owed anything by this world.
If you want us to be less afraid of the world, then change the world, don’t change us.
The obliviousness to the original message might seem staggering until you consider that it was likely typed out by a woman with a self-impression of female empowerment. The idea she’s addressing is that it’s the Nice Guy’s fault for not stepping in to “do something” while simultaneously claiming that “women can do things without a man’s help”. That alone would be enough to illustrate the mindset that would respond to a Nice Guy bemoaning women’s duplicity about ‘being Nice’, but she continues to miss the point that the dutiful ‘helping’ he’s offering isn’t help at all, but his disillusionment with his Blue Pill conditioning.
It’s likely he’s oblivious to it, but he’s publicly taken a step into Red Pill awareness and in doing so reveals women’s Hypergamous duplicity. Now, that is what it is, but that step into Red Pill awareness is something that makes women very uncomfortable when they don’t control the narrative about their own Hypergamy. It’s one thing to make Hypergamy ‘open’ in a commercial or in a book by an empowered woman, but let a man reveal it in his perspective and he’s “bitter” or it’s an “insane rant” by a Nice Guy who’s only Nice because he thinks it’ll get him laid.
As I was saying, in the future I expect to see less Nice Shaming as the machinations of Hypergamy becomes part of men’s popular consciousness. The result, like most others brought on by feminine social primacy, will be men taking women at their word – “women can do things without a man’s help” and they “aren’t fragile things you need to defend” – and they’ll get the men they deserve; men who will understand that niceties aren’t in fact exchangeable for appreciation, intimate or otherwise. Their attentions, courtesies and help will be reserved for the women who actually deserve and reciprocate it rather than due to it being some default chivalry that’s expected of them. And they’ll abandon the strong independent women (and even the ones who look like them) to their fates, while they cry about the lack of self-sacrificing ‘real men’ to love and help them when it’s convenient for them.
It’ll take a while. Obviously the same Nice Shaming from a decade ago still manifests like this occasionally, and the predictable “women don’t owe you sex” indignation is still the reflexive response. But as the old exchanges of the old rules are cycled out for the cruel, but accepted, realities that the Red Pill outlines, women will get exactly the men they deserve. Men who will give them respect based on their real personal merits and only offer niceties to the ones who wont spit in their faces or accuse them of sexual harassment for doing so.
As it stands now, Nice Shaming serves as a filter for women’s Hypergamy. The guys who Just Get It don’t post notes like this. Guys who get it learn from that frustration, they adapt, they experiment, they adjust and they develop Game to exploit the real intersexual rules in play, and they don’t make grandiose displays of the real game.
I got a link back this week from another backwater blogger who was critical of my, or really a Red Pill, take on an abundance vs. scarcity mentality. I haven’t really felt a need to review Plate Theory for a while now, but ever since Holistic Game’s coffee house protests went down it seems that picking and pulling various bits from my Plate Theory series is some novelty.
I’ve been writing in the manosphere for so long now that the same predictable straw men arguments and out of context quotes have become de rigueur now. Any objective observation of women’s sexual strategy by a man is always synonymous with misogyny.
What I’ve always found entertaining about Blue Pill critics of Plate Theory is that the concept of non-exclusivity always borders on the criminal when a man suggests men ought to pursue a non-exclusive dating (and sex), yet we hold women up as empowered, prudent and/or exemplary of bucking the repression of an imaginary patriarchy when they suggest the same.
Of course the quick retort to this is that women are ‘slut shamed’ for being non-exclusive, but this is simply an old, convenient, sidestep to shame men while distracting from women’s practical sexual strategy.
As Open Hypergamy becomes more embraced among women the usefulness of drawing attention to ‘slut shaming’ actually becomes a hinderance to justifying women’s Hypergamous priorities (AFBB). When a high profile woman like Sheryl Sandberg suggests,…
“When looking for a life partner, my advice to women is date all of them: the bad boys, the cool boys, the commitment-phobic boys, the crazy boys. But do not marry them. The things that make the bad boys sexy do not make them good husbands. When it comes time to settle down, find someone who wants an equal partner. Someone who thinks women should be smart, opinionated and ambitious. Someone who values fairness and expects or, even better, wants to do his share in the home. These men exist and, trust me, over time, nothing is sexier.”
Sandberg’s epitaph here is every bit as “objectifying” as anything you’ll find in the ‘sphere, but the difference is we are expected to find her advice for assuming a state of sexual abundance practical as well as refreshingly progressive. I’ve stated this before, but it bears repeating that as women more proudly, openly, embrace the uglier aspects of Hypergamy it will be women who will prove the validity of Red Pill awareness far better than men could. Sample from the largest available pool of prospective sexual experience (Alpha Fucks) and presume that an ‘equal partner’ (Beta Bucks) provisioner will make himself readily available to you when can no longer reliably attract the men who represent your sexual priorities.
I covered this in Plate Theory V: Lady’s Game; the natural extension of women’s sexual strategy is, at least practically, best served from a presumption of abundance. And as such we also find that the vast majority of feminine-primary social conventions center on facilitating this presumption of abundance for women. Pop culture, social media and a feminine-primary social narrative fosters an over-inflated SMV and an exaggerated sense of self-worth for women, but functionally it convinces women that they can perpetuate a condition of abundance with regard to their sexual viability almost indefinitely.
Even in a condition of committed monogamy that background sense of sexual abundance simmers in women’s subconscious. We laud women with the guts to pursue that abundance after divorce or even reward them with popularity and movie opportunities when they write books about pursuing it while married. Either that or we pat them on the back for their ability to continually move the goalposts and convince themselves and others that spinsterhood is a goal state they sought to achieve their entire lives.
In all of these instances, whether legitimate or not, there is an impression that women can perpetuate a condition of abundance for themselves – and often far past their true sexual market viability. One reason I draw the ire of many a Blue Pill male and women is because my breakdown of the predictable schedule women follow throughout their lives with regards to their SMV and their dualistic sexual strategy is that it directly confronts the doubt that they can perpetuate a condition of abundance in spite of their personal choices in life.
And that’s the crux of women’s self-affirming social and psychological conventions; to avoid any accountability for the fallout that may be caused by the choices Hypergamy has led them to make. Roissy came up with the maxim that the end goal of feminism is to maximally enable women’s sexuality while maximally restricting men’s – and of course the consolidation of that enabling of women’s sexual strategy must also account for absolving them of misgivings and mistakes made in enacting it.
In Betas in Waiting I explored how a majority of boys have, for several generations now, been conditioned to be serviceable providers for women once they enter a phase of life when they find themselves becoming less able to compete intrasexually. Anyone familiar with Preventive Medicine understands this (Epiphany Phase) period as the point during which a woman’s Hypergamous priorities shift from short term Alpha Fucks to long term Beta Bucks.
I also outlined the underlying plan involved in ensuring this strategy in This is now.
That was then. Now at 30 and (hopefully) with a learned and earned degree of merit, success, developed judgement, character and a reasonably well kept physique, a man finds himself in a position like no other – his options and agency to enjoy the attentions of women seem to suddenly be at an apex.
The planning women had at 19 when they told him to “wait for me at 30” now becomes more urgent as she becomes more viscerally aware of the Wall.
She knew this day would come when she was just entering into her peak SMV years.
For men entertaining women embroiled in their Epiphany Phase inner conflicts, not only is this a very confusing phase for the uninitiated Beta, but it is also an equally precarious period with regard (once again) to the consequences of his life’s decisions with her. Most men find themselves players in women’s meta-sexual strategy at this time because they believe that their perseverance has finally paid off. All of that sacrifice and personal achievement has finally merited him the genuine interest of a “quality woman”.
For the men who never learn a Red Pill awareness what they fail to understand is that it’s at this point they’re are expected to abandon their own sexual strategy in order to complete that of the (now Epiphany Phase) woman they’re considering a pairing with. Whether they were literally asked to wait for a woman until she was 30, the effect is the same, they have waited their turn, they have waited to be of service, they have waited to fulfill a feminine primary sexual imperative.
Now I’ll ask you to draw your attention to the statistics in the picture I’ve included as today’s post image. These were sourced from this study. There are actually several more just like it, but what it illustrates is an example of how women’s subconscious will prepare failsafes in the event that the Alpha lover they hope to convert to a Beta provider doesn’t comply with her sexual strategy.
Whether he’s the one that got away, the office husband, or a gym partner, chances are he is the “Plan B” man you fantasize about running away with. Like an insurance policy, this man is the handpicked boyfriend or husband replacement you have on standby once “plan A” starts to break down on you. According to a survey conducted by OnePoll.com, an online market research company, half of women who are married or in relationships have a Plan B man on standby who is “ready and waiting” because of “unfinished business.”
It’s important to pick this apart from the get go here because, like most female written articles that describe unflattering facts about female nature, the narrative must be shifted to be the burden of men. You’ll notice the presumption here is that the ‘Plan A’ lover is always a woman’s preferred choice – thus pre-confirming women’s blamelessness from the outset – and that a ‘Plan B’ should only ever be considered if the ‘Plan A’ man somehow screws up in contenting a woman’s sexual strategy.
The entire article is founded on the principle of Dread – remember, the sort that when men use it are considered evil manipulators? However it should be noted that dread is always an element of any relationship, it’s just that since women’s imperatives are the socially correct ones today, only women can be held blameless in instituting it.
When there’s trouble in paradise, and eventually a break-up, women are left at the starting line again. This means there’s more ladies’ night, late-night rom-com marathons, and wine — lots of wine. However, to avoid playing the field and going through all the bases, women have taken a shortcut to get back to the finish line with a Plan B man. “The saying that ‘the grass isn’t always greener’ clearly isn’t deterring women of today. They understand that anything can happen and are ensuring they have a solid back-up plan should things go sour with their current man,” a spokesman for OnePoll.com told the Daily Mail.
As has been mentioned before the makings of an Alpha Widow generally begin in a woman’s Party Years; during the period during which she is at her SMV peak. And as was mentioned before, Hypergamy is always pragmatic. This Plan B insurance policy strategy is only further evidence of Hypergamy, but it is also pragmatic. Women’s hindbrains know that their SMV is a rapidly decaying asset, so yes that back up plan makes sense. What’s not so obvious in this study is that women also cling to the hope that the Plan B man with whom they consolidated long term security with might someday be replaced by the fantasy of an Alpha she’s widowed herself over.
I think the latter is not only a far more practical reasoning, but since it’s unflattering and exposing of the machinations of Hypergamy, the far more likely use of a ‘Plan B’ alternate.
You can read the rest of the article and pick up on the blatantly entitled male-qualification perspective and a bit more “you better not fuck things up” dread signaling, however, I think the last three stats are the most salient here. At least half of the men involved knew of the Plan B man, 1 in 5 was a friend of his, and 1 in 10 of the Plan B’s had already made an attempt tojump ladders to be intimate with her.
A couple of things make themselves apparent here: in a social order that is made of at least 80% Beta men women can get an ego boost in real time from the default dread they can inspire without really trying. And second, in generation Beta a default form of soft Beta cuckolding is not just known to them, but apparently it’s become normalized for them.
All of this really comes back to, once again, quelling the constant state of internal doubt that Hypergamy instills in women. The Plan B dynamic, and the normalization of it in a feminine centric social order, is yet another play for assurances of security in both the sexual and provisioning aspects of Hypergamy.
Now, so as not to leave you hanging here, I have to end this essay with a bit of actionable advice. I get criticized for outlining the problems very well, but leaving out what a man ought to do with this information.
As always, your first order of business is to be aware that this dynamic is in play. Understand that this Plan B insurance tactic is not just reserved for married men with dead bedrooms. You will likely see variations of it in your dealings with women while you’re single. Any man who’s sexed a girl who depends on a bevy of male orbiters to bolster her self-esteem knows the utility of them. In the next post I’ll be going into detail of how you can leverage the Betaness of most men to elevate your SMV.
Finally, if you are a married man experiencing this Plan B dynamic, you need to do some serious reassessing of your relationship and the status your wife holds you in. Are you one of the 50% of men who know who their wife’s Plan B is? Is he even a friend of yours?
What can you do to reinforce your Alpha dominance in this situation? Or maybe a better question is, is it worth your effort to do so? There will undoubtedly be the predictable comments about how marriage is never worth the effort, and I’ll acknowledge that here first, but are you a victim of endlessly rooting through garbage to reestablish an Alpha impression for your wife that she’s reserved for her Plan B alternate?
I got an interesting comment from regular reader Hollenhund about 2 weeks ago and rather than reheat that thread I thought it deserved a post. I’ll get to that comment in a bit, but the original topic was how Red Pill awareness, or really the Red Pill Lens, applies in different social contexts. I think there’s a misconception about how relevant a Red Pill understanding is in different social environments, ethnic cultures, religious cultures or even what might seem niche or “alternative” subcultures.
It’s no secret I post on a few of the Christo-Manosphere blogs, but this is really just one social subset of the Red Pill. This is just one of a myriad of other social situations I put myself into with a Red Pill perspective. To be honest my natural default is to use a Red Pill lens in most social environments and I consistently use that awareness as a starting point for judging the character of new people I meet.
As a result of my career I’m often asked to organize or make an appearance at promos or product launches in social settings that would likely never occur to me to be a part of. That isn’t to say I don’t enjoy them; I certainly love to do my ‘observational studies’ of intersexual interactions at, say, a martini fest in South Beach, but I don’t think doing a promo at a Goth club around Halloween would occur to me if I weren’t working the event.
However, I’ve found that in all of these very diverse social settings I consistently see the same Red Pill truths, behaviors and motivations predictably play out among the people I work and interact with despite their being bikini models in cocktail dresses or rednecks in wife-beaters and Daisy Dukes. It’s very easy for guys new to Red Pill awareness and Game to think that because the more notable PUAs they see in videos at various clubs are where they’re most successful that they too must emulate this by thrusting themselves into a social environment they’re never going to feel comfortable in.
I’ve covered the topic of domain dependence before, and how it behooves a newly unplugged man to see what social context he finds himself in and understand the limitation of never breaking out of his comfort zone. It stifles a growth and maturity, but similarly I can’t expect a guy to really cast off all his reservations and jump cold turkey into alien social environments in the fashion that my work places me in.
The good news is that you don’t really have to begin in a foreign social environment, at least not at first. I know PUAs like YaReally will stress the importance of getting out in the field and practicing Game – and he’s right, there is no substitute for the education you’ll receive from experience (and failure). However, what that ‘field’ looks like to you can be a great variety of environments.
For example, I sincerely doubt that many religious men would feel comfortable hitting the clubs in Vegas or Miami to practice Game. In fact, Game to them would be limited by their religious convictions, but that Game is still informed by the same Red Pill truth and awareness that Tyler Durden is using in his Game. So what’s to do?
Apply that Red Pill lens, awareness and truth to the social environment you already find yourself in. Game to me as a successful 47 year old creative professional isn’t going to be the same Game or social context you as a 25 year old up and coming anti-millennial will apply. And this is a good thing. One aspect of the manosphere I enjoy is seeing the countless ways in which Red Pill men apply themselves in their various circumstances. It’s very inspiring to see a high school kid and a 55 year old divorced man use the same Red Pill knowledge base to better their lives and achieve relatively predictable results because of it.
One subculture that I’ve been very familiar with for the better part of my life has been the ‘gamer’ subculture. Whether it’s been via my own quirky hobbies or the artists and developers I’ve worked with for years, I’ve been intimately familiar with geek or nerd culture for a very long time. The best part of having had this experience is that I’ve been familiar with it when I was both in my Blue Pill plugged in days and in my Red Pill awakening, to say nothing of being one of the foremost writers in the ‘sphere.
I started with all this because I believe it’s relevant to the conversation that got started with Hollenhund’s comment here:
It is rather important when you consider that the majority of the audience for films, video games etc. with the warrior princess trope are probably men. One male fantasy among many is the woman that is girly and feminine in appearance and body shape, but isn’t actually interested in girly stuff, and would rather discuss automatic weapons, martial arts, sports cars, military history etc. after draining your balls. She wears stylish clothes, but would rather go to the shooting range than the mall etc. Lara Croft is a typical example.
This is what I call a niche sexual marketplace (SMP). As I was saying earlier, just like there are various niche social environs in which to apply Game, there are also niche SMPs that develop within those social contexts. Whether it’s sports, Goth, Christian, nerd, music, etc. or any other culture, the Red Pill truths remain a constant, but the context creates an SMP within it.
This Nerd niche SMP is readily exploited by girls who are otherwise outclassed in a larger SMP by girls who are far more sexy and attention holding. It’s important to remember that Nerd-Space used to be a Male Space that was infiltrated and co-opted by the Feminine Imperative. This infiltration is really standard and formulaic when you consider how the Feminine Imperative has co-opted and assimilated social structures as large as contemporary church culture.
However, Nerd Space has been even more reformed by the imperative than most other traditionally Male Spaces; so much so that the organic girl-world social dynamics have become an integral part of the male subculture within it. You will never find more hostile a Beta White Knight than in Geek Culture because this Warrior Princess mythology is something they’ve been conditioned to evangelize for for most of their lives.
Embracing and pedestalizing Warrior Princesses is a critical component to a geek guy’s form of Beta Game. It’s ALL about identifying with the feminine and celebrating the fantasy that men and women are not just functional equals, but women are unrealized, patriarchally repressed, Warrior Princesses who (through rampant male idealism) necessarily share a mutual concept of what women should love in men who respect that fantasy with them. The nerd’s fantasy girl is one who finds him irresistible because he believes in women’s unrecognized superiority to male-kind.
There’s a very interesting microcosm within geek subculture that unsurprisingly mirrors virtually every intergender dynamic in larger society. As I was saying before this happens in every subculture – the basic, evolved, Red Pill social dynamics manifest themselves in any human collective – but what’s interesting is that geek culture presupposes that the subculture is founded on principles that make it functionally imune to the larger mainstream culture it considers sexist, racist, xenophobic and cruel. If you look at the social utopia that a franchise like Star Trek hoped to promote you can begin to understand it as a fantasized antithesis to the mainstream collective society geeks consider themselves outcast from.
However, even within a geek culture that despises that mainstream cruelty, AF/BB Hypergamy is still the primary order, but the geek microcosm revolves around making women feel good about themselves to such an exaggerated degree that feminism and fempowerment becomes part of ‘Gaming’ women within that subset. It’s Beta Game on steroids with a lot of ego-invested LARPing (live action role-playing, google it) that’s taken very seriously by the overwhelmingly Blue Pill guys who make up most of it.
It’s really entertaining to see these guys try to outdo each other when a girl enters that nerd space with even the resemblance of an interest in something nerd related. That glimmer of interest is like throwing a starving man a cracker in the desert most times, and the more conventionally beautiful and sexy she is the greater the effort, or the greater the default despair is for them.
I’ve covered male idealism in a generic sense before, however that idealism (the unhealthy kind) when put in the context of a noble nerd’s fantasy girl – who shares his passions, is considerate of his borderline autism and appreciates his non-patriarchal deference to her – she either becomes something he obsesses over (severe ONEits) or she represents the despair that only an unreachable dream can stir in a man.
That said, semi-attractive gamer girls do exist (nothing more than an HB 7.5 by my reckoning), but most fall into the demographic of ostracized weird girl or semi-goth, fuscia-haired outcast who never clicked with the in-group girls in high school.
Nerd culture represents an environment where a girl’s otherness makes them a prized commodity. Girls who find nerd/gamer culture either on their own or via their ‘cool nerd’ (see Emo-Goth) boyfriend soon discover a social subset whose males pedestalize to an even greater degree than the prissy in-group bitch girls who ostracized them enjoy from men. In fact that pedestalization, that identification, that default deference and autonomous sublimation to the feminine is integral to the nerd culture. So when you combine a gamer girl’s nerd-niche SMP dominance with the overblown pedestalizing most nerds will elevate them to, it recreates gamer girls in the contextual likeness of the in-group girls they despised and never got along with.
Most top shelf gamer girls tend to hook up with the elite, usually Emo, guys in the subculture. The exact same intersexual dynamics remain, but the context changes. All of the fundamental aspects of Hypergamy and social ego inflation remain, but now within a domain dependent environment they can finally exercise their sexual strategies in ways they never could in the social set they’ve been cut away from.
There are three types of women in the world of the Gamma Protagonist: The Corrupted, The Damsel, and The Strong Independent Woman. Average women, in terms of appearance, ability, and moral character, simply won’t exist outside of the occasional passing mention.
The Corrupted are the female villains of the story who were once good, but were corrupted by men and are therefore not entirely responsible for their evil actions.
Type one are blonde and athletic who likes athletic, powerful men. They are beyond redemption, and are rude, aloof, and hateful to the GP for no reason.
Type two are voluptuous, dark seductresses. One of the greatest feats in the story will be the GP’s ability to resist the charms of the insatiable seductress. She will desire him to the point of absurd obsession for no discernible reason.
The Damsel is an incredibly attractive women who is generally clueless about how attractive she is even though she is approached regularly by men. There will be half-hearted attempts by the author to include some traits of strength, but eventually she will need to be rescued by the GP. At which point, she will fall in love with him, of course.
The Strong Independent woman is strong and independent. She also finds the GP irresistible because he respects her.
She is the equal or better of the GP in at least one traditionally masculine ability, usually in physical strength and battle prowess.
The GP finds it endearing and attractive that she bosses him around regularly, and she loves the arrangement too.
The love interest of the GP will have large breasts, usually has red hair, and is the one to initiate sex in nearly every instance. She will be perfectly loyal unless corrupted by some sort of magical force or technological device.
I’m dropping this here, because it’s important to understand the Blue Pill analogous truths that manifest in these character types.
The Corrupted represents all the ‘normal’ women who’ve ever rejected or been casually indifferent to the male nerd. The Damsel is generally the foil for the Strong Independent Woman, whose use is only to serve to bolster the SIW’s superiority. The Damsel is also representative of women ignorant of their role under some vaudevillian notion of patriarchy. And the SIW woman is representative of the sexualized ideal that’s been approved for nerd guys to obsess over courtesy of the influences of the Feminine Imperative.
These are the archetypes for idealized (both positively and negatively) women in nerd space. Consequently, and unsurprisingly, these fantasy ideals are challenged by the real-life gamer girls who progressively begin to understand their own sexual market capital within this subculture’s men and, most often, unwittingly feed that beast.
All that said, if this is in fact your cultural subset, and even if not, it’s always important for you as a Red Pill aware man to bear in mind that the same articles of an intersexual marketplace are always present within any social context. Whether you’re in church or the club or your local game/comic book store Hypergamy doesn’t change, the game doesn’t change, only its contextual parameters change. Roissy had a great quote in the 16 Commandments of Poon (emphasis mine):
XII. Maximize your strengths, minimize your weaknesses
In the betterment of ourselves as men we attract women into our orbit. To accomplish this gravitational pull as painlessly and efficiently as possible, you must identify your natural talents and shortcomings and parcel your efforts accordingly. If you are a gifted jokester, don’t waste time and energy trying to raise your status in philosophical debate. If you write well but dance poorly, don’t kill yourself trying to expand your manly influence on the dancefloor. Your goal should be to attract women effortlessly, so play to your strengths no matter what they are; there is a groupie for every male endeavor. Except World of Warcraft.
Gamer girls may not have been the type to pine for the high school quarterback, but they do pine for his functional equivalent in Nerd Space. Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks are equally relevant and equally subject to a woman’s capacity to optimize on them in Nerd Space. Her SMV may be artificially inflated within that context, but the mechanics remain the same. Everything you learn here or on any other Red Pill blog or forum is universally applicable in any social context – it’s up to you as a skilled and aware practitioner to observe the particulars of your environment, contrast it with Red Pill truths and apply Game accordingly.
In 2015 women were offered workplace benefits that would allow them to freeze their eggs in order to grant them a promise of a future family irrespective of the personal or career choices they make in life. Granted, this benefit is only reserved for higher up positions in select tech firms that can afford to make a showing of concern for women’s professional and family aspirations (as a PR effort), but the message of even having an option to reserve giving birth at a later phase in life is clear:
Women want an assurance of Hypergamous optimization.
Whether it’s on the personal scale of socially engineering generations of men to accommodate this, or on the larger, more direct scale of legislating those assurances into common law, the underlying imperative is making that optimization as certain as possible for the largest number of women.
It’s important to remember that Hypergamy is rooted in doubt; doubt that any one man might serve to optimally satisfy the dual nature of women’s sexual strategy – optimal sexual agency for optimal genetic selection, and then optimal provisioning for optimal parental investment in offspring – Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks. This doubt of optimization defines the subconscious hindbrain experience for women throughout all phases of their lives.
I covered these phases in Preventive Medicine the book, but to keep things brief, it’s a necessary review when we consider how this doubt extrapolates from the biological level, to the neurological level, on to the personal experiential level, to the interpersonal/intersexual, and on to the great societal and political level. Ensuring Hypergamy is optimized for a majority of women, irrespective of their own suitability for a majority of men, (and at the complete abdication of men’s sexual strategies) is at the root of all feminine empowerment, all socialization of feminine primacy, all cultural efforts to normalize it, and all legislation determined to enforce it.
The latent purpose of developing technology to freeze a woman’s eggs, for instance, is to cheat (or give the impression of being able to cheat) the otherwise naturalistic process of fertility that women are beholden to.
The latent purpose of every pop-cultural trend that contributes to the perception that women can realistically exceed the window of their fertility is offered as an assurance that women have more time than would be naturalistically expected to optimize Hypergamy.
Ostensibly the message for women is the cliché of ‘having it all’ – reassuring women that they can have a rewarding career and make a significant difference in their lives and the lives of others as well as realistically having a meaningful family experience later in life. The unspoken hindbrain message is that a woman has more time to optimize Hypergamy.
If this doubt ensuring requires men’s sacrifices or special dispensations in order to accommodate women’s naturalistic realities or individual deficiencies, those requirements are simply means to an end.
Furthermore, the Feminine Imperative makes exhaustive effort in social, personal and political spheres to assure women that even when their Hypergamous choices prove debilitating or damaging that they have the prerogative to reset their chances at optimization proactively or retroactively.
Whether this is realistic or not is irrelevant to the messaging. This messaging is couched in the social expectation that men are required to afford women this forgiveness of past indiscretions (single motherhood, Alpha Widows, etc.), but again, the purpose of this reset is to provide women with the maximum amount of leeway in consolidating on an optimized Hypergamy.
In Nursing Power I outlined the power dynamic behind women’s drive to maintain the primacy of a feminine defined social order, but it’s too easy to simply think that women’s ultimate end of attaining power is for the sake of power alone. That want for power is driven by the obsessive hindbrain need to quell the doubt that Hypergamy instills in women. All we need do is look at the societal changes women will push to legislate for once they have even marginal degrees of power.
Margins of Power
Serendipitously commenter Not Born This Morning took me to task on this idea in the last comment thread:
@ Rollo – “The new, post-sexual revolution order is a model ostensibly based on ‘sexual freedom’, but what this really represents is a return to that naturalistic sexual order based on pre-agrarian, evolutionarily incentivized hypergamy.”
This is not true.
The naturalistic sexual social order of pre-agrarian human existence expressed BOTH genders natural sexuality without preference of one over the other or the perversion of both that we see today. Today’s laws and social conventions prevent men from returning to THEIR natural sexuality. We are not returning to the naturalistic sexual social order and there is no indication that we will any time soon.
Many of todays “betas” are restrained “alphas”. Law and social convention restrains them.
As a point of order here, I wasn’t suggesting that ‘societally’ western culture is returning to anything like a pre-agrarian sexual paradigm, but rather that pre-agrarian evolved paradigm of Hypergamy is informing the social narrative. Both pre and post agrarian, Hypergamy still influenced and determined our socio-sexual direction – men performed, women chose.
It is not idealism, intellectualism, mental masturbation or “cultural changes” that determine human behavior. We like to pretend that emotional idealism steers history but it never has and never will. We think women are “liberated” by laws and social conventions but they are not. The laws and social conventions that we think make it possible for women to “enjoy” new “freedom” are not the cause, they are only ideals and “paradigms” that result from the real cause.
These laws and social conventions are only thoughts, documents and behavioral practices that confirm what has already happened and been accepted. Women have been liberated from responsibilities and hardships they faced prior to agriculture.
Technology and industrialization were the real enablers of female “liberation” and “freedom”. Today, because of technology, we are relatively safe from predators, famine, disease, and tribes of other humans, etc. We are intellectually advanced (maybe) but definitely physically and mentally weaker. Today’s human female does not need the superior strength, tenacity, strategic intelligence and initiative possessed by surviving males in pre-agrarian tribal groups. Back then, she and her children could not have survived without it him. Today we breed mostly wanna be hyenas and betas and they are voting accordingly.
While we may have a greater mastery over our environment and women may not need strength, tenacity, etc. women’s sexual nature is still informed by an evolved Hypergamy that responds to, and is aroused by, these cues in men.
However, NBTM has a point. Perhaps I should revise that idea, but I will say that post-Sex Rev, the paradigm has favored women’s sexual strategy as the one to define our predominant social order (i.e. unfettered Hypergamy).
Given that freedom and preferential deference to women’s imperatives in a social context, women use both to optimize on a Hypergamy that evolved from pre-agrarian physical and social environments.
Thus, with all the Beta security/provisioning aspects of Hypergamy being met by men (either directly or indirectly) the Alpha sexuality/breeding aspect of Hypergamy is the only thing not directly or immediately available to women without their own qualification for it.
And even this is progressively being accounted for both socially and legislatively with regard to sexual consent law ambiguities, ubiquitous abortion, divorce concessions and curbing every trivial expression of male sexuality from men not ‘worthy’ of expressing it. In fact virtually every socially mandated convention that limits men’s sexual expression or his most marginal want of qualification in women is really an effort in forcing men to comply with women’s need for optimizing Hypergamy.
That’s an important footnote in a social order that’s primarily focused on women’s Hypergamy as the predominant one, and then one that is primarily focused on men’s Alpha side sexual suitability. Beta provisioning needs being relatively assured, women demand satisfaction, qualified and verified satisfaction, of men’s suitability in an Alpha breeding context.
You’ll have to forgive me for using this video of Gronk (the first has been making the rounds on Twitter), but his nature, attitude and behavior are illustrative of a Hypergamous social order that forgives the excesses of a confirmed Alpha.
I stated in a prior essay that women will break rules for Alphas, but create and impose more rules on Betas while expecting compliance from them. This can be extended to the greater whole of a society based on the Feminine Imperative; feminine social mores forgive the Alpha while punishing the impotent Beta for daring to qualify himself as an Alpha.
One reason women despise the undeniable efficacy of Game is because it devises to bypass women’s innate, evolved filters for determining men’s Alpha suitability. Game depends on triggering women’s emotional states, bad or good, so in addition to intentionally working around her filters, Game also creates an emotional impact.
Bypassing women’s filters, and misrepresenting (or impersonating) a genuine Alpha article is a capitol offense to Hypergamous doubt. So it should come as no surprise that the most egregious laws and social mandates with regards to men’s “appropriate” sexual conduct center on women’s qualifying men and verifying his value to her optimization.
Today’s laws and social conventions prevent men from returning to THEIR natural sexuality. We are not returning to the naturalistic sexual social order and there is no indication that we will any time soon.
Through cultural, religious or physical means Hypergamy has always had contingencies to keep it in check. These contingencies (rape included unfortunately) are all efforts for men’s assurances of paternity and fidelity in a long term mate, and ultimately (hopefully) constitute men’s exercising an influence on the direction of his culture and species.
According to strategic pluralism theory (Gangestad & Simpson, 2000), men have evolved to pursue reproductive strategies that are contingent on their value on the mating market. More attractive men accrue reproductive benefits from spending more time seeking multiple mating partners and relatively less time investing in offspring. In contrast, the reproductive effort of less attractive men, who do not have the same mating opportunities, is better allocated to investing heavily in their mates and offspring and spending relatively less time seeking additional mates.
I’ve emphasized the last bit here because it’s important to consider that the reproductive efforts of lower SMV men necessitate the institution of social structures that also (potentially) ensure his narrowly invested efforts in fewer (or one) mate and his offspring. That man cannot afford to be caught on the losing end of polyandry or cuckoldry. Thus the 80% of men with the most investment and most to lose in the conflict of women’s sexual strategy (Hypergamy) establish social conventions to develop assurances of their own.
Those social structures, religions doctrines and various cultural norms are contingent insurances against the results of a society based on unfettered Hypergamy. In essence those structures were established as buffers against the lack of influence men would have in a society that unilaterally empowers women’s Hypergamy and removes any decision making influence.
An interesting side discussion was started in what proved to be a very popular post thread for The War Brides of Europe, and rather than let it disappear beneath a thousand-plus comments I thought I’d pick up on an old post I’ve had in my drafts for a while now.
One of the foundational ideas of Red Pill awareness from the earliest PUA years has been the 80/20 concept – 80% of women want to have sex and / or pair off with the top 20% of men. This has been a fast and loosely defined in terms of subjective sexual market value (SMV) between men and women and the ratio of disparity between those valuations.
In intersexual terms, this 80/20 rule finds its roots in the economic theory known as the Pareto Principle: “80% of your sales come from 20% of your clients.” While I’m not sure the principle is directly translatable, it mirror the general rule of Hypergamy and women’s innate drive to optimize their sexual strategy with who they perceive as the top tier 20% (Alphas) men are fucking the 80% lion’s share of women. Many a despondent Beta picks up on the principle and uses this to justify his failures to connect with women.
I’m of the opinion that the 80/20 rule is often abused to justify men’s failures or successes with women (more often failure), however the fundamental notion is both observable and easily verifiable in-field as well as statistically. It is however important to keep in mind that the 80/20 rule as it applies to Hypergamy is often bastardized in its inverse. The presumption goes that if 80% of women want to have sex with the top 20% of men it should necessarily mean that the top 20% of men are fucking 80% of women. Many a despondent Beta picking up on this dynamic will use this assumption to disqualify himself from Game or give up in futility. More on this later.
As a point of reference, it’s important to remember that Hypergamy doesn’t seek its own level with regard to SMV comparisons. Rather, Hypergamy is always seeking a socio-sexual pairing that is a ‘better than’ exchange for a woman’s own, realistically comparative, SMV. And as I’ve mentioned previously, Hypergamy is always pragmatic about establishing that ‘better than’ SMV exchange with men’s.
While the Red Pill’s expanded definition of Hypergamy encompasses far more than just ‘marrying up‘, the 80/20 sexual selection process is simple enough that even Aunt Giggles in her heyday could illustrate it:
As you might guess the fundaments of basic Hypergamy are easy to understand, so the tendency is to oversimplify the complexities that really define Hypergamy and how the 80/20 basics play out. And lastly, it’s important to bear in mind the dual nature of women’s Hypergamous filtering, impulses and attendant emotional investments – the 80/20 dynamic applies to both the Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks aspects of Hypergamy, however the characteristics that would optimize the former tend to come at the expense of the latter (and vice versa).
All that said, the 80/20 principle is fairly simple; a majority of women across the broadest SMV spectrum (80%) will always want for a ‘better than’ pairing (both sexual and provisional) than their own comparative SMV.
If the underlying mechanics of Hypergamy-inspired desire were only about a 1 or 2 step difference in SMV the distribution ratio wouldn’t be 80/20. As sophomoric as it is the above graph is relatively accurate: an SMV 3 woman is desirous of an SMV 8 or above man as representative of a Hypergamously optimal pairing (sex and/or provisioning).
For the 80/20 rule to hold true we’re looking at a comparative difference of 5 steps in SMV. Now, granted, this is on the extreme end of the spectrum, and it should also be noted that SMV is also a question of context and based on a woman’s ‘filtering’ perception of a man’s SMV being legitimate. However, this doesn’t alter the ‘better than’ merited pragmatism of Hypergamy.
Whether or not a woman is actually capable of this optimization isn’t relative to understanding the principle. Indeed, with the expansion of instant communication, social emphasis of women’s empowerment and esteem, and the influence social media exercises over the female ego, an SMV 3 woman of today might likely believe she is in fact deserving of a man 5 steps above her own (a good example). But for purposes of understanding how the Pareto principle applies to intersexual dynamics we must focus on the latent purposes for it to exist.
The easiest (or most convenient) mistake to make about this dynamic is to presume that the consolidation of Hypergamy (locking down a man 5 to 1 steps higher in SMV in monogamy) defines the 80/20 rule. Remember, this principle is about desire and women’s expected (entitled?) satisfaction of it, not the actual consolidation (LTR) of that Hypergamous ideal.
In the prior thread the conversation centered on the mistaken idea that the Pareto Principle is not universal or is only observed in some systems, but not in human sexuality. To which I’d argue that in no other system is this principle more evident than intersexual dynamics – and not just among humans but countless other species. It’s unflattering to the disguise in which the Feminine Imperative would put it in, but, whether realizable or not, the 80/20 rule practically defines female desire.
The second mistake it to presume the inverse: that 20% of men actually get 80% of women. Usually this gets trotted out as an equal-for-equal argument that presumes, again, that desire should necessarily translate into consolidation. Betas and lower SMV men do get laid and pair off with women for any number of reasons, but the principle isn’t about who’s actually fucking who. Rather, it’s about who has more access to sexually available women based on their SMV valuation. Nice Guys may finish last, but they do finish eventually – whether they finish ‘well’ is a thought for another post.
A third common mistake, made mostly by women, presumes the goal-state outcome of intersexual dynamics should be to arrive at a monogamous state. This is the consolidation of a female sexual strategy, and because we live in a feminine-primary social order, that committed, monogamous end to women’s sexual strategy is perceived as the socially “correct” goal. At no point is men’s imperative interests (sexual or life-rewarding) a priority, if it’s considered at all, in the Hypergamous equation. In the absence (or disregard) of men’s conflicting interests the Feminine Imperative substitutes what best fits its own interests as the socially ‘appropriate’ goals for men. Then it qualifies ‘manhood’ according to its proxy interests for men, so that any man not measuring up to them are not considered truly ‘men’ by its definition.
Women’s innate Hypergamous nature ensures a distributive model for desire that aligns with the Pareto Principle – even if the overall result of women settling for less than optimal Hypergamy appears to contradict it. Again, it’s important to remember that women’s Hypergamous desires are often not reflected by the outcome of those desires.
Want is not have
The concept that a woman’s Hypergamous imperative wouldn’t be a mutual goal between the sexes is an alien thought to most women. Much in the same way that men idealistically want to believe women mutually share their concept of love for love’s sake (and free from the conditions of their Burden of Performance), women are mistaken in believing men’s sexual strategy is synonymous with the female strategy and shares a mutual end. By way of feminine solipsism and a social order that only considers women’s imperatives as legitimate, collective feminine social consciousness rarely gives men’s imperatives an afterthought – and then only when they become problematic to the Feminine Imperative.
Women subconsciously reinforce the feminine-correct goal state of LTR monogamy by a continuous, autonomous, expectation of its fulfillment – even when that fulfillment creates cognitive dissonance with their short term vs. long term sexual strategy. It’s part of women’s Hypergamous firmware to do so because it ensures (or tries to) their subconscious need for parental investment and long term security / provisioning.
What women necessarily must disregard is that their own sexual strategy choices are determined by the want to pair with a mate who exceeds her own SMV. Thus, the Pareto principle applies.
In Open Hypergamy I made mention that there is a social transitioning taking place among women where revealing the uglier side of Hypergamy is becoming more acceptable. The degree of comfort with which women have in revealing the machinations of Hypergamy is proportional to their capacity to play the 80/20 game well enough to consolidate on a 20th percentile man (or his closest approximation). For women still uncomfortable with openly embracing the uglier side of Hypergamy concealing the truth about the 80/20 becomes a practical priority. You will find in the future that many of the conflicts you read between Strong Independent Women® of differing social or moral perspectives will be based in their degree of comfort in openly relating the machinations of Hypergamy.
Women for whom keeping the 80/20 rule concealed from men’s popular consciousness (women with less capacity to compete intrasexually) can ill afford to have men aware of their own SMV and how it affects their long term sexual strategy. High value Red Pill aware men have the leisure to exploit Hypergamy and low value Red Pill men aware of their Hypergamous role risk denying women of the resources to provision them in the long term.
I have to COMPLETELY OVERCOME all my handicaps to the point where I am BETTER than 80% of men at least.
I have to have my shit together better than the vast majority of men. I’m having a hard enough time just getting to be AVERAGE, but what I need to do in order to have any kind of sex life and get ANY of my sexual needs met AT ALL is be better than the vast majority of guys out there.
So, in other words, you’ll end up killing yourself anyway, but you’ll do it the slow way, by making sure you’ll end up an exhausted wretch with an ulcer, high blood pressure and similar health problems? Because that’s what you’re basically saying there.
I tend to think of how men confront the challenge of their performance burden is a parallel to their understanding of the 80/20 rule. On some level of consciousness men either possess some evolved instinct for it, or they develop some learned understanding of their own role in relation to how the 80/20 dynamic applies to them.
I think much of what frustrates men about assessing their own SMV in a Blue Pill mindset comes from an instinctual understanding of the 80/20 rule and reconciling it with what they’re being socialized to believe women ought to evaluate them for. Before any Game, before any Red Pill awareness, men’s first deductive impression is to classify themselves into SMV respective “leagues“, and women who would or wouldn’t be sexually accessible according to those leagues.
Ironically, even men’s Blue Pill league evaluations fail to account for women’s 1-5 SMV step over evaluation of their own SMV. The equalist agenda teaches men that their leagues should be based on a like-for-like parallel, when Hypergamy really demands men’s SMV be well above that of women.
This of course gets distorted once men begin to become Red Pill aware and over-exaggerate the abstract concept of Alpha and how it applies to themselves. In a way they fall victim to believing they must become an Alpha parody in order to measure up to women’s apex fallacy impression of a top 20% man.
Needless to say Red Pill awareness and applied Game will reveal the truth about the 80/20 rule. Initially it seems like a horribly unjust set of conditions for an ‘average’ man, but the rule is still based on the fundamental biological and psychological underpinnings of Hypergamy, and therefore open to exploits for a Red Pill aware man.
In the above example (h/t Young Patriarch) we can see the comparison between a naturalistic, Hypergamous socio-sexual order contrasted with an idealized socio-sexual structure. The Sexual Freedom model mirrors the 80/20 rule, while the Regulated model is representative of an idealized structure designed with the intent to evenly justify pairings according to a distributive monogamy.
As I mentioned earlier, men have an instinctual understanding about how the 80/20 Pareto Principle applies to women’s Hypergamy. And while Game is a modern contingency for it I would argue that the cross-culture concept of a monogamous marriage between men and women was a broader contingency designed not just to counter women’s Pareto-centered sexual strategy, but to ensure a greater majority of (lesser SMV) men had the opportunity to pass on their genetic heritage.
I could point out that the Regulated model above is very representative of an egalitarian model for monogamy based again on the like-for-like presumption, but Hypergamy being what it naturally is will always confound that ideal. However, I have to also point out that the Regulated ideal has always been a convenient selling tool to keep both men and women ignorant of the uglier, visceral nature of the Hypergamous sexual marketplace.
Marriage as a social adaptation serves (or served) as a negotiated buffer against Hypergamy, but it also serves as a perceived buffer against men’s Burden of Performance that would otherwise necessitate the constant super-achievement that Hollenhund describes above. As a social dynamic marriage was a Beta breeding insurance policy that conveniently enough took root about the time human beings began to adopt a largely agrarian lifestyle.
Today equalism and the fantasy of an idealized, mutually beneficial monogamy based on the Old Set of Books is little more than a contingent workaround for the 80/20 rule reality. As this idealism decays and is replaced by either Red Pill awareness or men learning the harsh realities of modern marriage liability the more we will see a shift away from the Regulated model in favor of a now openly Hypergamous model.
In 2009, the proportion of American women who were married dropped below 50 percent. In other words, for the first time in American history, single women (including those who were never married, widowed, divorced, or separated) outnumbered married women. Perhaps even more strikingly, the number of adults younger than 34 who had never married was up to 46 percent, rising 12 percentage points in less than a decade. For women under 30, the likelihood of being married has become astonishingly small: Today, only around 20 percent of Americans are wed by age 29, compared to the nearly 60 percent in 1960.
In the old order of monogamy the mutually beneficial exchange centered on quality assurances, either via polygamy (sexual assurances) or monogamy (provisonal assurances) in a Beta context. These assurances, having been more or less compensated for by men’s willing or unwilling assistance via social and legislative means, are no longer an incentive for women to marry or commit to a long term monogamy, and this is evidenced in almost a decade of statistics that show this decline.
A wife for every Beta is the old order negotiated social contract function of committed monogamy. In a state of nature where 80% of men can never be assured of a genetic legacy, most men have no incentive to participate in an organized society. What the Regulated model of sexuality does (albeit inefficiently) is gives Beta males the incentive to cooperate in larger society by establishing monogamy as the predominant social order. And then, as Krauser mentions these societies tend to outperform those based on a Hypergamous, naturalistic socio-sexual structure.
As mentioned this arrangement was based on an exchange of long term security for women for assurances of sexual access and ultimately a genetic legacy. Essentially it was a negotiated compromise of the desire for the Alpha Fucks aspect of Hypergamy for the assurances of a long term Beta Bucks aspect of Hypergamy. By today’s socio-sexual standard this old order arrangement is supplanted with the relatively assured guarantee of satisfying both aspects of Hypergamy at different phases of a woman’s maturity in life. Thus we see the Epiphany Phase, Alpha Widowhood and every variety of schema I outline in Preventive Medicine.
The new, post-sexual revolution order is a model ostensibly based on ‘sexual freedom’, but what this really represents is a return to that naturalistic sexual order based on pre-agrarian, evolutionarily incentivized Hypergamy. We revert back to an open acceptance of the 80/20 realities that, if we’re honest, always informed even a Regulated socio-sexual model of monogamy.
In the new era of Open Hypergamy, women’s only necessitated compromise of her sexual strategy depends on her exaggerated self-impression of her SMV measured against her capacity to lock down an optimal male. This also explains the endless push to create self-confident, self-important ‘independent’ women. Women’s naturalistic predilection for the 80/20 Pareto Principle of sexual selection virtually assures their long term isolation – thus the need for a self-created impression of women’s self-sufficiency.
What I find with that video of the Danish feminist. If there were such a thing as a Master’s Degree in the manosphere, you could show the candidate that video and have him break down all the elements of the female mind displayed. Point by point;
Let’s you and him fight
Extraordinary lack of accountability
Collectivism to the depths of her soul
A form of AF/BB…In that men have to be both ends of behavior to meet females’ changing needs. Meek and placid during the forty years of feminist play-acting fun-time, now all of a sudden a different kind of man is needed.
Victim/victim convenient duality. Victorious feminists imposed their will and opened borders, now they’re victims and it’s up to men to clean it all up.
Equalist/androgynous when it suits whatever need, strong gender roles when it suits whatever need.
“Intractable solipsism” belongs in that list as well.
I apologize in advance if this post comes off as overly dramatic or kicking a hornets’ nest. It’s not my intent to wax poetic, but it will serve a purpose.
I was asked about my take on the current ‘migrant crisis’ in Europe by several Red Pill friends (both online and in person I should add), and how I thought it played into what I’ve written in the past about the War Brides dynamic. As my readers know I never delve into issues of politics, race or religion on this blog unless those issues are directly related to intersexual social and personal dynamics.
So it was with this in mind that I considered connecting the dots between Hypergamy and the War Brides dynamic and what I believe we’re beginning to see now in Europe. However, before I get too deep I thought I’d pick Ms. Thranholm’s interview apart first.
A Schism in the Feminine Imperative
I’ll agree with Kaminsky on his take for the most part; the degree of default entitlement women feel they have to men’s physical protection is glaringly evident, especially coming from ardent feminists, but the side-glance vitriol for European men wearing skirts in protest to the rash of ‘migrants’ raping/harassing European women only highlights feminist duplicity.
Is this rash as widespread as these women are making it? Hard for me to say, but not a day’s gone by since this migration that several ‘incidents’ of these migrant’s sexual assault (assault that would land the average European male in jail or make an American man a sex offender overnight) has been in my Twitter feed. I’ll leave that interpretation up to my readers, however what’s glaringly evident is the duplicity in the reaction strong independent® feminists are having to these assaults.
In the video Thranholm at last drops the feminist boilerplate and makes the concession all feminists (and Red Pill deniers) are loathe to hear – our society has become feminized. I’ve been making this point since the days of my writing on SoSuave; western society has become founded on a feminine social primacy that prioritizes women’s imperatives (Hypergamy) above all other considerations (lead photo NSFW). The fabric of western society from our religions, to our work cultures, to our personal relations, to our educational institutions, to the foundations of our parenting, have been progressively and systematically feminized over the course of 60+ short years.
To have a woman like Thranholm voice this from a visceral, fear based necessity is an indictment of how unignorable this feminization as become. In a similar fashion to how Open Hypergamy and soon Open Cuckoldryare becoming too socially evident to ignore, so too is the fact that an increasing majority of western(ized) men believe that touchy-feely feminized solutions to conflict are their first best alternative to violent, physical, in-your-face conflict resolution.
“This militant feminism that has been going on for decades, now we see the consequences that many men here are brought up to be like women, and to think like women, and be soft-minded.”
Iben explains in no uncertain terms that a lack of conventional, complementary masculine strength is so lacking in Europe that even feminist women are beginning to feel uneasy in the uncertainty that their safety could be insured by average European men. Underneath all of the posturing of strength, feminism still needs “muscle” for its physical defense. When feminism looks to its loyal White Knights for that muscle it finds them dressed in mini-skirts and high heels.
Without missing a beat, scowling feminist interviewer, Anissa Naouai, presents the complete obliviousness of the gravity of the situation women are facing…
“But that is what Europe is about, that is part of the European qualities that the European Union promotes.
[…] “These refugees are coming to Europe, shouldn’t they adapt to that?”
This is a glaring example of the degree of cognitive dissonance that has been cultivated in our feminine-primary social order. The idea that men who wouldn’t recognize that feminine social primacy exist, much less who would entirely ignore it, is so alien a thought that it never enters Anissa’s mind.
An Appeal to Honor
Iben continues and answers Anissa’s question without really realizing it.
“Now we see that these post modern values are just a construction.”
I thought this was interesting when we consider how long we’ve been told the opposite – that the popular concepts of conventional, evolved gender roles are the social construction. However once these ‘post modern values’ are slammed into the harsh conditions of a reality that diametrically contradicts it, then, then it becomes a question of “where have all the cowboys gone?” Now the truth is revealed that it is in fact this post modern, feminized interpretation of gender that is the social construct – and one with potentially disastrous consequences.
“…and now we see that we don’t have any male that can stand up, that can fight, who can fight back those male aggressions that we are feeling. So the vacuum that feminism has created means that women are the victims of those male aggressions”
And now we come to the standard appeal to the Male Catch 22 I described in The Honor System many years ago:
Man Up or Shut Up – The Male Catch 22
One of the primary way’s Honor is used against men is in the feminized perpetuation of traditionally masculine expectations when it’s convenient, while simultaneously expecting egalitarian gender parity when it’s convenient.
For the past 60 years feminization has built in the perfect Catch 22 social convention for anything masculine; The expectation to assume the responsibilities of being a man (Man Up) while at the same time denigrating asserting masculinity as a positive (Shut Up). What ever aspect of maleness that serves the feminine purpose is a man’s masculine responsibility, yet any aspect that disagrees with feminine primacy is labeled Patriarchy and Misogyny.
Perhaps we haven’t reached it quite yet, but we are approaching a social tipping point where the physical necessity of conventional masculinity will outweigh the liability to women in ceding the power that feminine social primacy represents. The need for ‘Man Up’ will outweigh the need for ‘Shut Up‘.
This need for women’s defense predictably gets couched in men’s Burden of Performance, and now that shit’s gotten real we see this dynamic laid bare in women’s shaming of men for not putting themselves bodily between them and an attacker. This is where Iben’s premise, and the sham of the Feminine Imperative’s social engineering, breaks down. And ironically the very idea of a new “male revolution” or supporting conventional masculinity on a social scale is even more appalling to Anissa than the reality of rising potential sexual assaults on women:
“It means that men need to take responsibility to go back to the old male virtues, to defend the women, the children and the culture. Because now this post modern project is dead, it doesn’t work…”
Iben goes on for a bit repeating the same men need to take responsibility for defending women trope in various ways and tries to explain to Anissa in as black and white a way that reality necessitates this. However the real disconnect, the most poignant illustration of feminisms denial of reality comes from Anissa after all of this:
“But the mass rapes shouldn’t be happening in the first place.”
“I’m sorry, uh, what?”
“The mass rape, the violence shouldn’t be happening in the first place. These are guests essentially who Europe has welcomed.
[…] should (women) have to protect themselves against mass rape on their streets at home?”
The utter cognitive dissonance of Anissa with her inability to grasp that these male ‘guests’ (who should be beholden to the Male Catch 22 by default) wouldn’t honor the dictates of feminine primacy is staggering. So much so it even fazes Iben for a moment. However, this disconnect is a textbook example of the sociological and psychological schism that is (or will soon) taking place for European women given their present reality.
I’ll stop here because Iben goes on to reiterate most of her points, and gets in another about the need for complementarity in conventional gender roles, but do watch the whole clip. The point I’m making with this is that there is a coming reckoning that a feminine primary society is beginning to face; post modern feminized gender constructs have fundamentally compromised the security of western culture.
This then begs the question, what comes as a response to this? As I mention, the typical go-to strategy of the Feminine Imperative is to lean on men’s shame for not taking the masculine responsibility for women’s (and children’s) defense. However the same characteristics that make a conventionally masculine man a good defender are also a liability to women’s sphere of control once all her would-be attackers have been subdued. These are the same characteristic that have been ridiculed, marginalized, denigrated and punished by feminine-centric society for going on 7 decades now.
So what’s the proper response here? No doubt there will be the scorched earth factions who’ll quote us the following:
This city is afraid of me. I have seen its true face. The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout “Save us!”… and I’ll whisper “no.”
– Rorschach, Watchmen 2009
If men need to take responsibility to go back to the old male virtues, to defend the women, the children and the culture it needs to come with a reciprocal incentive for men in doing so. Relying on men’s sense of duty to honor only works insofar as women are appreciative and rewarding of it. As it stands now, the average man either blindly believes his honorable action is to be more “soft-minded” in his approach to honor or has absolutely no motivation to risk himself for women who’ve told him they don’t need his “macho bullshit masculinity” for the past 60 years – right up until she’s assaulted or raped in 2016.
For a complementary gender restructuring of society it implies a reciprocal incentive on the part of women; one I don’t see forthcoming even in the desperate tones of Iben and Anissa.
It may be all well and good to let women such as Anissa to burn along with the rest of feminized Europe, however, Iben does make a valid point; if (European) men don’t do something by reassuming conventional masculinity they stand to find themselves in precisely the position I outline in War Brides:
Evolution has largely selected-for human females with a capacity to form psychological schemas that preserve an ego-investment that would otherwise afflict them with debilitating anxiety, guilt, and the stresses that result from being continuously, consciously aware of their own behavioral incongruities. Evolution selects-for solipsistic women who are blissfully unaware of their solipsism.
[…]women’s peripheral environment dictated the need to develop psychological mechanisms to help them survive. It was the women who could make that emotional disconnect when the circumstances necessitated it who survived and lived to breed when their tribe was decimated by a superior force. This is also known as the War Bride dynamic; women develop an empathy with their conquerors by necessity.
Men are the disposable sex, women, the preserved sex. Men would simply die in favor of a superior aggressor, but women would be reserved for breeding. So it served a feminine imperative to evolve an ability to cut former emotional ties more readily (in favor of her new captor) and focus on a more self-important psychology – solipsism.
Now, here is where I’ll step off the diving board and into the theoretical. It’s my purview that a lot of what men would complain are duplicitous acts of indifference towards them are really rooted in this innate feminine solipsism. That’s a bold statement, I realize, but I’d argue that what men take for inconsiderate indifference in a break up or in ruthless shit tests is really a woman tapping into this innate, self-preserving solipsism. Combine hypergamy with the chronically hostile environments of the past and you end up with a modern day feminine solipsism. Add to this an acculturated sense of female entitlement, social conventions that excuse this ‘duplicity’, and a constant misdirection of intent by women themselves, and you come to where we are now. As if that weren’t enough, throw in the element of hypergamy and the countdown in terms of fertility and long term provisioning that a woman must deal with before hitting the imminent Wall, and now you have a fuller picture of the conditions and stresses that necessitate this solipsistic nature.
It seems clear to me that women who align with Anissa’s feminine-primary mindset exhibit exactly this self-preserving solipsism in the subconscious knowledge that the men of their ‘tribe’ have become acculturated into becoming more like women and unable to defend them from a stronger, more conventionally masculine tribe.
Both Iben and Anissa are on either side of this War Brides dynamic, but both also illustrated the other’s solipsistic approach to dealing with it. I don’t claim to have the solution to this circumstance, and perhaps that should be the focus of discussion, but this is exactly the War Brides dynamic I laid out.
As you might expect, much of the findings in this study reinforce many Red Pill principles founded in evo-psych, but there are a few new angles to consider here. Before I start to riff on this study, bear in mind that the concept of female mate guarding behavior centers on what the researchers define as ‘desirable mates’ to women. This subjective assessment of desirability will play into all this analysis.
For women, forming close, cooperative relationships with other women at once poses important opportunities and possible threats-including mate retention. To maximize the benefits and minimize the costs of same-sex social relationships, we propose that women’s mate guarding is functionally flexible and that women are sensitive to both interpersonal and contextual cues indicating whether other women might be likely and effective mate poachers. Here, we assess one such cue: other women’s fertility. Because ovulating (i.e., high-fertility) women are both more attractive to men and also more attracted to (desirable) men, ovulating women may be perceived to pose heightened threats to other women’s romantic relationships. Across 4 experiments, partnered women were exposed to photographs of other women taken during either their ovulatory or nonovulatory menstrual-cycle phases, and consistently reported intentions to socially avoid ovulating (but not nonovulating) women-but only when their own partners were highly desirable. Exposure to ovulating women also increased women’s sexual desires for their (highly desirable) partners. These findings suggest that women can be sensitive to subtle cues of other women’s fertility and respond (e.g., via social exclusion, enhanced sexual attention to own mate) in ways that may facilitate their mate retention goals while not thwarting their affiliative goals.
Right from the start here we have two Red Pill foundations confirmed; the influence that perceptual SMV plays in women’s sense of passive Dread and the fundamental influence that menstruation dictates to sexual arousal and concurrent motivations for sex appeal during women’s ovulation phase.
I’ve previously gone into the dynamics that play out between men and women with regard to perceived SMV of a partner versus the other partner’s self-perception of their own SMV and how this determines secure vs. insecure attachment. This post was more of an outline of results of SMV imbalance rather that the motivations for the characteristics of those personal attachments. This study illustrates these underlying motivators very well.
Anyone who’s heard my Man in Demand talk on Hypergamy understands the (menstrual cycle) biological root for women’s personal and sociological behavior, and this study provides yet another confirmation of it. I’ve also written in the past about men’s propensity for mate guarding and the behavioral cues women, both subtly and not so subtly, display that prompts them to mate guarding. However, I’ve yet to explore women’s mate guarding behaviors.
I’m bringing up the SMV ratios and Mate Guarding posts here because it’s important to bear in mind the subjectivity that perceived SMV plays in regard to motivating mate guarding. Depending on that balance (or imbalance) one partner will be more motivated to mate guard than the other. Which of course then brings us back to the Cardinal Rule of Relationships. Mate guarding impulse is contextual to the comparative value of both individuals and the value of others in their social environment (potential sexual competitors).
Thus, it is a significant challenge for women when other women attempt to poach their partners. For instance, over 50% of women admit to attempting to poach another woman’s partner, and over 80% of men admit to having been the object of another woman’s poaching—with about half of men admitting to “going along” with the poaching attempt (e.g., Schmitt et al., 2004; Schmitt & Buss, 2001). Women have good reason, then, to mate guard.
I’m going to encourage readers to take the time to, at the very least, read the introduction, premise and results of this comprehensive study. Naturally there will be incredulous women who will insist that men tend to overestimate the displayed sexual interests of women towards them. This is a common social convention that serves a very specific purpose for women; plausible deniability.
If the common group-think is that men are egotistical, think they’re “all that” and stupidly believe they’re seeing sexual cues from women because “that’s just how men are”, then we have a pre-established condition in which women can believably deny interest. Thus, should a man not find a woman attractive, or opt for another, this then serves as a rejection buffer as well as a precondition for her own rejection of a man should he make an approach and not be found attractive.
The Schmitt & Buss studies account for this, but even if they didn’t there would still need to be a functional reason for women’s mate guarding behavior. That reason puts the lie to the social convention of women presuming men aren’t as perceptive of their sexual cues as they’d like to believe.
[…] whereas men have at times physically isolated and sequestered their female
partners to restrict other men’s access to them (e.g., in harems), women may analogously socially isolate their partners from potential poachers—keeping them apart so as to preclude potentially costly competition for their romantic partners.
The usefulness of this strategy depends on women being able to identify those who might be likely and effective mate poachers, and then excluding them (but not others) from their social circles. If a woman indiscriminately distances herself and her partner from potential poachers (i.e., all other women), she is assured of his fidelity but at the cost of eliminating her access to the numerous benefits of female–female friendships.
Spoiler alert: The study confirms that women will covertly exclude themselves and their lover’s company from women who A.) outclass them in comparative SMV (hotter women than they perceive themselves to be) and B.) happen to be in the proliferative phase of ovulation.
This indicates that not only are women subconsciously (if not consciously) aware of intrasexual rivals ovulatory states – as evidenced by dress, ornamentation, vocal intonation, scent, sexual proceptivity, etc. – but they are aware enough to orchestrate covert methods to protect their sexual investments in a ‘high value’ male while ensuring future intrasexual friendships.
That may seem like an overly scientific way of saying women watch out for other women slutting it up, but the subcommunications of ovulation are so subtle that women’s subconscious, peripheral awareness of those cues evolved for a sensitivity that goes beyond the obvious slut. That’s how important retaining a better-than-self SMV optimal mating choice is to women in an evolutionary scope. That sensitivity is part of women’s psychological firmware.
[…]In addition, if a woman were to consistently and indiscriminately exclude other women from her own and, by extension, her partner’s social circle, she might gain a reputation for being non-communal and non-nurturing, and thus, for being an undesirable friend. This might not only thwart her ability to form future friendships with other women, but might also lead her partner to perceive her as highly difficult, uncooperative, controlling, and non-trusting.
Thus, on one hand, the costs of indiscriminately avoiding other women are high because women reap important benefits from making new same-sex friends, On the other hand, women can and do mate poach with frequency, and those women deeply embedded in one’s social circle may have increased access, motivation, and ability to poach successfully.
There’s a few things to unpack here before we can make this information Red Pill / Game applicable. The most important metric that female mate guarding indicates is her genuine assessment of a man’s SMV and how valuable his participation and investment in their LTR (or even STR sexual value) is to her.
I’ve seen this mate guarding play out in my own relationships before, both as a Red Pill husband who happens to work with beautiful women in the liquor industry and prior to my Red Pill awareness of it in my libertine 20s. Back then it was easy to pass off as ‘bitches be crazy’ when a girlfriend or a short term sex partner “just got jealous”. But in hindsight the timing of those fits of jealousy seemed a bit to regular.
I’m going to suggest that developing an awareness of a woman’s bouts of jealousy or her subtle timing in wanting to spend time alone with you, or her being more sexually proceptive (she wants to fuck more) with you at times you may think odd. These are Alpha or Beta Tells. A woman’s preoccupation with guarding you from other women is a prime indicator of your SMV worth to her. It stands to reason that only ‘desirable’ men deserve the effort of her mate guarding.
This is an important Red Pill sensitivity to have as it also allows you to determine a woman’s unspoken understanding of where she and you stand in relative SMV comparison. As I was saying in the introduction here, that ‘desirability’, that SMV ratio, that Alpha impression that makes you worth mate guarding is subjective to what a woman’s self-perceived SMV is in respect to your own. When we interact with women in the long term it’s very easy for men to lose sight of this balance and think that their frumpy wife is the best they can do. There is a definitive psychological game that women of low SMV will play with men they know are of higher value – they will continually devalue that man as a form of mate guarding.
That devaluation may take the form of browbeating, nagging or accusing him of being attracted to other women in an effort to get her higher value LTR man to self-limit his being poached by endlessly qualifying himself to his low SMV wife/girlfriend. It’s far easier, and far lower an investment of resources if a low SMV woman can convince her higher SMV man to mate guard himself.
Just as an aside here, there may be a few readers who’ll think women will rationally consider that their long term provisioning is virtually assured in a feminine-primary social order. Alimony, child support or pro-female government will assure her and her offspring a baseline of security, so why mate guard any man?
The answer of course is that women’s psychological firm ware didn’t evolve to acknowledge these considerations. Once again T-Rex doesn’t want to be fed, he wants to hunt. So even with the logical consideration that provisioning is assured women’s limbic (particularly on an Alpha Fucks short term breeding assurance) still wants those environmental and behavioral cues that indicate they have that security.
So with all of this to digest how do we put this knowledge of women’s limbic desire for ensuring a mate’s exclusive sex and provisioning to use for us?
The obvious answer is in the title of this post – developing that awareness of your SMV worth to a woman is a good starting point from which you can subtly employ a passive form of Dread.
I’ve gotten a lot of grief for just my acknowledging Dread, much less using it beneficially for both a man and whatever woman he chooses (long or short term). It’s always about how horribly manipulative it is, or it’s just an unsustainable game of brinksmanship between a couple that destroys trust. But what these (usually female) critics never recognize is that Dread is already an integral part of every relationship by order of degree.
The fact that both male and female mate guarding behaviors are evidential facts of both sex’s hindbrain function should be proof enough that Dread, the concern of loss of investment, and the subconscious, comparative evaluation of SMV is something that’s always an operative. It’s inherent to our conditions as evolved human beings.
My advice in this instance is for men to become sensitive to the indicators of that ovulatory mate guarding dread and use that insecurity to promote a better, genuine desire in that woman. Suggesting this will seem counterintuitive to a Blue Pill mindset. The conditioned response will be to allay that woman’s fears (the ones she’s subconsciously aware of but will hate you for making her acknowledge) and provide her with comfort and familiarity.
But comfort and familiarity are anti-seductive and kill the genuine desire, the genuine need to fuck you in order to keep you and show her appreciation for your higher SMV. Why does a woman compete for what she is constantly comfortably assured she already has?
The trick to employing soft or passive dread is making yourself sensitive to the opportunities to use it and then gently provoke it in as covert and indirect a way as possible. One of the better ideas the early PUAs had was mastering the art of the Neg, or the backhanded compliment. The idea was to casually knock a woman’s self-image down to a manageable degree in order to get her to qualify herself the the PUA. Passive dread operates on a similar principle.
You need to see the opportunities for its use, and women’s propensity for mate guarding men they find ‘desirable’ is a reasonably predictable opportunity. See those chances for other women’s casual flirtations with you, look for those unsolicited opportunities for easy social proof, and don’t dissuade your woman’s initial mate guarding response. Casually push back on the mate guarding impulse, don’t jump to the reassurances of your undying love and interest.
See that opportunity for what it is – a chance to restate whose Frame she’s chosen to be a part of. She wants to merit your value. Take that effort away from her and you become valueless to her.
As I mentioned in the prior comment thread, I’ll be testing out a once a month(ish) livestream podcast with Niko Choski for a while. This talk is meant to be an informal discussion of topics I go into on The Rational Male, as well as what’s trending in the manosphere. It’s also to give guys an opportunity for some feedback and exchange in the live comments.
Some of my regular readers may be wondering why I didn’t advertise this first trial more and the answer is I wanted to use this one as a test to see the initial response. I’ll be promoting future livestreams more aggressively, but I knew this one would be less than polished. I deliberately tried to keep it to an hour to make it more digestible, but we did go a little over to answer questions.
In this cast we discussed my article on The Red Pill balance and how a Red Pill awareness is not just vital to a man’s personal development with women, but how it can help in various other aspects of his life. We discuss the differences of that Red Pill perception in the MGTOW community that Niko has recently divided himself from.
You can of course comment on the YouTube feed, but I’m going to take open comments here about what you thought of the discussion and even my engaging in a once a month talk like this. I expect more than a few from the MGTOW communities will find there way here, but I’m more interested in what you thought about the idea of us doing this.
I’ve been asked for a while as to why I don’t just do a solo podcast myself, but I don’t really like to do things off the cuff with regard to what I write and explain. I prefer to approach things from all angles in my writing before I hit the publish button. That said I do see the value in a discussion like this when it’s about topics I’ve already covered or perhaps something going on in mainstream society or the ‘sphere.
So let me know what you think. The comment thread is open so if you want to tell me it’s a bad idea, fine. If you like it, great. If you want to chime in on any of what we discussed feel free to.