Ovulation & Dread


ovulation_dread

I had an interesting study brought to my attention recently (ht/ Robert Burriss) and I thought I’d get back to a nuts and bolts post with something useful I found in it.

Women Selectively Guard Their Desirable Mates From Ovulating Women.

As you might expect, much of the findings in this study reinforce many Red Pill principles founded in evo-psych, but there are a few new angles to consider here. Before I start to riff on this study, bear in mind that the concept of female mate guarding behavior centers on what the researchers define as ‘desirable mates’ to women. This subjective assessment of desirability will play into all this analysis.

For women, forming close, cooperative relationships with other women at once poses important opportunities and possible threats-including mate retention. To maximize the benefits and minimize the costs of same-sex social relationships, we propose that women’s mate guarding is functionally flexible and that women are sensitive to both interpersonal and contextual cues indicating whether other women might be likely and effective mate poachers. Here, we assess one such cue: other women’s fertility. Because ovulating (i.e., high-fertility) women are both more attractive to men and also more attracted to (desirable) men, ovulating women may be perceived to pose heightened threats to other women’s romantic relationships. Across 4 experiments, partnered women were exposed to photographs of other women taken during either their ovulatory or nonovulatory menstrual-cycle phases, and consistently reported intentions to socially avoid ovulating (but not nonovulating) women-but only when their own partners were highly desirable. Exposure to ovulating women also increased women’s sexual desires for their (highly desirable) partners. These findings suggest that women can be sensitive to subtle cues of other women’s fertility and respond (e.g., via social exclusion, enhanced sexual attention to own mate) in ways that may facilitate their mate retention goals while not thwarting their affiliative goals.

Right from the start here we have two Red Pill foundations confirmed; the influence that perceptual SMV plays in women’s sense of passive Dread and the fundamental influence that menstruation dictates to sexual arousal and concurrent motivations for sex appeal during women’s ovulation phase.

I’ve previously gone into the dynamics that play out between men and women with regard to perceived SMV of a partner versus the other partner’s self-perception of their own SMV and how this determines secure vs. insecure attachment. This post was more of an outline of results of SMV imbalance rather that the motivations for the characteristics of those personal attachments. This study illustrates these underlying motivators very well.

Anyone who’s heard my Man in Demand talk on Hypergamy understands the (menstrual cycle) biological root for women’s personal and sociological behavior, and this study provides yet another confirmation of it. I’ve also written in the past about men’s propensity for mate guarding and the behavioral cues women, both subtly and not so subtly, display that prompts them to mate guarding. However, I’ve yet to explore women’s mate guarding behaviors.

I’m bringing up the SMV ratios and Mate Guarding posts here because it’s important to bear in mind the subjectivity that perceived SMV plays in regard to motivating mate guarding. Depending on that balance (or imbalance) one partner will be more motivated to mate guard than the other. Which of course then brings us back to the Cardinal Rule of Relationships. Mate guarding impulse is contextual to the comparative value of both individuals and the value of others in their social environment (potential sexual competitors).

Thus, it is a significant challenge for women when other women attempt to poach their partners. For instance, over 50% of women admit to attempting to poach another woman’s partner, and over 80% of men admit to having been the object of another woman’s poaching—with about half of men admitting to “going along” with the poaching attempt (e.g., Schmitt et al., 2004; Schmitt & Buss, 2001). Women have good reason, then, to mate guard.

I’m going to encourage readers to take the time to, at the very least, read the introduction, premise and results of this comprehensive study. Naturally there will be incredulous women who will insist that men tend to overestimate the displayed sexual interests of women towards them. This is a common social convention that serves a very specific purpose for women; plausible deniability.

If the common group-think is that men are egotistical, think they’re “all that” and stupidly believe they’re seeing sexual cues from women because “that’s just how men are”, then we have a pre-established condition in which women can believably deny interest. Thus, should a man not find a woman attractive, or opt for another, this then serves as a rejection buffer as well as a precondition for her own rejection of a man should he make an approach and not be found attractive.

The Schmitt & Buss studies account for this, but even if they didn’t there would still need to be a functional reason for women’s mate guarding behavior. That reason puts the lie to the social convention of women presuming men aren’t as perceptive of their sexual cues as they’d like to believe.

[…] whereas men have at times physically isolated and sequestered their female

partners to restrict other men’s access to them (e.g., in harems), women may analogously socially isolate their partners from potential poachers—keeping them apart so as to preclude potentially costly competition for their romantic partners.

The usefulness of this strategy depends on women being able to identify those who might be likely and effective mate poachers, and then excluding them (but not others) from their social circles. If a woman indiscriminately distances herself and her partner from potential poachers (i.e., all other women), she is assured of his fidelity but at the cost of eliminating her access to the numerous benefits of female–female friendships.

Spoiler alert: The study confirms that women will covertly exclude themselves and their lover’s company from women who A.) outclass them in comparative SMV (hotter women than they perceive themselves to be) and B.) happen to be in the proliferative phase of ovulation.

This indicates that not only are women subconsciously (if not consciously) aware of intrasexual rivals ovulatory states – as evidenced by dress, ornamentation, vocal intonation, scent, sexual proceptivity, etc. – but they are aware enough to orchestrate covert methods to protect their sexual investments in a ‘high value’ male while ensuring future intrasexual friendships.

That may seem like an overly scientific way of saying women watch out for other women slutting it up, but the subcommunications of ovulation are so subtle that women’s subconscious, peripheral awareness of those cues evolved for a sensitivity that goes beyond the obvious slut. That’s how important retaining a better-than-self SMV optimal mating choice is to women in an evolutionary scope. That sensitivity is part of women’s psychological firmware.

[…]In addition, if a woman were to consistently and indiscriminately exclude other women from her own and, by extension, her partner’s social circle, she might gain a reputation for being non-communal and non-nurturing, and thus, for being an undesirable friend. This might not only thwart her ability to form future friendships with other women, but might also lead her partner to perceive her as highly difficult, uncooperative, controlling, and non-trusting.

Thus, on one hand, the costs of indiscriminately avoiding other women are high because women reap important benefits from making new same-sex friends, On the other hand, women can and do mate poach with frequency, and those women deeply embedded in one’s social circle may have increased access, motivation, and ability to poach successfully.

There’s a few things to unpack here before we can make this information Red Pill / Game applicable. The most important metric that female mate guarding indicates is her genuine assessment of a man’s SMV and how valuable his participation and investment in their LTR (or even STR sexual value) is to her.

I’ve seen this mate guarding play out in my own relationships before, both as a Red Pill husband who happens to work with beautiful women in the liquor industry and prior to my Red Pill awareness of it in my libertine 20s. Back then it was easy to pass off as ‘bitches be crazy’ when a girlfriend or a short term sex partner “just got jealous”. But in hindsight the timing of those fits of jealousy seemed a bit to regular.

I’m going to suggest that developing an awareness of a woman’s bouts of jealousy or her subtle timing in wanting to spend time alone with you, or her being more sexually proceptive (she wants to fuck more) with you at times you may think odd. These are Alpha or Beta TellsA woman’s preoccupation with guarding you from other women is a prime indicator of your SMV worth to her. It stands to reason that only ‘desirable’ men deserve the effort of her mate guarding.

This is an important Red Pill sensitivity to have as it also allows you to determine a woman’s unspoken understanding of where she and you stand in relative SMV comparison. As I was saying in the introduction here, that ‘desirability’, that SMV ratio, that Alpha impression that makes you worth mate guarding is subjective to what a woman’s self-perceived SMV is in respect to your own. When we interact with women in the long term it’s very easy for men to lose sight of this balance and think that their frumpy wife is the best they can do. There is a definitive psychological game that women of low SMV will play with men they know are of higher value – they will continually devalue that man as a form of mate guarding.

That devaluation may take the form of browbeating, nagging or accusing him of being attracted to other women in an effort to get her higher value LTR man to self-limit his being poached by endlessly qualifying himself to his low SMV wife/girlfriend. It’s far easier, and far lower an investment of resources if a low SMV woman can convince her higher SMV man to mate guard himself.

Just as an aside here, there may be a few readers who’ll think women will rationally consider that their long term provisioning is virtually assured in a feminine-primary social order. Alimony, child support or pro-female government will assure her and her offspring a baseline of security, so why mate guard any man?

The answer of course is that women’s psychological firm ware didn’t evolve to acknowledge these considerations. Once again T-Rex doesn’t want to be fed, he wants to hunt. So even with the logical consideration that provisioning is assured women’s limbic (particularly on an Alpha Fucks short term breeding assurance) still wants those environmental and behavioral cues that indicate they have that security.

Passive Dread

So with all of this to digest how do we put this knowledge of women’s limbic desire for ensuring a mate’s exclusive sex and provisioning to use for us?

The obvious answer is in the title of this post – developing that awareness of your SMV worth to a woman is a good starting point from which you can subtly employ a passive form of Dread.

I’ve gotten a lot of grief for just my acknowledging Dread, much less using it beneficially for both a man and whatever woman he chooses (long or short term). It’s always about how horribly manipulative it is, or it’s just an unsustainable game of brinksmanship between a couple that destroys trust. But what these (usually female) critics never recognize is that Dread is already an integral part of every relationship by order of degree.

The fact that both male and female mate guarding behaviors are evidential facts of both sex’s hindbrain function should be proof enough that Dread, the concern of loss of investment, and the subconscious, comparative evaluation of SMV is something that’s always an operative. It’s inherent to our conditions as evolved human beings.

My advice in this instance is for men to become sensitive to the indicators of that ovulatory mate guarding dread and use that insecurity to promote a better, genuine desire in that woman. Suggesting this will seem counterintuitive to a Blue Pill mindset. The conditioned response will be to allay that woman’s fears (the ones she’s subconsciously aware of but will hate you for making her acknowledge) and provide her with comfort and familiarity.

But comfort and familiarity are anti-seductive and kill the genuine desire, the genuine need to fuck you in order to keep you and show her appreciation for your higher SMV. Why does a woman compete for what she is constantly comfortably assured she already has?

The trick to employing soft or passive dread is making yourself sensitive to the opportunities to use it and then gently provoke it in as covert and indirect a way as possible. One of the better ideas the early PUAs had was mastering the art of the Neg, or the backhanded compliment. The idea was to casually knock a woman’s self-image down to a manageable degree in order to get her to qualify herself the the PUA. Passive dread operates on a similar principle.

You need to see the opportunities for its use, and women’s propensity for mate guarding men they find ‘desirable’ is a reasonably predictable opportunity. See those chances for other women’s casual flirtations with you, look for those unsolicited opportunities for easy social proof, and don’t dissuade your woman’s initial mate guarding response. Casually push back on the mate guarding impulse, don’t jump to the reassurances of your undying love and interest.

See that opportunity for what it is – a chance to restate whose Frame she’s chosen to be a part of. She wants to merit your value. Take that effort away from her and you become valueless to her.

965 comments

  1. The practical tip from this study is that tracking the cycle of women and hanging out with them during their fertile part is paramount. We already knew that if you are single, your chances of lay with that woman are the highest. Now we know that if you are in couple, this will trigger that sweet mate guarding behavior in your partner, increasing your desirability, which will be hamstered in an increase of your perceived SMV.

  2. I’ve got something for you Rollo. One interesting thing is that men and women generally respond very differently to stress(generally the response to stress hormonally is like the response to exercise). Men tend to become narcissistic and less social, and women become anxious and more social. It makes sense that during hunting or running away that the mind stop using portions certain portions of it, just as blood is shunted away from the stomach, and towards muscle. My theory is that men who treat women in a way that causes them great stress yet is able to keep her close by physical force or social ability(dread game, negs intermittent punishment/reward, even physical abuse), is rewarded with the borderline personality response(emotional justification, sexuality, desperation, worship). I believe people who are borderline/narcissitic, have above normal, test cortisol, adrenaline, noradrenaline(all tend to be produced at the same time from the same place-the adrenals). Note-testosterone isn’t only produced in the Testes.

  3. Outstanding article, taking apart real science. I suddenly miss Heartiste’s little heart emoticons around the word “science”.

    Anyway…

    Many women in the modern world are on hormonal contraception. My casual research suggests this system spoofs pregnancy via external hormones. I admit I have not bothered to dig in detail.

    If women are “spoof pregnant” all the time, how does this fit in with the ovulatory / menstrual cycle discussed in the article?

  4. First off
    “Thus, should a man not find a woman attractive, or opt for another, this then serves as a rejection buffer as well as a precondition for her own rejection of a man should he make an approach and not be found attractive.”
    Damn New awakening their and this part.
    “She wants to merit your value. Take that effort away from her and you become valueless to her.”
    Coming from a background of trauma this never got to blossom but i can see its biological importance now more than ever,
    http://childtrauma.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Perry-Bruce-neurosequentialmodel_06.pdf
    As here as well
    https://childtrauma.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Bonding_13.pdf
    Here as well
    https://childtrauma.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Memories_of_Fear_Perry.pdf
    https://childtrauma.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Incubated_In_Terror.pdf

  5. Something those researchers aren’t considering (they’re probably not aware of it, since they’re unlikely to have in-field experience with seduction) is: That women are attracted to men who have other women attracted to them.

    It’s kind of like Cialdini’s social proof concept, except I think it goes deeper (to the limbic level) in the case of sexual attraction.

  6. Social proofing is the most powerful aphrodisiac. If you are married and girls aren’t flirting with you I suggest you change so that they are. For now you can lie to your wife and tell her a story about some girl hitting on you.

    I haven’t lied but the girls I want know that other girls want me. I’ve been poached. Nothing drives a girl wild like competition. Hence dread game and social proofing. Sucks for the incel guys but just lie about it. It will become true. Nothing breeds success like success. Why do you think women hate virgins while virgins love players?

    Amazing article Rollo. Putting this to work as I get my future wife to keep chasing me. Chaste cute virgin Christian women are out there. And they so want to play the game where they tame the player. Of course this means you’ve got to become a player first.

    Did that. Now I want a wife. Mgtow is a toxic community because when I have spoken to those Incels about my life and how, now, after getting my pussy fix on sluts, I’m going after them Christian virgins for marriage, they freak out and attack me. Aren’t those girls for them? Lol.

    Like I don’t have virtue. Virtue right along with game and a hard understanding of female sexuality.

    Sometimes I wish I didn’t. Can’t throw up the red pill though. No matter how much I gagged taking it down.

  7. My second LTR was a single mom. Pre-player days. When I was purple pilled. Nineteen and had an illegitimate child from a 35 year old player. She lied, of course, and used the fake rape story. See guys she was raped! Raped into child. And stupid me half believed it. Still had her in crotchless panties and a skirt fucking her in the woods outside Barnes and Noble. “Won’t someone see?”, shut up. I knew something was wrong but I couldn’t place it.

    Years went by.

    Years!

    While I was her bastard daughters father. Autumn. Oh I did want to father that beautiful little girl.

    She told me no. No you will not be the father. She will not take your name. And, of course, I won’t take your name either! No I’m a strong independent woman! Matriarchy here we come!

    I was honestly confused. Guy fake “raped” you and you don’t want your kid to have a real dad? You won’t take my name?

    Course her mom was this freak feminist professor. Clues.

    Two years in and she calls me, on my birthday, *happy birthday strings*, crying like a bitch, and tells me that she wasn’t raped. Want out clubbing and as an eighteen years old valuable slut this 35 year old drug dealer who lived with his mom picked her up. Fucked her every way I wanted to, had threesome’s with her, and she *deliberately* came off the pill and got pregnant with his THIRD bastard!!!!

    He didn’t take care of the past two. But he had pictures of them in his wallet and she just knew he was a good dad. Cause of social proofing. I mean other girls wanted him to fuck them so he must be good.

    This is the type of shit retard women think. We are in a matriarchy so take note. Social proofing for the win. There are no patriarchs around anymore. Just pathetic weak men begging the FI for some pussy.

    I discovered this truth cause I wanted blowjobs from her. Lol blue pilled me thinking my slut would suck my dick. After two years she told me she didn’t like sucking cock. On my birthday, my fucking birthday, all those many years back, when she called me crying and telling me the truth, she told me she sucked his dick (Steve’s dick!) on command but she didn’t like it. So she wouldn’t do that for me.

    That poor pathetic simp trying to make a life for her and her bastard daughter. Nope! Can’t suck my dick!

    I started cheating on her with my future ex wife. Still blue pilled but learning the truth. Hey my ex wife sucked my dick like a champ. Especially because she was poaching me from a tall thin hot girl who would wear crotchless panties and a short skirt for me. Just would get down on her knees and suck.

    Then, of course, went red pill and red pill forum and now girls do what I want or bye. Got my social proof. Had my threesome with a 19 year old at 33. Hey she found the girl for us. Lol. MP. Hey that’s on the red pill forum, though I quit posting there after mgtow incels attacked me.

    Like he’s just pretending to be a Christian! I am no such thing.

    And yeah you incel mgtow haters. I love you guys but guess what? Got a Christian virgin inheriting millions of dollars of property begging for me. Lol. Sorry guys. Better ban me from your forum. Since I’m taking the girls you should get. Right?

    Right?

    Lol lol

  8. Not one of that pathetic drug dealing losers baby mommas even had him paying child support. They didn’t want it!

    They didn’t even have him paying child support!

    Dumb sluts love players. And they identify them through social proofing. Don’t have it? Hey just lie and watch it become true. You have to imagine the truth before you can make it so.

  9. I am currently dating a brand new woman. This behaviour is evident in everything. She is completely hyperaware of absolutely every woman that might be checking me out, or when I start to have conversations with female bartenders and waitresses. I can see her entire body language shifting and her starting to kiss/lick/bite in order to mark her territory.

    It’s fascinating to imagine that the ques that men also pick on that make a woman more attractive to them, such as ovulation are also picked on by women and if they are in a relationship it leads to guarding.

    Observable truths within the Red Pill context are starting to get a good evidence base behind them. The truth that men were preaching to other men in this sphere is starting to be completely undeniable by evidence.

  10. The problem with consistently relying on dread is that, eventually, you’ll build small fissures into the relationship and this will inevitably lead her to wander or entertain thoughts of a new man. Heartiste himself acknowledged this in an old post by saying something to the effect of, “Dread is very easy to over do and once it is over done, it can rock the core of a relationship beyond repair. See: trust.”

    Your best bet, and I know “gamers” hate this saying, is to hook up with someone in your own league or with a woman lower than you. If you are truly trying to sustain a “stable” relationship, that is really the best way to go about it. For flings or plates, then by all means try to shoot above but don’t be disillusioned that you will be able to make it last. You may fool a woman once or twice but her id monster will eventually start screaming internally when your inherent SMV is below hers.

    Either you are better than her or she is better than you, it is that simple. Game can only maneuver and propel you so far before she starts finding the slow witted but handsome guy irresistible. It’s important to keep in mind that in this day and age, women (at least the young ones) primarily value (on a primal level) what arouses them as oppose to what attacts them.

  11. @RealTalk

    I don’t think a man can evaluate that fact well. You see we are programmed to see value in women by looks. Therefore we assume value in ourselves by our looks alone. Though looks, status, social proofing, confidence etc play into it, you cannot assume that your value is lower than a woman’s.

    You can be seen by a woman as both as attractive and very sexual. What you are doing there is differentiating between the two types of hypergamy and valuing the beta attraction of it. It’s in essence the alpha fucks and beta bucks aspect of hypergamy.

    A woman can find you both attractive and sexually irresistible. It is the right combination of man and beast as I see it.

  12. The new HBO comedy special with Whitney Cummings is nonstop open hypergamy and red pill truths. She talks about going on the pill and craving alpha males; plus how she slept around on her boyfriends in her early twenties.

  13. @Real Talk

    Stop making shit up. A call for lowering standards is something I find offensive.

    Just to make it easier? That is an illusion. Just because you don’t have enough game? BS.

    Relying on dread? The trick is to not rely on dread because you, the man, is so good that she is the one generating dread. So you don’t have to.

    “You may fool a woman once or twice but her id monster will eventually start screaming internally when your inherent SMV is below hers.”

    Let her id scream all it wants. That’s her emotional roller coaster. Be better.
    What’s next on the agenda? Pick an easy job? Pick guy friends that go easy on you? Lift lower pound weights at the gym? Wait longer in between reps and text and talk between sets at the gym because it is easier.

    Nope.

    Truth be told, my partner’s id has been screaming internally the last couple weeks. But it keeps me sharp. It may end tomorrow, but I’m going to be leaning just beyond my edge for the foresee-able future.

    Yes it’s hard, but so is anything masculine.

    If anyone can relate, I’ve been type I diabetic for 24 years. At the current age of 54 and been married for 25 years to a +2 1/2 woman, my last Glycohemoglobin was 6.2 without an insulin pump or continuous implanted glucose monitor. Yep. I live on my edge. Yep it’s hard. Yes the burden of performance is high. Better to burn out than it is to rust.

    Any one else feel the same? Believe in functioning at a high standard for yourself? Or go the easy route?

    Henry Rollins:

    http://www.oldtimestrongman.com/strength-articles/iron-henry-rollins

    That which you work against will always work against you.

    It wasn’t until my late twenties that I learned that by working out I had given myself a great gift. I learned that nothing good comes without work and a certain amount of pain. When I finish a set that leaves me shaking, I know more about myself. When something gets bad, I know it can’t be as bad as that workout.

    I used to fight the pain, but recently this became clear to me: pain is not my enemy; it is my call to greatness. But when dealing with the Iron, one must be careful to interpret the pain correctly. Most injuries involving the Iron come from ego. I once spent a few weeks lifting weight that my body wasn’t ready for and spent a few months not picking up anything heavier than a fork. Try to lift what you’re not prepared to and the Iron will teach you a little lesson in restraint and self-control.

    I have never met a truly strong person who didn’t have self-respect. I think a lot of inwardly and outwardly directed contempt passes itself off as self-respect: the idea of raising yourself by stepping on someone’s shoulders instead of doing it yourself. When I see guys working out for cosmetic reasons, I see vanity exposing them in the worst way, as cartoon characters, billboards for imbalance and insecurity. Strength reveals itself through character. It is the difference between bouncers who get off strong-arming people and Mr.Pepperman.

    Muscle mass does not always equal strength. Strength is kindness and sensitivity. Strength is understanding that your power is both physical and emotional. That it comes from the body and the mind. And the heart.

    Yukio Mishima said that he could not entertain the idea of romance if he was not strong. Romance is such a strong and overwhelming passion, a weakened body cannot sustain it for long. I have some of my most romantic thoughts when I am with the Iron. Once I was in love with a woman. I thought about her the most when the pain from a workout was racing through my body.

    Everything in me wanted her. So much so that sex was only a fraction of my total desire. It was the single most intense love I have ever felt, but she lived far away and I didn’t see her very often. Working out was a healthy way of dealing with the loneliness. To this day, when I work out I usually listen to ballads.

    I prefer to work out alone.

    It enables me to concentrate on the lessons that the Iron has for me. Learning about what you’re made of is always time well spent, and I have found no better teacher. The Iron had taught me how to live. Life is capable of driving you out of your mind. The way it all comes down these days, it’s some kind of miracle if you’re not insane. People have become separated from their bodies. They are no longer whole.

    I see them move from their offices to their cars and on to their suburban homes. They stress out constantly, they lose sleep, they eat badly. And they behave badly. Their egos run wild; they become motivated by that which will eventually give them a massive stroke. They need the Iron Mind.

    Through the years, I have combined meditation, action, and the Iron into a single strength. I believe that when the body is strong, the mind thinks strong thoughts. Time spent away from the Iron makes my mind degenerate. I wallow in a thick depression. My body shuts down my mind.

    The Iron is the best antidepressant I have ever found. There is no better way to fight weakness than with strength. Once the mind and body have been awakened to their true potential, it’s impossible to turn back.

    The Iron never lies to you. You can walk outside and listen to all kinds of talk, get told that you’re a god or a total bastard. The Iron will always kick you the real deal. The Iron is the great reference point, the all-knowing perspective giver. Always there like a beacon in the pitch black. I have found the Iron to be my greatest friend. It never freaks out on me, never runs. Friends may come and go. But two hundred pounds is always two hundred pounds.

    Don’t settle, my masculine friends. It doesn’t look good on you.

  14. Very interesting study, many thanks for the post Rollo.

    I think I’ve had women hit on me in the past but I consistently thought I must be imagining it.

    And as Rollo writes:
    “Naturally there will be incredulous women who will insist that men tend to overestimate the displayed sexual interests of women towards them. This is a common social convention that serves a very specific purpose for women; plausible deniability.”

    Now I’m “pretty sure”.

    Which is why for me this is hilarious:

    Love that example of IOI / subcomms (perhaps a bit exaggerated? I’m not very experienced but I’d put them about on par with that subway scene from the movie “Shame” posted on the previous article).

  15. ” . . . hook up with someone in your own league . . . ”

    I have heard of these, but I have never met one.

  16. Rollo Tomassi: “Our great danger is not that we aim too high and fail, but that we aim too low and succeed.

  17. @SJF

    Very poetic. I’ve been focusing a lot lately on both physical and emotional strength. They definitely go together.

    I avoided the gym for a long time and didn’t think I could make a habit of it. Now, there’s nothing like leaving the gym and feeling like my legs are going to give out from under me at any moment.

    In that same way, I’ve been able to embrace an emotional mind-fuck rather than avoid it at all costs. I knew I had a lot of anxiety, but never realized just how much until recently being able to experience the calm contentment of embracing being hurt and anticipating growth from it.

    Let women pursue a life of comfort and security. Man have no place there.

  18. @Rollo – Error “…a bit to regular.” should be “too”.

    @SJF – A lesson I’m only now taking to hear. “Don’t wish it was easier, wish you were better.” Only fly in the ointment there is that I got lazy as fuck and lived in a delusional, ego buffered sea of nonsense so long that I’m out of practice. Cracking the whip on myself at 53 is no fucking joke. Every day is a roller coaster – but I’m improving every day. It’s amazing how one can retreat into inner delusions and interpret everything in self-serving ways without realizing it.

    I’m listening to the audiobook version of the 48 Laws of Power. I never read the whole thing and obviously missed a lot. It’s easy to see it as cruel or dishonest or narcissistic – that’s just the Blue Pill in death throes. It’s the original Red Pill, beyond intersexual dynamics. It’s essentially a lens into social interactions of every sort, personal, professional, familial – and women. What it reveals is destructive to male idealism, hence our resistance to it, even Rollo as he revealed a few posts back. But it’s just truth and using power wisely doesn’t mean one is cruel, it means one isn’t a sucker or a chump.

    With women the biggest mistake you can make is disclosing your agenda or aims. Our power over them is our frame and once they understand frame and how you are creating it, the magic pops like a bubble.

    The first rule of Fight Club is: you do not talk about Fight Club. The second rule of Fight Club is: you DO NOT talk about Fight Club…The magician never gives away his secrets. All of life is a game a of social power – I thought I knew that, and at some level I did – intellectually. Putting it into practice in my life is an entirely different matter, and it is making me a beginner again. Love it. When I was a buddhist I was always cautioned to remain a beginner. In sports the analogy would be to always work on fundamentals.

    I’ve just managed to get a person who trains world class celebritie/models to give me one on one training in exchange for helping her build her brand. Fyi, I’ve developed bicep tendonitis and she’s helping me train around it and avoid other problems of this sort. She gets 1000/hr and is flown around with super models, yet she thinks she’s getting the deal, lol. I don’t think I’ll do anything to change that perception. And oh yeah, she’s chasing me to lock me down…

  19. @Rollo

    Congratulations on your Frame grab re: Pacific Standard Time.

    Any options in WordPress to put PST after the time and date? So our EST, intelligent brains can adjust to the math +3 more efficiently (time is our most valuable asset and if you can shave a millisecond off our thinking/converting it would help).

    Heh. Personally I’m OK in dealing with +3’s (….you know, my sexual partner of 27 years….).

  20. Re: Ovulation, dread etc. This also explains why teen girls go savage on each other when they begin ovulating and sexually maturing. 7th-11th grade is a pool of seething hormones and sexuality, which all are dealing with for the first time. Add to that a culture which encourages hypersexuality in teen girls and voila – massive competition, mate guarding, poaching. I never quite got why my daughter’s social circle and school went apeshit at this point. She managed to navigate it pretty well after some initial mishaps, but wow, yeah.

    It also explains why the mom’s of these girls jumped right into the fray – which blew my mind utterly. Their hindbrains viscerally understand the game being played and its importance to their daughters. They wanted to teach their daughters to win at this game at all costs, not to play fair or be nice. 48 Laws of Power + Ovulation & Dread.

    I’ve also always thought the gradient between SMVs in couples matters greatly. @SJF – Kudos for making clear that male SMV is much more manipulable than female SMV. The thought I wanted to add – a light bulb that popped just as I was reading your comment and processing the laws of power stuff – I think mystery and unpredictability is even more important when pursuing a hottie. Even when married to her for 25 years, keep her guessing, make her wonder, keep surprising her, don’t telegraph intentions and never, ever let her see the “inside of the sausage factory”. I think you could benefit from internalizing this a bit more, possibly. Like all recos, if it fits, great. I also think that mystery and playfulness are quite complementary which goes along with previous points I’ve made to you.

    Okay, back to the fray. Opps, one more thing

    @KFG – The Red Pill is not “the model”, it’s a slang term for a scientific approach to social analysis. There is no finite “model” for intersexual dynamics just as in physics the model is never really done (i saw a slight modification to calculating newtonian gravity come along in 2011). Game is abstracted from that analysis and is essentially a set of heuristics which can by used by a man who wants to exercise social power. MGTOW is to decide you don’t want to play by the rules of the actual, occurring world. It’s a fantasy world and an ego buffer, writ large. It’s a gigantic LARP to protect men who are too wounded or lazy or dishonest or scared to play to win.

    To reject game (in the larger sense of all social interactions) is to reject reality. To put MGTOW alongside PUA (merely a specialized application of game) is analogous to claiming quitting a game is the same as playing it. MGTOWs merely have gained allies in perpetuating their delusions, their numbers add no value to their approach and in a way only confirm just how difficult it is to step out of Blue Pill thinking. They are a cancer in the Manosphere and are soul death for masculinity. It’s a dead end for men. It does start with some Red Pill observations but it just never goes the whole course.

  21. “MGTOW is to decide you don’t want to play by the rules of the actual, occurring world. It’s a fantasy world and an ego buffer, writ large. It’s a gigantic LARP to protect men who are too wounded or lazy or dishonest or scared to play to win.

    To reject game (in the larger sense of all social interactions) is to reject reality.”

    That’s observably true of me for quiet sometime.

  22. @ScribblerG

    Re: 48 Laws of Power

    “It’s easy to see it as cruel or dishonest or narcissistic – that’s just the Blue Pill in death throes.”

    It is easy to see it as not that with a red pill lens. The introduction or preface or whatever it is to the book really is key to setting the tone in this regard. I have a serious urge to cut and paste the intro, but I think that extinction burst of my poor commenting days is fading.

    I don’t do well with audio of the written word. Unfortunately Robert Greene’s book isn’t laid out well for practical advice. And the stories used to illustrate: boring. I prefer to use just the facts list of laws PDF shown here. Perhaps bookmark this and review it frequently.

    http://www.tke.org/files/file/The_48_Laws_of_Power.pdf

    Once you review your interactions on a regular basis, like YaReally advises with field reports, it is simply amazing how these principles come into play on a daily basis. Play or be played.

  23. @SJF – I look at the 48 Laws of Power every day – it’s my home page on my browser and have the book in pdf already. I didn’t like reading the book due to what you said, but in audio book form it’s kind of awesome. Like listening to a wise man read you some stories. I also get a ton of out of narrative rather than didactic presentations so it’s really sinking the meaning in much more deeply for me. You and I process information quite differently, but I’m confident that between the two of us very little gets by without notice!!!

    How did you see my mystery/playfulness comments?

  24. @Scribbler: ” . . . it’s a slang term for a scientific approach to social analysis.

    The scientific approach is to model and then to examine the model for its predictive power. The map is not the territory. The map is a model. A model that that can predict how to get from here to there.

    If a model were a perfect reproduction of what it models, it wouldn’t be a model any more. It would be the thing itself.

    “Theory” is a type of model. No theory, no scientific approach.

    Red Pill is not reality itself, it is a theory, a model of reality. A reality map that with sufficient predictive power to allow us to go from here socially to there socially.

  25. “Even when married to her for 25 years, keep her guessing, make her wonder, keep surprising her, don’t telegraph intentions and never, ever let her see the “inside of the sausage factory”

    That’s the idea and with red pill/game it is going well except the Frame is not power thing. When Frame is not power, IMHO it just means that game needs to be better.

    This last three weeks I’ve actually have run into some stiff headwinds on my journey. Rollo and Heartiste have actually wrote about this before( sorry I can’t cite the essays right now). I’m actually on the cusp of going overt: Talking about fight club. I’m a lot more clear in my mission statement these days and I actually did a bit of overt-ness including last night. I have to say it went over well. (the issue is TL;DR) Won’t be doing this except for a brief flash for shock and awe, then back to not mentioning fight club. (sorry to be cryptic about the issues, but it’s not that bad, I’m just wanting to take things to a higher level)

    It’s like the navy running an aircraft carrier. Sure you got the rules book, but sometimes you improvise, with wisdom/mastery/skill in the heat of the moment.

    “I think you could benefit from internalizing this a bit more, ”

    Scrib., if you are referring to Law of Power internalizing, I got that down good. You see I benefit from not being in the fog of war as regards to a relationship. Working on making it less comfortable for her but more satisfying. And playfulness, flirting are what’s needed. And a bit less mystery. The mystery and not talking is actually slightly overboard. And I’m a bit more masterful in game so I’m calling an audible at the line.

  26. “How did you see my mystery/playfulness comments?”

    Read that after my last post.

    Sorry, I’m actually at work, so I’m a little disjointed here. You know, in between patients.

  27. @SJF: “in between patients” I just imagined you are a gynecologist…

    @Kfg: good accurate description of the Red Pill.

  28. @KFG – I don’t disagree in principle with your comment, as an intellectual distinction. Let me take another whack at it and see if I can be more logical.

    Scientific approach applies reason tempered by experiment/data where possible

    Red Pill is focusing the scientific approach on all social dynamics (Blue Pill is much bigger than just intersexual dynamics)

    Game is the set of heuristics, or “the model” if you will, that gives men power in social settings, including intersexual social dynamics, which is constantly tested against the evolving science and real world experiments

    PUA is using game and developing pickup specific techniques and heuristics so men can use social power to fuck women

    MGTOW is LARPing in that it starts with the absurd premise than one can escape social dynamics and being at the effect of them.

    Any more sensible?

  29. @SJF – I doubt being overt is going to help at all, but have at it and let us know how it goes. As with your commentary, less is more…

  30. Stellar stuff, I like the fact that with just with a few major foundations of RP principles fully embraced, all the other links just naturally fall into place, like this post or study that was done, even if I hadn’t read or known about it I would still be exuding the attributes that trigger the effects. Reading the mechanics of how they actually work is a bonus and really fascinating.

  31. ” . . . heuristics . . .”

    . . . are methods of constructing models: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Solve_It

    “MGTOW is LARPing in that it starts with the absurd premise than one can escape social dynamics and being at the effect of them.”

    A man who tries to fly in an Airfix model of a Supermarine Spitfire is in error, not the model.

    Where we disagree is regarding your premise of the premise.

    To employ a heuristic, given a Red Pill map of the social territory, one in which the population density of women increases from west to east, PUA’s travel east. The MGTOW premise is that a man is not bound to that direction, he may travel west as well.

    You define MGTOW as clean off the map. Ergo you conclude that there are no true MGTOW, by tautology.

    I define it as traveling west. The road is sparsely populated compared to that to the east, but it is not devoid of travelers.

    As you approach the limits of the map, you approach LARPing, as the predictive value of the map fails. This is true for whatever direction you travel (and Blue Pill is a false map, here there be LARPing everywhere).

  32. “Dread is very easy to over do and once it is over done, it can rock the core of a relationship beyond repair. See: trust.”

    Trust, rapport, comfort, familiarity are all anti-seductive conditions. They are simply not conducive to prompting genuine desire or sexual tension and urgency.

    Women want a man who other men want to be and other women want to bang. The fact that they can, with effort, retain the interest of such a Man becomes a source of self-affirmation for them. Don’t deny them this satisfaction by being so easy to default to trust and reassurances. In doing so you expose their insecurities to themselves and they will despise you for doing so and themselves for having them when you show them they have nothing to worry themselves about.

    As YaReally is quick to point out, women are looking for the panoply of emotional experience from men and life in general. If she doesn’t receive that from you, if you aren’t the source of both her need for indignation and casual comfort, rest assured, she will create it for herself without your influence.

    No one is saying to base your relationships solely on Dread; that’s simply unsustainable. However, far too many men, Beta men, default to comfort and reassurances when opportunities for artfully applying Dread present themselves. As I’ve always said, passive Dread prompted by unsolicited social proof is far more effective than the threat of overtly using Dread in a direct fashion. Overt Dread will always seem contrived and abusive, whereas passive Dread comes from without; it’s organic Dread that’s manifested in other’s behaviors and words towards you.

    It’s too easy to think that Dread precipitates the interests of only damaged, insecure or BPD women. This is exactly what the feminine would have men believe so it creates social conventions to reinforce this narrative in men. “Don’t use Dread, you’ll only attract the ‘wrong’ kind of woman.” The truth is Dread is universally applicable to all women and they know this.

    They know this because Hypergamy is founded on the doubt of it being optimized. That doubt can be a very powerful tool for the man who’s willing to use Dread to artfully stoke it in his favor.

    Women’s imagination is the most powerful tool in your Game toolbox:

    https://therationalmale.com/2011/08/25/imagination/

    Dread isn’t just for BPD, LSE women; used with a degree of measure it can become a casual source of reaffirming your value with a woman. Too many Beta guys succumb to the scarcity mentality and fear that even experimenting with Dread will mean the end of their relationship.

    Unfortunately they’re probably right because men trapped in that scarcity schema are more often than not viewed as harmless if not valueless due to their easily observable lack of sexual options. On some level of consciousness they understand that they don’t hold Frame with their women, so any attempt at using Dread (to say nothing of overt Dread) comes off as insecure bravado or an empty threat. It seems silly to them because they understand they lack the equity to inspire genuine anxiety in a woman – and if they did, even accidentally, their fear of loss will prompt them to overstating their devotions and thus further emphasizing their optionless state to that woman.

  33. RealTalk’s suggestion:

    My reaction:

    If all this hard work and self improvement is to marry an HB3 Slagathor and crank out some butt ugly crotch goblins, I got better shit to do. Seriously bro, try harder.

  34. @Rollo
    “Trust, rapport, comfort, familiarity are all anti-seductive conditions. They are simply not conducive to prompting genuine desire or sexual tension and urgency.”

    RSDTodd has a great explanation of this concept from an ONS/SNL seduction/pickup frame (vs an LTR frame) nicely here for the guys who are trying to wrap their head around what you’re saying (starting at 2:40):

    The things that make you a good Provider ACTIVELY make you a worse candidate for being a Lover in her mind. And the stuff you do that builds comfort/rapport/familiarity/etc actually make you less of a Same Night Lay candidate.

    Julien talks about this a lot too (Todd recaps it around 8 minutes into this vid)…when you give her your number, she no longer feels urgency because she thinks “I like this guy, but I have his number so we can hang out some other time right now I need to take my drunk friend home”. And she FULLY BELIEVES in the moment that she’s going to meet up with you again. But when the 2016 dynamics play out she flakes.

    But if you refuse to give her your number and can make it clear that she has ONE shot with you, either she puts her drunk friend in a cab and sends her home and comes with you or she never sees you again, you artificially create urgency and fear of loss (dread game basically), which helps land the lay that night.

    I still instinctively go for the number and comfort/rapport when I have her attracted because that’s what was working before technology fucked everything up, but it’s a habit I’m working on breaking infield and I’m learning to build that dread/fear of loss in them more.

    The reality is in 2016 they have endless orbiters and fuckbois and tinder guys to provide everything they need…from buying them shit to giving them validation to giving them sex even to giving them a bit of drama here and there. So unless they happen to be horny in that exact moment that you’re texting her, why WOULD she meet up? And even then, why would she come to meet YOU instead of just telling you to come to her and if you won’t she has 10 other guys that will.

    The ONLY things those guys don’t give her is devalidation and fear of loss. Julien’s game makes complete sense to me now lol He was just ahead of the curve with the <25yo crowd. I think my game will end up evolving toward extreme devalidation. Like that "Rich fat CEO" game Julien described where it's like "how old are you? Too young, fuck off little girl." could be where my game ends up going.

    Like Saturday I had a good vibe with a chick, including making out with another girl in front of her like full preselection etc and she demanded I take her number. Sounds solid right? She's flaking on meeting up. Because now she isn't in the state she was in in the club and now that she'd have to get off her ass to come meet up, it's too much work because she has all these other guys she can tell to come over who won't care if she even shaves her legs or anything lol And they'll bring her Starbucks. And go home if she changes her mind and decides not to fuck them after all. And be at her beck and call the next time she decides she wants Starbucks.

    But that's partly my fault, because when she said to take her number I fell into old habits that USED to work and whipped out my phone. The second I did that she no longer felt a sense of urgency or immediacy. I became a guy that she's attracted to but it's not worth putting her friend in a cab home and coming with me because she has my number and we can just hang out tomorrow or next week etc. I was even pitching "put your friend in a cab, it's fine, she'll forgive you, let's go" etc.

    But if I had said "I don't give out my number. Come with me now or you're never going to see me again.", she would have been more like to follow the "put her in a cab" suggestions because she feels fear of loss/dread.

    I have a lot more thoughts on all this stuff but I'm doing a lot of infield experimenting right now before I make any adamant conclusions. But from what I'm seeing when I look around for other guys' experiences, I'm not the only one noticing this stuff.

    A lot of golden advice is in this video:

    And Julien's devalidation stacking in his PIMP product is a huge asset now (check the second half of the first vid that comes up when you type "julien pimp chase" in YouTube for the relevant part).

    And here's a great thread on the TRP forums about the way social media has shifted things:

    https://archive.is/WhfzL

    I like this dude's ideas on phone game since I'm now switching to calling instead of texting and will be trying them out on my next numbers (though ideally I get SNLs over numbers because once you get a number you go into the chode orbiter herd and make things more difficult), but it's a good recap that even in 2014 things were starting to shift. I have phenomenal text game so I didn't notice the shift until late 2015 because I was still able to overcome the chode herd with my text skills, but my buddy who has weak text game felt this happening in 2014. So I'm a little late to the party, I just figured other guys had shitty text game lol but mine is falling flat now and even my buddy is like "man if YOUR text game isn't working then we need a new approach 'cause things have clearly changed" lol

    Like I've said a million times: PUA isn't about waxing armchair theory, it's about what WORKS infield and holds up under pressure testing. The second something stops working or something more efficient comes along, we adapt and experiment with it and figure out what needs to change to get back to efficient seduction. I would throw out everything I currently use if field experience made it clear that it doesn't work anymore. I worked hard on my text game and got it to an amazing level, but now that every chode is in the texting herd on her phone and building too much rapport/comfort makes her LESS likely to meet up, I have to basically throw all my text game out the window and switch to laconic texts and phone calls lol Kind of sucks, but the field is king…if I wasn't going out regularly I would be giving outdated information that worked before social media but falls flat now. It's vital to hit the field regularly and hit up that <25yo crowd.

  35. @Realtalk

    “Dread is very easy to over do and once it is over done, it can rock the core of a relationship beyond repair. See: trust.”

    My impression of this is that she should probably trust that you’re not out ACTIVELY SEEKING other women to mess around with but that she should be worried that you might fall over backwards into a “it just happened!” by virtue of how attractive you are to the opposite sex.

  36. @scribblerg

    “@SJF – Also, I didn’t say frame is power. Try to keep up…”

    Sorry, I’m having trouble with my words today.

    Me: “That’s the idea and with red pill/game it is going well except the Frame is not power thing.”

    Should have read:

    “That’s the idea and with red pill/game. It (my red/pill game) is going well these days. Except for the “Frame is not Power” thing. She still keeps frame well and I have trouble pulling her into mine”

    You: “I doubt being overt is going to help at all, but have at it and let us know how it goes. As with your commentary, less is more…”

    It is playing with fire, but it will be kept brief and not whiny, with good frame and game. Our relationship needs more polarity masculine-feminine. Its been a good 6 months since the last time it came up that she doesn’t want to be the dominant one, but there is no progress on that front. She keeps dominance. She keeps her frame. I keep my frame. What has happened is that I have eliminated the female stages of manipulation discussed in Joseph South’s book. My mindset is good and positive, but not complacent.

    Anyway, I’ll stop talking now.

  37. “The trick to employing soft or passive dread is making yourself sensitive to the opportunities to use it and then gently provoke it in as covert and indirect a way as possible. ‘

    Indeed. Dread required in LTR, absolutely required. And she will love it while it makes her unhappy at the same time.

    Examples…

    At picnic W’s friend, runs over “heloo handsome” turns to wife while squeezing my arm “he looks younger every time I see him!”

    At shop while on vacation… Stop at counter, direct eye contact with young shop girl “so…… where do you like to go out around here….?” Some banter. Later W grabs arm while going into dinner spot counter girl recommended… “Hmmmm. I didn’t like that. Seemed like you were going to pick her up”… Me:”oh so you think she would have gone out with me… interesting…”

    At local bar/restaurant with W. Walk in and every 5 minutes another waitress, female manager or bartender comes over and says hello… W “is there anyone you don’t know here?” This is one of the places I frequent when taking some space from the W at night… particularly if she has been behaving poorly…

  38. And to pre-empt the “SEE U GUISE JUST SUPPLICATE TO WOMEN U ARE JUST BEING WUT U THINK THEY WANT U TO BEEEEEE PUSSY-BEGGARRRRRRR!!!!” crowd:

    This isn’t changing my core values or belief system, it’s simply modifying which parts of my values/beliefs I highlight in an interaction. ie – it’s always been important to me that the girl is, say, able to come to my part of the city because I don’t have a car and in general making an effort to go see her feels a bit supplicative to me even if it works, it just goes against what I, personally, want to do in an interaction.

    In the past I could build enough comfort/rapport with her to make her decide to travel to my part of the city to meet up, so I could achieve that goal by highlighting the parts of myself that build a comfort/rapport bond with her. But now since I’m finding they have too much abundance to make that effort to come to my part of the city, and I know they respond to more fear of loss and devalidation etc, instead of highlighting the parts of myself that would build comfort/rapport, I’ll instead be highlighting the parts of my core system that don’t want to put up with that lazy shit and shove that in her face more.

    It’s not that my core values or belief system has changed, I’m not running out to buy a car to go to their place or anything, it’s just the external presentation that I’m changing, highlighting the same values but in a different manner that I’m calibrating will be more effective. Like how in sales you’re still selling the same product but to an old woman you might build rapport with her and highlight certain features while to a young guy you might talk shit to goad him into it while highlighting other features…you’re still selling the same product, for the same price, you’re just calibrating your external presentation.

    I fully expect the nuances of this explanation to go over a lot of anti-game guys’ heads tho so bring it on lol

  39. @SJF, the ‘Man in the Arena’ speech is pure fucking gold.

    I posted it a few weeks back in response to all the MGTOW whining.

  40. Sort of answering my own question about hormonal contraception, ovulation and Dread:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormonal_contraception

    If I read right, this article claims 18% of contraception is hormonal. I find that kind of amazing, given the amount of estrogen that shows up in various water supplies in North America and Europe. Seriously 18%? That seems pretty low. Maybe I’ll chase that cite to see where it goes.

    However, if hormonal contraception is really only used by a minority of fertile women, then the original posting is valid in over 80% of women.

  41. Actual real world examples of female mate guarding i notice when out with one of my plates

    -When a pretty girl walks by/sits near, they will do the hair thing girls do when they want you to notice them. Sometimes both the stranger and my plate are in a battle, each repeatedly flipping their hair back lol

    -When its a pretty waitress, they cut each other off instead of waiting for the other to finish sentences. Seems like plate wants waitress to leave table as fast as possible to keep me from flirting more. This one is funny cuz plate ends up looking like rude customer and waitress seems “snippy” according to plate. Last night the waitress spilled a little bit of water on plate legs and didnt even apologize lmao

    -If i do elevator eyes on a girl walking by or notice a nice ass, plate will immediately redirect conversation to get my attention back. Especially when it happens when i am the one speaking and i am quite obviously distracted by the breezy walking by. Sometimes it is straight up non-sensical crap. Like i was talking about music, notice a nice ass, look at it and boom wifey pretty much shouts “SO there is a lot of rain in london” ???!?

    -They turn their feet/ttorso away from the pretty girl who is a threat, orient their body straight at me and only look directly at me. This is pretty much a demand of my full attention

    -My favorite is when all of a sudden i get a hug from behind, a peck on the cheek or three, my hand grabbed like a kid about to cross the street etc. I always look around to see which girl she noticed and wanted to say “stay away bitch” to. Sometimes I see plate smirk as they do this, as if to say “He is mine!” P.S. The only “mate guarding” i do in public is grab a handful of ass or spank when it amuses me, not out of fear cuz some handsome dude is nearby. I never hug em, hold hands while walking but only for short periods and i do kiss passionately under streetlights cuz who doesnt love that.

    -Hot sex as soon as we get home/in the car. On sat got roadhead from plate 2 after dinner with a couple. The friends wifey was very fiesty and i busted hard core amused mastery techniques. Hell, she openly flirted with my in front of her boyfriend and my plate. After dinner she commented on my build, shoe size and butt. BJ started about 30 seconds down the road. Sunday plate 1 gave me a handy in the car (she was driving lol) after going to a restaurant full of hot young chicks who kept shooting me looks and flipping hair to try and get my attention.

    -Passive aggressive comments like Rollo said, “watch out!” or “don’t go getting a big head” I just laugh. Remember you dont care if she comes stays lays or prays, keep your toes tappin like Damone said. This is part of the “be an oak” part of CH’s 16 commandments – Study amused mastery and master it. Bill Burr, the red pill comedian had a great line for when your girl sees you do something cool she didnt know you could do like karaoke (“watch out sinatra”) or when you get a nice sports car and they say “youre too old for that car” – Just smile at em, pinch their cheek lovingly and say, “Its okay babe, im not gonna leave you” Fries the hamster from orbit lmaoooo

  42. To watch some of these dynamics in action on a very subtle level (like the girls competing for him will try to get his attention or stand closer to him etc trying to mate-guard reacting to preselection/jealousy and social proof), there’s a video in Julien’s PIMP product called “How I pick up an eastern european model in the day” which has a good demo of him taking over a starbucks (along with analysis breakdowns and explanations of his mindsets/strategies) and playing girls off eachother and pretending to know people he doesn’t know and toward the end he even introduces a random girl as his girlfriend to another girl who he tells that the random girl is his girlfriend so they both think the other is his girlfriend when they meet and then he walks off with the hotter one lol

    Also in Julien’s SHIFT product there’s an infield vid called “Getting into state” where he has a few bootcamp students and they all run preselection/social proof game in the daytime building up a huge hub of girls who all think they know the other girls and you can see the girls reacting to the shifting dynamics and new girls entering the set and how much Julien’s value raises just by running a little strategy and understanding how it affects the dynamics and the girls’ perceptions.

    It costs $0, you don’t have to be drunk, you don’t have to go to a bar, you don’t have to be <30, you don't have to be jacked, you can just go out and apply this type of strategic shit and boost your value up from nothing.

    There are some other good infield vids with full breakdowns (30 min from meet to pull (literally into his apartment including having to distract her from the cameraman in the same elevator as them "oh god who's this creepy guy he's stalking us come here hide behind me this is so creepy oh god" lol it's hilarious) or to solid number closes) in his SHIFT product…I highly recommend checking them out. His game isn't even THAT great, there's lot of uncalibrated shit in places but he understands the overall strategy and when to shift gears and calibrate and push things and when to jump through windows or force them open and when to stick in where other guys would eject etc…

    In his SHIFT product, the one titled "Night Chill game (that anybody can do)" is great, he goes up against all odds to pull off a solid number and possibly a "ditch your friends" pull handling a huge group of mother hens gaming a girl over a railing (not even being IN the club himself) and you can see a bunch of better looking dudes around them but the girls are all focused on him because he's the one bringing the emotions…the "From Club to Apartment" one is a good example of just overall solid game and plowing through obstacles (her friend in the club and her wanting to go back for her friend and dealing with drunk people and trying to handle the cameraman following them (it sounds impossible till you see how he does it and then it makes sense that she doesn't clue in)). And "Nightgame at Hot LA Club" where he picks up some pornstar chick is a good example of a VERY solid number close with massive hardcore time-bridging which is what I think is necessary to get solid number closes these days and handling Tyler interrupting and trying to sabotage the set and her big jacked orbiter friend etc. And "Daygame Warm Up, Approach and Pull" is a good vid of him way out of state and super uncalibrated and awkward but slowly loosening up and just sticking in set and trying to self-amuse until he gets into a more natural flow and he takes a stripper back to his hotel room off the street.

    Definitely find a way to check them out, they're each like 30 min long and he does full breakdowns throughout them. Very valuable learning resource and you can watch a lot of pickup dynamics playing out in realtime with crystal clear footage.

    Yup, they are definitely great resources and OH NO WHOOPS I SLIPPED AND FELL AND OH NO WHAT JUST SPILLED ALL OVER THE GROUND:

    OH GOD I'M SO CLUMSY NO ONE BETTER DOWNLOAD AND SAVE THOSE HOURS OF VALUABLE INFIELD BREAKDOWN FOOTAGE TO WATCH AND LEARN FROM BEFORE THEY GET DELETED THAT'S FOR SURE ESPECIALLY NOT GUYS LIKE @FORGE THE SKY @CULUM STRUAN @SCRIBBLERG @SUN WUKONG @SENTIENT ETC

    …lol

  43. @newlyaloof he Newly… hope all is well with you.

    “Not for nothing, but I can always expect some very memorable sex with Mrs. T the nights before I have to fly out to Vegas”

    Indeed even in the midst of BP marriage W was always one to drain the nutsack prior to business travel. It’s programmed in. LOL

  44. (also I recommend watching the Night Chill Game video first, it’s the best example of overall skillset that anyone can do with the best calibration to what’s going on…this is the most “flawless” pickup in terms of him creating a smooth pickup experience. There’s more miscalibration in the nightclub ones etc, but pay attention to the little things like his subcomms where he makes sure to lock-in (his back to a wall and the girl facing him), uses dominant kino, isn’t fazed by being rejected for the makeout, lets silences hang, tons of laser eye-contact, lots of self amusement, shifting into rapport/comfort at points then back out to attraction, plowing through obstacles/objections etc))

    (also he purposely tells girls he has 2 kids and a girlfriend for FUN, like he purposely handicaps himself because it’s self-amusing to him…THAT’S abundance lol)

  45. Credit where credit is due department: Athol Kay was the first man I read on the issue of ovulation and behavior, including images of women in various stages of the cycle.

    As with other Red Pill facts, the article referenced in Rollo’s OP explains some incidents in my college days that previously made utterly no sense. Female hormones can be mighty powerful…

  46. …and pretending to know people he doesn’t know,…

    True story. I accidentally came across how useful a technique this can be back in November while I was directing a commercial in Vegas.

    We’d meet at a cast/crew meet up after each day-night we shot and at one point I came across a very attractive woman who at first I thought I knew from some prior shoots.

    Turns out I didn’t, but instead of letting the ‘mistaken identity’ go all awkward, I do what I usually do and say, “well, who are you so I’ll know next time?” I do it so casually now and it comes really fluid so it’s not like a pick up because I’m not trying to, but that flow turns into attraction for her and she followed me around, hanging out with me and giving very obvious IOIs after the ‘insta-friends’ introduction.

    I imagine it’s powerful stuff if you can work it into an approach.

  47. @Anonymous Reader

    Regarding contraception studies have shown that it affects mate selection that is; the hormones within the pill or contraceptives that combine oestrogen and progestorone mimic a condition where the body thinks its pregnant. Therefore mate selection alters for these women who select less threatening men.

    I theorise that a lot of the feminisation of men, can be due to pressures from the opposite sex, which in their attempts to get laid and maximise their hypergamy resort to finding mates that are not what they would traditionally call attractive. Now the real fun starts when the couple decides they want to have children and the effect is taken away.

    Let me find two videos and I’ll put them one after the other:

    Coltaine’s video:
    I suggest you watch this first, in to remove doubts as to the significance of the effect of feminism and to show the dramatic effect a biological change has played on the female of our species.

    Following that watch Stardusk’s follow up video on the effect of the combined contraceptive pill for women.

    People in this forum might disagree on the conclusions that these two men might make as to how they live their life, but one cannot deny the deep research that goes into these videos.

  48. @YaReally

    OH GOD I’M SO CLUMSY NO ONE BETTER DOWNLOAD AND SAVE THOSE HOURS OF VALUABLE INFIELD BREAKDOWN FOOTAGE TO WATCH AND LEARN FROM BEFORE THEY GET DELETED THAT’S FOR SURE ESPECIALLY NOT GUYS LIKE @FORGE THE SKY @CULUM STRUAN @SCRIBBLERG @SUN WUKONG @SENTIENT ETC

    That’s your spaghetti story, ain’t it?

  49. Completely off point and it killed my productivity for a few mins, but i just had to share this. Lose 10 mins of your life too!

  50. @Rollo
    “I imagine it’s powerful stuff if you can work it into an approach.”

    That’s a good example of moving a pawn, but it’s even more powerful if you use it to work the entire chessboard.

    Oldschool Mystery Method used a lot of merging sets, merging sets forward, and springboarding off sets…the idea being that if you open a set and introduce them to another set as your friends, neither set realizes that you don’t know the other set because normally anyone who does that would know the people involved, and no one really questions it because why WOULD you? Especially if you provide them conversation topics like “this is Sarah she said she loves your dress” etc

    By the time anyone actually gets around to asking “so how do you know YaReally?” they all already love you enough that they think it’s ballsy/confident when everyone is like “we just met him, wait you did too??” and you’re already in another set with other girls lol

    Most guys have a really myopic view of pickup like “ok I want that girl, what can I say/do to her to get her” (not saying this is what you meant but just that’s how what you wrote is often interpreted by newbies). Whereas when you get all these dynamics you look at it more like “ok I want that girl, what can I say/do AROUND her to get her?” which is often the best way to go for the really hot ones because the hottest girls often need to choose YOU. Like oldschool Mystery/Tyler said “You don’t choose a 10, a 10 chooses YOU.”

    So that’s where we get into “well if I opened the dudes right there, I’ll have social proof to open the mixed set beside them, and I can use those girls as preselection to make that 10s set more receptive to me opening them, then engage her friends and ignore her so she chases my attention, and now I have that girl choosing me and seeing me as super high-value because as far as she knows I KNOW all those people I she’s seen me talking to, especially if I can introduce a couple of them by name to her group…compared to if I had just gone right into her group and said “hey I think you’re adorable I had to come say hi” or just have a smooth pickup line like “don’t I know you from somewhere?” that I deliver directly to her (in fact you could combine the two, do all that other shit and then when she’s vying for your attention and you tease her a bit THEN say “don’t I know you from somewhere?” and go into that routine)

    I love the game lol This strategy stuff is all fun to me. And it’s why I don’t have to be jacked or rich or young or have a car or a nice condo or know anyone when I walk into the venue/event etc…because a guy who can execute that strategy comes off high-value even if he’s dressed like a homeless bum etc because girls will just assume “well he MUST be high-value maybe he’s just really casual about being rich or maybe he’s a powerful movie producer or something, he has all this social value so I’m curious what everyone else knows that I don’t” and that’s enough of an “in” to build Attraction and go into Rapport/Comfort/extract/etc. And once she likes me she’ll rationalize away all my flaws…if she wants a ride in a BMW she has 5 orbiters with BMWs for that, but those guys won’t excite her with an emotional rollercoaster like my teasing her will.

  51. @Rollo – The best sex I had with my erstwhile wife a million years ago was when I would go out after work for drinks, and only tell her late with a call from the bar. I had a long commute so this usually meant a late night arrival home. She’d be furious with me on the phone but would fuck my brains out when I climbed into bed reeking of cigs and booze and half blotto. Didn’t need to be nice about it either. Rarely was our sex life like that at other times.

    Yet one of many things I could not understand pre-Red Pill.

    @Ya – Shit gets deeper, holy crap. So much to digest from your comments and can’t get to it now. Only can cosign how the vibe is changing. Young hottie reaches out to me on FB and friends me – I didn’t ask her to, know her from real life and then ignores me when I message her. It’s like social media and text and tinder etc have short circuited their forebrains (not like, it probably is so, see Biology of Desire). They’ve become conditioned to simply look for instant feelz and it overwhelms all conscious functions.

    But it does make sense. I mean, if they don’t want to “date” (figured that out fo sho now), why would they want to text? What I’m very curious is about is what happens when these girlies hit the wall? Beta chodes will still abound, no doubt but will they have any practice even being a girlfriend? Will they even be able to fake it?

    Gonna spend 9 hours trying to digest all the shit you shared, after 8 more hours of work, lol. Great stuff, keep it coming.

  52. @YaReally Good insights. This is very much like DJing. I now have a big collection of songs. Some I include each time, others I mix up. It’s generally high energy but then I can add or remove songs depending on the mood of the crowd. Same with the soundboard. Maybe the songs are ok but their sound quality is off, so I then adjust the bass, treble or gain.

    If you just played the same songs every time without any calibration you’d lose the attention of the group very quickly.

    Too much “dread” and you scare her off. Too little dread and she starts to take advantage.

  53. lmao I fucking love you guys. YaReally, thank you as always for your sage advice you’re the filthy big brother we never had

  54. I’m betting a degree of what Rollo mentions here happens with women policing each other during GNO as well. I talked to the friend who acted as the worst wing ever about some of what went on the night I got a beer tossed at me. His very Blue Pill view of why he jumped in and cock blocked aside (“You were being an asshole” “Yes, I was, and it was working before you jumped in”), I got some valuable observation that he accidentally made without realizing the subcomms.

    The chick that ultimately wound up tossing a beer at me was aware that a) her kids’ stepmother (yes the 25yo HB8 I was hitting on) was in the proliferative phase and wearing no wedding ring b) had given me a massive double take initially c) was reacting very strongly to the game I was running. All of her theatrics and histrionics were her reaction to realizing exactly what was going on. She was LIVID and my buddy was hearing all of it without realizing that meant what I was doing was working.

    Women are aware of ALL this shit I other women and will go so far as ASSAULTING someone to get serve their own interests.

    Funny aside: I don’t want to go back to that bar because it’s mostly post wall rich bitch train wreck having drama, but my buddy thinks I should be hiding from what I did if I do go back. Shit, I might walk in with a beer bottle pinned to my shirt and shit eating grin on my face to tell the bitch I’m saving her the time of having to find a bottle if I didn’t have no interest in going back.

  55. @SJF

    i love Jim Rohn…here’s the full quote:

    “Don’t wish it was easier wish you were better. Don’t wish for less problems wish for more skills. Don’t wish for less challenge wish for more wisdom”

    @scribblerg

    “I got lazy as fuck and lived in a delusional, ego buffered sea of nonsense so long that I’m out of practice. Cracking the whip on myself at 53 is no fucking joke. Every day is a roller coaster – but I’m improving every day. It’s amazing how one can retreat into inner delusions and interpret everything in self-serving ways without realizing it.”

    i’m right there with you…i think the hardest thing (besides my self-limiting beliefs…and i’ve still got a ton of these…lol) is that seeing shit in the real world through red pill lenses wears on your sanity. it’s like everybody else is trying to ‘gas light’ you…lol… bc they react in ways that are both predictably ‘normal’ and ‘crazy’ at the same time…lol

    the real mind f’k for me is that i’m just realizing (today actually) that i’m using my hard-won ability with girls (i put a shit load of effort into that…and now THAT’s my comfort zone…lol) as a buffer to my self-improvement in other areas…lol…

    by the way, (i’ll only mention this once to get it off my chest/out of my system) i know you have huge animosity towards MGTOW (and i think i got ‘enough’ background to understand why…and i happen to agree with some of it…) but i just wanted to point out a couple of things –

    first, those men are not the actual enemy (useful idiots sure…but cluelessly so…). the actual enemy is the FI…and i generally try not to shit on other men, even if they are being clueless retards…lol… bc their life is going to be hard enough without me spending energy making it harder…and that laundry list of ‘reasons’ you gave for the ‘LARPing’ is hard to get over/work through (even with help/support)…but ESPECIALLY when you are feeling alone in the world (and the FI is a cunning foe…). and the FI specifically creates that lack of trust between men (Rollo has a bunch of posts on this specific idea)…and you can’t push men to change faster than their limbic subsystems can handle it…or they’ll shatter…

    that said…

    IF you REALLY want to f’k with them…you need to be welcoming and compliant as you subtly ‘troll’ them in a way that increases their cognitive dissonance…lol…and lead them to the light…there’s a REASON they show up here, instead of some ‘bitch and moan MGTOW hugbox’…at some basic level they are actually open to the red pill full meal deal…

    @Rollo

    “The fact that they can, with effort, retain the interest of such a Man becomes a source of self-affirmation for them. Don’t deny them this satisfaction by being so easy to default to trust and reassurances.”

    who wants to be cheated out of a win?…and if she is in a LTR, what other source of female ‘competition’ is she going to have access to?…at least where she can ‘win’…

    “If she doesn’t receive that from you, if you aren’t the source of both her need for indignation and casual comfort, rest assured, she will create it for herself without your influence.”

    translation for the peanut gallery = cheating…

    @kfg

    you think too much…i like that…lol

    @YaReally at jan 26 at 9:24am

    calling Culum…Culum Struan to the courtesy phone…lol…

    good luck!

  56. @Scribbler: ” . . . will they have any practice even being a girlfriend?”

    No.

    “Will they even be able to fake it?”

    Fake it? They don’t even understand that it exists. What will save them is that the beta chodes don’t either.

    I don’t “date” in the conventional sense myself, build social value rather easily and I’m not looking for a girlfriend, so “hang” culture works very well for me personally, but The Culture(tm) is already a dead man walking.

  57. @scribblerg
    “What I’m very curious is about is what happens when these girlies hit the wall? Beta chodes will still abound, no doubt but will they have any practice even being a girlfriend? Will they even be able to fake it?”

    Mass chaos. Beta uprising shootings will skyrocket as the gap in the 80/20 becomes 95/5 (already from what I’m seeing I can’t imagine how a normal AFC is getting any kind of pussy, they need the planets to align like a miracle just to get some social circle 5 wasted and high and bored/horny enough to happen to pick them for one night and that guy is probably a PIMP compared to his buddies). Open cuckoldry will be in full swing. Men will raise other men’s children and be too scared of feminists and the law to protest it if they know about it, or commit suicide when they find out about it.

    Divorce-raping a couple suckers before 30 will be a standard mass-spread tactic for securing provision without being locked down. These chicks at 30+ will use every tactic in the book and then some to lock down sucker beta chodes, including getting as much of the law and government on their side as possible to take money from single guys like me to pay for their bad decisions and ADD behavior, especially as they realize working at 40+ isn’t fun like it was at 25 when the CEO with a wife and 2 kids was flirting with them in the office.

    Millions of bastard sons and daughters will grow up in broken homes and when single moms die their kids all end up orphaned. That generation will grow up even more fucked up because even if they have “parents” they’ll be some fucked up combo of a single mom spending all day on Facebook inviting random Tinder guys over and some beta chode cuckold who puts up with it and neither will have the ability or experience to instill or teach/demonstrate any kind of discipline or self-control so that when that generation grows up the end of society will begin.

    I’ve always kept a pretty optimistic outlook, but the more time I spend around the <25yo crowd (tons of stories I haven't told you guys) the more it's looking like this:

    …because it's not there isn't a way out of this spiral. It's that more and more I can't think of a reason why anyone in the <25yo generation would WANT a way out of it or would have the self-discipline/control to stick to a way out of it. They're happy as fuck with how things are because they don't see the long-term consequences of their current actions. They're a beautiful mess and won't figure that out until it blindsides them and they won't be equipped to deal with it and those of us that could give them guidance will be long gone. That's why red pill writing is important…it'll outlive us all and may turn things around one day, long after we're all dust.

    In the meantime I will be lounging poolside, sipping a margarita with a 19yo giving me head as I watch it all burn down.

  58. @scribblerg

    “It’s like social media and text and tinder etc have short circuited their forebrains”

    It’s not just the young hotties though… it’s all women, all the time. The 6.5 from the recent FR, she was on her phone the entire night texting and Fb’ing with FOUR different guys at once. I was teasing her about tinder and match.com and she gave me her phone and her friend is like “oh yeah” she has this guy here, that guy there… this one flying her in for the weekend” etc. and her phone was blowing up the whole night…. a late 30’s 6.5.

  59. @Sun Wukong
    “His very Blue Pill view of why he jumped in and cock blocked aside (“You were being an asshole” “Yes, I was, and it was working before you jumped in”)”

    lol that’s why I’m keeping a low profile in my new city. I don’t want to have a bunch of blue pill guys around me when I’m sarging. Just recently I befriended one who was passing through town and he was an otherwise cool guy but of course when the smokin 9 sat down beside me and I started busting on her and we had deep sexual laser eye-contact with little flirty subcomms as we joked about her tits, buddy chirps up “DUDE YOU CAN’T SAY THAT TO GIRLS YOU SHOULDN’T SAY THAT MAN WOW SORRY ABOUT MY BUDDY THAT’S REALLY RUDE MAN” and of course now that the girl has social clout to shit-test me with she jumps on board with him so it’s 2 on 1 and her friend reads the situation as she doesn’t like me and pulls her away before I can smooth it over.

    Meanwhile I would have had both of us laid by them if he had shut the fuck up lol ’cause she was LOVING it until HE set the precedent that it was “wrong”.

    I would much rather sarge solo or with just one good wingman than have a dozen of those guys in every bar I walk into lol When I’m in my late 40s feeling too old for the bars (though that’s questionable with you old fucks here setting a good inspiring example of still hitting it up at 50+ lol) I might go that route and just deal with them because I’ll at least get social circle benefits (aka the poon they foolishly bring around an old man with a frame 100000x stronger than theirs and a shitload of experience seducing girls lol), but right now nope, I don’t wanna deal with that hassle even if it means I have to pay cover or don’t get as many free drinks or have a few nights where I’m inside my head feeling like the loner at the bar etc.

  60. @Having a Bad Day:

    Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?

    Scribbler thinks I don’t think enough. What you see here is one corner of my brain thinking on autopilot while the main portion is devoted to something unrelated.

    It’s the thinking I can do rather thoughtlessly.

  61. @Ya “DUDE YOU CAN’T SAY THAT TO GIRLS YOU SHOULDN’T SAY THAT MAN WOW SORRY ABOUT MY BUDDY THAT’S REALLY RUDE MAN”

    Lolololol….. that is verbatim what my WK buddy is always always doing…. But he usually says I’m an asshole as well… I keep shaking my head thinking he will get it but he is constitutionally incapable of it. Which is funny because he is pretty alpha in all traditional ways – money, exec job, hunts, fishes, uses tools etc…

    Maybe there is some hope for him. We were out the other night in local place in my town, he comes scurrying back from the bathroom and says XX is here, she just hugged me and pressed her tits up on me (like a beta). I’m like, OK for you then (?). XX is a manager of a restaurant we go to, good looking early 30, trying to find a guy… Know her well. Tease her regularly.

    So I look over and see her 40 feet away with a dude, give her a nod and back turn. Start talking back with my buddy. 10 seconds later she has come all the way over to give me a huge hug. Then spends 10 minutes catching up. I remind her about her guy and look over there (he was on his phone) and she is like Oh yeah and goes back there. Buddy is looking at me.

    Then the 7 25 YO bartender comes over to me, the one I am always making fun of and throwing shit at and he is apologizing to her for me all the time, and gives me a cocktail. “I ordered this?” she says “no, I just know you like them. On me.” OK Cheers…

    Buddy looks at me and says… well I don’t feel so good about a hug now. and I tell him.. “see? whose the asshole?” LOL

    Sometimes the camel needs a lot of straw on its back, one little ole piece at a time…

  62. @Sentient
    “and her friend is like “oh yeah” she has this guy here, that guy there… this one flying her in for the weekend” etc. and her phone was blowing up the whole night…. a late 30’s 6.5.”

    Yup. Like I say, any guy who doubts girls are COMMONLY coming out of college with N-counts of 50+, just hang onto a 6’s cell phone for a weekend and look at her social media and ask yourself how much self-restraint YOU would have if YOU had that many offers coming at you and no one telling you not to take them and in fact all of society telling you you’re empowered if you DO take them.

    One move I’ve been seeing to give you an idea of what’s happening out there: these girls go get wasted and fucked up on drugs, then Tinder like 10 guys to come over because in their mind they just want to keep the good feels fun going. And whichever guys show up and fight it out over her and win, she fucks them…OR SHE DOESN’T and she just gets too fucked up wasted and goes to bed and passes out and just leaves all the guys in her apartment for her roommates etc to deal with and kick out or straggle around and she just hopes it all goes away somehow by morning because there’s no concept of responsibility or danger or anything. It’s just “bad feels, I don’t wanna deal with it, bye I’m going to bed” and she just assumes it’ll all work itself out for her.

    You might think “oh that’s just the crazy bar sluts”. But that’s because you haven’t hung around the <25yo crowd much and seen how widespread this shit is right now. It's not that they're ALL doing this kind of thing, but it's NOT just a minority anymore, and it's not even just in the <25yo crowd.

    And you might say "oh well go to Eastern Europe etc they're all magical unicorns there" but they're not. The RSD guys fly all over the world and half of Julien's infield footage is in EE with those unicorns reacting to PUA just like girls here do. You might find some unicorns in some small EE village somewhere just like you might find some in some small-town USA somewhere, but at the end of the day you are fighting an entire SOCIETY pushing the social conditioning on them to embrace self-destruction. Even if you DID meet a unicorn, you would have a hell of a task in front of you to keep them from being influenced by society and social media and social conditioning over the course of a 40 year marriage, especially if you get your unicorn 21yo virgin and she has to make it through her 20s without going on a girl's night out where her friends will try to bring her down into the mud with them so they feel better about themselves lol

    This is kind of partly why I can't entirely blame MGTOW for their choice to just bail on the whole thing lol Like, I GET it. There are things you can do to help with this stuff when you understand game, like I let girls know I don't think drugs are cool and they aren't allowed to do that shit around me and that I'll send them home if they show up at my door hammered when I carved out time for them etc. And my buddy and I are fieldtesting some ideas on setting date frames that encourage the girls to come out for drinks INSTEAD of coming over to netflix & chill (which I can't believe we have to do now lol, but like I want girls to dress up and to come to my part of the city, I don't want to just head to their place and fuck them in their sweatpants, so I'm experimenting with "can I make that sound cool and exciting and make netflix & chill sound lame and boring?").

    But I would say right now and the next 5-10 years are probably going to be the bleakest era. I still think all these feminists dying alone and bitter will help shift things after that, but it'll be an uphill battle. Social media isn't going anywhere, BUT the fact that girls are starting to respond well to cold approach live pickup again now that all the chodes are using Tinder as a buffer, little signs like that tell me that girls are realizing for their own self-interest they may need to try new tactics out. Like I say a lot of what I'm saying is for the 1-8 range of girls…the legit smokin hot stunners seem more likely (so far) to appreciate the value of a guy who can cold approach, call them instead of txt, lead things forward, etc because the 1-8 girls don't know those Tinder guys are mostly chodes but the 9-10 girls have often met enough of them or have enough of them in their social circle that they know those are a dead end and the 50,000 likes on their Instagram photo don't mean anything like they do to the 1-8 girls.

  63. @Sentient

    “It’s not just the young hotties though… it’s all women, all the time. The 6.5 from the recent FR, she was on her phone the entire night texting and Fb’ing with FOUR different guys at once. I was teasing her about tinder and match.com and she gave me her phone and her friend is like “oh yeah” she has this guy here, that guy there… this one flying her in for the weekend” etc. and her phone was blowing up the whole night…. a late 30’s 6.5.”

    What I don’t get about this is just the math. I mean, it’s not like there are all of a sudden ten times as many guys as girls. Are these beta chode dudes just choding it up for multiple girls all spam approach style? Like “If I can’t fly Ashley to Paris, I’ll see if I can get Stacy, Katie or Jessica to go with me.” ?

  64. @Sentient
    “Lolololol….. that is verbatim what my WK buddy is always always doing…. But he usually says I’m an asshole as well… I keep shaking my head thinking he will get it but he is constitutionally incapable of it. Which is funny because he is pretty alpha in all traditional ways – money, exec job, hunts, fishes, uses tools etc…”

    The irony is if he made ONE little shift and simply lol’ed along with what you said and when the girl looked at him he said in a FUN way “lol ya watch out my buddy is an asshole” like not in an embarrassed/scolding way like he’s apologizing for you but in a playful/challenging way like “yup he’s an asshole but we all love him so what are ya gonna do girlie? lol”

    If he made that ONE shift, you would get MASSIVE attraction boosts from the girls because he would be setting the precedent that what you’re doing is FINE and actually FUNNY and she’s pinging off her environment for how to feel so that’s two awesome guys lol’ing about this thing you said/did, so she assumes well it must be awesome then so I’ll be attracted now!

    I have tons of experience with this because when I sarge around new people I learned I have to tone down my assholishness a ton because they will sabotage me by killing the vibe since they don’t get my style of game…but then when I’m gaming with my close buddies who know me and they react how I’m describing, I get crazy attraction and girls loving me.

    Bribe him to spend one night just lol’ing at everything you say to girls. Call it a social experiment lol

  65. @Dutchman
    “What I don’t get about this is just the math. I mean, it’s not like there are all of a sudden ten times as many guys as girls. Are these beta chode dudes just choding it up for multiple girls all spam approach style? Like “If I can’t fly Ashley to Paris, I’ll see if I can get Stacy, Katie or Jessica to go with me.” ?”

    Yup. That’s exactly what they’re doing. That’s part of the big shift mentioned somewhere in that TRP link I linked earlier in this thread. There was a point where people were just matching people they were into and crafted actual conversation etc, but now all the chodes are on these sites and just mass spamming the girls. With everything from pickup routines to “DTF?” etc

    Because those guys are so thirsty that they don’t really care which one they get…they can filter them out if they’re terrible once they hook them, they all just want the first response from anything.

    But the 2/10 fat uggo that all the 6-pack Joes (who’s too scared to cold approach so he’s on Tinder cause he has hot shirtless pics and can get laid in a system that reduces guys value down to their photos) swipe when they’re drunk and mass swiping 200 profiles without even looking at their phone screen, has 50 6-pack Joes matching her and thinks she’s batting a thousand…and a few of those guys will be lonely horny and desperate and drunk enough to come over and fuck her.

    Avoid online game, learn cold approach. Or get super jacked for online game and bang a bunch of 6s (who’ve invited 10 other guys to their after party at the same time as you) because the 9s are at the bar looking for the guy with balls enough to approach them or hanging in their social circles selecting guys through that lol

    (it’s probably not THAT bleak, like I’m sure good looking dudes can find the occasional 8 etc on Tinder and it’s definitely low investment to get a 6 to want to bang you but like, that’s not a path I would put newbies on that’s going to lead to them being happy in a good mental state down the road lol)

  66. @dutchman

    I think it is two things… guys are so thirsty they will follow a text string forever…. and Ms. Attention is just playing off that, so the convo’s never die they keep multiplying via accumulation. Cos guys keep playing along…

    Second, at least in the late 30’s 40’s range there aren’t many unattached good looking women and guys that age don’t think they can get young hot girls or are afraid to so there is a lot of competition from early 30’s guys through 60 YO’s… and women in that age range have all kind sof problems they love to dump on orbiters… blech…

  67. @YaReally

    Yeah. The number I pulled easy off an HB8 a couple weeks back turned out to be a dud; she had come in on a double date with her HB7 friend (who I busted on as the “ugly friend” in my opened, then a few minutes later she practically hurled me at the 8) and her “date” had gotten “I have a boyfriend” even though the guy with the 7 (much taller, better looking, great game, just a natural all around) was getting good results. Consequently, the dude was bitter and white knighted when I dropped some RP. Totally cock-blocked because I was working the chick he thought he was going to be on a date with.

    He came over trying to talk shit/apologize afterwards accusing me of cock blocking, and I told him “Dude you already told me yourself she told you she had a boyfriend, so I got no idea where you’re getting that I’m the cock block when she’s not saying the same to me and gave me her number in under 5 minutes. But I ain’t mad, bro. No hard feelings. Just go back over there with your buddy.”

    One of the bar tenders that knows me was watching the exchange, guy walks off, bar tender says “Dude, what a douche. Fuck that guy.” “Nah, don’t bother hating on him. He’s a loser that couldn’t pull on a double date that was arranged for him, and he’s taking it out on me by fucking up my game. I pity him.”

    Too bad he managed to make the number in to no response. Guess he got what he wanted. If he can’t have her, nobody can. AFCs got a crab mentality, man.

    As for the 95/5 thing, I honestly think it’s already the case here. The insanely high fattie count, unfavorable male:female ratio, and low number of singles makes the game in the area super vicious and makes it really hard to find a venue with ANY cute chicks. I can honestly say that I’ve fucked one HB7 and a couple HB6s in my 18 years here, and the 6s where from out of town that I met through online.

    Dudes are desperate, yo.

    Good news is, was at a bar on my birthday and started talking with a 26 year old dude that might make a good wing. I say MIGHT because he’s definitely BP, but just got out of a rough 5 year relationship end and didn’t immediately reject when I dropped RP ideas on him pointing out and predicting how things went in his relationship. Good looking enough guy that he’ll at the very least make decent chum for pulling the younger chicks in. You know, assuming I can find a place to meet them.

  68. Rollo, you mentioned the lower SMV woman, and how she mate guards differently than a higher SMV woman. Any suggestions for someone like me, in an LTM (marriage) with an LSMV woman? Amused Mastery has helped greatly, as well as Agree and Amplify. Sex is more frequent and better, and she’s working out now to lose the weight, but I’d like to see also a rise in her horniness along with the weight loss, and while the nagging and browbeating is a lot less frequent, it still happens too much.

    For anyone who has suggestions, please don’t say divorce. I know that’s an option.

    I’d like to try to save this marriage. Being a Beta chump for decades has caused it’s damage, but I’m reversing it. Would like to keep doing so, without wearing out in the process.

  69. ““and her friend is like “oh yeah” she has this guy here, that guy there… this one flying her in for the weekend” etc. and her phone was blowing up the whole night…. a late 30’s 6.5.”
    Yup. Like I say, any guy who doubts girls are COMMONLY coming out of college with N-counts of 50+, just hang onto a 6’s cell phone for a weekend and look at her social media”

    JEEEeeeesus…. So, I’m assuming there’s some handsome jacked guys out there with zero game, but crazy abundance?

  70. @KFG – Au contraire, it’s you who believes I don’t think enough – I think you are entranced with your own thoughts and analyses. I’ve never considered whether you don’t think enough, but now that you ask I would say I believe your think way too much. Fyi, huge error in your “reasoning” above – I called game a heuristic, and of course a “model” is implied by a heuristic(s) and course a model might be comprised of a set of heuristics, but as you said above, the map is not the terrain. You skipped it, twisted it and then blathered some obscurantist metaphor most here will never get and that I wouldn’t bother spending the mental energy to play along with. Cuz there is no payoff…

    But hey, that’s not the point, is it? The point is showing off in a breezy, inaccessible way to score points or whatevs, got it. But here’s the thing, KFG – I’ve been fortunate enough in my life to have worked with and been surrounded by some world class geniuses. You know, mathematicians. Perhaps those following along don’t know the hierarchy:

    Sorta smart guys become engineers.
    Very smart guys become physicists.
    World class intellects study math.

    They liked me because of my own intellectual quirks, freakish abstract reasoning and verbal skills, top .3%, and this gave me confidence so I never tried to even compete with those guys intellectually. This is something the truly brilliant get tired of dealing with. I actually saw and respected their genius without being threatened. Try getting a lecture from a topographical algebra post doc on Cartesian rigidity, I dare you. My analytic chops are nowhere near world class but they could explain math to me conceptually and then we’d go sell models to derivatives traders or risk geeks. I’d take hours to do math they could do in seconds, but they couldn’t communicate about them in adequate ways with mere mortals, I was like a bridge down the intellectual food chain for them. When you hang out with really brilliant people, it’s kind of eye opening.

    Guys who fuck about with philosophy do so cuz they want to seem smart but aren’t really so smart, like say Christopher Hitchens – a guy I loved, fyi, as at least he was fantastic at polemic and used it against powerful dingbats in delicious ways. I’ve often thought he was self-destructive with booze and cigarettes because he saw the limits of his own intelligence, a rare and maddening thing for some very smart people (not for me). Philosophers usually are so down the food chain of genius that mathematicians mostly even bother with them. I see most “philosophers” for what they are – short cut artists and bullshitters who lord their merely above average intellects above the average guy. I never saw a brilliant mathematician do this once.

  71. @Kent

    Not going to say you should divorce, and you definitely should never openly make the threat (or any other ultimatum, for that matter). However, keep the actual intention to do so if she doesn’t get her shit together running in the background. Really. You never want to feel cornered with no options or it’ll reflect itself in your behavior. The eject button always leaves you with an option that should cause her dread.

    Otherwise, it sounds like you’re doing the right things. Perhaps start flirting with attractive women in front of her. As the research here implies, if she perceives them as high enough value and you get a good enough reaction out of her, part of the mate guarding behavior will be to act more sexual towards you. Women lack the sheer physical intimidation men have, so their mate guarding must instinctively be more indirect than ours.

  72. @andy

    “girls are COMMONLY coming out of college with N-counts of 50+….

    JEEEeeeesus…. So, I’m assuming there’s some handsome jacked guys out there with zero game, but crazy abundance?”

    lax bros… LOL

  73. Sorta smart guys become engineers.
    Very smart guys become physicists.
    World class intellects study math.

    Hahah, ok.

  74. @kent

    As sun says:

    Perhaps start flirting with attractive women in front of her

    You need to get to the point where she sees that attractive women flirt with you

  75. Love the pic for this article! I use the same pic for the cover of my book. It was very prescient of you to post “Ovulation & Dread” this week as it happens my long awaited magnum opus:

    “Saving a Low Sex Marriage: A Man’s Guide To Dread, Seduction, and the Long Game”

    will be available as early as Friday (January 29)!!! See this link to access the book when it is ready (and also for some ultra cool podcasts comprising a Married Red Pill entry level class in the style of the MGTOW videos).

    https://bluepillprofessor.wordpress.com/2015/05/22/hello-world/

    Thanks Rollo- you always attack these issues from angles I never even considered.

    Your observations suggest that women are really more aware of their reproductive cycle than they let on. Can instinct explain WILLFUL BLINDNESS? These behaviors are so (seemingly) goal directed and obvious the claimed ignorance of them looks like naked deceit. Is THAT why so many women loathe manospherians and The Red Pill?

    They know already- and they don’t want anybody telling men because it takes away their advantage and puts women in a bad light. The publisher who reviewed my book is a woman and she had no objections to any of it- Dread, Seduction, Tingles, Hypergamy, AF/BB, Dominance, Submission, Rough Sex, Manhandling, Shit Tests, Holding Frame- she already knew ALL of it.

  76. @Bad Day – Let me save you a lot of energy. Most men are never going to ever really take the Red Pill – even if it’s presented to them in a gift wrapped package. I know, I’ve presented it in this way to willing, smart guys who respect me, have known me for 20 years or more, and think I’m worth listening to. Nope, they will not do so.

    I’m not trying to be “Cap’n save a MGTOW” any more than I’m trying to be “Cap’n save a ho”. I decimate MGTOW for the rare man who secretly knows his value and has encountered the Red Pill but is afraid to step up to it. He’s found MGTOW as the first stop on his Red Pill journey, but like me when I had a MGTOW channel, finds much he doubts in it but can’t find his way out of the morass. Maybe 1 in 1000 MGTOWs are thus. Many such men are here – they “select in”, they are not won over or sold. My guess is you are one of them and all I can say is you don’t have to protect the others. As you intimate, they love being denigrated by me, it gives them tingles, just like chicks crave. I’ve come to believe that MGTOW men are highly feminized and don’t even get it. They are beta chodes who woke up and decided that reality was to hard to deal with so they retreat back into fantasyland. It’s an adaptive reaction to the Blue Pill world and most have so invested their egos in their anti-masculine pose that for them to stop would mean ego collapse. A similar pose for a woman would be the feminist who degrades all guys so male rejection of her is already explained. In both cases, it’s merely an egoic inoculation, and as such I’m under no ethical or practical obligation to play ball with it.

    Another reason I go at it so hard is that MGTOW wear their surrender like a badge of honor. Let me tell you, the PUA beginner who approaches, or say that guy a thread or two back who went out to the club and just sat there, marinating in his fear all night, being pathetic and KNOWING IT, has more balls than every MGTOW on earth rolled into one. Take Softek, here on these boards. The fortitude and sheer guts it’s taken for him to face his own culpability in his failures in life and to take action in the face of his own identity screaming at him not to is the stuff of legends. I can only imagine what kind of man he will be in 5 years – no check that, I can’t even imagine it. Those are the men I want to be in this foxhole with, not a bunch of fucking whiny, pussy MGTOWs. There is nothing admirable about checking out of being a man. It disgusts me and flies in the face of every thing I value and respect.

    The Red Pill at 50 is not for the meek. It may yet kill me, but I won’t die on my knees, I’ll die fighting. I’ll leave claw marks on this bitch of a mindfucking world and go out railing and screeching, and doing everything I can to be the amazing man I’ve always suspected I am but didn’t dare to step up to being fully. Better late than never. And fuck every MGTOW who settles for less, they don’t get my respect cuz they didn’t earn it.

  77. @Scribbler: ” . . . it’s you who believes I don’t think enough . . .”

    Au contraire, I have generally thought you think too much.

    “I wouldn’t bother spending the mental energy to play along with. ”

    But perhaps I was wrong.

    “I’ve never considered whether you don’t think enough . . .”

    You have accused me of it. And of being incapable of it. For saying what you just said above.

    Go figure.

  78. @Sun Wukong
    “Too bad he managed to make the number in to no response. Guess he got what he wanted. If he can’t have her, nobody can. AFCs got a crab mentality, man.”

    Those guys are legitimately happy with this outcome. They don’t even care if they get the girl, they think they will EVENTUALLY when she realizes he’s better than all these jerks, their goal is just to make sure YOU don’t get her.

    …but I can’t blame them I do the same thing to other guys lol but just when they’re dicks to me and earn it. If they play nice I’ll help wing them even lol

    A young bait dude can be good to roll with because they usually have good energy still (like my mid-30s wing is tough to get out sometimes because he feels like he’s old and tired even though he’s in better shape than me lol but like he’s feeling the effects of gaming for the long-term ’cause he doesn’t have solid mindsets/reframes in and is embracing the negative “I’m so tired of the game, man” mentality which will bite him in the ass when he still hasn’t found a unicorn at 40 whereas I’ve wired my mindsets specifically so that I’ll still LOVE the game at 40 etc).

    And having bait will teach you a lot about energy. The girls will get drawn into him and at first you’ll get dwarfed, even excluded from the set while 3 girls all face him fighting over his attention and you stand there dick in hand being ignored completely. But over time you learn to step up and when you start stepping up and realizing that you can bowl over him by causing more emotional impact etc till you have nights where those 3 girls are all facing YOU fighting over YOUR attention with HIM standing there dick in hand being ignored completely confused, you realize what I’m always saying about looks lol

    My best wing was a 6’4″ super good-looking peacocked Natural with GOOD game (more conscious than most Naturals, we had a lot of strategic talks in Natural Lingo lol) who slayed poon left and right at unreal rates…but he was also the hardest wing I’ve ever had to learn to wing with because I had a lot of my own insecurities about looks etc back when I met him and sarging with him forced me to step up or go home dick in hand and that’s where I started pushing my comfort zones and really delving into the whole looks VS emotional impact thing because he had looks and game over me, but his game didn’t have the explosive emotional impact that PUA taught me. Like I say, in that Julien clip where he’s telling the girls how fat other girls are those girls are fully focused on him instead of his better looking buddies…in almost ALL his infield footage you’ll see better looking guys in the background that the girl’s “should” be jumping on according to TRP logic and social conditioning etc, but Julien understands how to make an emotional impact so the girls focus on him.

  79. @Andy
    “JEEEeeeesus…. So, I’m assuming there’s some handsome jacked guys out there with zero game, but crazy abundance?”

    That’s how it’s looking, but with caveats. Those guys are generally going to be found running online game, because their zero game doesn’t hold up in real life approaches, and the selection of girls in online game is less than awesome lol So generally those guys will be banging a shitload of 5-7s with the occasional 8 and rare 9 and a lot of those girls are damage cases (kids, drugs, cheating, crazy, etc) because online game is swarming with a bunch of shitty people who’ve realized they can get laid through it after the cool/beautiful people all had our run at it lol

    So like, ya they technically have abundance, but again it’s not a path I would send a guy down ideally. Learn game and you can cold approach the girls who are too hot/quality to be on OKCupid and you can build social circles that give you access to hotter girls (and THEN hit the gym if you want, but prioritize learning GAME over the gym first lol).

  80. ” I see most “philosophers” for what they are – short cut artists and bullshitters who lord their merely above average intellects above the average guy. ”

    Feynman once told a philosopher about a recent discovery in physics. The philosopher said:

    “Yes, well, philosophers have have known that for ages.”

    Feynman responded, “Perhaps some of you knew it, but we proved it.”

  81. @redlight @kent
    “You need to get to the point where she sees that attractive women flirt with you”

    Ya, the trick is that when SHE doesn’t see you as attractive, she can’t see other girls flirt with you. She will rationalize it away as you just imagining it etc. But when she’s attracted to you, she’ll project that onto other girls and assume other girls want you and she’ll see and blow up the flirting in her mind as a real threat.

    Tyler covers some of this dynamic (how her perception of you shifts) around 3:25 in this clip but the whole clip is good:

  82. well, if we’re posting videos…

    here’s where YaReally explained game to me and some buddies…using metaphors of course…lol…

    YaReally = Spock
    blue pill = Melkotian illusion = FI
    red pill/game = reality = masculinity

    bullets = shit tests…lol…

  83. @Ya – Jesus man, yeah, I get it. I always say a pickle ain’t never going to become a cucumber again. We’ll have to crash this fucker into a flaming shitheap disaster and completely destroy it. You are particularly cogent on the impact of the destruction of the family. The beta revolt will be led by a man-boy raised by a single mother, shit on in public school for his whole life.

    In a way, one can see radical Islam and Jihad resurging as a masculine spasmodic backlash against the FI. Same thing with revanchist fundo Christians, although they have not succeeded in suppressing the feminine, but in its darkest recesses, the same inchoate rage is aflame. Game knows game…

    Do you think apex alphas are signing up to be suicide bombers? Fuck they are overtly promised 70 virgins. Perhaps it’s already started. Perhaps this is why it’s women who are welcoming Islamists into the west, their cunts can tell real men from feminized posers driving around in gussied up pickup trucks or coiffed beards and designer flannel. They are abetted by the likes of Obama – and if you don’t think he’s an epic Blue Piller, just look at how he’s dominated by Michelle and fluffed and manipulated egoically by Valerie Jarrett, he’s a black Steve Shives. Trying to “earn it”. How often do you think Obama gets desire sex and submission from Michelle? Ever? And he’s fucking POTUS. Contrast this with the hot and cold running ass Henry Kissinger got, the man who said, “power is the ultimate aphrodisiac”.


  84. @YaReally Sentient

    ““DUDE YOU CAN’T SAY THAT TO GIRLS YOU SHOULDN’T SAY THAT MAN WOW SORRY ABOUT MY BUDDY THAT’S REALLY RUDE MAN””

    i just wanted to point out to you guys that this is a beta’s hindbrain doing the equivalent of [waving hand high in the air…] “OH!!…OH!!…LOOK AT ME!!!…LOOK AT MMEEEE!!!!” to the girl’s hindbrain…lol…it’s just an attempt to get her attention within the approved bounds of the FI…

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