Ovulation & Dread

ovulation_dread

I had an interesting study brought to my attention recently (ht/ Robert Burriss) and I thought I’d get back to a nuts and bolts post with something useful I found in it.

Women Selectively Guard Their Desirable Mates From Ovulating Women.

As you might expect, much of the findings in this study reinforce many Red Pill principles founded in evo-psych, but there are a few new angles to consider here. Before I start to riff on this study, bear in mind that the concept of female mate guarding behavior centers on what the researchers define as ‘desirable mates’ to women. This subjective assessment of desirability will play into all this analysis.

For women, forming close, cooperative relationships with other women at once poses important opportunities and possible threats-including mate retention. To maximize the benefits and minimize the costs of same-sex social relationships, we propose that women’s mate guarding is functionally flexible and that women are sensitive to both interpersonal and contextual cues indicating whether other women might be likely and effective mate poachers. Here, we assess one such cue: other women’s fertility. Because ovulating (i.e., high-fertility) women are both more attractive to men and also more attracted to (desirable) men, ovulating women may be perceived to pose heightened threats to other women’s romantic relationships. Across 4 experiments, partnered women were exposed to photographs of other women taken during either their ovulatory or nonovulatory menstrual-cycle phases, and consistently reported intentions to socially avoid ovulating (but not nonovulating) women-but only when their own partners were highly desirable. Exposure to ovulating women also increased women’s sexual desires for their (highly desirable) partners. These findings suggest that women can be sensitive to subtle cues of other women’s fertility and respond (e.g., via social exclusion, enhanced sexual attention to own mate) in ways that may facilitate their mate retention goals while not thwarting their affiliative goals.

Right from the start here we have two Red Pill foundations confirmed; the influence that perceptual SMV plays in women’s sense of passive Dread and the fundamental influence that menstruation dictates to sexual arousal and concurrent motivations for sex appeal during women’s ovulation phase.

I’ve previously gone into the dynamics that play out between men and women with regard to perceived SMV of a partner versus the other partner’s self-perception of their own SMV and how this determines secure vs. insecure attachment. This post was more of an outline of results of SMV imbalance rather that the motivations for the characteristics of those personal attachments. This study illustrates these underlying motivators very well.

Anyone who’s heard my Man in Demand talk on Hypergamy understands the (menstrual cycle) biological root for women’s personal and sociological behavior, and this study provides yet another confirmation of it. I’ve also written in the past about men’s propensity for mate guarding and the behavioral cues women, both subtly and not so subtly, display that prompts them to mate guarding. However, I’ve yet to explore women’s mate guarding behaviors.

I’m bringing up the SMV ratios and Mate Guarding posts here because it’s important to bear in mind the subjectivity that perceived SMV plays in regard to motivating mate guarding. Depending on that balance (or imbalance) one partner will be more motivated to mate guard than the other. Which of course then brings us back to the Cardinal Rule of Relationships. Mate guarding impulse is contextual to the comparative value of both individuals and the value of others in their social environment (potential sexual competitors).

Thus, it is a significant challenge for women when other women attempt to poach their partners. For instance, over 50% of women admit to attempting to poach another woman’s partner, and over 80% of men admit to having been the object of another woman’s poaching—with about half of men admitting to “going along” with the poaching attempt (e.g., Schmitt et al., 2004; Schmitt & Buss, 2001). Women have good reason, then, to mate guard.

I’m going to encourage readers to take the time to, at the very least, read the introduction, premise and results of this comprehensive study. Naturally there will be incredulous women who will insist that men tend to overestimate the displayed sexual interests of women towards them. This is a common social convention that serves a very specific purpose for women; plausible deniability.

If the common group-think is that men are egotistical, think they’re “all that” and stupidly believe they’re seeing sexual cues from women because “that’s just how men are”, then we have a pre-established condition in which women can believably deny interest. Thus, should a man not find a woman attractive, or opt for another, this then serves as a rejection buffer as well as a precondition for her own rejection of a man should he make an approach and not be found attractive.

The Schmitt & Buss studies account for this, but even if they didn’t there would still need to be a functional reason for women’s mate guarding behavior. That reason puts the lie to the social convention of women presuming men aren’t as perceptive of their sexual cues as they’d like to believe.

[…] whereas men have at times physically isolated and sequestered their female

partners to restrict other men’s access to them (e.g., in harems), women may analogously socially isolate their partners from potential poachers—keeping them apart so as to preclude potentially costly competition for their romantic partners.

The usefulness of this strategy depends on women being able to identify those who might be likely and effective mate poachers, and then excluding them (but not others) from their social circles. If a woman indiscriminately distances herself and her partner from potential poachers (i.e., all other women), she is assured of his fidelity but at the cost of eliminating her access to the numerous benefits of female–female friendships.

Spoiler alert: The study confirms that women will covertly exclude themselves and their lover’s company from women who A.) outclass them in comparative SMV (hotter women than they perceive themselves to be) and B.) happen to be in the proliferative phase of ovulation.

This indicates that not only are women subconsciously (if not consciously) aware of intrasexual rivals ovulatory states – as evidenced by dress, ornamentation, vocal intonation, scent, sexual proceptivity, etc. – but they are aware enough to orchestrate covert methods to protect their sexual investments in a ‘high value’ male while ensuring future intrasexual friendships.

That may seem like an overly scientific way of saying women watch out for other women slutting it up, but the subcommunications of ovulation are so subtle that women’s subconscious, peripheral awareness of those cues evolved for a sensitivity that goes beyond the obvious slut. That’s how important retaining a better-than-self SMV optimal mating choice is to women in an evolutionary scope. That sensitivity is part of women’s psychological firmware.

[…]In addition, if a woman were to consistently and indiscriminately exclude other women from her own and, by extension, her partner’s social circle, she might gain a reputation for being non-communal and non-nurturing, and thus, for being an undesirable friend. This might not only thwart her ability to form future friendships with other women, but might also lead her partner to perceive her as highly difficult, uncooperative, controlling, and non-trusting.

Thus, on one hand, the costs of indiscriminately avoiding other women are high because women reap important benefits from making new same-sex friends, On the other hand, women can and do mate poach with frequency, and those women deeply embedded in one’s social circle may have increased access, motivation, and ability to poach successfully.

There’s a few things to unpack here before we can make this information Red Pill / Game applicable. The most important metric that female mate guarding indicates is her genuine assessment of a man’s SMV and how valuable his participation and investment in their LTR (or even STR sexual value) is to her.

I’ve seen this mate guarding play out in my own relationships before, both as a Red Pill husband who happens to work with beautiful women in the liquor industry and prior to my Red Pill awareness of it in my libertine 20s. Back then it was easy to pass off as ‘bitches be crazy’ when a girlfriend or a short term sex partner “just got jealous”. But in hindsight the timing of those fits of jealousy seemed a bit to regular.

I’m going to suggest that developing an awareness of a woman’s bouts of jealousy or her subtle timing in wanting to spend time alone with you, or her being more sexually proceptive (she wants to fuck more) with you at times you may think odd. These are Alpha or Beta TellsA woman’s preoccupation with guarding you from other women is a prime indicator of your SMV worth to her. It stands to reason that only ‘desirable’ men deserve the effort of her mate guarding.

This is an important Red Pill sensitivity to have as it also allows you to determine a woman’s unspoken understanding of where she and you stand in relative SMV comparison. As I was saying in the introduction here, that ‘desirability’, that SMV ratio, that Alpha impression that makes you worth mate guarding is subjective to what a woman’s self-perceived SMV is in respect to your own. When we interact with women in the long term it’s very easy for men to lose sight of this balance and think that their frumpy wife is the best they can do. There is a definitive psychological game that women of low SMV will play with men they know are of higher value – they will continually devalue that man as a form of mate guarding.

That devaluation may take the form of browbeating, nagging or accusing him of being attracted to other women in an effort to get her higher value LTR man to self-limit his being poached by endlessly qualifying himself to his low SMV wife/girlfriend. It’s far easier, and far lower an investment of resources if a low SMV woman can convince her higher SMV man to mate guard himself.

Just as an aside here, there may be a few readers who’ll think women will rationally consider that their long term provisioning is virtually assured in a feminine-primary social order. Alimony, child support or pro-female government will assure her and her offspring a baseline of security, so why mate guard any man?

The answer of course is that women’s psychological firm ware didn’t evolve to acknowledge these considerations. Once again T-Rex doesn’t want to be fed, he wants to hunt. So even with the logical consideration that provisioning is assured women’s limbic (particularly on an Alpha Fucks short term breeding assurance) still wants those environmental and behavioral cues that indicate they have that security.

Passive Dread

So with all of this to digest how do we put this knowledge of women’s limbic desire for ensuring a mate’s exclusive sex and provisioning to use for us?

The obvious answer is in the title of this post – developing that awareness of your SMV worth to a woman is a good starting point from which you can subtly employ a passive form of Dread.

I’ve gotten a lot of grief for just my acknowledging Dread, much less using it beneficially for both a man and whatever woman he chooses (long or short term). It’s always about how horribly manipulative it is, or it’s just an unsustainable game of brinksmanship between a couple that destroys trust. But what these (usually female) critics never recognize is that Dread is already an integral part of every relationship by order of degree.

The fact that both male and female mate guarding behaviors are evidential facts of both sex’s hindbrain function should be proof enough that Dread, the concern of loss of investment, and the subconscious, comparative evaluation of SMV is something that’s always an operative. It’s inherent to our conditions as evolved human beings.

My advice in this instance is for men to become sensitive to the indicators of that ovulatory mate guarding dread and use that insecurity to promote a better, genuine desire in that woman. Suggesting this will seem counterintuitive to a Blue Pill mindset. The conditioned response will be to allay that woman’s fears (the ones she’s subconsciously aware of but will hate you for making her acknowledge) and provide her with comfort and familiarity.

But comfort and familiarity are anti-seductive and kill the genuine desire, the genuine need to fuck you in order to keep you and show her appreciation for your higher SMV. Why does a woman compete for what she is constantly comfortably assured she already has?

The trick to employing soft or passive dread is making yourself sensitive to the opportunities to use it and then gently provoke it in as covert and indirect a way as possible. One of the better ideas the early PUAs had was mastering the art of the Neg, or the backhanded compliment. The idea was to casually knock a woman’s self-image down to a manageable degree in order to get her to qualify herself the the PUA. Passive dread operates on a similar principle.

You need to see the opportunities for its use, and women’s propensity for mate guarding men they find ‘desirable’ is a reasonably predictable opportunity. See those chances for other women’s casual flirtations with you, look for those unsolicited opportunities for easy social proof, and don’t dissuade your woman’s initial mate guarding response. Casually push back on the mate guarding impulse, don’t jump to the reassurances of your undying love and interest.

See that opportunity for what it is – a chance to restate whose Frame she’s chosen to be a part of. She wants to merit your value. Take that effort away from her and you become valueless to her.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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kfg
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We’re over 900!!!!!

having a bad day
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@kfg

10 pages!!!…lol…

“Temperance is better for you, but if you can’t be temperate, it’s better to abstain.’

i agree with this…

i guess i was looking for some insight on the ‘burden of performance’ stuff…bc it really doesn’t make sense to me, but i can see ‘something’ there… that i’m just not getting…lol…

and i didn’t know that about the coffee shops but it makes complete sense…

good luck!

kfg
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Perhaps you are looking for more subtlety than is actually there. The root statement of the burden of performance is simply: If you don’t work, you die.

SJF
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@Habd Hey, we agree. I have no issues with me having a burden of performance. And I have no qualms about being a beta provider in an Alpha frame. But that is because I don’t have the fear of burden of performance. I make that hurdle low. (But then again I have “means” so that makes it easier). Shit, building your own self to be a better beta is a foundation for building a better alpha. 89% on a Pareto distribution is better than 20%. If a FI shames in the forest and no one hears it…..is it really shaming?… Read more »

Sentient
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@newly… How would I go about it… Does your wife know the girl…? I’d just say something casual, like when reading the paper on the couch… “hey remember so and so…. got a strange request from her the other day… yeah so she wants to have a kid by me… yeah wants a sperm donation, she’s getting old and I set the high bar… LOL Oh well… good problems to have!” and then segue into something benign… “what’s the mileage in your car, Might need to take for an oil change this week” and turn the page… Loading...

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@Sentient, that’s a good one, but I can see wife blowing that shit up all over FaceFuckBook and having all kinds of people come out of the woodwork and into my business. I’ll have to think about this carefully. Wife knows I want more kids too but is too old, so there’s that to consider too. I have to consider what my dick told me when I heard this proposal too. lol.

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@kfg

“Perhaps you are looking for more subtlety than is actually there. ”

that wouldn’t be the first time that’s happened…lol

“The root statement of the burden of performance is simply: If you don’t work, you die.”

thanks…sort of old school ‘don’t work, don’t eat…’ which i DO understand…THANKS DAD!…lol…

good luck!

Sentient
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@SJF “If I wanted higher stress and lower returns I would get a low quality wife or become a single man PUA (good pussy no doubt, but certainly with stress and the highest burden of performance possible for a man that needs to concentrate on five other dimensions of their life (profession, children, home and community and extracurricular high level hobbies and adventure pursuits). “ This is more FI SJF… there is no correlation between more stress and pussy (of any stripe), maybe inverse correlation… LOL And all the dimensions you list can create virtuous cycle of demonstrable alpha in… Read more »

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@newly… well i’d find it hilarious if my wife posted that on FB or something… she’d be boasting right? These are the kinds of double binds I do not miss… for many, many years I would do something like this, like deny that some other woman found me attractive for fear of hurting my wife’s feelings and then for it to come out in some other way and she be furious that it was kept a secret… No more… it’s not good game. She needs the “pain”… cats not being dogs and all. Plus you are just living an authentic… Read more »

Dutchman
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“yup… bitches be up on my spermzzz…. deal with it.”

I legit loled at that.

newlyaloof
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@Sentient, thing is, what if I actually wanted to go through with it? May want to keep that on the divorce court down-low. We’ll see, but your point of ZFG is well noted.

Dutchman
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@newly, go through with fathering the chick’s kid? Yikes lol

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This is more FI SJF… there is no correlation between more stress and pussy (of any stripe), maybe inverse correlation… LOL And all the dimensions you list can create virtuous cycle of demonstrable alpha in the Dynamic, Passionate and Authentic vein… Really the only limit is in understanding FI and RP completely, understanding game dynamics well enough to execute on them and maintaining frame. well that and target acquisition… LOL. Hey we agree… LOL I have no problem with the fact that the FI is there. Or in the fact that understanding FI and RP completely is the goal, and… Read more »

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HABD Never looked into this “burden of performance” thing… I’m not sure I agree with it as construed as you need to “work” to attract women. But if I run it through the Alpha Triad it basically adds up… so this here – “A lot of DHV is unintentional. In fact the best most genuine forms of DHV are exhibited when a Man doesn’t realize he’s actually performing in a way that demonstrate his higher value. This can be as simple as walking int a room in the right context or environment. Even humility can be DHV in the proper… Read more »

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@SJF

““If I wanted higher stress and lower returns I would get a low quality wife or become a single man PUA (good pussy no doubt, but certainly with stress and the highest burden of performance possible for a man that needs to concentrate…”

Well id on’t agree with your statement here… so I don’t think we are agreeing. Unless you aren’t meaning to say that it is higher stress and lower return to have a lower quality wife or be single?

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@ Sentient

It just me, though. It works for me. I’m not telling others what they should shoot for. I’m currently at the lowest stress level I have been in the last 35 years. (And not that the previous stress was a problem.)

(You could say I’m just saying that shit just to qualify myself to the commenters.)

kfg
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“… I’m not sure I agree with it as construed as you need to “work” to attract women.”

Not to attract women, to live. That’s why you can’t escape it.

KFG Maxim Number Something or Other:

A man can best evaluate the looks of a woman while she is sleeping. A woman can best evaluate the looks of a man while he is chopping wood.

He isn’t necessarily chopping wood to attract a woman, he’s chopping wood so he doesn’t freeze to death in the winter.

And women find that attractive. At root because she doesn’t want to freeze to death in the winter either.

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@SJF “@Habd Hey, we agree.” good… bc i really do need to get some work done…lol but here’s me being spergy again…lol… “Shit, building your own self to be a better beta is a foundation for building a better alpha. 89% on a Pareto distribution is better than 20%. ” i know what you are trying to say, but it’s NOT better if you are still in that 89% that’s not getting sexed up (bc they have no game/don’t even understand the problem they face = normal blue pill men – married or not)…and that’s actually WHY i spend so… Read more »

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“i think the biggest problem i’m having with this, is that i’m not separating the benefit to the FI (bc there would be…) from the benefit to me”

I think my issue is similar. Where does the burden of performance end, and catering to the FI begin? I guess it’s just one of those things that every man has to decide for himself. The trick is when you hide behind your “burden of performance” as an excuse to stay within your comfort zone.

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” . . . i’ve internalized that any benefit to the FI (or ‘work’ on behalf of a girl) is a detriment to me/men in general…” The MGTOW Problem. It can’t be resolved, so you might as well stop trying. Like any engineering problem, what you can do is search for the optimization that meets your needs of the moment and wing it from there. And sooner or later the Space Invaders(tm) are going to get you, so you might as well stop trying to avoid that as well. You can’t win, only put off losing. So it really is… Read more »

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@having a bad day low alpha low beta = omega high alpha low beta = playah…lol low alpha high beta = beta provider/orbiter high alpha high beta = alpha provider (this is actually the goal for a great marriage btw…lol) but to get ‘laid like tile’ all you really need is high alpha (= high sexual repro fitness) You are totally mis-representing low alpha/high beta. It is greater beta, lesser alpha. He is alpha but he is greater beta. And you are totally misrepresenting beta as blue pill. It is not. Blue pill is not understanding red pill. Not being… Read more »

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@Andy “The trick is when you hide behind your “burden of performance” as an excuse to stay within your comfort zone.” No. The trick is when your burden of performance is a low hurdle and you: -Stop Hoping for a Completion of Anything in Life -Live With an Open Heart Even If It Hurts -Live As If Your Father Were Dead -Know Your Real Edge and Don’t Fake it -Always Hold To Your Deepest Realization -Never Change Your Mind Just to Please a Woman -Your Purpose Must Come Before Your Relationship -Lean Just Beyond Your Edge -Do It for Love… Read more »

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The burden of performance ends when you are no longer able to perform. Or you die. Whichever comes first, your mileage may vary. Okay, forget about the FI in regards to your burden. Not a factor, unless you choose to perform by someone else’s metrics. A man has to ” do something ” to be considered a ” man “. This is not according to the FI unless you happen to look to it for direction. *hint* Mistake to do so. Besides having to work to earn a living and keep yourself in reasonable shape, a man has to develop… Read more »

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Blaximus, you son of a bitch.

Some of your best masculine red pill shit, ever. I love you man.

Thanks for that. I certainly resonate with that. And you beat the blue pill stuffing out of the stupidity that there is beta in the masculine burden of performance. Or in provider-ship.

That there is Alpha Oak All the Way Down!

Anonymous Reader
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Blax
Without burden or stressors, a man is basically a chick with a dick. We’d have to fill our lives with gossip and emotional turmoil and social networking in order to have something to do. We’d have to invent bullshit problems not to be solved, but to be talked about ad naseum.

So we’d turn into hipster SJW’s?

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Lol, thanks SJF. The feelings mutual.

Blaximus
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Anonymous –

http://m.memegen.com/dxgtnh.jpg

He he heee, yeah, basically.

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Sigh. I’m going to do something that is totally unconventional. In order to knock some order into this whole thread. My apologies to BluePillProfessor if he minds that I quote a whole fucking chapter of his book in order for you guys to shut the fuck up about it being anything other that the best red pill distillation ever for married man game. First, go and purchase this book. BluePillProfessor did a great job and spent endless amount of time on it. And it is great. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BGZO1WK/ref=rdr_kindle_ext_tmb Second, see if this whole chapter excerpt resonates with red pill. Not blue… Read more »

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“Okay, forget about the FI in regards to your burden. Not a factor, unless you choose to perform by someone else’s metrics. A man has to ” do something ” to be considered a ” man “. This is not according to the FI unless you happen to look to it for direction. *hint* Mistake to do so.” @Blax Yeah, this all sounds real simple. The problem is that you’re not really taking into account how deep societal programming runs. It affects what we perceive as a “want” or a “need” despite the fact that it may not be necessary… Read more »

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@Blaximus and Andy Andy said: “I think my issue is similar. Where does the burden of performance end, and catering to the FI begin? I guess it’s just one of those things that every man has to decide for himself. The trick is when you hide behind your “burden of performance” as an excuse to stay within your comfort zone.” “Deciding if I’m actually doing something for myself, or if I’m doing it because that’s what I’m “supposed” to do. When I say FI, I mean societal programming. Maybe you take it to mean something else.” I read a lot… Read more »

Andy
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I may be vain, but I’m not a Narcissist.

SJF
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Ok, Sorry then.

vain

adjective
1. having or showing an excessively high opinion of one’s appearance, abilities, or worth.
“their flattery made him vain”
synonyms: conceited, narcissistic, self-loving, in love with oneself, self-admiring, self-regarding, self-obsessed, egocentric, egotistic, egotistical; More

Andy
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Label me whatever you want.

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Well my intent is not to label you for nefarious purposes. My intent is to help with self awareness and self improvement. To identify tactics on how to improve upon your strengths and minimize your weaknesses. If indeed vanity is part of your character set own it and use it for your advantage. Employ empathy in your social interactions. You want to look good to others so do good in your social interactions. Always be adding value. Stop trying to stand out, get attention and be so darn special. It’s okay to be ordinary. Act ordinary and do things that… Read more »

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One of the game changers for me was connecting with other guys about five years ago. Hanging out with guys exclusively at times, just talking over and resonating with like-minded guys, spending time away from my wife or women. Hell even spending time with a masculine bitchy woman neighbor at my farm property in a totally platonic way was good. But she died suddenly recently, and that sucked. She was a good friend in a guy type of way (Her SMV was a WNB3 out of 10). (Not much of Nice Guy syndrome in the book has much to do… Read more »

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http://www.amazon.com/No-More-Mr-Nice-Guy/dp/0762415339/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8 “Getting Strong Helps Nice Guys Reclaim Their Masculinity Masculinity denotes strength and power. Because of their conditioning, Nice Guys tend to fear these traits. As a result, they often become emotionally and physically soft. Some even take pride in this softness. I’ve met many Nice Guys who work out or practice martial arts, but who are still afraid of their strength. Embracing one’s masculinity mean’s embracing one’s body, power, and spaciousness. In order to do this, recovering Nice Guys have to stop putting junk into their bodies and train them to respond to the physical demands of being male.… Read more »

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Seek out a mentor http://therationalmale.com/2016/01/18/a-teachable-moment/comment-page-3/#comment-136711 Seeking Out Healthy Role Models Helps Nice Guys Reclaim Their Masculinity I encourage recovering Nice Guys to visualize what they think a healthy male would look like and think of healthy masculine traits they would like to develop. With that picture in mind, they can go out and look for men who have these kinds of qualities. These men may be in their church, their company, their softball team, even characters on TV or the movies. By observing how these men live their lives and interact with the world, the Nice Guy can begin assimilating… Read more »

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@Dutchman How bout this from the Glover book. It seems this is working for you lately: “Setting Boundaries Helps Nice Guys Get The Love They Want The subject of boundaries was presented in Chapter Five. Nowhere is the issue of boundary setting more important for Nice Guys than in their most intimate relationships. By setting healthy boundaries with their partners, Nice Guys create situations in which both they and their partner can feel safe to be vulnerable and experience true intimacy. I show Nice Guys, often with their partners watching, how to step up to their line and set boundaries.… Read more »

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Last several comments were awfully good stuff. I need those reminders. As I read Blax’s post I was thinking yeah, it’s all about your mental point of origin. Sure enough, he nailed it as he closed his post. +1 SJF, thanks for more copy pasta goodness. Always appreciate your nudges that help keep complacency at bay. KFG wrote: “He isn’t necessarily chopping wood to attract a woman, he’s chopping wood so he doesn’t freeze to death in the winter.” Indeed, my stacks of ash have made for a toasty hearth this week. Coincidentally, my gf texted me a photo today… Read more »

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“Andy, perhaps take a step back and not overthink this burden thing. When I embrace the burden I feel energized and firing on all cylinders.” @Roused Yeah, I embrace my masculinity and burden and everything. I guess you’d call me a “handy” guy. I live in an old house, so I pretty much always have some sort of project going on. I do all the car work and such. Also, my beard would make Dan Bilzerian poop his pants. My issue is just like the whole separating my id from my ego. Am I doing X because I truly want… Read more »

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@SJF I think you’ve taken a single aspect of Andy’s circumstance and pigeonholed him in it. When he was first digesting RP stuff he was frustrated that his circumstance (wife with kids) limited his sexual options. That’s not something that frustrates you in your circumstance so you’ve interpreted that as ‘he’s just a kid who’d rather bang chicks than accept his responsibilities as a man.’ I don’t think that’s fair; I think it’s great that you’re satisfied by your wife, and I could see myself having a similar mindset if I were married, but I can also empathize with his… Read more »

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@Andy “@Blax Yeah, this all sounds real simple. The problem is that you’re not really taking into account how deep societal programming runs. It affects what we perceive as a “want” or a “need” despite the fact that it may not be necessary at all. Subconsciously looking to the FI for direction. THAT is my problem. Not the burden itself. Deciding if I’m actually doing something for myself, or if I’m doing it because that’s what I’m “supposed” to do. When I say FI, I mean societal programming. Maybe you take it to mean something else.” FI = societal programming…it’s… Read more »

having a bad day
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having a bad day
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i guess i missed a /blockquote in there somewhere…lol…oh, look! velcro!…now, i can tie my shoes…lol…

Andy
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Andy
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@Forge, “I think you’ve taken a single aspect of Andy’s circumstance and pigeonholed him in it.” Ah, that makes sense. Is your IQ like 2 billion or something? @HABD ” but really, how many red pillers ARE there ” Right. I am doing an okay job of making friends… But god. I practically have to call their wives and ask if they can hang out. “Hey can Jimmy come out to play?” So, yeah. I know I need to get out and find some single friends. “that shits like a root virus…lol…” Exactly… that’s why I have a hard time… Read more »

having a bad day
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having a bad day
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@Andy “So I guess stepping outside your comfort zone to learn and accomplish new things is a true desire?” it can be, and it’s pretty cool when it is (which is why it’s good when you adopt that attitude), but mostly it’s where personal growth takes place, so you just need to go there regardless…that’s why buffers are so insidious…bc they create comfort…which is…comfortable…lol… i used to know this really cute girl (total hippie freespirit type…one of the coolest/realest people i ever met…(back when i was a clueless omega sperg…and couldn’t see the IOIs…lol)) and every time she got ‘comfortable’… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
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Andy Like, the first time I fix the car, it feels fucking good. I don’t really get much credit for it, but it still feels good. The next time I fix the car it feels a little less good and a little more like work… So I guess stepping outside your comfort zone to learn and accomplish new things is a true desire? The first time you unstop the toilet the kids plugged is an accomplishment. The next few times, not so much. Then it’s just a chore, part of maintaining the house, and also a teaching moment for the… Read more »

SJF
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Let me be clear on my motivations and intentions. See this place is a safe place for men to discuss (through intellectual debate) things that they can’t in real life. That would be because some of you guys can’t find any red pill men out there. So we are here to talk about red pill awareness and game. Even though the last half of the discussion should be and is about how to score easy pussy, the first half of the discussion is about masculine self improvement. I’m not here to dis or to sucker punch Andy or anyone else.… Read more »

SJF
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SJF
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HABD you are infectious. I forgot to close the blockquote after

“Morpheus: No, Neo. I’m trying to tell you that when you’re ready, you won’t have to</blockquote

To use the strike through format set it up like this but use the instead of the brackets like this

[del] strike through text[/del]

to look like this: strike through text

SJF
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SJF
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…use the greater than and less than sign instead of the brackets.

SJF
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Here is some background material taken from “The Way of Men” in regards to us men “fighting” like in a bar fight, or in a pre-agricultural game in online blog intellectual debate: As prosperity and security increase, and the need for men to hunt, struggle and fight decreases, the male desire to engage in gang activity can be controlled and channeled though simulation, vicariousness, and intellectualization. A minority of men need extremely frequent opportunities for vital, immediate equivalents to hunting and war as they can get to keep them productive, and to keep them from self-destructing. Charles Darwin thought that… Read more »

SJF
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In regards to this not having decent guy friends in real life. You know red pill masculine ones. Keep searching, but vet them and next them if they don’t live up. One thing I did was convert some online friends in a different venue. A sportsman’s forum where there was at least the Private Messaging feature on a forum, rather than a blog which doesn’t have this feature. I met up in real life with sportsmen that had the same narrow and broad interests and that worked out well. These guys were already vetted somewhat by their previous posts and… Read more »

Andy
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Andy
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“if opening is your current sticking point, here’s a tip = open EVERYBODY you meet” Yeah, good advice. Why didn’t I think of that? I’m going to a thing tomorrow. I’ll try that. “and you can game the wife, too” My learning curve has kind of leveled off here. I don’t think I’m going to learn much more from this one. Similarly, I have this weird thing where if I get to a certain level of familiarity with someone then the “fun, outgoing, gregarious” switch goes off. Also, if there’s say… 3 people I’m familiar with and 2 people I’m… Read more »

Andy
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Andy
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“and don’t get me started as to why you don’t want to do this or you are really going to want to take your ball and go home.”

Lay it on me sensei. I don’t want anyone walking on egg shells around me.

SJF
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SJF
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Father issues. You don’t want to be like your father. I can elaborate as needed.

SJF
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I’m not saying this applies to you. Just food for thought. Chapter 10 of Deida’s “The Way of the Superior Man” Enjoy Your Friends’ Criticism A man’s capacity to receive another man’s direct criticism is a measure of his capacity to receive masculine energy. If he doesn’t have a good relationship to masculine energy (e.g., his father), then he will act like a woman and be hurt or defensive rather than make use of other men’s criticism. About once a week, you should sit down with your closest men friends and discuss what you are doing in your life and… Read more »

Andy
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Andy
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Oh god. This sounds like it’s going to get deep. Ok so I have father issues so that means what?

Andy
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Andy
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Hmm chapter 3 doesn’t apply. I’m fairly certain I’ve exceeded his expectations.

SJF
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SJF
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And here, I am not saying you are a Nice Guy, or that you are ineffective. Nor I am I saying there is anything wrong with your father. It is just that certain things have been run by the FI that don’t benefit sons. I know this doesn’t apply directly. But there is probably some indirect impact on all males that applies to not having stand up masculine fathers, dominating mothers and the lack of agency in sons of some sort. Forget whatever he is saying about “nice guys” and translate this into anything you are lacking agency in. Up… Read more »

SJF
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Not saying that Chapter 3 applies. But maybe your father wasn’t as strong as you wanted him to be in retrospect. What about your mother’s influence? Again, I’m not saying you are a “nice guy” without testicles, but the FI has been an issue for you. It is the Matrix and it is feminine feminist. And strong male guy friends that you can hang out with, bond with and have them resonate with you on your terms are necessary to advance your mission and help define your mission. Contrary to the prevailing sentiments of the last few decades, it is… Read more »

SJF
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Heh, I reached the end of the Robert Glover book. Not much of the “nice guy” type resonated with me because I never really acted or behaved as a nice guy (who would have thought). But I do resonate with his ending suggestions and have employed most of these suggestions he suggests as a breaking free excercise at the end of the book. I did most of these things by default in my life. Sure it is common sense in a red pill/game world, but it doesn’t hurt to review. 1 If it frightens you, do it. 2 Don’t settle.… Read more »

Andy
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Andy
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Sounds like a good book, but I worked through that shit a long time ago.

SJF
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SJF
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“Sounds like a good book, but I worked through that shit a long time ago.”

Me too. And more.

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[…] Ovulation & Dread […]

Elli Sanders
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Well damn that certainly explains a lot of shit I see inside my clubs!

Roberto Alba
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Another masterful post. I can attest to this myself. I work out often and am in great physicial shape. I had a cute girlfriend back in the day who was cute, but not crazy hot. She was jealous as hell and it was partly because I gave her reason to feel that way – I would flirt lightly with her friends and with women in front of her. And she was frequently immersed in this feeling you speak of. With all the manipulation they employ… heck, I’m fine with us having some of our own tools as well. It’s only… Read more »

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