Ovulation & Dread

ovulation_dread

I had an interesting study brought to my attention recently (ht/ Robert Burriss) and I thought I’d get back to a nuts and bolts post with something useful I found in it.

Women Selectively Guard Their Desirable Mates From Ovulating Women.

As you might expect, much of the findings in this study reinforce many Red Pill principles founded in evo-psych, but there are a few new angles to consider here. Before I start to riff on this study, bear in mind that the concept of female mate guarding behavior centers on what the researchers define as ‘desirable mates’ to women. This subjective assessment of desirability will play into all this analysis.

For women, forming close, cooperative relationships with other women at once poses important opportunities and possible threats-including mate retention. To maximize the benefits and minimize the costs of same-sex social relationships, we propose that women’s mate guarding is functionally flexible and that women are sensitive to both interpersonal and contextual cues indicating whether other women might be likely and effective mate poachers. Here, we assess one such cue: other women’s fertility. Because ovulating (i.e., high-fertility) women are both more attractive to men and also more attracted to (desirable) men, ovulating women may be perceived to pose heightened threats to other women’s romantic relationships. Across 4 experiments, partnered women were exposed to photographs of other women taken during either their ovulatory or nonovulatory menstrual-cycle phases, and consistently reported intentions to socially avoid ovulating (but not nonovulating) women-but only when their own partners were highly desirable. Exposure to ovulating women also increased women’s sexual desires for their (highly desirable) partners. These findings suggest that women can be sensitive to subtle cues of other women’s fertility and respond (e.g., via social exclusion, enhanced sexual attention to own mate) in ways that may facilitate their mate retention goals while not thwarting their affiliative goals.

Right from the start here we have two Red Pill foundations confirmed; the influence that perceptual SMV plays in women’s sense of passive Dread and the fundamental influence that menstruation dictates to sexual arousal and concurrent motivations for sex appeal during women’s ovulation phase.

I’ve previously gone into the dynamics that play out between men and women with regard to perceived SMV of a partner versus the other partner’s self-perception of their own SMV and how this determines secure vs. insecure attachment. This post was more of an outline of results of SMV imbalance rather that the motivations for the characteristics of those personal attachments. This study illustrates these underlying motivators very well.

Anyone who’s heard my Man in Demand talk on Hypergamy understands the (menstrual cycle) biological root for women’s personal and sociological behavior, and this study provides yet another confirmation of it. I’ve also written in the past about men’s propensity for mate guarding and the behavioral cues women, both subtly and not so subtly, display that prompts them to mate guarding. However, I’ve yet to explore women’s mate guarding behaviors.

I’m bringing up the SMV ratios and Mate Guarding posts here because it’s important to bear in mind the subjectivity that perceived SMV plays in regard to motivating mate guarding. Depending on that balance (or imbalance) one partner will be more motivated to mate guard than the other. Which of course then brings us back to the Cardinal Rule of Relationships. Mate guarding impulse is contextual to the comparative value of both individuals and the value of others in their social environment (potential sexual competitors).

Thus, it is a significant challenge for women when other women attempt to poach their partners. For instance, over 50% of women admit to attempting to poach another woman’s partner, and over 80% of men admit to having been the object of another woman’s poaching—with about half of men admitting to “going along” with the poaching attempt (e.g., Schmitt et al., 2004; Schmitt & Buss, 2001). Women have good reason, then, to mate guard.

I’m going to encourage readers to take the time to, at the very least, read the introduction, premise and results of this comprehensive study. Naturally there will be incredulous women who will insist that men tend to overestimate the displayed sexual interests of women towards them. This is a common social convention that serves a very specific purpose for women; plausible deniability.

If the common group-think is that men are egotistical, think they’re “all that” and stupidly believe they’re seeing sexual cues from women because “that’s just how men are”, then we have a pre-established condition in which women can believably deny interest. Thus, should a man not find a woman attractive, or opt for another, this then serves as a rejection buffer as well as a precondition for her own rejection of a man should he make an approach and not be found attractive.

The Schmitt & Buss studies account for this, but even if they didn’t there would still need to be a functional reason for women’s mate guarding behavior. That reason puts the lie to the social convention of women presuming men aren’t as perceptive of their sexual cues as they’d like to believe.

[…] whereas men have at times physically isolated and sequestered their female

partners to restrict other men’s access to them (e.g., in harems), women may analogously socially isolate their partners from potential poachers—keeping them apart so as to preclude potentially costly competition for their romantic partners.

The usefulness of this strategy depends on women being able to identify those who might be likely and effective mate poachers, and then excluding them (but not others) from their social circles. If a woman indiscriminately distances herself and her partner from potential poachers (i.e., all other women), she is assured of his fidelity but at the cost of eliminating her access to the numerous benefits of female–female friendships.

Spoiler alert: The study confirms that women will covertly exclude themselves and their lover’s company from women who A.) outclass them in comparative SMV (hotter women than they perceive themselves to be) and B.) happen to be in the proliferative phase of ovulation.

This indicates that not only are women subconsciously (if not consciously) aware of intrasexual rivals ovulatory states – as evidenced by dress, ornamentation, vocal intonation, scent, sexual proceptivity, etc. – but they are aware enough to orchestrate covert methods to protect their sexual investments in a ‘high value’ male while ensuring future intrasexual friendships.

That may seem like an overly scientific way of saying women watch out for other women slutting it up, but the subcommunications of ovulation are so subtle that women’s subconscious, peripheral awareness of those cues evolved for a sensitivity that goes beyond the obvious slut. That’s how important retaining a better-than-self SMV optimal mating choice is to women in an evolutionary scope. That sensitivity is part of women’s psychological firmware.

[…]In addition, if a woman were to consistently and indiscriminately exclude other women from her own and, by extension, her partner’s social circle, she might gain a reputation for being non-communal and non-nurturing, and thus, for being an undesirable friend. This might not only thwart her ability to form future friendships with other women, but might also lead her partner to perceive her as highly difficult, uncooperative, controlling, and non-trusting.

Thus, on one hand, the costs of indiscriminately avoiding other women are high because women reap important benefits from making new same-sex friends, On the other hand, women can and do mate poach with frequency, and those women deeply embedded in one’s social circle may have increased access, motivation, and ability to poach successfully.

There’s a few things to unpack here before we can make this information Red Pill / Game applicable. The most important metric that female mate guarding indicates is her genuine assessment of a man’s SMV and how valuable his participation and investment in their LTR (or even STR sexual value) is to her.

I’ve seen this mate guarding play out in my own relationships before, both as a Red Pill husband who happens to work with beautiful women in the liquor industry and prior to my Red Pill awareness of it in my libertine 20s. Back then it was easy to pass off as ‘bitches be crazy’ when a girlfriend or a short term sex partner “just got jealous”. But in hindsight the timing of those fits of jealousy seemed a bit to regular.

I’m going to suggest that developing an awareness of a woman’s bouts of jealousy or her subtle timing in wanting to spend time alone with you, or her being more sexually proceptive (she wants to fuck more) with you at times you may think odd. These are Alpha or Beta TellsA woman’s preoccupation with guarding you from other women is a prime indicator of your SMV worth to her. It stands to reason that only ‘desirable’ men deserve the effort of her mate guarding.

This is an important Red Pill sensitivity to have as it also allows you to determine a woman’s unspoken understanding of where she and you stand in relative SMV comparison. As I was saying in the introduction here, that ‘desirability’, that SMV ratio, that Alpha impression that makes you worth mate guarding is subjective to what a woman’s self-perceived SMV is in respect to your own. When we interact with women in the long term it’s very easy for men to lose sight of this balance and think that their frumpy wife is the best they can do. There is a definitive psychological game that women of low SMV will play with men they know are of higher value – they will continually devalue that man as a form of mate guarding.

That devaluation may take the form of browbeating, nagging or accusing him of being attracted to other women in an effort to get her higher value LTR man to self-limit his being poached by endlessly qualifying himself to his low SMV wife/girlfriend. It’s far easier, and far lower an investment of resources if a low SMV woman can convince her higher SMV man to mate guard himself.

Just as an aside here, there may be a few readers who’ll think women will rationally consider that their long term provisioning is virtually assured in a feminine-primary social order. Alimony, child support or pro-female government will assure her and her offspring a baseline of security, so why mate guard any man?

The answer of course is that women’s psychological firm ware didn’t evolve to acknowledge these considerations. Once again T-Rex doesn’t want to be fed, he wants to hunt. So even with the logical consideration that provisioning is assured women’s limbic (particularly on an Alpha Fucks short term breeding assurance) still wants those environmental and behavioral cues that indicate they have that security.

Passive Dread

So with all of this to digest how do we put this knowledge of women’s limbic desire for ensuring a mate’s exclusive sex and provisioning to use for us?

The obvious answer is in the title of this post – developing that awareness of your SMV worth to a woman is a good starting point from which you can subtly employ a passive form of Dread.

I’ve gotten a lot of grief for just my acknowledging Dread, much less using it beneficially for both a man and whatever woman he chooses (long or short term). It’s always about how horribly manipulative it is, or it’s just an unsustainable game of brinksmanship between a couple that destroys trust. But what these (usually female) critics never recognize is that Dread is already an integral part of every relationship by order of degree.

The fact that both male and female mate guarding behaviors are evidential facts of both sex’s hindbrain function should be proof enough that Dread, the concern of loss of investment, and the subconscious, comparative evaluation of SMV is something that’s always an operative. It’s inherent to our conditions as evolved human beings.

My advice in this instance is for men to become sensitive to the indicators of that ovulatory mate guarding dread and use that insecurity to promote a better, genuine desire in that woman. Suggesting this will seem counterintuitive to a Blue Pill mindset. The conditioned response will be to allay that woman’s fears (the ones she’s subconsciously aware of but will hate you for making her acknowledge) and provide her with comfort and familiarity.

But comfort and familiarity are anti-seductive and kill the genuine desire, the genuine need to fuck you in order to keep you and show her appreciation for your higher SMV. Why does a woman compete for what she is constantly comfortably assured she already has?

The trick to employing soft or passive dread is making yourself sensitive to the opportunities to use it and then gently provoke it in as covert and indirect a way as possible. One of the better ideas the early PUAs had was mastering the art of the Neg, or the backhanded compliment. The idea was to casually knock a woman’s self-image down to a manageable degree in order to get her to qualify herself the the PUA. Passive dread operates on a similar principle.

You need to see the opportunities for its use, and women’s propensity for mate guarding men they find ‘desirable’ is a reasonably predictable opportunity. See those chances for other women’s casual flirtations with you, look for those unsolicited opportunities for easy social proof, and don’t dissuade your woman’s initial mate guarding response. Casually push back on the mate guarding impulse, don’t jump to the reassurances of your undying love and interest.

See that opportunity for what it is – a chance to restate whose Frame she’s chosen to be a part of. She wants to merit your value. Take that effort away from her and you become valueless to her.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

968 comments on “Ovulation & Dread

  1. @Dutchman

    In regards to one-itis, you can show indifference to her as you should, but you still need to develop your own mindset to not have one-itis. To do this, some of us have been going on about Marc Lewis’ Biology of Desire and the way to pave in the rut you are in (the rut of one-itis). Rollo calls one-itis a psychological disease (I think) but you can easily call it a habit or an addiction. And as I discussed one way to overcome this is with other dopamine inputs as a work-around. You need to employ these other inputs to get rid of the one-itis. Really good music, exercise with emphasis on weightlifting or running, adventures, good parenting of the children with positive feedback that they are doing well, bright eyed and eager to engage in the outside world, and sex with your wife (incremental successes in the dead bedroom), as well as a desire for hobbies. For me personally, reading non-fiction is also a dopamine input (think about how reading and commenting here on TRM makes you feel good and gain some real power).

    In regards to turning up the ass-holish-ness during ovulation, think instead of calling this alpha oak-tree behavior (that is congruent with your abilities and skills) rather calling it asshole. (There is what what she perceives and there is your mindset and what you project well). Exhibit alpha behavior without having one-itis. Otherwise you look like an incongruent ass hole. Be an alpha self-improved man. Not your old self in an ass hole costume.

    You might want to experiment with a slight bit more comfort during the luteal phase (without going too far with it) and only initiate during the ovulatory phase. This is a low downside and high upside approach. It worked for me and I turned beta tells into alpha tells over the past year. You will get some beta tells during ovulation because of extinction bursts, but they will decline over time and turn into progressive alpha tells.

    I’m ready to stop talking about the semantics of extinction bursts in a minute. But we all agree they are real and they are spectacular in the fact that they will happen with a barrage of shit tests. And at this stage, you have to perceive and practice shit test management. It is the foundation of a married man turnaround.

    If B.F. Skinner can get a pigeon to have a flurry of shit tests, then so will your wife have them. I was wrong, the do come from the hind-brain, or at least the mid-brain and not the fore-brain as I had stated. They are not in the realm of women’s free will. HABD was wrong in saying that women don’t have them (or he might not have said it that way) but was right in saying it is just their normal hind-or-mid-brain that needs to be operant-ly conditioned by you.

    The important and practical thing to know is that they will happen and you need married man or PUA game tactics to deal with them. And HABD and Sentient are pretty accurate in their practical suggestions. I have seen intuitively and employed their suggestions in the past and they do work.

  2. “Exhibit alpha behavior without having one-itis. Otherwise you look like an incongruent ass hole. Be an alpha self-improved man. Not your old self in an ass hole costume.”

    Good shit. I hadn’t even thought about it in those terms.

  3. Dutchman
    I’m definitely having to fight the oneitis. My brain is so used to it.

    That’s an extinction burst going on, right there. You have the one-itis neural pathways going back for years, right? You must consciously, deliberately, reroute that. The pathway won’t go away, but you need to redirect it. Lots of good advice on how to do that, and let me add this: just open girls. Just talk with women in coffee shops, find something out about them that is interesting and tell them “Oh, that’s interesting!”. Run approach and interact. In doing this you will be showing yourself that oneitis is bogus, you will develop a bit of an abundance mentality, and make soft Dread possible.

    Learning or re-learning how to talk to girlies in an entertaining style will make you feel better, but it also will translate to home. It’s low investment to tease a barrista about her hairdo as if she was your little sister; if she’s having a bad day and flips out, meh, her loss as you move on. But the more times you run “bratty sister” game on women in the world, the better you get with it, and then some fine afternoon you find yourself running that game on your woman without even thinking about it.

    I was in a store the other day, and mentioned something vaguely technical. A new clerk perked up with a know-it-all “Well, I know that too!” attitude. I kept on talking to the other clerk, and then referred to “Miss Smarty Pants” in an aside. Instant flare up, “Well! It’s Miss Smith!” followed by a pause – a pause I filled with a smirk and chuckling. Three seconds later (I counted) the new clerk gave me her full name as she obviously sought to qualify herself. Then I let her tell me what she knew, and on the way out I made sure to say “BYE (REALNAME)”, next time I’m there she’ll remember me.

    Bratty sister game works well on all sorts of women, it needs to be natural rather than a script, and one way to learn it is to run it on women out in the world. Don’t try to run it as a script on your wife out of frustration, that looks way too much like butthurt.

    Don’t. Be. Butthurt. I know, there’s a long train of abuses and rebellions that you’d like to call her to account over, but she won’t see it that way. When you find yourself getting resentful, bitter, butthurt, etc. take a break away from her, if possible away from the house.

    Be absent from time to time, even if it is only a 30 minute walk around your neighborhood. You need the exercise anyway. Be busy with things that are important to you – that’s part of re-establishing Frame and if your mind is absorbed in a task or project it can be easier to suppress butthurtedness.

    She’s in the midst of a two day long extinction burst right now after I completely dismissed her silly complaint that I was talking to our son. She’s giving me the “cold shoulder” to which I’m showing indifference as best I can.

    ZFG. Indifference to her cold shoulder. Not butthurt “Oh, I would never DREAM of touching Her Majesty!” stuff, just “meh. I’m too busy to pay attention to that stuff, let me know when you’re done with that tantrum”.

    Yes. View her emotional storms more like a 2 year old banging her head on the floor, than as any sort of family crisis.

  4. Longtime reader of TRM here, Rollo. One of two absolute must read sites for me and the only ‘sphere-related site which I read every post and try to read all of the comments (FYI – the other is Instapundit). Your writing here has answered a lot of questions for me and dramatically impacted my outlook on not only my own interpersonal relationships but society in general. I can’t thank you enough for that.

    Now, let me remove the kneepads and get to the real reason for this comment: I would like to suggest that you display numbering on the comments. Finding time to get through the comments is getting a bit challenging of late (800+ on this post alone!) Congrats on that, BTW, as it is obviously a great problem to have and is indeed indicative that the topics discussed here continue to reach an ever-widening audience (albeit still too slowly unfortunately, IMHO, to turn the ship around before it strikes the proverbial berg). But I digress…

    The primary and most obvious benefit of numbering the comments is that it would allow your readers to more easily find their place if for whatever reason they have to pick up again after a while after closing a browser, getting on another device, etc. It would also give them some sense of where they are in the process of getting through all the comments if that is what they wish to do. Even cooler would be to provide some sort of functionality that would let readers “go to” a particular comment via the number. I am no expert on WordPress but I am pretty sure it allows for comment numbering. The “go to” functionality would understandably be trickier, though, and, therefore, possibly too heavy a lift.

    Please take this comment with the grain of salt that it is worth as I really don’t know what would be involved in implementing it. And please continue to do the awesome job that you do. It is a service that is desperately needed and greatly appreciated.

  5. Here is my advice to Dutchman.
    Commence mockery or ridicule or whatever but I have to say it.
    If your wife is seriously having anxiety issues/hormone imbalances from what you’ve indicated I don’t think “amused mastery” or “gaming” whatever is going to help really. Dissecting this into infinitum “she said/he said” and so forth….every action/reaction, it’s not that material for a person with a chemical imbalance.
    This is my SERIOUS advice. I know it isn’t PC, and it isn’t sphere approved either. Just hold her. Pat her head, and tell her that everything is going to be alright.
    When she’s having an anxiety issue, or panic attack, or whatever it sounds like she has…just hold her tightly, even if she starts crying and struggling or whatever. Think of it like a dog who is having a panic attack during a thunderstorm. What would you do? That’s pretty much the equivalent of what it sounds like you are dealing with. That’s not a slam on her, I get that way too and when I do, when I have anxiety issues, or panic attacks, that is what my husband does. He holds me close, pats my head, and tells me it will be alright.
    Try it. See what happens.

  6. @Liz

    ” That’s not a slam on her, I get that way too and when I do, when I have anxiety issues, or panic attacks, that is what my husband does. He holds me close, pats my head, and tells me it will be alright.”

    let me take a wild guess here Liz… You are totally wild about your husband no? He is your rock?

  7. @ Liz

    ““You are totally wild about your husband no? He is your rock?”

    Yes!”

    dear girl, thank you for demonstrating why no one on a RP site should ever, ever listen to any female poster about anything.

    Now go make that man a sammich… and toss in a BJ as well… 😉

    Dutch’s wife can’t bear the thought of him at worst, or is indifferent to him at best…

  8. @Bluepillprofessor January 26th, 2016 at 2:01 pm

    Love the pic for this article! I use the same pic for the cover of my book. It was very prescient of you to post “Ovulation & Dread” this week as it happens my long awaited magnum opus:

    “Saving a Low Sex Marriage: A Man’s Guide To Dread, Seduction, and the Long Game”

    will be available as early as Friday (January 29)!!! See this link to access the book when it is ready (and also for some ultra cool podcasts comprising a Married Red Pill entry level class in the style of the MGTOW videos).

    https://bluepillprofessor.wordpress.com/2015/05/22/hello-world/

    Thanks Rollo- you always attack these issues from angles I never even considered.

    Your observations suggest that women are really more aware of their reproductive cycle than they let on. Can instinct explain WILLFUL BLINDNESS? These behaviors are so (seemingly) goal directed and obvious the claimed ignorance of them looks like naked deceit. Is THAT why so many women loathe manospherians and The Red Pill?
    They know already- and they don’t want anybody telling men because it takes away their advantage and puts women in a bad light. The publisher who reviewed my book is a woman and she had no objections to any of it- Dread, Seduction, Tingles, Hypergamy, AF/BB, Dominance, Submission, Rough Sex, Manhandling, Shit Tests, Holding Frame- she already knew ALL of it.

    Magnum opus indeed! I read the first five chapters of the book so far and it is a fantastic read. A near perfect distillation of manosphere tactics for dead married man bedrooms up to this point in time. He has improved on Athol Kays first two books (which were a distillation of red pill awareness and game up to that point), Ian Ironwoods great writing and excellent books, and also Deida’s TWSM, which he quotes passages, including the best chapter, “Stop Hoping for Your Woman to Get Easier”.

    He also distilled the experiences of 10,000s of posts on reddit married red pill and from that distillation, knows this stuff works.

    Well researched and well written. This is a MUST READ!
    It could save a married guy a couple years of reading and distilling manosphere knowledge on how to improve his marriage (and sexual strategy). And there is no guy that could put the information together in the kind of organized, systematic way that Bluepillprofessor has.

    As a Pook aphorisms goes:

    We all have failings in life. The losers are those who seek women as a balm for their personal failings. “If I marry her, my life will have purpose and be complete!” The result is a nagging frustrated wife. The point is that we helped create the nagging wife, she didn’t come from nowhere.

    @Liz

    I have no problem with you advocating for the best for Dutch’s wife. That is your job as a woman. But it is too simplistic. I would wish in a perfect world that she was enthralled with him and he was great at being a wonderful masculine, self made combination of AF/BB. And that the couple had ultimate admiration and respect and desire to have passionate sex with each other. The problem is there is an energy-sucking, unskilled relationship going on here. I say it is from their ignorance, no one told them how to manage the relationship and the female stages of manipulation took over. And I’m not blaming her. It is just as much his fault for abdicating his role as the masculine to her feminine. They have lost their polarity. And have a dead bedroom.

    For one gender’s sexual strategy to succeed the other gender must compromise or abandon their own. –Rollo Tomassi

    From BLUEPILLPROFESSOR’s book:

    Preface For Women:

    This book is written for men, and it contains locker room language that will offend many if not ALL women. I am not going to apologize as you have now been warned. I just want to be clear from the beginning that not much good can come of any woman reading this. My own wife has not read this, and she has little interest in doing so. This is just guy stuff that no woman needs or even wants to know, and if you do, it may destroy the magic of letting intimacy just happen naturally. Don’t read this if you are a woman. There is no secret knowledge for you ladies, so move along and go make your husband a sandwich before you give him this book.

    However, if you are a woman in a marriage or long term relationship, and there is something missing from your life, especially if the unnamed
    something you have lost is all that glitter you felt earlier with your lover. Then you should really consider giving him this book. You just never know; I might be able to show him how to absolutely rock your world.

    After you give your man this book, you should order something that will help you, as a woman. As luck would have it, I had the fortune to read Laura Doyle’s 2015 book, First, Kill All the Marriage Counselors just as I was finalizing the edits for the book you are reading right now and realized that her advice is essentially the mirror image of the advice I had just spent several months writing for men.

    Trust me on this, if you don’t believe anything else, girlfriend: If you read Laura Doyle’s book and implement her “6 intimacy tools” good things will happen. If your husband reads my book at the same time, then I seriously expect magic to happen, and the Heavens to open up. At worst if your man reads this book and implements some of the ideas, it will leave him a better man with a much better idea of how to please you.

    So… here are 3 books for women, by women, with time tested techniques that can actually help a woman who is in a low sex, unhappy marriage just like your situation!

    -First Kill All the Marriage Counselors, Laura Doyle

    -The Surrendered Wife, Laura Doyle

    -Fascinating Womanhoood, Helen Andelin

    Trust me girls, I’m a doctor. Really. Put this book down and hand it to your husband or boyfriend in 3…2…1…

    Preface For Men:

    For the guys reading, if you are a man in a low sex marriage then stick with me, and I will tell you what thousands of men have done to repair their lives and their marriage. If you are a man whose woman has given you this book, then strap yourself in, break out the highlighters and pens, and start taking notes. You are on the rocket docket. For the rest of you guys in low sex relationships, we will start at the beginning to repair the problem by setting a firm foundation. However, you must understand something. This is not going to be easy. There are no quick fixes. What we have are sure
    and steady fixes that can make every week a little bit better than the week before, if you stay focused on what matters and put in the work.

    I cannot understate the importance of this next point: I am going to give you a plan that is likely to work a lot better than what you have been trying to do up to this point, because face it – there’s a reason you found this book… Most of what we have been told by all other self-help books – by marriage counselors, by the advice columnists, by our counselors and therapists—
    does not work. Full…Stop. None of what we have been told to do works. Not even close.

    Hopefully by now, we’ve scared the women away, and since it is only us guys left, we can start to really tell the truth of what we knew all along. All the “relationship advice” given to men is completely and totally wrong. This is very deliberate, and when men finally wake up and realize how they have been fooled for so long, and have suffered so much pain and heartache because of the lies, some of them get really pissed. Be warned, you may get really pissed. But I promise, you will get over it. Welcome…to the real world. It’s ugly and dark, but there is a golden lining that gleams rather brightly. Rage, get pissed, scream, but remember….All I am offering you is the truth.

  9. One of the annoyances, or pet peeves that I have is when certain individuals say that “I bought your book” to Rollo Tomassi or will to Bluepillprofessor. When with the price they put on the book is to get knowledge out to individuals to promote red pill and game. These two individuals are so obviously not doing it to make a buck. They are autonomously men of means and are trying to help you guys out. With their information.

    Secondly, this conversation thread upstream, obviously had something stuck in my craw, when HABD and Sentient started talking about the immediate benefits of PUA game in a situation like Dutchman’s. Now mind you, I have the utmost respect for these two guys sharing there golden words here. Their comments are excellent. The employ PUA tactics which I totally endorse, as a tactic for married man game. I takes a lot of calibration to your own circumstances. (And I also don’t have a dead bedroom in my own personal situation. I do have a HSE (high self esteem) wife who is attractive, yet is totally seduced by the FI and social conventions and had practiced the Female Stages of Manipulation very well in the past. And at the time I do have real power to control circumstances and determine my outcomes. This stuff is propelling me higher up the learning curve)

    I am a voracious reader as one of many hobbies among a dozen current ones and hundreds of previous ones.

    This new book by Blue Pill Professor is simply genius in regards to married man game (dead bedroom or not) and it will go down in the manosphere as a standard.

    In regards to my former comments on going as slow as needed, to calibrate based on your own personal situation (and value of your current relationship, marriage and children), here is an excerpt of Blue Pill Professors current book that says way better what I was trying to say upstream. (I’m currently on Chapter 22,page 235 of 605–including footnotes and appendixes, reading in my plenty of “in between time” while I keep very busy intellectually and physically in real life).

    Of course, you need to provide “comfort” in a marriage. Of course, you need to do your share, or more than your share of the work, and household chores. Of course, you have to be “nice” and hold your wife in your arms, and encourage her, and listen to her problems. It’s just you can’t do these things expecting her vagina to explode in fluids and drip ropes of slimy wetness all the way to the floor through her soaked panties. Of course, you have to surprise her with a “date” or some other surprise, and of course you have to help around the house. Of course, there are the kids, Lord Have Mercy the kids! That is an entirely different level of Heaven and Hell, but now I really am digressing.

    Where was I? Right, extolling the benefits of “comfort” in your marriage. However, let me stop right there. Your problem likely isn’t that you have not provided enough “comfort” to your wife by being Beta. Your problem in a low sex marriage is that you have not provided enough “Alpha” to turn her on. Let me take a wild guess and speculate that you are not reading a book about how to turn round a low sex marriage because you need to be “nicer” to your wife. Yes, that was sarcasm. The problem isn’t that your wife is not comfortable enough with you. The problem is most likely she is TOO comfortable with you.

    She has you trapped inside her little cage. She sees you as a helpless little fish flopping around the bottom of her boat. She does NOT see you as the wild, strong, beautiful bird. She does not see you as the in-demand man who takes care of business and is pursuing his purpose in life.

    Dread, is about changing that and my research on the topic suggests it is one way to turn around a “Dead Bedroom” marriage. If you want to read despair and pain almost beyond description- although they certainly spend time and care with their excruciatingly detailed descriptions- go to that blog on Reddit. If you want to read a promising answer to the dead bedroom, keep reading this book.

    First, I need to say again, and it can’t be said enough, you need to implement this SLOWLY. Did I say slowly? Yes, I did and let me repeat. You need to implement this SLOWLY. Don’t hit her with everything at once. Pick your battles. Go slow. This is not a Blitzkrieg or scorched Earth plan. This is a slow, methodical, inexorable plan forward towards a better life. Ideally your wife should not even know you are implementing this plan for up to 8 months. For many of you that will not be a problem because if she is not having regular sex with you then you are probably completely off her radar. She sees you as the safe, sweet provider. She knows that she should love you for it, but she doesn’t. She is not even aware of her lack of passion, much less why she feels that way in the deepest reaches of her feminine soul tainted by social conditions and equalitarian mythology.
    Writers with experience coaching and advising men in low sex marriages, have consistently written that it will take about 1 month of hard work and repair for each year that you have been in the low sex marriage. I think at a minimum, before you get to Dread Level 10 you should have been working on the steps for more than a year. This is not a hard or fast rule, and every situation is different, but it makes a lot of sense to me.

    So start introducing more Alpha behaviors and start eliminating the Omega behaviors. Sometimes you need to increase BOTH Alpha and Beta and sometimes you need to focus solely on the Alpha. Every relationship is different, and you need to figure it out for yourself. A rule of thumb is to start eliminating your Omega. Then start building up your Alpha behaviors until you run into a special kind of Shit Test known as “The Comfort Test.”
    When you are being the aloof Alpha, and your wife suddenly starts whining about how you don’t love her any more, or how you are “cold” to her, or how she doesn’t feel like she is connecting emotionally any more… THAT is the time to start adding in more Beta, caring behaviors or more properly that is the time to add OAK.

    The Oak: Oak behaviors provide both Alpha and Beta in one behavior or behavioral sequence. Think of the Oak tree that protects and shelters and imagine the Alpha male protecting and sheltering his family and his lover. That is the “Family Alpha.” He gets them wet with behaviors that also provides comfort and security all at the same time. He is the full package.
    For example, an “Oak” behavior could be a strong and protective embrace that turns into a warm hug. The strong and protective is Alpha. The warm emotional connection is Beta. Both at the ame time in one behavioral sequence is Oak.

    So when your woman needs comfort, don’t necessarily decrease the Alpha, but do make an effort to show her that you care. Women speak covertly most of the time. If she is openly asking for more affection, or she genuinely needs more help because she is feeling overwhelmed then for the love of God give her some affection and step up, be the man and help her. Don’t lose your Alpha, but don’t forget that this is your wife. If she needs your help, then it is your job to provide it.

    Bear in mind that “help” is often NOT ‘do more dishes’ but “help” can very well be laying down next to your wife and encouraging her to talk about her problems. Key point here: You don’t talk about YOUR problems. You don’t really “talk” about hers either because she doesn’t want “solutions.” She wants to sort the emotional content of her problems in her mind by spewing verbal omit all over the place while you hold her. I always imagine a shield around myself and listen intently, often prompting further feelings, BUT I do not try to offer solutions. She doesn’t want solutions. She wants to vent. She wants to sample her emotions like a buffet while she relaxes in your protective embrace. That is “Oak.”

    When you get to Dread Level 5, this is often the time when you start to get powerful Comfort Tests. Be aware and be prepared to reassure your wife with a strong, confident attitude without slipping into supplicating, weak, pussy-worshiping mode. A warm, silent hug and an understanding look is all that is usually needed.

    Basically, the plan is not hard. All you have to do is balance the level of Dread with the precise level of Alpha/Beta/Oak mix that your wife needs in that moment all while eliminating the Omega. No problem! Why do people say this is hard?

    Our blog is titled:
    “Married Red Pill: The Red Pill on Hard Mode” for a very good reason.

    Are you reading his book yet Dutchman? It is your exact prescription.

    It is fantastic. And I give a hearty thanks to BluePillProfessor for the effort. It is a great review of everything I have absorbed from the manophere over the last 2 1/2 years, only more concise and better for any married man game. Best time to have read this is 20 years ago. Next best time is now.

    Sure, it may bore the single guys. That’s why I post this as the 851st post in the old thread. We’re all on the same masculine imperative team.

    All of the best in mastery, all you guys.

  10. “Writers with experience coaching and advising men in low sex marriages, have consistently written that it will take about 1 month of hard work and repair for each year that you have been in the low sex marriage. ”

    Such as whom?

  11. @SJF
    from feb 8 at 6:18pm
    i wasn’t going to get into this bc i don’t really have time…but after reading this blue pill professor’s excerpt, it really could cause some problems for some men, so i’m getting sucked back in…lol…and i know you told me to not take it easy on you (bc you can take it) so i won’t…if that’s changed, you should probably just skip this whole comment…lol… so here goes…bc you really do need to understand this stuff if you are going to be giving advice to men trying to work out their marriage issues…

    (note – i don’t know how much this book is like current MMSL bc i haven’t read that or this book either…lol, but it seems similar (purple pill) and i know Rollo hates that stuff bc of the damage it can cause men who are trying to change…and put in the work… but they get side tracked based on misinformation. also, this is not a book review bc i haven’t read this, and the excerpt might just be a cherry picked example of the most blueish pill part of the whole book, so do your own due diligence…lol)

    also: (disclaimer: i’m just some goof on the interwebs, so what do i know?…lol…they probably shouldn’t even let me have a ‘net connection…do NOT listen to me…lol)

    having said that, i just want to point out how the good professor’s book is actually blueish pill, shading towards purple…and is infused with the FI…which is cunning…and pervasive…

    “Secondly, this conversation thread upstream, obviously had something stuck in my craw, when HABD and Sentient started talking about the immediate benefits of PUA game in a situation like Dutchman’s. ”

    there is no ‘pua game’…there is only ‘game’…and that is based on red pill knowledge (ie brutal reality…lol…as demonstrated through in-field experience…the WHOLE idea of game, is that it is reverse engineered ‘theory’…from actual results…)…the fact that the game techniques are used to bang hotties on SNL… OR improving your marriage is just a different application of the SAME stuff…girls are girls…(regardless of the legal situ…)…and that ‘stuck in your craw’ feeling is probably at about the same place that red pill got stuck sliding down…lol…but i’m still trying bc your heart is in the right spot…and i know how scary the red pill stuff is when it’s outside your comfort zone…

    “Now mind you, I have the utmost respect for these two guys sharing there golden words here.”

    no you don’t…lol…(well, you actually might…lol) bc i introduce cognitive dissonance into your view of the world…that’s why what i say sticks in your craw…but that’s ok. nothing i tell you is outside the realm of in-field experiences (whether my own or someone else’s…as reported as a FR…AND replicated by others…), and i don’t really need your respect (although i do think it’s kind of cool if you DO try to actually apply what i’m telling you…bc YOUR in-field experience is all that really counts…)

    “Their comments are excellent.”

    that’s true…you obviously have good taste…lol…

    “The employ PUA tactics which I totally endorse, as a tactic for married man game. I takes a lot of calibration to your own circumstances. ”

    no, it really doesn’t…and here’s why = ‘calibration’ is when you change your demonstrated SMV (through stories or body language/subcomms, etc) as based on the current girl’s own perceived SMV (generally aim for 1-2 points higher than hers)…so as to achieve a desired result = get her into bed…this is necessary bc if you’re SMV is too high (3 points greater than the girl) she will think you are just going to pump/dump her bc there would be no way she could ‘attain’ you (have a realistic chance to get commitment from you)…bc you are out of her league…

    BUT in the case of a married man, he has ONE fixed quantity of girl = his wife…and presumably he knows her well enough to have some idea on how she views her own SMV…so, no on-the-fly changes will be needed…BUT even more importantly, since she already HAS commitment from him, she only cares about getting the biggest alpha stud out of the deal that she can…so, there really is no downside to him just going straight up alpha stud…bc even if he was suddenly 4!!! points higher than her, she would think she hit the jackpot…(structural dread notwithstanding…lol…and that can be taken care of on an individual incident basis…)

    “This new book by Blue Pill Professor is simply genius in regards to married man game (dead bedroom or not) and it will go down in the manosphere as a standard.”

    if this excerpt is any indication, let’s hope not…just get Rollo’s books…and read the whole site here…(nb – what’s probably in play here, and why you really think this book is the BEST, is called confirmation bias… bc it matches with your current version of the world…purplish pill though it might be…)

    from the book…

    “Of course, you need to provide “comfort” in a marriage. Of course, you need to do your share, or more than your share of the work, and household chores. Of course, you have to be “nice” and hold your wife in your arms, and encourage her, and listen to her problems. It’s just you can’t do these things expecting her vagina to explode in fluids and drip ropes of slimy wetness all the way to the floor through her soaked panties. Of course, you have to surprise her with a “date” or some other surprise, and of course you have to help around the house. Of course, there are the kids, Lord Have Mercy the kids!”

    this is actually really BAD advice…it’s straight up FI…the only thing missing is his ‘leaning in”…lol…why did Dutchman actually do ‘better’ when he just took a shower and spent time on himself?…bc that’s what alphas DO…lol…and if you want to trigger a girl’s hindbrain for arousal (desire sex), that’s what YOU will have to do too…

    “Where was I? Right, extolling the benefits of “comfort” in your marriage. However, let me stop right there. Your problem likely isn’t that you have not provided enough “comfort” to your wife by being Beta. Your problem in a low sex marriage is that you have not provided enough “Alpha” to turn her on. Let me take a wild guess and speculate that you are not reading a book about how to turn round a low sex marriage because you need to be “nicer” to your wife. Yes, that was sarcasm. The problem isn’t that your wife is not comfortable enough with you. The problem is most likely she is TOO comfortable with you.”

    that’s an accurate assessment of beta marriage…

    “She has you trapped inside her little cage. She sees you as a helpless little fish flopping around the bottom of her boat. She does NOT see you as the wild, strong, beautiful bird. She does not see you as the in-demand man who takes care of business and is pursuing his purpose in life.”

    again, good assessment…

    “Dread, is about changing that and my research on the topic suggests it is one way to turn around a “Dead Bedroom” marriage. If you want to read despair and pain almost beyond description- although they certainly spend time and care with their excruciatingly detailed descriptions- go to that blog on Reddit. If you want to read a promising answer to the dead bedroom, keep reading this book.”

    maybe… but probably not…

    “First, I need to say again, and it can’t be said enough, you need to implement this SLOWLY. Did I say slowly? Yes, I did and let me repeat. You need to implement this SLOWLY.”

    really BAD advice…

    “Don’t hit her with everything at once.”

    that’s exactly what you want to do…bc then her hindbrain doesn’t have a chance to adapt…which will allow an easier reset…this is also why introducing a “dance party” or ‘leaving the house,’ etc. (if it’s outside your usual behavior pattern) will disrupt her expectations…which allows an easier reset (provided you can hold your frame at the “new normal”…)

    “Pick your battles. Go slow. This is not a Blitzkrieg or scorched Earth plan.”

    this is exactly what you want…for the same reasons as in a war…lol…overwhelm her hindbrain’s expectations…as well as her hamster’s ability to spin the ‘new normal’ into a new control structure…

    “This is a slow, methodical, inexorable plan forward towards a better life. Ideally your wife should not even know you are implementing this plan for up to 8 months. For many of you that will not be a problem because if she is not having regular sex with you then you are probably completely off her radar.”

    so, this advice is designed to continue ‘dead bedroom’ for at least another 8 MONTHS?!!!…lol… maybe he should just ask his wife for permission to be more ‘alpha’…lol…bc you know…that would totally work!…lol…and in the mean time, her radar pings some alpha stud at the grocery store for a quickie in the car…fortunately for most men, any alpha stud capable of doing this, is generally not interested in ‘wives’…bc their SMV is too low…

    “She sees you as the safe, sweet provider. She knows that she should love you for it, but she doesn’t. She is not even aware of her lack of passion,”

    yes, she IS…and she resents you every day that you continue as a beta chump…until she FINALLY can’t take it anymore and divorces your ass…girls really do WANT their husbands to be alpha…and they really DO love desire sex…why do you think they cheat?…have you not read ANY of the stuff at TRM?…lol…

    “much less why she feels that way in the deepest reaches of her feminine soul tainted by social conditions and equalitarian mythology.”

    this is true…girls can’t do introspection…it’s just part of their wiring. that’s why it doesn’t really matter if they know what game is or not…

    “Writers with experience coaching and advising men in low sex marriages, have consistently written that it will take about 1 month of hard work and repair for each year that you have been in the low sex marriage. I think at a minimum, before you get to Dread Level 10 you should have been working on the steps for more than a year. This is not a hard or fast rule, and every situation is different, but it makes a lot of sense to me.”

    this is straight up FI…and reinforcing the same…bc the underlying dynamic is that you have to ‘earn’ (through hard work) the right to have desire sex…but if you understand red pill, you know that’s not even possible…bc you don’t ‘just get it’…the converse of that is that you can just ‘have’ desire sex if you are an alpha stud…no work required…just a solid frame and some kino escalation…lol

    note – Sentient’s question regarding WHO these ‘experts’ are was not a shit test. he’s not some girl trying to evaluate your genetic potential…lol…it is a good question though, so WHO are they?…a statement like that SHOULD be verifiable…bc then we can look up the rest of their advice, to see if they are actually worth listening to…

    “So start introducing more Alpha behaviors [such as?…specifically…] and start eliminating the Omega behaviors [such as…specifically…]. Sometimes you need to increase BOTH Alpha and Beta and sometimes you need to focus solely on the Alpha. Every relationship is different, and you need to figure it out for yourself. ”

    that’s kind of THE problem don’t you think…lol…you are telling the man that you really don’t know how to help him…so, he needs to figure this out himself…

    “A rule of thumb is to start eliminating your Omega.”

    that’s good advice, but where did that ‘rule of thumb’ come from…bc this is the first i’ve heard about it…

    “Then start building up your Alpha behaviors [such as?…specifically…] until you run into a special kind of Shit Test known as “The Comfort Test.””

    and what does this look like…exactly…you know, so men can be ready and spot these in real time…and why would she use this?…and also, married men’s LEAST problem is passing comfort tests…it’s actually better for their marriage if they FAIL these tests…lol…but that would not support the FI…bc passing a comfort test allows the woman to feel/be in control…

    “When you are being the aloof Alpha, and your wife suddenly starts whining about how you don’t love her any more, or how you are “cold” to her, or how she doesn’t feel like she is connecting emotionally any more… THAT is the time to start adding in more Beta, caring behaviors or more properly that is the time to add OAK.”

    those are actually shit tests…lol…and ‘oak’ is actually NO beta at all…lol…it’s just straight up ‘non-reactive’ alpha…and this is exactly the wrong time to even try to add any beta, bc her hindbrain will misinterpret as weakness (reacting to her frame/failing shit tests), not strength. the time to add beta is AFTER she has done something special for you…you know as a REWARD for behavior that you want more of…lol…operant conditioning in play…bc THEN she will see it as a strength…bc she understands that it is a reward that you are bestowing on her, even though you don’t have to…AND it is not ‘reacting’ to her frame…

    “The Oak: Oak behaviors provide both Alpha and Beta in one behavior or behavioral sequence. Think of the Oak tree that protects and shelters and imagine the Alpha male protecting and sheltering his family and his lover.”

    this is actually a GREAT concept…but i’m not really sure where that college girl lover is going to stay…probably have to move her into the guest room…lol…if the bp professor is going HERE, maybe i WILL have to reconsider reading this book and get a copy…lol…do you know if he covers specific steps in the process or is it just the same ‘general’ kind of advice?…lol

    “That is the “Family Alpha.” He gets them wet with behaviors that also provides comfort and security all at the same time. He is the full package.”

    this is actually possible… to be the full package…BUT you can only do it from an alpha frame, not starting from a beta frame…and most men do not start from alpha…bc if they did, they wouldn’t be HERE looking for advice…lol…

    “For example, an “Oak” behavior could be a strong and protective embrace that turns into a warm hug. The strong and protective is Alpha. The warm emotional connection is Beta. Both at the ame time in one behavioral sequence is Oak.”

    that’s actually true…see Blaximus’s comment on raising girls in the War Bride’s thread…bc THAT’s what this looks like in play…although you really can’t have BOTH at the SAME time…

    “So when your woman needs comfort, don’t necessarily decrease the Alpha, but do make an effort to show her that you care. Women speak covertly most of the time. [true…lol] If she is openly asking for more affection, or she genuinely needs more help because she is feeling overwhelmed then for the love of God give her some affection and step up, be the man and help her. Don’t lose your Alpha, but don’t forget that this is your wife. If she needs your help, then it is your job to provide it.”

    that’s straight up FI…of the white knight variety…bc if he responds to her, he fails those shit tests…at least until his game improves to the point where she is viewing him as alpha stud…then, it’s all good…

    “Bear in mind that “help” is often NOT ‘do more dishes’ but “help” can very well be laying down next to your wife and encouraging her to talk about her problems. Key point here: You don’t talk about YOUR problems. You don’t really “talk” about hers either because she doesn’t want “solutions.” She wants to sort the emotional content of her problems in her mind by spewing verbal omit all over the place while you hold her. I always imagine a shield around myself and listen intently, often prompting further feelings, BUT I do not try to offer solutions. She doesn’t want solutions. She wants to vent. She wants to sample her emotions like a buffet while she relaxes in your protective embrace. That is “Oak.””

    this is actually BAD advice…in the singles world, guys that do this are called beta orbiters or emotional tampons…lol…what part of ‘DUAL… SEXUAL… strategy’ is unclear?…you can either be sexual OR friendly…AF OR BB (includes beta orbiter…), not both…at least not until you have achieved alpha stud status…lol…and even then, every time you ‘friend’ you lose some alpha…and have to weather some shit tests to get it back…lol…

    “When you get to Dread Level 5, this is often the time when you start to get powerful Comfort Tests. Be aware and be prepared to reassure your wife with a strong, confident attitude without slipping into supplicating, weak, pussy-worshiping mode. A warm, silent hug and an understanding look is all that is usually needed.”

    that’s actually true…bc you are SHOWING her that you see her subcomms and are dealing with her in that way bc you ‘just get it’…but again, this is from an alpha frame…

    “Basically, the plan is not hard. All you have to do is balance the level of Dread with the precise level of Alpha/Beta/Oak mix that your wife needs in that moment all while eliminating the Omega. No problem! Why do people say this is hard?
    Our blog is titled:
    “Married Red Pill: The Red Pill on Hard Mode” for a very good reason.”

    why would you try to make this stuff seem hard?…serious question, bc it really isn’t conceptually difficult. the hardest part is the emotional trust that men have to have in the implementation…1) that they CAN do it (they can…) and 2) that it will have positive results (it will…)…

    “Are you reading his book yet Dutchman? It is your exact prescription. ”

    Dutchman can do alot better by just reading TRM (site and books) ‘cover to cover’ and ‘agree and amplify’ on his wife’s shit tests…lol…easy peasy…and, from what i’ve read, he really does seem to be doing great…

    some other stuff that i was going to let go, but since i’m sucked back in, i’ll address…lol…

    “Rollo calls one-itis a psychological disease (I think) but you can easily call it a habit or an addiction. And as I discussed one way to overcome this is with other dopamine inputs as a work-around. You need to employ these other inputs to get rid of the one-itis. Really good music, exercise with emphasis on weightlifting or running, adventures, good parenting of the children with positive feedback that they are doing well, bright eyed and eager to engage in the outside world, and sex with your wife (incremental successes in the dead bedroom), as well as a desire for hobbies.”

    there is only ONE way to get rid of one-itis…that’s actually talking to/interacting with actual real live girls (not your one-itis/wife) such that you actually KNOW that you have options…regardless of whether or not you act on that knowledge…the rest of that stuff is cool/fun, but it doesn’t address one-itis…and certainly NOT sex with her…lol…that just makes it worse…

    just one final note before i wrap up…the concept of ‘extinction bursts’ as the cause of a flurry of shit tests:

    “If B.F. Skinner can get a pigeon to have a flurry of shit tests, then so will your wife have them. I was wrong, the do come from the hind-brain, or at least the mid-brain and not the fore-brain as I had stated. They are not in the realm of women’s free will. HABD was wrong in saying that women don’t have them (or he might not have said it that way) but was right in saying it is just their normal hind-or-mid-brain that needs to be operant-ly conditioned by you.”

    shit tests do NOT originate as conditioned responses…they are a girl’s hindbrain testing her environment for alpha stud genetics…lol…BUT the fact that they LOOK like they DO operate as a conditioned response (with an increased flurry of shit testing when confronted with a change (a male throwing some alpha cues) in her environment) allows some predictive qualities and approaches to the situ. 90% of men that are dealing with this stuff are not going to be able to tell any difference wrt their interactions bc they don’t have the skills to do that, so it really doesn’t matter for them = they change their behavior… they get a flurry shit tests – they can make their predictions and make some plans to deal with the expected behaviors, so in that sense it’s a benefit (and you will NEVER hear me saying that anything that allows you to make accurate predictions and get better results is bad…lol)

    BUT, for those other 10% of men out there (and for pedantic thoroughness for the 90%, so they know where they are going…) the ACTUAL mech is important bc it allows you better understanding and you can do more ‘dodging bullets’ kind of stuff…lol…

    here’s how i know that it’s not an extinction burst in play. if i introduce alpha behaviors and expect a flurry of shit tests, i can shut those down by ‘going on the attack’ and not waiting to be reactive to those shit tests. by UPing the alpha i can redirect her hindbrain to see me as an alpha stud…and then those shit tests DON’T happen at all…if they were actually an ‘extinction burst’, they would happen anyway…they would have to bc that’s the definition…for a good example of what i’m talking about see YaReally talking about dealing with BPD girls…bc that’s the same idea, just on steroids…lol

    i do have one question for you though…if Dutch COULD turn his marriage completely (meaning desire sex, etc) around in, say two months…would you be sad?…serious question…bc you seem to think it’s not even possible…which is where that whole ‘turn a marriage around in a week and a half’ thought experiment came from…

    good luck!

  12. Thanks for being such a crappy-style writer with poor narrative with great ideas. That makes me feel better (with my psychological projection I consider myself less than excellent at writing because of lack of skills development over decades).

    I would be (somewhat) elated if Dutch could turn it around fast. The faster the better. I most certainly don’t think it is possible to change it that fast. But my thinking that doesn’t take away from his potential. See, what the other mysterious “other writers” had is some feedback on forums. Athol Kay obviously saw men alpha up in six months and have their wives walk away from them then because they lacked the full picture. Bluepillprofessor has data points from thousands of stories from married red pill reddit as well as the meta-collection of other “authors” he may or may not cite.

    And he is still likely to run into “The Main Event” because he is in deep.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/2m72x0/mrp_theory_the_main_event/

    And I entirely think Dutch can and will improve his situation, have his wife and kids and live happily ever after. I’m not trying to pull him back in the crab barrel. He’s already demonstrated he’s not a top ten percenter.

    I don’t get “paid” extra, or have trouble with cognitive dissonance if others succeed fast, or it took me 18 to 24 months to turn the battleship around.
    Most of the stuff was me changing me. I’m pretty skilled, have resources and had a strong desire to change, but it did take me that long. I’m pretty good now.

    “90% of men that are dealing with this stuff are not going to be able to tell any difference wrt their interactions bc they don’t have the skills to do that, so it really doesn’t matter for them = they change their behavior… they get a flurry shit tests – they can make their predictions and make some plans to deal with the expected behaviors, so in that sense it’s a benefit (and you will NEVER hear me saying that anything that allows you to make accurate predictions and get better results is bad…lol)”

    You are making my point for me. That being that 90% of men are going to take that long time to hone their skills and unwind 18-24 years of patterned behavior, poor alpha skills, and abdication of dominance. Once a wife fills the void of dominance a while ago, she’s not going to all the sudden give it up precisely because she can’t trust and doesn’t think the new alpha red pill is congruent or lasting.

    And Yes, the excerpt which you dissected was the most blue pill of the book. And it is an excerpt subsequent to him telling Alpha, Beta and Omega actions just prior.

    Blue Pill Professor is straight up red pill. (his name is an ironic twist of his current primary profession). Athol Kay originally wrote MMSL as a distillation or red pill manosphere thought as it relates to married man sexual strategy. Any perjorative purple pill label you want to slap on it is just that, a perjorative label. The rap on purple is that red pill principles have to be compromised if one is to make a buck off the audience (AK) or not (BPP). AK’s original stuff was good and more endorsed than not. But just like Roosh, he took a bad turn. This doesn’t invalidate his early stuff with was actually other peoples collective knowledge in his interpretation.

    “lol, but it seems similar (purple pill) and i know Rollo hates that stuff bc of the damage it can cause men who are trying to change…and put in the work… but they get side tracked based on misinformation.”

    I’m sure Rollo hates the bad parts of it and likes the good parts. I doubt many readers need as much caution and hand-holding as you seem to imply. And not that there is actually much bad there, but a lot of good red pill info and game tactics with some potential bad is actually a good start. And there are so many different situations out there among men. This shit is about dead bedroom married man.

    Blue Pill Professors book is excellent for the 90% of men dealing with this stuff. You being in the other 10% who just gets it and turns around a less than adequate marriage sex life in two weeks allegedly don’t. And yes you took most of the your critical parts out of context.

    “there is no ‘pua game’…there is only ‘game’…and that is based on red pill knowledge (ie brutal reality…lol…as demonstrated through in-field experience…the WHOLE idea of game, is that it is reverse engineered ‘theory’…from actual results…)…the fact that the game techniques are used to bang hotties on SNL… OR improving your marriage is just a different application of the SAME stuff…girls are girls…(regardless of the legal situ…)…and that ‘stuck in your craw’ feeling is probably at about the same place that red pill got stuck sliding down…lol…but i’m still trying bc your heart is in the right spot…and i know how scary the red pill stuff is when it’s outside your comfort zone…”

    I’m the first one to state that game is fungible among all platforms of relationships from SNL to married man. Red pill awareness is the same, game tactics vary–as you say just there “it is just a different application ” Different tactics.

    And I do have one question for you. If” Saving a Low Sex Marriage: A Man’s Guide to Dread, Seduction and the Long Game” could help turn around Dutch’s situation and not harm it much. In other words if it had Low Downside, and High Upside (as judged by the results in 18 months, would you endorse it as having worked for him. And 90% of guys in the same boat (10% guys in the same boat dont’ need it) because they don’t have the current skills to up the Alpha due to lack of mastery?

    Not everyone is as skilled as you, Having a Bad Day.

  13. “I would be (somewhat) elated if Dutch could turn it around fast. The faster the better. I most certainly don’t think it is possible to change it that fast.”

    “she’s not going to all the sudden give it up precisely because she can’t trust and doesn’t think the new alpha red pill is congruent or lasting.”

    @SJF
    When you say this it’s just hard to believe that you’re as far along as you think you are. It IS possible. I don’t care how bad it was. I mean, I don’t know how LIKELY it is to happen in two weeks… but it’s important for everyone (including yourself) to understand that it IS possible.

  14. If I’m not mistaken, I think the point HABD (and Andy) are trying to make is that it is important to understand the real dynamics at play here, and that it is *structurally* possible to turn things around in two weeks or whatever.

    In *practice* it will take 99% of men a lot longer (and in fact I think it took both HABD and Sentient quite a while from reading their posts), but that’s a question of each man’s starting point, dedication and speed of skill acquisition.

    It is NOT because the *wife* needs to be “eased into it” or whatever. If the *man* can change his behaviour completely in two weeks (near impossible), the marriage can be changed in two weeks – I think that’s just the point being made.

  15. “In *practice* it will take 99% of men a lot longer (and in fact I think it took both HABD and Sentient quite a while from reading their posts), but that’s a question of each man’s starting point, dedication and speed of skill acquisition.”

    The practice of the practice WILL take longer if people are out there saying it should take longer though… that is the issue. Not HOW long it takes, but how long a guy allows himself to expect it to take. This book is actively advocating that it WILL/MUST take time. When that entire premise is just false, as HABD as so ably demonstrated. (really great stuff HABD, you answered some very troubling points the BPP snippet raised).

    I was hoping by the way BPP if you are reading, that you might actually have some sources for the 1 month per year metric? I know that Athol in particular has actively disowned this sentiment, or at least said he never ever said such a thing.

    A relationship reset will take as long as you allow it to take, and that might mean never. It is highly correlated however to the willingness of the man to push his alpha and be ZFG about outcomes. Just like SNL cold approach pick up.

    For a laugh I went and looked at some of the old crew at MMSL Forum… so many still stuck in the same place. Afraid of pushing their wives but really afraid of pushing themselves. And a few guys wives have cheated on them in the meantime and they’ve been divorced. LOL

  16. “It is NOT because the *wife* needs to be “eased into it” or whatever. ”

    You gotta be shitting me. It is because the wife needs to be eased into or she’ll walk away with cash and prizes. And your dead bedroom.

    She needs to ease into it and he needs to develop mastery that he never had.

  17. “or she’ll walk away with cash and prizes. ”

    this undercurrent of fear is subcommunicated… fuck her “cash & prizes” that in and of itself is BP/FI mentality.

    I started my reset with the simple declaration that we would undoubtedly get divorced, given the path we were on (having spent a week reading Vox CH and AK). Best thing I ever did, in retrospect.

  18. Might as well update here… I’ve been fucking up a bit. Last week I was ignoring her for a few days after some dumb shit and when I got home on Friday, she kept engaging me. I backturned her several times and actually told her calmly that I was considering divorce if certain dramatic behaviors continued (don’t want to reveal too much).

    But then I just got tired of my burden of performance the next day and wanted to fucking relax so I was far more comforting and chose words that I figured would not prompt more shit testing. I’ve been really busy at work this week so I haven’t really been reading or thinking about this stuff too much.

    Regarding bluebillprofessors’ book, it does seem a bit TOO blue pill. I’m not going to buy any materials that can be traced by my wife, anyway. The reason for this is that not only do I know it will prompt lots of shit testing, but it will also signal incongruence to her, and probably lessen the impact of my alpha behaviors (because I didn’t “Just Get It”). There is an abundance of free materials available on the internet that I can access anonymously so that’s what I’m going to do.

    @HABD, Sentient:

    How long did it take you to turn things around?

  19. @SJF

    I don’t know if I’ve mentioned it before or not but I DID have mastery with her in the beginning. She basically worshipped the group I walked on when we first got together. I just slowly let myself be betaized and developed oneitis for her (because I was enjoying the comfort stuff/getting older).

    Rollo wrote about this here:

    http://therationalmale.com/2015/06/03/you-never-forget-your-first/

    “It’s not that she’d settled for what she thought was a Beta in her early twenties, it’s that he was what she thought was Alpha then, but learned later that he wasn’t. This is the risk inherent to Hypergamy – that a woman might miss out on more optimal sexual selection choices while still in her peak SMV phase and able to choose from the broadest pool.

    It’s almost a reversal of women who follow the Sandberg plan of Hypergamy and make disclaimers of how different they are now from how they used to be in college. The sentiment is still the same, but the roles are reversed – she’s different now from how she used to be because she (thinks) she has a better grasp of what is Alpha now and he ain’t it.”

  20. Dutch

    “@HABD, Sentient:
    How long did it take you to turn things around?”

    It took about 8 months to get to the increase in sex life I wanted (and really the first month showed shocking improvement, which was ceded away in naivete), and another year to realize that there is no end… no “finish line”. LOL

    Once you understand the matrix, it’s much worse in many ways because you SEE there will never be an end. There will always be hypergamy running it’s sub routine, always be the TRUTH of emotion validating her feelings…

    And then once you get to that point you really understand it was never ever about her at all to begin with. It was always about you and will always be about YOU.

    So you going all in on YOU Dutch?

    So the meta question, there really is no proscribed time frame that you will grasp and believe ALL of the red pill tenets and put them to work. Could be days, years or never… it’s up to you.

  21. “I don’t know if I’ve mentioned it before or not but I DID have mastery with her in the beginning. ”

    Same here… total hand at a peak alpha phase in my life… her words in “awe of me” couldn’t believe “I liked her”, had “never done that before” (lol) was “falling in love with” me… and before our wedding wrote me a long note that the sight of me makes her tremble and the thought of me committing to her made her weak… she was blissfully happy.

    So ya… all well, all well. And I felt the same, thought I found my personal 10 crazy beautiful sex goddess… so lock it down right?

    And then piss it all away over 20 years trying to live a blue pill churchian life… Ah well… at least I’ve gotten a lot back.

    But it’s a sign of red pill growth Dutch, relish the regret for what might have been, because going forward you never will have any.

  22. @Dutchman

    “@HABD, Sentient:

    How long did it take you to turn things around?”

    for me, from the time i first read CH/TRM/early MMSL (following a google search…) to having my first successful interaction with hb8 (and hb7) (both about 19yo…lol) (where i KNEW i could have taken her home…and all the predictions that i made regarding the interaction were right on the money…and i could even see the hamster spinning…lol) ‘in the wild’ (in front of my wife = dread…lol…) was about 10-11 months…but, i was already comfortable with flirting with hot girls at that point…so, maybe 6 months…

    (although as Sentient said that increase in sex was in the first month!…right after i tried my very first agree and amplify…lol…got 2 shit tests right in a row (it was almost like she was ‘testing’ me for some reason…lol)…A & A’d both of them…that night = fireworks!…lol…)

    i was MOTIVATED…and completely clueless (omega sperg…not kidding)…lol…i could SEE the divorce coming on the event horizon (bc we had already talked about it…and she was waffling bc of the kids)…

    talk about burning down my marriage…lol…in my case, the match was already lit and in the air falling towards the open can of gas… on the edge of the town tire dump…lol…so, i didn’t really have anything to lose. it was more a matter of stalling the wife going to the lawyer…until i got some pua skillz under my belt…lol

    if i would have started a couple months later, or worked less diligently…i wouldn’t have made it…it was THAT close…but at some point i ‘flipped’…just like that star trek video of spock…not kidding…lol…and the red pill just slid all the way down…

    on your situ…

    i think you are doing great…all things considered…you are seeing some of this stuff in real time…(you spotted the interaction dynamics with OC)…

    “Might as well update here… I’ve been fucking up a bit. Last week I was ignoring her for a few days after some dumb shit”

    this might have come off as butthurt…or not…it just depends on your reasons…and the vibe you put out…if you are ‘reacting’ = butthurt…if you are ‘in YOUR frame’ and just have other stuff to do = alpha…

    ” and when I got home on Friday, she kept engaging me.”

    that’s actually good…bc she wants your attention…unless she was shit testing you…in which case your backturns were ok…

    ” I backturned her several times and actually told her calmly that I was considering divorce if certain dramatic behaviors continued (don’t want to reveal too much).”

    i actually think that married men really can’t turn their situs around completely without this step…bc by it’s nature that’s your MOST ZFG attitude…it;s the legal equivalent to just rolling over and going to sleep…lol…and until you do this, there will always be some doubt in her hindbrain…

    “But then I just got tired of my burden of performance the next day and wanted to fucking relax so I was far more comforting and chose words that I figured would not prompt more shit testing.”

    did that work? or did it just draw more?…what did your in-field experience tell you?…

    ” I’ve been really busy at work this week so I haven’t really been reading or thinking about this stuff too much.”

    in-field >>>>>>> reading/interwebs/theory…lol…great job!…

    from Sentient:

    “And then once you get to that point you really understand it was never ever about her at all to begin with. It was always about you and will always be about YOU.”

    that’s bc in an alpha situ, where you set the frame, girls will ALWAYS be ‘reacting’ to YOU…(that’s also true in a beta situ, but the end result is not good for you…lol)

    props on putting in the work…

    (ps i changed my email, so the design is different)

    good luck!

  23. @SJF

    that annoyance that you feel (which comes through in your writing loud and clear) is the ‘delta’ on your cognitive dissonance…and my pushing on you is causing that push-back…that’s ok…i wouldn’t push on you, if i didn’t think it were possible for you to get a benefit…

    i actually just want the best for you…which is why i’m pushing your comfort zone around a little bit…lol…

    “I most certainly don’t think it is possible to change it that fast. ”

    why not? serious question, bc it gets to the heart of my thought exercise…girls are reactive…they ping off their environments for everything. if they ping off alpha, they have alpha…if they ping off beta, they have beta…

    “And he is still likely to run into “The Main Event” because he is in deep.”

    it doesn’t really matter how ‘deep’ a man is, if he is in a beta marriage, there will be some point where he goes through the transition to alpha marriage (if he ever gets there)… that’s just logic…

    that transition always looks pretty much the same, bc the underlying dynamic is the same… it’s where the girl ‘submits’ to his frame…

    “He’s already demonstrated he’s not a top ten percenter.”

    i actually think you are selling him short…based on his current FRs, he seems to have a base level of awareness that i didn’t have when i started…he might not be top 10% right now, but that can change…

    “That being that 90% of men are going to take that long time to hone their skills and unwind 18-24 years of patterned behavior, poor alpha skills, and abdication of dominance.”

    i actually agree with this…bc MOST of those guys are never going to get out of their comfort zones to push their limits…or confront their limiting self-beliefs…so, those guys are really looking at NO change regardless of what they do…or how long it takes them…

    but THAT wasn’t the thought experiment…

    “Once a wife fills the void of dominance a while ago, she’s not going to all the sudden give it up precisely because she can’t trust and doesn’t think the new alpha red pill is congruent or lasting. ”

    see below…she can’t GIVE it to you…not if it’s going to be authentic = desire sex…you have to take it…you know, like an alpha stud…lol

    “You gotta be shitting me. It is because the wife needs to be eased into or she’ll walk away with cash and prizes. And your dead bedroom.

    She needs to ease into it and he needs to develop mastery that he never had.”

    this is the FI in play…bc at it’s base is the idea that you somehow have to have enough ‘time’ to get her permission/buy in/agreement into accepting you as the new ‘master’…through all your hard work at ‘becoming alpha’…it’s really that purple pill as put forth by current MMSL (i just looked at a couple threads, and the overall meta there was that it was ok to be ‘dominant,’ if your wife agreed to it…lol)

    this is obviously NOT alpha…and her hindbrain knows…

    contrast that meta with ‘taking the frame’ WITHOUT her permission…lol…how long would THAT take to get buy in from her hindbrain?… a couple weeks max…

    that’s WHY she can be seduced at the grocery store by a guy with good game…good game doesn’t need ‘permission’…lol…

    “And I do have one question for you. If” Saving a Low Sex Marriage: A Man’s Guide to Dread, Seduction and the Long Game” could help turn around Dutch’s situation and not harm it much. In other words if it had Low Downside, and High Upside (as judged by the results in 18 months, would you endorse it as having worked for him.”

    of course i would endorse it in that situ…i will NEVER diss anything that allows a man to make accurate predictions and better his life…BUT this is NOT ‘low downside/high upside’…it’s just the opposite…like current MMSL…that’s why women buy that stuff (and allow their husbands to participate…lol)…bc it’s in THEIR best interests…not the best interests of their husbands…for a variety of reasons…

    “Not everyone is as skilled as you, Having a Bad Day.”

    lol…i’m not skilled…i’m just some goof on the interwebs…i can barely even tie my own shoes (velcro ROCKS!!!)…lol…

    BUT…i DO want YOU (as well as other men) to have the best life possible (and i really do mean that)…and that usually means letting that red pill slide down just a liiiiitttttle farther…

    good luck!

  24. You guys are fucking killing me. We are all on the same side of this equation. All seeking the same goal as married men.

    @Andy

    “@SJF
    When you say this it’s just hard to believe that you’re as far along as you think you are. It IS possible. I don’t care how bad it was. I mean, I don’t know how LIKELY it is to happen in two weeks… but it’s important for everyone (including yourself) to understand that it IS possible.”

    Wtf are you talking about. When did I ever say it is not possible (I did indeed proscribe a time line that is in line with my experiences and the same as Sentients experience 18 months ( 8 months into starting for good desire sex, and another year to assimilate and be congruent alpha, after a 25 year marriage). I suspect Dutch has only been married for 10 to 15 years.

    What is hard to believe about how far along I think I am. How far do you imagine I am along? Am I not far along? (I’m not going to apologize for my great life, my wealth, my excellent choice in a wife, our complementary features that each of us bring to the marriage) my luck brought on in skill, my job I love, my hobbies and adventures, my mental point of origin, my wonderful children, my good guy friends, my sex life, my positive ego-investments, minimizing my weaknesses and vices, and my not seeking a completion in life.)

    And thanks for conveniently leaving this out in the comment from which you quoted the other couple sentences:

    I also said: “And I entirely think Dutch can and will improve his situation, have his wife and kids and live happily ever after. I’m not trying to pull him back in the crab barrel.”

    @Sentient @Dutch

    “And then once you get to that point you really understand it was never ever about her at all to begin with. It was always about you and will always be about YOU.

    So you going all in on YOU Dutch?

    So the meta question, there really is no proscribed time frame that you will grasp and believe ALL of the red pill tenets and put them to work. Could be days, years or never… it’s up to you.”

    This I agree with 100%. For us it was me that came around after 18 months.

    @ Dutchman

    Regarding bluebillprofessors’ book, it does seem a bit TOO blue pill. I’m not going to buy any materials that can be traced by my wife, anyway. The reason for this is that not only do I know it will prompt lots of shit testing, but it will also signal incongruence to her, and probably lessen the impact of my alpha behaviors (because I didn’t “Just Get It”). There is an abundance of free materials available on the internet that I can access anonymously so that’s what I’m going to do.

    You crack me up. And I call BS on that. The book is not blue pill. You haven’t read it. It is totally in line with all the advice you are getting here. Yes the excerpt I quoted was the most blue pill of the book, but get that I put that here because of the “realistic time frame” which I think is entirely practical in your situation (And BluepillProfessor thinks is practical based on sifting through thousands of men postion on married red pill reddit). Go ahead and pick a mentor that promises you a two week or two month time frame if that suits your timeline and you want to play with dynamite.

    Do yourself a favor and click on Forge the Sky’s avatar name. He has an anonymous email address specifically for manosphere purposes. I don’t.
    Ask him how to get a copy of the book without your wife knowing about it. I dare you and I won’t take no for an answer. And then read the book and judge for yourself whether it makes sense. In my opinion this is more efficient way for you to employ your MI sexual strategy. Sentient, HABD and I employed this red pill strategy and it worked. And Rollo will be proud of you to employ your best strategy, keep your wife if you want her and make a better life for your children with two parents.

    Good luck! Indeed.

  25. “of course i would endorse it in that situ…i will NEVER diss anything that allows a man to make accurate predictions and better his life…BUT this is NOT ‘low downside/high upside’…it’s just the opposite…like current MMSL…that’s why women buy that stuff (and allow their husbands to participate…lol)…bc it’s in THEIR best interests…not the best interests of their husbands…for a variety of reasons…”

    It is not like the current MMSL at all. It is good. (you are making shit up, not having read the book. It has only been out for about 12 days. I’m sure you will hear more about it for those that have low sex marriages because the man abdicated his alpha male self that the wife married originally.

    And I got the red pill down a long time ago. And never found it bitter. I personally had a lot more to lose 2 1/2 years ago. Now, I don’t, after I made myself better. And right now I am very good.

  26. Dutchman
    But then I just got tired of my burden of performance the next day and wanted to fucking relax so I was far more comforting and chose words that I figured would not prompt more shit testing. I’ve been really busy at work this week so I haven’t really been reading or thinking about this stuff too much.

    How much do you exercise, and what kind of exercise do you get?
    When feeling tired of burden of performance, if possible get away from her. Go drink a coffee. If you have a hobby out of the house, do that. Got any male friends? Go to see them. But get out of her zone, because otherwise you slip backwards.

    I ask about exercise, because we all need it, and paradoxically we often need it the most when “tired”. Instead of having a beer, have a set of pushups…

  27. I think if we try hard enough, propelled by the Dutchman’s dilemma, we can get this essay to the 1000 comments quota. That is a lot of comments.

    Dutch if you want easy, translate this old CH essay into your married man game. Single man game into married man game.

    https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2009/11/23/the-easiest-way-to-revive-a-flagging-relationship/

    “When a woman pulls back, a typical man’s instinct will be to try and fix his flagging relationship. Men do; that’s how we’re designed. Unfortunately, more often than not this male instinct to action will drive the nails into the coffin of his dying relationship. Most men overreact, either in the beta direction or the alpha direction. A beta will coo and pout and swarm with rays of undying love until his woman is repulsed and leaves him with her heart light and unburdened. An alpha will control and demean and lash out like an angry tyrant until his woman falls into the arms of a more charming man.

    I have a better way. My advice is so simple that any man — from alpha to omega — can follow it with success. It’s this:

    The easiest way to revive a flagging relationship is to cut off all contact.”

    Would it kill you to go lift weights? Would it kill you to go visit a local bar and read a book? Would it kill you to put some distance from your home life? Would it kill you to quash your Omega traits?

    How blue pill is this? The following quote. Where did this originate from? A blue pill book?.No. Red pill all the way down.
    (Footnotes left in, but not linked to, to define that 279 manosphere footnotes define the distillation or red pill married man, manospher factor in BluePillProfessors scribe.)

    Chapter 5: Alphas, Betas, Omegas and Oaks[128]

    Various writers have identified and categorized different levels of male behavior in their interaction with women. I think they have used up almost every letter in the Greek Alphabet to label these levels including Alphas, Betas, Omegas, Deltas, Sigmas, Epsilons, Zetas, and Gammas. These have been identified in various ways, and the whole thing is quite esoteric so instead of interpreting the various nomenclatures I will invent my own. I think the simplest way to understand the nomenclature is to use my own patented 3-category system: Alpha, Beta, and Omega. For Married Guys we add a 4th category, the Oak.

    I present the short definition we will use for these terms followed by a more in-depth discussion. Please note how these are defined in terms of BEHAVIORS. These are not labels that we throw around lightly. Everybody has a lot of Alpha, and a lot of Beta. Everybody has Omega behaviors and
    EVERYBODY (key point) can change their behavior and become more “Alpha” if that is what they want to do.

    Alpha: Male behaviors, attitudes, looks, and actions that make women wet for them. Alpha induces the v vaginal Tingles in women.

    Beta: Male behaviors, attitudes, looks, and actions that provide comfort for women but do not make women wet for them. Beta induces the Warm Fuzzies of comfort in women.

    Omega: Male behaviors attitudes, looks, and actions that are anti-seductive and are often objectively gross, vile, or “creepy.”

    Since we are “Married” we needed another category to describe the red pill father and head of the home and the “Family Alpha”[129] was discussed with the behaviors of this imposing figure characterized as “Oak” from a short piece on the MRP Sidebar called (obnoxiously enough): “The 16 Commandments of Poon” which is WELL worth the read.[130] This is number 15:

    You are an oak tree. You will not be manipulated by crying, yelling, lying, head games, sexual withdrawal, jealousy ploys, pity plays, shit tests, hot/cold/hot/cold, disappearing acts, or guilt trips. She will rain and thunder all around you and you will shelter her until her storm passes. She will not drag you into her chaos or uproot you. When you have mastery over yourself, you will have mastery over her.

    At Married Red Pill, the concept of “Oak” is a key addition to the Pickup nomenclature.

    Oak: Male behaviors and attitudes, looks and actions that are BOTH Alpha and Beta thus BOTH Seductive AND Comforting.

    I want to start with the Omegas so we can get that business out of the way. If you will look at your behaviors objectively, I am willing to bet that you can identify some of them, and some of you can identify a lot of them, that are pure Omega. Consider your worst faults and how they turn off your wife. Look at them objectively and you will probably understand why your wife finds it so disgusting. Whether you lose your keys or your temper, or whether you complain like a bitch, whine like a little girl, or you freak out under pressure, drink, gamble, smoke weed, play computer games and jerk off all day, get fired from jobs, or whatever your ices. I have 7 words for you and I will say it straight.

    Knock it the fuck off right now.

    That’s really all I want to say about the Omega. Make a list of your ices and cut back on them. Get your addictions under control and stop them. Improve your bad behaviors and replace them with good behaviors. Turn your piss poor attitude into a positive, affirming attitude. Stop being a bitch and start being a man! A man projects confidence BEFORE he succeeds. A man does what is needed and appropriate, and he doesn’t need his wife telling him what to do nor does he avoid (or seek) conflict with her.

    Perhaps the best piece of advice on getting women turned on in all of the thousands of pages of blogs and books I have ever read is so simple and so obvious it is practically a Law of nature. I have christened it Bluepill Professor’s First Titanium Law:

    Be attractive. Don’t be unattractive.

    That’s it. Alpha behaviors are attractive. Omega behaviors are not attractive. Decrease your Omega behaviors and increase your Alpha behaviors. Could it really be that simple? Actually, yes it could be that simple.

    You want me to quote the entire book?

    Come on. Read the damn book. You can’t criticize it or dismiss it unless you actually read it. Don’t be lazy.

    18 months. Or less.

  28. “But then I just got tired of my burden of performance the next day and wanted to fucking relax so I was far more comforting and chose words that I figured would not prompt more shit testing. I’ve been really busy at work this week so I haven’t really been reading or thinking about this stuff too much.”

    That’s your best Cypher imitation? Good luck with that.

  29. “How much do you exercise, and what kind of exercise do you get?
    When feeling tired of burden of performance, if possible get away from her. Go drink a coffee. If you have a hobby out of the house, do that. Got any male friends? Go to see them. But get out of her zone, because otherwise you slip backwards.

    I ask about exercise, because we all need it, and paradoxically we often need it the most when “tired”. Instead of having a beer, have a set of pushups”

    I used to exercise often, now I don’t exercise at all. I have no desire to, either. I’m not insecure about my looks, so I don’t see the benefit. I’ve never found that I get ANY kind of boost from it. I couldn’t agree more with YaReally that if you don’t actually get a confidence boost out of it, it’s pointless for improving your game.

    I do have hobbies I need to spend more time on. I have no male friends where I live now (agree this is a big problem).

    @SJF

    “Would it kill you to go lift weights?”

    Yes, fuck that lol.

    “Would it kill you to go visit a local bar and read a book?”

    I know I need to do this.

    “How blue pill is this? The following quote. Where did this originate from? A blue pill book?.No. Red pill all the way down.
    (Footnotes left in, but not linked to, to define that 279 manosphere footnotes define the distillation or red pill married man, manospher factor in BluePillProfessors scribe.)”

    Tell you what, I’ll watch all of the youtube videos bluepillprofessor has linked from his site, and if it’s not a bunch of purple pill “beta is just as important as alpha” stuff, I’ll get the book. I’m just at a point right now where the LAST thing I need to hear is “you really do have to be comforting too” because I’m already far too comforting and she can just use my past comforting behavior for reassurance.

    “I want to start with the Omegas so we can get that business out of the way. If you will look at your behaviors objectively, I am willing to bet that you can identify some of them, and some of you can identify a lot of them, that are pure Omega. Consider your worst faults and how they turn off your wife. Look at them objectively and you will probably understand why your wife finds it so disgusting. Whether you lose your keys or your temper, or whether you complain like a bitch, whine like a little girl, or you freak out under pressure, drink, gamble, smoke weed, play computer games and jerk off all day, get fired from jobs, or whatever your ices. I have 7 words for you and I will say it straight. ”

    I don’t think I have too many omega behaviors. I drink but so what? I fucking want to drink sometimes lol. It’s my fucking life and I’ll drink if I feel like it. She doesn’t like that I drink, so in my view it would be beta (or omega) to stop doing something I want to do because of how she feels like it. Same thing with computer/video games. I don’t play games, but it’s definitely part of the betaization process for dudes to stop doing shit they like because the wife convinces them It’s Time To Grow Up and stop doing X.

    Same thing with the part about getting fired. I make good money but I was a lot more alpha to her when I made a lot less money. Money, job security = BB. One of the core RP truths is that you can have a harem of gorgeous women with literally no income at all.

    This is just “ditch the omega for beta.” No, I want to ditch the beta and omega for alpha.

  30. “This is just “ditch the omega for beta.” No, I want to ditch the beta and omega for alpha.”

    NICE…

    ““Would it kill you to go visit a local bar and read a book?”
    I know I need to do this.”

    I have the same problem. If I have the excuse that I’m going with someone else I have no problem just leaving and hitting the bar. But if I’m by myself… I can’t bring myself to do it. Some major FI programmed guilt thing. I wouldn’t read a book though.

  31. @Andy

    “But if I’m by myself… I can’t bring myself to do it. Some major FI programmed guilt thing. ”

    Yup, that’s me, exactly.

  32. “Would it kill you to go lift weights?”
    Yes, fuck that lol.
    “Would it kill you to go visit a local bar and read a book?”
    I know I need to do this.

    Perhaps you should read The Way of Men and realize the importance of masculine tactical virtues and their surrogates in a modern current society. Strength is one of them. And no one can accurately judge intellectual strength. Physical strength can be judged. (esp. when your wife is fucking you in your alpha mindset).

    I don’t think I have too many omega behaviors. I drink but so what? I fucking want to drink sometimes lol. It’s my fucking life and I’ll drink if I feel like it. She doesn’t like that I drink, so in my view it would be beta (or omega) to stop doing something I want to do because of how she feels like it. Same thing with computer/video games. I don’t play games, but it’s definitely part of the betaization process for dudes to stop doing shit they like because the wife convinces them It’s Time To Grow Up and stop doing X.

    That is just wrong Dutch. Nothing wrong with drinking in my book. Best legal non prescription drug ever. But if it is used as a buffer and making you less alpha and you sink into it for relief of angst and it give you a bigger belly than you need, then giving it up for you not her is where your mind should be. Just another thing she’s disgusted by. And another thing that gives you that urge to be Cypher. I’m not suggesting you need to give it up. Just understand how it limits your Alpha and contributes to your Omega (that she is disgusted by).

    @HABD

    “this is the FI in play…bc at it’s base is the idea that you somehow have to have enough ‘time’ to get her permission/buy in/agreement into accepting you as the new ‘master’…through all your hard work at ‘becoming alpha’…it’s really that purple pill as put forth by current MMSL (i just looked at a couple threads, and the overall meta there was that it was ok to be ‘dominant,’ if your wife agreed to it…lol)

    this is obviously NOT alpha…and her hindbrain knows…

    contrast that meta with ‘taking the frame’ WITHOUT her permission…lol…how long would THAT take to get buy in from her hindbrain?… a couple weeks max…”

    That’s your premise in the first paragraph, not mine–time to get her permission.

    Frame is not power. Sure in a turnaround after swallowing the red pill you can get sex in a two week to two month time frame. That is winning a battle not the war.

    I’m not advocating for going slow or purple pill or asking permission. I’m just being realistic. Sure a man can alpha up and play a game of chicken and go all in on one hand with his chips. Better to be lucky, then, than good at that bet. When you got nothing to lose that is an easy bet to make.

    I entirely admit I have an ego investment in how I did it, just as HABD has ego investment in how he did it. I had low down side and high upside. And I didn’t use buffers in the process. Your mileage may vary. I have a high self esteem, high SMV wife. She could have done very well without me. Very well. I did eliminate my Omega behaviors and it helped me enormously. I was never really blue pill in my ways (imagine that). But my beta ways (realize the difference between beta and blue pill) were an enormous benefit to my wife and kids and were a glue that held things together in a relative stress free and comfortable marriage to a +2 wife. And I did Alpha up from my higher beta, lesser Alpha, striver perch. And I’m not done with that. I never had a completely dead bedroom, (IV drip yes, but I survived and turned that around).

    I’m advocating for practical realism. Sure her hind brain can be DTF after two weeks, but her limbic mid-brain ain’t going to feel good about it, and her fore-brain is going to want to cock-block, have LMR and ASD. Women have been know to engage their fore-brains on occasions. Especially when their are children involved, when their are monetary assets (and alimony and child support payments), when there is social media, television, social conventions, when the wife has already constructed a narrative on how you are a disgusting asshole and has carefully constructed half or more of her exit plan.

    So you can win the intersexual battle and get laid in the short term, or you can strategize and engage to win the intersexual war and set things right in a realistic time frame.

    “No, I want to ditch the beta and omega for alpha.”

    No one is advocating to up your beta. You are already fully Betatized. You have beta. If you totally eliminate beta, you are dissolving the glue that is holding your marriage and kids together. You get rid of all your beta and what you are is merely an Alpha asshole.

    (before you read the following, understand that all of AK’s early stuff is not entirely worthless. He swerved purple after he realized that was where the money was. Doesn’t invalidate his red pill practicality.)

    http://marriedmansexlife.com/?s=6+months

    “But after about six months of now acting High Alpha, Low Beta… he’s pretty much spent down the stockpile of Beta credit. Then she starts getting really hurt and pissed off at him.

    The point of critical failure comes around the six month mark where he misreads a Loyalty Test as a Fitness Test. A Loyalty Test is based on her fears he’s not that into her and a Fitness Test is based on her lack of respect for him. Thus if she acts out a little to see if he actually cares about her (Loyalty Test), and he responds to that like she’s rude, spoiled and demanding, (Fitness Test) the results are going to be quite negative. It’s an easy mistake to make because being more Alpha was successfully passing all the Fitness Tests she was throwing at him before now. Once you have an hammer, everything looks like a nail.

    If you’re in that position, it’s usually fixable, but you’re sure as hell going to have to offer up some apologies and the worse you bankrupted the Beta, the longer it’s going to take to make her feel comfortable being in a relationship with you. If you confuse being Alpha with being a full-time asshole, you’re going to have to eventually change that if you want to stay happily married.”

    @Cypher Dutch

    If you don’t want my thoughts on your matters and you think I am being too hard on you just say so and I’ll shut up about this stuff in regards to you.

  33. ” . . . masculine tactical virtues . . . Strength is one of them.”

    It’s also useful, and weakness is not a virtue.

    “Nothing wrong with drinking in my book.”

    Temperance is a feminine imperative initiative. The word is also, as is to be expected from a feminine imperative initiative, a lie. They really mean prohibition.

  34. Dutchman
    I used to exercise often, now I don’t exercise at all. I have no desire to, either. I’m not insecure about my looks, so I don’t see the benefit. I’ve never found that I get ANY kind of boost from it.

    Well, ok, just remember that exercise, even 30 min. walk, boosts up your immune system and reduces stress. Lifting with proper technique will up your testosterone. These are all good things, especially for a man who’s slipped into betatude…more T would be a good thing, for example.

    I couldn’t agree more with YaReally that if you don’t actually get a confidence boost out of it, it’s pointless for improving your game.

    But it does tend to improve your health, including stamina.

    I do have hobbies I need to spend more time on. I have no male friends where I live now (agree this is a big problem).

    You and 20 million other men. One of the traps that men fall into is the “wife AND best friend” pit. Don’t get me wrong, she should be your friend, and your lover, but best friend? No, not really, because that leads to betatude; if nothing else “familiarity breeds contempt”.

  35. “Nothing wrong with drinking in my book.”

    It’s not what you are doing per se, but why are you doing it. For example, a man who drinks with his meal, or after a meal, as a conscious part of the evening is in a mental state of “this is part of the evening, I don’t need it but I like it”.

    A man who puts away several ounces of alcohol late in the evening to damp down his anger and other bad feelings before going to bed is not in a good mental state, to point out another example.

    Plus alcohol tends to increase circulating estrogen…so a man needs to be aware of how much he’s putting away per week. Just as a man ought to be aware of what sugar does to him, and how much he’s eating & drinking.

    There are other ways to reduce stress that don’t affect the body in the same way. I ain’t a prohibitionist nor a teetotler, but in the last few years I’ve paid a bit more attention to what I’m eating and drinking.

  36. @SJF

    “I’m advocating for practical realism. Sure her hind brain can be DTF after two weeks, but her limbic mid-brain ain’t going to feel good about it, and her fore-brain is going to want to cock-block, have LMR and ASD. Women have been know to engage their fore-brains on occasions. Especially when their are children involved, when their are monetary assets (and alimony and child support payments), when there is social media, television, social conventions, when the wife has already constructed a narrative on how you are a disgusting asshole and has carefully constructed half or more of her exit plan. ”

    As I mentioned earlier, she has YEARS of experience seeing me as alpha, so it won’t be as great of a shock to her system as if she married me as a nice boring beta provider in her epiphany phase. It would be more like “oh fuck the old Dutchman is back!” It wouldn’t be the new me, it would be the old me.

    “I was never really blue pill in my ways (imagine that).”

    Same here. I didn’t know about hypergamy or solipsism but I did think deeply on women’s nature as fundamentally submissive creatures (I used to be religious, wanted to get married and have kids because I thought that’s what God wanted, but I also wanted to do it as the MAN of the relationship, not some henpecked pussy. Dalrock type thinking, basically, just didn’t take it as far as he did). So I set the frame with her initially that I had several non-negotiable priorities, and she happily agreed to all of them. My mistake was thinking that was enough, or that she wouldn’t try to subvert them in the future when I relaxed and became more beta. I just didn’t understand about shit tests.

    “But my beta ways (realize the difference between beta and blue pill) were an enormous benefit to my wife and kids and were a glue that held things together in a relative stress free and comfortable marriage to a +2 wife. ”

    My beta behavior is obviously of great material advantage to my wife and children, but it’s nothing she couldn’t be doing instead. Not talking about income, more just household stuff.

    “But after about six months of now acting High Alpha, Low Beta… he’s pretty much spent down the stockpile of Beta credit. Then she starts getting really hurt and pissed off at him.”

    I’ve read that before and I don’t necessarily disagree, but FOR SURE I want to give it the full six months of alpha before I even consider bringing back the beta.

    “If you don’t want my thoughts on your matters and you think I am being too hard on you just say so and I’ll shut up about this stuff in regards to you.”

    I appreciate your comments, I’m just not always going to agree with you.

  37. “Perhaps you should read The Way of Men and realize the importance of masculine tactical virtues and their surrogates in a modern current society. Strength is one of them. And no one can accurately judge intellectual strength. Physical strength can be judged. (esp. when your wife is fucking you in your alpha mindset).”

    Forgot this part. I do have a TON of classically masculine interests and hobbies. Weightlifting just isn’t one of them lol.

  38. “I appreciate your comments, I’m just not always going to agree with you.”

    Excellent. Then we have a deal.

    Hit up Forge with an email.

  39. As I mentioned earlier, she has YEARS of experience seeing me as alpha, so it won’t be as great of a shock to her system as if she married me as a nice boring beta provider in her epiphany phase. It would be more like “oh fuck the old Dutchman is back!” It wouldn’t be the new me, it would be the old me.

    Gives you a tremendous advantage. A lot of men don’t have that, and thus find it easier to break up the old and start a new relationship, with all the various damage / expense involved. So you’re gonna be the new, improved version of the old, exciting Dutchman, and that is going to work just fine.

  40. She’s actually been texting me a lot today asking for guidance on how to handle some situation and LOOKING for leadership and following my advice. Pretty cool.

  41. @Dutchman

    “She’s actually been texting me a lot today asking for guidance on how to handle some situation and LOOKING for leadership and following my advice. Pretty cool.”

    There you go. and you know why this is right? because she tested your alpha and found it worthy, so she can trust your leading more.

    Just don’t be surprised if she changes her mind after you tell her what to do… LOL More tests!

  42. Pretty cool indeed.

    Rollo wrote about the power of Take Away here:

    http://therationalmale.com/2012/04/23/relationship-game-wife-sex/
    The power of the ‘takeaway’

    In one form or another PUAs use the takeaway to shape desired behavior. This is behavioral psychology 101, reinforce the behaviors you want and punish the ones you don’t, all the time remembering that too much reward leads to satiation and cessation of the desired behavior. Don’t buy your wife flowers in order to get her to fuck you, buy them AFTER she’s performed accordingly and to your satisfaction. So many married men I know (even in their 60s ) still attempt to purchase sex from their wives by ‘allowing’ them to buy expensive things thinking it will lead to ‘appreciation sex’. In reality it will invariably lead to negotiated, obligatory and desireless ‘debt sex’. Remember, the pool boy that your wife cheats on you for didn’t buy her a goddamn thing to make her want to fuck him.

    Your attention is your best tool in this regard. One thing I tell AFCs is not to give away the farm on the first date and that women are by nature attention craving. When you give away your attention without her having to seek it devalues your attention. This is a paradox in marriage because it’s understood that she ‘should’ have 100% of your attention and over the years there is zero mystery about you. When you begin to take away attention she’s grown accustomed to she will seek it. And again you must do this covertly as she will respond to it covertly. You have to be sensitive to the adjustments she makes in her attention seeking, in conversation, in posture, in habit and behavior, because she wont overtly tell you “oh please pay attention to me.” This will add to her desire to have sex with you in order to reaffirm this attention. Sex then becomes a reinforcer for her in this attention seeking which you can then use to modify her behavior – in this case being genuine desire.

    Blue Pill Professor wrote about the same thing in Chapter 21 of his new book:

    Dread Level 4: Options and Consequences

    You Are a Man With Options: After you have been running this plan and improving steadily for a few months, and you have a handle on responding to her Shit Tests (Level 1) and you have developed your plan of improvement (Level 2), and you have actually started to improve your body by lifting weights, and your mind by reading books, and you have become substantially more socially engaged without your wife (Level 3) then it is time for Level 4. You should begin the process of limiting your time and attention when she is not behaving like you need her to behave. You have already removed the reinforcers for her bad behaviors (like sexual denial) by stopping your negative reactions. In Level 4, you will begin moving to a paradigm where you begin to withdraw your time, attention, and ultimately your affection and “presence” for sexual denials.

    Let me take apart these concepts so we are totally clear: Time” is a reward characterized by your physical presence in the room. “Attention” is a reward characterized by a rapt husband listening carefully to his wife, often while holding her tenderly. “However, don’t be confused! “Affection” and “Presence” are very different from “Time” and “Attention.” These are the all-important you that women blather on about. Lots and lots of women have divorced their husbands for the nebulous reason that he is not “Present” and most guys haven’t a clue what they mean. To be clear, your “Presence” means that you are giving her affection and your positive influence and positive emotions, and that you are acting like a good husband with a loving wife. When you are not “Present,” you are not giving your wife good feelings, and you are mostly cold and distant and uninterested in her or her cute prattling. You CAN be “Present” and STILL leave the house while she is ranting and raving! Simply take her in your arms, give her a warm kiss, and tell her “I need to go to the gym sweetie, I will be back in a couple hours.” I think you only withdraw your “Affection” and “Presence” for repeated sexual denials. You begin by withdrawing your time and attention and later, if that doesn’t work you begin withdrawing affection and presence.

    The reader will note that this section on Dread Level 4 is much larger and more comprehensive than any other Level. This is very necessary because Level 4 generated more problems, questions, and requests for clarifications on Married Red Pill than any other level. More guys screw this up than all the other levels combined. This was surprising because the basic concept of this level is simple Psychology 101 and nothing more mysterious than basic operant conditioning. [111]

    The general idea is to start ignoring her for bad behaviors and rewarding her with your valuable attention and good will for her good behaviors. The trick is you need to limit your withdrawal of time, attention, and good will (“presence” and “affection”) ONLY for denials of sex, not usually for other “bad behaviors.” She should feel good when she is good, but if she is being bad, and only you are feeling it, that is a problem.

    A very effective way to “punish” is really nothing more than removing the reinforcers. [112] This is known as Extinction in psychology where you remove the reinforcers to a behavior. We saw what follows in the last chapter is very well known with the behavior suddenly increasing. That is if you are Extinguishing behaviors such as sexual denial by removing the reinforcers, then the denial behavior might increase at first. However there will be a gradual decline in the (denial) behavior over time to a near 0 level (of denial) provided you are able to remove all the reinforcers for the behavior. For example, if a rat pulls a lever and gets a treat every time, it will expect a pellet when it pulls the lever. The first time it doesn’t work he will pull again, and again, trying to get the same response, however eventually he will stop pulling the lever because there is no reinforcement.

    Of course, with humans it is different than with the rat experiments. Right? Sure it’s different! Because humans have that brain thing going, but it is not as different as you might think. For example that damn brain of ours can make it impossible to bring the denial behavior down to 0. However, you can get it pretty damn low. Certainly low enough to stay married—and a damn sight better situation than you have now. If you were turned down for sex just 1 out 10 times you initiated, would your life be any better?
    So, how do you remove the reinforcers for a sexual denial? One way is to leave the house for several hours at a time—go to gym, go to the mall and walk around, go to your brother’s house, go out for drinks with the old buddy you connected with in Level 3, go to church and pray the Rosary. Doesn’t matter, just be gone and don’t tell her where you went. When she asks, tell her you went “out.” You will probably get her attention, and your goal is to ultimately inform her firmly that you do not report to her. DO NOT blow it by losing frame when she loses her shit and starts threatening. Just smile grimly and tell her you do not report to her.

    It is vital to understand that you are not taking these actions in a precipitous way, and you are not doing anything to hurt your wife. You are taking actions to satisfy your own needs first, and you need to get it through your head that is what an attractive, in-charge man does. Putting yourself first does mean you are being “selfish.” When you go to the gym rather than continue to listen to your harpy, sex denying wife complain that’s not “selfish.” That is pure self-preservation, and your best possible move. Don’t allow anybody to shame you for it. If you have calmly attempted to redirect her, then removing this negative influence from your life temporarily can be quite effective. If you get Shit-Tested for being “selfish” then congratulations! You are well on the way to fixing this mess.

    However, I want to emphasize that this removal of your time and attention can easily denigrate into actual abuse of your wife if you are not extremely careful. Yes, I said it and I mean it. Don’t be an abusive asshole with these techniques. In my view, ONLY the behavior of repeated sexual denial warrants actively removing your “presence” and “affection” from your wife. Shitty, nasty, bratty, bitchy behavior is not the type of behavior you usually want to respond to with the active removal of your “Affection” and certainly not your “Presence.” I am talking specifically about the behavior of sexual denial.

    Of course you may want to remove your “time” and “attention” to repeated Shit Tests, rantings and ravings, complaining, and ragings that so many women must do at least monthly (what a coincidence!) but you do NOT want to remove your “presence” or “affection” in response to those behaviors. Telling them apart is not hard. Consider the difference between nodding and listening to her complain for a while and then while maintaining warm eye contact, kiss her before you leave for the gym with a promise to return in a bit, to coldly saying, “OK” before turning your back on your wife and leaving for the gym without another word. Do the first with intractable bitchy behavior and nonstop shit tests. Do the second for sexual denial, and only for sexual denial, and only for a short, but increasing amount of time.

    If you still have objections, consider what you do on an airplane. You know the drill: “In the event of loss of cabin pressure, oxygen masks will drop from the ceiling. If a child is travelling with you secure your mask before assisting the child.” If you are reading this then your marriage has lost cabin pressure, and you need to secure your own mask before helping your wife with hers. You need to get busy, you need to build your own life, you need to get going and get busy and become your own man. If she wants your valuable attention, she is going to have to earn it by becoming at a minimum more sexually compliant.

  43. @Sentient, Dutch,

    So, just had an ex call me and say she wanted my sperm to have another child with since her and her husband are splitting and she wants another kid before her window closes. I asked her how the collection procedure would work. She said I could have sex with her.

    Would you consider that a dread prospect for my wife? lol.

  44. @SJF

    “You want me to quote the entire book?”

    if you want to, i’ll probably end up reading it…lol…but based on what i’ve seen so far, it’s a basic overview of red pill concepts that doesn’t quite make it past purple pill clarity. this would actually be a good start for guys that are not ready to jump in with both feet, and need to dip in their toes first…bc a beginning overview might be all they are ready for…

    and ANYTHING that get guys moving in that red pill direction is good…

    (sometimes i forget that when i started it was like trying to drink out of a fire hose…lol…but i had motivation pushing me, so i adapted…but i do remember the overwhelming feelings of doubt… and try to cut guys slack…)

    BUT (and you knew that was coming…lol) the good professor has some misunderstandings surrounding some of these basic topics (but not enough so far to make it a bad intro for blue pillers looking for answers/to get their feet wet…)

    “You can’t criticize it or dismiss it unless you actually read it.”

    that’s true…that’s why i put up that disclaimer…lol…but what i’ve seen so far, i’ve been able to analyze just fine…

    “Don’t be lazy.”

    lol…my being a sperg makes that almost impossible…i can’t stop myself from analyzing shit in depth…it actually does get in the way sometimes…lol (which makes it hard to get my real work done sometimes (it makes me almost wistful for when i was ‘cut off’ at CH…lol)…

    aaaand here we go!…lol

    (ps…i’m trying italics for the first time, let’s hope it works…)

    Chapter 5: Alphas, Betas, Omegas and Oaks[128]

    Various writers have identified and categorized different levels of male behavior in their interaction with women. I think they have used up almost every letter in the Greek Alphabet to label these levels including Alphas, Betas, Omegas, Deltas, Sigmas, Epsilons, Zetas, and Gammas. These have been identified in various ways, and the whole thing is quite esoteric so instead of interpreting the various nomenclatures I will invent my own. I think the simplest way to understand the nomenclature is to use my own patented 3-category system: Alpha, Beta, and Omega. For Married Guys we add a 4th category, the Oak.

    that 3-cat system is actually the one CH uses and it’s a good breakdown bc it deals with the SMP (of which MMP is still a part…) and there really is no reason to add in a 4th cat except to pay homage to the FI…lol…by trying to conflate the analysis. (although i DO understand what the professor is actually trying to do…which is give a structure to men trying to work their way out of a bad marriage…and make it ok to mix in some alpha…)

    CH’s system addresses the SMP (which really does rule everything – it’s like the one ring…or the force…lol), which being a market seeks to understand how participants (men and women) place VALUE on the commodities therein. given the DUAL sexual strategies in play, girls place value on TWO things – sex/repro and ‘providing’ (non-sexual stuff, includes moral support/validation/feelings/friendship/fancy dinners/etc…) and men on youth and beauty, etc (fertility cues).

    (note – Vox’s cat scheme involves how men relate to each other in a hierarchy and how their position within THAT structure informs their relationships with girls (who are not part of that structure).)

    alpha = high sexual value to girls
    beta = high provider value to girls
    omega = no value to girls in either category…

    typically, girls default to seeing guys as providers bc alpha studs know how to maneuver around those obstacles (such as ‘i have a bf!’…lol)…so it really is a good strategy…

    and when a guy offers NO value to a girl = omega

    (NB – this is WHY YaReally constantly goes ON…and ON…and ON…(lol) about ADDING VALUE to your interactions (all of them) bc girls notice this shit and it pings their hindbrains…)

    I present the short definition we will use for these terms followed by a more in-depth discussion. Please note how these are defined in terms of BEHAVIORS. These are not labels that we throw around lightly. Everybody has a lot of Alpha, and a lot of Beta. Everybody has Omega behaviors and

    (i want to flag THIS following statement bc it’s the BEST point in this whole excerpt…and probably the whole BOOK…in fact, IF just buying this book and reading through it would allow the reader to internalize this ONE point, i would get on the stinkin’ cover and endorse the shit out of this book!!!! (note 4!!!! exclamation points…lol) regardless of any purple pill defects… ):

    EVERYBODY (key point) can change their behavior and become more “Alpha” if that is what they want to do.

    Alpha: Male behaviors, attitudes, looks, and actions that make women wet for them. Alpha induces the v vaginal Tingles in women.

    Beta: Male behaviors, attitudes, looks, and actions that provide comfort for women but do not make women wet for them. Beta induces the Warm Fuzzies of comfort in women.

    Omega: Male behaviors attitudes, looks, and actions that are anti-seductive and are often objectively gross, vile, or “creepy.”

    not a bad overview for someone coming from blue pill to get a taste, but not quite accurate enough for more than that…

    Since we are “Married” we needed another category to describe the red pill father and head of the home and the “Family Alpha”[129] was discussed with the behaviors of this imposing figure characterized as “Oak” from a short piece on the MRP Sidebar called (obnoxiously enough):

    i just wanted to point out the FI influenced SHAMING attempt in play here (that ‘obnoxiously enough’ is disparaging)…the FI is cunning…and pervasive…it’s the professor not “going all in” on the red pill…

    “The 16 Commandments of Poon” which is WELL worth the read.[130] This is number 15:

    You are an oak tree. You will not be manipulated by crying, yelling, lying, head games, sexual withdrawal, jealousy ploys, pity plays, shit tests, hot/cold/hot/cold, disappearing acts, or guilt trips. She will rain and thunder all around you and you will shelter her until her storm passes. She will not drag you into her chaos or uproot you. When you have mastery over yourself, you will have mastery over her.

    At Married Red Pill, the concept of “Oak” is a key addition to the Pickup nomenclature.

    that oak tree idea is straight up alpha stud ‘entitlement’ in play…that’s WHY it gets her wet…lol…and consequently feeling SAFE and SECURE…

    Oak: Male behaviors and attitudes, looks and actions that are BOTH Alpha and Beta thus BOTH Seductive AND Comforting.

    beta is ALWAYS anti-tingles inducing…you really can’t have both…but it would actually be a good first step for a blue piller to start to think about acting more alpha…

    I want to start with the Omegas so we can get that business out of the way. If you will look at your behaviors objectively, I am willing to bet that you can identify some of them, and some of you can identify a lot of them, that are pure Omega. Consider your worst faults and how they turn off your wife. Look at them objectively and you will probably understand why your wife finds it so disgusting. Whether you lose your keys or your temper, or whether you complain like a bitch, whine like a little girl, or you freak out under pressure, drink, gamble, smoke weed, play computer games and jerk off all day, get fired from jobs, or whatever your ices. I have 7 words for you and I will say it straight.

    Knock it the fuck off right now.

    this is straight up FI shaming in play…bc it’s trying to ‘build a better beta’…there are PLENTY of poon slayers that do all that sort of shit…and still get ‘laid like tile’ (yeah, i used to read over there, too…lol)…by hotties…AND/OR their wives…

    That’s really all I want to say about the Omega. Make a list of your ices and cut back on them.

    build a better beta…

    Get your addictions under control and stop them. Improve your bad behaviors and replace them with good behaviors.

    build a better beta…

    Turn your piss poor attitude into a positive, affirming attitude. Stop being a bitch and start being a man!

    that’s actually good advice in general…and i endorse this message…lol

    A man projects confidence BEFORE he succeeds.

    maybe…but he needs to start where he’s at…and just bc he doesn’t have confidence yet, doesn’t mean he can’t be successful…he just has to start…

    A man does what is needed and appropriate,

    FI…or burden of performance…depending on the man’s view of himself…

    and he doesn’t need his wife telling him what to do nor does he avoid (or seek) conflict with her.

    that’s actually a good mental point of origin…

    Perhaps the best piece of advice on getting women turned on in all of the thousands of pages of blogs and books I have ever read is so simple and so obvious it is practically a Law of nature. I have christened it Bluepill Professor’s First Titanium Law:

    Be attractive. Don’t be unattractive.

    lol…i didn’t know this book was supposed to be biting satire…maybe i’ll have to reevaluate…lol…

    this is the view that most blue pillers seem to have just as they transition to MGTOW…bc they are not ‘attractive’ (through whatever limiting self-beliefs they have – not rich enough, not jacked enough, not ‘big dick’ enough…lol…these beliefs have ALL been covered here before…)

    (i think YaReally just schedules for these on his calendar every couple months bc they come up like clock work…lol…)

    AND they don’t feel like they even CAN get to be ‘not unattractive’ (bc of those same limiting beliefs…) so they get stuck at MGTOW…

    That’s it. Alpha behaviors are attractive. Omega behaviors are not attractive. Decrease your Omega behaviors and increase your Alpha behaviors. Could it really be that simple? Actually, yes it could be that simple.

    that’s actually not bad advice…lol…bc it IS simple…it’s just hard to trust that YOU (the guy reading) can actually get there (you can…)

    “That’s your best Cypher imitation? Good luck with that.”

    ALL in-field experience (‘doing’) is good… as long as you are observing what happens and trying to see the cause/effect relationships in play, you will be MUCH further along on the path to mastery than just reading some theory…and doing is always BETTER than sitting in front of your monitor/screen reading… (especially shit that i write…lol)

    “18 months. Or less.”

    2 weeks or more (you said you agreed with this ‘in theory’, is that right?)…up to and including ‘never’…

    “Just another thing she’s disgusted by. ”

    “just another shit test…”…fify…but i do agree that if Dutch is using getting boozed up as a buffer, then he should stop doing that…lol…

    “And another thing that gives you that urge to be Cypher.”

    i’m not seeing that in play, but i’ve been wrong before…lol…i guess it depends on what Dutchman thinks he’s doing…bc he seems to be pretty self-aware…

    “That’s your premise in the first paragraph, not mine–time to get her permission.”

    that was actually my analysis of the dynamic in play…bc of how i read the interaction…not seeing how i was wrong, though…

    (note – holy shit! this is a long-ass comment…lol…back to it…)

    “Frame is not power. Sure in a turnaround after swallowing the red pill you can get sex in a two week to two month time frame. That is winning a battle not the war.”

    but getting authentic desire sex IS the goal, right? so, that’s really the only way to know whether you are winning the war or not…based on the quality and quality of the sex…and if you can get to that desire sex in 2 weeks, then you can sort out the rest of the issues as time goes by…while STILL getting ‘laid like tile’…

    “Sure a man can alpha up and play a game of chicken and go all in on one hand with his chips. Better to be lucky, then, than good at that bet. When you got nothing to lose that is an easy bet to make.”

    this is still the FI pushing on you…bc it assumes that the girl in question won’t respond like AWALT…OR that it’s a fear of ‘not being good enough’ to actually execute on the program…

    i understand exactly what you are saying though…and i know you are mostly worried about Dutch not being able to pull it around…but the advice i gave him about only trying to move her emotions from negative to positive…and just ‘handling’ her shit tests (without pushing back) is the best anybody can do in those situs…with the smallest amount of risk…

    and that’s based on my experience in making MANY mistakes as i turned my own situ around (all of the mistakes i made were miscalculations of going from positive to negative emotions (ie asshole game)). if he’s not going to be able to pull it around with those tools i suggested, he never would have been able to do it with more…bc the marriage was too far gone at that point…sad, but true = shit happens…

    all WE can do is give him moral support (and some game advice…lol) and let him live his life…(i also recommend velcro for shoes!…that shit ROCKS!!!…lol)

    “I entirely admit I have an ego investment in how I did it, just as HABD has ego investment in how he did it. ”

    that’s good self-analysis…but i really don’t…lol…i’m too spergy for that…seriously…if you really want to know how i work, you can go watch that star trek video that i posted again about the melkotians…when i hit bottom and couldn’t deny red pill reality anymore (bc of the cognitive dissonance)… i just ‘flipped’ into ‘spock’s view’ of the FI/reality/red pill… it just all came together…plus i have a standing policy of KNOWING that i could be wrong about ANYTHING (even game shit…lol) and so if you can explain to me WHY i’m wrong…and counter my objections/observations…i’ll just absorb that new reality and keep going…i’m like the borg in that sense…lol…

    but i’m not perfect…lol…i still have my own limiting self-beliefs…and my own sticking points…mostly burden of performance issues (i’m really not understanding that shit…at all…lol)…but i WILL work it out…it’s just a matter of putting in the effort and getting out of my comfort zone…and i keep getting sucked back into doing analysis…but i know it’s bc i’m a sperg…lol…

    “Sure her hind brain can be DTF after two weeks, but her limbic mid-brain ain’t going to feel good about it, and her fore-brain is going to want to cock-block, have LMR and ASD.”

    her hind-brain controls all that stuff…and LMR and ASD only happens bc her hindbrain doesn’t have complete buyin…that’s what her hamster is for…lol…to spin her mid-brain/forebrain into alignment…

    “Women have been know to engage their fore-brains on occasions. ”

    that’s usually when they are dealing with ‘non-alpha’…bc that’s when the hindbrain will let her forebrain out to play…

    “Especially when their are children involved, when their are monetary assets (and alimony and child support payments), when there is social media, television, social conventions, when the wife has already constructed a narrative on how you are a disgusting asshole and has carefully constructed half or more of her exit plan. ”

    ALL derived from her hindbrain repulsion of non-alpha stud interaction (as filtered through her hamster)…logically that means that the SOONER you can go 100% alpha stud, the better your chances are at turning around your marriage and avoiding all that bad shit happening…which leads to the analysis that ‘waiting’ for her to adapt is the real dynamite you should be trying to avoid…

    “So you can win the intersexual battle and get laid in the short term, or you can strategize and engage to win the intersexual war and set things right in a realistic time frame.”

    which is?…and based on what?…bc men embarking on this journey really should be able to have some idea of what they are getting into…which is what my thought experiment is all about = what variables are actually important/in play and how does that affect a man’s expectations of what to expect (note – i’m ALL about being able to make predictions re cause and effect…)

    “If you totally eliminate beta, you are dissolving the glue that is holding your marriage and kids together.”

    FI in play…bc you are warning him away from being ‘in control’ of the situ/taking control from her…

    ” You get rid of all your beta and what you are is merely an Alpha asshole.”

    alpha and asshole are mutually exclusive concepts (but they can exist together)…although ‘asshole’ often presents as alpha…and for that reason, CH advocates for the ‘asshole’ idea…bc it really IS better than beta in the SMP…and in the absence of understanding, it really will get you laid faster than being ‘nice’…but being actual alpha is way better…

    alpha behavior >>> asshole behavior >>> beta behavior…

    “(before you read the following, understand that all of AK’s early stuff is not entirely worthless. He swerved purple after he realized that was where the money was. Doesn’t invalidate his red pill practicality.)”

    it does invalidate his current advice, though…lol…i think his early stuff is still very good…

    But after about six months of now acting High Alpha, Low Beta… he’s pretty much spent down the stockpile of Beta credit. Then she starts getting really hurt and pissed off at him.

    this is only in play after the main event…and it really does go down just like athol indicates…bc at it’s base, it’s her hindbrain worrying about her continued ‘provisioning’ (bc on the plains of Ur, she really could be ‘replaced’ by that 22 yo hb8…with her expectation of DEATH as a result of that…given THAT, how hard is it to understand her panic?)…and that shit is wired in too…

    “If you don’t want my thoughts on your matters and you think I am being too hard on you just say so and I’ll shut up about this stuff in regards to you.”

    ditto for you…

    good luck! (and i still really do mean that…)
    ___________
    @Dutchman

    “I’m not insecure about my looks, so I don’t see the benefit. I’ve never found that I get ANY kind of boost from it. I couldn’t agree more with YaReally that if you don’t actually get a confidence boost out of it, it’s pointless for improving your game. ”

    that’s true about game, but exercise really CAN boost your mood and health…and if you haven’t gotten ‘the boost’, you’re not going hard enough…bc your endorphin release has a set ‘release point’ and when you get there you WILL be able to tell…lol…and it also can ‘get you out of the house’ for a while (even if it’s just to the basement…lol)

    ” I have no male friends where I live now (agree this is a big problem).”

    this is tough (i’m right there with you too…) the FI is constantly pushing on us to NOT have male friends (or to not just hang with them, if we do…)

    re going to a bar to read…you could just go to the library, too. that’s what i did before i ‘moved up’ to just going out ‘solo’ to the bar…it gets you out of the house, and gives you some place to be, while retraining your brain (that you won’t die…lol) that it’s ok for you to spend time on YOU…

    “Tell you what, I’ll watch all of the youtube videos bluepillprofessor has linked from his site, ”

    he has video?…got any links?…bc i really would watch that…

    “I’m just at a point right now where the LAST thing I need to hear is “you really do have to be comforting too” because I’m already far too comforting and she can just use my past comforting behavior for reassurance. ”

    this is a good strategy overall, but i just want to point out that those prior ‘comforts’ are hurting you bc of her ‘expectations’…but ALSO that they won’t actually provide current comfort for her, so you should just be aware that at some point in the future you WILL have to go there and provide some…BUT, it won’t be until AFTER the ‘main event’ (when she finally submits to your frame)…bc up until that point, any ‘comfort seeking’ is just a shit test…that’s just a structural reality of being caught in beta marriage…she doesn’t need loyalty testing until she submits…

    “She doesn’t like that I drink, so in my view it would be beta (or omega) to stop doing something I want to do because of how she feels like it.”

    good instincts…see you’re getting better at this every day…lol…her ‘not liking that’ is a shit test…bc if you were alpha, she would be buying you booze to try…lol…

    “This is just “ditch the omega for beta.” No, I want to ditch the beta and omega for alpha.”

    fly little birdy…FLY…lol…

    you really ARE doing great…keep it up…

    “I’ve read that before and I don’t necessarily disagree, but FOR SURE I want to give it the full six months of alpha before I even consider bringing back the beta. ”

    this won’t be an issue until after the main event…

    “As I mentioned earlier, she has YEARS of experience seeing me as alpha, so it won’t be as great of a shock to her system as if she married me as a nice boring beta provider in her epiphany phase. It would be more like “oh fuck the old Dutchman is back!” It wouldn’t be the new me, it would be the old me.”

    then just get back to it…lol…

    fly little birdy…FLY!!!!….(note the 4!!!! exclamation points…lol)

    “She’s actually been texting me a lot today asking for guidance on how to handle some situation and LOOKING for leadership and following my advice. Pretty cool.”

    great job!…tell her to put on something cute for you, for when you get home…you know as a compliance test…just to check on your progress…

    good luck!

    _____________
    @Andy

    “I have the same problem. If I have the excuse that I’m going with someone else I have no problem just leaving and hitting the bar. But if I’m by myself… I can’t bring myself to do it. Some major FI programmed guilt thing. I wouldn’t read a book though.”

    soooo, you know you have to just do it, right? bc that’s a great way to confront that limiting self-belief…(presumably you WANT to go and do that, and not just bc you think you SHOULD…)

    you’re right, it’s FI induced…bc it’s part of your mental point of origin…currently, you don’t have ‘permission’ to go and do that, bc it’s not going to benefit anyone but you…

    ditto on using the library as a way point to the bar…

    good luck!
    _____________
    @kfg

    thanks for that book link…it looks interesting…

    “Temperance is a feminine imperative initiative. ”

    i agree…but not drinking is still good for you…lol…

    also, i’m seeing something similar to burden of performance issues in this example…does that seem right?…

    good luck!
    _____________
    @Anonymous Reader

    “You and 20 million other men. One of the traps that men fall into is the “wife AND best friend” pit.”

    FI in play…keep your friends close and your enemies closer…lol…

    “It’s not what you are doing per se, but why are you doing it.”

    +1…and not just about drinking…

    good luck!

  45. Newly… well done sir, well done indeed. Please by all means post at least the audio of the convo when you tell your wife… LOL

  46. @Sentient, well, I’ve had two great months of calmness and frame, but I beta-slid this week (hold up in a snow covered house for a few days with a micro-managing wife and bickering kids that made me lose my cool). So I had to admit I should not have raised my voice in front of the kids but that she needs to stop the micro-managing of pointless little shit that doesn’t matter. She had “the look” on her face that I know so well, the look that my concerns are baseless and ridiculous and she was about to walk away. At that point, I decided to do a 180 and tell her about the secret tape of her saying she’d leave me if not for the kids. Yeah, I consider that a beta move, but a necessary one to humble her high-horse a bit and instill some dread. She didn’t see that coming, and I basically told her, “Look, it probably isn’t gonna work between us, so let’s just try to be polite to each other until the time comes.” She didn’t say, “I didn’t mean it; I was just mad,” or, “Sorry for saying that; it was wrong.” But, like Dutchman’s wife, she’s a bit nicer and more concerned about what I’m doing after me revealing that info.

    So, I think I’m going to leave the tape recorder alone for a bit until I can wrap my head around this latest piece of ironic plot twist.

  47. “Vox’s cat scheme involves how men relate to each other in a hierarchy and how their position within THAT structure informs their relationships with girls (who are not part of that structure)”

    Women think that they wear make up to look good for other women, which is true on the surface, but the surface truth is because women are, underneath that, competing with each other for men.

    “…but not drinking is still good for you…”

    Temperance is better for you, but if you can’t be temperate, it’s better to abstain.

    “also, i’m seeing something similar to burden of performance issues in this example…does that seem right?…”

    In the early days of of the temperance movement women were not shy about overtly stating that their objection to alcohol was because it made men less useful as tools and providers.

    Note also that in their early days there was also a temperance movement against coffee houses, for exactly the same reason, even though coffee is a stimulant, not a depressive.

    The real issue is that pubs and coffee houses give men a social setting outside the woman controlled home.

  48. @newly

    “At that point, I decided to do a 180 and tell her about the secret tape of her saying she’d leave me if not for the kids. ”

    secret tape? I guess I missed this part of your story…

    “a necessary one to humble her high-horse a bit ”

    Perhaps introduce her to a snow shovel… LOL Things will be different when I’m a gone…

    “and instill some dread. She didn’t see that coming, and I basically told her, “Look, it probably isn’t gonna work between us, so let’s just try to be polite to each other until the time comes.””

    Dread you say, you have been handed a 100 megaton warhead, another woman is seeking you out explicitly to father her child…. Whoa! By chance is she hotter than your wife? If yes, I’d mention it to her, ina a “well it’s come to this, not enough stud in the world” kind of way. if not, not so much.

    Good luck!

  49. @Sentient, yeah put a recorder in her car during a girls’ day out and called her to do me a favor which we argued about. When she got off the phone, the recorder caught her saying if not for the kids, she’d live my fucking ass. These last two months have been awesome, so I wasn’t going to reveal anything about the tape.

    Wife is jealous as fuck of her. Built like a brick house.
    How would you go about such a nuke drop? My wife is stubborn as fuck though, so I could see her saying go ahead and do whatever the fuck you want.

  50. @kfg

    10 pages!!!…lol…

    “Temperance is better for you, but if you can’t be temperate, it’s better to abstain.’

    i agree with this…

    i guess i was looking for some insight on the ‘burden of performance’ stuff…bc it really doesn’t make sense to me, but i can see ‘something’ there… that i’m just not getting…lol…

    and i didn’t know that about the coffee shops but it makes complete sense…

    good luck!

  51. Perhaps you are looking for more subtlety than is actually there. The root statement of the burden of performance is simply: If you don’t work, you die.

  52. @Habd

    Hey, we agree.

    I have no issues with me having a burden of performance.

    And I have no qualms about being a beta provider in an Alpha frame. But that is because I don’t have the fear of burden of performance. I make that hurdle low. (But then again I have “means” so that makes it easier). Shit, building your own self to be a better beta is a foundation for building a better alpha. 89% on a Pareto distribution is better than 20%.

    If a FI shames in the forest and no one hears it…..is it really shaming?

    I don’t disagree that uber Alpha is good. It’s just that until you get there you do have limitations. I don’t disagree that it always be the goal.

    Your assertions that Bluepillprofessor is purple pill as a premise does not hold up to my assessment.

    I would lay claim to the assertion that Bluepillprofessor, myself and even Rollo for that matter don’t mind being greater beta, lesser alpha because of the wonderful low stress thing that is a good marriage for a man with excellent children that we raised with their mother.

    Chivalry low stress marriage for a man is largely dead, and feminism is the murderer. It soured both males and females on the joy, awe, wonder, excitement, thrill, satisfaction from, and mystery of femininity and masculinity.The war between the sexes is today and all-out war.Spouses more likely suffer from behavior that resembles sibling rivalry where there is competition for resources and power versus “giving” and “sleeping with the enemy” where men are the “evil empire” and women are self-centered, complaining, and demanding bitches rather than two folks who thank God every day for their blessing of their marital partner and the opportunity to live for something other and outside of themselves. (Dr. Laura)

    Yeah, how purple pill non alpha masculine is that? Fact is: if indeed a man has a high quality wife (better than any other woman he comes across), and she “does it” for him, then what is the problem? If I wanted higher stress and lower returns I would get a low quality wife or become a single man PUA (good pussy no doubt, but certainly with stress and the highest burden of performance possible for a man that needs to concentrate on five other dimensions of their life (profession, children, home and community and extracurricular high level hobbies and adventure pursuits). And NO!, that is not an advertisement for getting married or going the easy route in life or settling. I’m talking about staying married with a good woman after 15 to 25 years only. Nothing wrong with the greater beta, lesser alpha in my book. As long as a man is getting laid like tile, that is. And this is BluePillProfessor’s paradigm also. Call it purple pill if you want. I call it good.

    And you casually dismissed getting rid of Omega behaviors as doing it for her. You do it for you. That was my biggest gain is giving up non-temperate drinking. (For the record, I don’t think I have revealed this before here. I did go back to drinking and am now Temperate. I gave it up for 3 1/3 months last year to give myself a reboot. And it worked. I am back to temperate drinking. And have that control I didn’t before.

    Just so you know I have lots of Asperger’s traits. By choice without the developmental or brain glitches as an embryo, developing fetus or in childhood or adolescence.

    And I don’t have any problems with other’s encouraging Dutch. I’m certainly not good at that (Asperger’s traits by choice). But I can give a married man game information. I totally wish the best for Dutchman. We are on the same team. I want our team to win. And I don’t think I am doing anything to hinder that win.

    Habd, you are good on your writings. No problem here. But you really should learn how to block-quote things. It’s one step higher on WordPress skills than italics. …..and then go on to strike-throughs.

    @Andy

    That’s all you got?

  53. @newly…

    How would I go about it… Does your wife know the girl…?

    I’d just say something casual, like when reading the paper on the couch… “hey remember so and so…. got a strange request from her the other day… yeah so she wants to have a kid by me… yeah wants a sperm donation, she’s getting old and I set the high bar… LOL Oh well… good problems to have!”

    and then segue into something benign… “what’s the mileage in your car, Might need to take for an oil change this week” and turn the page…

  54. @Sentient, that’s a good one, but I can see wife blowing that shit up all over FaceFuckBook and having all kinds of people come out of the woodwork and into my business. I’ll have to think about this carefully. Wife knows I want more kids too but is too old, so there’s that to consider too. I have to consider what my dick told me when I heard this proposal too. lol.

  55. @kfg

    “Perhaps you are looking for more subtlety than is actually there. ”

    that wouldn’t be the first time that’s happened…lol

    “The root statement of the burden of performance is simply: If you don’t work, you die.”

    thanks…sort of old school ‘don’t work, don’t eat…’ which i DO understand…THANKS DAD!…lol…

    good luck!

  56. @SJF

    “If I wanted higher stress and lower returns I would get a low quality wife or become a single man PUA (good pussy no doubt, but certainly with stress and the highest burden of performance possible for a man that needs to concentrate on five other dimensions of their life (profession, children, home and community and extracurricular high level hobbies and adventure pursuits). “

    This is more FI SJF… there is no correlation between more stress and pussy (of any stripe), maybe inverse correlation… LOL

    And all the dimensions you list can create virtuous cycle of demonstrable alpha in the Dynamic, Passionate and Authentic vein…

    Really the only limit is in understanding FI and RP completely, understanding game dynamics well enough to execute on them and maintaining frame. well that and target acquisition… LOL.

  57. @newly… well i’d find it hilarious if my wife posted that on FB or something… she’d be boasting right?

    These are the kinds of double binds I do not miss… for many, many years I would do something like this, like deny that some other woman found me attractive for fear of hurting my wife’s feelings and then for it to come out in some other way and she be furious that it was kept a secret…

    No more… it’s not good game. She needs the “pain”… cats not being dogs and all. Plus you are just living an authentic life at that point “yup… bitches be up on my spermzzz…. deal with it.”

    what would be poor game is bottling it up and then blurting it out during a fight…

  58. @Sentient, thing is, what if I actually wanted to go through with it? May want to keep that on the divorce court down-low. We’ll see, but your point of ZFG is well noted.

  59. This is more FI SJF… there is no correlation between more stress and pussy (of any stripe), maybe inverse correlation… LOL

    And all the dimensions you list can create virtuous cycle of demonstrable alpha in the Dynamic, Passionate and Authentic vein…

    Really the only limit is in understanding FI and RP completely, understanding game dynamics well enough to execute on them and maintaining frame. well that and target acquisition… LOL.

    Hey we agree… LOL

    I have no problem with the fact that the FI is there. Or in the fact that understanding FI and RP completely is the goal, and that understanding game dynamics well enough to execute on them and maintain frame is also the goal. I sometimes get the vibe that commenters in this thread believe that my execution and maintaining my frame is not working for me.I’m highly idealistic and I think I’m doing well, and I’m not resting on my laurels. I acquired my target a long time ago and she’s stuck with me. And that is a good thing. And I like it.

    And I got no problem with the fact that others’ mileage may vary. Or that I may give them wrong information. That is what you are here for.

  60. HABD

    Never looked into this “burden of performance” thing… I’m not sure I agree with it as construed as you need to “work” to attract women. But if I run it through the Alpha Triad it basically adds up… so this here –

    “A lot of DHV is unintentional. In fact the best most genuine forms of DHV are exhibited when a Man doesn’t realize he’s actually performing in a way that demonstrate his higher value. This can be as simple as walking int a room in the right context or environment. Even humility can be DHV in the proper context.

    … A woman’s performance standards are dependent on many varied contexts and according to the priorities she places on the type of character she finds both arousing and attractive and according to what her conditions dictate for her.

    It’s not how you perform so much as that you perform. Ambition and personal drive to perform and be the best and most successful you you can be may have absolutely nothing to do with your intention of attracting a woman, but you are still performing and you will be evaluated on that performance.”

    – is in synch with the Triad – be dynamic, passionate and authentic = to exhibit Alpha.

  61. @SJF

    ““If I wanted higher stress and lower returns I would get a low quality wife or become a single man PUA (good pussy no doubt, but certainly with stress and the highest burden of performance possible for a man that needs to concentrate…”

    Well id on’t agree with your statement here… so I don’t think we are agreeing. Unless you aren’t meaning to say that it is higher stress and lower return to have a lower quality wife or be single?

  62. @ Sentient

    It just me, though. It works for me. I’m not telling others what they should shoot for. I’m currently at the lowest stress level I have been in the last 35 years. (And not that the previous stress was a problem.)

    (You could say I’m just saying that shit just to qualify myself to the commenters.)

  63. “… I’m not sure I agree with it as construed as you need to “work” to attract women.”

    Not to attract women, to live. That’s why you can’t escape it.

    KFG Maxim Number Something or Other:

    A man can best evaluate the looks of a woman while she is sleeping. A woman can best evaluate the looks of a man while he is chopping wood.

    He isn’t necessarily chopping wood to attract a woman, he’s chopping wood so he doesn’t freeze to death in the winter.

    And women find that attractive. At root because she doesn’t want to freeze to death in the winter either.

  64. @SJF

    “@Habd

    Hey, we agree.”

    good… bc i really do need to get some work done…lol

    but here’s me being spergy again…lol…

    “Shit, building your own self to be a better beta is a foundation for building a better alpha. 89% on a Pareto distribution is better than 20%. ”

    i know what you are trying to say, but it’s NOT better if you are still in that 89% that’s not getting sexed up (bc they have no game/don’t even understand the problem they face = normal blue pill men – married or not)…and that’s actually WHY i spend so much time on this stuff…bc men that actually want to change really do need accurate info…

    and alpha/beta really do apply to 2 different concepts…sex/repro fitness v. provisioning…

    for a visual, make a 2×2 grid – high/low beta and high/low alpha…

    low alpha low beta = omega
    high alpha low beta = playah…lol
    low alpha high beta = beta provider/orbiter
    high alpha high beta = alpha provider (this is actually the goal for a great marriage btw…lol)

    but to get ‘laid like tile’ all you really need is high alpha (= high sexual repro fitness)

    “If a FI shames in the forest and no one hears it…..is it really shaming?”

    lol…actually yes…bc the FI really is cunning and pervasive…

    “Your assertions that Bluepillprofessor is purple pill as a premise does not hold up to my assessment.”

    in fairness, i just listened to his first couple videos on youtube…and he doesn’t sound blue pillish there…

    “Fact is: if indeed a man has a high quality wife (better than any other woman he comes across), and she “does it” for him, then what is the problem?”

    none, actually…wife googles ROCK!!!!…lol…they’re even better than velcro!!!…lol…

    “And you casually dismissed getting rid of Omega behaviors as doing it for her. You do it for you. ”

    actually my casual dismissal WAS bc the focus of the book seems to be that you would do that ‘for her’…and not for you…here’s the quote:

    “Consider your worst faults and how they turn off your wife. Look at them objectively and you will probably understand why your wife finds it so disgusting.”

    i will ALWAYS advocate for men to ‘self-improve’…regardless of their situ…

    “But you really should learn how to block-quote things. It’s one step higher on WordPress skills than italics. …..and then go on to strike-throughs.”

    you do realize that i can barely tie my own shoes, right?…lol…i thought i was going high tech with that italics stuff…lol…i wouldn’t mind learning the strike-throughs, though…lol…

    “@Andy

    That’s all you got?”

    i don’t think he was engaging you on your subcomms…he just responded to your question literally…lol…

    “I have no problem with the fact that the FI is there. ”

    you should actually…bc the FI is in a zero sum game with the MI…DUAL. SEXUAL. strategies…lol…are you on team MI, or not?…

    “I’m highly idealistic and I think I’m doing well, and I’m not resting on my laurels. I acquired my target a long time ago and she’s stuck with me. And that is a good thing. And I like it.”

    that’s all that really counts = in-field success…

    good luck!

    ________
    @newlyaloof Sentient

    “@newly… well i’d find it hilarious if my wife posted that on FB or something… she’d be boasting right?”

    boasting or not, that’s some big ass DHV right there…lol…

    “what would be poor game is bottling it up and then blurting it out during a fight…”

    +1

    “@Sentient, thing is, what if I actually wanted to go through with it? May want to keep that on the divorce court down-low. We’ll see, but your point of ZFG is well noted.”

    lol…you’re kidding, right?…i mean about keeping it secret…lol…but if you do go through with it…make her buy you dinner first…lol…you can be easy… but not cheap!…lol…

    but before you do actually even consider that, you should figure out how much it will cost you financially…child support ain’t free…lol…and she can’t just ‘waive’ it, regardless of what she says…lol…

    good luck!
    ___________

    @Sentient

    ” I’m not sure I agree with it as construed as you need to “work” to attract women. ”

    that’s not it…bc if it was, i’d know how to deal with it/understand it…lol…bc that’s just straight up FI beta provider shit…lol

    i think it’s probably like kfg indicates. i’m just looking for something that’s not really there (it’s not the first time that’s happened…and likely won’t be the last…lol…) and that always messes with my head…lol…you’d think i’d have a clue by now…lol…

    i’m just going to go with kfg’s “If you don’t work, you die.”…bc i understand that…having been raised with a ‘don’t work, don’t eat’ type father…straight up old school depression era work ethic…

    that means that work just needs to get done (benefit or not to the FI) regardless of whether or not girls will judge you on it , and girls always will judge you anyway…etc…which transitions into a circular reasoning feedback loop…lol…

    i think the biggest problem i’m having with this, is that i’m not separating the benefit to the FI (bc there would be…) from the benefit to me (which is being reinforced by ‘shaming’ as i ‘try to break free’…)…and so i’ve been resisting working on my ‘burden of performance’ bc i’ve internalized that any benefit to the FI (or ‘work’ on behalf of a girl) is a detriment to me/men in general…

    and along with that, i still have internalized limiting self-beliefs (FI induced of course…lol…) that i ‘can’t’ do something if it’s not FOR the benefit of a girl/the FI…so, it’s outside my comfort zone…blah, blah…lol…i just need to work through it…

    but, there’s the conflict in a nut shell…

    what’s really trippy is that i can see this type of bias in everybody else, but it’s really hard to see my own…lol

    good luck!

  65. “i think the biggest problem i’m having with this, is that i’m not separating the benefit to the FI (bc there would be…) from the benefit to me”

    I think my issue is similar. Where does the burden of performance end, and catering to the FI begin? I guess it’s just one of those things that every man has to decide for himself. The trick is when you hide behind your “burden of performance” as an excuse to stay within your comfort zone.

  66. ” . . . i’ve internalized that any benefit to the FI (or ‘work’ on behalf of a girl) is a detriment to me/men in general…”

    The MGTOW Problem. It can’t be resolved, so you might as well stop trying. Like any engineering problem, what you can do is search for the optimization that meets your needs of the moment and wing it from there.

    And sooner or later the Space Invaders(tm) are going to get you, so you might as well stop trying to avoid that as well. You can’t win, only put off losing. So it really is in how you play the game.

  67. @having a bad day

    low alpha low beta = omega
    high alpha low beta = playah…lol
    low alpha high beta = beta provider/orbiter
    high alpha high beta = alpha provider (this is actually the goal for a great marriage btw…lol)
    but to get ‘laid like tile’ all you really need is high alpha (= high sexual repro fitness)

    You are totally mis-representing low alpha/high beta. It is greater beta, lesser alpha. He is alpha but he is greater beta. And you are totally misrepresenting beta as blue pill. It is not. Blue pill is not understanding red pill. Not being red pill aware. IDGAF if I am a provider to a good woman and great children. But once again, my burden of performance is a low hurdle at this juncture in my life. I am not “leaning into” her as a Dean guy charachter in Blue Valentine. I am an independent operator. I’m not wanting to be plugged into the matrix and be fed feelz. I’m Stoic. I have no qualms about my burden of performance or providing for my children. My wife is who I want. Me and her raised our children and they are good little 21 and 24 year olds that are independent operators in this world. I ask nothing of them. Sure I can be all alpha and have that be all I need to get laid like tile. But I have more than getting laid on my list of missions in life. I got 5 dimensions. (And I sure as hell sense that is is not the only mission KFG has on his list of priorities. And I sure as hell sense he is confident in his mission and lives a sublime life. Me too.)

    That is why I spend so much time on this stuff, because men that actually want to change need to know there are 5 dimensions. Not the two of Ayn Rand land. (Sorry for my invocation of Law #44).

    “Consider your worst faults and how they turn off your wife. Look at them objectively and you will probably understand why your wife finds it so disgusting.”

    I was drunk and relatively fat last year. I stopped drinking because I was a fool to think my wife wanted to fuck a fat drunk. So I quit my omega vice of bourbon. And she was more disirous. I did it for me and it worked to up-my-alpha. By decreasing my Omega. See how that works?

    If you use the greater and lesser signs on either side of the word “blockquote” before and include a forward slash after the lesser sign around a quoted piece of text, after, the word “blockquote” it ends up like this:

    i will ALWAYS advocate for men to ‘self-improve’…regardless of their situ…

    And yes, the first part of red pill, often not spelled out in text is: masculine self improvement. It is my modus operandi to push beyond the 89th percentile of greater beta/lesser alph that is more harmonious for marriage to a good woman than 100% Alpha. 100% Alpha is two dimensional.

    The FI won a long time ago. I’m out for a bottoms up approach for me to win more with red pill awareness and Game. I’m adaptable. I don’t rue the fact that the FI is the Matrix because I am out of the Matrix and on my own.

    Hell, I’m self improving in a masculine way in this thread. Spelling things out things in my own inscrutable way.

  68. @Andy

    “The trick is when you hide behind your “burden of performance” as an excuse to stay within your comfort zone.”

    No. The trick is when your burden of performance is a low hurdle and you:

    -Stop Hoping for a Completion of Anything in Life
    -Live With an Open Heart Even If It Hurts
    -Live As If Your Father Were Dead
    -Know Your Real Edge and Don’t Fake it
    -Always Hold To Your Deepest Realization
    -Never Change Your Mind Just to Please a Woman
    -Your Purpose Must Come Before Your Relationship
    -Lean Just Beyond Your Edge
    -Do It for Love
    (The way a man penetrates the world should be the same way he penetrates his woman: not merely for personal gain or pleasure, but to magnify love, openness, and depth. )
    -Enjoy Your Friends’ Criticism
    (A man’s capacity to receive another man’s direct criticism is a measure of his capacity to receive masculine energy. If he doesn’t have a good relationship to masculine energy (e.g., his father), then he will act like a woman and be hurt or defensive rather than make use of other men’s criticism)
    -If You Don’t Know Your Purpose, Discover It, Now
    (Without a conscious life purpose a man is totally lost, drifting, adapting to events rather than creating events. Without knowing his life purpose a man lives a weakened, impotent existence, perhaps eventually becoming even sexually impotent, or prone to mechanical and disinterested sex. )
    -Be Willing to Change Everything in Your Life
    (A man must be prepared to give 100% to his purpose, fulfill his karma or dissolve it, and then let go of that specific form of living. He must be capable of not knowing what to do with his life, entering a period of unknowingness and waiting for a vision or a new form of purpose to emerge. These cycles of strong specific action followed by periods of not knowing what the hell is going on are natural for a man who is shed- ding layers of karma in his relaxation into truth. )
    -Don’t Use Your Family As an Excuse
    (If a man never discovers his deepest purpose, or if he permanently com- promises it and uses his family as an excuse for doing so, then his core becomes weakened and he loses depth and presence. His woman loses trust and sexual polarity with him, even though he may be putting much energy into parenting their children and doing the housework. A man should, of course, be a full participant in caring for children and the household. But if he gives up his deepest purpose to do so, ultimately, everyone suffers. )
    -Don’t Get Lost in Tasks and Duties
    (Whatever the specifics of a man’s purpose, he must always refresh the transcendental element of his life through regular meditation and retreat. A man should never get lost in the details of his life and forget that, ul- timately and in truth, life amounts to nothing other than what is the deepest truth of this present moment. Tasks don’t get a man anywhere more conscious or free than he is capable of being in this present moment.)
    -Stop Hoping for Your Woman to Get Easier
    (A woman often seems to test her man’s capacity to remain unperturbed in his truth and purpose. She tests him to feel his freedom and depth of love, to know that he is trustable. Her tests may come in the form of complaining, challenging him, changing her mind, doubting him, dis- tracting him, or even undermining his purpose in a subtle or not so subtle way. A man should never think his woman’s testing is going to end and his life will get easier. Rather, he should appreciate that she does these things to feel his strength, integrity, and openness. Her desire is for his deepest truth and love. As he grows, so will her testing.)
    Deida, TWSM, Part One, A Man’s Way.

  69. The burden of performance ends when you are no longer able to perform. Or you die. Whichever comes first, your mileage may vary.

    Okay, forget about the FI in regards to your burden. Not a factor, unless you choose to perform by someone else’s metrics.

    A man has to ” do something ” to be considered a ” man “. This is not according to the FI unless you happen to look to it for direction. *hint* Mistake to do so.

    Besides having to work to earn a living and keep yourself in reasonable shape, a man has to develop skillsets. Gotta know how to do some shit. This is what keeps society and civilization afloat. Burden of performance right there. No FI in sight.

    Now, if a man decides he likes pussy, and would like to have some, he must know the best ways to acquire it. Burden. Very few women are just walking up to guys and offering a piece of ass. But for sure, if a man has been following the above outlined steps, he’s halfway there to pussyland.

    But what if you want more? You will increase your burden to satisfy your wants. Want a wife? Burden increases because you have decided to take on Responsibility. The FI says your wife is an equal partner. Nope, not true. Your burden is to assume head of the family/household.

    You want kids? Burden. You’ve taken responsibility for raising them and disciplining them and making sure they do not starve to death or become raging assholes. FI still no where in site if you do this correctly.

    Decide to buy a nice home? Send the kids off to college? Have 2 cars?
    Burden, burden, burden.

    ” Burden ” sounds ominous. It’s not necessarily that. Burden is figuring out what you want, then doing what you have to do to get it.

    Burden is figuring a way out of difficulty. Burden is problem solving. Burden is self improvement.

    Stagnation for men is not optimal.

    I do not ” do things ” for my family per se, but my family benefits from what I do. Perspective here.

    Want to bang hotties? BURDEN. Lol….. It’s like the dog that chases cars and finally catches one. You gotta know what to do with your target when you get it. Burden of sexual performance mates.

    Without burden or stressors, a man is basically a chick with a dick. We’d have to fill our lives with gossip and emotional turmoil and social networking in order to have something to do. We’d have to invent bullshit problems not to be solved, but to be talked about ad naseum.

    No one comes to the rescue of a man who won’t try to do things for himself, once you become full grown. A sense of purpose is just that. It is not rooted in others, but others may share in the windfalls.

    There is very little comfort in the burden, but there can be satisfaction in the accomplishment that results.

    Oh, and never work for a ” girl ” unless you’re her father. You are ” shame proof ” in your burden. Other’s opines do not matter. Mental Point of Origin fellas. MP motherfuckin’ O.

  70. Blaximus, you son of a bitch.

    Some of your best masculine red pill shit, ever. I love you man.

    Thanks for that. I certainly resonate with that. And you beat the blue pill stuffing out of the stupidity that there is beta in the masculine burden of performance. Or in provider-ship.

    That there is Alpha Oak All the Way Down!

  71. Blax
    Without burden or stressors, a man is basically a chick with a dick. We’d have to fill our lives with gossip and emotional turmoil and social networking in order to have something to do. We’d have to invent bullshit problems not to be solved, but to be talked about ad naseum.

    So we’d turn into hipster SJW’s?

  72. Sigh.

    I’m going to do something that is totally unconventional. In order to knock some order into this whole thread. My apologies to BluePillProfessor if he minds that I quote a whole fucking chapter of his book in order for you guys to shut the fuck up about it being anything other that the best red pill distillation ever for married man game.

    First, go and purchase this book. BluePillProfessor did a great job and spent endless amount of time on it. And it is great.

    http://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BGZO1WK/ref=rdr_kindle_ext_tmb

    Second, see if this whole chapter excerpt resonates with red pill. Not blue or purple pill. And so fucking what if it you can define it as purple. It does not matter. You need sex! With your wife.

    No Blockquotes here, it needs all the borders it can get to not go on too long, which it does anyways. No TL;DR here it is great writing you need to read.

    And sure, you can criticize it for being just basic red pill for men as a foundation to strive for higher Game, but shit, it would take some guys forever to have this clear narrative in their head. Here is a clear, basic narrative.Yes, we all read all of the Rational Male. Yes, married men get Betatized by the FI. Yes we all need practical advice. Here it is in a nutshell. Good luck indeed.

    Single men or PUA single men prepared to be bored, this is “married man in a fog” must read. Fasten your seat belt Dutchman.

    Chapter 4: Female Attraction Triggers

    “There is something that you have to admit to yourself before we go any further and it is not going to be easy. You need to admit to yourself that the reason your wife is not having sex with you is because she has lost sexual attraction for you. Yes dude, this is part of the Red Pill thing, and this is one of those little truths that make it so bitter. Except there is freedom in truth! There is a way forward!

    The truth is that the most likely reason your wife is withholding sex is that she is not attracted to you anymore. Of course you already knew that, didn’t you? She doesn’t want to have sex with you because she doesn’t find you attractive. I know it sucks but don’t blame her! Sexual attraction is not a choice. If you are not showing her behaviors and attitudes that are attractive to women (aka enough “Alpha”), it is impossible for her to be attracted to you. The good news is you can change that by adding attractive behaviors and deleting unattractive behaviors. Start activating the attraction triggers, by getting in shape, stepping up and responding to her tests, being the man, and ultimately showing her covertly that you are your own man who has options. She needs to see this for herself. You cannot simply throw a tantrum and demand that she respect your manliness. Hopefully you realize that by definition, that would not be manly.

    You are no doubt eager for me to just spill out these mysterious attraction triggers but first we need to take in the view from orbit so I once again direct you to Evolutionary Psychology and the central truth:

    We are attracted to the features in the opposite sex that are correlated with making and raising babies. [97]

    The Attraction Triggers in men are well known: A thin waist, large breasts, and an hourglass figure are features that clearly advertise fertility in females and are virtually universally desired physical features of women by men across all known cultures. Men know what they want.

    However, the Attraction Triggers in women are not as well known, because women do NOT know what they want and because, frankly, they lie about what actually attracts them. This lying is likely part of their evolutionary program. If they really KNEW what they want, then they might let it slip, and then any pretender could come along and just act out the script she prescribed. Natural selection, therefore, would tend to favor any behavior which concealed from both men AND women the true nature of female attraction. This has certainly been an effective tactic for the feminine imperative and female sexual strategy. For thousands of years since the dawn of human history, mankind has struggled with this question, and today, I believe that beyond any doubt the Manosphere has largely figured it out. Brace yourselves because the answer could rock your world.

    As I’ve said, for a lot of guys, it is almost like waking up from the Matrix.

    First, understand that women are NOT attracted to the same things as men. True they are attracted to a mate that is fertile and in good health. That is basic evo-psych. However, women are ALSO attracted to specific behavioral and attitudinal characteristics. In particular, women are sexually attracted (at least initially) to a person with provider characteristics, but ONLY insofar as the provider characteristics ALSO mark him as a high value man able to provide and care for offspring. More on that in a bit.

    In the Manosphere this dual attraction to the hot guy and to the provider is known (not so) affectionately as “Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks” and in the meager but persuasive psychology literature on the topic: The female “Dual Mating Strategy.” Basically, women want it all- a hot guy to fuck her hard who is independent but committed, strong but sensitive, and who tenderly loves her for who she is and cuddles sweetly, but throws her around and treats her like a piece of meat in bed. In a word, women want “Fried-Ice.”

    The trick that makes their impossible demands so much easier is that women want both Alpha and Beta, BUT at different stages of their menstrual cycle. Women want a strong, masculine, square jawed, muscular, tall, fiercely independent and confident man to impregnate them (Alpha Fucks) – especially during their fertile period (Days 11-18) in their monthly cycle. However, during much of the rest of the month they prefer a more kind, thoughtful and helpful man who makes a good living and makes them comfortable. In short, they want Alpha fucks the week they ovulate and more or less prefer Beta Bucks for the rest of the cycle.[98]

    Of course this is a generalization and women vary considerably across the spectrum. Some women turn into feral bitches in heat during their peak ovulation time while with others the effect is barely noticeable. Some interpret the ovulation time and the accompanying burst of energy as a signal to become hostile, rude and bitchy especially if she is not getting her desire for a hard Alpha pounding satisfied. There is no doubt women Shit Test more fiercely during ovulation time than any other, and this is an opportunity for you to gain significant points by passing them! Understand, she is acting like that because over millions of years, the women who acted like that when they were ovulating were more likely to be impregnated by a healthy man who could defend his offspring.

    When you think of it like that it certainly puts the Shit Testing in an entirely new light! A woman often employs Shit Testing, especially during ovulation, as a form of sexual flirting and banter. So, if your wife is Shit Testing you and is unpleasant and nasty during her ovulation time then…congratulations! We can work with that. Pay attention, have fun with it, don’t give in to her emotions (aka “hold Frame”) and wait it out. You might be pleasantly surprised.

    The rest of the monthly cycle (other than ovulation) features a highly variable array of attraction cues. In general this is when they tend to make goo goo eyes at the Beta who makes a good living or the guy who is “nice,” but it is also the time when they are less interested in sexual activity altogether. Of course during the peak “Beta time” which is also known as “Shark Week” many couples completely refrain from any sex whatsoever.
    An understanding of “Monthly Cycle Game” helps you see the trap that results in a low sex marriage.

    –She TELLS you she wants a nice guy who will omit his heart and emotions to her while holding her sweetly in his arms.
    –It is LOGICAL that your adoring wife would respond to you favorably when you tell her your hopes, dreams and feelings, and when you hold her and reassure her that it is going to be all right.
    –She RESPONDS to your kindness and solicitation most of the time, sometimes even by having sex with you so it must be working!
    –You LEARN the way to her heart is by being vulnerable, considerate, polite and sweet.

    The problem is that just as the way to a man’s heart is to be sweet and keep his stomach full and his balls empty, the way to a woman’s heart is to be strong and make her comfortable with you but keep her off guard enough so her v vagina stays wet. If what you are doing by being emotional and solicitous is not activating her vagina tingles- and it isn’t- then you may be comforting her, but you are not reaching her heart. You know- her real heart is that throbbing little slippery drippy organ right? Sorry to present it so crudely but it’s the truth. You know how much men are controlled by their “little head” so now all you gotta do is read between the lines and see where women’s desires lie.

    Tingles Uber Alles.[99]

    You listened to what she said and thought it made sense. Then you noticed there was evidence that she really does want her man to be an openly vulnerable emotional “nice” guy who listens patiently to her problems. She probably even threw some sex at you and tried to be nicer and sweeter to you. So you think, “I can relax and stop being a dominant, assertive man. She likes it when I am not acting dominant and assertive!” You respond by adjusting your behaviors and attitudes to be LESS dominant and assertive and more of a nice, emotionally vulnerable, considerate, polite and sweet man. You also adjusted your behaviors and attitudes to be MORE of a provider and supporter of the family and LESS of the cave man lover who fucks his woman senseless every chance he gets.

    Of course, social conventions encourage this. Do you treat a slut different than a wife? Do you use your wife’s mouth the same way now before it was used to kiss your children good night? That hot, frantic sex between strangers must become the sweet, innocent “love” of marriage, right? You know, the “love” that means you “cuddle,” but don’t have sex very much. Sure it does, that’s what all the women tell us. That’s what the newspapers and the writers all tell us, so it must be true.

    Basically, a relationship with a woman is a Jedi-Mind fuck designed to trick you. In our society, with no support for men and massive amounts of terrible and consistently deceptive sexual advice given to men the effect is multiplied many times. By providing massive levels of cunning and manipulative advice to women designed to magnify the “Beta-ization Effect” the results are toxic. Given all this, it is not surprising that marriage often turns men from the strong, confident “Alpha Fuck” god into the emotionally needy and hardworking “Beta Buck” provider.

    This makes perfect sense from an evolutionary perspective. A woman who could “capture” an Alpha with strong genes and then “trick” him into becoming less attractive so he would not leave her would be more likely to have children with the best chance to survive. The children would have “Alpha” genes and a “Beta” provider to care for them.

    The problem with the analysis that you made about whether your wife “likes” it when you are more Beta, was that that you ignored the rest of the evidence. Yes, she “likes” it when you are kind, supportive and sweet. Yes, she may throw a sex bone at you. However, have you considered whether she is doing that in order to reward her “nice” obedient little boy, or whether she is really overcome with passion? Context makes a difference. If you go back, I will bet those sexual encounters were “sweet” but not very “passionate.”

    You can be her lover or her child. Pick one.

    You were probably so wrapped up in the warm fuzzies that you didn’t notice the difference between “duty sex” and the frantic Alpha fucking you were getting in the beginning and before long, ALL of it was “duty sex.” The bottom line is that you changed your behaviors and attitudes- by getting “comfortable” with your woman- and this removed the raw animal magnetism and mystery needed to maintain attraction.

    Let’s work on getting it back. We already started to work on increasing your Alpha attraction by responding to Shit Tests. Now we are going to add to the “Alpha-ization Effect” by identifying more sexual cues. Here are ten attraction trigger most of you can use to help restore attraction.
    Bear in mind that many importantattraction triggers have been largely taken away by modern society. The constant fear of getting eaten by a monster would have been a pretty strong incentive to be pleasant and to keep your Beta provider satisfied in times past. On top of that, you yourself can’t be a full on “Beta” when there are monsters to kill! If you were then your genes would CERTAINLY not have propagated. So, while the list of attraction triggers a man can activate is increasingly restricted by social convention, there are still a few gems in the rough.

    Before we get into them in detail, I’ll list them here:

    Get in shape
    Be more confident
    Provide physical protection
    Be the leader for your wife, and the relationship
    Provide positive emotional support (don’t be an emotional tampon)
    Give her strong emotions
    Control her emotional storms
    Be unfazed by her beauty
    Be mysterious and aloof
    Show her covertly that you have other options

    Fortunately, the number one way to restore attraction is to get in shape and lift heavy weights. This is still one of the easiest and most effective ways to restore attraction and it works on many levels. Lifting heavy weights is enormously helpful in giving you an “Alpha Fucks” look. By lifting heavy weights, you become more muscular, strong and masculine. You increase your testosterone. To every guy reading this: you can change your look, and your behaviors, and make yourself into a genuine “Alpha Fuck” for your wife- or for somebody better. Motivating you to do exactly that is a large part of this book.

    Remember, you don’t have to look like Arnold Schwarzenegger but looking just a little bit less like an average frustrated dad-bod is going to help you more than you can appreciate now. “I’ll be back” to this point later, so for now, what you need to do is “relax, you’ll live longer.” Go Lift! “Get your ass to” the gym. Take those bad guys off a cliff and “let them go.” “We’ll see you at the party, later.” “Pumping Iron” means you start killing it today! “Hasta La vista.” [100]

    Next up, let’s do something about your level of confidence. Women are attracted to menwho are confident. They want men who are not wishy-washy and who make decisions because they know what they are doing. So long as it does not include rank incompetence, women are also attracted to men who merely ACT confident. One aphorism the Pickup Artists gave us bears repeating:

    Fake it until you make it.

    You don’t have to be sure of yourself in everything, you just have to ACT like you are sure of yourself and that is good enough. After a while of faking it, you build your confidence enough to make it and soon enough, it is no longer an act. Start by simply making more decisions and sticking to your guns. Decide where you are going to eat, when you are leaving the party, and when you are going to bed at night. Stop waiting for your wife to make the decisions and take the lead.

    Now that you are strong and confident, you can focus on providing physical protection which is the traditional way to get a mate and keep her interested in you till death do you part. For better or for worse, the entire physical protection racket has been reduced by modern society to killing spiders and if you can’t do even do that then this is where you start.
    I think the apparent increasing attraction of women for “bad guys” is interesting. This is happening at the same time we have an increasing lack of need for physical protection and a large absence of men able or willing to provide physical protection. So what do “Bad Guys” provide? DANGER! EXCITEMENT! THRILLS! [101]He makes women FEEL like they need to be physically protected, and he lets them be “Bad” (like they really want but won’t admit).

    One of the best ways to simulate this feeling for a woman is by lifting weights and then screwing her good and hard like a cave man. If you can manhandle her in bed, and she is able to feel the change in your muscles as you pound her, it is an incredible aphrodisiac for which most likely arises from the instinctive need she has for a man to physically protect her.

    You can also stimulate this feeling and flip this attraction trigger in nonsexual ways. To start, try putting your arm around your wife protectively in public, especially when you are walking near traffic. Start holding her hand and walking in front of her. Try putting a supportive hand on her
    shoulder or lower back as you walk into a store. Do you notice the differences between the behavior of the “Alpha Man” and the behavior of the little boy holding his mommies hand? Don’t be the little boy! Take charge of the security of your family. Take an interest in the security of your home. Get a Concealed Pistol Permit. Make an emergency plan and stock up on 30 days of supplies and water. Take a self-defense class. Learn Karate or another martial art. Join the National Guard. Become a volunteer fireman. Pay attention in public and protect your wife and family from potential threats by surreptitiously interposing yourself between them. Start being her refuge where she can feel safe and protected in your arms.

    Next up, lead your wife and the relationship. Don’t just be the “Beta” provider who drops his paycheck at the throne of the Queen. Be involved in the finances and the bills. Start making some good, informed decisions! I think it is fine to delegate tasks like paying the bills (although others disagree very strongly), but you still have to keep on top of them. Decide more often where you are going to eat where everybody will be happy. Plan the vacation and take charge of some tasks. There are an infinite number of ways to lead, but don’t forget that sometimes the best “leader” knows when to follow. Once again, don’t start “leading” all of the time. Lead on a single issue once a day at first, then twice a day and so on. Go slowly on leadership. A good leader doesn’t assume a position of authority and demand his followers just follow. A good leader makes GOOD decisions, trusts his subordinates, and waits until he has all the facts meticulously researched before acting, and never lets himself become paralyzed by indecision. People follow a good leader NOT because he demands it but because he is a good leader that people WANT to follow, because they recognize that their lives are a bit easier if they allow him to carry the weight of decision making.

    Start to provide positive emotional support (and don’t be a bitch). This is in addition to the entire “Beta Bucks” material provisioning racket. None of this gets her wet, but it does provide necessary comfort for a relationship. This is what we mean by a “Positive Frame” which is discussed later. If you were a positive, fun loving, upbeat, successful guy who sees the good in everything, you would probably not be reading this book. If youwalked into a room and everybody waves and smiles because you always bring the good times, you would probably not be reading this book. So work on it! This is a battle that lasts an entire lifetime, and you don’t need to be perfect. You just need to be better, and to get good at getting better.

    At a minimum you need to avoid complaining about yourself or your problems to your wife, even if it is a legitimate medical pain. There is an old saying that a man cares little for a woman’s feelings if he is not prepared to lie to protect them. Obviously this does not mean hiding a legitimate medical complaint, but even then you go to the doctor. You don’t complain about a known medical condition to your wife! Not if you want to have sex with her. You are the MAN! Complain to your buddies, complain to your mommy. Don’t complain to your wife. Let me repeat it: She can be your lover or your mommy- pick one.

    In addition to supporting the emotions she churns up herself, learn to give her strong emotions. Make her laugh or provide drama, or jealousy, or even anger, depending on your “Frame.” This is discussed in Chapter 11: “On Emotion,” and there is a dark side because this is the source of all those “abusive” relationships where the woman keeps going back to her abuser. Even non-red pill feminists are finally accepting this. I went to an academic seminar on relationship violence and the speaker openly admitted that women get addicted to strong emotions and this is why they stay with abusive men.[102] In my mind, this is really dark knowledge, but it is absolute truth that the worst thing you can do with a woman is bore her. You can torture some women and even convince her to kill her children in extreme cases, and some of them will return to you licking your hand like a dog. But if you bore her, the result is ALWAYS the same. She cuts off the sex, though she may not leave you, and she may not file for divorce. However, she will always cut off the sex and drip feed it to the bare minimum to keep you around.

    In order to give a woman strong emotions, you must be an interesting man with options, places to go, and people to see. You must be able to say “no” to her requests some of the time. Sometimes during sex, you need to pull her hair or slap her ass or choke her or grab the back of her neck and shove her face into the bed hard enough to make her yell and grunt. You need to physically and sexually dominate her in bed, at least some of the time. Sometimes in private you need to (metaphorically, of course!!) push her down and make her cry, and then take her in your arms and calm the hurt fee fees. You need to get to a point where you routinely tease her like she is a bratty little girl, especially when she whines or complains.

    So, by now you are supportive of her emotions where appropriate, and feeding her some new ones here and there to keep things interesting. From time to time though, the skill you need to master will be to control her emotional storms. Be her oak tree[103] and her rock and help her settle down. Take her into your arms with not a thought of immediate sex and listen to her complain until she starts going in circles. Don’t suggest solutions, keep warm and non-threatening eye contact and just let her vent. Once she starts going in circles, it is time to redirect and stop her from talking or thinking about it any longer. “Shhh, you are going in circles sweetie. Let’s talk about happy thoughts.” Then give her a piece of chocolate.

    Of course, if you could pull THAT off without her completely losing her shit, then you probably would not be reading this book. It’s OK, we’ll work on it and we will get to that point.

    Getting caught up in her emotional storm is one of the worst things you can do to a woman. If you can be her support system and take charge of her emotional volatility, this will definitely make her want to have sex with you. Not right away, of course. That would be far too honest for women, but over time, it will accumulate. This is not the nonsense about “filling her love bucket every day” and “making deposits to your love account” in order to recharge a woman’s sexual batteries. [104] This advice is always recommended (along with “communication”), but it almost never works in a low sex marriage. Acts of “love” are great. Really! Except they do not make a woman horny. She may appreciate it, but she can’t make her v vagina flood with juices when she sees you do the dishes because it just doesn’t work like that.

    Taking control of her emotions does not make her horny either—at least not right away. However, unlike the date night/buy her flowers advice, over time when you are the steady hand that helps calm her emotions, this will most definitely make her more likely to sleep with you. The reports
    are overwhelming on this point, and I would say there is no doubt about it. The dead plants and high carb chocolates we give on Sweetest Day are just poor symbols of the emotional security and stability that women really want. You can give this to her much more effectively and make it a “Tingle Generating Effect” by being a man who stabilizes her emotions instead of just providing worthless tokens of affection.

    Further, continuing to provide those tokens of affection, as recommended by mainstream marriage counseling, when you are not generating tingles for your women, makes the problem even worse. It frames you as lower value, so the sexual attraction and tingles decrease even more. This is one of the many reasons why marriage counseling doesn’t work.

    The evidence is in on the issue of controlling her emotional storms. In every case of a “high sex marriage” the man is in control of his wife’s emotions, and he knows how to calm her down while remaining unfazed by her emotionally unreasonable behaviors. Conversely, in many, probably most, cases of LOW sex marriages, the man fails Shit Tests and gets caught up in her monthly emotional adventure ride. Men in low sex marriages do NOT control her emotional storms. The reports of men are in high agreement on both of those points. Read up on “Frame” for more on how to accomplish this, but you can start by…

    Control your lust and be unfazed by her beauty. While it is true that women want a man doting on them, when he does she quickly readjusts her thinking about his value as a man, and she always readjusts it as him being LESS valuable. No matter how horny you get or how like a Goddess your wife might be, if you build her up above you, your life will be a continual festival of pain and denial. She will lose attraction to any man who puts her on a pedestal. Don’t do it! If you put her above you then she will look down on you.

    If this is a problem, work on developing your “Negs,” which are discussed in more detail in the Chapter on “Game.” Like all of Dread Game, “Negs” have a very bad reputation, but the art of insulting a woman in the guise of a complement is very seductive. Use it in measured amounts, and create the perfect “backhanded complements for every occasion.” Suggest that sex with your wife is “some of the best” you have ever had with anybody Tell her she “still” looks good in that dress. You know you got it right when she gets that surprised, stunned look and then opens her mouth like a fish gasping for air. In most cases you get bonus points if she calls you an asshole, but try to avoid making her cry or embarrassing her in public. Know where the line is, and dance right up to it without crossing it. We will talk more about “Negs” a bit later.

    By now, you’ve really got her emotions spinning. If you were not doing these things before, or were not doing them properly, she’s definitely going to be aware of the changes you are making. It’s time to be mysterious and aloof. If a man is totally focused on his woman, she may appreciate and encourage it, but at the same time, her vagina will dry up like a sandbox, and she has no idea why she is suddenly so itchy and bitchy. How could it be any other way? A low value man is showing her undue interest. Women who had babies with low value men were not as likely to survive as women who had babies with high value men. She is literally programmed to shut down the advances of a low value man. One of the number one cues of a high value man is they have many options and are not stricken by her beauty. They can walk away any time they want, and she knows it by his actions because he is cool, calm, and aloof. He doesn’t need her. He doesn’t make monuments to her beauty. He is a strong man who is forging his own path.

    The last on my list, and the primary subject of this book is show her covertly that you have other options. If you run out and have an affair and lord it over your long-suffering wife the result is predictable and there can be no faster track to divorce court. However, if you put just the tiniest spark of concern (not “fear” just mild concern) in your wife that you COULD have an affair if you chose, then the result is also predictable. Your wife’s attraction will increase, often quite dramatically the second she realizes that her man is in demand and has other options and is pre-approved by other women. Nothing is more seductive or a more closely guarded secret in modern society.

    Dread in a relationship is supposed to be mild and covert. Dread is not in-your-face and there are many ways to show it. Just going to the gym and getting in shape is often enough. What are you doing when you are gone so much now? Why are you suddenly getting in shape? Is there somebody else? That is Dread and that is as far as you need to go much of the time. Just being a little more absent, a little more unavailable, a little less solicitous creates the idea in the back of her mind that, “maybe something is happening and I need to pay attention.”

    I like to think of it as a “Vagina Alert” because this is the key to the v vaginal Tingles. This mild tug of concern is the key to getting a woman turned on. Just in case you missed it, I just gave you the secret to life, the universe and everything! The Tingles are born in a defensive crouch.[105]
    You’re welcome.

    If you need to take it to the next level, sometimes when you are pursuing a busy life you can put your wife into that defensive crouch and increase the Dread in a slightly more active way. This is extremely aggressive, and you really need to be careful because this can easily provoke a relationship-ending fight. I would put this as part of a much later level of Dread and usually recommend you do not do this until you’ve spent about 6 months at the earlier levels. However, I am mentioning it now because I think some of you can begin sooner to tell innocent stories and to probe your wife, especially if you are more or less “getting along” and happy and the only problem is that she does not desire you in the way you would like. When you are both getting along and happy, feel free to tell your wife a story about your encounters with a pretty woman during the day. Only do this if you have the frame to withstand her counter-attack. The proper response to the jealousy Shit Test, which is easily passed and which often follows (“You were flirting with that girl, weren’t you?”) is easy enough: Take her in your arms while saying something like: “Aww, you look so cute when you are jealous.” Reassure her and then lightly tease her with something like, “Actually, she was flirting with me, but you can hardly blame her, can you?”

    Hopefully, it is obvious that the important point is to avoid using too much Dread and to never forget that the level of “Dread” or “that mild concern that your lover may have other options” has to be at the right level and must be squarely in the “Goldilocks Zone” which is not too much and not too little. It is really quite a narrow range that was previously conceptualized by other authors somewhat differently.

    Athol Kay was one of the first to notice that top dog Alpha Pickup game in marriage works for about 6 months but then leads to a quick divorce.[106] Therefore, a different approach was required to maintain a marriage than the time tested PUA approach to getting laid.

    More on that in a second because I don’t want to get side tracked, so hold that thought while you consider this one:

    Have you noticed that women are NEVER happy?

    Seriously, if you have too much Dread, the woman leaves and runs to her next boyfriend, crying about how her “asshole” husband is cheating on her. If you have too little Dread, the woman becomes frigid and loses sexual interest. This fact—along with their insatiable tendency to Shit Test—has been identified as a feature of the biological wet computers known as “women.” I mean that very seriously: it is NOT a bug, it IS the programming. If you want the program to operate properly, and fuck you whenever you desire, then you need the Dread at the correct level that is precisely calibrated for your woman and your relationship.

    I can’t tell you what that level might be. If your wife is fiercely Shit Testing whenever you throw a little bit of Dread (it might be as simple as telling her you will be home late that night or going to the gym) that is the time to take charge and nuke her unreasonable and unfounded accusations, BUT be sure to provide plenty of support and comfort. This is yet another reason to go slowly and begin with basic self-improvement. If you advance to higher levels of Dread and you don’t increase your level of attraction, you can drive her away very quickly. Conversely, while there are few downsides to going slowly, they are vastly outweighed by the disadvantages. If you fail to advance to higher levels of Dread when you are not getting results from the lower levels, then you will remain in a bad marriage forever, or you will decide to leave before your wife responds. More of the same vs. divorcerape? In most cases, I recommend you go slowly and use this knowledge carefully.

    Men simply do not appreciate the power of Dread in the female mind. They cannot appreciate it. Most men are flabbergasted and appalled at such a counter-intuitive and even devious tactic. They would never even consider employing it and besides, how could it possibly work at all? Many men become extremely dismayed when they hear it. The pattern is fairly familiar. Men spend their lives rejecting Dread. “You asshole players are not going to turn me into a BAD MAN. I am loyal and faithful. I would never cheat. I am not that kind of man. Take your Dread advice away, I need to go rub my wife’s feet- I really think she is going to put out tonight!” Then they finally break, usually from living in a sex desert with a shrill, angry, sexually frustrated, Alpha deprived, shit testing wife. The couple’s sexual love and passion turns into hatred, and they live for several years in growing anger until the divorce.

    Yes, I know, you still have objections and you are right. Dread should not work. Dread does NOT work on men in the same way. Dread should certainly not work on women as a secret formula to make her wet…but it does. That is exactly how it works.

    You can test the theory of Dread or Secondary Selection or Pre-Selection Bias any time you want. Just hire a pretty woman as a wing-girl and take her to the bar.[107] Then sit back and watch the other pretty girls come right up to you and start conversations. Unfortunately for my readers who are not already Pickup Artists, that might be a problem, being married and all. You can hire an escort to sit with you, but I really don’t recommend this for married guys. The amount of female attention you get in that scenario is beyond tempting. Just don’t ask me how I know.

    So, if you can’t do that experiment, and you shouldn’t, just trust me. The experiment has been done many, many times. Guys pose as famous people with an entourage, and women literally line up to give out their phone numbers. They are trembling and obviously aroused because they think they are near somebody who is famous. Go watch the videos if you don’t believe me.[108] Dread works by the same mechanism. You are hacking into the female mind, and it works with almost all women. The bottom line is that when the Dread is credible, it makes women want to have sex. We don’t know exactly why it works, or what parts of the female subconscious it activates, but trust us, Dread is the shiznit.

    I remind you again to KEEP YOUR DREAD SUBTLE AND LOW KEY. You are activating unconscious parts of her mind and she CAN and WILL override her physical reactions if she becomes conscious of them. That means Dread is not in-your-face. If you are direct about how you use Dread, she can get mad and cut you off completely (but secretly she is very likely turned on and if you play your cards right you can find out later). Most of the time, you can defuse a problem by simply providing some comfort and reassurance along with your confidence that everything is good and fine. When you can tell your pouting wife who is jealous because you flirted with the pretty girl: “Of course she wants me, but I want you,” and then hug her tightly, you will know that both of you “won.”

    Apart from increasing female anxiety, Dread does not appear to have many negative effects unless it is overused. Tread lightly, go slowly, and if she gets mad then consider backing off a bit, but do use Amused Mastery whenever possible (stay calm and be the in-control adult while she rages). Don’t fail the shit test no matter how long it lasts.

    Beyond the Evolutionary Psychology explanations, why does Dread work? Rollo Tomassi writes, very persuasively, that good, hot sex is a sweaty, frenetic, anxious affair full of hard pounding, pulse throbbing excitement and anxiety.

    [109] It could be that Dread activates that mechanism by providing some anxiety and excitement. Although we really don’t have any idea why Dread works on women for certain, there are lots of theories. Perhaps women need a bit of mild anxiety to get sexually excited. Perhaps she needs the assurance in her mind that her man is a man of substance with options. Perhaps she needs the competition to get excited. Perhaps she needs the validation that another woman also approves of you before she can relax and get turned on. Perhaps the evolutionary psychologists are right and it is purely secondary selection/preselection bias programmed to make them wet when they get assurance that the man they chose is in demand.
    Whatever the reason, it’s often only when their man is wanted by another women then that the wife usually wants to fuck her man. I am talking here about something not all of you might know or remember very well. I am talking about genuinely fuck, not tenderly and sweetly making make love but about making her so horny she pulls you on top of her for a hard, passionate fucking. This is why we are confident this is not a trick or anything like duty sex either. Actually Dread inspired sex is more akin to “hot makeup sex” than to bored “I don’t want it, but I have to give it up twice a month to stay married” sex.

    The main theory on Dread seems to be that all human beings want what other people have, and that women in particular are especially susceptible to this effect. Further, the theorists argue from Evolutionary Psychology that as the weaker gender, women have evolved to follow the crowd. Therefore, women have a much greater need to get the approval of the “crowd,” and are much more likely to internally accept the judgment of the crowd, especially the judgment of other women about what is a high quality man.
    Think about it! How does a woman tell if a man is a “high quality” man that she should sex up? Sex is all about having healthy babies and raising offspring. Men assess reproductive quality rather directly, I would say. We look at the physical features of women and whether or not we are getting a boner. Women do a lot of that as well— so get your butt to the gym. They look at certain types of men and get wet. Try to understand that women ALSO get wet and thus determine whether they want to have sex based on THE JUDGMENT OF OTHER WOMEN. If a woman’s subconscious mind begins to consider that other women want to have sex with a guy, it is almost as powerful a sexual cue as that guy having a body like Achilles. Probably more powerful. Some of those movies star dudes are nothing special (to say nothing of guys like Ringo Star who had the women screaming and panting) but a lot of marginal looking guys sure are not starved for female attention.

    Now why would that be the case? Either they are all gold digging whores or there is something else entirely going on.

    Well, they are all gold digging whores, but let’s dive into some more Evolutionary Psychology for some insight. However, I caution you to try not to think about the “why” for very long. After we are done, you should try to just accept it for what it is. Lots of guys are tearing their hair out, cursing women, cursing God, cursing evolution over this concept. Seriously, some of those Manospherian posts are so filled with anger and rage, it is really sad. Don’t be one of those guys. It is what it is, but before we leave it for the last time, I will at least tell you why I think so. For almost all of our evolution as humans, women who did not go along with the crowd or stay with the herd because they were adventurous, curious, or disobedient were called “lunch” by any number of large cats and other carnivorous predators. The important point to remember is that these women did not ever get the chance to reproduce. Almost none of the “courageous” women had children who survived. Therefore, our species is almost totally evolved from women who did play it safe because women who were cautious, had the babies that survived. Therefore, we are descended from women who played it safe and followed the directives and inputs from the group.

    At the same time during all those hundreds of thousands of years, most men who did not go along with the crowd and who decided to venture out on their own were also called “lunch” by any number of large predators. However, some of those men survived and were able to return to the group and while it takes a considerable amount of time and resources for a woman to have child, for a man it is quite a bit easier if there are willing females surrounding him. A single man can impregnate many different woman in a very short period of time. Therefore, using pure logic, we must conclude that our species primarily evolved from men who DID NOT play it safe. There is no doubt that a much higher proportion of men who reproduced were strong, fit, and masculine. They were men without fear who had conquered the wilderness by themselves. When they came back to the group they would have riveting stories to tell of adventures, strange sights, and distant lands. Such a man would have been a much sought after commodity by the women who would have lined up to be impregnated by a tall, rugged man with amazing stories and such obviously superior genes. Therefore, we are descended from men who did NOT play it safe and who were rugged, strong, physically and mentally capable, muscular, independent, and adventurous.

    In short, we descended mostly from women with dependent, group following characteristics and mostly from “Alpha” men with independent and strong, masculine characteristics. It has been fairly well established that considerably more women have managed to reproduce than men.[110] That is, considerably more TOP DOG men had children than submissive, in touch with their feelings men. Thus, women are literally programmed in every strand of their DNA, or “designed” if you prefer, to be attracted to a masculine man who is approved by other women.

    That is who they had babies with in the past, and that is who they (consciously or subconsciously) want to have babies with. So in order to “program” this response in women, in order to restore attraction, one of the key tools to use is to instill the mild tug of fear in the back of her mind that you are not necessarily “caught” and you certainly are not helpless. That is all, don’t cheat, don’t sleep around, just lightly let her subconsciously draw the inference that you COULD do those things and you choose not to because you choose to be with your wife.

    Next, we will start to show her that it really is a choice that you have made because you have a good life and her being a part of that life is your choice, while hers is what she needs to do to influence YOUR choice.”

  73. “Okay, forget about the FI in regards to your burden. Not a factor, unless you choose to perform by someone else’s metrics.
    A man has to ” do something ” to be considered a ” man “. This is not according to the FI unless you happen to look to it for direction. *hint* Mistake to do so.”

    @Blax

    Yeah, this all sounds real simple. The problem is that you’re not really taking into account how deep societal programming runs. It affects what we perceive as a “want” or a “need” despite the fact that it may not be necessary at all. Subconsciously looking to the FI for direction. THAT is my problem. Not the burden itself. Deciding if I’m actually doing something for myself, or if I’m doing it because that’s what I’m “supposed” to do. When I say FI, I mean societal programming. Maybe you take it to mean something else.

    “Without burden or stressors, a man is basically a chick with a dick. We’d have to fill our lives with gossip and emotional turmoil and social networking in order to have something to do.”

    Sounds a lot like The Rational Male comment section… Just sayin.

  74. @Blaximus and Andy

    Andy said:

    “I think my issue is similar. Where does the burden of performance end, and catering to the FI begin? I guess it’s just one of those things that every man has to decide for himself. The trick is when you hide behind your “burden of performance” as an excuse to stay within your comfort zone.”

    “Deciding if I’m actually doing something for myself, or if I’m doing it because that’s what I’m “supposed” to do. When I say FI, I mean societal programming. Maybe you take it to mean something else.”

    I read a lot but I haven’t read some old classics suggested at the married red pill reddit (I don’t read that reddit much but occasionally look at it when I’m bored).

    But it seems like the book No More Mr. Nice Guy might be one that can answer Andy’s questions.

    I just started it and came across this:

    ,

    Recovery from the Nice Guy Syndrome isn’t about going from one extreme to another. The process of breaking free from ineffective Nice Guy patterns doesn’t involve becoming “not nice.” Rather, it means becoming “integrated.”

    Being integrated means being able to accept all aspects of one’s self. An integrated man is able to embrace everything that makes him uniquely male: his power, his assertiveness, his courage, and his passion as well as his imperfections, his mistakes, and his dark side.

    An integrated male possesses many of the following attributes:

    ● He has a strong sense of self. He likes himself just as he is.
    ● He takes responsibility for getting his own needs met.
    ● He is comfortable with his masculinity and his sexuality.
    ● He has integrity. He does what is right, not what is expedient.
    ● He is a leader. He is willing to provide for and protect those he cares about.
    ● He is clear, direct, and expressive of his feelings.
    ● He can be nurturing and giving without care-taking or problem-solving. ● He knows how to set boundaries and is not afraid to work through conflict.

    An integrated male doesn’t strive to be perfect or gain the approval of others. Instead he accepts himself just as he is, warts and all. An integrated male accepts that he is perfectly imperfect.

    That sure sounds like Blaximus, the man. And it certainly seems like the Alpha Oak archetype.

    Separately, Andy (and I’m not being judgmental toward you) you might look into this no more Mr. Nice guys stuff. And you also might look into how to deal with narcissism and redirect some of your traits into empathy, while at the same time not have others steal your energy. Or put so much energy into trying to please others. (That sounds paradoxical, I know).

    Check this blog article out and look at strategy #5 (regarding the character Dexter on the showtime series) and click on the links in the #5 Dexter strategy.

    I could be way off base on this Andy. And I’m not trying to dis you, but rather point out things to target for your strategy in the burden-of-performance arena. (and I’ll say Umm, Sorry?….. if none of this applies.)

    http://www.bakadesuyo.com/2016/01/how-to-deal-with-a-narcissist-2/

  75. Ok, Sorry then.

    vain

    adjective
    1. having or showing an excessively high opinion of one’s appearance, abilities, or worth.
    “their flattery made him vain”
    synonyms: conceited, narcissistic, self-loving, in love with oneself, self-admiring, self-regarding, self-obsessed, egocentric, egotistic, egotistical; More

  76. Well my intent is not to label you for nefarious purposes. My intent is to help with self awareness and self improvement. To identify tactics on how to improve upon your strengths and minimize your weaknesses.

    If indeed vanity is part of your character set own it and use it for your advantage. Employ empathy in your social interactions.

    You want to look good to others so do good in your social interactions. Always be adding value.

    Stop trying to stand out, get attention and be so darn special. It’s okay to be ordinary. Act ordinary and do things that benefit other people (starting with your wife and children and move on to your social set).

    And I don’t see how vanity can’t also fit well into healthy aspects of masculinity including strength, discipline, courage, passion, persistence, and integrity.

  77. One of the game changers for me was connecting with other guys about five years ago. Hanging out with guys exclusively at times, just talking over and resonating with like-minded guys, spending time away from my wife or women. Hell even spending time with a masculine bitchy woman neighbor at my farm property in a totally platonic way was good. But she died suddenly recently, and that sucked. She was a good friend in a guy type of way (Her SMV was a WNB3 out of 10).

    (Not much of Nice Guy syndrome in the book has much to do with me personally. As you might have picked up on I’m usually not on nice guy mode. And I put the J in INTJ.)

    (Paging Dutchman)

    From Robert Glover’s book:

    Getting Your Testicles Back

    Avoiding relationships with men and seeking the approval of women prevents Nice Guys from getting what they really want in love and life. In order to reverse the effects of the Nice Guy Syndrome Nice Guys have to reclaim their masculinity. The process involves coming to believe that it really is a good thing to be a man and embracing all of their masculine traits. Reclaiming one’s masculinity involves:

    ● Connecting with other men.
    ● Getting strong.
    ● Finding healthy male role models.
    ● Reexamining one’s relationship with one’s father.

    Connecting With Men Helps Nice Guys Reclaim Their Masculinity

    Connecting with men is essential for reclaiming masculinity. Building relationships with men requires a conscious effort. This process begins with a commitment to develop male friendships. In order to do this, recovering Nice Guys must be willing to make the time, take risks, and be vulnerable. For most Nice Guys, time seems to be a big factor that keeps them disconnected from men. It takes time to talk with a neighbor, call up a friend, or go to a ballgame. Since many Nice Guys are enmeshed with their wives, families, or work, this means taking time away from these things.
    Connecting with men involves doing guy things with guys. There is no right way to do this, but it can include joining a team, going to sporting events, joining a prayer or discussion group, having a poker night, doing volunteer work, going fishing, going for a run, or just hanging out.

    Alan is an example of what can happen when a recovering Nice Guy makes the decision to connect with men. Alan had a difficult time doing things for himself, especially with other men. When he made a conscious effort to begin addressing this issue he had to first take a look at what kept him disconnected from men and what he could do to start changing the pattern.

    One of the first things Alan did was to join a men’s therapy group. Even then, it took more than a year before he began doing things with the men outside of the group. As he did, these men were able to give him feedback about his defense mechanisms that kept him isolated. These men also supported him in changing the ways he related to his wife.

    Alan also joined a health club where he started playing volleyball and racquetball with other men. Later, he took the lead in starting up a softball team. At first it was difficult to take time out just for himself, especially when it meant being away from his family.

    It took a few years, but Alan now has a couple of close male friends as well as several other guys he sees on a regular basis. He even takes a yearly road trip with friends across the country for a weekend of golf. He looks at these trips with the guys as one of the highlights of his year.

    Both Alan and his wife Marie believe Alan’s conscious decision to connect with men saved their marriage. Alan had made his wife his emotional center. His life revolved around trying to please her and make her happy. Due to his ineffective covert contracts, Alan never believed Marie gave as much to him as he gave to her. As a result, he was often resentful and passive-aggressive. When Alan began to get his emotional and social needs met with men, it took a lot of pressure off his wife.

    As Alan reclaimed his masculine energy, he also began to look more attractive to Marie. Even though it was initially difficult to tell her that he was going to spend time with his friends, she respected him when he did. This newfound respect rekindled the feelings she first felt toward Alan early in their relationship.

    As Alan found out, there are numerous benefits from developing male relationships. Perhaps one of the most significant benefits for Nice Guys is that it improves their relationships with women. I consistently tell Nice Guys, “The best thing you can do for your relationship with your girlfriend or wife is to have male friends.” As they get many of their emotional needs met with men, recovering Nice Guys become less dependent, needy, manipulative and resentful in their relationships with women.

    Developing male relationships makes recovering Nice Guys less susceptible to seeking women’s approval or allowing themselves to be defined by the opposite sex. If the Nice Guy’s girlfriend or wife is angry at him or thinks he is a jerk, he can take comfort in knowing his buddies think he is OK. He is therefore less likely to resort to peacekeeping or fixing to try and keep his partner happy.

    Friendships with men have the potential for tremendous depth and intimacy because there is no sexual agenda. A Nice Guy will frequently avoid doing anything that might upset his partner and cause her to not want to have sex with him. With men, recovering Nice Guys don’t feel like they have to please, placate, lie, caretake or sacrifice like they believe they have to with women. Not having a sexual agenda removes the fear and dysfunctional dances so common for Nice Guys in their relationships with the opposite sex.

  78. http://www.amazon.com/No-More-Mr-Nice-Guy/dp/0762415339/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8

    “Getting Strong Helps Nice Guys Reclaim Their Masculinity

    Masculinity denotes strength and power. Because of their conditioning, Nice Guys tend to fear these traits. As a result, they often become emotionally and physically soft. Some even take pride in this softness. I’ve met many Nice Guys who work out or practice martial arts, but who are still afraid of their strength.

    Embracing one’s masculinity mean’s embracing one’s body, power, and spaciousness. In order to do this, recovering Nice Guys have to stop putting junk into their bodies and train them to respond to the physical demands of being male. This involves eating healthy foods, eliminating drugs and alcohol, working out, drinking lots of water, playing, relaxing, and getting enough rest. Whether the Nice Guy stays fit by running, swimming, weight training, martial arts, playing basketball, volleyball, or tennis, this physical strength translates into self-confidence and power in every other aspect of his life.

    Travis, an attorney in his early fifties is a good example. Travis came to see me to deal with his marital difficulties. During the first session of counseling, two things became immediately evident: First, Travis was a Nice Guy, and second, he had a drug and alcohol problem. I told him I would work with him only if he got a drug and alcohol assessment, quit drinking, and started attending Alcoholics Anonymous. Travis complied with all my boundaries and asked if he could join one of the No More Mr. Nice Guy!
    groups.

    Over the next several months, Travis’s relationship with his wife was up and down like a yo-yo. In addition to marital problems, it also became apparent that Travis had a number of other lifestyle problems. His diet consisted primarily of fast food. He was a chain smoker and he drank several cups of coffee a day. He worked long hours and got absolutely no exercise.

    Over the next several months, Travis began to address these issues one at a time. He started taking time away from work to attend AA meetings and spend time with other recovering men. He decided to have a surgery he had been putting off for years. Since he wouldn’t be able to smoke for a few days, he decided it was a good time to quit for good. After his surgery, he began going for walks during his lunch hour. He started drinking more water and cut back on his coffee and soft drink consumption. He even took a week off from work and went fishing with some friends in Alaska.
    About 10 months after joining the Nice Guy group, he shared that he was filing for divorce. With his lifestyle changes and the support of the group he had come to realize that his combative relationship with his wife was his last bad habit that needed to go. While relaying his decision to the group, he revealed that his wife blamed the group for killing their marriage. Travis smiled and then wiped a tear from the corner of his eye. “Thanks to this group, I feel strong. I never could have made these changes without your help. This group didn’t kill my marriage, it saved my life.” “

  79. Seek out a mentor

    http://therationalmale.com/2016/01/18/a-teachable-moment/comment-page-3/#comment-136711

    Seeking Out Healthy Role Models Helps Nice Guys Reclaim Their Masculinity

    I encourage recovering Nice Guys to visualize what they think a healthy male would look like and think of healthy masculine traits they would like to develop. With that picture in mind, they can go out and look for men who have these kinds of qualities. These men may be in their church, their company, their softball team, even characters on TV or the movies. By observing how these men live their lives and interact with the world, the Nice Guy can begin assimilating a healthier model of manhood.

    Like many recovering Nice Guys, I have done this work by committee. I developed a friendship with one man who was good at doing guy things. I formed a relationship with another guy who was a hard worker. I created a relationship with a man who was comfortable revealing himself and sharing his feelings. I made another friend who was good at taking risks and challenging himself. Each of these men in their own way helped me see what it looks like to be male and have been role models for reclaiming my own masculinity.

  80. @Dutchman

    How bout this from the Glover book. It seems this is working for you lately:

    “Setting Boundaries Helps Nice Guys Get The Love They Want

    The subject of boundaries was presented in Chapter Five. Nowhere is the issue of boundary setting more important for Nice Guys than in their most intimate relationships. By setting healthy boundaries with their partners, Nice Guys create situations in which both they and their partner can feel safe to be vulnerable and experience true intimacy.

    I show Nice Guys, often with their partners watching, how to step up to their line and set boundaries. On more than one occasion, I have had the partner of a Nice Guy applaud during the demonstration. The Nice Guy will turn, slack-jawed, and say, “You mean you want me to stand up to you, dear?”

    “Of course I do,” she will respond, “I don’t want to be married to someone I can walk all over.”

    Then I warn him. “Your wife is telling you the truth. She doesn’t feel safe knowing she can push you around. She wants to know that you will stand up to her. That is how she will feel secure in the relationship. But, here’s the catch. She has to test to see if she can trust you. The first time you set a boundary with her she may react intensely. She will push against it. She will tell you that you are wrong for setting that boundary. She will do her best to find out if your boundary is for real.”

    When a recovering Nice Guy sets boundaries with his partner, it makes her feel secure. In general, when women feel secure, they feel loved. She will also come to know that if her partner will stand up to her, he is also likely to stand up for her. Setting boundaries also creates respect. When a Nice Guy fails to set boundaries it communicates to his partner that he doesn’t really honor himself, so why should she?

    To help Nice Guys decide if they need to set a boundary with a particular behavior, I have them apply the Second Date Rule. Using the second date rule, Nice Guys ask themselves, “If this behavior had occurred on the second date, would there have been a third?” This question helps them see if they have been putting up with something that they shouldn’t.
    When trying to decide how to deal with a behavior they have deemed unacceptable, I encourage Nice Guys to apply the Healthy Male Rule. Following this rule of thumb, they simply ask themselves, “How would a healthy male handle this situation?” For some reason, just asking this question connects them with their intuitive wisdom and helps them access the power they need to respond appropriately.

    Once the Nice Guy knows he can set a boundary any time he needs to, he can let people move toward him, get close, have feelings, be sexual, and so on. He can let these things happen because he is confident that at any point, if he begins to feel uncomfortable, he can say “stop,” “no,” or “slow down,” or can remove himself. He can do whatever he needs to do to take care of himself. “

    See how that works?

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