Ovulation & Dread

ovulation_dread

I had an interesting study brought to my attention recently (ht/ Robert Burriss) and I thought I’d get back to a nuts and bolts post with something useful I found in it.

Women Selectively Guard Their Desirable Mates From Ovulating Women.

As you might expect, much of the findings in this study reinforce many Red Pill principles founded in evo-psych, but there are a few new angles to consider here. Before I start to riff on this study, bear in mind that the concept of female mate guarding behavior centers on what the researchers define as ‘desirable mates’ to women. This subjective assessment of desirability will play into all this analysis.

For women, forming close, cooperative relationships with other women at once poses important opportunities and possible threats-including mate retention. To maximize the benefits and minimize the costs of same-sex social relationships, we propose that women’s mate guarding is functionally flexible and that women are sensitive to both interpersonal and contextual cues indicating whether other women might be likely and effective mate poachers. Here, we assess one such cue: other women’s fertility. Because ovulating (i.e., high-fertility) women are both more attractive to men and also more attracted to (desirable) men, ovulating women may be perceived to pose heightened threats to other women’s romantic relationships. Across 4 experiments, partnered women were exposed to photographs of other women taken during either their ovulatory or nonovulatory menstrual-cycle phases, and consistently reported intentions to socially avoid ovulating (but not nonovulating) women-but only when their own partners were highly desirable. Exposure to ovulating women also increased women’s sexual desires for their (highly desirable) partners. These findings suggest that women can be sensitive to subtle cues of other women’s fertility and respond (e.g., via social exclusion, enhanced sexual attention to own mate) in ways that may facilitate their mate retention goals while not thwarting their affiliative goals.

Right from the start here we have two Red Pill foundations confirmed; the influence that perceptual SMV plays in women’s sense of passive Dread and the fundamental influence that menstruation dictates to sexual arousal and concurrent motivations for sex appeal during women’s ovulation phase.

I’ve previously gone into the dynamics that play out between men and women with regard to perceived SMV of a partner versus the other partner’s self-perception of their own SMV and how this determines secure vs. insecure attachment. This post was more of an outline of results of SMV imbalance rather that the motivations for the characteristics of those personal attachments. This study illustrates these underlying motivators very well.

Anyone who’s heard my Man in Demand talk on Hypergamy understands the (menstrual cycle) biological root for women’s personal and sociological behavior, and this study provides yet another confirmation of it. I’ve also written in the past about men’s propensity for mate guarding and the behavioral cues women, both subtly and not so subtly, display that prompts them to mate guarding. However, I’ve yet to explore women’s mate guarding behaviors.

I’m bringing up the SMV ratios and Mate Guarding posts here because it’s important to bear in mind the subjectivity that perceived SMV plays in regard to motivating mate guarding. Depending on that balance (or imbalance) one partner will be more motivated to mate guard than the other. Which of course then brings us back to the Cardinal Rule of Relationships. Mate guarding impulse is contextual to the comparative value of both individuals and the value of others in their social environment (potential sexual competitors).

Thus, it is a significant challenge for women when other women attempt to poach their partners. For instance, over 50% of women admit to attempting to poach another woman’s partner, and over 80% of men admit to having been the object of another woman’s poaching—with about half of men admitting to “going along” with the poaching attempt (e.g., Schmitt et al., 2004; Schmitt & Buss, 2001). Women have good reason, then, to mate guard.

I’m going to encourage readers to take the time to, at the very least, read the introduction, premise and results of this comprehensive study. Naturally there will be incredulous women who will insist that men tend to overestimate the displayed sexual interests of women towards them. This is a common social convention that serves a very specific purpose for women; plausible deniability.

If the common group-think is that men are egotistical, think they’re “all that” and stupidly believe they’re seeing sexual cues from women because “that’s just how men are”, then we have a pre-established condition in which women can believably deny interest. Thus, should a man not find a woman attractive, or opt for another, this then serves as a rejection buffer as well as a precondition for her own rejection of a man should he make an approach and not be found attractive.

The Schmitt & Buss studies account for this, but even if they didn’t there would still need to be a functional reason for women’s mate guarding behavior. That reason puts the lie to the social convention of women presuming men aren’t as perceptive of their sexual cues as they’d like to believe.

[…] whereas men have at times physically isolated and sequestered their female

partners to restrict other men’s access to them (e.g., in harems), women may analogously socially isolate their partners from potential poachers—keeping them apart so as to preclude potentially costly competition for their romantic partners.

The usefulness of this strategy depends on women being able to identify those who might be likely and effective mate poachers, and then excluding them (but not others) from their social circles. If a woman indiscriminately distances herself and her partner from potential poachers (i.e., all other women), she is assured of his fidelity but at the cost of eliminating her access to the numerous benefits of female–female friendships.

Spoiler alert: The study confirms that women will covertly exclude themselves and their lover’s company from women who A.) outclass them in comparative SMV (hotter women than they perceive themselves to be) and B.) happen to be in the proliferative phase of ovulation.

This indicates that not only are women subconsciously (if not consciously) aware of intrasexual rivals ovulatory states – as evidenced by dress, ornamentation, vocal intonation, scent, sexual proceptivity, etc. – but they are aware enough to orchestrate covert methods to protect their sexual investments in a ‘high value’ male while ensuring future intrasexual friendships.

That may seem like an overly scientific way of saying women watch out for other women slutting it up, but the subcommunications of ovulation are so subtle that women’s subconscious, peripheral awareness of those cues evolved for a sensitivity that goes beyond the obvious slut. That’s how important retaining a better-than-self SMV optimal mating choice is to women in an evolutionary scope. That sensitivity is part of women’s psychological firmware.

[…]In addition, if a woman were to consistently and indiscriminately exclude other women from her own and, by extension, her partner’s social circle, she might gain a reputation for being non-communal and non-nurturing, and thus, for being an undesirable friend. This might not only thwart her ability to form future friendships with other women, but might also lead her partner to perceive her as highly difficult, uncooperative, controlling, and non-trusting.

Thus, on one hand, the costs of indiscriminately avoiding other women are high because women reap important benefits from making new same-sex friends, On the other hand, women can and do mate poach with frequency, and those women deeply embedded in one’s social circle may have increased access, motivation, and ability to poach successfully.

There’s a few things to unpack here before we can make this information Red Pill / Game applicable. The most important metric that female mate guarding indicates is her genuine assessment of a man’s SMV and how valuable his participation and investment in their LTR (or even STR sexual value) is to her.

I’ve seen this mate guarding play out in my own relationships before, both as a Red Pill husband who happens to work with beautiful women in the liquor industry and prior to my Red Pill awareness of it in my libertine 20s. Back then it was easy to pass off as ‘bitches be crazy’ when a girlfriend or a short term sex partner “just got jealous”. But in hindsight the timing of those fits of jealousy seemed a bit to regular.

I’m going to suggest that developing an awareness of a woman’s bouts of jealousy or her subtle timing in wanting to spend time alone with you, or her being more sexually proceptive (she wants to fuck more) with you at times you may think odd. These are Alpha or Beta TellsA woman’s preoccupation with guarding you from other women is a prime indicator of your SMV worth to her. It stands to reason that only ‘desirable’ men deserve the effort of her mate guarding.

This is an important Red Pill sensitivity to have as it also allows you to determine a woman’s unspoken understanding of where she and you stand in relative SMV comparison. As I was saying in the introduction here, that ‘desirability’, that SMV ratio, that Alpha impression that makes you worth mate guarding is subjective to what a woman’s self-perceived SMV is in respect to your own. When we interact with women in the long term it’s very easy for men to lose sight of this balance and think that their frumpy wife is the best they can do. There is a definitive psychological game that women of low SMV will play with men they know are of higher value – they will continually devalue that man as a form of mate guarding.

That devaluation may take the form of browbeating, nagging or accusing him of being attracted to other women in an effort to get her higher value LTR man to self-limit his being poached by endlessly qualifying himself to his low SMV wife/girlfriend. It’s far easier, and far lower an investment of resources if a low SMV woman can convince her higher SMV man to mate guard himself.

Just as an aside here, there may be a few readers who’ll think women will rationally consider that their long term provisioning is virtually assured in a feminine-primary social order. Alimony, child support or pro-female government will assure her and her offspring a baseline of security, so why mate guard any man?

The answer of course is that women’s psychological firm ware didn’t evolve to acknowledge these considerations. Once again T-Rex doesn’t want to be fed, he wants to hunt. So even with the logical consideration that provisioning is assured women’s limbic (particularly on an Alpha Fucks short term breeding assurance) still wants those environmental and behavioral cues that indicate they have that security.

Passive Dread

So with all of this to digest how do we put this knowledge of women’s limbic desire for ensuring a mate’s exclusive sex and provisioning to use for us?

The obvious answer is in the title of this post – developing that awareness of your SMV worth to a woman is a good starting point from which you can subtly employ a passive form of Dread.

I’ve gotten a lot of grief for just my acknowledging Dread, much less using it beneficially for both a man and whatever woman he chooses (long or short term). It’s always about how horribly manipulative it is, or it’s just an unsustainable game of brinksmanship between a couple that destroys trust. But what these (usually female) critics never recognize is that Dread is already an integral part of every relationship by order of degree.

The fact that both male and female mate guarding behaviors are evidential facts of both sex’s hindbrain function should be proof enough that Dread, the concern of loss of investment, and the subconscious, comparative evaluation of SMV is something that’s always an operative. It’s inherent to our conditions as evolved human beings.

My advice in this instance is for men to become sensitive to the indicators of that ovulatory mate guarding dread and use that insecurity to promote a better, genuine desire in that woman. Suggesting this will seem counterintuitive to a Blue Pill mindset. The conditioned response will be to allay that woman’s fears (the ones she’s subconsciously aware of but will hate you for making her acknowledge) and provide her with comfort and familiarity.

But comfort and familiarity are anti-seductive and kill the genuine desire, the genuine need to fuck you in order to keep you and show her appreciation for your higher SMV. Why does a woman compete for what she is constantly comfortably assured she already has?

The trick to employing soft or passive dread is making yourself sensitive to the opportunities to use it and then gently provoke it in as covert and indirect a way as possible. One of the better ideas the early PUAs had was mastering the art of the Neg, or the backhanded compliment. The idea was to casually knock a woman’s self-image down to a manageable degree in order to get her to qualify herself the the PUA. Passive dread operates on a similar principle.

You need to see the opportunities for its use, and women’s propensity for mate guarding men they find ‘desirable’ is a reasonably predictable opportunity. See those chances for other women’s casual flirtations with you, look for those unsolicited opportunities for easy social proof, and don’t dissuade your woman’s initial mate guarding response. Casually push back on the mate guarding impulse, don’t jump to the reassurances of your undying love and interest.

See that opportunity for what it is – a chance to restate whose Frame she’s chosen to be a part of. She wants to merit your value. Take that effort away from her and you become valueless to her.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

968 comments on “Ovulation & Dread

  1. I wanted to reply re: http://anjaliramkissoon.org/

    lol, that woman is trash who just happens to be a resident neurologist. She got a tattoo on her right forearm in addition to a tramp stamp… TRASH. Hard to believe anyone defends her.

    I also wanted to drop this vid here, which was recommended on another vid I was watching. It’s probably been posted here, but I don’t remember seeing it. I was amazed at the production value.

  2. @YaReally

    I didn’t say I was just going to leave it at that and expect shit to roll and work for me. It was more that I’m going to see if I can as you said find out venues and maybe get him to wing with me if we get along well, which seems likely. That’s where the “We’ll see” comes from.

    I don’t expect any of this shit to be passive. Being passive is what got me in to this whole mess in the first place.

  3. Yareally Dutchman SJF HABD scribblerg newlyaloof

    “Quit waiting, start making shit happen.”

    this is always a good choice, for everything in life. If you need a tattoo on your wrist to inspire you, this would be a good one.

    “Nothing got “resolved”, rather I saw the hindbrain was screaming for alpha and the calmer I was and the more resistant I was to her framing, the more she calmed down. She just wants to be dominated and fucked. ”

    hehehe – notice how this dynamic is JUST as applicable to the LTR/Marriage… It’s not JUST for crazy bitches…. (or it is that all bitches be crazy)

  4. @Ya, Scray and Red – Just fucking around a bit, got the message and thanks for taking the time to lay out how being defensive is to give up frame. Message received.

    But also know that i’m having this massive “SHIFT” right now, to the point where I’m finding the early part of SHIFT boring and no new news.

    FR here at coffee shop, I aggressively opened a 22 yr old in the midst of convo with other guy and she fucking loved it. I self ejected, no time – just saw the opening and wanted to see how hard I could push myself. Fucking 22 yr old HB8. Lasered and HB5 chubbette with a cute face so hard it like knocked her back and she made this weird face but then got this big smile, like she was embarrassed. Lol, she keep stealing looks and smiling, I linger, smile and smirk. No time and no interest, I have work to do, just practice. But holy shit, like I MADE HER ATTRACTED TO ME THERE WAS NO IOI!!!!! She just pranced by me but again, she’s not attractive to me, lol. Fuck, I see The Matrix.

    Holy shit. I mean it, holy shit. Also exploding at work, in amazing ways, just found my Chi or some shit, like I”m owning me or not hating me. Hard to explain but I feel so alive and powerful and free, crazy.

  5. @scrib

    Sounds like you’re on your way dude. It’s awesome that virtually all of the comments in the thread right now are either FRs or people with experience analyzing the FRs instead of a bunch of bitching.

  6. @newlyaloof

    ” Probably see her again and I will open again. Game exercise. How would you reopen her?”

    I probably fuck around with her dog…

    You: Oh good still training our dog.
    Her. bla blah blah
    You: lets try this, I will take him over there and you call and see if he comes
    Her OK
    You: walk dog 15 feet away, pause and wait for her to call it, then turn around shake your head and slowly walk off.

    slowly walk off so she can catch up to you and when she comes close laugh and she will probably arm punch you or you can grab her and laugh, then say, let’s take him for a walk and walk around the block chatting with her…

    Or just pick it up and walk away… LOL

    Really anything at all should work, she seemed into you.

  7. FR: I just cold opened Eliza Dushku, up here in NH speaking for Bernie Sanders. I actually couldn’t remember her name properly and she corrected me. Her hair looked darker and I was like,’Your hair used to be darker
    and she corrected me. Lol, I negged automatically without even thinking. I didn’t laser (should have) but she had to go to the bathroom. I spoke with her mom until she came back from the bathroom and kept at it with her Mom. Then she turned to me, huge smile, “What’s your name?” Shook my hand warmly, asked “You’re from NY?” She was on her way out, but when she was 15 ft away, I yelled. “So where are you off too now?” She turns back, smiles, “Bernie headquarters.” Okay, so i didn’t take it anywhere but I cold opened a fucking movie/tv star. stayed in set, didn’t spray my pants.

    Holy. Fucking shit. Okay, I need to learn what do with interest now.

    http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/8000000/Eliza-Dushku-eliza-dushku-8067841-1024-768.jpg

  8. “JUST ESCALATE.”

    Scray -> fucking inspiring.

    my themes for feb are “what would the king do?” and also, “what would Scray do?”

    looking at the deadlift bar. it looks too heavy. “what would scray do?” fucking pick it up!!

    at dinner with the mrs. two 6s across the way, staring at my food.

    me: “you’ve never had this”

    6: “no”

    me: “try it”

    6: “no”

    me: “you got five seconds till the offer expires”

    6: (looks at her friend. they laugh. she gets up, rips a piece off my plate, tries it. spicy as fuck) that’s spicy!

    me: “uh huh”

    five minutes later:

    6: “no one’s ever made me try food before. or made me take it off their plate with my bare hands”

    me: (nod and go back to chatting with the mrs)

    women love taking orders. even from complete strangers. if we don’t escalate they’re lost

  9. @Sentient, I like that. I was thinking similar humor (cause that’s my style):

    Me: “How’s the dog training going?”
    Girl: “Oh Great, blah blah.”
    Me: “Yeah, I feel I was a big part of that success. I’m like his big brother Newly Aloof practically. What’s your name btw?” And take it from there.

    BUt what game has taught me most of all is that girls’ lives are so boring that saying ANYTHING is a plus. Nobody cold opens in my area. Bunch of spineless betas, so I’m feeling good for opening so effortlessly and chatting calmly with her.

  10. @Softek

    You are the poster child for Rollo Tomassi’s First Year essays and his Iron Rules. You learned well and applied these red pill aware game tactics and where did it get you? Your first lay and a relationship with a girl for a couple months.

    Now you want to throw it all away. Your Frame, your MPO, your confidence, your abundance mentality. Your social proof. The fact that you need motive and opportunity to spin plates. The fact that you need congruence. Don’t throw that all away.

    You wrote comments to Dutch in a good frame January 30th, 2016 at 8:41 am with your logical forebrain. And then you wrote that total loss of confidence. Then you let your incongruent limbi system mid brain take over and write the incongruent shit on January 31st, 2016 at 7:13 pm in which you say your confidence and frame are completely shattered.

    Welcome to relationship game. Welcome to being incongruent. Welcome to being past your skill level. The reason to have a relationship at your young age and skill level is to learn from it and not fuck it up the next time.

    The reason I recommended not caring about what your relationship status was declared as was with the caveat that you have all of your red pill awareness and game in hand and in order. You trying to change your relationship at the last minute is pretty similar to the New England Patriots trying to tie it up against the Denver Broncos on the last drive of the game which failed and then didn’t recover the onside kick. Fail.

    The water was already under the bridge when you tried the hail mary “SJF said I should just cave to my instincts and change my relationship status and then my life will be complete” I call BS on that.

    This girl was an Epiphany chick who wanted to lock you down. And your game failed to convince her that you were who you were and she’s welcome to come along for the ride on your terms.

    Fact is you didn’t have enough DHV or game skills to pull off getting what you needed and wanted: Sex.

    Better luck next time. Time to pick yourself up and build your castle and your kingdom. Don’t lett this get you back to your old ways of anxiety and depression. Work on developing your business career, learn better game and eat well, work out, get enough sleep and take care of your body and mind.

    Do not let yourself slide back into your old rut. Dopamine inputs will be critical. These include music, really good music. Self satisfaction on your job and making money. Exercise. Good relationships with family and guy friends. Fucking other women. Hobbies and adventures.

    Everything you did to get the girl in the end was everything you didn’t do to keep the girl. You back- slid on red pill awareness and game.

    Get back on the saddle and ride up the learning curve of masculine self improvement. We will all be disappointed if you slide all the way back down that learning curve to where you started from last year. Don’t let us down.

  11. @having a bad day February 2nd, 2016 at 9:38 am

    @Sentient February 2nd, 2016 at 12:32 pm

    The vibe here is great with the last five days from you guys and YaReally and Scray. Seeing you get Scribbler up off his ass and moving is wonderfully refreshing.

    I don’t disagree at all with your sentiments. I am concerned that someone like Dutch or Softek are punching above their weight-class with lack of complete game skills and play with dynamite and blow up their own personal script and mission statement for themselves.

    We all take our own time frame to become masterful at game. I’m not advocating going slow. It worked for me and I’m in a great place and where I want to be right now. Getting up the learning curve worked for me and Rollo and this blog are invaluable.

    I saw the code in the matrix and realized how to read it. But I have assets, skill, adaptability and really never fucked up or needed to get better out of desperation and frustration, rather because of inspiration and enthusiasm. At the start of my I saw two of my friends, one blue pill and one red pill take the dynamite and blow up their long term marriages and high net worth by either not “getting” it for lack of effort, or rushing the Alpha frame (turning alpha asshole in a short time time-frame with poor game). And another third guy having his girl turn feral.

    Thanks for your comments. Things are going great for me now and I’m by no means resting on my laurels (I got lots of them), and I’m not one to not keep from knowing where my edge is and pushing just beyond my edge, my capacity and my fear. I don’t pretend I am more enlightened than I am and I’m not going to stop short of my actual edge.

  12. SJF Maxims

    # 1 Everything Matters.

    #2 Game concepts and tactics are fungible (mutually interchangeable) across all relationship platforms.

    #3 Male definition of intimacy: When your woman says “Thank you for fucking me!”.

  13. @Rollo
    lol red pill waifu shoe0nhead taking down neomasculinity with shitposting:

    https://twitter.com/shoe0nhead/status/637892803050270721
    https://twitter.com/shoe0nhead/status/685612224417759232
    https://twitter.com/aurini/status/637928909044973569
    https://photo4.ask.fm/818/301/926/-189996969-1t8tjnc-4fpb6619fhkn0t5/original/file.jpg

    Her tooling these guys is actually a good lesson in frame/AMOG battles and how retarded over-reacting and trying to play the James Bond “take myself way too seriously” RVF thing looks ESPECIALLY when the other person is fucking with you. A girl on the internet posting misspelled tweets and “bideos” of her bunny (zero fucks given and unreactive to anything they throw at her) runs circles around these “red pill masters” lol

    This is what happens when you circle-jerk on a forum posting Braveheart gifs and labelling your “get drunk and hit on girls” meetings as “tribal gatherings” instead of interacting with real life human beings and realizing how awkward this LARPing shit comes off to anyone who isn’t making videos with a skull strategically placed in the background lol

    At the end of the day game and pickup and all this shit is supposed to be FUN. Never take yourself so seriously that you forget that.

    If you haven’t seen her stuff, check it out she’s awesome <3:

    1. @YaReally, Roosh’s PR machine is going to backfire on him soon. He’s literally using his neomasc followers to build his notoriety. Neomasculinity is just the vehicle for him and the guys who show up at these tribal meetings will pay the price for him.

      https://www.facebook.com/topic/Return-of-Kings/105597289474005

      All it’s gonna take is one neomasc guy or one counter protester to get violent and this shit will blow up in his face. He’s already made it clear he doesn’t care about the anonymity of the guys who came to his world tour dates (BBC interview was an easily provable lie) and neither does he care if the MSM blanket him and them with the ‘Rape Legalization Advocates’ meme.

      I can hardly wait to read Paul Elam when the MSM conflates RoK with MRAs.

  14. @ SJF

    Things kicked back up again with the girl (this has happened many times before). Great sex again, and then back to the old trying to lock me down thing. Always a mix. Usually mind blowing sex followed by some kind of sadness later about how she thinks I don’t want to be with her long term. She isn’t blowing up or anything. Just expressing that it’s causing her a lot of anxiety, she’s worried I’m going to leave her, etc. Every time I leave or she leaves. Always some expression of anxiety/insecurity, etc.

    The “Dynamite” part comes in with feeling guilt about not committing to her, and then that guilt making it hard for me to understand what’s actually going on.

    Is her reaction normal? Is that just a part of how these things work? Is my feeling bad about it the problem? Or is it a red flag that I’m doing something wrong in the relationship? Are women all just going to be insecure like that, or am I doing something wrong that’s over-stimulating that insecurity?

    As for punching above my class, even YaReally said he doesn’t even bother with the 28+ crowd. They expect and want so much more than younger girls, at least from what I’ve heard. Even from the first night we got together, I had a feeling this was going to be a big issue.

    For the first time I had sex, and my first relationship, it was a pretty big jump. Not to mention she cheated on her BF at the time with me, and my first adventure into all this included dealing with threats from him, and also taking a lot of shit from all the other Beta guys that were into her and wanted to be with her and hated my guts.

    It was like 0-60, big time. Going from incel to dealing with social pressure and shaming, getting threats, then after that cleared out, big time Epiphany/Transition phase insecurities and ultimatums.

    With Epiphany/Transition women, do you just have to accept that you can’t have a non-committed relationship indefinitely? Or is it a failure in game if you can’t do that?

    She REALLY seems to want to have kids and raise a family. Not right now, but within the next 5-8 years or whenever. I’m not writing that off completely for my life. But she’s older, and it’s more of an imperative for her. By the time I might feel ready to have kids she might not be biologically capable of having kids anymore. I’ve already talked about this with her.

    So there’s that: can I really comfortable enter a committed relationship with her knowing that that’s what she wants and is hoping for?

    She knows that I’m interested in other women. She knows that I’m definitely, absolutely nowhere near ready to even think about raising a family. And yet she’s still seeing me anyway. We’re having great sex. She says she knows I don’t have the experience, but out of her whole life it’s been the best sex she’s ever had, and we’ve been doing just about everything.

    Am I overthinking her insecurities? Is her having insecurities par for the course? Or if I was handling this relationship better, would she not be expressing these things so much, and talking about how distressed she is, etc.?

    We still continue to see each other, and after every ‘explosion’ we’ve had, and her saying she can’t do this anymore, we’ve always gotten back together within a day and were having great sex again.

    And so again tonight. Great sex, then some bonding/affection, talking a bit and spending some time together, then the sadness/insecurity and ‘come down’ on her side when it was time for me to go.

    I thought it was over when she told me she was done and apparently blocked me, but it turns out she just turned her account off for a while. Didn’t block me. And then it was back on and we’re messaging like we always do, saw her today, and here I am. This has happened more than a few times before.

    I do feel like I’ve been up front with her. She knows I’m hesitant to commit because I’m interested in other girls, even though I’m not seeing anyone else at the moment. She’s really been going hard lately with expressing how she wants me all to herself.

    Now from a Blue Pill mindset, I might think, “Great! Then commit to a relationship with her and everything will go great. Because she really wants me, right? She SAID she wants me all to herself, so that means if I give myself all to her, everyone will be happy. Yay.”

    When in reality, even if I’m not seeing any other girls, I feel like going into that mindset will blow up the relationship.

    She CHEATED ON HER BF WITH ME. And you know what she said? That he was ALL ABOUT HER. How he didn’t have any friends or ambitions outside of her. That he never looked at other girls, was completely devoted to her and faithful, but he was boring. Wasn’t going anywhere in life.

    But she also said she couldn’t see herself having kids with him. That scares me at this point in my life, as it should. I’m in no place to even remotely think about that. So I’m wondering if a part of her dumping him was because she’s going hard into baby mode and is looking for someone to raise a family with.

    The age gap is absolutely, IMO, putting me above my weight class. That’s a big part of it.

    I think I’ve been managing things well, maybe better than I’ve been conveying here. Judging by how frequently we’re having sex, and how good it is, and how she’s extremely pleasant to me the majority of the time, submissive, etc. — very feminine. It’s a nice relationship. I’m happy with things the way they are for now.

    I haven’t told her that I feel guilty. Not making that mistake. But I do. And maybe that’s what’s throwing me off and making me feel like things are worse than they actually are.

    DEFINITELY learning a lot. But I feel like I’ve managed to keep the relationship alive pretty well so far, given the circumstances (mostly the age gap).

    I’m going to continue seeing her, but the absolute hardest part is seeing other girls as well. It feels so dirty/guilty/shameful/etc. Maybe those are the last remnants of the Blue Pill thinking.

    I’m not committing to her because I want to see other girls. And yet I’m not. So there’s an incongruency. Why am I refusing to commit to her if I’m actually committed to her, and not seeing other girls?

    Why refuse to be her boyfriend, and then NOT see other girls, as if I was committed to her?

    I can get that now, finally. I didn’t even realize how incongruent I was being. But it makes sense given my history and the fact that I’m very new to all this.

    My Blue Pill hindbrain is screaming at me that seeing other girls is a mistake. Still thinking that “giving the girl what she says she wants” is the way to go, vs. going by her behaviors and approaching from a RP mindset.

    I HAVEN’T gone the Blue Pill route yet, but there’ve been some really fucking close calls. And as far as I can tell, the only reason we’re still seeing each other and it’s as intense as it was almost a half-year ago, is because I haven’t gone full Beta on her.

  15. @Scray – I went to the gym, checked a venue which was dead so I came home, did some work, ate a steak and am recharged. The Bernie people are all staying over in my town, i’m putting on some fresh clothes, heading back in to town so go try and fuck her. He he. I think the makeout thing would have been a bit weird as her Mom was right there, but Mom actually gave me the unspoken thumbs up.

    I was dressed grossly, hadn’t showered cuz i was headed to the gym afterwards – irrelevant. I’m working on lasering, I lasered a super hottie at the gym while i was taking a work call before the workout – hotter than Emily and maybe 21 and she smiled, kept looking back and then actually arched her back and started preening for me while at the counter, while I talked on the phone and continued to laser and grin/smirk at her. I feel entitled to any woman’s pussy, and that’s exactly the vibe they are picking up on.

    Of course, if I do nail a celeb, I can’t report it here guys so you’ll never know if this works out…Onward and motherfucking upwards…

    Hi Emily.

  16. Hey… don’t mind me, I was just seeing if I could post yet (apparently I can, yay!)

    I know Dallas quite well so yeah. It has a pretty cool vibe.

  17. tl;dr:

    My brain is consolidating a lot of information. Reading about TRP is one thing. Experiencing it firsthand is another. Right from the start with this girl, I feel like I started “getting” what other guys here were talking about. Not everything, obviously.

    But little bits and pieces. Lightbulb here, lightbulb there.

    It’s fucking hard to confront myself too. For so many years all I imagined was just having a stable relationship. It was all I wanted. So to feel like I have that option now, but to know from TRP that it’s not that easy, is very hard to come to terms with.

    After all, if it was as easy as “She said she only wanted to be with me, so I said I only wanted to be with her, and then we were together forever and lived happily ever after”…..RM wouldn’t exist. Or any other publication about relationships, for that matter.

    I’m keeping my head above water. But the ego-investments are coming on full force now. I thought I was “over” it by just reading about these things and having a few hookups. I thought I’d accepted TRP. Now I’m just starting to realize the gravity of this stuff. I didn’t realize how naive I was.

    I do feel like I’m finding my way though. I feel like I’m in a much better position than I was a year ago. Whatever this relationship is, it’s a relationship, which is a lot more than I had when I was just whacking off to Pornhub at 3 in the morning and wanting to kill myself, lol.

    Even if I might be dealing with a cluster B situation, even if the Epiphany phase is out of my weight class, for everything that’s been fucked up, I feel like I’ve grown and developed a lot. I’m continuing to see her too, and learning more every time I do.

    I’ve also been talking to another girl, and haven’t been feeling guilty about it. Getting the shame out of my head. Nothing’s happened yet, but I feel like it’s very easily building up to that. Only reason I haven’t been pushing harder is because of my own incongruencies.

    I’m not committed to this girl, and she knows that. She says she wants me all to herself, implying that I’m not all hers right now. So why feel guilty about talking to other girls right now? For fuck’s sake. I beat the SHIT out of myself all my life, and I’m still doing it. I need to let up on myself a bit and stop thinking I’m Satan for any perceived ‘offense’ that pops up in my mind.

    I think it was Forge that called me out on that. Why refuse to be her boyfriend, and then refuse to see other girls at the same time? What the fuck? Just be congruent. If I want to commit, then commit, but if I’m not going to commit, and then act like I’m committed, I’m just fucking myself over.

    Aye. Enough for now. Thanks for all the input, by the way. Feels like the screws on my head are threading in a little easier now. Get a little 3-in-1 in there and I might be good for the week, lol.

  18. Rollo, what are your thoughts on being red pill during pregnancy? My ovulation game is tight but I decided to give her a child now the game has changed. I (and many readers) would love to hear your thoughts

  19. Softek
    February 2nd, 2016 at 6:27 pm

    You got a lot of questions there. Go back tomorrow and read through them and then answer them based on what you know with your fore-brain. You already know the answers (thanks to TRM), don’t let your hind and mid-brain take over.

    You know what you gotta do to. Just Do It.

    Your Purpose Must Come Before Your Relationship (Ch. 7 Deida, TWSM)

    Every man knows that his highest purpose in life cannot be reduced to any particular relationship. If a man prioritizes his relationship over his highest purpose, he weakens himself, dis-serves the universe, and cheats his woman of an authentic man who can offer her full, undivided presence.

    Admit to yourself that if you had to choose one or the other, the perfect intimate relationship or achieving your highest purpose in life, you would choose to succeed at your purpose. Just this self-knowledge often relieves much pressure a man feels to prioritize his relationship when, in fact, it is not his highest priority. (Ed. Use your fucking fore-brain!)

    Your mission is your priority. Unless you know your mission and have aligned your life to it, your core will feel empty. Your presence in the world will be weakened, as will your presence with your intimate partner. The next time you notice yourself “giving in” to your woman, postponing your mission and denying your true purpose in order to spend time with her, stop. Tell your woman that you love her, but you cannot deny your heart’s purpose. Tell her that you will spend 30 minutes (or some specific time) with her in absolute attention and total presence, but then you must return to carry on your mission.

    Your woman will be more fulfilled with 30 minutes a day of undivided attention and ravishing love than she will with a few hours of your weak and divided presence when your heart really isn’t into it. Time you spend with your woman should be time you really want to be with her more than anything else. If you’d rather be doing something else, she’ll feel it. Both of you will be dissatisfied.

    Nice half recovery of your fore-brain @February 2nd, 2016 at 6:52 pm

  20. @ Rollo Tomassi

    I saw your warnings to Roosh and the others on Twitter and wanted to comment that it says a lot – you could have just turned a blind eye to those things, but didn’t.

    I’ve been reading the articles from the Facebook link, and the MSM’s description of the get-togethers as “legal rape meetings” is so borderline ridiculous, the fears expressed by those posting about it so beyond inane, you almost wonder if someone intentionally wants them to think this way.

    Call me crazy, but it seems almost like Roosh is trying to force a confrontation of some sorts and create a crisis or conflict. This is not how the Irish Republican Brotherhood was formed, if you know what I mean. Doing this out in the open was guaranteed to bring a response.

    Either way, I’m watching this one from the sidelines and taking notes.

  21. @Forge: Yeah, I have to get used to get used to the game being this slow in the beginning. I mean, so far no girl I approached in the nights I went out showed interest in me, no shit tests, nothing. Only bland 2 minute “conversations”. I definitely feel some social situations being a little bit easier though.

    @Culum: Thanks! I’m going through Julien’s SHIFT now, so much good stuff there, I’m going to check PIMP afterward, one thing I must do for sure is go out more days, reading your FR’s, I see that you go several days a week, I’m struggling to go out 1 day per week. Man, I still get anxious and very uncomfortable just thinking in going out again 🙁
    And I don’t know where and how to get a wingman to go out, my group friends are useless for this.

    @Sentient: Thanks for the advice. I will try to go out to bars and some restaurants to practice opening and having random conversations. Besides, getting in to a club costs money and at this moment I feel that I’m wasting my money since I can only be on a club for a couple of hours before getting burned out, and my game performance is just pathetic.

    So many good comments on this thread, I’m taking my time to read them. Thanks for the support!

  22. Fuckin champ Glenn!

    “Of course, if I do nail a celeb, I can’t report it here guys so you’ll never know if this works out…Onward and motherfucking upwards…”

    Damn it, you’re right. Best of luck anyways!

  23. Shit all those shoe0nhead exchanges fucked up with WordPress auto-posting. Throw twitter dot com in front of these, the whole exchanges are necessary to appreciate them and how these guys keep throwing gayness at her as she stunts on their faces lol:

    /shoe0nhead/status/637892803050270721
    /shoe0nhead/status/685612224417759232
    /Aurini/status/637928909044973569

  24. I’m gonna have to work on flash openers. As I’m getting better at seeing approach invites (and probably getting more of them as my ‘presence’ improves) I’m kicking myself like 1-2x every time I go into public.

    The window can be literally a fraction of a second.

    Was just in a grocery store. Late at night, the place is empty and the few remaining customers are all bums and 3rd-shift rejects with the haunted look of swiftly-ebbing life hanging about them. And I’m tired, a bit cranky from a long day, confident as shit and dressed to the nines from work (before Ya jumps on me, this is relevant not bc it’s fancy but bc it stood out).

    Turned a corner and a girl working there came out from an aisle in front of me. Quite bangable, unusual for that place. I noticed she slowed down till I caught up with her, then she turned right in front of me like she was going to go down another aisle, then stopped dead, acting like she forgot what she was doing. I felt kinda a lurch – my hindbrain being like ‘NOW!’ – but I had nothing and walked past. She stopped in such a way that I almost ran into her.

    Like 2 seconds later I was like ‘damn I coulda made out with her by the fish tanks!’ lol. Poor girl.

    Is this something that comes w practice or is there some workout/material to hit? My issue here isn’t something specific to say, I probably could have opened with just about anything (like the Vitaly routine from earlier lol but I coulda just asked where the fucking mousetraps were and built from there for all it matters), the issue is jumping on a chance within 1/2 second. Like it needs to be a reflex. I was tired and out of social state, that was part of it.

  25. @SJF
    “Tell her that you will spend 30 minutes (or some specific time) with her in absolute attention and total presence, but then you must return to carry on your mission.”

    Best still, dont tell her. Just do it. It is what it is after all.

  26. @forge – Swing and a miss tonight, couldn’t find the right Bernie crowd. Didn’t get much else going, no prob. Felt like a stalker, lol. Like a hunter after prey.

    Flash – yep, RSD Tyler I think did something on this. You have to just approach immediately, no hesitation just launch yourself into it. I seem to have been able to just adopt that no prob. Only advice I have is that you don’t have to “look” for openings, they just present themselves and you open. As soon as the thought occurs, just go. Even if you fumble, doesn’t matter, maintain eye contact, keep your frame and remember, you are entitled to that pussy. You are entitled to fuck every last one of them. Their pussies are your’s for the taking – and that’s what they are waiting for you to “just get”, yes?

    I’m just getting started, i have a feeling 2016 is going to be a wild year.

  27. @kfg

    I usually like to harvest antler-less deer in the 148 to 155 lb. on the hoof range, when I’m selective. (The latter was a 6 1/2 year old doe five years ago and the former, was 15 minutes after first shooting light this year). But the 110 to 120 lb. ones will suffice if you get enough of them in one day. And have two or three wing-men as mercenaries.

    The early antler-less firearms season is like shooting fish in a barrel easy.

    I never really considered squirrel hunting or wild-turkey hunting. But do enjoy rabbit hunting with beagles or rabbit in distress calls for red fox hunting.

  28. @scribblerg
    Props on the approach but just a heads-up that you’ve been revealing an awful lot about yourself. I don’t want to recap it all but like, if you make enemies it’s not going to be real hard for them to narrow you down. There’s no need to post all these details about who the celeb is and where they are and why and you’ve shared a lot about the places you hang out and hobbies you do in public etc. Like, man, I hope you don’t have business/family/etc that relies on you not being lumped in with Roosh Julien etc.

    @SJF
    Same with you, is that your fucking personal photobucket account?? With your name and shit?? Are you insane?? Why are you guys sharing so much personal information about yourselves?? Do that shit in private if you want to be BFFs with people here. Unbelievable.

    @Softek
    holy shit, I haven’t been following your situ at all but this is a video of you:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tcnnVos5a0

    You are not at all prepared to handle the situation you’re in and come out not fucked.

    “Not right now, but within the next 5-8 years or whenever.”

    Ya, whenever she senses you’re going to bail on her. Then whoops, preggers accident.

    “Judging by how frequently we’re having sex, and how good it is, and how she’s extremely pleasant to me the majority of the time, submissive, etc. — very feminine. It’s a nice relationship.”

    Ya, it’s fucking SUPER, because she doesn’t have any way to force you to stay and knows that you could, theoretically, bail if she fucks up. The second she knows you can’t leave her, you are fucked. She is lightyears ahead of you at this chess game and you are playing checkers. Everything you’re thinking and feeling is exactly what she consciously or subconsciously wants you to think and feel.

    “Even if I might be dealing with a cluster B situation”

    You are. And she’s had a LOT more years being crazy than you’ve had taming crazy.

    You’re not going to bail on her because scarcity, but buy and store your own condoms safely and check them for holes periodically, be careful how/where you blow your load and for the love of god don’t trust her when she says she’s on the pill or “it’s okay the doctor says I have a tilted uterus and can’t get pregnant” etc. Read up on the morning after pill (hint: don’t wait till the morning after to take it, the sooner the better) and where/how to get it nearby for accidents and make the emergency trip there and watch her take that shit.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFeWw2YFXlM

    @Rollo @The Question
    I’m 50/50 that Roosh will even attend any of the meetups himself lol Or travel anywhere any of his crew says he’s travelling to etc. There’s no real benefit to him, he gets the publicity either way. Hell, the whole thing could’ve started as just a troll-job on his part…but his followers don’t seem to be real bright and I can see them meeting up without clueing in that they’re exposing themselves for nothing but his benefit as an aging PUA who has no other real skillset to fund the rest of his life on.

    Tyler put up another new video showing the faces of his students (in full cult worship mode too lol) and I totally don’t approve of that shit.

    Can’t wait to see Elam’s public show of support for Roosh’s rape-advocate crews now that they’re BFFs.

    “Call me crazy, but it seems almost like Roosh is trying to force a confrontation of some sorts and create a crisis or conflict.”

    This. Heavy use of “if the economy collapses or there’s race wars etc” type lingo in his descriptions of these things for his “end of western society” conspiracy nut crew to feast on…would be a huge ammo boost for their paranoia if some kind of conflict started up from Roosh goading it.

    If you want to have a meetup for the betterment of men, cool, coordinate that in private. But there’s zero benefit to publically advertising this thing, unless you’re Roosh and trying to become an e-celeb off notoriety.

    @digireaper

    Skip to 1:45 in this vid:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzqCZNqgeag&t=1m45s

    @Forge
    “The window can be literally a fraction of a second.”

    Have a default opener that works anywhere and you can just pull out at any time if you see that window and can’t think of anything. Even if it’s just “Hi, I’m Forge” Sometimes having too MANY options as an opener can freeze you up just as bad as not having any opener and that window is gone.

    “Like it needs to be a reflex”

    Yup. The cure is go out more and open immediately when you see a girl you want. Say you’re learning boxing and you get into a street fighter after your first year of it and you swing a fist or two but then revert to instinctive covering up and closing your eyes and get the shit beat out of you. You’d go to a boxing forum and ask “is this something that comes with practice or what?? I can throw a punch in the sparring ring but when I got jumped, man I just panicked” Same advice would apply, practice fighting more and even getting friends to jump/surprise you. Do it enough and it’ll become a reflex.

    A lot of guys get really good at night game and then can’t approach in the daytime because it’s not their comfort zone. I used to do daygame but I would need a few months to adjust to doing daygame again because I’ve been focusing on nightgame so much. Just neuroplasticity and all that, no big deal. Trust the process and push your comfort zone…follow the 3 second rule and have something prepared. Open with stupid shit and try to recover so your brain doesn’t think you need the “perfect” open to approach, etc etc

  29. @Rollo
    And of course lol:

    https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-53190-post-1209668.html#pid1209668

    I’d like to think it’s just him being so reactive that he has to go after a girl making fun of him on the internet, but shoe0nhead has shitloads more followers than him so it’s pretty standard “punch up for exposure” e-celeb growth tactics. And she always wins these exchanges with the manly neomasculine James Bond LARPers so I hope she engages lol

    It’s amazing to me that anyone could see this stuff and go “I want to join that movement!” though. But I can’t deny that I’ll be on the edge of my seat waiting to see what happens Saturday night lol

  30. @ YaReally

    I’ve touched on this before on my own site, but there’s is definitely a desire within the doom and gloom community to have The Big Crash come sooner rather than later, and my fear is they will push for something to make it happen now by escalating already heightened tensions. I get where they’re coming from, but life isn’t a video game or movie you can turn off, and if anyone thinks innocent people won’t be killed on both sides during any kind of conflict they need to brush up on their history.

    Interesting times, indeed.

  31. @ YaReally

    This is admittedly threadjacking the OT, but I wanted to add that this move by Roosh baffles me because Quintus has written about Irish guerrilla leader Michael Collins before – he knows that movements like these are easily destroyed by informants and infiltrators. It’s such a blatant move.

  32. “I never really considered squirrel hunting or wild-turkey hunting. ”

    For whatever reason turkey hunting has never appealed to me either. I rather enjoy environmental varmint hunting, particularly for invasive species, but a nature preserve down the road apiece from me is being overrun by deer who figured out that it’s a gun free zone.

    And the deer are destroying the habitat of the species the preserve was formed to protect.

    Half the board are freaking about how to get rid of the deer, the other half are freaking about how people are talking about killing Bambi’s mom.

    The fact that it’s a firearm free zone is another problem. Bow and .177 pellets* only. I happen to like .177 pellets, but they’re not really on for deer, and I haven’t shot anything but straw with a bow for about 45 years.

    *The people who wrote the regs appear to be clueless. With airguns the “load” is in the gun, not the ammo. For some animals .22 is more humane because less likely to just wound and cripple, but, because of the ballistics of a heavier pellet at the same power, is actually less of a downrange threat.

  33. “Them’s some big fuckin’ squirrels.”

    Lol

    Hey YaReally, thanks for the input re: the girl from my old circles/flash approaching. I usually have some idea before I even ask but it’s a real boon to have my course of action guided by someone who’s been there. Saves me the blind alleys.

    I’m totally disconnected from the social circles I grew up in so there’s not too much potential drama w/ the one girl. So I think I’ll just abandon trying to get with her but meet up at some cool joint and use her as social proof. Maybe if she sees me making out with a few girls she’ll see me in a non-provider frame and jump me, lol that would be fine but I won’t make it the objective.

    @Glenn

    Bummer, badass for trying tho!

    I think 2016 does have the makings of a great year, ya. My thoughts:

    – fuck 2014. With a rusty hammer.
    – 2015 had its moments. Kinda a rollercoaster.
    – 2016 is the year legends are made.

    Re: ‘they just present themselves and you open:’ on my up days I feel super entitled to girls now. Like, I just think a girl is kinda weird if she doesn’t want to fuck me (just viscerally, I know logistics etc mean many won’t capitalize on the impulse). But there’s still a real gap between that and my reflexes in public. As both you and YaReally imply it really just needs to be a matter of consistent practice.

    Just gotta start talking to random people in public more. I open sets fairly quickly in night game now but there’s more of a window there since people tend to hang around a bit more.

  34. I keep on wanting to write to @Softek but other shit keeps distracting. Sorry man, I’m done now maybe tomorrow. SJF et al have your back in a serious way already, just have a few insights wrt the dynamics going on that might help illuminate.

  35. Forge

    Re opening, just go about your day saying Hi to as many women you come into contact with as possible. That’s it, dont save for hotties… Say hi to old ladies, fatties, married women… All of them. Dont bother worrying about pick up at all, just get used to the first 30 seconds.

    Hi. If they say Hi back you say something else… Nice day etc. And get 30 seconds back and forth and move on.

    Do this for a few weeks everyday, and watch what happens when you say it to a hottie you want. Ice cool…

    But some guys wont even take the easiest steps..

  36. @SJF

    I strongly, STRONGLY advise you to ask Rollo to remove the post with the photobucket linked picture in it. An enterprising SJW could find a ton of shit just from that one link.

  37. @Ya – Roger on way too much identifying info. Used to be more vigilant, have been starting to feel like this is my gang’s clubhouse – and it ain’t.

    @All – Those of you who know my name, can you please refrain from using it in comments anymore? Can’t erase the past but can go darker going forward…And remember, Ya’s cautions apply to us all – we aren’t women, we can lose our jobs/livelihood for speaking our minds…

  38. @newlyaloof

    “@Sentient, I like that. I was thinking similar humor (cause that’s my style):
    Me: “How’s the dog training going?”
    Girl: “Oh Great, blah blah.”
    Me: “Yeah, I feel I was a big part of that success. I’m like his big brother practically. What’s your name btw?” And take it from there.”

    Newly – something to think about. Can you spot the difference between my suggestion and yours? Yours is fine, it’s an open! But why settle for fine?

    It’s not in the verbal as much… though there is a bit that is more significant… See amplification here [in brackets]

    You: Oh good still training our dog.

    [note the use of OUR dog. Inside joke, puts you and her in the mystery together, also deflects/ignores her use of Our dog in her prior comment – IHABF = Newly DGAF]

    Her. bla blah blah
    You: lets try this, I will take him over there and you call and see if he comes

    [command situation and a compliance test!!!]

    Her OK

    [ok, well if she complies with your request what does that now tell you about her level of interest in you? Right? Always be seeding compliance tests. If she doesn’t comply what does that tell you? LOL]

    You: walk dog 15 feet away, pause and wait for her to call it, then turn around shake your head and slowly walk off.

    [subtle take away and neg]

    slowly walk off so she can catch up to you

    [more compliance testing and starting MOMENTUM, getting her to move in your direction]

    and when she comes close laugh and she will probably arm punch you or you can grab her and laugh,

    [setting up the interaction for proximity and natural kino from her to you and from you to her]

    then say, let’s take him for a walk and walk around the block chatting with her…

    [more kino opportunity, lead her and BOUNCE to instadate, more compliance]

    See how you can structure things to optimize the short windows? And you know the logistics of your area right? So you know where a coffee place is, or a restaurant, or a bar for a drink? Right????! So while you are walking you can just casually say, hey let’s pop in here for a sec, I need/want XYZ… and you have the momentum moving her along… And of course when you pop in these places the counter girls and waitresses all know you and say Hey Newly!!! and you get some preselection social proof goiing in your favor? Right???/!!!!

    elevate your game where you can by understanding the strategy and the tactics. Good luck!

  39. Apologies for the delay on the next post, but I’m waiting to see how certain events play out before I decide which to post.

    if Denver wins it will be a post on old man game

  40. @Sentient, I NOW see how much more “optimized” your approach is. My version has me standing there like a stand-up comic who will need more material right after the first salvo.

    That’s why having a forum like this is so damn valuable. Thanks man.

  41. @ScribblerG

    Sure thing, man.

    I’m not nearly as hardcore as YaReally wrt anonymity. I happen to not be overly vulnerable to SJW activity, so that’s part of it. If I got hit that way it would be just a temporary recalibration. And I could well come out the other side advantageously – SJW’s don’t understand power games well typically.

    But more than that, I just refuse to have the fabric of my life, my personality, and my thoughts censored. I’m not going to diminish the emotive and descriptive power of what I write here, the connection with my experience that makes things ring true, to reduce an already-small risk.

    If I drive a car I might crash. I’m still gonna drive a car. That said, I’m gonna have working airbags and I buckle the fuck up. I don’t use my name. I try to give a sense what my living area is like but occlude enough details that it can’t just be guessed (it’s not a huge place like NY or Dallas where it matters less). The job I say I have gives a good sense of what I do for context but isn’t actually my job. I’ll sometimes confuse days or give some girl different hair color or something in case someone who knows me is following along (in that case they could likely identify me but not the girl I’m talking about). Just basic stuff.

    The feel of everything is the same.

    Play guitar open mics? Say you fiddle in an amateur folk band. Work as a mechanic? Say you rebuild appliances. Have a non-public hobby you enjoy? Eh, just be upfront about that, no-ones gonna identify you with your passion for fly fishing or train spotting.

    That’s my balance.

  42. Also to add,

    I don’t post with this identity anywhere but on the androsphere. Or anywhere on the androsphere that’s inflammatory rather than serious discussion.

    Matt Forney got doxxed, gee I wonder why? Mike Cernovitch just puts himself out there as bait. That dude who got doxxed on trp Reddit recently was trolling a SJW friendly site basically. This shit ain’t hard to avoid.

  43. Thanks guys.

    I can understand why SJF’s comments on monogamous married man game with special compassion for the welfare of children would piss of SJW’s. (Well the red-pill game part of it anyway.)

    Maybe I shouldn’t lean out so close to my edge.

    (sarcasm not meant to be dismissive of your judicious comments)

  44. @SJF

    You probably have the least to worry about as far as the CONTENT of your posts but the mere fact that you are HERE would make you a target. SJWs don’t just want to burn down people like Roosh who are out there provoking them, they want to burn down everyone even tangentially associated with them for DARING to stomach the EXISTENCE of the manosphere or whatever.

    Rollo himself takes goes to great lengths to avoid politics, race, religion, etc because he’s not writing this blog to shit on people he doesn’t like, but to help men better themselves. Even the fact that he and Roosh are now completely at odds wouldn’t stop them from going after him simply because he writes about the same kinds of topics and at one time he wrote positively about Roosh. Tis the world we live in now.

    You have to think of them like the mafia and it’s like “Ya know SJF that’s a nice little (whatever) you’ve got there, be a shame if anything was to happen to it.”

    1. FWIW I’m convinced Roosh wants to incite a violent incident with these “tribal meetups”. He’s been actively pandering to media interests who are promoting these meetings as gatherings of “Rape Legalization Advocates” with no mention of any other purpose.

      The fact that he’s made a worldwide list of the locations public with no stated purpose for these tribes to even gather (beyond some nebulous meeting of “likeminded men”) only highlights the fact that he cares more about his own publicity than the real interests anonymity and safety of the men who buy into his neomasculine LARPing crap.

      If there was any prior doubt about his willingness to blow up the ‘sphere for his own lack of personal foresight there shouldn’t be now.

  45. @Forge – Re: your last comment. That would argue for managing your state more effectively, yes? I’ve taken to do a few minutes journaling and visualizing my day every morning recently. Create a vision for the day, just a few things I want to get done, have happen, not just about productivity but also eating healthy and hanging with friends etc.. Positive and affirming. Sounds squishy but really helping me to get my day of to a positive, calm start. For me, anxiety is my soul crusher so it’s especially important for me.

  46. “You probably have the least to worry about as far as the CONTENT of your posts but the mere fact that you are HERE would make you a target. SJWs don’t just want to burn down people like Roosh who are out there provoking them, they want to burn down everyone even tangentially associated with them for DARING to stomach the EXISTENCE of the manosphere or whatever.”

    I think that this broad-spectrum sorta purge can happen but is very unlikely at this stage.

    Think about the fundamental motivations behind SJW activity. Why do they do what they do? Because of deeply-held ideals? For actual justice? Nah. It’s about generating righteous outrage, schadenfreude, and letting people see them being righteously outraged.

    How effectively does doxxing random commenter X on website Y tangentially associated with person Z that we hate accomplish that?

    Look at who they target: a) people who provoke anger in them, usually by posting shit around where they post (this creates a sense of righteousness by ‘getting him back’); b) people that they can individually erect a monstrosity narrative around by dint of their saying outrageous things (creating outrage and good feels for ‘taking them down’); and c) public figures they’re trying to smear anyways (creating a sense of power and generating attention for ‘whistle-blowing’ on some sort of public figure).

    We only really need to watch out for that when the androsphere becomes a mainstream target of outrage. Which could happen in the future and the internet is forever and all, so if it gets really bad ya they could trawl the archives and put shit together. But that would take things going really south, usually they won’t put the effort in. Doxxings tend to happen when someone finds a prominently-posted portrait or something then reverse google searches it or otherwise just goes for some direct line of correlation.

  47. since we are reduced to scavenging for food, I mean posts, here’s a letter in today’s Dear Abby (I took out some filler):

    DEAR ABBY: My girlfriend of two years was offered the opportunity to travel to Nepal. Leading up to the trip I tried not to be jealous, but I did say some childish things. However I told her she should enjoy herself.

    She emailed me a couple of nights ago about how she and two of her male guides went to a bar together where she got drunk. They plan on going to the club again later during the trip. I trust my girlfriend, but I can’t help but worry that she may be taken advantage of. — LEFT AT HOME IN FLORIDA

    DEAR LEFT AT HOME: It’s one thing to be open-minded and quite another to be so open-minded your brains fall out.

    http://www.uexpress.com/dearabby/2016/2/3/woman-on-egg-donor-registry-need

  48. @Scribblerg

    “That would argue for managing your state more effectively, yes? I’ve taken to do a few minutes journaling and visualizing my day every morning recently. Create a vision for the day, just a few things I want to get done, have happen, not just about productivity but also eating healthy and hanging with friends etc.. “

    Yeah, I need to be more mindful and less chaotic about things. My energy goes in all sorts of random directions, some productive some not so much.

    I never seem to be able to get in a groove where I get up at the same time, eat at the same time, meditate, work out (I work out like crazy or not at all lol), all that shit. I’m a man of chaos, not rhythm. It tends to mean that I become competent at a lot of things but masterful at very few. It tends to mean flashes of brilliance at work etc followed by periods of stagnation. There’s just no steady uphill grind. Except in core mindset, which is great but not sufficient.

    I’m not quite sure how to combat that. I’ll give starting the day out with creating a vision a go. If not that, maybe I just need more timed external responsibilities. Like, if I have to train my sister for the sport she plays I’ll work out more consistently; if I have to make food for someone else besides myself I’ll be up on time to do it. Etc.

    Modern life gives guys like me too much freedom lol.

  49. Right guys:

    On anonymity – I posted a longer version of this a few posts ago but I can’t find it now. Basically what YaReally said about keeping your stuff private but remember there are two kinds of anonymity:

    1. There is being anonymous to a stranger reading your comments trying to track you down. This isn’t difficult to achieve and most of us do it, but some of the recent comments (scribblerg and SJF etc) have probably made it possible even for strangers to find you.

    2. Then there is being anonymous TO SOMEONE WHO KNOWS YOU IN REAL LIFE. Most people forget this and don’t think about it – it CAN happen people (on a non-pickup level, I have been identified on an online forum for people in my line of work). Think about whether Bob in Accounting in your company can ID you from your posts – ALL your posts. Everything I post is true, but I am never specific about location or identifying details. And I change minor identifying details which don’t affect the story but which make identifying me very difficult EVEN to someone I know. So for example, if I say I spoke to a 19 year old, it may have been a 20 year old. If I’m talking about a date on Wednesday, it may have been on Tuesday..that sort of thing.

    @digireaper – Great work dude. You’ve had some good advice already but just to add: I don’t go out all that much. I have about 10 days every 6 weeks or so when work goes cyclically quiet, so if you see my posts in that period it looks like I go out a lot more than I do. The point being that you can only do what your life circumstances allow and go out as much possible. As long as you’re doing your best, that’s all anyone can do. That said – most people DON’T DO ANYWHERE NEAR THEIR BEST. I have made some pretty solid financial and career sacrifices to be able to get even this much time – and right now in my life I am comfortable it’s the best I can do. But as YaReally will tell you – if this is enough of a priority you ShOULD be willing to (for example) move to a bigger city with more chicks or move to the college district or whatever. Look carefully at your life – as long as you’re sure you’re doing the best you can – that’s fine. And remember that consistency is more important in a lot of ways than total time – in most cases you can (at a minimum) afford to walk around downtown for 20 minutes opening a few girls at lunchtime or on your way home. Or flirt a bit with the secretary at work..or whatever. You can build it into your life. As far as wingmen go – I don’t know where you live (you don’t have to tell us) – but look for local private PUA lairs and WhatsApp groups for wingmen. It’s more word-of-mouth so you need to enter it..try the big forums – the RSD forum, Love Systems, maybe PUA Zone etc and they have wingmen sections where you can meet guys and go from there. But as long as you’re making an effort, going out and reporting back and reflecting on your experiences..that’s great.

    @scribblerg – only to say great going. See how quickly the rush becomes addictive? Remember the rush isn’t to do with the girls’ response (mostly) – it’s YOU feeling pumped because YOU took action. YOU control your state. And it IS an amazing feeling when you see someone on here describe something and SEE it work in real life (I remember the first time a memorised Mystery Method neg worked perfectly on an HB8 in 2006..or more recently when lasering worked for the first time after failing to make it work on previous attempts). Also remember even if you DON’T bang the matrix chick next time you’re in NYC, that doesn’t take away from your success in this interaction – the fact that logistics failed or her attraction diminished or whatever doesn’t take away from a great play on your part now.

    @Forge – great work on spotting stuff in real time. It’s just a question of practice. Once you soak in enough knowledge in your brain (which you definitely have) and you think about it enough (which you obviously do) – you start to see it in real time. At first you’ll think thirty minutes later “Wait..I think that girl was checking me out”. Then a few minutes later, then seconds later, then in real time and then FINALLY quickly enough to actually take action in the micro-window (at which point you will need not just the ability to spot the window but the trust in your instincts to take the action without hesitation and fully committed). See some of Sentient’s and HABD’s FRs for more of these micro-openings or occasionally mine (for example I posted something about a flickering of EC recently when some girl in a coffee shop asked if the seat next to me was taken, or I made a flash of EC with a girl in a shop window when walking through the mall – and when you trust your instincts you just KNOW. But those windows close FAST). Hmm..actually I think a lot of those FRs were posted in the CH comments..but maybe a few here too. The point of the FRs isn’t just entertainment – it shows you what is POSSIBLE. If I hadn’t seen some of Sentient’s FRs about micro-windows, I’d never have KNOWN that the brief flash of EC I had walking past the shop meant anything. If I hadn’t read pickup and fast lay then a couple of years ago when I got my first toilet BJ, I wouldn’t even have KNOWN it was possible and I wouldn’t have tried to pull the girl. And so on.

    Good luck

  50. @ YaReally

    My friend might be fucked. Good chance he got this girl pregnant. I’m worried for him. Hoping that doesn’t happen, shit.

    I’ve had a couple scares. Like she’d be blowing me, obviously without a condom on, and then get on top of me and start fucking me. Never came inside her once but it’s been kind of scary feeling like she’s tried to do that.

    And I always take a piss sometime before going at it; I remember reading that that clears any leftover sperm from the last ejaculation out of the urethra.

    Anal has freaked me out a little bit. That cum is in there; what if it leaks out or something?

    One thing I’ve been experimenting with is not cumming at all. Obviously doing this without a condom is still risky. Read a fair amount about the pullout method and have been using that a lot, unfortunately the allure of how good it feels comes with a lot of risk. I’m at fault there and I need to figure out how to control myself because this is juggling grenades big time.

    Fatal trap here is being deprived of sex for so long and having a hard time controlling myself. Juggling hand grenades would probably be safer in the long run, lol.

    I’ve always refused to cum in her pussy, or cum on it, or get cum anywhere near it. Freaks me out. She’s wanted me to. At first, I was way too hesitant to have sex at all — my fear of getting a girl pregnant actually made me OVER paranoid, like I couldn’t even imagine fucking a girl with a condom on because I thought it was too risky. Now I’ve swung in the opposite direction.

    But back to not cumming: it can kind of suck, because the urge is so strong, but I think between using a condom and not cumming at all, you’re pretty solid. I actually feel better after sex when I don’t cum. I know that sounds crazy, but there’s no ‘dip’ in my energy or change in my mood/ambition.

    One thing I like to do is just keep fucking her, and control myself so I don’t cum, and just keep going until I get so tired that I can’t keep my dick up anymore. Then I couldn’t cum even if I wanted to. And I usually feel pretty tired and pretty satisfied after.

    It is scary if she goes to spit it out after a blowjob. That doesn’t always happen. Most of the time it will be right in front of me; she won’t hide in the bathroom or anything. The couple times she did I got pretty nervous.

    It’s a little scary thinking how much I’m in over my head here.

    It’s my first experience like this, and to be dealing with a potentially cluster B situation, with an Epiphany/Transition phase girl, who has explicitly told me more than once she wants to have kids with me….shit.

    Then being emotionally fucked up from scarcity mentality. I never had sex before and this has been a huge shift for me. Basically I feel like I’m 15 or something, emotionally speaking. This is the kind of shit that more people go through when they’re around that age. I never went through that and never got the experience, whereas she’s had YEARS and YEARS, probably over 10-12 boyfriends, etc., and I more or less don’t have much of an idea of what the fuck I’m doing.

    Throw on top of that her telling me she’s madly in love with me, she cares about me, etc. I know better, but it’s still a major headfuck.

    Never once in my life have I told someone I love them if I didn’t mean it, and that’s a policy I have. I never cross that line. I know not everyone is like that. So it kind of fucks with my head to hear her say it because I myself would never say that to anyone if I knew I didn’t really, truly mean it.

    I’ve managed to distance myself a bit emotionally, especially after hearing about my friend getting his girlfriend pregnant ‘by accident.’ I mean, there’s a CHANCE she isn’t, but probably not. That’s scary as hell.

    Buckling my seatbelt here.

    Anal has been really infrequent: is there a significant risk there for pregnancy, or am I overthinking things? Is cum really going to leak out and get in her pussy or something? We always clean each other up, wherever all the cum goes after she gives me a handjob or something.

    Anyway, yeah, the not cumming thing, thank the Taoists. I’d rather enjoy sex and not worry about pregnancy. Every time I’ve used the pullout method, I didn’t cum until WAY after I pulled out.

    Almost came in her pussy the other night raw, and pulled out and came, but that scared the FUCK out of me.

    She also told me recently if she ever got pregnant with me she wouldn’t get an abortion, that that isn’t an option.

    I am basically literally dancing around in a ring of fire with burning coals under my feet at this point. If I knew any of you guys in person I might ask you to slap me in the face and have a talk with me. I’ve lucked out so far but yeah, juggling hand grenades, shit.

    I’m taking today to myself to think about things. Thanks for the support so far guys, I really appreciate it.

  51. @The Question, Rollo et al – I’m a student of revolutions and how they occur and I think Roosh is very much about kicking off something of this sort based on the messaging and people involved. Talk of the Irish revolutions and his constant “defense” of tradition and posing as some kind of social commentator and activist all jibe with the kind of rhetoric revolutionary leaders engage in. He’s also cultivating a closed following that tolerates no dissent – I was banned on Rok two years ago for laughing about Roosh’s political, economic and historical ideas. For those here who are tempted by such ideas, I encourage you to slow down. Before you tear everything down, understand what we have and how it works, and your chances of changing it. If anyone would like me to post a reading list that will get you off the feral anarchic ledge, let me know and I’ll post it.

    That said, I think he’s going for it. Provocateurs always bait their opposition. Consider Che Guevara, or the founders of the U.S. The best single book on the American revolution is A Struggle for for Power by Theodore Draper. In it, he largely uses the written words of both English and American actors in the 20+ year runup to revolution. And for those who think I’m some raving right winger, and are somewhat intellectual about all this, note that Draper was a “materialist” who wrote the book to bolster an innately Marxist view of American history. Nonetheless, seeing their own words and concerns sequenced so well is eye opening. This ain’t your grandpa’s revolution.

    But even then, the revolution has to always come from the bottom up, as it did in the U.S. or the Ukraine. Sure, elites use the masses for their purposes to displace other elites, but one has to get the masses engaged. It usually gets kicked off accidentally, as the U.S. revolution did.

    Of course Roosh is an imbecile about such matters, and my guess is that he’s not read any of the actual work available in political science on how revolutions work. If it’s just the “masses” – it doesn’t work. Yet, in fact, it doesn’t require a majority of the population either, but it has to include the major institutions that could stop you. In the U.S., a revolution that didn’t have the backing of the military will simply not occur. But once they back it, boom, game over, as it has the most power by far of any institution in the U.S., and overlaps with the police (not true in many other societies).

    A little primer:
    You don’t even need 1% in agreement to have a revolution, just a decent sized cadre who are coherent at the center. They have to exercise positive control over another few percent of the population, who in turn can exert positive control over at least 25% of a population.

    Then you have to pressure the institutions that are resistant to join you by threatening them with extinction. You do this by controlling the most powerful institution in society, in some societies other institutions control the military so you can get them by proxy. Example; Ayatollah controls Iranian Revolutionary Guard. Or they have weak militaries so a militia with foreign backing, like the U.S. revolution (the Brits never put their full effort in the U.S. to defeat our forces and without the French we don’t win).

    Roosh has thought of none of this. He’s a man-child on a LARP. He’s going to get some people hurt – his own. He’s a PUA run amok, a cult leader of nihilist sub-par intellects who live in a fantasy world. They’ll never get anywhere. Ever. The meta game for Roosh is building wealth, but he likely lies even to himself about that. Think about it, this is a guy who decided to flush a promising career in biology down the toilet in favor of being a PUA/PUA trainer. He didn’t even think hard enough to realize that this would not satisfy him forever. Then he hits an existential crisis in his 30s and embraces traditionalism? This is someone anyone with brains admires? Why, because he emits edgy rhetoric? Fucking fools, anyone who hasn’t abandoned him by this point deserves what they get. And it will be with a fizzle, not a big bang. Roosh is irrelevant in terms of scale and influence to affect any real change.

    I don’t think he’s a complete con artist though. I think he’s just good at kidding himself. I see this in entrepreneurs who have had one success quite often. They presume they have the “golden touch” because of one success and attribute it to their own greatness. This is widely studied in finance and economics, fyi, and what most successful people don’t understand is that circumstance and fortune play a much greater role than they would like to see. It’s called an “attribution error”. As an aside, entrepreneurial irrationality is eusocial in that it benefits society greatly but rarely the individual entrepreneur due to asymmetric returns (low downside for society, but huge upside). Sigh…Okay, back to work.

    1. Roosh is concerned with just one thing, reinventing himself in such a way that he can make a living after realizing he’s built exactly nothing for himself over the course of the past 10 years.

      He sees guys like Mike Cernovich and Milo Yianopolus playing in a sandbox he thinks he can get a piece of.

      My concern, as it was last summer is that his priority is finding a new revenue stream at the expense of the manosphere.

  52. @ Rollo Tomassi

    I’m working on a post about this at my place, but I think what we might be seeing with Roosh is the phenomenon of the rise of the “untouchables.” These are modern men who have no wife, no child, no house, no strong ties and no liabilities, possibly no long-term career or one that doesn’t pay. They may also have no student loans and no credit card debt, but most importantly they have no hope of marrying and having a family, either by choice or by necessity. They can’t get regular jobs due to their personalities or their Internet activity. Aaron Clarey referred to them once as the “unemployables.”

    They are untouchable because they have little to lose, no one who depends on them or to care for, and they’d rather have something bad happen than to live a banal life, so these escalations only feed into their need for greater meaning.

    I would be lying if I said I never felt that way at times, but frankly I see little strategic value in this move. The MSM’s depiction of them will be the official face of the manosphere and if any violence is inflicted on them at the end of the week it will only add fuel to the SJW fire. Also, Roosh should know if this blows up in his face, it is going to affect the entire manosphere and those who had nothing to do with it – and who have more to lose than their reputation.

    The best hope for the manosphere is to spread the Red Pill individually and let changes occur on that level, one person at a time. Change that happens suddenly almost always happens violently.

  53. I’m wondering why he just doesn’t then apply to a place like Breitbart and get a job there doing the exact same thing. He’s different enough from Milo (or Milo different from everyone else?) to carve out his own niche and use his previous work as a reference and possible bring new traffic to their sites. He’d have to give up his autonomy by working for them, but there’s always a price to pay.

  54. @TheQuestion

    Roosh should just start talking about how the illuminati are behind feminism and get hired by Alex Jones

  55. Forge
    I never seem to be able to get in a groove where I get up at the same time, eat at the same time, meditate, work out (I work out like crazy or not at all lol), all that shit. I’m a man of chaos, not rhythm. It tends to mean that I become competent at a lot of things but masterful at very few. It tends to mean flashes of brilliance at work etc followed by periods of stagnation. There’s just no steady uphill grind. Except in core mindset, which is great but not sufficient.

    Sometimes I think that men can be divided into “agrarians” and “hunters”. Agrarians are those who can make a routine work for them without too much effort; they go to bed at the same time each night, wake up at the same time each morning, and so forth. Till then plant in season, hoe weeds in season, harvest in season, fix tools in the winter. The hunters get bored with routine. Sorta like women…heh. Bursts of energy followed by periods of lassitude – chase that mammal down and kill it, then chop it up and take meat back to the den, then hang out for a while sort of thing.

    Maybe start with getting up at the same time and always eating right at the start of the day, then mapping out the rest of the day. Exercise when possible. Eat sparingly. Make it like jazz – a basic melody that you riff off of.

    Some men have done great things in the “flashes of brilliance followed by lassitude” model but that doesn’t fit well with just any paid work.

    1. Imagine Breitbart hires “the infamous PUA who’s written lay guides on a dozen countries for a decade, who is also know across the planet as the guy who endorses legalizing rape on private property.”

      Roosh has only one option, be a solo outrage pundit and hope he gets paid interviews.

  56. @ Rollo Tomassi

    It’s almost like MSM and SWJs crave indignation and he provides it.

    http://therationalmale.com/2011/10/17/indignation/

    “In the absence of indignation, women will actively manufacture it for themselves.”

    If what you say is true, Roosh is looking to manufacture it for a living and develop a Joker-Batman relationship where they need him as much as they hate him.

    What would they do without him? Go back to manufacturing their own indignation?

  57. RooshV couldn’t even keep a job at MacD now

    “Hey are you that legal rape guy?”

    LTR, forget about it, and sex, a woman accusing of him rape can send him to jail

  58. @Rollo YaReally

    ok, you guys have suuuuuucccckkkkkkeeeddddd me back in…F*k!!!…lol…i’m not getting ANY work done…lol…

    here’s some info on roosh’s ‘thing’…and how it’s playing out in the real world…

    up til last night i didn’t have any idea what was going on. i knew you guys were talking about him doing something and trying to copy julien in australia…but it didn’t register bc it wasn’t really important to me…lol…

    BUT, last night my wife (all wound up) comes over to me at the table and tells me…

    her: “have you heard about this group that wants to legalize RAPE?!!!! WTF!!!” the group is called return of kings!!…

    me: (playing dumb…bc i was…lol) no. sounds stupid…(lol…)

    her: (all indignant) they’re trying to have meetups around the world to legalize rape!!! (note – from her attitude there was NO hint of even the possibility of this being ‘satire’ or some kind of publicity stunt…so, the FI is in play…)

    me: you know, i’m cynical about stuff in the media…that doesn’t sound real…maybe whoever is doing it has a book or video or something like a reality show coming out…and just needs publicity…

    her: no!…given his name…it’s val…something… he sounds like he’s from south america!!! (like that was the worst thing EVER…lol)…but he’s living in the US now… he’s trying to legalize RAPE!!!!

    me (trying to be rational, but knowing it’s a lost cause…lol): what are the odds that they could even get a bill introduced…

    her: (almost hysterical = no reasoning with her…lol…note for the peanut gallery – this is what happens when girls start to ramp their emotions looking for a frame to push against…lol…’logic’ stops…lol)) NO!!!…they really COULD get rape legalized!!!!…

    me (getting tired of this and deciding to turn it around/stop it…): that certainly WOULD be terrible…(there’s the AGREE… and here’s the AMPLIFY…) but for right now, the only kind of rape YOU need to be worried about is from me…bc I’VE been practicing my KNOTS!…[laser eyes/smirk…waggle my eyebrows…lol]…

    her: What?…(and i watch as it registers… and her hindbrain kicks back in its hammock and her hamster does a couple of half-ass jogs on the wheel…lol…)

    her (her demeanor completely changes to feminine/sexualized and receptive…lol…completely forgetting how indignant she had been just a second ago…lol): [she giggles] oh… well… i still think it’s bad… (then, she just leaves to go back to whatever she was doing…lol)
    —-

    so, given my wife’s reaction…roosh is setting himself up for some MAJOR problems…especially once the FI starts to roll…lol

    although she’s pretty well plugged into the MSM, my wife doesn’t know anything about red-pill/blue pill, pua, etc…(not that it would matter…it’s just another angle for shit tests to vector on…lol…)

    note for married men working on changing your marriage – regarding our marriage ‘turning around’/getting better = she noticed THAT…lol…but, i just told her that it’s probably bc we are ‘growing together’ in our relationship, you know, like what is SUPPOSED to happen when you’re married…lol…feeding her that blue pillism bs gave her hamster something to work with…lol…

    good luck!

  59. @digireaper

    props on going out…put in the work and you WILL get better…

    “Besides, getting in to a club costs money and at this moment I feel that I’m wasting my money since I can only be on a club for a couple of hours before getting burned out, and my game performance is just pathetic.”

    do you have any of these around you?…a mall, coffee shops, bookstores, grocery stores, etc. if yes, then day game doesn’t cost you any money…lol…and you can ‘day game’ at night, too…lol…and most of these places are open at night…

    also, it’s not a ‘waste’ of money if you actually get out into venues…even if you just get comfortable with the vibe…it all adds up…and if you are getting ‘burned out’ now, that is just you ‘getting in your reps’…bc you would eventually have to build up your stamina anyway…

    good luck!

  60. @digireaper

    also…

    “Only bland 2 minute “conversations”. I definitely feel some social situations being a little bit easier though.”

    that’s the very first step is developing as a mighty slayer of poon…lol…(not kidding…)

    good luck!

  61. @Forge

    props on putting in the work…

    from YaReally:

    “Trust the process and push your comfort zone…follow the 3 second rule and have something prepared. Open with stupid shit and try to recover so your brain doesn’t think you need the “perfect” open to approach, etc etc”

    here, let me ftfy…

    Trust the process and push your comfort zone…follow the 3 second rule and have something prepared. Open with “Stupid Shit…” and try to recover so your brain doesn’t think you need the “perfect” open to approach, etc etc

    lol…(only partly kidding…)

    AND you can start to practice your ‘non-verbal opens’…just lock her gaze when you see her…then, try to hold it as long as you can (don’t forget the smirk)…and watch her to see what happens…lol…(this will feel like you are being ‘rude’…lol…that’s the FI pushing on you…)

    from Sentient:

    “Re opening, just go about your day saying Hi to as many women you come into contact with as possible. That’s it, dont save for hotties… Say hi to old ladies, fatties, married women… All of them. Dont bother worrying about pick up at all, just get used to the first 30 seconds.

    Hi. If they say Hi back you say something else… Nice day etc. And get 30 seconds back and forth and move on.

    Do this for a few weeks everyday, and watch what happens when you say it to a hottie you want. Ice cool…”

    +1…

    good luck!

  62. @The Question – Did you actually suggest that Roosh could get a job at Breitbart? Because they hired Milo? Milo was and is a real journalist and had been for 10 years before getting on at Breitbart. And while he’s wild and provocative, he’s no “race realist” and doesn’t encourage many of the sordid practices Roosh has done and still does. I’m left wondering – do you not realize what a scumbag Roosh is or do you think that Breitbart would ever promote that crap? Seriously, WTF?

    I think some men in the manosphere have normalized “alt right” and women demonizing and degrading so much that they don’t realize how far out of the mainstream they really are, and how fucked in the head they are. Which is one of the reasons my only point of participation in the manosphere is here. While I no longer have women on a pedestal, I do enjoy them immensely…

  63. HABD
    note for married men working on changing your marriage – regarding our marriage ‘turning around’/getting better = she noticed THAT…lol…but, i just told her that it’s probably bc we are ‘growing together’ in our relationship, you know, like what is SUPPOSED to happen when you’re married

    Right, “show”, don’t “tell”. Explaining women to women is like the teacher in the old Peanuts cartoons, all they hear is “wah, waaah, wahh, wahhh”.

    Younger women aren’t as plugged into the MSM, but they are more plugged into social media, which is in some ways even worse.

  64. @Dutchman

    ok, one more, then i’m out for awhile…not kidding this time…lol

    i wanted to give you some stuff to work on/with…YaReally and SJF have pointed out that it’s easy to burn down your situ…and that’s certainly possible from one perspective…but i’ve been thinking about this, and i’m pretty sure it’s possible to turn around a marriage without that much risk.

    (disclaimer – i’m just some goof on the interwebs, and i just thought of this today…so, DO NOT listen to me…bc the peer review study is not finalized, yet…lol)

    now, ((I)) didn’t do it this way…i went full pua, so take it for what it’s worth, but pua involves spiking girls emotions hard and fast to get some emotional investment from her early…and to get her on that rollercoaster…

    BUT, girls that are already IN an ltr/marriage have different issues…

    (and i just figured this out today…lol…so, it’s maybe not completely well thought out…lol)

    they already have SOME kind of a rollercoaster/investment going with their husband – good, bad or indifferent – so, all you need to do is change the focus of the interactions. now, it won’t be easy, bc you still have to deal with shit tests, etc… BUT i think it can be done with complete plausible deniability…lol…and no burn down needed…

    if you want to try this, your new attitude is ‘she’s just a silly girl’ (which is WHERE you will end up IF you turn the marriage around…)…and EVERYTHING that she throws at you via ‘shit tests’ is going to get this:

    either actual or figurative…[eye roll and ‘not this again’ face…] then [back turn]…(but no verbal escalation) OR [if no back turn = change subject = redirect her focus to something YOU choose…and i mean that exactly…you will NOT engage on ANY TOPIC she brings up…that’s how you are going to get your ‘hand’ back…you CAN and WILL bring up topics she brought up, but on your schedule…]…your biggest challenge is going to be spotting these in real time…lol…just default to the eye roll until you can tell the difference…lol

    if you address the content of her words = fail…it will seem rude…and she will use that as leverage…FI is in play…

    this is all non-verbal, but WILL draw a massive onslaught of shit tests…lol…bc it’s a new dynamic that is being introduced to the relationship…and so, will upset the balance of power…(which is what you want, so YOU can get hand…)

    it’s also you asserting to her hindbrain that you are an alpha stud…so, her hindbrain is going to test you…HARD…just be ready for that…

    the idea is that since you are going to end up in this dynamic anyway (if your marriage improves/survives), you should just adopt this dynamic and stick it out…no ‘burning down’ necessary…lol…you just have to maintain a solid frame (non-reactive, she’s just a silly girl) while she tests and pushes against that frame…

    now, what’s going to be tougher, is that you will NOT be pushing back…at least not yet…that’s where the ‘deniability comes from…lol…(but don’t get into ‘denying’ bc that’s beta/reactive…i’m just talking about conceptually)

    you won’t be actively pushing her frame back, so it will take longer for her to trust your frame as solid, but you won’t have the risk of a mistake…it’s a passive reset…

    every third shit test, you can add in a ‘sigh’ when you do the eye roll…lol…think ‘not this shit again’, but don’t say it…and you can shake your head too a little…lol

    that’s the stick…lol…

    now, here’s the carrot…

    now, in addition to this (dismissing her frame), you will ALSO be leading her mood from bad to good (reinforcing YOUR frame as the solid and fun (safe and secure) place to be)…use some happy upbeat music to change her state, but make sure you are the one LEADING her there…(note – she WILL resist this…lol…doesn’t matter what she does, just keep after it until she engages with you and her mood turns around…and then count that as a win…)

    you: i’ve noticed you seem kind of down today… here, let me change that…(see that dynamic in play?) listen to this…[play ‘Happy’…lol]

    you: hey, kids…come here…let’s have a dance party!…get out of your head and into your body!… (try to channel vince vaughn…lol)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbZSe6N_BXs

    (YaReally at :24…lol…i’m at :49..and me and my posse out sarging at 2:29…lol…)

    make a ‘happy happy’ mix tape…not kidding (this is part of logistics on getting laid…lol) put it on your phone/ipod so it’s always handy…then dance around in the kitchen (get the kids involved too)…make it a jam session…lol…and DO NOT stop until she gives in and dances too (you will SEE the distrust in her eyes and the fear/doubts that you really ARE somebody she can push against…bc you’ve failed her so many times in the past…)…it might take hours…not kidding (depending on your current dynamic…so have that much on the mix tape…how much do you love her?…)

    but just keep at it…bc this is the turning point (not kidding…how much effort would you put into saving your marriage if this was IT?…), just know that she WANTS to believe that you’re an alpha stud, but she’s been disappointed so many times already that it’s hard for her to believe it…

    now, for the important stuff…here’s how you get laid…lol…with authentic desire sex…(and when it happens, you don’t have to go all james deen on her, but it wouldn’t hurt to know how to pull her hair a little and ‘choke’ her a little…lol…not kidding…look up how…bc her hindbrain is going to be expecting SOME ‘dominance’ and you really should deliver…lol)

    once you get started with these two things (carrot and stick), you will have started to change your relationship, so here’s how you get her to chase you…right into bed…

    the next time you spend the day together (after the dance party…lol) you will start to sexualize EVERY interaction with her…and you can even tell her that you are going to ‘do’ her so good that night…lol…she will shit test you, but just ignore that…(this is going to set up the takeaway/dread later = get her to chase you)…BUT you will NOT touch her…NO physical ANYTHING directed at her…not kidding…don’t slip up bc this will kill getting her chasing you…and she WILL try to get you to approach her physically bc THAT’s the shit test = you don’t have options…she might even hold out her arms for a hug…just don’t…(tell her ‘you’ll just have to wait…’, then smirk at her…)

    so…after you’ve been sexualizing interactions with her all day, you will stop after dinner and no more sexualizing…that’s the take away…

    and it’s setting up this…dread…at some time between dinner and bed, and after you have stopped sexualizing, you will ask her ‘say, is OC going to be at the party this weekend?…” (or whatever your situ is, where you MIGHT meet OC…lol)…then, just change subject or stay quiet…

    then, you just let her hamster work it’s magic…lol

    she will shit test you on this comment…just say ‘no reason…’ or ‘just popped into my head’ or whatever dismissive comment, then just shut up…and do your thing…away from her…

    then, at bed time, you will conveniently ‘forget’ that you were going to sex her up…she will shit test you on this…just tell her you are tired and going to sleep (no physical approach to her at all…not even a kiss) then, just let her hamster spin…

    note – she might NOT approach you, but YOU don’t do anything…repeat the same thing again the next day…until she cracks…lol…and throw in a random comment about OC’s husband being sick…her hamster will spin that up…lol)

    when she DOES approach you, sex her up good…bc THAT should be desire sex…

    good luck!

  65. @Dutchman @HABD
    “then, at bed time, you will conveniently ‘forget’ that you were going to sex her up…she will shit test you on this…just tell her you are tired and going to sleep (no physical approach to her at all…not even a kiss) then, just let her hamster spin…”

    This reminds me of the late great Patrice O’Neal’s advice when your wife won’t put out (44:21):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYCFjyDOKF0&t=44m21s

    This is some advanced shit lol I haven’t tried this but what he’s saying DOES make sense in terms of chick psychology. Something to consider lol

    Highly recommend listening to Patrice’s YouTube stuff about women and relationships etc. Dude is red pill through and through, tons of wisdom in his advice.

  66. Sun Wukong,

    half an hour away

    Wait, this is DALLAS you’re talking about and people are put off by a mere half-hour drive?

    My how things have changed.

    Culum,

    [Taleb is] also a devotee of going from the ground up empirically – seeing what works and building on that, instead of top down theory to the facts on the ground.

    Indeed. If a theory is not at the very least explanatory, and also in most cases predictive, then it’s just empty words.

  67. “note – she might NOT approach you, but YOU don’t do anything…repeat the same thing again the next day…until she cracks…lol…and throw in a random comment about OC’s husband being sick…her hamster will spin that up…lol)”

    I try this all the time. Doesn’t work. Dinner/Bed time routine with little kids kills ANY sexual tension built up throughout the day.

  68. @Dutchman

    Hehe, nope. I have tried, but I just get tired of waiting. I usually just start over again after the kids go to bed, and that gets her in the mood. Might be worth a try though. Everyone’s situation is different.

  69. Dutchman / HABD

    and related to Ya’s Patrice video… The take away and dread spikes HABD outlines above will absolutely change your wife’s behaviors…

    especially if you absent mindedly mention her friend she saw being into you… “OC… how much do you think she weighs?” or “She looks like she has been dieting” or something like that will kick the hamster right in the ass hard…

    And the sexual takeaway is nuclear… because that is the very last card in her Rolodex…

    Did it a few time’s, without Patrice’s sexing up of the wife… Just mid sex, getting shit tested with a lack of enthusiasm or complaints/non-compliance… just stopped and said nothing or just said “meh – this is boring” and rolled over. Goodnight! with a pleasant tone.

    Boom….

    One time I left the shower we were taking and she was literally screaming down the hall for me to come back in so she could finish me… I chuckled mightily as I got dressed just thinking of the irony…

    The first BJ I had after almost decade… she declined the night before, said something like “I don’t like that anymore” and I shrugged and said “Huh” and stopped everything else and went to bed. The next night when we were alone she practically raped me, ripped my shirt off, pulled my pants down and went to town like the champ she is… As I was about to cum I tapped her, stupidly to warn her, and she just giggled(!) and picked up speed, swallowed every drop which was the norm. She was the most turned on I had seen her in a loooooong time. Fully flushed head to toe and crazy. Was great. I asked her later what happened and in a lucid moment she said “I know you would go get what you want”…

    Cats are not dogs, right? Or as some wizard over at CH said “imagine you only got a hard on if someone was mean to you”…

    Cat string theory for the win!

    https://media.giphy.com/media/ylyUQlHus5xcKTcYGk/giphy.gif

  70. @Sentient, the other day after my wife did some exercise tape, she said, “Yuck, I’m so sweaty.” I said, “So, your tits are real sweaty then huh?” She replied in a snotty fashion, “Don’t worry about my tits.” Thinking of all that I’ve learned from you and others, I nonchalantly said, “Okay, I’ll worry about another woman’s tits then.” No way would I have ever said that pre-red-pill. But now that shit is like an involuntary response to these types of shit tests. That night she complained that I had planned just to go to bed early. lol. Bitches be predictable and crazy.

  71. @Dutchman

    “when she DOES approach you, sex her up good…bc THAT should be desire sex…”

    i know this is focused on the “sex” angle (and that’s important and all…lol), but i just realized it might not be clear WHY you want to wait…, so i wanted to point this out:

    THIS (her coming to YOU…for sex…) is when she FINALLY accepts your frame… and agrees to ‘submit’… (it really is THAT important…)

    until this point it’s all just her hindbrain thinking about it/considering it…THAT’s why you hold out…for the underlying dynamic to play out…to get her to ‘chase’ YOU…and it needs to be ‘physical’ chasing…not just verbal…

    so, be ready for the last minute shit test (in bed)… she’ll likely SAY something like ‘ok, come here…’, etc… just DON”T……hold out for her to TOUCH you first…(primate non-verbal stuff = invitation for sex…)…THEN, rock her world…lol…not kidding…

    @Sentient

    ““OC… how much do you think she weighs?” or “She looks like she has been dieting” or something like that will kick the hamster right in the ass hard…”

    that’s probably better than what i recommended bc it’s more subtle = more ambiguity = more hamster food…lol…

    @Newlyaloof

    props on the turnaround…

    good luck all!

  72. @HABD, again, my situ may not work and the marriage may blow up, but at least I know I’m applying game correctly when one of my buddies said to me lately, “Yeah man, I was talking to your brother the other day and we think you’re getting some action on the side or something. You’ve changed man.” lol. Change your frame, and people’s perception of you changes for the better.

  73. @all

    first, i just want to say that sometimes, having solid rules about social circle shit is gay. the main rule being ‘don’t shit where you eat.’

    i have a hot secretary, and i mean, it’s just retarded.
    we’re out a work function and like, she asks what drink im getting, and i order the simplest, stupidest drink — jack and diet. she acts like it’s the best thing since sliced bread. that’s all she drinks when she goes out now (according to her).
    constantly asking me for ‘ideas about’ where she should get lunch…

    then there’s the chick at the gym…
    noticed me on the phone outside, asked ‘so were you doing business?’ like 10 mins later
    talks about how she listened to a playlist that i would like

    fff

    https://media.giphy.com/media/Qirsfuy8ZwxG/giphy.gif

    such a mindfuck. like it’s a good decision to hold back on these, but at the same time, i feel like it makes me weaker, because i have to hold back.

    im thankful tho that i have enough abundance to hold back, because two years ago i would have just wrecked all of these situs.

  74. @Scray

    “such a mindfuck. like it’s a good decision to hold back on these, but at the same time, i feel like it makes me weaker, because i have to hold back.”

    A good decision to who? If it is to you, fine. Enjoy the pain. If not?

    Follow the Platinum Rule – do exactly what you want to whenever you want to – and you will always be happy.

    Now it’s not easy to follow, and it doesn’t mean instant gratification. But in all things be working towards it, and enjoy the journey as well as the destination.

  75. @sentient

    “A good decision to who? If it is to you, fine”

    it isn’t to me. i’ve had shit blow up before and it’s def not a good fallout.

    it’s sort of like eating pizza. sure, eating an entire pizza is probably awesome for you in the moment…but it makes you a fat fuck.

    but ya who knows what the future holds. id rather not, tho.

  76. @scray

    How to you keep these situations from blowing up WITHOUT fucking them? This kind of stuff has happened to me in the past and the girls have ended up resenting me for not making a move…

  77. @Scray

    “it’s sort of like eating pizza. sure, eating an entire pizza is probably awesome for you in the moment…but it makes you a fat fuck.””

    True… and following the Platinum Rule, working toward what you really want – if it was pizza – might look like taking up cycling or something so you could eat 3,000 calories and not think about it.

    This is what I mean. In your case, if you really wanted these girls, you arrange things so you can. The Platinum rule is both freeing and self reinforcing… and scary.

  78. @Sentient

    ” In your case, if you really wanted these girls, ”

    ya, if i wanted them enough to outweigh the risk of shit going south and the effort required to minimize that risk, sure.

    but that’d be like, if somehow i thought they were ‘the one’ or some other gay shit.

    the fundamental truth is that the list of girls who are worth that is very, very short….and may not exist at all.

    for now, it just feels like im greedy and im in the middle of a golden age where i’m slaying chicks left and right, so of course why not some more?

    so FOR NOW it doesn’t seem worth it.

  79. @ having a bad day February 3rd, 2016 at 2:47 pm

    Hey, still posting on this comments section, so as not to distract from the newe,r different essay.

    Great job in your comments here. I was worried that Dutch takes it too fast before he has his frame set with congruence and looks like he is trying too hard. She isn’t stupid and the “fake” alpha vibe that the wife “feels” is really ammunition for her to keep holding frame.

    And I get the idea that your previous discussions were with the caveat that you went full PUA from the start. I think Dutch doesn’t have the resources for this at this point in time. I didn’t a couple years ago. And I had too much downside to going full alpha at the time even if I had the skills.

    Everything you have said and the subsequent comments has been my experience. The take-aways and the lathering her up and turning down sex has worked very well for me. The trick is to avoid one-itis, having her come to you but in a skilled masterful fashion.

    And the latest comments by Dutch seem to be settling in and I fully expect that he can make it through triage. And yes Dutch, it is OK to have failed the shit test a couple days or a day ago, that stuff happens, but at least your are trying. And I still submit that “extinction bursts” will happen. As reflected by this that having a bad day expressed:

    this is all non-verbal, but WILL draw a massive onslaught of shit tests…lol…bc it’s a new dynamic that is being introduced to the relationship…and so, will upset the balance of power…(which is what you want, so YOU can get hand…)

    But of course this is just semantic in description. The prescription is the same.

    This dynamic is what I have pointed out (this is perhaps the fifth time I’ve pointed this Illimitable Man Maxim #24 originally pointed out in his Fifty Shades of Red:

    IM MAXIM #24: “As her control increases, her attraction and respect decreases. As her control decreases, her attraction and respect increases. If a woman is with a submissive man trying to become dominant, she will utterly oppose him. She has accepted he is submissive and so she revels in the power her control gives her. If he becomes dominant, she loses the power and resources her monopoly granted her. And she will never forget his old ways, she will never really believe he is a worthy leader.”

    The bottom line here is to expect this behavior, but keep developing more mastery to the point that you are a worthy leader. This takes skills. Game skills. So keep improving those skills.

    And Dutch, as you get better, you need to really concentrate on Ovulation Game. I don’t think you mentioned if she is on the pill yet here. It doesn’t matter, but the pill blunts, but does not eliminate the ovulatory window of heightened potential for her wanting sex. I still see she is comfort testing at times and this is likely during her luteal phase. Without leaning in to her, I still recommend not being as much as a game asshole during these times. She’s begging for comfort during the non ovulatory phase and you will resent passing comfort tests when you are not getting sex.

    With the progress Dutch makes there will be higher highs, but there will be lower lows, but the slope of progress will be upward. So don’t get discouraged by the lower lows, they will come.

    And with all the suggestions, you have to calibrate them and adjust them to your personality and skills. It is the concepts that are important. If I were to get happy and dance around to Pharrell, it would not be congruent, but the concept to be happy and go along willingly with a good mood is important. It is adding value.

    And definitely be assertive, but not in a beta way. Always be relaxed. Never look like you are frustrated, sexually or otherwise. Talk slowly and use fewer words. Don’t be afraid to, in a relaxed fashion, tell her in an amused fashion, that her comment was not acceptable, get up, walk out and go away. (Sometimes, she just needs to be told No! by your actions, not your words.)

    Change up your routine of taking care of the kids, what time you go to work, what you do when you come home. Get up earlier from bed if you can manage it if you can. Go take a walk around the neighborhood on occasion, by yourself.

    Sorry for saying this rambling stuff in three times the words it could have been said. My fingers need exercise. But I’m really enthused that all the suggestions are gold for Dutchman and they have been in my experience to be right on track, thanks guys for reinforcing the concepts. PUA game is fungible for dead bedroom married man game, it just needs to be calibrated until old ruts are smoothed out and mastery takes over with a learning curve.

  80. @SJF

    “Great job in your comments here. I was worried that Dutch takes it too fast before he has his frame set with congruence and looks like he is trying too hard. She isn’t stupid and the “fake” alpha vibe that the wife “feels” is really ammunition for her to keep holding frame.”

    YaReally had a comment about how she will shit test even more if she can’t figure out if you’re beta than if she’s sure you’re beta. I think this is actually where I’ve been with her for YEARS, but it’s intensified lately as I’ve turned up the alpha.

    “Everything you have said and the subsequent comments has been my experience. The take-aways and the lathering her up and turning down sex has worked very well for me. The trick is to avoid one-itis, having her come to you but in a skilled masterful fashion.

    And the latest comments by Dutch seem to be settling in and I fully expect that he can make it through triage. And yes Dutch, it is OK to have failed the shit test a couple days or a day ago, that stuff happens, but at least your are trying. And I still submit that “extinction bursts” will happen. As reflected by this that having a bad day expressed:”

    I’m definitely having to fight the oneitis. My brain is so used to it. She’s in the midst of a two day long extinction burst right now after I completely dismissed her silly complaint that I was talking to our son. She’s giving me the “cold shoulder” to which I’m showing indifference as best I can.

    “And Dutch, as you get better, you need to really concentrate on Ovulation Game. I don’t think you mentioned if she is on the pill yet here. It doesn’t matter, but the pill blunts, but does not eliminate the ovulatory window of heightened potential for her wanting sex. I still see she is comfort testing at times and this is likely during her luteal phase. Without leaning in to her, I still recommend not being as much as a game asshole during these times. She’s begging for comfort during the non ovulatory phase and you will resent passing comfort tests when you are not getting sex.”

    I’ve been timing her cycle for a while, and I do indeed try to turn up the asshole during ovulation and turn it down later on. I actually experimented a bit with turning up the comfort shit DURING ovulation and she reacted as exactly as Rollo and others have said she would lol. It was like I couldn’t have been more irritating to her.

    Anyway, thanks for all of your advice dude. I really appreciate being in the company (even if it is online!) of men who want to help.

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