Ovulation & Dread

ovulation_dread

I had an interesting study brought to my attention recently (ht/ Robert Burriss) and I thought I’d get back to a nuts and bolts post with something useful I found in it.

Women Selectively Guard Their Desirable Mates From Ovulating Women.

As you might expect, much of the findings in this study reinforce many Red Pill principles founded in evo-psych, but there are a few new angles to consider here. Before I start to riff on this study, bear in mind that the concept of female mate guarding behavior centers on what the researchers define as ‘desirable mates’ to women. This subjective assessment of desirability will play into all this analysis.

For women, forming close, cooperative relationships with other women at once poses important opportunities and possible threats-including mate retention. To maximize the benefits and minimize the costs of same-sex social relationships, we propose that women’s mate guarding is functionally flexible and that women are sensitive to both interpersonal and contextual cues indicating whether other women might be likely and effective mate poachers. Here, we assess one such cue: other women’s fertility. Because ovulating (i.e., high-fertility) women are both more attractive to men and also more attracted to (desirable) men, ovulating women may be perceived to pose heightened threats to other women’s romantic relationships. Across 4 experiments, partnered women were exposed to photographs of other women taken during either their ovulatory or nonovulatory menstrual-cycle phases, and consistently reported intentions to socially avoid ovulating (but not nonovulating) women-but only when their own partners were highly desirable. Exposure to ovulating women also increased women’s sexual desires for their (highly desirable) partners. These findings suggest that women can be sensitive to subtle cues of other women’s fertility and respond (e.g., via social exclusion, enhanced sexual attention to own mate) in ways that may facilitate their mate retention goals while not thwarting their affiliative goals.

Right from the start here we have two Red Pill foundations confirmed; the influence that perceptual SMV plays in women’s sense of passive Dread and the fundamental influence that menstruation dictates to sexual arousal and concurrent motivations for sex appeal during women’s ovulation phase.

I’ve previously gone into the dynamics that play out between men and women with regard to perceived SMV of a partner versus the other partner’s self-perception of their own SMV and how this determines secure vs. insecure attachment. This post was more of an outline of results of SMV imbalance rather that the motivations for the characteristics of those personal attachments. This study illustrates these underlying motivators very well.

Anyone who’s heard my Man in Demand talk on Hypergamy understands the (menstrual cycle) biological root for women’s personal and sociological behavior, and this study provides yet another confirmation of it. I’ve also written in the past about men’s propensity for mate guarding and the behavioral cues women, both subtly and not so subtly, display that prompts them to mate guarding. However, I’ve yet to explore women’s mate guarding behaviors.

I’m bringing up the SMV ratios and Mate Guarding posts here because it’s important to bear in mind the subjectivity that perceived SMV plays in regard to motivating mate guarding. Depending on that balance (or imbalance) one partner will be more motivated to mate guard than the other. Which of course then brings us back to the Cardinal Rule of Relationships. Mate guarding impulse is contextual to the comparative value of both individuals and the value of others in their social environment (potential sexual competitors).

Thus, it is a significant challenge for women when other women attempt to poach their partners. For instance, over 50% of women admit to attempting to poach another woman’s partner, and over 80% of men admit to having been the object of another woman’s poaching—with about half of men admitting to “going along” with the poaching attempt (e.g., Schmitt et al., 2004; Schmitt & Buss, 2001). Women have good reason, then, to mate guard.

I’m going to encourage readers to take the time to, at the very least, read the introduction, premise and results of this comprehensive study. Naturally there will be incredulous women who will insist that men tend to overestimate the displayed sexual interests of women towards them. This is a common social convention that serves a very specific purpose for women; plausible deniability.

If the common group-think is that men are egotistical, think they’re “all that” and stupidly believe they’re seeing sexual cues from women because “that’s just how men are”, then we have a pre-established condition in which women can believably deny interest. Thus, should a man not find a woman attractive, or opt for another, this then serves as a rejection buffer as well as a precondition for her own rejection of a man should he make an approach and not be found attractive.

The Schmitt & Buss studies account for this, but even if they didn’t there would still need to be a functional reason for women’s mate guarding behavior. That reason puts the lie to the social convention of women presuming men aren’t as perceptive of their sexual cues as they’d like to believe.

[…] whereas men have at times physically isolated and sequestered their female

partners to restrict other men’s access to them (e.g., in harems), women may analogously socially isolate their partners from potential poachers—keeping them apart so as to preclude potentially costly competition for their romantic partners.

The usefulness of this strategy depends on women being able to identify those who might be likely and effective mate poachers, and then excluding them (but not others) from their social circles. If a woman indiscriminately distances herself and her partner from potential poachers (i.e., all other women), she is assured of his fidelity but at the cost of eliminating her access to the numerous benefits of female–female friendships.

Spoiler alert: The study confirms that women will covertly exclude themselves and their lover’s company from women who A.) outclass them in comparative SMV (hotter women than they perceive themselves to be) and B.) happen to be in the proliferative phase of ovulation.

This indicates that not only are women subconsciously (if not consciously) aware of intrasexual rivals ovulatory states – as evidenced by dress, ornamentation, vocal intonation, scent, sexual proceptivity, etc. – but they are aware enough to orchestrate covert methods to protect their sexual investments in a ‘high value’ male while ensuring future intrasexual friendships.

That may seem like an overly scientific way of saying women watch out for other women slutting it up, but the subcommunications of ovulation are so subtle that women’s subconscious, peripheral awareness of those cues evolved for a sensitivity that goes beyond the obvious slut. That’s how important retaining a better-than-self SMV optimal mating choice is to women in an evolutionary scope. That sensitivity is part of women’s psychological firmware.

[…]In addition, if a woman were to consistently and indiscriminately exclude other women from her own and, by extension, her partner’s social circle, she might gain a reputation for being non-communal and non-nurturing, and thus, for being an undesirable friend. This might not only thwart her ability to form future friendships with other women, but might also lead her partner to perceive her as highly difficult, uncooperative, controlling, and non-trusting.

Thus, on one hand, the costs of indiscriminately avoiding other women are high because women reap important benefits from making new same-sex friends, On the other hand, women can and do mate poach with frequency, and those women deeply embedded in one’s social circle may have increased access, motivation, and ability to poach successfully.

There’s a few things to unpack here before we can make this information Red Pill / Game applicable. The most important metric that female mate guarding indicates is her genuine assessment of a man’s SMV and how valuable his participation and investment in their LTR (or even STR sexual value) is to her.

I’ve seen this mate guarding play out in my own relationships before, both as a Red Pill husband who happens to work with beautiful women in the liquor industry and prior to my Red Pill awareness of it in my libertine 20s. Back then it was easy to pass off as ‘bitches be crazy’ when a girlfriend or a short term sex partner “just got jealous”. But in hindsight the timing of those fits of jealousy seemed a bit to regular.

I’m going to suggest that developing an awareness of a woman’s bouts of jealousy or her subtle timing in wanting to spend time alone with you, or her being more sexually proceptive (she wants to fuck more) with you at times you may think odd. These are Alpha or Beta TellsA woman’s preoccupation with guarding you from other women is a prime indicator of your SMV worth to her. It stands to reason that only ‘desirable’ men deserve the effort of her mate guarding.

This is an important Red Pill sensitivity to have as it also allows you to determine a woman’s unspoken understanding of where she and you stand in relative SMV comparison. As I was saying in the introduction here, that ‘desirability’, that SMV ratio, that Alpha impression that makes you worth mate guarding is subjective to what a woman’s self-perceived SMV is in respect to your own. When we interact with women in the long term it’s very easy for men to lose sight of this balance and think that their frumpy wife is the best they can do. There is a definitive psychological game that women of low SMV will play with men they know are of higher value – they will continually devalue that man as a form of mate guarding.

That devaluation may take the form of browbeating, nagging or accusing him of being attracted to other women in an effort to get her higher value LTR man to self-limit his being poached by endlessly qualifying himself to his low SMV wife/girlfriend. It’s far easier, and far lower an investment of resources if a low SMV woman can convince her higher SMV man to mate guard himself.

Just as an aside here, there may be a few readers who’ll think women will rationally consider that their long term provisioning is virtually assured in a feminine-primary social order. Alimony, child support or pro-female government will assure her and her offspring a baseline of security, so why mate guard any man?

The answer of course is that women’s psychological firm ware didn’t evolve to acknowledge these considerations. Once again T-Rex doesn’t want to be fed, he wants to hunt. So even with the logical consideration that provisioning is assured women’s limbic (particularly on an Alpha Fucks short term breeding assurance) still wants those environmental and behavioral cues that indicate they have that security.

Passive Dread

So with all of this to digest how do we put this knowledge of women’s limbic desire for ensuring a mate’s exclusive sex and provisioning to use for us?

The obvious answer is in the title of this post – developing that awareness of your SMV worth to a woman is a good starting point from which you can subtly employ a passive form of Dread.

I’ve gotten a lot of grief for just my acknowledging Dread, much less using it beneficially for both a man and whatever woman he chooses (long or short term). It’s always about how horribly manipulative it is, or it’s just an unsustainable game of brinksmanship between a couple that destroys trust. But what these (usually female) critics never recognize is that Dread is already an integral part of every relationship by order of degree.

The fact that both male and female mate guarding behaviors are evidential facts of both sex’s hindbrain function should be proof enough that Dread, the concern of loss of investment, and the subconscious, comparative evaluation of SMV is something that’s always an operative. It’s inherent to our conditions as evolved human beings.

My advice in this instance is for men to become sensitive to the indicators of that ovulatory mate guarding dread and use that insecurity to promote a better, genuine desire in that woman. Suggesting this will seem counterintuitive to a Blue Pill mindset. The conditioned response will be to allay that woman’s fears (the ones she’s subconsciously aware of but will hate you for making her acknowledge) and provide her with comfort and familiarity.

But comfort and familiarity are anti-seductive and kill the genuine desire, the genuine need to fuck you in order to keep you and show her appreciation for your higher SMV. Why does a woman compete for what she is constantly comfortably assured she already has?

The trick to employing soft or passive dread is making yourself sensitive to the opportunities to use it and then gently provoke it in as covert and indirect a way as possible. One of the better ideas the early PUAs had was mastering the art of the Neg, or the backhanded compliment. The idea was to casually knock a woman’s self-image down to a manageable degree in order to get her to qualify herself the the PUA. Passive dread operates on a similar principle.

You need to see the opportunities for its use, and women’s propensity for mate guarding men they find ‘desirable’ is a reasonably predictable opportunity. See those chances for other women’s casual flirtations with you, look for those unsolicited opportunities for easy social proof, and don’t dissuade your woman’s initial mate guarding response. Casually push back on the mate guarding impulse, don’t jump to the reassurances of your undying love and interest.

See that opportunity for what it is – a chance to restate whose Frame she’s chosen to be a part of. She wants to merit your value. Take that effort away from her and you become valueless to her.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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scray
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@habd nice posting! @andy yes. but that’s just because you have a TON of self-limiting beliefs. AND THAT’S OK. we all do. i mean think about it, from about 5 y/o to AT LEAST 18 (but a lot of us have received even more education), you sit in a room and are indoctrinated. plus you have the media telling you who can say and do what. i mean, no one is going to emerge from that without some self-limiting beliefs. in one of my FRs, i actually talked about discovering the power of going 90. it was around the time… Read more »

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Well I failed a shit test yesterday. She called me at work and asked me to go buy some moderately expensive thing on the way home that we could have done without. Unfortunately, I just reflexively said yes and it didn’t even really occur to me that “oh hey, this is a shit test dumbass” until I already paid for it. I thought about taking it back and just telling her “I decided it wasn’t a good idea to get that” but I figured that would come across as indecisive or butthurt.

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@culum

“IT DOESN’T MATTER IF EVO-PSYCH IS SCIENTIFICALLY ACCURATE OR NOT.
All it matters is whether that model is useful in your day to day interactions, not whether it will pass peer-reviewed study.”

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YaReally
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Dat pagebreak timing errrytime lol Don’t want Sun Wukong to miss his YaReally bitchslap so:

http://therationalmale.com/2016/01/25/ovulation-dread/comment-page-7/#comment-138343

scribblerg
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@Ya – I’d laugh at you and ask you to sell me a pencil or play liars poker with me for a 100 dollar bill while being amused by your petulance. My confidence is not an issue in these other domains, nor do I lack aggression. As you were, gentlemen.

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@Sun&All Old guys like to ramble on but try to stay awake through this. I live close to the ground and like to hold my head up high.As I get older timing is everything as there has been enough wasted time already.So I pick my jobs,the days to do them,what I eat,who I talk to,when I fish,where I fish etc.Now a bull has balls and a dick ready to go every day but the cow is only receptive twice a year,and these are the only time the bull can use his junk the rest of the time you get the… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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Hey @YaReally, if you’ve got a moment before you take off: Met a HB7.5 low-20’s girl in a bar. Her party looked familiar and she wasn’t talking to anyone so I just asked her who she was and it turns out she’s related to a lot of people who went to my church/tiny highschool growing up. We hit it off – telling travel stories, bit of kino/light innuendo, I taught her some formal dance moves just for shits and we hit the dancefloor, etc. She was just fine dancing with me but didn’t slut it up or anything – not… Read more »

scray
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@scribbler

“I’d laugh at you and ask you to sell me a pencil or play liars poker with me for a 100 dollar bill while being amused by your petulance. ”

and as soon as you do that, you lose.

at the same time, this mindset you’re adopting, if it’s going to help you pull the trigger, then fuck it, use it.

down the road you’re leaving yourself open to get amogged hardcore but you gotta start somehow.

YaReally
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@scribblerg lol if I had simply posted: “@scribblerg lol $6k at a casino isn’t much, I walked out with $10k once, casinos are the easiest game to play in…now home games are where the real skill is at” …you would have responded with a rant about how you win every home game you’ve ever played and that you would beat me in a casino etc etc. That’s all I’m saying. A guy can be very humble in one area but have an ego in another area (even if you’re good at something, developing an ego about it where you instinctively… Read more »

having a bad day
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@SJF “I thought the premise was that if you take what Dutch has to work with both his wreck of a wife and Dutch’s lack of mastery (his wreck of game), how long to turn it around. Not if someone was starting fresh on a new girl in a hotel lobby, or if Dutch automatically looked and felt like and had the skills of YaReally or Rollo. ” the premise was, and IS, Dutch’s situ exactly (same wife, his same looks, same EVERYTHING)…EXCEPT he magically develops a solid game skill set…in place of his ‘wreck of game’… then, he starts… Read more »

Dutchman
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@forge

A good frame would be “OMG if the people at church could see me now. Who would have thought I would grow up to be such a bad boy lol. They say religious kids always grow up to be wild but I never really believed it until it happened to me” to stay congruent with who she knew you as before but also congruent to who you are now/who you are striving to be.

YaReally
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@scray “at the same time, this mindset you’re adopting, if it’s going to help you pull the trigger, then fuck it, use it. ” lol ya that’s fair. I just noticed it when I was skimming and I was going to post the “eh casino poker isn’t even real poker tho” comment to show him reacting in action but I have limited time today lol I just don’t want scribblerg (or anyone) to get the impression that being humble about “oh I’m not great at pickup, I’ve escaped my ego I admit I’m not the player I used to be”… Read more »

scray
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@scribbler you eventually want to just let all of your external success — poker skills, 7 figure sales deals, your career, etc. — just speak for itself. when anyone tries to grill me about my success or notices my successes, i adopt this mindset: i’d rather be lucky than good. why? b/c it SHUTS EVERYTHING DOWN. no matter what the amog wants to say, i can just shrug and have an attitude of ‘maybe you’re right — don’t give a fuck, cause i still have the success,’ which makes him look like a crybaby and it also gives me this… Read more »

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@YaReally

“Working my ass off this month so you guys are on your own for a while.”

i’m right there with you…lol…i just keep getting sucked back in…it’s part of my spergitude…lol…

“@HABD
That expansion on the SIDS thing is an interesting angle to think about.”

ya, i didn’t know about that SIDS stuff til you brought it up. maybe you should write for a grant..and then obamacare can pay for bootcamps for new dad’s…(not really kidding…)

good luck!

newlyaloof
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@Dutchman, ” She called me at work and asked me to go buy some moderately expensive thing on the way home that we could have done without.” I’ll share something that has helped my wife understand my concerns with money and her desire to buy shit. Me to my wife: “Look babe. You’re like the human resources department. You tell me all the stuff you think you need to make the humans in our family happy, but I’m the accounting department, and the numbers don’t care about any of that. So, after crunching the numbers, the accounting department has denied… Read more »

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@scribblerg

“@Ya – I’d laugh at you and ask you to sell me a pencil or play liars poker with me for a 100 dollar bill while being amused by your petulance. My confidence is not an issue in these other domains, nor do I lack aggression. As you were, gentlemen.”

this is defensive and reacting to YaReally’s frame = beta…your confidence notwithstanding…so, he wins the AMOG framing…

do you see why?…

good luck!

Sun Wukong
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@YaReally Aye, I get it. I’m frustrated with me as well. I will say it’s not for lack of frequency out; all my buddies around here are like “Dude, you’re out all the time now” since I try to make sure to be out and meeting people 3-4 nights a week 3-6 hours each of those nights (I shut bars down more frequently than I should on work nights) and work out of a Starbucks or something at least a couple days a week. I’m still trying though. Frustrated but trying. The other night I was out and my education… Read more »

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@scray

“when anyone tries to grill me about my success or notices my successes, i adopt this mindset: i’d rather be lucky than good. ”

that’s good…i mean lucky!…lol

good luck!

scray
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@ya “That said, like you say if the mindset helps get him out there then fuck it.” yeah i mean, because as long as he gets out there, the field will kick it back to him. and sooner or later, after having some success with this mindset, some AMOG is gonna exploit it. and that’ll happen over and over again. @scribb one of my best friends loves to try and AMOG me. and like, if i were to say ‘ya i won x amount of money at poker the other night,’ he would probably be like ‘shutup scray, you suck… Read more »

newlyaloof
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@Scray, I remember your first CH post. You’ve traveled a long way. Props to you.

“ya that’s true, should i give the money back?” That’s a trip. I have family and friends that would do that shit and I used to get butthurt about it because of my ego with honor and pride. No longer. You’re right. It’s more fun to play this game back at them.

YaReally
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@scray “when people ask me about success i’ve had, i PURPOSEFULLY list dumb shit that makes no sense as being responsible. ” lol ya, like the “oh I’m just naturally jacked I dunno man I eat a lot of pizza maybe that helps” stuff that pisses guys off (aka gets them reacting). To relate it to poker (no-limit, I don’t have the patience for limit lol): I’d rather play a guy who’s convinced he’s really good at poker and thinks I’m an idiot, because I know HE’S not raising pre-flop holding 27o and will let me take the pot when… Read more »

Culum Struan
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@Scray – thanks a lot man. Great points all round – will particular remember to use an intermediate escalation within the bar/mini venue change to help myself a bit before getting the number.

And point taken re my buddies. They are actually cool guys who get laid fine..

@newlyaloof – LOL@HR department vs Accounting department. If I ever get married I hope I remember it..

Sun Wukong
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@YaReally “oh god, if you want dumb drunk kids you could go to VenueX on Sundays, I used to go there when I was that age” (insert rant about how now they prefer chill pubs and houseparties (where they don’t have competition, because they’re older and closer to the wall)) I’ve been talking a lot with the bartender that took my drink order while the drunk bitch was on my shoulder yelling “asshole” in my ear. Fun guy that I’ve been getting to know. He started showing me pictures of some of the chicks he’s been out with around town… Read more »

YaReally
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@Culum Don’t wanna miss leaving one for ya, you’re doing good tho and you can see your own sticking points for the most part when you do your Field Reports (funny how they become more obvious when you write it out hey). “This two-set was very interesting to me because it started off with them in “neutral but receptive”mode when we opened and then I just kept saying outrageous stuff sexually and within about 10 minutes there was clear attraction and kino from her (so I told a story I usually tell on dates about a sexual prank I played… Read more »

newlyaloof
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@YaReally, that’s money advice to Sun. “This is all gold, and important to learn. Most guys prematurely eject.” Just had that happen while walking to lunch. Go out my building, turn left and see hot 8.5 with little dog both about 50 feet away looking in my direction as if they know me or have been looking for me expectantly Hmm, I wonder. I see this in a split second look their way before my eyes focus on other objects. I say to myself, “Shit, that girl is hot. She has a dog. You have to open her.” I reach… Read more »

scribblerg
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Weird, pseudo-FR (but very telling): As some may recall, I bailed on my “semi-pro” connections that i was soft sugaring, for my own purposes. As I regained my dignity and self-love, that simply was not satisfying for me any longer. In part it was due to the on and off desire, and also that it was on their terms. They were “the prize”, even if I could reframe in the moment at times. I hard nexted them both, and a third, who had drifted anyway sensed my changes and opted out herself. No more “mentoring” and emotional tamponing for me.… Read more »

YaReally
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@Sun Wukong @Culum You both get the same Tyler clip but with a focus on different parts lol: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3AYFEBQ8to&t=28m Culum start at 28:00…you don’t have to necessarily pull TROLLS but what he’s talking about with NORMALIZING leading girls around and extracting them and getting used to that process should be a goal. Oldschool cocky Tyler used to say “you should be able to get people to go for food after the bar, that’s not even pickup that’s just having basic social skills” Sun Wukong start at 28:00 as well because the stuff about making girls you don’t manage to fuck… Read more »

kfg
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@Forge: ” . . . hunt squirrel like kfg . . .”

Take out and eat the competition first.

Normally I advise against eating predators, but when times get hard you gotta do what ya gotta do, and you don’t want the house cats getting the squirrels before you do.

Plus you get the best banjo/shamisen heads out of the deal.

YaReally
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@scribblerg “Nothing got “resolved”, rather I saw the hindbrain was screaming for alpha and the calmer I was and the more resistant I was to her framing, the more she calmed down.” Beautiful. Your Field Report just completely justified me writing that “how to handle crazy bitches” explanation that I almost didn’t write because I was like “fuck, guys might interpret this as me encouraging them to go spend time around crazy bitches and that guy might think I’m saying he should stay in his marriage to his psycho” But this is exactly what I was trying to explain. Guys… Read more »

Culum Struan
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Thanks YaReally. I’ll try that for sure. I know numbers aren’t a big deal – it’s only a big deal right now because I’m not getting them! But yeah, even after I get them I’ll try to keep going forward to isolation. Or at least I will when I get back to another “Blitz Week” in a few weeks because I’m also rammed into Work Mode for now.. PS – Submissive sexual texting girl flaked out – I gave her like one more task to do after your advice a couple weeks ago, which she ignored, then I tried texting… Read more »

YaReally
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@Culum “Submissive sexual texting girl flaked out – I gave her like one more task to do after your advice a couple weeks ago, which she ignored, then I tried texting one more time: no reply. Oh well..iflaking’s the name of the game with online girls..” This is why I say go for the pulls and face to face progress like leading them around the room and into isolation and out the door and to food etc. cause even when you do get numbers, in 2016 a ton of them will flake and then you’ll be like “fuck this is… Read more »

Bromeo
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When Rollo stops replying in thread, you know there’s a fire topic about to drop on the main page lol

stuffinbox
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Where is my cat and who the fuck is playing that godamn banjo

Jeremy
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I wanted to reply re: http://anjaliramkissoon.org/

lol, that woman is trash who just happens to be a resident neurologist. She got a tattoo on her right forearm in addition to a tramp stamp… TRASH. Hard to believe anyone defends her.

I also wanted to drop this vid here, which was recommended on another vid I was watching. It’s probably been posted here, but I don’t remember seeing it. I was amazed at the production value.

Sun Wukong
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@YaReally

I didn’t say I was just going to leave it at that and expect shit to roll and work for me. It was more that I’m going to see if I can as you said find out venues and maybe get him to wing with me if we get along well, which seems likely. That’s where the “We’ll see” comes from.

I don’t expect any of this shit to be passive. Being passive is what got me in to this whole mess in the first place.

Sentient
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Yareally Dutchman SJF HABD scribblerg newlyaloof “Quit waiting, start making shit happen.” this is always a good choice, for everything in life. If you need a tattoo on your wrist to inspire you, this would be a good one. “Nothing got “resolved”, rather I saw the hindbrain was screaming for alpha and the calmer I was and the more resistant I was to her framing, the more she calmed down. She just wants to be dominated and fucked. ” hehehe – notice how this dynamic is JUST as applicable to the LTR/Marriage… It’s not JUST for crazy bitches…. (or it… Read more »

scribblerg
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@Ya – And who is in who’s head now? Hmmm…

newlyaloof
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@Sentient, I know, man. I know. Probably see her again and I will open again. Game exercise. How would you reopen her?

scribblerg
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@Ya, Scray and Red – Just fucking around a bit, got the message and thanks for taking the time to lay out how being defensive is to give up frame. Message received. But also know that i’m having this massive “SHIFT” right now, to the point where I’m finding the early part of SHIFT boring and no new news. FR here at coffee shop, I aggressively opened a 22 yr old in the midst of convo with other guy and she fucking loved it. I self ejected, no time – just saw the opening and wanted to see how hard… Read more »

newlyaloof
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@Scribble, “I know kung fu!”

yeah, man!

Dutchman
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@scrib

Sounds like you’re on your way dude. It’s awesome that virtually all of the comments in the thread right now are either FRs or people with experience analyzing the FRs instead of a bunch of bitching.

Sentient
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@newlyaloof ” Probably see her again and I will open again. Game exercise. How would you reopen her?” I probably fuck around with her dog… You: Oh good still training our dog. Her. bla blah blah You: lets try this, I will take him over there and you call and see if he comes Her OK You: walk dog 15 feet away, pause and wait for her to call it, then turn around shake your head and slowly walk off. slowly walk off so she can catch up to you and when she comes close laugh and she will probably… Read more »

scribblerg
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FR: I just cold opened Eliza Dushku, up here in NH speaking for Bernie Sanders. I actually couldn’t remember her name properly and she corrected me. Her hair looked darker and I was like,’Your hair used to be darker and she corrected me. Lol, I negged automatically without even thinking. I didn’t laser (should have) but she had to go to the bathroom. I spoke with her mom until she came back from the bathroom and kept at it with her Mom. Then she turned to me, huge smile, “What’s your name?” Shook my hand warmly, asked “You’re from NY?”… Read more »

Jeremy
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Dushku is speaking for Bernie? Ugh… well, don’t need them to be smart.

Grats Scribbler

scray
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@scribbler

” I just cold opened Eliza Dushku, up here in NH”

comment image

now just

imagine

what kind of hero
you would have been, if you could have said or even HINTED at what you really wanted to do with her…

even…’man, i’ve been wanting to make out with you for years…’

you would be an instant legend.

Sun Wukong
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Sun Wukong
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@scribblerg

comment image

kfg
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kfg
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Post wall, single career girl on the beta provider hunt. Spin ‘er but don’t bin ‘er.

fleezer
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“JUST ESCALATE.” Scray -> fucking inspiring. my themes for feb are “what would the king do?” and also, “what would Scray do?” looking at the deadlift bar. it looks too heavy. “what would scray do?” fucking pick it up!! at dinner with the mrs. two 6s across the way, staring at my food. me: “you’ve never had this” 6: “no” me: “try it” 6: “no” me: “you got five seconds till the offer expires” 6: (looks at her friend. they laugh. she gets up, rips a piece off my plate, tries it. spicy as fuck) that’s spicy! me: “uh huh”… Read more »

newlyaloof
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@Sentient, I like that. I was thinking similar humor (cause that’s my style):

Me: “How’s the dog training going?”
Girl: “Oh Great, blah blah.”
Me: “Yeah, I feel I was a big part of that success. I’m like his big brother Newly Aloof practically. What’s your name btw?” And take it from there.

BUt what game has taught me most of all is that girls’ lives are so boring that saying ANYTHING is a plus. Nobody cold opens in my area. Bunch of spineless betas, so I’m feeling good for opening so effortlessly and chatting calmly with her.

newlyaloof
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@Fleezer, lol. that’s so money!

SJF
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@Softek You are the poster child for Rollo Tomassi’s First Year essays and his Iron Rules. You learned well and applied these red pill aware game tactics and where did it get you? Your first lay and a relationship with a girl for a couple months. Now you want to throw it all away. Your Frame, your MPO, your confidence, your abundance mentality. Your social proof. The fact that you need motive and opportunity to spin plates. The fact that you need congruence. Don’t throw that all away. You wrote comments to Dutch in a good frame January 30th, 2016… Read more »

SJF
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@having a bad day February 2nd, 2016 at 9:38 am @Sentient February 2nd, 2016 at 12:32 pm The vibe here is great with the last five days from you guys and YaReally and Scray. Seeing you get Scribbler up off his ass and moving is wonderfully refreshing. I don’t disagree at all with your sentiments. I am concerned that someone like Dutch or Softek are punching above their weight-class with lack of complete game skills and play with dynamite and blow up their own personal script and mission statement for themselves. We all take our own time frame to become… Read more »

SJF
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SJF Maxims

# 1 Everything Matters.

#2 Game concepts and tactics are fungible (mutually interchangeable) across all relationship platforms.

#3 Male definition of intimacy: When your woman says “Thank you for fucking me!”.

YaReally
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@Rollo lol red pill waifu shoe0nhead taking down neomasculinity with shitposting: https://twitter.com/shoe0nhead/status/637892803050270721 https://twitter.com/shoe0nhead/status/685612224417759232 https://twitter.com/aurini/status/637928909044973569 Her tooling these guys is actually a good lesson in frame/AMOG battles and how retarded over-reacting and trying to play the James Bond “take myself way too seriously” RVF thing looks ESPECIALLY when the other person is fucking with you. A girl on the internet posting misspelled tweets and “bideos” of her bunny (zero fucks given and unreactive to anything they throw at her) runs circles around these “red pill masters” lol This is what happens when you circle-jerk on a forum posting Braveheart gifs and… Read more »

Emily
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@YaReally
“When you can get out of Dallas to a better city, cool”

Better city than Dallas? YaKiddin?

Softek
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@ SJF Things kicked back up again with the girl (this has happened many times before). Great sex again, and then back to the old trying to lock me down thing. Always a mix. Usually mind blowing sex followed by some kind of sadness later about how she thinks I don’t want to be with her long term. She isn’t blowing up or anything. Just expressing that it’s causing her a lot of anxiety, she’s worried I’m going to leave her, etc. Every time I leave or she leaves. Always some expression of anxiety/insecurity, etc. The “Dynamite” part comes in… Read more »

scribblerg
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@Scray – I went to the gym, checked a venue which was dead so I came home, did some work, ate a steak and am recharged. The Bernie people are all staying over in my town, i’m putting on some fresh clothes, heading back in to town so go try and fuck her. He he. I think the makeout thing would have been a bit weird as her Mom was right there, but Mom actually gave me the unspoken thumbs up. I was dressed grossly, hadn’t showered cuz i was headed to the gym afterwards – irrelevant. I’m working on… Read more »

Emily
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Hey… don’t mind me, I was just seeing if I could post yet (apparently I can, yay!)

I know Dallas quite well so yeah. It has a pretty cool vibe.

Softek
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tl;dr: My brain is consolidating a lot of information. Reading about TRP is one thing. Experiencing it firsthand is another. Right from the start with this girl, I feel like I started “getting” what other guys here were talking about. Not everything, obviously. But little bits and pieces. Lightbulb here, lightbulb there. It’s fucking hard to confront myself too. For so many years all I imagined was just having a stable relationship. It was all I wanted. So to feel like I have that option now, but to know from TRP that it’s not that easy, is very hard to… Read more »

bookooball
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Rollo, what are your thoughts on being red pill during pregnancy? My ovulation game is tight but I decided to give her a child now the game has changed. I (and many readers) would love to hear your thoughts

SJF
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Softek February 2nd, 2016 at 6:27 pm You got a lot of questions there. Go back tomorrow and read through them and then answer them based on what you know with your fore-brain. You already know the answers (thanks to TRM), don’t let your hind and mid-brain take over. You know what you gotta do to. Just Do It. Your Purpose Must Come Before Your Relationship (Ch. 7 Deida, TWSM) Every man knows that his highest purpose in life cannot be reduced to any particular relationship. If a man prioritizes his relationship over his highest purpose, he weakens himself, dis-serves… Read more »

The Question
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@ Rollo Tomassi I saw your warnings to Roosh and the others on Twitter and wanted to comment that it says a lot – you could have just turned a blind eye to those things, but didn’t. I’ve been reading the articles from the Facebook link, and the MSM’s description of the get-togethers as “legal rape meetings” is so borderline ridiculous, the fears expressed by those posting about it so beyond inane, you almost wonder if someone intentionally wants them to think this way. Call me crazy, but it seems almost like Roosh is trying to force a confrontation of… Read more »

digireaper
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@Forge: Yeah, I have to get used to get used to the game being this slow in the beginning. I mean, so far no girl I approached in the nights I went out showed interest in me, no shit tests, nothing. Only bland 2 minute “conversations”. I definitely feel some social situations being a little bit easier though. @Culum: Thanks! I’m going through Julien’s SHIFT now, so much good stuff there, I’m going to check PIMP afterward, one thing I must do for sure is go out more days, reading your FR’s, I see that you go several days a… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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Fuckin champ Glenn!

“Of course, if I do nail a celeb, I can’t report it here guys so you’ll never know if this works out…Onward and motherfucking upwards…”

Damn it, you’re right. Best of luck anyways!

YaReally
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Shit all those shoe0nhead exchanges fucked up with WordPress auto-posting. Throw twitter dot com in front of these, the whole exchanges are necessary to appreciate them and how these guys keep throwing gayness at her as she stunts on their faces lol:

/shoe0nhead/status/637892803050270721
/shoe0nhead/status/685612224417759232
/Aurini/status/637928909044973569

Forge the Sky
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I’m gonna have to work on flash openers. As I’m getting better at seeing approach invites (and probably getting more of them as my ‘presence’ improves) I’m kicking myself like 1-2x every time I go into public. The window can be literally a fraction of a second. Was just in a grocery store. Late at night, the place is empty and the few remaining customers are all bums and 3rd-shift rejects with the haunted look of swiftly-ebbing life hanging about them. And I’m tired, a bit cranky from a long day, confident as shit and dressed to the nines from… Read more »

kfg
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@SJF: Them’s some big fuckin’ squirrels.

cheupec
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@SJF
“Tell her that you will spend 30 minutes (or some specific time) with her in absolute attention and total presence, but then you must return to carry on your mission.”

Best still, dont tell her. Just do it. It is what it is after all.

scribblerg
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@forge – Swing and a miss tonight, couldn’t find the right Bernie crowd. Didn’t get much else going, no prob. Felt like a stalker, lol. Like a hunter after prey. Flash – yep, RSD Tyler I think did something on this. You have to just approach immediately, no hesitation just launch yourself into it. I seem to have been able to just adopt that no prob. Only advice I have is that you don’t have to “look” for openings, they just present themselves and you open. As soon as the thought occurs, just go. Even if you fumble, doesn’t matter,… Read more »

SJF
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@kfg I usually like to harvest antler-less deer in the 148 to 155 lb. on the hoof range, when I’m selective. (The latter was a 6 1/2 year old doe five years ago and the former, was 15 minutes after first shooting light this year). But the 110 to 120 lb. ones will suffice if you get enough of them in one day. And have two or three wing-men as mercenaries. The early antler-less firearms season is like shooting fish in a barrel easy. I never really considered squirrel hunting or wild-turkey hunting. But do enjoy rabbit hunting with beagles… Read more »

YaReally
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@scribblerg Props on the approach but just a heads-up that you’ve been revealing an awful lot about yourself. I don’t want to recap it all but like, if you make enemies it’s not going to be real hard for them to narrow you down. There’s no need to post all these details about who the celeb is and where they are and why and you’ve shared a lot about the places you hang out and hobbies you do in public etc. Like, man, I hope you don’t have business/family/etc that relies on you not being lumped in with Roosh Julien… Read more »

YaReally
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@Rollo And of course lol: https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-53190-post-1209668.html#pid1209668 I’d like to think it’s just him being so reactive that he has to go after a girl making fun of him on the internet, but shoe0nhead has shitloads more followers than him so it’s pretty standard “punch up for exposure” e-celeb growth tactics. And she always wins these exchanges with the manly neomasculine James Bond LARPers so I hope she engages lol It’s amazing to me that anyone could see this stuff and go “I want to join that movement!” though. But I can’t deny that I’ll be on the edge of my… Read more »

The Question
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@ YaReally

I’ve touched on this before on my own site, but there’s is definitely a desire within the doom and gloom community to have The Big Crash come sooner rather than later, and my fear is they will push for something to make it happen now by escalating already heightened tensions. I get where they’re coming from, but life isn’t a video game or movie you can turn off, and if anyone thinks innocent people won’t be killed on both sides during any kind of conflict they need to brush up on their history.

Interesting times, indeed.

The Question
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@ YaReally

This is admittedly threadjacking the OT, but I wanted to add that this move by Roosh baffles me because Quintus has written about Irish guerrilla leader Michael Collins before – he knows that movements like these are easily destroyed by informants and infiltrators. It’s such a blatant move.

kfg
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“I never really considered squirrel hunting or wild-turkey hunting. ” For whatever reason turkey hunting has never appealed to me either. I rather enjoy environmental varmint hunting, particularly for invasive species, but a nature preserve down the road apiece from me is being overrun by deer who figured out that it’s a gun free zone. And the deer are destroying the habitat of the species the preserve was formed to protect. Half the board are freaking about how to get rid of the deer, the other half are freaking about how people are talking about killing Bambi’s mom. The fact… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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“Them’s some big fuckin’ squirrels.” Lol Hey YaReally, thanks for the input re: the girl from my old circles/flash approaching. I usually have some idea before I even ask but it’s a real boon to have my course of action guided by someone who’s been there. Saves me the blind alleys. I’m totally disconnected from the social circles I grew up in so there’s not too much potential drama w/ the one girl. So I think I’ll just abandon trying to get with her but meet up at some cool joint and use her as social proof. Maybe if she… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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I keep on wanting to write to @Softek but other shit keeps distracting. Sorry man, I’m done now maybe tomorrow. SJF et al have your back in a serious way already, just have a few insights wrt the dynamics going on that might help illuminate.

Sentient
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Forge Re opening, just go about your day saying Hi to as many women you come into contact with as possible. That’s it, dont save for hotties… Say hi to old ladies, fatties, married women… All of them. Dont bother worrying about pick up at all, just get used to the first 30 seconds. Hi. If they say Hi back you say something else… Nice day etc. And get 30 seconds back and forth and move on. Do this for a few weeks everyday, and watch what happens when you say it to a hottie you want. Ice cool… But… Read more »

Dutchman
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@SJF

I strongly, STRONGLY advise you to ask Rollo to remove the post with the photobucket linked picture in it. An enterprising SJW could find a ton of shit just from that one link.

scribblerg
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@Ya – Roger on way too much identifying info. Used to be more vigilant, have been starting to feel like this is my gang’s clubhouse – and it ain’t.

@All – Those of you who know my name, can you please refrain from using it in comments anymore? Can’t erase the past but can go darker going forward…And remember, Ya’s cautions apply to us all – we aren’t women, we can lose our jobs/livelihood for speaking our minds…

Sentient
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@newlyaloof “@Sentient, I like that. I was thinking similar humor (cause that’s my style): Me: “How’s the dog training going?” Girl: “Oh Great, blah blah.” Me: “Yeah, I feel I was a big part of that success. I’m like his big brother practically. What’s your name btw?” And take it from there.” Newly – something to think about. Can you spot the difference between my suggestion and yours? Yours is fine, it’s an open! But why settle for fine? It’s not in the verbal as much… though there is a bit that is more significant… See amplification here [in brackets]… Read more »

Amit
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Amit
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Meanwhile…

redlight
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redlight
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Apologies for the delay on the next post, but I’m waiting to see how certain events play out before I decide which to post.

if Denver wins it will be a post on old man game

newlyaloof
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@Sentient, I NOW see how much more “optimized” your approach is. My version has me standing there like a stand-up comic who will need more material right after the first salvo.

That’s why having a forum like this is so damn valuable. Thanks man.

Forge the Sky
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@ScribblerG Sure thing, man. I’m not nearly as hardcore as YaReally wrt anonymity. I happen to not be overly vulnerable to SJW activity, so that’s part of it. If I got hit that way it would be just a temporary recalibration. And I could well come out the other side advantageously – SJW’s don’t understand power games well typically. But more than that, I just refuse to have the fabric of my life, my personality, and my thoughts censored. I’m not going to diminish the emotive and descriptive power of what I write here, the connection with my experience that… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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Also to add,

I don’t post with this identity anywhere but on the androsphere. Or anywhere on the androsphere that’s inflammatory rather than serious discussion.

Matt Forney got doxxed, gee I wonder why? Mike Cernovitch just puts himself out there as bait. That dude who got doxxed on trp Reddit recently was trolling a SJW friendly site basically. This shit ain’t hard to avoid.

SJF
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Thanks guys.

I can understand why SJF’s comments on monogamous married man game with special compassion for the welfare of children would piss of SJW’s. (Well the red-pill game part of it anyway.)

Maybe I shouldn’t lean out so close to my edge.

(sarcasm not meant to be dismissive of your judicious comments)

Dutchman
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@SJF You probably have the least to worry about as far as the CONTENT of your posts but the mere fact that you are HERE would make you a target. SJWs don’t just want to burn down people like Roosh who are out there provoking them, they want to burn down everyone even tangentially associated with them for DARING to stomach the EXISTENCE of the manosphere or whatever. Rollo himself takes goes to great lengths to avoid politics, race, religion, etc because he’s not writing this blog to shit on people he doesn’t like, but to help men better themselves.… Read more »

SJF
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Well understood. You can stop talking about it now. Unless you want to pass the ammunition around.

scribblerg
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@Forge – Re: your last comment. That would argue for managing your state more effectively, yes? I’ve taken to do a few minutes journaling and visualizing my day every morning recently. Create a vision for the day, just a few things I want to get done, have happen, not just about productivity but also eating healthy and hanging with friends etc.. Positive and affirming. Sounds squishy but really helping me to get my day of to a positive, calm start. For me, anxiety is my soul crusher so it’s especially important for me.

Dutchman
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Just wanted to explain the dynamic for lurkers and posterity.

Forge the Sky
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“You probably have the least to worry about as far as the CONTENT of your posts but the mere fact that you are HERE would make you a target. SJWs don’t just want to burn down people like Roosh who are out there provoking them, they want to burn down everyone even tangentially associated with them for DARING to stomach the EXISTENCE of the manosphere or whatever.” I think that this broad-spectrum sorta purge can happen but is very unlikely at this stage. Think about the fundamental motivations behind SJW activity. Why do they do what they do? Because of… Read more »

Sentient
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@digireaper

Your post about the hookers opening you in the club reminded me of a situation I shared a few years ago… use them for preselection and self amusement… most girls will not recognize them as hookers, and nearly all guys wont.

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2014/12/27/the-era-of-the-apex-alpha/#comment-639052

enjoy!

redlight
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since we are reduced to scavenging for food, I mean posts, here’s a letter in today’s Dear Abby (I took out some filler): DEAR ABBY: My girlfriend of two years was offered the opportunity to travel to Nepal. Leading up to the trip I tried not to be jealous, but I did say some childish things. However I told her she should enjoy herself. She emailed me a couple of nights ago about how she and two of her male guides went to a bar together where she got drunk. They plan on going to the club again later during… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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@Scribblerg “That would argue for managing your state more effectively, yes? I’ve taken to do a few minutes journaling and visualizing my day every morning recently. Create a vision for the day, just a few things I want to get done, have happen, not just about productivity but also eating healthy and hanging with friends etc.. “ Yeah, I need to be more mindful and less chaotic about things. My energy goes in all sorts of random directions, some productive some not so much. I never seem to be able to get in a groove where I get up at… Read more »

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